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That will set you back to the tune of about $223,500 (enter some fake info for the details). Or it looks like you can lease 30 tuners for about $5,000/month.

Think I'll be sticking with my Moxi.

Anybody want to chip in on some, and store on the cloud someplace?

That will set you back to the tune of about $223,500 (enter some fake info for the details). Or it looks like you can lease 30 tuners for about $5,000/month.

Think I'll be sticking with my Moxi.

That said, I'd like to have a bluetooth remote for my (future) HTPC... Can you get anything like it, I searched a bit but didn't find anything. Most seems to be infra-red and using a cellphone isn't ideal.

Check out the snapstream firefly . It's RF (not bluetooth), but if avoiding line of sight is your objective, then it will fit the bill. Works quite well with MythTV, and I've messed about with it on Windows (but not MCE) as well. My one complaint (and a fundamental one that I should have considered first) is that I can't control my tv with it. Next time, I'll get a single, converged remote.

I've been using Snapstream BeyondTV for 4 years. I started first with a Hauppauge SD tuner card. I now have a Happaugue HD-PVR, a Motorola HD FiOS box and change channels with a USB-UIRT. The Motorola HD box connects the HD-PVR with component video and optical SPDIF cables. The HD-PVR connects to my Win7-x64 system via USB.

BeyondTV downloads the TV guide, manages the recording schedule and controls the HD-PVR and Motorola HD box with the USB-UIRT. The recording format is an H.264 transport stream (the file type is .tp) which uses about 3.6 GB per hour on the HD-High quality setting. These files are readily burned to a Blu-ray disk without re-encoding. The system is completely seamless.

My next step is to configure a DLNA enabled LG Blu-ray player in my living room to which I can stream the recorded files.

There is currently no DVR that requires no monthly fees that has at least some rudimentary capability to acquire the listings.

Moxi
Windows Media Center
Beyond TV
SageTV
MythTV

None of these require any subscription for guide data or functionality, and the top two even have CableCard support so you can enjoy your HD content fix. TiVo Series2 units with DVD burners often come with a free "limited" subscription to TiVo's guide data, lacking the recommendations and ability to look more than three days in to the future IIRC.

Here you go, a remote for your computer. I have one of these & it works just fine. Does everything you just asked for basically, even has a big red button on the top of it.

It even works on Linux as an X10 device.

http://www.snapstream.com/Products/Firefly/

Problem solved :D

I had a similar problem that my hardware didn't work with MythTV/Linux. So I went with BeyondTV for Windows http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/, had for awhile now and works great for me. If your still looking for something to do TV on your computer should give it a try, however it costs about 80$ which is a turn off for some.

I bought a Hauppauge card, Snapstream's beyond TV, and a Firefly RF remote. I see they are running this for about $180 on Snapstream's site. I've been using a cheaper board for several months now and think it's great.

No subscription charges, files are stored so anyone can view them or burn to DVD. It also includes compression and advertisement skipping, an hour of TV is about around 500 to 900MB. They also offer a $30 add-on so you can view from another computer on the network. I share the hard drive instead, but then the advertisement skipping feature can't be used, just standard fast forward.

Snapstream isn't the most intuitive program out there, but you don't have to pay the monthly subscription charge for access to free information once the first 12 month subscription runs out.

I've had an ATI bt878 TV card for about 10 years, and it has always worked with linux. In fact, for much of that time, I have used that card with linux as my primary source of television. It requires xawtv to change channels, but for general capturing the v4l driver works with any program.

As for remote controls, I don't use one, but I thought about buying a Snapstream Firefly mini. It says it is a hid device which acts as a keyboard, so it should be fully compatible with linux...

The Hauppauge HD PVR is coming soon.

I use beyondtv and am very happy with it. Yes, it is windows and costs money for the software, but it works very well for my needs.

If you don't want to go the *nix route (MythTV) then there is always BeyondTV http://www.snapstream.com/ for Windows. It's a one time fee for the software and will act as a Media Center PC just like MythTV. Either option will work fine...I have found MythTV has a little more setup involved. If you don't want to build a DVR then I'm not sure if there are many options available to you.

I did the same thing. However, my entry into the shady world of DVD ripping started with Shrek. After having to replace it twice (over a relatively long period of time) I decided that this enforced re-purchasing program was not for me. Now I use AnyDVD and DVD Decrypter and rip all my purchased movies.

I then used Beyond TV and Beyond Media (with the indispensable DVD Library plugin) to watch it all.

I did the same thing. However, my entry into the shady world of DVD ripping started with Shrek. After having to replace it twice (over a relatively long period of time) I decided that this enforced re-purchasing program was not for me. Now I use AnyDVD and DVD Decrypter and rip all my purchased movies.

I then used Beyond TV and Beyond Media (with the indispensable DVD Library plugin) to watch it all.

I did the same thing. However, my entry into the shady world of DVD ripping started with Shrek. After having to replace it twice (over a relatively long period of time) I decided that this enforced re-purchasing program was not for me. Now I use AnyDVD and DVD Decrypter and rip all my purchased movies.

I then used Beyond TV and Beyond Media (with the indispensable DVD Library plugin) to watch it all.

i see no good reason for paying monthly fees for a company to give your information away. Using a crap computer and somthing like BeyondTV you get to watch everything from normal cable to free HDTV... that's more what I am for. Enjoyed it every since i got it.

You can do that with Beyond TV Link. There are other ways, but Link is pretty easy. http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtvlink/

I have a Snapstream Firefly RF remote, and it's the bees knees. By which I mean, it's totally awesome. I find myself getting pissed off when I have to use other remotes and actually aim them. It works fine with LIRC and seems to have most of the buttons nicely labeled for MythTV operation.

Another benefit of RF remotes in general is that you don't have to worry about finding an HTPC case with a built in IR receiver, or where to put the external receiver so that it won't look tacky. Just stick the RF receiver on the back of the thing and be done. The range is excellent (at least 40 feet and through walls).

There is also this alternative... http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/defaul t.asp?a=96&gclid=CJnY_IL_-4gCFRBcSgodBxzeqA

Yes Their's Beyond TV by Snapstream http://www.snapstream.com/ supports software tuners as well as hardware tuners, HD tuners and USB tuners.

    And My 'Fav' Sagetv By Fry technoligies http://www.sagetv.com/ supports hardware tuners HD tuners and added support for software tuners as well as USB tuners and runs on java. Sagetv first forged support for multi hardware tuners before anybody else back when even microsoft said it wasn't possible and in my view they have the most developed software on the windows side. Now everybody supports multi tuner setups some better than others and it's insane the number of tuners and HD space some people have setup in their systems 6 or more tuners with upwards of 1 terrabyte or more HD space incase they want to record 6 or more channels at once.

    THeir's also Microsofts WIndows MCE which came along after Sagetv, Beyond TV and Mythtv being from micorsoft they have worked hard to make up lost ground and it is a good software/OS (You have to buy the Windows MCE OS to get it so if you want it and have windows already your stuck). MCE also supports hardware tuners and HD tuners as well as i belive USB tuners. I dont know about software tuner support but really if your doing non HD tv hadware tuners are the way to go they use less cpu cycles and have less issues with crashing.
  With HD their isn't any need for hardware encoding as the shows come in as a digital encoded stream already the tuner just dumps the stream to the drive and thats it.

    Their is also Mythtv for linux as well as a Sagetv version on linux using java.

    Mythtv has been around for a while on the linux side they started out using software tuners but since moved into hardware tuners and lately I belive into HD as well as i think USB tuners. Mythtv is a great PC PVR solution if you can go through all the work involved with setting up linux and myth as well as any and all dependancies etc.. It's also free as is many flavors of linux.

  The Linux sagetv is pretty much the same as the windows version but it runs on linux using Java the same basicly as the windows version runs on.

    But Mythtv for linux and Sagetv and Beyond TV for windows are the main ones that have the most developed software and support of hardware etc..

    Though some may argue that point but I have used several and I found the one I like the best was Sagetv even though it uses java it does it quite well.

    Their are also pre made box's out their that you can buy with hardware and software preinstalled if you don't want to go through all the work of doing it yourself. Their much more expensive but if you really don't want to or can't do it yourself then their pretty much the only way to go.

    So try thoughs out or do a search on the web for PVR software and happy hunting.

If you want freeview going through a pc (the DIY part) then get a freeview pci card or usb box and plug it in. You can use Myth on Linux, or various solutions on Windows XP such MS Media centre, Media Portal, (I was going to add Meedio, but it seems they've been bought out by Yahoo), Snapstreams "Beyond TV".

If you're on linux, then you could use the Hardware compatibility list at LinuxQuestions to help in choosing a card.

There is a nice selection of DVB-T cards available at DVBSHOP in Germany, which I have used, and they are pretty good with quick orders. They also sell Common Interfaces for some of the DVB-T cards so you can add a TopUp TV CAM and smart card and get subscriber stuff.

Ok, so you have to build the box yourself, but that's DIY for ya !

If you can be bothered, here's a list of my media centre related bookmarks -

Bookmarks

media centre

I screwed up the link... it's http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/defaul t.asp

Well, the better way to do this is to use turner cards that do onboard video compression instead of using the CPU. That way you can make almost any computer work. http://www.snapstream.com/Community/articles/pvs_s ervice/ ...and you can then add tons of tuners that will record all at once without really taxing a modest system... http://www.snapstream.com/Community/Articles/medus a/default.asp

Well, the better way to do this is to use turner cards that do onboard video compression instead of using the CPU. That way you can make almost any computer work. http://www.snapstream.com/Community/articles/pvs_s ervice/ ...and you can then add tons of tuners that will record all at once without really taxing a modest system... http://www.snapstream.com/Community/Articles/medus a/default.asp

Snapstream built a box with 10 tuners a while ago. http://www.snapstream.com/Community/Articles/hydra /default.asp They used five Hauppauge PVR-500MCE cards which each have two tuners.

These guys used an odd mix: 3x Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500, 1xAnalog PCIe Tuner: PowerColor, and 4x Digital HDTV Tuners.
So I guess the 3 analog cards are 2 tuners each, then the other analog tuner, and 4 HDTV via USB = 11.

Spinal Tap would be proud.

Bah. MythTV hasn't had a release in over 6 months now, and I'm not very familiar with the Linux internals to make it all work pretty.

In the meantime, I'll save the cash from my time by downloading and running SnapStream's BeyondTV: http://www.snapstream.com/

Ok ... it's not a Linux solution, but it runs well out-of-the-box with a large number of tuner cards and is a pretty slick-running device. Records to MPEG-2 and DivX, which is really pretty nice.

Perhaps this would work. A Hauppauge satellite receiver card with cabling?

I asked some higher ups here at SnapStream about getting some photos of Beyond TV 4.0 =) Enjoy.

- Main Menu - This shot shows of the new theme for BTV 4. Please note that the red bar color itself is likely to change. Its currently a hot topic on the beta forums for some reason.

- Library Information Screen - A really useful screen that you can do compression to divx, copying, playback, and browse information about your recorded shows.

- Time-Shift Dock - This is the control panel that you can use while watching tv to pause, stop, rewind, record, and back-capture tv. My appologies for having to use static. Don't want to get sued here.

- Transparent Guide - The transparent guide allows you to browse through whats on without ever having to stop viewing what you are watching. Very nifty feature. Once again, sorry about the static.

* PLEASE NOTE (FOR ALL YOU TROLLS), THE ART THEME IS NOT FINALIZED

Why build a 2 channel system when for $1200 you could build a 6 tuner stand alone 24x7 system? What's Tivo's price for one of those?

http://www.snapstream.com/Community/Articles/medus a/default.asp

I assume you've heard of SnapStream's FireFly remote it too is RF based... decent range. *shrug* I like it better than remote wonder 2 imho.

rampy

I've seen tom's being used for HTPC articles on /. before. But fact is there are better more in depth sources of HTPC information online. These sites and software are dedicated to HTPC and all the of the options associated.

Check these out:
http://www.htpcnews.com/

In particular their forums:
http://www.htpcnews.com/forums/index.php

Some great software:
http://www.meedio.com/
http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/

In response to the question asking if you can build this for under $200? I have a friend that used a 733mhz P2 with a lower end capture card, the two pieces of software above, a firefily remote (http://www.snapstream.com/products/firefly/) and a bit of reading on those forums.

In short he has an HTPC up and running that cost less than $200 CDN and has more tweakability (is that a word?) than most tivos.

A.C.

I've seen tom's being used for HTPC articles on /. before. But fact is there are better more in depth sources of HTPC information online. These sites and software are dedicated to HTPC and all the of the options associated.

Check these out:
http://www.htpcnews.com/

In particular their forums:
http://www.htpcnews.com/forums/index.php

Some great software:
http://www.meedio.com/
http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/

In response to the question asking if you can build this for under $200? I have a friend that used a 733mhz P2 with a lower end capture card, the two pieces of software above, a firefily remote (http://www.snapstream.com/products/firefly/) and a bit of reading on those forums.

In short he has an HTPC up and running that cost less than $200 CDN and has more tweakability (is that a word?) than most tivos.

A.C.

Commercial Products and Services:

ReplayTV: TiVo's ancient nemesis, it also 'just works'. I can't say whether it is more user friendly than TiVo, but it is far more customer friendly.

Windows XP Media Center Edition: Yes, them. Choose from multiple manufacturers but expect to face Microsoft Corp's version of the 'personal' computing experience.

Hardware vendors are now pushing DVD/HD Recording devices quite a bit. RCA, Motorola and Panasonic have products available.

Service Providers like Comcast and DishTV are now providing time shifting hardware and tv-on-demand solutions. Check with your choice of cable or satellite service provider.

Hobbyist Solutions:

MythTV: The Open Source, Do-It-Yourself DVR. Expect to build your own machine and play around a bit before it works the way you want. (Linux)

Freevo: MythTV, but not. (Linux)

MediaPortal: Who ever said Open Source was limited to Linux software? (Windows)

Meedio: It was a community based freeware product (myHTPC) that morphed into a commercial product without warning. Still a reasonable alternative to Microsoft for PVR function on the Windows platform. (Windows)

eyeTV: This Mac product has me seriously considering picking up a Mini-Mac to use as a media center. (Apple)

SnapStream (Windows)

SageTV (Windows)

Chris-TV (Windows)

ShowShifter (Windows)

On a personal note, I purchased the ReplayTV when it was first released and am entirely satisfied with it. Plus, by purchasing early I have never had to pay a subscription fee for data that is freely available elsewhere. If there had been a subscription fee I would not have purchased it.

Dan

I would suggest you look at Snapstream Beyond TV.
Snapstream Beyond Tv, Beyond Media and Firefly Remote

To build your own PVR with MythTV or BeyondTV. It's more work, but you have more control.

FWIW besides Windows MCE 2005 the other windows PVR/HTPC solutions don't have any DRM (just mpeg2 goodness)

i.e. the free as in beer gbpvr, the not so free (except for the trial) BeyondTV, SageTV, and Meedio (there's more but i'm tired of typing in URL's already =) )

e.

Or a Beyond TV PVR bundle. $160 USD, NO subscription charges, works in any PC, and can be controlled over the internet to schedule new recordings or watch/stream existing recorded shows. With hardware MPEG-2 encoding, I don't notice any performance drop while it's recording.

I got mine when I upgraded away from an All-In-Wonder card, and I'm lovin it.

Hauppage Win-PVR 350

Hauppage Media MVP

SnapStream Beyond TV

" So for all you Canucks out there... Tivo doesn't so much work in Canada, so what do you all use for your PVR option?"

I believe snapstream's beyondTV supports free canadian listings/guide data other pc pvr products usually support canadian listings via xmltv spec/plugin.

e.

First of all, MythTV and Mediaportal are not competitors. Not yet. For them to be true competitors, they need to just work out of the box. Don't get me wrong, they're great products, but they're not true competitors in the average consumer market, just like Gentoo Linux is not a competitor with Windows XP.

And the other two products mentioned are not real competitors. If you hate "Microsoft bloatware", these are not the products for you. From the Snapstream Beyond TV System Requirements page:

• Microsoft Windows XP Home, XP Professional or 2000
• DirectX 9.0 or greater

• Windows 98, ME, 2000 or XP
• DirectX 9.0 Runtime or later
• Windows Media Player 7.1 or later

If Media Center Edition fails, it will be because of price and competition from the cable companies, not because of competing software. Users who buy media center PCs will stick with Windows Media CEnter Edition, because that's what it'll come with. Just like people stick with XP Home, because that's what came on their computers.

Consumers want something that just works. Hobbyists, enthusiasts, and power users may be interested in picking their own TV tuner card, and setting up MythTV, but they do not form a large percentage of the market. You have people now who have Tivos because they "just work". Tivo made something that looks like a VCR and has a remote, and that (combined with cable and satellite companies giving them away for free) more than anything is what will kill windows MCE.

From what I've read about Microsoft MCE and all of its DRM and content restrictions, I have to agree with both of these articles.

The average consumer (again, they're the ones who influence the market, not us) doesn't care about DRM, yet. They can play their CDs in the car or on their stereo - it doesn't matter if they can't rip them to MP3.

However, ironically, MCE may be the thing that wakes up Joe Consumer to the dangers of DRM. If this doesn't, the broadcast flag of HDTV might. Currently, if Joe Consumer misses a show, he can stick a tape in the VCR. And even tape the game, despite the NFL telling him not to. When he fires up his Media Center PC, and hits record, and gets a message saying "You are not allowed to do this", there's going to be a huge backlash. But we're not there yet.

Snapstream's Beyond TV already allows you to do this with their software (as long as you have a software based TV tuner card). You can stream live, or recorded video over the net at a variety of qualities. I can use it to watch live TV from work at a medium bitrate, or stream high quality video over my network to any screen in the house.

Interesting that this article ran on slashdot today becauase SnapStream just started shipping their Media Center software package, Beyond Media: http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondmedia/. I've been using it since it came out. Big thumbs up. I've been using their PVR software for a long time (Beyond TV) and this measures up to that (which is to say, it's really really good).

I suggest trying both and seeing which one "feels" better to you =) Snapstream does indeed have a free trial.

e.

For those who are like me and don't want to deal with the configuration of Myth on linux with all of its dependency goodness, have a go at Beyond TV. It worked for me and I like it a lot. The new version (3.5) will do multiple tuners too.

For those who are like me and don't want to deal with the configuration of Myth on linux with all of its dependency goodness, have a go at Beyond TV. It worked for me and I like it a lot. The new version (3.5) will do multiple tuners too.

I think there is a category error here. ReplayTV or Tivo are not direct competitors to MCE - different setup, different price points. People buy something like a ReplayTV precisely because they want to deal with as little PC-like cruft as possible. Which, of course, MCE offers in droves. MCE still requires too much sit-up effort rather than a more comfortable TV-like sit-back groove. It's possible it may always be burdened by this because of its full-scale Windows nature.

Surely the closest competitor to MCE is the equivalent PC PVR software such as SageTV or BeyondTV (or even the crappy pack-in software from ATI or Hauppauge). I know MS wants to imagine this is otherwise by not easily unbundling the MCE software from the hardware base, but it's a fact.

More stuff about (mostly) PC PVR software.

They also forgot about my favorite SnapStream

It's on the windows side of things, but it does a good job. Time shifting, on screen display, web interface.... There were previous discussions before on this topic on slashdot.

I haven't seen MS's stuff though... so I have no idea how it stacks up.

As soon as I get my mini-itx rig going I'll be using MythTV though. (I have to order some parts and cannibalize a dead laptop!)

" "Offer a software package for sale that will run on any Windows-based PC. TiVo should leverage their name brand recognition and become a powerful software player."

If TiVo were to offer their software separately, why would I buy it, when I can go and get something like MythTV for free?"

besides the work in progress windows based mythTV client, myth isn't really available for windows...

Of course there is GBPVR which is windows and free as in beer.

Sage TV IMHO ( review ) is pretty close to usability as Tivo... and there's also SnapStream's Beyond TV ... both are windows based commercial software PVR solutions which there ARE a market for.

So, in short even though YOU'd download knoppmyth or mythtv for free... others would be interested in TiVo on teh windoze platform... (or on linux for that matter).

Regardless of platform (win/linux) if tivo created a software package that installed as easily as the settop box... and was as easy to use it would be of interest to people on BOTH platforms... (even with knoppmyth/etc I don't think it's *quite* easy enough for "anyone" to install and configure... but it's certainly getting there)

E.

Let's not forget about Snapstream with it's web and 10-foot based administration. I've been using it for a long time and it has a larger feature set than both Tivo and Media Center if you include the up and coming Beyond Media. It even does dual tuners now like Myth TV.

Here. I used it briefly, and it was nice. However, it was lacking some important features that MMC had for me. I didn't like WinDVR for some reason.