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Introverts Have More Brain Activity?
* * Beatles-Beatles writes to tell us Yahoo News is reporting that introverted individuals tend to have more brain activity in general, specifically in the frontal lobe. From the article: "The attitude that there's something wrong with introverted people is widely shared in society, where fast talk and snap decisions are often valued over listening, deliberation and careful planning. Extroverts seem to rule the world or, at least, the USA, which hasn't elected an introverted president for three decades, since Jimmy Carter."
A. Stop posting stories submitted by this Beatles link spammer. He's using Slashdot to boost his Google pagerank.
B. The first President Bush was an ISTJ and thus an introvert.
I'm recycling a comment from another AC in another Scuttlemonkey/**Beatles-Beatles post. This guy's getting worse than Roland Picklepail:
Am I the only person who has noticed the numerous stories that get posted by *--Beatles-Beatles? Am I also the only person who has noticed that the link used in is name is a constantly changing URL (depending on the story) with pointers to various scammy sites? Is it not obvious what he's doing? He's using the awesome PageRank of slashdot do promote his sites based on searches that have the word Beatles in them.
It's a small price to pay for free advertising. Find a story, summarize it in 5 minutes, post to slashdot, and get a pagerank boost that advertisers would pay hundreds (or maybe thousands) for. (Text links on high-ranking sites is big business - just ask oreilly).
Slashdot should at least put a ref=nofollow in the links to submitters (or better yet, only link the submitter's name to his/her user page).
In closing, a quick bit of WHOIS shows that all the sites linked by **B-B are registered to Carl Fogle. Carl, cut this crap out.
"...fast talk and snap decisions are often valued over listening, deliberation and careful planning..."
:v)
Maybe on your side of the pond, mate.
Vik
He's history's greatest monster !!!
Extroverts try to convince everyone how smart they are. Introverts assume everyone already knows it.
Glog!
"All jocks ever think about is sports - all nerds ever think about is sex."
...presented badly. Why of WHY did you have politicizing this subject?
Life is not for the lazy.
A fast talking presedent isn't always an accurate one ;)
A while back I read an article in The Atlantic titled "Caring for Your Introvert" by Jonathan Rauch. Absolutely great piece.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
I'm introverted and constantly coversing with myself in my head, could that have anything to do with this increased activity?
This is evindence that all those poeple that do those "fp" posts aren't as active in their brains as those who read the stories!
Finally!
who | grep -i blond | date cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep
What about perverts?
Introverted as I am I won't be able to express this but I do have FAR more brain activity than others. I don't think it has to do with my introverted but it's more of a symptom.
For example; today I had an awful day. I'll think about it until tomorrow morning. My extroverted friends will shrug it off as "bad day, tomorrow is another". If in fact I do "think" more, I'll spend less time socializing as it'll cut into my thinking time.
Yesterday at a church event I attempted to be even more extroverted than normal. I was insulted in the course of the evening, a minor misunderstanding of my position, and of course it distracted me the rest of the evening as I thought about how to restate and rectify my position.
So yes, we think more but why would the thinking want to associate with the brain-dead? We don't. We fall back into our shells and think about why the world is as it is.
More information here: http://www.theintrovertadvantage.com/
Here's a quick bit from the site:
Are You One?
We all use both our introverted and extroverted skills, but we are hard wired to be more one than the other. Look at the lists below and determine which one feels more like YOU!
Not every aspect will fit exactly for you because we are all unique. If you don't feel like you fit one side more than the other, even by 51% to 49%, then ask yourself this question: If there is an emergency do you tend to stand still and feel somewhat shutdown or in slow motion? If you have a standstill reaction to stress more often, then you are probably an introvert. In a crisis do you tend to move your body immediately and feel like taking action, maybe without pausing to think? Then you are probably an extrovert if you react with movement. Under stress we can experience our innate temperament. Look over the two lists and think about how you ARE, not as you'd like to be. If your still uncertain, as a last ditch effort, ask someone you trust and who is honest to read these and suggest which one sounds more like you.
Introverts:
Extroverts:
I recommend this book if you think you are or know somebody that you think is indeed an introvert, as this book says alot about what an introvert is and what the article briefly describes.
Another case of the assumption that the USA = The World.
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
For introverts, there was also lot of activity in the area of the brain that relates to the visual processing and the desire of red staplers... but that's probably just a coincidence. ;)
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
At least, according to this.
The US has only had one bachelor as a President? And if you've been here on /. very long...
Introverted people tend to seriously overanalize situations and have difficulty relaxing in social enviornments. The result is conversation that feels forced, somthing that most people don't find attractive.
Ever wondered why meeting people is easier when tipsy? It makes your brain shut up.
N-th post!
So basically this is a colony of introverts, and we get a story about how great introverts are. What does that do for us in terms of teaching us? It feels like nerds needed to give each other a pat on the back.
I feel the karma burning, but hey, I got a 4 today, so I can afford a -1.
Jimmy Carter? You're kidding, right? This guy has done nothing but shoot his mouth off about every damn thing, whether any one wants to hear it or not.
....an introvert? No way man.
Don't get me wrong, Habit is a great great thing, but
Plus, I don't buy the brainpower thing either. I mean, the guy presided over an economy with a prime rate of 18% and gas lines like you won't believe. Brainpower....yeah, right.
politicization of discussion topic boosts CPM for host
There is frequently an assumption that the physical (brain chemistry, electrical activity) causes the behavior (introspection), as opposed to the other way around, or some other, independent cause.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
I guess it makes sense. The more time you spend talking the less time you spend thinking.
I still have to wonder about the research methodology though... You stick an introvert who likes being by himself in one machine and an extrovert who hates being by himself in another. Is it really any wonder that the person who likes being by himself has more brain activity in this situation? I think it would be better if they could somehow measure an introvert reading a book and compare that to an extrovert mingling at a party.
What are you eating? isItVeg?.
take that preppies!
Fascism is the greatest political ideology ever conceived. Sorry.
I believe it was the late great philosopher Douglas Adams who stated, "If people stop talking, their brains start working."
This space unintentionally left blank.
Excerpt pokes at the perception that there is something wrong with introverts, but furthers the perception that somehow more brain activity as better. A lot of brain activity has to do with inhibiting other nervous system activity. The brain isn't a processor where cycles per second have some significance. If anything, the morphology of the brain circuitry would have a much bigger impact than any measure of global activity.
Attaching a label to yourself is a great way to start a self fulfilling prophecy, unless you are simply self analyzing. The old "I'm an introvert so I don't get friends" philosophy is widespread and teribly limiting. You CAN be both, and I try to stretch both sides of me.
I try to beleive I'm a little more diverse than one word, the same way I don't describe myself as a Jew, or white, or red head, or whatever. If you are in a situation where you have to describe yourself as one word, you may be around the wrong people.
Heh. I remember Carter. His "introvertedness" if that's what it was, was beside the point. The man exuded a mopey hopelessness every time he spoke. His energy policy consisted of wearing cardigans on TV when he gave his "fireside chats", and telling us he was turning down the thermostat at the White House. His cap on gas prices resulted in gas shortages.
His foreign policy of "USA bends over and spreads them" is directly responsible for the mess that exists in Iran today, and in fact one of the hostage takers of the time is "El Presidente" of Iran today.
Carter may be capable of building houses, and beating off savage attack rabbits with a canoe paddle.
He was waaay out of his depth as a president.
Everyone should have to endure watching the man's speeches to America. Those who missed it won't understand what a dismal time that was.
I wonder if the increased brain activity causes a person to be introverted (they are more immersed in their thoughts and less concerned with the outside world) or if a person being introverted causes them to have more brain activity (they think to fill the "void" where social interaction would fit in in an extrovert)
Ok, so you are saying that recent American Presidents have not had much frontal lobe activity...
You know, we'd guessed....
Find Japanese addresses in English on Google Maps Japan: http://diddlefinger.com/
Supposedly George Smathers attacked Claude Pepper by calling him "a known extravert," with a sister who was a "thespian" and a brother who was a "practicing homo sapiens," saying that Pepper "matriculated" in college and "practiced celibacy" before marriage. Pepper lost.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Abraham Lincoln, sixteenth president
Sir Alfred Hitchcock, film director
Michael Jordan, basketball player and celebrity
Thomas Edison, inventor
Grace Kelly, actress
Gryneth Paltrow, actress
David Duvall, golfer
Laura Bush, first lady [emphasis mine]
Bill Gates, software pioneer
Candice Bergen, actress
Clint Eastwood, actor/director
Charles Shulz, Peanuts cartoonist
Steve Martin, comedian/actor/writer
Harrison Ford, actor
Michele Pfeiffer, actress
Katherine Graham, late owner of Washington Post, author
A snippet from "The Introvert Advantage". Keep in mind that most of these people are self-proclaimed introverts. If you are interested in finding out if you are one, just google for an introvert-extrovert quiz, although if you really want to be sure, take the extra long quiz(es). And if you really want to go into the subject, read up on Carl Jung, who's right up there with Sigmund Freud and Alfred Addler in terms of psychological R&D.
And I'd hate to reply to my post, but I'm afraid by the time I post this it might be pretty far down the page.
Extroverts have more sex!!
Really? Says who? I certainly don't think that.
... specifically in the frontal lobe ...
I thought it was from my mother dropping me on my head as a baby.
As an INTP, I'd like to be the first to say...
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
Computer geeks across the world rejoice!
Dissociatives seem to alter the flow of signals through the limbic areas, possibly increasing the degree of internal feedback within these areas (or between these areas and the neocortex) and diminshing the amount of sensory data that comes in. Gating of signals coupled to the theta rhythm through the posterior cingulate (311) may be altered.
The diminished sensory data (from top-down inhibition), and the decreased encoding of intermediate-term memory, combined with the enhancement of activity in the posterior cingulate and retrosplenial cortex, all lead to an increasingly closed feedback loop. Within this loop, random noise, individual differences in temporal lobe "wiring", the contents of intermediate memory, and the influence of electromagnetic fields (332) all combine to give rise to profoundly abnormal neural patterns.
There's a common belittling of the sheer amount of complexity we need to deal with to interact in a social environment. There's movement towards acknowleging this with things like "EQ" as well as "IQ" being measured, but it's couched in a lot of New Agey jargon too much of the time. Being able to do complex maths and write good computer programs involves a lot of brain activity, but so does being able to effectively model a person's personality in your mind and interact more effectively with them using that model. I usually score as more introverted than extroverted on MBPT tests and the like, but I still enjoy the process of experiencing social and group dynamics at times, and playing with it in a similar way to the way I'd work on a logic problem.
The Reagan white house was a colony of vampires. It was a pretty dismal time to be a peasant in Guatamala, El Salvador, or Nicaragua. "Moral equivalent of the Founding Fathers" my ass. Unless he meant the slave-rapers.
I have learned that being an extrovert will land you the great opportunities. I realized that no matter how much you know or how good you are, if you can't express your skills during critical moments, you are going to lose a job to an extrovert who can express his skills and demonstrate his communication skills.
There are so many people competing for tech jobs, getting into a good company is very difficult. I used to be an introvert and I learned that in order for someone to compete in this world, they need to start to adapt and become an extrovert.
The main reason people decide on the introvert approach is because people don't actually care. If people actually cared then introverts would have a reason to be more outgoing. Think of it that way.
One key difference among introverts, introverts know you don't really care and stay in their own world. An Extroverts world and entire reality only exists if people in that reality allow for it.
View it like this, if you are an introvert because you don't want an overly dramatic, painful, insane life, and want actual control over your life, thats just the logical way to have control.
If you are an extrovert, you care what other people think of you, you care about others more than others care about you, and I'm not saying its wrong to care about others, but extroverts simply get attached to everyone, or no one, while introverts are very selective with whom they attach to and connect with.
It's just different strategies, if a person can put up with the pain of being an extrovert, then theres nothing wrong with it, but for others being an extrovert is impossible or difficult unless its in a very artificial way. The artificial way of being an extrovert is to pretend to care, pretend to listen to people, pretend to trust people, and pretend to be social. Example, being social at work or at school because you are supposed to, not because you actually like to or need to, this is how an introvert views.
An extrovert HAS to be social or they go insane with bordem. An extrovert HAS to feel loved or they get depressed. An extrovert MUST feel accepted, MUST feel normal, and so on and so forth.
introverts want to simply stay in their own world and enjoy their time here, and are much more time conscious in that they know its a complete waste of time to play social mind games with people.
Introverts like to process the world internally and work on self-improvement and typically observe more and talk less. Read more...
"Every time you see a story about a serial killer on TV, what do they do? They bring on the neighbor. And the neighbor says 'Well, he was always very quiet,' and someone in the room says, 'It's the quiet ones you gotta watch.' This sounds to me like a very dangerous assumption. I will bet you anything that while you're watching a quiet one a noisy one will fucking kill you! Suppose you're in a bar and one guy's sitting over on the side reading a book not bothering anybody and another guy's standing up at the front with a machete banging it on the bar saying 'I'LL KILL THE NEXT MOTHERFUCKER THAT COMES IN HERE!!!' " --George Carlin
You guys are out of your mind if you think a man that takes off years of his life to travel to every god forsaken section of first his state and then his country in order to meet people and beg for money can somehow be called an "introvert".
This is my sig.
Nothing exemplifies the supposed power of the extrovert more than The Apprentice. All those disgusting Type-A personalities backstabbing each other and ripping the crap out of each other for the tiniest mistakes to make themselves look good, and not only are we supposed to be amused by it, but we're also supposed to believe that that's really how you get real work done. It undoes what few remnants of "cooperation" are left from our positive Sesame Street educations and convinces us that being rude and loud at other people's expense is the only way to succeed.
Read up anything by Eysenck for more information on this. He theorized this around 1970, I believe, and there's been a stream of data since then to support his conclusion.
..I told you I'm smart, it's not my fault no one understands me, they just don't stick around to listen.
Now gimme some good karma +5 funny.
I remember when I used to be a retrovert.
Ok, I just don't get it. Why do people get research grants to come up with obvious answers to dumb questions. Of course introverts have more brain activity - they are the ones who sit in class - quietly figuring out the problems on the board while the extroverted dumb jocks are discussing the consistency of boogers with the prom queen. You don't need to get paid to figure this out - just ask any teacher. Next someone will get a research grant to determine if wheels are round. Go figure.
He has a front man to do the public relations part of the job, of course. But Rove is the one who makes the decisions.
Fast talkers? George v's Tony
serenity now!
You see, many of us just don't care who submitted the story, let alone clink on the submitter's personal link. What we DO care about is the story itself. Get over it; get over yourself. Just read the story or move on.
An introvert says it, but only after thinking it over, if it is the best thing to say, the timing, thinking about what others say a bunch to try to come up with good things to say, etc. An introvert can "over analyze" things like that.
Other things happen too. When I'm going to meet someone, I'll often think up entire conversations on the way. It isn't purposeful, but I think something along the lines of "I could say X", then that leads to "then they would say Y", and it continues and before you know it I've had a little conversation in my head.
I think about all sorts of stuff. I can be walking down the street and I'll start thinking about something completely irrelevant. I'm not talking about "I remember that one birthday", I'm talking about "how you could build X" which leads to how to solve problem Y, how X would be useful in situation Z, etc.
That is sort of the whole introvert/extrovert thing. Introverts do all this stuff inside. Extroverts might do these things as conversations with other people, or they might fill that "need" in some other way with normal conversation and such.
That's how I see it. I used to be more of an introvert, and I've never been an extrovert so I can't say I've had that point of view (outside of the odd situation).
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I think it is more about being curious. When someone is curious they become introverted because they don't have a need to speak out. Extroverts try to enjoy themselves, while introverts try to fill this curiosity. Filling the curiosity may bring enjoyment, though.
I have only this to say:
"I think this line is mostly filler"
That reminds me of me exactly. I guess I am not the only one. :)
Some people are built to be extroverts, figure out that it doesnt work, and decide to be introvert. Being an extrovert is nice if you like drama. If you like dramatic emotional situations, extrovert is for you.
If you want to be emotionally stable, introvert is for you. However, the way around it is to simply change your way of thinking, an extrovert can become an introvert and an introvert can become an extrovert. An introvert can become an extrovert simply by faking it.
The difference is the extrovert most likely believes in the illusion that they have a lot of friends while the introvert knows its an illusion and sees beyond it. Yes most people are fake, yes most of us will never know each other on a real life, but the introverts focus in on what they want or need from the specific individual while the extrovert just wants someone to listen to them.
As an introverted-extrovert, while it would be nice in the perfect world, to be social and be real with people, if no ones real its kinda pointless if not painful to try to be real around your fake friends.
Introverted or not, its better to have a few real friends than a dozen fake friends, and the only way to learn the truth of these words is to actually experience the results of surrounding yourself with fake people.
Extroverts simply like attention, like to talk, like to be heard, and would rather believe everyone cares than admit that they dont.
Think of it this way, why would anyone care who you hooked up with? and how exactly is this information good to put out there? I wont say introverts are smarter, but introverts are at least more cautious when it comes to the information they put out and the trust they put into individuals. It should be obvious.
Why would an introvert go to a church event? The whole point is that introverts don't like "events" very much. Were you forced, or are you just pretending to be introverted?
Introverted children need time alone more than do extroverted children, says Laney, whose book, The Hidden Gifts of the Introverted Child, is due in January. "Extroverts gain energy by being out and about," but "being with people takes energy from introverts, and they need to get away to restore that energy."
This is true, it's very draining to be around people for prolonged periods. I am introverted (I don't *like* that I am but what can you do?) and people think that I am deliberately being rude when I try to avoid circumstances where there will be lots of people. They simply don't understand just how exhausting such situations are.
I spend a lot of time in my own company and I enjoy it. I can think clearly and focus better on things when by myself. I'm not intentionally being rude - I'm just being me.
I tend to be a bit of an introvert, especially around new people. One of the main reasons for this is that I start getting this internal filter for everything I say. Like, if I think about telling a joke, my brain kicks in and goes, "How will this be percieved by these people? Will they think it's funny? Will they be offended? Blah blah blah". Before I know it, the conversation has moved on to a different topic, and my comment would no longer make sense.
I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes I feel like I'm an introvert specificly because I can't silence this little internal monologue in my head. I overthink everything, to the point that I end up not speaking at all.
That's why I'm glad I have slashdot, so that I can pretend I'm interacting with people. Hooray!!!!
Being introverted does not necessarily mean that you're a quiet, reflective kind of person in social situations. Being introverted really means that you don't like too much people, for too long a time at once. You need a good deal of "alone-time" to be comfortable.
That can mean that you're also quiet or a wallflower at parties, but does not at all have to be. It may just as well be that you're happily partying and jabbering away - just mostly with people you already know, preferably smaller groups, and not that often.
In fact, I prefer to see introversion as the positive difference of the clingy extrovert who can't stand being alone, who values themselves only through the eyes of others, and who has to fill their time with sounds and voices at any cost, whether if it means constantly blaring TV, spending hours on the phone saying nothing at all, or always having a boy/girlfriend just to have _someone_, since anyone, no matter what kind of creep, is better than being alone.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
i dont talk much at all, unless i happen to be very thoroughly educated and certain of my position on a topic, because if im not i end up rambling on endlessly as i begin to go over all the possible positions that could be taken up. my wife finds it quite a chore to talk with me. i have to keep reminding her that i need time to think about what i want to say, and how, and that once i have what i need arranged properly in my mind, i can talk to her without rambling on and on about things. it doesnt help that i almost certainly have ADHD (thats by looking at the brief descriptors in the DSM IV of ADHD and realizing that i meet a number of the requirements to be considered as such, not only do i ramble on, but i ramble into a string of varying subjects and ultimately forget what i was talking about in the first place)
when i wrote book reports and essays in high school, i never needed a second draft. the first one was, short of perhaps minor spelling or grammatical errors, exactly what i intended to hand it when the project was due, despite my teachers insistence upon my writing a first draft before a final draft was turned in. i ended up having to intentionally make errors in the first draft to correct for the second, because id spend so much time thinking about the topic that when i put pen to paper initially...i was done. on other subjects, i just ramble in my head until i forget what i was going on about, which i find quite relaxing from time to time, as it seems nobody is terribly interested in enduring me when i speak it all aloud.
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
If only you'd ask... I'm afraid to start the conversation...
BTW. I'm speaking as a Canadian in case you thought I was an American.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
bah I say! /. ers are neither extra nor intro verted, they are PER verted
I'd say that extroverts trust more than introverts.
Introverts quickly learn they will never be accepted, and cannot trust the common individual.
Also, its not like someone who is an introvert cannot fake being an extrovert. Thats the difference. Any introvert can decide to pretend to be social. All you have to do is learn the body language and words which initiate certain patterns, conversations, etc.
Ultimately, if you want to be an extrovert yet be an introvert, talk to people when you have a reason to.
Does more brain activity = good or bad, or neither?
He clearly said The World, which as everybody knows is that popular MMORPG. But it's easy to see how one could confuse the USA with it, seeing how President Stonecold resigned and everything!
So, basically, they figured out the same thing I was taught five years ago in college. It's explained by "Optimal Stimulation Theory." People have an optimal level of stimulation that they try to maintain. Introverts naturally have a higher level of internal stimulation, therefore they seek to reduce the amount of outside stimulation they receive in order to maintain their optimal stimulation level. Extroverts (and "sensation seekers") have a lower level of internal stimulation and therefore seek to increase the amount of external stimulation they receive in order to maintain their optimal stimulation level. So...what's new about this study?
This means, extroverts can't keep a secret, can't do something without telling the world about it, and like to gossip.
Gossiping is not something an introvert would ever do because whats the point? There is no logic behind gossip. So think of it this way, introverts are good planners, strategic thinkers, and this is good for certain fields and tasks. Extroverts are good salesmen, good with words, perhaps better with expression.
The problem is, expression without reason is art. Extroverts would make a good artist, but would you really want an extrovert to be handling strategy or any of the planning? All your plans would be gossip and sooner or later all your ideas and plans will be stolen.
So yes, its a catch 22, extroverts are great at marketing, but bad at planning. If you are running a business, it takes more than just marketing, because you cannot even get a patent or use your idea if your extrovert partner tells everyone the idea before you can patent it or actually build a business around it.
The planners therefore have to be introverts. The salesmen have to be extroverts, there can be exceptions for fields such as law in which you'd want to be capable of both.
First: those who can please mod parent +5 insightful.
I don't know how to praise the parent enough for that post. I'm tired of all these stories (there's been a few) on Slashdot that seem like they're written to be pep-talks entrenching stereotypical notions about geeks and nerds.
Wake up people, we're all unique! The stereotypes aren't worth anything but the jokes they attract (which are usually funny).
Sincerely from an AC that's both introverted and extroverted and a whole bunch of other things.
While I'm sure that many introverts are turning over deep coding problems, coming up with the idea that will change the world, and making keen observations, others are neurotic, anxious, or wasting cycles on trivialities. Not all brain activity is condusive to health, happiness, and success.
The evaluation of an action as 'practical' . . . depends on what it is that one wishes to practice.
That's it, I've seen better shit on a National Enquirer cover. What next, a post that says Nerds have bigger penises?
Beatles-Beatles attempt at politicizing this seems off: Bush I and Bush II also appear to be introverts.
I think you're over-generalizing a little. Actually, a lot. Isn't it possible for a person to enjoy being social without being attached to everyone? Sure, an extroverted person needs to have someone to be extroverted to -- but that's a far cry from needing to be loved and accpeted by everyone, and from getting attached to everyone.
Introversion and extroversion are about what your focus is, not what you need. Some people have all the fun and energy in the world when they're with other people. Some people have a great time just thinking and doing things alone. That doesn't mean that an introverted person doesn't want or need love, or that extroverted people are some sort of incomplete half-humans when they're alone.
I'm guessing that you consider yourself an introvert (or you're a very bitter extreme extrovert) from your comments. That's fine but you seem to have some huge resentment towards more social people. Enjoying socializing is not the same as dependance on others or "play[ing] social mind games". Some people just like to hang out. Others like to amuse themselves.
He sure doesn't give me that impression. He seems happiest when he's out dealing with people, and tends to speak before he thinks (well, whether you think the latter actually happens would depend on your political views I suppose).
The parent is a typical, indecisive INTP. As an INTJ I'd say what I think, but you don't care so I won't waste my time.
So yes, we think more but why would the thinking want to associate with the brain-dead? We don't. We fall back into our shells and think about why the world is as it is.
Or, from the other angle, why would people who can communicate their thoughts want to associate with those who can only run circles in their heads?
... but an overwhelming majority of introverts also claim to be afflicted with Asperger's, datelessness, hairy palms, and large anime figurine collections.
Imagine, people who talk all the time aren't as smart as those who shut up and listen!!!
He's the one staring at YOUR shoes.
Thank you, I'm here all week. Try the lobster.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Well, I'm glad to know that I'm not alone. I just wish I knew how to fully harness my method of thinking. I would think that I could get a lot more done if I knew how to use what I've got.
we all long for community. yes, even this introvert. I can't meet people, especially the women type from my house.
degree depends on situation
Yup. There's other research that shows that the distinction totally breaks down if you track people through different contexts. Or at least claims to show that. Sorry I don't have the reference at hand. But there are contexts where I'm extremely one way or the other. I both have a handful of very-long-term friends and at time enjoy chatting up total strangers. People who are just one way or the other -- wonder if they can learn to switch modes (or contexts) to advantage, there being unique values to gain from each.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Q: How can you tell an extroverted computer geek from an introverted computer geek?
A: The introverted computer geek will look at his shoes while he talks to you. The extroverted computer geek will look at your shoes while he talks to you.
Q: How do you tell if an Extroverted computer geek is Russian?
A: His shoes look at you while he is talking.
After 2+ years, it still doesn't get old.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
"more brain activity in general"... "extroverts seem to rule the world"... but the people who "rule the world" are extroverted _and_ sharp.
If I recall my studies correctly, acuity in the frontal lobe is where conciousness and intelligence are rooted. It is said that many intelligence tests really just measure the number of things a person can consider at once.
Inroverts tend to be introspective. That's a given and even redundant. Perhaps we should consider the mental health issues involved, such as manic-depressive, overt depression, OCD, or whatever the flavor of the day. A lot of the people afflicted with these disorders exhibit the very same "symptoms" of either genius or psychotic behavior.
Sorry, but this is an issue very close to someone in my family.
Thank god for AC posting. Oh. Wait.
I'm not saying that I fall into either category. I certainly do not. I just wonder how mental "afflictions," be they either good or bad as perceived by the collective reflect upon the development and current state of our society.
Who's in charge and how many medications are they taking to keep whatever balance their doctors seem to think is real?
SiO2
I'm actually not trying to be mean here, but I am illustrating what it's like for the rest of us (sounds exclusive, eh?) to talk to a person who isn't so good at putting their thoughts in order and communicating them. I think we all kind of know what it's like -- everyone has moments when they try to articulate what they were thinking but get bogged down because there's just so much of it -- but for those of us who can summarize well it's exhausting trying to extract the point from all your thoughts. I think from your other post that you understand that, but I wanted to explain my post.
No offense to a fellow introvert, but if you really want to get more done, stop patting yourself on the back long enough to work. For being an introvert, that's a whole lot of text all about you, and how great you are. This simply does not work when you are working with a group of people on a group project. Even if you know how to solve a problem, you're probably still going to need help implementing the solution, and for that you're going to have to take a deep breath and explain. Don't be surprised if the rest of the group has their own solutions, or questions your judgement. Your way is one way of many, and your thinking that you're already "past that point and beyond" is what annoys people.
As a Slashdot tagline once said:
In theory, everything works in practice. In practice, it never does.
I think you're about right. I'm extremely extroverted, but I don't mind being alone, either. I find people extremely interesting and entertaining...at least when there's something interesting and entertaining about them. I like being able to talk to pretty much anybody. It's really not hard...just ask them questions about themselves. What do you do? Where are you from? Do you have a family? What do you like to do for fun? The best questions to ask are "why" questions, because they're open ended and make people think, and also motivation questions, for the same reasons. "Wow, what made you want to be a chicken sexer?" usually makes for a very interesting story.
The problem occurs, however, when you meet truly boring people. The guy who works as an insurance claims adjuster and has no hobbies or interests. Thankfully that's pretty rare. Most of the time people have at least one thing about them that's truly interesting and unique, and if you get them started on that topic you can be entertained for quite awhile. As a bonus, they'll think you're the most interesting person in the world, too, since the most interesting people are those are interested in them. You better actually be interested in people, though, or you'll just find yourself getting annoyed.
Oh, but playing social mind games is fun, too.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
From the slashdot article:
I consider myself introverted but I was always excellent applying technology and creating solutions that worked and usually exceeded expectations.
That "exceptional" technology skill got me invited to lots of decision-making and planning meetings and consortiums. But people often expressed afterwards (and sometimes even during) these sessions disappointment in my seemingly lack of participation or unwillingness to "speak up". I always apologized and explained I really couldn't find it in my constitution to say something unless I had something to say.
I usually found myself deep in thought about discussions ongoing but rarely found conclusions simple, even in seemingly simple scenarios. Overall I sometimes wonder how many dings I accumulated for that trait. (I will say, I did quite well for myself reputation-wise overall.)
Curiouser and curiouser.
yeah, but this is a story about the vast differences between introverts and extroverts. Since that's only once facet of most peoples personality, there aren't really any broadly accurate differences. Still, the general differences can be interesting.
Don't you think you are creating a false dichotomy though? For example, I am by no means an introvert, but I sometimes have trouble with doing/saying things impulsively. So where do I fit in? Honestly, I think this whole thing seems a bit fabricated, personality cannot be distilled into two catagories very easily(if at all)
Monstar L
Being an INTP (just found that out recently and it helps explain a lot), I've been a big introvert misfit all my life. In contrast to what TFA says about shyness, I'm pushing forty and have only overcome mine in the past few years through conscious effort. I'm functional, but I'm not going to be running for office any time soon. The Smiths How Soon Is Now? pretty much sums up how I was until some time after I turned thirty. I found liquor helped when going out, but by the time I started loosening up, I could barely talk... They have better treatments for it now, I hear. What I have found that helps is when I have to give presentations in my MBA classes. I've got four coming up over the next two weeks...where'd I put that bottle... Just kidding! Anyways, I hope shyness is not an intrinsic characteristic of all introverts. I'd hate to think that all the other misfits out there like me have had to put up with something so stupid their whole lives too.
as an introvert (to which i would testify in court), i take exception with the categorization of introverts as being loathe to make snap decisions and speak quickly. i hate going to parties or work events, and am most gleeful curling up with my laptop. but i speak extremely quickly and eat and make decisions very quickly. introversion is not the same thing as being shy. it is about whether or not you enjoy the company of other people. i don't. i get energy from spending quiet time by myself, not from other people. that's what distinguishes an introvert -- not social awkwardness.
go get it
erm, I meant extrovert, not introvert. See what I mean?
Monstar L
As the saying goes, "Still waters run deep."
You have OCD, faggot.
a site where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the characters of their content.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
I have lived in the USA and in other countries. The only place that I have seen in the world that being introverted or "thoughtful" is thought of as being weird or spooky is the USA. In other places in the world people who think about what they have to say, rather than spouting some clichés and dogma, which seems so common in the USA, are the ones who are respected. That certainly holds true of all the Canadians I've met.
Having said that, there are a lot of very intelligent and thoughtful people in the USA, and yes most of them aren't extroverts :P
So my point is not about how leaders and extroverts in the world are, just that thinking that introversion is a bad thing is probably likely to be a fairly US specific thing.
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
So Shut-ins are smarter than their "social" counterparts?
Score 5 for me!
-jX
Don't you just love politics? It's like a comedy of errors.
Was that irony? After that description, you don't sound like an extrovert.
You're describing pretend-theory's post - and avoiding exposing yourself using a simple social manipulation. And it's common tool for introverts.
Or you're just trolling very subtly?
I think introverts have more brain activity because they think about things more.
I've heard that Introverts have a generally higher level of arousal (not necessarily the sexual kind), probably caused by hormones, and this is why their brains are busier and they have less interest in interacting with others. People with ADHD, OTOH, have a very low level of natural arousal and so need to do outrageous things or take stimulants to feel normal.
One way Introverts and Extroverts can be differentiated is by how they "recharge", whether that be through an internal world or the external world, respectively. Another method can be related to how they think and/or perceive. I like to visualize it as follows:
Extrovert = Breadth-first Search
Introvert = Depth-first Search
Like many (well, MOST) things in psychology, this is a guide and nothing more. Psychology (like most disciplines) suffers from "Physics Envy"; that is they lack the ability to make concrete statements like Physics has ("Earth's gravity is 9.8 m/s^2").
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I only became an introvert so people wouldn't find out how dumb I am.
It comes at a price. I can't help but wonder how many introverts also suffer from obsessive-compulsive disorder or any other anxiety disorder. Sitting and thinking about every possibility to every situation amplifies the effects of OCD and makes it much, much worse. Ignorance is truely bliss.
No, that wasn't irony. Don't get me wrong, I like to talk about myself, too. I would describe a extrovert as someone interested in things outside himself...other people and environments. I like to go places and I like to meet people. I look forward to parties and enjoy going out. "Extrovert" does not mean "blathers on about himself to people who don't care." That's the definition of a boor. Extroverts can be thoughtful and considerate, too.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
It's very subjective of you to label all U.S. Presidents since Carter as extroverted. What qualifies you to draw this broad generalization? Do you have substantial basis?
James E. Carter and introvert? The guy who, for most of my lifetime, has been gallivanting around the planet advising and negotiating with anyone drawing breath, publicly criticizing all of his successors, participating in all manner of charitable causes, special interests and important events, and doing interviews for anyone capable of granting airtime? That "Jimmy" Carter? This guy visited TMI while the core was still molten.
Give me a ****ing break. The man has probably forgotten more friends than any ten of you will ever have.
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
well one thing both of you are a little off about is introverts and extroverts "enjoy" acting out as one (or not acting out?). The basis of the test is really to prove whether you feel "recharged" after spending time by yourself or by interacting with others. Although people generally enjoy doing what they feel recharges them, you really can't interchange the two. Personally I'm about as introverted as it gets according to myers-briggs, however I really do enjoy interacting with people who I find interesting and when I feel that they find me interesting however, interacting with people really drains me and after a while of interacting with people I'll naturally just start to appear uninterested even though I'm just self-reflecting so that I'll be able to continue.
As for whoever said, extroverts need others to care about them, that can't be farther from the truth, they really just seem to have a more verbal way of self-reflecting. By talking with others, most extroverts I've known seem to realize more about themselves from either hearing other peoples experiences or just saying something about themselves aloud.
As for the parent poster stating that talking isn't hard, introverts know that, usually we genuinely just don't care and sometimes don't want to know the answer to these questions.
Give a man a match and he'll be warm for a minute, set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Who the hell modded this up? The GP has a valid point and this is just some Anonymous Coward crap. Get with it mods.
Turn based strategy game that runs over XMPP. Phalanx
"ntroverted children enjoy the internal world of thoughts, feelings and fantasies..."
;-)
And what fantasies I've had too!
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
I agree with your last statement though. Every once in a while I get the feeling that I could be some genius or invert some mega-successful-help-the-world type thing if I could just get the right idea to start, instead of the random little things I think of.
I don't know if any of history's great geniuses or important people did this same thing. I've never read about it, but I don't really read biographies. Of course, they may never have written something like that down or discussed it. If I become famous or invent that thing, what are the chances someone would find these "moments of brilliance" (as they may call them :) that I post to Slashdot. Another thing only a time machine will solve.
Of course I know I won't be a Newton, for example. By my age he had basically invented optics, single-handedly created Calculus, made the then most powerful telescope known to man (that out performed telescopes 12x it's size by leaps and bounds), and more. Einstein had some of his major work in place by 25.
But maybe I could be another Philo T. Farnsworth. History will see.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
As an extravert, I'm pretty aware that the people I've worked with who are very good programmers are all introverts--ability to focus on hard problems, enjoying working by themselves, etc.
I've concluded that while society values salesmen and take-charge-folks, the the lone author/scientist/programmer/inventor, etc. tends to make the lasting works society in the long run values.
The thing of it is, a lot of what you're describing could be caused by something greater, such as an anxiety disorder. I'm the same way, and I am in therapy for OCD. It's not really a matter of introvert versus extrovert, it's a defect in logic, bad brain chemistry. You get stuck on the one negative comment and you worry about it and it ruins your evening, whereas someone else could hear the same comment and just keep going...their mind lets it go. It's all about perception, really. You can't change what was said, you can only change your reaction to it.
I mean this in the most helpful way, but it's possible you're just obsessive and perhaps depressed. Being an introvert doesn't neccesarily mean you obsess over a bad day for the next day or two.
I don't know about that. A lot of the introverts I know truly have difficulty talking with others. They might want to...they just can't figure out anything to say and feel generally uncomfortable in social settings. Personally, I go to parties all the time where I only know two or three people, and I really enjoy it.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Why do they do it? Could it be:
.bomb wealthy pinkos? The sort who kinda like Howard Dean but wish he would have the guts to REALLY speak truth to power.
1. Slashdot is ran by a bunch of college dropout
2. Are savvy businessmen who understand the nature of their readers. They know that a political thread gets almost as frenzied as a PC vs Mac flamefest, and every reader and poster is generating pageviews, which helps Cmdr Taco save up for his next Powerbook.
3. Both of the above.
Democrat delenda est
Q:How many introverts does it take to change a light bulb?
A:
Q:How many?
A:
Q:Alright, Jeez, I'll just do it myself.
[ ]Clever sig [X]Lame sig
The attitude that there's something wrong with introverted people is widely shared in society, where fast talk and snap decisions are often valued over listening, deliberation and careful planning.
What does fast talk and span decisions have to do with introverts? I talk relatively fast and I certainly make snap decisions and I am introvert.
The article doesn't seem to ever define just what it means by "introvert". According to Wikipedea:
The terms refer to "attitudes" and show how a person orients and receives their energy
This has squat to do with speed of decision making (although I can understand the fast talking thing to some extent).
meh
I work the same exact way, thinking over conversations in my head and what I could say and what they could reply. I do it *all* the time, and that's what makes socializing so difficult. You think of all the negative things that can be said, or you're waiting for the right setup to go into your next bit of conversation. In my self-treatment of OCD, I just have to let go...I have to care less, say something, and let it go through. And it works. Conversations should just flow. You shouldn't have to work for it, you shouldn't force anything. It comes naturally. You just have to be willing to let go and be ready for the unexpected, or you'll end up in a deeper mental mess than you were originally in.
well aren't you the "macdaddy". No one gives a shit about you and your wonderful thought process. Go back to sitting in your cube and being a good little worker.
Your comments are a bit black and white. I say this because I'm someone that leads a bit of a double life. When I do go out, I will randomly go up to people and ask them about their life. At work I'll ask almost every person how they are doing, strike up a random conversation with someone just to see how they are doing. I don't care how people feel towards me, I do it regardless. I don't have a need for people to care and love me, and I certainly don't mind if people don't like me. That's life.
At the same time, I enjoy being alone during the evenings. I usually sit in my room doing something quiet, perhaps play a game, or do some reading. While I have many people I talk and converse with, I have a select few friends whom I am quite close with. These are the people that I am quite close with, and would bend over backwards for. At the same time, if I am going out with a group of close friends, I will not hesitate to ask someone that I'm not close to come along with me. I don't get offended if people choose not to come, but I offer the friendly gesture anyways.
I used to be strictly an introvert. Why did I change? Because I found that the people I was closest with and got along the best with were also introverts, and being an introvert myself, that didn't leave me much of a chance to meet other introverts. So I changed, I decided I'd go out and be outgoing. What did I find out? That balancing my social and quiet time is far more satisifying in life then being an introvert, and I ended up meeting some great friends along the way.
(BTW, I won't look up the paper, but they actually did a study on college students to find out what makes them happy/sad-- and they found that the happiest students were the ones that had an active social life. As negative as you make it seem, being social and outgoing does have its pluses)
The main reason people decide on the introvert approach is because people don't actually care. If people actually cared then introverts would have a reason to be more outgoing. Think of it that way.
You assuming that people "choose" a particular approach.
meh
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So are most /.ers intraverts in their REAL life?
-Palal
What if I'm an introvert because I just don't like other people? Maybe I find them irritating.
Perhaps I view the slavish way normal people pursue the goodwill of others as a weakness, a pathetic addiction to the approval of others. Perhaps I am just as disgusted by this addiction as I am by alcohol, heroin, or crystam meth addiction, and view it in a similar light?
Perhaps I just think most other people are stupid, boring, and unimaginative, and don't want to waste too much time on them.
Or, maybe, and humor me here, the only other people I find even remotely interesting are people who are geeks like me, and into the same things (technology, modern visual culture, etc)... Maybe I just don't have any use for anyone else.
Remember -- some of us introverts are freakin' HOSTILE.
Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
Intellectual masterbation is all the sex some geeks get.
Stroking an introvert just may have a similar effect in terms of that 'comfort feeling' that you get after sex. Dopamine regulation keeps us focused on the task at hand. It's a great feeling to be on the same page without having to beat it mindlessly into someone else.
Disclaimer: Introverted.
So he's complaining about how extroverts make bad presidents, and then his example of an introverted president is Jimmy Carter? This does not bode well for the argument that introverts would do better.
Well, extroverts do think a lot:
.... "
"Where's the beer? Where's the beer?
"Go for the touchdown! Pass the ball! Sack him! Sack him!"
They just don't know what "loopback" means.
I'm an extrovert who learned to be an introvert after I learned that I don't enjoy being social and was only doing it to be accepted, feel normal, or seem like I had more friends than I actually had. Most people grow out of that in highschool but some people want to be accepted and feel normal all their lives. This is why theres people with eating disorders.
Well, what else are introverts going to do with their time if they (OK, we, being an introvert myself) don't spend it talking?
OK, there's pr0n. But besides that?
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
Or maybe lawful neutral.
You socialize in groups but you are an introvert?
Thats something I'd shy away from, I like to hang out with one friend at a time, and keep my friendships seperate. The one thing I'd never do is bring a complete strange into the mix.
I also hold conversation in my head before speaking to someone. The problem is if I know the person well I can predict the conversaion so well I forget to actualy talk to them! This means I can never remember if I've actualy told the person what I was going to.....
The US public has not elected a single president for a long time. Most of them were decided by drawing straws in the supreme court's conference chambers.
Funny thing is I really only have that problem with my mom's side of the family, where everybody's loud and extroverted and pretty much superficial. On my Dad's side, we like nothing better than to all get into a room and debate the hell out of something, be it politics, philosophy, or religion. People on that side of the family are much more interesting to me, because talking with them gives me more "deep" stuff to think about.
Bottom line is that it's really no use trying to make an extrovert of an introvert. Several years ago I actually started to give a crap what the rest of the world thought, but that about it as far as extroverted behavior goes for me. I just can't make small talk for more than twenty seconds or so, and parties with more than five or ten people -- especially if I don't already know a few people there -- get downright claustrophobic. No matter how much I'm told to "be social," I'm not going to be much better at it.
Don't Mind Me, I'm Just Nuts
I bet you that introverts are going to use this research to say they are more intelligent. No this is not a flame against introvert in particular. I am one myself. It's just that I'm sure I'll hear people say stuff they understood from this research when it isn't the case. Introverts might or might not be more intelligent. Having more brain activity might mean that something is wrong and not working efficiently. Maybe it means that something is working more. Who knows if it affects intelligence.
Jimmy Carter isn't a model US president...sorry. :P
Apple's customers are like no others--a rich blend of the most sociologically elite with those seeking elegant, simple computing... Unlike users of Intel/Windows computers, a significant portion of Apple's users are active , exploratory , avant-garde and early adopters . The activities they enjoy are unique in the way that they more often incorporate rich media such as video and music as well as more active prosumer behavior than many more passive Windows [and Linux] users.
With above-average household income and education levels, the Mac population [is] very attractive [ intellectually as well as physically
Well, then, s/introvert/psychopath.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
I am a 'social introvert' too. I haven't always been.
To me my outgoing work personality and my ability to strike up conversations with random people is learned because being an extrovert is the 'norm' and it will benefit me professionally. It feels very fake and I know it isn't genuine but I've observed people for a long time and I truely feel like I successfully exhibit a non introverted persona intentionally.
Goofus is an extrovert. He enjoys making an ass of himself in the name of "good fun" even if it's self-destructive and unproductive.
Gallant is an introvert. Much of his time is spent up in his head dreaming up new plans for things to do around the house for his family, improving his work skills and trying to stay several steps ahead of life in general.
Goofus, as an extrovert, gets great pleasure from gloating about how "great" he is at sports, work, relationships, driving or whatever. But the reality is that Goofus is seen as an obnoxious self-serving lout by his co-workers, family, girlfriends (nearly all ex) and other drivers on the road.
Gallant, as an introvert, is mindful that he shares the world with other people. He is quiet about his achievments and derives pleasure from simply accomplishing goals so long as they are beneficial to everyone concerned. He sees more value in cooperation than competition and is percieved by all as a kind, thoughtful and genrous individual.
Goofus would far rather socialize by the water cooler even though his break is only fifteen minutes because in his own words, "Gawd!! Work is so borrrrring. Wouldn't it be great if we could find a way to make money and never lift a finger? Haw haw haw"!!!
Gallant takes his fifteen minutes to grab a quick snack in the cafeteria and take it back to his cubicle. "Excellent! If I put in another solid four hours I can finish this Perl script and get some time to work on compiling the latest Linux kernel at home tonight after reading a bit of that Dashiel Hammett mystery. Reading is the greatest hobby"!
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
/. likely attracts more introverts than extroverts, if stereotypes are accurate. Yes, extroverts may want attention and care what other people think... and so do YOU. We all do. Just admit it fer pete's sake. It's part of being human. Quantity isn't quality. Having more brain activity isn't that handy if it's spent endlessly going through possible scenarios that generally trigger behavior that can be called socially unsuccessful. Increased brain activity can also come from an introvert's tendency to be mindful of thoughts, thereby amplifying them. An extrovert's focus will be on others, which places mental activity in a secondary role, one where it has specific purposes instead of being glorified for its own sake.
... we're always wondering what sex would be like?
Advantage of being an introvert is that you're looking for answers all the time.
You spend your mental capacity on looking for truth and a good/truthful model to explain reality around you.
What if you formed a model of reality that could explain almost everything. Then you'd have two advantages over other people.
1. You'd have an easy way to see how the world is because it's basically the same as your model. Easy to see truth because it's already known to you what truth is like and it's easier to predict actions that give the results you want.
2. You've spent all this processing power and time forming up the right model in your brain, training your brain. Now that you're done with the pattern forming process, you've got processing power to spare, you're a better thinker.
So you'll come to better conclusions faster. That's a great goal to strive for! Don't give up, but I know you won't, because it's not in your nature. There is a level of knowledge where you can feel your brain snap and you go: "I GET IT!"
And then you'll lose it again after a while in heaven. Keep working and you'll get it back after shorter and shorter times.
Oh you want help?
* http://www.enlightenedcaveman.com/intro.html
(He's not completely right about everything)
* http://www.doubleyourdating.com/google/
or search for "David DeAngelo" or "Double your Dating" on the eMule P2P network
(Everything David DeAngelo says is true)
This is to help you start building the "What are humans like" part of your model with evolutionary psychology. Good luck.
Extroverts have more sex
-- botsex is {grep;touch;strip;unzip;head;mount}
Hello to all you extroverted salespeople out there!-))
I was wondering what affect alcohol has on other introverts. I'm a classic introvert. The last time I took the Myers-Briggs test I was as far I as the test score would allow. In reading some of these other commments, I'm glad I'm not the only introvert that over analyzes *every* situation. Tone, inflection, exact words that people used. As stated above, one misstep can throw off my entire day because I'm worried about what other people think of me and if what I said sounded approprate or not.
In the above examples, I can see myself in every description of an introvert. However, before I go out I *always* predrink. Why? Because it turns me into an extrovert. I tried to go to a bar once with friends sober. I couldn't do it. I almost had a panic attack because there were so many people I didn't know and I felt extremely uncomfortable.
Now, I'm not talking about getting absolutely plastered and not remembering an evening. But after a bit of alcohol. I turn into a social butterfly (as my friends call it). I will talk to anyone about any subject in the bars. My ADHD truely comes out as I feel bad if I talk to one person for more than 5 minutes, because there are SO many people to talk to. My personality pulls a 180 and I will exhibit every one of the above extroverted traits.
I've known people, however, that alcohol has had the opposite effect on. The introverts become more introverted.
I was just wondering, Slashdot. How does a bit of alcohol affect your personality?
I am sorry to spoil your rosy vision of your behavior...
The real reason you think and analyse your actions is because you are insecure and inconfident. Know why your "extrovert" friends shrug it off as a bad day?? Bacause they dont care about what others think of their position. They are secure as they are...
I have noticed that "introverted" people who become secure and confident get into that golden middle ground - not extrverted like a salesman, not introverted either, but their normal self-assured self.
Your opinion is, in fact, very popular among some of our worst citizens. Here's the thing:
Reagan/Bush's campaign team paid the Iranians to keep the American hostages through the 1980 election against Carter. Then Reagan/Bush's Iran/Contra team sold Iran weapons while also sending Iraq chemical weapons during their war against each other, which Bush followed with a war against Iraq. Then Bush's son started a war against Iraq that's turning it over to Iran.
Weigh all that against Carter failing to stop a Soviet invasion of their neighboring Afghanistan, which undid Russian confidence in their government's invincibility. Throw in Reagan/Bush's creation of the Afghan jihad, including bin Laden, which eventually destroyed the World Trade Center and part of the Pentagon. Which Bush's son used to justify invading Iraq, which we're now turning over to Iran (see paragraph 1).
I'll take Carter, thank you, even if he couldn't do much to rescue an economy destroyed by Nixon/Ford's disastrous war in Vietnam, defeat by OPEC (see paragraphs 1 & 2), and general implosion of American confidence after Watergate. To say nothing of the SEC chaired by Bush/Reagan's campaign manager, Bill Casey (see paragraph one).
Certainly better than the current Bush residue: Worst. President. Ever.
--
make install -not war
Could you believe it? Just a few days after closing down their website (slashGOTH.org) our website (slashDOT.org) gets this news. It would have been interesting to see their reaction.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
He has a guest book. Spam it with links to Slashdot. Troll it with goatse links. Better yet, use your imagination and do something original. Teach them never to get into a spamming/trolling contest with the Slashdot crowd. We are the experts, let's show them what we're made of.
Here's that link again in case you missed it.
Unfortunately, you are not confined in your behavior and mannerisms like an introvert, thus, you cannot actually understand how an introverted perspective is viewed.
What the parent poster stated is accurate to an extreme degree.
Of the MANY conversations you have, EVERY DAY of EVERY WEEK, can you recall every conversation and connection you make in every one of those moments??
If you answered yes, you're lying. The human mind has not the capacity for such informational retrieval for such vast amounts of detail ALL the time.
If you answered no, at least your an honest extrovert. That being said, what have you gained for all those conversations other than pleased moments that passed the time?? Oh, some would call it networking. I call it social bullshit, but hey, thats how you like to kill your time. So hey, more power to you.
Mind Wide Open summarized this pretty well. Active scans of people working on a problem or engaged in a specific endeavor have shown repeatedly that extra brain activity is not a good thing. It means you're floundering. The more activity the worse you're doing. Your best results are when just that tiny minimum necessary bit of the brain lights up.
Thinking of several pronounced introverts I know I'd have to say this applies; sure they're thinking a lot, but what they're doing is obsessing on little problems and turning them into full-blown crises which they can mull over and over again for maximum horrorific effect.
Of course there are real introverted geniuses. I guess they just channel it better.
Of course ! Extraverts are outsourcing thoughts.
The attitude that there's something wrong with introverted people is widely shared in society, where fast talk and snap decisions are often valued over listening, deliberation and careful planning.
I'm reminded of when I was in high school. I'm definitely introverted, and when I'd get into one of those exchange 'yo mama' insults (yo mama is so fat / so skinny / so ugly / etc) to each other contests with rival classmates. I'd always come to a complete halt when I'd get a really good one thrown at me... but like, three weeks later, I'm still dwelling on it and I'd finally come up with a devastating and awesome comeback that, by itself, would have totally owned back tenfold... but being three weeks later, it was obsolete for the relevant "yo mama" insult contest that it was related to. So I would, at best, hope for an opportunity to use it in the future, which was why I usually initiated those to begin with. And still, they would end the same way, and begin the same way. Graduating highschool was my only way out.
I sort of wish I'd used my brainpower on studying math or something instead of coming up with "yo mama" insults, maybe then I wouldn't have had such a rough time in Calculus and Statistics as I did during my time majoring in computer science in university.
Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
I have no problem boosting an author's Pagerank if his or her articles are good. This article is not. It falls into the category of "scientist discovers what psychologists have known for decades."
I am an extrovert. No, wait! Hear me out!
It seems to me to be a misperception among some of the introverts hereabouts that extroverts don't really care. We're superficial people. We can talk for hours without saying a darn thing. There are certainly people like that out there, but they are a distinct minority of extroverts.
Take for example when I see someone and ask "How was your weekend?" Sure, it's a common everyday thing to ask someone how their weekend was. Introverts may see this question as a pointless, mildly annoying bit of social nicety. But if a friend tells me they had a good weekend that genuinely makes my day a little brighter. If they didn't then I want to hear about it to see if there's anything I can do to make them feel better. Extroverts, in general, talk because we care, even if it seems superficial.
With regard to spewing hot air, it seems to me that some introverts miss the fact that there is almost always deeper communication going on. I had lunch with a friend today, and I'll freely admit that we discussed nothing of substance in that hour. However, I hadn't seen her for a few weeks, so what we discussed was completely irrelevant anyway. The point of lunch was to just spend some time together and reconnect. What I was saying was "blah blah blah" and the message I was sending was "I like you and I enjoy your company." Everyone likes to hear that!
--
I typed this sig manually. Go me!
You can be an extroverted misanthropist, but it is more commonly associated with introversion.
Sick of WoW? Try the thinking man's MMORPG: EVE Online
For example; today I had an awful day. I'll think about it until tomorrow morning. My extroverted friends will shrug it off as "bad day, tomorrow is another".
My brother is an extrovert yet he is known as a real worrier.
That, my friend, is obsession, not introversion.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
I didn't need a Slashdot article to tell me that I think more than other people :D. But every single introvert I know fits this too...its common sense, really...if smart people get grouped with idiots, the idiots will either (a)slow down the smart people or (b) make the smart ones do all the work. Therefore, the smarter people tend to become an introvert, secluding themselves from anyone, and preferring to work alone, as they can get more done that way.
PS. I haven't read any of the posts up there, so if I'm repeating info, sorry.
-- Cameron Eagans http://cweagans.net
I don't want to talk about it.
Radio on your iPod
I think you point out an important distinction. Thinking more isn't necessarily a good thing. The ability to come to a conclusion on a thought and then shove it out of sight and out of mind is not a bad thing. In your example, you worried on some small slight or perceived insult. Others might have simply discarded that insult and thought nothing more of it other then making a mental note that the other guy is a jerk.
I see this every single day. My girlfriend and I are roughly equal intelligence on most things. That said, I am pretty sure she spends more time firing neurons then I do. I can easily close my eyes and turn my head off and not worry. She on the other hand lives in a constant state of obsessing over past events, worrying about small slights she might have made to someone or that someone made to her, and all manner of things that I wouldn't even think to concern myself with.
I'm an introvert (I think). Why? Because I'm more interesting to myself than a lot of people around me. I know more than they do, and it's frustrating to me when someone doesn't know things that I know. I also have very low tolerance for mediocrity and I very rarely lie to make others feel good. There you go, my reasons to be introverted.
It may very well be true that introverts have more brain activity, but the issue is that humans are obviously a very social species, and *many* psychological problems may be traced back to a lack of socialization. We require socialization to remain psychologically healthy.
I don't know what it's like to be an extrovert, but I've been around a couple in my life. Conversation can really separate the one from the other--at least, that's what I've noticed.
Seems to me like extroverts _plan_ their conversations. They might be listening to you, sure, but on some deeper level they're busy thinking of what's coming next--or perhaps looking around to see who else is around they can draw into the conversation.
I'm an introvert. I don't like a lot of "change" in my conversations--new people cause repetition, get me off on tangents, or cause the subject to change prematurely. Extroverts plan as they go for this kind of stuff--"Hey, there's Bob. Bob knows Optics. I'll get him over here and see what he has to say." My reaction to Bob's presence--unless for some reason Bob is already part of the conversation--is, "Oh, it's Bob."
Unless I've planned well ahead of time, I'm so busy trying to come up with what to say _as I'm talking_ that I don't have much ability to map out my thoughts. Even when the other party is talking, I'm too busy pondering what _they_ are saying to think about what _I_ am going to say. I converse by inspiration: if the other party doesn't give me any good inroads to a new topic, I have a hard time holding up my end--unless I don't feel the need to pay attention because, for instance, I've heard a story before. Then I'm free to sit and think about what's been said.
If I had to guess at the main mental difference between extroverts and introverts, it would really be that the former can think off the cuff and get along, whereas we introverts are compelled to reflect and concentrate, whether or not we can get along by winging it.
Extroverts bubble; introverts stew.
Did not know slashdot can be a dating site.. Are you gay dude..He hee
our new introverted overlords!
My favorite part is when we hear crowing from the righties about how we're only having a terrorism problem because Clinton cut and run in Somalia, not wanting a lengthy and bloody engagement. (I don't recall any Republicans shouting "stay the course!" at the time, but I might be wrong.) This, according to the narrative, showed the world that America was a paper tiger, which would back down if you bloodied its nose a bit, and led to 9/11, 7/7, and whatever else happens.
However, nothing is said about Reagan's Iran-Contra deal. If you recall, this is where we traded arms for hostages. That is, Reagan appeased the terrorists. Which is just about the worst kind of message you can send. It's like writing a blank check to the bad guys. Look, if your citizens are held hostage by these people, plan a daring rescue mission if you can, but if that doesn't work out, mourn them, 'cause they're already dead.
Reagan? Goddamn appeaser.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
But, if you'd asked me I'd have said "Shut up. I'm thinking!"
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Hi Yall,
:-)
or read one of the Jungian books on personality typology. To yourself be true & it would not hurt towards others either, most times....
Take care of yourselves.
Greek Geek
Because introvert and extrovert are polar opposites; however people generally don't reside on one end or the other but in the middle. So I'm going to coin a new term, "middlevert", that describes this phenomenon, and say that 66% of people would be better described as that than introvert or extrovert.
A man walks into a bar. The bartender says, "What is this, some kind of joke?"
Lots of these symptoms are also being linked with ADHD; so; what I wonder is; is ADHD created by the extrovert people making the introvert people to think more? I think ADHD is a society-created disorder; made by chaos, unreliability and speed without thinking. Lots of people do really annoy and hurt me just because of their actions without thinking; sortof "shoot before asking questions" instead of "ask questions before shooting"...
Mostly when those people do shoot before asking people any questions; I got to clean up the mess; which makes me hyperactive by thinking continuesly why that "friend" or employee did that action without thinking twice?...
Being fast and abrupt is not always a good choice; why are people being classified in corners as either introvert as extrovert and not been seen as both? Since; most people WILL think if it'll affect their own personal life by any fast decisions; most should be part of both worlds; but only when it suits them?
No offense intended; but; it's something I've been thinking about for years; and; I guess extrovert people just care less about the people around them because they already have enough "friends" around them... But is a friend neccesary a real "close friend" ?
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Take it from a psychology student - this article is hyped up pop psychology. Yes, it's a well known fact - not breaking news - that introverts have more brain activity than extroverts. This is why introverts are less stimulation-hungry than extroverts - their baseline brain activity is higher, so it takes less stimulation to satisfy them, and therefore introverts stay away from meeting new people, don't go to concerts, and so on, since they don't 'need' to be involved in these activities and many find these things to be overstimulating - too loud at the concert, too tense when meeting strangers. Extroverts on the other hand have, as TFA would say in its neanderthal-like summary of the facts, "less brain activity" meaning they have a lower baseline. Extroverts require more stimulation to bring their brain activity up to enjoyable levels and therefore seek more stimulation than introverts, which is why they enjoy meeting new, novel people and go to concerts and the rest.
Dumbing the issue down into a "introverts smart, extroverts dumb" scenario is just ridiculously stupid. Furthermore, it's silly to label people as 'introverts' or 'extroverts' in general because everyone is a mix of the two. For example, I am a very extroverted person, but with some introverted tendencies (depression, Civ4 addiction) and I have a WAIS-III tested IQ of 130. For those of you who aren't familiar with the IQ bell curve distribution, that's two standard deviations above the (Western population) norm of 100, putting me in the top 5% of the population. If you are an introvert it's likely that you have some very extroverted tendencies - especially when you are in the right environment (online, at a geek con, at work).
Nerds like us on slashdot are smart because we are smart, not because we are introverted. Don't take these articles as a guide to how you should judge people out there in the world - there are highly intelligent extroverts AND introverts, and also highly stupid extroverts and introverts, but making generalisations about people because they are quiet or loud would definitely put you in the latter category.
I tend to choose for a mix of empirical/a priori science first and following the findings with a priori science to think things out.. but ok.. What I mean is.. those empiricists didn't thought of the fact that if extroverts start with meditation and introspection they start to get NOT-Extroverted and get more brain activity! You can start life on the extroverted or introverted side but you can condition yourself into something more refined. I for example are just in the middle, tests show 70% or higher introverted, perhaps because I've learned from internet texts about introvertedness and introspection..
me too.
xb0x
OMG, I'm expressing myself right now, I must extrovert, which means I'm dumber than people who don't post DERRRRRRRR....
Years ago I did get such an assessment. It was actually paid for by a company I had applied to. I didn't get the job but the agency wanted to discuss the report with me. Why? Because it said that I was in the top 2% of white collar workers for management aptitude but was more suited to a small company. That was 10 years ago and it was the best advice I ever got. I moved to a small company, was on the board after just a few months, did almost everything, then moved into consulting, still in a small company environment. I didn't get rich (though I am today a lot better off than if I had stayed in large corporates) but I have had a very interesting ten years doing stuff I enjoyed. I would recommend anyone unsure of their job path to get a professional assessment.
Pining for the fjords
If you think critical thinking cannot be made in rapid succession then I suggest you work on your memory skills and your rate of recall. Both types of traditionally classified personalities are ripe with morons. They just express it through their actions differently.
Next.
Bill Gates is extrovert (ENTj) and Linux Torvalds is introvert (INTp - aka "Geek") - note that this two types are very similiar. Steve Jobs is ENTp so he is very diffrent. More info at http://www.socionics.com/
I entirely second this. I too build some kind of a chart for most of the situations I have to face that don't fit in my daily routine. This is rather brain-consuming (and tiresome) and not too useful, but I can't help it. It also leads to bursts of anguish (oh my, what if...), but I guess it's a side effects of being slighly smarter than most people (or so I like to think).
...welcome our new introvert overlords
And yet you still can't spell populace right. I'd get a refund.
No, he spelled populous correctly; he used it incorrectly.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Q: Why doesn't your method work in Korea?
A: In Korea, only old extrovert geeks will look at your shoes.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Does that mean my pussy has a mind of it's own?
Thanks, Carl
Hopefully you(and the gp post) realize that this study is talking about *averages*. What I mean to say is that even as a mighty mighty introverted thinker, your frontal lobe activity could be lower than that of the average extrovert. I don't mean to imply that it is, just that it very well could be.
Also, I'm glad you think when you walk down the street, but what do you think extroverts are doing, concentrating on holding in their drool?
In the end, introversion and extroversion are pretty much descriptions of behaviors. They might have some predictive capacity in relation to intelligence, but no matter what you want to think, there are plenty of crazy bright extroverts and plenty of stone dumb introverts.
There are so many damn people on this planet that trying to cut all of them into two groups with some arbitrary test and then pretending that every member of each group is more alike every member their group than they are alike any member of the other groups is bone headed. Shades of gray and all that.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
and they found that the happiest students were the ones that had an active social life
When studying matters of perception, you can't just come right out and ask people to rate themselves on a vague term. Do you "love" you father, your dog, and your wife? Trying to evaluate that question with any single definition of "love" would make you either really sick, or really cold. So, you ask related questions, hopefully of a more objective nature, about related behaviors and actions, which you can measure.
Behaviors and actions, however, do not adequately express the "happiness" of an introvert. Very few people, even introverts, would describe sitting alone in a room for hours at a time as overly indicative of feeling happy. But give me a good book, and in exactly that externally-visible state, I feel just about as "happy" as I get.
"Why does every other post on Slashdot (or Fark, or any other site) have to include something about Americans being stupid or inferior or misguided, or the even more reflex-driven attacks on George W. Bush?"
Because they usually *are* stupid, inferior or misguided (pick two out of three every time).
And Bush...well, he deserves to be bashed as often as possible. Even by Americans.
"introverted individuals tend to have more brain activity in general"
This is hard to believe judging by the quality of an average slashdot post.
Nothing sucks like a Vax, nothing blows like a PowerMac G4
If introverts have more brain activity, that would certainly make them not normal. I think it might be "wrong", too. Remember the Pythons: "He's that most dangerous of creatures, a clever sheep."
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
I've often thought that this was the reason why we have so many "sciences" now: Military Science, Library Science, Political Science, Waste Management Science. There is a tendency in the West to label everything as a "science" in order to make people think more highly of your chosen path in life. I think it derives from a false understanding of science as "absolute truth" instead of a process for observing and recording apparent consistencies in the natural universe. Which is also the heart of the Evolution vs. Creationism debate, but that's a post for a different story. :-)
First of all, the idea that introverts get their energy from being alone (and are therefore overloaded around others) and that extraverts get their energy from being around others (because they are understimulated when alone) is OLD OLD OLD OLD news. I think I read about this in "Please Understand Me", the original book by the original Myers-Briggs people. Indeed, Carl Jung may have recognized this even earlier than that.
Secondly, people seem to want to be overly binary about this. I know people who get most of their energy from being alone. Those are introverts. I know people who get most of their energy from being with other people. Those are extraverts. I know people who seem to require a balance. What are THEY called?
I find people extremely interesting and entertaining...at least when there's something interesting and entertaining about them. I like being able to talk to pretty much anybody. It's really not hard...just ask them questions about themselves. What do you do? Where are you from? Do you have a family? What do you like to do for fun?
I think that this paragraph perfectly highlights the differences between introverts and extroverts. I have little interest in hearing people's answers to those questions unless I intend on making a serious investment in them and inviting them into my circle of friends in a meaningful, long term way. Small talk typically bores me and when people try to engage me in it, I find myself feeling annoyed because they're interrupting my internal dialogue, which I feel is more productive and more enjoyable than an external conversation would be.
LOL... what's funny is that the majority of my close friends are persistent extroverts that just couldn't take a hint and kept engaging me in small talk until it was unavoidable that we grew to know each other well. Finally, it would get to the point where I'd invested so much time talking to them and learning about one another that it would be silly not to be friends.
There is a distinct difference between introversion and social anxiety. Introversion is 100% natural and part of your personality, and doesn't mean you're socially inept or clumsy---just more thoughtful and deliberate. a listener, not a talker. Social anxiety (aka shyness), in many cases, can be crippling and difficult to deal with, and in my experience is tied closely to depression. Though i would guess it's more common in introverts than extroverts.
using anti-bacterial hand soap is like drying your feet in the middle of a shower.
They have only elected 4 presidents since then. So let me get this straight, since the last 4 presidents are extroverted, then extroverts rule the world. I want to live where they do causation like that!!
all the '5, Insightful' comments the Introverts out there are thinking of right now...
(This sig intentionally left blank.)
This sort of thing happens a lot. Most introverts already feel like they don't fit in, and they also tend to want things to go smoothly and efficiently without misunderstanding. The thing people tend to forget, and even are implying a bit on some of these posts is that it isn't really a choice, more of a compulsion. I don't tend to think about planning out my conversations before I have them, it just starts happening.
When conversations that I've worked out beforehand (I even do this when ordering a pizza on the phone) go differently than planned I may find myself unable to stop reflecting on the conversation for several hours afterwards and may even panic over something that could have presented misunderstanding (depending on what it is of course).
But the planning is all about preparing for any possible reaction to what I'm saying, along with making sure what I say will communicate what I want as precisely as possible. It's a form of practice.
I know one extrovert who apparently talks so much because that's how she figures out what she's thinking.
uh.... If I recall, schizophrenics also show increased brain activities in the frontal lobe area.
Increased activity != Increased intelligence.
- dj
Now, that's interesting. But I don't think I'm entirely misanthropic; in my case it's just in respect to the general population. There are certain subcultures I'm rather fond of. And once I know someone, and have decided I like them, I'm perfectly friendly, although being an introvert I don't exactly seek out interaction.
Perhaps I'm introverted and somewhat misanthropic, and they're related (even correlated) without having a causal relationship. I like that.
Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
it's because you're an idiot!
GP assumed that you were aware of the conventional info on the physical side effects of marijuana. It makes people perform worse - not better, asshole. How can you perform well when you can't fucking breathe properly after smoking!? How can you have great reaction time when bud slows you down???
You need everything spelled out for you, dummy?
Retard.
This dumbass was put into power by the Trilateral commission for one thing. But the guy has gone totally senile. he endorses communist dictators, poo poo's his own country's election process and now the bonehead actually believes that he didn't send in special forces to rescue the hostages in Iran. May the ghosts of those soldiers place a pox on his house!!!
Your statement only goes to show how little you understand about ADHD.
Would type out an informative piece from the perspective of an introvert suffering from ADHD, but this is Slashdot, and therefore a waste of time.
Silly slashdotter... Psychopath does NOT mean "one who dislikes other people in general". It means "one who has no moral constraints or conscience with respect to his dealings with others, who usually behaves in a completely irredeemable, evil way" -- in other words, one who is, for lack of a better word, evil.
I don't believe I said anything about being EVIL. I just said I find all you silly fucks irritating, and this leads to my actively avoiding your presence.
Now, if I was a psychopath (which, thank God, I'm not) I'd find you irritating and poison your twinkies. See the difference?
Crazyphilman: introverted and hostile, but NOT PSYCHO.
Psychopath: introverted and hostile, and poisons your twinkies.
Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
Yeah, but that's his point exactly. Making small talk can be hell for an introvert because small talk feels so phony. You don't actually care about all that little crap that extroverts use as an excuse to make a connection and trying to force yourself through the routine makes you feel uncomfortable and fake.
The worst conversations ever are between two introverts that forget the other person isn't expecting them to be extroverted (which is easy, since introverts are forever acting to put extroverts at ease). Two introverts making small talk because they think they have to is just scary.
Since when is an extrovert necessarily a " fast talk and snap decisions are often valued over listening, deliberation and careful planning." Being an extrovert just means you are out going. Introvert just means you are not outgoing. An introvert could be a fast talker who makes snap decisions and throws wit.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Well if he's doing it to raise his Google rank, it ain't working. His rank is still 5, the default value.
Most of america has been missing Nixon all along (not the sheeple of course).
Does that sound strange to you? You might want to look at the actual policies of his administration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon and tell me if that isn't the epitomy of centrist america. Too many people fail to see anything else than Watergate, guess that says something about them (not a surprise).
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm a bit disappointed. I thought for sure that this post was a troll for comments about our current president's brain activity, or lack thereof. I'm always up for a good trouncing of President Bush and his administration. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere.
When Ronald Reagan became president I realized that many people in this country just don't trust intellectuals. They're more concerned, it would seem, about a president doing something evil rather than something stupid. One problem is that we have laws against doing something evil but there aren't any laws against doing something stupid. Stupid, like the new Medicare prescription drug program, you just have to live with.
"Meaningless!, Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless!"
Must have been the "crazy" in "crazyphilman" that threw me off. It's a joke, son, laugh a little.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
C. Anything linked to Jimmy Carter is unlikely to be considered positive.
"Jimmy Carter?! He's history's greatest monster!"
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
Unfortunately, for me at least, there's also just something about verbal interaction that feels intimidating. I like to think it's the "real-time" aspect of it, but I really can't say. I like to gather my thoughts and think about what I want to say, but that's just not possible with verbal interaction without some extremely awkward periods of silence.
Still, "small talk" is one of the most boring things I can think of, because, generally, I don't care about those sorts of things. I'm not going to ask someone if they have kids, because chances are, if I have to interact with this person for a significant length of time, that information will come out on its own eventually anyway. If I'm not going to be interacting with this person for any length of time, then it truly does feel like a waste of time and energy on my part.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
makes a computer seem very introverted. What's more, if you hook up a scope or measure the magnetic fields around the CPU it looks like it's very busy indeed. It'll certainly run the batteries down faster on a laptop. But it's not exactly very interesting is it?
I'm not sure that introversion/extroversion is a choice. What ever it's causes - nature/nurture - the upshot is that there are measurably different physiological, emotional and psychological levels of activation between the two.
Thinking theres a choice in this seems as counter intuitive to me as thinking I have a choice as to weather I want to be a sprinter. Sure I can exercise, eat well, get coaching and end up being reletivley fast but my body type just wont go as fast as someone with a sprinters body. No one would employ as a sprinter. On the curve of sprinterlyness I just don't cut the mustard.
I'm an introvert. That doesn't mean I can't turn it on, be gregarious and act out. But being introverted doesn't need to be turned on in me, it's something I am.
Ah well, At least I can choose to do something about being a couch potatoe......no wait./
It's telling that half of your examples date back to the second world war. Here are a few more recent examples of the brilliance of American foreign policy.
Guatemala. Iran. Dominican Republic. Chile. Nicaragua. Panama. Afghanistan. Angola. Pretty much anywhere the disgusting, disgusting Kirkpatrick Doctrine took effect.
I find myself trying to look up an instance where the CIA did something right for a change.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
This is like saying that extroverts have more physical activity. While it's generally true, it doesn't mean anything beyond what you could know by reading the definitions.
The introvert's inner world is usually more interesting than the outside world. Maybe not always as much fun or gratifying, but more demanding of attention. So the only way to do that is in your head.
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
Do you really want a psyche profile for presidential selection? Should we give em a physical and genetic screening? Use the Probulator 6000 to check for cancers and test limits?
Here's a plan:
Let's just let the brave souls with the financial and popular backing make a go of it in contest of ideas and ideologies to lead our country with constraint that true change shall be governed by a diverse representation of the people.
Or something like that. Bottom line is that the mindset of a president does not dictate the greatness of the president or the outcome of his terms. It is mostly luck, perception and historians sifting through the garbage.
Unlike fascists, I actually love the extroverts when they love me. I'm not declaring war on the extroverts who actually care about people.
If a salesman wants to sell me something which helps me, I'll consider the salesman to be a good salesman, but if the salesman tries to sell me something which hurts me, then my previous comments are correct.
The flip side:
Once the introvert has figured out what he is going to say, he will go ahead and say it, without regard for what other people will think. This doesn't help in, say, politics, where you have to mince words and won't say something if it will offend the "wrong people".
I'm an introvert by that definition too. After my university studies began i have attented many parties and i'm slowly beginning to be more extrovert, because i really want to make new friends. I just don't always know what to speak to them or, more importantly, how to express myself in an interesting way :-(
Who is John Galt?
Not all talking in social situations is "small talk." I don't think anybody likes small talk. Extroverts have a genuine interest in other people. The small talk is the way you find out what's interesting about this person. It's hard to just ask somebody "what's so interesting about you?" I like to get stories out of people. The other day I was talking to some completely non-descript dude, forcing small talk about where he was from, or what his family was like blah blah...and then somehow he mentioned he hiked the entire Appalachian trail. After that we talked for over an hour about that. I found it fascinating. That wasn't small talk...I was genuinely interested in what the guy had to say, and what his experiences were. Small talk just gets thing started.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
If people who essentially talk less are more intelligent, what about people who sing?
The brainplace: http://amenclinics.com/bp/articles.php?articleID=Be nice to your brain.
--
Harsh generalizations are never true.
It takes allot of thought to rape pillage and plunder and be successfull.judging success is a flip of the coin in a closed world.
I'm a bit introvert (but no hermit like some of the other posters here ;-) and I do see why small talk can be useful sometimes. I noticed that extroverts indeed follow a strategy of asking questions and tried to do so myself. Asking the first few quiesionts is not a problem but keeping the conversation flowing is hard for me. Something like this would be typical:
...."
Me: " Wow, what made you want to be a chicken sexer?"
Intresting person: "I dunno, just needed the money"
Me: "Ah, I see.
Of course this just an example, my mileage varies. How would you handle this MetaMonkey?
I wonder what environment the test subjects were in when they measured their brain activity.
I think it is more likely that they were measured in a lab with not much social activity, than at a party.
i.e. In an environment where introverts work better.
Perhaps if they were measured in a social environment, the extroverts would do better.
bits and peace
Nicholas Daley
If they really didn't want to talk about it, you move on to something else. But if you were really interested, there's a lot of questions you could ask..."How does one become a chicken sexer?" "Is it something you want to keep doing, or are you holding out for something better?" "What's going on in the chicken sexing industry? Are you worried about your job being outsourced to chicken sexers in Bombay?" etc etc. If they're simply not passionate about it, you just change the subject. The point of small talk is to find something you have in common with someone else, or something they're passionate about discussing, and then the conversation just takes care of itself. For instance, I'm really passionate about my job, and if somebody asked me about that I'd talk their ear off, but my family is completely boring, so I wouldn't have much to say about any of that.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
I'm not sure if you're replying to someone else's post or if you read something into what I wrote that I'm not seeing. I'm not a back-patting kind of guy and I never consider myself the smartest person in the room. In fact I feel more than a little inferior when I attend our monthly all-eggheads meetings at work. As for this being a whole lot of text about me, well, yes it is which I don't find at all surprising considering I discovered something new about myself in a forum of similar people. That doesn't strike me as odd.
"Wow, what made you want to be a chicken sexer?"
That sounds frighteningly like my Penis Mightier.
Introversion and propensity to reflect have a strong relationship, but whether we don't care what people around us are doing because we have more interesting things to think about or whether we think about other things because we don't care isn't really clear.
We're all misunderstood, but there are probably two extremes of introverts: those so socially disconnected that they fill their social needs within themselves, and those who are so self-absorbed with thoughts and analysis that they become socially disconnected.
I think the key issue is that our social observation tends to be less "natural." We think about whether or not things are normal, have to remember how to be interact right, how to say things, and analyze our interactions more. This is why is "draining" for introverts to be social - its hard work to interact more.
It has nothing to do with whether or not we want to collaborate, or want to be social. I know I'm a thinker: I can present, or banter, or collaborate, or politick, but its just so much harder than simply solving all the world's problems.
A wise old owl
Sat in an old oak,
And the more he heard,
The less he spoke.
The less he spoke,
The more he heard,
Why can't we all be more like that wise old bird?
remember to loot and pillage before you burn!
As someone that fits most definitions of introvert pretty well, I would say you have hit pretty close to the mark. The reason I don't care to involve myself in most social situations is simple. Most people that occupy these events are self serving idiots that have no interest in my thoughts short of however they can use me in some self serving manner. It is much easier and simpler for me not involve myself in it in the first place.
However it is not that I do not care at all for the plight of others, I do care very much about the misfortunes of others and the world in general. I just don't care to expose myself face to face to what is usually superficial whining, someones lightly reasoned pitch of their world view, or worst of all meaningless babble just to 'make conversation'.
I do enjoy well reasoned, even to include non-sophist contentious discussions on any of a wide variety of topics. However it seems that 98+ percent of people are either incapable of or at least disinterested in such discussion. I do not care to engage in empty yap about trivial stuff that I have zero interest in. I especially do not care to engage in political or spiritual discussions with the typical brain dead FOX news fan. In short most social encounters either bore me to tears or tick me off.
Matthew
>Reagan? Goddamn appeaser. Um, yeah, but Clinton's policy appeased to terrorists with an equally bad effect. If you look at what bin Laden actually cites as examples of American weakness, it's the pull-outs from Mogadishu (Clinton) and from Lebanon (Reagan)... not Iran-Contra.
A quote from Seymour Cray:
"My want in life is to be left alone - to do technical work. We each have our thresholds of how much human interaction we want with our contemporaries. My requirement would be quite minimal. I would say a few hours a week would suffice for me."
Oh my god, an extrovert with social anxiety!
And his blind brother has a phobia of the dark!
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
i have a cousin who is 'introverted'. as 'introverted' as is possible. the outside world has no meaning to him. i am sure there is incredible power in there somewhere, but there is no outlet. you see, my cousin is autistic. there is a point when there is too much introversion. i barely function in society. but i function. he does not. the abilities of the inroverted are only as useful as their ability to use them. which is a function of extroversion.
-verlorenModus-
I was kidding you, too, hence the twinkie poisoning. Admit it - the concept of poisoned twinkies is at least amusing. Ah, well.
Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
Try this test to see which one you are:
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm
(based on the Jung - Myers-Briggs typological approach to personality)
Ok, so know we have found a validation to jung's idea that introverts(which he percieved himself to be) are somehow more evolved. This what the article is stating. The more brain energy as a result of internal operations is better. Forget the idea of difference being good. Forget the idea that introverts work on an internal world, and extroverts an external (locust of control). If you are not an introvert then you my friend are out of luck. Meh, The whole point of extroversion vs. introversion was the very idea that while different both where usefull.