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Lone Programmer Writes 352 Webcam Drivers For Linux

mrneutron2004 writes "A French physician and ardent Linux supporter is the one man you can all thank for adding support for 352 webcams in Linux. The Open Source OS world may still be a bit of a mess when competing with the ease of Windows, but efforts like this make you wonder. One man with drive, tenacity, and no funding does what no one else can do. And none of the major Linux distributions back this guy's efforts, even the big players dipping into the corporate world's coffers."

450 comments

  1. Hey Scuttlemonkey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What kind of a geek misspells Bawls? And an editor at Slashdot no less. For SHAME!

    1. Re:Hey Scuttlemonkey by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe he wasn't referring to the tasty energy drink... /. editors are pretty weird.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    2. Re:Hey Scuttlemonkey by HermMunster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He did a great job. The only problem is that he doesn't tell you where to install the compiled files. There's no readme file and most every reference is in french. Not his fault for the french but he could have put an installer in there or a readme telling you where to place the newly compiled files.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    3. Re:Hey Scuttlemonkey by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well... ./configure
      make
      sudo make install

      Do you really need anything more?

      --
      Your ad could be here!
    4. Re:Hey Scuttlemonkey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      He didn't even make deb pkgs files ....for shame but then again someone will screw with the config for sure. Of course there will be an endless debate first over where the files should go..then there will be rpms that don't work for anyone except the guy who compiled it. Then there will be a scons version and on and on and on...finally no one will be able to use his drivers except geeks. I am with you... I just wish the redhat, gentoo and debian/ubuntu crowd could get a grip and quit gripping, if he lets out the source that is good enough! No wonder developers are getting pissed.

      You can bet that his code will be ported to bsd before half of the linux community agrees on how to package it. Good old make should be enough if the major distros could just get there act together and quit screwing with the directory tree. Seems like the LSB initiative has gone down the tubes and we have no one to thank but ourselves, because of linux in fighting a shitass company like microsoft will continue to dominate the world of software.

    5. Re:Hey Scuttlemonkey by moranar · · Score: 4, Informative

      You just lost an excellent opportunity to keep your mouth shut. "He didn't even make the deb pkg files"... What else, do you want mr. Xhaard a hot cup of latte in bed with those? Most distros I've used, including Mandriva and Ubuntu, already package his drivers. I know it because I've used them for months now: If you've ever used an spcaxxx-based webcam, the driver was written by him.

      God, I shouldn't need to write this.

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea!"
      Gandhi, about Internet Security
    6. Re:Hey Scuttlemonkey by moranar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You shouldn't be using his drivers directly, if possible. Most major distros already package them (at the very least, Mandriva and Ubuntu do, with the dkms-spca5xx and spca5xx packages, respectively). He has done an outstanding job already.

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea!"
      Gandhi, about Internet Security
  2. WOW!!!! by axia777 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am stunned. That is a lot of code to write. That guy is a machine. Props to him 100%.

    1. Re:WOW!!!! by errxn · · Score: 5, Funny

      Anybody else glad that they are not one of this guy's patients?

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
    2. Re:WOW!!!! by doti · · Score: 5, Informative
      While I still value his work, it's worth noticing that the /. title is a lot misleading. He didn't made 253 different drivers, but one driver that works on 253 different webcams that have a lot in common.
      From TFA:

      FC: So how did the ice ball grow to reach today's 253+ webcams supported with several different chipsets?
      MX: Starting with the Sunplus chipset support, I realised that most code in the core driver could be "shareable" to support several webcam chipset(s). That is why the "GSPCA" drivers now support over 250 webcams from different chipset vendors.
      --
      factor 966971: 966971
    3. Re:WOW!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd like to be his patient, someone who can spend this much effort in fixing something not working as it should is a lot better than the '1 minute per person' doctors found elsewhere

    4. Re:WOW!!!! by monsterlemon · · Score: 1

      You make it sound like sharing code is bad these days... I'm sure he could quite easily split out the code into completely separate drivers if bloating things that way would make you happy.

      Oh, hang on. It doesn't make any difference, does it? Because this is open source, and all we care about is making things work in the best way possible, rather than marketing and spin and boasting about how many new drivers we've added (or how many new features we've copied from the competition ;-) )...

    5. Re:WOW!!!! by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, the title and summary of this story disagrees with you almost entirely.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    6. Re:WOW!!!! by pclminion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He didn't made 253 different drivers, but one driver that works on 253 different webcams that have a lot in common.

      Writing a solid core that easily integrates with over 253 device-specific modules is something to be DAMNED impressed by. I always love it when I'm given some new requirement at work, and it just fits right in to my existing infrastructure almost effortlessly. It means I designed the thing properly in the first place. This guy has done that, 253 times.
    7. Re:WOW!!!! by jddj · · Score: 1

      What's more, since the camera adds 20 lbs., the guy now weighs about 3.6 tons!!!!

    8. Re:WOW!!!! by rm69990 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, he didn't make it sound like sharing code is bad. He simply pointed out a misleading headline, which it is (not that you can expect otherwise from Slashdot....I wish the editors would RTFAs).

    9. Re:WOW!!!! by TheLink · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well maybe that's how the 1 minute per person doctors have more time to spend on golf, writing webcam drivers, kernel hacking etc ;).

      --
    10. Re:WOW!!!! by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Chances are, this physician gets paid 20 Euros an hour, and he is not allowed to work over time -- or else he's forced to take additional vacation. But this is probably an even trade for him in the end, since his education was most likely fully paid by the French government, he has access to top quality high tech medical equipment, and just like the rest of the French doctors in France -- he will never get sued for malpractice.

    11. Re:WOW!!!! by FrozenFOXX · · Score: 3

      In full agreement, a big serious thank-you from my household, he's awesome.

      --
      "Just a fox, a whisper."
    12. Re:WOW!!!! by El+Cabri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not very clear to me whether he's a physician or a physicist. It is a common mistake from French speakers to call a physicist, a "physician" since physicist translates as "physicien" in French. And the guy says he was working with doppler and ultrasound systems, which could be the case of either.

    13. Re:WOW!!!! by errxn · · Score: 1

      Thanks for bringing that to light. Regardless, I'm still glad that I'm not one of his patients.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
    14. Re:WOW!!!! by StikyPad · · Score: 4, Funny

      Lonely Programmer Writes 352 Webcam Drivers For Linux

      There. Fixed that.

    15. Re:WOW!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, he didn't write the original SPCA50x driver at all. I did, and I'm not very happy that I've been given no credit in this article. It took a long time to reverse engineer the SPCA50x USB protocol.

      Go read the README file in the distro or view the version history on spca50x.sourceforge.net

      Cydergoth

    16. Re:WOW!!!! by iwein · · Score: 1

      I don't think Doppler and Ultrasound imaging is a field that requires one to have patients... anyway, moving along.

      --
      Show a man some news, distract him for an hour. Show a man some mod points, distract him for the rest of his life.
    17. Re:WOW!!!! by LizardKing · · Score: 1

      If webcams are anything like other classes of device that come from multiple manufacturers, then there are probably lots of quirks in the different devices. This is why USB devices (MIDI interfaces for instance), don't always work with the existing drivers despite the device claiming to use the standard protocol. Perhaps webcams are better than some other devices in this respect, but whichever way you look at it, this guy's driver suppiorting so many different models is damn impressive.

  3. Amazing by SirJorgelOfBorgel · · Score: 5, Funny

    An amazing feat, this man should be recognized. Linux will never be on the desktop if your teenage daughter cant videochat with predators 2000 miles away! I for one welcome this new voyeur overlord.

    1. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      > "One man with drive, tenacity, and no funding does what no one else can do."

      s/can/wants to/g

      There. Fixed that for you. :)

    2. Re:Amazing by Forge · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hello. Excuse me,

      SlashDot mods. Pleas mod this "plus 3, disturbing"

      --
      --= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
    3. Re:Amazing by harrkev · · Score: 1

      Did anyone notice the picture in the article? I did not know that Saddam Hussein write drivers!

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    4. Re:Amazing by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Those uses aside, I look forward to the day webcams look like a DV camera hooked up to a computer and fed through a real-time MPEG4 encoder. While they have gotten a lot better, I still find many webcams frankly painful to watch. Looking at that jerky motion as if you were at the disco with a strobe light, I find it very annoying. It's just not natural motion, it's like watching a CG character that's almost, but still clearly not human.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Amazing by kobaz · · Score: 1

      Those uses aside, I look forward to the day webcams look like a DV camera hooked up to a computer and fed through a real-time MPEG4 encoder. While they have gotten a lot better, I still find many webcams frankly painful to watch. Looking at that jerky motion as if you were at the disco with a strobe light, I find it very annoying. It's just not natural motion, it's like watching a CG character that's almost, but still clearly not human.

      That's pretty funny, but there are webcams that already do this. The problem is if you want to take advantage of the web part of webcam you need some fat pipes on both ends to have real time high quality video. Cablemodems and etc where you get something like 30k/sec upstream just isn't going to cut it.

      --

      The goal of computer science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.
    6. Re:Amazing by houghi · · Score: 1

      Funny> Darn insightfull if you ask me.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    7. Re:Amazing by Terminus32 · · Score: 0

      Well done to the guy, much respect & props!

      --
      http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
  4. Summary Title by jeffy210 · · Score: 5, Funny

    And even the summary title wants to short him for 99 cameras to his credit!

    --
    ------
    "And may your days be long upon the earth."
    1. Re:Summary Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      It gets worse...

      Slashdot Title? 253
      Article text/Slashdot summary? 352
      Article photo caption? 235

    2. Re:Summary Title by master0ne · · Score: 1

      there is some confussion in the article, as both the slashdot story and actual artical title state 352, however in the actual artical and the slashdot title it states 253, it would seem 253 is the correct number, and someone cought a touch of dyslexia and the /. editors didnt catch it....

      --
      Noone writes jokes in base 13!
    3. Re:Summary Title by Meadowhog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Slashdot uncertainty principle: If you know the speed with which he programmed the drivers, it's impossible to know just how many he wrote. Or something like that.. I'm sure I learned this in physics.
      --
      CashCrate: Earn money for filling out surveys/forms, real info not required

    4. Re:Summary Title by sarahbau · · Score: 1

      Looks like someone just knew the numbers, and not the order. He also wrote 325, 523, and 532 USB WebCam drivers for Linux.

    5. Re:Summary Title by Reverend528 · · Score: 5, Funny

      He wrote those 99 drivers in the time it took for the article to be posted.

    6. Re:Summary Title by Forge · · Score: 1

      They know the digits. It's just a little tough to figure out where they fit.

      --
      --= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
    7. Re:Summary Title by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Obviously those are webcam model numbers. He only actually wrote three sets of drivers.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    8. Re:Summary Title by Penguinshit · · Score: 2, Funny

      A classic example of Lysdexia...

    9. Re:Summary Title by Reziac · · Score: 1

      99 drivers there on the wall...
      Take one down, pass it around!!

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    10. Re:Summary Title by starkravingmad · · Score: 1

      That's what happens when you don't use optimistic transactions. The article shouldn't have committed because the underlying data had changed.

    11. Re:Summary Title by eonlabs · · Score: 1

      Also, From the interview: 253+

      --
      I wouldn't consider the mad hatter mad. Just reality impaired. He sure can make a mean cup of tea.
    12. Re:Summary Title by Drgnkght · · Score: 1

      and the /. editors didnt catch it.... You're new here aren't you?
    13. Re:Summary Title by GarrettZilla · · Score: 1

      I did a little RTFA. The original article, in different places, says 352, 253, and 235. I can't really fault /. for this; the original article is fairly replete with suckitude.

      --
      Ecce potestas casei!
    14. Re:Summary Title by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Just as writing a whole game engine from scratch? Then go tell that to both guys I know who just did it.

      From SCRATCH? Which video card does said game engine interface to? Or did they write said game engine on top of an OS with support for multiple graphics cards?

    15. Re:Summary Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of those values are given in metric and the others in Octal. A real programmer would have realized this right away. Don't blame the editors for making errors when they quickly and easily saw through what was really going on with such apparent ease.

      Need a "Chuck Norris" reference here for further clarity.

    16. Re:Summary Title by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1
      Yes. And about this.
      Can anyone here on the major "News For Nerds" site actually write code? Because, all I've ever seen here about great one-man projects is "humans can't do that, it's not possible". (Yeah Right. Just as writing a whole game engine from scratch? Then go tell that to both guys I know who just did it.)


      I think most slashdotters are in tech support, with maybe some Perl or PHP knowledge. So they probably can't write device drivers.

      I'm not very impressed by the technical skill : it is rather easy to do. I figure all a webcam driver has to do is "open v4L from device mmaped at [address] and pass video data to application" ... not much more. I read the code to tm395c (scsi card) once and even I could figure it out : all it does is initialize some magic numbers and then translate I/O to requests and back. And don't you dare tell me that all webcams encode their 640x480x2.5bit-color in a different way.

      This is a USB webcam, so I guess you need to send some bytes to the control endpoint, and then stream from an ISO one. And yes, different cameras do stream in different formats

      From
      http://mxhaard.free.fr/sview.html#SECTION000600000 00000000000

      -f yuyv
      -f yyuv
      -f yuvy
      -f gbrg
      -f jpeg

      RGB and JPEG are obvious YUV maybe less so. I worked on a embedded system that supported a bunch of (maybe all) I2C controlled cameras with a text 'driver' file which told it what resolution, format and init string the cameras needed. As far as I know, most current webcams are proprietary - they have a bridge from USB to I2C but a custom driver on the PC needs to know what commands to issue to initialise the device. Mind you there's a new USB video device class which will allow one standard driver to use most new devices.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    17. Re:Summary Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> I did a little RTFA. The original article, in different places, says 352, 253, and 235....

      Do I hear 325?

      Not enough?

      How about 523?

      OK, Let's compromise and just call it 532.

    18. Re:Summary Title by noidentity · · Score: 1

      "Slashdot Title? 253
      Article text/Slashdot summary? 352
      Article photo caption? 235"


      Actual count: priceless

    19. Re:Summary Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, I would have expected most cheap webcams to stream some form of packed RGB data. Converting the CCD data to YUV or even JPEG (!) just seems like a lot of unnecessary overhead to me. Maybe that's why I don't design hardware, though...

    20. Re:Summary Title by c-reus · · Score: 2, Informative

      You mean if he knows how fast he wrote the drivers, he has no idea where the drivers are?

    21. Re:Summary Title by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Most digital cameras use a Bayer filter, (-f gbrg in the list). The idea behind YUV (most of the others) is so you can do chroma subsampling, which is a simple way to reduce the amount of data transmitted. JPEG is not so simple, but much more effective at reducing the amount of data. But DSP power is cheap these days, and so a hardware JPEG encoder block can fit in the corner of a CMOS image sensor.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    22. Re:Summary Title by Phisbut · · Score: 1

      From SCRATCH? Which video card does said game engine interface to? Or did they write said game engine on top of an OS with support for multiple graphics cards?

      Right... cause nothing can be built from scratch now since everything depends on something? If I want to make a Hello World application from scratch, should I build a whole operating system too? And then, that still wouldn't be from scratch right? I need to design and build the CPU first. Oh, and I guess I have to mine the raw material too? Oh, and that's still cheating, cause the material was already there, so I guess I need to cram up a whole lotta energy into a singularity and create a big bang first, right? All that for Hello World.

      Building on top of an operating system can still be considered building from scratch.

      --
      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
    23. Re:Summary Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chuck Norris justs looks at the device, and the drivers write themselves!

  5. Dear Michel Xhaard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thank you

    1. Re:Dear Michel Xhaard by Short+Circuit · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Seconded. (And, someone, mod parent up.)

    2. Re:Dear Michel Xhaard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I owe you a beer

    3. Re:Dear Michel Xhaard by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      Merci beaucoup.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    4. Re:Dear Michel Xhaard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, thank you Michel. You pull many uncredible people along with us into the hopefully credible future.

  6. Let the market speaks by biocute · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Seriously, I'm more interested in the following incident:

    The Win2K drivers for the "DigiGR8" 301P had apparently a memory leak under Win2k, forcing me to reboot the win2k box on a daily basis. Basically it just stopped working after a dozen hours of continuous use, and rebooting was the only solution.

    I then concluded I had enough with Win2K and decided to install my Linux...


    So a bad driver caused him to give up on W2K, then he proceeds to spend endless hours of creating drivers for those crappy webcams?

    Wouldn't it be better that an ill-supported webcam gets abandoned by the consumers, thus giving the market better-supported webcams as manufacturers are forced to lift up their games?

    Would you buy a (oh no not again) cheap car with an oil leak, knowing that there's a free and simple way of fixing it? Or would you demand the car manufacturer to get its act together and fix the leak before its cars get out of the factory?
    1. Re:Let the market speaks by k1e0x · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Would you buy a (oh no not again) cheap car with an oil leak, knowing that there's a free and simple way of fixing it? Or would you demand the car manufacturer to get its act together and fix the leak before its cars get out of the factory? Heh.. Depends on the price. ;-) is the car free?
      --
      Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
    2. Re:Let the market speaks by cowscows · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some people enjoy the challenge and the work involved in maintaining and/or improving things that they own, whether that's a car or a computer. This guy could've thrown his webcam away and then gotten another, but instead he installed an OS where he could freely see and tinker with all the guts, and make the hardware he had already spent money on work.

      Apparently he really enjoyed the project, because he went and did basically the same thing a few hundred times more. Good for him.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    3. Re:Let the market speaks by ncohafmuta · · Score: 0


      Your analogy is a tiny little bit flawed, based on my perspective. I think the purpose of the drivers is more for people that already bought the webcam, not for future people that are going to buy a webcam. And unless you do your research, a consumer wouldn't know that the win2k driver was buggy until they bought it.
      He's not advocating the purchase of said cheap webcams (with buggy drivers) by developing these drivers.

      -Tony

    4. Re:Let the market speaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      > So a bad driver caused him to give up on W2K, then he proceeds to
      > spend endless hours of creating drivers for those crappy webcams?

      No, that guy you quoted is the article writer not the driver writer.

    5. Re:Let the market speaks by bert.cl · · Score: 1, Informative
      Actually,

      If I've read this correctly, it's the author of the article that bought the webcam to use it on W2K. The coder bought the cams for his daughters and noticed there wasn't any linux support, so he took the matter in his own hands.

    6. Re:Let the market speaks by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What if you got the camera without realising it?
      What if its been sat in a drawer for years 'cos it worked "sometimes" and you didn't find a real use because of the stability?
      What if it was second hand?
      Some people cannot afford to waste money buying extra kit and won't look the gift horse in the mouth.

      We have become such a wasteful generation.
      If something doesn't quite work right, we throw it away.

      Cameras are technically simple and most will work in a similar manner (theres only so many ways you can send the same data across a wire). My bet is this guy has created a core driver and is using variants on the devices, this allows all those useless cameras before to now be usable. There must be millions of similar working devices around the world.

      Why bitch at him for helping?

      People now won't have to suffer with crap 'cos they can be made to work well (apparently).
      props to him.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    7. Re:Let the market speaks by KingSkippus · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, you misunderstand. The person who gave up on W2K is the reporter, not the guy who created the drivers. The guy who wrote the drivers did it because he bought webcams for his daughters and they didn't have drivers.

      As for you comment, it's not the camera that has the problem; it's the drivers, and that's what he fixed for Linux. In your analogy, it's more like buying a used car with a heavy discount because it has a dirty air filter. If you know that the car is perfectly fine with a new air filter, why not buy it? A famous man once said, "A dirty air filter does not a bad car make." (Okay, I admit it, it was me, just then, and I guess I'm not that famous.)

    8. Re:Let the market speaks by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 1

      Sparks just flew out of my badanalogometer. I'll get back to you when I've fixed it.

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    9. Re:Let the market speaks by rubycodez · · Score: 2, Funny

      sorry your bad anal ogometer went off, try some lube next time

    10. Re:Let the market speaks by solafide · · Score: 4, Funny

      He has 352 daughters?

    11. Re:Let the market speaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't like your car oil leak analogy because oil is too important for proper functioning of the car.

      In this case the webcam was fine and just had crappy drivers. If you must use a car, maybe say the clock in the car only told GMT and you lived on the east coast of the USA. The clock being wrong doesn't affect the fuel efficiency, top speed, braking, etc. The car will mechanically run fine, you just have to subract 4 hours everytime you look at the clock (unless its day light saving time which just complicates the issue and increases demand for a fix even more).

      So yes, If I was in the market for a car, and I found one that suited all my needs except the clock only told time in GMT, but there was a free (freedom and beer) fix, than YES, I would buy the car and apply the fix and live happilly ever after

    12. Re:Let the market speaks by DaleGlass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So how does the market know?

      In Linux, this is possible. You actually have chances of getting somebody knowledgeable to tell you that the hardware itself sucks (there used to be comments about how much realtek hardware sucks somewhere in the kernel source), or that the driver isn't properly written. Linux also makes it easy to make it possible for people to tell you so: somebody can tell you to run "lspci -v" and "dmesg" and paste it into your mail, which is easy even if you have no clue what all that stuff is.

      Windows on the other hand, gets more and more obscure with each passing day. Starting from XP it reboots instead of letting you see the BSOD, so without considerable effort you can't even find what went wrong. You go to make tea, come back, and the box mysteriosly rebooted meanwhile. Windows installations are also often infested with spyware, which makes it a lot harder to figure out what exactly is going wrong, as something going wrong in bizarre ways is depressingly common.

      There's also that consumers are simply not informed. Most people don't spend time googling around to try to find out whether the webcam they're about to buy is any good. If they find reviews, often they will be by somebody who tried it for 15 minutes, which will miss any longer term issues. About the only way of a bad one getting abandoned by consumers is that it's such incredible crap that even people with no experience at all see it's horrible and return it.

    13. Re:Let the market speaks by master0ne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      yes, but the core market thats gonna make the difference to the webcam developers is the windows market, by developing linux drivers (and not fixing the windows ones) he hasnt really provided much value add to the companys, and at the same time done a huge service to linux, because now linux works "better" than windows does with the same hardware! this is a huge plus and shouldnt be seen as a bad thing. Also asto the analogy of the car, if i were looking at a $50,000 car that just had a leaking oil pan i knew i could fix for free or cheep, and they were willing to drop the price to say $15,000 for the vehicle, you bet your ass id buy it if i could..... (a good webcam costs around $50, these generic ones im gussing cost between $10-$20...) so yeah... dont complain, he enjoyed the work, released it to the world, did linux a huge favor, and didnt hurt anyone doing it... i see no problem with that...

      --
      Noone writes jokes in base 13!
    14. Re:Let the market speaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He could have run out and bought a new cam for $20, yea, but he decided to take the long route. His curiosity was peaked and it gave him an idea for a project. Some people like doing projects, and some people have hobbies. That's all.

      Btw, I don't think your post is flamebait. Just more slashdot morons at work.

    15. Re:Let the market speaks by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "So a bad driver caused him to give up on W2K, then he proceeds to spend endless hours of creating drivers for those crappy webcams?

      Wouldn't it be better that an ill-supported webcam gets abandoned by the consumers, thus giving the market better-supported webcams as manufacturers are forced to lift up their games?"

      The person that wrote the drivers isn't the one that dropped W2K. BTW I think W2K was the best version of Windows. W2K is as stable and secure as XP and uses fewer resources.

      Some people like fixing things. More power too them. If he was on W2K he could have written a few Windows driver for the webcam but writing a Windows driver is a lot bigger pain the writing a Linux driver.

      It would be best if people bought devices from companies that support Linux but how someone wants to spend their free time is their business. If they want to write free drivers for cheap webcams then all that anyone should say is "thank you".

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    16. Re:Let the market speaks by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 1

      Hey, when this guy sets out to do something, be it write web cam drivers or start a family, he doesn't do it half-assed! We could all take a lesson from his dedication and, uh, perspiration.

    17. Re:Let the market speaks by normuser · · Score: 0

      Would you buy a (oh no not again) cheap car with an oil leak, knowing that there's a free and simple way of fixing it?


      Well, it depends on where the oil is cumming from and how much they want for the car.
      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
      XXX#######
    18. Re:Let the market speaks by xtracto · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, 253...

      well, that was before after editors wrote the title and before their wrote the summary.
      He might not have a TV

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    19. Re:Let the market speaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guy who wrote the drivers did it because he bought webcams for his daughters and they didn't have drivers.

      Here he is, living proof of immaculate conception! A driver-writing geek with daughters!

    20. Re:Let the market speaks by youthoftoday · · Score: 1

      Forget free. You see these things for about £5 (http://xe.com) these days. I'd pay up to that for a car if I knew there was a hotfix.

      --
      -1 not first post
    21. Re:Let the market speaks by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, he's French. See, in other countries, being intelligent isn't a big turn-off to women, in fact, they're actually are attracted to intelligent men because they want to be with someone who can provide for them with a good career.

      American women, OTOH, are turned on by tattooed, motorcycle-riding men with shaved heads who don't work and physically abuse them. America in general is extremely anti-intellectual. Notice our preoccupation with "sports" like professional wrestling, and with Creationism.

      So it makes perfect sense that a computer geek in Europe would be married with kids.

    22. Re:Let the market speaks by nihilonian · · Score: 0

      Read the article!! What you just stated is the incident that happened with the author of the article, not the guy who wrote the drivers!!!!

    23. Re:Let the market speaks by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "So a bad driver caused him to give up on W2K, then he proceeds to spend endless hours of creating drivers for those crappy webcams?"

      It would appear that he enjoys the challenge muchly. If scratching one itch feels good, why not scratch a few hundred more?

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    24. Re:Let the market speaks by k1e0x · · Score: 1

      patch /car -p0 --dryrun oilpan-update

      (gotta use dry run I hate oil leaks.)

      --
      Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
    25. Re:Let the market speaks by Malc · · Score: 1

      "Windows on the other hand, gets more and more obscure with each passing day. Starting from XP it reboots instead of letting you see the BSOD, so without considerable effort you can't even find what went wrong."


      That's not true. Windbg + minidump file (and maybe the NT event log) have a lot of information that can help here. It's not a considerable effort either. It's a much much better solution than what you're probably referring too: looking at the minimal amount of information that NT4 used to put on the BSOD screen.
    26. Re:Let the market speaks by VinB · · Score: 0

      I have to admit, I'd probably go with the cheaper car with the leak. And while I won't assume to speak for anyone but myself, my hunch is that there's a sizeable population that would do the same.

    27. Re:Let the market speaks by Magic+Fingers · · Score: 0

      Family planning, Please.

    28. Re:Let the market speaks by DaleGlass · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about tools available to a programmer, I'm talking about tools available to a normal user. Besides, how does that data help you in Windows when it's of no use to anybody but MS or the hardware manufacturer?

      I've actually reported bugs in a few drivers in the kernel, and got mail from the author asking to provide the required details, then a patch with a fix. In less than a week everything was working the way it should.

      In Windows though? Good luck getting that sort of service. It's very common for a manufacturer to make hardware, release a buggy driver, then forget about it and go work on something newer. Even if you can get the info that would be needed to diagnose the problem, there's really not much point in it, as MS doesn't care unless it's in their code, and if the manufacturer doesn't care, you're screwed. If you do manage to report a bug and get it fixed, you might finally get it when they release the service pack 4 months later.

    29. Re:Let the market speaks by Mr+44 · · Score: 2, Informative


      Windows on the other hand, gets more and more obscure with each passing day. Starting from XP it reboots instead of letting you see the BSOD, so without considerable effort you can't even find what went wrong. You go to make tea, come back, and the box mysteriosly rebooted meanwhile.


      Sorry, thats just because you're an idiot. Or at least, not on the same level as someone capable of writing drivers.

      On win2k, XP or Vista now, you can decide what the system does with a "bluescreen" (under My Computer->Properties). Rebooting immediately is the default since thats preferable for 99% of users, but there's a checkbox to display the bluescreen anyways, and write out a full or partial memory dump. Using microsoft's free kernel debugger, you can then analyze that crashdump. It's relatively easy to pin down which module caused the crash...

      Oh, and I love "gets more and more obscure with each passing day" - starting two years ago or so, microsoft set up a symbol server so you can automatically load operating system debugging symbols for the exact binaries you are running with. Makes the above debugging process a lot easier....

    30. Re:Let the market speaks by DaleGlass · · Score: 1

      Who said anything about writing drivers?

      I was talking how on Linux it's quite easy for an end user to gather some information for a developer, and determine where the problem is. Chances are they'll get a fix too. Windows specifically makes this difficult because due to the "behavior preferrable for 99% of the users" you mention, guess what? The user never sees anything to report in the first place!

      Grandparent said: "Wouldn't it be better that an ill-supported webcam gets abandoned by the consumers, thus giving the market better-supported webcams as manufacturers are forced to lift up their games?".

      My argument here is that the way Windows works is utterly unhelpful for the consumer to find out where the problem is. If a driver makes the system crash, they will never see that in the first place. All they see is their computer reboot. Hence they won't have a clue as to what happened, won't even try to ask anybody knowledgeable, and will never find the driver their hardware came with was crap.

    31. Re:Let the market speaks by basic0 · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that the same consumers who know the ill effects of fast food, yet eat it regularly, or know about the sweatshop labour and worker exploitation, but still shop at Wal-Mart, would make rational decisions about complex electronics equipment.

      Remember, you're a relatively intellectual person who apparently reads about Linux and posts on Slashdot. There are a LOT of people out there who are more primal and would buy that cheap, leaky car because "it's red" and that makes them feel good. And that's to say nothing of the "I don't want to spend a lot of money, I just want it to work" factor that creates a market for $400 PCs at Best Buy. You and I might know they're crap, but to most people, they're a computer that will do "E-Mail" and "Word" for $400.

      "Why on earth would anyone spend $1000+ on a computer when you can get one for $400? Hey, it even includes a FREE PRINTER! That way I can keep a PERMANENT record of all those E-Mails I get!"

    32. Re:Let the market speaks by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      If Windows reboots like that, you see a message at next boot stating "The system has recovered from a serious error" which allows you to report the issue to Microsoft, as well as giving you a pointer to where some debugging files are found.

      On Windows it's quite easy for an end user to gather information for a developer, who can determine where the problem is (or for OS faults, just send it to Microsoft who'll forward it to the relevant people).

      Linux IMO is much worse for that with the arcane "Kernel Panic" screen (though arguably one could say that the need to have a friendly system for reporting fatal kernel faults underlines an underlying issue that really should be looked at).

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    33. Re:Let the market speaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >"His curiosity was peaked"

      s/peaked/piqued/g

      There. Fixed that for you. :)

    34. Re:Let the market speaks by DaleGlass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a nice theory, but I've never seen it in practice.

      I've seen it in practice on Linux -- my bug report resulted in an email from the developer the next day, and a fix for the bug I found in the next few hours.

      Sure you can send reports to MS, but I've never ever seen anything come out of it. If the device manufacturer ever gets around fixing it I won't hear about it, and if MS does fix it I won't notice either -- it'll be quietly rolled into the next service pack that might come out 4 months later, if it gets there at all.

      And that still doesn't address what I was talking about, anyway. Yeah, great, the user can click "ok" and get a dump sent to MS. Wonderful. And meanwhile what? An user still can't find out what failed without a developer's asistance, and on Linux those are a whole lot easier to get a hold of, and a lot more responsive. Patches for kernel exploits come out in *hours*.

    35. Re:Let the market speaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows would set up an actual server process just for kernel debugging, wouldn't they?

      If memory serves correctly, all of those symbols are in a simple file in Linux, which doesn't require any additional programs (or RAM) to be used up.

    36. Re:Let the market speaks by dbIII · · Score: 1
      Webcams with bad drivers - it's not just a problem with nameless brands.

      A bad driver and a poorly set up install CD with an incomplete direct-x install for a new Microsoft branded webcam on Windows XP had me very annoyed a few months ago. There was an updated driver available but the person using it was on dialup (yes I know - a webcam on dialup) so it took me ages to set up due to the size of the two downloads. A little annoyed that Microsoft software wasn't working with Microsoft software but I'm experienced enough to be nothing more than a bit more disappointed and embarressed that I recommended the thing in the first place.

    37. Re:Let the market speaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once wrote an XP/2k/Win9x/Dos driver for a PCI parallel port card I bought which came with a driver that couldn't work on my motherboard. Took about a week and it taught me a lot actually.

      http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/ITEdriverTech.htm

    38. Re:Let the market speaks by Malc · · Score: 1

      "I'm not talking about tools available to a programmer, I'm talking about tools available to a normal user. Besides, how does that data help you in Windows when it's of no use to anybody but MS or the hardware manufacturer?

      I've actually reported bugs in a few drivers in the kernel, and got mail from the author asking to provide the required details, then a patch with a fix. In less than a week everything was working the way it should."


      What do you mean: tools available to a programmer? It's a free download, and there is a KB article with instructions. Clearly from your comment there is an expectation that a normal user under Linux is different to a normal user under Windows. If Linux were more popular and more of these normal Windows users were Linux users instead, can honestly image they'd be reporting bugs in drivers in the kernel. Sounds a little like you're a programmer.

      "In Windows though? Good luck getting that sort of service. It's very common for a manufacturer to make hardware, release a buggy driver, then forget about it and go work on something newer. Even if you can get the info that would be needed to diagnose the problem, there's really not much point in it, as MS doesn't care unless it's in their code, and if the manufacturer doesn't care, you're screwed. If you do manage to report a bug and get it fixed, you might finally get it when they release the service pack 4 months later."


      As a matter of fact I reported a bug to Microsoft that was breaking our apps a couple of weeks ago. They were very responsive. They have a KB article and will be fixing it in IE8 (doesn't need to be sooner as they gave me a perfectly reasonable work around). Your point? It's not Microsoft's fault that third parties are releasing their drivers closed source - they could just as easily do the same thing under Linux (and in fact that happens sometimes). No difference between Windows and Linux then.
    39. Re:Let the market speaks by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Ok, so this isn't the fault of Windows at all. It's the fault of its developer community. Yeah, this I can definitely understand. It is important to distinguish however when you are talking about the developers as opposed to the OS.

      Keeping in mind that a user can still easily find out what failed without a developer's assistance by clicking the "More Information" (or is it "See what data this error report contains") link on the error box. "Faulting Module" is one of the first details there.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    40. Re:Let the market speaks by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      "On win2k, XP or Vista now, you can decide what the system does with a "bluescreen" (under My Computer->Properties). Rebooting immediately is the default since thats preferable for 99% of users, but there's a checkbox to display the bluescreen anyways, and write out a full or partial memory dump. Using microsoft's free kernel debugger, you can then analyze that crashdump. It's relatively easy to pin down which module caused the crash..."

      Yeah, you can thank people like Mark Russinovich for that. It's ironic that the very people you've learned crash dump analysis from were the very same people that were once pursued as hackers and labeled as dangerous criminals by Microsoft.

      "Oh, and I love "gets more and more obscure with each passing day" - starting two years ago or so, microsoft set up a symbol server so you can automatically load operating system debugging symbols for the exact binaries you are running with. Makes the above debugging process a lot easier...."

      Yes, Microsoft is getting better at exposing system level information, but it didn't have a choice in the matter -- it had to -- in order to stay competitive with its open source counterparts. Note that it only started this effort after having already lost considerable marketshare to Linux and Apache.

    41. Re:Let the market speaks by Richard+W.M.+Jones · · Score: 1

      Ok, so this isn't the fault of Windows at all. It's the fault of its developer community. Yeah, this I can definitely understand. It is important to distinguish however when you are talking about the developers as opposed to the OS.

      No it's not, it's the fault of closed source. How can you argue that closed source (Windows) is better than open source? On what possible planet can not being able to see the source code be better than being able to see it?

      Rich.

    42. Re:Let the market speaks by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Hey, as a tattooed, motorcycle-riding geek, I resent that!

    43. Re:Let the market speaks by The+Warlock · · Score: 1

      I think the frequency of a Windows BSOD vs. the frequency of a Linux kernel panic is kind of telling, here.

      --
      I've upped my standards, so up yours.
    44. Re:Let the market speaks by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I can't find any evidence of the realtek comment in the linux tree and since the driver its from is has a four clause BSD it seems unlikely it was ever in linux. It does seem to be in all 3 of the major BSD variants though.

      http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/dev/ic /rtl81x9.c?rev=1.68&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-mar kup
      http://crypto.riken.go.jp/pub/OpenBSD/src/sys/dev/ ic/rtl81x9.c
      http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/pci/if_rl.c

      In realteks defense mind you i think the worst PCI ethernet controller comment is a bit unfair, sure its a bit heavy on the CPU and annoying to drive but it seems to be a pretty stable chip and its damn cheap.

      TBH i suspect you will find lots of comments about hardware issues in any driver source unless its been through a comment stripper. Hardware has bugs and design flaws that can't really be fixed in the hardware either due to the cost of a respin or due to the fact that units are already in the wild. Some of those bugs will be in the IC makers errata but getting them to add newly found issues to the errata can be very hard. I strongly suspect the only difference is that linux/freebsd make those comments fully public whereas with propietry operating systems you'd probablly need a source license to see them.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    45. Re:Let the market speaks by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Ah, the "open source is inherently better than closed source" hippies! In the majority of circumstances, closed source and open source are equally useless. Your average computer user can't read C++, so your argument that being able to see the source is better than not being able to see it is a fallacy - seeing and understanding are two different animals, and the average computer user finds the C++ source to be about as readable as arabic to an english speaker (erm, who doesn't also speak arabic). I have never heard one convincing argument why open source is inherently better than closed source. I have also never heard one convincing argument why closed source is better than open source - which is kind of the point. At no point did I say that. But hey, don't let that stop you foaming at the mouth.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    46. Re:Let the market speaks by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      So you caught the hint in the last sentence, eh?

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    47. Re:Let the market speaks by serialdogma · · Score: 1

      Ah, but when was the last time you abused your wife?

    48. Re:Let the market speaks by Richard+W.M.+Jones · · Score: 1

      I have never heard one convincing argument why open source is inherently better than closed source.

      OK, feeding the troll but here are a few:

      • I may not understand the source, but I can hire a programmer who does to fix it for me. -- example: Would you hire an architect to design you a new-build house and expect the architect to hide the floorplans from you? What would you do if you didn't like architect #1 and wanted to hire a replacement? I have no idea about house architecture (I'm a programmer, not an architect), but I know that if I have the plans I can find another expert in the area.
      • I'm a programmer and I've found a really strange bug in this API call - when I pass a NULL pointer and a zero length, it does something really unexpected. Can I (a) just go and check the implementation of the call to see what the problem is, fully understand it and fix it, or work around it. Or (b) have to guess at what is going on inside this binary blob? [Situation (a) happened to me just this week when working with libxml2].
      • If you were presented with two operating systems, identical for what you wanted to do, but one came with source and the other didn't, which would you choose? Would you really choose the closed source one? Why? Closed source is just like DRM -- really bad for you the customer and only good for the one hiding the plans.

      BTW, Windows could be "source available" without being free of copyright (just as is the case with Linux in fact). Open source is not the same as truly free software.

      Rich.

    49. Re:Let the market speaks by Kalriath · · Score: 1


      OK, feeding the troll but here are a few:

      Just because I disagree with you, does not make me a "troll". You folks seem to forget that.

      I may not understand the source, but I can hire a programmer who does to fix it for me.
      -- example: Would you hire an architect to design you a new-build house and expect the architect to hide the floorplans from you? What would you do if you didn't like architect #1 and wanted to hire a replacement?
      I have no idea about house architecture (I'm a programmer, not an architect), but I know that if I
      have the plans I can find another expert in the area. I'm ignoring your example because it's not relevant - you didn't hire Microsoft to make Windows for you - when you hire a company to make you software you'd better damn well get the code! That said, when you buy prepackaged software from a vendor you already have an option if you find a bug - they call this "support", and the vendor provides it free of charge! That said, I think I would agree that open sourcing of any code for a product (not a version of a product) that the vendor can no longer support is the way to go (say I use Quicken, and Intuit goes out of business - I think that the Quicken code should be released unless someone can be found to support it)

      I'm a programmer and I've found a really strange bug in this API call - when I pass
      a NULL pointer and a zero length, it does something really unexpected. Can I (a) just go and
      check the implementation of the call to see what the problem is, fully understand it and fix it, or work around it.
      Or (b) have to guess at what is going on inside this binary blob? [Situation (a) happened to me just this week when
      working with libxml2]. Your argument centres around the majority of users being programmers. This is not the case, and any vendor with APIs worth it's salt will provide developer support free of charge.

      If you were presented with two operating systems, identical for what you wanted to do,
      but one came with source and the other didn't, which would you choose? Would you really
      choose the closed source one? Why? Closed source is just like DRM -- really bad for you the
      customer and only good for the one hiding the plans. Well, that depends. I'd probably go with whichever one gets the job done faster, with the best (and fastest) support. Given the attitude of the current Linux community to "outsiders" (especially those wanting support) I'd choose whichever isn't Linux. My Linux-fu is not strong, and I often encounter problems with using it (especially want to know why a decent text editor isn't pre-installed (vi is not an option!), or why the decent one is named differently on different releases (nano vs pico anyone?). It's this sort of thing that would cause me to select anything that isn't Linux).


      BTW, Windows could be "source available" without being free of copyright (just as is the case with Linux in fact).
      Open source is not the same as truly free software.

      Could be, but then you've got the whole trust issue. They don't really trust all the unwashed masses with the code (and can you really blame them, considering the sort of attitude they get anytime they do anything, even Good Things?). Really, how could they trust you not to give it away to your friend down the road who didn't buy a copy? Often, the advocates of open source forget that if any competitor can copy a company's code, there's no longer an incentive to innovate at all. Not forgetting that no company would ever bother making software if the profit was $0 because everyone can simply copy the code and share it with friends. It would be wonderful to live in a world where developers make complex software like Linux, BSD, OS X, or Windows just out of fun with no compensation, but the reality is that they have bills to pay and unfortunately the power company doesn't accept payment in Liberation, Love, and Fluffy Bunnies.
      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    50. Re:Let the market speaks by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Does making Liberal Arts jokes at her count?

      "How do you get a LA major off your doorstep? Pay for the pizza!"

    51. Re:Let the market speaks by The+Iso · · Score: 1

      "Immaculate conception" means being born without Original Sin, not being born by a virgin.

      --
      "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." - Bob Dylan
    52. Re:Let the market speaks by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Would you buy a (oh no not again) cheap car with an oil leak, knowing that there's a free and simple way of fixing it?

      You obviously do not know anyone driving an Italian vehicle.

      Mart (owner of two Moto Guzzi motorcycles with various quirks)

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  7. 253 or 352? by DogDude · · Score: 2, Informative

    Either way it's a lot, but the Slashdot editors really suck.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:253 or 352? by Frequency+Domain · · Score: 4, Funny

      You know how Europeans always write their dates the reverse of the USA? This is like that, only different.

    2. Re:253 or 352? by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 1

      Or it's square metres converted into hogsheads. Something like that.

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    3. Re:253 or 352? by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Or it's square metres converted into hogsheads. Something like that.

      Converting "square metres into hogsheads" would be like converting square feet into litres. Or, for that matter, pounds into foot-pounds. Somewhere you are missing a dimension.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    4. Re:253 or 352? by kognate · · Score: 2, Funny

      No he's not. The "missing" dimension is just wrapped up very tightly into the two that you can see. See, M-Theory works!

    5. Re:253 or 352? by garett_spencley · · Score: 1

      "but the Slashdot editors really suck."

      +2 Informative

      Man I wish we could mod moderations. +5 Funny.

    6. Re:253 or 352? by Arthur+Dent+'99 · · Score: 1

      It's obviously a big-endian/little-endian conversion problem. The article was probably written on a PowerPC machine, while you are reading it on an x86 machine. :-)

    7. Re:253 or 352? by Provocateur · · Score: 1

      somewhere you are missing a dimension

      He's from the future, you insensitive clod!

      --
      WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
    8. Re:253 or 352? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Converting "square metres into hogsheads" would be like converting square feet into litres.

      Not necessarily. You can convert square feet of 1/4" plywood into litres of plywood fairly easily.

    9. Re:253 or 352? by idonthack · · Score: 1

      square meters: 1st and 2nd dimensions
      A hogshead is a unit of volume, thus three-dimensional. You cannot convert a two-dimensional unit into three dimensions.
       
      square feet: 1st and 2nd dimensions
        1/4" plywood: the 3rd dimension
      A liter is three-dimensional. You can convert.

      --
      Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
    10. Re:253 or 352? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      The most novel instance where I ran into an 'endian' problem was when I mounted a drive with a filesystem created on a big-endian Unix onto a system with a little-endian Unix running on it.

    11. Re:253 or 352? by einhverfr · · Score: 1


      Not necessarily. You can convert square feet of 1/4" plywood into litres of plywood fairly easily.


      Yeah, but that doesn't work with software drivers ;-)

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    12. Re:253 or 352? by asninn · · Score: 2, Informative

      At least the "European" (and I'm using that word solely because you did - in reality, it's used all over the world) way makes sense - year, month and day are presented in a natural order (little-endian), whereas in the "US-American" notation is just, well, weird. I understand it translates easily from natural language (so "May 1st 2007" becomes "05/01/2007"), but the same can be said about the "European" format ("1st of May 2007" becomes "01/05/2007"), so that's not really an advantage.

      Personally, I prefer and exclusively use the ISO 8601 format (e.g. "2007-05-01") - it's *unambiguous*, natural (big-endian) *and* it sorts in a natural fashion when you sort alphabetically, too. There really is no downside to it at all that I can see, save for the fact that it's not as widely-used world-wide as the "European" notation (but more widely-used than the "US-American" one).

      --
      butter the donkey
    13. Re:253 or 352? by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1

      Somewhere you are missing a dimension.

      And that's the way he likes it!

    14. Re:253 or 352? by MaXMC · · Score: 1

      I'm a "European", I'd never write 01/05/2007 for 1st of May 2007, I'd write 1/5-2007, 01/05-2007, 2007-05-01 or 2007/05/01.
      One thing we have in Sweden (where I live) is the obsession with planning things according to which week of the year it is. This week is week 18 for example http://www.vecka.nu/.

    15. Re:253 or 352? by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 1

      By feeding the sheets into this? I wonder what noise it makes? I'd guess more of a whirr than a whoosh...

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
  8. how many? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    253 or 352?

    1. Re:how many? by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 0, Redundant

      TFA says 352. Is this Dyslexia Day at Slashdot?

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    2. Re:how many? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Waht?

    3. Re:how many? by KretchFoop · · Score: 1

      The article is even self-contradictory on this: it has 352 in the header, 235 in the article (just above the screenshots of the tables), and 253+ in the interview.

    4. Re:how many? by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not Dyslexia, it's Dyscalculia when dealing with numbers.

    5. Re:how many? by snoyberg · · Score: 1

      TFA says 352. Is this Dyslexia Day at Slashdot?

      The dyslexic, agnostic insomniac stayed up all night wondering if there really was a dog...

      --
      Thank God for evolution.
    6. Re:how many? by penp · · Score: 1

      ...and now i notice that the article makes the same error later on. wtf?

    7. Re:how many? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      TFA says 352. Is this Dyslexia Day at Slashdot?



      The article says both 352 and 253.

    8. Re:how many? by treeves · · Score: 4, Funny

      Should have just said "300, give or take 50."

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    9. Re:how many? by ninjafirepants · · Score: 1

      If you RTFA, it says 235, 352, and 253. How this article ever got published is beyond me. Apparently it's some number containing the digits 2, 3 and 5, so if you're a MS fanboi it's 235, and if you're a Linux fanboi it's 532. I would have thought someone bitching about RTFA would have RTFA themselves.

    10. Re:how many? by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      The article says both 352 and 253.

      The article actually lists 352, 253 AND 235. Then again, I've always known that the Inquirer was run by a bunch of keyboard-mashing baboons. Not anything like what they have here at Slashdot, nosiree...

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    11. Re:how many? by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      I think in both cases you're transposing the elements of a character string. I don't think it's worthy of changing what you call it based on whether the characters involved were alphanumeric.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    12. Re:how many? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say Bigendian, I say...

    13. Re:how many? by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 1

      Yes it is, that is why we have words in the first place...to separate and define topics. You don't go around calling the color red "blue" just because we can refer to it as "color."

    14. Re:how many? by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      No, it's more like calling the color red "rett" if you see it on a potato instead of a Chevy.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
  9. spca50x by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 1

    Congratulations to mxhaard! Good job bringing that project up, online, and keeping it alive for so many years. The drivers, spcaview, and spcatools have been excellent quality since I began using them in '99/'00.

    --
    the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
  10. 10 words. by roman_mir · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    No job or life, but lots of nude pic sharing.

  11. how many? by penp · · Score: 1

    how many people are going to point out the error in the summary before it gets fixed? give me a break, typos happen all the time, people. if you RTFA, it says 352 webcams

  12. Dyslexia rears its ugly head by aardwolf64 · · Score: 1

    The article says 352...

    1. Re:Dyslexia rears its ugly head by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article _also_ says 235. Who knows?

    2. Re:Dyslexia rears its ugly head by jonesy16 · · Score: 1

      Actually, the article TITLE says 352 but the text in the article mentions 253 a couple of times.

  13. Ballz? by 6Yankee · · Score: 3, Funny

    from the twelve-cases-of-ballz-later department

    Just don't ask how a physician gets twelve cases of balls... *crosses legs*

    1. Re:Ballz? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      from the twelve-cases-of-ballz-later department
      Just don't ask how a physician gets twelve cases of balls... *crosses legs*
      Just don't date his daughters.
    2. Re:Ballz? by MS-06FZ · · Score: 1

      Have you seen "Grindhouse" yet?

      That should clear things up.

      --
      ---GEC
      I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
    3. Re:Ballz? by gentoofu · · Score: 1

      Is that a Fatal Attraction "crosses legs"?

  14. Mad props by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Mad props 733t d00d, or insert your favorite way to say, great job, thank you, and keep up the good work.

  15. But not, apparently... by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    important enough for his name to get into a Slashdot summary. Oh well, at least he wasn't referred to as "the French Linux driver guy", like how Ramanujan was "the Indian math guy".

    1. Re:But not, apparently... by jez9999 · · Score: 4, Informative

      His name is Michel Xhaard.

    2. Re:But not, apparently... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now we know why you remembered that one, it's so you can whore up your karma after your Linux bashing posts.

    3. Re:But not, apparently... by faragon · · Score: 1, Funny

      rms: This is Michel
      linus: Sir, in... In Project World Conquest, we have no names.
      rms: Now, you listen to me.
      rms: This is a man and he has a name, and it's Michel Xhaard, OK?
      linux overlords: Michel Xhaard.
      linux overlords: He's a man
      rms: and he's a webcam hero because of us. Do you understand that?
      linus: I understand.
      linus: In GPL v3, a member of Project World Conquest has a name.
      linus: His name is Michel Xhaard.
      linux overlords: His name is Michel Xhaard.
      linux overlords: His name is Michel Xhaard.
      rms: Come on, guys. Please. Stop it, and think about the last GPL v3 draft ;-)

    4. Re:But not, apparently... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good to see I'm not the only one thinking that.

    5. Re:But not, apparently... by Hooya · · Score: 0

      now that wasn't too Xhaard, was it, /. editors?

    6. Re:But not, apparently... by tholomyes · · Score: 1

      But what's his /. handle?

      --
      When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat? -C. Palahniuk
    7. Re:But not, apparently... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what's his /. handle?
      He's a physician with two daughters who wrote a driver for some permutation of 2,5,3 webcams.

      Do you really think he's got burnable time for posting on slashdot? Mon dieu, I think not.

      I'd bet if every slashdot regular (myself included) spent all our slashdot time on useful projects, the world would be a much better place.
    8. Re:But not, apparently... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad someone understand it! Humor sense anyone?

    9. Re:But not, apparently... by Trogre · · Score: 1

      So let's tag the article 'michelxhaard'. And 'physicist' while we're at it, since the summary incorrectly labels him a physician.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    10. Re:But not, apparently... by Barny · · Score: 1

      Of course, just got home from work late, and don't have any mod points today ;(

      Deja vu, all over again.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    11. Re:But not, apparently... by A.K.A_Magnet · · Score: 1

      I had the same idea too, great to see someone thinking alike, and well made ;). The sentence "His name is XXXX" always reminds me of Fight Club anyway :P.

  16. Numerical Misquote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it 253 or 352?

  17. Re: Lone Programmer Writes 253 Webcam Drivers For by snowleopard10101 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wow that must be a lot of copy-pastes. His left arm little, middle and index fingers must be pretty fatigued by now.

  18. One man vs A Corporation by rajinikanth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One man with drive, tenacity, and no funding does what no one else can do.

    Should read:

    One man with drive, tenacity, no funding, earning his livelihood elsewhere, and with no one to question whether he earned a dime doing this and with no shareholder expecting you to maximize your profits does what no one else can do. A corporation will start off asking "How many people will use webcams on linux and how much $$ can we make if we write drivers for them".

    1. Re:One man vs A Corporation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please mod up

  19. I hate this.. by .Chndru · · Score: 5, Informative

    The man wrote 350+ drivers. How about some link love for him, slashdot? http://mxhaard.free.fr/spca5xx.html

    1. Re:I hate this.. by ettlz · · Score: 1

      How about some link love for him, slashdot?
      You do realise that around here, "link love" can mean "fucked webserver"?
    2. Re:I hate this.. by Jerome+H · · Score: 2

      His page is static and the content hoster is an ISP so I doubt you can slashdot it. Yes Free is an ISP in France who is also mirroring ubuntu.

      --
      int main() { while(1) fork(); }
  20. so by wwmedia · · Score: 1

    so is it 253 or 352??

  21. A new low in editorial standards - not just on /. by sloth+jr · · Score: 1

    352 webcams, 253 webcams - which is correct? Impossible to find out with this article, since the referenced article refers to BOTH numbers, just as the summary article and headline on slashdot do! Sheesh.

  22. Physicist, not physician ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you read his CV on his website, you'll notice that he is a physicist, not a physician.

    The confusion stems from the interview, where he calls himself a physician:
    physicist is called "physicien" (pronounced "physician) in French !

    Stephane

  23. Academic research and corporate research by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    Take a look at the research fields, many scientists work in academics with publishing papers and getting a name for themselves is considered to be a great reward and the tenure and job security an important almost equal second reward. But there is no dearth of researchers working for profit making enterprises and they freely exchange ideas. The corporate world even funds research by the academics.

    In software too there are lots of people contributing who see nothing more than a tiny credit notice buried deep in the binary or in the header comments as rewards enough. Many of these contributors are actually academic researchers. Almost in every office/cubicle you would see books like Numerical Recipes. Wish the open source contributors would be seen and respected as academic researchers. Like the academics, these developers work on projects they like and fiercely independent.

    Corporations whose main core business is not really computers and technology would be wise to invest in creating independent institutions that can create standard compliant implementations.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  24. 352? by b1ng0 · · Score: 1

    Is somebody dyslexic?

    1. Re:352? by stam66 · · Score: 1

      Is somebody dyslexic? Well, Dyslexics have more fnu, as they say...
    2. Re:352? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you meant lysdexic.

    3. Re:352? by jlindy · · Score: 1

      Is somebody dyslexic? I am you insensitive clod! :-)
  25. Not 352 seperate drivers by rminsk · · Score: 5, Informative

    The programmer did not write 352 seperate drivers for web cams, he wrote drivers for 8 different camera bridge chips and different versions of those chipss.

    1. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know about you, but in that case he beats me by at least 8 bridge chips and numerous versions thereof ...

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    2. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by ewhac · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Having written my share of device drivers, that's still an accomplishment worthy of note, especially if the documentation was thin or (unjustifiably, all-too often) non-existent.

      Schwab

    3. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by 644bd346996 · · Score: 1

      I figured as much. This article is kinda like saying linux has 500+ tv tuner drivers, when basically everything is covered by the bt848/878 driver.

    4. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With that many variations of a single driver, one has to wonder if fuzzing could replace documentation. Leave a computer and a webcam alone for a while and you get another driver...

    5. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 2, Informative

      that's what I figured.

      If you wrote a Brooktree 848 driver, you just in theory, supported probably a good 100+ or more analog video-in cards.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    6. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, but instead of writing one driver to support one chipset, he wrote one driver to support eight chipsets. Being able to get that right was probably annoying; consider how hard it is to get any driver right. Especially considering that these drivers were all reverse engineered.

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
    7. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by pclminion · · Score: 1

      The programmer did not write 352 seperate drivers for web cams, he wrote drivers for 8 different camera bridge chips and different versions of those chipss.

      As an analogy, imagine that you could design 8 different car alternators that, collectively, could function properly in 352 different models of cars. Aren't you more impressed by what the guy managed to AVOID doing, rather than what he would have wasted his time doing that wasn't necessary?
    8. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Leave a computer and a webcam alone for a while and you get another driver...

      Yeah, but it'll be a bastardized version, I'm sure.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    9. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but I've got a BT848 card and it does not work correctly with the BT848 driver in Linux. There is some kind of interference. The Windows driver does work. This example only goes to show that an extra effort may be required to get all of those 300+ webcams working, even if they are using only 8 chipsets.

    10. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Shame it was actually me who did the reverse engineering, for which I have not been credited in this article.

      Go read the README in the driver or look at the source code history on spca50x.sourceforge.net

      It took me 6 months due to the thin and non-existent documentation.

      Cydergoth

    11. Re:Not 352 seperate drivers by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      I'm not downplaying what he did, I'm just highlighting the fact that often many manufacturers use common, off the shelf parts for video capture, etc. Which IS a great feat. I mean, I do owe whoever wrote the Brooktree 848 driver a goddamn beer or whatever he drinks because MY card now works in Linux. :)

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  26. Damn.. by Mockylock · · Score: 2, Funny

    Too bad all the stupid chicks that show their tits, don't use linux.

    --
    "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
    1. Re:Damn.. by matt+me · · Score: 4, Funny

      Too bad all the stupid chicks that show their tits, don't use linux. Too bad for you all the stupid chicks who use linux don't show their tits. :p
    2. Re:Damn.. by Mockylock · · Score: 1

      Well, they wouldn't be stupid then, would they ;)

      --
      "Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
  27. O'lala by zakeria · · Score: 0

    the French kiss!

  28. not that big of deal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    for everyone goin on and on about "wow, thats so much code, so many drivers! what an incredible hacker!" -- its prolly not that much. a single driver supports over 250 cams, the dude even says so himself:

    Starting with the Sunplus chipset support, I realised that most code in the core driver could be "shareable" to support several webcam chipset(s). That is why the "GSPCA" drivers now support over 250 webcams from different chipset vendors. looks like a single driver that supports over 250 devices, not 250 drivers.
    1. Re:not that big of deal... by VON-MAN · · Score: 1

      Fantastic, you are moron number 46 who says exactly the same stupid thing. Post-'n'-run eh? Thing is, you DID read the posts above, or you wouldn't be speaking of "everyone going on and on...".

  29. Behind every great inventor by Demona · · Score: 3, Funny

    So where is the heroic bureaucrat who can get this hellhole running so efficiently, that all the labour can be done by a single Australian man?

    --
    Fuck Slashdot
    1. Re:Behind every great inventor by Wolvie+MkM · · Score: 1

      I think he's requisitioning his groove back.

      --
      I Like Pie...
  30. Re:In other news... by IdleTime · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe, but according to the article, he has had sex at least two times more than you have.

    --
    If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
  31. whew! by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    thats a lot of webcams,he was probably as busy as a one-armed paper hanger for a long time. i bet horny teenage boys around the world appreciate this, personally i have no use for a webcam...

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  32. For once by einhverfr · · Score: 5, Funny

    one can argue that this was not entirely the fault of Slashdot editors. Maybe the real number was 532?

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:For once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there is only one real number and that is 42 If that's truly the case, then I think you mean there are only 42 real numbers, and they are all 42.
    2. Re:For once by Chysn · · Score: 2, Funny

      > one can argue that this was not entirely the fault of Slashdot editors. Maybe the real number was 532?

      Can't we just agree on a million?

      Damn, a million webcams. That's pretty good work.

      --
      --I'm so big, my sig has its own sig.
      -- See?
    3. Re:For once by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      From the Liber Al vel Legis (Book of the Law): "Every number is infinite, there is no difference."

      From the Liber call me Al (Book of In-laws): "Every number is infinite, fire thine accountant.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  33. Donation Link?? by Harmonious+Botch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How about a link to his paypal account? Anyone?
    I'd donate a few bucks.

    1. Re:Donation Link?? by AchiIIe · · Score: 5, Informative

      You only need an email address (or phone number) to send paypal money. And here you go: mxhaard@magic.fr

      Paypal link: Send money - Enter email or phone

      -- Note: It's on his website as well: http://mxhaard.free.fr/apropos.html

      --
      Nature journal lied in Britannica vs Wikipedia Ask to retrac
    2. Re:Donation Link?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about a link to his paypal account? Anyone?
      I'd donate a few bucks. You can have a link to mine if it helps.
  34. Re:352 vs 253 by Hercules+Peanut · · Score: 1

    and in other news, dyslexia runs rampant on dotslash...flim and elven.

  35. Capture Peripherals Are the Red-Headed by mpapet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    step children in the computer world. Especially web cams.

    Add to that the misery of attempting to hack to every proprietary firmware variation on every camera and hunting down someone who knows something about the camera firmware/driver and the misery is tripled. I know I owe this guy for my webcam working like magic.

    In theory with SIP (VOIP) video conferencing is ready for the masses, but I still don't see web cams taking off as a kind of must-have accessory. You still don't see brands like HP jumping in and flushing logitech out of the business.

    Anyone have any insight as to why that is?

    The best one I ever saw was a USB product that was sold under the Kodak brand. I was shocked at how bad the integrated web cam in the mac laptop is.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    1. Re:Capture Peripherals Are the Red-Headed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I was shocked at how bad the integrated web cam in the mac laptop is

      You were shocked a webcam on a chip no bigger than a quarter inch square was bad? Did you think Apple had magic powers? The Steve Jobs reality distortion field extended to each and every laptop? Are you surprised the camera on your cell phone doesn't take pictures as well as a $400 dedicated device?

    2. Re:Capture Peripherals Are the Red-Headed by Bluesman · · Score: 1

      "Anyone have any insight as to why that is?"

      Because, when it comes right down to it, being able to see the person you're talking to in real time is just not that necessary, or even desirable, for most people. Definitely not worth the hassle if it takes any extra effort at all.

      How much extra information is conveyed by the small picture of a person staring into a web cam? Not a whole lot. What difference would it make if you just saw a small picture of the person you're talking to? Again, not a whole lot.

      The only use I've found for a web cam is sending video of my kids to my parents, but even then, a camcorder does a much better job.

      --
      If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
    3. Re:Capture Peripherals Are the Red-Headed by trawg · · Score: 1

      You were shocked a webcam on a chip no bigger than a quarter inch square was bad? Yeh, with that in mind, I was actually surprised about how _good_ it was.
    4. Re:Capture Peripherals Are the Red-Headed by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Anyone have any insight as to why that is?

      Because while they were creating standard driver profiles for mass storage and ethernet they forgot to make a standard for webcams.

      Really quite stupid, too. But then, USB is shit.

      Note that there is a standard for video on firewire, but it's a crap one as it mandates a fixed resolution.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Capture Peripherals Are the Red-Headed by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      Add to that the misery of attempting to hack to every proprietary firmware variation on every camera and hunting down someone who knows something about the camera firmware/driver and the misery is tripled. I know I owe this guy for my webcam working like magic.

      In theory with SIP (VOIP) video conferencing is ready for the masses, but I still don't see web cams taking off as a kind of must-have accessory. You still don't see brands like HP jumping in and flushing logitech out of the business.

      Anyone have any insight as to why that is?

      Yes. Because the price is too low and there's no consumable. It's not worth pumping R&D money into a product that sells for $15, generates no repeat business (as printers do), and is used by webcamwhores (so it's not a loss leader to attract customers to other expensive products). The lucrative end of that market, as you say, is with videoconferencing clients, and you do see competition there.

    6. Re:Capture Peripherals Are the Red-Headed by amohat · · Score: 1

      If the Macbook webcam shocked you, then you must not have seen the HP dv series webcams, because they are waaay worse.

      And the Dell M1210 webcam? Absolutely terrible...so grainy...almost unusable. So bad, in fact, I wanted to destroy someone's career at Dell. And that's before I found that the supplied drivers BSOD constantly on even a fresh factory install: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=9 8714

      No, my friend, the Macbook web cam is excellent in comparison.

      And the Lenovo 3000 V100 is even better, and that's what shocked me.

      Check it out: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2 968

  36. Object oriented? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder whether he used an object oriented approach? Many cameras share common functionality, whether it be chipset or processing method, so much of that functionality could be inherited and tweaked according to the camera at hand. Doing so makes the task of targeting so many cameras that much easier. This is not to take anything away from the work this guy did, just an observation from the side lines.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:Object oriented? by DaleGlass · · Score: 4, Informative

      See my other post, it's the same thing as with sound cards for instance. Linux doesn't have a driver specifically for the "Creative SB Live Value", it has a driver for the EMU10K1 chip the card is based on. This driver works for several models of the SB Live series, and perhaps even for non-Creative cards if some other company builds cards using the EMU10K1 chip.

    2. Re:Object oriented? by Pyrroc · · Score: 1

      The beauty of Open Source is that you can go see....

      --
      "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    3. Re:Object oriented? by f1055man · · Score: 1

      Why wonder when you can RTFA?

      FC: So how did the ice ball grow to reach today's 253+ webcams supported with several different chipsets?
      MX: Starting with the Sunplus chipset support, I realised that most code in the core driver could be "shareable" to support several webcam chipset(s). That is why the "GSPCA" drivers now support over 250 webcams from different chipset vendors.

    4. Re:Object oriented? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Well, I haven't designed a driver in my life, but having looked at some toolkits, protocols etc. I imagine he'd have a capability struct/flags for every camera, abstracting out the implementation into specifc functions and leaving all the common functionality to call standard functions like setResolution( x, y ) where the implementation is either a big switch statement or like I've seen in C++ at least, that you set pointers to functions. I'm sure someone with more clues on how it's done in driver programming can fill you in, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Object oriented? by mabinogi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There actually isn't anything about the concept of reusing code that implies object orientation, and nothing about inherent in OOP that requires reuse.

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    6. Re:Object oriented? by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1

      Yes, because only with object-oriented code can you share common functionality.

    7. Re:Object oriented? by LizardKing · · Score: 1

      Except this driver is written in plain old C (not that you can't do OOP in C - see Glib and GTK+ - but it wasn't designed with it in mind).

  37. First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    To not give up.

    1. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If of course, by "in history", you mean other than 99.9% of the rest of history.

      The French are notorious for not giving up, with one exception, when their "allies" deserted them with the entire German army on their doorstep.

      "Liberty or Death" is a false dichotomy, and a phrase that can only be repeated by someone that has never had to make that choice.
      You don't win wars by dying, you win them by living.

    2. Re:First frenchman in history by pivo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      French surrender jokes are the favorite joke of people who know just enough history to know that the French surrendered to the Germans during WWII. These surrender joke tellers probably learned this history when they read someone else's surrender joke and then figured out what it meant. It makes these people feel smart that they now know enough history to make this joke. There's probably some internet law that states that any story involving France or the French will eventually accumulate a surrender joke in the comment area. Jokes like these are the essence of not funny.

    3. Re:First frenchman in history by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      There's probably some internet law that states that any story involving France or the French will eventually accumulate a surrender joke in the comment area

      Yeah, so I guess you'd better give up complaining about them, Monsieur Pivo.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    4. Re:First frenchman in history by 644bd346996 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Honestly, so what? Even the french people I know make jokes about surrendering and retreating. Don't try to draw a parallel between making jokes about france and one's intelligence.

    5. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For those of us that deal globally with many countries and cultures, the answer is clear: While most of the French people are fairly nice, we find their government and "culture" to be arrogant and insincere, particularly the official attitude toward individual Americans over the years.

      Even Willie calls them "cheese eating surrender monkeys", which is an admitted slur, simply from being fed up. After dealing with many French over the years in business, who consider most Americans to be "Jethro Bodine", you can't help but to come to the same conclusion.

      So we still do business, find most to be pleasant, but many to be quite boring and offensive. And as the official Jethro Bodine in this thread, I just no longer care what the French think about it.

    6. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a false dichotomy. It's typically used as a literal statement. And one doesn't win liberty without risking death.

    7. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, he still surrendered after finishing the 253rd driver. There are still a few drivers out there that have yet to be supported.

    8. Re:First frenchman in history by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Figures it would be a Frenchman. Once again, the French are waaaaay ahead of the curve.....

    9. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to disagree, but the French army pre WWII was considered one of the strongest armys in the world, in fact considered the equal of the German army if not its superior.

      The absolute pasting they took under the German Blitzkrieg is why they suffer surrender jokes.

    10. Re:First frenchman in history by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For those of us that deal globally with many countries and cultures, the answer is clear: While most of the French people are fairly nice, we find their government and "culture" to be arrogant and insincere, particularly the official attitude toward individual Americans over the years.
      As an American, can I just say that though the French may have deservedly earned such a reputation (I'm not sure how deservedly in general, by my personal experiences corroborate it), your post is the height of hypocracy? The American hubris is awful, considering we are falling down the same slope of crashing hegemony as the French did -- and very soon all we'll have left is our pride. We talk of the superiority of the American political system, American sports, American pop culture, etc -- but the Chinese or the Indians or the Pacific Rim countries will scoff at our arrogant hubris when it's all we have left.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    11. Re:First frenchman in history by Red+Flayer · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      The absolute pasting they took under the German Blitzkrieg is why they suffer surrender jokes.
      They failed to foresee the mobility of the German war machine, as I'm sure you know. If the Maginot Line had extended into the Alps, we'd likely be saluting the French for their bravery and sacrifice.

      That said, Vichy France was VERY helpful to the Germans, and many Americans can't let go of the ideal of the valiant rebel fighting on in guerilla warfare as some kind of Platonic ideal. Thus, to the simplistic American, all French are now mistakenly considered surrender monkeys who not only surrendered, but aided the enemy.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    12. Re:First frenchman in history by darklordyoda · · Score: 1

      The first example I think of is generally the Franco-Prussian War:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Prussian_War

      To be fair, though, that wasn't really about France surrendering prematurely, as it was more about Bismarck thoroughly kicking some ass. (future consequences aside)

    13. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the French surrendered to the Germans during WWII
      That's it? That's the source of all those jokes? Seriously, I didn't know and can't understand why anyone would even find that funny. I honestly can't think of a single thing about WWII that I'd call "funny" and of all people americans should know better. What if the rest of the world started judging americans based on what their leaders do? Would you appreciate an endless stream of IQ jokes at your expense? (Bush) Corruption jokes? (Nixon) Administrative blowjobs? (Clinton) How a big coutry like yours lost againt tiny Vietnam? (JFK, Nixon) Freedom fries? (Some imbecil politician) Or maybe some wisecracks about oil, your progress in Iraq and WMD's? (Bush) At the moment americans are the posterboy for corruption so maybe there's a funny joke in that?

      Think about it, would you really like the rest of the world to hold you - as individuals - responsible for the actions of your leaders? Thought so. Americans love self-deprecating humor as long as they're the ones cracking jokes at their own expense, but they wouldn't appreciate it if someone else did it. And don't even pretend it wouldn't get to you because I know it would.

      (Note: this post is directed at americans in general, not parent)
    14. Re:First frenchman in history by MrNaz · · Score: 4, Funny

      A smart post. But he said he's American. But it's actually insightful. But he's an American. Gargh! My mind can't handle the upheaval of reality!

      --
      I hate printers.
    15. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      French people are more obnoxious than average, but New Yorkers take the cake.

    16. Re:First frenchman in history by Anomolous+Cowturd · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I dunno... I don't see much American admiration for the valiant Iraqi rebels.

      Hey! What if they littered Iraq with cheese instead of bodies and rubble? I think I know what dubya's brilliant strategy #24 will be, once the "surge" fails. The cheese surge!

      I'm a genius.

      --
      Software patents delenda est.
    17. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dang! I'm looking for the +n Funny comment to see a new French surrender joke. maybe later in the comments :)

    18. Re:First frenchman in history by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      But the Iraqi rebels aren't rebelling against the Axis of Evil (tm)... they are the Axis of Evil (tm). Why would Americans cheer on the hordes of Satan?

      Only half-joking, too many Americans view the Iraqi war in a biblical end-times context.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    19. Re:First frenchman in history by Fordiman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um. We already make that endless stream of jokes, man.

      Want them to stop? Stop being so pissy when they're told.

      I mean, we're rather used to the fat, stupid, lazy american jokes, even if by and large they're not true. Do they stop? Dunno. Don't care. They're usually passed in mean spirit (whereas you can hardly consider 'surrendermonkey' as meanspirited; it's got the word 'monkey' in it), and I kinda just ignore such things.
      "Think about it, would you really like the rest of the world to hold you - as individuals - responsible for the actions of your leaders?"

      Lots of people do; why do you think the US considers our president such an embarrssment? Not saying it's right, but it *is* par for the course.

      Also, I'd like to state for the record that it's fundamentally impossible to pin down the behavior of americans in general; geographically alone, we're too damned huge to be homogenous. Add to that the level of cultural difference you can experience in almost any large city in the world by walking two blocks, and you'll get the idea.

      Anyway, in short, get the fuck over it, surrendermonkey. ^_^

      --
      110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
    20. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If by 'deserted' you mean 'were driven into the sea', then yes, France's allies deserted France in WWII in the face of the Wehrmacht.

    21. Re:First frenchman in history by tgrigsby · · Score: 0, Troll

      Spoken like a true cheese eating surrender monkey.

      Score: 0, Troll


      Troll?! Oh come on, that's some funny stuff!

      --
      *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
    22. Re:First frenchman in history by salimma · · Score: 1

      That said, Vichy France was VERY helpful to the Germans, and many Americans can't let go of the ideal of the valiant rebel fighting on in guerilla warfare as some kind of Platonic ideal. Thus, to the simplistic American, all French are now mistakenly considered surrender monkeys who not only surrendered, but aided the enemy.

      Of course, the French Maquis fits the "valiant rebel" description quite well, and it's not that there were not many British Loyalists among the American colonists at the start of the War of Independence anyway.

      There are even quite a few movies made about the French Resistance. Perhaps some of them are considered beyond the pale to some Americans, because of the two resistance movements, one is led by an American-snubbing De Gaulle and the other is, well, Communist..
      --
      Michel
      Fedora Project Contribut
    23. Re:First frenchman in history by lordSaurontheGreat · · Score: 1
      The French had a glorious Empire that was massively more powerful than the British Empire at the time in the pre-Napoleanic years. Napolean brought them to their greatest height, and their worst defeat of the 19th Century.

      The reason for the French jokes is that 20th century France is just a long tale of surrenders, from WWI to WWII to Viet Nam. The French soiled their history with some modern faux paus, nothing more.

      --
      Consider yourself spoken to.
    24. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the Maginot line had extended into the Alps, the outcome would have been the same. The Germans took their traditional route to Paris: through the low-land countries - not a lot of Alp around that way. Now, if they had've extended the Maginot line along the Belgian border, things would have been different.

    25. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, it might have been the "entire" German Army, HOWEVER, the French STILL had more men, weapons, and supplies, and were ALSO in a defensive position . . . they had a huge advantage.

      The problem was, the Germans were smarter, and a whole lot more motivated.

      This written with respect for the French, Germans, British, and all who lost life and limb in that campaign, as well as the rest of the war.

    26. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We talk of the superiority of the American political system, American sports, American pop culture, etc -- but the Chinese or the Indians or the Pacific Rim countries will scoff at our arrogant hubris when it's all we have left.

      Hmm... I really don't know.

      I mean, Yao is obviously one of the all-time greats, but no way does he beat Michael, at least in a historical sense, considering when each was at his prime.

      And as for the Indians, well, they're smart and friendly people, but I think everyone knows that they Just Can't Jump.

    27. Re:First frenchman in history by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think the American attitude comes from the John Wayne complex we have. The perception is that only cowards and women need people to do their fighting for them (which was the perception of the insulated Americans at home during WWII). Americans at home had no idea of what the French faced; a lot of Americans overseas were just bitter with their lot in the war.

      There are even quite a few movies made about the French Resistance. Perhaps some of them are considered beyond the pale to some Americans, because of the
      I'll cut that off right there, since the reasons they are beyond the pale to Americans are because they don't glorify America, and because they aren't about Americans. We're so self-centered that even movies about Britain need to be about Americans in Britain.

      Not speaking for all Americans, hell, I'm not even speaking of my own views, but mainstream American culture disgusts me.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    28. Re:First frenchman in history by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Doh, sorry. Mistook North for South again; should have said 'if the Maginot line extended to the North Sea'.

      Just goes to show the wonders of the American educational system :)

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    29. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyway, in short, get the fuck over it, surrendermonkey. ^_^
      Dude, I'm not French so calling me "surrendermonkey" is hardly going to get under my skin, heh. I'm not in the least bit surprised you thought I was, though. What you may not realize is that the French are the least likely to care, because by now they're used to it. In fact, I can't even remember a French guy ever commenting on these jokes, and those who do are more likely to be Europeans (like me), Asians or whatever. You make one good point, though:

      Also, I'd like to state for the record that it's fundamentally impossible to pin down the behavior of americans in general; geographically alone, we're too damned huge to be homogenous.
      Yeah, not all americans are the same, I know this first hand, but the majority of americans who are vocal about these things and represent the american public in media often do fit the obnoxious sterotype I'm talking about (Bush and his apologists, for instance). What I don't get is why the american public is so indifferent towards it, it's frikkin' infuriating to me. A vast number of people never even voted when Bush was re-elected, I mean WTF? Is Bush really the lesser of two evils when compared to Kerry? Somehow I doubt it.

      Don't misunderstand, I have no particular love for the French and I'm indifferent towards them as a people (I've never even been to France, but I'm sure it's a lovely place except for what I hear is a horrendeous beaurocracy). No, it's the taunting attitude of americans that really bugs me. Fuck it. I hereby officially give up hope on the US... and, I'm going to lunch =^)
    30. Re:First frenchman in history by dchaley · · Score: 1

      The reason for the French jokes is that 20th century France is just a long tale of surrenders, from WWI Err, the French surrendered in WWI?
    31. Re:First frenchman in history by lordSaurontheGreat · · Score: 1
      Eh, sorry, mental slip.

      They got their butts kicked and almost lost Paris. My bad... sorry Frogs, guess my memory just ain't what it used to be!

      --
      Consider yourself spoken to.
    32. Re:First frenchman in history by MishgoDog · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well said! I'm an Aussie, I've lived in France for about 5 months, have quite a few American friends (but am yet to go there). In today's world, I'm sorry to all the Americans out there, but they are generally viewed as the absolute height of arrogant. When I was in France, I was often treated rudely, yes... until they realised that I was Australian, not American or English. English, because of the longstanding rivalry between the two countries, American, because worldwide they're pretty famous for their arrogance. In fact, most of my American friends are quite apologetic about it! :P Feel free to blast me, but I'm just trying to say pot, kettle, black!

    33. Re:First frenchman in history by gowen · · Score: 4, Informative
      The British were driven into the sea, but the Belgian king rather meekly capitulated, which exposed the left flank of the retreating Brits and the French. If you read Churchill's "Fight Them On The Beaches" speech (as reprinted in last weeks Guardian) he makes explicit reference to this

      Yet at the last moment, when Belgium was already invaded, King Leopard called upon us to come to his aid, and even at the last moment we came. He and his brave, efficient Army, nearly half a million strong, guarded our left flank and thus kept open our only line of retreat to the sea. Suddenly, without prior consultation, with the least possible notice, without the advice of his Ministers and upon his own personal act, he sent a plenipotentiary to the German Command, surrendered his Army, and exposed our whole flank and means of retreat.

      I asked the House a week ago to suspend its judgment because the facts were not clear, but I do not feel that any reason now exists why we should not form our own opinions upon this pitiful episode. The surrender of the Belgian Army compelled the British at the shortest notice to cover a flank to the sea more than 30 miles in length. Otherwise all would have been cut off, and all would have shared the fate to which King Leopold had condemned the finest Army his country had ever formed. So in doing this and in exposing this flank, as anyone who followed the operations on the map will see, contact was lost between the British and two out of the three corps forming the First French Army, who were still farther from the coast than we were, and it seemed impossible that any large number of Allied troops could reach the coast.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    34. Re:First frenchman in history by McFadden · · Score: 1

      hell, I'm not even speaking of my own views, but mainstream American culture disgusts me.
      Out of curiosity, when was your multiple-personality disorder diagnosed? And yes, I'm talking to both of you...
    35. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A riddle:

      Is it better to be a Cheese-eating Surrender Monkey, or a Burger-eating Invasion Monkey?

    36. Re:First frenchman in history by alphamugwump · · Score: 1, Informative

      Don't forget the franco-prussian war, the french revolution, and Henry V. After Henry, they had to have a girl take it back. Seriously, the french have lost a LOT of wars. And a lot of them were on their own ground, too. It's one thing to lose your colonies; that happens to everyone. But to get repeatedly pwned over the centuries is sort of special, I think.

    37. Re:First frenchman in history by MORB · · Score: 1

      I think that both americans and french are arrogant. We are pot, you are kettle in that respect.
      But as to your general conclusion "some french are nice, some aren't"... Well, duh.

    38. Re:First frenchman in history by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Actually politics doomed the french. Namely their desire not to appear hostile to Belgium by either completing the Maginot line along the france-belgium border or completing it along the belgium-germany border. The latter of which would have been a fairly obviously hostile act.

      Well that and not using their "world's largest army" to invade Germany when they violated the treaty of Versailles by building up forces in the Rhineland. But that doesn't have any implications for modern foreign policy whatsoever.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    39. Re:First frenchman in history by packeteer · · Score: 1

      How is the parent a troll? He was pointing out the irony of an American saying Americans are stupid, but he was saying it very intelligently. I thought the parent post was kinda funny actually.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    40. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow - an American using big words. Maybe all of these racial stereotypes are unjustified after all :-)

    41. Re:First frenchman in history by Hyperspite · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As an american, I believe I can say quite easily that our sports and pop culture suck. I don't give a crap about Britney spears, and our feverant love of professional sports is the most inane thing I can think of. That said, I think the relative merits of our political system are much more debatable despite the bad apples in it (at least you can point to the amended constitution for good clean fun). Also, if the Indians and the Chinese want to bring some competition, let them. If we can't compete with them, what's the point of being "superior"?

    42. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    43. Re:First frenchman in history by Stalks · · Score: 1

      I think in this particular context, naming a side the 'Axis of Evil' isn't as straight forward.

    44. Re:First frenchman in history by Aliriza · · Score: 1

      If linux get widely used and we push the manufacturer of the webcams they would develop their webcam drivers and put is the box. As a conclusion our "Lone Programmer" won't have to write drivers for webcams but he'll use his webcam and find a girl friend and go out and have some one. Shame on you :)

    45. Re:First frenchman in history by aunitt · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or to make things worse, they take things that the Brits did (before the Yanks entered the War) and pretended that Americans did it. :)

    46. Re:First frenchman in history by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

      I think most people realize pretty well that governments are not very representative of the general public of a country. Even in democratic countries most people vote for the "least bad option". We europeans don't judge americans from the actions of your leaders. We judge you based on the supposedly "general public" we see on shows like Ricky Lake, Jerry Springer and similar. :)

      --
      My other account has a 3-digit UID.
    47. Re:First frenchman in history by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      I think it first came about in that Simpsons episode where Truman printed a trillion dollar bill to give to "our allies who fought so poorly, and surrendered so readily". I hope this isn't what the American public in general thinks, but it does seem to be.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    48. Re:First frenchman in history by operato · · Score: 2, Informative

      in my opinion, king leopold didn't meekly capitulated, he did what he had to do. the belgian army was pounded by armour and air divisions. the germans had broken through the lines and king leopold had said if this were to happen they would have to surrender to both the french and british. however, the message arrived too late and the rest, as they say, is history. if he had not surrendered, his people would have been butchered into submission anyways. he had to save the lives of his people even if it would cost him his freedom. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,8 51143,00.html

    49. Re:First frenchman in history by EinZweiDrei · · Score: 1

      Of course, there was also a bit of 'oops' involved.

      --
      Perhaps life really is full of possibilities.
    50. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      American sports? What the fuck are those? All the best sports in the world are English, everyone knows that.

    51. Re:First frenchman in history by Himring · · Score: 1

      The Belgians also, keenly, drug out talks with the germans for 24 hours, buying precious time for the near 400,000 allied troops to be transferred via the channel during operations dynamo. Regardless of the shame that was the battle of france in 1940, dunkirk was a spectacular event ensuring britian could continue to harrass, and keep germany busy.

      The history of france, as a whole, is very admirable, but do not begin defending their actions during the early stages of ww2 by blaming their allies. The french did an exceptional job of doing a bad job of dealing with the battle of france. Their army was apathetic and lazy. The command structure under ganivil (?) was severly flawed. The commander of the BEF was appalled at it. Politics had infiltrated the entire structure of the army at the top, and its leaders were out of touch with both their men and the front -- keeping headquarters closer to paris than where the men were stationed.

      Key orders took hours if not days to arrive during the battle. The french were often hours late to alloted offenses leaving the BEF to go alone. When one french general died in a car crash, his replacement didn't get order for an entire day and when he arrived at headquarters he was greeted by the germans.

      Combine this with the out-dated tactics vs panzer groups, where french commenders kept trying to check german tank advances with infantry movements and the battle was a fore-gone conclusion. The thing is, the french actually had better tanks, just didn't know how to use them.

      Also, the french had invested massive amounts of money for their war-preparedness effort into the magino line, which proved uesless. This money could have been spent far better in other areas -- such as raising morale for troops by increasing pay.

      Still, the failure was more to blame on french leadership than anything. There were many instances where the french fought bravely, and later in the war -- when all the poor leadership was gone -- the free-french armies did an excellent job putting much hurt on the germans.

      But the loss and failure and defeat of the allies in france in 1940 was indeed on the hands of the french. The BEF did all it could....

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    52. Re:First frenchman in history by AdamWeeden · · Score: 2, Funny

      False dichotomy, the correct answer is Cheeseburger Eating Isolationist Monkey!

      --
      I was quoted out of context in my autobiography...
    53. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How could the Maginot line POSSIBLY extend to the North Sea? France has no coast on the North Sea.

      Jesus, man, fire up Google Earth once in a while.

    54. Re:First frenchman in history by endianx · · Score: 1

      And don't even pretend it wouldn't get to you because I know it would. No, it really would not, supposing the joke actually possessed some comedic value. Just as saying "the French are cowards" is not funny, saying "Americans are stupid" is not funny. Here is an example of a joke that is funny, regardless of what you think of the French military. Finding that joke funny does not mean you do not know that France has one of the best militaries in the world.
    55. Re:First frenchman in history by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      The thing is, the french actually had better tanks, just didn't know how to use them.
      Ah ah! No! They knew, but they didn't use them because the stupid military that guarded the tanks refused to give it to the troops without a written order from the ministry of defense, and everybody there was long gone to find safety in the south of France.

      Really, I'm french so I may be biaised, but this war, we lost it alone and on our own. Lazy and unprepared were two reasons for the army to fail, but unmotivated was also a huge one. No one wanted to fight, and the higher you went in the army's hierarchy, the less they were prepared to fight. Actually, some even thought the germans were freeing them from the very unloved government while others saw the germans as saviors from the communist threat.

      Really, no one wanted to fight, and some generals didn't even want to win at all! Not very surprising we lost ;-)

    56. Re:First frenchman in history by rainer_d · · Score: 1

      To this date, it is unknown why German troops stopped short of throwing the British into the water at Dunkirk.
      They had the means to do it and actually wanted to go forward - but Hitler ordered his generals to stop. Thus the British could salvage a large supply of troops and material.

      I'm German, but I'm not sorry for the outcome. The end-result was bad enough, even with a military "genius" like Hitler at the top...

      --
      Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
    57. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being a fellow american, dont sweat it. He is the exception and not the rule.

      Just look at our president. We usually vote in the best and brightest.

      Gw bush is the best and brightest we have.... Oh crap. the movie Idiocracy is becoming a reality.

    58. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just like "porchmonkey", right? It would be hard to get offended by that.

    59. Re:First frenchman in history by steelfood · · Score: 1

      I mean, we're rather used to the fat, stupid, lazy american jokes, even if...they're not true The latter is up for debate, but the other two...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_united _states

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_ranking s_of_the_United_States
      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    60. Re:First frenchman in history by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      See I always took "Liberty or Death" as we better have Liberty or we're going to start killing you oppressors.

      I blame Germany for France's surrender, not France.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    61. Re:First frenchman in history by laughing+rabbit · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, the French, never lost a battle; never won a war.

      --
      No incumbents, not no where, not no how.
      Vote them out every term.
    62. Re:First frenchman in history by Gallowglass · · Score: 1

      Actually, the incident you refer to was not done by the British navy, but by the Canadian navy. See http://www.mnq-nmq.org/capsule/articles/U-571_e.ht m

    63. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I appreciate that but my webcam still doesn't work!

    64. Re:First frenchman in history by saintlupus · · Score: 1

      Porchmonkey? I'm taking it back. It's okay.

      --saint

    65. Re:First frenchman in history by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      The French are notorious for not giving up, with one exception, when their "allies" deserted them with the entire German army on their doorstep.

      Wrong. France surrendered, the French didn't. The Résistance might not have been an army, but it was there and I see it as a testament on their tenacity.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    66. Re:First frenchman in history by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      I'm waiting for the WWII movie where the Brits, the French, the Russians and the Germans will be completely replaced by Americans...

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    67. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll cut that off right there, since the reasons they are beyond the pale to Americans are because they don't glorify America, and because they aren't about Americans. We're so self-centered that even movies about Britain need to be about Americans in Britain.


      I have seen my share of British movies and they have the same amount of glorifying that ours do. Just be aware that Hollywood is in America so there tends to be a lot of movies with an American slant. Bollywood movies tend to favor the Indian. Its a 'love of country', country-centric issue.

      I believe the current change to mainstream American culture - I'd say within the last 10 - 20 years for sure - has been a turn for the worse. Our own people can't stand the Hollywood 'elites', the horrendous politicians and - for me - the mockery of freedom.
    68. Re:First frenchman in history by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Alliance with the low countries, maybe?

      Christ, man, we're talking theoreticals about how the French could have resisted the Blitz. Without as line of defense extending Alps to North Sea, it would have been impossible.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    69. Re:First frenchman in history by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      I'm not so certain. The Bush administration uses biblical end-times phrases all the time in public speeches to pander to the Left-Behind-reading fundies.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    70. Re:First frenchman in history by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      Apparently the reason for the stoppage is being hidden from you because the rest of the world knows why. That fat-assed excuse for a human Goering said, as he would also say a year later, that his air force could take care of the British forces on the beaches.

      Since Goering and Hitler were close buds, Hitler wanted to give some of the glory for destroying the British to Goering, to show how powerful the German luftwaffe was. As we now know, despite both the quantitative and qualitative advantage of the German air force at that time, air power alone, at that time in history, did not have the capability to destroy such a large force.

      There are others who say that Guederian ordered the halt due to the lack of supporting infantry and the need for replenishment of the Panzers and that Hitler simply ok'd the order.

      Take your pick. Either way, the halt was a military blunder of the highest order.

      While it is true you, as a German, will forever bear the curse of Hitler upon your country, there are those who fought that you should look towards as true soldiers and examples of what can be done. Specifically, Erwin Rommel.

      I have a book called 'Knights Cross' which is about Rommel. Try to find a copy and read it. While the book is written about him, it contains many of his own words and thoughts on his life. The book describes Rommel's opinion of the halt. He and his men could see the British on the beaches. All they needed was the order to advance and those troops would have been prisoners.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    71. Re:First frenchman in history by jd · · Score: 1
      Purely for the information of anyone who cares, a great uncle of mine was captured by the Germans at Dunkirk. No, he wasn't one of those running - he was one of those ordered to hold off the whole friggin' German army whilst the rest fled. Later on, after escaping from a POW camp, he was aided by one of the French underground movements dedicated to helping escapees reach Gibraltar and Britain. Amazingly, I talked at some length with a member of the group involved in my great uncle's escape - amazingly because few enough survived the war (there were several members who were paid Gestapo informers) and of those far fewer survive into the present day, but also amazingly because just a week or so before my great uncle reached the French border, much of the line had been shut down and many members killed or arrested. That the remainder were stubborn enough to help when under such extreme danger and stress - that shows the meaning of not giving up.

      So for those French on Slashdot, I certainly salute your stubbornness and determination.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    72. Re:First frenchman in history by yoyoofthemilk · · Score: 1

      Damn. You caught me.

    73. Re:First frenchman in history by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      G'day matey,

      Aussie living in France right now. The key is to speak *some* french. If you do live in France that only makes sense. Even the Americans are treated nicely then. One of my friend is an American married to a French lady. He speaks excellent french and is invited to all the parties :-)

    74. Re:First frenchman in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently the reason for the stoppage is being hidden from you because the rest of the world knows why

      Well there are a number of arguments as to why. Without endorsing it, one of them is that Hitler was, even at this late stage, holding out for the idea of an alliance with Britain. The defeat in France would bring an end to Churchill and forces more friendly to the Germans would have some hope of achieving power. If you read Mein Kampf you will see Hitler was a great admirerer of the English, whom he regarded as members of the Teutonic master race. Clearly a massive slaughter of British troops on the beaches of France would have undermined this strategy.

    75. Re:First frenchman in history by Fordiman · · Score: 1

      Nah, I get what you're saying. Bush is a dick, and so are the assholes who call the French 'surrender monkies' and similar things as part of an argument. It's just the below I take offense to:

      "No, it's the taunting attitude of americans that really bugs me."

      That attitude is shared by most of our peculiar breed of ape. No, seriously; you can see it on BBC World news and other international news channels (just turn on the english subtitles). Essentially, making fun of someone you disagree with has somehow become an accepted and integral part of political discourse. I suppose it counts as an easy way to distill a concept into an easily digestible quip.

      Not saying that you should make policy on it, but to take it for what it is: an oversimplified analysis of incomplete information, twisted into humor for the purpose of obtaining a reaction.

      --
      110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
    76. Re:First frenchman in history by tgrigsby · · Score: 1

      Wait a minute -- I got trolled too? Okay, now you can all bite me....

      --
      *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
    77. Re:First frenchman in history by laserbeak43 · · Score: 1

      i think some americans need to live in the countries that americans are usualy fighting with. and see how shitty a country america is from their eyes. wasnt this fucking thread about linux???

    78. Re:First frenchman in history by salimma · · Score: 1

      the reasons they are beyond the pale to Americans are because they don't glorify America, and because they aren't about Americans

      Hmm, very good point. I recall some people being quite upset when U-571 came out, because the espionage coup of retrieving an Enigma machine suddenly became an American story. In real life, Polish cryptoanalysts got the machine analyzed back in 1939, before USA even joined the war
      --
      Michel
      Fedora Project Contribut
    79. Re:First frenchman in history by raddan · · Score: 1

      Not that the Brits haven't taken credit for work that was mostly done by the Polish or anything.

  38. How many webcams is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I counted 3 different permutations of the numbers [2,3,5] used in the article. Does anyone know which it is? An astounding feat, no matter which it is, of course.

    "One man writes Linux drivers for 352 webcams"

    "A LONE HOBBYIST programmer sitting at his home in France is responsible for adding 352 USB webcams to the list of those supported by Linux."

    "All 235 low-cost webcams supported in Linux thanks to... this man"

    "The surprise was more shocking when I realized that drivers for 235 webcams -at the time of this writing- are the work of a single unknown hero who works from his home in France"

    "So how did the ice ball grow to reach today's 253+ webcams supported with several different chipsets?"

    1. Re:How many webcams is it? by badc0ffee · · Score: 1

      Missing 532 and 523. Maybe that is the real number?

      --
      1011 1010 1101 1100 0000 1111 1111 1110 1110
    2. Re:How many webcams is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Goddamn you, Illuminati!

  39. I, for one, : +2, Patriotic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny


    Welcome our French Linux contributors.

    I also want to extend my appreciation to France for helping to spread democracy and freedom to the former United States of America,
    now called, the United Gulags of America thanks to the Chairman, The Military-Industrial-CONGRESSIONAL Complex.

    Patriotically as always,
    Kilgore Trout, C.E.O.

  40. Motivation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    OK, so this gentleman didn't get money for his efforts. He wasn't hired by some major Linux distributer to write the drivers. I think he did it simply because a lot of supported webcams increased the likelihood that he could see someone naked and performing in front of a webcam.

  41. Incorrect title by DaleGlass · · Score: 1, Redundant

    This guy wrote drivers that support 253 webcams, not 253 drivers.

    Linux isn't Windows. In Windows, a Creative webcam would appear in the device manager as a "Creative Webcam". In Linux, a driver supports the chip the camera uses, not the specific camera itself. Logitech or Creative usually won't be making the whole camera from scratch. Instead, they purchase the electronics from some chinese company, then build their own body around it, and write some software to support it.

    In the screenshots it can be easily seen that "Trust", "Canon" and "Logitech" webcams are all supported by the same driver.

  42. who writes this bs? by nanosquid · · Score: 0, Troll

    The Open Source OS world may still be a bit of a mess when competing with the ease of Windows,

    You must be kidding. The only thing that's "easier" about Windows is the fact that it's preinstalled; other than that, it's the most messy and tedious desktop OS among the four major ones (Windows, Mac, Linux/Gnome, and Linux/KDE).

  43. Both numbers are right by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 0, Redundant

    He'd written 253 drivers when the article was started and wrote the other 99 drivers while the article was being written.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  44. I have the vimicro camera by phorm · · Score: 1

    It actually has quite nice quality/features for a cheap camera: metal body, LED's that turn on in low-light, and the picture quality is actually quite nice. I recently started using it again and just went through the process of digging up drivers that would compile against my newer kernel.

    One point of confusion is between the article's GSPCA/spca50x drivers, and the SPCA50X drivers on SF.net

    The latter I had run into first, but it won't compile against my newer 2.6 kernel. Luckily, I was able to find the mxhaard drivers, which worked nicely, and get the thing going after a little while.

    All said, big Kudos to Michel for gifting us all with well-working cheap webcams!

  45. Kudos to writer - more importantly, everyone else by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    First of all I want to say kudos to this driver developer. While the article is in fact wrong (he did not write 352 drivers, he wrote 8 those 8 drivers just support 352 known cameras), 8 device drivers is still a large accomplishment, and thanks to him for sure. I am certain this was very hard and difficult work.

    However -this guy is not alone, and no this is not really an isolated occurrence (it is not "news"). Nearly every device driver IN LINUX has been written by people like this - people who are unpaid and just want their stuff to work.

    The RedHats and the IBMs of the world finance more of the back-end kernel architecture development and finance support for their own hardware (IBM) and features (Intel). The vast majority of drivers for consumer-level devices are unfunded. They are developed by hobbiests who just want to make things work and then share their work with everyone else.

    Much thanks and praise should go to all of these tireless kung-fu wizards who are overlooked every day. Without them Linux would not be where it is today - and in fact I would not be working in the job I am.

    Thanks to ALL kernel developers!

  46. I'm honestly amazed nobody else did it yet. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    I mean, webcam, geeks, lack of a girlfriend... I would've said this has to come naturally. Akin to "If you build it, they will come".

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:I'm honestly amazed nobody else did it yet. by Vexorian · · Score: 1

      If you get to read the article: "I am now near 60 years old" , "webcams for my daughters " .

      --

      Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
    2. Re:I'm honestly amazed nobody else did it yet. by tygt · · Score: 1
      Speaking of webcams, I think that there's more to parent's quote:

      "If you build it, they will come"
      than may've been intended......
  47. Re:A new low in editorial standards - not just on by camperdave · · Score: 1

    There are two models: The 352 webcam, and the 253 webcam. He wrote drivers for them both.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  48. And whatever you do, by pavon · · Score: 1

    Don't chat them up over a webcam.
    Especially if you are running linux :)

  49. It's really one generic camera driver by Animats · · Score: 1

    Those things all understand more or less the same command set. There's a "USB Video Device Class Specification". The current revision is 1.1. This Linux driver effort isn't some huge collection of drivers, which would be silly and a maintenance headache. It's a generic driver.

    A few years back, I wrote a generic Firewire camera driver for QNX. It's really not that hard. These things self-identify when they hot-plug, and you can read their configuration and capabilities over the bus interface. The USB camera spec, unlike the FireWire camera spec, has some annoying Microsoft-specific stuff in it, but it's not all that pervasive.

  50. Yes, a machine. by Palmyst · · Score: 5, Funny

    What we need, obviously, is a Beowulf cluster of French Physicists.

    1. Re:Yes, a machine. by jcgf · · Score: 1

      That's physician not physicist.

    2. Re:Yes, a machine. by Palmyst · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's physician not physicist. Even better, a Beowulf cluster where the nodes can heal themselves.
    3. Re:Yes, a machine. by bursch-X · · Score: 1

      We need a Beowulf cluster of Webcams, and maybe with the right angles set up we can not only shoot 3D photos but even 4 or 5D!!!

      --
      There are two rules for success:
      1. Never tell everything you know.
    4. Re:Yes, a machine. by davidsyes · · Score: 2, Funny

      Would a werewolf cluster work in the interim?

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    5. Re:Yes, a machine. by kenodi · · Score: 1

      I do belive he is a physicist and not a physician. In French, physicist is "physicien", I think. Because English is not his first languange, he mixed things up a little :) I might be wrong. extra info from free.fr: "Docteur en Electronique Université Pierre et Marie Curie, Michel Xhaard"

    6. Re:Yes, a machine. by xappax · · Score: 5, Funny

      Would a werewolf cluster work in the interim?

      No way! The last thing we need is an American werewolf cluster in Paris.

    7. Re:Yes, a machine. by rhizome · · Score: 1

      Physicist, heal thyself!

      --
      When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
    8. Re:Yes, a machine. by baadger · · Score: 1

      ...That's physician not physicist

    9. Re:Yes, a machine. by jd · · Score: 1

      If it keeps Ms. Hilton busy and out of the news, I can't see why it would be so bad.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    10. Re:Yes, a machine. by Coeurderoy · · Score: 1

      Actually with a cluster of Webcam you can do some quite cool stuff, like a high resolution telescope for
      (of course you also need a cluster of computer to do all the computation magic around interpolating all the images to transform X mega pixel cameras into one X' (smaller than X but large enough) mega pixel camera.

      As an aside note I think that it is interesting that any news about a french anything immediatly covers France/US instead of whatever topic was at hand...

      And finally to go back to the topic
      what is still needed is:
          How to do auto natting magic with your webcam when your kid is using Linux but unfortunatelly HAS to go chat with loosing user of the MSN message logging system.

  51. From an Avid Windows User/Fan/Administrator by PixieDust · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Now, that said, I have to say this makes Linux far more attractive to me. That is an absurd amount of work for one person to do, and given that the hard work is done, I'm (hoping) sure that others will pick it up, and keep it going, tweaking, adding functionality. That is the beauty of Open Source.

    I've long said usability is what has kept Linux from becoming a mainstream desktop (read: PC) OS. People like me (and I'm actually a Server Admin, mostly Windows servers, though I'm responsible for helping to maintain some Unix servers as well) who aren't n00bs by any means, but still find Linux to be fairly daunting in some respects (though it has made impressive strides over the last few years, Ubuntu, Slackware, and Suse spring immediately to mind, though my own preferred flavor is Gentoo). Why spend an enormous amount of time, and effort, and still have problems, when I could just install Windows, and go? This is a giant (imho) leap forward for Linux. Little things like this that seem arbitrary, or perhaps even superfulous, are EXACTLY the kind of efforts that the world of Linux needs.

    Coming from a "die-hard" MS fan, I hope this stands out to someone. I've nothing against *nix, in fact I love my Unix servers, but as an everyday use OS, it leaves much to be desired. Now, it leaves one less thing. Die hard webcam driver making guru, I salute you.

    1. Re:From an Avid Windows User/Fan/Administrator by gujo-odori · · Score: 1

      OK, it stands out to me.

      I converted from Windows (diehard) to Linux diehard in the late nineties and have used it as my exclusive home desktop OS ever since and usually mw work desktop OS. The exceptions to that are the period of time when I worked for Microsoft (and even then, I used it a lot), and now, where my work machine is a Mac (could use Linux if I wanted too, but the MacBook Pro was just too nice to pass up; but I do have Kubuntu in Parallels).

      I know Windows pretty well (even had Windows 286 back in the day; what a POS. But I digress), Linux, BSD, Mac a bit of Solaris and Irix. I've used a lot of stuff. My rankings of usability would be 1) Mac OS X 2) Linux + KDE (esp. Kubuntu) 3) Linux + Gnome (esp. Ubuntu) 4) Windows XP.

      Specific areas where I consider KDE and Gnome to be better than Windows are the install - OK, that's not a KDE or Gnome thing per se, but installing (K)Ubuntu and several other popular distros is easier than installing XP and way easier than doing an upgrade install of XP from Win2K. The fact that Windows has an application and settings transfer wizard for that is a sign of what a PITA it is (and it doesn't even find all your stuff; Yahoo Messenger archives, for example) to upgrade Windows.

      Software installation is another. This might cause you to do a double-take at first, but it's true. Just fire up Synaptic (or Adept, in Kubuntu), type in a search term, it finds packages that match by name or description, you mark them for install, click Apply, and there you go. This is an area where I find the Linux approach to be even better than Mac (not to disparage Mac; the Apple approach is also very good and I love my Mac).

      Out of the box driver support (for most stuff) is another. A modern Linux distro supports far more hardware out of the box than XP does. The only fly in the ointment here is that if it's not supported out of the box, it may not be supported at all, or if it is, you may have to either compile a driver or do a jig and dance beyond the ability (or desire) of most beginners to get a binary driver working, so this area is not perfect. Nevertheless, for most things, a Linux distro has much better driver support than out of the box XP.

      Foreign filesystems. XP can only read two filesystems: NTFS and FAT. Linux can read and write NTFS, FAT, and most other filesystems. This is a non-issue for most people, maybe, but it's something I've used a lot.

      Completeness. After you install XP (or after you take your Mac out of the box) you still have to acquire and install a bunch of extra software to do much. Word processing, spreadsheet, etc. With a typical Linux distro, that stuff is there and waiting for you when the install is done. If it's not, just fire up Synaptic and it's a few clicks away. If there's a usability issue with Linux and software, it's that there is so much available that it can be hard to know which one to pick. OTOH, because it's all at your fingertips and free, it's not hard to try a few things and see what works best for you.

      Virtual desktops. Even the best virtual desktop solutions for Windows pale in comparison to the native ones in KDE, Gnome, and most other X environments, and all of them have to be downloaded and installed.

      System updates: the only update that requires a reboot in Linux is a kernel replacement, and even then, it can be done at your leisure. Windows (and OS X as well, for some stupid reason) requires a reboot for fairly trivial updates that most certainly should not require a reboot. This is actually my number one gripe about OS X, and a big one with Windows, too.

      Countercases: In my experience, online documentation still tends to be better in Windows, but the gap is no longer large. Apple blows away everyone on this point. Games. If games are your main reason for having a PC, you probably should have XP. Using on a Windows network. Using Samba is often more work than using Windows on a Windows network, although it's not unreasonable. Of course, the answer to this is to replace all

    2. Re:From an Avid Windows User/Fan/Administrator by PixieDust · · Score: 1
      Wow, a very well thought out response. Please allow me to respond in kind.

      As for your rankings of usability, I've not had enough exposure to Macs to really comment one way or the other. I had to use iMacs exclusively as a Sr in High School, and I hated every moment of it. As for your actual ranking, I tend to go from the perspective of the average user. 10 random users, and 10 random hardware configurations. People who've had little, or no exposure to the world of Windows or Linux. Windows XP, vs we'll say Ubuntu, or Kubuntu. My money is on XP. Anymore it's just about idiot proof, and will at least get through the initial setup (most of the time) and have most things working (newer hardware would, however, undoubtedly be a pain). That's one area where Ubuntu has a SLGIHT edge (if it's not taken back by compatability issues), because it's young, it's fresh, and it's hip. Whereas Windows XP is... well, old and archaic by software standards.

      Still though, I've seen a lot of users barely able to turn a PC on make it through an XP install, and I've seen a lot of decent users get clobbered even by Ubuntu (Why is this at my email?! I just want into my system! - That is your system, it's called a command prompt. Your Window Manager crashed, that thing that makes all the pretty, and easy to use stuff, and put you back at the command prompt. - No, it's my email, it even says user@machinename - That's YOU, at YOUR computer. - But I'm not IN my computer.). When I talk usability, those are the people I'm talking about. Me? I can get Ubuntu up and running in a heartbeat, and get most stuff that doesn't work out of the box working with a bit of effort, but it's such a pain to get a lot of things going. Wireless is one example. I've run into a few chipsets that were pretty interesting to get running too. When your southbridge doesn't want to cooperate, it's tough. Windows tends not to have those problems. Worst case, you go find a driver, and install it. Cant always do that with Linux. Sometimes there is a driver that works 'out of the box' (a binary), other times you have to do some arcane junk to get it working. The average user can't do that. You and I maybe, but not billy bob joe sally q public.

      I will happily concede the point that some software stuff is easier to take care of on Linux than on Windows, because it's free, and as you pointed out, it's all (or at least the majority of what an average user would want to look for) in one place. Mad props on Amorak btw, i LOVE that program. I'm with you there, hands down the BEST Media organizer/music player ever written. I personally use mplayer for the majority of my movie playback on Windows. ^_^ But I digress (hey! You can't steal my line!).

      As for out of the box driver support, I touched on this a moment ago, but I'm trying to go down your list. 5 year old OS, vs 6mo old OS. The 6mo old OS BETTER have better driver support, or it fails. (Insert Vista jabs here). Actually Vista's been pretty good to me thus far, but I've heard plenty of horror stories.

      Foreign file-systems, again, average user. What need is there for this? As for the power user, I frequently stream media to my XBox 360 from my desktop, and sometimes from my laptop. Desktop runs XP Pro, laptop runs Vista Ultimate. It's easy, non-frustrating, and simple. I get to just turn it on, maybe spend a few minutes getting it setup, and spend the rest of the time enjoying it. Not as easy to do with Linux. Not saying it can't be done, in fact i know it can, it's just a pain in the ass.

      I personally am a bigger fan of Gnome than I am KDE. The last time I used KDE it seemed rather clunky and primitive. I know you said the same of Windows XP, but personally I'm not a big fan of XP's GUI "Luna Shell". I do, however, find a matter of appreciation for Gnome. It's practical, I just wish it were prettier, like KDE. I do think that KDE is probably the closest to being on par with XP as far as ease of use goes in the UI category. As for who the winner would be, lemme fi

    3. Re:From an Avid Windows User/Fan/Administrator by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Your Window Manager crashed, that thing that makes all the pretty, and easy to use stuff, and put you back at the command prompt...

      No, that's what you tell my college roommate, who wants to learn the system to where he doesn't have to call me to learn to do stuff on his shiny new Kubuntu laptop.

      To the newbie, you say, "That's not your email, and I am the tech, so you will believe me because I say so." And if they continue to argue, you walk out the door -- ignorance I can deal with, arrogant ignorance I have no patience for.

      That settled, you then say, "The simplest way to fix this is to hit ctrl+alt+del." Which, as you should know, should cause a shutdown/reboot. Since the window manager crashing is probably an isolated incident, we can probably assume that after the reboot, the window manager will come up -- and it's easier than talking them through logging in and restarting xdm (or is it gdm, or kdm, or...?)

      But seriously, X crashing entirely on newbie-class hardware? Should NOT happen, these days. If it does, you have a bigger problem on your hands -- somewhat akin to Windows bluescreen+reeboot in a loop, something which should clue the newbie in to the fact that this computer is severely b0rked, and they should turn it over to their techie friends and pray.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    4. Re:From an Avid Windows User/Fan/Administrator by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      aren't n00bs by any means, but still find Linux to be fairly daunting in some respects.....my own preferred flavor is Gentoo

      If you find it daunting, it's not Linux, it's Gentoo. I loved Gentoo for a long time, but I got sick of fixing obscure compile-time errors, and am now happy on a customized Kubuntu. I always have the option of compiling from scratch, but it's no longer required, which eliminates a good 80% of my Linux problems right there.

      And by the way, this is not new. This driver, maybe -- and I do not mean to diminish this man's accomplishment, cheers all around. But the point is, Linux lives and breathes guys and efforts like this. My experience has been, on Windows, as time goes by, things pop in and out of working the way I want, and it's hard to tell if it's getting better or worse, especially with Vista. On Linux, as time goes by, things that I took for granted as being hard just suddenly click -- I'd assumed wireless would require editing config files and gaining a deep understanding of Ubuntu's /etc/networking directory, particularly what magic to put in "interfaces" and what additional stuff to install. Now, there's a system-tray app on Kubuntu that behaves almost exactly the way the wireless menu did on OS X.

      In other words, Windows is up and down, OS X is generally easier and easier (though it may be harder if you don't want to do things Apple's way), and Linux just gets better in every way, all the time. Everyone's got their own threshold of usability, but I'd say, start using it as soon as your own threshold is reached -- that way, anything that still annoys you may be fixed with a free update. Microsoft may or may not fix my Windows annoyances, but I imagine it will be neither free nor automatic.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    5. Re:From an Avid Windows User/Fan/Administrator by PixieDust · · Score: 1
      Well the rest of that story is the user was "tired of Windows giving her viruses and popups, and spyware. And her friend said she should isntall Ubuntu, and she really didn't want to go dig out her Windows disk, and if I could just tell her how to get into her system that'd be great." She had already rebooted several times. What I think happened (and i never saw the system so I can't tell you for sure) is that the newbie friendly installer didn't get her display adapter right, and wasn't using a VESA driver, and as soon as she logged in, X dumped her on her ass. I told her I could fix it, to which she immediately demanded I walk her through it over the phone, and became very irate when I told her I couldn't do that, because I'm not the best in the world with Linux, and I've got to hunt down all the logs that would be of use to me, find out exactly what was going on, then start to get to work on a fix. She said I should be able to tell her how to do it herself, and I just kind of laughed and said "Ma'am, please, get your Windows install disk, and put Windows back on here. Linux is NOT for you. If you want to dive in and learn, be my guest, otherwise without you bringing in the computer, there's nothing I can do for you."

      She didn't want to pay me for my time to fix it, and after 45 minutes on the phone trying to explain to her she WAS logged on, she WAS in her system, and that she was probably better off in Windows, I'd had enough.

    6. Re:From an Avid Windows User/Fan/Administrator by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      If she was online, and if I was sufficiently motivated, I'd setup ssh. In fact, I just did this for a friend, tried to fix his sound problems. (Didn't get anywhere until he actually rebooted; "Hibernate" had killed sound for exactly one program, somehow.)

      However, it all depends how much I'm being paid. Eventually, I break out the jargon/techie trump card. That is, I deliberately go for the most jargon-y way to explain something: "Ma'am, X should not have crashed, and we'll have to sort through some 20 kilobytes of logs to find out what happened, or if you even have X installed in the first place. Maybe you're just missing an init script..." By now, I'm ready to play the trump card: "It will take several hours, something like 8 or 10 hours, to fix this over the phone, and maybe 10 minutes if you bring it in."

      Or, for the "I AM logged in" bit, it could go like this: "Ma'am, do you know what a command prompt is? Do you know what SMTP is?" After enough 'no's, you're ready: "I probably know more about Linux and email than you ever will, so please just take my word for it. You are not in your email, you are logged into your system on a commandline. Now, I need you to do exactly as I say..."

      As for not wanting to pay you, the simplest way to deal with that is, somewhere in the first 10 minutes, figure that it will take awhile to solve, and explain that you'll be charging her, one way or the other, and it will take you much less time if she can bring it in.

      I'm also not entirely sure that she'd be better off on Windows, that depends entirely on the install disc she had. But if she's as stubbornly ignorant with Windows as you're saying she was with Linux, it will probably only be better for her if she gets lucky -- I can understand you not wanting to deal with her anymore, just saying I'm not sure you did her a favor. Best option would be for someone nearby to come along and fix it for her, especially considering she should never have to reinstall. Second best option: Tell her to get a Mac.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    7. Re:From an Avid Windows User/Fan/Administrator by PixieDust · · Score: 1
      Hehe, I did actually tell her that either her friend who recommended she install it should come get it up and running for her, and show her how to use it, or she should go back to Windows and be done with it. I'm all for people being adventurous, but she was like "OMGz need this like, yesterday!".

      And yea, I did play the techie trump card a few times, and also explained to her exactly what that command prompt was. She finally shut up when i put her on google's homepage via lynx LOL.

      THen she asked me where she could download Windows and I just shook my head and told her Microsoft.com =D

      She didn't think that was very funny.

    8. Re:From an Avid Windows User/Fan/Administrator by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      And yea, I did play the techie trump card a few times

      More than once in the same conversation, and you're not doing it right. I can write you a script, if you like :P

      I think you actually can download Windows from Microsoft now, anyway, or at least, Vista enhancements.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  52. Plug him into the National Grid by turgid · · Score: 1

    The Energy Crisis is solved!

  53. Not troll. Mod up. by irote · · Score: 1

    Have no mod points, but this is not -1 Troll. The previous post is funny. Let's not be unfair, shall we?

  54. That's because he doesn't any more by cicho · · Score: 3, Funny

    Saddam is no longer in a position to write drivers. That's why Vista users are SOL.

    --
    "Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
  55. "[W]hat no one else can do. . ."? by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 1

    ...or "what no one else wants to do"?

    --
    People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
  56. Serial driver? by youthoftoday · · Score: 1

    For cameras using RS-232? I thought this was for USB cameras?

    --
    -1 not first post
  57. Hmmm: suppose his nickname... by Pyrroc · · Score: 1

    Suppose his nickname when using the webcam is mx_HAARD ?

    --
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
  58. Physicist, not physician by thib_gc · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article and the summary say that this guy is a physician, but he isn't. He's a physicist. The French word for physicist is physicien. Apparently someone got their words mixed up (but that's okay because they also appear to have their digits mixed up anyway).

    1. Re:Physicist, not physician by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Incidentally, he says he works with Doppler and ultrasound imaging, both of which are forms of medical imaging. Then again, the description brings to mind a medical physicist rather than a physician.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  59. That must be a helluva itch... by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 1

    ...that guy is scratching!

  60. Stupid article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like this article was written by a drunk teenager. No flow to the story. Michel isn't asked any decent questions. Can anyone else do some justice to the amount of work he's contributed to the linux community?

  61. In Soviet Russia.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    ..cameras watch programmers.

  62. 352? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well now I can see why he hasn't had time to reply to my emails about my own webcam (Sonix 0c45:613e) that doesn't yet work with the sn9c120 driver or spcaxxx.

  63. It's called UVC by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_video_device_clas s

    But since the cameras are essentially fixed-focus NTSC CCDs with framegrabbers, USB bridge chips of the week and ad-hoc Atmel microcontrollers with random firmware tying it all together... it's no wonder the Chinese OEMs just roll their own protocol and driver.

    Implement a published spec! That'd take testing beyond plugging it into the engineer's laptop to see if it works.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  64. Ironically, taking matters into my own hands ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... means I never get any coding done :(

  65. Errr... by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the vast majority of USB video cameras are not UVC compliant. Even the expensive Philips chipset-derived models are in their own world.

    UVC compliance is very recent and spotty.

    There's 20-odd V4L/V4L2 drivers for linux, of which more than half are just pluggable webcam drivers (mostly USB, and the lone firewire generic)

    There's some USB streaming chipset support for those external S-Video adapters and DVR devices, and the rest are PCI attached devices and the venerable BT848 driver.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  66. good catch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pretty good distinction there

  67. Looking at it backwards by The+Monster · · Score: 1

    So a bad driver caused him to give up on W2K, then he proceeds to spend endless hours of creating drivers for those crappy webcams?

    Wouldn't it be better that an ill-supported webcam gets abandoned by the consumers, thus giving the market better-supported webcams as manufacturers are forced to lift up their games?

    Or, wouldn't it be even better if hundreds of low-price webcams have good drivers to run under Linux, and an ill-supported OS (W2K) gets abandoned in its favor?

    He knew the W2K driver was buggy, but didn't have a way to fix it, short of rewriting it from scratch, in which case why not write it for Linux?

    --

    [100% ISO 646 Compliant]
    SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.

  68. Logitech should hire that guy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...since those pricks can't be bothered to put out updated drivers for any of their cams older than ~6 months. I got stuck with a couple of them during the moves from 98SE to 2000 to XP and OS 9 to OS X. Never buying another camera from those fuckers again.

    Connectix, you are still missed.

  69. The French help America once again! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    And again France helps America win it's freedom!!!

    1. Re:The French help America once again! by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      Stay tuned for the bloody French meltdown to follow.
      Shoulda listened to Turgot

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    2. Re:The French help America once again! by howlingmadhowie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it is an interesting point, and one worth repeating, that the french, like people who live at any geographic location, consist of individuals. in the modern age, individuals often get together to from a group with some of their time.

      a valid question would be, which group membership is more important to this guy: his membership in the foss community or his french passport?

    3. Re:The French help America once again! by VON-MAN · · Score: 1

      Are you drunk?

    4. Re:The French help America once again! by Cantus · · Score: 4, Informative
      It's sad really how nobody remembers that the French were decisive in getting Americans gain their independence. From Wikipedia:

      The colonists' victory at Saratoga led the French into an open alliance with the United States. In 1781, a combined American and French Army, acting with the support of a French fleet, captured a large British army, led by General Charles Cornwallis, at Yorktown, Virginia. The surrender of General Cornwallis ended serious British efforts to find a military solution to their American problem.
    5. Re:The French help America once again! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Americans are very strange. They think they're not British, yet retain the traditional British antipathy toward the French. Of course, Britain and France have been rivals for centuries, but France and America have never been, so why do Americans spend so much time abusing the frogs? I suppose it's the same national schizophrenia that makes Americans identify with the Rebelk Alliance in Star Wars rather than the Empire, which depicts them far more accurately. Americans charaterise the frogs as militarily incompetent or cowardly, totally ignoring Napoleon's extraordinary military achievements. Weird.

      I'm English, of course, so I can say with easy conviction that I love France and hate the French. Especially my ex-girlfriend.

    6. Re:The French help America once again! by rec9140 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Why the hate you ask? . . . .

      Simple ask the frech:

      1) who will sell mirages to any sand dictator that comes along

      2) harbor some of the most radical people on this planet starting with kommeni

      3) like them and their quefranbec relations have an ENTIRE GOVERNMENT AGENCY on the preservation of french.... in others words to keep OUT AMERICAN INFLUENCES on culture and lanquage

      4) lack of support of its allies, namely the US, since WWII

      Plain and simple the snobbery starts in france so I am more than glad to just ignore the place entirely. Not some place I plan on visiting on any trip to Europe..I'd go to downtown Beirut before any place in france

      --
      1311393600 - Back to Black
    7. Re:The French help America once again! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1) who will sell mirages to any sand dictator that comes along

      This is a pretty hysterical claim considering the scum that the Americans have armed over the last five decades. Saddam, anyone? The fucking TALEBAN?

      2) harbor some of the most radical people on this planet starting with kommeni

      YOU created the disaster in Iran with your idiotic Shah - if you want to go looking for despots and lunatics in exile, London and New York harbour as many if not more than Paris.

      3) like them and their quefranbec relations have an ENTIRE GOVERNMENT AGENCY on the preservation of french.... in others words to keep OUT AMERICAN INFLUENCES on culture and lanquage

      Who will look after the French language and culture if not the French? Do ordinary Americans actually WANT corporate 'culture' - whether from the US or anywhere else - to flood the planet?

      4) lack of support of its allies, namely the US, since WWII

      What have you done that merited support and was not supported by the French? DOn't forget how the US didn't support (officially) the British in the Falklands, and where has British support of the calamity in Itaq gotten us? Blind support is even worse than blind opposition.

      dissent

    8. Re:The French help America once again! by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      Americans charaterise the frogs as militarily incompetent or cowardly, totally ignoring Napoleon's extraordinary military achievements.
      To be fair to Americans, Jefferson won 828,000 square miles of land from Napoleon without so much as firing a shot. We stopped Emperial France without much effort.
      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    9. Re:The French help America once again! by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      Um, that's some revisionism there. The US may not exactly have been allied with Napoleon, but it was at war with its enemy, England. Louisiana was purchased through negotiation, not by threat or conquest.

      Napoleon spoke of his dream as the creation of a United States of Europe.

    10. Re:The French help America once again! by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      Napoleon also spoke of his dream of adding all of North American (including the United States) to his French empire. Part of the reason he sold Louisiana to the US was Jefferson's bluff about allying with the British against France if he wouldn't give up New Orleans.

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    11. Re:The French help America once again! by HardCase · · Score: 1

      It's sad really how nobody remembers that the French were decisive in getting Americans gain their independence.

      That's because everybody who was there is dead.

    12. Re:The French help America once again! by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      Yes, I am thankful for the help the French lent the colonists during the revolution, but the "Americans" still had to prove they could win a few battles of their own first

      Just think how much better WWII would've been had France won a few battles at the beginning... ;).

      *ducks*

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    13. Re:The French help America once again! by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Rather ask how WWII might have gone if France actualy fought Germany when they declared war on them in the first place. Most of the Wehrmacht was tied down in the Polish campaign. The French waited. For what?

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    14. Re:The French help America once again! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really really doubt Napoleon was concerned about some colonists slowing him down. He took over most of Europe for peets sake. He was however concerned about the one military power that was strong enough to face him - England. Some of the history challenged may make mention that we beat England proving we were better than them but in reality we beat them because they weren't interested enough in us to front a real army and they were busy with the only power in Europe that was a threat to them - France. Had England not been at constant war with France they would have creamed us. Had Napoleon not been trying to raise money to fight England the U.S. would still be tiny if it existed at all. We came to be out of timing.

    15. Re:The French help America once again! by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      I really really doubt Napoleon was concerned about some colonists slowing him down. He took over most of Europe for peets sake.
      He also lost Haiti and his brother to a slave rebellion. I think he understood the situation better than you.
      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    16. Re:The French help America once again! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's sad really how nobody remembers that the French were decisive in getting Americans gain their independence."

      Umm, bullshit, and you're wrong.

      It's sad that people make grand, sweeping stupid claims. Sadder still that they think ships travel on land.

      The French were not decisive. Without the Americans route on land, that naval battle would have meant squat. They were PART of the decisive battle, which was the sea attack and defeat against Gates naval fleet which prevented escape. The American colonists were the ones who beat the hell out of them on land. Who routed them. Into a corner. Made them try to flee on their ships. And the French actually happened to a) finally get around to helping in the revolution and b) happened to finally win a naval battle.

      Without the French, the Brits would have finally stopped running and embarked on their ships. Even winning that battle, no one knew for sure how decisive that victory was. Even the revolution went on for few more years before battles actually stopped.

      So decisive? Hardly...neither in the battle you mention, nor their trepidation in entering the conflict, or their limitation of understanding clear history even after the advent of the web and internet. Sad that even 230+ years later, there is a total lack of understanding of what the French did; more a laughing matter when a foreigner pretends to know history and cludges it up so much.

      btw, nearly every American elementary or junior high school is taught about the French involvement, whether it be some suburb or inner city school in Chicago or DC, hell even our Hollywood films tend to depict French involvement quite accurately. Whether or not we US folk *care* as much you do about this fact is a different matter entirely. Our interpretation is quite different than yours or the French. We note the prior conflict with the French and Indian War. We note how long it took France to dick around (part of their reputation of indecisiveness that still remains today in some of our opinions). And when they did enter the war, it was really in the nick of time, only after the colonists "proved" themselves aka were winning without your involvement.

      Which is why most Americans who maybe care really know the French attitude was more Johnny Come Lately, or like the ass that comes in late to the project, does a day's minimal work, and then tries to take credit for the whole shebang.

    17. Re:The French help America once again! by mdarksbane · · Score: 1

      Americans still think of themselves as the underdog, because our required history classes pretty much stop in 1865, and don't cover any world history save for how it relates to America (except for that one unit on Hitler, who was apparently evil).

      As for the French... considering that De Gaul pretty much spent his whole political career badmouthing the US after we came in and saved their asses, I'm not sure that you can claim we started it. :)

    18. Re:The French help America once again! by BIGELLOW · · Score: 0

      At the same time, claiming the French aren't incompetent or cowardly based on the achievements of one man 200 years ago is missing the point. Maybe 200 years ago Americans would praise the military prowess of the French, but certainly not today.

      I think the attitude of Americans towards the French has more to do with cultural differences. To most Americans, the behavior of the French (either when someone from France is visiting America, or someone from America is visiting France) is often rude and crude. Certainly, by taking the time to get to know someone who is French, you will see a decent person, even if the mannerisms and cultural views are very different. But, on the surface, when you don't know the person underneath, the perceived person that shows on the outside is often someone who is seen as lacking tact or decency.

      Going back to complaints about military stature, I think it also has to do with the fact that Americans like to find humor in any weakness. I don't think this is a feature that is specific to America, but is shared throughout the world. When America gets a bad President, suddenly the world is looking down on the American Citizens, even though its own citizens aren't happy about the President either. When there are stereotypes that common Americans make fun of (within their own borders,) these become the stereotypes that the rest of the world paint as being "all Americans"... like the redneck stereotype... the John Wayne/Old-West stereotype... the surfer dude stereotype... or Keanu Reeves.

      Again, America is so much of a melting pot of different cultures that it is very easy to poke fun at a collection of them and call it poking fun at "America"... so, I think this manifests itself in Americans finding something equally wrong with other cultures outside of its borders, and focusing on that. Whether it is the military of the French, the weird game shows of Japan, or the citizens of Mexico fleeing their country to enter America, it's all in good fun. Americans take a lot of crap and also dish out a lot to even the field.

  70. This is why I wrote a Wacom driver for Mac OS X by Slur · · Score: 4, Interesting

    (Shameless plug) I had this tablet I'd spent $500 on back when it first came out, and I was going to be damned if I didn't get support for it on my favorite OS. It took something like 3 years to get it into shape, but now I have this project with a life of its own. Most recently I was prompted to add support for TabletPC computers running Mac OS X unsupported. All along the way, I've had people interested in the results, who have helped me to add support for their tablets. The internet has made it possible to collaborate instantly with people you've only just connected with for the first time, and do in a matter of days what might have taken weeks.

    So it doesn't surprise me that this guy's driver works for so many cameras. So many of these hardware devices with different brand names use the same off-the-shelf chip-sets. And serial devices are all very similar in their protocols, so new drivers are easier to make.

    I don't think my driver for their old serial tablets has cost Wacom much in sales, and that was never the intent. Their new USB tablets are thinner and totally hassle-free, which makes them attractive for most people. There have been a few people who told me they had specifically held out on buying a new Wacom USB tablet, and who either had put the old one away or were using it with Mac OS 9. And there were a few people who had bought USB-Serial adapters only to find that no driver existed to make their tablets work. I sympathized with both situations somewhat, and this also spurred me on.

    As an open source developer I have the advantage of total loyalty to my project, and not to any other parasitic motive. So when I get a feature working in my driver or control panel, it remains available. A company may remove features to encourage upgrades, and reducing functionality for non-technical reasons is evil.

    I propose a new holiday: Driver Writers' Day. It could co-incide with the date of the first shipment of Mountain Dew.

    --
    -- thinkyhead software and media
    1. Re:This is why I wrote a Wacom driver for Mac OS X by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Their new USB tablets are thinner and totally hassle-free, which makes them attractive for most people.

      Tell that to a Volito 2/OS X user. Seriously, if it was in any way possible for you to write a Volito 2 driver for OS X that would be extremely welcome - even though there used to be an old driver that sorta kinda worked, every Mac using Tiger (and soon Leopard) has no way of properly using any USB-based Wacom tablet for under 150 bucks. Which sucks when you want to do graphic editing with your Mac and don't have the money to buy anything but Wacom's entry-level offering.

      OTOH, I'd also be happy if you happened to know that I can just use a USB->serial adapter and a serial->USB adapter and your driver...

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  71. Re:In other news... by markov_chain · · Score: 2, Funny

    You don't know that his daughters aren't twins.

    You're probably right, though. With the last name Xhaard, I bet his sex record could make Ron Jeremy envious. Darn Frenchmen!

    --
    Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
  72. Re:Summary Title ~ 257 rows of cameras by nairb774 · · Score: 1

    There are ~257 rows of camera listings on his web page. Hopefully that will clear this up.

  73. Ok, now what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Yes, good, support for simple webcams, which I see my SuSE 10.1 doesn't have, at least, doesn't have based on a normal install. Found the SuSE rpm website for the drivers. Downloaded. Now what?

    rpm -i kernel-module-spca5xx-2.6.16.13-4-default-0.6.00-l otus.i586.rpm
    error: Failed dependencies:
            kernel(mm) = 3d6b445a058e7d3f is needed by spca5xx-20060501-1.i586
    plus a lot more. I'm used to rpm telling me about dependencies where it needs files. I can find rpms
    with dependent files, no problem. How do I find a dependency "3d6b445a058e7d3f"?


  74. to bad it's not in mainline kernel by the+Hewster · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have to applaud this person for the huge work he has done to support all these webcams under Linux. However, from what I could tell from a quick google search, he seems to be one of these developpers who write GPL drivers for Linux (also GPL) but then refuse to have them included in the mainline kernel for some mystical reason.
    This situation really makes me sad because thousands, perhaps millions of people could have their webcam "just work" out of the box, but instead, they have to do all sorts of voodoo magic (look on google, find the package, compile it, patch source etc.). Statistically, a percentage of these people will spend a lot of time getting it to work, some people will fail to make it work and some won't even bother. What a waste.
    The worst part of it is that the driver, being GPL, could be included legally without the autor's consent however, this would risk alienating this valuable developper. Imagine if the people developping drivers for motherboard chipsets had the same attitude and what that would do to the usability of Linux.
    So please, Michel Xhaard, do a huge favor to the whole Free software comunity at little or no cost to yourself and get that driver in mainline.

    1. Re:to bad it's not in mainline kernel by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · · Score: 1

      Oh, and a followup - I agree with you - I'd love to see this in the mainline kernel. I think part of the problem might be that the current driver is written for the deprecated v4l version 1. A v4l2 version has been mentioned as being in development for some time now on the website, but no releases or news that I've heard of yet. Perhaps when the v4l2 version is ready the author might consider having it added to the mainline kernel?

    2. Re:to bad it's not in mainline kernel by Peaker · · Score: 1

      The worst part of it is that the driver, being GPL, could be included legally without the autor's consent however, this would risk alienating this valuable developper.

      You are forgetting the distributions here.
      They can insert whatever patches they want into the kernels they use.

      Their role here, is to integrate GPL software from various vendors. And there are many distributions, I doubt all of them do all the worrying about alienating a kernel developer. Once one distribution gets it to "just work", pressure is put on the rest to do the same.

      I think the "mainline kernel" (as distributed by Linus Torvalds) is less important now, as the main channel of distribution of kernels (and most other packages) are the distributions and not the authors. This is great, as one coordinating entity can make all the required changes and integrations to GPL'd software to make it work together.
    3. Re:to bad it's not in mainline kernel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, it is down to the Kernel team not wanting to have image decompression and conversion code in the kernel

      Cydergoth (The guy who _actually_ wrote the original SPCA driver)

  75. Licence to print money by Qbertino · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a business model waiting to bring in the big bucks. Get some VC, some quality hardware people and have this guy join the team. Make good, true x-plattform cams. Profit.

    A man with an asset like the knowlege he has is a gold mine when treated the right way.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  76. Someone please hire this guy by BalkanBoy · · Score: 1

    He needs money.

    Or not.

    --
    'A lie if repeated often enough, becomes the truth.' - Goebbels
  77. Copy and paste? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I've never written a shell script (unless trifle batch files count...) but isn't that what computers are for?

    for(int i = 0; i < 352; i++){<br>
    cp "driver.txt" "driver_" + i + ".txt"<br>
    }

    Add 6 hours of RTFA and debugging, and it should work...
    What, you say you can copy and paste 352 times in less than 6 hours?
    Well, good for you! Now get coding!
  78. He is a part of the market, and speaking. by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    I get endlessly annoyed at the "let the market speak" proponents who really mean simply "let people like me make the decisions," as though this guy, or Linux users, or the people who don't like the "let the market speak" philosophy... aren't a part of the market too.

    Be self-consistent. If you want to "let the market speak" then you have to countenance the notion that some of that speech may not be pro-market speech. Not all consumers participate in the market purely to make products better and prices cheaper. I'd venture to say that most of them participate in the market to serve their own idiosyncratic desires... which for this person means writing drivers.

    The market is speaking. It's saying that Linux drivers are cooler than better webcams, at least in some cases. So let the market speak.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  79. Not bad! by PPH · · Score: 1

    And all done with a 35 hour work week.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  80. Very cool, but the interview sucked by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

    Seriously, are these questions the best he could come up with? ("Are you aware that your site is not very well indexed?... " "Yes") Instead of hearing hte reporters opinions about how the big corps should take notice of this work, I would be much more interested in hearing how and when he got into programming, does he apply any of this in his work as a radiologist, and so on...

  81. Wow.... by Remi0o · · Score: 1

    Wow. Talk about efficient.

    --
    Analogously, Slashdot could be seen as being a little like a website for other cultural groups using the tag line - "New
  82. Coming soon to a distro near you by dogwelder99 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Anyone else start to hear the movie trailer guy's voice reading the summary?

    In a world of drivers gone mad... one man with drive, tenacity, and no funding does what no one else can do...

  83. FweeBeeESdee by clamothe · · Score: 1

    So... no FreeBSD Support?

    --
    BA
  84. Are any of these usb2? by Sark666 · · Score: 1

    I was going to grab one of the cheaper webcams but thought they'd probably be a problem in linux (as the cheapo's are a problem in windows sometimes as well)

    It's nice that there is a quality rating for each camera

    http://mxhaard.free.fr/spca5xx.html

    Are any of these cameras true usb2 cameras? I'd like to avoid the usb1 slideshow.

  85. Lonely Programmer Writes 352 Webcam Drivers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There, fixed it.

  86. (Before a Debian/[K]Ubuntu user beats me to it...) by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · · Score: 2, Informative
    [...]instead, they have to do all sorts of voodoo magic[...]

    Man, tell me about it. I'm still exhausted from typing "emerge gspcav1"...Glad I'm not using Ubuntu, or I'd have to do about twice as much work! ("gspcav1" being much shorter to type than "gspca-source"...)

    Okay, in fairness, it actually was kind of a pain finding this package in the first place, but other than that, the three different types of webcams I have floating around all DO seem to "just work" with it. And don't let the "2.6.19" thing on the Gentoo package page fool you - it seems to at least compile for 2.6.21.

    Now, does anyone have any good recommendations for webcam capture software? (How the heck do I get mencoder to use the webcam for input, anyway?...)

  87. 352 online girlfriends by SoopahMan · · Score: 2, Funny

    In other news: French physician sets record with 352 online girlfriends. "I just really like a good web strip tease," said the Frenchman.

    Seriously though, bravo to the guy for improving driver support in Linux, it's more or less the one big lacking Linux needs to overcome.

  88. Re:(Before a Debian/[K]Ubuntu user beats me to it. by Sark666 · · Score: 1

    I believe in respecting a developers wishes, but to me, he has told us how he wants his software treated legally by releasing it as gpl. If another gpl project uses his works and stays in compliance, how can he really be disgruntled? Otherwise he should release it with a different license.

  89. Wow! by ickyellf · · Score: 0

    Does he still have any friends? Seriously, this is amazing. This is one of the great feats of geekdom.

    --
    There's no place like ~.
  90. ...actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're gone making tea, and your system has a BSOD and reboots, by default it wrote the details to the system log. Look in the Event Viewer.

  91. Physicien == Physicist != Physician by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Michel Xhaard is not a physician. He is a physicist.

    The confusion comes from the French word for physicist, which is "physicien".

    Michel probably told the Inquirer (mistakenly) that he was a "physician",
    by which he meant "physicist".

      - Anonycous Moward

  92. Why 1 guy can do this by caywen · · Score: 1

    In general, there is always a huge difference between people who don't get it and those that do. Well, there's just as big a gap between people who get it and people who own it. The latter not only get it, they get everything about it and what seems complex to the former is actually quite trivial to the latter. It's like the difference between someone who studied Klingon for 5 years, and the person who pumps out 300 page Klingon novels every 3 months. Most of us are like the latter (or, worse if you're me) but every now and then, you get that 1% of 1% of people that know how to take it to the next level. Like Star Wars Kid. Man, that was in a class all by itself.

  93. ...if you want to donate to a French hacker... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm quite thankful to Mr. Xhaard for his contributions, but how's about throwing some scratch to the man who single handedly wrote QEMU (One of the best VirtualPC-alike packages for multiple platforms, and whose code is helping the Xen virtualization project) , KQEMU (The fast VMWare-like add-on for QEMU), FFMPEG (The FLOSS project whose codec is helping Xine, you're probably using to view streaming video if you're not on Mac/Windows codecs), TCC (a tiny standalone C compiler, which in one demo was used to compile Linux from source and boot in ) ?

    The guy's name is Fabrice Bellard, his site is also on free.fr , http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/

    1. Re:...if you want to donate to a French hacker... by quag7 · · Score: 1

      Seconded. I can keep my (Gentoo) working OS austere and conservative with what I install on it. Meanwhile, I have Ubuntu running in QEMU, which I treat like a dirty slut, installing anything I want promiscuously onto it, if I want to experiment with different WMs or dodgy software (Side unrelated note: Was pretty impressed by Ubuntu, having only installed it for the first time recently - I see why all the hype; it was the simplest install I've ever seen for a Linux distro, coupled with all the goodness of Synaptic and apt-get that I'm used to from Debian - bravo). Likewise I have Windows XP running in QEMU that I can use if I need to open a Windows document or want to use Windows software. I have no need for a dedicated Windows machine or even a dual boot scenario, so QEMU plugs this gap wonderfully.

      I'm old enough still that I'm not used to getting such a cool thing for free. And the work of volunteers like Bellard and Xhaard are deeply appreciated.

      I've donated to the Quanta+ project in the past, too. I've never been so ruggedly productive with a single piece of software which I use for editing code and HTML.

      Really there are a lot of projects worth throwing some bucks toward. Given how free-as-in-beer the free software world is, it's really worth it to save up a little and throw toward your favorite projects. I seem to remember from some time back that OpenSSH was having financial issues, and if you want to talk about a foundational application that absolutely must be supported, it's that.

      Though it's been awhile since I used Windows, I can think of two superb pieces of freeware worth a donation - Irfanview, which I still use at work, and which is probably the best image viewer (for my purposes) that I've found for Windows - light, fast, yet fairly powerful. And then there is the superb Xnews, which I used right up until I stopped using Windows altogether.

      Other than as an enthusiastic user, I have no personal connection to any of these projects. But I think that to the extent that it is possible, it is definitely worth financially supporting these efforts as much as possible. Think about these people, especially, after tax time when the rebates come back, if you're fortunate enough to get one.

      Free software *shouldn't* work according to everything people have tried to tell me about the world. Sometimes the universe talks back; grease the wheels of human virtue when you can. A couple less pizzas a year, is all it takes :)

  94. Docs by mattr · · Score: 1

    Perhaps someone who finds his work useful would like to edit his English site docs or provide other translations?

  95. Re:Look UP by pclminion · · Score: 1, Troll

    Spoken like someone who's never programmed a device. Congratulations, you're a moron.

  96. 1 chipset, 1 driver by XO · · Score: 1, Troll

    ...for 300+ cameras.

    IE, it's kinda generic. Like the freaking MOUSE driver.

    Not exactly a giant deal, someone wrote a driver.

    --
    "Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
  97. Re:In other news... by wyoung76 · · Score: 1

    GP REALLY needs to turn off their webcam..

  98. Re:Look UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blah blah bleh blah. Get over it. Ble-ble blah.
    Hmmm, very thoughtful.

  99. Translate this to the real world by houghi · · Score: 1

    People supporters write Linux code for free.

    What I think is disturbing is that it looks as if it somehow strange that a volunteer doesn't get paid. Well, welcome to the real world. Volunteers are not in it for the recogniton or whatever and if they are, they should get the hell out.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  100. Re:Look UP by UncleFluffy · · Score: 2, Informative

    A driver is basically a look-up table with settings. Get over it.

    Funny. The last driver I worked on had 3 embedded compilers, a full OS abstraction layer, garbage collector, and more than one look-up table. Drivers for similar devices have got more complicated in the time since then.

    You haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Get over it.

    --

    What would Lemmy do?

  101. Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This guy seriously needs to get laid!

  102. Spelling by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm more interested in the name of the developer. How could he not be an elite hacker, with a name like Doctor Xhaard?

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  103. french scientist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Probably a foreigner cause most french are dumb and lazy, I have been in France, their lunchbreak begins at 10.30 and ends at 15.00 with a hangover.

  104. Re:Look UP by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 2, Funny

    You wrote emacs? ;)

  105. Not many words for that except... by pjr.cc · · Score: 1

    Thank god he's on linux's side. Truly a remarkable effort really.

  106. Re:Witness Protection Program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude, that's really mean...

  107. Nobody backs him? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And none of the major Linux distributions back this guy's efforts, even the big players dipping into the corporate world's coffers.


    What this man needs is not funding, but a girlfriend.
  108. Also, he should have put the URL in the article by DrYak · · Score: 2, Informative

    He should have also given the project's page :
    Here is the link

    This is specially important because the most logical place people would try first, the official SF project, is lagging behind and not up to day.

    Thank you, Michel Xhaard, for your wonderful work. Thanks to you my own Logitech webcam, as webcams of other geeks around the world, have worked wonderfully for the last few years on Linux.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  109. Re:(Before a Debian/[K]Ubuntu user beats me to it. by alphamugwump · · Score: 1

    I used to have a really slick script that would record with mencoder and pipe it to mplayer, so I could see myself talk, and then just hit q when I was done. Unfortunately, I accidentally deleted it.

    Read this:

    http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Install_a_webcam

    You use v4l:// as your source, the video device is probable /dev/video0, and the audio device is probably /dev/dsp1. Notice the 1. That took me about 3 hours to figure out. Then you have to figure out how to encode to mpeg. Or if you want to take the easy way out, you use VLC and open your camera as a v4l source using the GUI. Of course, VLC is also a fat, fickle bitch, but that's another story.

    I've never gotten any of the dedicated cam programs working. I think most of them are intended for firewire or something. Oh, and I wouldn't plan on doing much editing either. KDenLive is probably the best I've seen, even though its still a rather buggy beta.

    I was impressed with Kopete, though. It worked right out of the box.

  110. Physician vs. physicist by iwein · · Score: 1

    I vote for "French physicist that accidentally called himself physician in an interview" i'm pretty sure that Doppler and Ultrasound imaging has less to do with medicine than with physics (erm...http://www.centrus.com.br/DiplomaFMF/Series FMF/doppler/capitulos-html/chapter_01.htm/ not very sure actually...).

    --
    Show a man some news, distract him for an hour. Show a man some mod points, distract him for the rest of his life.
  111. How sad by PermanentMarker · · Score: 1

    Strange this man could have earned quite some money if he did such work for a software house.
    Let alone if he had spend that time as a .net develper he would have been ehm rich...

    But then if he likes to work for free, then i wonder if he can find an opensource supermarket for his food :))
    Working for free is a bit stupid, and if you have nothing else to do but just program because you dont have any hobies or family life, then well ehm isn't he a bit poor guy then?
    He might be bright, but not so gifted i think it's a bit a sad story.

    For a happy ending, pay that man a buck if you use a cam with his software.

    I'm also wondering his home would it look like a bigbrother house? so many cams...

    --
    I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.
  112. My Praises for Michel Xhaard by timjdot · · Score: 1


    I've used the drivers on on the shelf webcams and they work great. Not sure why they have not been pulled into the kernel.org.

    A truly impressive and gratious feat.

    Thanks!
    (I'll donate if ever I make any money with Linux. I have still to learn how to sell.)

    --
    Expect Freedom.
  113. Corollary to that... by pestie · · Score: 1

    Corollary to that statement: it is not the job of a soldier to die for his country, but to make the other guy die for his.

  114. Oops - misread the headline by rainer_d · · Score: 1

    "Lonely Programmer Writes 352 Webcam Drivers For Linux"
    Nevermind...

    --
    Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  115. Re:Look UP by Virtex · · Score: 1

    You wrote emacs? ;)
    Don't be ridiculous. He wrote the "insert character" function for emacs.
    --
    For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
  116. GI Joe by MooseTick · · Score: 1

    This man is a true American hero.

  117. Where am I? by Nintendork · · Score: 1

    After getting so far into this French thread, I actually got confused and had to scroll up to the top to discover what the article being discussed is. Boy was I surprised!

  118. First it was cheese.. by sqldr · · Score: 0

    Now the french have a webcam for every day of the year! (except public holidays)

    --
    I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
  119. Just what I've been saying by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

    "And none of the major Linux distributions back this guy's efforts, even the big players dipping into the corporate world's coffers."

    Why the hell doesn't IBM, which makes billions off Linux, at least pay this guy a frikkin' salary?

    Better, why doesn't IBM and HP, both of whom make billions off Linux, start pressuring - or even paying for - certified drivers for Linux by every company that supplies peripherals and chipsets to their machines?

    Now that Dell is selling Ubuntu, will Dell pressure its peripheral and chipset makers to provide certified drivers for Linux?

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  120. A Better Number by triso · · Score: 1

    It gets worse...

    Slashdot Title? 253
    Article text/Slashdot summary? 352
    Article photo caption? 235 I vote for 666 drivers. It's a nice round number, it can't be confused by being incorrectly ordered and it's wrong.
  121. Re:Look UP by Raenex · · Score: 1

    The last driver I worked on had 3 embedded compilers, a full OS abstraction layer, garbage collector, and more than one look-up table. A good example of Greenspun's Tenth Rule
  122. -1 flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how did this get modded up?
    mods on crack.

  123. mystical mainline kernel .. by rs232 · · Score: 2, Informative

    'he seems to be one of these developpers who write GPL drivers for Linux (also GPL) but then refuse to have them included in the mainline kernel for some mystical reason'

    Well I emailed him and got this reply:

    'It is not "mystical reason", but a physical one: The mainline kernel did not allow video decompression. Gspca decompress the video in the kernel'

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com