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Dungeon Master's Guide II
DMG II is a deeper mirror of the first Dungeon Master's Guide. Each chapter in the first book is reflected in the sequel, providing more explanation and a deeper look at the subject matter showcased in the original. In addition to mechanics, which was the primary focus of the first Guide, the DMG II examines the process of running a Dungeons and Dragons game by breaking it into discrete elements.
The first few chapters of the second Guide are entirely devoted to the experience of the game from the Dungeon Master's side of the screen. Like another good book on the subject, Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering , DMG II goes into the psychology of the rules arbiter by laying out what will likely be required from you in your role as DM. The Guide also goes inside the heads of players to offer up to the reader possible motivations for a player coming to the gaming table.
From the broad scope of running a game, the book focuses in on the campaign and adventure specific levels. An examination of campaigns covers a large amount of terrain, starting with game styles and character creation suggestions, and ending up in a discussion of the medieval-renaissance flavor of the default Dungeons and Dragons setting. Adventures as discrete entities get something of a short shrift in the book, with heavy discussion of iconic adventure settings taking up most of that chapter. If you've ever wanted to run a battle in the sky, this tome has what you need. The adventure chapter does have a few worthwhile tips on incorporating material from outside sources into your own campaigns, making a Dungeon Magazine subscription more tempting than it might otherwise be.
Beyond the basics, the mission of the second DMG seems to be to allow DMs with a limited amount of time maximum flexibility. Where the original title had pre-generated NPC statistics to utilize, the second book has chapters on making NPCs more interesting, ways to integrate your players more fully into the campaign world, and an entire mapped out and catalogued city for you to insert into your game. The character chapter includes a system for allowing players to run their own businesses. It abstracts out a good number of factors, keeping the focus of the game on fun and adventure while allowing players to put down roots and make some money. While more realistic campaigns may not find it worthwhile, the average dungeon-crawl will benefit from a small business run using these rules. Similarly impressive is the canned city, Saltmarsh. Saltmarsh is a good-sized town, with plots aplenty and several interesting adventure opportunities spread throughout the different districts. Like the campaign chapter, the city of Saltmarsh gives a window into the standard setting that a first time DM might not otherwise have available.
For a veteran Dungeon Master, there are a few gems that stand out as making this book worthwhile. The sections on Saltmarsh, the business system, and the various tips on tweaking your gameworld (including suggestions for creating prestige classes) would all be handy to have at your fingertips. Newer Dungeon Masters should not miss the opportunity to take a look at this book. The chapters on pacing, performance, and campaign preparation are very well written and will provide some much needed advice for someone just cutting their teeth. Players need not apply. The information a Player would get from this book is simply not worth the money to pick up, unless you're planning on getting into the DM gig.
Wizards of the Coast has created a worthy successor to the original Dungeon Master's Guide. Providing a deeper examination of the original tome's content and a reflection on the performance art that is DMing, to new DMs the DMG II is definitely worth the price-tag.
You can purchase Dungeon Master's Guide II from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
I know we're nerds here but come on...
ogg
Black cat, searing pain, flames...? I must be in Heaven! - Homer Simpson
Running a tabletop role playing game easy enough. Just take your laptop, run "nethack", and it takes care of itself. That is, until you get a message like
"You fall into a pit! You land on a set of sharp iron spikes!--more--
The spikes were poisoned! The poison was deadly...--more--
Do you want your possessions identified?"
"99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
Dude. WTF kind of frist p0st was that?
I know what I'll be reading next Friday night.
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
I wish I could cast a spell to kill all level 3+ /. trolls. But I don't have the karma points!
Red Bull gave me wings and I flew into the ceiling fan.
also so does every reply in this forum decrease one's chances of ever having sex?
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
Whos the more a fool - the fool or the fool that follows?
If they were truly skilled at this would they be a dungeon master????
Does it finally include a chapter about getting a girlfriend?
Happy Noodle Boy says "F###ing doughnut! Mock me? You fried cyclops!!"
I haven't read the book yet, but I wonder if the Saltmarsh reference erlates to the 1st ed. "Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh" trilogy. That was, IMO, one of the finest adventures ever written for the D&D game and (with some stat conversion) still hangs with the best of the 3rd and 3.5 ed. stuff.
I will likely stick with the original manuals and my creativity and leave it at that. Besides by burning hatred for WotC, I feel AD&D has been mismanaged to the hilt ever since Gygax left and I'd rather play old-school with plain blue dice from the D&D boxed set than electronic doo-dads, manuals taking all the creativity out of everything down to the smallest thing, and AD&D being made more like M:tG than the trippy blaze your own trail thing it used to be.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
The best RPG campaign I remember is one where the DM had no books, no maps, no rules. He had just a ten-sided die. It beat just about all campaigns where there are books and graph paper scattered all over the table.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
They should have called it: "Guide for the Chaotic Evil Dungeon Master".
I know I took that from somewhere (Dragon magazine funnies?) but damn, that title is still catchy!
"Guide to Never Getting Laid. Ever."
I think my wife would have some words about that.
No Longer a Menace to Society.
Alexandria Morrigan born 2/22/01 l. 20.5in wt. 7 lbs. 5 oz.
I may likely get Trolled for this, but I wish people would realize how poor a system strict adherance to D&D rules produces. Philosophically, the purpose of these games is to be given freedom to pretend you are a person in a world that we could never really have (and likely wound not want) so why is it that D&D must tabularize everything? A game founded on imagination tries to eliminate almost every shred of it and instead replaces creativity with canned cities/NPCs/damage-amounts-for-falling-on-hard-sur faces etc. When I have played/DMed something somewhat D&D related, all I use are books cataloging spells and equipment. Damage amounts, loot etc. I create based upon judgement, or as a player allow the DM to control. People are so nitpicky and so concerned with getting something that is "+4" than actually having a fun and challanging experiance that they refuse to trust the DM, and instead make him into a sort of catch all LUT/Name generator. The game is about imagination, why stifile with with a million dice rolls and the demand that damage be down according to a table, not according to what the DM judges makes the game the most enjoyable.
I believe it was the first DMG by EGG who wrote that all rules were optional. Too many rules and books get in the way of the true goal of RPGs: telling a good story.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
geek-o-meter... melting...
honestly though, it's a misconception to summarily categorize all people who enjoy playing DnD with their friends as lacking in interpersonal skills. it is really just a game, afterall. Right? RIGHT????
Much harder than DM'ing is trying to teach a new player how to play. Trying to get across that a new character isnt rolled each session (most love the character creation, but suck at roll playing) Does anyone have suggestions on reading material for a new D&D player that goes over the basics from a higher level?? I tried to get my wife to read parts of the Players guide, and she got a bit glossed over at all the statistical tables.
No I didnt spell check this post...
When I ordered it, I got a free copy of 101 Ways To Keep Your Virginity
It hasn't been uploaded to alt.binaries.e-books.rpg yet.
Jesus used to be my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.
Chapter 4: Your Dungeon Master and You
"Whatever you do, don't pay for his share of the pizza. That bastard is fat enough. At night he dreams about you setting off his traps and missing impossible saving throws, so feel free to piss on his toilet seat when you're at his (parents') house."
Wow, that's pretty harsh.
OK, I cheated. That last one was professional acting rather than something from a D&D game.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
How AD&D geeks "roll" with a lady!
"Nature bats last..."
I guess the assumption that Dungeon Masters don't get laid is correct, then.
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
The original Palladium Beyond the Supernatural game had a very good chapter on creating suspense and atmosphere in a game. For example don't say "You hear someone's guts being torn out in the room next door." Instead say "You hear tearing, then a squishy sound followed by a scream. It happened nearby." You can also freak your players out by asking them questions which cause them to think about potential scary consequences (even when there aren't any): "So, are you going to turn that doorknob with your right hand, or your left had?"
Ideas like these are applicable to almost any Role Playing Game, not just horror games. Creating tension and atmosphere makes role playing much more enjoyable. Personally, I find this kind of advice much more valuable than pregenerated NPC tables.
KTHXBYE
Tell your mommy you're not allowed to use the computer anymore.
No Longer a Menace to Society.
Alexandria Morrigan born 2/22/01 l. 20.5in wt. 7 lbs. 5 oz.
For Dungeon Master's Guide II .5 thanks...
...and they want their game back.
As a veteran gamer and more often DM, I always chuckle when people quip at gamers about not having a life. The game is all about social interaction and without a group there is no game, only a dream.
One of the many drawbacks of D&D is that it trivializes day to day activities and only focuses on the "fun" stuff. Fun here is a relative term and left to the definition of the players and DM of any game. Because of this one of the most common complaints by players is a lack of realism. If this book can help me/them establish realism for players who want realism while maintaining the fantasy element for the escapists in all gamers then I'm all for it.
Many of WotC recent books have been virtually useless to me and many gamers I know, simply because the deluge of material is not anything I will be able to incorporate into my worlds soon. But at least it is there for those who want it.
D&D was the first MMORG (oops MMRG).
...we'd like Duran Duran back too. They should never have escaped.
- the 80's
bp
Let's listen in for a couple of minutes while the DM runs the game using Nethack for his source:
"Blue screen of death? I make a saving throw!"
"What do you mean, I am attacked by a Bonzi Buddy?" "Donno. It just appeared on the screen."
"This is interesting. Did you know that if you give this guy in Nigeria 13,000 gold pieces, he will pay you back 30,000,000 gold pieces and bump you up to a tenth-level character?"
"What do you mean, my sword's damage was not increased +20? I used C1ALiS on it!"
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Bah, this is for the lame and lazy who don't have enough imagination or creativity to actually play the bloody game. I mean, the whole point of this versus sitting down at a computer and playing nethack is supposed to be making the stuff up yourself, right? This is crap and a half. I can see players wanting to get some of the supplement books to trick out their characters using some official criteria, but this isn't a book about tricking out character stats, skills, etc, it's about tricking out a world. If you need that kind of help, you probably don't need to be running your own game or making your own campaign setting to begin with.
The book has some good ideas to toss around the table but for a seasoned DM it's a fairly unecessary purchase, but worthy of a skim or two.
I have to admit I'd been wondering about buying the product. Let's just say I own every preceding generation of the product and was wondering what they'd offer me now that might be worthy of prying some more gold from my purse.
:)
It seems that this is a little less mechanistic and a bit more process oriented. That's a good thing, for many folks.
And I have to admit, I loved the original Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh (Module U1) as a starter adventure. My current 15-16 year old campaign ran the series U1 to U3 about 14 years ago as part of the starting game. It took many of the PCs through a couple of levels and the fight vs. the Shahuagin is well remembered. So to see Saltmarsh reprised as a town with some detail is quite a fun idea!
So, thanks for the review, even if the slashgeeks do take an opportunity to poke at the rpggeeks (where the two won't admit to crossing over).
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
I'm sorry, but the original DM guide was from 1979.
Now I can proudly hold my Dungeon Master's Guide II as I drive my Segway while wearing my Kopin CyberDisplay video eyewear.
Look out chicks, here I come!
If the release of a Dungeon Master's Guide II is "news for nerds," then maybe "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters." is an oxymoron.
I bought DMG2, and I'm a new DM so I suppose I'm reasonably qualified to comment.
I used to role-play, back 20 years go, during the days of 1st Ed. Then I fell out of it. Now, a friend and I play again, using 3.5e rules. He's massively more experienced than I am. He's great at presenting material to me smoothly, and as a player, I quite like 3.5e ("we" started with 3.0) However, when I try to spin the table around and run a campaign trying to challenge and engage him, an experienced player, it's really not an easy task. The original DMG helps in terms of providing quick & dirty sample NPCs and tables, but the DMG2 covers more important matters: when and how to use those things. It's not so much a rulebook as a style book. And having read the thing, I found myself repeatedly saying "hey, I do that" or "hey, I SHOULD do that". DMG2 provides content that is valuable to me, the newbie DM. And I, surprisingly, am the target market. Go figure.
As an aside, on the topic of a moneygrab, I think you're missing the point. Those people who own 3.0e manuals don't HAVE to purchase 3.5e materials. There's enough similarity that adventures and other supplemental materials make complete sense to someone using 3.0e core rules. To people who don't already have 3.0e manuals, given that 3.5e offers more content at the same price-point, how can this possibly be construed as a moneygrab?
My point: if you, an experienced RPG player feel the compulsion to buy manuals you don't like or feel give you value, you've got a sickness, just like the guy who has to pick up the copy of Dark Side of the Moon with "new" cover-art, just because it exists.
"Oh no... he found the
Save yourself some money by buying it here: Dungeon Master's Guide II
I haven't read DMG2, but with 3.5 - moneygrabbing scheme or not - they actually listened to players and made a bunch of revisions and clarifications that make the game more fun than 3.0. I have no problem with that.
Also, consider that you can get all the basic d20 system information for free online, I think it's hard to accuse them of abusing their customers... That includes the player's handbook, the monster manual, and the DMG.
-If
Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!
WotC has gotten a lot of flack for churning out books that are filled with prestige classes, feats, and spells ... and not much else.
To be fair, this started a long time ago, under TSR's watch. After 2nd Edition came out it was one "Complete ____ Handbook" after another, and IMHO they were full of stuff that used to make for good articles in The Dragon magazine. But Dragon turned into a Supplement-of-the-Month ad, and TSR churned out so much crap... ah well, we all know where that lead.
On the upside, I was able to sell my "Core Rules II" cds on eBay for a damnsight more than I paid for them originally. Who knew those would appreciate in value!
You've only been saying that ever since you plunked down the $20,000 to complete your robot..... your GIRL robot.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I DM'd late 1970's to early 1980's.
I quit because, it be came work and was not fun any more. I had to spend hours getting game together, adventures, random monster tables, etc.
I wanted a game where this could all be generated so I could actually "have fun", which is how it used to be when I first started to play.
Now, with the adult restraints on my time, I do occasionally play an MMORPG, I have fun and do not have to "work at it".
Just hope that the people that still play the "table" version have fun doing so!
At least the other responders tried to insult my wife and family without quoting commercials.
No Longer a Menace to Society.
Alexandria Morrigan born 2/22/01 l. 20.5in wt. 7 lbs. 5 oz.
How is he going to explain the dupe? Schizophrenia?
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
Its always seem to me that all these new fangled computer games like Doom and Diablio took the wrong bit of D&D. The lifted all the rules, dice roling, Hit Points, Strength points, lots of wapons, magic and monsters, but missed the heart of D&D. What made D&D was the fact that you could spend three hours talking to a Dragon, or with a sutibally lenient dungon master you could add a bit of imagination, say take one clock of flying and two wands of fire and pretend to be the red barron. Computer gamres have so far to go if they are ever going to match D&D for the posibilities. GTA getting closer in the fredom aspect but still so limiting. Computer RPGs don't deserve the title Role Playing.
There are four sorts of people in the world: fools, lunatics, idiots and morons. - Umberto Eco, Foucaut's pendulum.
My first impression of the Dungeon Masters Guide II is the sound of a Dungeon Master's sex life shriveling into a withered husk and crumbling into so many insignificant particles: SCHCCHHCHCHCHCHCHHRRRCKCKCKCKKCCRCK.
Monster Zero is the reason we cannot live on the surface, but must live forever live underground like this.
Bram Stoker's Dracula soundtrack, Glen Danzig's Black Aria, Gustav Holst: The Planets Suite, and O Fortuna from Carmina Burrana for epic boss fights. :)
While i unfortunately feel as if i've 'outgrown' such games (at the age of 30)....
I'm glad to see that people are still playing them and that they're still alive. My friends and I put in a lot of hours to D'n'D and similar, creating and playing our worlds and characters. And this was back in the late 1980s/early 1990s when video games still rawked!
Oddly, i feel the same way about a lot of video games as i do about tabeltop games.... Strange predicament- I feel "too old" to get interested in them, but rationally I can't figure out why my age would matter at all.
-hopeless....
do() || do_not();
I can't believe you're reviewing something so .. geeky! Besides, my Bard/Cleric_of_Olidammara could write a much better book. And anyone who says D&D makes you not get laid, well let me tell you: my bard gets laid all the time!
If you do go out and pick up the new DMG2 and decide to add Saltmarsh to your campaign, it would be worthwhile to go pick up the old module "The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh". It is actually the first of a three part series that leads to some pirate ship adventure and more. The first one actually begins with the exploration of a haunted house (or is it?) just outside of town and proceeds onto the high seas of adventure in the following two modules. Well worth seeking out and fairly easy to run, but you'll have to do some conversion for the new rules.
Thanks, Kaleidojewel! I wouldn't have any idea where to buy it if you hadn't put up your referring link! Who would have thought about buying it online at an online bookseller like Amazon. Good work! Too bad your referrer link isn't also "Anonymous Coward"!
I wanna cast magic missile in the dark room:
m moner-Geeks-Movie-(.avi)
http://www.fileplanet.com/86368/80000/fileinfo/Su
Has anyone besides myself noticed that at some point, the games became less about roleplaying and more about the rules? When did the rules lawyers become the new priesthood? People collect D&D3 books like they were stamps or baseball cards.
I can name a dozen RPGs that have rules so simple you can learn them in five minutes. The only thing they have in common is that they are usually superior in imagination and quality to the popular games, as well as unknown and ignored by the majority of roleplayers, as you can see simply by glancing at the games being run at conventions like GenCon. Page after page, and nothing but D20 and derivatives.
The rules aren't optional for the players. For this new breed of gamer, if it's written, it's the law. They've paid their thirty dollars for Tips and Tricks of Thievery Volume 7 Version 5 and by god, that book is the final word. How many games have you been in where one of the players tries to use these rules to push the GM around, and gets angry if they are denied?
Watching two rules lawyers at odds is like watching some perverse mental fencing match, and for fifteen minutes nothing gets done while the sacred rules of the game are read from dusty tomes in voices of hused awe and righteous fury. I used to laugh at it, but now it's just getting old.
D20 strikes me as one of the worst things to ever happen to the industry, and I mean that very sincerely. The unique, creative rules for each individual game used to be part of that game's atmosphere. Learning the new rules and seeing the new ways of doing things was part of the fun of playing a new game. It was not work. I can still remember how pleased I was when I first picked up Deadlands (a wild west RPG) and found the designers had worked in poker chips and playing cards as part of the system.
Now everything new just slaps D20 on because it's easy instead of getting creative, or because if they don't they'll be ignored by gamers who can't be bothered to learn a different paradigm for a change. D20 became the mindshare monopoly that GURPS always wanted to become.
If you like your D20, that's fine, but don't laugh when I tell you that you simply don't know what you're missing. There are games where the game is about what happens in the game, not about the rules defining the way the game works.
I can take one of these simple games, walk into a convention, pick up a half dozen gamers, and usually give them a session better than anything they've had in the last couple of years, all on a game they didn't even know how to play ten minutes ago. I am not that good at GMing, either. I much prefer to play. The reason they enjoy it is because it is unknown. They don't know the setting, they don't know all the rules or all the details, they can't predict every nuance of the game in their heads, and they know there's no arguing with the GM... things are just too simple. All that's left is story and roleplaying. That's where most of the fun is.
Sorry for the rant, but I was laughing at the idea of needing another revised expanded edition of the Dungeon Master's Guide. A stack of all of WoTC's D20 books over the last couple of years could probably build a bridge over the Mississippi river.
Hell is being intelligent in a world full of idiots.
I don't think it is worth it's cost. I've went through this book and opted out. At it's price point it certainly can't beat the effective utility of scores of existing netbooks with plot points, adventure hooks, and character concepts ready to roll with perhaps some tweaking for edition revision and suiting them to your own campaign. This book should be lower in priority than purchasing new monster manual books or even a campaign book that has much of the information the DMG II has but suited to a specific world. With the monster manual you can create endless possible organizations and societies and slowly introduce new elements by allowing monstrous races. It's ceiling is much higher than one offered by a DMG supplement. What I would find much more useful is better DM screens for groups of varied experience levels.
This is completely different from 3E -> 3.5E. My hesitation to convert was mostly monetary. Buying new books becomes very painful. For the money, an older book of plots and hooks are of greater value and utility. Besides, when you do digging like that, you have a greater chance of surprising a group of experienced players or bringing back feelings of nostalgia. A PC that reads the DMG II may not find the application of the things within the book as impactful as if one was to use old/net books that are distributed blisfully cheap-or-free. Besides... the internet is the best resource. WotC has a random tavern generator, there are a handful of random treasure/npc/town generators. I hope very much that this book doesn't do well. WotC is printing money every month. Accessory books for just about every class at $20+ price points seconds before pumping out new core books and rules is a slap in the face. This isn't a Pokemon card game that WotC is holding randsom, but it's fell into an enterprise structure that treats it like it is. New cards/rules/books = money for rehashing the same thing and enumerating possible ideas and elminating them from creativity. Thanks for CRAFTING a Ninja prestige class for a Medieval-fantasy game. I couldn't have possibly done it myself :|.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/2001--
"pain is weakness leaving the body."I would probably buy it if it had some sort of meta-system for designing balanced core classes. One of my beefs with the D20 system is that it's too tied in with the established gaming worlds, and it's too hard to build your own campaign from the ground up if it's way different that the established worlds. Inclusion of the aforementioned meta-system would go far to alleviate that problem.
"Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber" -- Plato
Yes but the online SRD (free rules online) has differences from the material in the book. For instance the skill a ranger gets at second level.
For the most part the SRD is useful but you'll find some differences here and there but not enough to cause major problems with casual play.
Curses! I thought this was a followup to Dieselboy's brilliant 2004 mixtape entitled "The Dungeonmasters' Guide". Not that super-evil drum & bass fits with D&D that well...
the fool who deigns to comment on said fools. Or the fool who comments on the foolishness of the aforementioned fool. Or the fool who....STACK OVERFLOW
You rule.
ogg
Black cat, searing pain, flames...? I must be in Heaven! - Homer Simpson
A prospective Game Master (or Dungeon Master) has to utilize interpersonal communications, mathematics, creative writing, acting, and endless stores of patience in order to successfully draw a group of players into a gaming experience.
That's why I'm going to Devry.
=======
Science -- Sealed, Delivered.
I tuned in to this thread mostly for the inevitable +5 funnies, but I think it bears mentioning that Busta Rhymes name checks Dungeons and Dragons in A Tribe Called Quest's The Scenario. Not only was this one of the seminal songs of the era, but many would say that Busta's famous verse in that song is what catapulted his career to the level that it is now (his group, leaders of the new school was a floundering cutesey mess). While the verse is an exercise in non-sequiters and nonsense, his delivery and vocal style were innovative, fresh and imbued with an explosive energy, and he stole the stage right out from under the questers.
.. These dungeon masters NEVER get laid.
Watch, as I combine all the juice from the mind
Heel up, wheel up, bring it back, come rewind
Powerful impact BOOM! from the cannon
Not braggin, try to read my mind just imagine
Vo-cab-u-lary's necessary
When diggin into my library
Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh!
Eating a toadstool like the one Peter Tosh-a
UH uh UH, all over the track, man
UH, pardon me, UH, as I come back
As I did it yo I had to beg your pardon
When I travel to the Sun I roll with the squadron
RRRRRROAW RRRRRRROAW like a dungeon dragon
Change your little drawers cause your pants are saggin
what were we talking about again? Oh yeah
music lover since 1969
I noticed right away no associated picture with the news story. Any reason why?
Jesus saves...everyone else takes 2d20 crushing damage
But really, the best rules were the totally incoherent 2nd edition rules for AD&D. Yes, I loved that it was a pain in ass and led to so many arguments. That was part of the game! Now everything is too sterile.
But the 2nd edition rules also pushed me and my friends into different game systems. Anybody remember "Fantasy Hero"? or "Danger International"? Probably not. We were some of the few that actually played that system on a regular basis. It was fun.
But nothing topped "Call of Cthulhu". Going back to AD&D after that was painful...so we rarely did.
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
It was a crime against humanity.
RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
You know, some of my fondest game playing memories are from AD&D, esp. DM'ing adventures. I've played a lot of RPG video games since, everything from Wizardry to Bard's Tale and everything afterward, and not one of them comes even close to D&D.
Sure, some of the video games are great, and the networked games are a step in the right direction, but nothing beats a room full of people rolling dice, hamming it up, and generally having a great time.
At the end of the day, there's really no substitute for good ol' fashioned human interaction.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
It's hard to be both. Whenever I DM (which, granted, hasn't been for a long time), I use stats and such more as a guide, rather than strict rules, which makes the game a lot more fun for the people in the game (and for me.. no rules lawyering).
Basically, I have a base story in mind, a guideline, and I wing-it. I keep the game challenging, but not impossible. I keep it fun. Someone says "I want to bash down this door".. I look at his strength (16), and say.. "ok.. roll a D20", and just make up a DC relative to how strong the door probly is, and that 16 strength. I do the same thing with people trying To Hit, no exact numbers (and I never tell the guys the numbers), I modify things on the fly if the opponents are too hard and everyone's about to die.. I make up exp points and treasure based on how thrashed the party got.. it really makes for a fun time for everyone, and keeps the game moving.
Aren't games supposed to be fun?
-- Jinsaku
Full list
Big Eyes Small Mouth. TriStat DX system. Reminiscent of old-school Traveller with its minimalist rules. More role-playing, less roll-playing. I love it. AD&D D20 is still too complex for my tastes, and the AD&D system out in the 1980s was totally nuts with requiring bags full of polyhedra and a roll for almost every move.
http://www.guardiansorder.com/games/tristat/
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Here, Here! No truer words could be spoken as far as D&D/AD&D goes.
I ran a campaign for most of the 90's where we used the original PH, DMG, FF, etc; All the books before the 2nd edition crap came out.
As you say, after they got rid of Gygax, it became extra lame and cheezy. They wanted D&D'ers to fork over $$$ to buy lame new 'guides' with rule re-writes that didn't need to be done. Yes, there were a few things that needed revision, but on the whole, the 1st edition system was good.
In addition we added many of our own rules for things like critical hits, new spells, etc; This in itself was great, as it allowed our group to fine tune the game and add our own spin on things.
The best modules were anything written by Gygax, especially the Giants/Drow series!
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
...about dumb shit like this that makes me ashamed to read Slashdot sometimes...
whats the name of my dj one more time whats the name of my dj dave trouble thank you for bringin' it back to the cultural relevance it has...d&d is still part of our landscape /'ers aside. and if you don't believe me
check out this link courtesy of bb
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pumpkin/23610215/in/s et-538104/
any yea i quit gamin' for a long time coz i was gettin' laid...still reflect fondly on one of the best dm's i ever had the pleasure of gaming with...(tony heath if i can out ya...sprngtex83), ofcourse i don't recall it as fondly as bustin' a nut at 70 on i-5 headin' oughta seattle in a civic stickshift with a delicious blond on my lap... :O put that in your gamepipe an' puff it.
peace
You know...I find this hilarious. Everyone who barely has a life away from their computer is bashing the people who play Table Top RPG's for having no life.
Meanwhile, let's ignore the fact that a table top rpg requires you to socialize face to face with other people normally.
A significant portion of these "other people" are gamer, geek females. A subculture of geeks that 90% of you would cream yourself to just meet...and I hang out with 3 of them, all single, on a weekly basis. The last 10 girlfriends I've had over numerous years, including the most recent, my current wife, have all been gamers.
News flash, bashing rpg's for being too geeky went out of style in the late 1980's..when something more geeky came along, the PC.
One day I dug up all my old AD&D stuff, including first editions of all the original books, and tons of modules including some obscure ones. I thought since I wasn't using them I could put them up on eBay, but after perusing the auctions, even 30+ year old, mint versions of this vintage material, it's hard to sell them even for their original face value. Pretty depressing in more ways than one.
Bah! Give me the Arduin Grimoires any day of the week.
When I was 14 or so, I had a friend once with too much time on his hands... He made this RPG once that we all played, but I'd never seen anything like it before. It was actually quite fun too (pehraps more because of the people not the rules)...
Anyway, instead of traditional formulas/modifiers and dice rolls, he made tables. He had tables for almost any event you could think of in the game. Some for attacking, some for defending, for lock-picking, even for love-making (sad indeed).
On one side of the table was a die roll--usually d20, but sometimes d100. The top was some other factor (like your skill or attribute related to the action in question or another modified die roll, perhaps). And inside the table when cross-referenced was the result of that action.
This guy had pages and pages of tables he had drawn up on graph paper. It was mind-blowing! He had written down sometimes very detailed results in these tables, many of which essentially role-played for you. Like one of the attack results might have been, "The attack does x 10 damage. If killed, the target is decapitated, launching its head into the nearest wall or ground" or [for picking locks] "Your pick breaks and cuts your finger (Failure)". He had written up by hand hundreds and hundreds of these results within an indexed binder (before computers were affordable).
It was mind-numbing how much time he had apparently spent on it. I mean, I had made some basic RPGs in my day, but nothing like that...
The problem I have with d20 is not that it creates standardized rules. In theory a standardized set of core rules could lead to more creative individual game suppliments and worlds. But that's only if the game system itself is open-ended and flexible enough to allow for wide variety without necessitating endless reams of additional world-specific rules.
One of the worst things about D&D and the d20 system is its emphasis on classes. Sure, characters can multiclass, but that only adds to the confusion. I find it much more interesting when characters are not identifiable as being of a certain class. Classes are essentially templates, and even when you modify them by creating many options within the class, you're still creating an artificial and needlessly confusing system.
I heartily concur with you that story and roleplaying are at the heart of truly satisfying roleplaying. Rules facilitate great games, but too many rules bury the game in the overhead of excessive die rolls and rules consultations.
I'm part of group of friends who have known each other since high school, when we spent a lot of time gaming. We are now all approaching our 40s, and for many years we have only been able to get together infrequently at best for gaming sessions. But when we do get together, usually I GM a game. Recently we have experimented with games in which the players don't even have standard character sheets.
They know their relative strengths and weaknesses, and have a list of what things they're good at and to what relative degree. The game mechanics are invisible to the players. I let them know when they have to make a good roll, and what it is for, but other than that, the certainty of numbers is removed from the equation altogether.
When your character is hit and bleeding, feeling woozy and impaired in his ability to fight; but you as a player don't know how many hit points the character has left (or even how many he had when healthy), it puts the uncertainty back into the game and forces a player to think like a character.
This approach doesn't work all the time, and I don't recommend it as the be all, end all of pencil and paper gaming, but to me it's a reminder that roleplaying games are about letting your imagination take charge.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
"I could respond that not only am I a happily married uber-RPG geek (The "writes his own RPGs" type), or that not a single one of my players, past or present, remains a virgin, or that a suprising number of women play RPGs and, thus, make them actually a way to be MORE likely to get laid."
Quality, not quantity buddy...
Quality, not quantity buddy...
;)
Yes. Because we all know that a woman starving herself and never thinking about anything more than how she looks in a dress makes for GREAT lovemaking.
Well, *I* know the folloy of that. I won't presume to speak for you, but maybe someday you to can actually have sex.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
sex is definitely a better distraction from reality than D&D
something should be here besides this dumb message
That'd make it truly unique.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
Our roleplaying group gave this a once-over this past Saturday, unless you're creating a world from scratch, don't bother. If you *are* creating a world, it may be worth a looksie.
Yes, I am a smart ass; it's better than the alternative.
Savage worlds. I think you'll like it.
It's a little odd to get the 'feel' for it, but it's easy, and once you relize you don't need a rule for everything, it becomes quite enjoyable and fun.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
A few months into my tour (Camp Hovee) I started gaming with a GM who didn't use notes, aides, screens; none of the usual stuff. He just seemed to pull it all from his head, and make the calls (mostly) without dice. But, if he did reach for "The Book" it was time to take cover! Good times, those.
... well, "rules observance."
The best games seem to be when everyone focuses on just playing/telling the story, instead of getting caught up on points and dice and attributes and
Nice to know the dice are still rolling.
Savage Worlds.
Not the d20 version.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Basic D&D is still good stuff. You can easily fix those little problems with a couple house rules or just with some good roleplaying. And the manuals are cheap, they printed literally millions of them back in the day. I've bought some on ebay for $5...
And if you get the Basic and Expert sets and you can run entire campaigns, even though those rules add up to only 128 pages total. That's a far cry from the latest pagecount in 3.5 edition (just short of 1000 pages in the PHB/DMG/MM core rules).
Though I wouldn't begrudge your fondness for the original AD&D, the one aspect of it I'm glad to see "corrected" in later editions is the unarmed combat system... As written in first edition, it was basically unusable unless you wanted to mire yourself in hours of dice rolling. The complexity didn't really add anything to the game.
-- "This world is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."
AD&D is the McDonalds of roleplaying games. Sorry, that's not fair to McDonalds. Let me rephrase that. AD&D is the Windows of roleplaying games. People play AD&D (or d20) for the same reason people eat Big Macs or browse with Internet Explorer: they either don't know there's something better, or they're too lazy to switch.
Yes, I know AD&D is popular. But so Windows and McDonalds. The only d20 games that are in any way worthwhile are those that managed to sneak in a decent campaign to go with the crappy rules. So it still baffles me after twenty five years why people still play AD&D. Why? I gave second edition another chance, but it wasn't much of an improvement. I have third edition yet another chance, but it still lacks a fundamental quality.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Fantasy Hero is alive and well, part of the Hero 5th Edition Revised and Expanded system. www.herogames.com
But I want to cast Magic missle!
becasue they know a surprising amount of people will go ouot and rebuy the core books. Even though they gave a free erratta for 3.0 players.
Sad really.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"...hey actually listened to players and made a bunch of revisions and clarifications that make the game more fun than 3..."
they listened to some players, and did a pick and choose of which changes they like.
thus making the mechanics more like a video game.
Quite frankly, I have not been able to find anyione who likes the spell changes. The duration of many of the new spells has rendered them useless.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I've been reaing this in stages at the local Borders, and I've come to a conclusion. It is nauseating.
:(
I wonered why it seemed like i had read it before, down to the point of being able to accurately predict what would be on the next page. Then I went home and cracked out my issues of Dragon...and found out why. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE WORD IN HERE WAS PREVIOUSLY PRINTED IN DRAGON MAGAZINE!
Now tht isn't necessarrilly a bad thing, since the articles they reprinted-without-credit-to-author were actually DAMN good. What is disgusting is the fact that this is being presented as "new" material, that is is not properly credited, and the material that actually IS new...is nothing but attempts to justify why they ignored the rules and advice they just gave ?!?!?!
Take the Prestige Classes section for isntance. It says pretty clearly that no PrC should be inherently more powerful than a base class without accurately paying for that power with "dump requirements", and to NEVER provide unfettered access to the primary role of two base classes (such as a fighter's high BAB and a wizard's spellcasting). Then they try to say that the Eldritch Knight (fighter/wizard with the best of both, and no "dump requirements" AT ALL) and Mystic Theurge (wizards that get free cleric spellcasting levels, again no requirements to speak of) EXEMPLIFY what you SHOULD do with a PrC?!?!
Piss off WotC. I will NEVER buy a damn thing from this company full of hacks again.
All the discussion about D&D is interesting, but what did you think of the review, guys? I thought this was a well written and well thought out review. The comments on Saltmarsh and the business system in particular make me want to at least page through the book.
One thing I'd like to know is what does the "II" in "Dungeon Master's Guide II" actually mean? I own a full set of the First Edition books, a few of the 2nd Edition and the 3rd Ed DMG and PH. I've lost interest in re-buying this stuff, but I hear it's up to 3.5 or something now. So when the reviewer calls the new book "a worthy successor to the original Dungeon Master's Guide" I sort of wonder which one he considers "original."
So I have a quick thread hijack question here.
I got the d20 modern book(crap as far as the system and classes are concerned) and I got some ideas from it. I am thinking of running a game set in the modern world that consists of all greenskin PCs(no, not politically correct). But what is the best system I can use?
I have looked at Shadowrun; and though it is pretty good, it is too based on being in the future. I would like to use the cyberpunk rules but I do not know a good way to mod them for use with non-human races. I am stuck here.
P.S. My dream game would be a gang of goblins/snotlings living in the 'burbs trying to make do squating. I have also thought of using "call of chthulu"'s insanity point system but in reverse, i.e. the more "normal" stuff the goblin gang sees, the more crazy they go.
Any help?
A blog about stuff.
Could it be that the AD&D world has just cottoned on to a book that the Rolemaster game has had for years?
For a good read on interesting topics for a GM, GM Law really does the trick. It's not geared solely to Rolemaster either, but covers a whole range of topics and ways of running a story (fast and loose rules of thumb that are of interest, rather than hard rules).
The review is great. I completely agree, the new DM handbook is a good piece of work and will definitely cut down the start-up time for the casual or time-limited GM.
Brain
I've literally had campaigns killed by rules lawyering.
A story that some might enjoy, though without all the details that make it really fun.
The rules lawyer had been out to get me for a while, since I was playing my character in a manner that opposed his, given that I was a priest and he was a technocrat. He convinced the DM and the rest of the party, that the party would be better if my priest died.
Thus the DM proceeded to bring in his buddy, the UberDM, to create a 100% perfect kill for my character. So, I died, and rolled up a new character.
The new character, a ranger, got thrown into the party without a reason to join them. He ends up traveling with them mostly to cut down on the danger, and spends his time being cunning but impulsive.
I end up a little bored after a nasty encounter, where the rules lawyer argued with the DM over size issues, and the DM called the UberDM for a ruling.
Thus, when the next challenge, a huge cliff with a lake at the bottom comes up, I do the math and leap on the cliff, figuring that I'd survive unless the dm rolled 9 sixes. The odds of that are huge, and I'm willing to lose a character over odds like that.
However, the rules lawyer wasn't, and spent the next 90 minutes trying to argue how the damage from the fall should be calculated, and a variety of other things.
It was at this point that 2 of the players left, and in the end, it was just the DM and the Lawyer arguing, while I sat there.
They put out 1 setting specific book and 1 splatbook a month ... so no, relatively the time spend on this book isnt significant.
What kind of system you use should depend on how much system-detail you want in your game, and what kind of feel you would like the game to have. There possibly isn't any system which is perfect for what you want to do, but you could just nick the mechanic from somewhere and ignore the rest, since you seem to want to use the setting from the sourcebook you have.
Have you ever looked at the Unknown Armies system? It has nice, simple mechanics and some good ideas which I think can be used in any setting.
It's based on a percentile roll. Under special circumstances, you can flip your dice to get a different result (for example, change 93 to 39). Doubles are extraordinary failures or successes (since they can't be flipped). There's a botch and an amazing success. Damage is calculated from the attack roll (something I really like). There is a list of skills, but you can make up your own skills as well. There is a psychological well-being gauge which is more complex than Cthulhu's sanity system, and which may or may not be appropriate for you depending on what your setting is like.
The advantages: it's dead simple. There is no adding of millions on numbers together, and no flipping through the book to find Obscure Rule no. 349, clause A: "Fighting with your off-hand uphill in the rain while under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs". The system is designed for character-based games - special abilities that characters have are based directly on important parts of their personality. This means that a character's history and personality are actually important to the game, and not just a veneer of flavour painted over combat stats.
Disadvantages: because it's so simple and freeform, it can be broken and abused by power gamers and rules lawyers. People who like having well-defined boundaries and rules for what can happen will probably not like the vagueness. The DM cannot rely on an encyclopaedic reference of cases to fall back on in the case of a dispute, and will have to wing it. The players have to trust the DM's judgement in situations where no rule exists and a decision has to be made (that bit, mind you, is true of any similar freeform gaming system). The combat system is very simple (although I'm sure you can add various weapon bonuses and things to make it more complex), which may not please people who like complex combat systems.
I think the system is great for once-off adventures with pre-generated characters. I've never played in a campaign (although I know of several successful campaigns), so I don't know if the vagueness becomes a problem over time. I imagine it depends on the GM and the players.
Most of the UA sourcebooks deal with the UA setting; I don't think the section with the rules themselves is very long. If you want to check them out I suggest *cough* borrowing the book from a friend *cough*.