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LindowsOS Marches On
alphabet26 writes "I just received Lindow's 2001 Wrap-up e-mail, and it looks like they're still forging ahead regardless of the lawsuit Microsoft filed against them. In the update, CEO Michael Robertson included a letter in response addressed to Bill Gates, and also some screenshots of what the new LindowsOS will look like. He predicts the retail version will be available in the early months of 2002."
looks to me like win2k + object desktop.
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315
Wow, it's Windows with different icons! I'm so impressed. Anyone remember linuxOne?
this is getting old and so are you
blog
They should not cease their work until either they choose (i.e. if the market decides they are complete vapourware after all....), or until they are forced to, if a suitably independent judgement decides they are in fact infringing on an extant trademark.
Now the prime issues are will they actually get a decent useable product to market, and can they get suitably independent justice. Their adversary is one of the largest patrons of the legal trade after all...
jer
We may be human, but we're still animals
- Steve Vai
So can anyone prove that these aren't just screenshots of Windows 2000 with a stardock skin?
This product is destined to die. There is absolutely no need for something that will do 2 things in a mediocre way.
Computers are cheap. I have 2. One has Win2k. One has OpenBSD. That's all I need. I wish these people and their plans of "Bringing it all together" would go away and produce something useful instead.
In the event the server is /.'ed, here's what it reads....
Via Fax and U.S. Mail
(425) 936-7329
Mr. Bill Gates
Chairman, Board of Directors
Microsoft Corporation
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
Re: Lawsuit Over Our Use of LindowsOS-Proposal for Settlement Discussions
Dear Mr. Gates:
I am writing Chairman to Chairman to discuss the lawsuit your company filed against our use of "LindowsOS" for the LINUX based operating system we are advertising and developing.
I also had the opportunity to read press accounts which state or imply that Microsoft wants to resolve the controversy "voluntarily" and out of court. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss personally a potential informal resolution of this matter. Please call me to discuss this option as soon as possible.
As I understand your lawsuit, you say purchasers will be confused because of our use of "LindowsOS" and Microsoft's use of "WINDOWS" on its "XP PROFESSIONAL" and "XP HOME" operating systems. The corresponding and quite different logos placed next to each other are set out below for your convenience.
[image] [image]
As you can see, the distinct labeling and the differences of our products compel the conclusion that there will be no consumer confusion. We can also create different labeling if necessary or appropriate.
Lindows.com does not yet sell a product-at this point all we are doing is advertising. As you also are undoubtedly aware, when our operating system is ready for distribution, we plan on selling our LINUX based operating systems over the Internet to very sophisticated and discriminating customers who would not be confused that our product was created or sponsored by Microsoft. In contrast, you are selling about 90% of your operating systems to sophisticated OEM purchasers while about 10% are sold as CDs on store shelves. I can assure you that Lindows.com has not done and will do nothing to cause consumer confusion or trade upon Microsoft's goodwill. All we are trying to do is give consumers a distinct choice.
Needless to say, the lawsuit came as a complete surprise. For months, we have been very public with regard to our plans. Detailed descriptions of our operating system have been extensively disclosed and written about in advertising and media. Yet we were given no notice whatsoever of your displeasure with our use of the "LindowsOS" mark or slogan until the lawsuit was filed one business day before Christmas, alleging it was a prohibited use of your mark or slogan "Windows."
We are additionally puzzled because there was never any contact between our companies prior to the lawsuit. I would have thought that a phone call or fax, or even a formal cease and desist letter, would be a more appropriate first step to get to a voluntary resolution. On the other hand, I am glad to read in your court papers and press accounts that you are not trying to stop or prevent our company from launching our LindowsOS product-you just want us to stop using the mark or slogan "LindowsOS". That's good to hear because, like you, we are working hard to innovate and offer consumers a choice of novel and resourceful products.
I look forward to meeting with you to discuss the outcomes which work for both sides. It is my sincere interest to focus on delivering a unique product and not to get dragged into a lengthy court battle, so there is no need for any lawyers to meet with us.
Unfortunately, because you filed your complaint one business day before Christmas and have demanded a response in the shortest possible legal time frame (hearing set for January 11, 2002), we do not have much time to discuss this matter. Therefore, I would like to request that you continue the hearing on the preliminary injunction so that we could resolve this issue before we get bogged down in a quagmire of litigation.
I look forward to speaking with you as soon as possible.
Very truly yours,
Michael Robertson
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Lindows.com, Inc.
cc: Steve Ballmer, CEO
Dear Bill,
Why didnt you talk to us before you sued? Either way we'll keep doing what we're doing till someone in the court tells us to stop.
Have a nice day.
BOSTON SUCKS!
Also, Lindows screenshots look surprisingly good, apparently it runs IE and MS Word, something no Linux GUI has yet been able to do to my knowledge (Lotus Notes runs on linux), this looks like a big-time scam if you ask me. I think either Mr. Robertson has lost his mind or their marketing department is pulling a 'Daikatana.'
and don't you just love the ms bashing comments in the email on the outlook screenshot. if you're going for the microsoft-without-the-schnide-competitive-streak schtick then you've lost it already.
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315
to me it looks pointless.
u either use windows or linux. simple as that.
who needs something that does both, poorly?
Will
Looking at those screenshots of outlook running...
:-)
Oh joy! Here I was, reading my email in linux and feeling all left out when one of those little email worms hit and my friends using outlook were panicking! Now I'll be able to join in on the fun...
Assuming that's not just windows with a few GUI mods.
Humorless sig goes here.
Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2
God, I'm going to get so many 'foes' doing this. I'm simply doing this because I would have found it very useful.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
IE and MS Office running in a Linux-based environment! Evil? Probably. Capable of breaking the MS OS Monopoly? Maybe! (We can dream, can't we?) One thing is for sure, it sure looks pretty.
I liked his letter as well. Savvy? Yes. Patronizing? Who can say?
can anyone say, KDE? Looks unfinished..
..not exactly a resounding endorsement for their OS.
Of course, NetCraft reports it as NT4 w/ Apache.
I'm a 2000 man.
An OS's design influences how its native applications behave. Port a Windows app over to the Mac, and people will bitch like crazy. It just doesn't fit. Similarly, a windows app runninng on a linux box just has a fonky feel to it.
Windows apps are what makes windows what it is, and vice versa. If you want to run windows apps, run windows or an emulator.
there's more than one way to do me.
I do not see the benefits that this Linux-derived OS can bring, other than a little more publicity to our corner. Scott of Loki said that people who use Linux do so for the benefits Linux brings, and I agree.
Im not sure that the world needs/wants a better Windows than Windows. I don't need to remind anyone of the success of *all* previous endeavours to accomplish the same feat.
I hope these guys are just taking MS for a ride and have a nice strategy worked out to waste (m|b)illions of MS$ in court. The above comment certainly got me a pair of wet trousers
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Berto
If anything all this is - is some very good Wine work. I very much doubt in the time LindowsOS has been in development they have been able to write a windows compatbiltiy layer or something like it. I would like the commend the Wine people out there they are doing a great job and should keep up the great work. But as for LindowsOS this looks like a ploy to try to get Linux Newbies to switch over because it has some fancy styling and Wine installed. IF they can prove by randomly installing any windows based software that there setup works then I might become a beleaver until then im sticking with my Debian.
This reminds me of the BidBay and E-Bay Lawsuit. In this case, unlike the ebay case, I disagree with the agressor. In the case of bidbay they blatently went after the ebay look and feel and in my opinion delibrately confused many people. Lindows has never tried to claim that they are a microsoft product, and just looking at what we've seen thus far they haver done a good job of keeping the line between Microsoft and Lindows black as night.
MessEdUp
#/var/www/v
Here is a mirror of the screenshots.
Screenshot 1
Screenshot 1
kawai
Those screenshotd look pretty impressive. So impressive, in fact, I'm that skeptical, suspecting they might be mockups. If they are that far along, why don't they have betas anywhere?
The site is slashdotted now. Has anyone seen any pricing info on the product? They're calling it "affordable" on the home page. Are they contributing code back to GPL like Ximian?
Software Wars
A cheap replacement for Windows would be great for us - could use it on tons of our secretarial machines if it really does run Word.
The problem is not that it wouldn't be great - the problem is that I'll bet it won't actually run Word.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Nice idea but you have to wade through a load of sales blurb just to find out what the whole idea of the project is that I already don't trust the project - the FAQ just gave me the impression of people trying to out corporate-speak each other.
With too much of that kind of talk are people likely to step back and think that Lindows are too much like Microsoft?
Microsoft isn't trying to sue them to stop them from making their product. MS is suing to stop them from using their name "Lindows" which is a blatant rip-off of Windows. In order for MS to protect their IP, they have to defend their property from being diluted. I imagine if Lindows changed their name to Lindoors there wouldn't be a lawsuit. (of course maybe the chocolate company by the name Lindor might sue them :)
Anyway, what they are doing is perfectly legal. They're trying to make a business of that teeny segment of people that might in the slight chance want to run windows and linux on one platform.
Needless to say, the lawsuit came as a complete surprise.
oh really?
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315
"How much will LindowsOS cost? For $99 users can obtain LindowsOS along with the promise that Lindows.com will work hard to give consumers real value. Your satisfaction, is always assured, since all Lindows.com products come with a money-back, satisfaction guarantee. Creating a compatible, stable, easy-to-use OS isn't an easy job, and Lindows.com is committed to remain in this market for many years to come. This fee will help Lindows.com continue to provide support and future updates to LindowsOS."
They're charging $99 for this. How ridiculous. OEM versions of Genunie Windows cost about the same... and they are guaranteed to work with _all_ Windows software. This is like saying, "Well, a could get a Genuine Mac built by Apple, or I could get a clone for the same price." That's absurd.
"At the core of Lindows.com is a new operating system called LindowsOSTM, a modern, affordable, easy-to-use operating system with the ability to run both Windows® and Linux® software."
Revolutionary new OS called LindowsOS? Really. Kinda looks like a skinned version of KDE running atop Linux to me. Maybe they'll mask the bootup console output with a nice graphic. This is completely ridiculous for two reasons: 1) It costs about the same amount as Windows, which is guaranteed to run all Windows apps. 2) Linux is free. It's used (mostly) by programmers for things that suit their needs. Last time I checked $99 + $0 = $99. So... use Genuine Windows to run Windows apps... and boot into Linux to use Linux apps. If you're a die-hard Linux user, there's WINE anyway (which I think is what this is based on). If you're a die-hard Windows user, boot into Linux when you have to. End of story.
So it looks like Windows and runs Windows programs, but it cant (acording to the Lindows people) be confused with Windows.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Those are awful big screen shots to be used when trying to get /.ed
Although... they do run IIS on this LindowsOS [joke]
Get your Unix fortune now!
I agree, there is a credibility issue. The fact that these people claim to be doing in almost no time what has taken wine several years. Lets analyze the situation...
.. ..... ROFLMAO
Case 1) Lindows is actually Windows2000,XP, etc with vmware or the like running linux on demand.
Case 2) Lindows is actually Windows2000,XP, etc with a custom linux emulator that runs apps on demand, seamlessly.
Case 3) Lindows is Linux running VMware for a Windows desktop.
Case 4) Lindows is Linux running CodeWeaver's Wine to launch windows apps on demand.
Case 5) Lindows is Linux running a new windows emulator or API that we haven't previously heard of.
Case 6) Lindows is a new OS, that is both windows and linux and runs elf and exe executables natively.
Case 7) Lindows is a hoax.
Now the breakdown.
Cases 1 and 2 are absurd. They would have reason to fear microsoft if they are just renaming and reselling Microsoft's product. However these solutions give the ultimate in Windows software compatibility (Joe Sixpack translation : my games will run really smoothly).
Case 3 is possible, but apps would run slowly, no OpenGL support, games would be lousy on VMware. Best chance of Software compatibility. Plus they have to license VMWare.. And why not just go with a known good linux distro and do this. The product would offer no market distinction.
Case 4 is possible. Games would run better than on VMWare with OpenGL and DirectX support. Some apps would be broken though. Once again, this is no different that what could be done with SuSE, debian, mandrake, slackware, etc...
Case 5 is possible though unlikely. I'm sure there would be some leakage of information if a superior wine had been brewing for the last couple of years.
Case 6
Case 7 is certainly possible. I'll not be the fool and discredit the claims that they are making on their website.
My guess is that Case 7 is correct, and Case 5 is a close second. Case 1 is possible if the company had the balls and stupidity to repackage and resell a Microsoft product.
-fc
.
. echo -e \\04 >
Mr. Bill Gates
Chairman, Board of Directors
Microsoft Corporation
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
Is that line under Microsoft Corporation the address or Microsoft's motto?
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
I hit the screenshot link and got "file not found". A blank screen that does nothing? Looks just like Windows ME!!!! Good job guys!!!
Zing!
do not read this line twice.
Yes, please mod it back down.
It was my mistake - I thought I saw something I didn't.
I'm a 2000 man.
I know Windows is an absurdly generic name for a windows based operating system and I doubt there will be any confusion, but you have to admit, Lindows would be a bizarre name for an operating system if we weren't so familiar with the Windows OS.
Watch my karma get mauled for not completely siding with Linux... : )
--- Apparently I have an old
The website claims that Lindows will allow the running of both Linux and Windows apps. Why do the screenshots only show Windows ones? There's no demonstration of any sort of interoperability whatsoever.
It's not so much a complaint about software technology as a complaint about a trademarked product name.
Oops, I forgot that's what makes the industry go round. Back to reality and put idealism back in the toilet.
I locked in my first software development internship by telling the CIO:
- "I want to [someday] build a Windows compatible operating system."
During the interview I didn't know he was the CIO but I got the job.I'm a 2000 man.
If this product will
A: Run Word well
B: Cost significantly less than Windows
we'd use it. Obviously if it "works half as well" then it will be pointless, but that's not something we can assume right now.
How can you say they're "wasting their time" when you have no idea how good/not good the finished product will be? If these screenshots are honest, I say they could have something significant. If it runs Windows apps well (and it's cheaper or faster or whatever), it could well be the right tool for that job.
Not that I expect it to... but who knows? Not you.
.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Coindicentally, is that the same GEOS that ran on C64 with the nifty graphics editor? (for it's time..)
i hate pansy republicans
Well, I can't get to the site, but my guess would be that the $199 is for a full retail package with support and bundled apps/utilities, as with most commercial Linux packages. My further guesses are that (a) they'll eventually offer some sort of stripped-down version for download, with no support and no bundled apps/utils; and (b) that $199 will allow as many installs as you want, as opposed to Win2K/XP/etc., which cost $199 per install.
Point b is the biggie, and it may prove compelling to many corporate and govt. customers if Lindows really runs Win32 apps flawlessly at a cost savings of thousands of dollars or more. But as I say, I can't get through to their site, and they're not even in beta yet, so this is purely speculation on my part.
-brennan
You're right, except:
1) It looks nothing like OS X
2) OS X doesn't run Windows apps
3) OS X doesn't run linux apps (shaddup about XDarwin)
4) OS X doesn't run on x86 hardware (darwin does, though)
5) OS X is a real product
Other than that, the similarities are clear.
there's more than one way to do me.
1. the pricing will be
2. they won't contribute back to GPL. They are here to make money you know.
I see two possible outcomes :
1. They succeed. We are all morons because they did in a few months what we (open source developers) couldn't do in ten years.
2. They fail. We are all deeply fucked because evryone will laugh saying : "linux is not for the desktop", "windows is easier", etc.
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
How i wish that their web developer would become informed that changing the window size and removing the toolbars is the fastest way to get rid of the said descriminating users.
> This does NOTHING to fix the single biggest problem with Linux (aside from it being too damned hard, even for someone with 20 years in the computer field!)... NO COMPELLING APPS!
How about shell scripting for automating stuff?
or command Piping? Integrated compression tools? What? winzip doesn't come with windows?
Yeah, windows has some scripting tools, but let's be honest. They suck compared to a simple shell script.
IMHO, shell scripting is the best feature of unix.
I can record my favorite morning talk show from my FM tuner card, compress it to MP3 and burn to CDRW with a simple cron job. Until I can do all that in windows, I'm not giving up my linux box.
Why not use LindOS instead?? It looks and sounds spiffy, and there is no way in hell M$ could bitch about it...
And the idea of running a Notes client NATIVELY in a Linux OS excites me beyond normal measures of decency... GO LINDOWSOS!!
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
Linux zealots are pissed because with the release of Win2K, MS actually has a stable, robust OS (I've heard XP is even better, I haven't taken that plunge yet).
First, I have never heard any of my friends says "You know, that Win 2K with its damn stability really pisses me off" Second, XP is really wonky I agree that Win 2K is very stable...I begged to use win2k instead of other M$ dribble & drool (oops, I meant point and click)OSes. However, M$ created XP which was more in line with their goals (99% downtime ?) and they marketed the hell out of it and so guess what...
I also agree that this not the way to steal the desktop space. The most this will do is maybe help a few dual booters to settle on an OS, but I doubt it because most of us figure out emulators (or in my case realize that photoshop licks the Gimps *$$ and thus Windows is not worth it). Those screenshots look slick, imagine if those people contributed to Gnome or KDE or some other project (maybe Koffice).
In summary, I am glad that they have so much latitude of choice...that is what puts Linux UP THERE in my book. The fact that they can put together a Linux distro and have it run things like IE and Outlook.
Cheers
I liked that someone encrypted their sig...
This does NOTHING to fix the single biggest problem with Linux (aside from it being too damned hard, even for someone with 20 years in the computer field!)...
I know you are a troll! But what am I?
20 years in the computer field doesn't count when it's selling them or working at AOL.
How can you not be able to learn linux if you've used PC's before Windows?
Get your Unix fortune now!
Hmm
If it took from the begining of DOS/Windows till NT/2K/XP to get fairly stable AND useable with thousands working on it, why not wait a while longer for Linux? I mean Linux has had good stability down for a long while. Discounting it's future completely is poor form indeed.
Right now I'd say Linux is approaching the equivalent 1996 level of Windows NT support/useability. It doesn't support everything but more and more stuff is coming out. The system requirements are going up. The desktop (KDE, Gnome ect.) is getting better. The bonus is that it's not a dead end product. Try getting your USB devices to work well on NT 4. Due to it's open nature Linux keeps moving forward and one can extend it. I'm not saying that its future is ensured or even easy to predict but that's where it seems to be heading on the desktop.
Choices are good. Opensource choices are good. Competition in this space is also good and helps drive inovation. Sure linux has few compelling apps (compared to Windows) now, but given enough time and a growing userbase, it has a better than average shot at improving that situation.
If apps make the platform as you seem to state, then maybe the next big push will be UI and Apps.
The Desktop icons are identical in both screen shots. I think someone posted the the wrong screen shot of the LindowsOS.
Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
Dear Mister Robertson,
Very few people are going to believe your company has a real product until you make a beta available. Screenshots are nice, but they say nothing of the performance of these applications under Linux, assuming they are even real and not Photoshopped-up.
Also, taking on Microsoft directly is silly. I'm no Microsoft supporter, and I don't think 'Windows' should be trademarkable, but the fact is that it IS a Microsoft trademark as upheld several times by the courts and calling your product Lindows is clearly exactly the sort of close-enough-to-confuse-but-not-exact naming issue that trademark law was created to avoid. You will lose in any legal action against Microsoft and the best move for your company would be to rename the product now before it is too late. If your product is real, and the audience is the audience you mentioned in your mail to Bill Gates (the Linuxy, Slashdotty crowd), we'll all hear about the rename right here on Slashdot, I'm sure; so while you'll lose some amount of branding (and I honestly believe the amount of branding you have so far is a clear indication of your trademark violation and riding on the name of Windows, since you have no product shipping anyone can run to link mentally with 'Lindows'), it would be better for you to do this in the long run.
The longer you don't take REAL action to resolve the legal matters, the more your project looks like a sad attempt to gain attention and less like a serious product that will someday be available.
I speak only for myself.
Go, Jesse Jackson! Er, wait...
-Legion
I don't care how great a product this is, I hope this Robertson company goes down in flames and he moves on to something else.
I was around on mp3.com when the first RIAA attacks came. I actually beleived his rhetoric of fighting for the movement.
Then he sold out.
He settled. This was bad.
To make it worse, I just visited mp3.com after about a year of not caring. I was spurned by a thread on /. to get back into listening to indie music. Now, half of the fsck'ing songs on the top 40 are RIAA crap! WTF?!?
Yeah, he can pursue money in any way he chooses. But please, Robertson, drop the pretense of actually caring about the causes yo trumpet to the media.
This entire Lindows thing smells of getting VC, giving yourself a huge bonus, then bailing once the courts order you into compliance.
Piss off.
Method of processing duck feet
Ok, I'm sitting here thinking "Ok, this could be kind of neat. A way to actually challenge Microsoft... someone puts out a Microsoft Clone that runs all Microsoft software for free. We'll all slowly switch because, well, what's the point of paying for something when it's easily available for free." Great, I like things that are free... and this would allow some playing with Linux, which I've never bothered to do before (because everything I've needed for Windows I've gotten for free and didn't care how much more it cost).
But, ok, here it costs $99 and will only run some Windows applications, isn't open sourced, and most likely vapor.
Well, uh, what's the point? What does legit Windows cost? Not terribly much more than $99, and you know what... if it comes down to it I'm not paying $99 or $199, for either product, it'll find it's way onto the computer without the cost... so I might as well go for the original as opposed to the rip-off, if I'm already waltzing down that track to begin wtih.
Too bad, seemed neat.
--
RumorsDaily
One Way to rule them all
One Way to find them
One Way to squeeze them all
Of all the dough inside them.
If they do succeed we will soon see a Microsoft written 'Lindows'.
If they are using GPL code they will get caught. If they are using GPL code and they tell everyone we can [and will] make that revised code available.
I actually have no problem with a 'Windows Layer' for linux and even invite MS to come up with one. I bet when they start to write it and get half way through they just figure that the action IS where linux is.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Okay,
this sounds like a troll, but what the heck I bite...
Why should I want to run WINDOWS? At home I have several Linux machines and some Solaris Machines sitting around doing everything I want to do.
Yes, games don't work, but then again I am all too happy to be away from the computer from time to time.
Quite frankly the only reason I see why people rely on Windows is for the games, anything else there are the same tools out there that are at least as good (Star Office).
Yes, most people don't see it that way, but even right now I connect to an Exchange Server via Netscape to read my mail.
Honestly: Lindows is a nice idea (if it's real that is) and I am sure it'll make it a lot easier for IT Departments to get Unix / Linux on the desktop (once it's there people can start to push native Apps).
All in all, IF it's true: Cool.
If not: Nice Marketing stunt.
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
Is it possible that this company is actually backed by Billy? And just to knock us off the trail, they have this phony suits about Lin and Win.
I can't think of any other way, they're doin' it.
And not to mention how quick these guys are. How did it take Wine to do all that it can now?
How the hell did they get M$ Explorer to run there beats me. This is way too fishy.
Michael mentions that he will be targeting savy users to purchase and download his software.. so Im just wondering.. how many /. crew that are savy enough to realise this is KDE/Wine.. are going to pay him to get what they can get for free minus the pretty little logo? Also you will still be required to purchase a license for each seat you plan to run the MS product on. Porting the entire windows API is a bad idea.. trying to sell it is a really bad idea.. trying to sell it while infringing on a trademark of a monster.. *shakes head*
Registrant:
lindows.com (LINDOWS-DOM)
P.O. Box 620603
Woodside, CA 94062
US
Domain Name: LINDOWS.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:
Center, Network (LU9) noc@LINUS.COM
linus.com
P.O. Box 620603
Woodside, CA 94062
US
(650) 555-1212
Record last updated on 27-Jul-2001.
Record expires on 27-Jul-2009.
Record created on 27-Jul-1998.
Database last updated on 3-Jan-2002 22:19:00 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
DNS1.HOSTPRO.NET 209.196.128.13
DNS2.HOSTPRO.NET 209.196.128.14
Registrant:
Upson, Linus (LINUS13-DOM)
P.O. Box 620603
Woodside, CA 94062
US
Domain Name: LINUS.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:
Upson, Linus (OISHVRZVKI) noc@linus.com
Upson,Linus
P.O. Box 620603
Woodside, CA 94062
US
(650) 759-8402 123 123 1234
Record last updated on 19-Dec-2001.
Record expires on 15-May-2009.
Record created on 14-May-1995.
Database last updated on 3-Jan-2002 22:19:00 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.ELECTRICRAIN.COM 64.71.143.226
NS2.ELECTRICRAIN.COM 63.192.215.189
--It's Pimptastic!--
I'm amazed at how much venom has spewed forth from this crowd over this little company. For those of you who seem to not get this idea
***THE POINT***
"My office runs outlook and IE, and I need to keep my palm in synch. But I've heard good things about that Linux operating system."
"Children need to explore the world of computing. While they've convinced me to switch from AOL to Earthlink, I don't think I could live without my copy of outlook."
"We've spent hundreds of dollars on software already, so while I hate Microsoft I guess I'm stuck using them."
They're NOT trying to get you to switch to Windows (though I wouldn't mind getting Dreamweaver to work. [ducks]). They're not here to fake screenshots. They're not trying to destroy all that makes Open Source good by commingling it with Windows. They're opening a migration path. If you have one app that you desperately need that only runs under windows, but you prefer or want to experiment with another operating system, you can. Connectix has been doing it for years with the Virtual PC for the Macintosh, and this is basically just a more integrated version of that (and one where Microsoft doesn't recieve unnecessary royalties). This is not going to take over the world, destroy linux or windows, but fill a necessary niche.
Good luck Lindows team, you have my support.
-Chris
The ______ Agenda
Look, more power to the guy for trying to create this product. I think it would be incredibly valuable if he pulls it off.
But the freaking name is obviously a rip-off of Windows. There is no question that it would create market confusion. For him to claim otherwise is just nonsense. After all, why call it Lindows if you're not trying to piggyback on Windows?
Look Robertson, just change the name. This is not rocket science. Or is this just some ploy to get free press?
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Oh man... did anybody else notice what was in the bottom screenshot posted at lindows.com? Outlook is open to an email with the subject "Microsoft Warns of 'Critical' Security Hole in XP". The body of the email takes up a good chunk of the screenshot.
Michael Robertson did this with MP3.com too - he subtly taunted the big record labels (and they eventually sued as well). While I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, I'm glad he's doing what he does because somebody needs to be a thorn in the side if the RIAA and Microsoft and he has done it in a very entertaining way.
-----
Free P2P Backup, Windows & Linux
You're right - initially people would run their copy of Office XP directly on Lindows, and save the money. Open Source office programs would be largely neglected, *but still developed*.
But now lets fast forward a year in the corporate timeline. Company X wants to buy 50 new computers and therefore needs 50 licenses for Office YQ. They're running Lindows.
Bright spark A says 'Hey, we're running that Lindows thing now. I hear that Open Office 2003 is actually just as good as Office, and it's free, and it also supports our current Office XP files! Now that we've got Lindows it'll be a cinch to get it working!'
Managers love the cost savings, and hence the business starts to migrate to Open Office.
The fact that Linux apps are free of restrictive licenses will mean that people will start to migrate to them. Lindows, if it works, is an important stepping stone.
' Ore stabit fortis a fine placet ore stat '
- found on a park bench
(The machine would start booting, then say "Active directory could not start", then reboot... even if you tried booting into "safe mode", or "command prompt only".. there was one option to allow you to boot without Active Directory, but if you did that, there was no way to log into the machine!)
That's a good point regarding Win2K networks. I was only referring to the desktop(Win2K Pro) as that was where the discussion was centered. However, once you employ the active directory on your W2K network the Win Professional machine is just as vulnerable to all these flaky network mods.
My ideal (if it exists) Windows network would be NT4 servers with Win2K Pro on the desks.
Cheers
the link provided only brings you to a page with javascript popups of the images, which are slashdotted anyway. here's a direct link to both images: First
...looks damn cool, should really help in the migration away from windows for people too comfortable with it to be able to switch.
Second
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
So can anyone prove that these aren't just screenshots of Windows 2000 with a stardock skin?
I can't prove it to you beyond doubt, but I know KDE when I see it, and this is it. The folder icon on the desktop is a dead giveaway (all the other icons seem to be customised, but this one has been left as the KDE default), as are the handles on the panel applets, which appear to be from Qt's built-in Windows style. Also, the window decorations (close/maximise/minimise buttons) are the KWin 'Redmond' style. Note the gradient on those buttons, Win2k's are flat. Note also the inconsistency between the applet handles on the panel and the toolbar handles in IE and Word - if nothing else this should prove that this isn't a WindowBlinds skin.
I have previously run both IE and Word successfully under WINE, and Notes is also supposed to work - yes, WINE even sets the right icons in the taskbar as the Lindows screenshots show.
So, it's pretty obvious to me that this is indeed Linux, and it's real. All it is is a distro with a slightly customized KDE and WINE setup to launch Windows apps. No great shakes, I can do all this already on my Debian box, and you can do it too on any distro that includes KDE and WINE.
If you still don't believe me, it'd be pretty easy to knock up similar screenshots under any of the major distros. Anyone fancy a go? I won't get a chance until I get home tomorrow...
If you're still not sure after all that, you're going to have to (gasp, shock, horror) actually sit down in front of a Linux box and see it in action yourself.
Want to get sued for trademark infringement so that you can get posted on Slashdot? It's easy... just one step required. When designing a new name, first: take your competitors name and then change it a little bit. (Alternatively, if you don't want to get sued for trademark infringment, try this: don't use your competitors name at all when thinking of your own name.)
Anyone who doesn't want to run windows apps on a linux machine has obviously never worked as a techie in a corporate environment (read: not sofware company). If only I didn't have to use MS-Lookout and IE...
May no camel spit in your yogurt soup.
What a shame that WINE isn't a GPLed product. If this isn't a hoax this looks very much like a modified, patched version of WINE.
:(
But because WINE doesn't use the GPL, the code changes probably aren't going to be distributed to the general public, so we'll end up with one Linux distro with a better Windows emulator than the rest of them.
' Ore stabit fortis a fine placet ore stat '
- found on a park bench
Why buy this, go through whatever trouble it may or may not be to set up, when Windows does nicely?
For me this is easy, I make part of my living writing Visual Basic programs, mostly front ends to various SQL databases. If I want to work at home, this means I have to have at least one system set aside with Windows installed or I have to dual boot. Since I am entirly a Linux User at home, this system is useless to me except for that single purpose. If I were dual booting, the Windows partition would be wasted HDD space except for that single purpose. With Lindows I can do my work on my main machine and retire that old 233 in the corner.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power - Benito Mussoli
Although I haven't seen enough of Lindows to figure out whether they have anything, I certainly think this kind of project is feasible. Most people would say "Why not just use a normal distro and Wine?" Why? One reason: Tivo.
Tivo takes the base operating system and customizes it to suit one goal: being a PVR. I can barely get my Linux box to play VCDs reliably, and I consider myself a power user. However, Tivo gets to cut away all the cruft and options until they're left with a base system optimized for video recording and playback. The pieces are all solid, so they can make something fairly bulletproof in a short time.
So, if the stated goal of Lindows is narrow enough, it might work. Dvorak thinks that the goal should be to run Office, and I agree. Most Windows users I know run Office, AOL, and little else. For business applications, they don't even need AOL. (Well, they don't need it anyway, but you know what I mean.)
A cheap, pre-configured system that runs Office would be a market hit. Other applications could be "unsupported" without alienating many customers. Support a few popular Windows games later and you gain another market as well.
Like I said, who knows if they actually plan this. It certainly is a possibility, though.
~chris
Read the full text my book Perl for the Web
You do realize that Linux is neither a person or a company, right? Just a friendly note: when you say things like this you sound like some 12-year-old who just heard of Linux last week.
I think they meant the "Linux Community." Just a friendly note: when you say things like that you sound like a Linux-Zealot that looks to find "flame" material anywhere and gives the "Linus Community" the appearance of a bunch of whiners that are grasping for straws.
This lawsuit could be easily avoided if they just defined "LindowsOS" as:
LindowsOS is not dumb old windows software Or Something
That way, right in the name of the product, they're saying it's not Windows. How much more straightforward can they get?
It appears they have been /.'ed I can not get to their site. Can anyone else?
-- Powered By Linux
A Chinese group called Xteam makes (or used to make? the 'buy' link is broken or I can't read the Chinese error message) some product called Xteam Lindows 3.0. Check out the cool icon at least.
Here's an English description of the software and company:
Linux for Windows:
Specially use for installing and running on Microsoft Windows, namely XteamLindows 3.0, offers convenience for those newbies who heard about Linux, curious to know more, and besides, it's a powerful tool for popularizing Linux.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
What? Just give me GEM or TOS. Now those were a great combination OS.
Atari rulez!!!
so 1 and 2 really are absurd. ;)
however, i'm voting for hoax at the moment. hehehe. when they release a beta that i can try, i'll believe it.
I can certainly see how "Lindows" would clearly infringe on a trademark of "Windows." But my recollection, from several years ago, was that microsoft was quite clear that the claimed trademark was for "Microsoft Windows," not "Windows," both because a simple windows trademark would have infringed on others, and because it was a term already in common usage for, uhhh, windowing on a microcomputer screen.
So I remain baffled as to what trademark is at issue--I see no chance that someone confuses "Lindows" and "Microsoft Windows"--unless someone is claiming that "Windows" is not common usage, which would undermine the trademark anyway . . .
hawk
Using this link from a previous post I see something ODD on the IE screenshot. The 'Back' button is spelled "Bac" and 'Stop' is "Sto" all of the buttons are this way on the IE screenshot. Is this to keep copyright lawyers at bay, or is something else awry?
The electric yellow has got me by the brain banana
Image Mirror
As you can read on the website, it detects win apps you have installed on your pc and adds the ones it can run to the startmenu.
If only I could come up with a good sig
1. They succeed. We are all morons because they did in a few months what we (open source developers) couldn't do in ten years.
Note that Lindows can build on that ten years of open source development in WINE. It's not GPL -- it's an X11 type license.
From the wine-devel mailing list: "We switched from the BSD license to the X11 license on 2000/4/24 to enable commercial companies to be able to include WINE into their products."
The X11 license lets them use WINE without even displaying a copyright message like a BSD license would require.
Ian
This being why people perfer to disable Microsoft FUD features such as Active Directory.
:) )
/STILL/ insists on, at seemingly compleatly random times, spinning up the CD-ROM drive and deciding what is in it. (uuh, okaaay. . . . Sitting in the middle of a game run soly from my HD and the computer just THEN decides to pause /EVERYTHING/ and check out whats in the CD-ROM drive. . . . )
I have successfuly ran my Win2K box with ~1kB of free space avaliable. (HD sector size was a bit above that, heh, can't get any fuller then that.
It ran just fine. To my friend's and my surprise.
Now as for Windows not deleting temporary files or Temporary internet files when it should. . . . (ugh, 5Gigs of Temporary internet files, bleh! Set at 400megs or so. Better then in Win98 though, it'd crash the machine if you hit "delete temporary internet files." hehe.)
I actualy do alot of Win2K at once. I can keep Photoshop open at all times (I was using a 9x machine the other day and was violently reminded of how damn ass slow 9x gets if you try and keep numerious large applications open at once. ^_^ ) along with Rhino3d and a host of other applications (30 browser windows, etc)
Of course it does still have some obvious problems.
It
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
"Why should I want to run WINDOWS? At home I have several Linux machines and some Solaris Machines sitting around doing everything I want to do. "
/ADVANCED/ GUI modelers. Rhino3d is considered primitive in the Windows world as far as feature sets go (its UI is unmatched by anybody else's out there though) but even it is still heads and tails above anything affordable on the free *nixs.
Graphic design, 3d modeling, animation, etc.
Yah yah yah you can POVRay it.
If you can type out the friggin scene mathmaticaly.
For those of us who can't act as a stunt double in Rainman though. . . . GUI modelers come in handy.
(Or at least anything advertised much.)
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Yes they do, however, they have an interesting clause in the NDA that prevents anyone who lives in Washington state from joinging their insider program. I wrote to them , and they say that Microsoft is preventing them from allowing washington state residents in the program.
It's nice to know that when a cease-and-decist order from MSFT can't shut down the company, a nice slash-dotting can. MSFT should just buy Slashdot instead of all these other companies.
Wine has been getting better and better and with the misc. binformat support I have it loading and running java and windows programs seemslessly, it's only a matter of time before someone tries to tie it all together.
it could be running from windows
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Lindows appears to be more suited for MS users who are disenchanted with Windows. I think there were a lot of people who were angered by MS's last liscense agreement.
BETA or Bull.
I'll believe it when I see it. So far it sounds like GUI on top of WINE. XWine? j/k Philippe. http://freshmeat.net/projects/xwine/ http://freshmeat.net/projects/wine/ http://www.winehq.com/
God Moving Over the Face of Waters
I see two possible outcomes :
:-P
1. They succeed.
2. They fail.
Brilliant. Mod this up.
And their logo should be something like this:
A chubby face is blowing wind, while with a naughty half smile, and a window shatters into pieces.
That's a connotation for an overall wiping of the Windows desktop.
1. They succeed. We are all morons because they did in a few months what we (open source developers) couldn't do in ten years.
Not necessarily. Look at it this way. Suppose you are a manager and need to reverse engineer a highly complex and heterogeneous set of software modules. This works out to be a series of tricky puzzles in a variety of areas: networking, memory management etc. Tough for a manager to put together a large enough team with the right set of skills to do this, but perhaps easier for an open source project with high visibility and prestige. Creativity is hard to hire, but easier to get for free if you are willing to let the programmers choose what they work on.
On the other hand, suppose you are pretty close, but there are a couple of tens of thousands of routine details to fix up. Somebody needs to go through and make sure all the UI stuff is consistent (not necessarily better -- make it work this way even if you don't like it), somebody needs make fonts that look just so etc. These are a bounded set of tasks requiring not so much creativity as organization and the ability to make sure that certain things get done on schedule even if they are mind numbingly boring. Here's were a company might be faster than an open source project.
It would be a simplification to say that open source projects can do some things better than a commercial outfit or vice versa. There are disciplined open source projects and creative commercial developers. However, each model has its natural strengths.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Graphic design, 3d modeling, animation, etc.
Yah yah yah you can POVRay it.
If you can type out the friggin scene mathmaticaly.
Uh...what about Maya? I mean, it's only the leading industry standard in 3D modelling/animation. And it runs on Linux. See this Alias|Wavefront press release if you don't believe me. The fact is, Linux is now considered a better OS for 3D work than Win2k (faster, more reliable). In my view, nothing beats The Gimp+Maya combination (now if they could only put out the equivalent of Illustrator for Linux...Adobe, are you listening?)
Reminder: find a new sig
Comment removed based on user account deletion
OK, I can't make it any simpler.
The requirement of buying office doesn't negate the potential price difference between Windows and Lindows (I don't know what actual prices are going to be - Lindows would have to be significantly cheaper to buy it merely as a replacement).
You may believe that StarOffice is an easy-swap kind of replacement for Office. I hear that now and again, but not usually from people who run large, document-centric businesses.
That said, I'm no expert on StarOffice. I do know, though, that there are many businesses - including us - that would be interested in a cheaper OS that was compatible with Windows apps, especially Office.
Also, remember that all users are not you. Many users by collectable plates. I know many that like Clippy.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
The fonts are resized to a larger size in the screenshots, but the gdi objects don't scale with the resized font. XP does this for you. So people who resize their fonts are back into windows 95's GDI.
The icon's in the Outlook tree are not alphablended, the transparent parts are black. This and other things in the Office gui that isn't rendered correctly, but rendered as if it's office95 on a win95 box.
I also don't see the point of this OS. Migration some people say. I don't think so: first you have to migrate your, say 1000, desktops from windows to lindows (does it use profiles? policies?), and then, later, from lindows to Linux? Why? If you want linux, why not just migrate from windows to linux? You still have to pay for lindows!
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
IF indeed Ol' Billy Boy was worried about a trademark, why haven't they taken on the equally violating Winux?
Mark my words, this is just the first of many legal potholes that will be put in the way of Lindows developement (or any other similar product) by M$.
Yes, Iknow this is partially flamebait, but the point is valid.
-- The morphemes of your disquisition are ascertainable, but they have eschewed an ambit of transpicuous exposition.
it looks like Windows raped Linux .. and that's their bastard child
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that it is already possible (and on top of that, for free) to run Linux on top of an installed Windows OS.
Check out Cygwin, which started as a Bash shell for windows, and now has advanced API's, etc. It even comes with X11, GCC, SSH, SSHD, Perl, etc. Now I have Win2k on my desktop, running SSHD so that I can login remotely and run scientific simulation jobs, access my files, etc. From here you can even run a CVS server.
In my opinion this is the way to go: have Windows and MS take care of hardware compatibility, and have Linux focus on software and usability issues. No matter how much I hate to admit it, having an underlying OS with good hardware support is bliss. Most OEMs ship their PCs with Windows installed anyway. With Cygwin, all you need to do is install Cygwin.
Sure, you can argue that it's not really Linux since it depends on Cygwin's API and everything, but with more support from the free software community this can make a very nice system that is very easy to install (since you don't have to fight to get your kernel to support your brand new graphics card), and has good UNIX-like features.
Oh, and they're available for free, with GPL and everything.
L'etat n'a pas besoin des savants.
- Robespierre, refusing clemency for Lavoisier
Does Lindows.com support Open Source? Lindows.com respects all applicable licensing and is proud to be a strong supporter of the Open Source community by helping to advance several Open Source initiatives. Some of the LindowsOS code will be Open Source. Likewise, as a business that plans on being around for a very long time, Lindows.com will at times have some unique and proprietary components.
From what I've heard & seen, Lindows is just Linux + a proprietary version of Wine (which is OK according to Wine's licencing). IMHO those guys are taking credit of other people's work, without giving back anything. And this FAQ is an offense to any Open Source developer. I'd like to have a list of the numerous Open Source projects they so strongly support.
Maya is not appropriate for everything. Nor for everybodies pocketbooks.
/host/ of applications competing for the user space.
:)
*COUGH* $7500 *COUGH*
Granted they have a very acceptable Academic Licencing program (cheaper then 3DSM).
Many of us consider Maya's interface to be Dog Shit though.
Me, personaly.
You can pry my Autocad derived GUI w/integrated CLI interface from my old dead hands.
It ain't about the killer app man, its about the SELECTION of apps.
Lets say Photoshop+Imageready gets ported over.
Nice first step. I still have a host of customized GIF animation utilities that I use that are not over there. While for GIF animations I could probebly find another set of optimizers (Adobe's SUCK. Horribly. Imageready took over half an hour to load a 20meg GIF file once, yeeuck), it does demonstrate my point that you need a
That way people can find one that suits them.
Some people like Painter 6. Some people suffer physical pain when using Painter 6. I literaly get ill when I try to use it. The program is that much opposite of my mental mindset. Alot of hardcode artists love it though. For the logical type though, Photoshop owns. I knew where all the tools where the first time I started it up, because they are where they are supposed to be! Now that is just me, but if you want to attract both crowds, both programs need to be ported over.
Or;
Run under Lindows.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Look up alot of oracle addresses, they do the same.
One click to purchase, download and install software on Lindow...
Hmm, almost a bit too much if you ask me.
--
Slashdot signature: 'Laugh assist to nerd'
not really. it looks like XP with the icons renamed to "Lindows . . ." where are the linux apps? no xterm, no xemacs, nothing. i'm still having trouble seeing that thing thing is for real. and if it is, it'll either be a flaky windows OS with limited linux capability or a flaky linux OS with limited windows capability. i guess you can call me a software nazi: we need pure-bred OS's with balls.
Maybe Michael Robers should fix the "lindows.com" site so that it can withstand the /. effect first.
I hope that the design of the Lindows web site does not reflect the design of the OS. It was ugly, and definitely not very accessible. No alt tags even. It had problems displaying in Opera and Netscape. Of course the screenshot #1 shows them using IE to look at their site. I would too if that's the only way it looked decent.
Notice in screenshot #2 how the email shown tells of a critical security hole in XP and another SQL server? They just can't help but jab at MS a bit I suppose!
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
They are using WINE which is not GPL, but a BSD like license, that doesn't force you to lay open modifications.
--
Karma 50, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.
That was what I said when Microsoft released that
silly Windows product. Great, now PC programs
can look like they're running on a Mac. How
worthless, nobody will ever buy it!
When will we learn that duping MS products is not necessarily the best way to go?! Simply come up with better products that form the MS cashcow - namely office, visio, project, etc .. if you study what people attempt to do everyday to the level that they do you've taken the first step.
.. Just because the widgets look cooler doesn't mean that the interface is more intuitive or the apps are less of a resource hog.
.. use companies like Sun and IBM to drive the innovation that the smaller feeder companies can develop around and make all types of hardware cheap (not just intel based architectures) ..
Listen to complaints about different OS distros from the average undiscriminating user and I think you'll find that there's a wealth of intuitive knowledge about where the other OS's don't quite stack up.
If you really want to beat them i'd look to companies that can provide more of a professional element in the UI dept to make other OS's look less like university projects and more like polished tools
Personally I'm starting to think about Sol x86 (just pulled the iso's) and openoffice and what we can do there to make a better overall product
But how do you CREATE a zip file with explorer? I still haven't figured that one out.
Its too bad that it wasn't proof-read a litle better first.
i just put in
Curiously enough, Jesse Jackson Jr. (the son of Reverend Jesse Jackson Sr.) is in court now to stop another guy named Jesse Jackson from getting on the ballot. It appears this other Jesse Jackson wanted his name spelled identically.
Presumably they're not in the same party, but there's a huge potential for consumer (voter) confusion due to lack of differences in labeling.
Here's my letter. (Not as professional, I'm sure.)
Dear Michael,
I admire your attempt to create a product that combines both Windows and Linux products into one. However, you're off your rocker if you think you can beat Microsoft in court over the "Lindows" trademark. Your best immediate bet would be to change the name to "LindOS" before you get too deep into litigation. And sadly enough, even if you do win in court, Microsoft will find some way to destroy your company. Microsoft has used many techniques to stifle it's competition, such as liscensing practices to squash BeOS, but the company's most powerful weapon is FUD. If you're trying to target the "average" customer, FUD will be a brick wall in your path. Keep a low profile, and start by marketing your product to the geek market, as Linux has done. But first you'll need to convince us that your product isn't just Linux + WINE. Only a truly good product will succeed in this arena.
-- Dominic Eldridge
(Sent both via form and email.)
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
I think most likely, Lindows is another Linux distribution which is customized to look as nearly like MS Windows as possible. Applications would be chosen or adapted to fit into the MS Office niche. Games would likely not be an issue for a distro like this. Guaranteeing that abi-word, or OpenOffice can read/write all forms of MS Office documents would be the highest priority - next to ease of installation and GUI style configuration.
My guess is that any real Linux user would be offended...
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I have thought all along that MSFT had a potential trademark infingement problem. The reason: the term "Windows" is a very generic user interface term which, as we all know, refers to segments of a multi-terminal (or similar) screen. This has been true long before MSFT introduced Windows 1.0 (which was limited to tiled or non-overlapping windows). The term for windows was used in a very generic sense by Gates himself when describing the fact that Windows 2.0 supported overlapping windows (he used the term windows genericly as I recall, and is likely not too hard to find in print).
So it seems to me that all Lindows has to do is argue that "Windows" (as opposed to MS or Microsoft Windows) is not a trademarkable name to begin with, and that the term is a valid public domain term as defined by prior useage in trade literature preceding MSFT. End of suit.
Okay,
I agree that modelling is a bit of a hazzel, though Alias/Wavefront is coming out with a Linux Verson if I am not mistaken (abandoning SGI I guess).
Michael
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
OEM versions, gang! That's not what you buy off the store shelf. And he's right. In fact, the large computer manufacturer for which I worked for three long, torturous years paid about $45 for each OEM license of Windows 95/98.
-h-
And they ought to give back their changes. Still, perhaps some of them are licensed closed source, and they can't. And I guess that if they can make it work, it will be better than nothing. (Perhaps lots better, but that awaits proof.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
as another poster said, and probably most people didn t clue into or maybe read, it really *is* kde and wine.
I m running KDE and wine right now. Same KDE icons. Same wine bugs with MS Office. (look at the missing application window button next to "File" in Excel for example). Let s see them open a file in excel. Forget about it. It won t work.
I can t get to their website (slashdotted), maybe they have some explanation, but for me, Lindows is KDE and Wine...
I actually didn't know what software they are using.
I simply read they were using GPL code so I went with it.
Albeit, if they do edit GPL code... I will be the first to open a mirror site with it.
Get your Unix fortune now!
XP is supposed to encrypt all its data streams, maybe this won't pose a problem for single node software, but won't it make impossible any attempt to make Lindows interoperable with distributed Windows software.
It is by coff... er, will, alone I set my mind in motion...
If you look at the screenshots section, you'll see that Internet Explorer is running.
If I'm not mistaken, isn't it illegal to run Internet Explorer on another platform than Windows (That is, if you're trying to run the win32 version)? If so, they might as well sue them for violation of the license agreement on IE and other products that use IE...
Well, you can get the basic version for about 3000$...but I'll admit it's quite a sum if it's not for professionnal purposes.
I'll agree that, from a graphic artist's point of view, the variety of apps is not as great as it is under Windows and MacOS (though, as I've said before, GIMP rules!). However, that variety of apps won't be there until more people start to use the OS. It's the whole chicken/egg thing. Personally, it suits me fine, and for the two apps I need windows for (Illustrator and Quicken), well, there's always VMware...
It seems to me that the top priority (which is what the Lindows guys seem to be thinking) for the Linux community is to produce a comprehensive, stable and fast Wine or Wine-like windows API. Unfortunately, it's still not quite there, though it IS moving forward at quite a pace, considering the staggering amount of work it represents.
Perhaps IBM could send a few of the billion dollars it is supposed to be investing in Linux down Wine's way? Then again, if Lindows delivers on their promise, then they're sitting on a HUGE stash of gold waiting to be unearthed...
Reminder: find a new sig
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Apple sue Microsoft a few years back for stealing their look and feel? They lost and now Microsoft is suing somebody for stealing their look and feel. C'mon.
Hello, Pot? It's the kettle calling. You're black.
This product is doomed to failure; It sucks as much as windows, but has no advantages.+
So you can stop wondering, and look at the power of KDE!
h tml
http://www.stjohnsprepschool.org/~manuel/lindows.
--Manuel
"I hate quotations, tell me what you think"
>and they are guaranteed to work with _all_Windows software
There is _no_ guarante that Windows will work for any purpose what so ever (read the EULA) let alone with _all_ Windows software.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
You don't save any money. You pay them 99 bucks and what? like 189 for windows or something? Yeah you save a hundred bucks but not really when you see this bit on their site:
Because LindowsOS and Windows are on the same hard disk, you can browse and use all of your files and folders in My Documents or anywhere on your hard disk.
Now 189+99 = too much. Where is the point in this os? Install windows then install the programs you want then install lindows and run them from there. oh and make sure you like slow because thats how they run.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a linux OS properly run explorer, word etc. But let's be realistic, if it ever does work...ms will break it...observe:
The following is what will happen the day that Lindows works...
Wow! Lindows works! Yahoo!
Oh no...better put out a "security patch" on all office software and IE.
(laughter in the background).
I'll post it on the windows update site right away!
(more laughter)
What the f@ck? Why isn't office working anymore?
I don't know, ever since we downloaded that patch for office, IE isn't working either?
Haha...they'll never realize that we used that undocumented function in windows. Can't wait till someone else wants to compete!!
And so on...
"The scientist describes what is; The engineer creates what never was." - Theodore von Karman
I, for one, will pay for this provided it works reasonably well:
1) I have a need to run certain Windows Apps on a regular basis.
2) I _would_ like to have a Linux system that I don't need to boot out of (to run a web server, mail, etc.) On the other hand, I do NOT care if the windows apps crash once in a while (they already do this in their native environment).
3) I only have one machine, and don't feel like getting another one for more than $99
</luser mode>
but it's not that great either.
It's obviously KDE running Wine, with patches added to enable it to run Word and Excel (probably '97). So what you're really paying your $99 for is support and the Wine patches and the standard integration that goes into making a distribution.
Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
... or do those screenshots look a lot like a
modified version of KDE + Wine?
Are they trying to charge $99 for a copy of KDE
and wine with some minor modifications?
Sorry. I don't mean to be a troll, but I don't believe the whole Lindows hype. I have to see it to believe it. Too much over-hyped "miracle" software that failed us.
Come on Michael, change the pathetic name. If it really does what you say it does, the name won't matter.
1) There is no company called "Lindows", "Lindows, Inc", or anything like it registered with the Secretary of State of the Great State of California.
:)
2) The "lindows.com" domain is not registered to any company, but rather to a no-name PO Box is Woodside, CA. I'm not familiar with the area, but I took the liberty of running a MapQuest between those two cities and found that they're 482 miles away. Now THAT'S a commute.
3) Come on, look at the picture of Michael Robertson... isn't that an obvious parody of Steve Jobs?
Anyway, you heard this evidence here first, and ReadParse said it.
Later,
RP
The name "Lindows" is obviously a piggyback on "Linux". Afterall, it starts with the same letter! Why doesn't Linus sue? He does own the copyright, how dare he let some new product confuse potential Linux buyers? :)
Tim ODonnell (trying to be the most
> 2. they won't contribute back to GPL. They are here to make money you know.
I don't understand your point. Making money is not something which is a priori incompatible with the GPL. And anyway, the fact of distributing some GPLed code, modified or not (selling it or not doesn't make any difference) impose you to make its source code available (at least to your clients).
They can choose to ignore the GPL, but on such a sensible project it will be shortly screened ; note that their letter insist on the fact that they target "sophisticated" users.
> 2. They fail. We are all deeply fucked because evryone will laugh saying : "linux is not for the desktop", "windows is easier", etc.
How deeply fucked I will get, indeed ! Seriously, where did you get the idea that Linux's goal was "the desktop" ? There is no roadmap, the system will evolve by integrating its users' developments, as it always has.
Olivier.
Singularity stupid: stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape
Fot the record..
Xwindows was released MUCH before Windows 1.0 was out - it was on the first graphical workstations far beyond the PC got their graphics from Hercules or CGA graphics..
Hetz (Heunique)
.. or Wordstar?
Lindows could be an acronym for LINus DOes Windows Software....
Compelling apps? I don't know what you're talking about. I just installed Mandrakea this week for the first time, and now i'm running KDE, using Netscape Mail, Mozilla(farrr better than IE), GnomeICU for ICQ, GAIM for AIM, Star Office (like MS Office but 500$ less and no stupid freakin paper clip), Quake3 (natively), counter-strike (in WINE), XMMS (and Winamp 3.0 will run on linux natively), etc. etc...
I think Windows $$$ OS is what lacks compelling apps. Why pay for Windows shit if I can do it for free?
(which of course doesn't say much for Lindows 200$ os either)
I think it would serve these folks well to release a beta to developers, at somewhat less than $99. Why?
Many developers are the kind of people that want to try this because it's cool. If it only cost $50, it would be pretty easy to convince the boss that the new box we're getting anyway should run the Lindows beta instead of forking out for another Win2K license. And developers are the ones that you really want let loose on a beta for two reasons:
that this will be thought of as some sort of "generic windows" by many retail buyers? People would equate "Lindows" with those fruit loops clones you see in these large bags here in the U.S. on the bottom rows of supermarkets; an imitation brand. Sure, it may not be in actuality, but just as people know to look for the "Advil" label instead of the "Sam's Club Pills" they may see that there is no Microsoft label on the box, and dismiss it as some knock-off. Personally I couldn't tell at first glance from the screenshots that this wasn't windows, and I fear that many consumers won't either unless it changes its name, or changes the theme on the desktop a bit.
If this will run AutoCAD, MicroStation, MapInfo & ArcView well, It could save me about $150 per seat.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Windows is not "totally unstable", and especially not if all someone is doing on their $40 a month Dell is their finances. I am a full time 18 hour a day, 7 day a week multimedia developer. At any and all times I have XP Pro running Macromedia Director, Flash, Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, a dozen web browsers, Sound Editing apps, videos playing... 10 times more than any average home user. My Dell Precision hasn't crashed once the since Ive installed XP, and maybe once in the year or two I ran 2000 prior to XP. Im so sick of how "Windows is a crashing nightmare". yes, yes Win95 really was. 98 is fairly lame too, but NT/2000 and now XP is really very often, very stable. The $40/month finance-only person is about the last person that needs Lindows, but its just FUD to say "they'd benefit from a more stable OS". How many Linux users that bitch about how unstable Windows is actually use Windows everyday? Or are they just perpetuating an exaggeration?
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
It just seems so silly to keep playing these platform war games on and on. Today we basically have 3 major platforms. *nix, Windows and Mac. While there are cross platform tools for all (VirtualPC, VMWare, Basilisk, WINE) they're all trying to do the same thing. I want my mail client to run on (insert platform here) but I still want to play kick-ass games and they're only availalble on (insert platform here). ARGH!
I'm really getting sick of everyone trying to build the ultimate boat that can house every frikin' application ever made. Let's call a spade a spade and deal with reality folks. Let the user use the platform that is best for him. If he's a power user who doesn't mind there's not a lot of game support available, then pick Linux. If he needs to interoperate with other Windows boxes, choose it. If his software collection is full of Mac stuff, go for it. We're just continously shooting ourselves in the foot trying to mimic/emulate/whatever plaform a on platform b. And the results are never as good as the real thing. It's like asking VHS to play Beta tapes or something. What's the point?
True, I would like to have one single platform I can do everything on, but in all reality, I don't think that's ever going to happen. The WINE guys have done a bang-up job and deserve a huge amount of respect for what they've accomplished so far. And maybe some day WINE will run Windows based OpenGL or DirectX games perfectly, but until then, deal with the issue. I'm perfectly happy with running a dual boot setup here. This whole Lindows thing seems pretty silly. Standing on the laurels of others (WINE) and taking credit for an operating system they haven't built yet there they are claiming "Look at us, we're so innovative". So now we have Lindows doing it's thing, Transgamer doing another thing with DirectX games and WINE, WINE itself and god knows what other forks are being created everyday. Enough is enough.
Let Linux be Linux.
liB
I love this quote from the signup page--
Please enter the billing information for the $99.00 fee for your one year membership of the Lindows.com Insiders program.
Joining the Lindows.com Insiders program does not guarantee that you will receive any software to test or review
I am not required to work from home, so my employer does not need provide me with a system. I simply choose to and when I do, my boss pays me overtime. I am not bent about it, so you shouldn't be either.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power - Benito Mussoli
1. I have no problem at someone making money, even with the GPL. I was just saying that they will do whatever they can to stay closed source. See other posts about the Wine license.
2. I never said linux goal was the desktop but it better does without bad press.
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
are you implying that mice don't work under dos then?
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315
right-click in explorer, choose new->compressed folder from the menu.
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315
...before touching the desktop.
Most of these things would make any hard-boiled Linux user scream, but they are things that make a computer more accessable to the general public.
1. Case-respecting but case-insensitive filesystem: Jake Allen is not a different person than jake allen, but ROTFL.TXT will *not* become Rotfl.txt.
2. Directories that make sense. Away with the 3-letter, lazy typist names for the linux directory structures. If extfs can handle 255 char filenames then USE THEM! Or at least shove all those dirs into a System or Linux directory. It makes a computer much more intimate to the user (remember them? the USERS?).
3. A linux control panel. No user in his/her right mind wants to edit configuration files manually.
The rest of these are to make Linux a Good OS, not just another *nix.
4. Less politics. (hides behind table) The GNU GPL, while very nice for academic experimentation without fear of adverse legal actions, has little place in an OS. Open-source is good, don't get me wrong, but if Joe-I-buy-software-at-comp-usa wants to run some obscure app, most likely it's on a proprietary OS that doesn't advocate source disclosure whatsoever (to the public, at least).
5. Less elite-ism. Linux experts' reputations tend to precede them, and they aren't always positive. (ducks more flames) I've learned this by simply talking to my favorite end-user of them all: my fiancee. The expert, standoff, elite attitude of a large amount of the Linux community is a no-no when talking to joe- or jane-user.
There's more, but I think I've said enough to warrant a full mailbox of flames already.
Feel free. I'm here: dragoth@mac.com
-Andy
Microsoft announces new emoticon product ratings, gives latest Windows and Office products XP
ok, point taken. it is kde. sorry, i'm an e user. and now that u've wrestled me to the ground i may as well say something that'll make u hate me even more: i don't like kde. (not that e is hot stuff either) man, i don't even want to know what'll happen to my karma now. maybe i should hire a body-guard.
Breadhat
/. could have some kind of contest :)
Womandrake
Sooze
Californiadera
Maybe
give me a