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DVD Recording - Is There a Winner Yet?
Rob writes "Ok, so I've finally gotten my TiVo configured to let me extract and archive video, now I'm wondering what is my best solution? I currently have a CDR that I've been able to use to save both VCD and SVCD. Unfortunately I have a very old DVD player that will only play VCD's. So I decided that it's time to look at recording to DVD, but what is the right answer? Has any format won? I just got back from Fry's and I could get either -R/-RW or +R/+RW and there were even drives that did all of the formats. This is all well and good, since I'll have to buy a new DVD player to play any of them, but which format is most widely accepted? Even if I get a drive that will record in any format what do most DVD players accept? Sure I can make sure that my DVD player will play whatever format I produce but what about my parents and friends?"
All the answers to your questions have already been given on http://www.dvdrhelp.com. Not only do they detail which DVD players accept which formats, but tell you were to get the best deals on media, which formats work the best, and what dvd-r/w+r/w drives work the best.
I don't want to troll, but a simple google search would have easily answered all of your questions.
I think we'd all enjoy a nice cold beverage. -David Letterman
How was the traffic coming back from Fry's? Did they have any other DVD players you could buy? How did they look? Were they on sale? Was your dog happy to see you?
(what a big writeup for a small question)...
Wah!
DVD-R has something like 89% compatability - meaning 89% of the DVD players out there will play DVD-R. Almost ALL DVD players made after 1999 will do DVD-R. DVD+R is next with 85% compatability. Note that DVD+R offers a couple more features, but you trade off just a notch of compatability. The +/-RW formats are less compatible... modern DVD players should be able to do it. My friend bought a new DVD player which said in the instructions that it couldn't play DVD+RW, but I burned one anyway and his player was able to play it just fine.
If you are going to get a new dvd player anyway, why not just stick with svcd and cdr? DVD recorders are too expensive and the format is unsettled.
You can find more information and even user testimonials here.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
DVD-R is the only format that has been approved by the DVD Forum. It has the most hardware available for recording, and it is supported in more DVD drives and DVD players than DVD+R. DVD+R will soon fade from existance. If you want to be safe in the future and you want people to be able to read your DVDs, go with DVD-R.
You may not have to buy a new DVD player to support the single R varieties (non-rewriteable). See a store or a friend will allow you to burn a sample -R or +R to try on your existing player; they are designed to play on standard drives, even without explicit support.
"'Tis great confidence in a friend to tell him your faults, greater to tell him his." --Poor Richard's Almanac
DVD-R plays just fine in my XBox. I haven't tried the -RW discs yet. Overall, I'm pretty happy with my DVD-R/RW.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
how to use biotorrent to back up old copies of Matrix Reloaded for safe storage.
Siggy Say, Siggy Do
I would assume your best guess would be to buy a multi-dvd recorder. The new Sony I believe does it, and I think they are only going for like $300. Try www.mwave.com or www.newegg.com.
Gizmo
we have a sony dru-500ax here that burns either format (dvd+ and dvd-). it is our experience that the "dvd-r/rw" works much better than the dvd+ in off-the-shelf dvd players. i have an apex 1100 at home and it will not play the dvd+ discs (verbatim brand 2.4 speed) that i have burnt with this unit, while the dvd- (also verbatim brand 2.4 speed) discs play just fine. we also have another brand of dvd player in our break room (dont remember the brand) and it wont play them either, and its fairly new. we've also had trouble getting the dvd+ data discs to read in some of the computers we have on campus (brand new dell optiplex) while the dvd- work. maybe its just the brand of discs that we are using. hope this helps....YMMV
DVD-R seem to be the most widely playable...and Apple's DVD-R media seems to be the most reliable (and very reasonably priced) from my extensive testing at work. We ended up purchasing the Sony DVD-R/RW+R/RW drive to ensure maximum compatiblity.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
(I ended up replacing the loader in my Apex AD-600A because it wouldn't handle any burned DVDs. $35 and an RPC-1 firmware download took care of that. I use a Pioneer DVR-105 in a FireWire case; it gets shared between two computers at home and one at work.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
I've read that in terms of compatibility with consumer dvd players, the Pioner DVR-A05 is the way to go. If you're concerned about format, I'm pretty sure Sony and HP both make recorders that handle all four.
...record in BetaMax!
I know you want to go out and get that dvd burner now , but if you can get by with your (s)vcds for another year or so the blue laser dvd burners which store a little over 24 gigabytes will probably be about the same price as the current dvd burners. However, if you can't wait (and I don't blame you I want one too), I would by one of the Sony burners that supports all of the formats, they cost a little more though. After you get it installed and have a new dvd player you can try recording in different formats to see what your or friends or families dvd players like best and burn your dvds accordingly.
If your existing player works be happy, but if you are not willing to buy a new compatible player, forget about it, return the DVD burner and stick with VCD & SVCD.
Its very hit and miss for all DVD+R DVD-R DVD-RW & DVD+RW. I've found two occasions where two instances of nominally the same model player ( JVC, Sharp) DVD-R played perfectly on one and glitched badly on the other.
The "format war" is a distraction to cover the fact that the DVD industry sold out to Hollywood and changed the laser wavelength for burned disks and this makes compatability of "old" players designed to the DVD Forum's specs a crap
shoot when it comes to playing burned disks.
Before adopting WHATWG, read the moonlight.NET EULA [http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/moonlight.mspx]
Check out www.techbargains.com until you find a good deal on a Pioneer A05 DVD-R/-RW drive or get one of the new dual mode units from AOpen, Plextor, etc. Prices are dropping. I paid $149 for an A05 about 6 months ago and it does a fine job.
Cheers
He meant it won't play SVCDs.
here's what you do
1. ditch the dvd idea
2. buy a relatively cheap pc, or if you're crafty, convert an xbox.
3. put a big harddrive in it
4. connect svideo out of computer into video 1 on tv or equivalent.
5. visit doom9.org. and buy dixv pro codec
6. convert tivo format to divx.
7. you're done
I own that drive and it died in less than a month the first time, now it won't read the +R media IT WRITES. The +R will read in any other drive that I have, just not the drive that wrote it.
The biggest problem I had was with Sony Tech Support. It took me 4 hours to get an RMA to return the drive. They refused to help me at first because the drive wasn't hooked up as the master on the SECOND IDE controller. It was hooked up as the master on the first IDE controler (My MOBO has 2 IDE, plus a RAID controller which the HD's run off of).
Trying to explain to them that it didn't make a damn bit of difference which controller it was on made ZERO difference to them.
I also spent half that time on hold waiting to talk to someone.
If I had to do it over, I would go with probably the Pioneer drive.
I also prefer the -R media because it's cheaper and my Home DVD player can read them.
Visit the Arcade Restoration Workshop @ http://www.arcaderestoration.com
Hey Rosco,
I think he meant that his DVD player wouldn't play SVCDs. It plays VCDs and DVDs, so he's looking into a DVD burner for more and higher quality video per disc.
Let's think a little before we post. I suspect you weren't actually intending to troll.
--
The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.
No; not even remotely, and I don't know why people keep harping on about it. Could you play a VHS recorded tape in a Beta player? Of course not. Can you play both DVD-R and DVD+R discs in a standard DVD player? 85% of the time, yes. So, there is no comparison; nothing to see; move right along. The only relevance is in this debate is the type of media you buy; not the playback. Its not an issue.
No, it's not the same. Sony lost the betamax format because they wouldn't allow other OEMs to make compatible hardware. Too bad, too, because it has better resolution and the tapes are smaller. But Sony has always wanted to be a monopoly like Microsoft, and they're still working on it.
that was due to a glitch in the Matrix. Someone has opened a second door for copyright violations.
Siggy Say, Siggy Do
I'm sure he meant that it won't play SVCD's in addition to VCD's and standard DVD's.
Huh? WTF does the media type have to do with what types of data you can record to it? I have plenty of VBR MPEG-2 video that I've burned to DVD-R.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
I believe I heard on Macrumors.com that Apple is changing their Superdrives with ones that burn the +/- R/RW formats, in order to be more compatible with everything out there.
And if you are going to pirate these DVD's, make sure you have a DVD decryptor program and DVD2One, so you can make full copies onto a single DVD (since most DVD movies out there are dual-sided and would take up 2 disks).
"Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. What will you fight for? One day, you will see."
No, he's saying that his DVD player can only play VCD's and not SVCD's. I don't know of any CD Players that can play VCD's or SVCD's, do you? Most CD players I've seen only play music CD's.
Um, what? Where? How do you define "decent"?
Forget the whales - save the babies.
Is there such thing as a very old DVD player?
I realize that TiVo does not come stock with the ability to copy your recorded programs to your PC's hard disk (and then onto DVD), but I find it far fetched to claim that it would be illegal to make permanent copies of things you recorded to your TiVo legally. There are even DVD recorders coming out that have built in hard drives to do exactly that, (although without the full TiVo software). This is not at all analogous to bittorrenting movies off the internet.
Ummmm.. VBR encoding has nothing to do with the media. VBR has to do with the software that encoded the video.
VBR encoded DVD compliant MPEG2 streams burn just fine DVD-R/W drives. (like a Superdrive)
i have a sony dru-500A, a pioneer A04, and the ever so worthless hp dvd +r drive.
here is the basic line if you want compatability there is no choice but a -r -rw drive. i recently took a pair of home video disc i had burnt and a *cough* full *cough* copy of the dvd disc hackers. at 2 electronics stores i tested the disc's out in over 80 different dvd players. computer, home, integrated, car....
the +r disc worked in 6 drives and they were the brand new sonys that listed +r compatability. the -rw disc worked oddly in every single cheap player and the more expensive sony's. the -R disc worked in every single player.
curently from a number of internet sites dvd -r blanks can be found for ~80 cents (usd), i still havent found a single source of +r blanks for less than ~4.00 each.
curently tiger direct and a number of other sites are selling dvd-r, -rw drives that also act as cd burners for less than $160. including software and a 1 year warenty. (panasonic)
i very much think the +r standard is dying
as for drives the pioneer A05 is nice but the sony DRU-500A is a superior drive and well worth the $300 it costs. i think at last count i'm up to ~900 burnt dvd-r's and no coasters.
When are the divx and xvid players coming out?
Putting mp3 abilities on many recent electronics devices was a wonderful idea. I just wondering why DVD players do not support these formats yet.
Heck, doesn't some DVD players even accept Microsoft video files?
Davak
...which is the entity that defines the DVD Format specifications, publishes reference materials, creates DVD Format books, administers the DVD Verification Laboratories, and licenses the familiar DVD logo:
"Please note that the "+RW" format, also known as DVD+RW was neither developed nor approved by the DVD Forum. The approved recordable formats are DVD-R, DVD-RW and DVD-RAM."
Technically, DVD+RW aren't even DVDs, since, in order to be a DVD, it must be approved by the DVD Forum. The +RW alliance, will have you believe otherwise; that they don't have to follow any standards and that the DVD Forum means nothing.
DVD+RW's biggest "benefit" over -RW is that it allows for packet writing - therefore allowing it to be treated like a normal writable volume, having files added to or deleted from it at will, and doesn't require closing the disc. The drawback is that a bunch of companies went out and did this on their own, and DVD+RW is the least compatible format with consumer DVD players. Of course, manufacturers - particularly those a part of this "alliance" - have buckled to provide support for it. A somewhat backwards approach, if you as me. In any case, in the days of cheap 200GB+ drives, I'm not sure why you'd want to use a really slow recordable optical format that holds a comparatively scant amount of data as a writeable volume...after all, DVD-R/RW can hold data as well, just not via packet writing methods.
Many manufacturers are providing DVD-R/RW/+RW drives now, so I imagine this point will be moot.
Go for a dual format drive... The DRU-500AX or DW-U10A (OEM version of the 500) will do DVD+/-R/RWs. I've got a Ikebana dual format dvd burner, which is the DW-U10A rebaged. I flashed it with a modified firmware and now it's just like the DW-U10a, and I can even use the same firmware. This is a drive to look out for... (I got it for 220 after $50 MIR, you can find the DW-U10A for a little under 300 shipped)
It's the difference between using the drive as a computer storage disc and using a DVD-R/W component to record video.
Whats Beta ?, Whats a Video Cassette Player ?....I can't get my damn DVD to record TV shows
DVD-R/RW is backed by the DVD Forum, as well as a long list of hardware manufacturers. A few months ago, this would have given this format the edge. Microsoft, however, has recently thrown its weight into the +R/RW camp along with the many hardware manufacturers which were already supporting it. This sort of evens things out.
I assume the reason MS decided to back +R/RW is because of its ability to provide lossless linking in the recording mode that is the most compatable with video DVD players. This feature allows realtime streaming of low bitrate MPEG directly to video-compatable DVD which is something MS probably figures many consumers will want to do.
The fact that both formats have strong backing probably means that we will have to live with both formats for longer than we previously thought unless one camp or the other suddenly backs down, which is unlikely.
As for me, I have a +R/RW, and am so far very happy with it. It is well supported in Linux through the growisofs utility, and I haven't had any problem with compatability of the +R media in video DVD players.
The growisofs webpage mentioned above has a good technical discussion of the lossless linking issue and why this is supposedly an advantage for +R/RW (look near the bottom of the page), although I personally don't do realtime MPEG streaming to DVD.
I'm pretty sure it's just an encoder thing, not a writable disc format thing.
With all the copious storage space, backups have to go somewhere. And have you priced DVD-Rs? Aye yai yai.
A rewritable DVD that allows for deletion? Sounds perfect for backups with a occasionally full-dump to a fresh DVD.
For making DVDs to play on a hardware player: They both work fine. +R and -R both work fine in most DVD players, and virtually all new DVD players.
On a computer: DVD+R has some advantages when used on a computer (it closes sessions much faster), so if you're packet-writing disks, it helps.
The main differences you'll see are media costs. Do your research to know what you'll pay per disc. I use a -R. My main motivation was cheaper media. The gap seems to have closed a lot since we got it, though.
I was a very early adopter of CD-R with sony's first CD-R drive at 2K$us back then when the CDs were over 20$ a pop.... I was always satisfied with the writer and never in my mind the doubt of "losing data" before 10 years really triggered....
;)
With the pioneer, I went along the logic that they were the first to introduce a "end user" DVD-R unit (at 10K$ back then) so I thought that at the A04 revision it would be a winner... God I was wrogn, that unit pissed me off so much, first, the firmware issues, passing from 1.20 to upwards; you couldn't revert back to older firmware because pioneer locked the firmware with a key, you couldn't put cheap disks into it anymore, and the worst was the princo RW would never record correctly or freeze the drive off and I had to do some weird "leave the cd in while resetting the unit, boot windows, use dvddecrypt in debug and reinit + full erase RW" to recuperate the disk. Anyways, of course if you would use 5x more expensive medias you'd have less problems, but at that price point it was defeating the reason why I bought a DVD-R in the first place ($/megs/reliability). Nightmare aside, what pissed me off the most is when I started seeing reports of DVD failing after a short amount of time, even commercial grade one. Dunno if other people here will post more specifically about that subject but it got me worried to a point where I use cheap medias, and only use my drive as "second layer backup" for the time being and when I have something critical to put on disk I go out and shell more for a brand-name disc, which I find is way overpriced. Of course if you burn 2x on a 1x media with an hacked firmware, you're asking for trouble, but this isn't my case, I always burn at 1X to put every chances on my side.
Drives are comming down in price, which is a good thing, newer models have both +R and -R support so that stupid (very stupid) compatibility thing shouldn't be a problem anymore unless you run into firmware issues like I did. Even if you buy something cheap, READ the forums, read the firmware discussion groups, and like when buying a motherboard to build a server for example, ALWAYS read the tech support forums of the company or "unofficial supports" sites before making a decision if you are planning on using your device for stuff you'd want to keep for a while. This is where I failed, I took the pioneer brand for granted... I can tell you there are a buttload of unhappy customers with the A04 model, A05 came out shortly after with 4x support which was even more upsetting because it wasn't announced a decent time before the release (I would have waited). Now the A06 has dual support (+/- R/RW) But I'd go Sony or even LG before going back to pioneer, the tech support was lame and that firmware issue had ABSOLUTELY no justification, locking a firmware to not be downgradable and introducing support only for your DVD-Rs (1.20->1.31) as a feature is simply disgusting.
As for a standard... it's hard to tell, since all drives manufacturers seems to go for Dual-mode drives, the fight will probably stay there until the next leap happen (like those 20+GB dvds with backward compatibility, maybe they will limit it to 1 standard). The reason I chose -R over +R is because they were 2-3 years LATE into delivering the product from the "supposed launch date", I was planning on working with that about a year after the supposed launch date, 2 years after I was still waiting and I was really upset so I went the other way, and still got screwed a bit
Oh and a good source for firmware discussion/problems for most drives Firmware Page
They were really helpful into hacking that damn device and firmware so that I could downgrade it.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
I think it's just for the component machines, but it's a big difference.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Just a small note, if anyone cares - Only the the recent model PS2's will play DVD+R. Go with DVD-R's if this is an issue.
I believe this is appropriate.
In the unlikely event that your ISP block access to all sites except Slashdot (which would explain why you decided to come here instead of to a DVD- or video-oriented site), here's the deal:
DVD-R has the best compatibility, closely followed by DVD+R. The RW formats are far less compatible. Media quality and authoring software also have an influence on compatibility. Best results are achieved with DVDs authored in professional or semi-professional software (ex., DVD Maestro, Reel DVD, DVD Studio Pro, etc.), recorded on brand-name DVD-R media (Maxell is pretty good) at the lowest speed. Also, always create a disc image, or burn with a program that is capable of correctly structuring the title set folders (ex., PrimoDVD). Data burning programs (ex., Nero) will sometimes create discs that do not play on set-top players.
Under these conditions you can expect the disc to play on about 80% of current models (some models dont play recordable discs at all). DVD+R will play on about 75% of players, and the RW formats will play in around 20% of players. For data, DVD+RW is the most versatile format.
RMN
~~~
Sounds like yet another reason to buy a DVD burner (that goes in your computer) instead of a DVD recorder (that plugs into your A/V stack). I'm fairly sure the topic at hand is DVD burners, though. (Just as I used a CD burner mainly to make SVCDs, the output from my DVD burner is more DVD-Video than DVD-ROM...source material for both is mostly ripped from my TiVo and reencoded to work with the destination format.)
It's also helpful that DVD burners only run $200-$300, while DVD recorders still run 2-3x that (or more).
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Regards,
proclus
http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
Here has been my experince with DVD+Rs. I bought my first DVD+R about a year ago because it was $250. That was anywhere from 50 to a 100 bucks cheaper than anything else out there. When it got fried, along with the rest of the computer, I started looking for a replacement. The one thing that I started noticing was that all the major players where fielding DVD+Rs now. TDK, Plextor and a few others where making DVD+R and nobody seemed to be shipping DVD-R with thier shit.
Now I will admit that my research may have been bias because I had about 100 blank DVD+R laying around. Another thing that I noticed was that they local BestBuy and Compusa seem to be stocking more DVD+R than DVD-R. This was both writers and media. This as lead me to think that DVD+R is what people are buying. I think that DVD+R has won whatever DVD battle there is.
On compatablity issues there is only one DVD player that I've noticed can't play DVD+R and that was in a Compqa laptop. This Sony Vaio doesn't have any problems and neather does my PS2 nor any DVD player I've tried.
Oh and if your going to pirate movies Pinnacle has this great software called Instant Copy that will make great copies of DVD movies. It does everything but rip and burn for you. Will automaticlly re-encode a DVD-9 to DVD-5 with better quality than a (S)VCD. Not that I would encourage you to pirate movies that is.
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
No, it's not the same. Sony lost the betamax format because they wouldn't allow other OEMs to make compatible hardware. Too bad, too, because it has better resolution and the tapes are smaller. But Sony has always wanted to be a monopoly like Microsoft, and they're still working on it.
Isn't that largely considered to be urban legend / spin nowadays? At the time the "war" was fought, Beta wasn't offering 2 hour recording time for consumer machines. Two cassettes worth 5% quality or so?
All sorts of hacks, manufacturer links, FAQs, etc.
If you can stand it, get an Apex player. There's a hack to remove macrovision on some units (check google) and they play MP3's, JPEGS, and anything else under the sun. I did have a problem playing DVD-RW, but DVD-R works great.
I think you got robbed. ;-)
Seriously, -R is the most compatible for current DVD players and +RW is the least (excepting, of course, DVD-RAM). But your best bet is to visit vcdhelp and see what your DVD player (and those of your family and friends) supports.
That web site also has a ton of tutorials on the authoring and burning process.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
True, but, if there are people out there with DVD-R/W component recorders that can't do VBR, that means you, with your computer DVD-R/W drive may have to put up with them.
I'd just rather go with the +, methinks.
A moot point - the + drives seem to be taking over lately, and at a pretty fast clip, too. Even Apple has slipped combo +/- drives into their machines (although they haven't 'officially' mentioned this, or enabled the + functionality, as far as I know).
Why not just stick with SVCDs for now and see what the market bears?
Paizurishitetai desu ka?
I've tried google, and mostly I just get the sites trying to sell me modded systems, or descriptions of DVD *players* that will do what I want but don't record.
Really now, this is slashdot. If we all went amish the world would be deforested just from making wooden keyboards!!! Not to mention the PETA outcries from all the kittens and puppies press-ganged into slave labor on treadmills to power our access points and servers. Think of the fire-hazard a proper slashdotting would present to a wooden web server!!!
If your priority is for Video that you can share with friends and family, my experience is that DVD-R is the more compatible format. That doesn't mean it's without flaws, though. At least in this part of the world (Australia), both formats seem to be equally available, but a lot of the -R media is still 1x speed. At least with +R you'll get a minimum of 2.4x write times.
The advantage of the +R format is allegedly better support in future versions of Windows, and packet writing ability for the +RW formats.
Given that there are quite a few drives that can write both media, I'd say get one of those. Also, if you havea DVD-ROM drive in your computer, it's worth checking the compatibility of that as well.
You play Video CDs in standard CD players?
Sure, why not ? VCDs are normal CDs with VCD files on it.
Wow. I didn't know a CD player could decode MPEG-1 video! And where do you plug in the video-out cable? My CD players all only have audio out!
I'm talking about software decoding. MTV or kplayer do that very well. The audio comes out of the regular soundcard.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
while it's certainly no fun waiting for a format war to end, it's also no fun having to burn separate dvd's for use on separate dvd players. we all know that the ideal solution would be to have one format, across the board, and for that format to be the one which proves technically superior.
multiformat drives may actually be a bad thing in the long run, because they "cement-in" two competing formats instead of waiting for one to die out.
it looked like +RW might triumph when microsoft threw its weight behind the standard originally. i figured MS would use its monopolistic tactics to drive the other standard out and that would be that. then compatibility would be 100% and we could all enjoy the benefits of +RW's extended features.
unfortunately, MS backtracked and is now supporting all the different formats in Longhorn.
Except Rob is the questioneer and Cliff posted the story...
Put up with what? What bearing does someone else's hardware have on the capabilities of the equipment I'm using?
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
I saw that same model for $50 not too long ago.
I believe he's talking about a CD player in his computer, not a rack component.
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
DVDShrink is the best at making backups of dvd9's (to dvd5 aka dvd+/-r) of what I've used. I haven't used DVD2One but if you don't feel like paying for it (or downloading a crack), dvdshrink is the way to go. It usually takes less than an hour to convert an entire dvd-9 (say 7gb or so) to a 4.3gb dvd-r. Then just burn with nero (as a UDF 1.02 DVD-R) and voila, there's your copy. The 1.02 part of UDF is important, as it provides the most backward compatibility with older players.
I am using a Toshiba (I think) SD-5002 or something like that and it has work flawlessly for sometime now. The only thing I have noticed is that the media matters. My laptop has a hard time with some of the "backed-up" DVDs that I have burned onto the cheaper media ($1 each) and no problem with the good media. Same goes for PS2s with modchips :)
The dingo ate my sig.
Actually that is a lot of spin, but for the purposes that I've ever seen betamax used (digital sound recording, using a converter), VHS would not work as well... if at all. So, the signal difference mattered in this case.
For the masses, there was probably little difference in viewing except for the length of the recording time (in which VHS clearly won). But for the few home theaters in existence 20 years ago, there probably would've been a noticable difference between the formats.
Ever watch a VHS on a home theater? ugh. Even DVD artifacting (especially on poor recordings) is noticable.
What drive did you use in your Apex? Mine has issues with certain dvds. They either skip or have a ton of artifacts until you open/close the drive a few times. I'd love to upgrade it.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
I've said this on every DVD-related topic that I've replied to, but I'll say it again: The quality of the media that you get is the most important factor. Particularly for DVDs, it seems that some of the new exotic high-speed media has to have a firmware revision that includes specific media manufacturer support (e.g. Verbatim 4x DVD+RW). The brands that I recommend to my clients for all writable media, CD and DVD, are Verbatim, TDK, and Mitsui (and their badge-engineered equivalents), in no particular order. The Mitsui Gold Archive standard are rated at something ridiculous like 200 years useful life. Everything else is of questionable quality and compatibility. Now, while you may not get or need that much mileage until the next greatest thing, some of the cheaper media (e.g. Ritek) can go on you like crazy, sometimes in under a year. To me, if I'm going to go through the trouble of "backing up" my DVDs, storing my Ogg/MP3 files, or archiving source material for video editing, I'm going to use something that does the job right the first time, not something that I have to worry about dying on me in 2-3 years time. The advantage in cost over a spindle is miniscule compared to potential complete data loss. And I have blanks (Kao CD-Rs come to mind) that have totally died on me that have never even been opened. If I get at least 20-30 years with average abuse, I'll do it. Or I can put my most prized data, movies and music onto DVDs and store them in a safe deposit box at the bank where they likely will last much longer. I know that there are folks who like DVD+R, but DVD-R is the standard. Just because more DVD+R drives have appeared right now means nothing. Just because Microsoft supports DVD+ standards means nothing. What counts is maximum compatibility, and DVD-R is that beast. It's not the most modern or sexy, but if you have a corporate training video or are duplicating your wedding video for friends, DVD-R is the choice you should make.
DVD+R is the one approved by Sony
DVD+R/+RW is better technically
So was Betamax, but all you hear about it now is because of the legal precedent.
At the office, we've got 3 Pioneer A04's & A05's, a Mac with a Superdrive (an A04 in a different casing), and the new Sony dual format drive. That's 5 "-" drives, and one of them does "+".
Methinks there's a defacto standard.
If there are two formats, manufacturers make twice as much money for a while.
Works for me. I use the packet writing feature alot. No problems as of yet when archiving data.
This allows svcd to play on a lot of players that normally don't work with svcd. Basically you demux/remux the file and change the header to vcd but retain the svcd quality. Look on vcdhelp.com for instructions. It's easily done in tmpgenc.net. But besides file storage, I'm not really excited about dvd video storage. MPEG2 is just too big. Think about this, commerical dual layer discs are 9 gigs. Single layer dvd r is roughly 4.5. At dvd compliant formats thats only about an hour of video. Never mind it takes forever to encode. So I encode this massive 4.5 gig beast of a file for 1 lousy hour? No thanks, I'm more excited about mpeg4 players, if they ever get off the ground.
What Rob wants to know -- and what I want to know -- is which format is outselling the other, not which one /.'er X prefers and which one Y has heard has more problems than the other, and not even the rumor that a certain fruity computer company is leaning toward dvd-r (or is it dvd+r, who cares?)
dvdrhelp is a nice site, but they only tell you how many recorder models do one or the other or both and how many dvd player models play one or the other or both. What we want to know is: is one recorder format outselling the other by, say, 5 to 1, because then the war is over and hang the minute technical details. You can't find this out by Googling, unless there is some secret search-term combination; I've tried.
The sales data seems to be as closely held as the crown jewels. Isn't there some industry insider reading this who will post some facts, perhaps as Anonymous Coward?
And curse Sony for starting this whole format war in the first place!
>DVD+R/+RW is better technically, and doesn't require different discs for different purposes.
Sure DVD+R/+RW doesn't require different discs for different purposes... so long as you stick with DVD+R or DVD+RW. If that was your point, you had no point.
DVD-R/-RW doesn't require "different discs for different purposes" EITHER.
Or were you referring to the niche "DVD Authoring" format? This is irrelivent/FUD for 99.9999999% of DVD recorder owners, since DVD Authoring is a special authoring format not supported outside its small, vertical market.
I suppose in one sense tho that makes DVD-R/-RW "more complicated" than DVD+R/+RW... because there is *no* authoring format for the "+" writers. Sure, you can save some encoded files to DVD+RW... (and probably not proof it in your DVD player unless you just got a DVD player this year... then MAYBE). What your service provider will do is copy your DVD+RW onto a DVD-R Authoring disc because that is the master.
Personally, most people won't consider the advantage of being able to master on DVD-R(A) a negative... most people won't care actually. They just want their movies to work on Uncle Bob's DVD player, puchased 3 years ago... it ain't gonna work with DVD+RW.
I work at a public access tv station, and we're settled on the -R format. That's not to say its the best format, but just about every NLE vendor I've looked at includes a Pioneer A05 DVD-R/-RW as the DVD burner of choice.
That didn't stop our Executive Director from buying a spindal of +R disks for it though.
CitrusTV (http://www.citrustv.net): the Nation's Oldest & Largest Entirely Student-Run Television Station
How do you extract shows from the tivo?? I'd like to get all my Babylon 5: Crusades off, without sacraficing quality to VHS.
Thanks,
Corey
You'd have to put up with receiving a disc that won't hold as much as a +R/W disc, that's what you'd have to put up with. If you don't ever get discs from anyone else recorded on a component -R/W drive, then obviously it's not a worry.
Just forget about it.
Great combination. The Sony DRU500 burns to all DVD media (except -RAM), and the Panasonic S35 reads all media (incl. -RAM).
Only irritating drawback is the ripping speed of the Sony (2.1 max on pre-recorded media). If you do alot of ripping get a DVD-ROM unit for ripping, leave the Sony to burn, and the S35 to play on your home theatre.
I have recommended -R drives because that's what Apple have been shipping in their Macs. I figure that there should be enough of a user-base out there that I'll be able to get blanks and drives for at least 5 years (and at that stage +R was still a bit of an orphan).
We've noticed problems with some older drives, but AFAIK, that'll be a *potential* problem with any drive that pre-dates the +R or -R standards.
Can anyone find figures on sales of drives and media for the two formats? I have found plenty of heat, but little light.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
The new 4th generation DVD-RAM drives can do:
- DVD-RAM
- DVD-R(G)
- DVD-R/W
Remember that DVD-RAM is the only standard that is reliable for backups, the only one with (optional) data verification, the only one with long life cycles for constant use (100,000 records vs 100-1000 for DVD-/+R/W).
DVD-R is most compatible, and for now, cheapest. You can buy bulk media for around $1.10 including the case from places like www.shop4tech.com. The Sony DRU-500A is the best drive to get, it burns all formats, so you're not locked in. DVD-Shrink is an excellent free program for backing up Dual Layer DVD's that exceed 4.38 gb. I used DVD Decrypter (also Free) and Veritas Backup Now (comes with the Sony drive) to backup movies that are smaller. I've used Nero, but found that it is somehow formatting my backups differently than other software, so those backups have not been compatible in my 3 different players (work in the Apex cheapo, not in the Sony or Toshiba). Those made with Backup Now work in all. As for compatibility, with good DVD players under $100, and cheapos in the $30s, go with what you want. The way you backup your DVDs is going to have much more of an effect than what you play them in. My two cents
KVCD
There is a surprising range of quantity AND quality provided by this tweak of MPEG1 (and MPEG2 if you wish).
There are some samples here. Burn as non-standard VCD in Nero and try them out on your DVD player.
In order to make this past Christmas a successful one, I wanted to make sure that the "special edition" DVDs I was making for family members were as compatible as possible.
After extensive reading, some experimenting and some real-life experience (both successful and less-than) I can say the following:
A DVD-R burned on high quality media (e.g. 2X Maxell - this brand has the best compatibility that I have read about and personally experienced) in the proper DVD spec (I stick with 1.0 or 1.1) will work on MOST players, including at least one "first generation" Pioneer set-top player.
In my experience, after testing various conditions on a number of set-top players, it is the media that makes the most difference in compatibility rather than anything else. As long as your MPEG video stream is spec (or corrected) and your audio is also at spec I think you'll be good to go.
BTW I do all this via BSD (Mac OS X) and Linux (TiVo) over a WLAN.
I've poked at Apple's DVD compatibility page, but that seems oriented towards players that will accept discs made by the drive Apple is putting on their new computers; I can't find an authoritative source on what drives will work well with older Macs, but have heard horror stories about drives not working in hardware similar to my Mac.
Has anyone upgraded their "vintage" Mac to DVD+/-R/RW/whatever? How did it go? What problems did you find? Where were the good deals on workable drives? I've seen generic rebranded Pioneer drives as low as $180 (Apple's superdrive also seems to be a rebranded Pioneer, so this is encouraging), but I'm not opposed to paying a little more for reliable compatibility if the no-name ones could be problematic.
Thanks :-)
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
In soviet in russia -------> mother of the fucker, it fails you!!!
Wild guess here.. someone bought himself a DVD+R drive and is offended at the very suggestion that maybe he didn't make the right choice?
Yes, DVD-R will win, but this isn't like VHS and Beta. DVD players will read both formats so it's not like you have to go out and buy a -R anytime soon, as long as they keep making media. And they will keep making media for a long time, at least until all current +R and -R drives are obsolete anyway.
They just want their movies to work on Uncle Bob's DVD player, puchased 3 years ago... it ain't gonna work with DVD+RW.
This just plain isn't true. If you browse through sites like dvdrhelp.com, which I did recently, you will find two things: 1) the user reports of compatability vary considerably even within the same DVD player model, and 2) if you average the results (which you must do because there is so much "noise" in them), there is very little difference between the two formats in terms of compatability. If one is better than the other, it is by only a few percentage points at most.
I have played +R disks in many players made during the last 5 years, and have not had any problems. The surface reflectivities of the two types of disk are very similar, and a player which is physically capable of playing a -R will almost always play a +R, at least in my experience. Some players might refuse to play a disk which is tagged as a +R, but there are utilities available which will let you change the so-called "book type" field to get around this problem.
I agree that end users will not have any issue with the two types of DVD-R/RW, but there is one difference that probably will make a difference to some consumers. DVD+R/RW is capable of recording with lossless linking in the mode which is the most compatable with video DVD players (see this page (near the bottom) for a technical description of this issue). What this feature means is that with +R/RW, you can stream variable bitrate MPEG directly to the DVD and have the resulting disk be more compatable with video DVD players than with -R/RW, which wasn't designed with this in mind. My hunch is that this is one of the reasons M$ has decided to put its weight behind +R/RW (along with the Mt. Rainier stuff).
The bottom line is that for all users who don't need to stream MPEG directly to the DVD (which probably includes most Linux users), there is very little practical difference between the formats. Both formats have the support of some heavy hitters and neither one is likely to go away anytime soon.
Is anyone out there burning DVD's under Linux of FreeBSD? If so I'd like to hear about the hardware and software you are using.
The units out there today (as of May 23rd), will do reportedly DVD-R.
However, the new unit being released early June will play both (also will have built in ethernet as well).
I ordered a new PS2 primarily because of the apparently common failure where it won't read one color disk type (silver/gold/black).
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Which software were you using to export video from the Tivo. Everything I've used has had terrible audio/video sync problems....
DVD+R/W has some big supporters behind it, although the discs are about twice the costs of -R/W discs. If you're curious if it will work in your player, you might check out the Compatibility List at dvdrhelp.com. It's also a good place to find out which player to buy.
My votes go to the Koss KD305 available for $49.99 at Sears (plus option $7 service plan, unlike $30 at Best Buy) or the Norcent DP300 which is $39.99 at Amazon ($49.99 at Walmart). Both play darn near anything you can throw at them, and they're CHEAP!
I own the Koss 305 and simply love it.
Yes I have used Windows - and Windows is better! Better performance, better compatibility, better drivers, better everything.
Free alternatives are popular because either:
1) You get them for free and aren't willing or able to pay for something as important as an OS for your own computer.
2) You have jumped on the IBM/Sun/Oracle led, "Microsoft is bad" bandwagon with the other hippies. Funny how it's Microsoft's competitors leading the way. You sheep.
3) All of the above.
So there.
No it's not a troll, it's how I really feel.
Every player is different. Check out this site for you current hardware befor buying anything. My Apex-600a does great with SVCD's made from my dTivo and plays DVD+R ok, but not RW material.
http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.php
I suppose in one sense tho that makes DVD-R/-RW "more complicated" than DVD+R/+RW... because there is *no* authoring format for the "+" writers. Sure, you can save some encoded files to DVD+RW... (and probably not proof it in your DVD player unless you just got a DVD player this year... then MAYBE). What your service provider will do is copy your DVD+RW onto a DVD-R Authoring disc because that is the master.
I have yet to find a dvd player actually that won't play the dvd movies I make on my DVD+RW drive. Two of them are over 3 years old too - one is a Apex AD660A and the other is a Sony Playstation 2.
I'm waiting for the crystal storage so I can back up my terabyte of mp3's -or better yet why bother compressing files when you have terabyte storage.
+R better win because that's what I bought and I want to be able to say "I told you so"
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
DVD+R discs can be had for as little as $1.58 if you know where to shop.
+R is supported by a LOT more companies than -R. So much for dying...
You wern't suppose to tell us what step two is.
Now you've gon and spoiled it for everyone!
Who is this "Poster" guy and why does he own all of my comments?!?
How long have DVD's been around?
..."Moire" patterns on the CD's. Now one might think they could
You've heard about the crippled DVD's that self-destruct after
some number of years -- it's worse....I've gotten "new" DVD's
that have had the same trouble -- it's almost always visible
on the DVD when I've seen it. Normal DVD's -- you see the fine
lines all the way around all looks fine. But decaying DVD's have
what appear to be interference patterns that look sorta like what
you might see if you put pressure on an LCD display or some of
those old mood pad -- almost like a very fine geographical
topology map -- except that the topology lines shift in the light --
the run at odd angles and maybe look like a sinewave pattern or
like someone spilled a liquid inside the DVD and and dried.
I ordered 2 CD sets, a 2nd season Buffy and a 1st copy Terminator
both 'new' but from independents off of amazon. The 2nd
season buffy was most obvious -- it was only some of the CD's that
had the patterns and it was those CD's that were unreadable or
would lock up and/or skip large segments. Both the sellers said
send the sets back at my expense and they'd replace...I keep thinking
I'll get to it...but it's been more than 30 days with both...its
not even the sellers fault -- they are faulty CD's and should be
replaced by the manufacturer -- they aren't scratched. They just have
these
be something to do with dual layer, but when you have multiple
CD's of a 12 CD set and only 2 of them have the problem and they are
the only two with noticable moire patterns, you begin to suspect
a problem.
Was talking to an "artist" who honestly felt that your media should
decay and not last and you should be forced to repay the artist to
buy new media every once in a while. Good thing Michelangelo didn't
feel that way about the Sistine Chapel...among others...this mixed
with the MS subscription model where you can listen to music, but
you lose access to all your downloaded music if you don't stay
current on your subscription fees....it all points to trying to
eliminate the ability of average peons (us) to own 'capital' goods that
are worth anything while increasing the value of the 'capital'
goods that the media conglomerates own (or will own forever given
current copyright extension trends)....
I'd be real real wary of thinking a technology that is having problems
in it's first decade of life with random decay being able to reliably
provide any long term storage solution. Perhaps 1 layer CD's burned
into non-oxidizing metal...but plastics? Have you ever looked at the
plastics around all the cheap florescent light replacements? brittle
and yellow in under a year. Would seem to indicate high UV or ozone
damage or both!....(likely UV) --- I'm guessing many of the cheap
florescents on the market these days are putting out a substantial
amount of UV light to cause the plastic to decay that quickly. The
higher the wattage, the worse the decay. I had 1 300Watt equivalent
UV destroy the plastic separators between the cylinders in under
a month of use.
Anyay....long term storage...maybe print technology on acid free
paper with future OCR tech....?
-l
I can imagine a future where we will all communicate to other people via a mechanical box touted as a great new wonder.
Yeah, and I could imagine a giant mechanical forum where current issues are posted and ignored under the flood of goatse.cs links, karma grabs and obvious trolls while its users slowly waste away on diets of caffeine and UV radiation.
What a sad, sad world that'd be.
By reading this comment, you immediately waive any and all rights regarding it.
Hi,
I had the chance to try almost every format on my Xbox.
I have most of my stuff in DVD-Rs and works perfect. I keep some game-packs with smaller games on DVD-RW's and they also work perfect (even better than DVD-Rs).
A friend of mine gave me some HP DVD+Rs and they also worked.
The only thing missing is a DVD+RW, but I'll get to that soon.
Cheers.
What is the god damned difference between '+' and '-' and how will it affect my life?
(yes, I could probably ask google but I'm not asking him).
Check out the next couple of weeks: http://www.divxplayer.nl/?language=English
Their *next* model, dp550 has all you want:
Standalone model, dvd rw+-, TV-in, web-radio and 100MB lan
(actually, its is TUX in a neat box)
The current model (dp500) lacks recording, but this will be available in the dp550
What about dvd recording software for linux? Is there suport for it yet? What drives can you use.
:).. I dont want to install windows to be able to use it thoug..
I think if i get an answear for this i can finaly put my old cdr out of service and buy myself a DVD+-rw drive
a DVD player that will accept SVCD. I just bought one for NZ $149 which is probably about $90 US and it plays svcds, vcds, mp3s, has svideo, both coax and optical Dolby DIgital 5.1 and DTS and it's about an inch thick. It even has a friggin svga output for your computer! The thing rocks. Even if you spend US $400 or whatever it costs for a dvdr there I still recommend this player. It's a Mizuda. Oh...and it has two mic inputs for karoke dvds for those without a life (which probably describes most of us or we wouldn't be reading this crap). No regions either! Good for guys like me who move to NZ from the US with as bunch of Region 1 and Region 4. Macrovision I haven't tested and besides I have a physical stabiliser that fixes that for my vcr and of course PowerDVD for the 'puter.
yeah
Ok, this might be a dumb question but . . . how are you doing this?
I've often considered getting a DVD recorder component and simply using TiVo's "archive to tape" function to save shows. That's probably pretty lossy, I suppose.
I work for a short run multimedia replication company and we've recently invested in a number of duplicators using Pioneer -R drives.. there seems to be a consensus in the industry that the -R drives come back with far less compatibility complaints from customers, and that has manifested itself as no companies are even selling +r duplicators anymore.. I can tell you from personal experience that we havent had a -R dvd come back yet, but we did have a couple of +r's come back when we started authoring..
"Make it idiot proof, and someone will make a better idiot."
I've found to get compatibility with most dvd players all you need to do is set the book type to DVD-ROM. Then dvd players who's hardware can play +-R media but their software doesn't tell them that they can play +-R media will happily play them because it thinks it's a DVD-ROM.
The new versions of nero lets you set the book type, before that you would want to use DVD Bitsetter to set it on the drive prom itself.
www.dvdplusrw.org has info about setting the book type.
DVD+R is better because it's got a Plus sign!
You can't even record on DVD-R because it's a minus!
Buy a Apex player for around $59.00. They are the least visually appealing but to date play the most formats I've ever witnessed. I even got mine to play raw MPEG's (they were encoded for VCD) that were burned to a DVD-R. (BTW to stay on post DVD-R is the best of the formats..read all the websites listed to find out why) You could fit a *lot* of video using such a fashion. Plus worse case you have to transcode in the future to comply with something else but VCD means you have all MPEG-1 encoded video and likely will have a ton of tools to help out. Don't forget that MPEG-2 is twice the resolution and thus twice the size. Unless you plan on doing some fancy menu work just stick with VCD and DVD-R. I'm rambling now... must need more tea.
"Sure I can make sure that my DVD player will play whatever format I produce but what about my parents and friends?" That is a copyright violation, and by article 100 section LCII of the DMCA you could be fined $50,000 per occurrence and up to 60 years at beautiful Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Big bother RIAA is watching you.
"640 K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981
I went with the Toshiba SD5002, and have been as giddy as a schoolgirl.
"Powers. I have them."
You can buy whatever format you want to. None of them is clearly superior to the other, none is any more "standard" than the other (the DVD-Forum is just a group of corporations, just like the DVD+Alliance), both offer the same amount of compatibility, the prices for blank media are the same (at least in Germany). The only risk there is, is that someday, there won't be any blank media for one format anymore, and I don't see that coming at all.
I also believe that multi-format-drives are too expensive for the advantage of being able to use both types. After all, when you burn, you still have to choose.
Just ignore the format and choose a drive that suits your needs in terms of price and speed.
I have lived for years off those puppies. And they have a 20 years shelf life. And they taste great, hell you can leave them out for days and they still taste ok.
The home of the 3D Socialization and Interaction Engine
Was this a series 2 box that you fixed so as to be able to extract? Did you have to chip the box to bypass the latest Tivo security? If so, can you tell how and what steps you did? If this is series 1....there is plenty of info out there, but, if series 2, PLEASE post you steps!!!
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Hi: I recently bought a DVD+R TDK burner and found that it worked fine in producing DVD's that I could play on my two "old" home DVD players. The issue that caused me enough grief to return it was the fact that the burned DVD's could not give me the quality of images that I see in the commercial DVD's unless I was willing to put one hour of material on the disc. I was using Pinnacle Studio 8, the 8.51 SE version. When I burned two hours of video, the quality was very poor. I was not impressed that the best quality only allowed me to record one hour on a disk. I was able to create chapters for my digital home videos but I could not create the sub-sections within the chapters. The other pain was the fact I could not fast forward through the disk at any higher speed than 2x. If I did, the image would freeze and I would have to stop the disk and scan through the chapters again. Maybe my DVD players are just a little too old?? Maybe an upgrade in Pinnacle Studio (of course for a price) would have resolved some of these issues. Their web site only suggested fancier editing effects as the benefit. My two pence.
On my Xbox (with a Thompson drive) +RWs work about 80% of the time. A friend's box that has a Philips drive will only play -R/Ws, and CD-RWs.
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
Which of the two formats if best supported by Free Software? I'm mostly interested in in Linux but FreeBSD and Win support with Free (as in speech) Software sould be a nice bonus.
Jeez, how did that crap get moderated to +5 points?
DVD-RAM 2.6GB can be removed from the cartridge and read in regular DVD-ROM drives.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
For making video DVDs to play anywhere, DVD-R is best, followed by +R.
For backing up data, DVD-RAM is most reliable, +RW is second-best. It's a bit faster, but less reliable.
+R and DVD-RW are pretty much useless except as a compromise alternative to +RW, DVD-R, or DVD-RAM.
Microsoft supports both +RW and DVD-RAM for data backup, Apple doesn't really *support* either, but DVD-RAM works.
For burning movies, Apple supports only DVD-R, but DVD-RW can be used by switching the disc.
Personally I wish the +RW and +R formats would die a horrible death, as they don't do anything that can't be done better with a DVD of some kind and a DVD-RAM/R/RW combo drive. They're a compromise based on the marketing assumption that people feel a compelling need to back up data and record movies using the same media. I question that assumption. However, if you agree with it, go ahead and get a +RW drive.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
As long as you use quality media, you find that -RWs play in more commercial DVD players than their +RW counterparts.
For sometime now, pioneer's A0x series has been the best -RW you can get. Now I know toshiba and sony have recently release their -RW's but Pioneer has been doing it for a bit longer. Tests done with the Pioneer A04 showed that DVD movies recorded with it would play in 80% of the commercial DVD players on the market. This was actually a very good result. I believe the tests were run last year by Tom's Hardware.
http://www.firmware-flash.com/ is where the firmware hackers live.
Region-free, read/write speed limit removal, etc.
There are a lot of general DVD-R/DVD+R discussions on those forums. The most popular burners there seem to be the Pioneer DVR-10x (103, 104, 105) and the Sony dual-format units.
I have a Pioneer DVR-105 and LOVE it. I have had no compatibility problems with the DVD-R format, except in my ancient 2x Creative DVD drive - I haven't tried any +Rs in it but I wouldn't be surprised if it couldn't read those either, that thing is stone-age.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
The cheapest I've seen DVD+R media is around 30-50% above "medium grade" (i.e. the best of the generics) -Rs.
Check out www.rima.com - Their cheapest DVD+R discs are over 1.5 times the price of their mid-grade (Ritek G03) -R discs. They're twice the price of the Princos, but that doesn't count because Princos are shit. Riteks, on the other hand, are excellent. The 2.4x +Rs are the same price as 4x -Rs.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Even vendors that tend to carry more -R than +R media (See www.rima.com - They have a greater assortment of "generic" -Rs than +Rs), are having trouble keeping -R media in stock. Rima was sold out of Ritek G03 (The best of the generics - EXCELLENT discs) for 2-3 weeks last month.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Try $125 less than that.
I paid $150 after rebates and coupons for my CenDyne (Rebadged DVR-105) drive from OfficeMax 2-3 months ago.
I have a DVR-105 in a Firewire case - It's stellar.
Check www.firmware-flash.com - You'll notice in the forums that even though the DRU-500 supports 4x -R burning, it often fails to detect 4x capable discs and drops the speed to 2x or even 1x. The Pioneer, on the other hand, loves 4x discs. (It has some issues with "cheapie" 1x discs, but 4x discs from the same manufacturer - Princo - work excellently in the 105)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Cheapest +R blanks are $1.80/disc that I've seen, not $4
Cheapest -R discs - $0.75, although I would avoid those, cheapest I'd buy are Ritek G03s, around $1.10-1.30 depending on quantity. G03s are excellent discs.
The DRU-500A sucks for recording -R media. It supposedly supports 4x burning, but often fails to recognize 4x discs as such and burns at only 1x or 2x. The Pioneer 105, on the other hand, LOVE 4x discs. It's obvious from many people's experiences that it was designed with those discs in mind. (It does pretty well on 1x discs too, but you have to be more careful about which generic media you buy - Princo 1x sucks, Princo 4x is apparently pretty good.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
You can build your own using ADS Tech cases.
I've put together a couple of Pioneer A05 drives in ADS cases with USB2.0. It burns and plays back seemlessly. (As an aside, I've also put 48x burners in the case as well, with no problems.)
For pre-made items, I haven't had any issues with LaCie drives.
Apple Superdrives are rebadged Pioneer DVR-10x drives.
So if you buy a DVR-105, you'll be getting the latest SuperDrive.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Ask yourself this..
What would Jesus use?
*ducks*
Moderation: +4. Modded 70% Funny and 30% Overrated. 100% Saturated.
The bottom line is that for all users who don't need to stream MPEG directly to the DVD (which probably includes most Linux users), there is very little practical difference between the formats.
First, my post was a retort of some very negative DVD-R comments. A lot of the misinformation about DVD-R/-RW has been spread by the DVD+RW manufacturers, through their website dvdplusrw.org, a site that pretends to be independent and yet existed before the first models existed, and has spread quite a lot of lies.
lies? Yes, like saying:
Sounds like a blanket statement to me, and deceptive to leave out DVD-RW 2X statistics
Whups!! This one got pulled. Wish I still had the Google cache
Suure it will...
Not sure what they're up to here... sounds like they are saying DVD-R doesn't have standard error-correcting bits, which is untrue.
And so on. The DVD Forum and the DVD-R community have no such need to lie: their product arrived on time and with full support of the DVD Forum, instead of rebelling and creating a new format, like the Circuit City/DIVX DVD fiasco.
DVD+RW, however was late even BEFORE the false-starts and further delays... they NEEDED to lie in order to slow DVD-R growth. I certainly held off on my DVD Recordable purchase for 6 months until I got enough information from cdinfo.com to make a judgement.
I stand by my statement -- DVD+RW and +R has wayyy less compatibility. Want proof? Just browse the CD compatability database of cdinfo.com.
Uncle Bob owns a $350 Sony DVD player from 2000 and is NOT going to switch to a $60 Apex DVD player. ANY player anyone can name that supports DVD+R, ALSO supports DVD-R. The reverse is NOT true.
Of course, if both formats work on everyone's you know's players... great! Just get a dual-format recorder that does both DVD-R and DVD+R. That way, when your friends buy blank discs for you to record things, they can vote with their wallet (which probably is not DVD+R at 300% more per disc!). :-)
The real question is, why is it so bloody difficult to copy a DVD?
I can put a cd in drive F: and have a perfectly usable copy created in drive G: in a few minutes. (Unless the disk contains SafeDisk 2 or GeekScrewer 9) Just try doing that with a DVD!
First of all, the source DVD has twice the capacity of your blank DVD. And there is some sector that you can't even write to. So you end up decrypting, shrinking it down, etc. I've had a DVD writer for a month and have never used it to copy a DVD because I determined that my computer is just not fast enough to do all this in a reasonable amount of time.
I just want to put the source DVD in one drive and have the copy come out in the other. Is that so much to ask?
Cause i can't afford a DVD burner. If you buy me one i'll check.
If you make a DVD Video disc with DVD-R it will play in most DVD players (90% or so), even old ones. I've been making DVD-R's in an Apple Power Mac for over two years and they have all played in every player I've tried them on (even some funky ones). If your older player is a name-brand then it should play DVD-R just fine unless it is really, really old.
The last I looked, DVD+RW only plays in about half of the DVD players out there. Dell's first DVD burners in their systems were notorious for making discs that people couldn't play on their home DVD player for this reason.
I heard there is a dvd coming out that will erase itself after a couple of days. It's supposed to play on any dvd system... does anyone know anything else about this?
Well, I think this should make your decision crystal clear-- Pioneer is coming out with a DVD+R and DVD+RW burner *this* month, the DVR-A06 (which, if OEM model numbering continues as it has, you'll be able to find cheaper as a DVR-106). It still does DVD-R and DVD-RW, so it's a dual-format burner like Sony's basically. But the point is, obviously Pioneer sees the writing on the wall, and despite the PR going along with this release, is giving in to the bigger names pushing the +RW camp.
Hopefully -R and -RW don't die an unneeded death at the hands of monopolies.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.