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How To Balance Life And Technology For Kids?
brs165 writes "Being a newly minted geek father as of 4 months ago, I've thought about problems I've never had reason to consider before. One issue which I'd like to hear from the ./ crowd is introducing technology to their children. What got me thinking about this was a blog post about 'Nature-Deficit Disorder', and I think it brings up some good points. I grew up playing in the local woods and creek with minimal tech until our first computer when I was 13. I hear stories from coworkers how some of their kids/grandkids hating going outside because it is boring and they'd rather stay indoors. Should I avoid introducing them to technology until absolutely neccessary, or is it a matter of achieving a balance?"
Just create a simulation of all that icky nature stuff on a computer and plug them in matrix style for 18 years. Then reveal to them their whole life has been a sham up until that point.. :)
I'm a geek dad of 4 kids (9, 6, 4, and 1 yrs). Obviously, a balance is necessary.
But the real thing is: Your kid(s) will be into whatever you're into. If all you do is stay inside with the XBox and plasma TV, don't be surprised if that's all they ever want to do. For Father's Day (in the US) today, I took the boys on a bike ride, then we did waste a beautiful summer afternoon in the movie theater watching Ep 3.
Always look for ways to re-live your youth with them: Legos, Star Wars, bike riding, snow forts, adventures in the woods, baseball, and mindless shows on Cartoon Network all play a part. The computer is just a new element to share together.
--H
It depends on what you want your kid to be when he/she grows up.
As with most things in life, striking a balance here will prove extremely beneficial. I grew up with a balance between going out with friends, going to parties, playing outside (as a kid), and then going home and coding. What I got out of it was all the glory of being a skilled programmer and lots of fun random drunken sex stories.
:)
I'd have it no other way
"...if people respected copyright more, like you guys do with the GPL so religiously, [the DMCA] wouldn't be necessary."
They're going to be surrounded by technology and indoors by everyone they know and everything they do. It won't hurt to counterbalance that with too much outdoors yourself.
Try introducing a way to combine the outdoors and in. An example would be like Astrology. Have the kids look up constellations on the internet and then at night head out with them and go star gazing. Or things like geo-caching. There's tons of things that can mesh indoor activities with outdoor activites (with or without technology) to get kids to enjoy the outdoors. Or in the worst case scenario, over expose them to indoors activities so much that they grow to hate it and would do anything that doesn't involve sitting by a computer/TV for long periods of time.
We should keep technology away as long as possable, because everyone knows that videogames causes violence, and videogames are part of technology... so other technology must do too!
Your kids will get involved, especially early on, in the things YOU are involved in. If you want them to be active outside, then you gotta be the role model. As they age, they'll do things they are interested in. Involve them in many activities and theyll choose their path.
Ignorance is not a crime; neither should it be a way of life
Congress control $ = inmates run the asylum
I grew up playing in the local woods and creek with minimal tech until our first computer when I was 13. I hear stories from coworkers how some of their kids/grandkids hating going outside because it is boring and they'd rather stay indoors.
Kids raised indoors on computers will adapt better than their parents to a career in cubicle indenture.
-kgj
-kgj
It is important for a kid to gain a broad understanding of science, engineering, and technology and develop those skills very early on in life since there is somewhat of a developmental time window after which it becomes very hard to learn those things. You cam always learn to appreciate nature later on in life.
You should definitely hold off on introducing all the crazy technology to your kids until they've done some growing up. I loved the days when all I cared about was running around outside in the woods. Anyway, kids that young only use computers to play games, I find. Get them a Nintendo (the original) and introduce them to computers when they want to know more about technology, and not games. First post?
This ain't the dot slash crowd. You're in the wrong place.
Thank goodness for editors, right?
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
But, trust me your wife won't want to live in your parents basement forever. Find your own place other wise your going to have a major case of blueballs.
I think the key is for YOU to be in charge and to monitor your kids online. Obviously you dont want young children online and to stubmle across an adult website or something of the like.
;-)
The best way to introduce them to technology is just like you would anything else. Make it your job to introduce them and watch them online. Kids aren't likely to spend ALL day online if they have a parent behind there backs and thats true of little kids too.
Maybe spend 30 minutes a day showing them how to use it and let them play around with the games and such. Besides, very few young kids actually spend more time on the computer than they do outside... Except for me, but I was like one in a million.
Use technology as a tool and a toy, not as a substitute for parental guidance like so many do.
In my opinion, children should be introduced to as much as the world has to offer. The problems occur when parents sit a child in front of a television or a computer and say "here, entertain yourself."
These are the kids that grow up with technology as a substitute for guidance. They will obviously become attached.
Moderation and interaction are the key.
There's a reason why they'd rather play with the box than the toy. Respect and support that creativity.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
I'd say to give your children a rounded selection of activities, as much as it may be at odds with (perhaps) your own experiences, it may give them a chance to discover what things suit them and make them happy outside of the technology circle whilst still benefiting from any knowledge they happen to pick up from watching what you do (the ability of children to copy behaviours will allow them to pick up extra things from your own specialisms). Overall i think its about giving them a choice to develop any way they might want, and supporting that..
Business Voyeur
Now I use the computer almost all of the time when I'm not in school or sleeping, and I enjoy it a lot. I do think that it's kind of unhealthy though.
I'd say limit your kid's computer/TV/video game time to an hour a day, and perhaps change that as they get older. Let them have some normal extracurriculars before you give them the opportunity to spend that time on the computer.
I have 5 kids 15..8 and they all have different interests and we live on 9 acres and I run 80+hr week software business www.findmap.com.au
We have Windows,OSX and Linux and they all have easy access to them when and if they want. I love it when the 8 year old can jump on the Mac and do what they want, and same for the eldest too.
Only the Playstation gets *too* much attention from the teenage boys so I kick them out into the sunshine if I think they're been on too long.
It all works out and even for the youngest doing pages, drawing, internet are as natural now as riding their bikes and just plain messing around outside.
But most of all let them be who they are, whether that be books, socialising or outdoors and keep an eye out to make sure they at least get all the options you can offer them and see which way they lean.
Alex.
Like all things, technology should be balanced with nature, in moderation. You can not do your child justice in having them know nothing about technology, nor can you do them the disservice of creating house trolls. I've got three kids of my own.
"This above all, to thine own self be true"
you've had sex!!!
:O
way to go
Give them the adventure of a lifetime! Take your kids for an extended trip..lasting 2-3 days out in the wilderness. At first - they'll probably think you're mad and go crazy over it and want to go home. When the first period of "I-hate-u-dad" are gone, theyll realize that they have no choice but to make the best of it, and then together you'll solve survival puzzle's and discover all the exciting things in nature.. ...there's nothing like the REAL aliens out there - natures own wonders...bugs...in all their colors etc. Your kids are sure to be fascinated.
Later - when they get back to their "tech" world...don't hinder them, let them play at will, don't be surprised if they try to look up the bugs at the internet...and want to go "exploring" at some later time in life - because this is the time when you'll bring memories that will live inside them forever!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Wait, what's this "real life" you speak of?
Bored? Browse Slashdot with a +6 modifier for Troll comme
My dad had me hitting keys on the keyboard before I could talk (this was in the early 80's on an Apple II), but my parents always encouraged me to take up a sport a year or so, let me pick what I wanted to do. I bounced around for a number of years from soccer to basketball to gymnastics (which I did for a few years), then ice hockey (again, for another few years). Of course, they also encouraged me with technology, got me a C64 when I was around 10, let me go to a programming camp for a week or two one summer (around the same age), etc. Just make sure to encourage both and don't push them too hard in any one direction...
Try to understand that you're not going to have nearly the amount of input you seem to think you will. Your kids are going to be introduced to a whole host of things without your consent/knowledge.
Once you wrap your mind around that, you can start to prepare yourself to teach them to deal with those things on a rational level.
You're thinking ahead, at least, and that's the first step to success. Good luck, you'll need it.
Pete (father of 8)
loyalty above all, save honor
I got hooked on computers at a young age, and only in the last 4 years have I gained an appreciation for exercise and outdoor activities.
I would say, focus on activity and creativity, with the computer thrown in as an occasional diversion.
How to do that? I don't know. I Am Not A Parent (IANAP)
Error 404 - Sig Not Found
I intended to keep my son away from TVs and PCs, but with a house full of PCs and laptops, it's impossible. At the age of 3 he claimed the ibook as his own. It's probably not too bad; there's some good websites for kids, like pbskids. Plus it's interactive, unlike TV. What's not so good is the advertising--he's always asking us to buy him the candy & snacks he sees. He might as well be watching TV. That's our current battle.
Let them see the outdoors, and if technology is there, it is a tool and not the toy.
DO: get them outside, go canoeing, biking, hiking, walking, skiing, camping, exploring, build and launch model rockets (please, lauch outside), build a treehouse... If you must involve technology, bring a GPS and a digital camera (but don't forget a map and compass - be sure they know how to use those when the GPS batteries die). While you are out there, talk to them abou the plants species, the mountains, how the compass works, how the water flows around the canoe and what make the bike stable while it is moving.
What did you enjoy doing outside as a kid? Why not try that? If they enjoy it too, that's great - you are doing somehting you enjoy outside, and your kids are there and having fun too!!
Is it possible for you to even raise your kids without a TV? I can certainly live without a TV (over a year now, almost 3 years depending on how you count it).
DO NOT: buy a Nintendo/PS3/XBox and let the toy babysit the kids for you. People at Slashdot will expel the virtues of how they learned problem solving and "other skills" while playing video games. Well, I learned a few German words playing a foreign game, and picked up some geography from Civ3, but try and keep the video games to a minimum.
Being a parent is an active responsibility (but it can be fun). Just be sure you go exploring. If you are having fun, they probably will be too. If the kids look forward to going biking with dad more than sitting in front of the boob-tube playing Mari Kart 12, you are doing your job well! If they hear "Dad's home, and were building rockets tonight!" and drop the video game in the middle of a game to join you, you are doing great!
The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them. -Einstein
You have answered your own question. Perhaps this is THE job for all parents. To deliver a new child into responsibility involves learning to balance, given a world of endless choices. All this overprotection from parents is just creating a generation with no responsibility and no impluse control. Those that think they are protecting from all these suposed evils are merely creating monsters. Don't make the same mistake.
Let your kids be geeks if they want to be. If my parents thought I needed to get out of the house and socialize, I probably would have turned out like Jeffery Dahmer.
Major e longinquo reverentia, as they say - everything looks good (or, for that matter, better) from far away, and forbidden fruits appear tastier.
It's probably a better idea to introduce your kids to computers and all that early on. Compare it to the TV - your kids are most likely going to be allowed to watch TV before they're 14 (or whatever), but that doesn't mean you'll allow them to do it for eight hours each day without checking *what* they watch.
Do give them limits; enforce them, but don't be arbitrary. Above all, make them transparent and understandable - if you tell your kids that they can use the computer, but for an hour only, that's much better than only coming in after an hour and telling them that they have to stop *now*.
Don't give them a bad example; if you don't do anything except sit at the computer (or, more generally, stay indoors) all day, then your kids *will* question why it's bad for them if it obviously isn't bad for you, too.
That's about what I can think of right now. As a disclaimer, though, I don't have kids myself.
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
he can't even hold the controller yet- what use is he?
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
Until then I pedalled my go-kart, played in the play-park with Ding-dong (his name was Bell) and the other boys, explored in the woods, etc. This was on a UK Air Force base in Germany in the 70s. There was only one English programme on TV - once a week - The Muppet Show. Based on my experience, I recommend absolutely no computers and no more than 30 minutes TV a week until the age of 10.
If you introduce them to the cool side of computers like the command line early on, but discourage games, then they'll get that good education and also want to go outside when the computer gets boring.
43rd Law of Computing:
Anything that can go wr
fortune: Segmentation violation -- Core Dumped
One of the problems these days is that the kids want to watch too much television (including gaming and computer games.) As a parent you have the power to select activities for your child(ren.) Too often, parents opt to let them vegetate in front of the tv/computer/xbox etc. instead of doing things with them. A park playground offers opportunities to swing, climb, toss a ball, etc. Find a beach at the ocean/lake/river nearby. There the family can take a walk, fly a kite, have a picnic, go fishing, hike, mountain bike and so forth. Be a proactive parent and plan activities that the family can do together. And create 'traditions' that the kids can look forward to. For example, make a big deal of Halloween, or eat spaghetti every Sunday night, or take a walk every morning (easier in Summer?) or after dinner. By doing things together you can reduce the amount of time kids can sit in front of the tv. And THEN provide them with down time where they can do whatever alone or with friends/siblings. Then tv, gaming etc is ok. And what about books? Doesn't anyone read to their children anymore? Read a little together everyday, and you may see your little one turn off the tv unpromted and open a book one day.
I'm a geek son and my dad just always took us to the park and made us have fun playing tag and such...
Go to the w3.org and put Slashdot.org through the validator.
Being a father of three (6, 3, 1) I cut the TV cable and removed the aerial. My kids have 10' of VHS tapes which can always be interrupted for dinner. VHS tapes are much better for kids than DVDs, which damage easily. I buy them second hand for $1 a piece. My kids have their own networked PC at their own height, which is mostly used for games. I can't think of anything they could pull up from the net which I would object to (I will probably soon find out) but the trash on TV is too bad. Now my oldest watches at his friends or his grandparents. He hasn't complained a single time about not having live TV at home. Mobile phones have no secrets for them and sometimes when they are lost I curse myself for not giving them one. Writing my own mobile number in 1" digits on their arm helps in crowded places.
Read up on how a child's brain develops !
My opinion is the fast changing images in TV and computer games is a major problem to the development of a child's brain.
TV is not a babysitter & a computer is no subsitute for hands on physical play.
This is my opinion based on what little I know and understand of the rumors and lies Thanks, Randal
There's plenty of "tech" which can be used outside.
I remember going out to the desert to go stargazing and learing how to use a compass and read a topographic map. These days, with GPS, satellite maps and a host of other gadgets, there's more than enough to combine geek culture with the great outdoors.
I don't think I've ever met a kid who wasn't fascinated by a really cool telescope.
'Nature-Deficit Disorder'? I think I have that. I also have a 'Drug&Alcohol-Deficit Disorder' and a 'Assfuck-Deficit Disorder'. So if someone doesn't like something, it's called an Deficit Disorder now?
There are educational nature games out there like SimPark. I personally enjoyed the game and identifying plant and animal species was a requirement of the game. Mix that in with camping trips and what not, should be a good balance. My parents always took me on hiking trips and stuff like backpacking down the grand canyon. I was first introduced to a computer at 4 y/o. Ofc the most advanced game at the time was pacman or stickman. Personally, I would limit the gamming consoles like xbox and such until they are older, and make them work for the game. I see too many kids that are spoiled and expect 3 new games on every holiday. These same kids also have next to no technological know how. I only have a nes 8 bit and a gameboy btw :-p. While I am probably not the perfect example of a balance... My point is that you don't have to deprive them of computers until they are older, just make sure you incorporate/balance the two and don't let it get to the point where they expect the latest games without earning it.
What is your penile percentile?
The fact is, we are living in a modern world now. And I happen to like my comfortable, air-conditioned home. I do not like staying outside under a hot sun being bitten by bugs, because, you know, it isn't comfortable. Does this mean I am an anti-nature freak? No. I love the smell of the air after rain, and a beautiful sunset can bring me close to tears.
What I'm trying to say here is that yes, I prefer spending my time in front of my computer to riding a bike, but is this truly bad? There is a strong tendency to talk about the evils of single-mindedness and how much better our lives would be, "if only Dad had taken me on camping trips when I was a kid!", and yet here you are, sitting at your computer, reading this message. You can try to inflict your own moral values on your offspring, but I suspect that for most of you, it would simply be an excuse for your own poor behavior; attempting to correct the sins of the father in the next generation.
It's called hypocrisy, my friends.
... adapted kid?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Keep them naked and make them live under a bush eating grubs and berries. No technology at all: no clothing, no cooking, no housing.
'Technology' is not a synonym for 'computers'.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Institute "Turn Off" days.. turn off the computer, the TV, everything and break out a milton bradly board game, or a deck of cards. I realize that the idea will be more difficult as the kids get older, but they seem to understand that a videogame is like candy for your mind. Its cool and all, its fun, but it doesn't actually help you do anything. We've also been a lot more open to allowing the kids to pusue physical activities (baseball, taekwondo, gymnastics) that my more "intellectually" minded parents weren't interested in having us pursue. As long as you actually pay some attention to them, they'd be plenty happy tossing a ball around outside, or playing a game of cards, or putting a puzzle together.
meh
I have two. About to turn one year old, and a 16 year old. I personally have a policy of "they have to learn to play with the computer and they have to learn how to play with a stick".
I found with the 16 year old that he got nothing out of using the computer at one year old and two years old... Using Amigas he had colour screens, animation and a mouse. Yes it was cute to watch him use the mouse, but that was for the parents benefit more than it was for his. With our youngest, we have a policy of "you can use the computer when you have learned to read what is on the screen". The reality is that you get nothing out of a computer if you can't read what is on the screen. It is a great reward for kids to graduate onto educational software once they have learned how to read from a book.
But don't listen to my ramblings, do what is right for you, your child and your situation. Every child is different, every family is different.
Always remember that as soon as you give your teenager a computer with net access in his room, it will be used to download porn.
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
Which kid learns more about nature? The one who goes down to the stream, falls in and gets wet and finds a few frogs hiding under some branches, or, the kid that plays magic schoolbus field trip game?
Apart from exposure to nature, there are many other things that create a real framework for kids. Yesterday we (myself, wife + kids) planted 60 trees in a grid. We used pythagoras to set things up square. We did multiplication/division etc to calculate how many rows and trees per row etc. We talked about nutrients etc as we added compost that the kids had helped to make some months ago. We talked about harvesting, pruning etc. On top of this, the kids got some exercise!
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I think it's a question of balance. Tech isn't inherently going to make your kid an introvert. YOU as a Dad need to make sure the child gets to see nature, the outdoors, learn where meat and milk and vegatables come from. Once they are in tune with nature and they have access to computers, help them to realis that the internet can teach them many things that can be acted out in "meatspace" not in some virtual shoot-em-up world. You can't just click and download a life...
I built a HTPC to use for many reasons. One of those is as a 'kid computer'. But, The kids don't just veg out playing computer games.
We have a drawing tablet and Disney's Magic Artist drawing program, and my daughter loves to draw with it. She can just hit a little spot on the table to fire up the program, and she's in.
I got one of the USB microscopes, and we look at leaves, seeds, insects, etc. with it. I run the software, but let them place the stuff on the tray and move the magnification around.
I don't want her to "learn the computer" or "play on the computer" as much as using it as a tool to draw, for example. She doesn't need to learn to type yet. She doesn't need to spend hours playing games.
But it can be useful to have access to things you wouldn't have otherwise.
Don't steal. The government hates competition.
I have a three year old daughter, and I've struggled with the same issues. The rule I've come up with is that she has no access to video games, computers, or television until she can read. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool, third generation computer geek, but I really think that young children should be focusing on more basic skills until they can read. Reading is really one of the first skills of human abstraction which children must master. Most everything prior to that consists of interaction with the world around them and grokking that world. Allowing children to immerse themselves in the worlds of computers, TV, and video games denies them that interaction. Our generation (and older) can appreciate the "virtual" worlds more fully because we grew up in the outside world; we can compare and contrast and see the benefits/detriments of both. That said, I can't wait for the days when I can totally geek out with my daughter. I can't wait to see how she absorbs the world of computers. A command of and comfort with technology is also a requirement in the world moving forward. Because of that, and because I value reading (offline and on) so much, I've drawn the line at her ability to read. That way, it's dependent upon her development, not upon some arbitrarily chosen age.
Only allow the children to use the computer/internet when the sun has gone down and be very stern over this point.
the pointy stick puts somebody's eye out.
I'd keep them away from it if I were you.
KFG
I think if your kids have a few good friends when they're growing up, then there's nothing to worry about.
:)
My parents tell me that the first word I could spell was RUN on the C64. Despite being surrounded by computer stuff, I never really spent much time with them until about grade 10 when I started thinking about careers and whatnot (or maybe it was because DOOM came out
Really, having a dog to play with and take for walks makes going outside and walking actually fun! A husky is the ultimate physical exercise machine - and the best friend you can ever ask for.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Am I the only one that misread the title as "how to Load balance life, technology, and kids"?
Based on personal experience (I'm almost 21 now), I'd say keep computer interaction to a minimal. I grew up out in the country surrounded by woods, pond, stuff like that, and I loved it. We had an Apple IIGS for as far back as I remember. I spent a good amount of time on it with various educational games (spelling, math, some drawing, puzzles, some midi software... Must....not....reminisce....), but not too much. The only major difference compared to today would probably be a) more graphical and b) Internet. I'd keep his exposure to the internet restricted for a while until it was necessary due to ease of addiction. Some educational games would be good, but old fashioned ways to learn work just fine. I'd also stay away from consoles for as long as possible. I wanted one, but I didn't get one till the SNES (1st grade. Friends still find it crazy that one of the biggest game freaks in our grade didn't have a NES). Then again, here I am on slashdot, so maybe that's not the way to raise a child... But it sounds good.... Computer Technology is "new" to us, but for it to be a standard "normal"... Seems dangerous.... Like how the normal "TV" has caused problems for some in our generation.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
As a Dad, one of the nicest things I discovered was tivo gave me absolute control over the TV. My little one never got to watch a live feed, but rather only got to watch what I had recorded - and also required intervention as each show ended to do something about it. I've seen way to many parents - and it is damn easy to do - just plop their kids in front of the tube and tune in PBS for what can quickly turn into half a day.
On the plus side, you should get in the habit of time shifting your TV watching. The odds of having a TV on for you to watch something while the little one is awake are slim. What little free time you actually have left over should not be wasted on commercials...
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Let them know it's a tool for learning and playing as most of us geeks know. Teach them how to use it (and I mean use it, not load super magic blast penguin 12 or whatever the latest fad is for children in the next ten years) and then let them use it if they want. Some kids will never want to go out, others will never want to use a PC. Let them decide what they do unless it becomes counter productive, then edge them more towards the other (AKa Hey I'm going for a bike ride tomorrow, wanna come?" for example. Just remember not to abuse it and force them not to do/to do something unless they REALLY must because it'll make it ten times more tempting. Encourage them, not discourage
I like muppets.
When I was growing up, I got my first nintendo when I was six. It was very fun, but at that time I would rather go outside with my brother and pretend we were knights and proceed to smack the hell out of each other with sticks. The younger the kids are the easier it is to keep them off the TV or Computer.
When the kids get older encourage them to start playing some sports or to join the Boy Scouts. That is what I did. They will learn to like the outdoors in Boy Scouts and learn what Boy Scout Juice (aka. Coleman Camping Fuel) and fire do together.
If it comes down to it you could make a rule where kids have to play outside for one day and then they can play inside the next. I have a friend who had that rule in his house and he turned out to be the best damn athlete in our school.
Kids are always getting sick these days because they don't eat enough turds.... speaking of which my youngest son (4) was today paddling in a muddy river and making a general mess of himself and having good fun trying to catch the fishies and throwing little sticks at the ducks.... I was happy that he was happy making a mess and generally acting the arse, I couldn't say the same if I was stuck in front of the TV whilst he was in the back room monging with a PS2. Common sense dude.
Resident of Skara Brae since 1985
I wouldn't worry about your kids seeing the world through their PC screen. Video cards are getting better with each generation and soon there will be little need to go outside to see the real thing.
In my neck of the woods, we have something called the boy scouts and the girl scouts. They teach great values: honesty, compassion, teamwork, etc. Convince your kid to sign up. The scouts can instill the kind of values that kids need.
Being "smart" (quotes intended and explained later) in only technology is actually being dumb. Look at Taiwan and South Korea. Their kids outscore American kids in all international assessments of technical knowledge: mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc. Yet, both societies are far worse than the USA, Sweden, Canada, etc. Ask yourself, "Why?"
Creating a comfortable society takes much more than technical smarts. Creating a wonderful society also requires people who are honest, compassionate, etc. In Korea, the majority of orphans are actually adopted by Westerners (usually Americans) and are brought over to the West (usually, the USA). Koreans reject folks outside of their own family. In Korean society, if you are an orphan, than "you deserve to die" to reduce the surplus population.
Hence, Korean kids can out-calculus American kids, but the American kids grow up to create a society which attempts to be compassionate. Sure, there are mistakes committed by Americans and other Westerners. But, overall, would you rather live in Korea or in the USA?
By the way, I recently had a conversation with the manager at the district office of the local boy scouts. He mentioned that the Chinese and the Koreans are substantially underrepesented in the Scouts.
Encourage multiple stmuli for their little developing brains. Read to them when they are young. Take them on nature walks. Introduce them to musical instruments (violin) perhaps in a social setting (childrens choirs), take them to art museums, boat rides, swiming pools, walks in the neighborhood, the zoo, etc. If you speak another language, start teaching them while they are young. Enroll them in art, theater, dance, sports, and any other class they don't know anything about.
Pretty soon they will tell you what they are interested in, yet keep pushing them in many directions they will continue to discover things they like and develop many talents.
Point is, you only get one shot, so introduce your kids to everything you can. They will thank you for it later.
... I borrowed a computer from work (Acorn Archimedes I think it was in those days) and wrote a rather simple program: whenever any key on the keyboard was pressed the entire screen turned a randomly chosen different colour, and a random note was played.
The baby soon got the hang of thumping the keyboard with her fist and knowing that changing the colour and playing the music was under her control!
Kind of undermines the effort of anyone else who does their part to keep the population in check, huh?
I have three words for you: Salt Lake City -- How much you want to bet?
So think hard: How did you parents handle it? Are you glad they did it that way? Then follow their example. If not? Learn from their mistakes. (Just don't overcompensate by making them live like Amish kids. By the time they grow up enough to appreciate it, you'll be dead.)
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
...or is it a matter of achieving a balance?
Yes.
Got no time to waste mate, get him/her laptop as soon as possible, teach fundmentals as early as possible!!
Age:
2 - Use the Internet
5 - Fix problems, navigate, config small things. by this point give him/her Linux.
7 - Begin learn BASIC
10 - Begin learn PHP
12 - Begin learn C++
15 - Will know all his shit, get him decent programming job.
18 - Be smartest kid ever in computers/science, or something like that working for fortune 500 Company with nice ass pay. May even already own his small technology company of some type!
I grew up surrounded by computers. Instead of playing stupid soccer on the streets with the retarded kids, I prefered to stay home, and have my fun with the computers (Amiga), not just play games, but I also learn to code (AmigaBASIC, was 7 years old :) and other things. I'm, thought, not your usual social-unaware dude; I did something besides computers; I practiced martial arts. Whenever I get a son, I'll make sure his technology experience isn't censored like mine wasn't either, and also make sure he does martial arts since little. With this and little more, I'll make him a culturally rich and capable dude, as opposed to the "stupid retard sheep like the other kids" he'd be otherwise.
Technology isn't just one thing. I'm all with you on not letting you kids play the same mindless game forever, but technology can be a lot of things.
Explain how things work to your kids. When you rewire the connections on you TV, show them how it works. Show them more of the computer than just "Click here and play your game". This of course depends on age. For a very young kid, just clicking the mouse is challenging enough.
Watch Grass Grow
I am in nearly the same situation as you are since my son is currently 9 months old. Introduce technology that encourages your child to go outdoors. One thing I plan on doing with my child when he is old enough is Geocaching. I will show him how to use a computer to pick out various geocaches, map them out, and research the areas. Once we've done that, I'll show him how to use GPS to hunt down the geocache. The end result is that my son will learn a bit of technology and we'll spend quality time in nature instead of in front of a computer screen or television. I think the important thing is to foster a love of nature in your child before he/she discovers the entertainment value of a game console or a PC.
I was recently chatting with a psychology grad student, and somehow we got onto the subject of televisions and kids. She informed me that she had read a study, not long ago, that apparently linked a retardation of neuron development in the brain with children under six years of age having even average exposure to TVs and computer screens. The way she explained it to me, it has something to do with rapidly changing images.
I have not looked up the study myself, and would be grateful if some geek of the psychology flavor would clarify or correct my recollection. Still, I would recommend weaning the kid on technology at around age six, anyway--let his or her metabolism develop under activity, get him/her interested and familiar with nature (and not just the backyard kind!), and introduce technology at around age seven, is my advice. My memories of exploring the woods of my back yard and the badlands nearby are much more vivid and exciting to me today, fifteen plus years later, than any of my recollections of playing nintendo and computer games, or even watching Mr. Wizard or Mr. Rogers.
Balance is key, it is true, but it is often as important that you know how to balance these things as it is that you know what proportions by which to balance them.
~UP
Eat the Path.
I grew up in a very rural area (father born in a log cabin, fifteen miles from my home to the nearest stop light, etc) and I'd rather be outside as long as the weather is decent. My ex is a Jewish American princess and her idea of camping out is the Marriott without room service. Funny demographics, eh?
We live in a small metro area (500k people). When my son was old enough to walk a few hundred yards without whining too much I'd take him to a local park. I mean a park, with unmown grass as tall as he was. He whined and whined at first, but he began to enjoy it after the first few trips.
Now that the kids are almost five and eight they can keep up and we go all over - my son will fearlessly dash across a stream on a downed tree, my daughter will go with just a little coaxing, and I don't think a lot of the kids their age get these sorts of experiences - the ones who have parents that grew up in rural areas get them out into nature, the city kids
I pretty much restrain my son from video games and the like - he needs exercise and stuff outdoors - there'll be plenty of time to be cooped up working in front of a computer when he has a career.
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
Buy Longhorn for your kid the moment it comes out, By the age of 17, the kid whould be able to make its own decisions on the quality of the product.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Um.. I'm a kid of 15, and have been into technology ever since I was small. Didn't start reading /. till a few years ago. My parents never had to actually show me technology, my father and I used to play Quake 1 when I was around 9.
There are a lot more kid geeks than you know of.
I love dogs. On the subject of wilderness, however, Dogs are extremely destructive. Dogs and wilderness do not mix. When you take them into the wilderness they chase all of the wild life away. They pollute streams and intensify the destruction of the wilderness.
Pets are more of a consumer product than they are an introduction to nature.
I've spent most of my life without a dog. Coco showed up on the porch a year and a half ago. I take her on regular walks in the mountains. It is freightening the amount of destruction I see being done by dogs.
In a discussion on the value of pets. Yes, kids and dogs are a great combination. However, pets are about the domination of animals. Taking Coco on trips into the mountains, I am now starting to see the extent to which dogs dominate recreation and the affect that they have on the diminishing nature around us.
In other words, you should only have a dog if you really, really want to have a dog. You should only have a dog if you are wanting a pet to be a primary focus of your recreation time.
You should budget two grand a year for dog care and food, and plan to spend a great deal of time with it.
Coco showed up on my porch because a family with two sons bought a puppy as a consumer product, and found out that dogs are a big hassle.
I read this and thought "Man, I didn't know Amazon bought a rain forest! Good ol' Bezos."
Seriously though, if this is a grave enough concern that you need to ask current-directory, you should move to Seattle immediately. Or Vancouver. Or Portland.
We have mountains, and beaches (heh), and bike trails galore. No one fears the West Nile. We drive Subarus to take our dogs to the dog parks. When friends visit, we go see REI and picnic in the park at the southern end of Pike's market. We eschew the space needle.
There is more acreage of elaborate gardens tended by homeowners in 10 square blocks of Wallingford than most cities have in all their parks combined.
Anyway, good luck. I have a steak to grill.
Well happy Father's Day
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
As much as I use computers now, I wish I didn't. The best years of my life were spent as a child, when I thought an N64 was for spoiled, lazy, rich kids.
I hiked, went camping, fishing, played kickball every day. That was the bomb.
Up until I was 11(!), I was only allowed to watch PBS. At first, this meant I was watching educational material. Later on, it just meant that I'd be so bored by TV I'd go out and play street hockey.
If I were you, which I'm not, I'd try keeping the kid away from computers/video games for a long time. Maybe when they're in 3rd grade you can give them a computer, with no games. I entertained myself for 6 months doing nothing but making stories on powerpoint.
Maybe you can give them a linux machine, and their entertainment can be screwing around with it.
Gradually, you can give them more complex games as they get older. Ideally, they shouldn't have the equivalent of Starcraft/half-life (any "mainstream" game) until 14 ish.
Don't let your kids end up stupid. Keep them away from the addiction of computers/video games. Don't worry about "setting them back in technology compared to their peers" or something. Kids pick things up fast, too fast.
Keep your child innocent! Computer/Video games are for 10 years old and up.
As a teenager, I can relate directly to this post as something that I wish my father had done with me. He would work all day when I was young and come home and play Mario on NES with my brother and I because that's what we enjoyed to do. He never took us out camping, and he didn't introduce anything new to us. Instead, it was Mario that my brother and I enjoyed (because we didn't know any better), so that's what we did with him. While reading your post, I got that fuzzy feeling of happiness while reading the last part about the kids dropping their video game controllers and rushing to their dad because they are building rockets tonight. There's a large part of me that wishes that my dad did this with my brother and I instead of just listening to our excessive whining to play video games.
Here I am many years later just learning how to build model rocket and wishing that my dad had taken some time to think about our best interests and not our immediate desires.
My daughter is too little to care yet, but I'm really looking forward to sharing my aviation hobby with her. I want to do this for a lot of reasons, but one of the main ones is that aviation represents a very good balance between nature, technology, and social behaviour.
Nature: It's all about physics and energy management, of course, and the physical beauty of nature can be striking from a small airplane.
Technology: While it's great fun to bumble around with no particular destination in mind, landing at country strips as the mood strikes you, it's equally but differently satisfying to plan a complicated route and use radio and satellite navigation to hit waypoints within seconds of prediction.
Society: To be a good pilot, and even just a safe one for that matter, you have to think about the other people around you. What do they (other pilots, the air-traffic controllers and other regulators, the people who are trying to sleep under your glide path early on Sunday morning) want?
Anyway, light aviation is the perfect balance between beauty and precision, and between nature and technology.
don't turn your child in to a linux nerd who will be made fun off at school
Im just wondering how it got modded +5 Interesting.
Inless that afternoon nap I had lasted more than a couple of hours (many years) and we have that technology now.
Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
Make them build their own computer without assistance by the age of 5 or 6. let them choose an o/s, and give them a balance of games and apps like photoshop, nero, wordprocessing, etc. Make what you can do with these FUN, or there won't be a learning curve to accomplish. Balance this with household chores, outside play, and team sports. This is a canno fail equation. You can't loose, you can only get a fantastic well adjusted kid. I have three!! The downside from the parenting point os view is you have to 'nag, nag' but remember creativity and imagination minimize the necessity to 'nag' so your own abundance of creativity and imagination are your ticket to happiness, and your kids will benifit greatly.
Kids want to go on adventures, plain and simple. In controlled suburbia kids cannot find adventures outside (The great plains of cut grass!) and there with INEVITABLE look elsewhere for adventure. Video games provide this adventure. If you want your kids to enjoy the world, go on adventures with them! When I was little my adventure was in the national park behind my house. I lived my youth in the hills and build a huge fort there. I went on night hikes with my parents friends in the park and learnt photography on (illegal) off-trail hikes. I think it is funny when people say "impose limits on the amount of time they spend on computers/video games". This the absolute wrong approach. If you want them to get away from technology, find something ACTUALLY FUN for them to do. Build a boat with them and try to sail accoss a local lake I did this a keel learnt a valuable life lesson about what keels do (I forgot to add one). In the end the boat crash and sank, but it was an adventure! Go for a day long hike, not an aimless hike, but to the top of a mountain or something with a goal. Don't guide them, but let them guide you to the top. Take a note from nature, the lion mom lets the cubs explore, make mistakes, and learn. It is only when the kids are in REAL TROUBLE do the parents take over. The bottom line is that kids LOVE missions/expeditions/adventures and they want to do whatever lets them have them, whether that is sailing in a homemade boat (great fun), launching rockets, or XBOX.
Daily News (and more) on Tech in the Developing World
Now I live in "Silicon Valley", in an apartment complex. It is shocking for me to imagine, all the kids that live around here have no place to play outside. Yeah there are city parks, but that's really not the same.
So, now that I have a 1-year-old son, my wife and I are moving to New Hampshire. Actually, we move in less than 1 week; the truck left a few hours ago, with all our stuff in it :-)
We both have software jobs lined up already in Nashua, NH. Considering that Nashua has a lot of high-tech jobs, is less than an hour from Boston, and has NO STATE INCOME TAX, it's awesome that we can get a house there with a big wooded yard for less than what we were paying for rent in California.
And, the fact that New Hampshire is the designated Free State is a big bonus. Watching California's big-government socialist model is like watching a train wrek -- I prefer not to be on board!
Part of the Second American Revolution!
Of course it's a matter of balance. But, what will become evident as your kid becomes mobile, they are (more than anything else on the planet) curious in what YOU ARE DOING. If you are on the computer a lot, they will want to be, if you are outside a lot, they will want to be, if you veg out in front of the TV, they'll sprout roots right next to you. With my kids, I try and keep this in mind...the computer is just a replacement for all the time I spent bored to tears with those pitiful educational toys we had when we were kids. I don't let them use it more than a half an hour at a time and as with all things...monitor their usage.
So I'm not even going to try and pretend I know anything about parenting from a Father's point of view. I'll just say what my parents did.
When I was very young - 1-3 years - I was encouraged to read. Mum did this by reading me stories, pointing out the words, saying them slowly, and sometimes prompting me to either read or recall from memory what the next word was.
At about 3, 3 and a half, my family got a Vic 20, and purely because of the fact that Dad wasn't "computer-minded" and Mum was only marginally better at then Dad, I was allowed to run wild on the machine. I got given the manuals that came with it, and I could play on it any time as long as Mum and Dad were awake - no 4am early wakeups and tap-tap-tap.
When I went to pre-school Mum would walk with me to it and back. It was only about 10 minutes away on foot. When I started primary school Dad got me a bmx pushbike and I'd ride - generally in circles - while Mum walked - and shouted "come back here!".
Now my Dad likes camping, so that's what we all did for holidays from when I was about five. Nothing major like surviving in the words with only a survival knife, just camping in a tent at the Scarborough Caravan and Camping Park at Scarborough Beach, Redcliffe - gone now, sold to arsehole developers.
So far I've been using a computer - the Vic 20 was soon upgraded to a C-64 with a printer - for playing and doing homework, going camping almost every half-year, riding my bike to school, and being encouraged by my Mum to read everything I can get my hands on - including books on biology, sexual reproduction, chemistry, and physics.
At thirteen I get a junior chemistry set and I'm allowed to do what I want with it, short of burning the packaged kerosene burner outside of the kitchen. Mum had checked that none of the chemicals in the set were dangerous when mixed, although tartaric acid and bi-carb can still make a cool mess.
I also received a microscope set and some books on astronomy - I know, but Dad couldn't afford a "decent" telescope. I branched into three more areas of curiosity.
At 16 I'm riding one of my bikes - a blue mountain bike and a black tourer - everywhere I want to go. If I want to go to Brisbane - I live in Ipswich - then I ride there - hour and a half on the highway. I'm allowed to go camping on my own if I want to, having demonstrated an avid interest in camping and a proficiency for looking after myself in the bush. I'm publically regarded as nerdy by the girls at school, and privately told I'm a nice guy - being seen with a reader isn't "cool".
Today I still ride my bike - now a black dual-suspension mountain bike - everywhere, I still read a lot, I use my computer a lot - Athlon XP 2600, 1GB RAM, 280GB HDD, Gentoo Linux and Windows 2000 - and I upgrade it and look after it myself, and I go camping when I can get the time and I'm not adverse to walking long distances through scrubby, uneven terrain.
The thing was, my parents never said "you have to like these particular things". They just encouraged me to look after myself, and did it in somewhat subtle ways.
I'd take you but I'm busy right now, why don't you ride your bike? I don't know the answer son, look it up in that book there... This is how you make a campfire... Explorers used to walk from, say here, to that blueish mountain off in the distance a hundred years ago, just to see what was on top... Look, look, it turns blue when you swirl the water this way, and changes back to red when you leave it alone... Ever noticed son how the images look smaller when you look through binoculars backwards? We've got some new stories, they're called Great Books of the Western World... Okay you can call these bulletin board things, but only local calls (new 386 with a modem)... Where's your sister (good for gaining detective skills that one)?
Sure, I wasn't a great kid, and I did a lot of stuff kids do like skipping school, getting annoyed at certain vegetables, staying out after my curf
His name is Robert Paulsen...
I shall let Nature & Technology proceed side by side: I shall teach to kids to use GPS to find their location in the wood; use a telescope to look at the night stars; to use sonic detectors to locate birds to use a laptop to write small paragraphs in diary,to use the cell phone to commuicate...........and use digital cam to take pitures. The two are not antagonistic and can go hand in hand.
My wife and I are expecting our first child any day now (her due date was a week ago), and I recently discovered an interesting application/game on Fedora Core 3. When installed with KDE, KPotato is available as the electronic version of Mr. Potato Head, complete with eyes, mustaches, glasses, and noses that you can place on a blank face.
I did think about KBattleship, but then decided on a more pacifist approach. Maybe chess as she grows older.
My parents influence certainly had an effect in raising me to appreciate life outside technology but what had a more drastic influence was economics. Be poor: your kid will have to learn to entertain themselves without technology.
I'm 16 and have some of the geekiest habits ever, but by choice. When I was younger my parents (dad especially) would always take me camping, and I would always go and paly in the woods next door with my neighbors. I played soccer, ran around outside, lots of physical activity, a bunch of outdoor recreational stuff. Well, somewhere down the line I started fiddling around with my dad's computer at work. I went from messing around with Paint, to exploring the control panel, to tweaking the theme colors, to what I am now. All over the course of maybe 4 years. Now I'm designed/coded more websites than I can count on my fingers, I have WAY too many video games for my own good, and sometimes I catch myself using geek slang at school. The thing that is important though, is that I still go outside. I still rough-house with my dog, I still consider just laying on the grass outside and thinking good fun. Just introduce your child to nature at a young age, and let them discover technology on your own. You shouldn't be trying to mold your child to what you want them to be, you should mold yourself. That way, they won't shun either, but enjoy both in harmony.
Back in 1995-96 timeframe, I was working as a network admin for a company. I was constantly amazed when I would encounter "normal" people that were talking about email, internet, databases and just generally using the 'nerd' vocabulary I'd been using for years as it was rapidly becoming a part of the "average joe's" lexicon.
I went to lunch at a greasy spoon diner with three other network admin buddies. The four of us were in a booth and sitting behind me was a mother with her three-year-old son. The boy started practicing his ABC's: ABCDEFG... "H" his mother chimed in, the boy continued: HIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWWWdotXYZ!
If that wasn't the last time Mountain Dew came out my nose, it was certainly the most memorable.
It was also at that moment I realized the internet was becoming part of our mainstream culture.
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
Don't avoid anything with your kids (within reason). Video games, computers, walking through the woods, baseball, you name it. It's all good. Just make sure you give then the opportunity to do just about everything and they'll naturally find their niche in the world. If it's reading books and hacking Perl, so be it. If it's sports, that's fine too.
Just don't over analyze or stress about it. Parents today (myself included) try too hard to "program" their kids for success. You have no idea what success will be for your kids, and if you think you know, odds are you are wrong. Just go with the flow and enjoy it. They grow up way too fast.
Whoever modded this as funny has obviously not lived through the experience. The future is here.
I'm a sci-fi vegan: I don't want the aliens to think we have as much right to live as the fried chickens we eat.
My 3yro daughter loves playing with the computer. She's actually pretty good at hunting and pecking words out on the querty keyboard, knows how to use a mouse, knows when and where to click on things, etc.
She also digs video games...this is where Nintendo is a real winner with us, because Zelda/Wind Waker was just her speed; she loves just sailing the boat on the water, watching the world go by...
But the point of all this is that we do all this during the early morning hours, or at night. During the day I make it a big point to 'enjoy the day' by being outside, and she really likes it, and most importantly, doesn't miss the computer/games one bit. She talks about things she did in Zelda or Mario64 (we hooked up the N64 for a retro experience and she loves it), but she works it into the play she's doing outside, never wanting to go back in and play it.
So I say it's possible to have a balance, so long as it's understood that there's a good time to do one, and not the other. On a particular rainy day we stayed in and played, but I made it understood that we're doing this because we couldn't go outside.
What are you implying? That technology isn't life? Yeah, right.
Teach your kids that a computer is a tool, and not "their lives." Children can get really caught up in computers and such, but you should let them know its a tool thats used to do certain things, and not to kill time idly all the time. Let them use the computer for educational stuff when they are younger, as they get older (enough for them to have a computer in their room) then that would be a good time to let them play games and such. Until then, it's just a tool.
Playing down at the woods/creek isn't any more dangerous now than it was when you were a kid. Let your kids play outside.
My wife won't allow our daughter to play outside unless she can physically see her the whole time because she is sooo worried about "pedophiles". Totally insane.
Also, I've noticed that my kid has her own personality and interests. You will need to become interested in things that interest your child as well as sharing your interests with him or her.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
The Matrix tries to scramble the kid as much as possible to prevent that plan from coming to fruition. There are many, many ways that this is done. Technology is one of the vectors through which this attack comes. Televisions and computers are huge time wasters; they offer virtual reward for real time and effort, and they seed messages designed to limit and alter one's perception of reality. --I've seen little kids watching VHS copies of "Sex and the City", read fashion magazines, etc., and grow into their early teens with some seriously messed up ideas which will make adult life far more difficult than it needs to be.
I'd keep kids away from wireless equipment, especially during those years when the brain is still forming. If you love your child, keep him or her away from microwave communications tech or their brains will have a much higher fudge-factor as they develop. (And for those who disagree on that point, yes, I know there isn't enough power in a microwave signal to damage cells through heating effects. It's not that simple, and the way the Telecoms deal with the real ways that the damage is done is to not talk about them at all while lamb-basting the heating and cancer claims.)
-Of course, some people are born here to learn directly from misery and thus deliberately direct themselves towards it. And that's fine, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't attempt to make the playpen clear of alligators while you are still in somewhat charge of what experiences come into your children's lives.
I'd keep computers semi-available, (Dad's laptop), but boring in the lives of kids and would certainly not have a television in the house at all. Television is hypnotic brain-rot filled with 95% lies. Period. A laptop which can play DVD's and selected programs is a better solution, where all the media is deliberately chosen by the participant, and the LCD screen does not have that same metabolism & brain-slowing effect that the cathode ray tube does.
Whatever happens, though, know that the sad/happy part is that you can't stop your kids from exploring the world, and you shouldn't try. If you refuse to have a television in the house, chances are your kid will crave TV and find ways to bridge the embargo. All rules will be broken, and that's just the way it is. But if you make it difficult, and talk openly about the realities, and if you don't mess up your kid by allowing anger and Dark Side stuff into your family, then your kid should have a much better chance of making it. Watching TV over at a friend's house automatically limits the length of time s/he can spend. Yeah, they may be watching pornos, but that's going to happen anyway. The real damage comes from long, repeated exposure. A thousand hours of prime time in your livingroom is going to cause far more damage than watching fifty hours at the neighbors' house.
Provide Love, Encouragement and Protection from the hostile aspects of world, without trying to avert your kids' eyes from what is out there. Don't attempt to, "Keep Them Innocent". Innocence is another word for "Ignorant and Naive". But for goodness sake, don't have a television in your living room, and if they want a computer, make them buy it themselves and explain to them that computers have addictive qualities and that every ounce of effort spent in this world is an investment in oneself. A broad portfolio is important for a well balanced individual.
-FL
A long while ago.. The only thing my dad ever did to stop me from using the computer is bring me to a restaurant to tell me he was removing the internet(probably so I wouldn't whine) well when I got back I searched for free internet, and found a service which appeared legit, well stupid me never thought about the long distance charges, I just put those numbers in and did anything I could to get internet... 350$ phone bill at the end of the month, he didn't even mention it and put the internet again the same day! Moral of the story : If you lose your internet, create a bigger problem :)
www.brido.com : not your average blog..
Let's hope that a non progressive future includes several varieties of "Acme Health Pellets" and bottles of "AcmeFina." I've lived on dandelions and cattails for a few days. It sucks. Young dandelion greens aren't too bad as long as you have a more neurtral green to cut the flavor. Forget it if they're old. I've also had cattail rootstalks. They taste like funky cucumbers except with more slime. Other parts are edible if you're going to be in one place for a while and are willing to work for it. I wasn't hungry enough to go after the rodents so I don't know about that. Trust me, you'll be willing to endure a ramen fueled cube slavery after a few days of being back to nature. I'd say that the hunter-gatherer thing is much more difficult than being a cube drone. Still, making raw nature your bitch is satisfying.
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
You should not try to keep you child away from technology, IMO its should just be there, that way its not "new" so there would be no reason to spend 8 hours a day on it. If your child expresses an intrest in it; show them a few things, use technology as another way to have fun with them, show them some of your code, make a family website together... In short dont try to avoid technology, use it as another way to interact with your kids.
- Shrödinger's Cat is Dead, Or is it?
I just got back from visiting family across the country.
I asked my sister's 4 year old if he wanted to play.
His reply was,"O.K. but were not playing with our bodies!"
I looked at my sister with a "Is there something I should know?" look.
She laughed, and said, "He just means he want's to play PlayStation, no running or moveing."
If I ever have kids, were going to have 1 old TV that only gets 3 stations, just like when I was a kid.
Whoever modded this as funny has obviously not lived through the experience. The future is here.
Agreed. The future is here, and for some people -- the New Poor, to borrow John Brunner's phrase -- it sucks worse than ever.
-kgj
-kgj
Jesus! Have you ever heard of something called sarcasm ? ;)
....
I actually intended half-sarcasm, half-irony. Perhaps I shaved it a bit close to the bone
-kgj
-kgj
Show them that they can use computers to make everything in their life more interesting and fun.
Go geo-caching! I don't do it myself, but I have a friend who's a new father and he says it's a great way to get the family outdoors.
Fire up googlemaps and track down your target, let them type waypoints into the computer, upload them into the GPS and go hunting. Take pictures, upload the pictures into the computer, make an album.
Then track your Geo-caching offerings online, keep a database of where that toy truck you put into a box near your house ends up (geo-caching uses encrypted serial ID's so that you can follow your contributions as they move around the world). Then get a (real)globe and put pushpins into it to chart its progress.
In short, break down the barriers between the real world and the information world. Let him/her see that it's all one big world, computers and the outside rolled into one.
I'm 16, and my dad played games since i was a little kid, and the first word he heard me read was on the computer screen (Doom lol). He always made and still does make me and my brother go bike riding with him and go outside every once and a while. Sometimes yes i do think going outside is boring, but since we still like it and do it every once and a while, so I don't think I'll grow up to be grossly obese and sitting on the computer all day.
stimulating your offspring's visual processing power can be achieved by exposing it to the complexity of natural chaos like foliage or fjord formation. however, a 19 inch screen rendering some algorithm will do the same with a lot less effort. the ability to internalize the concepts at the basis of human relations is best developped by watching cartoon network, just a little over three hours a day. Seriously: get him/her 'out there' ,avoid 'interaction' with modernity through photonic beaming, and present your knowledge sometime in their puberty when their resistance will not be futile.
Life is all about balance. Raising kids, too. Teach them as much as you like as early as you like. Just remember to balance work and play, outside and inside, free time and rules. Kids need rules and need to test them. They also need their own space. Limited of course, but their own.
You put it right.
Balance
The hardest thing about raising kids these days is building their attention span. Attention span is something that is trainable, and most technology trains it to be shorter. The attention spans of kids exposed to television and video games at an early age become dependent on the overstimulus that those media provide. They never build the ability to concentrate and pay attention to relatively boring subjects for long periods of time. As little as an hour of television a day before the age of two will cause measurable damage. I believe one of the better studies on the subject was posted here a while back.
I can't take my kids outdoors anymore because if they see a crate they bust it open for ammo/power ups.
One of the recurring themes I see in these replies is the seemingly ever-recurrent feeling older generations have that things were superior in their childhood. A strong nostalgia that seeps into parenting decisions.
Here we've heard that it's best not to use a PC until you're 7 or 8 or 13 becuase that's when "I" started using one. "I'll" make my kids play with Super Nintendos because the games were better, etc. "I" got a lot out of martial arts, so I'll make my son do it.
I don't want to point fingers, I'm well aware of often having the same thoughts myself (I'm a parent too). But I try to treat those thoughts with a grain of salt, because they're so obviously universal. I mean when I was a kid it was all about kids should read rather than watch TV, becuase that's what "I" did when I was young. Now if we're going to tell kids they should use a horribly outdated gaming console becuase it's what we enjoyed as kids, we are obviously under the control of a powerful unconscious need to nostalgize our childhood.
There are real factors to consider when raising your kids, but I think we have to be constantly wary of our instinctive tendencies, as they are often obviously skewed. Comic books didn't warp my dad, TV didn't warp me, and I'm sure the computer won't warp my son. That doesn't mean laissez-faire parenting, just that we have to work a little harder to think outside of the "parent" box.
It's all a matter of achieving a balance. Don't limit their computer use if they are doing something productive (learning how to program, for instance). Definitely limit computer games and recreational use. Keep in mind that kids can be taught very complicated things very early on, and look for any innate interests.
I think I first picked up a screwdriver and started playing with various mechanical things around the house when I was 4 or 5 years old. When I was 5 and my father taught me how to read, I started reading, among other things, old DIY electronics magazines he had laying around. My father spent lots of time explaining basic circuit theory to me, and the equipment sitting on his workbench became my favorite set of toys. The same happened with programming (I had some old machine with a BASIC interpreter being the only software on it). It's pretty much turned into a hobby and then a college major and a job.
On the other hand, I've seen plenty of smart kids figure out how to use a computer and spend all their free time playing GTA and Counterstrike (yes, these are fairly popular among kids).
It's too early for this, since you have at least a couple of years to go. But make sure that they have friends who feel welcome in your house. And that your child feels comfortable visiting his/her friends.
You can't make sure that they have a variety of friends with a variety of interests and a variety of social backgrounds, since they will pick their own friends. But you can encourage it. Living in a small country town or a proper city neighbourhood, rather than a suburb, helps here.
In doing so, you will have given up a considerable amount of influence over your child as far as details go. But, with a bit of luck, you will end up with someone who is confident, (age appropriate) fearless and willing to have a go at things. You will also, with a bit of luck again, get someone who, when they get hurt or have a setback, will pick themselves up off the floor and carry on. In my opinion, that's worth a lot more than being able to read at three.
You also need to make sure that you don't get bent out of shape by the idea that your child is off visiting someone else and you don't really know what they are doing. Sure, sometimes they will send time eating junk food and watching TV. But moderation in all things. In any case, your actual behaviour will count most of all.
(Take with an appropriate grain of salt. I'm still working on this, since my kids are 4 and 6.)
I'm a dinosaur geek...64 years old and been hacking electronics/computers/radios since I was 11...but I'm very lucky to have a 12 year old daughter, Rebecca.
Rebecca's mom is the technology coordinator for our local elementary school and I'm a consultant and designer of electronic 'stuff'. So, Rebecca has technology all around her. Her first eye-hand coordination was inserting/removing a floppy disk. I wrote little routines which challenged her with words, phrases and other coputer stuff.
Now...the balance. I live on a 95 acre nature paradise. We have ponds, nature trails and animals galore. Rebecca gets as much...maybe more!...fun from tracking animals in the snow or fishing in the ponds or wading in the ditchs for minnows as she does driving my robotic vehicle or messing with my radio equipment. She's equally adept at calling CQ DX on 20 meters and paddling a canoe.
Balance is a must. Games...I don't care what platform...are NOT the same as getting dirty or falling down or throwing a ball or putting bate on a hook.
Take your kids to the park, to a playground or any outdoor area. Fly a kite, build a kite, walk in the rain. Smell the flowers; dig in the dirt.
Equal time for technology and 'realworld' stuff.
Anything less than balance between nature and technology is detremental and damned unfair to the child.
To quote Robert Heinlein: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
As much time outside as in front of the technology...computers or radios.
And I think to illustrate the power of the real world versus the computer, I'll take him to a farm and shoot a computer when he gets older.
This is my sig.
It's a part of life. It's the same as the telephone, or lightbulbs, or even a piano. That all falls under the heading of technology for me. I have a 20-month old, and for awhile I worried about the very same thing. Then I realized it's not worth worrying about. Just do what comes naturally, they'll probably follow you, as someone else pointed out. Or not...
I'm the Dad of 5 kids (12,9,5,4,3). We have 4PCs, a PS2, 2 Nintendo 64 (one US, one Oz) and a gameboy. We also have 4 telescopes, 2 microscopes and 4 floor-to-ceiling bookcases full of books.
/.).
Of these, we have the biggest "issues" with the PS2. The two oldest can easily exhibit "addictive" behaviour with it, and we can easily have fights over it. Not so with the PCs.
We tend to use withdrawel of game machines/PCs as a consequence of unacceptable behaviour (i.e. as "punishment"). This seems to work quite well.
The eldest shows no sign of being interested in the PC as anything other than as a tool or glorified game console. The 2nd son (9) seems to be showing some signs of wanting to know how it works (he's a brilliant kid, might get a Nobel or something one day - scary brain that works far too fast for a kid of 9!!).
The younger 3 always prefer to play outside or with each other rather than with machines. The older two have finally got the idea that people are far more interesting than machines (yes, I know that's close to heresy on
Do any of them show signs of what I was doing as a kid in the 60's and 70's? Not really. Does this worry me? Not an aweful lot - it's a very different world. Are they happy? Usually. Are they good kids? Yep. Do they spontaneously show love and affection to their parents and siblings? Yes.
I dont think the amount of access they have to technology is doing that much harm. Perhaps that's because they know that ultimately life is about people and not machines.
My partner draws out a street map when she and our daughter go (walking) into town. Daughter loves guiding and being in charge of how to get to their destinations. I think she first tried this at the age of 4 and I bet children would be able to do this at an even youger age, all they need to do is recognise letters, not read per-se.
-- Free software on every PC on every desk
Or maybe a crossbow, or a bow and arrow
Then take them to the woods
The hunting instinct should take over and they should play outdoors a lot more
Don't buy them loads of ammo!
Make then retrive the used bolts/arrows
Never repair the gun
Kids just love guns!
I also vote for a balance between technology and nature. My kids are 24 and 20 and both are computer savvy but both also decided 8 years ago that they would rather spend time at a cottage on a lake in Maine (with no TV or phone but lots of books) than go to Disney World.
We ended up returning to Maine almost every summer until the youngest was out of High School. Fab fun for the whole family! My wife and I both enjoy hiking and boating and when we went to Maine, we totally left the technological world behind.
I think that's the key. As others have said, the kids will be interested in what you are interested in, so go have fun.
boyfoot_bear [with teak of chan]
Don't leave your wife and your kids when your kids are three and one year old. It messes up your wife and the kids.
:(
I know.
I'm talking from experience. I grew up without having a father I could talk to...
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
My three-year old is totally uninterested in computer games and the like. You know what he likes? Spelling words.
His favorite game is to fire up a copy of Wordpad and go to town. Usually he spells the names of Thomas the Tank Engine trains from a little sheet that lists all of them, but lately he's been spelling stuff without looking.
He's immensely proud of this, and looking over to see an entire page of
Henry is green
Thomas is blue
James is red
all of which he typed out without looking I can't say I blame him.
Don't let them obssess about it, but don't be afraid to let them play with tech as well. Then take them out bike riding- they need that too.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
And i became a geek and a outdoor lover. But then again my Mom was a hippy and my Dad an engineer. But I would say it comes down to how you raise your kids. You can show them both worlds at the same time. If done proper, they will enjoy both.
i have a cat named george. RAWR!
I highly recommend you put your kids (when old enough) into a youth group like Scouts. I joined scouts when I was 8 (22 now) and it has considerbly influenced my life. I believe if I had not been in it, I would be very shy and spend all my time indoors alone.
It has made me love the outdoors and to socialise with others, which makes a nice change from the cubicle (I'm a programmer). I'm still in it and go out and camp every other weekend. I also think that coed groups are the best (Scouts in Australia is coed).
It has given me:
- Social Skills
- Friends
- Confidence
- Leadership Skills
- Something to do away from the computer
- Direction
- Love of camping/abseiling/climbing etc
<shameless_plug>It's never to late to join most youth groups. They are always on the lookout for adults to lead the youth</shameless_plug>
best thing you could do is sell your tv's, most tv is crap
then just play with your kid, preferably outside. Teach him what you know and go with him as he explores
---- Put Sig here:
Just let them loose at all the techonology!
:-)
They'll learn by playing with it!
That's what my dad did!
23 years - Nerd - hot chicks
I guess he did pretty well
Thus, I think your difficulty will be making sure that your child enjoys a full range of activities rather than focusing on something their parent already does - keeping them away from technoloy will be the difficult bit. (I also say this because toddlers tend to focus on one activity and keep repeating it a lot - start with something early and they will lock into it almost obsessively. My daughter loves watching Wallace and Grommit so, first thing in the morning, she says 'Rabbit' (which really means Grommit because his long ears do kind of look like a bunnies), but I digress.)
... young kids, here's my advice:
no expectations.
Really, don't try too hard 'cause more often than not things will turn out differently thant you imagine.
Limit the amount of TV? Sounds good, except when your kids wake up at 6:30 and you can turn the TV on to gain another 30 mins to 1 hour of much-needed shut-eye.
Don't let them use a computer until they are 6? Sure... unless you have a few computers at home, and they see you working on them (my 3 yo sits in front of the computer, clicks away and says she's "working").
That said, I thing setting an example and sharing activities with your kids is probably the best strategy.
/* TAANSTAFL */
I do not know. Every child is different. Just do what you think is best for your child and encourage them to do the same for themselves and others.
Where's the "-1, Insane" option when you need it?
Homes, You're an increrdible person. You came to /. to consult on a child psychology matter. You're son/daughter will end up being nothing but a microsoft hating, sun bashing, sco ranting, pay distro dirt-talking, ibm muddled, De Raadt crushing, Linux "aficionado".
Your better off raising pigs. Invest some money and time in a real child psychologist.
Oh yeah, he/she is also gonna be a negative-moderating-happy-go-lucky-kid.
You need people like me so you can point your fuckin fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So what that make you? Good?
First, congratulations! Kids will change your life and though it's hard to let go of some things (like sleep and quiet evenings out) the kid trip is the absolute best!
I've been programming since I sold my first computer game in 1969 - when I was 11. But before that, I was always outdoors, too, and still would rather play games outside than on a computer. (Other than the one I wrote, I've probably spent less than 100 hours of my life playing any sort of electronic game.)
I spend 10 hours a day in front of a computer. I've got a 3.5 year old boy who is not allowed to touch the keyboard or watch TV (though we have allowed him to watch a few videos - up to an hour a day - like Thomas the Train and Nemo. And I would like it if he watched even less.
I'm not really a Waldorf School kinda guy (too rigid) but I like a concept that I heard that I attribute to them (though it may have originated elsewhere). For the first seven years of a child's life, they're learning about their bodies and the world in which they live. Part of that process invlves learning that when something near you moves suddenly, it's a good thing to react. But the Tube teaches you to sit there like a potato.
We caved on some videos because, well, we have no family around to help us with any of the work, nor the money for a nanny (and there are dangers with those too - I've seen kids that are closer with their nannys than with their parents!). So an hour of video gives my wife a much-needed break. But I enjoy watching his imaginitive play much more than seeing him sitting in fronnt of the tube. An hour is enough.
BTW, the best advice I can give for a new family is the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth. There's controvery about this, too, as the "training" period is rough on everyone. But our kid (and every other one we know that was raised with this book) is well rested, sleeps great and is not at all hyper. Oh, and ix-nay on the sugar.
Have a blast!
The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech.
-- Molly Ivins
This has meant choosing a school that supports this type of approach, and finding other like-minded families (it just happens). Most importantly it means changing yourself. Our home PC doesn't come on until the kids are asleep. Instead we read together, play board games, go to the park, etc.
As I say it seems extreme, but when schools are putting in PlayStations to get kids to excercise, I think it's time to say stop. Most of the major problems kids are having these days are influenced by their lifestyle, but no-one's doing anything about it.
As this is slashdot, I'll also add: Did Newton have a computer as a child? did Turing?
I've been a dad for 13 years (2 boys) and a programmer for well over 30yrs. Being involved in your kids lives is the biggest help you can give them. It can be very tough - especially if you are a geek. Quite easy to get over involved in work... especially when The Boss says we gotta deliver and work comes first - arent you just so happy to be in the movie/game/??? biz?
The early diaper years are NOT easy. Also it is not a good time for them to have lots of tech -especially pure screen tech. Kids need lots of input from lots of senses to develop well. Give they exposure to lots of different stuff - music is good, but be careful there are proven differences in effect of types of music. Your favorite head banger stuff is probably not what they need early on.... later maybe. Languages get imprinted early - if they hear the words at early ages, they often have an easier time picking up the language later in life.
Play with em young and get em outside, socializing (wow - you might meet people too!)
Later, look into various parent-child activities. The YMCA had a great 75+ year run with the Y-Indian programs whose main purpose was to get Dad to spend time with kids (especially outdoors). Lately the Indian theme has come under PC attack and been abandoned by most of the Y. They still have the basic program, but without the Indian theme (for better or worse - there is a lot that can be learned from those cultures, and not the least is treating other people's culture with respect)
As for games, video and tech - definately expose your kids to those too. It is part of their world and (hopefully) future. My boys are now learning to make their own web sites and video games. I play games with em - and also take em camping, biking hiking, etc.
be involved!
Interesting question, hadn't thought about it like that in awhile. I'm 26 and when I was growing up, I was one of those kids that stayed indoors playing on the computer (I got my first one, a Commodore 16, when I was 8, because *I* was interested). I still remember my parents urging me to 'get off the computer and go outside for awhile - you need your vitamin C from the sun'. To which I'd run outside for a minute and then yell out 'have I had enough vitamin C yet??' lol
Anyway, looking back on it now, computers was what I was interested in. BUT I now realise I missed out on some things, which I'm having to pick up and learn now (like good social skills). So I guess it's all a tradeoff. I think the key, as you said already, is balance, but I don't think there's an easy answer. The truth is that in today's day and age (and especially in tomorrow's), you're going to HAVE TO expose your kids to computers, they're becoming such an everyday part of life, just like TV is.
My daughter's 3.23 and although I spend all day in front of a computer and her mother spends a bit of time working at the computer we also try to get out for a bushwalk or to play paddleball (0 wall) in the park every day or so (when we're all well enough -- recently the winter bugs have been messing with that routine). She likes her electronic toys but she also loves the bush and playing make-believe with whatever she finds there (and a few plastic dinosaurs).
Regards
Mike
Me lost me cookie at the disco.
i think the fact that you're thinking about this is great, and this is probably the most interesting question i've read on ask slashdot.
i'm 23 now and i was raised in an environment that encouraged both. my dad is a EE and has worked in the industry in one capacity or another his whole life. i do not know what it is like to live without a computer.
our family also has a mountain home where we went every weekend to go hiking, mountain biking, running, skiing, sledding, backpacking....you name it.
what's the result? well, i'm training to run a marathon in October and i'm the VP of development for my own company (see my link). i've played hockey for 15 years, climbed 14ers, and i've been working as a programmer in the industry since i was 18.
i think introducing your child to technology at a young age is a good idea - in moderation. as a result, your children will be able to use technology much more easily as an adult whether they drive busses or write code that monitors nuclear reactors. either way, it's positive.
your introduction may stick with your child, or they may not be interested. if they're not interested, maybe they will be in a couple years.
outdoor activites and interest in technology is not mutually exclusive. i read another post that said your children will be interested in what you're interested in. in a broad sense, i think it's true. if you're interested in exercise/sports, your child will be more likely to enjoy it as well. Same thing with technology.
so technology isn't evil for children, but make sure their exposure to it is for intellectual pursuit versus gaming. i think most video games (not all) are just bad. they steal time and motivation from times when children could be learning or growing.
i think you should expose your children to useful technology at a slow pace and constantly execise with them. even if they don't want to exercise. i hated hiking when i was 12, i love it now. i'm glad i was forced to do it even when i hated it then.
ok. those are my two cents. congratulations on your child!
I've known people raised to never watch TV and to be outside and others who had cable tv / nintendo from a very early age and were allowed to watch as much as they wanted to. I think those without the limits turned out better. The ones who had artificial limits just seem less knowledgeable now. The ones who had freedom and who were smart moved beyond TV and nintendo, got bored, and moved into other interests yet have knowledge about popular culture. The ones who saw TV are surprisingly more creative. The ones who had TV sill read books and were often excellent students. (I was in the middle. To the extent I was given limits, I don't think I really benefitted from them.) I say expose your kids to a lot, and they'll find a nice balance themselves.
The kids two or three generations before you were not playing in the woods. They were taught how to hunt in those woods and milk a cow. They were lucky enough to make it past 13 and still be able to go to school. Times change. People change. That does not mean the older way of doing things was better and more beneficial. Its nice to change things up a bit but technology is here to stay. Hunting and trapping your own food, although still a hobby by many, is not required any longer. I know I am thinking in extremes but sometimes that helps to see the smaller changes.
Anonymous Coward writes: The world as you know it,
based on diesel-fueled trucks delivering food to
a local market near you, will cease to exist when
oil becomes too expensive. Your children and
grandchildren won't know the world you live in.
Electricity, water from faucets, sewers, water
treatment, medicines, plastic, civil services
in general, just won't exist. Go somewhere like
India or China today to find out how the USA will
be in the future without oil. And you're concerned
whether your child should go outside? Heh.
Your kid is 4 months old? Stop worrying about what technology you'll introduce first, a year or two from now, and enjoy watching him (her?) roll around the floor and make "bah gah dah" noises.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
Hey, do not think about this again!
They will follow your model. Do not make them your clone (yes, they are already were). The should have their own life.
A most insightful response from a most intelligent human being, good [sir/madam/miss].
~UP
Eat the Path.
I work for a research university's College of Education so I get to see a lot of fundamental research on kids and their interaction with various technologies.
The prevailing consensus among early childhood researchers is that TV does young kids no good, and possibly is harmful. What to do? Read to them. Then read to them again. And then read to them so more. Start right now.
As far as "educational technology" toys go, most of them are laughably weak as instructional tools and rarely follow any pedagogical methodology backed by research.
The cognitive skills needed to comprehend information presented on computers, "learning toys," and video games take quite a while to develop. Surprisingly, even 2 year olds still don't extrapolate that something happening on TV is representative of something that happens in the real world.
Your child's "job" is to learn to participate in the world around him/her. At 4 months gross motor skills are your child's priority. As he gets older, language development will become more important and interacting with others will become paramount. The technology you use will be of (passionate) interest to your child-telephones, cars, microwave ovens, the spray handle in the sink, Tupperware containers, peeling off the safety seals on food containers, spinning the wheels on the stroller, you name it. Kids learn by watching and mimicking the adults in their lives, so they will assign importance based on observing you.
My 2 ½ year old likes that he can control the mouse on our computer. He's not really using the computer, but loves that the cause and effect relationship is under his control. At this point he'll give me about 5 minutes of computer time before he wants to go outside and "play" basketball, water the flowers, or ride his trike. He's seeing me and his mom use technology as an integral part of our day and I hope balance is what he learns. The most important thing is that he does it with me.
Be mindful of the example you are setting. Children are the masters of doing what you do...and ignoring what you say.
hi-
one thing i haent seen brought up here is the difference between good technology and bad technology. I agree that letting your kids sit in front of the tv or computer all day is bad, but what about letting your kids take apart the TV/Computer and learning how it works (if theres motzart for babies, why not A+ cert?). I think this with a healty dose of outdoors time would make a very well rounded young adult
My oldest son would sit on my lap and he would shoot and jump and I would control the movements. It was a great way for us to spend a little time together.
I'm a computer professional and spend many hours a day in front of a computer both at the office and at home. This was a way for him to share in my daily activities and give me a much needed break from work. We would also go outside and play; fly kites together, go camping, nerf and water gun battles, hiking, play chess, cards, and lots of other things.
Today, 5 years later, he still plays computer games and he still goes outside to play. He has also combined the two, when he plays outside with his friends sometimes he will pretend to be some of the characters from the games, just like other kids would pretend to be comic book characters when I was young.
I and everyone who meets him thinks he is a well rounded, polite, responsible kid and he has demonstrated to me beyond any paternal pride that he is an outstanding person.
A few hours a week in front of the computer isn't going to hurt him at all and his familiarity with common UI's may even help him. I am a bit lucky as he is starting to show an interest in how the games work and I will likely start him with basic programming skills soon, if his interest continues.
He has a younger brother five years behind him and I will very likely do just the same thing.
You will just have to watch your kids and pay them attention. If you do that it won't matter if they spend a more time in front of a computer or digging in the dirt, so long as it is time spent with you, that is what really counts.
to have your kids start playing games from the start, especially if they really want to. I was one of the kind who had always loved playing video games from the beginning. I still liked other things, but if there was a game, I wanted to play that, not play outside. This was simply because I was never allowed to have a game system. So spending time at friend's houses was not productive and rather anti-social. I liked hanging out with them at school, but if I went to their house, playing the game was #1. Maybe I just have a chemical makeup more succeptable to games than others, but I think if I had grown up with them, I would have gotten tired of them a lot faster. But when I finally got my gameboy, I absolutely loved it to death, and wanted to play it all the time. Because I wasn't accustomed to the fun of Super Mario Land, all I could appreciate when I had it was it. Rather an addiction. It [gaming] really caused problems all through middle school and halfway through highschool. Since I wanted to play games over do homework or do schoolwork, it really made school and chores even worse. When I wasn't playing a new game, I wanted to think about it. But once I had played the best games from all the different genres on the N64 and current gen systems, my gaming time took a plummet. Suddenly I felt games were a waste of time unless I was having a blast every second I was playing. This realization has been a good thing. Instead of settling for something sorta fun, I have really high tolerance for fun...so if something doesn't entertain me, I move on to something that does. what I'm ultimately finding is that all the things that we usually don't like when we have a good video game are ultimately much more fun and engaging and lasting than a video game....because we put more of ourself into it...not quantity, but quality as well. If I had had games from the beginning, I think I might have gotten to that realization faster and been much more ok with doing work my sophmore year, like I was my Sr. year (of highschool). Knocking myself out on games helped force me to go for the maximum pleasure/joy/happiness possible...and I simply find that most in _applying myself_ over passivly gaming. On the other hand, having been through so much gaming during such fundamental developement stages of my life caused me to play with less friends...and thus I am lacking in the social skills department and am left trying to catch up...listening to others, being sensitive, learning to be the leader my wife will want me to be (growing out of passive mode where I let others take the initiative in everything and actively pursuing what the better choice is, like I'm trying do now lol). So I think games have been good for me in an Anakin->Luke balancing of the force sort of way. But I think if you do intro your kids to them early, you really should limit their time and make them go play outside. But don't get them crap games...get them really high quality games so after they finish those they won't have anywhere to go but working at enjoying other things.
I am a high school teacher. If I have one thing about kids today that infuriates me, it's that they don't read. I wonder half the time if they even can at all. I teach history (I'm a geek by avocation!!) and am shocked at the absolute refusal of so many to read. Not "I don't get it", but "f*** it, I'm not going to read it". If they don't even touch a computer, they'll be fine. Really. What is a computer but a simple tool really. I code for fun. Some do for profit. Fine. For most, it's a tool. Type a paper, check email, etc. Things like an OS, browser, email client, etc., mean nothing. (Which is why microsoft is really scared. Once people actually figure it out...)
Anyways, take them fishing, hunting, skiing, etc. Have them play sports, read books, write poetry. Whatever. Teach them to cook. The technology we need is an MRI in a hospital not an Xbox in the living room. My dad is 67 or something. He never touched a computer until he reitred a few years ago. Now, he uses the computer like a pro.
And since this is father's day (btw, I have three myself), the best you thing you can do is be their father. Whatever you have to do is not more important than them. I'm 36 and still fish with my old man. There's a reason. Buy him a hundred books, read a hundred books to him, take him to a hundred ball games, take him fishing a hundred times, play a hundred games of candyland (or whtever game), do a hundred other things a hndred times before you buy him a computer.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
/. instead of ./ ?
I'm surprised I didn't see it mentioned, but join the boy scouts. Make sure you don't get a wimpy troop thats too hung up on rules and regulations though, if there are no cool troops near you, start one. I'm an eagle scout and so are my two brothers, my dad was actively involved in scouts. He was at every meeting and went on almost all the hikes and camp outs. It teaches your kids good values, and many practical skills. It will include most of the stuff mentioned before too, if you want it to.
There will be a time when scouts is uncool and the kids hate it, but if you get them through it, they will be glad. Scouting is amoung the best of my childhood memories.
As for the answer to your question: your kids will pick things up from you, their mother, your parents, her parents, each other, school, their peers, and the media. Balance will happen all by itself.
A big plus, I consider, is to pass on a sheer love of learning and a self-confidence in their learning ability. Then they can take that attitude with them everywhere, inside, outside, at work, at home, and throughout their lives. Computers will just be one more thing to explore.
IMHO, you just don't have to force your kid into using/not using. Show them the good bits, and show them other stuff too. You want them to practice sports, make your kid choose the sport, or musical instrument, OS, progging lang. That's the way I know I like the violin, C, tennis and Linux, because I had the chance to choose. Also, don't tell your kid not to liten to this and that music, just avoid the "bad ppl" yourkid might hang out with (And don't stereotype, most smart/good people I know are punks and metalheads)
Tordek, Dwarven Warrior - Juegos de Rol en Argentina
When they reach the age to have a good computer, they're probably old enough to work for it. Then pay them to them work outside (lawns, gardens, etc.). Or pay them to "volunteer" with a local parks program with you.
They will need a computer for schoolwork; but they don't need a good one to websurf and write papers. This culture seems to think that kids absolutely require all the latest in technology, clothes, cars and toys to turn out OK.
THEY DON'T!!! Give them a crap computer, some good books, and lots of your time. When they're old enough to escape your clutches and buy their own computers, let them. But don't enable them with the latest in games and toys. If YOU have them around the house, then remember, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!.
... grumble, grumble, grumble, mutter, mutter, Millenium... Hand... Shrimp, I tol' 'em, I tol' 'em.
My kids grew up learning how to handle floppys from the time they were in diapers. There was computers all over the house on two desks and the coffee table. The kids had computers in their rooms. I thought since I was in the business and it was all new, they would get a good head start. They are all in their 20's now and all three of them want nothing to do with computers. The daughter is a 'back to nature'60's hippie. The boys are craftsmen who enjoy working with their hands. All of my kids think computers are ho-hum and of no more use than they were when they were kids. Let them find their own interests, and support and love them for whatever they do.
Bows and plows are technology too. Maybe what you need is to think about wich tech makes sense for your kid to learn first.
It's called evolution. Try to keep them from hurting themselves. Other than that, foster their interests and let them grow into the people they are.
I agree with other posters that it's largely about the example you set and keeping a balance.
I have 4 kids 13, 12, 10 and 9. The eldest (boy) hates sport and spends a lot of time on the computer and vaguely hopes to write computer games when he grows up. So I educate him on how to program. Now he knows what programming's about he wants to be a graphic artist (for games, of course). It's early days yet.
Daughter at 12 loves the Sims2 but loves playing outside and animals. She chats to her school friends online and hates RPG or FPSs.
10 yo boy is brilliant at getting through RPGs with minimal time (somehow only doing 1/5th of the things you're meant to do - game designers have to cater for little kids who are impatient I guess), he loves Warcraft but loses ever time when playing online. Thankfully he plays three different sports. He'll probably be the lead singer in a band or a soccer player!
10yo is the smartest of the lot by far and really doesn't like computers at all. He builds electronic kits (which we do together) and he reads and makes cubby houses in the back yard.
They're all different and all see me working on the computer from time to time and realise it's just another profession.
So if you're a new dad don't sweat too much because there's time to sort it out a little later - as long as you have a good relationship with your kids. Show by example that when you're needed away from the computer that you can walk away and attend to whatever (wife, kids etc). Also, just because you like computers doesn't mean they will and there's nothing wrong with that.
The only tech thing I insist on is my kids have a good general knowledge. They know in general how a computer or tv or radio or mobile phone works, they can spot spam email, they know locations of 20 or more major countries on a map of the world, know how to behave in a resturant, they know how to modify their behaviour if required when relating to other people, they know why fast food isn't generally good for you, what the stockmarket is and (broadly) how it works, how to calculate change exactly in the shop and question if it's wrong and that school stops after university (if they want to) but they have to start earning something to pay board when they finish high school.
These are the general knowledge ground rules children need to survive (in my opinion - they may beg to differ I'm sure once they're older!). I'm a strong believer in teaching them enough so they can make their own educated guesses about the things they'll face in life ie they need to know *how* to think, not *what* to think.
Above all is a need to be able to relate well with other people. Repeated studies show that ability to relate to others and handle your own feelings (emotional intelligence) is a far greater predictor of future success in life than general IQ type intelligence (or education).
Also(!) remember that by the time your kids are 8 or so then their internal thinking and personality, morals, ethics etc are pretty much set for life. From then on the child you knew is subsumed by the growing adult intellect which will forever by tainted/guided by that underlying child. It is very much worth getting it right in the early years because it is so hard (and painful) to make changes later in life (even as a teenager) though not impossible.
pithy comment
This happens a lot. It's like when man discovered fire: The technology was beneficial and all, but suddenly, people were using the fire to cook things all the time and refusing to eat bacteria-covered raw meat. It was very bad for tradition.
It's always appalling when a kid does this sort of thing: Doing what he wants and not living in misery under your thumb. What I think you should do is put special locks on their cages to make sure they don't get to the computer at night, and tie them to trees first thing in the morning to make sure they get their alloted exposure to the sun and plants. When they say they don't like being outdoors, remember that a bag of oranges can cause a lot of pain without leaving a mark for the police to see.
Make them plow the garden on occasion, tend to the sheep, and they'll have to learn to hunt buffalo sooner or later. They'll be running around happily outside the cave in no-time!
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
Give them a camcorder or a digital camera. They'll balance indoors/outdoors rations themselves if you do. Or at least for the first hour.
Of course, I myself am a kid and want a reason to get my parents to spoil me with a better camera than my crappy 35mm point-n-snap.
here is some of my experience.
I had a similar childhood. Grew up in a small town. Lots of playing in the woods, camping, building stuff, etc... Would not trade that for the world.
Firstly, you must not set any expectations early. Your kid might not give a hoot about tech. At first this hurts, but this will pass. Consider it a chance to live vicariously through your kids interests. You will find their youthful spirit is catchy. The end result might be some new hobbies. The geek mindset applies to most anything, bits or not.
And that reveals the most important gift you can give; namely, the ability to learn on ones own. This is what makes most of us who we are. If you can keep that young mind open and flexible, your kids will be ahead of most of the others when they start their own lives.
My own kids mostly use tech and are good at it, but don't care about it the way I do, so I've already had to practice what I just wrote and it works!
As for introducing the tech, you need a healthy mix. I do lots of kid sports during the good times of the year and lots of tech/projects during other times. The feeling you get after helping your kid through a winning sports season is well worth the time spent getting there. Does wonders for bonding too. (The exercise is good as well.)
For non-networked tech, give them a long leash and an open door. They will make mistakes and learn as we all did. Do everything you can to set the right expectations and instill proper perspective on things. There is learning in everything including failure. Very few things are the end of the world. Proper perspective is important in this regard.
For the Internet, you gotta surf with your kids, plain and simple. The net is not always a nice place and the sooner they know that the better. They are going to find pr0n and other nasties. When they do, your job is to help them make sense of things and make good choices. Stumbling onto something does no harm, given an honest parent child relationship. In my house, there are no taboos. All discussion is on the table. I've had my kids bring me to the computer, asking how to avoid what they are seeing and they value the answers. I'll take that any day over simply hiding it and blazing forward while building both ignorance and fear...
I'll warn you straight up, actually doing what I just said is tough. It's a little easier with kids of the same gender, but all kids are going to ask stuff that's really hard to relate to and give good answers on. Your answers mean a lot. Scale those answers within age and maturity appropriate bounds, but do not give disinformation you plan to correct later. Much better to give solid info, but limit scope until they learn enough to ask with more precision. The level of trust you get from this will pay off huge when they are teens. Don't be afraid to say, I don't know and do some digging with them. If all else fails, call the wife and get it done if necessary, but don't deny them that open door. You will need it for their teens.
That means, drugs, sex, pr0n, chat, crime, religion, etc... all need to be honest and open discussions with pros and cons clearly stated, along with your position and why. That's a lot harder than it seems, but again well worth it.
Some disinformation is ok, santa claus, easter, etc... is all good fun and perfectly ok, IMHO. Other things are a bit more touchy.
Within limits, let them make a few choices and live them (as long as it does no harm.) You both will learn new things. --I sure have!
Getting them onto the net with the right ethic and trust is one thing. Letting them go freely is another. They will setup their own e-mail and IM accounts. They will have conversations on these that maybe worrysome. At first, I limited this to times when I was around. After that became too much of a hassle, I chose to let them know what I was capable of and that they would be caught doing bad things. When they were younger, I let them kno
Blogging because I can...
All the other posts have provided help already, but I haven't seen this yet: - read Mindstorms, by Seymour Papert.
Out of mod-points when there's something truly insightful...
Black holes are where God divided by zero
Give a kid laptop with long lasting battery plus a wi-fi and throw him outdoors. You solve all the problems ;)
Don't sweat it. Each batch of kids has been exposed to some terrifying new technology that was guaranteed to ruin them forever.
Comic books
TV
Dungeons and Dragons
Video Games
Computers.
Guess what, each batch of kids has grown up to be OK.
The exercise thing - a real issue, but probably cars have more to do with that than anything else.
Provide your kids a range of activities and let em have some fun.
Breath in.
Breath out.
Relax
Enjoy 'em while you have 'em.
Well, technology is everywhere and sooner or later they will come in contact with it.
First it will be TV and cartoons and then video/DVD and then maybe later game consoles and computers.
No need to introduce them to it, they will eventually sooner or later get in contact with computers and learn how to use them.
You should encourage them to practice sports though, because today kids dont do much of that and its good, sitting infront of the computer all day is bad.
They will see that you are spending time infront of the computer and naturally get curious.
This post is a bit late, I hope there are still moderators around.
This is not about technology. Small children shouldn't be playing around with knives, which is a very old invention, but it's ok to play around with brand-new technology inventions from LEGO.
It's about addiction. Addictive is, when you keep needing more and more. This includes video games, television, sugar in food (some people forget that) and some toys which have been designed to make you addictive to buying more (like collecting stupid cards).
There are many ways to prevent addiction, but as far as I experience it, sugar in food is actually an important part of this. Children who get much sugar, by drinking it, eating it or somehow else, are usually much harder to control. A kid who just emptied a big glass of something that contains sugar is much harder to get away from a playstation, than a kid who drinks water.
I tried to make a family, that I know well, give their children water instead of a sugar/flavor/water mix. The result was that their kids behaved much better, but had the same level of activities. The results were amazing. It was also much easier to make them sleep at night afterwards and to make them eat their food at Dinner.
This should all be very well documented, btw, although I cannot provide any URLs right now.
Keep them locked up in the house with the gizmos. When they hit their teens they'll rebel by heading off on flyfishing trips, trapping racons, and cooking possums in the backyard in an old cast iron pot.
Kids just do that.
If your goal is to turn them into geeks, you need to take them camping and fishing NOW!
seriously, just do stuff with your kids. mine 20 and 21 head off for sailing fishing and crabbing every chance they get. they've just recently discovered NYC and plan a couple of weeks exploring this summer. both ride bicycles for local transportation. one is off to Europe for a year this fall. they got their sense of adventure and doing things as little kids. we took them camping, sailing, and fishing and taught them to navigate around the city(Atlanta) using mass transit when they were little.
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
Khalil Gibran
-----------
Dont overdo the anxious parent bit. If you show love, care, concern and spend time with your child, they should turn out alright. While they need some outdoor and indoor activity, you cannot fine tune and control their predisposition too much.
O this learning! What a thing it is - William Shakespeare
In a normal household, kids introduce the technology to you!
I am an ancient programmer so I was not an early adopter of any electronic device with buttons smaller than my fingers. I was a unix kind of guy so I made but light and userly use of Windows apps on the household menagerie of PCs. By the time my oldest boy was in highschool, he was reprogramming all our vcrs, had discovered every accelerator key for every windows app and had got the vcr, dvd and nintendo wired together so we allways had to ask for help if we wanted to watch a movie.
Now a college sophmore, he's cracked his iPod, can diagnose hardware faults on his PC right down to the bad jumper or loose power connector and knows the right mic to buy for his recording studio PC that he is constantly rebuilding. He has a cracked version or two of various OSes, [ehem!] and boots knoppix or mepis when he has managed to break a windows install. When his girl friend spilled coffee on her iBook, she took it to him for disassembly and cleaning.
If I want to know whats better about ATRAC vs MP3, or if I should have RAID on my next machine, I ask him. He also brings our cable connection to its knees now and then with his P2P operation.
No, not to worry dad, all you have to do is wait a few years and be handy with the check book. Happy Fathers day!
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
There is no trade off between out door play and computer play. Kids will do them both naturally. You'll find that your kid will still roller blade, ride bikes, play pick games. You can't stop it and you won't have to encourage it. The computer is simply essential to modern life. If you provide the computer the kid will play with that too. The TV, a.k.a, the one eyed baby sitter, is the more likely the negative factor in learning and growing. Good luck.
Over here in the UK they are so obseesed with people having computer skills that they are made use the things in primary school (ages 5-13) anyway.
First of all, don't worry about it just yet -- the kid's only about 4 month old after all :-)
My kids are 2 and 4 and yes they play with the computer sometimes. But only sometimes.
And while we parents still have some control over them, we don't plan to let them sit at the computer for hours and hours on end!
Computer fun is an exception for them. TV fun is a bit more regular, but also not too frequent.
And when we say no, it is no.
cheers and have a great time with your kids,
--Tim
FREE KEVIN!
Not much to add here, but let me just go ahead anyway...
... anything). But, mind you, some of my friends from even more remote villages knew much, much more. In the evening, the only thing that could pull me away from my usual three hours of bare-footed soccer was the call to dinner. After that, it was just family time.
/. afterall). Like I said, life was simple. TV was next to useless - it didn't even come on until 4pm, and only until midnight! All this video game stuff? You were lucky to have electricity!
... you know, simple things.
I actually grew up in Africa, and I am actually glad I did. We didn't have much at all. This problem you guys have about technology taking over your lives... that wasn't even an option for us. But that is about the only positive thing about that. The good use of technology (as a tool, not as an end in itself, like someone already mentioned) can be very useful. But back to the point. Like I said, there wasn't much to do. I had a neighbour who was quite about three years older. Really, really smart guy. He didn't have much going on either. Looking back, he was a very good influence (fortunately for me). He was into art - one very fine artist... would draw the most elegant pictures of any animal with such ease... I remember he had several pictures all over his room. Anyway, a few times a week, we would just walk down to the library in the evenings and read up on cool stuff. I thus gained an interest in science. The more I learned, the more voracious I became to learn more. Soon enough, I was doing my own experiments. Before I knew what was going on, I was proving basic mathematical theorems which left my mother stunned. I could just see my way through mathematical ideas. I was about nine.
Anyway, growing up in the village, there wasn't much else to do. When on holiday, I usually read something, anything, in the morning and early afternoon. I admit I was just a little bit more into the books than the average person, but it felt good to learn different things (math, science, history, Shakespeare, scripture, culture,
Life was simple. Like everyone else, I had my crush on my dream girl (a girl in my class that I still believe is the most beautiful girl in the world). But I digress. (This is
I never saw myself as lucky growing up that way. We all wished for much more. It is only now that I understand the advantage of simplicity.
Instead of all the hustle and bustle, we spent time with family and friends, played soccer, ate wonderful food, enjoyed nature, read, thought, wrote,
But as a result, I inevitably learned and gained a great deal because I had the time and peace of mind to learn and do the most fundamental of things.
You can actually have too much in your life. Slow down, simplify (for yourself and for the family), do what is meaningful, find peace.
I am a step/father to eight kids, six of which are under 18 and live at home. All of them have been bitten by the technology bug and would spend every waking hour at the computer or playing console games, listening to streaming music, or IM-ing if they could. I have to employ a combination of approaches and controls to make sure they spend more of their time in the real world than in the virtual world. The summer is a really big challenge with the kids not being in school. We have a no tech period(no TV/no computer/no Video Games) during the day (from 10 am till 4 pm) on weekdays when they have to play outside or do art or play board games, anything that forces them to engage the real world rather than a screen. And there's chores, or course. I have to secure controllers during that time. I have the ability to remotely shutdown the common computer from my room (where I have my work computers ;) ).
Last summer I scheduled a task to disable internet access between midnight and 6 am. One of my kids realized that by changing the computer system clock he could circumvent those controls. I didn't know whether to be proud of him for his ingenuity or revoke his computer privileges.
But resorting to ubergeekish, control-freak behavior is not enough. It's more important to show kids that the real world can be just as interesting and engaging as the simulated ones. And of course this involves the presence of the parent him/herself and engagement with the kids.
I have a 26 year old that had to drop out of grad school because of social anxiety disorder. I got her the original NES with SuperMario Bros. Then the Super NES, gameboy, and N64. She graduated high school as valedictorian.. graduated college with a dual degree. I didn't see any harm at the time. Then, in her 3rd year of a doctorate, she had to drop out because she couldn't finish a requirement in which she had to interact with strangers. She was too use to doing all her interaction with geeks on forums talking about RPG's. She had no social life. Most free time was spent behind a screen. Now with some counseling, drugs and game banishment, she's getting better. If I had to do it all over again I would have pushed dolls in her hands instead of electronics. My bad! Don't make the same mistake!
I'm a "country geek", grew up on a dairy and was introduced to computers at a young age by my mom who was a school teacher. I think I never thought of the computer as a toy, rather as a tool with infinite possibilities; and that's what I want my kids to think.
I've got two boys, 4 and 1, who LOVE to be outside because (I believe) that my wife and I model that behavior. We spend all our fee time hiking, camping, mountain biking, at the beach, taking in outdoor festivals (ROTR, etc), and the like. Yeah my four year old thinks daddy's computers are neat, he knows how to use the web to look ar Nick Jr.com and a huge archive of bug pictures he loves, but it's not an obsession (yet). I do want them to think that UNIX is cool, but I would be much happier if they picked up the djembe first.
My goal is to keep things as they are, with the computer supporting their offline activities. Video games.. not sure yet, but if they're inside more than out I'll throw the damn thing out the window. Instead I hope to get them hooked on music, my oldest is already trying the guitar and we've got some small drums for the kids as well. My wife and I both play, and the kids dance, sing, and join in. Additionally, I try to keep my geekly activities confined to work and/or after the kids go to bed; again the whole modeling thing.
I'm also lucky, my employer lets me work a VERY flexable schedule, I'm in @ 7 and home by 4. (I live 5 miles from work) This allows me to spend some time in the mornings with them, as well as most of the afternoon. I can also work 4x10 if I please to give me some added weekend time. Ask your employer abut this, it's been a great boon to both my marriage and family life.
That's my 2 cents...
"The chief enemy of creativity is 'good taste'" -Pablo Picasso
As someone who grew up resenting nature, I can tell you know the problem won't be balance, it'll be finding ways to introduce your children to nature that don't drive them away from it.
Here are some things not to do:
DON'T force your children to go outside and play simply because you think they need to spend sometime outside. Instead, try to come up with reasons why they would WANT to go outside and play.
DON'T tell your children that you aren't going to get them something they want because they 'spend too much time playing with X already, you should go outside more'. That just makes them resent it even more.
DON'T assume that just because you like to camp every week, they do too. Even children want their own time, where they can make their own choices.
Here are somethings to DO:
DO go out and play with your children. If they associate spending time outside with fun, rather than a chore, then they are more likely to want to spend more time outside.
DO limit your purchases, a new game comes out almost every week. Remind them they still have other games to play. Keep them on a budget and let them choose what games they want to get.
DO let them participate in planning the family weekends. If they feel like it was their choice to go camping, then they are far less likely to resent the time spent doing it.
DO realize that you can still over do it. Not everyone needs to be so in tune with nature than small forest creatures follow them around.
On the other hand you can go online and see countless pictures of bears, read about bear behavior, study the laters papers on bear biochemistry (the biochemistry of hibernation is fascinating) and so on. Just seeing an animal from a distance is a poor substitute for the real thing: knowing and understanding bear biology. Even watching a program about bears on the Discovery Channel will give you as much insight about bears as watching real bears close up for months. (Of course it does, Discovery Program channels are the fruit of someone else's years of observation distilled down into 60 minutes of television.)
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
And that made me do a double-take. Where does this come from? Seriously, I'd be interested in reading it.
Hm. I thought everybody knew about how television affects people on a physiological basis.
Basically, the 60 cycles per second flicker of a CRT screen has a measurable (via EEG) hypnotic effect on the viewer.
I did a quick look around for you, and here are a couple of articles which seem to cover the basics. .
Essay with numerous details and references.
And, here.
And a page with some research foot notes here.
This is a pretty amazing subject and I honestly thought everybody knew about it and simply made the choice to zone out regardless. But then again, I guess they don't go to much effort to teach this through the television media, eh? There appears to be a story or two of researchers having their funding cut when they began to come up with boat-rocking results.
-FL
Laughter is the cheapest method of denial. What specifically do you have issues with? I can try to explain if you are interested.
-FL
Yes, it is a matter of balance, theirs, not yours. Some kids get totally absorbed and want to do nothing else while others couldn't care less. As their parent, it is up to you to manage their lives so they achieve a balance and (more importantly) learn to manage their own lives to attain a balance. As they mature, gradually allow them more and more control, and be willing to disipline them when they don't manage themselves somewhere in the range of acceptable balance. (heck, this advise pretty much applies to everything, not just high tech stuff).
As for specific guidelines, I wouldn't give them much in the way of high-tech toys or time until they were around 5-6 years old. Those early years are when kids learn their social skills, and depriving them of opportunities to learn those skills will result in them having a more difficult time of the social aspects of their lives later on. Social skills (including speech itself) can pretty much only be learned via face time with people and trial and error. Once they learn how to play nice with the other kids, and how to have and keep friends, then consider the high tech stuff. If they get sucked in and start to forgo the social aspects of their lives, that's too far out of balance, and you will need to rein them back to get them to pick a difference balance point.
Wassamatter, never heard of Geocaching?
...while in the middle of the *woods*.
You get outside *and* you get to play with technology gadgets. A little more reading up on it and you can even go on about satellites, time-difference signals, calculating parabolic intersections, and all that boring geeky stuff...
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
This took some time to fish out. You might want to read Everything Bad Is Good for You: How Today's Popular Culture Is Actually Making Us Smarter by Steven Johnson He makes a very convincing case for why TV and other gadgets are actually good for kids. I also have a brother-in-law who now hates camping due to the excessive camping his dad took him for every vacation. It is important to realize that your kids are separate personalities and not everything which suited you, may suit your kids.
Silicon Snake Oil by Cliff Stoll is the best book I've read about technology deadening us to the real world. It deals a lot with technology and children, but one of the most memorable parts of the book talks about the author's experience with software dulling the learning process in grad school.
Make the kids go outside!
They'll have plenty of time to pickup the tech stuff.
Get them used to being outside, doing things outside, doing things with you. Get them started on a healthy lifestyle.
It's funny, when I was a kid, if my parents caught me inside on a nice day they'd stick me with chores to do. Nowadays it seems people are working too much, they don't even have the time to dish out and deal with the kids doing chores, so they kids stay inside as much as they want.
http://slashdot.org/~tf23/journal
Please realise that a lot of our attitude towards nature is shaped by our past. People were animals, then they were farmers, of course they considered nature important. But now - how many trees can you recognize? How many bird species? Do you think that's important knowledge?
What use is nature to modern people today? It can be healthy to spend time there (better air, less noise), it can be a pleasant environment, it is a place to carry out some activities (paragliding, fishing), but that's pretty much it.
The kids refuse to go outside for a reason and you stated it yourself. It's just pretty damn boring to sit in the middle of the forest. Kids in the past didn't have Internet, computer games, DVD players and Disneyland - that's why they had to go outside and play with a stick pretending it's a horse, not because it's so terribly funny and engaging and not because it was so great outside. And they had to do it uphill both way too.
It is perfectly rational to spend less time outside and prefer technology to nature, so don't force the outdated values on your kids. Consider that according to most adequate forecasts we will be able to spend time in convincing virtual reality simulations by 2015-2020. Simply put, what's the point of going outside today?
Obviously, you should not, as another poster suggested, jack them into the Matrix already. Take them outside sometimes, go to the countryside, take boat trips, go to forests, to parks, etc., but don't try to overemphasise that and don't even think about preventing access to technology. Computers are the books of today - and just as it would be idiotic 3000 years ago for a father to stop his kids from reading until they were 13, so it limiting access to technology for modern kids (it goes without saying that you should influence what they watch, what they read and what they play).
BTW, the book (that ironically blames "sensationalist media coverage") appears to be sensationalist bullshit itself. There are no paranoid parents in other countries and yet it's normal that urban people spend less time in the woods. They wouldn't be much of urban people otherwise.
If you want to raise a well-adjusted kid, do what normal people do (I don't know if you are exposed to normality much in the States). While the kid is young, take him outside (don't expose to direct sunlight, though, or the warranty is void) in a baby carriage for brief periods of time (read a child rearing book). Go in park or something. When he is older, make sure that there is some place to play outside, ride a bike or something. Take him to some countryside trips a few times a year. Spend some time every year in a resort with "nature" around.
But please, I dare you, don't think for a second that something terrible might happen if you child is not outside for 12 hours every day. It's normal for kids to spend hours in front of the PC or a TV. Yes, it's not great for the health (and you should ensure that they prefer watching good DVDs to mindlessly consuming TV drivel), but it won't kill them. Don't look for any "balance", that would be idiotic - just take them outside sometimes so that they don't forget what it's like, that they get enough exercise and are exposed to sun for 15 minutes each day (hands and face is enough) to get their dose of vitamin D. That's it - trust me, they will be fine.
It's much more important and more difficult to raise intelligent children that love to learn. Get them reading ASAP and then they will be able to sit with a book (or a PDA/Tablet) near the nearest lake, waterfall, pasture or swamp.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
this came from one of my readers recently who said she was taking up this campaign to honor of a loved one who died as a result of domestic violence. btw the asterix in the note below is the equivalent of two fairly ordinary, decent, straight-out-of the schoolroom words. when they are typed into google as one word, the returns are pure Yuck from a parental standpoint. - an open letter to AOL June 2005 Dear sir or madam, Please search on the word * in the AOL browser and take note of the results. Are you aware that this kind of content was being made accessible to AOL users? I am a writer and web developer who has spent the past six years trying to make sense of human interaction on the web. If this is the direction the Internet is leading us, I almost want to go get a job washing cars instead. On the side, I could hand out flyers that said "Parents! Be sure to keep your kids off the Internet!" Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.
Just finished it; absolutely great read.