Slashdot Mirror
Surgeon General Describes Censorship From Bush Administration
UniversalVM writes "The NY Times is reporting that the former Surgeon General in damaging testimony given to the senate describes how he was repeatedly censored by the Bush administration while speaking out about topics such as global warming, Stem cell research and so on. The effort was to 'water down' or weaken reports on important issues to suit Republican Agenda. He describes how he attended one meeting where Global Warming was being described as a 'Liberal Agenda' and being dismissed. He tried to intervene thinking that the people there did not understand the science so he set about explaining it to them, the result? He was never invited back."
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
Bush at work again, I see....
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
I can't wait until Bush has to get a tattoo on his back that reads: "SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING! Election of this individual may result in death and will increase the risk of the rest of the world hating you."
My work here is dung.
Recently, I went to this party, and when the band left, I grabbed the mic and started singing (I was imbibed). I've not been invited back....
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
On a more serious note, even if you think that global warming is a pile of horse manure, why would anyone object to the measures that are being suggested? Unless they owned a coal mine of course...
There's a lot of sense in heavy investment in nuclear, solar and wind power plus hybrid, diesel and electric vehicles even in a situation where the world isn't going wrong. Same with switching to CFLs and generally improving efficiency of resource usage etc... it's not like there are people who find clean air offensive... or at least I hope not.
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister
Science should never bow to political pressures. Bush is guilty of this, obviously...This is hardly the first evidence.
But, especially in the area of health care, he's far from the only one who has gotten involved in a negative manner. Reagan tried to squash talk about AIDS, Clinton poo poo'd needle exchange programs, Bush Jr. jumped on everything just as part of the administrations obsession about managing information.
This stuff really needs to be separate and non-partisan...I am so freaking tired of this or that issue being batted around because of peoples inborn prejudices. A reputable expert with actual facts puts together a well thought-out, scientific report, and they get defunded, their speeches are edited and pre-reviewed. People from within the administration work to discredit their testimony. It's just ridiculous, and there is no way good science or good policy is coming out of it.
Hell, while they're at it, they should add a scientist general, and do the same damn thing. This stuff isn't about opinion. There is a right answer.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I'm not sure 2008 can come quickly enough.
I don't for a moment think that any of the potential presidential candidates and their future administrations will not be rife with corruption and political mumbo jumbo. However, the constant news of abuses of power and position to make hideously bad decisions has me regretting the past 7 years thoroughly.
We need Mr. T for president, or at least Secretary of Defense.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
Try explaining anything scientific to your friends -- you soon won't have any.
...Bush Administration And at what point does the meter raise to impeachment of the clan?
I don't condone censorship of scientists in any way, shape or form. But why is the Surgeon General talking about global warming? He should leave that discussion to the climate experts (e.g. Jim Hansen). There are too many armchair climatologists out there, which contributes to the misunderstandings about global warming.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Join Scientists and Engineers for America. They are "a non-profit organization dedicated to renewing respect for evidence-based debate and decision-making in politics and at all levels of government."
If groups like that had the same sort of clout that religious groups have, America could remain the economic and philosophical leader of the world.
Of course, if we continue to elect politicians who make decisions based on theology instead of science, it may be time to start looking for jobs in western europe.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
What's the political organization in that office? The article made it sound as if political appointees outside the office were trying to tell him what to do? Who was it that had authority over this guy?
My blog
Sorry, the parent is not a valid, Bush Administration Surgeon General position. You only mentioned Bush only once and you full well know the standard for any proper scientific position is that President Bush must be mentioned in glowing terms 3 times per page. Please edit and resubmit your paper accordingly.
(If only that wasn't **actually true**!!!)
Dr. C. Everett Koop, who was Surgeon General during the Reagan Administration, was told not to speak on the subject of AIDS, which was regarded as a "gay disease." He courageously resisted this pressure.
Dr. David Satcher served as Surgeon General under President Clinton. He too faced political interference. His efforts to release a report on the benefits of needle exchange programs were blocked, an action that President Clinton has since called a mistake. And when he wanted to release a report promoting the use of condoms and other responsible sexual behaviors, he was told to submit his report for publication in a medical journal rather than release it as another Surgeon General's report. Also, may I remind everyone of DR. Joycelyn Elders who suggested teaching school children to masturbate. That went over real well in the Clinton administration. I remember her being pushed out for that.
Of course, let's not let facts get in the way of Bush Bashing.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
I was at that meeting he describes, and he wasn't invited back because, frankly, he was just too pompous.
Random staffer: Global warming? You mean "liberal agenda".
Rest of room: Ha ha ha. (random laughter)
Surgeon General: No, no. You don't understand. Global warming is real. It's scientific!
Me: Calm down. We're just fooling around.
Surgeon General: No! It's because of carbon dioxide emissions. Don't forgot how smart I am. Listen to me. I'm a surgeon and a general. Anybody else a surgeon here? No? Anyone else a general here? No? Then all of you just better listen.
Me: (whispering to guy next to me) Let's not invite him back.
Guy sitting hext to me: What an ass.
Best Windows Freeware
Look Clinton had a BJ and they tried to get him out of office. Bush has been screwing up a war form day one, went in when the evidence said no WMD's. Hell he even tried to pion sept 11 on Iraq, tho the evidence just was not there. Toss in things like the wire tapping issue where illegal wire tapping's occurred even tho getting a warrant to do it was basically a rubber stamp, and nothing happened. This is not the first time someone has said bushes gang tried to change the facts, and force bad info down on the public. In the end Bush is a oil guy, he don't care about the environment or anything, just making his own cash. Yet some how he is still in office, and Clinton who ya was not perfect almost got tossed out because of a BJ, give me a break.
... with regards to the Global Warming debate, is that people with no real knowledge on the subject (on both sides) persist in making declarations as if they were experts. This is further exacerbated, whether it's Hollywood loonies or right-wing religious fanatics, by their tendency to latch onto and espouse the most draconian of opinions. FWIW, in my opinion the Surgeon General has no more credibility on Global Warming than does Rush Limbaugh, and so his being asked to "stifle" does not bother me. Now, as regards stem cell research, that's a whole different ballgame.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Don't even bring Clinton into this.
Blar.
What does this have to do with technology? This story is not Slashdot worthy, in my humble opinion.
I guess the argument could be made that this is yet another example of censorship from the Bush administration, but frankly, it's not a very good one. Since when does the surgeon general speak authoritatively about global warming? I see nothing in his (Dr. Carmona) background which would lead me to believe he had the same depth of knowledge on the subject as the scientists who actually study the theory. The surgeon generals also complained about political pressure, but if we're having an argument based in reality, I'd be curious what political appointment doesn't feel some degree of political pressure. Nothing new here.
I agree, global warming is horse manure. But I would certainly like to stop burining coal and oil. Its about as primitive as those damn rockets NASA keeps launching. Smoke everywhere billowing out for miles, what the hell? The aliens are just looking at us shaking their heads. Some believe it is the (or some) aliens who wish to ruin this planet. There is definatly something feeding off of our fearhttp://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2007/ 090707closertosun.htm
What really sucks about this to me is that hearing news of claims like this should really surprise us, but really...
How many of us read the title and were shocked and/or appauled?
Kinda sad that we're numbed to seeing stuff like this.
This is my signature. There are many like it but this one is mine.
The coverage of this has amazed me. If you read (or watched) the testimony, what actually happened was that Surgeon Generals under the past FOUR presidents described how they were censored. It isn't unique to the Bush White House, it's a flaw in the whole system. Of course, you'll never hear the media criticize Clinton.
Eric (not an anonymous coward, the computer I'm at won't let me log in)
Couple of points:
1) As Surgeon General, he's part of the administration. Therefore, this is not censorship.
2) The Surgeon General is an MD, not a climatologist. Having an opinion he feels strongly about doesn't make him a) an expert or b) entitled to a public forum on said opinion.
"Reality has a well known liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert
--
make install -not war
Its rumored that the Reagan admin relied on astrology, tarot cards, etc in determining policy.
...just like tax cuts, military funding, and immigration control are part of the conservative agenda. I think it needs to be accepted that there are two sides to this argument, just like so many others. Bush does not believe that science has demonstrated a significant human contribution or significant human risk related to global climate change, and his policies are consistent with this view. This puts him in alignment with significant percentages of both the American public and the scientific community. The issue is unsettled, and the debate will continue for a long time I am sure. The idea that Bush is somehow exhibiting a special type of corrupt behavior by taking a stand on an issue and expecting his staff to back him up is just silly. We employ our leaders to represent our views with regard to public policy, and to oppose those who have opposite views. Liberals would like to see increased government regulation in response to the danger of global climate change. It's part of their agenda. And it's Bush's job as a Republican and (sometimes) a conservative to oppose these plans.
I can't stand CFL lights. Can someone please provide a link to a CFL with the same color temperature and visible spectrum as an incandescent lamp? They make peoples skin look like its dead and need a full minute to achieve the rated brightness. Hell, vacuum tubes need way less time to heat up. If they do ban incandescent lamps I'm going to invest heavily and stockpile them. Imagine prices a few years after a ban.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
This office will always, by its very nature, be politicized. If you don't like that, you should be arguing to get rid of the position entirely.
In a free society, the government would not have any power to make or enforce laws that bear upon anything an SG might have to say.
If humans are mostly water, and beer is mostly water, then humans must be mostly beer.
So an MD degree makes you a climate expert now?
I used to be furious that our soldiers were dying for a lie in the desert...then I learned that the military voted Bush in 2004...88%...and they kept spouting the usual lies on TV. I quit caring about them.
Then, amazingly, I just quit caring about Iraq. Nobody I care about is over there fighting that honor-less conflict.
*shrug*
Patriotism is for suckers. Citizenship is a business relationship, and that is IT! It's give and take. What can the country do for me, in return for my support.
Blar.
"I was specifically told by a senior person, 'Why would you want to help those people?' " Dr. Carmona said. Wow... just... wow. Let's torpedo the Special Olympics because they're associated with someone from the other party. That's pretty damn low.
"Coming up on our 11 o'clock news... President Bush unexpectedly attacked by an unruly mob and severely beaten with crutches and canes. VP Cheney terrorized by motorized wheelchairs. Gov't suspects Al Quada."
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
WHO CARES?
Is it not a problem because everyone abuses the system? Shouldn't that suggest to a rational person that we need to fix the fucking system? But no, you've got to immediately make it a partisan issue, because you can't ever be wrong, and nothing can ever be your fault.
Fucking crybaby conservatives. "Waaaaa, Clinton did it too, so why are you yelling at meeeeeee?" After 7 years, you pansies should be able to stand up for your own damn misdeeds.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
- Malaria and other diseases
- heatwave deaths
- water quality
It sure would have been helpful to have talked about them over the last seven years.After World WarII, several Nazi leaders were tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Not everyone wanted to do that. Winston Churchill, for example, just wanted to execute those Nazis. But the USA insisted on fair trials, saying that it was important to establish the principle of the rule of law.
Back then, the USA had leadership that demonstrated to the world how even the most heinous crimes (particularly the Holocaust)—in which many millions of people died—can and should be handled according to law and principle.
Compare that with what George W. does today.
There's a difference between
a. You being correct
b. Someone else being wrong
Claiming that someone else said something is no excuse nor justification.
He tried to intervene thinking that the people there did not understand the science so he set about explaining it to them, the result?
... wasn't invited back?!?
And after correcting the attendees' views on global warming based on my vast medical knowledge, I began to educate them on the virtues of socialism...
Ok, I'll bite.
The Surgeon General has the capacity (and duty) to evaluate scientific (i.e. evidence-based) input relating to public health. If there is scientific reporting that shows that global climate change is expected to have negative health repercussions (and there is), it falls in his area of responsibility.
Glad I'm not looking to be Surgeon General.
Discuss HIV/AIDS, and mention that proper use of condoms is important = IGNORED.
Discuss masturbation, and mention it's a natural urge = FIRED.
Discuss global warming, and mention there is a threat to our way of life = BANISHED.
But, AIDS was under Reagan, the wanking thing was Clinton, and I thought it was common knowledge that the Bush admin was making their own 'science', so where's the surprise? The SG has seemed an impotent title to me for years, and we don't expect any better from the Rove camp. Even Koop seems to have been reduced to late night infomercials for the elderly who are afraid of falling.
Funny however that the SG is an appointed position and the appointer rarely has the desire to listen.
Getting diabetes AND salmonella would be a bad weekend.
It's one thing if the administration knows and acknowledges the facts but refuse to make policy based on them.
The thing that bothers me is that the administration has no interests in facts at all, they would rather manipulate the facts to ensure whatever policy they make is supported. I am not referring to the Bush administration, I think our pool of politicians is of such poor quality that any administration formed form such a pool will follow the same footsteps.
I think this is a sign that the administration believes making people believe that the government is working for the good of the people is just as good as actually working for the good of the people. 1984 here we come!
Global warming is false anyway, what is really happening is climate change, only fools and idiots (mostly liberals) don't know the difference anyway.
Okay, I'll bite.... what is the difference?
-Jeremi the foolish idiot liberal
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Also, may I remind everyone of DR. Joycelyn Elders who suggested teaching school children to masturbate. That went over real well in the Clinton administration. I remember her being pushed out for that.
Of course, let's not let facts get in the way of Bush Bashing.
Sorry I'm not sure if you are advocating bush bashing for girls but denying monkey spanking for boys?
Personally, I think that teaching both bush bashing *and* monkey spanking is just fine at school.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
I suggest a new warning label be place around the globe...
"Surgeon General's Warning: Global warming may be dangerous to your health, or your career if you're pompous."
The (former) Surgeon General is a liberal??? Really?? Why do you suppose George W. Bush appointed a liberal to a cabinet level post?
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
This Censorship is brought to you by:
The letter B and
The number 666.
So, let's see here...
From TFA:
- The administration, Dr. Carmona said, would not allow him to speak or issue reports about stem cells, emergency contraception, sex education, or prison, mental and global health issues. (because, yanno, those have nothing to do with the guy in charge of health for the country...)
- Top officials delayed for years and tried to "water down" a landmark report on secondhand smoke, he said (Ve must toe ze party line, mein Heir)
- Dr. Carmona said he was ordered to mention President Bush three times on every page of his speeches. (Umm... Godwins Law warning!)
- He also said he was asked to make speeches to support Republican political candidates and to attend political briefings. (You work for us, not for those namby-pamby girly men)
- And administration officials even discouraged him from attending the Special Olympics (because we in the Republican party hate those damn cripples. They're just sponging off social welfare anyways.)
- The officials concluded that global warming was a liberal cause and dismissed it, he said. (It's true, actually. If we could instantly kill every liberal, global warming would be solved. Mostly because of the >50% loss in population, but still, technically, true...)
- Dr. Carmona described being invited to testify at the government's nine-month racketeering trial of the tobacco industry that ended in 2005. He said top administration officials discouraged him from testifying while simultaneously telling the lead government lawyer in the case that he was not competent to testify. (pfft! What would a DOCTOR know about TOBACCO?)
- When stem cells became a focus of debate, Dr. Carmona said he proposed that his office offer guidance "so that we can have, if you will, informed consent." "I was told to stand down and not speak about it," he said. "It was removed from my speeches." (pfft! What would a DOCTOR know about STEM CELLS?)
- The global health report was never approved, Dr. Carmona said, because he refused to sprinkle the report with glowing references to the efforts of the Bush administration. (truthfully, he did mention the Bush administration, but only in the context of "World health is suffering because Bush makes everyone sick to their stomachs...)
- Because the administration does not want to spend more money on prisoners' health care, the report has been delayed, Dr. Carmona said. (this must be why Libby never went to jail)
And the administrations response?
"It's disappointing to us," Ms. Lawrimore said, "if he failed to use this position to the fullest extent in advocating for policies he thought were in the best interests of the nation."
The only good side of all of this is that we only have ~1.3 years left.
I just fear it's ~1 year too much.
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
Serving in one of America's seven uniformed services, the SG serves the people at the pleasure of the President (Executive). He's there to take orders and perform assigned duties, not promote his personal agenda. If he wanted to be a politician there are plenty of offices he can get himself elected to. If he wants to create Koop2.com or whatever he can resign and go into the civilian sector.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
call it whatever you want but there is no way you can deny that the planet is warming. Change is just a nice way of saying, " we don't care about you or your kids or our own kids because we'll all be dead and we want all the money now".
Good Job FAG!
Somehow, somewhere along the line, science allowed itself to be bought through sponsorship of research, and then politicized through endorsement of certain political agendas which were suggested to be incarnations of scientific truth. Now, science itself is sullied, and is forever going to be caught in this battle between special interest groups vying for control of an oblivious electorate.
I think Lou Dobbs said it well:
With the electorate asserting a strong impulse to be independent, and with populism exerting a significant influence in the 2006 midterm elections, there is a possibility that all of those incumbents in the House and Senate may have to consider the possibility of actually having to represent their constituents and the popular will, rather than corporate America, socio-ethnic special interest groups and the tens of thousands of lobbyists who represent every interest but that of the common good and the nation.
Lou Dobbs - July 11, 2007
He's talking about government in general, but the same could be applied to science and even large parts of the computer industry. If science wants to have respect again, it needs to get rid of the perception that loyalties and bribes have made it a partisan football.
technical writing / development
OK, I was out of line accusing you of being a partisan hack. There was some brain pain once I realized that all the examples given were done to push Conservative agendas. Ignoring AIDS, repressing sexuality in children, and ignoring global warming and stem cells.
Got any examples of a president putting political pressure on the Surgeon General to advance liberal agends?
Blar.
And as for immigration control, I'm not sure how you can claim that to go to either side. It wasn't exactly top priority for Bush senior or Reagan, the Mexican border has been decaying for a long time...
So that just leaves you with tax cuts. Thanks for playing!
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
How do you figure that? Seems like the British were the bullies in that event...
I do agree with you in general, this nation has become quite arrogant and abrasive with power. Ever since WWII the USA has had foreign policies which I found/find offensive and a citizen of the USA. Notably, the forcing of our backwards drug laws on other nations in return for trade.
Blar.
I like the N:Vision green packaged bulbs from Home Depot. Overall they are pleasing to the eye and, like you, I hated CFLs in the past. I've replaced 12 bulbs in my house so far and will replace the rest as they burn out. They've come a long way from my first try 5 years ago or so. Likewise, I've also had some ugly incandescent bulbs in the past.
It's that belief structure that makes democracy not work.
Who cares if he's republican, who cares if he's conservative. He's the president. That means he should act in the best interests of the nation WHETHER OR NOT he personally agrees with it. That means letting all sides be heard, not squelching things he doesn't agree with. That means doing things that his party may not like, because it's the right thing to do.
That type of thinking is why most elections are worthless nowadays, because you have people who tick a box for a party without caring about the person's beliefs or if that party really agrees with that they believe themselves.
You never realize how much manually made unmanaged "linked" lists suck, till you have src.link.link.link.link...
Everyone knows Jesus created Global Warming as punishment for humans creating Islam. The Surgeon General has it all wrong.
So much that is passed off as "research" these days is simply propaganda meant to promote a scientist's politics. I wonder how much of the SG's "science" was cherry-picked by him to fit his views? It certainly sounds like he has his own agenda too.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
I will assume you mean our illicit drug laws (as opposed to the law about importing prescription meds which I largely agree with).
I have to think that if most illegal drugs were treated like alcohol (specifically relating to public intoxication, DUI, coming to work drunk earns a pink slip) then the black market economy would collapse (a good thing), and we could focus on treatment for those who want it (a good thing), and better enforce the few remaining drugs that are genuinely bad. While I personally would tan my kids' hides if I caught them doing X or speed (and related) I see that as my right (and responsibility) as a parent.
Back on topic though,
I am really saddened by my government's actions, and it's not really the president's fault (sure he's complicit), it is our system's fault. If either we had both parties agree that social support programs were necessary and the only difference of opinion was how to implement the programs, or if both parties were focused on private charity and support being the way to go, this country would be vastly improved. Fact is, that career politicians look after their career first and the public second. That is the root of the problem. One of my co-workers said he felt that every term in office should be followed by a term in jail, I'm almost inclined to agree.
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
I had the same complaint 10 years ago. Based on slashdotters telling me these problems have been solved, I went out and bought 5 more CFLs. Still takes a minute to reach full brightness. In 6 months I'll know whether the new breed lasts any longer than 10 years ago. I hope so because of the mercury (in the tube) and other toxic metal (in the electronics) content of CFLs.
I guess the former Surgeon General didn't have his Spin Doctorate. Bush prolly expected him to put his oath (if there is one) of the Surgeon Generals office above the Hippocratic sp? oath.
TANJ!
Codifex
I bought 5 Phillips brand bulbs of various sizes. They all take a minute to reach full brightness. Will know in 6 months whether lifetime has improved.
im so happy to live in a free country!!!! .... ohh wait...
It sounds horrible, but I really see this war as unethical and honor-less and the reflects on the men fighting it. I still do respect those men who were already in the military before Bush went on this bender. They just want to protect the country and they are being abused. Anyone who enlisted after 2004 when it was obvious to the nation that Bush was a liar...not so much respect.
But still...I just don't care what happens to suckers who believe the lies told them by government.
Blar.
I agree. They come in three color temperatures; I usually get the middle one, I always hated "soft white" bulbs, they make everything yellow. The coolest ones make everything look blue, though - the middle ones give the truest color I've seen in indoor lighting, at least to my eyes. Of the several we've installed, only one takes a while to warm up, and luckily it's just in the bathroom. We've replaced most of our bulbs with them. I just wish the soft white ones weren't so popular so they'd stock more of the cooler ones.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
n/t
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
I'll respect his views regarding medical subjects, but he is no more qualified to discuss climate science than I am.
-- Will program for bandwidth
What else has to happen before serious discussions over Bush's impeachment occur? When will Americans wake up and realize that the lives of thousands of soldiers are being traded for unmatched profits in the oil industry? How many more lies will our society grudgingly accept from the current administration? I'm saddened by our country's continued war mongering. I'm ashamed to sit here and call myself a registered voter in the face of such a corrupt government. Bush and his cronies have proven time and again that they care nothing for the common man. Their pockets are lined with the filthy funds and favors of corporate lobbyists. I've had enough, I'm disgusted by the warped version of capitalism we all pretend is democracy. This country is getting flushed down the toilet and Bush is jiggling the handle...
welcome our new republican overlords oh and condoms dont work, just ask my dad.
The difference is political. Climate change is caused by the sun, and is happening similarly all throughout the solar system. It is natural, and there is strong evidence for it. Recent discoveries have shown how the solar wind deflects x-rays, which are crucial in cloud formation. The more active the sun, the hotter earth gets, because there are fewer clouds. The less active our sun, the cooler it gets, because x-rays are allowed to permeate our atmosphere and cause more cloud formation. It's a classic feedback loop.
On the other hand, anthropogenic global warming is an unproven hypothesis, contradicts the geologic evidence where temperature variations precede CO2 variations, is based on vague flawed models where the results are independent of input data, and is mainly politically driven. There are some very heavy hitters in climatology who have stated over and over "Global Warming" is political psuedo-science.
Look it up and get educated. Don't just assume that a certain set of people who call themselves a "scientific consensus" (even though most of them are NOT scientists) are correct simply because they are "enlightened liberals." Anthropogenic global warming is about as correct as epicycles.
I don't know if anyone else had this tag line on the bottom of the page, but it seems to fit this posting.
"An expert is a person who avoids the small errors as he sweeps on to the grand fallacy. -- Benjamin Stolberg"
medreport 3.12.06 reporting gw globalwarming doubleplusungood refs unthings rewrite fullwise upsub antefiling
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
That is really interesting that he said that.
What I can't stand is the whole "two wrongs make a right" thinking of this administration's unconditional supporters. When are people going to understand that EVERY ADMINISTRATION should be held to high standards, especially in this area of ideological interference with supposedly independent branches of government. Philosophically, this ideal is what separates our democracy from totalitarian governments, and it is incredibly important. I think any objective observer would find massive abuses of the noninterference ideal from this administration. As a scientist (casually associated with major US and international societies in biology), I can tell you there are few of us who are comfortable with this administration's constant interference with science. Frankly, this is the opinion that should matter the most (meritocracy), not the constant pundit rants about how "clinton did it too! clinton did it too!" For one, the crap that happened under Clinton was disorganized at best, not some concerted effort such as that taking place by the neocons. It seems lately every government institute comes under pressure from political ideology now -- the EPA, the attorney general, NIH, and now the surgeon general's office. In the end though, I can't stand Tony Snow constantly dodging questions by saying Clinton did it too as if that makes everything ok.
Approximately 40-50% of the united states is not worthy. Please do not assume that the entire country is just as stupid as those idiots. It's just the mean average is low since the stupid/illegal ones have been breeding more. (coincidentally my capcha is births)
*shudder* So much pasty skin...
You can't take the sky from me...
Can't we wait until this is reported in a reliable news source to get worked up about it? I mean the National Enquirer does more fact checking than the New York Times.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Climatology is not a liberal science. It is science, plain and simple.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I live in Cobb county Georgia (stickers on Bio texts saying Evolution is a theory and not fact) and I'd like to apologize on behalf of my neighbors - the ones with the Mall Terrain Vehicles with the pristine "Bush/ Cheney '00" and the "W '04" bumper stickers on them for keeping his approval rating that high.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
You mean global warming is not a 'Liberal Agenda' ?
I thought Al Gore invented it.
You just quit caring about Iraq? Even if you don't care who dies, what about the $500,000,000,000 we've wasted so far, and the likely $500,000,000,000 we'll waste in the future before we finally pull out?
We're talking about a trillion dollars here. Enough to fund about SEVEN Apollo programs in today's dollars!
Talk about getting screwed over in your business relationship! You ought to care about that.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Oh For God's sake, don't any of you people have lamp shades??!!! Even the whitest light imaginable passing through a yellow lampshade will come out yellow.
Since this is Slashdot think of the shade as a "hack" on the light spectrum maybe that'll motivate you to use your brain to solve this incredibly complex problem of "how do I make white light less white?"
Yeesh.
The Generation
I'd say something witty here, but I'm not that bright.
What is the point of the story. President's men don't let somebody in the administration go off message with stories about some hokey quasi religious opinions [Global warming], assorted tivial issues [stem cell, special olympics, smoking].
I mean do you really think this was censorship or just comebody confused about their job? When you are appointed a spokesperson for the President of the United States, well you better believe your job is to talk about what the President wants and not what you want, and focus on what the President ultimately decides and not what you decide.
This is no different then lets say Journalist who continuously buck their editors, yea the story may have some significance, but you're not doing your job.
is global climate change NOT a liberal agenda? It is as it always was. I don't mind true political debate and discussion, but let's get real here. The current global warming scare is just as deplorable as when the same people were warning of a global ice age in the 70's. Saying it's not a liberal agenda is like saying that capitalism isn't a conservative agenda. The bullying and censorship that has been going on has been perpetrated by Gore and his ilk. Finally, the bullied scientists are coming out to say enough is enough. Unfortunately, it's too little too late. Gore's plan to defraud the world with his "junk-bond" carbon credits has got to be one of the biggest scams in the history of the world. I can't believe that people are stupid enough to buy into that...while calling GW a moron that was able to mastermind 9/11 and everything that has followed.
The earth will wipe us out long before we could ever do damage to the planet. We are simply not that important and many of us just need to come to terms with that. There is no SG-1 and we are not destined to be the saviors of the galaxy. Sorry.
"The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), an organization that was covertly created by Philip Morris for the express purpose of generating scientific controversy regarding the link between secondhand smoke and cancer."
They have recently been mostly funded by the oil lobby for the express purpose of... well, you can deduce that last bit.
You can't take the sky from me...
This article is here because we, slashdotters, prefer to keep current with news of technology and science. One of America's top scientists has something to say about how he was not allowed to speak to the scientific evidence he witnissed as Surgeon General.
While there will always be political pressure in one direction or another, the amount that this regime has spewed has crossed the line several times over.
The New York Times is the same newspaper that, two years ago, released a very long, very fact-barren cover story, and later ADMITTED that everything in the article was a blatant lie.
s e/2007/01/04/ny_times_admits_to_a_blatant_lie
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/JaniceShawCrou
why he is speaking out NOW... if he were unable to do his job years ago, why'd he fill out his term? He could have resigned with a big statement and pushed a lot more pressure on the POTUS, especially if it came BEFORE the 2004 election.
Also, there's only one source for the story. Himself. People are running with that. However, you can't be sure how much of that is actually true. Can he produce memos describing these rules? Does he have ANY evidence to back up his story? If not, he sounds just like someone with an axe to grind.
I PITY THE FOOL who wants to elect somebody based on their performances as fictional characters!
Mr T won world's toughest bouncer, twice. The second time got him noticed by Stallone, and a chance to be a fictional character.Before that he was an MP, he legally changed his name to "Mr T" so everyone would have to call him mister, and T is for tough (and booker and his real initial).
He invested his money in gold, which he wore around his own neck, all 60lbs of it. If you want it, you have to come get it from him.
He donated most of said gold to help the victims of Katrina, he beat cancer, etc.
He's a character alright, but he's not fictional.
You can't take the sky from me...
I can't believe this comes as news. I worked w/ a bunch of scientists (in a government institution) and it was horrendous how much censorship there was. Some guys quit after the Bush admin. came to power because they literally couldn't publish anything. The guys that stayed just haven't published anything in the past several years. They aren't allowed to speak at any conference without their speech being reviewed and "edited" (censored). Since they were mostly environmental and earth scientists, that meant 50% of the presentation was removed. They didn't have this restriction w/ Clinton. Believe it or not, most of the scientific community supports the idea of climate change. It appears it's split down the middle because the media has been giving each side equal coverage (because they're the news and it looks better if they show both sides).
The Republican War on Science, by Chris Mooney
WARNING: This book will make you very pissed off.
It describes obvious efforts by the administration to suppress findings that go against its political agenda. The most insidious tactic used is the muddying of waters. Especially using an amazing term known as "junk science". "Junk Science" basically means any scientific finding that doesn't agree with the administration.
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net
I like
Why did he serve for 4 years and only afterwards whine about his treatment? The time to make a serious point was at while it was happening to pu publicly resign.
After all that, I'd just like to add that Chertoff looks like a damn necromancer.
I find it so easy to picture him commanding the zombie hordes whilst holding aloft a skull yellowed by the old stains of blood...
Back in what we all tend to think of as the dark ages and other periods of ancient history, we had people suppressing science for religious reasons... but back then religion and politics were mostly the same thing anyway. Technically, today they are not the same thing though there are some clear connections being allowed anyway.
It seems that so many important advances in the sciences have been in spite of government and religion instead of because of them. And yet while we HAVE these useful technologies, government and religion are all about using them and abusing them and often thanking "god" for them.
Will we ever have more than tiny revolutions where real "thinking" becomes popular?
I often hold forth in a pithy and informative way on a variety of scientific topics, and usually find my audience struck dumb with admiration.
I was concerned at first by the fact that they never seem to have any questions. But I learned to ask, "I'm not boring you, am I?" They never are. Clearly I have enlightened them in such a lucid manner that questions are superfluous.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
That's probably because Bush thought he was spozedta be the "Surgin' General" to take all them troops into Iraq. When he instead heard a bunch of science mumbo jumbo he HAD to do SOMETHING!!
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
Will we ever have more than tiny revolutions where real "thinking" becomes popular?
;) and if you define "real thinking" as intellectualism, you get bolsheviks, jacobins, national socialists, the whole bloody lot.
Revolutions run by intellectuals are pretty much bloody horrors. There's a difference between wisdom and intelligence (there's a reason why they're separate D&D stats
Actually, most of those horrors come from romanticism, which needs to be eradicated from "real thinking" when it comes to dealing with governments and regulating peoples' rights. Romanticism (as opposed to realism) may very well be too dangerous to be allowed to control things, if the 20th century is any guide.
Beauty is _not_ truth. That's just what beauty wants you to _think_, so you'll be able to rationalize your succumbing to romanticism.
his duties do include informing the president of health issues. Global climate change is going to bring with it several health issue, like diseases;which is his job to inform the president of.
It's ok, I remember when the Reagan administration insisted AIDS wasn't real, and refuse to acknowledge it. So I am use to republican presidencies stifling any research counter to their belief.
"...not promote his personal agenda. "
Climate change isn't a personal agenda issue, it's a scientific fact.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"Why isn't anyone questioning what expertise a surgeon general could have in the field of GLOBAL WARMING?"
Exactly. Which is why we should question why anybody listens to Al Gore on the subject.
Audio here from Ted Koppel on the same subject today.
But seriously, does this surprise anyone? At all? Evil, yes, but it's just more of the same and there's not a damned thing anyone is going to do about it. Welcome to democracy in the US. Defeat all that doesn't equal more power and money for those that have an abundance already. Gotta love right wing politics dontchya!
*grumble grumble*
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
In general, lamp shades act as filters that attenuate certain bands. If you don't have a particular color frequency to begin with, a lamp shade isn't going to help you any. The problem with certain lighting isn't that it's "too white" but rather that there are some frequencies that just aren't there (at least, not in sufficient quantities). For example, if you start with a bulb that produces only green light, all the filters and shades in the world aren't going to get any red photons out of it.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
I've heard a lot of bad things about Bush, but unfortunately I couldn't find any centralized place for them all. The Wikipedia article on Criticism of George W. Bush seriously needs a lot of work. Are you slashdotters interested in helping?
Of course they do. Didn't you know conservatives opposed the Americans with Disabilities Act as unfair government meddling with business? Much like any other minority, conservatives would be happier if they were simply swept under the rug and were forced to deal with a world built for the majority.
It's a combination of Social Darwinism from the libertarian side of the party and a desire to see crippled people more dependent on private organizations (i.e. churches) from the religious right side. (Another reason why, as a Christian, I can't stand the religious right.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
The primary reasons is this:
The groups in charge of looking into this crap are almost all republicans(bear with me here).
Reagan's 11th commandment is to never speak badly of fellow republican. Something that republicans have been goose stepping to since the early 80s.
It looks like that is finally falling apart.
The democrats have a much better history of calling other democrats out.
Are those statments true 100% of the time? no, but easily 75% of the time.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Now just what in the hell is that? A rubber that comes with duct tape?
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
[T]he SG serves the people at the pleasure of the President (Executive).
Out of curiosity, since this seems to be the current right-wing talking point... Are there any executive branch positions that are not meant to serve at the pleasure of the President and which are *not* meant to partisan, in your eyes?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I feel like death on a soda cracker.
He or she, by default, is the voice of reasoned medical opinion speaking from within the government. The SG has very little political power, besides the trust the public puts in him. There is no reason to abolish the post under your logic- it is essentially powerless. The fact that the opinion of a former Surgeon General has created such an uproar is a good thing. He is fomenting political change (in policy, not necessarily in leadership) using only the power of his bully pulpit. He is making or enforcing no law at all.
Even if you believe that the government shouldn't be enforcing any health or safety regulations, it makes sense that there should be a figure in government whose expertise is public health. Otherwise, who would advise the President and Congress in the event of a major epidemic? Or, as now, in the event of a war? Or a natural disaster? Or a case of widespread contamination? Or in light of medical conditions which may have bearing on non-medical legal actions- penalties for crimes committed by the mentally ill, or the incapacitation of a lawmaker?
Having a respected public official, whose only job is to speak truth to power, seems like a worthy thing to me.
You dislike the Republican party right now and think that they at least had some dignity in the past; you know a candidate for the Republican party that actually DOES stand for what you want, and because he is running on a Republican ticket he has a chance of winning. And you refuse to vote for him?
If you can't say something nice, make sure you have something heavy to throw.
... I have to ask you Americans: why aren't the majority of you out in the street, protesting? I have no doubts that the majority of you are aware that your administration is blatantly corrupt and out of control. But where are the mass public demonstrations? Are you passively just waiting for the 2008 elections? Don't you realize that the Democrats will be just as blatantly corrupt if they see the electorate as a bunch of push-overs that are more interested in watching Pop Idol than protesting against their government?
Seriously, you guys are smart. You know what the real deal is. Have you simply lost all morale? Or is it something else? Please, I am not trying to start a flame war here (hence my not posting as AC). I would love to hear your stories.
Or at UPS or FedEx. Their business model relies it being cheap to operate huge fleets of carbon-spewing airplanes and trucks.
Or at Amazon.com. Which would go out of business without UPS or FedEx.
Or at any big company whose business model depends on shipping a lot of stuff back and forth. Which nowadays is all of them.
Or you. Yes, you, the guy who drives to work alone because it's a pain to carpool or ride transit. And don't tell me you own a hybrid — 70% of a huge carbon footprint is still a huge carbon footprint.
But you're right. There's been a good case for cutting back on fossil fuels long before anybody heard about global warming. There's only so much of it, and nobody's making any more. This has been known for over a century.
So why isn't anything being done about it? Because our economy and our lifestyle is built around cheap energy, and nobody is willing to make the sacrifices involved in a major change. Or if they do, that makes them irrelevant — those crazy hippies down the block who don't own a car.
Instead we do marginal stuff like switching to florescent bulbs and driving hybrids. We spend a little extra on "green power" and tell Congress to spend a little extra on new sources of energy. But not too much—taxes are already too high.
Face facts. Maybe you're not one of the moral Neanderthals who doesn't want to hear about climate change, resource depletion, and environmental degradation. But you're still part of the problem. Because even though you admit the problem exists, you tell yourself you don't have to make any big sacrifices to turn things around. And that means that you're fooling yourself, just as much as the guy who won't thinks the problem is just a scam to take away his SUV.
When did the SG become a spokesperson for the president? His job is to advise the president on health issues.
Bush claims he's spreading "freedom and democracy" (or 'Freeman Moxy' as he calls it) around the world, but it appears there must be only a finite quantity as he seems hell bent on reducing it at home.
Oh well, he only has eighteen months left before he's kicked out on his arse (or ass). What ticks me off - well, apart from everything, and the fact that apathy allows him to get away with it - is that those of us who live in other friendly western nations such as Australia and the UK also have to live with the consequences of his tiny intellect and we don't get to vote for/against him. Our own leaders are little more than "me too" lickspittles without the backbone to say "no more!". Until recently there was no electable opposition with an aganda worth a flying fig, but things are changing. I think the political landscape is going to look very different two years from now - roll on that day!
Americans - when even your best friends are telling you that you stink, don't you think it's about time you started taking the problem seriously?
"The mood in America is shifting rapidly, and President Bush has gone from hero to goat.
On this trip to the state where George Bush launched his disastrous political career, I purposely decided to wear my impeachment shirt while traveling, as a way of gauging popular sentiment."
~ awaiting spiritual enlightenment ~
Then you should prepare your resume now in German... and good luck finding a job in Western Europe amid the high unemployment rate there.
I'm certain that, in the relevant meetings, the Surgeon General would be one of the few (if not the only) trained scientist in the room.
I'm also pretty certain that he'd be pretty up-to-date on the scientific issues of the day, because he would (amongst other things) be reading peer-review publications that covered more than just biology. You know, the ones that have had thousands of papers backing up global warming with hard, empirical data and not a single one that contradicts them.
But, putting that aside, the Surgeon General's job is to protect the long-term public health.
And if a situation that has the potential to cause millions of medical emergencies (from skin cancers and heat stroke deaths at one end of the scale to making large parts of the planet very uncomfortable for human life, as well as destroying the ecosystems upon which that human life depends on for sustanance), well, I would think that it would be his duty to speak up and explain the potential risks and consequences to those who should be made aware of them.
I'm guessing from the rest of your post that you'd be more comfortable with scientific input being provided by the Christian right than by a man with a decent grasp of the best data available and the knowledge and understanding of what it actually means.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
because its upon us nonetheless.
Read radical news here
Disclaimer: I am an Australian and I don't hate the US, this is just an honest observation. Most of the Americans I meet are good people.
Maybe not the bully in the revolution, although some of the things you yanks lumped on the British were exaggerated.
The problem is that you essentially became bullies, victims of your own success in your revolution and as a result you are unable to untie your nation from war and violence. We hear volumes of about the great America at war, but next to nothing about the great America at peace. Like I said this is due to being victims of your own success early on, up to and including WWII, then you made the worst mistake possible, you believed your own marketing and got into a few unwinable wars at it has cost the US. A great many social and political problems would be greatly diminished (some would disappear completely) if US society stopped glorifying violence.
As I said I don't hate the US, I was and still am a staunch supporter of the ANZUS treaty despite the quagmire you got us involved with in Iraq and the terrible trade policies the US has against us (Australia).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
If the liberals have their way, this will become a Nanny State or a Prison Nation in that we are told what to eat, how to behave, and how to act.
The Surgeon General has released statements that use fear to control people's eating habits, buying habits, behavior and actions. He uses fear to control people in the same way that a terrorist uses fear. He takes money from companies that want him to make statements that use fear to control people to buy their products. In this case the Surgeon General took money from the pro-global warming lobbyists so that he can release statements that force people to buy carbon credits and use products that the pro-global warming companies and organizations sell. In this way global warming is a scam. Global warming is a new religion spawned from liberals in order to control people with it and eventually control the world. Releasing CO2 into the atmosphere is a sin, but can be forgiven by buying carbon credits.
Soon, people won't be able to have the freedom to decide for themselves anymore, and will have organizations run by liberals telling them what to do. Everyone should have the freedom to choose how to live their lives and what they should do. Let us end this tyranny that the Surgeon General, PETA, etc have on the lives of many people that force them how to decide using scare tactics. Let us give back the freedom to decide for themselves to the people again once more!
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
If you were right (and you're not) it's not censorship for the administration to direct its appointees to focus on topic and messages the administration priorized.
What I get from the story is that President is a far more powerful position than Presidential Appointee.
I would have been impressed had the Surgeon General declared, the FIRST time he objected, that he would be resigning the post and entering into private practice. (Aside from giving up a couple of years of the Federal retirement package, he would have greatly increased his earning power.)
But no. Republicans waited until it was too late to *do* anything about it, to start turning coat. Now that the soon-to-be-former Bush Administration will be exiting before any real action against it can churn through the slow process, what's the point?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Don't really care to read much about this non-issue, but if this "censorship" did in fact happen, personally I'm glad. Whether or not your average slashdotter agrees, issues like global warming _are_ political. If this person was trying to push a political agenda, I'm glad they were "censored" some.
The religion of global warming is a scary thing...
I'm sure that's true, but the question at issue here is who the ventriloquists were telling the "dummy" what to say.
One also has to wonder why it takes the "dummy" this long to come forward; was dummy more concerned about keeping said cushy job than doing the right thing? Instead he waits until he's an ex-SG and after the crime is no longer in progress before coming forward.
With self-centered enablers like this, is it any wonder we can't manage to impeach the bastard(s)?
When did I work with you?
Our founding fathers removed the guys in charge. Be American. Vote incumbents out.
Anal sex is common in pre-literate societies and has been frequently observed among primates (especially bonobos). According to this Wikipedia article, it has been observed among many hundreds of species, and "No species has been found in which homosexual behavior has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all".
180 degree double take. A Prison Nation where we are highly controled through fear? How on earth can you blame liberals for the things the Bush administration is working like mad to implement right now? Have you not been paying attention to the play by play? Need proof? Try taking a walk through downtown New York wearing a head scarf and take a bunch of tourist photos sometime. Try lighting up in a public place and see what happens. Try preventing your kids from being immunized in some states. Try owning a gun in others. Try getting an abortion for your girlfriend. Try wearing a teeshirt which says "Impeach Bush" to the Whitehouse. Heck, try buying Organic food, (the Bush government just made it legal for non-organic food producers to use the Organic label.) Try taking a book out of the library about how to blow stuff up. Try making a phone call through AT&T and expecting privacy. And on and on.
In this case the Surgeon General took money from the pro-global warming lobbyists [. .
Give me a break. You can't back that up. The Surgeon General doesn't even have the power to do anything about fossil fuel emissions. Heck, the major sticking point had more to do with Stem Cell research than anything else.
I don't think Wester Medicine is all too great, and I'm not even a liberal. (I don't play the tweedle dee and tweedle dum political division game.) --But I have noticed that people who cleave to the conservative side often exist in a state of perpetual delusion and anger.
Take a deep breath and rethink your statements because they don't make sense.
-FL
As an outsider I thought this was how the US worked. Your either with us or against us.
It is not about the issues in the US. Its about being part of the "team".
The President has released statements that use fear to control people's voting beliefs, behavior, and actions. He has released statements known at the time to be false, and the press reported them as factual and even know people refuse to believe that they were false. He uses fear to control people the way a terrorist uses fear, he uses lies to control people the way a con-artist uses lies. He takes advice from companies that want him to make statements that use fear to control Congress and loosen the purse strings so he can spend our tax money on their products and services. He does this for Halliburton, Qualcomm, and others to get them contracts in Iraq, to force people who think they're being "patriotic" to support his foolish war... the war that is a scam. The "New American" religion is built on distorted readings of old religion, spawned by neoconservatives to control people and eventually control the world.
Thanks for providing a good example of how hard it can be to understand science.
This project has the potential to be meaningful, but it has a long way to go yet. They need a hypothesis, a rigorous way to test it, and repeatable results.
What the surfacestations project has right now is the beginnings of a hypothesis--that local changes have biased the long-term trends that weather stations have recorded. It's not really a strong one yet because they don't have good coverage yet...last time I checked there were like 15 station reports, out of well over a thousand, and that's just the NOAA stations.
Once they have good coverage they'll need to devise a quantitative way to test for bias in the readings. This might involve placing duplicate weather stations nearby but further from the alleged bias factors, and looking for long-term differences in readings. Or it might involve comparative statistical analysis to check the data trends from these terrestial stations with satellite and other terrestrial data sets. The point is, they are going to have to do some testing or comparison involving precise numerical data.
Then their conclusions have to be peer reviewed and published, where they will become public knowledge for other scientists to poke around in, look for flaws, and try to repeat.
Unfortunately you jumped right past all that stuff, straight to a belief that the mere existence of this site somehow provides support for your pet theory. It doesn't.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Don't bother. Showing them real evidence and proof will only confuse the liberals.
They only accept "junk" science that has been stamped with an official liberal seal.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
It really does look like education in the USA has declined significantly. The last thing we need is 300 million people who believe in conspiracy theories and think educated people are living off bribes. I'm hoping the above rant was a joke - if not could the above poster please supply their age so we have some idea how much time we have left before most postions of power in the USA are occupied by dangerous luddites.
I'm sure this SG has no agenda of his own. Sure, whatever. Look, in politics you surround yourself with people who believe as you believe, both sides do it, anyone who doesn't do it is retarded, acting like republicans have to buck common sense is too stupid to comment on further.
Ah, so you're one of those. Link to an article where mainstream science, or Al Gore for that matter, said global warming would "jeapardize the existence of man." You're creating a classic strawman argument. By pretending that the scientists investigating global warming are all alarmist hand-wavers, you have identified what your "research" consisted of. You read a bunch of conservative talking points saying that "alarmist" scientists think that global warming will wipe out all life, and since it won't, we can't trust them. But that isn't the mainstream scientific position, and anyone who has "researched" this would know that.
Do you also feel qualified to "research" the germ theory and weigh in with your insights? How damned arrogant can you really be? Can I do a bit of reading in my study, ponder a bit, and just expect to wash away plate tectonics, the heliocentric model of the solar system, the germ theory, the atomic theory, or other mainstream scientific theories? No, and only an arrogant ass would think that their opinion, based on a bit of half-assed "research" on conservative blogs, was more informed that the entire damned scientific community. Could you possibly have a higher opinion of yourself?
I take it you didn't actually read my message closely, nor the actual papers I linked to. Try reading the papers, then get back to me.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
What do you mean? We *are* revolting.
Har har. *sob*
Problem is that those of us who actually pay attention to these things must have some sort of a priori bias against whoever did them bad things, or else we wouldn't be paying attention in the first place. Therefore my opinion is worthless to anyone not already interested in it, and anyone interested in it cannot be trusted to have an unbiased opinion.
[|]
Why is that some things are happening at this stage? 1. The gentleman's story about being gagged (if I may use the word) 2. Discussions in the media on the hopeless situation with the international initiatives of the GBW administration 3. Republicans leaving their stated positions of support for GBW To me it looks like the media is doing some kind of penance for its actions in the past. Can't help but refer to Michael Moore's remarks about the media not having been vigilant enough. I think you will see more of GBW bashing and a false sense of fair reporting (for the average person) in the near future.
That anytime someone attempts to disagree with the global warming imams they are yelled down and vilified, you always know the other side is worried when they refuse to debate an issue. You want everyone to believe the causes of global warming is simply a fact and NO other reading of the "evidence" is remotely entertained as serious inquiry.
Fact is, global warming is occurring I agree. Fact is the earth has been going through global and cooling trends since time immemorial.
What I disagree with vehemently is the idea that we are the overwhelming cause of warming and surprise surprise the left wants to tax me more to "cure" it. And at the same time making sure my job moves overseas to a competitive environment is NOT the solution.
Exact same FUD when the world was entering an ice age in the 70's, Exact same FUD when the world was going to run out of food due to "overpopulation".
Sorry, I simply don't believe you anymore. But you youngun's go ahead and continue drinking the koolaid, meanwhile I shall partake of the benefits of a capitalist society which includes burning as many carbons as I see fit to afford, much like Gore's 10,000 sq foot house, private jet, and limousines.
Politicians are usually scum, regardless of political party. No need to be any more articulate than that.
I also noticed that 80% of Americans hip-hip hoorayed a war in Iraq killing 100s of thousands of innocent people and providing a hotbed for global terrorism.
I recall quite vividly that every critic of the war, was derided, smeared, insulted and partially threated for their lives.
I noted that this administration, elected (at least the second time by a majority of US citizens) leaked the name of an undercover intelligence operative for no better reason then to smear her husband, who the administration didn't like.
I recall a hell of a lot really bad and rotten things for which this administration and ultimnately the people that elected them are responsible.
That, quite likely, includes you.
So please don't give me this "we're all so much against it, but those in power..." bullshit.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
.... a delicious moment of visualising Bruce Willis standing over GWB with a Desert Eagle, saying "Yippie kay ay, melonfarmer".
In Australia we had a xenophobic MP who famously replied "please explain" to an accusation of xenaphobia. She was as dumb as dogshit and is good evidence that under our system we still get wako's in postions of power. However she never garnered more than ~5% of the general population outside her electorate and was basically laughed out of office - evidence that there is at least some merit in our system.
"misinformed/uninformed voting"
Now I know AC's don't reply but can anyone "please explain" how the above quote is possible in a democracy - surely ANY rationale for voting is just as valid as ANY other.
OTOH: It could well be that in a "perfect democracy" we would still have to put up with the likes of Hamas, Howard, Bush, Pauline Hanson and Olmert. (Names in order of their electrol support, not military might).
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Firstly, yes it's an AC post (my IP address range is blocked from slashdot signon for unknown reasons) but here it is and I hope my obvious knowledge of this subject will speak for itself.:
My personal direct knowledge of Y2K relates to the running of the UK rail network. The critical IBM mainframe-based train tracking system (called TOPS - Total Operations Processing System - you can google it) was absolutely riddled with two-digit date code, with the dates being compared such that the compare would be wrong for year 00.
When TOPS stops working (and invalid output is in this case probably worse than it just crashing), all trains in the UK grind to a halt within a maximum of four hours. The only time the system can be out for longer than four hours is Christmas day (no trains). There is no real contigency except you could probably schedule some minimal skeleton services after a few days. We have four-hour maximum disaster recovery plan (involving live disc syncing to a remote site) to cover hardware failure etc. but obviously this is useless for intrinsic software problems.
It took a team of specialist programmers about four years to track down and eliminate the Y2K problems, and the fixed systems were then tested rigourously on a seperate MVS LPAR running on the appropriate future dates.
My personal role was to upgrade the system software that supports TOPS (e.g. CICS and related products) and the in-house written utilities, working closely with the TOPS application team.
Just one line of code that I fixed myself would have (if left unchanged) resulted in crucial Train Crewe scheduling reports (and many other less critical prints) not being printed for a 48hr period starting at midnight 31st Decemeber 1999.
This is just the most critical example of how the UK rail network was affected. The ticketing, reservation and timetable systems (mostly written in the 1970's/early 80's) had similar problems.
Also, since we shared information and expertise with other large companies, I know that all the major banks, utilities etc. in the UK had similar issues in critical systems and spent similar amounts of effort resolving them.
It makes my blood boil when ignorant people say there was no real Y2K problem or it was trivial. The reason there were no significant problems was that we spent *years* fixing and testing.
I've only had problems with the high-power (20W) extra-efficient extra-bright ones: when they turn on, it's dim. But after a few seconds my eyes are used to it and by the time I remember that the lights were dim they no longer are. So I cannot say how long it takes them to power up.
I have some 15W/75Wreplacement bulbs from the same company and they are apparently full brightness as soon as they are on. There may be a smidgin difference (e.g. 70W equivalent) by that is gone after a few seconds and isn't noticeable unless I've come in from the kitchen where there are two strong flourescent tubes so even normal incandescent 100W bulbs would be dim.
...instead of years ago, when he was deep in it.
How come he's only telling us this horror now? I mean, he *was* "Surgeon General" back then. Responsible for science.
Why didn't he complain the moment that damn administration tried to stop him?
Pfff. Not impressive.
Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
Sure, you can walk on your hands if you want to and open doors by banging your head against them and turning the handles with your mouth. You can also get sugar into your bloodstream by putting it in your anus. Is that what they seem to have been made for to you? If not, why use an anus for sex. I don't care if you do it, it just seems stupid (and stinky) to me. Be as stupid as you want, but don't tell me your stupidity is normal and healthy, and that those practices "aren't necessarily unhealthy". I think that your criticism of the parent post is silly.
worried about global warming? The man ain't a climatologist. More to the point, why does the federal government still have the worthless surgeon general post at all when they already have the Center for Disease Control? As for stem cell research, why should the federal government be involved in it at all when there is plenty of privately funded research going on now?
"I'm glad he spoke up. But hey, maybe this would have helped a bit more five years ago."
In pretty much every government position, Surgeon General or otherwise, if you speak out against your boss you tend to get fired, and to use the old Hollywood cliche, "Never work in this town again". This is especially true with the Bush administration.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Well then the Bush Administration is not doing its job properly, or you'd be in jail instead of posting on Slashdot. If even half of what you posted was true, many US Citizens that speak out against Bush would be in jail, the fact that they are not proves that not only are they wrong, but so are you. Dollars to donuts when Al Aqeda recruits someone to do a suicide bombing in the USA, it will more likely be someone like you who hates the USA that does the suicide bombing.
as liberals have done those things for the past thirty years. The Surgeon General position has been used to control and manipulate people for the past fifty years now.
so we know when Liberal Internet posters started being brainwashed in public schools by liberal professors? That is the real truth behind the failing education system.
Of course elected officials take bribes and lobbyists influence their votes. If not, why do the lobbyists exist in the first place?
"Would it be OK for Bush to eat Jew baby brains if Clinton did too?"
No. It would make those who stood silently while Clinton feasted, but freaked out when Bush did the same hypocrites, however.
The point you and your kind miss when this happens is that large portions of the people so vehemently denouncing Bush for his wrongs ignored the wrongs when it was their guy. Hypocrites. By the way, I said impeach both of them.
"My fucking goodness are people stupid...in this country..."
Don't be so hard on yourself.
Should read "Former Surgeon Generals describe pressures from Bush, Clinton, and Reagan Administrations"
As much as you leftist loonies would love to slant this, it's not just Emperor Bush at fault here. Now this certainly doesn't absolve the current administration, but at least be honest.
Thanks for your sensitive understanding of the Surgeon General's predicament, but we don't know for sure if we'll be fired until we stand up to the pressure. And if we are fired, it highlights the venality of our boss. Sometimes you just gotta stand up rather than being controlled by the fear of losing the battle. Endlessly compromising important values destroys not just our courage, but our self-worth.
The Benjamin Franklin quote is "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Surely losing a job is not the end of the world.
As an aside, downshifted lifestyles are easy to maintain. Once I downshifted to get control of my financial situation, it took less courage to do the right thing on the job, because I couldn't be jerked around by economic fears.
Ahh, right. So it was Reagan's liberal agenda behind such left-wing radicals as C. Everett Koop. But of course only liberals get taken in by the alleged links between tobacco and lung cancer, right?
Wait, isn't this the same guy that says drinking is bad for you too? I'm not sure I'd trust anything this guy says...
Sam
Because pre-literate societies and some animals do dumb stuff doesn't mean we should.
Let's looks at the choices. You've got the republicans, can't vote for them, they were in favor of the war. However to vote against them is to vote for the incompetent democrats who rolled over and voted for the war too. No one else has a shot at winning, unless some celebrity decides to run as an independent and then we're really in trouble. As it stands now, we have (too much) food on the tables, roofs over our heads, and all the pr0n we want a few mouse clicks away. That the people were in favor of the war when they thought it would be easy but against after it turned out not to be is unfortunately not surprising, but shows that we have the government that we deserve. Things are going to have to get a lot worse before they can get better, and those in power are smart enough not to let things get bad enough.
Hey.... an AC not contributing to the discussion. Why am I not surprised? Since you seem to have been around for a while, why don't you log in?
I'm subtly insulting? Damn, I thought my insults were direct. I guess I need to work on that.
I'm quite happy discussing science. I have also no problem calling people on being stupid. Do you want to take a crack at this, or are you just happy making various proclamations? Judging by your complete lack of factual information, random and deliciously wrong guesses, and liberal use of insults, I'm thinking no. Go play in the freeway.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
What is it with this "liberal" insult I hear from Americans? Liberal seems to have a particularly insulting meaning in the US - the rest of us just don't understand what the hell you're going on about. What does it mean?
Liberal science!!! Yeah - non-US "liberals" across the planet are busily devouring only science that comes with this "US liberal" stamp.... not! You guys need to get your heads out of your rear-ends long enough to realise that the you are a tiny proportion of the planet's people, who largely don't give a shit about your retarded politics, except it happens to affect us a bit more than we'd like it to.
Deeply ironic on a discussion thread about the politicisation of science.
The main problem is that republicans refuse to believe *ANY* facts that contradict their beliefs. It's only after years, thousands of deaths and billions of dollars that some republicans reluctantly accept the fact that the Iraq war was a bad idea.
The claim that the issue is unsettled is ridiculous. In serious scientific circles(real scientists who are respected and are not shills) it is clear that global warming is happening and we are contributing to it. Further, it is NOT the job of the Surgeon General to misrepresent facts or lie to the public based on the president's personal beliefs or policy positions. Such an idea is quite anti-American and un-patriotic.
So when does he get impeached? What's the schedule like? Why wasn't it done yesterday?
Bah... Who pays any attention to the Surgeon General's office anyway? There's been no doubt for years that the office is totally politicized. Anyone who bases their behavior, or pays any attention whatsoever, on anything produced by the office is a complete moron. Regardless of what party is in office, it's just another megaphone for political opinion. Might as well listen to Rush Limbaugh for your medical opinions...
I may have missed something, but since when does the position of Surgeon General, an appointment concerned with medicine, overlap with earth science? Political appointees should not be going off on wild tangents, totally unconnected to their field of expertise. It sounds like this guy was too busy playing in the sandbox, and wasn't spending enough time in the office.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
"Does that answer your question?"
Yes it does, my question is, what does a blowhard with delusions about the importance of his opinion say when he's cornered after saying something stupid and needs to backpedal, but still wants to include his emotionally charged, sub-human bigotry.
I think you answered it quite clearly.
This site has nothing to do with Geek interest... its simply a platform for tinfoil and bush haters.
Unfortunately, Social Services (and by extension, the government) does not agree that tanning your kids' hides is your right and responsibility as a parent.
That's why the government has to discipline them for you, you see.
... shouldnt the title read
Surgeon General Describes Censorship From Cheney/Bush Administration
"that conservatives and Bush-defenders can only resort to a mock "hurt sensibilities" and accusations of name-calling in the light of egregious misbehavior, failed policies, and Machiavellian gumption is both a sign of complete intellectual poverty and utter bald-faced hypocrisy."
So why resort to the same behavior?
OOOH! Your argument helped ME! Sucks to know you destroyed your own attempt at an argument doesn't it?
Uh, did you read my post? My problem is that the light from "soft white" bulbs is too yellow already. And actually, I only have one regular lampshade in my whole house, thanks for asking. And it doesn't make the light any more yellow, thank goodness.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
What the fuck is wrong with you?! It certainly matters why a country goes to war!
Blar.
I've been complaining and writing letters and going to protests since 2003. NOTHING has changed.
What can I do?
It's just easier to let it go, let the Bush voters bleed out into the desert sand like they deserve.
They wanted this un-needed war, and they're mostly dying for it, so let them die.
As for the Iraqis...yeah I feel horrible...but what can I do?
Blar.
Hmm let's see...
"Main Entry: bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance "
So let's see, did you do that?
"Now, these people that you have chosen to ally yourself with have a long track record of being thieves, liars, mass murderers, anti-American religious extremists, and generally demonstrating no redeeming characteristics whatsoever."
WHY YES YOU DID!!!
"I mean is lying all you're truly capable of?"
I'm guessing this isn't you trying to be ironic.
"No, you wouldn't because I did and you didn't."
Fine then, point to one.
"Fact: The election of Reagan was the final nail in the coffin of the old Republican party."
Are you really so ignorant that you think that is a fact? By the way, YOU NEVER SAID THAT IN YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS. So now, not only are you not intelligent enough to discern the difference between "fact" and "opinion", you're making up new "facts" as well.
"There are several more facts there which you are unable to refute. Hint that's why they're *facts*"
First of all, there aren't said facts anywhere in your post. You're a liar. Second, I like very much your tactic of putting the burden of proof for your "facts" on me, but alas, you know very well it's on YOU to prove the veracity of your "facts", not on me to disprove them (especially since you're lying about their existence).
"You have nothing to back up whatever delusional positions you hold and so do nothing but whine about how people are being mean merely because they speak the truth."
I never once called anyone mean, stop lying. But then, if you stopped lying, you'd have nothing to post.
You lost, got shut up, and lied. Now you're calling me troll. Again, I don't think that's you trying to be ironic.
Post your "facts" (and not that idiotic drivel you attempted in this post, neither of your "facts" are facts by any definition of the word) then SOURCE YOUR FACTS REPUTABLY OR SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH.
I'll wait for your "facts" and sources. I suspect it will be a long wait.
So let's see, did you do that?
"Now, these people that you have chosen to ally yourself with have a long track record of being thieves, liars, mass murderers, anti-American religious extremists, and generally demonstrating no redeeming characteristics whatsoever."
WHY YES YOU DID!!!
I did? Where?
Is that not an accurate description of the current Republican party? If not, how not?
I mean really, just because you don't like the way things are does not make me a bigot simply because I'm aware of the facts.
Or shut up.
I didn't "miss" anything, you posted a statement that never appeared in your "facts" anywhere previously. I stated that. You'll notice I never said it wasn't RELEVANT, only that you never stated it before. Guess that makes YOU the stupid one huh? Reading comprehension is your friend.
"YOU NEVER SAID THAT IN YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS."
How did you misunderstand something so simple?
Source your "facts" or shut your mouth. We both know you can't do either, so I'll be interested to see what you do to avoid admitting you're a liar now.
If you read the definition, you'll see that it doesn't say anything about them being deserving of your hatred. You don't get off because you think hating them is justified.
You're a bigot regardless. See how reading for comprehension is valuable? Try it once.
As to when you displayed it, how fucking stupid are you? I posted YOUR QUOTE. Is someone ghostwriting your stuff? You should fire them because they're making you look like a bigoted ignoramus.
So, after all these replies, all you have to show for your effort is proof that you're a bigot, that you can't read very well, and that you have very little skill in differentiating between facts and opinions.
The FACT is you're a bigot. As to your "facts" I'm still waiting for your sources.
Actually, I believe that your claim is unfounded. The definition states:
"Main Entry: bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance "
I don't see where he said he hated and was intolerant towards Ron Paul. He said he wouldn't vote for him on a Red ticket. Obviously Ron Paul is a member of this group. So a bigot he is not. (Because he's doesn't hate all members of this group)
In fact, the quote you gave shows no hint of hatred or intolerance. It shows a well-founded opinion.
Nice try though.
(Would you call a Nazi hunter a bigot?)
Every single point you attempted to make is factually wrong, and not supported by his post.
"In fact, the quote you gave shows no hint of hatred or intolerance."
Bigotry doesn't require this, so you're wrong.
"It shows a well-founded opinion."
Yeah, and that part where he said
"these people that you have chosen to ally yourself with have a long track record of being thieves, liars, mass murderers, anti-American religious extremists, and generally demonstrating no redeeming characteristics whatsoever."
seems suspiciously like bigotry to me. Doesn't seem founded in anything but hatred and ignorance, and if it was a Bush supporter doing it to liberals, he'd be modded off the planet. No one cares how well founded your bigotry is, it's bigotry. No one really expects you bigots to admit you're bigots, your lack of intellectual faculties is why you're bigots in the first place.
"I don't see where he said he hated and was intolerant towards Ron Paul"
Then you're an imbecile. Did you notice the part where he judged Ron Paul based on his association with people? He made it quite clear that if X associated with Y, he would be intolerant of X because of his intolerance of Y. Can you read, or are you just really, really dumb?
Perhaps you should read the entire conversation before posting, it would have saved you from being incorrect about the points you tried to make.
What on Earth are you talking about? And all of what I posted was true. There are case examples for each one. Just because the Bush government hasn't started making mass arrests doesn't mean that the things I posted are false.
--Though, you'd be a fool to discount the possibility of mass arrests. Based on the patterns being followed by the Bush Admin, unless something changes, you'll see it.
Dollars to donuts when Al Aqeda recruits someone to do a suicide bombing in the USA, it will more likely be someone like you who hates the USA that does the suicide bombing.
Are you a Troll pretending to be insane, or are you really insane? --Because it's exactly that kind of thinking which is driving the dissolution of the U.S. Paranoia feeding the desire to control people.
And for the record, I think the U.S. is a wonderful place. I just don't like the government or the military industrial complex.
-FL
which is why some theories get the official liberal stamp of approval on them. Those that don't get the stamp are rejected by liberals. This is why modern science has many failings and why it has become political. It is also why moderates and conservatives often reject theories that have the liberal stamp of approval on them, because they are not true natural science theories but more political science theories. Many so called global warming scientists, for example, hold PHDs in political science and not natural science.
I would hope the rest of the world cares enough that liberals have polluted our sciences with junk science and crackpot theories. Modern science has become yet another religion that liberals believe in, global warming is now a religion and Al Gore is the Pope of global warming. Just like the Church of England had a scam to have people pay money to have sins forgiven to go to Heaven, global warming has the same scam, pay for your sins to be forgiven by buying carbon credits. Only who knows where the money used to buy carbon credits really goes, because it isn't regulated or accounted for anyway.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
people still have their freedoms and rights and liberties, you have yet to prove otherwise. Like I said you try to pass off opinion, speculation, and hearsay as facts and evidence and they are not the same thing.
As far as newspapers go, it depends on the editors of the newspapers based on what they print. Usually they print opinion and speculation instead of facts and evidence. You are more the fool for believing everything you read. I read everything with a grain of salt and I use critical thinking to weed out the opinions and speculations and deduce the facts and evidence from observations and knowledge of the law and constitution. Liberals control most newspapers and news organizations anyway and so they are biased against Bush.
You have not even stated one single fact, and have shown no evidence. I can easily see through your illusion world that you live in like it was made out of glass. Ever since birth you have been spoon-fed bullshit and accept it as the truth. In fact, everything you think you know is wrong. I am quite amazed that you, with such a low intellect, and thinking with your emotions, even made it out of high school much less college. I'll bet it was a liberal college that had a policy of any answer is the right answer as long as you feel good about it? Give us an oral report Fantastic Lad, "Bush is Hitler!" Ok Fantastic Lad as long as you feel good about that, we'll give you an A+. Yet if you knew what Godwin's Law was about, you'd know that you automatically failed in this thread.
I am 38 years old, I served in the military during the Gulf War, I went to college and graduated with honors, I use logic and critical thinking on a day to day basis to weed through the crap and bullshit that the media mass produces to figure out the real truth. I have an IQ of 237, and I am obviously way smarter than you. I am not a liberal or conservative, I am a moderate, yet you don't even know the difference anyway, as you live in your black and white world, when it is really shades of gray and multi colors too.
... where else it is obligatory, mate?
Not the UK btw, and I don't think neither Germany, France or Spain.
Forced voting is a bad idea. If the citizenry can be bothered to vote then they deserve the politicians they get.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.