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'Headphone Jacks Are the New Floppy Drives' (daringfireball.net)
According to the Wall Street Journal, Apple's upcoming iPhone won't have a 3.5mm headphone jack. The news has already upset many people. The Verge's Nilay Patel wrote on Tuesday that the decision of getting rid of the legacy headphone port is "user hostile and stupid." Apple commentator John Gruber makes a case for why Apple's supposed move is not a bad idea at all. He writes:Patel misses the bigger problem. It's not enforcement of DRM on audio playback. It's enforcement of the MFi Program for certifying hardware that uses the Lightning port. Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port.He adds that the existing analog headphone jack "is more costly in terms of depth than thickness," and by getting rid of it, Apple could use the extra real estate to stuff in more battery juice. Addressing Patel's point that the move of ditching a deeply established standard will "disproportionately impact accessibility," Gruber adds that "enabling, open, and democratizing" have never been high on Apple's list of priorities for external ports. Gruber also addressed Patel's argument that introducing a Lightning Port-enabled headphone feature will make Android and iPhone headphones incompatible. He wrote: Why would Apple care about headphone compatibility with Android? If Apple gave two shits about port compatibility with Android, iPhones would have Micro-USB ports. In 1998 people used floppy drives extensively for sneaker-netting files between Macs and PCs. That didn't stop Apple from dropping it.As for "nobody is asking" Apple to remove headphone jack from the next iPhone, Gruber reminds: This is how it goes. If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports. The essence of Apple is that they make design decisions "no one asked for".The 3.5mm headphone jack has been around for decades. We can either live with it forever, or try doing something better instead. History suggests that OEMs from across the world quickly replicate Apple's move. Just the idea of Apple removing the headphone jack -- the rumor of which first began last year -- arguably played an instrumental role in some smartphones shipping without the legacy port this year. If this is a change that we really need, Apple is perhaps the best company to set the tone for it. Though, whether we really need to get rid of the headphone jack remains debatable.
They've managed to find a way to force you into buying all new audio equipment, or at the very least, an expensive dongle. It's genius, it really is. You thought it was bad when Apple made hardware companies pay for the right to put that ipod port on there, to provide a better "experience" well... kiss your non apple branded EVERYTHING goodbye. God I hate these guys sometimes. We don't need to replace every piece of technology we own every 2 years you assholes
And just suck it up !! Mmmmm... suck juice!
Wow!
I can replace my $5.00 cheap headphones that I take everywhere with a $60-$120 headphone, that only works on the iOS platform.
OR
I can buy a $30 adapter, to work with my $5.00 headphones, to listen to compressed lossy music.
OR
I can buy bluetooth headphones, but at a 300% markup, because of Apple's bluetooth lock-in.
I can buy a non-apple product, at 1/4 to 1/2 the price, get 2X-4X the functionality, none of the lock-in, and use whatever peripherals I want.
Yep, clearly Apple has the better value, it's more expensive, so it MUST be better.
Definition: see article above.
Plenty of new motherboards with onboard video still have VGA ports, judging by Newegg's and Fry's offerings?
dupe, and even on the same page...
apple wants the $29.99 for old ports wants to be more thin and git even more profit. What is next for the mac pro no analog audio out no e-net no full size usb. But for only $19.99-$29.99 each you can get that back.
It will kill your battery life and/or require you to purchase a bunch of f*cking dongles to charge your phone and use the headphones at the same time. Patel's list is right on the money. Most people can't even hear well enough to differentiate between the quality of analog vs digital and don't use music with that high of a bit rate anyway. Looks like I'm gonna be limited to the iPhone SE when I finally upgrade off my 5. I don't want a huge phablet and I want a god damn headphone jack.
He sees bugs as features. Cool!
Think of how many devices the iPhone integrated into one small housing. A half dozen for the average person and maybe a dozen for techies.
asked for it. Jesus.
Please just do this with usb-c not lightning ... now we're going to be in adapter hell because there's two connector types ...
Apple owns a headphone company, Beats.
Apple wants the power to tell you to use its headphones or get lost.
Apple makes that happen.
Headphone jacks = wired ethernet ports
I often have to used wired ports because of either poor connectivity or overcrowding of the spectrum. I expect bluetooth etc to eventually have the same problem when there are no wired headphones. Copper is good stuff. The radio ether....sometimes not the best!
The real reason....walled garden headphones. Things that only work with apple.... The wonderful world of perfect apple, who knows better than eveyone else. I love iTunes (of course sarcasm. No one is stupid enough to like iTunes).
What ever happened to Apple's patent on a magnetic jack?
The idea was that a normal headphone plug could be placed against an indentation on the phone, and the magnet would hold it fairly securely against the electrical contacts. That would allow it to be thinner and smaller than a normal jack that surrounds the plug.
I'm hopeful that these rumors of not having a headphone jack refer to a regular jack...
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
By the 1990s, floppies were woefully inadequate in capacity and needed to be replaced. In which way is a 3.5 mm analog jack inadequate at delivering audio?
All that bitching and moaning. You Apple fanboys just know that if Steve Jobs were still alive you would be lining up in the street for the new phone audio jack that only worked if you had to painfully shove it into your testicles at least every 5 minutes. Don't bitch about the monster company you helped create.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
This Apple being weird and special again. The reason for ditching floppies was actually quite simple, it outlived its usefulness. It was replaced by CDs, DVDs and at a later time USB-sticks. There is no actual need for floppy disks and therefore FDDs are obsolete. This is however not the case for the 3.5mm jack. Apple likes to "innovate" by removing sensible things from their electronics. Their new Macbook, for instance, has only one single usb-c port and no other ports. You can call this strategy brilliant but in practice this means that people have to buy an extra adapter to connect all their peripherals to the one single usb-c port. It's not an improvement, it's a cashgrab and an annoyance. And naturally the Apple customers are gobbling it up.
The same holds here. What's wrong with the standard 3.5mm jack? It works, it's universal(and I believe unencumbered by patents) and the peripherals are everywhere. It's a solution that works and any "better" idea on audio should at least be included side-to-side with the old adapters as this will allow an actually better standard for audio ports to form. As it is, this is a simple money and power grab from Apple by making stuff incompatible. Sure, you can buy a converter, but knowing Apple this will cost you dearly. Apple is being annoying again and the audio peripheral market will suffer as this will gain traction as Apple has clout in the electronics world.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Why in tech must we call everything old "legacy" and then assume it should go away? Maybe some thing work well enough that they should always be there. Some things are well designed and don't need to be changed. The 3.5mm port is resilient, rotatable, and universally supported, and only slightly bigger than the latest tech now would be able to replace it with.
Just because it is analogue does not make it irrelevant. Your ears are analogue. Why add another level of technology, another thing to charge, putting a digital-to-analogue converter on every pair of earphones rather than just one in the phone...
I remember having to have an adapter for headphones on the T-Mobile G1 and old Nokia phones, and it sucked then, and it will suck now. And so what if Apple release lightning headphones. Do we think they make the best headphones? They make crap headphones when compared to actual audio companies.
This Apple apologist doesn't even try to make is sound good, just that Apple are going to do it anyway so you might as well get used to it.
USB-C and Lightning headphones aren't great news for everyone:
Phones are digital devices, and headphones require analog input. To solve that, every phone has a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) and an amplifier inside, which do exactly what the names suggest. The DAC converts the signal from ones and zeros to waves, and the amplifier makes those waves audible through a speaker or headphones.
The combination of these two parts (DSPs are also involved, but let's not overcomplicate things) is what makes phones -- or anything with a headphone port -- sound different from one another. If you listen to the same track, with the same headphones, on an iPhone 6S and a Galaxy S7, they won't sound identical, mainly because the two phones use different DACs and amps, which output slightly different analog signals through the devices' 3.5mm ports.
The DAC and amp, then, are the hidden link between your music app of choice and your headphones, and their importance can't be understated. The industry has gotten a lot better with DACs and amps in recent years, and the general standard of audio output from phones has risen, but there are still devices that are stronger and those that are weaker.
With the switch to USB-C (or Lightning) for headphones, your phone's DAC and amp (it'll still need one for the speaker) are being bypassed. That means this all-important component will now reside inside either the adapter (for your existing cans) or the headphones themselves (for USB-C or Lightning headsets).
(((Gruber)))???
They used two different formats IIRC.
Yes, you people desperately need audio that only plays in approved devices, and from approved audio sources only.
What is the rabble thinking when they dare to simply plug their thieving audio jacks to any unapproved speaker, allowing others to hear the music we rightfully own?
Love, RIAA
I have a nice pair of Bluetooth headphones with mic, and as nice as they sound, the lag they introduce is unacceptable. Especially when it's been a few mins and it has to wake the bluetooth connection, it can take a quarter to a half second before I hear something that would have already been played if it were on the built-in speaker or on wired headphones.
When watching video, it makes a big difference, it feels like something is wrong with the file. When using it for voice communication, it makes a small but annoying difference.
It's not just my headphones either, I've tried others. BT headphones (and most likely speakers) suck for anything time-sensitive.
This reinforces my decades old policy of avoiding anything Apple.
All your upgrade are belong to two years from now, when you start listening to your customers in the upper middle class, Apple
We said thin. We said more battery life or wireless near field charging. We said waterproof and bendable.
What was so hard with that?
Listen. To. Your. Customers.
And ask my ex-neighbor, your marketing VP what that means. She knows. Stop listening to the guys from Stanford, they're clueless.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I fail to understand the last comment in the post. How in the world going to a fully proprietary interface shows leadership into finding "something better"? If we go by that reasoning, every manufacturer will go with their own interface, and so there will be chaos. I personally don't want to end up with the hardware equivalent of the mess that is the myriad of proprietary messaging protocols of today. You want leadership to truly do something better? Come up with a standard port and work with others to implement it. The fact that this is detrimental to Apple's business strategy is irrelevant, but at least let's be honest in understanding that there is ZERO innovation on Apple's move, and it is not done to do things better. (Besides, Motorola was first in doing that earlier this year).
They could save 1mm by going to 2.5mm jacks. Those are reasonably standard and would require only a small (and inexpensive!) adapter for older headphones. My Bose noise-canceling headset uses a 2.5mm plug/jack into the actual headphones (cable is removable).
I suspect the loss of this jack may be somewhat related to improving water resistance; those 3.5mm jacks are deep and have lots of potential for leaking.
If this is a change that we really need, Apple is perhaps the best company to set the tone for it.
No. Other companies need to be involved.
3.5mm jacks are proven and they really can take a lot of abuse. I'm guessing that whatever they replace it with would be more fragile and not stand up well to the kind of abuse people wearing headphones are likely to give it.
How long before there is a Kickstarter to build an adapter that plugs into the Lightning port and provides Lightning pass through and a 3.5 headphone jack?
So what Apple is essentially saying is "hey, even though nobody asked us to delete the headphone jack, we're gonna do it anyway. So we can make the phone thinner, which is also something nobody is asking for. Meanwhile, everyone IS asking for greater battery life in our mobile devices, but we don't give a shit because we're Apple. We tell CUSTOMERS what they want and they LIKE it that way!"
Does this not strike anyone else as ridiculously arrogant? Would we tolerate this kind of behavior out of ANY other OEM on the planet besides Apple?
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Which means that you can't plug your earbuds or other listening device in while charging.... oh, unless you have a dongle that will set you back at least another $30... something that will probably *NOT* ship with the iphone.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
All I have been hearing is Apple, Apple, Apple. Yet from Motorola killed the headphone jack and nobody noticed 10 days ago
There are many interesting things about the Moto Z devices presented yesterday, ultra-thin handsets that bring modularity to Motorola’s lineup of mobile products. One of them is the lack of a 3.5mm headphone jack, which absolutely nobody noticed during the event.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
I don't give one hoot about Apple dropping the 3.5mm jack if the are providing a Lightning Port to 3.5mm adapter. The 3.5mm jack is fine in a larger device but it probably does need to go away in a modern, thin phone.
As far as port compatibility that some rant on about, if it means having a micro USB port on my iPhone then to hell with compatibility. I don't know how many broken USB ports I've had to to repair or replace on devices in my shop. The Lightning Port is a far more robust mechanical design.
Kudos to Apple for moving the industry forward!
You can buy a smartphone, with 3.5 mm jack for less than Apple's dongle will cost you.
As it stands they already make great home control panels/security devices. Cheap enough to put one in every room. Low power use and a solid sensor suite.
The problem is really that the headphone jack (really a headphone+microphone TRS jack) is standard, on absolutely everything. It would be like Apple products coming up with their own AC outlet that only Apple products use. The smart people will just buy an adapter, but the principle of the matter is there is no reason to do this what-so-ever.
With regards to the iPhone, removing the headphone port means that you can only use AirPlay or Bluetooth speakers and headphones. It does not make sense, nor has it ever made sense to make headphones and speakers wireless because it introduces latency and requires compression of the audio in the headphones/microphones/speakers. Adding on top of that is the need for batteries.
"Why would Apple care about headphone compatibility with Android?" I have a pair of reasonable headphones. They're about £30. I use them with my phone for music. My PC for music. My iPad for my German learning. I'm not an audiophile, but I find that's the price to get a decent sound. If you're forcing me to have a different jack, it doesn't just mean I've got to carry 2 pairs of headphones around, it also means that I have to buy another pair of headphones (which will be over £30, I'm sure). It means that anyone currently on Android, or who has spent out on good headphones with their iPhone has a new charge for iPhone upgrades, and it's another reason to switch to Android. And personally, I don't understand this fascination with making phones thinner. I'd rather have a slightly thicker phone and more battery life.
I upgraded to a new iPhone 6S earlier this year, rather than wait for the next model, as I didn't want to be without the headphone jack. At least I'll have a phone with one for another 2 years before I'm forced to change... I don't need a thinner phone - I need one with longer battery life.
When I was young, people would talk about the horrors of totalitarianism in Soviet Russia. I guess we only have Apple and North Korea to show us what it looks like now. But as for Apple customers, I have no sympathy: YOU decided to enter the walled garden. Enjoy your toilet paper ration.
In conclusion, John Gruber is an Apple fanboy. Who gives two shits about his opinions?
3.5mm audio devices are just too ubiquitous and inexpensive and, tangling cords aside, convenient in a pinch. It's a dead-simple technology and dirt cheap; I don't think the phone being 0.1mm thinner or an additional 5 minutes of battery life justifies this. I know I will not for the foreseeable future be buying a phone that DOESN'T have a 3.5mm jack. Sure, someday bluetooth headsets with great stereo quality, inductive charging (because what's the point of going to a cordless technology if you still have to plug it in to charge it??!) and super long battery life (>10 hours) may be available for $10 but they're not there today and it'll be some time before they become anywhere near as commonplace as current 3.5mm phone headsets.
Is that if you want to use macOs or iOs, you have to put up with hardware design which turns incompatibily and unmaintainability into an art form. If macbooks were designed like thinkpads, and imacs and mac pros like the hp Z workstation, life with them would be so much easier. Instead Apple has become a shiny toy company whose raison d'etre is to prise as much mone from the expensive end of the consumer market as possible.
John_Chalisque
The entire reason headphone jacks exist the way they do today is you need a DAC and some amplification to send the audio signal to the headphones with appropriate power behind it, particularly when you actually want your music to sound nice.
Do they really expect every damn iPhone user to be wearing Bluetooth headphones? Sorry, but some of us actually dislike audio latency, and enjoy slim, functional headphones.
What a crock. Not all "progress" is needed. The headphone jack has proven itself through countless hours of usage, and Bluetooth has yet to impress outside of edge case needs.
"enabling, open, and democratizing" have never been high on Apple's list of priorities for external ports.
Since the very beginning. Even their serial port was nonstandard.
Ah well, at least the guy is being honest. Corporate psychopathy no longer needs to be hidden from view. The audience is captivated.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Have they considered how this will affect Square and other similar hardware and functionality?
You never expect irony, do you?
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@iyfwrestling
As someone who has a primary source of income via payments on site, not being able to use square or paypal reader... that makes a new apple product DOA for me.
It's not enforcement of DRM on audio playback. It's enforcement of the MFi Program for certifying hardware that uses the Lightning port. Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port.
So yes, it is about DRM: limiting what headphones can be put into the phone. Jerks.
Even audiophiles use standard jacks, so it's not a problem of audio quality.
Also, Apple has a habit of using weird ports, and unlike obsoleting the floppy, the weird ports have been a failure every time (except some designed by Woz back in the 80s).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
We all know these are all excuses for Apple forcing people to but more of it's products.
Of course, without a radio needing an antenna, there's really no point in using wired headphones
You Apple Fuckbois deserve every little piece of totalitarian bullshit Apple deals you.
Well not precisely - one of the early iPhones (I forget which) had the headphone jack recessed in a little hole. Problem was, the hole was big enough for the supplied earbuds but most third party headphones had plugs which wouldn't fit. So an accessory market sprung up for little extenders. It was so dumb, and so annoying.
I'm a somewhat reluctant supporter of Apple in general, but I do really like iOS devices. I like the lightning connector and wish it was used elsewhere (but I hope USB C is a good substitute). I appreciate that they popularized USB in general. But this is just annoying. I can't see myself buying a phone without a standard headphone jack any time soon, so I guess they just lost a customer. Adapters/dongles/whatever are the worst, and I have no interest in messing around with them.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
if you don't want one then don't buy it.
Floppies faded out because people stopped using them once better (as in, improved longevity and capacity) media came around. The new media were still physical and inserted into PC's, so they functioned rather similarly although in some cases you were trading magnetic degradation for scratching or failing dyes in the cheaper CD-R's.
Bluetooth is *not* a 1:1 replacement for regular headphones because
a) It requires power. That means another device that needs charging, and it can run out in inopportune moments
b) It doesn't give the same quality of audio (yes, it can be good, but even I can notice quality loss with BT headphones, usually in the top-end).
c) It requires power from the device. Having BT on - especially playing audio - is a drain on your phone's battery
Currently, I keep a pair of decent quality earbuds (the type with a mic) in my bag. They take up a minimal amount of room, and anytime I want to privately listen to music or have a private conversation I can. I also have a bluetooth headset, but I have to keep it charged up, dick around with pairing, etc before I can use it for a call. It's not nearly so small or convenient as my headphones, and while there are now standalone BT earbuds, with small size comes less battery (plus they're expensive).
Apple designed neither the USB which replaced serial ports (I miss them) nor the various standards (now HDMI) which replaced VGA (I don't really miss that). Apple tried to force their own proprietary interfaces for ages, and almost none of that translated over to the non-Apple world. The reason VGA and RS-232 disappeared had nothing to do with Apple.
Just as many people are putting black tape over their webcams, I also plug in a dummy plug (cut off a broken pair of earbuds, mic line shorted to ground) on my phone and laptop when discussing things I wouldn't like made public. With no headphone jack, we'll be forced to leave our phones outside of earshot when having private conversations.
Maybe I should market a soundproof box to place phones in during private conversations. It would also have an AM/FM radio and recordings of various plausible background noises. Should be less suspicious than putting your phone in a lead lined box or Faraday cage.
A 3.5 mm analog jack is very strong. I have audio devices from the 80's that here heavily used and abused and are still 100% functional. If it's anything like mini USB, the lightning connector will last maybe two years with light use until it breaks causing you to buy a new device.
The old Walkman and MP3 player style headphones use 3.5mm jacks. Phones switched to 2.5mm jacks because in addition to left/right speakers, they also needed to carry a signal from the microphone. If they'd made it 3.5mm, they would've been deluged with complaints that the person on the other end of the call couldn't hear them talking when they had (regular) headphones plugged into the phone. So they made it 2.5mm so there's no way you could mix the two up (which is starting to happen now that some laptops are combining the 3.5mm stereo-out and mic-in ports into a single combo port).
Anyway, to get back on topic, format changes like this make sense when you need to add a required or useful capability that's lacking in the old format. If they're going to replace it with something that relays more info than left / right / mic, then they have a shot of it working. But if they're just trying to move L/R/Mic to a different format, then yeah, good luck with that.
I'm not going back to carrying an mp3 player and phone. When I did all I wanted was to combine them. I'm also not bothering with shitty wireless headphones. I wouldn't buy an iPhone anyway but if this trends not having a jack would remove a phone from consideration straight away.
Wanna buy a shirt?
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Fucking moron.
I'm sure the already *great* battery life of iPhones will only go up now that they either have to constantly power bluetooth, or from powering digital-to-analog signal conversion in the headphones (or more likely, in a $75 dongle that does lightning-to-3.5mm, so you can keep using your already purchased headphones).
Some day, history will look back and realize Tim Cook is basically a less excitable Steve Ballmer - competent operations men good at keeping the trains running on time, and then struggling when asked to start designing the trains instead of running them.
I want to pick headphones that fit and sound right, not have some cheesy overpriced shit like Beats forced on me. if I'm at home, I can use my AKG studios. at the exercise joint, earbuds off the rack at Tarzhay.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Heh, how laughable. Apple could add a lot more battery by making their already beyond-svelte iPhones 1mm thicker. No one is complaining about the phones being too thick any more, but they are complaining about battery life.
But as for Apple customers, I have no sympathy: YOU decided to enter the walled garden. Enjoy your toilet paper ration.
Right. When my 2006 MacBook died a few years ago, I transferred my data over to a Windows PC and continued on. Why? Because I'm using standard formats that interchangeable between Linux, Mac and Windows. If I decide to move away from my iPhone, nothing prevents me from moving to a cellphone with Android, Blackberry or Windows.
"This is how it goes. If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports."
I still am, you insensitive clod!
Seriously, the VGA port on my Thinkpad 450s has been hugely useful for hooking up to legacy projectors, and the serial connection (via USB->DB9 serial adapter) lets me talk to all kinds of random devices. To heck with Apple and their walled garden. I do give them credit for duping their followers into believing they're freedom-loving rebels though.
specifically because they *don't* design macbooks like thinkpads and imacs like HP pcs.
Don't you idiots ever get tired of being so consistently fucking wrong about Apple all the time? Seriously? Do you enjoy looking like a fucking moron on the internet?
What's stopping a third party from making a Lightening to audio jack cable? Thus (again) allowing any headphone to work with the device.
soylentnews.org
Yep if it weren't for Apple we'd still be in the stone age installing windows 10 from 4216 floopy disks. All technical progression such as digital monitors would not happen without Apple.
Except the summary and the comments are a load of bollocks.The floppy drive was being replaced by many people, with efforts on multiple fronts. Apple was the first to remove it as having complete control over their platform meant their system didn't rely on things like floppy disks for recovery.
Let's ignore the people who developed and pushed for USB were Microsoft, Intel, IBM, Compaq, and DEC, ... there's a name missing from the list .... oh no there isn't Apple didn't have any hand in developing the USB successor. But hey the iMac had the first USB port so it must all be Apple's good work.
Speaking of Apple doing things. Which was the only computer company not part of the DDWG who created the successor to VGA? Oh that's right Apple didn't take part. But hey they're the reason we're not using VGA for some reason.
The idiot in the summary is nothing but a troll.
Cords suck. They snag, they fray, they tangle, they slack, they break. They take up space in your pocket, your bag, your shelf. Some are too short, some are too long. Wireless headsets are mediocre at best, it is true. They have a whole bunch of their own problems and many on this thread feel those problems are worse than cord problems. But this is exactly the point. I'm sick of slow advances in wireless and so is Apple. Its time to kick the wireless headset market into high gear and get lots of models from lots of competitors getting iterated multiple times a year and getting cheaper all the time. How do we do that? Simple. Eliminate the 3.5mm jack.
In 1998 the 1.4MB capacity of the floppy was already severely limiting. While there were still a largish number of system being used on a day to day basis that did not have some better alternative available like USB or writable optical of some sort and alternatives like Zip, Jazz, SuperDisk, SyQuest etc were hardly universal and not always even ubiquitous; it was clear to everyone that the floppy was limiting.
There were a lots of jobs where the floppy was perfectly adequate and even the easiest route but in 1998 it was possible to create a word processing document that did not fit on the standard 1.4MB diskette, all you needed was to include a high res picture or two. Once you had a single files to large for a diskette you were down the path of splitting them somehow which usually implied some software your recipient did not have and kill the whole universality thing. So people had good reasons to want to "move on" from diskettes beyond just the fact that Apple did not feel like offering diskette drives as standard equipment anymore.
Compare this with the 3.5mm jack (at least the modified and backward compatible 4 conductor variety that supports mics). It delivers just about everything you could want as far as getting audio headsets. It offers better fidelity than most of the alternative solutions, bluetooth etc. Its possible to run headsets with some smarts and implement signaling like vol up/dn, next track, in devices while still being compatible with cheapo dumb headsets. Its fairly rugged, easy to blow dust out of with canned air, being round a pulled cable usual 'pops out' without damaging either the cable or the receptacle at anything but fairly extreme angles. Essentially if offers me and I think most users just about everything they could want in an audio jack. Unlike the diskette of 1998 its not evident at least not to me that its facing near term inadequacy for any common application.
As to the thickness arguments, well the camera is really still the limiting factor there. The foot print of a 3.5mm jack in smart phone is not preventing larger batters, that is just strait up BS. Once you already have to have a bump out to accommodate the camera, I am not sure making the rest of the device thinner than that adds value, especially when almost everyone puts these things in some kind of protective box anyway. Most people I talk to use a case not only for protection but because the thing is so thin its actually akward to hold and operate one handed without it!
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Rather than having the phone send out an amplified analog signal, if the phone sends out a simple digital stream it would use LESS - not more - power. With a dongle it would use the same amount as it does today to convert to an audio stream, but if you had battery powered headphones they could do all of the amplification (and plenty of really nice headphones already do additional application in the headphones).
The DAC must exist somewhere.
.4 cubic centimeters of real estate they get from this change to "give us more battery power." They will be using it to make the phone slightly thinner. Which is something a lot of people care about... I guess?
Whether it's in the phone, or the phone-powered headphones makes no difference. There is no power savings to be had here, except in the instance where you are plugging it into a self-powered peripheral... which is probably not 99% of peoples' non-charging use case (headphones, car AUX). Power is an irrelevant argument.
This is such a dick move. I've maintained 2 phones for a long time (A personal Android phone, and a work iPhone) but I won't buy an iPhone with this "feature" unless they can make some kind of dual-connection dongle so that I can charge it while I listen to it.
And let's be real, I think we're all quite sure they won't be using the
The good news for me, is I won't be too terribly impacted. They have Apple Music for Android now, so I will just switch to using my Android phone for music
Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port.
That's supposed to be an argument for this change? I don't care if it's a good move for Apple, it's a bad move for me. My iPhone spends ~10 hours every day with something plugged into the 3.5mm jack between my car's auxiliary cable and my nice headphones at work. A new iPhone is already over $600, now I'm expected to get bluetooth installed in my car and toss my $200 headphones, or constantly carry an adapter cable, or buy 3 adapter cables to keep at home, work, and in my car? That's insane.
More evidence that technology is slowing down and they have to change standards to get people to re-buy new sets of incompatible accessories which will get people to spend any money.
Floppy's ultimate demise came about because of USB technology, which was superior and did much more than just a storage technology.
Somebody please enlighten me, what's the technology making 3.5mm redundant at this point?
Except that now you have to charge two items instead of one.
Amplified headphones tend to be a bit more bulky than ear buds to tote around.
Ear buds are cheaper to lose.
My car stereo has an aux jack but no BT.
Average Intelligence is a Scary Thing
There isn't any alternative to the headphone jack. All headphones today use that analog port. Headphones don't have built in amps or digital to analog processors. I took a browse at all the best headphone s in headphone.com and earphonesolutions.com - they all use the port, none of them use USB or lightning ports. It would seem that headphone ports are not legacy and no replacement port has been devised.
Take the Shure SE-846 or Westone W6- I own both. Both come in headphone jack only variants. The cost to replace these headphones with something else would be $1000 each.
Apple might be telling users they will need to switch to external DACs and Amps instead.. I have used external DACs/Amps and they are bulky and normally larger than the size of the phone itself. They aren't compact. They use their own batteries etc and are not power efficient.
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Why would Apple make such a stupid anti-consumer change?
Beats me.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
You do know that MFi allows for 100 mA draw from the Lightning port, don't you? Most - probably more than 99% - of those Lightning headphones will NOT have batteries, they'll pull power from your phone to run THEIR circuitry to do the D/A and amplification - most of which STILL has to exist inside the iPhone because it still has speakers internally. That's what happens now with the few Lightning-equipped headphones on the market - the iDevice provides power to run everything.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
People go out of their way to make excuses for Apple design decisions. If Microsoft had done something similar I would be looking a at Bill Gates borg icon on the article, and people would be calling for antitrust lawsuits. Apple is more closed and controlling than Microsoft ever was, it's just that the goal of their control is selling hardware instead of software.
Intel announced plans for this some weeks ago in their new chipsets for mobiles.
Did no one notice this?
They really think we're stupid, don't they.
>>This is how it goes. If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports. The essence of Apple is that they make design decisions "no one asked for".
Umm, the VGA port is still here and there's nothing wrong with it. it's still used by millions of PC's right now! Unless your gaming or doing intense graphics work there is a high likelihood that your business and home pc is hooked up that way right now. As for serial ports yeah those are still used today as well (granted in many hidden ways but it's still a very reliable way to interface with lots of hardware that doesn't need network connectivity), obviously the author only thinks of gaming equipment and not commercial or real world applications for equipment.
Whether it's in the phone, or the phone-powered headphones makes no difference.
Unless it's in the BATTERY POWERED HEADPHONES as I previously mentioned.
except in the instance where you are plugging it into a self-powered peripheral... which is probably not 99% of peoples' non-charging use case
Many noise-canciling and higher end headphones are battery powered.
I'd make that 80%.
But really the difference is minimal - the main point is it's not GREATER battery use to provide a digital audio output over an analog one.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The iProduct. As Homer would say, "it's funny because it's true".
and their money, will be parted. Smart people who have had enough will tell Apple where to shove it and vote with their wallet.
I dunno why there is such a long thread about this, as Apple has a right to do what they want, consumers have a right to choose a different platform or put up with Apple's shit.
"we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports"
We are still using computers with VGA and serial ports. VGA for being sure that you can hold a presentation using whatever projector they have at the venue, and serial ports to update firmware and program embedded devices.
Rather than having the phone send out an amplified analog signal, if the phone sends out a simple digital stream it would use LESS - not more - power. With a dongle it would use the same amount as it does today to convert to an audio stream, but if you had battery powered headphones they could do all of the amplification (and plenty of really nice headphones already do additional application in the headphones).
Alternately what if the new audio jack provided power so you could have a set of external speakers that did use phone power to provide really good sound quality? That seems better to be than using external speakers today where I have to plug them in (though sadly most external speakers today are bluetooth).
1) It also means I can't charge it while I listen to music if I want.
2) I don't want battery powered headphones. That's another thing I have to charge
3) If I use bluetooth so I can charge my phones, the power runs down even quicker and I have another thing to charge
4) If I want to plug in my phone to external speakers, I want it charging so the battery doesn't run down or most likely I will connect via bluetooth while leaving it charged.
I can understand that the 3.5mm jack is impinging on deisgn, however it should be able to be iterated in a way to preserve the best parts of the 3.5mm jack.
Modern headphone jacks have 4 contacts: Gnd, Left, Right, and Mic. This is also the same* number of pins on a magsafe connector. Therefore, I propose we use magsafe or mag-safe-like connector.
While I recommend against using existing mag-safe due to voltage risks, we can iterate it it easily enough for a 1V model.
* technically Magsafe has 5, with pin 3 as charge control. This is not needed.
Also another format would be a magnetic bulls-eye format of concentric contacts, so the cord can spin like an existing 3.5mm jack.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Guys: it's really time to go wireless for audio. I have a cheap ($20) pair of bluetooth earbuds for working out and a pair of Beats Wireless Studio headphones for when I want something that sounds better. Both sound better than the cheap earbuds most people use... and I haven't used the 3.5mm jack on any of my devices for a long time.
Bluetooth is the answer... not adapters.
I view this the same way as when apple removed Ethernet ports from their laptops... it was a (not so gentle) nudge toward going completely wifi. Some people wailed and cried... everyone else enjoyed less wires.
There will always be a niche that says "Bluetooth isn't high enough quality for me!"... but that is 0.0001% of the population. 99.999% of the population is fine using whatever crap comes in the box with their phone. I suspect Apple will provide bluetooth earbuds when they remove the 3.5mm jack.
Try buying MFi chips without an approval from Apple. Go ahead. Won't work. You have to play by THEIR rules (which change every 2 months or so), prove you only work as THEY want you to work (not as your customers or you want to work - including what kinds of connectors you can mix-and-match on your device), and then pay for the MFi chip after running it through certification AT THE MANUFACTURER (not the designer - hope your factory is Apple certified!)
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
if there is no analog jack, it prevents 3rd party go-em-between recording devices from being manufactured. it's legal in most states to record your own phone calls. so this prevents general public from recording and storing their phone calls in a truly off-line manner. right now every time a customer service agent give you the "i don't know who told you that" line, you can play back for them the recording of the call. if all audio goes over an encrypted wire, this becomes a much more difficult task. if for no other reason that any software solution which does this is not guaranteed to not store this info on apple servers. right now a recorder can store it on any media you'd keep inside your home.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
The loss of the headphone jack doesn't just impact 'headphones'. For example I have a chronograph for getting velocities for my ammo reloading. They have a handy mobile app that records shot strings, calculates standard deviation, spread, etc, and allows you to export the data. Guess how they interface between the phone and the chrono? A 15ft cable that plugs into the headphone jack. Before you criticize, keep in mind that this interface has worked flawlessly for me over hundreds of rounds, is compatible with any apple or android smartphone that can still run the mobile app and the cord can be replaced for little cost if damaged or lost. No idea how many other things might use same method...
"It's not enforcement of DRM on audio playback. It's enforcement of the MFi Program for certifying hardware that uses the Lightning port. Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port." If apple sold hot dogs, those hot dogs would be designed to intentionally nullify the flavor of non-apple ketchup. Why? Don't bother asking, they'll just shrug their shoulders and say it's for your security or something.
It just Apple copying another Android feature. The G1, the first Android phone available in most parts of the world, had no 3.5mm jack and required a dongle to use headphones. Apple just copied the feature about 9 years later.
The comparison falls flat on so many levels.
First an foremost, the floppy died because it was no longer able to fulfill its role as a data storage medium. Data size simply outgrew its ability to hold it. The older ones here might still remember playing Monkey Island on the Amiga with a ridiculous amount of floppies, constantly swapping despite having two floppy drives.
There was simply a demand for something that could hold more data than the floppy was able to. CDs filled this role, as well as ZIP drives did. There was a demand for such larger media because the floppy was simply getting too small.
I fail to see this development with headphone jacks. Considering that our kids consider YouTube videos good enough to watch their music, I doubt that they are really craving the high quality audio digital audio could deliver.
This looks more like a solution desperately trying to find a problem so it could become relevant. Or, in other words, we'll get another demand from the supply side shoved down our throats.
Could someone explain capitalism to me again? I think I misunderstood a thing or two.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
but if you had battery powered headphones they could do all of the amplification.
But now you have two things that you have to keep charged instead of one. More importantly, the summary mentions they could have a larger battery if they got rid of the headphone jack. That is bizarre. If you want to increase the battery size, just do it. If you just made the iphone 6 the same depth as the camera on it, that would give you significantly more area to work with than removing the headphone jack. You would have also avoided "bendgate". What is apple's obsession with ultra thin devices? Give me a thicker phone and throw in a longer battery life and waterproofing. As it is the iphone is so thin and fragile that everyone ends up putting it in a case anyways.
it's not rocket science. No one is being tricked into buying an iPhone, and other manufacturers aren't being tricked into copying the iPhone. If people really want a 3.5 mm headphone jack then other manufacturers will keep it and people will buy those instead of an iPhone. If not, then I guess it doesn't really matter and we'll add this to the list of legacy technologies that Apple has taken the lead on EOLing, causing mass hysteria from the technoratti and complete indifference from everyone else.
There is a big difference between the floppy drive and the headphone jack. The floppy drive died out because a bunch of new, better in every way alternatives came out that made it no longer useful. The headphone jack is still quite useful.
If Apple wants to push technology forward and make a better headphone jack then why not do something that would actually improve audio quality like making the new connector support balanced headphone drive and get rid of the common ground? Combined with a quality pair of headphones that would really push audio fidelity forward.
Of course like everyone else here I expect this is probably just a money grab intended to sell a bunch of dongles and collect a ton of licensing fees on lighting connector headphones with zero actual improvement included.
we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports
I've just had a look on the computer I bought last year. Check and ..... check.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Admittedly, I'm a corner case, but I need the 1/8" jack to connect to my cochlear implant, if I want to do the equivalent of "use headphones." The sound processor has an input jack just for that purpose. So, unless Apple makes a Lightning-to-1/8" adapter, I won't be able to "plug in" and listen quietly to my music. Why do you hate handicapped people, Apple...?
He adds that the existing analog headphone jack "is more costly in terms of depth than thickness," and by getting rid of it, Apple could use the extra real estate to stuff in more battery juice.
Maybe Apple could use the "extra" space to add to battery life, if special digital copy protection circuits don't end up taking up as much or more space, but does anyone really believe that Apple has any interest in doing this? Gruber is clearly just making unfounded excuses for Apple. I've learned long ago to be very weary of anyone who says stuff like this.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
You might one to rebuy a periphery tool or two, though...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Why do headphones need to use the Lightning port? I don't understand how this is a positive point. Plus, Lightning ports only exist on Apple devices. So really, just a way to skim money from the fanbase.
How is this even good for the consumer? This isn't a positive point at all. Right now in the US only certain people are allowed to give internet to certain households. Look at the quality of service and cost involved there. He's pretty much blatantly saying he's trying to find a way to jack up prices for basic items.
Do we really want paper-thin phones now? Their current thickness is just fine, if not teetering on too thin.
The amount of space saved by removing the headphone jack is negligible... how much juice are they going to fit in there?
While I'm all for change and advancement, this seems like a huge step back that is simply being driven to stream more money into Apple's wallet. Considering their current practice is: "Fewest as possible feature at the highest possible cost" I simply can't see this being a good thing. Can the audio from headphones be any higher quality? It just seems like a giant scam being set up by Apple... and as much as I want them to shoot themselves in the foot, I know the Apple fanbase is dumb enough to drool all over it and toss their money away. Apple could put out a literal log of shit sculpted into some shape with their logo on it and sell it as an air freshener, and those people would buy it.
The analogy with floppy drives is flawed.
When floppies were being dropped, the replacement was already there - USB mass storage devices - and it was cross platform.
Headphone jacks are cross platform.
A lightening headphone is not cross platform.
A USB-C headphone would be cross platform if iPhones and computers all came with USB-C connectors but today they do not.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
I love how your subtle, yet powerful, argument is so based on facts.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I've owned just about everything Apple has made. That ends now. Guess I need to learn Android. :( I hate complex things.
They can just come up with a phone shaped like a butt-plug that you just stick up your ass. Call it the "aPhone". Use a bluetooth headset and an Apple watch in lieu of a screen, and you will be all set.
I am sorry but Apple Inc. is not innovative, it is clever in its use of technology, and the only contribution I can see that apple gave to the world at large was done under Steve Jobs. Unfortunately, he is now moved on to other realms of existence, and since then apple has not done much if any improvement on its own products. Apple did not contribute to the development of USB (Intel), HDMI, DVI, Firewire, etc. There are a few things that are apple only, but those have not been adopted by anyone else, nor can they. Even if they, other computer companies, wanted to adopt any apple product they probably could not by law do so, or pay the outrageous fees. Also If Apple was innovative, why have they adopted industrial standards that other Computer manufacturers been using long than Apple?
Keep in mind that Apple Inc. almost expired, and would have if Microsoft didn't need Apple to have a chunk of the market to avoid the anti-monopoly issue they faced. Yes Microsoft saved Apple.
Right now I am of the opinion, and it is subject to change, that Apple good at taking money and not contributing anything, while making themselves look good doing it. I mean Microsoft is funding initiatives to help schools to educate. Has apple?
Let it be know also that the other post is on the other extreme and also way off, the anti-apple post about the headphone jack.
In the long run, we will see. Apple has been know to do a 180 just like everyone else, but do not say that they are innovative.
a phone which is incapable of being used in speakerphone mode. Why? Because eliminating it saves weight, costs less, and reduces the size by a tiny amount. Or, because eliminating it boosts sales of 'accessories' and fattens the bottom line. Want speakerphone mode? Buy a dongle.
Even a few months ago I would have said the above only jokingly, but at this point I won't be at all surprised if it actually comes to pass.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
I wonder how much extra juice will be needed to run Bluetooth all the time.
Website Just Down For Me? Find out
Yeah, they'll have a dongle to convert... but that dongle is still an additional expense that isn't likely going to be included with the iphone.
The 3.5mm jack is among one of the most ubiquitous audio connector form factors in the history of recorded audio. Breaking from it offers absolutely no perceptible benefit that is not accompanied by significantly greater expense and inconvenience for the consumer
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Floppy drives were already obsolete years before they started disappearing from newly offered for sale computers. They were unreliable, temperamental, had tiny data storage capacity, were large (compared to their replacement,) basically, their only selling point was BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY.
Headphones that connect to the 1/8", or 3.5mm stereo (or stereo plus mic) mini jack are first, still extremely widely used by practically everyone, allow for easy, basically hassle-free connection of external speakers, can even be used to connect certain peripheral devices like credit card readers, are besides VERY goddamned reliable, are NOT bulky, are FAR LESS temperamental than the alternative (like piece of shit Bluetooth drecknology that is easily interfered with, disconnects at random, AND requires you to remember to plug-in a SECOND battery powered piece of shit to recharge it, which if you don't, renders it completely fucking USELESS, and even if you do remember to charge, will cause your other device, i.e., your iPhone to lose its charge faster, AND the headphones may not hold a charge as long as the iPhone which means having to drag TWO CHARGERS everywhere, instead of just one, and STILL HAVING TO STOP USING THEM WHILE THEYRE CHARGING...
Fuck whatever lying asshole moron wrote this bullshit claiming headphone ports to be the "new floppy drives," he or she or they are FULL OF SHIT!
By the way, two other things. One, we know for a fact of Apple really wants to get rid of the port because boo hoo, they can't make their stupid iPhone even more uncomfortably, uselessly THIN, the requisite thickness of the headphone jack ISN'T what's stopping them, any more than the fucking CAMERA being too thick stopped them from including it in the iPhone 6, 6+, 6S, 6S+, the iPad (several models and styles) even when it meant the stupid fucking things wouldn't fucking lay FLAT on a surface without a fucking case to account for the difference in thickness.
The other other thing, is I actually tried Apple's overpriced, low-battery-life-having, uncomfortable to wear, ugly, stupid, shitty, "free" (with iPad Pro purchase,) "Beats Solo 2 Bluetooth headphones". They (despite now being an "Apple" product since Apple wasted gazillions of dollars pointlessly buying a black friend ER... headphone company to try to make more money off black people, or whatever the rationale was for why Apple had to squander all that cash they could have put into making better or less expensive products... ) they were NOT able to charge using a LIGHTNING CABLE! They required a separate USB Micro cable... but that was just the BEGINNING of my disappointment with these pieces of shit that retailed for several hundred dollars if you were stupid enough to shell out actual cash for these fucking things.
Let me tell you. The batteries lasted less than 6 hours, meaning recharging them pretty much daily; they didn't sound as good as my Sony $25 earbuds, (of which by the way, I've acquired several pairs,) or even as good as Apple's EarPods! And they were almost impossible to wear more than about an hour at a stretch, AND they were bulky meaning I couldn't just comfortably just stuff them down into my jeans pocket when they weren't in use, which was a lot of the time, given the discomfort at wearing and short battery life. I guess they might be alright if you only used them AT HOME, ALMOST COMPLETELY DEFEATING THE FUCKING PURPOSE OF HAVING AN I-FUCKING-PHONE IN THE FIRST GODDAMNED PLACE!
So the person who wrote this bullshit article is wrong, stupid, and probably is being paid to write it. Don't buy into their bullshit.
Hey Apple: you can have my wired headphones when you pry them out of my cold, dead EARS!
It's not "debatable". Dropping the analog jack is just stupid. As far as "anyone" can make accessories, yes, that's the point, anyone can.
Manufacturers begin taking floppy disk controllers and ports off motherboards in favor of stupid features people don't use: customers get angry because floppy was still in widespread use for loading drivers while installing OS, particularly for disk and raid controllers.
Manufacturers begin taking headphone jacks off devices in favor of stupid features people don't use: customers get angry because everyone fucking uses headphones with the RCA mini connector.
Apple is suffering from Valve Software Syndrome. They have so much money from prior success that they can afford to ignore their customers and make decisions that the majority of their customers disagree with, similar to how Valve has given up developing games in favor of microtransaction platforms and making money from Steam.
According to Gruber: If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports.
In my time I've heard some supposedly intelligent people say some screwy shit but that deserves a special award (special as in "my mommie says I'm special").
> The 3.5mm headphone jack has been around for decades. We can either live with it forever, or...
Great. yes please.
Yeah fuck that. Apple just made my decision, for me, of which phone to get next.
How can anyone defend the deplorable practice of doing away with a common industry standard, and instead coming up with some new, proprietary solution to a problem that's already solved. I don't want headphones that run on batteries...and I REALLY don't want to buy lighting-adapter headphones that will ONLY work on Apple products, or have to worry about losing some bulky god damn adapter. Trying to expand the walled garden so that in encompasses something as simple as headphones if beyond fucking offensive.
The entire premise of this article, comparing an audio jack to a floppy drive, is so utterly stupid, it defies logic. You see, floppy drives were SUPPLANTED by superior technology, the CD, as were CDs by DVDs, and DVDs by USB drives, and so on. There were tangible benefits to doing without them. A lighting adapter adds nothing of value - to anyone - as far as audio is concerned. People are not going to replace the analog ports on their amps with lighting adapters, you fucking idiot. The comparison makes zero sense, and only stands to benefit Apple. How can people be such transparent shills. Jesus fucking Christ.
Opinions are like dick cheese - John Gruber should keep them to himself!!!
" but if you had battery powered headphones"
I can't wait for that lithium battery to explode against my fucking head.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Some people don't care about Apple force-retiring certain things that personally don't affect them - 3.5" floppies, etc, and trot out the tired "oh well, that's progress for you." But there's a right and wrong way to do things like this. The alternatives to the audio jack stink.
What if iOS 11 deprecated phone calls? "Phone calls are a legacy feature with too much reliance on the cell phone companies. With our new and improved FaceTime and iMessage apps, you can more quickly communicate. Yes, these apps only works with other iOS devices, why do you ask?" Would these people care then? Or if Apple suddenly did away with the hardware mute toggle, since you can do the same thing (but much less conveniently) via software?
I have a dumb phone. Not because I don't like smartphones, only because I'm too poor to afford one. But my dumb phone doesn't have an ear phone jack either. And I had this samsung phone about 5 years ago, it didn't have a headphone jack either, had a dongle i'd have to plug into it's usb port.
So while you peeps with your fancy smartphone and iPhones are complaining, this isn't new at all.
But it still sucks imo.
Be seeing you...
With a dongle it would use the same amount as it does today to convert to an audio stream
Until you add in a USB controller on each end (yes, Lightning is USB), the Lightning "auth" chip in the port, the Lightning "auth" chip in the plug, and resistive losses in the cable that will cause an external DAC and amplifier to draw more current from the phone just to get the same amount of power (lower voltage and higher amperage) at the other end.
You can see this today, if you don't believe me. There are external iPhone DACs on the market, the iPhone shuts down its DAC and amp when you plug one in. You get about 10% less iTunes listening time when using one.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
"This is how it goes. If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports. " Since when apple invented the hdmi and port ? Heck even displayport was a standard outside apple (they only later licensed free a mini version of it). What is the load of bullshit of rewriting history.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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visit randi.org
It is: if people care ENOUGH, they'll buy something else.
That is how it works.
I don't like Blizzard's DRM practices, and that's enough a reason not to buy D3, but not enough, to skip SC2, as an example.
Why on earth would we still be using VGA "if not Apple"?
What do DVI-D (Intel/AMD and co decided to let analog DVI go), HDMI or display port have to do with Apple?
Thunderbolt is pretty much the only thin you could associate with them, if not, cough, Intel who has actually developed it.
If it wasn't for Apple's manipulative business practices, we'd still be using Firewire on PCs.
You can encode surround sound into two channel audio, but the result is not nearly as good as true separation of channels - which is why real him theater equipment uses digital audio inputs if it can instead of decoding surround from two-channel audio.
Many Slashdot users would apparently deny the the headphones you speak of exist, or have any use.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Once Apple removes the analog connector, they also get to remove the Digital to Analog Converter (DAC), Op-Amp and other circuity that goes along with powering and controlling the analog audio output. This is interesting because all of these components now get moved to the dongle. This would be a great "Analog" system "Export" for audio developers and audiophile types who would then be able to put whatever DAC and opamp packages they want in their third party dongle. Unfortunately I do not see it panning out that way. I am sure Apple will have a stranglehold on interoperability with third party vendors for some time. DRM will also most likely control who gets to play in the Dongle arena.
"A 'person' is smart. 'People' are dumb, panicky animals and you know that."
iPhone sales are down 10% from last year. Apple is headed for single digit market share.
If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports.
I wish I had a fucking VGA port on every laptop I bought recently. The so called new standards are a complete mess, without consensus and often incompatible setups. Seriously, if you have to project something often, then VGA is still the best solution so far. Partly because every projector has a vga input that always works, and partly because to other things are complete garbage. Simple standards that work as expected all the time should never be phased out.
Oh, and give me my ethernet port back too! I'm tired of all those shitty wifi connection with their incorrect authentication schemes and awful bandwidth. So far, I never used a laptop while running, so I don't mind plugging it to the network. Hey, I plug it for power anyway, so...
Video of some good progressive thrash music
Who uses headphones with cables in this day and age?
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Makes me glad I went Android years ago.
Timmy Cook, CEO Super Queer of Apple Inc. has a plan.
1) Remove 1/8th head phone jacks.
2) Marry Paul Ryan.
3) Pass Bill signed by Obama to force all children 1-year older to be Queerified by Timmy's penis with him performing the insertion operations. Jonny Ive will be present to "Lick Up" the left-over "stuff" on the floor.
After all, Timmy wants an Queer World and will pay his $300 billion US dollars in China to get his way!
Ha ha
Maybe Congress will pass a bill making 2/22/22 Timmy's Queer Day In America!
Hahaahahahhahahhahahahaha
I was worried how my old floppy-based ICBM system could be updated, now I know I need only add headphone jacks
Nullius in verba
Then you can still sell a bazillion adapters.
Losing the standard jack effectively disables the use of any decent headphone currently made.
I'd like to point out that from an audiophile standpoint, the LAST thing in the world you would want is your DAC/Amp integrated into your headphones. I have multiple DACs and amps around the house just because they all offer a different sound, not necessarily better but different. Moving to a digital cable and forcing the dac to become integrated into the headphones is batshit fucking stupid. And from the standpoint of transferring analog audio over the lightning cable, it will be no different than a 3.5mm cable except now you need a dongle and can no longer charge and listen at the same time.
Gruber is a fucking moron apple shill and it shows. His only argument is "Apple is doing it so shut up and like it". He offers no credible points that actually show how lightening is better than 3.5mm. Size is a bullshit argument too as far as I'm concerned and I seriously doubt we'll be seeing iphones with a depth of less than 3.5mm any time soon. And at any rate, I'd rather keep my "fat" phone if it means I can plug in ANY GODDAMN PIECE OF AUDIO EQUIPMENT EVER MADE. It annoys me to no end when someone gets sanctimonious about apple's bullshit after drinking the kool-aid and thinking their shit is now gold. TO. NO. END.
...with Apple and interfaces. Until recently, Macs always used proprietary video jacks (google Apple ADC), and before they got rid of the mic jack on Macs they used a proprietary jack/plug called Appletalk, yes the same name as their old network protocol, because why the hell not?
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Honestly I don't see what the big fuss is about. I've been using wireless headphones since 2012 and I would never willingly go back to corded headphones because they are unwieldy. The cords would always pull the buds out of my ears and get tangled. Wireless headphones give me the freedom to move around unencumbered which is useful when I'm riding my motorcycle, bicycling, running, or walking. Yes Bluetooth doesn't have the same fidelity as traditional wired headphones, but when I'm listening to music with headphones I've never expected high fidelity. I have a home theater with AirPlay at home for when I want want higher fidelity. Also when I need headphones that usually means I'm not at home so that means I'm listening to low bitrate music to save bandwidth, so fidelity is largely a moot point. I do use the 3.5mm jack in my car, but for this use case I can simply replace this with a $5 Bluetooth receiver; I've been meaning to get a Bluetooth receiver anyways so that I can talk hands free.
"Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port."
...That is not even wrong.
That's... bad?
"Apple could use the extra real estate to stuff in more battery juice."
About three minutes' worth, yeah.
"Gruber adds that "enabling, open, and democratizing" have never been high on Apple's list of priorities for external ports."
That is exactly the complaint, yes.
"If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports."
God, people who use Apple are horrible.
I have to confess that I'm an Apple customer -- I own an iPhone, iPad, and a MacBook air -- as well as some Windows-running hardware.
I LIKE Apple for the devices on which I am a consumer. I like that things work. When I have to customize things, I use Linux/Raspberry Pi/Arduino, etc.
I unhappily lived with the "lightning port" because it's a small inconvenience and is superior in a minor way (you can't plug it in upside down).
This move, however is PARASITIC. I wish it would be regulated away or something -- it reminds me of the ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS glut of phone chargers which were available in the late 1990s and the early 2000s before USB became standard. They add absolutely no value to the user and force the user to buy new accessories or adapters.
Will I stop using my existing Apple devices? Probably not. Will I buy the new iPhone -- probably not. I'll just upgrade to the latest one which does not package idiocy and stop there.
At some point, any audio has to be analog sound for people to hear it. The audio industry, at the insistence of the music industry, has been trying to limit the distance and the quality of that audio so that it cannot be copied in the audio domain, while DRM controls the digital encoded domain. Same as HDMI eliminating the "analog hole" of composite or component video in the attempt to prevent copying.
Wildly overpriced mediocre hardware coupled with walled garden ecosystem joined to a bunch of engineers that cannot even do web pages very well
Very melodramatic. People buy what they want and what they like. This is a classic example of "oh, this doesn't work for me so it must be crap" syndrome.
Sure no problem. I will not be buying any product without.
Lose the socket, loose the sales!
I don't think iPhones have radios to pick up broadcasts but if Android phone makers follow suit, the built-in radios will necessarily be dropped, too, won't they?
If I decide to move away from my iPhone, nothing prevents me from moving to a cellphone with Android, Blackberry or Windows.
Except for your investment in the App Store.
A little mag-safe connector might be nice. The existing headphone spear connector doesn't have anything going for it except it's cheap and it's already everywhere. With an open standard, current world manufacturing will be happy to sell us new headphones when our old ones wear out. (Or inexpensive adapters for those headphones that refuse to wear out.)
I suspect this is all part of that.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
If the rumors are true, the iPhone 7 will have no audio jack, and a Lightning port.
The MacBook already uses USB-C for power. How far into the future does Apple expect to get before the iPhone does as well? A transition to Lightning headphones is going to cost users a whole bunch of money, and a lot of people who aren't very technical are going to spend that money on Lightning headphones instead of an audio adapter.
The day Apple migrates to USB-C, making those lightning headphones useless (or requiring a USB-C to Lightning adapter), even the most loyal users are going to throw a fit.
It's on the wrong end of the phone for pocket-based use.
i think maybe one of the reasons they are disabling that ability of headphone jacks.
is cuz you can put a dummy jack in there. and it would disable the speech capability as well. i meant microphone,
for the nsa paraNOID. pizza eaters and atari teen riot listeners.
peace
The first Android phone didn't have a headphone jack.
1. Apple will do it anyway
2. You'll get an adaptor and move on, just like you did last last time
3. your mom isn't freaking out, neither should you
4. you can always stay with the last generation iPhone, which will be available for a few years
5. Admit it android people, you just luv to complain about Apple.
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLEzEL35Iyc&t=5m0s
The 3.5mm headphone jack has been around for decades. We can either live with it forever, or try doing something better instead.
Just look at the industry's pathetic attempts to do "something better":
* USB-A -- big and bulky; and you can't insert it 180 deg. so 50% of all attempted insertions are upside-down
* USB-B -- still too big and bulky for mobile devices
* USB-mini-A -- a completely pointless fuckup
* USB-mini-B -- a completely pointless fuckup
* USB-micro-A -- a completely pointless fuckup
* USB-micro-B -- finally caught on, but STILL YET AGAIN can't insert it 180 deg.
* USB-C -- 7th time's a charm, maybe? who knows...
* DVI -- here's a digital video connector for ya
* HDMI -- oops, DVI didn't have enough bandwidth, and doesn't carry sound, so here's another standard for ya
* DisplayPort -- oops, HDMI didn't have enough bandwidth, so here's another standard for ya
When it comes to connectors, the industry is just one fuckup after another after another.
There is exactly zero probability that the industry is competent enough to replace the headphone jack with something better.
Gruber might make some good arguments, except for overlooking the essential question Yes, Apple dropped floppy, VGA, and serial. However, in each case there was a significant benefit. CD was better than floppy. DVI was better than VGA. USB was better than serial.
But are Lightning headphones really better than analog headphones? A D-to-A conversion still has to take place. Are we to expect dongles for that? Are headphone mfgs. going to build in better D/A converters than what's currently in the phone? Does anyone really benefit from this?
I was actually thinking of getting another iPhone after a year on Android. No headphone jack combined with not being able to watch movies I've paid for on iTunes (thanks to some digital copy protection Error) it's time to say bye to apple for good.
If the 3.5mm jack is "too big" then replace it with the smaller standard 2.5mm jack. We can easily get adapters for 2.5mm to 3.5mm. Whining about jack size inside the phone doesn't hold water here. The decision to drop the jack is a money grab plus an ecosystem lock-in attempt, plain and simple. Fuck Apple for pulling this garbage.
Correct me if im wrong, but doesn't the compression algorithm for wireless (Bluetooth) sound diminish the quality of the music? It might be good for "average Joe" but music buff's wont like the removal of the headphone jack?
Apple stuns the world by introducing the 1.75mm headphone jack. What innovative geniuses!
Headphone jacks ARE NOT the new floppy! Don't insult our intelligence.
External storage media followed Moore's law in capacity - doubling in size regularly - making trading up to new technologies essential.
Whereas, there is no perceivable performance difference between a headphone that plugs into a 3.5mm jack versus a lightening connector. It solves no (user) problem.
Please stop defending Apple. Their main goal is to make money. They don't pay taxes. They want to sell you cloud storage ($ Cha-Ching $), more data ($ Cha-Ching $), more adapter dongles ($ Cha-Ching $), more key-locked bluetooth chips ($ Cha-Ching $)...
Unbelievably, when they abandoned the 32-pin connector, they didn't go to micro USB. Remember, the whole industry was mandated to micro-USB in order to save the planet. Did Apple care? NO! They chose their own proprietary connector to cause users to have to buy more stuff and throw more stuff away. How did anyone but Apple benefit from that? And they left millions of users with antiquated 32-pin docks and even cars with 32-pin connectors built in.
Now that USB type-C is coming on line, will Apple abandon the proprietary lightening connector? Hell no!
Apple has $216 billion in the bank, had revenue of $234 billion last year, has more than $100 billion stored in foreign banks, and paid no US taxes last year.
Don't be sheep, people. Wake up. You are being brainwashed by these money grubbers. They tell you to like it, so you like it.
Gross.
Many phones now use the analog headphone/headset jack as connectors to internal JTAG or I2C connections for debug purposes. All those jailbreaks and firmware hacks that make your phone more usable, will be harder to make with less user accessible connections (at least without cracking the case open, and connecting to open pads). Much as how the analog jack is ubiquitous, reuse of the jack for debug ports is ubiquitous. Cutting that out, along with increasing hostility towards user OS/firmware customization, is yet another example of the psycopathic attitudes large corporations hold towards customers.
Wow, on Slashdot even gibberish gets upvoted if it seems to be anti-Apple.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
You do know that MFi allows for 100 mA draw from the Lightning port, don't you? Most - probably more than 99% - of those Lightning headphones will NOT have batteries, they'll pull power from your phone to run THEIR circuitry to do the D/A and amplification - most of which STILL has to exist inside the iPhone because it still has speakers internally. That's what happens now with the few Lightning-equipped headphones on the market - the iDevice provides power to run everything.
So the headphones if using the maximum allowed power draw will drain the 1715mAh battery of an iPhone 6s in only 17 hours. While being able to pierce not just your eardrums, but also those of the people around you - or produce enough heat to melt them.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Am I really *really* the only one here to remember the days when cellphones did not generally have 3.5mm headphone jacks, because they simply did not play music? Back then *every* single damn phone had its' own proprietary connector to provide charging and a headset connection, and every single damn phone you bought you had to buy a new heaset for. Then Bluetooth happened and at the same time the 3.5mm jack started to become kinda standard (even then it wasn't fully, because the exact wiring wasn't standardised).
literally 'billions' of corporate PCs still use VGA connections.
Stop making thinner phones! They're already too small to get a firm grip on due to the lack of surface area contacting my skin, especially with rounded sides. They also feel really fragile, and judging by the number of cracked screens I see, are actually as fragile as they seem. Is Apple's solution to their lackluster upgrades to the iPhone and market saturation making a phone so thin and fragile that it's easy to drop and break, necessitating an over-priced screen replacement?
I think this article loses sight of a very important distinction about what actually happened when Apple removed the floppy drive. First, there were a few generations of machines that had both floppy and CD-rom drives together. During that time, computers were getting exponentially more powerful every year, and files were starting not to fit on the floppy drive, outside of Word documents. The CD was a superior technology, and it was evident to most people. Also, that whole internet thing was starting to happen, and files could be moved that way. (the i in iMac is for internet). Apple noticed that the floppy drive was not being used by many people at all.
So in response, Apple made the then bold decision to remove the floppy disc. They did this in a new revolutionary model of the mac dubbed the iMac. It was cute, bondi blue machine. It was $1299, and replaced the mac 5500 which was about $2000. See, by not having the floppy disc and a few other things, the cost was REDUCED and part of the savings was passed on the consumer.
For those determined and still in love with the floppy disc, there were able to purchase an external floppy drive that connected through that then new fangled USB port. The consumer was able to take some of their cost savings and make a choice. A good thing, choice.
Now contrast this with the removal of the headphone port. Those who are extreme Apple apologists or who do not think it through blithely state that this is an example of Apple just knowing better than us, like before. But, unlike before, there is NO cost savings for us. In fact, the cost of peripherals etc actually goes up. In addition, the new port and the head port are not available at the same time, like floppies and cds were before. There is no transition period, or the ability to demonstrate how the new media is superior. There is no way the consumer, comparing the two, can say, "you know, I never use that silly headphone port. I am so done with it."
Being a silly consumer, I really have seen no clear advantages that the system offers. I find the current level of head phones pretty good. I listen to music outside, which is pretty noisy. So, any crisp new nuance possibly given by the new interface seems like it would be meaningless in the real world. The old headphone jack is physically robust. I heard mention on these forums the new port is less sturdy. All I know is that my iPhone is pretty @!#$$ expensive, and I would hate to have it bricked due to a flimsy port failing.
So, this is a deep departure from the Apple of old, into what I am increasingly seeing as the Apple of new. The old Apple would anticipate what the customer wants based upon what the customer is doing. The new apple seems fascinated with control. Oh, and making computers and devices that are ever slimmer because upper management has a Fetish, not because it makes it better.
"Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
What of having that jack have multiple stripes and convert it into something backward compatible with an audio jack? You could put enough wires in there to be a USB port, accept data, and charging yet still support the good old headphones. I know credit card swipe devices which use the input, lets just put a ground, 2 gpio, 2 varying power, and an analog and see if we can get more devices to come out. THAT would be more along the lines of Apple ingenuity, take something which exists, and revolutionize it.
No, your battery will drain much faster than that. Because the phone is serving the music as well, so the CPU is running, you may have a 4G connection streaming, the screen will be on as you increase/decrease the volume or select the next track, memory is accessed, etc.
I realize you're just trying to dodge the point: an outboard, SECONDARY DAC and amp (yes, secondary because you HAVE to have one inside the phone for its own speaker) will always increase the power draw off the battery as compared to just using the primary DAC and amp already in the phone. And of course, to be MFi compatible, you have to have a USB (which is what the Lightning port speaks, but with the MFi wrapper around it) interface and an MFi chip (bought, of course, from Apple). You're powering two circuits (one of which is much more complex), rather than just one. But the fact is that an outboard system will always draw more, since it's redundant to already-existing systems internally.
The easiest way to do this is with the Apple Lighting Audio Module - and it pulls a constant 25 mA in addition to whatever is needed for any additional amp you want to use (their built-in amp is so-so, relatively low power and with a high output impedance). If you roll-your-own via Cypress PSoC or XMOS, you're probably around 25-35 mA continuous. Not including amplifier. Nor including the microphone bias circuit and preamplifier and ADC (you DO want to use that mic on your headphone, right? The one built into the little MFi 3 button controller?) And yes, I've done these kinds of adapters for headphone companies down here in SoCal...
This move will NOT cut power consumption - it will, in fact, increase it significantly over the current status quo (probably a solid 50 mA extra current draw). Every single time. But hey, it's more revenue and profit for Apple so it's all good, right?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
... that I am now using a PC with two VGA screens. And a COM port. I even have a USB floppy drive hiding somewhere.
Then, I perfectly understand the old jack being phased out. Analog tech has gradually been replaced by digital ones, for the better or the worse.
The only thing that bugs me in the end is : why don't they include a standard (C-type) USB port on they phones.
By pushing for IEEE 1398 (FireWire) instead of USB. This created a VHS vs Beta or HD-DVD vs BlueRay type confusion for a long time.
Well, it's just one more reason why Apple's iPhone/iPad products are simply inferior to most of their competitors. It was enough for me already that they do not have any replaceable battery and no SD card slot.
But it seems as if they can count on all those clueless fanbois to keep their sales up...
"If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports"
*using a VGA port for second monitor on laptop right now. *uses serial ports for Cisco console cables, and has to have a USB-serial adapter since laptops stopped having serial ports
Apple doesn't create new standards for anybody but Apple, it destroys standards. I hope the rest of the industry continues ignoring Apple's bullshit and give consumers what they want. Jobs had that bullshit idea that consumers have to be told what they want. Beg to differ.
AA batteries, AAA batteries are just fine as a backup option. Amateur radio equipment leaves this open. As well as rechargeable. Hell, i have rechargeable AA energizers. Stop changing shit for the sake of it. If you want a glass iPhone 8 the thickness of a cracker, ok cool. I don't though.... i have both a Bluetooth sound system and an 8 track player. Knock it off
There was recently a video featuring Edward Snowden showing how to remove the built-in camera and microphone from a cell phone, and to only use the 3.5mm audio jack when you wanted to actually make a call, in order to prevent eavesdropping... Interesting that Apple chose to remove this port so soon after such a technique was disclosed. It's almost like how the top android manufacturers are making batteries non-removable, so you can't just remove your battery when you want to turn your personal tracking device off either. Anyone else feel the walls closing in?
No, your battery will drain much faster than that. Because the phone is serving the music as well,
DUH. Yeah, but the headphone, even when drawing the maximum allowed power (which it will of course never do, any idiot will realize that), it would change the battery depletion by as much as you try to imply.
In case you didn't notice, I'm calling your claim dumb bullshit.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Inductively charge, bluetooth in and out. Have a sealed system, immersible to 500M and totally irreplaceable anything inside. Headphones to be surgically implanted in the customer.
Total bullshit. I am so sick and fucking tired of people going on about supposed Apple innovation driving the industry. Its bullshit and everyone knows it. Oh except the fucking moron plebs who watch TV ads and in their social paranoia figure that if the buy Apple they will "belong" and be accepted.
I watched that movie about Jobs and I wanted to throw shit at the screen half the time he opened his mouth. "People don't know what they want until I give it to them." What a load of fucking crap. Your a money spinning propaganda genius. If Goebbels had been born in the US in the 60's he would have grown up to be Jobs.
So ya, you want to turf the headphone jack because you don't own and control it. Owning and controlling a locked in system is the secret to Apple making a shit ton of profits. It has fuck all to do with anything else, if you think it is to drive innovation your an idiot who is lying to themselves and others.
I have battery-powered noise-cancelling headphones (Bose QC25). The batteries last very long. I don't think I would notice if they'd draw from the phone (which would be cool, kind-of). The phone consumes much more battery.
But I agree in that I don't necessarily need a thinner phone. I like my 4S's form-factor and will buy the SE. The 6 and 6S always seemed too slippery for me when I tried them in shops.
For extra battery, you can now buy the "hump" charger-case...
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
" If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports. "
And yet most computers have at least one DVI port that can output VGA through a completely passive, DRM free, and cheap adapter.
If their design for the new lighting connector-only headphones could do the same thing, then i would be much more open to it. Instead, we would need expensive and large active converters with horrible DRM in them.
I was surprised the last phone I bought had a 3.5MM jack on it for sound. I figured they did away with that years ago. I never use it for that.
Now what will that company that uses the phone jack for credit card payments do? What WILL they do? (Joke is probably to old for slashdot crowd)
a series of half truths and lies that only the most ardent idiot apple fanboys would for a second buy.
The real reason - we want to soak you for the cost of more expensive and more complex and more prone to breaking and wearing out types of headsets, and we want to be the ones to sell them and the replacements for them.
Pigs.
There isn't a reason to buy one anyway, unless you want to spend more money for no reason.
Gotta ask why!
I love how your subtle, yet powerful, argument is so based on facts.
His point is better than yours, so yeah.