Slashdot Mirror
Mac OS X Tiger Goes Gold
bonch writes "Following up yesterday's story, AppleInsider now reports that Tiger build 8A428 has been deemed the Gold Master for shipping. Sources expect an announcement of Tiger's completion sometime tomorrow." There are far better days to make a product announcement, should a company wish to be taken seriously, but it worked for Gmail!
Apple was founded on an April Fools Day, so this would really be an anniversary event.
8==8 Bones 8==8
shortage of mac minis in the coming weeks
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
Great now I wonder if it will run on my spanky new G3 iMac i just bought off ebay.
And where can I buy it in Little Ole' Texarkana, Arkansas
Yesterday:
Apple will sometimes seed several final candidate builds before one is declared gold master...'"
Today:
Tiger build 8A428 has been deemed the Gold Master for shipping
Damn that was fast! I can't believe I miss those builds!
It would be the best joke on Microsoft if Apple costumed TIGER as Longhorn.
Where Macs Belong in the Living Room
An April 1 announcement from Apple actually sort of makes sense, because Apple was incorporated on April 1, 1976. That makes tomorrow Apple's 29th "birthday."
It's good to see that Apple is delivering Tiger on time. Some might even say it's early.
Is there any word about whether they'll offer cheap updates to people who recently bought a Mac? I've heard that they've done so in the past, and I hope that they do again, because I just got my iBook yesterday.
-- $SIGNATURE
now if only if i had a computer fast enough to make pearpc usable...
http://www.rayn.net . Funny. Stuff.
So when is Ocelot coming out? And how many big cats are left? Lion, lynx... lynx is overused and probably won't be picked... Any other names?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
When will new computers ship with this preinstalled? I am considering getting a Powerbook soon, so I hope there will not be a long wait.
The toad can't burp - and for some reason can't fart either, so it swells up and eventually explodes. --Anonymous Coward
I've just been looking at the Tiger preview stuff on Apple's website. it's been there for ages but I never bothered with it until now.
I knew the features were cool but there were a few extra surprises, like in Dashboard there's a language translator that translates your words as you're typing. it looked really cool - he was typing "French fries" which was dynamically translated frenc->francais->pommes frites as more letters were typed. I didn't notice a USA ("Freedom fries") option in the language list though.
Automator looked far cooler than I'd imagined too.
I must say I don't like the new look of the email app though. I love the current skin.
And Tiger is going to be a beautiful release. There are features in it, especially the searching and process automation, that I've been dreaming about for years. The searching technology first appeared in BeOS with its attribute-based filesystem, but the process automation is actually something that a company I worked for ten years ago tried to invent and couldn't get it working properly. When I saw it on Apple's demo page for Tiger, I basically saw exactly the same thing that we tried to do...
All I'm trying to say is that I thoroughly understand the depth of Apple's success with this software, and the technical achievement they made. This is a UNIX that can do so darn much.
Announce on April Fool's day, and then just mine the April Fool's posts on slashdot for good ideas!
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
...acccording to Amazon. It's the top Amazon software and electronics item, which is pretty amazing considering it's outselling TurboTax and the iPod.
I ordered mine already, of course...
Apples site already slashdotted - somebody please setup mirror for tiger 8A428.
;)
I'm with you. Every version of OS X is better than the last. I just have to wait for a few programs to be Tiger certified (Digital Performer, Protools).
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
...but aren't you supposed to be finishing up Longhorn instead of reading Slashdot? :)
In the past, when Apple has upgraded their OS versions, they have done the following:
(1) customers who purchased a new Mac 30 days (the exchange peroid) before the announcement get a free upgrade CD in the mail (or at an Apple Store perhaps?)
(2) new Macs being built come with the new OS on the hard drive image from the factory.
(3) computers in inventory get their boxes sliced open and a new OS upgrade CD (DVD?) dropped in. This disk requires the install drive to have an OS on it already, so it is not the same as what comes on the boxed OS CD.
I have also read other reports from people who got a free iLife upgrade because of (1) having that CD dropped in their Macs as a separate disk, not the OS and iLife on a single disk.
This may usher in the era of Mac OS missing iTunes/iPhoto/iMovie/iDVD/Garageband on the same CD - thus reinforcing the concept of iLife as an application suite and the OS as a standalone product. Don't look for these new iLife apps on the Tiger install CDs purchased from the store. (But as always, new Macs come with Mac OS and iLife as well as Quicken.)
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
If it's true that Tiger has gone golden just to meet an April 1st deadline, how many significant bugs do you suppose Apple let slide to meet the deadline?
Seriously though, if you really want to preorder right now, you can do so through Amazon.com and get a $35 rebate too.
Well, AppleInsider has been pimping this for a while. Nobody else I've seen is citing build numbers unless they're quoting AppleInsider. Apple has messed with people before. I think either AI is getting bogus info from a source at Apple, or AI themselves is pranking.
But, April 1st is Apple's birthday, so it wouldn't be out of character for them to announce something big. Or prank AI, remember butt-head astronomer ?
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
My old 386 is still running Linux. Going on 14 years old.
Good luck with that.. ;-P
Will apple ever upgarde the name to mac OS 11? I know that apple OS X name is pretty much like microsoft windows, but hasn't there been enough upgrades to warrent the version name upgrade, or a better question would be how is it they even decided to upgrade the version name by 1?
If they are, then AppleInsider is in on it too.
Beware, Nugget is watching... See?
it's pretty much my favorite animal, bred for its magic skills.
**** THE PROOF THAT TIGER IS EVIL ****
T I G E R
84 73 71 69 82 - as ASCII values
3 1 8 6 1 - digits added
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/
3 1 8 6 1 - digits added
Thus, "TIGER" is 31861.
Subtract 97 from the number - this is the year Vesuvius erupted, written backwards. It gives 31764.
Add 0791 to it - this is the year IBM announced S/370, written backwards - you will get 32555.
Subtract 38, the symbol of slavery. The result will be 32517.
Add 1983, the year Microsoft introduced Windows 1.0 - the result is 34500.
Turn the number backwards, and add 1778 - the year Oliver Pollock invented '$', the symbol of exploitation, suffering and injustice. The number is now 2321.
This, when read backwards, gives 1232. This is 666 in octal, the number of the Beast...
Evil, QED.
( http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/evilfinder/ef.shtml )
Automator has to be one of the coolest things I've seen in a gui.. ever.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/automator.html
It looks like Apple has finally found an elegant way to make a GUI accomplish tasks like these faster than I could at a bash prompt.
"Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness." --Eric Blair
Duke Nukem Forever goes gold!!!
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Who knew Tiger would come out in the first half of 2005?
...come on, even my grandma knew for weeks, that tiger is comming out in april.
Duh!
You should use that thing, called the Internet, more often so maybe you would know what's going on in the world.
It's still March 31st in almost all of the USA so where does the April 1st joke come into play?
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Then maybe you should wait a year and a half again before you upgrade.
You paid $100 for an operating system that is already 2 versions old? I have some copies of Windows Me I'll sell you for $80.
That is, how far ahead is the time window in order to get a free OS replacement from the time of hardware purchase?
Eh!??! What gives? I just paid over A HUNDRED DOLLARS for Jaguar... and now, two weeks later, those sums of beaches are telling me that a new version is out??!!? That's not fair! I'm not paying another over A HUNDRED DOLLARS to get the next version, not two weeks after I got Jaguar!
Apple... what the heck did I expect? I knew I should have stayed with Win XP.
I call bullshit. This is an anti-Apple troll.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Fat Freddy's Cat OS. The more you say it, the better it sounds.
JOKE!
- what is the definition of simultanagnosia?! I've been meaning to look it up!
Or at least that's what some idiot in the press will say.
Those that invent and lead the industry tend to make the headlines, as opposed to the followers and imitators.
but from the information on that page there's no way to say.
So for the final release of an OS X variant, you think Apple will say screw it, and decide to call it... OX?
Dammit... The auction said it was the newest version, new in box, and all that good stuff. I bought it on ebay. As soon as I get home I'm gonna post here the ebay id of the jerk who sold it to me as "new in box"... The asshole didn't say it was two years old.
It looks like Apple is still stuck in 1.4-land for now but apparently Tiger is going to ship with 1.5. Can anyone confirm this? If so it's going to be a help to those of us with Java 1.5 applications.
One more thing... would you rather have a few more stories about Longhorn delays?
I wonder how much the Longhorn upgrade will cost... I bet it will be more than $100.
My other first post is car post.
Miserable troll. You bought JAGUAR? For a hundred dollars? Where exactly? eBay? If you are not a troll you are just plain dumb.
Panther is 10.3.
Jaguar was 10.2.
Tiger will be 10.4.
most important release of the year?
Don't forget the criminals!
The machine I'm typing this on had one significant upgrade since I got it in high school. (I finished grad school a few months ago.) That was my 300MHz to 750MHz CPU upgrade. Man, I was livin' large back then, telling myself I'd just get a doubled CPU speed every year and a half. That kinda stopped when I didn't have the spare cash, and hasn't started up since.
Well, and that 20GB hard drive I splurged on. My root partition is still on the original 2GB, though.
I'd like to have a few new things, like USB 2.0 (though I could just get a card for that) or Serial ATA so I never have to see a fucking ribbon cable again. I may not play World of Warcraft on it, but it does the same thing it did years ago---runs Opera, runs my little perl programs, and runs gaim. Old gaim.
Though, because PCs are so modular, you get into a "best axe I ever had, three new handles, five new blades" thing. If you upgrade the RAM, the video card, the CPU and the disks, it's not really the same machine that it was. I doubt I'll buy an entirely new machine in the foreseeable future. So you could consider $2000 in parts spent over six years to be the cost of keeping the machine stocked with quality upgrades. I think it all works out evenly.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
How about puma
I thought I told you to stop making up words!
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
I'm there.
I'm hoping it is the truly revolutionary pointing device i'm expecting and not just another mouse.
And if I have to upgrade again, how am I ever going to finish copying my 17M file?
Yes, Apple's Tiger 10.4 will contain Sun's Tiger 1.5.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=523
Hey, I think you're the first!
Yes, complaining about how good the April Fool's Slashdot posts were back in the day has become even more of a Slashdot tradition than the silly fake news itself.
So, you win "First Crotchety Old Post". Go you!
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
You think my last post was flamebait? You should have seen it before it was revised!
Perhaps you ought to visit outside of the US ... it's been April 1 here for the last 14 hours.
Does anyone know if JDK 1.5 will be shipped with Tiger, and if so will it be the the default JVM?
This is one of the few pieces of software I run on Linux development box that is currently not available for OS X (not counting developer seeds).
Troll, apple do release free patches for sercurty & stabity updates.
But thanks for playing, please now stop molesting the goats.
What makes you think there's going to be an OS XI? Perhaps it'll be like the X11R7, or TeX 3.2, or Linux 3.0... well, damn it, I'm sure there's a lot of software that stops making major version number changes.
Kinda like Intel had their 'Pentium' name that they kept milking through what, four significant processor generations?
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
you've been lost too long in the midnight sea oh what's becoming of me... ride the tiger you can see his stripes but you know he's mean oh can't you see what I mean? -ronnie james dio
I liked it better when nerds weren't cool.
10.3.9 after 10.4?
TIIIIIIIIIGER UPERCUT?
... 16 hours here. Not too long until April Fool's Day is over!
It's THE killer app... CounterStrike?
I liked it better when nerds weren't cool.
Actually you can pre-order Tiger right now through Amazon.com for $94.99 with their mail-in rebate.
Au contraire,
b ait but merely to describe the type of user whe're talking about here--
The number one question asked by 'the archetypical mini-buyer' - and of course the tons of other people that ask for a mini who sometimes have some similarity with this mythical person - is 'Will I get Tiger for free when I but my mini now?'
The archetypical mac-mini switcher (subset of a-mm-buyer) is not the complete computer-n00b we would all love to go out and buy a mac, only because then we might actually get to benchmarks the actual stand-by time of our mobile phones, that type of user still uses the windows pc they've had for years because they don't care about computers, don't read the articles about them in the press, skip conversations about computers in social events because they're biased to think they won't understand any of it anyway and are thereby still highly unaware of the other options out there besides using their windows 95 OSR 2 box with 16 megs of ram till death.
The typical switcher we get - I work in a big Apple Centre in the Netherlands - is the slightly geeky guy on a budget. The type that cares a bit above average about computers, never used Linux because they couldn't figure out how to install it in the amount of time they wanted to commit themselves to it and besides that just mature enough to be tempted by the idea that *it* might JustWork(TM)
-- above passage not intended as linux-is-too-difficult-for-'normal'-people-flame-
The second most important typical mini-buyer is the user that already has -at least one- mac, looking for an extra machine to fulfill some specific task(s) , or unable to resist the mac mini coolness factor and getting one while not having the faintest clue why they would need it, or to replace for instance a dying iMac they've been using as a file- and print-server on a budget or likewise
Besides that, all the linux-geeks I know either want one, already have one or don't need one since they've gotten themselves an iBook. but that's not such a large part of the people we get in our store.
All of those categories of customers actually care *a lot* about whether or not Tiger will be included with their minimac.
PS: I'm not in sales but in tech support, so I might miss a few of those potential customers..
(may read 'IMHO' wherever omitted from above text)
This is an april fools joke, isn't it?
garble
If I remember correctly, Apple intended to ship GCC 4.0 with Tiger. Currently the 4.0.0 branch of GCC is in phase 3 (the final phase before release). Is Tiger going to have a custom GCC build with some of the 4.0 features (some recent snapshot of the 4.0 branch) like SSA and auto-vectorization, or have they fallen back to the 3.4.x series?
I'll get a Mac when:
- It Ships With Tiger.
- It Ships With 10.n+1.
- I can afford one.
- I get tired of being a WinZombie.
- It Runs Windows.
- Command Taco Does.
- I have a Mac, you insensitive clod.
2 Things you don't let your marketing dept do if you can help it if you are a Fortune 500 company.
1) Guarantee your product intro will not be even the lead financial story of the day by introducing it the day the Dept of Labor releases monthly non-farm payrolls.
2) Introducing a product on April Fools day, a national holiday or 9/11.
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
apple do release free patches for sercurty & stabity updates
not a worldwide standard. china is 1 based for example.
...you Sir are reading slashdot?
/me thinks you have too much Karma.
Then again. Nice troll...
Smartass
Dumb Troll.
OS X Tiger will be the first OS to support JDK 1.6, which by the way will support .NET pcode natively. yet another reason to go with OS X!!!!
Sigh.
I'm currently typing this on a Pentium III @ 900 with 512 megs of ram and a 60 gig hard drive which is, hey, what do you know, SIX years old. Though I'm running Ubuntu at this instant, I was happily running Windows XP all day to run FrameMaker and Lotus Notes (along with Opera and Firefox) perfecly fine.
Look, I'm very fond of my Mac (and even older Blue and White G3), making silly statements isn't going to win any converts...
http://images.apple.com/macosx/tiger/images/automa torretouch_20050113.jpg
well, except for that kid and that retouch thing...
I'm basing some of this off of the fact I have seen zero Mac Mini commercials - most Mini buyers (in the eastern US anyway) probably heard about it by word of mouth (and internet) rather than a traditional media campaign - so they know at least a thing or two about OS X and what the releases mean.
YHBT dog. Jaguar is already a version behind.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Probably tomorrow.
-
Inventor of the term 'pardon my French'.
It's what I like and what I've wanted for a very long time.
Pardon my ignorance Sir but it works as advertized... you grep foo on zero, so of course I'd expect that to go for ever... and slow down the system... I think your linux needs a fix for that out of memory error.... or you need more memory.
ui... do not try this at home...
... Tiger build 8A428...
Think about this: if the build number is in hex (i.e. 0x8A428), this is the 566,312nd build of Tiger.
Now, about 18 months passed since the release of OSX 10.3. This means that Apple built OSX Tiger about 42 times per hour, without stop since Oct. 2003 (OSX 10.3 release time)!
You need to install an RTFM interface.
When Microsoft releases Windows for PowerPC.
Bullshit meaning that scenario could not happen? How exactly how could it not happen? You mean Apple has sold no hardware in the last two weeks so there is not a single person this would happen too? Were they preloading Tiger two weeks ago? Could you explain?
As much as I do not believe that actual specific poster myself, it deos happen. I remember the major PC vendors offering free upgrades from ME/2k to XP on new computers months before XP was released. It was no secret. Apple actively decides to hide or attempt to keep their updates a secret and there are people who get screwed for that exact reason. Is that a better way to treat a customer? Keep them in the dark so they might be fooled into buying something older? You can deny it or try to make excuses for it but bottom line, people are getting the shaft. Heck, Longhorn was announced well over a year ago (of course it keeps getting delayed but that is a different point).
SABERTOOTH!!!!!!!!
Hmm, I haven't seen any mini ads either, and I've only seen one or two iPod ads. Maybe I just don't watch the right shows/read the right magazines...
I have been pleasured to notice a sharp decline in Dell ads that have reached me, though. If that 'dude' guy or those dorky interns say one more think about Dell's superior service...
Moof.
That is exactly what I asked on the day they came out when I bought mine. The Apple person on the phone said Tiger would be free or $20.
In the same train of thought, here's more proof that Apple is evil ;)
A release posted to slashdot does not equal media coverage. Take a random poll on the street of who knows or heard about XP SP2 (just the SP, not even the entire OS) compared to who has heard of Tiger. I can even make it simpler for you. Ask 30 random people to name a single OS for an Apple computer and then ask them to name an OS for a PC.
Then rethink your headline and media coverage comment. It has NOTHING to do with someones opinion of invention and industry lead.
My comment is by no means an attempt to bash Apple or any company at all, just your silly comment.
Apple hipsters like these guys?
Just so you know, the reason Apple doesn't invest very much time or effort into Java is because there's zero demand for Java client applications on the Mac. And the reason there's zero demand for it is because Java applications that are ported to the Mac have so far been done very sloppily, resulting in a bad user experience all around.
If you want Java support for the Mac, do two things. First, sign up with ADC and express your opinion. Second, start writing good Java applications for the Mac.
Why is it that someone can dredge up a years-old script that works with any word, put TIGER into it, copy and paste the results and get a +5 funny?
Updated permissions, everything seems ok.
The typical switcher we get - I work in a big Apple Centre in the Netherlands - is the slightly geeky guy on a budget. The type that cares a bit above average about computers, never used Linux because they couldn't figure out how to install it in the amount of time they wanted to commit themselves to it and besides that just mature enough to be tempted by the idea that *it* might JustWork(TM)
/.), I'm about to switch. I want a machine that will allow my wife and I to use with sessions running simultaneously. I want mail and printing and scanning to work right. I want Bluetooth syncing to our phones and my wife's Tungsten to work. I want to be able to use my iPod, and my digital camera, and edit videos. I want it to all be integrated, and I want it to, yes, "just work".
You have a good view, but let me give you a data point. I'm a Linux sysadmin by day. My "server" at home runs Linux. My desktops at home run sort of Windows by necessity: one is for my wife, the other is my laptop that I need to use with a Centrino wireless card, and VPN for work. I know that I could "train" my wife to use Linux. I also know that I could get my finicky laptop to work. Point is, I don't want to. By the time I get home, I don't feel like it.
From reading (mostly on
I mess around with things enough at work and home. When I want to play, I have plenty of things to play with. But I want something that I don't have to think about unless I want to. I don't want to have to edit a single god damn configuration file to accomplish the above tasks. Is the Mac the right answer? I think it might be. But if it's not, that's okay. I can go back to the old way, and when I do, I'll sell the Mac for damn near what I paid for it.
I never thought I would be this way. But I've reached a time in my life where I have less patience and willingness to sacrifice free time. I also have lots more money. That's why I'm giving it a shot.
The typical switcher we get - I work in a big Apple Centre in the Netherlands - is the slightly geeky guy on a budget. The type that cares a bit above average about computers, never used Linux because they couldn't figure out how to install it in the amount of time they wanted to commit themselves to it and besides that just mature enough to be tempted by the idea that *it* might JustWork(TM)
sorry, you are wrong here! i *have* used linux (red hat, then mandrake, then suse, then debian) and stopped when I found OS X! I am stuck at home with win XP, because I just want word and thunderbird and firefox to work here anyways, but use OS X at the lab and am just waiting for an imac and os upgrade to get one for home.
I ordered a mini about 2 weeks ago, scheduled to arrive 3 weeks after I purchased it (i.e. next week of course). The big question is, will I have to pay for tiger? I'm guessing (hoping!) not.
.. Tiger build 8A428... Think about this: if the build number is in hex (i.e. 0x8A428), this is the 566,312nd build of Tiger. Now, about 18 months passed since the release of OSX 10.3. This means that Apple built OSX Tiger about 42 times per hour, without stop since Oct. 2003 (OSX 10.3 release time)!
8A428
You're mistaken. NeXT always had it's own windowing system which was based on Display Postscript (DPS). It was NOT based on the X Window System.
...
from Wikipedia
"The developers of NeXT wrote a completely new windowing engine to take full advantage of NeXT's object oriented operating system. A number of commands were added to DPS to actually create the windows and to react to events, similar to but simpler than NeWS..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_PostScript
the macintosh asterisk mailing list http://www.astm
If you purchased a computer within 14 days of the anouncement of release you are entitled to a $20 upgrade. This is how Apple has done it in the past.As far as buying Panther on its own there is no upgrade.
It's GREEEEEEAAAT!
"...And I said, I don't care if they update again either, because I told, I told Jobs that if they update one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Ballmer too, because they've updated my SP two times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were married, but then, they switched from the Jaguar to the Panther release, but I bought my Jaguar release because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the disc for the Jaguar release and it's not okay because if they update to 10.4 Tiger then I'll set the building on fire..."
(With apologies to the fine people who wrote, produced and directed Office Space)
Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
Can someone else dredge up this script and post the link? There are many other things I would like to prove are evil, but I don't want to do that much work.
In addition to AppleInsider's reports, there have been developers on several different Mac discussion forums talking about these builds, and the things they say always line up with what AppleInsider is saying. I have to believe that AppleInsider is getting their information from developer's who actually have the seeds. Granted, I haven't heard anything about this very latest (gold master) build, but there was plenty of talk about the previous one (final candidate). I'm sure there are developers talking about this latest one too, it's just that I haven't been on any of the Mac forums since this news broke.
Have you ever seen what happens when you put a tiger and a longhorn steer in the same room?
Now THAT'S funny
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Mac OS why?
-jsl
Dyslectics of the world, untie!
if you have been here for 5 years and thought that they have slipped just recently, then I think you need to pay more attention.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
"or unable to resist the mac mini coolness factor and getting one while not having the faintest clue why they would need it" This probably describes 99% of purchases ever made. :)
Why does your software have a handedness? Doesn't that make it incompatible with half of the potential computers in the universe? And what's the chirality of my laptop anyway?
> Just so you know, the reason Apple doesn't invest
> very much time or effort into Java is because
> there's zero demand for Java client applications
> on the Mac. And the reason there's zero demand
> for it is because Java applications that are
> ported to the Mac have so far been done very
> sloppily, resulting in a bad user experience all
> around.
You obviously have no clue - for a start you don't have to 'port' Java applications to OS X - they run as is, also your post has absolutely nothing to do with the post you are replying to - the parent doesn't mention anything about how much effort Apple puts into java.
IMO Apple has put an admirable amount of effort in Java and has really taken a gamble with making a first-class citizen on OS X. They've licensed Sun's JVM and made most of the Cocoa APIs available to Java apps. They also ship JBoss with OS X Server - a competing product to Web Objects - their enterprise application solution, which they've also port to Java. I'd say they're pretty committed.
Those are all great, but to me, I want to know if Tiger has another "new feature": Does it make my computer feel faster?
Pretty much every previous release of MacOS X has brought speed improvements, and I want to know if Tiger will continue that tradition. Not all of us can afford G5s at the moment, and a speed increase would really make it shelling out another 80 bucks or so (.edu discount) worth it.
'I am become Shiva, destroyer of worlds'
It is developers who think that Java applications run as-is who are responsible for the shitty java applications on OS X today.
It takes a handful of lines to switch to the mac menu bar (instead of window-mounted menus), but nobody does it. Java apps which 'run' on the mac are often not even tested to see how they behave.
I would never advertise my mac client software as 'java software', because users now consider that a badge of warning. If it is a good mac app, the fact that it has java code in it shouldn't even cross the user's mind.
Wow, you are the king of run-on sentences. Only one of your paragraphs is composed of more than one sentence. You have a single sentence with 119 words.
It even looks like you're going for run-on words also, which I've only seen rarely.
Outstanding work!
(I know, you're not a native English speaker. I forgive you.)
1993 called. They want their FUD back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT
Back in the day, you needed some seriously expensive beefy (and sometimes exotic) hardware to do anything meaningful with Windows NT on PPC.
If I recall correctly, the Xbox2 development platform runs an NT derivative on 970.
There are 1.1... kinds of people.
I couldn't have said it better. Although I think it's worth making clear that what you said about the menu bar is just one example of how developers can piss off users by assuming that Java applications should be run unmodified on the Mac.
Drag and drop is a vital part of the Macintosh user interface. Java developers often neglect to implement it. Same with packaging and application metadata, application services, even the dock menu. Java developers often -- I'll go so far as to say "almost always" --completely ignore these important parts of the Mac operating environment, either blithely unaware of them or under the sadly mistake impression that users just won't miss them.
Like I said, if developers want Apple to give a shit about Java, they're going to need to start giving a shit about Apple.
I'll be putting up some screenshots of my app in the next couple of weeks. If I can find someone who has OS 10.4 I'll even put up some Mac screenshots. I'm very curious to see if Mac users will think of it as a Mac desktop app; I would take that as a compliment, of course.
From what I can tell, there are two things holding Java back from desktop apps. First is that Swing itself is hard to use and cumbersome. It is too powerful and not intuitive enough to program in. Yes it has some great features but there should be simpler, more direct ways of doing common things. Second, Java is closed source. This is a problem because we need forks of the JRE. We need a Qt fork, which does all the rendering in Qt. We need a GTK fork, a Mac fork, etc. These would all have the same language and run the same software but they would use native rendering, which is the only way you're going to get real native LnF, which is the only way you're going to get people to think of Java apps as "just like any other app".
> so I never have to see a fucking ribbon cable again
Why do kids hate ribbon cables so much? My eight year-old keeps pulling the ones out of my case and his friends make bad jokes about them. They work well and have for decades.
It's just like with case screws. My 13 year-old son whines because he has a case that requires removing two screws to open. Why is that such a problem?
Sigh, kids today are too lazy to plug-in a ribbon cable or use a screwdriver.
...when OS X 10.4.1 goes gold!
You must think in Russian.
By the way, the Mac Mini was the most brilliant move Apple has done to get more developers to experiment with the Mac. Hmm, let's see, it costs $600 (out the door), it uses all my existing peripherals, it takes up negligible space on my desk... I'll take one! I'll probably buy one just so that I can make sure that this new educational learning application runs smoothly on OS X 10.4. This Mac Mini could result in a lot more Mac software.
I felt kinda good...and dirty...at the same time
:)
Bullshit meaning that scenario could not happen?
Yes. Exactly. Current machines have (for *quite* some time) shipped with Panther. The poster to whom you extend your misplaced support talks about just having purchased *Jaguar* at that high price? They're either trolling or incredibly stupid. You just didn't spot it.
I, for one, will purchase a retail copy of our new felinoid overlords...
Student ADC memberships ARE for free. They don't include a free copy of MacOS X though =)
haha, after re-reading my post I can't imagine other people going through thát amount of trouble to read it.. :-)
;-)
just skipped a night and yes, exactly, I'm no native speaker, how'd you guess?
(may read 'IMHO' wherever omitted from above text)
While I've not seen a huge number of Java apps on the Mac, I think Apple likes to keep up support because it offers a more mainstream alternative to Objective C for those that like to dabble.
Plus while there may not be a huge number of consumer apps, there are a lot of little Java applications all over, things like Puzzle Pirates or enterprise apps.
So while it will help for more people to write mac Java apps, a think it has a strong foundation of support.
Myself, I am really looking forward to both tigers quite a bit!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you bothered to go to the AppleInsider link you would have noticed the article was posted:
"Thursday, March 31, 2005"
Never mind April... you're just the vanilla fool.
The natives are easily amused by baubles and glass beads, it seems.
Hear hear!
/. "Hack 'cause you want, not 'cause you have to." Hacking actually becomes fun again. And surely that's something quite hard to put a price on?
:)
I was in a vaguely similar boat, though I can't ever claim to have been a Linux sysadmin - certainly not outside the home anyway. All our machines at home were Windows XP, mostly self-built, and we had Linux for NAT, etc. But all the machines were a constant hassle. The only thing I can be thankful for is that this was before spyware and its ilk got really big, so I never had to deal with much of that.
Anyway, I got an iBook in 2002, after playing around on a very sexy PowerMac G4 server (it had 1.25GB RAM, which was not unimpressive at the time). Looking back now, it was quite crude - Internet Explorer for the web browser, no X11, no Quartz Extreme - but I still switched, and haven't looked back.
Granted, it's a little weird if you're coming from a Linux-centric background - each UNIX has its own ways of doing things and Darwin is no different in this respect - but you can still get down to the nitty-gritty and write your own ipfw configuration if it floats your boat. And, though Fink seems slightly stagnated of late, running KDE on your Mac is just plain cool (from a "because you can" point of view, anyway).
Keep an open mind - I know a friend of mine was a little upset at first because he couldn't start Apache with apachectl start. I was a little terse with him in reply, pointing out that Apple, champion of the GUI, could hardly expect a horde of headstrong OS9 GUI diehards to open up a Terminal to start a web server. Once I pointed him towards the Sharing tab, all was fine.
The wireless implementation is unparalleled. Having taken my first steps in the WiFi world on a Mac, it pains me to use Windows' or Linux efforts (the latter I am having particular trouble with at home). Bluetooth is beautiful - you will, I am sure, find BluePhoneElite and Salling Clicker amusing if not essential toys. iPhoto is really, really nice; iMovie HD is just totally cool...
You almost take it for granted in fact. I installed iTunes on a friend's Windows XP machine the other day, and she was almost bowled over (she has rather poor balance) by the simplicity of iTunes. I now think of it as nothing special, but to someone who has suffered under WiMP for so long, it is truly refreshing.
In the end, all the machines at home now are Macs, save for one Linux server which still does NAT, mostly for my amusement so that I can continue to hack when I want. But I really think you hit the nail on the head with this...
I mess around with things enough at work and home. When I want to play, I have plenty of things to play with. But I want something that I don't have to think about unless I want to. I don't want to have to edit a single god damn configuration file to accomplish the above tasks.
I think I can sum it up succinctly with a line that is sure to appeal to at least the more mature and competent (i.e. less l33t t33n h4x0r) type that reads
iqu
If your friend couldn't start apache on OS X with apachectl start, he was doing something wrong, most likely not being root.
And the reason there's zero demand for it is because Java applications that are ported to the Mac have so far been done very sloppily, resulting in a bad user experience all around.
Oh, what fun. On the one hand, we have vociferous Java WORA advocates, who claim that no platform adaptation is needed, and on the other hand, we have vociferous Mac advocates, who complain if applications don't look exactly the way they are used to. Please, do let the fun begin and slug it out.
What's particularly fun about this is that Java hackers are probably some of Apple's most loyal customers, and that Apple desparately needs a successor to Objective-C and all they got is Java. This will be interesting to watch.
It is developers who think that Java applications run as-is who are responsible for the shitty java applications on OS X today.
They think that because that's Sun's party line.
Java apps which 'run' on the mac are often not even tested to see how they behave.
Of course not. Java is WORA. You shouldn't have to test on more than one machine.
I am ADC Student and received copies of Panther. I received 10.3.0, and I received 10.3.6(or something around there) when they refreshed the version they shipped. I'm expecting to see 10.4.0 come in the mail as well.
Beware, Nugget is watching... See?
And I just reread your comment. The Student ADC memberships are *not* free. ADC Student costs $99/yr and includes a one-time ADC hardware discount as well.
Beware, Nugget is watching... See?
Hmmm, then what is the free ADC membership called? I know I got one for free...
Besides that, all the linux-geeks I know either want one, already have one or don't need one since they've gotten themselves an iBook. but that's not such a large part of the people we get in our store.
I am a Linux geek. I have an iBook (one of the new 12" G4s, bought just before they came out - thanks to the Apple store for automatically upgrading my order). I want a Mac mini so I can retire my Lintel box to be an oversized, loud gaming console. A dualboot setup lets me choose whether I want to be able to keep in touch with the rest of the world (as I don't want my emails spread out over two OSes) or be able to just fire up a game and have some fun - but it doesn't allow both, as I dislike Windows enough to not want do do anything except playing games on it.
The iBook is nice, but as my demands for desktops are radically different from those for a notebook it's not an option as a replacement desktop.
The Mini, especially as it now comes with Tiger, fits my needs just fine. Now I just need to get my hands on a few hundred bucks...
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Um...root is disabled by default on OSX. He likely didn't use sudo. Even though he no doubt was logged in as an admin user, sudo is still needed. This fooled a CS teacher at my school, who has started switching from Sun and SGI to Macs.
I drank what? -- Socrates
this guy is trolling.
Panther was the previous version of osX not Jaguar.
Jaguar hasn't been for sale for 'ages' now.
BTW: If you don't like an OS that actually shows improvement almost every year, you should stick with XP.
Awesome! I have been following the Tiger news recently, and placed my order for a PowerBook on March 30th. Since at that time the speculation was for the end of April... Maybe later.
So if you must know, I'm responsible for the timely release. I finally saved up enough, dropped the cash, and now that my PowerBook is in the air on its was from China, Tiger goes gold...
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway" -Andrew Tanenbaum
I'll also add to that line of people waiting for Tiger to get their Mini - and to fall into that 'slightly geeky on a budget' category. Enough that I still spend 80% of my working day in vi!
Not quite in the market for a full system upgrade, plus I'm the sort of person who buys their Hi-fi in components - I like the ability to upgrade my display without throwing the whole computer out - and vice versa. I'd actually pay for a headless G5 over a mini, even if it was the size of a pizzabox - I'm just not prepared to buy an all in one unit.
I think what you will get is a second generation of switchers once they've seen the first in use.
For instance, my wife knew what an iPod was (and had an MP3 player when they first came out), but wanted and bought an iPod after I got mine. I would wager now (if I wasn't an Anonymous Coward) that her next laptop will be an iBook once she's played with the Mini.
And to concur with a couple of posters above - I bought MS Office for my wife, as I was spending too much time coming home and supporting OpenOffice document compatibility issues - I have better things to be doing with my time. (Still peanuts compared to the nightly crashes and tri-monthly re-installation of Windows - although to be fair, we have another machine that is rock-solid, and Apple chuck out some duds too).
Firefox, on the other hand, has been a hit with everyone I've forced it on, and I've not had to explain the philosophy of open source to any of them.
Given the number of people who pirate their software, it's all 'free' anyway.
'It's the software, stupid' - and that's what will sell the Mini.
Cunning if Jobs wants to short his own stock. I'm sorry, did you just say "mine slasdot for good ideas?"
I know it's only 8:00, but that'll probably be the funniest thing I hear all day.
I had 3 linux computers and 1 windows 2000 machine. As of today I have 3 computers, one is my PowerMac Dual G5 2.0ghz, another is my iBook G3 700mhz dual booting between OS X and Ubuntu, and the newest addition is my Mac mini. My Mac mini is running Ubuntua 5.04 on it. I still have a need for a Linux desktop (I think). I probably could have done without it, but its just too cool of a little computer. Like you said, if I find I don't really have a need for it, I'll put it on Ebay and almost recoup my costs.
Only in Japan, where, by convention, ages are counted from 1; i.e., a new-born baby is considered to be of age 1.
How long does it usually take for brand new Macs to have the new OS as a first-class installable CD, without the inconvenience of having to install the previous OS and upgrade it? Once 10.4 appears in shops, are all new Macs guaranteed to come with first-class standalone 10.4 CD/DVDs, or does it depend on clearing out the backlog of machines with 10.3 and 10.4 upgrade discs?
I think his overall point is still stands though-- these days, most Mac people buying Macintoshes are either long-time Apple users (who tend to follow Apple's moves fairly closely) or computer-geek-types who are [at least] moderately knowledgable. The computer-illiterates and know-nothings (the sort who wouldn't pay any attention to OS upgrades) think of Windows as the default, and so that's what they buy and that's what they use. Or at least that's a harsh but semi-accurate generalization.
Bluetooth is beautiful - you will, I am sure, find BluePhoneElite and Salling Clicker amusing if not essential toys.
Thanks for the links. I was looking through some of the features of those tools. Doesn't OS X have some of the same features? I know that caller ID popup when a call comes in was built-in. I also heard once that "proximity monitoring" was built in, but I never confirmed that. Do you know? That was one of the big selling points for my wife: that her phone will be synced without her even taking it out of her purse.
I installed iTunes on a friend's Windows XP machine the other day, and she was almost bowled over (she has rather poor balance) by the simplicity of iTunes.
I had this exact experience 2 days ago. My friend and I heard this funny/stupid song at a bar last weekend. I had iTunes installed on my laptop already, but had never used the store, or the burn feature. I wanted to get this song and put it on a CD for humor's sake, but we were leaving soon and I was afraid I wouldn't have time. I already set up my account (5 free songs with PayPal sign up). Once I found the song, I think it was 5 clicks before I had it burned on a CD. Maybe this is possible with other software, I don't know. But I was impressed, and it makes me think there are more good things to come.
Whoops! You just got unknowingly bamboozled by a stupid Apple employee. Apple is notorious for not telling their employees (those not DIRECTLY working on a particular product) anything before an official announcement. They love secrecy, and employees are the biggest source of leaks. Thus you have people extremely low on the food chain like Apple Store workers who think they know something (they don't, they just read the rumor sites like everyone else) and want to sound all helpful and smart. Unfortunately you fell victim to this.
History shows that Apple has only ever given a free/cheap upgrade to people who bought on or after the day they announced the exact release date. That means if you bought before they announce Tiger's release date, you're out of luck.
The common myth that floats around is either 30 days or 60 days, but history shows that it's completely false. Last time they announced Panther's release date 2 weeks ahead of time, and that 2 weeks was the only time in which you could get the cheap upgrade. Some people managed to stretch it a little by lying about their purchase date, but don't count on it.
The moral of the story: if you are concerned about this (if you really really don't want to pay full price for Tiger), wait until AFTER Apple says something in an official announcement. Don't trust what a single employee tells you, especially one at the Apple Store. Unless that employee's last name is Jobs, you're probably only getting a guess. And if it's based on the common myth, it's probably false.
I want a machine that will allow my wife and I to use with sessions running simultaneously. I want mail and printing and scanning to work right. I want Bluetooth syncing to our phones and my wife's Tungsten to work. I want to be able to use my iPod, and my digital camera, and edit videos. I want it to all be integrated, and I want it to, yes, "just work".
I think a Mac is ideal for you and your wife. The transition takes a while, and no OS X is not perfect, but considering the alternatives, its better than all of them, especially for what you want to use it for.
I mess around with things enough at work and home. When I want to play, I have plenty of things to play with. But I want something that I don't have to think about unless I want to.
Me too. I'll warn you, my job satisfaction level has gone done since switching to a Mac for my personal machine at work. You ask yourself, "Why in 2005 am I still having to do XYZ to get PDQ done?"
Have fun.
Kzin are fast, powerful, honorable, intelligent... and a little paranoid. Not a bad match for an Apple fanboy...
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Either he's a troll or he's really stupid; you can buy Jaguar for $18.
It's called an online membership.
`sudo apachectl start`
You would be violating your licensing agreement by doing what you suggest.
At least Apple understand about people with multiple machines and offers a family pack option for home use which saves a lot of money on licenses.
I switched..sort-of.
I love my unix. I love my Windows, too. I run several WIndows servers, FreeBSD machines, Solaris machines and Compaq Tru64. I've done the lot.
As a desktop, my PowerBook G4 15" 1.5Ghz fits the bill perfectly. I love it. It's a computer that's fun to use - I can access the unix stuff when I need it and I can tuck it away when I've simply had too much and just want to use my PC, without spending ten hours to set up (hello Debian users). Sometimes us geeky types like to use a computer to do other stuff other than tinker. The Mac is brilliant at that.
That said, if I want real Linux, dual boot is there and PPC arch handles it gracefully.
My gripes lie with iPhoto - it won't support the Canon 1Ds Mk II camera nor will it support the CR2 raw format that's been available from the 20D and the 1Ds II for several months prior to iPhoto 5's release. iPhoto won't support the Nikon D1X or the D2x for that matter, so it's a major hit for pro photographers. iPhoto can do wonderful things with my raw shots from the 10D however.
iMovie HD is kinda cool, but I've yet to get my hands on an HD camcorder to give it a test-run.
I still have a Dell P4 mobile 2Ghz notebook that I use for my imaging and gaming purely because the support exists. The Mac is not the holy grail, although it's a good fit for most people. Tiger and the Mac Mini would be the perfect suggestion for any unix geek to pick up an alternate architecture though.
I never thought I would be this way
Welcome to the slashdot-burnt-out-geek-swicher's club.
You will be more then happy.
I find I'm not fucking with the machines in the house nearly as much. Not because I have to (got enough of that at work). Now it's because I want to. I didn't buy a mini, it didn't exist back then. We bought a refurb iBook for the family (I got a 15" Powerbook).
Been very happy with it ever since.
http://slashdot.org/~tf23/journal
Like I said, if developers want Apple to give a shit about Java, they're going to need to start giving a shit about Apple.
.02.
I couldn't think of a more flawed statement. For the last 10 years developers have been hounding Apple to give them support that made them contenders. WWDC 1996 "Apple is going to be the #1 Java development platform..." followed by the slowest deployments and poor implementations. Apple blamed Sun, but the reality was the group was understaffed (not to mention staffed with newbs - I was recruited for the 1.2 port.)
In 1997 my company stopped using Mac as a development platform because we needed current JDK and working JDBC support.
Being in the sci-tech and engineering field, the biggest complaint since 1991 has been the lack of tools running on Macs. Java gave Apple an opportunity REGARDLESS of UI because sci-tech Java apps supposedly run anywhere, and its not a matter of reimplementing the application, as you Swing LAF is swappable (if you do it the way you're supposed to.) Making an argument that Apple users won't use software that isn't Mac-like is bunk when its the functionality thats important.
So, as I guy who hounded Apple for 10 years before giving up, I can honestly say that giving a shit about Apple and asking for current support and bug fixes did absolutely nothing.
And this whole "build it Mac-like and they'll come" is bullshit. Even Apple doesn't follow the once sacred UI guidelines anymore (think of the metal iWhatever interface.) This cliquey religious mentality is exactly the reason why Apple lost so much ground in sci-tech. Evangelism decided they'd only support "killer apps", and unfortunately in many verticals, there isn't such a thing. Why do I give a hoot about dnd support in an image processing app or a spreadsheet?
My
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
I have a feeling the pending availability of Windows 64 has more to do with the decision to go gold with Tiger.
After all the (arguable) hype Apple made of the PowerMac G5 being the first 64-bit desktop computer, I'm sure Apple would like to claim Tiger is the first mainstream 64-bit OS.
I couldn't agree more. I actually had a conversation with a customer over the phone this week while we were rebooting his Winxp box to see if a reg hack worked (He was having word 2003 issues) and he asks me what I use at home.
I paused because it seemed rather awkward at the moment but I finally replied:
"I use a Mac."
And he seemed rather surprised as I was awkward because we are a major Microsoft software support group and to them we seem to do amazing things to get our clients machines back up and running (reg hacks, spyware removal, getting Outlook and Word to function correctly and Winxp tcp/ip stacks to work again).
"Why?" was exactly his answer and then there was silence.
I thought for a bit and then replied "I don't want to take my work home with me."
He chuckled at that and I elaborated "Just because I can fix anything on a Windows computer doesn't mean I want to spend the time fixing it on my own."
That and I noticed ever since I've got an Xbox (and later a DS) is that I don't use the PC's that I do have. If I need to do constructive things like Word, Excel, Email (Thunderbird), Surf (Firefox), Photoshop, IM then I always use the Mac.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
It was beyond "major". Most of it was replaced.
Programs that actually followed the guidelines still worked. Others (Early Macwrite, Word 3 and down, *all* viruses, most system utilities) were ended.
I was a developer at the time, and used both the alpha and beta releases. The alpha release was significantly more stable than the Windows 3.1 and 95 families.
hawk
Wienee. ;-)
Sorry but if you said 4% maybe 5% I'd agree, but >10% mac use is nothing but a fantasy. I've done plently of home and office computer work over the years and Macs don't come anywhere near to being in 1 out of every 10 households. That's not me being anti-apple or anything that's just what I've seen from an IT and non-IT standpoint. In fact among my family, friends, and my wife's friends and family I can't think of any who own a Mac.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
I live outside of boston.
My friends are scientists, engineers, writers, etc.
Thus some (the non-techies) have been mac users for a long time.
The majority of the geeks have migrated from BSD and Linux to Macos X.
All told, my immediate environment is about 50% mac, and a few of us have been working with computers for 10-20 years but never owned a Microsoft box.
Perhaps 5% is a more realistic estimate.
you can right-click or ctrl-click on the "comment" field for slashdot submissions and tick "Spelling -> Check Spelling as you Type"
I have been using Macs since 1992 and Apple machines since 1983. I switched to OS X near the end of the Jaguar epoch, not quite believing that it would be fast on my 1998 PCI graphics G4 (it was). I'd read about spellchecking in text fields for Carbon-based apps but figured something was wrong with my install.
Your clear instructions have changed everything for me. My brain is built to spell (literary type), but I need the red dots to draw my attention to on-screen errors which are harder for me to notice than print errors.
So, thank you, sir. This absolutely rocks!
blog
On a related note, is it possible to let a particular application have root permissions? Sometimes I like to edit system files with a GUI editor, and this always causes problems (when I need to write out my changes).
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
God I hate that ad.
i forget
I'm not aware that the Caller ID thing is built-in, but then, I'm not that familiar with Bluetooth - it's my brother's setup that has the Bluetooth phone and adapter, and whilst I've played with it a bit, I was under the impression that you had to install something for CID to work. Proximity monitoring - for the screensaver and such - likewise. But then I don't really know.
:)
iqu
The aforementioned friend is the kind of guy that would make that sort of mistake - he has a little knowledge, but not a lot. Doubtless the need to be root (by whatever means) to start Apache escaped him - and why it didn't then work.
:)
iqu
This feature was added to NeXT STEP in 1990! Microsoft Windows was at version 3.0 at the time.
s
http://www.aci.com.pl/mwichary/guidebook/timeline
Sine OS X is really OpenStep in Mac OS X clothing, all Cocoa applications get on the fly spell check for free.
Apple's site says that the Address Book application will do CID. Linky: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=517 80
You're probably right about the proximity syncing...
...so where's the announcement???
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
12106917GET
You won't need to worry about update CD's or paying for upgrades to your OS ever again.
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar