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Sphere XP Makes GUI 3D
Cypherus writes "I came across a link for a 3d desktop environment. "The SphereXP is a 3D desktop replacement for Microsoft Windows XP. Taking the known concept of three-dimensional desktops to its own level. It offers a new way to organize objects on the desktop such a icons and applications. Check the videos and screenshots to get the idea.""
Does a 3D Gui mean I can walk through my spreadsheet?
Can I borrow your sig?
IMAGES & VIDEOS!!!
Let the melting begin...
Do people actually think these are EASIER to use than the traditional 2D/command line interfaces? Or is it just coolness?
Omnes stulti sunt.
Finally, the technology of the 1995 movie "Hackers" meets the present. ;-)
I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
I can imagine using this and always turning my monitor or my head so I can see the ones that aren't exactly lined up straight. Sorta like an older laptop LCD that loses brilliance when the angle's off. Since the desktop's concave, I'd also expect my windows to "slide" around toward the middle.
Of course, it might just be a matter of adjustment.
I really don't think the 3d desktop will be feasable until we have some form of useful, cheap, and easy to use 3D input device. Anyone work with this sort of thing?
Videos and screenshots in a slashdot article. Sure. That's going to work.
It's called Expose.
..two posts and it's slasdotted. Here is the Google Cache.
Why does /. ever bother posting links to images? We NEVER get to see them, the sites are already /.ed by the time we move our mouse to the link!
What I have yet to see on any sort of 3D gui, is a thought out plan. (If anyone has please link)
I would like to see some thought like a list of limitations that the 2D GUI paradigm currently has and how a 3D GUI could address these issues while not producing a huge long list of its own problems.
Until then, this looks cool, but is in no way a step forward, back, up or down. It's just kinda there.
-- taking over the world, we are.
Whoa, video and screenshots. That sites gonna die soon.
From what I can see of the thumbnails, this doesn't look that interesting... more like regular Windows Explorer panes set at slight 3D angles... I don't see anything like a paridigm shift or anything. Although I guess this wasn't intended as such..
[SIG] It's like putting a moose in the blender -- a recipe for disaster!
3 Dimensional interfaces like these (especially Suns new project) are just annoying. They don't represent any signficant increase in productivity, they aren't going to make your system easier to use - they just look cool, and that's enough to grab attention.
The downside of these interfaces is the ridiculously high processor and memory requirements. All that extra graphic manipulation comes at a price, and I for one don't see any reason to waste processor cycles. What I'd much rather see is somebody developing a faster, more lightweight UI that is a nice combination of OSX and Windows XP. One that chews up LESS memory (instead of more, like this), one that speeds things up.
Then I'll be impressed.
Looking at the screenshots, that just looks like something that would get in the way more than anything else.
But...why? I mean it's eye candy, but what functionality does it add?
I'd use a 3D desktop if it's useful, not because it looks fun to toy with for 15 minutes.
I used it last week for a day and was quite impressed. It isn't perfect, some major bugs, some missing features and a slow memory leak that requires you to stop and start it every hour or so. But very usable.
What I thought was most cool about it was that it is very close to something I have been saying I wanted for a long time, except that I want to rotate the 'world' around me using a foot controller. In any case Sphere might just be pointing the way to a new GUI paradigm we can use for real work, something other than the 'desktop'.
- -
Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
Imagine if someone came up with a VR desktop for linux that would work with those 3d goggles...you would finally have something jaw dropping to talk about that would be really cool. Instead of a clunky mouse, use a goggle to grab your windows with get this ...handles...not some silly virtual hand like in the olden crappy vr days...combine that with a virtual keyboard and youve really got something.
Next comes Superstring XP, which works in 26 dimensions.
I don't see how exactly that is supposed to be 3D, everything's on the same sphere surface except for the window that has focus. You could do the same thing with a large virtual desktop. Then there's the fact that when a window is on an angle you can't really read what's in it too well due.
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What about Sun's Project Looking Glass that's on their Java Desktop System?
Here's a link
Has anyone else noticed that the video's are literally video's of the monitor, and not captured by software?
I wonder how a desktop environment like this would affect software used to capture a users interaction with their desktop...
This (SphereXP) is almost painful to use. Not that it's a bad design (it's very interesting), but I've seen the videos from a while back (I'm working on something that competes along these lines, have to keep tabs...). Two things I would say to the coder: 1.) CSGL is no longer being developed. Switch to Tao (http://www.randyridge.com). 2.) Try and keep the amount of effort (moving around, switching tasks) to a minimum. Download the videos, you will see what I mean. Lots of bad clicking and scraping while moving around the sphere.
The biggest problem I've run into (again, I'm working on something in the 3D Desktop arena), is that in windows, you cannot jack the Paint APIs (easily). So you can't just grab a window and throw it into OpenGL. Additionally, you can't modify the source (closed-source) to grab the windows...Which I am attempting to rectify with some assembly code, but it's still a pain.
The nice thing about Tao? Cross-platform (somewhat). As for my program? It will be released after I finish the assembly.
I am John Hurt.
The download worked for me. Is the size on disk really 120 KB? I don't feel safe about running it.
http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/macwarriors/projects/3dosx /
i noticed this before and it never got mentioned on /. (did it?)
3D space on desktop mmm. Not very interesting till the actual desktop was 3D it is fun though but you could just as well work in a node/ composite flowchart system like programs like shake, flint etc and what would be good and better implemented history tracking in my OS
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I've been using this for some time now and like it a lot. Typically, the major problem with these applications is texture management - something that isn't an issue in the 2D world - and this one seems to do it very well on my ancient GeForce256. Once Longhorn comes out (:)) then this kind of thing will become more prevalent, if for no other reason than much of what you need to do it is built into the OS - video here. The other approach is not to make a desktop replacement, but create a while new platform.
This program is in desperate need of documentation, it's not exactly clear how you're supposed to do much of anything. I was able to get it to run, but I couldn't find any way to exit the program short of logging out of Windows.
Programs that expect to rewrite the rules of user interface should at least share a copy of the new rulebook.
Why not investigate some of the alternatives while the site is ./ed.
http://desk3d.sourceforge.net/
Sun's attempt
http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/A.Steed/3ddesktop/
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When you can waste clock cycles on crap like this. Long live the command line!
I have an old-fashioned pair of cardboard glasses with blue and red cellophane lenses that work really well with specially crafted images. Well they make the boobs stand out anyway...
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
Rooms3d is a very immense desktop environment that views each "room" as a folder, with clickable objects as the items in the folder.
For example, a cool-looking dungeon would be the Control Panel, and wooden crates would be display, hardware configuration, etc. Like I said it's very immense and thourough but extremely cool.
where's the valid research showing the time and effort put into usability studies regarding this? where are the documented usability testing and trials, including focus groups?
i wonder sometimes if people sit back and analyze their own projects, because this one seems to have relatively little benefit for any users, average or power user. the simple fact is 3d or eye candy doesn't make a person use the computer faster or easier. it's a balancing act between prividing ascetically pleasing environments that function easily
- tristan
http://www.hamar.sk/sphere/
Overview: The SphereXP is a 3D desktop replacement for Microsoft Windows XP. Taking the known concept of three-dimensional desktops to its own level. It offers a new way to organize objects on the desktop such a icons and applications. Check the videos and screenshots to get the idea.
The project was under "heavy" construction, but now it is open for testing. Everybody is free to try it out. Every response (sphere@hamar.sk) is appreciated.
Please keep in mind that project is more of a vision. Due to the limitations of Windows I'm not able to do everything as I would like to. I know it is still not very usable, but I'll try to make it work as I can. I hope when there's time for it, this theory will have a satisfying implementation.
http://www.hamar.sk/sphere/info.htm
PROJECT INFO
IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS THE COMMAND LINE....
The interaction human-computer has gone a long way since the invention of personal computers. In the beginning there was only a simple command-line interface (CLI), which was not a very intuitive interface. The only widely used device that you could use to interact with the computer was the keyboard. People needed a lot of skills to operate computers. New ways have been opened with the evolution of hardware and software. Inventions such as mouse or graphical user interface (GUI) changed the way we interact with the computer and allowed massive spread of computers. Working with the computer got easier, faster and more effective. The two-dimensional graphical user system is now established as the preferred interface for most users. It can be found in any of the major operating systems like Microsoft Windows, Mac OS and the X Window System. There has been made only a little progress since its invention. Declining hardware prices and increasing hardware capabilities allow us to make the next step and make interfaces more intuitive and more effective.
A core part in creating any new environment is to provide a metaphor for intergrating visual elements into a recognizable and copmprehensive framework. The name of the application is "The Sphere". This name encapsulates the main idea behind the project. I'm not trying to simulate reality. The main inspiration comes from the way we recognize reality. My design is based on the human perception of the world.
THE CONCEPT
The Sphere is theory of an 3D workspace. The SphereXP is an example of the theory. The environment is user-centered. It is represented by a sphere. The user is exactly in the middle of it. All objects are situated around the user. He can easily turn around and manipulate with the objects. All the objects that users are used to having on their regular desktop are now integrated in a three-dimensional environment. . There are icons and applications. They can be move around according to some rules. You can bring them closer to the view port or send them back.
THE APP
Too much freedom of movement may cause disorientation. Therefore I chose to apply strict rules for moving in the environment. The user cannot go outside the designated area - the sphere. I call this type of navigation spherical. The view port is always facing apart from the sphere center. Once the user sets the distance from the center, the view port can be only rotated around it. This makes the navigation easier and prevents the user to get to an angle where he cannot see anything. A simple tool is used to ensure effective navigation and to prevent the user to get lost. It is a minimized version of the sphere situated in the right bottom corner. It provides an overview of where the view port is pointing and where all the objects are.
Limited control of the layout
The only thing that the user is allowed to change is the background image. This ensures that this environment will have the same functionality and layout on every com
That says it all...
You're old school? I beta tested the motherf***ing abacus!
The site is pretty thoroughly slashdotted. I grabbed it a few days ago, so... mirror. You'll want one of the sphere zips and the cgsl library.
My server
You don't need a 3d viewer to see that that site has been slashdotted!
Here's the google link: http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:s33DucbWp6wJ: www.hamar.sk/sphere/+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
In 3d rendering enviroments and cad programs, a sharp and tough learning curve is anticipated and acceptable. But in web and file browsers it is not. File and web browsers must be intuitive. Ittuitiveness is a myth however, there is no human instinct that associates double-clicking with running a 'program'. It is merely congruent with expected behavior. Same with volume controls where increasing volume is anticlockwise. If I made a volume dial where increasing volume was clockwise, people would be righteously pissed because it clashed with expected behavior.
And that, in a nutshell, is why it will fail.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Heh. Right before I saw this response, I stuffed a paper envelope full of old-fashioned 1040 forms, so I guess Macs aren't even good for that, huh?
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remember 3dwm anyone? looks like its dead now. 3dwm website
I tried this out last week, it relatively sucked. Framerate was about 0.5 per second, visual defects were everywhere, just seemed like an interesting concept wrapped in bare proof-of-concept code.
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One thing about this GUI that makes a lot of sense is the massive amount of desktop space it offers. Right now, I have 6 desktops in Linux in single head mode, and 12 in Dual head mode. This is an alternate form of multidimensional GUI personality. I recently got the 3DDesktop switcher and really do like it. More for it's gee-whiz aspect, but it does have some usefullness to it.
:)
Now, back to the subject at hand. This desktop is a sphere. Literally, with the user's viewport as the "center" of view. The reason this is nice because there is also depth taken into account. So you have lots of desktop space in the form of layers, and overall spherical realestate.
In short the inside of the sphere has a "size" in which the user can place many layers or use a spherical plane and place things oriented as a normal 2D desktop viewport might be, just you can look a little to the right, left, up, or down, and you have more. As for the increase in productivity. I could use this in Linux, really easily. Two spheres to replace my entire 12...oh..yeah.
--SuperBug
...I wonder if the digital version has the same problem of all the piles of documents spilling to the floor now and again?
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
This is Uni... oh, wait... nevermind...
No, seriously, I just come here for the articles.
they all seem to be pushing the 2D paradigm into 3D. No one is really "using" 3D
i get what you mean and i agree
however:
it seems to me that what you describe probably wont be feasible until we are using something other than a flat screen as our display, donchathink?
(and i realize this is not necessarily the case but it would have to be a dramatically new paradigm and i cant imagine an alternative)
i suspect that the innovation is going to have to come from a hardware / input side of things to get that going. in the mean time though, im glad that theyre pushing things forward and trying it out (i only saw a brief glimpse cause of slashdotting but seems interesting from a research pov at least)
a
is that it is confined to a 2D screen. 3D will not be mainstream until the physical interface between machine and pathetic humans is changed.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
The first obvious thing many people point out is that a 3D interface needs a 3D input device.
The most comfortable input device in my opinion is one of those data-glove things which let you use your hands.
I'm thinking that if you start out with a few specialized applications like a painter program or a sculpting program (3D modelling), maybe integrate the interface into games then you might later extend it to general interfaces after people get used to them.
By the way, i started making one of those gloves in highschool, only got to the stage of moving the fingers and basic grabbing, didn't have time to implement movement sensors, but i'm thinking you could make one work for around the price of a cordless mouse...
Just hit esc ;)
I used it exactly as long as as it took to figure out how to disable the thing, as, I suspect, did most people. Presumably in order to claim more users, they made it damned hard to disable.
Truth is, the fastest way to interface with a computer is still a keyboard. (Well, for *almost* any task, with exceptions such as manipulating graphics or sorting through a large number of similar files with meaningless names by hand.)
Until that changes, my "desktop" will be nothing more than a name for the background which peaks through the gaps between xterms.
Although it's probably not needed anymore, there's a mirror of the software, movies and shots at PlanetMirror. Available via HTTP or FTP. They also have the .NET Framework available.
We already have "3d" in a sense in LInux and WIndows (because windows overlap) and it is a pain in the butt. I have a hard enough time with 2D, Windows overlapping and the need to constantly move windows around, resize them, minimize all them to get to the desktop (!), and whatnot. That's why I like Ion. It's exactly 2 dimensions; doesn't allow overlaping. User fiendly to the max.
After watching the video I'd have to say that this looks about as useful as Marky Mark's third niple.
When GUIs go 3D, only 3D people will use GUIs.
Is the BSOD 3D too?
Not sure if anyone has seen this but... Linux 3d add on [sourceforge.net] This program allows a 3d environment to appear when you want to change between virtual desktops... Once again looks cool... But useful? Not really...
Can be found here: http://www.aqua-soft.org/board/index.php?showtopic =5032
It's called Iex v0.2
"this is UNIX! "
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pry your eyes off the monitor for a second and look at your desk - yes the one supporting your cheese-puffs that runs neither KDE nor Gnome, it just sits there even when the power goes out. It's a damn mess -- it will take you the equivalent of thousands of cpu clock cycles to find anything on it. Imagine if you didn't have to worry about things being behind or beneath other things, imagine if you could eliminate a whole "dimension" of clutter. It would be inherently more organized and easier to use.
are you getting the picture?
ôó
As soon as I saw this on slashdot, I thought I'd quick take a look at it before it got swamped - I actually got all the images and videos downloaded before the site went down due to /. effect.
.torrent of it up for download, but realized that I didn't have any tracker to post it to if I did make one...
I was thinking I could put a
Perhaps Shalsdot needs to look into providing a public tracker for backups of video/images/etc. from sites they link to.
--The Rizz
"The girl who swears no one has ever made love to her has a right to swear." --Sophia Loren
I find it interesting that the average score for posts on this topic is about 1.5.
I don't want new WAYS to use the existing functionality of my computer. I want new TOOLS, new things I can do that I could not do before, or things which were complex now made simple. I want my computer to understand spoken instructions in sentence form. I want to tell my computer " Find all of the image files in the computer where the majority color is orange". I want to tell my computer "Show me a list of all of the files on my computer which have been modified or accessed by a user process in the last 15 minutes." and get no system and log files as a result. I want my computer to actually know the purpose of each file its OS is built from. I want to ask it if anything is different between this bootup and last. WHY is the industry looking to add superfluous eyecandy to the same functionality?
It's like being sold a 1930 Ford with a new, prettier body for 2004 but still having the old rattletrap engine.
Those apps that need 3d will HAVE it (Quake) Find ways I can do things FASTER with less effort!!
Much like anything else I've seen Microsoft make / do, this is NOT their original idea. I saw this feature demoed on a Linux machine at Comdex last winter.
Here's a link to a story about the linux feature.
Ah! Can't post!: "Database maintenance is currently taking place. Some items such as comment posting and moderation are currently unavailable."
Oh well, I'll keep trying.
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oh i wish i had patented this when i though of it 4 years ago >8)
Wonder if he needs a hand, seeing as i was too lazy to implement it myself.
Off-topic, but i wonder how many ideas are come up with independantly by people all over the world. I have had this thing happen a few times, think of something cool, dont act on it, 3 or 4 years later someone else implements it....
I agree with other posters - how does this make life easier on a 2d display? It's just another novelty. I think what would be truely cool and revolutionary would be the ability to open and work with application windows in midair OUTSIDE OF THE LCD/CRT - letting the size of a room be the only limitation. Imagine being able to examine source in a window as big as your desk... and being able to drag and drop windows as you would with everyday things
But I do know that once we have more immersion, such as with the body, in terms of input devices, I think we'll see a lot more development in this area.
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A long time ago, c. MacOS 7 or 8/PMac 8500, I played with a 3d fly-through interface. It was cool - you could use it to fly through the folders in your file system. Background was black, and there were folders hanging in space. The closer the folder, the higher it was in the hierarchy. Anyone recall this? What was it called?
I am not a Macintosh/Apple expert,
True enough.
Computer experts use Windows XP Home edition.
Whaaat? Wouldn't they use Professional Edition?
*ducks*
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
I think research in this area is great. I do not believe that we have currently found the be-all, end-all of user interfaces. I mean the metaphor came about when display technology was far more primitive than today, which imposed limits to what could be done. Most of the enhancements to this metaphor have been making things prettier. We see higher resolution icons, with more colours, drop shadows, animations, etc. No real change to the fundimental way things work.
That's because, so far, we haven't found a better, more intutitve way to do things. That doesn't mean that there isn't a better way we haven't yet discovered. While this probably isn't it, that doesn't mean it isn't useful research along those lines. I really do believe that a better interface is possible by exploiting the 3d capabilities of modern systems. I, of course, don't know what it is or I'd be working to make it a reality, but experimental new interfaces like this is one way to work on finding out. Try it, see what's good, see what bad, try and revise, etc.
That's not new.
http://www.fresco.org/ (formerly known as Berlin)
http://www.3dwm.org/
I know it doesn't look like a viable alternative for a nice, sharp 2d
image, at least for now... But when the 3d part can be done in hardware,
and people think out nice interfaces, we might finally get some GUI like
in that ridiculous part from Jurassic Park "I know this! This is an UNIX
system!". For some applications it might be handy, because you can get a
more nicely structured image. A 3d filemanager would be cool, I think,
if it has redesigned navigation tools that allow you to zoom in and out
fast. You'd have a much more clear overview, as the third dimension
could be used to show file/directory size, or creation date, or however
you want it to be.
Text editors and office applications however won't really be fun to look
at in 3d, for pretty much the same reason paper is flat, too. It would
be quite annoying having to write code on a cube...
Oh, goodie, another "reinterpretation" of the UI involving '3-D'. This has been done before and this doesn't look any better than earlier efforts. Tell me why this is supposed to be revolutionary/fresh/insert meaningless buzzword here?
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Of course, we'd have to use it awhile and study it, to make a real comparison. I can't actually see this site, because of the /. effect, so I'll ramble and speculate....
Visualizing this in my puny little brain, I "see" a problem -- 3D clutter. If you think your current 2D desktop is cluttered, because of hidden stuff sitting behind stuff, then wait for the 3D effect.... On the other hand, the holy grail of 3D interfaces -- hologram projection and the like -- might have the problem of seeing through the object....
If you do real/semi-real 3D with actual depth, there could be problems with users having headaches or blurred vision, or flicker, as well, possibly, depending on implementation, yada, yada.
I think alpha-blending, if done properly, is a better way to unhide relavent information. Dual monitors, wide-screens, or really large screens with a lot of resolution are others.
I think 3D would look cool, though.
some major bugs
:D
some missing features
a slow memory leak that requires you to stop and start it every hour or so
But very usable.
BAHAHAHHAHAHAHhahahahhahahahhahahaha
I believe the 3D application has a use - but not so much in reconfiguring the desktop as in doing searches for pertinent information in a specific field. What would be expecially useful is if preferences could be set for such a search so one could really *fly* through the most usful searches - and then they could be easily changed to new parameters - A recent post on the Landscape of Science would be a good example - it was based on frequent search requests -
If the *map* could be configured to just the researchers area of interest - that might save a huge amount of time - and aid those of us who are more visually oriented. As it is, the GUI idea seems a bit overcooked: As it is presented it is still trying to turn a linear, hierarchical filing system into a 3D one, rather than create new associations.
as a visual effects developer, i'd like to point out that there are some very nice (better?) effects that can be achieved with 2d effects. eye candy that would make you drool.
check out my burning dialog box movie.
K.
This might look fun, but I think Project Looking Glass has more potential as it's cross-platform.
It also looks better, and (probably) has more features when it's released.
For people unaware: http://wwws.sun.com/software/looking_glass/
- Agilo
Do you really think that the traditional 2D/command line interfaces are EASIER than these new attempts at increasing usability? Or is it just coolness?
Isn't the problem the dificulty of manipulating a 3d world using a 2d device such as a mouse?
please.
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There is nothing more annoying
than inadvertantly clicking
on some window underneath the one you're currently working on.
Fullscreen prevents that.
There is nothing stopping you from having a smaller window.
From what I can deduct from all of these 3D desktops is that they want to be able to show more things on a desktop. however just shrinking things and cramming them together isnt gonna work. i think the real limitation on "showing more stuff" is hardware... you need a bigger, higher resolution monitor= no development, no hassle (unles you get like a 75 pound CRT haha).
:P
just my two cents
quote "Please keep in mind that project is more of a vision. Due to the limitations of Windows I'm not able to do everything as I would like to. I know it is still not very usable, but I'll try to make it work as I can. I hope when there's time for it, this theory will have a satisfying implementation."
;)) but I do not think this bring something "better" than the 2D paradigm.
Aside the fact that in "reality" I am always handling my windows like a stack of paper, and this is far easier that way because that is what I am used to in the real world. Do you work within a sphere with paper all around you ? I tried (albeit not with a sphere but with 3 standing panel) and you always have the problem that you have to turn around to collect data.
Whereas with a big standing pannel or flat surface you can put everything you need and shift the look. Maybe I am too old to change (32
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visit randi.org
I got a chance to look at this program about a week ago when a friend installed it on my gaming PC I leave at his house.
To say the least the program has a long way to go before it can become a useful product. I admit that it has potential, but it has some issues.
Firstly, the images it produces are really choppy. It doesn't recreate the graphics of the apps in the background with enough detail. And I am not just talking about legability either. I had calc running in the background and the bottom of the application was cut off.
The next thing was the interaction in switching the applications from being into the foreground to the background. You have to click on the top of the app, just a pixel above the title bar. It, needless to say, took awhile to get the hang of it.
Another problem I had was applications that would disappear within the middle. You can zoom in and out of the 3d space, and its easy to lose an application that is in the middle. I managed to place a program in the middle of the desktop so that when I spun around you still could not find the application. One would assume I would eventually find it 180degrees around, but I didn't until I zoomed all the way out.
The last thing would have to be the fact that its not a true 3d environment. The desktop does not wrap around to the other side. When navigating all the way around, its not possible to come to a full loop.
Don't get me wrong though. I think this is quite an achievement for who designed it. And I think it deserves all the merit it can get.
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
What if you try moving a window, and another window is in the way? Do you get clipped windows (which actually could be useful for multi-window editing), or would there be another solution, where the 'blocking' window was moved (which is my guess)?
It's been so long since I cared that I don't recall whether the Sidewinder series have them, but I remember the hat as being a precursor to all that weird twisting action...
This new interface reminds me of Minority Report!
*Starts making quick hand motions in front of screen*
Dammit, it doesn't work...
The only feature I missed from Enlightenment in new WMs was the animated panning in the virtual desktop - coupled with a zooming pager it made virtual desktops very intuitive. On my PII-350 it was sluggish, but with modern processors the overhead should be acceptable. The sphere is cool, but I feel it's kinda overkill, and I'd end up losing my windows.
I've seen several posts complaining about space on the 2D desktop. Two options that I haven't seen mentioned were screen resolution and monitor size. Going to a smaller screen resolution definitely gives you more room. It might be hard on the eyes, so it's not the best thing for everyone. A bigger monitor is another option. And LCD's are going down in price too. And if you really want space and have the cash, a projector will do the job nicely. My 15" is still good enough for me at 1280x1024.
3D desktops seem like a neat idea. But the definition of 3D seems to vary. Should the desktop itself be on a slant with icons floating above it? Should the windows just be slanted in 3D? Or should the windows be drawn with actual 3D dimensions to give a cubical look? Some people might say that a shadow gives the effect of 3D.
I do. Actually, it's a 4-D input device. I have two mice.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
They are much easier for anyone who has a 3-D display and 4-D vision. I believe Jesus might like it.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
I once saw an UK Intel executive showing a video of a proposed OS, which was 3D and based around hexagons. In theory it looked like a nice idea, but five years later and I've heard nothing of it since. Users simply prefer working in 2D.
Hey, why is everybody ripping off Microsoft? First it's Sun Microsystems with their Looking Glass, now it's this shit...
Hey Microsoft did this years ago!
You remember BOB, don't you?
Ah, the joys of seeing the blue screen of death in THREE dimensions...
What what whaaat??? There's a button I can press to "get work done"?? And no-one told me about this?
2:When I iconify a document it should sit on the desktop where I originally put it; when I close it the system should put it back in whatever folder it originally came from (or ask, if its a new file).
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
. Whaaat? Wouldn't they use Professional Edition? *ducks*
It's a standard disclaimer to show he has no computer knowledge. Xp Home doesn't let you know half of what's going on.
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
First, there needs to be some way of changing the windows' distance from the camera. With the current design, the windows are really small until you click on them, and then - WHOOSH (that's annoying, anyone who's used it knows what I mean) - they're huge and 2D again.
Second, we need a way to use the windows when they're "floating". Currently, you have to restore a window to its original 2D state if you want to be able to actually use it.
An interesting idea just popped into my head - since desktop computing is [still] meant to be 2D, why not use some of this guy's ideas in a 2D manner? Specifically, I'd like to see window scaling - you could resize a window so that the entire interface was scaled down: smaller text, smaller widgets, everything. It'd be just like if you took a screenshot of the window and scaled it down in Photoshop. Maybe this could be operated by using the right mouse button on the window's standard resize handles? Who knows. Does anyone know of anything like this that exists?
-- If you can read this, you are too close to my signature.
The 3d desktop is owned by looking glass(lg). Never have i seen a smoother and more efficient implementation of a 3d desktop enviroment than lg has put in place. It feels intuetive, its smooth and last but absolutely not least it looks good. Yes i know some of you prefer a desktop that looks like shit. Boring blue backgrounds with ugly icons or the exciting black screen with a white command line. But for us the new generation of engineers and so forth, that are actually more kreative and interesting than a piece of wood and actually grew up with friends, looks do matter. Right now im running windows on my entire home netvork, but come june im installing linux on my server, and come longhorn(and xp updates) im switching to lg for my entire network. Since im living with to other students that are total computer noobs its gonna be a fun experiment. Although looking at lg you know its just gonna go smooth. To sum it up: Sphere is stupid
Of course the PC desktop (2D or 3D) is exactly the same. Hunting in the start menu (or whatever you call it) for the calculater. Hunting in the menu for the option attach image.
Ideally there would be no apps for me to start and stop. Rather the OS would "know" what I am trying to do and do it for me. Kinda like a real secretary does (a really good one). Real spellchecking, real document formatting, real dictation, real file retrieval, real fact finding.
Currently that seems impossible. Even a simple thing as spell checking is so complex most people don't even bother with it. Computers are not just dumb they are moronic.
The entire 2D desktop interface is just gludges to get around the moronicness of the OS. We got a HUGE taskbar taking up valuable space just because the OS has no clue as wich app we want to use and wich we don't, we add shortcuts constantly on screen just because noone has found a way to launch the right app at the right time.
I am not saying I got the answer or even that there is an answer. But just like drawers, putting things behind you, extra large desks, etc are in ways of getting around the limitations of a desk. All current desktop designs are just ways of getting around the limitations of the OS.
Ideally we want a star trek like computer. One wich "magically" can detect what we want to do and do it. Until then all we got is gludges.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The Linux SDK is in source form (driver too).
From the README:
P5 Linux driver ver. 0.1; April 14, 2003,
So much to do, so little bandwidth.
--
Try Mozilla
I sometimes have far more than 10 windows open, and I alt tab between the last 4 used..... if the item you want is too far down the list, ya click it off the task bar (XP)
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
The real world isn't actually 3D. It's 2D. Our eyes see only the surface of things.
It is nice to be able to use 3D displays to generate depth to display 3D models, but a list box or calendar will always remain a 2D object, even if we have actual 3D display devices, because of the simple fact that we are unable to perceieve inside a closed box - for exactly that reason, traditional real world calendars only display the current month, while all the 3 dimensionned other months sit quietly stacked underneath the top page, neatly hidden from view.
The 2D paradigm that we currently have is actually, IMO, one of the best imitations we could have of our current surrounding 3D world.
I personally think the entry into 3D navigation and GUIs requires 2 revolutions:
First: an escape from current mentality which is very empirical, and thus limits us to only make effective 2D designs while being extremely clumsy for 3D. For example: a list box will forever be 2D, but a 2 column list box can be 3D. Now making it directly 3D is useless, as we've established before, we can't see through the leafs of a calendar. But I am positive there's a clever way to do it... Really, the first thing I'm looking for is the world's first 3D date picker that lets you actually see all three axes (day, month, year) simultaneously.
The second revolution will only come after the first one, or rather, it will only be useful after the first one, and that is proper 3D output devices. I'm thinking 3D monitors at first, but really, the goal is VR goggles or even implants.
I think once those two barriers are crossed, user efficiency is going to go really high.
I've got 26 things open right now and between a multi-tabbed browser, taskbars over two monitors and a sidebar I don't have any problem getting to what I want. The Alt-Tab Replacement helps too.
Part of the problem with 3D GUIs is that monitors are 2D devices, not 3D. Give me a workable 3D display device and manipulation tools (hint: I'm thinking of 'give me the real world' here) with my 3D GUI and you might have something. Even in the 'real world' however, 2D is often a most useful abstraction. Jakob Nielsen has an interesting column (with rebuttals) on the problems of 3D interfaces.
http://www.canesta.com/products.htm
The goggles are here...the virtual keyboard is here.
Great, someone slashdotted the mirror. Just fscking great...
The BSOD: Blue Sphere Of Death
I think the key is not so much how much information you can see at once, but how fast and intuitively you can get to what you've hidden. I don't know about you, but I can't concentrate on things going on in seventeen windows at once. I find the following useful in a typical 2D WIMP GUI today:
The fact that all my notification examples relate to events I might have been waiting for, and thus times I might want to switch immediately to the generating application, is not a coincidence. I think one area where UIs have been developing over the past decade is the separation of a main "work area" and a separate area for notifications and status, and starting new work. I expect this trend to continue.
I also guess that another serious UI research area in the next few years will be why a simple copy-and-paste system is so useful, yet a "super-powerful" system like Microsoft's OLE is rarely used in practice. I think moving data between apps is going to be one of the next big things in usability, but I haven't seen anyone get it right yet. The basic copy-and-paste idea is good, and drag-and-drop is good. A few people have played with "multiple clipboards", but it's always broken down with efforts to date: the simplicity and therefore usability goes.
Now, getting back on topic, I'm not sure how a 3D interface will help much with these ideas, compared to simply having a really big display area. (Even then you'd have to be careful not to put notifications out of the user's main field of vision when they were working on something else.) The almost-sideways-on view of "minimized" windows in some of the 3D desktop demos has a certain appeal, since it might be a better representation of what data is hidden and how to get it back than existing task bars and such, but I think most of it is just the new-and-different factor, and I'm afraid usability will stamp on it real fast if that's all it's got to offer.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
With this i can finally be as good a hacker as Stan! (passwd swrdfsh)
because it is really no easier to switch between items in "3D" than with the other types of control features (taskbar, "virtual" desktops, etc.). They all require a physical action by the user to move the focus to the wanted item. Having a 3D desktop is just another take on the "virtual" desktop idea.
It really comes down to the question of how you want to deal with partitioning your work space when you have more items than can be effectively displayed at one time. Your best options are to:
Now a truly useful and cool interface would be to have the large thin panel display from "The Minority Report" with complete and accurate voice and gesture recognition.
--- Void where prohibited. Your mileage may vary. ---
It is not enough to distort 2D windows in a 3D envirment... With this system you would be able to get less work done slower...
A better 3D system would be something based on Looking Glass... where its adding features to a 2D envirment.... Plus new windowing ideas...
Sun has a simmelar project in the works. Codenamed Project Looking Glass. They have a nifty Vid. Based on their Java Desktop.....
CubicEye is a 3d web browser. It lets you drill through every link from any given page in a tunnel-like structure.
http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/macwarriors/projects/3dosx /
You'll excuse my while I keep using fluxbox.
It seems that all Sphere does it take 2 dimensional windows and let you rotate them in the third dimension. How is that useful? I can't imagine any gain in productivity just because I can rotate windows. There's no innovation here at all yet.
Just as the 2D window interface was a paradigm shift 3D interfaces need the same shift. 2D windows make perfect sense in a 2D world. Right now they're just making 2D interfaces float into a 3rd dimension. What's needed is a completely original idea that really takes advantage of 3 dimensions. If I could come up with that original idea myself I'd be a very rich man, so I'm not saying it's easy. But this isn't paving the way toward anything great until someone comes up with something brilliant.
Developers: We can use your help.
My wife can't even look towards the screen if I have a 3D program with a rotating camera view on screen. Think any first/third person shooter. Now her GUI can make her sick! Go windows!
Enter... iEx - an Exposé clone for Windows. It doesn't appear to have very active development but it works pretty well (I've only been using it for the past five minutes). It only runs on Windows XP.
-- If you can read this, you are too close to my signature.
Only I took 10 monitors and hung them from the ceiling at my desk. While I must admit it was hard moving them around at first, I got the "hang" of it. The biggest problem with this type of "desktop" occurs when your monitors bump together (some rubber padding does the trick).
I'm glad to see someone wrote some software to do this as my ceiling is beginning to buckle under the weight. Thanks!
Whenever you read this sig someone's refrigerator light turns on.
I'm not sure how this is a "replacement for Microsoft Windows XP", since XP is an operating system and this is not. However, I wonder how a project like this would benefit from cheap, motion sensitive VR goggles (granted none actually exist). The disparity between the flexibility of VR interfaces and the inflexibility of traditional monitors is a huge impedement to these ideas.
I'm not sure I want to end up like this guy, in a badly-lit office, in complete silence, except for the insane breathing and the sound of the annoying mouse wheel and some strange periodic noise. Then there's the mad spinning around the user interface, randomly clicking applications, zooming them, and dragging them around. Pure insanity. No thanks.
Hey dude, if you're not going to narrarate this -- you should, by the way -- turn the sound OFF. It will make your file sizes smaller and it won't sound so insane.
RP
Interesting? Perhaps. But in this demo, we've gone from limited 2D to limited 3D. You're still stuck in this godforsaken sphere, which is even more of a prison, in a way. Because you can see beyond it but can't escape the coordinate of 0,0,0 -- from what I can tell, anyway. You can zoom in and out, but you can't ever "go over there".
Seems like this could put you in the sphere of your computer but allow you to leave it and go swimming around the network. You can see that guy's computer over there (only the stuff he lets you see, of course) and head over there and look at one of his files. Or drag it back over to your neck of the woods. You could also look at your ports visually if you choose, seeing packets coming in and going out.
Even within your own computer, seems like you could leave 0,0,0 and spin around and look at your windows from behind. Yeah, I know... harder than it looks. The Sun demo had something like that, though. But what they were missing was the sphere thing.
This is an interesting interface but since you've made it more of an endless world, the users's new-found confinements will have to be addressed.
RP
It crashed when I tried it.. everytime.
Generally, 3d desktops suffer from a lack of metaphorical coherence, but what's worse is the lack of a decent physical control device to use them. I think that the effort put into these sorts of gimmicky UIs would be better spent thinking about how to implement a 3d system in a heads up display or thinking about how to make it work for the image-onto-retina technology that various groups are working on. These technologies could actually effectively integrate the two pieces needed -- a decent physical interface and a compelling reason to use the 3d graphical abstraction of information and functionality compared to the 2d abstraction of information and functionality.
Online citizen journalism from the inner city: The View From The Ground
I don't know about you, but that overlook of the Empire State Bldg. makes me quesy. Judging by the way some of his controls work you might see that image rotate wildly as you move between active program windows. I can see that making me throw up. I'm not afraid of heights, I've jumped out of perfectly good airplanes. It's the fake motion of the rotated image. Honestly, most people just close their eyes and scream the first time they skydive. Me I thought it was the coolest thing ever, until I went scubadiving.
I like the idea of virtual destops way better. In fact I think in the DEFAULT dropdown menu for all open window objects you should be able to send it to another virtual desktop. I've seen this feature before, but it's not enabled on my Knoppix 3.3 as far as I could tell. I would like to open a xterm or something, execute a command and then send it to virtual desktop 2. Open kppp, start internet connection and send it to desktop 3 or minimize to systray. Open Evolution and launch the "get mail" and then send to another desktop til later.
--Somewhere there is a village missing an idiot.
Well, if you want Attack, you'll want psDooM. Excuse me while I go frag that zombie child process...
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
As if Windows didn't want to make you puke already.
It's a cool project, but the poor guy's server is getting killed. :(
Here is a mirror to the movies & screenshots.
Here is a mirror to the movies & screenshots... HIH
Each window (in every window system) has a Z-order. Greater Z means window is below other windows. Less Z means window is in front of other windows. Z = 0 means windows is on top.
What is 2D is the projection type. Current projection is flat. The Sphere XP turns projection to 3D.
Since the concept is not changed though, I don't see what benefits 3D projection can bring. You still have to search the environment for that other window. Only 3D projection makes it more difficult.
Isn't that a quake weapon?
:)