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The Real Mother of All Bombs, 46 Years Ago

vaporland writes "Tsar Bomba is the Western name for the RDS-220, the largest, most powerful weapon ever detonated. The bomb was tested on October 30, 1961, in an archipelago in the Arctic Sea. Developed by the Soviet Union, the bomb had a yield of about 50 megatons. Its detonation released energy equivalent to approximately 1% of the power output of the Sun for 39 nanoseconds of its detonation. The device was scaled down from its original design of 100 megatons to reduce the resulting nuclear fallout. The Tsar Bomba qualifies as the single most powerful device ever utilized throughout the history of humanity."

526 comments

  1. FR1ST PS0T by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    MOD PARENT DOWN!

  2. I respectfully disagree... by TobyRush · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Tsar Bomba qualifies as the single most powerful device ever utilized throughout the history of humanity.
    I don't know... my money's still on the pen.
    --
    Sam! If you will let me be,
    I will try them.
    You will see.
    1. Re:I respectfully disagree... by j-stroy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      "Your Mommma" qualifies as the single most powerful comedic device ever utilized throughout the history of humility.

    2. Re:I respectfully disagree... by niktemadur · · Score: 1

      Printing press?

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    3. Re:I respectfully disagree... by raphae · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know... my money's still on the pen.

      It was heartening to see such encouraging words after watching that horrific video which made me want to cry just thinking about how profanely humans have abused this ancient, loving Earth we have inherited.

      I also believe "The pen is mightier than the sword" and that, indeed, one day righteousnes, wisdom, and courage will prevail over ignorance, fear, and greed.
    4. Re:I respectfully disagree... by JonathanR · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah. Think of all those forests laid waste to accommodate your bloody writing implement.

    5. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      alright - i'll take the nuke & you take the pen. we'll see who wins.

    6. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Entropius · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oppenheimer et al. wouldn't have worked out how to make a nuke if they didn't have pens.

    7. Re:I respectfully disagree... by KDR_11k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The pen is mightier than the sword: Often propaganda will work better than overt force. Shackle a man's hands and he will try to break free, shackle his mind and he will never consider it.

      This is the reason I consider false or sensationalist news more dangerous to the wellbeing of society than terrorism.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    8. Re:I respectfully disagree... by smilindog2000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I just finished reading "A Brief History of Rome" (free e-book from gutenberg.org). Throughout, the 19th-century author kept referring to "Barbarians" and "Civilization". I eventually figured out that the difference was literacy (the pen). The Romans inflicted both the pen, and Christianity on the world. The author seemed to think both were true gifts, but I noticed that the downfall of Rome started in earnest with Constantine, who converted them empire's faith, and that the dark-ages followed shortly after. Coincidence? I doubt it. Wikipedia has a great article on it. Just my own two-cents, but a corrupt society built on slavery and the spoils of war needed the old religion and an all-powerful emperor to survive. So... which is more powerful, the pen, or religion?

      --
      Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
    9. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Bearhouse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Then perhaps it's a shame they did...

    10. Re:I respectfully disagree... by deglr6328 · · Score: 1

      You will find, if you go back through the history, that sentance was written by me on 4/22/06. I of course meant it in the literal, physical energy related sense rather than in any metaphorical sense. However, if one considers the situation for a moment, I believe that it may also be argued to be true in the metaphorical sense as well. Everyone agrees that nuclear weapons are the most heinous, disgusting, inhuman devices ever created, but it would be laughable folly to blame the scientists who created them. We are the ones who pushed the scientists to create more and more of them, and they do serve a purpose wheather they're detonated or not. We now have the capability to destroy ourselves, possibly utterly, if we so choose. The previous ~200,000 years of human history on the planet, and our collecitve 'waking up' to our place in the universe (an occurrence solely facilitated by the plodding application of science) have been in a sense, preparation for this current phase of our existance. Nuclear weaponry is an inevitability of our current level of understanding of nature and our simultaneous ignorance and stupidity regarding our own prehistoric bellicosity. Welcome to the final exam.....

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
    11. Re:I respectfully disagree... by gijoel · · Score: 1

      ... And in breaking news, the President has announce that he inconvertible proof that Iran is trying to supply Al Queda with pens.

    12. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Propaganda13 · · Score: 1

      Neither is mightier, just different tools for different situations which can be used together for greater effect.

      Shackle a man's hands and shoot him in the head and he won't try to break free either then use propaganda to state that the man was a child molester.

    13. Re:I respectfully disagree... by DarkShadeChaos · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're selling Penis Mightier? ... you're sitting on a goldmine Trebek!

      --
      The machine unmakes the man. Now that the machine is so perfect, the engineer is nobody. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
    14. Re:I respectfully disagree... by mike2R · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Just to point out that if you read a modern study of the fall of the Empire in the west you will find a very different set of explanations. Why the Empire fell is one of the "big questions" for historians and current answers don't bare much resemblance to those of the nineteenth century.

      When I was a history undergraduate, I remember one of my lecturers saying he thought it was a question that frequently said more about the writer than anything else; eg in the immediate post-war period historians concentrated on the external military pressures of the "barbarians" (it's a Roman word). Later historians turned more to ideas of internal factors such as the increased tax burden on local elites and the Empire allowing barbarian auxiliaries to settle within the empire's borders under their own leaders.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    15. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's naive to think in terms of winning and losing when the subject is atomic bombs, didn't the cold war teach you anything? Even if you had an a-bomb I seriously doubt you'd have the stones to use it, especially against a single man. But if you insist - If you had the bomb and I had the pen, then I'd buy a house next to your parents and start writing books about how much you suck.

      I win.

    16. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      Ideas.

      You'll find that ideas like life after death or nationhood allow you to persuade people to sacrifice their lives for such mundane things as corporate profit. The idea that the enemy are animals, barely human allows you to persuade people to butcher them.

      Then there are ideas like people are born free and equal which created a great liberal society.

      Essentially, propaganda is by far the most powerful force. This is what's meant by the pen, though, a writing implement isn't required and has since been superseded by the Internet, which is perhaps why it's the single most significant invention created by humans so far.

      --
      Deleted
    17. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It was heartening to see such encouraging words after watching that horrific video which made me want to cry just thinking about how profanely humans have abused this ancient, loving Earth we have inherited. Ancient, loving Earth that we have inherited? Are you kidding me? You could argue the first point, but the last two are absurd. There is no Gaia, and the Earth does not have a soul. The Earth is only a very big rock with a layer of pond scum on it. It doesn't love you any more than your pet rock does. And we haven't inherited the Earth any more than the pond scum have inherited a rock they happen to be clinging to.

      Enough with this stupid Gaia superstition and quasi-religion! The planet Earth does not care whether you exist or not. It will not protect you. And it is not holy. It is just a rock. The real loss if we hurt the environment of this planet is not some spiritual entity. It is the potential loss of knowledge for us humans. But once that level of knowledge is reasonably complete and humans can survive without the Earth, this planet will only have sentimental value and it will not matter whether we mine it to the core or use it as a testbed for nuclear weapons.
    18. Re:I respectfully disagree... by AVee · · Score: 2, Funny

      So... which is more powerful, the pen, or religion? Well, there are some known cases of religious organisations are spreading pens...
    19. Re:I respectfully disagree... by kongit · · Score: 0

      I dunno, I prefer to use up dead animal and plant matter to power my computer on which I can type. Perhaps the keyboard is now mightier then the pen.

    20. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Mr2cents · · Score: 5, Funny

      alright - i'll take the nuke & you take the pen. we'll see who wins. I suspect that you'll see the flaw in your plan by the time I'm banging your head against the wall to see if I can get that pen any further up your nose..
      --
      "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
    21. Re:I respectfully disagree... by jotok · · Score: 1

      The Fall of the Roman Empire and the subsequent dark ages had a lot more to do with secular forces than with what you call "the old religion," (the old NEW religion?)and it was the monks who preserved the received learning to hand off to the thinkers of the Enlightenment.

      And...corrupt society? The Romans were no better or worse than any other society on earth before or since; it's not a great metric for figuring out why they "fell."

    22. Re:I respectfully disagree... by brown-eyed+slug · · Score: 1

      A pen is often a convenient tool with which to poke your nemesis in the eye. A sword may be mightier in this case, but sometimes less is more.

    23. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Yetihehe · · Score: 5, Funny

      I also believe "The pen is mightier than the sword"
      Obligatory quote from Terry Pratchett: *Only when sword is very dull and pen is very sharp.
      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    24. Re:I respectfully disagree... by kamapuaa · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Rome pre-Christianity was not unified by a single religion, it was a melange of different religions. And Rome was more of a "spoils of war" based society when it was a Republic, not when it was led by an all-powerful emperor - at least after AD 100 or so. If you say it's all-powerful - all the constant assassinations showed that emperors had a check on their power from angry mobs and the military, whereas despotic Chinese leaders could rule with relative impunity for long stretches of the Chinese Empire.

      The idea that the fall of the Roman Empire started with Constantine is completely ludicrous and obviously is more influenced by your anti-Christian beliefs than an honest view of history. He expanded the empire, consistently beat back Germanic tribes, and led to the empire's split into halves, with the Eastern half lasting a thousand years longer.

      Writing = civilization? While there's an obvious correlation, not quite. All the Germanic tribes by the fall of Rome had adopted scripts of their own. Anyway the judgment obviously had a lot more to do with 19th century ethos than anything else.

      Christianity was employed against the enemy - Rome pursued a policy of converting Germanic tribes to a Rome-centered Christianity, to make them more dependent towards Rome. So in that sense, Christianity probably prolonged the empire.

      It seems you read history books for the sole purpose of re-enforcing your own prejudices, and don't actually absorb any of it. Why do you even bother reading?

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    25. Re:I respectfully disagree... by somersault · · Score: 1

      ancient, loving Earth

      Were you high when you wrote that? The earth is hardly a 'loving' place, it's dog eat dog out there :P Darn hippies!
      --
      which is totally what she said
    26. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 1

      "So... which is more powerful, the pen, or religion?"

      Both are worthless without money. Those with the cash, make the rules, pay the pens, fix the religions.

      --
      There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    27. Re:I respectfully disagree... by jamstar7 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "The other guys" were trying to develope their own bomb. The United States just got there first.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    28. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Nazlfrag · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is it really that hard to grasp that the Gaia concept is a metaphor for our incredibly complex and precious biosphere. It bloody well is holy because this rock is our symbiote, our petri dish. Fuck it up and we're toast. So yeah, anthropomorphising the planet makes perfect sense. Sentimental value my arse, if we keep poisoning and harvesting the planet to extinction life as we know it will cease to exist. Mining it to the core or testing nuclear weapons is literally killing the planets lifeforce. The only stupidity is your ignorance in thinking humanity can survive outside of the fertile lifestream that birthed it.

    29. Re:I respectfully disagree... by RudyHartmann · · Score: 1

      I could not have said it better myself. The pursuit of truth will get you much further than supporting a bias derived hypothesis. It is better to find the facts then create a hypothesis. Creating a hypothesis then collecting arguments to support it is a technique for creating propaganda.

      --
      Oh, yeah! Wise guy, huh? Woob woob woob woob! Nyuk! Nyuk!
    30. Re:I respectfully disagree... by baldass_newbie · · Score: 1

      It's a witch!

      --
      The opposite of progress is congress
    31. Re:I respectfully disagree... by phaunt · · Score: 4, Informative

      [...] the external military pressures of the "barbarians" (it's a Roman word). Actually, it's a Greek word: people whose speech goes like "bar bar" and can't be understood.
    32. Re:I respectfully disagree... by JustOK · · Score: 2, Funny

      No no, its a term for people who follow BarBar.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    33. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean defeated Germany? Japan had no chance to get the bomb before being defeated.

    34. Re:I respectfully disagree... by maxume · · Score: 1

      I like the theory that the conversion more or less pissed off the outlying regions(who had accepted military dominance up to that point), making them unwilling to follow the policies of Rome and creating all sorts of internal problems, distracting them from defense.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    35. Re:I respectfully disagree... by oliderid · · Score: 1

      Here what I remind from my history class:

      The beginning Emperor worshiped as God:

      For centuries the old Romans religions was declining. Various sects referring to old Egyptians/Phoenician Gods were quite popular amongst the Roman's Elites when August became emperor. As usual he tried to use religion as a power tool. He settled statues of him in all major cities of the Roman Empire. He tried to be worshiped as a God.

      His strategy worked and even after his death his image was still worshiped by Romans. But again...After years and years, most people get bored of worshipping the successive emperors. Constantine was a general in charge of the northern borders if I remind well. At that time Rome was totally chaotic. Different Generals were trying to get the throne.

      Constantine as a general:
      Constantine was a very pragmatic leader and admired by his troops. His soldiers were poor and uneducated people. On his way to Rome to take the throne, he tried to get as much allies as possible. Christians were part of it. They were well organized, used to undercover activities due to the crimes they have endured for centuries. Constantine knew that a lot of his soldiers were christians.

      Before a great battle that I don't remind, he forced his troops to draw on their shield a christian symbol. The goal was to give them strength, to make them feel like they are protected by a powerful God. It works and he won the battle.

      Christianity became the official religion
      Then as an Emperor, he tried to promote Christianity in Rome. The old pagan city was more difficult to convince. he moved the capital to a new capital "Constantinople". The council of Nicea followed and Christianity became the official religion of the Empire.

    36. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a fucking idiot. Everyone doesn't agree that nuclear weapons are the most blah blah awful thing ever made--I don't agree. There are plenty of worse devices. Frankly, a device which essentially ended imperialism forever isn't exactly heinous in my book. And generally most forms of chemical and biological warfare agents are much more blah blah awful than a nuclear bomb.

      Not to mention you fucking hippie we always have had the ability to destroy ourselves, utterly, as individuals and as a species. It's something most geeks are intimately aware of actually: all you gotta do to end it all is quit fucking fucking. Kay, kay, hugaraibowman?

    37. Re:I respectfully disagree... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Considering religious writings and rituals were some of the first things written (after wealthy peoples inventories) I think it is safe to say religion is the pen.

      In fact isn't a large portion of the new testament letters? One would then assume that Christianity was spread by the pen (unless you are arguing that it was spread directly by God).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    38. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      The idea that the enemy are animals, barely human allows you to persuade people to butcher them.

      One of the more common uses of media in fact... In WW2 we had 'Hun', 'Nazis' these days we have 'Insurgents', 'Terrorists'.
      We do the opposite too - when one of 'our' people dies in battle we have a 10 minute biopic on his grieving family, just to highlight the difference.

    39. Re:I respectfully disagree... by sammy+baby · · Score: 1

      Both are worthless without money. Those with the cash, make the rules, pay the pens, fix the religions.


      True. It also rules everything around me.

    40. Re:I respectfully disagree... by smilindog2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I basically agree. An uncensored Internet has to be the greatest gift to mankind during my lifetime to date, if not all of history. The battle for freedom of speech, and thus free people, will be waged here, in the form of censorship. Too bad Google and others actively support censorship.

      --
      Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
    41. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Mostly it was word of mouth (as was common in the ancient world) - I've not heard anyone suggest that the letters were written the day the events happened - most accept that the first gospel (Mark) was written down somewhere between 50CE and 75CE.

    42. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I took the parent as taking issue with the 'loving' part than with the anthropomorphic tone of the OP.

      My favorite 'mother earth' quote, from someone who was out in it quite a bit:

      "...nature is a stern, hard, immovable and terrible in her unrelenting cruelty. When wintry winds are out and the mercury far below zero she will allow her most ardent lover to freeze to her snowy breast without waving a single leaf in pity, or offering him a match; and scores of her devotees may starve to death in as many languages before she will offer a loaf of bread."

      That from Nessmuk.

      I'm from the Aldo Leopold school of conservation, I don't want to poison the air and water and cut down all the trees. But I also know, from various somewhat narrow escapes, that regardless of the cartoon face stuck on nature, it wants to crunch up my bones and return them to the soil and only by my wits or by erecting technological barriers do I keep that from happening.

      Entropy and all that. Nature is a big promoter of entropy.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    43. Re:I respectfully disagree... by mike2R · · Score: 1

      The idea that the fall of the Roman Empire started with Constantine is completely ludicrous and obviously is more influenced by your anti-Christian beliefs than an honest view of history.

      That's a little harsh given he said he was getting his info from a nineteenth century work, which would have put forward that theory due to Gibbon's influence.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    44. Re:I respectfully disagree... by jargon82 · · Score: 1

      don't forget, pens have often been used to close multimillion dollar deals, too! Not just to sign them, either. "You know, HP gave me a much better pen than you guys, Dell. I think I'm going to have to go with them."

    45. Re:I respectfully disagree... by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My favorite pen-sword retort:
      "just because 'the pen is mightier than the sword', that doesn't mean you can win a sword fight with a pen."

      --
      stuff |
    46. Re:I respectfully disagree... by rucs_hack · · Score: 3, Funny

      The Aqueducts?

    47. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know... my money's still on the pen. It was heartening to see such encouraging words after watching that horrific video which made me want to cry just thinking about how profanely humans have abused this ancient, loving Earth we have inherited.

      I also believe "The pen is mightier than the sword" and that, indeed, one day righteousnes, wisdom, and courage will prevail over ignorance, fear, and greed. Oh for God's sake. If you want to survive as a civilisation you need both happy civilised artists and big motherfucking bombs. And you need people who are willing to use those bombs too if there is no alternative like the US and UK did in WWII. Otherwise predatory neighbouring civilisations which have bombs but no artists will take over, enslave all the artists and that will be the end of things.

      It happened to Athens, and it happened to most of the European democracies in WWII. There are probably lots of examples of civilisation that were culturally quite good that got completely eradicated my their militaristic but philistine neighbours.

      Even if your neighbours seem peaceful there's always a risk that their economies may collapse and some Hitler like politician may decide to revive them by deficit spending on a huge military machine. If they do that they pretty much have to use it for armed 'hostile takeovers' of their more peaceful neighbours before the deficit spending causes their economy to collapse.

      And it's hard to imagine many decent books being produced in the sort of empire someone like that would build.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    48. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      There are a lot of explainations. A couple more are the elite kept getting more and more lead poisoned and eventually couldn't reproduce. Overfarming some areas caused erosion that silted & clogged great harbors - and gave more breeding ground to malaria.

    49. Re:I respectfully disagree... by sigzero · · Score: 0

      Did you read that article? Most of those do not credit Christianity with helping the fall.

    50. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Bozdune · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There was also a recent theory that it was plain old malaria that did them in, attacking from Africa through Sicily and finally arriving with a vengeance on the coastal plains and marshes. The death rate was horrific, and general panic ensued, since the disease vector was mysterious. Barbarian raiders supposedly reported "no resistance" when landing at previously well-defended port cities.

      You seem to know what you're talking about -- any merit to the above?

    51. Re:I respectfully disagree... by canistel · · Score: 1

      Please, can you keep the difference clear between the Roman Catholics and Christians? They are not the same. The Romans did not "inflict Christianity on the world"; the Pope is far from Christian.

    52. Re:I respectfully disagree... by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      Which is why I'm starting a campaign against entropy.

      Please buy a souvenir here. All proceeds go to fighting entropy. For as little as a dollar a day, you to can help prevent thermal death

    53. Re:I respectfully disagree... by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      I believe the GP is referring to the Epistles, which (a) do make up the bulk of the NT, and (b) don't involve events, but rather mostly describe how members of the early Christian community were to live.

      There is a legitimate argument to be made that Christianity isn't Christ's religion, but rather Paul's. Paul certainly spread his influence by sending letters to the far reaches of the empire.

    54. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Satorian · · Score: 1

      "It doesn't love you any more than your pet rock does."


      Pet rock? Who needs the love of a pet rock when you've got a Weighted Companion Cube?!
    55. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Atzanteol · · Score: 5, Funny
      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    56. Re:I respectfully disagree... by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Eh? It's not so much the forests (the wood pulp for paper tends to come from quick growing farmed trees) but the streams and rivers that suffer from paper production, both from the paper production process and from the fertilizers used in the tree farms.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    57. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey, the pen might be mightier than the sword, but the bomba wins all. If you are the ONLY country with a nuke, nobody is going to mess with you.

    58. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was going to agree, but then I saw that gosh-darn sunset again and have to cry now. It's so beautiful!

    59. Re:I respectfully disagree... by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was an MIT undergrad when Ronald Reagan came into office. The Reagan administration was a boon to certain types of research, and a bust for others. There was an enormous shift in emphasis towards research that could be weaponized.

      I remember a scientist who joined the project I was working on. He had headed a small lab elsewhere at MIT as a principal investigator, but he signed on to our project as an engineer because research money had dried up. He brought with him this odd stainless steel apparatus that looked like a mutated, high tech water main. We were using it as small vacuum tank. I asked him what the thing was built to do, and he told me that it was a new kind of electron microscope he had invented that could make images showing the distribution of the different kinds of atomic nuclei in the thing being imaged.

      "Wow, that's very interesting," I said.

      "It is," he replied, "but it was funded on an ONR grant, and they're not funding that kind of research any more. Back in the old days," he went on, "I'd have told them it was a death ray. It's all those damned ROTC engineering grads," he sighed. "About the only way you could kill somebody with this is to drop it on him from a high place. Those guys aren't physicists, but they know a death ray when they see one. All they want to talk about is deaths per dollar."

      The deaths per dollar metric fascinated me. Later I brought it up with some of my friends back at the dorm, and we kicked around the question of how various methods of manslaughter stacked up. The idea of blowing up the famous "Corita" LNG tanks near Boston was popular, until we fetched some Chem E majors who told us about the eight hundred reasons that you couldn't kill more than a handful of people that way.

      Finally, I hit upon an unbeatable method when it comes to deaths per dollar. Go to a construction site, and root through the dumpster until you get a nice section of 2x4 about five feet long. Then walk down the street and beat everybody you meet to death with it.

      "But," they protested, "that's assuming that your time is free."

      "This is a government project," I replied. "To a first approximation staff time is free. We just take all the resources not engaged in productive activity -- that is producing deaths -- and treat them as slack."

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    60. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Atzanteol · · Score: 1

      Is it really that hard to grasp that the Gaia concept is a metaphor for our incredibly complex and precious biosphere.

      Yes. Just as difficult as it is to accept the idea of a magical invisible man who knows everything.

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    61. Re:I respectfully disagree... by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

      From what I've read, Edward Gibbon in the 18th century took the same view. But I would agree with the previous comment that these theories tell you a lot about the person making the theory.

      I don't think taking care of the poor and orphans and people dying in plagues was a negative influence for Rome. I'm not sure how official, state-sanctioned Christianity would hurt Rome, any more than the previous emperor cult. Furthermore, Rome was already in decline by the time Constantine was around.

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    62. Re:I respectfully disagree... by dpilot · · Score: 1

      I thought it was "Babar", not "BarBar".

      I remember watching some of the cartoons with my kids years ago, thinking about how politically incorrect they'd become. Babar is taken to civilization and is subsequently "taken" by it. Upon return to the jungle he begins "civilizing" it, in the process bringing environmental devastation and warfare. Parading the opposing rhinoceros leader through town in a cage was just a bit over the top.

      Seeing a cartoon made in a different era in the overly politically correct 90's is an interesting contrast in extremes, made all the more fun by it's all being so French in origin.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    63. Re:I respectfully disagree... by mfnickster · · Score: 1

      "Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet.

      "And also, you're drunk."

        - Jack Handey

      --
      "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
    64. Re:I respectfully disagree... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Most of the letters were written after the fact explaining things. The letters were a way to spread dogma from one church to another and maintain a consistency of beliefs (that was achieved to some degree around 400CE and maintained until the splits started to happen)

      The early beliefs were certainly oral tradition with many stuff being another 50 to 100 years after Mark when put to paper. But it was this putting to paper that allowed Christianity to become one religion (to a point) rather than Gnostics, What We Haves, Jews With an Extra Book (closer than we have now to Jews and could have been a continuation of Judaism), and others. It was the writings that allowed an ¨official¨ Christianity to happen and spread as a unifying force that rather than a mess of personal religions that the Romans (and pretty much all non-Jews) had at the time.

      The importance of writing to Christianity can be observed by the fact that they quickly as they became established began to focus on scribing.

      There are definitely parts of the new testament that are written down oral tradition, but the Romans had that too, what Christianity also has that allowed it to spread culturally within a society is written dogma that was spread by letters. This made sure the Greek Christians had the same beliefs and practices as the Roman Christians and quickly brought everyone into line. A strong written dogma is also most likely required for longevity of a religion (see Judaism vs the Parthenon).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    65. Re:I respectfully disagree... by AbbyNormal · · Score: 5, Funny

      True, but if Tsar Bomba makes a man's country turn into glass, I think we could notch that as a win for the bomb.

      --
      Sig it.
    66. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Chas · · Score: 1

      True, but at a literal level, if you have a pen and I have a sword, I can kill you, then take your pen. At that point, I'm double-mighty. Propaganda being the velvet glove around an iron fist (the sword).

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    67. Re:I respectfully disagree... by mike2R · · Score: 1

      I was a pretty mediocre undergraduate student about ten years ago, so don't put too much store in this, and I've never heard that theory.

      It doesn't really fit with the explanation that made the best sense to me - which really means that it was the view my lecturer inclined towards.

      The fall of the empire in the west was a long event, not barbarian invaders overrunning the empire so much as the central authority withering on the vine. You can trace this to the reforms made by Diocletian which brought the empire out of the "third century crisis" - there's debate about how well the word crisis describes this period but anyway, there had been a time of multiple Emperors fighting for control, the silver currency had collapsed due to repeated debasement and the Empire was effectively a barter economy.

      In the early Empire, there had always been massive incentives for local elites to stay with Rome - they got titles, authority and Rome didn't mess with how they governed their regions. After Diocletian they got hit with more and more demands in exchange for less and less benefits. A later emperor allowed barbarian auxilleries to serve and settle (land in the empire was a standard reward) under their own commanders. Effectively this created new power structures on a local level, while the old imperial structures were generally detested by the local elites. Barbarian warlords replaced the Emperor's agents as the power on the ground, and the empire in the west died with a wimper over several decades.

      How well I've remembered this, how well I understood it to start with, and how it chimes with current historical thought on the issue I don't know, but it suggests to me that even a massive malaria outbreak would be peripheral (perhaps leading to the Empire being forced to rely more on barbarian mercenaries, which was certainly a feature of the latter years in the west).

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    68. Re:I respectfully disagree... by mike2R · · Score: 1

      Something I should have put in my previous post: if you're interested in the period I'd strongly recommend reading the major primary source for the late roman empire - Ammianus Marcellinus's Res Gestae. You can probably find a free translation online somewhere, although a good modern annotated edition is well worth it.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    69. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "lifeforce?" "lifestream?" Are you just making up words? Of COURSE we could survive outside this planet, given sufficient technology. All we theoretically need to survive is neutrons, protons, electrons, and energy. With that those four things and enough knowledge, we could build anything we need.

      The GP is right. We aren't there yet, but we will be if we don't kill ourselves first. The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one can not eternally live in a cradle.

      The analogies about nuclear explosions "raping" the Earth are quite stupid and misinformed. There is a lot of life at the sites of former nuclear explosions. Think with your head, not with your emotions.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    70. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Might wanna worry more about the Big Rip. Yes, we're all going to die.... in 50 billion years.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    71. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Enrique1218 · · Score: 1

      Not really. We are only killing ourselves. The earth and life have survived far worse catastrophic events. Massive freezing, massive volcanism, and massive meteors have all taken their shots. Yet, the Earth and life is still here and it will survive the catastrophe that is man. I suggest you watch How the Earth was Made.

      --
      You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
    72. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just as difficult as it is to accept the idea of a magical invisible man who knows everything.

      His name is Albus Dumbledore.

      *duck*

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    73. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forests laid to waste? That would be the pencil, not the pen.

    74. Re:I respectfully disagree... by sw155kn1f3 · · Score: 1

      Terry Pratchett never stops to amuse me ;) thans for the citation

      --
      - Arwen, I'm your father, Agent Smith.
      - Well, you're just Smith, but my father is Aerosmith!
    75. Re:I respectfully disagree... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      question is, would every other nation band together to stop that from ever happening again?

      more often then not war happens because or resources. turning the land into glass do not exactly give one access to those resources.

      hell, if economics is mixed in, even people are a resource...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    76. Re:I respectfully disagree... by smilindog2000 · · Score: 1

      I apologize for saying "The Romans inflicted both the pen, and Christianity on the world." As an excuse, I can only say I'm sick, and couldn't sleep (thus the 3AM post). I should have said "The Romans spread both the pen, and Christianity to the world". The word "inflicted" implied that it was a bad thing, and obviously, the pen was a good thing, and I sincerely do not mean to imply that spreading Christianity was a bad thing. I also do not mean to imply that Christianity caused the downfall of the Roman Empire. Another poster stated that Constantine used Christianity to help hold the empire together for a while longer, which sounds about right to me. Thus, it would not be a coincidence that Christianity was adopted near the end of the empire in the west, but Christianity didn't cause the downfall.

      For a change, I agree with the moderator who labeled my post Flamebait. Again, sorry.

      As for writing... the book I read used "barbarian" to describe Germans early in the book, but after they had "adopted civilization" he refers to them as "Germans". I'm not saying writing == civilization, but it certainly helps, and it seems to be the way the writer used the term.

      --
      Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
    77. Re:I respectfully disagree... by nsayer · · Score: 1

      In fairness, [...] the IOE [was] largely because of CO2 emissions in the First World WTF?!

      Global warming is being blamed for everything anymore! Now you're blaming it for an earthquake?

      I'd love to hear the explanation behind that one.

    78. Re:I respectfully disagree... by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Mine is on soap. Probably saved more lives than all the medical treatments known to man.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    79. Re:I respectfully disagree... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      My parents bought some cartoons from the 50's or 60's for my kids.
      My wife was watching them and their was a scene where some characters were in a movie theater and they cut to what she thought was a gorilla sitting in the theater (hmmm). Only after the baby "gorilla" ate a big slice of watermelon and started spitting seeds did she realize that the "gorilla" was an insensitive representation of a black person.

    80. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 1
      its like any other analogy - apt in certain senses, but not in others. Like any other analogy it makes the basic premise easier to comprehend, but ultimately it has to be dropped and a more direct and accurate understanding is the only way to make appropriate decisions about the best courses of action. It becomes superstition when people lose sight of the fact that "mother" nature is an analogy and they behave as if the earth cares about them. That's just unrealistic and the analogy has been stretched too far, leaving us open to poor decisions.

      The only stupidity is your ignorance in thinking humanity can survive outside of the fertile lifestream that birthed it.

      Well that's just the argument from personal incredulity. How do you know that given sufficient technological advancement we couldn't survive without the earth? It seems a perfectly reasonable assumption to me. How is he ignorant for imagining this possibility?

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    81. Re:I respectfully disagree... by dave1791 · · Score: 1

      Wars also happen because populations just plain hate each other. Often this has something to do with their respective superstitions.

      If you just plain hate the shia/kurds/sunnis/americans/jews/chinese/japanese/etc./etc. the sheer pleasure of turning their country to glass may be its own reward.

    82. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Danathar · · Score: 1

      You are also not taking into account that if you try and attack me with a 2by4 I'm going to VIGOROUSLY defend myself.

    83. Re:I respectfully disagree... by g0dsp33d · · Score: 1

      I don't think it is even the biggest bomb. That would probably be Vista, judging by sales and how often it makes my computer explode.

      Yes, I realize the joke is on me for having Vista.

      --
      lol: You see no door there!
    84. Re:I respectfully disagree... by hitmark · · Score: 2, Insightful

      hate comes from all kinds of reasons, but they never show up out of the blue.

      more often then not its because its because one side is seen to have a unfair advantage of some kind. or that they but in on topics that they have no reason to. or maybe they claimed, unfairly or unreasonably, resources, including land.

      hate never shows up for no reason. find that reason, and understanding why things happen like they do become much clearer.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    85. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      Yes, but once we turn all that rock into Computronium, then she will love us!

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    86. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no Gaia, and the Earth does not have a soul. The earth is as likely to have a soul as you are.
    87. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Bellum+Aeternus · · Score: 1

      Nature wants you dead. It doesn't love you, it wants to eat you - either your meat, or your rotting flesh as fertilizer. The issue for most people is that we usually kill what threatens us, but in the case of nature if we kill it we die too. Damn nasty catch 22 we've been stuck in.

      Damage to the environment is damage to us. We're only killing ourselves. It's amazingly egotistical of mankind to assume that we have the ability to end life on Earth. We don't, but sure do have the ability to make the environment hostile to life as we know it; including us.

      --
      - I voted for Nintendo and against Bush
    88. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the French were formerly huge fans of colonialism. It was only when they lost their colonies that they decided that bringing 'civilization' via direct rule over a foreign people was a bad thing.

    89. Re:I respectfully disagree... by wattrlz · · Score: 1

      The sewer.

    90. Re:I respectfully disagree... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1
      I'll skip over the 'OMG buy carbon credits to stop the earthquakes!' thing you have going on there, and instead laugh at you about your remark about incandescent light bulbs instead.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Do you realize the environmental impact that a wholesale switch to compact flourescent bulbs would have when those things start hitting the landfills? You think we have a problem with mercury in the groundwater now... just wait for THAT.

      According to the EPA, CFLs contain an average of 5 milligrams of mercury, which increases the bulb's efficiency. But that also means you can't just trash them--CFLs must be properly recycled. Visit Energy Star or Earth 911 for disposal instructions.
      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    91. Re:I respectfully disagree... by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Strategy, as always, is a force multiplier. If you aren't expecting it, you are unlikely to mount a credible defense. If you look like you are expecting me to conk you on the head, I don't oblige you by doing that. Instead I walk a bit farther down the street until I get an unsuspecting victim. I don't end up killing many people, but I do it cheaply.

      Really that points out the problem with the deaths per dollar metric, it doesn't take into account the fact you want to kill lots and lots of people quickly. It should really be something like log(deaths achievable in one day)/dollar. We should then use a nominal labor cost of, say, minimum wage, and compare the strategy of hiring various sized gangs of thugs with surplus 2x4s versus dropping the bomb as effective ways to kill people in any particular situation.

      My guess is that under such a more robust metric, nukes would appear more cost effective.

      However even that metric really isn't very good, because really you want to ask how many deaths you need to effect in order to achieve your goal, which is probably political in nature rather than wholesale death per se.

      In that case, you really can't do better than an occasional suicide bomber with a nail filled explosive vest. On the scale of cost and complexity, this is much closer to the surplus 2x4 approach than the nuclear approach, but you get a response that is closer to a nuke scale response. You don't have to kill that any people, you just have to do it visibly and unpredictably. This is especially effective if you can provoke your enemy into expensive and strategically counterproductive responses.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    92. Re:I respectfully disagree... by smilindog2000 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      The Romans were no better or worse than any other society on earth before or since

      IMO, they had several strikes against them. Before the emperors, Rome became addicted to the spoils of war - partly in the form of slaves, who did most of the manual labor. Common people could not compete, and sold off their land, creating a huge poor class in Rome. The nobles in the Senate eventually became so corrupt that they were incapable of ruling. A famous quote about Rome shortly before Julius Caesar: "A city for sale, and doomed if it finds a buyer" - Jugurtha of Numidia, after a vote buying trip to Rome. Caesar basically had no choice but to convert the Roman Republic into an Empire controlled by an Emperor... Rome was too corrupt to rule itself any longer. According to the book, the nobles in Rome also studied little of Greek literature, but adopted all of Greek's vices. For example, there were actual professional "Orgy Planners" in Rome, yet philosophers where generally disdained.

      I'm basically not a social relativist... I think the Golden Rule basically means that the slavery and gladiators of Rome were a bad thing, as was the easily bribed politicians, and the upper-class who lived off of others, doing little or no work of their own. In contrast, here in America, the vast majority of us work quite hard, try to live with integrity, and have adopted few vices. The majority of rich Americans made their own money. Our government could be better, but it's still a government of and by the people. The early history of Rome showed that government of and by the people was a more enduring form than kingdoms, which can be destroyed with one bad ruler. Rome conquered many kingdoms while it grew, but the spoils of war became addicting, and the transition from war-for-protection to war-for-plunder seems to be an underlying cause for the corruption of Rome. The corruption of Rome seems to have led to the need for an Emperor. The conversion to an empire controlled by a single person naturally made it less enduring, and several terrible emperors hastened the downfall.
      --
      Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
    93. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the reason I consider false or sensationalist news more dangerous to the wellbeing of society than terrorism Sensationalist news and other generally bad behaviour are the essential part of well working society where pressures of modern life is exhausted through the mentioned valves. Nobody in their right mind would believe this infotaiment as the truth of anything. When you have rules and regulations in the level of fascist dictatorship, you need to maintain social stability by other means.
    94. Re:I respectfully disagree... by SSCGWLB · · Score: 1

      You need to see a therapist.

    95. Re:I respectfully disagree... by DrBoumBoum · · Score: 1

      Never hit someone with glasses. Hit him with a baseball bat.

    96. Re:I respectfully disagree... by dryeo · · Score: 1

      What about all the people that have been put in jail, given criminal records etc to protect the pulp paper industry from the evil hemp paper

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    97. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Artifakt · · Score: 3, Informative

      Japan was actually getting serious about the possibility of a fission bomb, Germany wasn't. Some historians think it was because Germany's racial doctrine was so aggressively disparaging of 'Jewish' physics, and so their research and funding ended up being steered in other directions. Japan had physicists who weren't afraid to use Einstein's or other Jewish physicists work in their own papers.

      In September 1940, the Japanese Army controlled Institute of Physical and Chemical Research, or Rikken, was assigned a preliminary project. In 1942, the Japanese Navy began also (somewhat independently of the Army) working on a Uranium based fission device. The project was called F-Go {or sometimes just No. F, for fission]. This was located at Kyoto, and was actually the chief reason why Kyoto was added to the list of potential military targets for the U.S. bombs, although in the end the city was still taken off the list by Truman due to its historic and social value. Despite a certain military commitment these programs weren't backed with adequate resources, and the Japanese were probably still four or more years from having a bomb by the end of the war.

            A Japanese plant, concealed in Hungnam, now part of North Korea, may have been the source of heavy water subsequently used by the USSR for its own bomb research. There are reports the Soviet Union continued to run that plant and collected the output every other month by submarine, and it alone may have shaved a year or more off the USSR's development time.

            In May 1945, a German submarine which surrendered to US forces , was found to be carrying over 500 kg. of Uranium oxide destined for Japan. The oxide contained about 3.5 kilograms of isotope U-235. While not enough to make a bomb, that was a sizable fraction of one. After the Japanese surrender, the occupying US Army found five cyclotrons which were capable of separating fissionable material from ordinary uranium. The US bomb program was accomplished by using gaseous diffusion based separation, but cyclotronic separation was rejected not because it wouldn't work, but because it seemed likely to take longer. Some historians see the willingness of the Germans to supply Uranium to their ally as proof they didn't fully appreciate the potential, while Japan did.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    98. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anarchitektur · · Score: 2, Informative

      "The pen is mightier than the sword" is often taken out of context. Everyone forgets the condition that comes BEFORE that statement: Beneath the rule of men entirely great, the pen is mightier than the sword.

      In countries ruled by a bunch of rich jackasses, the pen doesn't amount to much because nothing you write changes the fact that the rich jackasses still own and run everything! Just look around and you'll see that a 50 megaton nuke is still a lot more persuasive than your Bic; they may not overtly threaten with it, but the unspoken understanding that their power is backed up with force is always there.

    99. Re:I respectfully disagree... by letxa2000 · · Score: 1

      Which is why I'm starting a campaign against entropy.

      So start selling "Entropy Credits." There are people out there that are actually buying carbon credits, so you might as well get in on the scam. :)

    100. Re:I respectfully disagree... by tgd · · Score: 1

      The pen is mightier than the sword: Often propaganda will work better than overt force. Shackle a man's hands and he will try to break free, shackle his mind and he will never consider it. Vaporize him in a ten million degree fireball and it doesn't freakin' matter, now, does it?

    101. Re:I respectfully disagree... by tjstork · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some historians think it was because Germany's racial doctrine was so aggressively disparaging of 'Jewish' physics, and so their research and funding ended up being steered

      The bigger problem was that an impurity in graphite during research caused German scientists to miscalculate the amount of uranium needed to have a sustainable fission reaction, causing them to estimate it at many hundreds of tons, rather than the small pounds that the Americans ultimately came up with. With so many other urgent priorities, it didn't seem possible so therefor, they didn't really pursue it!

      --
      This is my sig.
    102. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Bohiti · · Score: 1

      The true reason for hate is often lost over time. Eventually, people hate just because their parents did.

      Why do modern white supremecists hate other races? On that note, why would whites ever have had reason to hate blacks? As far as I'm aware, whites have treated blacks poorly throughout history. I suppose the answer is along the lines of "america is for the whites", applicable to your land as a resource theory.

    103. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. Guess who.

      --
      Deleted
    104. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!

    105. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      For deaths per dollar you can't beat a good old plague. Try some genetic modification of the influenza virus it killed 50 million in 1918. That'd be a good one, though see if you can't lengthen the incubation period a little to a week or so. Give it more time to spread before symptoms are noticed.

      --
      Deleted
    106. Re:I respectfully disagree... by WhiplashII · · Score: 1

      Perhaps that is true, though too often I think people take offense at things too quickly - and some people seem to get offended just by someone else succeeding where they did not.

      The flip side of that, though, is that no matter how much I understand them - if they want to kill me, I kill them first. In addition, if they are mad at me because of something my ancestors did to their ancestors, I can say sorry but if that doesn't clear it up - **** them, and I will work to remove their power base in any way I can due to self preservation instincts.

      --
      while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
    107. Re:I respectfully disagree... by hitmark · · Score: 2, Interesting

      iirc, it comes from the view that the whites are better then all others.

      i think we can thank the long era of conquest and empire building for that.

      that, and the view that all other cultures are of lesser value in some form or other.

      then when this is shown to be untrue you get that old yoda loop: fear -> anger -> hatred.

      and yes, hatred is hereditary.

      power is a effect of resource access and control. and when you have a group of people that you envision as no more then say a workhorse, you can go on a power trip of sorts. the "america for the whites" is built on the concept of who should control the resources (including the workforce) of the place. the workforce then being the "lesser" races.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    108. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Case in point.

      I caught a tag for the local news yesterday, whose byline was, "How to keep your children safe from predators when trick or treating".

      I don't recall ever going trick or treating by myself, much less, having to worry about predators. Emphasis was always about poisoned or dangerous candy; i.e... razor blades or glass inserted into it.... Maybe its just all the teacher-student sex scandals coming to light as of late or, just that the media is picking up on them more, but it seems to me that the media is emphasizing a 'fear for your children' mentality more than ever.

      What was it? If you keep the public in a constant mindset of some sort of fear, they're easier to control/persuade, concerning issues of 'safety' and their well-being...

      Someone, somewhere, wrote that more elegantly.

    109. Re:I respectfully disagree... by gaforces · · Score: 1

      Rome fell due to nepotism. Along with a lot of other nations ...

    110. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The reason why every empire ultimately fails, and the process leading up to that failure, is actually quite simple. It is an economic process which has been well documented by the likes of Mises, Rothbard, etc. Let's see if I can explain it.

      1. Governments do not actually produce wealth or anything of value, because government is based on the principle of coercion, unlike a market transaction which is based on voluntary association. Rationale: In a voluntary transaction, each side gains (+1) and the net sum is positive (wealth is created). Both sides gain precisely because they entered the transaction voluntarily. In a coercive transaction (i.e. taxing, stealing, slavery, etc), one side gains (+1), but only at the expense of the other side (-1). The net sum is therefore zero and no weath is created -- only moved around, from one party to the other. This logic is crucial to understanding not only how weath comes to exist, but why government cannot actually *produce* wealth, but only move it around.

      2. All governments expand in power and revenue over their lifetimes, especially of course empires. Rationale: No government in history has ever significantly and permanently *reduced* its power or revenue through the process of democracy (the "will of the people"), or indeed, any process short of war. They only get bigger, in terms of both revenue and power over the people -- some more quickly than others, but as history shows, they only get bigger.

      3. Putting #1 and #2 together, we can see that every government is ultimately headed for financial failure. As government takes in more and more revenue from the people who actually produce wealth (the taxpayers) -- while at the same time not able to produce any wealth of its own -- it must eventually reach and surpass the point where there is more wealth being taken than being created. This is the point of no return, and will be indicated by mass borrowing, inflation, and course war, which will eventually become the state's last hope of clinging on to its power.

    111. Re:I respectfully disagree... by beckerist · · Score: 1

      Your momma's so big we used her ass-crack as a fallout shelter.

    112. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Voicesinyourhead · · Score: 0

      Have to write on something....

    113. Re:I respectfully disagree... by HolyCrapSCOsux · · Score: 1

      My pet rock may not love me, but my weighted companion cube has expressed it's love. It wears its heart on it's face(s) for all to see!

      --
      0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
    114. Re:I respectfully disagree... by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      *please mod flamebait, please mod flamebait*

      No, the proper moderation is: "young, loud, ignorant."

    115. Re:I respectfully disagree... by cromar · · Score: 1

      Last time I heard there weren't any martyrs being jailed for growing hemp for paper. At least not in the US.

    116. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But does it work?

    117. Re:I respectfully disagree... by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      Sure sounds like a woman to me.

    118. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Xentor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or, as good ol' St. George (Carlin) said...

      "The planet is fine. The planet isn't going anywhere...... WE ARE! We're goin' away! Pack your shit, folks!"

      --
      "The amount of intelligence on this planet is a constant. The population is growing." -Cole's Axiom
    119. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Gulik · · Score: 1

      Entropy and all that. Nature is a big promoter of entropy.

      I dunno -- nature is pretty good at grabbing all that energy that comes sleeting by from the sun and binding it into structures. It's just that it's not in the business of maintaining that infinitessimal bit of the structure that is you.

    120. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      "Blah Blah Blah Life force blah blah blah"
      Are you fucking retarded. There is no such thing as life force. It's made up. It's completely bullshit.
      People like you are the cancer killing slashdot.
      Kill yourself now.

    121. Re:I respectfully disagree... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Bull.
      Pencils work fine, as does chalk, and a stick in the sand.

    122. Re:I respectfully disagree... by vimh42 · · Score: 1

      "This is the reason I consider false or sensationalist news more dangerous to the wellbeing of society than terrorism."

      Actually they seem to go hand in hand. Terrorism wouldn't be very effective if it wasn't for sensationalist media. And if there wasn't terrorism, the news agencies would have much to talk about.

    123. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Reader+X · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some historians, notably Richard Rhodes, have theorized that the German mismeasurement of the cross-section of graphite was sabotaged by the scientists who did it.

    124. Re:I respectfully disagree... by deglr6328 · · Score: 1

      wow you're like so super smart. I wish I could be as smart as you someday! lol. moron

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
    125. Re:I respectfully disagree... by raddan · · Score: 1

      The Earth is only a very big rock with a layer of pond scum on it. True enough. I remember having a conversation with a hippie-acquaintance of mine (this isn't my label; she was a self-proclaimed hippie, since the 1960's) about our impact on the Earth. I am most definitely at the "preservationist" end of the scale of environmentalism, so maybe she thought I also shared her sense of mysticism about the planet. Anyhow, I remember the shock on her face when I said, "Nature will do just fine without us. I'm not worried about nature." Funny. The universe seems ironic enough that as soon as we get our own priorites straight, we'll probably smash into some very large celestial object. Problem solved.

      Of course, in the scale of my own life, and with the events that we can reasonably expect to happen from our own actions, I think we should make a big effort to set things right. We don't have to revert the planet to a pre-human state, but we should at least attempt to preserve it for our own well-being, and for the aesthetic beauty and knowledge it offers us.
    126. Re:I respectfully disagree... by ca111a · · Score: 1

      I noticed that the downfall of Rome started... The term "Fall of Rome" only applies to Wester Roman Empire (I guess because Rome was in it). The empire itself did not fall, but divided and Byzantine - Eastern Roman Empire with Constantinople as the new Rome - dominated the region for a thousand years more, most of the Roman laws worked there. Also, Constantine did not convert the empire. I do agree that religion or faith can be very powerful and in wrong hands can become dangerous, we see examples of that every day. And at the times of Tsar Bomba - soviet scientists (even though scientists are supposed to be reasonable people) had faith in communism and believed that every western country was planning to attack them. It could have been influenced by the fact that Stalin (who died not too long before that) had religious education...

    127. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Kumba · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Russia, bomb is mightier than pen!
       
      ...There goes my Karma....

    128. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      What about jealousy? There are big chunks of the world that are complete basket cases economically but where people blame all their problems on far away countries that aren't.

      Looking from the outside you can see that the state controlled media is encouraging this sentiment because it moves disatisfaction from the kleptocratic leaders of the country to Jews or Americans. But the thing is that the state controlled media didn't invent these prejudices - they've been around for thousands of years. Ironically the kleptocratic leaders gained power by exploiting them.

      You can see this in the Clinton years. Clinton did all the things the Muslim world could ask for. He pressured the Israelis to make a generous peace offer, saved the Kosovans from the Serbs. And yet most Arabs blame the dire state of their countries not on local despots but on Israel and America. And rather than learning from US support for the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan that the US was their friend they decided that infidel superpowers could be defeated.

      It's actually hard to imagine any possible form of appeasement that would cause the state controlled media to stop whining about Israel and the US.

      Mind you, the people that run these counties presumably don't want to have their palaces and families blown to bits, so let them hate so long as they fear the USAF.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    129. Re:I respectfully disagree... by rssrss · · Score: 1

      "There was also a recent theory that it was plain old malaria that did them in ... any merit to the above?"

      No. Malaria is a symptom of bad government, not a cause.

      The Romans were wonderful hydraulic engineers, but they knew nothing about microscopic bacteria. They drained marshes throughout their empire in order to gain rich, flat, well watered agricultural land. This caused the breeding grounds of mosquitoes to disappear, and malaria to decline.

      When the Empire collapsed, the drainage works went with it. The old swamps became swampy again and malaria returned.

      In discussing the collapse of the Roman Empire, it is well to remember that the Eastern Roman Empire established at Constantinople (modern Istanbul) by Constantine continued to exist for another millennium* after the collapse of the Western Empire. *In a diminished state after the establishment of the Caliphate in the 7th Century.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
    130. Re:I respectfully disagree... by PPH · · Score: 1

      ... my money's still on the pen.
      What about the blinking cursor?
      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    131. Re:I respectfully disagree... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      thats yet another resource related issue. i have it, you dont, you get jealous on me having it.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    132. Re:I respectfully disagree... by kd5ujz · · Score: 1

      No, they will develop their own nuclear weapons, and start a cold war for 30 years.

      --
      -William
      God is everything science has yet to explain.
    133. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Overd0g · · Score: 1

      True. I ammend item #1 to note that taxation isn't a zero sum game. The government does indeed just move money around, but because it charges a substantial handling fee, it is a negative sum game. In other words they are a middle man in a quasi-coercive transaction. Straightforward theft is far more efficient. I say quasi-coercive, because you do have the ability to renounce your citizenship and not pay the taxes.

    134. Re:I respectfully disagree... by mike2R · · Score: 1

      Historical determinism is attractive, but ultimately you're reducing complex interactions between vast numbers of people to simple rules. You have to cut off to much to get it to fit the model for the results to mean anything IMO.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    135. Re:I respectfully disagree... by mike2R · · Score: 1

      You're right. What I meant was that the labelling of the various nomadic tribes around the Empire's borders as barbarians comes directly from the sources. And the sources for the Roman Empire are almost without exception Roman (although the best source for this period describes himself as "a former soldier and a Greek" he was writing for a Roman audience).

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    136. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have to write on something

      With either a pencil or a pen. No advantage there.

      But what about mistakes, you might say? They have erasable ink nowadays, and you can also cross out mistakes with a pencil.

    137. Re:I respectfully disagree... by mike2R · · Score: 1

      While I'm not saying the view that Rome collapsed under it's own decadence is necessarily completely wrong, it should be noted that much of this view comes from Romans themselves - not just any Romans, but those who chose to spend their time writing histories and deploring the current state of Rome when compared to the glorious fortitude of their fathers.

      We are not the men are fathers were is a common refrain through centuries of Roman writings - maybe they're right, but I can't help but think that they're ancestors must have been truly formidable people if they really fell that far for that long.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    138. Re:I respectfully disagree... by careysub · · Score: 2, Informative

      This whole post is fictional history. Some statements in it are factual but the story, as presented, is false.


      Japan was actually getting serious about the possibility of a fission bomb, Germany wasn't. Some historians think it was because Germany's racial doctrine was so aggressively disparaging of 'Jewish' physics, and so their research and funding ended up being steered in other directions. Japan had physicists who weren't afraid to use Einstein's or other Jewish physicists work in their own papers.

      This a confused mishmash of half-facts and outright falsehoods. Nazi purges of academia had lost them a good portion of their best physicists who were either Jewish, or communists, or were non-Germans who simply had had enough of the regime. But Germany was the world center of physics at the time and they still had many, many highly competent physicists. Nazi doctrines had no influence at all in the practice of science by scientists. See Alan Beyerchen's excellent "Scientists Under Hitler".


      In September 1940, the Japanese Army controlled Institute of Physical and Chemical Research, or Rikken, was assigned a preliminary project. In 1942, the Japanese Navy began also (somewhat independently of the Army) working on a Uranium based fission device. The project was called F-Go {or sometimes just No. F, for fission].

      This much about Japan's effort at least is more or less correct, although the Japanese Army did not control the Riken (correct spelling, Rikken is a Dutch card game). The two research programs, NI-Go and F-Go, together constituted a tiny effort by a nation short on scientists and advanced industry. The total peak employment of both programs combined, including assigned military officers was 55 people, and the total amount of money appropriated to the effort was $350,000. The U.S. effort employed 2000 times as many people, and spent 5000 times as much money. In all of Japan there were only 30 active physicists, far too few to staff a serious fission effort. See Walter E. Grunden, "Secret Weapons and World War II: Japan in the Shadow of Big Science", University Press of Kansas, 2005.

      This was located at Kyoto, and was actually the chief reason why Kyoto was added to the list of potential military targets for the U.S. bombs,...

      This is simple fantasy. No such consideration ever came up in the work of the Target Committee.

      ...and the Japanese were probably still four or more years from having a bomb by the end of the war.

      True, though a vast understatement. The Japanese project had only prepared a few grams of ordinary uranium metal, had only a few hundred kilograms of crude uranium compounds on hand, and had not enriched even a microgram of uranium above natural levels. Really, the program had no results at all, and thus could hardly be said to have even truly begun.

      A Japanese plant, concealed in Hungnam, now part of North Korea, may have been the source of heavy water subsequently used by the USSR for its own bomb research. There are reports the Soviet Union continued to run that plant and collected the output every other month by submarine, and it alone may have shaved a year or more off the USSR's development time.

      All of the above is fantasy.

      In May 1945, a German submarine which surrendered to US forces , was found to be carrying over 500 kg. of Uranium oxide destined for Japan. The oxide contained about 3.5 kilograms of isotope U-235. While not enough to make a bomb, that was a sizable fraction of one.

      A bit like evaluating a pile of iron ore in terms of the number of jet engines you could potentially make out of it. That such a small quantity of uranium compound was considered significant by Japan indicates how short of resources they were.


      After the Japanese surrender, the occupying US Army found five cyclotrons which were capable of separating fissionable material from ordinary uranium.

      The U.S. Army didn't "find" them. They weren't secret

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    139. Re:I respectfully disagree... by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 1

      it is easier said: "Nature is a mother!"

      --
      Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

      http://financialpetition.org/
    140. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      It's not really though is it? The Muslim world actually has a lock on oil, the most valuable resource in the world. Lots of countries have managed to develop with much less resources than they have, notably around the Pacific Rim.

      They're poor because their societies suck, not because other people have hogged resources. Mind you, I'm sure the people that run these countries do see things as a battle for resources, like Saddam did with Kuwait. Which makes it all the more important to have a credible military to keep them at bay.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    141. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Saxerman · · Score: 1
      I shall admit to reading, but not writing to alt.destroy.the.earth who ended up subdividing into six groups:

      1.Destruction of all civilization.
      2.Destruction of all humans.
      3.Destruction of all surface-dwelling animals.
      4.Destruction of all animals.
      5.Destruction of all life.
      6.Destruction of the entire planet.

      I seem to recall poison being the best cost effective means for death, such as dropping something into the great lakes. I vaguely recall a few different types of poison being suggested as capable of taking out several million people, and this being rejected as unsuitable on a global scale. There was also the idea of a virus, but I don't think any consensus was reached on how to properly calculate the overall cost of putting together a killer virus.

      --

      A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.

    142. Re:I respectfully disagree... by errxn · · Score: 1

      Oh, I do worry about the Big Rip. Every time my roommate walks in after a few beers, with a bag of tamales in hand. Yes, sir, I do worry.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
    143. Re:I respectfully disagree... by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      That is, I beleive, some of the basis behind the theory that Heisenberg, while very serious about the nuclear physics, had no intention of allowing th german government to get a working bomb. After all, he passed a speculative design he wrote for a nuclear power plant to the americans during the war.

      This doesn't excuse everything he did, but it's better then nothing.

    144. Re:I respectfully disagree... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      thing is, most of those resources carry the brand of multinationals. is it the saudi princes that have their name of the well, or is it shell, exxon, texaco?

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    145. Re:I respectfully disagree... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Terry Pratchett has never seen a Soviet spy wielding a pen.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    146. Re:I respectfully disagree... by dwye · · Score: 1

      > soviet scientists (even though scientists are supposed to be reasonable people) had faith in communism

      Or at least faith in Comrade Stalin, and more importantly, in his secret police. Really, most Soviet advancements during the Stalin Era were created by prisoners under a death sentence, deferred until they were no longer useful. They might have very nice homes that were better than the non-sentenced workers' apartments, but if they were seen as having slacked off, they could be put up against the nearest public wall and shot at any time. It just took one such demonstration a year, in most places.

    147. Re:I respectfully disagree... by ca111a · · Score: 1

      thanks for pointing out, of course that too. Probably even more than the first one. And that is another proof that slavery, in one form or another, still existed (then and exists today).

    148. Re:I respectfully disagree... by ThousandStars · · Score: 1
      Japan was actually getting serious about the possibility of a fission bomb,

      Japan was never close to building an atomic bomb. If you read Richard Rhodes' The Making of the Atomic Bomb, he dissected how far both the Japanese and Germans got toward building one, and the answer was "not very." Neither government really made building one a priority, and neither had the engineering resources to pull it off because they weren't really sure how to.

      I'd quote from Rhodes' book, but it isn't in my apartment.

    149. Re:I respectfully disagree... by nuzak · · Score: 1

      Oh, very nice troll (I mean in the classic AFU sense).

      Now to the goofus that moderated this informative, go look up the latin word for "beard".

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    150. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I think it's the Saudi princes that own it. Though because they don't do anything themselves they probably don't get as much of the profits than for example the Norwegians do. And it's obviously cheaper for Texaco to pay them off than to pay off the Norwegians, since they only have to pay a few influential people and anyone else that complains can be got rid of. Whereas in Norway all the contracts are open and the government would presumably lose an election if it was perceived to have acted in a correupt way or struck a bad deal for the country.

      Basically Norway works and Saudi Arabia doesn't. If the Saudis end up getting screwed over oil it's just a symptom of that.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    151. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thermal expansion?
      Like an egg in a microwave.

    152. Re:I respectfully disagree... by MadUndergrad · · Score: 1

      Interesting, but do you have any sources to back up these claims, besides your good name?

    153. Re:I respectfully disagree... by ThePlague · · Score: 0

      The cake is NOT a lie, but the grief counseling is.

    154. Re:I respectfully disagree... by 2names · · Score: 1

      Dolphins, trees, eskimos...it's all a bunch of hippie crap.

      --
      "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    155. Re:I respectfully disagree... by iocat · · Score: 2, Funny
      This doesn't excuse everything he did, but it's better then nothing.

      I don't know, I remain uncertain about Heisenberg priciples.

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    156. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this yours? Your pen?

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=--dpn34WoxA

    157. Re:I respectfully disagree... by iocat · · Score: 1

      As a person of Roman ancestry, I just want to say "your welcome" to all the Northern European and other barbarians to whom we introduced civilization and urbanization. It was the Roman's influence on the Germanic tribes which enabled those same tribes to actually get it together enough to unite and defeat Rome. D'oh. As for the person above who implicated Christianity in the fall of Rome, the Eastern Empire, no less Christian, lasted for several hundred years after Rome fell. Current theories point to indefensible borders and far less resources than the Eastern Empire as the primary reason for the fall of Rome, quaint theories about lead in the water, christianity, debauchery among the Romans, etc. notwithstanding. (As one of my favorite historians points out: The Romans were just as debauched during their rise as their decline.)

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    158. Re:I respectfully disagree... by modecx · · Score: 1

      Everyone agrees that nuclear weapons are the most heinous, disgusting, inhuman devices ever created.

      I respectfully disagree. The most heinous, disgusting, inhuman device ever created by humans has to be the boy band, or perhaps black liquorice candy. It's kind of a tie, as far as I'm concerned.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    159. Re:I respectfully disagree... by MickLinux · · Score: 1

      Yes, but your preconceptions aside -- have you considered whether life was (in general) better in the Dark Ages, or in the subsequent eras? I say in general, because there were always times and places where life was extremely good for some, but worse for others. So I'm trying not to compare Bill Gates to some serf, or a member of the ancient Hansa family to some Mexican laborer today.

      My own impression is that life was a good deal less bloody in the Dark Ages, than it was in (for example) the last century; there were a good deal fewer martyrs; the tax rates, in terms of the percentage of discretionary income, were lower. Health care was worse, though. In general, though, I'd say the standard of living probably was better in the Dark Ages than it is now. Two world wars, a ton of wars of extermination, a ton of political acts of extermination, a greater separation of rich and poor, a greater all-consuming greed, and so on all make me think that things have not changed for the better.

      Nor do I find most of the technology to be a significant improvement. Admittedly, there is the flush toilet, and I like the reduced smell that comes with that. There is the better hygene at the market for those in the 1st world or 2nd world -- but the difference between a vacuum cleaner and a broom are just not substantial, to my way of thinking.

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
    160. Re:I respectfully disagree... by projectmalamute · · Score: 1

      They say the pen is mightier than the sword but I say fuck the pen, cause you can die by the sword!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    161. Re:I respectfully disagree... by nobodymk2 · · Score: 1

      Decide for yourself Number of results of significant achievements in mankind and/or tools of politics and power (partially assembled from replies) in terms of results on Google: some results are for comparison purposes only! penis - 47,500,000 pen - 135,000,000 Tsar Bomba + RDS-220 111,000 + 10,200 printing press 72,600,000 aqueduct 2,650,000 sewer - 27,900,000 road - 711,000,000 internet - 1,580,000,000 (actually beats Google's 1,560,000,000) langauge - 1,700,000 demoncracy - 78,100,000 paper - 566,000,000 light bulb - 4,910,000 computer - 940,000,000 LED - 340,000,000 love - 1,190,000,000 problem - 719,000,000 relationship - 398,000,000 terrorism - 58,000,000

    162. Re:I respectfully disagree... by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      I don't know, I remain uncertain about Heisenberg priciples

      For that pun you is banned from the normal internets for one month, report to 4chan for social readjustment...

    163. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      The bigger problem was that an impurity in graphite during research caused German scientists to miscalculate the amount of uranium needed to...

      So the *pencil* is mightier than the bomb, not pen.

    164. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Last time I heard there weren't any martyrs being jailed for growing hemp for paper. At least not in the US.

      That's right, because you can't legally grow it for paper in the US without the approval of the DEA. Because somebody decided that a fucking plant that makes you dumb for a few hours is a threat to humanity and needs to be stopped at all costs, civil liberties and constitution be damned.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    165. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Guess what? If you take either concept literally, you end up looking stupid and ignorant. They are a metaphor, a simile, an interpretation, not a literal truth.

    166. Re:I respectfully disagree... by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      What is censored, exactly? I'm curious because I just don't see it, but I don't really go looking for it, either.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    167. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Exactly how much plutonium will we dump in the atmosphere before we realise there are no boundaries, that we all live in a nuclear explosion site, at ground zero. It's not an instant death I fear, its a toxic overload of the food chain. I didn't refer to nukes as 'raping' the earth, though I would refer to strip mining and driftnet trawling and deforestation as such. Simply, if we treat Earth as a dead rock, we can set off nukes and pollute and poison the planet with no consequence. If we treat it like a living biosphere the repercussions of poisoning it are immediately obvious. It's a useful metaphor dammit, but fine if you want to get all starry eyed I'll change the metaphor, just think of it as Spaceship Earth. You wouldn't go setting off nukes or practice any other unsustainable, poisonous actions on board a spaceship now, would you? Easier still, just anthropomorphise the spaceship then don't do anything to kill it.

    168. Re:I respectfully disagree... by smilindog2000 · · Score: 1

      We see little, if any censorship here in the US. If I could suggest any, it would be a porn filter. I have a funny story about trying to find a futon made with Brazilian hardwood. My friend had this awesome futon, and I wanted one. So, I typed "Brazilian hardwood furniture" into Google. Guess what I got back? Yeah... lots of porn. So, I tried "Brazilian furnature", and still got back lots of porn. Finally, I just tried "Brazil", and guess what? Lots of porn! A whole country was associated with porn.

      So, to answer your question, Google is censoring web sites, but only in China, who pay Google for the service. It's about as direct a violation of "Do No Evil" as I can imagine. If you want to see it for yourself, try Googling "tiananmen square" at Google, and then, go to google.cn, and try it again. Very different results!

      --
      Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
    169. Re:I respectfully disagree... by dryeo · · Score: 1

      You miss the point. Hemp, a very big cash crop was illegalized to protect the pulp paper industry which had just been perfected by William Randolph Hearst. Hemp had been the traditional source of paper for a long time and in the 1930's the invention of decorticator promised to make the production of hemp paper not labour intensive anymore. So the leading newspaper magnate made political contributions to get the law changed and using his newspapers to demonized hemp.
      Other industrialists such as DuPont also backed the new laws so they could supply things like the newly invented nylon as a replacement for hemp (clothes and rope at least)
      So everyone in jail for anything to do with marijuana are martyrs to protecting the pulp wood paper industry.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    170. Re:I respectfully disagree... by zobier · · Score: 1

      What is censored, exactly? I'm curious because I just don't see it... Um, that's kinda the point.

      =)
      --
      Me lost me cookie at the disco.
    171. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > But I also know, from various somewhat narrow escapes, that regardless of the cartoon face stuck on nature, it wants to crunch up my bones and return them to the soil and only by my wits or by erecting technological barriers do I keep that from happening.
      >
      > Entropy and all that. Nature is a big promoter of entropy.

      Or more succinctly: "Nature is a mother."

      Since I don't have mod points - I'll applaud from the sidelines.

      "The twentieth century featured any number of -isms. They were fatally based on the delusion that philosophy trumps engineering. It doesn't."
      - Bruce Sterling, "Viridian Note 124: The Manifesto of January 3, 2000"

      I like this planet. Until someplace better comes along, I live here. But my ancestors didn't spend the past 3 billion years producing me to just roll over and let it eat us. Screw the Gaia metaphor. The planet's the screen, and we're playing a video game. Let's play to win.

    172. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Riight good luck with that Captain Kangaroo.

    173. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Did you know people who work in nuclear power plants live longer than the average for the US population? The evidence suggests that this nuclear "poison" is not as poisonous as you assume.

      As for strip mining--life grows back at strip mine sites, too. If every mountain on earth were strip mined, only a tiny fraction of the earth would be affected. Once the mining is done, vegetation would return in a matter of years, followed by the same species of animals that lived there before.

      I'm all for sustainable industry, but when you exaggerate and dramatize things that are harmless on a global scale, you hurt your cause.

      By the way: one organism's poison is another organism's food. You really should study biology a bit more before you spout off nonsense.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    174. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering diamond wars, blood feuds, and various overthrowings and other conflicts in third world countries... Not to mention Vietnam, Afghanistan (both times), etc... I'd take an edumacated guess that the AK-47 is probably in the lead for most deaths per monetary unit spent.

    175. Re:I respectfully disagree... by tgrigsby · · Score: 1

      Your momma's nose is so big, she's got bats living in it.

      --
      *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
    176. Re:I respectfully disagree... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Lol.. No. That might be some of it for some but it isn't the real reasons.

      You have several factors (especially in America). First, black people were considered only part human at one point in time and were treated more like property or cattle then people. So you had some who just treated them less then human. Another reason is that the first exposure to blacks for most people throughout American history was through slaves that couldn't speak English or any other language that the slave masters could understand. They often spoke some African dialect that sounded a lot gibberish and their mental capacity was thought to be the same (less then human). And this doesn't touch on the idea of being civilized, even the least common denominator by early European standards appeared levels advanced then the barbaric cave men like people that minorities where thought to be. Up to here, you can pretty much substitute blacks for any other minority.

      Now here is probably where the majority of the hate came from that eventually got passed down until the original reasons where lost. In the south, after the civil war, everything was in ruins, Sherman burnt most everything of importances along his campaign to win the civil war. The confederate dollar was invalidated and all the slave owners found a good portion of their fortune (slave labor) missing in action. Times where tough for a good while and the Blacks who where former slaves had little idea of the value of money so they worked for next to nothing. This ended up displacing a lot of higher paid White workers as well as driving the average wages down. (think of the illegal immigration issues of today and why people claim to be pro immigration and anti illegals without being racists.) Except the big difference with ex-slaves is that their skin color made it very difficult to forgive and assimilate back into the communities because there was such a difference in appearance. This led to the creation of the KKK which was originally a labor union of sorts that took things too far. Eventually they started justifying their positions with religion and we have what we seen today.

      Usually, growth in the economy would displace fears and set everything back on track (it worked for the Irish who where discriminated against for economical reasons too). But the political influence (mostly because blacks weren't allowed to vote for some time afterwards) elected by the whites who were shut out of jobs and was blaming their tough times on the blacks taking their jobs and working for less ended up segregating the two populations. This segregation allowed the same hate to stick around even after there was a fair chance for everyone who wanted to be employed to find a reasonable paying job.

      This glosses over some things and doesn't pay enough attention to others (like how jackson's impeachment was connected as well as some pretty serious injustices like the Projects and so on). But it does explain the fundamentals of why there was/is a race problem and why America's problems on the situation seem to be uniquely different and longer lasting then the trials other similar countries have gone through. If you listen to the rhetoric being said about it today, you will see that three things still come up as justifications for hate, Money, level of inteligence (less then human gibberish), and something distinctly different enough about the appearance that they can easily be distinguished from other regular people.

      Notice that I said they and not Blacks. It would appear that you could insert almost any subgroup of the populous that has different skin colors and see the same issues. Even blacks are prejudice over other blacks that come from different countries for these same reasons. It really has nothing or very little to do with control over resources and getting a power trip from it. People like that are just assholes and aren't limited to a skin color.

    177. Re:I respectfully disagree... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I heard something about this on the radio just earlier today. I guess the rationing behind Keeping your kids safe from sexual predators has to do with some kiddie rapists who admitted they used this holiday as a conduit to their victims.

      Apparently, a parent walking a kid up to the doors of a stranger at a strange house, asking for and receiving candy, tells some kids that this guy is an OK guy who isn't one of those strangers they aren't supposed to talk to. Then later, the pervert will talk about the kids costume or whatever as a way to approach the kids when they start to work their sick shit. Eventually, the kid either disappears or is molesting the kids without anyone else knowing it. And that seems to be a pattern that some are concerned about.

      I guess a sexual predator who molests kids doesn't like doing the molest and kill thing in some foreign neighborhood, they like to establish relationships so they can continue molesting the kids over time as if it was a committed relationship. IT is really sick when thinking about it but the molestations that happened after Halloween where never really connected to Halloween being the opening of the door that allows the pervert in.

    178. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you blind or simply illiterate? He mentions two excellent books in his rebuttal.

    179. Re:I respectfully disagree... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      and yet you talk about both money and power up there.

      its the source, while its isnt the justification (any longer at least)...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    180. Re:I respectfully disagree... by hawk · · Score: 1

      >When I was a history undergraduate, I remember one of my lecturers saying
      >he thought it was a question that frequently said more about the writer than anything else;

      The Roman Empire was a military dictatorship founded in civil war, and for which civil war was the ongoing state between the competing emperors . . . as this progressed for centuries, how could it *not* have competing factors bringing it down?

      hawk

    181. Re:I respectfully disagree... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Money and power are superficial in this. They may rear their heads but it really went to self preservation more then anything else. Money and power are more like tools to implement something rather then motivations. And I think that is one of reasons that quotas with affirmative action don't work in easing tensions but they do work in getting minorities jobs.

      The motivations of hate wasn't because someone wanted to be rich. It was because someone wanted to survive. It was ingrained into government policies not because a mayor or governor feared loosing their jobs and power but because they feared losing the votes of people who actually voted that was trying to survive.

      Look at something as simple as the prevailing wage. It was instituted not because of some inherent right for workers to make a certain amount of money, but because a white companies were going out of business and the employees were starving when black companies were under cutting bids on projects. So with prevailing wages, labor costs couldn't be used to under bid on a project and the people who refused to work for less didn't go hungry attempting to support their family. Of course this also benefited the white companies who were more organized and could do things more efficiently with volume discounts on materials and so on. SO while money was part of it, the desire to make/earn a living was the motivator not putting cash into the bank.

      There has been several trials in American history where someone's well being has been the motivator for hate but touched on money or power of some sorts. And when it was addressed as money and power, it wasn't ever resolved until the point until the perceived "well being" was addressed.

    182. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There is no Gaia, and the Earth does not have a soul." They didn't tell you? You don't have a soul, either.
    183. Re:I respectfully disagree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No moderator love for that? TANJ

    184. Re:I respectfully disagree... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      All we theoretically need to survive is neutrons, protons, electrons, and energy
      Don't forget that E=mc^2 so your differentiation between matter and energy is theoretically meaningless.
      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    185. Re:I respectfully disagree... by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      1. Governments do not actually produce wealth or anything of value, because government is based on the principle of coercion, unlike a market transaction which is based on voluntary association.

      Wow! Hang on there a sec, Ayn Rand! What is your basis for thinking this? Because it sounds more like capitalistic idealism than a theory based on reasoning.

    186. Re:I respectfully disagree... by tgrigsby · · Score: 1

      In reference to the pen and the sword:

      Neither is mightier, just different tools for different situations which can be used together for greater effect.

      Wrong answer. It would depend entirely on which one Chuck Norris was holding.

      --
      *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
  3. thanks by deathtopaulw · · Score: 1

    and with that lovely thought, I go to bed
    to dream dreams of nuclear holocaust

    1. Re:thanks by BlackMesaLabs · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind, thermonuclear bombs have practically no maximum yield. In theory, you can build them as big as you want, as long as you've got the raw materials. The only reason we stop at 50-100 megatons is because the larger weapons won't fit on a plane or missile. Now, if you wanted to build a doomsday device of some kind...

    2. Re:thanks by drgonzo59 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, but you can transport them on a large nuclear submarine and quietly lay them down by your enemies coastlines. Say 20 of these 100Mt bad boys and you got yourself a nice man made tsunami. No need to fly around or expose the launch...

    3. Re:thanks by KDR_11k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually we don't even use bombs that size because it's just expensive overkill, doing more damage to the atmosphere and planet than to the target you were aiming at. It's more effective to use a missile with a crapload of small warheads that can be targetted individually so you know you hit what you were aiming for and aren't restricted to placing a circle of damage in one point that has to contain all targets. Also as crappy as modern anti-ICBM weapons are, they're still more likely to take down a single, huge warhead than a swarm of tiny ones, probably with decoys scattered in.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    4. Re:thanks by mrbluze · · Score: 1

      Yes, but you can transport them on a large nuclear submarine and quietly lay them down by your enemies coastlines. Say 20 of these 100Mt bad boys and you got yourself a nice man made tsunami. No need to fly around or expose the launch... Reminds me of a conspiracy theory I read about the recent big tsunami, actually, based on a few odd blips that appeared on the seismograph just before the big shake... probably was the librarian tapping her pen on the desk nearby... but you know what they say about pens.
      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    5. Re:thanks by cybersavior · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I don't buy that. Lets assume that the 20 submarines carrying these actually get past our detection grid and line themselves along the Atlantic seaboard. First off, it would have to be a suicide mission for all those on the subs. Figuring a 20 person skeleton crew each, thats 400 people having to get out of the range of 20, 100mt bombs spread over a few hundred miles--not gonna happen. Secondly, the underwater fallout would completely destroy all sea life in the Atlantic, ergo no fishing in the North and the destruction of global seafood market. That scenario belongs in Kubrick film, not in reality. No offense to the parent.

    6. Re:thanks by alyosha1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is laying nuclear mines a suicide mission? Just a question of a long enough time-delay, surely? You'd only need one sub, working its way along the coast. And as for avoiding detection, Boomers have gotten rather good at that over the last 50 years.

    7. Re:thanks by atezun · · Score: 1

      If you're trying to tell me that a nuclear sub can't get past a detection grid when a boatload of Asian immigrants can, then you sir, are off your rocker.

    8. Re:thanks by Alt_Cognito · · Score: 0

      This somehow assumes that military equipment can't tell the difference between a fishing boat and a 450ft long submarine. I'll admit, sometimes the military is incompetent, but I'm not this cynical.

    9. Re:thanks by IdleTime · · Score: 1

      No, bad idea.

      What you do, is to take numerous supertankers, 200,000+ dwt make each one into a multi gigaton nuclear device, fit it with remote control and GPS, sail them into position and set them off remotely. Such ships can be in the order of 10 gigaton devices.

      --
      If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
    10. Re:thanks by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      The military apparatus in question isn't trying to filter
      out the fishing boat. They don't care. It's like the kid
      that flew a civilian single engine plane to Moscow. Navies
      and Air Forces generally have more obviously evil targets to
      worry about and limited resources.

      There's not going to be a total dragnet unless there is a
      "real" war on.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    11. Re:thanks by Afty0r · · Score: 1

      This somehow assumes that military equipment can't tell the difference between a fishing boat and a 450ft long submarine. I'll admit, sometimes the military is incompetent, but I'm not this cynical.
      This is how the Brits actually sunk a US carrier in exercises a few years ago.

      They were supposed to penetrate a full carrier battle group with destroyer escorts, airborne detection etc. So they waited until night, surfaced and made way towards the group with a radar profile not that dissimilar to a fishing trawler and claimed to be one. Once inside torpedo range they lit up and announced their presence :)
    12. Re:thanks by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are exactly correct. This is why the most fearsome weapon ever built was not the "Tsar Bomba," but rather the Peacekeeper/MX ICBM. The Peacekeeper could physically hold up to 12 300kt warheads (limited by treaty to 10), each independently targetable.

      Nukes kill with three types of damage: thermal, blast, and ionizing radiation. These three different effects scale differently, as you can read here.

      Since the amount of blast-based destruction goes down rapidly the farther from "ground zero" you go (inverse-cube law), it makes sense that a big-ass fucking bomb like the "Tsar Bomba" doesn't get you very far. However, in the picture depicted here you can see how modern weapon desigs get around this - each streak is a dummy reentry vehicle from a single Peacekeeper/MX test launch; which if it were not a launch vehicle test would have a mushroom cloud underneath, each with 20x the power of the Hiroshima blast.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    13. Re:thanks by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 2, Funny

      And as for avoiding detection, Boomers have gotten rather good at that over the last 50 years.

      But the sounds of The Big Chill soundtrack always give them away in the end.

    14. Re:thanks by Alt_Cognito · · Score: 0

      Umn, believe me, the US patrols it's borders with a dragnet constantly. They are always watching.

      1999 yes... It's the only thing I could turn up in 30 seconds. It happened over the summer as well. They watch us, we watch them. It will go on for quite some time.

    15. Re:thanks by danielobvt · · Score: 1

      Detection Grid?!? Along the entire coastline of the US? Bwahhhhhhahahahahaha!!!!
      Funniest statement I have heard today.... It would take a miracle to hear these suckers... given that our ASW for our surface combatants is a joke and our sub fleet is severely depleted and deployed....

    16. Re:thanks by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "You'd only need one sub, working its way along the coast."

      Why go high tech? A container ship could toss ISO containers containing mines overboard (pitch them off the outboard upper levels) with little effort and simple tackle. It could make a normal delivery, then leave the area long before the mines went off.

      Lots of containers fall off every year without human help.
      http://www.cargolaw.com/2004nightmare_unstacked.html

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    17. Re:thanks by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Yes, but you can transport them on a large nuclear submarine and quietly lay them down by your enemies coastlines. Say 20 of these 100Mt bad boys and you got yourself a nice man made tsunami. No need to fly around or expose the launch...

      But the radiation and tsunami's are going to mess up your own country also. It would have to be a desparation move.

    18. Re:thanks by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      thats 400 people having to get out of the range

      You realize there are certain advantages of being a dictatorship. Thousands died in the Soviet Union mining and processing the radioactive materials to produce the bombs. 400 more is not gonna phase them.

    19. Re:thanks by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Ignoring that it would be near impossible to build that many, much less get a sub next to a coast line undetected.

      The effects of that many being detonated at once would be horrific inpact on all countries, even the one that put them there.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    20. Re:thanks by geekoid · · Score: 1

      yep, and there has been NO progress on tracking them at all. Plus they can't control the ocean. The effects would be felt all over the ocean.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  4. Pedantry: ENGAGED by ZombieRoboNinja · · Score: 0

    "The Tsar Bomba qualifies as the single most powerful device ever utilized throughout the history of humanity." Except for, say, the aforementioned sun, which human beings have been regularly "utilizing" ever since we first decided it might be a good idea for our bodies to process some Vitamin D.

    1. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by JanneM · · Score: 5, Informative

      "The Tsar Bomba qualifies as the single most powerful device ever utilized throughout the history of humanity." Except for, say, the aforementioned sun, The sun is not a device. You know, if we're going to be pedantic.
      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    2. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by mastershake_phd · · Score: 1

      "The Tsar Bomba qualifies as the single most powerful device ever utilized throughout the history of humanity." Except for, say, the aforementioned sun, which human beings have been regularly "utilizing" ever since we first decided it might be a good idea for our bodies to process some Vitamin D.
       
      Well that, and I like to be above absolute zero...

    3. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Go build me 1% of a sun and put it on an Arctic island, then get back to me. :P

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    4. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Tough one. The sun is certainly a nuclear reactor. Is the defining property of a device that it was created by someone? I guess this is an intelligent design issue. ;)

    5. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by ZombieRoboNinja · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sure it is. "A device whereby hydrogen is converted through fusion reactions to helium for the purpose of releasing energy." Didn't you read IBM's patent application?

    6. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by timmarhy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      no you stupid nob head, a device must be DEVISED by someone. hence the sun is not a device. better pay more attention next time

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    7. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by PDXNerd · · Score: 1

      Is the defining property of a device that it was created by someone? M-W.com says a device is: something devised or contrived: as a (1): plan, procedure, technique

      Here are two assumptions based on what I understand this thread to be about.

      1 - A device, in this case a large bomb, is a human contrivance, and it was the most powerful chemical explosive device ever created.
      2 - A device, in this case the sun, is a device of intelligent design, and this bomb is the most powerful device a human has ever created - and this particular article uses this a bad analogy of the sun as an example (i.e. the sun outputs 20000 mid-sized SUVs worth of power every 1/400th pico second.)

      Why not compare this bomb to 5000 earthquakes? Or 10^-600 seconds of the energy a black hole swallows? And really, the origin of the comparative 'device' is irrelevant. A comparison of energy output is a sensationalist way of looking at things, as I'm sure the amount of energy created by the combined nuclear reactors on this planet, for any given amount of time, equal the energy released by this bomb. It all depends on what comparison you're making and the reaction you'd like.

      Ooh, here's one, this bomb was equal 1/100 to the amount of energy squawked by baby animals being slaughtered cruelly for their meat in the last century. Baby animals I tell you!!! And don't even get me started on the volcanoes...
    8. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I know what device means in English but I have to admit I don't have a clue what it means in Modern American Spin. I suppose if you assert it enough it a word can mean anything but you will "loose" touch with a lot of people trying to understand what you are trying to communicate :)

    9. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by Trogre · · Score: 1

      ... as far a we know.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    10. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by McFadden · · Score: 1

      I guess this would be the wrong time to bring up intelligent design then...

      ...come to think of it. Is there ever a right time?

    11. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by Frogbert · · Score: 1

      frogbert@frogbert-laptop:~$ ls /dev/sun
      ls: /dev/sun: No such file or directory Yep he is right.
    12. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can't patent it. God released the stellar design as Open Source. You can reverse-engineer it as much as you want, and you are free to create as many stars as you wish.

      Just not in my backyard, dude.

    13. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by jonasj · · Score: 1

      Jonathan Schwartz is gonna be pissed off.

      --
      You know, Microsoft's street address also says a lot about their mentality.
    14. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      Wow, someone's had a sense of humour failure...

    15. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's up to God whether he wants to claim prior art. I don't think he will though..

    16. Re:Pedantry: ENGAGED by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      [Sun is not a "device"] Sure it is. "A device whereby hydrogen is converted through fusion reactions to helium for the purpose of releasing energy." Didn't you read IBM's patent application?

      But prior art BSOD'd 4.7 billion years ago, creating interstellar dust and plasma that eventually created IBM in the process.

  5. Re:YEEEES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    To drop on the Whitehouse, the Pentagon, and your house, I assume?

  6. Mother Of All Bombs? iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, the RDS-220 was impressive, but it ain't got nothing on the Jobs' iPhone marketplace bomb...

  7. how exactly is this newsworthy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This video has been floating around the 'net for years. So...what...slow day or something??

  8. Nah. by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 4, Funny

    Vista's still a bigger bomb.

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    1. Re:Nah. by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 1

      LOL! Mod parent up!

    2. Re:Nah. by FredDC · · Score: 4, Funny

      Could be, but it's never been used!

      --
      09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63
    3. Re:Nah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it does more a big wooooooow than a big boom.

    4. Re:Nah. by ozbird · · Score: 1

      Could be, but it's never been used!

      The Ultimate (Home Edition) deterrent - you'd be MAD to use it.

    5. Re:Nah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait for the next version....
      "Windows - Tsar Bomba Edition"

    6. Re:Nah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or tested

  9. video here by gambolt · · Score: 4, Informative
    1. Re:video here by deniable · · Score: 1

      Don't look at the flash. Close your eyes and look away.

    2. Re:video here by Card · · Score: 4, Informative

      Be kind to the server; YouTube has video footage as well.

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=pgY9gYoCsgs
    3. Re:video here by beset · · Score: 1

      Does anyone else find it ironic that video is presented by "php-nuke"? :)

      --
      1) Clever Sig 2) ????? 3) Profit!
    4. Re:video here by codergeek42 · · Score: 1

      "Be kind to the server [...]"

      Kindness? To servers? You must be new here. Welcome to SlashDot. :)

  10. Insightful? by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

    First off, the Sun isn't a device. Second, we 'use' it for almost everything. The food we eat is grown directly or indirectly using the Sun's energy. The weather system of the Earth is driven mostly by the Sun. One could probably spend hours making lists of things we directly or indirectly 'utilize' the Sun for.

    If you're going to engage in pedantry at least get it right. I know it was probably an attempt at humor. Better luck next time :)

  11. Color, odor and flavor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Penis mightier.

    1. Re:Color, odor and flavor by JonathanR · · Score: 1

      You wanna see when I get swinging my sword tho'

  12. If you haven't ever seen it by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 1

    I would strongly recommend watching Trinity and Beyond http://imdb.com/title/tt0114728/
    It available on DVD..
    You'll get to see some wicked badass bombs.

    1. Re:If you haven't ever seen it by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Informative

      Trinity and Beyond along with the Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes are a very good primer on the Anglo-American development along with the science and math done in Europe and the Americas from 1900-1945.

      If you are interested in the spying and hydrogen bomb development along with the Soviet bomb, Rhodes Black Sun covers that.

    2. Re:If you haven't ever seen it by Ours · · Score: 1

      And... it... has... Wiliam... Shakner... narrating.

      --
      "You superiour intellect is no match for our puny weapons" - The Simpsons
  13. test? by apodyopsis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    they are always labeled a "test". what exactly were they testing?

    that they can make a bloody big bang?

    what the after effect were?

    ..or they they could go one step further in a foolish session of bloody pointless political brinkmanship?

    I always thought with nuclear weapons, that really after a certain size there were precious little point is making it more powerful.

    1. Re:test? by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1

      They don't test nuclear weapons, those were perfected in the 60s. What they do test are weapons against mutated superants and megaspiders. And since you need a nuclear explosion to get those in the first place...

    2. Re:test? by rwven · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're testing the effects of shockwaves, which types of light and how much of them are emitted in the blast, what exactly goes on (at the visible and molecular level) in the milliseconds after detonation, and PLENTY of other things. They were also testing new bomb designs and making sure they worked.

      Regardless of what conspiracy theorist ideas you may have, they didn't spend billions developing these bombs, and then cause lots of (localized) damage testing them just for the pretty fireworks show. The tests DID have a point.

      Not that I'm saying I LIKE the idea that the things are hanging around anymore. The idea that one bomb could kill millions and the idiotic world leaders wave them around like a revolver in the hands of a drunk is just a little on the "what the hades, are you totally insane??" side of things. It's a sad state of affairs we live in when people talk about "nukes for nukes" instead of the lives of the people that would be vaporized without a chance. If you've gotta use weapons, make them conventional or there won't be much of a world left to argue over...yaknow?

    3. Re:test? by Lavene · · Score: 2, Insightful

      they are always labeled a "test". what exactly were they testing?

      that they can make a bloody big bang?
      The word 'test' in this context really means: "Look what we can do!" Nuclear deterrent in practice. The whole idea behind nuclear weapons is to discourage your enemy from attacking so you want them to see exactly what you can do to them. It's a scary tactic but it seem to have worked... so far...
    4. Re:test? by BlueParrot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I always thought with nuclear weapons, that really after a certain size there were precious little point is making it more powerful.


      You got that right. This is why modern weapons don't even go above one megaton. Instead you load multiple warheads that are "only" a few hundred kilotons into a single missile. Of course, this is pretty much overkill as well, because quite frankly, a "small" number of warheads will be quite sufficient as a deterrent. The chance that somebody will attack you if they know they will get 50 nukes flying right back at them is not very much greater than if they are going to get 400 nukes back in their face. Now, to put this into perspective, the US has more than 5000 warheads in service, and more than 9000 stockpiled. Russia has close to 6000 in service, and 16000 stockpiled. The UK has 750 in service, France has 350, and China some 130. India has about 80, Pakistan about 10, and Israel is suspected to have between 100-300.

      Thus in total there are some 10.000 warheads in service in the world, which works out to about 100 nukes per country. As anybody with half a brain can see, this is absolutely silly. The larger nuclear powers could cut their arsenals by a factor of 10, and they would still have several hundred nukes in service as a deterrent.
    5. Re:test? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 5, Informative

      They are testing new materials and designs of the electronics and radioactive materials used. Some tests do fail or exceed expectations. Something like the George" shot, was physics experiment relating to the hydrogen bomb.

      Buster-Jangle-Able was a fizzile with a one kilogram yield, but with alot of radiation.

      The American test, Castle Bravo, yielded almost double the expected yield.

      Castle Bravo didn't use cryogenic boosters for its fusion phase, so it lead to the developable and miniaturization of the hydrogen bomb (Fission-Fusion and Fission-Fusion-Fusion)

      Then you tested to make sure entire systems world, like Grable of the Upshot-Knothole test was a nuclear weapon fired from a 280mm artillery piece and became the proof shot for the entire like of American nuclear artillery rounds.

      Then also from tests at different altitudes they've learned to optimize the device's explosion altitude so smaller devices can be deployed.

    6. Re:test? by timmarhy · · Score: 0
      it's not just a numbers game. sure america has 5000 in service, but in a situation where the enemy gets the first strike they might wipe out most of those. after all it'd make sense to attack their nuclear sites first to try prevent retaliation.

      we need to maintain enough servicable nukes to make sure they can't all be taken out, thus assuring any enemy that attempts a first strike will face obliteration.

      on the whole the current nuclear policies amongest the OLD nuclear powers is very moderate. it's the new ones like pakistan, china and india that scare the shit out of me.

      seriously, tell me why the fuck pakistan or india need nukes? there's no serious threat of invasion to either of them, they have no powerful international enemies. sure they fight amongest each other in a few disputed area's but it's nothing conventional weapons can't handle.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    7. Re:test? by JonathanR · · Score: 1

      I guess they'd get it right eventually

    8. Re:test? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Thats the Nevada Test Site and those are the results of the various tests.

      Now it didn't work that when the atomic and later, the hydrogen bomb were done the testing was done.

      They had to test various weaponization, mass production and designs of the weapons out there.

      The Atomic Bomb Movie as mentioned in other threads here talks alot about those progressions.

    9. Re:test? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      they are always labeled a "test". what exactly were they testing?
      The test serves two main purposes

      1: to make sure that the bomb works the way you think it will.
      2: to demonstrate to others that the bomb really works the way you claim it will.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    10. Re:test? by Yetihehe · · Score: 1

      What they do test are weapons against mutated superants and megaspiders.
      Or against terrorists *ducks*
      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    11. Re:test? by animaal · · Score: 1

      seriously, tell me why the fuck pakistan or india need nukes? there's no serious threat of invasion to either of them, they have no powerful international enemies. sure they fight amongest each other in a few disputed area's but it's nothing conventional weapons can't handle. I would suggest that a country like India or Pakistan is more likely to be fighting a war on its own doorstep than either the USA or Russia is. Although I would disagree with them, I can at least see the logic behind either India or Pakistan saying they need nuclear weapons as a deterent.

      But can you seriously imagine the USA needing nuclear weapons because of an invasion by a foreign army? Or Britain? Or Russia? Those countries are just waving their dangly-bits around. And it makes it difficult to take seriously their attempts to disarm other countries.

      Being from a country that has no nuclear weapons, and barely has an armed force at all, I fail to see why a huge, powerful country feels insecure enough to need nuclear weapons.
    12. Re:test? by Anspen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the usual competition reason: China has nukes, so India must have them to protect herself, whereupon which Pakistan must have nukes to protect itself against India (and ironacly gets help from China to do so).

      Plus it like a large population: if you're country isn't doing too well on other measures, nukes are a nice way of rising above the pack.

    13. Re:test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      they are always labeled a "test". what exactly were they testing?

      Whether or not the could scare the hell out of us.

      Tsar was never produced simply because it is totally inapplicable to its intended purpose. And for a nuclear weapon, that's gotta be pretty goddamn big. It's too much in too difficult of a package to effectively deliver. Sure it worked during WWII, but why would you use a plane dropped bomb to attack your enemy, in an age of missiles?

      On top of that, your bomber (and whatever escorts he had) would NEVER get out of the way of the blast. That's why they put a parachute on the thing when they tested it, not to mention told the pilots "Well, we can't exactly guarantee you'll live, but... long live Mother Russia!". Everything within say, 100 miles up would suffer 3rd degree burns almost instantly.

      It's too much. Even the Russians saw that. And when the Russians say something is too big, it's gotta be friggin' massive.

    14. Re:test? by Edgyboy · · Score: 1

      In the military mind, two nukes(tanks, bombs, etc) are always better than one.

      --
      Magazine 13 - We like to think its funny... sort of
    15. Re:test? by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      I fail to see why a huge, powerful country feels insecure enough to need nuclear weapons

      But what is the source of that power, *in this context*? It's the standing armed forces and the hardware at their disposal, including the nukes.

      I'm not saying that they're necessarily required, just pointing out that the sense of security comes from the knowledge that no-one dare fuck with them in a conventional war. Now terrorism, that's proving to be a different matter (and will be further increasing the perceived need for a powerful military, nukes and all)

    16. Re:test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sure america has 5000 in service, but in a situation where the enemy gets the first strike they might wipe out most of those. after all it'd make sense to attack their nuclear sites first to try prevent retaliation.

      we need to maintain enough servicable nukes to make sure they can't all be taken out, thus assuring any enemy that attempts a first strike will face obliteration. Assuming most are attached to ICBMs, why not just target and fire them? We'd detect any "first strikes" of that magnitude long before they got near the continent, don't you think?
    17. Re:test? by timmarhy · · Score: 1
      well, the USA got them initally because, well, they developed them to begin with and i guess you could say once they had them there was no way they would be parted from that kind of power.

      the uk and france got them from the americans (well the know how anyway) and since they are allies, it makes sense to arm your allies.

      i guess the percived threat from the USA was why russia developed them. guess from the russians perspective the threat was real, and nukes was the most fesible method of fighting off a full scale attack. especially since like you said an actual invasion of america wasn't very fesible.

      but honestly, i don't see the pakkies and curries in that much of a dispute that nukes would even be considered. I mean seriously like they need a nuke to settle the dispute in cashmere. I think for these countries it's more of a case of needing to show they are part of the big boys club then any REAL military need for nuclear weapons.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    18. Re:test? by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      The UK has 750 in service

      The rest of these figures are about right AFAIK, but this one's well over. A lot of British bombs have been retired lately - mostly old air-drop ones that would have needed V-bombers to carry - and more have been mothballed, leaving only around 250 in service on the Trident subs.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    19. Re:test? by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      "They're testing the effects of shockwaves, which types of light and how much of them are emitted in the blast, what exactly goes on (at the visible and molecular level) in the milliseconds after detonation"

      Who the hell cares? The whole point of a nuke is that it lays waste to a few hundred square miles. Why would they argue the toss about the effect of the shockwave if its going to flatten everything anyway?? As for light , err , I think we can assume there'll be plenty of gamma rays & x rays to nicely fry any living organism in the blast area. Isn't that enough FFS??

    20. Re:test? by Ironsides · · Score: 1

      i guess the percived threat from the USA was why russia developed them.

      Actually, the Russian nuclear weapons program started during WWII, just like the USA's.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    21. Re:test? by paanta · · Score: 1
      My understanding is that the first strike would _not_ wipe out that many hardened missile sites and that the idea of a quick kill is BS. I've read about scenarios that have us engaging an enemy with missile silos and subs in a potentially weeks-long nuclear war, which is for some reason vastly more frightening than a single big boom. The idea is you pack a bunch of silos close together for protection. You need a direct hit to kill the silo. Unfortunately, that explosion throws up so much debris that any ICBMs coming down from the heavens at warp speed get shredded apart. So you have to wait for the dust to clear before you can fire your next shot. In the meantime, the neighboring silos fire their missiles, which can leave the area through the dust cloud because they're traveling so much slower. The back-and-forth goes on until someone decides to stop.

      No clue how realistic this scenario is. I read about it on the Internet.

    22. Re:test? by Descalzo · · Score: 1

      The USA never once had nuclear weapons to deter a war on its own doorstep. The USA has rarely done anything to deter a war on its own doorstep. We have nukes to deter nuclear war. This may be a different reason than why we got them in the first place, but that's why we have them now.

      --
      I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
    23. Re:test? by kilo_foxtrot84 · · Score: 1

      Another reason why relatively lower yield bombs have been retained is that they can be more effective. I can't remember the page or document, but I remember reading somewhere that the right dispersal patterns using multiple kT range devices will generate larger regions of destructive overpressure than a single MT range device. We hold onto the smaller weapons because we can do a better job with them, from a cold and technical viewpoint.

    24. Re:test? by Atzanteol · · Score: 1

      No, it's not enough. You don't always just want a 'big boom'. You want to know exactly what a weapon will do so you can make them appropriately for different scenarios. If you just make the biggest weapon you can and assume 'it's enough' you'll be dropping huge ordinance and risking large amounts of collateral damage.

      The US rather than making them bigger makes them small enough to fit into MIRVs and such. Or to be fired by artillery cannons (at one time). But you need to know *what it will do*. How close to friendly units can it be used? What sort of outcome can we expect when it's used? etc.

      You also want to know whether the airplane *dropping* the bomb has enough time to fly away from the explosion (I know with the Tsar Bomba this was a concern).

      Forget the anti-nuke hippy mentality for a bit and think about the situation for crying out loud.

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    25. Re:test? by worromot · · Score: 1

      It all depends on delivery system. If its precision is low (e.g. high altitude bomber) then the only good deterrent is to hit a large, high-value target with a big blast -- that's why initial targets were big cities. If you have a precision delivery system, it makes sense to target things like missile silos. Interestingly, when the Navy got in the game -- with the submarine-based missiled that were very low precision in the beginning, the strategy shifted back to targeting big cities. (I cannot recommend Fred Kaplan's book "The Wizards of Armageddon" highly enough; it deals with all these questions).

    26. Re:test? by Robert+Heinich · · Score: 1

      >>> in total there are some 10.000 warheads in service in the world

      While I am not arguing with you, it was much worse. In the early 90s, there were about 70,000 weapons, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons#History

    27. Re:test? by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      "If you just make the biggest weapon you can and assume 'it's enough' you'll be dropping huge ordinance and risking large amounts of collateral damage"

      Sorry , is there a nuke that doesn't have a large amount of collateral damage? What , you think someone would worry that "hey , we can bomb moscow and kill 10 million , but we don't want to damage the little town 10 miles east". Gimme a break.

      "Or to be fired by artillery cannons (at one time). But you need to know *what it will do*. How close to friendly units can it be used?"

      The fact that anyone seriously considered battlefield nukes makes me really wonder about the average IQ level in the US military.

      "Forget the anti-nuke hippy mentality for a bit and think about the situation for crying out loud"

      Its nothing about a hippy mentality , its a case of trying to find any logic in the military mentality of fine tuning a weapon thats the most unsubtle and non discriminating thing thats ever been divised. Its a bit like going to a rock concert and making sure all the mice are removed in case any of their squeaking disturbs the music.

    28. Re:test? by Atzanteol · · Score: 1
      You seem to be rather blinded by only being able to think of one scenario in which to use a nuclear bomb - flattening a large city during total nuclear war.

      Lets say somebody else is threatening us with a bomb, and we know the size and model. Wouldn't it be nice to know how it would effect us? Or perhaps we decide to use one against people in tunnels in Afghanistan, shouldn't we know what it would do? Perhaps the enemy is 'at the gates' and we need to use it in closer proximity to our own civilians than we would like - wouldn't you want to know what it would do?

      Fact is the military went the way of shrinking the bomb (that's right - making it smaller) rather than bigger. It turns out that many small warheads is much more effective than one large one. And they know that because of testing...

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    29. Re:test? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      I think the idea behind having really huge numbers of nukes is that even if an adversary destroys the majority of your nuke sites in a first strike, your response will still obliterate them.

      Alternatively, it could be justified by the idea that a adversary with a 90% effective missile defense system would still be obliterated in the case of a nuclear conflict.

      One more justification is to feed the congressional-military-industrial complex.

      Lastly, we have no idea how many nukes it takes to kill the aliens, if they come. The more the better.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    30. Re:test? by rickett81 · · Score: 1

      I always thought with nuclear weapons, that really after a certain size there were precious little point is making it more powerful

      Before ICBMs, the bombs had to be delivered by parachute - as shown in the video. This left a lot of error involved in the whole 'dropping' process. By making really big bombs, the bombs didn't have to hit their target but only get close. As long as they hit the correct city, their primary target would get hit too.

      Once ICBMs came out, it cut the error down dramatically, and thus cut down the size of the bombs. It has gotten to the point today where a small missile can take down a building with a very small explosion.
    31. Re:test? by darkmeridian · · Score: 1

      Making hydrogen bombs really big is not that hard after a certain point--just put more tritium into the device. It's also kind of pointless because you can't accurately drop that many of them onto a distant target. The way bunkers are built, such as into the sides of mountains, anything other than a direct hit would not destroy the facility. The harder and more useful feat is to make the device smaller so you can fit more into a reentry vehicle. For example, making a nuclear bomb with a oval-shaped mass of fissionable material is really hard, but allows for a warhead to fit into a smaller cone-shaped reentry vehicle. Then you can hit basically the same area again and again with nuclear bombs until you destroy it.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    32. Re:test? by kabocox · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      If you've gotta use weapons, make them conventional or there won't be much of a world left to argue over...yaknow?

      But what if you were some place like Israel and just interested in nuking your neighbors and not the entire world? We've not experimented with the idea of purposely setting off nukes entirely around a country to prevent invasion or immigration.

    33. Re:test? by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      The parachute was simply a drag chute to slow the bomb down to allow the aircraft to escape. Which incidentally, is why I thought they reduced the yeild - the aircraft could not escape a 100MT blast.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    34. Re:test? by florescent_beige · · Score: 1

      In "Dark Sun" by Richard Rhodes he mentioned Edward Teller's thoughts on 100-megaton class weapons. Teller's belief was that a bomb of this size would eject a 100-mile diameter plug of the Earth's atmosphere into space at escape velocity. Larger and larger bombs would not eject more atmosphere, but would eject the same amount at higher speeds. He also believed the 100 mile diameter area on the ground would be flattened.

      Some think this detonation actually frightened Washington and the Kremlin by showing that such apocalyptic effects where well within reach, and eventually led to the test ban treaty.
      --
      Equine Mammals Are Considerably Smaller
    35. Re:test? by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      Of course it is silly... but trying to get a group of human beings to be rational... well good luck with that.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    36. Re:test? by Overd0g · · Score: 1

      True, but to what end? Is the world really any safer if the U.S. has 1000 nukes vs 10000? No.

    37. Re:test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the lives of the people that would be vaporized without a chance ...

      Not to sound like a misanthropic PETA nutjob, but with 6.5 billion people on the planet,
      that's no longer an issue that anyone should concern themselves that much with.

      If we blew away a few billion people, that would actually be a good thing for almost
      everyone and everything else in the long run. Human overpopulation is THE problem.

      The trouble with nukes is not how many people they could kill, but all the incidental
      non-people deaths and environmental damage caused by them.

    38. Re:test? by bitrex · · Score: 1

      You're correct - it's assumed by many that the destructive power of a thermonuclear air blast scales linearly with the energy released, i.e. a 1 megaton weapon is 10 times as powerful as a 100 kiloton weapon. In fact it's more of a logarithmic relationship. Using ten 100 kiloton devices in a carefully arranged pattern over a "soft target" such as a city or military base would create much more damage than a single device detonated at the center, because it would increase the total area of maximum overpressure. Multiple warheads also have the advantage of redundancy; if some missiles fail on launch or during re-entry you still have that target covered to some degree.

      Lower yield, high accuracy warheads also make sense when used for surface attack on hardened targets such as missile silos. Reinforced silos can withstand huge overpressures and wouldn't be harmed by anything less than a direct hit, so surface blasts are needed, but surface explosions eject millions of tons of pulverized soil into the air which could cause "fratricide" to other incoming warheads. The problem can be mitigated somewhat by using smaller, more accurate warheads, and "walking them in" on a precise schedule across a missile field in a direction opposite the prevailing winds to avoid blast and debris damage.

      Getting slightly off topic - It was of course in the defender's interest to maximize the chance of a missile failing before it reached it's target, and defending missile fields was of paramount importance. ABM systems were one way, but were costly, controversial, and of limited proven effectiveness. There were several bizzare sounding methods of "passive missile defense" for silos floated in the 1970s and 80s, one of them involved driving thousands of steel rods several meters high into the ground for miles north of a missile field. To achieve high accuracy, Russian warheads had to come in at extremely shallow angles - it was believed that for the last few miles of a high accuracy Russian warhead's trajectory it would be only a few meters off the ground. It was hoped that the warhead would be ripped to shreds by the metal rods before it had a chance to detonate. A similar idea involved placing pits filled with explosives and covered with ball bearings north of a missile field that would be triggered by radar and achieve the same effect.

    39. Re:test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      India and Pakistan have nukes so that they can be used against each other.

    40. Re:test? by eggfoolr · · Score: 1

      Testing and observation is fundamental to science.

      It is what is missing from modern theoretical science and as the scientists slowly disappear up their own theoretical asses we are going to end up with nothing practical to show for it!

      Bring back big bangs, mega voltages and currents, huge magnetic fields and eddies... Tesla had the right idea.

      "If it doesn't make your hair stand on end, then its not science!"

    41. Re:test? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "The larger nuclear powers could cut their arsenals by a factor of 10, and they would still have several hundred nukes in service as a deterrent."

      They are not just a deterrent, they are a way to exterminate the enemy if deterrence fails.

      If deterrence fails, it is logical to completely wipe out the enemy population. That would serve as an example to others who might join the fray, and ensure there is no enemy to reconstitute.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    42. Re:test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, there is a point that if you cut too much you negate MAD. As scary as MAD is it works and prevents nuclear war. If you go below the point where MAD is ensured, you invite a surprise nuclear attack that wipes out the other sides inventory (or at least criples it to an acceptable level).

      So be careful when you assume that you can cut a lot. Going by active for the US 5000/10 puts it well below the practical limits for MAD. Sometime problems don't have happy solutions but at least it works.

    43. Re:test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > No clue how realistic this scenario is.

      Realistic enough.

      For a layman's illustration of the problem of fratricide, play DEFCON. (Best $20 you'll ever spend.)

      But there were tests of multiple simultaneous detonations which were hinted at in the sequels to Trinity and Beyond. (Nukes in Space and Atomic Journeys, if I recall correctly. Same director.) If the results had been declassified, Kuran would have talked about them (and shown the explosions :) in his films. I drew my own conclusions from that.

    44. Re:test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > Thats the Nevada Test Site and those are the results of the various tests.

      Speaking of which, if you ever get the chance to tour the site, do so. (There's minor paperwork.)

      Failing that, the Atomic Museum in Vegas is just a mile or so from the Strip and open to the public, no appointment required. Definitely the geekiest thing (and the furthest $10 will ever go) in Vegas. There's enough stuff to keep the kids interested, but it's primarily a museum built by, and for, engineers.

  14. 1961? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing says "happy anniversary slashdot" like 46 year old news. Our other top story, an Anonymous Coward links to wikipedia's October 30th page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_30.

  15. Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It was a show. One could say one of the most spectacular special effects ever made.

    That baby weighed about 30 tons. The Tupulev that carried it to its destination had its bomb bays open and some fuel tanks removed to fit that thing somehow into its belly. Though it could be carried anywhere within Russia, an intercontinental strike with it was impossible.

    No, ICBMs couldn't carry it either. By far not. The R9, which just came into production in 61, could carry less than 2 tons.

    The idea behind the Tsar (besides proving who has the biggest) was to compensate for inaccurate targeting. The goal was a bomb that could level a town even if dropped miles away (because the bomber was about to be shot down, or because the pilot had better things to do, like avoiding being shot down, than aiming accurately). It was quickly abandoned when ICBM targeting became accurate enough to ensure you could level whatever target you want to strike. And MIRVs offer much more destruction per ton carried.

    In its core, it was a propaganda stunt. Another chapter in the dick-comparing story between Russia and the USA.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      was to compensate for inaccurate targeting.

      So you're saying that "almost" only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

    2. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by slap20 · · Score: 0

      Cool Toy???

      In Soviet Russia, even the toys have Nuclear Fallout!!

      -Eric-

      --
      ~Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder~
    3. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still went to show that Sakharov was a better mathematician and knew more about reaction physics than the US at the time. We didn't think that this kind of enhanced reaction was viable.

      And I guess we'll need this if we ever have to dissuade an asteroid from landing on us...

    4. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

      "Though it could be carried anywhere within Russia, an intercontinental strike with it was impossible"

      You're right, though I suspect it could have made a real mess of either London or Paris, both also nuclear powers and 'enemies' of the Sovs. at the time...

    5. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Nephrite · · Score: 1

      >Another chapter in the dick-comparing story between Russia and the USA.

      So, finally it seems the Russians have a bigger dick!

    6. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Alioth · · Score: 1

      The idea of the Tsar bomba was not to level the town, but level pretty much the entire country. If a 100MT bomb was dropped over central England, people in London who were exposed to the flash would receive 3rd degree burns. A single bomb of that size can more or less incapacitate most of a European country.

      However, it was entirely impractical - the aircraft probably wouldn't get much beyond the border of the Iron Curtain before getting shot down, and the radioactive "blowback", given the prevailing westerly flows, would be back over the Warsaw pact countries and Soviet Union.

    7. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Ours · · Score: 1

      Typical Russian propaganda. If you go to the Kremlim for a visit. You'll see the Tsar cannon. A big ass cannon old that was probably never fired but showed any would be attacker that they meant business.

      --
      "You superiour intellect is no match for our puny weapons" - The Simpsons
    8. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      But the dick comparing ended with both agreeing their dicks "were really very large" and so "it might be a good idea to put them away."

      While some war nymphos were disapointed everyone else was pretty happy about that.

      So, go dick contests!

    9. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, their's was a bit bigger, but ended up being a one-shot wonder...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    10. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      I think the biggest problem with Tsar Bomba was that it required extensive modifications to the Tu-95 bomber just to carry the bomb, and the bomb became an external store, which caused all kinds of problems in terms of aerodynamic drag. Remember, the most powerful nuclear bomb ever fielded by the USAF (the Mk. 17 bomb with a yield of circa 20 MT) was designed right from the start around the bomb bay dimensions of the B-52 bomber.

    11. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by famebait · · Score: 1

      Then came Bush, who likes to take it out again anyway, wave it about, and fuck anyone and anything on his own volition, whether any comparing was going on or not.

      --
      sudo ergo sum
    12. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Would you have bothered to destroy Prague with your biggest gun? Noooo, that thing had to fall on Washington or not at all. It's a matter of prestige.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, if there's nobody who threatens to fuck you if you fuck with someone else, you don't have to cover your ass.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Yep it was useless.
      It was too big in yield and size to be useful. Even if you where going to drop it on say Paris a Bear with one of them would be just to easy of a target.
      A nice small 10 or even a 5 MT weapon would be good enough.
      There was a plan to use the N1 to carry it.
      Of course Russia did look at the idea of a real doomsday weapon system based on this bomb.
      The idea was that they build an even bigger version and put them in ships along with a good amount of iron I believe. The Ships would have sensor on them to detect radiation. If they detected that a nuclear war had started they would blow up and spread fallout over the planet.
      The USSR decided that it was a "bad plan".
      The who has a bigger bomb was actually a contest that the US dropped out of very early in the game.
      The US realized that super big bombs where not as useful as smaller bombs places closer to the target.
      All you have to do see proof of this is look at the size and yields of the Minuteman and Polaris missiles. There are very few targets that you need a multi-megaton weapon to destroy. Trust me a "small" 100 kt weapon in the middle of LA, Washington, New York, London, Paris, Moscow, or Berlin is well into the range of "good enough".

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    15. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      I thought it would have significant use as an instrument of national blackmail. Just invade your enemy's country and install one hardened bunker in each major city with one of these inside. Set it up for remote detonation and let everyone know that it will go off if you tamper with it or if your demands are not met.

      Then withdraw your forces and run the country by remote control.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    16. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by DrJimbo · · Score: 1

      Then the first US hydrogen bomb was also a toy and useless as a weapon since it weighed 80 tons.

      --
      We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
      -- Anais Nin
    17. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      With all the 'dick' analogies, you forgot to mention that Bush actually hired a "Dick". And in the strategy sense of it all, who better to get along than a Bush and a Dick?

    18. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      Tsar Bomba is scary, but MIRVs scare the pants off of me.

      Take this picture, and its caption for instance.

      Human civilization will end permanently on the day that these are used. If that doesn't scare the crap out of you, I don't know what will.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    19. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, after an average war the cities are usually in ruins anyway. What would keep me from building the infrastructure outside the blast areas and flip you the bird? Not to mention that for remote controlled detonation, your signal has to reach the bomb, which is quite easy to disallow.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    20. Re:Cool toy, but useless as a weapon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > Typical Russian propaganda. If you go to the Kremlim for a visit. You'll see the Tsar cannon. A big ass cannon old that was probably never fired but showed any would be attacker that they meant business.

      Actually, "typical Russian engineer's sense of humor" (or any engineer's sense of humor). You're right -- the Tsar cannon was never fired, and it was also thoroughly impractical as a weapon. The only part you missed is that the Tsar Bomba was named after it, deliberately, as a tongue-in-cheek tribute to weapons so supremely over-the-top cool... that they weren't worth using.

  16. Geewhiz numbers by truckaxle · · Score: 1

    1% of the power output of the Sun for 39 nanoseconds
    While that is an impressive number why not just say "The power output of the Sun for .39 nanoseconds" or is 39 nanoseconds the duration of the nuclear reaction?
    1. Re:Geewhiz numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...because it produced 1% of the power output of the sun for .39 nanoseconds too? It achieved a peak output of 1% of the sun, a peak which lasted for 39 nanoseconds. The only link to the length of the explosion is that 39 nanoseconds has to be shorter.

    2. Re:Geewhiz numbers by pesho · · Score: 1

      Nah, 0.39 nanoseconds sounds kinda small. 390 picoseconds will do a better job.

    3. Re:Geewhiz numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think what they were trying to say that for 39 nanoseconds, it was producing 1% of the power of the sun?

      Or I'm totally incorrect.

    4. Re:Geewhiz numbers by csirac · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because the statement that it would be equivalent to "The power output of the Sun for .39 nanoseconds" is misleading.

      Don't get distracted by the 39ns figure. Power is an instantaneous quantity - it is a rate at which energy is transmitted. They are saying that the bomb sustained a level of power (rate of energy) output and held it there for a period of time - 39 ns - that approached 1% of the sun.

      I repeat: 39ns is just the period of time that the power level peaked for. They calculated that the amplitude of the power peak itself, was equivalent to 1% the power output of the sun.

      We don't care about how long the peak lasted for, the 39ns, unless you start integrating power over time as you just did, in which case you're comparing a quantity of energy, rather than a rate of energy output. Yes, I suppose you could say that 39ns @ 1% sun power is equivalent to an amount of energy produced by the sun in 0.39ns, but that's not the interesting number here, because we could similarly integrate just about any huge power source over a long enough interval of time (hours, days, years, whatever) to come up with "the same amount of energy output by the sun over 39 ns".

      So the interesting number is in this case, yes, that the actual instantaneous absolute power output of the bomb approached 1% of that of the sun, albeit for only 39 ns.

      Quite remarkable...

    5. Re:Geewhiz numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite remarkable, and not at all believable. The sun's far more massive and using the same nuclear reactions.

    6. Re:Geewhiz numbers by sploxx · · Score: 1

      Quite remarkable...
      Yes, and one wonders if a set of such devices in outer space couldn't be used to do interstellar communication, "morse code"-like. The power spike should be easily visible throughout the milkyway, maybe someone who did the math can elaborate on that?

    7. Re:Geewhiz numbers by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Quite remarkable, and not at all believable. The sun's far more massive and using the same nuclear reactions.

      Uh, just because the same stoichiometric fusion reactions are occuring does not in any way shape or form mean that they are in fact the same kind of reactor. They're just about as different as can be.

      Nuclear bombs -- both fission and fusion -- work by compressing the reaction mass (usually via explosives, in the case of fusion devices using a fission explosion!) into the smallest space possible so that not only does a super-critical reaction occur, it occurs so rapidly that nearly all of the nuclear material reacts before the energy created by the reaction blows the bomb apart and the remaining nuclear material is too far apart to react.

      The sun sustains the pressure for fusion to occur via gravity, while there is a constant outward pressure from the fusion itself, which slows the reaction. The sun is anything but the fastest, most thorough fusion reaction possible. Rather the opposite, it's actually burning it's fuel very slowly. Which is very good for us, because we'd like the sun to be around for a long time.

      Clearly if the sun consumed nearly all of its fuel in the span of 390 picoseconds, nobody would ever talk about the wimpy Tsar Bomb test explosion again... because we wouldn't be around any more to talk about it.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    8. Re:Geewhiz numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, you need to get out more!

    9. Re:Geewhiz numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do you have any other links for the video? bandwidth limit has been exceeded...

  17. Is this... by theReal-Hp_Sauce · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Something that we, as a human race are supposed to be proud of? Why do we care? Can't we evolve past this need to make the biggest "exploding" thing? I shake my head in horror.

    -hps

    1. Re:Is this... by sg_oneill · · Score: 1

      We could fire them off in space and make the biggest craziest fuck-off sized fireworks ever.

      And if any pesky little green men have any funny ideas, well they'd sure be thinking twice

      "Man. Those hairless monkeys on planet Terra sure are fucking psycho. Lets... uh.. invade Alpha Centuri instead. The man-crabs there have just built ANOTHER hippy commune"

      Shame it'd nuke all the satelites with all that stray EMP radiation.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    2. Re:Is this... by Don+Sample · · Score: 1

      It was an historic moment. For what may have been the only time, the Soviet Union decided "Okay, that weapon was too big."

    3. Re:Is this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While you shake in horror, I'll be busy wiping the jizz off my pants at the idea of what we could have done with this bomb in Iraq - Got an uprising in Fallujah? Drop this baby on them and watch the ragheads burn - now *that's* a Kodak moment!

    4. Re:Is this... by Faylone · · Score: 1

      And, y'know...US.

    5. Re:Is this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to go to Alpha Centauri now.

  18. The biggest bomb detonated by stox · · Score: 1

    Not the biggest built. Rumor has it that both the USSR and the USA built 1GT weapons in the mid 1960's. It really doesn't take that much to expand a conventional Hydrogen warhead to a tertiary. Both were built, "Just in case." I don't think we'll ever know just how close we came to vaporizing each other.

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
    1. Re:The biggest bomb detonated by timmarhy · · Score: 1

      personally i don't think it's as close as some would like to dramatise. it's easy to talk bullshit about launching a nuke and vaporising an entire country. it's a whole lot more serious when it's for real. I doubt anyone on either side out have been willing to attack before the other. even then the nukes would have been a last resort.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    2. Re:The biggest bomb detonated by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      I don't think we'll ever know just how close we came to vaporizing each other. Is it possible to get closer than we did with this?
    3. Re:The biggest bomb detonated by totally+bogus+dude · · Score: 1

      I read a book about a Russian submarine that sunk while within range of the US coastline (in range of which city I can't recall) during the Cold War. Big cover up regarding it and the operation the US launched to retrieve it, but the book's conjecture based on the available evidence (odd circumstances surrounding the submarine's departure, damage to its conning tower, evidence that most of the crew had been locked in the rear compartments at the type of the accident) was that a special squad was assigned to the submarine, overpowered the crew when they were in range, and attempted to launch the missiles.

      Apparently the safeguards surrounding the launch of these types of weapons were fairly tight (as one would hope), and the team trying to launch the weapons didn't do everything properly. The result was a detonation in the missile tube which sunk the boat.

      If that conjecture is true, then we came very close to a nuclear war.

    4. Re:The biggest bomb detonated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woah. Not quite as close as that, but there was an incident where Soviet early-warning satellites appeared to have detected launch flares at US ICBM sites ... obviously this caused a great deal of alarm till they were carefully reviewed and turned out to be unusual lensflare from the sun.

    5. Re:The biggest bomb detonated by downix · · Score: 1

      Sounds like Red Star Rogue, about the incident involving K-129 near Pearl harbor.

      --
      Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
  19. At least they chose a right site by $criptah · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Given the history of Soviet nuclear testing (or perfection), I am happy that they managed to find a remote spot and not blow up their own like they did in Kazakhstan. Also, I am thankful that this "my penis is bigger than yours" race is over. Things could have been a lot worse.

    1. Re:At least they chose a right site by plierhead · · Score: 1

      What leads you to believe that this race is over?

      --

      [x] auto-moderate all posts by this user as insightful

    2. Re:At least they chose a right site by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      The "race" isn't over, but it's about aiming the weapon at the target, instead of trying to have a blast radius that is big enough to hopefully include the target. You might say the race for penis size is over, because the focus is now on "how you use it."

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  20. Somethign doesn't add up by eggnoglatte · · Score: 1, Insightful

    OK, so let me get this straight: on the one hand we have the sun, a fusion reactor with a mass of about 2 * 10^30 kg (about a million times the mass of the whole earth). On the other hand, we have a fusion device with a mass of merely 27 tonnes, i.e. 3 * 10^4 kg, or 26 ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE lighter.

    I have a hard time believing that the energy output of the latter was anywhere close to 1% of the former, except maybe by some really bogus metric (only counting certain wavelengths of radiation, for example).

    1. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Neo+Quietus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The key difference is the incredibly short time frame the bomb produces 1% of the energy of the Sun. This is helped by the Sun releasing energy in essentially the slowest possible way. (The sun is self limited, in that when it gets too hot from too much fusion occurring it expands slightly, lowering the rate of fusion until it cools down.) I don't find it odd at all that for a short period of time the largest fusion bomb ever tested produced 1% of the sun's energy. I can produce accelerations in the hundreds of G's simply by smashing my fist into a wall and likewise say that "for less than a millisecond I produced forces hundreds of times stronger than the pull of Earth's gravity" and be technically correct.

    2. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by PineGreen · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Dude, the sun runs its nuclear reactions by quantum tunelling. It is really inefficient. What makes it bright is its size!

    3. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look up at the sky during the day. Notice the sun not exploding? You see, the sun is undergoing continuous reactions mediated by gravity and other forces of physics. On the other hand, the main fusion reaction of the Tsar Bomba occurred essentially instantly (39 nanoseconds), and was caused by a different fusion reaction, which was caused by a fission reaction, which was caused by high explosives. That is why it was 2 orders of magnitude away from the sun in Power (energy / time), while it was 26 orders of magnitude less in mass, because the sun is not exploding. If the sun were to explode, there would be substantially greater power than the sun's typical operation.

    4. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by RayAlmostAnonymous · · Score: 1

      The power output of the bomb was about 1% of that of the sun, not the energy output. As the Slashdot article says this was only for 39 nanoseconds. The energy involved was much less than 1% of that of the sun, it was just emitted in a very short time.

    5. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By far the greatest portion of the Sun's mass is not involved in fusion reactions at any given time, it is merely dead weight providing gravitational containment and heat extraction. This should be obvious, as the Sun has a lifetime of many billions of years. The lifetime of the Tsar Bomba, however, was a mere 39 nanoseconds. In that timeframe it is possible to achieve a significant fraction of the Sun's power output.

    6. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by frying_fish · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Given the fact the explosion created power for such a short amount of time it is not inconceivable that its power output was approaching 1% of the sun. It would not be able to sustain that power, and given it was a fission reaction which for each reaction releases ~ 200MeV of energy, compared to ~ 13MeV for a fusion reaction, you can create a lot more energy (usually in the form of heat) from a short term fission than you can fusion.

      Also as many others are stating, you're probably confusing power with energy, the energy output won't be 1% of the sun, but the power output for that short time could well approach it.

    7. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by BlackPignouf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      From qalculate:

      sigma*(5778K)^4*4*pi*(1.392E9m)^2*29ns*1% to J
      = 446.3 PJ

      ans/c^2
      = 4.966 kg

      Conclusion: maybe, maybe not.
      You "just" need to convert 4.966kg in pure energy in 29ns!

    8. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The big difference is that the sun can sustain the reaction for 10 billion years.

    9. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consider this: The Sun's power output per unit mass is a couple of orders of magnitude less than the power output per unit mass of your own body. The Sun is in this regard not an efficient converter between energy forms, compared to artificial devices and other phenomena common on Earth. And certainly not compared to uncommon things like the bomb in question. The Sun achieves its very large power output simply by being incredibly huge.

    10. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, in case of the Tsar Bomba, 97% of the energy output came from the fussion reaction. The fission reaction is used just to kickstart the fussion.

    11. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The sun fuses its hydrogen in 10 billions years, whereas the bomb last only 39 ns. That's 24 orders of magnitude shorter.

    12. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by tyrione · · Score: 1

      In theory.

    13. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Alioth · · Score: 1

      The sun's nuclear reactions are in actual fact incredibly feeble. 1 kilogram of matter in the Sun's core generates only 6 *microwatts* of energy. By contrast, 1 kilogram of human body generates over one watt of heat, orders of magnitude more.

      But the sun is very very large, and has lots and lots of matter at its core fusing away - so even with the feeble reaction rate an a per kilogram basis, because there's so much matter there, it adds up to quite a large total.

    14. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1

      If the sun were made of a mixture of lithium and deuterium like an H-bomb instead of the normal hydrogen it actually contains, and its internal temperature were greatly increased to those of an H-bomb reaction, then your comparison based purely on mass might be valid. In that scenario, the sun would also blow itself apart in nanoseconds and have a power output proportional to the mass difference.

    15. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the summary:
      Its detonation released energy equivalent to approximately 1% of the power output of the Sun for 39 nanoseconds of its detonation.


      OK, so let me get this straight: on the one hand we have the sun, a fusion reactor with a mass of about 2 * 10^30 kg (about a million times the mass of the whole earth). On the other hand, we have a fusion device with a mass of merely 27 tonnes, i.e. 3 * 10^4 kg, or 26 ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE lighter.

      The lifespan of the sun is estimated as being somewhere between 9 and 10 billion years. So 39 nanoseconds is something like 10^(-25) of the lifespan of the sun. Looks like the numbers aren't so far out...

    16. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but thats not true. (at least to my knowledge)
      The Tzar bomb was a 3-stage design.
      Fission trigger, internal fustsion, plus absorption cladding that gets "breed" up to fissable material.
      Thats the reason it was so damn heavy: there were many tons of Uranium around the bomb, which capture escaping neutrons from the inner reaction and produce a significant part of the energy after a few 100 ns.
      Thats also the reason why those bombs never went off afterwards: Its a real waste of material, and creates _massive_ amounts of fallout.

      Your 3% figure for fission would make sense if it were only for the primer (not counting the 3rd stage)...

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    17. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      Sorry, i remembered that wrong.
      I discriped the "big" version of the tzar bomb, but the one really detonated was downsized and had no functional 3rd stage.

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    18. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by dj245 · · Score: 1

      I can produce accelerations in the hundreds of G's simply by smashing my fist into a wall and likewise say that "for less than a millisecond I produced forces hundreds of times stronger than the pull of Earth's gravity" and be technically correct.

      Sure, but you're forgetting that gravity is a very very weak force. You have the weight of the entire earth, all the rock, all the oceans, the metal core, pulling you towards it. The earth is so large that unless you are very high in the atmosphere it appears flat. And yet most people can easilly jump 2 feet or more off the surface.

      Go on, try to separate a couple of particles tied together with the weak or strong nuclear force. Its not easy, and only a couple of particles are in play here. Gravity is pathetically weak in comparison.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    19. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by flghtmstr1 · · Score: 1

      I'm not usually one to pick nits, but I sincerely doubt "most people" can jump two feet off the Earth's surface. At least not where I'm from (can anyone take a guess...)

    20. Re:Somethign doesn't add up by jCaT · · Score: 1

      I don't find it odd at all that for a short period of time the largest fusion bomb ever tested produced 1% of the sun's energy. I can produce accelerations in the hundreds of G's simply by smashing my fist into a wall and likewise say that "for less than a millisecond I produced forces hundreds of times stronger than the pull of Earth's gravity" and be technically correct.

      While your statement about gravity is true, it's not much of a valid comparison. Lets turn it around, shall we?

      It took the most powerful human creation ever to produce one hundredth of the energy the sun puts out in 39 nanoseconds. In a given day, it would take 45 quadrillion of these bombs to output the same amount of energy. The statement is more a testament to the unbelievable power of the sun, and the relative smallness of what our own accomplishments represent compared to that.
  21. My wife respectfully disagrees by ChePibe · · Score: 1, Funny

    "The Tsar Bomba qualifies as the single most powerful device ever utilized throughout the history of humanity."

    I believe my wife would argue that the cheap freezer chili burritos occasionally eaten by her husband would easily defeat any such device.

    And I'm pretty sure the cats agree, too... how my wife puts up with me, I shall never understand.

  22. Either that, or the bat-bomb by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

    Another chapter in the ridiculous history of 20th century warfare was the development of bat-mounted bombs for use against the Japanese - read all about it.

    The interesting thing is that they were actually looking to be reasonably effective - so much so that they destroyed the testing facility. Unfortunately for the Japanese and the program, the atomic bomb was perfected before frozen bats could be deployed for use in warfare.

    There is no limit to the insane plans the world's armed forces will try.

    --
    Read Pynchon.
    1. Re:Either that, or the bat-bomb by onepoint · · Score: 1

      Well out of all the "weird" plans, this one is my favorite. Why, because is works so well, and based on historical data, a large perecentage of japan's buildings are made out of wood. Seemed like a simple but effective idea. I would have perfered it over the A-bomb.

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
  23. Re:Thats nonsense by SetupWeasel · · Score: 1

    Does that make K-Fed the father of all bombs? If that is the case, are we really safer if he has custody?

  24. Somebody by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Funny

    set up us the Tsara Bomba!

    1. Re:Somebody by MarkRose · · Score: 1

      To suck all the lameness out of your joke, I'll need my Tsar Roomba. BRB.

      --
      Be relentless!
  25. If 1/100 of the Sun suddenly appeared on Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My sense of scale must be off; I would've thought 1% of the Sun's power could instantly reduce the Earth to a barren rock. Surely the Sun is well over 100 times larger than the Earth?

  26. Obligatory... by RudeIota · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Russia, bombs d....

    BOOoOoooOoooOOOooom!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously though, 1% of the energy of the sun at any given moment is a difficult number to believe... I didn't RTFA (not that it would probably matter anyhow), but is this number REALLY an accurate estimation?

    --
    Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
  27. Remember.. by DriftingDutchman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Don't try this at home, kids..

  28. This is kinda old... by Paktu · · Score: 1
    1. Re:This is kinda old... by NIckGorton · · Score: 3, Funny

      As is my age, however I celebrate birthdays once annually. Have a look at the date the thing was detonated.

      Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear big-effing-stupid-violent-explody-thingy. Happy birthday to you!

      And I suspect Digg and /. might actually have repeat articles in another year.

    2. Re:This is kinda old... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear big-effing-stupid-violent-explody-thingy. Happy birthday to you!

      This is the exact song I sing to my wife. Of course, I get kicked in the nuts for it.

    3. Re:This is kinda old... by NIckGorton · · Score: 1

      That's why I married a guy. No matter how big the fight is, you won't ever get kicked in the nuts. Admittedly, there is less to fight about: "Hey, you wanna order a pizza, play video games, then have sex?" "Schweet, me too!"

      Nick

  29. I for one welcome ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    our new Russian overlords ...

  30. Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by flajann · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You gotta love nuclear bombs. It'll vaporise you no matter who you are. An old grandma, a kid playing in her yard, a dad leaving for work, a mom washing the dishes. A student graduating from college. A bird in a tree. A doctor saving a life. All gone in quite literally a flash.

    Really and honestly, what purpose can a 50-megatonne thermonuclear bomb really serve, except to say, "My power to vaporise millions of innocent people is greater than your power..."? While perhaps impressive from a scientific point of view, there is no practical use for nukes other than to annihilate civilization as we know it.

    Yes, leave it to the governments of the world to protect us and keep us "safe". "Safe" as in safely glowing in your grave.

    1. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by maxume · · Score: 1

      My favorite part about your diatribe is that this is exactly how every world leader since Truman has thought about nuclear weapons. I mean, you have noticed that only those first two were used on people right?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by Dausha · · Score: 1

      "Yes, leave it to the governments of the world to protect us and keep us "safe". "Safe" as in safely glowing in your grave."

      Um, how can I be glowing in my grave if I've been vaporized?

      --
      What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
    3. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1
      You gotta love nuclear bombs. It'll vaporise you no matter who you are.

      "We will all go together when we go ..." - Tom Lehrer

    4. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody is innocent, eternal damnation for everyone!

    5. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You gotta love nuclear bombs. It'll vaporise you no matter who you are. An old grandma, a kid playing in her yard, a dad leaving for work, a mom washing the dishes. A student graduating from college. A bird in a tree. A doctor saving a life. All gone in quite literally a flash.

      While what you say is true, it also applies just as well to wars and bombs in general. You think the pilot of the plane just shot down didn't just get out of college? Or the guy just shot in the trench wasn't someone's dad? Or the bomb that destroys the factory didn't just destroy the house with the grandma and kid right next to it?

      I think it's the gone in a flash part that's one of the more horrifying things about nuclear weapons. Like there's just one big button to push to destroy so much. But humans have been getting farther and farther away from the people they kill for quite some time now, so this is more like an evolutionary step. Robots will be the next one.

    6. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      there is no practical use for nukes other than to annihilate civilization as we know it.

      You've missed the point.

      The purpose of nuclear warheads it to preserve civilization as WE know it, by annihilating civilization as the people in THE BAD GUY COUNTRIES know it.

    7. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by Richard+Frost · · Score: 1

      You gotta love nuclear bombs. It'll vaporise you no matter who you are. An old grandma, a kid playing in her yard, a dad leaving for work, a mom washing the dishes. A student graduating from college. A bird in a tree. A doctor saving a life. All gone in quite literally a flash.

      So wait, you're saying that nukes are as bad as the RIAA?

    8. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      In modern war, the entire economy is used to produce the tanks, ships, and guns the soldiers use. There are no innocents.

      This is the reason the major bombing targets in WWII were factories (and the "innocent" people manning them), not troops.

      This same justification is used by Al Queda for attacking New York. Our entire economy, including the old grannies working as Wal-Mart greeters, produces the wealth Israel uses to buy the tanks and soldiers used for maintaining control of contested territories.

      I wish it weren't true, but there really are no innocents in modern warfare.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    9. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by wattrlz · · Score: 1

      Don't most conventional bombs have that sort of indescriminance?

    10. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by donscarletti · · Score: 1

      It'll vaporise you no matter who you are. ... A doctor saving a life. All gone in quite literally a flash.
      Just a minor quibble, he wouldn't really be saving a life if the patient was about to get nuked.
      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    11. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      Who told you that the governments of the world are there to protect you and keep you safe?

      That's what YOUR government is for, to protect you from other governments.

      And enough with the prose. Cities have been wiped out to the last man, woman, and child before. Now we have the option to use nukes.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
    12. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by nycsubway · · Score: 1

      With destruction comes rebirth. Everything we created as a civilization came from us using or destroying something else, be it a tree, the earth, animals, or water.

      In a completely peaceful world with no disease or problems... what will be left for humans to accomplish? They'll be nothing left to fix or improve upon.

      Nuclear winter is not a good thing, but humans will be quite bored if everything goes perfectly well and everyone is peaceful. Utopia is a not a good thing either.

    13. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      Well, its not cost efficient.
      All the "wholesale slaughters" that have happend up to know were done very low tech.
      Whether its by using pesticides, or ordering 100 thousands of manchetes in china for your people the cleanse the country (like done in Rhuanda), the real mass murderings are always close and personal.

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    14. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by Dread_ed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would rather be vaporised than covered in napalm or thermite. I would also opt for vaporization over beheading or being skinned alive.

      At different times in history, all of the methods of destruction I mention abouve have been applied indiscriminately to kill "innocent people."

      Lets face it, nukes really are the kinder and gentler weapon of war.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    15. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I would rather be vaporised than covered in napalm or thermite. I would also opt for vaporization over beheading or being skinned alive.
      > Lets face it, nukes really are the kinder and gentler weapon of war.

      That would be true, if all the victims of a nuke were vaporised. Hiroshima and Nagasaki showed this is just not the reality.

    16. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by Hornes · · Score: 0

      there is no practical use for nukes

      To the contrary! Nukes may be used for:

      - Destroying asteroids hurtling towards the ground
      - Restarting the stopped core of the Earth
      - Eliminating alien motherships
      - Fulfilling your wish that all living humans were Australian
      - Canceling global warming with nuclear winter
      - Glorifying postal workers
      - Providing a low cost alternative to quarantine (can use vacuum bomb as well)
      - Spurring endless moral debates
    17. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by geekoid · · Score: 1

      except when someone gets beheaded, it doesn't pollute kilometers of earth. I would rather be killed painfully rather then something quick that kills others.

      For the record, I would rather not do either.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    18. Re:Wholesale slaughter of millions of people by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, slow death by radiation-related sickness and birth defects are kind and gentle, I guess. IHBT

  31. but this is war.. by bronney · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But war doesn't have to make sense and it doesn't have to be green. Bombs can also be remotely detonated. World War IV will be fought with sticks and stone buddy.

  32. Yield was reduced from 100 to 50Mton by viking80 · · Score: 1

    This is an interesting point. It is reasonable to assume this bomb was a Teller-Ulam design http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teller-Ulam_design If the uranium tamper is replaced with lead, the overall efficiency is cut in half. The fallout, however, is cut by a lot more, and is relatively low.
    That Soviet union, knowing their desire for showing off their power, choose to do this, is pretty good.

    --
    don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    1. Re:Yield was reduced from 100 to 50Mton by AVee · · Score: 1

      That Soviet union, knowing their desire for showing off their power, choose to do this, is pretty good. In Soviet Russia you are known for your desire to show off your powers.

      Yes, it is ontopic. The image we have of the USSR in that respect is pretty much the same as the image the people overthere have of the USA. Think about that for a while before making statements like this one.
    2. Re:Yield was reduced from 100 to 50Mton by viking80 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I am "the people over there"...

      --
      don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    3. Re:Yield was reduced from 100 to 50Mton by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      If the uranium tamper is replaced with lead, the overall efficiency is cut in half. The fallout, however, is cut by a lot more, and is relatively low. That Soviet union, knowing their desire for showing off their power, choose to do this, is pretty good.

      Well, I imagine they didn't particularly want to irradiate vast amounts of their own territory. Plus, if the final fission stage had gone ahead and Tsar had been a 100Mt detonation, the bomber that dropped it would never have reached a safe distance in time. Even in Soviet Russia, it's hard to find volunteers for that kind of mission :-)

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  33. I modded you flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next time, don't be such a pussy.

  34. Would it fit in a shipping container? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    an intercontinental strike with it was impossible. Not quite true.

    Put it in a container, hide it among thousands of others and have the documents say it's being shipped to Washington. Attach a GPS and when it gets within a mile or two of destination it can detonate.

    Hell. Just the threat of it would effectively shut down international trade.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Would it fit in a shipping container? by freedom_india · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is the Secret Service. Your location has been mapped and the new AG has been informed to issue a warantless tap on yourself, landline, mobile, home, work.
      Meanwhile Gitmo has a warm seat being prepared for your arrival.
      The dogs there have not been biting anyone ever since the congress started questioning the poor canines.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    2. Re:Would it fit in a shipping container? by riker1384 · · Score: 1

      Attach a GPS and when it gets within a mile or two of destination it can detonate. Yep. The only difficult part is sending the GPS satellites back in time to the 1960s.
    3. Re:Would it fit in a shipping container? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      Forget the GPS and add a 6 month timer. Just make sure you don't put a return address on it.

      --
      Deleted
  35. Nuclear weapons get the populace involved by Colin+Smith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the population know they're going to be vaporised when the government goes to war, they'll become far more concerned with the politicians preponderance for going to war in the first place.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Nuclear weapons get the populace involved by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      hence the multitude of "little" wars throught the latter half of the 20th century.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    2. Re:Nuclear weapons get the populace involved by MrSteveSD · · Score: 1

      It would be far better if the politicians had to worry about being vaporised. Instead it's the other way around. The politicians are the only ones who get a shelter (unless you live in a country that cares about it's population, like Switzerland).

    3. Re:Nuclear weapons get the populace involved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the population know they're going to be vaporised when the government goes to war, they'll become far more concerned with the politicians preponderance for going to war in the first place.

      Only if the population can do something about it, and only if your religion doesn't say that killing yourself while killing your enemies is a good thing.

    4. Re:Nuclear weapons get the populace involved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've come to think it's the other way around.

      The nice thing is, that the bureaucrats, politicians and generals who are too important to see the risky part of any conventional war, are automatically included in the risky part in case of nuclear war.

      And really, the nice little 'underground hotels' are just a convenient delay to the inevitable. One planet, after all....

  36. Power output? by Panitz · · Score: 1

    By power output are they refering to the power radiated out into space, the power we receive at Earth, or the actual power output of the sun's reactions??

    All these number are drastically different. The surface temperature of the sun is ~5000K (I think) whilst the core temperature is something like ~15,000,000K. Obviously temperature is only a measure of heat energy but the output at the core is clearly higher than at the surface. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the output of the sun is actually only the core where the fusion of hydrogen is going on. This energy must then pass through lots of 'rubbish' in the photosphere to be the energy we see as output at earth...

    Anyway, which value are we talking about here because there are about 4 orders of magnitude difference here, in temperature. The pressure at the core would suggest that there is a huge difference in energy released per unit time

    Additionally, I cant remember the name of the film (a recent one) but does this not show that we can't make the sun 'start working again' as they like to tell us. Nor the core of the earth for that matter (The Core).. I know they are only films, but it fills the less informed population with stupid ideas or what science is, how things work and what we can do. A pet hate of mine, and I'm sure many others.

    1. Re:Power output? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The sun is thought to be in equilibrium. It takes a long time for the energy generated in the core to get out, on the order of 10,000 years. The equilibrium has been somewhat verified by measurements of the neutrino flux, which gives you the power generated in the core 10 minutes ago. I say somewhat because the neutrino flux measured was only the high energy flux which has to be related to the power ouput with some pretty complicated models. A measurement of the low energy neutrinos would be nice because it would more directly verify the power generated in the sun.

      If the power was not all eventually making its way out, the sun would be getting hotter.

    2. Re:Power output? by Panitz · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I see what you are saying. Heat is of course only one type of energy, or flow of energy.

      Doe's all the energy have to get out? Will some energy not be used for endothermic reactions or converted into other forms of energy. The sun wouldn't necessarly get hotter, or would it?

      I quesiton myself too much I feel

  37. Trivia for nerds by PietjeJantje · · Score: 1

    Trivia for nerds, but no news. In fact, this link has been submitted a dozen times to sites such as digg and reddit. Despite the fact it is definitely not news. But don't let that stop you from posting all kinds of interesting articles from wikipedia. After all, there is no wikipedia site people can go to and read trivia. Oh wait..

  38. We'll meet again, meet again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Love the bomba!

  39. Absolutelly ... by yvesdandoy · · Score: 0

    NOTHING to be proud of.

    I don't think it was a brilliant day for mankind at all.

  40. Re: "Loving Earth" by Neuticle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bravo, AC, Bravo. I was going to say much the same thing, albeit maybe less bluntly. However, I would add this to the above:

    Everyone I have heard espouse the "loving Earth/Gaia" bit lives a comfortable, relatively modern life. Mother Earth loves you plenty when you have electricity, running water and stores full of food.

    Take that away and get real close to Mother Earth. I've been there: Mother Earth may still love you, but the bitch will try her best to kill you at every opportunity.

    --
    "Cheeze it!" - Bender
  41. Grandpa of all bombs? by garompeta · · Score: 1

    Yeah, considering that the Russian "The Father of All Bombs" (pun from the American "Mother of All Bombs") had "ONLY" 44MT, then this Tsar Bomba must be the "Grandpa of All Bombs".
    If that is true, America is going to start thinking how to rebrand their future bombs, if we keep going this way we will start hearing "Arthritic grandpa of All Bombs", "Fossil great-grandpa of All Bombs"... etc...

    1. Re:Grandpa of all bombs? by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      The "crotchety old man who lives across the street and yells at us to stay off his lawn" of all bombs.

  42. "Jesus Christ" are the only words for this by master_p · · Score: 1

    Nuclear bombs could really destroy life on this planet. When I say destroy, I mean completely annihilate it. Imagine a nuclear war where madmen from either side drop 100 MT (or greater) bombs...bye bye Earth.

    1. Re:"Jesus Christ" are the only words for this by Detritus · · Score: 1

      I don't think so. Nuclear weapons are feeble in comparison to natural disasters. One small asteroid (1 km diameter) impact can generate three times as much energy as all of the nuclear weapons in the world at the peak of the cold war.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  43. Tsar Bum-ba by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    It's obvious you've never sampled my chili.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  44. I wrote an essay that included Tsar Bomba by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 3, Interesting
    ... a while back. Some of what's in the essay you'll find quite chilling. My I present to you my very own peace-activism site:

    Yeah, I was pretty surprised the domain was available too.

    I plan to add some stuff about the Cuban Missile Crisis sometime soon, such as a wild bear wandering onto a US Air Force Base with the result that a fighter squadron armed with - ready for it? - nuclear air-to-air missiles was scrambled, and would have taken off had not the base commander blocked the runway with his own car.

    The idea behind what one pilot described as "the dumbest weapon ever invented" was to fire a rocket armed with a nuclear bomb into the general vicinity of a soviet bomber. The blast would be big enough that the bomber would be destroyed even if the rocket didn't get very close. It's not quite clear what would become of the American or Canadian citizens on the ground beneath the detonation.

    There's lots more, but I have to do it in little pieces or the I start wanting to crawl out of my own skin.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
    1. Re:I wrote an essay that included Tsar Bomba by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      presumably you would counter these with a nuclear air-to-air missile aimed at the missile attacking you....

      Actually, the dumbest weapon ever devised is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_aircraft this!

  45. This was a Damn Interesting article back in 2006 by Laurentiu · · Score: 1

    The link in question is here.

    --
    Just /. IT
  46. The Doomsday Bomb by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I'd heard about the Cobalt bomb in, off all places, the Planet of the Apes movies, but I figured it was just science fiction, and not a real weapon, a single instance of which could wipe out all life on Earth.

    But I was wrong.

    I don't recall now who invented it, but the idea was to surround a large hydrogen bomb was a casing of non-radioactive Cobalt. The fusion reaction produces a neutron or so for each helium atom created. In a conventional hydrogen bomb, these neutrons are used directly to cause damage, by irradiating living things. But in a Cobalt bomb...

    The neutrons are absorbed by the Cobalt, to become the highly radioactive gamma ray emmitter Cobalt-60. It gets vaporized by the blast, and largely blown into the upper atmosphere.

    Most radioactive fallout from an H-bomb has a very short half life, which is why those who escape the blast can safely emerge from their fallout shelters in a couple weeks. Not so with Cobalt-60: it has a half-life of several years.

    That's long enough to enable to vaporized Cobalt-60 to spread via air currents all over the Earth, eventually to be caught up in raindrops and thereby fallen to the Earth.

    Where it will irradiate everyone with a lethal gamma dose.

    It was envisioned as a spoiler, to be detonated by the loser in a nuclear war. It would need to be a pretty big bomb, on the scale of Tsar Bomba, but it wouldn't need to be delivered, just detonated in place. It will kill everyone eventually, except maybe those in deep underground shelters, who manage to stay there for decades.

    It's inventions like this by my colleagues that make me ashamed to have a degree in Physics.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
    1. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1)Anyone who gets their scientific information from 60's sci-fi movies really shouldn't post the fact to slashdot...

      2)30 tons of cobalt distributed evenly over the surface of the entire earth will sadly, NOT deliver "a lethal dose of gamma radiation" to even a minority of the living critters. (this assumes you double the weight/mass of the device to 60 tons, and make 30 tons of it cobalt metal.) 75% of the earth's surface (as we learned from an even earlier 60's tv show, courtesy of Lloyd Bridges)is water, and water is one of the most efficient gamma shielding substances known.

      3)Contrary to "On The Beach", "The Day After", and "Testament", et al, if you do manage to survive the big flashes and booms, should they ever occur, no, you can't lie down and die, smug in your own "I told you so" superiority--any surviving *authorities* will frown highly on such "demoralization", and adjust your attitude accordingly...

    2. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by ACS+Solver · · Score: 1

      I seem to recall reading that it's something Hruschev wanted built. A bomb to destroy the human civilization if the Soviet Union was about to lose a war with the US.

    3. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by Tejin · · Score: 1
      Reminds me of Dr. Strangelove.

      "Yes but the whole point of a deterrent is lost if you DON'T TELL ANYONE ABOUT IT!"

      or

      "My conclusion was that this idea was not a practical deterrent, for reasons which, at this moment, must be all too obvious."

      --
      The seekers do no need truth, the seekers do find truth and the finding do be painful
    4. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by khallow · · Score: 1

      I guess you missed the part where the bomb has to huge (far larger than any bomb currently built) in order to irradiate enough cobalt.

      It's inventions like this by my colleagues that make me ashamed to have a degree in Physics. I guess I'm fortunate that pretentious moral posturing doesn't bother me much.
    5. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by afabbro · · Score: 1
      It's inventions like this by my colleagues that make me ashamed to have a degree in Physics.

      It's just inventions, just political fashion. And I'm sorry to inform you that no matter how much you talk like this, progressive chicks still won't have sex with you.

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
    6. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by darkmeridian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The cobalt dirty bomb was basically a bluff by the United States in a very Strangelovian manner. The military leadership was able to convince everyone that the Russians had a huge nuclear warhead advantage over the United States. Afraid that the Commies were going to destroy America, we said that we would end life on this planet if we were attacked. The nasty part about the device is that it's fallout had a half-life that was short enough so it could release its radiation in a sustained fatal dose (radioactive materials either burn long or burn bright), yet long enough to wait out any survivors who took refuge into bunkers.

      However, a cobalt device has never been known to be built. The problem probably lies in obtaining enough cobalt to make a device large enough to cause the end of life on Earth. A cobalt-based doomsday device can't be dropped onto enemy territory--due to size constraints, it must be based on friendly territory. If you don't get enough bang to end life on Earth, you would just destroy your own country for no reason.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    7. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by juan2074 · · Score: 1

      "It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises."

    8. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by kindbud · · Score: 1

      If you don't get enough bang to end life on Earth, you would just destroy your own country for no reason.

      Attempting to use such a device isn't reason enough? Sounds like poetic justice to me.

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
    9. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by Neanderthal+Ninny · · Score: 1

      Cobalt salted (aka Neutron Bomb). Gee, killing all of the people on the surface of the earth and leaving the equipment undamaged is such a wonderful thing... for the insane mind.

    10. Re:The Doomsday Bomb by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Most radioactive fallout from an H-bomb has a very short half life, which is why those who escape the blast can safely emerge from their fallout shelters in a couple weeks. Not so with Cobalt-60: it has a half-life of several years....to spread via air currents all over the Earth....Where it will irradiate everyone with a lethal gamma dose.

      A1 Kaida: "Wow, that must be worth thousands of virgins!"

  47. Re:If 1/100 of the Sun suddenly appeared on Earth. by T+Murphy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Firewalkers don't burn their feet because they are in contact with the heat for only a short period of time. This bomb didn't do apocalyptic damage because it only lasted for a brief amount of time. If the explosion held its peak for a minute, there would likely be issues produced that alter life as we know it, but it was a short enough burst that the energy was able to dissipate over a large area without issue.

  48. World energy consumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my opinion, a more interesting question is how long you could satisfy the world's energy needs with the explosion.

    50 megatons is equivalent to 2e+17 joules. The world power consumption was 1.5e+13 watts in 2004. It follows that that single blast could have powered our modern, energy-starving world for four hours.

  49. Old, but who cares... by band-aid-brand · · Score: 1

    Every time I read about this monstrosity I burst into a fit of laughter. Gigantic weapons just make me happy for some reason. I propose a 100 Megaton test on the moon so the whole world can watch...

  50. And this is news how... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I fail to see how this is news, it has been known for a while that the Soviets wanted to try a 100 megaton device. I would recommend to check Trinity and Beyond http://www.vce.com/trinity.html/, a real good documentary on the initial tests and further developments up to the very last test not so long ago.

  51. I've always thought they should sell tickets by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 1
    ... to atmospheric H-Bomb tests in the Pacific. The ticketholders would be on luxury liners at a safe distance from the blast.

    I know I'd buy one!

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  52. The real effects of a nuclear war by Cannelloni · · Score: 1
    I recommend the TV movies "Threads" (Britain, 1984) or "The Day After" (US, 1983) to anyone who'd like to know what a real nuclear war would do to our so-called civilization. Literally, within a few months, and for 50 years or more, the world would be thrown into chaos and sink to the deepest point ever, much lower than the Dark Ages. "Threads" scared the living daylights out of me by being brutally, horrifically, intensely honest and realistic, so very, very far from the stupid and maddening Hollywood clichés.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After

    When I was growing up in Europe in the early 1980s there was still a very real threat of a hot cold war. A nuclear stand-off. The US deployed Pershing II medium range ballistic missiles to counter a possible Soviet attack and the USSR deployed similar SS-20 or SS-21 missiles as a counter measure. There was only a five-minute warning... It was crazy and hellish.

    --
    Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
    1. Re:The real effects of a nuclear war by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 1

      The Day After was nothing more than communist propaganda. From 1920 onward, the Soviet Union invaded practically every nation on its borders. If it wasn't for German war effort and the eventual discovery of the nuclear bomb, all of Europe would have fallen to Soviet occupation. The movie is comical in that it portrays the US as the aggressor against the Soviet Union, and comically ignores that historical evidence points to the exact opposite being the more probable outcome.

    2. Re:The real effects of a nuclear war by Cannelloni · · Score: 1

      This is debatable, since the Soviets apparently had no concrete plans to attack western Europe during the cold war at least not after the fall of Nikita Khrushchev. But the again I'm no expert o the subject. The Day after was communist propaganda? On what do you base this revelation? Maybe Jason Robards, Steve Guttenberg, John Lithgow and JoBeth Williams were all red commie bastards too?

      --
      Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
    3. Re:The real effects of a nuclear war by Hornes · · Score: 0

      I think the probable outcome depicted in the movie was one of the destruction of civilization (or at least the portion contained in Kansas.) Who the aggressor was seemed absurdly irrelevant to characters facing the suffering and death of the aftermath. Given the murkiness and debate which surrounds historical events in this world, I'm sure the survivors in a world where all the records had been incinerated would point their bony, irradiated fingers at each other and be convinced the other was responsible for the war.

    4. Re:The real effects of a nuclear war by bitrex · · Score: 1

      Are you sure you watched the same movie? As I recall, there are newscasts during the film that report that the Russians have crossed into the Fulda gap in West Germany and have used tactical nuclear weapons against West German targets. As far as the actual full scale ICBM exchange that takes place during the second half of the film goes it's pretty much seen only from the perspective of people living around Lawrence Kansas and Kansas City, and there's really no indication of who fired what first.

    5. Re:The real effects of a nuclear war by fontkick · · Score: 1

      I know what you mean. There's this other really, really realistic movie called War Games that will scare the crap right out of you! It's about this dorky kid who hacks into a really big computer called the WOPR, which runs our war simulation programs for the Pentagon, only inside a mountain. Anyway, this kid hacks into it with his 300 baud modem after war dialing every phone number in Colorado for three days, and the computer let's him into it because the sysop had a really lame password; well, it wasn't that lame, at least it wasn't "God", but it was the name of his dead kid which was in every newspaper article ever written on the guy. Anyway, he gets in (the dork, not the dead kid), and plays a videogame called "Globo-thermo-nuclear-war", and tries to nuke Las Vegas and Seattle. But get this - it's not a game... IT'S REAL!!! No shit! That's what I've been trying to tell people - you think this can't happen - but it can! Anyway, he hacks into it, and starts the computer thinking that maybe we can actually win a nuclear war. So the computer is trying to launch the codes. Then the dork guy goes to the mountain. He says "You have to stop it, because it's trying to launch the codes!". Then the sysop comes in, and plays tic-tac-toe with the computer, and the computer loses, and then the computer figures out that if it can't win at tic-tac-toe, it shouldn't really even bother with trying to win a nuke war, because a nuke war is much harder, of course. So it quit, even though it did get the code.

      I hope I didn't spoil it. But it's still really good because there's parts I left out, like the remote-controlled dinosaur.

    6. Re:The real effects of a nuclear war by Cannelloni · · Score: 1

      That's a bad movie. Remember, I grew up in the 1980s. It sucked, I can tell you. In most of those 1980s nuke war movies there's the Black Scientist, usually played by Richard Pryor. He is of course a Computer Expert. So, he sits down in front of the Evil War Mainframe, made by Evil IBM or some such war-mongering manufacturer, and starts hitting random key combinations that look like real commands (the computer goes "Prrreeet prrreeeeet! DOES NOT COMPUTE: INSUFFICIENT DATA" or similar). And eventually, the guy saves the world and becomes a hero, of course.

      --
      Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
  53. An ex-KGB spy said they were convinced Reagan... by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 5, Interesting
    ... would push the button. I read an article by the spy in Time Magazine after the breakup of the Soviet Union. His job was to count lit-up windows in British Defense Ministry buildings each night; the idea was that if the war was about to start, the Defense Ministry workers would all be up late working on the planning for it.

    And that's not at all far-fetched; I read once that a certain Washington DC Domino's Pizza knew the night before when the first Persian Gulf War was going to start, as they were getting orders from the Pentagon all night long.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  54. Re: "Loving Earth" by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

    Go see "Into the Wild". The Wild kills.

  55. The British H-bomb by Cannelloni · · Score: 1

    The British developed their A and H bombs independently from the United States, since the US chose to ignore a technology sharing treaty the UK and US had after the war. The British got their super bomb working in the Grapple test series in 1957-58 after only nine (reasonably clean) tests. Pretty impressive, but it took all the might of the crumbling Empire to build it. They scrapped all the old bombers and battleships, and rather needlessly built THREE high-tech V bombers: the Vickers Valiant, Avro Vulcan and Handley Page Victor. (And simultaneously an atomic submarine program.) They were super, but the sheer costs must have contributed to the collapse of the British Empire. See my sig, btw. Says it all. I've read lots of accounts from the Grapple series. Security was pretty good, but some people were rather close to the explosions. They were horrifies by the strange heat wave from the bombs and the super-intense flash! People who were facing away from the bomb and closed their eyes could see the bones inside their hands! How many of them contracted cancer and disorders nobody knows.

    --
    Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
  56. Only in the right hands by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

    Jason Bourne or someone else from Treadstone, yes. Otherwise, I'll take the nuke.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  57. Novaya Zemlya by Cinnaman · · Score: 1

    I've always wondered what the effect on Novaya Zemlya (the place over which it was dropped) was. Just did some reading, apparently 224 nuclear devices were detonated there.

    1. Re:Novaya Zemlya by tyler.willard · · Score: 1

      It probably nurned into the primary breeding ground for Godzilla.

  58. Re:An ex-KGB spy said they were convinced Reagan.. by Cannelloni · · Score: 1

    That's really interesting. I remember how close we came to war a couple of times during the 1970s and 80s, and of course in the 50s and 60s. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, Bomber Command in Britain could have wiped out a large part of the USSR before the American bombers had reached their targets! But by this time the Soviets would probably have vaporized the German cities and it would have been to late anyway, because there would have been precious little to fight over. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_bomber

    --
    Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
  59. Maybe not such a smart idea.. by cheros · · Score: 1

    The moon is part of our ecological system, I'm not quite sure what would happen if we change anything up there. Besides, what are the odds a nuke would make it up there without some ill inspired military fool changing the target area?

    The only reason we still walk around on this planet without too much extra glow is because people in charge of the switch (specifically Russion ones) had more guts and brains than was reasonable to expect from them given the propaganda both sides generate.

    I don't know about you, but I find the idea of any nation (regardless of creed, religion and/or inclination) having enough capability to zap life on this globe rather worrying. MAD is indeed a very apt acronym.

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  60. This is news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... how exactly?

  61. Why the MOAB was the MOAB by riffzifnab · · Score: 1

    The thing the submitter is failing to realize is that the MOAB is so named because it's the "largest" *conventional* bomb. Big explosions are easy with a nuke, its a lot harder with chemical reactions. Point is moot anyway, Russia says they already beat the US with its Father of all Bombs.

  62. I think what our bright young friend is... by Xodmoe · · Score: 1

    ...trying to say is...

    I don't know... my money's still on the pen.

    What is a pen compared to the hand that wields it?

    ...or the human intellect that guides both?

  63. Go and get "Trinity" the atomic bomb documentary by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114728/ Narrated by our pal Bill Shatner too.
    http://www.amazon.com/Trinity-Beyond-Atomic-Bomb-Movie/dp/B00000IML5

    Absoloutely awesome movie, probably a bit twisted but I love atomic bombs and seeing them go off, beautiful things, horrible of course but beautiful too, fascinating stuff.
    They cover Tsar Bomba in that, IIRC the mushroom cloud went 64km's in the air and people would have got 3'rd degree burns at up to 100 miles away.
    (check wikipedia, I'm not linking it for whoring value)

    Here's a snippet of it as it goes off underwater.
    Seeing the size of that amount of water shoot up with those tiny battleships in the foreground, along with that music - goosebumps.

    Epic stuff, check it out people.

  64. Re:Go and get "Trinity" the atomic bomb documentar by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

    Err apologies, link I was trying to post.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XudyhmS1YxA

    (unless I did paste it and slashdot stripped it? I doubt it?)
    Anyhow if it doesn't appear in this post again, go on youtube and search for "trinity underwater" should do it.
    Awesome stuff.

  65. RE: The penis mightier for $200 Alex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the reason I consider false or sensationalist news more dangerous to the wellbeing of society than terrorism.

    Welcome to slashdot. New here?

  66. Old News by tsilb · · Score: 0

    This was around months ago. On 9/20/07 this info appeared in the blogosphere with video.

  67. Hot Pants! by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but James Brown laid down da bomb and blew away the house.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  68. Compared to Hiroshima by Jeff1946 · · Score: 1

    This sucker was about 2500 times the strength of the Hiroshima bomb. So using SRQT(2500)=50, at 50 miles it would be like 1 mile from the bomb at Hiroshima. I recall it was touch and go as to whether the plane that dropped it would be destroyed. Believe it was painted white to reduce radiative heating.

  69. built and tested but never utilized by DigitalReverend · · Score: 1

    The Tsar Bomba qualifies as the single most powerful device ever utilized throughout the history of humanity.

    This bomb was built to cause destruction, it might have been tested but calling it utilized is a fallacy and I for one am glad it has never been utilized.

    --
    I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
  70. I'm disappointed in you /. by t35t0r · · Score: 1

    Not a single "in soviet russia" joke?!

    1. Re:I'm disappointed in you /. by sqldr · · Score: 1

      I'll have a go!

      er.. in soviet russia, your status is as part of a consituent state of russian, transcaucasian, ukrainian and belorussian union socialist republics under a stalinist regime of centralised economic and social jurisprudence.

      wait, am I supposed to use some sort of juxtapose in there? damnit, i'm bad at these!

      --
      I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
    2. Re:I'm disappointed in you /. by t35t0r · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Russia the Tsar bombs you!

    3. Re:I'm disappointed in you /. by garompeta · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Russia your MOM bombs YOU!

  71. The pen by pleappleappleap · · Score: 1


    I'll take, "The Penis Mightier" for $500.

  72. oops by SSCGWLB · · Score: 1

    Don't mind me, I can't click on the right 'reply to'.

  73. Wrong by kcbanner · · Score: 1

    The single most powerful device(s) are Chuck Norris' right and left legs.

    --
    Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
  74. Slashdottings make slashdot useless by mathx · · Score: 1

    *sigh* another interesting story gone. Post more details in the initial submission so we dont have to visit the website at all. Anyone summarize the best bits from the page thats now offline or got a google cachelink?

  75. Who remembers this one? by megaditto · · Score: 1

    The only way to secure the peace, Senator, as I'm sure you know, is to be prepared. See, we can parachute these robot guys behind enemy lines. They hide out till the first strike blows over. Then each one is able to just carry a 25-megaton bomb right up the middle of Main Street Moscow - like the mailman bringing bad news. We call it Operation 'Gotcha LAST!'
    --
    Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    1. Re:Who remembers this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Short circuit?

    2. Re:Who remembers this one? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      As I recall, basselopes could bound into Russia, their 2-foot height well beneath conventional radar. Their antlers combined with a large rubber band made a great bomb delivery method.

  76. Where's the USSR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and yet somehow we aren't speaking Russian today.

  77. come on movie makers by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

    Why hasn't someone made a scene where two people fight one with a sword the other with a pen and the pen wins? Think airplane style humor.

    I am also waiting for another movie where (american) football players trip on and get pinned under that line that is put on the screen for the first down.

  78. hate never shows up for no reason. by dpilot · · Score: 1

    I respectfully disagree...

    Think about demagogues. One key tool is to stir up your population hating someone else, so they'll give you the power to fix the "problem" you just created out of thin air. At the risk of running askance of Godwin's Law, think about the H-guy and the Jews prior to WWII. They were no threat, but they were a convenient bogeyman, and served as a target for hatred.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    1. Re:hate never shows up for no reason. by hitmark · · Score: 1

      the problem was not created out of thin air.

      the nations economy was in deep deep red, and said group of people was given the blame for that in a claimed conspiracy.

      again, it didnt show up out of the blue. it was created out of the general discontent with the present situation, and the recent loss of national pride, channeled towards a physical target that the man on the street could (kinda) recognize and therefor hurt.

      a demagogue never, ever, work in a vacuum, there needs to be some issue for them to play on before hand. one can direct it and reinforce it, but never really create it.

      its always the underdog that buy into the demagogue message.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    2. Re:hate never shows up for no reason. by dpilot · · Score: 1

      I guess what I meant was that the Jews weren't the cause of the problem. From what I've read, the real cause was an unsatisfactory ending to WWI, really.

      But I do suspect that a talented demagogue could construct a problem where none really exists. I would argue that gay rights (or legislating the lack thereof) is one such issue. Find a group of people who only want to mind their own business, and turn them into "culture killers" that must be stopped! Last I knew, none of them were telling me that I was wrong or sinful for being married to a woman, or otherwise infringing on others' ways of life.

      If in a contented situation, it's probably always possible to manufacture discontent.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  79. For most devastating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd go for a cough/sneeze.

  80. Oh that's doubly brilliant. by zippthorne · · Score: 1

    If they later accuse you of not actually doing anything about entropy, you can just quote the second law of thermodynamics, "Entropy increases for all real processes." Not doing anything is the only thing you can do about it.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  81. Re: "Loving Earth" by kabocox · · Score: 1

    Everyone I have heard espouse the "loving Earth/Gaia" bit lives a comfortable, relatively modern life. Mother Earth loves you plenty when you have electricity, running water and stores full of food.

    Take that away and get real close to Mother Earth. I've been there: Mother Earth may still love you, but the bitch will try her best to kill you at every opportunity.


    The bitch is trying to kill us annually with hurricanes, tornadoes, mudslides, floods, and diseases. She doesn't really love us; she hates us and has been trying to kill us off.

  82. Aha! by Alomex · · Score: 1

    Its detonation released energy equivalent to approximately 1% of the power output of the Sun for 39 nanoseconds of its detonation.

    Finally, the reason behind global warming!

  83. I respectfully disagree... by SIIHP · · Score: 1

    They could have just as easily used pencils.

    --
    I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
  84. Terrorist Ducks by Jonathan · · Score: 1

    Terrorist ducks? I *knew* there was something fishy about Scrooge McDuck -- if he had nothing to hide, why doesn't he use legitimate banking methods to store his money?

    1. Re:Terrorist Ducks by ashitaka · · Score: 1

      I have now found my official new moniker: TerroristDuck

      Thank you.

      --
      If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
  85. no, just use the pen to... by rmallico · · Score: 1

    jam the firing mechanism of the bomb... everyone knows you can do that... jeez.. :P

    --
    sig goes here!
  86. One thing missing by jbeaupre · · Score: 1

    Everybody knows you can't have a proper nuking in the Soviet union without some cowboy riding the bomb.

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  87. The biggest so far.... by ka9dgx · · Score: 1

    The physics of Thermonuclear weapons is such that you can scale them up to almost any yield you want, provided you have the proper knowledge of the physics involved. It's perfectly feasible to build a "doomsday" weapon of 10 GigaTon yield or more, bury it in a quarry somewhere... and know that you could contaminate the entire earth with fallout. Dr Strangelove wasn't far off the mark. --Mike-- Am I on the no-fly list yet?

  88. Power is energy transferred per unit of time... by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    ...and 39 nanoseconds is not very long.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  89. That's the theory behind current US actions to by wiredog · · Score: 1
    Iran.

    Not working that well, is it?

    1. Re:That's the theory behind current US actions to by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons...

      --
      Deleted
    2. Re:That's the theory behind current US actions to by hawk · · Score: 1

      As of this morning, no. As of next year . . . ???

      hawk

  90. Re: "Loving Earth" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...but the bitch will try her best to kill you at every opportunity."

    Mother Earth is not a "bitch" just because you can't build a fire.

  91. Already? by Vampyre_Dark · · Score: 1

    It's been 46 years since the release of Showgirls? I'll be damned.

  92. Oblig Portal Reference: by oni · · Score: 1

    "[The Earth] doesn't love you any more than your pet rock does."

    Remember, the Earth will not talk to you, and if fact, it cannot speak. If the Earth does talk to you, we encourage you to ignore its advice.

  93. 44MT? Not by a few orders of magnitude... by stjobe · · Score: 1

    At 44MT, the FOAB would have been the second most powerful bomb ever detonated, coming in just after the Tsar Bomba. However, it's not quite that powerful. Not by an order of magnitude or six.

    The American-made MOAB (Mother of all Bombs, or the more boring official Massive Ordnance Air Blast) weighs in at 11 tons TNT, and the Russian-made FOAB (Father of all Bombs, no official name given) weighs in at a whopping 44 tons of TNT. No, that's not kilotons or even megatons like the previous poster wrote, just plain tons. Not even close to even a puny nuclear weapon like the Hiroshima bomb (about 13 kilotons TNT). Not that I'd like to be in the neighborhood when either one of these babies goes off, though.

    Here's some linkies for your clickification:
    Mother of all bombs (GBU-43/B): wikipedia, Global Security, Discovery Channel snippet
    Father of all bombs: wikipedia, the Guardian article, YouTube

    --
    "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
  94. Ignite the atmosphere by Danathar · · Score: 1

    I remember reading/hearing somewhere that when the first bomb was detonated in New Mexico that there were bets that it might ignite the atmosphere and cause a chain reaction cooking everything on the surface.

    Question 1: Why did they think that (these were smart guys)

    Question 2: Why did it NOT happen?

    Question 3: Could it happen with a big enough bomb?

    1. Re:Ignite the atmosphere by geekoid · · Score: 1

      1) It was, at best, a very few people that said that.

      2) Some people thought the world was flat, but it wasn't. What caused the world to stop being flat?

      3) "Big Enough" sure. You would need about 20 million of these bombs.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  95. Re:If 1/100 of the Sun suddenly appeared on Earth. by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 1

    Picosecond pulses from a nitrogen laser are well over a megawatt, but you can put your hand in the beam without feeling anything.

    --
    Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

    http://financialpetition.org/
  96. easier way by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

    Just bomb the canary island, hell just some regular explosives would set off the land slide. The whole east coast of North America is screwed, the sea life is moved a bit but not totally killed off from fallout, and it would be a lot easier to do.

    Quick someone but a few battle groups around the canary islands.

  97. Re:If 1/100 of the Sun suddenly appeared on Earth. by BlueParrot · · Score: 1

    This bomb didn't do apocalyptic damage because it only lasted for a brief amount of time.


    It was detonated hundreds of meters into the air, yet the mere radiation melted the rock bellow it to glass, the dust cloud penetrated the cloud cover, the electromagnetic pulse disturbed radio transmissions in Australia, and the shock-wave could still be measured on its third pass around the world. Had it been detonated at full power it would have released more radioactive fallout than Soviet's entire history of nuclear testing. Sure, maybe the single shot didn't quite qualify as "apocalyptic" but build a few hundred of those things and you start getting close... This was a weapon with a destructive power that could quite correctly be described as having biblical proportions.
  98. Re: "Loving Earth" by inertialmatrix · · Score: 1

    Take that away and get real close to Mother Earth. I've been there: Mother Earth may still love you, but the bitch will try her best to kill you at every opportunity.

    I just have to say this, we should all lovingly thank that bitch for trying to kill us at every opportunity. It is the murdering ecosystem we all inhabit that provided the mechanism for our evolution.
  99. Damn straight, she was asking for it by spun · · Score: 1

    The analogies about nuclear explosions "raping" the Earth are quite stupid and misinformed. Have you seen her skimpy covering of life? It barely covers her enormous mountain chains! With her moist and fertile farmlands just sitting out there for all to see, her icecaps melting in some obscene striptease, and her delicate ecosystems all exposed, the slut was asking for it.
    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Damn straight, she was asking for it by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Plus, she's got... huge tracks of land!

  100. Re: "Loving Earth" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, it's going to far to anthropomorphize the Earth as some sort of conscious goddess character.

    But it's not "just a rock." We are not aliens dropped out of the sky onto this place. We all grew out of it - straight out of the scum.

    Look, here is a tree in the garden, and every summer it produces apples, and we call it an apple tree because the tree apples, that's what it does. Alright, now here is a solar system inside a galaxy and one of the peculiarities of this solar system is that at least on the planet Earth the thing peoples. In just the same way that an apple tree apples.

    Now maybe, two million years ago somebody came from another galaxy in a flying saucer and had a look at this solar system, and they looked it over and shrugged their shoulders and said, "just a bunch of rocks," and they went away. Later on, maybe two million years later they came around and they looked at it again, and they said, "Excuse me, we thought it was a bunch of rocks, but it's peopling, and it's alive after all. It's done something intelligent."

    Because, you see, we grow out of this world in exactly the same way that the apples grow on the apple tree.

    - Alan Watts
  101. Cool! A Minnie Driver/Anne Hathaway love scene. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    > about 50 megatons. Its detonation released energy equivalent to approximately 1%
    > of the power output of the Sun for 39 nanoseconds of its detonation.

    Hmmm. Maybe Marvel's character The Sentry, with the energy of "a million exploding suns" (not just plain old suns burning away) is evidence of highly retarded-level scientific illiteracy in comic book authors.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  102. The hell!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tsar anniversary's????? I finished watching a video clip about it in youtube a few hours back!!!!!! I don't know why!! It just poped in my head (I was looking for anime).
    What was the time of the detonation? I bet I watched it at the same time!!! freaky really!!!!!!

  103. Battlefield nukes CAN be your friend ... by beer_maker · · Score: 1
    Setting aside the sarcasm, the answer is Yes, I think someone would worry that "hey, we can bomb moscow and kill 10 million, but we don't want to damage the little town 10 miles east ... that's why they developed the neutron bomb. It's the nuclear-weapon version of the flash-bang, very bad if it goes off next to you, but doesn't hurt people around the corner. The military planners you denigrate DID spend some time thinking about the issue, since they knew a bomb can drive the enemy out of an area, but it can't do a thing to keep it. Better if the buildings are still standing, even if they need a bit of decon.

    Here's a little thought experiment:

    Imagine you are sitting in a barracks in beautiful Germany, just west of the Fulda Gap. Over on the other side of said Gap is a large subset of the Soviet 8th Guards Army, all planning to cruise through it and over you on their way to Paris and points west. There aren't enough conventional munitions or bodies to fire them... but you can drop a 'tactical nuclear weapon' and stop the remainder in their tracks.

    Pop Quiz: Do you want to be there with a weapon that's never been rigorously tested, whose characteristics aren't fully understood, or do you want one that was and is?

    It seems that you are still stuck with some of the hippy mentality you pooh-poohed above - if you cannot understand the difference between the precise delivery of a 1 Kiloton tactical weapon and a county-destroying 50 Megaton Tsar Bomba then further discussion would seem moot.

    --
    Hmmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
    1. Re:Battlefield nukes CAN be your friend ... by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      The tsar bomb wasn't neutron bomb , it was a 50 megaton nuke.

      "Pop Quiz: Do you want to be there with a weapon that's never been rigorously tested, whose characteristics aren't fully understood, or do you want one that was and is?"

      Pop answer: after a nuclear war that used the bomb in question I don't think I or anyone else would be left around to care.

      "if you cannot understand the difference between the precise delivery of a 1 Kiloton tactical weapon and a county-destroying 50 Megaton Tsar Bomba then further discussion would seem moot."

      If you can't even RTFA to find out what whats actually being discussed - ie why would the russians bother to test a nuke that large - then you're correct , this discussion is moot.

  104. Energy is not power by xebra · · Score: 2, Informative

    Its detonation released energy equivalent to approximately 1% of the power output of the Sun for 39 nanoseconds of its detonation.

    The thing that irks me the most about Slashdot is the way that the majority of posters and commenters so maladroitly feign expertise in the sciences. Anyway, you meant to say "Tsar Bomba's rate of energy release, for a period of 39 nanoseconds, was ~1% of the Sun's rate of luminous energy release (which has been maintained continuously for ~4.5 billion years.)"

    1. Re:Energy is not power by neminem · · Score: 1

      "Power" = "energy over time". "Power output" = "energy output over time". "1% of the power output of the Sun" = "1% of the Sun's energy output over time", i.e. its rate of energy output. I think the meaning was fairly clear.

  105. While We're At It by Bananas · · Score: 1

    Anyone care for a game of thermonuclear war?

  106. Hate is now inherited and learned by ashitaka · · Score: 1

    We are now a couple of generations removed from many original sources of hate but you will still find Muslim kids who decry Jews, Jewish kids who vow to kill Muslims, Whites that beat up Blacks, Chinese that hate Japanese, etc. etc.

    These kids probably have never met the recipients of their wrath nor been involved in any direct conflict, but their hate continues to exist because it has been passed down to them from their parents, their schools, their governments and the media in their societies.

    --
    If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
  107. Re: "Loving Earth" by Neuticle · · Score: 1
    I can build a fire without matches or lighters in several different ways, thank you.

    And I clean my own fish

    /Eagle Scout

    --
    "Cheeze it!" - Bender
  108. Re:An ex-KGB spy said they were convinced Reagan.. by geekoid · · Score: 1

    They knew something was going on, I doubt they new what.
    That manager was a friend of the manager at the store I worked at and called him telling him something big was going on.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  109. Re: "Loving Earth" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ugh, crunchy granola hippie sentiments don't get more palatable because they're dressed up in crappy sci-fi notions.

  110. Re: How close by r_jensen11 · · Score: 1

    If |------------------| is 1nm

    then we were
    |.| close.

    "How I stopped nuclear war." We can thank this guy for being insubordinate and not following procedures. Because if he *had* followed orders, then it's incredibly likely that none of us would be here today.

  111. Re:An ex-KGB spy said they were convinced Reagan.. by Spit · · Score: 1

    I read once that a certain Washington DC Domino's Pizza knew the night before when the first Persian Gulf War was going to start, as they were getting orders from the Pentagon all night long.

    My crack dealer had the same hunch about the second Gulf war.

    --
    POKE 36879,8
  112. Re:I respectfully disagree... OH! Mightily! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes YES!

    Oh it is so shameful what men have done!

    I loathe being a human. If only we could go back to our roots-
    And live peacefully, amongst the other simian creatures!

    And if only we ... Oh! the humanity! Oh My god!

  113. Re:Thats nonsense Brittleknee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uhh...
    I think you mean-
    Britney Spaers is the bomb of all mothers.