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British Royal Navy Submarines Now Run Windows
meist3r writes "On his Government blog, Microsoft's Ian McKenzie announced today that the Royal Navy was ahead of schedule for switching their nuclear submarines to a customized Microsoft Windows solution dubbed 'Submarine Command System Next Generation (SMCS NG)' which apparently consists of Windows 2000 network servers and XP workstations. In the article, it is claimed that this decision will save UK taxpayers £22m over the next ten years. The installation of the new system apparently took just 18 days on the HMS Vigilant. According to the BAE Systems press release from 2005, the overall cost of the rollout was £24.5m for all eleven nuclear submarines of the Vanguard, Trafalgar and Swiftsure classes. Talk about staying with the sinking ship."
Blue Submarine of Death
I record my sleeptalking
..when the Blue Screen of Death pops up!
Now with an entirely new set of meanings.
The last time I drove my car into a lake the windows didn't last past 15 feet. Of course my car is American, and those Brits have that funky metric system, so who knows?
(Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week)
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
The navy liked their version of minesweeper best.
Didn't the Brits hear about what happened to the USS Yorktown when they tried Windows as a naval solution. God save the Queen, please.
I mean who in a sane mind would want windows on a submarine ? It's not like there is anything interesting to see in the darkness of the depths.
This roll-out must be 5 years overdue, windows 2000 server?
From "Das Boot" to "ReBoot".
So do they have a Gamma-ray Screen of Death?
Just be sure to get to port often enough to get the latest patches offered.
They are now aware of everything that those subs do. That is, until BSOD.
Summary fails to mention, and sort of implies the opposite; The cost saving is down to using off the shelf hardware, not switching to windows.
Compared to what? Going open source would save even more money, no? Maybe submarine apps don't run on Linux. We need someone to code GNU Nuke Reactor.
-- http://ninthagenda.com/
Tech support: "Can you tell us the problem with your submarine?"
HMS Bob: "Das Not Boot."
Wolfgang Petersen is reportedly preparing to make "Das Reboot", a (very) short sequel.
Source for obvious reasons. I know the Brits and Americans are friends, but still, running an OS that is doing Bill-knows-what doesn't sound very secure in many ways (Would you want the US military running a closed source Red Hat Linux sight unseen?). Even if there is no backdoors/spying, the ability to compile the source and see what it is doing at every step will have benefits in the future, to look for holes previously unknown, to see what it is doing every step of the way, or to graft new abilities into it.
Linux/BSD/whatever. In fact, I'm wondering why corporations run MS now, considering all this.
20 posts before the first one that actually provides useful information.
Is that a typical ratio on slashdot? I haven't been keeping track.
That'll explain this recent Royal Navy advert.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aDHPCr5m4ko
I find the words Windows and nuclear been uttered in the same sentence very disconcerting.
If taxation is legalized theft, then Capitalism is a prolonged rape followed by a slow death.
> to look for holes previously unknown
especially valid remark in a submarine, IMHO...
Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
Even without that, the possibility of viruses makes me shiver.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
So the next step is to install windows on military aircraft and allow windows to guide the missiles (Y)! And by the way...some submarines have live nuclear weaponry right? Oh dear...!
..the Blue Screen of Death isn't just a namesake anymore?
Real men read Slashdot articles at -1, bottom up.
They probably have access to the source code under some kind of NDA. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.
Source for obvious reasons. I know the Brits and Americans are friends, but still, running an OS that is doing Bill-knows-what doesn't sound very secure in many ways (Would you want the US military running a closed source Red Hat Linux sight unseen?). Even if there is no backdoors/spying, the ability to compile the source and see what it is doing at every step will have benefits in the future, to look for holes previously unknown, to see what it is doing every step of the way, or to graft new abilities into it.
What makes you think they haven't got a contract with Microsoft for access to the source code ?
*nucular* submarines
fixed that for you
...Skynet specified *nix, of course!
A small transmitter on each ship, a trojan and we'll have the entire fleet.
This brings DDoS to a whole new level...
Now I can sleep safer knowing that if the Brits are about to launch a nuclear missile from a submarine and start WWIII, a UAC window will pop up asking if they are sure about it.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
.. British Navy submarine captains are the only officers worldwide (as of the mid 90s or so) to have the independent right to launch nuclear missiles if they lose contact with the Admiralty.
switching their *nucular* submarines to a customized Microsoft Windows solution
- fixed that for you
Wow Slashdot, your news is years old. Windows was rolled out a couple of years ago.
Nothing to see here, move along. BSOD, bang!
Don't these submarines carry nuclear weapons? Oh, my...
So say we all
'I don't know if they frighten the enemy, but they scare the hell out of me.'
at least they're up front about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDHPCr5m4ko
"hello! i am your friendly helpagent clippy! what do you want to do? wage nuclear war? or just launch a conventional cruise missile? learn how to do that here."
If they had used Linux: who do they sue ? Linus isn't that rich.
The term "Blue Screen of Death" is now deprecated. It has been replaced with "Blue Mushroom Cloud of Death."
Also, does that 22-million-saved figure include the cost of fixing the horrible errors and accidents that occur as a result of this?
This
Now think about a corporate drone using Windows. Your desktop is locked down, updates are rolled out by IT. If your machine is taken over by an IE exploit, the Exchange server fails, etc. etc., there is nothing you can do about it.
Conclusion: Windows is the appropriate operating system for submarines.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Arghh!!
How am I going to explain that those LocoMochaDoubleFrappeEsspressoTripleShots I was TRYING to drink, but ended up splattering across my monitor/keyboard, are NOT cumstains from pr0n....to my PHB!
Oh, yes, and...YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!!!
Is there a '+1 ROFLCopter!!111!! mod that I haven't found?
Note: set sarcasm filter to 'full speed ahead, and dam* the torpedoes!
*yes, I know the diff between dam and damn...think about it if you are a pedant, or going full speed ahead.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Summary fails to mention, and sort of implies the opposite; The cost saving is down to using off the shelf hardware, not switching to windows.
Windows made the submarines on-the-shelf hardware, they'll be sitting pretty on some reef shelf in no time.
Mr. Malda, I'm submitting the news article for 2009-01-19 ahead of time:
Microsoft's Ian McKenzie announced today that the entire Royal Navy Nuclear Submarine fleet had sunk due to a Windows buffer overflow. HMS Vigilant's captain, Commander Bob Anstey, said: "I heard my 1st officer shouting 'Captain, Be SOD, Overflow!', so I yelled at him: 'Get the caulking guns ready, you SOD!' and he just gave me a blank stare and said: 'We cannot caulk this one, sir! Vigilant's a goner!' Well, bugger me!"
In other news:
HMS Vigilant's captain, Commander Bob Anstey allegedly accidentally fired a nuclear missile at Redmond, Washington in an attempt to complete the Windows Activation of the newly installed 'Submarine Command System Next Generation' customized Windows XP system. "It was a bug, yes, that's it. Some kind of unfortunate bug triggered the 19-step launch sequence," said Commander Anstey. Nobody at or near Microsoft could be reached for a comment.
With the Royal Navy's recruitment advert for IT crew where the guy goes on about how complex the equipment is and then finishes the advert with the punch line "but sometimes, I just switch it off and back on again".
Perhaps this is why it's saved tax payers £22 million too, we no longer need high paid IT staff with a clue what they're doing, we can just get 16 year old school drop outs who IT qualifications are that they built their own PC and set up an internet on uncle Joes computer by sticking the AOL disc in. I mean, hey the nuclear missile launch console has failed to fire off our nuclear deterrent after Russia just obliterated Europe in a nuclear attack, just reinstall Windows and make sure you stick the latest nuclear weapons launch drivers on, if not just pop round to the local PC World store and get the Tech Guys (UK equivalent of Geek Squad) to fix it for £125.
I can sleep comfortably knowing that our nuclear deterrent is in safe hands.
When I was doing an internship a few years ago, a colleague of mine (who was working to fund her masters degree) told me the first job after her bachelors degree in computer science had been writing software for nuclear submarines.
She worked in some high security, underground place with thick steel doors (did she? well either she told me that or it's my imagination again...) and they showed them videos of what happened when they made mistakes: everyone drowns... or the submarine gets crushed by pressure, or whatever, depending on the bug. I don't think accidentally releasing nukes was one of the scenarios though...
Maybe they should show the microsoft programmers some of those videos.
Microsoft do have source sharing programs with some partners. This sort of project would be one example of that.
The reason the Windows 2000 source code got leaked a few years back is not because of lack of security at Microsoft itself but because a partner leaked it.
Even Microsoft realises that the source code needs to be available for some projects and they have a choice of either allowing just that or losing some of the most high paying contracts.
I have read that modeling has shown improved Nuclear Deterrence from having somewhat unreliable systems for nuclear weapons delivery
In the great coordinate plain of life, we seem to have a situation where the line tracing British IQ and the line tracing the mortality of the human race are getting perilously close. I've always taken comfort in the fact that mouth breathers and knuckle draggers seemed to remain alive almost in spite of their gross stupidity. Now a bunch of twits from the dept. of silly walks decides that the most expedient means of managing a nuclear force is with an operating system whose answer to digital indigestion is at best rebooting and at worst reinstallation. I can only imagine how that might impact (and I use the word "IMPACT" in all it's most unpleasant possible meanings) a critical nuclear encounter.
Some additional new possible acronyms;
DBSD ----- Deep Blue Sea of Death
BGAD ----- Blue Glass Ashtray of Death
RBGD ----- Radioactive Blue Glow of Death
BSOA ----- Blue Screen of Armageddon
O-SHT ---- The Missile Ranger is Turning Blue Because Windows Has Wedged and He Can't Abort the Missile Launch!!!
Windows Now Runs British Royal Navy Submarines?
See, this is actually an elegant solution, as the bloat will act as a redundant buoyancy system in case of the inevitable blue-screen crush.
I think they mean that the sub was incapacitated for 18 days while a transition plan was executed.
If it really took 18 days, they wouldn't be installing Windows 2000 and Windows XP.
It is mysterious to me as to why they would use Windows. I'd also love to know what is being commanded with the system? Is it just the Naval IT? e.g, sending encrypted email, accessing charts, documentation etc, crew communications, hiding pornography, printing happy birthday banners? I doubt it is controlling ballast tanks and dive planes and I can't imagine it controlling reactor or launch functions.
And if it's just the case of internal email and minesweeper games, isn't 18 days a long time? Especially if MS decided not to include hardware transition work and training in those numbers?
What were they using before that it was so expensive?
How can 8 years of evaluation time possibly save the military 22M pounds per year?
Meh. I guess it's on MSDN, so it's going to be a *little* biased. Kudos to the MS sales team. Good job, don't know how you did it.
I can see Clipy now "It looks like you are trying to launch a nuclear misile......."
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
YES!...Uhm,No?
*mental picture*
Whoa!!v
You have confused me, GNUbee.
*Is this where I insert the dynamic duo of :
1. Get off my lawn, you young whippersnappers!
2. You must be new here!
????
3. Profit! (Why yes, I am posting while intoxicated! Sorry!)
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Never open the Windows in a submarine!
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I can't wait for the first national nuclear emergency to occur because of Windows Genuine Advantage (tm)
"Deep Six - The Blue Screen Edition"
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
Your anti-missile defense signatures appear to be out of date. Would you like to download the updates? (10,000ft under the sea)
So this Axis-of-non-metric, Liberia, Myanmar (Burma) and USA, do they all use the same systems? Burma used to be part of the British Empire so I could guess they might have legacy Imperial units from that time, but Liberia? legacy from USA?
I like the fact that the USA has gone as far as using a *simplified* version of Imperial units that used to be the measures in the UK. Not only is the USA sticking with an outmoded system, but they've even evolved it to make it easier to learn, clearly they see a future in it :-)
Ok teasing aside, can anybody from the USA pin when the simplified version came in, did the more exotic parts of Imperial measures just get gently put aside as they weren't so frequently used or was there some law passed? I heard that technically the USA uses the metric system but just hasn't got round to moving over to it in the last 37 years or so.
So, are you claiming that the road signs now indicate distances in km rather than miles? Or are we now using 'metric' miles rather than the traditional ones with 1760 yards to each of them? That would be 1760 metric yards, each of 3 metric feet in length which, in turn, contain 12 metric inches? Are horse races now measured in metric furlongs - 8 metric furlongs to each of your metric miles, perhaps?
Yep, you've convinced me than we have gone metric. Now, I'm a Brit so I might be wrong about all of this, but where are you from? It's still legal to use pounds and ounces, or gallons, or miles or any other imperial units, but you are equally welcome to use metric units if you wish.
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
What makes you think they haven't got a contract with Microsoft for access to the source code ?
Even if they do, unless they compile the source code themselves with a compiler they know they can trust there's no certainty over what is running.
Ken Thompson pointed that one out. What a lot of people don't mention is the date at the top - he pointed that one out in 1984 .
Your submarine has encountered a problem and will now close.
Sounds like sub standard software to me
Slashdot people often said that a Windows computer is only secure when encased in a steel box and sunk beneath the sea. So, why complain now?
What if it restarts at 3am because of an 'important' update? :D
You don't seriously believe that the UK Navy has not been provided with the source... that would have been a condition of the contract IMHO.
And how is backdoors/spying going to work... its a closed system.
This interesting story covers the non-windows based subs Canada purchased from the brits. Apparently, those also have glitches...
Windsor's downright freakish string of glitches will continue apparently to the end. Today, the radar mast that had filled earlier with sea water is now actually dripping into the sub's control room, the boat's nerve centre. To cope, the crew has rigged up a homemade anti-leak contraption using plastic hosing, a water bottle and duct tape.
Everybody would be laughing out loud....
40% Funny, 40% Insightful, 40% Informative, 40% Dolomite
Sounds dangerous as hell to me. It's a lot tougher to tow a submarine back to port if it's underwater and descending when it crashes.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
"General Protection Fault"
Your convoy is no longer protected.
All jokes aside, wouldn't it be a huge risk to the systems integrity and stability to use windows because of the vast amount of malware that affects windows? Even with the most stringent regulations put in place for the use of the computers, I don't see how they could totally prevent such an occurrence, or at least be 100% sure that it wouldn't occur. It just seems to be such a silly sort of operating system to use for such a task, and their potential short-term savings will possibly be negated by the potential negative consequences that could occur with using windows where stability is a huge requirement.
Holy hell, are you on meth?
-The world would be a better place if everyone had a hoverboard
no really when i was young there was jokes about irish people and one was "how can you tell an Irish submarine... it has windows" ok it was funny
I detest MS and their Windows OS... but setting that aside for a moment, who was the jackass who set up this deal?!
If the RN pays like the US Navy, for 22k Pounds, they could have an extra guy on board to administer Linux or BSD boxen.
Yeesh!
We joke about Microsoft all the time here, but stuff like this shows that Windows is still significant enough to be installed on critical systems instead of some customized Linux distro, which is what WE'D have hoped.
Let's face it, Windows isn't going to die no matter what people say. Linux will have to fight even harder to stay significant, somehow.
Yes, but even if the source is provided, it does raise some questions:
-does the navy just accept the source, but not compile it as the final product, taking the binary as-is or compiled by Microsoft?, essentially nixing the open sourcing security benefts in the first place
-do they have to compile it with Visual Studio? or any x86 compiler will do?
I believe Ken Thompson himself installed a compiler (relatively benign) trojan that survived many years without detection. And this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=bv2n6o_6LaQC&pg=PA378&lpg=PA378&dq=%22ken+thompson%22+compiler+trojan&source=bl&ots=c-sXYKAlKw&sig=nhoa4LVar3Y3j2aLmcqqtAoxjFo&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result
And the licensees could also compile from this source themselves, using a compiler of choice?
If not, this is not security, this is security theater, which is far worse than no security at all.
Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
It's a govenment IT project it will go over budget, be 20 years late and will fail before it goes live. They will then take the project leader transfer him to another department and give him a new expensive team of consultants who say it the new project is not feasible and the cycle will start all over again.
Nobody here has actually seen the software they will be using. I think that if the techicians behind the equipment are happy with a modded Windows environment then they are probably more qualified to make this decision than anyone here. Windows is alot more stable than people here give it credit for, but I can see that many of the Linux fanboys have alterior motives and exaggerate the problems with Windows. I also use Linux but I accept that Windows is better in some situations. I certainly don't think open source software would be suitable for this kind of system. If people have source then it's easier to find exploits.
Windows is suited for this job, as it is also designed to go down
Submarines tend to sink when you open windows
Surely there is a lot more, but right now I can't think of them
I am not stubborn. I am right!
The submarine has been updated and needs to reboot to complete the installation. Do you want to reboot now? the submarine will automatically reboot in 30 seconds. *Do not reboot the submarine outside of drydock, for more information see the correct winsub knowledgebase article.
For real Navy incompetence, you need to look no further than John Jervis, Lord St. Vincent. His idea of blockade was so close that its main danger was to his own ships, which were often wrecked close inshore. Appointed to shore command, he couldn't see the need for all those people working in shipyards. So he sacked 20% of them and cut the pay of the rest. Hence Nelson's depleted fleet at Trafalgar. Making stupid decisions to cut costs has a long history in the Navy, beginning with the aftermath of the Armada.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Source sharing is stupid, it prevent you to use the source to build you own binary version of the OS.
Thus, you got no way to make sure the binary version you run is actually comming from the source code you have been given.
With such a context, if there were backdoors, do you think you would let them in ? or do you think you would remove them knowing that people would not be able to see you made a change ;-)
Considering that the UK lease their submarine nukes from the US, the availability of the Windows source is probably the least of their problems.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
Windows isn't going to die no matter what people say.
... The driver for the "reactor temperature regulator" is not compatible with this live update. To ensure stability of your system the "reactor temperature regulator" driver has not been loaded. Please consult your hardware manufacturer to see if an updated driver is available.
Remember? AFAIK US Submarines use a version of windows NT.
The botnet guys are about to get their very own remote-controlled submarines!!
What makes you think they don't do that too?
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
A reported last year HMS Windows also in use on warships http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/26/windows_boxes_at_sea/
To make a fair assessment, we would need to know what they ran on before. I *can* imagine this being perceived as a better solution than some acient system that hasn't been maintained in ages.
What a depressingly stupid machine.
I would love to see a group of 100 Microsoft executives taken down thousands of feet under the ocean's surface and then informed that the entire vessel is run under a Microsoft Windows operating network. With bio-monitoring devices attached to each of them, I have to wonder how many of them would not cringe at the news that their safety was in the hands of their "no longer supported" operating systems.
I am not sure how we could work Samuel L Jackson into this plot, but it would make a pretty funny movie, I think. "Das-Reboot"
In reality, the source code for Windows 2000 is pretty widely available.
Been on a motorway lately? Notice how the junction signs tell you 2/3 miles to next junction, 1/3 mile to next junction? They are actually 1 Km and 1/2 Km distances. It's metrication by stealth. When they change over, all they have to do is put metric stickers over the distances.
.... where when they had a problem, they could easily reprogram the computer....
Try that with a damned closed source OS... I can't believe the government/military would trust security to something they don't even know how really works.
Buanzo Consulting - 15 Years of GNU/Linux experience, for you.
Just came here to say "Das Reboot" in a random place.
No sig today...
How stupid to run such critical machines on such a creaky operating system. Ah, the power of marketing!
If the UK no longer responds to messages and they have reason to believe this is due to war damage, they open their sealed, handwritten letter from the Prime Minister. This contains their instructions. There is of course much speculation as to what it contains, ranging from "Hi, welcome to the US Navy" to "I told them Iraq had WMDs, but would they listen?". Sadly, barring a takeover of the UK by pacifists, we will never find out.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Uhmm...No.
Just the joy of life and a little caffeine, why?
Is this a problem for you?
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Not much "Up" time needed here .. I guess
I quote from MS server EULA: "not designed, manufactured, or intended for use or resale as on-line control equipment in hazardous environments requiring fail-safe performance, such as in the operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines, or weapons systems," only :)
somewhat out of context
I think this is a two staged approach. They run something else to drive into enemy territory, then they switch over to windows and chaos and terror is spread. Kinda like Kamikaze-Windows.
before flamebait-tagging me, please read.
Given the fact that Linux is built mostly by anonymous contributors, kept on servers which are hacked every now and then (Fedora Signing Key Server Hacked in August - Red Hat Infrastructure Servers recently Hacked, Cracked & Compromised) what guarantee is there that Linux - God's gift to nerds - doesn't contain sleeping trojans written by Russians or Chinese ?
Do the math: what would it cost to accomplish this? I think something like less than 10.000$ (including paycheck, laptop and broadband connection).
"Violence is the last refuge of the competent, and, generally, the first refuge of the incompetent" - Thing_1
Yes, one ping, and one ping only please. Preferably with a malcrafted ICMP header.
If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
What OS does the US use on its nuclear subs?
What viable alternatives did the Brits have at the time they choose Windows 2000?
...it looks like you're trying to fire a torpedo. What would you like to do?
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I Wonder is my life really only worth 22M pounds. I Wonder if I can Sue the UK government for endangering my life ? I wonder if this should be done through UN ?
Talk about being blinded by your bias.
I know everyone hates Microsoft and everything but slashDot really should exercise some editorial review. If they want to be a "news" site then they really should cut out things that are clearly biased.
I'll try anything once. Twice if it tastes good
How is this any different to open source though?
Would they be any less or more likely to do a full audit of that and the compiler used to build it?
. . . Clippy!
What?
I'm trying to think of the fun I could have with windows on a sub, a projector, a 3D virtual fish screen saver, several speakers, and a bucket of water when someone opens a door.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Reminds me of another time microsoft made sure the English saved a lot of money. The links:
Really?!
Oh.
--- guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people ---
I get that submarines need computer systems, but my thinking was that they were meant to be discreet custom systems with redundant backups - so you'd have one for propulsion, one for missile control, one for life support etc. Surely having several systems controlled by one computer system is a step backward. A virus that gets into navigation now affects lighting...
So the time to pay back this "investment" is over ten years? It's not worth it.
Brings a new meaning to CRASH DIVE!!!
A lot of shorter distances are given in metres too. I remember a few years back coming across a sign on the canal towpath near the centre of Birmingham that said: "Wolverhampton 12m", then below that "Birmingham University 500m".
Arrr Captian, can't get her to run any faster!!
We got Vista...
They might have done, but I have serious doubts that there exists any modern C compiler can easily be built without a pre-existing compiler of some sort to bootstrap it.
That they would put this on a war ship indicates that politics was put in front of technology. Sorry, say what you want Microsoft and its apologists, Windows is neither reliable nor secure. That is a fact, not an opinion.
This isn't flame bait and I won't respond to anyone who wants to debate the facts because they are, in fact, fact.
The last 8 years has made it virtually impossible to state something conclusively without some "independent" group disputing the facts with junk science or out right lies. This tactic has paralyzed efforts from anti-smoking to global warming.
It allows people with a vested interest to force a debate of facts at the "policy" level by people who can easily be confused by carefully crafted BS. This is the tactic: they can't win the debate amongst experts, so they create a bogus dispute of facts with FUD or astro-turf, and then force people who don't know the background to decide between facts and factiness. (apologies to Stephen Colbert)
now that M$ has raised the price of Vista to XP downgrades.
Hi there! This is Eddie, your shipboard computer, and I'm feeling just great, guys, and I know I'm just going to get a bundle of kicks out of any program you care to run through me. Just don't ask the Nutri-Matic for a cup of tea! Or we can just call the whole thing the Frogstar and have a situation like this... "The thing he realized about the windows was this: because they had been converted into openable windows after they had first been designed to be impregnable, they were, in fact, much less secure than if they had been designed as openable windows in the first place."
As an ex US Navy Submariner as well as a MSCSE, There is no way in HELL I would dive on a sub running Windows
Royal subs sinking to the bottom of the ocean as all ballast blew do to a new Trojan that run on port 445 and places a svchost.exe file in the Windows/Security folder. Lucky subs were shallow enough to not implode at too great a depth. Microsoft is working on a patch and Symantec can't understand how the Trojan managed to bypass their fine suite of military antivirus applications.
News at 11.
"We can't fire our torpedoes, Sir, the system is rebooting! And it could take awhile. Someone loaded Weatherbug, Yahoo! Toolbar, and and Gator on this thing not to mention Norton will do a full system scan on boot!"
Captain: Ah, we're going to have to make an emergency surface, its Patch Tuesday again, and Windows Genuine Advantage is getting anxious to phone home. C'mon, Malicious Software Removal Tool, install already. Oh, hay guys, hold a sec, gotta reboot this thi--
*facepalm*
A 24 million expenditure for a savings of 22 million? How's that work?
Next we'll hear that the sub designers chose Lucas for the electrics.
First of all, I find the notion that the UK would send a SUBMARINE to log on to the INTERNET rather silly... I'm sure their department of defense has internet access... no need to go wifi war-diving :)
That said - and assuming you intended to present the more plausible scenario of hacking into the protected wifi network of the coastal palace of . Connecting surveillance equipment directly to the ships network would be extremely poor practice, not matter what operating system it is running.
Such systems are usually isolated.
As for internal threats - soldiers bringing media onboard from home and such: from my experience in the field, such military systems are usually hardened in a manner that you would need a set of wrenches, the admin password, and some wires and assorted spare hardware in order to plug in something you brought from home. This has yet to stop soldiers from doing so - but in this case the correct approach is disciplinary - since I doubt any security system, on windows or any other os, could stand between a sailor on a six month underwater mission and his porn.
Hopefully they have non networked recreational PCs for that purpose...
Didn't the EULA on XP say not to run medical equipment, ... , Nuclear Power Plants, life-critical devices in relatively straightforward terms?
Actually, Microsoft has been providing military and government agencies with the source code of windows for quite some time now
I hope they don't carry any nuclear missiles, cause this could end up disastrous. In case they do, .. I wonder what they where running before that.
Soon "Taliban looks for scriptkiddies trainers"
Guess it would have been much safer to use a customized Linux OS, where you have to press CTRL+ALT+Backspace three times to restart the X server. A KDE 4 version would have worked wonders. "Abort missile launch, can't, KDE is restarting X".
They're probably saving 22 mil in taxpayer money because they're using Windows and not Linux :)
Rum, sodomy and the crash!
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
He just means you are spazzing out like a typical 14 year old who discovered the internets for the first time. Typically this involves people mentioning a website they aren't supposed to mention. Hint: it's the one where the funny pictures tend to come from.
Upgrading to Vista requires the subs be replaced with Vista Certified Subs.
What you say is perfectly true, though I'm not sure that improves matters. If business had to work on a total non-screw-up policy, I doubt many would succeed. (Personally, what kept me out of the Navy was claustrophobia...I'd rather be rained on in a gale on the surface than safe in any space below decks. Irrational but there you are.) But what my colleague said is also true. If a sub captain decides on an attack, and it was a tactical mistake, everybody has the same risk of battle regardless of how well they do their jobs. There are many other hazardous military positions where there is some scope for individual initiative even in an attack. The chance of survival may be little better, but for some people any chance is better than no chance out of all proportion to the odds.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
As a former Submarine Sailor this just scares the crap out of me!
Windows in any critical environment is a disaster waiting to happen.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
NOOOOOO!!!!!
Is it just me or does the math not work? They spent £24.5 million and will save taxpayers £22 million over 10 years. So why didn't they just not spend the excess £2.5 million? And that folks is why you don't let the government spend money.
--- This
... a counter intelligence ploy.
Sure, they are *saying* they are installing Windows, trying to entice foreign national spies into attempting to access and hack the sub network and systems.
Of course, what *really* happened is that the systems are really specialized SE Linux distro, with a small Windows pseudo-shell which will make a hacker *think* he is accessing the submarine's network. However, the design of this system is to allow the computer system time enough to lock onto the source of the hacking, feed that position into the guidance system of a missile, and then blow the fricken hacker into a quickly dissipating puff of vapor.
Windows in a sensor-to-shooter link.
Sensor: target acquired, moving at Mach 2.1134, vector x/y (whatever). Now rebooting. Shooter: Windows has detected new hardware, do you want to "Search on the Internet" (etc).
Was there any *specific* reason to turn them into sitting ducks, or just general malice or incompetence?
Insert
The Lusitania was a Cunard liner.
In 1915 nothing on this Earth could be more British. She was torpedoed just south of Queenstown, Ireland, on May 7, 1915. The ship went down in 18 minutes. 1,195 died, including 123 Americans. The U.S. was a neutral in 1915 and her ports were open to ships of all nations. The Lost Liners - Lusitania [Robert Ballard, PBS 2000]
That Japan was about to make a move against the U.S. was known.
But where?
The Pearl Harbor attack was a hit and run raid, and, in the end, the attack bought Japan only six months of naval superiority in the Pacific. Pearl, after all, was nothing more or less than a forward naval base. It wasn't where ships were being built or men being trained. It wasn't rubber or oil or other strategic materials. Report Debunks Theory That the U.S. Heard a Coded Warning About Pearl Harbor [Dec 6, 2008]
Tonkin didn't feel like a virtual battle to those who fought in it. Anatomy of a crisis [March 2004], What Should We Tell Our Children About Vietnam? [May 1988]
There was - let us say - fair reason to be a tad suspicious about Iraq's abandonment of WMDs:
In 1995, UNSCOM's principal weapons inspector..showed Taha documents...that showed the Iraqi government had just purchased 10 tons of growth medium. Iraq's hospital consumption of growth medium was just 200 kg a year; yet in 1988, Iraq imported 39 tons of it. Shown this evidence by UNSCOM, Taha admitted to the inspectors that she had grown 19,000 litres of botulism toxin; 8,000 litres of anthrax; 2,000 litres of aflatoxins, which can cause liver failure; Clostridium perfringens, a bacterium that can cause gas gangrene; and ricin, a castor-bean derivative which can kill by impeding circulation. She also admitted conducting research into cholera, salmonella, foot and mouth disease, and camel pox, a disease that uses the same growth techniques as smallpox, but which is safer for researchers to work with. It was because of the discovery of Taha's work with camel pox that the U.S. and British intelligence services feared Saddam Hussein may have been planning to weaponize the smallpox virus. Iraq and weapons of mass destruction
_____
* - Spell-checking is built into Firefox and the ieSpellplug-in has been around for quite some time as well.
Four!
1. To press <CTRL>
2. To press <ALT>
3. To press <DEL>
4. To find labels for the keys in the submarine control center
To do what? It's not like it's the era of Lord Nelson.
now nicknamed "u-reBoot".
In Soviet Russia, our new overlords are belong to all your base.
MS life-support Cycle http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;%5Bln%5D;lifesupsps
You can't buy it http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx
"No further updates planned."
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/servicepacks.mspx
Ok, my bad. Extended service ends 2010, so by the time they get the bugs out of it they will need to upgrade.
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifean36
"It was a bug, yes, that's it. Some kind of unfortunate bug triggered the 19-step launch sequence,"
Nothing is that complicated when you have Clippy. "I see you are trying to launch a nuclear weapon. Would you like some help?"
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
Imagine a botnet of these...
Even more scary than the BSOD (S as in Submarine) metioned above
cheers!
in the UK we've been officially metric since oooh about 1970 I think but people still use a mix and seem to move between each fluidly. I am 42 and got taught metric-only in schools from when I started in 1971, so anybody my age and younger was definitely taught metric only at school. Like with you, the early adopters were engineers and scientists, my 75 year old dad generally 'thinks' in imperial measures (inches) but is very comfortable working in mm - I think he learnt his trade in Imperial but as an engineer took on metric as a necessary skill.
Funny thing is that a lot of younger people who clearly were only taught in metric can still move between the two systems - I can ask my 25 year old mates to cut a piece of timber 3 inches or a foot long and they'll do it no problem. We still use miles for roadsigns and distances on highway signs even though we officially measure in metres and kilometres. But I think this is familiarity through their relatives and elder peers, if I asked them how many feet were in a yard or how many yards are in a mile I think they'd be really stuck and not have a clue.
You still get the odd "metric martyr" market trader who gets hauled up before the courts for selling their fruit and veg in Imperial units only (pounds and ounces) but the way that they make national media suggests they are pretty rare. Most people shift between the two systems and I think it just takes 40 years or so for the older system to disappear. Certainly my old dad could tell you how many yards are in a chain or a furlong but I'd have to look it up and my 25 year old mates would probably think you're making up some of the Imperial measures.... (perches, hundredweights, gills, etc).
less nukes on the world to worry about. great news.
Read radical news here
Emphasis is mine. The original was in all caps, I have removed them to defeat the lameness filter.
Seems to me that a nuke sub is a nuclear facility and a weapons system.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
The first day was spent installing the operating system an applications. The remaining 17 days on installing patches and rebooting.
I wonder, does a submarine float or sink when it reboots? Could be quite comical. :)
Launching Missiles .. Missle Launch Canceled ..
.. :]
Confirm Cancelation of Missile Launch:
Press YES | YES to ALL | NO | CANCEL
davecb5620@gmail.com
Windows on a submarine... great idea!
Let me get this straight, they are investing £24.5m NOW, to save £22m over 10 years.
Can someone show me what I missed ?
morcego
If the system were really defined around a sensible number base, we would all be working in base 12 - divides by 2,3,4 and 6. All we need is to modify the human race with a couple of extra fingers - are you game?
"Didn't the EULA on XP say not to run medical equipment, ... , Nuclear Power Plants"
..
No it doesn't, it does say that the entire liability of the seller is the amount actually paid or US$5.00
davecb5620@gmail.com
I do hope they got the source code to the OS (yeah, right...) to properly 'vet it. Personally, I think they are totally nuts to rely on any proprietary OS for such needs. Even Fermi Lab has their own Linux version (based on RHEL), and the cost is just the engineering time to make the mods they need for the type of HPC requirements found in particle physics, and most of that is "contributed" by physics and CS graduate students around the world. So we get several benefits here: 1. No on-going licensing fees 2. A system that enjoys 6-sigma uptime in the most demanding environments 3. Opportunities for the technical education community to work on and help design/develop cutting-edge systems 4. The community gets well-engineered enhancements (security, parallel processing, performance, etc) to the OS If you are interested, Fermi Lab's Linux is available on their web site: www.fnal.gov
Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
No offense, I think this is a little short sighted. I think the number one thing we have learned in this age is that INFORMATION is power. Stopping one missile is pointless, and gives away a powerful strategic advantage. Knowing what is going on, or even something as simple as knowing how often communications are taking place would give a strong advantage. Watch how they respond to various situations, or just know where they all are.
These systems aren't so stupid that they don't have mechanical safeties or backup systems.
The real weakness that will exist will be in what can be passively observed due to weakness. Think of a spy movie (or history); do they ever use the under cover operative to perform an assassination? Course not, it would be a terrible waste of a resource. Operatives report on targets daily routines, and think tanks look for weaknesses.
On another note, the main systems may be windows, but I highly doubt certain modules would be running windows. They would have proprietary systems that are purpose-built. There are also weaknesses in Intel/x86 chips that really wouldn't make them very good for weapons.
Something comforting, Military does get a different version of windows. The NSA may require certain back doors, but the military doesn't need to have them. Military also gets an open-source version of windows. You really think they are going to let Microsoft compile a binary for such an expensive piece of machinery? At least in the US, military required Microsoft to let them review, revise, and compile the code on their own, or they would not do any business with Microsoft. Too much security at risk otherwise. They just are not to share that code with anyone else.
Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
Good choice, finally a scenario where a blue screen reboot can literally mean holding your breath. *GASP* damn you preboot scan disk! *croak*
Its all well and good that Microsoft provides source code to special customers who demand an extra level of conformance and security but that still leaves a big question: Is code on the DVDs delivered on the DVD really the code that is on the install disk? The only way to be sure is to build it themselves.
This a real benefit to open source is and makes it somewhat valuable and something Shared Source continues to miss. If you have no confidence that there is something nefarious in Windows, just looking at the source code but then accepting another disk to install isn't exactly proving anything.
Not only does the "track record" of Microsoft and the NSA make one suspect "back doors" in Windows products are conceivable -- but the history of US govt. and their paranoia over computer encryption adds further credence to the idea.
When Phil Zimmermann started working on PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) software back in 1991, it only took a year or so for federal govt. to start harassing him, even filing criminal charges against him for violating the "Arms Export Control Act".
(Never mind the fact he never even released PGP outside the United States. The mere fact that people outside the US decided to download copies and use them on their own was enough to scare the US govt.)
Do you know what does Windows and a submarine have in common?
Both will stop working as soon as you open a window....
I couldn't help but think about this after reading the article...
At a computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release (by Mr. Welch himself) stating:
If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine.
4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on.
5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats.
6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five per cent of the roads.
7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light.
8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt.
9. The airbag would say 'Are you sure?' before going off.
10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna.
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.
12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.
if I were able to see further, it was because I stood on the shoulders of Giants -Newton
Didn't they try this on the Yorktown in 1997 and have to tow the ship back to port?
I doubt they factored in the barrage of monthly managed services consulting. It's be more like "...cost the taxpayers an additional 22M a year". I've always wanted to know how long a Windoze Configurator could hold his breath...
Windows seems to be a good-enough choice for any military application. Except that your average security guy will warn you of the 'security through obscurity' : closed source doesn't mean safe source. I do think the U.K. had to review the kernel's code a fair bit before doing that, or else we are in trouble.
I am more concerned by the fact that the windows kernel is somewhat poor security wise, and that the average windows developper can't do shit if its program doesn't run as root err administrator. Trying to mingle Windows and security is difficult for this reason alone.
Botnet Submersible Of Doom....
ruurd
I like how the Dutch have done it, as described some by A. Coward in this post. Simply speaking, the pound was redefined as 500mg, and the pint as 500ml. Both new definitions are only minor adjustments from the previous ones, as a pound is already precious close to half a kilo, and a pint to half a litre. (The only oddball conversion-wise was the ounce, which in the Netherlands is now 100mg -- 16ths don't translate very well into decimal systems. :) Perhaps something similar would work in the UK?
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Now before anyone ramps up, no, there's no hacking to be done since secure networks are on their own and it's hard to port scan a network 2 miles under water. Most people, gov'ies included, hate Vista.
Don't people ever learn from history? Windows has NEVER been able to handle real-world mission critical operations, those have always been the domain of more reliable systems.
Doesn't the British government remember when the USS Yorktown's Windows NT5 (aka server 2000) blue-screened last year and had to be towed back to port?
You can't tow a submerged submarine back to port.
Das Reboot.
Bingo! And there you have one *very* important distinction between an engineer and a craftsman -- the engineer deals more with theory and should-bes and measured reproduceability, while the craftsman deals more with practicalities and what is right in front of them. An engineer's approach to cabinetry would be very different, but when it comes to furniture, FWIW I'll take the craftsman's work any day. :)
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
The US Navy tried this a few years back and the ships systems crashed and had to be towed back to port by tug boats when a Divide by Zero fault came up in the navigation system which then cascaded and crashed the entire ships network leaving her dead in the water. Look up the cruiser USS Yorktown. Apparently its true, History is doomed to repeat itself.
And, incidentally, a pound and a pint are basically the same thing, as are a tun and a ton -- assuming 16oz of water volume-wise weighs 16oz (not a bad working assumption for human-scale tolerances -- see more at Liter):
The imprecision and arbitrariness of the old English units used in the US can be maddening, but the binary nature does make them rather appealing in some ways.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Gold is just plain worth more.
(Laugh. It's a joke.)
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
When the U.S. Navy announced that they were moving to Windows for a lot of operational systems, all those of us who flew Navy aircraft could immediately picture a scenario where the glass cockpit in our fighter/patrol plane/helicopter suffered a "Blue Screen of Death": the problem is that chances of actually dying if this occurs are pretty close to 100%. The equation looked like this to us: ([naval aircraft]+[Windows])*[Blue Screen of Death]=DEATH. At least the fighter pilots have the option of punching out (damn them); the rest of us would just die.
The recent and very public Windows security breach and the long horrible history of Windows security is being ignored. So who will be the first script kiddy who commands a nuclear submarine? And who will they target?
DAMN IT, not another BSOD.
Gives new and scary meaning blue screen of death. If a BSOD happens on a critical nuclear monitoring system, we have an "oh shit" of epic porportion. I don't see how an OS that you have to purchase will save money in 10 years. Sounds like more FUD.
I wonder if they thought about maintenance costs when considering the total cost. I assume there is a lot of data that they need to acquire and analyze - if they want to use windows, shouldn't they be using something that is more reliable? That would suck if they are in the midst of intercepting enemy transition and the OS tells them they need to defrag their HD.
All joking asside ... Windows is not a suprising choice considering that MS's support is actually very good. Well managed Windows XP is very stable, and it looks like this is even customised for this purpose.
A windows (or any OS) network sealed in a box 1000 feet under the ocean with no form of internet connection is the very definition of secure.
I used to look after locked-down Windows XP machines running a range of factory equipment. A "open systems" expert I was showing around balked at the site of WinXP running some pretty heavy weight stuff. In reality we seldom had a problem with the actual OS, only 3rd party driver issues and hardware failures, and of course meatspace exception errors: user failure.
The only real threat in this case is a submariner with malicious intent, but they have many other ways of sabotaging a sub, and indeed the windows boxes won't be running critical systems.
It's almost disappointing but we won't be hearing about windows subs trapped on the sea floor any time soon.
Ok you can go back to joking now.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Ask NASA whether they wish the US had converted to metric 20 years ago.
reminds me of this joke
http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_2005620.asp
wpgrep -c "/(reboot|BSOD)/" http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/18/006226
32^E I've run out of numbers.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
The Aegis Cruiser Yorktown [In service 1984-2004] was chosen in 1995 as the first "smart ship."
The test bed.
Test beds are pushed to failure.
The core technologies installed in YORKTOWN [were] a 16 workstation fiber optic Local Area Network (LAN), Integrated Bridge System (IBS), Voyage Management System (VMS), Damage Control System(DCS), Integrated Conditioning and Assessment System (ICAS), HYDRA wireless communication system, and Standard Machinery Control System (SMCS)
The Yorktown's last saw combat service in the Gulf in 2004. USS Yorktown CV-10 Association
It says something when you have to go back twelve years to make your point - and all you have to point to is a single incident in the introduction of COTS technology.
The Nimitz-class carrier USS Ronald Reagan runs Windows.
For projects on this scale, Microsoft Federal Systems becomes a sub-contractor working with the largest and most experienced of military contractors.
The submarines are British built & designed, as are the warheads. The only American bit are the missiles.
Microsoft has no problem exposing Windows source code to the Royal Navy:
The United Kingdom is the latest country to join a Microsoft programme that lets governments around the world see the otherwise secret source code underlying Windows.
Microsoft unveiled the Government Security Program (GSP) two weeks ago as a way to address concerns various governments have about the security of its Windows operating system.
The programme, widely viewed as Microsoft's response to the complete openness of the open-source movement, already includes Russia and the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) as members. Under Microsoft's new programme, governments may visit Microsoft's campus, see the millions of lines of source code that make up Windows, run analysis tools on the source code and build versions of Windows for themselves from the raw materials. Officials will be able to see source code for Windows 2000, XP, Server 2003 and CE. UK government gets access to Windows source code [Feb 3, 2003]
In the years since, access to the Windows source code has become rather easy for the student or the developer: Microsoft Expands Access to Windows Source Code {Jul 2004], Microsoft Shared Source Initiative
I would also humbly suggest that if that if your cyber intelligence is so limited that you haven't been able to deconstruct Win2K in eight years, you have no business building military grade submersibles.
2. You must be new here!
No, I be new here!
I got some bad grammar
I've wished for years that Microsoft would go under, but this isn't quite what I was hoping for.
I'm guessing that after it was demonstrated to the Navy that using Windows was likely to get their ships sunk, Microsoft argued that that would mesh perfectly with their submarine fleet.
I thought the warheads were American as well. Of course, the truly paranoid might worry about the existence of a kill switch in the missiles.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
...to automatically open and close the screen doors they've used to replace the hatches.
There's obviously nothing stopping you from compiling it (after all, the resulting binary will be indistinguishable from the original, assuming no backdoors), but I doubt it'll compile with anything but MSVC. Of course, you'll probably get the sources to MSVC as well, but then you'll have to find something to compile that with. Hmm... Intel?
This really isn't a problem that's not present with F/OSS, though. Even with g++, you still cannot trust the binaries provided by third parties, nor can you trust the binaries you compile yourself because the compiler you use may insert backdoors into generated code; so you have to prove that it is secure itself, and at that point we come full circle.
I think you misunderstood me in several ways. The submarine is entirely passive, it simply listens, records, and performs analysis of radiated energy. You can find the internet 'everywhere' - including satellite, but parking ones submarine in a city harbour also means one has the opportunity to intercept a lot of interesting stuff, everything within range of the receive systems. No need to log on to anything.
It's interesting to see several people draw the analogy that a submarine is a disconnected unit, and that viruses could not spread through systems on board the sub itself. This is a good point for sure, and for the most part it is true enough, but the bigger picture is a little different. Electronic warfare kit doesn't exist in a bubble. The submarine will eventually offload data, communicate with its owners, and generally have people lugging its hard drives from point a to point b once back in port
That rack of sunblades in back might be immune to virus, but there's no telling what kind of systems are used to trawl through data on those machines, including systems on board the sub itself.
I think most people would be utterly surprised at just how much latitude the average sailor has in his or her work space, particularly in the areas my post covers. Sticking your head in the back of the rack and wiring up your own idea of 'the right way to do things' is not uncommon. If it works better, then it is better. You're the expert in your field, nobody will tell you you can't do it. If you break it, you better be able to fix it though :-) (Or come up with good excuses: "Just fell apart in my hands chief")
install computer systems in the world's nuclear submarines which will follow your command when given the correct trigger.
check.
Calling MS Tech support from a submarine? Or logging on to windows update to patch security holes? Come on now, if the thing works, and you can reinstall it at pleasure without having to activate it each time, then you don't care about support. It doesn't need to be updated if it works right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY
It's not just the subs. You have to use Microsoft Internet Explorer if you want to become a citizen of the UK, too:
Life in the UK - Accessibility
I'm prety sure "KNucSub" on a real OS would work better than "Submarine Ultimate®" on that "thing"
4 - A robot may not masturbate, except where such action would conflict with the Second Law.
just wondering
Ask Me About... The 80's!
At least Microsoft OS`s did a good job of keeping the London Stock Exchange running... Until they didn't.
Well...
Some of us are just borne too loose.
-
.
.
- aqk
F U
Well,
In Soviet Navy, Windows runs YOU!
-
.
.
- aqk
F U
... coming back up again is.
Now it's official, Sir, Windows is sub-standard
May be this will be the first time something using Windows won't sink.
"...Talk about staying with the sinking ship" it says, at the end of the summary, but the true purpose of the article and its summary is to promote Microsoft products.
The real WTF is running a consumer OS on a submarine, with consumer hardware - most of which, if you look at the data sheets for the ICs, say "not to be used in life critical systems". I think pretty much any system on a sub could be considered life critical.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Even if they do, unless they compile the source code themselves with a compiler they know they can trust there's no certainty over what is running.
So exactly the same problem they'd face with Open Source, then ?
So exactly the same problem they'd face with Open Source, then ?
Pretty much, yes. Certainly GCC needs a functioning C 90 compiler to bootstrap itself. I'd be surprised if there exists a compiler in common use today for which something similar isn't true.
If they only had done this before Falklands War...
In other words, they are F'd......
It is a shame the british navy is now using gatekeeper software. I thought win2k was dead, Why would anyone want to use unsupported os. They may think it is cheaper now, wait till they get the first virus. It will happen. Why would you not use fiber instead of ethernet for the major cabling. Using ethernet is very slow and like having an antenna so anyone can get into your system. One screaming nic and that system is history. God help the free world with that choice. The British have always been known for their tech saavy. Not anymore.