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Terrorist Link to Copyright Piracy Alleged
xbsd writes "John Stedman, a lieutenant in the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department in charge of IP violations, testified in front of the Senate Homeland Security committee that some associates of terrorist groups such as Hezbollah may be involved in copyright violations. According to CNET's Declean McCullagh: 'Even though Stedman's evidence is circumstantial, his testimony comes as Congress is expected to consider new copyright legislation this year. An invocation of terrorism, the trump card of modern American politics, could ease the passage of the next major expansion of copyright powers'."
I see another REAL-ID act comming...
Have comparisons to terrorism become like comparisons to Hitler and Nazi Germany on /.?
Exactly.
Why the hell would a Terrorist outfit pirtae Sith? For money? Please, they can get it much easier other places.
Is that a shock? Terrorism is the new buzz word, slap it onto anything you don't like and it's instantly evil.
Hell lets just call Nazis terrorists now. They are pretty much interchangable if you ignore the "short" gap between the end of the second world war and today
I like muppets.
It has to be reverse psychology on his part. I'm sure he is on our side. Please support him!
I say the MPAA is a COMMUNIST! Get them!
Organized crime benefitting from organised sales of ill-gotten loot? That unpossible mon.....
"If Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to electronic music"
<SARCASM>
So people who drive too fast obviously have terrorist connections. They should be punished as terrorists.
</SARCASM>
remember those anit-drug ads, buying weed supports terrorism, sounds like the same bullshit again
... it was discovered that Al Qaeda operatives and other terrorist groups used Linux and other free open source software to manage their daily operations and keep their network in order. The U.S. Justice Department is threatening legal retaliation to all FOSS developers.
Where would the police be then?
-b
I thought that the main sources of Hezbollah funding were Iran ($100M/yr) and Blood Diamonds... silly me.
For prior art see The War on Drugs. Those ads after 9/11 linking buying a dimebag to supporting terrorists were another great example. It is sad to see this posted here where we all "get it" and aren't suckered into the same old FUD. Most however, politicians included, will take these statements at face value and begin to think accordingly.
And just like The War on Drugs it is a farce that ignores the realities of the world we live in in favor of making money on an outdated status quo.
---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.
Honestly, this is getting rediculous. Terrorist, infringing on our copyright laws. WHAT THE HELL. Well then, I may as well go ahead and admit I am a terrorist. I have downloaded countless materials that probably lead to the slaughter of little children. I mean heck, with my contribution to the piracy, why not consider me a key planner in 9/11? The government has done some stupid things as of late. But this...this takes the cake.
I think this is directed to the people who sell pirated DVDs on the street, not P2P users.
"Do I dare disturb the universe?"
...but what??? That's really all I can say...
Oh, and hey, news flash: copy protection and crap like that won't stop any organization large enough to fund terrorists... it'll screw the home user, but your money is still going to be just as fucking stolen. G'day.
webpage
Now, if only we could catch Al Qaeda's Osama Bin Laden in violation of copyright laws! Then he'd have to deal with the RIAA and the MPAA.... heaven help him!
I take issue with the word "terrorist", or at least its modern application in the US., but that is besides the point. I do take issue with law enforcement being more concerned about copyright violations than deadly explosions and attacks....... this seems to be what is going on. Am I missing something?
The Crimson Dragon
As a controversy goes on, the probability of a proported link between the controversial activity and terrorism approaches one.
At this rate, there surely will soon be links to terror from gay marriage, video game violence, and obesity.
Fucking socialist bastards.
This has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism includes state housing, healthcare, and welfare. What you are thinking of is right wing authoritarianism, also known as facism. Please use proper terminology when trying to state a flame war over political ideology.
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Support Indy Music. Buy
And prohibition of trading in alcoholic beverages during the 1920s boosted the power of organized crime.
Ever heard the Cheeky Girls? Point proven.
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
Socialist? How are RIAA, MPAA or any branch of your government "socialist"?
Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
With thunderous applause and nice little back-hands to the Trade Federation, i mean, RIAA/MPAA. How absolutely marvellous. So I guess there's no chance that Mickey Mouse will become public domain at any point in the next couple of centuries. I wonder how much more junk legislation can get passed due to "terrorism". We've already seen the patriot act, which everyone knows and loves. Now all the big business concerns are getting their little pet hates resolved as well. The ext time some "terrorist" event occurs, I wonder if the Senate will vote to give the Chancellor, (cough) I mean err President some 'emergency' powers. They do say that fact is often stranger than fiction. My concern is that maybe fact will become even 'darker' than fiction.
The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
That is hilarious!!!! loooooool
<sfx: crickets chirp>
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Why do we really care about terrorists breaking copyright laws? a) Enough non-terrorists in the US do it anyway that the number of people violating copyrights for terror purposes is negligible, and b) If they're terrorists, they're probably doing far worse than BitTorrenting files. Seriously.
I hate the one hundred and twenty character limit for signatures with an all-enveloping, all-destroying, incredible pass
Yup. Except it's not just the left wing. BOTH parties are authoritarian.
I'm old enough to remember when the Republicans wanted to "get government out of our lives."
i.e. before they had all the power in government.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
My GOD, I sure hope that doesn't lead them (Hezbollah) to even more horrific crimes like maybe listening to Brittany Spears MP3's downloaded from Kazaa!
Comparisons to terrorism have become like comparisons to Jews were in Nazi Germany
Well, okay.. it doesn't come as a big surprise that an organization that engages in a variety of criminal acts doesn't care about copyright laws either. Maybe they steal candy too. There's no point in making already illegal activities even more illegal. If they cared, they wouldn't do it anyway.
The article itself points out that they benefit from a range of different criminal activities. Further limiting domestic rights to fight foreign troublemakers doesn't seem to work.
see a Text Widget
Should be:
How are RIAA, MPAA or any other branch of your government "socialist"?
I totally agreed with your post until you started flaming socialist. What the bloody hell are you on about?
It's almost as daft as saying "socialists are all terrorists".
Think, man.
How are RIAA, MPAA or any branch of your government "socialist"?
Are they *supporters* of free market principles?
They are fucking socialists.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
How is terrorist copyright violation different from any other kind of copyright violation? Because they're possibly using it for funding?
From TFA: "Hezbollah depends on a wide variety of criminal enterprises, ranging from smuggling to fraud to drug trade to diamond trade in regions across the world, including North America, South America and the Middle East, to raise money."
Simple: If it's copyright holders worried about this, they've got bigger and far, far easier fish to fry (i.e. college students). If it's antiterror people worried about this, then they'll do their cutting-off-terror-funding thing, but it won't have anything to do with US IP laws. ANYTHING AT ALL.
So it's pretty clear that any new copyright enforcement laws that invoke terrorism are a blatant sham and an intellectual insult.
And this is ME saying this; I'm undecided in the whole MPAA/RIAA/copyright debate. I think they've got a right to defend their way of making money and it's not clear to me what the future holds. And I don't think they're necessarially wrong in suing the aforementioned grannies and college students.
But with this -- next person to use "terrorism" in a sentence arguing for stricter US IP laws needs a good slap in the face.
xkcd.com - a webcomic of mathematics, love, and language.
My guess is that in two years (or less?), your right to think freely will also be considered a danger as it might be linked to terrorism in some way (as of yet to be discovered)...
You might call this a troll post, but seriously guys (and gals), doesn't anyone in the US Government think rationally anymore? Or is that also somehow an act of terrorism? Sheesh.
It should come.
No wonder, of course organizations which use killing in an attempt to overtrow a rule to their favour will have no problem breaching copyright laws.
Even though laws should be restricted given this remarcable discovery, they might learn that they probably won't stop copying whatever they want, and nor will they stop killing.
But now the all copyright violaters are sided next to terrorists.
Of course.. Blue is blue.
but I decided I would bitch offtopic instead... how the hell am I supposed to varify thise?
http://images.slashdot.org/hc/00/fd93c1d13081.jpg
ter-ror-ism
Audio pronunciation of "terrorism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm) n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Sounds like RIAA to me.
"some associates of terrorist groups such as Hezbollah may be involved in copyright violations"
I'm sure they probably are. But I could also testify that huge amounts of US and European college kids are involved in copyright violations, some could also point to several successful US companies that are also invovled. The point is ?
Oh...of course, to whip up more anti copyright violation propaganda.
'Even though Stedman's evidence is circumstantial, his testimony comes as Congress is expected to consider new copyright legislation this year.
What a suprise. I wonder how much the **AA's payed him to supply this enlightening 'evidence'. They are not above giving little perks and bonuses to police officers after all.
What a scam.
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to patent and copyright violations."
with apologies to
Thomas De Quincey
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It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
I was looking at a list of wars that the U.S. has been involved in over the last 200+ years, and was surprised that the "war on terror" is the first war for U.S. freedom since the war of 1812.
Don't get me wrong, there was the civil war, which also dealt with issues of freedom, but a win for either side would result in a loss of freedom somewhere (north wins: states loose freedom, south wins: black people loose freedom)
Problem is, the U.S. is already turning the war to perserve freedom into a grab for power and dessimation of individual rights. After the Real ID act passed, now we are seeing a fake testimony of a soldier about terrorists and copyrights (even if they are pirating things, they aren't under U.S. law). The trend of fighting wars apart from freedom is continuing and it seems there's no way to avoid it. How could Roosevelt start such a communist society without being caught?
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Want something done in the current Bush administration? Just say the magic word, "Terrorists".
I don't want to come off as a troll but Michael Moore made a very good point when he showed how Americans were afraid of everyone (the cartoon bit) in Bowling for Columbine. Now, instead of african-americans it's the muslims. They are using these scare tactics to get away with all the things they want to do to control and (possibly) spy on everyone (a.k.a. the Patriot Act).
It's frightening.
Some guy claims that Hezbollah might be selling pirated software to fund terror - I wouldn't be surprised if this is true, we already know terror groups conduct other illicit activities to fund their murderous agenda such as drug dealing. That's the entire NEWS part of the story, everything else is just speculation by some dunce at CNET. Nobody is talking about jailing pirates as terrorists, nobody has called software piracy terrorism. Time to chill out.
Hey, Mr Cato linker, your group of purportedly small government thinkers has been supporting Republicans for the past decade. Who is doing more to expand the Federal government and its police powers than ever before? Why the Republican-controlled senate, house, and executive branch (Heil Mr. Bush). Before you start claiming socialist is a dirty word, maybe you should look at these things in practice rather than theory. In practice, Republican is a hell of a lot more dirty word. You guys and your big government cluster fuck fucking suck.
While we're at it, we could do a Search, replace on Socialist as well...
---
My Karma is fine
If Some Joe won't buy say... windows XP, even though he can afford it, and has no reason to keep his name off of sales records, do you really expect a terrorist to?
Congress approves another 50 billion to enforce copyright in the name of "War on Terror".
Ya ya, I'm joking. But WHAT THE FUCK!!?? ?The War on Terror" is supposed to be just that; Fighting Islamic extremist who wish to do America harm. But noooo, those inside the beltway of Washington DC are using this as an excuse to fleece the population with some notion of security in order to hold on to power.
Yes, I voted for Bush because I trust the Republican party with national security more then the "other" party. But fact is, all those maggots in washington do nothing but fight among eachother in senate in order to maintain power at the expensive of those to voted them to such positions in the first place.
Arrrghhhhhh. I sware. Fuck em, my face it going to explode I'm so pissed!!!
Life is not for the lazy.
" some associates of terrorist groups such as Hezbollah may be involved in copyright violations"
*gasp*
I'd bet very good money that some associates of major Christian religions may be involved in copyright violations, too, but that alone proves NOTHING about the evilness or wrongness of it.
Propaganda seems to work best when you leave the illogical conclusions unstated. That way the consumers of the propaganda wonder what the point was, and, assuming there is a point, try to fill in the blanks on their own which leads to deeper emotional investment. Thus simply stating that there may be a link between copyright violation and terrorists (which are clearly evil) leads to some people making the seemingly logical leap to the conclusion that either all copyright violations are terrorist motivated or that anyone who violates copyright must therefore be a terrorist. Since the person made this connection themselves, they are now likely to defend their position very emotionally in the future when the sad reality is that the whole message was worded specifically so that would happen and they didn't even notice.
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
...We finally figured out how we can take back our land that was given to Israel. It's quite simple actually, we just pirate Episode III, and the U.S. government will become so wrapped up in finding out who did it, they'll completely forget the Middle East actually exists.
Stalin was a socialist. Hitler was a socialist.
You're funny but you definitely need to read more books. Your lack of culture is appaling.
I'm old enough to remember when the Republicans wanted to "get government out of our lives."
And let their friends in corporations get into our lives. Not much different now. Plus ca change...
Did his task force catch some pretty large organizations? Evidently so.
Links to 'terrorism'? Tenuous at best, and then only as a funding source by 'sympathizers'. Much as the IRA was/is funded in part by 'sympathizers' in Boston.
Do these clowns need to be busted? Yes, of course. Flying to Lebanon with $230,000 in cash strapped to your body is more than a bit suspicious. But these operations are already illegal. We don't need further laws to catch these guys, just enforce the ones on the books already.
Yup. Except it's not just the left wing. BOTH parties are authoritarian.
Too true. How many bills had Bush vetoed?
I'm old enough to remember when the Republicans wanted to "get government out of our lives."
Yeah, they certainly enjoyed the Libertarian line until it came to their term in power.
Do you remember Reagan's acceptance speech?
"...Government *is* the problem"
How soon they forget.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
How many non-terrorists are involved in copyright infringement?
Now, how many non-copyright infringers are involved in terrorism?
Saying that copyright infringement is linked to terrorism is like saying breathing is linked to terrorism. Gee! Figure that one out. All terrorists breathe! That must be it!
Copyright infringment doesn't cause or support terrorism - it's just trendy.
Reason #6079870946321098708465498708407 why California should not be allowed to be a US state.
Help us build a better map!
John steps forward in Congress and states:
- we must forbid weapons because terrorists use them to kill our people
- we must forbid internet because terrorists use it to communicate and to learn how to make bombs
- we must forbid books because terrorists use it to gather knowledge
- we must forbid planes because terrorists use them to attack our country
- we must forbid cars because terrorists use them to put bombs in
only outlaws will participate in piracy. So naturally the organised crime groups got involved. It's the same reason crime gangs run the drug trade, it's the same reason the Mafia controlled alcohol distribution in the Prohibition, and abortions before they became legal. Whenever legitimate businesses can't do something that's very much profitable, the illegitimate ones will. Piracy funds terrorism because it is illegal, not the other way around.
I am trolling
You're funny but you definitely need to read more books. Your lack of culture is appaling.
So which of those two statements was untrue?
Was Hitler a socialist?
Was Stalin a socialist?
If not, then correct my understanding of their advocacy of State control.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Reliable testimony that proprietary liscensing schemes support terrorism!
/sarcasm >
Just as alchol fueled the brutal reign of Al Capone and his lawless mobsters, current copyright restrictions are helping support America's enemies.
<
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It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
parking illegally looks to be linked to terrorism. Congress to con sider anti-illegal parking bill that sends offenders to guantanimo bay for interrogation.
in other news, congress passes the 27th amendment saying gay marriage is linked to terrorism and as such all gays will be sent to guantanimo for questioning.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Well lets see, do they attack 3rd party providers and technology infrastructure that has nothing to do with copyright violations. Well .... Yes.
.... yes
... yes.
... yes.
Do they use strong arm bullying tactics, and threats to get their way. Well
Do they hate people who love freedom. Well
Do they they try to controll society by fear instead of facts. Well
They must be talking about themselves.
PS: Lets not use "their" terms. Piracy is where you board a ship and murder people, I think the appropiate term is information liberators.
This is bizzare, it seems to be suggesting that if you pirate copyrighted material you are a terrorist.
Terrorists also breathe air as well, lets put a stop to that too.
In related news I think there might be some possibility that one or more associates of the 535 members of Congress may be sort of involved in child molestation... or something.
Even though my evidence is circumstantial, nay... entirely nonexistant, my testimony comes as Congress is not expected to consider new congressional ethics legislation this year. An invocation of child abuse, the trump card of modern American politics, could ease the passage of the next major restriction of congressional powers.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Just as there's probably a link to cigarette smuggling, drugs, human trafficking, etc. Any criminal enterprise that's a potential source of operating funds has a possibility of involvement with terrorists. 'TERRORISM!' is law enforcement's equivalent to "RACISM!": a scary pejorative that's supposed to shut down all debate.
in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, there's a radio programme wherein the commercial block includes commercials for the local Republican, and the incumbent democrat is accused of killing along these lines:
"Last year Democratic Senator bought a SUV, and since then there has been two unsolved vehicular homicides involving Sports Utility Vehicles. Is he responsible? Do you want to take that risk?"
Actually, most of the radio commercials in that game are hilarious... And great gameplay.
Hey, Mr Cato linker, your group of purportedly small government thinkers has been supporting Republicans for the past decade.
I'm a Libertarian.
I don't support Republicans.
Does the fact that Democrats voted for the Patriot Act and for extending copyright coverage mean you support these legislative actions?
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
The comment that the war on terror is socialist is wrong. Its fashist thinking that wants to take away our civil rights with the bush & co. constant thinking of new ways to take away our rights and bring in new laws that get modify the copyright to copynot etc, all given the okay by Disney & co. These entities don't like left wing ideals like it's not right for companies to take all your rights away and how companies don't like p2p stuff because it could affect their massive proffits and how they want to squash p2p and substitute DRM technology such as the new Intel/microsoft/hollywood DRM enabled motherboards.
> Fucking socialist bastards.
Well, as I'm fairly liberal, I say each to their own, but what does that have to do with the topic?
this, it used to be something that would be a joke; simply not possible.
"If your a file sharer, your a Terrorist."
This is somethign that SNL would run or MAD.
Let's hope that terrorist hasn't become the 21'st century's magic word that lets anything happen.
Criminals commit crime! News at 11.
I guess according to you holland is ultra-right then?
*rolls eyes*
Who modded this a troll?
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Stalin was a communist
Hitler was a fascist
Geez those those failed history are doomed to relive it. Stalin centralized everything, and kept it for himself. Socialists don't limit it to one person. Tony blair can be kicked out of office.
Hitler wanted everybody but blond haired, blue eyed people dragged out into the street and shot. he considered the USA's treatment of native indians a good move, just without enough force.
I am driving to Canada see you at the end of the world Bash. Why Canada nobody every thinks to invade Canada.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
I say each to their own, but what does that have to do with the topic?
Socialists *love* to control as much of people's lives as possible using State power.
This is just one more example.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Bill: "We should really ban open source."
Random manager: "I know how to sway Congress, just tell them terrorists are using open source software, and they'll outlaw it in no time."
Bill: "Do they? Use open source, that is??"
Random manager: "I haven't met any terrorists, so I wouldn't know. The point is, they could."
Bill: "Good point."
I guess according to you holland is ultra-right then?
Socialism is not the privileged domain of the right.
Anyone who takes my money to pay for programs that would be better performed by charities (i.e., welfare) is also a socialist, despite their left-leaning politics.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
terrorist groups ... may be involved in copyright violations
In other words: Copyright laws SUPPORT terrorism.
And stronger copyright laws will be an even bigger support for terrorism.
Get rid of all IP laws and they couldn't make a dime out of it anymore, but that would also mean the creation of a free market and actually real capitalism.
Not gonna happen...
Fucking socialist bastards.
Yeah, social democracy always leads to such onerous copyright laws
Stalin was a socialist
Hitler was a socialist
Therefore, Stalin was Hitler
How soon before the Department of Homeland inSecurity clamps down on articles like this one?
My point is terrorists will use any means, legal or illegal, when it suits their purposes. Heck, if going on welfare and getting Viagra prescriptions then reselling them on the black market, they'd do that too.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
media pirates also rape babies and fry liviing kittens over an open fire I heard...
>> That is the driving force behind many of the
>> police powers that the state has frightened the
>> public into approving.
Nah, nobody has frightened "public" into approving anything. Public simply doesn't give a shit anymore, and even if it did, it would not be able to affect the voting outcomes in the House or Senate. Write to your representative, but please choose soft paper, because the guy is very likely to wipe his ass with whatever you wrote.
What we need to do now is abolish taxation, because there should be no taxation without representation.
Suck up 40% of my earnings to pay for social programs that *you* consider progressive and I consider you a socialist.
As a matter of fact, most political science texts agree with my interpretation.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
So they're going to pass a law putting tighter restrictions on piracy in the US? Right?
And they're using the fact that terrorists engage in piracy to make money to get this law passed? Right?
But I don't think they realise that almost all piracy in the US is free right now via the internet. Nobody makes money from that. Anyone who sells pirated DVDs in america probably isn't a terrorist and definitely isn't making much money.
terrorists make money from piracy in other countries. I've been to places like Lebanon, and you literally can't find legal copies of DVDs there unless you want to pay more than you'd pay in the US for them. If the US government wants to cut down terrorist funds from piracy, they'll have to pressure other (poorer) countries into enforcing copyright violation laws with more dilligence.
...in all the blather about this and other idiocy infringing on our rights and privacies... there's been studious willful ignorance of the left wing's similar tendencies. Except, they are even bigger abusers of the "for the children" FUD card.
I just wanted to point that out before a lot of anti-Bush crud started up yet again. Just remember Clinton and his cronies were no different, really. Political correctness, their own version of terrorists in the form of "right-wing hate groups", more political correctness...
I'll say it again, whoever wins, we lose. Next elections, we need to be looking to wipe out both Republicans and Democrats at the polls. Trouble is, the third parties out there are either left of Stalin, loopy wingnuts like Perot, or worse altogether than that. Sadly, the common public doesn't seem to have much interest in a party with a rights, privacy, and constitutionalist bent. In short, the only people truly belonging in government are those who really don't want to serve in their heart of hearts and the people are prone to electing whoever grubs and scrounges for it the hardest.
So I don't expect these copyright issues to change, I don't expect the undue influence of major corporations or noisy political groups to lessen. I really don't. Sadly... So now we have another reason to infringe on the civil rights of our people. Did we really need another reason? Did they need one? Do they ever?
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Was Hitler a socialist?
No, he was a fascist.
You keep using the word socialist, but I don't think that word means what you think it means.
p.s., please don't bring up stupid word games and say that Hitler's political party was called the National Socialist Party. It was no more socialist than the German Democratic Republic was a democratic republic.
Well, Slashdoter's know that Copyright Infringement != Terrorism, but for those who don't I have an answer.
If terrorists make money of of copyright infringement the answer is not to crackdown on copyright infringement because that only makes the infringement *more* valuable. I think we can all see how well the War on Drugs has gone. No, the solution is to take away the value of the infringement and the terrorists alleged profits by creating more balanced copyright laws.
If anything would push unwary citizens "into the hands of terrorists" it will be the broadcast flag. Soon, the only way to record "American Idol" in HD will be to have an al Qaeda terrorist come to your house and set them up with a Broadcast Flag-free Tivo.
How about Darth Vader? Is he a Socialist too?
Last time I mentioned that the MPAA/RIAA were trying to equate copyright violations with terrorism this guy "Big Al B" kept pooh-poohing it saying I was overreacting. At least here's some more concrete evidence. Since we are now in the never-ending "War On Terror," the easiest way for corporate America to get the government to stop activities it finds unprofitable is to equate them with terrorism. Expect more of this as we slide down the slope.
And remember the old truism - just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
rooooar
...most of these socialists call themselves Republicans.
Anyone else love those new tiny stickers with American flags that simply say, "ROME FELL"? Ask your left winger, and he'll say it was because of American arrogance. Ask your right winger, and he'll say it was because of gay people.
Thank God there aren't any gay terrorist groups!
In the same way is this classical example:
My mother cannot fly
A rock cannot fly
Therefore my mother is a rock.
Who says capitalism has anything to do with "free market principles"? Perhaps you should read some Marx (not because you'd agree with the conculusions, but it might give you add some insight to your simpleton worldview.)
i'm not sure what the fuss is all about. if you read the cnet article that is linked, its pretty unsubstantial and, well, pretty much says nothing. the sub headline reads "Counterfeit DVDs and cigarettes may be funding terrorists." Wow! thanks for the news-flash. terrorists may be recieving money from illegal activity. as has been pointed out in other posts, this shouldn't come as a shock to anyone. what shocks me is the response to a largely uninformative article. but then again, i guess i am now just as guilty as the rest. oh well, guess i'll go engage in some form of legal commerce so the terrorists don't win.
" Hitler wanted everybody but blond haired, blue eyed people dragged out into the street and shot."
Uh are you sure? Hitler being a brown eyed black haired person might have objected to that.
... is getting in my nerves. Why should the big corporations here have the right to meddle into our copyright laws, and then slap the name "terrorism" in the justification of doing so? The problem with these copyright laws that the MPAA/RIAA have been pushing is that they are forgetting our (the citizen's) end of the stick. They have been increasing the duration of copyrights and patents to the point that most of us would be dead before we see Mickey Mouse in the public domain (since they keep extending it). They have been increasing the punishments for people who have already been illegally copyright infringing (since when does uploading a movie to the Internet warrant a 3-year prison sentence?), and illegalizing things that should be under fair-use (e.g., the DMCA; why should the government tell me what to do with my DVDs in my own private use?). The politicians are ignorant about technical issues, the voters are ignorant about the politicians, and they're letting the corporations run amok. But where is our public domain? Where is our "fair use"? Where is our freedom?
It's like our government is being run by the Socialist Party and the Fascist Party. Both of them don't care about liberty and both don't want a small government. All they want to do is to continue manipulating the public until they reach their logical goals: a huge, authoritarian government. The only difference is that the socialists would justify it in the name of "helping the poor" and the fascists would justify it in the name of "moral values." Both would justify it in the names of "protecting the children" and "defending this country against terrorism."
Come on Libertarians and Greens. They will have to win the 2008 election if we ever hope for this country to be saved by this rampant corporatism and the move toward totalitarianism.
I'm not saying that we should, but this kind of logic show a lack of an understanding of cause and effect. Such people are dangerous to have in power.
Wikileaks, no DNS
Before the Soviet Union collapsed, everything evil was blamed on communists, and any response, no matter how stupid, was deemed acceptible in order to fight communism. And it "worked". The Soviet Union's collapse occured after the US did all sorts of stupid things in the name of fighting communism, therefore the fall of communism *must* have been brought about by America's direct intervention!
Fighting terrorism is no different. And I quote:
Homeland Security is a bigger threat to the American way of life than anything Osama bin Forgotten can come up w/. Feel free to do something about it...
[o]_O
You keep using the word socialist, but I don't think that word means what you think it means.
"Depending on the context, the term socialism may refer either to these ideologies or any of their many lineal descendants. While these cover a very broad range of views, they have in common a belief that feudal and capitalist societies are run for the benefit of a small economic elite and that society should be run for the common good. "Socialist" ideologies tend to emphasize economic cooperation over economic competition; virtually all envision some sort of economic planning (many, but by no means all, favor central planning). All advocate placing at least some of the means of production -- and at least some of the distribution of goods and services -- into collective or cooperative ownership."
No word games, mate.
Definintions.
Hitler was a socialist in his domestic politics but not his economic policies.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
You're confusing economic and political systems.
China = capitalism + no democracy
Sweden = socialism + democracy
Neither kind of political or economic system has a monopoly on the other. Hitler and Stalin, acquired total, unquestionable control over their political systems, which they promptly used to kill everyone in sight. If a democratically decides to give subsidy payments to the poor, this has nothing to do with that. Get a grip.
you're fighting terrorism! Don't take the chance that you're legitimately purchased DVDs are in fact funding terrorists. Get out there and seed one for Uncle Sam!
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You're confusing economic and political systems.
No, my critics are.
Hitler was a socialist when it came to poltical control - just like China.
Stalin was a political and economic socialist, just like North Korea.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
You really don't get it, do you?
Here, for you:
Sweden = socialist = freedom for everyone.
USA = fascist plutocraty = freedom for the rich.
Saying that Sweden and the USA are the same political system is just moronic.
well if those bad terrorists use copyright violation for funding the logical step is to abandon copyright -> no more money to be made.
So let me get this straight.
An international group of terrorists, dead-set on killing as many Americans as they can before their time is up, is partaking in a crime which, until recently, wasn't even that big a concern of the government. Furthermore, the crime they're committing is only a crime in the United States.
I have a hard time believing someone is going to commit copyright crimes when they're attempting a much, much bigger crime. It's like organized crime: you don't see them pulling off grocery store robberies: it's too risky and doesn't give a large enough return. Same for the terrorist: financial gain means nothing to them. They're all about that 77 virgin thing.
IIRC, seems most of the 9/11 terrorists were all pretty straight-shooters while they were here in the US, too.
Not only that, but it would seem they'd want to try and remain as low-profile as possible. Selling pirated materials would only bring attention to them - whether they're selling here or making the stuff overseas. It would be just one more trail to follow to find them.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Yep, just like Bush is for a small national government. Just because you say you're doing something doesn't make it true.
...that they allow this sort of idiocy to take place in their name?
Come on, USA, get it together already.
You still suck.
Truly, you're the posterchild of the Bush voters.
LAPD testified against the .50 Barrett rifle using it as a prop. The level of "expertise" from the officers testifying was pathetic as evidenced below. Personally I believe the cop is not an expert, is just a normal guy, and may have been influenced by various gov't/industry figures.
.50 caliber rifle in your city. I was allowed to briefly address the council. The tone of the discussion was mostly emotionally based, so the facts that I attempted to provide were ineffective to the extent they were heard at all. The council voted to have the city attorney draft an ordinance to ban the .50, and further, to instruct the city's representatives in Sacramento and in Washington D.C. to push for bans at their respective levels.
.50 cal rifle. It was the centerpiece of the discussion. As you know, there have been no crimes committed with these rifles, and most importantly, current California law does not allow the sale of the M82AI in the state because of its detachable magazine and features that make it an "assault weapon." This rifle was being deceptively used by your department. The officer portrayed it as a sample of a currently available .50 cal rifle, available for sale to the civilians of Los Angeles. One councilman even questioned how this rifle was available under current laws, but as I stated, facts were ineffective that day.
.50, to consider the liberties of the law-abiding people and our mutual coexistence, and to change your department's position on this issue
Regrettably, the same material has been presented to your city council. I personally attended the council meeting in Los Angeles regarding attempts to bar ownership of the
At that council meeting, I was very surprised to see an LAPD officer seated front and center with a Barrett 82A1
Your officer, speaking for the LAPD, endorsed the banning of this rifle and its ammunition. Then he used the rifle for photo ops with the Councilmen each of whom, in handling the firearm, may have been committing a felony. I was amazed.
Since 1968, with the closing of the U.S. Springfield Amory, all of the small arms produced for the various government agencies are from the private sector. Every handgun, rifle or shotgun that law enforcement needs comes from this firearms industry. Unless the City of Los Angeles has plans of setting up its own firearms manufacturing, it may need to guard the manufacturing sources it has now.
When I returned to my office from Los Angeles, I found an example of our need for mutual cooperation. Your department had sent one of your 82A1 rifles in to us for service. All of my knowledge in the use of my rifle in the field of law enforcement had been turned upside down by witnessing how your department used yours. Not to protect and serve, but for deception, photo opportunities, and to further an ill-conceived effort that may result in the use of LA taxpayer monies to wage losing political battles in Washington against civil liberties regarding gun ownership.
Please excuse my slow response on the repair service of the rifle. I am battling to what service I am repairing the rifle for. I will not sell, nor service, my rifles to those seeking to infringe upon the Constitution and the crystal clear rights it affords individuals to own firearms.
I implore you to investigate the facts of the
This guy is way out there
Sweden = socialist = freedom for everyone.
40% of your income is spent on your behalf by the State.
That isn't freedom.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
And, as we all know, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a fully democratic state - oh, wait, it's not? Guess you can call something by a name that isn't truthful.
And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
Saying that National Socialism is the same thing as Socialism is like saying a fire is the same thing as a firetruck. There is a fairly obvious distinction.
Just because two words occur in a phrase that doesn't imply any that the words in the phrase are equivalent to the phrase on their own. This is the nature of a phrase and the phrase that Hitler chose to describe his political party was National Socialism for which Nazi was an acronym.
Any more questions son?
Everybody is using terrorist as an excuse for their agenda, let me do the same !
:). I might have changed one things or another (**)
Since we all know that most terrorist are extremist more or less coming from the fanatic extrem, and in majority today are people disliking alcohol usage and women "equality" with men (and particulary the sight of clad women, the horror, the horror), be them christian or islamic terrorist, we should force with a new law, every men in all country to go sit before their house door, drink a lot of alcohol, and every women should walk by nude. Every patriot will drink beer and oogle passerby , but terrorist and unpatriotic bastard will find themselves unable to support the sight and will surrender or stand out in the crowd(*).
(*) ok I wrote that down from memory. Source is a joke mail you probably now
(**) nonetheless I still think this is a good law who is ready to support it ?
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Just because you say you're doing something doesn't make it true, but it is strong evidence.
More strong evidence: Hitler's nationalization of German industry in the years leading up to the war.
Perhaps you should read some Marx (not because you'd agree with the conculusions, but it might give you add some insight to your simpleton worldview.
I read both Marx and his philosophical predecessor, Hegel.
I do Dialectics.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
The 9/11 terrorists trained with pirated copies of Flight Simulator!
Circumcision is child abuse.
Joe Stalin was dictator and he got his education in Tiflis Theological Seminary. Stalin used communist party to get into power and then killed all hard line commie competitors like Leon Trotsky during Great Purge. After that the proper name of his rule was Stalinism
Dyslexics have more fnu.
Fascism is neither left nor right - it's a combination of the 2, and the opposite of libertarianism, which is also, you could say, a combination of left and right.
The left is about more social freedoms and less economic freedoms. The right is the opposite of that, more economic freedom, but less social freedom. Libertarian is freedom everywhere, and facism is freedom nowhere. Nearly all western nations are somewhere in between all of those extremes, but you can only talk about it relative to other countries.
This particular issue is about removing our rights to freely trade information, so yes, it is fascist.
Copyright holders are the terrorists!
Oh...wait...
Don't forget, Canada is socialist too. You just wait until we get our war machine rolling, then you'll pay!
P.S. Socialism is an economic paradigm, it has little to do with government besides the fact that government decides which direction they decide to develop the economy into. As another poster correctly pointed out, you're looking for the word 'fascism'. It is possible to be both socialist and fascist at the same time. Mussolini and Hitler were both. Stalin, however, most certainly wasn't and to suggest that he was is simply embarassingly ignorant.
Random and weird software I've written.
The word "terrorist" start to sound in US politics now like the word "Jew" sounded in Nazi Germany, "imperialist" sounded in the Communist countries.
Slapping the term on somebody or someone signals the beginning of the witchhunt, which was never criticized, since the government had blanche card against "the Jews", "the imperialists" and now "the terrorists".
Future generations always asked the question: how come, people did not realize this? How come people were able to just stand by?
Well, you see... it's not as difficult as it sounds like.
Watch carefully yourself, how you become silently a collaborator to madness. We are standing on the slippery slope again, as so many times in history.
"Socialism," by which you mean some sort of statism, and capitalism are inseparable. The origin of the modern state is indistinguishable from the formation of modern capitalism. Capitalism requires a labor force that can be moved around, made abstract, is not too tied to one way of living or another, has a certain basic education. Capitalism in its modern form requires considerable state infrastructure to create currency, manage trade policy, control monetary policy, provide infrastructure for transportation, to prop the system up when it is about to break (see the airline bail-outs) and the like. The creation of the modern citizenry that owes primary loyalty to a nation-state is completely in line with the creation of a consumer/producer who sells his work in the market place. There is no capitalism without socialism.
You are all socialists in that regard. The question is a matter of a degree, and who gets "serviced" by these government institutions. The government is really a whole network of institutions, and just who those institutions work for is often up for grabs. Many conservatives are quite happy to evoke the idea of "laissez-faire" after they hide or ignore the ways in which the interests of the powerful are being buttressed by the state. When the state provides any services to the not-powerful, though, it gets tarnished as "socialism."
If the **AA spends wipes out common piracy, people won't be getting their free movies through BT, Kazaa or whatever. By the laws of human desire, the next cheapest way to get this content would be the knockoff DVDs right? Won't kicking people off of common piracy just make professional piracy more profitable?
Therefore fighting piracy funds terrorism.
Of course, this is a simplification, but offers a starting point. Next:
Stalin was a socialist. Hitler was a socialist.
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? The fact that "nazi" comes from "national-socialism" or that Lenin and Stalin claimed to have "embraced and extended" Marx's theories is circumstantial for the end result - everything must start somewhere. You might as well say that Napoleon was a republican, since he begun by serving the French Republic.
Now look up those definitions on your own if you don't trust these, but to spell it out for you: Hitler was the head of a fascist regime in its purest form ('extreme right wing' some would call it). Stalin was the head of an authoritarian regime whose ideology is usually known as Marxism-Leninism (or 'extreme left wing') - some people would say it was not communism, but a perverted form, while others will argue that it was indeed communism - and the logical conclusion of any attempt to follow the theoretical sequence capitalism -> socialism -> communism to its end.
To go back to the original point, in practice there is not a whole lot of difference in form between the two extremes, but you have to bear in mind that socialism means state ownership and in the extreme (communist) case no private property, while fascism means state control, which is a little less. Also, in theory socialism does not advocate an authoritarian government, but it can easily fall into one when pushed. Now, what we have here is neither
True, but you could simply say it in order to gain favor. And nationalizing industry right before you enter a war is a pretty good idea anyway, since you need to optimize for high production rates.
Pardon me, but the Cato in your Siggy -- Cato the Younger, right?
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
they are not socialists. they are criminals.
Many people, especially from the US, always have to call everything they don't like "socialism", even it has nothing to do with it.
"This secret meetgin is now called to order, first order of business, copyright violation."
"I propose that we find a way to call IP violators terrorists"
*General sounds of agreement follow*
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
wanted for bombing a civilian airliner by the Venezuelan authorities, in which case the USA is happy to protect you.
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
What? You're fucking kidding me, right?
"Nazi" stands for "Nationalsozialismus" in German: IE, "National Socialist". Hitler proposed and put into place many, many different social welfare programs. Was he a fascist? Yes. But that doesn't negate the fact that he was a socialist.
Socialism, like communism, puts the decisions of the populace under the government's mantle of control regardless of whether or not the individuals want such 'protection'. Both socialism and communism draw their theology from the same marxist books. If you've bothered to pay attention at all to the last 100 years of history, much of the socialist rhetoric around 1900-1910, and the communist rhetoric leading up to WWII (both in the USA) was very similar to both the "party lines" of the Democratic party (and some of the Republican policies as well, actually), and the Soviet agenda.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
When you say "political socialism" you seem to mean totalitarian dictatorship.
When you say "economic socialism" you mean what everyone else in the world means with the word socialism.
It seems to me that you confound the two (totalitarianism and "economic socialism") when you don't bother with your "political" or "economic" labels.
THEY'VE CROSSED THE FUCKING LINE!
A guy walks into a bar... well, I forgot the joke, but the punchline is that he's an alcoholic.
By the same logic, if there might be musicians funding terrorists then stronger copyright protection might help terrorists.
Hitler also called himself a Hero , And he was called by some people a strong wise leader ... Doesn't mean he was one.
Stalin was no socialist either , He just used the guise the russian communist regime was socialist and communist in name alone . Mcarthyism is still strong i see
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
These days the industry seems to make no distinction at all between the two groups, at least when it comes to talking to congress and the media.
I mean think: If they were really concerned about loss of money, their major campaign would be against the vendors that sell counterfit goods, not the end users. There hasn't been much research done on P2P, but the one empirical study that has been done by Harvard and UNC showed that P2P has no stasticaly significant affect on music sales. So one would think they'd be after the counterfitters with a vengence, while doing some research on the P2P phenomena to see if it is really harmful, and how they can turn it to their advantage.
Instead we see massive campaigns against online traders, we see commercials, we see them giving night vision systems to projectionists to look for DV cams (really), we see them filing lawusits left and right without checking their facts first and so on. It's pretty clear from their actions that they see P2P as bad or worse than counterfitting, and they are willing to spend as much or more to shut it down.
Thus I have no doubt P2P will be included in this. Not because there's any actual link to terrorism, but because playing the terrorism card is a great method for getting your way with government these days.
I wrote this a few months ago. .gov and .mil have found it interesting:
http://cryptogon.com/docs/pirate_insurgency.html
-Kevin
"Socialist" is not the word you are looking for.
:)
There was another political philosophy, developed by Bennito Mussolini, that fits what you are trying to describe much better.
Bennito Mussolini, when asked to describe his philosophy, described it as follows:
"Fascism could better be referred to as Corporatism, because it is a system whereby the Corporations and the State share power."
Fascism is a system whereby the state directs the overall direction of the economy, but leaves the ownership of industry in a select few private hands. Those who own factories that prefer to work in a strategic direction other than that mandated by the State, will be arrested, and their property siezed and given to private owners who will get with the program. While such a system may bear superficial resemblance to a "free market" system because of private ownership, it is not a free market system because of the cooertion placed upon the putative "owners" by the State.
In addition (see parrent poster's comments on "Socialism" below), many people become confused by the fact that another well-known Fascist government, that of 1930s-1940s Germany, was run by a political party known by the accronym "NSDAP", which stood for National Socialist German Worker's Party. Despite the name, the NSDAP (Nazis) were not Socialists, but modeled their political party very closely after Mussolini's Fascist Party.
The primary reason for the Nazi Party having the word "Socialist" in it's name, was that it's Leader and the person most closely affiliated with the Nazi party in modern memory, Adolf Hitler, was not a founding member of that party.
He was originally a veteran of the first world war, who was sent by the German Army to spy on the small bavarian group that was calling itself the "National Socialist German Worker's Party", because socialist groups had been fomenting rebellion in the post world war one chaos in Germany. Hitler reported back that the group was no threat, and that the name they had chosen was a misnomer.... and then proceded to use his gift of oratory to seize control of the small group and expand it.
The group, despite it's name, was avowedly anti-Socialist and anti-Communist... they also later became involved in some unpleasantness involving mass genocide and the almost complete destruction of large parts of Europe.
So, to correct your statement in the post above mine, please say "Fucking Fascist Bastards!" when refering to the RIAA and MPAA, as "Fascist" is the word that applies, not Socialist.
Thanks
I think the terms "left" and "right" have really started to hinder American political discussion. It makes people think about these views as linear, when they really aren't. People want to model political views like this:
far left --- left --- moderate --- right --- far right
While that's a nice and neat model, it really doesn't correspond with reality.
If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
You spelt capatalist wrong. Here's a hunt, it doesn't start with socialism.
OK, so the terrorists are going to start raising money to buy an atomic bomb by selling bootleg copies of Eminem and Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith.
Sounds scary, doesn't it? It's chilling to think our own shitty media could be used against us in such a horrible fashion. Unfortunately, DRM and voluntary media restrictions are never going to work - the terrorists are going to make money selling us illegal "DRM Free" devices so we can watch bootlegs akin to the way people steal cable. And when New York gets attacked again, we'll all look at our bootleg copies of NOW That's What I Call Music 16 and know that we ourselves gave $5 to terrorists.
But there is hope. There is only one solution that works: remove all copyright laws. If the terrorists have to deal in a market where all IP is available absolutely for free, there will be no money to be made in selling copyrighted material!
Think about it: Abdelkarim Hussein Mohamed Al-Nasser sets up shop with his secret disguise in Phoenix. He's got all his copies of the Matrix trilogy set up, ready to be sold to the latest nerdy dupe walking down the street. But little does he know his plan will fail. Said nerdy dupe walks by and says to himself, "Now why is someone selling copyrighted material on the street? I can just download that off Bittorrent!" One 911 call later, Al-Nasser is arrested, arrainged, convicted, and drawn and quartered.
America is safer.
Now doesn't it seem as though our IP laws were but a meager price to pay for the saftey and security of our country?
Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
This is the most brain-dead political interpretation that I have ever seen. Since when does taking money from the rich to give it to the poor mean "everyone is free?" To paraphrase your last sentence: Saying that only the rich have freedom in the U.S. is just moronic.
It was certainly good on the short term. Man, they got all KINDS of fucking wiretapps, left and right. It had it's use.
It is time to go back to the more difficult method. I know it's difficult. Figure out another fucking way. Try actually putting up a fucking border with Mexico, instead of the signs you have right now. Try breaking up the blacks and mexicans and asians, so they can't associate with just their own "race" and form gangs.
America needs a lot of social work. The Patriot Act was a luxury, but that luxury is over now.
Get back to the grind.
(also, these graphic anti-script letters are fucking tough for ME to read. Christ! Although, if I blur my vision a little bit, it makes it easier...)
wtf has the right got to do with socialism? socialism is left wing you fuckwit.
He was also likely a Jew. That was what made his crusade to purge the world of anyone that wasn't blonde haired and blue eyed so ironic. You might wanna look that word up. Rather than objecting to it, he started it, and then just excluded himself from the list of people to be shot.
I prove my case. Among The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party were:
- 11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
- 13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
- 14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
- 15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
- 18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.
When Hitler had his power he abolished unemployment in half year. Is that socialist enough.Dyslexics have more fnu.
I can see it now, Jack Bauer will be called in to interrogate the cybergeek users of bittorrent in Los Angeles. Jack: (shoots suspect in leg)"WHERE ARE THE TERRORISTS!!?" Geek: "I DON'T KNOW! I WAS ONLY DOWNLOADING STAR WARS EPISODE 3!!" Jack: "NOT GOOD ENOUGH!" (proceeds to break geek's fingers)
Stalin was the ruler of the USSR, the United Soviet SOCALIST Republics.
Hitler was the leader of the National SOCIALIST party in Germany.
Both men may have been many things (murderous thugs for example) in addition to being socialists, but that doesn't change the fact that they were socialists.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Feudalism is not free market... therefore, it must be socialist?
Oligarchy isn't free market... therefore, it must be socialism?
If socialism is not capitalism, that doesn't mean that everything that is not capitalism is socialism. The logical error should be pretty damn obvious. Draw a freaking Venn Diagram.
Communism and fascism are the same thing?
Idiot.
(And an NRA sig. Loser.)
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Linking copyright infringement to terrorism is just as silly as calling the Iraqi resistance insurgents.
If the Iraqi insurgents really were insurging, then the fighting would be on the borders of the country, not smack dab in the middle, but I guess being logical about things isn't good politics...
Oh well, what the hell...
No, he was a fascist.
No, Hitler was indeed a socialist, specifically a national (rather than international) socialist. It was Mussolini who was the fascist.
You keep using the word fascist, but I don't think that word means what you think it means. Hitler's domestic policies certainly weren't fascist, they were national socialist, in that the purpose of the state was to serve the volk collectively. Fascism, on the other hand, demands that the volk serve the state (Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato.).
Both are forms of collectivism and tend to be authoritarian, but the national socialism of Hitler is clearly a variety of socialism, with little to distinguish it from other forms of socialism other than racism.
I'm old enough to remember when the Republicans wanted to "get government out of our lives."
That was before the christian-right took over the Republican party. Now the government has to be involved with your personal life because if it isn't you are going to sin.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
While not the rule, it is certianly the trend that political socialism and economic socialism tend to capitulate and either collapse outright into a plain dictatorship, or into more of a communistic state.
This is happening to Britian (and most of Europe, actually) right now. Their economies are in the shitter and they're seeing increases in all forms of government restriction and regulation. Sure, they've got universal healthcare, but they've got massive unemployment problems. Why work if you don't have to, eh?
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
There's a two-pronged attack against freedom going on in the US. The government is attacking the right to privacy, and the copyright cartel is attacking the right to free exchange of information. Is it really any surprise that they'd eventually figure out how to work together?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
If the relative authorities are focusing on linking terrorist to copyright violations then it should be clear that either their priorities are really screwed up or they are running out of things to call WMDs...
I witnessed more terrorism from the US government and the anthrax threat it held over the news media to help it beat war drums than the taking down of a set of buildings that were the focal point representation of wrongful world economic manipulations.(re: trillion dollar bet)
That's a lot of money to try and say it wasn't connected or influencial to things like vc dotcom boom and bust, Enron, Worldcom, WTC/pentagon/white house attack...
You do someone wrong, it's only reasonable to expect retailation..
But when you fabricate enough lies, you do tend to get out of touch with proper priorities.
Which is exactly what this is about.
It has been discovered that there is an extremely strong link between terrorism and dihydrogen monoxide. 100% of terrorists use dihydrogen monoxide on a regular basis. To protect the USA from terrorism, anyone in possession of dihydrogen monoxide has to be prosecuted.
---------
There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
See, this is actually a stroke of brilliance that Dick Cheney came up with, Karl almost spit up his half finished steak when Cheney first blurted it out. It's pure genious.
See, the bottom line for us Americans these days is shareholder value. That's what all of this stuff is really all about. We've got to maximize shareholder value --at all costs. This is rule number one.
Okay, well George in on track with the oil thing, but we needed somebody to focus on what's going down with this outsourcing. It's really shaking up a number of institutional investors. So Cheney just totally pulled this one off the bottom of the deck at lunch the other day.
Out of the blue he just goes: "I got it! P2P equals terrorism equals outsourcing to Texas!"
Well that was the shocker that had poor Karl reaching for his napkin. But as he continued we all began to see his genius at work. He's like some kind of mystic when he gets these grand visions of his.
The gist of it is simplicity itself. We tie in P2P with terrorism and that finally gives us a real mission for the DHS and FBI to earn their butter here at home. We lock up a few hundred thousand of these little thieving punks and put them to work in prison as IT specialists as part of their rehab. Hell yeah they've got the skills. The problem is they're greedy little fuckers who think the world owes them something. Well, we'll take care of that with a little state run boot camp. And meanwhile, we'll turn the tables on those Indians and Russians and all the rest, hell they'll be outsourcing to us.
Look at how many wins we can rack up here. We stop piracy dead in its tracks. Get all these punk troublmakers under control and reverse the trade balance all in one blow.
In fact, we can't afford not to do it.
Pure genious.
What's in a name? Absolutely nothing. North Korea is the "People's Democratic Republic" of Korea, but does that make it one?
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
the irony is that you actually spelled capitalist wrong
While that's a nice and neat model, it really doesn't correspond with reality.
Too true. I always find it interesting that "conservative" and "liberal" are not opposite ideas. They are opposed on a few issues, allied on a few, and just don't apply to a lot of issues. But, since we feel the need to apply a dichotomy to things, so that we have team spirit and us-and-them, we have cast these two terms into opposing roles.
I remember a roommate, who was out stumping for the Republican party, admitting that he was a classic liberal. Personally, I might have been a republican, if they were still conservatives, but instead I find myself opposed to them for not being liberal enough anymore. These days I side with whoever I think will fuck up the country least, which generally means whoever will do the least. I think having congress and the presidency as the same party is a very bad thing, since they seem to have decided that 51% is a majority and a mandate. Look at how pissed they are that they have to get 60% approval once in a while. I always figured public policy should be aimed at the 85th percentile.
Remember on Usenet when a debate was declared dead the moment someone was compared to Hitler or the Nazis?
Welcome to the new Internet, rational debate stops the moment anything gets compared to a terrorist. Its used as a catch all "I think its bad so it must be the worst thing ever".
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Should there be a new addition to Godwin's law? Maybe the person who brings up terrorism in relation to something seemingly unrelated automatically destroys all credibility in the thread/conversation/hearing. This seems similar to someone (I forget who) in the EU saying that not voting in the EU constitution would bring back Nazi-like groups and a new Holocaust.
"Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation." - Richard Feynman
Someone really needs to put up a web site shaming everyone who's used 9/11 to advance their own interests or to demonize the opposition as terrorists.
From The Demagogue Files...
"Interpol believes there is a significant link between counterfeiting and terrorism in locations where there are entrenched terrorist groups."
--Jack Valenti, MPAA Chief (Source: senate.gov)
"There are also indicators that some associates of terrorist groups may be involved in IPR [Intellectual Property Right] crime"
--Lieutenant John Stedman [View PDF], Sheriff's Department, County of Los Angeles (source: senate.gov)
"Anti-spammers are terrorists at heart and attack websites and email accounts of companies wishing to bring their products and services to the general public via email, an enviromentally sound, REMARKABLE medium!"
--StealthLaunch/PopLaunch, mass-marketing firm
(source: the Register)
The National Education Association is "a terrorist organization"
--Rod Paige, Education Secretary
(source: usatoday.com)
"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."
Rev. Pat Robertson, Religious Leader (source: commondreams.org)
[Discussing liberal Federal judges]
"Over 100 years, I think the gradual erosion of the consensus that's held our country together is probably more serious than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings"
[Followup question asks if liberal judges really are the worst threat America has faced in 400 years - worse than Nazi Germany, Japan and the Civil War...]
"Yes, I really believe that,"
Rev. Pat Robertson, Religious Leader (source: nydailynews.com)
[When asked about abortion in the US]
"I think after September 11th the American people are valuing life more and realizing that we need policies to value the dignity and worth of every life. And President Bush has worked to say, let's be reasonable, let's work to value life, let's try to reduce the number of abortions, let's increase adoptions. The fundamental difference between us and the terror network we fight is that we value every life. It's the founding conviction of our country, that we're endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights, the right to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Unfortunately our enemies in the terror network, as we're seeing repeatedly in the headlines these days, don't value any life, not even the innocent and not even their own," she added."
Karen Hughes, Bush Campaign advisor (source: cnn.com)
"It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States"
--Dick Cheney, Vice President of the US (source: about.com)
"America's under attack and so are we."
--Kenneth Lay, CEO, Enron (source: Enron: The Smartest Guys In the Room)
Anyone got
independent, as opposed to 'legitimate corporate sponsored', material?
...) when they pry it from my cold dead fingers?
are you gonna be saying,
"they can have ny guitar(mivie camera, recorder,
than the tobaco producers association.. companies, whatever..
Neither guns nor cigarettes are going to be outlawed.
You made the common error of backing up your claim with facts. Please re-read the posting FAQ. Well-supported arguments are not allowed here.
If true, all that does is demonstrate further that everybody does it, and harsher laws will in the end only provoke a harsher backlash when the law finally catches up to reality.
When everybody violates a law through natural action, that just means the law is out of step with reality. The law either reflects an extreme ideology or serves a special interest out of proportion to concern for general welfare.
[b.belong('us') for b in bases if b.owner() == 'you']
Being in U.S. Army, one of the interesting briefings we were given recently was that of protecting civil liberties. It spoke about several times in the recent past in which a supposed threat appeared to our nation, and our freedom of speech, due process, etc. were damaged from the nation's fear of the enemy, and how we should not just let it happen again.
It's something I had never thought about before, and I think it is amazing to see it happening in front of me, and not on some slides about what happened during the Cold War, or Vietnam, or World War II. When governments are given power outside of their proper jurisdictions to combat real threats, those powers will inevitably be used for unintended and improper purposes.
He would have gotten along well with Stalin.
Point taken.
Heh. Pumping irony builds puns of steel!
(this is notany not-loggen-in btw.)
http://politicalcompass.org/\
they have a nice 2d political compass for you (autheritarian > libertarian and left > right iirc
In Denmark, we have a little over half a dozen political parties in Parliament. Even though it is true that most people hold that 'their wing' is better than the other, all but the most populist parties (ie. the three largest) try to differentiate themselves as much as possible from the rest.
Attn: Mr. Sheik Osama Bin Laden
Dear Sir,
Your IP address 259.0.0.1 has been detected sharing on the 'Pear To Pear' program by the name of 'e-Jihad', the following files which have been determined by our trained human staff to be copyrighted works or material by music and motion picture artists:
ROT13 email encryptor_decryptor.com
Reparations of $1000 per song and $2000 per movie file hitherto listed are hereby requested before the 30th of next month, or our lawyers shall begin precedings.
Copyright infringement is a crime.
With all the people, talent, and funding by people that care (for advertising), surely a week of boycotting DVD/video purchases and movie theaters could make a statement. I don't know what would be involved in setting it up, but if even 5% of the buyers pitched in, it would send a message.
I'm looking for honest opinions: Would it work?
Flying cars, AI, Cybernetics
(Blade Runner, RoboCop, Total recall)
Instead of that what we have?
The classic case where the government became the lapdog of massive corporations and industries and the case where the government calls a terrorist anybody who don't agree with their corrupted attitude.
(Blade Runner, RoboCop, Total recall)
What a bummer!
What's next? Ill learn that coffee is people?
Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
Write your congressperson.
Write them a letter. With an envelope. And a stamp. It carries a tremendous amount of weight (it really does). Don't use a form letter. Don't type it. Don't call them. Write a legible, clean and concise letter expressing your viewpoint. Tell them that you do not agree with the upcoming changes to copyright laws. While you're at it, tell them you don't appreciate parts of the PATRIOT act becoming legitimate law either. Tell them that the erosion of your rights in the name of fighting "terrorists" isn't something that you're willing to tolerate anymore.
Instead of whining and bitching to people who--by and large--agree with you, write to someone who can make a difference.
When you're finished with that, write your senator as well.
I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.
Ah! A libertarian! Don't just call them socialists, call them fascists. You know you want to.
Actually, the purest fascist state was Italy. Don't confuse fascism and nazism, it's two different things (although they can very well complement each other, as demonstrated by Nazi Germany).
Actually, Stalin was a Communist. More precisely Bolshevik.
Communists not only banned the Socialist "social democratic" parties, they actually executed their leaders. In some countries, after the Stalin era ended, some of the newly defined Communist parties started to call themselves "Socialist" again.
Because in real life nothing is as nicely black and white as in Starwars.
It only shows, how labels are nothing else but part of political manipulation.
The "terrorist" label is not different, as you can see it unfolding right in front of your eyes.
As in the past, the best question to get to the root: who's interest is it?
In case of labelling IP violation as part of terrorism is clearly the interest of the American entertainment industry. They realized that the power of the Bush administration is based on the "defending the nation against evil terrorism" political demagogy. They simply want to exploit the situation, hoping that linking IP violation to terrorism will help them to pass laws in the US legislation.
It's a win/win situation for Hollywood: they benefit from Bush by getting these laws passed and they will benefit from the fall of Bush, when they will release their blockbusters about life under the crazy political are of Bush.
Terrorists eat! Therefore, eating is evil! :(
But then again, that may be a secret terrorist plot to herd us all into Canada. We must therefore ban Canada!
...to appreciate your freedom. Next they'll suspend elections due to the "terrorist threat". hell, they use the patriot act for pretty much anything nowadays
"How many bills had Bush vetoed?"
You have to be able to read them to veto them.
On a scale of 1 to fascism: 1. communism 2. Democratic Socialist 3. liberal 4. Moderate 5. conservative 7. fascism See how they're exactly the opposite on the spectrum?
Is there something like Godwin's Law to cover this sort of nonsense?
that terrorist organisations may be involved in copyright violations.
I'm sure they are.
I also understand that members of terrorist organisations may be involved in breathing air. Should we ban that too?
While the parent's post is meant to be humorous, it makes a subtle but serious a point.
Increasing enforcement penalties is absolutely, positively the WRONG approach. It will have absolutely no effect on terrorists, who operate outside of the law anyway. If anything, by making their product even "more" illegal, the serious infringers will be able to sell at higher prices because there will be fewer marginal infringers to compete with, increasing their profits even more.
If profits from copyright infringement is funding terrorism, the solution is simple: abolish copyright, thus eliminating the profit motive. This would solve this "problem" once and for all, instantly and miraculously.
Sure, some people may suffer financially for a while as a consequence, but in times like these no sacrifice is too great when done to better Homeland Security's fight agains terrorism. Perhaps we could just abolish copyright "temporarily", as a wartime measure, with the promise to reinstate it once the war against terrorism is won.
Temporarily suspending copyright law to fight terrorism is the best solution, and probably the only solution, to completely eliminate the profits from piracy that fund terrorism.
I can't have free healthcare without them controlling what I eat?
I hear ya, man. I mean, when you've got the +2, what else is there to do other than troll?
Yes, if they're selling copies of "Gigli."
If you think money is freedom, you don't know what freedom is. Note that the Swedes aren't forcing anyone to live there. People choose to live there because the quality of life is very high. Note, moreover, that nearly everyone in the US aspires to be -- ostensively -- in the 35% tax bracket.
After all, I am strangely colored.
Your definition of socialism doesn't seem to be compatible with democracy. I bet many of the european socialist parties or the canadian ones disagree with this. You probably believe that these socialists' ideas will lead to an undemocratic state. Which is an entirely different discussion.
Please don't pretend to be blind for the different meanings of the word socialist. Maybe if you start to see this, you will be able to understand these 'socialists' better and convince them of possible problems with their ideology.
I can't see the argument in your last statement about 'party lines' Don't parties that need the support of the masses always employ obvious slogans like 'We want employement for everyone!' (well who doesn't?) or 'We want to fight crime (or terrorism)!'? Also your argument about communist rhetoric leading up to WW2 is quite debatable, unless you're referring to Hitler.
Water isn't wet when its frozen
rewriting history since 2109
If you aren't going to answer any of the questions or address the majority of issues raised in the parent post, why do you expect anything but the same to be done to you? Come back again when you are prepared to play with the big boys. CATO should stop supporting Republicans if it wants to retain any modicum of legitimacy.
In the US and UK the governments use the 'T' word as trump card to get any thing through. Everyone should be on their guard about this, lest we wake up one day and find a police state where law used to be.
and with the other I get a Big Mac with fries.
But ya, basically the same thing.
Don't be lazy, study the idiology behind each government. Many people have given there lives in the differences. And just because the rich and powerful blend together in an oligarchical creme cheese of sameness does not mean that good people have not faught for better government (or no government).
Kind Regards
"A few great minds are enough to endow humanity with monstrous power, but a few great hearts are not enough to make us w
Your post just made me realise something amazing. America was founded on terrorism, from a certain point of view.
Connect both ends together and you will see they are the same thing. Lol, do your really think that two things which are opposite do not have the same effect. Both Acids and Bases will burn you. Both hot and cold can kill. Too much nutrition and not enough is bad for your health. One can be blinded by to much light or non at all. All these things are considered opposite and yet each results in the same thing. Both Fascism and Communism have the same effects as well. Does it matter what name you give it? If the end is the same then it truly makes no difference what you name it. Suffering is suffering and the path to suffering is not important. The path from suffering however is another story.
If fighting terrorism is going to be the gold standard by which all legislation is now measured, how about we stop importing oil?
How about we stop pouring billions annually into financing the people who want to blow us up? That's how much we spend on oil from the middle east. How much of that is used to train terrorists and teach hatred for America?
If we're going to stop the flow of money, why pick only the little things? Let's plug the dyke where it leaks the most. Oil finances more terrorists than drugs, piracy and whatever else you can throw onto that bandwagon, combined.
Isn't it high time we replace these dumbfuck politicians with people who actually work for us, and not the corporations who paid for their campaigns? What is it going to take, America, before we wake up?
-- This sig for rent.
Fascistic socialism is just communism.
Have you even read Marx? Communism is an economic system in which the people themselves collectively own the means of production; communism is *NOT* the strict authoritarian regimes you've come to know and hate. Fascistic socialism is Fascism. Communal ownership of factories and fields is Communism. I have no-the-fuck idea where you pulled *your* definition of communism from, but it sure wasn't from Marx, nor any valid political scientist.
"Nazi" stands for [...] "National Socialist". Hitler [...] was a socialist.
Right, no politician ever used subterfuge to get elected. Especially Hitler, the paragon of honesty!
If I name my appartment "Jedi Temple", do you think that'll mean I'll be able to use the Force?
You can't take the sky from me...
Did anyone RTFA? Oh wait... this is Slashdot, nevermind. The "copyright violations" in question involve the fashion industry, ya know... making counterfeit watches, purses, etc. They aren't referring to P2P, filesharing, warez or anything of that sort.
.-.
A party name doesn't mean a lot. There wasn't much in common between the USSR Communist Party and the Italian Communist Party for example. And remember that Vicente Fox's party in Mexico is the Partido Revolucionario Institucional, the Institutional Revolutionary Party, proving that a party can live with about any name, even such a fantastic one.
Sometimes I wonder if the words "socialist, communist, liberal", derived and some others shouldn't be prohibited in the USA. Most people haven't any idea of their meaning.
Eventually they could brand OSS developers communist guerillas.
oops they do....
Fascism started in Italy (hence the name), but it was by no means restricted to it.
Socialism is a form of economic production and distribution of wealth. It is not a form of government. Hitler was a totalitarian ruler. His economic policy may have had socialist retoric but what it accomplished was the aggrigation of wealth by the select few, hardly socialist in practice.
Also, don't be an idiot and say Nazi's were socialist because they called themselves socialist. Do you beleive everything the Nazi's tell you?
Kind Regards
"A few great minds are enough to endow humanity with monstrous power, but a few great hearts are not enough to make us w
There's no point in making already illegal activities even more illegal. If they cared, they wouldn't do it anyway.
The point is to gather more power, not to prevent crimes.
You can't take the sky from me...
If you think money is freedom,
I don't.
But I dismiss the conclusion that because I don't like supporting social programs administered by the state that I reject freedom.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
if you cant get something your way make up lies about it.
WMD, depleted uranium, and now piracy
its the american way
It's also been noted the US government has been terrorizing it's people with the use of, ahem, terrorism.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
not sure whether it's firefox or the html, but here's the actual link to the archived video of the testimony
a m
http://hsgac.senate.gov/audio_video/052505video.r
Gee, Bush just gave them and their buddies $50 million dollars FOR NOTHING. "Hi, thanks for being a terrorist organization, blowing up babies, here's $50 Million dollars." Fuck piracy.
"Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide
Trademark Violation?
How good for you. I never claimed you did. I'm sure you're very sincere in your support of freedom.
After all, I am strangely colored.
Socialism is a form of government that seeks to ensure a minimum quality of life to all of it's citizens. How is that evil? Communism is the ultimate idea of small government where there is no government but that all property is public. Also not inherently evil. Fascism is an authoritative government that uses fear and intimidation to maintain control and that could be called evil.
fascist, stalinist, leninist, moaist, and others are nothing more than totalitarianist who use communism, socialism, nationalism, coorperatism, capitalism, religion, etc to gain power but usually give those concepts little more than lip service once in power. Bushists should become another similar term in the near future.
How good for you. I never claimed you did.
I know you didn't.
My comment was in regard to the following:
"USA = fascist plutocraty = freedom for the rich."
If you read through the Libertarian Party's website you will see that we do not support corporate welfare either.
I do not equate freedom with money. I equate freedom with absence of government control.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Many terrorist regimes make a lot of money by selling oil. Let's hunt down and imprison everyone who's selling oil ... ! ... oh, wait
what the parent poster referred to was the real Republicans who used to be against large government. Back in the 60's, many of the Republicans were opposed to increased spending, government intervention, and intervention in other country affairs. They fought against Vietnam as being a naked grab for power. They fought against ID cards being issued by the government. They fought against big brother intervening in our lives.
What we have today (and in the 80's) is a far cry from what the Republican party represented back in the 50's and 60's.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Sure, they've got universal healthcare, but they've got massive unemployment problems. Why work if you don't have to, eh?
An interesting question. So we must think that most unemployed Europeans are willingly avoiding any work. One wonders why so many of them go to work everyday. Probably a bunch of suckers.
Where did you find a correlation between universal healthcare and unemployment, other than an ideological one ?
If you aren't going to answer any of the questions...
Ask me a question that doesn't require that I accept every premise you state.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
The correct term for Hitler would be a National Socialist, or a Nazi. Fascism took place in Italy, under the rule of Benito Mussolini. They used to call everybody a fascist here in the former USSR, but that's incorrect. I beleive the term fascist started to be used in soviet concentration camps, which were nearer to Italy than to Germany.
From my experience as a New Zealander (NZ being more socialist than the US) this is not true.
More states seem to be butting into peoples lives than NZ ever has.
The public healthcare system in NZ has some of the problems that most public systems have, but at least going to the doctor only costs you ~$10US and you don't have to worry about deciding to goto the doctors or not being able to pay the rent like in the US.
My email addy? should be easy enough.
I have no-the-fuck idea where you pulled *your* definition of communism from
Oooh, ooh, ooh! I think I know! I think his definition of Communisim is based on every single instance of communist government that exist or ever existed. Yeah, that's probably were he got that. Not based on a book that was written by some quack who didn't understand human nature, and who wouldn't have been able to live under his own system anyway, if he weren't the one in control.
Then on that definition, how does the invocation of it in your original post make any sense, unless you were trolling?
You mention using the government to fix social problems, and using "saving the kids!" as the pretext for this veiled power grab that using the government for that would be. So...this is what makes them socialist? How does that make them socialist at all?
Okay, look at it from someone like mine's point of view. I'm a socialist, I can say that. I'm also certainly minarchist in the sense that I wouldn't want government any more than neccessary and libertarian in that I think all associations should be voluntary. So you make this comment "fucking socialists" and guys and gals like me think, "What? Must be a troll." Because we certainly don't approve of these large government power grabs, yet you have made a comment that on review leaves the impression that socialists say that government should take actions like these.
So, maybe the guys pushing the agenda at hand are socialists: that certainly isn't clear just from what we know from this story. And their actions here aren't definitively socialist, so why disparage them as "socialists" when you could use a more apt term? You're perhaps technically not wrong, but that is exactly what makes you seem like a troll: implication and assosciation to create insults masked by a possible naivete or imprecision being a troll trademark.
I guess someone will be reliving 1812 then.
He hasn't heard of a lot of things. Nobody ever has before
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
No no no, thats not the way it works..
Its more like:
" People who drive too fast use more oil, and terrorists get money from oil. So if you drive fast you are helping terrorist"
Did you say sarcasm?
You're referring to extremism. Extremism is the problem here. They're still not the same thing. Heat and Cold will both kill you, but they're hardly the same thing. They'll kill you in different ways, and in small amounts help you stay alive.
Nobody expects the Canadian Inquisition!
Where's moderator points when you need them? :(
I think you just made a real howler of a mistake there. I don't know whether you noticed or not, but you're using a party manifesto - rather than the actions of that party once in power - to determine their leanings. I don't like to bandy around terms like "hopelessly gullible" or "ridiculously naive" but you're kinda asking for it.
the layman's guide to computer science
I was waiting for the inevitable grouping of software pirates with terrorists, and they did not disappoint me.
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
No, they pirate it, as to create another chink in the Great Wall of Capitalism, so that one day it will crumble under it's own weight...
Isn't it obvious?
--I'm sure this is what our legislators will hear when industry lobbyists come knocking. Anything to put a size 13 boot to our balls.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Keeping those horrible terrorists at bay is a great excuse.
And if it starts to lose credibility then we can of course revert to the good ol' standby of "Who will look after the children?".
Gad, it's so easy being a politician in a world where 99% of voters are totally dumbass morons.
the meat of the matter is that the guy who did anti-counterfeit work, testified that while doing so he encountered muslims running the things and various artifacts tying them to Hezbollah, Holy Land Foundation, etc. So, in fact, some people doing mass-scale piracy things were also involved with known terrorists.
That is all there is to it. Maybe we can just save crying wolves! until the next time?
Beacuse they have the money to buy, and control, the government. ( and indirectly, the citizens )
'we the people' dont.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
It was determined that terrorists make use of modern means of transportation as well.
Soon to be passed, a law banning automobiles, motorcycles and airplanes.
There. That should make us safe.
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
It was only a matter of time before they manufactured some link between "Terrorism" and "Copyright Violation", so they can now use the Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act to prosecute the offenders.
Both the DHS and the PA (and PAII) bypass the checks and balances in the Judicial System, allowing them to skip legal precedent and due-process. No warrants, no legitimate chain of custody, no laws to stop them from wiretapping, taking your computers, whatever.
They can charge you for breaking the law, and their charter specifically states they don't have to tell you which law(s) you're being charged with, because telling you would be a breach of national security, or some such drivel.
I mentioned this back when DHS was a Bush wet dream, and now it looks like I was right.
Sigh.
Feudalism is not free market... therefore, it must be socialist? Oligarchy isn't free market... therefore, it must be socialism?
You missed a few, but the most notable is theocracy.
And feudal states have employ free market principles when it served them: Denmark.
Oligarchs also rely on state control to perpetuate their control over pet industries: Russia.
I like free markets. I dislike state interference in free markets. No purely Laissez-faire system exists anywhere (such a shame). But the encroachment of state control in areas of personal and economic freedom are commonly done "for the common good", a stated goal of socialists everywhere.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Was nice to have experienced freedom. Too bad our children wont get to do the same.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Oh, so you mean that if an application turns out differently in practice than in theory, we can change definition of the name of the theory to match the product of the application?
By that strand of logic, democracy is mob rule (see France, c. 1790), anarchism is ideal communism (see current countryside Argentinian industry), and Catholicism is a form of execution (Spain, 1481).
Communism has never been instituted as designed in practice. There have been attempts at communism, but every attempt to establish a communist nation has been foiled by power-hungry buzzards like the leadership of the Bolshevik party, who lost their communist nature before 1920.
No communist state has existed; there has been failed attempts and the hangovers of failed attempts, but no communism.
Stalin's regime was totalitarian with a planned economy; not communist. Fidel Castro runs a friendly socialist dictatorship; not communist. Mao garnered rural support and instituted a bastardized communal economy with rampant corruption and a nefarious overbearing government; still not communist.
Instead of trying to redefine 'communism' as you see fit, why don't you describe regimes according to their true nature?
Before you go off on the people that 'have it wrong', keep in mind many were actually taught this way.
I have noticed this in several cases, where depending on where you grow up, and when, primary education teaches different versions of 'facts'.
Sad really, how the education system pushes their twisted agenda, quietly, over generations...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Yeah ok, and I suppose if someone called you a fairy you'd point out how you most certainly aren't a fairy because fairies have wings and float in the air and carry fairy dust in a magical pouch right?
Nevermind that fairies as described don't freaking exist. Until someone actually accomplishes Marxist communism so that it becomes something more than a mythological beast, stop pretending that you are actually referring to something that resides in the real world with the rest of us having this discussion.
idiots
DO NOT buy bootleg DVDs.
DO download stuff for free.
It's your responsiblity as an American!
The latest Slashdot meme.
Let's read the Sheriff testimony shall we ? Here the link to the PDF
..I guess 20 years of War on Drugs have amply shown
..you would have seen criminal policing of terrorist activities.
.....Oh well, so as long as I'm not affected who cares about neighbours *waves little national flag*
I'll take some quotes that I find interesting, you're advise to read all the testimony for better comprehension
Victims of these organized criminal groups include the tobacco industry, luxury goods manufacturers, clothing companies, and the music and motion picture industries.
Indeed all those industry have something in common : a big difference between final sale price and production cost...meaning they have high profits for each unit they sell. Not surprisingly criminals can still produce something and sell the counterfeit good at a price
that is lower then the original good price..that's possible only if the real production cost is significantly lower then expected sale
price. Of course criminals can also use second quality raw materials for their production, but that's true of industries as well (that's why legitimate industries could use minimal open-2-review standards..but that's another problem)...most of the times consumers don't notice any significant difference, either because the difference is not significant to them or because it's factually minimal
Information in open sources indicates that across the globe anything that has a decent profit margin is being counterfeited.
And not surprisingly so..but I'd replace decent with "high"...decency is a rather vaporous measure.
During interviews, these suspects have admitted that IPR crime is attractive because of the high profit and minimal jail sentences. In the parlance of one suspect, "It's better than the dope business, no ones going to prison for DVDs."
So one would think "let's rise the bar, punish the crime and the crime will stop"
that this is not the case..drugs are still sold....while some argue that the total amount of drugs sold must have declined (because
of the seizures) they usually forget seizures make the business only marginally more expensive...and drugs are still sold.
There are mounting indicators of the involvement of terrorist groups and their supporters.
Criminal countefeit rings are those who benefit the most and they certainly don't want political/religious activists and extremists (therefore likely terrorists) among their ranks, because they're big noisy troublemakers attracting an hell of a lot of police AND government attention. One could argue that terrorism distract police from other duties, but assuming terrorist are profiting from the same rings of "ordinary" criminals
There must be the understanding that this crime affects all citizens through fraud, the diversion of tax revenue, and the empowerment of the criminal element.
I completely agree : let me remember Enron Corporation and other extremely dangerous criminal corporation who operate inside legitimate
markets..I wonder how many are hidden behind a curtain of weak or bought laws, complacent officials et al.
The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department has, like most local agencies, suffered cutbacks in personnel over the past several years due to severe budget curtailments.
It did ? Amazing I would have tought boatloads of money were disbursed to police/firefighters after 9/11...mmhh one wonders were all the
money really went. Maybe at Homeland Security ? Maybe in Iraq ?
I also hear that Terrorists make money out of oil sales so lets stop buying oil from the Middle East. Some charities also support terrorism so lets stop donating to all charities just in case. Oh, and the US government has also supported terrorist groups in the past so lets stop paying our taxes. I also heard, and I can't quote this, that terrorists breathe AIR so we should all hold our breath until we catch them all! Political opportunism at its best, courtesy of the MPAA and RIAA. Of course they are probably learning from the Bush administration that if you use the word "terrorist" often enough, you can get away with anything.
Terrorists also run stoplights. We must therefore execute lightrunners, in case they might be terrorists.
When your House Representative comes up for reelection in 2006, send them back if they voted against this obvious trivialization of terrorism, and fascist powergrab in its name. Otherwise, try a new one. They're the ones who make these laws - we're the ones who have to live with them.
--
make install -not war
Inside the US it's Gangs. Outside the US it's Terrorists. WTH??
Just add {In Space!} to anything.
It all starts with the fact that it's legal for politicians to receive money. We'd call it corruption in the Netherlands.
Fix that fatal flaw in US government and you'll have fixed crap like this. In the long run.
It's really very simple, idiots. Most of you are programmers. You're supposed to see how decisions now influence events in the future but I dont' see anyone discussing the root cause of these things.
I don't think either democrats or republicans will do anything about finance reforms and While voting anything other than democrats will end up strengthening republicans (sherriffs of nottingham) in the PRESIDENTIAL elections.
There are still the votes for congress which are NOT winner take all. If you vote for guys like Ralph Nader for CONGRESS then your vote will put a couple of guys that are not corrupt in power. It's not the presidency but it's a start, a start on the way to finance reform. Only AFTER finance reform will you be able to get a non dem/rep president in office.
The goal is finance reform, the method is not dem/rep so vote something else for congressmen.
This is all my personal opinion, who agrees with me?
- -- Truth addict for life.
Just in: A grouping known as "humans" are knowingly infringing on copyright.
SLOGEN [ http://ungdomshus.nu : Sebastian cover music]
"By that strand of logic, democracy is mob rule (see France, c. 1790), anarchism is ideal communism (see current countryside Argentinian industry), and Catholicism is a form of execution (Spain, 1481)"
By George, I think's he got it...
Except that there are two forms of anarchism: the left form is "ideal communism", the right is "ideal free market".
And Transhumanism trumps it all by eliminating economics amd politics as issues.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
How does that make them socialist at all?
Using state power to push a social agenda that limits freedom is a socialist impulse. It doesn't matter whether it comes from the right (fascism) or left (communism), both rely on the state to push their own view of what is "for the common good".
So you make this comment "fucking socialists" and guys and gals like me think, "What? Must be a troll."
The comment is my opinion. I've seen plenty of references to people who support 'evolution' as 'godless' but have refrained from taking offense because they are expressing their views. If they go further and suggest replacing biology and geology texts with the Bible, now they have moved from personal opinion into the realm of public policy. At that point, I take exception and speak out against their views.
Take a look at the posts of my critics. Not a single one provided a postive defense of socialism. Instead they spent a great deal of time and energy attacking me personally (which is hilarious due to the fact they do not *know* me personally), and attempting to redefine what *I* think.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
if you use the word "terrorist" often enough, you can get away with anything.
But only until terrorists register their trade mark and start litigations: "You didn't acknowledge our trade mark! Terrorist(tm)(R) is a registered trade mark by The Terrorist Group." Extensive coverage at Growlaw at 11.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
Small l libertarianism is freedom everywhere.
Big-L Libertarianism is SOME freedom everywhere.
As Bob Black once said, "Libertarians are just Republicans who smoke dope." Look at Dana Rohrabacher as an example.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
So, actaully Microsoft and Hollywood are funding terrorism via the black markets in asia?
Lets nail those bastards!
SLOGEN [ http://ungdomshus.nu : Sebastian cover music]
Terrorists make way more money from Saudi donations and Africian diamond smuggling than this bullshit.
*sigh* maybe we can dig up Barry Goldwater and run him again.
Capitalist anarchists tend to be teenaged, the progeny of well-to-do suburban parents, and almost always settle into the traditional parties as they age. Of course, this is not universal; there are exceptions. I'm just sayin' that the majority of your hardcore activist anarchists are communist, and the only folk you find in the occasional anarchist commune are, you know, communist.
I made a point of Argentina, as currently a large portion of the industry is owned and self-managed by the anarcho-communist union laborers who work in said industry. Also, about a third of the population currently ignores the official government, and instead participate in local meetings to decide local affairs. Some of these assemblies offer socialized education and healthcare - quite an accomplishment, in my eyes.
socialists are just as evil as fascists
If socialism is so evil, then why do so many visions of a future utopia depend on socialism? Admittedly, they are all fictional works, but so are the visions of a libertarian utopia. There's nothing inherently evil about socialism. Or communism, for that matter. We simply vilify them so as to make "us" seem better. Appealing to emotions is a logical fallacy.
the end results of both ideologies when put into practice is a police state complete with secret police and gulags.
Now, that is actually the interesting issue. Almost all of these social models have theoretical merit, the differences come in practice. As the saying goes, capitalism is a terrible system, it just works better than all the others. Socialism is a far more noble system, but seemingly impossible to implement. Is there a way, possibly through technology, to implement a better system than capitalism successfully?
Historically it would seem that every government that is strong enough to survive will become too strong and oppress its citizenry. Here's hoping that we can stave it off a while longer.
the revolution nothing but treason, yes... victor writes history, etc, etc...
I am very sucseptible to "let's have another drink"
It's like saying the the crime rate would fall if everyone would just quit robbing, raping, and killing each other. Just because the statement is true, that doesn't make it useful. The "true communism has never been tried" argument is equally fatuous.
Democracy has NOTHING to do with freedom.
It means a bunch of people with no power get to "elect" people with power and then submit to their orders.
Sweden = socialism + democracy is no different than the US = capitalism (actually STATE capitalism) + democracy. Except that Sweden is too weak to attack the rest of the world in the name of "democracy".
There aren't two people on this board who know what freedom is. And I'm the one. The rest of you are punks who just BOHICA whenever someone tells you to and then spend the rest of your post justifying it to yourself.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
From a friend. This is the short call to action. The full version follows in a comment. Licensed under Creative Commons, attribution only.
This is a call to arms. I pledge $100 annually for 10 years to a political action committee (PAC) that works solely to reform copyright regardless of political affiliation, provided they collect a minimum of $1,000,000 in pledges for the first year. This PAC will work solely to change laws through the legislative system, but helping to elect sympathetic lawmakers, and not through the courts. The leaders of this PAC should be respected and recognized within the copyright reform community; reformers like Mark Cuban or Cory Doctorow would immediately give the PAC credibility and visibility. If we feel that copyright reform is important, it's time to put our money where our mouth is. How much is it worth to you to keep your TiVo legal, or your iPod? Copyright is a legislative creation and requires a legislative solution, and the best way to do that is a PAC. We need a lot of people to make this work, but if it can't be done right it might not be worth doing at all. Please join us.
Wow, you can just about tag anything as anti- terrorist or child molesting and it gets passed. I heard that terrorists hate prostitution, gambling, and cheap beer!
Read "The Road to Serfdom" by F.A. Hayek.
Historically, Congress has almost always been controlled by a different party than the presidency. Usually the party of the President loses seats in mid term elections.
If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
These politians are smoking crack!
"Fidel Castro runs a socialist dictatorship; not communist."
Fixed that one for you.
Who exactly is he friendly with? If you mean anyone who agrees with everything Castro says, then OK I'm sure he's friendly with them, but he ain't so friendly to anyone who dares disagree with him.
Holy crap! Better not make illegal copies of things if you don't want the terrorists to blow up America again!
Propaganda? No, no... that doesn't happen these days, does it.
you can bet this is going to be just another excuse to justify more draconian "copyright" laws that will undoubtedly infringe on the rights of americans. to fight those who would destroy American freedom, we Americans must remain FREE ourselves, for to do otherwise would be to FURTHER the cause of our enemies. yet, those very politicians who claim to fight for our protection are doing so at the COST of OUR freedoms. with these politicians left unchecked, "live free or die" will soon no longer be our choices. soon, it will be just "live or die." it seems to me that our enemies are winning without lifting a finger; OUR government is doing it FOR them.
How many bills had Bush vetoed? None. What does that signify? Hasn't the Congress either been exactly split or Republican during his entire time in office? Why would he veto bills sent to him by his own party?
Karl Marx's Communist idealogies are regarded as portraying a utopia, now, a utopia has never been acheived. This begs the questions; are utopias possible? Was Leninism and later Stalinism completely inevitable, due to human nature, our own perceived "imperfections"?
Perhaps because some of them are bad?
So we ought to just start arresting all smokers because they're probably terrorists.
Ah, thank God for the level-headed politicians in charge.
an easy to make mistake given that socialists are just as evil as fascists and the end results of both ideologies when put into practice is a police state complete with secret police and gulags.
That is so true. Canada is a much more socialist country than the U.S., for example, there is free medicare for everyone. Unfortunately this has led to serious problems with gulags and our recently-created Department of Fatherland Security. Unlike the U.S. - which has the lowest per-capita prison population in the world - most Canadians are getting quite fed up with constantly being thrown into concentration camps like Guancanada Bay, without trial or charges, and are now completely ready to give up their free medicare. It's great to see people finally coming to their senses and seeing that these socialist ideas like free medicare, unemployment insurance, toll-free highways, public schools and libraries, and so on, are nothing but pure evil attacks on liberty.
Okay Godwin's Law has definatly been reached. Lets kill this thread people.
So if i re-label Fascism as Socialism, it's actually Socialism?
Brilliant. Fucking brilliant.
terrorists have also been linked to oil production. Lets start there and work our way down to things like copyright infringement and then the jay-walking epidemic...
This is meant to make P2P indefensible, just like the RIAA's child pornography campaign a few years back. After all, who wants to be accused of aiding and abetting terrorists?
Is that a shock? Terrorism is the new buzz word, slap it onto anything you don't like and it's instantly evil.
True, but counterfeiting (money, CDs, DVDs, designer labels, etc.) is popular with terrorists, its a source of income. Don't let your knee jerk reaction cause you to miss that detail. THings are more complicated than you suggest.
well, except that #'s 11, 13, 14, and 18, are blatant examples of quasi-veiled attacks on the jews, who, according to hitler, were the profiteers making nothing but unearned income, putting it in trusts, ruining national industry to the injury of the common welfare.
this again is merely power-politics, and an example of fascism. Nationalism drove the Nazi platform, the socialist element was simply a means of arranging a top-down power structure for the organization of a socialist structure more convenient to the transition to pure fascism.
# 15 would of course be an example of how much hitler cared for Germany's patriotic ageing pensioners...
Come read my stupid blagablog. Rants and Giggles
The one of the main reasons that the America is "The Great Satan" to the Islamic Fundamentalists is because of our domination of the worldwide entertainment industry and how this spreads American culture throughout the world. Now we are supposed to believe that these same people are distributing American entertainment to those that otherwise can't afford it or wouldn't buy it?
Trying to stifle our free speech, are you? You NAZI!!!
Fox is the first non-PRI candidate elected to the presidency of Mexico. He's a member of the center-right PAN, not of PRI. PRI's stranglehold on Mexican politics was at the time so strong, that even many people on the left were frankly somewhat relieved to see Fox win.
"Nazi" stands for "Nationalsozialismus" in German: IE, "National Socialist".
Yeah. So? Do you think the Democrats and Republicans are arguing over whether we should have direct or representative government? National Socialism was a name not a description. Hitler wasn't a socialist by any reasonable definition.
Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
Central authority is not necessary for a communist economy, as modern Argentina shows. Much of Argentina's labor is completely self-managed; no central power, and contrary to capitalist economists' predictions, little abuse of the system. Since Argentina's economy collapsed in 2001, a large number of factories and farms have turned to anarcho-communism to solve the financial problems the government has proven itself incapable of fixing. Communism can work, and in Argentina, anarcho-communism is doing wonders for those who accept it. To say that communism needs a planned economy is incorrect; the rest of your argument falls apart after that.
To think those heartless terrorists enjoying episodes of Dr Who, Lost and stargate like the rest of us tears at the very fabric of civilisation as we know it. By gum this has to be stopped!!! Thank God we'll probably see Congress approve another 50 billion to enforce copyright in the name of "War on Terror". I for one will then feel so much safer ...
[Democracy] means a bunch of people with no power get to "elect" people with power and then submit to their orders.
No, that's what "democratic republic" means; it's not the same thing as "democracy".
Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
So I guess they thought being old was "work". Otherwise, they'd be raising the pension while abolishing it.
Those silly Nazis.
From the Wikipedia entry on fascism:
"Fascism (in Italian, fascismo), capitalized, refers to the right-wing authoritarian political movement which ruled Italy from 1922 to 1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini."
According to Mussolini himself "Fascism, which was not afraid to call itself reactionary... does not hesitate to call itself illiberal and anti-liberal." (from FascismUSA
Though some dhave died in war [...] Point is, as over zelous that Christians are, they want to PRESERVE life.
Your logic is as good as your spelling.
You can't take the sky from me...
It's not really about systems, it's about actions - how you treat those that cannot defend themselves shows the real morality of a state.
Which ones are socialists?
Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
please... I spent all my mod points
and my garbage was overturned. Now some may think its racoons, but we here at the C.O.A.H.R.E.O (Committy to Overturn All Human Rights Except Ours) know better. It's part of a secret Al-Qida plot to rifle our garbage and discover secrets, enableling them to overtake us by assuming our identities, and killing us all off one by one. You've seen them. Rifling through your garbage supposedly looking for scrap metal to pawn. (Another plot to gain money for Al-Qida)
C.O.A.H.R.E.O is now working in conjuction with Senate Majority and Sec. of State Condisending Rice to promote Senate Bill Fu-69T This Bill will require all residents be cleared by the Garbage Control Agency (GAO) before being allowed to dispose of Garbage in secured and Approved Trash Retention Centers.(TRC) Agents of the GAO will also stand gaurd around all open dumps/incinerators/and undwater dumping grounds to ensure that the Al-Qida terrorists are unable to to steal our identies. The C.O.A.H.R.E.O estimates that this will cost an average of 10 million dollars a day to implement but that it can be paid for by giving the states 6 months to comply or loose "No Child We Can Find" funding. (Not by actually giving them any money.) Allocation of 20 billion dollars from the federal slush fund (treasury) will be done to cover this. 19 billion for Haliburton and 1 billion just for showing around money.
I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.
e.g. Shirer - The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
chapter 2:
Discussing points 11,12,13,14,16,18
"These demands had been put in at the insistence of Drexler and Feder who apparently really believed in the "socialism" of National Socialism. They were ideas Hitler was to find embarrassing when the big industrialists and landlords began to pour money into the party coffers and of course nothing was ever done about them".
You may be unaware that Hitler was well known for lying to anyone and everyone in order to get into power.
You are a sick fuck to think Hitler is a good guy. May you never reproduce.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
I can't believe that conversation went straight to arguing over what socialism is without anybody commenting on the utter absurdity of the article's subject matter. You dicks have made your bed and now you're fucking wallowing in it. Can't wait for natural selection to take care of your country. Oh wait - natural selection is soon going to be illegal in the US so it doesn't apply.
There is an important difference. The powerful are producing useful products and services with that handout money, while the not-powerful just demand handouts and then squander them on beer and cigarettes. Investing in the powerful is a wiser approach for progress of the nation's interests.
Sure, they have the same ideology - no right of a person, just collective rights. The Adolf Hitler's party has it even in it's name: NSDAP: National Socialist German Workers Party. And almost the same rules:
- strong military state
- who is not with us, is against us
- suppresion of democracy
- killing opponents
- trying to expand even at cost of war
- ...
Idiot.That's the argument! But I think it would be a offence if I call you highbrow.
If I name my appartment "Jedi Temple", do you think that'll mean I'll be able to use the Force?
You'd better hope so, otherwise you'll never get laid again.
no text at all
Argentina is not a communist state. I'm not an expert on Argentina but a quick look on google reveals that the economic collapse of 2001 has been mostly reversed and that the government is stable. At most, only small sections of the economy are run by anyone resembling communists, and participation in those ventures is purely optional. To call Argentina communist because there are some communal efforts towards growing soybeans is ridiculous.
Further, to say that the success that those efforts may have somehow suggests a communist state could be successful as well is utterly moronic. Do these collective farmers have to support a military? Do they have to negotiate treaties with other nations? Would a person in a soybean collective ever have to make a decision about the allocation of resources for a steel collective? What happens when someone in the collective commits a crime? You make the distinction that "anarcho-communism is doing wonders for those who accept it"; what about those who don't? There's a bit more to running a state than there is to running a farm or a factory. Micro-success does not imply macro-success.
just make legallise some of those things that are illegal (like drugs, prostitution, copyright infringement) and then you will have legal businesses that you can tax and also remove the income sources to the criminals.
:)
But no one in power wants to have an open society where the light of truth could be pointed any one by anyone.
Just my left field opinion
See my art -> http://herbevore.deviantart.com
John Stedman, a lieutenant in the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department in charge of IP violations, testified in front of the Senate Homeland Security committee that some associates of terrorist groups such as Hezbollah may be involved in copyright violations.
Surely, the Disney lawyers can shred any terrorist anywhere on the planet like a kitten in a pirana pool.
I aggree - the terrorists should pay for their Hollywood DVDs! After all, they got some terrific ideas from them ...
Well, jrockway's Completely Arbitrary Killing Law has now been invoked, and you're on my list. Time for you to die!
Seriously, Godwin's law is RIDICULOUS. It's arbitrary and childish... if people want to have a discussion about Nazis, then they will. Some dumb "law" coined by a Usenetter with too much time is not a good way to determine what and what not to discuss!
My other car is first.
It's all very democratic, ie. the people choose whose bullshit to believe. In recent years, americanese politician campaign tactics have begun being used here. Very filthy habit, that - and it has muddled the pond of politics even further.
Oh, so you mean that if an application turns out differently in practice than in theory, we can change definition of the name of the theory to match the product of the application?
Umm, that's exactly what he means. That's how this thing called "language" works.
My other car is first.
And as I once said, "Republicans are just douches with their heads up their asses."
Oh, you mean quoting some random person doesn't make the statement true? "A witty quotation means nothing."
My other car is first.
"Some associates of terrorist groups may be involved in IPR crime,"
translation
"I saw some Arabs using eMule"
I never heard the new-McCarthism described as socialism.
Get a clue.
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
I never cease to be amazed at how fast Godwin's Law is invoked at /.
So they're going to get Osama for downloading a Vin Diesel DVD, kind of like stitching up Al Capone for tax evasion? Damn that Gonzalez guy is clever, never mind the torture memo. Of course they'll still need to find him first, won't they?
Get your teeth into a small slice: the cake of liberty
If you have been watching the news lately, you would know that the Republican-controlled Congress is sending a stem-cell research bill to Bush's desk. He says he'll veto it, but Republicans Arlen Specter says he believes the Senate has enough votes to override a threatened presidential veto: "Senate stem-cell override likely"
cpeterso
It is a bad thing when it does that by dragging down my quality of life to ensure a subsistence level of living to someone who chooses not to work.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Pass a law forbidding intentional misrepresentation and abuse of process under the color of authority
Wait a minute...
The use of socialism was a clever use of terms to describe the Soviet Untion and the Nazi regime. China can be classified as that as well but socialism is impossible with dictators (USSR, Germany, China, Cuba, North Korea...) so while they call themselves "socalist" the only country that I would say is socalist instead of facist (yes they are all facist dictatorships which is where we are heading in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord) is Sweden. They have problems but the people can actually change the system if they decide it is necessary.
The difference is the people in Sweden actually have power where those in China, Cuba, the former USSR/Germany didn't mean shit.
Pull your fucking head out of your ass and quit believing all the BS propaganda our government puts out there.
It is above 32 degrees.
How are you going to enforce collective ownership among humans? In "the real world" every communist state has been authoritarian. All collective ownership does is concentrate all the power in the hands of whoever is making the decisions. If Marx couldn't see that then he was a fool.
That's it. I'm not putting up with this anymore. It's one thing to kill women and children, blow up our G.I.s, and spread general mayhem throughout the world, but downloading Star Wars?!?!? Ripping off the RIAA?!?
I say give them the needle.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Actually, the difference is in the targets; freedom fighters fight against military targets. Terrorists, however, target third parties, most often civilians.
The Penguin Producer
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You've got your cause and effect mixed up. The Republicans may have been supported by what CATO has said but CATO doesn't explicitely support them.
And that was years ago. Do you honestly see any Libertarian influence in the Republican party anymore? They've pretty well flushed it out by now. Since Bush II has been around (or rather, 9/11) CATO has been disagreeing more and more with the Republican party on all kinds of topics.
Be rest assured, any opinions CATO has in regards to the internet will nearly coincide with the Slashdot party line. The internet is an extremely libertarian place; the assumption that the people trying to regulate it are socialists... that's not for me to say.
Direct away from face when opening.
There was a lot of things being promise there that sounded pretty good. But reagan never came out and supported it.
Problem was (and is) that they paid it lip service. In particular, they pushed for a balanced budget amendment with pay as you go and line item veto. Yet, do they (and did they then) vote for it when they had control? Nope
In addition, they spoke against the vietnam that we had gotten out of the prior decade, but seemed to have no problem with invading 2 little countries (yet objected to serbia-bosnia action) nor invading Iraq today.
Quite honestly, I find little difference amongst the republicans and the democrats. As much as I knock GWB for the deficit and the invasion of Iraq (rightly so), the truth is, that he could not have done it without the permission of the senate dems that had power.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
that doesn't mean i think bush is an authoritarian dictator, or that the use of the veto is a bad thing or a good thing, or that if bush vetoes one or two bills then the world will fall to pieces. i was just saying that the veto record is pretty meaningless in the context of this debate.
It is thought there is a link between and food and terrorists. Namely they seem to consume it.
A full warning has been put out to watch out for the consumption of food, as it may be a precursor to a terrorist incident.
And capitalism is a bad thing when it denies a minimum quality of life to people who are willing to work.
Or, perhaps more in tune with the audience here:
Capitalism is a bad thing when it denies improved quality of life to the many solely to contribute to the wealth of a few.
Not meaning to be too much off-topic or perceived as a flamebait troll, but I'd like to toss out a little pet theory of mine regarding Republicans and the abortion issue. So please hear me out and let me know if I'm crazy or maybe onto something:
Since Roe v. Wade, we've had 16+ years of Reagan-Bush-"Dubya", several years of GOP dominated Congress, and a Supreme Court that's now pretty well shifted to a conservative bent. With all 3 branches on roughly the same ideological side, why has there only been a minor nibbling on the edges of the issue rather than an all out assault on the issue? My suspicion is that the GOP is merely using the issue to string along their ideological base for continued support, and is only making token gestures at making an effort. Am I crazy or am I realizing something few have noticed?
The US Democratic party? What, your saying the germans were a bunch of bleeding heart tree hugging hippies who wanted to tax the rich,end poverty and war, ban smoking in public places, and provide health care to everyone. Uhhh, no.
All I ask is that we elect some 'reasonable' people, not people who actually believe Osma is burning DVDs and selling them on the street corner to fund his jihad against the US.
I see you lack the satire gene.
I suggest you watch the movie by Dino Risi La marcia su Roma, or "the march on Rome", about two blissfully ignorant chaps who, amidst the social turmoil of post-WW1 Italy, join the Fascist party.
They join it because their program was really cool. Serious! They promised the abolishment of monarchy, freedom of speech, abolishment of nobility titles, and the Greatest Promise of them All in Rural Italy, the redistribution of land to farmers. Pretty cool program.
After being busted at the elections with a zero point something percent, the Fascists decide that, if they don't win with democracy, they'll win marching on Rome.
During the March, all the promises gradually wither, and as Mussolini takes power the two, disillusioned and having already striked out all the promises of Fascism, leave. The king is reported saying at the same time: "Ok, let's try these fascists for a few months, shall we?".
Memorable quote from the movie:
(The fascist are attacking a section of the Communist Party. A painting of Karl Marx is being burnt)
Chap: Excuse me, but did not we had freedom of speech in the program?
Fascist squad leader: Of course! but it's this way: they are free to say what they want, but we are also free to beat them for that. If they don't want to say what they want because they are afraid we are going to beat them, their problem.
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
I hope by 'fasicsm is again threathenig us with religious face on', you mean the islamofascist (aka neosalafist, aka extremist wahhabism) movement.
There are no major political movements within the US which propose to restrict those liberties not restricted by the US constitution.
If you are referring to some christian movement within the US, you should.. well.. lay down the crack pipe, exit your WoW client, and starting reading what the hell is going on in the world.
so if i'm seeding a torrent now does that mean i'm supporting terrorists?
Science is but a perversion of itself unless it has as its ultimate goal the betterment of humanity. -Nikola Telsa
Did Marx say capitalism was bad? No, he simply said that as the number of rich elites shrunk and poor workers grew eventually there would be a revolution which ultimately led to Communism or Marxism. Is Russia Marxist? No, because history as well as real world examples show that only small percentage of Russia was capitalist before the government was shifted to Leninism/Stalinism/Communism. You can go on and on and on on this from arguing about 'what Marx meant' to whether Russia had become capitalist enough to whether Marxism is simply outdated due to government shifting from pro-rich industrialist to pro-union workers in the late-1800's.
When it comes to history, 'facts' becomes more black and white as time goes on. You take what is known AND proven and you connect it to how reality played itself out. Any attempt without an new signficant evidence is nothing more than revisionist history by special interest groups or people. (See: Neo-nazis, conspiracy theorists, etc). The list of reasons goes on.
Next they're going to be saying that the penny tray at your local convenience story is linked to Al Quaeda.
Who cares about the ozone layer?...thanks to CFC's I can write my name......IN CHEESE!!!
Geomon said: So you only like free speech when it agrees with you?
Um, what in the world are you basing that statement on? Are you actually responding to my post?
Let me break it down for you:
1. I expressed the opinion that you were using a word incorrectly, and outside of the commonly-understood usage.
2. I posted a quite long and detailed explanation of the reasons behind my opinion, and posted corroborating historical facts.
3. I suggested that you might want to use the correct word in the future.
4. I used the words "please", and "thank you", and otherwise remained calm and polite.
So, how'd you make the leap from that, to this new talk of your free-speech rights being violated? You're free to say anything you like, and I never suggested otherwise.
Feel free to say "socialist" when you really mean "fascist", or even when you really mean "authoritarian". Just because these words all have specific understood meanings, doesn't mean you can't call them any old thing you like. You're free to do that, just as I'm free to point out that you're wrong :)
Um.. have a nice day, and all that :)
I Doubt the Indian who accepted the smallpox ridden blankets could be considered a "Military Target"
Cool website. I didn't rate quite what I expected but it's very interesting!
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
From Lt. Stedman's testimony:
Another of our cases began with the stop of a suspect at LAX by U.S. Customs Officers. Strapped to the suspect's body was more than $230,000 in cash. The suspect told the Customs Officers that she was enroute to Lebanon for "vacation." Information was developed that the suspect owned a chain of cigarette shops. Service of search warrants led to the seizure of more than 1,000 cartons of counterfeit cigarettes, an additional $70,000 in cash as well as wire transfers to banks throughout the world.
The financial cost of IPR related crimes to the State of California is significant. As an example my small team has seized about 40,000 cartons of counterfeit, untaxed, cigarettes. The California State Tax on cigarettes is eight dollars and seventy cents per carton, representing a loss to the State of $348,000. It should not be a surprise to anyone that suspects involved in IPR crime do not concern themselves with paying appropriate taxes whether federal, state or local. Our experience has been that suspects claiming twenty or thirty thousand dollars on their income tax forms routinely keep tens of thousands of dollars in cash at their homes.
The World Customs Organization estimates counterfeiting accounts for lost sales to legitimate companies worldwide at over 500 billion dollars. The United States accounts for nearly $300 billion of this total. Official estimates are that between five and seven percent of products produced worldwide are counterfeit. Despite these numbers, large, multi-national corporations, big tobacco, and the pharmaceutical industry are not generally seen as sympathetic victims; retail purchasers seek out these goods with little appreciation for the ramifications of such a purchase. There must be the understanding that this crime affects all citizens through fraud, the diversion of tax revenue, and the empowerment of the criminal element.
Mr. Stedman, please elaborate as to how cigarettes and taxes have anything to do with copyright law.
An uncanny parallel to narcotics prohibition - both of these backwards laws serve no other purpose than to cede vast markets (where there's demand, there will be a market, whether the supply side is black or white) to criminals so they can fund their evil ventures. Victimless crimes are always the most lucrative - who's going to bother reporting them?
someone could mention that terrorists are applying for a lot of patents too?
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
... unless you were insinuating that a viola is an instrument of terror rather than an instrument of music.
You'd better hope so, otherwise you'll never get laid again.
Again? This is Slashdot. Remember?
He tries to tie in music copyrights (cassette tapes in the 1980s) by mentioning that once upon a time his police department worked on some piracy cases, two decades ago. But there was no connection to terrorists there, just ordinary crime. He also mentioned that many other counterfeit items such as "motorcycles, auto parts, memory chips, software, consumer electronics, and of most concern, pharmaceuticals", which are being manufactured somewhere in the world at this very moment. But that's just a laundry list, and apparently their Sheriff's department did not even actually work on any such cases. Much less make any tie-in to terrorists.
He concludes his testimony by saying that his police team could use some more money, and perhaps since terrorism is a problem, Congress might decide there's some kind of link between all this copyright infringement that has been in the news lately and terrorism. Specifically, he suggests increase the import tariffs on containers being shipped into the port of Los Angeles, and giving the money to his department. (I always thought this was the job of Customs and the FBI, but I guess the local police wish they were doing it.)
But his department would not be looking for terror weapons; they would be looking for counterfeit cigarettes and clothing and stuff. Maybe DVDs, except I doubt that those are shipping into Los Angeles. I was under the impression that DVDs were generally shipped from Los Angeles. And that they still had the timecodes on the prints to prove it.
"the logical conclusion of any attempt to follow the theoretical sequence capitalism -> socialism -> communism to its end."
If you read Marx his intended conclusion was completely different to the USSR under Stalin. It would be right to say that Stalin was the logical conclusion of what you can sometimes end up (extreme authoritarianism) when you try and pursue something that is totally unrealistic (which Marxism is) that requires an authoritarian period. You get stuck in the authoritarian period indefinitely as the people who gain power love the power too much.
With regard to Hitler he was both a fascist (pro-national) and a socialist (for government ownership) and authoritarian. The latter two were in service to the first, though, so it's reasonable to consider him a fascist first and foremost. Having the term socialist in the name of the NSDAP was convenient as this allowed it to recruit members from the left-wing parties such as the SDP, who were attracted by the state ownership aspects.
That period in history gave birth to three of the worst humans in history in terms of crimes committed - Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, as they could use 20th century developments in communications and control to create efficient killing machines.
Maybe you missed this:0 031105-1.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/2
An abortion ban isn't going to happen without a major shift in public opinion. "[T]oken gestures" are all that can be done. The partial birth ban and, AFAIK, parential notification for minors are supported by a noticable majority of people. If there is an "ideological base" voting Republican thinking that abortion will be stopped altogether then they need to get a clue. Same goes for blind Dem supporters and whatever pet issue they might have.
Asserting that politicians use issues to "string along their ideological base" is a truism, IMO. Most know where public opinion lies when it comes time to make a decision, but still will posture and attention-grab in the meantime, then backpedal, "flip-flop," and damage control afterwords (tacking controversial items on to basic bills could fit in with these too). In cases where there isn't much of a public opinion, they'll just do what the money says.
"Oooh, ooh, ooh! I think I know! I think his definition of Communisim is based on every single instance of communist government that exist or ever existed. "
Actually the Communist movement started in Italy in medieval times. This wasn't Marxist-Lenninist, of course, but Marx was aware of these communities when doing his work. However Communism is pretty unworkable even if you followed Marx to the letter. It's pie-in-the-sky.
But going back to the logical issue at hand, if you bought a car by manufacturer X and it broke down, and bought another of the same brand, and it broke down, and another of the same brand, and broke down, would you conclude that cars are supposed to break down and change your definition to "car is a thing that breaks down" or conclude that there was a problem with manufacturer X?
I suggest you start here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000 2197WY/ref=lpr_g_2/104-6221170-0725500?v=glance&s= books
The next two books would also do a lot to enlighten you:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0226320618/ qid=1117439889/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-6221170 -0725500
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060007761/ qid=1117439889/sr=2-7/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_7/104-6221170 -0725500
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
That was the early program, but basically it was abandoned in favor of having the industry backing the party. In the end, Nationalsocialism was what the Fuehrer wanted, nothing more nothing less. As for the unemployment abolishment, that was done with heavy deficit spending into the war industry (sounds republican eh?) But the problem is, that in 1938 by international means Germany was bankrupt due to deficit spending and it needed the Austrian gold reserves. But that was not the main reason for invasion into Austria and Tzechia, the war was preplanned by Hitler way back into 1925, maybe way back into 1918, as a retaliation for 1918, hence the deficit spending.
Even moreso. With capitalism, the means of production is owned by (nearly exclusively) wealthy, established families.
Political power too. See Kennedy family.
Not a lot different from communism, really.
Communism was the path on the way to utopia. Capitalism and communism were both non-ideal extremes.
Who does copyright violations
...
-> hezbollah
-> you
-> me
-> I haven't got a doubt even in the white house there is lots of illegal software. I even know someone who's consulted there and he did use questionable practices in that arena.
so
How come there is no law "fuck copyright owners" getting voted ?
I thought the point of a democracy was to make the will of the people law.
Intresting thing to deduce from what I said. The problem that west has with Hitles is that he has been canonized as ultimate evil. Yet it is considered politically incorrect to look out how this evil functioned and gained it's power.
<p>
It gained power by:
<ol>
<li>frightening majority of it's people by telling them that nation was constantly threathened from inside and outside,
<li>convincing that majority that they as a nation had special place and destiny in the world,
<li>ridiculing opposite viewpoints and making them look unpatriotic.
</ol>
Nowdays people look out and despise flags with svastika and naziuniforms. Modern version of evil may gain it's power looking wery different but using the same method.
Dyslexics have more fnu.
No I didn't RTFA, maybe I should, the joke was just too easy.
Terrorists also jaywalk sometimes, and speed, should we lock people up for those violations?
When it comes to so-called terrorism, under many (if not most) circumstances the only real difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is your point of view.
The most important such circumstance is if your point of view is that there is no terrorists except for in the eye of the beholder.
If, on the other hand, your definition of "terrorism" is "inducing fear by the means of violence or threat of violence against civilians and civilan targets in order to bring about political change". Such political change can include "freedom", but need not.
Generally, if you abide by the laws of war, you are not in this definition, a terrorist.
There are plenty of examples of terrorists not being freedom fighters, freedom fighters not being terrorists and freedom fighters being terrorists. And it is of course a sliding scale. Some groups perpetrate occasional acts of terrorisms, some do it all the time.
I had come across the following during research on another topic. It would seem the intro could almost apply to the current administration. The reference to early terrorism seems a bit ironic. The reference to the Sons of Liberty brings to mind that although we may not agree with the methods there may be merit to the goals.
It's unfortunate when the politicians and news media continue to capitalize on peoples fears. It just seems so archaic. I can only wonder if our society has lost the vitality to create real statesmen like we read about in our history.
INTRODUCTION
Terrorism, the deliberate creation and exploitation of fear for bringing about political change.
Early Terrorism
More than 2,000 years ago the first known acts of what we now call terrorism were perpetrated by a radical offshoot of the Zealots, a Jewish sect active in Judea during the 1st century ad.
Microsoft ® Encarta ® Reference Library 2005. © 1993-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Sons of Liberty was an association of Patriots in the United States before the American Revolution. The goal of the Sons of Liberty was to stop enforcement of the 1765 Stamp Act by any means, including violence. As such, this group would be considered terrorists, by today's standards.
Here in Tokyo, you see lots of counterfeit fashions, fake Louis Vuitton and Chanel bags, fake Rolex and Tag Heuer watches being hawked by foreigners on the street in Shibuya and Harajuku and Shinjuku. Aside from the African guys who sell Soccer shirts and hip-hop gear, the people doing this are almost all from Israel.
They're even generically known by the Hebrew term "Buster" or "Jewelry Seller."
Somehow, I doubt these kids are sending much money over to Osama Bin Laden...
we're the Popular Peoples Front of Piracy ... not to be confused with the Peoples Popular Front of Piracy ...... splitters !!!
Overpriced goods created by invasive, statist laws are making less desirable elements rich whether counterfeit goods, drugs, prostitution etc. Making more draconian laws simply speeds us on the "-isms" road to decline and the dustbin of history if uncorrected. Good laws are self enforcing, virtue resists vice; we could wind up with neither. Hey guys, RIAA members etc, simply overcharge. The lesson is when one buys any RIAA/MPAA sponsored work, legit or not, one drives up demand and pricing - you ride with bin Laden.... ;>
Can you (or someone else) explain, how exactly does Osama benefit from someone downloading latest movies or music off Kazaa or BT? I don't see the money getting to their caves here...
RTFA, they are talking about physical objects not bits.
Unrelated to TFA, and just as an ad hoc hypothetical since you brought up the subject, operating a system for serving porn, music, and movies would be a good way to harvest the IPs of end users who may provide useful zombie systems. Insecure end user systems may literally be worth their weight in gold to these guys. So yeah, even bits could have value.
Exactly so!
If you are thinking about "socialism" then places
like Castro's Cuba come to mind -- free/cheap housing,
free medical care, free education, etc. Or perhaps,
Venezuela, which has a left-of-center elected
government that actually cares about their poor.
But that the Bushwhacker neo-cons regard Venezuela
as an enemy state has less to do with their politics,
and a way lot more to do with their oil wealth.
Diverting their oil profits away from the elite
with close ties to Houston, TX, into social welfare
programs has brought Venezuela to the brink of being
included in the "axis-of-evil".
State corporatism, also known as National Socialism,
tends to provide favoritism to corporations over
the general well-being of the population. Tax cuts to
these corporations, legislation that provides
government handouts to corporations, stripping away
of social welfare programs, government actions against
labor unions and equitable wages, concentration of
the public media into fewer and fewer hands, and
unprovoked and unjustifiable foreign wars are the
warning signs.
The USA has come a lot closer to adopting National
Socialism than Venezuela has to becoming a "communist"
state in the past five years. And it is particularly
vexing to hear the Senate Majority Leader Frist
call the increasingly marginalized minority party
"Nazis" over the use of the filibuster -- a mechanism
for guarding minority party voice in the approval
of "appointed-for-life" Federal judges.
Actually it sounds like the loony left caricature of the Republican Party. If you want to understand the the real-world Republican party, you'd do well to read and understand the party's platform, which is published and readily available.
Oh, right, "true" democracy is simply mob rule. But that's not what people are talking about in this country when they use the word "democracy". They're talking about a state "elected" as I described.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
A non-witty post means even less.
Libertarians - big or small L - are SO "over" it's not even funny. They were over twenty years ago when I stopped paying attention to them.
The reason I brought up Rohrabacher was because I just read something a few days ago or a week ago whenever where he said something that would have gotten him dumped from the Big-L Lib Party years ago. Can't remember what it was now, but it was typical Republican stupidity.
I quoted Bob Black because he was right and Rohrabacher is the poster boy for how right.
Ron Paul is another one. He talks a good game, but Sibel Edmonds has been looking for a Senator or Congressman to reveal what she knows (which is plenty) and hasn't found one yet, so that leaves him in the same class as Rohrabacher - all talk, no game.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Scary thought, but there ARE female StarTrek/Starwars nerds out there.
Completely unrelated, but does anyone know how I can make firefox NOT popup the damn find bar whenever I type a / character?!
A while back, someone posted a link to this site on slashdot, http://www.politicalcompass.org/. It's theory includes a left and right, authoritarian (fascism) and libertarian (anarchism) axes.
a nalysis2.php
Here's a link to one of the pages including where major political figures fit on the compass. http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/
Cheers.
uh huh. sure.
Well, if the feds can't get those pesky terrorists for mass murder and mayhem, they might be more successful prosecuting them under draconian copyright legislation. Afterall, it worked when the tax laws were used to take down the notorious gangster Al Capone.
Yeah, they should have worked within the system and had a new king elected. Why, at the time, all they had to do was wait for an election so they could throw out the governor of the territory. Oh, wait, working within the system only applies when there are actually features of the system that allow the introduction of change, like elections, and where the interests of the people are represented and can affect change. But other than that minor flaw, I'm sure your analogy is sound.
I know a couple local Sheriff's officers who trade movies and games while at work. Ohhh, police linked to piracy - lets get rid of the police.
You know what sucks? Utopia. Every attempt at creating a utopia has failed; clearly, utopia is shit.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
GP never said Argentina was a communist state. He merely stated that is shows an example of non-centralized communism in action. In fact, in this case, his entire point is that it's *not* a communist state.
Treaties? Red herring. Communism is an economic method, not a governing method. Assuming Argentina was a communist state, it could still be a democracy, a republic, a dictatorship, etc.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
How are you going to enforce collective ownership among humans?
I don't know, but the U.S. government does a pretty good job of it with national parks and roads.
In "the real world" every communist state has been authoritarian.
So? In "the real world" every U.S. president has been a white male. That doesn't mean that being the president necessarily makes you white or male.
All collective ownership does is concentrate all the power in the hands of whoever is making the decisions. If Marx couldn't see that then he was a fool.
Capitalism merely concentrates power in the hands of whoever sits at the top of the ever-steeper wealth gradient. Do you really believe money doesn't drive the U.S. government? Do you really believe millions of dollars are sunk into lobbying for nothing? Money buys power. Money is power. Calling Marx a fool for creating a system where powerful people can end up taking control is bit much. Communism may be totally impractical, but you haven't given much of an argument to support the notion, and capitalism certainly isn't without its glaring flaws.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
For instance, how can a decision about the appropriate use of a waterway, for agriculture or industry, be made without a government? Local committees can't work, because a river can stretch for miles, with the interests of those involved being completely at odds, so at some level, government has to intervene.
You're right when you say that the structure of this government can vary, but I have to ask: how many times has communism not taken the form of a dictatorship? It gets back to the original criticism: just because communism could, in theory, not be authoritarian, can it ever not be authoritarian in practice? How would the rise of authoritarianism be prevented?
The problem I had with the GP is that he tried to extrapolate from the fact that there were communally owned and operated farms and factories in Argentina that communism as a system was a good thing. But the truth is, that while these efforts may be fine in their limited aspects, they do not address macro-scale issues. At best, the GP's post shows that communal efforts can integrate into a capitalist system.
I disagree with the statement that "communism is an economic method, not a governing method". It is both, simply because the former cannot exist without the latter. How can the commune make decisions about the allocation of resources across industry boundaries without a governing body?
You're right. I was basically drawing an arbitrary line that can't really be exact with communism.
You're right when you say that the structure of this government can vary, but I have to ask: how many times has communism not taken the form of a dictatorship?
Well, I think the GP has legitimately pointed out some communism that seems to be working fine.
It gets back to the original criticism: just because communism could, in theory, not be authoritarian, can it ever not be authoritarian in practice?
There have also been plenty of capitalist systems that degenerated into fascism. I'm going to out on a limb here and assume that there aren't really enough communist data points to draw meaningful conclusions, other than a vague suspicion that communism has some tie to authoritarianism.
How would the rise of authoritarianism be prevented?
This is a valid question for any system of government and/or allocation. If you asked me how to prevent the rise of fascism in a capitalist society (and keep it a capitalist society), I'm not sure how I'd respond, other than to say "We're not quite there yet!"
The problem I had with the GP is that he tried to extrapolate from the fact that there were communally owned and operated farms and factories in Argentina that communism as a system was a good thing.
Well, what they're doing seems to be working, and it seems to be communism, so I'd say this is a fair extrapolation.
But the truth is, that while these efforts may be fine in their limited aspects, they do not address macro-scale issues.
No, they don't. Which simply means it's not an example of The One True Communist Plan. I've yet to see an example of real capitalism properly addressing micro-scale issues; that doesn't mean it can't, and that doesn't invalidate capitalism's very real and noteworthy accomplishments.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
As if your left-leaning rhetoric and inflammatory sig weren't enough, you used the phrase "no-the-fuck idea". You fucking rule.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
An argument as stupid as this is being used in a (successful?) serious campaign to limit immigration into the USA. This is by an American environmental group, greensomething, I think, fairly typical of their type.
1) Americans are fat, polluting etc
2) Everyone outside America is better.
3) Don't let ppl become American.
Really, I don't think a Mexican worker gets over the border, picks some fruit and then buys an SUV and eats everyday in MacDonalds.
(Read in NewScientist)
In regards to capitalism not addressing micro-scale issues, I have to ask for an example. I don't understand what you mean by that.
There have been some arrests with links to terrorist groups such as Hezbollah
The guess from the article is that it is in the $30 million range of additional funding for theses groups.
I just thought you'd like to know that I've just made a donation to the NRA in your name. I'm sure that the name "NeoBolshevik Nimrod" struck them as a little strange, but they were still happy to get the money anyway.
Terrorists also purchase knives, forks, spoons, american made cars, tickets on american air carriers, florida oranges, california grapefruits, and texas oil.
We all know that the MPAA and RIAA have more power and authority than even the US government, when it comes to mobilizing troops. No. Not flamebait. Just saying, US govt tried to do anything, and it will get caught up in the red tape that is politics, but these "associations" and others like them seem to be able to get their point across with out any problems. So, I guess we will definitely see these copyright laws passing soon, especially since we know now that terrorists use illegal software and download movies before they are release to public.
It's not the issues, it's the principles. In this case, it's increased government control of everyday life in the form of helping the people through tax-assisted programs. That is socialism.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Sometimes it's hard to tell these days... *sigh*
My other car is first.
Bloody colonials! ;)
But yep, there's often considerable ambiguity about just who is a terrorist.
Me (Blog)
For that matter, US parties have names like 'Democratic' and 'Repulbican' ;)
Me (Blog)
Hitler was not a Socialist, his party while being the National Socialist party was actually a facsist corportist bunch. Your definition of socialism is flawed.
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
From all points of view, actually.
Note that outside the US and France, the reason for the colonial rebellion is not seen as an idealistic stand for theoretical freedom. Britain was short of money after the Napoleonic wars, and the settlers kept on prompting fights with the natives, which meant that troops needed to be stationed in the colonies. Britain wanted the colonials to pay for this, or to stop expanding onto native territory.
The settlers refused to do either, rebelled, and started the expansion which ended up killing the natives. So, rather than being a tyranny, Britain was trying to stop genocide.
Of course, you will not see this interpretation in US history books.
Has anyone thought of the obvious - bring Bin Laden into American Politics and get him fighting on our side. Hell, he can get things done!
Do you think he would be Democrat or Republican?
Or do you think there are some jobs he just couldn't stomach?