Slashdot Mirror
MacWorld Keynote Announces x86 iMac & Laptop
Steve Jobs began giving his keynote at 9am local time, PST. The action was posted live at MacRumorsLive, and Engadget. From the Engadget liveblog: "How many [iPods] did we sell last quarter? Some of the estimates were getting astronomical - 8 million, 9 million. I'm really pleased to announce that last quarter we sold 14 million iPods .. that is over a hundred every minute, 24/7 throughout the quarter. And it still wasnt enough. We've now sold over 42 million iPods -- as you can see the curve is going up again" MacWorld and Ars Technica has coverage as well. The shiniest news: MacBook Pro. iSight, Front Row; $1999 1.67 Core Duo; 667 DDR bus, Radeon x1600; $2499 1.83GHz. Intel chip.
Macbook sounds offensive and computer illiterate.
What do you guys think?
-Sj53
Ouch!
Thanks, but for the rest of us non Apple fanboys it's good enough.
Anyone know what the projected Euro price is going to be? My girlfriend has been waiting for this release before she buys herself a laptop (she's a pro photographer) and its definitely going to be top of the list ..
.. how do you other geeks deal with girlfriends whose laptops are better than yours? aarrgghh ... :)
Man, dunno how i'm gonna feel on my lowly powerbook though
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
It's worth mentioning in the summary that these new Macs are Intel based. The linked articles state this. The first Intel Macs are here, ahead of when they were expected.
I'd hoped for a drop in pricing when apple moved to "commodity" processors...
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro
Dropped FW 800 and cardbus.
Can you load easily dual boot Windows on the new iMac and on the MacBook Pro? If you can then this opens up a new market of tepid switchers. It seems that Steve didn't mention this sort of functionality at all which leaves it as a big question mark for now.
Lasers Controlled Games!
well, that was pretty decent, but kind of strange, yes new powerbooks were to be expected, but now the imacs are faster then the low and midrange powermacs.. i'm assuming in a few weeks we'll see them all go quad core..
i wonder how long till ibooks and mini's
Live EVERY week... Like it's Shark Week
So, this new Apple news is freakin' awesome! I want one of these right now! Now I just have to wait and see if Apple/Mac will finally be validated by the geek community before I can get one. Its long had the approval of the artsy-fartsy and recently, the trendy, but could this be the news that finally gives it approval with my oh so important "Linux or nothing else" loyalist friends? I mean it's a UNIX based OS, dual core chip in a laptop!! Look at the facts people, this is as geeky as it gets.
I like how Apple reinvents pheed and calls it "Photocasting" as well as "incredibly new".
Thanks Steve, but the Associated Press has been standardized on pheed for well over a year now.
Get over it. Or are you still using a Motorola 68k-based Mac?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
We CANNOT allow "MacBook Pro" to take off. Everyone needs to keep calling them Powerbooks. I don't care what Apple says. If customers keep coming into the stores asking for Powerbooks maybe they will come to their senses.
Really, all the top Mac news sites and blogs need to get on board with this. It is NOT a "MacBook Pro". It is and always will be a Powerbook.
Why are they using 2GHz intel chips on the high end iMacs when 3Ghz ones are available on the PC?
Apple has sold Personal Computers (PC's) since 1976. What part of "every Macintosh is a PC" don't you understand? Cheers,
The next pasture is always greener
This isn't the first "Duo" Apple has released in notebook form. The original PowerBook Duo was a very cool machine for its time.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
I guess the real question is can it run Windows, Linux and OS X? What kind of black magic will we need to do to make it work?
Macbook sounds offensive and computer illiterate.
What do you guys think?
The art of choosing strategically well thought out product names is a declining art these days, I need only point to "Windows Defender". While most of us nerds know that Windows is on the defensive in the malware department there is no reason to let the uninitiated masses of Windows users know about it, they think the current situation is normal.
Not that I really care about the 'stupidity' of the MacBook name and I do agree with you that it is kinda clumsy. What I care about is what this MacBook can do and how soon I can get my filthy paws on one. Now if you will excuse me I have to go and empty my piggybank....
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Surely, you jest! How can we call it a PC, when it lacks viruses and spyware?
Yes. The first several generations of PowerBooks ran 68k processors.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
What happened? Where's the Firewire 800? I can understand, maybe, leaving it off the iMac but surely the MacBook should have one? My 15" Powerbook has Firewire 800. I just don't get it. I can't imagine they'd abandon Firewire for USB.
Wow, Apple stock is up almost 7% on this news.
Worth noting that the CardBus slot has been replaced with a ExpressCard/34 slot.
In a related note, apple has gone to a 1024 web site layout now.
__
Thou hast besquirted me, O leotarded one.
The PowerBook line of laptops did indeed exist before the PPC. However, the PowerMac line of machines was named due to the use of the PPC chip.
Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
This is it. Never Microsoft Windows again. Not one more second of pain.
In fact, while I was always die-hard Apple supporter (I'm typing this on my fourth Apple-branded laptop) I appreciate the fact that now I will be able to dual boot in Windows and play the games not-yet or not-at-all released for MacOS. I actually do have a copy of "Deus Ex 2" waiting for the release of Intel-based Macs. Now I'll be able to dust it off... and play on a soon-to-be-mine iMac.
Dude, that sounds to me like "all our previous benchmarks were bogus"!
Next time you know they will say "now with twice the mouse buttons and productivity!"
Now that Apple is joining the upper eschelon of consumer products, it has to think broader than it's own niche market.
For instance, the MacBook was named such because of the possible tie ins with other proven products.
Apple will soon be announcing the Big MacBook Pro. It will feature a larger screen, two all-beef patties, a sesame seed bun, and be cross advertised with McDonalds.
NMG
Power Up With MagSafe
The new power adapter with MagSafe connector is designed to magnetically guide your cord into place and disconnect smoothly if someone (else) trips over it.
---
I think that's awesome. I can't tell you how many times I've grabbed my PowerBook thinking it wasn't plugged in, only to have the chord yanked out, or worse, have the laptop almost pulled out of my hands.
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
What do you mean by "obsolete"? I have a 2+ yo 3G ipod and it works just dandy. Just because I can't squint real hard and watch the newest U2 video deosn't make it "obsolete".
It's not a premium, though. This is the problem with PeeCee guys. --- build the identical comparison machine on dell's or sony's website, make the dell and sony do exactly what the mac does, then come talk. They are usually the same price at that point. Apple doesnt sell crap that doesnt do anything for you. They build machines that have wireless and bluetooth, and fast hard drives and such, and if you want it, you buy it, if not, there is no crap, 500 laptop. They dont waste your or their time. Sorry kids....
MACBOOKPRO! ~ PC OR KABOOM!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
According to the Macbook Pro page, this will be the URL that the new keynote will be posted at. If you keep refreshing (although that's apparently a felony now...) you can let everyone know when it goes live!
How to use coral cache: http://slashdot.org.nyud.net:8090/~oscartheduck
What the hell are you talking about?
I just priced a Dell laptop with relatively the same specs and the price came up to $2621 for a 9400 with a 17" screen (They don't offer a Core Duo with a 15.4" screen) And it's still a fucking Dell. So how's the Mac overpriced?
What part of "It's faster than the G4" and "We tried, but couldn't fit a G5 in it" don't you get?
The product mix has stopped making sense, although only temporarily. In the portable line they have iBook G4 and MacBook Pro intel; in the desktop line they have iMac intel and PowerMac G5.
iMac that's as powerful as a PowerMac? Who's gonna wanna buy PowerMacs for the next couple months? Does Apple expect to make so much profit from the iMac intel over the coming months than the forgone profit from lost PowerMac G5 sales? I would think that the PowerMac G5 made a much higher profit than the iMac.
And a MacBook Pro that's 10x more powerful than a iBook?!? There goes the iBook market...
Anybody else see the logic of transitioning the consumer desktop and pro laptop first, rather than starting with the consumer desktop and laptop, or the pro desktop and laptop, or the pro desktop and consumer laptop, or some other combination?
Apple has sold PCs since back in the days of the Power PCs, and they have always been Macs. There are a couple fundemental differences between what the average geek refers to as a PC, and a Mac. A PC runs windows, and a Mac runs Mac OS. This hasn't changed. A PC can be assembled without the permission of a PC manufacturer, while a Mac is built by Apple, and delived as a whole system. Always. As far as I know, this hasn't changed. A Mac will NEVER be missing drivers for what is inside of it. A PC will almost always be missing drivers for some insignificant piece. These are still Macs.
I have never owned a mac, and have never wanted one... until right now.
Am I the only person who thinks that 1440x900 is a pretty low resolution for a 15" laptop?
My 10" laptop has 1280x768 for goodness sakes.
badness 10000
It looks just like my G4 Powerbook. What's so different?
The Acer Travelmate has the same components, faster processor, more ram, more storage space, but a cheaper price.
Apple's doom is sealed if they are going to start charging more for the same thing you can get in the PC WORLD!
Only difference, Apple is running OSX, so Apple should charge less then the Acer Travelmate, Acer has to pay Microsoft for Windows, Apple doesn't have to pay anybody for OSX.
Apple doesn't get it. They have become PC OEM retailers and with the exception of the OS, every component is made by PC OEM manufacturers, but Apple thinks they can charge more for it. Brand recognition might drive big sales in the first few months, but eventually people are going to realize you can get the same performance in a PC product for cheaper without paying more for the branding, as has been the case for the last few years.
Apple DIDN'T EVEN REDESIGN THE CASE!
MacBook Pro = the biggest joke yet. Apple claims it is more then a PC, it IS a PC, just costs more.
We can finally compare Apple's to Apple's now, I can't wait for the benchmarks that prove Apple isn't anything more then a PC with a different logo. Considering OSX has had lousy comparisons to similar Linux and Windows concepts (like threading performance, etc) which have been provem kernel related, I am sure that we will find that performance on the Mactels are probably not as good as with the same system running Linux or Windows.
Good luck Apple! After a year of hype you have come out with a product that has already been on the market for months.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Actually, they announced a Wired Remote/FM Tuner accessory.
$50 is a bit much for a radio, especially since just about every other mp3 player out there comes with an FM tuner. But now that they've finally caved on adding that feature, I think it's safe to say the 6G iPod will have a FM tuner when it comes along in 6 months.
I'm just damn excited about the MagSafe connector. Probably half of all the laptop hardware repairs I've done were to replace the power connector. It's one of the weakest points in current design, and I'm glad to see someone finally innovating along that front. Although, if this catches on it will mean declines in laptop repair revenue....
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
Sorta annoyed me too, but at least we have an ExpressCard slot. Should be some decent peripherals for it at some point.
Any word on the expected battery life of the MacBook Pro? I couldn't find any info anywhere, so I'm expecting it to be adequate at best. This is the laptop that finally replaces my 867 powerbook, but I might wait until the first revision. Battery life and heat ouptut are big considerations for me.
2x faster? 4x faster?
We've been lied to horribly for the last 3-4 years. Clock for clock intels are as powerful as PowerPC. So when I bought my 1.8GHz iMac G5 it was already slower than equivalent PCs. Now thats all very well and good, except that Apple were screaming that it was faster, better, stronger. That you would be mad to even think about buying Intel, and I sucked it up. Its not even like they didn't know the truth. They've been developing Mac OS X on intel for the last 5 years, so they new they were onto a looser with PowerPC and they still over sold.
Now I'm very happy with my Mac, but the smug sense of superiority that I bought with the Mac has been wiped out. I miss being inside the RDF.
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
And that while it may not have FW800, it does have Firewire 400.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That's what it sounded like to me. I can't check the Apple site since its slowed to a crawl.
An FM tuner is announced and there's No bitching about OGG? I am so disappointed in all of you.
So they did have to take two very interesting -- can we say essential?
Not really. Firewire 800 never went anywhere, and there's an ExpressCard slot for expansion.
What could have the MacBook been if they had stayed with Power
Um, a lot slower?
So this launched has killed the Mac for me.
That makes no sense whatsoever, but ok.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Just how long will it be before someone 'hacks' a way in to view through it at any time?
These days, a lot of people leave their machines on 24/6...I pretty much do all of mine. You've just put up a ready built survellience (sp?) system on yourself, and you might not even know it. Bad for personal usage, but, what if this was in a company somwhere...makes it easy to spy on you.
Will there be a neat little iPatch that you can slip over the camera to prevent is seeing anything?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Sure but you'd still not be able to run MacOS X, the purpose behind getting a Mac in the first place.
Don't lead me into temptation... I can find it myself.
We also have the iMac and PowerMac - probably will become MacPro?
MacBook Pro, as others have observed, is not a good name. It's quite clunky - I keep thinking of the word "brick" when I say it - not a good image when applied to a laptop. My suggestion if they really want to ditch "Power":
iBook - ProBook
iMac - ProMac Simple, and more Apple-like I think.
Why not package the new iMac guts in a case without a monitor? I understand the desire to use their allotment of Yonah processors in the machines that will give them the highest markup, but all the PC fanboys are going to complain now that they don't want to pay for a monitor just to upgrade their machines... and even Mac fanboys aren't going to buy PowerMacs, iBooks, or Mac minis when iMacs and this ( IMHO poorly named ) "Mac Book Pro" are so far ahead of them and clearly on the way out, if not already gone.
Anyone have thoughts on why there were no Mac mini, iBook, or eMac updates ( or Intel conversions ) today ? What is going to happen there ?
The PowerBooks first came out in 1991. There were no PowerPC Macs at that time, and the models introduced (the PB 100, 140, and 170) used the 68000 and 68030. The first PowerBooks with 68040's came out in 1994, as did the first PowerMacs. The first PPC PowerBooks came out in 1995.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Just how long will it be before someone 'hacks' a way in to view through it at any time?
With the switch to Intel, I can see why you're a little confused... these will be running Mac OS X, not Windows.
appreciate the fact that now I will be able to dual boot in Windows and play the games
Actually, this is the most important remaining question about this entire announcement. Is it really the case that one can install Windows on Apple's new hardware? Can any geeks out there truly verify this? Has anyone actually gotten the shipping hardware and tried to install Windows on it and successfully gotten it up and running with a dual-boot configuration?
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple has implemented some kind of unique encrypted handshaking between the OS X installer and the hardware so that only Apple's OS can be installed on it, so that they can avoid receiving support calls from people who put Windows on Apple hardware. Keep in mind that even if they refuse to provide support for such a configuration, the bulk of a support call's cost is in the customer placing the call in the first place. If someone calls only to be told "we don't support that", that has already cost Apple a good bit of money.
Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
Sony VAIO N505VE: power connection killed by my son when he started learning to crawl and pull himself up things
/. I'm guessing it's the kids thing.)
Thinkpad A32: power connection killed by my son about 6 months later
Dell 5160: power connection killed by my daughter as she's learning to crawl and pull herself up things.
Thinkpad R52: power connection seems OK so far. Crossing my fingers.
(Those of you who are thinking, "Well, duh, just keep your laptop away from your kids" either don't have kids or don't have a serious computer addiction. And since you're on
The lack of FireWire 800 - External FW800 hard drives are great and very popular with Powerbook users, why give it up? Put the controller where the now gone modem used to be.
The ExpressCard/34 slot chosen by Apple is not form factor compatible with current PCMCIA cards - No more Verizon 3G wireless broadband until (And if) they release a compatible card - BAD, BAD, BAD!
But you'd be buying a Gateway....
'Nuff Said, or am I missing something here?
And I'm not a Mac zealot, as I'm typing this on my Dell Latitude D810 from my Austin office (hmm.....), but seriously, who buys Gateways anymore?
Bryan "BJ" Hoffpauir
Notice on the tech specs page for the MacBook Pro http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/whatsinside.html no mention of battery life? Does this mean the battery life on the MacBook is poor, since they tout it on iBook & PowerBook tech specs?
Ok, I'll play that game. To get a comparable system, you need to do some serious upgrading to the Gateway. XP Pro (which is free for a limited time), Office Basic (as the mac comes with iWork '06), a single 512mb stick of ram (only available in 533mhz modules, oh well), upgraded graphics, upgraded monitor (the MacBook has a 1440x1960 resolution, closest option on the gateway is the 1400x1040), upgraded hard drive, upgraded optical drive, and upgraded bluetooth.
All of that to get it *almost* equal to the MacBook is $1814.98. Plus, that does not come with a firewire camera, nor a remote control, not to mention all the software Apple bundles in for free.
So the premium is $185.02, and that's only if the additional hardware and software standard on the MacBook are worthless to you.
I dunno who it is
but it prolly is fhqwhgads.
That extra $550 can be measured in five things:
Size and weight(which translates to engineering and design), since the Gateway is 1.3" thick and 6lb and the MacBook is 1" thick and 5.6lb
Dual link DVI; the Gateway only has VGA and s-video, while the MacBook can power the new Dell or the old Apple 30" LCD.
Software: The MacBook comes with iLife, OS X, iChat, etc
Hardware: The MacBook comes with a 640x480 30fps build in video camera
QA: I think Apple notebooks are slightly more reliable than Gateway... but feel free to buy the Gateway if that extra $100 savings means that much to you
All five things together work to roughly $110 per point, don't you think?
GPL Deconstructed
Two words:
Duct Tape.
(it even matches the nice metalic case).
I think a good comparison with the high end model can be made with the 8200:
s p
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1907155,00.a
2GHZ, 2GB ram, 120GB HDD, x1600M 256M, 15.4", GigE, etc. $2499
Apple:
1.83GHz, 2GB ram, 120GB HDD, x1600 256M, 15.4", GigE, etc.
$2899
The acer has a faster CPU and has a better camera
The apple is about a pound lighter, remote control, and some good apps.
-- Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Also absolutely no mention of battery life, apart from a vague "Battery life depends on configuration and use."
I think we may be looking at a return to 2hr. battery life. When you configure a new Powerbook, err, MacBook Pro, at the Apple online store, the first recommended product is the "Rechargeable Battery - 15-inch MacBook Pro - Buy an extra battery to double your battery life when traveling." Hmmm.
Well if you install the X11 application from the Mac OS X disk and install the XCode developer tools (also on the disk, but can be downloaded from apple/developer) you might get all that you asked for.
I know OS X may not have the geek factor, but I really want to use my computer, not compile the OS again, and again.
Whatever floats your boat I guess.
Weirdly, Apple have decided that modems are now optional extras on Laptops. That makes sense for the iMac - but not on a PowerBook.
Like the absence of the Floppy Disk less then a decade ago.
Most hotels and buisnesses use WiFi 802.11b/g. If you really want the modem you get a USB one. But for most systems now it is becoming one of those unused ports. on my powerbook I used my Modem like 4 times in 4 years. Once to see if it worked, 3 Times after I moved waiting for my Cable to be hooked up. Modems are no longer as nessary as they use to be.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
if only someone would come out with a computer that still did useful work after it was obsolete!
A: Clock for clock the G5 is faster than the Pentium 4 architecture, so you were told the truth.
B: Clock for clock the Pentium M based Core Duo chip is faster than the G5. So again the truth.
Mix in some marketing (aka exagerations) and you have your situation.
Statement A: was meaningless because the P4 architecture always ran at a much faster clock speed which made it faster in actual use. So Intel in practical terms has pretty much always been faster.
It helps to ignore marketing and think for yourself what you want.
I never bought a Mac before but I might get one this year becasue I like the new architecture. I am waiting on a new Mini. I hope it uses the new Core Duo and runs cool and quiet. I hope they aren't putting the core solo in the mini as I would have to keep waiting...
"These days, a lot of people leave their machines on 24/6"
And on the seventh day Jobs rested and saw what he had made, and saw that it was good.
Sheesh ...
Ok, when you said you used it for video work on your laptop I was all like, "wow, it's actually plausible that this guy has a raid array or something hooked up and actually needs the bandwidth." Then you had to go and say, "which was a great way to get projects from my G5 onto my powerbook quickly." There is no way your puny laptop drive is actually taking in input faster than fw400 can spit it out.
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
I think the even bigger question is the reverse: can you install Apple's new OS X on your PC?
I know that they probably used the best DRM available in order to prevent this from happening, but just like all other attempts, somebody will figure it out.
I recall someone at Apple saying that they had no intention to prevent other OS from running on the Intel Macs. On the other hand, Windows XP does fairly nasty stuff with any existing MBRs, so unless OS X is designed or patched to cope with the XP installer there would be a problem.
A neater solution would probably be a native version of VirtualPC or an equivalent, as you can then copy and paste between Windows and OS X.
They build machines that have wireless and bluetooth, and fast hard drives and such, and if you want it, you buy it, if not, there is no crap, 500 laptop. They dont waste your or their time. Sorry kids....
You're just plain lying, kid. Every single pentium M laptop dubbed "centrino" has had integrated wireless for the past what, 3 years? Let's check a Dell Inspiron 6000. Base price is 799$, comes with a 1.86GHz pentium M. Bluetooth is a 39$ option. A 7200 RPM drive is a 150$ option. Big total? 990$.
A little shy of the 2500$ for the 1.83GHz MacBook Pro, kid.
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple has implemented some kind of unique encrypted handshaking between the OS X installer and the hardware so that only Apple's OS can be installed on it, so that they can avoid receiving support calls from people who put Windows on Apple hardware. Keep in mind that even if they refuse to provide support for such a configuration, the bulk of a support call's cost is in the customer placing the call in the first place. If someone calls only to be told "we don't support that", that has already cost Apple a good bit of money.
They won't support that, but they declared already that they will do nothing to prevent it. After Apple Intel FAQ:
After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that.
Several readers have asked "Why choose the iMac and MacBook Pro (Powerbook) for Intel chips".
I offer this analysis:
iMac: Best selling consumer model for Apple to select because Pro Apps what are not yet ported aren't used on these systems (at least, that isn't the target market).
MacBook Pro: in DIRE need of a refresh since the G5 could never make it into the line. Also, Pro apps are less likely to be required for a purchase decision because they are so long in the G4-tooth.
Mac mini: As the low cost Mac, upgrading this to an Intel chipset would canibalize sales of higher end units. In addition, the smaller margins of the Mac mini would be eaten up with the redesign and more expensive (and more powerful) chips from Intel.
PowerMacs: The Pro Apps aren't ready. Waiting allows time to announce them when the Pro Apps are available and gives Intel time to offer faster cores.
iBooks: best selling Apple notebooks aren't hurting for more power. Their price point is right for the student/home user and with limited resources/chip allotment, this doesn't offer as compelling a need.
Honestly, I was surprised to get two systems updated to Intel. It is a major switch for Apple and they have done an amazing job busting these two systems out in just 6 months from the announcemnet of their intentions last summer. Even vendors with massive resources due to their market share don't refresh and entire product suite overnight. Give Apple some grace. The (fill in the blank you are waiting for) is coming soon.
I imagine that this summer we will see a "One year ago we said we were switching to Intel and today the entire product line is Intel based" announcemnet.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
There were rumblings about the Intel Macs dropping Classic support, but now it looks official. Compare the software specs for the PowerBook G4 to the MacBook Pro.
Please don't forget:
Reason 6: the ability to be snooty about which brand of computer you are using.
I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
I dunno but for the extra ~$550, I could get a much faster laptop than the MacBook *or* I could get the Gateway and have the money in my pocket.
Yet again somebody makes the case for buying a Kia instead of a Benz. And before anybody is tempted to start bitching about the analogy being invalid since both the Dell and the MacBook have more or less the same 'engine' please note that if the outgoing PowerBook line is anything to judge by you get a bit more than just $550 worth of Software with the MacBook. That would include both consumer software like iMovie, iDVD, (plus a whole slew of other consumer software) and a pretty sophisticated development package. Does the Dell ship with a decent Movie editor, DVD authoring software and a full featured copy of MS Visulal Studio (according to MS that will set you back $799, upgrade: $549) as well as Windows XP? Another point is that the MacBook is likely to remain the only computer on the market able to stably triple boot OS.X Windows, and Linux which for me is a major reason to buy one although personally I probably will settle for running Windows 2003 and LINUX on some Virtual PC type setup.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
... Windows?
:)
(oh well, here goes my karma
Rediculous is ridiculous!
Okay, I'll play that game too.
1. OS X is UNIX-based, so we'll install a UNIX-based OS on the Gateway instead of XP Pro. One of my favorites is SuSE, and you can download it for the cost of one DVD-R/DL or five CD-Rs.
2. iWork '06 is not MS Office, which is also available for the Mac. That costs extra. The Gateway comes with MS Works, and that is more equivalent to iWork than MS Office is. Also, you can get Open Office, which is more than equal to Works/iWork for free.
3. Apple either expects people to go immediately buy another matching stick of DDR2-667 or they are not too bright. The Intel 945 chipset supports dual-channel RAM, so that's why you see very few single-module setups (i.e. the 2x256 and 2x512 configurations for the DDR2-667 in the Gateway.)
4. The hard drives are the same: 80GB, 5400rpm SATA.
5. The Gateway has an 8x DVD burner as opposed to the Apple's 4x one. How is that upgraded? Because it loads from a slot and not a tray?
6. You can get a faster Core Duo chip in the Gateway than you can in ANY MacBook.
7. The Mac has a little nicer screen and a GPU that is a teeny bit better. And it has Bluetooth. You can get a $50 Bluetooth module for the Gateway if you wanted one. And webcams are pretty inexpensive too.
So even with a camera and Bluetooh module, you'd still save about $450 over the MacBook. Face it, there's a stiff premium to run OS X and for the Apple name.
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
It's pretty expensive, to tell you the truth. I ran the specs on a Gateway NX560XL that is set up very similarly to the 15.4" MacBook Pro and got a price of $1454.99.
If price is all you care about, then go to Wal-mart or when Dell or Gateway is having a sale, buy a computer, but all of the other software you need, rinse and repeat in 2 years.
If you want to just get a nice looking, reliable, locally serviceable, notebook and tons of useful software that will last you 4 years or so, buy an Apple notebook.
Its up to you. If you need Linux by your side 24x7 I would go with the cheaper "PC" notebook.
FWIW, the NX560XL has a lower res monitor if that matters to you (not me). XP Pro, which I hear is worth it over home or media (not sure personally) will cost extra or your soul. I doubt the keys are backlit, which is a very nice feature. The new MacBook has a new safety feature that basically eliminates a majority of repairs -- magnetically attached power cord. Although, I've never had an issue with the power cord thing (I'm careful), I believe it might have almost happened once or twice. You're also giving up bluetooth.
There are tradeoffs for every action and inaction. To me, I would spend the extra $500 and get a computer with a better name and rep than a Gateway. Besides the old ones from 1997 or so at work, I don't remember the last time I've seen a Gateway.
They meant a clean-room suit. Bunny is slang for that I guess.
Then you had to go and say, "which was a great way to get projects from my G5 onto my powerbook quickly." There is no way your puny laptop drive is actually taking in input faster than fw400 can spit it out.
Also, they include this great technology in the MacBook... Gigabit Ethernet. I hear it kicks ass at file transfers.
MacBook pro starts at $1999 in the US, forex converts this to 15 226,58 SEK.
;)
1 US$ = 7.62 SEK
However as we all know Apple have their own exchange rates, so:
1 Apple$ = 13.25 SEK and the price in Sweden wents up to 26.495 SEK.
(no, I'm not calculating the fact we have 25% vat, but anyway, it sucks to buy apple hardware in Sweden, I could pay 11.300 SEK for a travel to the US and buy it there...)
The american prices of Apples are ok, the Swedish ones are just retarded.
Of course I want a mac, but not at any price, especially since I haven't got a work
So, shall I buy a Dell (with I can get an extra 30% or so of from) and run Linux/FreeBSD instead? I hate how we are always getting screwed by Apple.
Been doing that for a few years now. Always been cheaper to run Winders. Just not as fun.
I drank what? -- Socrates
Getting reception in buildings can still be a problem, I admit. However, it's becoming increasingly more difficult to find a usable phone jack anywhere. Many office buildings end up having a phone system that doesn't permit easy modem access anyway.
Let's check a Dell Inspiron 6000. Base price is 799$, comes with a 1.86GHz pentium M. Bluetooth is a 39$ option. A 7200 RPM drive is a 150$ option. Big total? 990$.
Wait... is that Dell a dual pentium M?
Does it have a built in camera? Backlit keyboard? I'm too lazy to look up Dell's site but the whole assertion just seems false on its face.
I'm not saying that's an argument for the cost of the 17" MacBook, but c'mon. Different feature sets cost different amounts. Pay what you can afford. Pay for what you want. I just don't see where (not necessarily you) people come off with this incessant 'omg, it's just sooo expensive, just buy a Dell'.
Everyone knows that if price is your only concern you shop at Dell. Dell has run just about everyone into the ground competing on price. They've won that battle.
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
A little shy of the 2500$ for the 1.83GHz MacBook Pro, kid.
Pretty far shy of the Core Duo performance, too, though, isn't it?
FYI, iWork '06 is not standard. It's just a trial version.
Office Basic (as the mac comes with iWork '06)
No, it comes with iWork '06 preview. If you want iWork preinstalled, it is a BTO option for $79 which is the same as retail price.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
You've read 1984, haven't you? Those weren't TVs, they were computers.
Yes, because as everyone knows the Mac has so saturated the market to be near ubiquitous.
"This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
Just curious why the absence of firewire 800 is such an issue.
http://macworld.apple.com.edgesuite.net/mw/index.h tml
.. this nickel and dime crap.
* USB robs CPU cycles (yes, I want all of them)
* USB does not chain
* You don't connect DV devices over USB
* USB on-the-go does not bring it to feature parity with FireWire
* USB has nothing on FireWire in terms of bandwidth
I don't buy Macs because they are missing advanced technology. I buy them because they have it by *default*. I get the latest USB and Bluetooth standards. If I am paying $3,000 for a high-end laptop it better damn well have the latest and greatest version of FireWire that cost them $2 to put in.
And if I bolt a snow plow on a Yugo I have a truck. Bolting garbage on the outside of something is not as clean or appealing as having it built in. Having a Bluetooth dongle and a cam with a cable is not the same thing as built in.
By the way loading of a free *nix is not the same thing as a OS that is supported by a company. So if you have a problem with your install who are you going to call for free support? Go ahead and load iTunes and MS Office on your version of *nix and make sure that you have that special MS support number for Office versions running on *nix.
Why are you bothering with using a Gateway computer you can buy barebones laptops and build your own. Hey you can save even more buying an LCD panel and duct taping a small computer to the back of it.
Why don't you compare similar items. An OS with telephone support, an Office package with phone support, built in features that actually work rather then bolt on items that may or may not work, and when you buy your bolt on crap don't go for the lowest price bargain bin trash go with a name brand item.
I am all for OSS but you might as well say the Gateway is a rip off since includes software. You and I might enjoy playing with computers but 99% of computer users are just that users. Any version of *nix is not as good for the average user because of the lack of a support structure.
If I asked my wife to compile something so she can install a program she needs to run she would tell me to kiss her ass as would 99% of the computer users out there. Talk to someone at Best Buy and ask them how many people come in looking to buy a new computer because their old one is full of spyware and they would rather buy a new one then redo the old one. The Gateway and the MacBook are both directed at those users and the MacBook just happens to do the job better. The right tool for the right job I always say.
-- To mess up an OS X box, you need to work at it; to mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it.--
I have one of those Inspiron 6000s. It's a great machine that does exactly what I want it to do and was fairly inexpensive. Before I picked up the Inspiron, I was using a Powerbook that I had from work that would have been about the equivalent to the Inspiron. Both machines performed well, but the Powerbook was a bit more comfortable to use due to size and build quality. The Dell is roughly twice as thick as the Powerbook and feels signficantly heavier. It doesnt feel quite as well built either. While it doesn't feel fragile, there are parts that don't seem as sturdy as they could be. Part of that extra 1500 bucks is name, but some of it does go towards a better machine.
I'm in no hurry for a new laptop at this point, but if the Intel based MacBooks feel like the older Powerbooks I might go that route for the next laptop I buy.
Why? I mean really. Why in the name of all that is holy would ANYONE want to put Windows on a Mac?
I switched FROM Linux (which I was fairly happy with as a longtime user) to OS X about 6 months ago. Comming from Linux - I actually GAINED games that I can play. That being said - around 1995 I switched from Windows to Linux. I just learned to live without Windows specific software. It really does not take much. What gaming I could not do with Linux I substituted with a console. I can see why some people would want to dual boot Linux (I still feel that open source has great merit and the urge to tinker is hard to overcome), but Windows?
To put it another way - WHY would you go out and buy yourself a Mercedes, drive it home happily, then promptly put a nice set of square wheels on it?!?
There is just SOO much crap in the way of viruses and MBR issues that you'd be creating for yourself that would ruin the reason you own a Mac. Why do that to yourself?
"Now we'll finally be able to combine the security and ease of use of Windows with the flexibility and low cost of Apple hardware!"
(first read somewhere here on Slashdot, I'm sure)
ClutterMe.com - easiest site creation on the Net. Just click and type.
So much for the bogus 42" and 50" media center plasmas.
The Rumors sites, such as ThinkSecret and MacOSRumors.com, were almost universally wrong this time around.
No new iBook. No Intel mini. No plasma TV's. No "media center" mini. No movie streaming on demand (that was Cringely's guess). None of it.
As of this keynote, Intel chips are going into the iMac and the replacement for the Powerbook... just about the only systems which NOBODY predicted upgrades for.
Looks like Apple managed to plug up the leaks from last year.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
OS X.
I can't fathom why they'd introduce a new generation of hardware like this and drop back on features that are almost a no-op to keep.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
as a long time Mac user, the transition to Intel CPU is not something I have been looking forward to. But now I find the following little gem on the apple site
"Most existing applications will continue to run, thanks to Rosetta. Pro applications from Apple -- including Final Cut Pro, Motion, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Aperture, Logic Pro, Logic Express, and Final Cut Express -- are not supported by Rosetta. For these applications, you can upgrade to the Universal version for minimal cost (see "Apple Applications" to right). Third-party applications that require precision real-time playback may perform better with a Universal version."
if I am reading this right, apple is saying "go buy our new intel macs, and oh, BTW, our own pro apps require $$$ updates, and other apps may not work"
well, why would I go do this, get a new mac with its intel CPU, then have to pay more $$$$ to make apples own apps run on it
and yes I am a user of the pro apps, plus all sorts of other apps which I have no idea are going to work at all, let alone as well as they currently do on my PPC boxes
another little gem from the same page on apples site http://www.apple.com/rosetta/
"Rosetta dynamically translates most of your PowerPC-based application to work with your Intel-based Mac. "
note the "most" comment in this one, a real case of butt covering if ever I saw one
now all we need is for the shipping version x86 OSX to be hacked to run on non-apple hardware (if its not already been done), and its the beginning of the end for apple, then comes the very likely "windoze for mac" from the beast, which will reduce apple to iPods, and little else
think about it, why would anyone buy apples hardware when they can run the same software on something much faster, for less $$$
In the case of AAPL stock, the price has gone up 8x in just two years. In stock traders terms, AAPL and GOOG are definitely bubble stocks -- nobody is doubting that the companies are great, but the stocks have gotten out of hand. A high stock rise like this indicates extreme expectations of where the company will be in a couple years. However, it is highly unlikely that a company as old and large as AAPL can grow that fast.
You may want to note that Apple P/E ratio has dropped from the 80s down to the low 40s (not counting the run up to MWSF) and its forward looking P/E is in the low 30s (not counting MWSF run up). I personally would love see the P/E down under 20 but the stock is trending down in P/E not up which is a good thing.
Mac Powerbook - PowerPC = MacBook
Doesnt' exactly roll off the tongue, but it makes perfect sense to me.
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
No, there's a little green LED that turns on when the camera is active. There may be a physical iris too, I didn't think to look for that. Will try to find out and comment again later. At any rate, that still protects you from just about everybody but someone who could slip something into the iSight firmware (or perhaps device driver). That led could even be hardwired into the ccd power, then it's pretty much fool proof.
John, live from MWSF
On Apple Input Peripherals: They're okay, I guess, but I was really hoping for a one-key keyboard and a 109-button mouse
That's interesting. I didn't know what ExpressCard was, so I just looked into it a bit.
/54 form factor device is because you can't deal with the space or heat dissipation constraints of the /34 form factor. There's no other obvious benefit to making the larger card. Your observation that the only available Firewire 800 cards are /54 leads me to think that the reason Apple is moving away from Firewire 800 is that they haven't been able to make it small or cool enough.
Seems that the only reasons to make a
Maybe it's about heat, not money. Hmm.
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
On when Photoshop and such will be native? Oh to be free of carbon!
You're right, the Gateway has the dual core CPU -- I couldn't find another laptop in production with this CPU, and even recent reviews were on pre-production laptops.
Anyway, when I customize the Gateway with Windows XP Pro (+$100), 1 512mb memory module (+$40), a 1400x1050 display matching the MacBook (+$100), an 80gb HD (+$35), and Bluetooth (+$50), the price I end up with is $1625 before shipping and handling (correct me if I'm wrong, but Gateway is mail order only).
That's not including the software bundle that comes with the MacBook, but I'm assuming you already have all the Windows software that does photo, movie, DVD, and website editing? If you don't, that extra cost will easily close the gap between the Gateway and Apple laptops.
Even not considering that, like others have said, I don't think you can compare the quality of a Gateway laptop to the quality of an Apple laptop. And, I own Apple, Gateway, and eMachines hardware (eMachines acquired Gateway from the inside out). I love my AMD64 eMachines laptop, but comparing it's sturdiness and quality to my 15" PowerBook is a joke.
The security cable "port" is still in the middle of the right hand side though, a bad design feature I've commented on before. As is, the cable runs backwards along the right side, blocking all the other ports there. Better placement would be back near the power port, as a notebook locked down at a desk would also tend to be plugged in...
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
I use a PowerBook to earn my living (have a small company. No not in the creative sector. Who told people that Macs are only used there?). $450 is VERY easy to earn back over a couple of years, eh months. Things like Spotlight which make that I don't have t spend time searching for files, and not having to worry about virusses (which advantage may be lost on Intel-based Macs in the near future) make this saving very real. And even if that weren't all there: Working with a nice looking machine, a nice OS, nice apps etc. help to enjoy work. Worth less than a buck a day? Definitely.
Bert
Hot potatoes, Oxford shores, Puck to make amends!
Yet they are usually the ones that drives the ferrari.
You're saying that OSX comes with free telephone support? Besides, SUSE is supported by Novell, or are they not a company?
He's not downloading bits and pieces, he's downloading a complete Linux-distribution, supported by a company, that has telehpone support. Since they support their entire operating system I suspect they support OpenOffice as well. It's very obvious that Mac-fanatics and people that would very much like to kiss Steve Jobs' ass is not very enlightened. Ever heard of YaST? YOU?
-- Linux user #369862
It looks like the new Macs will be all that we hoped. According to this page,they use EFI for their bootloader. So once the rest of the hardware is supported, linux support should not be an issue, and neither should windows (though I have no idea about Windows support for EFI).
Vive la Apple ;-)
I mean no disrespect, but if you are doing any video editing and post-production work on an apple platform machine, why aren't you doing it on a powermac?
Because you can't bring a Powermac into a war zone. Or a flood. Or any kind of disaster. Or anywhere where there isn't stable power. I know people who specialize in disaster footage. They get in, shoot it, run back to their camp/Explorer/hotel and edit, and squirt it out to their clients in a matter of two or three hours. (As a side note, they told me that it was pretty strange that in southern Mississippi during Katrina Sprint's cell phone service went down for days in their area, but data stayed up. Go figure.)
That's one application. There's probably others.
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
I use my Powerbook's modem for sending and receiving faxes. In many lines of business, it's the only way to get things done, especially anything with contracts or that requires signatures. And faxing is indespensible for international business. Fortunately, Apple's little USB (fax?)/modem is super small for traveling.
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
I noticed in the that the MacBook Pro has a lithium-polymer battery instead of a lithium-ion battery like the PowerBook G4. The battery in the new laptop is 60 watt-hour vs. 50 watt-hour for the old laptop. Can anyone tell me why apple would choose a lithium-polymer batteries over lithium-ion.
Well WinBook and MacDaddy were already taken
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I'm sure whan Apple designed this, they didn't say "Who is our primary market? I know, people who shoot disaster footage".
People in that particular niche can pay for a Firewire 800 card to go in the expansion slot without much trouble.
Can somebody please explain to me why the Apple Remote still uses IR and not Bluetooth?
I feel sure that there must be some reason, even if it isn't a very good one. But I can't think of a thing.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
Lapintosh might have worked for the PB 100. The concept is a little old now.
I don't care much for "MacBook" myself, although I hope the early posters are right, and it builds some "Scottish Laptop" vibe. That will go over well with some of their core constituents. Sigh. For that matter so would, say, "Gemini", which also refers to the Core Duo (Sigh!). Or they could have gone a bit retro with the twin theme:
][Book = "twinbook", or Book][ = "Book Two".
They could even pre-empt the Timbuktu ref with their own ads.
Apple must have cringed when they heard Intel was calling the chip "Duo" anything, with the PB 5xx series lurking back there.
Don't trust anyone under thirty.
It does sort of sound like something you'd be asked if you want fries with...
Good point, I hadn't really thought of that. I suppose that's only going to be a *real* problem for people doing HD video, though, huh? I mean, I don't know what the cause of your problems were, but I've *never* had problems importing DV via FW800, even on a ( really ) 800Mhz G4 iMac... maybe there was a controller issue you were having?
In any event, the "MacBook Pro" is undoubtedly much more ready to edit video on-the-go than current PowerBooks, and FW400 is fine for importing DV-quality video, and USB2.0 is there as well, so... I'm guessing the only issues that might *really* arise fo rthe on-the-go video editor is if they're doing HD or want faster access to disc drives than FW400 or USB2.0 offer. Sadly, I see a lot of things going to USB2.0...
Of course, I suppose you could always use that ExpressCard slot to host a Firewire 800 card, though, couldn't you? Since it's such a specialized need, I guess Apple could be forgiven for providing the ports more commonly needed...
For that matter, the new iMacs are likely to outrun all current PowerMacs but the dual dual core. That's bound to be a bit of a marketing problem.
Only if selling iMacs instead of PowerMacs is a problem, really, I guess :-). They'll get their PowerMacs updated by the end of the year, probably in less than 6 months or so... I'm guessing it's not really going to be a problem. Forget PowerMac sales, though... who is going to buy a Mac mini now??
Using Rosetta meany applications compiled for PPC can run.
There is an option to compile for Intel or PPC when developing using X-Code and X-Code uses gcc as a compiler.
Most applications should be fine, more exotic utilities will probably need recompiles, and if they are still being developed it should be a small amount of work for the developer; especially if they arleady make the tool available cross platform.
What, $2? $5? When did Apple become Dell / Wal-Mart?
If your line of sight is broken, so is your control. But I did just think of a good reason: battery life.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
Here is the link for the keynote: http://macworld.apple.com.edgesuite.net/mw/index.h tml
Attitudes make the difference between Space and Time: we want to MAX our temporal, and MIN our spatial extension.
I bought a Mac Mini last summer right before the Intel announcement (D'oh!). Anyways, I bought a DVI to Composite/S-Video convertor. Image quality is great coming off the DVI port, but I couldn't get it work with my PC's video cards (either a Geforce4 ti4200, or ATI Radeon 9800 Pro). You can find a link to it here on the Apple Store http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/c anadastore.woa/72208/wo/nZ1BJ9hIeFDv3cQ0TSnFsbbu4M Q/5.SLID?mco=7434E310&nplm=M9267G%2FA
I can't spell ripburger
That's: "you're gay".
Not necessarily.
This sig left blank for page turns.
I am so glad the Novell has decided to give away free telephone support for a free product. No wonder they are on the verge of collapse if they are giving you free software and then letting you talk to a person on the phone for support. Wait thats not right if YOU PAY Novell then you get phone support. Being a dumb ass is why you equate a free product with a paid for support product.
.deb are so wonderful then why is the in internet full of 1000's of questions about installation issues? The people that put the packages together do a fine job but since they aren't being paid they don't fix all problems because they don't have the resources.
I hope to God you don't work in IT and actually are allowed to make architecture decisions. Hey lets use SUSE cuz it is free and Novell supports it. Wrong blowzo Novell will only support it if you PAY them. Please show me all of the phone numbers for all of the free distributions so I can give them to people when they have a problem.
Find me 1 single company or person that gives free phone support for any free version of *nix. You use something free to make your point and then when your balls are nailed to the door you resort to name calling and see see Novell supports it. So you need to add in the cost of a support contract for a single user copy of SUSE from Novell. What is the cost of that? The online support for *nix is terrible for the non-technical user. The *nix forums are notorious for flaming newbies with what they consider a trivial problem that anyone worthy of using *nix should know.
Oh by the way how does a person that has one computer get on the internet to see how to fix his networking problem that won't let him on the internet. If Yast, rpm, and
You know it is better to be a moron then a fuckhead with a brain the size of his penis like you. As for enlightenment the closest you get to being enlightened is when you pull your head out of your ass once a year to see if winter is over.
-- To mess up an OS X box, you need to work at it; to mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it.--
I hope the don't go from PowerMac to MacTop.
The last time I was in a war zone, I was forced to split a man open with my canteen because I couldn't get the full 800Mbps transfer rate to my external hard drive. Nevermind the fact I couldn't find a power supply for that thing anywhere in the desert... that mofo had to die!
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
When I say "nobody" I'm talking in the context of rumors sites.
There's a big difference between the guess-work and speculation of a handful of slashbots (some of whom are bound to be right, in the way a broken clock is right twice a day), and somebody like Think Secret telling us that "inside sources" are informing them of a new iBook and an Intel mini.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Since Mac Rumors runs just about every whisper of every last thing that might happen, they can claim to have "predicted" it no matter what happens.
Just five days ago, they were claiming Apple was about to announce 42" and 50" plasma screens for use with "Viiv" at the Keynote.
That's about as valid as the half-dozen or so Slashbots who replied to my post by saying "I said it would probably happen." Sure, out of the thousands of people who like to speculate on Apple's next move, somebody's gotta win the lottery.
My question to all of you who are so proudly claiming to have called it correctly is, how much did you wager on that betting site that Slashdot was telling us about last week? You'd be a rich man today if you actually "predicted" it and had the confidence to put a little money down on it.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Apple's developer transition information indicates that Intel Macs will use the new Intel / Microsoft Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI), which is not BIOS or open firmware, but is conceptually similar to open firmware in a number of ways. This specification is newer than Windows/XP, so it is unlikely that current versions of Windows will install without some sort of emulation layer; Windows Vista on the other hand will be EFI-aware, and may therefore be directly installable on Intel Macs. Note though that a working, stable installation of Vista will very likely require drivers for various pieces of Mac-specific hardware, and the likelihood of Apple making these available is I think fairly remote. However, MS or third parties might offer them if there is enough demand -- Microsoft do after all already support the Mac in various ways, and would doubtless be very enthusiastic indeed about the idea of selling an extra few million copies of Vista to owners of Intel-based Macs.
NB: various versions of Linux are already EFI-aware, and it is likely that these will have driver support for the new Macs fairly soon after the Linux developer community gets their hands on some. This job is made easier by the fact that there is much less variance in Mac hardware than is the case for more "generic" PCs, and the very newness of the Intel versions means that there aren't even any legacy systems to worry about, a factor that will also doubtless be a consideration for the boys in Redmond.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
"These days, a lot of people leave their machines on 24/6" And on the seventh day Jobs rested and saw what he had made, and saw that it was good.
No, he sat down to watch the ladies, on his newly developed network of xxx spy cams xxx.