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The Art and Design of Quake 4

Gamespy has a feature discussing the upcoming first person shooter Quake 4. More details about the title are revealed in an interview and screenshots provided by some of the folks at Raven. From the article: "I think we have a lot of diversity throughout the entire game. We have some dark areas, and we have outdoor areas that are brighter. I think how diverse everything is will really go a long way. We didn't really set out saying, 'This game is going to be dark, this game is going to be light' -- we set out to make a cohesive environment where you go through different extremes and you'll see a bunch of different stuff."

335 comments

  1. I always thought by TheKidWho · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quake 2 was the best one single player wise.

    Maybe this one will be as good?(although that's not saying much heh, better then doom 3 I hope though)

    1. Re:I always thought by Janitha · · Score: 1

      Hopefully they will unveil this before Quakecon in August.

      Since its not iD, wonder if they will take the opposite approach iD took for Doom III to where everyone will be saying "LOL, Quake IV is bright!".

      Only a matter of time before we find out how raven does.

    2. Re:I always thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I liked Q1 most, myself. The weapons were nice, the patterns for killing enemies without receiving damage were pleasant, the physics had a nice "feeling," and the gothic setting felt much less like a bad SciFi movie. Playing it co-op was fun, too.

      I never much liked the artwork for Q2, nor the weapons for the most part. The change in the game physics was also sort of disappointing.

      If Q4 is all SciFi-ish like Q2, I'll only really be into it if it has had zero art contribution from id. Raven has good artists, but id has shown in Q2, Q3, and Doom 3 that it has a penchant for tacky models. Really pretty maps, with really, really bad models filling them.

    3. Re:I always thought by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      really ? I finished it on Hard in two evenings.

      Quake 1 was much better imho (those shamblers!), with Half-Life 1 as teh daddeh

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    4. Re:I always thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      I still fire up Quake 1 single player more often than Quake 2 though. Quake 1 makes up for perfect 5-minute-time-wasting moments.

      Since Doom 3 had to be nuked, multiplayerwise, in limiting the players to 8 to don't strain people's systems too much, I heard rumours that Quake 4 would at least bring that ammount back to a sane 32 players. Rumours though.

      While a game with 8 players can make great games, you are either limited to (imho, very boring) deathmatch, or something alot more complicated (think of the gametypes in Splinter Cell).

      I hope that Quake 4 will bring some good multiplayer mode, and if the focus will be on single player content, it will need lots of improvement of how the current scripting/mapping is done : Doom 3 still had a very basic (as in, not too extensive)but also complicated process to create a singleplayer map.
      In the end it were still the basics of the Q1 engine that were being used, allthough it rocks that you don't have to compile maps anymore.

    5. Re:I always thought by Greyfox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Quake I with the Team Fortress or Navy Seals mods was really great. The Navy Seals mod had the best weapon feel of any FPS I've ever played. I liked the plain Quake I weapons a lot more than the Quake II ones as well. Especially the grenade launcher -- that one's always been my favorite :-)

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    6. Re:I always thought by FreakyLefty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Quake 1 was a bit meh for single player - superb multiplay, but not great otherwise. Q2 seemed to go a bit the other way, pretty good single player, but that was about it.

      Quake 3 on the other hand had a great multiplayer and the engine was taken to a whole new level for single player games. Even Wolfenstein, if you ignore the annoying zombie bits...

      --
      Strength through redundancy and over-design
    7. Re:I always thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the Quake 3 engine had the best physics and networking code of all id games so far, and that's what's most important for third-party mods imho. Doom 3 was a network gaming disaster -- I bought it solely on the chance that a Weapons Factory might be developed for it (after WFA eventually died out) but it's just too ugly, slow, sloppy, and cumbersome to serve the fast-paced gameplay of WF.

      Here's hoping Quake 4 has Quake 3 style network prediction perfected, and decent physics system that doesn't try to be pretentiously realistic, at the same time not overtly arcadey either.

    8. Re:I always thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say that Enemy Territory is the peak of id engines. It offered a lot of improvements in networking that didn't exist in Q3A, but were added to a handful of mods by hand late in the life of the engine. It also offered a lot of improvements for map-making, and its developers at Splash Damage are responsible for all of the improvements of q3map2 that make maps compiled for the engine look even better.

    9. Re:I always thought by LadyLucky · · Score: 1

      You've always got to remember that Doom 3 is more about showcasing the engine rather than producing the best program. Licensing that sucker is what really makes them money, not Doom 3 sales.

      --
      dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
    10. Re:I always thought by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      Single-player - I don't know. I haven't really enjoyed any single-player FPS that much. I always buy them for multiplayer.

      Multiplayer - Classic Quakeworld is still my favorite. God I miss the Canal Zone QWTF map.

      Q3F and now ETF are some of my current favorites, although they're not quite as fun as classic Q1.

      The thing I miss most about Q1 - Explosion sounds. Explosions in every Quake game (and also the UTs) since then have been WEAK. Q1 rocket/grenade explosions would shake half my freshman year dorm building with the speakers I was using back then. :) And simultaneously detonating 6-7 pipebombs as a demoman in QWTF... droool... An incredible BOOM followed by watching your victim fly halfway across the map. :)

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    11. Re:I always thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Annoying zombie bits? Motherfucker, ain't nothing better then Nazi's and Zombies as bad guys.

    12. Re:I always thought by Striikerr · · Score: 1

      I agree! Quakeworld and CTF.. Those were the days! Nothing has come close to the feel that the original Quake had/has. I loved the DM1-DM6 maps.. Then I discovered CTF and all of my free time was gone. As for the sounds, let's not forget the best.. The sounds made when someone was totally gibbed and if a pool was near by, you'd hear the pieces splashing into it. The sounds never got old and I always laughed when it was particularly splashy. A major improvement to Quake was with the show weapon mod (which was later incorporated into the core game). I still load up Quakeworld to get back to my roots.

    13. Re:I always thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IMHO Quake1 (the GL version) is much better

  2. Who said innovation is dead ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny


    i can't wait for Super Mario 54 turbo special edition, Quake 4 is just a stepping stone !

    1. Re:Who said innovation is dead ? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "I can't wait for Super Mario 54 turbo special edition, Quake 4 is just a stepping stone !"

      That might have been funny if you picked on Sonic the Hedgehog instead.

      In other words, compare the first 3 Mario games to the first 3 Quake games.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  3. One of my pals... by PsychicX · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of my good (internet) friends is a programmer on Quake 4, and I know a few other guys on the Activision tech team and such. The story is a continuation of Quake 2, but you can expect Q3A style multiplayer awesomeness as well. It's going to be a great game.

    1. Re:One of my pals... by PsychicX · · Score: 5, Informative

      I forgot to mention that they've made a lot of heavy modifications to Doom 3's engine. It's not like a Doom 3 mod. There's been seriously major changes just in the technology...I won't be specific since I don't know exactly where NDA boundaries lie, but the Q4 engine sounds like it stands to be even more powerful, capable, and beautiful than Doom 3.

      And it'll be less dark from time to time. That's always nice.

    2. Re:One of my pals... by betaguy9000 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Hey, thanks for reading the article and summarizing it in a few sentences.

    3. Re:One of my pals... by John3 · · Score: 1

      Excellent...although I have Halo/Halo2, and Unreal Tournament (all Xbox) I keep going back to Q3Arena on my PC for multi-player gaming.

      Looking forward to 3....2....1....

      FIGHT!

      --
      "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
    4. Re:One of my pals... by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      I don't know exactly where NDA boundaries lie

      Well, your friend had better hope that they lie the other side of whatever he's told you. Assuming that they do, you can tell us everything you know. Assuming that they don't, you probably shouldn't have said this much...

    5. Re:One of my pals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would that be because the graphics quality of Q3A rivals the low resolution low texture low quality crap the Xbox outputs?

      I'd be nostalgic for six year old PC technology if all I had were an Xbox, too.

    6. Re:One of my pals... by John3 · · Score: 1

      No, it's mostly because I can load up a Q3A game in about fifteen seconds while connecting to Halo 2 on Xbox Live usually takes five minutes (or longer).

      --
      "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
    7. Re:One of my pals... by PsychicX · · Score: 1

      AFAIK everything he's told me is not NDAed. But I don't feel like dancing with the line.

    8. Re:One of my pals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is Apoxol working on Q4?

    9. Re:One of my pals... by Taladar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess if you could spoil the game with telling people 5 sentences before they play it wouldn't be good enough to play anyway.

    10. Re:One of my pals... by FidelCatsro · · Score: 1

      Hm , in that case . Do you or your freind have any idea if they will be bringing out a linux port of the binarys anywhere around the release date. It would be great to have a linux native version on the CD , its using a modified Doom 3 engine( as is my understanding) so im sure there is some hope of this.

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    11. Re:One of my pals... by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not just that - even things like it being based on the Doom 3 engine rather than the Quake 3 one *may* be NDAd (yes, that was in the article, but it's an example of something that could be under an NDA)

      I've worked on projects before where even the *existence* of the project was under NDA - I literally can't tell you what the project was about. (At the other extreme of course, there are open source projects.)

    12. Re:One of my pals... by PsychicX · · Score: 1

      As a guess (i.e. I do not know), I'd say that a Linux port is likely...eventually. Near the release date? As if that ever happens.

    13. Re:One of my pals... by FidelCatsro · · Score: 1

      It would be nice to have it on the CD and labeld on the box as such, Linux gaming could really use the boost of another big title with full linux support.

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    14. Re:One of my pals... by KillShill · · Score: 1

      actually thats in stark contrast to a recent interview with Raven (the developers).

      they stated that they have changed very little of the engine since it was already very versatile.

      i can't remember which interview it was or if it was even online.

      if someone knows which, please leave a comment.

      --
      Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
    15. Re:One of my pals... by Snaller · · Score: 1

      I forgot to mention that they've made a lot of heavy modifications to Doom 3's engine. It's not like a Doom 3 mod.

      You mean its not all going to be dark?! That one can actually see things? That it might actually look a bit like, say, Unreal Tournament!? Wow, can't wait for that.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    16. Re:One of my pals... by lunar_legacy · · Score: 1

      since I don't know exactly where NDA boundaries lie,

      You mean your friend made you sign NDA before giving you this information?!!

    17. Re:One of my pals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, Raven announced that Quake 4 was using the Doom 3 engine even before Doom 3 was released. In fact there wasn't anything mentioned in that article or by the original poster that I hadn't already read in their message boards well over a year ago.

      Yeah it could in theory be under an NDA, since anything at all about a project, or even the very existence of a project can fall under an NDA, but that's a pretty unimpressive point to make.

  4. dark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No prizes for guessing which game engine it's based on.

  5. Not Brown?! by Chaos_Thoery · · Score: 5, Funny

    Quake not dark and brown? Blasphemy!

    1. Re:Not Brown?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I expect to see the "muddy brown palette-like textures" modification then

    2. Re:Not Brown?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're DOOMed!

  6. links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    heres the link to the officail page if you want to check it out
    http://quake4.ravengames.com/

    http://www.meinherz.net/

    1. Re:links by northcat · · Score: 1

      Raven Games? Isn't quake made by Id Software?

    2. Re:links by dejavudeux · · Score: 0

      The previous Quakes were, but Raven has been granted permission to produce Quake 4.

  7. Diversity? by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Funny
    we have a lot of diversity throughout the entire game

    Just what we need; a politically correct multicultural FPS!

    1. Re:Diversity? by conteXXt · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't worry Reverand.

      They will be there, they'll just be portrayed as aliens (yes illegal ones)

      --
      The truth about Led Zep should never be told on /. (Karma suicide ensues)
    2. Re:Diversity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they finally bowed to the pressure of the GNAA. Long live the GNAA! Of course, the nigger demons will have bigger dicks, I mean guns, than their white counterparts. I miss the GNAA.

    3. Re:Diversity? by l0b0 · · Score: 1

      ObQuote: "I guess it would be more politically correct to kill the women and the minorities first."

    4. Re:Diversity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So we can gib people of all races, ethnicities and sexual orientations?

  8. They should do a sequel to Quake 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Quake 1 had by far the most engrossing atmosphere I've ever experienced in a video game. Just that sense of hopelessness. The environment just felt dark, hostile and uninviting.

    1. Re:They should do a sequel to Quake 1 by grolschie · · Score: 1

      Quake1 was awesome gameplay-wise. Quake2 as ok. Single-player lost my interest fast. However, nothing will beat the old classic game "Blood" for multiplayer gameplay. Was perfect in the gameplay, but pretty offensive in content though.

  9. Cooperative mode needed! by cmburns69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cooperative mode makes "single-player" games better!

    I'm not a solitary gamer, and as such, never make time to play single player games. However, if I could have my wife (and/or our friends) play with me, it would make the game much more appealing!

    I understand the difficulties in providing content that is achievable by both single and multiple players, but that's why I pay for games-- for innovation!

    Am I the only one who thinks like this, or are there other people out there who have been disappointed by the lack of a coop mode in most games?

    --
    Online Starcraft RPG? At
    Dietary fiber is like asynchronous IO-- Non-blocking!
    1. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Funny

      However, if I could have my wife (and/or our friends) play with me, it would make the game much more appealing!

      I think you have gotten swinging and gaming confused here.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by shreevatsa · · Score: 1

      You should try Counterstrike.

    3. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by shreevatsa · · Score: 1

      To be more specific, Counter-Strike Condition Zero.

    4. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doom defined what 'deathmatch' is. The lack of multiplayer functionality and features in Doom3 is an insult to the name DooM. id had a cool engine and wanted it to sell so they used the name. Just the name, not the plot line, characters, or game features. It wasn't until an expansion was made that we see the infamous double-barrel shotgun. CLICK-CLICK... BOOM!

      I want my deathmatch, doom style, and the ability to get in the game with my m8's and blow crap away.

    5. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Contrary to the grand parent poster, I hate playing with human opponents (you always get hit by the moronic "n00b!", "we're so elite!" and "camper!" bullshit).

      Is there AI version of CS?

    6. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you want good co-op games you can play with your wife, you can't go wrong with Bioware. The Baldurs Gate series in particular is great for playing with chicks... the ability to pause the game at any time is great for those who don't have the highly developed fast-twitch mousing ability :P

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    7. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Janitha · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You might want to check in with Serious sam, just a funny game with a ridiculously insane (in a good way) engine. Wonder why that engine never kicked off...?

    8. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by shreevatsa · · Score: 1

      I don't know what you mean. I've only played Counterstrike Condition Zero.
      It allows you play with other bots as a team, against the terrorists as a team. Meaning that you are commander of a bunch of bots.
      You can also start or connect to a server, and play with zero or more humans on either team.
      Is this what you wanted?

    9. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Nosferatu+Alucard · · Score: 0

      yea, it's called Condition Zero.

    10. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1

      Please. They're 12, get over it.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    11. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      After a while it gets boring to get banned from servers because of "camping". And I thought that hiding well and taking out your enemies by stealth was way smarter than a full frontal assault on your enemy? It sure works better, but then you get banned.

    12. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Iffy+Bonzoolie · · Score: 1

      Also because girls have such tiny bladders. I'm like a camel when playing games.

      -If

      --
      Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!
    13. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by mrmojo · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What makes you assume his wife is any worse at the game than he is? I play diablo II still with my wife, and I die more than she does.

      I certainly agree with the need for more coop multiplayer. Teamwork can be far more fun than winning at the expense of others. Last night she said (somewhat ironically) "Isn't it great how diablo brings us together."

    14. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by 88NoSoup4U88 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Aww, I almost forgot about Serious Sam.

      So true that it's strange that engine didn't take off : It wasn't too advanced, but with it, also came a lower licensing price.

      The one thing that rocked was the ammount of enemies at the same time on-screen.
      Heh, I'm getting flashbacks of millions of screaming headless-madmen running at me in a closed-off valley :)

    15. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      Ditto! I really enjoyed coop mode...! That's probably why I like CTF (and UT) now---team wr0k.

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    16. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Doomwizard · · Score: 1

      I could not agree more.

      Doom without good multiplayer is really missing the boat. I cut my FPS teeth on MP Doom/Doom2 back in the good-ole BBS days. Shotgun3.wad anyone?

      D2Legacy is a nice flashback http://legacy.newdoom.com/downloads.php/

    17. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Janitha · · Score: 1

      Memories of ..aaa...aaaaa...AAAA....AAAAAAAAAAAA... boom

    18. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by lysergic.acid · · Score: 1

      Yea man, I haven't seen any FPSs with really good co-op gameplay since Duke Nukem 3D. I'm still waiting on Duke Nukem Forever, but it's taking a really long time...

    19. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless your wife doesn't like boring-ass roleplaying games. Then I guess you're going wrong, aren't you?

    20. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cause serious sam, though all technologically wowie, is butt-fuckin' ugly.

    21. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by seezer · · Score: 1

      Man. how many times did i hear 'is there any fucking FPS with coop mode?' from friends and myself while having some "oldschool" (speak: leet) lanparty sessions.The end of this is always the same. We all install "SeriousSam the second encounter". The game is not really that good, but even si(lly|mple) "don't think, just shoot" is soo much fun with friends jumping around ...

    22. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by 88NoSoup4U88 · · Score: 1
      *chuckling on the floor with laughter*

      Yep, that's the one :)

    23. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by malkavian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      All I can say is Guild Wars.
      The girlfriend enjoys the game as much as I do.
      Can be played single player (with henchmen to bulk out a party) or co-op.
      A great solution to Co-Op games. Have a peer, if you haven't already.

    24. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Skrybe · · Score: 1

      You ain't the only one. I don't see why more companies can't at least take the same approach as Serious Sam. Exactly the same maps, exactly the same goals, nothing that *needs* co-op players. But hell! You want to play co-op then get some friends in there and play.

      They could have done the same thing in Doom3. Just let a friend spawn within a few feet of you on the map. Set it so you can't trigger the exit points unless they're in there with you. Give the monsters some percentage more health and tadah! Basic co-op multiplayer.

    25. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "Am I the only one who thinks like this, or are there other people out there who have been disappointed by the lack of a coop mode in most games?"

      I concurr, I think thats what made the Serious Sam games so popular at my house...

      but I thought that quake4 was going to have coop?

    26. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "And I thought that hiding well and taking out your enemies by stealth was way smarter than a full frontal assault on your enemy?"

      There is a difference between hiding in one spot every single round hoping to get kills from unsuspecting rushers and hiding here and there when you hear multiple footsteps coming your way or if you are last man and waiting for your chance to finish the objective/single people out for a takedown.

      I know for myself (long time game hoster and admin) that I don't mind someone being stealthy, or hiding here and there, as long as they finish the objective or at least try... just remember that there are usually 15+ other people who have died and are waiting to play the next round....

      I don't know which one you got banned for though obviously :)

    27. Re:Cooperative mode needed! by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      Check out Seriously! the official fansite for Serious engine games. About the only Serious engine game I can recall making a small dent was Nitro Family. It got pretty mixed reviews.
      There is apparently a Serious Sam 2 on the way, along with a couple other Serious engine games.
      And uh, I think we can just ignore Deer Hunter and Bird Hunter 2003...

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
  10. Finally, ... by *themotterfukker* · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... the name quakenet will make sense again!

  11. Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... or its just the same game we've already played, with nicer moving pictures.

    Just once, i would like to see an FPS multiplayer online game that takes into account good animation and movement. I want to see cool stuff while i play, not just run around and see others running simply with silly guns we've all played with a thousand times already. Bring more stylized movement into the game, more theatrics and less of the old "run and hop" movement.

    1. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by ezzzD55J · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Bring more stylized movement into the game, more theatrics and less of the old "run and hop" movement.

      I think it would become boring quickly, if it's just eye candy and doesn't add to the gameplay. Counter-strike isn't much to look at but has good gameplay, and that is the reason it's still popular.

    2. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have a look at Unreal Tournament 2004 then. It's got good movement animation and ragdoll physics for corpses, but the taunt animations are what give it life.

    3. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by asscore · · Score: 0

      counter strike is lame. good gameplay my ass.

    4. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by ilyaaohell · · Score: 1

      What a spectacularly utilitarian opinion! It doesn't add things to the gameplay, but it adds things to the EXPERIENCE of playing the game. If you haven't seen a well-presented game like the newest Prince of Persia in action, go download some video clips and tell me that the pretty animatioin doesn't add to the experience.

      I would be amused if, when it comes to films, you had the same attitude about the special effects, saying, "I don't care if it looks really cheap and amateurish, eye candy add nothing to the plot." While that may be true in some sense, the overall experience of a movie like Spider-Man would be ruined if the character's flight through the city looked like an action sequence from the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers.

      --
      UNIX: A computer user is defined as a programmer. WINDOWS: A computer user is defined as a consumer.
    5. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Coryoth · · Score: 1
      Bring more stylized movement into the game, more theatrics and less of the old "run and hop" movement.

      I think it would become boring quickly, if it's just eye candy and doesn't add to the gameplay. Counter-strike isn't much to look at but has good gameplay, and that is the reason it's still popular.


      On the contrary, I think it could make all the difference. Some of the best parts of Doom3 were the animations and movements of the imps climbing walls and ceilings etc. Now imagine if creatures, characters, and so on, had some understanding of the physical environment and moved accordingly.

      I don't mean ducking behind a pile of boxes, I mean using fluid animations to leap over piles of boxes instead of skirting around. I mean having the imps able to climb walls all the time. There's lots that could be done here to make character and monster movements more dynamic, varied and interesting, thus making the environment more immersing. All of this is, of course, very hard. Plenty of scope for improvement though.

      Jedidiah.
    6. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by m50d · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, you can really judge from video clips. Seriously, I prefer the original unreal tournament to 2003, because it performs a little better and the extra polish of 2003 doesn't add anything to the gameplay, it's just distracting.

      --
      I am trolling
    7. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by ilyaaohell · · Score: 1

      You're changing the debate towards the issue of "performance". The original poster mentioned nothing about this. Besides, aside from the needs of more elaborate graphical effects which you're bringing up, more fluid animation is not much of a system drain.

      --
      UNIX: A computer user is defined as a programmer. WINDOWS: A computer user is defined as a consumer.
    8. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by m50d · · Score: 1

      It's not just the performance though. I seriously find the detailed walls and fancy weapon flashes distracting. A wall is a wall is a wall as far as gameplay is concerned, so I don't want it to be distracting me.

      --
      I am trolling
    9. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by ilyaaohell · · Score: 1

      Ok, you're still missing the point of the original poster here. It doesn't seem to me like he was talking about graphics, and I certainly wasn't talking about graphics. My point was in the presentation of the game, particularly relating to the animation. As another poster pointed out elsewhere in these threads, it would be a lot more interesting if, instead of monsters strafing around or crouching behind boxes, they would leap over them in fluid motion or jump at the walls and scurry across them towards you. Most FPS games don't have anything even close to this, and are as visually impressive in these terms as FPS games of 10 years ago. Animation-wise, FPS games are some of the most primitive genres around. Hopefully you understand now why I was referring to video clips of the latest Prince of Persia games, and if you don't, watch them and then you'll figure out what I'm talking about. And, just to re-iterate, this has very little to do with graphical special effects. You seem to be confusing animation with graphics. Animation is not useless eye-candy. It is invaluable to the gameplaying atmosphere and entertainment.

      --
      UNIX: A computer user is defined as a programmer. WINDOWS: A computer user is defined as a consumer.
    10. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Chokma · · Score: 1
      Just once, i would like to see an FPS multiplayer online game that takes into account good animation and movement.

      Well, DukeNukem Forever will most certainly have good moves on them strippers. That is, if the game is finished before the models are beyond 60 years...

      I want to see cool stuff while i play, not just run around and see others running simply with silly guns we've all played with a thousand times already.

      I like cut scenes like in Sin or Warcraft 3 - but those would probably be difficult in multiplayer. I think that "not just run around" and "online multiplayer with cool things to watch" are difficult to combine. Of course, they could make Quake5 the MMORPG - Return of the Stroggs, but... that would not be the Quake we know and like.

      Bring more stylized movement into the game, more theatrics and less of the old "run and hop" movement.

      Perhaps the following models will be included in Q5 to improve theatrics and style:

      • Michael "Bad" J. - Pelvic Thrust Taunt.
      • Goatse-Man - Dark Hole of Gravitation
      • George W.B. - Pretzel-Move

      Hm... if only there were a Spider Jerusalem gane.

    11. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by gurumeditationerror · · Score: 1

      It's not just the performance though. I seriously find the detailed walls and fancy weapon flashes distracting. A wall is a wall is a wall as far as gameplay is concerned, so I don't want it to be distracting me.

      Maybe it's good training for you to learn to pick out and pay attention to only important information in your vision?
      Kind of like how a pilot only reads instruments that are relavent at a particular moment.

    12. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Staats · · Score: 1

      Try Aliens vs Predator 2, and play as the alien... very cool movement there.

    13. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by mikefe · · Score: 1

      Do you anways have four words in every sentence?

      How about some details instead of your childish response?

      --
      There: Something at a specific location.
      Their: Owned by someone.
      Please make sure your english compiles.
    14. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by LarsWestergren · · Score: 1

      Better bring new gameplay elemenets... or its just the same game we've already played, with nicer moving pictures. Just once, i would like to see an FPS multiplayer online game that takes into account good animation and movement. I want to see cool stuff while i play, not just run around and see others running simply with silly guns we've all played with a thousand times already.

      Id software is the LAST company you should look to for this. They haven't even done it in single player game. For over ten years now they have basically done the same game over and over again, and I think they are the most overrated game company in existance. Ok, Doom3 actually had a few stabs at developing characters and plot... by taking just about everything from System Shock 2.

      Keep you eyes open for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. It just might have what you are looking for.

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

    15. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about cinematics.

      If a player crouches to pick up a gun, i want to see the character pick up the gun like a real person would. I want to see them check it out, reload it, look around. Perhaps they can dive and slide on the floor under bullets to get a gun.

      I want to see more movement. Lean against a wall and look around the corner... run like a mad man, flip, dive on your back, dive on your chest... drop your gun if you take too big of a jump.

      How about a dive and roll? How about seeing two team mates actually give each other their weapons when two players switch weapons.

      How about really good deaths? Rag dolls, broken limbs, severed limbs etc. Have flying bodies actually knock over living players if a body flys into them. Have the player drop his gun in that situation.

      Make the game more detailed.. make it more intense.. more realistic in a movement sense.

      Have players dragging wounded teamates to heal them?

      How about hand to hand combat?!

      How about mixed, hand to hand and weapons.

      Sadly enough i'm an animator/senior artist in the game industry :) Any game execs want to give me the chance? ;)

      Games to be more theatrical. The animations and movements should serve the gameplay, but not at the expense of hurting the "holy shit, that dude just dropped his gun and dove under a desk for cover" wow factor.

      New ideas, new concepts in movement and animation need to be brougt to FPS games, and games in general.

      How about being able to give your teammates ammo during a firefight? When you drop ammo, you see a player toss his teammate some ammo ?

      Some new concepts of controls would be nice. A key combination such as crouch and jump plus a direction make a character dive. How about a pressing jump twice, does a backflip? Pressing D (right) and space does a dive to the side, or a cartwheel. The animations players see can be random. Soemtimes its a cartwheel, sometimes its a dive.

      There is so much that can be done to bring life into the dull world of FPS

      Doom3 wasnt terrible btw. ID did make an effort to have cahracters climb down walls, break through doors. Unfortunately they only used that effect perhaps 3 times in the entire game?!

      And Half life 2 felt like a tech demo just as much as Doom3. How many times did the HF2 level designers need to show off how a stack of barrels blows up ? :) They loved to show off the physics. The game was for the most part realyl good... but far too short. It did get kind of boring. The monsters werent great. HF2 was all about the great Havok physics and level design.

      Doom3 was all about its graphics engine.

      The trick is... graphics do not make a game. (Graphics may sell a game but it does not make a game. After all Street Fighter 3 Third Strike still kicks ass)

      Look at Grand Theft Auto. The graphics suck. But when you first drove around in GTA3 you were loving it. You got out of your car, shot up the gansters, ran people over, smashed hookers with bats. It was new, it was fun. They introduced ideas that made the world more unique and real in a sense.

      All while the shitty renderware graphics engine looked bland with terrible textures, piss poor character modelling... even shitty aiming controls

      But the game was fun and it created an environment that no gamer had ever experienced at that point.

      THAT is exactly what FPS's need to address.... providing the gamer something they havent experienced yet.

      Its possible.

      Look at what Burnout 3 did for arcade racers. That is one amazing ride. Take away the great attention to crashing detail... and its the same as your other arcade racers. Point is... The burnout 3 team went to a new level, they added in crashes that you've never seen in a game. They're histerical, with bullet time. Cars go flying, glass smashed everywhere, traffic jams, tons of destruction....

      DETAIL!

      They reinvented, or shall i say, breathed life into a rather boring genre (arcade racers) by simply adding a new experience to an old game formula.

    16. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Chokma · · Score: 1
      If a player crouches to pick up a gun, i want to see the character pick up the gun like a real person would. I want to see them check it out, reload it, look around.

      I am sure we will see this in single-player environments. But for fast paced shooters this seems improbable. Let's face it: Quake3 is faster than real life. And the high speed of play does not work well with most things like "pick up a gun" because well, at the moment it takes a second to switch a weapon. If we had animations showing the model doing this like in RL, it would take several times longer.

      Perhaps this could work in Stealth Games, where speed is not the most important thing.

      How about a dive and roll? How about seeing two team mates actually give each other their weapons when two players switch weapons.

      This would look great in Quake2 if the Stroggs could do such things. Creeping up on a guard whose face becomes visible as he lights his cigarette with a match... nice level of detail. But in a CTF-Game where you live about 30 seconds between two deaths this would be wasted.

      I think that fast paced FPS could profit from details like the comments by Duke Nukem as he walks by a mirror [or the units in Warcraft2/3]. But I hope no game designer will ever do something like the jump-shout from Q3...

      How about really good deaths? Rag dolls, broken limbs, severed limbs etc. Have flying bodies actually knock over living players if a body flys into them. Have the player drop his gun in that situation.
      Make the game more detailed.. make it more intense.. more realistic in a movement sense.

      I think more realistic movement would be a great thing.

      • Models running up/downhill should loose/gain speed and of course someone who climbs a hill will look different from someone doing a dive int a river...
      • Realistic death: I think we can do without those. In online-FPS which do not tell a story but live from heavy replaying of the same scenes (ie, the same maps over and over), seeing a human turned inside out a hundred times provides very little entertainment.
      • Humor / situational fun: "And when Brian shoot Joey in front of this big statue of lady justice in the main hall, it took a short peek at the scene and gave him a thumbs up - sometimes justice sees things alright."
    17. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by m50d · · Score: 1

      Only for the game though. It's often not realistic. How many walls do you see IRL that have exposed electronics? Especially compared to those that are just a plain coat of paint.

      --
      I am trolling
    18. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      You're right about the speed thing, but i personally feel the speed of FPS multiplayer games like quake should be slowed down to a little more realistic play. It doesnt have to realistic realistic, but more "movie speed"

      I think you could work in a lot of those detailed animations and still retain a very good experience in a 30 player CTF game. I think it would be more interesting.

      Frankly i'm tired of seeing people die every 5 seconds. Spawn, kill someone, then die, repeat...

      If the player had a chance to feel like he was in a world, with a team.... where he had time to see great animation... (fast paced of course) but i think we need to ramp down the speed a little from the spawn, kill, die, repeat game play that multiplayer FPS games have become.

    19. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      *loads map*

      woooo shiney....

      *blam*

      Damn it!

    20. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by zero_offset · · Score: 1

      It isn't nearly as exciting as something like Quake (single- or multi-player), but Prince of Persia has a lot of "extra" animation along the lines of what you describe. On the Xbox version anyway, the disc contains a bunch of "making of" videos and it would appear all of this extra animation is rather expensive to produce. I didn't think it was a very interesting-sounding game, but I picked it up about a week ago (it's now a discounted title, something like $15) and it's actually rather pleasing to the eye.

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

    21. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "but i personally feel the speed of FPS multiplayer games like quake should be slowed down to a little more realistic play."

      Try playing Halo multiplayer, it's like a glacier on valium...

    22. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      well speed is relative. I mean is Hong Kong action films slow? Not at all, but they're full of beautiful movements.

      I think you can have a fairly fast paced game and still be full of great movement and little things that make the experience new.

    23. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "I think you can have a fairly fast paced game and still be full of great movement and little things that make the experience new."

      I definitely agree, what bothers me is when they slow the game down to enhance "realism" ("you can't run that fast in real life and still shoot straight, etc, etc) aka Halo ;)

    24. Re:Better bring new gameplay elemenets... by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      Well there are levels of realism. A shooter could be made as real as running around in an iraqii ground war simulator... Or it could be real as in japanese/hong kong film style movie action.

      It all depends on the style of game you're going for. I'm not not at all saying that doom3 should turn into a realistic/slow moving shooter. I'm saying add in more stylistic movements that compliment a game.

      I get what you're saying though about the realism. It has its place. I'm more so talking about ways to spice up a games experience.

      After all what makes a japanese/HK style action so great? Innovative ideas, choreography and camera work.

      Up until say the Matrix here in the US, hollywood action films featured slow and boring fights. Very drawn out, slow and macho powerful fights that were like 2 guys beating each other up slowly until one finally collapsed.

      Contrast that to todays hollywood action. They've attempted to steal HK/Japan's style and we now see more interesting ideas coming from the younger film makers out there who have been fans of the HK/Japanese films for years.

      Thats not to say Hollywood has done a great job stealing from Japan/HK. They've done a really shitty job of it and its laughable but... they're learning. Its a cultural thing. Our actors havent grown up with that kind of movement and staging. In Asia, its been done for so long and its been done very well often. :)

      So in games... yeah we can all make an FPS now with a kick ass engine. we've proven that. Now its time to bring a new experience to games. And it doesnt have to be HK/Japanese style action. Its just an example. Time to bring the experience level up.

      Doom3's dark and shadowy rooms were excellent. I really liked that feel... It was the rest of the game that bothered me. Having the same old weapons... They only had an alien break through a door once in the entire game. That was the coolest moment and it was never repeated or build upon.

      Doom3 needed work in the action department... but it sure was gorgeous.

  12. Can't wait by Sv-Manowar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think this game will be great, and the people saying it might be like doom3 are part of the problem with doom3. Doom3 wasn't bad, it was just overhyped as the game of the millenium

    Hopefully this game won't be expected to entertain you, run your life, cook your meals and generally rule the universe like Doom3 was

    1. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hopefully this game won't be expected to entertain you, run your life, cook your meals and generally rule the universe like Doom3 was.

      There's no need. World of Warcraft already does all that and more.

  13. HALO 2/ Quake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been waiting for this for a while. Sometimes, while playing HALO 2, you can bring back memories of the good old days in Quake. The question remains though, how are people going to adapt to this type of shooter in 2005/2006?

  14. I know it's cliche.. by capillary+tube · · Score: 5, Funny

    Are the lighting subcontractors in the Quake universe as horrible as those in the Doom 3 universe?

    1. Re:I know it's cliche.. by ZeroReality · · Score: 1

      In all likely hood yes. It probably the same graphic engine.

    2. Re:I know it's cliche.. by Punk+Walrus · · Score: 1

      I just want to know who got the plumbing contract. Gees, 90% of these games have more plumbing running around than I have ever seen in real life. And you can't tell me they're wire conduits, they can't have THAT much wire in the future...

    3. Re:I know it's cliche.. by wplinge · · Score: 1

      The darkest parts making up something like 90% of the surface area...

    4. Re:I know it's cliche.. by tepples · · Score: 5, Funny

      Gees, 90% of these games have more plumbing running around than I have ever seen in real life.

      You've never been to world 7 of Super Mario Bros. 3 I take it.

    5. Re:I know it's cliche.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gees, 90% of these games have more plumbing running around than I have ever seen in real life

      That's part of the industrial subculture cliche
      And you play those games while listening to industrial music.

      To some of us, that does make sense and is quite pleasing

    6. Re:I know it's cliche.. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1
      Are the lighting subcontractors in the Quake universe as horrible as those in the Doom 3 universe?

      We'll never know, since they were all tragically killed by a highly implausible combination of physically impossible events during the introductory movie at the start of the game...

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    7. Re:I know it's cliche.. by CaptnMArk · · Score: 2, Funny

      At least the flashlight they provide doesn't run out of juice every 30 seconds.

    8. Re:I know it's cliche.. by boredman · · Score: 1

      I never understood the lighting situation in the Splinter Cell series of games, either? I mean, if the games' locations are supposed to be so ultra-secure, don't you think they'd, oh, I don't know, install a lot of lights? ;)

  15. Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm hoping to have my massive 32/64-player Quake 2 DM level, Aquaphobia, done before Quake 4 comes out. I only been working on it (on-and-off-but-mostly-off) for the last six years.

    Aquaphobia Project Page

    After I get done with Quake 4 single player, I'll start working on some new levels for that game.

    1. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only been working on it (on-and-off-but-mostly-off) for the last six years.

      You need to find yourself a girl, mate.
      -oblig Johnny Depp quote

    2. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      You need to find yourself a girl, mate.

      Yeah... But I was working in the video game industry during those six years, so my options were pretty limited.

    3. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow ur fat

    4. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Funny

      What do you expect when someone has a large frame and weighs 355 pounds? Fortunately, I been working out at the gym to trim down and carry more muscle weight.

      I'm actually smaller than my Dad's mother who own a pet bull (that's a bull, not a puny pit bull). Even the bull was afraid of her, especially when she got belt out. :P

    5. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear they have women at places other than work now!

    6. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I hear they have women at places other than work now!

      Maybe you're not familar with the video game industry. You arrive at work when it's dark and leave work when it's dark. The only time you run into a woman is when you buy lunch at Taco Bell, and they don't want to date you because you work for a video game company (i.e., you plays game all day, you're not really working). BTW, the company prohibits outside relationships that could interfere with work. Which is why I left after being there for six years.

    7. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      Well, convert it to Q4 when it's done, and then perhaps touch it up to use the new engine.

      I've done something like that to Doom -> Q2 maps many years ago, and it was a matter of a completely different way of describing the world. Sectors which could take any shape, be non-convex or even disjoint had to be cut into a number of convex polygons -- negating the world and making it 3D are easy steps. Compared to this, converting a set of convex polyhedrons to another one should be a matter of a simple script -- I guess someone will write one in days after the engine is released.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    8. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Have you seen the pic on his site? He's never going to find himself a girl. Morbid obesity is VERY unattractive.

    9. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by drsquare · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      What do you expect when someone has a large frame and weighs 355 pounds?

      How about getting a smaller frame and losing 200 pounds? Come on, in this modern age, with all the knowledge we have about nutrition and physiology, there's no excuse for obesity. None at all.

    10. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Come on, in this modern age, with all the knowledge we have about nutrition and physiology, there's no excuse for obesity.

      Unfortunately, the modern age knowledge is biased towards an average height person with a small frame at about 150 pounds. When I was born, I weighed 11 pounds and the doctor told my Mom that was she was going to have twins (this was before ultrasound became widely available). Modern age knowledge doesn't know how to handle variations from the norm except to claim that such people are abnormal and therefore unhealthy.

      I'm working hard on trimming down and building muscle mass, but that's not going to change my skeleton size. My skeleton is twice as large as my Dad's and three times as large as my Mom's. My grandmother was bigger than me and she kicked the bucket at 83. Go figure.

    11. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Morbid obesity is VERY unattractive.

      So is the Governor of California if you are using the Body Mass Index (BMI). After working out at the gym for almost two years, I gained 30 pounds of muscle while trimming down. Call me whatever you want but I probably have bigger muscles than you do.

      Besides, when you are dating through the church, the ladies look at the heart and not physical appearance. Maybe you should check out 1 Samuel 16:7 in the Bible: "But the LORD said to Samuel, 'Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.'" Go figure.

    12. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by Darkman,+Walkin+Dude · · Score: 1

      the company prohibits outside relationships that could interfere with work

      Christ I hope the pay was worth it... Seriously though, leaving aside the utterly atrocious intrusion on your privacy and the consequent ill effects on your health and well being, how would they track something like that? If you come into work less than chipper, how do they know you don't have a hangover, or your dog just got run over or something? What, have they got mandatory psychological reviews and drug testing on a weekly basis? The corporate control culture can be taken too far, and it sounds like one PHB has the emporer syndrome something wicked :D I bet he strangles people just by raising his hand and breathing heavily too...

      Oh and the very best of luck with the working out; one of the slashdot sages put it best, I think... That shit ain't easy! :D

    13. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Morbid obesity is VERY unattractive

      Meanwhile, insulting guys who aren't even there to kick your ass is just gorgeous.

      Appearance is relatively unimportant compared to other human characteristics - google Gainsbourg and Bardot, and ask yourself if you could do better. Grandparent displays considerable humour and taste - witness the below post. You, in contrast, have presented yourself as a moaning characterless bitch with no awareness of anything beyond your own cock. But hey, maybe I'm wrong; perhaps you're not what you seem. And even if you are, it's not irrevocable - I'm sure there must be girls out there who appreciate guys who get their kicks beating up on people they'll never meet...

      --
      Karma is karma; I'm only stealing back that which was rightfully mine

    14. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      The corporate control culture can be taken too far, and it sounds like one PHB has the emporer syndrome something wicked :D

      He told me his way or the highway, and I said adios. He wanted me to commit professional suicide by not going to school part time (I been learning programming and getting certified in networking) and spiritual suicide by not going to church activities. I heard senior people were leaving faster than the temps over the last year.

      I bet he strangles people just by raising his hand and breathing heavily too...

      Nah. If he doesn't like you, you get unexpected verbal warnings that he will later use to create written warnings. You know he's after you once he starts writing you up for "insubordination". He'll back off if you start screaming to HR about getting lawyers involved. I took the exit since my salary was already capped at $16/hr, and that's how much I can get as an level-entry PC technician.

    15. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure there must be girls out there who appreciate guys who get their kicks beating up on people they'll never meet...

      I'm sure there are girls who like Anonymous Cowards just as well. ;)

    16. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I misread your post. I'm starting to get thin-skinned with people who have nothing better to say commenting on my weight. I would like to have more comments on Quake 2 level instead. :)

    17. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      I'm sure there are girls who like Anonymous Cowards just as well. ;)

      I'm grateful for every day that she still does.

      Dang, there I was trying to defend you and suddenly the anonymity of my cowardice gets called into question...just to clarify, post 12465043 was directed sniffily at drsquare in defence of creimer. Maybe it came across the wrong way...

    18. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      If you saw my follow up post, I apologized. I did read it wrong. I was hoping to get more comments on my level than my personal attributes. I did get more traffic in one day on website than I had all last month. :)

    19. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by fraudrogic · · Score: 1

      wtf is wrong with you people? Are you dumbfucks so perfect that you have to rag on a guy's weight? "In this modern age"? WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? People come in all different shapes and sizes, maybe that's what their DNA tells them to look like....dipshit.

      --
      I only mod up parents of "mod parent up" posts...
    20. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      Don't mind the retards. I like Slashdot, but in the last years it has filled with people with... um... way too much spare time.

      Words on a screen my friend. Remember it.

    21. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Please explain how your large skeleton, or a bias in modern technology forces you to carry around 150 pounds of excess fat? Sounds like you're looking for excuses to not lose weight. It's easier to blame things you're not in control of than it is to take control of your life.

    22. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Appearance is relatively unimportant compared to other human characteristics

      That sort of morbid obesity is usually associated with a very fucked up personality. That person probably has severe psychological problems that cause him to turn to comfort eating and sitting at the PC all day. Also it's more than just appearance, imagine the smell. When's the last time you reckon he was able to wipe his own arse? Or have a bath?

    23. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Please explain how your large skeleton, or a bias in modern technology forces you to carry around 150 pounds of excess fat?

      A larger skeleton allows a person to carry more weight. This is basic physics: you build a bigger airplane if you want to carry more people. (You could make the seats smaller to fit more people, but you can't do that when the average American is merely obese.)

      But even if I lose 150 pounds and ripped with muscles from head to toe, some small-minded people will still point out that I'm still technically obese. Even Arnold (the Governor of California, BTW) is considered to be obese according to Body Mass Index (BMI).

      Sounds like you're looking for excuses to not lose weight.

      If that was the case, I wouldn't bother with the Slim Fast diet to go from 400 pounds to 325 pounds in one year. Or go to the gym for four days a week for two years to gain 30 pounds of muscle weight while trimming down. Or take various vitamins and supplements, and drink cases of bottled water, that I'm going to pee out anyway. Or to spend my time educating small-minded people who insist on carping about my weight even though they will die from some form of self-induced death (e.g., smoking, drinking, having unprotected sex).

      It's easier to blame things you're not in control of than it is to take control of your life.

      You definitely don't know what you're talking about. Maybe I need to read some Vogon poetry to help you understand. :P

    24. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      That sort of morbid obesity is usually associated with a very fucked up personality. That person probably has severe psychological problems that cause him to turn to comfort eating and sitting at the PC all day. Also it's more than just appearance, imagine the smell. When's the last time you reckon he was able to wipe his own arse? Or have a bath?

      Now you're just being plain rude. Which is probably the whole point of your posts anyway. But, for the record, I'll just humor you instead.

      Not only can I find my arse but I can wipe it as well. I take showers twice a day (I do live in California), use soap, deodorant, and colonge. I do use computers every day since I'm a professional software tester, I have a certificate in programming, and I'm certified in A+, Network+ and Microsoft Certified Professional (I need to take only two more exams before I'm a Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator). I normally don't eat at my computer since I don't need food particles grunking up my keyboard. Yeah, I'm a basket case for morbid obesity. Go figure.

    25. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by drsquare · · Score: 0, Troll

      A larger skeleton allows a person to carry more weight.

      How does this force you to sit on your arse eating food and not doing any exercise. No matter how big your skeleton is, a bullfrog chin is simply unacceptable, unless you have an extra 'chin' bone that we don't have. Hint: if it wobbles, it's fat. Not big-bones. Not your skeleton. Fat. In fact, a bigger skeleton should stretch the fat out, making you look leaner. The fact that you manage to both have a big skeleton, and to have excess fat hanging off it, means you must eat a hell of a lot.

      But even if I lose 150 pounds and ripped with muscles from head to toe, some small-minded people will still point out that I'm still technically obese

      What, they're going to measure your height and weight and apply an equation to determine that you're technically overweight? It sounds like you're making excuses not to lose weight. I'm not surprised, fat people often do that.

      If that was the case, I wouldn't bother with the Slim Fast diet to go from 400 pounds to 325 pounds in one year.

      So you got a fraction of the way and gave up because you liked your food too much? That's OK, not everyone has tenacity and determination, or enough self-motivation to keep going and going, even when it's hard. Just open a tub of ice-cream and congratulate yourself for at least trying.

    26. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Wow, Microsoft Certified, that's impressive. I bet you can beat Minesweeper and everything. And perhaps even change the screensaver. Go you!

    27. Re:Aquaphobia for Quake 2 by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just open a tub of ice-cream and congratulate yourself for at least trying.

      Why don't you work on your negavity? They say mean people live shorter lives. So I'll probably outlive you and I'll still be happy. :P

  16. let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by dioscaido · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Doom 3 was a poor game. It amounts to hours and hours of running down cramped hallways, encountering monsters that other than visually don't really differ much. It gets really boring really quick.

    The game feels more like one long technology demo, than something built to provide compelling entertainment. And even being a technology demo, the results are less than impressive. The vast, lush environments in HL2 make the cramped environments in Doom 3 look quaint in comparison, even if the Doom 3 engine, with its real time lighting, is ultimately more advanced. I wonder if Doom 3 can even handle environments that have the same scope as HL2. The portions of Doom 3 that take place on the outside of Mars look really bad. Hell ends up being a bit more impressive, but it quickly reverts back to the familiar small enclosed envirnoment.

    Hopefully the Quake 4 team will be able to make a more compelling game.

    1. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Personally, I felt that Doom III was a fine game, and an excellent example of high technology... to each his own!

    2. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      If they showcased a Doom3 sequel and Quake4 anonymously, I think most people would struggle to tell the difference between one another. They are both dark, space/hell marine FPS. Maybe a slight variation in weapons, but that's about it.

    3. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by ZeroReality · · Score: 1

      Quake takes place in a maze so count on plenty of narrow hallways.

    4. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Doom 3 was a poor game. It amounts to hours and hours of running down cramped hallways, encountering monsters that other than visually don't really differ much.

      Hey now, you saw the system specs for the game. If they made the hallways any wider or the monsters any more diversified, then it would have brought any computer down to a crawl.

    5. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by vitalyb · · Score: 1

      It is funny that "Serious Sam" that WAS planned as "engine-demo" turned out to be a great game, while the highly hyped Doom3 turned to be a fancy but not playable demo.

    6. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Serious Sam" that WAS planned as "engine-demo" turned out to be a great game

      Uh? This is a matter of opinion. Serious Sam it's a very very very very very very very very repetitive game.

      highly hyped Doom3

      Hyped? Half life 2 was highly hyped, Daikatana was highly hyped. When was hyped Doom III?

    7. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by JFitzsimmons · · Score: 1

      How totally wrong you are. Doom 3 can do outdoors just fine. Don't belive me? Try the video:

      http://www.pcgamemods.com/10560/

      Like what you see? Grab the files for yourself and run through the map.

      http://www.pcgamemods.com/10685/

      --
      Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. -Anonymous
    8. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe it depends on how you define hype, but I saw a lot of Doom III hype.

      "Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion"

      I'd say that Doom III qualifies. Especially as people were planning their computer upgrades around it and herding into the belief that it's going to be a good game despite never having played it or seen it in action.

      I don't get why you say HL2 was highly hyped and Doom III was not, I'd say the hype levels were pretty equal between them.

    9. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by m50d · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It *is* a technology demo. Id makes much more by licensing the engine than selling the games, so the main point of the game is to show off the engine.

      --
      I am trolling
    10. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by mdew · · Score: 0

      Uh? This is a matter of opinion. Serious Sam it's a very very very very very very very very repetitive game.

      I think that was the whole idea of Serious Sam :) very fun to play anyways.

      --
      http://www.fanboy.co.nz/adblock/
    11. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only difference here is that hype surrounding Doom 3 was a lot more drawn out than the hype for HL2. No one even knew HL2 was coming out until some time before the alpha leak. We have known that Doom 3 was coming since the E3 ATi demo a few years back. And people gossipped about it from then until the day it was released. At least the guys at Valve were able to keep the lid on it. ID was the unfortunate victim of the impatient gaming "machine". Gossip and hype is like a snowball. The longer you let it roll down a hill, the bigger it is going to get.

    12. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      FarCry handles large, lush environments much better than HL2. HL2 was very fun, but not all that visually impressive in scope or scale. The textures were generally ugly, such as the rubble texture. FarCry's models don't look as good as HL2's, but the environments are easily grander in scale.

    13. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Except in this case id specifically said that they were in it to write a game this time. That's what makes it sad; they failed so miserably.

    14. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey hey Fitz!
      Looks like now you have the +1 karma bonus! Congrats!

    15. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's about as outdoors as Taco's basement.
      What about real outdoors with terrain and plants, and roads... and vehicles to drive on those roads.

    16. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure it can do outdoors, but not "just fine".

      At an average of 12fps on a 9800 pro, in single player with no action none the less, it is just shit. Did I mention that map was fugly as hell?

      That simply isn't worth playing.

      Face it, doom3 is limited to enclosed spaces with three or four monster's/npc's on the screen at once. There's not much you can do with a game like that, and it shows in the highly repetative, unimaginative, and mediocre gameplay.

    17. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by svallarian · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, but upgrading in preparation for doom 3 made HL2 run soooo much better :)

      --
      I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
    18. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Out of curiosity I tried both the FarCry and HL2 demos on an Athlon XP 2400+ with a Radeon 9200. I know it's not cutting edge, but I'm not going to upgrade a computer every other year when I don't play games. FarCry was completely unplayable as in 5-8 FPS whenever a more complex scenery was in sight. HL2, OTOH, was smooth on both levels the demo lets you play. Doom3 also ran fine, but it was too dark and the spotlight thing got boring after 5 minutes.

    19. Re:let's hope it's better than Doom 3 by JFitzsimmons · · Score: 1

      Who are you?

      --
      Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. -Anonymous
  17. Woo Lights! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like Q4 will be DooM3 engine with... LIGHT! I thought the Mars surface areas looked the coolest in D3 and which there was more of them... sans the low-atmopheric presure asphixiation bit.

  18. The Heart? by bleckywelcky · · Score: 2, Interesting


    The Heart - blatently stolen from Natural Selection's hive.

    1. Re:The Heart? by Arctic+Fox · · Score: 1

      Both of which were stolen from Contra on the NES.

      Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A Start was the key to finishing that game.

      http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~tdemores/images/fun/c on tra/contra809.gif

    2. Re:The Heart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      blatently stolen from Idsoftwares logo. What a shame.

  19. Continuation of Quake2 by KrugalSausage · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The best thing about quake2 in my years of playing it definitely has to be the movement:

    Strafe jumping

    double jumping

    sliding around on ice and up ramps

    and just the sheer speed of it all --if you can master it.

    I don't expect Q4 to have these fun aspects though because I just can't imagine models like this : http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/611/61 1006/440Building_B_Marines06_1115438005.jpg moving around so unrealistically like in q2.

    1. Re:Continuation of Quake2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "and just the sheer speed of it all --if you can master it."

      Sheer speed? In my opinion original Quake1 was much faster in multiplayer.

    2. Re:Continuation of Quake2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Cube is probably faster than all of them....about as fast as Doom(1/2) if you remember those.

    3. Re:Continuation of Quake2 by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      How about the railgun? (strange that they've mentioned lightining gun (from Quake1) and not railgun... hmm...)

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    4. Re:Continuation of Quake2 by yakumo.unr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I actually think Q3's the fastest, I've seen 3500+ ups done with default physics ;op

      quake has fastest weapons, and probably run speed.

      q2's really quite sluggish once you get used to q1 or q3, but it really was superb fun for years.

      i really didn't like q3 movement, speed, weapons, net code, anything till I really figured it out, and since i've found the previous games relatively unplayable.

      Q3's movement is superior in accuracy and speed to q2 imo, the only thing it lacks (unless you play promode) is the double jumps. The rest it's better at, and it adds plasma jumps and plasma climbing to make up for that :)

    5. Re:Continuation of Quake2 by Konowl · · Score: 1

      I always found Quake 2 to be the slower of the Quake series....

    6. Re:Continuation of Quake2 by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      and just the sheer speed of it all --if you can master it.

      Yes, the movement speed was very high with strafe jumping - however the weapons were molasses dipped in liquid nitrogen, and then thrown in a giant pit of tar for good measure. In the game you could almost fall faster than your rockets would fly, pathetic. Q2 seemed to be a response to all the whiners who bitched about how the rocket launcher was overpowered in the first Quake. What they didn't realize was that nothing was wrong with the rocket launcher, it was that the rest of the weapons sucked dick, with the exception of the lighting gun.

    7. Re:Continuation of Quake2 by tricops · · Score: 1

      Then you obviously never played it with fast hook enabled... Q2 FreezeTag with fast hook got pretty insane... I miss those days..

      --
      (\(\
      (^v^)
      (")")
      This is the cute vorpal bunny virus, copy to your sig or runaway, runaway in fear!
  20. Havoc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could you ask him why they won't the use the Havoc engine in it? I was just blown away by the realistic physics of HL2.

    1. Re:Havoc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come on, do you believe anything? Jeez!

    2. Re:Havoc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it was worth it. They really should license Havoc for all FPS games.

    3. Re:Havoc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The physics in Doom3 were just as good. Even if you weren't throwing shit around all the time.

  21. Summing up the last 5 years in graphic development by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
  22. Are you kidding? by game+kid · · Score: 1, Funny

    He puts the er in gamer baby, yeah!

    I mean, grr in...ah, forget it...

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  23. Oh, just what we need, another FPS by Control42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously, i wonder wyh these games enjoy such great success. I remember getting my first one, Alien Breed 3D, back on the Amiga. I played it for a couple of hours, then switched back to something more interesting. Over the years, I've had a couple of goes at about ten or so more modern ones, but apart from the graphics, nothing ever changes. No FPS has ever been able to fascinate me like i.e. Civ I-III or a good RPG.

    1. Re:Oh, just what we need, another FPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      RPG's are for wieners

      Yeah, I just hate those ragheads blowing our troops up.

    2. Re:Oh, just what we need, another FPS by KtHM · · Score: 1

      I agree, though the first one anyone actually managed to talk me into playing was Halo. Not bad, but nothing that great, either.

      FPS's have the benefit of being the games that are on the bleeding edge of technology - HL2, D3, etc. Beautiful, beautiful games. Most FPS's (HL excluded) have no plot. Or they make a kind of half hearted attempt to make one. You know that's something they threw in at the last minute.

      Why would I want to play a game that I'm not invested in? Why should I care? Oh look, another alien, and I'll turn around and there's one behind me, kill him, yawn. As opposed to an RPG, which has a plot, which makes you care about your characters, when you finish an RPG you've done something.

    3. Re:Oh, just what we need, another FPS by garett_spencley · · Score: 1

      There are exceptions.

      FarCry has a pretty cool plot and keeps you interested in the game.

      I never played the original Half Life but Half Life 2 has a pretty cool plot too and is a combination of a puzzle game and a FPS.

      And even if FPS games really are the same old rehashes over and over .. sometimes a really good concept can stick. I know there's people who hate FPS games in general and find them boring .. but there's obviously a lot of people who love them too.

    4. Re:Oh, just what we need, another FPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and maybe you should stop criticizing FPS games when the first game you played was Halo. There are dozens of FPS games out there with amazing plots.

    5. Re:Oh, just what we need, another FPS by StueyGriffin · · Score: 1

      "... when you finish an RPG you've done something." Uh, no you haven't.

    6. Re:Oh, just what we need, another FPS by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      RPG's are for wieners that liked dungeons and dragons. Have fun "managing your resources". I wish I could be a 10th level elfen-demon like you. You sir, are my new personal hero.

  24. Re:Cool Beans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    By diversity, he means the enemies will come in Asian, Black, Arab, etc. The demons will of course use affirmative action to recruit more minority demons.

  25. personally... by duhasteifersucht · · Score: 0

    I hope they focus on the single player mode more then the multiplayer mode. Even though the multiplayer from Quake 3 was fairly good, i always thought it to be off the tone of Quake's 1 and 2. Quake 2, being one of my favorite games, i feel that utilizing the Doom 3 engine will kick ass for single player, but with the multiplayer it wont be able to match the Quake 3 Arena scope, due to the amount of players possible. (The doom 3 engine for xbox currently ownly supports 4 players.) If a utilization of both Quake 3's multiplayer system and Quake 1/2's incredible single player, while focusing a bit more on single player then multi, it will be the game everyone is hoping for.

    --
    cha-ching. money baby... money
  26. Boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Isn't anyone else dead bored with the way computer games are now? The only innovative game I can think of in recent years has been Grand Theft Auto. Is anyone really hanging out for another first person shooter to throw their money away on? The only difference between first person shooters is usually the guns, that's hardly enough to keep me interested anymore. We need something that is original & most importantly FUN, games have gotten too serious and boring.

    It's a sad day for games when I actually have to try and force myself to play through top rated titles like doom 3.

    1. Re:Boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sigh ... how about focusing on, say, the high levels of skill demonstrated by the top players. I've been playing Q3A for years, I still find a lot of serious competition. Thanks JC and Id, you guys rock!

      If you're bored, really, you have only yourself to blame.

    2. Re:Boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GTA London: 1969 was so much better than these newer ones.

    3. Re:Boring by m50d · · Score: 1

      You're just not looking. For a start, the sims - almost entirely new concept.

      --
      I am trolling
    4. Re:Boring by Arctic+Fox · · Score: 1

      Sims came out when? 2000? 2001?

      But your right. People playing as real people who are themselves boring is a game-play innovation.

      Not that I didn't waste hours on that.

    5. Re:Boring by Yaro · · Score: 0

      Maybe we're just getting old. I was 15 when I started playing to FPS games. Gee, it's ten years away now. Games have grown into an industry, and we've eventually grown into adults.

      Not that I don't like playing, but if FPS games were just to happen, I doubt I would get as much hooked as I was back then.

      Besides there were a great potential for innovation at the time. Nowadays with the current technology, I feel like there are only rooms for improvement left.

  27. yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i love quake so much. i can't wait to play more quake with new quake art.

    oh yes indeed. i need that quake.

  28. What happened to them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I miss the GNAA

    You mean something has happened to them? Now that you mention it, I haven't seen them posting recently...

  29. GameSpy? by Devil · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    GameSpy? Are they still in business?

  30. It does't matter if your dark or light.. he hee by stephenisu · · Score: 2, Funny
    Light this, dark that..

    These guys did the design work for the Jedi Knights games right? They know all about dark sides and light sides.

    Good choice for a game that has an amazing lighting engine I would imagine...

    --
    Sigs? We don't need no stinking sigs!
  31. Binary diversity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We have some dark areas, and we have outdoor areas that are brighter.

    Wow!! They have both bright AND dark areas! You can't beat that binary diversity! A pinnacle of innovative game design, I tell you.

    I've heard rumors that your character will also be able to move both left AND right, but shhh, you didn't hear it from me, I don't want to get sued for releasing trade secrets.

    1. Re:Binary diversity by justins · · Score: 1
      I've heard rumors that your character will also be able to move both left AND right, but shhh, you didn't hear it from me, I don't want to get sued for releasing trade secrets.

      Apple is making Quake 4? What?
      --
      Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
  32. Gamplay by zkn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Am I really the only one thinking: "screw the lighting and effects, I'm turning them off anyway" For me Quake is about gameplay not graphics. Even when running the lowest possible graphicsmode(Wich I alwas do) it still fun. How are they going to change the gameplay? more open areas in the standart mappack isn't going to do it. People moved away from quake to Counter Strike because of the different and more tacticle gameplay. Will Quake4 try to be a little more tacticle and less "chaotic"? How is it different gameplay wise, that's the important question. Not if whether brighter or darker.

    1. Re:Gamplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lowering the details doesn't help you lightingwise in doom3 because it does not use lightmaps. Afaik all it does is reduce the size of the textures and the level of detail of the models. Probably it saves some polys on some level geometry as well or removes some of the bumpmapping but as far as lighting is concerned it will stay dark because that's the way the engine is supposed to do it. Previous games rendered light levels according to some kind of "prerendered monochrome map" for all level geometry surfaces (unless my memory fails me again :P).

    2. Re:Gamplay by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Am I really the only one thinking: "screw the lighting and effects, I'm turning them off anyway" For me Quake is about gameplay not graphics."

      If they have actual shadows in the game, no, I'm not turning them off. Quake isn't just about game play, it's about environment.

      Truth be told, I'm baffled as to why everybody's making generalizations based on this story.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    3. Re:Gamplay by zkn · · Score: 1

      I'm not genrelizing based on the article just pointing out my own subjective opinion. I run quake3 in graphis so horible most people can't even see it's quake when i play multiplayer. For singleplayer sure environment lights graphics and the lot are all needed. But multiplayer is where quake2 and 3 where best to me. And in multiplayer I don't need shadow, in Counter Strike maybe. But then only because the gameplay is extremely slow during tournament play. Quake's more about speed, or rather used to be with Counter Strike dominating the gaming scene quake3 gamers have started being more and more "tacticle" camping mapareas and securing armourspawns. But to me that's just plain wrong. I may not be the average player(Dropping all the effects and such) but surely multiplayer will be the win/lose condition for quake 4. Doom 3 died in 2 days or less because people coun't stand playing multiplayer. It was boring, slow, without consept and extremely slow(Both due to the graphics and the gameplay). Quake 4 will without doubt be played by the fanbase but will it live as long as Counter Strike? That's what I'm interested in.

  33. jeebus, what a dumbass by delong · · Score: 1

    Yeah like uh, the game is gonna be, like, innovative and stuff because, like, its gonna have light AND dark areas, so like it will be different and stuff.

    Cripes, can one get any more inarticulate without being a deaf-mute?

  34. i dunno.... by Rabid_Llama · · Score: 0

    i dont reaqlly think that ravensoft will be able to deliver the same experience as ID

  35. Re:Cool Beans! by game+kid · · Score: 1

    I have a dream...that one night, this engine will load up, and live out the true meaning of its code: "We hold these lines to be self-commenting, that all beasts are created equal."

    I have a dream that one day in the black mazes of Quake the sons of former players and the sons of former cheaters will be able to sit down together in a game of Deathmatch.

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  36. I think id should break the mold this time by craXORjack · · Score: 5, Funny

    Id software really needs to do something different this time. Their old recipe is getting boring. I would like to see Quake 4 in a more festive environment like maybe a circus with lots of clowns and bright colors everywhere. Instead of shooting weapons that explode monsters, maybe the first person character could walk around and give flowers to people. Or casually listen in on the conversations of strangers in the crowd until they can tell when one of them is going to go to Hell like a Catholic or a Jehovah's witness. Then you could score points by proselytizing them to evangelical christianity and saving as many of their souls as you can before the game ends with the Rapture! But look out for those evil mooslims in the crowd or they may blow you up before you finish God's work. Family fun for everyone!

    --
    Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
    1. Re:I think id should break the mold this time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, have a character like Diamanda Galas where you can shreak them to death - or at least thwart opponents attacks by doing so.

      That would be nice - though, not too good on the ears.

    2. Re:I think id should break the mold this time by ultramarweeni · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Quaker IV?

    3. Re:I think id should break the mold this time by lysergic.acid · · Score: 1

      no, what they really need are some titty bars you can do into with strippers who show you their booby-tassles when you throw cash at them, and pigcops, and jetpacks, and flying lizards, and octopuses, and holo-duke!

    4. Re:I think id should break the mold this time by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Guy to pointy haired boss: This time we will make something innovative, kick-ass. See, we have this awesome idea of having a single guy, the player never sees of course, first person we call it, running around and shooting at things, very innovative, never done before, entirely new genre. It runs around and kills things with various weapons, see the idea behind it, awesome. And yes there also is the abilitoy to have different weapons, grat isnt it. We call it Doom5...

    5. Re:I think id should break the mold this time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you're looking for Clowner strike
      http://www.clownerstrike.com/

  37. Re:Summing up the last 5 years in graphic developm by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Funny

    It appeals to the under-aged crowd that's not supposed to be playing this Mature-rated game. No doubt that some government body will try to ban this game while using Duke Nukem 3D as an example of nipple artwork.

    I wonder if they will have the easter egg from Quake 2 where two Strogg chicks were blowing a Tank Commander on a throne. Hmmm... Gotta love it when a game appeals to the little boy (or dike for the chicks) in us.

  38. What an excellent idea!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Now that is just an excellent idea, son.

    Why don't you go and propose it to the ministry of love... eh homeland security that is, and ask for a grant.

    "Patriotic christian games for the family". That's so brilliant that it can't fail.

    1. Re:What an excellent idea!! by mick129 · · Score: 1

      He didn't said anything patriotic. It's very scary that christian == patriotic in so many peoples' minds...

      --
      Move along, no sig to see here.
  39. Bet nobody saw this coming by UnholySauce · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Gamespy posted an article about a computer game?
    Holy cow, that's some breaking news.

    --
    Cloud and Tree - not just an immature webcomic, but a VISION.
  40. Hunh? by vought · · Score: 1

    "I think we have a lot of diversity throughout the entire game. We have some dark areas, and we have outdoor areas that are brighter. I think how diverse everything is will really go a long way. We didn't really set out saying, 'This game is going to be dark, this game is going to be light' -- we set out to make a cohesive environment where you go through different extremes and you'll see a bunch of different stuff."


    Sounds an awful lot like Marathon 2 to me....

    1. Re:Hunh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "I think we have a lot of diversity throughout the entire game. We have some dark areas, and we have outdoor areas that are brighter. I think how diverse everything is will really go a long way. We didn't really set out saying, 'This game is going to be dark, this game is going to be light' -- we set out to make a cohesive environment where you go through different extremes and you'll see a bunch of different stuff."

      Sounds an awful lot like Marathon 2 to me...

      Er, it's your most generic description of an FPS ever , and you think it 'sounds alot like Marathon 2...
      How about you go checkup on yourself ? Fanboy...

  41. quake - the sims? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Now, what I really want is to load my wife's sims world as a quake map... and bust some ass :-)

    Just imagine the carnage! Humiliation!

  42. erm by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1

    How the hell are they going to run this on the Doom 3 engine? We already know you need a freaking super computer to run it, how the hell are they going to do HUGE areas full of monsters? The thing which rocked about Quake 2 was you'd comeout of some annoying jumping puzzle to find ten guys staring you in the face with shotguns and some bastard enemy mixed in with them just to make it worse.

    From what we've seen the Doom 3 engine can't do huge areas with the current technology.. so we lose the Quake feel and get another tech demo?

    --
    I like muppets.
    1. Re:erm by josefkk · · Score: 1

      Q2 was quite demanding back in the day, too, you know - atleast if you wanted a high level of eyecandy. I remember how there was only one person in my class who could run it properly, so we all gathered at his place (sometimes upwards of ten people or so) just to watch and (maybe!) get a chance to play.

      --
      I think therefore I am. Therefore, I think, I am.
    2. Re:erm by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's kind of weird, but -lots- of what the doom3 engine -can- do wasn't in the game. If you look through the SDK, there's plenty of stuff that seemingly didn't make it into the game (like support for vihicles, etc.) They could've made it FPS for part of the game, then have the player ride a tank like in UT2004, then fly around, etc. Dunno why they didn't do it.

      Oh, and the engine can support huge open maps (just like Team Arena terrain maps).

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    3. Re:erm by KillShill · · Score: 1

      next gen video cards and cpus.

      does that satisfy the requirements of your question?

      --
      Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
    4. Re:erm by Paraplex · · Score: 1

      "From what we've seen the Doom 3 engine can't do huge areas with the current technology"

      I remember the very brief scenes involving... was it a tram? i don't know... but I remember a few scenes in doom 3 where there was a visible amount of real poly outdoors without a massive frame rate drop... I remember thinking that "hmm given they can DO these outdoor scenes, this corridor stuff must be a deliberate design strategy"

      'plex

  43. multiplayer mode: [CP] CustomTF rules :-) by natmakarvitch · · Score: 1

    the most recent evolutions of the Quake 1 server are awesome. in CTF ('Catch The Flag') mode those servers convey the usual coherency and ultrafast heartbeat of the Quake 1 universe, a helluva set of maps... and graphism is very pleasant with modern clients. check http://customtf.com/, soon with a ready-to-use client package

    1. Re:multiplayer mode: [CP] CustomTF rules :-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quake1 CTF was what finally snagged me into a "hardcore" gamer. The grappling hook was the greatest invention ever!

      I would love to hook someone at the other end of the hall. The hook drew ~5hp a second from them, while they run around trying to find me.

      Doing tarzan trying to get past enemy defenses to get the flag, then bolting back to your base with 10 rocket launcher toting enemies behind you was exilerating.

      Then they went and changed the grapple and gravity in Q2 and Q3.

  44. Run 'n gun gameplay is obsolete by Urusai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...as Doom 3 so aptly demonstrated. We need more games like System Shock 2. I want cool 3D tech and great art, but really, deathmatch and rocket launchers are boring and inexcusable in this modern age.

    I hated Quake 2 and Unreal; I didn't even bother with Quake 3 and UT (or whatever it is now). The fact that the developers are claiming they loved Quake 2 doesn't raise my expectations very high.

    1. Re:Run 'n gun gameplay is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Doom 3 aptly demonstrated that id offering no real multiplayer experience for a single player game is bound to spell disaster for the title, when it's nothing more than a simple FPS experience that requires a video card that costs at least $200 to play decently.

      FPS games, as is demonstrated every day by the large swaths of people playing tactical shooters on PC and XBox, are doing quite fine. Half-Life 2 secured enormously high praise, and it was little more than a technology demo for the gravity gun.

      So what you've done is demonstrate that you don't like these games, not that they are obsolete. And id showed that they cannot make particularly entertaining single-player games, which we all realized years ago. The number of people that play System Shock 2 these days probably doesn't even compete with various mods for Q3.

      Quake 4 will probably be unimpressive. I bothered to RTFA after a while, and noticed that its screenshots look depressingly like Doom 3. Doom 3 had pretty uninspired artwork to go along with its boring gameplay, and the multiplayer architecture of the engine so far has left me unimpressed about the possibilities of quality mods.

      What's sad, is that until Unreal 3 is released, the best mods available on linux outside of running wine will be for UT2k4, ET and Q3A. Lots of great mods will target Source because Doom 3 is a big disappointment, and we'll be left in the cold.

    2. Re:Run 'n gun gameplay is obsolete by Doppler00 · · Score: 1

      Unreal Tournament 2004 is actually pretty good. Much, much better than any multiplayer id has ever done.

    3. Re:Run 'n gun gameplay is obsolete by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Quake 2 was OK as far as it went, but for me the peak of multiplayer FPS was still the original Quake, when the "clan" idea was first taking off and there were some excellent deathmatch maps where genuine tactics and communications were necessary to win a team game.

      The problem with a lot of the more recent incarnations, at least those I've played, is that while huge, wide-open maps give a much more visually impressive game for the first ten seconds, they also mean lots of wandering around without seeing anyone, followed by a frantic game of shooting with every gun there is (since you picked five of all of them up since the last fight anyway), followed by the same again. There's no concept of controlling space and resources/power-ups, and team tactics basically come down to "two of us versus one of him is probably 1-0 to us". Booooooring.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:Run 'n gun gameplay is obsolete by Pxtl · · Score: 1

      Bull. Play the Serious Sam games, or Halo II - run and gun gameplay is alive and well, its just that Id never was that hot at it. We just gave Id a pass because we hadn't seen better yet.

      Carmack should fire all his game designers and just stick to making engines for Raven or some other team to design for. Still, I liked Quake 2 - although I found the gameplay somewhat sluggish compared to old Doom. And the new UT games aren't anything like a typical run&gun - the hybrid of classic FPS gameplay with large-scale tactical warfare Battlefield/Tribes gameplay comes out into a new approach that I absolutely love.

      Remember, there is such a thing as a game that is _too_ involving. System shock gameplay is good for people who want an engrossing, involving game, but for a working stiff who gets his gametime in hour-long snippets, a game with simple gameplay and easy-to-learn rules is much more popular. Many people don't have the time to invest in learning the intricacies of an RPG, and just want fun. Frequently, games that focus on "RPG elements" often end up just letting those elements get in the way (remember Daikatana?).

      Plus, remember that there are two major seperate approaches to combat in FPS games - run&gun and stealth. While stealth has it's appeal, there's something to be said for just letting the adrenaline flow. Stealth is a lot harder to do in multiplayer too - stealth games usually rely on making the enemies much weaker than the player, and often also rely on lots of "die-reload" gameplay. This sort of thing doesn't translate as well to multiplayer without careful craftsmanship. Rocketlaunchers, as has been demonstrated countless times, have been proven fun in both single-player campaigns and multiplayer frag-fests.

      What I want to see is more developments in individual gameplay - most action FPS games do exciting things with teamplay games, but still fall back to dull deathmatch for individual achievement. Compare to some classics like Critical Depth (look it up), or good old fashioned "king of the hill" gametypes, and there's much more to be done. Some way to make a 32-player game actually have some personality besides mindless carnage or team-v-team would be cool.

  45. The Art and Design of Quake 4? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pfft just you wait for the Art and Design of Duke Nukem Forever.

  46. Hot dog, we have a wiener! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RPGs are for wieners, FPSs are for hot dogs.

  47. Physics ? by Rykky · · Score: 1

    What I want to know is how is Raven going to do the in game Physics ? Will we get Quake2's fantastic movement/jumping feeling ? The thing I love most about Quake2 and what still keeps me playing it (ActionQuake) is exactly that :)

  48. Prey? by aCapitalist · · Score: 1

    Haven't heard anything about Prey in years. If you remember, the Prey engine was supposed to be uber-advanced, but then just died off.

    Now it looks like 3DRealms is going to do a Prey game using the Doom3 engine.

    DNF anyone?

    1. Re:Prey? by tono · · Score: 1

      Actually Prey has been around longer than DNF, in fact Prey was originally designed to be the Quake killer, as in Quake 1. Then shortly thereafter it fell off the face of the earth with the last screenshot some sort of blocky waterfall with a teradactyl like creature in it.

      --
      cheese logs keep my wang warm at night.
  49. It's not Doom3: The Quake4 Mod by DeanMeister · · Score: 1

    I'm willing to bet they'd do a HELL of a lot of work on the Doom 3 engine. It's not like "Hey, we'll make some maps and models on the doom3 engine and call it quake 4." They're putting alot of effort into making sure that the engine will be stable with alot of enemies and open areas i'm sure.

    --
    Society never gets more or less violent, the definition of violent just keeps changing.
  50. Mr. YAGGIE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only blowing that'll be done is through my ass-hole when I see Yet Another Great Game Introduction Engine saved by community-built maps and mods.

  51. Outdoor Lighting by tony1c · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is using the Doom 3 engine, correct? One of the problems with that engine is that it didn't support (or didn't use) any kind of indirect lighting (radiosity, etc.) in order to calculate all the lighting dynamically. That just doesn't work well in outdoor environments. Is Q4 going to support some kind of indirect lighting for those outdoor areas? A static/dynamic hybrid might be interesting -- precalculated radiosity with real-time dynamic lighting "layered" on top.

    1. Re:Outdoor Lighting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quake? Outdoor areas?

      I think you have the wrong game here.

  52. Paradise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can go to any well-stocked and organized gross store, next to the canned bread; you will find women in a can! Fuck lightly with butter.

  53. Damn here's quake 4 and I still play roguelikes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the 20th anniversary of rogue/moria, and I'm still playing derivatives (angband). Don't think I want to hear about Quake 4!

  54. Duke 4-Ever comments vaporware ? by dbcad7 · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Can't beleive it, you guys are slacking.

    Duke3d was a great game, not because of special machine crushing technology, but becasue it also had good puzzels and a thematic story aproach. I can only hope that the real reason that 4-Ever is taking 4-Ever is that they are creating a story, and not just a technology showcase.

    --
    waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
    1. Re:Duke 4-Ever comments vaporware ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't normally post to a games article on /. because it's like discussing Unix on a housewife's recipes forum. They are not hardcore players and they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

      Seeing however, that you are a true DN3D fan, I will let you on on this. When some magazine went over to 3D Realms to interview them (along Human Head) for the upcoming title 'Prey', Georges Broussard showed a small playable part of Duke Nukem Forever. That's it. No dates, no promises, no info. The game exists however.

  55. If you don't like FPS please be quiet... by space_jake · · Score: 1, Interesting
    I honestly see the same comments on every thread about a FPS game. I loved Doom3 it got a little repetitive at points admitted it was a great game. It had its faults in the multiplayer arena but I knew going into my purchase that I was buying a single-player game. I had UT2k4 so I wasn't in need of a revolutionary new multiplayer game. Half-Life 2 as well was a great game as well. Kept me very entertained and CS:S and HL2:DM are still loads of fun.

    Now honestly if you're going to knock this title and every other FPS that came out in the last 2 years please save us your 'Wisdom' or go flame DNF for not being done yet ya unoriginal bastids!

    Raven won't botch this one they reliably create great games, but they always seem to time their releases concurrently with something truely awesome that blows them out of the water. (For instance Heretic 2 and Half-Life came out roughly the same time)

    1. Re:If you don't like FPS please be quiet... by drsquare · · Score: 1

      I'll tell you what, when they stop releasing dull, unoriginal, uninspiring FPSes, I'll stop complaining about them.

    2. Re:If you don't like FPS please be quiet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like FPS games. I've played an unhealthy amount of Q3A: Urban Terror, Q3A: True Combat, Enemy Territory, Instagib, TFC, Q1DM, TF, Q3F, AA, and a lot of SP FPS games.

      But I thought Doom 3 was boring, uninspired, and suffered from a limited-supply of incredibly bad art and nothing resembling a gameplay. And from the looks of the Q4 screenshots it's going to follow suit.

      HL2 was somewhat enjoyable. It became incredibly tedious at times, and suffered from being both constructed by too many diverse teams of mappers, and being too easy. Definitely better than Doom 3, but the two reinforced that with the time it takes to create game-content that exercises the capacity of modern engines (5+ years), there just isn't a lot of time/interest for improving gameplay.

  56. Harumph by btnheazy03 · · Score: 0

    If it wasn't designed by iD software, it ain't a Quake game. Simple as that. I sense extreme floppage.

  57. Three great first person shooters by UnConeD · · Score: 5, Informative

    1) Thief. Note that Thief 1/2 are considered better than Thief 3. True stealth gameplay: outsmart guards, be a ghost or knock out everyone, leaving them lying around in compromosing positions for the Lord of the Manor to find. As little violence as you want. At highest difficulty level, the game forbids you from killing anyone.

    2) Deus Ex (1, not 2). Near-future nanotech conspiracy fun. Ignore the comparisons with The Matrix. Very high replayability, it's a game about making choices, both practical as ethical. Even on your 5th way through you'll discover new ways to achieve your goals. The locations are great too.

    3) System Shock (2 is on Home of the Underdogs, 1 might be hard to get running). Another shooty RPG, like Deus Ex, but on a creepy spaceship. Amazing atmosphere, great sounds (the monkeys are after me), fascinating story, easy to use interface too.

    Each of these takes a while to get in to, but once you're there you're hooked. And they are all fun. The graphics are a bit dated, but this is only noticable for the first 5 minutes.

    And if you really don't like FPSes anymore, try Fallout. Awesome post-nuclear RPG: if you're tired of Wizards, Elves and Dwarves this is for you. Great sense of humor too. Doesn't treat the player like an idiot.

    Each of these is several years old, but still refreshing and unique.

    1. Re:Three great first person shooters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd also mention Far Cry, which is visually stunning and neither dark nor claustrophobic like Doom 3 and its likely sequel Quake 4. More screenshots here.

    2. Re:Three great first person shooters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i'd also like to recommend Chrome, a great FPS that no one has heard of. works in the same way as Deus Ex, except a bit more shooting and a bit less talking.

    3. Re:Three great first person shooters by LarsWestergren · · Score: 2, Informative

      Seconded... I really liked Thief 3 and thought it was on par with the earlier ones though.

      If you are trying System Shock 2, try downloading the System Shock Rebirth mod which creates higher quality meshes for many objects/opponents but doesn't change gameplay. Very nice.. except maybe the midwife which I thought was scarier in the original, and has gratuitous bare brests in the remake.

      The only game that has scared me so much I had to sleep with the lights on. "Babies must sleep... babies must rest... why do you disturb us?"

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

    4. Re:Three great first person shooters by Rimbo · · Score: 1

      Oh man! The monkeys! THE MONKEYYYYYSSS!!1

      And then there are the Midwives...

      Man, I'm going to have nightmares all night. Thank you very fucking much for reminding me of that game. Asshole. ;)

    5. Re:Three great first person shooters by Formula420 · · Score: 0

      Awesome, man, your taste in games couldn't be better. You have just listed four of the best games/game franchises in history. SS2 was/is incredible and after reading the post about improved mesh rendering, I think I will give it a try. Deus Ex, I wish they hadn't made a sequel, the original was soooooo good. And Thief, how do you say it? fuggedaboutit. Anyhow, thanks for refreshing my memory of awesome games. Everyone should read this post and find all of the games mentioned

  58. Re:Damn here's quake 4 and I still play roguelikes by Anthony · · Score: 1

    Angband roolz. Quake is great too. I played a lot more 'bands than Quake though. Quake 1 - 100 hours, Quake 20 - 20 hours; Quake 3 - 3 hours. Angband - 250 hours, Zangband - 100 hours. Is there a pattern here? I have to restrict my 'band playing to semester breaks though ;-)

    --
    Slashdot: Where nerds gather to pool their ignorance
  59. Assault mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The one thing _I_ would really want to see in the new Quake is something similar to Assault in Unreal. Simply fantastic stuff.

  60. No one makes bad games forever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  61. Sugarplumb, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are you acting like the man posting with my slashdot account? C'mon, you said I can wear the pants this time. oh-please-please-please? I'll sleep on the couch, and give you back my Diggler; just let me wear my own pants and give back my slashdot account.

    Do I hafta lick you anusii clean? What? And hour after you eat mexican food too? OK...I'll do it for return of the slashdot account... Keep the pants.

  62. Does it really matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another FPS, another typical "kill 'em all" shooter. Booyay!

    Considering that VE day is tomorrow (as I'm sure you're all aware, being the intelligent folk you're), what I think would be a cool (IMHO) game is one where the objective isn't to kill as many people/monsters/etc as you can, but to find ways other ways to solve the differences - with killing as a last resort - ie., killing someone would give you a penalty of some sort. Perhaps team puzzles or more dialog between opponents/teams.

    Just a thought. ;-)

  63. Quakers by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    But aren't Quakers pacifists?

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  64. Bah by oGMo · · Score: 4, Insightful
    One thing to note about Raven is that they're very art-focused. They concept out everything -- maps, levels, weapons, monsters, and so on.

    I wish someone would hire some architects to design the levels, not your run-of-the-mill artists. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks level design has been subpar for years now. Bring back levels that are well-designed by people who know how to make them and think broad architecture, not what this scene or that scene will look like.

    We play these games, you know---interact with them, explore them---we don't just watch them.

    --

    Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    1. Re:Bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, what exactly do architects know about designing levels for games? Do you think your typical architect would even find mapping for games interesting? Do you think that's equivalent to what they do? Do you think that they have any of the skills required for designing good gameplay?

      There was never a time when architects built game maps to go back to. Probably most of the maps you've liked were designed by people that delivered pizza or wrote software.

    2. Re:Bah by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      I don't think I'm the only one who thinks level design has been subpar for years now.

      It's always been hit or miss...and Raven's no exception. There were several times in Jedi Knight II where I said "fuck it", turned on noclip, and zipped through to the end of the level to skip the "wander around until you flip the switch to open the door to turn the lever" bullshit.

      I wish someone would hire some architects to design the levels

      Real architects don't necessarily make for really great levels. Bungie made a great deal out of how Oni had levels designed by architects, and while they were all okay (helped by directional finder telling you where to go) they weren't spectacular.

    3. Re:Bah by davew2040 · · Score: 1

      Interesting you should say this, considering that most new buildings these days are large glass or brick cubes.

  65. ATTENTION: SECRET INSIDER INFORMATION by drsquare · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't ask how I know this, and don't tell anyone about it, but the word on the grapevine is, this new Quake 4 will involve moving around a corridor in a first-person perspective shooting things with fantasy guns.

    1. Re:ATTENTION: SECRET INSIDER INFORMATION by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can add this important detail:

      The corridors will be mostly brown.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    2. Re:ATTENTION: SECRET INSIDER INFORMATION by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Yep, and another well-kept secret is that the brown walls will be lit with the latest super-graphics-card-powered hardware-enabled lighting and shadow technology, thus forcing anyone wanting to play the game to spend 300+ on the latest and greatest video card.

      Which will be a waste of money, since by the time the game actually ships, you'll be able to buy the same card for half the price, and you'll know that the game actually requires something even more powerful anyway.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:ATTENTION: SECRET INSIDER INFORMATION by rob_squared · · Score: 0

      But...will you need a flashlight?

      --
      I don't get it.
    4. Re:ATTENTION: SECRET INSIDER INFORMATION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for ruining it. Daikatana secrets were leaked early too. I was quaking, fragging mad! It was doomed. My Hercules card could handle it though.

  66. Wow! by Primal_theory · · Score: 0

    I heard they have alot of innovations in this version:

    Realisticly Nipple-ly Nipples
    Light Places
    Dark Places
    Light and Dark Places
    Guns, that SHOOT!!!
    Realisticly Nipple-ly Nipples in Light and Dark Places
    AND
    You can moove left and right, and if you press the big space bar, you jump!!!

    --
    Your skill in reading has increased by one point!
  67. What about the music? by WormholeFiend · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who's going to score this game? NIN, I hope...

    1. Re:What about the music? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Trent Reznor did the original Quake soundtrack, which was great in its own moody and spooky way, but I don't think his style would fit the Quake 2 very well.

      Sonic Mayhem did the soundtrack for Quake 2, and the raw feel really fit the atmosphere of the game. I really hope they're doing the Quake 4 soundtrack, what with Quake 4 being a sequal to Quake 2 and such.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    2. Re:What about the music? by Pwned · · Score: 1

      Sonic Mayhem? I was always under the opinion that it was Rob Zombie. Take the lyrics off of Astrocreep, and it sounds exactly like the quake 2 soundtrack.

    3. Re:What about the music? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      It says on the Sonic Mayhem website about the Quake 2 soundtrack that they "produced all the level music for this release". I'm fairly certain Rob Zombie did the intro music, though, the dropship sequence and all that.

      Sonic Mayhem also did the soundtracks for the two Quake 2 mission packs as well as Quake 3 Arena and Team Arena. Oh, and weapon sounds for Unreal Tournament, too ;)

      --
      Eat the rich.
  68. Nice, but will it be FUN TO PLAY? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IMO the secret to Q2's enduring appeal (I've played it through more times than I can count) was that it's a fun game. A VERY fun game. Will Quake 4 be fun? Was Doom 3?

  69. Re:YAFPS. Yawn. by Narishma · · Score: 0

    No.

    --
    Mada mada dane.
  70. quake4 artd & design by Baiken · · Score: 1

    Theres this guy daryl mandryk, his art is so dark... i thinkg he should be in the art team...
    http://www.cgchannel.com/gallery/viewimage.jsp?img ID=36

    dark, very dark, what you think, deserves to be in design or not?

  71. Oh JOY! Another FPS by JohnnyLocust · · Score: 1

    For the love of monkeys! Do we really ... and I mean REALLY need another first person shooter? How can someone even feign interest in an overworked franchise in a saturated market of FPS clones? Screw this, I'm going to go play pong.

    1. Re:Oh JOY! Another FPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Screw this, I'm going to go play pong.

      Now that's great. It isn't an overworked franchise at all. All those pong clones never happened, neither did the holocaust.

    2. Re:Oh JOY! Another FPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for forcing your tedious, typical and uninspired opinion on us all. Please STFU in future.

  72. MOD PARENT DOWN by drsquare · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are no nipples in Duke Nukem 3D. All the strippers have these tassles over the nipples, and they don't take them off no matter how much money you give them. No wonder all the aliens were pissed off.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      There are no nipples in Duke Nukem 3D.

      Seems like every time Congress has an investigation into violent video games, they cite Duke Nukem as a fine example of sex and violence. Maybe it has to do with the Congress people being Democrats and Duke Nukem represents the GOP/NRA card carrying fringe element that's a threat to American society.

      However, if you check out ending for Duke Nukem: Land Of The Babes (Playstation), Dukie pulls a Bill Clinton: he's repopulating the planet one woman at a time in the Lincoln Bedroom at the White House. Maybe that's why GTA has been getting more coverage these days instead of Duke Nukem since the Republicans are in charge. Go figure.

    2. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not true. I remember that there were these statues of Japanese women in kimonos that would flash you if you used the "activate" key on them. Strangely, you could shoot the statues and they would shatter onto the ground.

    3. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Strangely, you could shoot the statues and they would shatter onto the ground.

      That was a new feature at the time. You could manipulate certain items in the world that other FPS didn't have. My favorite was flushing the toliets repeatedly to bug my roommate in the next room. In one early scene, you would find a monster sitting on the top of the toliet behind the stall door. Duke Nukem is well known for it's potty bowl humor.

  73. Uh... what about Quake 3? by DarkEdgeX · · Score: 1

    That article acts as if there was never a Quake 3 released. Everything is from the attitude of "well, what kind of great things await fans of Quake 2 in this new Quake 4?". WTF? I know Q3 was largely a loss for single player, but surely there's some things worth bringing from Q3 into Q4?

    --
    All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
    1. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess the more important question to ask is, "Was there anything in Q2 worth bringing to Q4?" I'd say that the answer should be "No," but the people at Raven certainly seem to disagree.

      Q1 - Good
      Q3 - Good
      Q2 - Second-largest waste of game money that I've ever spent, with Raven's Elite Force taking first place.

    2. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q3 was awesome. It was amazing. That being said, it's also wholly incompatible with a real plot (where "real plot" covers even that found in the original Doom). In that sense, this will be more like Quake 2 than Quake 3; to some degree they appealed to different people.

    3. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by Buelldozer · · Score: 1

      EF1 Multi ROCKED! I spent YEARS playing the clans...

      Fraggers United Forerver Babbeeeeee!!!! :::set phasers to LAG!:::

    4. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by DarkEdgeX · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but maybe that's what Quake's fate should be: excellent multiplayer with no story whatsoever. I know that's the way I felt about the original Quake. Leave the "real plot" crap for DOOM. Quake 3, for all it's failings as a single player game, blew away everything with it's multiplayer.

      Anyways, sounds like Quake 4 is going to be a total wash for anyone even remotely a fan of Quake 3...

      --
      All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
    5. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by Sturm0001 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, good point.
      I play Q3 online with dozens of other players. We use Ventrilo to comunicate.
      http://www.ventrilo.com/

      So I was asking the others, why hasn't a better game than Quake 3 been produced?
      We have seen some nice games; Far Cry, Unreal Tournament, Doom 3, Painkiller.
      Each of these holds the gaming community's attention for about 2 months, then it is back to Q3.

      The others told me that they had tried all these other games, but they always returned to Q3.
      No one had a good explanation. Quake 3 is just better.

      It seems to me that when the game producers produce a game, they had ought to try to produce someting better than the last game, or at least as good.

      Why hasn't a better game than Q3 arrived?

      I think it is because they, the game producers, don't know how.

      Quake 3 Arena's success was a bit of an accident. There was no story at all. Single player was a series of 1 vs 1 encounters with various odd oponents. The graphics were superb. The physics were awesome. The game was entertaining, but was a hi-tech arcade.

      Then evolved the internet.

      Suddenly Quake 3 was a worldwide phenomenon. Networking and computers were judged by their ability to handle Q3 multiplayer. Quake 3 became an important part of our day. I regularly play with people who are in the United Kingdom (sleepless I presume). I am in North Am.
      Q3 gave us the ability to become part of a different universe, one with strict rules of physics, but also fantastic cartoon environment. It was like being a character in a comic book.

      It still is this way. No other game provides the equal experience.

      I assume the pursuit of ever more spiffier graphics has consumed all of the time and money of the game producers. The game producers run out of resources before the game is actually done. There may not be enough resources on the planet to produce a game as good as Quake3 with the graphics of Doom3.

      And, of course, graphics don't matter. Players turn down the graphics regularly. Gameplay counts, graphics don't.

      The cartoon physics of Quake 3 is what is important. Consistent behavior of all the various objects.
      As time has gone by, this object behavior has been scrutinized, critisied, evaluated, and modified.

      It a stunning burst of genious, John Carmack made Quake 3 modifiable by users. A standard user with a standard PC could hope to create maps, models, and even new games with the Quake 3 resources.

      Then came the semi-professional modifiers.

      How should the Quake 3 Rocket Launcher really work? How fast should the projectile fly? How powerful should the blast from the rocket be? What splash effects of the rocket should occur?

      How should the Quake 3 Armor work? How should the various types of armor resist the various types of weaponry? How much armor damage occurs with each strike of each weapon?

      How far should the grenade bounce? How long should the Rail-Gun recharge be? How big and how fast should the plasma ball be? Is there really a need for the BFG at all?

      Days, weeks, months, and years have been spent arguring and refining these concepts. Each successive argument consumes the previous argment, and evolves. Sort of like computer and software evolution.
      Eventually the objects in the game become so argued and evolved that they become real. The objects don't really exist, just as software doesn't exist. But in the minds of people who use these imaginary software objects, the objects are used as if they are real.

      This is real game development.

      Pity the poor game producers who must toil at creating the ever more spiffy and scary looking monster or hallway.

      Quake 3 will remain the best game until a better game arrives.
      That better game will evolve from Quake 3. Which means to evolve in terms of gameplay, not graphics.

      What Id Software should do is to consume, incorporate, embrace, and extend the work of the modifiers who have in

    6. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was just Q3A with Star Trek models. It was fun when I didn't realize that (since I specifically skipped Q3A for Elite Force thinking that Q3A would suck) but without all of the mods.

    7. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q3A is a failure compared to HL or UT in terms of people buying and playing it. It wasn't a "success," as such. Basically what you've described is your behavior and ascribed it to everyone else.

      Don't feel bad, I like Q3A more than UT because the mods for it look better, and I like it more than UT2k3/4 because it performs better, but it's not a better game than UT2k3/4. It's not even a better game than Enemy Territory. It's certainly not as much fun as Instagib, and it's not as mentally-stimulating at Urban Terror or Truecombat. It's not as popular as Counter Strike (which I don't like, myself), and I would say that Q1 actually was better gameplay-wise.

      P.S. I suggest you stop playing video games, since your post seems to indicate a bit of an unhealthy obsession. I don't mean Quake, I mean quit playing video games entirely.

    8. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by AutopsyReport · · Score: 0
      Quake 3 Arena's success was a bit of an accident. There was no story at all. Single player was a series of 1 vs 1 encounters with various odd oponents. The graphics were superb. The physics were awesome. The game was entertaining, but was a hi-tech arcade.

      Then evolved the internet.



      Q3's success an accident? Not quite, considering Q3 was made solely to tap into the multiplayer market. And by multiplayer I mean Internet, not networked multiplayer.



      And after gauging the rest of your post, I think you've almost completely forgotten that Q1 and Q2 existing before Q3 -- and, along with those games, you could modify the game completely to suit your needs. Q3 didn't "introduce" modifications, and Carmack didn't suddenly think "let's let the user modify the game." No, this happened 4 years before Quake3 was released, so you really don't know what your talking about.



      Don't believe me? Look up "Quake Team Fortress". It was the best multiplayer modification ever made, and it's still played today... nearly 9 years later. And it wasn't made for Quake3... no, it was made for Quake, way back in late 96/97.

      --

      For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

    9. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by Pwned · · Score: 1

      Like having all of the weapons do a rediculous amount of damage?

    10. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by Sturm0001 · · Score: 1

      And after gauging the rest of your post, I think you've almost completely forgotten that Q1 and Q2 existing before Q3


      Well, uh, no.
      I liked Q1 and Q2, but 56k baud just didn't work very well for multiplayer.
      As I recall it, broadband arrived well after Q3.
      But, to your point, I see the Q's as evolutionary steps of the same thing. No real need to distinguish between them.

      My point was: "physics" are far more important than graphics.
      "physics" in this case meaning the consistent behavior of objects in game. Similar in practice to software objects.

    11. Re:Uh... what about Quake 3? by DarkEdgeX · · Score: 1

      Q3's visual style was unique, that's mostly what I was thinking of. It seemed brighter, more cartoony. I realize this probably doesn't mesh well with the point of using the DOOM 3 engine (uber realism) but why not just higher res cartoony characters? :P

      And yes. Weapons which do ridiculous amounts of damage never hurt anyone. Well, maybe I should rephrase.... heh.

      --
      All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
  74. god dammit yes!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i wish more FPS's getting released had coop modes.

    any co-op mode at all. but preferably a GOOD coop mode.

    mainly, CAMPAIGN-STORY mode with two players. i don't like cheap substitutes for co-op tha tdont' involve the maps/missions of the single-player gameplay...

    i really wish System Shock 2, NOLF, MORROWIND, Far Cry had real co-op modes.

  75. paci-fisting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like pacifisting my girlfriend. Sometimes I dip my wet hand in a bowl of Albertson brand Oats before I do... Alternatively, save money buying cheaper oats; and for once, Oats can be a longer meal worth looking forward to every morning.

  76. Improved AI and interction with environment by deadlocked · · Score: 1

    Tim Willits:
    "It was much more of a continuation of Quake II more than anything else - We wanted to create a great single player experience that felt like a Quake style game. You'll find a lot of hard-hitting action in the title. You'll also find squad buddies that fight alongside you as well as vehicles that you can drive. And we also realized that we needed a really good multi-player as well, which is why we wanted to give it more of a Quake III feel rather than a Doom 3 multi-player feel."

    "... We've also improved the buddy AI and the monster AI greatly. Monsters will be aware of others around them, as well as their surroundings, and will react differently based on how you play. As for the weapons, if you know Doom, you know there's no rail gun, but if you know Quake, you know there's a rail gun (which does return in Quake 4, with some modifications)."

    "... For instance, you'll notice Gunners taking cover, reinforcing positions, coordinating attacks with other Gunners, and so on. The same will happen with your squad mates. This reinforces the greater sense of the war raging around you and the organized forces you'll fight with and against."

    "Doom 3 was much more of a solitary experience where you were alone, whereas Quake 4 is much more of a war experience with buddies and additional forces around you. There are a number of outdoor environments, plenty of vehicles to fight in and around, and a definite mix of levels between indoor and outdoor levels. For instance, you may have to go inside a structure to perform a task, then return outside to be retrieved. Thanks to Raven's level design, there are a number of indoor levels that are so detailed they make Doom 3's graphics look plain."

    Looks really promising.

  77. Re:Damn here's quake 4 and I still play roguelikes by Grave_Rose · · Score: 0

    Quake 20 - 20 hours
    Do you have a .torrent of said 'Quake 20'?

    Gr@ve_Rose

    --
    !ekoj on si aixelsyD
  78. Quake, Shamblers, and Vores by clump · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Quake 2 was the best one single player wise.

    I am afraid I will disagree about Quake2. Though I have every id Software 3DFPS, I would say the original Quake was the best and most revolutionary. It had both a medevil theme as well as a futureistic theme. The monsters were classy and diverse, and certainly the supernail was an amazing weapon.

    The sound was also an amazing feat of its own. The music and sound by NIN had a very raw and interesting feel. The sound was very "brave". Now most games have an ultra-pristine and clean tone. Quake's raw sound better fits the world of violence and destruction.

    I like everything id has done, and was just playing Doom3 a second ago. I will say that I really wish they would do something like Quake again. It really has magic.
    1. Re:Quake, Shamblers, and Vores by Lord+Kestrel · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this is a couple days late :)

      While I agree with you completely that Quake1 was revolutionary, I think Quake2 had a much better single player experience. And the Co-Op play online was identical to the single player, making it very fun. While DM has it's place, Quake2 IMO was great because of the very nice Co-Op mode. I spent many a night playing the game from start to finish with friends, which is what it's all about ;)

    2. Re:Quake, Shamblers, and Vores by clump · · Score: 1

      I think I just got your reply as I was looking at my user page. Here here. I second how wonderful co-op mode is. I know that there are some 3rd-party mods that offer co-op for various later id titles but I don't have any experience with them.

  79. Most architecture... by MMaestro · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Is either overly simple and designed for pure function or overly fashionable.

    Look at the interior of most modern museums. For the most part their big rectangle rooms with chairs in the center with paintings on the wall. Sure its great when you have 500 different tourists trying to cram into a room designed for 300 people, but its god awful ugly for video games.

    Same thing with modern day airports. Why build restaurants, newspaper stands or bookstores into the design? Isn't the goal supposed to be streamlining the process of getting people to and from their airplanes? That sure as hell doesn't happen with all those distractions. A couple vending machines and advertising reminders over time can replace this old design.

    Modern day architecture is EXTREMELY overly glamorous. Take a look at medieval castles: tight hallways means easy to defend, towers on the corners means maximum line of sight in 360 degrees, a wall where troops can stand on to defend against attacks either inside or outside the castle. Ugly as hell but it gets the job done with minimal waste of material.

    1. Re:Most architecture... by drxray · · Score: 1

      Yeah, those medieval cathedrals are all slick efficiency. And I hate those fairytale castle multi-storey car parks we have nowadays.

      Wish I lived where you live - round here it's the old buildings that are the pretty ones and most of the new buildings ugly.... that's probably a selection effect though - the old, ugly buildings get torn down so you can build new, ugly buildings.

      --
      Slashdot - Mutual Assured Discussion
    2. Re:Most architecture... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Medieval architecture is actually fairly utilitarian. Renaissance cathedrals are fancy, but castles are typically very utilitarian. They're designed for defensive purposes first, autonomy second, efficiency third, and aesthetics last.

      They look pretty because they're different. The various elaborate aspects that went into their design as defensive structures makes them appear intricate when compared to the simplicity of modern structures. The reason structures have become increasingly simple is that the advantages the designs have were nullified by advances in war. A castle today would serve to be little more than a stone tomb in a battle, so it has no benefit for military purposes. So then who is going to pay for the expense of constructing such an elaborate structure? They're not more efficient than a tower for businesses, and businesses have most of the money. They're less efficient space, heat, and construction-wise than a cheap ranch, so who is going to buy that? There are fads where more elaborate architecture becomes chic with the rich. You get nice Victorian mansions, or neoclassical government buildings, or what have you. But your typical building isn't going to be a mansion or a piece of art, it's going to house the prole or house a business.

    3. Re:Most architecture... by cowscows · · Score: 2, Insightful

      An architect designing a museum or an airport is working under an entirely different set of restrictions than someone designing levels for a video game. There are plenty of architects out there who would be absolutely terrible at level design, but there are also plenty who would be very good at it, and bring to the table some extra talents. Things like a solid awareness of spacial qualities, good lighting (especially with the newest/future engines), and a developed understanding of the importance of scale.

      If you grabbed a random architect off the street and asked him to design you a castle (responding to the same threats and functions that a medieval castle had to deal with) and didn't rush him/underpay him, I think you could end up with something close to equal to what already exists. Even better if you allowed for more modern materials/construction methods.

      I guess the point is, ignoring the subset of celebrity architects who are living in their own world, the average architect is pretty smart, very flexible, and willing to learn and experiment. A whole lot of the problems with contemporary architecture are caused by financial/social/political limitations, not the skills and desires of the architects.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  80. just by reading the article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i figured all this out. and no, i don't have a quake 4 programmer friend.

  81. Unreal Tournament - The 1999 Original by Nirvelli · · Score: 1

    Even in the original Unreal Tournament, when you saw other characters jump or dodge, they would do flips and other cool things. It is still in the newer UT games.

  82. try Painkiller by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

    The expansion pack has a level just like you describe, only it's a carnival with clowns instead of a circus. The makers also aren't afraid to be very un-PC; in the first level you fight through a haunted orphanage, and have to destroy the spirits of evil children. Woo!

  83. oh, get off your horse by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

    FPS's are all alike only if you compare the lowest common denominator - the fact that they're all FPS's. There are plenty of other dynamics - the story, the voice acting, the gameplay, the overall experience. The FPS genre is no more or less prone to stale unorigionality than any other type of game.

    What I find interesting, is if an FPS gamer doesn't care for RPG's or sports games, he doesn't complain about how "stale" they are, he just doesn't play them.

  84. Already Been Made by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look up Catechumen...weird frickin game.

    http://www.n-lightning.com/

  85. CTF?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The story is a continuation of Quake 2, but you can expect Q3A style multiplayer awesomeness as well. It's going to be a great game."

    That's nice, but I just wish they'd ship it with original Q2 CTF.. You know, with grappling hook.
    That mod is THE mod for me. I still play it almost daily and it's the only game I even bother to play. It's perfect: super-fast action combined with team tactics and communication.

    The broken physics engine (ie bunny hopping) actually brings another tactical aspect in the game. Realistic? Who cares, it's FUN.
    What it could use from Q3 is improved rocket jumping capabilities.

    Well, one can always dream..

  86. Hmm... by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

    Maybe look into MMOGs?

    I play Dark Age of Camelot, and my guild's GM convinced his girlfriend to start playing long ago.

    Now she plays more than he does...

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  87. Good Quake4 Article in June's CGW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  88. dark or light by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    We didn't really set out saying, 'This game is going to be dark, this game is going to be light' -- we set out to make a cohesive environment where you go through different extremes and you'll see a bunch of different stuff.

    So, then. Dark it is.

  89. Monsters in the closet... by wickedj · · Score: 1

    That was my biggest pet peeve of Doom 3. Every other enemy was locked in a closet somewhere. No wonder they were all pissed off and snarling.

    "Hey Bob, how ya been? I heard you took a vacation on Mars."

    "It was horrible Sal, once I got there, I got stuck in a closet for 10 hours. So I'm screaming and beating on the door like crazy, trying to get out. Finally, this guy let's me out. I go to thank him and then all of a sudden, he blows my head off with a shotgun. What the hell man?"

    "That really sucks Bob. I'm glad I skipped out and stayed in Hell."

    "Yeah, I've got such a kink in the neck... holy crap, it's that guy! I'm gonna go have a word with him. HEY YOU!"

    BLAM BLAM!!!

    "Bob?!!!!!! Noooooo!"

    BLAM BLAM!!!

    Seriously, try not to pack every single enemy in a fricking, hidden closet. Mix it up a little. Use a nook here, a cranny there, maybe even a crevice. Hopefully, Quake 4 will be better than that.

  90. Seriously by LPetrazickis · · Score: 1

    One of the most absurdly fun first-person-shooters to come out in recent years is Serious Sam. Instead of tacking on more and more boring realism, it takes the opposite approach and follows the bubble gum arcade logic.

    The weapons are all supercool, especially in Second Encounter. The chainsaw chews through tens of melee enemies, the flamethrower fries hordes of ranged attackers, and nothing can beat the bowling-esque cannonball launcher for taking down giant mechs, herds of bulls, and machine-gun-toting scorpions.

    And when I say "hordes of enemies", I do mean "hordes of enemies". You often find yourself facing upwards of 200 attackers at the same time. It is an absolutely incredible headrush.

    --
    Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
  91. Good for competitive adrenaline junkies... by msimm · · Score: 1

    At least the MP which is all I bother to play anymore. You get a team together, set up a Ventrillo server and you can have a pretty good time (and still manage to have a wife and family unlike the Evercrack games).

    --
    Quack, quack.
  92. As someone whos done some modding... by msimm · · Score: 1

    With the Counter Strike Source elements I'd say eye-candy is definitely overlooked. I never played Counter Strike, but the models, sound sequences, textures and sprites used in the updated Source version are amazing.

    Especially if you compare them to the HL2SDK (read: HL2DM) stuff.

    If by 'bright areas' they mean Quake 4 is taking a hint from the terrible failure of the dark, corridor crawlers I think thats a good thing. Maybe Tribes 2 spoiled me with the wide open areas but getting stuck in a underground garage to 'fight' is really getting old.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  93. Raven by rpillala · · Score: 1

    I didn't care about this announcement and was going to post "bleah who cares." Raven has shown with Star Trek Voyager Elite Force that they are capable of taking an existing work and making something good with it. I just wish there was more to the Quake world for them to work with. Say what you want about Star Trek but it's a pretty detailed and full universe.

    --
    When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
  94. My Excitement Runs Wild! by bleaknik · · Score: 0

    Never Mind. BORING.

    --
    Deja Vu
    n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.