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Journalist Test Drives The Pain Ray Gun
Fantastic Lad writes to tell us that journalist Michael Hanlon recently got the opportunity to experience the Army's new not-so-secret weapon, dubbed "Silent Guardian". The Silent Guardian is essentially (even though the creators prefer you not refer to it as such) a ray gun, emitting a focused beam of radiation similar to your microwave tuned to a specific frequency to stimulate human nerve endings. "It can throw a wave of agony nearly half a mile. Because the beam penetrates skin only to a depth of 1/64th of an inch, it cannot, says Raytheon, cause visible, permanent injury. But anyone in the beam's path will feel, over their entire body, the agonizing sensation I've just felt on my fingertip. The prospect doesn't bear thinking about. "
Arr! This be a popular thing to consider against terrorists, insurgents and other bilge, but what of when a swab asks Sen. Kerry one too many questions?
"Blow me down, Senator, but why did ye let the scallywag take Ohio uncontested?"
"Belay the questioning, ye poxy bilge-bellied picaroon!"
*FFFNNZZZZZOOWWNT*
"Yaaaarrr!"
Sounds funny, do ye think? But by Davy Jone's locker, it doesn't bode us at all well when bloomin' cops be using it on the populace for crowd control or to force lubbers to obey their commands.
"Arr, get out of the vehicle and make way for boardin', swabbie!"
"Aye, but what of me constitutional rights against unreasonable looting and pillaging?"
*FFFNNZZZZZOOWWNT*
"Yaaaarrr!"
Aye a sobering thought. And will yer video camera help ye then? And what of the other wrong people layin' their mitts on this terrible new technology by way of the interweb -- ye don't like how a match is going? Give the swab in goal an itch he'd claw out with his own hook for just a second for the ball to pass into the net. Aye. People already are misusing lasers, what of these? No visible injury, sounds perfect for torture.
What next, use this on pirates? Well I'll be scuppered!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
John Titor predicted that the reason for the development of such weapons was for use against the general population of the United States.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
In a world where the Taser is no longer considered a self defense weapon, but rather an enforcement/compliance tool, I am frightened to think what will happen when this technology makes its way out of the military sector. Every tough guy cop with a chip on his shoulder will have the power to cause limitless pain, and could justify it by saying "it causes no injury, and it prevents potential harm to innocents".
There is something wrong when the general population begins to fear the police, and I think that is starting to happen in the United States.
I mean, even if you could get it mounted on a frikkin shark, they wouldn't survive long enough out of water for it to be used for crowd control.
So, exactly how hard is to to wear some clothing over your whole body that will block this non-penetrating radiation?
...oh the pain.
Didn't Frank Herbert describe something just like this in Dune? Pain through nerve induction?
12:50 - press return.
Any amount for violence, little for making relationships.
The least sophisticated way of relating to other people is through violence.
How nice, yet another pain-inducing tool that leaves no marks. I'm sure they will put this to quick use at Gitmo.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
I want one! Any project how to's on the web yet on a make your own?
Or should it be 'tinfoil body armor'? Seriously, this is just going to start a desert arms race for who can stand to wear more body armor, either the bullet proof kind or the ray proof kind. Then, cue the 'armor defeating rays' which do actual permanent damage to those who don't happen to have ANY protection on. It brings a scary new prospect to the term 'collateral damage'.
Move along or be pain-rayed.
A finger? He should have went with the whole-body experience.
Excuse me while I don my tin foil full body suit
I wish to remain anomalous
I wonder if this will be the next iteration of the Taser problem, specifically, the fact that it leaves no marks and is designed not to permanently injure ends up lowering the threshold for using it.
With a gun, a trained operator understands that the person he's shooting at will probably die, so everything better be absolutely correct before employing it or he's going to jail.
With a Tazer, the trained operator will use it more casually than a gun because the price of being wrong is so much lower.
With the pain ray, it's even lower. Our current legal environment suggests that this will end up being used to break up unpopular demonstrations or groupings even more casually than tear gas, specifically because the physical evidence and chance of permanent injury is so much lower.
What effect will this have on the democratic process? Used in conjunction with modern artifacts like "designated free speech zones", this could be crippling. There's no way to prevent an advance, our duty as citizens is to be aware of the dangers and be ready to speak out against them if they transpire.
Arrr sounds like the scurvy gov'ment dogs be usin Tesla's Death Ray in smaller form factor. Keep me parrot away from that thing! Arrr!!
The game.
Another piece of Star Trek lore enters the real world.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Now if we could only mount it on sharks...
it consists of blaring Chris Crocker's YouTube performance at loud volumes through very big speakers.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
We all know that heat coagulates protein. Just boil an egg. 1/64" of an inch of intense heating is enough to cook your cornea. Instant cataract. Out of all this "testing" with screaming "volunteers" I haven't really seen any conclusive evidence come forth that this wont do eye injury to a person. And we all know how "non-letal" (read "less than lethal") weapons get overused.
-dh
Secret deals for largely secret projects costing largely secret amounts, and the taxpayer pays everything, blindly, or goes to jail. It's effectively a dictatorship of the Military-Industrial Complex, as President Eisenhower warned.
If it really does only penentrate the top 1/64th then wet or oily cloathing should stop it.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
OK.. So this just means that the person lines they clothes with aluminum foil and problem solved... Yes, the aluminum foil will get hot, but it should dissipate it quite well... Once again, every weapon has its strengths and weaknesses. The key is to understand the technology...
The operator was heard saying: "What did this do to you? Tell me. And remember, this is for posterity, so be honest. How do you feel?"
No, the table-top demonstration model is the one that's intended for use in the field. For values of "field" ranging towards "dark basements in former Soviet bloc countries, to whom we've paid good money for plausible deniability".
Unless the "production" model is composed of an array of those table-top demonstration models (and to give Raytheon the benefit of the doubt, it might be), there are very few military applications to even try to scale the device down to "trade-show booth" form factor.
Either way, I'm glad I'm long Raytheon. From WW2-era radar stations, to the microwave oven, to new and emerging markets including crowd control and individual torture, manipulation of RF energy has been a consistent profit generator.
I would like to take a moment to applaud this new direction the US Army has taken as of late. Nothing restores my faith in American more quickly than a standing policy of systematically punishing every journalist within reach, with any and all exotic weaponry available.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
This article is about 15% facts and 85% speculation and opinions. Does anyone have an article a little more technical, and, well, news-ish? What is the power requirement? What sizes are available? Are there plans for private sale? I would rather carry a pocket-sized pain-gun than a little pepper sprayer.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
you people out there in the army are probably going to get a visit shortly from Intergalactic Council for a piece of mind on compliance and galactic standards.
mark my words.
Read radical news here
These would be a great accessory for a John Kerry speech.
A .45ACP slug in the stomach?
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Who wants to bet they're going to use this as a torture device? Unlike the Taser, this doesn't even provide an immobilization function, it just causes pain with no other obvious signs of harm.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
Suppose you're a suicide bomber wanting to clear the guards away from the entrance to a military base. This could be just the ticket. Dope yourself up on pain medication (or cover yourself in tinfoil) and then rig a simple microwave emitter (at just the right pain frequency) to your car.
For most defensive purposes (e.g. guarding an embassy) other technologies (e.g. walls) are likely to be better but this pain ray some real potential as an offensive weapon for combatants who are desperate enough to disregard ethical considerations.
dear god, someone tag this gom jabbar
Corrupt lobby to pass law declaring it illegal to wear metallic micro-wave reflecting clothes in
Common, they already made it illegal to wear a gaz-mask during manifestations in some countries. What do you expect ?
{Insert your favorite "if-you-have-nothing-to-hide-you-have-no-reason-to-wear-one" excuse hehe}
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
It seems to me that they were created in one.
So let me get this straight:
The beam has the ability to travel a half of a mile and still be effective, but only travels 1/64th of an inch below the surface of the skin? What happens when your standing 10 feet in front of this thing?
NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
I enjoy that movie!
it says "it cannot, says Raytheon, cause visible, permanent injury."
That seems an awfully calculated thing to say... so that means they have found it to cause INVISIBLE permanent injury then?
Now that every conceivable source of debt has been tapped by our citizens and the WTO riots are on the way, our overlords will now be able to efficiently silence the masses whining for workers rights, education, and infrastructure. The vast riches that the rich have accumulated can now be safely trickled down!
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Make the military and police forces of the world stick with good ol' firearms! The more high-powered (and hollow-nosed or dum-dum'ed) the better! Let's keep that number of "open casket" ceremonies to a minimum. While we're at it, we should require all police weapons to have a "full automatic" setting (to keep pace with the military, of course).
I wonder if Westinghouse had to put up with this sort of &*%)(* from Edison? After all, DC (as Edison clearly demonstrated) was non-lethal, whereas AC is decidedly lethal! Think of all the poor, innocent men who will be executed because the governments of the world have access to such technology as Alternating Current.
Nope. I don't see a problem here. The boys at Gitmo have already figured out how to run AC from the wall socket to a man's, er, sockets for pain with minimal residual injury - and we haven't even mentioned drugs yet. I just don't see this being the new Marquis De Sade's favorite toy - not enough blistering and bruising for any visual appeal.
Score another prediction for science fiction.
The quote is from the "Star Trek" episode "Mirror, Mirror."
Any predictions on how long before somebody builds an agony booth?
"The agony booth is a most effective means of discipline."--Spock
Link.
Mike Scanlon
Coincidentally, it was Raytheon who invented the microwave oven. They sold commercial products under the Amana brand.
Yes ... Gom Jabbar.
I thought he was a center for Portland.
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
Didn't Frank Herbert describe something just like this in Dune? Pain through nerve induction?
Aye'm quite of a mind it was Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson following up his works that would be the causin' of such pain as a cat o' nine tails all the afternoon!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The thing is, this wave in tuned to a frequency targeting nerve endings - so it might well not be nearly powerful enough to boil anything, much less your eye.
That said I was thinking that anything that sent this much pain coursing through you might well lead to more harmful effects than a tazer. That much pain would have to be quite a shock to your body which would probably trigger a lot of reactions as a result.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You are missing the point. For such regimes, this device would not be so attractive for crowd control as it would be for torture. Let's see...cheap and easy to reproduce, causes agony, doesn't leave marks. Perfect for extracting confessions and discrediting dissidents!
Come to think of it, considering how trigger-happy some cops around here seem to be with tasers, I'd hate to see what they would do with a device like this if they ever got someone they didn't like (accused rapist, molester, cop killer, smart-mouthed teenager) in the lock-up.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
Now we can torture people without the inconvenience of a trial and they won't be able to prove a thing.
I suppose waterboarding, while generally safe, is too much a risk in this era of bleeding heart snoops. You know, the ones that would claim we can't do whatever we want to whomever we want whenever we want.
Oh the pride of being an American under the Bush administration.
Cheers.
Does anyone remember the pain/torture stick from Stargate?
This is probably one of the next incarcerations of this device, for use by prison guards and Gitmo/Garden Plot types.
Will my tinfoil hat protect me?
Same with this... they'll say its a less lethal way of incapacitating enemy troops, or maybe quelling a riot. But eventually since its "safe," they'll start using it on peaceful protests that got out of the "free speech zone" and dangerously close to coming within cable news camera range.
This space available.
Corner cube reflectors.
Big ones.
(Okay, five words).
-- Alastair
And jokes aside, the risks are higher than just getting hurt a little.
1. 1/64th of an inch seems sufficient to cause serious and possibly permanent eye damage. This is an area-wide weapon, it is not selective about its targets or which body part it is targeting.
2. Exposure to extreme levels of pain (especially suddenly) can also lead to a seizure or heart attack. If the pain is extremely strong, it may incapacitate the target (ever hurt yourself so badly you can't do ANYTHING except perhaps scream?), meaning the people can't escape the target zone, exposing themselves to even more pain.
3. If the authorities decide to use the weapon against a crowd, it is natural to presume some have a higher pain tolerance then others, and if the weapons is used until all or the majority of the crowd is quelled, the weaker-tolerance people will be exposed to unnecessary (and with potential serious consequences) levels and duration of pain.
4. I'm not even going to the legal definitions of physical torture in and by itself...
I'm not saying it shouldn't be used under any circumstances whatsoever, but it seems that it should be classified as deadly or almost deadly force ("deadly" in most jurisdictions includes "capable of producing grievous bodily harm).
Even the story the other day about the use of a Taser (which is also an almost-deadly-force weapon, with documented fatalities) being used where the suspect posed absolutely no danger and could have been subdued without it). This device can lead to the same consequences of a Taser, but instead of being used on one person, it affects hundreds, with no way to observe the effects on each single person and adjust the device power accordingly.
Are there cases where use of this device is legitimate? Maybe, for example if you are rushed by an angry mob and you legitimately feel your life to be in danger if you don't take immediate action. But given our record for indiscriminate and excessive use of next-to-lethal force (rubber bullets, Tasers, etc.) against peaceful demonstrations, non-violent action, cases where safer alternatives are available, and with "just for kicks" being a legitimate reason, I certainly wouldn't bet on this device to be safe in the hands of those who use it. This device is NOT a valid substitute for a water cannon or tear gas, and if in a given situation you are not justified to use live firearms, you also shouldn't be justified to use something like this.
If (or, sadly speaking, when) it will be classified as a "safe, non-lethal" weapon (just as the Taser already has been) well, we will be one mile higher up Shit Creek.
They'd be stupid to develop a weapon like this without the protective gear at the same time. I just wonder if they named it an Edgar suit.
My Hello World is 512 bytes. But it's also a valid Fat12 boot sector, Fat12 file reader, and Pmode routine.
...why is the military spending millions (MILLIONS) of dollars developing technology that is not effective on the battlefield, but very effective at oppressing a civilian population?
Protesters: Break out the tinfoil!
Ok now your just trolling.
In other news, us senate strikes down habeas corpus.. again!
oh brave new world with these devices in it!
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Except for the pain it dishes out, it's balanced out by pleasure.
Or you could see its predecessor in action on Monty Python's "Killer Joke".
There are some things that even the military won't use, and Britney Spears' voice is one of them.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
It is as chilling as a hammer, which can do worse than this in the wrong hands. The key is, making sure the rules for use of something this powerful and able to affect so many are clear and violations are dealt with fairly (for the victims).
Consider the real-world scenario they raise in the article:
""In Iraq, there was a situation when combatants had taken media as human shields. The battalion commander told me there was no way of separating combatants from non-combatants without lethal force," Mr Svitak tells me."
Stuff like this happens all the time. Would you really prevent the development of technologies that can solve tricky problems like this and bring people alive out of hostage situations, just because sometime it might be used incorrectly against a group of people with no lasting effect?
Far worse technologies than this are going to be invented going forward, so we must learn how to deal with things like it from a sociological standpoint rather than stick our heads in the sand, just calling it chilling and hoping it goes away.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
As to permanent damage, what about when it is used for an extended time? This could happen when it is used for torture, which it will be, or when used to cover a large area and people cannot escape and are trapped in the agony zone or cannot move for some reason. I suspect people with go insane, tear themselves apart, and have other horrendous self-inflicted injuries if they cannot get out of it's path in a certain amount of time.
Nah, it's the one-two combo. Some care but are powerless, whereas the others don't care--ironically making those that do care powerless!
More seriously, it's very easy for a person to off-handedly say to a pollster that they don't approve of Congress; it's quite another for that person to know what Congress is doing in the first place. That disapproval is more probably an expression of general malaise, distrust, or cynicism towards the government in general than it is any sort of appraisal of Congress as an acting body. I'd say of those polled (if past stats hold up) barely a third of respondents even know who their reps in Congress are, probably barely a half could name any rep. Most Americans would be hard pressed to name one piece of legislation passed in the last session, and even fewer to correlate that piece of legislation with its supporters and detractors correctly. Those that care are outnumbered by those that don't, and in that circumstance it is awfully difficult to take statistics that purport to show a true measure of the American people's approval or disapproval of Congress with any more than a grain of salt.
More evidence--in case you needed it--even when Congress' approval rating drops into the doldrums, as it has on several occasions, re-election rates for seated members rarely drops below 90%.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
Well way back in the day, we (the royal we, you know, the editorial we that encompasses any nation applicable) developed nukes with the idea that having them would be a deterrent for war- after all, who would attack someone when they have a bunch of nukes even if you're pretty sure they won't use `em for fear of nuclear fallout... and now we as humans are battling each other over the idea that one group of people might obtain this technology or not and may figure out how to use it violently we meet this with violence.
Now we are developing pain-based weapons to subdue large groups of people, most likely riot control, who would want to riot when you know that a wave of pain is headed your way even though they may not want to use it for fear of the weapon being turned on themselves... and someday these weapons will probably be used on the general populace of nations over the idea that one group of people might rise up and overthrow another with violence which we meet with violence.
I'm no philosopher and my brain is more geared toward logical-problem-solving than politics, anthropology or philosophy but I can see the issues that this will cause at least in a vague way.
After nuclear weapons were created to destroy nations a different kind of enemy to the majority of the world, decentralized and yet, organized, appeard on the playing field which nuclear weapons would be useless against. What is someone going to do, nuke the birth nation of every terrorist? A new enemy to the makers of this weapon, one impervious to this weapon will come about. Soley because this weapon was invented. Not an improvement of armament or weaponry but one that pain is irrelevant to.
Sound ridiculous? It should and it's true.
Besides keeping kids off my lawn, I can think of many useful applications in the area of animal and pest control.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
You know, the funny thing is, even the most hardened dictatorships only used "kalashnikovs for crowd control" when things really got out of hand. I know of at least one Eastern European revolution where the oppressive communist government first tried to hose them with water and whatnot, and we're talking revolt against the government there.
Compare it to the neverending stream of Taser stories from the USA. People got tasered occasionally as torture (people which had _already_ been restrained) or because a cop got a chip on his shoulder, for reasons as ridiculous as:
- asking too many questions at a political rally (see the recent story)
- being at a library without their library card (guy got tasered _repeatedly_ after he had already accepted to leave)
- diabetic guy in a medical emergency calls 911 for an ambulance, cops show up first and taser him in his bed (apparently one guy sick enough to be stuck in bed was considered dangerous enough to the cops to warrant use of the taser)
Etc, etc, etc.
Dearie, get this: even China, and even the fucking NKVD under Stalin, wouldn't have used a gun in _those_ situation. Yes, China did shoot some of the people demonstrating in Tiananmen square against the government, but not even in their darkest hour would they consider shooting a sick guy for calling an ambulance.
Effectively the idea that a taser is "non-lethal" has lowered the bar to ludicriously low extremes. It's not replacing the use of guns, as if you were to do something that warrants shooting at you, they'll _still_ shoot at you. (E.g., if you pulled a gun at a cop, I do believe they won't draw the tasers.) It just created a whole new possibility to inflict pain (again, sometimes repeatedly) on someone for minor misdemeanors or just for disliking him or just for fun. It's not replacing guns, it's _in_ _addition_ to guns, for stuff where you previously wouldn't even _think_ of drawing a gun.
Sadder still: for stuff where even China or the USSR wouldn't have even dreamed of using a gun on someone.
So the question isn't whether you'd rather get the ray or a round. For any stuff that would previously warrant getting a round, you'll still get a round. Only now you'll get the ray for everything else. Whop-de-do, big improvement there.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
But what about invisible permanent injury?
Can we use it on that kid in Florida?
"Don't pain ray me, bro!"
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
In order to prevent it from being used on crowds, a bunch of people will need to tie or handcuff themselves together. When the beam hits the crowd, the bound together crowd will most likely cause damage to themselves. (The pain overrides rational thought and people hurt themselves when trying to get away.)
Since the beam _will_ cause real harm to a "bonded" crowd, any government or police force with a modicum of conscience (or fear of lawsuits) will be unable to use the beam.
I admit after looking at the picture I didn't even bother reading the article. My only thought was a futureweapons episode where the host put his entire body in the line of fire of a huge machine which sounds very similiar, hey look at that, its on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_1KKtmh1L4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak2j9x9Ts_k
metallic micro-wave reflecting clothes
That phrase is very interesting, since it would raise some questions about the effects about being near someonw wearing a 'tinfoil suit'. Would the raidiation be actually reflected? Would it be reflected back at the device user? Would wearing metal cause arcing like a microwave oven?
I don't doubt that this divice will eventually find its way into the hands of the cops, and to the torture chambers of immoral governments. I also expect that it will just as quickly end up in the hands of private individuals, who will be the biggest menace.
If it is really microwave frequency radiation, that would imply that it was invisible, and probably silent. You could hide in a bush and torment cops/neighbors/annoying dogs/children/elderly people/black people/hate groups/rich people/poor people/etc. without much risk of getting caught. The social reprecussions of having a portable silent ranged torture device seem...severe.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Dune Chapter 1
"Enough," the old woman muttered. "Kull wahad! No woman-child ever withstood that much. I must've wanted you to fail." She leaned back, withdrawing the gom jabbar from the side of his neck. "Take your hand from the box, young human, and look at it."
He fought down an aching shiver, stared at the lightless void where his hand seemed to remain of its own volition. Memory of pain inhibited every movement. Reason told him he would withdraw a blackened stump from that box.
"Do it!" she snapped.
He jerked his hand from the box, stared at it astonished. Not a mark. No sign of agony on the flesh. He held up the hand, turned it, flexed the fingers.
"Pain by nerve induction," she said. "Can't go around maiming potential humans. There're those who'd give a pretty for the secret of this box, though." She slipped it into the folds of her gown.
You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
John Titor didn't predict the development of the ray gun any more than we can predict the outcome of WWII. For him it was history - fact. *
* Not that I'm claiming he exists.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
AKA Project X, AKA Project Xylophone.
They're talking out of thier ass on this when they talk about the injuries. The nature of this weapon is horrendous enough that it's impossible to do due dilligence testing on it. We'll learn of it's horrible side effects after it goes into large scale use.
Incidentally, I have to say that I've touched countless 12V DC (automotive) systems and felt nothing. Even a 9V battery has to be touched to a conductive surface (the tongue, for example) in order to feel it. My dry hand has made contact with "hot grounds" (maybe 20-30V AC, probably 12-18V RMS) that made me squeak plenty. Any form of electricity will kill in sufficient quantity, but AC is decidedly a deadlier beast.
Heh, I thought you said Neurotic Wimp.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Have a peek at the article. It's a small box that looks somewhat like a computer power-supply. Sure, it's too big for holster-duty yet, but compared to the initial version I saw (which I assume is for making sweeps of a crowd at a larger distance) it's definitely gone down in size.
This is one of the most well thought out responses to the whole "Taser" thing I have ever heard. I must admit, I never thought about it like this before.
It seems so obvious and true stated like this. Of course, this is *exactly* how Tasers and other *Non-Lethal* weapons will be used.
It's really scary.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
"must be equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death."
does this count?
This would have to be cheaper than fencing the Mexican border.
Namaste
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. THE PAIN!!
I knew it would come in handy one day!
...because this very weapon was featured on that weapons show on the Discovery Channel (you know, the one hosted by that insane, ex-military, bald guy?). And he didn't wimp out and subject only one finger to the pain, he took it from the full weapon mounted on the back of a vehicle! At any rate, this is old news.
Perhaps those items increase the painfulness of the beam? Was there a reason given? In either case I don't think a tinfoil hat is going to be a good defense against this, and you should probably be wary of going commando when wearing pants with a metal fly...
If they can make a smaller version with the battery in a backpack, I want one. Sounds like the perfect way to get my Christmas shopping done in a reasonable amount of time regardless of how crowded the stores are.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
If this thing were tuned to induce pleasure rather than pain, then everyone who is currently in favor of its use would be against it, and vice versa.
<Complete your profile by adding a signature!>
Google "library tasering". It was at UCLA not that long ago. There are probably thousands of articles about it. I pick a particular one less because it would be difficult than because each one has their own unique spin on the issue and it's easier to let you choose your source of choice.
Here is the video on YouTube, which is as close to a primary source as you can get. Basically the guy got asked to leave when he couldn't produce a student ID, and started arguing (maybe, allegedly) with the cops, who repeatedly tasered him. The tasering was less for not having the ID than it was for being 'uppity,' at least IMO. That's how they tend to get used; you shoot your mouth off? That's a taserin'. Don't do what you're told? That's a taserin'. Look at a cop the wrong way? Well, you get the idea.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
How long 'till some some "bad guys" (ie terrorists) procure/build one and just turn it on in say .. a major airport?
Another thing that makes me curious. 1/64th inch (0.4 mm) worth of skin. Would something like say latex paint block it then? Would make it perfect for bankrobberies or the like. Wear a few of these, be painted in latex for camoflage and just simply wander in, take what you need and leave them in the bank to keep them from alarming anyone.
Oh, and if anyone's interested, I know the pefect way to disrupt ALL air traffic in the US or most other countries without having to highjack any planes at all.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
If you are wrongfully zapped, just stand next to a roadsign. The cats-eye reflectors will likely reflect much of the energy back at the sender, much like they reflect headlights. The wavelengths are probably different, but it sounds like "close" is close enough with this thing.
I'm bringing a mirror.
Get extra points for the Next Gen reference...or at least you should. ;)
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
But this is not true. Torture relies just as much on fear of death or permanent injury as it does on pain. I do not believe a pain-only device would make an effective torture device. Read a book like Bravo-Two-Zero, for an idea of what the torture was like practiced by Iraqis against coalition POW's in the first Iraq war; and more importantly, what the men who are able to resist it are like. They said they tested it on "hardened marines," and they couldn't withstand it more than a couple seconds. I'd like to see how Delta or SAS guys would do against it.
You don't really think this will be made available to the people in general. It will be (quickly) classified as not a "gun" so not subject to the second amendment, and anyone possessing one will be happily treated to a bout of pain and jailed.
It's gonna be coming in handy...
The potential for focusing is rather worrying. Imagine that someone could incapacitate individuals in a crowd without any of the others feeling anything. You could shut up reporters in the White House press room and no one would believe that anything had happened. Do it strongly enough and you could permanently discourage anyone from reporting or questioning. Or in a protest, you could take out the loudest people and nobody would know that anything untoward had happened. Gotta give it to them, this is one of the neatest bits of political control invented. Time to invest. And hide.
Quite the contrary will happen: once it becomes mainstream, riot police will be delighted to use it. They fire water cannons and tear gas at bonded crowds too, don't they? Never underestimate the sadistic streaks of human nature. Give them a weapon to inflict pain, they'll use it. And since our countries are slowly but inexorably morphing into police states, and these weapons are accelerating this downward spiral, we're headed to a painful future.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
This weapon is designed to work not against invading armies, but against angry citizens. Through most of recent history, governments have been wary of angering their own populations for fear of triggering citizen revolutions. A government cannot effectively use lethal weapons on its own population in any widespread way, because those citizens make the state function. Thus, there are some things that governments simply will not do, because of the risk of a popular uprising.
With weapons like this pain gun, the balance of power is tipped sharply in favor of governments. Governments will be able to use weapons like this against their own people, without creating rebel martyrs. The immediate effects of this gun on an individual are horrible, but temporary. No disfiguring injuries to point to as proof of the government's inhumanity. Just a fleeting moment of pain, that will continue to exist only in a person's memory. These pain guns are a far more effective tool of subjugation than machine guns.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
It won't leave a mark.
and I'm not even thinking about what they can do to me from 6 blocks away.
I'm much more concerned with some one using this device on me durring an "interrogation"
how long could you take the feeling of being ON FIRE, befor you admited that you had in-fact taken the Lindburg baby and shot JFK.
worst of all, they aren't going to take you to the medic when they finnish. You're not hurt. Quit your crying and go back to your cell.
Cops can beat me, turn the dogs on me, gas, choke and burn me. These things all end up with me in front of a nurse who can witness them.
or dead....
-- Sig under construction...
What? It's not high enough in power to actually burn, but it causes the nerves in your skin to register burning pain?
See, now that's funny. . .
Cuz, I thought that low power EM couldn't affect the human nervous system. --You know, that the results reported by studies which examined the effects of low power EM radiation on the human body and brain were really just ludicrous phantasms concocted by crack pot scientists who deserve to be snickered at by everybody in the real world who lives in comfortable certainty that the telecommunications industry would never tell a fib.
At least, this is what I have been told a few hundred times or more whenever I have said, "Uh, the human body is made mostly of electrolyte, and there's all these studies which strongly suggest that a host of weird things happen to the nervous system when it is exposed. Maybe Cell Phones aren't such a grand idea. What other effects are they having on our centers of awareness?"
--That tin foil is beginning to look better and better, isn't it? --I sometimes wonder if the Tin Foil hat joke became ubiquitous precisely because it might in fact be one way to avoid neural tampering by the kinds of people who build Pain Rays. (Well, hats would hardly be practical, since you'd have to have a grounding wire attached to your beanie, but the point is metaphorical anyway; the larger issue being one of awareness regarding the dangers presented by EM is the first step toward avoiding subjugation through those means. To laugh and cry, "Tin Foil Hat" means you reject the very idea that there is anything going on, which in turn opens people up to control.)
The best way to control a populace is to make it self-denying, self-loathing, and self-limiting. If everybody is scared to step beyond certain boundaries through social consensus which you have set in place, then you control them, and they don't even recognize the fact, and you don't have to put up any walls. They think they are free when really they are dancing to your tune.
What ring tone does your cell phone play?
-FL
And once I do, I can't wait to get within 1/2 mile of anyone that OK'd the use of this device on humans.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
Rig your microwave oven to work with door off and you have something equally lethal (probably short range). The fact that we've not weaponized Xray, Microwave, etc technology (well, at least at this scale) is surprising.
And as with all weapons, there will be countermeasures. Since these are "specifically tuned" for nerve endings, one could build a suit that reflected at these frequencies and thus you have a crowd-wearing random dispersal reflector. Not unlike the use of gas in combat.
I'm wondering if skin numbing agents can fight the effects of this ray. Not that I'm volunteering.
Methinks that this will be considered a weapon that breaks Geneva Convention guidelines. But it'll probably take a war to decide that first, as history proves.
"Your agonizer, please..."
Music - www.richardmac.com
One of Star Trek's more disturbing ideas is about to come to life...
If this is microwave radiation, corner reflectors will send it back the way it came. Since the wavelength is short, you could use many small reflectors rather than one unwieldy large one.
Curiously enough the word I have to type in is waffle, which is what the surface of your suit will need to look like!
I didn't believe it either at first
Wasn't it Asimov who introduced the idea of the neuron whip as a means to ensure compliance? It's scary we've come down this. What a great way to force people to work on the fields, like they used to in the past. Or in sweat shops somewhere in China... Being lazy? Sweep 'em all broadly one second or so, that'll teach them!
I'm glad to be old enough not to see this happen in my lifetime (or be affected by it should it happen). But young people will have a helluva struggle to turn back the clock and repel this.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
Yeah, it's his finger sustaining that much pain... what's your point?
Go hold your finger on a hot stove top and see what face you make...
You actually get Insightful for comparing tasered people in a democracy to dead people in dictatorships.
what next? Will you compare not having a PS3 with HDTV to living in subsaharian africa?
In case people who modded him Insightful don't notice, this isn't supposed to be Funny. this is sad and depressing...
I don't feel like it...
But only if every citizen is allowed to carry an automatic rifle.
for the editors over at Ray Gun Revival magazine.... :-)
My God, the paranoia runs deep here...
Just to be sure when you go to a demonstration that your buddy is big enough to hide behind....
;)
Hmm, I should start selling mylar umbrellas to WTO protesters perhaps?
I wonder if mylar or somesuch is enough. Everyone bring a bunch of balloons and pass them up front, maybe everyone gets arrested for bringing the pres a balloon bouquet
Oh well, at least they'll give the rock throwers something to aim at besides storefronts so it IS useful...
How did this get tagged tortured? It should be tagged gracious. burning feeling or dead you choose. People need to wake up and grow up.
Clearly, just like tasers, this will cause some fatalities.
However, there's another issue here: Pain is mental. When you get hit with a taser, your body spasms, that's actually a muscle response to an electrical impulse. But here, it's just "fluttering nerve endings" which will cause the illusion of pain.
There are people who just disconnect from pain. I don't care about a bunch of "hardened marines", that just means they're used to pain, not immune to pain. I know I'm going to sound like a metaphysics nut-job, but there are people way beyond a bunch of regular marines.
I'm sure some zen monk will have a youtube video in 5 years where he just walks through the ray and turns off the device, plus there's no mention of the effect with people on drugs, what happens if I don't feel pain?
This may be the whole fatal flaw to the system, it's incurring pain as if pain were something real.
Previously with crowd control you had to be there, looking at the crowd if not interacting with it. If a few grandmas were in the crowd- by choice or by accident- you knew it. If the "bad" crowd walked by families with small children having a picnic in the park, you'd know that you're about to tear-gas or water-cannon mothers with babies.
At a half mile away, police in Brooklyn (on one side of the East River) could do crowd control for the edge of Manhattan. One guy on the top of the Empire State Building could stampede a crowd on the avenues below. From that distance people look like- and could be thought of as- ants.
Does it have a self-destruct mode for if the device gets stolen? Do they think that bad guys won't ever get their hands on them to stampede crowds as a terrorist act? With two of these devices at a stadium, or any other location with edges and drop-offs, two terrorists could make people jump over balconies to get away from the unbearable pain.
Repressive governments will also find it a handy tool for proving that a dissident was shot for violently resisting arrest. They'll even be able to video it: "See, we ordered him to lie down with his hands over his head- you can hear us saying it over and over. But instead he chose to run towards the guards. They had no choice but to shoot." or "See, we told them to sit down, and instead they jumped off of the ship into the ocean."
It'll be mighty fun when, in court, there can be found no evidence that the weapon was abused... simply because it doesn't actually 'do' anything. Roll on even more police abuse of 'non-lethal' weaponry.
YES! I'm looking forward to this one. I cant wait until our beloved government start blasting those pesky citizens among us who want silly things like freedom and civil rights!
I'll solute and i promise to sing the National Anthem as loud and as proud as i can pretend.
HAIL AMERICA... Fuck off.
"You survived the Fire Swamp, so you must be very brave. But nobody withstands The Machine."
Would you be charged with assaulting an officer if you deflected the beam back to the source?
If a repressive regime started using these on their own citizens, other countries
might decide to build and supply the resistance with cheap man-portable missiles
which take advantage of the bright microwave beam for guidance...
>;k
1/64" of an inch of intense heating is enough to cook your cornea
True.. But if this is radio/microwave based the cornea is probably NOT going to absorb much....
I would expect much of the waves would directly heat the retina of the eye (if aimed toward it).
Which would seem to cause one of two possibilities:
1) Your retina gets cooked, you go permanently blind instantly (upon a direct pulse to the eye).
2) I'm guessing the retina has no pain receptors.... Overstimuling the retina might cause (painless) damage and probably very strange visual sensations. This can't be good....
Losing a few nerves on arm/leg skin is one thing... Eye/brain damage is a bit different and probably difficult to prove. (No, your eyesight was never as good as you claim (20/20), we the raygun didn't damage it).
I've only had 3-4 physicals, and I've never seen an optomitrist (bad spelling, eye doctor). Since my eyesight was better than the minimum for 20/20 it would be difficult for me to pr ove any degradation. Plus I don't have the health records anymore or know who the doctors were (its been a while). I suspect many people are like me in this regard.
And what about people who have metal implants as a result of surgery? (e.g. from broken bone, etc)...
If they really want to convince us that this thing is safe, they should do the following:
1) Sedate the CEO and CFO of Raytheon, and possibly pain-blocking drugs.
2) Fire the full-size raygun at them for 5 minutes continously.
3) See what happens to them over the next few years/months.
Worked in a Burger King many years ago. One of the microwave ovens had a defective off switch in the latching mechanism. I opened the oven, and microwaved my right index finger, specifically the knuckle. It only took a second, but it hurt in comprehensive ways, and once the door was fully open, the microwaves were off. The full spectrum pain stopped instantly. It was not a burn, as the RF was only a split second burst. Boy did this hurt. The inside of my knuckle hurt....and stopped. I can only imagine a full body hit.......shades of the "Agonizer" from the mirror image Star Trek universe (TOS).
I doubt that there's a "pleasure nerve" that could be so easily stimulated, but Niven had fun with that idea in Ringworld (1970)...
"You understand that I will use the tasp every time you force me to. I will use it if attempt to use violence too often, or if you startle me too much; you will soon become dependent upon the tasp; if you kill me, you will still be ignobly bound by the tasp itself."
"Very astute," said Speaker. "Brilliantly unorthodox tactics. I will trouble you no more."
"The puppeteer is right," said Speaker. "I would not risk the tasp again. Too many jolts of pleasure would leave me his willing slave. I, a kzin, enslaved to a herbivore"
in the sense that Mussolini used it, does not mean what you think it means. The word "corporation" did not mean "commercial enterprise" to him as it does to 21st century Americans, it was used in the much older sense to mean "body or grouping of interests".
See the Wiki
Mussolini's "corporatism" meant a sort of negotiating council comprising representatives of government, organised labour and industrial capital, which is a fascist/Third Way kind of idea for overcoming the at that time hugely destabilising tension between capital and labour (verging on literal civil war). On the face of it, not actually that bad, except that in practice it was unelected and unresponsive to democracy, the governmental elements tended to end up calling all the shots, and labour particularly suffered. And mixed with the ultranationalist and militarist elements of the weird soup that was Fascism in reality as opposed to in its initial conception, it turned out to be really really bad. But it's arguable that the bad parts of Fascism didn't all derive from that initial idea.
I'm as aware as the next person that commercial corporations are antidemocratic in internal structure, but the scary thing is that many people arguing loudest that "corporatism is fascism" tend to be unaware that the kind of political system they *would* prefer in its place is closer to the initial forms of actual historical Fascism.
You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
Who'd have thought we'd get Star Trek's agony booth before we got handheld ray guns? The future is looking more like the Trek mirror universe, God help us all.
Wouldn't a torture device, quickly 100% effective, causing no damage, be the least inhumane torture device possible?
I think the world would regard that "torture" much differently than slow, damaging, life-threatening torture.
Of course nobody said this torture was any more effective, or quick. If the pain of torture is great enough will it be more effective? They say you cannot rely on information gained by torture.
Tested on animals.
US Air Force Tasers Pigs In Painful Cruel Experiments
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0NcV3VADXEY
Guaranteed to get into the wrong hands.
Time to leave the planet.
against this system. It's a mm-wave (that is, really high freq microwave) radiator, I would guess around 100GHz, given the gyrotron sources that can be procured these days. Raytheon says it can be highly collimated, to the point where it can target an individual in a crowd. Corner reflectors are metallic reflectors that consist of three planes intersecting at right angles - like you sliced the corner of a cube off, hence the name. They have the property of reflecting any incident ray (wave) back along the incoming path - exactly (depends on fab precision) and without having to aim. See for operation. Works with light, works with radar. The smaller the wave, the smaller the corner reflector can be. So for mm waves, a corner reflector with an aperture of a centimeter or so ought to be effective as a retroreflector. It's not too hard to imagine how to make sheets of corner reflectors that could be used as shields. Since the microwave energy would be directed right back to the antenna, it could damage the transmitting electronics unless they've done a good job with circulators and dummy loads.
How is it that you know what all these other regimes would have/would not have done?
I, for one, welcome our nerve-vibrating microwave Hummer-mounted overlords who won't cause permanent, visible injury as long as we aren't wearing glasses or contacts.
My God. This is so bad at so many levels, but here's my contribution to the list.
A tazer has to be held by the user in contact with the victim. The victim at least gets to see the person coming and witness them. This evil device leaves no evidence and can be operated at a great distance in full anonymity.
1/ What about severe misue of the device for assassination, by any number of conscienceless vermin across society:
1.1/ Target a plane's cockpit on takeoff. Dead. No evidence. Post mortem: Accident.
1.2/ Target a mountain climber hiking (unroped) up a steep mountainside. Dead. No evidence. Post mortem: Accident.
1.3/ Target a skydiver/BASE jumper after jumping and before opening their chute. Dead. No evidence. Post mortem: Accident.
1.4/ Targetting the driver of Xxxx Xx's Mercedes as it travels into a French tunnel at high speed. Massive accident, perhaps death, certain personal trauma. No evidence. Post mortem: Accident.
1.5/ Target Lewis Hamilton's Maclaren at the end of Spa's main straight, just before the braking zone. (precedent: Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, Gunter Parche) Massive accident, perhaps death, certain loss of race points. No evidence. Post mortem: Accident.
1.6/ Target that noisy motorcyclist who keeps riding up and down the road outside your retirement home. Massive accident, perhaps death, certain personal trauma. No evidence. Post mortem: Accident.
No evidence. No sound. Sniper-like secrecy. Uncontrollable pain. Certain or highly probable death.
2/ How can its premise of evidenceless be defeated? A vulnerable person may be unable to wear a full "tinfoil suit" (mountain climber), but perhaps they can carry a frequency recording device that can be manufactured and distrubuted cheaply that amounts to a piece of litmus-like paper that changes colour if subjected to this evil device's frequency at a threshold intensity, so that the person's body will at least carry a fragment of evidence that the magic frequeny was applied to the person, causing the pain (and death if so). Patentable? Hope not. I just put it into the public domain to try to block that usually bad outcome.
ANonCow
Finally, a humane way to dominate the world for resources. God bless America!
5. Trampling: This typically causes the highest number of casualties when force is used on crowds. When the rear of a large group of people are pushing forward and the front suddenly panics, breaks, and runs, people in the middle have a real bad day. People being run down, shoved, elbowed, or struck down by others fleeing, possibly into lamp posts, cars, or other obstacles, or people tripping, falling, injuring themselves or being trampled by others behind them are a serious possibility with this device. Hell, we have this happen at surplus sales in America; an area-use pain weapon would unleash real mayhem.
If you don't have a problem with MICROWAVING somebody, why not just shoot them with bullets?!
The article is thin on technical details but this should work:
Wear clothing soaked in saline.
This is simply splendid for absorbing/attenuating/stopping (you choose your nomenclature) microwaves in L-band through X-band.
Clearly you will need something for your face (as well as a soggy balaclava)
My guess is that you can find some metallised plastic/glass which will do the job rather like the screens that used to be available to cover CRT monitors (the ones with the ground cord - (I have no idea what they were meant to do))
If you don't have saline use urine (no I have not done a comparative test)
Major problem with this approach is that you'll freeze in a cold climate.
.. oops ! not funny.
Well, at least now we know why the CIA finally abandoned waterboarding as a torture technique.
I think a combo of asbestos undies and tin-foil raincoat may help, but it is bound to be a rather hot garb in Iraq...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Oblig.
Won't tin foil burn in a microwave beam?
Tomorrow: If you congregate with suspicious people, you can expect to get zapped with the pain ray.
How can a neighborhood be suspicious? I think this shows a predisposition on your part for misusing the very technology we are debating.
Many policemen are alright. I'm glad they are doing their jobs. There are also quite a few Officer Dickheads that I would not want in charge of this kind of technology. Lot's of these Officer Dickheads are on ego trips. There are people like this in the military too. Why worry just about our own police abusing this power. What about the military using this on innocents? Why not worry about breeding a new round of terrorists? We, as a nation, and as humans are going to deserve what happens to us.
Sorry for the awkward sentences. I can't figure out what is tripping the "lameness filter"
postmodernsideshow.com
If I am in a country where they throw this ray around to disperse crowds .. there has to be a way to protect your self from it.. maybe a material that reflects it or something?
I goggled not having allot of luck on a defense against this?! anyone?
I wonder if it also penetrates the cornea 1/64th of an inch.
a reverse-engineered version with 10-100 times the power from well outside the effective range of a .45 pistol or 5.56mm M-16 round? This isn't rocket science.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Congratulations, America has finally built the technology to create an Agony Booth.
In the parallel universe where everyone has a goatee, did they build an opposite device, giving pure pleasure?
Seriously. This thing scares me more than nuclear weapons. At least with a nuke, you would be turned to your constituent atoms quicker than your nerves could react. With this "pain ray" Corporations and governments could exert complete control over their populations. Dipshit "America firsters" will try to get this set up on the borders to keep out all the "brown people"
Then there is the little matter that these are most likely considerably easier to create than nukes. Something a well financed terrorist could conceivably come up with in a couple of years and you have the perfect terror weapon. They wouldn't need to do it to people in Times Square. They could just camp out a half a mile from the runway of any major airport and cook the pilots when the planes are taking off. Presto! Instant coordinated air distasters at every major airport in the U.S simultaneously.
The humunculi who think up and fund these things should just be loaded into a space ship blasted into the fucking sun.
Because I thought of the same joke...
My life's goal is to get a score of +3!
Funny how most of the people who say that the US is a police state are Americans who've never actually been to or met anyone who has lived in a real police states.
You're totally right. Those other repressive regimes operate secret prisons where people are whisked away without being formally charged and then they're tortured for supposed information. Nobody even knows how many of those prisons exist or how many prisoners are in them. And then their own government completely monitors all their 'private' communications without warrants or any reasonable cause to suspect them of wrong-doing.
Fortunately, we've got a constitution that protects Americans from living under such a 'police state.'
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I'd like to say that this weapon won't work on ninjas. As everyone knows, pain is unknown to a well tained ninja.
Captcha is "disarms." How apropos.
How can a neighborhood be suspicious?
Sorry, when I used the word 'suspicious neighbourhood', I was reffering to neighbourhoods, which have a higher crime rate/where regular soliciting goes on, crime 'hotspots'.
Tomorrow: If you congregate with suspicious people, you can expect to get zapped with the pain ray.
I agree with your statement as stated above. If one associates with criminals (or 'suspicious people' in your terms), you should expect to run into trouble with the law, and if one steps out of line (defies authourity), then one can expect consequences.
I am aware of corrupt or unfair/unjust cops, but that shouldn't mean we need to through them all in the one basket.
"Failure to conform to majority belief does not make you a troll."
hm.. rf .. shiny metal .. tin foil suit .. parabolic "umbrella"
They would be ready and have clothes with copper wire mesh sewn in, mesh or tin foil masks and hats. Device would work perfectly though against unsuspecting crowd, prisoners or just whoever annoy police.
Sorry, when I used the word 'suspicious neighbourhood', I was reffering to neighbourhoods, which have a higher crime rate/where regular soliciting goes on, crime 'hotspots'. So if I understand your argument correctly, if one is in a place that has a 'higher crime rate,' or 'regular soliciting goes on,' you feel that alone is due cause for one to be interfered with by the police? Tomorrow: If you congregate with suspicious people, you can expect to get zapped with the pain ray.
I agree with your statement as stated above. If one associates with criminals (or 'suspicious people' in your terms), you should expect to run into trouble with the law, and if one steps out of line (defies authourity), then one can expect consequences. This is where it becomes very evident that you are simply a troll. 'Suspicious people' is a subjective term, and I assure you that because one looks suspicious, one is not necessarily a criminal. Even if one associates with known criminals, unless there is some evidence to indicate that one is in any way involved with criminal activities, association alone is unlikely to be reasonable grounds for harassment. I am aware of corrupt or unfair/unjust cops, but that shouldn't mean we need to through them all in the one basket. You must be new here.
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. -- Albert Einstein
What makes you think anyone who could get their hands on one of these cares what the laws say?
~Eien no Inori wo Sasagete~ Searching for my Hatsumi...
Dont know if long term effects where tested.
Probably safe unless you have microwave popcorn butter in your pocket
On a major bridge or a fast-moving section of highway, take your large van and flick the device on for 2 seconds directly behind you. Preferably on a foggy day. Depending on the field of fire, you could instantly cause swerving across 4 lanes of traffic and a massive pileup. And if you were feeling discreet, have the guy in the back drive in front of some old person and target them specifically--less obvious.
Sure they could track you down IF they had license plate recording/video of that section, but you could cause some serious fatalities with one of these things and scare the shit out of the populace. Or you could just fuck with people as the tech becomes cheaper...no longer do you shoot a guy in the ass for being late on a drug payment, just drive by and ray gun the fuck out of him and his friends.
Also, as the technology scales, if hand held versions are available to the general populace...the potential for abuse is huge. This thing doesn't leave barbs. And if the "invisible" damage is hard to detect, then crimes will be more complicated to solve.
...you feel that alone is due cause for one to be interfered with by the police?
...you are simply a troll. 'Suspicious people' is a subjective term...
In one word...yes. In more than one word, if a cop has reason to believe you may be involved in criminal activity (i.e.: passing through streets wherein soliciting goes on), they should have everyright to pull you over, and if nothing is found, then there is absolutely nothing to worry about.
Sorry, 'suspicious people' was not my term (as stated). I agree with your statement "..because one looks suspicious, one is not necessarily a criminal.", although associating with criminals can make you a target of suspicion, and in some American states can be sentenced harshly for participating/associating with criminals (e.g.: felony murder).
You must be new here.
That would be correct my work associate friend. Although that's neither here nor there. It sounds like you've used that statement to try and stamp out opposition to your views rather than raising valid points.
"Failure to conform to majority belief does not make you a troll."
That would be correct my work associate friend. Although that's neither here nor there. It sounds like you've used that statement to try and stamp out opposition to your views rather than raising valid points. Yep, _definitely_ new here.
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. -- Albert Einstein
The S&M crowd are gonna love this little toy for their toybox. :)
February 9th, 2009 8:55pm: Slashdot becomes self-aware.
> But we taser people too often, so we're worse. Seriously, fuck you.
Grand parent never claimed US was "worse" than USSR. That is pure invention on your part, because you lack the mental capabilities to read what he actually wrote. As long as you compensate for your long for your low intelligence by inventing stuff, you will never become smarter.
He claimed that in the US people are tasered for situations where more oppressive governments would not use a gun. You then counter by a Wikipedía quote, listing abuses done by USSR in situation where US police or guards would not use a taser. You don't use tasers to assassinate people, or to "subversion of foreign governments", once again demonstrating how access to Wikipedia is in no way a replacement for having a brain.
C. "Don't run a country in such a way as to create the cause for giant protests."
If there are mass protests, then it means the elected (sic) government is doing something wrong and the appearance of masses of people on the Whitehouse lawn should inspire them not to control and disperse the people with force, but to stop raping them through corrupt law.
Yes, I like that idea a whole lot better than getting to choose which version of molestation I would prefer to be subjected to when I show up to haul my not-so-democratically elected official to prison for started wars and taking bribes and generally being a psychotic clown.
Oh. . , but I should be practical. We don't live in an ideal world. I HAVE to choose, because that's just how it is. The 'facts on the ground' as you say, (along with the genocidal Zionist psychotics who first coined the term), are such that riots exist and must be dealt with, and that we simply must be controlled by weapons of mass dispersal. It's the American way.
Bullllllshit. That's such bullshit, and I reject it outright! The monsters may attack us, but I absolutely refuse to give them my mind as well. --To believe that they are somehow right to fire poison and pain rays into crowds of people. They are not! They are wrong!
Michael Moore's "Sicko" is a good example of the discrepancy between reality and perceived reality. It was easily the best piece of work he's produced, and I would recommend it to anybody. It's hard to realize just how fascist and evil the U.S. Government really is until you get an outside perspective. 9-11 rescue workers injured in their efforts to help out on the day and utterly ignored by the U.S. system were given free medical care in Cuba ferchrisake. It brought them all to tears as their illusions of the outside world were shattered. --And France appears to be an excellent example of a government being effectively bullied by the people, the way it ought to be. French universal health care, long holidays, labor laws which make the U.S. by comparison look like Red Russia, and yet, amazingly, the country remains one of the richest in the EU. America is deeply, deeply messed up, and her inhabitants are for the most part not even aware of the fact for having been so lied to, so beaten, so controlled, so poisoned and so undereducated. When I see Bush on a news piece walking through a crowd, it's plain that he's looking at the people the way one might look at chickens in a factory farm; pathetic and stupid and not even aware of how badly they've been screwed. How can he respect the people for being so blind and so totally bled by him and his kind?
So, No thank-you. I won't choose between CS gas and Pain Guns. Neither should exist.
The day the gene for psychopathy is discovered, all who carry it need to be visibly branded and put away in a big, enclosed city and we should throw huge bags of money and guns over the walls for them to back-stab each other to control. They'll take care of the problem they represent all on their own.
-FL
The article has Raytheon saying they won't sell it to countries with questionable human rights records or those that support torture. America and her allies have been doing just that for the past 5 years in the opne and in secret for the past 50 years. This thing will be shipped to gitmo (if it hasn't already) and tested on people being held illegally without any rights or trials. It will also be acquired or mad by other nations in short order and will be used for the purposes of torture and to violate the human rights of anyone who dares oppose the government whose goons are strapped with such a device.
So then lemme get this straight: then the great advantage of the Taser is... that it finally brought the US police on par with the USSR police? You know, the USSR guys might beat you up after they arrest you, the US guys taser you repeatedly even if they've got nothing to arrest you for.
<sarcasm>'Course, blimey, noone should be worried if individual people start being tortured by the police. It's totally a direction that we should be glad that a democratic state takes.</sarcasm>
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I believe the worst thing about this weapon is the fact that it probably causes enough pain to totally snap a mind in a matter of minutes. This makes extreme behavioral conditioning possible in a relatively short amount of time. The quickest way that we humans learn something is to associate the lesson with pain.
And what if you aren't interested in keeping the person functional or alive? Do you have a political enemy that has been giving you trouble? No problem, just snatch them up lock them in a room with a bottle of whatever medication they are already legitimately taking , turn on the pain induction and tel them the only way to make it stop is to take the whole bottle. Wait for them to give in, and they will give in rather soon I think. Dump the "poor suicidal person" in a cheap hotel room. See, no mess and no more problem.
Intense unrelenting pain can make a person do just about anything to make it stop.
Might it be a good idea to require that any police issue of this device include a simple circuit that counts and records the number of times the device has been activated? Perhaps even include a small, crude digital camera that takes and records snapshots of the target area every time the device is activated. This way, after incidents of alleged abuse, the device could be impounded and examined for evidence, preventing an officer from denying use or misleading about the context of use.
I am appalled that a bunch of engineers actually
went and designed and built this thing to its completion.
What were they thinking? It will only be used for good?
This device can ONLY be used to cause harm, by
whoever uses it, 'good' or 'bad'. And I my book, causing harm on
purpose is never good. It has no peaceful application
(we already have microwave ovens, and this one doesn't
cook dinner) and it will never contribute constructively
to the wellbeing of the human race. Oh, but it will help
a small group of already powerful people, alright.
Shame on you Raytheon engineers. Ethics down the drain.
assignment != equality != identity
You can already see how the so-called non-harmful taser is already being abused for punishment rather than enforcement. Expect full scale sales efforts to start to places with excellent track records on human rights like China (I never intended it to be used on 'that' square) and, umm, ah, yes: the US?
You can't see it, so it doesn't exist. Guantanamo Bay anyone? New toy for "we never torture anyone"?
You cam bet money that the excuse is going to be that this thing "prevents the use of lethal force". Well, at least you have to think about using lethal force, it costs money every time and it leaves serious evidence. Unless these things and tasers come equipped with immutable recording equipment you'll never be able to prove the abuse - at that point it becomes as safe in unclean hands as a Diebold voting machine.
Ah, wait a moment. Now THERE's a coincidence..
1984, the manual. On sale now.
Insert
In this case a tin foil hat would actually protect you. Why not tinfoil lined clothes as well?
Obivously some sort of skimask would be worn with mirror glasses. all done.
You are quite correct. As you say, the Taser has been found to be "seldom lethal"... often called "less lethal" weaponry. Those who call it "non-lethal" are either lying or uninformed. For example, just recently there was a casualty in my own city. (Yes, in the U.S.)
Because of its status as "less lethal", the Taser is supposed to be used by law enforcement as "an alternative to lethal force". In other words, as a way of stopping a person when the only other alternative is to shoot them with a gun. And it performs that function quite well. The Taser very seldom (but occasionally) results in permanent damage or death.
PROBLEM #1 is exactly that perception of non-lethality. To some, non-lethal or "less lethal" means safe or even sane. However, I would be willing to bet a large amount that if you compared the number of people in history who have been beaten with nightsticks, to the number of people who have been Tasered, you would find a higher lethality rate for the Taser. I am only guessing, but nobody so far has really done such a study, so the question is open. And as I mentioned, one died just recently in my own town. I do not think anyone in this town has ever died from beatings by nightsticks... and believe me, there have been some over the last couple of hundred years.
PROBLEM #2 is the conception that "no permanent harm" means "no harm". Bullshit. People hit with a Taser fall down hard, in unnatural positions, and hurt themselves. It is also excruciatingly painful. I believe most people who have been Tasered would rather have been hit with a nightstick, even though the latter would hurt for a much longer time.
Years ago, a popular interrogation (or control) device was a length of rubber hose, because it could be extremely painful but leave few marks and do "no permanent harm". Sound familiar? Strangely, the rubber hose is internationally vilified as a "torture device" while the Taser is not. Somebody please explain this to me!
PROBLEM #3 Police forces tend to attract the kind of people who like to bully and control other people. You could argue with me all you want about that but history supports that statement beyond dispute. I am not saying that all cops are bad, but a disproportionate percentage of them are, and always have been. Plain, simple truth. I wish it were otherwise.
PROBLEM #4 is actually just the consequences of 1, 2, and 3: Police forces (at least in the U.S.) have started using Tasers in ways that are completely inappropriate: to avoid physical confrontation at all; as an alternative to nightsticks (rather than as an alternative to guns, as it should be); and even just as a convenience, such as to avoid having to tell someone something one more time. I have seen video clips of police Tasering people for such things as talking back, not moving fast enough for the officer's taste, and other such "criminal" acts. That very recent video of the student getting Tasered at the Kerry speech is a classic case. The student might have been a mouthy ass, but he did not deserve the treatment he received.
People need to get together and demand that their state or city restrict the use of Tasers (again) to "an alternative to deadly force". Otherwise, their use will escalate and the public will surely regret it.
I was not going to mention the circumstances behind the recent death by Taser in my city, but actually I think it is worth mentioning.
A man (who was not under suspicion for a crime at the time) was beaten and eventually Tasered while he was having an epileptic seizure, because he was "not responding" to police orders. Of course he was not responding... he was twitching face down on the lawn in a seizure! Any idiot should have been able to see that something was amiss. Witnesses stated that the police were wantonly brutal and that he had never provoked anyone... he was simply not responding.
The man happened to be at a house (he did not live there) when the police went to arrest the resident on drug charges. He was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. There were no charges against him. An acquaintance of mine knew him. She said he was one of the nicest people she ever knew. Wouldn't hurt a fly.
this is what buck rogers was waiting for.
the future is now.
http://luminosity.livejournal.com http://www.zazzle.com/unixarcade*
Sometimes, I get the feeling the police in the US are trained to follow a rigid standard procedure when making arrests and may not deviate even a fraction of an inch from it, regardless of the circumstances. E.g.
1. Order suspect to get up. (Do not listen to anything he says ("I'm paraplegic.", "One of my legs is missing.", and the like) or accept any other reasons (suspect is deaf, unconscious, etc) for not following the order.)
2. Repeat the order, in a loder voice. (Do not listen to anything he says ("I'm paraplegic.", "One of my legs is missing.", and the like) or accept any other reasons (suspect is deaf, unconscious, etc) for not following the order.)
3. Taser the suspect.
4. If the battery is empty, proceed to 5. Else go to 2.
5. Call in SWAT team
Considering microwaves do not penetrate metallic materials (Light Armored Vehicles, Cars, Trucks, Tanks, Planes) I don't know that there is a lot of military value in this unless you are defending against a field of attacking Zulu Warriors.
Unless you are positioned against dissenters of the reign, like protestors and others who might threaten the government with Civil Disobedience.
Exactly right.
Since non-leathal weapons are not leathal, there is no reason not to use them.
This is what we're seeing everywhere where the police force gets these weapons. They tend to use them more and more liberally as time goes by. At first the weapon is a bit of an unknown, you don't know its effect and you are told by your superiors that it is to be used only as a last recourse. So you do.
After a while, you become quite comfortable with knowing that anyone you spray/tazer becomes easier to handle and very rarely does anyone have a good case of excessive force. "He/she was resisting!" is generally enough for any judge.
In the end, it all comes down to the simple fact that the people who use these weapons don't know how they feel. It should be required that every member of the law enforcement should feel the effects of the weapons they use at least once. This should be so with knight-sticks and other such utilities as well, but since these can actually permanently disable people this would be impractical, but pepper spray and tazer should be fine.
Using pepper spray is the equivalent of punching someone in the face. Tazer is the equivalent of beating someone in the head with a gold brick wrapped in a lemon. If everyone thought like this, then these weapons would not be used as much.
Badgers, we don't need no stinking badgers! - UHF
One might suspect that might apply to these shorter microwaves too.
What's the Geneva Convention rules say about weapons that blind you , even if not immediately?
THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!
everyones got a gun till the feds take em then we get tasers, for self defense. they are widely abused by law enforcement, as are other none-lethal weapons then we get the pain gun and the one that makes you feel like your on fire but they will only be used in war and to break up riots, or political rallys, or when you ask a question to a cop, or... its gettin close to the time the people need to fight back. the govt wont listen to the people the people have no choice but to listen to their rats/leaders or they will get tasered, pained, heated, bean bagged, or netted and dragged off to jail. but these 'ray guns' will only be used to break up riots. when was the last time the govt told you the truth
We can just order some pathetic little mud-hut third world country to do our bidding, and if they don't, we fly a hundred B-52s with one of these poking out the bomb doors across them in tight formation!
Hey, we can cook whole cities with this! Why don't we test it on Mexico?
Having someone who can hurt you from half a mile away makes it all the more important to put the crosshairs on them and end their life.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
The note about skin penetration means they've tested and measured the effects. You know the footage is going to be leaked and show up on the pr0n sites sooner or later. That should be intersting...
Lightweight spring-open foil shields. They sell them for photography use as light reflectors, or you could make your own from Space Blankets and tensioning wire.
They can be folded down to a package about 3" x 3", and spring out to 6ft x 2 ft, so anyone can carry them continuously.
I am sure you can hide behind them, and easily detect the source of the rays. Then approach to zero feet, overcome the operators, and peg them in front of the projectors until their heads explode.
Last I heard, they were still concerned about targets wearing metal jewelery. A metal ring on a finger will absorb quite a bit of this energy (think fork in microwave), and even after the ray is turned off, the ring is still very hot - potentially causing lasting damage to the skin in contact.
Well, what happens when someone with a weak heart/or a healthy heart is shot with an assault rifle?
The article makes some very dishonest and paranoid statements.
i'll grant that cops are a little trigger happy on the tasers, but that might be a matter of adjusting our laws and training. It might also be due to the fact that the media focuses on covering bad news. Where are all the stories of cops using tasers to bring down violent criminals without killing them? The slope isn't always slippery. If i had to choose between feeling a pain ray or feeling a bullet, i'll take the pain ray. Which would you prefer, spraying hot lead down a crowded street to shoot at the one or two hostiles firing from behind civilians or to blast the crowd with a pain ray?
If you were the one pulling the trigger, would you rather cut people in half with a 50 cal or zap them with a pain ray?
Just because a tool can be used for evil, doesn't mean it always will be, or that it eventually will. If it does, you deal with such cases individually. This system will save lives, and likely it will save the lives of our soldiers and civilians. If we teach them well and punish abuses, the predicted problems will be few and far between. While we can still enjoy the advantages of not hosing down a crowd of families to get the bad guys cowering behind them.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
How will different people around the world use this device? Terrorist: Build a biger version that can zap a whole city Corrupt Government: Stop legitimate protests and oppress the people. Solier in Abu Graib: Something disgusting Police: Zap people they don't like. They've already proven how irresponsible with other weapons Bookie: Zap the horse they dont want to win the race Gamble: Zap the horse the bookie wants to win the race Political Candidate: Zap the other guy during a debate Rugby Team: Zap the guy taking the conversion Basketball Team: Zap the guy doing a slam dunk NFL Team: Zap the MVP Baseball Team: Zap the batter Football: Zap David Beckham in a penalty. Nm, he'd prolly miss anyway ;-)
Saddam: Nothing 'cos he's dead
Russia: Send spies to Britain to zap them and then poison them
Zimbabwe : Zap all the whites
Midwest US: Zap all the blacks
Israel: Build a big wall make of laber beams so the Pals can't get in
And the best part is, nobody will ever know they are doing it. Whatever happens this device will be used and abused because it will be very useful for people who are abusive.
Play "Hit me baby one more time" has about the same effect...
Oh yeah, and welcome to /. GP
I would not want to be an eyeball or the owner of eyeballs if this thing were in the area.
Also, how can this thing be abused? Yeah, rubber bullets are not supposed to kill, cops are supposed to shoot at the ground in front of the protesters and let the bullets ricochet into their legs, but how many cops just aim at the head instead? Yeah, you really can put an eye out with one of these. Just how could the pain ray be abused?
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Bye Mom! I'm going to protest the new ray gun the government is using for "crowd control" (four fingers held in the familiar pose)
Don't forget your reflective sunglasses Jimmy! Are you wearing your tinfoil hat? You get back in here and put your Microwave Screen Cream on there's a tube in the medicine cabinet. I don't want you coming back here with your skin bubbling again.
It is after all Microwave! Have you seen what even a gold trimmed cup will do in a microwave? Lightning shoots right back at the top of the microwave. Oh cr*p here come the soldiers. Hey I wasn't doing anything. I was just exercisin my right to free speech
***pzzzzzt***.
Here you go.
Misery loves company. Online misery loves unsuspecting random strangers.
Didn't RTFA, but it sounds like this weapon is simple enough to get into the hands of the people. After that it's just a matter of sniping a few high ranking gov't officials with it. After they are done writhing in pain, they'll make sure that's the end of their legality under any circumstances. Unlike a gun, there's no flash or smoke, no permanent damage. Even if the sniper is caught, then the gov't is in a pickle - if they charge the sniper with anything more than assault, they're making a case against the weapon's use by police.
I personally know of a 16 yr old girl fetting tazed after walking out of a convenient store (by a cop) in which there was a violent dispute outside. She is 5'8" about 120lbs and sweet as could be. Further more she wasn't doing anything. These things are out of hand. Cops in general are our of hand. There are too many of them and THEY ARE BORED (translation, trigger happy). Where I live ther is absolutly no reason but to have maybe 2 or three officers and patrol cars in the whole county and there are much more than that; whats more fuckin NOTHING happens here aside from "drug busts".
I find it difficult to fathom the inhumanity of people who see this kind of this as 'useful.' Clearly extreme pain causes psychological disturbance, and prolonged extreme pain can cause long-lasting or even permanent damage. I can imagine someone trapped in a beam for longer than a minute tearing out their own throat and eyes in an effort to escape this thing. Sit back for a moment and imagine yourself in this thing. For hours. Hell could be no worse.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." Darwin
I want one of these to use on my neighbors dog.
arrrr, grammar nazi on deck
The UCLA tasering was not a public library in the same sense, since it belongs to the school rather than the community at large
The entire university, library included, belongs to the people of California. I rather consider that the "community at large." UC libraries are in fact public libraries. Anyone resident can walk in and get a lending card, regardless of student status.
Disparaging the taser is a taserable offense!
Liberty you never use is liberty you lose.
Don't worry lads, they couldn't hit an elephant at this ran*fnzownt*
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
... Now how does the citizen build one? Instructions should be posted. If random citizens may have these, perhaps behavioral enforcement between the government and people will begin to run both ways? Someone harrassing a politician, etc... with one would of course be arrested and what not, but when armed squads of thugs arrive to attack First Amendment protected gatherings, the thought of having their own instruments turned on them might give them pause, and maybe, just maybe, there will be a peaceful, respectful co-existance. Knowing that the citizens can have such can help curtail abuses without such even being used. That's one interpretation of why the Second Ammendement was written.
Further, the other type of armed thugs (rapists, muggers, carjackers... you know, the types the police are supposed to go after originally) would find this a bit dissuasive if it started being used occaisionally to foil their attacks.
Someone get plans online. Please. Now.
3 questions:
1. Why does it seem they always go after the pain nerves first? Seems to me a pleasure ray would be just as effective and (to those who *haven't* thought it through) much less objectionable,,,
2. How long until they refine this to skip past pain and produce instant unconsciousness for a predictable period of time?
3. How long until they move past "ray guns" and produce a field effect that directly stimulates the pleasure/pain centers of the brain? (really effective boundary device, much easier on the scenery than electric concertina wire fences....)
Take the 90-Day Challenge! http://rwmurker.bodybyvi.com/
... no really. And undergarmets, shirts, pants... on and on. Wouldn't wearing clothing laced with metalic thread just cause you to glow pretty colors if the pain beam were turned on you? All the talk of torture tactics is a whole other scary topic though.
A real life representation of the Cruciatus curse! J.K. Rowling must be proud. I'm still waiting for Imperio. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unforgivable_Curses
I have not laughed this hard in YEARZ! Oh, MAN! Keep it up.
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
Richard Machowicz sounds like a complete fake. Want to know what a real SEAL sounds like? Check out Red Cell, a DVD and VHS release that details Dick Marcinko's tiger team operations against Naval installations all over the world. If you can find it, that is. It never did see a broad distribution.
More on Marcinko can be found here.
Not to poop on everyone's parade for peace, but in the unhappy event that I am tortured, I'd much rather have one of these used on me than be sodomized with a broomstick.
Look, personally, if I'm tortured, my torturers are going to learn whatever they damn well want, and fast. I'd prefer not to have my body permanently damaged in the process.
Think of a pain so intense that you would ignore your own children to get away from the ray-gun. It couldn't be used on a crowd or mob without significant death and injury. Fire it at a crowd which would cause mindless running of people over the top of other people, runnning into on-coming traffic, off bridges, etc...oh the humanity.
http://www.bodyexposed.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=2787
Please name in the order of more dangerous; A RPG? a Pain-Transmitter?, or a Diplomat?
This machine has the ability to inflict limitless, unbearable pain.
Would you be able to live with that on you conscience?
What about when it is misused (as everything eventually is>? Would the engineer be responsible?
Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
My argument is simply that using force against foreign terrorists is different from using force against domestic opponents of the government.
It's absolutely contrary to the objective of establishing peace. Forget this nonsense about how our soldiers are treated when captured. Torture motivates and emboldens the enemy against you. You'll never win the hearts and minds of your opponent if you're torturing their countrymen. In that scenario, the route to peace is exponentially more bloody because it can only be achieved by pounding them into a submissive surrender. Frustratingly, this isn't an effective strategy against a disorganized population of suicide bombers.
My argument is that if the bad guys win there will be a whole lot more brutality going on
This is the same argument of the suicide bombers.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
There were over a hundred thousand demonstrators and a couple of thousand dollars damage committed by a handful of twits. The police refused to arrest vandals identified by protesters. Then they went on a rampage with indescriminate use of tear gas and mace. It was a police riot. One sheriff's deputy saw a woman videotaping, knocked on her car window and when she rolled it down maced her and the other occupant of the car. He won the appeal of his suspension instead of a conviction for assault.
The news media recycled the same miniscule footage over and over. It was bullshit.
The facts are that WTO was a great example of civil disobedience, passive and pacifist. The cops were freaked out and undisciplined and very badly led. Also much prone to unconstitutional abuses. Puppet workshops were raided soley because they make good t.v. Paint was "stockpiling hazardous substances"
When the legal fallout settled, there were no convictions of protesters and some hefty payouts for false arrest.
...just wear shielding (can be light and flexible because microwaves are short wavelength).
It could even be a cream, like zinc oxide sunscreen.
Done.
If you check that video a little more closely, you'll see the real reason the guy was tasered.
He had the temerity to be in America while looking like an Arab. Worse, he spoke his mind (in fluent english) whilst having an Arab parent.
It's a brand new day! They used to tase you for being black, now brown is sufficient.
My father worked in nonlethal warfare at Sandia National Laboratories, where this technology was developed. To a large degree the US anticipates that wars will be fought between the conventional uniformed militaries of the world and non-uniformed terrorists who use people's religious sensibilities to whip the locals into a frenzy and cause mayhem. A large mob behaves in ways that an individual would not, in most cases, and will engage an enemy it cannot possibly defeat.
It is unnecessary and undesirable to kill these people, as given the chance to consider their decisions, it's likely they would not make them the same way. The US wants the ability to return to the negotiations table, which is impossible after a massacre of civilians (even if the civilians are firing rifles at you)(Propagandists are quick to turn a supressed riot into a massacre of innocents, and are offended easily). In addition, the US wants to be able to coerce potential combatants to leave an area which is sensitive from a military, social, or tactical perspective.
These nonlethal methods, only one of which is the pain gun, are intended to drive away rioters, mobs, or the suicidal berzerker charges of people who have been fed a line of bull and are coming to kick some butt (and die).
Prior to nonlethal warfare technologies, it was necessary for the soldiers in the field to defend themselves with the squad automatic weapon (SAW) and M-16s.
The men my father worked for actually did care about unnecessary losses of life, and continue to seek methods to minimize the same. Some of you may be paranoid and think that this is another way the government wants to control you like sheep. This is paranoid because the armed forces of the military is made of volunteers, many of which are extremely libertarian and would NEVER take up arms against their own people. As a former service member, I cannot imagine any scenario in which I would have obeyed an order to coerce, control, or inhibit the lawful actions of any US citizen. Let me tell you that nearly 100 percent of the guys I served with, if faced with an order from an officer to shoot at law abiding US citizens, would turn the rifle on the officer before the civilian. The military is us. US. US means something to us.
That said, if there were a group of rioters heading toward a sensitive facility intending to impede its operation or storm the gates, I would be perfectly willing to use a pain generator to convince them not to do so, as the alternative is fire on civilians. You can't arrest a riot. You must subdue, then arrest.
"Why? An officer that's shown to abuse people can't keep his job unless an elected official/body allows him/her to."
And implements like the taser make it easier for an officer to abuse people without there being any evidence (bruises from nightsticks etc) to show what has happened.
Poor Newton, first having Einstein pick at his theories, then being outquoted by him.
I think GP will keep going for as long as (s)he gets replies. Then again, those who have espoused such ultra-conservative views are bound for -1 Troll, regardless, methinks.
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. -- Albert Einstein
This technology could obviously be used for a neural interface instead of a torture device.
Can it trigger pain neurouns, then it should trigger other neurons as well. What about focusing information patterns on the retina, brain, or spinal column with it? What about using near-field radiation to trigger neurons from a chip without sticking lots of needles into the brain and similar?
Remember, if you see that patented, you saw it first here, and I found this quite obvious.
Kim0
You make a good point. AND if I were modding I would mod you up for funny.
The famous Nuremberg Defense "I was only following orders!" did not work back then, and should not work now. Even rookie cops and lowly privates are morally and ethically required, at some point, to stop and say "This is wrong!"
An "internal investigation" has been started... I do not believe it has finished yet.
This town used to have a Citizens' Review Committee that reviewed such things... it was resisted strongly by the police and their union, and still exists (theoretically) but has no funding. It has no teeth at all.
We are working on improving that situation... but in the meantime, the death toll has been mounting.