Slashdot Mirror
The Super Superhighway
valdean writes "The state of Texas is seeking to build a 4,000-mile megahighway network between Oklahoma and Mexico, called the Trans-Texas Corridor. The highway will be up to a quarter-mile across, and include separate lanes for passenger vehicles, large trucks, freight railways, high-speed commuter railways, and infrastructure for utilities including water lines, oil and gas pipelines, electricity, and broadband. In a recent press release, the governor of Texas said it will 'forever change the way we build roads.' So much for scenic drives."
What's wrong with Interstates?
any bets it'll still be something like 65mph..?
MABASPLOOM!
yes but will the highway offer wifi??
this must be that giant sucking sound Ross Perot was referring to.
Laboratree - Scientific collaboration based on OpenSocial.
Wow, am I alone in being reminded of the classic Robert Heinlein story The Roads Must Roll?
The Heinlein concordance describes the Diego-Reno Roadtown
(It was a ) Motorized roadway that connected San Diego, California, and Reno, Nevada, on and around which a metropolitan area grew up; its terminal was called Diego Circle. The automated roads themselves were large enough to accommodate restaurants and other businesses, as well as the engineers' offices.
Three Squirrels
yiihaaa!
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
Seems like it will be easy to take out not only interstate traffic but rail, utilities and whatever else at the same time by grouping all of these together in a single corridor.
Well that's great for texas, but in my state the houses are built pretty close to the highway. There's no way we could build something like this. For most states, this is not an option.
I am curious... will this "super superhigway" have fewer traffic jams or more traffic jams than traditional highways? Sure, there will be more lanes, but if some stupid driver decides to cut across 5 lines of traffic to try and make an exit and causes a 500 car pileup, how badly will traffic be affected?
Here's something else to think about: rest stops. They'll have to be HUGE. Like shopping malls. That could certainly be interesting.
I mean.... why? Why would you possibly need such a road? It seems incredibly wasteful to me, and nothing more than someone trying to overcompensate.
There are very few scenic interstate drives.
from hitting the floor. this is so fundamentally wrong on so many levels that it boggles the mind. clearly, politicians aren't being bought by multinationals any more. they're being bought by construction firms.
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
I live in Houston. Its flat, its trafficky, humid, the picture perfect example of urban sprawl with no zoning plans (i.e. porn-shop-next-to-a-church-next-to-a-liquor-store) .
Lets face it. Texas is mostly not an attractive state. Maybe west Texas is a bit more interesting but it is loaded with scary folk. At least Houstonians don't really represent a "Texan".
Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
On the surface, I was inclined to say that this is a good idea - centralization seems to be the way of the day, and centralizing all these services in one superhighway could work. It'll revitalize the area that the superhighway goes through, much like the trains of the 1800s.
That being said, there is a lot of reluctance to this project. Despite what the governor claims, this most certainly isn't a repeat of the Eisenhower-era Interstate project. It's probably just an opportunity for private corporations to enter the arena of mass transportation.. they would get some sort of rights over the variety of communications means that course through this privately-owned and made superhighways.
The article refers to the use of private tolls to sustain this. Clearly, these investing businesses have done an analysis and realized that they can profit off this - despite its 'whopping' $175 bn price tag.
This project would change the shape of the areas affected. New areas along the 'superhighway', and the areas that didn't get included... It would be interesting to see if this project goes ahead, and if towns then lobby in order to have access to the highway.
"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
- Bob Dylan
Seriously though, this seems like it would be a nightmare to drive on. Having to cross a dozen lanes just to get off would be nerve racking, especially during rush hour. Also is it such a good idea to have oil and gas pipelines on this "SuperHighway" too? What if a a fully loaded 18-Wheeler crashes into them? Or, will these pipelines be below ground? I would hope so.
...where are those flying cars already? And if we keep building things like this and flying cars come about, what will ever happen to them? I mean, some people will still drive cars around, but less and less... probably even preferring airtaxis for longer trips. So the more highways we build now, the better today... the worse tomorrow.
webpage
When they first built the interstate highway system, they found that the accident rate was higher than they predicted because the roads were too straight, and drivers were falling asleep or losing concentration. The roads need some turns to keep drivers attentive. If they are going to be building this along the same path as high-speed rail, which need straight lines, I have the feeling they'll be making the same mistake for these highways.
It is 100% privately funded. Parent is looking for free karma.
" Supporters say the corridors are needed to handle the expected NAFTA-driven boom in the flow of goods to and from Mexico and to enable freight haulers to bypass heavily populated urban centers on straight-shot highways that cut across the countryside.".. ahh Nafta was signed like 10 years ago. Clinton signed it and got head AT THE SAME TIME. Didn't you watch the press release.
I mean really, don't illegals have an easy enough time getting into the US? This is the blue collar equivalent of stringing a backbone cable to India.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Rick Perry's job when George W was governor was to make Dubya look like a genius by comparison. Now he makes Homer Simpson look like a raving genius by comparison. It doesn't matter that Texas schools are in a crisis -- Perry's priority is to get cheap Mexican goods to Oklahoma faster so his buddies will profit.
The speed limit is an interesing thing though that varies with location.
Here in Atlanta, we have some funny rules about that. It goes like this: If you aren't going at least 10 over then you are a fucking jackass and deserve to be run off the road. That is unless you are in the HOV lane. In that case you better be doing at least 20 over or you are fair game. Also, if you are in a small compact car, then you had better be going a lot faster than the average speed of SUVs on the same road, as they reserve the right to mow you over at any time they choose.
Lastly, if you have a hummer, just FUCKING STOP PRETENDING THAT IT WILL HANDLE LIKE A VETTE! You'll sleep better and I promise your manhood won't suffer to much.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying I agree with these rules. They are just what a majority of the local democracy has decided upon.
I guess they need the quarter mile width to service the ever growing size of their cars :)
Does anyone else thing maybe we're getting a little bit too mobile? It used to be that travel exposed us to unique local cultures, ideas, and products. We identified ourselves with our own home turf.
Now, we seem to be becomming just bland "American" consumers. We watch the same entertainment, we listen to the same songs, we shop in the same chain stores, and we wear the same clothes.
When was the last time you heard someone tell you they wanted to carry on the family tradition of a particular trade. How many college students move back to the small town because its "home"? How many of us devoutly carry on our family religions? Or how many of us think about retirement when we get our first job?
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
Why "Texas, it's like a whole different country," is more than a tourism slogan...it should be a goal.
If the government decided that it would be for the "greater good," the current distance between houses and the highway is no impediment. They'll just take the land, and pay its owners what ever its version of the going market rate is.
...in places that actually get snow, imagine the effort needed to keep such a roadway clear.
:-)
Unless some sort of built-in de-icing system is part of the plan?
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
I'm sort of a road geek, so I'll narrate a bit. I don't think there's anything wrong with the way Interstates run now, except maybe that trucks and cars use the same lanes of traffic. Fixing that would be a $125 billion project in itself. As for infrastructure... well, here's how things look right now...
There's a good chunk of fiber running along U.S. 24 (a highway) in Illinois... not an Interstate. There are seven major transmission lines... only one runs along an Interstate for a long while, and that's because it used to be U.S. 51, not I-39. There are at least four major oil lines in the state. They're clearly marked, but I couldn't tell you were they were, except for maybe "Joliet and Chicago". This is because one runs along state highway 83, and another cuts through and under backyards in the western 'burbs. And I see a bunch of refineries right next to I-55. So these two sightings are possibly the same pipe. :-) Railroad follow U.S. routes pretty strictly... except for a few that follow state routes. Oh, and most of the state drags its water out of wells, or the Illinois River / Lake Michigan. That pipe is very much unmarked.
Besides the fact that I like the idea that at most two of those infrastructures can be taken out at once, I also like that I don't know where everything goes. I can tell you that they go across farms, which doesn't help you at all. Security through obscurity? Sure. But it's pretty effective when the infrastructure is tens / hundreds of miles apart.
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
In John Keegan's "Fields of Battles", a military history of wars in North America, he talks about coming to the United States in the 1950s for the first time and how refreshing it was to be in a place as big as the United States and have it be a single culture. From the Northeast to the South to the Great Plains, he says, there are some differences, but you knew it was a unified culture by how much alike everything is.
They should just pave over the whole state and get it over with.
So you are to assume all people who oppose this are liberals? What about the fiscal conservatives who think it is a waste of money?
One man's selflessness is another man's annoyance.
He went on to add, "But at Slashdot, there is free music, movies and software. Maybe we should take a page from the fantasy book they live their lives by."
It will make for an excellent target^H^H^H^H^H^H transportation method. -Osama
Seriously, once in a while I draw diagrams of things like this in my spare time, but having five or ten different services running the entire length of a 700-mile corridor does sound like colossal boondoggle. It also sounds like an invitation to terrorist attack.
A 4,000-mile road would have to cover a longer path; say from the Hudson Bay to Acapulco, going through Mexico City, Houston, Chicago and Milwaukee on the way.
There is 1 sentence in the article about environmental impact. I'd say this is huge, and I'm not normally one to gripe about environmental issues unless I'm trying to impress a girl.
"Environmentalists are worried..." How is any animal going to cross this thing? Most animals won't go under an underpass a half mile long, and the only underpasses are likely to be for crossing traffic anyway.
I read an article about it last week.
Cintra is ponying up all the money for this project. The State of Texas will pay nothing. And gets the ability to take over tolls in 50 years.
It will go south, around the east side of Dallas, and around the east side of Austin.
Tolls are expected to be about what current tolls are, which means (according to the Star Telegram, at least) to drive the whole thing will cost about $40. Seems like a lot, but it isn't - truck drivers have to routinely sit in Dallas/Fort Worth traffic, which probably costs an hour's worth of time. Same with Austin.
I don't particularly feel sorry for the small towns - usually, the town builds up around the road, and once they have several hundred people, drop the speed limit to 45 while going through their town. Thanks, guys. Not.
Oh, and the speed limit's supposed to be 85.
I'm really looking forward to it. For those of you who think this is minor, it's not. The drive from Mexico to Oklahoma is probably 10 hours - DFW is about an hour south from Oklahoma, 3 hours from Austin, and probably 8 from the border. Yes, Texas is big.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
What about the fiscal conservatives
There are no fiscal conservatives in government anymore.
I'm not just referring to the ridiculous american fear of terrorism, but think about how something like a pipeline break, an earthquake, a propane tanker truck explosion, or a freight train derailment would impact all of the other services in this megahighway. Given the frequency of the above events, I would expect to see at least a few closures a year on what would be a critical piece of infrastucture.
Slashdot - the place where you can look like a genius by restating the obvious
I don't understand how there could possibly be a sudden need for so much transportation. Where will all the new cars, train riders, cargo, oil, and data come from?
Doesn't it make you prowd to be an American when we spend millions or even billions on projects like this that really don't matter too much in the long run when we could be spending money on research that matters. Well we won't have fusion but we will have a really long highway that can carry oil and other fossil fuels. Then again I guess this is what you would expect from a wasteful state such as Texas.
Will it be paved in Cruzeways Inc soft pavement, for type B drivers or Fair Lanes Inc pattented grippy pavement, for type A drivers?
I am a type A driver with rabies...
God, the more I grow up, the more the world is looking like a Stephenson novel.
Move that 'za!
- Transportation routes for hazardous materials must avoid population centers whenever possible. Like... Um... A major highway? The proposed route passes through the heart of the most populated areas
- TTC will help... allowing faster, safer and more reliable movement of people and goods... To Mexico?
creating jobs and attracting businesses that benefit by having access to an efficient transportation network
... To be closer to the hazardous waste routes? - The estimated total cost for the system ranges from $145.2 billion to $183.5 billion. Public-private partnerships, which bring funding resources from the private sector, will play a key role in constructing and financing the system. Other options include leasing right of way, toll revenues, and state and federal funds. Leased right of way? Tolls? The Profit Superhighway. Think of who's friends will land those building contracts...
- Will other projects suffer if the Trans-Texas Corridor becomes the top priority?... Maintaining the current highway system will continue to be our top priority. Those are from two seprate things in the FAQ. Incredibly, they are not related. In context, the seem to contradict. I'm betting two seperate people wrote these parts using "priority" as a buzzword. "Need" also has a prominant place in the FAQ.
- The TTC will serve as a new delivery system to many communities across the state. For goods from Mexico? For immigrants from mexico?
I realize that I'm being a bit harsh, but I'm really skeptical of this. The information site actually has very few facts. The focus seems to be commerce rather than quality of life. They use too many "nicey words" to back up their ideas. I'm still pouring through the site trying to keep an open mind for something I think could actually be really useful and cool, but my geek-sense says not to trust it.US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
This will make it easier for those foreign people from Mexico comming over illegully.
Yep, the only thing liberals hate more that those honky-tonk redneck racists from Texas are spics.
The real chances of this getting built are pretty close to zero.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
I think this is great for transportation in general. This is a huge step in changing the way we think about highways and freeways. We need find better ways to relieve traffic jams and one of the most obvious is more lanes.
You may say it costs more but that cost will be paid back 100-fold in terms of delivering people to their destination more quickly. People in New York, Boston, LA and other major cities usually don't think twice about driving a car to work cause there's too much traffic.
Looking to the future I think you'll see these super highways stretching across much of the country and even high into the sky. If it where over some large city they'd be really high up and there'd be offramps to today's freeways.
Leave it to Texas to build a road 1/4 mile wide. That's about as wide as maybe ten of the "El Toro Y", the southern confluence of Interstates 5 and 405 in Orange County, CA.
This sig no verb.
I just learned about this from the Slashdot story, and I'm a Texan right in the path of this monstrosity...
A little Googling around and I found that those opposed to this thing have also organized, and can be found at http://www.corridorwatch.org
I haven't 100% made my mind up on this yet, but the fact that it's a toll road REALLY leaves a bad taste in my mouth, all the new roads being built around here are toll now, and that's a major annoyance of mine.
Anyway, I found that site describing the opposing viewpoint, and figured I'd pass it on...
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
I see no logic in this one at all. Hell, just because the summary makes it look like Texans can self-govern, I'm marking this article -1 flamebait.
"A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes." -Mahatma Gandhi
You're not the smartest kid in your High School, are you?
Well, there is still Ron Paul.
... as ``The greatest boon to transportation since the wheel''. So will read the joint press release from the Concrete Industry and the Rebar Manufacturers Association.
I'd surely love to see how they plan on getting this monstrosity to pass muster with just about every environmental regulation on the books. What am I thinking? Why they have a former governor who will all-too happily waive those regulations!
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Aren't conservatives (in theory) -against- such massive projects unless a real need can be shown? Or are you just one of these who likes to throw around "liberal" like it's a swear word instead of an opposing philosophy?
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
By the time they actually finish this roadways will be obsolete and we'll all have jetpacks like we've all been promised!
irc.enterthegame.com #linux
He just likes people to think he's a Texan.
- The road costs $1.5 billion. How are we to pay for it? It's always the same answer: tolls. Tolls tolls tolls. Hope you didn't plan to use your tax cut, because if you have to use this highway, it will cost you a good amount.
- Speaking of tolls, here in Austin we are set up to make three of our most important highways ( == all but one) toll roads. This reason for this is to boost funding for the transportation department and cut traffic. However, this forces traffic onto the only 'free' highway and into residential areas. This is Mr Perry's DoT making this decision, not we. Public petitions are in the works.
- Of course there are plenty of farmers/ranchers in a huff. They have as much voice as one Arthur Dent in this matter.
- Isn't this what Interstate 35 was designed for? Add lanes if Texas is looking to pump more money/trucks/people from Mexico. Making a highway so big even God couldn't drive it doesn't make Perry look any cooler. The highway may have so many gadgets tied to it that it belongs on ThinkGeek, but they don't need a highway to exist. The fact that the DoT is arranging this pointless marriage scares me.
I guess my point is that the TxDoT is a mess, but it's Rick Perry's mess foremost."Can you say Government appropriation?"
"Pork".
"I knew you could."
From http://www.keeptexasmoving.com/faqs/how_pay.aspx
We cannot speculate whether construction and operation of the TTC will lead to an increase in the state fuel tax.
While private sector resources will be aggressively sought by TxDOT, it is possible that gas tax funding may be used. We expect the project will be paid for through a financing plan that includes bonds, tolls, private sector capital and other sources of revenue.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
Trucking is much less efficient than rail transportation for long distances. This proposal does at least include freight lines, but it still assumes that a large part of the trade is going to be carried on highways. Shouldn't we be building up the railway system and trying to shift long-distance freight away from trucks to the railways?
Huge is almost an understatement. Current freeways are nearly insurmountable barriers to wildlife movement. This would be a complete atrocity.
If anyone is looking for a somewhat similar study done on man-made barriers, take a look into wildlife studies done in Australia on the dingo-proof fence. Kangaroo densities on the dingo-proofed side are staggeringly high while very normal on the dingo-populated side. This may seem well and good, but such an imbalance will inevitably lead to a population overshoot that will bring kangaroos deeper into urban areas and be a breeding ground for a host of diseases (think chronic wasting disease in deer in the Midwest).
The Trans Texas highway is sure to have an equally large impact, if not larger. It'll be like the Berlin wall for wildlife.
Per Square Mile, a blog about density
Hi, ya'll. I'm from Houston and my wife is from the Rio Grande Valley. The drive down from Houston along US 59 and 77 is BUTT UGLY and takes about 5.5 hours (350 miles). I'm all for having a faster direct route away from the in-laws! There's signs along the route that say "Future site of Interstate 69" (insert joke here) which is supposed to be a federally funded project to keep up with NAFTA. There is I-35, but it goes through Austin and San Antonio on the way to Laredo--which bypasses the state's largest city and the country's 4th largest, Houston. The roadways are narrow and flat and connected with speed trap small towns. I'd like to see an interstate, but I think the weed in Gov. Perry's bong is laced with some LSD. That kind of super hwy is a bit overkill and the tolls would make practical travel on it cost prohibative. A new interstate with wide lanes and a special truck lane would "git-r-done" just fine and would be funded with traditional funding and conventional "toll free" travel.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
The article suggests that the highway will be built with private funds, and the "operators" of the highway will charge tolls to recover their investment.
One assumes that the "recovery" of the investment will net a positive return on investment - PROFIT.
The article also states that some people stand to lose their property under "eminent domain" laws.
The logical conclusion of this: The government is seizing private property and making it available for use by the private sector. This seems like an improper transfer of wealth.
Eminent domain laws were designed to allow a government to seize property for the benefit of it's constituents. These laws were not intended for the benefit of a few "shareholders".
Investors in this highway should beware of warping this law. The next property seized and given away might be their own.
-ted
what will happen when Grandma's puppy wanders into the middle? What about the migration of local wildlife?
How will texans get to enjoy using their AK-47's to shoot rabits if all the rabits are road kill? That is why texans need AK-47's, right?
Simon's Rock College
Why don't they force all vehicles on this road to be Canyoneros?
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
I bet the governor wants something really big on his resume. Doesn't he know that huge projects like this without genuine economic justification are just a super superwaste of taxpayer's money? People will end up hating him for this. Oh well, it's not like Texas didn't suck before.
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
So much for scenic drives.
I'm not so concerned about scenery when I'm just trying to avoid getting in a life-threatening accident. I spend a 1+ hour commute to work daily to the Twin Cities. I don't think I've seen a city yet that's so unnecesarily jammed on a regular basis. And to make things worse, I'll be looking forward to an ice storm on the way into work tomorrow.
What amazes me is that MNDOT thinks that 2 lanes on either side of the highway is good enough for one of the largest metro areas in the US. The exits and onramps could use some better planning too. I'd just recently moved from eastern Wisconsin, and my job there took me to Milwaukee frequently. 3 lanes were pretty much standard everywhere on the highways, and I think I'd only once been in a significant slowdown in the 30 or so times I'd been driving through.
I honestly think that MNDOT intentionally designs the roads pooly to discourage people from using private transportation, at the cost of hudreds of car accidents and lost lives every year. It also explains why they would put in a light rail system that doesn't even pay for itself.
I am MuchTall
for terrorists
Right those damn liberals... letting those conservatives try to block the borders.
Jesus, give the liberal/conservative bullshit a rest. In general, they're about the same. Only noticeable difference is whether they want to suck money out of the rich or poor. (Also some social issues, but that's just to get the vote.)
If anyone was remotely interested in actually targetting pipelines, long haul fiber runs and/or train systems in the US, they could do so quite easily -- and coordinate an attack on multiple targets. This is a stupid idea, but it's hardly a threat to national security.
Cintras is only going to pony up 6 bills. A drop in the bucket of the total cost.
o rdID=6869
See http://www.worldhighways.com/news/article.cfm?rec
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
UGH,
If its going to be a quater mile wide, couldn't they devote 8-10 feet of it for pedestrians and bicycles? Wouldn't even have to be 8-10 feet of paved road, just 8-10 feet of dirt. What's worse is that they even call this a "Multi-use" roadway. Well hopefully this will keep more cars off the secondary roads to leave more room for bicycles.
lol, what?
Why does the governor want a 10 lane highway?
From: http://www.keeptexasmoving.com/about/rapid_growth. aspx
Today, there is not a single interstate highway in Texas you can travel, from end to end, without hitting congestion - unless you do it at night.
The congestion occurs in large cities, and if the cities were well-designed, and implemented better transportation policies, congestion would be less of a problem. Gov. Perry, may I offer a few suggestions to reduce congestion?
humor mode on
Provide incentives to commuters so they can carpool.
Good zoning can help reduce sprawl and lower commute times and distance.
If you are going to route highway traffic around the city instead of through it, you just need to do it at each city, not all over the countryside. How about just adding sections to existing highways to bypass the cities?
Ever hear that 98% of all commuters wish the other 98% would take public transportation instead of driving? Provide better public transportation inside each city. Some good examples are buses, light-rail, and Sky-Web-Express. (http://www.skywebexpress.com) A wide-area Sky-Web-Express all over each major city will cost less than the super-highway.
humor mode off
U.S. to restart cattle trade with Canada - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6766787/ - (cue Rawhide theme!)
I grew up in Austin, and I just got back. The construction on the interchange of US 71 (Ben White Blvd) and I-35 has now been under construction for almost a decade, it's massively behind schedule, last I heard, massively over budget, and is actually not that big of a construction project compared to the mixing bowl of I-495, I-395, I-95 in DC where I live now.
If it's any consolation, it'll likely cost 4-10x what they claim, and require 200 years to finish.
(obligatory, sorry)
You sound like a liberal, you probably smell like a liberal too. Anyway, REAL fiscal conservatives read the articles (which say this will be paid for PRIVATELY, dumbass) and are smart enough to understand that our economy does not grow without a proper infrastructure in support of it.
If there were a Pave the Earth Society, I would nominate the geniuses behind this plan.
Is combining utilities distribution, mass transit, freight railways, commuting traffic, long-haul hazardous waste traffic, and oil and gas pipelines into one, easy to attack target a good idea?
Here come da fudge!
If the proposal was to increase property taxes on Texas's wealthiest land owners to build something nobody wants in order to create a few jobs for the people building it, then you can bet that conservatives would be against it. You might find a few liberals who would support it, though.
Well, railroads have to pay property taxes wherever they run, as they own the right-of-way. This drives up the cost significantly. The smart money lies in granting tax-exempt status for existing railroads at the local level or nationalizing them. This would significantly reduce the cost of shipping by rail.
The former won't happen as long as local politicians have any clout at all and the latter won't happen as long as CSX's (a major railroad) former CEO, John Snow, is treasury secretary.
Unknown host pong.
And that is one way for a passenger car.
18-wheelers will pay mega$$$.
Speed Limit 85-mph.
Got this info from the D-FW area newspapers.
And His Imperial Majesty, Norton I, by Grace of God Emperor of these United States and Protector of Mexico, ordered a bridge be built across San Francisco bay more or less where the Bay Bridge now runs... which just shows interesting lunatics sometimes have interesting ideas. =)
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
Politicians, of all kinds, are for any project that gives, in order of preference:
- the politician in question more money
- the politician's handlers (campaign donors) more money
- the politician's family more money
- the politician's voters more money
Doesn't matter if it's a massive government project and the politician is a conservative. Not one bit. Who cares if there's no real need.
This thing will likely be a slam dunk, at least in the short term, giving more money to all concerned, so it's a definite go as far as politicians go. The pesky environmentalists and economists might put a few spikes in the wheels along the way though.
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
We need the worlds largest ramp and the world's largest Dodge Charger. Then we can just jump over states that need better highways.
Railways are privately owned and handle most freight in the US by weight/mile. But you cannot build a rail line to every Walmart/Shaws in the US.
Excuse me, but how many of you have driven through northern Texas and Oklahoma?
I have, and there a darn good reason why the abbeviation for Oklahoma is "OK" and not "GREAT".
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why is it that products and corporations are free to move around at the highest possible efficiency while workers from the third world are not also allowed to move north as each sees fit? http://www.noborder.org/news_index.php
Any chance this TTC will demolish a few rural republican texas neighborhoods? If so, go for it. I'll chip in a few bucks.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
How does this contradict conservative principles?
It requires government intervention for eminent domain. People will lose their homes over this. Has it been clearly demonstrated that this highway is for the greater good or is it just for greater profit? I'd be fucking pissed off if someone threw me out of my home for $0.50 on the dollar for a highway no one wanted.
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
Private industry using private funding. Oh, and government enforced eminent domain to confiscate the land and hordes of tax accountants and lawyers to make sure the tax consequences far outway the actual funding from private sources.
It was a good project -- neither the state nor the county had funds to improve one of the single most congested segments of freeway in the country, and there were no good alternate routes. There was, however, a median, which a private company leased from the state for a nominal fee. They built toll lanes on their own nickel (well, Wall Street bond buyers' nickels) and opened for business. The deal, as they're proposing in Texas, was for the road to be privately run for 30 years and then turned over to the state, which would be able to continue to charge tolls.
The road's been open for less than a decade and although it's been a big success in terms added traffic capacity, there are some lessons no one expected:
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
...would do well to take a look at Boston's "Big Dig" catastrophe before making too many plans for a superhighway like this.
Wow, this sounds like an awesome Frogger level...
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
Am I the only one who noticed along side this proposed mega-highway is a proposal for Interstate I-69? I can already see a rash of sign thefts occuring as soon as they are put up.
A little learning never hurt anyone.
Don't like the toll road? Don't use it. It's going to be PRIVATELY financed. Not paid for with your tax dollars. I hardly think it that outrageous that a privately financed road would want you to help contribute if you use it... either that, or keep using the roads which you've already paid for with your taxes.
This road wouldnt be necessary if we they had smart cars there. Getting people to drive them would be a different matter though.
Whats the point of a cure for cancer or aids? Most people who need it and dont have the money wont be able to afford it.
Well where I come from, there's a two lane road on the side of a 6000ft mountain range, and it's the only way to get to where most of our olympic events will be held in 2010. Welcome to Vancouver.... sigh... Oh and did I mention it is the stretch of road in Canada with the highest deaths every year? Yep, should be fun.
Does anyone else thing maybe we're getting a little bit too mobile?
/. readers). Would you prefer every cultural group do things separately? That just takes you back to segregation. I would think consolidation of cultural values would be a positive thing for a country's societal health.
No. I love the versatility that a mobile society gives you. Don't like it somewhere? You can easily go somewhere else. You have so many more options open to you today than you did 50 years ago.
It used to be that travel exposed us to unique local cultures, ideas, and products.
Who's to say it still doesn't. I mean everyone speaks the same language, but as someone who has lived in the north and the south US, I can tell you that the culture is very different.
We watch the same entertainment, we listen to the same songs, we shop in the same chain stores, and we wear the same clothes.
Umm, maybe that's because we are all Americans (at least everyone living in the US, no offense to international
When was the last time you heard someone tell you they wanted to carry on the family tradition of a particular trade.
Not in a while, which again is a good thing IMO. In the old days children were expected to carry on the occupation of their parents. In effect, the course their life would take was determined before they were even born. Today, we've given children the freedom to make their own choices about what they want to do with their lives. How can you be opposed to that? Everyone benefits there as we can all find greater satisfaction in our occupation since it's something we chose rather than something that was forced upon us.
How many college students move back to the small town because its "home"?
I see this more of a social variance that everyone has a different view of, but again it comes down to freedom of choice. If you like the atmosphere of the place you grew up in, the surroundings of your close family and the state of mind that gives you, then moving back home is probably a good choice. If on the other hand (as in my case) you feel disillusioned by all of that and want to pursue your own path, that is your choice to make.
How many of us devoutly carry on our family religions?
Again, what if you don't agree with your family's religion? Are you suggesting we curtail freedom of religion, one of the most basic principles this country was founded on?
Or how many of us think about retirement when we get our first job?
How many of us will choose not to start worrying about tomorrow as soon as we complete every task and instead take time to enjoy all that life has to offer even for a brief period? When you get your first job, you have decades ahead of you. Assuming you have at least some financial sense, it really won't be a problem when the time comes to deal with it.
It really sounds to me like you don't understand the progress that has been made on many of these fronts over the last few decades. I know I would never want to trade this world for the one my parents lived in.
Likewise, Europe has excellent bus, tram, subway (underground for UKers) and metrolink systems in place, just about everywhere.
Europe has fantastic regional diversity within each country, and amazing diversity between countries. You'd swear that each town has been isolated from the next for the past few thousand years, given the differences.
In comparison, the southern States have a few rust-buckets that roll around on wheels, that few would dare get into even if they went anywhere useful in a practical length of time. They have busses as well, but usually not anywhere useful.
Greyhound has shut down many minor stops and I think they may have even left some States altogether. Amtrak is near-broke, can't get the replacement trains to work, and is too damn slow. The track and bridges are in such disrepair, that decent speeds are next to impossible.
Only a few cities (Portland Oregon, Seattle, Washington DC and New York) have particularly extensive mass transit systems in place, and those are underfunded.
Despite the fact that fewer people can afford a car than can afford a train ticket, diversity in the US is nowhere near as rich or complex. This would suggest that trains (which are excellent for commuting and holidaying, but horrible for relocating) and other forms of mass transit may help retain local variability, without hurting the ability to travel.
Besides which, I would absolutely love to see the reaction, if the roads were all pulled up in the Red States and replaced with tracks.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
...then the MWC (LA's water board) will have a model for acquiring the land needed to enable an aqueduct to harvest all that wasted Columbia River water and bring it down to the LA Basin.
Just part of the FTAA, free trade area of the americas coming to fruit. Google it up. The globalists want to carve up the world into regions, then eventually into a single world government. It will be called something like the American Union then, or similar. It's coming. This is just a chunk of the nuts and bolts infrastructure to make it happen.
They have to get rid of nations first,and borders, and the easiest way is to create super economic unions first with common currencies and no borders, etc,plus privatise and thereby profit-from what are commonly now public and governmental services. Sound familiar? Witness private corporations taking over prison industries and now municipal water supplies, etc. Look at how many "security contractors" are fighting the wars now. Roads are a biggee as well, much better (from their POV) that some big corporations profit from road travel. Think about it, in the article, they will use private investment money(I bet some tax money gets used as well, or bonds maybe like when they build sports stadiums) to seize other peoples private lands through so called public "beneficial" law, then allow a profit to occur from this seizure and construction and perpetual service project. Sweet deal for them, especially if they make it harder to use the public roads at the same time, which they can easily do by closing off other roads in conjunction with opening the new private ones.. "You", anyone, I mean us semi peons, are being *herded* like stock animals. Fed propoganda brainwashing news, fed similar conditioning propoganda in the movies and on Tv (torture is good!), and etc. Look at the article, the local R reps are against it, I doubt many local people are for building it, but they still are going to do it. Huh? What's the use of having elections if whatever "they" want happens anyway?
I don't have a link handy, but I was reading some months back about them gradually going to almost all toll roads for the highways in texas, precisely because of it's border gateway to central and south america, and then into the entire US eventually, just adding checkpoints to existing roads/highways and by making these super highways. Serves a few purposes,serious forever folding money profit for a few big corps., control the population, better surveillence (combo of black boxes in cars and your highway pass token and internal passport, err I mean the universal ID system you'll suck down when you go down and get your right to travel license), then the upcoming federal sales tax, and the also upcoming tax on miles driven in addition to normal taxes on gallons of fuel bought (you'll pay both, don't live in denial about it, it's coming).
Really, the globalists in their various publications spell all this stuff out and have decades long views and plans, nothing is really hidden if you look for it. They don't like national borders, so eventually they'll go buh bye. Simple as that. These are transnational megabucks corporations who call the shots and could care less what you think. You exist to serve them, period.. They stick their tame politicians in power, and everyone should be able to see that now. It's how they think, act, and do. They make the decisions, you don't, and your vote is meaningless in the long run. They know anyone "you" is a pipsqueak and won't do a dang thing to stop them. They let you complain,and that's it, but you *must* go along with what they say, or suffer the consequences.
This is great news! The quicker we can get through Texas on the way to Mexico the better!
[to austin: much respect, but you're beseiged by a wasteland]
Anyone else concerned that compulsory purchase is going to be used to help build a privately owned transport route?
Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
As a bit of reference, the 55mph speed limit of yore was partly justified as a way of saving gas. And it does, in fact, save a lot of gas. But obviously these days saving gas doesn't matter.
Will somebody please think of the chickens? How on earth can we expect them to cross a quarter mile road?
This is one of those witty signatures that you'll remember.
Sure they can have access... FOR A PRICE! How do you think they will make money back on that 175 bn price tag.
Republicans want cheap labor. Democrats want more poeple to give away to. The sellout of the US to Mexico continues, and you assholes keep voting for them. Story after story about suspicious people coming across the border goes unaddressed and without comment by Homeland "Security".
Ah, what's the point. No one cares.
--- Ban humanity.
If you don't use it, what's the problem with tolls? And if you do use it, why do you think other people should be subsidizing your road use? I travel relatively short distances. I get angry when my tax dollars go to subsidize the excessive travel of other people. And if you really NEED to travel, then suck it up and pay the toll.
Today, the Express Lanes are owned by the regional transportation authority. Why? Because politicians didn't like the fact that they didn't own the road and couldn't use it as a political football.
Thats not quite correct. The problem with the 91 Express Lanes was that the contract with the private operator prevented expansion of the free roadway until 2035. Since the toll lanes did not substantially reduce mainline congestion (as it was assumed they would), once OCTA had the money to widen the main roadway and actually improve congestion, it was in the public interest to buyout the operator's contract in order to allow for the widening.
"(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
I'd rather have it toll than tax. Hate to see tax dollars going into a massive road project that has the primary purpose of taking more jobs south of the border. I'm surprised Bush hasn't pushed for government funding. It benefits both big business and Texas. If it managed to benefit oil you couldn't keep him away.
Since most of the traffic sounds like it will be between Mexico and Oklahoma there shouldn't be anything wrong with it being a toll road. I'd expect it to allieviate the traffic pressure on busy roads you already use while getting money out of traffic that doesn't necessarily belong to Texas.
The important part is when the road will be turned over to the government. At some point those toll roads are going to be paid off and that Eminent Domain declared by the government should be used *for* the government.
What really strikes me as humourous is that it essentially intends to equalize the economies on either end of the corridor. Collin Powell said a couple days ago that the U.S. has already done great things for the countries affected by the tsunamis by having so much of its manufacturing done by them. This is true and greater bandwidth through Texas will accelerate that trend in Mexico as well.
Direct away from face when opening.
1. So, does that mean they will be able justify an making an SUV that really does take up 2 lanes?
2. We still need to get rid of the combustion engine and give people an alternative to using their smog-makers; not spend ~$150bn on a 10 gallon hat style freeway.
3. I'd be curious to the see the satillite photos of the smog over this giant highway if it ever gets completed.
This would be the perfect place to start building some hydrogen gas stations to jumpstart the hydrogen infastructure. $185 Billion dollars for a highway, the least they could do is promote clean driving. If this is going to change the way highways are built it would be a good idea if they could be built cleaner.
When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up... reading.-Henny Youngman
Will there be seperate lanes for legals and illegals?
I'm conservative and I oppose it because I think it's wrong. They're going to declare eminent domain so that a private company can build a money machine with no plans on turning it back over to the government which represents the people whose property was extracted.
.com boom, so what good are broadband transmission cables besides as a buzz words? Texas already gets FTTP in many places. Any more bandwidth and the MPAA is likely to sue them.
Plus I'm a little put off by the mention of broadband transmission cable. The U.S. uses something like 1/10th of the bandwidth created during the
Direct away from face when opening.
Has anyone considered this would make a tasty target to someone terroristically inclined? In one fell swoop they can back up cause massive traffic, sever railroads and freight lines and sever a water, power and broadband transmission system.
Illegals getting out of the US is a big problem too. This is the time of the year when they tie down a bunch of crap in the back of their pickups (some of which falls off) and head back down I-35 over the border for Christmas. I think some of them even hook up tow cars full of crap too.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
I'm sorry, I didn't get to the part where Cintra would relinquish ownership in 50 years.
Direct away from face when opening.
They are similar in that they both involve large, important roads - however, the entire point of the proposed megahighway is to allow people to avoid densely-populated urban areas when traveling long distances.
I'm sick of cleaning deer and cows out of my headlights and front grill. Now I'll finally have a road that will fit my Canyonero.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
I can't wait to drive my International CXT on this sweet piece of asphalt!
Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,
smells like a steak and seats thirty-five..
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down,
It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown!
The Federal Highway comission has ruled the
Canyonero unsafe for highway or city driving.
Canyonero!
12 yards long, 2 lanes wide,
65 tons of American Pride!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Top of the line in utility sports,
Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero! Canyonero! (Yah!)
She blinds everybody with her super high beams,
She's a squirrel crushing, deer smacking, driving machine!
Canyonero!-oh woah, Canyonero! (Yah!)
Drive Canyonero!
Woah Canyonero!
Woah!
How many college students move back to the small town because its "home"?
This is Slashdot! How many of us ever LEFT?
This is the same Rick Perry that was elected as an 'aw shucks' farmer to be agriculture commissioner then turned around and gave Archer Daniel Midland the right to grade all Texas peanuts, including their own, pissing off the otherwise republicna voting farmers aware enough to notice. Of course guess who effectively paid for his campaign? Corruption goes beyond ideology. It's pretty much always bad. The republican base seems to be mainly people like these farmers and ranchers, who are vulnerable to a flag draped propoganda machine such as the republicans have skillfully builr. They're vulnerable because they're uninformed, and it works out beautifully, because they don't even notice most of the time when their beloved 'conservatives' turn around and suck their lifeblood. I often think it is a lucky holdover from a more sensible era that we haven't privatized the roads. Then stuff like this comes along, and I start to get really scared for the future. If the Rick Perrys of the world really get what they want, and pull off the propaganda to support it too.. we're really f*cked for sure.
...but that doesn't prevent arguments being constructed and laws being passed to make it legal. Eminent domain, like abortion, is a specific legal construct derived from the general rights-granting language of the Constitution.
The US Constitution is notable because it explicitly states that the government does not have any powers except those conferred to it in the Constitution. In many cases (*cough* including a surprising number of EU countries), national constitutions implicitly grant the government all powers not specifically prohibited in the document.
Additionally, the Express Lanes allowed (and, I think, still allows) free access for carpools of three or more occupants -- an important incentive for carpools and vanpools able to use HOV (i.e., carpool) lanes at either end (on the 91 in Riverside County and on the 55 in Orange County).
There were air-quality advantages as well -- pre-opening models indicated the Express Lanes would be more beneficial to air quality along the route than simply building more general-purpose lanes or traditional carpool lanes. The former, without tolls, would have just gotten congested (stop-and-go traffic = greater air pollution) and the latter would have removed fewer vehicles from the congested freeway.
I'll grant you your first point, though -- the original franchise agreement was naive on the state's part as well as the franchisee's.
My guess is Wall Street demanded the no-compete clause on new construction (and, truth be told, I would have tried to negotiate the same thing), but anyone who follows California politics for more than 10 minutes could tell you that the odds of politicians leaving the agreement alone were slim and none.
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
In my area, a few years ago, there was an accident on I15 involving a tanker full of something flammable, spilling the load and igniting, ruining the surface of the road. No big deal, divert traffic, fix road.
So, these guys want to put oil and gas pipelines by this magehighway designed to carry tractor-trailers 4 lanes wide, huh? They better have pretty good separation.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
Now that that's out of the way, if you read the article you will see the thing's gonna be built with private money, which any fiscal conservative (like me) can appreciate.
I just hope I'm in a nearby bar with my new intergalactic friend when the bulldozer comes to plow over my house...
http://corridorwatch.org/
"Again, what if you don't agree with your family's religion? Are you suggesting we curtail freedom of religion, one of the most basic principles this country was founded on?"
Not to be nitpick too much, but freedom of religion as originally specified in the Bill of Rights was only meant to prevent the Federal government from trampling on religious freedom/establishing a state religion. Later amendments to the Constitution allowed more progressive members of the court to use those later amendments as a filter to apply the 1st Amendment to the individual states (this was actually a fairly late developement). Not too sure, but I think around WWI was the first time the Supreme Court "incorporated" the 1st Amendment. Family members/interpersonal relationships aren't bounded by the 1st Amendment at all.
I live in Texas and I'm ashamed to say that I haven't heard of this before.
Looking at http://www.corridorwatch.org shows some truely scary details.
This plan comes with all new eminent domain laws attached. The state can take your land for this project for any, even unrelated, reason they decide. Yes, that sentence made no sense, but it is correct. It's like calling "terrorism" under the PATRIOT Act. If they say it's for the corridor, you have to give it up. They do have to make an offer of payment, but if you don't accept, too bad.
Changes in the law have actually decreased the ability to defend your property against the state. Once served with papers, you have 91 days to leave. With this many people in the same situation, how long will the backlog in court be? Good luck getting into a reasonable court in 91 days.
The route from Oklahoma to Mexico will completely split the state. It's like the Great Wall of Texas.
There will be no on ramps or exits, only connections to major highways. That means that you are effectively cut off from places that are only 1/4 mile away unless you happen to be close to the intersection of the corridor and a major highway.
Only certain corridor licensed vendors will be able to operate on the corridor. This will cut out any profit going to local businesses.
Because of the lack of ramps, there will be no increase in property values beside the corridor. In all probability, property values will be incredibly low due to lack of accessability and pollution (smog, trash and noise).
The transport of utilities (gas, water, electricity, etc.) across the corridor will be charged a fee to cross the corridor by the private owner of that section of corridor. BTW, the state can't regulate this fee.
The route from Oklahoma to Mexico is only the first route to be constructed. If you look at the site I mentioned above, you can see that Texas will eventually be chopped up into several sections in this way. There will be many areas that are completely surrounded by corridor, effectively cut off from the rest of the state and subject to fees for any utility that they cannot provide themselves.
So the state is making it incredibly easy for large companies to take land away from the owners, not for the good of the people, but for the corporations to have a monopoly on the land.
Sounds like it's time for all the gun carrying farmers, ranchers and homeowners to take a stand and call for new government.
If this situation doesn't bring about a revolt, nothing will.
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison
will the roads be motorized tracks with fully livable cities on them?
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I've never been to Texas but this looks like a big solution looking for an equally big problem. How does the press release justify it? "Supporters say the corridors are needed to handle the expected NAFTA-driven boom in the flow of goods to and from Mexico". Not the kind of expenditure - financial, social, and political - I'd want to risk on something that's just "expected" at some time in the future.
And why would you mix oil pipelines and optic cable in with a massive roadway? One bad traffic/train accident and half of Texas loses their internet connections. Yes, that's a simplification and/or exaggeration, and I'm sure the engineers would include that consideration in their safety factor calculations. But I get the impression this aspect was dreamed up by some poli or beauracrat that thought it sounded cool. Perhaps some slashdot-reading civil engineer can shed some light on benefits of mixing utility and optic pipes into a massive road and rail way.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
Oh boy! More dumb and obnoxious ideas out of Texas designed to kill people. Who knew that it would come out of Texas... :-o ...no thanks
Wasn't the problem with those expressways that they were built right through densely populated cities? Not that I'm convinced that this one is a good idea, but at least they got one thing right - they are keeping this one out of city centers.
I remember My uncle coming to visit me 10 years ago and laughing because he visits about every 5 years and has for 49 years and doesn't remember a time they haven't been working on I35 just north of Dallas. I have friends that live on a farm in Oklahoma and drive to work in Dallas on I35 everyday. Since I35 leads right into the downtowns of each city it goes through you not only have the heavy traffic from the US to Mexico and back but also the traffic from city to city and the all day with rush hour spiking of a city freeway. We are adding lightrail trains but with the economy going light on local sales tax for the last 4 years it has delayed or stopped the route that was going to come down from Denton along I35 that could have taken out a percentage of the workers that drive it each day.
Enjoy your next dose of Super-super-fast Hurricanes and Tornadoes.
They'll match the Super-super-fast highway to a turn!
Thank God the gas will have probably run out before this ghastly temple to Mammon gets built.
Perhaps it's time for the Rest-of-the-World to tie the Kyoto and Intellectual Property treaties together. What do you think about that?
Just like marketing that shows two out of three dentists use brand A, incomplete numbers are not real as research is not completely valid if the environment it draws from is not studied completely.
This goes with the researcher at Harvard who concluded that Milk potentially reduces the chances of diabetes by studying two groups of kids. One drank more milk and one drank much less to none. The more milk drinking group had less diabetes than the less milk drinking group. But, in the research, there was no reference to what the less milk drinking group was drinking. Maybe water, you think? Probably not, probably heavily sugared drinks (but, we will never know since the researcher did not bother to find out). By neglecting this important aspect of his/her research, the information is not useful. All it suggests is that something that was different between the two groups contributed to diabetes in the less milk drinking group. It does not demonstrate that drinking milk potentially prevents diabetes any more than the numbers from Montana demonstrate that a lack of speed limit prevents or lowers fatal accidents.
InnerWeb
Freud might say that Intelligent Design is religion's ID.
help!!
I read the site, and basically it is whining. yeah, towns like Hempstead in texas had their local economy die when a bypass for TX-6 was built, but guess what, College Station is booming now with new business and activity, even with the highway out of town.
Don't worry, it will never get built. I've lived in San Antonio since birth and I'm not worried in the slightest. Remember the great high speed rail system that we were going to get, the one that would connect DFW/SAT/HOU? It was never built. If there's one thing that Texans hate, it's new taxes. Anyone who thinks that Texans will vote for this is out of their mind.
That said, I'm sure it will get a lot of support from Austinites who hate I-35 gridlock but do you really think that Joe Bob the Mohair Rancher in Rocksprings gives a rats ass about this highway?
Chris
Because this thing just screams "Blow me up! One stop shopping for creating chaos in Texas!"
Meh.
"Well it's not Victory - but then it's not Death either."
I am uncertain that this idea of grabbing the land and then allowing a company to basically make the profits from these displaced inviduals land is a healthy step in the right direction. True, modern roads are paved by private contractors in most cases (that I am aware of), but they do not own the land, nor can private enterprise restrict access to the lands grabbed by the government for the public's use (AKAIK - please correct me if you know of any examples otherwise). I am not certain if the land for toll roads has been grabbed the same way as this suggests. And that 50 year contract is way over the top! About 45 years over the top.
If the company really wants to make this happen and they are wanting to do this with private enterprise, then the company needs to be the one that convinces the landowners to move or give up land (by providing truthfuly appropriate compensation) and the company should not turn to the state for anything but zoning approval (or other required approvals to build and maintain this system.) It could be a great thing to have a large transport system like this, but... One must always be careful of what doors one opens for potential abuse, as they are very hard to close.
In all fairness, if this proceeds, then the people whose land is being grabbed definately deserve a stake in the company that is to derive the profits from the current landowners' land. In truth, this probably ought not happen the way it is being thought up in the first place.
InnerWeb
Freud might say that Intelligent Design is religion's ID.
Not saying that's any less boring, but really the plains of Texas are right up there in comparison.
The time I was on I-40 I believe I stuck more around 80-90MPh - with everyone else. That helped a little...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The word "liberal" is at once an identifier of someone who can think of someone other than themself, the mark of a great person as opposed to a mediocre one, and a person who is likely a good one.
Isn't it easy to state your opinion as an undisputed fact? Isn't it pointless too?
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
John McCain perhaps? There's MANY at the local level in certain areas.
Instead of laying all this concrete and screwing up local economies. What should be created instead is a good, standard gage, government controlled freight rail system. The gridlock and problems caused by trucks passing through will be reduced because a solid freight rail system can be cheaper and more efficient.
Where are the mod points now?!? Not that it will happen though, Texas being built on oil and all.
Restore America: Dr. Ron Paul for President!
I remember coming over the hill on I-80/I-90 west on my way to Chicago and running into this vast field of smoke and industry and thinking to myself, "Hey, it looks like I've just rolled up into Mordor!".
In other news, did you know that Gary is called Gary after someone's last name, and that Gary as a first name did not become popular until Gary Cooper made it so?
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I have read comparisons, years ago now, between Heinlein's rolling roads idea and the big interstates. It isn't that unreasonable when you consider the "road cities" and the larger linear belts of development that appear along major freeways. The freeway conception is more efficient than the rolling roads could possibly be. However, the role of futureist and forecasting doesn't necessarily demand technological accuracy.
... Oh yeah, Seattle, that's ... No, no, it was Victoria in B.C. I saw the ...es in Portland. They were heading this way. Have you seen them?" These may take place between long-distance truck drivers and truck driving couples, couples living in motor homes, and other denizens of the stops such as itenerant prostitutes.
The peculiar society that develops along interstate corridors is complex and a distinct subset of our society at large. Enough so that epidemiological studies are beginning to be concerned about the poor understanding we have of that subsector and its roles in the spread of infectious and sexually transmitted diseases to name just two points.
If you have ever stepped in to a Flying J or similar establishment, there are number of distinct and interesting aspects about the stores, the conversations, and even the technology available. Conversations reveal interesting relationships that are maintained through truck-stop contacts. You hear things like, "Hey, So-and-so! Say, when was the last we ran into each other? Wasn't it outside Portland?
While Heinlein blew the technology, he recognized the economic necessity and social consequences of the giant interstates. Which, really, is more than you can say for the characters who hand out the Golden Fleece awards and similar trendily uninformed criticisms that may or may not pick out the sillyness in research and more often than not demonstrate the judge's remarkable lack of imagination.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
I think we're turning Bra Zil Yun I think we're turning Bra Zil Yun I really think so...
Seastead this.
Now we get to pay for a road to help the Mexicans make more money from our former companies. Go eat a dick.
I haven't 100% made my mind up on this yet, but the fact that it's a toll road REALLY leaves a bad taste in my mouth, all the new roads being built around here are toll now, and that's a major annoyance of mine.
Dude. Your driving imposes costs upon everyone else. Your car enters the highway. More congestion for everyone else. More pollution for your neighbors. More roads are built (at a loss, tolls don't cover full costs of roads in capital and operating). Fuel consumption drives the need for a secure Middle East for the US. And you ask all taxpayers to pay for your driving. Even your local neighbor who doesn't drive. Has to pay for your roads.
"I used to live in Austin, and it's an 8-hour drive to the nearest state line."
Yes, I used to have a car like that.
As the traditional Australian joke has it.
Anyway, fair enough with the ole Texan stereotypes, where's an Alaskan when you need one?
nice post Greg. good to hear from you. Is anyone doing the second point? I am taking a graduate-level Transportation Finance course at Berkeley next semester and it sounds interesting. I can ask my prof. Martin Wachs.
cost:
$175 billion over 50 years
"could" return:
$130 billion over 50 years (plus the nebulous "could generate new business")
So obviously this is a good thing.
But this had nothing to do with the decision, he promises!
From the Houston Chronicle:
Dec. 29, 2004, 10:48PM
Perry says his aide didn't influence highway contract
Consultant cut his ties to Cintra before its selection, the governor says
Associated Press
AUSTIN - A top aide to Gov. Rick Perry who had worked for a company that was chosen for a $7.2 billion state road project had no contact about the project with the company or transportation officials once he joined the governor's staff, Perry's office said.
Dan Shelley had been a government affairs consultant for Spain-based Cintra until three months before the company was picked to build the road project. He was to be paid if the road deal went through, Perry spokesman Robert Black said.
But Shelley gave up that deal when he became Perry's legislative director, and he had no further contact on the issue with Cintra or the Texas Transportation Commission, the Perry-appointed board that picked the company, Black said.
[snip]
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8
Why not paint a big target on it while they are at it? In the unlikely event of a war, I know where I would be dropping my bombs!
If you think it is a waste of money, I suggest that you look at other projects where the private sector isn't exactly footing the bill. Like all other highways, pretty much :)
I agree.
And not to be all tin-foiled-hat about it, but I'd suggest we solve the problem of illegal aliens from Mexico first, then tend to transportation issues.
Moreover, I recall reading that Oklahoma has perhaps the largest concentration of Muslims in the US. It doesn't take a great leap of intellect to consider that some of those persons might not have warm and fuzzy feelings about the us, and would employ the Sgt. Schultzes-as-border-guards, plus this glorious new highway to Okee, and, well, you'd have a bit of a way-station for evildoing field trips.
Of course, that could never happen, and this is just racist blathering from me...
What about flying cars being used in the future? Will traditional highways even be used if a cheap and nearly foolproof flying car is introduced? A VW Bug flying car..?
No sig for you! Come back one year!
Well public real estate will be used for private purposes. through eminent domain.
also costs of building supporting infrastructure around the road will be substantial.
opportunity cost of 1/4 wide swath of land will be high, esp if it goes through large cities and uses prime real estate.
overall driving may go up as more drivers use roads, then use public roads to get to final destination. more demand for public roads. those costs go up. less demand for (potentially) more efficient public transport systems.
more and more indirect costs..
When I think Internet, Oklahoma and Mexico just spring to mind. In fact, I can't believe that Texas has waited all this time to do this!
Why just last week...
Nevermind. Why is this important? Is Dell planning on moving their assembly plants from China to Mexico? Do they really need terabytes' worth of bandwidth between Oklahoma and Mexico City?
This concept seems a little clueless. The idea seems to be to go outside of the major metro areas and build a new jumbo-sized road/train/pipeline from Mexico to Oklahoma. The first thing I think of is that this will merely cause a shifting of population centers away from their current location to the location of this new roadway as people move to where they'll have easier access to the major travel artery. Businesses will want to profit off this road, that'll create jobs in the area around the roads, people will move into the area with jobs, and so forth until the road is again in the middle of the populated area.
They'd be better off creating an improved train system. One set of tracks for commercial use between Mexico, major Texas cities, and into other states. This should include a major express backbone that avoids routing through populated zones. A second set of tracks should be created to connect major Texan cities, Mexico, and connecting states for passenger use. Create, or improve, local train systems that can use automated touting and on-demand cars and have it cross the state-wide train system such that it's easy to move from the local loop and the interstate system.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Easy: plant a few bombs on the megahighway !
OK: it might not be the act of a madman/terrorist but perhaps some natural disaster or accident.
Am I the only one that gets worried when I see too many important things concentrated in a small place ?
I think they'd run it the way the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel is run. That is, you first contract with the state for the rights, and for jurisdiction of a special court district.
Once you have done that, then you have legal jurisdiction though no highway.
Then, you put out bonds, just as any city does (there's your private investment). Once the bonds are out, then you build the highway. Finally, you set up toll gates or whatnot to pay back the money to the investors.
Along the way (for the CBBT) as I remember, the CBBT did default on its bonds, making them technically worthless for about 3 years, but let the investors know "do not part with these, because we're going to repay them." After something like 3 years, they had managed to restructure their debt, and went back to full repayment. Finally, they paid everything off, and then within 5 years were back building another lane.
Current cost per 17-mile trip? $8.50 per vehicle axle. People still find it to be worthwhile, because it cuts out 350 miles of round trip. However, I'm not so sure that the same could be said for a mega highway.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
In any event, I live in Texas now, and grew up in Alaksa. Do I count?
Alaskans like to say how you could split Alaska up in two, and make Texas the *third* biggest state ...
Of course, unlike Alaska, in Texas, you actually drive places. I lived 15 years in Anchorage, Alaska, and never once made it to the second biggest city in the state, Fairbanks, even though it's only 200 miles away. But yet, after living in Austin, Texas for 20 years, I've driven to Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, San Antonio, Mexico, Oklahoma, Arizona and beyond.
Driving from city to city is just a much bigger thing in Texas than Alaska. Sure, people do drive around the state in Alaska, of course. But not anywhere near as often as they do it in Texas.
Texas could definately benefit from some huge roads like they're proposing. Of course, the government is becoming toll-road-happy lately -- for example they want to make many of the existing major roads in Austin into toll roads. Needless to say, we're not happy about this ...
now okies can get marijuana twice as fast :^)
straight out of texas. where else. The rest of the world is cutting back on greenhouse gasses, fuel consumption, exhaust gasses etc and the texans are (as are a lot of the americans) building a superhighway to take more traffic and more gas guzzlin (petrol drinkin for the rest of us) SUV's.
The idea is good, it just lacks the right stuff in the right places - the high speed commuter link, the freight capacity and the infrastructure is cunning, but 7 lane superhighways! in this modern world there should be: high speed commuter (train) links freight lines (train) 2 or 3 freight lanes and then one or two (tolled) car lanes. Emphasis should be placed on the HIGH SPEED train lines, efficient, fast and run like only the swiss and japanese seem to be able too.
It would be refreshing to see the americans come up with new transport infrastructures that dont place central focus on 7 lanes of cars cruising at 3 MPG (an old fasioned british measure of fuel economy - whats that i hear you cry). With that kind of money why not install a high speed rail network, carrying frieght safely through this "central coridor" swiftly and effectivly, with routes running out like branches off a tree to all the major cities, criss crossing the states with central arteries and ofshoots. With the left over money a High speed train line could be installed, to allow people to move fast, safely and in comfort.
If people like driving then surly they like driving down scenic roads, not stuck in the middle of 1/2 mile wide concrete jungle with trucks down both sides and not a sight of fresh air. Bring on the continental (European) winding roads, curving through the mountains and hills, with pretty villages and chateux's nestling in wine producing valleys. If you need to travel down this "Superhighway" surly you would be far happier traveling in comfort on a train (with a view of somthing other than trucks) with a socket to power your laptop, buffet car and space to get up and walk around. If their getting a spanish company in surely someone there can see how it should be done - they are mainland europe afterall, although then again they build big roads paid for by the EU (funded by taxpayers accross europe).
I'll no doubt get modded down to a (-1, Flamebait) for daring to suggest that the future may not be as rosy as we all wish, but have the relevant people taken peak oil into consideration when making such plans? It just seems a little ill thought out to be building new roads on such a scale if they aren't going to be of much use in another 15-20 years time.
See 1 2 3 4 5 or just Google for peak oil.
I was involved with the research on this. I just worked on the Oracle db stuff many, many years ago at Cal Poly under Ed Sullivan.
Dr. Sullivan (CP Civil Eng.) has done a lot of research on SR91 (inc cost/benefit analysis), available at:
http://ceenve.calpoly.edu/sullivan/sr91/
Guys (Texans), if you desperately need broadband, don't add a highway to the list. Just ask for broadband.
Why combine all those roads, rails and pipes? It seems to me such a bundle of systems is much more vulnerable than seperated ones. I mean, one big truck accident with chemicals or fuel and you have to shut down all transportation systems, not something you want to happen...
Repeat after me: We are all individuals
A 1/4 mile highway across state?! If Texas was any good there'd only be roads going into it!
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one less travelled by. (Robert Frost, 1916)
1.) If it's going to attract that much traffic, there has to be at least a gas station (and/or a hydrogen station) with a McDonalds and a Starbucks at the start of each side of that megacorridor.
2.) Eventually a Walmart will rise up somewhere in the middle of that. That would make the quarter-of-a-mile wide superduper highway at least a half a mile already.
3.) Hey, that's Texas, they're going to hit oil somewhere down the road and then they'd have to detour the whole megahighway around the oil rigs.
4.) It's so wide, there would have to be an extra couple of lanes in the middle of it all just to accomodate the billboards.
5.) When are flying cars supposed to arrive?
no sig = no personality(?)
Say, what a lovely, environmentally sound idea. In fact, why don't we just tarmac the entire state?
When the US is considering building quarter-mile wide highways, it really is no surprise they're dragging their heels on the Kyoto agreement. It would have been more radical and forward thinking to spend the money on a state of the art public transportation system, but not to worry, I'm sure you'll learn - eventually.
M.
the protocol
Sadly, you got points for being Funny when in fact that was incredibly Insightful.
I work in a tech industry where oh-so-many of my phone calls terminate in India. There, "Jeff" or "George" tries his damndest to communicate with me over language and culture barriers. He's also got to contend with my hearing loss, which makes it doubly difficult for me to understand English if it has a substantial Indian accent.
Now lets take the work crews here in Texas. Look real closely at new home constructions. Show me the blue collared fellow who ISN'T Mexican.
Globalization will occur regardless of any efforts to deflect or delay it. I believe it is inevitable with so many factors weighing in: populations grow more dense, cultures begin to meld together, borders become less relevant, etc. However, in the here-and-now, we find lots of legitimate citizens, who would pay taxes if they could, out of work due to cheaper available labor from India (in the example of telephone centers) and Mexico.
The argument against that point is that these unemployed Americans can always improve their lot in life with education. Righto. I'll just wheel up to the local university and take out a couple student loans to pay for this improvement. What? I don't qualify? Too much outstanding debt already? I'm only 33!
Okay, build the damn road already. If nothing else, it will greatly reduce traffic on 35.
Whenever Mrs. Fitch breaks wind, we beat the dog.
You know, I think there is an easier and cheaper way to get rid of animals than making them run a quarter mile freeway gauntlet....
:)
If you don't like them, just shoot them
Then again, maybe my "Flattened Fauna" book would come in handy....
Wouldn't a superfast-extrahuge-megacomfortable railway be a more logical and environmentally friendly solution? I'm not a U.S. citizen, which i guess makes me a bit less car oriented. So maybe i'm off here. It just feels a bit that the rest of the developed world struggles hard to do their part in reducing emissions and the U.S....Well don't.
efficient? I don't know about that something tells me that thousands of individual car motors is hugly inefficient itself. Shrugs.
:)
It would be an interesting math problem to find out which is more efficient, I'm guessing the rolling road, though the logistics of construction and repair would be a nightmare, but we need more jobs anyways
Any word on whether this bad boy is going to have bike lanes? ;-)
Currently the railroads are just as clogged as the highways, if not more so.
On a recent trip through Nebraska it was interesting to see the Union Pacific's mainline clogged with trains nearly nose-to-tail and stacked up on sidings for hundreds of miles.
Some transportation experts think the continuing trend of railroad mergers hasn't helped the situation.
The people of Jupiter would like to point out that our planet is bigger than yours. Take that Earthlings.
Bah...!! our Dyson Sphere back home have 100 000 000 times the volume of your puny little sun!
Warning: This sig contains a small bug. ==> *
Wow, talk about a prime terrorism target! Now one well-placed bomb could simultaneously disrupt car/truck transportation, freight railways, commuter railways, electicity, water, oil, gas, AND broadband.
For several years now (since NAFTA was created) there has been talk(hype) about building a "true" super highway.
It would run from the California/Mexico border to the Michigan/Canada border.
We are talking about autobahn-style no speed limit, limited # of on/off ramps per state, and dedicated lanes. IIRC it was also going to be an 'elevated-highway' in environmentally sensitive and urban areas.
I live right in the middle of the Canadian-part of this highway, southern-Ontario.
There have been many community meetings and petitions to avoid this kind of idea, (mostly NIMBY not-in-my-back-yard protests.)
I just hope they can do this in an environmentally neutral way.
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but, in where I grew up, in Canada, I was 12 hours from one provincial border, and 8 hours to the othe provincial border. In Canada, this is how we relieve congestion on the roads. Build one around the cities. That's it. Most vehicles need to bypass the city, instead of go right through it. Simply letting the traffic that wants to go around, actually go around can relieve all kinds of traffic problems.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
1% of us give the other 99% a bad name. Unfortunately, we DID elect them.
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
The $175 billion is the cost for the entire project, which isn't approved yet and consists of up to 10 superhighways criss-crossing Texas.
This first "leg", which is currently the only approved project, will cost much less and if I recall correctly, Cintra's investment is something like 85%, with other, local contractors putting up the rest.
As part of the deal for paying up front, Cintra will collect the tolls and once it's been paid off, the State will then have full control. One of the articles I read said that Cintra has done this successfully with several roads in Spain, but that this would be their biggest project.
And just to be clear "this project" is just the road from East of Dallas to Austin (or is it San Antonio?) The yahoo article linked in the Slashdot summary says it will go from Oklahoma to Mexico, but I remember reading a Fort Worth Star-Telegram article that mentioned the endpoints well inside Texas.
(any factual errors above are entirely mine, as I was too lazy to double-check... Correct me if I'm wrong)
- now terrorists will be able to hit so many targets at once! This could only come from Texas just like Dubya...
consisting of as many as six lanes for cars and four for trucks
That's 3 car lanes and 2 truck lanes in each direction. Bah. We've got that many lanes already in some stretches of the capital beltway here in Washington DC.
I was glad to hear, though, that they're considering rail as well. In western Virginia, they've talked about adding "truck only lanes" to I-81 (which is only two lanes on each side and carries a LOT of trucks). I've always wondered why they don't just put a rail line down the median. I mean, if they expect trucks to roll in at the Kentucky or North Carolina border and go north to Maryland, hell, just put a rail yard at each end, let the truckers pull onto a flatbed, and every hour or so roll another train out. I'd imagine the trip would be faster, cheaper, and more efficient, plus it'd give the drivers time to sleep.
I'm sure there are plenty of "rural" interstate routes and interchanges that'd be ripe for such an overlaid rail network. If you can bring the trucks to within, say, 50 miles of a major city (I-81 is about 55 miles west of Washington via I-66), you'll take a helluva lot of traffic off the interstates, reduce gas use, reduce driver fatigue, and still have the truck industry for the "local" segments. Seems to me it'd be a great hybrid shipping network, easier than bringing rail too close to cities and more efficient than relying only on trucks.
Why not some rail lines? High speed passenger lines between major cities and airports. Smooth double track rail lines for freight. Less environmental impact to build as a few rail lines chew up fewer resources than wide strips of asphalt/concrete. Less impact to operate as loaded trains pollute less than the equivalent numbers of cars/trucks/buses.
Stop building roads to "solve" every transportation issue. Invest in mass transit instead.
And if people don't like the traffic on their roads, they can use the alternatives provided.
What about the fiscal conservatives who think it is a waste of money?
Haven't heard a peep out of them in the last 4 years, except the ones on the left, so why should we expect to hear them now?
So, being future thinking, let's cover 1000 square miles of land with concrete -- hmm, might have to think a little bit about the flooding -- with a project dedicated to lifestyles based on cheap energy. Oh, did you know that concrete itself takes an enormous amount of energy to produce?
Hmm, I've got a competing idea. Let's spend $175 billion reorganizing Dallas and Houston around community/villiage development, linked by public transportation, and dedicate 1000 square miles to greenspace. This second plan may suck but it sucks a lot less than global warming and air pollution.
It's amazing how many people want to stay stuck in the problem paradigm, building roads to solve problems caused by building roads.
I would rather pay tolls than taxes to support highway (interstate highways) building & maintenance. Pay for what you use. If you don't use it, it costs you nothing.
But then I've lived my whole life in NY, and the toll Thruway a way of life if you have to travel east/west north of the PA border, or north/south below Albany.
We're getting a 25% toll hike next year for vague reasons (in part because the tolls also fund the canal system, go figure), but those of us on E-Z Pass get a 10% break, and those of us on the commuter plan are already "locked in" at 2004's rates for the 2005 full-year pass.
I live in Nebraska where the Mexicans, mostly illegal, have taken over a lot of the jobs considered blue collar--mainly in beef and pork processing. In fact, one meat processing company used to have a sign on the Mexico side of the Texas/Mexico border advertising for work here. So, I guess a benefit to this road will be that these illegals will have a much quicker time to get up here.
I am actually okay with immigrants taking those jobs...I sure don't want to cut pig's asses out all day. However, I think there should be better inforcement of immigration laws and a tightening of the border. With a road this large, it just seems to me that illegal crossings will be much easier. I think for the U.S to support the Mexico/Texas part of this, there should be some serious thought about illegal crossings.
Having done so much with so little for so long, I now can do anything with nothing at all.
This is just wrong on so many levels. These people expect to profit from highway traffic for at least the next 50 years, but what will they do when the gasoline runs out sometime in the next 20 years or so? Charge horse-and-buggy users a toll? Sure, we may be able to make the leap to a hydrogen economy for personal transport, but we may not. They should concentrate their efforts on installing an improved electrified rail system. It would divorce the transport method from a specific fuel, and make a far smaller scar on the landscape. Hell, they could even put in solar cell farms to power the system and remove its dependency on the national grid. But, noooooo, they want to pretend the gas will last forever. Dorks!
The subject says it all. My experience with rail shipping, in Canada, is that it's incredibly slow. Stuff showing up a week or more late, on an already lax schedule. I would like to see more rail traffic, but what they are doing is unimpressive.
Next time you go to a grocery store, take a look at that produce - it's shipped by truck because it's there fast, someone is close to the reefer (heating/cooling) to maintain the quality, rather than having a unit die a mile back on a train and nobody noticing. Or you can get your produce a week (yum, yum) later by rail.
You are quibbling on values not on the logic yet committing such errors yourself. Compare your statement to defend mobility:
Don't like it somewhere? You can easily go somewhere else
and your statement to claim that homogeneity is a good:
consolidation of cultural values would be a positive thing for a country's societal health
Those two values contradict. Diversity permits you to escape from localised cultural norms that you dislike. Walking for a week versus driving in a day would not affect the freedom to travel. There are very good reasons for fearing homogeniety including boredom, groupthink and vulnerability to noxious ideologies.
Got to get those wet backs through TEXAS and into oklahoma as quick as possible. When some mexican gets a bomb up thier bum, they only have so much time to get to Oklahoma City and can't be stuck in TEXAS gridlock.
The thing that galls me about this plan is they're talking about using Eminent Domain to appropriate people's land, and then hand that land over to a private company (a foreign owned one no less). Yes, the government can force people to sell land for public use but till recently that has meant state parks, military bases, and such - not private development.
How much do you want to bet the developer is going to recoup their $175 billion investment by snatching up a 10-mile wide swath of what is now farm and ranch land, but will later be prime commercial real estate - and every possible access point to the superhighway - if this plan goes through.
If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers
Having lived in Dallas and now living in Tulsa, I too am concerned about the abundance of toll roads.
In Tulsa, Oklahoma, we have 5 major highways coming into the city. 4 of them are toll roads. The net result is that, unless you are coming Hwy 169 South, you are paying a toll to get here. While it's not a huge deal, it is an annoyance and a detrmiment to the business climate here in Tulsa.
Is there going to be a specific lane in case I want to travel through Texas at a lesuirely rate of 11 mph?
So what? They go because there is demand. As long as there is people willing to hire them, they'll keep going.
See both side of the coins, dude...
I don't have a sig.
I'm sorry, but this is sickening. How much money, wildlife and gas are going to be burnt for the sake of saving people a few minutes?
Dude, we have plenty of open space for bikes. Have you SEEN a map of TX or Oklahoma? Trust me, there are better places to ride than the Interstate.
C'mon, this isn't Portland. Texas is 260,000 sq miles large so finding a place to ride is just not an issue. There are plenty of state hi-ways with nice, big, cushy shoulders. That's where you want to ride.
How's that superconducting supercollider coming along?
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
will it have 16 pixel pipeline's to help ensure that no bottlenecks appear?
Actually, w/o rtfa article, my question is: will this highway be this long along ALL it's length. I live in the Philadelphia area. i476 (blue route) has a portion that is 4 lanes - unfortunately this only lasts for less then a mile. So when there is traffic we still have major congestion as it bottle necks - so it is fairly pointless to have a 4 lane highway.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
When the state of North Carolina needed to build I-540 around Raleigh, the owners of the houses which they bought got 110% of market value.
That extra 10% was to prevent any expensive litigation which would have raised the price of the project, as well as delayed it. I thought it was a pretty reasonable solution, and would urge the state of Texas to adopt a similar policy.
Chip H.
Basically this is an attempt to get the rest of the country to build a city for the benefit of a few Texans who will then suck the profits out all the economic activity on it. This is practically the privatization of government itself.
George "Maximum Monkey" Bush meets P.K. Dick.
What Texas gridlock? Unless you're in Dallas or Houston, the traffic is not that bad. I take trips all the time on I35 from San Antonio to Dallas and I can go a constant 70-75 mph.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
1/disclaimer: i once lived in texas and i have in fact made the drive on 35 from kansas to dallas. ...and although other posters are correct when they say I35 (both versions) at DFW are a bit of sticking point, I still can't for the life of me figure out why Texas thinks it need a 1/4 mile wide piece of blacktop from the mexican border to oklahoma city.
i may be wrong/out of date but i have to say that this sound like using a 3Ghz computer to read email... oh wait...
I wish at was Friday, but I dont want to wish my life away. So I wish it was last Friday.
I've been up and down the entire length of the NJ Turnpike several times and I am pretty familiar with its history. This certainly sounds like Texas's own version of the NJT. For those not in the area (I went to college in central NJ), the NJ Turnpike is a massive north-south highway that runs the entire length of the state of NJ. For most of the length the highway is separated (3 truck lanes, 3 car lanes) and in the north there is an eastern and western spur. The highway carries Interstate 95 for most of its length.
The highway carries a large amount of interstate traffic and is the main artery connecting the north east with the rest of the nation. The state makes some big money on the tolls, however the story of its construction is different. It was built using the New Deal money that is responsible for most of the interstate highways in the US. That kind of federal money just isn't available today for public works projects anymore (if it was then New York's mass transit situation would be very different today).
That being said, a toll road can make a lot of money for the state but it has its drawbacks. Everyone that I went to school with had a negative impression of the state of NJ because all they knew of the state was the turnpike. Whether they came from the north or south, all they saw of New Jersey was the massive behemoth of concrete that dug through the state, and the ugliness which surrounds it. The worst is the areas between exit 14 and exit 12, which is very industrial and does not seem to resemble a "Garden State." The turnpike has contributed to the pollution of the state, is responsible for numerous traffic fatalities, and is a nuissance to many.
New Jersey has a second major highway, the Garden State Parkway, which is for cars only (parkways in the northeast do not allow trucks, my roommate from Texas couldn't understand that one) and is meant as an alternative (yet somewhat different) north-south route through the state. The Parkway connects many of the suburban towns with the NJ shore beach resort areas (its packed on summer weekends). Yet the parkway is not as ugly as the Turnpike since trucks aren't allowed. Parkways in general are more scenic and destroy less of the landscape.
As for comments about the highway becoming a parking lot, it probably won't. The prime example of "the worlds largest parking lot" is the Long Island Expressway, the one main artery connecting most of Long Island with New York City. It's parking lot status is due to the fact that Robert Moses decided to create many parkways around Long Island, not as commuter highways, but as recreational roads, and only one actual road designed for moving people and cargo. The LIE cannot handle this burden and it is hurt even more by the fact that the highway terminates at the Queens Midtown Tunnel, a slow-moving tunnel under the East River which lets out on the even slower moving streets of Manhattan. This Texas Turnpike won't have such a problem.
you will lose your front end to a pothole!
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
and Im offended by what you said! Truth be told, Im offended that what you said is true.
Much less labor, much less fuel consumption. Much less cost for individual carrier equipment. (Can someone else comment on the cost of rail vs. highway maintenance?)
If this is a way to make NAFTA better for everyone, they need to scrap the highway (or at least scale it back to very little) and run rails. If it's a way to generate tariffs on transport, well, rails do that, too.
But they wouldn't need 175 billion dollars for it. If they want to spend that kind of money, they should think about running rail lines through Texas (using some of the rails already there), building over and underpasses for existing rails in and around cities all over the country, running lines around cities to avoid marshalling yards (with their speed restrictions) and building efficient Intermodal systems in smaller towns (there are already such systems in the big ones).
But that would just mean investing in a rail company instead of press-releasing and creating a whole new way of thinking about roads, etc.
I am not sure if your post was directed at me or not, but I will respond nonetheless. I can see boths sides of it fairly well. I think you missed my point. Demand should not dictate violation of law. I have no problem with increasing immigration, what I have a problem with is increasing illegal immigration. I want to ensure these people are who they say they are and I want to be sure they are contributing to society and not to the tax burden.
I am sure there are plenty of law-abiding immigrants who would love to meet the demand here. Let's allow more worker visas to fill that need. If they come here legally and do the right things, they can become citizens then. But just saying that there is demand, so come on over by any means is problematic on a lot of levels. Check out the tex burden to the citizns of Arizona and California sometime for illegals using government sponsored health care. Legal immigrants are more likely to have health care through work or to purchase a plan for their family.
Having done so much with so little for so long, I now can do anything with nothing at all.
Why stop there? How about pedestrian lanes (for cross-country hikers), bicycle lanes (for Lance Armstrong), and motorcycle lanes? 1/4 mile across?! Sheesh!
-Rich
>I mean really, don't illegals have an easy enough time getting into the US? This is the blue collar equivalent of stringing a backbone cable to India.
;)
Oh, don't be such a xenophobe. Illegals will have the same voting rights you or I have.
If you think that's bad, wait till non-US borns can be commander in chief! Next, we'll drop the ban on foreign governments financing US election campaigns.
Oh wait, that ban had no teeth anyways (*cough* *Saudi Arabia* *cough*).
This is a serious post I would love to stand by, but unfortunately I work in the corporate world and sometimes alongside some very conservative, politically active clients. Now that large corporate donars and the right are pushing for immegrition amnesty, illegal licenses, illegal voting and whatever else.
I think the true conservatives in the US are long gone, financed by foreign traders and served by domestic traitors. Non-citizens able to run for US president? That'll help all the "US" companies headquartered in Bermuda with their manufacturing in Mexico. The bribery has never been so transparent. Gee, I hope none of our enemies have deep pockets enough to front a candidate! {/sarcasm}
The high tech industry announced another "super highway" between India and Silicon Valley. It was too incovenient to rely on H1-B visas and off-shoring to do the job officials say. This super highway will consist of direct high-speed airline service and dedicated InterNet-2 links.
Is this the precursor of the 80 tracks wide highway Gibson described in one of his first short stories?
Well, if your going to look at the problem, then look at it.
Your concerned about illegal immigration. Who do you think is hiring these illegals? Thats right, good ol' Jim Bob, owner of Scumbag Construction. The same guy who rants and raves about the "fuckin wetbacks" using his tax dollars for health care. Why? Because the greedy douche bag wants to be able to pay slave wages to his workers, while charging his clients normal rates.
This is just like the fuss over WalMart. People complain about "American" jobs disappearing, and heading to China, yet the parking lots at WalMart are always full of Americans buying t-shirts from China.
You can't have it both ways. Either complain about the problem, and do something to fix it (like verify that the people building your house are "legal", or buying American goods), or accept the fact that if you want to save $15,000 when building your home (or 1.50 when buying a dozen pairs of socks), that the labour will be illegal.
If they're going into this project planning on setting the speed limit at 85mph, that means they'll spec the highway out for safe crusing at around 150mph or so.
That means that 100mph safe comfortable crusing, without fear of being pulled over, will be the norm.
Build it. I don't care how much it costs, build it.
If you think 100mph crusing is somehow unsafe, then your car is an old piece of junk and you need a new one.
We're now outsourcing our infrastructure?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Well, I recently watched a documentary about the autobahn system, and unfortunately there's a lot more you have to do than just removing the speed limits.
The road has to be engineered to support high speeds and safety. That means strict limits on curvature and slope. (Not a problem in Texas, I imagine, but it wouldn't work in Pennsylvania.)
The autobahn has a massive expensive monitoring system with cameras and sensors, and police stationed for rapid response.
The road itself is built better--thicker, stronger and smoother.
All of this costs serious money--Germany spends twice as much per km on autobahn as America spends on interstate, and of course there's a lot more km of interstate. Meanwhile, even in Austin the whining over the possibility of road tolls is deafening. So forget about removing speed limits, at least as far as Texas is concerned.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Somewhat off-topic, but I saw an interesting thing on the railway this week on my drive from south of San Antonio to Nebraska. I was watching a train passing by the tracks, and I noticed that while it was carrying semi trailers, it did not have them on flatbed cars as usual. Each trailer had a set of railway wheels attached to its rear and its front connected to the trailer in front of it. The road tires skimmed along a couple of feet above the track. The trailers were obviously purpose-built, but it was cool to see a new(?) method used to move stuff.
Scenic drives? I take it you've never been to Texas.
I never thought Texas of all states needed such a drastic change in it's infrastructure. It is about time though that they are making designated lanes and I hope they allow certain speeds for each lane. I am wondering if an accident happens or a natural disaster what would they do. You never hear about what any state would do if something bad happens. How many lanes would they close. I personally have noticed that it is not the amount of lanes you have that slows down traffic it is the merging. Solve the merging problem and you have a clear freeway/highway. I mean if you look at the 2 worst places to drive; DC and LA they have turn offs that lead right into a road that has a light within less than 1000 feet. This causes a huge traffic problem.
you never know till you try!
Yes, but route 66 is a little 2 lane road that stops every 10 miles for another POS little town with a mom and pop drug store on one corner and a pig(cop) on the other.
Anyone ever been on the I-459 overpass around Birmingham? I prefer to call it the 459 Superspeedway, if you aren't going at least 85 you're going to get hit for going too slow.
the Political Inquirer
I agree that people ought to put up or shut up. I have a brother who is a site foreman for a contruction crew. He does his best to ensure that his workers are legal and that his subcontractors hire only legal employees. Sure, he could make more money--as his bonus is based on site profit--but he is of the same mind as me. Hire those who have come here legally.
What I am saying is expand the worker visa program. Allow the visas to meet the demand. I work with several people that are on worker/student visas and enjoy it thoroughly. Provided there are jobs available, allow them to come. But document them.
One other thing about your post. I think for the most part we agree. I also think that employers, such as good ol' Jim Bob, who blatently hire illegals ought to be harshly punished.
Finally, on a humorous note, I generally buy Columbia brand socks. I am funny about socks and these are my favorites. They are generally not cheap, although I usually get them when they are on sale. Checking with Columbia, I found http://www.columbia.com/investor/standards.cfm. So, not only am I not buying those cheap Walmart socks, but I am also checking to make sure my sock manufacturer is not employing slave labor to the best of their ability.
Having done so much with so little for so long, I now can do anything with nothing at all.
On the homepage there is an option to vote for how long you think the State of Texas should plan out -- I suggest reigning in the dreamers and narrowing their attention span to current problems on the abysmal Tx roads (I-35, for example, is a joke; as are all the major thoroughfares in San Antonio [what a mess!]). So, I'm asking for your help.
Please vote for "5 years" and give the Zip Code of the Texas Dept of Transportation as the requested Zip Code: 78761.
5 years and 78761.
Do it for Texas. Do it for America.
Thank you.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Now I wonder who is going to PAY for that. It would benefit no Texans, but Texas seems to want to build it. No one has said who will pay for it. It is now supposed to have water and gas and whatever pipelines running beside it. It is supposed to have huge excess capacity to carry traffic. Now where is it to go but just to Oklahoma?! Oklahoma has some water courtesy of the Army Corps of Engineers, and Texas has its own water sources and is not in that great a need. So who needs the water. The answer must be the other shoe, that this mega road will not stop at the Oklahoma border, but will continue on to Chicago. The largest feature of this thing will not be the 'extra lanes for trucks', but a very large pipeline for water from our American Great Lakes to be piped to Mexico. You see there is a limit to how many or our jobs can go to Mexico, because there is not enough water in all of Mexico to supply all the planned factories. In order to completely de-industrialize the United States and export our jobs out without limit and completely impoverish the United States, a way has to be found to supply Mexico with an unlimited supply of water. One more new wrinkle, once exported to Mexico, that water can be re-exported to third countries as well, like China. It is known that Mexican workers are not the most skilled, but they are getting there. Mexican workers are not the best paid, but union campaigns are proceeding there as they did here 70 years ago. Big business will probably use this road to cheat both the United States AND Mexico in a grand water export scheme. Look for questionable new port developement plans for some Mexican west coast port. It could maybe be done in Puerto Vallarta and disguised as a 'tourist developement related' project. China needs water for 300 million Chinese right now just to supply her people let alone her industry that makes 80 percent of our consumer goods now that used to be made by Americans. In the future these needs will increase exponentially. Once started, these exports will become vital national interests of China or any other recieving country. Conceivably China might ally with Mexico and invade us in order to keep dispossessing us. History is written by the winners and the fit to survive. I would prefer that we were survivors and that my grandchildren not have to speak Chinese
Corridorwatch has this to say about passenger rail:
Passenger rail hasn't worked anywhere in the world except in dense urban districts -- That ain't Trans-Texas pardner! And that's too bad since this is the only forward thinking transportation element in Corridor plan.
This is blatantly not true. Modern highspeed trains connect major cities throughout the world, except for the Americas and Africa, it seems (though I'm unsure about the latter). And between the cities what do you have? Sparsely populated countryside.
Between many major European cities train competes well, especially on distances below 700 km (trains usually lands you in the city center, and involves a minimum of hassle boarding and leaving, while aircrafts, well...).
Actually trains don't have to be hightech to be useful. The majority of the Indian railroad system is extremely basic, but highly functional and makes travel in India a delight.
Scenic drives through Texaz? Have you ever driven through Texas? The only 'scenic' part is seeing the 'Welcome To Texas' Sign in your rear view mirror.
I agree with this statement. I lived in Japan for almost 3 years. The tollways are severely underused due to the high tolls. To be fair, you can get pretty much anywhere you need to go on the trains and subways. A high population density is great for public transportation. It is the equivalent of half the US living in California.
His lineage is one of blue-blooded Nazi-collaborators from New England.
Yeah, right.
"The data provided is interesting, but not useful in the context provided. Sure, on those roads (with what traffic density?), a small drop in the fatality rate occured. What other events or changes happened at the same time (weather, cars being used, ...)?"
The "safety" movement has been using incomplete analysis for decades. Passing laws to make us safer , but when we are not made safer using excuses to cover their tracks. When you experiment on populations of people with laws and such it is very hard to isolate variables. What you are left with is a high degree of speculation and "common sense" which is quite often wrong. That is why we vote on such things instead of leaving them up to self appointed experts. Analysing populations of people and making useful conclusions is far more an art than a science.
Have you ever driven across the Texas plains? I NEVER considered them scenic.
as if. your type II civilization is no match for our type III construct which harnesses all the energy from the entire galaxy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale
Actually, federal highways heavily subsidize the trucking industry. Semis do *FAR* more damage to roads than passenger cars, and they pay little extra for doing us this "service".
I advocate making it illegal for semis to use the interstates during rush hours.
I also advocate moving AWAY from using semis for interstate hauling. (The first step of this above).
When was the last time you heard someone tell you they wanted to carry on the family tradition of a particular trade.
but i don't want to be a drunken lumber jack like my grandfather.
I swear Birmingham drivers are among the worst I've seen. So are Utah drivers. "Ooooooooooo, look at the accident! Let me slow down and rubberneck!"
Did you know you can be apathetic to apathy? Not that I give a shit...
read the article
I-35 has been in need of and upgrade for 20 years.
this is it. if you've ever been stuck in traffic on I-35 you know this is long overdue. they are planning ahead.
Better look again. The US uses a very extensive rail system for sending freight.
In the US we do not waste our trains on the task of moving people - we send people via air transport. Though the population spread in the US is different, so rail transport for people makes less sense.
I realize this is Texas we're talking about here, where a man's value is often measured by the size of his belt buckle and BIGGER is BETTER, but I question the intelligence of this design.
Some questions that come to mind:
Do you really want to encourage more passenger vehicle use?
How might you design something that takes vehicles off the road or makes transport in general MORE EFFICIENT? Does this design do that?
How exapandable will this be in 50 years once it's full to capacity?
If this is the "uberHighway", what happens when you have to do maintenance on it?
Is there any new technology that might be developed in the next 50 years that would obsolete some or all of this?
Just food for thought.
...there should be multiple parallel highways. One for people who got special license that verified they could handle speeds that exceed 65 MPH. You can't pass the test, you don't get to use the road. Another one for commercial vehicles. And finally another one for normal drivers who keep under 65 (or 55 depending on your state). But, a key to making this a bit more aesthetically pleasing is to make sure the roads are actually sunk into valleys that keep them below the sightline of commercial and residential areas. There would need to be good drainage to prevent the valleys from filling with water too. So, this project sounds like a similar version to my thinking. It's too bad that they'll probably savage some green space in the process thereby making the world slightly uglier.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
I live along the I35 corridor, about a mile and a half from I35, actually, in Waco. Traffic is OK on most days. But Friday evening, and holidays, it's gridlock. I hate it on Fridays & holidays.
This sounds like just another dream project. I don't think they'll really do anything. I'd bet they'll just keep trying to widen I35. After all, the orange barrel is the state bird of Texas, and they seem to flock all over I35.
It doesn't take a great leap of intellect to consider that some of those persons might not have warm and fuzzy feelings about the us, and would employ the Sgt. Schultzes-as-border-guards, plus this glorious new highway to Okee, and, well, you'd have a bit of a way-station for evildoing field trips.
Of course, that could never happen, and this is just racist blathering from me...
Nope, not just racist, but also paranoid. Sorry to break it to you, but as long as we have open borders like we do now, "they" will be able to get in. This new supermegahighway will not make us more vulnerable than we already are.
If it makes you feel any better, there's no way in hell there's going to be a terrorist attack in Oklahoma.
-AC in NYC
You are a LIBERAL in almost every sense of the word. You are still living in the 9/10 world, where growing the economy is not important and protecting America is of secondary importance. It is dumbass liberal idiots like you who almost destroyed this country by getting Kerry elected. Thank the Good Lord for us true conservatives who know the difference between what is right and what is wrong.
Totally awesome! Let's call it the hyper-mega-highway! That's awesome! Highways are totally mega-awesome! I can't wait to drive my 52 ton giga-monster-truck SUV all over this awesome hyper-maxi-super-highway! AWESOME!
RoadRailer. The concept has been around in some form since the '60s or so.
---PCJ
Spoken like someone who's never actually driven on Texas' roads. Take Dallas for example. We already have an outer ring (I-635) and we're working on another (I-190). 635 is a daily mess and 190 isn't even finished yet and already it's getting super congested.
As I mentioned in a previous post, thanks to NAFTA congestion on I-35, the main North-South corridor for NAFTA traffic, is not only bad it's getting very dangerous.
I can only assume by your comment that you disagree with the poster. You actually beleive terrorism is something we should really be concerned about...
You're thousands of times more likely to be killed in a car accident than by a foreign terrorist.
You're tens of thousands of times more likely to be killed by preventable disease than a foreign terrorist.
You are thousands of times more likely to be murdered by a common criminal than killed by foreign terrorism.
Here in the US, you're more likely to be killed by lightning, falling off your roof, the flu, tripping on the sidewalk, just about anything you can think of that regularly kills people is more dangerous that foreign terrorists.
Yet when someone points out how ridiculous it is that we US citizens spend all this money to avoid the tiny risk of terrorism, you take it personally? Sometimes the truth hurts, suck it up.
Bottom line, if you live in the US and are honestly concerned about terrorism, you're either a coward or a fool. Take your pick.
>Checking with Columbia, I found http://www.columbia.com/investor/standards.cfm [columbia.com]. So, not only am I not buying those cheap Walmart socks, but I am also checking to make sure my sock manufacturer is not employing slave labor to the best of their ability.
I checked your link, it doesn't mean much. I deal with Walmart, and they have a very similar disclaimer (WARNING: PDF file).
I don't know specificaly about Columbia socks. But I work in the apparel industry and I can tell you that this sort of thing means nothing, other than that your socks were not produced by slaves (in the most literal sense possible) or by 3 year olds. Which is better than nothing, but it's no garuntee that Columbia is one iota better than WalMart on this.
Wasn't the oil revenue from Iraq suppose to pay for the war too? How well is that one going?
In Europe, we have high-speed passenger train networks (see TGV or ICE at Wikipedia) where trains can travel at >300 km/h (200 mph or so).
Wouldn't that make more sense than solely relying on car traffic..
I'm concerned that putting so much infastructure in one place makes for a juicy target. Thankfully the Cold War is over, and Bin Laden hasn't been able to mount any of their large terrorist strikes in the U.S. lately... but still you never know what the future holds in terms of natural disaster or human conflict.
That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it, it just puts one check in the "con" collumn.
... and bring on the super super super highway!
Hands up - Who's for paving the entire state of Texas?
"Fiscal conservatives"? Didn't the Neo-cons bump them off in the American version of the Night of the Long Knives on Sep 11th/12th 2001?
If "fiscal conservatives" expect me to pay attention to them, they'd fucking better start opening their goddamn mouths and condemning the profligate spending of ALL politicians, before America is bankrupted by their own Republican Godheads.
[You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
If the company does 100% of the work, then they get 100% of the road and the state gets nothing. As it is planned now, the state would get the road in 50 years and they don't have to do a whole lot to meet their end of the deal. It seems like a win-win to me as far as the developers and the state are concerned. It sucks for the people living in the path of this thing but that's progress for you.
How is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?
Texas Land Owner Cowards deserve to have their land stolen by the State.
If yea aint willing to die for your property then step aside pussies!!!
No. Not unless that 'common criminal' is your spouse, ex-spouse, ex-SO, relative, business partner, or someone else close to you personally.
Random murders are extremely rare. When you factor out the accidental deaths (i.e., the wrong person got hit, or bystanders in the area at the same time), you have even less chance of random murder taking anyone out. (Outside of the US, it is almost unheard of.)
So to clarify, you are thousands of times more likely to be murdered by someone you know than by a terrorist. Small comfort that.
BTW, when husbands wives and associates murder someone, they become "common criminals". Sure random murder is rare, but common criminal murder, unfortunately, is not.
Read the stories about Quabbin Reservoir, built in Massachusetts in the early 20th century.
The state started floating plans to build a massive reservoir in the middle of the state, essentially taking and submerging three small but thriving towns. But the stories were floated many years before the land was taken.
Since no one would buy land there due to the threat of having land taken, the towns shriveled, and the state stepped in and paid pennies on the dollar for the land because it was now worthless.
Heh. Yep. And you have been for many years.
I know, it makes no sense. But you've gotta move with the times! (So they tell me...)
It's already happened all over Europe and the rest of the world.
Like your water. United Water (provider to Atlanta, Milwaukee and Washington D.C., etc.) is owned by the French company Suez Lyonnaise (trading as ONDEO).
Vivendi-Environment (also French) own the largest American water provider, U.S. Filter.
Why not the roads? Hell, why not everything? Lowest bidder, value for money, tax cuts. Utopia, isn't it? Of course your trusty Government officials will ensure these private corporations behave themselves, won't they?
To be honest, I think it's as crazy as you do. However, my country, the UK seems to be so in thrall to the image of American capitalism that they follow it to the letter even when it makes no sense.
Our only hope is that some of the more obvious craziness in the system is abandoned by the US. There's a growing movement to ensure the local ownership of water utilities in the US, and that's great. For the UK, I can but hope that our ridiculous 'elected dictatorship' Parliament gets radically reformed sooner rather than later.
A relatively-lightweight motorcycle with two small tires does far less damage to our highways than a loaded 18-wheeled semi on fat tires. Trucks rip the pavement (asphault or concrete) into little rocks that fly up at our windshields. Why don't they pay for that?
For illegal aliens and drug trafficking.
Can you imagine how many armadillos a road like this would kill? It boggles the mind.
If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers
When oh when are we going to have some leadership? Making bigger highways, producing more cars, depending on more oil. When oh when are we going to have some leadership that will lead us to oil independance? Have we learned nothing of the oil imbargo of the seventies? If we did, thirty years later, our leaders would of had our country on an energy independance course. When oh when are we going to get our heads out of the sand and realize that continuing to depend on oil is a hopeless proposition. When oh when are we going to encourage mass public transportation? California is a mess. Because of lack of leadership in California, there is not a way a person can easily travel from one end of the state to the other using only public mass transit. You are doomed to being forced to use a car. Try taking a train to LA and transfering to the airport. You can't without paying a $30 van ride. Unless of course, you want to lug all your luggage on a public bus! Why didn't our leaders think to connect LA's union station to the airport with the Metro? Or try taking a train from Fresno to LA. You have to get off the train in Bakersfield and board a bus to LA's Union Station!!!. Talk about lack of vision. When oh when are we going to stop fooling ourselves that we are spreading Democracy in Iraq? When oh when are we going to start encouraging conservation? When oh when are we going to start encouraging recyling? When oh when are we going to start encouraging alternate fuels? If we as a society truly wanted to spread our way of live to all living inhabitants of this earth, the earth as we know it will be a sucked out, lifeless piece of shit floating around in the universe. It is totally absurd to think that 10 percent of the world's population can continue consuming 25 percent of the natural resources and expecting the rest of the world to follow that lead. If we as a scociety truly wanted to lead the world, we need leadership that will encourage, at best, not using any more natural resources than we put back, and at best, put back more than we have used. There already have been projects that prove, a house can have zero impact on the local environment, if we choose to encourage its use. As Chris Rock to eleguently puts it, "The hypocracy of Democracy" When oh when will we have some leadership? Leadership is done by example, not by legislation and imperialism!
... the roads must roll...
This comment does not exist.
I'm gonna be skeered once Alaska decides to build a superhighway :\
I'll bring up some points and later options:
;P) to mexico, then build a dedicated rail line which would accomplish the same feat.
1. This is simply a transportation infrastructure project. It's designed for passenger vehicles and commercial trucks, each partitioned in their own lanes.
2. WTF is wrong with rail lines? How much cheaper would they be? If the goal of this project is to ensure that commercial traffic can pass smoothly from north texas (ok, OK
3. Profit?
My opinion? Simply another shot in the dark, dumb texas a la Bush ideology in full swing. This only benifits the contractors (Bush), future maintainers (Bush). Rather then work towards future transportation mechanisms (air travel), let's whore out and expand oil based land travel to it's Texas-Potential(TM).
There are lies, damn lies, and _______.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
How W. made his money: government seized property for the stadium site and much surrounding acreage for development of restaurants and bars and such. Imminent Domain made the land grab cheap. And the team owners benefitted from the surrounding development.
If there is a case for seizing private property by a government to build a sports stadium (and I doubt there is), there is no case for what happened in Arlington. No case but corruption.
Nothing like the sacredness of property, eh?
The conservative argument will be about eminant domain vs. private property rights.
The best I have come up with is just to ignore tham as much as possible and re arrange your life such that you don't *need* to be "in the system" as much as most folks. Use cash and barter, not CCs and credit. Live rural where you can grow a lot of your own food, have your own water supply on site. Produce your own energy via the alternatives. Buy recycled and used stuff instead of new all the time. Reduce your income but increase your wealth via tangibles, eliminate the need for their scam money and scam banking system as much, helps to keep the taxman away as a bonus. Fork with them,monekywrench, these stores that want all your info for purchaisng with those loyalty cards and whatnot, give em a song and dance when you fill them out. I don't have kids but I encourage people to homeschool, as a way to break that mass brainwashing and conditioning that is done in the public schools.
and etcetcetc
Besides things of that nature, nope, not a lot you can do. One big hint to young folks, don't "enlist", don't take that temptation of the cash and "free college!" crapola sign on bonus they use, don't fall for the rah rah rah propoganda commercials on the TV they run like with football games and etc.. You sign away your rights as a human when you do that,and also put yourself into physical peril, not only with scam wars but with the dang shots they make you take and being around stuff like DU munitions, this generations ignored "perfectly safe agent orange" fiasco that is hitting people. Joining up is like voluntarily installing gator on a life sized scale to your person. If you get married, don't get their permission, their license, just don't. Don't register your kids with "social security". don't take their number, their mark. People joke about it, but it's true, they are turning people into basically warehoused pieces of stock so you have to say "no" and make it stick as much as possible. And if you work in IT, don't take a job that you know is producing something "wrong", don't do that surveillence command and control work when you know it will be abused by governments and their controllers, the transnationals. Find something else to work on instead.
The problem is millions who don't care and just go along with any weird crap,cash the check, say "I can't do anything about it". You can, you can NOT do stuff you know is ethically wrong or stupid or lame. The only rational solution is really just one person at a time making a decision to not go along with it and follow through wherever you can in all the things that confront you daily. For instance, I was always a big radio shack shopper, and I never gave them all that info they always wanted. I always ranted at the checkout, loud enough for anyone to hear,got the manager over, then told them to write in crap for name and phone number and stuff, else "no sale". I always bought what I wanted too, took a few minutes every time at the counter, but as we can see, thousands of folks did that and RS STOPPED asking those questions eventually.
Besides that, I have no easy answers, because there are none. It isn't one proble, it's the combination of hundreds of smaller problems, so you address each one as it appears.
I know I refuse to vote for any D or R though, too compromised and corrupt to be of any use nowadays, and I never bought that "lesser of two evils is better" noise. I don't care if it's just one vote in the total election tally, it's still the vote I personally have to cast. It's too valuable and precious a commodity to me personally to waste on one of those paid off bribed and blackmailed D or R losers, that's for sure.
Since you are ok with illegal immigrants doing the dirty work for Americans, then by tightening of the border you sure mean taxing citizens of Mexico, right?
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
Don't use it. It's going to be PRIVATELY financed.
Dream on.
This will be bailed out by taxpayers. Mark my words. First oil-price spike, and they'll be whining to their Uncle Sam for a handout. Then they'll lay off all the toll-collectors two weeks before Christmas.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Gas pipelines next to highways and transitways?
Sounds like a terrorist's wet dream.
I used to live in Illinois, where the Toll Road is the State Bird.
I moved to California, where there's, I believe, one, toll road (recent).
Days when I stay at home, I still pay for the roads. On the days that I drive, I'm thankful that they're there. I'm doubly thankful that I don't have to sit in a 45-minute queue waiting for the privilege of paying fifty cents, burning hydrocarbons while my car idles.
EZ-Pass is a great mitigating technology for the HUGE transaction cost burden on the user of toll roads.
But in my opinion, we're all still FAR better-off when road are paid for by everyone, instead of just the user. Call me a commie. But a truly "Free Market" doesn't hide costs from the consumer. Free Market idealism is fine and dandy. But it's a dream of a fairy tale, and has little to do with how the real world works.
As far as toll roads go - I've lived in both worlds, and greatly prefer public-funded roads.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Trust me.
One way or another, taxpayers are going to pay for this. Private business (mostly very large multinationals) will reap the benefits, at the expense of local small business.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I am not sure what you mean with the idea that tightening our borders has anything to do with the citizens of Mexico. Are you saying something analogous to the idea that if I install a security system on my house, I am taxing my neighbor the thief? Or, are you asking if I think it is important to ensure workers are here legally and paying the proper income taxes?
My answer to the second part is yes, I believe that if they wish to come up here and work, they should pay the same income taxes that regular working American's pay.
Secondly, you have the main point of my position completely wrong. I do not think it is okay for illegal immigrants to do any work in the US. I am for legal immigration. If people want to come here legally, more power to them.
Having done so much with so little for so long, I now can do anything with nothing at all.
Obligatory teen quote:
"But, like, it's so awesome - everywhere I've lived, I can just go to the mall, and, like, go shopping. You can buy these really cool like, stuff, and like, watch the OC..."
you get the point. gee, just makes me proud to be an american.
don't even get me started on letting these morons drive when they're 15.
Fresh fruit and produce probably does move by truck (and you pay for it), but your boxed and canned goods move by rail. Spoilage in Del Monte tomato sauce is pretty low. There's a running joke about oatmeal running by slurry pipe (well, in some circles....).
Basically, you've got a hierarchy of shipping rates, most to least expensive being air, expedited ground (FedEx, UPS), local drayage, long-haul trucking, rail, barge, bulk maritime, and pipeline. The difference in cost very marked. The slower methods are best suited to bulk goods where it doesn't particularly matter what specific item you get, just how much (crude oil, grain, coal, lumber).
Costs are based on both fuel and labor costs. Rail crews run about 6 per train (IIRC), a 110 unit train can carry 400+ 40' containers (more in "SixPac" and related specialized configurations). The same load on trucks requires 200 drivers. A barge equals about 15 rail cars or 60 trucks. And a large container ship will handle thousands of containers. Comparative fuel requirements: 1 gallon gets you about 60 ton-miles by truck, 200 ton-miles by train, and 515 ton-miles by barge. Source.
That link includes a calculator so you can compare fuel costs. Assuming 1000 tons, 1000 miles, and $1.50/gal fuel costs. truck works out to $25,338, rail to $7,426, barge to $2,918. That excludes labor and capital costs, as well as insurance (cost of covering damaged shipments is a considerable expense).
In the early 1990s, Mid-Western droughts lead to historically low water levels on the Mississippi. One consequence was a tremendous increase in rail traffic as loads which would once have moved by barge went by rail. Great if you were a railroad, not so good for shippers and farmer.
The big development of the past three decades has been "intermodal" transport. Shipping containers to you and me. A container is filled at the factory in China, trucked to a rail point, trained to a shipyard, shipped to a US port, railed to a local delivery point, and trucked to local destination.
In practice, runs of < 300 miles tend to be cost-effective for truck, anything more, rail, and if a navigable waterway exists, ship.
Last I looked into it (about 15 years back) there were expedited intermodal cross-country tarrifs for 7-14 day delivery. Perhaps not "JIT", but useful for those who figure a rolling warehouse is useful (and railroads had to fight for years to get their boxcars back on time). Did a college research paper on the Japanese fresh broccoli market. That was crop from Salinas Valley, California, via refrigerated intermodal transport, to Japan, across 8,000 miles of ocean, in 14 days. Feasibly. Pretty impressive.
Not a railroader, but I've known a few pretty well.
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
To come up with a human powered vehicle that can hump 60,000 lbs of Cattle from Texas to Nebraska.
Actually, they did come up with that - it was called a cattle drive - and true it was actually HORSE powered - and would be a old Texas tradition.
Heck I could even see the drive sharing the road with the Ipod, PDA toting commuters in their ultralights. All would be needed is an occasional stampede or two - which would encouage the ultralights from a speed perspective.
Less than six wheels - stary the hell of the right-of way.
Here is one made in the USA (wow, Oregon, surprise!):
http://www.nevco.com/
Texas is fine the way it is. What most of you don't know is that Texas is like the Tardis on Doctor Who.
It's bigger on the inside then it is on the outside.
http://edition.cnn.com/US/OKC/ Hmm.... I guess that depends on who you define as terrorists, doesn't it?
Jethro Tull. Nuff said.
YUO FAIL IT!
Really, Kansas is not as bad as most people make it out to be - I've driven the length of the state along I-70 a few times now and there is at least a little variety to the landscape.
Texas and Oklahoma are (generalyl) the flat, flat places that everyone imagines Kansas to be. Yes I know Texas has mountains somewhere, but they are practically swallowed by the state.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Dude. Your driving imposes costs upon everyone else.
Dude, your crazy self-centered argument could apply to everything. Why should I pay for fire and police protection in your part of the city, when different stations cover mine. Why should I pay anything towards the U.S. military, when I don't life in a large city and am under no threat from terrorist attacks.
And you ask all taxpayers to pay for your driving. Even your local neighbor who doesn't drive. Has to pay for your roads.
Thats because all taxpayers benefit from having good roads, regaurdless of how much they drive.
If you've ever seen an old gigantic Sears/Wards store from the early part of the 20th century, they usually had rail lines running right into them. Along with every other warehouse or factory. So it's not like it's impossible, it's just not the model in use.
According to the article, they're talking about spending $175 billion to build this edifice, but it's only going to bring in $135 billion in toll revenue over 50 years. That means that either the economics fail, and a toll road company would be unlikely to invest in it, or else they'd have to pour in at least $40B in tax funding, possibly a lot more if they're doing big favors for their politically-well-connected good old boys in the toll road business. Surprisingly, that's only $2000 per Texan worth of pork barrel, until you get to the hidden costs that probably inflate it way above the $175B costs or find that the toll revenues aren't close to the predicted $135B, so the shortfall's even larger.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
So the guys who came up with this idea have seen the movie The Day After Tomorrow, and are making sure the route to Mexico is profitable ( just in case )?
Haha, yeah, well in those days they didn't have giant Box stores all over the place. Did Sears have the 4K or so stores nationwide that Walmart has today. At it's height, A&P had 15,000 stores nationwide (I think)... did all of those have rails running up to it?
It's just not practical.
Another hard fact for current vehivles is that the faster you travel, the more fuel you burn. So, the faster our speed limit (what we drive, not what is posted) is, the more fuel we consume, the more expensive it is (though not nescesarily not cost effective) and the faster we burn through the fuel de jour.
InnerWeb
Freud might say that Intelligent Design is religion's ID.