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Linux Drivers For Free Barcode Scanner Cease-And-D...
> How complicated is the driver/what does it do?
It isn't terribly complicated. There's two programs that I wrote in the package, and one I did not. All are based on the "libcue" I wrote, also in the package. The deocder algorithm is a simple modified base-64 XOR 67. Jean-Philippe 'JP' Sugarbroad figured it out, and Colin Cross wrote code based on it and made me aware of it. I re-implemented it for the learning experience. The program named "decode" reads in a line of output from the cuecat for stdin or as first argument. CueCat output looks like this:
<ALT-F10>.C3nZC3nZC3nYDhv7D3DWCxnX.cGf2.ENr7C3b3DNbWChPXDxzZDNP6.
decode splits the Cue output into fields separeted buy ".". It ignores the first field and runs the rest through the base64+XOR decoder. This becomes the first line output. Digital Converegence added some additional "encryption" to their Web service; their program takes the output of the cuecat and inverts its case befoe sending it off to http://[server].dcnv.com/CRQ/1..[activation code].04.[cuecat scan].0
[Server] can be a, o, s, t, or u. [activation code] is supposed to be the activation code you get from your registration, but can be simply "ACTIVATIONCODE", which is actually what my spftware puts there. [cuecat scan] is the raw output of the device, minus the ALT-F10, with case inverted. Their servers send back a little blob of text containing several fields, including a suggested URL and description. Libcue parses those out and makes them available to its clients. Here's the scan of an NADA car-guide book:
The output of decode looks like this
DATA 000000001768443202 IB5 978034533392650599
CUE 0345333926
AMAZON 0345333926
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345333926/104-2159322-9263954
Ringworld Larry Niven
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0345333926.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif
The gnome panel applet reads in CueCat scans, looks up the :Cue at DCNV servers, and redirects Netscape to the suggested site, if any.
> What does their commercial software do exactly?
The same thing mine does, without the amazon lookup and with some annoying GUI features, like a tabbed CueCat panel.
> How many lines of code?
1258 according to "cat cuecat-applet.c cuecat-applet.h decode.c decode.h libcue.c libcue.h | wc -l"
Michael makes another interesting point in a seperate e-mail
When they sent the letter (Aug. 30), my software did not touch the DCNV servers to look up :Cues. It simply decoded the data, and if an ISBN number was scanned, the panel applet made Netscape go to the Amazon page blindly: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/[isbn number here].
So it was not the use of DCNV servers they objected to, but the mere decoding of the output of the cuecat. I didn't release the :Cue and Amazon lookup-enabled version until yesterday (Aug. 31), when the FedEx letter arrived by overnight delivery.
Thanks to Michael for taking the time to answer this stuff. It's pretty scary when the stuff that you have can't be poked at without a corporation demanding you stop. Imagine if Ford had said you can't open the hoods of your car a hundred years ago.
Update: 09/01 02:49 PM by CT : Freshmeat has a perl script CueCat Decoder that will also decode the CueCat's output.
Update: 09/01 02:57 PM by CT : Russel Nelson pointed out that Lineo's Driver has also been taken down following a cease and desist from Digital Convergence (CueCat's parent).
Nice to see that someone has time on their hands to worry about someone actually doing them a favour.. Amusing to see any legal letter addressed to flyingbuttmonkeys.com though :)
Did you have to sign any kind of agreement to get to walk out with the barcode scanner? Or did the salesperson verbally explain to you "Now don't go and do anything naughty like writing Linux drivers for this, or reverse engineering how it works" or the like? I mean, if you didn't, and you aren't adding to the load placed on their servers, I don't see that they've got a leg to stand on... of course, that's purely opinion. I mean, if some dude's girlfriend gets all hot and bothered and uses it to masturbate, are they going to sue her for finding a use of it outside the one they intended? I think not.
Mirror the code on servers in those nations
God bless the lack of a single world government.
You cannot license physical property, only intellectual property. Therefore, you cannot create derivative works that would infringe on the CueCat patent, but they cannot prevent you from developing software that exploits its capabilities. I'm tempted to release commercial software that utilizes the CueCat to allow users to purchase through affiliate sites on the Internet and, since *I* am not reverse engineering their product, there is nothing anybody can do to stop me.
Please repost your code at www.flyingbuttmonkeys.com. The letter you received from Kenyon and Kenyon was written by a drone who is paid to act, not think. The letter does not say
anything about removing code, ceasing and desisting, or eating soda crackers. By reposting your code, you make Digital Convergence more irritated. Digital Convergence will again ask Kenyon and Kenyon to make another form letter addressed to you. The letter will contain many ambiguities that will designed to intimidate you into removing the code. However, you will have the last laugh because Digital Convergence will again be billed by the lame law firm of Kenyon and Kenyon for another no-content letter. Anyone can write a letter that claims you are conflicting with what they are doing and that you are "damaging" them. Let them fart upwind.
Thank you.
I know there must be other systems like this already out there. Does anyone remember one from maybe a dozen years ago that printed long stripes? At one point there was talk of computer magazines encoding their source code listings with these stripes on the bottom of the page to enable scanning in the source code.
As far as the corporate annoyance, since these guys know enough to write a linux driver to read these things, they should be able to write a driver to write these codes. Then encode DeCess with it, print it out and send it all over meatspace.
Nelson Munze ("Haw Haw!").
Unsolicited Merchandise Federal law prohibits the shipment of unordered merchandise. Such a practice may constitute an unfair trade practice. Merchandise mailed in violation of United States Code may be treated as a gift by the recipient without any obligation to the sender. The laws governing this practice are enforced by the Federal Trade Commission. If you believe that you have received unordered merchandise in violation of federal law, contact the Commission's Bureau of Consumer Protection at:
BUREAU OF CONSUMER PROTECTION
FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
WASHINGTON DC 20580-0001
http://new.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pub s/201/pub20110.pdf
N.B.: The USPS is now a .COM. I guess since they lost so much money the last quarter, they'd be cool, too.
(posting this again, this time non-anonymously)
The lawfirm of Kenyon and Kenyon are active in the IP (Intellectual Property) arena, and their website is at www.kenyon.com. The partner who wrote this CnD letter, James Rosini has an email address jrosini@kenyon.com.
I think instead of just grumbling about these things here, we should make an attempt to have a discussion with Mr. Rosini, and try to convey to him what we think is wrong with his thinking.
Such a design would not be free, but it would be Free.
And ironically enough, most of the parts are available at your local Radio Shack...
We need a mirror list of this software. If you have a mirror email me at peri@logorrhea.com - Current mirrors: http://www.logorrhea.com/cuecat
http://osiris.978.org/~brianr/cuecat/
It's called the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
Note that I didn't use a CueCat. This was several months ago, before the CueCat program started -- I just went out and bought a scanner. Nonetheless, you could do the same thing, and I've gotten email from people who plan to.
Feel free to use my code. Python scripts, GPL, kind of ugly (and note that one needs correction since Amazon changed their page layout.)
I signed nothing, I read nothing, I didn't even give them my name. I ripped open the bag, tossed the papers and CD in my pile of useless CD's. I took a screwdriver to the case and looked inside (rather dull actually).
I agreed to NOTHING!
In short, it is mine to do with as I will. I can write other software for it, sell or give it to someone else, let my dog chew on it or take it out back and use it for target practice.
I'm surprised they found a lawyer who'd even write up the cease and desist as they don't have a case. It's been decided by the courts before, if you give something away for free it's no longer yours to control.
I think he should go to court just so we can hear the judge and lawyers say "flying butt monkeys" a lot
I got one in the mail, unsolicited, from Forbes magazine.
There is an app that gets installed BY DEFAULT called "catscan.exe". If you run it instead of the tray item it grabs the device output and shows you the plain test decoded data.
---
Don Rude - AKA - RudeDude
RudeDude
Perl/Linux/PHP hacker
If you want other bar code scanning hardware try: http://www.csensors.com/index_b.html
Other misc bar-code info (TONS OF IT): http://www.adams1.com/pub/russadam/
---
Don Rude - AKA - RudeDude
RudeDude
Perl/Linux/PHP hacker
The encoding is a base64 (not MIME tho) with a random XOR thrown in. Each letter is a base 64 (6 bit) number, a is 0, z is 25, A is 26, Z is 51, 0 is 52, 9 is 61, + is 62, - is 63 (and fill in the blanks between there). A group of four of these 6 bit numbers are combined into a single 24 bit number, which is then split into three 8 bit ASCII codes (XORed with 67).
Taral corrected my first perl script to solve the short code problem. If a group of 4 characters is not complete (ie there are only 2 characters), it should be padded with 0's ('a' in the base64 encoding), and then follow the same decoding process. Then chop off the same number of characters from the decoded string that were padded onto the encoded string.
No tables/codes should be used anywhere - it is simply a coincidence that they work for numeric values, because the top 4 bits of all the number ASCII codes are the same, 0011 binary.
If you want to print your own barcodes I suggest the encoding called "Code 128". I found a company (Elfring Fonts) that sells windows fonts and software to make it easy to encode your own stuff: http://www.barcodingfonts.com/
---
Don Rude - AKA - RudeDude
RudeDude
Perl/Linux/PHP hacker
It bugs me when people use cat(1) when they don't need to. What the hell is wrong with:
% wc -l *.[ch]
It saves 1 process!
Anyway, with that little bit off-topicness over with, I'll head back over to comp.unix.shell...
If anyone has a new version, please put it up somewhere 0.05 is here
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
At which point, the software for Linux is compariable to clean room interoperability (legal by DCMA) and to junkbuster. Both which are legal, AFAIK.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Betcha most of them fit into under a page, and well within the constraints of a ./ message...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
The same principle will hold true for just about any language offering easy access to hash tables; the program can be made data-driven, and be both minscule and incredibly fast.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
What needs to be written is the "user space" side of things, which essentially amounts to an interface that takes ISBN numbers read using the scanner and then "does something useful."
That's not "device driver" work; that's application work. Feel free to be inspired to work on apps or drivers; don't assume that the info here provides any guidance on dealing with device drivers.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Really, do 3rd degree burns and reconstructive surgery from a much hotter than standard coffee (about 180 degrees instead of 140) sound frivolous to you? Can we just leave the McDonalds lawsuit out of the stupid lawsuit examples?
"What are the three words guaranteed to humiliate men everywhere?
In Republican America phones tap you.
I don't know either but I would offer the example of focusing sunlight on a magifying glass on a piece of paper. It doesn't burn right away but leave it on long enough and it will burn. Its likely that she was probably wearing pants or a skirt with some kind stockings. We know that she was in her car when it happened. So at the very minimum she has to stop the car, jump out and take her garments off. I would think that the continued exposure would act in the same way. If you need another example think of going to the beach or a pool. The longer you stay in the sun the more you will burn. Also though 3rd degree burns are characterized by charring it is also classified by the extent of the damage to the skin. A second degree burn while serious usually results in only minor skin damage with blistering. Yes she was dumb for putting hot coffee in her lap but I doubt coffe served at 140 would have resulted in such permanent damage.
"What are the three words guaranteed to humiliate men everywhere?
In Republican America phones tap you.
Ok, this has gone far enough.
Here's my mirror of one of the packages, a description of the encoding and a taunt for Digital Convergance to 'come get some'. http://www.beau.lib.la.us/~jmorris/linux/cuecatDemocrat delenda est
No, only "effective" copy protections of copyrighted material may not be broken under DMCA, but in this case, the barcode information is not copyrighted and therefore the cease and desist letter is completely bogus.
--
They don't want people to grab these things to replace the $300 wands (not that they could - they are junk.) They want people to grab them for their data-tracking.
Part of that info sent back in the stream is an ID for the cuecat. This way they can say that the user who scanned this ad, also scanned this ad, and scanned this cd/dvd they have at home/work.
I doubt that they care that someone broke their encryption - big deal. They are probably more concerned that people will be able to use them as just regular bar-code scanners without them getting the needed personal info to sell.
...right now. I've got a laser to shine on it, a motor to spin it, a photodetector to pick up the reflections of the laser light and a program on my pc that takes those electrical impulses and then uses them to generate various sounds and visual pixel patterns on my crt.
It's really pretty cool. I can watch and listen for hours at a time. Sometimes the pixel and sound patterns can really be captivating. If there are any really neat pattern sequences, I can make the laser go back and shine on the same section of the polycarb disk and it will make the same sequence of sound and visual patterns again. Just the same, if there are any boring sections, I can make it skip over those.
You can find these polycarbonate disks in lots of places. They come in these flat, square little boxes. The boxes have pretty pictures all over them. If you buy the box, you get the disk inside for free! I guess you could use them as coasters to hold your drink while you are looking at the pictures on the box, play catch with your dog or something) One thing that I found out is that if you buy another box with the same set of pictures, then the patterns made by the light reflected off of the disk inside are the same. The really neat part is that if you make sure that you buy a box with different pictures on the outside each time, then the sound and pixel patterns are different for each disk!
It's great fun, you ought to try it out!
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
DVDs.
They are hardware. So is my disk spinning device.
They both shine lights on stuff and have detectors that pick up the reflections. There is also software for both that takes the reflections as input and makes patterns on the screen dependent upon the input.
I don't have a "player"
I don't have a "license"
I have some software that takes the reflected light patterns as input and makes images and sounds. It was not produced by the same company that produced the disk or the hardware that spins it.
Getting a clue?
I'm not violating any license agreement.
I'm not revealing any trade secrets.
I'm not defeating any access control mechanism.
I'm not pirating copyrighted works.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Forbes Magazine, in connection with hardball buisness maneuvers... who would have thought? :-)
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
No no no, it was after she spilled the coffee that this info was found. Listen I believe she was in part responsible for what happaned the problems with this case that no one seems to bring are:
1. McD was heating the coffee at 180 degrees instead of 140 which is the "safe" limit
2. The management of that particular McD was incontact with the head office telling the head office that the coffee requirement was too hot and their customers were complaining. (The head office specified the 180 deg temp)
3. The woman only originally asked for McD to pay PART of her medical bill. She knew she did something dumb, but the severity of the burns were because the coffe was unsafe to even drink.
4. McD refused, and a fat lawyer got involved who uncovered the previous complaints as well ast the comunications with the head office about the temperature of the coffee.
5. Her lawyer sued.
6. She was awarded 10 million, Which was later put aside. (IE she never got it)
7. McD now heats their coffee to 140 degrees which is still DAMN hot. Go try some.
8. McD but this stupid lill warning on the cups saing "Contents are hot!" and fed the media about how people don't take responsibility for their actions.
9. A lot of people BOUGHT it.
The way I see it McD was at least in part at fault in this case. But THEY refused to admit it and it cost them.
---------------------------
Yes there is a lot of I'ts not my fault I'll sue cases in this country.. this was not one of them.
Ex-Nt-User
Even more scary - if you read the enclosure that's with the scanner.
Someone else said there was a slip of paper in with the scanner that said "This isn't yours. You're just borrowing it from us" or something to that effect. I didn't get such a slip with mine.
Are they asssuming everyone's a big enough moron to trade their privacy for a barcode reader they don't really own?
FWIW, they didn't take my name or scan anything in.
I just asked them if they were giving away free scanners and they said, "Sure, I'll get you one."
Before I knew it they put the scanner and the catalog in a bag and I was on my way.
I had a similar experience when I picked up another cuecat at the Radio Shack in Billerica, Massachusetts. The clerk just gave me the scanner, no catalog, and told me to have a nice day. However, when I picked up units at the Radio Shack in Tewksbury, Massachusetts, I was asked for a name and address and also given a catalog. The clerk scanned at least one of the items.
From what I can tell, they don't check to see if it's your name and address or just a name and address. If you give the name of an existing Radio Shack customer (try Smith), however, they'll use the information already on file saving you a few questions.
that serial number is probably easily matched up to the store where you picked up your cuecat device, or even to your name if you gave it to the clerk at the store.
Ummm... No.
The clerk who took my name entered it into the computer and then scanned the cuecat (or the catalog, I'm not sure) before giving it to me. Even if the serial number wasn't definantly associated with the identity I gave at time of purchase, it was certainly associated with the store location. There's no doubt that Digital Convergance would keep track of which serial numbers got shipped to which Radio Shack locations.
Furthermore, from what I've heard there's a potentially identity revealing registration process one must complete in order to use the Windows software.
Even if Digital Convergence doesn't know a person's exact identity, they know at the very minimum what Radio Shack store the scanner came from and thus very approximately where they live in most cases. And that's more than enough to increase the value of any marketing/profileing data they collect substantially.
Every cuecat scan results in some garbage that looks like the following:
Hidden inside that code is the barcode type, and its numeric or alphanumeric equivilent. But there's more: There's also a serial number. And that serial number is probably easily matched up to the store where you picked up your cuecat device, or even to your name if you gave it to the clerk at the store.
The first item in the second line is the serial number. Then the barcode, and then the numeric value of the UPC type A code. This serial number stuff is real bad news. It's like a cookie that can't be turned off, and it gets sent to Digital Convergence every time you scan a barcode that brings you to a web site using their software.
Of course, they're going to be pissed about people using their barcode scanners without their spying software: They want to make money by seling your personal information. They know where you live. They know what books you read, and they know what products you buy, all by what you scan with their little cuespy.
The cease and desist letter they've sent is a vague piece of crap. Its sole intent is to intimidate. They have no legal standing. First spying, now intimidation tactics? I think perhaps it's time for a TLO to investigate Digitial Convergence.
I've mirrored the standalone cuecat decoder software at http://osiris.978.org/~brianr/cuecat/.
I got two of them and gave them two different false addresses. Maybe not the most up-and-up way to get around their supposedly-allowed "recall", but I don't feel that their covert data collection is too legit wither. (Yeah, I know it's buried in their FAQ/legalese, but that's just a cheap shot on the consumer. I want big freakin' letters that say "we give you this to track your habits." Yeah.... sure....).
:P
The way I see it, they'll be trying to recoup losses againt non-existant persons. That and without installing the software/breaking the cd seal, I'm not subject to the EULA.
Is this device covered by some sort of EULA (not the software, but rather the device) that prevents reverse engineering? If not, than they have nothing to sue over, besides standard legal manipulations that we're all familiar with. This needs to be delt with quickly and appropiatly, by retaining legal council and verifying that they have no legal leg to stand on.
Is this a forbringer of a day where reverse engineering is illegal? Where everything is sealed and consumers own nothing but rent them from major corporations? Maybe not, but it's enough to make one wonder.
If there's ambiguities, etc. that either invalidate or otherwise, they can't claim that the interpretation that is most favorable is the one that's the correct interpretation. Legally speaking, they have to be explicit in everything or it causes a loophole. Since they weren't explicit on the packaging, a claim on the WWW site doesn't give them footing in this regard.
(Just because it's in the boilerplate at any location, doesn't mean it's legit- loads of companies alike try to pull fast ones all the time!)
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Maybe they are mad because the "intellectual property" is their "encryption".
So... wouldn't reverse-engineering their (rather weak) "encryption" violate the DMCA?
Be polite. There are secretaries on the other end of that phone number who are not to blame for the decisions their companies make, but whose job it is do public-interface on behalf of their superiors. Same goes for digitalcreations.
Are you allowed to wipe your butt with a USA flag? I can't remember whether you're allowed to burn it or not, but if not I expect the same law would apply. Look on the bright side, though: at least it's not exactly a corporation telling you you can't (well, sort of).
"The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
there is a faq at www.crq.com/faq.html You can also order a free one from their site if you give them your address. -weld
When I got mine (two of them) from Radio Shack,
they just handed me the Cue:Cat in a baggie
w/a CD-ROM, and a catalog. There is no legal
license agreement saying I have to agree to
anything to use the hardware - *ONLY* if you
install the software (on a Windows box) do you
have to agree to anything. I dont see where
they have a case here. Nothing is being
reverse-engineered, its only being decoded and
interpeted.
I'm going to write them - I was planning on
writing a review of the unit in conjunction
with the Sun PS/2 keyboard interface box and
Sun's PCi pc-on-a-card product for PCI-bus
SPARCstations (I actually got it to work).
Now, I'll throw it in a drawer, and put up
mirrors of this guy's code alongside my
DeCSS archives.
Quoth the poster:
But, they are probably smart enough to realize that if they made a stink about it it would get that software distributed faster and make more people interested in the product to begin with.
Quite possibly. I remember when I was a lifeguard, I learned that the quickest way to get a kid to run on the pool deck, was to tell them they couldn't. I guess at 23, the generalization of that applies to me. The quickest way to get me to get myself a copy of DeCSS, or the software for this, is to tell me I can't have it.
Gotta give their lawyers credit, though. At least they delivered hard-copies instead of the emails that certain other rights-stomping organizations send.
To whom it may concern:
When I first heard about the Cuecat device I must admit
I was impressed. I wanted one and, hey, it's free!
Imagine my dismay when on the same *day* I picked up
a Cuecat from Radio Shack your company and it's lawyers
decided to issue a cease-and-desist letter to the author
of one of the few peices of cuecat decoding software
for my choice of operating system. I am not pleased.
As I'm sure you're aware, the Sega vs. Accolade case
(among others) solidified the legality of the reverse
engineering of technology for the purposes of
interopability. You cannot use an unenforceable licence
to stifle it, nor can your bullying tactics dam the flood
of Free Software Cuecat decoders.
The way I see it you have two choices. 1) Continue your
fruitless bullying efforts and alienate the entire
Free Software and Open Source community (incedently,
said communities are composed of very, very influental
personalities.) 2) Embrace the Free Software and
Open Source communities and work *WITH* the authors
designing Cuecat software (and possibly *gasp* contribute
*code* to their projects...) and reap the benefits of
an expanded user base.
The choice is yours, though the only reason I can
imagine you not opting for choice 2 is that you're
doing something unspeakable in the guts of your
C.R.Q. software.
I myself an am influential person. I provide support
and advice for many companies and individuals in the
St. Louis area. If your lawyer-dogs are not reigned
in promptly I will have no choice but to caution
my family, friends and my paying customers to not
use your Cuecat device, your Convergance Cable device nor,
especially, your C.R.Q. software.
I have already downloaded several alternative Cuecat
decoding software packages. The most useful of which
is a book cataloging package. I intend to use and share
these pieces of software freely. I also intend to use
my skills to improve and refine them. This can not be
illegal, nor I might add immoral. You have given me a
device that can be used for more than it's intended
purpose, and for that I thank you.
In closing, I'd like to add that people like me, hobbiests,
hackers, and just plain inquisitive people made the Internet
into the tool that it is today. The tool that you use
for your marketing purposes and the tool you have based
your business model on. Let me re-iterate: Hackers
built the Internet. It is not wise to raise the ire of
the same people who provide you with your email. Your
web services. Who create the protocols you depend on.
Who route your packets. You want bullying? Well there
it is.
Re7+!!
End Game. Your move.
--J(K) DOS is like Unix in exactly the same way that a pinto is like an aircraft carrier.
True, but right now I'm free to use e.g. yesterday's newspaper instead of TP, and even if I bought toilet paper, I'm not legally obligated to hire the midget to use it.
Certainly. Human nature is what it is. I'm just bitching because most people seem so damn naive about it...
DNA just wants to be free...
Nader calls this Corporate Socialism. I'm beginning to think he has a point.
Some days I wonder if we're headed toward a society where you can't even wipe your own butt for yourself, instead of having some corporation do it for you (for a nominal fee).
If you did it yourself, you'd be depriving some butt-wiping company of revenue, you see. Putting honest, hard-working people out of jobs, for heaven's sakes!
(if you disagree, you're a communist butt pirate and should be shipped off for re-education)
This is severe hyperbole, of course, but unfortunately something very near that mindset is truly already out here in corporate-land.
DNA just wants to be free...
But the software and drivers support OTHER "Cue"'s. If you want to write a driver to interpret audio Cue's from your TV, that's possible too (not that I can find a list of Cue-enabled TV shows anywhere). This is just a load of crap to make us have our uses of the codes tracked.
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
IANAL
These people do not understand that we are not tring to any wrong.
Message to the company
We are just creating an application that can use YOUR product. We would think you would be happy about this. Do you understand if your company tries and stop people from exploring the possiblity with your product. That you will hurt only your own sales. Instead of tring to stop this you should at least try and work with the people who could possibily be creating a set of customers for you.
Well, no. There's no fine print in a cash transaction. I went to Radio Shack. I gave them money for a purchase, and this was included for free. No contract was signed, so the Uniform Commecrial Code applies. A contract was fixed at the time of sale. I gave them my name, address, etc. They gave me the scanner. A simple quid pro quo transaction. The fact that there's a piece of paper in the packet that purports to be an enforcible contract is really laughable. It is invalid and cannot be enforced. This is doublely true if you never installed the software. If you did, The Cat people can say that you agreed to the contract since the packaging for the cdrom contained the right warning lables. Since I never installed the software, or even opened the cd package, I never agreed to a modification of the contract that was fixed at the time of sale.
In other words, They are going to have a hard time enforcing the supposed contract.
In addition, the item was not free, but given to me (and everybody else) for good and fair compensation, namely the personal information. It can be shown that this information has a monitary value (just look at how much email lists and snailmail lists sell for), and therefore the exchange could likely be viewed as a "sale" for the purposes of the uniform commercial code.
Software is a special case because it has labels on it stating that you are agreeig to a license, plus presents you with the license and a chance to repudiate the license and get a refund (in theory at least, when was the last time someone was able to return software they didn't like the license terms to, say, CompUSA).
So I think they are SOL unless you installed their driver software. Which I've never done. I've not even taken it out of the packaging.
P.S. If I were the author that got such a C&D letter, then I'd demand they get a whole lot more specific about what, exactly, was in violation. Such vague letters are easy and cheap to write and are meaningless in many cases because they aren't specific. Ask them for specifics. What, specifically, are they objecting to. What gives them the legal right to object to it (copyright claim, granted patent claim, trade secret, etc) so you have a chance to audit their claims. If they refuse, then you are in a much better position later if they file legal action against you.
Its probably not worth it. They're just sending threatening letters with vague comments about "intellectual property". I fail to see any protectable intellectual property in what they do, or what the Linux drivers do. You can't copyright protocols, they have not patents I'm aware of, there's no trademark infringement. All thats been done is the reverse engineering of something they might consider to be a trade secret, but in themselves trade secrets have not legal protection.
They haven't a leg to stand on, and I doubt they'll even find grounds to sue.
Det var jävla dumt sagt. Now IKEA knows you're abusing their IP (IKEA Products). You're in trouble now! :-)
Teach your kids: "C++ made baby Jesus cry."
The DMCA does not require that the protection schemes applied to copyright works have any sort of minimal strength.
Could not the argument be made that text if encode in the ASCII data representation stored in binary on a digital media be enough of a coding scheme that any machinery decoding this text is in violation of the DMCA. Send someone a email message, mark it copyright, then if they even view the message using a computer they are in violation of the DMCA.
Don't boycott them. Attack their buisness model, go to as many stores as you can, collect as many CueCats as you can, either throw them out or put them in storage. Destroy their buisness model which is to gain and sell information on users to fund the cost of manufacture and distribution. Collecting and not using devices costs them.
In any case if they see a large number of devices being picked up and do not get a similar number of registered hits on their site they are going to know they are in a lossing situation. Just not getting the device means you are just a customer that has not "encountered" their technology yet. I would rather be counted as a "failed" customer. It hurts their bottom line more.
Nobody offered him anything. The strawberry was minding its own business when this stranger came along and savagely consumed it. Not only that, but it was pure gluttony too, as the man obviously didn't need the nurishment of said berry if he was in such a predicament. PLANT RIGHTS NOW!
I just e-mailed copyleft with this rather obvious, but funny idea. Take the core of the code, the part that handles the actual communication with the device, and encode it in a barcode font. Print on t-shirt.
Beautiful, no?
-Waldo
-------------------
What's incredible about this is that CueCat seems to make money from various other streams (licensing fees, privacy violations, etc.), so I can't imagine why they'd be opposed to geeks embracing their technology. This is extremely shortsighted of them.
What I enjoy knowing is that there's that *one* Linux user that works for them. S/he's quietly sitting in the corner, head shaking, saying "I told you so...."
Don't mess with Tuxas. (Or something like that.)
-Waldo
-------------------
It used to be that everyone tithed 10% to the church. I think if we want to continue to keep our 'freedom to innovate'
Robert
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
Hmm. Supposedly if J. Random Hacker writes software that causes (say) a $1000-- loss to a given corporation, this corporation can sue J. R. to recover this amount of money.
But if J. R. writes software that causes our hypothetical corporation to have an increase of (again, say) $1000--, does this mean that the corporation has to sue J. R. to pay her or him some or all of this negative damage?
Maybe these suits are afraid of & the cost of tracking down random hackers to reimberse them for their contributions.
In a nutshell, this is what this whole stupid act on the basis of these legal sharks come down to: someone writes software that increases the market for their hardware, & they get told to stop it.
And if I'm being a smart-*ss about this, it's Friday & these same legal sharks don't deserve any more of my attention than that.
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
Really, do 3rd degree burns and reconstructive surgery...
I don't care what the courts think happened to this woman, but you can't get 3rd degree burns from anything that contains water. A 3rd degree burn happens when skin or flesh is burned away. I don't know what the ignition temperature of human flesh is, but it is well above 100 C, when her coffee would have turned to vapor.
pedantic? yes. pointless? yes, but so was the suit
0 1 - just my two bits
There's no need. The PERL version mentioned in the article will run under PERL for Windows. Hell, it's even in a .ZIP file. It might have been written in Windows.
-- Spring: Forces, coiled again!
I've read in a lot of these post where people claim "I just opend the bag and plugged it in. And I threw away the CD. So I I didn't use the software and therefore, I'm not bound by the EULA."
Well, what do you think is producing the datastream that you are grabbing? A microcontroller with some custom software. So while you didn't use the software on the CD, you are using Digital:Convergence's software. And any lawyer will argue that the EULA covers both end-user software and the software embedded in the barcode reader.
So bottom line, your screwed and bound by the EULA if you used the barcode reader.
Is Wassenaar in Holland? Geography was never my strong point.
K.
-
-- Proud descendant of semi-nomadic cattle-herders.
I had a couple minutes and wanted to see what I could find out about James Rosini, the man who signed the LegalLetter. The only notable thing I found was that he represented AT&T when AOL tried to sue over their supposed trademark of "You've Got Mail." Here's a link: http://techlawjournal.com/cour ts/aolvatt/Default.htm
-- Grow up and use mutt.
Now that the horse is out, and their CEO is no doubt in danger of getting offed by their board for making such a boneheaded mistake, they're trying to lock the barn door by calling in the IP lawyers. I wonder how long it will be before they figure out the obvious solution, which is to respin the hardware with a simple protection mechanism and start distributing new hardware and drivers?
If these bizarre things could be compiled into an on-line database, perhaps it would ease the research burden of any idealistic lawyer who feels like attempting a counter-suit. Or maybe the EFF or the Greens or some such group could organize a class-action suit, on behalf of all U.S. citizens who aren't corporations.
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
Read the radio shack website for the necessary clue of WHY they're doing this. Companies don't give things away for free just for fun. There's always a catch that allows them to make money. In this case, its marketing info. This is a quote from the faq at Radio Shack "What happens to my personal information (like my name, address, and e-mail address) when I register and use the :CueCat?
Any personal information (such as your name, address and e-mail address) collected online
when you register and use your new :CueCat is held and owned by Digital Convergence
Corporation (not RadioShack). To view Digital Convergence's privacy policy, Click here.
Unless you give Digital Convergence permission to share your personal information with us,
or unless you register or purchase on RadioShack.com or volunteer information at a
RadioShack store, you and your shopping habits remain anonymous to RadioShack.com.
Click here to view RadioShack.com's privacy policy."
They only gave you this "handy" device because they want you to register and and scan lots of barcodes, so they have lots and lots of information about your personal interests, so they can sell your information to direct marketers (think human spam).
When you write a linux driver, you bypass all the secret sending of private info to their servers, which means they can't make money off you.
- Can someone post any relevant copyright and licence and eulas on the device itself. Any discussion without this is pointless.
If they intended the Cue whatever to be a loss leader to a binding service than oh well... We know what happens to ideas like that after a post to Slashdot. Anyone remember the EOpener? If this was the CC model they are already ready for chapter 11Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
I wonder how much money in letterhead and stationary that law firm could save if they'd trim the list of names on the header. Dumbass lawyers.
Seriously, RadioShack has for years collected all sorts of demographic info on its customers (or at least the ones who're stupid enough to give it to them). Why couldn't they just tap into ratshack's database for each customer who walks away with one of these devices? Cuecrap gets the demographic info, and ratshack gets you to come into one of their stores and potentially walk away with another purchase.
Massive proliferation is one of the few ways to defeat bullshit like the DeCSS mess. Congratulations on making the correct (if obvious) choice.
No, we shouldn't.
In normal countries in Europe the judges would just laugh if anyone brough up cases like DeCSS and this one (and all the claims for money. e.g. the macdonald and hot coffee case) :)
Øyvind
I believe one or more companies have patented the "idea" of using barcodes in printed advertising to link consumers to web sites, and to allow price comparisons. They are probably referring to some kind of patent in this space.
If you're gonna have ISBNs automatically go to a Web site, it would be better to have 'em go to something like ISBN.nu, which lists prices at many stores, not just the dreaded Amazon.
-j
My boss got one of these. Brought it in to me at work to ask me about it. Glad I recommended he not install it. Personally, I want to send it back to them, but broken into many little pieces. (Including the software, especially if it can be smashed in the packaging. If these things are being given away free, why don't we all exercise a little civil disobediance and return our broken bar code readers. Be sure to get one from every location offering them that you can. Then have plenty of hammers ready. Fun for the whole family.
Digital Wokan
I wanted to spend 8 years defending the US constitution.
I threw mine away the day it arrived in the mail. Can they force me to go the town landfill and hunt for it if they "recall it at any time"?
I don't fs*kn think so....
Regardless of the temperature, I find it ridiculous that McDs lost the suit. It's friggin coffee. If you put coffee (HOT) in your crotch and drive, you SHOULD get burned, and probably be beaten to death for the rest of your life for being a risk to other drivers.
Personally, I far prefer to use the instance of a boat enthusiast on Lake Michigan suing Weather24.com for the cost of his boat + pain and suffering for failing to mention a storm in the area that ended up sinking his boat. It's a much better example of litigous idiocy.
Notice that on the second page of the letter from KENYON & KENYON they cc: a certain John Huncke, Digital:Convergence Executive Vice President of Business Affairs. From checking his bio linked above, you can see that he previously was an attorney for various media corporations and "a clerk at The Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, Arkansas during Hillary Clinton's tenure", which should tell you a lot about his outlook towards intellectual property and innovation.
I walked in to RS, asked if they had any, the guy threw one down on the counter, I picked it up, and left. I agreed to no restrictions, signed no documents, did not even give them my name. The packaging required to get through to open the cutcat hardware had no licenses or references to licenses. I broke no seals beyond ordinary packaging (plastic bag). The hardware component itself has no reference to licensing, beyond, "For home or office use" and the fact that it is patent pending.
:cue:cat "reads any product code and isntantly transports you to the corresponding website"
Even moreso, it was manufactured by Tandy, NOT Digital Convergence. it was manufacuted under some agreement.
The instruction booklet has no license agreement or mention thereof.
It says the
I have not opened the CRQ Software package, and cannot be held to licenses within it.
I'd love to see Digital Convergence try to take it back and not get charged with theft.
(What's the PC term for "indian giver"?
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
Eh? Even if I were to accept the wildly controversial assertion that opening the software causes you to be bound by the license, there's still a big problem: just about everyone here (except for the Windows users) didn't open the software. The CueCat got plugged into the computer, and the unopened Windows software went into the trash, just like the Windows drivers disk that comes with most the hardware that we buy.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
So if your code looks nothing like theirs, they won't be able to prove that you violated their copyright by posting it, and everything will be copacetic.
Of course, IANAL.
And I'm glad I downloaded that stuff yesterday.
--
send all spam to theotherwhitemeat@ropine.com
Now, CueCat, I'm guessing is concerned that RadioShack will stop giving away the scanners because they can be hacked to work with competing barcodes. Thus they'll stop sending money to cue cat. But I don't see any legal basis for there case. I mean no copyrights were infringed, no licenses broken. Reverse engineering (outside of the realm of the DMCA possibly), is a long defended right. If CueCat does sue, I can't imagine they'd stand a chance.
That being said, if one cannot afford the lawyers and take the risk of being sued, then this may be a somewhat moot point (and you know cuecat is hoping for that). So, everybody get your check books ready, looks like we're gonna have to send some more funding to smack down the dumb corporations.
---
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I don't think he was talking about Georgia, Virginia, or any of the 'civilized' southern states...
;)
Think Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi
These guys are funded by Microsoft. If you doubt it, check out Net Talk Live, another one of their operations here in Dallas. If anyone does get into a legal process with them, be sure to demand in discovery to see all the agreements they have made with Microsoft to ensure that only Windows gets any support from this device.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
I wrote a Javascript :CueCat decoder-- is it illegal? I certainly do not have the legal resources or time to stand up to a challenge like this at all-- if I get a letter of some sort like this down the road, what can I do short of going to court? If there aren't any other options, I will have to take it down when the letter comes. I thought I was being a general nice guy, and providing a useful tool for people. What is wrong with decoding the output of a barcode reader? Does this make cash registers illegal? Libraries?
I find it rather troubling to hear that DC is threatening legal action against people who use its product (the CueCat) under Linux by writing their own software to interface with it. Perhaps you could explain to your customers why you choose to threaten them, without the cloak of legal doubletalk. All in all, this is definitely a great way to stir up support for your product on the Net. I'll be sure to throw away my CueCat as soon as I get home from work, and tell my friends to do the same.
I wonder why they don't send a nastygram to the folks at http://www.readerware.com/ also?
Din't we see this with DeCSS?
If i were him id reply telling the company to
shove it up their ass. If I get a program its
MINE, not THEIRS. Screw them. Even if they said
stop, id keep passing it out. on MY server.
If they tried to hack the server, id sue them.
You'd think that once someone gives an item away, or sells it for that matter, that you are free to do with it as you wish. There's gotta be something that covers this.
Just more BS from lawyers. The feds sure as hell handed them a huge plate to eat from with recent legislation.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
The solution to such actions is a boycott of CueCat, and companies that are in league with it.
, 00.html
t ml
Boycott Radio Shack.
Send customer service feedback that you are doing so.
Send email to digitalconvergence that you are doing so.
The url for contacting Radio Shack is http://www.radioshack.com/ContactUs/Index/0,2050,
The url for contacting digitalconvergence is http://www.digitalconvergence.com/contact/index.h
I've already sent mine to them.
The battle doesn't just have to happen in the courts, it can also happen at their profit margins. Remember to tell as many people as you can to also boycott Radio Shack. Geeks made em, geeks can unmake them.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Spread the word these :cuecat sucks. Lets have a contest and see who can collect the most.
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
#include string.h
#include ctype.h
#include sys/time.h
#include sys/types.h
#include unistd.h
#include "libcue.h"
main(int argc, char **argv)
{
char sample[2048];
struct chunks *c;
int bs;
char *s;
if (argc > 1)
{
c=convert(argv[1]);
if (c != NULL)
{
if (c->data != NULL)
{
decode_type(c);
if (c->formatted != NULL)
{
printf("%s\t%s\t%s\t%s\t%s\n", c->head, c->serial, c->ctype, c->data,c->formatted);
}
else
{
printf("%s\t%s\t%s\t%s\t\n", c->head, c->serial, c->ctype, c->data);
};
};
free(c->serial);
free(c->data);
free(c);
};
}
else
{
while(1)
{
bs=read(0, sample, 2047);
sample[bs]=0;
c=convert(sample);
if (c != NULL)
{
if (c->data != NULL)
{
decode_type(c);
if (c->formatted != NULL)
{
printf("%s\t%s\t%s\t%s\t%s\n", c->head, c->serial, c->ctype, c->data,c->formatted);
}
else
{
printf("%s\t%s\t%s\t%s\t\n", c->head, c->serial, c->ctype, c->data);
};
};
free(c->serial);
free(c->data);
if (c->formatted != NULL)
{
free(c->formatted);
};
free(c);
};
};
};
};
That wouldn't have stopped users on oher OSs from using it. In fact it would have made it easier.
-Leo
> But there's more: There's also a serial number.
So take your kid to RS, put his name on the forms, and tell him to scan the bejesus out of everything he sees for a week.
Then you can send them an e-mail that says "Go directly to jail".
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
J. Jovan Philyaw is the CEO of Digital Convergence (the company behind the :Cue:cat). He's also the executive producer of NetTalk Live. It looks like NetTalk Live is an interactive talk show about computers, the web, etc. that allows people to ask questions.
It might be interesting to join the next broadcast and see if we can get some comments from ole J. Jovan about his company's actions
It looks like Digital Convergence is using the information that is sent to them during the registration process and associating that with an "Activation Code" in their database. Then, everytime an item is scaned, the "Activation Code" is sent with it. So... when users start scanning everything they own, just for the fun of it, Digital Convergence starts a nice little database of demographic information connected to what goods you have purchased, which books you read, what cd's you listen to, etc, etc. They are outraged because the software created by the Linux community has no concern for assiting them in accurately building their database. It sends "ACTIVATIONCODE" as the activation code. That provides them with no useful information whatsoever. Things are starting to make sense now.
You are right, they don't have a leg to stand on. IANAL, but if I am given something and am not required to sign or agree to something before being handed the item, and I never open any software, break any seals or anything, how can I be bound by a EULA. That would be similar to the fine people at Sam's Club giving me a sealed envelope with each free food sample they give out. And then, when you open the envelope it says, "Each food sample costs $50.00. By eating the food sample you agree to pay us $50.00." That just doesn't work.
I hope you have enjoyed it.
This comment can only be read through RayBan sunglasses. I know I said it was free, and it is free. But it more like a Loan. You can borrow this comment, but only if you look at it through RayBan sun glasses. Anything else, and you are violating my Intellectual Property and "damages will acrue".
It's simple. They give the software away for free, but you have to register at their website and give them an e-mail address and fill out some demographic information. That way they can make all sorts of fun lists indexed by e-mail address of what products interest you in the Radioshack Catalog, and what other items you are scanning. It's one big demographic information gatherer.
Unauthorized software allows the possibility of an end-run around their demographic gathering. It destroys their poorly thought out business model. They don't gather this information, they don't make money.
BIG FAT IANAL
A friend of mine pointed out that Cuecats are being sent to various subscribers of Wired and Forbes and possibly other magazines as a promotion.
Now IIRC, federal law states that any unsolicited merchandise received by mail is a gift. This federal law would supercede any click through license agreement. It's no longer theirs, and you're free to do with the hardware as you see fit.
This page says that you "get your new :CRQ system including the :CueCat reader free". This would seem to me that these things become your property when they are delivered. The licensing agreement states that it is on loan from them and may be recalled at any time.
I can't see how they could use the DMCA to defend their claims. The DMCA protects against access to copyrighted works without the authority of the copyright holders. So unless the majority of barcodes are copyrighted and permission to read these barcodes is restricted to the :CRQ software, I can't see how it is relevant. They may be encrypting the output of these bar code readers, but they don't own the copyright on the bar code contents.
From klund:
Hear, hear!I also sent a letter of support to Michael, asking if he thought a letter to this company would be an aid at this point. But here's a tough question. What if their model is a micropay per wand-wave? How do we help them make money with an Open Source product in that way? It's a tough call, but I think this is the best way to honor our Open Source considerations (those who have them) while helping a company pay the hardware costs for such a device.
Ideas? I'd recommend e-mailing Michael (his address is on that site in the article) and give him your support and advice, too. I think soild, reasonable suggestions for them to make even more money work best. Companies always like to hear how they can make money, after all. *SMIRK*
----Woodrowflyingbuttmonkeys.com in a legal breif..
I mean can you imagine going to trial against flyingbuttmokeys. How can anyone take that seriously.
Seriously these lawsuits are taking the fun out of writing code. It seems anything you write violates many patents..
Nope, they don't have a legal leg to stand on because this is what they call a clean-room environment. One guy figured out the sequence of characters, and another guy wrote the code. Perfectly legal. Maybe they are mad because the "intellectual property" is their "encryption". BFD.
Lowmag.net
at least it's not :Hampster, in that case.
*ducks*
Lowmag.net
What I don't understand, is why technically savvy people are willing to give up their freedom and good government for money. Move to Canada: you won't get as much money, but then you won't have to spend as much either. And our government has no intentions of catering to corporate lobbists anytime soon.
I took a look at the letter and nearly fell out of my chair laughing. Here are some pieces:
"It further includes not only the direct infringement made by Flyingbuttmonkeys.com, but also any infringement which Flyingbuttmonkeys.com induces others to perform. The longer that Flyingbuttmonkeys.com continues its improper activities, the longer damages will accrue."
and further on
"both we and Digital Convergence intend to continue monitoring the activities of Flyingbuttmonkey.com...".
improper activities of flying butt monkeys! monitored by our learned friends at Kenyon & Kenyon!! ROTFL!
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
You think the lawyer's haven't already thought of that?
Besides, that means they'd have to store bazillions of those damn contracts. Overhead that would eventually cost more than the cuecats themselves.
BTW, thanks for the polite reply, 5h1tf@ce.
I am writing to express my utter disgust with your corporation's heavy handed
tactics against innocent programmers trying to use the CueCat on other
operating systems. The free CueCat software that has been developed and
posted to the Internet in no way infringes on your intellectual property. It
is simply a driver for the device! I am certain that no use was made of your
copyrighted material (i.e. software that came with the cuecat) to learn to
decode the cuecat's output. (It really is not a difficult thing to do simply
by analyzing the output of the device.) Also, note that users of the cuecat
are not required to sign any form of non-disclosure agreement so no
"intellectual property" could be released there. As for Trade Secrets, do you
think that someone broke into your property to steal a secret that could be
decoded by anyone with a pencil, paper, and a bit of time?
Obviously, we aren't talking about patents here or trademarks. So nothing is
left. Your use of the legal system to stifle free development of software that
supports your device is utterly reprehensible and you deserve to be sued for
harassment!
Hehe. There other product is called the convergence cable. It hooks the audio from your tv/cd/stereo into your computer. There software will listen to "special messages" embedded in the audio. These messages of course will take you to various websites. Sounds like a lot of peoples worst nightmares.
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
It looks like the same policy as the IEEE, standards may use patented inventions but the patent holder is required to license the patent under openly specified, reasonable, non-discriminatory terms.
I recall the same thing about receiving someting in the mail you didn't ask for. It seems to me that if DigitalConvergence is trying to impose some sort of "contract for use" to a product they mailed to people that did not ask for it, that contract must be considered unenforceable. Can anyone say mail fraud? maybe not, but it sure seems fishy. IANAL
But if you received the product in the mail unsolicited...then the EULA is null and void. Read the federal postal code here
US Code Title 39, Part IV, Chapter 30, Section 3009. Here is an excerpt:
(b) Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated as a gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender. All such merchandise shall have attached to it a clear and conspicuous statement informing the recipient that he may treat the merchandise as a gift to him and has the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender.
This section also references Title 15, Chapter 2, Subchapter 1, Section 45, regarding unfair business practices. I thing The barcode scanner manufactures could sue DigitalDirtbags on unlawful distribution.
US Code Title 39, Part IV, Chapter 30, Section 3009. Here is an excerpt:
(b) Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated as a gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender. All such merchandise shall have attached to it a clear and conspicuous statement informing the recipient that he may treat the merchandise as a gift to him and has the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender.
This section also references Title 15, Chapter 2, Subchapter 1, Section 45, regarding unfair business practices. I thing The barcode scanner manufactures could sue on unlawful distribution.
Postage Due.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl dominos.
You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
-- Colonel Adolphus Busch
I have a mirror list of all the mirrors mentioned on slashdot. If you wish you add a mirror, email me at peri@logorrhea.com
Mirror list: http://www.logorrhea.com/cuecat/mirror s.html
I eat dog. Free DVDs. Horray!
Quite right. If they want a contract to stick they need to make it known beforehand. "Sir, if you'd like one of our free barcode scanners and will agree to our agreement, you can have it."
Same goes for EULAs. If you buy something and didn't agree to a contract beforehand, you can use the software in any way you see fit, as if it were a book. The maker has no more power to restrict your actions than a book publisher has to restrict who can read the book, etc.
You may be bound by a license if you use the free software, because you haven't already paid to use it, but if it was bundled with the scanner which was a gift for making a purchase (ie, they gave it to you) then you're safe there too.
> When you pick up one of these scanners do you have to fill out a form or sign anything stating that
> you intend to - or must - use this scanner only for their special barcode catalogs?
Well, if you install the software that comes with it, it mentions that you don't actually own the physical device, you are just "licensed" to use it, same as the software. I'm not sure, but it might have had a clause about use, and I do remember them saying they could recall.
I think they'd have a really hard time getting anyone to give "their" property back anyway. Can one license a physical object?(as opposed to renting or something)
Fortunately, for me at least, I never installed said software(somehow the cd ended up in the microwave before I finished plugging mine in), so I own this thing free and clear as far as I can tell.
I don't remember where and I am too lazy to look, but somewhere in the fine print (whether it is in the manual or during the software installation, I don't remember) it states (in legalese) that they are only letting you borrow the CueCat and that at any time they may wish to recall it and you _have_ to give it back.
Yes, welcome to the future, where nothing in your posession is yours - you have simply been given a license to use it.
Yes that is the one thing ConversantShogun pointerd out here... The whole license is contingent on you seeing it. I checked everything that came in the little plastic baggie, including the manual and the CD case and there was no copy of the license there. It just said that using the software was contingent on accepting the license - it never said anything about any license associated with using the hardware... loophole possibly?
Here is the exact text, from their site: :CueCat reader is only on loan to you from Digital:Convergence and may be recalled at any time. Without limiting the foregoing, your possession or control of the :CueCat reader does not transfer any right, title or interest to you in the :CueCat reader.
The
If you want to view it yourself, check here and go down to the third heading called "Permitted Uses and Restrictions". Read about halfway down that section, then be careful you don't hurt youself as your jaw drops into your lap.
We at digital Convergence think that there's something wrong with what's on your website, so you should take it down. We're not going to tell you what we find objectionable, however we will spew some marketing speak about the number of hours and dollars invested in no-brainer technologies that we have created.
Thank you for your help in making us look like morons.
Amazing how there's not one bit in the letter describing exactly which IP they believe he's compromized or what they find objectionable on his website. Perhaps they just want him to Cease and Desist living...
Just cuz you ain't paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.
And he runs the site named "/."
Would you believe there are no trademarks in the U.S. which use the word "Desist"? I actually checked the database.
Due to the recent /. discussion about PayPal, I checked...the "Support EFF" page on EFF.Org does invite payments through PayPal as well as several other electronic and traditional services.
Sir,
Please remember that when you acquired the refrigerator the notice on the box required that you only use it for storing USDA-approved food, that it be filled only by a licensed professional, and that cleaning be done only by our certified maintenance facilities. We have noted that users often lose the magnetic external storage accessories, but you can easily buy approved replacements at the manufacturer's official web site. Violation of your usage license or use of unapproved accessories requires that you return the appliance immediately, without opening it after the violation occurs.
I believe the DMCA prohibition is limited to reverse engineering copyright protection mechanisms or some such. It certainly isn't a blanket ban on all reverse engineering.
It doesn't mean charred meat.
EDUCATE yourself!!
What are the categories of burns?
The treatment of burns depends on the depth, area and location of the burn. Burn depth is
generally categorized as first, second or third degree. A first degree burn is superficial and
has similar characteristics to a typical sun burn. The skin is red in color and sensation is
intact. In fact, it is usually somewhat painful. Second degree burns look similar to the first
degree burns; however, the damage is now severe enough to cause blistering of the skin and
the pain is usually somewhat more intense. In third degree burns the damage has progressed
to the point of skin death. The skin is white and without sensation.
Maybe you don't realize how hot 190F is...
-- The Funk, The Whole Funk, And Nothing But The Funk
She wasn't driving...
Why can't people read before posting....
-- The Funk, The Whole Funk, And Nothing But The Funk
I and a friend here were under the impression that if one uses an IETF standard, e.g. RFC 1341 which defines Base64 encoding, one is obligated to allow others to use it freely. I can't find an explicit statement of that yet on the IETF pages, but if this is the case it would seem that Digital Convergence would be the ones in violation.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Is Wassenaar in Holland?
Yes, it's a suburb of Den Haag (The Hague)
HTH,
----
Dave
MicrosoftME®? No, Microsoft YOU, buddy! - my boss
- Dave
Because I subscribe to Forbes, they gave everyone a cue:cat to use. They are going to have advertisements in the magazine with links to URL's where you don't have to type anything in ... just swipe the cat.
...
When the package came in the mail, I was just going to throw the stupid thing away. But my girlfriend took one look at that and said, "that is _cute_!!" So, from that point on I had to install the cat on my computer and let her scan merrily way. I guess this is a form of cheap entertainment.
It's too bad that someone cam up with an actual _use_ for the stupid device. I'll probably get sued because I have a linux box in the same room that my GF uses to scan the ads in the magazine.
... sigh
Here is a cool link to an online UPC database that lets you scan an item's barcode with the CueCat and find out what it is (of course, you could read the item's label, but that wouldn't be any fun :)
- Crusadio
NO! We should NOT keep writing software for this device. There are plenty of reasonably priced bar code readers out there that don't even require drivers at all (their interfaces are typically described as "keyboard wedges" - they lierally make it look like you typed in the info. - all the magic happens in the hardware!)
Why should we even dignify a such a proprietary device with our support, especially after their behaviour and with good, and open alternatives? Simple bar code readers just aren't that expensive, guys... Go grab a cheap one, get a Code 39 (3 of 9) bar code font and go to town. (There are several other formats, but Code 39 is kind of the Lingua Franca of the bar code world, and I've found it the most common and standard format int he past...)
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last
- The plastic bag does not contain that "By breaking this seal..." acceptance of any license - just a generic plastic bag...
- The installation instructions do not contain any mention of a hardware license...
- The CD sleeve does contain the text "Opening this software constitutes acceptance...". Fine. I don't really want to use the software anyway - I just want to play with the moderately cool hardware.
- RadioShack did not have me sign any agreement or even imply that such an agreement between me and DigitalConvergence exists.
To me, this gives the impression that I have a nifty new toy with no strings attached... can anyone see where my logic is off?BTW, I used to manage a RadioShack store, and I remember the first time I saw "You've got questions, we've got shrugs!" in a Usenet post - LMAO!
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
As I understand it, the new optical mice use a ccd to grab an image about 1000/second, analys it and determin how much, and in which direction the mouse has moved. Why not allow the mouse to read, and decode barcodes too?
I admit, as scanners, the current crop of optical mice would not be particularly good. You have no specific idea where the sensor is. But, relocating the sensor to the (for example) top, left corner could make it viable.
From the Permitted Uses and Restrictions section of the CueCat license:
You acknowledge that the Software and :CueCat reader contain trade secrets and other proprietary information of Digital:Convergence and its licensors. Except as expressly permitted in this License, you may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, modify, rent, lease, loan, sublicense, distribute or create derivative works based upon the :CRQ software or :CueCat reader in whole or part or transmit the :CRQ software over a network or from one computer to another.
[snip]
In any event, you will notify Digital:Convergence of any information derived from reverse engineering or such other activities, and the results thereof will constitute the confidential information of Digital:Convergence that may be used only in connection with the Software and :CueCat reader.
DISCLAIMER: IANAL
This leagalize does give them a leg to stand on. It's a matter of whether a court of law will find it enforcable. I guess it's a lot like the EULA. As long as Radio Shack employees aren't forcing anyone to sign an agreement, I think this license is unenforcable.
-Jennifer
"effective" has a very specific meaning w.r.t. the DMCA, and is defined in the statute. It doesn't mean "functions well".
I didn't ask for Forbes to send these things to me; I haven't installed the hardware or the software, and I certainly never agreed to any relationship of any kind with DigitalConvergence. Given that, I don't see why am obligated to hold onto these things until DigitalConvergence decides that they want them back (and if they do they can send me pre-paid shippers: I have no intention of footing a postage bill to return something I never asked for.) In fact, as I understand it, these things came in the mail, which places them under postal regulations and I seem to recall a postal regulation which says that if someone mails you something you didn't ask for, it is yours. Like I said above, IANAL but I wish someone who was would comment.
Another thought: I never installed the hardware or the software, so how can I be bound by some purely hypothetical (from my view point, since I have no way of verifying it,) license agreement? If I don't install the software, which links me to their web site in order to register the product (as I understand the instruction sheet,) then why can't I hack the hardware any old way I want?
mjs
Here are a couple of e-mails I sent. The first was to DigitalConvergence, makers of this toy:
:)
"Our company has received several of your CueCat scanners via Forbes recently and I would like to know whether you would prefer us to return them to you or to Forbes, or to just trash them. While there is some potential value in this device, your company's business practices are offensive enough that we have no desire to use them at this time (re: "Cease and Desist" letters to developers of Linux drivers for your device.) Better luck next time.
Sincerely,
etc etc
Then I sent this one to subscriber@forbes.com:
"Please stop sending the CueCat device to subscribers of Forbes magazine at XYZ Corporation. We find CueCat's business practices deeply offensive and will simply dispose of any such devices which we receive. As subscribers to your magazine, we find your association with these predatory and possibly illegal business practices to be deeply disturbing and we hope that your choice of business partners is merely an temporary aberration, not an indication of future trends. Thank you very much.
Respectfully,
etc etc
Possibly they can be educated, possibly not. But I won't do business with either of them until they demonstrate some enlightenment.
mjs
I never agreed to any such contract. The CDROM (which I hadn't examined until now) says that by opening the software I agree ... I don't agree, so I didn't open the software.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
I think you are totally correct. I went and picked one up after this story came out, just to see the licensing and so forth. IANAL, but the way I see it, if you never install their Windoze software, then you never actually accept the license agreement. AND, even if you do, the Windoze License only mentions the software, NOT the Scanner itself. This would never hold up in a real court of law, IMHO.
Just last Sunday I saw a small article in Parade Magazine (the weekly rag that comes in your Sunday paper), saying that they are going to start placing CueCat barcodes to relevant articles/advertisements in their magazine as well.
No forms were filled out, no statement was made to that effect.
In fact, the salesdroid at RadioShack offered just the opposite -- "Pretty soon you'll be able to scan just about any barcode on anything and be taken to it's homepage and stuff, dude."
According to an earlier post, for analogy this to hold, this license would be posted INSIDE the store.
Only serve ice-coffee - much safer ;-)
People are stupid and can't take responsibility for their own actions (like spilling on themsleves). The feel the need to blame somebody else.
--
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
Having lived on three continents; America, Africa and Europe (Holland) I must say that never in my life have I lived in a country this chock full of morons. The lady bought coffe and PUT IT IN HER LAP IN BETWEEN HER LEGS. What in god's name did she expect to happen? And then sued. And got money for it? What is wrong with people in this country. Seriously, I know many intelligent individuals here but I find the overall populous to be incredibly simple minded. I hurt myself - who can I get money from? Stop looking to blame others when the blame is on yourself.
S.t.e.v.e.
Ok, ok, if that is indeed the situation then this case is exempt. However it still stands that the lady is, in the infamour words of Beavis and Butthead, a dumbass. I'm sorry, but putting hot coffee in between your legs is just stupid stupid stupid. No matter how hot the coffee is. Granted McDonald's shouldn't be selling scorching hot coffee... but still. Sorry for the above outburst, these sueing cases just really really irk me.
S.t.e.v.e.
I send the EFF an $80 check each month with only my email address on it.
Others should do similarly,
Josh
Plenty of projects, not enough developers...
Ummm... I have seen punctuation marks used in other names too: /.
Looks like we have another case of the stupids on our hands.
I can't wait until Burger King starts handing out free toys and then sends cease and decist letters to anybody using it for propping a wobbly table leg.
For crying out loud, this stupid instance will probably make it into court soon just like the stupid DeCSS case.
Why on earth do courts (yes, I know it is not in court yet, I am just proving that I am psychic;-) even bother to hear cases based on this crap?
Visit DC2600
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
This is slightly off topic of course, but do you realize that if you kill all the stupid people (assuming here that stupid person == anyone more stupid than yourself). You end up being the most stupid person on the planet...
I am all for keeping lots of stupid people around. Just make sure they aren't governing in anyform..
(of course this easily opens the whole debate on "what is stupid?"..)
If planning to do any progect that may involve upsetting goverment or corporate entities, be sure to host the progect on an odd domain name. At least then while you're dealing with legal hassles, you can still chuckle at pompous beurocrats intoning things like "flying butt monkies".
And ask them for Linux drivers?
Come on, they're going to be distributing them in WiReD, and everyone knows that most WiReD readers use Linux.
George
You know, when you get fired for downloading pron, you can always get as a cashier.
George
IANAL, but isn't the first-sale doctrine (brought up recently here WRT books) something that would come into play here? (It says that once you purchase something, it is yours to do with as you please and the seller has no control over what you do with it.) If it is applicable, then the proper response to Digital Convergence would be to tell them what they can go do with themselves.
The only snag I can think of here, though, is that nothing is sold to you here...they're giving these scanners away. Would that make any difference?
_/_
/ v \
(IIGS( Scott Alfter (remove Voyager's hull # to send mail)
\_^_/
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
I just dropped a note at their website. Maybe you should too.
Share and Enjoy
****
"I'd never want to join a club that would have me as a member" - G. Marx
Canadian World Domination
You'd think that once someone gives an item away, or sells it for that matter, that you are free to do with it as you wish. There's gotta be something that covers this.
If that was true we wouldn't have the DeCSS problem. Fortunately, Fair Use is supposed to be helpful here...although it only applies to media I think. I dunno, reverse engineering that does not circumvent security measures (BS) is legal even under the DMCA.
Chris
If an obviously evil and restrictive law such as the DMCA allows reverse engineering for interop, then I doubt that any other law (other than patent law) could possibly restrict it in any way.
Exactly. Sega vs. Accolade established that reverse engineering was legal. DMCA says that reverse engineering isn't allowed except for the purpose of interoperability. I don't see libcue as doing anything besides allowing interoperability, so libcue seems to be legal even if DMCA is upheld.
I'm writing to Wired to threaten to pull my subscription if they don't push back on CueCat.
AND heading over to eff.org to send some money.
This kinda crap has got to end.
What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
Ok, I know there isn't a snowball's chance that anyone will see this. There are already too many posts. However, this is my response to Digitial Convergence:
----
I'm normally a pretty rational guy. I don't get very upset about much of anything. BUT. Get your heads out of your stinking asses you nitwits! Get a grip on reality. Find out who the real enemy is (in your case Pogo has you pegged).
Don't fight the largest grassroots movement this planet has ever seen. Don't be deceived by preliminary injunctions. This movement is too big. All who get in its way will be ultimately crushed.
Believe it people. I'm not some pimple faced kiddie. I've been watching this movement from a distance for a time now. From a distance because I'm too old to become a part of it. But I am not too old to know when major changes in cultural direction are taking place.
This one's big, folks. Either make these new forces your allies, or die a bloody death (business-wise, I'm not an idiot).
----
satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
I wouldn't boycott RadioShack. It's not their fault. Lots of people are handing them out. It's Digital Convergence that's the problem. I imagine if you order a reader from DCNV for "shipping costs," you will be bound by their agreement.
See "i-opener" in the archives.
---- ----
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I've not given in yet. I jsut want to make sure that I don't bury myself deeper later without meaning to...
-M
---- ----
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I found a perl based cuecat decoder on freshmeat this is NOT a mirror, but at least it's something.
From his page: I'm beginning to think we're headed into a new age where private property is abolished -- but instead of everything being owned by the state, it will be owned by corporations.
I'm sending $100 to the EFF today. This kind of crap has got to stop.
I hope everyone who reads this article (and who can afford it) will join me.
--
My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth. Who wrote yours?
I personally picked up 5 units from Radio Shack.
Wife got 3.
Father in law got 2.
Brother got 2.
None of us signed anything, nor were we asked for personal information.
I'v not installed their software, so I am not bound by their software license. Additionally, there is no shrinkwrap on the cd. There was no hardware rental/use agreement signed. In local courts, this item will be considered a gift, there were no terms associated with the gift.
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
someone have a link to a mirror?
anyone have a savehaven account they can pop this on? I *HATE* it when you go to look for some source and find its been pulled. one would think it would be almost impossible to cleanly pull a piece of code off the net. one would think there would be a copy sittin in Google's cache or something. I'm still searching for mp3enc-mpi.
doh!.
Of course they track what you scan. That's the whole idea of these devices. They aren't just being nice and giving you something. They expect marketing data in return.
They messed up. If you don't install the Digital Convergence software you NEVER agree to any license or agreement. When I got mine from Radio Shack I signed nothing. I also didn't even break a seal to get it out of the bag it came in. I also never installed their software. I'm using the above mentioned software for linux.
:)
Since they can't win this, I hope the linux community keeps writing software for this device and DOES NOT ever go through the Digital Convergence servers. Let's show them what happens when letters like this get thrown around without thinking.
Good luck Digital Convergence.
As far as I know you cannot revoke a person's right to reverse engineer a product. Reverse Engineering has long been proven legal and cannot be revoked just because it is printed in scary legalese.
In fact, there is controvresy in the legal world as to whether or not EULAs are even binding in court.
The same can be said about the rest of the license. Writing it down means nothing until it has been proven or upheld in a court of law. They can add any caveat they want to this license. They can send out as many cease and desist letters as they have stamps for. It matters not.
The community needs to have the guts to stand-up and ignore these threats.
almost? from a european standpoint these eternal threats with lawsuits are getting increasingly funny. Just about daily, I read about (tm)(r)(c) sueing someone who offers an added value to their product. yup. it's funny. but it may just be my sense of humour, which at times is decidedly strange...
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
By reading this post you declare that you fully understand this post. We DEMAND that you CEASE and DESIST any and all uses of the word 'Gladiator' or any of the letters contained in the word 'Gladiator'. Your infringement of copyright is punishable under the DMCA or some obscure little piece of law that we managed to sneak in when congress wasn't looking. We also demand that you provide to us ALL adresses in your possession, as you have had the opportunity to alert them to the existence of the word 'Gladiator'.
signed:
G.E. Neric-Lawyer, esq.
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
After the DeCSS case (part 1) it seems obvious that encryption (however weak) may not be broken if only you can pay the lawyers (maybe 'legal encryption' will become more secure than 'quantum encryption' soon, stop all that science at once, maybe we can soon make planes fly by simply forbidding them to land ... oops got sidetracked there) now since the output of their device is 'encrypted' noone may decrypt it without properly licensed decoders.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
I think the OSS implementation should be ported to Windows (just to embarass them further), after the legal hassles are sorted out (I think they really don't have a case).
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
http://blort.org/cuecat/
Happily accepting corrections and additions. :)
--
NO!!! Don't boycott!!!
In fact, I plan to become a BETTER Radio Shack customer because of this!
Hell, there are four Radio Shack's I can think of off the top of my head between work and home. I'll be taking the time to stop at EACH ONE on my way home tonite to pick up my free barcode scanner. Hell, I bet Radio Shack's webside has a store locator... the SF Bay Area is SURELY rife with them. I could devote a couple hours over the weekend to picking up as many Cue Cats as I can reach Radio Shacks. Rinse, Lather, Repeat... when a different salesdroid is working the store!
>and make my peers do so as well
Hey! So will I!!!
And mabye I'll tape the wonderous scene of hundreds of CueCats being dumped into the bay!!! Compress to Quicktime, and email to both Radio Shack AND digital convergance!
john
Resistance is NOT futile!!!
Haiku:
I am not a drone.
Remove the collective if
Imagine all the people...
So... if I leave my TV and computer on for a few hours, what am I gonna get, three hundred sixty nine windows, one web page for each commercial that was on?
Oh... and the CD pouch says, "Opening this software [note: it's an unsealed pouch!] constitutes your agreement to the license terms..." I dunno about anyone else but I never opened the pouch, and there's no license agreement on the HARDWARE, so upon what do they base their claims?
God almighty!!! Did I miss "drop your brain and forget everything you ever learned in your entire life" day? AHHHHH!!!!!
People who trivialize the McD case simply haven't taken a close look at the facts - 3rd degree burns are no fun.
A barrista at my local caffeine dealer had an accident with one of their large coffeemakers last week and ended up with 2nd degree burns (large blisters) from her right hand to her elbow, really ugly, not to mention painful. Will she sue? Nope - the company's covering her medical expenses, etc.
The woman in the McD case was much more severely burned with a smaller quantity of much hotter coffee, and as the previous poster's pointed out would've originally settled for medical expenses if McD's hadn't been such pricks about it.
Does anybody know if RadShack will distribute these in Canada? If not, anyone South of the Border wanna pick me up one?
What if every time someone gets a threatening quasi-legal-looking email/letter, they respond with a true legal response, suing for harassment? I'm certainly no lawyer, but this should be easy enough to do pro se, right?
Help BigGreedyCorp.com rack up legal expenses. Take your case as far as you can sans lawyer and they'd be overwhealmed with cases.
Of course, this has the negative side effect of flooding our legal system with even more garbage. But it seems that cases truly worthy of court time are few and far between anyway.
Ya know, I've got an idea...
:Cue:Cat's from every RadioShack and where ever and microwave them... in the bag. And then mail the glowing, chared remains back to Cue (or whom ever) -- postage due of course.
Why not gather up all the
I don't know how much damage that would do to the electronics, but the CD would certainly be a gonner.
I gotta wonder:
:)
If I send the people that make these things a letter, and in that letter, include my address and the following notice:
"This letter contains valuable marketing material in the form of my name and address. By opening this letter you have agreed to send me 15% of your company's annual revenue in exchange for this information."
Sure, it's outrageous, but what's the difference between their shrinkwrap licenses and this, except direct monetary compensation?
None, methinks. So I think I'm gonna produce some letters in short order.
I think they are complaining about the use of Cue Cat not the creation of the barcode software. Any others agree? Ken
If you have some razor/razorblades backend business model then you had beter make sure you have your Linux software ready the same day you ship .... or pissed potential customers will write their own software and in effect hijack your platform ....
In short fuck with their business model ....
I have to agree here. There were no visible license terms until on opened the plastic, I specifically asked the store manager about "what was the catch" and he said "I don't know what's happening--they are being very secretive" and I did exchange my name and address (so "I could receive updates") for it. We (Linux Journal) want to "talk" all about this.
Phil Hughes, Linux Journal
Hmmm. I haven't seen what, if any, patent has been granted on the CueCat reader (of which I have two, handed to me by RadioShack clerks without any sign-this-license, and NO hardware license or references thereto anywhere in the package or the transaction process).
However, it seems to me there's nothing new or novel about a pass-through PS/2 kbd interface barcode reader, NOR anything patent-worthy about their encoding scheme (it's damn' well obvious to US practitioners of the Art; see how fast it was reverse-engineered for compatibility purposes); if they are trying to patent a "device implementing said algorithm", then an existing PS/2 pass-through barcode reader would invalidate any hardware portion of said patent.
They may well be able to patent their business model, but the reader? Not likely.
The prior-art monster hits your patent armor -- your armor disappears!
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
'Cause:
1) The decoding info and independent software is already out there, and neither genie is going back in that bottle; they will have to coexist with the free software that (admit it) only the technically savvy will use. John Q User will do the dumb-sheep thing as always and use their software.
2) Since the protocol cannot be protected, and their ability to restrict use of the reader is questionable at best (I seriously doubt that a click-through software EULA can restrict my use of the hardware), they may well have to live with competing services that understand the reader. Hard to imagine they can prevent ALL such uses, even if their business model is patented.
3) They WILL lose any suit attempting to suppress the above tools (though they might deter some by intimidation), so they cannot push TOO hard.
4)With the ill will they are generating, any encrypting device they replace the current CueCat with (an unlikely development due to internal compatibility and cost problems; obsoleting the current model would cost as much as the current campaign and yield $0 benefits) would promptly be reverse-engineered as well, so there's no net gain for them there either.
On the one hand, DCNV cannot effectively maintain that monopoly against Open Source drivers and outside lookup servers; on the other hand, they don't really need to try (remember John Q). On the gripping hand, their every effort to suppress alternatives gains them ill will among their most likely user group (techies!), and MAY garner them the attention of a bigger fish that could push THEM out (say, if Yahoo or Amazon offers an option on their site that lets a CueCat user do lookups without using the DCNV software).
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
No case from the store, just a plastic baggie. My guy didn't even ask for my address- can he get fired for that? I'm SURE it's a punishable offense there....
;j
Here's hoping that ColonCat really did have consumers' best interests at heart, and wasn't playing some Tom and Jerry jerkaround like it looks like they're doing. crap.
Maybe it'll be more useful in a few weeks? What does one use these things for? Maybe we didn't know we needed a personal CatScanner
From the corporate site:
"RadioShack operates 7,100 company-owned stores and dealer franchises nationwide. RadioShack serves more than one million customers each day. In fact, 94 percent of all Americans live or work within 5 minutes of a RadioShack store or dealer. "
Now *that's* an install base! With a little more exposure from the barcode-reading cat, it's about time that this Intellectual Property issue get a little better coverage in the mainstream media beyond the napster crap.
There's an idealogical war starting over control and distribution of information. You'll find me on the front lines.
My company uses tethered barcode scanners on a regular basis, in fact each of my in-process workstation have one connected. These puppies cost about $300 a pop, connect to PS/2 port and provide a pass-through for standard keyboard attachment to it. What's even better is that the piece of hardware will scan just about any barcode, decode it, and send it as if it were a keyboard input stream ...with a hit to the enter key at the end of the input string.
these have no driver requirements whatsoever
they work on every OS I've tested them on (NT, 9x, *nix/x86)
Why did this CueCat (yup, next is the CueDog right? or CueMouse?) require so much effort to just dump for free into the hands of the end user??? Call me crazy, but if I were going to hand something out for free, I wouldn't devote any time to serious development like a minor encryption scheme... I bet the next version of it is supposed to have an IP address per CueCat.
This kind of thing should be covered under Fair Use. Though I'll lay money (in the hands of EFF) that they'll continue blithely on their prosecution path and try to pull the DMCA down on the developer's head because it defeats a 'digital copy protection' scheme of some format.
If they're angry that they lost money on the development of the device, they have nobody to blame but their own developers and marketers. KIS - Keep It Simple.
If I get my hands on one of these things I do have a door that doesn't like to stay open, sounds like an adequate door stop. Will I get a Cease and Desist order too?
please
zerodvyd
Man! I'm getting so sick of seeing companies put cool technology out there, and then go apeshit when people like it enough to really dig in and play with it. In that sense, this reminds me of the DeCSS case; no one was trying to copy DVDs, they just thought the DVD player was cool and wanted to see how it worked. More complexity to that case, I know, but that seems to be all there is to the CueCat. What possible financial damage could flyingbuttmonkeys (an awesome name, btw) be doing to radio shack?
Since when? Canada's patent and copyright system falls into step with the US almost as fast as the government can bring it in. On top of our own stupid laws (like CDR taxes) and insanely high taxes.
Yeah, for the moment we don't have a DMCA. But you can bet the government's under pressure from the US and the same companies that got it passed down there, and they're working on one as we speak.
Why are you sending cease and desist letters about Linux software for the
:Cue:Cat from being used in Linux, you are attacking a
Cue Cat?
According to your site:
":CRQ software is the wave of the future... so don't delay, get yours
today."
Why would linux users be excluded from the wave of the future?
Also according to the www.crq.com website:
"Find a new world of content online now that ANYTHING can be Internet
Enhanced!"
ANYTHING does not include Linux?
By stopping the
large part of the market you hope to attract to the technology.
Linux users are by nature "early adopters". The CRQ and Cue Cat
technology cannot survive without early adopters. I assume you chose
Radio Shack as one of the original outfitters of Cue Cat because much of
their market can be considered technologically informed early adopters.
Now you need to either release Linux drivers for the Cue Cat or allow the
software that is available for Linux to continue being released.
Either way you choose, your encryption has already been reverse engineered. More software will be released with or without your consent.
Please don't follow the ways of DeCSS and turn this into a big ordeal.
Embrace the Linux community and the Linux community will reward you with
praise and adoption of the technology. Attack the Linux community and you
will be scorned and flamed all over the internet.
I asked the Radio Shack employee if they would work in Linux.
He said that they used some funky encryption thing so it won't just read in the standard UPC codes. He also said that he had seen a driver for it on freshmeat.
So obviously he didn't have me read any legalese before getting the reader.
You know, as stupid as this sounds, NSI actually tried to pull this about a year ago. Their main whois search page said nothing about it, but when you search fora domain name, the page that came back said that the information was their property and you could not include it in any other web page or parse the information for inclusion into any other web page and that by viewing this information you were legally bound to that condition. In other words by viewing this page, you are bound to something, written in the page at the bottom ;-) what a wonderful world we live in. I personally hope to see linux,windows,BeOS adn mac drivers linked here soon that will let me just plug in my :Cuecat and scan something and have the barcode number appear on my screen as if I had typed it. Then, I will get some use out of it by printing bar code labels and plastering them on everythign I own for inventory purposes.
I think....therefore I am
I reject your reality
Mr. Shack: You know, I can't afford to give these things away if people are going to find non-shopping-at-radio-shack
uses for them.
Mr. Cat: No problem. My engineer* assure me that the device can only be used with the custom radio shack software. It
would take an infinite number of hackers on an infinite number of keyboards until the heat death of the universe to reverse
engineer a driver for it.
Mr. Shack: That's a relief. If someone came up with another way to use it, I would have to sue CatCo. out of existence!
Mr. Cat (to self):Oh, sh!t, there is a driver on freshmeat already!
Mr. Cat (to his law firm): You guys are down one client if you can't get that driver erased from the internet!
What do we learn from this? Nothing. We already knew that suits don't understand technology.
*MCSE
Here's Pierre-Philippe Coupard's device driver, now all I need is the reader/decrypter... :-)
s /console/network/cuecat-0.0.5.tar.gz
n etwork/cuecat-0.0.5.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.tuniv.szczecin.pl/dsk4/Linuxberg/file
ftp://ftp.uakom.sk/pub/linuxberg/files/console/
I agree. Those things rock! I had to do some maint. programming on an app that used bar code scanners and I thought "wow, this will take a little bit, 'cause I'll have to learn this bar code API or whatever", then I looked through the program for a while and couldn't find anything! That's when I figured it out. What a great solution. You can use it with existing apps! This one scanned multiple items and we just programmed it to send a "tab" character after the scan. It would just jump through the form. Very cool.
---
DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
Make sure to send it back postage due too, since they seem to want it so bad make'em pay for it.
-------- This space intentionally left blank --------
This would apply if the manufacturer gave the refrigerator away for the price of shipping because they are counting on you spending more with them.
Hello little man. I will destroy you!
Radio Shack is one of the last companies I would expect to see this from. They were the hardware hobbiest's friend for many many years and I have built a lot of small projects and prototypes using their parts. Used to be, stuff came with schematics in the manuals. They were open with everything. Even sold the Color Computer ROM dissasembly books in some stores.
Now their hardware selection is almost nothing and they are tolerating this harassment of people for figuring out how use to hardware they give away. What is the world coming to?
(If Radio Shack said stop the harassement, surely this dinky little company would have no real choice).
1) Sue them seeking a declaratory judgement that you're not infringing on anything.
2) Once you win that, sue them in civil court for harassment.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I received a CueCat free in the mail as a subscriber to Forbes Magazine. If you install the Windows software, you have to go online and agree to an EULA before the software will function. The interesting bits of the EULA are as follows:
- You agree not to reverse engineer the CueCat software or hardware
- You agree that the CueCat is property of Digital Convergence Inc. and may be reposessed at any time.
(I'm paraphrasing the above.)
Now, let's say you never agreed to the EULA. How can you be bound by the above restrictions? I received the CueCat free in the mail WITHOUT ASKING for it.
Digital Convergence is probably banking on the driver developers to fold under pressure. And they may do just that. But I'd love to see them fight it in court.
Alex
...isn't TOTALLY clueless:
/faq.html was not found on this server.
Not Found
The requested URL
Apache/1.3.12 Server at www.digitalconvergence.com Port 80
(my bold)
-----
What's so scary about this post is not necesarily the tone, but the implication that to have free software it must be mirrored outside the US to avoid prosecution from big Corporations (or Small ones for that matter). It's like software exiles. The Dali Lama, DeCSS - two situations but remakably similar just the same.
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." Sun Tzu
To whom it may concern,
I have recently become aware of legal threats being made against Michael Rothwell by the law firm of Kenyon and Kenyon, representing Digital Convergence, makers of the :CueCat bar code scanner available at Radio Shack outlets. As Mr. Rothwell explains on his web page,
http://www.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/useofthingsyouown isnowillegal/
Kenyon & Kenyon has accused him of intellectual property infringement over his distribution of software for the Linux operating system that would interpret the output of a :CueCat scanner in the same manner as the currently (and freely) available software for Windows. This attitude is both misguided, in that the net effect of Mr. Rothwell's work would be increased usage of :CueCat scanners by people who would otherwise by unable to use it, as well as dangerous, in that it stands against the principles of reverse engineering which are a cornerstone of scientific advancement.
I am greatly distressed by the actions taken by Kenyon and Kenyon/Digital Convergence. I would appreciate a statement from Digital Convergence clarifying and explaining your position on the issue.
Thank you for your time,
ardran@hotmail.com
I would like to know what would happen if this code (and others which the US courts have seen fit to ban) is placed on a web site outside the US. US lawyers can send me as many cease and desist letters as they please, I live in Holland.
What I would like to see is an article or interview on how Intellectual Property law is handled across national boundaries. If something is illegal in the US, can we just post the information in Holland, or Thailand, or China, or Hong Kong, or Australia, etc? It seems to me that many of the problems the Open Source community is facing with respect to Copyright, IP, etc, could be resolved by placing the information outside of the jurisdiction of the complaining authority.
Can anyone say data haven?
One of the things which annoys me most about Slashdot is that everyone assumes that the world consists of a) The United States of America b) Canada c) Some other places. Obviously, the US plays a leading role in the software industry, and Slashdot is based in the US. But honestly, go look at a map of the world, you'll find there are actually other countries as well, some of them with their own capital cities and everything! Some of them even have their own legal systems!
David
Hello:
Thanks for the email. However, the company that filed the order is Digital Convergence, not RadioShack.
RadioShack is not involved in the software development for the Cue Cat. There are plans for a McIntosh version of the software to be made available by Digital Convergence, but your questions and comments regarding the software issues should be directed to Digital Convergence. They may be reached via the following site:
http://www.digitalconvergence.com/contact/index.ht ml
Regards,
Chuck McConvey Customer Care Center
The letter seems to indicate a misunderstanding of the issue on Radio Shack's part. They seem to believe the main concern is that a Linux version of the cue cat software is not available, when the real issue is that of a company using lawyers to extinguish our right to reverse engineer.
Radio Shack doesn't seem to realize that by supporting Digital Convergence, they are supporting this behavior. I will continue my boycott until they act otherwise.
Scumbags!
"Oh gee, someone is not using the thing we gave away to spend money!!!! The damn commie bastards!! Sue, Sue!!!!!"
The current Slashdot moderation system is made by gay communists!
Is it just me, or did they just alienate a large group of people who would actually use their product? Shouldn't the fact that the programmer worked in support for their server be a good thing? That's the intent isn't, basically selling "advertising space" on their servers, so if I'm reading my issue of Linux Journal and see a product I want more info on, I can scar the barcode in the ad and my computer will take me to more info.
I wish they put some thought into it first. Like, hey...we just got support in a new operating system, and we didn't have to pay to develop the drivers or anything. Wow, neat!
What they're actually seeing is: Oh no! Now someone can use our product for something other than we intended for.
Well, nobody got a cease and desist order for Furby Autopsy, or various Tickle Me Elmo and Barney mutliations. Maybe Matel should have come after me for hanging my action figures infront of a space heater. I tell you, those He-Man action figures looked really cool while they melted!
BMW doesn't care when James Bond drives his brand new car off the top level of a parking ramp. Boeing doesn't complain when yet another disaster movie shows a 747 crashing down. You think that would hurt the pockets more than someone writing a driver for a simple bar-code scanner...
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
If I cannot get it to work on my system (meaning under Linux) then it has absolutely no utility: for me, for the Digital Convergence folks (the people who seem to have come up with the concept) or for Tandy (who built it).
It's too bad, really... I hope people like this get a clue someday. Is it their intention that *only* Windows users use their product? Or (more likely) They want *only their software* handling the transactions so they can limit people's use of the device to accessing the paid "CueCat enabled advertisements?"
hmmmm ok I can see EULAs for software, its a standard insudtry practice, and there is even law now that makes shrink wrap licences semi-legitimate for scopyrighted works.
However...this is hardware. A Physical device. It is not a copyrighted work. So wouldn't any such type of licence legally require them to go through some measure of proper contract procedure?
Do you have to sign anything to get one of these readers? If they don't make it CLEAR ahead of time, then its their own fault for being stupid.
Personally though, I have to agree, this idea of moving on to a future where corperations own everything and we just licence it, gives me extreme nausea.
I guess its their world, we are just living in it.
-Steve
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
This is one of a whole pile of data convergence applications now appearing. HP have Cooltown, a somewhat similar (although much broader) concept.
If you want to build your own version of CueCat, a look at the Handle Servers concept gives you most of the infrastructure almost straight out of the box.
When I went and got mine they just handed it to me and didn't ask me or tell me ANYTHING
Free Mac Mini
That's what I'd call a paradox (unless you have some kind of 'x-ray-cdrom-reading vision' or something).
--
--
Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!
FWIW, they didn't take my name or scan anything in.
I just asked them if they were giving away free scanners and they said, "Sure, I'll get you one."
Before I knew it they put the scanner and the catalog in a bag and I was on my way.
That which does not kill me only makes me whinier
I think we should have a bounty set up for anyone providing proof that these guys know they are wrong, but are using the courts as a business tactic.
For that matter is there anything actually criminally illegal about that, or would it just require yet another civil suit going the other way?
t
I guess their business plan was missing a few "Risk Factors"...
and the inability to own land.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
Wow, these guys never get tired of trying to maintain the status quo...
I remember someone telling me about how easy it was to rip people off when buying the first electronic goods in North America (way back!). Basically, the public's knowledge level was very low. No-one knew how well these things SHOULD work so they just accepted the low level of usability and the fact that they broke easily.
A few years go by and suddenly people are tinkering and learning about the internals of thier devices (not everyone but a few). Electronic hobbyist magazines became popular and suddenly the quality of manufactured goods started increasing to meet consumer demand. There wasn't much of a monopoly back then (maybe GE? I don't know) so the market really was driven by consumer choice.
As an aside, the same thing seems to be happening in operating systems and software, etc, today...
Anyway, I think it is obvious that when people know how things work they want them to work better, or more efficiently, or they want to change them. Companies normally HATE that! One reason they might is because there may be plans to incorporate "direct buying" into printed material soon (or maybe just consumer tracking) by printing codes in catalogs that are subtly different for different geographic areas or whatever. I don't know, I am just speculating....
It's easy to see how a couple of intelligent, inquisitive people could ruin any chance for these companies to pull things like that on the sly. Thanks guys, we owe you one!
--8<--
--8<--
Right. Have you ever been to the southern states?
- El riesgo siempre vive - Private J. Vasquez
This post is to inform you that you are violating the intellectual property rights of Cease and Desist, LLC. We demand that you take it back! or we will prosecute all individuals who view this contraband information to the fullest extent of the law and then some.
>Really, what is the world coming to (or at
>least the US)? I feel that there's going to
>have to be a revolution before too long, ya
>know? Kill all the stupid people!
If that were to happen we'd all be the first one up against the wall.
Now I am annoyed.
... "wait to borrow a DVD ? sure, just scan it ;)"
I nearly finished a CPAN module for this device, it should be called "Device::CueCat", and does work by doing the extentded Base 64 xor 67 algorithm that a friend and I reverse engineered from the output of the device. I was adding a ibn/ib5 check code to it (because it not always reliable) as well as a small documentation (the code itself was 1K big), but now I am going to wait to see where this goes.
Still, I am gonna use the software for my DVD list
-- Martial MICHEL
No signing anything! Picked up four of them the other day and actually had to remind the clerk to give us 'catalogs'! He just handed them over and asked for our addy's like Radio Shack always does.
No mention at all of it's use being ONLY for some specific purpose... The guy actually had to hunt up the 4th catalog, ending up giving us the one off their own counter to satisfy OUR REQUEST one for each Cat.
ah! the internet!! we may still screw up the world but NEVER again will we be able to claim IGNORANCE
Okey, so they really want to declare war over people writing linux drivers, huh? Well, this is going to be a reasonabley small number anyways, so their market research isn't going to be lost from us Linux users. It the M$ users that, is where they are going to get the majority of their information from for market research. Lets write some M$ drivers and distribute these on the net. Like at shareware.com, or where ever windows users get their software from.
Also, another fun little thing to do is set up something to repeatedly scan garbage items, such as, say M$ software boxes. And just have it scan them for hours on end, screw with their data. Or scan silly things.
Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
hmmm ... ( OT alert ) ...
How can H2O-based liquid at 190F cause 3rd degree burns ?
Isn't a 3rd degree burn defined as charred meat ?
I could see blisters ( 2nd degree burns ), but charred
meat from coffee in the crotch seems a bit of a stretch.
just wondering.
-- kjh
In eactly the same fashion, Radioshack gives you a barcode scanner and they expect you to use it on their catalogues and their catalogues only. Nevermind that it could be used elsewhere. You should stop doing it now, and get ANOTHER barcode scanner for that. If cuecat was so unimaginative as to think that are as unimaginative as they are, trying to make a lame business out of these kind of artificial restrictions, they should find something else to do - really.
I've just this day set up a dumb Wyse-50 with a barcode scanning wand to serial login to my dev (RH) box. I work at a Legal Deposit Library and we're paying a company to come and bin some 40 of these. They cost a few *thousand* pounds each back in the 80s (customised character set/language support) and being somewhat of a scavanger, I'm playing with one to see if it's worth saving them. It reads barcodes happily and simply dumps the numerical codes to stdin - I'm going to take one home and link it up to an MP3 jukebox & db so that I can scan barcodes from my ripped CDs and trigger the server to play the album.
After sucking on some FreshMeat(TM)
I found this link. Dont know how long it will be around Mirror soon, mirror often!. It doesn't look as cool a nice C daemon but I'm you perl coders will get a chubby over it.
or, "What would Victor Borge do?" regarding that stupid colon. Wasn't he the one who had a set of sound effects for punctuation? If my recollection of his readings on Sesame Street serves me, it would be pronounced something like "ptttt!! ptttt!! cue cat".
--
Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
Below is an e-mail I just sent the firm that distributes CueCat. Let's not flame these guys. It was probably a clueless order from someone who didn't understand what's going on. Once they understand we just want to use the thing without using Windows, and they realize they might be able to build a large and enthused user base they'll probably relent.
To Whom it may concern,
I just picked up a CueCat at Radio Shack and I was wondering if Digital:Convergence intends to release Linux drivers for the device. I know there is a third party program that emulates the functionality of your Windows software, but I've also heard you sent the developer a cease and desist order.
My primary OS at home is Linux (Mandrake 7.0 to be exact) and I'm afraid the device isn't much use to me without a Linux driver. Do you plan to release your own Linux software or work with the existing Linux port to produce an "authorized" version? Given the speed and ease with which a port was developed, I don't see any reason for you to not release a Linux version of the software, unless there is some contractual or financial pressure to support only specific Operating Systems.
On a separate note, I am the MIS Director of Educational Training Systems Inc. and I'm interested in adding our courseware to your database. I would like to be able to add the appropriate CueCat bar codes to the books themselves so people could find information on them more easily. Additionally, our sales department is interested in using CueCat in conjunction with bulk mailings to potential clients. Specifically, they would like to put a CueCat barcode on the mailings so clients could just scan it in and be taken directly to the appropriate order form or information page on our web site.
We have several other ideas for integrating your technology into our advertising and customer service areas, and I would like to discuss what costs and procedures are involved in using your technology.
Matthew Miller
MIS Director, Educational Training Systems, Inc.
Matthew Miller,
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Let's say I want to buy the parts to build a bar code scanner and hook it up to my computer. What should I do? Where do I start? Where online are there instructions? What software do I use? Can I get it to look up the ISBN of a book on Amazon?
Matthew Miller,
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
A better idea might be to file a class-action suit against them for invasion of privacy WRT their spying software. Why are we always trying to defend against the corporations when we haven't really tried playing their game? I think everyone should just sue them instead for profiting off of information that we did not knowingly and voluntarily offer.
First off, as I just wrote in a reply to another message, why is it that nobody has started class-action lawsuits against "information-gathering" companies for invasion of privacy? I think end-users and other people reverse-engineering hardware/software need to start playing the game the way the corporations do: proactively. Why spend tons of money on defending against these clowns when we should be suing them for the various things that corporations always seem to do: defamation of character, invasion of privacy, misuse of information that isn't explicitely given by the end-user, etc. I say, rather than only defending against them, countersue.
As always, IANAL, but I would be happy to ask a corporate law attorney about this type of situation (and probably will...I know a few). Coming from a background in the medical field as well, I know that, if a hospital were misusing your information, you'd be climbing all over them with lawyers. For instance, a patient who's been diagnosed with HIV or AIDS has privacy rights that extend so far that the doctor cannot even tell your spouse or blood relatives about your condition without explicit consent (which is often on paper and extremely rarely verbally given). After all, explicit and informed consent must be given to any member of the medical profession before any kind of release of information is legally allowed. Why aren't similar laws enacted that enable the same type of consent practices and protections in the technology fields? I personally don't mind if Digital Convergence gathers information about me and my scanning habits if I knowingly consent to this, but I do mind if they sell that information without my consent to a third party. A medical correlation would be me gathering patient info and selling disease and injury statistics from that info WITH patient names to a third party (which is just plain illegal).
As I see stories quite often involving privacy and personal property, I'm beginning to wonder just what in my house is actually legally owned by me (which is sad). I think it's time that we "draw the line" and establish that the individual has rights as well and that idle threats and suits by corporations shouldn't be tolerated by the common person. I'm quite aware of the fact that many /. readers are from outside of the USA and, if the companies want to start trying to file suit against you (see DeCSS case), then you need to study the laws of your respective countries and try to establish legal precendent in this arena as well (since it's been established that you're NOT immune from prosecution or attempted prosecution at this point). For the USA folks, write your congressmen and call your lawyers. Let them know that your privacy is being threatened and that corprations are using strong-armed tactics against the individual in order to protect their profit streams, no matter how poorly thought-out their business model is. Granted, we may not get far, but if even one person wins a case against a corporation in a situation like this, it will establish a legal precendent that can be used and referred to in later cases.
So how is this different than writing a driver for any other piece of hardware? Couldn't any encoding scheme be construed as IP by some fat lawyer?
Of course, if someone wanted to beat them at their own game, wouldn't it be trivial to jam their database full of bogus profiles for a given serial number? These profiles could just be white noise (randomly selected bar codes from a massive database), or they could be carefully crafted so you get junk mail from the UFO society, Frederick's, or whoever. Choose your own identity! A simple privacy reclamation web app could ask for your cat serial number, and then just submit a ton of HTTP queries to big brother. Perhaps at randomly distributed times. Perhaps with random IP sources. A more devious hacker might do this for a wide range of serial numbers, but reclaiming your own privacy (as if you were dumb enough to give it to them anyway) by diluting their database certainly seems justified.
Also, they apparently mail these things out unsolicited. In the U.S., that makes them a gift, according to Federal law. (39 U.S.C. 3009) The recipient has no obligations regarding unsolicited merchandise. The sender can't even ask for it back.
*cough* *cough* That is plain not nice.
I have lived in Georgia all my life and uhm anyways its not true, I hate stereotypes.
1. Buy a new dual-processor alpha.
2. Find a high-bandwidth connection.
3. Install the oldest version of slackware you can find.
4. Don't change the default install.
5. Name the machine unhackable.flyingbuttmonkeys.com.
6. Put a directory under root's home directory called private.
7. In this directory put the cuecat software in a file called intellectual_property.tar.gz
8. Make it mode 0.
9. IRC to any IRC server that will let you as root. I suggest #warez.
10. Wait for the inevitable.
Codemasters sold nintendo and sega games carts...got sued by both of `em, but (u.k.) courts told them to f**k off. You can do what you want with other peoples hardware, once you`ve bought it.
Use a different brand of scanner, like, say, the Symbol Technologies LS1004-I100 .. which will read just about any barcode format I have thrown at it, including Code-39, I-2-5, Code-128, UPC-A, UPC-B, .. well, just about anything but Plessey and USPS.
With some minor changes to the drivers, you can duplicate the whole hack without using anything supplied from CueCat, thus slamming the door to any conceivable IP claim they might make. Ridiculous and unnecessary, perhaps, but even if they are clueless enough to think that people can't FIGURE OUT how their system works, this will at least convince the lawyers that they don't have even a shred of a case. Unless they're trying to imply that the whole concept of scanning a book and linking to an online catalog is their IP, in which case, well, they're going to lose.
73 de N5VB (ex-KD5BIV) AR SK
73 de N5VB (ex-KD5BIV) AR SK
So its about money. They chose a poor business model. Instead of opening the source and thereby having a much, MUCH, larger market share from which to support (for a fee) they chose to ride the ever shrinking Bill wave in hopes that some of his billions might rub off onto them.
They should countersue Radio Shack and DC for violation of 1st ammendment rights. What is bothersome to me is that the letter in each case was so vague - violated "The intellectual property". That has to be a patent, copyright, trade secret or something. You can't enforce a deed to property that doesn't state where the boundaries of that property is. I can see a trademark problem since cuecat and a few other things were used unacknowledged. But if the sites (like lineo) are going to give in this quickly, what about when they get a letter "your entire site violates something we aren't going to clarify - please take it down immediately"?
They can have the CueCat reader back (perhaps minus a few screws) - if they send me a prepaid shipping container.
(They are probably tracking everyone who uses the software. Anyone for integrating hustler magazine UPC barcodes into kiddie comics?).
What does Radio Shack have to say about this?
I get a blank page.
Their HTML is bad so Netscape doesn't show anything. Lynx works.
And using their search on cuecat, nothing shows up.
Wired should recall CueCat (assuming they haven't already), or get a "the scanner is yours" license, or refund the cover price.
From that wired article:
In addition, Tandy has invested in us. Other companies that have made investments in us include Young & Rubicam, Inc., Belo Corp., The Coca-Cola Company, The E.W. Scripps Company and Spielberg/Katz Associates, LLC.
And I used to enjoy Coke...
1) Obtain and "misuse" as many cuecat's as possible - Do not sign anything at RS when you pick it up, and certainly don't open that useless software with the EULA on it. Suggested uses for CueCat are: generic barcode reader, cat toy, paperweight, etc. Anything *except* uses which aid digital convergence's business model.
2) Tell people what you are doing and why... it doesn't help unless they can see what their silly letter has brought upon them. Tell forbes, digital convergence, radioshack, etc.
How many cuecat's do YOU have?
Its no big secret, remember that school that had the kids social security numbers in a barcode? Well they learned how to read it.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
You didn't purchase this scanner. If you read the fine print you are merely borrowing it and they can recall it any time. It seems fair since you are getting something for free.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
An even more amusing excercise would be to not print out the list as a big long bar code. Instead, find a series of products whose UPC symbols would, when concatenated, give you the code. It may be necessary to create a simple format conversion system to accomodate the characteristics of the UPC system. Then you can convert DeCSS into a shopping list.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
. . . you can't decide if you should run like hell, or stick around and see what happens.
Of course, I'm a heartless monster.
I have no
Why not just photocopy the barcode onto sticky labels?
I believe in that case there was actually some code copied as well (verification code mainly). Not a substantial part was copied though.
Actually, you probably can licence physical property by lending it. Giving something away, then telling people that it can't be used for certain purposes is not the way to do it of course. (They could possibly demand the return of their property)
Can I have one?
For the record, you don't need a signature for a contract. It certainly helps having it all written down, but a verbal contract is still legally binding. Opening packaging would probably not be accepted as acceptance. Clicking on "I agree" might or might not but has never been tested, but right of first sale might apply. But maybe not in this case if it was given to you. Of course, contracts start to look a bit suspicious if they have clauses that are not to do with the item in question.
I was about to laugh, as I was expecting this... but there's no reason for it. What do they lose if people make practical use of it? It's not like they're losing profits. They should have expected this anyhow. Stupid marketroids.
---
[ approaching AI ]
So now that the CueCat sits useless on your desk, try putting it behind one of those unfinished caffeine cocktails.. creates a nice radioactive effect with the lights out.
So where do I get a tee-shirt with the code ???:)
I don't think that stopping people is legal. My experiences can be found here: CueCat Experiences
There are pictures of the product in the packaging it came in, and the license agreement.
My experiences with the CueCat can be found here: CueCat Experiences
There are pictures of the product in the packaging it came in, and the license agreement.
RadioShack is not the problem at all. They just hand them out to people. You can read about my experiences with the CueCat HERE
Sorry about the big pictures, I didnt have time to thumbnail them.
Dammit! My girlfriend just went home a few days ago! Damn these long-distance relationships. I'll bet dollars to donuts I could have gotten her to do that, too, and let me do a little digital imaging at the same time. As long as I didn't show her face or anything, I'll bet she would have let me post the images to alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.cuecat, too. She's swell like that.
Government-provided coding licenses you say? There has been some serious talk from time to time about mandatory licenses for programmers. Have no license/lost your license and program - go to jail. Do something "annoying" (i.e. that hurts someone with power) and lose your license.
Now it is illegal for you to work in your field. Welcome to the world of fast food order taker.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
If someone mails you something, unsolicited (even in error) its yours. Those that got them in the mail without asking for one, own the hardware. Federal law says the "hardware license" part of the "contract" is void.
(this got enacted after places started sending people unsolicited "merchandise", followed by a bill. Its very clear now, you mail it to someone without their asking for it, they own it)
I can't comment on the "loan" status for those that asked for one at ratshack.
Organizer:New England Rubbish Deconstruction Society;The NERDS,first US team in the UK Scrapheap Challenge/Junkyard Wars
I'm sure the person that typed up that cease and desist letter kept a straight face.
I can see that conversation:
Law firm: So you want to sue flying butt monkeys?
DC: Yup.
Law firm: Riiiight...
But anyhow, this is just ridiculous, it's a physical product that sends output like a keyboard, basically, it is a keyboard. We can do anything we want to with it. We can destroy it, we can pee on it, we can set it on fire, we can strap gi joes and 74 bottle rockets to it and boldy send it where no cat-shaped bar code reader has gone before. We paid for it (granted it cost $0), it's ours.
The nerve of this company is absolutely absurd. Tonight, I'm going to write as many useless (maybe even useful) programs that use the scanner as I can just to piss them off.
Really, what is the world coming to (or at least the US)? I feel that there's going to have to be a revolution before too long, ya know? Kill all the stupid people!
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
Where we've seen alot of contention between open-source guys and corporations is where the corporations "give away" hardware in order to get you to run their software.
The 'net workstation whose software is hard-coded to use their Internet services, or the video game console given away so you have to buy their game cartridges.
The value of that hardware is NOT THE HARDWARE - it's the fact that it works only with their service - making you buy the service to use this hardware - and that's where the corporation gets their return.
Break this line, and you'll see plenty of cease-and-desist letters!
More examples? Buy an Ink-Jet printer for $50, only to buy cartridges for $28. Buy a full-fledged digital camera for $250, only to pay $130 for another memory cartridge. Try to buy a consumer electronics device from Montgomery Wards without an "extended service contract" - they'll almost run you out of the store. (at least here)
It's a most common ploy - get the consumer "in the door" by giving away the core for free or very cheap, then make the money on the periphery.
In this example, the hits to the web-page/advertising dollars from their software are the periphery the company is planning on profiting from.
They could (and quite rightly, tho they don't know how to say it) consider the hardware as "IP", as the hardware is linked to THEIR software.
So what REALLY constitutes "IP"?
-Ben
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Per the licensing agreement on the site (http://www.digitalconvergence.com/ula.html or http://www.crq.com/legal.html) you agree to follow thier license if you do any of the following :
/. has to send me $100 USD whenever they post here.
/., when can I expect your money order?
And per the licensing agreement on _MY_ site (the URL of which I'm not going to send you), everybody on
Since you've posted on
If you're not using their (Digital Convergence) Windows software, and their servers, you're not giving them valuable demographic data. Thus nothing to sell to advertizers to cover the cost of the hardware. This is closer to the IOpener situation than DeCSS.
The letter is primarily designed to intimidate - it's a pretty cheap opening shot. But you can bet they'll follow up with bigger guns if the software stays available.
A couple of years ago, I'd say they didn't have a chance of winning in court. But after the DeCSS debacle, I bet they could. Especially if they moved the case to a certain judge's venue...
I just can't stopp luaghing at the the thought of some stuffy lawyer dictating the phrase flyingbuttmonkeys half a dozen times... And imagine the water cooler chat too: "Hey Bill, what are we doing abou the flyingbuttmonkey issue?" "Well Biff, I'm sure not gonna sit on this flyingbuttmonkey thing any longer" "Hey Sue, did you get that flyingbuttmonkey thing out for me?"
hahahahaha...
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
Let me guess ....
They soon will be getting a patent on "A Method for Accessing Electronic Content" or some sort of other nonsense.
-Neil Johnson
This post is to inform you that you are violating the intellectual property rights of This Post, inc. We will prosecute all individuals who view this information to the fullest legal extent.
:)
Luke
Now this is just my own guess, but I've noticed many people here asking "why do they care when they're not making a profit anyway?". Here's my theory:
:/
Their software gives their servers the id of both the barcode you scanned, AND the id of your original cuecat. How hard is it to set the server up to remember all these, track people's scanning habbits, even know roughly where you live based on the id their software sends them? Not hard at all! I bet they're collecting massive demographic information about every one of their users, and this linux software is screwing it up for them.
The linux drivers don't send the server your cuecat id, because I assume the author was in the its-none-of-their-damn-business mindset.
Now the product they spent money to give away to the public is no longer collecting all the information they want, which was the whole purpose of giving it away in the first place.
Just my opinion anyway, but I suggest you don't use their software if at all possible, if you're concerned about privacy. Hell, it probably also gives em a good look at the contents of your drive...who knows
--
--
grep "xercist"
This is just a symptom, of course, of the Internet lowering standards for everyone! It's exteremely hard to find decent computer folk these days. Kids with "CS" degrees (or dropout dotcom wannabes) can cut and paste Java, JavaScript, and HTML, but have no Idea how do develop robust systems. -- ib
--- Speaking only for myself,
Since you didn't bother to follow the provided link regarding the lawsuit, here it is again.
As it states, the woman who suffered the burns was not driving the car, her grandson was. In fact, the car was not even moving; the grandson had stopped the car so that she could remove the lid from the cup.
Facts are wonderful things. You should check them out.
TheFrood
If you say "I'll probably get modded down for this..." then I will mod you down.
I didn't install their software; I didn't even open the CD envelope. Does that mean I can post the software safely?
it turns out that I used to work for the CEO of digital convergance at an ISP I used to work at, and helped out on his show Net Talk live.. I threw him an email to ask some questions about the actions mentioned here. I'll keep you all posted
Why don't we set up a legal defense fund for this. Donate as much or as little as you want. IANAL but someone is going to have to put a end to this madness. Many of us in this business are making very good livings because this kind of stuff was legal for so long. I think it is time for us as both people and companies to pick a case and fight it hard.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
So there I was. Naked. In a refrigerator. With a potroast on my knees. Smokin a cigar. That's when it got REALLY weird.
Well we're obviously not paying as much heed to individual rights anymore compared to the business profit. Human rights or stocks... looks like human rights are losing.
So what's this have to do with anything? Obviously, as demonstrated by the RIAA, the MPAA and various other conglomerates and companies, the real power of this country is in business, not government.
Sure, government allots the tax dollars and makes the end decisions, but the truth is he who has more money always wins in court. Corporations will always have more money than an individual and therefore will always win in trial. These trials help establish new laws and ultimately determine what governs us. We're not governed by the Constitution anymore and its as plain as day.
So what is this new form of goverment? Its not a democracy and its not communism. Its capitalism pushed to the extreme: Corporatism.
-- Anubis
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless." - Tao of Programming
One to be filed in the round file, methinks. A cease-and-desist letter worth paying attention to would have said exactly what IP was being infirnged (clue: none is) and used the words "cease", "desist" and "remove". This is just something threatening dire consequences in unspecific terms.
Charitably, one might assume that they are putting a marker down; they don't know whether they might have a problem with flying butt monkeys, but they do know that if they ever need to prosecute in future, they'd better not be found in proof that they knew about this software for a while, but did nothing about it.
Irritating, perhaps, but part of the price we have to pay for a common-law based system. The alternative would be for there to be government-provided coding licenses and prior restraints of what code you can write.
-- the most controversial site on the Web
Hellooooo Woooorld!!!!
:CueCat Kit.!
:CRQ software and :CueCat will arrive shortly. :CueCat Kit also includes a free Convergence Cable so your TV
can talk to your computer, a $7.95 value, free, for ordering online.
;-)
/. for the preview-button} And that Digitally Converged thingy sounds like there is a bucketload of Bytes streaming through their Intestines and refusing to pASS the gate. /.-addiction ;-)
I am living in the Netherlands (as in: that small country in Europe between Germany and the United Kingdom (a.k.a. Britain a.k.a. England)).
I ordered the KutKat [play on words here] online and they do not state on their website and orderform that the product is not to go abroad.
Their conformation recieved by e-mail:
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:45:20 -0700
X-Priority: 1
X-MSMail-Priority: High
Importance: High
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2000 07:45:20.0468 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B395140:01C00E68]
Thank you for ordering the
Your free
You'll only be charged shipping and handling as indicated below.
Your
Thanks again for becoming Digitally Converged.
Your life online is about to change forever!
Quantity Ordered: 1 Shipping and Handling: $9.95 (Normal Shipping)
Now, as I ordered by way of creditcard I presume they will try to cash my order or at least confirm the validity of my creditcard, what should I do?
Call the creditcard company to block their reciept {sp?}
or what?
By the by; I still have not recieved the KutKat [word-joke again] and now do not expect it at all, or are they that simple-minded that the take the addition of "-The Netherlands" after the city fo granted and mail it anyway?
I'll submit updates as they become available and y'all be the secong to know (because I will be the first
{thank
My life online has been changed forever because I am now suffering from a
I wonder what other uses the KutKat has; hmmmm... let's call it an "Adult Toy"(TM) as I fear graphic descriptions are frowned upon here...
Let's say I'd like to use the Convergence Cable to string them up so the soles of their shoes can really be free from the dirt of the Earth. Gives a whole new meaning to "booting" does it not?
Greetings and Sympathy from a {still} Free country on the other continent.
{squawk} Pollie wants a Cookie
---
Free ?! Does that mean I can't get a Discount ?!
This message was
When you pick up one of these scanners do you have to fill out a form or sign anything stating that you intend to - or must - use this scanner only for their special barcode catalogs?
No form but you do have to put up with the annoying Radio Shack way of verifying your address and contact information. Hell, the guy at the shop I went to was nice enough to ask me if wanted the catalog or not. <:
~~ What's stopping you?
Ok, So I'm now licsensing the homework I've written. Any professor that reads my homework is now legally bound to give me an "A" in all classes that he has any control over. Failure to do so will result in prosecution.
Now, who do I sue?
I demand a million helicopters and a DOLLAR!
The Slashdot consensus (worthless in a court of law, I know) is that Digital Convergence doesn't have a leg to stand on. Given that, I'm wondering why you decided to take down the code. Did you talk to a lawyer first? Or does the whole mess just seem too expensive to fight?
I'm not passing judgement on your situation. I don't know your circumstances, so that would be foolish. But it seems to me that the reason why our rights are so often eroded is that we let them be eroded by not defending them vigorously. Here, these lawyers wanted the code taken down and their flimsy letter accomplished it. If they really have no legal leg to stand on (and IANAL, so I don't know), they won with threat and bluster what they couldn't win in court. By letting them get away with it this time, they will be encouraged to pull more of these stunts in the future and we will all be poorer and less free because of it. We need to find ways to (safely) stand up to empty threats and bluster in the future.
The real issue is this: it's obviously illegal to take something someone else did and make money off it. What these people want to do (DVD, etc) is make it so it's illegal to do anything that CUTS INTO THEIR PROFITS. So then it follows that they can make it illegal to be a competitor! Everyone wants a monopoly now.
Don't post on slashdot. Get back to work.
Pretty soon it will be illegal to say to your friend "Dude, 'Gladiator' sucked, don't go see it." The movie studio will sue you for cutting into their profits.
Don't post on slashdot. Get back to work.
By reading this post you agree to give me $100. Ha! Tricked you! Here's my address, check or money order please...
Don't post on slashdot. Get back to work.
The bottom line on this is as follows:
The license agreement for this thing is one of these agreements that says as soon as you use the thing, you agree to the terms of the agreement. It says that they are loaning you the reader, not giving it to you. That might be okay, if they told you ahead of time what you were agreeing to. But they didn't.
It follows that I could:
1. write up an agreement that said "by wearing this baseball cap, you agree to give me $100".
2. casually go up to my friend and say, "hey, I've got this old Mets cap, you want it?"
3. Wait until I see him wearing it one day and then show him the agreement and say, "Dude, you owe me $100! Pay up!"
This kind of bullshit has got to stop.
Don't post on slashdot. Get back to work.
Look at the names on the letterhead. No Kenyons. So . . . Dead lawyers will be suing flying butt monkeys.
I haven't gotten around to radio shack yet to pick up one of the free barcode readers there, but maybe someone who has can answer this.
When you pick up one of these scanners do you have to fill out a form or sign anything stating that you intend to - or must - use this scanner only for their special barcode catalogs? IANAL, but it seems to me if they haven't, even if the premise of the whole giveaway is to use the scanner with the specified catalog, you'd be fine - for all you knew it was a promotion to was just to get you to go to a new store, like giving away really oddly shapped baloons.
Ad in classifieds: Pandora's Box (no box) $5
If you're saying that the consititution is what makes us not a democracy, your wrong. What you are refering to as Democracy is actually Pure Democracy (such as what the Athenians had something like). However, when you say Democracy all by itself that is simply the idea of the power coming from the people. It doesn't have to be directly.
However, America is not a Consititutional Republic in reality because power comes from the upper class (as they have more say in elections with campaign controbutions), thus making it a Plutocracy. So, in a Plutocracy it is only natural that laws such as the DMCA exist.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Perhaps they were thinking clearer than what would at first appear.
:-).
After all, they would have to be pretty moronic if they thought they could *stop* the distrobution of this software (and that way stop the products use *huh*). But, they are probably smart enough to realize that if they made a stink about it it would get that software distributed faster and make more people interested in the product to begin with.
Remember, there is no such thing as bad publicity. Of course, they were stupid enough to not realize that the entire slashdot crowd would get their panties in a bunch and avoid them like the plague
Bite my yammer.
(and, yes, in my email, I am actually using spellcheck. =^)
-legolas
i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...
i noticed. still, the tone of the message seemed to indicate that the poster was an ignorant hippy, and not a crafty troll. (speaking from experience with both ;^)
-legolas
i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...
As you can see at this page, entitled the actual facts of the mcdonalds coffee case, the coffee was quite overly hot. This is beyond the hot you expect coffee - it was served at between 180 and 190 F (most places serve it at about 140). This was enough to burn through her sweatpants and cause 3rd degree burns to 6% of her body, including some very tender spots. She required $20k in reconstructive plastic surgery. If the coffee was even at 155 F, she would have avoided serious injury. Initially, she asked McD's for just the money to cover the surgery, but when she refused and discovered over 700 claims from between 1980 and 1992, including cases of 3rd degree burns, she did the full-out lawsuit. Also, the jury found her 20% at fault, which is why she only got $160k of the $200k awarded to her. Since that time, the temperature of the coffee at that peticular McD's has been dropped to 158 F.
Just letting 'ya know the facts. =^)
-legolas
i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...
Notice it is called the ":Cat" and this translates into "Colon Cat." They certainly are anal...
Andrew Borntreger
Andrew Borntreger
Champion of cinematic disasters
Give 'em the reader back and tell them to go fuck themselves.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
http://www.cuecat.com/faq.html Has a link to their privacy policy. There they admit they collect 'demographic' data and makers of the decode program acknoledge that your 'id' number is sent and can be replaced witha generic code. They dont care about the scanner or the software. They property they are protecting is thier ability to track your internet usage.
...who just love this sort of stuff. I also have a feeler from a few editors.
I'm also preparing pitches to a number of editors, some computer journals, some business magazines, some national newspapers. The story needs to come out.
Download the code, specs, whatever as soon as they come out, then don't share with people you don't know. I know this is a little anti-community, but... it becomes increasingly difficult for the owners of the original product (CSS, CueCat) to persecute/prosecute because they don't know who has the code.
Disclaimer: I do not endorse or support illegal behavior. All behavior should be legal. ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!
This message written by a Pope.
main(){char I,l,O[]={'-',1-1,0,(1<<5)-1,0+'-',-10-1,-10,11-0,
This may not show up in the replies, but maybe it will. If anyone wants a copy of cuecat, I've got it on my ftp server, here
Lets all send a polite letter to DC's webmaster, asking him to forward it on to their legal and marketing departments explaining that this type of harassment is intolerable and you'll be removeing the windows software from your system and encouraging others to follow suit as a form of consumer boycott. 100,000 letters should be enough to convince them that their draconian policies might not be in their best interests.
Dear Sir:
It has come to our attention that you have reverse-engineered the clever encryption scheme used in the branding of our latest technological advance, properly called :CueCat, and posted the brand name in plaintext on your website.
We order you to cease and desist in your devilishly clever reverse-engineering and to post the product's name only in it's encrypted form.
Sincerely,
Digital Convergence
-
-
Give me liberty or give me something of equal or lesser value from your glossy 32-page catalog.
Have you seen the letter paper headers ?
I wonder if they renew it each time staff changes occur...
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
The cease and desist letter says they're protecting :Cue's "intellectual property". I fail to see how writing an independent program that simply makes use of the output of the :Cue scanner in any way infringes on the company's intellectual property.
Reverse engineering of file formats are the closest example and my understanding is that courts have rules that this is fine.
I don't see how they have a leg to stand on. Hack on...
It'll probably show up in the next Master Hackers Secrets CD or the like.
In the style of 2600 (okay, not the best example ATM) we could just mirror them all over the net until their FedEx budget dries up.
I wonder how this all works? How do they make money on the product--they're giving them away at the Rat Shack, right? If we understood this, perhaps we would understand their reluctance.
Sincerely,
Iaal T. Corporate, Esq.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
Of course, we also had The Block and Blaze Starr and all that, making the whole moral-Maryland thing a bit foolish, but that never stopped a state-funded group before.
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
If they do NOT print the EULA out, it is unenforceable. IIRC, all legal documents must be either on hardcopy, or immediately be printable when the user opens the package (e.g. the 'print' button on the EULA when you install stuff).
When I walked into my local Radio Shack, the guy didn't even know what a CueCat was. I had to say, "You know, the barcode reader?" He acknowledged and handed me the thing. He took my name and address (I still can't figure out why I didn't use fake info). He never said anything about a license to use it. He also never said, on the phone or in person, that it was on loan from DigitalConvergence.com. He said they were "giving" it to me, for free.
After opening the package I plugged the thing into my machine, and glanced at the card they give you. I've just now read the entire card, and it says nothing about a license agreement, or even a mandatory look at crq.com. It only says to go to crq.com to get a unique activation code.
Unfortunately, in screw-you lawyer style, the back of the CD jacket says, in tiny print on the bottom, "Opening of this software constitutes acceptance of our License terms contained herein. Copies can also be found at www.digitalconvergence.com/ula.html. [...]" Although I don't recall a EULA in the package, it does direct you to online information. It also doesn't say installation constitutes acceptance, only opening the software. And that happened when you eagerly ripped open the plastic containing the device.
Therefore, unfortunately, we are all bound by those license terms. I could imagine, if one took it all the way to the Supreme Court, one could claim that decoding the CueCat output is merely reinterpretation of public information (since the CueCat dumps its code into any text editor you choose, they aren't making an effort to conceal the code).
If mine gets recalled, though, I won't give it back. The reason? I paid for it. That's right: when I was at Radio Shack, and before I could even see a hint of a license agreement in the package (the message was obstructed by the informational booklet), I gave away my name and address (it's even printed on the receipt they gave me), which is valuable marketing information. So Radio Shack (and potentially DigitalConvergence.com) can send me shit I don't want, and I have nothing to show for it? I don't think so. I deserve compensation for giving up my privacy.
Maybe that's why I didn't use fake info.
I do not belong in the spam.redirect.de domain.
Even more scary - if you read the enclosure that's with the scanner. They encourage you to connect your TV audio out to your sound card input, and claim that their s/w will automatically cause your browser to track your tv viewing or some such. What if you just have a mic plugged in and the TV on? A quote - ":C.R.Q. (tm) software instantly links TV programming to your PC, and lets you get information on the web you didn't even know existed". I might suggest the following addition - " . . . and allows us to gather information that you don't even suspect we're collecting".
I just wanted to thank you all for your responses and support.
////\
Take care !
(@ @)
--------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------
Pierre-Philippe Coupard
Software Engineer, Lineo, Inc.
Email : pierre@lineo.com
Phone : (801) 426-5001 x 208
------------------------------------------
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
There's also Java code for reading CueCat output and cataloging it into a book collection at: http://freshmeat.net/projects/jqkat/homepage/ - Jeremy
"You agree to the terms and conditions of this license by performing ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ACTIONS: (1) using the :CRQ software."
I wonder when we'll see THIS EULA posted outside storefronts:
You agree to the terms and conditions of this license by performing ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ACTIONS: (1) entering this store.
Required Uses and Restrictions
By entering this store, you agree to purchase a minimum of $1000 US in merchandise in services. You also agree to accept all recommended Extended Warranty Contracts.
Limitation of Liability
(1) If this store collapse, maiming or killing you, this store is not responsible. If poorly placed objects fall from shelves, striking your body, this store is not responsible.
(2) If the employees taunt, ridicule, or insult you, this store is not held responsible. If the employees strike, injure, maim, or kill you, this store is not responsible.
Complete Agreement
This License constitutes the entire agreement between the parties with respect to the use of the this.
Governing Law
This agreement shall be construed, interpreted and the rights of the parties determined in accordance with the laws of the State of Our Mind (without reference to its choice of law provisions).
skoda
-----
D. Fischer
ShoutingMan.com
Maybe the "invasion of privace" isn't the address and name, number, ect.
Perhaps their software transmits the books' titles you scaned to a centralized database and can sell your reading habits a the end result is: your ass be spammed. Whereas the linux software is clean and healthy(well maybe not clean...)
later,
freeze
"Your pen is bugged..." "How do you know? " "This is an action thriller"
Didn't Mr. Ford and other manufacturers prevent a little known company (Tucker, I think..can't remember) for creating a car that would "revolutionize the industry?" I'm sure US. Conspiracy buffs could better fill in the details.
In anycase, companies are starting to get a little to antsy about protecting their rights without actually looking at the code. I mean isn't that inventing is? Creating a product that is better than the original without infringing upon other peoples ideas? This sounds like a kickass idea but once something comes out that could threaten the marketshare of company, that company releases the lawyers. Perhaps stiffer fines in the US should be imposed if a threatening letter is sent unjustifiably. That would knock the wind out of a lot of these orders. Fight the power Michael!
Sig it.
It seems to me CueCat's first step should be patching their server software so to require a valid registration code. Next, maybe associating each ID with the IP or domain from which it was registered so the third-party software doesn't get rewritten with a valid ID hard coded in. (I don't have any problem with companies setting the terms on which their servers can be accessed.) At that point, let hackers write all the software they want! CueCat will be getting their ports done for free.
---------
It seems to me CueCat's first step should be patching their server software to require a valid registration code. Next, maybe associating each ID with the IP or domain from which it was registered so the third-party software doesn't get rewritten with a valid ID hard coded in. (I don't have any problem with companies setting the terms on which their servers can be accessed.) At that point, let hackers write all the software they want! CueCat will be getting their ports done for free.
---------
But this business is just stupid. What does this company care? They own the patent on the device and the software is free, right? I don't see how this affects their revenue at all, even if it is illegal, which I doubt. (And before a swarm of people point to the DMCA, I know about that and I still doubt it's illegal.)
I've been working on KDE panel applets lately. Here's a port to add to my list...
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There are a select few instances where this doesn't work (monopolies, price fixing), but if you're selling something in a competitive market or selling something I can do without (like that DVD player I still haven't purchased), you'll do so responsibly or you won't see my money.
I think that this is the first in many cases where this is going to be happening. The more "agreements" like this that end up in court the more "agreements" there will be. Nobody likes being sued and what we are going to get into is a serious case of CYA, unfortunately, the only way to do this is with vague yet specific terminology, lots of money and a gaggle of lawyers on fat retainers. This has got to stop before we end up having to agree to the disclaimer that pops up on our tv screen everytime we turn it on before we can surf some channels. It's almost like they don't want people using their product. This is a perversion to creative thinking. If anybody should be upset and seeking restitution for it it should be those that have written the software....but then it wouldn't be in the spirit of Open Source. They should be recieving letters that say "Hey thanks for hookin that up for us...we were having some trouble with it....mind if we post it on our site?". "Help Help I'm bein repressed"
You scan in the barcode for some cheap-ass Americn swill, and print it on a label.
Verify that the barcode is good with the CueCat, then go to your local market.
Slap the sticker on something decent, maybe Grolsch or Sierra Nevada or Guinness.
Yum, a six-pack for $2.99, don't know why it scans as Milwaukee's best, must be a computer error.
Heh-heh-heh.
If anyone takes the time and visits RadioShack's website they will see that RadioShack is giving away the CueCat for FREE... It clearly states that . An item that is given away free has no value. An item that has no value is a poor candidate for court action. I've seen radio shack paper adds also stating they are giving away the CueCat for FREE. If anyone might be out of line legally it might be RadioShack in reference to Digital Convergences EULA... FREE does not mean that I'm loaning it to you and have the right to take it back if I dont like how you use it... If Digital Convergence is insistant on this amazingly silly tactic, it only make people very irratated at Radio Shack... and with the Christmas Season approaching does Radio Shack want ANY negative consumer actions. If Radio Shack does NOT have Digital Convergence issue an appology then I believe Radio Shack should be held responsible for FALSE ADVERTISING... Oh yeah the bar code reader is the UGLIEST one I have ever seen... FREE is probably the only way I'd ever hold one. TW
Handwrite someone a note. Sue whoever taught them to read. Why? Your handwriting is a proprietary algorithm.
I'm going to become richer than Bill Gates... Then I'll handwrite _him_ a letter.
SUWAIN: Slashdot User Without An Interesting Name
SUWAIN: Slashdot User Without An Interesting Name
because it's FREE damn it! and it's pretty cool, i guess
Okay, so supposedly by ripping open the **UNMARKED** plastic baggy and plugging the cuecat (suspiciously also not marked as concerning this amazing claim of license) into my computer, they claim I can be held to their ULA, even though I'd NEVER SEEN anything up to that point concerning it? I don't think they could make that stick legally. Besides, it's not like it's a marvel of electronic engineering. It's a bar code reader. Big deal. They have done themselves only harm by making a huge stink of this code that could only help them (or at least certainly not hurt them). BTW, if they could make that ULA stick, then I think we should all start putting ULA's on our websites... in tiny print at the bottom of a page buried under layers of menus: "accessing ANY of this site's pages entitles the webmaster to bill and receive from the user $4000.00 per page viewed by said user. User indicates his/her acceptance of this license by digitally accessing any of these pages..." And just like the DeCSS thing (where the code to READ the DVD is illegal to own for fear that everyone who owns it will start pirating DVDs), this is another gleaming example of our screwed up legal system, where common sense if considered null. If they succeed with the DeCSS lawsuits, you better hold onto your tape recorders, cd burners, typewriters and even your pens and pencils... they may try to claim that by being able to write you have an illegal ability to plagiarize copyrighted materials. It's getting ridiculous.
One solution would be for anyone who has registered the software and submitied personal information to contact the company and demand that they remove that information. Federal Law says that all personal information about you is your property and must be returned/destroyed at your request (with a few loop-holes for law enforcment, etc) Thats right your medical records, school records, etc are all your property and must be given to you on request. If everyone registers and then demends that there information be removed we can bog down their servers/work force and make them really pay!
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He who laughs last... Thinks slowest
1. Convert the DeCSS source code to groups of three-number octects (000-255) representing the ASCII characters of the source.
.mp3.
/. users with high UIDs are trolls dammit!
2. For additional fun, before step one, invert the bits of the source code. Claim this is a copyright protection device and nobody can attempt to circumvent it under the DMCA.
3. Use a barcode printer to print out the resulting sequence of numbers in barcode format.
4. Give to a friend.
5. Friend scans barcodes with free scanner and Linux driver.
6. Friend converts source code back into original form, saves it in a file whose name starts with Metallica and ends with
7. Publish the resulting file on Napster, Gnutella, Freenet, etc...
8. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
.sig: Not all
You can check out the license here. It says that "the CueCat reader distributed under this license is covered by this license."
Well, I got my reader at RS, and no license agreement or coverage was implicitly or explicitly stated, requested, or alluded to regarding opening, installing, or using the device itself. I have not installed or opened the software. (In fact, I've thrown it away, since I had no use for it.) So I would have to say that my device was not distributed under the license, and therefore is not covered by the license.
Does anybody know whether this is sound legal reasoning?
--When you buy proprietary software, you don't get better software. What you get is the right to complain about it.
If you ask me, Rothwell did CueCat a service in that now the company doesn't have to worry about writing a Linux driver.
I do see where CueCat may be scared, though. With the code from Rothwell freely given away, other companies can come in and start making their own bar code readers thereby keeping CueCat from making all the money.
Got 10 already. Going back tomorrow for more.
Cease and decist?(spelling nazis can piss off), I wonder how long it will take major corporations to figure out that once a program is out on the internet it is too late, you cant stop it, hell you can barely slow it down. This of course covers any program made by individual users provided free to the general public.
"Its ok mam im a cop!/I dont think he gives a sh!t" -Predator II
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. -Fight Club
The situation seems similar to a hammer manufacturer sending cease-and-desist letters to a nail maker because the nail makers product is in confict with the hammer maker's "One-Hit Board Fastening" patent or some other silly ip claim "the defendand reverse engineered the hammering process and is now making pirate nails!"
The enforcement of an EULA is still questionable, but binding me to an EULA I have never seen and never agreed to, which is not even hinted at in the packaging, is a joke. Give me this code, please, and I will post it. There's no leg to stand on here.
Went to RS today...picked up my free reader and software (along with a RS catlog full of these huge, obscene barcodes...note that they've had to reduce the size of the pics in the catalog to accommodate the codes). Now you HAVE to visit the websites just to see what the friggin things look like. Can't wait to play with the software and create some derivative works... then offer it for free on my ftp site. DC..Let's tango!
My soapbox: It's insufficient to protect ourselves with laws. We must do it with math. But I'm a girl. Whadda I know?
http://www-clg.bham.ac.uk/CUE/e /corpus/CueCat.html
:Cue or :Crq, but never the less this is the man one needs to speak with to make any sort of reference to "CUE" or "CUECAT", as his copywrite is the older.
http://www.clg.bham.ac.uk/CUE/uk/ac/bham/clg/cu
CUE version 1.3
Copyright (C) 1997 by The University of Birmingham and Oliver Mason for versions beyond 1.0, and
Copyright (C) 1997 The University of Birmingham, Oliver Mason and John Sinclair up to and including version 1.0
This software is free for non-commercial use; for commercial use please contact the author at the address below.
THE AUTHOR MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES ABOUT THE SUITABILITY OF THE SOFTWARE, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MECHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE AUTHOR SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES SUFFERED BY LICENSEE AS A
RESULT OF USING, MODIFYING OR DISTRIBUTING THIS SOFTWARE OR ITS DERIVATIVES.
-- Oliver Mason, O.Mason@bham.ac.uk
Sounds like a violation of Intelectual Property (tm) to me, this Cue as nothing to do with
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.