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Apple Says 250,000 iPhones Sold to Unlockers
Hugh Pickens writes "Timothy D. Cook, Chief Operating Officer at Apple, disclosed during Apple's conference call to discuss their fourth quarter earnings that they estimate 250,000 of the 1.4 Million iPhones that have been sold were bought by people intending to unlock the phone. 'The elasticity in demand with the price drop] enabled us to far surpass our expectation of hitting around a million units cumulatively by the end of the quarter. Some number of these were sold to people that have an intention to unlock and [while] we don't know precisely how many people are doing that, our current guess is there is probably 250,000 of the 1.4 million that we sold where people had bought them with the intention of doing that. Many of those happened after the price cut.' Apple knows how many iPhones have been sold and how many have been activated with ATT. The difference is the number that are unlocked."
Maybe its just me, but who cares about the iPhone? Normally I'm pretty excited about Apple products, but it really seems like just another phone. Yeah, it has a few more bells and whistles, but its not revolutionary or anything. And the whole AT&T lock in deal is a big downer. Maybe the next rev will be more exciting.
Couldn't some of that 250 000 just people not bothering activating them or planning on giving them away as christmass gifts or whatnot.
Does anyone else find it somewhat ironic that a company that has roots in defrauding Ma Bell is having these problems now?
From the article:
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
And just in case you were still thinking you wanted to see proof that the lock-in to AT&T is all about the Benjamins, here it is:
My blog
ATT shareholders are the ones who should be paying attention.
25% of the affluent side of the market is willing to risk bricking a $400 phone to avoid their service.
That is a pretty large percentage of people trying to unlock it. The phone is amazing, I have to admit that, and Im happy with ATT. I moved from sprint. I love and support Apple products completely. After earnings report yesterday the stock is at 187. That is a true testament to anyone who doubts what this company is capable of. http://www.everything-macs.com/
How many more iPhones would have been sold if it was unlocked in the first place.
Yes, CaptainCrunch is the origional "Unlocker"!
I'd like to know how many of those 250,000 phones were resold (on ebay?) for a premium? On one hand, those extra sales are obviously good for Apple. On the other hand, that could also be viewed as an opportunity cost for Apple...
I guess I'm one of many people that would be interested to see the numbers on the whole 'exclusive cingular deal' thing. I'm guessing there must be quite a hefty payment per unit by cingular to apple. Looking at these figures, apple were expecting 1 million sales at the end of Q4, and ended up with 25% more sales as a result of sales to unlockers, if they were expecting this then I'm guessing the payment per unit must be at least a third of the unit price.
I guess we'll know when it goes on sale in France (where due to law it must be sold unlocked). I assume they'll be whacking on the appropriate additional cost.
I also wonder why Apple really care? I mean they already signed the deal, and they're making 'reasonable' efforts to uphold their end of it, so why do they care enough about unlockers to bother with a patch aimed at preventing it? Esp. since they're getting more sales out of it....
Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
From a business perspective, I understand the benefits of profit sharing especially when you have a lock on the market with your new product. However, when 18-20% of your market makes the active effort to purchase your product and create a workaround, I firmly believe that Apple could have printed their own money if they opened sales up to all companies that can handle a SIM card.
Being a T-Mobile customer, I wasn't an early adopter for the iPhone. I would have been if I was an AT&T customer, but having looked at it demographically I see this:
There are people who want an iPhone:
-And get it
-But have a different carrier
-And buy the hacked version for 90% of the functionality
-And can't justify the cost
-But won't pay the switching cost.
-But they really want a ZunePhone
.02
My
Missing from this oversimplified calculation are iPhones sold but not yet registered with AT&T. This would include (and is potentially a figure large enough to throw off their estimate) iPhones sold to non-registered resellers.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Once the web browser on the iPhone can support shockwave, flash, and javascript, I will be interested.
As it stands a lot of the sites that I visit won't work on the iPhone, because of that lack of support.
I can honestly say I like the Prada phone more than the iphone. And its not a pain to unlock either.
Or they are stashed away from little Timmy for Christmas or a birthday. You know get the iphone before the x-mass rush.
I smoked pot once. But I DID NOT inhale. Will you hire me?
Or they could still be sitting unopened in various retailers' inventories.
Maybe the market is speaking and there is demand for a hackable, open-architecture phone? Perhaps a demand that might be met by a company savvy enough to notice such a demand and satisfy it?
(pauses for effect....then bursts into laughter!)
HAHAHA!! Naw, I'm just bullshitting you. Obviously in the market demand is in error and truncheons must be applied for consumer reeducation.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
and that would be me. :)
:)
:P)
:)
As a Canadian, I didn't have much choice. It was unlock it, or wait until Apple and Rogers get their act together.(Rogers is basically the only GSM carrier in canada. Fido is the other one, but it's owned by rogers now)
There's no light at the end of the tunnel for Canadians either. There are 2 hurdles currently slowing down the release of the iphone in Canada:
1) the iPhone name is already trademarked by a voip company called Comwave. I know this because I'm an iphone customer in more ways than one!
2) the data rates in Canada are insanely stupid. I don't even subscribe to data and just rely on wifi around the big cities to fulfill my data needs. The best deal I can get from Rogers is $10 for 10MB. After that, it's $0.03/KB. Yes, you can do the math. The 2nd 10MB will cost you another $300**. Now you know why I don't subscribe to data.
Going the unlock route might even make sense when indeed it does show up north of the border. You know they'll force you to subscribe to data, and you know they'll want a lock in for 2-3 years. So even if it was available in Canada now, I might still have unlocked an iphone anyhow.
Just my $0.02 CND. (And yes, it's actually worth more than your $USD now
** - Can someone double check for me, I'm still in disbelief at the $300 for the 2nd 10MB
AirSpeak - http://itunes.com/apps/AirSpeak
I'm all for hacking around this kind of crap. Remember when Nintendo tried to sue Game Genie? In that case, the judge ruled that once you buy a piece of hardware, you can't force someone to use it the way the manufacturer intended, at least not through lawsuits.
I wish someone would explain to me, why they just don't sell the Iphone with a contract for AT&T service instead of trying to force people to use AT&T via locking the phone. I mean that's how it's done with all the other phones. If it is exclusive through a provider, you have to buy a service contract with that provider. Simple and no bricking... Mayby Apple and AT&T are just stupid.
I can't believe I'm responding to this, but the iPhone isn't white, and neither is pretty much any of the latest generation of anything else Apple's put out. They got bored with white.... finally.
Shinma
You gotta love it when people explaining things to investors paint things in a zero sum world as if being more forceful in math makes them look better. The difference in their equation may also be due to:
christmas gifts, or blended, as previously posted
fell off the truck (stolen merchandise)
people buying extras in case they break
buying for kids or boyfriend/girlfriend but deciding to give to someone else who deserves it more
buying but not really needing it yet (waiting for current contract to expire)
buying but pissed at AT&T / waiting for an unlock solution to surface
buying for use/testing outside U.S.
buying to try and unlock (hackers of all ages)
buying to try and unlock/analyze/reverse engineer (competitors)
miscounted or in transit perhaps
employees / associates of Apple/AT&T or others who bought up to make a killing
people who want to take revenge on AT&T snooping by making them lose money.
Granted 250K units is a lot. Probably AT&T wiretapping, inconvenient service locations and the horror stories of thousand dollar phone bills has made people hold back. But the only way to really know is to interview people who bought iphones and add up the stats.
Only thing to add is well two things.
1. In Japan, many phones are only available from a certain wireless phone service company. If you look at NTT DoCoMo they have a certain product code for a minimum feature set and then a number of manufacturers can choose to build one with their own interpretation, style, and additions to it. The U.S. with a primitive phone market (except for the iPhone) is far more demanding. It seems to mean that it will be difficult for phone manufacturers to use telecom companies to fund manufacturing in the U.S. and might even point to more lock-in financing programs where you have to guarantee to use the phone for 2 years. I can only hope a lot of different companies all try different models to see what sticks.
2. I want a mac book pro in a laptop with slide-out full keyboard. With ZFS and multi-touch. So do I wait even longer or should I buy a cheaper macbook as soon as possible?
250k is quite a large percentage. I live in Mexico and there are countless offers from many people that are now selling (at an increased price) unlocked iPhones to use with local wireless providers. The iPhone is an awesome piece of hardware, it would be even more awesome if you could buy it free from any locks.
IMHO agreements like the one between ATT and Apple only hurt the final consumer. I wonder what could have happened from a revolutionary launch date of worldwide unlocked iPhone sales so that if you live in NY, Tokyo, or Zimbabwe you could buy your iPhone and use it as you please.
If around 250k iPhones are bought by people willing to go through the trouble and risks of unlocking and maybe damaging a USD 599 piece of hardware, just imagine the increase in sales if this device was sold free from these restrictions. I guess its all part of corporate BS, we can only dream that someday a business will have the vision to support openess.
That's MARKET penetration, for the dirty-minded of you out there.
Listen, I'm not going to buy an iPhone any time soon. I'm a grad student and just can't afford it. In fact, by the time I can afford one, every other cell phone manufacturer will have something that copies all its features, although Apple will also keep up and have some better phones, etc. But I think Apple is doing absolutely the right thing with the iPhone, and as annoying as some of their actions have been, they're ultimately going to our benefit as well as theirs. This isn't altruism. They want profit. It's just that they know about user demand, but they presently have their hands tied.
Here's something you need to realize: Apple doesn't like this lockin any more than you do. Oh, sure, they like the kickbacks, no doubt. But the lockin has caused them untold grief from both technical and PR angles. And the KNEW this even before setting out.
So why put us through all this bullshit? Because before there was an iPhone, there was no specific demand for it. As an idea, there was GENERAL demand, but there wasn't a phone from Apple already that you could play with to tell that you really want a phone from Apple. If Apple were to start out with an unlocked phone, they would shoot themselves in the foot--no carrier would pick up their phone, because there wouldn't be enough guaranteed profit in it. As it is, Apple and AT&T have going basically the only way to go about it and not have the iPhone be a total waste of time that tanked before it started. The key factors here are (1) to get users familiar with it and addicted do it, and (2) make significant profit. The only way to do these things is to sell them by the millions. The only way to sell by the millions AN UNPROVEN PRODUCT is to make a deal with a major carrier who will see enough profit in it to help push it on buyers.
In short, what Apple did was SMART. Oh, it wasn't NICE. But it was SMART, because frankly, it's the only way to meet these basic business requirements.
I guarantee you that before iPhone+AT&T, T-Mobile was only passingly interested in it, considering it to be a very risky thing to take on. NOW, they're shitting themselves and are about ready to beg Apple to sell to them. Apple knows this. This is why Apple did what they did. They had to prove themselves, and now everyone wants them. One way to prove yourself is to sell the product successfully. The best way for them to sell the iPhone successfully THE FIRST TIME was to take another route.
Apple is smart and is going to take advantage of their popularity. Once AT&T becomes dependent on the iPhone because they see it as highly profitable, they'll agree to terms more favorable to Apple, which is that Apple will sell to other carriers, and the phones they sell will be unlocked! Apple is not only aware of what the users want; they've ancipated what the users want and are preparing to give us those features. They just can't yet. Apple is fighting tooth and nail with the unlockers, not because they give a shit about unlocking. They WANT unlocking. In fact, they're probably elated that users are able to use the phones on other networks. But they have to put on a good show for AT&T! They have a contract with AT&T that requires them to maintain the lockin. And they MUST maintain that lockin, because they have not YET achieved that critical mass of adoption.
Oh, BTW, if Apple doesn't do as I predict, users will become jaded and lose interest in the iPhone as the competition catches up and DOES provide what people want. I don't think Apple is that blind or stupid. Otherwise, they wouldn't get half their Mac sales from people who've never before owned a Mac.
These aren't people "avoiding" AT&T service. They're likely nearly all people who don't even live in the United States, who get phones via people who buy dozens or hundreds at a time to make a side business out of selling unlocked iPhones to people all over the world who simply must have the latest and greatest thing.
The only people "avoiding" AT&T service in the only market where they iPhone was legally sold that quarter could be T-Mobile customers, and, news flash, there is no way 250,000 iPhones are going to T-Mobile customers who have unlocked them. I'd be surprised if it was even 25,000. A more accurate number would probably be 2500.
So these phones are mostly going to people who can't even *have* local AT&T service (other than via roaming partners), not people who are actively avoiding becoming an AT&T customer.
I'm currently a Cingular customer, since 2004. So, I'm not under a contract, and I don't want to enter another in order to I buy a non-subsidized phone at full price. So, if I were to buy an iPhone, I would be fine with keeping my Cingular service, but I would use the activation hack. So, according to Apple, I'd be an unlocker as well?
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
Apple knows there are 250K unlockers and yet will still turn those iPhones into bricks with first firmware update. WTF? Jobs is laughing at you.
Within a thousand, it's total sold - total number in the field that are working - those in repair in apples shop - a fair number for lazy people and cross corelate that with those who refused the brick update and you have X. My guess is that it is higher than 250k
FlyingPizzas.com, for the tasteful hermit
Apple won big on this. They receive a kickback from AT&T for the locked phones, and they also make profit on sale of the UNlocked phones - some of which they sold at full retail, not wholesale to AT&T.
I have to suspect Apple knew this would happen, but probably not at this scale. Obviously there's a demand, so industrious people are buying up iPhones, unlocking them, then selling them on Ebay (or wherever) at a markup.
My 3-minute research on Ebay shows:
6693 iPhones on Ebay,
$500 average price for an unlocked 8gb model ($399 direct from Apple)
So people are willing to pay a $100+ premium for an unlocked iPhone even though it voids the warranty.
Welcome to what Smartphone and Pocket PC owners have been enjoying for over 5 years, plus quite a bit more since there are over 3000 games, 5000 applications, GPS, and 100's of devices which support the windows mobile platform.
Sure the WM platform has its problems, it just amazes me people are stunned when can use a web browser, read PDF, and view video on a phone when it has been around for so long, and oh yeah, you can get a better equiped Smartphone for about $200 less than an iPhone, and most of them are already unlocked.
Though I do think that the iPhone is a big deal, I would agree that in relation to this particular press release, who cares about the iPhone?
The real news was that for the first time ever, Apple sold more than 2 million macs in one quarter. And not only did they break the 2 million mark, they shattered it by an additional 160,000 (2.164m sold).
Say what you want about the proprietary nature of hardware and software or DRM that is just as much a part of the Apple as it is Microsoft, but that is irrelevant to the big picture. The quarter after quarter sales improvements that Apple is getting is proof not only of the growth of the personal computer market, but also that people are finally sick and tired of Windows enough to switch to an alternative OS. Though Apple probably is going to get the majority of switchers because of its name and the "Halo Effect", this also means that Linux will be getting more mainstream attention simply because it is a Windows alternative. All the software and hardware companies holding off from developing for only the windows platform are going to be left out in the cold or will have to adapt real quick once they realize the momentum of this movement.
Atleast one got blended .. And there are those people opening them up and eventually never get them together again. So on.
"The difference is the number that are unlocked."
No, it isn't. The difference is the number that haven't been activated yet, have been lost, stolen, broken, etc., OR have been unlocked.
Sent from my iPhone
Or they just aren't American. I know, you guys just forget about us from time to time, it's ok.
But Apple pissing all over 1/4 million affluent and discerning customers... Where is the sense in that?
-- http://thegirlorthecar.com funny dating game for guys
why it is possible to purchase an iPhone outside of an AT&T contract? If Apple and AT&T were so concerned with keeping this an exclusive, then they would have made it so it could only be bought by new or existing AT&T customers via contract. If a customer signed up then immediately canceled their contract then they would have to return the phone or pay a substantial penalty for not returning it (say an extra $400 - $500). That would deter anyone except the most committed uber-geek from using them outside their service.
Given that something like this wasn't implemented, I must believe that Apple and AT&T were counting on this to happen to generate buzz for the product. Why else would you make the phone available outside of official AT&T channels?
No, The Difference is the number that are unlocked OR un activated!
--AD
... The difference is the number that are unlocked.
unlocked, or, bricked as a result of trying to unlock it.
Somewhat offtopic... I also live in Canada and am interested in the iphone; are you using Rogers for this?
if they were planning on this, why did they sign up for a *five* year deal with AT&T?
AKA fucking your customers up the ass without a condom or lube
Of course that number is wrong. Not by a huge amount, but it is wrong. Some unlocked them but still activated with AT&T and some held the phones for gifts for friends, such as Wozniak who bought several and held them for gifts. I'm sure there are quite a few people in the same boat.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
It's a two-year deal.
The big deal is that enough people unlocked the phone to cause Apple to change course regarding a locked phone, and an SDK.
Consider: 250K additional units sold at a profit of $100-200 each = $250-500 million dollars.
If Apple managed to close the unlock loopholes, what percentage of those unlockers would open AT&T accounts? 10% at best - 25K subscribers?
So, given these numbers, it is in Apple's favor economically to offer an unlocked iPhone, and since they contractually obliged to AT&T not to release an unlocked phone, they'll do the next best thing: create an SDK and stop hassling third-party developers.
This also satisfies developers' demands for an open platform, but that's just a side dish.
So tell me what you think what have transpired had Apple simply sold the iPhone already unlocked right from the start without having any contract with any provider at all? Do you think cell carriers would have turned down the signups they get? You can buy imported unlocked phones now and signup with a carrier. How many more iPhones would have sold had it
Traditionally, locked phones are sold by the carrier at a deep discount, or in some cases given away, with cost recovery through term service as the lockin justification. If I get a phone from party A, I pay party A for it, whether that be all at once now, or through a time payment plan, or some combination of that. But with the iPhone we have a case of party A selling phones that require service from party B. I don't know where any anti-trust laws prohibit that now, but IMHO they ought to (so that means if they don't, I favor changing them so they do).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
What about people who hacked their iPhones but are still on the ATT network? My boyfriend was already an AT&T customer when the iPhone came out and wanted one really badly... only to discover that because he was a corporate customer, he couldn't have one because the iPhone wasn't able to be activated for corporate accounts. Pretty lame really, at least from a PR standpoint. I mean, all these corporate customers hauling around iPhones is some of the best damned advertising a company could get!
Anyways, when the hacks started coming out, he bought an iPhone and did the hack so that he could use the phone with his corporate AT&T account. AT&T is getting their money, Apple got their money... and yet he's one of those quarter million phones that was bought to be hacked which is apparently bad. I wonder how these people fit into this discussion of hacked iPhones.
...if they were planning on this, why did they sign up for a *five* year deal with AT&T?If they'd managed to sign a two year deal, AT&T would currently be downplaying the iPhone and trying to push other models to prevent Apple from gaining to much leverage on them. AT&T needs to feel secure that the iPhone will be making them a lot of profit for some time to come. Also, a longer term deal means a better share of the profits for Apple, and Apple needs the iPhone to pay for itself and be proven successful in the long term.
In future, Apple will do whatever will make them the most money. If other device manufacturers step up and compete, that will almost certainly be multiple carriers and may be complete unlocking. Apple goes with the market. When the market demanded DRM that did not get in the way and allowed for CD burning, they provided it. When the market demanded no DRM, Apple provided that. The trick is getting enough competition in these locked down, cartel controlled markets (music, phone service) so that people can find some innovative provider. I'm hoping for a Google cell phone and service, myself.
iPhones are being sold, and Apple gets that money.
.22 or a .500 big-game rifle shot to the chest to ATT has yet to be seen.
if they are supposed to get a weekly steering fee/kickback from SBC/ATT/Cingular = ATT, that's an annoyance, depending on the size of the steering fee/kickback.
what this is saying is that 20% of the geek population won't go with ATT wireless even at the pain of not being able to use the latest wonder toy.
this is not a problem for Apple. this is a shot to the chest for ATT. the single hottest device on the planet, and 20% of customers will risk turning it into a brick to avoid them.
whether it's a
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
All of you hacking the iPhone and disabling the phone feature to get the rest - why not wait for the iTouch? No phone involved and cheaper. I would not waste my time with AT&T - they could GIVE me a iPhone and I would not want it bundled with AT&T
Stop by and watch a Christmas movie, commercial or cartoon! -->http://www.XmasDVD.com
It was blended. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI
If Apple had just sold unlocked phones, there MIGHT have done just fine. But I think this deal with AT&T dramatically improved their chances. A lot of the process of rolling out a new product is publicity, and making this deal with AT&T gave them an immediate advertizing channel. Plus, Apple is very careful about this "experience" thing, where they control the environment so as to minimize problems. MacOS is awesome for the novice, but to make it usable for an expert does require a fair amount of tweaking with some add-on programs and such. The thing is, if Apple were to ship with these things, they'd be increasing their chances of problems. If you install a third-party app, and the system does something funny, then it's your fault or the fault of the app developer. But Apple does not by any means PRECLUDE these add-ons when you know what you're doing.
This goes along with the current lack of dev kit or the iPhone. The launch MUST go smoothly, with minimal problems. Delaying the introduction of a dev kit gives Apple the opportunity to demonstrate how a virgin iPhone works. If a dev kit had been released with the phone, the market would have been flooded with 3rd part apps that would muddy the waters--people won't necessarily be able to distinguish whether a major problem was the fault of Apple or the 3rd party. People are most likely to blame Apple. Once we're used to virgin iPhones, then when 3rd party apps break things, Apple benefits because we automatically blame the app developer instead.
So, back to the locking issue, supporting a single carrier is FAR easier than supporting everyone. For one thing, AT&T were actually willing to work with Apple in order to support interesting features like the visual voice mail. That is, certain features exist ONLY because of the relationship. If Apple had tried to work with every carrier, then some carriers would not provide services that are an integral part of the iPhone experience that is making everyone drool over it. Add to that the complications of activating a phone. With one carrier, it's trivial. With every carrier, just associating the phone with the network requires technical knowledge that many people don't have. Even if the problems were relatively slight, they would have MASSIVE impact on adoption.
So, I maintain that stricking a deal with a carrier (any carrier, but a specific one) was CRITICAL to the market penetration of the iPhone. This gives Apple the control they need over the network. The contract with AT&T goes both ways. If you can't use your unlocked iPhone with T-Mobile's feature X, you're screwed. If you can't get it to work with AT&T, you call customer service, and they fix it for you. Indeed, you're not going to want to have an iPhone with a carrier that Apple doesn't have a contract with. You WILL run into some technical problem along the way, and you're going to want to have a supported device on a supported carrier. The only difference is that all the carriers use the same phone and would let you migrate between them. (Or they better, else Apple will be doing something stupid or inexplicably failing in the market.)
BTW, those who already own iPhones probably hope that, once the AT&T contract is over, Apple will provide a way to unlock your phone. This might or might not happen. Apple's far better than other PC makers about supporting older hardware, but they also engage in tactical obsolescence. A first-gen iPod will work fine with the latest iTunes, but there are no firmware updates for it, so you don't get, for instance, memory as to where you left off when you were last listening to an audiobook or podcast. Every time you patch a device's firmware, you take a risk of breaking it, so there are not just profit but also engineering reasons to not provide an "it ain't broke" update like that, even if the newer iPhones are unlocked.
Only the rich could afford the 50/50 work/holy day split.
The "middle class" got 1 to 2 days off a month.
And slaves got damn near nothing, more if you where a rich house slave, less if yo worked the mines or prostitution.
Replaceable battery?? In an Apple product?? Come on, how are they supposed to get you to buy a new one every couple of years? Worked for iPod.
Three comments, all iPhone stuff.
Where'd you go? You insisted that unlocking phones was something only a small, insignificant portion of the population did. Then Apple turns around and says something like this.
How'd that feel?
The iPhone is so last summer. Move on people!
I know a lot of people who want a PDA and not a PDA/phone. Some people still want to be able to talk on the phone while looking at their PDA and not have to use speaker phone while doing so.
Yeah, perhaps there is a market for a heavier, bulkier phone with a replaceable battery, GPS, and 3G.
This is definitely not that phone.
What about people who don't understand what the word 'Estimate' means?
Yeah, I'm looking at you.
Also, it isn't designed for the corporate account and it is not aimed at corporate accounts. There are features that he is not getting by tying it to a corporate account.
There are many reasons for this that even you could probably find out about.
Gah..please Think.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I tend to disagree. First off, it's not merely kickbacks, Apple gets a portion of the monthly fees during the contract. That is revenue for years after the initial product sale. Compare this to an ipod in which they only get their money for the initial sale. You can't think that Apple wasn't drooling over this. And, in fact, they took the same deal to the carriers in Europe. To the people that say they don't want to sign up for a contract for an unsubsidized phone, its actually kind of the reverse. Instead of the carrier using a portion of your fees to make the phone cheaper for you, they are using a portion of your fees to pay off Apple. I don't think the parent is right when he says that Apple's actions are going to our benefit.
There absolutely was specific demand for it. People were clamoring for it well before it was announced. You can even look at it as an evolution of the ipod and forecast the demand. There is no way that a company like Apple can't do the proper market research and figure that out. And, as mentioned, they are pulling the same tricks in Europe after they have tons of forecasting data to build upon.
Apple doesn't need carrier lock in for market penetration. Again, this is APPLE, not HTC or something like that. They have etablished marketing and distribution channels for consumer electronics.
For Apple, this is only about maximizing profit. They know the end user will pay and they know that AT&T will pay, so they're milking it. I think that AT&T only signed up as a defensive move.
Apple's locking is to benefit their bottom line and nothing else. They could have released it unlocked with no carrier tie in and they would have sold a lot more than they have now, but they wouldn't still be reaping the benefit for two years. I think the iPhone is a cool device and am still considering getting it, but I don't for a moment think that Apple cares about wireless freedom; they care about what's in my wallet.
Now, if you want to talk about the price cut tactic with regard to market penetration/share, I'm all with you.
From TFA:
"We are thrilled to have sold 1.1 million iPhones during the quarter and customers are really loving the product.
We are recognizing revenue from iPhone handset sales using subscription accounting over a 24-month estimated economic life. Total revenue recognized during the quarter from sales of iPhones, iPhone accessories, and payments from AT&T was $118 million. Total deferred revenue from iPhone and Apple TV was $636 million at the end of the September quarter compared to $180 million at the end of the June quarter."
Define not playing games with financials !!
They sold 1.1 million phones PLUS accessories PLUS a cut from at&t BUT booked $118 million. They spread the sale price over 24 months it seems....anyone actually making 24 payments for their phone? I need to learn this trick......
"Apple knows how many iPhones have been sold and how many have been activated with ATT. The difference is the number that are unlocked."
Well, unlocked, or blended. We all know at least one was blended.
Is it funny that I just read an article about revirginizing (locking back) your iPhone before coming to /.?
http://www.tuaw.com/2007/10/23/iphone-elite-team-announces-revirginizer-release/
This may be helpful for those unlockers who want to upgrade the software from 1.0.2 to 1.1.1.
Compaq was the original clean-room BIOS replacer, taking two teams, having one discover Magic Stuff in the PC3150, never mind now, and team two getting sterilized reports on the order of "system call xB33790, functions input x, y, z, and output a, b, c ,d, and memory jump to xB56000."
from there team two wrote code that did it.
and since Compaq wouldn't license their bios to the "sewing machine" portable, Phoenix did the same thing, and licensed their BIOS to everybody.
award came along later, did the same thing, and eventually bought Phoenix.
that's how Big Blue's open PC spawned the new computer generation. since everybody could license the same MS-DOS for their clone box, the market did its work.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Interesting story...
One night after having dinner with a few friends, one of the group noted that she needed to stop by a Verizon store to get a new phone. Hers had been having troubles and she was eligible for a free upgrade (with two year contract extension, of course...)
We arrived at the Verizon store, and the representative pulled out a few different models from Motorola, LG, and Samsung for her to look at. I casually pulled my iPhone out of my pocket and sat it in the mix. The Verizon rep exclaimed "OH, is that an iPhone?!", grabbed it, and spent a few minutes playing with it. His breach of salesperson protocol must have snuck into his head, as his face changed to one of concern. He put it down, and started talking about how it doesn't have 3G like Verizon's smart phones, and how the lack of replaceable battery made every other phone on the table a much better choice.
I walked away with a grin on my face, knowing that even the Verizon rep was excited by a phone only available through another carrier.
Anyone buynig an iPhone now is just obsessed with gadgets and badly spendign practices. It's not all that, by far. If I wanted to watch video on a tiny screen I'd get a portable HD DVD player for 120 bucks and it would have a MUCH larger screen and much crisper picture. I just want a good phone really, maybe daily planner and preferable voice driven as much as possible. I really think voice driven gadgets are not being widely used. It's just a lack of innovation in how to use voice recogniation at this point.
.NET Leopard isn't going to sway developers, which is what Apple really needs to get most window users to switch.
.NET and moving office to the web. They are competing with their true rival, google. Google has the idea, create your own network and screw these communication monpolies because their profit models are outdated and don't scale. Google and MS are looknig at the global market Apple is still mostly looking at the US market and the short term use of PC's.
:P.
ANYWAY, how stupid is Apple. Talking about oh we exceeded our figures. WELL, not just imagine Apple execs what you might have done had you not locked yourself into one network, had not fought against unlockers, had opened up the iPhone from the start to third party software and hardware developers.
It's called FREE MARKET Apple, try it out sometime. And people really think Leopard is going to make some big splash. No way. Apple is the same company that made the Mac all those years ago, switch to BSD hasn't changed that at all and developers still aren't really embracing the platform to any major degree. In the wake of
Everytime a new OS comes out places like this hype it as the Windows killer, and time and time against it doesn't happen. Apple has 8% market share, that's not going to change overnight from one OS release. People aren't that hard up for an OS these days and in the future what OS you run will matter less and less. It's going to be more and more about having quality developers and key programs (like office suites). At this point an OS along will not make major market share change because that's not enough. Leopard isn't really going to do anything Tiger didn't do for 99% of users. It WILL be the best desktop OS for awhile, just a Tiger is the best right now, but that doesn't actually warrent jumping shop for most people.
I really see a media center as the next big thing and that's where Linux should be. The thrill of the internet will fade into a world where everything is networked and the PC is no longer the center of that network but rather just another appliance on it.
MS has is right going with
The iPhone was a good, but half hearted attempt to get some proprietaryness back into Apple, but in the end it's software that's really worth the money, owning API's owning formats. That's what makes a device worth money or just Linux
I wonder if MS's is pushing against Linux patents for a reason. So it can potentially use their kernel in a Win32/Linux hybrid. It realy would make the most sense and be cost effective AND in many ways it would kill Linux.
MS would have the one legal distro that supported everything and most people would use that. Just add activation and most customers won't even try to hack it. I know these days most users have legal copies of Windows and Office... just not in china.
No matter how the markets turns having something like DirectX and a large selection of games and programs which has been growing for decades really gives you the advantage. I'd happily pay money for Linux with DX support, of course, I'd also happily DL the cracked version. heh, but No OS can avoid that for now.
I tried using it to use the keypad to enter in text and it seemed an incredible pain hitting the right keyboard letter. Numbers were fine, but letters were too small and you often hit the wrong one. In addition, long URLs seem to be a pain to traverse in the browser to edit. I imagine if it had a blackberry's ease of use for typing (which would be hard given the design), and was free of AT&T contracts, it would sell in the hundreds of millions instead of the 1.4 million.
I would agree with this. AT&T as best as news reports and rumors confirm, has exclusivity on US market with iPhone for a few years. AT&T as far as other posts here and in previous threads indicate, have not been very customer service friendly. Exclusivity can *also* work to the benefit of customers? Why? Well, if AT&T doesn't fix is service problems and there is a threat (real or not) of not having exclusivity in the market of a really cool, counter-cultural, amazing, fabulous (yeah I'm marketing spinning here) phone that changes the industry around and makes AT&T a TON of money ... and AT&T can't fix their problems, then only thing exclusivity proved is that only the best provider deserves the phone anyways so market competition will solve this instantly.
Put another way, with Lock-in, AT&T should be able to dominate the iPhone market after lock-in isn't present. So it works to the Telecom's advantage and Apples' (guaranteed success). If it doesn't Apple can't wipe its hands clean. Wasn't its fault. But one company just paid a ton of money to advertise freely for Apple. It was AT&Ts fault. Then another company can walk in and take over.
Apple doesn't need carrier lock in for market penetration. Again, this is APPLE.....
TeeHee, Apple....Penetration....
They're all a bunch of gouging crooks! Here's hoping wireless keeps getting better....
I don't agree with the mentality of the cellphone market in general (or the domain name market), but, honestly, can you name another phone sold in the US that has the equivalent of a Desktop operating system, multi-touch screen, iTunes, memory card AND 4gb storage (I think it has a memory card), and internet access? Can you name a phone that actually displays webpages like the iPhone does--in which websites have their versions for iPhone compatibility?
I use Quicksilver, but I went a long time without it, as Spotlight does essentially the same thing for me (it just doesn't look as nice). I use iStatMenus because I have a Type A personality and I need to know how fast my fans are spinning. That is also the reason that I use GeekTool. That's about it for third-party add-ons for me. I went a long time without these, and I could do fine without them now. I pretty much installed them because I was bored.
I have expose functions mapped to my mouse, keyboard, and screen hot-corners (this takes 4 clicks to configure, if you include opening the preferences pane and actually clicking the option in the pull-down menu).
I have dashboard triggered by a hot-corner. BOOM! Weather, sticky notes, translators, calendar, iTunes control, calculator, dictionary (OED!): looked at or used, and gone instantly. I like dashboard now a lot more than I thought I would when I first installed 10.4.
I already mentioned Spotlight, which triggers by default with CMD-space, I think (I remapped it to make room for quicksilver).
Wow, this is really off-topic.
Anyways, back to my question: What OS has more 'expert' functionality than OS X? And I assume we're discussing the OS GUI here, not just programs. "OS X doesn't run Half Life" would be a lame response
And if anyone knows a program or theme that makes Ubuntu respond like OS X (a la expose), I'd be very interested.
-b
No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
Yeah, a VW Beattle (of the old ones) has also some minor shortcomings when compared to a Ferrari.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
> Apple knows how many iPhones have been sold and how many have been activated with ATT. The difference is the number that are unlocked.
Of course, that does not take into account the phones bought and not activated because they are for Xmas gifts etc..
Apple did a terific deal with AT&T - they reversed the model from "carrier pays for the phone and customer gets it free" to "customer pays the phone and phonemaker gets a cut from monthly revenue". This is extremely brilliant move (and what I have heard and this is pretty reliable source, the money Apple is getting from this deal could make them give iPhone for "free" with contracts and still make a profit, but because it sells for the set price they make even more money).
There was a demand for this kind of device and Apple did it's marketing good. Their next device will be a much tougher sell to carriers though if they can't somehow make ap a product which has the same kind of novelty value as the iPhone.
My guess is that this is a one-time deal for Apple and once their honeymoon is over they have to compete by the same rules everyone else does. But for a launch product and a product with such "coolness factor" and genuinely good features (I like the browser, it is indeed good, maybe even the best there is for that form factor but I dislike the phonebook and the "virtual keyboard") they did like a smart company must do - get the most out of it.
-k
> Apple knows how many iPhones have been sold
> and how many have been activated with ATT.
> The difference is the number that are unlocked.
Or, maybe some are just being used as iPods with wifi access. A lot of people claimed to be buying them for this reason... before Apple released the iPod Touch.
The DUMB thing with iPhone is not the lock in, many phones are sold on lockins, it's what makes them affordable (My boring, basic Nokia was locked in to the carrier that sold it to me - to have it as an unlocked phone would have cost me 4 times as much.) iPhone's truly dumb thing is the lockout of third party apps. By not allowing the user to choose when they run local apps and when they run remote apps creates a goldmine for AT&T.
"I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1