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Ground Rules for the Windows vs. Mac War
FreshlyShornBalls writes "The New York Times is running a story that I think needs to be seen by everyone on both sides of the on-going Macintosh vs. Windows debate (i.e. just about everyone who posts on Slashdot): Some ground rules for the Windows vs. Mac War." From the article: "Last week, I wrote about some of the changes Microsoft has in store for the next version of Windows, which is slated for the end of 2006. Interestingly, very few of you responded to that column, probably because so much may change in the next 19 months. But a few of you fired off diatribes about how I'm either a Microsoft 'shill' or an Apple 'apologist' (or maybe it was the other way around). It's not just me, either; it's a running sardonic joke among tech columnists that you can't even USE the word 'Apple' or 'Microsoft' without getting hate mail from somebody or other."
From bugmenot.com, u/p: yourmom915/yourmomshouse
I'll flame you into extinction for not mentioning Linux!
And what about my BSD brehthren?
I think we've been far to lax for some time... time to take up arms.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
I love getting my news from Freshly Shorn Balls. In this age of no media credibility (Newsweek, NYT, I'm looking at you), Freshly Shorn Balls are clearly the answer. :)
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
"...in a knife fight?"
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
But a few of you fired off diatribes about how I'm either a Microsoft 'shill' or an Apple 'apologist'
Coming from an admitted Gnu/Linux zealot; Can't he be both?
19 Month is a lifetime is IT, so STFU
Help fight continental drift.
It's not just me, either; it's a running sardonic joke among tech columnists that you can't even USE the word 'Apple' or 'Microsoft' without getting hate mail from somebody or other."
/., its been a constant that I can always count on; rabid fans of both spouting broken record thoughts about how poor the other is.
I certainly hope no one thinks it will be any different here. In my several years reading
Seems to me both have their uses, both have their faults.
It's not just me, either; it's a running sardonic joke among tech column readers that the writers just cut-n-paste press releases.
I don't know what this guy's on, but Thomas the Tank Engine rules.
from the users-need-to-think-before-they-pick-names dept.
How excellent.
"No one likes working in a hamster wheel, and your shop smells of cedar shavings from here." - TaleSpinner
I've read this article.
Its obvious, vacuous dribble.
I condemn it.
Move along, Move along
in the long run, we're all dead anyway.
Apple Zealots probably helped keep apple afloat during the difficult times before Steve Jobs came back, but they really rub people the wrong way.
I remember one fat Mac zealot in a Computer Engineering class smugly telling me that Intel made it impossible for their chips to do multimedia and floating point mat "at the same time". Technically, you couldn't run MMX instructions and Floating instructions at the same time, because they used the same registers, and it took (I believe) 150 clock cycles to switch modes. Definitely not something a user would notice. This kid seemed to think it was now impossible to play a video and do any kind of mathematics.
These shrill, obnoxious people, I think, turned a lot of people against the Mac, because, as a PC user the basic idea is that PC users are idiots, and buying a Mac is like validating all that BS.
And the whole "lets worship a corporation as a god, who can do no wrong" is pretty obnoxious these days as well.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Last week, I wrote about some of the changes Microsoft has in store for the next version of Windows, which is slated for the end of 2006. Interestingly, very few of you responded to that column, probably because so much may change in the next 19 months.
But a few of you fired off diatribes about how I'm either a Microsoft "shill" or an Apple "apologist" (or maybe it was the other way around). It's not just me, either; it's a running sardonic joke among tech columnists that you can't even USE the word "Apple" or "Microsoft" without getting hate mail from somebody or other.
It's kind of amazing that various extremists could find the same column too pro-Microsoft AND too pro-Apple. But hey--that's the nature of ideological soldiers, whether they're in the conservative-liberal war, the evolutionist-creationist war or the Hummer-Prius war.
The Mac-Windows war, though, is especially pointless, protracted, and winnerless. There will always be people on each side who are every bit as rabid and un-convincible as those in any other religious war.
Still, I'd like to suggest, as a starting point of civility, a few pointers for participants in the O.S. war. Consider it one man's version of, "Can't we all just get along?"
1. Hate something for its failings, not for its success.
It's totally fine to criticize something because of its flaws--to hate Windows because it's bloated and cryptic, for example, or the iPod because it's too easily scratched. But condemning something just because it's the dominant product is just sour grapes. Arguments along the lines of "I hate Bill Gates because he's rich" or "I hate the iPod because everyone has one" add nothing to the dialogue.
2. No condemning something until you've tried it.
If everyone abided by this idea, about 95 percent of all the Windows-Macintosh diatribes would evaporate overnight. But here it is: If you haven't tried something, then you really have no basis to comment.
3. Execution matters.
I'm so tired of reading discussions like this: Person A: "I love Mac OS X Tiger! That Spotlight thing is so cool: press a keystroke, type a few letters, and get an instantaneous listing every file, folder and program containing that text."
Person B: "You pathetic loser! It's called hard-drive indexing, and Windows XP has had it from Day One." Of course, the truth is that Windows Indexing Service is to Spotlight as Thomas the Tank Engine is to a bullet train. In Indexing Service, you can't search with a single keystroke, the speed is nothing like Spotlight's, you can't search for metadata (115 kinds of secondary information, like music genre, Photoshop layer names, camera settings in digital photos, etc.), the index isn't updated in real time as you create or delete documents, and so on.
It goes the other way, too. "I love how Windows XP lets me delete or rename files right in the Open or Save dialog boxes."
"What's the big deal? On the Mac, we just switch to the desktop and delete or rename things there."
Sorry, but that's just not as good as being able to do it within the dialog boxes.
The bottom line: How well something works and how elegantly it's been built is also relevant to the "which is better" discussion.
4. Don't make grandiose purchasing plans by guessing on technology's future.
This pointer is directed exclusively at Mac-bashers, particularly the ones on the nation's boards of education.
If you decide to standardize on Windows across all schools, fine. But make sure you have legitimate reasons like economics or the need to run some Windows-only software suite.
"We want the kids to learn what they'll one day use in the business world," however, is NOT a good reason. If you think you know what anyone will be using in 2020 (when today's first graders will graduate from college), you must have a heck of a magical crystal ball.
Truth is, by 2020, no operating system will look an
Yeah I'll probably only be one of many to reply to this before it gets modded down... "Windows are faster, they have twice as many Mhz as apple's." Wow, I want one of those 5.4Ghz Athlon64s
Let's get this in early.
It is entirely possible that if Mac OS X had the marketshare of Windows it would be compromised as often. 95% is a plum target.
It is important to note that OS X will never have the marketshare of Windows.
Apple is a single company. To supply the entire world's computing needs, they would have to grow to dwarf even IBM.
The question before us, then, is how much marketshare Apple would need to have for it to be compromised as thoroughly as Windows has been.
Is it 10%? 15%? Would an Apple which had 40% be so completely helpless in the face of viruses?
I doubt it. I think Windows has reached a point of critical mass, where a worm can easily assume that almost every contact in an Outlook address book is also an Outlook client running on Windows. The speed at which worms proliferate in this environment is shocking.
Firefox is starting to have some real marketshare, and remains relatively untouched. As often pointed out, Apache is the majority player in serving, but it mostly untouched. Nothing in the computing world remotely compares to what has happened to the Windows/Office collective.
Perhaps, then, the problem is not inevitable. Perhaps it is not the common outcome of having decent marketshare, but the very unusual outcome of a strikingly insecure OS with full dominance. Any system is likely to be compromised, but I urge you to consider the possibility that any other system is unlikely to be so completely unreliable.
In the meantime, Mac does have the minority share, is completely free of known viruses, and can do anything a PC can do that doesn't require very specialized software. In some hypothetical future when Apple is supplying hundreds of millions of units a year, we might have to worry about Mac security.
That time is not yet. In the meantime, every Mac that is used in place of a PC reduces Microsoft's dominance. By reducing their marketshare, we actually reduce the virus risk on their platform. We slow the spread of computer viruses in the same way condoms slow the spread of STDs. It help the user, of course, but it helps society too. If you don't have a virus, you're not spreading a virus.
Stop living in some strange dreamworld, and examine the real risks and benefits that are here *now.*
Neither of them is the perfect solution to every problem (and no, neither is Linux or any other OS). I work for an art and design college, and our labs are split about 50:50 between Windows and OS X, depending on the academic program (interior/industrial/furniture/jewelry design classes use Windows, fine arts/illustration/digital media/print media use OS X). My own home network contains multiple Windows, OS X, and Linux boxes.
So when people come to me with problems or for advice, I don't preach from the Gospel According to Steve or the Revelation to St. Bill (or the Epistles of Linus). I listen to what their needs are, and I suggest whatever offers the best solution for them.
Last week, I wrote about some of the changes Microsoft has in store for the next version of Windows, which is slated for the end of 2006. Interestingly, very few of you responded to that column, probably because so much may change in the next 19 months.
But a few of you fired off diatribes about how I'm either a Microsoft "shill" or an Apple "apologist" (or maybe it was the other way around). It's not just me, either; it's a running sardonic joke among tech columnists that you can't even USE the word "Apple" or "Microsoft" without getting hate mail from somebody or other.
It's kind of amazing that various extremists could find the same column too pro-Microsoft AND too pro-Apple. But hey--that's the nature of ideological soldiers, whether they're in the conservative-liberal war, the evolutionist-creationist war or the Hummer-Prius war.
The Mac-Windows war, though, is especially pointless, protracted, and winnerless. There will always be people on each side who are every bit as rabid and un-convincible as those in any other religious war.
Still, I'd like to suggest, as a starting point of civility, a few pointers for participants in the O.S. war. Consider it one man's version of, "Can't we all just get along?"
1. Hate something for its failings, not for its success.
It's totally fine to criticize something because of its flaws--to hate Windows because it's bloated and cryptic, for example, or the iPod because it's too easily scratched. But condemning something just because it's the dominant product is just sour grapes. Arguments along the lines of "I hate Bill Gates because he's rich" or "I hate the iPod because everyone has one" add nothing to the dialogue.
2. No condemning something until you've tried it.
If everyone abided by this idea, about 95 percent of all the Windows-Macintosh diatribes would evaporate overnight. But here it is: If you haven't tried something, then you really have no basis to comment.
3. Execution matters.
I'm so tired of reading discussions like this: Person A: "I love Mac OS X Tiger! That Spotlight thing is so cool: press a keystroke, type a few letters, and get an instantaneous listing every file, folder and program containing that text."
Person B: "You pathetic loser! It's called hard-drive indexing, and Windows XP has had it from Day One." Of course, the truth is that Windows Indexing Service is to Spotlight as Thomas the Tank Engine is to a bullet train. In Indexing Service, you can't search with a single keystroke, the speed is nothing like Spotlight's, you can't search for metadata (115 kinds of secondary information, like music genre, Photoshop layer names, camera settings in digital photos, etc.), the index isn't updated in real time as you create or delete documents, and so on.
It goes the other way, too. "I love how Windows XP lets me delete or rename files right in the Open or Save dialog boxes."
"What's the big deal? On the Mac, we just switch to the desktop and delete or rename things there."
Sorry, but that's just not as good as being able to do it within the dialog boxes.
The bottom line: How well something works and how elegantly it's been built is also relevant to the "which is better" discussion.
4. Don't make grandiose purchasing plans by guessing on technology's future.
This pointer is directed exclusively at Mac-bashers, particularly the ones on the nation's boards of education.
If you decide to standardize on Windows across all schools, fine. But make sure you have legitimate reasons like economics or the need to run some Windows-only software suite.
"We want the kids to learn what they'll one day use in the business world," however, is NOT a good reason. If you think you know what anyone will be usi
Interestingly, very few of you responded to that column, probably because so much may change in the next 19 months.
... Or we just don't care ...
When crafting your flames, follow the guidelines below to ensure the highest troll-to-signal ratio.
1. Always mention gaming as the pinnacle of computing.
E.g., "The Macintosh has not proven itself to the gamers market as of yet, but excels in media production."
"Windows, whatever your complaints, has wide support for a variety of gaming technologies not yet implemented on other platforms."
2. Refine to make sure it doesn't make sense:
E.g., "Apples suck because my friend tommy once he tried to play a game on his apple iie and it puffed smoke and i was like wtf??!! WHERE IN THE WORLD IS CARMEN SANDIEGO??!"
"I JUST PRESS A BUTTON IN MY WINDOWS SYSTEM CONTROL PANEL AND BACON COMES OUT!!!11one"
3. Make sure you're l33t. If you're not, girls won't like you. They also won't like you unless everybody else is a homosexual.
"FARGOT!! jesuz christo wtf MY 4PPL is T3H L33T BOMB ROX0R!! micro$0ft sux0rs to play fallout and i dont evan LIKE BACON"
"YOUR MOM like to play counterstrike and my W1NDOZE MACHENE IS WIN-WIN SITUATION!!! onbly liberals like bacon cocknut"
4. For clarity, just translate it into Spanish and ROT13 it. It's not like anybody's gonna read it anyway. Then go do your homework like your mom told you to half an hour ago.
Your Karma is sitting somewhere near the "Plain Old Text" option.
vi!
I prefer, an Apple box, runing Ubuntu Linux with a Microsoft mouse and IBM Keyboard. There is everyone happy now?
If you leave CP/M out of the debate, you are in league with the devil and deserve the evil fate that befalls you!!!!
- Greg
Start a happiness pandemic
OS/2 and my sweatyballsack?
"Mac will never be on par with Windows because of the lac (sic) of software choices."
:P
Kind of depends on what you are *doing* and what software you need. Yeah, windows has a lot more choices for software... virus scanners, trojan removes, spyware scrubbers...
"Windows are faster, they have twice as many Mhz as apple's (sic)"
Yeah, because clock speed is a direct indication of how fast the OS runs. Takes nothing about processor and bus architecture into account. A 3 MHz x86 is OBVIOUSLY twice as fast as a 1.5 MHz PowerPC.
"Windows are getting the job done..." Depends on the job. They *all* are "getting the job done".
Mac OS vs Windows vs Linux is just like anything else... they are a tool, designed to do a job. You first identify the job you need to do, then you fit the proper tool to that job. Each fills a particular niche pretty well.
You're obviously an idiot. I think that sums it up.
There's a qualitative difference between "condemning" something as immoral (crimes) and "condemning" something as useless (technology).
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Last time I checked Apple has less 3.5% of the market. Maybe. So what effing "war" are they talking about ? Does Microsoft have megascale paranoia that it needs to be at war with a flea. Is that all they have left to generate enthusiasm for their product. The "war" if there ever was one was over long ago. The chevy cavalier of computing won so now we have to listen to endless puke about how its really better than anything else (especially when its just been reinstalled). So get outta my face with this stupid "war" shite. If the rest of the world wants to use PC's I could care less as long as I can still buy and use a decent computer.
If you speak poorly
about what I use myself
I will beat your ass
To me, the "war" between Apple and Microsoft has always had to do with function, not "quality". You want to play games? Get a Wintel. You want to edit video? Get a Mac.
Both OSes suck.
The Spinning Pizza Wheel Of Death is bloody annoying.
In true Slashdot style though, I can't imagine much worse than Windows.
Linux kinda sucks too, manufacturer support would be nice here, though there'd still be suckiness left.
I'm not intentionally trolling, it all sucks to varying degrees. Otherwise we wouldn't care.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
care to mention this fantastic media player? I for one am still playing about with an Aireo. Even managed to get a graphical windows error up on its monochrome display. Oh how I love embedded systems with mismatched software
... part where you can't even mention Apple nor Microsoft without getting hate thrown in your direction.
Shocker!!! I post on non tech forums as well, and whenever either is brought up, the level of hatred and name calling is amazing. The only think that produces more anger is talking about the president.
My point is that this is so obvious, then why not put "The sky is blue" in the news section here. IT's something we all know.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
Just like most religious wars, the casuses of the hatred (on both sides) are historical. The here-and-now is of little import.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
#1) Calm, rational discussion has no place in discussions of ideology (or /. for that matter)
#2) I am always right
#3)????
#4) Profit !!!
#5) see rule #2
+1 fashionably cynical
Finally the debate will be settled once and for all!
E = m c^3 Don't drink and derive E = m c^3
She would tell me never to discuss religion, politics, or operating systems in mixed company.
I have used them all and stick with Windows at home because I know how to keep it clean and stable.
I have been running Windows 2000 since late 2000 and never reloaded the OS and keep it clean as can be.
Use what you like and then go out and play in the great outdoors.
A Windows vs. Mac debate is as silly as a G.I. Joe vs Strawberry Shortcake debate.
One is for boys, and the other is for girls and male homosexuals.
Duh.
The Internet is generally stupid
An actual war between Windows and Mac users would be awesome. I'd love to see some cubicle to cubicle Molotov cocktail tossing.
You don't have to buy, on either side of the fence. Windows is on practically every machine out there. You can tour Mac OS X at your nearest Mac Mall/Mac Town/Apple Store. Or you can head over to the nearest K-12 school. Or you can head over to a library (college OR public, both tend to have a fair share of the Mackenworld). Both platforms are everywhere, you just have to look hard to see the Macs (they're typically well hidden/sitting on the employee's desks).
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
First you'd have to get people to RTFA, for starters.
I'm often amazed however at how many non tech literate people I know simply refuse to even try OSX even when I offer to show them how to. These are people who are completely frustrated by Windows but stick with it only because it's what they know and cannot even fathom an alternative.
** http://www.nkhumanrights.or.kr/ ** Human rights in North Korea. 1 million estimated dead from starvation.
"Arabs, Israelis Sign 'Screw Peace' Accord" Now I can't find the article online. But if I did, I'm sure I could replace "Arabs" by "Apple Fans" and "Israelis" by "Windows supporters" and make this spoof article become a current view columns in any tech journal. //The substition were random. Please don't see any political comment in this post ///Using "supporter" instead of "fan" for Windows was intentionnal though.
www.bugmenot.com
My genetic programming website: http://www.helpmefigurethisout.com/
I think you're right.
I feel stupider for having read that.
And I wasn't expecting much, it is commentary on a religious war after all.
Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
If everyone abided by this idea, about 95 percent of all the Windows-Macintosh diatribes would evaporate overnight. But here it is: If you haven't tried something, then you really have no basis to comment.
That 95% -- probably more like 99% -- of Windows fanboys have never tried a Mac, I can well believe. But the reverse? Uh-uh.
Windows is everywhere, and unavoidable. Anyone who uses a Mac, or Linux, or any other OS that's not Windows, almost certainly has made an informed decision to do so based on harsh experience with Microsoft's crap.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
I think a form of trying something out is "basing your opinion on a source that you trust". No person is ever going to be able to try out every piece soft/hardware for any OS. The same applies to other circumstances (for instance, the fellow comparing it to a judge/legal-type person).
I too use both systems (one, significatnly more then the other... but I have more exposure then most). They do both have pro's and con's... wasn't I just arguing about this a day or two ago.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand this sig, and those that beat up people who do.
I've always wished for a website (with a forum, obviously) dedicated entirely to the Mac vs. PC debate. Sort of a never ending flame war. Is there such a website?
My genetic programming website: http://www.helpmefigurethisout.com/
Or maybe you just didn't understand the guy? He was probably just saying you couldn't play a video and do any other math at the same time at the processor level which seem true enough to me. Probably the fact he was fat, greasy, and lacked social skills predisposed you to misinterpreting him. Yeah, ok that's still a bad image for Apple...
...but Intel processors are the suck. If processors weren't a prime example of market lock-in there would be no reason to use any x86 (even AMD) over Power, or over 68k back in the day. Check sandpile.org and see if you can made any sense in the instruction set.
This post, however, is so it'll be AC.
Before your post I thought that this was a refreshingly short article with just one paragraph:
"The Mac-Windows war may alwsy be pointless, protracted, and winnerless. Still, I'd like to suggest, as a starting point of civility,"
Man aren't we getting tired of the NYT zealots. Mossberg rules. Pogue sucks! End of discussion.
This is...
O
U
T
R
A
G
E
O
U
S
!
Huh? Whoever heard of having rules for a religious war? Geez, what sort of nonsense is that? Did the Emacs vs. VI wars ever have rules? Silly columnist...
Apple: Ground Rules for the Windows vs. Mac War
Why is this a war? I think that whole characterization is ridiculous and has been for use.
Apple is successful. Microsoft is successful. Linux is successful. Sure, some are more successful than others but really, grow up people. This whole "my penis, er, OS is bigger, better, and more successful than your OS" is childish. That's the sort of rhetoric one hears in the schoolyard.
Just use the OS that works for you and move along.
SiO2
What's really, really, REALLY sad is that you just described one of my Linux boxes to a T.
i'm the jedidiahmarkfoster your parents warned you about
...other than "tech columnists" that is. The entire world has pretty much seen about all there is to see in Windows so not much excitement there. Presumably fewer people have seen Mac but they can go down to their local outlet and check it out anytime they get the urge. Either way, this hardly seems like a 'war' between Windows and Mac. The Mac users I know don't care in the slightest who else likes it. Same for Windows users.
When TFA author says: "It's not just me, either; it's a running sardonic joke among tech columnists that you can't even USE the word 'Apple' or 'Microsoft' without getting hate mail from somebody or other." he is probably making the whole thing up. For one thing, do tech columnists really get together and tell 'running jokes.' I doubt it. Most of them seem as serious as a heart attack and for sure they never talk to other fellow tech columnists so that they won't inadvertently give away any ideas for their next article to them.
And then TFA author says "Interestingly, very few of you responded to that column..." but then gets missed by the cluebat and goes on to give his handful of readers a second dose of snooze.
exactamundo. They should call you dead eye dan.
I will take Linux or a Mac over Winsucks ANY day of the week. Matter of fact I DID starting 3 years ago, I use both and never looked back! "Merl"
2. No condemning something until you've tried it.
If everyone abided by this idea, about 95 percent of all the Windows-Macintosh diatribes would evaporate overnight. But here it is: If you haven't tried something, then you really have no basis to comment.
There is an interesting corallary to this, which to this day amazes me. The token zealot (on either side) appears to believe that the world is divided amonst though who don't have either "competing" product, those who own A, and those who own B.
Apparently, the notion of owning - and perhaps more importantly, enjoying - both products is so counter to the agenda of your garden variety fanboy, that it is anathema to their very dogma.
vi!!
(note: I'm a very happy AMD64 owner, so my opinions may be slightly biased)
It's more like Mac vs PC, Not Mac vs Windows. In fact, it should be more like OS X vs Windows.
Any Mac user is going to tell you to sell your PC all together and get a Mac. I have a real problem with this, because the problems are not usually inherant in the PC, but in the operating system that runs on the PC.
I think Mac users really need to step back and really *decide* just what it is they're fighting. If it's just Windows, well, that's all well and good. We all know Windows has some serious issues. But if you're going to try to take the PC on, I think you'll find yourself on the losing side of the battle.
Lets face it, they're (PCs) cheaper, they have a wider range of available operating systems, a wider range of hardware, more software, and there is no hardware lock-in taking place. I can get a PC from a thousand different places. If I want a Mac, I'm buying it from Apple, and getting shafted in the bank account at th same time.
Granted, you can get a Mac mini now for very little, but it really is an underpowered little machine, and for the same amount of money, I can get a PC that will outperform it.
If Apple really wants to start to have their hardware dominate the market in any way, shape or form, they really need to let other people in to help. The PC wouldn't be anywhere today if other people were not allowed to build and sell them, instead of suing anyone who tries. It's unfortunate that on one side of the coin, we have Apple boasting that they really support their users doing things with their hardware. But the instant those same enthusiests try to do something (hardware modification wise) with a Mac and resell it, they're branded as criminals.
In closing, I don't really think Apple embodies the elements of freedom that made the PC popular. It doesn't matter how many fancy cases they design, or how interesting their new hardware is. They will always be playing second fiddle to a behemoth they can't do anything about.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
The Battlestar Galactica doesn't use computers. That's how it wasn't totally pwned by the Cylons.
Star Trek starship computers uses LCARS.
Ever tried to read the FP? ;)
I have mod points, but I don't see +1 "Funny flamebait" in the list.
So true! Another factor to consider is that there is a huge network effect working against Apple and Linux, and still they have made inroads. The fact that practically every company runs Windows, almost every big game comes out for Windows first, and there are zillions of vendors in the Windows world makes it that much more difficult for someone to buck the tide and choose a Mac or load Linux on their PC.
That to me says something about just how bad the computing experience has become in the Windows world. Several relatives have switched from Windows only after repeated horrible, costly Windows experiences. It's not that they wanted to go buy Macs; they wanted their Windows machines to make their lives easier. It's like the movie reviewer vs. the paying moviegoer. If I paid money for something, I'm prejudiced in favor of it working properly. Yet Windows pissed them off so much that they had to jump ship.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
From the Flame Warriors:
Diplomat butts into hot disputes, presuming that the combatants will welcome and appreciate his even-handed and eminently reasonable mediation. Frankly, he gets what he deserves.
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
So if Microsoft is Cathoclism and Linux is Protestantism.
Would that make able be Islam or Militant Buddhism?
Or maybe they are just Jehovah's witnesses...
Oh, I'm just confused now.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Truth is, by 2020, no operating system will look anything like it does today. By 2020, we may well be using holography or tablets or glorified cellphones instead of computers.
I recommend all the lions lie down with the lambs (or the lambs with the lions, I don't know which side you're on)--and then stand up again--united in defiance of a potential, terrible future where we do everything on our goddamn cellphones. There is an enemy worse than the other OS!
I read Slashdot for the articles.
Here's a nickel kid. Go buy yourself a better computer
notepad!
(hey where'd everybody go?)
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
Went into an apple reseller yesterday and picked up a keyboard. Asked a salesdroid "What are my chances of getting this to work on a PC?" (I already knew the answer to that, was just trolling!). Salesdroid said "Zero - there's no drivers for it". (Clearly doesn't know about USB HIDs!). I said "Mind if I try it?".
Whipped out Dell laptop and fired it up. Windows XP detected an "Apple Extended Keyboard" and a "Generic USB Hub", realised that the keyboard was a regular Human Interface Device (HID) and just worked. Apple key == Windows Key. Everything else works. F13-F16 has no function (need to remap some of them to Print Screen and Pause/Break at some point), and even the volume up/down/mute keys work out of the box.
Fired up Gentoo Linux with a 2.6 kernel, it detected it as a "Mitsumi Electric Apple Extended USB Keyboard" and again, just worked.
So yeah... I really really like the slimline minimalist style of this keyboard. Sure, it isn't an IBM/PCKeyboard.com style buckling spring [pckeyboard.com] keyboard, but its a very nice alternative. I think I'll be trying more Apple hardware as the mood strikes.
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
pico!
No it didn't, and that is why it took so long for the sensible majority to agree that Emacs had clearly won. If there were rules (assuming the scum who supported vi would follow civilized rules), the debate could have been quickly and fairly settled without unneeded name-calling.
As you have said, alot has changed in 5 years.
make world, not war
Keep in mind, every OS has things it's good at.
Most OS's get two of the following:
Cheap - The combination of operating system, hardware, running software and updates is below or on par with the other choices.
Easy to setup/maintain - You average inept home user can shove a disk in, follow basic directions and expect to end up with working apps, sound and video and peripherals. If any problems arise they might be able to stick in a disk that came with a piece of hardware and remedy that problem without in depth knowledge of system editors. Updates should be easy to find and nearly automatic to install. Choosing and running updates should require little to no knowledge of computers. Joe user should also be able to walk in to the nearest wally world, pick up a slide scanner take it home and get it running without calling their family computer geek.
Stable - Would you want this OS controlling a robot doing eye surgery on you? Well you probably wouldn't want that in any case but you get my drift. Will this system do that it's intended to do without failure? Can the system be easily compromised due to minor operator oversight or ignorance?
On my desk sits a Mac to my left, an XP box to my right and a FC3 box straight ahead.
What the Mac does, it generally does well. Looks are obtained at the cost of speed but not so much that it makes the experience painful. It's very stable but it lacks good apps without a lot of money invested.
The Mac is the business guy in the tailored suit, a professional but he doesn't come cheap. He isn't really any better than anyone else, but he looks the part. He's pleasant to be around and if experience matters more to you than money, he's your man.
The Linux box is Fast, what it does, it generally does well. What it doesn't do by default requires endless toil and RTFM. It's rather stable and you can force it to do just about anything if you have enough time. Once you have all the stuff in the right places it's not hard to use but getting it to that point on all but the most generic hardware/software requires an experienced hand.
The Linux box is the genius teenager, You can dress it up, take it out, it's a cheap date and very able. It lacks refinement and organization but makes up for it with flexibility and low expense. If you can figure out how to motivate it, minimal investment can prove a staggering return.
The Windows box is pretty fast, fairly cheap but it takes a lot to keep it in proper condition. There's a large collection of free software that does a descent job though there's a large collection of expensive software that arguably does the job better. The biggest problem is that it will continue to work if it's not kept up to date. Eventually it will be struck down through it's unpatched insecurities. You can't leave it alone. If novices understood how important patching and not running too much cheesy third party software was, the competition would have a hard time holding on. Windows has great flexibility, unfortunately that usually comes at the cost of stability. It's all in how far you take it.
Windows is that lazy uncle that never seems to get things right. If you keep on him he's ok (if not pretty good) at what he does, just not very trust worthy if left alone. He's pretty cheap to impress and can be dressed up, you can let him house sit, but you don't trust him with your china. Whether it's society that makes him that way or his own shortcomings is irrelevant. If you need to deal with him, keep him in his place everyone will be OK.
With the exception of marketing gimics and minor tweaks in the product lines, Mac will continue to make moderately expensive hardware that gets combined with moderately expensive software with the main goal of providing a fantastic user experience to the unknowing public and a fair amount of flexibility to the experienced public that can afford the platform.
Windows will continue to be reactionary to the markets needs. They will continue to create ne
I know one big barrier, and heck probably an unpassable barrier, for me against ever using a Mac is the fact that I can't just load OSX onto my WinTel hardware. There's no way I'm going out to buy overpriced all-new hardware when I don't have significant problems with my Windows PC as it is. Now Linux, on the other hand...that's free, and I don't have to change my hardware. It's an easy choice. As a matter of fact, I think I will load some version of Linux on my old PC this weekend as a test. The most I've done with Linux is play around with Knoppix a bit, so this should be interesting.
"Me? Lady, I'm your worst nightmare -- a pumpkin with a gun."
c'mon! no one sings "blah blah blah". the correct lyrics are: "la la la". just dig around a bit and you'll find bert (and ernie) singing it for ya (in glorious stereo if you're lucky)...
despite this minor flaw, point 5 still merits highly. :)
That's true on its face, but there's certainly no shortage of Windows critics whose most recent meaningful Windows experience dates back to Windows ME or Windows 98.
That said, I think Apple fans tend to come in many flavors, but the common thread we all have a sense that "the man" is oppressing us.
(Granted we're oppressed but remain quite stylish and functional while we flip off "the man" and make faces at "the man" when he's not looking)
An interesting win for companies regarding the network effect is that now a lot of employees are buying their own laptops for work with their own money, because the company won't pay for a Mac. Ironically, most of the executive staff and sales staff and half the engineers at the company I work for do their work on Macs, but the company won't buy them Macs, so they buy their own. Win win for the corporate bottom line.
I know there are *Intel* jocks who get into the whole PC hardware thing, but is there actually anyone who thinks of Windows as more than a means to an end (at best)?
I posit that there are people who hate/ridicule Macs, but it doesn't necessarily mean they think Windows is neato.
Can anyone prove me wrong? Have you heard someone actually say "I think windows is great" who didn't have MS stock options?
It's all the fault of you people who were too stupid to buy BeOS back when it was coming out in beta and clearly better than every other operating system on the planet! Now you're stuck complaining about systems that aren't even object oriented and don't have BeFS which could have done everything Spotlight or WinFS can do or would have if people had just used BeOS so it didn't die out back before Search was king!
...Powerbook and a Windows XP desktop. At work I use Linux. What's this war of which people speak?
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Yes, I see it now:
The Windows users building some kind of overcomplicated Molotov-cocktail which ignites with the least effort and causes most of them to get blown up. The balance of Windows users have already by chance attended Molotov-cocktail University and are certified to make the basic explosive.
Mac users, on the other side of the office, order theirs from molotovcocktail.com. Each one comes in box so pretty that few ever remove the contents and those that do, adorn their person with multiple cocktails. Although still heavily outnumbered, they are quite skilled at throwing. The battle plays itself out to a near draw, given the ratio of Windows users left to the Mac users who can get the cocktail out of the box and through attrition there are only two users left standing.
After that, in walks the Linux user with a mini-nuclear-bomb which he took 20 years to construct in his basement. He rids the office of both Windows and Mac users.
Afterwards, a race of mutant Linuxes grow up to inhabit the Earth.
but perhaps the gay men?
I mean, don't YOU wonder about Sgt. Slaughter?
It's not what you know, or even who you know- It's how many people recognize your damn
Surely you meant that people should have dedicated themselves to CP/M! Now THAT's an OS!
The CB App. What's your 20?
we would be doing this at a football game. My team better than your's bitch. "Ravens go to hell"; "Steelers are whores". Oh boy, we're no better than them and we still don't laid on top of it. Oh the sadness
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
The polite explanation for this might be Stockholm Syndrome*. The impolite explanation is pig ignorance.
you had me at #!
They're also largely responsible for putting a computer on every desk at the office, in every home on your street and in every device that you own.
I saw USE and just couldn't help but think "Gentoo."
They're also largely responsible for putting a computer on every desk at the office, in every home on your street and in every device that you own.
They're also largely responsible for creating an environment suitable for SkyNet's takeover. Watch the movies.
Sorry that was able=Apple. Thats what I get for talking to someone on the phone and posting to /.
Sometimes the preview button eludes me as well.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
BURN IN HELL, WINDOWS LOSERS!
Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
Otherwise IMO Mac all the way (although I only use my eMac for video work these days, everything else on my Ubuntu box).
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
...and the Jedi don't do that?
Or based on half-truths and propaganda concerning security and stability, from a lot of what I read around here...
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
Such as Mac Users who use Macs at home, often use Windows PCs at work? That they should not be accused of hypocracy? Why is it hardly ever the other way around, that PC Users who use Windows at home, use Macs at work?
How about we opt for ECW rules? I think that should make it interesting.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
the fact that practically every company runs Windows
This is true, but do they run ONLY windows?
At the company where I work, we all have windows desktops. However, when you walk by, you will see a full screen Exceed or VNC session on 90% of engineer's screens. We have dozens of linux boxes to do our actual work on.
DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
Just from the large volume of posts that appear on Slashdot...
The answer: yes, macs support multi-button mice.
Typical example: "how can you right/middle click on a Mac? Macs don't have more than one mouse button."
Solution:
1. get a multi-button mouse.
2. plug it into a mac PC.
3. use it.
Windows is like the force- it surrunds us and binds us. But not in a good way.
I am one of those people, I have only Macs at home exactly BECAUSE I have to use Windows every day at work. I actually used to use a Mac laptop at work for diagramming as I was more productive but then the network goons came down with lockout of non-authorized machines, with no inclanation to let Macs join the party.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I fail to see what would have been so limited about learning PHP on the Mac when it comes bundled with the OS along with Apache and the full set of UNIX utlities.
All the Mac people you might have met are ignorant, but I and all my Mac friends are generally old-school UNIX users. Not just Solaris, or Linux, but also more interesting variants like HP-UX and Xenix. Not to mention some VAX and MPE stuff thrown in.
So please do not stereotype Mac users as they might just know a HELL of a lot more abotu cross-platform computing and OS issues than you think. We just got tired of configuring the UNIX flavor of the week long ago.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
At least Sideous remains true to something instead of turning on everything and getting his legs cut off.
So where does that leave your argument?
The other cool thing about Sideous is that he can recharge his Powerbook battery without a plug. Yeah I might just turn to the dark side for unlimited battery power for all my devices.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The next Mac vs. PC HD performance benchmark that comes out, I demand the PC side run the test with the MCaffe real-time scanner on. Because that's how most people are really using Windows today.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'm not intentionally trolling, it all sucks to varying degrees.
I haven't been happy with an OS since Genera. And not really even then.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear. All OSs suck. All processor architectures suck. I have strong feelings about which suck less, but I will happily proclaim that they all suck.
All OSs and all architectures will probably continue to suck until long after you, I, and every person with a /. uid under 131072 are dead and buried.
elle!
It's a Scott Adam's (as in Dilbert) thing.
Well, that's really not a good way to tell. AltiVec is often used to accelerate features that also need to work, albeit less quickly, on machines without AltiVec.
If you would like to know more about AltiVec, here are a couple places to start:
AltiVec Document Archive
Search results for AltiVec at developer.apple.com
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Sorry but Netcraft never confirmed a "war" between Apple and Microsoft. I do know that there has been a pitched, no holds barred war by Microsoft against linux and F/OSS. And that Microsoft has been employing a lot of mercenaries (SCO Group, Gartner, USPTO, etcetera) in the war.
If there is to be a war between Apple and MSFT, then let it at least be a CQB (Close Quarter Battle). IMHO, Apple already has a better OS based upon F/OSS and open standards, while MSFT keeps trying to timeshift their battle 18 months into the future. When I draw my sword, I want to see the fear in the whites of their eyes, and their sinking realization that a timeshifted "shield" is no protection against the cold hard steel of today's reality.
In the movie "Escape from LA", the main character, Snake Plisken, played by Kurt Russel, declared a gunfight to be fought by "Bangkok rules". The others asked him WTF that was. He said: "I'll throw this can up, and until it falls to the ground nobody shoots". While the other guys watched for the can to fall down, he shot them.
Also, every alphabet has an order in which it's characters are organized so as long as that alphanet has 13 or more characters ROT13 should work.
Hold the Control key while clicking a one button mouse.
What are we missing? Oh yeah... theres that Linux/Unix thing I keep hearing about.
;)
Seriously though. The reason it isn't Windows vs. Mac vs. Unix is because everyone knows Unix is better. There's just no contest.
Here are a few of the many reasons Unix is better.
A. It isn't proprietary.
B. It runs a heck of a lot faster. This includes boot up time, heavy processor loads, and system critical tasks. It just performs better.
C. It's usually free.
-=Zeus=And=Hades=-
I've been around too many Windows users that claim "Yeah, we had Macs when I was in high school and they sucked."
Yes, they probably did suck. 8 years ago.
So unless you have tried (and I do mean tried, not "seen on tv") a CURRENT Mac and compared it to a CURRENT PC, then please STFU.
If you're talking about an environment for professional programmers or other technically savvy people, there lots of places that also employ Macs and Linux. But most IT departments at large corporate or government entities (in my experience, YMMV) are extremely keen on standardization.
For example, a government agency I worked at back in the late 1990s actually went to the trouble of purging all instances of FileMaker on client machines because not only did they want to standardize on Windows, they adopted a policy that explictitly stated that not only the OS, but the desktop apps had to be purchased from Microsoft, and could only purchased from another software company if a special need could be demonstrated.
I literally had to go to the CFO and explain why an exception to the rule would be necessary, since I wanted to use a Mac to develop and maintain a large (1,200+ page) website, which I wanted to host on a Linux server. The head of IT, who wanted me to develop and host it on Windows, and I sat and argued in front of the CFO until the CFO finally decided to let me do it my way, provided that the IT department would not provide support for the Mac or for the Linux server. Of course, no support was ever required for either of them, as it was easy for me to take care of both on my own.
Admittedly this was "back in the day" and I haven't been in a corporate/government environment in some time. Your workplace sounds like a great example of how the engineers have routed around the sort of militant emphasis on standardization that ends up creating more problems than it solves.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
That's great, except TFA was about software...
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
OS/360
s t/ ibm360.htm
l
http://www.beagle-ears.com/lars/engineer/comphi
http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/rd43-56.htm
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
Microsoft is the Protestantism - started by a persuasive leader and aided by advances in technology, but borrowing heavily from its predecessor in ritual. The system was very unstable, however, and unable or unwilling to maintain control. The userbase splintered, with many users "rolling their own" systems, though all were compatible with the central requirements of the Microsoft programming. Fortunately, the core system was accommodating enough that it could adapt to the differing needs of all these user bases, though as a result it sometimes became inconsistent and full of holes. Users are extremely diverse; some are very intelligent and reasonable, and some are stark raving mad; some are content and some are evangelical. They do a lot of good work but it is sometimes undermined by the nutty ones which nobody has the power to excommunicate.
And Linux? Clearly, Linux is Islam. Foreign to the other users and often incomprehensible to outsiders, it's strange rituals, archaic incantations, and tendency to eschew the excesses of other systems as sheer decadence give it a mystical quality. It lacks a central authority, preferring instead to rely on a network of prophets and clerics. Many users are content with their system and believe it is ideal, and though their methods may seem backwards to other users, they believe their methods to have greater power and influence. But the more radical users are militant fundamentalists, who seek to undermine and ultimately bring down the other systems - or more precisely, to bring down the power structures the other systems rely on to maintain control. In their view, the superiority of their system is self-evident, and once the other users have been liberated from the shackles that lock them in to other systems, conversion will be total. Some of the more dangerous prophets are effective at over-the-top rhetoric that can whip the users into a frenzy. As a result, in order to undermine the control mechanisms of other systems, the most radical may resort to acts considered by many to be unethical or illegal.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
It's obvious you haven't read "The Little Engine That Could," or you'd realize that the locomotive in question is really a she.
No, it doesn't make sense to me either, but I didn't write the story. Then again, the start of the story talks about how the kids in the village will love eating their fresh spinach, so it's not exactly rooted in reality...
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
I've tried using a mac probably in the same way you've tried using a PC: I picked up the mouse, used it for an hour, and wondered why I was wasting my time. Or, I used it to surf the web, and nothing else. Or I tried to use my favorite piece of cross platform software.
The point of the matter is that you havn't really tried Windows until you're reasonably comfortable with it. Same for using Linux or a Mac.
Whenever we do somthing we're not used to we are going to be frustrated by our own akwardness.
When interviewing individuals for potential partnerships in future web development projects, I always ask the open-ended question:
I don't debate or defend either side of the plate when I pose this question. Cross-platform compatibility is a way of life for our group and asking such a troll-ish question often evokes an "informative" response that I wouldn't normally get.
Trust me. Start asking people that same question and I'm sure you'll have no problem finding some zealots on every side of the playing field
Uhm i guess i would have to say Islam.
Mohammed laid out ground rules for a jihad or holy war (actually holy pilgrimage originally). Not that many if any modern terrorists follow thoughs rules for their holy wars. Benladen has broken every rule laid out by Mohammed for not only holy war but for many other aspects of Islam.
Why Muslims deify these terrorists like they do for violating the very fundamental roots of their religion is beyond me.
But their are ground rules for a holy war even for Christian holy wars like the crusades. You could kill Muslims and still get into heaven for one.
The only religions that don't seam to have these ground rules are the different PC/OS religious groups who seem to act like anyone and anything not using/advocating their PC/OS choice is to be smacked down with any and all violent means available to them even and especially if it goes beyond what's considered necessary.
Much like modern terrorist groups today which is were it seems these PC/OS zealots seem to get their inspiration from.
OK so this post doesn't pull any punches either but i've gotten sick and tired myelf of all these pissing contests between the PC/OS zealots going on everywhere. For gods sake it's some pieces of hardware and some stinking code get over it already.
Man of all the stupid idiotic things to fight over this has got to be the worst one possible.
Coward? Coward! Thems fighten words!!
I have a PC for work stuff (like web site planning and designing) and a mac for work stuff and play stuff. I don't see what the big fight is all about. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.
Finally, Microsoft is going to go back to picking on MacIntosh for awhile! Gee, thanks, Apples, we Penguins have been sucking up the bullets for way too many melee rounds - time to kick back in the igloo and recuperate!
...will short lived since, as we all know, Linux users don't get many dates because they spend all their time in their basement mucking around with their Linux boxen and constructing atom bombs. Not that this really matters since even if Linux users could get more dates and thus increase their reproductive rate they could not conceive offspring because their reproductive organs have been irradiated by prolonged exposure to weapons grade plutonium and so humanity will be doomed to extinction.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Wankers!
As time goes on, the gap in usability between Windows/Mac and open source operating systems will shrink to the point where there is no good reason to spend a lot of money on an operating system. People like getting stuff for free. And ever since Microsoft made it difficult to casually copy Windows for someone, Linux has taken off. Coincidence? I don't think so.
CP/M met UNIX in Cromix.
/usr/include and "L:" to "/usr/lib" so when you ran Microsoft M80 or L80 you didn't have to deal with the "/ as option versus / as file separator" problem. It was a mich nicer approach to dealing with the conflict between CP/M and UNIX syntax than the mess Microsoft came up with in MS-DOS 2.11.
Cromix was the best CP/M derivative I ever used. It was based on CDOS, Cromemco's CP/M clone, and ran on a multi-processor Z80... each process ran in a 48K bank-switched TPA on one of the Z80 cards, and the BIOS/BDOS area was bank-switched and (IIRC) shared read-only between the cards, so you could have an awful lot of code (for a Z80) in that 16K chunk. It provided the CP/M API, a UNIX-compatible API, and a huge chunk of libc (including printf!) in the BDOS.
To provide compatibility with CP/M programs, the drive letters were treated like VMS global symbols: you could assign "M:" to
Its only shortcoming is that a few CP/M programs required a 56K TPA (though fewer over time as the BDOS grew and memory-mapped video started to catch on and chew up part of high memory), so wouldn't run under Cromix.
Well I can't see it, because it requires registration, you apple-loving worm !
Not that I'd actually use or care about either Windows nor Mac, but still...
Windows is a living dead virus incubator which waits for the worst possible moment to keel over and crash when not sending porn spam with pictures of the goatse man to your mother, boss and neighbours. Mac is an overpriced decoration item for yuppies too stupid to learn how to use a two-button mouse or to be able to realize that a colored computer case is not high art, built on top the dying BSD kernel. GNU/Linux is a secret communist plot by hippies who like vi since it colors C code with pretty colors to turn the world into coder's paradise and sing USSR's national anthem in assembly while urinating on the smoldering remains of Microsoft HQ.
Now, if this post seems a bit insulting, don't forget: you could have laid out your ground rules in an open forum, webblog or something; but you chose NY Times. make a better choise next time.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
The reason it isn't Windows vs. Mac vs. Unix is because everyone knows Unix is better.
The reason is it isn't Windows vs Mac vs UNIX is because the "Mac vs UNIX" part isn't a meaningful statement: Mac OS X is UNIX.
You know, as someone who owns and uses both a Mac and a PC (thereby insuring my lack of bias), I have been saying for a while that the difference between using the two is only slightly more acute than the difference between Coke and Pepsi.
As someone who owns and uses and writes code for and maintains other people's code for and has released free software for and supports users on both Mac and Windows, I have good reason for my bias against Windows.
Despite that bias, for most of the '90s I really couldn't in all honesty recommend a Mac against a Windows box for anyone but the computerphobic: Macs were great for them, not because they were simpler to use but because they were simple to understand and because "common sense" actions actually tended to work.
But the OS was horribly kludgy and unstable if you needed more than something to run one program at a time. Multitasking on the Mac was a matter of being able to pause your use of one program, switch reasonably quickly to another, and use IT for a while.
And while Windows needed a lot of stupid maintainance (you STILL need to manually defragment the file system? I honestly find that hard to believe, but I'm assured it's so) as long as you didn't download and open untrusted files you were pretty much OK.
And there's some design decisions that Microsoft made in Windows that really were very good. The original key bindings and controls were well designed, and it was easy to work primarily with the keyboard, primarily with the mouse, or using both in concert. They did this much better than anyone else has ever done. Unfortunately since Windows 95 they've systematically undermined this, and even if they hadn't it wouldn't make up for the rest of the things Microsoft has done to Windows over the years.
Which brings me to the two things that changed my mind about recommending Windows.
First, Internet Explorer and desktop integration changes the virus threat on Windows from "if you don't do stupid stuff, you should be OK" to "if you want to be OK, you have to commit to abandoning Microsoft's browser and mail software, and sticking to it"... and for most Windows users, particularly when they hit web pages they couldn't use in Netscape, that was too much to commit to. It still is for over 90% of Windows users... even the ten or twenty percent who use Firefox don't use it exclusively or even primarily.
Second, Mac OS X meant that instead of having one of the worst operating systems under the hood, it had one of the best.
Now, I'd managed to get a few people to try FreeBSD or Linux, I used to hand out copies of the FreeBSD install disk as business cards, and I've done the same with Linux and BSD liveCDs. But it wasn't the same kind of experience for them, and they ended up back on Windows. Even I ended up using Windows as my desktop with UNIX apps running through a local X server from another computer.
But Mac OS X gives you not just the same kind of experience as Windows, with lots of good commercial software and a well integrated UI that most programs follow... it does all that BETTER than Windows does it. And, with a few exceptions, it's avoided the big "virus magnet" design flaws in Windows.
"let's get something straight. I don't love my computers. They are machines that help me work, that's all."
And THAT is the best reason of all for choosing OS X over Windows, when you have a choice, when you have to choose.
When I recommend a Mac to someone I know, I want their computer to be something that's just there, that just works. I don't want it to be a burden to them, and (and this is a selfish reason, yes, but it's an unbiased one) I don't want to have to return again and again to help them out of a jam.
Apple managed to shut down all Apple II clones in the market. They won. And by doing so... they lost the microcomputer market. Keep in mind that they heavily influenced if not started the consumer / business microcomputer market.
IBM was unable to maintain control of their platform. IBM's lost was the market's gain.
I'm not so sure it would have been an overall advantage for Apple to have lost control of their platform. But it might (just might - there's still the issue of the IBM name) have made today's landscape look a bit more interesting.
I am almost every day, whether I've a reason to Windows myself that day or not, forced to deal with the seeping miasma of sheer banal incompetence that permiates the Windows-using world. There's just so much sheer stupid design that's baked into the genes of Windows that I can't imagine ANYTHING that Microsoft might credibly do that would improve things.
I don't care WHAT people use instead of Windows. I don't care if it's Mac OS X, Mac OS 9, BeOS, Linux, QNX, VMS, or AmigaDOS. Just so long as it's not Windows.
Having worked as a tech for five years and currently being employed by Best Buy, and having seen waay to many jacked up Wintel systems cross my bench, I have come to have more of a love/hate relationship with the USERS themselves of the different OS'es, not necessarily with the OS'es themselves. I find XP to be very stable if you can properly keep it updated and don't do anything to it that totally f***s with the system :).
Mac OS X on the other hand has been nothing but a pure pleasure to work in, mainly because of the attention to detail that they put into the UI and the fact that it more often than not just works without some bizarre tweaking needed.
I also have started to tinker with Linux and am likine that for its stability and software bundle :).
*sits on fence and watches missiles fly overhead from one side to the next while admiring pretty explosions* :)
"The boy is dangerous, they all sense it, why can't you?"
What? All expose is is an OpenGL transform, done on the video card. Why on earth would you want to use Altivec for that?
I think you are confusing it with Core Image, which supposedly recompiles to Altivec if there is no pixel shader support on the video card. I haven't seen anything use this yet though, and from the Core Image 'funhouse' that's installed when you install XCode 2 on Tiger I can tell you the difference between Core Image on a pixel shader supported GPU and an Altivec CPU (with no pixel shader GPU) is a huge scale, something like 100-500x faster on the GPU vs the CPU.
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Don't hype the war.
Sure, the statement that, "you can't even USE the word 'Apple' or 'Microsoft' without getting hate mail from somebody or other," might be true, but to maintain perspective, the hate mail comes from a miniscule percentage of the overall users.
Click the delete button and move on.
Yeah, since Linux goes on Mac and PC hardware, mentioning it in this argument is unimportant. Now converting people to wipe that Mac/M$ OS's off their hardware and install Gentoo or a similar linux distro is another discussion.
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I do see a valid point in trying both platforms. So I will be posting my experiences with my first windows machine after using mac's all my life. Check my journal to see it or my blog
Just try using it on a non-Altivec CPU.
That's another 100-500x times.
Silly, Jason Kottke, won't you ever learn? Trolls are for kids.
I've posted various comments on various forums and I always noticed that putting the brands in your posts results in a flame war for the rest of the topic in 90% of the cases.
I'm not even talking about all the e-mail I received from those people who think that what THEY have is the best and what you and others have is pure junk.
However, I have almost never received an e-mail or reply in a forum from a user which tells me WHY they prefer their brand product and why mine isn't good. I'm always willing to go into a debate when there are ARGUMENTS. But most of them just stick with the pep talk. So: no arguments, no facts, no debate, just flame war...
Oh well, it's safe for me to say that I posted this from a linux PC. Linux isn't a brand (yet) and I hope it stays that way!
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yeah, and they invented the internet too, didn't they?
I think that there is a need to come up with ground rules for comparing operating systems, but they need to be more broad. This article is a farce.
For instance, many tout the variety of commercial software available for Windows, particularly games, as a feature. The fact that Windows is a wildly popular gaming platform is incidental; it is not an actual feature. The same argument can be made in favor of the Apple platform when it comes to *nix software; there is a wide variety of software that runs on OS X, thanks to its *nix underpinnings. Just not games.
There is a difference between direct comparison of functionality, and more broad comparison with a particular application in mind. The typical OS review blurs these notions.
There are, in fact, so many such intricacies that I don't think an honest review of any OS can be made without a particular use in mind. And, as far as I can tell, any company or organization that is considering spending money on a move either way takes this into consideration consciously or otherwise when evaluating a purchase.
The nitpicking and fanboy-ism we see on the Internet is coming from people who don't have much stake in the debate other than emotional, and have neither formalized their own needs or recognize the needs of others.
In all fairness I haven't seen the SPOD since 10.3. Certainly not in 10.4 (unless an application hangs).
That's debatable.
I've met quite a few Mac users who don't even know that Windows now has a built-in firewall. Or that such FREE applications such as Zonealarm existed that do the exact same thing. Or that applications like Stardock's DesktopX exist for full customizable skinning of the Windows desktop environment (if style is your major complaint)...hell, some people have already written Mac OS X skins for their Windows XP machines.
Most Mac zealots are too busy preaching about whatever latest feature to even LOOK to see if said feature already exists as a Windows application.
This guy's such a fanboy.
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The apple Bluetooth keyboard is really a beautiful thing. It's all the nice slim lines of the keyboard but no cord, and a nice key response rate.
That and a normal-sized bluetooth Kensigton mouse really help reduce desk clutter.
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In that case I guess I haven't really tried Windows - although I've been using it on an every day basis for 10 years I still amn't comfortable with it ;-)