Slashdot Mirror
Dog Bites Website
In early March my eleventh book A Dog Year; Twelve Months, Four Dogs and Me was published by Random House/Villard. For several months I've been working on a bottom-up, Net-based marketing program that permits me to push my own book in my own way, rather than rely on big publishing or big media. That led me to the banner ad on this site a lot of you have seen and e-mailed me about. So why am I buying a banner ad, on Slashdot of all places, to tout my new book about a year with four dogs? It's a chance for me to tick off the yowling hordes, which is always fun. Some will shriek that a dog saga has little to do with open source, technology or selling things on the Net. But it does, and I'm happy -- eager, even -- to explain why.
I do most of my hyping for A Dog Year in the expected places -- in media interviews and on various dog-related sites, mailing lists and forums.
My reason for advertising here, too, is that I believe the Net offers the best place for individual entrepreneurs of all kinds -- writers, game creators, artists, musicians, software designers -- to skirt conventional costs, limitations and marketing practices and find their own audiences. To me, that's a big part of the "open" in open source. Younger people raised on the Net don't pay nearly as much attention to mainstream media as their elders, so we have to reach them where they are. The good news is that we can.
In fact, Net communications themselves have become increasingly segmented and targeted. Much has become subterranean, centered on mailing lists, IM and other limited-entry venues. In the weeks before my book's publication, I concentrated on these grass-roots venues, contacting websites, subscribing to mailing lists, e-mailing excerpts of my book to people who were interested. People on special interests lists and chat rooms don't mind being pitched on subjects they're interested in. They don't consider it spam. What they hate is being bombarded with messages for things they don't care about, which is what traditional media does. Besides which, I can't afford to take an ad out in Time magazine or on the ABC Evening News.
Elsewhere, individual entrepreneurs and creators find it more and more difficult to survive. The megacorporations who've taken over much of culture and media are primarily interested in best-selling mega-products -- Britney Spears, John Grisham -- not idiosyncratic ones like mine. They have a point, too. My last book found its own audience, or rather its audience found it. It did all right, but didn't sell much beyond it's core audience. To successfully market a book like Running To The Mountain or A Dog Year (at least in the conventional way) could cost more money than my publisher expects to earn. And interesting, I believe the Running To The Mountain excerpt that ran on Slashdot sold more books than a subsequent appearance on the Oprah Winfrey show.
The Net, at least in theory, can bypass that stalemate and create radical new opportunities for artists of all kinds. So I don't mind paying for my own ad. I think it has worked.
Individuals are under attack all across our culture, from the likes of Microsoft and Wal-Mart and Sony to publishing conglomerates. The Net can be a way out for people like me (us), whether we're telling the story of our dogs or coming up with new software. What's why I bought a banner on Slashdot. If it works, it could sell some books, sure. I have no apologies to make for that. But it could also help demonstrate to writers and other people struggling to survive in a mass-market world that the Open Source idea is only fractionally about software. It's about individualism, free expression, and a culture open to us all.
JohnKatz is lame!
-=The Dude=-
Plugging it again here on SlashDot can't hurt...
Oh, wait a minute...
Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo
-- My Weblog.
I don't mean to be troll-ish, but why is Slashdot posting this blatant advertisement as a news story? Am I missing something?
Gentle corrections are welcomed.
:wq
Hey look, I got two ads on this Slashdot page - one for a Pentium 4-M processor, and one for some crappy book about dogs. I demand a refund. I thought they said no more than one ad per page.
So you bought a Slashdot banner ad, and got to write an article about your product. I know that Microsoft have advertised Visual Studio here, so do you know when we get to see an article by Bill Gates saying how great his product is?
For several months I've (Link to Amazon/something about book) been working on a bottom-up, Net-based marketing program that permits me to push my own book in my own way
"Link to Amazon/something about book"? C'mon, you're a professional writer : please submit stories, not drafts.
There's nothing I enjoy more than a soak in the bath with a good book.. but if you think I'm gonna balance a $1500 laptop on the edge of the bath to read, forget it!
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
Well, that pretty much explains his entire slashdot career, doesn't it.
Jon Katz. Mega-troll.
Best Slashdot Co
Does anyone else think it is a perversion of the purpose of slashdot (that being to provide news and stories nerds will care about) for JohnKatz to try and pimp his book to us, the guaranteed massive readership of the site? Is this not an abuse of power on par with a newscaster interrupting a story about the middle east to remind us how he has decided to sell us his latest book of total drivel?
Fie JohnKatz. You have offended my honor, and I challenge you to a duel.
-=The Dude=-
This author has truly created a bastardization of terms. Unless he's planning to release his book under a license similar to GNU (Which I'm sure his publisher won't let him do), it has nothing whatsoever to do with open source...
Open source is about writing a program and giving out the code so others can learn from it/improve it.
Banner ads are... Ads. Internet advertising != open source.
Oh, I can't help quoting you because everything that you said rings true
I wish Jon Katz well with his book. Dog lovers are all right in my book. But that doesn't mean I condone using the word "open" in this context. All marketting is "open", almost by definition. If "open" is a valid adjective to use, then there must be something in opposition like "closed marketting". Does it exist? Hah. If a tree isn't cut down in a forest to turn into four-color brochures, does the tree still exist?
Yes, I'm sure the secret plans of the big conglomerates are locked away somewhere, but marketting is all about spreading your message. I don't see what's new or "open" here. He's right that mailing lists and weblogs are new tools, but word-of-mouth has always been with us. If he wants to hype the book, he should just talk about the book, not the marketing campaign.
e-mailing excerpts of my book to people who were interested
A-ha! Spam!
More like "from the my-book-isn't-selling-so-well-and-this-banner-ad-I -paid-for-isn't-helping-either-so-I'll-post-a-full -length-ad-for-free-on-Slashdot-disguised-as-a-rea l-news-story" dept."
There is no depth that Katz won't sink to.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
Even if you (JonKatz) bought a banner on Slashdot, you (JonKatz) know very well that you're getting more publicity for your book by writing this article. This article could have been summarized by just saying "Please take a look at my books, I want you to buy them."
I'm not one of those people who get worked up when Taco et al reviews some product and people complain that it's some sort of advertisement.
But this is a little much.
Is there a story here? I'm actually kind of curious to hear if Taco approves of this blatant use of the web site to advertise Katz' book for free. Did Katz get permission before posting this "story"?
Even if everyone is on board, I find this really, really, really classless.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
One that is 224 pages long but when you're reading it, it seems like 1,568...
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Katz is on the right track. He can feel how the internet is a different ballgame entirely when it comes to marketing, but he's not quite sure how. Or why. Or what.
Read the Cluetrain Manifesto.
What they hate is being bombarded with messages for things they don't care about, which is what traditional media does
Somehow, advertising for a book about dogs on slashdot sounds like advertising to people who don't care. I applause you for embrasing the Internet as an advertiseral tool, but I ask that you use a more targeted approach like Google Adwords.
I for one, don't care about dogs. You may want to check with the people at www.slashdog.net.
He's missing the tags. Maybe his book sales aren't doing too well. That's pretty low....
Just checking.
Slashdot has sunk to an all time low. This is pathetic, it's blatantly obvious this entire article was an advertisement for jonkatz' book, disguised as some rant about media advertising. And you guys are trying to get people to subscribe?!?! Mod me down, I don't care, someone has to say it.
For someone so interested in getting his book to earn him money, you would think that he would link to B&N or someone who isn't pushing the sale of used books over new ones. As far as anything being 'Open' about amazon, well that's another story.
...whenever I create a book or website, you'll give me full coverage on Slashdot?
Oh wait, you won't?
Jeez, when you said that Slashdot was going to be ad-supported, I didn't think you could have meant THIS. =P
Why Couldnt the article be called Dog Bites Katz...
"All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
Ed Yourdon has written two books and as he was writing/editing them he posted the chapters on his web site. Then, when the book was done he took the contents down.
As for novel individual marketing strategies, I would have to agree that more people should individually create and market materials thereby disintermediate the big greedy corporations who will ultimately deprive us of our fair use rights.
Jim Norton Rules.
I saw the banner advertising the book yesterday, and actually clicked-thru to Amazon out of curiousity. It actually got good user-reviews. But, it's not my kind of book.
However, with this blantant advertorial for the book, I think it showed gross bad judgement by Katz, and by other slashdot editors for letting it happen.
I'm pretty tolerant. But now, thanks to slashdot preferences, I will never see a Katz-authored story again.
Bad slashdot.
Software Wars
if Katz's book is making money, why does he have to spam Slashdot to try and sell a few more copies. Or could it be that he just can't construct a coherent sentence? Let's hope his book had a more competent editor than some here, hey
So is /. going to replace Oprah as the new way to get book sales? Seems to be working for this dog book thing as it's in there at 27 in the Amazon sales rankings at the moment.
What a truely good choice of icon.
The journalist hat icon depicts some of the values of journalism : Professionalism, Integrity, err... none of which are actually present in this story. Of course, this is the web, so if we can accept Spam, I guess we'll accept this too.
Some will shriek that a dog saga has little to do with open source, technology or selling things on the Net. Of course, if he had spent a year with four Aibos, it would be a completely different story.
Just what the hell does Katz contribute here anyways? I can't remember the last time that I actually read something insightful in any of his stories, and now he gets to just plain submit a blatant advertising story for his book? I'm just curious as to what arrangements JK has with /. and what the /. powers that be envision as Katz' role here. I mean really what does this story have to do with Slashdot? I could see if his was a valuable contributor that Slashdot just couldn't do without, but this guy just spews out a bunch of crap and then gets to advertise in the guise of a new story?
I'm not usually one to rant like that, but really...
Does slashdot run ads? Oh, there's a banner ad on this page. I must spend way to much time on the web, I don't run filtering software, my brain filters banner ads for me.
Some will shriek that a dog saga has little to do with open source, technology or selling things on the Net
Have you never heard of Kerberos???
I know, I should have done this a long time ago, but this JonKatz adverticle is over the top. Note to JonKatz: I ain't buying your crappy book either!
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
A bit offtopic, but more entertaining than this story...
what do you call a tyre made out of 365 condoms?
a goodyear...
... but if I see one more of these "newsvertizements" from JK, I'm removing his posts out of the front page.
That is, since I can't actually mod the "story" down...
So lets get this straight all those words to say
"I need the book to sell, so I decided to advertise it"
Well Duh! At least dress up the advertisement is something resembling English or the standard "developers and dogs work well together, as I say in my book (link to the one click wizards at Amazon)...." the art of advertising is to make someone want the product, so a well thought out article on dogs and developers might have stood something of a chance.
An article on "I used the worlds least effective advertising medium because I'm desperate" is a lot less effective.
But the best dog for the developer is the newfie anyway. Needs bugger all exercise, its big and therefore impresses your geek friends, its cuddly do women like it, and can be used to pull things that your too weak to handle Newfies are also ace with kids.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
there has been a lot written about the demise of american literature due primarily to the congolermization of publishing house and the need to improve profit margins. Prior to the 70's, publishing houses kept a stable of marginal writers (marginal in popularity, not talent) published because of the potential of having a James Joyce, Hemmingway, or Dillard in their midst that just needed time to develop.
Out of that stable came a number of authors who while successful, were not mega hits. And those authors were part of a rich publishing landscape.
The big publishing houses are really only interested in best sellers today and so the authors that feed stories along the lines of Grisham, King, Baldacci, have a better chance of getting published while possibly more creative authors languish.
Will the 'Net level the playing field? Probably not because, I think, most people still like to read paper books and face it, there is still a large majority of people who don't sleep with thier computers.
I just hope that I am wrong and that modern authors, artists, and small business people can use the low barrior to entry the internet provides and become successful.
Well, here's my example of open source writing. Bruce Eckel's books are available for free on the internet, including books he isn't finished with, yet.
He also makes a living on selling them (hell, I own two of them).
My question for Mr.Katz:
Where can I find a copy of your book online (for free)?
PS - yeah, I broke the Blackout. Sue me.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Few books sell well, and even fewer (mine, for example) make money.
Plug away Mr. Katz...
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
What I got from the story, besides the very obvious ad, is how non this non mainstream (slightly poor) author is trying to sell his work. This should affect all of us, because none of us are MS, we do not have the power to be able to make a program, call it something jazzy then bombard the public with flashy ads on TV, with two page ads on newspapers, with release parties with live bands and lasers. Somehow I think Mr. JK was trying to relate his struggle to sell his book to the struggle that open source is enduring.
Or I just may be an idealist and do not believe this would just be a page long ad.
dam(adiue)
Useless sig.
Can content like books be successfully "open-marketed" on the Net?
Yes.
Too bad Katz didn't.
Find free books.
Anyway, can I be the first to say that I like Katz's articles here. I find it hysterically funny every time his stories are posted and a proportion of the slashdot community starts to froth at the mouth at... well at pretty much anything he might say. And his comment in this story about about "tick[ing] off the yowling hordes" is just great! More power to you, Jon.
Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
So I'm listening on WAMU to this interesting radio talk show about an author who's plugging his book on border collies. And all sorts of people are calling in about their border collie experiences. It's really an interesting show actually, lots of discussion about dog intelligence, the need to "work" your border collie so it doesn't go insane, etc. etc. I really liked it, and thought: hey, that'd be a neat book to read. Then at the end of the show, the announcer says that the author is Jon Katz (or a pronounciation thereof). I just about crash my car -- no, it *couldn't* be...the bane of Slashdot? But he sounded so reasonable and interesting!
Maybe Jon should shift from the writing biz to the radio biz...
So this thinly disguised advert for your book about dogs is right on topic for this special interest list? How can you tell us about your "bottom-up, Net-based marekting experiment" when as part of it you're spamming this list to sell your book just like those guys that you're bashing in the quote above?
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Its not very ethical to use a forum with a specific target to sell something that you yourself have produced that isn't in alignment with the forum?
In financial terms there are regulations to stop you making money from saying something about your companies stock and then buying loads of it when it bottoms.
In business terms, I just don't think I (or others) would take you seriously for something like this...sure you're not a consultant in a previous life?
BTW, all women reading, I have the best ass in the world and i'm currently working on a bottom-up online marketing scheme...be sure to check my porn site soon!
I wish you all the luck in the world with selling your book, and am willing to take your post here at face value, i.e. an honest discussion point rather than a shameless plug:-) But of course the results the editor of a site gets with an ad for a completely off-topic book has almost no correlation to what say, Johnny Doe, might get for his book "Tiny Terror, The Ferocious Pekinese".
"My reason for advertising here, too, is that I believe the Net offers the best place for individual entrepreneurs of all kinds -- writers, game creators, artists, musicians, software designers -- to skirt conventional costs, limitations and marketing practices and find their own audiences. To me, that's a big part of the "open" in open source. Younger people raised on the Net don't pay nearly as much attention to mainstream media as their elders, so we have to reach them where they are. The good news is that we can. "
----
Advertising on the internet is one thing, but advtising at the place at which you work, a place where you have a distinct advantage over nearly everyone else on the internet, is totally out of line. There are plenty of places to talk about your totally unrelated work (Remember - News for nerds, stuff that matters) besides Slashdot. Here's a thought, none of us really care about your book. Why would you even attempt to market to an audience that doesn't care? Thats like advertising feminine products during Sesame Street. It's just plain dumb and it's not going to help you get any customers (only people whining about how feminine products are being advertised during Sesame Street - catch my drift?).
-kwishot
1. Do as everyone else, and SPAM a few thousend people.
2. Post it on Slashdot.. Same effect as nr 1.
Im John Katz. I wrote a book. I have been on TV. Please, buy my book, I need the money. Really there isn't much difference between dogs and linux. Please, buy my book.
Oh boo fucking hoo, Jon can't sell his shitty book. Who the hell allowed this guy to use valuable /. frontpage space to flog his shitty book? Leave it Katz to shoehorn the plight of a warehouse full of dusty printed toilet paper into a provacative look at the exciting world of online book publishing. You're no better than those UFO cranks that sell books on their free personal webspace.
/. my bad ;)
Maybe you should try marketing to people that would actually read your book, Jon. Nobody here cares that about the fact you haven't whipped up a storm in the literary world. Because you are the Online World's Shittiest Writer, bar none.
Next time try hitting on the website for Egomaniacal and Uninformed Blowhards.
oh wait.. that is
It's one thing to have banner and box ads. It's quite another to have *article* ads for someone's book. ug.
- "$$$ Make money fast $$$" ...
- "Toner at half price !"
- "Enlarge your Penis !"
- "I met four 18 years old girls living in the same room with a web cam"
- "Email advertising WORKS!"
-
If you want to make your book open, give it away on the Internet. It will even increase your book sales (must read).
for your amusement
I don't know him, but gosh... Katz sure does have a way of shameless self promotion. Don't let him fool you with the philosophical hoopla... That can only lead to more publicity, good or bad... and as they say in marketing... any publicity is good publicity. For example, turning the issue into an argument, causing trolls to flame war about it... only servers to have people think about his book, and dwell on the issue... in the end only causing more attention to be paid to his book.
Actually I think its a smart play, but i would never fall for such a sinker... I'm embarrassed I had to sink so low to even post a remark. I hope I didn't dignify Katz tactic anymore with my words, so I'll just shush, and bailout. Posting anonymous to preserve my precious karma, but if you want to mod me up anyways... feel free!
Recently I saw Monsoon Wedding (which I can't recomment highly enough if you want a fun, totally kick-butt cool movie to see, which I've never seen advertised on the TV, meanwhile a dog (Scorpion King) is plugged everywhere. So seeking better entertainment is effectively taking the risk to check out different movies, books, music, and even trod the less beaten path (which we did on Sunday and it was loaded with poison oak, but pretty cool otherwise.)
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I never read a news paper and I rarely watch the news on TV.
I get small amounts of news off the radio but the majority from the net (bbc/yahoo etc).
And although I am not interested in a book about dogs I think the guy has a point, why use a marekting medium that does not target the demographic you want (presuming he wants to target geeks and the mid youth market).
ERR 411[Max number of witty sigs reached]
Brilliant thinking editors!!
I can see it now
Taco - man, the comments really are down
Hemo - yep, the advertisers are noticing too
Katz - dribble, whiffle, waffle, snarf
Taco - Hey, Jon - feel free to plug your latest book
Katx - coooool
Hemo - he he, nice one
Taco - [leans back on chair], Yep - no one will be able to help themselves, it'll be a 700+ article in 20 minutes flat.
You believe in Open Source. You believe in breaking with tradition because it's not working for you and others (ignoring for a second that perhaps it SHOULDN'T work because the market doesn't really want it). Yet you don't "open source" (i.e., allow free distribution but ask for tips or some such) your own books? Pfft. If you're going to talk the talk, then you should at least walk the walk.
... what exactly?
Anyways, I fail to see how you are qualititively different than the traditional publishers' means of promotion and sales. Sure, you are relying on the Net, by and large, to market your book(s) but I assert that that has more to do with your relations with this particular community and that, except for that relationship, the publishers are no less likely to experiment with banner ads and such than you would otherwise be. It's not as if marketing stuff online is exactly a massive departure from their business model. There's no revolution here, you just have a nominally different way of marketing your wares.
I suppose what I object to is your arrogance. You assume the publishers (not to mention the software industry and numerous other established entities) are stupid for being "traditional", yet you, yourself, barely manage to eak out an existance, despite the fact that you have a couple things here (e.g., slashdot) going for you that few can repeat. Nor can you point to substantial success stories. Yet you expect
Might there be a better way that some crafty entreprenuer can discover? Sure. Might the "traditional" way be better? Quite likely. The simple fact of the matter, though, is that it's unproven. Until someone can really show a workable, never mind superior, way, it's unrealistic, unreasonable, and just plain stupid to expect publishers to drop everything to chase pennies on the net.
When they are a minor Net celebrity, at least around these parts. Let's see a regular Joe, not known for inciting anything, would fare in a net marketing campaign. Jon's status at Slashdot is ebough to negate any good data that could come out of his "study".
That, and the fact that Jon can publish an "article" about his "study" and plug the very book he is "studying" the "effects" of...
"Goodness, how did you people live long enough to invent tools?" -Hobbes (the tiger, not the philosopher)
Go Ape!
Due to opinions like this, I feel the net has become LESS of a creative medium to express thoughts, socialize and invent. All of the sudden the net seems to be one huge marketing campaign. Ads have been plastered everywhere. I miss the days when the worst it could be was a popup. Now we have animations covering the content of the site, the net surfer actually has to wait for the annoying lizard to finish crawling across the screen, or the damn car to stop driving around, becuase they can actually view the content. okay, sorry about the rant.
I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
Katz, if you're really interested in reaching the widest possible audience, you might want to consider switching publishers.
The Baen Free Library has a wide selection of books you download off the net for free -- But before you ask, "well, how do I get paid?", you may want to look at the statistics they've posted for free downloads encouraging sales. I know I'd be alot more comfortable purchasing a book about a year w/ dogs if I could read part of it first.
Just my two drachma.
You don't have to apologize for buying a banner ad with money. You have to apologize for posting an ad with your moderator priviledges, disguised as Yet Another free expression anti-corporation blah blah article.
But it could also help demonstrate to writers and other people struggling to survive in a mass-market world that the Open Source idea is only fractionally about software. It's about individualism, free expression, and a culture open to us all.
Holy shit, I take it all back. You're not just advertising your book: you're a hero and a role model to us all. I can't believe you tried to tie in buying a banner ad into support of the open source movement.
Hey, ./ subscribers, how happy are you that you wasted a page hit on Katz's book promotion?
I demand that a slashdot frontpage poll be taken to determine if Katz's "story" is legitimate Slashdot content (either News or Stuff That Matters) or merely an advertisement for his book.
I don't subscribe to Slashdot yet, but this type of "story" persuades me not to. Ever.
Is there a Katz bites website? Cause advertising his book on Slashdot is pretty low.... Maybe it would be a hare more aceptable if one of the other editors had posted it, but it would still reek of self promotion. Who let the katz out? I don't know, but they'd better reign him back in! Snoogans.
Love,
Jay and Silent Bob
Well, you showed them!
Go ahead, market your book as much as possible! Whatever it takes to make a sale, I say!
In the publishing world, only a few names are a guarantee of a profit. Writing for the rest of us is not an exercise in capitalism; It is not a vocation that guarantees fame or fortune. We write because we can. Not everyone does it well and there is far more dreck than literary treasure to be found not only in the local bookstore but right here on our beloved 'net.
Do subscribers see these advertisement-stories?
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Putting aside Katzbashing, he has a point: the Internet is giving hobbyists and individual enterprenuers new avenues for getting their work out there.
Writing is one of the best examples, even better than musicians or possibly game creators, since the web is at heart a text based medium. The traditional publishing method (submissions, rejections, contracts, printings, promotions, sales, yadda) is laborious and iffy... online, you just post your webpage and you're done. Advertising to subcultural niches that would find your work interesting can be very effective; success/popularity can be found in modest amounts while completely bypassing the traditional channels.
But something Katz isn't seeing here is that online grassroots success != bigtime financial success. If someone wants to make it as a mainstream author on the NYT best seller list, putting your work on a website and grassrooting is not going to do that. Selling anything online, particularly with the 'I Want It Free' mentality, is difficult at best. If you're fine with 'smalltime' work or hobbyist tinkering, though, that's probably okay for you (assuming you can afford the bandwidth to make it happen; webcomic authors have this problem in spades).
Case example, which I swear is not a plug. Myself, everything I've ever written is out there for free. The majority of it fits into the niche subculture of 'anime fanfiction', so that works perfectly; I couldn't make money off it anyway, and grassroots hype and advertising makes perfect sense. Plus, using the audience I build from that, I can branch off into things like my original works which I CAN market. But being the next John Grisham by my internet doodlings? No. Even if I was at that level of writing quality (frankly, I think I am...) I know this is not the road to that goal.
So yes, new doors are opened by the potential of online promotion and distribution. But they're not the SAME doors you could open going the usual way.
so, will this also be barred from my view if i subscribe, like the rest of the new-sized ads? Or is this considered to be a real story?
While I applaude JKatz for sticking to his guns (he never disappoints in pissing people off), I still have to wonder the point of this story. Granted, /. does book reviews, posts stories that are shameless plugs for products, and even occasionally plays host for rampant, undisguised commercialism, but why this drivel? In some twisted, sadomasochistic parallel universe, yes, this would fit, but not here! A plug about a book that has no connection to /. except for the author. This guy must simply enjoy the attention. Forget the 'Great /. Blackout', I propose a complete and total boycott of all future JKatz stories/postings. Who is with me?
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
The real issue here is not "is this an ad" or "can books be promoted on the net" or even "I don't like dogs", but this:
" Can books be 'net' books
Had Jon mentioned profitability or actual sales or given some demonstration of the idea that his alternative marketing and/or distribution means are actually working, it would be news.
The closest he comes is here: "... I believe the Running To The Mountain excerpt that ran on Slashdot sold more books than a subsequent appearance on the Oprah Winfrey show.
No proof, no studies whatsoever, not even a clear and certain anecdote.
It's EASY to get proof - sell the books under different catalog numbers, and enter the catalog numbers on the invoice(s). Or, use an 800 number, and use different 800 numbers for different adv. media, and compare the phone bills.
As it sits now, it's like listening to the life story of a homeless person - not likely to get you anywhere meaningful.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
a big disappointment, April 14, 2002
Reviewer: A reader from Washington, DC
I really admired Jon Katz's "Geeks" and I'm deeply interested in dogs, so I pounced on this book, but I'm sorry to say I found it very disappointing. Katz writes well, and some parts of the book are touching, especially his accounts of putting his labs down, but on the whole the book is grating in its misperceptions and obtuseness about canine behavior. It also seemed to be reaching for significance and spiritual insight in a self-conscious way that is occasionally embarrassing. Worst of all, much of it is just not interesting. There are so many insightful and genuinely touching books about the human-canine relationship that this one just seems unnecessary. I hope Katz gets back on stride with his next book.
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
Good for Jon, he actually put down more than 39 words. I have a number of friends who also write, one of which I was just checking up on, but won't mention here. Neither is exactly Steven King, but no less deserving of a shot, particularly since those who check out Jon Katz stories fall into one of two categories:
Troll
Actually read the feature article and give it some thought
Two places to work on: book stores and radio. Hitting the chains and the larger indies with readings and signings will spread the word. If your book has any mass-market appeal, it'll soon be spread by word of mouth and you'll see your numbers pick up for the trade paperbacks. And remember, work the audience! Too many authors give crappy readings. Too many authors don't hustle enough to sell their own books. That's why publishing houses have gotten as big as they have. They do the work and writers are lazy. As for radio, the local NPR affiliates are your best friend if you're a writer. Try to schedule interviews/flack runs to coincide with your stops in the book tour. Try not to do shows with listener call-ins: it dilutes your message and purpose. Aim for 1 on 1 interview and really engage the interviewer. Be fore-armed with some bon mots and anecdotes from your work. But as a seasoned author, I'm sure you're aware of all I'm telling you.
If you want to use the 'net, the obvious and cost effective marketing would be Google. Further, the one thing Slashdot approaches with any real true editorialship is book reviews. Perhaps someone could give it a looksie.
How can you not like a book about Golden Retrievers and Border Collies? Why kind of twisted, hate-filled bags of dirt haunt ./?
I mean, it's not like Jon's little advert blotted out crucial news like another 2.4.19 Rev xxx Linux kernel patch.
---
Yeah, and you aren't much of a writer either.
Few books sell well, and even fewer (mine, for example) make money.
Huh. No kidding. I mean, with such a devout following on
[S A R C A S M]
I'm a 2000 man.
This must be a frequent request for Jon Katz stories:
Can I get a "Jon Katz basher" filter please? The quality of the highly rated comments to his postings are always crap, which is hardly the case with other not so well received stories.
Few books sell well, and even fewer (mine, for example) make money
If this is true, then it should be telling you to find a new fscking job.
Speaking about online marketing, one thing that strikes me is how the market for concert tickets is still dominated by Ticketmasters and their huge 20%-ish charges (it is not uncommon to be charged $6 for a $30 ticket).
It seems to me that the cost of setting up an online ticket sales service are negligible compared to that markup. Why aren't venues, even small venues, selling tickets on their own? There are even open source systems available now (I'm thinking about postnuke modules but I'm sure there's something else. I find it amazing that nobody (actually, very few) is trying to cash in to the opportunities, and that the internet revolution has not affected a bit TicketMasters' monopoly.
Welcome to John Katz's mind. When he watches/buys/uses/hears something, he feels inclined to somehow connect it, by thinking out loud in Slashdot editorials, to the issues he cares about. Unfortunately, it always reads like someone taking bong hits and trying to get philisophical. His brain misfires a little here and there, and he ends up connecting banner ads to open source, globalism to lunar cycles, etc. Just when he's on to something, he tries to write it out and ends up way off course.
... as watching an infomercial.
It's not an half hour long commercial, It's an infomericial!
Ohh i get it, so i guess you might call something like this infospam?
Help! I've fallen in a karma hole and I can't get up!
Unfortunately, this whole article has a major flaw. Jon Katz isn't "joe author", a general unknown author, on /. He is, in essence, part of the publisher.
/. really biases things. It's like saying "hey, if you help create a website that reaches 20 million people, you too can be a simple, ordinary starting author and sell your book via the web."
:)
That he has access to
Next news flash: Oprah's humble novel career gets a boost when, by some mad coincidence, she gets mentioned on Oprah's Book Club. And this could happen to you!!! [after the heat death of the universe].
The real lesson here is that, in order to sell via the net, you have do the people-networking thing-- get in good with a central site or two, so you can then have access to make a plug.
Which is no different from 'get in good with a print publisher, so they'll push your book'. But it is easier for techies like us to get in with a website, than to get in with a print corporation.
So there are lessons here, but probably not the ones Jon intended
A.
Free publicity is popular and overused, but isn't it about time more people realized that popularity isn't always good? Sure, the man gets mindshare, but to what end?
"Katzbashing." The man apparantly overshadows many things he is trying to say. Unless his goal was to make us all talk about him, in which case his article is even worse than just an advertisement for his book.
Mm, yes, I'd love to try to sell things based on people's dislike for me.
"Hello, sir, would you like to see my book about the global ec--"
"Oh my god, it's Katz!" *slam*
"Well, at least he knew my name."
I'd rather be anonymous.
This now concludes our broadcast day.
Shouldn't it be, "The truth about Katz and dogs"?
*groan*
In Soviet Russia, hot grits put YOU down THEIR pants.
I expected this reponse, of course, but you are missing something..like the point of the site. If the Net and the Web can be used to communicate content like books apart from entities like big publishes, big media (big software manufacturers), that's very newsworthy. I want other people who create content to understand how this could work.So I think you are missing something. There are many better venues to promote a dog book than on Slashdot, but I really feel strongly that writers, artists, individuals, etc. should understand that mailing lists, blogs, etc. are a huge opportunity to bypass the big company/big media marketing systems. To me, that's a big OS idea, the reason I came to write for the site in the first. It's essential that this message get out, I think,as so many music writers, book writers, etc., are not able to deal with big marketing realities.
jonkatz@slashdot.org
He means open in terms of access. The net allows people other than Large corporations with big pockets to promote a product.
Or, in other words, a means to prevent them from dictating what we see, and hear, and read.
I'd call that open!
I've never been one of the Jon Katz haters, but this is too much. There is only the flimsiest of justifications for Mr Katz posting what amounts to a big editorial plug for his book, which is on a subject totally unconnected with Slashdot.
You may hate it when people say "this isn't news for nerds", but this really isn't. Please don't open yourselves up to accusations of abusing Slashdot like this.
That's it - the No Jon Katz filter goes on my preferences.
When is Dog Bites Website Part VI coming out?
I'm not much of a salesman, in comfort or skill, but I'm willing to hype my books,
by abusing using your powers as an editor at what purports to be a "news" site, thereby proving to all and sundry that you are no longer even bothering to predend to have a shred of journalistic integrity.
especially given the realities of 21st Century publishing, when you do it yourself or nobody does it.
Really? You mean to tell me that the publishing industry has decided to abandon advertising altogether? Advertisements for the latest Stephen King (RIP) book are taken out by Mr. King himself?
Some people think if you get a book published, you're a big deal and a rich one. If you're Grisham or King, that's true. The reality: Few books sell well, and even fewer (mine, for example) make money Can content like books be successfully "open-marketed" on the Net? I say yes.
I'd attempt to answer that question, except I don't know what the fuck "open-marketed" means.
In early March my eleventh book A Dog Year; Twelve Months, Four Dogs and Me was published by Random House/ Villard. For several months I've been working on a bottom-up, Net-based marketing program that permits me to push my own book in my own way,
Which includes, apparently, writing a "story" which is a barely-concealed advertisement of the book and using your connections to post this advertisement to the front page of a popular site.
rather than rely on big publishing or big media.
Oooh, scary... are they like big tobacco and big oil?
That led me to the banner ad on this site a lot of you have seen and e-mailed me about. So why am I buying a banner ad, on Slashdot of all places, to tout my new book about a year with four dogs?
Because it gives you an excuse to write a much larger advertisement for your book, thinly disguised as a "story" about buying a banner ad?
It's a chance for me to tick off the yowling hordes, which is always fun. Some will shriek that a dog saga has little to do with open source, technology or selling things on the Net.
Well, actually it has nothing to do with any of those things.
But it does, and I'm happy -- eager, even -- to explain why.
I do most of my hyping for A Dog Year in the expected places -- in media interviews and on various dog-related sites, mailing lists and forums.
My reason for advertising here, too, is that I believe the Net offers the best place for individual entrepreneurs of all kinds -- writers, game creators, artists, musicians, software designers -- to skirt conventional costs, limitations and marketing practices
For example, by abusing your powers as an editor of a news site and posting an advertisement for your book. Oh wait, no, this is a legitimate news story about how you bought a banner ad to advertise your book. Right.
and find their own audiences. To me, that's a big part of the "open" in open source. Younger people raised on the Net don't pay nearly as much attention to mainstream media as their elders, so we have to reach them where they are. The good news is that we can.
A big part of the "open" in open source is that now you can advertise on the web?
In fact, Net communications
read: advertisements
themselves have become increasingly segmented and targeted.
Yes, thanks to the ubiquity of "what kind of spam do you want to sign up for" checklists in site and software registration pages
Much has become subterranean, centered on mailing lists, IM and other limited-entry venues. In the weeks before my book's publication, I concentrated on these grass-roots venues, contacting websites, subscribing to mailing lists, e-mailing excerpts of my book to people who were interested.
Spam spam spam spam, spam spam spam spam, lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
People on special interests lists and chat rooms don't mind being pitched on subjects they're interested in. They don't consider it spam.
*cough*bullshit*cough*
What they hate is being bombarded with messages for things they don't care about, which is what traditional media does.
Messages for things they don't care about... You mean like an ad for a dog book an a computer/tech news site?
Besides which, I can't afford to take an ad out in Time magazine or on the ABC Evening News.
Elsewhere, individual entrepreneurs and creators find it more and more difficult to survive. The megacorporations who've taken over much of culture and media
Rand McNally ain't exactly an independant publisher.
are primarily interested in best-selling mega-products -- Britney Spears, Jon Grisham -- not idiosyncratic ones like mine.
Idiosyncratic? Not a best-selling mega-product? What happed to you being one of the few authors whose books made money?
They have a point, too. My last book found its own audience, or rather its audience found it. It did all right, but didn't sell much beyond it's core audience.
Which is it, Jon, do you have a small audience, or are your books some of the few that sell well and make money? Jesus Christ, can't you keep your story straight through an entire article?
To successfully market a book like Running To The Mountain or A Dog Year (at least in the conventional way) could cost more money than my publisher expects to earn.
Technically, I think that would be "unsuccessful marketing"
And interesting, I believe the Running To The Mountain excerpt that ran on Slashdot sold more books than a subsequent appearance on the Oprah Winfrey show.
The Net, at least in theory, can bypass that stalemate and create radical new opportunities for artists of all kinds. So I don't mind paying for my own ad. I think it has worked.
Yes, it's given you an opportunity to right an entire page of this crap to hype your book.
Individuals are under attack all across our culture, from the likes of Microsoft and Wal-Mart and Sony to publishing conglomerates.
Except for Rand McNally, they're quite nice.
The Net can be a way out for people like me (us), whether we're telling the story of our dogs or coming up with new software. What's why I bought a banner on Slashdot.
If you actually bought it. Given the gross abuse of editorial privilage which is this "story", I wouldn't be surprised if no money actually changed hands.
If it works, it could sell some books, sure. I have no apologies to make for that.
How about an apology for this "story", then? Tell me, if I come up with a product and buy a banner ad on Slashdot, do I get to write a front page "story" saying "look at me, I bought a banner ad! Isn't the internet great?"
But it could also help demonstrate to writers and other people struggling to survive in a mass- market world that the Open Source idea is only fractionally about software. It's about individualism, free expression, and a culture open to us all.
Advertising on the internet = individualism and freedom. Advertising on TV or in print = corporatism and oppression. Right. Got it.
One final question - do the subscribers have to deal with this shit too, or did this story get filtered out as an advertisement? If I had subscribed with the promise of eliminating ads and had to see this shit, I'd demand a refund.
"You're just scared like a little white pussy. I'll fuck you till you love me, you faggot!"
I think people are over reacting. The guts of the article is about how in this age of megacorporations do small authors of books or software find a market. Katz then uses his own experience of selling his book as an example. Rather than slam him why not talk about the point. What are some effective ways to market your product using the Internet and competing with corporations. Or are you afraid that then you might have to stop whining about why no one is using or buying your program/book you wrote in your spare time.
Personnaly I was fired up that maybe I could compete and make a decent living without having to work for some major corporation.
Rabi Satter
Jolly good point there chap!
And Kudo's for recognizing!
Actually I ate the Kudo's this morning for breakfast...sorry.
"Just Smile and Nod." --Huck
I'm not usually one to get to outraged by the goings on here, I typically find it more amusing than anything. And sure, piling on JK is good sport now and then, but this drags all of Slashdot down to a new low...
By allowing one of their own to hawk blatantly unrelated crap (and then have the *nerve* to claim that because it's 'net marketing it *is* related), the d00ds who run this site once again have demonstrated the posers that they are. They want to be journalists... they want to be entrepreneurs... they want to be businessmen... all they are is a bunch of amateurs, and we continue to lap it up.
So the standards are immutable (unless one of the insiders needs them not to be). I get it.
No man is an island, but Gary is a city in Indiana.
At least not directly. For some unknown reason, JonKatz has the rights to post his articles directly, without any moderation from CmdrTaco et al. In other words, JonKatz is abusing the privileges he's been given, and it's up to the SlashDot Moderators to review those privileges, in my opinion... (yes, I have a real name, see my website if you think you need it.)
(this is not a
You took a lot of time to post this drivel. Sounds like you give a shit after all, asshole.
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Note: Now that the Great Slashdot Blackout has started, many of you are probably wondering what you can do instead of post relevant comments (remember, no comments from April 21-27!). Well, the answer is to solve this puzzle! Feel free to repost this puzzle as many times as possible so everyone gets a fair chance to play, and if you have moderator points, mod it up so that (again) everyone gets a fair chance to play. The puzzle contest is over when the Slashdot Blackout is over! After the Blackout is over, please, return to your regularly scheduled activities and don't repost the puzzle anymore. Thanks!
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THE CLUES:
Across
1. This band must've been desperate for publicity to give an interview to Slashdot!
5. Crapflooder impersonated well by Silicon Simian.
7. A special treat you earn for Bad Posting.
0A. Sean Kelly's ex-lover and former SlashNET IRCop.
0E. Ew! Between the eyes!
0F. This dog won't mess your carpet, shed fur all over the place, or do much else besides consume batteries.
11. Living proof that you get what you pay for.
12. The soundtrack for the World Wide Web.
14. Disney makes money to destroy free speech on the Internet every time you buy ____ on DVD.
15. Slashcode's overglorified killfile.
17. You were writing FOX about "The Tick" when you should've been writing your congressman about this bill.
18. A very Snotty troll.
1A. This young Afghan loves watching movies and JonKatz on his C64.
1D. The best text editor EVER!
1E. What you say!! If you say it one more time, I'll bludgeon you to death!
1F. These guys gave Linux mono.
25. These shiny discs feed money into a bloated media cartel and stifle fair use rights, but you buy them by the millions anyway.
28. Slashdot's top comment poster and story submitter.
2A. These networks "disrupt" artists' cash flows.
2B. Open Source codeword for amphetamines.
2D. RAM type optimized for Extended Data Output on old Pentiums.
2E. Hillary Rosen knows you're just itching to steal Charley Pride's __.
30. A hack to get a kernel designed only to boot off floppy disks to boot off a hard drive.
31. ___ BREAK HEAD WITH OPEN-SOURCE CD!!!
32. Marketers who resort to this tactic are worse than Hitler and should be tortured and killed.
33. This desktop environment kicks GNOME's ass!
35. Microsoft sold off this Unix, and it's gone downhill ever since.
38. An essential e-mail utility for child pornographers and terrorists.
3B. (0A Down)'s lucky number.
3C. It's not Unix, and it shows.
3D. Preface for 90% of Slashdot comments, and 100% of CmdrTaco's personal ads.
3F. Where non-free software goes on your file system.
41. You better mark all the comments as ____ in metamod unless you want to lose karma.
42. This international standards body, no matter what you may think, does NOT read Slashdot.
44. Head bitch of the RIAA.
46. A primitive chat program superseded by AOL Instant Messenger.
49. An online webzine which demonstrated that online subscriptions don't work to everybody except CmdrTaco.
4B. If you moderate in a way CmdrTaco doesn't like, you earn this special database flag.
4C. vi does a poor job of emulating this standard Unix text editor.
4D. To B or not __ _.
4E. You won't get much use out of this text-recognition technology if all you use your scanner for is scanning your ass.
50. The sound Michael's head makes when he's stuffing it up his rectum.
52. Unique index for a whole LIST of babble.
53. The world's best operating system!
54. Father of Methuselah, or old-school Slashdot troll.
55. You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict this operating system's future.
56. Most geeks sleep through this half of the day.
57. This open-source man was Natalie's first.
58. Carly's mission is to steer this company into the ground.
59. mimbleton's favorite subject prefix.
5A. Chewing this might help your babbling problem.
5C. Programming language named after Lord Byron's daughter.
5F. Dead drummer for CmdrTaco's favorite band, or ridiculous Liberal myth.
61. Every Slashdotter's dream is to get one of these.
62. The Firm that is spelling Armageddon for free speech on The Net.
64. These networks are the beginning of Disorganized Crime.
65. Shitty "bitch band" whose leader likes to bitch about the RIAA.
66. The only Adequacy [adequacy.org] [adequacy.org] editor with a real PhD.
67. I think 7 over 22 is both backwards AND wrong.
68. Mentioning this droid (and others) is what is keeping you from getting laid.
69. Two-letter country code for Oman.
6A. Giving a ____ Necklace involves "coming" on Heidi Wall's bosom.
6B. What people who can't afford Visual Studio use to search text files.
6C. This hacker tool is often used to replace "characters" in "strings".
6D. QueenTaco's maiden name.
6E. The best text editor EVER!
6F. The PDP-11 assembler that thinks it's a programming language.
Down ...
1. Taco thinks that a purchase of his publicly traded company's services is a ___.
2. The self-centered Windows 9x release after 98SE.
3. 3D Tamagotchi game designed by Peter Molyneux.
4. A crippled Photoshop wannabe.
5. Lock your penis bird in a cage to protect it from this text-outputting animal.
6. Russian Geeks in Space.
7. If your karma surpasses 25, you have this and a problem.
8. Luckily, michael was born too late to join THIS party.
9. If this Slashdot section's color scheme doesn't drive you away, Michael's snotty editorial remarks will.
0A. Suffering cerebral palsy didn't stop him from becoming Surprised by Wealth.
0B. The market leader in megahertz lies.
0C. Statement used to declare variables in Visual Basic.
0D. Media cartel dedicated to protecting Britney Spears from dirty hackers.
10. Once the greatest Karma Whore ever, now a suicidal loser seen only on (33 Down).
13. Game console that bankrupted its parent company because of hackers making free games for it.
16. The only Unix understandable by non-geeks.
18. (40 Down) likes his pages ____.
19. Do many eyes make all bugs shallow, or do too many cooks spoil the broth?
1C. Research? Linux? Software? Whatever!
20. The first step towards failure for Linux companies.
21. Every Slashdotter's duty (except those marked with (4B Across)).
22. Apple's stylish new IP theft device.
23. (43 Down)'s employer.
24. A flaky Open-Source knockoff of (38 Across).
26. ESR's birthday present to RMS.
27. This primitive operating system denies any service to its users.
29. Unique index for a particular piece of babble.
2C. A tasty breakfast treat -- down your pants!
2E. You hit this once you get 50 karma points.
2F. This marketing guy troll sure is dumb!
33. This site is decidedly not Slashdot.
34. An easy way to lose all your karma is to offer your account for sale on this popular auction site.
35. Unfortunately, this famous online Nazi's treatment of the Censorware Project [sethf.com] [sethf.com] wasn't just a game.
36. Two-letter country code for the 51st state.
37. A geek's computer is always __.
39. ____, Lover, Aesthete, Programmer. There is no contradiction.
3A. The XP makes it go faster!
3E. The world's worst operating system!
40. The only troll with a freaks list longer than JonKatz'.
41. The OS all the cool people use now that Linux isn't trendy anymore.
43. A top-flight IT consultant who somehow manages to find time in his busy schedule to post to Slashdot.
45. What comes after as(1) and before strip(1) in the C build process.
47. VA Software has the world's worst ___.
48. This Senate bill comes closer to passing every time you go to see Lord of the Rings again.
4A. Legalized child pornography.
4F. What the Greeks went to Delphi for, Geeks go to this state for.
51. The Hellmouth should've eaten you here.
53. This rocker's battle against file-sharing networks won't end until he can Kill 'Em All.
5A. This desktop environment kicks KDE's ass!
5B. This modest and self-effacing troll was one of the first on Slashdot.
5C. You'd have to think different to justify spending money on this company's overpriced products.
5D. A game console which thought it was a full-featured computer system.
5E. Cofounder of Chips 'n' Dips.
5F. It may not have the best sound quality, but at least it's better than Ogg Vorbis.
60. Preface for the 10% of Slashdot comments not prefaced with (3D Across).
63. Apple stole all their ideas from this research group.
64. Bye bye, miss USian ___, drove the Cruiser like some loser who starts posts with a *sigh*
65. A dynamically updated list of the biggest losers on Slashdot.
67. Standard programming language implemented by most high-end printers.
6F. This language's lack of bounds checking is responsible for 90% of software security holes out there.
fin
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
When is this maroon going to start spamming all the e-mail addresses he can find on /. in the name of a marketing experiment?
Katz should have submitted this to someone else at /. and let them decide to post it (or NOT).
You know of course that you have opened a can of flames. As an author I can attest that being talked about isn't always better than being ignored. LOL
Rien n'est plus beau que le creux du 0.
i don't understand why people give katz such a hard time. he's got good insight, and he makes it his mission to communicate the insights and strengths of the geek/OSS community with the rest of the world.
i think that many slashdotters are somewhat embarrassed that katz has turned their area of geeky expertise into a national reputation and has become a successful columnist and writer.
let him sell a few books here... i mean, who cares! by and large he represents the views of the slashdot community even if he doesn't adopt the same AC-like geek-superiority complex that most of us do.
Amazing magic tricks
I've been getting two banner ads on some pages for a while now. And I certainly hope Jon came to my site while he was doing his research... (speaking as a Labrador breeder with 33 years experience, and the owner of the biggest -- and best, if I do say so myself -- kennel site on the entire web)
:)
[/shameless plug]
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Please Jon, stop leaching off a world where you seem to have no basic comprehension whatsoever and go back to reporting traffic accidents and weather.
Enough is enough. I always found it amusing to read Jon Katz's idealist ramblings about the internet culture and community (he's a poor man's N. Negroponte, he is), and the invariable torrent of criticisms from the
But shilling yourself out in the guise of writing an article crosses the line, Jon. If we wanted to hear about your book we'd have looked at the banner ad.
*PLONK*
Giving up some karma here, but...
So you say: "do you advocate banning non-free software?"
He says "No, and I don't care - as long as there's loads of source code around"
Far as I'm concerned, there's no story there.Stallman is supporting free software, and would like a law requiring source code to be made public, as he puts it, like ingredient lists on foods.Where is your problem, neo? If you have no faith in stallman to be stallman, can you trust yourself to be yourself? There are lots of other people and opinions to support... This is not a big conspiracy to promote some secret agenda to control all software! (more like lots of little conspiracies... oh well, at least it's pluralist!).
Ale
Most of us are not into a "corporate culture". If that's the case, then why are we slamming someone who is trying to figure out an alternative method? If a music artist puts an article about how they are trying to sell music without the benefit of RIAA or it's members are we going to also slam them? And then slam RIAA for mistreating them?
You can't have it both ways. Personally, I'm glad that someone is attempting to do something in a new manner (even if it is Jon Katz). If the people who post here would engage their brains before typing, they might realize that there is hope for all of us to accomplish something in our miserable lives (yours, not mine...).
So, here's my suggestion. How about some positive suggestions/ideas on how to make something like this work? Hell guys, I've been trying to figure out alternatives to RIAA, the MPAA and all the publishing associations. But, I'm only one guy...
"It's about individualism, free expression, and a culture open to us all."
Actually, it's not. As in any economy, it's about having enough currency to be able to purchase clout. Open-source is a reputation economy: the currency is the level of your profile in the community. John Katz has a good profile, so from his perspective, it must seem easy to use the open-source network to promote his books. I have no profile in this community, as far as I'm aware, so I'm relatively confident that had I posted the article "Dog Bites Website", it could not have appeared on the home page of slashdot. I lack the currency to pay for that kind of exposure. So do many others, particularly authors and artists who may be producing material greatly of interest to the open-source community, but who don't actively participate in that community because... well, they're working on their art.
The rights to individualism and free expression have to be paid for via participation in the open-source movement, because what you're buying is the attention of your peers in the movement. (You can be as individualistic as you want, and be ignored by all if you have no credibility in the community.) And the "us all" that Katz refers to in his posting is the tiny subset of people who are part of that movement--and not everyone else. So, no, for most of us, open-source is not a solution to the problem of how to get our names out there.
Seriously, this is an insult to the readers of Slashdot (or, at least, me). I've long been a proponent of Rob and Jeff's freedom in choosing topics for the site, but this is a bit much. (And, while it was Katz that put this article up, I highly doubt that he did so without the knowledge of Rob and Jeff.) All this article is is an advertisement for Katz's newest book, with some tenuous ties to topics of interest to Slashdot readers that Katz can point to and say, "See? It's on topic!".
Yeah, Slashdot's been going downhill, but I had hoped it would never sink this low.
--Phil (Now sorry he ever voted to "keep the gasbag".)
355/113 -- Not the famous irrational number PI, but an incredible simulation!
Jon,
I have no problem with the use of a public online forum as a marketing tool, provided that there exists an organic relationship between the forum's focus and the product being touted, as well as a marked understanding of the audience/community by the marketer; in other words, the product should be of general interest to the community at hand, and the marketer should be a member of that community (e.g. no spammers).
I think you satisfy the second provision; while some might get all frothy upon seeing your name attached to articles, there's no doubting that you understand, and are a (not uncontroversial) part of the slashdot community. But the first requirement, that the product should fit organically within the context of the forum, just isn't met...I mean, sure, lots of folks love dogs, including slashdot readers, but, really, isn't a story about a book about a man and his dogs just Meta-Offtopic in the slashdot context?
This Offtopic-ness would certainly be enough for slashdot editors to reject a story from an (functionally, not literally) anonymous contributor. So while you extol the virtues of the "little guy" seizing the open-forum of the internet, this isn't in fact an example of that. This is an example of someone taking advantage of a privileged position vis a vis a particular forum, and using that advantage to publish the sort of advertisement that the general public wouldn't be able to publish.
So maybe what you advocating is that the "little guy" exploit privileged positions within institutions they may be a part of in order to sell whatever it is they're selling. This message, to me, is not so noble...
:wq
A Dog Year is the top Mover on Amazon at the moment. It's up 1730%.
there actually is a good point in there about free-ditribution of books online.
http://www.baen.com/library has a large collection of downloadable books, and a great philosophical point about it. Basically, they're putting their money where their mouth is.
Commendable.
-Styopa
Yep, I could'nt agree more.
Not much of a writer ether.
What slashdot reader would be interested in any book by Katz, let alone one about dogs! He is blatently advertising his book in this article, and although I was almost concidering purchasing his book, this article is enough to turn me off. Mr. Katz ought to find a new outlet for his useless and otherwise frustrating words.
If you want to advertise your book, do it on your own website, or pay for ad space on tv/radio/magazines/whatever. This is not the place to advertise your personal creations in a sad attempt at selling something.
It's a chance for me to tick off the yowling hordes, which is always fun.
Now that is a -5 troll.
But when I saw the ad for his book, it seemed out of place so I clicked it. His marketing strategy may not be all that off.
I've never understood why everyone hates Katz so much. But then, I've never made it through one of his articles either.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Few books sell well, and even fewer (mine, for example) make money.
Maybe your books just aren't interesting and therefore don't sell well. Just a theory.
mod this up! +5 Insightful
from the can-open-marketing-online-save-writers? dept. Witty.
Jon Katz sucks balls!
actually had to pay a small amount of money to view this article! HA!
The quote was said to J. Michael Strazcynski, when he called for advice on getting his works to sell, since none had. The *next* thing he wrote was Bab5.
Yes, we understand these tags always apply: fud, dupe, typo, slashdotted, topic name
C'mon guys... give the guy a break.
Katz just really wanted to tell us about this exciting and interesting new book he has written. I haven't read this book, but after skimming over 1/2 of Katz's review of a book by the same author, I feel compelled to read it.
Well, not really.
Here's hoping the actual book is better than the ad (for the sake of anyone who DOES read it).
If I tried to submit my indie print zine Py (for Python developers) as a valid story it would get knocked down in a heartbeat. *cough* www.PyZine.com *cough*
Now look what you started, Katz. The content _and_ the comments are becoming ad copy.
Bryan
Amazon and other on-line booksellers are being targeted for their strategy of selling used books. (Reminds me of the MPAA/RIAA style of problem solving). Their argument seems to be that advertising used versions of the original book will hit authors in their pocketbooks.
Is this something new? Hasn't this always been the case with used books? Why is it now a newsflash?
And while we're on the topic, what other industry has more than 50% of its products returned to the manufacturer? This seems to suggest something wrong with the whole deal. I'd think that this suggests that publishers over-publish (relative to demand). Apparently market reasearch isn't a strong point of authors or publishers.
The rising cost of books has been driving people to be far more selective. I know I am, when I'm paying $11 Cdn for a novel and $35-45 Cdn for a hardcover new release (the latte obviously much moreso).
And yet, at the same time, I see the web as a vast and powerful marketing tool with low cost (relative to newspaper or TV ads) and I see modern micropublishing capabilities as one way to cut costs.
I saw a special on PBS from Australia that let people publish a few hundred page hardcover in runs of 100 copies for as cheap as Aus $1000 if they were willing to do their own typesetting/formatting. This was a very basic book (black and white, no or few illos), but if I can do small print runs for such a cheap price ($550 USD for 100 copies), then surely there is something very broken about the conventional publishing scene, no?
And is it any wonder when students buying a textbook end up paying $120 for something they use two chapters out of get ticked off? What hapened to some of the initiatives to do chapter-wise production of texts? I know plenty of books I'd like a chapter or two out of, but won't spend $50-150 for! So instead of the author getting something (and the publisher too I guess), they get Nada/Nothing/Zip/Zilch/Squat/No $$$.
Instead of running around hammering Amazon for its book selling strategy, trying to defend IP via vampiric legalism, or jacking the prices of books to insane levels, why don't the authors and publishers start looking at more innovative ways to deliver cost-effective services and services which meet the actual needs/desires rather than those they (in an out-of-touch fashion) seem to imagine to be the case? Or would that require more work and more cranial sweat?
Denmark isn't the only place where something is awry.... conventional publishing seems to be more than a bit broken to my mind....
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
Musings outside of the technology arena, by someone familiar with the tehnology arena provide depth, and I welcome them.
Relevance can be a tricky thing. Here is someone who understands the technology that I live with day by day. At the same time, he is growing and developing through a stage of life that I am (all too quickly) approaching myself. I'm happy to get a fore-taste of what's to come.
I don't mind this article as long as such things are presented in moderation.
----------- Sig what?
If he's the voice of the next nerd generation, we're all in trouble.
He spends less time editing his writing than Harlan Ellison, and yet needs it more.
He talks about new ways of publishing, yet relies on dead trees and traditional publishers.
He's hyping a book about living with four dogs over a year ... on a news site for nerds. And, apparently, gets paid for it by the site.
He thinks he's the saviour of computer nerds because he can install Linux. Or because he takes kiddies to see the South Park movie.
There isn't a band-wagon he isn't willing to hop on. Unless it interferes with his desire to self-agrandize.
I'd belly up money for a subscription if they'd just can this bozo.
Does that mean the book made money or not? What am I thinking? With such clarity and deftness I'm sure it did very well.
Fire Jon Katz and I'll subscribe to slashdot. Who's with me?
Wow, has Slashdot hypocisy really sunk to the level where it's own members can't even boycott the webpage, let alone the myriad of other items they claim to (Blizzard, MPAA, RIAA, etc.) ??
Don't you people realise that this week is supposed to be
The (Hopefully) Great Slashdot Blackout?
Shame on you Katz!
A single-page discussion of the internal conflict he experienced deciding whether and how much to "seed" the amazon page for his book(s). Gotta be a pretty irresistable urge.
The problem is, the first one sold this way will be the last. I'm very much against CD copy protection, despite not having used napster. I want to do what *I* want with the things I buy. But I also realize that many people take advantage of this, and that if I put out a book without DRM, it will be widely pirated, and my revenue goes down. I consider the Stephen King experiment (_The Plant_) to me a failure (and yes, I paid for chapters, just to see what would happen).
So what's an artist to do? If you create music, how can you give people freedom with it, without getting taken advantage of? What about drawings? (I'd be interested to hear how Ryan Bliss is doing financially with his approach.)
I'll pay you to shut the hell up. Set up a site to get donations to the jonkatz-needs-to-shutup fund. I'm sure you'll make more money than you ever did selling crappy books.
Whatever happened to him? He get married and civilized?
Best Slashdot Co
What's wrong with John Grisham? Is it because he sells more books? makes 28 million a year? Guess what Jon, people read his books because they are worth reading.
Maybe your little stint about John Grisham in your article should have <penis envy> </penis envy> around it!
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
I just added it to my wishlist, and I'll order it after I get my last order paid for.
This article is just another example of the above.
- Tempestdata
Institution?! come on. it's a freakin weblog. let katz make his pitch, I don't care. it's not like they don't have thinkgeek ads every fuckin page.
20721
Does anyone else think it is a perversion of the purpose of slashdot (that being to provide news and stories nerds will care about) for JohnKatz to try and pimp his book to us, the guaranteed massive readership of the site?
This article by Katz comes at a time where people are bitching about slashdots advertising system and the supposed slashdot blackout. The article is a very timely piece which I think justifies the posting of it.
I've been very critical of Katz's postings of the past and even modded down as flamebait on several occasions because I disagreed with him so much that I just couldn't make a rational post. This article however I find no fault at all with. In fact I would almost call it genius because it does several things.
First of all it gives him a free plug for several of his books which are far from the techno-geek culture and does so in keeping with current hot topic of slashdot advertising and how so many of us hotheads are against it.
Secondly it forces us to click open the article and post comments which leads to more ads viewed and of course more content for the site.
Pretty clever if you ask me. And on another note, I like dogs and just might pick up a copy of Katz's book just to add some mix to my current reading list. Based on some of the reviews on Amazon it looks like I'd enjoy it.
'Same speed C but faster'
Actually, the story seems more like an advertisement for an advertisement, though I do understand what it tries to be-- "the trials and turbulations of the modern independent author"
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I would have a banner promoting The Road Ahead on Slashdot ALL of the time. Talk about pissing people off!
It would have been a news story if someone else posted something like "Hey, JonKatz wrote a book" - but using your position as an editor to post a story hyping your book ain't news. It's spam.
Making a point about grassroots marketing is all fine and dandy, but not when the book is *yours*. There's a blatant conflict of interest, something you thought about but ignored.
This could have been done better by:
a. Making your in-print book available - in its entirety - online in PDF or some other readable format.
b. Putting links to places where people can go buy your book.
c. Having *someone else* note that you published a book and that it's available online. Y'know, mebbe an interview where you talk about grassroots marketing.
Yeah, people would still have a problem with this because you're an editor on this site. However, it would have a skitch more journalistic integrity.
I'm not JonKatz slamming here - I don't have the "despise JonKatz" intolerance that many others are fond of expressing. But dude, you really should have known better.
Anyway, we all make mistakes - learn from the heat of this one.
... And use this as a blatent excuse to pitch the first Doctor Fun book. Although it's not available yet, you can take a fun poll about it at Plan Nine Publishing,
http://www.plan9.org/
http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/
David
hi diddly ho, you fuckin' shmuck on square wheels!
/. fucktard, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated, and those making them will be summarily shot at sunrise. No exceptions. (You can read everything, even though you are a semi-literate
Nah, don't worry about what the book is about or that he used the net to market it (as opposed to saying the internet is only a source of piracy like SOME organizations..), no no... dismiss it because he's getting publicity for it.
Damn Slashdot for getting the word out there that the internet isn't a bad place to market a book! ADVERTISING BAD!
"Derp de derp."
Something like a book is the automatic feedback. Not only is Katz getting the word out about his new book, he gets to see hundreds of people respond as to why they would or would not buy his book.
Let me predicate this by saying I am a writer. Not a professional one... I do it as a hobby to entertain myself and my freinds. Someday, I'd like to think what I wrote would be worthy of publication. I have received thousands of emails with comments and ideas from total strangers telling me what's good or bad about my writing.
I've learned that I'm not by far ready to do anything warrenting a book.
That having been said, let me say why I won't buy Katzs' book. To be honest, I can't really understand why Katz is so well known. The best guess I can come up with is that he was one of the first people to write about Internet technologies and explore some of the more far out ideas. But today, those far out ideas are common practice, so there is nothing new.
Over the last few years, I've read a lot of the things he's posted on Slashdot. Increasingly, I find him way off base. It feels as if he's somehow become out of touch with the subject matter he uses. When you come up with a new idea, and bring it to an open forum for dialogue, thats a good thing. But if 99% of the people who read it can only respond with 'no, you're wrong', and tear apart your arguments and your premise, then perhaps it's time to rethink where you're comming from.
If you can get anything from the Internet, Katz, it's that you should stop writing for a while. Your ideas seem vague, poorly thought out, and at times just stupid. Get a job... work for a few years. Take some time to observe first hand the phoenomnea and the community you use as your subject matter. And, even if your ideas ARE good, and you sit in frustration wondering why people just can't see them, then you're probably not explaining them well enough.
You have name reconition, something that is above and beyond what 99% of aspiring writers has. If you use the Internet to help you become better, to get back on track, you can continue to be a good writer... or, you can just become a hack. It's up to you.
The Internet is generally stupid
I can see it now... people warezing books :P
"Now talking in #bookz
Topic is: 'JUST TYPED UP OF MICE AND MEN, !BOOKZ FOR INFO'"
Twenty or so years ago when I was a delivery driver for a book wholeseller there were several times when Louis L'Amour would be standing on the back dock to meet the drivers as they came in from their routes. He never really bothered with management or buyers but prefered to "sell" himself to the people who actually placed his books on the store shelves. He claimed to do this in every city he visited. Say what you will about his talent, but there was a time you could always find a Louis L'Amour book in any retail outlet that sold books.
Katz's argument "If the Net and the Web can be used to communicate content like books apart from entities like big publishes, big media (big software manufacturers), that's very newsworthy" is EXACTLY what Kantor and Seigal said. From this it's a short step to Make Money Fast and links to "Lolita sex" sites.
How can you not like a book about Golden Retrievers and Border Collies? Why kind of twisted, hate-filled bags of dirt haunt ./?
...I would have gone to DogsRUs.com. Instead I get a nigh unreadable rant about the woes of the modern author advertising his advertisement on Slashdot to prove a point. I barely can qualify it as news. Golly gee, I think this topic has been ran over several thousand times by a Mac truck concerning Indie Music online vs. The Man.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
That's rediculous. The fact that the major media outlets (there are fewer of them than ever before, with greater than ever penetration into our lives, and higher integration between them -- all the news programs carry the same "top 10" stories that receive 90% of air time) can even presume to tap into web communications shows that it is false. The media giants are very successful at integrating into the video game and movie fan "underground" for example.
In past generations, the TV networks did not even dream of influencing what people talked about in their own home or with their neighbors or aquaintences. Chat rooms have replaced informal conversation in coffee-shops and so forth. News groups and websites like slashdot are called "forums" for a reason. In ancient Greece, all the Hellene geeks hung out in the Acropolis to discuss the latest abacusen and clay tablet geometric formulae. These days they do the same sort of thing on comp.os.minix and sometimes they might talk about politics or pop culture or indulge in flame wars, subjects their historic progenitors may have gotten into too.
Perhaps the only thing worse than JonKatz is 99% of the KatzBashers... aghhh. And sigh.
So I guess the moral of the story is, "If you're Jon Katz, posting thinly-veiled advertisements on Slashdot and passing them off as articles is cool and revolutionary."
By the way, Mr. Katz, if you'll include a digital picture of yourself with your index finger buried at least to the middle knuckle in your left nostril, I would be more than happy to post an "article" all about your new book on my own website. Just say the word.
I have to respect anyone who puts there work out there like Mr. Katz, especially when so many people here are so eager to flame him. I don't always agree with his writing, but I do like it a lot of times. And I doubt I'd have the flame hardened adamantium skin it would take to write an article for
He seems to do quite well from the little help of his posting via his moderator privileges: Amazon.com sales rank 34, bn.com sales rank 7814.
quite a few copies pushed into the market
I know why books don't make money.
In particular, why your books don't make money -- They suck.
I agree with all the ppl saying JonKatz is way out of line here. But I won't whine about it.
Solution:
1. Stop being an AC, register on Slashdot
2. Go into your preferences and find the section labeled "Exclude Stories from Homepage"
3. Check off JonKatz under Authors
4. Save your preferences
5. Go to home page and reload...
Ahhhh, back to "stuff that matters"
In the book he mentions how he was able to get his golden retriever to boot Slackware and tells a fascinating tale of how his great dane smuggled a turd Gator-style into his house and deposited it under the couch.
Nor much of a writer either...
>Some people think if you get a book published, you're a big deal and a rich one. If you're Grisham or King, that's true.
That's because they can write and you can't.
>In early March my eleventh book
Well, whoever said that practice makes perfect never met Jon Katz.
>For several months I've been working on a bottom-up, Net-based marketing program that permits me to push my own book in my own way, rather than rely on big publishing or big media.
Translation: I'm too poor to advertise.
>So why am I buying a banner ad, on Slashdot of all places, to tout my new book about a year with four dogs?
Because the Slashdot staff are the only ones clueless enough to think you're a writer.
>Younger people
That is, young enough not realize that Katz's prose is to real writing what Yoko Ono is to music.
>raised on the Net don't pay nearly as much attention to mainstream media as their elders
Yeah, the mainstream media generally ignores untalented hacks who pretend they're writers.
>To successfully market a book like Running To The Mountain or A Dog Year (at least in the conventional way) could cost more money than my publisher expects to earn.
Yes, that's what tends to happen when your books suck.
>Individuals are under attack all across our culture
As opposed to those of us on Slashdot who are merely assaulted with your bad prose.
>I have no apologies to make for that.
No, what you should apologize for is your writing.
- Rael
This was the last straw. The most blatant shameles self-promotional tripe with no excuse for wasting my time. The final Katz story that actually got me to go to my prefs page and turn off the gasbag.
WTF does "open-marketed" even mean? It isn't related to open source at all. It's just someone hawking their wares on the cheap.
mbbac
Nice chat with Diane Rehm yesterday on NPR.
Don't worry, this promo is free!
http://www.wamu.org/ram/2002/r2020422.ram
---
You left out a couple of steps:
4. Collect Underpants.
5.
6. Profit.
4-bit adder: A snake made of 1's and 0's
I've been convinced for years that a safe and efficient method for making micro payments (less than a dollar perhaps) would make web publishing viable. However, I've never seen information about the costs, potential revenue, break even analysis etc of electronic publishing.
Taking the printing, artwork, shipping, marketing and bricks/mortar out of the equation would seem to make self-published books viable and possibly a good way to make a living.
I read electronic books now, but because they cost the same as a "real" book, I don't do it often. Has anyone (John Katz, maybe) done such an analysis. Can it be done?
Yes, I know Stephen King tried it and didn't like it. But what he considered a failure would probably make most of us fabulously happy.
He should be writing for some shallow bundle of buzzword-intensive hype like Wired. Oh, wait...
Few books sell well, and even fewer (mine, for example) make money.
It's reassuring to know that the American public has better taste in reading material than Slashdot editors.
My money's on the one with the slightly less severe retardation.
On the iMode phone he dug up. I'm sure he can help you open up the Afghan market. After all, if they all speak english and love showes like "tempation island" I'm sure they'll love your retarded dog book.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
When blatant off topic promotional posts thinly disguised as "news" proliferates, forums die. Moderators around the web fight fiercely to survive the onslaught. I am totally dismayed and outraged that an EDITOR resorts to this. Hope you sell enough doggie books through your spamfest so you can retire. My book about cats is almost ready... I'll write a release for this "outlet" as an experiment.
Deciding whether someone's "really" part of a community or not based on their UID number is just silly. What does a low UID tell you, other than someone created that particular account aeons ago? Is a user with a UID1000? Does he/she/it have mad l33t skilz compared to someone with a higher UID?
I guess we know which April Fool's day story wasn't a joke now.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
"What they hate is being bombarded with messages for things they don't care about, which is what traditional media does."
So you're not really -spamming- and -harassing- the users here, so much as you're returning to the roots of "traditional media," so to speak?
Spirits of Desire- No Need for Temptations Washu reeled back in her chair and ran to the open door, which sealed. The entire lab disappeared and turned into a red translucent like field. The ground shook like an earthquake was going on in every square foot. Then a man came out of nowhere. He was tall, almost six and a half feet, making Washu child -like in size. She looked at him with terror in her eyes. "Well I am here mother, I am here like you wanted," said the man "Kiyotaka, it cannot be, you cannot exist," screamed Washu. "You made me Washu, you knew what you were in for. Now I am real, and you are responsible," Said Kiyotaka calmly. Washu looked at him with eyes filled with both fear and remorse. Time seemed to slow down as she remembered the event that caused his creation. She crouched back and reeled with fear. "Now I have you and I will make you hear me," said Kiyotaka. "What do you want," yelled Washu. "Actually, I would ask you the same," said Kiyotaka. "What do you mean?" asked Washu. "Simple, you made me more then five thousand years ago, back in space. I know you can remember. I was made to serve you and give you anything you wish to indulge in and I plan to do just that. I plan to give you and your new found family whatever they want," explained Kiyotaka calmly. "Bite your tongue." said Washu, about to continue when Kiyotaka stiffly crunched his teeth down on his tongue. "You do want to serve us," realized Washu. "I do," answered Kiyotaka. "Well, that's too bad. You are nothing but a demon. That's how I made you." Screamed Washu, as she materialized a laser cannon and started taking aimed shots at Kiyotaka. As the shots echoed throughout the lab, the whole house shook from vibrations. Ryoko stirred and sat up. Seeing Ayeka with her eyes closed. "Well, good morning princess," Said Ryoko with one eye closed "What's with all the vibrations?" "Good morning Ryoko," said Ayeka strangly pleasant, "I don't know what all the vibrations are," "Well they seem to be coming from Washu's lab. We should go see what it is," Ryoko phased out and Ayeka started out of the room. Kiyone got up off the couch and wiped off her eyes. Sasami came out of the kitchen. "What's going on?" Asked Sasami. No answer came as they stared at the storage space and sounds eminating from it. It was an intriguing sound. "You are a fool," Said Kiyotaka, holding Washu by the neck and holding her life in his hands, "You are no match for me Washu. You have no way to stop me. And your friends won't be able to resist me, I am uncanny in those sort of things. I will get them so simply." "Oh yeah, well if you hurt me they will see me and notice," said Washu, muffled by Kiyotaka's grip. "Well, I won't let them see you," said Kiyotaka. He flicked his wrist and snapped his fingers and an identical copy of Washu appeared. She looked exactly like Washu, except she had blue eyes. "Well Little Washu, I think I need to put you somewhere where you won't cause me trouble. Have fun the prison you stuffed me in all those years ago," Screamed Kiyotaka as he opened a dimensional rift that enveloped the floor of the lab. He held Washu close and kissed her on the lips. "Unless you want to negotiate," said Kiyotaka. Washu unable to reply simply spit in his face, and let out a muffled scream. "What a pity, just say if you wish to reconsider," said Kiyotaka as he flung Washu into the swirling blue green lake. She screamed out a huge scream as skeletal arms reached out, grabbed her, and pulled her down. "KIYOTAKA!!!" screamed Washu "DAMN YOU!!!" She was enveloped in the abyss. "Such a pity," said Kiyotaka in his most sinister fashion. He strutted out of her lab like he owned it and tugged on the clone of Washu so as to make it seem it was the real Washu when he walked out. "Hi everyone, this is Kiyotaka model 7001 genie-bot. It is a real genie that I made. I am SUCH A GENIUS," Screamed the false Washu. "Wow Miss Washu, that's really cool," Said Sasami. "Come now, no need to be so formal. From now on call me Shuii," said the clone. *Shuii, a nice touch* thought Kiyotaka. "Well I think I must introduce myself, I am Kiyotaka Matsayama, and I am here to help each one of you." "How the heck will you do that?" asked Ryoko "Simple, I have the ability to grant each one of a wish, whatever it may be, as long as it is within my power. May it be for power, money, happiness, or.." he paused "or love, I will grant it." "This is too good, there must be some catch," stated Kiyone with a lot of confidence. As a Galaxy police officer she had the ability to see a like it were a black spot on a white wall. "I will do it for whatever you want me to do it for, however, for each wish made, the price gets steeper. After three wishes, I name the price," said Kiyotaka. "What will we do with these wishes?" asked Ayeka. "What a dumb question princess, just ask for anything," said Ryoko. "Well, alright then, I want to be in the arms of the person I love," said Ayeka. "Alright," said Kiyotaka, and with a snap of his fingers, Ayeka ended up being in an embrace with Sasami. "WHAT?!?" screamed Ayeka. "I see incest AND arrogance run in Jurai's royal family," said Ryoko. "GRRRRR. I wish for Ryoko to be in immense pain!!!" screamed Ayeka, after letting go of Sasami. "Well, what will you give me, this is your second wish," Ayeka looked around while thinking reached up and took off her royal head-piece. "Here," she said. "Ayeka," muttered Sasami. "Hey, what are you doing!?!" Screamed Ryoko Kiyotaka took it in his hand, vaporized it, and nodded. "Fine," He said, and with a flick of his wrist a huge beast immerged from nowhere. It was covered in spikes that glinted like they were razor sharp. Its bones were visible through its skin. It stood on all fours and the horns on its head were shaped like a ram's. The beast picked up Ryoko as Sasami and Kiyone ducked into the kitchen. Ayeka sat with a huge smile on her face as the beast plunged it's arm deep in Ryoko's chest. "AHhhhhhahHHH, AAAAYYYYEEEKKKKAAAA!!!!" screamed Ryoko at the top of her lungs. Her body arched as she felt the un-imaginable pain. "Say you want it to stop," said Kiyotaka, muffled under all the screams. "SSSTTOOOPPP IITT!!!!!" screamed Ryoko. Kiyotaka snapped his fingers and the beast vanished. A grim face replaced Ayeka's smile as she realized she had but one wish remaining. She closed her eyes and prepared for pain. "Ayeka, I wont waste a wish on you," said Ryoko, who appeared to be in no harm. Just sit back and relax. I'll get you later." "Do any of you have wishes that are remotely interesting?" asked Shuii. "Well I actually do said Ryoko. I want the one thing that would make Ayeka hate me more than ever," said Ayeka. "Give me something," said Kiyotaka. Ryoko reached into her robe and pulled out a picture of her and Tenchi. This was her favorite since Tenchi is smiling and not breaking up a fight. Ryoko smiled and handed it to Kiyotaka, who waved his hand over Ryoko and she disappeared. Kiyone and Sasami walked back into the living room, very cautious. "Where? Where's Ryoko?" asked Sasami. "She's living up her wish, which should start any minute now," said Kiyotaka "By the way, if any of you have a wish, just ask. Shuii will come get me." Kiyone looked on as Kiyotaka vanished in thin air. Meanwhile in another part of the Masaki residence, the shrine to be exact, Tenchi was diligently sweeping. Tenchi looked out at the open forest surrounding his home and closed his eyes. He wondered why his mind was wandering in this way. Suddenly, a small black portal appeared in front of him. He stared at it with a feeling of awe. Ryoko emerged in a Black lace bra with matching thong. She beckoned Tenchi closer. Tenchi was about to recoil, but his own intrigue drew him closer to Ryoko with every step. Finally, he was standing right in front of Ryoko. The black portal extended under his feet and he was sucked in. "Hmm, what could this mean, this is strange," Muttered Yosho. His eyes wandered over the well of the shrine. He had tossed a coin in, as he usually does, when he sees a well, since his time on Jurai. He does this traditionally to 'pay' for a happy and care-free day, yet today, the coin floated on top of the water. Only one other time did this happen, when he went off to battle Ryoko. "Some great power is affecting the spiritual flow," said Yosho. Meanwhile Tenchi lay on a bed looking down at the foot of the bed, where Ryoko stood. She reached back around and un buttoned her bra. It slid off her silky body and exposed her large breasts and hardening nipples. She then pulled down her thong and stood there naked and stared at Tenchi, who got lost in her beauty and perfection. She closed her eyes and began to dance and touch herself, in an apparent attempt to seduce Tenchi. Tenchi knew he could tell Ryoko to stop, but he could not have the heart to stop her. She walked closer to him. She pulled down his pants to get at his cock. She bent her head down over it and began to suck it hard. She had finally gotten her way. She felt it getting stiff in her mouth. Tenchi began to moan loudly. Ryoko kept sucking harder and faster until Tenchi began to growl. Ryoko began to suck softer, and run her tongue along the head. Finally, she sat up and looked in Tenchi's eyes. He looked in her amber eyes and nodded. Ryoko sat down on Tenchi's cock. She forced it into herself. She screamed loud as she began to move up and down. Tenchi felt obliged to help, and started helping Ryoko bounce. She moaned and screamed and huffed and puffed as she felt Tenchi's cock rub the inside of her sex. She looked deep into his eyes and wrapped her lips around his. Tenchi, anticipating this, gripped Ryoko's ass tightly. As Ryoko kissed Tenchi, passionately, Tenchi continued to move her hips so they could remain pleasured. Ryoko thought in her mind this was what she had been waiting for. Tenchi screamed in Ryoko's mouth as he pulled her away. He then moved her into a new position. She was now on all fours. He began to move his hips and drive deeper and deeper into her. All Ryoko could do is moan and scream. Tenchi reached up and grabbed Ryoko's Stiff nipple and began to pinch it hard. She felt this and reached down to massage her clit. Tenchi felt her orgasm coming like a sixth sense, and as she was on the verge of cumming, would slow down and drive in smaller distances. She began to moan loudly. She wanted to be teased and loved every second of it. Tenchi once again picked up the pace. Ryoko's head arched as she reared up so she was now kneeling in front of Tenchi. Ryoko moved so she was lying side ways on the bed. Tenchi stood on the floor and began to drive into her once more. Ryoko screamed loud as Tenchi continuously drove harder and deeper into Ryoko. She reached up and began to feel herself. Finally, after a huge scream, Ryoko came and sprayed all over Tenchi and dripped on the floor. Tenchi, feeling this, could not contain himself. He came. Tenchi's cum shot deep into Ryoko's sex in waves. She felt it and began to scream loudly, louder than she ever screamed before. Finally, Ryoko had gotten what she wanted. A moment with Tenchi, who was now sleeping soundly, was all she wanted. She then pulled out a small camera that sat in the head bar of the bed. She removed the tape and held it tight to her sweat drenched breasts. "Like I said, Ayeka, I'll get you later," said Ryoko softly. She teleported Tenchi and her- self so they were in Tenchi's room. He was still sleeping. She put him on his bed, lay down next to him, and put her head on his chest. She closed her eyes and they slept. End part 2 Preview of part 3 Ryoko's wish has been granted and she now has exactly what she wanted. She is going to make Ayeka pay dearly. What? Ayeka has a plan of her own, well she will with Kiyotaka helping. Plans collide next on Spirits of Desire: No Need for Revenge. It's unimaginably resentful. P+S Readers, if you have any feed back, compliments or story ideas or anything, email me at eat2more@aol.com
Controll Group strikes back for all those sugar pills.
I hate Jon Katz's lamebrained rants as much as the rest of you, and I find this article in particular particularly disturbing. However, after a brief visit to Amazon, I wonder if maybe we don't give him enough credit. _Mainstream_ reviewers have given this book the thumbs up, and, get this, it's now ranked ***85th***. That's, as far as I can estimate, perty damn high for someone who self-publishes his books. Is this some sort of unexpected turn in Jonny's writing for the better, or have all his books ranked this well. And, just out of curiosity, who knows what an 85th ranking means in terms of actual copies sold?
-- Nerds on toast in the new millenium
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!
Think about how many poorly-written, self-serving steaming piles of ... words ... could be produced a small amount of time. It's mindblowing.
Oh, BTW, *BSD is dying. :-P
is there any way to find your email address for a question I'd rather not post publicly on /. ?
Why does everyone seem to hate this Katz fellow?
You can reach me at tofuchute@hotmail.com. Please submit your question there.
Why bother.