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Nintendo's Mystery DS Portable Revealed
Thanks to GameSpy for its story revealing the first information on the dual-screened, portable Nintendo DS, the previously rumored 'mystery console' that's been lacking any concrete details up to now. According to the piece, the DS "features two separate 3" TFT LCD display panels, separate processors, and semiconductor memory of up to 1 Gigabit. It's scheduled to launch worldwide before the end of 2004." The article further explains: "Players can look forward to being able to simultaneously manage their game progress from two different perspectives, enhancing both the speed and strategy of the challenge. For example, players will no longer be forced to interrupt game play to shift perspective, such as moving from a wide shot to a close up, or alternating between a character's ongoing battle and a map of their environment." A concurrently released official Nintendo press release confirms this information.
Why not just a wider screen that the game can split into two??
if(!cool) exit(-1);
Can you say Game and Watch? Hopefully the graphics will be a little better.
This is just weird. Is this the next Virtual Boy? Will it fit in a pocket? I guess we'll get to see.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
On the one hand, that's my first response: What the Hell is Nintendo thinking? A portable system with two screens? I mean - what?
But on the other hand, I can look at this and say "Well, but - maybe." The idea itself is nothing new compared to playing, say, Descent, Quake, or Baldur's Gate with 2 monitors the way I've always wanted to play them - a menu or map on one side, and the "gameplay" on the other.
The screens sound about the size of a Gameboy Advance screen. Remember, Nintendo - back light, please Lord backlight. It will require a different kind of thinking for developers.
Nintendo isn't crash proof (Virtual Boy, anyone?) but this product is certainly interesting, and has some potential for RPG's, strategy games, maybe FPS kind of games. If nothing else, it certainly can give the PSP some interesting introductory challenges to face.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
as I do not see that going down my pocket, two screens and all.
but again pretty neat, but it feels like an other VR-google for the GameBoy.
This may lead to the idea of Picture in Picture for high end game consoles. Wouldn't it be nice to have a bigger, more detailed map on those games like zelda, or have a list of objectives?
:)
Maybe this will lead to lower prices on other handheld systems which would be nice, even if this system becomes a dud
Jeff
As much as I applaud Nintendo for being innovative and taking a risk, I can't help but feel that this move will alienate 3rd party developers. On the other hand, Nintendo's first party games are usually very good and without a credible competitor for the moment in the handheld department Nintendo could pull this off. Regardless it's a risky move.
...hows the power consumption?
2 screens & 2 processors - thats gotta chew up the batteries pretty quick relative to a standard GameBoy...
Also how useful will the second screen be in a fast paced game where 'glancing at the second screen' = painful death?
Great!
My vision's bad enough without having to separate my eyes to play a game.
Someone needs to hack this thing so that it displays grits on one screen and Natalie Portman on the other... mmm...
Two 3 inch screens are less expensive than one 6 inch screen. And they probably have a large backstock of them from the GBA.
How much is going to cost me for a second screen? How is this going to be laid out? Seems like a two screened GameBoy would be pretty akward. And the most important question, will there be a game that use the second screen in a unique enough manner to warrant buying this thing. Please Niintendo, I want to love you. Why must you keep coming up with these retarded ideas?
Yup, there are 1024 kilobits in a gigabit.
Very cool. My first thought was of the old Game&Watch games, some of which had two screens. So not only do we get to have games like that, but we can also have games that use the two screens in different ways. In RPGs you could constantly have your stats/inventory open. In other games you could have the top window be a map and the bottom the area where your working. If they put a few more buttons on, you could head to head on one unit with someone else on simple games. I think this will be VERY interesting to see what developers come up with for this. Puzzle games alone (with two perspectives) could be very intersting.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
ummm...try 128 megs.
Try again. 1 Gigabit = 1024 Megabits. Divide by eight and you get 128 Megabytes.
that's 128MB not KB
Advanced users are users too!
"the new product will be a unique item that is different from any traditional machine", and will be "be [neither] a home console nor a portable machine."
:D
sounds a little like the virtual boy, doesn't it?
I work for a discount retailer and the nintendo representative said May as a projected release date.
Maybe they're hoping not to make their name into
the vaporware awards. If it gets released, its
not vaporware. If it isn't released, it will be
11 months until nominations, by which time most people
will have forgotten.
Makes you wonder.
No, not really.
I've got booble
Sigh, it wouldn't be 1GB/8b, the definition of a gigabit is 2^30 bits, or 1073741824 bits, or 134217728 bytes, or 131072 kilobytes, or 128mb of ram, not 128 kilobytes. This is double the amount of the XBox. Yes, yawn away visgoth.
And why did you staple the trout to the RAM?
Don't some GameCube games already do this, putting the action on the GameCube's S-video output and the map on a connected, multibooted GBA?
it looks like NGage isn't going to be the king of handheld gaming for much longer...
lysergically yours
But I am having a bit of difficulty accepting this right now. I just don't really see the need personally. I can already perform that function if I link my GBA to my GCN. In a lot of games, I have a map right on my GBA. But I suppose it would be helpful if I could have more functionality than the GBA can provide (3D stuff). I will reserve judgement until I see what counts. The games.
Um, wouldn't it be 128 megabytes, not kilobytes? That's not too terribly bad for a handheld. It's more memory than my old thinkpad 600 had when I got it.
I'm flipping over the idea of two screens, though. I assume they're going to be placed vertically, with the top screen as the "game play" screen, and the bottom screen as a menu/map/status reporter/whatever.
It would be neat if this thing had the ability to add extra peripherials, like a GPS with moving map or movie players.
Blogging Weight Loss, Distance Education, and more at verlin.com
It seems Nintendo management hasn't learned anything at all from the Virtual Boy fiasco. It looks clever and innovative at first blush, but if it's huge, overexpensive and adds nothing to gameplay, then guess what Nintendo --- it ain't gonna sell. A ten-year-old could've told them this. Nobody wants fancy new controllers and displays --- the basic gaming hardware has essentially all been invented. Just focus on cranking out good games: IMHO, there's still plenty of innovation to be made in that department.
Is that all Nintendo has to compete against Sony?!
It seems really odd that instead of adding those things(and many others that haven't occured to me) Nintendo adds another screen. Which, in practice, will probably not pan out so well.
Just my $.02
Heh, reminds me of some of the old dual screen game and watch... ...well, better that than Virtual Boy!
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
One megabit equals 1,048,576 bits, so if 1,000 megabits = 1 gigabit, that's 1,048,576,000 bits. Since one megabyte equals 8,388,608 bits, that's 125 megabytes. However I'm not entirely sure on the 1,000 megabits = 1 gigabit thing.
Here's a novel idea - have a different perspective on each screen, hold the unit three inches from your face and go crosseyed! Instant 3D! :-)
I expect this to fail as badly as the Virtual Boy.
Are people assuming something here?
How do you know it'll be two full-size screens?
Well, this wasn't what I expected - a mid-level console - more portable than a Gamecube, but still, by the description of it, probably not going to fit into my coat pocket like my GBA does and still leave room for my iPod.
Still, in the end I have to take a deep breath and say that Nintendo still has many of the best game designers in the industry, and that they've made some damn fine use of some pretty strange toys before. (I mean, who knew GBA connectivity would lead to something as cool as Pac-Man vs? Or that the e-Reader would lead to neat things like the Super Mario Brothers 3 level cards?) It certainly sounds like an idea that could be really cool. And I have no doubt that Nintendo can carry it off.
Still... huh.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
But *can* it run Linux?
Just in case, well---you know...the release of games on this new console is less than or equal to that of Gamecube. And then they stop making it because little Johny's bad penmanship is attributed to RSI; or his eye exam says these consoles are bad (think pseudo 3D Virtual Boy).
Come to think of it, why should I wait for them to port Tetris to this new portable system? I want Linux/GNU/nestra and Linux/GNU/snes9x so I can play all the games I played through the wee hours of the morning. It is no mystery why the "older" games of the hardware of yester-years is popular: you got what you payed for, the fun factor. There still some games I haven't figured out how to complete on NES, such as Master Blaster.
Secured Party, Without Prejudice, UCC 1-207: Creditor
It flopped.
That is all.
I assume 1 gigabit is 1 billion bytes, which works out to 1,000,000,000 / 8 = 125,000,000 bytes. That's actualy closer to 120 MEGA bytes. I'm no Gameboy expert, but that actually seems pretty high.
But by all means, go ahead and keep yawning.
...Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
Churchill
Hold down A-B+UP to change tty focus?
With two screens and the power to render two scenes simultaneously, this thing could render a scene from two slightly different viewpoints. Simply limit one screen to each eye, and POOF! a truly three dimensional gaming experience. I really hope some game developers make use of this.
:)
I want Doom II 3D, and it looks like I might get it by the end of this year.
128mb of ram
The press release stated that the 1 Gbit figure refers to an unspecified form of "semiconductor memory." I'm guessing this means 128 MB of ROM, implying that games are stored on cartridges. If the new handheld had 128 MB of RAM, the press release would have stated so.
Two screens, huh? Cool!
Two screens, huh? Cool!
--riney
...I'm dumping my OLD Donkey Kong.
Warning: This sig contains a small bug. ==> *
Ok, work with me on this one.
You know those stereoscopic "magic eye" pictures that look 3d when you go cross eyed? Well, in principle, the same thing works with two photographs taken from slightly different perspectives. When you go cross-eyed so the two images line up, your brain resolves it into a single 3d image...
Oh wait! They did that with the Virtual Boy! I guess it was highly forgettable...
Why have two screens? Why not have one long screen?
I'm not writing this one off just yet, it may very well be an awesome/groundbreaking/never-look-back innovation.
I ran a benchmark on my quantum computer, now I can't find it anywhere!
I want Linux/GNU/nestra
The NES emulation community has moved beyond Nestra. Try FCE Ultra instead.
they mentioned that this thing uses dual processors. Could these possibly be the long waited for cells? You would think they would have mentioned this in the article if that was the case.
A side note:
To me, the dual screen thing does make sense. Someone must have realized that you can't increase the screen size on a portable past what is is without making the form factor unreasonable and realized that a bottom part on a folded portable has more screen real estate. Personally I'm a little disapointed they didn't just increase the resolution, I was looking forward to playing certain snes games that need high res to look nice (Chrono Trigger) on future GB hardware.
Simply limit one screen to each eye
Nintendo tried this before, between the Super NES and the N64. It flopped. Hard.
if you think about it for some games - how cool would it be to have Grand Theft Auto (normal view) on the left screen and a view of the map on the right screen.
Because I cannot think of a single PC game that uses multi-monitors like this. Can anyone give me an example?
(Don't say Quake et al, they just treat multi-monitors as one big monitor)
I ran a benchmark on my quantum computer, now I can't find it anywhere!
I've never once seen a game who felt it was necessary to split the screen in half to have 2 separate displays
Have you ever played Super Mario Kart for Super NES in one-player mode? The top screen shows the gameplay; the bottom screen shows a map.
you could also link up 2 of these systems and see your friends screen on your console.
Nintendo wants to make it harder to emulate.
I mean, think about it. The two most goofy things Nintendo has done (making the N64 use carts instead of CDs, making the GC use mini-DVDs) were mainly in the name of copy protection. Now we have something that will probably be more complicated to emulate than the GBA because of the two different displays. It will also be harder to put on a computer screen in a good size simply because said computer screen will be unable to fit both screens at a large size within its aspect ratio.
Seriously, Nintendo doesn't really think that gamers actually want to play games on two screens, does it?
Rob
I just want money from the Govts' & the Corp of the World.
I cannot think of a single PC game that uses multi-monitors like this.
Adobe Photoshop is such a game. Users often throw palettes on one display and the image on the other. And before you bitch "That's not a game!" please consider Worth1000.com, Fark.com, and Somethingawful.com, all of which regularly hold image-doctoring competitions, making Photoshop, GIMP, and similar programs into parts of clients for massively-multiplayer online gaming.
hopefully the screens are side by side. then if the right game came along, you could just cross your eyes for some 3d graphics. oh wait, virtual boy.. nevermind.
4 months after product release:
Billy- Check it out, I got my Dual processor, Dual Screen, 1 gig memory Nintendo DS running the new Netbsd Nintendo DS port. Now to set her up to be a web server and post the link on slashdot.
2 minutes later
Billy- My hands, they burn! Beautiful bsd running nintendo! Melting! Meltinnggg!!!
So you're retarted?
Don't forget, the N-Gage is a huge success...
the "king" hehe
It will also be harder to put on a computer screen in a good size simply because said computer screen will be unable to fit both screens at a large size within its aspect ratio.
I've already solved one problem. By all guesses, this new system uses a pair of GBA-size LCD panels. That would make the total display 240x320 pixels, which is coincidentally the same size as the Pocket PC display. Scale2x the emulated display to 480x640 pixels, and you have something that could comfortably fit in a window on a 1024x768 pixel PC display.
1 gigabit = 128MB. Quite significant for a hand-held, really.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
"Yup, there are 1024 kilobits in a gigabit."
Yeah. And then there's another 1024 kilobits in the same gigabit, and another 1024 after that.
In fact, all told, there are 1024 different sets of 1024 kilobits in a gigabit.
I hope this thing has some sort of extremely novel control system, as the console will have no way of knowing which screen the player is looking at. I can't see this being that much of an advantage in any game with fast action except ones designed to use the "keep track of both screens at once" principle as the overall point of the game.
So yeah. Maximum size of a GBA game is 256 Megabit, and that's PLENTY for a portable, considering what you can pack into a GBA rom already. *that* is what will really draw people to this console -- at that size you could easily fit any SNES game and if you re-did them, most PSX games.
I haven't seen this asked yet. I see shock and confusion, and speculations of Nintendo's demise. It would be good to remember that Nintendo has had only one unprofitable quarter in the last 30 years. Microsoft has pissed $2bns down the drain to become a viable competitor in the home console arena. Sony is upset that the biggest threat to their games division is GBA, and wants to compete on that front with their PSP. Nintendo knows what it's doing better than you do. Let it do what it does best, and reap the happy gaming benefit that is your due as a fan. Or not. But if you're one of Iwata's 'Ten percent', make it known.
setting aside the stereoscopic possibilities... and the VBoy references... will the system kill 2d gameplay? was GBA the last stand for beautiful hand drawn, 2d graphics?
I think 2d games could be so much more advanced on our next generation consoles, and even on pc. Now we can rotate sprites without nasty pixelation. Now we can create high resolution 2d hand drawn graphics. Now we can use real time lighting effects. But do we use any of them? no...
I'd hate for the next Nintendo portable to abandon 2d for really crappy and primitive 3d graphics.
psnxdc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
If it's designed so two people can play at once, one screen (& processor) per player, then it's cool hardware.
Otherwise, I'll wait for the cool software.
Maybe Nintendo can open up a .DS_STORE. Thing is, once they open it, they will never be able to get rid of it.
I hate sigs.
the dancing monkey, "developers!, developers!, developers!" will it play GBA games.. otherwise I see issues with this
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
What's with all the 3-D talk? o_O No where does Nintendo even allude to this and the only basis for everyone's claim that it will be some 3-D handheld is because the Virtual Boy has 2 screens.
:p
I hope someone else read the article.
"Players will no longer be forced to interrupt game play to shift perspective, such as moving from a wide shot to a close up, or alternating between a character's ongoing battle and a map of the environment. Nintendo DS makes it possible to perform the tasks in real time by simply glancing from one screen to the other."
You're not using the screens in some bizarre Magic Eye fashion, they don't even hint to this. o_O This is merely an alternate way of doing split screen, but in games where screens are forced to cut half of the action, such as sports titles, they can keep from having to zoom in and out of the field. Everything stays constant.
Now if all the VB whiners would just say this is a byproduct then maybe I'd be a tad more content with their opinions. I see this no where though and I dislike seeing people pop things out of thin air.
Anywho, as far as my opinion. I don't like Nintendo making a third pillar of whatever form. It just seems to take away from the other two major systems if it is also a video game machine. If this could be used for other things, I could understand Nintendo's move.
E3 will answer all of course, and since it's a handheld. I've already added this to my wishlist. I collect.
Well, this new portable sounds interesting..
I've read people bashing it because its (probable) limited audience, mostly hardcore gamers and techies, thus (according to them) not being much an intelligent product as they are needing badly the masses.
Anyways, if Nintendo plan is to use that as a kind of marketing tool it might be an interesting step.
So after the hype over this mysterious new hardware they were going to announce at E3, all they have in mind is a gameboy with two screens, like those old game and watch devices.
... oh yeah, and with a god-damned standard headphone jack, too!
This appears to be the level of thinking here:
Otto: You know those guitars, that are like, double guitars, you know?
I mean, it's just *got* too be cooler, right? Reading the article, they are certainly clutching at straws for valid applications for this "innovation." Nintendo, just kill this nonsense now and create a Gameboy with wireless multi-player support. It's not like it's *hard* or anything
EA and Sega need to figure this extraordinarily obvious line of reasoning out, not Nintendo.
I have a bad feeling like this.
Like they just don't know how to put it together, but have developed it and need to release it.
I mean I know they try not to over hype, but this thing is out soon enough that a little teaser shot would be quite appropriate (unlike my spelling).
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Dual screens sounds like another cheap gimmick to me. The GBA-Gamecube 'link' was another of Nintendo's 'bright' ideas (NOT). Expect Sony to trounce Nintendo with the PSP.
I had been hoping for either a portable Gamecube or possibly some sort of VR/holographic wonder thingy that Satoru Iwata was teasing us with. This is just confusing... maybe once I see an actual product, I'll understand.
Heck, I thought they were going to use the 8cm discs in thier newer products and for it to be a "de facto standard". Looks like they are sticking with solid state.
My first thoughts on the dual screens is so that the device can be closed with the screens touching, thus being protected. However, there may also be other reasons... observe:
* Playing Battleship the way it was meant to be played. One screen has your ships and the other has where you fired.
* Flip the screen around and use it for two player games. The unit may even have a second controller for this purpose.
* Hook up to special headgear that would position device right in front of eyes to recreate Virtual Boy experience. (my favorite)
* Plug two Pokemon cartridges (1 screen for each game) into device to trade Pokemon back and forth. It is all about the Pokemon after all.
These are just a few unique gaming concepts I can think of at the moment. Anyone else care to speculate?
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
I cannot think of a single PC game that uses multi-monitors like this. Can anyone give me an example?
There are more than a few PC games now that use multiple monitors (ie, the game is aware of separate physical monitors laid out vertically or horizontally, not just mapped as one large display).
Microsoft Flight Sim has proper multi-monitor support.
Matrox lists 19 dual-monitor games on their site.
There may be others.
Okay, Nintendo's Game Boy games are fun and addictive and all that, but I think the longevity of the platform needs to be called into question.
3D games. Yeah, "graphics don't make a game", but they sure sell a console. The Game Boy doesn't have much serious competition now, which is why it can survive as a mostly 2D platform. The N-Gage doesn't count as serious competition.
Looking at gaming history, everything gets passed from higher-end hardware to lower-end hardware over time. For example, there was a point where a game like Tetris would be a major feat to implement on an affordable home computer. The "game cycle" tends to run something like this:
HIGH-END PC --> HOME GAME CONSOLE --> PORTABLE CONSOLE --> TRASH CAN
Unfortunately, these old-school 2D games are approaching the trash can. It's about time that 3D games made their way to the portable console market.
---
Besides MS Flight Simulator, are there any other games that actually make use of a second monitor for the plain old PC? Flight sim, as the only example I can think of right now, is still playable with one monitor, but if you have more, you simply open up another 'port' to see out of. Would be nice if more games gave more options that weren't required (so they still sell to the masses) but enhance the experience for the geek inclined.
It would be twice as much memory as the xbox has ...
yay for progress !
I'd point out that Iowa does not equal the national election or anything of the sort. Gehpart won Iowa in the 80s but never made it past the primaries.
According to GameScience (quoting Nintendo of Japan's press release), the two processors will be one ARM7 and one ARM9. Which from what I've heard is rougly equivalent to a GBA and a Tapwave.
Here's some conecpt art thanks to ign
just like I did with my Virtual Boy. This new product seems as ill conceived as the Virtual Boy. Nintendo should just follow Segas lead and become a third party software developer instead of creating consoles.
Like many who have posted here, I'm rather disappointed that this new console doesn't appear to be anything revolutionary given the hype. I'm reminded of how the Dreamcast VMU was supposed to enhance game play by displaying additional information (such as callable plays) on the LCD display of the VMU. It was okay, but hardly necessary given that Sony has yet to find a need to imitate it on the PS2 in any fashion. Furthermore, Nintendo's own proclivity to link GC games to the GBA goes the Dreamcast one better, but has not shown itself to be a system seller. So I'm at a loss as to how Nintendo sees a dual display portable being anything special.
I can only guess that Nintendo is literally tossing this thing out in hopes that something unforseen will save the day. Again, this is an okay idea, but probably not a real money maker. I predict a release in limited numbers (if at all) with the Japanese market in mind. This sounds like just the sort of faddish thing that will give Nintendo some important mindshare back home, but I don't think they really expect to make a lot of money off it. This is just something to stay in the papers until the GC successor console is ready.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
The notion of 2 screens is nothing more than a gimmick, but what's most important about this announcement is the specs: 2 processors and up to a gigabit of memory. If the DS is far more powerful than the GBA, it might be worth consideration.
-==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
"He said he was grateful that Sony gave such advance notice about its PSP plans so that Nintendo could develop a competing product."
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
I dunno - this sounds like this came from the same team that thought Virtua Boy would sell. Why would you spend such a large portion of you design and cost budget on a second screen? So we can play a 100% accurate version of the arcade 'Punch Out' game?
Today, since every game seems destined for porting to multiple platforms, this feature will make this system an ugly duckling. Either you won't use the screen because none of the other platforms have it, or your games that use the second screen won't port over well.
Does it hurt to hear them lying? Was this the only world you had?
Nintendo should just follow Segas lead and become a third party software developer instead of creating consoles. Maybe you should move out of your parents' basement and get a job so you can afford more than one system.
Well, there was this racing game at some point that would toss your rear-view on the second screen. And, uhh, some game where you played a world-class thief, and you'd set up recon devices, and you could switch between them with the second screen.
But, I would imagine that since I don't remember the names of these games, that they must not have been all that great, huh?
they trying a bit too hard?
|/________
|\A|ALYS|
On all of Capcom survival horror/action games for Sega's console, when the VMU was insterted into controller, the screen would tell you how much ammo you have and your health so you wouldn't have to pause into the menu. I know there are a few more games that took advantage of but only Capcom's games came to mind right now.
Sorry if this post is doubled up. My PC decided to post automatically after I pressed a TAB key.
The official site site reveals some interesting specification.
CPU:
Main Processor ARM 9
Sub Processor ARM7
Fans of ARM CPU's might like this.
They're specifically marketing this as a 'new' type of gaming medium, and they're working on a GC and a GBA successor at the same time as this. Whilst the GBA successor might have backwards compatibility its unlikely that this machine will, as strictly speaking the GBA isn't actually a forerunner to it.
Nintendo also claim that this won't compete with the GBA and GC for marketshare - somehow I don't believe them on that one.
Can you say connectivity?
I'm inclined to believe the DS is equipped with 128MB of RAM. Chances are the reason this system has so much RAM is to allow the GCN to communicate more data to the DS without needing a cartridge.
Basically two GBAs?
Yet another step in evolution brought you by duct tape!
---- Take the Space Quiz!
2nd equal in home consoles and an iron grasp monopoly in the handheld market. When will dim witted morons like you get a clue and realise Nintendo is doing what is does best? Making games and gaming hardware. And they're making a pretty penny out of it too.
Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?
wocka wocka!
I posted this on the PGC boards, thought i'd put it up here too...
How did this make it out of R&D? I will hold my judgement until I have seen and played it but here is my major thought...
As humans we cannot control two different elements at one time. It is beyond our evolutionary capabilities. Maybe a couple of billion generations down the track but certainly not now. Therefore, the 2 screen idea has seriously limited potential. I hear "oh, for maps, inventory" etc. So? How hard is it to press a button to bring that up then resume to your game. Exactly the same as having two screens. Both methods involve a change of focus. Even driving a car, looking in the rear view mirror changes where your attention is directed and seriously limits your ability to look at the road ahead.
That is why this "idea" is stupid. It isn't innovative, it isn't incredibly clever, just incredibly flawed. "Hey, here's an idea, why don't we stick two screens on it!". Doh.
Nintendo, drop this one, lick your wounds before they incur and do something neat with Sharp's new 3D displays.
Yeah, how about a coffee-colada add-on. And a treadmill, controllable on the DS! One screen would show your current sweat index and the other some lame-o Jane Fonda fitness crap film (in XviD! YEAH!).
Chill, boyz
The very first thing I thought of with dual screens was Nintendo's Arcade Punchout, Super Punchout, and Arm Wrestling game. I'm almost betting that the dual screens will be vertical, ie. stacked right on top of each other... with the controls to the left and right of the bottom one (exactly like the "Game&Watch"). Unique concept, IMHO.... but I think taking advantage of the dual screens will be difficult. My guess will be that the extra screen won't be taken advantage of by most game developers because they are simply not original enough, and there's only so much you can do with it. It will probably be typically used for a "status" display, scoring or radar in most games.
The other question I beg to ask, is will it be backwards compatible with GBA? If so, what will happen with the other screen? I'm hoping it won't turn on, and drain the batteries.
Now I'll have equipment to donate to OpenBSD's SMP project! At least they might get it working on the Game Boy. :P
I claim first use of "Error No. 0B" - or "No. 0B error." It'll be the new ID 10T!
Worked excellent.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Perhaps this is the system that would finally have the power to play a game my brother designed when he was 8.
I'm paraphrasing here:
"The NEW Zelda game! With 3D graphics so real they fly off the screen and kick your ASS! Too many weapons to count, so don't try!"
I'm sorry, but coming from an 8-year-old, this is hilarious. Future copywriter at work.
If it is backward compatible like the GBC, GBA and GBASP.. then I'll buy it for sure.. No matter what the stock quotes and N-Gage losers say...
I've got an original GBA and enjoy a good game of Doom on it. Problem, though: I can easily be stuck in a level for 20-30 minutes (years since I've played the original, OK?) which is just too long to be safely playing while I'm on the move. There's too much chance of me getting disturbed or called away in that time. Yes, I can pause but what if I get called away for more than a few minutes? Problem!
As I recall, it's only got 256KB of memory. 256KB of flash memory would have cost less than the controller to handle it and taken almost no space. So why not put a second power switch in that, when pressed, would write the memory buffer and CPU register status to flash memory and power the thing down? Next time I want to play I just power it back up and pick up where I left off. Quick, simple, pretty cheap and a major feature advantage.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
I have 2 15" LCD monitors. I keep regretting that decision mainly because of games. Most of the turnbased games that I'd want to scale across 2 screens won't. Actually, about the only games that do are FPS and driving/flight sims. With 3 monitors that would work o.k., but with 2 you have cross hairs directly at the edge of two monitors or your eyes are centered on border space between the 2 monitors. The illusion of one large monitor is never complete with the games that I've played. I'm disappointed that it will take Nintendo making specialized hardware to force develpers to think outside of the normal box. They could have been doing all of these things on the PC since Win98. Heck, it would have driven purchases for dual monitors if the games made excellent usage of them. I hope the system has a good future. I also hope that it has some sort of A/V inputs to accept video from a portable DVD player or portable TIVO.
The single best reason for Dual screens, info panes.
I'm guessing most of you who are trouncing this idea are PC game players or people who have never used a hand held game system. In any game with a large amount of information, say every RPG or RTS there is a lot of time spent bring up extra menus or pausing the game to hit a sub menu system. With two screens, one probably located directly below the other near the controls, now you just have to glance down to grab additional info. The LCD screens being used here don't have very high resolution to keep the costs reasonable so a second screen is an easy way to add much more feedback to the game player.
This console sounds like it is a direct result of the GC-GBA link system. When done right (see Zelda, Final Fantasy Chronicles) it is an amazing thing. The GBA link actually gives us what Sega promised with the dreamcast VMU except in colour and with a lot more than just basic, bland static information.
Sheesh just imagine a RTS game like Advance Wars where the secondary display shows a zoomed out map area and other random stats but automatically changes over to an info pane when you move your selector over one of your own or an enemy unit. That's not cool?
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Insightful indeed. I'm sure these issues weren't discussed on day one or anything.
Of course, Nintendo doesn't want people buying its stuff second hand, so they wouldn't haev used that logic.
One thing about Nintendo as of late is they've done some interesting things in terms of innovative hardware. At first when i heard about linking gamecube and and GBA, I thought it was the most idiodic idea ever, however; after Playing windwaker Coopratively i think its a fun and innovative idea.
... Im getting these funny VirtualBoy flashbacks. In my experience, no portable counsole stands up to the Gameboy... no matter how superior it may (NeoGeoPocket) or maynot(the aformentiong VB) be.
I think at first we might see a lot of one screen being your perspective, and the second being your map, but I'm sure there will be some truely interesting games for it.
It does worry me that the ds is being marketed seperatly from the gba
"I am the Flail of God!" -Genghis Kahn
I think this is going to be the Virtual Boy 2. The problem with releasing such a device is that no game designer really understands how to design for it. Everything will be trial and error, and by the time the designers get their feet, the system will be dead. Personally, though I realized it was probably still too expensive, I was hoping for some type of augmented reality system. But the last I checked, that was only possible with a freakin notebook computer or two strapped to your person. For those that don't know, augmented reality recreates the environment you are looking at in the computer so that it can determine edge boundaries. It then superimposes computer images to make it look like the computer creatures are in your real environment. VashSpaceCowboy
"Maximum supported cartridge size" is BS. Though e.g. the Game Boy Advance has 32 MB of address space devoted to the Game Pak, mappers can extend address space arbitrarily. With an appropriate mapper, I could make a 128 MByte cartridge for the NES, which had about 40 KB of cart address space. (Most NES carts were 24 KBytes to 512 KBytes.)
Excellent point.
I've gotten used to 2-screen gaming (GCN w/GBA, DC w/VMU, 2 monitors on my computer). It has great potential.
Perhaps it's like the iQue Player, which downloads purchased games from machines at stores to the system's internal memory. A 128 MB flash chip for game storage might not be so bad.
This smells a lot like Gameboy 3D. I don't think it's going to do too well.
Hey, look, I found a picture of it.
This is going to be a nightmare to program accurately... (easy to do with 3D, but not so easy with 2D)
Does Duracell/Energizer have public stock? I'd like to buy some right about now.
You mean the Virtual Boy.
Not really enough information to go by, but an interesting idea. Looks like they're exponentially expanding the RAM beyond the GBA, which is a good thing in itself. No real details on if it'll be 2D or 3D, but we'll know soon enough. I'm going to bet on it being 3D since this isn't supposed to replace the GBA-- it'll likely also have a higher price tag.
Now this two screens thing I'm a bit surprised by. Really sounds to me like Nintendo's revisiting their roots for future ideas-- not necessarily a bad thing, mind you, but definitely a new angle. I'm concerned on whether or not the third-party developers will be able to pull off innovative titles actually USING both screens, but I'm sure Nintendo'll have more than a few good games on it.
I'm not ready to call this "Virtual Boy" yet for obvious reasons: not enough details. For all we know, this could easily come out to be the next big thing, but we'll see more of this soon I'm sure.
In any case, the handheld market's building up for a nice battle. Nintendo will be pulling out the GBA and DS, Sony's prepping the PSP (which I'm still somewhat skeptical about; I'll wait until I actually see pictures of the games on it. The PS2 hype machine reminded me not to take what they say at face value..), and just maybe Microsoft might enter the race?
For now, my money's still on Nintendo. At the price point the GBA resides, it's a very tough opponent.
It's almost the same arch. as a Compaq iPaq or Jornada, for gods sake. It's like 1/6th clock speed though, to preserve battery. I've heard of people working on SNES emulators for the GBA. :-)
And I imagine the DS will be even more powerful: by being larger than can use a larger battery and have more room to dissapate heat, so they can have the hardware push more.
For example, Command and Conquer generals... I could see that game recreated in pseudo-3d (3d landscapes, 2d entity sprites) where the map and commands are displayed in the second screen. That would totally kick ass.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Actually, all of the above were launched for strategic reasons.
The ROB was released to get the NES out of department stores and into electronics stores, and at that it succeeded admirably (they never intended to support it, sadly). The GBA-GC link was an attempt to use the success of the GBA to drive sales of their new system. The SuperGameboy took some of the edge out of the criticism that the Game Boy was not actually a color device, during a time when it was under a very real attack from the Lynx, the Game Gear, and the TurboExpress. It also attempted to leverage the success of the GB to the SNES, in the same way that the GBA-GC link would later fail to do. The 64-DD was an experiment in optical re-writable technologies, as a response to criticisms of the storage capacity of cartridges and the then obvious future for networked gaming. The e-Reader sold and still sells well in Japan. Selling barcodes for 5 bucks sounds like a good idea to me. The SuperScope was Nintendo's attempt to make and promote a gun to shed their kiddy image, but to make is so laughably non gun-like (and ergonomically challenged) as to not offend parents. Gunpei Yokoi, who helped found Nintendo's interactive ambitions with light gun shooting galleries and created the original zapper, was responsible for the SuperScope. He also (ill)concieved the VirtualBoy was during a time where JaguarVR and the Genesis/SegaCD/32X VR system was perceived as a threat.
You did miss a few, though. There was the Power Pad, the Game Boy Camera, the Game Boy Printer, the Super Mouse, the Play Choice 10, the Nintendo Super System, the entire Wizard movie, Killer Instinct for the SNES, the years-too-late mini NES. Some of them, like the RAM expansion pack, or the Satellite, were handled surprisingly well overall. Most of them were just swept under the rug.
I think we can all guess what the fate of this system will likely be.
The ______ Agenda
Sonic Adventure. It wasn't a great game, but it worked. So there's no reason why we shouldn't see it in a sports sim. EA's got deep pockets... they could buy Sonic Team.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
They tried to make Saturn for hardcore gamers and 32x for causal gamers, releasing them it just half a year apart and destroying the U.S. Saturn market. This is nothing but an expensive novelty that will distract Nintendo from the two systems they already have and the other one in development. Why couldn't they have just waited another generation and released this as the Super Virtual Game Boy Advance 64 DS SP or something?
If it is like a GW then how does it NOT compete with the GBA? Is this not a portable device or something? I don't think Nintendo would make the VirtualBoy mistake again by making it non-portable, but it would most certainly directly compete with the GBA if it is just a couple of GBA's sewn together.
As an investor, I'd be a little worried. Even as a consumer, I'd be a little worried about them splitting an already thin development community.
I'm not going to say this is a bad idea. I just think this might not be the best time for it considering it looks like a GBA competitor and the GBA is still the best selling console and going strong.
If I was Nintendo I'd keep my technology held back and mature to undercut the next competitor. Seeing how Playstation Portable is coming out this year and Nintendo is releasing this this year it's a little too convenient. I think Nintendo is prematurely replacing the GBA in order to kill the PSP before it takes them out. A risky move since it hurts consumer loyalty, takes out the "sweet spot" where Nintendo makes its big profits in the late cycle, and may ultimate blow up in their face if PSP wins and they don't have the GBA or the dualie to back them up.
That's the one, Virtual Boy. I couldn't remember the exact name. I think it had a total of 5 or so games made for it. Most notably tennis. Too funny.
Some more information has surfaced about this including:
1. It uses REWRITABLE media. This means it will probably have a fixed memory or proprietary memory card and games will be downloaded at gamestations like the iQue.
2. The screens will be vertically aligned
3. It will use ARM 9 and 7 processors
This will most certainly use DRM so you have to buy the games from a kiosk and will not be able to transfer them to other consoles or resell them.
Nintendo is very good at making money. This will finally bring them one step closer to ending piracy and used games sales. A little frightening but on the up side you'll never have difficulty getting a copy of obscure or hot games since you just download them and most kiosks will probably keep a complete and up-to-date stock.
does it run Linux?
It's sad that a family can be torn apart by something as simple as a pack of wild dogs.
Mr. T pitied this fool on 27 July 1992.
Yeah, now if only Nintendo of America started selling shares here in the US... then I could make some good money too!
The GBA has carved out a niche for itself in classic-style RPG games for a reason - They don't take too much CPU power to have a great storyline, and they don't require 90% of the development costs go toward eye-candy.
Was having almost this exact conversation in EB the other day. I was picking up Cima: The Enemy and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, and one of the guys working there was wondering out loud why so many people buy so many RPGs on the GBA. The answer is basically what you've stated - time is spent developing the gameplay, not the pretty graphics, making for more enjoyable games IMHO.
"There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
I've been a Nintendo Fanboy my entire life, having owned the original nintendo and every system of theirs (save virtual boy and gameboy pocket) and enjoyed them all. Recently, Nintendo has been making some risky moves, with their perplexing "strategy" and their lack of major attempts to get good exclusive games (other than the ones they produce themselves). I really hope this idea works out, but as I'm sure others have said, what it really gets down to is the software. X-Box would have failed if not for Halo, even though it was far more powerful and could do more things than the other system. Let's just hope Nintendo knows what they're doing, and that they're technical genius will bring them back to the top.
I'd like to go back to the glory days of Zelda and Final Fantasy on Nintendo.
My big question is: How many gamers are willing to look beyond stunning graphics and killing things (GTA III, Halo) to go back to the basics and play games that are just plain fun?
What would be awesome is if the two screens were placed right next to each other so that they could run as a single screen in widescreen mode - a 6" screen on a handheld! That would be especially sweet for 2D scrollers, for panaramas or puzzlers, and for ingame movies.
First of all Im glad this was the mystery device I was expecting a *Y.A.U.N.D. this is close but not as bas as could be.
Sega tried something similar with the VRAM (visual ram) for the DC and had unusual results, a lot of games used it, but most of them just displayed a splash screen, a message which already was in the main screen or a "beep" noise, little to no games did anything interesting or useful with it (although it came with the DC).
*Developers (specially small evelopers) wont have the budget to implement this feature in their games simply because too few will have it (compared to those who have a GBA) it would be rare to see a feature that would need the second screen.
*People Will do MIND about the battery usage, 50% of life its significative this means you would have to recharge your GBA twice as much which can vary depending on how much you use your backlit OR extra light adapter.
*Extra battery usage plus extra price plus a very small (although important) library of games are too many inconvenients for an average user, I expect only hardcores to get this device and therefore its library will be pretty limited (like the gba adapter for the cube which only 1 out of 10 games use).
*(YAUND) Yet Another Useless Nintendo Device.
Go ahead MOD my day!
More opinions here
The first thing I thought of was a stereoscopic display. I have to think that the long term affects of crossing your eyes or whatever to get the 3d effect wouldn't be good for you, but I'd still play around with it.
If they chose the perspective so you did the opposite of crossing your eyes to merge the images, it probably wouldn't be so bad... I've got one of those old stereoscopic posters with made with the random noise pattern. I've looked at it for a long periods in the past, and I did notice that it was a little difficult to focus normally for a few minutes after.
I do, however, understand the desire to have multiple game windows at the same time...but that doesn't hit the cool factor as hard as 3d imaging, at least with me.
I have dual displays at work, and I would hate to be forced to go back to one monitor, but I don't really see that usefulness translating to handheld games. On something like starwars galaxies, with all the various sub-windows it'd be nice though, but not in a handheld.
Don't these companies realize that no matter what handheld they release, they won't be able to compete with Nintendo... oh, wait.
I just hope this thing doesn't turn out to be another Virtual Boy.
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
What a stupid move. Way to bust up your own lucrative Game Boy market, Nintendo.
You could have 9 screens, including the GC/TV. Not sure what you'd have then, appart from a wirey mess and a lot of batteries.
Still, I'd like to see what people can come up with with just the two.
If it had dual video outputs it would be rather trivial to connect it to an HMD and then adjust the cameras to get a 3D view.
I'm waiting for consoles to start having dual outputs for that very reason. 3D games are nice and all but how expensive is it really to have a dual head video card so I can play them in 3D?
If Nintendo can fit 2 screens in a cheap portable it can't be that much of a stretch to put 2 screens without the processor in a head mounted display for the same price or less.
Unfortunatly I think 3D is still considered too much of a gimic even though the prices to make them are comming way down.
The Virtual Boy had the problem of syncing. It was impossible to detach the system from the display because the added length of cord made the display unable to sync up. But with LCD there is no issue with that. You only need 4 wires at most running to the display from the system and then you could either have the batteries in a seperate pack with a couple more wires or have the pack mounted on the back of the head to double as a counterweight.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
SHUT YO MOUTH! The SuperScope was GREAT, I LOVED it. Sure, everytime you played with it you inevitibly forgot to turn it off (6 AAs down the drain) but other than that it was great fun. The damn thing perched on your shoulder like a BAZOOKA for chrissakes! The puzzle and space games that came with it were fun and BATTLECLASH (and it's sequel) were GREAT!
YOU LOSE, NIGGER
Well Atari sold millions of Atari 2600s. No matter how big a company is today they can fail tomarow. That said, Nintendo did the brightest thing I ever saw when it came out with the GBA/SP the GBA was a dog and could have taken out the company. They saw their mistake and fixed it. Great little game system.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
EEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGHHHHHHHHH!
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like Dean screaming.
So this thing has two screens, and no one knows what it looks like.
The thing that would really be advantageous for having two screens that I can think of is 3D goggles. Sure, the press release doesn't come close to mentioning this. But it would be sweet. It would be like virual boy two, only it would actually work cause it would be in colour.
Also, if they use the same kind of leds they use in the GameBoy Advance, it might not be so hard on the eyes, as say those Sony TV goggles thingies that came out a few years back/
Yes yes. wide eyed speculation. But gawd damn it, I say whoever is the first to market with good 3D VR goggles for gaming wins prize.
And when you through in the fact that nintendo purchased all that gyroscope related IP, (http://www.gyration.com/pr-nintendo.htm) well,
put the the two together, and you got the building blocks of some damned sweet VR gogles.
Remember kids. You heard it hear first.
The thing that I find interesting about gameboys etc is the limited hardware. In the 80s, it was possible for small teams or even individual developers to put out games without the aid of a large company (remember all those stories of people's garages filled with boxes of floppies that they copied manually?). This was largely due to the limited hardware of the time; a C64 game couldn't be made complex enough to require a large team.
Now, you can't even think of producing a commercially viable game by yourself or in small groups; a modern game, complete with art, sound, music, etc is a multi-million dollar project. But is this true of games for more limited systems, eg gameboy or cell phones? Perhaps these devices provide a venue for small time game developers to still make money. After all, a GBA game sells for roughly the price of an normal PC game, yet has a fraction of the complexity. Part of me cringes when I see the gameboy getting more powerful. Anyone have experience or comments in regard to this?
Ah, I see the /. mods continue to fail to grasp what "redundant" means.
Someone fix this moderation, please. It's a good and interesting post, and the poster doesn't deserve a redundant moderation for it. Check your timestamps and stop being a dick.
It would be cool to see if it could playback video or music at the least, and it would be even cooler if you could play music on one screen and play a game on the other.
If they're going to get my $$$ they're going to need to offer games for adults.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
This thread has nothing to do with the Nintendo DS. Stick to the subject at hand!
Two screens, huh? Cool!
Ok- Some people seem to have missed the point, I think, It's not specifically a 'big deal' that it's two screens, it's a big deal that it's double-sized AND in two screens, so that you can have the viewing area of two GBA screens, but still have it fold into a relatively useful size.
That's why there hyping 'two screens' instead of 'double sized single screen', so that you'll know it'll be able to fold into about the same size as a GBA(SP?) when your not playing your extera screen games.
And if you can't picture uses for extera large screen games- let me list a few:
1-RPG Combat Screens: by the time you have menus, player status, enemy status, options, etc, there isin't a lot of space left over for the actually fight screen, this is fine on a TV where the image is large- but on a tiny screen like the GBA you feel kinda robbed unless they've purposely simplified the system- now they don't have to, I can play a woefully complex RPG without having to sacrifice a neat looking battle screen.
2-Minimaps- Same as above, by the time you make the minimap large enough to be useful your taking out a significant portion of the usable screen; once again, when this is not on a portable it's fine because TV's are big, but on a small screen like the GBA screen real-estate is important; with this I can have the full sized minimap and the actual screen where I walk around open at the same time.
3-(this one is only a possibility); A special touch sensitive adaptor that goes over the second screen, the first screen or both screens- One of the screens could become an 'omni-controller'- each game can send it's own controller output to the second screen that has a custom set of buttons on it! That would rock- Think about playing a spy type game, and comming up to a 'keypad lock' and suddenly getting the keypad on your second screen instead of having to play around with the thumbpad to act like your using the keypad- or to have an electrical circut displayed and you 'hack' the system by soldering joints together- get it right and the door opens and it 'feels' much more real then just pressing buttons on a thumbpad.
So to recap- Dual screens means; Extera large screen that can fold into NOT being extra large AND possiblity of some really cool options that would be possible but more difficult to impliment on just a double sized screen (like the custom keypad), all in all; good stuff.
-Millions of Monkeys, Millions of typewriters, 6 hours of sorting through faeces encrusted pages to find: This post
Hate to break it to you but I moved out of my parents basement long ago. You should move out soon yourself.
This offers possibilities in the vein of Uplink... If you've ever seen the brainstorms on the Introversion server about Uplink 2, they talk about having a Mission: Impossible type link between hacker support and combat team. That would be really nice, but has headache potential.
------- "A true friend stabs you in the front." -Eliot
I looked at the trademarks registred in U.S. and Nintendo has not taken the Nintendo DS or anthing like that. Also www.NintendoDS.com does not belong to Ninty so does anyon have an idea what the real name of the NDS will be? One thing is sure - the names GAMEBOY and GAME CUBE will not be in it.