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Southwest Declares Kevin Smith Too Fat To Fly
theodp writes "Kevin Smith is not a happy Southwest customer. The director was thrown off a flight from Oakland to Burbank, after being deemed too fat to fly. He later wound up on another Southwest flight, but has declared It's On and taken his rants to Twitter. 'Dear @SouthwestAir — I know I'm fat, but was Captain Leysath really justified in throwing me off a flight for which I was already seated?' he began. He also let the airline know he'd made it to his destination. 'Hey @SouthwestAir! I've landed in Burbank. Don't worry: wall of the plane was opened & I was airlifted out while Richard Simmons supervised.'"
I'll bet Southwest will wish he really was Silent Bob.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
There goes the last shred of credibility Twitter may have had. Fatties are now using it to vent rage over how cruel the world is for discriminating against them for being fat.
Maybe if he directed some of that rage into jogging or not stuffing twinkies into his maw it wouldn't be a problem.
Even if they can get their butts between the armrests, the rest of them overflows into the next seat.
They should have required him to buy two seats, since he takes up two seats and twice the gas as a normal person.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Hello Mr. Dear Anonymous Coward,
Your words disgust me. Not only because they are not true, but some people just have big bones.
All the best,
Me
I once had my seat taken by an extremely obese person. He can buy two seats if he needs (or executive class). End of story. Move along. Nothing to see here.
The only question now is "Will you address your weight issues Kevin. or spend all your energies defending your self" I applaud the airline for kicking him off, and if you have ever sit next to a fatty you know how unpleasant it is.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I still think its awesome, but let's keep this next celebrity rivalry off of slashdot. Slashdot didn't cover trump vs o'donnel, and it doesn't cover paris hilton, so while Kevin Smith is a nerd celeb, let's not report on every twitter update in this matter? Mmmkay?
Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
........but somehow the only thing I can feel about this is "Yay Southwest!" Hello schadenfreude. I am an asshole.
Qxe4
Isn't this supposed to be a tech site? Not "popeater?"
C'mon /.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
And named Mohammed, he wouldn't have been kicked off the plane.
He's just going to die of a heart attack soon enough, anyway. There's no reason to try to get back the right to bother everyone else if he's going to have a heart attack or just explode within the next fourteen seconds.
I hope the parent of this post gets modded up. Why should we give a **** about this story?
As someone who lives in Los Angeles and frequently flies Southwest, I'm going to take selfish approach and be angry with Kevin Smith. Southwest has taken a number of actions to keep their rates low compared to their competition, and this is only going to hurt that. :(
I've read the tweets all night from @thatkevinsmith - He'll be getting a call at home from our Customer Relations VP tonight.
So why is this posted as a story on /.?
There is very little future in being right when your boss is wrong.
Is this a question of efficiency or the adequacy of seating a customer who WILL be taking space in the next seat from another paying customer? Or it is a nod to the need for nerds to be concerned about their actual health not just their virtual health?
Perhaps this item is better entitled, The Spill-over Effect: The Unintended Consequences of Charging by the Seat and not the Liter.
I bet the American airlines could improve their bottom line (no pun intended) if they would develop a price structure similar UPS. Sir, what is your height, weight and girth? We're sorry, we have valued your business to be in excess of the reasonable limits that your row-mates can tolerate.
Known to be eloquent and verbose on occasion. Not unlike his creator.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
Okay, so they put him on the next flight and gave him a $100 voucher. Whatever.
BUT - Southwest prides themselves on only using a single aircraft (the 737), and AFAIK a single configuration. So what would be the point of booting him off one flight and putting him on another? Same airline, same seating configuration. It's not like they're moving him from a 737 to a 747 to handle his additional immense girth.
At best, I'll grant that maybe the subsequent flight had fewer passengers to offset him. That's the only thing that even remotely makes sense about it.
And yes, I'm well aware of the fact that he just ain't big enough to justify this. Unless he's ballooned up a lot recently, of course.
I'm a geek and I didn't (and still don't) know who Kevin Smith is.
This is a case where Mr. Smith should excercise his body (and reconsider his diet) rather than his right to free speech. Being obese will shorten his lifespan.
And while speaking of airliners, captain in a plane is as much a captain as one on a boat. If he says you're not welcome on board, you're out.
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
I'm about 135 pounds. Why the fuck do I get charged extra if my bag is 55 pounds, when the fat bastard behind me has 150 pounds on me, and his bag is slightly less? Like somebody mentioned above, yes, I DO think they should weigh people before they get on. The nominal reason for this is fuel charges, right? Can I get a discount because I'm not toting my giant bloated belly around?
</rant>
But profitable.
If anything, this will boost SWA sale.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
I'm occasionally the guy who gives up his seat on an oversold flight in exchange for a free flight, but I'd support reforming the airline standard ticket policy to say :
If a flight is oversold, the airline will first remove any obese people, thus ensuring that remaining passengers are as comfortable as possible. If the flight is still oversold, the airline must offer their usual compensation scheme.
I think the key word here is obese, usually defined as a BMI over 30 kg/m^2, i.e. weight divided by height squared. You might not enjoy sitting next to a person with a BMI around say 28 kg/m^2, but they'll basically remain inside their seat. Anyone whose BMI exceeds 30 will spill over into your seat, so removing them will make the crowded flight much more pleasant.
If he's still his Silent Bob weight, then Kevin Smith's BMI lies between 25 and 30, classifying him as overweight, but not obese. If he's obese now, then he really need to lose weight immediately, or else face serious health problems.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
A&E had a reality show called Airline that featured Southwest from 2004-2005 that had several episodes where people were forced to buy a second seat if someone judged them "too fat". So this is a policy that Southwest has had for a long time, and isn't just some crazy pilot or booking agent just came up with but is rather something that comes from the top down.
It always seemed a bit embarrassing for everyone involved to me. I don't recall much detail from 5 years ago, but I do remember thinking some of the people judged "too fat" looked large, but not so large to affect the passenger next to them. It wasn't a very flattering series for Southwest, as a lot of the stories concentrated on bad aspects of flying. (Some of which were airline employees acting like control freaks)
AccountKiller
According to http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
It sounds like the determination is made if you can not fit within the confines of a standard seat with the arm rests down on both sides. I wonder if they don't have a test airplane seat you can sit in before hand at the terminal before trying to board or set of measurements you can take at home before buying your ticket/boarding to reduce the potential for embarrassment of being forced off the plane once you try to seat onboard.
From the link above:
"I am a large person and use a seatbelt extension, but I fit in one aircraft seat. Do I have to purchase two seats? Our policy does not focus on weight, and the seatbelt extension is not the determining factor. We use the ability to lower the armrests as the gauge, as the armrests are truly the definitive boundary between each seat."
Another interesting tidibt from the link:
Are all overweight people subject to the policy?
Many Americans are "overweight" or "clinically obese." A number of overweight or obese people occupy only one seat. In fact, many Customers may use a seatbelt extension but occupy only one seat, and these Customers would not be asked to reserve a second seat. If a Customer cannot lower the armrest (and is unable to comfortably travel with it in the down position), he/she is required to pay for the additional seat occupied. Again, we will offer a refund if the flight does not oversell.
.... ... }
int main (void) {
New rule: "If your butt doesn't fit in this box, you will have to go first class or buy two tickets."
If you read the actual article/tweets- he was fully seated and buckled in with both armrests down.
"Being obese will shorten his lifespan."
And you are? His mother? Father? Wife? Even those people have no right to say that he must change his diet!
Anyway, as far as I know, and he describes it, his plane was not even full.
If things are as he said (there's always the version, of course - and I've read nothing about it) than I think it's discrimination. Period!
mazevedo
It's not science geeks that love Smith, its comics geeks
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Here's what really happened.
The pilot, a registered Republican, woke up from his nap (pilots cat-nap as much as they can because of the new budget-saving schedules), saw the guy, and mistook him for Michael Moore.
If you take up two seats, pay for two seats. And not one here and one 4 aisles back.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Yet airlines want me to pay a full fare. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to charge the fat folks extra, you gotta give the rest of us the price break on kids' tickets. Otherwise, just reduce the passenger density and charge everyone the same.
What is it with the animosity towards large people?
Sure, most of the time they themselves are to blame for the state they're in. So what? It's their choice, and they shouldn't have to endure getting frowned upon, let alone being openly insulted.
I mean, c'mon, when the seats in an airliner are too small for the person, it's the person's fault? How so? Because he's larger than most others? A quick google search says that the average person in the US weighs 7 kg more than "ideal", so the airlines should of course have to adjust their seats accordingly. They're way too small anyway.
IMO, the airline is to blame when a large person inconveniences someone else due to the size of the seats. Don't ignore their failing just because big people are such easy targets =)
Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
Fortunately for me, I'm not that big of a person. 6'3 and 210 - a touch overweight, but not enough to spill into the next seat.
Coach seats are not comfortable - for anyone, of any size. I can understand the issue you may have if sitting next to an overweight person. Heck, I'm usually uncomfortable enough when there are 2 skinny people beside me if I'm unlucky enough to get the bitch seat.... because the armrests always get taken by whomever gets their arm on it first, so I'm forced to suck my arms in or do the "my arm in front, yours in back" routine.
My wife is overweight. She's not so much that she's massive, but it would be uncomfortable to sit beside her in coach. On a recent flight, the person beside her made her feel horrible by muttering the whole time and not asking or talking to her about moving, or possibly me lifting the rest between us and having her scoot over.
This problem partly stems from people being overweight for seating conditions, and my wife was one of those people who is overweight enough to make you feel uncomfortable. BUT - to help the situation, talk. We're all on the plane together and have varying levels of frustration, but my wife has been laid up for a better part of 2 years with different medical conditions that do make it difficult for her to get to the gym. She could tell you the why and what if you asked her, but instead you feel like making her feel even worse about herself, helping along the cycle.....
We're all stuck on these flights together people, and we all have our stresses when we hit that coach section of the plane. It would be wonderful if we could all just do the best in the situation we're dealt - and perhaps, even offer up to swap seats etc if it would make you feel more comfortable. There are things we can do for each other to make it a more enjoyable experience, but I guess it's easier to just bitch and moan about it......
Then loose some damn weight or purchase two seats. I'm not fat but have flown on planes many times where the fat person next to me spills into my seat. The one I'm paying full price for.
Airport stupidity is a common theme on /. but yeah, this should be put in the broken idle section rather than entertainment.
For those of us who spend lots of time lifting weights BMI is pretty useless. Muscle is denser than fat, many of my friends in great shape have a BMI over 30. These guys may be large, but they certainly aren't obese.
Jay: What do you look so shocked for, man? Fat bastard does this all the time. He thinks just 'cause he doesn't say anything, it'll have some huge impact when he does open his fuckin' mouth...
As much as I am a fan of Kevin Smith and take pride in the fact that he's from my home state of NJ, I have to side with Southwest on this one. I've had the horrible experience of being seated next to and between very fat people several times and it just isn't fair. They should have paid for part of my ticket each time. Flights are cramped uncomfortable experiences as it is, but to have some bloated wheezing corpse pouring over the arm rest into my seat really crosses the line socially.
And before all the fatties cry about how hard they got it, how many of you make life easier for people with real disabilities like blindness or being in a wheel chair?
I would guess just about all of them. Though from your contemptuous tone I'm guessing you're one of those few people who DOESN'T try to accomodate people in armchairs or blind people.
he looks (and smells) like most slashtards. If this could happen to him, it could happen to you, if you ever left the basement.
Get off the plane Fat ASS!
So why is this posted as a story on /.?
Because it will lead to this. It's needed for security. If all citizens are weighed regularly and entered into the database, anyone overweight can be put on the no fly list.
That's definitely ./ stuff to squabble about.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
If he's planning on using his nerd cred to an advantage, I think he's in for a surprise. Every time I've seen the topic of fat people on planes come up on the internet, the rage is overwhelming. Geeks have a reputation for being fat, but I think it's a somewhat undeserved one. Geeks like problem solving, and once we decide being fat is a problem we usually do something about it. Unlike most people. Which makes us really, really, unsympathetic to people who choose to not only remain inactive about it but also complain.
Everything will be taken away from you.
Great! The fat community modded my post down to oblivion in a few minutes. I hope you guys die of cardiac arrest for that.
I felt this was an opportune time to ask him to do the truffle shuffle and post it on Youtube. Seriously, if he's officially now a famous fatty, I felt it was the least I could do.
Why is he not flying first class on a different airline?
I'd say it's about time that a captain of a major airline has finally stood up for himself and his job. In the event of an emergency the crew of the aircraft is required to be able to get all of the passengers off the aircraft in a short period of time (90 secs? someone correct me on this one). Someone who barely fits down the aisle certainly would hold that up, so it WOULD be a safety risk. In the end it is the captain of the aircraft that is responsible (legally) for the safety of the flight, and he's the one who gets canned if something goes wrong. The airlines have no willingness to support the decisions of the pilots they employ and who they entrust to make safety decisions, they need to stop apologizing for the decisions that are made to ensure the safety of the rest of the passengers.
FTFY.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Well, fat people are quite nice to embrace. All soft and squishy.
From: http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/not-so-silent-bob
Not So Silent Bob
Sun, 02/14/2010 - 14:57 — Christi Day
Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight. It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you. We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines.
As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well.
Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank – as he’s been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.
You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.
They have those setups in the airport that provide information on maximum carry-on luggage dimensions, and state that your carry-on luggage must fit inside it.
They should have the same for passengers. Have a single, coach seat setup next to the carry-on baggage setup, just to judge dimensions. Any rollover, and you are charged extra ;)
Though from your contemptuous tone I'm guessing you're one of those few people who DOESN'T try to accomodate people in armchairs or blind people.
Ahem....
Just work this out. Let everyone fly if they want to. Stop picking on fat people. Yes there are practical hurdles or considerations. Just work them out. Sheesh.
Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
Regarding Southwest, they do not make a profit by selling the extra seat. If the flight is not full (98% of the time, according to their FAQ), they refund the extra seat. if the flight IS full, then some other customer lost their seat and was issued a voucher in addition to a seat on another flight.
Way to go SW.
As someone that often has to sit next to one of these disgusting landwhales, I would be HAPPY to pay extra for the comfort knowing that I would NOT end up having to sit next to one ever again.
Like you pay extra for extra luggage, allow me to pay extra to avoid the landwhale lottery.
I.e. special tickets that are guaranteed to NOT be seated next to one of these disgusting circus freaks.
These tickets could even come with a picture of a crossed-out whale. As soon as one of the fatties approach the seat next to you, you show the freak your no-landwhale ticket and that fatso can not sit next to you.
Those fat fscks should not fly to start with. They should walk to their destination to burn off some of that fat.
The captain makes the decision on whether to fly, yes. And his word is pretty powerful in the air. But he does not have carte blanche. He is responsible for the decisions and if his airline considers it unreasonable they are well within their rights to take disciplinary action.
The poor guy probably wasn't being unreasonable in this case, but Smith isn't doing anything inherently wrong by complaining about it.
That pic is from 2007.
Have you seen him lately?
http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/1/2008/11/Rogen_Kevin_Fat_Guys.flv.jpg
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Maybe he bought it on the internet. As far as I know, your computer can't tell how fat you are. Yet.
Maybe now they'll require you to have a webcam, so you can stand-up and have some person on the other end check you over...
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Not that I necessarily agree with Southwest's policy (and I'm a fairly small person: 5'2", 120 lbs), but it's not a weight issue. It's an armrest issue. If you're grossly overweight, but can get the armrests down and not spill over into the other seats, you're fine. If you need a seatbelt extension, you're fine. The only issue is spilling over into the other seats with the armrests down. It can happen to a very wide, but not very fat person. It doesn't matter if he weighs 235 or 555; get the armrests down and don't spill over. Apparently, they didn't follow their own policy in this instance. The armrests were up when he sat down and didn't bother to put them down. They decided he couldn't get them down without ever checking them. It's happened several times, but this is the first "celebrity" to whom it's happened. Check out The Consumerist on this issue.
The link is slashdotted, but here's the text...
Not So Silent Bob
Sun, 02/14/2010 - 14:57 — Christi Day
Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight. It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you. We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines.
As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well.
Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank – as he’s been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.
You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Here's the text:
Not So Silent Bob
Sun, 02/14/2010 - 14:57 — Christi Day
Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight. It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you. We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines.
As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well.
Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank – as he’s been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.
You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
some people just have big bones.
And then some people are just fat.
The size of his head. Other passengers would have obviously been harmed by the bulkinesses of his inflated ego trap if there were any turbulence. I commend the captain for keeping those surrounding him safe.
Big fish, small pond. Sexually active in a nerd pond. Thin in a nerd pond. Yes, nerds tend to be fat virgins.
I hope you die from small murderous screaming children. Or midgets.
I have to wonder why "entertainment"? And yes, if your arse hangs out over two or three seats, yes, you're too fat to fly in cattle car. Sorry, but you're not "big boned" 'cos there's no such thing as an "arse bone". I'm no lightweight myself, but when I sit in a seat I can (if I'm on the aisle) lean out and not encroach on the next seat and people can still walk past me.
When one butt-cheek can take up the whole seat, get two seats or buy first class.
Don't like it? Then stop eating so much and start exercising.
I'm clinically obese. I'm 5'10" and I weigh 220 lbs. I should weigh about 175. Lugging an extra 45 lbs. up to 30,000 feet is a helluva waste of fuel. Anyone who has ever flown in a small plane knows that you have to balance the plane out and be very concerned about weight allowance before takeoff. Kevin Smith should just suck it up and take his lumps on his rolls. It's time we charged porkers like him and me for not pushing away from the table. Until then, pass me the Cheetos and kindly fuck off with all your politically correct whining and moaning.
*** Don't be dull.***
And now we know the REAL reason the airlines want full body scanners.
"Sorry sir, but according to the 3-D scanner, the computer has determined you will not be able to board the plane with 1 boarding pass."
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
Kevin has gotten ridiculously fat in recent years. Funny that the guy really has turned into a "Lunchbox" or "Fat F*ck".
Suck it up Kevin and get on a diet.
if you read the Southwest response: http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/not-so-silent-bob
It looks like Mr. Smith normally purchases a second seat for himself when he flies Southwest, but went on an earlier flight (flying standby) where an extra seat wasn't available. The pilot determined he could not fit in a single seat and did what he deemed best for the comfort of the passenger next to him. I can understand the anger, but it seems by his own admission that he needs (or at least is more comfortable in) two seats normally, and that since there was not an additional seat available, the pilot decided it was the right time to follow Southwest policy.
Since none of you have actually mentioned this. I don't believe that Mr Smith would be travelling in coach or business class. I am sure that he has enough money to travel first class. Now not being rich myself I can't say for sure that they get a seat that doesn't touch anybody else. Maybe the adverts on TV are lying and that first class is much the same a coach. Somehow I doubt it though. Hell maybe Mr Smith is tight and careful with his money and does travel coach. What do I know.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flamebait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
Aparently he's some fat guy.
Meh, lose weight you fat prick.
Doesn't that rather depend on how tall he is?
You can taunt this guy at you own risk (I warn you, he's probably fast enough to catch you). Or either of these jolly chaps.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
and now being kicked off a plane, what will take to convince that tubby bastard that it's time to slim down? A heart attack? People of his weight don't get a "warning" coronary event. The first one is the last one, and that's it.
for being a fat ugly bastard
There's being fat, and there's being stupid. One of which IS curable, sadly for you it ain't stupidity.
If Kevin Smith was thrown off the plane, then Southwest would have to bar most Americans.
...and some people are just assholes incapable of empathizing with anyone other than themselves.
So maybe he should lose some weight rather than complaining about it.
meh
We'll give some seats to the chinks and the niggers, but we don't want the Irish.
In simple terms: you're full of shit.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Most air freight shippers use dimensional weight to charge extra on high volume/low mass items. Charging by weight alone won't recover the costs of shipping lightweight items. For example, a pound of popped popcorn will cost more to ship than a pound of popcorn kernels.
Typically, a shipper assumes that typical freight has a nominal density of about 0.2 gm/cm^3 ... packages with a lower density than this will be charged more.
Of course, humans have a density of about 1gm/cm^3, so we wouldn't be charged extra, should we decide to be shipped airfreight.
The seat I, not they, paid for.
Yes, it's not right to sneer at people for being fat, whether it's their fault or not. It's perfectly all right to sneer at someone for stealing someone else's seat.
If you need two (or three...) seats buy them. Don't steal from your neighbours.
It is their fault for not paying for the amount of space they need.
Airlines have overcrammed more seats into each plane than the original designers would have believed possible. When people complain, they respond with "You're freakishly tall," or "You're mbidly obese," when the real answer is "The airlines are so greedy they're cramming so many people into their cargo hold it would make a slave trader of old boggle."
My 5'2", 100lb mother-in-law complains that they've made the seats too small to be comfortable, and she's been flying for 50 years. Do we really think the problem is Kevin Smith is too husky?
How about this for an answer? Let's make airline seats the same size and legroom as movie theater seats and see if the problem goes away.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
If you need two seats, buy two seats. He needs two seats (which he admits, because he usually does), but only bought one.
We're not picking on fat people. We're picking on people who steal from the people next to them.
"Customer of Size"? Is that like "People of Color"? Has political correctness come so far that you can't even call someone a fatass any more? I'm with Southwest on this one. Brilliant director or not, if I had to spend an "Evening with Kevin Smith" squished up against him in a coach-class seat, I would not be happy and would be demanding my ticket price back. They tried to accommodate his special request to fly early and couldn't. He should graciously accept their apology (it's more than he would have gotten from me).
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
He normally buys double seats due to his width.
This time he was on standby and there was no double seat for him. To prevent the person next to him from suffering the overflow they made him take the next flight and gave him $100 for his trouble.
He knew the rules, this just makes a whining, self-entitled asshole.
No sig today...
I don't have much sympathy for all these fattys. They are everywhere - but there seem to be more in certain parts of America than anywhere else. When I am an the states and I see all these ridiculouly large SUVs I always think it they bought it to haul around some ridiculously fat ass.
From his 2007 blog: "Lemme tell ya’ something: if I weight 230, I wouldn’t be blogging about losing weight; I’d be stuffing my fat maw with starches and sugars in a veritable orgy of food, glorious food. I dream of being 230. 230 is a months-away, pie-in-the-sky quasi-pipe-dream."
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
How exactly does one empathize with one's self?
Wheelchairs I mean.
Of course its ok if the airlines have cut back both the width of the seats and the space between the rows in order to pack in more cattle. Thats ok, despite the fact that over and beyond the obesity problem people in general are getting taller and heavier. Sure, sell by the seat or sell passage by the pound, but dont cut back on the space and then punish the people who were dumb enough to fly them in the first place.
People are three dimensional but there's only a power of two in the equation. It only works if you're average height (and even then it's dubious, as you've already observed).
BMI is *junk*. Spread the word...
No sig today...
I'm a geek and I didn't (and still don't) know who Kevin Smith is.
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=who+is+kevin+smith
Armchair, the fatties mode of transportation.
A geek that doesn't know how to google something?
Not much of a geek.
Barely better as a troll.
Try harder :)
I hope people like Kevin manage to shame (or regulate) airlines into minimum seat dimensions. I'm not fat and I'm pretty short. So I have no problems fitting my butt or my legs into coach. But what gets me is the shoulder room. I need both armrests and then I'm still hanging one arm out into the aisle. If they spread the seats out enough for Smith's ass, I might be able to stop sitting sideways.
Airbus isn't as bad as Boeing. Boeing must have a bunch of anorexic girls as ergonomics models.
Have gnu, will travel.
If people spent as much time dieting and exercising as they do whining about how cruel the world was, this wouldnt be an issue
In all but most cases , a person's girth is directly related to how much crap they eat and not some hormonal/hereditary issue
Stop tweeting and put the fork down
I do believe it's called a conscience? Well... unless you're a sociopath... So... next movie is Chasing SWA? Airport Rats? Could do an Airline Clerks....
Whoa there dude! Check your keyboard, somebody might have slipped you a Dvorak.
What I wonder is why the heck KS would be flying standby. Was he late in booking or something? It's not like he should lack funds to pay for a flight and had to go with the cheaper option...
Many of the Slashdotters mocking fat people are young men with bad eating habits. Give them a few years and they'll be laughing out of the other side of their jowls.
As it is, allowing huge fat Americans to fly on the same plane, and for the same price, as little Asians is blatant racism designed to force the tiny Japanese and Chinese people to subsidise Mr and Mrs Fatso from Arkansas.
At the check in, a passenger should be made to stand on the scales along with all their luggage, and they should be charged in proportion to the total weight.
What are the airlines running? Some kind of fantastical socialist utopia where everyone is equally thin regardless of how fat they are? This is madness.
If you're fat never try to be nice and buy two tickets because the one time you don't you'll get screwed.
Another fat cunt American bitches about not being able to fly. Yawn.
Take what ye can. Give nothing back!
"I would be HAPPY to pay extra for the comfort knowing that I would NOT end up having to sit next to one ever again"
If you're happy to pay then just by a second ticket next to you. Problem solved. Unless of course you just wanted to pay to insult "fatties". In that case, see them after the plane lands - they might be willing to let you insult them for a few benjamins.
I realize I'm posting late to a popular thread, but there's an issue I'd like to address here. I see a lot of comments saying essentially "fatties are that way because they choose to be". Aside from the fact that "fatties" is a perfect example of the fact that obese people are the only remaining demographic of which it's perfectly acceptable to abuse, obesity is not always a choice.
Let me state that another way for the thinking-impaired: I don't choose to be fat, but I am. And there ain't jack I can do about it, short of expensive cosmetic surgery.
OK, you're asking "How, fatass, can you be fat? Surely exercise and diet can overcome these things?"
There is a condition known as "hypothyroidism". There are many causes; in my case it was an auto-immune disease known as "Grave's Disease". It caused my body to attack my own thyroid gland - a gland in the neck that secretes thyroid hormone, which controls most of a person's metabolism. The reaction from the thyroid is to over-produce thyroid hormone, sending your metabolism into overdrive. When I was first diagnosed, I was recently out of the Army, and had been very fit, about 185lbs of muscle (on a 5'8" frame). I went to my doctor because I lost 30 lbs - down to 155lbs - and my resting heart rate had skyrocketed to 120beats per minute. They tested me, and told me that if it wasn't corrected, I would have an extremely elevated risk for heart failure. The treatment is to take a simple, $12,000 pill made of radioactive iodine. The thyroid converts iodine into thyroid hormone, so the vast majority of iodine in your diet is drawn to the thyroid. The radiation then kills off a portion of your thyroid. There is also a surgery, but since the thyroid is wrapped around the nerves controlling your vocal cords, and the slightest nick can paralyze them - so it's not done much anymore.
The problem with this treatment is that they cannot get the "dosage" of the radioactive iodine exactly correct. In most cases, they over-compensate, and kill off too much thyroid. This happened to me. My metabolism slowed to a crawl. They replace the missing thyroid hormone with a synthetic version, which is supposed to do the same thing. Problem is, medical studies have shown that it doesn't. They test your required dose of synthetic hormone by testing for a different hormone, TSH - "Thyroid Sensing Hormone". Basically, another gland in your brain checks your body for thyroid level, and if it's too low, it sends out TSH to trigger your thyroid to create more thyroid hormone. Turns out, though, that synthetic thyroid hormone is detected as real thyroid hormone by that gland - causing it to normalize the level of TSH - but it doesn't actually do the job that the real thyroid hormone does - raising your metabolism.
End result - I take $400 (after insurance) of medicine per year that doesn't do jack, to keep my TSH level "normal", and my metabolism is still crawling. I weigh about 260lbs now. I eat sensibly, get exercise, but none of it does any good at reducing my fat. Only way I could really lose it would be through liposuction. And I'm not alone. Anyone who has this condition will tell you the same thing.
Poor means hoping the toothache goes away.
that most fat geeks haven't decided that being fat is a problem, so they aren't doing anything about it.
Maybe you are remembering him from his clerks 1/2 days? A quick search turned up this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzvlLyHV4s0
That's quite obese ...
...and some people are just assholes ...
Fat assholes!
Knowledge doesn't cure stupidity? Who knew?
What was Kevin's weight/height? I mean I've seen a lot of subjective options here as to what it's like to fly next to someone who is spilling over into your seat. How it's unfair that a 5 year old has to pay a full fair because they are taking up a full seat but weigh next to nothing compared to an adult. Blah blah blah.
Look, during my real hardcore WoW days was at least 250 lbs. and I stand 6' tall. I've leaned up to 190 lbs. but you know I still fill those airline seats up pretty damn much the same way. (For those who don't understand how the male body stores it's fat, it is not just right to our guts. Look at any obese persons face and think about it.) And I'm quite sure I could have easily packed on another 50 lbs. and not made that much a difference in my presence to the people next to me from 250 -> to 300 at 6'.
My point is that I've yet to see the real reason that Kevin, given that he freaking eventually flew the same airliner to his destination, was booted from the flight in question. I suspect that it had nothing to do with his weight but lets clear that up so that we can get down to what really happened.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
places where you put your bag to check if its too big for carry on. Just have another one for fat people. If you cant fit in then buy extra seats.
If you're a U.S. federal government employee, if you're willing to go through the embarrassment of the process, if you have the medical certs from doctors, you can get your condition of being morbidly obese declared a "disability" subject to "reasonable accommodation." Under normal circumstances, that means you get a uprated, wider office chair. (Actually, you can usually get that by just asking. Reasonable accommodations are generally intended for people with more obvious problems. To wit: If your vision is bad, you can get a big monitor. If you're blind, you can get a braille monitor. If you use a wheelchair, you can get an automatic door opener installed on the door you use the most. Etc., etc., etc.)
While I've never seen this done with any normal line-level grunt, I have seen a morbidly obese executive who traveled a great deal get the "reasonable accommodation" of a first class seat for every flight.
I guess there's always a solution if you're willing to pay for it.
Coach seating would use Kate Moss as a benchmark of the average airline passenger and anyone larger would have to buy two (or more) seats.
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
While I'm sympathetic to Southwest's customers on this, and I understand Smith's embarrassment, we're going to see a lot more of this because both airlines and passengers are at fault. People are getting fatter... not just in the US either... and at the same time, airlines are trying to squeeze every last penny of profit out of a flight. That means cramming as many paying customers into one plane as possible. People complain "why do airlines treat us like cattle in a truck"? Because they make more money that way. People aren't willing to fly at premium prices unless they're rich. That means that if airlines want the general public as customers, they have to offer lower fares, but they have to make it up on passenger volume.
When the new Airbus superjumbo was being designed, the company bragged about how much room it would have for passengers to stretch out. But as soon as the airlines got a look at it, they immediately started planning on how they could cram more seats in. The Asian airlines in particular talked about how they were going to shoehorn in 800 seats.
With fatter people and smaller seats, it's going to get to the point where non-fats are going to want to buy two seats, just for self comfort.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
That doesn't make those other people less fat now, does it?
Is that really so hard?
I'm having terrible visions of ticket agents playing Tetris to figure out whether or not a plane is overbooked. One of them calls out over the airport public address system: "Is there a tall skinny person who wants to fly to Dallas? I need a tall skinny person!"
He just did it. I've done much the same. (minus the alcoholism)
But it's a lot of work, so there's no cause to pick on people who haven't managed to get it done.
Nor is there any excuse for stealing your neighbour's seat, which is what this is really about.
Unless you're so addicted to them that you can't set them aside during a flight.
people in armchairs
Quite right, too! Lazy bastards.
I'll agree not to butcher yours, if only you'll do me the same courtesy.
I was squished against a window by some fat guy on my way into Dallas on southwest
Immediately request an aisle seat, this is a safety issue.
The last thing you need is to be crawling over some fat guy should you be required to deplane quickly.
Inside every fat person there is a thin person and a lot of chocolate...
Big boned is just another way of saying 'it isn't my fault I eat too much'. There is no such thing in reality. If you start overeating at an early enough age you will develope a larger frame to suit your fat body.
Most of us have watched the fatty squeezing down the aisle and dreaded the idea of them sitting next to us. Why should I have to put up with someone like him taking up my space on an already cramped airline seat?
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Bowling shoes come in different sizes, so why don't seats? People are different sizes, deal with it! Fuck "one size fits all". At least have a few larger seats reserved for larger passengers.
Table-ized A.I.
I have. I used to be a fatty. I did something about it. It was a lot of work, and even more time.
It's not something that can be changed at the drop of a hat, like smoking. Further, even if you do change what put on all the weight, you'll just stop gaining it, not lose it. It's not like smokers have to unsmoke all the cigarettes they've had.
Perhaps somebody should form Hermit Airlines for slashdot readers. Nothing but sealed booths with web access.
Table-ized A.I.
Knowledge cures ignorance, not stupidity. Ignorance is when you don't know, stupidity is when you don't think. What muddles the issue is that they both have the same outcome, and people who are knowledgeable are generally not stupid (the brain can be "exercised" and made fit, like a muscle) - so in a roundabout way, you're right.
I'm not buying it.
I think the logical solution to this whole mess is make all the seats larger and just charge a little more. Mind you, planes are getting bigger and bigger, cramming more and more seats into a tin can. So why not just have fewer seats per plane, make the seats and aisles wider, and charge a little more per seat? Have a "big and tall" section on the plane, even if it's a couple rows, or hell, make a whole airline based on this...Fatfuck Air.
Seriously, I don't have a problem with fatasses sitting next to me on planes as long as they aren't being obnoxious or smell bad. What I do have a problem with are screaming babies and kids that won't shut the fuck up the whole trip, or morons who tell me their life story, or if I'm on the aisle seat and have someone who is constantly in and out of their seat.
You can be taught to think - this is what good theory of knowledge classes should teach.
Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
He buys two seats because he hates people and doesn't want to have anyone sit next to him and if you actually read his twitter, you would find out that he can fasten the belt with no extension and sit with the arm rest done.. Ass..
So, according to the survival of the fittest... the fit survive and the weak die off, right?
So we have a trend where people "weigh more than they should", right?
But if we admit it is evolution since it is an inbred trait... for most of use...
Shouldn't obesity not be a problem but just evolution in action?
It should read "Fat pig thinks everyone should make special accommodations for him because he's too busy stuffing his face to realize the world doesn't revolve around him". Thanks.
1. Charge passengers by weight.
2. Provide meals on every flight that fatties like
3.???
4. Profit!!!
He normally buys double seats due to his width.
This time he was on standby and there was no double seat for him. To prevent the person next to him from suffering the overflow they made him take the next flight and gave him $100 for his trouble.
He knew the rules, this just makes a whining, self-entitled asshole.
He's not complaining about the fact that the rules exist. Obviously he didn't mind, since he consistently buys double seats. He's complaining that they let him board the plane and THEN kicked him out. They could have just not seated him and it would be fine.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Cramming as many people into an airplane as they can and everyone blames people larger than a supermodel for cramped seating?
I remember the good old days when I had leg room in coach and my shoulders were not wider than the seat.
...only God must be a little deaf.
They're starting to make theater seats the same dimensions as coach seats.
"it is not that bad."
And yet you're calling it the Goat Locker?
"It was Hell. It was a little warm."
Pick one. Either it's a goat locker, or it's not that bad. Which is it?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Kevin Smith's side of the story is up if you care to give it a listen http://smodcast.com/smods/smodcast106.html . It sounds like there are some pretty big douchebags working at SouthWestAir.
How about this? Can we agree that the airlines have made seat sizes too small when the cramped spaces begin injuring their passengers? Can we agree that the airlines have made seat sizes too small when they begin killing 300 passengers a year?
Now google DVT for me.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
...and some people are just assholes ...
Fat assholes!
or worse: GOATSE assholes!
(There- corrected it for ya...)
- Ecsad Essemal
The Hexadecimal TV-REMOTE!
Whenever a big fatty complains about genetics, I always think of the Biggest Loser.
They all manage to lose weight. They lose weight in proportion to the exercise they do.
Sure they find it challenging, that's why it's a workout. But they all lose weight, regardless of their genes.
If someone asks you about this, look them in the eye and shout out very LOUDLY- 6 or 7 times:
I WE TODD ED!
.
- Ecsad Essemal
The Hexadecimal TV-REMOTE!
I did like his indie type movies in the past. Anyway, he has a new Bruce Willis movie due in theaters in a couple weeks. It's odd that his Twitter page has it as a background. He did take a big hit in pay to keep it R-rated! Yeah! [rollseyes] Good luck Kevin, you are getting pretty unhealthy. I hope you will be able to lose 200lb. in the near future.
What's public transportation got to do with it?
Bow-ties are cool.
The more common wording is "Too big to fail", which can be used to mean "Too big to whatever". Too big for anything is not a good thing these days.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
Why don't the airlines make a few "XL" sized seats, which they could even sell at a premium (like business class, only they'd be in coach)? If nobody paid extra, the airline would have to sell them at regular prices. That way people like Mr. Smith could reserve them (if they were still available).
So it seems.
This sig has been distributed under the Creative Commons license.
>Most of us have watched the fatty squeezing
>down the aisle and dreaded the idea of them
sitting next to us. Why should I have to put
>up with someone like him taking up my space
>on an already cramped airline seat?
Because you didn't pay for a First Class ticket, plebe, so suck it. ;) Seriously, when you fly on a budget ticket or on a budget airline you have to expect getting crammed in next to...whoever. That's what makes it cheap. You never hear about anyone getting ejected from First Class for being too fat, because they don't pack you in like you're on the Middle Passage.
You seem to want First Class elbow room at steerage prices. For that you can't blame fat folks, you can blame your cheapness or poorness. Pony up the cash for guaranteed elbow room, or shut it; don't blame other people for YOUR problems.
Seriously, Kevin Smith isn't even very overweight. He's actually lost weight relative to how he looked in his earlier films, so I doubt he even qualifies as "obese" just "overweight". To kick him off a flight for his weight is a sign that the anti-fat hatred and discrimination we see among some in society has gone way too far. It's bad enough that we bombard people with unrealistic body images constantly on nearly every TV show, film, and magazine, which makes people (esp. women and young people) of "normal" body weight self-conscious; but, to promote outright discrimination and therefore hate of overweight people, even the slightly overweight like Kevin Smith, is unacceptable. We're not talking about the rare 500-lb. person who really does need to buy an extra seat to have adequate room, just an average overweight (and therefore, studies show, longer-lived relative to the underweight or even "normal") person.
I for one am glad the average weight in the U.S. is ballooning. Not only does it make me look more attractive relative to others, it makes discriminatory folks like you uncomfortable, and part of an endangered group of bigots. Fat people are one of the few minorities it's still "okay" to bully--but it's not right to bully anyone, least of all based on appearance, socially awkward behavior, or other shallow criteria. You'd think folks on Slashdot, especially, would be past the bullying stage, but I guess some people in any group will always hold social progress back...
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."--Andrew Jackson
There is no such thing in reality. If you start overeating at an early enough age you will develope a larger frame to suit your fat body.
Not true. Genes have much to do with frame size, though being "big boned" doesn't translate into big differences in weight, so you are right that it is not an excuse for being overweight.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
The actual problem is more that they seated him, on the plane, despite knowing that he had paid for 2 seats and that there was only one seat available.
SW shouldn't have put him on the plane - that's even what Kevin Smith says. However, having put him on, having the pilot come and throw him off is ridiculous.
"Software is too expensive to build cheaply"
He knew the rules, this just makes a whining, self-entitled asshole.
A typical example of the US as seen by people from other countries. I have actually met some decent Americans. sadly the majority that appear to have overseas visitation provileges are buttheads.
Maybe fat people should be channeling their frustration into something useful.....Like losing weight.
Honestly, ranting about it on your blog or to a reporter isn't productive. Getting off your fat ass and walking around the block IS.
Seriously, getting pissed off about your situation isn't going to accomplish anything, except telling people that you would rather bitch, whine, and complain about all the problems that being obese is causing you rather than actually working to better your health by exercising and eating healthy.
YOUR fat is YOUR problem. Why should everybody else have to change to accommodate your obesity instead of YOU doing something to change your obesity?
Exercise and eat healthy. Your heart, and the rest of us, will thank you for it.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
When the plane crahes, Fat Bob will change to Ballistic Bob and take out all the passengers in front of him - when he launches out of his seat., taking the seat and it's mounts with him...
And no transformation from Fat Bob to Ballistic Bob will be complete without becoming BLEVE Bob -
Cause half a ton of hot lard bouncing around inside a plane, will become an explosive fire hazard.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLEVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvThP6zdfMw
Face it Lard Arse - your a hazard.
.
Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.
Most of us have also smelled the skinny person walking down the aisle, dreading that we'd be spending time within 5 rows of him/her let alone next to us.
Why should we have to put up with the person making us want to vomit or have an allergic reaction to their shower of perfume?
If you’re too fat, too dumb, too ugly, etc, then making your life easier, is unfair for everybody else.
Fair is, to treat everybody the same. Which means no special seats for fat people.
I’m also quite round. But I don’t expect the government to make up a law to force women to find that attractive.
I just have to either lose weight, or work harder. That’s fair for all those who already worked harder, to not become fat.
Besides: Other than someone who is born with half a brain, looking like Quasimodo (who will really have a hard life), we can always just eat less (and stand the pain of getting used to it). He doesn’t have that choice.
I wonder when “political correct” has become “to discriminate against every healthy successful person”...?
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Inside every fat person there is a thin person ...
Only one??
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
We invented multiple personalities for a reason.
For us, it's not about empathy, it's just to have a few sane people to talk to. We have very interesting conversations.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Coming from a guy named couchslug...
Flying on KLM (the Dutch national airline) which has the narrowest seats I've ever seen on any plane from Amsterdam to Singapore, I was placed in between two Swedish body builders. This was a 20 hour flight! At the time, I wasn't very thin, at 5'10", 170lbs, but I wasn't overly large either.
I asked the two gentlemen if they'd be kind enough to sit beside one another so I could either have the aisle or the window, using the excuse that "I don't like flying much and would appreciate sleeping as much of the flight as possible, and their conversation would hinder that." They told me, "Well, you see, we don't fit too well sitting side by side in coach."
So they intentionally sat with a seat in-between them knowing perfectly well that they were almost guaranteed to have someone smaller in-between them who's seat they can overflow into. And yet, this didn't appear to matter.
Well, I survived barely... however on the way back, there was an old Dutch married couple who apparently had the same idea... and they were fat. Their excuse was "Well dear, we've been married so long and it's nice to meet new people to talk to". I nearly died, not only did they want to have their fat asses overflowing into my seat, but they wanted to keep me awake too!
This has become such a problem that now, when I'm traveling on a family trip and my sister is going too, I actually wait to find out which plane she's flying on so I can book another flight. She's 5' tall and weighs in a little over 300lbs (by a little, I mean she's not 400lbs yet). I feel sorry for her kids who are also becoming "shapely" as they are growing up because noone should be forced to sit still in one place with their seats overflowed on by another person.
I think airlines should start advertising comfort features in their coach class like "We have arm rests on EVERY seat so noone else's ass can be in yours!", or "We have seats which are REALLY REALLY uncomfortable for large people", or "We only serve vegetables and water on our flights". I would actually fly more often then.
100 KG really isn't all that fat for a man of average height -- it's above average, yes. Kevin Smith is almost certainly far heavier than that. 106kg fits in any reasonably sized airline seat, without an issue.
Kevin is not the victim of sizism, he - and you and I - are victims of a common feature of modern life: perfect procedures, imperfect systems. Issues of how many seats can an airline cram into a cabin and America's eating habits aside, the Southwest policy sounds pretty reasonable. Oversize passengers buy a second seat and get a refund if the plane isn't full. So how does it happen that Kevin get's so far along the chain of events that it causes everyone involved a lot of unnecessary pain and embarrassment? The captain who threw Kevin off the plane was enforcing a procedure. Nobody was taking any responsibility for the system. What happened when Kev bought his ticket? Did a screen come up - before the plug in your credit card number screen - warning Kev that if you're over a certain weight you have to buy two seats? What happened when Kev arrived at the check in counter? Are the check in staff blind? How hard is it to notice that man or woman is 'of size' and won't fit into a seat my eleven year old daughter can barely squeeze into (she's big for her age)? Isn't there a role here for the security staff? It IS a safety issue. Plane skids off the runway a large passenger will have difficulty getting down that rabbit trail called an aisle. Kevin's embarrassment, and the discomfort of his seatmates, could have been avoided at any of several steps along the way. But it wasn't, because everyone is responsible for a procedure, but no one is responsible for the system.
United breaks guitars
Southwest kicks off fat guys
American Airlines is going to charge $8 for a blanket..
who is a husky, but chilly rock star supposed to fly with?
Thank you for a reasoned, cogent post that disagrees with my own. It's a pleasure to be in a civil discussion.
I see your point. However, I simply don't believe the airlines when they constantly cry poverty. I think they're cooking their books to hide obscene amounts of money, in the same way the movie studios claim "Forrest Gump" and "Terminator 2" still haven't broken even, in the same way that Wall Street was crying "the End of the World As We know It" if we didn't give them 700 Billion dollars gift-wrapped, but this year posted record profits.
The airlines made plenty of profit the first half of my life when service was excellent and seat sizes were reasonable. They've been given untold bailouts and subsidies in the past few years, yet their service has plummeted while their rates have increased. Worse still, they're not spending money on maintenance since the average plane in service was manufactured back when cell phones were still the size and weight of bricks. They've exceeded banking and telecommunications to become the most customer-hostile industry on the planet.
However, I am willing to take them at their word. If they really are running "on a razor thin margin," then let's admit the market has failed at this service, and hand this function over to government, like we do roads, fire, police and defense. I would be more than willing to fly on an airline run by either the Navy or the Air Force, and we'd all have the added benefit that for the first time in out history, airline security would be handled by the competent.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Sorry Kevin Smith, but looks like you aren't the biggest loser... At some point, airlines have to draw the line. If you are 800+lbs, should they let you on? Stop blaming others because you are fat.. Your hatred and bitterness only stems from the fact that you are fat and don't have the guts to go on "The Biggest Loser".
Here's a word of advice.. Both Jillian Michaels and Bob Harper are great, give them a call!
Sooo...
Your statement is that all skinny people wear a shit ton of perfume? Where does that even come from? Hmm...
You sound fat.
The original 737 design failed its evacuation test since it exceeded 90 seconds. Boeing's modification to enlarge the front door was at the time sufficient to satisfy the FAA and no new test was made before it got its airworthiness certificate. Every new design of the 737 has referred to the grandfather clause so evacuation tests have been replaced by calculations of crowd behaviour when new airworthiness certificates have been granted. So considering that the 737 is by far the slowest (western) aircraft to evacuate, it's even a little scary to fly one with passengers that are too fat to fit through emergency exits.
What I do wonder is how regulations can forbid children from sitting in exit rows in case they're unable to open the exits yet passengers that wouldn't fit through it, can be seated there. And just one passenger that is too obese to fit through an emergency exit, will in an emergency probably cause the death of many behind.
I simply don't believe the airlines when they constantly cry poverty. I think they're cooking their books to hide obscene amounts of money, in the same way the movie studios claim "Forrest Gump" and "Terminator 2" still haven't broken even, in the same way that Wall Street was crying "the End of the World As We know It" if we didn't give them 700 Billion dollars gift-wrapped, but this year posted record profits.
There's a hell of a difference between a profit of $100million on a margin of 2% compared with a profit of $100million on a margin of 25%.
With the former you don't need very many cockups before you are seriously in the brown stuff. The airlines' argument is that they are firmly in the former category and so therefore at any point in time they have to be fantastically careful with how they operate.
Worse still, they're not spending money on maintenance since the average plane in service was manufactured back when cell phones were still the size and weight of bricks.
I would respectfully disagree with that. They may not be buying new planes, but existing ones will almost certainly be properly maintained. I shared a house for a year with a couple of people on an aircraft maintenance course - by all accounts most of the people on the course were ex-air force and one of the things that most certainly was NOT screwed around with was maintenance.
I am given to understand (though I wasn't on the air maintenance course myself) that the reason flying is pretty safe today is because the industry has spent decades improving their processes to the point whereby poor maintenance is vanishingly unlikely to cause an issue in any first-world airline. Obviously, as I have no first-hand experience, ICBW, but the fact that when planes fall out of the sky it's big news and the cause is almost always something that nobody could reasonably have predicted would suggest that my understanding may be correct.
They've exceeded banking and telecommunications to become the most customer-hostile industry on the planet.
I won't disagree with you there. I don't know where you are in the world (or if any such shows have reached you) but the odd reality show where a camera crew camps out by the customer service desk of an airline in an airport shows very neatly that the general attitude is "The customer is always wrong and there's no way on God's sweet Earth I'll make any effort to help them unless I'm in an unusually good mood, the customer is remarkably polite, particularly considering they've just been pushed off the flight that was going to take them to their own Dad's funeral and I think they're good-looking".
However, I am willing to take them at their word. If they really are running "on a razor thin margin," then let's admit the market has failed at this service, and hand this function over to government, like we do roads, fire, police and defense. I would be more than willing to fly on an airline run by either the Navy or the Air Force, and we'd all have the added benefit that for the first time in out history, airline security would be handled by the competent.
Not sure I follow you there fore a couple of reasons:
1. The theory behind the free market suggests that for commodity goods the price will sooner or later become very close to the cost of production. In other words, margins will get thinner unless you can somehow or other demonstrate you're that much better than the competition. Business and first class seats are classic examples of where airlines are still competing on factors other than cost, because such passengers are generally more concerned about comfort than cost. This hasn't done economy class any favours, however - the difference in cost between business and economy class on any flight which is long enough for the extra legroom to be really worth paying for is absurd.
2. Airline security, AIUI, is mostly handled by the airpo
And some people have big, flabby asses.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
No - you're wrong (and how the heck did you get modded as "insightful"?).. I don't get uncomfortable because there are more fat people in the US. I do hate to sit next to some cow - even if he/she is what would be called "normal" in the midwest these days - on an airline. I'm not asking for first class armroom; I'm just asking that the person next to me doesn't spill over into my seat. I'm an older, big guy myself, but I'm fit, and I'd appreciate it if more people in the US made the effort, too.
And whaa, whaaa, whaaa, about being "bombarded" with unrealistic body images - if they had any real effect on the psyche of overweight people, then perhaps we overweight wouldn't be the new normal.
I live in South America and return frequently to the US. The first thing that I notice when I land in the US is how overweight people are. It's not that there aren't fat people in Brasil, Argentina and Chile; it's just that it's not the norm.
You seem to want First Class elbow room at steerage prices.
No, fatso. I want to fly without your flab invading my seat - thank you very much.
You seem to want First Class elbow room at steerage prices. For that you can't blame fat folks, you can blame your cheapness or poorness.
No, we can blame the really fat guy encroaching onto our seat. The seat that we paid for. The seat that would be fine if it weren't for the guy next to us being really overweight. Airline seats are a certain size. In economy they're pretty small because fares are so damn cheap. Why the hell should I have to pay for a first class seat just to get the elbow room I deserve in economy? This isn't about being poor or being cheap, it's about someone being too fucking big to fit in an economy seat. Let the fat guy spend the cash on a bigger seat in first class. How dare you say it's my responsibility to pay extra cash to accomodate the obesity of someone else. If anyone is being too cheap/poor in this situation it's the fat guy who won't spring for the extra seat that he needs, or one larger seat in a higher class.
You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
He always buys two tickets so he doesn't have to sit next to someone, not because of his size. He was able to put both armrests down and buckle his seatbelt without an extender. If you listen to his podcast (named Smodcast), you will get the entire story. He was seated and buckling in when they removed him. He had been recognized by several people around him. There was a guy fatter than him a few rows back that they did not remove. Then when he got on the next flight, an overweight woman sat in the aisle seat of his row. He had bought two tickets so he was near the window. They took this woman aside and told her that next time she should consider buying two tickets. That was just rude and unnecessary. Unless they have a clear guideline, "you must be able to fit between these two bars while seated", and they implement it consistently, he has every right to complain. He isn't that big. Yeah he says he is fat. That's his self-image, and he is willing to own that and be responsible for it. The way the situation was handled was more of the issue. Some people really are not in control of their weight. Many diseases can cause you to gain body mass. Also many medications will do that as well. My mother was on steroids for her lung disease and that made her balloon out. Once she went off the steroids she went back to her normal size. I try not to judge people or label them. This world would be a much better place if people were less judgmental and more compassionate.
Karma, We don't need no stinkin' karma!
Since he was allowed to fly later ... I wonder exactly how big was that crap he left in the restroom? Certainly, the standards hadn't changed or perhaps he was required to purchase 2 seats?
My sister is overly large, fat, if you will. She buys 2 seats when she flies and brings a seatbelt extension with her. She doesn't travel much.
Because people will tend to focus on the error, rather than the content.
But they would complain about the higher ticket prices.
If you're ok with that, there's a class of seats that are bigger, but more expensive.
In fact I am 6'2", and I was obese at 260 lbs.
Honestly, usually I don't get much of a choice over which fat person I have to sit next to on a plane. However, if I had the choice, it would be Kevin Smith.
Or the fat person who doesn't wash their folds...I'd rather smell shitty teenage perfume then that.
They don't charge you extra for a heavy bag because the total weight has increased on an airline, they charge you extra for a heavy bag because some poor baggage handler has to lift it.
You got a citation for that.....
If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
...since all the fat people are too fat because they choose to, and losing weight is so easy.
And they all became fat knowingly and willingly in the first place, too!
Inside every fat person there is a thin person... slowly being digested....
Mmmmmm, thin person......
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Okay for you guys, maybe. We always end up in some loud intractable debate, and then the ad-hominem attacks start, and Bob knows JUST how to get my goat... (It often leads to fisticuffs.) So, speak for yourselves.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
Southwest: the airline whose fanboys make those of Apple seem like intelligent, rational adults.
I'm curious if they'd apply the 'person of size' rule to (for example) an NFL player who is in NO SENSE obese, but with his massive physique and shoulders would obviously overflow the seat width parameters.
I'm 6'4", and a medium-build 290lbs, so when I see another guy my size sitting in the adjacent seat, I think we both cry a little. I always take aisle seat, not for more legroom (hahah, as if anyone's knees bend sideways) but so if some poor bastard IS stuck in the seat next to me, I can lean 20 degrees out into the aisle so they're not crushed by my shoulders.
-Styopa
SWA is all single-class 737 aircraft. The closest thing to an upgraded class of service you can get is their "business" fare (which they call a "class" but is not in the sense that any other airline uses) that means you get to be one of the first 10 people on board the plane to grab your unreserved seat before the rest of the cattle.
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp
don't confuse carbs with sugars, they are similar, but not the same.
This is the number one reason that obese people are obese. They believe this statement. Carbohydrate and sugar are synonyms. They are the same word with the exact same definition. The medical, health, and government into thinking exactly what this poor sap believes.
http://www.google.com/search?&q=define:Carbohydrates
That fucker is huge! I guess someone had to replace Dom.
I for one am glad the average weight in the U.S. is ballooning. Not only does it make me look more attractive relative to others, it makes discriminatory folks like you uncomfortable, and part of an endangered group of bigots. Fat people are one of the few minorities it's still "okay" to bully--but it's not right to bully anyone, least of all based on appearance, socially awkward behavior, or other shallow criteria. You'd think folks on Slashdot, especially, would be past the bullying stage, but I guess some people in any group will always hold social progress back...
I can almost taste the cheetos dust springing forth from the unseen reaches of your keyboard with each fleshy sausage stab of the keys.
some people just have big bones.
Holy crap, I can't believe you're old enough to type that in. That's a lie reserved for children, PizzaAnalogyGuy, and I've got news for you, you're fat.
BTW, I think ticket prices should be stated as "per pound." which means that at 2 dollars per pound if you weigh 200 pounds and have 50 pounds of luggage your ticket is 500$. Then only sell tickets equivalent to 250 pounds per seat. Then just let the unwashed masses sort out where they sit (obviously the current system works for first class - rich people are thinner and the seats are wider anyways). This prevents embarrassing corporate policies like this and fat guys like PizzaAnalogyGuy are appropriately shamed.
United non-Premium is awful at 6'1".
Southwest isn't too hot; as long as the person in front doesn't go hog-wild with their seat recline you're ok.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
I don't have a study to link you to, but just thought it was fairly common knowledge. Being a follower of college football and particularly, Fresno State I've read interviews with Fresno State coach Pat Hill where he explained that when evaluating recruits he would look at the mother's frame size to evaluate the recruits potential for putting on weight. Being a lower teir school, Fresno State is forced to settle for the recruits that bigger schools like USC, UCLA and Berkeley don't pursue, so Fresno is forced to recruit "potential" and develop it.
Maybe Pat Hill is just practicing voodoo and I am mistaken?
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
What about tall people? Last time I flew, I had no problems with seat width despite being a fatty but my knees were in the back of the seat in front of me and I'm 5'7". Is somebody who's 6'5" too tall to fly? Cuz man, I sat next to a guy who was at least that tall if not taller and he looked like his knees were up by his ears.
Agreed, Kevin Smith is not the smallest of people. However I was merely reacting to the Anonymous Coward's comment.
As for the second line in my comment, that is also true. As big as Kevin Smith is, he seems to be on the slim side of the statistics if I recall, which is why Southwest will now have to kick off a fair percentage of their American passengers for being fat, if this is indeed an example of their policy.
Id's say, if you can sit in the seat, you should be able to fly, or pay for two.
Back in the 70s and 80s, it used to be possible for the Left and the Right to talk about things. It used to be possible to agree on referees to make the calls and which guys will hold escrow on the bets. Progress used to get made. Everyone used to pass what I call "The Titanic Litmus test."
For example, you and I disagree on how much money the airline industry is taking in. You and I could agree on an independent forensic auditor to get to the truth of the matter. You think I'm in for an education. I think you're in for a shock. But at the end of the day, you and I would find a way to agree on how much money was coming in and going out of their doors.
You and I disagree on what the seat sizes need to be, but we could agree that the seats need to be big enough not to cause medical issues with the passengers. We could agree to defer to the orthopedists on this issue, since the question of "How much room does a human body need to travel safely?" should be answered by experts on the human body, not accountants.
Once the orthopedists had given their answer, you and I could agree to run that answer by crash engineers at the FAA and ask them, "How much room does a plane need to safely evacuate passengers in the event of a disaster?"
You and I could agree that the question of seat size should be answered by people who know what they're talking about, not guys looking to maximize shareholder value.
Finally, once we had the real numbers and knew what a reasonable seat size would be, you and I could come up with a fair ticket price. If it turns out that a fair ticket price would not allow a private business to run, then you and I could agree this was a need not served by the private market, and as such it belonged next to mail delivery, road construction, meat inspection, fire, police and defense as a service best provided by the government.
You see, Jimicus, both the Left and the Right used to agree that what we wanted was "to Promote the General Welfare," and not to simply maximize shareholder wealth, i.e. make the rich richer. Back in the 70s, I could ask my counterpart on the Right, "Should the First Class passengers on the Titanic been placed on the lifeboats before women and children?" and they'd answer in a heartbeat, "Of course not, that's disgusting." I call people who answer this way "John Wayne Conservatives," people with integrity and hearts who simply happen to be "the Loyal Opposition."
Unfortunately, "John Wayne Conservatives" are scarce these days, and what terrifies me is that more and more, especially among the young, Conservatives are answering, "Well, those women and children should have bought a first class ticket if they wanted rescuing. You can't expect the shipping company not to take care of its best customers first."
I can find no common ground with monsters who answer this way.
But the monsters seem to be swallowing the John Waynes these days, and I'm at a loss to explain why.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
And those that aren't are almost certainly steroid abusers.
But it seems to me that someone 6'2" and 260 lbs would have to look something like Schwarzenegger in the 80's.
I could be wrong, as I said I was those dimensions and obese, not musclebound.
Someone who looks even remotely like Schwarzenegger is not within a reasonable definition of "everyone". He was way off in the fringe.
Partially because he did abuse steroids.
FYI, I am overweight. I am not going to make up bullshit excuses for it, or act like the world owes me a favor. People like that disgust me.
As I now work with developmental biologists, i can assure you that "your genes" play far less of a role for many things that standard dogma leads us to believe (yes there are plenty of things it does effect). Yes some people will be taller, but this generation is the taller because of better nutrition.
Environmental effects that can have an equally real impact on things. And we are a long way from understanding the transcriptome at the level suggested by these kind of "correlations"
If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
"some people just have big bones." ..Cartman?
... and further, some people are just assholes. Notably, the AC *parents of this post.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
sounds like the title to Micheal Moore's new mockumentry...
This is definitely based on volume and not weight, and I am testament to this.
I'm 6ft tall and 355 pounds. However, on a plane -- even on Japanese planes, which are famous for having smaller seats and restrooms -- I can comfortably fit in a seat with the armrests down. I don't have a lot of room, but an inch or two within boundaries. I require a seatbelt extension, but by no means have to adjust it to the max.
Oh, and I fly coach.
So yes, tall and heavy is treated differently than short and heavy; girth is a huge factor.
If you're so wide that you CANNOT do this, you are taking up more than one seat. If you are taking up more than one seat, you are responsible for paying for more than one seat.