Metallica Vs. Harvard

King_B writes "Metallica is taking a stand against major universities by requesting a restriction on the use of Napster." I hear They Might Be Giants is gonna respond by going after universities that use NFS.

Comments

Dr. Laura

[LafinJack]

Dr. Dre is a doctor just like Dr. Laura.

Read: not a doctor.

The one and (thankfully) only,

LafinJack

Re:Burns my ass.....

[avail]

You paid 18.00 for a CD becuase that's what it was worth to you. Why should a company sell something for less than people are willing to pay for it? What sense does that make. The demand for music dictates the price.

This is the way I look at it. I pay $20 for the "A Perfect Circle" album that just came out. Now I DID have the album on MP3 before it came out, but bought the CD the day it was released. I paid for it, and have listened to it maybe 50-60 times since I bought it. Counting the 50-60 times I listened to the album on MP3, that makes my cost around 20 cents for each listening. Now if I told you that you could listen to any album once for a quarter, you'd think it was a great deal. I mean, you pay $11 (CDN) for a movie you see once in the theatre.

The fact of the matter is that CD's are WORTH that much becuase they provide long-term value. A CD lasts 10yrs+, and does not really degrade it quality. So the record company gets a one time profit from your purchase.

If you don't think $18 is fair for the CD. DON'T BUY IT. Why should it be cheaper just becuase you don't want to pay for it? I want to buy a car for $10 but that's not going to happen. Should I use that for justification to steal?

Re:Did anyone catch...

[The-Bus]

I do think the MTV viewers know what they are doing... To some extent. About 30 seconds into introducing Blink 182 (the final act), Lars Ulrich got booed, and it didn't stop until he left the stage.

Re:Copying in the Library??

[Christopher Bibbs]

I noticed that part of their letter, too. Anyone who think about it will realize that library does allow copying and its called fair use.

Hmmm... maybe the university should take the same attitude towards Napster. A "Napster card" where you prepay for the bandwidth you're going to use and they just trust you to "Do The Right Thing" (tm). Of course I'm being a little silly, but I think you get the idea.

Re:Who needs Napster (tm) at a College?

[leko]

You could just run your own DNS, or use someone elses non censored server....

Re:who rocks the house?

[AbbyNormal]

Hmmmm. I seem to recall a line from a (can't remember) Rage Against the Machine that fits this quite well:

"There's nothin propa bout your propaganda".

Re:Ya know what we need?

[iceT]

I guess I should have spelled the logic out.

The 'logical or ethical' idea for the 'counter suit' would depend on WHY they blocked the ports in the first place. If they blocked Napster because they were sued by someone (a la Metallica), then the counter-suite would be both 'logical and ethical'. They (the university) are limiting artist X's desire to use the Napster service over artist Y's desire NOT to. Remember, it's not illegal to share files, it's illegal to share copyrighted files without the copyright-holders permission. Napster is no more illegal than HTTP, FTP, NFS, DFS, UUCP.... you name it. It's only illegal when it distributes illegal CONTENT.

Now, if they blocked it because of bandwidth concerns, or some other non-lawsuit, End-user usage agreement, or related issue, then I guess that Artist X wouldn't have much of a case, and it would be between the students and the administration, huh?

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[Whizard]

If you want to hear TMBG's thoughts on Napster, take a listen to the Marketplace show with John Flansburg's commentary on Napster. It's some interesting food for thought, and it's nice to know that at least some musicians have a clue.

You'll have to forward to about 11:20 in the RealAudio file to get to the right place.

If Metallica sues CMU...

[Redglasses]

...wouldn't that be impeding my education by either raising my tution or dropping the quality of education I receive for it? I could sue for that. 8,000 student class action!

Re:Someone has the right idea...

[Coward Anonymous]

Actually, "education" in this context sounds more like "re-education" which in turn sounds like "either you do what we say or we send you off to Siberia..."

Re:Copying in the Library??

[warlock]

Not a reply really, merely adding some thoughts/facts.

Of course its perfectly legal to photocopy stuff from books at a library - it's fair use.

At least here in Greece, and in the UK where I studied for a few years, copying for personal use and research was specifically excempted from copyright restrictions. As a matter of fact, its the ONLY way to access journals at the library here, because you cannot loan them. You're supposed to photocopy what you want and return them within an hour - you cannot check them out under any circumstances.

These exceptions are in place because frankly, they make sense. How on earth would one be supposed to study or do research otherwise? There's a reason library subscriptions or academic institution subscriptions are overpriced.

-W

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[Speed Racer]

Best TMBG lyric ever:

Now it's over I'm dead and I haven't done anything that I want
Or, I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do

Not Liable?

[Woundweavr]

It seems to me that Universities wouldn't be liable for what travels over its networks. In the US, its my understanding that ISPs can't be held responsible for the uses that its customers put their bandwidth to. Why would a university be any different? Most charge a fee for ethernet hookup, thus becoming at the bare minimum a de facto ISP.

But then IANAL. Could someone who is shed some light?

On the contrary.

[photozz]

How 'bout we sue you for being an idiot instead.
Yawhatever :b
If you object to the refrence, I would expect a coherent response. the paralel seems good to me. Metalica is suing napster and the schools to recover their "lost profits"...
Shure
The songs were posted "without asking permision" thus making them "feel bad". The legal system in this country has come to the point where ANYTHING and ANYONE can be sued. for ANY reason.

Double Joke

[LafinJack]

I think this was a double joke on the part of the Taconater. First, that TMBG would NEVER do anything like that, and that blocking NFS is just as stupid and unlikely as blocking Napster ports. Or blocking IRC traffic. Or FTP's. MP3 will never die, etc, etc, etc, yadda, yadda, yadda.

OK, I'm done now. :)

The one and (thankfully) only,

LafinJack

Re:Excuse me,excuse me may i have your attention

[david duncan scott]

I don't know how to break this to you, but Commander Cody wasn't really a commander, Captain Beefheart's not a captain, and Screamin' Lord Sutch wasn't a peer.

On the other hand, Dr. Seuss was a board-certified surgeon and Cat Stevens really is a cat.

Re:TMBG is Hardcore Geek Music

[Municipa]

Try to find thier recent "Don't Cross in the Middle' song on Napster though!

Re:Pitiful

[mach-5]

Agreed. They are using their weight (and a successful lawsuit) to basically bully the big "offenders" around. They are attacking the universities because they have the big networks. Let's see them go after some corporation that doesn't actually have napster blocked on their network.

I don't think its right that they are basically telling universities what to do, and dragging them into Napster's legal battles. I hope the Universities can make their own decisions and aren't freightened by legal tactics.

Re:who rocks the house?

[nevlow]

I think that public opinion was shown by how Metallica was treated at the MTV Awards.

Re:The arrogance of it all ...

[(void*)]

Good point. But students are smart. As educational institutes, the schools should always start with education first. Engineering solutions such as prioritizing network traffic should be employed, in the long term. A short-term solution such as closing down napster for a week might work too to give the students the idea that non-academic activities really should tempered with common sense.

My 2 cents (ban napster from univ)

[oki900]

Before any of you go off please read all I have to say. I do think napster should be banned fron UNIV's. Why? Well for starters most of the stuff on napster is there illegaly or downloaded illegaly meaning eitehr the person offering it does not have the original music or the person downloading it does not. Now that doesnt apply to all music as there are plenty of internet only musicians

Second, the bandwith. Walk onto a univ and measure how much bandwith is being taking up by students leaching off napster alone. This bandwith is ment for students to be able to do vital research in a manner much faster then a conventional library. With the bandwith being sucked away by napster this is not so fast and on some UNIV's it's even faster to use the library.

I know many of you think you have valid arguments aginst what Ive said, but you dont. Almost all of these UNIV's are State and Federaly funded wich means my tax mony is going to keep the bandwith at the UNIV's up. Im not aginst napster far from it. I just think if you want to use napster dont use the UNIV to do it, get a dialup account or something. Or maybe try studdying.

Re:My 2 cents (ban napster from univ)

[Y]

My university is also privately funded. But letting students use Napster made working on the network incredibly slow. Many of us cs majors were trying to do year-end projects, and the instability in the network caused by napster traffic was inexcusable. At one point in time, we had up 60% of all residential traffic being taken up by Napster.

I pay for my bandwidth. I should be able to do my work without worrying whether someone's penchant for Britney Spears is going to make working in the computer labs impossible.

> Mike

Columbia

[DzugZug]

This is a copy of the email I just sent to the president of my university.

President Rupp,

It has recently come to my attention that Columbia has or will shortly receive a letter from Howard E. King, attorney for Metallica and Dr. Dre, regarding the fact that Columbia students can access Napster's servers via the Columbia network. I know there are many qualified people in your office and I'm sure that the University will consult with legal counsel before taking any action. However there are a few things I feel should be considered.

First let me say that I do not support the stealing of intellectual property. Individuals (students included) should be held accountable for their actions. It is important to note, however, that caving to the demands of Mr. King sets a dangerous president. First, it suggests that a third party can regulate what information Columbia provides to its students. Second, it is a restriction on resources (like library materials) provided by the university to students. Thirdly, it gives credit to the claim that Napster (and eventually other file sharing tools) have no significant non-infringing uses. To comply with this demand is like complying with a demand by a publishing company to have all photocopiers removed from the libraries because students use them to photocopy magazines, books, etc.

If you wish to discuss my opinions further, you can reach me at this email address. I am also the student representative from FFSEAS to the University Senate and I sit on the External Relations Committee.

Thank you for your time, -Brian London

I sugest others do likewise

Re:Columbia

[jeffsenter]

In the case that President Rupp and General Counsel Patsy Catapano do decide to block Napster, I will probably be the one organizing the large angry protests. Nice letter though Brian. Jeff Senter

Re:Columbia

[mlc]

Yay! Large angry protests!
--

Re:Columbia

[DebtAngel]

It is important to note, however, that caving to the demands of Mr. King sets a dangerous president.

Better get that email back before you find out that people at Columbia support George W. Bush. :)

Funny or Flamebait? Moderators, you decide!

Re:Columbia

[mlc]

Hmm, copies should also probably go to:

• Elizabeth J Keefer, General Counsel
  412 Low Library MC 4308
  ejk at gc.columbia.edu
• Provost Jonathan Cole
  205 Low Library MC 4313
  jrc5 at columbia.edu
• Elaine Sloan, VP for Information Services and University Librarian
  517 Butler Library MC 1101
  sloan at columbia.edu
• Vace Kundakci, Deputy VP, AcIS
  612 W 115th St MC 6001
  vace at columbia.edu
• and possibly any friendly administrators, if there is such a thing. If it looks like they're actually going to do this, there would probably some sympathetic faculty who could be found.

mike castleman
--

Re:Columbia

[DzugZug]

done

Harvard, an Ivy League university,

[laetus]

being sued by Metallica, a Crabgrass League band.

EMUSE.NET

Re:Harvard, an Ivy League university,

[BadDogBadDog!]

Hey check out web-nap http://www.invalidpagefault.com You could still download songs using web based napster through port 80 :) @school or @work.

Re:MX of legal wars

[ichimunki]

Um. Not to defend Metallica, especially since they seem to be completely brain-dead on how to deal with digitized music and the internet, but they are NOT the same as the record companies. They have, in the past, filed suits against the record companies, Amazon.com and even Victoria's Secret. I tried to find more details, but all searches resulted in Napster news. I hate to nitpick, but let's keep our bad guys distinct. On the one hand we have a bunch of lawyer-loving suits at the RIAA who may never have played a note of music trying to preserve their ability to make a buck off starving artists. On the other hand we have some starving artists who made it (way too?) big and have encountered too many legal issues on the way to be able to have a clue remaining as to how to deal with new legal issues.

Re:a call to arms

[aphr0]

So, Jrod5000 at RPI, what do you plan on doing? Staging a bitchfest somewhere on the internet? No one outside of slashdot takes this place seriously. Go out and DO something and stop whining and bitching at your keyboard. If you believe so strongly in this, then get off your ass, go outside, spread the word about the evils of copyright, and make a change.

You just look like an ass when you do nothing but post a complaint to a message board on the web.

a call to arms

[Jrod5000 at RPI]

metallica be warned: if you even try something like that at RPI, you'll have a nice little rebellion on your hands...

Re:a call to arms

[david duncan scott]

Oooh! Bet they're scared, huh? If they don't shape up, you'll...cut class, or maybe start a food fight!

Re:a call to arms

[linuxlesbian]

RPI rules! :-D

Re:a call to arms

[_Bean_]

Thankfully most people here at RPI have some musical taste as a search of shares on celery only turned up 83 megs of metallica mp3s

Here we go again...

[GuNgA-DiN]

Money Good. Napster Bad!

Re:Stupid? Mail your congressman

[weeble]

Have a look at the stand this is a uk site where you can legitimately fax your MP via the internet. It works very well and I have had a number of in depth responses from my MP. (Member of Parliament - for non UK people).

I am sure that a US version if it does not exist would be very popular and should have direct links from /.

MX of legal wars

[JJ]

Oh great, the records companies (like the lads of Metallica came up with this idea) have decided to call in a new layer of legal action. I wish we had a government which could decide this issue, one way or the other, and make the decision stick.

Re:MX of legal wars

[Elvis Maximus]

I wish we had a government which could decide this issue, one way or the other, and make the decision stick.

Careful what you wish for.

-

Re:MX of legal wars

[hobbz]

Government bad, capitalism good.

In all sincerity we really don't want the government involved in this too much. Government has an overwhelming tendency to remove all power from each party and give it to itself. The best way to solve this matter is let us, the users, take on the MPAA and RIAA, let them know what we really think about their tactics and preferences in how they sell things.

------
hobbz

Re:who rocks the house?

[mrfiddlehead]

And how was that?

Re:More and more...

[gatzke]

I don't think people consider Metllica a bunch of prcks for defending their "intellectual property" rghts under the US legal system. They have every right to do so.

I think they are a bunch of pricks for not putting the music and the fans first. If they were actually cool about music (allow non-commercial downloads, free trading of albums and live shows) I think they would make the fans very happy. They can still make tons of money touring, even if they never sell another album.

Again, the problem is big business screwing the public and the bands. If a group doesn't have a label deal, they could set up their own web site to sell CDs, sell them for $5 and still make more money than with standard label deals... but this has all been said over and over here before.

NOOOOooooo......

[FascDot Killed My Pr]

Please don't kill NFS, that's how I get all my TMBG songs! How'm I gonna survive without CD quality copies of "(Going Down to) Cowtown", "Exquisite Dead Guy" and "Number Three"?
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/

Re:NOOOOooooo......

[TeeDeeKay]

Why don't you quit ripping off They Might Be Giants and buy their CDs? -Mike

Re:NOOOOooooo......

[CyberChrist]

interesting .sig -- is that a Leonard Cohen song?

Re:NOOOOooooo......

[tunaman]

Ahem? Istambul, NOT Constantinople?

Re:NOOOOooooo......

[titus-g]

TMBG have got it sussed, it's not Napster that's allowing this evil copyright violation, it's the networks.

I've just cut all the network cables in my office anyway, can never be to safe, oh hang on, forgot the modem cab

[Connection reset by peer]

Re:NOOOOooooo......

[WesBiggs]

Better yet, buy a monthly subscription to Emusic.com for $9.99 and download all the TMBG MP3s you want...

Re:I'll be sending a letter of my own...

[crivens]

you mean .........unbarred access to legal information?

Re: great TMBG lyrics.

[don_carnage]

A woman came up to me and said, 'I'd like to change your mind'

'By hitting it with a rock,' she said, 'but I am not unkind'

She looked at me, I looked at something she had written across her scalp, and these are the words that it faintly said as I tried to call for help:

There's only one thing that I know how to do well, and I've often been told that you only can do what you know how to do well and that's be you. Be what you're like. Be like yourself. And so I'm having a wonderful time, but I'd rather be whistling in the dark.

But really, they're all great, except that I started losing interest after John Henry.

--

Lacking Wit

[BlackHelmetMan]

What I don't understand is why Metallica cares. They have more money than God yet they bitch and moan about Napster and other Universities. Frankly they can suck it. If they wanna attack someone, why dont' they attack the makers of the MP3 rippers? Napster hasn't really done anything wrong. They made a program which distributes MP3's. It allows users to connect to each other and do such "criminal" acts as listening to music.

I mean I have never liked Metallica anyways. I have always thought they sucked. So boo fucking hoo for them. So they lost a bit of money on sales. Yippy! Maybe they will finally realize that it is time to retire.
~BHM

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[ArchieBunker]

To point out that the worlds biggest GNU/Linux zealot's personal website uses FreeBSD. I personally prefer FreeBSD over linux but that makes RMS seem even more the hypocrite.

You might remember my other old sig, Andover seems to use solaris for its main page. Andovers motto says "Leading the linux revolution" oh really?

I just enjoy pointing out little facts that people would rather not talk about.

Re:Not responible....

[photozz]

and.....
What is the status on a university providing access to the internet, not providing content. plausible argument could be made.

Road B ??

[Djaak]

Road B:
(1) Find DeCSS article.
(2) Skim quickly to make sure it's anti-DeCSS
(3) Click on "submit story."

Hum... wouldn't you achieve a better success ratio with pro-DECSS article ?

Re:Road B ??

[KingJawa]

No, I meant anti. Much like your local news showing a train wreck as the lead story, /. really enjoys posting stories that take to task (whether correctly or not) things like Napster, DeCSS, etc.

Rob Zombie

[LordMyren]

Agreed 100% on every other point, but, from some of the anecdotes and rumors I've hear, Rob Zombie is actually quite articulate and intelligent.

Just gotta give credit where its due

Myren
.sig -> <a href="http://www.geekcode.com">geekcode</a>

Re:University of Tennessee solution

[GMontag]

I certainly agree with you on your point. Perhaps they will be doing something like that in the future.

When I worked there in '93/'94, UT was trying to get itself fully fiber connected. The entire infrastructure is now fiber within the university (well, not all the way to the machines, but everyplace else pretty much).

Anyway, I hope that they work a bandwidth limit solution (limit bandwidth, not content) so that the students doing real work may have access to the resources that they are paying for.

Visit DC2600

Re:MTV

[cheese_wallet]

dude, flamebait doesn't have to be false. I wouldn't have called your comment flamebait; I'd have called it "Just Plain Stupid" if the option was there.

Re:Ya know what we need?

[jcroft]

Who needs an "actual logical or ethical position?"

This is America, Jack, and I can sure you for any damn reason I please. If I want to sure you because the color of your eyes causes me unnecessary headaches, then by god, I can do so.
----------
Jeff Croft
http://jeffcroft.com
http://industrystandard.org
http://newbeetle.org

Stop hiding behind freedom of inquiry!

[swb]

Stop hiding behind freedom of inquiry! Freedom of inquiry doesn't give you the right to break the law. Freedom of inquiry is about asking unpopular questions, not about the pursuit of illegal behavior.

What if I wanted to shoot smack? Should the University allow that as part of the pursuit of freedom of inquiry? It's arguably less infringing on the rights of others than stealing intellectual property since it really is a victimless crime.

Re:Stop hiding behind freedom of inquiry!

[Lx]

Bullshit, you moron. Lars pays the bill. You think taxpayers pay all medical expenses? Plus, I imagine he has good enough insurance to cover that kind of thing.

-lx

Re:Stop hiding behind freedom of inquiry!

[revscat]

What if I wanted to shoot smack? Should the University allow that as part of the pursuit of freedom of inquiry? It's arguably less infringing on the rights of others than stealing intellectual property since it really is a victimless crime.

Yes! Truths are frequently arrived at when visionaries take the "road less travelled". Universties are (obstensibly) about teaching and seeking Truth. However improbable, it is nevertheless possible that "shooting smack" could give rise to a new way of understanding the mind.

Similarly, using Napster could bring us closer to a new paradigm of intellectual property law. I hate to sound like Katz here, but this is a real possibility.

- Rev.

Re:Joke

[gehrehmee]

To paraphrase TMBG's inter-song banter:

"This next song is brand new, it's not on any of our albums, nobody's heard it [sarcasm]execpt those of you who are bootlegging our songs by mp3, and lip-syncing to songs that haven't been released yet! DAMN YOU![/sarcasm]"

Streaming Radio TMBG from wiredplanet.com!

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[don_carnage]

[Man, this could be a really long thread]

I don't know, how about:

"Where your eyes don't go a filthy scarecrow waves his broomstick arms and does a parody of each unconscious thing you do.

When you turn around to look, he's gone, behind you on his face he's wearing your confused expression where your eyes don't go."

--

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[devjoe]

Written on a bridge: I don't want the world, I just want your half.

Re:Don't allow students to copy books?

[Bucket58]

Not only entire books, but entire books thousands of times?
-- Bucket

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[Whizard]

It is back. Try 718-387-6962 (Narr!). It's not toll-free, but as always, it's free when you call from work.

If you feel like battling a bunch of flash animation, try www.dialasong.com.

Ha, Ha, Ha

[Crutcher]

Umm, does anyone else find it hillarious that "Metalica" has come to represent the 'Establishment' to the point were they sue those crazy rebels at HARVARD?

-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>

Re:The Lazy Man's Guide to Getting Stuff Posted on

[crazyj]

(1) Make sure the submission is suitable for CmdrTaco to plug his bad-a$$ laptops.

Don't forget to give him the chance to "casually" mention the fact that he has a girlfriend.

--
J, Internetist

Fools follow rules when the set commands ya

[Guppie]

It's from "Bullet in the head", on their debut album. Later in the song, they say:

Beleivin' all the lies that they're tellin' yea /
Buying all the products that they're selling ya.

So it seems a fitting song for those who belive
the Establishment's arguments in this case.

Re:Fools follow rules when the set commands ya

[AbbyNormal]

Can't remember the titles, but love the lyrics :) Another favorite from the Godzilla soundtrack: "Rambo, too has a dope pair of Nikes on".
Coincidentally, their concert was the best I had ever been too...continues to be so as well.

Re:Don't allow students to copy books?

[Karnos]

At Columbia, a few of my teachers take novels and have them mass copied via Village Copier. It's pretty illegal, but it guarnatees that the books are available.

Burns my ass.....

[spacenut20]

The thing that really pisses me off is where were Mettalica and Dr. Dre's lawyers when I was getting poped for $18.oo a CD? Why didn't they take a stand for the FANS? The very people who made them what they are today! They have embraced corporate greed and left music lovers behind,in the end, becoming the very thing that the strived NOT be so early in their careers.

Re:Not a threat to file sharing

[BlackHelmetMan]

The majority of the "Computer Generation" is not against Mtalica for doing this, most feel that they have the right to protect their product.

What majority?! All I hear is people complain about the BS Metallica lets out. After all, it becomes the consumers product once they buy the CD. So I think they can do whatever they please with it. If I have a CD and my friend likes the music I will go burn them a copy with out any hesitation. Oops... is that a copyright law? I doubt it, because I bought the product. As a consumer it is mine. The CD is mine.

Also, Metalica is not trying to shutdown Napster...

Oh come on, as long as Napster, mIRC and other file sharing programs exist... this 'crime' of sharing music is going to happen. OF course they wanna Shut It Down. It is the only way they can continue to make more money than they need. If this was such a big deal, then every artist in the business would have spoken in one voice. Have they? No, I don't think so. It is when two failing forms of artist... yes both Metallica and Dr. Dre are failing miserably... freak out because no one really likes their new music because they now officially suck. So in the end they are going to squeeze the penny until it substaniates back into liquid form. It is just somthing for them to bitch about. There are no two ways about it.
~BHM

Re:Excuse me,excuse me may i have your attention

[Puddin]

well then.. i suppose that answers my question sufficently.. thank you

Re:Really In Touch

[TypoDaemon]

If people started flocking to libraries and copying whole books (maybe they have free copy day or something that makes it economically feasible) do you think they would just let it happen? Do you think they would allow their resources to be used to copy hundreds of books a day? Not a chance, but because the resource is net access and it's music instead of books it's suddenly okay?

Firstly, books are alright to copy. Books are information, albeit in somewhat physical form. The point remains, however, that information belongs to anyone. It should be truly communistic. The only thing which might make one slightly reserved about copying a book is the amount of resources which were expended to make it and the amount it would require to copy it.

Music, however, is a bunch of little friggin indentations on a CD or - in MP3 form - a bunch of electrical/magnetic impulses. It as near to pure information as one can get. And since that's true, it should be equally shared with all parties who want it. No one should be able to copyright, patent, or trademark pure information.

Re:Really In Touch

[vroomfondel]

If Napster was used for fair use by most people you would have a case.

What you MEANT to say was: "If Napster is being used for fair use by even one person, anywhere on earth, even if that person is a hermit living in a cave with magical electrical and internet hookups who has no other contact with the outside world whatsoever, to the point where no one's even completely certain he really exists, you have a case."

Since it is, he does. The legitimate use is NOT secondary, damn it all, even if it's less common. Can you imagine if people took that "if most people..." attitude toward, say, handguns? Well, okay, some people do, but at least in that case people acknowledge that it's a Constitutional debate about rights, and there's none of this wishy-washy "privilege" crap.

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[TeeDeeKay]

Three years? Try less then two. No, there is not a new MP3 album coming out soon. -Mike

Go ahead, see if it stops us

[Linguica]

I currently attend UCLA and I have absolutely no doubt that even if my university does ban Napster, it won't do anything more than put a minor dent in the amount of MP3 downloads by the students.

If we are denied Napster, we'll just turn to Scour Exchange, Freenet, Gnutella, oth.net, FTP site lists, or just good old file sharing. As it is, practically half the students already have a passworded MP3 directory on the network -- I bet most all the songs anyone at a college could want are available without even going out onto the Internet at large.

Metallica et al are hoping that if they ban Napster, the students will suddenly be unable to trade MP3s. They seem to be forgetting that when they target the nation's top universities, the people affected are those who are creative enough to simply find another way.

Re:The Lazy Man's Guide to Getting Stuff Posted on

[mlogan]

you forgot carbon nanotubes.

-mark

Talking Heads?

[ciaohound]

I believe they all met at Rhode Island School of Design.

--

Let's look at who's truly at fault

[jschmerge]

First, let me say that I think what Metallica's doing is truly absurd, but let's look at who's truly breaking the law...

Is it a university b/c they are acting as an ISP?

Is it Napster (or for that matter Sun or even microsoft) for providing a file sharing protocol?

Is it Metallica's for wanting to make money off of their efforts?

No! it's the users... people using napster are stealing.

This is not a battle between napster and metallica of metallica and harvard... It is instead a battle that we are fighting against the RIAA... We are outraged that a CD costs 15-20 dollars. The only solution to this is boycott any artist that is on a label associated with the RIAA.

Re:Really In Touch

[GlassUser]

I don't know what you're talking about, but a lot of the classes I acually went to had a packet with the syllabus of a book or two (entire book, not a few pages) for the class.

Re:check the schools resnet policy

[Crewd]

That policy is between the school and the student. Let the battle be fought there. Metallica needs to get back to the point of their whole issue. Metallica going after schools for allows Napster traffic would be like Blizzard (Id Software...etc) going after schools because they allow ftp traffic. Both ftp and napster have legitimate uses, you can't expect a provider to shut down an entire protocol because of the mistakes of a few. Granted that napster is used far more for transmission of copywrited material that ftp is, but both are used for legal and illegal uses.

Re:They tried this at Ohio State...

[Lord Ender]

I start school oat OSU in one week, and I emailed them about the napster thing. They said their firewall restricts incomming TCP from the internet so that people don't run servers (such as napster). The reason is to save bandwidth. They have a socks5 you can use if you want to run programs like ICQ, but you aren't allowed to run servers like napsetr or apache through the proxy. But they never said anything about their DNS resolving napster to 0.0.0.0! Do they still do this? Or do they consider the firewall to be enough lawsuit protection for now?

According to thoe TOS at OSU, you can use napster, gnutella, or basically any program as long as you dont run a server. So I am guessing it is ok to leech off of the service. What has your experience been?

you just don't get it

[ArchieBunker]

They are fine with trading bootlegs and such, but when music they own started circulating before the officla release they got kind of mad. I can't blame them for that. Say you were making some kind of secret product that was to be released next month. I come in and steal a prototype and have 1000 copies made and start giving them away. I bet you wouldn't be too happy.

Its not about money, its about music being released on their own terms. Don't you understand that?

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[Hard_Code]

There are a lot of people with proshetic foreheads on slashdot...

Re:University of Tennessee solution

[GMontag]

Well, that is what I meant to say, but you said it a lot better. Thank you.

Visit DC2600

huh?

[vulgrin]

From the article:
"They ought to seriously address this issue of intellectual property. They certainly aren't allowing students to copy books in the university library."

Um, when's the last time they were at a University library? Most of the ones I've been to have banks of photo copiers and charge you to use them. (Which could be construed as copyright violation right there) Better yet, some have copy facilities that you drop off items at and wait for the copies to be made.

Is this a practice that doesn't occur any longer? (been a while since I've been to a college library)

Vulgrin the MAD

Re:huh?

[kill -9 $$]

The practice most certainly still exists.

I always found it interesting to read the copyrights inside of books. Some explicitly state that you may not reproduce any part of the text without written consent of the publisher. Others state you may do so as long as it is for personal use, others state you can copy and distribute without charge. Some just protect diagrams and figures, etc.

It really depends on the publisher. I've noticed that it seems a lot of computer books have copyrights of the first flavor. So I guess in response, its really up to the person performing the copying to determine whether or not its an illegal act. Even with the first, if you contacted the publisher (who does that?) then if you hand it off to the copy facility they should copy it since you are not breaking the law. The only thing they could do is request proof of such authorization or something.

what did they use before napster?

[ArchieBunker]

Everyone just turns on windows file sharing, why even use a program for that?

Companys dictating policy?

[interstellar_donkey]

Ideology aside, forgetting for a moment who is right or wrong, we should be very concerned that a company is dictating policy at a University. If the illegal act of making and distributing files on the Internet is of major social concern, it is the responsibility of the justice department.

Yet, there are no arrests, no fines. No statement saying "What you are doing is illegal and if you are caught, you will be punished." Granted, enforcing the law on a wide and free network is difficult, and we aren't quite sure how to do it effectively yet. However, something that effects all of our rights in a legal sense is being battled by advocates for corporate interests (Napster Vs. RIAA, in this case). The people, on the other hand, have no advocates, even though it directly effects them.

If this trend of determining matters of legality on the Internet by companies instead of law makers, we will end up with a set of 'unwritten' laws developed by whomever has the most persuasive lawyers (read: money) and detach the citizenry from the lawmaking process altogether. The democratic process may be slow, and might not make sense all the time, but at least can be accessed (in theory) by the people.

If a University can be forced to change it's policy by a company for fear of a lawsuit, regardless of the legality or ethics of that policy, we could all be in big trouble.

Re:Companys dictating policy?

[SimCash]

Welcome back to the sixties - when people who could not get legislation/enforcement to help solve problems turned to frivolous court cases instead. We still see this effect whenever a tree-hugging group tries to block construction of the newest strip-mall. But it is ironic who the players are.

Re:Really In Touch

[vroomfondel]

The difference is that there is more than one well-defined, non-theoretical "fair use" for Napster. It's not a special purpose; it's something anyone can sit down and do at any time. Any one given transaction on Napster could be a "fair use," and moreover, there's no way to tell the difference between legal and illegal transfers from the outside. Whether or not a majority of the users actually engage in practices covered under the "fair use" umbrella is irrelevant. Perhaps you would prefer that the interstate highway system be closed, as MOST drivers use them to commit speeding violations? Yes, that's blown completely out of proportion, but I ask you this: have you ever considered why normal passenger automobiles aren't governed to the local state interstate speed limit? Isn't more than that illegal just about everywhere in the US? Why would anyone ever want to go any faster? Sure, there are some odd-end circumstances like closed-track racing, but those are pretty rare . . . hmm. I could throw out more of these, but I won't bother. Just notice that these sorts of metaphors and analogies can go on forever on both sides.

It's important to remember that there's nothing about Napster that's especially interesting technologically. What happens when the RIAA learns people use, say, ICQ to trade MP3's? How's that different from Napster? Don't get me wrong; I personally think Napster has become the most egregious waste of computing resources since Pong. I just can't see how it could possibly be illegal. My question is, simply, where does it stop?

I've long suspected that the long-term goal of the RIAA and MPAA has nothing to do with Napster or with 2600 or DeCSS. There's simply not enough money in it to make sense. I believe that they're just going after obvious bad guys as a way to guide people down this slippery slope. Their ultimate goal is a "blank tape" tax on internet service, hard disks, CD-R(W) disks/drives, etc. Call me paranoid if you want, but think about it. I don't really fear this sort of outcome (hey, it's just money), but I resent the way they think it's acceptable to chip away at the rights of everyone because there's a POSSIBILITY that a few people might chip away at theirs.

At any rate, the point is not that the issue is decided. The point is that there is a bigger, more important issue than "Gee, free stuff is cool," and that the people who don't take the time to see that are risking not only their own rights, but those of others as well.

Re:TMBG is Hardcore Geek Music

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

does anyone get the NFS joke? I don't.

NFS allows you to share files on your computer, so technically you could use that to download illegal MP3s as well, but NFS is so ubiquitous that banning it is absurd.

Re:Controversy -- the big 'C' word

[Loligo]

Most of the parents that see this will see an evilbadwrong heavy metal band trying to sue a highly respected univeristy.

I doubt Metallica can do a speck of damage to Harvard's reputation.

-LjM

Coursepacks

[drivers]

There was a lawsuit. The universities lost.

Would you happen to have any more information, like which case this was? I was searching for information on the internet and couldn't find much, although I did find this, which was a case in which those coursepacks were NOT illegal, after a long battle:

http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~women/threads/pack.html

I am personally interested because I was working on software to help university bookstores track those copyright clearances. I haven't touched the project in a long time though. I'm trying to decide what I think about that now based on this information.

Re:who rocks the house?

[B'Trey]

I didn't realize that it was the same bit, but evidently they're now running it as a sort of "community service" spot. I saw it in between videos.

Re:I'll be sending a letter of my own...

[JCMay]

OverCode wrote:

I'm a student at Georgia Tech, supposedly one of the recipients of this letter, and I think I'll be sending in a letter of my own. Universities

Just remember, Georgia Tech is not a university. My sheepskin says " Georgia Institute of Techonology "

Don't put anything past those guys. Just remember what used to be under that Olympic(TM) natatorium behind SAC (hint-- intermural sports fields!)

I don't know what year you're in there, but I got a definate bone-head feeling from the Administration there from time to time.

By the way, how's Junior's doing?

Jeff B EE 95

Re:Harvard Art School and Kinko's

[Refrag]

You do know that they paid royalties to reprint that, don't you? (not that I'm siding with Metalisux or anything)


Refrag

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[Ted Nitz]

try this

Re:Someone has the right idea...

[Voltage_Gate]

Yes but Metallica has Lars. Lars, dude. Lars...

check the schools resnet policy

[ArchieBunker]

It states you can't keep copyrighted material on their network. That blows your argument.

Re:Wait a minute....

[Darth_Jon]

ok first of all you are wrong. You are given the option to set your own download directory, I have mine set to a directory with nothing in it, my download directory isn't shared and you're an idiot nothing to back that up though

Re:Excuse me,excuse me may i have your attention

[Puddin]

did they go by those names in public and sign those names to official documents?

So long, and thanks for all the Bandwidth!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, as an admin of a university near to Yale (Yale was one of the first defendants named in a lawsuit then later dropped), I think there is another side to the story that needs to be discussed more.

I think it is overlooked how destructive Napster is to the networking side of things. Here is a piece of software that has generated much controversy, and lots of bloat on campus networks. We first banned it on the student segment, hoping that would cut down on the congestion. Students instead ran to the public labs and used the computers there to consume more files. Eventaully we just blocked napster over the entire network. I screamed for joy at that point, once again it didn't take 5 minutes for Redmeat to load. IMHO, the internet connection that students pay for (and they LOVE to remind us many times of this fact, although grants that professors get, and donations from our wonderful alumni, help pay the bills too), is meant as a tool and resource for research and studies. Yes, the internet does have more to offer than just research, and no, I don't think that is all it should be used for. I certainly don't use it like that, nor would I impose that upon the student body of this university, but Napster literally killed the network. I mean, come on, 5 minutes to just load the front page of Redmeat?, my 28.8 local ISP dialup is better than that. So we banned em, and banned em good. I hope more schools that have limted bandwidth (ie not on a full t3 or even partial) decide to block napster if it becomes a problem.

- Guyver3 (always filled with angst and puppydogtails)

OT: RMS's web site

[afc]

So you just found RMS uses Apache and FreeBSD on his website (or perhaps his web host does this). I'm glad you're done with the racist web site shit, but what is exactly your point here, mate?
--

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[JanKotz]

I just enjoy pointing out little facts that people would rather not talk about.

I'm neutral on the 2nd amendment. I'd rather not talk about it because I really don't care.

OTOH, I think plenty of people would like to talk about the fact that you're a bigot. It would be wrong to call you a racist because I don't recall you ever making comment of that nature, but I would not be wrong to call you a bigot.

You preach that whites are a superior race, which proves that you, as an individual, are an idiot. In that, I'm not saying you can't hate people because of their race. I know it's strange and foreign stuff, and if you touched or talked to one of them, you might get cooties. What I am saying is that you are wrong in believing that the white race is superior. It is a morally and socially wrong belief, not to mention that it flies in the face of fact. Buy yourself a damn clue (the only way you get sex, too), then get a fucking life.
--

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[cthulhubob]

Umm - he's not a Linux advocate, he's a GNU advocate. He apparently prefers the FreeBSD kernel to the Linux kernel to run his GNU system.

That doesn't make him a hypocrite, it means you've been reading the wrong things into his words.

He'd rather that people call Linux "GNU/Linux" because it's the Linux kernel on top of a GNU system. He probably says his webserver is running on "GNU/FreeBSD". I don't have a problem with that.

Now, if the web server were running closed source software or something, then that would be hypocrisy. RMS is a Free Software advocate and a GNU advocate, not a Linux advocate.

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[JanKotz]

Take a second look at my nick... I know what a troll is, and you don't pass muster. IMO, hate is off limits for troll fodder. Go to your room and think about what you've done.
--

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[Frac]

To point out that the worlds biggest GNU/Linux zealot's personal website uses FreeBSD.

Well, you certainly got the wrong person. Stallman isn't the world's biggest GNU/Linux zealot. In fact, he has told everyone to think of Linux as something to use in the meantime while HURD is still in the making.

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[afc]

To point out that the worlds biggest GNU/Linux zealot's personal website uses FreeBSD.

Im my mind at least, that cancels ouy any implication of zealotry on his part now, wouldn't you agree?

The same, unfortunately cannot be said about you.
--

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[ArchieBunker]

Ah that means my trolling is a success.

www.yhbt.org

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[civilizedINTENSITY]

Just as we use GNU/Irix in the Physics (and soon to be, Chemistry) Labs...:-)

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[afc]

Yes, and by using Solaris (a BSD Unix) they are headed in the right direction, wouldn't you say? I agree, that is funny.

I don't know where you got the notion that Solaris is a BSD Unix. It used to be so, a really long time ago, but this isn't the case anymore (as with all other major commercial Unices). Heavens, SunOS 5.4 used to greet me with "UNIX (R) SysVR 4" or something at the login prompt. Please, stop difusing this bogus claim.
--

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[while]

To point out that the worlds biggest GNU/Linux zealot's personal website uses FreeBSD. I personally prefer FreeBSD over linux but that makes RMS seem even more the hypocrite

I don't see how your OS preference makes RMS even more of a hypocrite, but I think I get the point. It just makes me laugh.

You might remember my other old sig, Andover seems to use solaris for its main page. Andovers motto says "Leading the linux revolution" oh really?

Yes, and by using Solaris (a BSD Unix) they are headed in the right direction, wouldn't you say? I agree, that is funny.

I just enjoy pointing out little facts that people would rather not talk about.

You're a strange duck -- you're not a "BSD bigot", you're a bigot that uses BSD. That's kinda different...

end comment */

Re:OT: RMS's web site

[Rakarra]

IMO, hate is off limits for troll fodder.

IMO, nothing is off limits for troll fodder.

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[evilphish]

ya, they need to relax and build a little birdhouse in there soul
____________________________________________ ____________

So many college-graduate music stars.

[Starselbrg]

Quoted from the letter sent to universities quoted from the article:

I believe that you can easily recognize the irony of encouraging your students to matriculate in the creative arts, while engaging in behavior which, if unchecked, will make it impossible for those students to earn an income from their future creative efforts.

The argument that most modern music isn't creative aside, let's ask ourselves a simple question:

How many music stars are college graduates?

Now, I admit that I'm not very up-to-date or hip with the latest music trends. But I've heard names talked about by friends and on the news (and at Burger King?). So, I'll run down the list of the names I know, and let's analyze them a bit.

1. Britney Spears - Not old enough to be going to college, and probably not going anyway.
2. Rick Martin - I'm guessing not.
3. Metallica - Pretty sure that's a no.
4. NSync - I highly doubt it.
5. Back Street Boys - See NSync.
6. Rob Zombie - Yeah, right.
7. Marilyn Manson - I can't imagine him finishing.
8. Any of the 5 or so rappers that have died lately - Even when they were alive, I don't think they were attending college.
9. Dr. Dre - Hmmm. He might become a nuclear physicist.
10. Alanis Morset - Studying to become a trial Lawyer, perhaps?

Ok, that's not an exhaustive list, just the people that I could think of at the top of my head. As far as I know, not one of them has graduated or even been to college. If I'm wrong on any account, let me know.

If you can think of any others (perhaps someone knows more about country music?), then add to the list. Let's see how affected college-graduate musicians would be affected by Napster

Re:So many college-graduate music stars.

[smutt]

Snoop Doggie Dogg has a masters in business
administration.

Missed the point.

[goliard]

Um, dude. That was a cunning oblique referrence which couldn't possibly be misconstrued by any university.

One of the biggest copyright cases in the late 20th cen. had to do with universities providing students with photocopied books or compilation books of photocopied articles, without paying for the rights to republish. Professors were going to their university copy shops and handing them a stack of academic articles or a text book, and saying "Make a copy of this for every member of my 30 person class, and sell it to them when they come in." So in that case, instead of (or in addition to) going to a bookstore to buy a textbook, you go to, say, the campus Kinkos and buy your photocopied book from them.

There was a lawsuit. The universities lost. Universities generally don't pull that stunt any more -- while they may photocopy, they pay for the rights to do so. (If you want photocopy rights, generally one can buy them through the Copyright Clearance Center, and organization which administers rights precisely for that purpose.)

So that line about photocopying was actually an oblique threat: "We won over the wholesale photocopying issue, we can win over Napster."
----------------------------------------------

Re:Missed the point.

[dkemist]

There's still an important difference between reselling the copyrighted works and simply making them avaialbe to someone else to copy as fair use.

IANAL, but that seems like a huge difference to me.

Re:Missed the point.

[civilizedINTENSITY]

I've recieved copies of articles in class just about every semester I've been in school. I've never been asked to pay a cent. Isn't this "fair use"? The purpose of copyright is to promote the arts (and sciences?).

Re:Missed the point.

[Hadean]

Um dude...

Three of my professors at my school continuously just photocopy everything we need for us, charges us for the copy and a little for time and that's that... I haven't heard of the case you mentioned (any specifics you can give?), but it sure hasn't done much to stop copying... and anyway, the person quoting "they certainly wouldn't allow students" .. Big difference between me copying a book (which we have to do from time to time) and a professor copying 30. (Difference being, the professor gets it done cheaper.. :p )

its different

[ArchieBunker]

Its not like someone copies all 400 pages of your physics book and has it hard cover bound for free. Thats the analogy. Your copy is only a small part of the book and not exact like mp3s.

I'd be really funny...

[Jeff DeMaagd]

...if some of Metalica's lawyers are the alma matter of Harvard. I'm sorry, I don't know Latin so I don't even know if that's the proper word use.

Hmm.. Lawyer suing his old law school? Can universities revoke diplomas and degrees once handed out? :)

Not that I like napster except as a civil disobedience tool against the RIAA, as well as a way to sample songs, but I have never used it. I don't support copyright infringement. Sharing or loaning a CD to a friend is legal, but making hundreds of copies and distributing them to anyone that wants them is not, and I believe unethical if it weren't for some of the RIAA's actions.

Re:I'd be really funny...

[civilizedINTENSITY]

Wouldn't matter after they've passed the bar exam. A degree isn't necessary to practice law (if you can pass the bar without the help of the structure of studying at a school).

Rants that don't make sense

[prelelat]

I know what all you people keep saying about how Metallica is a bunch of babies, and its all true they can't handle the fact that they arn't supper popular any more (though I would still go to a concert) so they focase on something like napster to keep them happy. I think this sucks, because for I don't know how long before napster came out I would get mp3's off of things like irc and ftp's that had them.

I think that they are just crying for some atention from all there soon to be x fans (soon to be because they keep winning all the time) and no one wants to hear about it. But if we stop shouting maybe they won't care any more and stop saying Napster is gay and stuff.

Any ways the point I was trying to make is if we don't pay atention maybe they will dissapear er something and they will look for anouther way to get people's atention

napster is 99% illegal

[ArchieBunker]

How do justify napsters "real" use? How do you find unknown bands by searching for keywords? You don't. Maybe if napster had a browse by category option they could try and pass that off, but come on. We both know ftp traffic has nothing to do with napster.

Re:napster is 99% illegal

[Crewd]

I never disputed the fact that napster is used mostly for illegal purposes, but it does have a legitimate use. Check out http://artist.napster.com/ ...a list of unknown bands on napster and keywords you can type in to search for them. Or try http://artist.napster.com/newartists.html and you will find the category option that you speak of. I admit that it would be nice if they integrated this feature into their client, but it is there. All it takes is a visit to their website.

Re:"god-i-hate-this-crap" department

[prelelat]

You know that your not being funny when you say stupid things. Thats left to Metallica. You know when they say they think that napster is bad. Thats funny.

Re:University of Tennessee solution

[thelaw]

amen to that...

some of us also like using the networks LEGALLY. don't think that using napster is proper 'civil disobedience'. civil disobedience is only justified when there is _gross_injustice_, like discrimination or tyranny... keeping me from distributing illegally-copied mp3s is a far cry from banning me from restaurants or relegating me to the back of a bus because of the color of my skin.

jon

Lars at Video Music Awards

[The Kow]

Anyone notice that he got a good chunk of boos at the VMAs? They also brought the kid behind Napster out. Had a Metallica t-shirt, made a comment about sharing it with a friend. Funny stuff.

This has been said before...

[Maddog_Delphi97]

But Metallica's just basically alienating themselves from the computer-savy generation. However, I'm not sure how Metallica could make money without pissing off their own fan base.

Napster == network misuse

[achurch]

Something that seems to have been lost in all the free-speech drivel^H^H^H^H^H^Harguments is that university networks are, first and foremost, intended for academic use. Now it's true, of course, that most universities have more bandwidth than most academic use needs, so universities generally let students use the remaining bandwidth as they like. However, when non-academic use (e.g. Napster) takes up so many resources as to impair academic use, then the univeristy has the (at least moral) duty to restrict that use. If Napster is taking up as much bandwidth as some other people have suggested, then universities should be doing something about it--whether shutting it down entirely, rate-limiting it, or whatever--even without any threats from Metallica.

I attended Carnegie Mellon University through May 1999. Their Computing Code of Ethics states explicitly that "[u]niversity resources are provided for university purposes", and the residence hall network guidelines add that

Residence hall and dedicated remote access service connections to the campus network, and to the Internet, are provided to allow students, staff and faculty to fully participate in the educational and research missions of Carnegie Mellon University. [...]

It may not remain feasible to provide unlimited connectivity for systems which are not strictly serving the University's missions. Beacuse of this possibility, we reserve the right to request that users reduce the amount of traffic being caused by their service, or where necessary, to remove such systems or services from the campus network.

As a matter of fact, a free (non-commercial) web-hosting service I ran off the dorm network while I was a student there got me a couple of "friendly notices" from the network admins about bandwidth use, and I eventually had to move it offsite. I found this perfectly reasonable, since it wasn't university-related traffic, after all.

Copyright arguments aside, what university-related purpose does Napster serve that it doesn't deserve the same treatment?

(Disclaimer: I do support free speech, I just don't think Napster qualifies. Find an alternative that doesn't have "piracy" in its mission statement and I'd be happier.)

Re:Someone has the right idea...

[Coppit]

Virginia has tried to educate students about the copyright issues surrounding Napster rather than block the program, a tactic that many campus administrators say clashes with the freedom-of-inquiry ethos of a university environment. They also say they doubt blocking it will work anyway in the long run. "My biggest personal concern is whether [blocks] will be effective for the goal that they are trying to accomplish," Mr. German said.

The funny thing is, I'm at UVa and Napster seems to be blocked. Maybe it's just this department... Using Napigator, the the non-Napster servers seem perpetually swamped. I actually get better results connecting to Napster servers over dialup at home.
------------------------------------------- ------------

you can't give Harvard a bad name

[moller]

Harvard is Harvard. Trying to defame them, give them a bad image, make them look bad, whatever, it doesn't work.

Everyone knows what Harvard is, and Harvard has universal respect.

No one will get a negative image of Harvard from this, it can only reflect poorly on Metallica, as anyone who is uninformed will view it as some stupid metal band suing our greatest institute of higher education...and those who are informed will see it in a fairly similar manner.

Moller

Re:you can't give Harvard a bad name

[Caspuh]

What could hurt your image worse than training and releasing new lawyers every year?

i hate lawyers.

Re:you can't give Harvard a bad name

[lemox]

You seem to forget what happened with Harvard and Packet Storm Security a while back. PSS was hosted on Harvard's servers, and simply a call from JP (JP!! of all people!) threatening to sue made Harvard shut it down. If a little wannabe "security specialist" that is reviled by his own community can make harvard bow, I'm pretty sure very rich celebrities can too.

Someone has the right idea...

[dmuth]

From the article:

Virginia has tried to educate students about the copyright issues surrounding Napster rather than block the program, a tactic that many campus administrators say clashes with the freedom-of-inquiry ethos of a university environment. They also say they doubt blocking it will work anyway in the long run. "My biggest personal concern is whether [blocks] will be effective for the goal that they are trying to accomplish," Mr. German said.

I'm glad to see that *someone* at one of the universities is actually thinking, rather than buying into the knee-jerk reaction of just trying to shut down Napster...

Re:Someone has the right idea...

[AugstWest]

Do not taunt Happy Fun Lars.

Re:Someone has the right idea...

[RJ11]

Ummm, Napster works fine for me......

Re:Someone has the right idea...

[civilizedINTENSITY]

Pittsburg State University (Pittsburg, KS) requires a contract for dorm net access that stipulates that napster won't be used, and that failure to abide will result in loss of internet privilidges.

Re:Someone has the right idea...

[RJ11]

Actually, today there was an article in the student newspaper claiming that Metallica has gone after UVa as well now. Speaking of which, to gain internet access, you must take a short "responsible usage quiz," on which there is a question about whether or not you should use napster.

Re:Someone has the right idea...

[Tucan]

They also say this:

At the same time, however, university administrators do not appear eager to devote time and money to fighting legal battles that are largely unrelated to their educational missions -- especially not battles that would put them in the awkward position of defending students who were violating musicians' intellectual-property rights.

Which sadly brings the situation right back to status quo. Sue them and they will succumb. Virginia's laudable approach to the issue is subject to veto by litigation.

Re:Someone has the right idea...

[AugstWest]

Somehow I doubt that Metallica has better lawyers than Harvard. Call me crazy, but I think Harvard Law may have a decent lawyer or two up their sleeve.

The Crimson: Harvard says banning not likely

[ShaneOwara]

The Harvard Crimson, that shining example of journalistic prowess, has an article on this situation here:

http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/news/article.asp ?ref=8640

In it, University Attorney Allan Ryan is quoted as saying "I don't think there's an obligation to prevent our users from accessing protected material over the Internet." This statement is apparently from an interview conducted last spring.

Re:Ya know what we need?

[kaisyain]

Do you have any actual logical or ethical position for why a university should not be able to block any ports/clients/whatever that it feels like? If I want to drive my car over their lawns should I be able to sue to force them to let me do that, too?

The real culprit is Howard E. King

[stx23]

How can this man spoil his family name by restricting the flow of music so shamelessly. His father Ben must be spinning in his grave.

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[aphr0]

Yes! "Share" the music of every artist who DARES to have the gall to try to make a living! Keep it up and maybe you'll soon destroy all the artists who want to make music and get paid for the years of labor they put into it. After all, that's what slashdot is about, right? Sticking it to The Man(c) and the utter destruction of capitalism?

If you disagree with a group, write them and tell them. Metallica is against the unauthorized distribution of their music. Doing that right in their faces isn't going to do anything but give them more ammo in the courts. They can now say "hey, we tried to be nice and come to an out-of-court agreement, but obviously people don't care." and can bring in the lawyers and get napster itself shut down. Great work there, tex. We need more brilliants minds like yourself.

Re:documents on reserve

[kaphka]

Copyright law contains a lot of broad exceptions for legitimate academic libraries, so that's not really the same thing. I'd give you specific references, but I've forgotten the address of that handy U.S. Code database, and I don't feel like searching for it again right now. (I should probably bookmark it, huh?)

That's not to say that that wasn't a stupid comment, though. I'm sure if the corporate types ever noticed those provisions for libraries, they'd be gone pretty quickly.

How long until they sue ISPs.

[Badgerman]

OK, anyone want to place bets on how long it'll take Metallica and cohorts to bring lawsuits against ISPs to block Napster? My guess is that that's the next logical extention of their policy. I myself think it will be interesting to see Metallica butt heads with ISPs - a battle of coroporate interests.

Re:It'd have been better if Napster had never exis

[face411]

So we should ban VCRs and Cassette tapes as well?

I would guess that there is probably more money lost to people renting a movie and copying it for themselves and a friend or two than the low percentage of the population who actually has internet access downloading Christina Agularia mp3's.

What is so wrong about preventing people from wasting their hard-earned money on some crappy album with a song they saw a video for once on MTV? Why can't you anti-Napster people view it from that perspective? Would you buy a new car without test driving it?

What about the fact that MP3 is nowhere near CD quality? There's a total loss of stereo seperation that makes the files sound like ass through a good surround sound stereo even if you use the least lossy compression. If you burn mp3's to audio, you then have to worry about the disk playing in 50% of the CD players out there.

MP3's are NOT a replacement for the real CD. If you like a band you will buy their CD for the liner notes and art. I have up to 4 real copies of CD's from some of my favorite bands just in case one gets lost/scratched/stolen. If I'm at the used CD place and I see it, I grab it... Oh wait, now you idiots will want to close down used CD places 'cause you can't make money off of them either...

I should have kept my fool mouth shut.

Peace,
Face

Why don't we just teach people how to set up napster to not serve up the files on their hard drives when there are bandwidth concerns?

Law Universities... Pay Back Time

[xerx]

Seems they may have done too good of a job teaching all those lawyers.

Re:University of Tennessee solution

[mttlg]

Quoting a friend "if the students want to gring their network to a hault trading music and videos, let them, it's fine with us."

I'm glad those admins don't work anywhere near me. I sure hope they aren't being paid much, because that should not be the attitude of the people who are supposed to be maintaining a network of any kind. The goal of any netadmin should be to keep the network running reliably for all users - not just the faculty and staff. If someone is using an unusual amount of bandwidth, they should be investigated and shut down if their activities violate school policies and/or the law. If an activity is questionable legally and is interfering with more legitimate uses of the network (at a college that would be academic use), that activity should be limited. Napster is blocked here at WPI because 5 T1 lines can't support both academic use and Napster use at the same time. Napster will be allowed (with a bandwidth cap) only when:
A. The T3 is up and running, and
B. Napster is cleared in court.
Until then, if you want to download a song with Napster, you need to show the network manager proof that you have permission from the copyright holder to download the song. This isn't censorship, it's network management, which is what the netadmins here get paid to do. The only person who has expressed problems with this policy was some moron who thought he owned the network because some of his (parents') money paid for network access. After whining about free speech, he was promptly flamed into the ground.

coming soon...

[Evro]

Metallica's college tour. Get your tickets today!

__________________________________________________ ___

Re:Ya know what we need?

[0xdeadbeef]

Why not? A spamming company has recently sued a bunch of ISP for blacklisting them, and most of the ISPs have settled. Hey man, it's the American Way.

Paylars ? no no, how about this..

[billcopc]

Someone start a ShootLars.com fund. We basically hire Joe Random Sniper with whatever cash we amass and bring this debauchery to a messy stop. Geez have you seen the blasphemy they displayed at that MTV awards shiny thing (as if MTV wasn't blasphemous enough already). I could stand watching Britney Spheres bouncing around (muted!) but watching Mr "I look stupid on video because my jaw moves more than my guitar pick" Ulrich stick Napster stickers on some girl's ass had me jumping and yelling.

Come to think of it, couldn't Napster sue Metallica for using the Napster logos and trademarks in a slanderous and defamatory way ? I'd drink to that!

Re:Paylars ? no no, how about this..

[billcopc]

exactly!

The Lazy Man's Guide to Getting Stuff Posted on /.

[KingJawa]

Road A:
(1) Find Napster article
(2) Skim quickly to make sure it's anti-Napster
(3) Click on "submit story."

Road B:
(1) Find DeCSS article.
(2) Skim quickly to make sure it's anti-DeCSS
(3) Click on "submit story."

Road C:
(1) Find Microsoft article.
(2) Skim quickly to make sure it's anti-Microsoft
(3) Click on "submit story."

Road D:
(1) Find Linux article.
(2) Find something weird, like it running on potatoes or wristwatches or being used to find aliens.
(3) Clink on "submit story."

Re:Harvard Art School and Kinko's

[Microsift]

Kinko's got out of the copying of copyrighted materials(without permission) game a long time ago. They were sued, and lost over a million(which seems trivial now).

Controversy -- the big 'C' word

[airos4]

Yes, Harvard Law has some good minds, but remember -- as with almost every other major university, Harvard is mostly selling their program based on the credibility of the name. While stopping Metallica's idiocy is a good thing in principle, most of the parents that see this lawsuit and the entangling issues won't understand, and possibly would get a negative image of the school overall for getting sued in the first place. Cause only bad people get sued, right?

Britney Spears AND Christina Aguilera

[pingflood]

Dammit, you need more reason? ;-)

Lynching

[airos4]

Virginia Tech so far has gone unmolested by these morons, but I guarantee a college tour would have them strung up like Mussolini's bastard stepchildren.

Re:Lynching

[_Bean_]

Someone I know bought a Napster t-shirt just to wear to a metallica concert. He was expecting a bunch of shit but all he got was a lot of "Why do I get a lot of downloads that won't finish"

Re:University of Tennessee solution

[Jeff Ballard]

Anyway, I hope that they work a bandwidth limit solution (limit bandwidth, not content) so that the students doing real work may have access to the resources that they are paying for.

Well, the better solution is not to limit aggrigrate bandwith to/from any particular IP address, but prioritize the network utilization so that things that the university wants/needs are given higher priority on the network

For instance, you know telnet/ssh/smtp/http are all important, these go first. Then, if there is room left on the network, everything that you don't know about. Finally, after THAT, then let things like net2phone, napster, et all go through.

Then, you're not blocking anything. You're just saying, "there are important things on the network", and prioritizing it correctly.

Metallica VS Hardvard? Yeah ok!

[piecewise]

Well, I guess there could be a problem with only reading the titles of articles..
But here's my opinion anyway.

METALLICA VS HARVARD

Persoanlly, the educational institution of Harvard is much greater known and certainly more successful than this "Metallica" school you're apparently talking about. However... Metallica would absolutely represent a newer age of education, and certainly more hip than the stodgy old...

Wait, wait, wait a minute. Maybe this isn't saying Metallica is a school...
Umm

Well, you see, in the court case METALLICA VS HARVARD, I believe Harvard has the home-game advantage in that it breeds lawyers, for the most part. However, I would think the public would be in majority support of Metallica... but maybe not? Lots of people like Napster...

Oh. Maybe... this isn't a court case? How silly of me.

Let me start again..
Monday Night Nitro WWF METALLICA vs Harvard was so frickin awesome!!! I can't---

I'm done.
Chris.
:-)

this is the right idea...

[BadDogBadDog!]

Hey check out web-nap invalidpagfault.com You could still download songs using web based napster through port 80 :) @school or @work.

Re:documents on reserve

[kootch]

so if I create a music library and allow duplication that is not as good quality as the original and only digital, is that permissable?

(this is just a question, not a statement)

again, I'm questioning the restrictive properties of the original as the reasons for not-perfect-quality copies

Re:documents on reserve

[apathetic]

no there are restrictions on fair use saying what it can be used for for instance education, plus you aren't supposed to copy the full thing, just parts

Re:They tried this at Ohio State...

[SisterRay45]

Basically you can do whatever you want so long as you don't break the law really. I work for ResNet actually and we don't go out of our way to mess with people unless you're doing something really stupid like selling mp3 or mpg movies. Be smart and you'll enjoy the service I'm sure. I'll see you on move in day maybe ;-)

Re:Really In Touch

[dirk]

It's important to remember that there's nothing about Napster that's especially interesting technologically. What happens when the RIAA learns people use, say, ICQ to trade MP3's? How's that different from Napster? Don't get me wrong; I personally think Napster has become the most egregious waste of computing resources since Pong. I just can't see how it could possibly be illegal. My question is, simply, where does it stop?

The difference is that Napster was designed from the ground up to violate copyrights and traffic copyrighted MP3s. Everyone seems to think that Napster is similar to IRC, or ICQ because you can transfer MP3s across those, but the only real similarity is that they transfer files. NApster transfers a specific kind of file, and it was designed to transfer specific files that are illegal. ICQ was designed to transfer any file, of any kind, and of any legality. Everyone seems to think the Napster deserves common carrier status, but it is anything but. It is the difference between a public bus line that will allow anyone, and a taxi service that caters to carrying criminals away from a crime scene, but occasionally carries an innocent person too. Napster chose to focus on illegal MP3s (unlike MP3.com who chose to carry legal MP3s, at least until they started My.MP3.com). If I choose to have a yard sale and invite people to sell stolen goods, I WILL be held accountable, even if there is one person selling legitamate goods.

Stupid?

[mrfiddlehead]

Is this band (or more likely their fearless leader, whatshisname) stupid or just plain stupid? Does he have no idea how damaging his (their) reputation would be if they were successful with this?

I've never been much of a fan of Metallica which I found a bit too commercial (how true that has proved to be) preferring the likes of Black Flag, Motorhead, No Means No among others during the glory days of hardcore metal in the 80's, so it's no loss for me. But I suspect there are soon to be ex-fans of Metallica at 11 major American Universities.

As bugs would say, "what a maroon!"

Re:Stupid?

[nathanh]

You think Motorhead isn't "too commercial"? And since when has Black Flag been hardcore!

I'm personally sick of the trendy "Metallica is not a real metal band" nonsense. They're always either "too commercial" or "not hardcore" or "a bunch of sellouts". What crap.

You don't have to like Metallica, but don't use the copout excuse that it's because they're too wussy for you. Metallica is entertaining: their popularity is a direct result of this.

Re:Stupid?

[Caspuh]

But I suspect there are soon to be ex-fans of Metallica at 11 major American Universities.

Not that it really matters to Metallica. The RIAA is shoving tons of money up Lars' ass, keeping him motivated to fight Napster. He could care less if everyone hates him. The RIAA is going to make him much richer than he was before, whether he loses all of his fans or not.

Re:Stupid?

[Bucket58]

Same here. I was a lucky one who saw them when James fucked up his back, and got to see them again a second time for free.

$65 dollars works out to $13 dollars per band for the 5 bands there (summer sanitarium i'm presuming). And considering KR,Korn, and Metallica each played for an hour and a half or more, we definitely got our money's worth out of that tour.


-- Bucket

Re:Stupid?

[Bucket58]

Did you go to a Metallica concert this summer? I went to 2 of them, one with 50k plus people, and the other with 25k plus people. From what I saw, none of them are really giving a damn about the napster issue. And everyone I've talked to that was a fan before the napster issue has not up and decided to ditch Metallica. I don't think they're losing any fans, except from /. and many of them weren't fans to begin with.


-- Bucket

Re:Stupid?

[10to1against]

to be fair, i agree with you. it's shortsighted of metallica, and anyone else who would persue this course of action. digital music, and using the net to distribute it is how it's going to be done now. we've been bootlegging music for how long now? and by how many methods? i think this element of the music industry has always been and will always be. i don't have the solution...but metallica is doing themselves no favor by alienating the geeks, and all those other people with computers. i don't use napster personally..and i don't listen to metallica. but i can count on one hand the people in control at my university who understand the ramifications of screwing with net access to students..the last thing i need is some suit jacking around with my limited bandwith here. grr..venting. thanks a lot, lars.

Re:Stupid?

[eshaft]

You know, I have to agree with that guy from suck (in this article from Friday) about geeks bitching about the things constantly but actually doing very little about them.

If only there was a web site where bithcing could be turned into legitimate public action... like, submit a complaint and someone mails it to a congressman for you ;)

Re:Stupid?

[Wiseleo]

I am a front row freak...

I was at front row at Metallica concert this summer wearing a Napster shirt.

You know when they do crowd shots on big screen displays? Yep, there it was, huge napster logo from front row.

$65/general admission ticket - and you thought CDs were bad.
--
Leonid S. Knyshov

Re:Don't allow students to copy books?

[Happy Monkey]

No intellectual property is lost because the author is credited.

Most songs on Napster are probably credited to the author (not necessarily the copyright holder, though), and most of the mis-crediting of songs on Napster happened after Metallica's complaint.
___

monkey

[mother]

Monkeys Lost his Bucket

Re:Metallica...scourge of higher education...

[jareds]

However, we all know this type of stupidity works in the courts. We have too many previous examples of these things already and I'm sure Metalligreed will win if Harvard doesn't bend over for a buttrock band of elderly hicks.

Well, think about the examples of stupidity in the courts that your'e talking about:
Motion Picture Association of America v. Eric Corley, aka Emmanuel Goldstein, publisher of 2600 magazine
DVD Copy Control Association v. [dozens/hundreds of people, selected at random]
Recording Industry Association of America v. MP3.com

If someone knew nothing about the cases, just looking at the names they would probably guess that the plaintiffs would win.

Now, think about this:
Metallica and Dr. Dre v. Harvard University, Stanford University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, etc.

Looking at those names, and knowing nothing about the case, who would you expect to win?

Anyway, any university should fall under the protections provided to service providers by the DMCA. I'm frankly quite amazed that the three universities that were sued earlier settled. If I were a university that were sued, I'd try to have Metallica's lawyers sanctioned for filing a frivolous lawsuit. The protections provided for service providers seem pretty clear cut. But, IANAL, so what do I know?

Re:not all musicians are stupid

[Darby]

Well, Offspring aren't punk, but you should throw in Greg Graffin singer for Bad Religion.
Doctorate in Evolutionary Biology.
Kind of appropriate
---CONFLICT!!---

Rock artists medeling in University

[Performer Guy]

Just great, now we have the great intellectuals Metallica going after our centers of learning to restrict the software they use.

I was a Metallica fan but this does it for me. When a bunch of hick rock artists can blow into town and demand restrictions on the use of software in Universities it's time to put them in their place.

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[mattwb2]

Why should I care if they make a living? Why should I care if they are destroyed for that matter? I don't owe them a living.

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[Bucket58]

How many people in alt.guitar write their own stuff and record it? If I could hear what they consider good guitar work, then by all means tell me where I can find it. Metallica's music may be easy to figure out or even play, but at the speed that they do it, and how well they put it all together, (especially in the older albums) makes them good musicians in my book. I quit reading alt.guitar because it was getting to the point where I was tired of tab requests and the like. Plus that I don't play guitar, but bass, it didn't appeal to me that much.


-- Bucket

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[Kidney3.14]

This doesn't mean you have to stop listening to Metallica, just don't pay for their music anymore. If you have some, keep listenening to it. If you don't, do what they don't want you to do. Use Napster. If Metallica wants open-season on Napster users, it's time for open-season on Metallica. Burn CDs and give them to your friends. Start a Metallica FTP site. Hurt them. If they really are losing money because of piracy, keep it up. Someday this will go away because they have no more money. Unfortunatly for us, they still have other sources of income, like concerts, merchandise, and idiotic sheep people who do whatever Big Brother tells them to do.

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[MaxGrant]

I compose and perform my own music. Almost anyone can sing better than James. He's a vocalist, not a singer. The distinction is that he would almost certainly be out of his league if called upon to sing anything but his own material. I can certainly play more complex stuff than Jason Newsted. If you spend a lotta time in alt.guitar ask someone if they could transcribe something like "La Villa Strangiato." Yes's "Close to the Edge." I can pretty much play the entire Rush catalog up to Power Windows (after that I got interested in other things). For that matter, pick up the latest Tool album. I can do that, too. I can also play an upright bass, jazz, have performed in a classical orchestra, and play fretless. I've arranged Bach pieces, by ear, for the bass guitar. I know about how difficult Metallica is to play, and it just isn't.

I'm not a natural guitarist but I do my own parts and I'm not impressed with Hammett's playing. It's nothing special. A million guys can do what he does. Playing fast is different than playing well. If _you've_ ever played a lick on a guitar you ought to know that. Guitar players who impress me: Steve Howe. Adrian Belew. Guitar players who do not: Kirk Hammett. Yngwie (or however the fuck you spell it). There's a difference between technical proficency and actual musicianship.

And as a bass player I pay special attention to the drums and though I don't play them myself I would be appalled to have to play in an ensemble with Lars. He sounds like he's making it up as he goes along and frequently cannot find the downbeat. I'd smack him over the head with my bass if I had to put up with that in a performance.

Finally, their writing is trash. Their lyrics are all slightly hilarious but meaningless gobbledeygook, and their musical arrangements are not much better than what I did in high school. Mind you, if over their two decades as professionals they had advanced in their art one whisker it would be different, but a Metallica song I hear today is just not much different than the stuff they were churning out in 1985. Cliff Burton was probably the creative genius behind their original sound and when he died he took it with him. The other guys don't have it.

No that doesn't have anything to do with their stance on Napster. My point is that they weren't worth very much artistically to begin with except for their "message." Their early albums were bootlegged from here to breakfast and their attraction was that they so thoroughly rejected everything the established scene stood for. I respected them for that though I thought their music was repetitive and not terribly interesting to begin with. Napster is simply the online appearance of the bootleg scene. Shutting down Napster would not make it go away, and any fool ought to realize that. That Lars does not understand this or does not care just makes me sad. That he's insulated himself from that entire scene and can't get a perspective away from being a millionaire rock star is clear.

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[Bucket58]

but a Metallica song I hear today is just not much different than the stuff they were churning out in 1985.

This right here makes me question your whole post. Their stuff now is nowhere near the same as what the old stuff is. Can you honestly tell me that RTL is the same as Reload?? As the other poster in this thread said, post this to alt.r-n-r.metallica and see what kind of response you get.


-- Bucket

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[PepsiBetter]

Metallica are not artists, they are no longer just trying to make a living, they are only trying to make as much $$ as they can. Artists are the ones who do it because they love it, and because they need to do it to please their soul. Metallica may have been artists one day, but there is no hope of any good music coming out of them now.

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[VAXman]

I was a Metallica fan but this does it for me. When a bunch of hick rock artists can blow into town and demand restrictions on the use of software in Universities it's time to put them in their place. So, what you're saying is, that you don't care about the actual quality of the music at all, but just the politics.

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[MaxGrant]

No. Hurt them where it counts. Don't listen to their music. They are in all ways an inferior group of musicians. All they ever had going for them was their attitude and their message, which they've now bagged. Let them bag it. Let them fail. They deserve it. I used to respect them for what they had endured in the pursuit of their 'art' but now I can't. They are just a colossal joke to me.

Re:Rock artists medeling in University

[Bucket58]

They are in all ways an inferior group of musicians.

Do you say this because of what they are trying to do to napster, or because you really believe it? If so, how in the hell does their stance on napster have anything to do with their musical ablitiy. Thats utter bullshit and you know it. If you've ever, EVER played a lick of guitar in your life, and try to play Metallica, you'd soon find out that this is simply not true. Not to mention trying to write the music in the first place.


-- Bucket

They Might Be Giants

[Gunnery Sgt. Hartman]

Does Particle Man win this battle?

Why universities

[acomj]

Its easy.
1) Broke students (I was a broke student...) who REALLY like free stuff, and have enough time to search for music they want.

2) Big bandwidth (back in my day we had a vax cluster that was neat,and gopher! now I hear they have really really fast interntet, but I digress) by making universities stop allowing napster et al. server set ups you reduce the number of high speed connections to mucic.

3) Single point of responsibility for many people. Let them deal with there students.

Personal responsibility? The law doesn't punish individuals for their violations (yet....) So they're trying anything

Re:Why universities

[jareds]

> Personal responsibility? The law doesn't punish individuals for their violations

It most certainly does.

I think what he meant is that it is possible, but not yet decided by the courts, that individuals using Napster are immune from suit under the Audio Home Recording Act.

Re:My 2 cents (dont ban napster from univ)

[DzugZug]

My university is privatly funded. So are most of the universities named in the letter (e.g., Harvard). I pay for my bandwidth. I should be able to do with it as I please.

teleco's

[burgatron]

Im surprised that mettalica fans go to uni!

Why dont they go after the phone companys, they are the freeways which transport these "illegal" files.

Re:teleco's

[Znork]

Wanna bet that's the next step? Require that the telcos block napster traffic on the backbones or get sued? They could even win that one in court.

Re:Harvard Art School and Kinko's

[Spazmogazm]

Where the hell did all you people go to school? I too remember picking up photocopied articles, chapter, etc. at Kinko's, and I also remember that the price included royalties to the holders of the copyrights of the photocopied material. If Napster would consider building in a micro-payment system for works it knows to be copyrighted material, at least it could pretend to be running an honest business, and that might finally shut this whole Napster business up so we can all move on to something a bit more interesting.

More and more...

[Hates]

I'm just so baffled by this whole Metallica thing. Can't they see that they are only making themselves look more and more like pricks?

It's always disapoints me to see a good band become just another greedy money grabing machine. They should be greatful for what they've got and how big they've become. Most people and bands would give anything to have an audience as large as theirs and most wouldn't give a shit about the money.

Fuck Metallica and everything they stand for...

Re:More and more...

[AbbyNormal]

Hear..Hear.

They're in their Elvis-itis stage. Time to scrape the bowl clean while you can still use the bathroom unassisted.
Little harsh, but that's my viewpoint now (I was a fan...WAS being the key operating verb).

Re:More and more...

[AndrewHowe]

So when someone stands up for what they believe, that makes them pricks?
Suppose I start a service, let's call it "Gnutster", whereby people trade bits of GPL'd source for inclusion into their closed source apps.
Do you think Mr. Stallman would get upset? I think he might, and I think the FSF might open an eye or two.
When that time comes, will I be justified in calling my detractors "pricks"?
I'm not stealing, because I'm just copying information. Heck, I'm not even doing it myself, I'm just enabling others to do so. Well, a few people don't get their wishes, but hey, they shouldn't have made their source available.

Who needs Napster (tm) at a College?

[redhotchil]

On the topic of napster and schools: With a couple thousand students 1 opennapster server located within the school would suffice for the campus and allow students to transfer mp3 at the speed of the lan instead of wasting net bandwidth. It would please the students and the network admins!

Re:Who needs Napster (tm) at a College?

[OverCode@work]

I've considered setting up a Coda distributed filesystem to accompish the same thing. It would take a bit of work, but it would rule!

-John

Re:Who needs Napster (tm) at a College?

[grahamsz]

About two years ago my university apparently unofficially ran an ftp site with about 10 gigs of mp3s on it.

Sadly the powers that be decided it was wrong and it was closed down.

Now as far as I know napster is now blocked from my university, although the action to do that blocks all access to www.napster.com by resolving it's dns to 0.0.0.0. However if you already have the napster client then u can still use it.

I guess it's just an sensible sysadmin move to allow access to the smarter (more hackerlike) students and yes appease the people who write policy.

Re:Who needs Napster (tm) at a College?

[Nezumi-chan]

You would need to have some music on the napster clients to begin with. Considering that most students won't pay for the music in the first place, where is it going to come from? Don't say you would pay if you could. You won't.

Bullshit. I did when I went to University. So did everyone I knew. for that matter, so do most of the students I'm currently friends with, some of whom use Napster extensively as well.

For the most part, the students I know buy far more CDs more often than the ones who have graduated. You can assign the reasoning for that where you will, but the fact is that my observations lead to believe that students are more likely to buy, not less. Perhaps that's why there seems to be a correlation between Napster use rising together with overall CD sales.

Re:Who needs Napster (tm) at a College?

[Greg W.]

Don't say you would pay if you could. You won't.

We can, and we have.

www.fairtunes.com, $2500 (combined US & Canadian) and counting.

www.paylars.com, $500 and counting.

Re:Excuse me,excuse me may i have your attention

[david duncan scott]

Sorry, I get sarcastic on Mondays.

Don't know. Your name (I'm really NAL) is what people call you, so if I can persuade enough people to call me "Tut", then my name becomes "Tut". I need to be consistent -- I can't answer to "Tut" at work and "George" on the street, and there are complications if I'm wanted under another name, but the concept is pretty straightforward. AFAIK, if I choose to call myself "Senator", and I can persuade others to do so, then "Senator" becomes my name.

Being named "Senator" will not allow me to pass legislation, or even double-park, because it's just a word. Anybody can be "Dr" -- universities pass those out like party favours at commencement -- but it's not like you can practice medicine.

Avoid fraud, and you can call yourself what you like.

if you went to Harvey Mudd College...

[b0r1s]

you'd have access to my ftp server... which has 650+ megs of metallica mp3s.... oh, how i love my bandwidth and 50 gigs of storage :)

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[MrCreosote]

"she wants to see you again..
slowly twisting....in the wind"

some one a little sue happy

[ultra_5]

i mean come one what is with this i work at a school an no matter how much we try to censor that stuff that is accessed there is still stuff put on there that should not be or secruirty overrides done, part of it is the use of a mutli platform network which i persoanlally say and take responsibility for NOVELL SUCKS FOR DUAL PLATFORM SUPPORT, the thing about these thing is that you can't hold the schools accountable for this cause they aren't the ones downlaoding the stuff its the students that use it that should be held accountable, no don't get me wrong i am all for napster i love it there is alot of music from europe such as euro dance and alot of techno that never makes it to the us that i find over napster and have tried to buy but no one in the us will even order it and most of out of country music sellers are in another language that i don;t understand, with all sense schools can not be held account able for this, and on another note wtf is with evey one sueing each other its like i live in la again, every ones trying to milk evey little thing that happens even if the goverment steps in to help and takes care of the problem or not, now i persoanly hate the gover ment but dawm the recodring industry gets compenstated for the music that is piratad and the gross estimated loss of income due to pirate'ing and yes still these dawm people are complaining, what 50 million dollars isn't good enough for your greedy littl asses any more, take the dawm money and leve us alone and if you try to sue me good luck getting passed the dog and after that good luck living through a shotgun blast >:

okay sorry about that just had to voice that :)

Hooray for Metallica!

[OtterSkip]

What people seem to realize is that most Napster use is stealing. You can't get away from that with any number of free speech claims. I'm glad that Metallica is taking a stand as a concerned artist in this matter. Unlike most major label bands, they own the rights to all of their songs, and are therefore more directly affected by the free-distribution that is possible under Napster. Under US copyright law, if you don't try to protect your copyright, chances are you can lose it.

While I don't agree with Metallica on all counts (ie: Napster is not 100% evil and bad for artists, although it is mostly) I'm glad that they're taking the initiative as an artist to bring this issue into the light. With Lars on one side and Chuck D on the other, we can have a good, open debate about the future of music in the digital realm. Presumably Napster is only the beginning, so it's good that this is on the table now rather than later when it's too late to assure that artists still get paid, which I think we can agree is a Good Thing (tm).

_pete

Whats next ?

[kuiken]

By this letter, we ask you to also promptly ban
access by your community to any copy machine,
for they are being used to copy milions of books

i wonder, where will it stop ?
And i like to nominite Metalica for the "being the biggest sellouts in the history of music" award !

Re:Whats next ?

[MadAhab]

No kidding. They actually assert that the universities do not permit students to copy books in libraries. I can't tell you how many photocopies I have from Widener Library books at Harvard. The thing is, it isn't a cost-effective way to reproduce books, so people don't. But to claim that this is some kind of policy is barking mad and distracts from the real issue. You should always beware of people who attempt to cloud the real issue, as they are usually doing that to hide the fact that they are full shit.

Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.

I used to be a Metallica fan, but...

[chickenmonkeysoup]

This shit is turning my off so fucking much that I'm going to:

• give my Metallica CD's away, thus robbing them of more profits.
• find that free Napster server and run it on my PC full time.
• forget all of the songs I learned to play (the first 4 albums).

Geezuz, Metallica was the reason I learned to play guitar, 'One' was the first song I ever learned. Lars, fuck off and shut up before it's too late and you loose all your fanbase, is it too late already?

Metallica are becoming the biggest corporate assholes in the music business...

Sad, but true...

I guess I'll head out and buy a CD a little less commercial, like Britney Spears...

Napster@mycollege.edu

[yawhcihw]

At my small liberal-arts college, the administration has yet to take any stand against Napster. What the network people have done though is to limit the bandwith taken up by traffic on the Napster port. During the day, it's limited to 10% of our total bandwith. Since this step was implemented, I've noticed a dramatic increase in daytime transfer rates.

It's hard to believe that so much traffic, nearly all of it illegal, has been going through our lines. Soon the recording industry might not be the only ones looking to squelch Napster use on campus. I can certainly see university administrations cutting back on Napster's bandwith rather than buying expensive new internet connections.

Re:Napster@mycollege.edu

[Luminous]

The point you raise is a compelling one, but you have given the exact response most colleges and universities will have. They will put technological limits on available bandwidth (or as one other post mentions, put dorms on a seperate network with a seperate gateway). Many colleges and universities, especially liberal arts institutes, like to taut the concept of 'marketplace of ideas' and forcibly preventing an avenue of expression weakens this claim.

I do agree on putting limits, adding bottlenecks, just to protect areas of actual research and education from the fun and games of Napster (and other file sharing software).

The other thing you'll have to keep in mind that if Napster is banned, then the students will go back to ftp and hunting for the brief MP3 websites that appear and disappear. IRC trading will increase and bandwidth will still be affected.

Re:Napster@mycollege.edu

[IAmSancho]

The other thing you'll have to keep in mind that if Napster is banned, then the students will go back to ftp and hunting for the brief MP3 websites that appear and disappear. IRC trading will increase and bandwidth will still be affected.

Absolutely not. Most of the people who use Napster are idiots when it comes to computer stuff, especially on college campuses. They bitch and moan when "my Napster" doesn't work, usually because they f*cked something up. The fact is, though, that IRC trading and FTP servers are too difficult for your average stupid-person-college student to comprehend. It's just not as simple as napster where you can download the software and execute a search query. I sincerely wish they would ban napster on every college campus. Early evening hours are really slow and I just know it's because of other students using napster. The real consequence of banning napster would be the use of IRC and FTP by smart people... which believe it or not is a minorty. (More than 50% of everyone thinks they're above average.)

Metallica...scourge of higher education...

[b0z]

I wanted to flame them and say "These guys are just like J.P. from antionline now that they are threatening Harvard with no real legal backing." but I won't say that, even if it is true. :o)

It does seem pretty dumb from a logical point of view, but it falls into the same category as many other lawsuits and such nowdays -- Sue whoever is easiest to get the most money from rather than suing the guilty party.

Nevermind that it is the students at the schools, the majority who are over 18 and thus legally responsible for themselves as adults (In the U.S.) However, we all know this type of stupidity works in the courts. We have too many previous examples of these things already and I'm sure Metalligreed will win if Harvard doesn't bend over for a buttrock band of elderly hicks. After all, Lars' rights are more important than those of a college or the students that don't do anything wrong (both of them.) Nevermind that if there is a big settlement to Metallica, or if they win in a court case, that the schools will raise tuition and make everyone unable to afford school, and drop out, get a job at McDonalds, and listen to Metallica music while complaining about how much life sucks and how they can't make any money...but then again, maybe that's the idea.

BoZ - who would be leaping for joy if a giant meteor was heading directly to destroy the Earth.

This ban is ridiculous.

[0x25]

I don't know if Metallica's legal department has a technical advisor, but banning Napster will be a heck of a lot harder than they think.

In order for someone to bypass any restriction that may be in place, they need to re-adjust the server to listen at new ports. This is probably one of many ways to circumvent restrictions. There are so many things that can be done to traffic to alias it to be something else.

So, how will any administrator be able to effectively block Napster traffic? Stateful firewalls? How many universities are going to run out and get stateful firewalls? My understanding is that those devices may not even be able to handle the amount of traffic generated.

How long are they going to jump around trying to get everyone to stop using Napster?

I Hate Metallica

[NSupremo]

How many millions of their money are they spending on these "lawsuits" (cough publicity) There is absolutely nothing anyone can do about music "piracy"

Re:Really In Touch

[dirk]

What you MEANT to say was: "If Napster is being used for fair use by even one person, anywhere on earth, even if that person is a hermit living in a cave with magical electrical and internet hookups who has no other contact with the outside world whatsoever, to the point where no one's even completely certain he really exists, you have a case."
Since it is, he does. The legitimate use is NOT secondary, damn it all, even if it's less common.

So in other words, no one should ever compromise anything, ever. There may be one guy who has a legitamate need for anthrax, so we should all be allowed to have it. One guy in a cave may really need a nuclear weapon to protect himself, so it's okay for everyone to have it. HEll, there may be one guy who really needs to drive but can't pass the drivers test, so it's okay if everyone drives without a license. Everything in life is a compromise. If something has little (bordering on no) legitimate use, then it shoudl be treated that way. That's why guns are treated differently than knives, knives have a myriad of legitamate uses, while guns have few. Just because one person can find a way to use something in a way that is justidied doesn't mean we should just throw up oru hands and say that it's obviously a great and useful tool. Why are lock-picking tools illegal (except for locksmiths)? Surely there is one guy who has a use, but overwhelmingly that is not the case. The same rational applies here.

Hey Lars!

[jea6]

Why just the major universities and not, say, @Home? Heck, for kicks, lets go after all bandwidth providers. Or go for a court order injuncting Napster from bandwidth. That would do the trick. Ban Napster from the Net. Yup, that would take care of it.

Did anyone catch...

[pingflood]

...the anti-Napster clip during the MTV awards a few days ago? While I do think copying music is bad (mmmkay) what they showed was Lars and some others stealing actual physical items from someone and basically stating that it was ok according to Napster. Granted, I suppose the average MTV weenie wouldn't be capable of grasping anything more involved than ``uhh, they're, like, totally stealing this stuff'' I think it was in poor taste and misrepresenting the actual issue...

Ohwell.

-pf

Re:Ya know what we need?

[civilizedINTENSITY]

Can you spell "restrain of interstate trade"?

Re:Ya know what we need?

[civilizedINTENSITY]

obviously i can't

Re:Wrong...

[slashdot-me]

If you want notes just grab a midi file. :-)

Ryan

that's just a cover

[Captain Pillbug]

of Four Lads's original. Popular, but hardly innovative.

If you can't see the difference between NFS & Na..

[bugg]

If you can't see the difference between NFS and Napster, you're lying to yourself. Here's the difference: NFS is a protocol. How it's used is what determines its legality. Now, some will tell you that Napster is a protocol too, which is it, but that's not what is being attacked. The Napster SERVICE is what is in trouble, because it's geared for and dominated by illegal traffic.

If Napster were at least making _some_ attempt to filter out copyright material, I'd have sympathy for Napster- but they don't. Comeon, a few regexp statements could block out the major names in music no sweat.

It'd have been better if Napster had never existed

[Dan Hayes]

There are a lot of real issues which we, as a society, are involved in at the moment thanks to the "information revolution" to use a Katzian phrase. Definitions of intellectual property may need changing, the concepts of copyright and patent law need adapting, and the issues of freedom on the net is something that we need to think about extremely seriously.

And then there's Napster. Whilst there are many arguments used, both here on /. and in the current court case, to justify what they're doing these arguments are all sophistry designed to avoid the conclusion that Napster is designed to facilitate the piracy of copyrighted materials. We know it, Napster knows it, and the RIAA sure as hell know it. Why are we defending them when they do nothing but harm for other, more worthwhile causes?

Napster has done almost irrepairable harm to the concept of online digital media. The RIAA and MPAA now feel that they have no choice but to defend their artist's rights in every way they can, and hopes for a meaningful solution that pleases everyone dwindles rapidly. And it has become rediculously easy to paint geeks as "pirates", "theives" and "hackers" devoted to bringing down the foundations of our capitalist economy. And by using Napster, you're proving them right.

These colleges will fold and deny Napster to their students, and they'll be justified in doing so. Whatever else they are, these places aren't designed to be platforms for piracy, and the high-speed network connections they provide aren't meant for illegal uses. More to the point, they're a privilige rather than a right. And thanks to Napster, they're a privlige which could be withdrawn. The last thing these establishments need is legal trouble through no fault of their own.

We really need to boycott Napster, it does nothing but harm our image and those causes worth fighting for. Otherwise, Napster will be the excuse used for organisations and government to implement repressive controls over the net the same way Columbine was used to implement repressive controls over firearms.

Re:Copying in the Library??

[EEEthan]

I noticed this myself and just couldn't resist posting.
A university is a collection of two things: people and books. If students lose access to either of these things, a university education is useless, or at least very, very overpriced.
There is something new in this equation, however. Free, fast access to the internet via ethernet. In my experience at Columbia(I am now a senior) this has perhaps been the most enlightening. It was always on and available, unlike the libraries, and definitely unlike professors. Starting when I did, in 1997, I've seen quite a large change in the importance of the internet. Freshman year, the most productive thing we used the net for was quake. Now ordering from Kozmo.com is completely ubiquitous, as is most i-commerce. But there are far more important things as well. Unrestricted net access allows amazing opportunities for computer learning; I've learned a whole lot about networking and unix from the unrestricted ethernet. I also use academic resources like Tufts University's Perseus project.
What I'm trying to say, if you haven't guessed, is that unrestricted net access is just as important as unrestricted library access, and access to world-class professors. I would be very, very disturbed if Columbia or another world-class university began selectively blocking internet access. There is only one reason why a student should go to any of these universities, and that is unrestricted access to information.
If these universities fall to the base concerns of the recording industry, I have little hope for this country or the world in general. I'm starting to long for the unregulated, community-driven internet of my first years in college, and I'm afraid that I'm not going to lose that feeling for quite some time.

dialasong now on the web

[abryden]

www.dialasong.com or you can still call the phone number, but I forget what the phone number is, the web version is more canned than the phone number - which actually has new and strange material.
Aaron Bryden

MP3s *ARE* fair use!

[Sq]

You said the magic words..."fair use copying". People are copying a page or two, not whole books. If people started flocking to libraries and copying whole books (maybe they have free copy day or something that makes it economically feasible) do you think they would just let it happen? Do you think they would allow their resources to be used to copy hundreds of books a day? Not a chance

This just occured to me -- MP3s are actually fair use after all !

You see, I study lossy audio compression algorithms, particulary MP3s. I take original work (.WAV from Audio CD), apply various filters to it, cut some of the data (all above 16khz), apply low and high pass filters, also losing information, etc, until there is very little left of the original work (usually less than 1/10h is that original work).

And after all conversions and algorithams applied, there are very few pieces of the original work that remains intact (if any). So, you see, I've created new work using original work, so that falls under fair use.

Oh, and the nature of this research requires me to distribute those new works (for which I own copyright) via napster, so people can hear them and give me feedback on how well the algorithms worked out (like: "hey d00d, don't uS3 lAm3 sH1Tty 112kbs!! mE 133t HaX0r wAnnA 256kbs!!!!")

not all musicians are stupid

[krog]

i might cite Dr. Dexter Holland (lead singer, Offspring) or Dr. Milo Aukerman (lead singer, Descendents) as extreme examples (punk rockers with doctorates).

have you ever lived near a college before?? do you know how many bands come out of them??

Re:sorry to say this....

[Guyver3]

ok, actually, it isn't port blocking, it was removal of the entire napster domain from view, and something else that blocks proxies which i am forgetting about at this moment

Pitiful

[Crewd]

"......claiming that these university defendants should be held liable for copyright infringement for their knowing facilitation of the massive copyright infringements occurring through Napster."

Ok, what's next? Should Napster's upstream provider be added as a defendant? How about the property management company that leases them the space to house thier physical servers? How about every single place that my network traffic hops through to get to napster and back? I guess my place of employment should be a defendant also since I have accessed Napster from there. The list goes on and on. This is just plain stupid. If Metallica and partners have a problem with Napster, fight the battle with Napster. There is no reason to bring others into this pitiful waste of time.

Re:Pitiful

[majikkid]

The best answer to Metallica is to show them the door. They had their time in the spotlight, and they spit in the faces of their fans. So, next time they go on tour, or release an album, ignore it. They're gonna look pretty sad onstage playing to a half-dozen people. And when they don't recover the costs of recording their next CD from album sales, maybe it'll be the last one they put out. I'm not really asking much here...I mean they already suck, and have for quite some time. The only difference is that now we should stop giving them chances. I really think that their popularity in the last few years has been something of an aftermath from when they were good. People kept hoping that they would go back to being the Metallica of old, so they bought each new album faithfully, praying that this time there would be no love songs. And the fans got rooked each time. So, that being said, let's let this sell-out, has-been band hang themselves with this Napster issue. I mean, who exactly do they think will buy the next Metallica "Tribute to American Polka" album? ..... As for Dre, is this guy for real? There are just too many social issues to hit when speaking of Dre, so I'll just keep my opinions to myself, except to say this: Many people are watching you Dre. You owe them something, they made you what you are. Don't help to hold them down. -*Just my nickel*-

Re:Metallica v UUNET

[Aloekak]

A bank gets robbed. The guy gets away with 5 million dollars. You DON'T sue the State Board of Transportation for creating the highways. You have police/fbi to hunt them down for you. That's the way the system works. If you know where he is, tell the PROPER authorities, don't waste others time and money because you're too lazy to do the damn job on your own.

--Justin

Yeah!!!

[AbbyNormal]

That's the solution! I'm beginning to feel that the only group of people that are actually benefitting from this lawsuit are the lawyers. I'm wondering who is pressuring who to sue and whether in fact the law firms own the RIAA by convincing them that these "warnings" are worth the time. I mean it seems that they think that this is the proper way to protect their rights by threatening others...is it really solving the overall problem though? They are just angering their fan base and cash flow while not coming close to stopping the flow of MP3's. Sure..they take down Napster, but what message does that send to the people? There are Gnuttella, Aimster, Gnapster, etc...with lots more being added to the list everyday that are getting a lot better and anonoymizing the transfers. Its not a matter of losing, but of trusting their fans.

Re:read the fine print

[avail]

Right, the record company has rights to my work, which are granted in exchange for their money put up to pay for studio time, marketing, and so forth.

I don't doubt that bands get pretty raped at first, but the fact is, under the system in place, many more artists are able to make a living from their work than say, 100 years ago. This is in part because 100 years ago, the proper channels didn't exist for artists to gain widespread exposure quickly.

"In that case you could proabably use any form of distro you can get (even those that dont pay)"

Yes, but the choice is still mine. And just becuase I "sell" my rights to the label in exchange for "development" (read above) doesn't mean their rights are any less valid.

I should not have just said artist though. This goes further than "artist" and should include anyone who produces/creates new property. The producers have rights over their work, until they decide otherwise, or the work is moved into the Public Domain.

If we destroy the concept of property rights, we become a communist society. It's that simple. That's the difference between capitalism and communism. Capitalist believe in individual rights, Communists believe in group rights.

Personally, I would rather see a society where everyone has rights, than one where your rights are dictated by the political whims of common mobs.

What's Next

[GM_Treefrog]

All right, this is getting absurd. With the advent of Gnutella do we really need to watch as Metallica continues their war against Napster? I was never a big Metallica fan to begin with, but with their anti-progressive stance on "free" music I have turned into a full blown Metallica hater. So what are they going to try next, have everyone register the content of their hard-drives with the major record lables so that they can monitor any illicit traffic? Give me a break, I just wish that Metallica would curl up and die, we have enough bastards in Congress trying to restrict our freedom on the internet. It used to be these guys were good old fashion rockers with a huge following in the blue collar, beer drinking community. Just goes to show that enough money can corrupt any soul. There is an expression that I heard once that I find oddly appropriate in this situation. "If Metallica where on fire, I wouldn't piss on them to put it out."

Re:What's Next

[ShadowDragon]

No offence, but have you seen the sheer volume of Napster vs Gnutella? The only other of these type of apps I've been able to find the obscure (in this country at least) stuff I want is on Scour, and still only 1/8th of what Napster has.

Buy what I can via the import section of CDnow and Amazon, and find the unavailiable (outside of Europe/Asia) stuff via Napster. Gnutella could give me a whole 1 album which is availiable anywhere, Scour a few of the singles, Napster the rest.

If you can convince everyone to switch to Gnutella then it might be worth a lot more than it is now.

Copying in the Library??

[malkavian]

"They ought to seriously address this issue of intellectual property. They certainly aren't allowing students to copy books in the university library."

Ok.. So, what are all those photocopiers for?? I take it that these people went to Uni to study something.
If they did, then, I'd hazard a guess they they did copy the books in the library for reference..
I know I did, and so did everyone else on my degree.. And everyone else there!! How else were we to be able to study effectively??
I think they've gone far enough with all this napster attacking. It won't do any more good, apart from to get Metallica's name in the press even more, and increase the disdain felt for them by people who have a reasonably sensible view of life.
The courts are already dealing with this, so why try and pre-empt things with possible hints at legal proceedings in the future? They'll never block everything, and will only waste valuable resources trying to do so.
The world will end up working as it will, despite the lawyers and the nit-picking legislation that's being waved around by the clueless.. So I wish they'd just lighten up and stop trying to stomp on anything and everything they can see...

Reminds me of an old joke:
Q: What do puppies and large corporations have in common?
A: They feel the need to piss on everything just to try and prove it's theirs.


Malk

Atrists Income??

[greendeath]

Statements like this-- I believe that you can easily recognize the irony of encouraging your students to matriculate in the creative arts, while engaging in behavior which, if unchecked, will make it impossible for those students to earn an income from their future creative efforts and the previous ones from the sony president should be interpreted as "we will fight to protect our HUGE INCOMES". Most of these artists make millions of dollars a year, are they really going to starve because os Napster?? I think not. This is part of the reason Napster is so popular with poor college kids, They have to pay $12-$15 per cd so that Metallica can buy a new private jet and party with Hot Models. I know it pisses me off too. I would rather see Metallica make about $200K/year and my kids schoolteachers or the cop that puts his life on the line everyday make $400K. I think musicians would still produce music if they could only make $200,000/year. I am willing to pay for music, just not $1+ per song, take the bad songs out of the equation and Im paying like $3-$5 per good song on a CD. I would rather pay my $1 and download only the ones I like.

...

[Haven]

We all know the root of the problem is that damn IPv4 and TCP/IP.

I say Metallica sue Universities that use IPv4 and TCP/IP.

Re:...

[Kidney3.14]

Most people at the universities use computers connected to the Internet with ethernet cards. Sue Bob Metcalf. He's the problem. Fsck. This is stupid. I feel like I just lost 50 IQ points for that.

Re:...

[MaxGrant]

Why don't we see if we can get Metallica to sue Vint Cerf?

Re:If only there was a web site . . .

[davebo]

Well, a quick search on Google turned up about 953,000 such sites.

I personally like Congress.org's site, which lets you mail your Senators and Congressperson all at the same time.

Legality vs. Practice of copying books

[rxmd]

In Bonn university, where I study, it is quite common that people copy entire books if they need them for study. This happens for good reasons, because when you need books that were published in 1767 for your studies rather extensively, the university can't expect you to buy the thing antiquarically.

I think that at least over here in Germany, it cannot be guaranteed that everybody can buy all of the books that they need for studying, even when it's not the extreme case of books out of print for 200 years. Personally, I study computer science, neural information processing, Islamic studies and Arabic linguistics. In three of these subjects, it is extremely difficult to get hold of the needed books at affordable prices. If I want to read something by an Arabic author, nobody can expect me to hop on a plane to Cairo to buy it there. And if it's a library where more than one person may need the book in question, the logical solution is: copy it and carry it home.

As far as I know, copying excerpts from books for educational reasons is legal in Germany at any rate, and as far as I can remember it, copying books for personal educational use is free even if you take the whole book.

It seems that Mr. Metallica has never been studying or even bothered to ask anyone familiar with university environments before making such statements. Honestly, even though the average Harvard student is richer already than I can hope ever to be, I don't believe that you're officially forbidden to copy a book if you happen to need it.

Don't allow students to copy books?

[perp]

Mr King says "They ought to seriously address this issue of intellectual property. They certainly aren't allowing students to copy books in the university library."

Is he serious? Back in the dark ages when I went to University, there were photocopiers all over the library. Is it different now?

Re:Don't allow students to copy books?

[Steelehead]

You copy entire books?

Re:Don't allow students to copy books?

[KjetilK]

It's not different now. It's called Fair Use and anybody trying to take away that right should figure out whats more important in life.

Re:Don't allow students to copy books?

[funkman]

But how many students copy a whole book? They copy part of it, usually for research purposes for a report. The student then cites the book as part of the report. No intellectual property is lost because the author is credited.

Re:University of Tennessee solution

[GMontag]

Actually, I do know how messed up it is.

Part of my relief is that they are leaving the dorms connected at all, instead of forcing the students to use only connections from the library when they feel like having the labs manned.

At least erring on the side of doing almost nothing is better than the overreaction other schools have been doing.

My motto for government is "don't just do something, stand there".

Visit DC2600

Re:Demonstrations

[zdarnell]

The thought of a bunch of nerds running around yelling about napster makes be laugh. (and yes, I know not everyone is the "pocket protector and jeans up to the neck" nerd, so shaddap)

Re:Demonstrations

[debren]

Like banning Razcal from the soda machines?

A proper response

[Sleestack]

To: Metallica Lawyers
From: University
Subj: Copyright issues

We have read your request and agree with your concern over our students obtaining and listening to illegally-produced copies of your client's music. In response, we have enacted policies stating that our students should no longer listen to your client's music.
I hope this meets to your satisfaction.

Re:The Lazy Man's Guide to Getting Stuff Posted on

[pingflood]

Road E:
(1) Make sure the submission is suitable for CmdrTaco to plug his bad-a$$ laptops.

I agree....

[cvillopillil]

Who is this Dr Dre character? Is he really a doctor? Doctor of what? Is he a medical doctor or an academic doctor? What role does he play in the Napster/Metallica confrontation?

How are Dr Dre and Metallica linked, and is it some kind of conspiracy to promote the restriction of freedom of university students around the country?

All these questions must be answered.

University of Tennessee solution

[GMontag]

While on a recent vacation, I stopped in and spoke with some of my old network and computer lab bosses and they filled me in on the UT practice and plans for the future.

Note, I have not seen the written policy, this is what several very knowledgable people told me that they do and are planning on doing.

First, neither Napster, nor anything else, is blocked. Free speech is king, so no filtering is done by the school.

They have had a problem with the dorms eating up so much of the total bandwidth, slowing down staff and administration along with the dorms themselves. So, the plan is to put the dorms on a seperate network and seperate gateway from the rest of the school. Quoting a friend "if the students want to gring their network to a hault trading music and videos, let them, it's fine with us."

I am not sure if Metallica has heard of this yet, but if they decide to force censorship on that university (with 20,000+ students) they will probably have a fight on their hands.

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Re:University of Tennessee solution

[msnomer]

I'm glad UT isn't playing Big Brother, but I'd be really pissed if I were a student in a UT dorm and not getting any bandwidth because of pirates. Just because some of the students don't mind grinding their network to a halt doesn't mean I have to suffer also, does it? What's wrong with limiting the bandwidth snarfed by each node?

--meredith

Really In Touch

[Hrunting]

They certainly aren't allowing students to copy books in the university library.

This just shows how in touch lawyers are with the real world. All students copy books in the university library. Professors do it, too. They copy to take pages back to their dorm rooms for studying purposes. They copy to write term papers (who says plagiarism's dead?!). Professors copy entire novellas for the express purpose of handing them out in class (students are notorious for not wanting to go to libraries, and libraries are notorious for never having the book).

Fair use copying goes on every day, and to compare the Internet to a library where nothing gets copied is to completely misunderstand how college libraries are used.

Re:Really In Touch

[dirk]

Fair use copying goes on every day, and to compare the Internet to a library where nothing gets copied is to completely misunderstand how college libraries are used.

You said the magic words..."fair use copying". People are copying a page or two, not whole books. If people started flocking to libraries and copying whole books (maybe they have free copy day or something that makes it economically feasible) do you think they would just let it happen? Do you think they would allow their resources to be used to copy hundreds of books a day? Not a chance, but because the resource is net access and it's music instead of books it's suddenly okay? If Napster was used for fair use by most people you would have a case. But I would guess that 90% of people use it download music so they don't have to pay for it. It's not stuff they have on CD already, it's stuff they don't have and want without paying for it. LAst time I checked, that's not covered under fair use.

Re:I'll be sending a letter of my own...

[Progoth]

miles, apparantly high-up in the OIT or resnet chain of command, said "we're not gonna ban it." he said it's up to us to check ourselves in what we do with the bandwidth, tech's just the isp. who knows what the administration will think...but they probably don't know a whole lot about network admin.

Re:who rocks the house?

[derrickh]

I thought MTV was taking an anti-napter stand. They had the Napster creator guy on stage for about 1 minute and quickly got him out of there, but Metallica got a whole anti-Napster skit that made it look like Napster is the tool of dumb college kids.

It could be worse. Much worse.

[AFCArchvile]

"I hear They Might Be Giants is gonna respond by going after universities that use NFS. "

My college is still using NetWare and an ISP that only gives us a 266 ping on the Internet (last time I checked, that was the latency of a 56K modem). I am personally leading a campaign for a network system overhaul. Armed with complaints of my fellow comrades and tracert printouts, I head to the IT department up in arms!

Napster v. RIAA fun

[plorqk]

This is a parody I wrote making fun of Napster, RIAA, Metallica, Dr. Dre, and most of all, boy bands. It's amateurish, but amusing. It just needs to be recorded. Buy Buy Buy By Kevin K Moore A song parody of Bye Bye Bye by N'Sync N'RIAA (N'R) Hey Hey Buy buy buy Buy buy buy Buy buy buy [They're waving their CDs in front of other customers in a music store, doing a boy band dance] [Focus in on a person deciding on whether or not to buy a CD. After NB shows up, N'R shows up and they begin to clash in front of the person] Napstereet Boys (NB) Ooh ooh ooh You could download this tonight N'R You should probably just buy it out right NB You know Napster's alright N'R Hey, buy it come on! NB Download it effortlessly When no one's around to see Don't cost nothin' you see M-p-3s to own Chorus N'R You know that we can't take piracy no more It ain't no lie Better purchase it 'fore going out that door Do buy buy buy NB Buy? Buy? Don't wanna be a tool, do you? Just another resource of rev-e-nue They're control freaks And it ain't no lie Don't buy buy buy (buy buy) N'R Buy! Buy! We're really gonna sue your butts NB D'you know copyright laws just aren't good enough Might sound crazy, but... N'R Your business will die NB Don't buy buy buy end chorus N'R No! No! No! N'R Soon they'll be hit with the truth There's nothing really free in this life Soon the courts will agree with our sound reasoning Metallica and Dr. Dre Have really come to see that Business would be better once Napster's gone Repeat Chorus NB We know we're gonna win it for sure They can't keep up with internet technology no more N'R Buy! Buy! NB They're tryin' to Keep it caught up They are gonna be the loser When will they get it? [The person is sick of their squabbling] Person (P) I don't want to be a pawn In this game you two So I'm leavin' you behind Bye Bye Bye So you better just work it out N'R & NB Work it out? P But I've had enough And it ain't no lie Bye bye bye [Person makes a half handed good bye gesture] P Bye Byyyyyye babe I don't want to be a pawn NB Don't want to be a tool, do you? Just another resource of rev-e-nue P I don't want to be a pawn And it ain't no lie N'R We're really gonna sue your butts NB You're really gonna sure our butts? P I just wanna tell you that I had enough N'R & NB You've had enough? P Might sound crazy But it ain't no lie Bye Bye Bye [Person makes half handed good bye gesture again] N'R & NB Bye bye? [The person walks out] Notes: Completed over 2 days, 8/7/2000 and 8/23/2000. This is sung by 2 boy bands, the Napstereet Boys, and N'RIAA. © 2000 by LM Productions and Kevin K Moore

I say that we revolt.

[Steveftoth]

As the imortal Human Torch used to say:

Flame ON!

Everyone vs. Metalica.

I say that we orginise a national burn all your Metalica shit day. They will never again get another of my grubby money. Those bastards. Go back to the flaming hell that you say you came from you whores.

NEWS FLASH: After selling their souls to Satan, the rock group Metalica has decided to wage war upon the minds and souls of those who wanted to be them. This is insane! Go back to hell and die. DIE DIE DIE. And die some more.

Re:It'd have been better if Napster had never exis

[JoelClark]

I think I smell a troll, but I will retort nonetheless...

We need to support them because the RIAA is trying to ban the sharing of files with a certain 3-digit extension. Period. There is no "we really know" qualification. Furthermore, the reason we are "painted" as theives and hackers is because society as a whole does not understand our culture. Boycotting Napster does not fix that, either.

What does Metallica hope to gain?

[Lxy]

They tried suing Napster. They tried kicking users off of Napster. Now they're trying to ban Napster from Universities. Why does Metallica honestly think it has the power/resources/legal team to stop online piracy? Even after all their whining, C&D letters, and lawsuits a quick search for "Metallica" on Napster still brings back a complete list of albums and music from thousands of music pirates. Why doesn't Metallica realize that the harder they try to stop piracy, the more pirates are going to run around laughing at them for being so ignorant. This was brought up a couple days ago by an article in Cnet, where Digital Convergence claimed that it won the war against pirates. In reality, it ends up that every single day some member of the media (and the /. audience thereafter) starts ripping on of these companies that just don't understand the nature of piracy. It may be immoral, it may be illegal, but that won't stop some people. Metallica needs to realize that and stop whining already.

"You'll die up there son, just like I did!" - Abe Simpson

Harvard Art School and Kinko's

[Elvis Maximus]

I believe that you can easily recognize the irony of encouraging your students to matriculate in the creative arts

At Harvard?

while engaging in behavior which, if unchecked, will make it impossible for those students to earn an income from their future creative efforts.

...unless they come up with some kind of new, creative business model that was not only compatible with the new realities presented by the Internet, but made loads of money from them. And that certainly would not be in keeping with the ethos of the Ivy League. Status quo or death!

"They ought to seriously address this issue of intellectual property. They certainly aren't allowing students to copy books in the university library."

What the hell university did this guy go to? Half of my professors made me pick up my course book -- a collection of articles from other books and journals -- at Kinko's.

-

Re:who rocks the house?

[Rakarra]

I thought MTV was taking an anti-napter stand. They had the Napster creator guy on stage for about 1 minute and quickly got him out of there, but Metallica got a whole anti-Napster skit that made it look like Napster is the tool of dumb college kids.

Which basically goes to show MTV's mindset: they don't want to take a stand. This way they can please both sides. They'd rather not lose support of the artists, but they know that dumbshits make up a good portion of their viewership as well, and don't want to piss them off either.

revokable, but not easily

[hawk]

Yes, universities can revoke degrees, but it generally requires fraud or dishonbesty on retaining the degree. Iowa State revoked a Ph.D. while I was there over plagiarism.

OTOH, there is abuse of this power. MIT purported to revoke a degree a couple of years ago after a DUI related death . . .

New sign on school campuses.

[Stavr0]

Right below the traditional "This school is a drug-free zone" will be :
"This school is a Metallica-free zone, prosecutors will be violated."
---

yes it would

[hawk]

In many states, a degree from an ABA accreditted school is a requirement for membership. If the degree went away, the person would be unable to practice.

Then again, the courts would probably refuse to recognize a purported revocation for the offense of suing the school . . .

They don't care about their image?

[Evro]

With Metallica's recent actions, the Napster mess as well as lame stuff like doing the Artist Direct ads & Mission Impossible soundtrack, I wonder if they care at all about the image they project. I know this has been mentioned many times before but they have completely done in their underground fanbase and now are likely only listened to by the backstreet boys crowd.

Then again I even still listen to the old stuff (bought before the napster fiasco, of course.). Metallica & an orchestra? Give me a fucking break.

__________________________________________________ ___

Joke

[Hard_Code]

You surely must be joking about They Might Be Giants. I think I would weep if they dropped from their elevated dorky-but-cool status, to absolutely lame.

I'll be sending a letter of my own...

[OverCode@work]

I'm a student at Georgia Tech, supposedly one of the recipients of this letter, and I think I'll be sending in a letter of my own. Universities supposedly stand for unbarred access to information, and GaTech has done a good job of running an open residential network (www.resnet.gatech.edu) so far. Blocking Napster would set a very bad precedent, and this must be stopped.

I don't even use Napster (or Scour, Gnutella, etc). A good chunk of my MP3s are from my own CDs, and the rest came from my friends' computers. I don't like Metallica (on the basis of their music), so I don't think I have more than one or two of their songs, and I think I even have a tape with those songs somewhere. They're never going to stop peer to peer trading unless they a) block all incoming ports to each IP, or b) hire packet nannies to inspect every transfer for copyrighted material. But even though a ban on Napster would be easy to work around, I would be deeply saddened if they were to cave in to legal pressure and enact it. If freedom of information(*) doesn't stand at universities, where will it stand?

-John

(* - I don't consider piracy to be a form of freedom of information - but restricting the right to run certain types of software that does have even a slim chance of being used with legal motives is a VERY bad thing)

Penn State is taken a similar path

[hawk]

We received an email today from the Executive VP advising that the use of Napster for copyrighted materials is illegal and in violation of university policy. It also advised that the University periodically monitors traffic patterns, and mentioned that Bad Things happen vor violating state & federal law asnd university policies. But they are *not* banning napster outright (after all, there are probably one or two staff or stuents that actually have used it for something legal :)

Additionally, it showed us that our executive vp DOESN"T KNOW ANY BETTER THAN TO USE ALL CAPS IN HIS SUBJECT LINE TO GET ATTENTION. (which normally would have meant that it got filtered to my spame folder or /dev/null, but that seems to be missing from .maildelivery at the moment)

Intellectual Property, but for how long?

[jefe289]

The whole issue here, again, is "preservation of intellectual property."

For those readers out there who are still making up their minds on the issue:

It is irrational, and probably not just for a record label to maintain ownership of a work of art forever. These laws are in place to protect the song's artist, not to provide them and their label with an unending source of income - that's unjust!

In inudustry, if you make a component, or a device, product, etc. You can maintain intellectual property for 10 or 17 years... depending. In the music businesss... its forever! Does that seem logical? No.

We should limit the rights of intellectual property for musical works to something like 3-5 years MAXIMUM. Last summer, 'N Sync made close to 70 Million dollars in concerts. So you can't tell me the artists will go broke! Nobody intends to take away their right to make money from cds and concert shows. It just about the justice to be able to copy someone elses work - it is legal! (at the very least, after some finite time period)

The Hetfields and the McCoys

[Zildy]

The Hetfields and the McCoys.

The irreverent new sitcom, only on the WB! Their anger knows no bounds, and neither does the comedy!

It's the "Odd Couple" for the new millennium, starring James Hetfield and Dr. Leonard "Bones" McCoy.

This week, James discovers Dr. McCoy's Napster exploits.

Hetfield: Bones, what are these MP3s doing on your computer?

McCoy: Um...I, ahh...can't you see this man is dying? They're the only thing that can save him!

Hetfield: What man? No, you've engaged in the illegal distribution of copyrighted musical compositions.

McCoy: Damnit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not an MP3 pirate!

Hetfield: I dub thee "unforgiven".

McCoy: Why...you green blooded son of a bitch. Nurse, 20 CCs of "whoop-ass", stat!

Daa daa daa daa daa daaaa dadada daa, dooleeeoooo, dooleeoooo...

(cue laugh track)

Re:documents on reserve - totally different Situat

[quick_dry_3]

DISCLAIMER: I support Napster as a tool for mp3 distribution, I don't support the people who say that breaking copyright should be OK because e.g. "information wants to be free, d00d"

the key points were "make photocopies of the pages they needed to read","rare", and the context - using the books/copies of portions of those books for purely academic purposes.

This is indeed fair use, but its in a completely context to (most) Napster use. Napster is legitimate for trading music that isn't copyrighted, or where the artist(s) have given permission to freely exchange that music.

If you copied portions of a song, then the matter would be a little grey - do club DJ's pay royalties if they sample from songs? probably.

Be honest, even if a book is "extremely expensive" we all know that copying the whole thing would be in violation of copyright, maybe for "academic purposes" its fine and dandy in the US, but likening this to commercial sales would be like saying that its OK to distribute copies of Maya, or M$ Office - we all know its not. Same thing.

Maybe people need o stop thinking of it in terms of "music" and as a "commercial product"

Comparing copying text portions for academic purposes and commercial products for your own are like comparing apples and oranges - they're not the same thing.

Don't be mean to TMBG...

[brogdon]

TMBG has been selling full albums in mp3 format for at least three years now, and they have a new mp3 album coming out real soon. They've always been at the forefront of the technological part of their industry. It's the record companies that want to hold back mp3 distribution so they can continue to bleed us on CDs. Leave They Might Be Giants alone!


--Brogdon

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[landtuna]

Moderate this up! TMBG's been supporting MP3 models for years!

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[abram_fettig]

Based on what I know about TMBG, I'm pretty sure their attack on NFS was not intended to be serious. They're just trying to make the point that Napster is only one of many, many, methods of transferring files over the internet, and if you ban Napster it's no big deal for everyone to switch to another protocol.

( Keep in mind that TMBG, unlike some other bands, has a sense of humor. )

Abe

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[ciaohound]

...and for those who aren't familiar with them, they have a real history of championing new technologies for communicating with their fans, like Dial-a-Song, which started as a simple answering machine in the 1980's and evolved into a kind of testing ground for their new material. Some of the stuff on their "Then" compilation album were original recordings for this format, along with a few messages left by callers (fans and otherwise).

--

Re:Don't be mean to TMBG...

[don_carnage]

Wow, I actually remember calling the Dial-A-Song service! Perhaps they can bring that back on an 800 number, or maybe streaming audio. But wait, would I have the have a license to listen to that?

They want to stop the one's who want prosthetic foreheads on their heads, but everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on their real heads.

--

They tried this at Ohio State...

[SisterRay45]

I attend the Ohio State University and they made a decision to block napster for the sake of our network traffic and because it runs what is basically a server service which violated our AUP.

Anyway, I found that since I was using Gnapster and connecting to opennap network servers i wasn't being affected. I found a little program called napagator and gave it to a few people around my dorm and within a few weeks basically everyone was on again. Basically, students want napster and will find a way to get it. I don't think that Metallica realizes just how useless what they're attempting is.

Though I did enjoy the little bit in their letter to Harvard about how Napster would make it impossible to make money from their creative works...I would say that a recording contract basically does that, I'm not sure if Napster can take much more than a record company already does.

Best wishes,

Jon

TMBG is Hardcore Geek Music

[Ex Machina]

For gos sake they werte on the frontpage of the onion a couple of weeks ago:

They Might Be Giants Behind The Music Episode Lacks Sex, Drugs NEW YORK--The new They Might Be Giants episode of VH1's Behind The Music is devoid of sex and drugs, sources reported Monday. "Man, we haven't had that much trouble finding something juicy since the 'Weird Al' episode," VH1 senior vice-president Bill Flanagan said. "We can almost always hit paydirt with a band's groupies, but in They Might Be Giants' case, they're all 31-year-old computer programmers." The They Might Be Giants episode largely focused on keyboardist/accordionist John Linnell's harrowing early-'90s addiction to Tetris.

The only problem of TMBG for me is that they remind me of a stupid ex-girlfriend. does anyone get the NFS joke? I don't. Oh yeah... get the full version of TMBG - Boss of me off of napster -- it rules!

Re:TMBG is Hardcore Geek Music

[ZoneGray]

I don't know about the early 90's, but I knew John Linnell in the early 80's, and he OWNED Asteroids.

Re:WTF are they doing?

[Uberminky]

Where I go to school (Indiana University, Bloomington) they banned Napster for a while.. then a while later they reinstated it, but set it up to only use local servers. I believe they were the first to do it.. (Or at least close. I don't know, I don't live on-campus..)

. ._ _ .__. ___ ___ ._ _. _.. _. .. .

Re:who rocks the house?

[B'Trey]

They're running some really lame commercials where Lars comes into a students dorm room while he's using Napster. The student claims he's just "sharing," so Lars starts slapping Napster stickers on everything and taking them, claiming he's just "sharing" too.

Not responible....

[photozz]

Someone made a very good point when they asked if the phone company, like the universities, could be "sued" or asked to cut off service to those downloading MP3's over a dialup. I think no way, the filtering and overhead would be incredible. I can understand limiting bandwidth due to congestion, but the schools should not be responsible as a connection provider.

Ya know what we need?

[iceT]

We need some artist to sue a university for BLOCKING Napster. I mean, if an artist wants to distribute music via Napster (say because a record company won't pick them up), then they should be able to, right?

Although, I bet I know what will happen, the band with the most money will win.

Re:who rocks the house?

[jcroft]

That's not a commercial, it's the afore mentioned skit from the Video Music Awards.
----------
Jeff Croft
http://jeffcroft.com
http://industrystandard.org
http://newbeetle.org

Napster & Harvard

[UncleOzzy]

I'm at Harvard right now, sitting in my dorm room, using Napster. To the best of my knowledge, our policy about Napster (which is currently nonexistent) has nothing to do with copyright (we're officially bound by some sort of moral code, which the administration feels is sufficient, I believe) and everything to do with bandwidth. That is, we've got FAT pipes, so we can use Napster. (Actually, we've just upgraded this summer, and now everyone's got dedicated 10Mb lines, heehee).

Let's hope the administration doesn't back down on this one. I'll be sorely disappointed.

Re:DeCCS - won't compile

[twdorris]

Is this the same DeCSS code that's been floating around all over the place? If so, has anyone actually tried to compile it? It doesn't. Syntactic errors in several places make me wonder where the *real* code is...

Next: sue the planet (literally)

[sith]

If it weren't for that pesky air stuff, people wouldn't be able to listen to those pirate m-p-threeeeee files that are destroying society. In fact, without air, there wouldn't be a society to destroy.

Problem solved.

Kill everybody, no more napster, metallica wins!!

They should go after SMB shares too.

[Dast]

If they are really worried about it. On the dorm networks where I go to school, so much stuff is available from people setting shares on windows boxen: entire full length movies, more mp3's than I've ever seen, etc etc. Napster is all find and good, but you can find so much more on peoples shares.

But whatever. None of this seems to have anything to do with common sense. Let them kill napster; people will always run OpenNap servers.

Re:They should go after SMB shares too.

[Tower]

At my former school, they firewalled the campus network (no incoming anything...), then relaxed it slightly (ok, incoming HTTP on 80, but no ftp, especially on 80, and alright, ident) and fairly actively scanned any webservers up for material. They did state that they would NOT scan net 'hood (SMB) shares - no that the firewall blocked direct connect and scour from them, they didn't care (scour is, of course different now, but hey).

People will always have local lan content search engines, too - pretty nifty. I can still find everything that is shared on the campus net at my alma mater, I just can't get to it (directly from my cable modem... still have that cs account, though ;-D )

--

Demonstrations

[Elvis Maximus]

I wonder, have there been pro-Napster demonstrations on campuses? When I went to school, people would demonstrate over any damn thing. Certainly stuff much less important than this (er, like sacking the basketball coach?).

Not that I think it would be a particularly intelligent thing to have a demonstration about, but some of the stuff people occupied buildings for at UMass/Amherst was a lot dumber.

-

Here's where DMCA comes in handy . . .

[werdna]

DMCA indemnifies service providers from liability for infringement. While Napster didn't fall into that category, clearly the major universities do. Indeed, a plaintiff suing in such a case is likely to risk sanctions under Federal Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 11.

You can avoid the indemnity by giving notice of particular infringements, but it is unlikely that Metallica can satisfy these requirements without going after particular students -- something they have been desperate to avoid.

Deathmatch!

[don_carnage]

Metallica versus They Might Be Giants! I'd like to see Lars get an accordian over the head!

--

Re:how do you feel about...

[BlackHat]

How did I steal the free source code? Why did I pay for a copy of Redhat? And who am us anyway?

Metallica v UUNET

[runswithd6s]

Monday, September 11, 2000. New York, NY. In an shocking move today, Napster-bane band, Metallica has filed a lawsuit against a major Internet backbone provider, UUNET. Metallica claims, "By providing Universities Internet access across the country, UUNET is contributing to the piracy of Intellectual Property and Copyrighted material." Their stance is that the Internet in and of itself is a direct violation to the ownership and absolute control of ideas, recorded performances, and other copyright protected works." Some speculate that Metallica and their lawyers have been smoking a little too much of the "happy leaf" lately.

An eyewitness reported to us from outside the law offices of Metallica's lawyers. "Maaan. I ain't never seen someone buy so much friggin' weed from me." The witness shook his head in disbelief, eyes glazed over in shock... "I, like, had to wheel it down 'ere in my son's Red Flyer wagon!" He added hysterically, "For one week straight!"

Why the police have not interveaned seemed a mystery, until we made a visit to the Chief of the controlling district around the law offices. To our surprise, the Chief looked like a 80's throwback. "Dude. Metallica, like, rocks! *cough cough*" He smiled stupidly and asked, "Want some weed?"

How far will Metallica go?! One can only speculate!

Re:Proof that Napster != Piracy

[VAXman]

You are systematically doing something wrong. I own 1000+ CD's, some of which I've owned 10+ years, and have damaged 2-3 in that time period (and none in the past 8+ years). Here's a clue: you need to put them in the jewel box, and not set them out on the floor for people to step on.

As for whether making a copy is illegal or not, that is a completely separate issue from Napster which is a distibution method, and a channel for stealing, rather than a means of making archival copies. As we found out in the my.mp3.com case, having somebody else make the copy for you without license, is indeed willful copyright violation (even if you own the CD).

The arrogance of it all ...

[(void*)]

Metallica and Dr. Dre would like to know your position and instructions with respect to access to Napster through your network.

Why should these universities have any kind of position with respect to Napster? These musicians really need to have a larger view of Life, The Universe and Everything.

How about this hypothetical position, Lars. You might not like it, but I think this is one that you would find to be very likely:

The University provides network access to students for the purposes for academic research and learning. Insofar as the frivolous use of the network bandwidth does not exclude other students from academic activities, we will allow it. Insofar as these frivolous lawsuits does not impinge upon the academic freedom of the students, according to our judgement, not yours, we will play nice an pretend that you actually have a case against us. True, the university does not condone copyright violation. True, the university will suspend any student who violates the laws of the country. But your private grieviances have nothing to do with this university and the administration. Please take this up the individual students. To us, napster is just like any other software program - it deserves it's place, as long it by itself violates no law, and does not interfere with our activities. We take no position with regards to the legality of Napster. That is not for us, or you, but the courts to decide.

Re:It'd have been better if Napster had never exis

[jamesbarlow]

There's something that tugs at me, deep down inside, and tells me that you're on to something.

But it's a lot easier to agree with other arguments, because they say I can download free music. At any rate, I'm buying more albums now; so don't try to prick my conscience with your "designed to facilitate the piracy of copyrighted materials" rhetoric.

Besides, asking the kiddies to boycott Napster is a pretty tall order.

~jim

I support Metalliza

[avail]

I think the whole Napster debate is pretty funny. Everyone thinks that becuase the internet exists, property rights no longer exist, and the artist is not entitled to control of their work. Being a musician myself, I find it rather offensive that people assume that I have to relinquish control of my music, and how it's distributed, to any idiot with a new idea on how that work can be mass-replicated to everyone. Don't get me wrong, MP3 and online delivery of content is a GREAT evolution, and will eventually benefit the ARTISTS greatly. It will allow for lower consumer prices through lower distrobution costs, and allow more bands to gain easier exposure of their work on their own terms. People assume though that recond companies are all bad. But the fact of the matter is that record companies can do a lot for a band on the rise. With much more substantial moneies than the bands many have, a record label can work to promote a band they believe will succeed. Of course it's to their own benefit to see the band see well, but there is nothing wrong with that. I think efforts like MyMP3 represent the future of online music. If someone could establish an online record store, where I could setup an account with my credit card, etc, and be able to purchase the right to access an album online. Have the media and player work through a public key encryption scheme (so my purchases cannot be played by others without my consent) and make possible the ability for me to make CD "hardcopies" of this music (like an audio ISO file or something that I can burn to CD). But Napster has no real moral ground to stand on. What the looters and rotters call "Sharing" the producers and artists call "Theft". Everybody applaunds Fred Durst for making a stand for Napster, but how much do you think he's getting paid to make that stand? I wonder if Fred's message would change if their new album sold only 500,000 copies becuase everyone could get it for free over the internet? Like Lars to eloquently stated on the MTV Video awards, sharing is only fun when it's not your stuff.

documents on reserve

[kootch]

"Noting that the 11 universities are among the best in the world, he added: "They ought to seriously address this issue of intellectual property. They certainly aren't allowing students to copy books in the university library."

Yes, they do. I went to a small liberal art school that when a book was rare or very expensive, the professor would put a few copies of the book on reserve in the library. What this meant was that the student could check the book out for only 2 hrs at a time and it couldn't leave the library. What many students were encouraged to do was to make photocopies of the pages that they needed to read so that they could take the copies outside of the library, highlight and make notations, etc. (also considered fair use). They weren't reselling these photocopies, but were using the copies because of the restrictive properties of the original (out of print, extremely expensive, etc.)

Doesn't this refute Mr. King's argument?

Isn't paying $18 for a cd a restrictive property of the music industry?

And please don't say that the mp3 version of a song is just as good as the original, we all know that's not true.

Excuse me,excuse me may i have your attention

[Puddin]

I am just sitting here wondering, wondering if you are suppose to add 'Dr.' to your name if well, yoru not a doctor in anything.. is Dr.Dre a doctor and i am not aware of it? can i add Dr. to my name . just because I feel like it? Dr.Ben not really a dr. in anything lets address the real issues here folks.. Mr. dre is not really a doctor but he pretends to be.. i think that may be illegal.. but not really knowing i don't know dr.ben

Re:who rocks the house?

[jcroft]

Here's a recap on the Napster-related things that went down at the VMAs:

For the record, Metallica wasn't there...only Lars.

In the pre-game show (yes, I know it's not a game, but doesn't it sound more fun that way?), Lars was interviewed by one of the MTV boobs (seems like it was Chris Connely, but I could be wrong). Said interviewer asked him about the Napster case and Lars said that he was trying to not thing about it much tonight. The interviewer pressed him for some comment (he may as well have said, "Look, Lars. I'm going to lose my job if I don't get you to speak about this. After all, it is pretty much the only reason you're still a celeb, right?"), and Lars said something like, "Well...yeah, it's an issue. With the MP3.com ruling that just went down yesterday, we're felling mroe and more confident." That's not an exact quote, mind you.

About half-way into the Big Show (that's MTV's creative team at work), MTV teen idol Carson Daly brought out Shawn Fanning (creator of Napster) to help him introduce Britney for her performace. Shawn came out sporting a Metallica t-shirt. MTV editors cut to Lars in the audience, who rolled his eyes, and then acted as if he was asleep while Shawn spoke. Inteligent display, Lars. Way to go. Carson then proceded to display his journalistic observation talents by commenting, "Nice shirt." Shawn, in a quip that was funny, but clearly planned, said something to the effect of "Oh, thanks. It's not mine...a friend is sharing it with me." Some laughs ensued, but I think most of the audience missed the joke. Shawn then followed-up: "I'm thinking of getting my own, though." Carson made some comment about how they should get on with the introduction, and Fanning replied that "the sooner I can get off this stage, the better." Whatever the hell that means. Following this, Britney got naked.

A while later, there was a somewhat anti-napster skit in which Shawn Wayans acted (I'm using this term very liberally here)as if he was a Napster-using, college-student Metallica fan. Lars comes in, gives him the definiton of sharing (by picking up his coke, drinking it, and then informing him that he's "sharing 10 years of groupies with him"), starts slapping Napster-logo stickers on everthing in sight, and calling in his roadies to take all of the things he plans to "share." Final tag line: "Sharing: It's only fun when it's not your stuff." All in all, an entirely unfunny display (this, by the way, was common with anything that involved the night's hosts).

Finally, Lars came on stage to introduce Blink 182 for their closing performance, and there were unquestionably boos to be heard form the audience. There was plenty of cheers as well, though. I wouldn't say that Lars was treated in any absolutly convincing manner that "shows public opinion." He made some (unfunny) joke about how Metallica wasn't available to perform, so they had to settle for Blink. Blink then brings on shitloads of midgets for it's rendention of "All the SMALL Things." Get it? See what they did there? "Small Things"...Midgets...Get it?

Good Lord, why do I continue to watch this network?


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Jeff Croft
http://jeffcroft.com
http://industrystandard.org
http://newbeetle.org