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Opera 8 Released
bonch writes "After a series of beta releases, Opera 8 final has now been released. Read the announcement complete with download links. The new Opera sports a streamlined interface and several rendering improvements."
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Opera 8?!? Blimey, I though the Ring Cycle went on too long, and there are only half as many as that.
The question every firefox user is asking: Does it render slashdot correctly?
...how relevant is Opera really? The big news, of course, is Firefox. The last time I tried Opera (version 5), I was seriously disappointed, and it had all those annoying ads at the top. Why would anyone use this when they can get free browsers that are as good as, or better, without the adware? Plus, any features that Opera would have that might distinguish it (mouse gestures, I believe) very few people use.
DBA? Software Engineer? My company is hiring! Click
release date on the dmg download for the Mac is April 18.
Two comments:
1. It is very fast.
2. Keychain integration, so all the web site passwords from your other keychain-enabled browsers (firefox, safari, etc.) on your Mac will be remembered.
http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
Here are the links to the Opera web site and downloads.
screen shots here
-dave
http://millionnumbers.com/ - own the number of your dreams
In all honesty, for the past 3-4 weeks firefox has been rendering slash properly for me.
v1.0.2
Anyone else out there, or am I just lucky?
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Opera 8 works really well. I haven't had any issues so far. The speed seems on par with Firefox.
One impressive point is that Opera stays up on their security patches. Version 7.0 only had 35 issues since 2002 and they were all patched relatively quickly.
The linky got me a proxy error, so here are some others.
...and what is up with OperaMan?
Product page with download links etc.
The Register
The Google
This Like That - fun with words!
I know that Firefox is all the rage these days, but Opera has a pretty faithful user base....or did I miss a slash-think programming update, the one where we're supposed to badmouth and laugh at Opera?
News for nerds, editors opinions that don't matter
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is actually the first Opera version to work on my machine since i tried Opera 5 or something, and i'm all in love now... It's fast, safe and the rendering is nice... Great release..
Bits of News Giving you the latest bits.
That's great that they keep the Mac version in sync with the windows version, but the poor OS/2 version is still stuck at 5.12 :(
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It can't compare with Firefox - especially now that FF has momentum behind it. Hopefully the Opera voice stuff will take off.
You break all the laws of physics and you seriously think there wouldn't be a price?
After all the bluster from the leader at Opera about making the next generation of IE do the last standards correctly. I would think that his next product would pass the test? Yes/NO...anyone who owns Opera 8 please report if ACID2 passes on Opera8.
http://www.webstandards.org/act/acid2/
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
(This is a partial repost from my own blog entry on Opera 8
Opera is giving away free licenses to people who help spread Opera. That's right, you can get a free license for an ad-free Opera, provided you do the following:
[1] It's actually getting them to visit my.opera.com, but: People should really, really try Opera 8. It's quite brilliant, and in many ways sets the standard for what a web browser should and should not do.
http://virtuelvis.com/
... in fact I was an Opera fanboy. There are still features i like in it that i'm not sure have been emulated using firefox extentions, such as the zoom, fastforward and changing styles on the fly. Even the mousegestures, to me, seem more polished. But... They've taken a pretty firm stance against including an adblock feature (nevermind that they were the first browser with popup blocking, i believe). There is filter.ini, but it's not the same. It's hidden, and you can't block an image with a simple rightclick. It accepts wildcards, but i don't think it accepts regular expressions. For me blocking ads is more important than the rest of those nice features. I don't care if that makes me a "thief" or whatever. I understand them taking the stance they do, afterall, they DO serve their own ads. But, as long as they don't have a good blocker, i won't be using their browser.
I can't get to the page, but I think this is the first browswer with a svg (Scalable vector graphics) renderer. If so, this could be quite the interesting release...
AHA! So it's YOUR box all the spam and viruses is coming from! ;D
Nicolas Mendoza
Prepare for MSIE 7
Mmmm, that's a steaming pile of Opera...
/.! :-/
Seriously, I can't get anything more than a headline or two. What an excellent release, thanks
(\(\
(^v^)
(")")
This is the cute vorpal bunny virus, copy to your sig or runaway, runaway in fear!
Opera is back again with a great browser. It's very fast. I've been developing a webpage that's very heavy on javascript and Opera 8 is very fast for that.
Also the implemention of SVG is pretty cool. It's not very good. Rendering is sometimes a bit weird and SVG objects are not scriptable.
DNA is the ultimate spaghetti code.
Apparently being pro-Firefox involves being anti-everything else. There's no need for all the antagonism and martyrdom.
The main thing about Firefox that bugs me is the plugins. Features such as tabbed browsing, and mouse gestures come standard with Opera, where with Firefox (at least when I tried it), you're required to track down and choose what plugin you want. These appear to be third-party plugins. God knows what code's in them, or if they'll break if you update Firefox.
My second main complaint with Firefox is the horrendously huge Thunderbird. Again, Opera has it's own built-in mail client.
The things that keep me using Opera are:
That's about all I can think of right now. These things, to me anyway, make it worth the purchase price.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
website flatlined.
Thanks, slashdot!
GET FREE APPLE STUFF!
I always test my sites with Opera, Firefox and IE.
The good thing about Opera is that it is fast. Its Javascript implementation, for example, is vastly faster than IE or FF.
The bad thing about Opera is that it has bugs. It probably has less bugs than FF or IE, but it does have them, and they are different from the FF and IE ones. As a "real world" web developer you're going to put some effort into avoiding the IE bugs, and probably the FF bugs too, but are you really going to work around Opera bugs? The problem is that 20 lines of standards-compliant code mushrooms to 200 lines that do less when you want it to work on three different browsers. That's unmaintainable.
Also, while workarounds for IE bugs are normally only a google away (often at dean.edwards.name/IE7/) and for FF bugs a bugzilla search finds the answer, for Opera you normally have to work out what's gone wrong from scratch. (www.quirksmode.org/bugreports/ is one place you can look.)
The result is that Opera users see more messed up pages than FF or IE users. Their reaction is normally to accuse the site of "not being standards compliant" - wrongly.
So my message to Opera is: fix those bugs! (Starting with all the ones listed at Quirksmode.) And my message to users is: please use Firefox as well as Opera.
Opera 8 is supported by gmail now, too.
I still wouldn't discount Opera. It has a strong presence on all platforms, and that's important as it provides a single, interface across all platforms, and this will become important as workplaces and homes, too, become more cross-platform.
The rise in Firefox usage has three major reasons:
1. security reasons
2. Seamonkey's perceived bloat
3. trend
Security is never a guarantee. Trends don't last. And Seamonkey, especially 1.8x, is as fast as Firefox, while providing more.
Opera, like Seamonkey, has a strong core userbase, that have been using that product for a long time. I do see however, Safari trumping Firefox, if Longhorn fails to deliver, and with the continued strong showing from Apple with the OS X products.
Not a good image for the product, if he needs hitchhiking.
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
But we are not talking Microsoft here, who make a minor change and then sell it for megabucks.
Opera 6 was very different to Opera 5. Opera 7 was very different again. And the minor releases weren't just bug fixes - they often introduced new features.
There isn't really much of a difference between Opera and Firefox, especially when you use the plugins with Firefox. But Opera had a lot of these first. Most users of Opera are old users, using it since before Mozilla and Firefox.
I like Opera. It does everything that I want it to do. One the rare occasion when someone write a page specifically for IE (and they are become more rare now!), I still have IE. I also have Firefox installed so that I can use it from time to time.
But a browser is a browser - I can see the web pages I want to see using anything. I'm used to Opera, so I'll continue to use it. I know the shortcut keys for it. I know where certain preferences are located, should I need to change them.
It's a good product, and is well written. OK, I paid for it, but only because I thought it was worth paying for - I even bought a Linux licence, although I rarely use it on Linux (I rarely use Linux itself, unfortunately).
Before you can start saying that a product isn't worth trying or using, you need to try it out. Opera 5 and Opera 8 are not comparable, so try out Opera 8 (you can do it for free) and see what you think.
I won't have a problem if you prefer Firefox, but it would be nice to know that you actually tried the product.
T.
I read a lot of comments here about comparisons between firefox and opera, and why one is better than the other and so on. Some of the comments then discuss the sizes of the businesses ,and how viable they are, and so on.
Please, don't forget that the desktop user experience is only _one_ dimension to the problem - remember that Opera aims its business at the embedded/mobile market by producing a light and fast browser. Don't forget that supporting embedded and mobile devices is more than just "porting to a new platform", so if Opera is well engineered from the bottom up to support this area, then it's leagues ahead of Firefox in that game.
There are many, many, many other markets for webbrowsers other than your desktop - phones, kiosks, consumer products, set top boxes, etc, etc, etc. This is a pretty big market, and probably has a greater revenue stream. Sure, firefox may quote user/download statistics: but just how many of them have resulted in cash back into the business? In addition, remember that someone like Opera may not be able to quote (or even know) its total user base because of commercial confidentiality issues.
If you're a business looking to integrate web browser, I think the nit-picky user issues may be traded off against cost and technical issues, and that's where Opera may have an advantage over Firefox (and over IE/CE).
Opera's press release. Google cache.
Here is an easier way to get Opera 8 for free (legally)....
Go here and enter code OJD000MN
(I just checked and the site is slow so it may be slashdotted, but just try back later - I just tried it and it works)
You have to use a real email address because they will send you a registration code to use for Opera 8. It will register it as the full ad-free version. Enjoy!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Oh, I was completely joking.
I've used opera 6, but didn't really like 7.
Then I switched to firefox.
Opera 8 looks very nice.
I missed the mouse gestures. (i'm actually typing this on 8, i just downloaded it to try it)
I don't much care for plugins for firefox. I really hate having to remember which ones I need to keep updated, it's much nicer for stuff to work "right out of the box".
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
No it doesn't. Not on three different computers using three different operating systems: Windows 98, Windows XP Pro, Gentoo Linux Maybe you need to get your computer fixed?
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
when you say linux license, you dont mean from SCO do you? or do you mean redhat/suse/whatever license?
Features such as tabbed browsing, and mouse gestures come standard with Opera, where with Firefox (at least when I tried it), you're required to track down and choose what plugin you want.
Just a minor correction. Firefox comes out of the box with tabbed browsing. The plugin is just for more options in controlling the behaivor of it.
I think the thing that Opera is better than Firefox in is speed and polish. It's very fast and the UI has been well thought out. Things in the browser work in ways you didn't even know you wanted them to...
As I mentioned above though the lack of decent adblock utility with it is holding a lot of people back. I know there is an adblock.css to use and there is the filter thing but installing and using them are an eyesore compared to how nicely polished the rest of the program is and they in no way compare to the ease of adblock for firefox. I can't wait until one shows up for Opera. I'd use it and not look back.
A dude in a cape!!
They just got another customer
A good user community that doesn't exist solely to bash other browsers
Apparently you are not part of that community?
Opera state on their website that:
"We've cleaned up our front yard. The Opera 8 interface is designed to make the advanced functions easy and effective to use. Menus, toolbars and other elements have undergone our "slim and clean"-routine. The licensed version has the largest browsing area in the industry."
Admittedly I haven't had a chance to try Opera 8 yet (still waiting for the server to settle down), however if they can get the screen real estate you can achieve with the Firefox-based K-Meleon (in which you can have every single item, including menus, on the one line), then I'll be impressed, and probably switch back. I doubt that they'll be able to back the above claim up, however...
~
~
~
-- INSERT --
No I didn't "prove" that. Did I promise I would "prove" anything? In fact I specifically worded my post to avoid doing so.
I'm stating my views and opinions.
Though unlike your babbling about religion (try saying what you mean next time, instead of employing childish name-calling), I at least stated why I think as I do.
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
I mean the Opera licence for Linux.
When you register Opera, you only register it for one platform - your code will only work on Windows is you purchased a Windows Opera licence.
I purchased a Windows and a Linux Opera licence.
So no, it's not a SCO 'licence' I'm talking about.
T.
I usually bring up the case of Dan Bricklin and VisiCalc -- a harrowing story of the man who single-handedly invented business computing as we know it -- but Opera is a good, closer case study.
It's so simple. Opera comes up with the conceptual innovations (say, mouse gestures or tabbed browsing), and then someone can hack up an extension in XUL to duplicate the functionality. Why would someone cough up the bucks to support Opera's R&D? I know I don't.
Granted, futile software patents are granted everyday, sp. when there is significant prior art already, but incentives are really being distorted here. Why would a company even invest in R&D? They can always just begin a company with no significant investment.
This is a schumpeterian collapse scenario, and it's dangerous for the future of technology as a whole.
It's pretty scary. Tell me, what open-source app has come up with a really new concept, if as minor as mouse gestures?
The #1 reason for Slashdot readers to use Opera is that moving back and forth between numerous comment levels occurs far, far ("fa, fa, fa, fa, faaaa... oooeeeeyyy!") faster in Opera than in *any* other browser. If you spend most of your day sucking every last detail of every story in this site, you'll really appreciate the time savings. So, all you uber-geeks could well be trimming months - maybe even years - off you life by *not* using Opera. Erm, yeah, well... maybe not quite that much and Firefox is still very nice, for sure, but give it a go with the old Right-click + Left-Click (and visa-versa) mouse-gestures and see if you feel happier and snappier. Now, is anyone geekish enough to compare the time differences moving between Slashdot comments-tree levels in IE, Firefox and Opera? Oh, go on...
http://www.tireswing.com/foo.xml
and view the source.. it's XML. All major browsers except Opera support it, AFAIK.
I have been with opera since I can remember, and I've loved it always. I'm on 8 beta at the moment, but will soon be upgrading. The experience is FAR superiour to what firefox could EVER provide, not to mention the thin appearance and customizability. Web pages show up as about 98% of my screen, not like 90% that you can get with ff. *shudder*. Plus, I hate, I despise, even, having the tab list and the address bar at the top. Mine is, and always will be, at the bottom. SO much better. Wow.
The Cryptography Forum is new and needs help
You just described the Mozilla Suite.
If you're looking for a fully integrated browser then you're looking for the suite. Firefox doesn't include those features because that's the reason it exists in the first place: to provide a stand-alone browser without the fluff with a standard, simple interface.
I really wonder why on earth people use FireFox? And how come it's suddenly so big thing? I mean, FireFox is quite young project and everybody seems to use it now. So.. what browser did you use before it? Do you really think Firefox is "in" now?
:)
And Firefox used to have slogan "Firefox is the most customizable browser on the planet" or something. That's so not true.
Opera _IS_ infact way more configurable. Can you configure all the menus, keyboard hotkeys, mouse gestures ("mouse hotkeys"), position of toolbars, what javascript is allowed to do and what it isn't.. Can you? I don't know about FF but you sure can in Opera.
And a VERY nice feature in Opera 7.60/8 is User Javascript. See here: http://my.opera.com/hallvors/journal/44 http://my.opera.com/hallvors/journal/45 You can even create adblocker type of thing with User Javascript (there's already one, search opera forums/journals. It blocks Google and slashdot ads just fine
You should REALLY try Opera and see what you're missing.
well, since firefox is actually a descendent of mosaic/netscape/mozilla, which *used* to have 90%+ market share, you could say that the power of the open source methodology has enabled it's leading browser to *lose* 85% market share...
;)
;)
however, this would be interpreting the figures in a startlingly unrealistic and selective way, wouldn't it? i'm not including the mozilla suite, or other appearances of gecko, etc. kind of what you're doing with that ridiculous figure above that looks at one measure of success only -- apparent desktop penetration
why do i say this? opera has an ever-increasing share in the mobile market, an area in which it is light-years ahead of the competition, and for which opera actually *makes money* -- yes, that's real money. firefox has 0% of this market. perhaps it will pick up some eventually, i understand there is a project heading in this direction. so what else... well, opera's rendering core now underpins the latest iteration of rendering for the newly revealed Adobe Creative Suite 2. hey, guess what - they got paid money for that too
so, from what i'm seeing, opera isn't exactly struggling. they have over 200 employees, they have revenue, they have direction, and thus far every interesting new browser feature seems to have originated with them. the mouse gestures, the tabbed browsing, etc. opera did it first -- and i am quite happy to see them provoke yet more innovation in the browser market. heck, even something as seemingly simple as page-zoom has yet to be implemented as effectively on anything else (not counting font scaling -- seriously, the way opera does it is far, far better than anyone else's efforts)
don't think i'm not also a firefox supporter though. i actually have firefox installed, and have written a few extensions for it, the most widely used of which is DeviantLink, which will reach its 10,000th download shortly... http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/10222974/
nevertheless, my preferred browser is opera, i paid for it and enjoy it's superior responsiveness, but i also support and use firefox. indeed, i have encouraged many friends and colleagues to install firefox instead, depending on their requirements. what i really object to is the "all your base are belong to firefox" mindset. it owes a hell of a lot to opera, and it's sad to see people forget that. competition is good, innovation is good, and opera represents the best of that mindset...
I do not think FireFox's approach of all or nothing to pop-up blocking is feasible everywhere; a lot of corporate Intranet applications use/spawn pop-ups windows.
One of the nifty features of Opera is that they force pop-ups to stay only within the tab that loaded/created them. Your other tabs are uncluttered. That allows me to use a tab for the applications that actually need pop-ups while leaving my other tabs free of such pop ups.
Beat that Firefox!!
Here's a link to the Swedish University Network (SUNet), who mirrors the files from Opera.com.
Your posts says nothing useful about open vs. closed. All it does is to draw conclusions from dubious arguments. As you can see, Mozilla struggled for years before they stripped down the browser and the MSIE warnings started to appear everywhere. Rather than a simple factor, this whole thing is a matter of combinations of factors.
Also, Opera actually has to sell a product to survive. It has to make money. Firefox was primarily created to grow quickly, and since Mozilla gets dontations from huge corporations like Nokia, IBM, Sun, and so on, they don't have to worry about sales. They get the money anyway.
Opera needs to focus on the bottom line, and maybe, just maybe, it's more important for Opera to have enough money to keep up development, rather than throwing it all out just to grow and make nothing.
Clever signature text goes here.
Screw IE.
Meh.
I think he means for Opera. Before v8, Opera had different licenses for different operating systems. Basically, if you bought it for windows, you used to have to then buy it for Linux if you wanted to change.
The terms have since changed, likely due to the changing market conditions. One license is now good for an entire household's computers, on any OS.
Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
If you want ad/malware-blocking you can install a local web-proxy like Proxomitron to add this to whatever browser you like. To speak in "Firefox language" consider it an ad-blocking extension to Opera, or IE or Mozilla, or Lynx or telnet for that matter. No need to put something as basic & genericly useful as ad-blocking in a browser is there?
Plus, if this isn't enough, you can always install a custom hosts ad-blocking file or a custom ad-blocking user-css file. After all all modern browsers support user-css. I'm using Firefox as we speak, but I've used Opera for a long time and I never had a problem with ads.
As for the rest of your post. Opera comes as big bundle, but noone is forcing you to use anything you dont want. It's not like we are talking Realplayer here!
Incidently I've never had any troubles upgrading Opera either. Why should you have troubles upgrading a browser anyway?
And Opera is faster & more responsive than Firefox has ever been. Using Firefox I still feel impatient every now and then knowing how fast Opera did respond in similar situastions.
So why did I switch from Opera to Firefox? Gmail and my online-banking didn't work in Opera, and I refused to use IE. In the end I got too fed up having to switch browsers. And I needed to get my mail checked and bills paid.
However Im not so narrow-minded I can't see the market for Opera. In fact if there is one thing I hate about Firefox: it's the lousy cache. Loisy crappy only to IE cache. When I press back in Opera, Im back when the mousebutton is released. When I do that in Firefox on my 1GB 2.4GHz P4 I still have to wait several seconds. Which is totally unacceptable.
And for all you Firefox fans out there. Remember all these features like tabed-browsing, popup-stoppers, user-agent switcher, plugin-control and stuff like that which you use to promotote Firefox? Remember how Firefox copied those from Opera? Nothing wrong with reusing a good idea, Im not saying that! But dissing Opera while getting your main attractions from it at the same time... Well, it just smells bad.
Yours sincerely, a less zealous Firefox user.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Opera runs very decent on my 300 MHz system (yes, the OS is from the dark side). After using Firefox for a while I had the urge to get a new computer. So, spending 30 bucks for Opera is much cheaper then the 300 bucks for new hardware. Same argument holds for Thunderbird and Eudora.
The PC Opera may fade, remember, its original claim to fame was SPEED on older hardware. Mobile Opera is way too mature for any competitor to surpass anytime soon.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
I'm a little tired of listening to people bitch about "why should I pay for opera when I can get --- for free....". Download the free version of opera, and ignore the small ad which is less than 1" tall and tucked away in a tool bar that wouldn't be part of the web page anyways. If you can't manage to ignore this little ad, then you should try looking at the web page you're browsing instead of looking for problems with the browser itself. You're the type of wanker who complain about the quality of a stereo because they listen to the noise instead of the music. Self righteous bunch of wankers...
These whiners are going to say something along the lines that these ads are spyware or some other load of crap. Opera has the best security standards as well as the best control over popups and cookies. They are the most respectful of user's privacy out there. So quit you're bellyaching.
Last time I looked at Opera the mac version sucked donkey balls. Has Opera ever upgraded it to be on par with the windows version? What about Linux? Sorry guys until it works well on my primary system, I'm certainly not going to pay for a proprietary, closed source browser on one of my tertiary machines.
If you fuck up and close a tab you wanted, you can undo. In fact, as long as you haven't closed opera, you can open any closed tabs that you had in the session.
http://people.opera.com/howcome/1999/foch.html
It is not as slim as k-meleon by default, but it can easily be changed to be as slim, or perhaps, even more slim (depending on what parts of the browser you find important). And by easy I mean point'n click and drag & drop.
Just right click on any toolbar and click customize. You can move/remove toolbars and remove/move/add elements on those toolbars (i.e. Don't want a back button, get rid of it. Don't like where the back button is? Move it. Don't like tabs on top, move them to the bottom, or either side...).
Just about everything can be removed or moved.
I used Opera for four years, from 2000-2004, then switched to Firefox for 2 main reasons:
1) Smaller menu bar at the top
2) I felt like a change
To be honest, though, Firefox was a bitch to set up with my three favorite features from Opera:
1)Mouse gestures - the Firefox extension's all-in-one gestures default to different gestures than the opera ones, which was annoying to fix, but not a big deal. Opera's defaults are more intuitive, too.
2) Save session. It took me awhile to find a good working version of this for Firefox, but I loved resuming my session when I closed Opera.
3) Quickly turn on and off pop-ups with F12. Still no good solution in Firefox, as far as I've found.
The fact that Firefox needs an extension for single-window mode is also kind of stupid and annoying. Other people have said this above, but good grief, people, Firefox owes a LOT to Opera. In fact, in a comparison I like Opera more. It's not IE. Firefox is NOT the end all of browsers; it's on par with Opera. Once I get bored with Firefox, I'll probably switch back. And the ad is a small price to pay for promoting a good product. It's a small bar, and if you hate it that much the inevitable crack takes maybe 1 minute of Googling to find.
Why is an insulting comment modded insightful?
It would be insightful if the author have tried 7.54 and 8.0 and said: "No, I've taylored my Firefox much better, just look at the extention list".
But maybe some moderators haven't tried Opera either, or just hate it for some reason? Well, there could be such reasons... I just don't have one.
There are numerous thing that keep me with Opera... The main is that everytime I download Firefox I tend to make Opera out of it by using tons of extentions. Why bother with google and downloads then?
Where is the "load this particular image" button in Firefox? Switch-images-on-the-fly? (G in Opera) Stop-showing-me-green-on-purple-5px-font? (Ctrl-G)
I've once lost ISP account information by pressing back in Firefox... Because I didn't know it reloads everything in sight by default. When one presses back, it means just "remind me please what it's all about" not "load that again, I've spent too little bandwidth".
Opera has shortcomings, of course. But Opera never annoys me, unlike other *cough IE cough* browsers. The FF is improving (and I actually like it from 0.8), but Opera is still a valid competitor at least. One should learn from one's rivals, not just ignore them.
PS: What I'd rather see in both browsers:
o "Resume loading page" button (ever lost connection to an on-line library?)
o "Load images below X*Y pixels (forum controls, smileys, etc)
o (FF has ext) delete *this* image NOW!!
o (Opera has for ages) show *this* image NOW!!
o Treat flash like images (it's visual and unsearchable, after all)
No, I won't write that myself (at least now). Why add bad code to FF?
WYSIWIG, but what you see might not be what you need
I use Firefox on the school computers, but I usually find myself installing at least two or three extensions before it feels even remotely close to my Opera setup at home. Sometimes I have to try many extensions that perform the same function because the version of FF at school isn't necessarily compatible with the extensions listed on FF's extension site, even though the version numbers seem to match. It's almost as bad as dealing with RPM-hell all over again.
I don't recall ever installing any third party software in Opera to make it work the way I like, it just always has these nice features built-in that far bulkier browsers seem to lack somehow. They also seem to be first with most of the best features such as mouse gestures, tabbed browsing, and integrated pop-up blocking. The most I've ever had to change my default Opera installation is to get a minimalistic icon set (Which was installed effortlessly with Opera's skin downloader and installer) to maximize content on my screen.
Anyway, cheers to Opera and I hope to test their latest creation. I'm already looking forward to version 9!
I personally use Mozilla Seamonkey, which I've been using since 1.3, and even before with Netscape 6 and 7.
You "can" customize Firefox, if you know XUL well enough. Firefox has User Javascript (Greasemonkey) too, as well as Mouse Gestures and so on. But they've been there in Opera for a long time.
Firefox is popular because it is riding on a huge trend, spread via blogs, news sites and general grass-roots marketing. That's something that Opera doesn't have. And even though I'm a long-time Mozilla user and supporter, I'd personally still use Opera rather than Firefox. But I still have my trusty Seamonkey.
ftp://ftp.ring.gr.jp/pub/net/www/opera/win/800b1/e n/std/
That's not the case anymore, recently Opera switched to a single license system. You can use the license on all your household computers, whatever the OS you are using.
If you don't like having choices made for you, you should start making your own. - Neal Stephenson
Why do you have to remember them? You only need to install them once. Afterwards, they can be managed via the Tools -> Extensions menu.
OLPC Australia
Without any further stalling for time, I give you the torrent.
Sorry dude, when you can get your back/fwd/reload/etc buttons and your tabs on the same line as your menu, then I'll be impressed (having said that, if it is possible, I'd be quite happy to hear how it's done). Until then, Opera's claim to have the largest browsing area is untrue.
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Oddly, bringing up netscape supports what I was saying. Netscape the proprietary browser fell before Microsoft; Mozilla and Firefox are now retaking market-share as Free Software.
No... just making some fascinating conclusions that clearly do not follow from the stated facts.
WTF?? Mozilla Firefox **by itself** is considered as having over 5% marketshare. (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/19/05372 05) If I were to include all Gecko browsers, the number would be somewhere between 7% - 9%.
As for the ridiculous figure looking at Desktop Penetration only one measure of success: from a user perspective it is perhaps not insignificant? After all how much web browsing (both in terms of % of users and % of time) takes place *not* on the Desktop? I imagine we do not need concrete figures to know that the vast majority of users access the internet via desktop computers for the majority of time.
Grand!
I was assuming that a company whose flagship product is a desktop web browser would probably want increased marketshare. And, after a number of years, Opera has far less marketshare than the recent newcomer Firefox.
You seem to suggest that their interest may lie elsewhere. You might be right. If Opera did not want to gain greater marketshare in the desktop web browser arena, than indeed they did not fail at the task.
Grand. To be clear, at no point did I make any comment on Opera's quality or on Firefox's quality.
Let me quote my own post:
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
Why are the bottom edges of the screenshots faded out? I wanted to see if Opera has the Mozilla-esque feature of providing link information and such at the bottom of the window.
Retired from software... maybe. Sort of.
Of course it is true. No other Web browser (including Opera) has an extensions system with as many extensions available. With a few extensions, Firefox can easily surpass Opera in features.
OLPC Australia
As a lot of people probably will comment there is a lot to be said for Opera compared to for instance Firefox. I'm not going to repeat that once again in this thread as I have in thousand of other similar threads, as I'm sure someone else will do that for me.
What I can't get about the FOSS zealots (I'm takling about the zealots here, not the sane people) is that they seem to think that free and open-source software will save the planet and that is all it takes. What they seem to forget is that for that to work in the first place, you need open standards.
Anyone care to show me a fully legal open-source DVD-player? With all the required libraries and decryption codes included? Didn't think so.
Focusing on open-source software alone is shortsighted beyond belief. You would think that the open-source community would have the wits to aknowledge the importance of other products embracing open standards, but given the response I see to every single Opera-story on slashdot: obviously not.
And wasn't open-source about to be about choice? Rideculing a alternative simply because it doesn't suit you in each and every way seems kind of hypcritical in this sense.
I use Firefox myself, but I'm there is in fact lot's of things I like about Opera where Firefox doesn't cut it. Even if there wasn't I'd still appreciate the fact there are other "major" browsers out there wich recognises the fact that the web needs open standards.
Please un-narrow your mind.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
The thing that amazed me about tabbed browsing is non-browser programs were going it for years before hand, and it took so long for web browsers to have it.
I wouldn't think doing something pre-existing, but in a browser is anymore patent worthy than doing something pre-existing but on the internet.
If Opera continues to invest in R&D it will continue to innovate, and continue to be ahead of the competition (I use Firefox, but Opera does seem to always be ahead innovation wise). Hence the pay off for R&D.
So R&D is a continual process giving continual results. It seems rather unreasonable to expect one R&D development to just keep paying for ever (or the patent duration). That would seem to me more harmful to technological advance as you can just rest on your laurels as it were.
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
heh, you can do this with v8 actually -- you can totally hide the menu toolbar with an ini setting (or key combo i think) and you can then hide the addrss/status bars and then simply drag/drop the back/forward/addressbar/etc onto the same line as the tabs using the customize dialog... it's remarkably easy ;)
if you want all the toolbar menu entries accessible then you can also easily create a button from which all toolbar menus drop-down (eg: a button called "Menu" which has all the menus drop-down beneath it). this page shows you how -- it's as easy as drag & drop. http://people.opera.com/rijk/opera/dndbuttons.html
The Web is like Usenet, but
the elephants are untrained.
With version 8.0, Opera has "improved" the interface by dumbing it down to the least common denominator. They've eliminated the Multiple Document Interface (MDI) by default and added really annoying close tab buttons on each and every tab. The lack of MDI means you can not resize a tab within the browser window.
To fix these shortcomings and make Opera behave as it did in version 7.x, you need to go to the hidden "Advanced Preferences". After 30 minutes of searching, the only way I could access this dialog was by clicking the link located at Operawatch.
Slashdot will not let me post the appropriate link correctly, but it is "opera:/button/Show%20Preferences,100,,,top10". If that does not work properly, add the following to your standard_toolbar.ini file: Button9, "Show preferences"="Show preferences, 100, , , "top10""
Eventually you should get a new button on your toolbar (you may have to go to Customize Toolbar to manually add it to a toolbar you have displayed), which you will have to click to access the Advanced Preferences. Once you are in the dialog, go to Windows and select Advanced Opera Workspace.
Who modded this to zero? How is this not informative?
I found that like many things, you don't appreciate Opera until you've actually experienced what it has to offer. It is one of those things that takes a paradigm shift. 30 Days to Becoming an Opera 7 Lover http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/7/ After trying out all the features pointed out on this site, I was hooked for good. Anyone interested in Opera should read that. No, it doesn't have to take more than 1 day to go through the guide. Yes, everything there should still apply to Opera 8. New features added since then are listed in the changelog and discussed by fanboys all over the forums. A few things I really like about Opera: -To search for something on Google just type "g something" into the adress bar. You can enter in any operators you would type in Google. Several different sites are built-in and you can add your own. -Text entered in forms is kept even after leaving the page and coming back to it (for times you get an error or need to get info from another page) -Many great skins, all of which you can instantly change the color scheme for. -Quick, sorted search any feild of any bookmark, email, note, or address book entry -Press F4 for quick access to a panel that gives quick access to search, bookmarks, mail, contacts, notes, transfers, window/tab manager, history, IRC chat, and info about the page your visiting. -Completely customizable toolbars and ability to create buttons. -Don't load images or only load from cache. -Disable sound, GIF animations, java, plugins, referrer logging, cookies, or proxies by pressing F12 -Auto-saving of sessions -Mouse gestures, but not just the click-drag ones. To go forward simply hold down the left mouse button and tap the right one. Or hold the right and tap the left to go back. This is by far the greatest user interface invention EVER.
Check your facts - Firefox doesn't have gestures out of the box, it's a plugin.
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
Clever signature text goes here.
Use the proxomitron or some other ad blocker and keep using Opera.
I find proxomitron works much better than Adblock even though it looks like it`s not being developed anymore sadly.There are plenty of alternatives though.
Now the only feature I would like to see in Opera is the Flash click to play thingy like firefox has.
My post spoke of Free Software versus Proprietary Software and did not address browser quality.
So I'm not sure how you came to your conclusion.
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
here: http://www.130th.net/pub/mirror/opera/win/800/en/o w32enen800.exe
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
No idea, I've havent experienced anything like that. You could try changing the default document cache lifespan though, in Prefs->Advanced->History->Check Documents. I have that set for Always to make sure I never pull down old pages. This way it will still use the cached copy if the page hasn't changed, but it will always check to see if it has just in case--note that this doesn't affect history transversal (always uses cache) or F5 reloading (always redownloads the document).
Yes, I have used Gmail. In fact, using Gmail was what made me switch from Opera to Firefox. Gmail didn't work with Opera.
Here is something that Firefox messed up - How about allowing me to have a separate program open images? I don't want FF to handle images in web pages, I want them to open in Irfanview. I can't get this to work in FF (1.0.2). They just took away the option. I tried an extension, it didn't work. Firefox, why take away functionality?
If Gmail works with this new version of Opera, I may have to switch back. It's zoom and mouse gestures are better. If I accidentally close my last tab in Opera, the browser doesn't shut down. i.e. I can have Opera open with no tabs open. If I do that in FF, the browser closes (grrrrrr). With mouse gestures, it is easy to do.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Other smaller things I also liked, like how link addresses pop up in a tooltip on mouseover. This allowed me to cut out the statusbar without travelling blind. It can still show during page loads, but doesn't take up space during viewing. A nice touch too was the way tab favicons shrink as more tabs open up, allowing more room on the row.
I've been a diehard Firefox fanboy because of the customizability (and full Gmail support), but I'd like to see some of these features in upcoming releases.
http://ftp.tiscali.nl/opera/ -- if you can't download it from www.opera.com... I can't... Only I do know we have a mirror.. ;)
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Edward TLS
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In other news, astrophysicists have announced that they now know what all that dark matter is: it's stupidity.
What part og GPG/PGP is it that you consider DRM?
GPG at least is an open standard, and when decrypted no-one is forcing you to keep the content locked down.
Do you consider SSH DRMed Telnet? Just asking.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Firefox has been around (as a Browser "on the map") for surely no more than 2 years. And it is at 5%+ marketshare already.
Except that before Firefox was Firefox it was Mozilla Firebird, and before that it was Mozilla Pheonix, and before that it was Mozilla and before that it was Netscape Navigator, which probably makes it a little bit more than 2 years. Argue as much as you like, but Firefox is basicly just the evolution of Netscape with the bloat added and removed midstream.
People didn't jump onto Firefox out of nowhere. Many were deep into the Mozilla/Netscape thing to begin with. The people who have jumped on to Firefox probably used Navigator until it bloated into oblivion and got back when the Mozilla foundation had a made a good product out of it again.
If you are going to show of the supiriority of Open Source please use somewhat factual facts, so you don't make the open-source community look like blatant liars.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
You'll be happy to know that some users are working on just that. When the Opera forums come back, go to the wish list one and search for Opera AdBlock thread. Go to the last page or so, and there will be a discussion about a user JS, User CSS and some C++ code people wrote to do AdBlock.
Or, you could do what I do and use proxomitron and just have most ads gone after install, with no need to go to sites and right click etc...
Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
While I tend to install Firefox on end users computers because it's free I myself use Opera.
As has been noted by others in this thread once you have Opera installed your pretty much done save for configuring it the way you like it. With Firefox you have to install a number of plugins to get that same level of functionality and hope that they will run with the current version of Firefox.
But the real point I want to make here is that while Opera does not have a native ad blocker in place I have always simply used my hosts file as a universal ad blocking mechanism. Dan Pollock maintains a great one on his site and I've yet to find a false positive in it.
The best part about going this route is that all programs on your machine get the benefit of blocking these ad servers or whatever else you care to put in the file. So if you ever have to, , use IE on a website that refuses to work with anything else you are still protected.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
http://www.opera.com/products/desktop/compare/ Here is a feature comparison link. You can surely guess what "Browser 1" and "Browser 2" are..
I lag
oh rite, i thought you meant a linux license (not for opera), as in you bought mandrake or something in a box.
sorry about that.
Gmail in the new 8.0 version now works. That's my biggest stumbling block out of the way.
It's strange that noone of the ./ crowd has mentioned that Opera is the best browser for porn.
With the smart use of space button, and ability to load the images in succession as they are linked on the page helps a lot when you are just too... uhm... distracted... to use the mouse.
Actually this shows the strength of Open Source Marketing - if such a term exists.
Just take a quick look at Spread Firefox and take a look at how high the number of firefox downloads is now. Only a few weeks away from 50 million.
Sure it's due more to viral marketing than anything else, but Opera could have been there too and isn't.
That being said - doing what they are doing now and focusing on the mobile market is the better long term business decision.
The true winner is really the consumer from the competition, so keep up the good work all.
http://hughgordon.com/
...because I've grabbed a copy to try out.
Unlike Opera 7, I can actually find the various settings, and it at least seems to be very fast. Lacking ad blocking, though (not the ads that the free version of the browser puts on screen, which are fairly unobtrusive and that I'm willing to live with, but the ones we all know and hate), will keep me on Firefox.
- the best tabs implementation anywhere(including the ever-useful Undo Close), with smart interactions, quick cycling, and readily handling 40+ tabs at a time
- a fully customizable user interface that hides whatever you don't want to see or aren't using
- SSR/ERA, fantastic design tool
- SVG support
- RSS/Atom reader
- M2 mail client
- IRC client
- natural, responsive mouse gestures
- Opera Slideshow and FF/Rewind implementation
- Panels - Including Links, Transfers, Notes, Windows, Info, and the ability to add your own
- F12's Quick Preferences
- optional Voice module for voice-command browsing and text-to-speech on web pages
- easy-to-use Wand tool
- robust right-click menus(including text translations and url-hopping)
- many keyboard shortcuts
- Spatial navigation
- User Stylesheets and User JavaScripts
- tons of text encodings supported
- And more!
With Gmail fully supported, and my bank letting Opera 8 in(after having refused betas access), the only reasons I need to go into Firefox now are site testing and Flashgotting.I will have to try that out. I have always liked how customizable O is and lately I have been using it in conjunction with LiteStep (replacing explorer) where I tweaked the fullscreen option so that when you hit F11 in Opera it leaves room on the bottom to see my LiteStep menus. Doing that leaves the Opera window with nothing in it (not even file menus or the title bar). Then I just open a new window in it and the buttons and address bar are visible at the top (and hideable via keyboard shortcut for when I don't need them). The only thing there is, the tabs are not visible. I am used to using ctrl+tab to switch between them anyway so its not a problem for me but it doesn't achieve what was mentioned higher up in the thread. But, if you are looking for Maximum screen useability I haven't seen anything better then this.
1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
For a browser people seem to love to bash, The page is still being slowed down from all the people (probably from /.) heading over to DL it.
What I reacted on in your post had nothing to do with the oh-so traditional Firefox vs. Opera flamewar.
It was the statement that could easily be read as that the open-source model had achieved much more than the proprietary in just a forth of the time. That was what I found unreasonable and triggered my reaction.
As much as I like the idea of open source software, I think lots of its fanbase behave rather singlemindedly and I guess that annoys me. Personally I don't think there is such a thing as a "perfect" development model which applies to everything.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Opera may be smaller, and better in some respects, but your gripe about the adblocker in Forefox is unfounded. The right regular expression (per website of course) for the 'adblock' extension will block ads but not images. Hell, even "*ad*" would block nearly all ads but block almost no images (assuming you never came across 'ad' anywhere in a legimiate image url).
You might be thinking of the built-in function of Firefox, "Block images from [site]". Besides, even if you were to use said built-in function, it would block the site serving the ads, like doubleclick, mediaplex, etc., and not images originating on the site you're looking at. There's also this neat little function that will only load images for originating site (in Options/Preference, under Web Features, check "for the originating site only").
Let's take your "local newspaper" as an example since you seem to use it. Say "Pittsburgh Business Times" (which is where you live according to your website). Here's a url titled "Sales Power": Now of course, if you were to block http://*bizjournals* then you would block all images coming from that site (don't want that), although that still wouldn't block any ads that didn't originate on the site anyways. Let's take a look at a doubeclick url: Long url, eh? Doubleclick is one of the most comment advertising hosts, but you can block anything with "doubleclick" in the url by using this expression: http://*doubleclick* Voila. That blocks nearly all ads on the page.
So before you speak of adblocking features built into Firefox or available as addons, do a bit of research first, and don't discount Firefox simply because you're not experienced with it.
I hate FOSS zealots as much as you do, probably more....
But....
Have you used Opera? Would you actually pay to use it? Me neither. That was my only point.
Insert offensive troll-style sig here. Please mod or respond appropriately.
I've been using opera for several years now; I've also converted the parents over. About 2-3 days ago, I came across a rare site that didn't like opera (This happens maybe once a month tops - usually not even that), and downloaded firefox.
My first impressions were less than favourable. Immediatly off the bat it was obviously slower, but that I could live with. My main complaints lie in the usability of it.
In opera, I can hit 1/2 on either the number keys at the top, or on the numeric keypad - this jumps left/right one tab at a time; I couldn't find an equivilant in FF.
The tab implimentation: In opera, if I have multiple tabs open, and am say browsing tab 3 - if I click tab 10, then click it again - it minimises tab 10, and takes me back to tab 3. As you would expect of properly focusing windows. If I close tab 10 instead of minimising it - it goes back to tab 3. In FF I can't even minimise a tab - I have to click to another one. And if I close it instead, it doesn't take me back where I was before - silly implimentation.
Session managment: When you close opera and restart it - poof - I'm back where I left off, this changes browsing totally - you don't need to bookmark sites you only need for the afternoon/week - you just leave them open. If opera/pc crashes, or the power goes out - opera remembers where it was before, and starts from there. It also prompts you when it recovers from crashing, asking if you want to load all of your windows or start afresh - in case a page was killing it, and it gets into a loop cycle.
Ctrl-Z - Undo closing a website, simple yet so handy.
Opening new pages in a foreground/background tab with just a click+shortcut key; okay I've heard you can set a default action in FF - but in opera, I just hit shift for front, ctrl-shift for background. Middle mouse button click also dumps them in the background. All keyboard shortcuts are found next to the relevant mouse-click version.
These are just a couple of things; and I know a lot of them are available via plugins - but opera just feels more polished to me. Besides. Why should I have to bother fixing the borked tab implimentation??
In Opera, I can get around more easily, it saves me time and effort. This isn't supposed to be a critique of FF, merely a user who went to use FF and found a bunch of things he didn't much like.
I have some complaints with opera aswell; it also takes a couple of mins to trash some of the silly bars it includes, remove some of the less useful buttons, and stick my tabs back on the bottom of my screen - but it takes a lot less time than hunting for a plugin that does what I want. Even if I didn't use the mail client/rss feeds from within opera (Which 8 has completely sorted), until FF feels as polished - I have no real reason to move.
Dakisha
I've been using Opera since forever, and KDE for ~a year so far as well. Basically, Opera is much better at actually browsing the web, while you can use Konqueror to browse literally just about *anything*, thanks to KParts and KIOSlaves.
:)
Things Opera has that Konqueror doesn't, off the top of my head: (for the most part, these apply to Firefox sans extensions as well)
- Middle click to close tabs (this is actually possible with Konqi, but you have to edit a config file manually, and I only found it by looking around at bugs.kde.org...)
- Minimize tabs -- it won't be activated (eg, after closing the previous tab) unless you do it manually -- great for when there's a page you want to get back to later
- Reopen previously closed tabs
- When you go back/forwards, it happens *instantly*
- Faster and more responsive in general -- I'm often pissed at how laggy Opera is and go to try Konqi/Firefox, only to find that they're even worse
- Native embedded-in-page SVG support (not much use at the moment, but hey, it's there)
- Fit to width
- Better zoom - both text and images
- Fast forward -- finds the 'next' link, follows it
- When you use forward (at least, the mouse gesture for it, which is what I always use), and there's nothing forwards in the history, it falls back on fast forward instead; or if there's a login form that you have stored info for, it logs you in. it's little things like this that can be very convenient...
- Switch tabs by holding right mouse button + scrolling the wheel (tip: in the preferences, change it to "without showing list")
- The scrolling thingy you get when middle clicking in a page is faster/better
- Ability to have the sidepanel on the right (sorry, this is a pet issue of mine
- Lots of nifty things you can do with said sidepanel -- drag tabs between windows and otherwise manage them via the 'windows' panel, select all the relevant links in the page in the 'links' panel and open them all at once, quick & easy notetaking (keeps track of which site you took them on, 'copy to note' entry in most context menus, etc.), embed a webpage as a panel with smallscreen rendering, it goes on
- 'nicknames' for bookmarks, and for folders -- type it in the address bar to open it (so I just type 'technews' and it opens all 10-20 sites I have in that folder)
- sessions -- if it crashes, when you next start it you have the option of resuming where you left off (you can also save/open sessions manually)
- better handling of tabs in general -- can't quite figure out the difference, but when closing a page it usually activates the one I want, where Konqueror doesn't
- UI is more customizable
- better fullscreen mode
- quickly toggle whether images are shown (useful for dialup, not so much for broadband)
- full browsing with keyboard shortcuts
- reopen blocked popups (getting into the features I don't personally use here...)
- voice capabilities
Things Konqueror has Opera doesn't:
- Convenient GUI way to change keyboard shortcuts
- Inline text editing (Opera can be configured to use ASpell iirc, but you have to press a button for it to check)
- Uses native Qt widgets (Opera has many excellent skins, but this would be better)
- Effectively browse things that aren't the web
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
I've used Opera. It's an excellent browser in every way. It was Gmail and my online banking that forced me to use Firefox in the first place, as I refused to use IE.
Anyhow, as I see it, they both have their strengths and there are improvements I'd like to see in both of them. Last version of Opera I used 7.5, and I doubt too much have changed since then.
And yes, if I had a steady income back in the days when Opera was my main browser I would be more than happy to shell out my cash for such a quality product.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
IE, Opera, and Firefox as "the big three"... can somebody point me to reliable guesstimates (!) on market breakdown of usage? cheers.
The guy capitalizes "free" and "free software". You're arguing with a zealot.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Yeah, but after a year or so using Firefox it's like hell to see them going like that. I like my last tab to be the last one in line, so when I close the original tab to see the next which is the first one opened, going like this to the last. I can't seem to get this to work in Opera. I've tried all the settings regarding the cycling of the tabs.
And the most annoing thing is no matter what I do it returns to the original page, which is a pain in the arse, because, if I dont' want to close the original page, I don't want to stumble on it every time I close a tab.
Am I doing something wrong or there is a way to setup this behavior in Opera?
I waited a while to avoid the slashdot traffic, got my copy and got up and running. First page I went to was the MSDN KnowledgeBase which Opera had problems with. To my delight, they fixed it : )
/. and I press Ctrl + T to get a new tab. Lo and Behold, the Add a new bookmark comes up. Not cool.
Opera is now snappier and ineed more lightweight than it used to be.
So I go to post my happy findings to
I'm posting this from Firefox and have realized one very important thing: I'm in love with the cute little fox and it's Ctrl+T, Ctrl+TAB, Ctrl+W, Ctrl+Click interface. However, way to go Opera, you have now become a browser that I do not dislike.
I used to use Opera but switched because the attitude of the developers. Users were asking for various features in the Mail Client (like stuff with signatures or HTML compose). The developers were adamant that they were doing things their way, regardless of users wants or need. Some of their reasoning was there was no standard for this or that, or it conflicted -- never mind every other mail client in existence had some of the features. I think you even see this in the discussion of ad-blocking. They are more than entitled to do things their way, but don't expect people to use it, and definitely don't expect people to pay for it. If you are developing a product you want people to use, I think it makes sense to give them what they want. But I guess enough companies have proved me wrong on that.
Being one of the biggest Opera fan, I'd have to say that Firefox is fine just the way it is. I use Opera as my full time browser, but Firefox doesn't need all those features. Why? Firefox isn't meant for power hungry users by default. It's something that IE users can use. Opera on the other hand, provides all those features to users that are looking for some heavy features. While I'd have to say this, Opera is a bit intimidating when you first start it up with all the panels opened up. I haven't upgraded just yet to 8.0 (I'm on 8.0 Beta 3) or did a fresh install on Opera 8, I hope it is something that Opera fixed. All those panels are really intimidating once I came from Firefox. After spending about twenty or thirty minutes, I really cleaned things up to have it look like how I wanted it to and I just love it. Opera just works.
- Teja
"...Doubleclick is one of the most comment advertising hosts, but you can block anything with "doubleclick" in the url by using this expression: http://*doubleclick* Voila. That blocks nearly all ads on the page."
Excellent post. Just wanted to add to that last line that you'll not only block nearly all ads on the page, but on any other page that use the same ad provider, as well. In the case of doubleclick, this seems like half of the Internet. Bonus!
Due to the nature of centralized online advertising, if you focus initially on a few well-selected sites (covering the normal gamut of your online surfing activities) and are judicious in your pattern-matching expressions, you'll find that you'll be blocking 90% of all ads in a matter of minutes (even on sites you've never visited)!
Give it a shot; it's quite satisfying. >8)
Well, it is nice that there is a plug-in (adblock) which integrates into Firefox just fine. I am using it too when surfing the Web with Firefox, which is the case 1..3% of the time.
IE scores probably less than 1%, and only due to the occasional manual checkup if my W2K-System is fully patched.
The rest is Opera. And Privoxy, which is way above adblock and certainly more powerful than any conceivable "adblock replacement" or such.
Take your Opera, set it up to get input from your locally installed Privoxy (Port 8118) and crank the Prixoy up at first in its standard configuration -- you will never ever give adblock a second thought.
However, after a while you might be tempted to fine tune your new HTTP proxy to your needs. Just do it!
It was nice to meet you,
Waran
Sig? What sig?! Ah, sig! Sigh.
Opera!
You need to get a more diverse group of friends ;-)
As for me, I will NOT switch to Opera.
Well, that's fine. Opera isn't for every one. It's certainly not for people who don't use the web at all. ;-) The casual web user would also not be greatly advantaged by using Opera. As for me, I will continue to use FireFox, Links, Amaya, Maxthon and (from time to time) MS IE. My browser of choice will remain Opera.
.. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
F11 work for you?
.. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
What's the problem, what would SW patents "fix"?
It wasn't crap. Depends what are terms of comparation. If you compare Phoenix with Opera at that time, yeah it was crap. Any other browser at that time, except Opera, was crap. I was still looking for Netscape 3 at that time as the best browser.
And Phoenix 0.6 was just ok, 0.5 crashed from time to time. From my point of view Phoenix 0.6 was the last beta version of Firefox. But my mistake Pheonix 0.6 was Firebird 0.6. So in way you are right.
Yeah, it's nice of them to develop a good browser with nice features, not patent those features, and then let another group making a free browser steal it all and give their browser away.
It's tough to sell a product when your competitor is giving it away.
Firefox costs money, too. A 1GB dual channel RAM kit costs about $200.
-Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither. -Ben Franklin
OK, then. If Opera is so customizable, could someone please tell me exactly what to do to get my Opera 8 to look like this (a mockup). I have tried a lot of things, but Opera doesn't seem to want to cooperate.
WTF?
d =1342234319&site_id=1&request_id=8dfasdfsdf8:
/ B1231090.170;dcadv=852807;sz=728x90;dcopt=rcl;clic k=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=1246ko9oh/M=320917.6 328163.7310618.313120/D=mail/S=150500004:N/EXP=111 3953061/A=2619669/R=0/*;ord=1113945861811890?:
"Does FIREFOX allow me to 'archive' a web page like Konqueror can?" (Notice in Konqueror on the menu bar that little globe icon with 2 dog-eared corners (SW & NE) and one white dog ear, (SE))
Unless I'm missing it (not sighting it in FIREFOX), THAT is one reason I don't use FIREFOX, and stopped using Opera, for that matter, tho I LIKE Opera. I imagine tho that, if FIREFOX adds the feature, downloads in the windoze land version of FIREFOX may triple. (I don't surf with windoze, only using win98 in Win4Lin 4.0, in Mandrake 10.0 (there was no Mandriva, hehhe, at rel. 10.0), due to my addiction to Lotus SmartSuite, particularly Lotus Approach and Lotus WordPro, for the things they give me won't be available in SO/OO.o for another decade at the rate SO/OO.oo are going... not flamebait, but FACT, as I've asked them to look at and "borrow" to the extent legal, some WP/Appr features, which they can't seem to appreciate from a user's perspective... (slams skull against wall, again...) )
So, FIREFOX/mirrors, get ready for serious bandwidth consumption in the next release. Add site page archiving... Before ms tries to patent it for windoze/iexploder...
=======
As for ad blocking, well, with a combination of Konqueror and Firestarter, I block out unctuous cookie and ad-spammers and usually see:
"An error occurred while loading http://ads.somesite.com/?ad_id=3432234324&alloc_i
Timeout on server
Connection was to ads.somesite.com at port 80"
Or:
"An error occurred while loading http://n3285ad.doubleclick.net/adi/N3285.yahoocom
Timeout on server
Connection was to n3285ad.doubleclick.net at port 80"
But, it is at the price of very slowwwww page downloads. It''s the price I pay (umm, am WILLING to pay) to let them know I have NO SOCIAL CONTRACT with double-dick. I don't want THEM or their kind cataloging me. I can't win, but at least I can slow down their efforts, a little, tiny bit.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Neither mouse gestures nor tabbed interface to multiple documents were invented by Opera. They "only" brought it to the browser world in a good way. Software patents would have prohibited that and maybe would have lead to several applications, each with one killer feature, but none with all of them.
What is with opera mounting a DMG when it launches? Everytime I launch opera, an Opera disk image shows up in the finder. What the hell?
I just tried 8.0b1, and it looked exactly the same as 7.54, and it still did the damn disk image mounting thing. Annoying.
-- The doctor said I wouldn't get so many nose bleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!
I think you have to use the Status toolbar. Change it's position to show at the top, then drag all the buttons you want to keep from the address bar to the status toolbar. Then disable the address bar, and you're set.
It's a bit akward, but it works. But if you want to view the status, you'll have to relocate the status field elsewhere.
You could set a key, let's say F9, to execute the command: Show popup menu, "Browser menu bar"
Or, you could add the following line toolbar.ini, which is a dual function button:
Button10, "Menu"="Enable menu bar, , , "Menu", "Window browser icon" | Disable menu bar, , , "Menu", "Window browser icon" + Show popup menu, "Browser menu bar""
(change the number 10 for the good number of the button)
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
FF has its advantages but Im still an Opera fan. Its like an import that can have this that and the other thing bolted on limited by vision and google searching vs the fully loaded caddie that blows your socks off when you get in it at the show room and drive it home the first time. FF slows down to crap after 12 extn's (# takes me to get 90% comprable features to Opera) and file size goes up. After you add so much extra something is bound to hit the fan. Too many Opera features rock hard to name give it a try for a week and try to use the features then make a decision it sucks... computers facility the expierence dont deny yourself a scratch and sniff -mm ff does have superior web dev tools (js debuger esp)
There is NO correct way to render Slashdot. Slashdot uses an obsolete DTD, and renders in both FireFox and IE6 in Quirks Mode.
The designers of Slashdot HTML obviously targeted IE when they designed it. Meaning, they did not target W3C specs for HTML 3.2 (and then apply hacks to workaround IE rendering bugs) they simply hacked HTML & pressed Reload. No wonder the web is so bad.
If Slashdot ever moves into something modern, like XHTML + CSS, and I mean VALID code, then it might be fair for the grandparent poster to say FireFox gets it wrong.
Microsoft's just not interested in fixing their rendering bugs: corrupting the standard is a win for them.
When I sign or encrypt my mail with my private key in GPG everyone is still free to download my public key. In fact with modern keyservers people who doesn't have my key can probably do that automatic.
This doesn't hinder anyone in reading the mail or verifying the signature/encryption. In fact all it does is alloving me to ensure whoever I send mail, that it is me sending the mail, not some spoofer or virus. How is this a bad thing?
I see your stance against Encrypted GPG more as stance on ecnryption in general. Anyway, if I want only one person I know to be able to read my mail because what Im sending him is strictly confidential... Is that wrong? If the recipient of my mail still wants to do something with the content he is free to do so. There is no DRM-mechanisms there to stop him.
When we oppose DRM it should be because it is implemented to take control away from us, the users, and give it to the machine/software/content-owners. GPG however does no such thing.
I think you are overly generalising your (valid) fear.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Oooh. Wasn't aware of that. Thanks.
I puchased Opera a long time ago when you did only purchase the licence for the OS you were using at the time.
T.
Sure it's due more to viral marketing than anything else, but Opera could have been there too and isn't.
Personally, as a Opera user since v6 or thereabouts, I'm rather happy with how it turned out. I wouldn't want Opera to be number #1 (or even #2) browser on the planet. I like it the way it is, an alternative browser.
Having a small market share means significantly less chance of Opera being a target of a spyware/virus/worm of some sorts. IE is, of course, the prime target. With increased visibility and market share, Firefox/Mozilla is bound to be up next (sorry, but being open source doesn't grant a SW shield of immunity). I seriously doubt anyone considers Opera a viable attack vector. Which suits me fine.
That being said, off to DL page I go.
How to do this? In Opera 8 goto the Tools menu, then preferences. Click "advanced" and then "shortcuts". Click the edit button for the keyboard setup. In the dialog that opens, find the text "backspace" without quotes. Find this line (or the mac platform line if you're on a mac):
I fail to understand how you feel this is a solution. I state the problem: I "the web designer", not I "the Opera user", cannot remove the default functionality of the backspace key when a single form item is focused. Your solution: Have the Opera user alter their keyboard configuration for all web pages.
As for your following note to post the question on the Opera Forums, I did and I have been receiving loads of hate mail every day for the past two weeks. However, they have failed to come up with a solution for cancelling the Backspace KeyEvent.
The previous comment is purposely vague and generalized, but all of the facts are completely true.
This is the first public release that includes voice functionality as well! Using XHTML+Voice (X+V), you can create multimodal Web pages (i.e. pages that you can speak to and can respond back as well). Examples include asking webmail for urgent email then having them displayed or asking for tomorrow's calendar. The true power of this is when you combine X+V with Google or Yahoo! APIs. Imagine just asking your Web browser for movie listings, or latest IBM news. More info available & an Eclipse-based toolkit for creating X+V content available here: http://www.bm.com/pvc/multimodal
Typo...the correct link is http://www.ibm.com/pvc/multimodal/
:-P).
This technology is also useful for mobile field/sales forces, technicians that need ready access to schematics, really anywhere you need handsfree access to information (think a police officer running your plate before pulling you over for speeding
How about backing up your ridiculous accusations?
Which is a good thing. Prove it. I searched for your name in the forums, and there was no "hate mail", just lots of people telling you that the user should bein control.If you do have a site license, then fix Opera on your site instead of expecting Opera to cripple its browser by allowing web pages to override keys.
Clever signature text goes here.