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Microsoft Vista Info Leaked
slashnutt writes to tell us Yahoo News is reporting that Microsoft accidentally released information about Windows Vista earlier than originally planned. From the article: "Microsoft disclosed information about a plan to release eight different editions of the new operating system on a company help page that was under development. The company has not made any official statements about the different versions of Windows Vista it plans to offer. The company has since taken down the Web site and declined to confirm the information and said it will offer more details about the Vista launch, targeted for the second half of 2006, in the coming weeks. Microsoft spokesman said in a statement 'This page has since been removed as it was posted prematurely and was for testing purposes only.'"
Windows Vista Starter (designed to combat piracy of Windows overseas; probably won't go on sale in US)
Windows Vista Home Basic
Windows Vista Home Premium
Windows Vista Business Basic
Windows Vista Business Premium
Windows Vista Corporate Basic
Windows Vista Corporate Premium
Windows Vista Ultimate
While I'd really like to believe otherwise, I cannot help but think that this will turn into a nightmare for application support. The ones that worry the most are the two at either end of the line: Starter and Ultimate. Will you need Ultimate to run top-of-the-line games or use top-of-the-line hardware? Will people with Starter not be able to use your program because they're missing certain functionality? Will you be able to burn DVDs with Home Basic, or does that functionality only come with Premium and Ultimate?
Sure, each version will be tailored to that particular end user's most likely needs. You can bet, however, that there'll be all sorts of "incentives" to bump yourself up to the next level of functionality in the form of "well, that functionality only comes with version X"...
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Too bad Microsoft didn't put Allah on the page. Then Yahoo would be censoring this report too.
Which basically confirms the 8 versions. It's not like the web developer pulled them out of his bum.
So does that mean that there will be 8 different versions? Or just 8 different help sections on the help page? I must admit that my mind somehow automatically checked when I read this if we are already at the beginning of April...
I don't read replies by ACs.
There will be several different versions such as Windows Vista Red and Blue. They are all pretty much the same, but if you want to complete the game you'll need some friends with the other versions, and some link cables.
My Greatest Heist - Muisc partly inspired by the unbeatable Qwantz
With its thousands and thousands of "versions" (distributions).
I'll take eight, over eight-thousand.
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
'This page has since been removed as it was posted prematurely and was for testing purposes only.'"
Testing what, the waters?
-- Alastair
I'm sorry to hear that Microsoft is the latest sufferer of this common problem. I'd like to help them out; I get a number of advertisements in my inbox each day offering various treatments for premature release. Perhaps someone can forward these emails to Microsoft?
From the MS spokesman: "We are known for giving our users choice, this is what's great about capitalism!"
I already imagine chairs flying around in Microsoft's dark office...:P
Per Aspera Ad Astra.
Someday we'll look fondly upon the days when you could just ask if someone is running "98" or "XP," maybe with "SP2." Very soon the abbreviations alone will take up several alphabets.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Microsoft needs to go away. F-them. Why "f-them", they are just trying to make more money, like every other business on this planet.
Cheers, Jared
http://phoenix-network.org
Have they leaked which of these versions will run Halo 2?
Or will it be included as a pack in?
There is no spork.
FP
Uh..to get the first post?
http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/19/which-windows-
"Windows Starter 2007 - Vista without Aero, probably meant for developing nations.
Windows Vista Home Basic - Basic Windows Vista for your single PC fam, doesn't sound like much going on here. Analagous to XP Home.
Windows Vista Home Basic N - European version of the same, but without Media Player (because of antitrust rulings against MS in the EU).
Windows Vista Home Premium - This is the one we're all probably gonna own. It's got Media Center functionality, Cable Card support, the whole home-media shebang.
Windows Vista Business - Think of it as XP Pro, but Vista.
Windows Vista Business N - Think of it as XP Pro, but Vista, but Euro.
Windows Vista Enterprise - Business version of Vista with numerous enterprise features, like Virtual PC, volume encryption, etc.
Windows Vista Ultimate - Love that name. This one does all of the above (and more); what else do you need to know? It's ultimate Windows.."
More choices are rarely a bad idea. I dislike bundled crapola that I'll never need or want.
Windows Vista for Developing Nations Windows Vista for Dummies Windows Vista for Planned Obsolence Edition Windows Vista for Virtual Vista Deployment Edition - Professional Windows Vista for your Inner Fast(tm) Edition Windows Vista with Digital Rights Management Media Edition Windows Vista Corporate *Windows Vista for Secure Computing * please note this edition will be released at a future unannounced date.
I like the comment that was made on Blue's News about the Vista line when the story first broke.
Vista DOS
Vista WFW
Vista 95
Vista 98
Vista ME
Vista XP
Vista la Vista
Perhaps it's more a case of bad feedback which resulting in them pulling a 180 on the whole 8 flavors idea?
I am amazed at the amount of times this sort of thing happens with Microsft. And I have to agree with some of the sentiment about how lame Vista is looking. You sort of wonder if one day we are all going to say, "Wow, this is actualy cool. Microsoft has managed to reinvent the wheel and advanced the whole world of technology..."
What? It could happen.
Oh, ok. It's all good as long as they were just trying to turn a profit. "That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard" "No, you don't understand - they want to make a buck" "Oh, I didn't know that.... in that case, it's fucking brilliant."
Cheap shot even by Slashdot standards, I know.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
I found a pretty good analysis of the various editions.
Windows Vista for Developing Nations
Windows Vista for Dummies
Windows Vista for Planned Obsolence Edition
Windows Vista for Virtual Vista Deployment Edition - Professional
Windows Vista for your Inner Fast(tm) Edition
Windows Vista with Digital Rights Management Media Edition
Windows Vista Corporate
*Windows Vista for Secure Computing
* please note this edition will be released at a future unannounced date.
More like 'How can we see how people will react to this idea but maintain deniability if they hate it?' If it's liked, fine. If it isn't the story will be 'oh that was an old plan - here's what we're really doing.'
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
The real story is that, like with many MS products, there are different versions for different levels (and budgets) of users.
There's really only five versions, the other three are stripped down to comply with EU rulings or to (try to) thwart piracy.
I don't think those three versions should be thought of in the sense of the traditional home/pro/enterprise/whatever.
I hate the idea of having 8 editions. For one, as already said, application support will be a nightmare. Also, all 8 editions aren't going to be widely used.
Only one Official Linux Kernel exist !
A lot of distribution exist !
But, exception of application, all version from a same vendor have all the same base !
Look at Mandriva Linux, you get get three versions of the last (2006) distribution, the only difference is the application that come with. You can run a Apache server on all of them !
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
Windows Vista Home Basic (also in N)
Windows Vista Home Premium
Windows Vista Business (also in N)
Windows Vista Enterprise
Windows Vista Ultimate
In the US there should be just 5 versions, currently counting media center they have 3 versions of XP. I would have to see what they come with and how much they are charging for them before I decide if the extra 2 version are a good idea or not.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
fedora, ubuntu, suse, debian, rhel, slackware.... the list goes on and on. There are many things to complain about with Microsoft software, but let's not be hypocritical.
1) Whoever pirates Windows won't bother pirating anything but the "Ultimate" version, whatever that will be.
2) Legit users will get frustrated when they find out feature X is not included in their version of Vista. They will want to know why and will become angry. This anger will soon make them want to change to something more simple.
3) Something more simple will eventually win the hearts of legit users.
4) Whoever pirates Windows will follow whatever is the most popular/compatible OS.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
All functionality is available or is installable with one command-line (even if it's "tar xzvf some.tgz; cd some-versin; make; sudo make install" in most (all?) linux distros; nobody is hiding anything nor making anything incompatible on purpose. So, no, the 2000 different linux distros will be actually less confusing than the eight Windows Vistas.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I mean, when we use FCKGW to start entering the serial number, I'm sure it wont be the home edition we're using.
Or Insightful, +1 or Underrated, +1 -- if you with mod points want to give Yaa 101 a boost on his karma.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
You don't know that. When I used to develop databases, I would fill the test databases with dummy data. Sometimes it was complete nonsense utterly unrelated to the purpose of the database (and obviously incorrect--e.g., a customer list database could contain names of characters from a TV show). Sometimes, I would fill the test database with information that was my "best guess" as to what would be in the database. E.g., one may fill a products database with their best guess of what the names of the products are. That could easily be the case here. The web designer filled in dummy data to make sure the layout of the page is correct.
This isn't any big deal, other than it gives the slashdotters something else to exagerate and complain
about. MS Office was released in several different versions as well (Standard, Small Biz,
Professional, Premium,... student edition].
It's not a big deal. I'll tell now you know that although 8 versions of Windows are offered, only 2
version will primarily be sold. Homes will buy one version, while corporations and 'power users' may
buy another. I have no clue why they are offering so many versions this time, the only thing I can
think of is that it's worked well in the past so they are going to milk that cow again. No one is
forcing us to buy all 8 versions, it's simply an option.
the posters on this board from complaining tho.
It's not like the web developer pulled them out of his bum
:)
However, that would adequately explain why Windows is shit
Matt
I'm sure Gentoo will have something to say about stealing their business model.
Does anyone else see this as a manufacturer and consumer nightmare? Selling 8 versions of the same PC with nothing but different OS version? I mean, will different machines be tailored to different versions of the OS in retail stores? If that's the case then you'll not only have to choose the OS based on it's own merits, but on the merits of the machines that will run it. I can only see this as a huge leap backward in every computing aspect, but then again, it's the world that chooses to follow MS, so we have but ourselves to blame. --- Go Linux!
Semper Fi
What? MS is bending to the will of a foreign land and obeying their laws? That makes them as bad a
Google! Let's start protesting!
... yes, it's sarcasm.
And I've got a bridge you really need to look at.
Seriously, Voxel even specified "distributions". You are discussing kernel versions a completely different topic.
Jesus Fucking Christ man. Don't be such a zealot that you can't comprehend a valid point in opposition to your cherished perspective.
anon so the fan boys don't slit my karma's throat
(;-{)}
bamph
Is it just me or does this seem like a free marketing campaign?
;)
I mean seriously...we "leaked" this info...oops (::wink wink::)
Plus, wasn't this news months ago ?
Oh, I guess they added another one
Given that Vista is going to be here from 2006 through to 2009 at least one big concern is surely how it supports multi-core as Windows hasn't always been the best SMP machine (event Data Center tops out at 64 way, 64 bit). With people like Sun releasing 32 way CPUs recently its not unreasonable to expect AMD and Intel to be pushing that barrier or more in 2009.
I've not seen much around Vista and SMP, which is odd given that its the current hardware buzz in the market.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
>> "anon so the fan boys don't slit my karma's throat"
;)
Just mildly anonymous, eh?
I think all the versions are just to confuse the pirates. Man, I hope I download the proper one...
Saving the World: One Drink at a Time
Cheers,
Bill
bamph
Darnit, just eight versions? What about Embedded Home, Embedded Automotive, Embedded for Point of Service, Mobile, Workstation, Media Center Edition, Datacenter Edition, Server, Server System Home, Storage Server, Small Business Server Edition, and Compute Cluster Server edition?!?!? I feel shortchanged already!
And Yahoo!, I hope you don't really think that this was an accidental blunder on MS's part. If so, then I have a bridge in San Francisco I'd like to sell you...
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
Jesus fucking christ, don't be so ignorant. The only limitation to a Linux installation is the kernel. Anything else can be added without even rebooting.
But that's besides the point. The point is that there is no company or other entity telling someone what they can and can't do with their Linux installation just because they didn't pay enough money. Unlike this case with Windows where people will have to make trade offs between how much they want to spend and what they want to do with their OS.
So complaining and comparing the many Linux distros to these 8 Windows versions is fucking retarded. I can choose any of the top 8 Linux distros and be able to do anything in the Linux world easily.
But if I choose the budget version of Windows and find that it won't let me do something, well then I'm shit out of luck.
it terminates your license and removes your computers hard drive with a 12 guage. It's then known as "Hasta-la-VISTA", babee.
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
... http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_edit ions.asp
The above link was out for quite a while. Not exactly sure how accurate it is. But it seems pretty close.
Comparing fresh, clean well water to dirty Mexican bacteria infested sludge isn't a very fair comparison.........
Windows Vista Tabbed
"More choices are rarely a bad idea. I dislike bundled crapola that I'll never need or want."
I agree, but I think eight baseline distributions will be a nightmare for them to support, and a nightmare for us to choose and upgrade between. One baseline "Windows Vista" would be sufficient, plus something like apt-get (ms-get media-player) or a nice little entry on the Microsoft Update page to "Install Cable Card Support", or "Install Media Player Support". You could even be guided through a shopping cart type environment, so they could charge for the "upgrades".
Why sell 8 distinct versions? Maybe better answered with another question - if I buy "Windows Home Premium", can I "upgrade" to "Windows Vista Business" for a reduced cost?
10b||~10b -- aah, what a question!
Because there is no -1 Fucking Moron.
I always find it amusing that on every Dell ad, they show off how cheap you can buy a Dell box, and thus show a Dell with Windows XP Home. Then in the fine print, it says "Dell recommends Windows XP Pro". So Dell recommends I don't buy this Dell computer? OK...
I love being in school right now--I will be able to get vista as soon as the school does. I currently download the site-licensed winXP off the school's intranet at no cost to me. Same for Office. Yes this is factored into my fees, but the assistantship I have reduces my cost considerably.
The truth? I hope the school gets vista before I finish my PhD or that I end up in a big corp where I can afford to make the purchase.
Why? Because although I love linux, there are certain apps that I need (SPSS anyone?) that I will either have to pay for myself or convince my company (whereever I end up) to purchase a linux version of the app or are simply unavailable on linux or OSX.
This is important. It cannot be avoided. Where I currently work Vista will only show up once Dell no longer offers XP. And maybe not even then.
"We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
What are you talking about? There are atleast 13 different versions of slashdot.
Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
Its not so retarded. Imagine you are a decision maker. Do you roll your own distribution? Or choose one off the shelf? If so which one? The guys argument may not have been delicately articulated, but its still a valid point. "Linux advocates" can hardly make negative comment about MS product range when in the Linux world the choice is even broader. Whether more choice is bad, or product ranges having missing features is a discussion on value which Linux may well win in terms of price/features (I mean how do you beat free? if not for total cost of onwership) is another matter. But he is right. I too would rather for general office automation at work choose an XP flavour from 8, than a Linux distribution from many many more (even if there are only a handful of serious choices)
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060220-6224 .html
She then heads home and proceeds to configure her new computer, but to her absolute dismay, she finds that she's unable to do everything that she was previously able to do (like burn CD's, or use DirectX applications) on her old Windowsw XP box. She calls MS support who gingerly inform her that "Oh, that functionality is only included in Windows Vista Ultimate Edition, which you can have for the low low price of $300". Sally has no choice but to pay for another copy of Windows
Or she can take the $400 she spent on the new PC and the $300 Microsoft wants for Windows Vista Ultimate Edition and just buy a fully loaded Mac Mini, thereby saving her the yearly AV subscription costs, the time running spyware scans, ect.
I already imagine chairs flying around in Microsoft's dark office...:P
Only in the rooms with sufficient processing power.
In the other rooms, you have to settle for flying chairs using the Classic Vista scheme, and no fade-in or fade-out effects.
Now if I could just get my sound card supported I'd be able to hear the crash from the flying chairs - instead I just get lockup and "Incompatible sound card" errors.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I've been to trying to switch from Windows to Linux for a year or so now, there are like a billion different distributions to choose from. 8 version of windows is alot of easier than say 100 or so linux distributions. Then you've got KDE vs Gnome and a whole bunch of other stuff.
I don't know, in the tech industry most web slip ups have revealed real info, like Apple's G5 slip. As webpages go, a lot of times the info is filled in and they are just waiting for the order to post it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Think you can replace Solitare with Halo 2 for Vista Ultimate?
nope sorry, just doesn't work as well.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Didn't it occur to anyone that Microsoft wanted this information to get out so that they could see what the reaction of the marketplace would be? My guess is there is will 4-6 versions of Vista max (Starter, Home, Pro, Europe, Ultimate, and possibly Media).
This was the exact thing he was worried about. When Jobs took over Apple in '97 or so, he found a company that had numerous product lines: 6100, 7100, 9600, 6113, and such. He asked a simple question: What would the customer think upon looking at all of these choices? When would a 6100 be appropriate but not a 6312? As he took over Apple, one on the best choices he made was slashing down the expansive product line, down to a.) the power Mac, and b.) the iMac (and of course the portables). (Refer to Macworld Conference 97)
What Microsoft has done has basically taken this principle and thrown it out the window. I have a feeling that aside from the estute few, most customers will not know which "version" of Windows Vista to pick. Contrary to what Microsoft thinks, sometimes a plethora of choices doesn't lead to customer happiness. If anything, the Microsoft support lines are going to be innundated with customers who _just can't understand_ their product scheme. (And as a side note, this may serve to drive buyers to a company that doesn't offer "limited" versions of its OS (e.g. Apple) ).
Haggador Sparticus.
-- Christopher M. Scordinsky Graduate Student Instructor Cell Biology and Biotechnology University of the Sciences i
The 'N' versions of Windows (Europe-only) will be simply ignored by the vast majority of buyers and retailers. Some retailers (maybe most) will not even stock the 'N' versions. Source:
Vista Enterprise Edition will only be available through volume licensing, so retail buyers won't see this version either. The IT folks who can buy Enterprise Edition are knowledgable enough not to be confused.So far, that leaves:
Since Vista Ultimate Edition is probably only for the uber-geek, most retail buyers will probably only need to choose from three versions: (1) Home Basic, (2) Home Premium, and (3) Business. For buyers of Windows PCs, that choice is similar today: XP Home, XP Media Center Edition, and XP Pro.TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Two versions:
OS X
OS X Server.
You choose what you want installed, plus they include developer tools with the regular version, and you get the full capability of the OS. Not only that, but any computer you buy includes the full install CD's, not just some "restore" CD's.
I don't see why Microsoft can't do that.
Well, what you say is more understandable. But still, it doesn't take much research to learn that if you need to pick a distro for a company you can't really go wrong with Redhat or SUSE.
But really, saying that there's too many Linux distros isn't what gets zealots like me all in a knot. What is really irritating about these Windows versions is that capability was taken out of some versions on purpose. Instead of making the product better, some "developers" have been paid to actaully make the product worse. Such insanity would never happen in the open source world. If I pick the 'wrong' distro at least it's functionality isn't being limited on purpose.
I think this is one way of advertising their new product. Well I wish them more luck because Open Source Techonolgy needs no advertising like what others do.
Sure, 8 new versions of Windows, but erhm, how many different flavors of Linux are there based on the same kernel? :)
"Microsoft Vista Info Leaked" is the title, but "Microsoft disclosed information" is in the summary. Which is it?
t ions.asp
See also: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_edi
http://brandonbloom.name
ROFL dude.. "Vista for Developing Nations" and it will come bundled on that new bright-green $100 laptop... !! hahaha
.. rofl
Practically spat out my coffee on the screen when I saw that
I remember one time from my days working at a grocery store. I know that sometimes leaks for people can be a problem, so I would help them out by directing them to isle 12. Bill, for your leak problem, here's a solution.
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
What does that mean? It's true that code compiled on one distro may not run on another distro--but then again it might (though certainly not between architectures). I've often found it does. But it depends on things like the relevant libs being the same or similar (or there at all), things being in places where the compiled code expects to find them, etc. It certainly is a crapshoot.
But one of the things I like about a (typical) Linux-based OS is that if all else fails, one can just grab a tarball of the source and compile away. The tools are already there, if not easily available. That is true for pretty much any standard "distro". I rather doubt that will be true of most, if any, of the various flavors of Vista, assuming that's how it is released.
It is true that to compile for one distro or another, one might need to pass a couple flags to ./configure or make a change or to to the makefile or something similar. These aren't things any newbie rolling off the turnip truck is going to know, but in most cases that doesn't matter, since most major distros have plenty of ready-made, packaged apps for their fan^Wuser base. It's very nice to have the additional capability (without jumping through major hoops), though. And IMO the ready availability of source is one of the really nice effects of the whole Open Source/Free Software thing.
fD
Vista will become the new definition for cripple ware. Oops, sorry can't run more than 10 network connections with that version, you need the business preimum version. That will be another $100 please. Oh, you want to run a web server, that is the business deluxe version, another $100 please and another $250 for the web server.
Oh, and by the way, if you want to upgrade from the home version to home premium version you have to reinstall. There will be no upgrade method provided. But then most Windows users are used to having to reinstall their systems at least once a year anyways to fix the mangled registry.
And the really neat feature is the license system will keep most people from being able to install the full blown non-crippled version of Vista. You won't be able to snag a copy from work and load it on your home systems, assuming you have powerful enough hardware, because it will have to check back with Microsofts central site before it will work. The same thing will happen when you change hardware on your system. Upgrade that harddrive, call Microsoft to reenable your system. Swap out video cards, call Microsoft to eanble it. Add more memory, call.......Oops! You have modified to many things and Microsoft won't reenable your system for you this time. You have to buy a new license.
Plan on using Vista on an isolated LAN with no Internet access? Sorry, you have to expose the machines at least once to the Internet to get them activated. Whoops! There goes security.
You are discussing kernel versions a completely different topic.
You've got to be kidding.
That's like saying that Dell and HP and IBM and etc. all sell different versions of windows because they all come prepackaged with different crippling spyware.
FanFictionRecs.net
I'm the opposite. I celebrate the diversity of Linux distributions. That diversity is what allows for many different to desktops, configuration managers, update methods, etc. By "decision maker", I assume you mean someone like a CIO/CTO. In that case, the decision maker has choices ranging from rolling his or her own to buying support from Novell/SUSE or Red Hat. Are you saying that that is a bad thing?
There are always trade-offs.
Red Hat dropped out of the consumer market. Linspire is anchored there.
The uber-Geek might be able to bend any randomly chosen Linux distro to his will. The reality is that most of us have to make choices.
Choices in hardware. Choices in software. Choices in technical support.
Time and money.
Please explain yourself. You've lost me JordanL.
bamph
I think the GP's point is that it can be, if you consider Linux as a "product", which is how a CIO/CTO would look at it. Choice is great, if you're informed/know what you're doing. But the C?O crowd might hear about how this Linux thing is great and stable and so forth, and then be overwhelmed by choice when he sees different "distributions" and not a single company or "product" or even a source of information explaining just what 'Linux', qua product, refers to.
After all, I am strangely colored.
Distros of Linux are, in many ways, packaging the same OS with a different face for people. Much like Dell computers come with different preloaded software than HP computers, different distros of Linux have different software packages.
What you are doing is essentially berrating Linux because it allows the vendor more prepackaging options than Windows, not less, and obfuscating a point that is moot: that no core functionality is ever lost between distros, and that only the ways in which it deals with software, not which software it can use, is changed.
FanFictionRecs.net
SLOW adoption. Even slower than WindowsXP. But in the end, as long as the industry chokehold lasts, people will buy the hardware so they can run the software because at some point there will be no choice. But let me tell you -- people are really starting to notice. Businesses are really starting to resent. At my company, we have an ambiguous goal to get off of Microsoft software. Server stuff is easy, but the desktop is simply unimaginable at the moment. But when the budgets start being examined after the question of replacing thousands of desktops is raised, they'll weigh their options once again and likely put more effort into a Linux desktop standard. I know my company isn't alone.
I would imagine that I could run a server off of Win Vista Starter just fine. Perhaps not the MS brand server, but I bet that apache would work just fine. Don't mistake "lacking features" for being "crippled."
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
"Leak" a "test" website, and gauge the potential customer response.
Quite clever.
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
The Wikipedia Windows Vista page has had the list for months now. Either Slashdot is reporting this story really late, or Microsoft's leaks are really late.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
fedora, ubuntu, suse, debian, rhel, slackware.... the list goes on and on ... let's not be hypocritical.
Oh really, so all those Linux distro producers are also creating artificial market segmentation in order to practice price discrimination in different markets with different points of elasticity?
No??
Then STFU, because the two situations really are completely different, and hence, nothing hypocritical about it at all.
Can you run a 10 year old application on OSX?
Unless you have an Intel mac, yes you can.
Can you run an OSX app on a 10 year old Mac? I'm running running OSX right now on a 7 year old computer, and I've read about people have gotten old performas (around 15 years old) to run Mac OSX.
CATS/Diebold '08- All your vote are belong to us!
So which one is the correct version to use if I just want to surf for lots and lots of porn with all the protection I need? Better yet, where is the "Windows Vista Porn" version? Heck, I mean they are releasing a "Windows Vista Ultimate" for the hardcore gaming junkies!
Market segmentation (with rate fences and aimed at price discrimination) is not the same as substitute competition. The latter is actually good for you.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This principle has won Apple what percentage of the desktop market?
I think the fact that I have more than a 1,000 Processor/MotherBoard/Memory/Video Card options is a blessing not a curse.
This is going to be the thought process of the average consumer: "Home... basic, sounds nice I live at home, hmmm premium sounds better maybe I'll get that. Business... I don't own a business... must not mean me. Corporate... how am I even finding a bulk license at Wal-Mart... this doesn't make any sense. Nerfed... Wow, I found one of 3 stores in the EU selling it, I should buy this and put it on Ebay as a collectible. And finally starter... well I am starting out, but it's in a gray box, and I'm standing in sewage in bengal, I think I'll buy food instead."
When I retire the Windows 2000 machine, that will be the end of Microsoft here.
The guys argument may not have been delicately articulated, but its still a valid point. "Linux advocates" can hardly make negative comment about MS product range when in the Linux world the choice is even broader.
I think the reason that this is being debated as a valid point, is because with Linux you have options, with Microsoft versions, you just have limitations. OSS and MS are different paradigms, and Microsoft's paradigm is to cripple their products built-in functionality to offer something a little bit more cost competitive.
JWall: GUI client for IPTables
So you are saying that decision makers are incapable of making a decision about which version of linux to use?
How did they come to be decision makers if lack the ability to evaluate 8 flavors of linux and choose one of them? An average person can choose between eight car manufacturers, eight cars from the same manufacturer, eight different detergents but a corporate decision maker is unable to choose from eight different distributions.
Having said that there are only a few popular distros to choose from and they are targeted. Novell/Redhat/Ubuntu for business. Gentoo, debian for the geeks.
evil is as evil does
Two pages of posts on this topic, the results are humerous.
/tmp/art* | grep -i linux | wc -l
/tmp/art* | grep -i vista | wc -l
[3]$ cat
115
[3]$ cat
132
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
"Free software discussions aside, do you think that is also unfair that one must pay more for a nicer car over a basic car? They both get you from point A to point B, but one has more amenities that some people want."
So if I got this right you are bitching that there is too much choice in Linux? If so, then here goes my rant...
All of Microsoft's problems with security as well as stability are rooted in the fact that they are homogeneous. Every Windows system is exactly like the next. The lack of diversity is what will always make them vulnerable regardless of the scheme they try next to patch it. It is a problem of their own doing.
Let me illustrate why diversity is not only preferrable but necessary...
Let's say you have a "managed forrest" of oaks. What do you think will happen when an oak disease breaks out in that forrest? you got it. They all get infected. Now, lets run the same scenario in a diverse forrest. That same oak disease won't affect the pines, maples, etc..In fact, if you have isolated pockets of oak a disease is less likely to spread. That is what diversity does.
Now, back to this topic. The diversity in Linux makes it stronger, not weaker. Regardless of the "version" of Windows you get it is still going to have the same features, structure, and vulnerabilities if the base is homogeneous.
B.
This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
...that was a craftily constructed press release, to get the rumor mongers looking the other way while the REAL Micrsoft Vista editions were being prepared. Our crack team of industrial spies and leet haxors has penetrated their secret "moat of delusion" defenses, and we have "gotten the facts":
The Microsoft Vista "Training Bra" version, for those who really want to be a boob, but aren't smart enough yet
The Microsoft Vista "Mommy, I'm a Big Boy Now!" edition, designed for those rascally young tykes who play videogames 24/7, but are going to "be into computers" at their daddy's firm once they get their degree.
The Microsoft Vista "Mom and Pop Store" edition, for those pretentious little merchants in downtown smalltown, USA, who "need" a computer with "sophisticated business software" to "leverage and maximise profitting potential" for their hotdog cart they keep parked out in front of Sam's Tire and Lube.
The Microsoft Vista "Money has No Conscious" edition, a special "hardened" military/industrial complex edition, which only has video support for black and white with no shades of gray, and has a biosensor to activate it that flashes "with us or against us" as a user boots it up.
The Microsoft Vista "CEO" addition, which is a special customised software and hardware edition that combines the exceptional ease of use and display qualities of an etch n sketch with a fabulous crystal decanter.
The Microsoft Vista Live CD "Certified Engineer Limited Edition" edition, which only works with the 102 key "natural" keyboard with that special "reinstall OS, print invoice" button
That's GNU/Leenux, thank you very much.
Its chosen for them, by the whoever sold them the PC.
So if Dell chooses to go with Home Premium, or whatever its called, then thats what ~70% of the people who buy Dell will use. Chances are, with no questions asked.
Dumb question.
If I buy a new machine and try to install a distro on it, but it doesn't work, how do I "just grab a tarball of the source and compile away"?
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
Seriously, though, I'm just responding to the statement "Code compiled on one distro... does not compile on other distro".
How did we start down the path of *installing* a distro?
To answer your question, I wouldn't even try. If had that issue, I'd probably
- search around for what my hardware issues might be
- burn or procure another installation medium, or
- try a different distro,
depending on the specifics of the installation failure.fD
There would be only one edition of Vista: The best one. Even the Ultimate edition is crippled on the server side, as to not compete with Server 2003. If Microsoft's market share were much smaller, they wouldn't have such an incentive to divide it up like this.
I'm not saying Microsoft should change their plan, or that they should be criticized for this. They're just reacting to the market in the only way a company of their size can be expected to. Consumers are just stuck with intentionally lower quality software, at the maximum price they'd be willing to pay for it.
With FOSS you get everything plus the kitchen sink, for free, with virtually no limitations. But now the problem's reversed. Instead of there being an incentive to provide a lower quality product as in Microsoft's case, there's a lack of incentive for users to pay the bills, except when they want support or a warm fuzzy feeling that they're making a difference.
Over time, I expect the restricted (thought not necessarily closed source) and free open source software markets to reshape to complement each other, to compensate for each other's inefficiencies. Common software will generally be free (as in freedom) open source. Restricted commercial software will fill in the gaps where free open source has trouble growing, like games and other non-essentials, requiring a relatively competitive price to be paid to cover the development costs. Until then, we're going to see a lot of funny shit like eight desktop editions of Windows Vista, all of them crippled on purpose.
It would be SO much easier for Microsoft to just put Windows Media Player in the Add/Remove section of the regular versions of Windows Vista, and it would make many people happier too. (Programs that need it would then just check if it isn't installed and ask if the user wants to add it). The entire reason they are making entirely separate versions, of course, is just to be difficult.
"do you think that is also unfair that one must pay more for a nicer car over a basic car? They both get you from point A to point B, but one has more amenities that some people want."
Yes, you are right. But what about distros like Mepis? or Lindows (R.I.P)?
Mepis comes with hundreds of apps and games and utilities, ready to run.
The point here is also marketing. Microsoft are good at that. Its imaginable that Apple's OS is heading towards competing with Windows. There are also a few distros of that too.
Historically, Microsoft have been against piracy from the start. They have cleverly engineered old VLMs out of the registration-activation-update processes, they support FULL DRM and will in the future pursue technologies to defeat piracy.
I for one, welcome the 8 versions of Vista!
There are so many 'users' out there that find computers complicated, that a simple operating system is all they want, visually, minimum options, easy to navigate, install and run apps.
The first OS that can do that will be very popular with many people, including Linnux GUI, Apple OS for Intel etc.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
1) I'm going to have to learn a new OS anyway;
2) Maybe I'm getting old, but stealing OS's just doesn't excite me like it used to;
3) Planned obsolence (they're dropping support for XP, right?) and market segmentation speak volumes about the commitment to a low TCO.
4) No matter how much they want me to, I still don't trust them.
Maybe it'll be a good time to switch.
I would suggest you look at z/OS, where I am currently running a module that a predecessor wrote back in 1975 (way before I was born).
Not to mention the iSeries lot, where they have changed the hardware architecture twice (ala the PPC to x86 mac change) without any recompiles, let alone source changes.
And again, OpenVMS where I can run stuff written for VMS 2.0 on VMS 7.3.
The software industry is more than just Microsoft.
No, I don't think it's unfair to pay more for a nicer car. That's because to make a nicer car more effort has to be made, more hours have to be worked, more ideas have to be thought over, than for a cheap car.
But that's not the situation with these Windows versions. Microsoft has a version that does everything. And they have deliberately handicapped the cheaper versions. It wouldn't take any extra manpower, extra parts or extra storage to give everyone the full version. But because it will lead to more money Microsoft is labeling each version with these false values.
Hence there also being 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 different versions as well. However, picking 8 fits the story a little better, don't you think?
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
My father had to pay when he installed a freakin' dvd burner (which pushed him over the edge and now he's using Ubuntu with no plans on getting Vista). Two guys in my comp sci class had to pay (One bought a new motherboard - just the mobo: same processor and everything, one had a fire in his home and had to rebuild from scratch - but he was smart enough to keep weekly backups, so not much of his data was lost). It happens all the time. Of course MS would say it doesn't. They lie all the time. That's business
They had to PAY? Really... So even though Windows will reactivate itself a set number of times before you are forced to do a manual reactivation, they had to pay to reactivate Windows?
Explain this to me further, give us a receipt where they paid, and how they paid. From my understanding the Activation Center at Microsoft is not even setup to bill users, so I find this facinating that they would of had to contact Sales, and reactivate.
I also find it suprising you know so many people that have had to do this, and yet we work have worked with thousands and thousands of users since XP was released and have not seen one instance EVER of MS asking for EVEN AN EXPLAINATION for the reactivation.
Our only known cases of users having to pay, were users using a hacked key and were directed to sales to get a real licensed copy.
I truly don't dismiss your claims, and I would seriously like to see evidence of this. Anything, a receipt, something from Microsoft about the reactivation license and requesting payment, anything that can confirm this has happened.
Something I can take to the people at MS I know and go, what is up with this, and get an answer...
So complaining and comparing the many Linux distros to these 8 Windows versions is fucking retarded. I can choose any of the top 8 Linux distros and be able to do anything in the Linux world easily.
Which are the top 8 at the moment? Ubuntu is big but it's only been around a little while (2 years?). And what about Gnome vs. KDE? I don't know ANY distributions that have fully-fucntional versions of both Gnome and KDE so if you've forced to switch between them you're screwed (except Gentoo, and that doesn't count). Maybe it's just me, but I have a problem with something being broken on just about EVERY distribution out there. I've had major problems with dependencies, for example.
The "limitations" imposed on the versions of Vista mainly are about various bundled applications. XP has CPU limits but I'm not sure how that will work in Vista (licensing is likely to be "per machine"). There is nothing that keeps you from running Apache or even IIS (for example) on Vista, at least that's true of the betas. Certain MS apps might not work on non-server versions, for example I think Exchange only works on servers. Of course, you could use one of the hundreds of other mail servers NOT made by MS to do the same task.
The only realy scam in the double-licensing bullshit in corporate enviroments. Right now, in a corporate environment you have to pay for the server, an access license for each system, AND you have to pay for the more expensice version of the OS (XP Pro). MS seems poised to repeat this lucrative scheme for Vista. Of course, Novell, IBM, Sun, Apple, and other Unix vendors do pretty much the same thing with their software.
And frankly, if Evil Corporation Microsoft wants to cheat other Evil Corporations on volume licensing, I really couldn't give a crap. MS doesn't care about Jonny Snot-nose pirating their software, they care about "small" outfits like General Motors and the entire nation of China pirating their software. Most consumers get their license with their new computer, they couldn't pirate the software even if they wanted to. And these companies can always vote with their dollars, if MS' licensing costs are too egregious they can switch to Linux or MacOS.
Wrong.
I bought my OEM copy of XP Pro along with a hardware upgrade a couple of years ago. Last week, I performed a major system upgrade - processor, motherboard, RAM, hard drives, graphics card, PSU. I had a little trouble with the drivers for my RAID array, which lead to me installing XP a couple of times in a three day period.
I reactivated XP twice in that period, with no problems at all. I've reactivated several times over the past couple of years due to various hardware tinkerings, and I have never had to pay or had any problems - I've never even had to speak to a human about it.
I don't know what your father or your friends are doing, but it's certainly a lot more than just installing a DVD burner (which I did without needing to reactivate, by the way).
It's official. Most of you are morons.
How quickly we forget Xbox 360 basic and premium...
Maybe the old fallacy is in need of modernisation: "They wouldn't leak it if it wasn't true"
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
So *that's* why they're called "micro-soft"
"And what about Gnome vs. KDE? I don't know ANY distributions that have fully-fucntional versions of both Gnome and KDE so if you've forced to switch between them you're screwed (except Gentoo, and that doesn't count). Maybe it's just me, but I have a problem with something being broken on just about EVERY distribution out there. I've had major problems with dependencies, for example." In Ubuntu, KDE is just an "apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" (or install kde) away. Assuming the user had read some of the documentation before installing a new OS, they shouldn't find that too difficult. OpenSuse (or however they're capitalising it this week) give you the option to install gnome, kde or both.
In Ubuntu, KDE is just an "apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" (or install kde) away
I did exactly this in a recent version of Ubuntu (Hedgehog?) and the KDE desktop it created was partially broken and all of the "standard" shortcuts were missing or broken. I installed the Kubuntu version from scratch and it SHIPS with a broken desktop. Ubuntu only works correctly with Gnome, at least in the default configuration. And no, I didn't rewrite all the config files. I shouldn't have to do that. (which would bring up my bitch about Linux installers scattering files everywhere and then having no way to properly organize executables. Maybe I don't WANT everything tossed in my user directory.)
OpenSuse (or however they're capitalising it this week) give you the option to install gnome, kde or both.
Only KDE works right, the Gnome desktop is broken. At least that is the case with SUSE 9. See Ubuntu.
Leopard or Linux?
I guess it comes down to whether you want to switch hardware while you're at it, or get in on the Mac hacking scene!
Microsoft just tries to build-up the buzz-word about windows with this and other recent articles ("10 reasons why to buy Vista" - should be - "10 ways Vista tries catch up to Linux and Mac OSX". No interesting information content here... I bet that accident was intentional.
xp pro 64 bit edition. trust me, it's different.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Oh they joy when vista's next CTP build will be leaked... ... it will include:
*lots of bugs
*lots of security holes
*lots of MS crap
*lots of new, not-so-exiting-features (because you have already seen them on GNU/Linux and OSX)
*a little of effort for taskbar.
I hope that vista will be expensive as possible since everybody knows that only vista people will buy is Ultimate edition and only Vista computer suppliers are going to offer is Vista Home Lite edition...
-Seeing the problem is ½ of solution-
The company is basically or at least, in the past has attempted to be, a giant meritocracy of competing subgroups, ideas and people where the best ideas kind of bubble up. The problem with this is in the UI design area and I didn't think marketing had the same problem.
UI design at MS just kind of gets designed at the beginning of the project by so called Program Managers who are kind of like "technical directors" or technical coordinators, I think its a unique MS function in that they are typically people who can code, but who choose to do management from the start of their careers. They lay out their designs in specification documents and then that gets reviewed by the team, implemented and sent to usability to be iterated on by, again, the managers. The flaw is that instead of PMs primariliy coming up with designs, serious and skilled industrial and graphic designers should be involved from the beginning on ! I don't know how Apple works exactly, but I think they are more akind to that, meaning I would guess that dedicaed industrial and interaction designers probably have power to have input from beginning to end.
Program Managers at MS definitely have their place as leaders, but they need to take a step back to graphic designers and interaction designers when it comes to UI. Right now using PMs as the primary designers, and only letting graphic designers in afterwards to clean up the details, is kind of a "hacker" approach to UI design because PMs usually strutt the line between development, testing, and marketing and aren't really dedicated to design.
Well it seems like the same kind of "hacker", unstructured approach now surfaces in the marketing which is weird because I always thought of MS as very marketing savy... Are they finally losing the plot ? Am I drawing the wrong parallell ?
ian
Now, according to the script this is where the Toyotas and Hondas start kicking them in the balls.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/887212 as someone who has a domain controller at home, I know I cannot have a media center pc
Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 does not support a scenario where you join your computer to a domain. Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is designed as the foundation for a premier home entertainment system. Media Center lets you share Media Center content with other locations in the home by using Media Center Extender devices. Media Center Extender devices require concurrent connections, and these connections are available only through the Fast User Switching component. Therefore, the domain join functionality in Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is disabled.
as the main point of pro over home is in fact, the ability to join a domain- I'd say it's really not the same thing at all...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Vista Bob ;)
I've been asked for an explanation. I was trying to use Ghost to image a bunch of our PC's with our standard software load and then run the mini setup wizard so that I could enter the particular key for the box being installed. The problem is that OEM keys will NEVER activate via either the web or the automated phone system, so I had to talk to a person each time. I ended up having to get in writing from MS that I could use a volume license key to mass reinstall OEM licensed PC's.
I never even implied that it wasn't dumb!
I simply stated there was no need to say "f them" when they are simply trying to make money.
Cheers, Jared
http://phoenix-network.org
Yes, some versions of Linux are intentionally crippled. It's mainly because of software patents rather than business strategy, but nevertheless, it's one of the main obstacles to the widespread adoption of OSS. (The other obstacles being competing sound APIs, all of them shitty, and, relatedly, the non-existence of commercial-quality games.)
No sense of humour.
"How quickly we forget Xbox 360 basic and premium..."
Is this comment in response to the parent (my grandparent)? The thing about the xbox is that alot of players WILL want the premium, since its not just useless little extras. Getting the harddrive and HD cables makes a big difference. Without the HD cables, there's really no reason to even buy a 360 over an old xbox...
Han shot first.
...the ninth choice: Windows 2000 Professional. Still haven't seen a good reason to upgrade my Windows partition to XP, much less Vista. It's not like any software developer other than MS is going to be making critical software that only runs on Vista (they don't do it with XP NOW, Vista isn't going to change anything), so why bother?
I also find it amusing that a number of posters here are claiming that MS is "kind" and "forgiving" for allowing them - just think about that, ALLOWING them - to reactivate their XP license more than three times due to hardware upgrades. Oh yes, Big Brother is so *nice* for granting me the boon of letting me run the software I purchased with my hard-earned money on the machine that I own!
Sheep sucking at the MS tit, and thanking MS for allowing them the privilege of doing so. Good to see that so many so-called geeks - people who pride themselves on their superior intelligence - acting like such brain-dead fanboys...
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
The biggest complaint I've heard as a system builder is that Windows is so freaking expensive. We have 300$ PC's but XP costs another 200$ (canadian dollars). If Microsoft could release Windows Idiot Edition for 50 bucks that just lets them surf/email/WoW, those cheapasses would stop whining.
The best part is when they bring in their PC for service because "Windows Update is broken". Then after 5 minutes of lies they finally admit they used a warezed OS, and so I slap them with 2 hours labour PLUS the cost of Windows. It's my job after all, but it's all Microsoft's fault. How much did Win95 cost back in the day ? 70-80$ maybe.. I can't remember but it was little more than the common game or app. Granted, XP does a lot more stuff than 95, but how many people really care about these features ? XP Pro for power users, that's fine, but there needs to be something "lower" than XP Home for the majority of non-techies.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
that would involve modular programming techniques. MS prefer monolithic programs. So you have to ciompile a different version for certain integrated features.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"Joe User" gets what comes on his PC. He rarley buys an OS from the store.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
its not broken.
it works just fine - I did exactly that and had no trouble at all.
all shortcuts were there and the desktop was fully functional.
so now I chose between gnome and kde and the other 7 or 8 desktops I have installed -
it really isn't that hard
"Yeah, it's not like all major Linux distros use the same kernel source, the same desktop environments, the same web servers, the same command line utilities, ... Linux has a homogenous base just as much as Windows does."
There is enough differences between distros to make them different. Everything from file system layout to init scripting to even the CLI tools are up for modification by those distributors. Anyone trying to migrate between say Mandrake to Debian or Gentoo could tell you the difference is real.
B.
This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.