Three More Solar Flares

Evil Adrian writes "Space.com reports that the sun shot off three more solar flares on Monday. This is quite a historic period for solar activity." The article breaks down the recent flares, and what the effects have been. Update: 11/05 01:57 GMT by T : cyberMalex writes "Space.com is reporting the 10th in a string of major solar flares which have been errupting from the sun over the past two weeks. "This one saturated the X-ray detectors on the NOAA's GOES satellites that monitor the Sun. The jury is therefore out on the definitive classification of the flare." "Other scientists have indicated the flare may indeed be an X20 or stronger. Only one X20 event has been seen in recent years, and it was not Earth-directed and had little effect.""

Comments

Nothing really matters.

[anaphora]

"I think the last week will go into the history books as one of the most dramatic periods of solar activity we have seen in modern time," Brekke told SPACE.com.

...No it wont. Doesn't anyone understand, the general public doesn't CARE about this crap. In 20 years, when people look back at this period in history, they'll see the WTC. Operation: Iraqi Freedom. The video tape of Saddam's fire-ant torture. In 100 years, They'll see the WTC. In 1000 years, they'll see America, and they'll say exactly what we say about the Romans, "Wow, they really owned while they were around. It's too bad they had to fade away." Think about it, can YOU name any war that happened 1000 years ago? How about all the leaders of a country somewhere?

Re:Nothing really matters.

[rastakid]

You said it yourself: the general public. But ask anyone interested in astrology in, let's say, 5 years, and they'll probably remember. I do believe solar flares are pretty interesting, but I have to admit, I'm interested in it. And with me, there are many, many others.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[The Man]

I disagree that we're much better at keeping records. The records exist, sure, and often they're stored on the most reliable media we have. You could have said the same thing 1000 years ago as well, and yet despite the abundance of records and the reliability of storage, not enough survived to give a detailed picture of many events. I suspect the same will be true 1000 years from now.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[marktoml]

In addition to the better records already mentioned, the general populace is more widely informed (holistic evidence to the contrary).

Plus there are a lot more geeks like us :)

Re:Nothing really matters.

[admbws]

Ok, well here's a list of known battles between 1400BC and 600AD, and list of known battles between 601AD and 1400AD.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[javiercero]

I guess you meant: Astronomy. Astrology is reading the cards and take other people's money while saying bullshit about some planet alignment crap. Astronomy is the actual study of space....

Re:Nothing really matters.

[IWorkForMorons]

In 1000 years, they'll see America, and they'll say exactly what we say about the Romans, "Wow, they really owned while they were around. It's too bad they had to fade away."

I doubt any of the people the Romans conquered ever said that...

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Chester K]

about it, can YOU name any war that happened 1000 years ago? How about all the leaders of a country somewhere?

No, but around a 1000 years ago there was one of the most dramatic periods of solar activity they'd seen in those times!

Re:Nothing really matters.

[mirko]

Think about it, can YOU name any war that happened 1000 years ago?
Yes : I am European. :)

BTW, I pity the moderator who modded your troll up.
I shall cancel his puny judgement next time I metamod : you are an OFFTOPIC TROLL.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[javiercero]

Actually Normands reffer to the French ancestors from that group which hailed back from Normandy, same from the Saxons wich originated in Saxony in Germany. Nothing to do with Northman, which would be the native Scots, nor Southman which would be related to the original Englishmen which had more ties to the Romans after the interbreeding during the Roman domination, the Anglos. The Normands and the Saxons were members of the "barbarian" that pushed the Romans away when the Western Roman Empire crumbled. The Anglo-Saxon race did not find nor found that little colony named America, that was done by the Iberians... since they were the first European settlers in the continent.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[missing000]

So, you would argue that we are worse at reccord keeping than we were 2000 years ago?

I think a comparison to the Dark Ages is a bit silly. Maybe our record keeping sucks, but who has never heard of the Peloponnesian War? (It was 431 BC BTW)

Re:Nothing really matters.

[ConceptJunkie]

Oh, no!!! Global warming has broken the sun! Henny Penny, call your office!

I can't tell if you're joking or not. If you are it's pretty funny... but don't give the whackos any ideas.

If you're not joking...

Re:Nothing really matters.

[the_2nd_coming]

yeah...keeping digital records...that will work.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[rastakid]

I'm sorry, I was confused by the Dutch word. We use the word 'astrologie' to talk about astronomy, and since my first language is Dutch, I'm sure you understand my mistake. :)

Re:Nothing really matters.

[fishbowl]

It wouldn't surprise me if astROLOGISTS put more emphasis on the importantce of solar activity than astronomers do. Scientists do science, but pseudoscientists are at liberty to make any wild conjecture they want to -- and the more obvious the celestial event the more weight they can put on it when they invent their consequences.

In years to come, today's solar activity will be archives of photos and numbers in observatory logs. But anyone born today will always be able to find someone willing to use the sky as an explanation for their success or failure, who they should pursue as a love interest, what lotto numbers they should pick....

Re:Nothing really matters.

[annisette]

Actually, even if you do not believe in astrology, which does not bother me one way or the other we might as well get some facts strait, astrologers so not read cards, they read charts. Carl Jung had some interestings things to say about astrology something like "I am not sure what is happening (about astrological readings) but something is happening."

Re:Nothing really matters.

[thelexx]

The Battle of Thermopylae, the Trojan War, the Peloponnesian War and the Punic Wars spring instantly to mind.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[tomstdenis]

don't forget sewage......

hehehe life of brian...

Re:Nothing really matters.

[confused one]

You need to learn the difference between astrology "the planets are aligned with the wrong constellation" and astronomy ; an actual science

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Trolling4Dollars]

What good is digital media to a post-apocalyptic society that has no ability to read it? Or... a society where humanity has evolved into something else that no longer cares (grey goo). Or... if the Earth just plain isn't here anymore (Planet X - which is dubious at best).

Re:Nothing really matters.

[ebacon]

Concrete. Where would we be without concrete?

Re:Nothing really matters.

[SirLanse]

How does this effect "GLOBAL WARMING"?

I like Advil and am not afraid to overdose.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[b-baggins]

What part of the phrase, "a thousand years from now" don't you understand?

But is is an interesting question to posit. I wonder if people danced in the streets and threw flowers when the Romans marched into a country. There are several instances of this happening with America.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[pivo]

Actually, the Roman idea of law and order is kinda one of the pillars of the West.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[missing000]

Well, I can't really speculate on what a non-sentient being may or may not be able to do with out information, but I do think that the 'digital-fear' folks are making an undue amount of noise.

A post-apocalyptic society would almost certainly glean a tremendous amount of information from ours. While they would not likely find readability or meaning from Slashdot (and sometimes I don't now), I am sure that the sheer volume of printed matter would ensure most of our prominent history survives.

If nothing else, the Voyager probes have some pretty durable discs with binary information recorded on them, and a post earth (or even extra-terrestrial) society has some good chance of finding them and decoding that information.

Is that to say we can't do better? No. But I think the picture is a bit better than it is usually painted.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Abcd1234]

So, you would argue that we are worse at reccord keeping than we were 2000 years ago?

Actually... yes. Consider that the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Rosetta Stone have both existed for ~2000 years. Can you name a single form of media we have today that will last as long? Now, granted, today we are more focused on record keeping, so in that regard, we are better. But I guarantee, most of those records will be unaccessible in 100 years.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Abcd1234]

There are several instances of this happening with America.

Just OOC, what are these instances? Any links to credible news sources?

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Theatetus]

Haiti. Bosnia. Just two that come to mind (I wasn't on either op but detachments from my unit were and, in fact, they brought back the actual flowers the people gave them.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[jawtheshark]

I'm quoting "van Dale, Groot Woordenboek der Nederlandse Taal"

astrologie leer van sterren; thans alleen in de zin van sterrenwichtelaarij; leer van de invloed de hemellichamen op het lot en de aanleg van de mensen; kunst van het opstellen van horoscopen.

astronomie sterrenkunde

Look, you may be Dutch and I'm just one of those silly Flemish guys in the south, but please just admit your mistake (typo, I even will take it as a typo) instead of blaming it on your language. You can often blame it on your language, but in this particular instance, you cannot....

Re:Nothing really matters.

[squiggleslash]

A lot of countries in Europe a little under 60 years ago. I'd post links, but I don't think Pathe has a website ;)

Re:Nothing really matters.

[BenBenBen]

Yes, but apart from that, what have they ever done for us?

Re:Nothing really matters.

[IWorkForMorons]

Well, considering that people now think back to their ancestors and wonder how they would have developed had the Romans not invaded. Just as in 1000 years, the ancestors of Native Indians will think back and wonder how they would have developed had Europe not evaded...

Re:Nothing really matters.

[mrondello]

How about the Battle for Saxon England in 1066?

Fought between King Harold of Saxony, King Harald Hardrada of Norway, and Duke William "the conquerer" of Normady. The most noteable battles including the battle of Stamford Bridge and the battle of Hastings, where William defeated King Harold, leading to norman rule of England.

See I remember basic history.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[missing000]

Consider that the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Rosetta Stone have both existed for ~2000 years. Can you name a single form of media we have today that will last as long?

1) Go downtown this afternoon (any small town or city will do), and look at the buildings. I bet you will see plenty of carved writing on walls and cornerstones. Some even depicts history!

2) Many, many volumes of information are currently being preserved in the Library of Congress and elsewhere utilizing anti-aging techniques. I would expect most of these collections to survive for quite a long time.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[IWorkForMorons]

Sorry...Europe invaded, not evaded. Man do antihistamines ever make your head clouded.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Trolling4Dollars]

I remember seeing a replica of the Voyager and it's accompanying disc at the 1982 World's Fair in Knoxville, Tennessee. One of the questions that came to my mind right away was... what if this thing lands/crashes on a primitive planet and the disc winds up being used for grinding some sort of grain against or maybe they try to melt it to use it in an artifact. Boom! All the info is gone. I think the main problem with any form of data storage is that no one ever thinks about the material it's made of. If you want it to last, it had better be made of something that will last for millennia or even eons. And that's just the material that it's made of. The data also needs to be stored on it in a way that it won't be erased in any way. It will also need to be clearly marked in some fashion that any post agricultural society will recognize it for what it is; a special artifact. And finally, it needs to be indestructible. Of course... that's all assuming some kind of non-biological approach. I suppose one other way to store information could be done with some sort of biological chemical mechanism. Something that can reproduce itself perpetually, thereby reproducing the data. The combinations of these chemical machanisms could form more complex combinations resulting in various new and larger forms of data with differently evolving data security and physical security mechanisms. The final goal being that this vast data pool would eventually spread itself through space to other locations in the universe to provide a lasting redundancy. I don't know if anyone's though of that though... ;P

Re:Nothing really matters.

[bandy]

Wars 1000 years ago? Let's start with the Crusades, and work backwards. There were the wars waged against Rome by the Goths, the Visigoths, the Vandals and of course the Huns. Lots of examples, fellah.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Your Pal Dave]

Yea, what have the Roman's done for us anyway, besides the aqueduct?

How about our modern method of flagging crappy movies and other overrated events: Roman Numerals.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[DarkHand]

Something you describe HAS been thought up already... It's called life.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Bendebecker]

Well the Romans never invaded Mecca or Medina and we can see how well the middle east turned out...

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Planesdragon]

In 1000 years, they'll see America, and they'll say exactly what we say about the Romans

Ah, no. In 1003 Europe was recovering from the chaos of Chalemange's descendants, Chirstendom was furter-cementing, and the Roman Empire was gone. (The splinter Ottoman Empire, which grew roughly directly from Rome, continued through WWII.)

"Roughly" 1000 years ago (+/- 400 years) we had the Crusades, King Richard, Robin Hood, Henry VII, a scattering of Popes, folk who remembered 'King Arthur', and the final wimpering death of the Roman Empire.

So, yeah, in 1000 years I expect to be fairly well remembered. 10,000 maybe not, but definitly a measly 1,000.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[corbettw]

Correction: the Byzantine Empire splintered from the Roman. The Ottoman Turks came later.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[spyfrog]

I am quite sure this happend quite often in occupied Europe when US and other allied troops drove Wermacht away during 1944 and 1945...

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Bendebecker]

Law, order, infrastructure, education, the expansion of greek culture throughout Europe...
But if you want to go back to the druids, the guys who made the aztecs look like pacifists, be my guest. If you want to look at Europe without Rome, you need only to look at the areas that Rome didn't conquer. Mecca, Medina, the arabian pennisula. Much of Europe would probably be very much like modern day Saudi Arabia without the Romans - public beheadings, amputations, repressive regimes - plus the added risk of death at any moment. The Romans brought order and law. They united the people. Most people forget that the Romans were not exactly enslaving anyone that didn't already have problems. Eygpt had been under the heel of the Persians until it was liberated by Alexander. Then it was soon to be under greek tyrants and despots till it was assimiliated into the Roman empire where those same despots still continued to reign. You have France(Gaul until they were driven out by the Francs in the 500's AD), switzerland, and germany controlled by a class of priests called the druids who kept order by an insanely strict class system where the poor(which was just about everybody) had no rights and were often murdered in mass human sacrifices. You have Greece, were the city states were still fighting, enslaving, and butchering each other. The romans enslaved people. That was actually higher up on the chain. Their enemies usually butchered the inhabitants instead. It was a direct result of the stability that first the orginal and then the Eastern Roman empire provided that allowed western culture to advance. If there had been no Roman Empire, Druids would have controlled much of western europe, the parthians the east until they were overthrown by the persians who were overthrown by Islam. Without the stability offered to Europe by Rome, Europe would have remained divided and scattered until they were eventually conquered. The Romans united much of Europe and without that unification, you can forget about the middle ages and everything afterwards. If there had been no Rome, I would be typing this post in arabic.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Bob McCown]

Thank God someone got the reference...aieeeeeee

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Bendebecker]

"Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child."
---Marcus Tullius Cicero

Re:Nothing really matters.

[mr_pins]

Those wars all happened well *over* a thousand years ago. The Battle of Hastings (1066) would have been much closer to the mark.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[spyfrog]

Actually, I belive we all owe much to the romans and the greeks.
Even us who belong to the tribes defeated by them (ok, they never reached my country but they influenced it).
All western civilization is based on roman practice.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[tomstdenis]

hehehe no problem. Always look on the bright side of life, [whistle]....

Tom

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Q-Cat5]

Hmmm . . . just a small side note, the Viking King Herold was not a direct participant in the Battle of Hastings. The direct participants were William the Conqueror and Edward the Confessor. Edward was defeated. It's worth noting, however, that a few weeks prior to the battle of Hastings, King Herold did try to invade England. The Battle of Stamford Bridge *was* an attempted Norse (Northmen) invasion and is sometimes lumped together with Hastings. I've heard some theories that had Edwards troops not been reduced somewhat by the attempted Viking invasion, Hastings might have had a whole 'nother result.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Abcd1234]

1) Go downtown this afternoon (any small town or city will do), and look at the buildings. I bet you will see plenty of carved writing on walls and cornerstones. Some even depicts history!

Heh, okay, allow me to rephrase by saying "name a single form of digital media", since that's the form much of our new information is taking.

2) Many, many volumes of information are currently being preserved in the Library of Congress and elsewhere utilizing anti-aging techniques. I would expect most of these collections to survive for quite a long time.

Assuming, of course, that the library of congress exists 100 (or 2000) years from now, and has managed to continue practicing these anti-aging techniques, fine, it's possible for these materials to survive. However, there's no way current digital media could survive being abandoned in a cave for 2000 years... my point is that these media are fragile, and require work on our part to maintain them, which could pose a problem. And this completely ignores our possible inability to read said media (even media from as recent as 40 years ago is difficult to read these days (lack of readers, etc)... imagine trying to read a backup tape 100 years from now!)

Re:Nothing really matters.

[flewp]

We'd be free of potholes! Plus we might all drive tanks to get around the terrain. Or monster trucks! OR.... TANKS WITH MONSTER TRUCKS WHEELS!(@!)!!

Re:Nothing really matters.

[srn_test]

I think confusing astrology and astronomy would get you lynched in a lot of places. You should be careful :)

Re:Nothing really matters.

[SuperJ]

HELLO!!! It says it will go down in history books as one of the most dramatic periods of SOLAR ACTIVITY in recent time. This site has gown straight down the toilet if stupid crap like this gets modded up.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[dragonbutt]

sounds like you discribed "Stone Hendge"

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Deadstick]

Ummm, so, what ARE your contenders for the most dramatic periods of solar activity?

rj

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Bob McCown]

Its a truly sad day when a majority of the posts of a movie hook dont get it...I need a drink...

Re:Nothing really matters.

[00420]

"I am not sure what is happening (about astrological readings) but something is happening."

Wow. That sounds really scientific.

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Chris Hodges]

The direct participants were William the Conqueror and Edward the Confessor.

Edward was dead by then, it was Harold (another Harold, not Hardratha) who was king of ~England by 1066. Edward left no sons. Harold was Edwards brother-in-law, while William of Normandy(also distantly related) claimed to have been promised the throne on Edward's death. It wasn't so much the battle of Stamford Bridge that weakened the English army, rather the long forced march south.

In more detail just in case anyone cares: The BBC's account of the battle

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Doctor Crocodile]

"Wow, they really owned while they were around. It's too bad they had to fade away." Think about it, can YOU name any war that happened 1000 years ago? How about all the leaders of a country somewhere?

I agree that if (big IF) the US is even visible in 20/100/1000 years average joe will still know fuck-all about what happens in the next street, let alone what happens anywhere or anytime else.
Just don't assume that countries that actually HAVE some history are as negligent or as disinterested in their surroundings. ... and I bet it isn't called 'Iraqi Freedom" by then, either.....

Re:Nothing really matters.

[Doctor Crocodile]

In more detail just in case anyone cares: The BBC's account of the battle [bbc.co.uk] which clearly states that Harold was capable of deploying longbows in 18 seconds.....

Re:Nothing really matters.

[JimFromJersey]

> But ask anyone interested in astrology

ummm... I think you meant Astronomy

Aurora Cam

[dolo666]

From the site: Aurora Cam, which "shows the current extent and position of auroral activity in the northern hemisphere, based on measurements taken during the most recent polar pass of the NOAA POES satellite."

Does this recent solar activity make any of you feel uneasy? I mean... is it time for Bruce Willis to suit up again and save the planet? Nine X-class solar flares... eeeek. That has to be bad.

Re:Aurora Cam

[JamesD_UK]

How about sending Red Adair off to the sun to cool things off a bit?

Re:Aurora Cam

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's time for Bruce Willis to blow up the Sun.

Re:Aurora Cam

[Headius]

I've got to agree...one point no articles or scientists have addressed is "should we be concerned?" It was unprecedented to have a large flare on an off year. It was unprecedented to have a second one. And now it's unprecedented to have a whole flurry of them within a week. At what point does unprecedented become something to worry about?

Any astrophysicists out there care to offer up any soothing words? What are the causes of solar flares? Would a large number of them signal anything of concern?

To put succinctly what goes through the heads of many paranoiacs like myself: "IS THE SUN DYING?!"

Re:Aurora Cam

[Shakrai]

SOLAR PAUSE? Giant sunspots 486 and 488 are about to disappear from view, carried over the western limb of the sun by our star's 27-day rotation. This means Earth-directed explosions will stop... for a while. Big sunspots often persist for many weeks. These two might reappear on the eastern side of the sun in two weeks, the time required for them to transit the far side of the sun.

Quoted from Spaceweather Perhaps those of us who missed out on the Auroras (BOTH times for me) due to bad weather/timing will get another shot? Think this is still going on in two weeks?

Re:Aurora Cam

[GigsVT]

Is the sun dying?!

Does it matter?

Re:Aurora Cam

[zephc]

"Does this recent solar activity make any of you feel uneasy?"

No no, it's a perfectly natural, healthy thing for a star of his age to... want to experiment in self-gratification. You see, a star that age is still learning more about itself, and should be encouraged to do so, in a healthy way. Of course, our star may be doing this a bit too often right now, but it is a novelty that will soon wear off, and once he has become more accustomed to his self, he may do it a lot less. In the meantime, we here on earth must not make our Sun feel ashamed of this, merely support him, and try not to get hit in the face.

Re:Aurora Cam

[dolo666]

"No no, it's a perfectly natural, healthy thing for a star of his age to... want to experiment in self-gratification."

Your comparison to solar flares and masturbation made me laugh my ass off! Good job. :)

I can picture a couple of 1950's parents, and that announcer saying things like, "It's healthy and natural to want to express your sexuality, Sun, but please do it in your own private area, not where the WHOLE WORLD can see..."

Re:Aurora Cam

[letxa2000]

It was unprecedented to have a second one. And now it's unprecedented to have a whole flurry of them within a week. At what point does unprecedented become something to worry about?

It might be something to worry about when we have the means of evacuating the solar system, or at least the planet. Even if someone knows the sun is going to explode in a week, is there any reason for us to worry? We can't do anything to stop it nor can we save ourselves, so why worry?

Don't worry... be happy. :)

Re:Aurora Cam

[Shakrai]

It might be something to worry about when we have the means of evacuating the solar system, or at least the planet. Even if someone knows the sun is going to explode in a week, is there any reason for us to worry? We can't do anything to stop it nor can we save ourselves, so why worry?

No, we need to know about it so we can all eat, drink, and be merry in the time that we have left.... then all feel really stupid (not to mention owe apologies to that girl in the cubical down the hall) when nothing happens ;) Y2K anyone?

Re:Aurora Cam

[AllUsernamesAreGone]

"IS THE SUN DYING?!"

Yes. It depends what timescale you're talking about though ;)

Re:Aurora Cam

[Headius]

Exactly...I'll worry about everything until I know if it is or is not going to happen. After that, there's no point in worrying - it's not going to change outcomes. Then I can just worry about secondary effects...and then tertiary effects. Such is the sad existence of the paranoid.

Re:Aurora Cam

[GigsVT]

Haha, that was hilarious. :)

I saw aurora down here in Virginia too. It is an unusual amount of activity.

My point is, if the sun is going to explode, or whatnot, it doesn't matter, we're all dead in a few days anyway. Nothing we can do can change that, so why get worked up over it?

Re:Aurora Cam

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Yep. If I knew the world were going to end in a week, suddenly things like doing homework and getting to work on time would seem a whole lot less important.

Re:Aurora Cam

[lonesome phreak]

I was listening to NPR about something like this, but it was a person worrying about a giant planet-killer. My opinion was "so?". I've got other things to worry about than solar flares or planet-killers. It's not like I could get away anyway.

Re:Aurora Cam

[Lemmeoutada Collecti]

I would imagine that by enlisting enough hands, foundries, etc, and going f*ck it with regards to precision and using minimal safety and all the best ideas, we probably could whip up some means of evacuation in a week. Might not be pretty, but enough to survive...

Remember, something that big becomes a 6 billion person job.

Re:Aurora Cam

[squiggleslash]

Look, ok, you're right. It is worth worrying about. So, here's what I did. I just checked into it, did a few measurements, looked at the historical record, and basically we're in the clear.

Let me know if there's anything else I can reassure you about,

Re:Aurora Cam

[Peyna]

If the sun blows up, dies, goes away, or does anything else catastrophic, by the time it happens you won't have the chance to worry about it, so who cares?

Re:Aurora Cam

[timeOday]

It was unprecedented to have a large flare on an off year. It was unprecedented to have a second one. And now it's unprecedented to have a whole flurry of them within a week.

Well, it certainly puts to shame those naysayers who continue to insist that this is all just a natural phenomenon of some sort; that man is not to blame. You know the type, driving their SUVs to work at the coal factory. How many more "coincidences" will it take to convince them?!

Re:Aurora Cam

[ultranova]

If the Sun would explode, the Earth would be vaporized. There would be no survivors and no land to live off. Just a cloud of hot gas, which would eventually turn to space dust as it cooled. This is, of course, assuming a supernova explosion. A smaller flare would probably just rip off the Earth's atmosphere and boil the oceans empty. And, since the Sun would lose a lot of it's mass in any kind of flare, it would be a lot dimmer afterwards, so any possible survivors would face a neverending ice age (and oxygen deprivation, since any surviving plants would not have enough sunlight to produce oxygen). So no, it doesn't really make much sense to worry about future generations in that case, because there won't be any.

Re:Aurora Cam

[4of12]

If I knew the world were going to end in a week, suddenly things...would seem a whole lot less important.

You forgot

"Abandon restraint on charging your VISA card - by the time the grace period is over I won't be around to worry about it."

Re:Aurora Cam

[JDevers]

Such as ???

Interstellar craft aren't a manufacturing problem so much as a THEORY problem...

You say it becomes a 6 billion person job, so would those "in the know" tell the other 99.99999% ? If they do, within a day it would be a 5 billion person job...meaning atleast a billion people would be dead from suicide, riots, etc etc. Most of those remaining would have no idea HOW to help even if they WANTED to help. The average American (and I have to assume Earthling, just haven't met enough non-Americans to draw a real concensus of any one other place) nearly curls up into a ball when faced with just a minor incident, something like this would put most of us into crying baby mode. Then we deal with the fact that not that many of the 6 billion, er 5 billion by this time, would actually know HOW to help. I'm a molecular geneticist and am more educated than the overwhelming majority of those 5 billion people but don't have a clue how I could help. I doubt those working at the local K-Mart would be better off and I REALLY doubt the 4 billion or so people currently sitting on a dirt floor around the world would know how to help.

If we knew about it 10 years in advance, maybe we could do something. All out intense re-education and complete disregard for Earth's natural resources MIGHT get it done.

A week's notice would be enough time for us to legalize drugs and let everyone have a really nice 7 days before the big boom.

Re:Aurora Cam

[wizrd_nml]

it's a perfectly natural, healthy thing for a star of his age to... want to experiment in self-gratification

Oh no... If he/she just reached "that age", those experiments in self-gratification are going to go on for a looooong time.

Then again, I don't look forward to the age when he/she will be ready to hook up with another star! That will surely spell disaster.

I should write a reminder to my great-great-great-great-...-great grandchildren and warn them.

Anyone have a howto for that universal space language and a recording media that will last millions of years?

Re:Aurora Cam

[sjames]

we probably could whip up some means of evacuation in a week.

Not necessary to evacuate at all! At that point, Earth itself is the spaceshipaas far as anyone is concerned, we'd 'just' need to cobble together life support in the existing structure (that is, underground). The 'good news' is that with the environment already ruined beyond repair, CO2 emissions or nuclear waste produced by the solution would be irrelevant.

So, what would be needed is lots of digging, nuke plant building, and growth lights.

The potheads who grow their own in a closet would go from 'criminals' to 'experts vital to our survival' in an instant :-)

Re:Aurora Cam

[Lemmeoutada Collecti]

To be honest, I think that in the face of a crisis we would still have enough people to pull something off. Of course, I always tend to look at the brighter side of things...

Re:Aurora Cam

[JDevers]

This is one of those situations where I HOPE you are right and fear that I am...

Re:Aurora Cam

[Yrrebnarg]

I'm more a fan of Bruce Campbell, myself. Willis can take care of your standard villains, but once they go truly strange (undead or from the past), there's only one Bruce.

Biblical

[GaelenBurns]

I wish I had my Revelations better memorized.

Re:Biblical

[mr_z_beeblebrox]

I wish I had my Revelations better memorized.

"And the horsemen spoke "Behold 9 solar prominences" And the Earth was smited by an X15.

Re:Biblical

[GaelenBurns]

Verily!

Re:Biblical

[Dutchmaan]

I wish I had my Revelations better memorized.

Why?

Re:Biblical

[The Fun Guy]

So do I. The book in the Bible is "Revelation", not "Revelations". God will know his own, pal.

Re:Biblical

[iabervon]

I believe we're looking for a third part of the sun to be snuffed out. Big as these flares are, they're trivial in terms of the size of the sun.

Re:Biblical

[Theatetus]

First off: why?

Secondly, it's Revelation or if you prefer Apocalypse (which is just Greek for "Revelation"). Books back then didn't have titles, and this one simply comes from the first word of the book.

Thirdly, it's a very thinly-disguised mid-2nd-century political invective about the fall of Rome and Judaism and the establishment of a Christian hegemony in eastern Europe and western Asia, not the end of the world.

Fourthly, in most modern Christian's minds it has been hopelessly confused with Daniel and John's letters (for example, most people you ask will tell you that Revelation mentions the Anti-Christ; it does not. The only biblical references to "antichrist" are in John's letters, and it's "antichrists" not "The Antichrist").

Fifthly, the reference to the sun in Revelation is:

"I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth" (Rev. 6:12)

which is the exact opposite of what the sun is doing right now.

Sixthly and lastly, memorizing books about imaginary tribal deities strikes me as an immense waste of time, but if it works for you, more power to you.

Re:Biblical

[phoebusQ]

I'm so glad you're so open minded that you can just insult others' beliefs at will... The term "tribal deity" is a gross mis-representation, and you know it (if you're half as intelligent as you sound). As far of the rest of it, I pretty much agree... You are entitled to your opinion, of course.

Re:Biblical

[BeatlesForum.com]

Thirdly, it's a very thinly-disguised mid-2nd-century political invective about the fall of Rome and Judaism and the establishment of a Christian hegemony in eastern Europe and western Asia, not the end of the world.

I humbly disagree. I don't remember reading about a period of recorded history when people took the mark of the beast, Christ returns and non-believers, the anti-christ and Satan were thrown into the Lake of Fire. I also don't remember reading about the new Heaven and new Earth, and the new Jerusalem. Surely the loss of most of the world's population during the Tribulation would have been recorded. Afterall, the Bubonic Plague was recorded - albeit centuries later.

I pray that you'll read the prophecies of Daniel and Isaiah.

Michael

Re:Biblical

[Dirtside]

Um, he was saying that Revelation was an allegory about contemporary (2nd-century) politics. In other words, Revelation isn't even legitimately spiritual -- it's just a political diatribe that's had the names changed to protect the ignorant. He's not claiming that any of the specific events mentioned in Revelation (e.g. sun turning into sackcloth) actually happened.

Also, what is praying supposed to accomplish? Asking nonexistent entities to do things isn't a particularly effective way of getting those things done.

Re:Biblical

[Chester K]

"And the horsemen spoke "Behold 9 solar prominences" And the Earth was smited by an X15.

Naw it's not nearly as bad as that. What's really going on is that with X10's popunders patented and too expensive for them to use now, they're looking into alternative means of blanketing their name across the Earth. Solar flares turned out to be a perfect idea -- trigger a few of the right intensity and their company name is all over, science journals, websites, the nightly news.

Just give them a few weeks to perfect the technology and we won't hear the end of X10 again.

Re:Biblical

[blackwing0013]

You of course missed Revelations 16:8 "And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire."

Re:Biblical

[woztheproblem]

"Also, what is praying supposed to accomplish? Asking nonexistent entities to do things isn't a particularly effective way of getting those things done."

Arguments that assume what your opponent obviously does not assume ("God is a nonexistent entity") generally don't work very well, regardless of how smug you sound.

Re:Biblical

[Dirtside]

The point of such arguments is to embarrass the opponent. "What? You still believe in Santa Claus? *snerk*"

it..

[xao gypsie]

it appears that i was right the first time. Shamash, the mesopotamian sun god is really angry. run to your ziggurats all ye heathen, and make your sacrifices it is too late and we are decimated under his awesome power!!!
(for a niminal fee, i will be willing to act as priest...)

xao

Re:it..

[pilgrim23]

Shamash? Hurumph! Let us talk REAL Iraqi gods here, not that johnny come lately: Enlil, Enki, Eriskigal, The Vault of Absu, the Belly of Tiamat. Follow along in your Enuma Elish.... of course, there is always Nyrlathotep and Cthulu...

Re:it..

[hatchet]

And Marduk, enki's son. His number is 10. And colour purple.
I guess apocalypse will come as soon as 10th solar flare strikes and aurora shines in purple!
The Only thing that doesn't fit is that Marduk is actually god of jupiter..:/

Re:it..

[y0bhgu0d]

ah, but the sun spots are the size of jupiter!

Re:it..

[Bendebecker]

We got too noisy again?

Re:it..

[Lord_Dweomer]

"(for a niminal fee, i will be willing to act as priest...)"

And for a nominal fee I will be willing to act as spell-checker.

Re:it..

[xao gypsie]

yes, but thankfully my middle name is Utnapishtim....

xao

The end of the world

[NetNinja]

"This is how it ends, not with a bang, But a whimper" :(

Who said that?

Re:The end of the world

[HarveyBirdman]

T. S. Eliot

And althought there might not be sound in space, I think these flare can be considered pretty big bangs.

Re:The end of the world

[NanoGator]

"This is how it ends, not with a bang, But a whimper" :(

Who said that?

George W. Bush.

Re:The end of the world

[Trolling4Dollars]

Hey... wasn't the "big bang" supposed to be more of a hum? Kinda like a jet engine over head? At least that's what /. said last week.

Re:The end of the world

[krumms]

"This is how it ends, not with a bang, But a whimper" :(

Who said that?

George W. Bush.

No banging for YOU, Dubya!

Re:The end of the world

[Bendebecker]

ee cummings

I wonder why

[MikeXpop]

George Bush hasn't added the Sun to the axis of evil. That evildoer is most definitely threatening America's freedom. It's attacked Ear^H^H^H America 6 times now! It must be stopped.

Re:I wonder why

[JayPee]

No shit.. it's a big thermonuclear device which is showering us with deadly radiation.

WMD!! In space!! GOD HELP US!

Re:I wonder why

[DogIsMyCoprocessor]

Bush - "The more solar flares are shot at us, the more it shows the desperation of the Sun."

Re:I wonder why

[pclminion]

I was once in a university class called "Alpine Environments" in which we studied, well, the obvious. There was a student in class who seemed quite literally to be on acid at all times. He was barely comprehensible when he spoke, rocked back and forth in his seat constantly, and was generally pretty creepy.

One day in the class the professor says "Now, at elevations above 9000 feet it is extremely important to wear sunblock, since the ultraviolet radiation from the sun is much stronger where the air is thinner."

This guy shoots his hand up with a crazed look on his face and screams: "My God, are you saying there's RADIATION coming from the SUN?!" It took about five minutes of soothing, but he finally calmed back down and seemed to accept the fact that light, indeed, is radiation.

So don't laugh too hard. Some people might well be stupid enough to take your joke literally.

Re:I wonder why

[IthnkImParanoid]

IANAPsychiatrist, but I know people with mental disorders. Disorganized speech, fidgeting, and, of course, paranoia are all symptoms of mental disorders, including schizophrenia, which affects 1-2% of the population at some point in their lives. It sounds like this guy was schizo.

He probably wasn't stupid. In fact, I've heard (although it was a long time ago, so I'm not entirely sure) schizophrenia disproportionately affects people of above average intelligence.

Re:I wonder why

[geek]

It doesnt have anything to do with intelligence, it's a physical disease thats passed on from mother to child in the womb but doesn't usually hit until later in life, usually mid 20's to late 30's.

makes you wonder...

[mantera]

whether environmentalist might just claim this is due to global warming; i won't be surprised if they do!!!

Re:makes you wonder...

[mgs1000]

If we had only ratified Kyoto!

Re:makes you wonder...

[mantera]

you know... being an "AOL user" does not necessarily mean dumb, although i agree that geek snobs have a tendency to judge people according to tech knowledge and somehow have the misconception that unix knowledge is a universal and ultimate measure of IQ; "AOL user" might also mean...

1. Some guy with a family who runs a democratic household where the needs of a young kid for a somewhat safe "walled garden" with good parental controls and plenty of kid-safe content is at least as important as, if not more than, the self-gratifying feeling and bragging rights of running the latest debian or gentoo.
2. someone with certain sociopolitical conscience who thinks that supporting AOL Time Warner and its stable of responsible and free media outlets such as CNN, TNT, and the Cartoon Network, and until recently its support of Mozilla, is good considering the aggressive onslaught of their competition, Fox being the most notorious and morally dangerous, and until recently Microsoft.
3. other reasons...

Run! Hide!

[Ironix]

WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

Considering this activity is outside of the 11 year high in the cycle, I wonder if there is a chance that the sun may do something that may kill us all. Like shed its entire outer skin or something...

Re:Run! Hide!

[oiper]

I'm with you man! I got the truck fueled, raided guns and food from Walmart. Where do you want me to pick you up? We gotta find a cave fast!

Re:Run! Hide!

[HarveyBirdman]

Like shed its entire outer skin or something...

Dammit, Jim, it's a an 870,000 mile wide ball of fusing hydrogen, not a stripper.

Re:Run! Hide!

[iggymanz]

heh, the earth's climate has always been dominated by the Sun. It's been been hotter than it is now, and it's been much colder. The tiniest increase in output, and it's WaterWorld, baby!

Re:Run! Hide!

[pixelpusher220]

Stop that! My office mates are wondering why I'm laughing on the floor!

mod parent up Scotty!

Re:Run! Hide!

[Thuktun]

Considering this activity is outside of the 11 year high in the cycle,

According to NASA, this current cycle hit its midpoint in 2000. That's only three years ago and only about 1/4 of the way through the cycle, or 1/2 the way back to the nadir of solar activity. We're about as far from the peak as from the trough, so it's not inconceivable that we'd have this kind of activity now.

I am not an astronomer, of course.

I wonder if there is a chance that the sun may do something that may kill us all. Like shed its entire outer skin or something...

Does that mean I'd be spared the deadline pressure I'm currently under?

Re:Run! Hide!

[iggymanz]

more shoreline and more waterways == more places Big Cities can thrive. If you've driven from coast to coast, you know that MOST OF THE US is UNINHABITED. This would make more land USEFUL........bring it on, Sol!

From the article

[UrgleHoth]

The Sun cut loose with three severe flares in less than 24 hours through Monday morning

cut loose? Is thr journalist trying to make a gastrointestinal metaphor here?

Re:From the article

[c0bw3b]

Hmm, I was thinking of it as a thermonuclear money shot, myself.

Re:From the article

[ThrasherTT]

I think that is much more reasonable than the /. story's "the sun shot off" metaphor...

Historic Period?

[Grip3n]

Historic period in solar flares? Sorry, I might not be all that caught up on my solar flare monitoring, but how long have we been doing that exactly? It can't be more than in the last 50 years and considering the age of the subject in question, that's not even a drop in the bucket - its an atom in the bucket. Who knows? Perhaps this is a little more regular than we originally thought. We just started getting into this. I know if I had as much gas as the Sun I'd be doing a whole lot of belching too.

Re:Historic Period?

[Anonymous Coward]

Scientists have been using beryllium content in icebergs to trace the general prominence of sunspots and their activity over the last 1150 years. This activity exceeds any on that record as well.

Re:Historic Period?

[JamesD_UK]

Since 1976, see here.

Re:Historic Period?

[skarmor]

Sorry, I might not be all that caught up on my solar flare monitoring, but how long have we been doing that exactly?

Richard Christopher Carrington published his Observation of the Spots of the Sun in 1863. He was observing a group of sun spots when, "...two patches of intensely bright and white light broke out."

His description:

"I saw I was an unprepared witness of a very different affair. I therefore noted down the time by the chronometer, and seeing the outburst to be very rapidly on the increase, and being somewhat flurried by the surprise, I hastily ran to call some one to witness the exhibition with me, and on returning within 60 seconds, was mortified to find that it was already much changed and enfeebled. Very shortly afterwards the last trace was gone. In this lapse of 5 minutes, the two patches of light traversed a space of about 35,000 miles."

So I guess we've been monitoring solar flares for some 140 years...

Re:Historic Period?

[Gulthek]

We have samples from icebergs measuring beryllium-10, which give us a good picture of solar activity for the past couple thousand years or so.

Aside from that, it's a historic period in solar flares simply because we haven't seen it happen before. Just because we don't know how common this occurence is in the full grand scheme of things, doesn't mean that it isn't noteworthy when we see it for the first time!

Re:Historic Period?

[droovee]

Not entirely true. The CBC has an article today. A choice quote:

Direct observations of sunspots go back to the early 17th century, corresponding to the invention of the telescope.

To get data on sunspots from before observations were possible, Ilya Usoskin, a geophysicist who worked with colleagues at the University of Oulu in Finland and the Max Planck Institute in Germany, examined ice core samples from Greenland and Antarctica.

Re:Historic Period?

[pclminion]

Well, considering that the word "historic" means "within the realm of written records," then yes, this is the biggest event that has been recorded in writing. There's a reason we call the dinosaurs (as an example) "prehistoric" and not "historic." They came BEFORE written history. Since these flares are the largest recorded in written history, the term "historic" is apt.

So yes, the Sun has most likely had numerous PREhistoric solar flare events of this magnitude. But none in recorded history. It's a historic event.

Sincerely,
Your local anal-retentive

Re:Historic Period?

[kevlar]

Whats even more interesting is that there are fairly solid theories that solar flare activity is directly related to the mean global temperature. In other words, the green house effect may very well be *mostly* caused by the Sun, rather than CO2 in the atmosphere.

Re:Historic Period?

[Bytesmiths]

"Historic period in solar flares? Sorry, I might not be all that caught up on my solar flare monitoring, but how long have we been doing that exactly? It can't be more than in the last 50 years..."

That's what "history" means -- as long as humans have been keeping track. Otherwise, it's known as "prehistoric," as in dinosaurs and cave men.

Re:Historic Period?

[confused one]

we have detailed observations using telescopes and photographic plates going back around 150 years. 24hour monitoring with satellites only goes back a decade or two (yohkoh, soho, geos, etc.)

Re:Historic Period?

[TMB]

In other words, the green house effect may very well be *mostly* caused by the Sun, rather than CO2 in the atmosphere.

You know, I kind of doubt that, given that the DEFINITION of the greenhouse effect is THE TRAPPING OF HEAT BY CO2 IN THE ATMOSPHERE!

It's kind of like saying "Flat tires may very well be mostly caused by malfunctioning brakes, rather than not having any air in the tires." A flat tire can't be caused by anything other than not having air in the tires - that's what makes it a flat tire. Similarly, the greenhouse effect can't be caused by anything other than CO2 in the atmosphere - that's what makes it the greenhouse effect.

[TMB]

Re:Historic Period?

[TGK]

For the record, most environmentalists are less worried about the planet and more worried about you.

No one has any doubts that if human kind makes the biggest mess we can of this ball of mud that life will go on. The industrial companies are right, human kind is small change in the cycles of global climate.

Of course, when you're small change it doesn't take a whole hell of a lot to exterminate you and most everything like you.

No one thinks we're gonna wreck the planet, but aside from Al Gore, most of us wouldn't want to see Florida under water.

Humankind probably won't make any major changes in the global scheme of things, but the minor changes we make could cause untold havoc, suffering, and chaos... at least on the human scale.

So yes... the Sun might be the major cause of global warming.... in much the same way that your heater is the major thing that heats your house.

Does this mean it's a good idea to set the drapes on fire?

Re:Historic Period?

[kevlar]

Correction: The WARMING OF THE PLANET CURRENTLY BELIEVED BY GRANOLA EATING CRUNCHIES TO BE SOLELY CAUSED BY CO2 IN THE ATMOSPHERE may be the result of an increase in Flux from the Sun.

Regardless, I think you know what I was getting at.

Re:Historic Period?

[Evil Adrian]

Recorded history.

Re:Historic Period?

[myowntrueself]

"No one has any doubts that if human kind makes the biggest mess we can of this ball of mud that life will go on."

As I understand it;

a couple of good-sized cobalt bombs (IIRC a nuke encased in cobalt) would effectively sterilise the planet; the radioactive cobalt would find its way into every ecosystem eventually (except *maybe* deep-crust bacteria colonies several miles down).

The cobalt cycle is very important to organic life. Radioactive cobalt will kill anything.

(I wonder how many of these the Russians or the USA has in their arsenal?)

Re:Historic Period?

[Pentagram]

If by 'fairly solid' you mean that the idea is still being considered, then yes. If you mean that it's a leading theory, then not at all. The great majority of climatologists consider climate change to be mostly an effect of increased CO2 emissions. If you look at a graph of how temperature has changed over the last couple of centuries, and compare it to graphs of CO2 emissions and sunspot activity, you can see that there is a strong correlation with the former and no obvious correlation at all to the latter.

Re:Historic Period?

[Froggy]

In other words, the green house effect may very well be *mostly* caused by the Sun, rather than CO2 in the atmosphere.

uh -- nitpick: the "greenhouse effect", per se, is definitely down to CO2 and other such insulating gases in the atmosphere, keeping solar heat inside and warming up the planet. Pretty much nobody denies that this effect exists; it's the main reason Venus is so hot (It's closer to the sun than we are, but not *that* much closer) and Mars is so cold (we're closer to the sun, but etc.) Back when science fiction was young, before the temperature of these planets had been measured, it wasn't all that silly to postulate life on Venus and Mars.

But it's still an open question as to whether *global warming* (in the sense of recent change in global average temperature) is a real phenomenon, and if so how much of it is due to the greenhouse effect, and if that proportion is significant then how much of it is due to human activity.

Did you mean "global warming"?

Re:Historic Period?

[kevlar]

Here is a graph of CO2 ppmv and the correlating lower atomospheric temperature for the last 2000 years as determined from glaciers.
Graph Here

As you can see, the Temperature is highly erratic, while CO2 concentrations have been nearly static until recently. We have yet to see a difinitive trend. Don't let the number of plotted points towards the present confuse your judgement.... we have yet to see "hot" days like there were less than 500 years ago.

Re:Historic Period?

[barakn]

Direct observations of sunspots go back to the early 17th century, corresponding to the invention of the telescope.

Who makes this shit up? It doesn't take a telescope to observe sunspots, which is why the Chinese were doing it as early as 28 B.C.. Eurocentric bastards....

Re:Historic Period?

[stefanb]

[T]here are fairly solid theories that solar flare activity is directly related to the mean global temperature.

Care to share some references? Google turns up just some press releases about one paper, and none of the pop science publications have picked it up... and I suspect the New Scientist would not mind running such a story.

The one paper, according to the press release, sees similiar coefficients in Levy distributions between solar flare activity and global temperature. However, that team didn't say there was a correlation between temperature and solar flare activity. I don't quite see the "directly related" bit that you postulate in there...

Re:Let's Get This Out of the Way...

[herrvinny]

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of solar flares... aimed directly at the Earth!

"Historic period"

[rde]

In all the hundreds of years we've been going blind observing the sun, never have so many satellites been in danger. But seriously, folks. What are the odds that this sort of thing has been happening every few solar maximums, and we never noticed it before?

At least this time I might see an aurora. Froze my arse off two nights running and all I got was, well, a frozen arse.

3 flares in 24 hours, BAH!

[gasgesgos]

From the article:The Sun cut loose with three severe flares in less than 24 hours


That's nothing special, I've cut loose with three severe flares in one hour before!

Although I didn't cause pretty lights in the sky, I just cleared the room :(

Re:3 flares in 24 hours, BAH!

[the_consumer]

The solution to both your problems: a match. Though the lights may not be in the sky, in a dark room they'll reflect off the ceiling.

It's not the # of flares .. it's

[jaxdahl]

It's the size of these flares that's unusual. Never have astronomers seen 2 Jupiter sized sunspots tranversing the sun at the same time. The number of sunspots is about normal for this time in the 11 year solar cycle. Here's a nice summary page: http://www.n3kl.org/sun/noaa.html

Re:It's not the # of flares .. it's

[JamesD_UK]

This page from Nasa's Astronomy Picture of the day site shows some amazing images of these sun spots.

Re:It's not the # of flares .. it's

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

Yes, they're larger than everything we've previously observed but given our incredibly limited amount of data and the fact that the sun has been around for quite some time, we don't know whether or not it is unusual. It could be unusual or there could be a much longer cycle that we are completely unaware of due to our limited vision.

Re:It's not the # of flares .. it's

[jafuser]

The first of the three was a Class X8 flare.

Considering the sun nearly punched through to the next magnitude class, I wonder if it's even got a label?

I only see classes A, B, C, M, and X in the graph on spaceweather.com. If this keeps up we might need a label for the next order of magnitude.

Re:It's not the # of flares .. it's

[barakn]

The number of sunspots is about normal for this time in the 11 year solar cycle

No. Here's the monthly averaged daily SSNs and here's the last six daily SSNs (scroll a third of the way down to see 'em). The daily SS numbers for the six day period ending on Oct. 28 were 122, 160, 139, 191, 238, and 230. The number dropped to 76 today, which is roughly normal this late in the cycle, but that's because the huge spots are rotating out of view (not to worry, they'll be back in 2 weeks). Once the monthly averages are updated, we'll see that this solar cycle has a peculiar third peak (and even a second peak is somewhat unusual).

Re:It's not the # of flares .. it's

[jaxdahl]

Actually, all flares bigger than M class are labeled X. The one we had the week before last was a X17.2. The largest flare detected that I know of is X20.0, but there are more estimates that peg that one higher at X22 or X23 due to the limitations of the original detector.

Re:It's not the # of flares .. it's

[Anonymous Coward]

While we've never seen two Jupiter size sun spots before, doesn't mean it has not happened. Remember, before a few years ago, we did not have the instrumentation that we do now in observing the sun.

M42gal AKA St.

Re:It's not the # of flares .. it's

[barakn]

The science of observing sunspots is thousands of years old. Accurate and mostly continuous records have been kept for centuries. So "a few years ago" is a meaningless statement. The only necessary equipment is an eye.

Re:It's not the # of flares .. it's

[jaxdahl]

There's actually charts dating back to the 1750s. It's pretty easy to trace a picture of the sun and perceive sunspots with a telescope displaying light onto a paper.

Time to upgrade...

[JamesD_UK]

my tinfoil hat...
... and underwear.

Bad feelings.

[Krapangor]

When you think about the theory that the dinosaurs died due to a massive amount of solar flares.

The most activity in 1150 years

[Bendebecker]

Another good article about this here.

Guilt-free fun

[Malor]

One thing that I'm really enjoying about the solar flares, unlike most Earthly climate events, is that we can be absolutely certain we didn't cause it via pollution or global warming or what have you. When I see the hurricanes and tornadoes and big wildfires, there's always this nagging worry in the back of my mind that it might not be happening if we weren't spitting out all the pollution.

But we have no effect whatsoever on the Sun, so I can sit back and watch the show guilt-free. :-)

Re:Guilt-free fun

[HarveyBirdman]

When I see the hurricanes and tornadoes and big wildfires, there's always this nagging worry in the back of my mind that it might not be happening if we weren't spitting out all the pollution.

Oh, yeah, they NEVER had hurricanes, tornadoes and big wildfires before the industrial age. Just the occasional divine flood, angry volcano god and periodic smiting of the sodomites.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[kannibal_klown]

I've been wondering about this. What about this scenario:

Granted, in terms of magentic and electromagnetic fields, comparing earth to the sun is like comparing a flea to, well, the sun. The difference is immense.

However, we've been generating a lot more EM over the last decade with more-and-more technology.

Now, what if all of this is turning earth into a lightning rod? Think about it, we're attracting all of this with all of tech we've got, and some that we don't know about (scientific experiments, cyclotrons, and government projects).

I'm not saying we're pulling this from the sun, but we might be holding a "Kick Me!" sign, and the sun's just aiming at us because of it.

Then again, my degree is in COMPUTER science, so this may be completely impossible.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[meta-monkey]

Yeah, there just isn't enough smiting going on these days. When was the last time anybody got smote? Too long ago for my tastes, I tell ya!

Re:Guilt-free fun

[(startx)]

and I'm sitting here wondering if these solar flares are really effecting our weather here as well. It's Nov. 4, and I'm sitting outside in shorts and a t-shirt because we're in the mid-70s in Missouri!

Re:Guilt-free fun

[gorilla]

The direction of a flare is determined by the direction that the portion of the sun is pointing at when it's released. That's not going to be the closest point to the Earth, because the Earth has to go around in it's orbit for a couple of days before the flare hits us.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[confused one]

Dude, give it up: The Sun (yes our Sun) has a measured variability of ~3%. How much difference do you think 3% increase (or decrease) in sunlight affects the planet? Do you honestly think anything we do has any effect of significance compared to this? I don't think so.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[confused one]

Uh, no.

consider the magnitude of the solar flare from a Jupiter sized sunspot compared to the size of our tiny insignificant planet. Consider the distance from the Earth to the Sun. If you think anything we're doing is having any effect on the Sun, you're lost.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[Abcd1234]

To provide a counter example, here in Edmonton Alberta, Canada, it's been average for this time of year (-10 to -15C) with lots of snow. Although we had a ridiculously warm fall, up until about a week ago.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[ViolentGreen]

Yeah. I didn't read this article in particular but I did read aonther on it. IIRC, these flares arent' poitneed toward eatrh.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[DNS-and-BIND]

Uh, it's the verb tense. Present, smite. Past, smote. Past participle, smitten. If you're going to get into a grammar war with me, at least be right.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[madcow_ucsb]

And yet we're in the 50s here in California. Something seems to have gone horribly wrong...

Re:Guilt-free fun

[Woodmeister]

Uhh, except the Earth will barely move (with respect to angular position) in only a couple of days... think: if it takes one YEAR (365 days) for the Earth to orbit the sun (rotation of the Earth is unimportant here) then in two days the earth will move (2/365)*360 degrees ((2/365)*2pi radians if you prefer ;), or a whopping ~1 degree. Given the size of these CME's and their area of effect, If the Sun is pointing at us when it ejects, then we _will_ get the brunt of it.

I'll shut up now...

Re:Guilt-free fun

[epiphani]

Just because we didnt cause it doesnt mean someone _else_ didnt. *cough*

Re:Guilt-free fun

[Feztaa]

Yeah, that's about right.

Last year, our (Edmonton) first day of snow was the 22nd of October, this year it was the 29th... it was bad, I was working at the time, I went to work with a light jacket, and there was a good inch of snow by the time my shift was over.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[srw]

> (2/365)*360 degrees ((2/365)*2pi radians if you prefer ;), or a whopping ~1 degree

Uhh, that's ~2 degrees. That's where we get degrees from... back from when a year was actually 360 days. (Yes, that part was a troll.)

Re:Guilt-free fun

[JDevers]

Try to do the same thing tomorrow...will be colder :)

Odd weather patterns are just that, odd...nothing really scary going on...just a little warmer than normal. Tomorrow it will be back to normal.

Oh, and today it was 84 in my little part of northern Arkansas.

Re:Guilt-free fun

[Woodmeister]

Damn, just when I thought I was being clever...

Good point though. Perhaps in my mind I was doing an "int degrees;" as opposed to "float degrees;" ;P

Lets slashdot the Sun

[G4from128k]

I suggest that nerds everywhere strip off their clothes and go outside. The resulting flare of brightness should knock those coronal mass ejections away from the Earth.

Either we do that or we cover the planet in SPF 45 lotion.

Re:Lets slashdot the Sun

[kin_korn_karn]

Either we do that or we cover the planet in SPF 45 lotion.
Excellent idea! I'll start on the porn stars right now

Re:Lets slashdot the Sun

[reboot246]

That most cetainly would work, but it would probably blind anybody who happened to be looking. Even in the rare cases where they weren't blinded, they would be scarred for life.

Historic Period?

[pizen]

This is quite a historic period for solar activity.

How so? The Sun has been around a lot longer than we've been monitoring it. This could be nothing in the Sun's history.

All this sun action..

[grasshoppa]

...and I bet you geek STILL don't get a tan. :)

Re:All this sun action..

[o'reor]

Hmmm, nice tans to get with all those protons and X-Ray photons running loose... :-)

Re:Guilt-/*&?%*?/

[sreid]

does it affect affect &?*?23% web (_*&_(&*

Got Sol?

[dukeluke]

Well, I must say that I'm slightly more interested in the solar activities of recent due to my Astronomy class at college.

This is a very interesting time for the scientist within each of us - we can see first hand the importance of Earth's magnetic field - as well as the cause/effect of the solar flare upon our power plants, satellite dishes, and yes - our Astronaut up in the International Space Station.

Re:Got Sol?

[KojakBang]

What sort of radiation dose would an astronaut receive if he was located outside the Van Allen Belt?

Solar flares were a serious concern to the Apollo astronauts, who were at risk while traveling to the Moon.

Solar flares are most deadly because of the proton flux, which would be blocked, but which travels much slower than lightspeed. If you see X-rays from a solar flare, it tells you that you have an hour or so to get into a shielded environment before the big storm hits.

Re:Got Sol?

[Thud457]

I've seen some vauge mentions on some of the news pages about the astronauts on ISS having to retreat to one particular module when the flare hits. But they don't say how long they need to stay there. The last week or so, you'd think they've been holed up an awful lot of the time.

Re:Got Sol?

[dukeluke]

Thanks - very informative, and I appreciate the feedback concerning the timing. I do know that the astronauts have a window of warning - yet, are we to believe that even though they're outside the Magnetic Shield of Earth - that the shielding upon the ISS is strong enough to withstand this sort of onslaught?

Just something to think about. I wouldn't particularly enjoy the thought of being...microwaved.

I used to think nothing of CMEs...

[TheTranceFan]

...but this time (the last big one that happened on a Friday) actually took out my modest little Linux server at home, which consequently needed a restart. It was the first time I could remember a solar event actually affecting me directly.

/lesson learned - putting on tinfoil hat

Re:I used to think nothing of CMEs...

[shoppa]

How do you know it was the solar flare?

Kernel Panic: too many solar flares

Re:I used to think nothing of CMEs...

[chefbb]

Cause it was running Linux.

Duh. ;)

aurora

[Rumagent]

I always find it fascinating, when the universe demonstrates just how small and insignificant we really are... that, and watching aurora is a great way of getting kids interested in astronomy.

Re:aurora

[pclminion]

We're small, maybe, but not insignificant. With high probability, no other star within a thousand lightyears has an orbiting planet which supports intelligent life. Our star, Sol, has the priviledge of being OBSERVED. Sure, lots of stars have solar mass ejections. But not many stars can claim that they IMPRESSED anyone with them, since there was nobody there to see it.

Without us, the Sun would simply be farting in the wind... But with humans around, its explosive proclivities can be truly appreciated.

Re:aurora

[jafuser]

Sure, lots of stars have solar mass ejections. But not many stars can claim that they IMPRESSED anyone with them, since there was nobody there to see it.

Ah, but if a star has a solar mass ejection, and there's nobody there to observe it, does it make a sound?

Re:aurora

[TGK]

It's in space.... it doesn't make a sound even if there is someone there to observe it.

Re:Let's Get This Out of the Way...

[Anonymous Cow herd]

1. Coalesce several trillion (quadrillion?) tons of matter until it begins a nuclear fusion reaction. 2. Shoot several billion tons of ionized particles towards earth 3. ??? 4. Profit!!!

Bennifer

[HarveyBirdman]

What did we have to sacrifice to prevent this again?? i can't read mayan..

Oddly enough, we have to sacrifice Ben and JLo.

The Mayan line in question is "Big head, snake, rock shaped thing, potato with teeth, something that looks like a broken Trane air conditioning unit, something with three legs and four ears, a bigger potato with teeth and breasts, Jabba The Hut, another big head, a pile of little tiny heads, a medium sized head with a smaller head next to it, an aborted fetus someone inflated with an air pump."

The rough translation is "annoying couple (in unity) with mighty hair and (ass) who commit crime of that (terrible) Gigli."

Yes, there's a heiroglyph for "Gigli".

Hey, they were WAY ahead of their time.

Related Link

Anyone see anything?

[Otter]

What's up with the Northern Lights we've been promised? I'd love to see them without an expensive trip to freeze my ass off in Nunavut but haven't seen any useful information on when and where to look.

Anyone seen them after these recent storms? Is there a good site for information?

Re:Anyone see anything?

[FrostedWheat]

Here you go:

http://www.sec.noaa.gov/pmap/index.html

That shows the current aurora activity for both poles. Click on the one nearest to you and wait until there's some activity near you :)

Even if the activity looks quite far from you, check anyway. We had lots of aurora visable here even tho the map showed it about a hundred miles away.

Re:Anyone see anything?

[barzok]

It helps if there are no clouds. I've missed out on the show because it's been raining for about a week.

Re:Anyone see anything?

[Bob(TM)]

Here's the Auroral Activity Map from the Space Environment Center.

At least one of the recent geomagnetic events began just after dawn where I live, so that chance was pretty much shot. Others were overcast or inconvenient (check out the GOES magnetometer for times when the magnetic field was disturbed)

It helps to be in a really dark area - light pollution in a city will just about kill any chance of seeing it. The only time I ever saw it (the '89 geomagnetic storm event), I went out specifically determined to try and catch a glipmse (I was watching the data pretty closely). I drove 30 minutes away from the nearest city lightsource and waited in the dark about two hours total (two shifts). I was just about to call it quits (it was after midnight) and it appeared suddenly. Ten minutes later, it was gone.

Re:Anyone see anything?

[Otter]

Thanks! That's basically what I was looking for. I liked this graph of the recent three day window of activity. Looks like things were gunning this morning almost well enough to see in Massachusetts, had it not been a) cloudy and b) daylight. (Thanks, also, to the helpful AC's telling me to LOOK UP! AT NIGHT!)

Re:Anyone see anything?

[GigsVT]

I saw it in Virginia USA the other day. It wasn't that spectacular here or anything, just a reddish glow with streaks that slowly faded in and out.

Re:Anyone see anything?

[lotho brandybuck]

We saw the Aurora in Portland, Oregon Tuesday night last week. Very beautiful.. worth a little
temporary ass-freezing-off.

We got pictures, I posted them .

A great site for information is at [Solar Terrestrial Dispatch]
they also have a photo gallery.

The sun rotates every 27 days.. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next month. I'd hate to own a satellite right about now.

Re:Anyone see anything?

[jafuser]

There's a picture of aurora on spaceweather.com taken by someone in Orlando, Florida. In addition, I saw an aurora during the previous cycle about a hundred miles south of Orlando. It was mostly just a reddish haze that slowly changed in intensity, but it was reported the next day as a rare aurora event.

I'm even further south now, so I obviously don't watch for them much. Perhaps I may keep a closer eye on the spaceweather site to see if I can catch one again =)

Re:Anyone see anything?

[FrostedWheat]

Thanks, also, to the helpful AC's telling me to LOOK UP! AT NIGHT!)

hehe, at least they where on-topic :)

I have to admit that when I first saw the aurora last week, I mistook it for cloud. It's not always that easy to spot by looking, sometimes it's very fuzzy and pale. Later in the night it did get a lot stronger, and more colourful. By then it was hard to miss.

Ditto here

[phorm]

We had a server which had quite a nifty uptime, but was locked without responding (no video, network connection, etc) and required a hard reboot in order to come online. Normally I wouldn't believe this "Solar Flares affecting computers" stuff, but there's not really any other obvious reason for it (ran fine after a reboot and FSCK)

AAAAHHHHH!!!!

[stienman]

THE SUN IS EXPLODING!!!!!

RUN AWAY! RUN AWA - What? oh, yeah, that's a good thing. Sorry 'bout that folks. Won't happen again. I'll just go find another catastrophe to panic about...

-Adam

Re:AAAAHHHHH!!!!

[Nynaeve]

I guess that soon we'll finally be able to answer the question: If the sun were to explode, would we feel the sudden loss of gravity immediately or would we feel it 8min 23sec later?

Re:AAAAHHHHH!!!!

[confused one]

The Earth's gravity won't change. The CG of the Sun / Earth system might slightly. We'd know 8min 23sec later -- the same time we see it happen.

My mother-in-law's theory...

[elwoodblues16]

My fiance's Mom has her own theory as to why they sun is 'wigging out'.
She says it's because a meteor crashed into the sun.
I've had my work cut out for me, trying to explain how 'crashing' a ping-pong ball into Lake Michigan isn't going to do much.

Re:My mother-in-law's theory...

[stratjakt]

I'd imagine stuff gets pulled into the sun all the time, it's gravity is immense.

I'd also imagine that anything pulled into it is completely vaporized before it gets too close.

Tell your mother in law it's probably because god is angry, and that he's probably angry about something that she did.

Re:My mother-in-law's theory...

[Thud457]

Interesting, read section 3, "Meteor Streaks"

and the recent high temps...

[holzp]

And the recent high temps have nothing to do with it at all.
nothing to see here, the sun is not going nova, please move along....

What George Dubbya said...

[KojakBang]

We will not be scared of these "solar evil-doers." The Sun is part of an "axis of stellar evil" that we must stamp out. We will make no distinction between solar flares, and the stars that sponsor these flares. Our nation will launch a campaign to stamp out all stellar terrorism in our galaxy. These nukyular furnaces of fear will no longer terrorize our nation, or Texas. Anybody wanna peanut?

Re:What George Dubbya said...

[Alien Conspiracy]

Can you make that a pretzel?

*waits 20 seconds*

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:DOOMS DAY

[MImeKillEr]

If the sun were to explode, it'd expand first. When it did this, it would expand beyond the distance that we are from it.

In other words, there'd be no chance of us freezing to death - we would've been vaporized a long time ago.

The only good thing is, once it started we'd never know.

I vaguely recall seeing something on a science channel some number of years ago about this. The sun will eventually expand, doubling or tripling in size and then implode, creating a black hole.

Almost

[Brown]

In fact, the battle of Hastings was between the Normans (from Normandy in France, though of Norse - 'viking' - ancestry), and the English Anglo-Saxons.

The Anglo-Saxons were Germanic peoples who colonised England after the departure of the Roman legions (though they had been raiding previously). It appears the celtic britons integrated with them (as slaves/lower-caste), and some norse got mixed in as well (the Danes ruled much of England not long before, and there'd been several danish Kings of England 50-odd years previously).

The name 'England' comes from one of the main Germanic peoples who colonised England during the 'dark ages' after Rome, the Angles - the other main ones being the Saxons and the Jutes.

All in all, Western European history of the times got kindof complicated - which as very little to do with sunspots of course...

Re:Almost

[barakn]

Western European history of the times got kindof complicated - which as very little to do with sunspots of course...

So you're saying the Maunder Minimum and the resultant Little Ice Age didn't effect Western European history?

Re:Almost

[Bendebecker]

England:
The inhabitants of the Iberian Pennsula (modern day Spain and Portugul) migrating into modern day France and then spreading onto the Isle of Britian, first reached the island in prehistoric times several hundred if not several thousand years before the Greeks even reached Italy. By the time the Romans met them, they had splintered into different cultures, the ones on the continent bieng called the guals and the ones in the britian called the celts. The romans thus became the second cultural force to impact England, and their occupation left its footprint on english heritage. After they left in the 300's AD, or more appropriately were abandoned by the Emporer Heronius(sic?), the Isle did not see another major influx until the two major danish invasions that occured between 600 and 800 AD. These invaders drove the celts to the Island of Ireland and the country of scotland and the preceded to continue there expansion onto the continent, invading France (most notably the normans, who invaded and later settled an area named after them called Normandy). Oddly enough in 1066, the normans re-invaded England under the command of William the Conquerer bringing with him French influences until his sucessors were driven out. Thus, English heritage can be traced back to the celts, the romans, the danish/scandanavian invaders, and the french. Sorry about the spelling.

Re:Almost

[Brown]

The 'Danish' invasions cited were partially danish - the Jutes were, and arguably the Angles, with the Saxons being germanic. At the time, though, there wasn't really a Danish people to speak of.

Also, there's strong evidence (genetic amongst other things) that the celts were not driven from England, but were absorbed into Anglo-Saxon culture - Ireland already had a celtic culture, and was actually known to raid the british coast as well - the most famous example being the story St Patrick - who was Welsh, but captured and taken to Ireland as a slave.

The Normans were, I believe, of Norse (Norwegian) rather than Danish decent, though the difference isn't great, and they'd been heavily influenced by the French culture by then.
From around the time of Alfred, the Danes had indeed invaded large areas of England (formalised into the Danelaw), and there'd been Scandanavian kings of england Eg. King Canute, but these were not actually Norman - by then, Norman had become distinct from Norse/Danish.

As for William's successors being driven out, I'm not sure what this refers to - by the time there was a major change in powerbase, the Normans had become integrated into the English anyway as the aristocracy.

I should write a book maybe :-)

Re:Almost

[Brown]

Western European history of the times got kindof complicated - which as very little to do with sunspots of course...

So you're saying the Maunder Minimum and the resultant Little Ice Age didn't effect Western European history?

Err, No, I'm saying that the Western european history of the times - i.e. late dark ages/ early middle ages - probaly wasn't affected much, as the Maunder Minumum was 1640-1710, a long time after 1066! Even the earliest effects of the Little Ice age weren't til the 14th century..

Re:Almost

[barakn]

Yeah, "of the times." And I'd probably be going out on a limb if I connected the Medieval Warm Period (10th to 14th century) with the solar activity of the time. But since the connection of the sun and climate is still not understood very well, a blanket statement like "which has very little to do with sunspots of course" doesn't sit easily with me.

Nice Headline

[Captain McCrank]

Sun on Fire, Unleashes 3 More Major Flares

Scott McNealy is such a fucking loose cannon. When will his handlers reign in his hockey-rage?

FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN, PLEASE STOP SCOTT!

Re:Nice Headline

[Peyna]

It is in all journalist's genes to make horrible puns in as many headlines as possible.

Dark Matters

[tds67]

Sunspots are dark, cooler regions of the solar surface. They are areas of pent-up magnetic activity, caps on upwelling matter and energy that can blow at any moment.

How do they know this? Doesn't it make more sense to conclude that the darks spots are where dark matter is colliding with the sun, and that this accounts for the violent energy release? Duh!

Re:Dark Matters

[ViolentGreen]

Well one way that they could know this is by examining thermal images of the sun. There you see how the heat is distributed.

Besides, I'm no physicist or anything but I am pretty sure that dark matter is more or less a figure or speach.

It wasn't my fault!

[r_j_prahad]

What a wonderful coincidence, this event is what we can blame for all that XXX porn on our office PCs. "Hey boss, it was a solar flare put those on my hard drive, I didn't click on any of those websites, honest!"

When is Bush going

[praedor]

to pull his head out and finally declare the Sun a terrorist? We should be lobbing bombs back at the Sun for firing on us not just once, but 3 or 4 times! Direct shots, no glancing blows. This obvious aggression against the US cannot be tolerated anymore.

Nuke the Sun!

hh

Which, in turn...

[drakaan]

makes me wonder whether any environmentalists have a sense of humor. Let's see...nope. Doesn't look like it.

Guilty Fun

[Mad Man]

Re: Guilt-free fun

Smitten. If you're going to conjugate archaic irregular verbs, do it right. Beget, begat, begotten!

Every time you masturbate, God smittens a kitten. Please, think of the kittens.

Re:Let's Get This Out of the Way...

[kalidasa]

"I for one, welcome our new solar flare overlords." "In Soviet Russia, flare suns you." Am I missing any?

Yeah, you're missing "can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of those babies?

Re:Let's Get This Out of the Way...

[sbowles]

My igloo is directly under the hole in the ozone layer...

You Incensitive Clod!

dark side of the sun

[kayen_telva]

so how do we know there arent a dozen more that spooged off the "dark side"..

we only see the ones that go in our direction right ??

Re:DOOMS DAY

[kalidasa]

The sun is too small to form a black hole: a star must be at least 3 solar masses for an event horizon to form. The sun will expand into a red giant, then erupt as a simple nova (not a supernova), then the remnant will be a dwarf that will eventually burn out.

Spooky...

[BigZaphod]

I'm reading this book right now and this is how the whole "end of the world" stuff starts....

Pollution choked out the skies?

[SuperKendall]

Dude, pollution had nothing to do with it!! You know damn well we blackened the skies to cut of power to the machines.

Stupid environmentalists. You guys never can keep your facts straight.

Re:DOOMS DAY

[Nos.]

I vaguely recall seeing something on a science channel some number of years ago about this. The sun will eventually expand, doubling or tripling in size and then implode, creating a black hole.

Close. Our sun will expand, encompassing the earth. However, our sun is not massive enough to form a black hole. I've seen stats saying a star needs to be at least eight solar masses, to stats saying three solar masses, but everything seems to agree that our sun is not massive enough to form a black hole.

Re:Peloponnesian war

[Trolling4Dollars]

...or the invasion of the Goths...

Dood... get your history straight. The goths didn't come about until the 1980s when Siouxie and the Banshees invaded. ;P

Re:Peloponnesian war

[the_2nd_coming]

the Crusades occurred AFTER the Roman empire fell, you can't count that holy roman empire crap...that was a ruse by the catholic church to keep power and lands. the political power of Europe went to the new kings of the various regions.

as for Rome throwing people in pits to fight animals, like I said, the world is a better place because they existed, but their tactics sucked.

www.spaceweather.com

[poszi]

The aurora activity is subsiding and there is little probabilility of northern lights at middle lattitudes. However, the sunspots were huge and it is likely they will be still somewhat active in two weeks after they transit over the far side of the sun. Check link

Re:The radiators blown!

[letxa2000]

Red Dawn, 1984.

Go ahead and forward me your credit card number, I'll charge you the buck. :)

we're doomed.

[fikx]

I'm now convinced. aliens are messing with our sun to take pot shots at us. someone get hubble to start looking for them floating near the sun! the end is nigh....time to stock up on duct tape and beef jerky...

Re:we're doomed.

[garysears]

ahh, but grasshopper, you will BECOME beef jerky.

or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

Solar Observations

[evilpenguin]

I'm no solar scientist, but I don't think it is even remotely reasonable for anyone to say anything about the sun is "unprecedented." The percentage of the sun's life that human beings have been observing has to be less than 0.01%

Maybe everything we've seen up to now has been atypical and this represents a return to the norm.

Re:Solar Observations

[Jerf]

Why pull a number out of your ass when you can pull a number off of the back of an envelope? ;-)

10,000 years of the human race / 10,000,000,000 years of the sun existing =~ .0001% .

I pulled the sun's age from memory and where you draw the line for "the human race" is somewhat a matter of choice, but it should be within a magnitude and a half, which is all that matters here.

Gets even worse if you want to talk about humans really observing the sun and not merely looking at it; guesstimate 100 years and drop another two factors of magnitude off that number for .000001% of the sun's life.

Re:Let's Get This Out of the Way...

[Clubber Lang]

ones you've missed that I've not seen added already:


The Sun^H^H^H BSD is dying
Wow, I bet you could really make some hot grits with that
If that thing blows it'll be bigger than even goatsecx guy
..... truely a celestial icon
something about Natalie Portman...

That should about cover it I think

Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[Omega]

Doesn't anyone else see the correlation between Arnold Schwarzenegger becoming governor of California, the Yankees losing the World Series to the Florida Marlins and the repeated solar flares? I'm counting at least 3 horsemen of the apocalypse here.

Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[escher]

GW Bush. There's your fourth.

Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[Lord_Slepnir]

We still need Microsoft Linux, so we'll be safe for a while.

Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[csnydermvpsoft]

Actually, God was planning to destroy the earth during the 9th inning of the 7th game of the Cubs-Red Sox World Series. However, both teams failed their missions, so God has to do something with all of the energy He's been collecting.

Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[Wakkow]

Don't forget Southern California burning down. Or as SNL referred to it: "Two weeks after Arnold was voted governor, God casted his vote".

Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[neafevoc]

You forgot about iPod for Windows and FreeBSD coming back from the dead with 4.9 :)

Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[Jugalator]

Bill Gates ran a demo of Longhorn at PDC just days ago, revealing heaps of new information about the coming... savior? :-)

Re:Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[mcc]

We still need Microsoft Linux, so we'll be safe for a while.

What, isn't this close enough???

(Of course, that's still just a rumor founded in unsubstantiated conjecture based on a vague press release, but you NEVER KNOW...)

Re:Question for the non-science challeneged..

[confused one]

A virgin (conveniently available on /.) and all of your enemies must be offered in sacrifice.

1000 years too soon.

[blizzardsoup]

In other news the Hubble telescope has picked up a large, black, domino shaped object near the sun whose dimensions are 1x4x9

Arthur C. Clarke was off by 1000 years.

Re:1000 years too soon.

[iggymanz]

naw, he was right on about the year, just wrong about how Jupiter is going to be touched off.....the real plan is to use Sol to ignite Jupiter, to sterilize the system of primates first.

Inconstant Moon

[The Fun Guy]

All this talk about massive solar flares makes me think of "Inconstant Moon", by Larry Niven. It's a great short story about a guy in L.A. who is amazed by how incredibly bright the moon one evening. Bright enough to read by, so bright it's painful to look at directly. He realizes that it's the reflected light of the sun, gone nova, and that he has only a couple of hours until the shock wave hits. A great read.

Watch the skies....

Re:Inconstant Moon

[confused one]

Not to mention the fact that everyone on the day side of the planet has already been cooked by the radiation.

"We haven't been able to contact anyone on the other side of the planet" -- I seem to remember that in there somewhere.

Re:Inconstant Moon

[The Fun Guy]

PLOT SPOILER AHEAD

"...some lesser (but still devastating) event."

Ummmm, yeah, see, he just *thought* it was a nova event - it turned out to have been a big solar flare. (That's why all of the recent solar flares made me think of this story, get it?) The fact that it's a flare, rather than a nova, makes for an ironic twist: instead of dying quickly and happily in his girlfriend's arms, they both have to live on and try to survive in the wreckage of a brutalized planet, with human civilization having been smashed back down to pre-industrialization level. It's a case of a less devastating event causing more misery than the more. I didn't give out that info because I didn't want to have to put a SPOILER warning in my post.... but since it's hard to respond to an AC offline, there you have it.

Re:Inconstant Moon

[srn_test]

Well, no.

It turns out to be a _huge_ flare, so he won't die, just all the people on the hemisphere facing the sun.

It'd be a lot more obvious these days; first all the satelites would fry as they crossed the terminator, plus we'd lose telecomms and so on as the sun rose.

I weep for our educational system.

[overunderunderdone]

It was the conclusion of a period of war between the Saxons and the Normans, and the start of the Anglo-Saxon race that would eventually found a little colony called America...
Norman and Saxon, BTW, are shorthands of the ancient terms for northman and southman.

Well at least you have the date and the names of the leaders right. And half credit for Norman coming from "north man"

Re:Let's Get This Out of the Way...

[happyfrogcow]

1. more solar flares
2. a tan Natalie Portman
3. ???
4. hot grits in your pants!! (if that's not profit, i don't know what is!)

Yikes!

[vjmurphy]

Between good old Sol shooting off flares and Jupiter's mystery spot, I'm thinking I might want to be somewhere else while the Monolith eats Jupiter and the Sun explodes.

Sigh, guess I'll just have to buy better sunscreen.

LOL

[lonesome phreak]

I was just thinking the exact same thing...some movie where they have to "shut down the flare activity on the sun". But theres an Evil Villain who wants to shut it down completely. Bruce Willis saves the day, and reactivates the sun after tossing the Evil Villian into it.

I have no idea how the sun would stay together if it was "shut down", what type of technology it would take to do something like that (we'll just use some small "alien device", like a painted briefcase) but that's not important. If the movie The Core can make it to the box office...

The scene would just be the sun going out, turning into some black mass of "sun matter"...maybe some exotically frozen matter. The alien device would draw the energy out of it by floating outside the spaceship and doing the alien device dance (like in 2010 when jupiter gets eaten, or ST:TMP, or any like sci-fi). But the Evil Villian would make it completly shut the sun off, and take the briefcase to use it to turn himself into God or something completly meglomaniacly insane. I mean, your shutting the Sun off so you would have to be pretty crazy and really wealthy. Perhaps make him the last of the Pharohs and he is going to really become a God or some crap.

Anyway, that's my story line with this post.

Re:LOL

[SpryGuy]

Wasn't this exactly the plot of Start Trek: Generations?

Re:LOL

[fr2asbury]

We don't need to shut it down, just build a giant reflective space shield out of unused AOL CDs.

Re:LOL

[Josh Booth]

Only the unused ones because the used AOL CD's still need to be rewound before we use them again. Damn kids! Be Kind, Please Rewind!

Re:LOL

[lyphorm]

Well, there was this movie...

Sun on fire?

[Tony Hoyle]

Well I should hope so, otherwise we'd be in deep doodoo.

'Obvious headline of the month'!

Funny line in article

[clausiam]

More major flares are possible this week, forecasters said.

In other words: We had no idea these 9 would happen, and we have no idea what will happen tomorrow but if there's been 9 in a row we think there just maybe a few more coming, perhaps, maybe.

/Claus

Re:Let's Get This Out of the Way...

[lonesome phreak]

"In Soviet Russia, sun flares You!"

You gotta love a headline that begins...

[Pii]

"Sun on Fire"

Shocker...

Re:For all you environmentalist wackos out there..

[Trolling4Dollars]

Hey... no fair! I posted this same joke last week in another thread! Someone's been astroturfing without my permission!

How quickly we forget

[Syncdata]

That the apocalypse was narrowly averted in the National league and American leage championship series.
If Boston or chicago had won, I might be donning my tinfoil hat, but as it is, no worries.

Re:How quickly we forget

[B2K3]

As my philosphy professor put it, "The world would have ended if the Red Sox and Cubs had won their respective pennants. If they were to play against each other in the world series, God couldn't have let either team win."

I finally saw one

[overunderunderdone]

I've always wanted to see an aurora but live too far south (in Rhode Island) and with a lot of light pollution (especially to the north). I finally saw one last thursday night. At first I thought it was just a low, thin cloud reflecting back light pollution that's always to the north of me. But a bit later it got much better defined & easier to see and started to shift and shimmer with some color shifts from red to green. It was still so dim that it was hard to make out but it really made my night. Sadly my kids missed it - maybe tonight they'll be able to see one. Sadly it's supposed to be cloudy & it looks like these solar storms aren't going to hit us strong enough to bring aurora's this far south anyway.

Saw one in RI last thursday

[overunderunderdone]

I saw one in Rhode Island last thursday night around 7:00. It was very dim and at first I just thought it was light pollution I always notice from the town north of me. But after a while it became more distinct and had that characteristic aurora shimmering and shifting. It was still so dim that I was half convinced it was only my over active imagination until a friend called to tell me to go out an look at it.

Whipping up hysteria

[amightywind]

Lately it seems that slashdot has substituted solar flare stories for planet killing asteroid stories to generate their share of media induced natural disaster hysteria. Since we have all survived the solar flares I think it is time to switch back our global warming debate.

In other news

[Doc Ruby]

A pollutionist today got a great laugh out of the heatwave killing thousands as it skips around the globe. Then he turned down the N2O valve, allowing more oxygen to return to his gasmask.

Re:UUUUGH!

[fishbowl]

Err, solar observation goes back at least a century and a half. We have better spectroscopy today, of course.

Solar Flare: The Book

[stress4dad]

For an interesting fictional examination of what might happen if a large solar flare/geomagnetic storm hit the earth, check out the book _Solar Flare_ by Larry Burkett (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-f orm/ref=s_sf_b_as/102-9230622-0456917). Unfortunately it is out of print, but you might be able to find a used copy somewhere. Note that this book has a distinctively Christian theme, but the technological discussion of the impact on the power grid and electronics is pretty accurate, I think.

Headline: Sun on Fire

[MisterFancypants]

Holy crap the Sun is on FIRE??!?!?

First California, now THE SUN!!!

OH FUCK!

Solar Flares Affecting Slashdot

[Baby Duck]

Are solar flares behind the damn annoying advertisement I saw today on the right margin?

All Hail God's Holy Herf Gun

[HealYourChurchWebSit]

From blogs4God:

"What do I make of this from a conservative Christian point-of-view? My guess is that God is mad that we're wasting the gift of bandwidth on our cell phones while attempting to drive our car ... or worse downloading MP3's of Britney Spears' latest hit."

I personally think it is the Sun complaining about the biased press coverage other heavenly bodies are getting. I mean, big deal, Mars is sooo close ... whoodie stinking doo ... did I feel any heat from it ... did my radio cut out ... all hail God's Holy Herf Gun!

Any thoughts from an astrological/jyotish angle?

[KingReuben]

I would have to think that this sort of behavior from our Sun is quite powerful and significant astrologically. Any thoughts from /.'ers on this?

Mr. Burns

[golo]

Since the beginning of time man has yearned to destroy the sun

another huge one today (tuesday)

[hitchhacker]

check here .. The largest X-ray burst I've seen is going on right now (mid-day tuesday US).
That looks _higher_ than an X-Class.

-metric

If I woulda had real balls

[Captain McCrank]

I actually wanted to put

JAVA IS DEAD SCOTT. LEARN C# AND GET OVER IT!!!

But undoubtedly that woulda modded me Troll (You bastards). It sure woulda been funnier though (You bastards).

Cutting Loose...

[autophile]

From the article: The Sun cut loose with three severe flares in less than 24 hours...

Someone get that thing some Pepto!

Another powerful flare (X14) has just erupted

[poszi]

Check http://www.sec.noaa.gov/rt_plots/xray_5m.html

Re:Another powerful flare (X14) has just erupted

[slash_quark]

Beat me too it!

Re:Another powerful flare (X14) has just erupted

[jfollas]

Or this view:

http://www.sec.noaa.gov/rt_plots/xray_1m.html

(the data will only be visible in this URL's chart for about five more hours, meaning up to about 8PM or 9PM EST on 11/4/2003).

Notice that the xrays topped out at X18--this is the upper limit of the equipment. I wouldn't be surprised if this particular flare turned out to be an X20 or higher, ranking it as the most powerful flare recorded..... Only time and the solar scientists will tell.

Rotate Right operation

[autophile]

From the article: Both sunspots are about to rotate off the right side of the Sun's face...

...where they will first fill the carry bit, then reappear on the most significant side, or left side, of the Sun's face...

Obligatory...

[mindriot]

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving...

http://wuzzle.org/python/galaxysong.html

MOD PARENT UP

[Rob Riggs]

Holy cow! I was looking at the SOHO animation linked from here and noticed that the last flare occurs after the story was posted on space.com and seems headed directly for us. This seems to confirm it.

Re:Peloponnesian war

[Bendebecker]

The holy roman empire was largely based on the military exploits of Charlemagne, who spent the 42 years of his reign constantly at war (with the exception of 790AD which the historians of his time see as significant, specifically stating its significance as the fact he didn't go to war that year.) The church at the time was little more than a group of back stabing cardinals and a pope that one year had had to flee Rome after an assination attempt by them. Charlemagne in 800 AD had himself declared by the pope as bieng the holy roman emporer, largely due to Charlemagnes knowledge of history and his understanding that to keep Europe safe (from Islam) required keeping it cohesive. Charlemagne then set about setting up an empire with its two chiefs authorities being the pope and himself (himself being the chief power - afterall, even he could see the church at the time was rife with corruption.) By his death, he controlled an area extending from Hungary to Spain, from Germany to Engalnd. After his death however, his empire fragmented and existed in name only until its eventaul dissapearance.

Re:Question for the non-science challeneged..

[Bendebecker]

Actually the sun is a superhot ball of plasma undergoing nuclear fusion. You need Oxygen combining with other molecules to have the thermodynamic reaction we call fire. The oxygen on the sun doesn't break down, it is formed and then fused with other atoms to form even heavier ones. Things don't burn on the sun and so the answer is no, the sun is not a burning ball. It is a fusing ball. The heat of the sun is a result of agitation of the air molecules in the atmosphere from the vast amount of light striking it.

Re:Solar Flare: The Book

[Bendebecker]

You want a better one: Doctor Who, the Tom Baker Years, "Ark in Space" - Humanity builds an ark in space and everyone goes into Cryogenic freeze until the Erath is once again habitable. Too bad ttheir timer breaks, and aliens visit.

Yes mod up

[puppet10]

It saturated the detectors on the GEOS satellites and has been categorized as a X20+ flare.

The sunspot is on the limb of the sun now though so the CME is probably going to be glancing (meaning less auroral activity than a CME directed fully toward the earth).

Daily or more frequent reports can be found at Spaceweather.com

Yes, probably well above X20.

[poszi]

I wouldn't be surprised if this particular flare turned out to be an X20 or higher, ranking it as the most powerful flare recorded

According to this site the flare seems to be well above X20 and, therefore, the strongest ever recorded.

The Sun is going to explode

[Aqua OS X]

Watch... this is just a sign that the Sun is going to explode within the next few days. Scientist probably don't want to tell us this horrible news because there's nothing that can be done. ;)

Must be global warming

[MerlynEmrys67]

All of us driving our cars and polluting with our industries are catching up with us. There is no other explaination of this extra energy leaving the sun for outer space

Don't worry.

[Simple-Simmian]

We are all gonna DIE!

Here comes ANOTHER one...

[Ungrounded Lightning]

Does this recent solar activity make any of you feel uneasy? I mean... is it time for Bruce Willis to suit up again and save the planet? Nine X-class solar flares... eeeek. That has to be bad.

Don't know about bad. But there was another one - a REALLY big one - about 1930 GMT / 11:30 PST / 2:30 EST. See this page for the X-ray intensity at the GEOS satellites - at least until it horizons out in a few more hours.

Note that the peak is beyond the saturation of the instrument. BIG.

Re:Here comes ANOTHER one...

[barakn]

Saturated the SXI imager as well....

Re:Dear poster

[Farmer Jimbo]

Apparently knowledge of modern slang is not one of Captain Poopypants' powers.

1 more this afternoon - and it's a biggy

[christodd]

Looks like the tenth one just came at 2:40pm EST according to this article on space.com. Initial reports are of an X11, but it could be an X20, but fortunately it's not aimed straight at us.

"This one saturated the X-ray detectors on the NOAA's GOES satellites that monitor the Sun," Brekke said. "The jury is therefore out on the definitive classification of the flare."

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Instead, how about "Songs of Distant Earth"

[dpilot]

by Arthur C Clarke

The premise: In the 20th Century we observed only 1/3 of the solar neutrinos predicted by theory. We figure our theory needs work. But in the book, it's the Sun that needs work, because at the core, it's going out. But just like light from the core takes 1000 years to reach the photosphere, the news that all is not well takes a long time.

In the book, we had almost 1000 years to develop interstellar travel, or die. Mankind's exodus is in successive waves, and the story takes place as a later wave visits a planet colonized for several hundred years by an earlier wave.

But maybe we really don't have 1000 years. Maybe the countdown started long ago, and these sunspots are the news reaching the surface.

More likely they're just big sunspots.

Update

[BryanL]

Looks like the story is in need of an update. Another, larger flare erupted today.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/984388.asp?0dm=C12MT

Re:Update

[stfvon007]

Here is a NOAA article on the new giant solar flare.
Looks like it was directed away from earth so it should not have as much of an effect as the previous major flares did.

Also today:

[sharkey]

Seemingly, there is no reason for these extraordinary, intergalactical upsets. Only Dr. Hans Zarkov, formerly of NASA, has provided any explanation.

This Mondays unprecedented solar flares are no cause for alarm.

Re:Also today:

[Trolling4Dollars]

Sir... I have to say this is THE funniest post I've seen in this thread. Welcome to my friends list.

Re:Also today:

[sharkey]

Just a man, with a man's courage...

The Sun killed my WiFi

[bar-agent]

My 802.11 connection kept going down yesterday in Seattle. Now I know why...

Sheesh!

[ninejaguar]

Is our Sun going to blow-up before we develop a Warp Drive? Should we stick a kid into a soyuz and send him to a nearby solar system?

= 9J =

A Diplomatic Solution

[Code Dark]

I think that we should create a diplomatic solution with the sun, to have it stop sending us flares. Yes, that's right! George Dubb Bush and Arnold Swatzenegger (Californians soak up enough sun) should get in a shuttle and go up there to negotiate with the sun. Someone forward this to root@whitehouse.gov :-)

Good call

[Theatetus]

Props to you. I even had a Strong's concordance nearby I could have checked. My bad.

I'm thankful for the flares

[dacaldar]

Makes it easy to explain non-deterministic bugs popping up and disappearing at random in the h/w I'm qualifying.

Moo

[Chacham]

Sheesh! "an historic". Don't you guys know English?

I am suprised noone else reported it. :)

Remember the flares?

[SharpFang]

In 1000 years nobody will remember America. Neither will they in 100 or 10 years. But in some 1 billion years they will remember: "A billion years ago there was one huge solar flare that wiped all the life of Earth, which was a fairly developed civilisation by then".