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Screenshots of Mac OS X 10.3 Panther Leaked
gorman writes "Screenshots of Apple's next major update to OS X, Panther (10.3), have finally been leaked to the web. For months very little has been known about Panther, with only several minor rumors here and there. These screenshots show off many new features, including the return of labels, a brand new Safari-like finder, and an interesting window management system called Exposé. In addition, the screenshots show off refined visuals and improvements to all of the included Apple applications, such as video support in iChat and enhanced spam filtering in Mail. While these screenshots show off a pre-release version of Panther, it's definitely interesting to see what Apple is working on! Steve Jobs will demonstrate Panther during his keynote this Monday at WWDC and will make it available to developers."
When can I get this for my Pee Cee?
-- Bryan
Looks like apple is poised again to take charge of the future of OSes. I can't wait till monday so i can see what will be in longhorn 2005.
Screenshots of a desktop OS... /. editors must learn some moderation... Not everything is news.
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Does anyone know of a _good_ Gnome theme that matches Mac OS X's Aqua look and feel?
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~12fg/Panther/
Torrent of the index.html and all images is here (panther.torrent) if page gets slashdotted.
Looks the same as the previous version to me.
I mean a few feature stuff. but look and feel looks the same. I'm desperately trying hard to be impressed here. I even tried visualizing seeing pr0n on it. Still not very impressed.
It's on apple.slashdot.org, and most certainly on-topic. You can disable all articles related to Apple easily in your preferences. Oh wait, maybe you can't, you're an AC. Gosh, sucks to be you.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
I uploaded a Bit Torrent link of the screenshots to bytemonsoon.com. You can get the torrent file here
Why do you tempt me with your beautiful OS Apple?!1 Whyyyyy....for the love of God.
*smashes face into keyboard*
Having purchased 10.2.* I have to wonder what this will cost....
Will it be a downloadable update, or will I have to purchase an upgrade disc? If I have to buy it, how much will that cost???
Paul Lenhart writes words!
"experience'.... Blah, how lame. Its soooo overused these days it makes me sick.
Between that and Microsoft's ' rich internet experience' crap.
Its a damned OS, its a TOOL.. its not some drug induced altered state of mind...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This is great. Some people say that posting this is absurd, but you can tell they're not mac users and they don't care about the development of OSX.
OSX is a great OS that Apple actually can develop in secrecy. Microsoft can't even keep their alpha versions covered, so don't think that leaks or new features are known to the world AS they're being debugged. Therefore, very little is known about Panther, and any leak is a good thing (especially so close to its introduction next week.)
I think Apple should keep the aqua look, this new look, isn't as nice as the current.
I see no need to have every application in a metal theme. All the apple apps are enough.
I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
Ssshhhhhhhh.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Improving the the capabilities of the spam filtering in Apple's Mail.app program is nice, but I wonder if they've fixed any of the *REAL* problems? There are so many problems that Macintouch has PAGES of reader reports of issues.
Like, the fact that the application kills its own preferences if your drive runs out of space.
Or the problem of attachments being destroyed when sent if they have a resource fork.
I switched to Mail.app for a day, but switched back to Entourage when I discovered these serious issues, as well as the lack of interface behavior controls (like the fact that Mail.app automatically marks an email viewed in the preview pane as "read", when I don't want it to).
Jory
It looks exactly the same! That is just too cool!
--sdem
Mirror in case of slashdotting: Click Here
No mention of that.
I hope it's there - Yahoo for OS X has had video for ages and it's a lot less useful than voice.
Another thing I'd like is a better shortcut key set than they have. I don't want to *always* keep a mouse in hand.
Also a way to minimize all windows at once...
I don't see another $140 of value here yet...
Cheers,
Jim
-- My Weblog.
Whos willing to bet that the very accidental leak of G5 specs came from the same people who very accidentaly leaked these screenshots.
I'm sure it will have tons of bug fixes and speed improvements, just like Jaguar. But what is easier to show (especially in a screen shot), new features or bug fixes?
I agree. I've had the same complaint ever since QuickTime 4 came out:
* With these brushed-metal windows, you cannot tell which window is in front.
I've closed so many windows I didn't intend to simply because I thought it was in the foreground when I hit Cmd-W.
Why did Apple have to toss out all the UI lessons they'd learned since 1984?
Jory
Seems win 98 was out before 95 left beta... then ME 2 years later.. everyone was bitching about how quickly the operating systems were changing.
Apples doing the same thing and all we get is "OMG OMG OMG".....
C'mon. This is sheit. Upgrades this often shouldn't be charged for unless they come with something cool (like a better, bouncier girlfriend.)
I want to know if that's really Apple's new idea of Aqua for window title bars, etc. It does not gel consistently with the background bars. Look at the system prefs pic, it has pinstripes whereas the others do not. The background bars are usually slightly translucent in 10.2 as well, why is that gone in this 10.3 shot? Also, why would Apple leave a more obvious pinstripe on the menu bar and remove it elsewhere? Either Apple has abandoned consistency within Aqua itself or this is a horrible theming job (like most themes are).
Expose also appears to be just minimize in place (the old 10.2 "feature" that was removed at the last minute) made to work for all things at once. I will be interested to see if it actually proves to be useful or just a gimmick to show off the power of Quartz Extreme.
I do believe these screenshots are real, but I hope to god the interface has been themed in some fashion and Apple isn't doing this to their UI...
A few things:
1) I completely stoked to see Security having it's own control panel.
2) Where's the advanced spam filtering mentioned? I just see the normal Mail.app screen.
3) I don't see the Safari driven finder either. It's just the normal finder window with a brushed metallic look. (I still haven't made up my mind on the metallic. I don't hate it, but it's not lickable like the rest of the OS)
4) For anyone who's never used them, folder actions kick ass.
Can't wait till monday.
-E2
The evil monkey commands you to dance.
Some of those images either look faked or I simply do not understand what is happening.
What's up with this image? If you'll notice, the menu bar across the top appears to be "normal" size, but everything else is kind of scaled down. Is there some new feature that lets you set the "magnification" of the windows rather than just their dimensions? Also notice that the windows are not scaled well at all. Reminds me of nearest neighbor as opposed to bilinear.
AFAIK, it's a violation of Apple's own Human Interface Guidelines to have several selectable items on the same line of a menu, such as in this picture, and this one too.
Lastly, this image shows the System Preferences window, yet the titlebar text is faded like it's unfocused. Unfocused windows in OS X have their titlebars made slightly transluscent. I hope they haven't changed this, it was a good idea.
Also, I didn't know they were removing many of the stiples from the UI. That would be very unlike Apple since users choke whenever the interface look even the slightest bit changed.
Join Tor today!
www.deskmod.com.torrent
Yes, how dare Mail.app mark a message "read" when it's been viewed! I think it should only be marked as "read" after I'd read it, and considered the spiritual nature of it's consequences. When will apple correct this deficiency???
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Here's another MIRROR. in case the other pages have suffered the Slashdot effect.
With an app as buggy as Mail.app is, I don't understand why they haven't released a maintenence update already? I mean they've updated iSync and iPod and other tools so many times in the past few months.
The Mac needs a decent email app. Entourage corrupts mailboxes (and is from M$), Eudora hasn't gotten any real improvements since version 3 (no, I don't consider advertising an improvement), and MailSmith suffers from lack of UI controllability (much like Mail.app).
Did I miss something?
Jory
Where are the screenshots of the "stacks" file-organization metaphor? I was really curious to see how it worked.
Rumor sites and leaks have pretty much gotten all the good stuff already. So I wonder what Steve will do on monday. I mean he truly loves announcing new shiny things.
I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
Dear Apple,
I am... Oh shit! [BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG!]
RIP> Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
That is to say, I love iTunes. It is the easiest, most pleasant way to organize and listen to your digital music collection. But did anybody notice the process monitor shot? iTunes is still sitting there taking almost twice the cycles of the notoriously-bloated-and-CPU-hogging MS Word. That's worse than the performance I got out of iTunes from two versions ago!
Frankly, because making money on OSS is HARD.
(Ask Mandrake oops can't)
-E2
The evil monkey commands you to dance.
Gee, I really don't know what you're talking about. I've been using Mail.app since the beginning of last November, and I haven't had a single problem. Not one.
I have used Outlook on Windows (still do, at work) for many years (I first started using it in 1997, when it shipped with Office 97), and have always found it to be a bloated piece of crap. I couldn't imagine forcing myself to use Entourage, considering it was created by the same company that created Outlook.
Nope, I think Mail.app has just about the right blend of usefulness and minimalism.
No matter where you go... there you are.
this is a MAJOR update. I do not understand how anyone can say otherwise. Apple unlike some companies out there pack a lot of stuff into their ".1' upgrades.
Yes, how dare Mail.app mark a message "read" when it's been viewed!
Who said I viewed it? It will mark the message read simply because I up- or down-arrowed past it on the way to another message.
Personally, I like to mark messages read by hitting a hotkey. But Apple doesn't give us that option.
Jory
Oh please, please please let this be for real and not just photoshops or poorly compressed JPEGs wiping things out..
Could it be? It looks like.. but i'm not sure.. it could just be a trick of the compression..
THE PRISON STRIPES ARE GONE!
No more constant tv-pattern optical effects! No more fuzzy blurring headaches because my eyes are fucked up and i get massive groggy headaches after using mac os x for more than 30 minutes, becuase the constant horizontal gray lines-- and trying to read text on top of them-- leave my eyes unable to ever focus completely! No more searching all over the internet at every minor system update to find the updated versions of the hacked, third-party, reverse-engineered themes and theme systems that will work with the new system version! No more having to use shitty, amateurish themes that break shit and never work on more than one minor revision of OS X just so that i don't have to look at those fucking prison stripes and get horrendous groggy headaches!
The only way I could be happier is if they actually made this a customization option, with a range of different appearances, and added a feature to enable clear, draggable window borders, instead of having the window borders be near-invisible fuzzy-shadowed gray white lines (meaning there is no differentiation between different screen areas, thus making the screen one giant gray-white wash that makes focusing my eyes even harder...).
But I am so happy. I cannot WAIT for monday.
-- super ugly ultraman
I can't decide if this poster is a troll or an imbecile.
Perhaps both.
"...enhanced spam filtering in Mail."
I don't see it. I see a a screenshot of mail, but nothing about spam filtering. Perhaps I am overlooking it. But for me, anyway, enhanced spam filtering means that the code/protocols/rules/databases/whatever with wich the filtering works is (being) improved. And such things can't be seen on a screenshot. Unless it's one of the sourcecode, I guess.
So how come the poster is claiming enhanced spam filtering is incorperated?
Yeah they're even breaking their own aqua guidelines. I haven't had a problem with telling which window is infront since I use tabs, and hide applications I don't use.
I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
Same old shitty jelly/toothpaste-look with "cool" horizontal stripes all over the GUI. Seems like this is still treated as "news" though. :-P
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Everbody who has used a Mac once knows how it annoying it is to have only one mouse button.
Sometimes I wonder why Jobs had such a bad idea, where they assuming that Apple users can't distinguish right from left ?
However, they has fixed it in the new OS version.
And it's a good fix, too.
Instead of forcing users to buy new expensive two-button mice, they just created the second button on the desktop interface. Everytime you want to click the second mouse button you just have to move the mouse pointer over a little button icon and click on it. That's a pretty clever solution. Even better: with this technique you can install an arbitrary number of mouse button on your mouse. That's something MS Windows won't have for the next 10 years. In fact, propably for the next 20 year 'cos Apple is trying to pantent this stuff.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
I wonder if the screenshots were taken during the pr0n testing phase, or if a desperate wife was trying to "convince" her husband to come home and stop playing with Panther....
"This food is problematic."
Ah, would you believe a trolling imbecile?
No matter where you go... there you are.
Am I the only one who thinks the shown application windows could be a lot smaller when the controls were positioned more elegantly and efficiently (screenspace wise) and without a lot of space between them?
Perhaps people who are not used to operate a computer with gui screens are confused with a lot of information on their screen but this way you need a lot of dialogs to display all the information simply because the dialogs can't contain a lot of info: most space on the dialog is simply not used. OR, apple is hiding a lot of info so you don't need a lot of dialogs because the total amount of information to show is not a hell of a lot.
Either way, the usage of screenspace like how its done in these screenshots is IMHO a waste of pixels. It can be done a lot more efficient. (look at the process viewer. A lot of space is wasted below the list by a total inefficient ordering of controls, so less space is reserved for the real data: the process list).
Early X11 applications also had this example of IMHO bad interface design.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
>Entourage corrupts mailboxes
Really? DO you have evidence? I am sick of FUD on Entourage because it is an M$ product. Grow up, M$ isn't pure evil.
Cool!! Built-in porn!!
i know they're listed as a point releasee, but lets get real here. if nothing else, it's going to be 64 bit. OF COURSE you're going to have to pay for it.
unless of course you want to buy some shiny new hardware. (you know you want to)
Topic in #os: hey guyz, stop pickin on irix. /msg atnt haha. idiot. :~(
<SCO> w00t! i bought unix! im gonna b so rich!
<novell>
<novell> whoops. was that out loud?
<atnt> rotfl
<ibm> lol
<SCO> why r u laffin at me?
<novell> dude, unix is so 10 years ago. linux is in now.
<SCO> wtf?
<SCO> hey guyz, i bought caldera, I have linux now.
<red_hat> haha, your linux sucks.
<novell> lol
<atnt> lol
<ibm> lol
<SCO> no wayz, i will sell more linux than u!
<ibm> your linux sucks, you should look at SuSE
<SuSE> Ja. Wir bilden gutes Linux für IBM.
<SCO> can we do linux with you?
<SuSE> Ich bin nicht sicher...
<ibm> *cough*
<SuSE> Gut lassen Sie uns vereinigen.
* SuSE is now SuSE[UL]
* SCO is now caldera[UL]
<turbolinux> can we play?
<conectiva> we're bored... we'll go too.
<ibm> sure!
* turbolinux is now turbolinux[UL]
* conectiva is now conectiva[UL]
<ibm> redhat: you should join!
<SuSE[UL]> Ja! Wir sind vereinigtes Linux. Widerstand ist vergeblich.
<red_hat> haha. no.
<red_hat> lamers.
<ibm> what about you debian?
<debian> we'll discuss it and let you know in 5 years.
<caldera[UL]> no one wants my linux!
<turbolinux[UL]> i got owned.
<caldera[UL]> u all tricked me. linux is lame.
* caldera[UL] is now known as SCO
<SCO> i'm going back to unix.
<SGI> yeah! want to do unix with me?
<SCO> haha. no. lamer.
<novell> lol
<ibm> snap!
<SGI>
<SCO> hey, u shut up. im gonna sue u ibm.
<ibm> wtf?
<SCO> yea, you stole all the good stuff from unix.
<red_hat> lol
<SuSE[UL]> heraus laut lachen
<ibm> lol
<SCO> shutup. i'm gonna email all your friends and tell them you suck.
<ibm> go ahead. baby.
<SCO> andandand... i revoke your unix! how do you like that?
<ibm> oh no, you didn't. AIX is forever.
<novell> actually, we still own unix, you can't do that.
<SCO> wtf? we bought it from u.
<novell> whoops. our bad.
<SCO> i own u. haha
<SCO> ibm: give me all your AIX now!
<ibm> whatever. lamer.
* ibm sets mode +b SCO!*@*
* SCO has been kicked from #os (own this.)
There are several settings in the system preferences that allows one to change how anti-aliasing is used on your system.
I'd also be willing to bet that panther is doing some sort of update to the anti-aliasing hence the jagged looking fonts while the bugs are being worked out.
As for you comment about mac people being more artistic I suggest you point your browser to sites such as The O'Reilly Network and The developer mailing list archives to see just how big of an audience the mac really has. Sure there are plenty of artsy folk using the mac, but there is also a slew of terminal junkies as well.
100% Crunchier
It did receive fixes. Before some 10.2.x update, Mail.app would have serious problems with nested IMAP folders. I reported the bug to apple and they fixed it.
All I have to complain about is that with large folders it appears to stall indexing them but simply quitting and restarting it clears the issue (and no, Force Quit doesn't destroy anything). Also I wouldn't mind if it had parallel IMAP/POP connections but as far as I'm concerned I'm very pleased by it.
Saluti
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
Cause it looks like shit
I couldn't imagine forcing myself to use Entourage
I switched to Entourage because I got tired of the constant updates to Eudora. Updates that didn't add features I wanted.
Nope, I think Mail.app has just about the right blend of usefulness and minimalism.
It is close, which is why I make my comment at all. I want to switch to Mail.app, but I had tons of troubles with it in the first day. I don't like the bloat of Entourage, but I've been using it for quite some time, now, so it's difficult to switch. I already use iCal for my appointments and Apple's Address Book for my contacts.
The only three complains I really have about Mail.app are the two I already mentioned (heinous bugs and UI control) and it could benefit from some better find functionality. Personally, I think the find functions in MailSmith are the best, since it allows grep-type searches.
Jory
Ssssh. I still can't believe people paid money for Windows ME.
And to answer your question, it'll probably be US$129, just like the last point upgrade they released. How minor it truly is we will never know, since we can't see their source. But I suggest you cut the version number whining, unless you'd like to suggest to me that the Linux kernel 2.2, 2.4, and (upcoming) 2.6 releases were all "minor updates". (And yes, I know i'm not paying for kernel.org. That's also not my point.)
What's with all the "brushed metal"-looking programs this time around? I thought Apple was going for UI consistancy. Surely having a bunch of built-in programs that look totally different from everything else on the system defeats the purpose here? And if you must violate your own UI consistancy standards, you should at least do it for something less ugly-looking than brushed metal. Ew!
Awww... idealists, aren't they cute?
The evil monkey commands you to dance.
It will mark the message read simply because I up- or down-arrowed past it on the way to another message.
Actually, it doesn't. It only marks the message as read after it's actually been loaded into the preview pane. If you arrow past a message, without giving it time to load and display, it doesn't get marked as read.
Of course, you should simply collapse the preview pane and read your messages by double-clicking on them, if that's what will make you happy.
Complaining that Mail.app sucks because you don't know how to use it makes you sound like a complete tool.
DO you have evidence?
Sure. I've got a 900 MB mailbox I can't send email from anymore because if I send more than 2 attachments, it replaces the additional ones with randomly-selected email from my Inbox. I had to create a new Identity (thus making a new mailbox file) in order to continue working. At least I can easily reference my old mailbox. (And, yes, I've already tried all the rebuild functions and whatnot.)
M$ was willing to help with it, but only if I sent them my mailbox file. Riiiiigghhht. I'm a little uncomfortable with sending my personal email (that dates back to 1996) to M$.
Jory
OS X has excellent reliability and stability. Thankfully that's one thing BSD and NeXT helped them achieve from the get go. While I agree that eye candy is fluffy and useless, there is a HUGE issue in between those, and that is USABILITY.
OS X was criticized early on by MacOS fanatics who thought they changed too much. In retrospect some of the changes were good, and some were bad. Regardless, OS X still has a long way to go to reach it's usability potential. There's lots of room for aquafying CLI tools and subtle things like putting the date in the menubar clock. The screenshots show a lot of new meat to the OS, not just cosmetic changes. I don't know whether I agree with charging $100 for the upgrade, but I'll still pay and love it.
Right here, down at the bottom of the page.
Bowie J. Poag
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
Mirror here.
Looking at the process monitor, I see a tag for "%Nice". It is at zero. I have 2 questions...
1) Where is the %Evil tag?
2) Is it properly registering 100?
When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the dwarves began to suspect Hungry.
but too bad its a fake, heh.
That's not a Mail.app bug, that's an OS X behavior. I've experienced this particular little "feature" with MT-Newswatcher, Safari/Chimera/MSIE, AlphaX, Preview, etc.
That said, I've been using Mail.app to handle email from 5 different accounts since 10.0 and I've had no problems with it.
With all this whining about the price of "point" release, Apple should take a page from the Sun playbook and call Panther "Mac OS X 3.0" not "Mac OS X 10.3".
Do you have any idea how much Solaris 2.6 cost to get from 2.5? It didn't feel so bad when they started calling it Solairs 7, 8 and 9. (although it's still just SunOS 2.7, 2.8 and 2.9) They aren't just "point" releases, they're really version upgrades, and Apple is just reserving the major version number "Mac OS 11" for when (or if) there is ever another rewrite of the OS, ala OS X itself.
-twb
Some of you know this, many of you dont. Unlike other OS updates, this one is NOT focused on heaping on more and more useless features.
There will be some 'fleshing out' of existing apps, utilities, and functionality (such a video in iChat, better spam filtering and mail sorting, full version of Safari, and some new ways to navigate files (for the kindergarten set)). The bulk of this upgrade is 'rumored' to be under the hood.
reports on some rumor sites claim to have seen pre-releases of 10.3 running exponentially faster than 10.2, even on older G3 machines. These screenshots fail in conveying the efficiency of the quartz rendering system, and how in 10.1 it was mostly a proof of concept, in 10.2 it was beta at best, and in 10.3 it will finally be mature. Combine that with serious optimizations to the finder and dock, and its not hard to imagine 10.3 running rings around 10.2 or earlier, and even matching or exceeding speed of XP's finder (and all this with a far simpler interface than XP's convoluted birdsnest of navigation options).
Will it cost? you bet! we will pay (or at least 'borrow' a paid copy) for this update, Apple has learned a lesson from the darkside... if they produce it, eventually you (Mac Users) will buy it.
Will it be worth the cost? IMHO no question of it, as long as it meets 1/10'th of the rumored expectations
Just as irrigation is the lifeblood of the Southwest, lifeblood is the soup of cannibals. -- Jack Handy
And yes, I am rating these as a theme, so don't go moaning about how an OS is what's under the hood, not just a pretty interface.
----- "All right. It was a miracle. Can we go now?"
These can be obvious fakes. Just because they might please the common users wet dream, don't mean that they're true. I'm not a pessimist, but a realist. The leaked G5 picture last week made me think... Half of the crap that is said in the rumor mills of the Mac community is pure bull. Remember those other screenshots of Panther way back? The one with piles. Obvious fake (it looked really bad). And then there was the one with the brushed metal Mail application. Obvious fake (it also looked really bad, and made no sense too). You know what? If these turn out to be true, there is only one person in the world I feel sorry for. And that is Steve Jobs. It's ashamed. He really love suprises. Now not only are the specifications of the G5 leaked, now probably the screenshots are. This could have been the best keynote ever from Steve Jobs. And now it's all ruined because of the rabid behaviour of mac websites. In its current state they're worse than the English gossip press... I used to be one of them. But I quit, because it was just too fanatical.
What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
Taken directly from the MacRumors forums:
[quote]
Re: This is fake
First, I'm really really really pissed off because I wrote this whole message and then accidentally deleted it. Seems you can't control-Z in these input boxes.
Second, I think these shots are fake, too. I hope they are for some of the reasons outlined below. I'll be going into a lot less detail in light of the fact that I'm having to type it all again. I did do an Observation/Conclusion thing, but this time I'll just make the observations and you can make your own conclusions.
I have only skimmed the thread, so apologies if these points have been brought up. Just seemed like everyone was "WOOHOO"ing without really looking closely. And similarity to other posts is just coincidence.
OBSERVATION: In the Activity Monitor window there are strange inconsistencies.
* First there are really tacky colours. Windows type tacky colour, not beautiful Apple colours.
* Second, the "% Nice" uses a , to seperate the decimals, not a . like the rest of the %'s. This smacks to me of a slip-up by someone European making the fakes.
* Third, the "Threads" and "Processes" don't line up right. Unless this is a very early build, it's very sloppy.
OBSERVATION: Yahoo Instant messenger is in the dock and on the desktop. If this is Panther, that presumably means no Yahoo support in iChat.
OBSERVATION: In the full screen of the expose desktop, Safari is all blocked out. Why? What incriminating website could he/she be looking at?
OBSERVATION: Why are the iChat windows censored totally? Why not just block them out like the Safari window?
OBSERVATION: About Finder is all wrong. "The Macintosh Desktop Experience"? And why "Finder version 10.3" rather than "Mac OS X (10.3)" like we'd expect? These aren't big things, obviously, but still...
OBSERVATION: No build number. Seems strange, since they'll most likely be giving out preview copies on Monday, and developers will want to know what build they're working with. If it's the final release, how did slip-ups like above creep in?
OBSERVATION: In the iChat window, it says "There is no camera attached to this computer." Yet the progress bar seems to be showing activity of some sort?
OBSERVATION: The Finder window named Xdrive is metal, but not entirely consistently. The metal has a bar down the right, next to the scroll bar, unlike Safari. This on its own is nothing that important, but the grow icon thing in the bottom right seems misplaced.
OBSERVATION: In the Mail screenshot, the "Working Offline" seems all wrong. Especially the "o" in working.
It just seems all wrong to me. I'm bound to end up with egg on my face, but I thought these items needed discussion.
- Jimmni
[/quote]
Points worth thinking about.
(tig)
"We do not inherit the land from our ancestors"
"We borrow it from our children"
Ignorance and prejudice and fear
Walk hand in hand
I dont understand ? unless the person leaking the screenshots ws looking at porn or something?
Well spoken! ;)
Either slashdot should retract all articles that might be read on other news sites, or at least apologise profusely for being so redundant.
In fact, Slashdot should really just close up shop since all they do is repeat articles and news easily gleaned from browsing through 5 or 10 thousand websites, and a few hundred newsgroups.
Admit it Slashdot, you're just a wanna be
Just as irrigation is the lifeblood of the Southwest, lifeblood is the soup of cannibals. -- Jack Handy
Given that 2 button support is built into the OS already. Or you can just hold down ctrl when you click to get the same effect.
(never seen that desktop mouse icon you speak of either)
-E2
The evil monkey commands you to dance.
If these turn out to be true, there is only one person in the world I feel sorry for. And that is Steve Jobs.
Don't worry, you never have to feel sorry for Steves Jobs. He's a major league asshole who just happened to know Wozniak.
This is not the case in the Windows world, for example, most software will still run on Windows 98, and often Windows 95, which are 3 and 4 revisions old, respectively. If you visit download.com, all the shareware seems to run on 95/98/ME/2000/XP.
Apple seems to have their users by the balls... sure you don't HAVE to upgrade, but if you don't, you will quickly find that nothing new will run on your system.
Why is this? Is the system software really changing that dramatically? What makes the older versions of X so hard to support?
Come on, what more did you expect from such a belaguered computer maker?
What do you know about World Politic? Find out in this quiz
most mail programs, atleast in the windows world, have an option to mark something as read after it'd been highlighted for a certain amount of time, that way if you scoll past it it's still unread, but if you stay on it for a 20 seconds or whatever it switches to read.. I find it hard to believe that apple left this feature out of their mail program..
That sounds like a scary problem... then again, my drive doesn't run out of space too often.
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
They don't because they don't believe it will make them money. Seriously.
... this really isn't an attack on you or the GNOME/KDE teams. Some of this is going to seem harsh, but I'm stating my opinion. Please don't take it personally, or as a slam to KDE or GNOME, since I do actually like both of these projects, even though I don't think they (or Apple, for that matter) are the best thing since sliced neko bread.
... what do you mean, exactly, by "little incompatibilities"? Are you throwing this out to make your post look balanced, or did you have something specific in mind? I couldn't think of anything off hand ... until I realized that switching to GNOME or KDE would likely mean GTK+ or QT, which would involve changing the entire desktop API for every Mac OS application. This is not! a "little" incompatibility. Making some sort of Cocoa wrapper would be a huge pain in the ass, no matter how good a coder you are. That would still be better than forcing every OS X developer to rewrite their application (again, if it used to be an old OS 9- program). This would be a huge waste of Apple's time and money and probably piss off their developers to no end.
Using GNOME or KDE in their next release would be a horrible idea for Apple. And here's why.
Apple already just recently (well, 10.0) totally changed their UI and user experience from what it had been for a decade. That pissed off a lot of hardcore old users. Apple doesn't need to go alienating their users again. (And no, I don't feel that the Aqua themes "count". They're pretty, but they're not "there", from my recollection.)
Performance-wise? The most recent releases of GNOME and KDE felt slower on my 866 MHz i686 machine than 10.2 did on my 700 MHz PPC750. Apple really doesn't need their OS getting slower, especially on their low-end machines, which people here already bitch and taunt as being horribly underpowered.
Finally
Really finally, now, as a matter of personal opinion, I do actually like the whole OS X UI system better than GNOME or KDE. The legions of rabid and not-so-rabid Apple loyalists would probably agree with me, since OS X probably at least tries to follow whatever Apple's UI standards are. Not only are GNOME and KDE "not Apple", but the UI experience is different. So I don't think Apple would garner support from their users by switching.
Is your sig accurate??? Um. Yeah. That "old proprietary stuff" really sucks. I think you're experiencing a different type of Reality Distortion Field there, buddy.
Is there some reason I'm supposed to get excited about screenshots that look essentially IDENTICAL to what v 10.2 already has? I mean... it looks the SAME. I'm a Mac user too, but... BFD.
Funny, I just switched from Entourage to Mail.app because of the spam features! I think MS should take a serious look at Mail.app if it really intends to fight spam.
Heh. I have an Apple laptop and it's a Linux laptop, both at the same time!
OS X is pretty good. PPC Linux runs just fine (aside from a few "all the world's an Intel" complexes some developers have). Dual booting is nice and stylish for the developer on the go.
The first upgrade is free :)
Umm, if you won't help them replicate the problem in their labs, how do you expect them to help? If you think telling them "Entourage chokes on 900MB mailboxes" will give them enough info to fix it, you obviously have never written a semi-complex piece of software in your life, dumass.
"Grow up, M$ isn't pure evil."
Actually yes they are.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
see the "activity monitor" screenshot? look at #799... i love zombie processes! either that or its some paraniod-bound drm module. =) either way i cant wait to install panther @ wwdc!!! see ya'll there!
"The chief enemy of creativity is 'good taste'" -Pablo Picasso
I wish slashdot had an edit option. It was supposed to be:
Good software isn't free.
Back in pre-Alpha, pre-Quartz, when faked screenshots of the upcoming MacOS X were an entire social movement, I put together a fake "faked" screenshot of OS X for Stepwise.com (Solution) that got slashdotted. Lots of fun. Maybe we should do one for Panther...
Sean Luke
Guess you'll be wanting to use OpenBSD and QNX on your desktop then, huh?
How's Mozilla on OSX these days? I use it exclusively for my email on my PC, and I just chuckle when I hear my colleagues complaining about their MS mail clients.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
It is Apple's policy. It works out so that you pay for every other version so you only have to pay your $129 every other release. This has nothing to do with price so stop trying to confuse the issue. Although past trends don't determine the future, they can give you a good idea, especially when it's company policy.
You see posts about Longhorn here, new and upcoming phones, new tech in cars....shit, even new gadgets embedded into clothing. I'm sure there's a site for each of these things..
Just because you aren't interested in something is hardly a reason to stop carrying it. Now go back to reading all those damned SCO submissions..
Previous Apple OS releases (pre X) went something like as follows:
With the release of MacOS X Apple has changed the way they have structed their free update/paid update numbering scheme as follow.
As you can see Apple is being very consistant with how/when they charge for updates. As for the preception that you're paying for only a "point udpate," well get over it. Apple's current "point updates" are at _least_ on par with the past 8.1 -> 8.5 paid updates (actually more so).
As for the Panther updates if you've read any of the rumor sites and believe that the PowerPC 970 is the next CPU used in the Apple's new systems then by extension MacOS X 10.3 will be a 64bit based OS. Thats a major update (moving from 32bit to 64bit OS). There's no way any commercial OS would not charge for that big of an update, plus all the other twiks and refinements that are being included in this release.
Over all $129 for a retail pricing of a OS is very good. Look at the retail pricing for M$ XP Pro (not that XP home crap) and you'll see that it's much higher. Also alot of people qualify to buy through other means that provide discounts such as:
Several of the above can be combined together and further reduce the cost.
So in short at least Apple provides a powerful OS at reasonable pricing for all it's customers.
mirrored here as well.
will qt under osX give you "normal" osX look or will apps look like they look under kde?
-- http://electronicintifada.net --
Eye candy? When you get past the command line, what "isn't" eye candy? Granted that it may be said that certain features/effects when first introduced seem unecessary, but in time people come to expect them and take them for granted. That doesn't minimize their value.
Personally, I'd go back to using the command line only (if that's possible) if I had to endure staring at a 16 (or even 256-colour) interface that lacked subtle animations, offered limited font choices and effects, and presented a flatness possible only without 3D "eye candy." Even billg recently admitted that most Window applications today look ugly. I'd also point out that it's far easier to read on-screen when the background isn't a solid brilliant white, or, for that matter, any solid colour.
On the other hand, your objections would be perfectly valid if you were to have said that you personally don't like a colourful desktop, or that your find excessive animation effects distracting. In that case, I'd most likely agree with you.
People in design or the arts choose Apple for many reasons. The fact that the interface is beautiful is as legitimate as any other.
How certain are you that Entourage doesn't do the same things under the same conditions? I think you're overblowing the situation.
Many applications that write out their prefs upon quitting will get screwed up if you don't have sufficient disk space to write to. I admit it's a bit like buffer overflows (the programmers should re-think their assumptions), but I'd like to see a list of applications that *wouldn't* be guilty of this.
Also, Mail.app uses the AppleDouble encoding standard, and yeah, apparently, that zaps the resource fork. IIRC, it's long (System 7.5 days) been Apple's take on things that documents shouldn't have resource forks (maybe preferences were okay), and Word still uses this approach. Entourage also allows you to use AppleDouble encoding (is it the default setting?), and I suspect that you'll see exactly the same problem if you try that tack.
I see Entourage as having three main advantages over Mail.app.
1) Entourage allows you to choose your encoding method. (Although with Mail.app, all you have to do is zip or similarly encode/compress your attachments manually),
2) Entourage allows you to label your mail with user-specified colors and Categories, whereas Mail.app only lets you flag mails and set up colors based on Rule sets.
3) The intregration with the calendaring functionality is sweet and presumably will only get better with the next version's Outlook integration. I'd love to see Mail.app and iCal integrate as well!
Of course the main advantage of Mail.app over Entourage for me is that Mail.app hasn't repeatedly lost months of my mail. So far.
--Kimota!
PS: I agree with you on the marking items as read thing, though!
Who moderates the meta-moderators?
Apple needs to figure out that different doesn't meant better.
A new ceo would help too.
--------
get jiggy w/ ayn rand!
I think 10.3 comes with a new feature called "Mail Folders". The description I read says: "Mail folders now allow you to store old email that you wish to keep so that it no longer clutters up your mailbox." *whew* Now you'll be able to split them up! Thankfully they brought this up now!
Come on, there's no reason to have a 900MB mailbox, split it up for God's sake.
as in the columns view? where you can preview nearly any file??
Just as irrigation is the lifeblood of the Southwest, lifeblood is the soup of cannibals. -- Jack Handy
You know, I have a TiBook and I'm very happy with it, but I have to echo your question.
OSX is better than the competition, but it drives me nuts how it fails to live up to its potential. The old Mac OS sucked at a technical level, but I greatly prefer the interface. The NeXT interface was far better than Aqua as well, in my opinion. I'd love to have the option to make OSX look and act like either.
Under the hood it's great. And the GUI is a step above Windows, at least. But it's still a real POS compared to what it should have been.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Mirror: here
I used to have an iBook, and now have a laptop running Windows XP. I'd say that the ClearType fonts on the XP one look far better to me than the ones on the iBook did. Arial in small sizes is especially bad on OS X, if you antialias it it looks too fuzzy but if you don't the hinting makes it look all crooked. Perhaps it's just because this XP machine has a 1400x1050 screen that the fonts look so much better, but on the other hand you can't even get a Mac laptop with that sort of resolution. The end result is all that matters, and I'd never go back to the iBook now.
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
It is true that, by the end of OS9, Apple had refined the user interface very well. It "drove" like a sports car, giving excellent feedback about what was happening. To an experienced user, it was fast, efficient, and transparent.
A lot of that was lost in the transition to Aqua. Some of it is slowly being reincorporated. Aqua also has some new ideas (like "sheets") that are better than OS9 (modal dialogues).
I have heard that "brushed metal" is Jobs' obsession. To me, it is a step backward in usability, and I don't even think it looks good, either.
Reading Slashdot is ruining my spelling and grammar.
Many people including myself beg to differ with you, and QuickTime looks so much better than other media players.
The front window has color buttons instead of grey ones, I can't see how anyone could miss the difference.
My mouse has eight buttons, not counting the scroll wheel, I'm sure others have more. I don't even use all of them. There are two necessary features of a mouse: location specific selection and location specific menu activation. Gee, that would negate any advantage of a virtual mouse button becase it isn't location specific any more than opening a menu from the top of the screen. But maybe I'm missing something here.
Any other mouse functions (scroll wheels, forward/back buttons) are placed on the mouse just to take advantage of your idle fingers, or create an easier way of doing a location specific task (ie. double click or access a specific menu command)that can already be done in a two button model. MS Windows won't ever have this feature; it just isn't necessary given the hardware/software available to windows users. Nowadays, you couldn't sell a pc user a two-button mouse, they expect a scroll button at least. Yet it remains 'expensive' for apple users to 'upgrade' to this 'new' feature. Apple can get as many patents for this as they want. No one will care. Don't get me wrong, Apple does a lot of things better than PC/Microsoft, this is not one of them.
In response to your slightly trollest comment.
Apple have to maintain their "old proprietary stuff" in order to protect their brand. Being a hardware company they have to provide some reason to buy a mac over a dell and user experience is the primary one. Its called a USP or unique selling point. So you are looking at a political/design problem and not engineering/coding problem. Plus Xwindows doesn't hold a candle to quartz. IMHO Apple are walking a fine line between OSS on the one side and propriety code on the other, While not aggressively trying to embrace and extend ala Microsoft, cut them some slack will you.
What I hope will happen is that the OSS UIs that are around start to incorporate some of the ideas from Aqua rather then just trying to clone windows - A practice I personally find to be pathetic considering that windows is just a knock off of Apples ideas in the first place and a pretty lame one at that.
Anyone care to guess what this does? I don't get it. I could wait 'til Monday to find out, sure, but I wanna know now!
--
$tar -xvf
Well Outlook still has problems with corrupt PST files! Yeah at least you have an inbox repair tool and a downloadable truncator tool for when your lusers create 2.5GB PST files and then wonder why Outlook runs so damn slow!
At least Mail.app uses Unix mailstores! Plain text is worlds better then a proprietary binary datastore that get's corrupted!
I dunno. It looks a lot like OS X.2 to me.
Oh yeah, and Steve Jobs is a Jew.
I think I will stick with v10.2.6 and upgrade to a major OS like v11.0 when it comes out. v10.3 isn't a major upgrade that I want to get.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
http://208.195.115.106/
:o)
Looks purty
If you're making two different looks anyway???
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Apple is renowned for its consistant UI design and Mac users renowned for demanding such consistancy from vendors.
This leaves me wondering, then, what the reasoning isbehind having two completely different types of application window? What sets a brushed-metal window apart from a conventionally-bordered window?
This is not intended as an anti-Mac troll. I don't often get to use Mac OS X, so this is just simple curiosity.
FWIW I have been using Mail.app since the day it came out, and have had little to no trouble with it....no problems with attachments, etc.
+(norad) if you rearrange the letters in mother in law, you get woman hitler
I dunno, my mail lets me scroll past my mail just fine (without marking it as read) as long as I go fast enough. Kinda annoying with spam I get from Real.com (my only spam, and they only send crap every a couple of weeks)
YarrRrr
They're bringing back labels! Horay!
Mod point free since 2001
Redhat made a profit!
You can't make a profit selling open source, not really. The money is in the other products/services that you can provide.
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
I thought Apple was going to implement their "Piles" concept in this release?
http://homepage.mac.com/rdas7/piles.html (you'll need a Flash-enabled browser)
http://theregister.co.uk/content/39/30360.html
What part of "well regulated" do you not understand?
Reality has a liberal bias
True, but it's a normal Mail.app screen with nothing in the inbox. That's some damn good spam filtering.
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
Since we all know that Apple has guys reading this kind of stuff, and seeing how soon the G5 stuff disappeared, the fact that this is still here for all to see is more than inconsistent on their part if this were for real.
There's also the fact that the 'mailboxes', 'compose', and 'get mail' icons in the Mail app look distorted and the sizing widget in the Finder is misaligned with the scroll bar. On the other hand, however, it seems as though either the person who faked it really likes menu separators and added them to every single menu or Apple really did bring them back (sort of like the separator in the dock); I do think the latter is more likely. It is highly improbable, however, that Apple reimplemented colour labels in the fashion illustrated, because Apple has ever been strongly against adding custom behaviour to menus; if they were to add label functionality, they would have put it in a submenu thus (the 'x' being a check mark):
label > x none
Just some observations that struck me.ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂred
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂorange
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ(etc.)
Mozilla Mail.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I don't think the issue is Aqua. I think Aqua is a GREAT UI. However, its rough around the edges. I agree the mix of metal and Aqua needs to be fixed - and Metal especially needs more work. But its not anything that the old OS was better at.
I'm fairly certain these are fake. In expose2.jpg, in the window marked only "Censored", it's not entirely censored. There is a single pixel wide length of window left at the top. So, because I'm both a masochist and a karma-whore, I extracted this single line of pixels and found (according to GraphicsConverter), that it is 100% white (as in, not grey, or black, completely white). I also took samples of the very top pixel of the windows in sysprefs.jpg and ichat.jpg, and found them to both be 98% white. Then, I took a screenshot of my own Jaguar desktop, and found the top pixel in windows to be 100% white. So, I conclude, that the windows censored in expose2.jpg are using the old Jaguar theme.
This isn't conclusive, maybe jpeg artifacts, but why the hell would he censor them anyways, why not just hide or close them.
And lastly, why hasn't the dock changed? It changed in 10.2, and it was cool, sure, but it's far from perfect. Surely the millions of dollars they put into R&D could have concocted something cooler-looking, if not more useful.
karma: ouch!
Let's all unite and say "wow!"
NOT!
Must-not-watch TV!
Give GyazMail a try. http://homepage.mac.com/gooichi/GyazMail/. It's a really nice, fast, Cocoa email client. Best of all, it doesn't display inline HTML!
No doubt some overcaffeinated KDE and GNOME hackers are cloning these features as we speak.
Panther will be alot better for smp Xserve boxes, and Java Servlets. (Java uses threading heavily as opposed to seperate processes). Yahoo even turned down Java for PHP because FreeBSD 4.x did not have good threading. Remember that previous versions of MacOSX used FreeBSD 4.2 and 4.4 for alot of the internals. SMP support in FreeBSD 4.x = Linux 2.0.
Macs have great UI's and if you use a computer as a workstation, a good as well as flexible gui is nice to have. Also apple uses better resolution icon's and heavy colors so its visual apealing to your eye's. Even the fonts are professionally done with heavy R&D so they are not too blury and easy to read. Try MacOSX for a week and kde, gnome and even Windows will be painfull.
Remember that Apple makes workstations, desktops, and laptops are for consumers so UI is extremely important unlike tradional unixies. They are not made for computer experts. Graphical artists are Apple's main customers who are obsessed with detail. The gui is as important if not more then stability for this market. Internals are not that important.
I have never used MacOSX but I was told that its not as stable as big iron unix's like Solaris or even Linux. It came out a little too early and was quite slow.
Both reliablity and speed improved as the OS matured. But its a hell of alot more stable then MacOS9 or Windows95x. The api's are more solid as well which make bugs less apearent for third party apps that use them.
http://saveie6.com/
It gets cloned into a popular kde theme?
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
Come on, there's no reason to have a 900MB mailbox, split it up for God's sake.
I would love to split it up, but being able to quickly dive into my archives to find past emails is extremely handy and important to me.
If I could find a good solution that would resolve this without keeping the mail in the email client, I'd do so. But I haven't seen one I like yet.
Jory
Well, OpenOffice's native file formats are basically an XML stylesheet .ZIPped with your information in text format...finally a file format that would be easy for other programs to use (it's an open standard) and file sizes are very reasonable too.
GIMP is impressive solely for the fact it's an open answer to Photoshop (c'mon, how many of you actually USE CMYK separations?) and it works. You have no excuse to use Photoshop Elements or Paint Shop Pro, because there is a Win32 version out there.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Umm, if you won't help them replicate the problem in their labs, how do you expect them to help? If you think telling them "Entourage chokes on 900MB mailboxes" will give them enough info to fix it, you obviously have never written a semi-complex piece of software in your life, dumass.
Thanks for the namecalling.
I am well aware that it would be helpful to send them the corrupted mailbox. But, there's a privacy issue at hand here. I don't feel comfortable giving out all that sensitive information about me.
Jory
And when you delete a message it automatically selects the next one for you. How nice. Annoys the **** out of me actually.
So how do you collapse the preview pane?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Mail.app has been around in one version or another since NeXT in 1988 or so.
It's had quite a long development cycle. In fact, there are still a few holdovers from the old days:
If you turn off the "Display Images" in HTML mail, you will see the purple squares that were seen quite often in Mail.app in NeXTSTEP 3.3
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
If you don't have a choice than you don't make a dicision. But if you don't make a decision than it's most likely I can write the program that will do that job instead of you. :)
Less is more !
between my Konqueror and the snapshots of Apple X
That's a hell of a decision to make from a very few images and comments of dubious origins.
Apple has almost always been very conservative with their version numbering schemes. They're not ones to jump to the next whole integer just for the glitz of it.
When 11.0 is released it will either be one of two things:
1. A complete re-write and restructuring of the underlying OS and APIs in a new language or for a new processor/system technology. The re-write will be totally invisible to the end user who will have the nearly the same exact user experience as the previous 10.x version (ala Sys 6 to Sys 7).
2. The entire OS will be redone, a completely new UI willbe developed and the entire Mac OS as you knew it will be tossed out the window. (ala MacOS 9 to MacOS X). Since this has only happened once in the almost 20 years of Macintosh existence, I would doubt VERY highly that this would occur on your desired upgrade timeline.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
I would expect to see something like what are changes in the kernel, drivers, system daemons and libraries - that what makes OS as OS.
But Mac users are so insane about look-n-feel they have in OSX that they think that that look-n-feel is their OS.
What are naive people. Perhaps they never saw OSX look-n-feel in GNOME/sawfish.
I may try to explain it by the fact that historically most of Mac users were graphic designers, who don't understand anything besides look-n-feel anyway. But then I don't understant how comes that designers love the system with UI, which design is delivered for them by Apple and it's delivered in a way they cannot really re-design it (theme changing is not re-designing), while they ignore OS (let's say Linux) with UI (let's say GNOME), which design they can re-design completely?!
All that OSX marketing looks like a brain-washing to me :(
Less is more !
If that is the case, then I didn't see any features (reading on various sites) that didn't convince me to upgrade (I want those XX feature!). :)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
So how do you collapse the preview pane?
Drag the split view separator to the bottom of the window, you dumbass. When you get within about 90 pixels of the bottom of the window, the preview pane will collapse.
Duh.
Another thing that gets to me about people wanting less eye candy is that I notice that after using a system that's as pretty as OS X to use is that other systems seem somehow inferior to it. It's not just with Aqua that I get this, either. I know that under the hood, Windows XP and Windows 2000 are very similar, but yet after using XP for a few months now, Win2k feels somehow worse, even if only for the differences in the amount of eye candy provided. The way I see it, we have plenty of processor power available these days to make a pretty, yet functional UI with lots of frilly animations and such, so why not use it? If I'm ever needing to do a job that requires every last ounce of power my system can eek out, most of these frilly extras can be turned off anyway, so it shouldn't really matter.
I, for one, am a huge fan of the graphical frilliness of OS X. That's the main reason I switched to a Mac when I wanted to buy a laptop. And I'm not even an art person (electrical engineering, instead).
Too fuzzy in my opinion, especially with the smaller text. The larger black text almost looks like it has a drop shadow. ClearType on XP looks sharp and smooth, unlike the too soft text of OS X.
Double-click on the divider bar.
four nine eighteen twenty-7 thirty-nine forty-7 fiftyeight sixty-nine seventy-9 eighty-8 one-hundred-and-nine one-twenty
QT looks native on all platforms. Looks like KDE on KDE, looks like Windows on Windows, looks like MacOS on MacOS.
OTOH, I wouldn't expect KMail to be consistent with MacOS usability guidelines. But then, neither are most apps.
I think the bar with the green indicators is monitoring the microphone, and is measuring ambient noise.
more and more /. posts, comments, and 'reviews' of
updates to OSs focus soley on the eye candy, and
ignore issues of whats changed under the hood to
actually make the OS better. It would be sad
indeed if we have reached the point in OS development where all that matters is if the
title bar is brushed metal or something else.
OS X has a more intuitive UI that gives the novice user more direct GUI control. I.e. dragging an actual file to the destination folder and launching it in OSX vs a wizard installing aliases in the Program menu and hiding the meat in C->Program Files->Manufacturer->Meat. OSX seems, if not more stable, more under the user's control than XP. If I force quit in OSX, the app dies. If I End Task in XP the program might quit, might zombify, and might display "This program is not responding..." OSX harbors instant sleep and shut-down. XP seems mired with shutting down, restarting, and their ilk.
XP is stronger in the compatibility department; it's great reading about a nifty new widget without worrying about a Mac version. The hardware support is amazing, opening the way to affordable DIY boxes. In peak speed the x86 platform thrashes Apple's offerings. Wizards, while condesending, do simplify certain tasks. Hardware is cheap and selection is great. System reponsiveness lets you spend less time staring at pretty UI bits and more time in the apps you enjoy. Did I mention hardware? Software is plentiful, with myriad choices. The UI may not be as polished, but it gets the job done. The task bar>>the dock.
While I love OSX and Ive's designs, they can't mitigate the price, performance, and compatibility deficiencies of Apple's product line. XP may not be as elegant, fun, or polished, but I'm learning to circumvent shortfalls and enjoy what the x86 platform has to offer.
-----
In response to a person who said he switched to XP after being a Mac user and using OS X:
_You switch to XP because you finally get an operating system that isn't a complete piece of shit?_
Sure, Death, some people judge operating systems because of whatâ(TM)s underneath, and in the case of OS X, that would be Unix. Some get a woody just hearing the name âoeunixâ and itâ(TM)s enough to give the entire OS respectability. Still others seem to judge an OS on nothing more than eye-candy appeal, which in this case would be Aqua. But having used the âoeclassicâ Mac OS for years, and XP and OS X since their inception, if what grabs you is stability then XP is far more stable than OS X. If you like eye candy then use Luna or one of those theme-switching programs and dress up XP like a cheap whore if you want, or dress it down and get some performance back. XP gives you a lot of ways to trim the fat. OS X tries to lock all that stuff in. Hell, you canâ(TM)t even turn off the transparency, all of the anti-aliasing or change the frigginâ(TM) font used in the Finder.
XP excels in both categories: stability and customization. With Aqua and OS X there are very few built-in ways to escape the eye candy, and while Unix may stay up and running, apps crash at an alarmingly frequent rate. And then thereâ(TM)s the dreaded beachball that makes its appearance all too frequently.
OS 9 isnâ(TM)t at stable as XP but when youâ(TM)re working with core graphics apps such as Photoshop or Illustrator the stability is fantastic â" better than OS X. And the performance, it goes without saying, is far superior to OS X which hasnâ(TM)t met an app yet that it couldnâ(TM)t bring to its knees. But thatâ(TM)s only part of the story. Iâ(TM)ve got XP and OS 9 at work and I still prefer to work in OS 9 for many reasons and the #1 reason is interface. If Apple did one thing right these past 18 years it was evolving an interface that in many ways was superior. Okay, okay. Iâ(TM)ve since learned that Windows has a lot of great features and some UI tricks of its own that are very good. But compared to OS 9, OS Xâ(TM)s interface is a frigginâ(TM) nightmare. Apple has devolved the interface. Itâ(TM)s a bloated kludge which might work just fine for listening to iTunes while Rip/Mix/Burning but is highly inadequate for serious graphics work.
I donâ(TM)t think any of these OSâ(TM)s is a âoecomplete piece of shitâ but there certainly is one that requires the user to put up with an excessive amount of crap.
Huh? An injection of facts and truth to support a logical conclusion? That doesn't belong here; this is Slashdot!
The circle of theft is supposed to go Xerox->Apple->Microsoft->KDE. Didn't you know that? How dare you suggest the circle be broken!
"Sufferin' succotash."
mail.app desperately needs to be able to thread messages in a mailbox by subject also.
I would love to split it up, but being able to quickly dive into my archives to find past emails is extremely handy and important to me.
If I could find a good solution that would resolve this without keeping the mail in the email client, I'd do so. But I haven't seen one I like yet.
How about just exporting the messages to the file system? (drag and drop!) Each message becomes an EML document. The only drawback is that you lose the attachment.
The activity viewer is a nice GUI improvement over the Process Viewer in the Jaguar Utilities folder (which is just a simple GUI for ps). This will make a nice helper for telephone tech support people trying to get grandma's computer problem licked. Note that the title bar of this window isn't "metal" or "blue courderoy" as we know them today. Looking at other screen shots this appears to either be a tip off that these are fake or an indication of a subtle interface theme evolution.
Expose' looks like a neat feature but probably more complex than most people will want to deal with. I'm also curious how the corner activation behavior will work with multiple screens.
The one panel Finder window looks like a very cool user interface improvement to tackle problems of novice users ("I have to dig so deep to get to my home folder" and "why can't I have a simple desktop like OS 9") The new highlighting method (blue rounded rectangle around the filename) looks like a nice eye candy improvement.
System Preferences has gotten rid of ColorSync, My Account, and Login Items. Combined Desktop and Screen Savers. Combined mouse & keyboard. Added a Print & Fax icon. Added icons for Security and Expose'. Hopefully this indicates a trend of trying to integrate tools from the Utilities folder into the System Preferences.
While all of these are nice changes (and I will be first in line to buy my copy), I don't think these changes alone are compelling justifications of a large upgrade price for an experienced user. I hope Apple will backport any security and bug fix updates for Panther back to Jaguar for those users who don't find the upgrade makes sense.
Non, c'pas Ãa!
If you temporarily switch your language, it also switch the decimals, at least on my setup (just tried it with Process Viewer.app in 10.2.6).
Alexandre http://enkerli.wordpress.com/
The NeXT interface was far better than Aqua as well, in my opinion. I'd love to have the option to make OSX look and act like either.
will one of these do?
http://swizcore.com/SS/macOSX.php
Thanks.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Steve Jobs come on stage, talks about lots of nifty new stuff for a long while, then prepare to go away, turn back to face the crowd...
"Oh, and one more thing, I almost forgot to talk about Panther..."
Audience yawns, somebody yells "We already saw the sceenshots!"
Steve looks a little bit disoriented "euh, yes, hum"...
But quickly recovers "Oh, and one more thing, we have at the back a demonstration machine of the new PowerMacs coming to market next month, you are really going to shit in your pants with these"
A few Apple guys come on stage with a machine described by Steve as a dual G5 (970) 2GHz, audience yawns, somebody yells "Yes, we have known for THREE BLOODY DAYS".
Steve positively looks finished, his face looking down, his speech notes fall from his hands, the lights on stage dim out while he slowly turns to exit, he advances near the back of the stage, and stops!
A spot lights up on him, his hunched body straightens up, he turns back to face the crowd with a small smile on his face, advance to the podium with long strides and start speaking:
"You will have to excuse me but I almost forgot this one LAST thing due to ship in two month."
Curtains open, revealing another machine which Jobs describes as a dual PPC G5 (970) 2.5GHz with more bells and whistles than you can shake a stick at to an audience that stays here gobsmacked, not believing what they see.
After having written this I guess I will be labeled a deluded Mac Zealot but the truth is that while MacOSX makes me drool (figuratively of course) I never owned a Mac myself but if I was in Steve Jobs position with a long string of surprises at previous keynotes and with a new architecture that cannot be too surprising in itself given how badly it is needed and expected I probably would manufacture some rumours and faked leaks to dull people's expectancy into a big surprise and then I would use a wild card to shock and awe (to reuse an already overused term) the audience by its unexpectedness as much as by its intrinsic quality. Of course this is assuming that Apple does have such a card up its sleeve.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
At relatively large type sizes (at least 11 pt or so) I agree that OS X is pretty spiffy. However, try going to sfgate.com, for one example. The bulleted subheadlines will look either fuzzy or crooked, depending on whether they get antialiased or not. On XP they look much better to me, although again that could just be the higher-res screen.
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
Why oh why does Apple insist on making everything look techno like brushed steel real devices? If I can afford an Apple I'll buy myself a Breitling watch.
Whatever happened to improved usability?
but still the old crappy half implemented document orientated interface that used on most computers.
All current GUIs are little more than rehashes of work done by Xerox 30 years ago.
Doesn't anybody have any _better_ ideas? Is the mouse actually an improvement on a well designed keyboard interface? Are icons really a good idea?
Have we already, after just a few tries, invented the perfect user interface and all that's left to do is a bit of prettification?
What is crazier then the images is the fact that those of us going to WWDC next week are going to pay Apple up to 2 grand to let us drink their kool-aid. .............and get to talk directly to the engineers, marketing, etc. But hey.
And as the parent poster I'll let you make your own conclusions. Most of these could mean anything or nothing.
/Twinkle
1. You can actually make out TFT 'subpixel' antialiasing on the text, which seems consistent in all shots.
2. Doesn't the Mail toolbar item icon seem an odd choice for 'Export'?
3. In the activity monitor, Process Name and the actual items aren't aligned the same way.
4. The Apple menubar still have stripes.
5. Small versions of the scrollbars are used in the Activity Monitor. This doesn't seem justified.
6. At a similar note, the popup button that says All Processes is also the small control version that would normally (in current MacOSX) be displayed if you are using the small version of the toolbar. Which apparently isn't the case because all other toolbar items are full size (32x32 pixels).
7. Mail.app has a Metal-styled split view control, but the rest of the window isn't Metal.
Actually I go back and forth between the SSNext and a classic theme I found. It does help. But it's not all there. No taskswitching off the top bar with the classic theme. No windowshading. And you'll notice that, although the themes can change the look of the titlebar widgets, they can't change their position. :(
Apple made fun of MS for years for their idiotic practice of putting the close button next to the others, instead of on the opposite end of the bar where it should be, and then all of a sudden adopts the same idiotic practice and apparently hardcodes it so the themes can't change it. Ugh.
Oh well, like I said, it's still pretty good, it's just frustrating it's less than it should be.
Actually now that I'm thinking about it, I'm sure I read about a way to make those damn metal apps behave, maybe I can find that again... might as well fix as much as I can.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
just encrypt your mailbox before you send it to them.
With an app as buggy as Mail.app is, I don't understand why they haven't released a maintenence update already?
Actually, Mail.app has been updated. Thru the System updates, (as far as I know).
As a side note with the SPAM filtering...
It just kills me that people applaud Apple for adding 'features' to their OS and when MS does the same thing, they call it bloatware.
If this was a Microsoft feature, we would be seeing posts about them killing off the third party SPAM filter market.
Apple truly has more priorities in OSX than a SPAM filter, so I also hope that there are tons of bug fixes as well.
A better precedent for your argument is the canonical Lotus vs. Borland case, in which case it was ruled that a menu system was not artistic expression protected by copyright. Note that the first trial judge ruled against Borland, saying words like "Cut" and "Paste" could be changed to, e.g., "Snip" and "Dupe." Had his ruling stood, we'd have had to learn a new menu system for every software company, raising the barrier of entry for new software companies who would have had to invent new words and keyboard shortcuts for "File/Open" = Ctrl-O, and innovation would be even more stifled than it already is. Can you imagine shopping for cars if each company had a different mapping for left pedal = break, right pedal = gas?
You tell me how "whilst" differs from "while," and I'll stop calling you a pretentious jackass.
Neither of these 'problems' occur when you use a UFS formatted drive.
Damn right it is! It's exaserbated by the fact that if you have "Show Info" checked for your desktop, under your drive icon it displays your available space. But only *ever* refreshes when you double click it's icon. Result? I ran out of disk space completely during a massive Fink download and suddenly things started getting screwy, but I had no idea why because I still "had" 800mbs left. I reboot, and, to my horror, stuff loses its preferences, including those managed by System Preferences itself (display resolutions, title bar icons...).
What the hell sort of behaviour is that? You don't even get a warning that your disk drive is low, let alone some message text reading:
"Please reboot your system so it can finish deleting your preferences"
Sounds like classic Unix-style sloppy programming.
Classic MacOS generally didn't have problems like this because the coding guidlines encouraged paranoid checking of return vals for errors. Sadly, practices like that are often seen as "bloat" in the Unix world.
Whoops! Sorry. I stopped drinking the kool-aid. Unix is a great feature to have on Macintoshes! Yes, it really is!
Actually, I think you're simply posting personl opinion and arguing personal preference more than anything concrete.
.tmp, while leaving the rest alone, for example? With no command line whatsoever, and no really good file manager, this is rather difficult. (Writing an Applescript to do it isn't exactly a user-friendly option either.)
I found MacOS9 much less than a "well-refined user interface". Why? Well, let me list a few items that come to mind:
1. When MacOS boots, only some extensions are shown loading up (with the associated puzzle piece icons). Why are some hidden while others get icons? Any logic to it whatsoever? Why is there no way to find out what one is during the boot sequence? As it is, one has to go to extensions manager and match up the picture to an item description to discover what it is.
2. MacOS lacked a good file management tool/utility. Want to delete all files in a given folder that start with a4 and end with an extension of
3. MacOS lacked a number of Internet-related tools. Personal web sharing in OS9 was far from "robust", for example. FTP or telnet, non-existant. OS X is light-years ahead in this arena.
4. MacOS numerical error codes were far from user-friendly or steps "forward in usability". Error 192 in Launcher? Not very intuitive.
5. The often-used "trick" of making an action happen only when the mouse button is held down for more than a couple seconds isn't obvious at all. One never really knows if holding the button down on an object will accomplish something or not. (Well, not until you try it and memorize the fact that it's useful for a specific item.)
Personally, I think the brushed metal "theme" looks pretty slick in programs like iTunes. I might nor care for it if EVERY program I used in OS X had brushed metal all over it, but it's fine for Apple's own commerical apps. Maybe it'll become a quick identifier than you're using an Apple-branded app?
http://saveie6.com/
Can anyone familiar with Mac OS X explain why the virtual memory column in the activity meter screenshot has rather high numbers?
http://www.deskmod.com/panther/actmonitor.jpg
If virtual memory represents page file / swap partition access, wouldn't this slow things down a lot? Especially if there was only one disk in the box.
The screenshots look nice, although the look does not appear to have changed much since 10.2
Jobs claims he desires a fifteen year life span AT LEAST for OS X. I can see that - Cocoa is extremely portable and powerful. It is also the most natural development environment I have ever used aside from Smalltalk. I would bet that Apple is going to include a host of other features besides what we have seen here today, including upgraded Darwin (probably based off FreeBSD 4.8, maybe even based off FreeBSD 5.0 (or 5.1?) which would be sweet). I would bet that there will be further substantial refinement in speed on exisiting hardware (QE capable anyway) just like we have seen with EVERY UPGRADE of OS X.
All the trolls love stories like this - they can come on over and call us fanboys etc, but Apple is truly kicking ass nowadays. All they have to look forward to is Longhorn, eventually, and with it a possible and probable end to a lot of computer fun. It''s misplaced rage. While they suck the tiny, syphilitic cock of Ballmer they kick out at anything they can. It tastes foul!
Er, no. No way does your machine compare to the current Mac high end.
Your single 1.5 GHz P4 beats two 1.4 G4? No way. Plus a top of the line Mac will have 2 GB of RAM. And an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128 MB, which will leave your Voodoo 3 in the dust by a healthy order of magnitude.
Heck, the worst graphic card you can buy in a Mac is a Radeon Mobility (an iBook), which is likely still better than your Voodoo 3.
Now, you can argue that your current machine is fast enough, and that the fastest Wintel box is faster than the fastest Mac today. But today's fastest Macs really are quite speedy, and extremely productive. And in about 48 hours...
My video compression blog
Don't worry, you never have to feel sorry for Steve Jobs. He's a major league asshole who just happened to know Wozniak.
What's the difference between Steve Jobs and an asshole?
The asshole isn't a fucking billionare!
What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
OSS works better when all software is OSS, but CSS works better when BSD-style OSS projects exist alongside CSS. Niether side benefits from the current situation (FlameProofing: this is a very simple generalization): GPL-style Open Source alongside ommercial CSS (or commercial CSS alongside GPL-style OSS, whichever you prefer) simply fosters mistrust and forces OSS developers to waste resources on copying popular CSS programs.
Game theory, folks. Nobody wins.
Statistically speaking, there's a 99.998% chance that my IQ is higher than yours. Get over it.
or just $ fink install mutt assuming you have Fink installed.
YHBT
Powermail whips the pants off any other Mac OS X email app. www.ctmdev.com
> When MacOS boots, only some extensions are shown loading up (with the associated puzzle piece icons). Why are some hidden while others get icons?
.tmp, while leaving the rest alone, for example?
Because some extensions don't load "init" code at startup. If the extension does contain init code and there's no icon displayed, the programmer of the extension didn't bother to include the icon routine. This is not the Operating System's fault.
OS X doesn't show you all the code that loads at startup during the boot progress dialog either. Compare booting in verbose mode to what you get in the progress dialog.
>2. Want to delete all files in a given folder that start with a4 and end with an extension of
Command-F for find file:
- find files whose name contains
- in location X
Drag search results to trash.
>3. MacOS lacked a number of Internet-related tools. Personal web sharing in OS9 was far from "robust", for example. FTP or telnet, non-existant. OS X is light-years ahead in this arena.
So *personal* web sharing isn't as full featured as Apache? Wow, what a shock!
>4. MacOS numerical error codes were far from user-friendly or steps "forward in usability". Error 192 in Launcher? Not very intuitive.
Guess what - OS X still has numerical error codes, too.
>5. The often-used "trick" of making an action happen only when the mouse button is held down for more than a couple seconds isn't obvious at all. One never really knows if holding the button down on an object will accomplish something or not. (Well, not until you try it and memorize the fact that it's useful for a specific item.)
Like spring-loaded folders? Or contextual menus in the Dock? OS X has these features as well. Also, which is more intuitive for accessing a contextual menu -- holding down the mouse button for an extended period of time, or control-clicking?
Apple made fun of MS for years for their idiotic practice of putting the close button next to the others, instead of on the opposite end of the bar where it should be, and then all of a sudden adopts the same idiotic practice and apparently hardcodes it so the themes can't change it. Ugh.
I have never intentionally clicked the yellow minimize button. When I want to minimize a window I just double-click the title bar. What usually does happen to me is that I accidently minimize a window I want to close (by double clicking the title bar while trying to find the red gum-drop).
OK, don't send them your mailbox. By doing so you are also giving up the right to complain about them not fixing it. So please, SHUT THE HELL UP.
they will have an OSX skin. i supose you could also use another skin if you like. so in the end, yes it will look like any other native app
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
nt means no text.
I've only done it once I think. But it does cause me to have to slow down and be more careful - every time I get near those buttons I have to slow down and concentrate on hitting the right one, because an error could be pretty catastrophic. Using X11 I set WindowMaker as my WM usually, and the difference is actually noticeable - there's no slowdown.
On windows I usually click on the far left and then choose from the menu, which takes a fraction of a second longer. These are small things, but exactly the kind of small things that Apple used to really get, and they do make a difference.
BTW got rid of metallic junk (on most programs) and got a windowshader. Still not perfect, but much better. ;)
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Safari at the very least does a fine job of rendering sfgate.com and just about every other site out there as far as fonts are concerned. Internet Explorer and Mozilla/Netscape both cause certain smaller fonts to not be rendered anti-aliased, so they look crappier, but I certainly don't see any crooked or fuzzy fonts -- just a few small jagged ones in those Carbon browsers.
I have tended to not like Windows XP's ability to render fonts quite as much. It certainly looks better than fonts in Windows Me, 98, and 95, but that is not saying very much. It tends to ignore kerning and ligatures from time to time, making some fonts which depend heavily upon them simply ugly to read at certain point sizes. OS X on the other hand, while sometimes making fonts look a little too fuzzy, at least typically gets kerning and ligature features right when rendering.
Of course, in a terminal window, I still use a bitmapped, aliased, monospace font for best legibilty over the course of a long day. Anti-aliasing doesn't always lend itself to lots of small terminal windows on the same screen at the same time...
My two pesetas.
The Site is down.. SHark Attacked i guess. anyone got mirrors?
That's exactly what I'm wanting.
I'm a CS student that's getting some money from the folks for a new laptop, and I'm awfully inclined to go with the Apple. Way I figure it, my laptop will run Linux no matter what I get (I'm primarily a Linux user (Gentoo usually, gonna play with Debian a bit), and a Windows user secondary). I figure an Apple laptop would provide some new interesting toys with OS X, while I can still use dual-boot into a Linux distrib.
Might I ask, what PPC Linux are you running? I know Gentoo runs on PPC, but some of the forum posts seem to indicate that it might not be the best PPC option.
Serious graphic work rocks on OSX, while XP is a schizophrenic hunk of bad code. XP is the Elantra of OS, its supposed to compete with Mercedes, but it's still a Hyundai. OSX has been stable since I bought my Powerbook, and ever since my company decided to intall XP its been problem after problem, it seems it doesn't play nice with Win98. As for UI tricks, Windows still has Shut Down under the start button, the edit, copy, paste buttons move constantly. On some apps, undo works, on some it doesn't. Oh yeah, and Adobe Acrobat acts like its on crack. As for OS9, it was dear to my heart, and I still use it on my old iMac from time-to-time, but OSX is a much better OS and its been much more stable, however I will admit that OSX is the new model, and therefore has its problems while OS9 has settled into a nice complacency. But to compare OSX, OS9 to XP (don't you dare remove a drive, register me!, what the hell is a driver? BSOD) please don't even bother.
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
what part of "historical linguistics" do you not understand?
"well regulated" means "well trained"
I run Debian. I haven't had any problems. The best thing you can do for Linux on PPC, period, is install the benh kernel from the Linux/PPC website, and then make sure you install the Apple-specific utilities. (You can get a nice list from 'apt-cache search ibook', 'apt-cache search powerbook', or just googling around for the laptop and distribution of your choice.)
:/ ) I won't say "don't use Gentoo", though, since I've never used it myself; this is just what I've seen of other people's systems, and I have heard many good reviews.
I'll always recommend Debian because I've used it, liked it, and always had good experiences with it. (Stale packages aren't as much of an issue if you use testing or unstable.) I've heard good and bad things about Gentoo, not too much bad except that the default compile flags sometimes tend towards overoptimization; I've seen Gentoo build broken python before for AMD systems, for example. (This is especially ironic since portage is based on python.
The real lesson there, though, is make sure you really, really know what you're doing if you insist on building your system from scratch. ^_^ This goes double on an arch you don't know, and really for any non-x86 arch, since they don't get as much testing (less users). Also, a binary distribution is usually good for your first distro on a given architecture, since you can see how it sets up important things like boot setup and compare it to what you read about that arch's boot process.
What's the general theme of misfortune in the Gentoo PPC forum threads you've read? It may be just a Linux PPC thing, not a Gentoo thing.
Here is a mirror I created: http://animefreak.arkaic.com:9000/ppcmac/
Feel free.
First off, thanks for the detailed reply. That's the kind of first-hand accounts I'm interested in hearing.
As for the Gentoo PPC threads, some of it has been related to driver support, while some of it has been related to problems with things like the LiveCD.
On my x86 machines, I like Gentoo, but there are some things I definitely don't like. Most of us on the Gentoo forums that use Thinkpad 600E's have never been able to get sound working with ALSA, but Red Hat 8.0 was able to get ALSA and the Thinkpad to cooperate. I haven't had any problem with broken builds on my AMD, but I do think some tasks are needlessly complex. I also don't really need bleeding edge packages - recent minor updates to KDE and Xfree has given me some less than desirable behavior. :)
With all this whining about the price of "point" release, Apple should take a page from the Sun playbook and call Panther "Mac OS X 3.0" not "Mac OS X 10.3"
///" argument as evidence why Apple won't market anything big as version 3.
I'm suprised that no one has sprung the "Apple
Of course we know the real reason the Apple 3 stunk and that was because it was a product that was both phyiscally and logically unstable ("To reseat the chips, hold the machine 2-3 inches above your desk and drop it." WTF?)
I think Apple has gotten over this superstition in its marketing department. Of course, lets hope that the decimal points aren't indicative of price jumps (rightmost = free/$20, middle = $100, leftmost = $1000/you must buy a new machine)
OOG not post for long time because Slashdot all-CAPS filter prevent posting from stone age teletype terminal. Latest cave bitch OOG dragged to cave for much cave sex have 802.11g-enabled laptop, so OOG can post from comfort of cave, as neighbor cave leave access point unsecured.
OOG never use such ungrammatical language as "Me" for first person nominative. However, OOG strongly agree that OSS UI generally need great improvement. OSS have great potential for UI innovation and improvement, but so far, potential largely wasted. (Aqua also have great potential but OOG find "brushed metal" too confusing to stone age eyes.)
OOG crack theme "designers" in head with Open Source CD!!!!
There's a new job at Apple, and in the second sentence of it's description it says:
e nt.woa/wa/jobDescription?RequisitionID=1978437
The position manages day to day publishing requirements such as image updates
here: https://jobs.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Employm
Ha!
I've read the various posts and I must say I disagree with almost everybody except the original poster about his mailbox problem -
:-), but it should NOT be considered "user's fault". The analogy that pops to my head now is the 2GB filesize limit on most 32bit filesystems - why exactly should a video-editing user be considered at fault if his video-recording goes past 2GB and he loses data? If "working around the limitations of the system" is the "one true way" of dealing with computers then why on earth did people work on creating filesystems that can exceed 2GB filesizes? If Mail.app will always choke on a 900MB file then Mail.app needs to be fixed. Or at the very least warnings inserted that will alert end users
(a) Mail.app does not specify any limit to mailbox size. Does it give warnings as you approach any filesize that it is unable to handle? "Warning! Mail.app is unable to properly handle mailbox sizes over and above XMB and you are now at X+1MB, please trim" --> if no such alert etc. appears, then why exactly *should* the user be expected to know beforehand "oh I shouldn't do this"? Without any published specification/limitation or in-use alerts then the only "acceptable" effect on the end-user should be a slowdown because, well, that's a pretty damn big mailbox file
(b) splitting up the files into smaller individual mailboxes is also not acceptable if Mail.app does not have a function that will allow for searching multiple mailboxes etc. as one single function. I know the old Eudora etc. had this ability - does Mail.app?
(c) Mail.app also has other problems. It's IMAP functioning is primitive and at my workplace woe betide the poor user who tries to connect to the mailserver without pre-specifying the default root path in his preferences (which incidentally cannot be done during the setup "wizard" (I don't know what the non-MS term is), so the user has to intentionally skip the "easy to use" setup sequence, and then manually configure/setup options. When absolutely every other IMAP client on other platforms can do it properly, this is unacceptable.
Right now, the two mail clients I most detest are Outlook and Mail.app.
*smack self*
Your 900MB error was on Entourage and not Mail.app? Wow I need to learn to read...
slink off unhappily
The screenshots of Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) have been removed at the request of Apple's legal department. We apologize for any problems caused to them, as we meant no harm by our actions. Watch the WWDC keynote this Monday for the official unveiling of Panther. Please do NOT mirror the original page here. If you have already done so, please remove it. At the very least, please remove the DeskMod/ModBlog mentions on the page. Thank you, David Gorman DeskMod & ModBlog
Deltron 3030 - Virus (music video)
Interesting complaint. I never noticed this myself, so I hit cmd-n about ten times in Safari to try to replicate the problem you experienced. Good news: I found a fix/work-around. All you have to do is pay attention to the windows and notice which one is covering the others. The window in front, is in front of all the others. It even casts a shadow on the windows below it!
Thanks for responding to my points/complaints about MacOS9. You make a good counter-argument.
I still say I'm not pleased with the MacOS9 startup sequence though. I can get much more information about what's actually going on in "verbose mode" of OS X. (EG. Say a CD-ROM driver doesn't initialize. In MacOS9, the most info one could see is a red X through an extension that failed to initialize the drive. On OS X, at least I could see some sort of message about the nature of the failure and possibly get a clue to fixing it. Things like a SCSI ID conflict should generate more than just a "failed to initialize" message.)
Also, using "find file" doesn't seem very intuitive when you already know perfectly well where the files are. All you want to do is select specific ones in a folder for deletion. Your trick may work ok, but it's lacking from a "user-friendliness" standpoint. (Also, I'm not familiar enough with MacOS Find File to say this for sure, but I don't recall it being extremely powerful in searching ability. I don't believe it takes wildcards like a Unix command line can? AKA. Search for a file starting with ari??3z.txt - so the 4th. through 6th. characters can be anything, but the remainder must all match.)
On Monday we will have more details on the guts and then we can comment on that.
Until then its just screen shots. What do you expect?
That's an interesting explanation, but it's not much more than a theory because Apple doesn't follow those rules.
System Preferences, it's not "data heavy", one doesn't write in it, yet it's aqua. IMO Preferences is more like a tool, it should be metal.
Preview: a tool. One doesn't enter any data or write in it. It's like Safari, a tool to view files. So it should be metal.
I could go on, but the main point is that this John Glenys is full of sh!t. I like metal on some apps, and for the most part I like what Apple has done with it, but to argue that Apple uses well-delineated usage guidelines for aqua and metal themes is ridiculous.
Grow up: corrupting mailboxes isn't the same as pure evil, and saying that a Microsoft product has a specific bug in it isn't the same as FUD. Did you miss the bit where yroJJory slagged off all the other mail programs as well?
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
I know it's annoying to buy hacks for things that once were built into the OS, but have you tried "WindowShades OS X"?
http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/wsx/
Who in the fsck modded up a post that had the word "Thanks" as the only substance in the content? You moderators must be smoking each others' shorts...
These guys are quick. The screenshots are no longer available by request of Apple's legal dept. This is the same as when the G5 was leak. Man I guess I have to get up pretty early in morning to beat these guys.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
.Mac has a preview of panther and it contains a finder that looks exactly like those in the leaked screenshots!
It seems like Expose has nice ideas for the advancement of the "virtual desktop" paradigm in Linux UI. KDE/Gnome developers will not have a hard time reimplementing the same functionality in their respective desktops, and I don't have to pay, nor upgrade my machine for the feature to be included. I think I'll stick with Linux in the future.
ok, so pass a law that nobody can buy a gun unless they are well trained. How would that go over with the NRA?
Reality has a liberal bias