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Clones Are Overwhelming TiVo
jfruhlinger writes "The first line from this CRN/Associated Press story says it all: 'Debra Baker tells people she has TiVo. But she really doesn't.' As cable companies offer their own DVR boxes to customers for no upfront cost and a lower monthly fee than the original, people are using TiVo as a verb but are frequently not using using the product or service itself in real life. The article notes that the cable company's DVRs don't have some of the archtypical TiVo features, such as the ability to guess what you'd like recorded based on your viewing habits."
"...don't have some of the archtypical TiVo features"
Such as selling your personal viewing habits to advertisers? I'm no tinfoil-hatter, but this is one of the main reasons I chose ReplayTV. I understand TiVo's data collection is aggregate, but the thought that someone keeps a record of everything I watch (or re-watch), and uses it for profit is a bit off-putting.
Kudos to the newcomers!
All my clones own Tivos. That's seven subscribers when before, it'd only be one.
record only first runs.
as it is now, they record all showings.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Where's OpenCable when we need it?
Because that's what's really locking TiVo out of the digital cable biz. They can't directly operate on a digital cable wire, and the companies such as Scientific Atlanta are not releasing their decoding specs so that TiVo can make a box compatible with cable systems that run their backend equpiment.
Analog CATV is standardized, cable channel 27 in one town is on the same frequencies as cable channel 27 in another. OpenCable will basically do the same for digital. It should be noted however that OpenCable is leaving decryption and conditional access for others to handle... they're just defining a slot in which the system provider's choice of smart card that that will handle that stuff goes into.
Slashdot has written before that this isn't quite the same as Open Source in the way that it's usually thought of here, this is a hardware spec that pretty much gives up a single-channel digital bitstream to the device's wishes once the access card lets it go.
In the future, this could lead to "digital cable ready" TVs and devices, including TiVo that won't need the assitance of a settop box. But, of course, the present digital cable system makers don't want to give up their cash cow. That's why the current digital cable device makers can eat TiVo's lunch right now...
using using is a clone of using... nevermind.
Similar to saying "I had a burger and coke for lunch," when you really had a burger and Pepsi. TiVo is becomming part of American culture.
Steal This Sig
Most people hate the viewing habit feature on a TiVo. For me it was unpredicatable and produced some interesting results. Not to say it's a bad feature, but it's definitely something I can do without.
~S
all cola is coke, all tissues are kleenex, etc... doesn't really suprise me.
Karma: Negative (Mostly affected by dorm trolling)
I do love my Tivo, but I turned off the personal viewing feature long ago when I realized it had a twisted personality. It kept recording porn and cartoons...
TiVo's got the name-brand recognition, which is good, but it seems like they need to make some marketing efforts pinpointing what differentiates them from their primary competitors.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
I have a cheap-branded vacuum cleaner, but all vacuum cleaners are called 'Hoovers' (in the Uk at least).
Similarly until recently all portable stereos were called 'walkmans'.
Why shoud TIVO be any different - no company can rest on its laurels, it'll just be left behind by its competitors, but the name will live on in consumer's minds. Perhaps its how we're built - we need a 'tag' to describe something.
I just got through building a really nice home media system with WiFi.
The centerpiece is a PC running SageTV [www.sage.tv]. It uses a hardware mpeg encoder to capture video from my digital cable box and save it on a 250 GB hard drive. Encoding at the "DVD Standard Play" quality uses about 3 GB per hour of video and the quality is definitely acceptable. Also stored on the monster hard drive is my entire CD collection ripped to very high bitrate MP3. The hardware media card also includes a built-in radio tuner. The machine has a DVD burner in it as well, and SageTV glues it all together.
Now, the really cool part of it is, I can access the mpeg video files and MP3s over my home network. With an mpeg video codec, I can use any of a variety of players to play my recorded television anywhere in my house on a laptop. SageTV also offers a separate piece of client software that allows you to remote-control the PVR from any networked computer and play any of its recorded media -- so, if I'm in the garage with my laptop, I can call up the current TV guide and select a program to record right there without having to directly interact with the media PC.
TiVo runs Linux and is hackable, but still uses a proprietary filesystem for video storage. Plus, the folks at TiVo don't want you accessing the video externally anyway...
Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
Making a Photocopy vs Making a Xerox copy, same difference..
I tell people I have TiVo and recommend they get it. However I forget to tell them I really have a DVR device from Time Warner. I guess I'm advertising for TiVo when I don't even have it. Others who might not know what they have probably do the same.
I use 'TiVo' as a verb even though I have DishNetwork's PVR. It is becuase my audience never understands when I say I "time shift" and because using the verb 'TiVo' is no less wrong that using the verb 'tape'.
I currently subscribe to the DVR service from Brighthouse here in Central Florida; which uses the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000. I have been blessed with the Passport software as opposed to the rather buggy SARA, and even though it may not have the advanced features TiVo has like being able to intuitively record programs (I don't really see the point anyway, I record what I want to watch) and searching for a show name by inputting the first few letters (currently I have to go through a whole list of shows in alphabetical orders and with 500 channels, it can get mighty long!) I love the box dearly and it's totally worth the extra $7 a month. However, it can be unstable at times, due to it's sensitivity with signal quality. If the cable company started offering TiVo itself for something like $15, I would definitely get it.
I can't help but wonder if that's the path TiVo themselves will have to take in order to survive. We'll see.
"Black holes are where God divided by zero." - Steve Wright
reaching for the Kleenex,.....err tissues. There's nothing worse than when someone takes your idea and Xerox.... err copies it.
Is a DVR that I can just buy and hook up to my cable feed without having to pay an additional monthly subscription to the cable barons. Sort of like my VCR.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
"I need a Kleenex"
How many of you use the brand Kleenex?
"Man this headache is killer, gimmie a Aspirin"
or
"Aww do you got a boo-boo, let me get you a band-aid"
Are you really using Band-Aid brand bandages?
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
You say you had the fishsticks but you really had the fishpockets.
GrizzleBees: You'll wish you had less fun.
What's wrong with that?
If my cable company (or some satellite company) wants to bundle a DVR with the service, so what? If you don't want to use it you don't have to - go buy a Tivo or build yourself an HTPC or whatever floats your boat.
I love my ReplayTV 4500 with a 120GB hard drive upgrade and lifetime subscription. It has all the Tivo-esque features I want and some more that it doesn't.
One day I may built a home theater PC as a toy but for now my RPTV fills all my timeshifting and commercial skipping needs.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
When Tivo came out, we were their only true competitor, but heir product was great. Our only way to grab subscribers was to make our box Free
Now everyone thinks they can grab a pice of the PVR market - even Microsoft with their Media Center Edition Xp.
Tivo is trying hard to patent everything they can to protect their turf - they should instead make a better product with cheaper fees.
From the CRN/Associated Press story:
Does this remind anyone of Clippy? "It appears you are writing a letter....." Does anyone value this feature? Maybe its just me, but I don't like it when machines attempt to guess what my intentions are. I certainly wouldn't pay extra for the "feature."
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
The bottom line for me is the cost -- $12.95/mo on top of the unit price for what? Dialing up to download a program guide & upload my preferences? Forget it.
I've got a cable DVR (Scientific Atlanta) through Cox, and yes, its software sucks by comparison (conks out if 3 programs happen to occur at the same time, other things too). But it's not sucky enough to pay a couple hundred $ a month plus a higher monthly fee just to get Tivo's extra features.
Tivo is doomed because they don't have access to the unencrypted but still encoded digital video stream. Because the cable television companies have this access they can make lighter weight Tivos that don't need to do a reencoding of the stream. This gives them an unfair advantage that spells the doom of tivo for that market segment. They can also mix the functionality into their already required encoder box such that few people will want to pick up an extra redundant tivo even if it does offer more features.
The one thing tivo does have is the best remote control of any DVR. It is just beautifully engineered.
I'm sorry if this somehow gets marked as flaimbait, but Tivo ASKS YOU if you want your information used for data collection so the corps can see that shows like Farscape are more popular and possibly stay on longer if more people did this. If you dont like it? Simply choose 'NO' .. I can't believe you thought this was manditory? They keep NO VIEWING INFORMATION if you dont want them to. Sheesh.
I had a TIVO for a day, until I found out I could not record without paying TIVO $10/month.
When I bot it I thought I could program it like a VCR. Turns out you can, if you pay them.
The idea is great, no more tapes, but TIVO's
version isn't it.
mike
When it was the only PVR on the market, there was no reason to call a PVR anything other than a TiVo. TiVo now will have to fight an uphill battle to try to get people to associate the word TiVo only with TiVo-brand PVRs.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
I have a TiVo and a friend with a Scientific Atlanta DVR. I can tell you that the Scientific Atlantic user interface isn't any where as nice as the TiVo. I can do without TiVo surprising me with programs it decided I wanted to see, but it sure is nice to be able to do wish lists. The differences between the user interfaces on the SA and the TiVo seem to me like comparing a Mac to DOS 6.0.
And they make big bank on them as well.
sure I can buy a digital cable decoder and a harddisk recorder, but then it would not be able to change channels on the cable decoder now would it.
It sucks when you only have one cable company and they don't feel like adding new features.
There really generic bandages, but I call em that, Oh, and I have a "Swiss-army" knife. Who the Hell Cares?? My aunt has AOL, ask her, she has the "internet at home"
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Jim Smith thinks he reads Slashdot. But he doesn't. Every morning he starts with MSDN, a site launched by a different company for a different kind of developer.
It's the same, that is the point. That is the entire point of the article, that Tivo is becoming a generalized term for DVRs. This behavior is bad news for the brands in question, because it makes the brand generic. Of course, you could also say that it gives these brands a lot of publicity, I suppose.
if you don't like the service get your rabbit ears out and enjoy your 4 fuzzy channels you belly aching whining child.
problem with shitbags like you is you think you deserve everthing. try living in an imporverished 3rd world country before you cry about a luxury you waste of life.
Yes, it can also suggest stuff way out in left field, but its not like you have to select that stuff. You'd be surprised what some thumbs up and down tweaking will do. I found there is a LOT of awesome stuff on TV, you just need to tweak it to help it find stuff that you truely like.
That said, I would be disappointed with a DVR that didn't have this.
Well, after a while, the VCR failed her on a couple of separate instances of trying to record Dr. Phil. Now she wasn't so opposed to a TiVo anymore, and thought we could get one! So I started looking around, and was actually leaning toward a ReplayTV, as our house has no land-line and ReplayTV is already set up for broadband access.
But could I convince the wife that a ReplayTV was the same thing (and in some instances better) as a TiVo? Nope. Gotta have a TiVo. TiVo is what I kept telling her we needed, so by golly we'd better get a TiVo, and nothing else!
Ordered it earlier this week.
Troy
Analog CATV is standardized, cable channel 27 in one town is on the same frequencies as cable channel 27 in another.
Not entirely. It is quite common for systems that even require an analog cable box to remap one or two channels to another channel number. E.g. the public access channel here is on channel 80 when you have one of the cable company's boxes, but on channel 99 for everyone else. Most often such things are done for scrambled channels like Spice so kids can't easily find them and listen in to the moans (now only in the evening hours), but public access here is a basic cable channel.
This frustrates TiVo owners when they want to use their own cable box for their (non-premium) analog channels (poss. because they want to record a better S-Video signal the cableco won't supply on their boxes) but the guide data won't match up to the correct channel numbers for them.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
I bought a cheap TiVo on eBay over two years ago, threw a huge drive in it, and paid for the lifetime subscription. $300, which boils down to 24 months at the current monthly rate. Since January, my TiVo subscription has been 100% free, and will be until the unit dies. I can't for the life of my figure out why anyone would rather pay a small amount in perpetuity.
Then again, I'm a Mac user, so I'm accustomed to paying more to start off and reaping the rewards later.
I think the one nice thing about the SciAtl DVR boxen is the dual-tuner. Second place goes to not having an additional box sitting on my rack. Granted the UI/Experience on the TiVo may be nicer, but (at least for me), it's mostly fluff (at least for now).
As far as the "genericifying" of the TiVo brand name...that's been covered elsewhere.
The older I get, the less I like everyone else.
They own nearly every DVR patent known to man. I wouldn't worry about them too much.
Yeah, the subject looks dorky. But I'm a computer geek. I have an x86 box that's useless (Mac owner here) that I could simply turn into Myth or Freevo or whatnot. But you know what? It's not TiVo. They look nice, they work well, and yeah, they do things that TiVo doesn't. But... I can do all that with Linux anyway. TiVo is to television what Mac OS X is to the computer world.
And no, this isn't flame-bait, and I don't want to get into a philosophical argument about my choice of metaphor. But... Mac owners that are also TiVo owners that are also x86 owners will truly know exactly what I'm talking about.
--Jim (me)
Clowns Are Overwhelming TiVo? That really freaked me out for a minute.
-EB
Do you ever walk alone like a drifter in the dark?
Sure, the "burly guys tossing the network programmer out the window" ad from a few years ago was funny, but how about some ads that lay out what the TiVo can do, and more importantly, what the cablecos' TiVo-wannabes don't do?
They need a whole series of ads that directly address the cable companies in certain markets. Something like, "Think you've got a TiVo(TM)? Well if it came from your cable company, you don't..."
Satisfied customers' word of mouth is a great way to advertise, but it can't compare to the reach that the cable companies have, unless TiVo does something like hiring a network of their customers to work in Best Buy and Circuit City part time as evangelists-- who else would be better suited to explain exactly what it does?
~Philly
don't care!!!
It's like selling pontiacs to folks that have never driven
a mercedes and telling them it's a mercedes.
If you haven't driven one.... you have NO FREAKING clue as to what you're missing.
Life is so much sweeter when you DON'T have to worry about your automobile.
Whatever, the folks that read this kind of trash wouldn't know the difference anyway.
Begun this clone war has....
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum
DirecTiVo's have access to the full digital stream. They record digital info direct to disk without conversion. Since satellite owners are what Tivo was intended, and cable DVR service sucks balls for most who have it, I suspect that TiVo will eventually be bought out by DirecTV. New disks are coming this year that will allow three separate data stream recordings at once.
Tivo is defending its patents in this area.
If they win, they could really could become ubiquitous instead of disappearing because of the clone wars.
I do not use a cable box (although that means that I can't get the bajillion premium channel$ on the digital tier$). My TiVo is about the same size as the SA box and the tuner in my TV works as well, and I believe more conveniently, as the second tuner in the SA. I don't care about brand name fuck. I don't think many people say linoleum when they mean vinyl flooring any more. I haven't heard the word "Frigidaire" used as a generic term in a long time. Aspirin is a trademark in Canada (Bayer) but not in the US. ASA is a trademark in the US (Eli Lilly) but a generic name in Canada. Heroin used to be a trademark too (Bayer).
Because "DVR" sucks.
We already have too many TLAs -- DVD, VCR, ATM, SUV. All because no one can come up with a decent name for a new class of objects, only too-verbose phrases. "Automatic Teller Machine" is clearly too much to say, so the lazy thing to do is acronymify it, and you get "aee tee em". T'would be better to come up with an easy, catchy, single-word, pronouncable term for it (as in some European countries -- "autobank" or "bankomat" do nicely).
But here we sit, saddled with "dee vee are". "Yuck. 'Teevoh'? Hey, neat!"
So TiVo it is.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
but I have never seem them "fing",,,
Oh there they go.
This is exactly why I didn't buy one (or two or three), even though I'd have been a prime candidate. I don't want to pay a monthly fee, and Tivo screwed the pooch by not selling people like me what they have and we want.
--Mike
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
Oh my god! I certainly hope Tivo survives the coming Attack of the Clones!
What's wrong with that?
If my cable company (or some satellite company) wants to bundle a DVR with the service, so what? If you don't want to use it you don't have to - go buy a Tivo or build yourself an HTPC or whatever floats your boat.
If my operating system company (or some really big software company) wants to bundle a Web Browser with the software, so what? If you don't want to use it you don't have to - go buy Netscape or code one for yourself or whatever flots your boat.
Uhm... wait a second.
Band-aid, Astroturf, Xerox, Kleenex, Coke/Cola, Saran Wrap, Jell-O, Kool-aid, Scotch tape, Wite-out, Cellophane, Boogie board, Popsicle, Styrofoam, Post-it note, Legos, Velcro, Thermos, Escalator, Listerine, Hi-Liter, Jeep, Vicks, Alka-Seltzer, Lycra, Spam, Cool Whip, Granola, Gatorade, Tylenol, Aspirin, Valium, Novocaine, Vaseline, Rolodex, Chapstick, Q-Tip, Pop Tart, Walkman, Frisbee, Hula Hoop, Ping Pong, Jacuzzi, Kitty Litter, Levi's, Play-Doh, Skivvies, BVDs, Jockey shorts, Teletype, Polaroid, Fiberglass, Plexiglass, Linoleum, Zipper
And now Tivo. Nothing new here. But it can be temporary too -- Nintendo almost became one in the early nineties but died out later for example.
What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
The problem with a box provided by the cable operator is that its features are going to be tailored to meet the desires of the cable operator, not the end user. That's how we've ended up with crappy digital cable decoders that have program guides that devote more space to ads than programming, no s-video or component outputs, no reliable and standardized means of remote control, and slow/buggy software. The cable operator wants a zillion cheap boxes that integrate into their overall business strategy, which places little or no value on what any particular subscriber might want.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Seems to be a real attack of the clones!
its a joke people, laugh.
I'm sorry to get all correct-English on this, but I've never heard anyone say "I TiVo'd my favorite show yesterday."
Authors really need to pay attention to what they say.
They are all cheating. TIVO must be worshiped and not cheapened. I spend much of my day at the Tivo shrine.OOOOHHHHMmmmmmm. oooohhhhmmmm.
I love the season pass option. It makes shows better by getting to watch a whole season at once.
Party at O'zorgnax's Pub! Buy me a Slurmtini aye?
sorry couldn't help it.
My experience with this issue in the USA.
A long time ago, I worked for a certiam large chain resturant. We sold Coke a cola. People from the Pepsi company had come in and asked for a pepesi, nobody correct them, and served them Coke. Pepsi raised a fit. By fit I mean lawsuit and a change in company policy.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I don't have a Tivo but I bought one for my sister and I think it's pretty cool. I can why Cable companies might start interfering with their customer base but I am also a little dismayed at the attitude that Tivo has with regard to "extra" features. I simply don't understand why they have to charge user's an extra $100 for the ability to play MP3s and watch pictures off of a network computer in the house. It's a simple software addon so I think it should be free. Hopefully, they will change their policy after a little competition gets introduced.
That's exactly the point TiVo should be selling on. Ease of use.
I was just discussing this with a co-worker today. He asked me about different PVRs and I told him that I absolutely love my TiVo, and probably wouldn't change to another just because it was a little bit cheaper, or had more features.
Simply put, TiVo is the iPod* of the PVR world. It costs more, and doesn't have quite the feature-set of competing brands, but what it lacks in functionality, it more than makes up for in the simplicity of its UI and control mechanisms. Personally, the thought put into such things is worth a lot.
*Note: Apple computers suck for this same reason, but the iPod they got right.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
kinda like saying "I gotta bad case of the SCOs" when you really mean "genital warts."
And how much in total did you pay for this system?
I have been noodling around with MythTV and freeVo and hardwre MPEG-4 encoders are more expensive than my whole TiVo. Now factor in case, PSU, memory, video that can do SVideo out, and HD. I bet you'ce spent $600 or more.
my Sony DirecTiVo receiver and TiVo cost me $49 and $5 a month. I will be ahead of Linux MythTV costs if I use this unit for anything less than 9.1 years (have had it for two).
I have a cable DVR. I like it. Unfortunately the cable company, TW, add lots of extra channels that I want to "remove." I don't mean block or unsuscribe but remove from the guide or list. I want to press channel up and go right past it. Of course there is also the problem of "only" having 30 hours which is almost used up. Of course I keep alot of stuff to compare to other shows and other weirdness. I wish there was a way to "remove" the HDD like a floppy and put in a blank one. Right now the only way is to order another box and keep both. I also wish I could shorten programs so I don't have to keep the whole hour when I only need 4 minutes. It's pretty good though. I've only had a few problems as of recently but other than that I like the fact that I can access cable stations directly without Tivo weirdness or a seperate box.
Why don't you guys have friends or journals?
I'm sure tivo is happy to get verb status and market recognition, but they could end up being like kleenex::tissues and thermos::portable drink container keeps food hot/cold
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
He does, but says it belongs to the family, not to him.
And that's exactly like it is. So shut the fuck up, stuffed crotch flight suit fanboy.
I purchased one of These toshiba models known as a 'series 2'. there are a few manufacturers of these, they all have a 'basic mode' that gets three days worth of programming, gratis.. the only recording options are 1-picking something in the next three days by name or manual based on date channel and time (as in original VHS VCR's)
I paid a lot less than amazon's price, and do not pay either a monthly or 299 fee to Tivo. (ok, I didn't pay it yet) and it's still damn useful for me, the kid cries, I pause and go, the kid screams, I go, and if I make it back in 30 minutes, I'm still good.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Actually, this is not the TIVO's fault, but the networks. NBC in particular.
I work on Thursday nights, and I like to TIVO a couple of programs, like CSI on CBS, and then ER on NBC (alphabet soup, anyone?) so I can 'time shift' them and view them later.
At any rate, I cannot TIVO both of programs because NBC is getting wise to TIVO.
CBS starts CSI at 9pm in my area. But NBC starts ER at 9:59pm, not 10pm.
So what are the implications of this minor change?
I can EITHER record CSI or ER, but not both. If I TIVO CSI, it ends at 10pm (or one minute after ER starts). If I TIVO ER, I have to cancel my TIVO of CSI because it is an 'overlap'. TIVO doesn't like overlaps, and you have to make a choice.
NBC *KNOWS THIS*, and that is why they start ER at 9:59pm rather than 10pm (yes, it is a conspiracy theory, but it's all I have to go on, and why would they do it otherwise??).
And my TIVO can't do anything about it. It has 'options' where you can start recording a program earlier, or keep recording it for several minutes after the program is over; but there is no option to start recording later or end recording earlier. (And that wouldn't be that hard for them to program in, either).
So in the meantime, I would be screwed if I want to record both of those programs. Fortunately, we have another networked TIVO in the house and each does it's part to record one program or the other, and we just swap later.
But NBC has struck a low blow here, and they should be exposed.
ARE YOU LISTENING NBC????
Rant mode off.
is essentially what you are paying for, a reasonably accurate *reliable* way of getting program information and scheduling, if someone offers just that (progam listings) at the end of a phone line so a stand-alone client device can access it in say xml format for cheaper than a tivo subscription without the privacy logging, lets see it in action.
now sure freeVo etc do the listings over the web but really they are just page scraping, leeching in effect as websites buy the listings content in and hope to make cash back via advertising impressions and of course the downfall of leeching content (aside from (c) issues) is if the webmaster changes the page structure n amount of peoples freeVo's need patching, nasty, and not practical or ethical for a consumer device
so if someone wants to step up to the plate and can get the data cheap, be my guest
I always find it awkward telling people I have PVR. Usually it goes like this:
Them: "What do you think of Tivo?"
Me: "Tivo's are great, I love mine"
Me: "Well, actually I don't have an actual tivo, I built my own, its called SageTV, its pretty much the same as a real Tivo, but I can access my TV from any computer in the house, save stuff on DVD, no monthly fee, etc..."
Them: "you built a Tivo?"
Me: "Uh, well its a thing for your computer"
Them: "Oh..." (blank stare)
Me: "Tivo's kick ass!"
Them: =)
The idea of hard disk video recorders is pretty straightforward. Yes, TiVo was first to market and they make a nice product, but so what? That doesn't make every hard disk video recorder a "TiVo-clone".
He did that right after President Ford invented the automobile.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
I use emule.
I get the shows after the season is up. who cares if I miss a season? I can catch the Bachelor and Apprenticce for my wife in digital format, with commercials already removed, in about 2 days worth of downloading. We get Sopranos episodes about 12-20 hours after they have aired nationally. emule works excellent with very large, very new and highly desired shows, some of these shows average 400 sources internationally.
You can get what you want. The Toshiba DVD player with built-in TiVo and the Pioneer DVD recorder with built-in TiVo both come with TiVo Basic, which has no recurring service costs. TiVo Basic includes a reduced programming schedule (3 days I believe?) and only lets you set up recordings manually - either via timer or be selecting them from the program guide. This is *exactly* what you say that you want.
You can find a list of TLAs at this site.
Toshiba DVD players with built-in TiVo and Pioneer DVD recorders with built-in TiVo come with TiVo Basic which provides a limited programming guide (3 days I believe) and the ability to manually record programs (either scheduling them from the program guide or manually entering a time and channel to record) ... and there is no service charge.
I prefer quality, but I also like things smaller and cuter. That's why I went out and bought a MiniTivo. It only holds 1/20th as many shows, but it does come in pink.
Are you really that stupid?
If my operating system company (or some really big software company) wants to bundle a Web Browser with the software, so what? If you don't want to use it you don't have to - go buy Netscape or code one for yourself or whatever flots your boat.
Uhm... wait a second.
That's pretty much exactly what I did. I was a Netscape user from 2.x (I forget which . version) through 7.1. Now I use Mozilla 1.6 at home. I use IE at work because of stupid internal web pages that only work properly in IE, but I use Firefox to access the web.
But hey, you're absolutely right. Companies shouldn't be allowed to offer new services to their customers just because someone else is already offering something similar. By God I say we call up the automobile companies and tell them to stop bundling stereo systems with their cars - we should all go buy them aftermarket. And what's with built-in seat belts and airbags? It's anticompetitive I tell ya.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
I work for a home automation company and I HATE TiVo with a passion!! Although, the dishnetwork DVR's are simple and just what I want. No stupid animated TV thing, no spying on what I watch, a 30 second comercial skip button. So, down with TiVo!!!
Calm down and take an Aspirin, er... acetylsalicylic acid tablet.
I want to get a Jacuzzi brand toilet, just so i can tell people that i have a jacuzzi...
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Debra Baker tells people she has Unix. But she really doesn't. She has Linux.
CS: How may I help you?
LC: I'd like you to stop recording my viewing habits.
CS: Sure! Can I help you with anything else today?
LC: No, that's it. Thanks.
CS: Have a nice day. buh bye!
CS supervisor: What did he want?
CS: He wanted to block our ability to analyze what works and what doesn't, and to shut off our moneymaker stats info that we sell to the studios and advertisers.
CS supervisor: And you told him?
CS: Why, we'd do it, of course!
CS supervisor: , Yeah, I had one of them yesterday when Tom called in sick and I was taking calls. Must be the same ones that are stumped when getting questions like "the moon is made of green cheese, true/false"
So, somehow, people who were able to plug in a TiVo without electrocuting themselves can't set the TiVo suggestion thing to not record the programs? I never turned it on, as the suggestions were nearly worthless to me. I highly suspect there is some money going to TiVo to pay for the 'suggestions'.
To those who can't figure out how to turn off the auto-record, let me offer some advice for your life: press the little lever on the commode; it will make keeping your house sanitary that much easier.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I better get my Klenix, and a box of Jello and a Coke to cheer them up.
But how could any other business copy a TiVo system easily? I thought it had an embedded OS in it.
They released the SOURCE to the embedded OS in the TiVo??
resigned
What's the advantage of "autobank" over "ATM"? Both are three syllables, but ATM is easier to write and type.
Those aren't acronyms.
Like an acronym.
Because all of the PHBs used "acronym" when they meant "abbreviation" (trying to appear smart), the strict definition has become diluted. It's sad, too, because it's a useful concept.
-Dave
With things like "Kleenex", it's obviously not. You don't NEED to say "I need a Kleenex" in order to get what you want from a mindless idiot. You can simply say you need a tissue and the problem is solved.
/. crowd. If you were to walk up to Joe Dingledorf at the office and ask him to watch the game you recorded on your PVR or DVR, he may just kick your ass for hitting on him. If you say the same thing, but that it's recorded on your Tivo, he'll understand perfectly.
People aren't all as technically-saavy as the
Personally, I use my All-In-Wonder card and Gemstar Guide+ to do my digital recording. If someone asks me about it, I say something along the lines of having software and hardware that "basically turns my computer into a Tivo."
Sure, I can't advertise a product that uses their trademark as an improper noun, or say that you can record video using their trademark as a verb (e.g. "Tivo it"), but I can sure as hell explain it that way to people on a personal level.
There's nothing you can do to stop me, so Nyaaaaaaaaa!
I don't care what you say, my cable DVR sucks, badly. I have the motorola 6208, and it's the worst piece of crap ever. Sure, I can timeshift HD and SD programming, but the interface and useability blows. I'm serious. This thing give motorola a bad name, and that's too bad b/c they didn't write the software for it (the cable co's outsource it).
I've had a Tivo for years. I'm not just a fanboy, I tried to get into my Cable co's pvr, but it's hard to like something that is that hard to use! The ff function barely works smoothly, there is not status bar that tells you where you are in a program, setting up a recording couldn't be any harder, and the guide is cluttered by stinking advertisements! etc etc etc.
I'm so happy that I bought a Tivo and the lifetime sub when I did. I just wish I could use the tivo to record my cable co's HD programming. I'd buy a cable card tivo in no time flat (ok, it would have to cost less that $450 bucks).
Uhh they are. Read that definition again. Specifically the beginning:
"A word formed from the initial letters of a name, such as WAC or Women's Army Corps".
DVD - Digital Versiatile (or video) Disk
VCR - Video Cassette Recorder
ATM - Automatic Teller Machine
SUV - No idea don't have them in this country
They are not abbreviations.
I really like TiVo (my family owns 2), but could someone explain why I was marked "Troll"? Was it because I said TiVo (as a hardware company) might die and become software only?
I'm just wondering. Can anyone clue me in? I'd really like to know.
-- MBCook
No, TiVo, you are *not* entitled to a monopoly, the dominate market share, or even any of it.
Question everything
The two are fundamentally incomparable.
The DirecTiVo has no value other than as a DirecTV receiver with TiVo. The hardware is subsidized by the one or two year contract with DirecTV you were required to sign. You know, the one that makes you owe them extra money if you drop their service. The only upgrades possible are to the TiVo's hard drive, and all you can do is add a second drive ONCE. And doing that requires you to void your warranty and accomplish feats of hackery.
My system, on the other hand, is a fully functional computer. A standard TV makes for a crappy computer monitor, but it's much better with an HDTV. Being a full computer system allows it to act as a file server, a media server, a WebTV, a video editing station, a photo viewer/printer, a game console, and whatever else I can find to do with it. It is upgradeable, meaning I can drop in additional components to keep up with changing technology or add new features. I can replace SageTV with another software solution, or replace my cable provider with a satellite, without penalty. There are also no monthly fees.
I'm not bashing TiVo. Hell, I've owned two DirecTiVo boxes, one of which died to a lightning strike and led to me purchasing the other. I like TiVo enough to give my retired TiVo box to a family member who uses DirecTV and likes what TiVo does.
I'm just happy I have the means to explore the future of home communication and media delivery. Twenty years ago a setup like mine was science fiction. Yeah, I shelled out a few hundred for some new hardware and recycled some spare computer parts to build this system. Let's pretend it all cost me $1000. That's still less than a decent wide-screen HDTV, and provides a hell of a lot of value for the investment.
Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
Today I get to be Mr. Relevant. Might as well rake in as much karma as I can... :)
Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
So you may end up paying if you want access to an EPG. It sucks but the whole Free EPG thing had to end sometime. I just hope the pricing is affordable. $19 a year is about as much as I'm willing to spend.If it ends up going to a monthly fee like $5 a month or something I'll just buy a Tivo. At that point the price for DYI just will be too high.
The service is changing and there will be no more tv_grab_na releases.
Mythtv runs on linux.
It is licensed under the GPL.
http://www.mythtv.org/
The interface makes Tivo look like a weak sister in most areas, and has FAR more capabilities.
On well tested hardware and using well tested distributions, it can be set up in less than an hour, including Dling the software and deps/updates. YMMV, severely on poor hardware.
(via KT333/400) There are numerous well written how-tos, and one of the better mailing lists you will ever see.
Sound setup under Linux is typically the headache, as you can imagine.
There is a Knoppix based CD version, knoppmyth, but R4 is bit dated. It CAN be installed and VERY carefully upgraded, as mythtv is available for Debian.
One good, well suported setup---NF2 MB, Athlon XP, OSS audio, GF4 MX400, and FC1. (There are folks using it all dists tho)
I personally found Mandrake Cooker to be just as easy, easier in fact as it is "current" to the point of bleeding continuously, as my "backend" is my "workstation", and that's my comfortable distro of choice. Again, YMMV.
My new frontend is an Xbox, and it works beautifully, excellent TV out, DVD remote works perfectly, fully mapped to run Mythtv properly.
It runs Debian, xbox-mythtv, a tweaked version of Xebian.
He could also dictate the direction of TiVo, optimizing them towards DirecTV support even more so than currently. HDTV makes no sense outside of Satellite, so I would expect Murdoct to have the first availible direct-digital integrated HDTV DVR.
Then suppose they add a digital out connector to a computer for archiving, which would work with ATI Video boards? Cable companies would become the low-end prole option overnight.
Yay for Patents!
resigned
Did anyone else think this was going to be a story about thousands of TiVo users recording the animated Clone Wars episodes that recently aired on Cartoon Network?
Intelligent Life on Earth
I had a Scientific Atlanta DVR that I got at an estate sale. I paid $10 because nobody else seemed to know what it was. It had an 80 gig hard drive it it but no smartcard.
We can't get cable here. So I yanked the 80 gid drive out of it and sold the box without drive or smartcard on eBay for $80.
Indeed, I am a very happy Scientific Atlanta DVR customer, even though I despise almost all television and only powered the thing up once to see that it worked. It got me a free 80 gig drive with a $70 cash rebate.
resigned
Trademark law has a term for this. It's called "genericide" because it kills any trademark in the term. Yup, it's happened with Kleenex, Aspirin, and Thermos.
Comcast's digital set top box has 2 way communications already, so I find it hard to believe the PVR function would add any additional privacy concerns that aren't there already. With Digital cable, they know everything you watch.
As far as advertising, yes, Comcast already has ads that appear in their program listings when you push the "info" button about a particular channel/program. I haven't paid attention enough to see whether they're personalized, but I think if you're terribly worried about ad personalization, you're probably not a good candidate for digital cable anyway.
"and hopefully lower the subscription costs for their customers."
What a splendid display of economic ignorance.
The price of an item is only marginally related to the cost of production.
That's a fancy way of saying they'll lower their cost as much as possible, but there is no particular pressure on them to lower costs.
As an OT....I wouldn't want to be using my cable company's listings for a PVR. The show often do not match what is on and are very often generic(ie The Simpsons episode description is quite often "Matt Groening's subversive animated satire about Springfield's hapless first family"
oops!... there is no particular pressure on them to lower price.
I've tried to watch all this TV that people rave over. CSI, 24 hours, west wing. All crap. If not for movies and sports, TV would be useless.
No, I'm not kidding. Just can't imagine anything worth spending time on any more.
I was talking to a friend of mine who has one of the brand X sattellite PVRs and almost every time I talk to him about it, he realizes that his PVR doesn't do everything (or pretty much anything) that my Tivo does. Such as allow him to search and record all shows by name, apparently. Must be a pretty shitty PVR he has...
Sure you could throw together a bunch of open source software and have a digital PVR, but you're paying the Tivo guys for the slick UI and the smooth user experience. Sure you could probably do as good a job as they could given a year or two of development time, but in that time you could have also made enough to buy the service for life AND purchased a share of the company.
So yes, I think the Tivo guys will have to stay on their toes if they want to stay alive, but competition is good after all. I don't see them going out of business anytime soon.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I have a Scientific Atlanta 8000 dvr box via time warner and love it. But tivo can solve their little problem by licensing out the software to the companies that make the cable boxes. Or make their own cable boxes that are compatible. If they already tried to do this then they need to try harder.
Then again the cable box dvr has 2 tuners and lets me record 2 shows and watch a recorded one all at the same time. Only way you can do that with a tivo is with an expensive direct tv box. Maybe thats their problem. Their product is too expensive.
SUV = Sport Utility Vehicle
But, as it happens, they are not acronyms as they do not form a pronouncable word. Now if it was a Sport Utility Car Kit, and thus a S.U.C.K., THAT would be an acronym.
Yeah, I guess I'm funny like that.
Here in Britain, what Americans call an ATM we call a cashpoint: simple and to the point. Similarly, nobody over here talks about VCRs, they talk about videos and an SUV is just called a 4x4 (pronounced "four by four").
I'm sure the distinction between the US and UK names for these products is purely down to marketing. However, it does seem to me that Americans love acronyms more than their British counterparts. Don't ask me why, but it just seems to be true.
As to why "Tivo" sticks more than "DVR", as many others have pointed out, it's because product names are often more memorable than the products they describe. Hoover, Kleenex, Polaroid, Walkman, PC, Photoshop, FireWire, even iPod, are all examples of brands that have become generic terms that have grown beyond their original definitions. In that regard, Tivo is no different.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Actually Directv was just bought by Rupert Murdoch and he also owns a DVR company. Tivo's deal with directv has been in jeopardy since.
- A couple small complaints.
- The mute button is too easy to hit by accident.
- The graphics on the keys rub off too easily.
- The power button isn't very smart when dealing with a TV and a reviever.
- Every part of me screams "The thumbs up should be on the LEFT side."
And one big complaint:It looks *exactly* like a little black dildo when its upside down. This illusion is made much more realistic when it is upside-down on my bed. Tivo, for the sake of all this is good in the universe, please fix this!
At first I thought that a bunch of kids from here stealing TiVos were running rampant in the streets.
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
Sports Utility Vehicle. Though I have never understood what's so "sporty" about a 4 tonne diesel powered truck with knobbly tyres and a centre of gravity approximately 1.5m off the ground.
That was FUNNY-------!
The "utility" is the key word here. An SUV is large enough to carry a lot of sport gear (such as mountain climbing kits - they aren't small) and it is powerful enough to get you close to the mountain.
I think the thing that TiVo has going for it above all else is its GUI--its ease of use. That's what's missing in many modern day electronics. How could we have expected the public--who can't even program a VCR--to be able to operate a DVR that can do much much more than a standard VCR? TiVo has done an excellent job at making a great UI.
That's why I think that the clones from cable companies (and the Dish Network) and ReplayTV are bad for the DVR space in general because their interfaces suck. I suppose the flip side of this is that TiVo won't rest on its laurels and will continue to improve upon its interface.
And on another note: yeah they have to fix their pricing scheme. Everytime I evangelize the wonders of TiVo to someone, they get all excited and then are scared away by the price.
Tivo Basic
It's even been out for almost a year.
ReplayTV beats the crap out of TiVo boxes when put head-to-head against Series2 models. I am thrilled that TiVo's demise is near and DVRs are becoming commoditized.
The reason for my extreme hatered of TiVo is the anti-consumer steps they took to lock the content so you couldn't easily move/extract data right after Series2 replaced Series1.
ReplayTV, on the other hand, is easy in terms of extracting your recorded programs via LAN connection, directly into the PC and you can do whatever the hell you wish with programs.
I'm not really sure how other DVRs stack up against ReplayTV, since I haven't tried them, but it's good knowing that one of the worst offenders in content control is having troubles monopolizing the marketplace. Watch out for the door, TiVo.
When I tell the average person I meet that I have a DVR (one of the Scientific Atlanta 8000's from my Cable Company) I'm usually met with a blank expressions followed by a lengthy explanation. Pretty much everyone understands what a Tivo is and what it does.
The main problem with TiVo is getting people to try their product, I think.
Tivo just works for me. The Suggestions and taping by program name instead of time is brilliant. I bought a Nokia MediaCenter for my parents in Norway, because Tivo isn't available there, and it drives me nuts every time I have to use to, since I've used Tivo.
There are no Suggestions. You have to tape by time (meaning, if the program changes time by 5 minutes, you lose part of the programing, or if the programing skip a week, you're taping whatever).
If you read the article, all the people who says the Cable provided DVR is good enough, just haven't tested Tivo.
Je ne parle pas francais.
its called AutoBank
say ATM, and they go , WHAAAAT? (nah honestly they know what atm means)
How about , "cheap ass bank cant afford real people machine, but still charges $2 withdraw fees"
Evil banks, worse than mafia.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
SUV = Suburban assUlt Vehicle
My mom has fake TiVo, and I have severed all tech support ties because it's simply not up to par.
And I warned the bitch.
How long before we find out that Time Warner and the rest of the cable companies are collecting viewing data? How long before all networked TV devices are collecting this information?
This is one area where I'm cool with data being collected on me and my habits. In fact I'd like to see better demographic information associated with the viewing data TiVo is collecting. I'd like to see the Neilson ratings go the way of the buggy whip.
Much of the Neilson's data is still collected using a paper and pen. They also employ some more high tech methods but those still require some manual intervention and have produced some questionable results.
Tell that to the Director Of Product Enhancements!
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
Had them install the HDTV DVR on Wednesday. Having them come back to take it back. It's terrible. The UI looks like it was designed by blind, retarded martians (there is ZERO user friendliness to it) and the underlying OS locks up. The thing is junk. Tivo needs to keep licensing out their OS, etc. because the cable companies can't beat it.
Bark less. Wag more.
Forget subscriptions, and outrageous monthly fees, I want a VCR that records to hard drive. With either a outut so I can transfer the files to a computer to write them to DVD or add a built in DVD player/recorder so I can save what I record if I wish too. I want the same operability as a VCR has, but in digital format.
Likewise with the comcast motorola box.
He understands the joke! Maybe kalidasa would like a cookie. That's a good boy.
Who could possibly mistake that for a verb?
"Vcr" isn't a word, dumbass. (How would you pronounce it? "vuh-curr"?)
If you think "vcr" and "dvd" are words, I'm not playing Scrabble against you...
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
This has always been a problem for us loyal Replay owners. It sounds super dumb to say I ReplayTVed it or I PVRed it. Yet I Tivoed it. Makes perfect sense for some reason.
I try to explain to my friends what it is without saying Tivo and they just don't get it. As soon as I say it's like a Tivo, but much better. Then they suddenly understand.
Maybe I just need to get new friends.
The comment has already been made. Let's move it along people. Nothing to see here.
Tivo costs too much for many people. I bought my Series2 a year and a half ago (right as TW Cable started making their SA 8000 DVR available), and box+lifetime was over $500.
...) boxes. Sell "cool" or requested software updates as modules (Batch Save to VCR, distributed scheduling). Really innovate the hardware -- firewire for additional storage/tuners, built-in GigE, 900Mhz digital remotes -- *and* figure out how to sell it for a profit. Sell a "PC Pak" -- HW accelerated TV card + TivoOS for HTPC applications.
TW's box was $6.95 per month at my package level (HBO/Cinemax). I have to have my S2 for over 6 years to get ahead of renting from TW, and that presumes I don't blow a HDD or have some other failure that requires me to spend $100 getting mine fixed to retain the lifetime (you can do this). Adding in a repair trip pushes it over 7 years.
I wouldn't trade my Tivo for TW's box, but to a lot of ordinary people they do the same thing and the TW box is *way* cheaper to own. No upfront costs. No repair liability. Dual-tuner capability. I'm not saying the TW box is *better*, just that it has some compelling feartures and a great price point for the masses who can make or break a product.
Personally I think Tivo needs to alter their revenue model and innovate a lot more. Some random ideas:
Free Tivo basic. One sub fee for multiple boxes per household. Free HMO for second (third,
I love Tivo, but I can't help but think its high price vs. cable and absence of innovation in software or hardware will sink it against the cable behemoths.
Using some new and some spare computer components, I built one for $543.11. And that includes various extension cables, and shelf as I put the computer in a different room from the TV. Discount all that and an UPS, and the cost comes down to $390.55. No monthy Fees.
A similar capicity TiVo with lifetime service would has cost me $398 with a rebate.
Or even an 6000SUX! I'd buy that for a dollar!
Really, though, I think the proper TLA for an SUV should be PCV -- Penile Compensation Vehicle.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Real-time two way communication between cable boxes and the cable company is illegal in some states. That's why many digital boxes have modems in them.
Putting moderation advice in your
My UltimateTV box (an older DirecTV PVR) has a Toslink optical SPDIF output, and there are DirecTV recievers on the market with SPDIF outputs, so this doesn't seem quite logical. I'm pretty sure that my parents' DirecTivo has an SPDIF output too.
Putting moderation advice in your
Uhh they aren't. They aren't words. We say Dee-Vee-Dee. See how's that different than RADAR? We don't say ARE-AY-DEE-AY-ARE.
You're only modded up because of the SMOD (Some Moderators on Drugs) factor.
I'm not making this up. The w3c had to clear it up because people were using the markup tags wrong.
-Dave
I've never liked the Motorola cable boxes. They've always been rather poor in design and performance. The Scientific Atlanta boxes are the perfect example of what a digitial cable system should provide; the menus don't take over the screen and the ones that do zoom the current broadcast into the top left 1/4 of the screen. Supposedly the dual tuner Motorola box is going to be available this summer, but I hope they improved the interface and user experience.
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
such as the ability to guess what you'd like recorded based on your viewing habits."
I don't like that feature actually. I want it to be like a vcr. To record when I want it to record, not to guess what I like. I've read lots of news stories on users where their tivo records all kinds of shows that they never wanted to watch in the first place. In other words, I just want a digital vcr. Nothing more.
My Gawd WTF...
I've got a review of my experiences with the comcast motorola based PVR - http://webmages.com/blog/2004.04/comcast-pvr-revie w