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China Developing own Standards
J ROC writes "Encouraged by their government Chinese electronics firms are shunning technological protocols invented abroad and developing their own, according to this article. The Chinese have developed several standards including EVD to replace DVD standards, and TD-SCDMA to replace the CDMA cell phone standard found elsewhere. The reasons seem to be partly based on "techno-nationalism", and Chinese firms growing tired of paying foreign patent fees. While this may force foreign firms to lower their patent fees, some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
China is currently facing the dilemma of joining the world community yet somehow maintaining it's authoritarian (yes they are still communist) government. Communism itself can't tolerate any kinds of rivals whatsoever. This extends to churches like the inability of Tibetans to display pictures of the Dalai Lama to the fact that Chinese Catholics cannot be loyal to the Pope (he is not a Chinese National and therefore verboten). Other Chinese intolerances include banning Falun Gong which commands hearts and minds of a huge number of Chinese and is therefore an enemy of communist ideology even though it's a relatively benign movement.
It should be no suprise that the Chinese want to develop their own standards: using Microsoft for everything would basically put China in a position of having their tech infrastructure being run by a foreign power. This is merely an example and of course it's easy to pick on Microsoft but this idea extends to all ideas that have their standard determined and dictated somewhere else other than by the <SARCASM>glorious Chinese communists.</SARCASM>
Under communism there is no such thing as intellectual property rights unless you are the State. Communism cannot afford any kinds of rivals whatsoever, such is the nature of authoritarian regimes be them communist or otherwise.
Wonder how this will effect all the rampant pirating of our wares?
Sigs? We don't need no stinking sigs!
. . .and China will come up with an incompatible email protocol, and rid us of much of our spam problem ;)
"The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
Creating national standards is an eventual dead-end. Eventually, when the Next Big Thing overtakes the world, these national standards will only serve as an impediment to technical progress in China. Remember Minitel vs the global internet in France? If it's this kind of backwards progress they're after, they might as well invent their own alternative to the metric system.
China has a market that is far far FAR too large to care what the rest of the world thinks or does. As the middle class grows, companies from the rest of the world are going to come crawling to China in order to participate in the market.
They won't isolate themselves, they'll re-write the books on standardization.
20% of the world's population.
:)
I reckon that's a pretty good base on which to design standards.
Jackie Chan was asked once in an interview if he regretted not breaking into the US market. He replied that with 2 billion people in asia, why should he care about the States?
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
"China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
It would fit right in with their governmental system.
China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world.
I'm more concerned that someday the rest of the world may need to bend over [backward] to support China's standards. They are, after all, manufacturing a great many of the electronic items that we buy.
er...5 billion people is quite an isolated market. Besides which the Chinese have sought isolation for millenia. The great wall of china, the boxer rebellion, world war II, and mao's march were all about thowing foreign influence out of the country.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
...some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world. As opposed to their lack of isolation now?
I love standards. There are just so many to choose from. And now China is going to give us more.
This sig no verb.
some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world
Why not? It works for the United States...
On a serious note, China is big enough to throw its own weight around if it wants to, though.
I don't know about that isolation warning. China is pretty big and has access to cheap labor. Microsoft isolated itself right into a market monopoly by ignoring standards.
" some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
And that's particularly different from the U.S. how? PCS vs. GSM...
While that is true, China could also benefit from setting their own standards, letting other corporations or other countries use it for free or much lower cost than the more costly, patent protected counterparts. That will likely turn the table around and isolate the more expensive alternatives of what we have now, and will be using their cheaper and possibly superior standards for our future needs.
Please direct all bug reports to
As much as I hate to admit it, the US has managed to do mostly fine with a proprietary measurement standard (save for a spacecraft or two).
a better standard of living.
They already have enough on thier plate, and I am not talking about food.
It's all good.
Compatible with the 'rest of the world'? China IS the rest of the world. America occupies about 5% of the world population. Instead of worrying about China technologically cutting itself off, how about we worry about being compatible with their standards? I'm more worried that one day there will be 3 billion EVD players that won't read DVDs.
Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
I suppose in the near term this will be true, but they're the fastest-growing and soon-to-be largest consumer market in the world. If they can stay united, they'll be in a strong position to dictate standards to everyone.
Reminds me of the old joke about British weather headlines -- "Fog shrouds channel, Continent isolated"...
2*3*3*3*3*11*251
The current Chinese population is around 1.3 billion. It does not include everyone on Earth.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Anybody else see the comparison to Coming to America?
"They have the DVD standard, and we have the EVD standard . . ." the Chinese solution
"McDonald's has the Big Mac, and we have the Big Mic. They have the Golden Arches, and we have the Golden Arcs," Mr. McDonnell explaining why McDonald's doesn't have a case of trademark infringement.
What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
I don't think they'd be isolating themseleves (anymore so than they are now, willingly). There's no reason that they couldn't develop gateways to interface with foriegn technology. It's not like compatable technologies won't be available, they'll still be made over there to be shipped to first world countries, and I'm sure they'd be happy to sell to the chinese people as well. If this brings lower cost technology to the people, I'm all for it. If it's intended as a means of information isolation, then of course they can make that happen, but I don't think that's the case here. It seems like they genuinely want to get out of patent costs, which is why they have a national Linux distribution. Truly Open standards aren't patent encumbered, and maybe they'll open up some of their tech to us, and we end up being the ones who adopt it, as an open and perhaps better standard.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
I really don't get China's attitude.
I don't see how this sort of isolationism will be of any benefit to them in the future.
I don't get it, what are they afraid of? They'd be the dominant global force if not for constantly shackling themselves with this kinds of stuff. This is like imposing economic sanctions against your own nation.
Oh well, it's a good thing they limit their power thusly, so long as their approach to human rights remains as it is.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
With an estimated population of 1.3 to 1.4 BILLION by 2010, I can really see China's techno nationalism hurting itself.
:-)
If (for example) the US with a population of ONLY 300 Million, and Japan (130 million) and a few other countries can dominate the worlds technology, I can easily imagine that in 50 years time we could be all following Chinas leads with regards to technology (assuming of course they haven't outsourced it all to India by then
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
This should be a challenge to open standards everywhere to try and get China on board. It's a huge potential market that would still rather latch onto a good open standard than be yoked to something proprietary. This is a big opportunity.
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
Experts warn that China risks isolating itself
China's history is all about isolation (erm, the great wall and stuff), not to mention what communism did to them. Their modern history is rife with isolationism. To quote Spock, "Only Nixon could go to China." This says nothing of the centuries before that. So isolated were they that they didn't even realize they were the ones who invented the clock!
China, isolating itself?... It took experts to realize this?...
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
After RTFA, I thought of a decent question. Are there Chinese developed formats better then the current US/Japanese formats out there right now? They mentioned the Chinese WIFI encryption; WAPI. Is it better then WAP? Worse?
To be honest, I could see why they would want thier own formats. They have a country of over a billion people, and even if only a fraction of them buy eqiupment based on foreign patents; that's a lot of money.
RaGe
We're all just noise on the wires..
...Chinese firms growing tired of paying foreign patent fees.
Are they even _paying_ patent fees now?
Next they'll be doing something crazy like building a wall round their country.
... as a sovereign state. Not so good for those who dream of a one world integrated system. I don't concieve of any reason interchanges couldn't be develop to allow the chinese standards to coexist with the rest of the world, sure it will be bothersome to some, but maybe this will give China an opportunity to innovate in new and interesting ways. What some may regard as fractioning I would say could potentially spurr innovation and competition. But you know, why look for a bright side to this when it gives us ample opportunity to pull a chicken little or to belittle somebody else...
:-)
Woot for the chinese! Dirty commies!
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
PS: And please hold off on the Microsoft comparisons; in many cases, they ARE the de-facto standard.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Today's new age China is developing in leaps in bounds from what I have been seeing. To think china does not have ideas that are as good or better then the rest of the world and we should not adopt would be asinine to say. I am not saying everything that come out of china is grand. but when you have population like them selves one needs to think about where to adopt from. I am really thinking as time goes on China is going to be huge force to be reckoned with.
Does anyone know if these standards they are developing open? If they are and if they are better than existing standards then whats everyone worrying about?
Bullhockey, the rest of the world will cater easily to a market of possibly 1.3 billion consumers, let us not forget the system of capitalism which does not really care who is buying it as long as someone is buying it. If the cost of licensing and fees are so high in a market where the foothold was not that strong to begin with then it would only follow reason that people/corporations/governments will adapt to the fabrication of their own systems...which is the same argument we use in the OSS community.
Additionally, China does not like to follow foreign arrangements, they tangle with democracy and touches of capitalism too much as it is (their opinion), having them rely on those same foreign arrangements undermines the authority of the governing powers.
It's about time that China started doing these things, hopefully the push in the technology direction wont spark another arms race, but rather easier and open stream technology and systems for the lower end users.
Let's keep in mind that patents are in place to keep lawyers employed and keep them litigating. -CatGrep
"While this may force foreign firms to lower their patent fees, some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
Well. They sure can. China is a large economy, with the potential to be much bigger than the US or Europes.
The development in China and India is very fast and the "western" world really need to change their attitude towars China and India or we will be the one falling behind. Remember they have together more than 2 billion people. India is the worlds largest democracy too.
i hope they come up with their own SMTP protocol standard so they can keep their F(*&%ing spam to themselves!
i can wish, can't i?
It has been promoting as more secure the homegrown Red Flag Linux, based on an open-code operating system.
First Linux was invented by the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, and now Linus is Chinese. Methinks the article author doesn't get it with respect to linux.
As far as the other technolgies, I think the EVD standard is doomed to failure. People are going to want DVDs from abroad, and a player that only does EVD isn't going to sell. The mobile phone standard doesn't matter. The US has gone its own way with cell phone standards and the sky hasn't fallen yet. There's not a lot of compelling reasons why mobile phone standards have to be compatible with the rest of the world, and China is definately big enough to set their own standard.
As far as this cry of "nationalism", that just sounds like posturing to justify this to a certain communist segment of the Chinese populace. Setting your own standards and avoiding patent fees sounds like capitalism to me.
AccountKiller
Personally, if the Chinese standards don't include restrictive concepts such as CSS and region-encoding, I'd rather have my movies on EVD than DVD.
That said, if EVD has some other kind of restrictions (such as detecting anti-government remarks, and then emailling the details of the viewer to the Ministry of Truth, so that they might be 're-educated' - then perhaps CSS is the lesser of two evils.
This is all much commotion over nothing. People use different standards all the time, and it's not always a big problem.
You say they're developing their own kind of DVDs, yet (thanks to region codes) DVDs aren't internationally compatiable anyway.
About cell phones... are you kidding me? Look at how many networks we already have in the world... GSM, TDMA, CDMA, and yet we still manage to call each other.
You don't even have to be a country to make your own standards. Look at Sony and their spectacularly incompatible products.
Someone mentioned that this is like creating their own versions of the metric system. Guess what? America has just that, and is it an isolationist country?
At most, all this will probably mean that we'll just be required to convert things from one standard to another, just like we've always done. Yes, it can be annoying, but it won't dramatically isolate China. What's the big deal?
Totally the NIH syndrome, but they're probably willing to spend the time and effort to control what and how their population views media.
Still what are the chances that they develop cheap or even open standards to attempt to replace the rest of the world's? I'm sure that China would love to be the next Microsoft or Sony. Question is, are they capable of coming up with better standards, formats and devices and then will they be able to market them to the rest of the world?
China is going to isolate patent holders
They are welcome, to join the club!
experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world
Yes.. Perhaps the US should also take note. Using your own standards for mobile phones and digital radio is not a good idea.
'While this may force foreign firms to lower their patent fees, some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world'
He, he. The truth is that they exclude the US and Europe, not that they 'isolate themselves' - don't get too big a head.
There is nothing strange about this situation. China is growing, and growing and growing - the West, and USA in particular, are in decline economically (and morally, by the looks of it); the natural consequence is that China takes the lead and we learn to follow. And I suppose it is quite natural that the former masters feel hard done by and start whining, as one can see ample evidence of in this blog; but it is still pathetic and unworthy.
Lazlo's Chinese Relativity Axiom:
No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats - approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
China is a real threat to the potential for world democracy. And don't forget it. They may trade with the west, but their political structure and long term planning make them political and economic adversaries long term. Compared to them, Iraq is a "[...]side show of a side show" (See Lawrence of Arabia for the quote).
--Maynard
I wouldn't really expect an open standard from the government that brought us Tiananmen Square.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
``China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world.''
Like the United States? Both China and the US are arrogant enough to do their own incompatible thing, and both are powerful enough that others will adapt to them. Now, when India and the European Union also decide they can set the course for the rest of the world to follow, the situation looks a lot like Europe at the beginning of the last century, with a few powerful nations and many smaller ones that were allied with one or other.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Ever since Mao consoldited his power, China has been ruled as a communist state by a Communist Party.
"And for your information no other country in modern history has either"
There have been dozens of communist nations, and there are a few left now.
" Just because they call themselves communist doesn't mean they are"
You are like the Baptist extremist who says that Catholics are not Christian.
Secondly, China remains a totalitarian country which has only adopted capitalistic market as a stepping stone on its way back to pure communism. That remains the ultimate goal and doctrine of the CCP. Isolation from foreign "control" allows them to better insulate their own population, selectively, from expected evil foreign manipulation and "interference in China's internal affairs". Becoming a "standards-setter" might also give the CCP more leverage over Taiwan's extremely powerful business lobby in preparation of the "re-unification" of that island with communist China.
On a related note, all this foreign investment feeding the growth of totalitarian China is somewhat akin to helping Hitler build up the Nazi German industry, after Hitler had already begun invading its neighbours. China's nationalist propaganda aside, they are holding Tibet under very harsh foreign occupation, and the turkic Uighur people of East Turkestan (which the Chinese call Xinjiang, or "New Frontier") are not too happy under Chinese control and massive influx of ethnic Chinese on their lands either. But yet China is a great business buddy while the fully contained and de facto harmless Iraq had to be invaded... Maybe I just don't get the true meaning of this "liberation of people" stuff.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
No, they'll just get the foreign corporations, like Sun, to bootstrap them with subsidized projects. While Sun's marketers and bizdev suits salivate over the Chinese market, their mafia government will just announce new API standards and cut out every company that's not Chinese. Sun will cut its losses, sell its useless stakes in their Chinese operations to Chinese "partners", and the Chinese companies will proceed to revise the open source OS and apps.
It's called judo: leverage your larger opponent against himself, as he clumsily grasps at you. Chinese people invented it, and it still works, at all scales, in all arenas.
--
make install -not war
While this may force foreign firms to lower their patent fees, some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world.
Seems that the US and Canada have done okay despite their standardization on Imperial measurement units as opposed to metric. The Chinese populations is now something like 1.2 billion people if I recall correctly, which is 4 times larger than the US. Once they get going economically they'll be dictating a lot of standards, I'm afraid.
If you post it, they will read.
I hate that DVD region encoding CRAP as much as anybody, but you gotta have cajones to take on Hollywood. This likely means they're going to be focusing on Chinese movies as opposed to American movies as well.
Won't these guys let us keep ANY of our monopolies intact? It's like they refuse to roll over and let us 0wn them or something.
I'm not normally an irrational zealous dickhead, but I figure "When in Rome..."
While meant to be funny, I'd like to point out the fact that they can create their own standards and not give them to anyone. Of course, they could license them....
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I would be more concerned by the fact that China may be isolating us!
You underestimate the interest in escaping outrageous patents, patent fees and monopolies. China can set its own standards because it has enough consumers to force foreign companies to listen. Pundits saying China will isolate itself (e.g. suffer) are blowing industry smoke. What, are American corporations pulling themselves from Uncle Sam's tit long enough to cry that capitalism is unfair? Boo hoo.
The Chinese for millennia have had a deep-seated contempt for foreign cultures. Their entire national cultural mythos is based on the concept of them being the "Middle Kingdom." It simply doesn't work for them to actually have to get along with those that their ancestors regarded as "barbarians."
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
"China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
... perhaps the rest of the world risks cutting off China by charging to high patent licensing fees :)
Posters recognized by their sig,
"some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
Ummm...shouldn't that read, "China may successfully isolate itself through these measures"? Isn't that what they seem to perpetually want, with their policies in most other areas?
Its their choice.. They can do what ever they want with their technology..
Might be rough to 'trade' down the road, but its their right to be incompatible if they want.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"You think the rest of the world doesn't know how lame y'all are? Coverup your government, failing space agency, lame retro-technology."
I read this and had to remind myself your talking about China and not the US. Seriously, think about that for a second, this describes the US to a T.
Sure information wants to be free, but how much are you willing to pay for the packaging?
...they might as well invent their own alternative to the metric system
They've already GOT ONE!
1 km = 2 li
(3.218 li = 1 mile)
1 m = 3 chi
(0.914 chi = 1 foot)
1 kg = 2 jin
(0.907 jin = 1 pound)
1 hectare = 15 mu
(6.070 mu = 1 acre)
1 litre = 1 sheng
(4.546 sheng = 1 gallon)
Come on - they're 1.3 billion people, neighboring India with close to the same amount of people.
:)
It's like the joke with the mathematician who gets tasked to capture a herd of sheep. He puts a small fence around himself, and declares the herd to be inside the fence (which, with the earth being round and all that, technically they are).
We westeners may well use different standards from the chinese, but is it really the chinese who are caught inside the fence?
GSM adoption was terribly slow in the U.S. (they had their own inferior but very patriotic standards and refused to let the decadent easteners (europe) dictate what to use) - but at least as far as I know, it's catching on now. Well, we have triband phones here in europe, the third band being for use in the U.S., so I guess it must be catching on. The reason? It's a good standard.
Trust me; if the chinese come up with superior standards and flood the marked with good cheap products, we will be using chinese standards faster than any trade commission can cry "unfair!".
Bring it on!
with 1.4 billion potential consumers, the rest of the world better consider adopting chinese standards or they risk isolating themselves from the chinese.
What ? Me, worry ?
I dissagree that they will isolate themselves from the world. More likely the rest of the world will have to adopt their standards and learn to interact. They have 25% of the world population and growing rapidly. It is a very western view to look at it the other way.
Please, no more comments about isolation. It has been covered already.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Just as an example, EVD has been something of a flop.
The Chinese didn't actually invent most of the technology in EVD; they seem to have just taken the existing DVD medium and licensed On2's VP6 video codec (On2 is US-based). They've shipped so little actual EVD units that On2 is suing the Chinese companies involved for not fulfilling their minimum units obligations. As a bit of anecdotal evidence, my Chinese friend claims that he can't even find EVDs any more (there were more several months ago).
TD-SCDMA was also developed in large part by outsiders (Siemen's IIRC), and hasn't completely taken off, though this may change if/when the government decides to require operators to use it. Point is, I believe many of these new "Chinese standards" are really just a way to encourage real competition in the new Chinese economy, and it's actually working extremely well. EVD, for example, might actually be a really great way to stop the HD-DVD mafia from imposing discriminatory patent fees against Chinese electronics manufacturers.
You're missing the point entirely. China is the world's fastest-growing economy, and has the economic potential of twice the EU and US combined.
Whatever the Chinese develop has a very large chance of BEING the Next Big Thing that overtakes current standards.
It's a matter of bowing to the largest economy. It's how it has worked in the past, how it works now, and nothing seems to change the fact in the future.
different standards track than rest-of-world. And survived
thus far.
Eventually, the best standard will win. GSM is being adopted
here for a reason.
And what's wrong with letting the market decide who will win.
If U.S. and other firms priced themselves out of the market
because ofexcessive license fees... well, that's why it's a
market and the market will address those notions in its own way
as it always done.
No need for panic, or "fears of isolation". Stop the trolls.
Poof.
One of the biggest problems the Chicom government has at the moment is the Internet. People can easilly check the news from foreign countries and debunk the government propaganda they see all day on TV.
Kind of like what Canadians do with the CBC, only more.
If the Chicoms develop their own standards to replace the current web protocols like TCP-IP and HTML, they can isolate their population behind a brand spanking new Bamboo Curtain.
They wish.
One problem, they have to replace all their current telecom and computing infrastructure with new noncompliant home grown shit, which will be both expensive and damaging to their economy. They will be replacing good equipment with less capable stuff and reinventing the wheel endlessly.
This is precisely what the USA did to the Soviets with the arms race, but in a less belicose form. Probably changing the telco infrastructure will be more expensive than building a new bomber force every ten years like the Russians had to do from the 1950's right up to the fall of the Iron Curtain. Regan drove the last stake into their heart with his Star Wars plan. Trying to counter that pie in the sky drove 'em out of business.
Another problem is that it won't work. The country is wired to the hilt already, people are not going to voluntarily give up their window on the world for some Commiebox that reports direct to the Chairman's office every time they log on. China is BIG, even the Chicom government can't collect every PC in the country without active public cooperation. Plus some clever kid is going to hack the Commiebox to bridge the incompatible protocols anyway, probably the same week the new crap gets released. Linux port for the Commiebox anyone?
Final straw, half or more of the computer stuff for Western consumption gets made in Chinese factories right now. Anybody think some of that stuff won't quietly find its way into civillian hands? Shoplifting by employees alone guarantees it will.
I predict the Chicom economy won't carry the strain and if the government pushes this hard they will be bankrupt in ten years or less. Looks good on the bastards, I have to say.
Hopefully the Chinese people will be able to come up with a better government once the jackboot is off their necks.
Flame on, Commie appologists. I've got my asbestos undies ready. ~:D
China: We have TD-SCDMA
USA: Well, we have GSM-TD-SCDMA2000 !
China: Yeah?, well we have GSM-TD-SCDMA infinity.
USA: So, my country can beat up your country.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
I suppose I wasn't explicit, but the whole point was that the article implied that "Red Flag Linux" was a Chinese invention, while the truth is it's an invention that's about 98% foreign, and 2% China.
AccountKiller
I certainly don't disagree that western democracies are slowly moving toward plutocratic corporate feudalism. It's happening. However, it's a pendulum swing, just like in the Gilded age of the 1880s - 1900. So there's precedent for it happening before, and precedent for change in the other direction back. I'm much less worried about Democracy in the US and Europe collapsing than the potential for economic and military threats from those with orthogonal ideologies of totalitarian political control like China. They may trade with us, but they are not our friend - they have a well thought out long term plan for the benefit of China (as any nation ought), and they will maximize their economic and military advantage to the best of their ability. To forget or ignore this is an extreme folly. --M
But doesn't making your own standard to avoid patent royalties automatically make you incompatible? I mean even a compatible standard would be encumbered by patent royalties, considering that a lot of network communication patents cover connection methods and the like(Patenting an idea for the exchange of information, not the implementation of that exchange)?
Don't the chinese just pay the rightful price for their independance from big business? (Not that I blame them for it, it's a "You pay your money and you make your choices kinda thing") After all, if anyone could make a compatible and free implementation of something patented, the patent holder's rights would be moot. Hence, that's illegal. It's part of the social contract that the patent holder is the first one to profit from his invention. China's saying that the patent holders in some cases are too greedy.
Of course, the fact that many of the current patent laws are based on a basically Colonial-time view of the world(each little country with its own laws and very little interaction between countries) doesn't help the problem. The global village we are in is the wrong paradigm for such isolationism, and punishes countries with open borders for not updating laws quickly enough to follow suit. We know a lot of countries have a lot of laws that need to be brushed up, and some of those laws have to be globalized (I'm thinking about trademarks, specifically, since Internet trademarks, especially, tend to be both global AND local, and some kind of tracking needs to be done at the global level as well, and I don't mean ICANN.)
I don't know if you've noticed, but most of those standardized products are manufactured in China. Their population is great enough to force us to use their standards, rather than the other way around.
In Socialist China, Standards adopt YOU!!
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
Well according to This The population is only 1,286,975,468. And 10% of that is below the poverty line.
There are some good facts about China here.
We all know there is a lot of cheap labor there in China, the question that I have...Can China price point these standards so everyone can afford them??
And does these new standards work better then what we have???
CS....
It's left blank because I have nothing to say to you punks!
Lowers the cost of technology in China.
Reduces revenue to American and Japanese technology firms.
Allows for a new technical-design boom for Chinese workers, increasing knowledge and affluence.
Creates a cheaper alternative for worldwide consumers, including Americans. (Can you say WAL-MART?)
Increases the brain drain already in full swing from the major outsourcing of programmers and other tech positions to India.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
Could it be that China is doing this for internal reasons? If, in their economy, the Government has a big say in defining standards, could they be doing this so as to fashion them according to their own agenda just as corps do in the West (e.g. have a "censorship" bit in their protocols)?
With 1.3 billion people in China, the US and Europe are going to need to stick together in the 21st century.
Despite our current differences, we share an allegiance to democracy, human rights, the rule of law and the traditions of the Enlightenment. These things are worth defending. (Just to be clear, I am sure that many Chinese would feel the same: but their government, not necessarily.)
"China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
Can you imagine, after China's long history of being open with the rest of the world, that they would risk isolating itself?
Ok, enough with the sarcasm, what really bothers me when I think of this is I start wondering, why do we put up with the standards we have? Why do we tolerate a DVD standard that was created by the MPAA in the hopes of putting a strangle hold on how we watch movies? You need an approved player set to the correct region or it won't play, and any attempt to view a purchased movie on a player of your own creation, without an approved license to sell the player, is illegal.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but shouldn't we be insisting on free, open standards, ourselves? Isn't is shameful that corrupt totalitarian governments aren't using our standards because they aren't free enough?
Then again, I haven't personally done anything about it either.
That's quite a leap to say they risk alienation due to their refusal to pay out every patent for every product they use. Consumers outside of the US are more likely to adopt their new standards due to the lower cost.
DRM and patents seem to hamstring many of our US manufacturers. Take MP3 players for instance: The Rio 500 which was originally produced by Diamond now by a Sonic Blue doesn't allow customers to copy files from the unit. So you have a device that allows you to store music but you can't use it for storing files or anything else. If you look at the MP3 players built in China, you'll notice that you can make full use of the product. The product doubles as a Key Drive.
Chinese companies aren't worried about what the RIAA or the movie companies have to say about their products. They aren't as encumbered by the threat of litigation. In some cases this gives them a competitive edge.
A quote from an Intel source in a NY Times article on the subject:That sounds suspiciously like "they want to include backdoors, and Intel doesn't want to be associated with that crap."
Could this have something to do with it?
Ferrari and other exotic car rentals in New York
It should come as no surprise when countries that control the manufacturing base of the planet have the power to set standards at will.
I would guess that as we lose more and more control of the production of our products that we end up following the standards set elsewhere - especially after we experience a dip in purchasing power when our IP and standards are coopted by these same countries that don't respect our trademark/IP laws. Even the simplest supply-chain model dictates that monopolies in the chain dominate the chain. And at this rate - that won't be us.
I wonder what the free-market-niks will say when China teaches us a lesson in closed-market abusive monopolized production power. I would like to be the first to thank the mindless US "markets are omniscient" buffoons in power. . . thanks for setting us up for macro-economic slavery, you greedy, myopic, grease-paint-academic sellouts.
Regardless of the motives for having different standards in China (whether it is techno-nationalism, freedom from patents, facilitation of snooping by government, or whatever), China indeed can afford to do it.
...etc.) come after it.
...etc.
I personally think that it has to do with not being dependant on "foreign" technology more than anything else, and the other factors (government control,
Think about how many type of electrical outlets are there? If you do some travelling you know how much a pain in the butt it is to connect your laptop in UK, Italy, Dubai,
The USSR already has differing specs for many engineering things, from electrical theory to railroad width. Even their computer systems used to be totally different from ours up to the 1980s or so. They could afford to, because they had the largest landmass (lots of miles of railroad) and a relatively large population.
The same applies to China, which has far more people than any nation on this planet.
China certainly has the potential to be the next superpower. When will that be? Its anyone's guess...
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Hmmm... sounds like these "experts" are a bit suspect. If the Chinese develop their own standards, but make them freely available to everyone, then this just simply indicates that China is new competition. After all, wouldn't this be all about "free market"? ;P The idea of a global set of standards for technology is nice, but has been so far unattainable outside of the computer industry. With video we have NTSC, SECAM and PAL. Why should the computer industry be any different? I think the warnings given by these "experts" is nothing more than either chicken little thinking, or American neocons who are afraid of real competition.
Un-news
Although examples like 802.11 encryption are going to pose a real problem, I think we are all better-off with China adopting most of these standards.
For one thing, China came up with SVCD, and we are all able to use it because our Chinese-made DVD-players all support the format now. Not quite as compatible as DVD, but close.
When EVD comes out, we just might be able to use it the same way. It might be easier to make High-definition EVD discs than HD-DVDs.
Even if you don't want to use EVD, at least it keeps other companies in check. They can't charge a huge license fee for HD-DVD because if they do, EVD will get more adoption, and become more popular. It also pushes companies to get their standards going, because the Chinese standards are fighting them, and the later the American/Japanese standard comes, the more likely it is that the Chinese standard will already have a foothold.
Well, since I'm ranting already, I wonder why the open source community hasn't even tried to define any standards yet. Ogg Vorbis is out there, and so is VP3 and Theora is getting close to freezing the bitstream. Why not publish a spec for a license-free VCD that includes Theora and Vorbis in an Ogg container (with subtitles, multiple languages, etc) written in Mode2 on a CD? Or similar specs on a DVD for greater capacity, and far better quality than DVD-video?
You won't see such a standard adopted immediately, but it's likely it will take the same path as MPEG-4... First KISS may include the format in their expensive players, then you'll start to see other brands including it. In fact, it may just be adopted faster than MPEG-4 was, because there's no license-fee involved, and as an added bonus, the chips to decode VP3 video are less complex, and have been around for a long time, so they're probably cheap.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Brazil is getting reeel cozy, trade-wise, with China. Can't say I blame them.
The link above is a few days old -- lots of trade agreements have been signed already, to much hoopla here (Brazil).
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Only partly a surprise. China and the Chinese have a tradition of being somewhat exclusive and prefer to keep to themselves, which goes severeal thousands years back in their culture.
l ga), tough luck for them and little good news for us.
Leaving communism, human (and intelectual) rights aside, not to mention the Tibet, this may be a move that should be welcomed by international techonlogical, academic and economic community.
China has the resources to implement and test a set of its own standards. What we should all hope for is that they come up with something better than what we have to endure with today.
Hopefully, the ol'days of cold war are over where any result was accepted as long as it was a product of the 'right' 'working class'.
So this may, with a positive approach, stir up the competition.
If communist China, however, will practice the ol'style and come up with a kludgy design (remember-Wartburg-Trabant-Lada-Moskvich-Tatra-Vo
how many coutries are using inch, foot and miles?
Is the CDMA of verizon compatible with the CDMA of rest of the world?
Is the GSM of Singular compatible with the GSM in Germany or China or rest of the world?
What's the cell phone standard in Japan?
Which side the driver should sit in car driving in Japan and a car in USA?
what's the wireless encryption standard in Korea, south part of course?
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
You know, if China went on to develop a bunch of patent-free new techology and standards, I wonder how much of the world would adopt them? Really, it sounds like a good thing to me... if the standards work, then I'd much rather see adoption of a more-open not-patent-uncumbered Chinese techology than a strangling US one. Chinese technology could then likely become more friendly to OSS than its US counterpart.
Then, I decided to actually check my facts. Boy, what a suprise. I was right about the population issue: India 1.03 billion, China 1.28 Billion. But what really shocked me was the figures on literacy. I would have bet a week's pay that India had a much better educated population. I assumed that most Chineese couldn't read or write, but a little googling showed that China has about 80% literacy while India has around 60% literacy. So much for assumptions.
I still think China is in for a tough time when more of their population gets access to outside information. It's difficult to excercise dictatorial control over a population that has ready access to contrary views and information. We'll have to see. Maybe this can be a "peaceful" revolution... Either way, China will be a force to be reconned with, but I seriously think creating their own standards will slow the growth process.
"terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
China cannot afford paying for foreign technology patents on ridiculously simple ideas and therefore is going its own way. This is a one of the results of pressure by the WTO to comply with international IP treaties. They are a very large market, so why not? Isolation is not an issue to them - it is an issue to everybody else. I think it makes very good sense.
China risks isolating itself
That's EXACLTY what they are wanting. The Chinese government would like nothing better.
This reminds me of something I watched on an old WWII documentry.
One of the factors that slowed the Nazis down in trying to invaded the Soviet Union was that the Soviet Union used non-standard train tracks that Nazi troop and supply trains could not run on.
Steve
See subject.
Forking out millions of US$ in licences would ruin any chinese company. Hell, do you know what 500$ US means for a chinese person? ONE THENTH of the per-capita GDP! and it won't even buy a single PC with Windows on it.
To those of you paranoiacs who still think Communism Is The Red Menace: communism has nothing to do with this issue. In fact, the Chinese are applying by-the-book capitalism to IP: get the cheapest source avaliable, and use it.
You're not old until regret takes the place of your dreams.
It is egocentric of one to think that the Chinese are actually worried about isolation. Although, the majority of it's population could be classified as poor and rural, the fact remains that there is a market of close to 1.3 billion people there. Why wouldn't they help themselves before helping foreigners?
1/4 of the worlds population resides in china. Could this not mean that places like America might have to conform to what the majority of the world is losing? maybe is not china who's being isolated....
First off, I hope you understand that patents have nothing to do with free market property rights and everything to do with private government backed monopolies - so in the case of "can't stand the competition", I think US businesses should take a serious look in the mirror first before looking at China.
Second, imposing patnets is suicidal for any western economy. We're going to find this out the hard way beacsue if we impose patents on a million items overseas, then that means that we're giving overseas countries the right to impose a billion patents on us - because we are outnumbered in the world bigtime.
Finally, one of the few protectins China has from becomming a facist dictatorship like germany did in 1940 is their open culture of copying and sharing knowledge without trying to assign ownership controlls to it. When we destroy this culture by insisting that they impose copyrights and patents, we are destroying a balance in China that keeps a fragile situation in check. The consequences could be genocidal for them, and suicidal for us.
What we sould really do is get rid of copyright and patnet monopolies, and especially quit trying to impose them overseas. So just how many people are we willing to kill in the name of copyrights and patents?
Point is we will never know if he won Florida, because he went to the supreme court to stop the recount.
If this is the "usual way" to win an election, then we are seriouly fucked.
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
The standards they are rebelling against are structured contrary to the interests of the consumers. Let us thank them for their courage.
I will happily buy evd products as a consumer
Competition is great!.
The article has one mistake I can see so far.
3G does not specify the radio technology to be used. As such who cares what radio they are using. 3G is about flexibiity as you can use whatever radio tech u want (including 802.11 if it pleases u) and you can use either circuit switched or packet switched core networks. So in that aspect unless they are going to come up with the whole of their own 3rd generation specs they'll not be preventing use of 3G just making their own radio.
some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
Since when have the Chineese ever cared about the rest of the world? Hmm. They were the first to go out explore the globe and say "there's little of value out there." That's been their policy for the last several thousand years. Why should they change now? China seems to have a better hold on its peasants now than at any other time in its history. How many peasant revolts, or merchant class revolutions have they had to put down lately?
This applies to the many other comments that have claimed that china has a market of 1.3 billion consumers ... it doesnt. Particularly consumers of IT products. At the VERY best it would have 100 million consumers of IT products. The percentage of the population that are consumers of these products are significantly lower than in "more developed" countries
Is there a web site that tells how CDMA works? When I have searched for a technical explanation I have mostly gotten discussions on who is using it, acronyms for the various flavors, etc. but nothing that gives me any idea of what radio signals are transmitted and how they are received.
"To inisist on the pristine meaning of the word Communism it to take the attitude of Humpty Dumpty - words mean what I want them to mean. Unfortunately, the world has changed the meaning of the word Communism, as many other words."
Nope. It's just that most people have not been educated correctly.
Just because someone calls themselves something is not a reason for anyone else to call them that.
I'm still recommending "The Tyranny of Words" by Stuart Chase. Words define how you think. When you start confusing the definitions of words, you lose the ability to understand the issues. Which is what many politicians want.
China is not "Communist Country".
China is a "Totalitarian Socialist State".
When you don't know the other person, then your base drives take over. Capitalism works the best in this case. The interactions are abstracted and defined in terms on money and property.
When you have a strong connection to the other person(s) (like in your family), then you treat them in a more Communistic (pure definition) manner.
Of course, specific individuals can vary from these.
And yes, I am a Michael-Moore-hugging-tinfoil-hatted conspiracy nut.
And no, your usofan republic is not a democracy, the current executive chief was not democratically elected, if he was elected at all.
The current USofAn external policy is like the elementary school bully: the morons flock behind it (Aznar & Blair) and it picks only on the smaller boys (Iraq), and it yellows in front of the bigger boys (China and even North Korea).
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
"some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world"
I wonder who is funding the so called experts that come to such a conclusion, seems a bit patronising to me.
I'm a rabbit startled by the headlights of life
China will balance the counter-trend of the US forcing other nations to adopt technologies, standards, and policies that are for US benefit. Look at how the US is forcing their IP policy on the rest of the world, and how Europe and Australia have recently capitulated. We rant at the problems with the US patent system, and the DMCA, but the US uses strong-arm tactics so that countries adopt our problematic approaches. Next will be a slog of worldwide litigation. Free as in speech and bear will disappear. In this sense, China is a breath of fresh air.
*** While this may force foreign firms to lower their patent fees, some experts warn that China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world." ***
I doubt this will force foreign firms to lower their patent fees, and further doubt that the Chinese goverment cares much about isolating themselves from the rest of the world.
And when you've got billions of people in your market, you don't have to care about the rest of the world's standards.
And being that China has an authoritarian government with an emphasis in military might, we should be very concerned they would make the rest of the world adapt to undocumented standards. I'm sorry, but I don't want the internet controlled by routing hardware made in China with built-in backdoors that their military would have access to in a time of war.
Life is not for the lazy.
Maybe the Marxists are right. What happens when Free software rules supreme? And then throw in plentiful nanomolecular assemblers, and a space elevator.
In short, the marginal cost for everything becomes zero. Knowlege is free. You can have anything you want without buying or selling anything.
And I suppose RMS will call it all a Brave GNU/World.
This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
I had no idea I was being "generous" or "kind" when I paid my taxes. I thought that in order for an action to be classified as such it needed to be done on one's own initiative, by one's own free will. Mandatory funding of works "for the common good" is not generosity, so describing socialism as such is foolish.
common sense: noun
What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
TD-SCDMA becomes the most used cell phone technology
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
...China risks isolating itself...
Anybody that pays any attention to the news will tell you the Chinese government is more likely to see this as a benefit than a "risk".
GSM vs. CDMA? We have both here(US), and for the most part they both equally suck. Same can be said for lots of standards. Somehow people have it in their head that global automagically equals better.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
"China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world."
What do they have, like a billion people? The United States is pushing 300 million. I think the author is under the mistaken impression that most of the world is 1st World i.e. US, EU, Canada. In reality, most of "the world" is Asian with China and India accounting for a good 2 billion(Don't know for sure but that's close isn't it?) alone.
If China comes up with a standard that hundreds of millions of people could find a use for you can bet that hungry capitalists with bend over backwards to accommodate that kind of market, human rights violations be damned...
This is a good start.
OK, so the standards will be incompatible with six billion (potential) users abroad, but internally consistent with one billion?
A billion people on the same platform can't be wrong. *hyuk* [/stupid semiracist paraphrase]
Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
China certainly has reaped some of the rewards of the global economy. Their low standard of living means labor is cheap. Multinational companies are employing many Chinese people to manufacture their products. However these companies get to keep all the profits, leaving the Chinese with nothing more than wages earned.
If China continues to enforce domestic standards at the expense of international ones then it will stunt the growth of some of their industries. There will be no demand for their products outside of China. This will limit the market for Chinese products.
Anyone who thinks that the domestic market is sufficient should take a look at the average income of the Chinese. The US, with only a quarter of the population, has much more purchasing power.
But by electing representatives or voting for the continuation of such programs you are in fact supporting their existence and affirming them, which is a "generous" act. Payment of taxes could be construed as support, but not as directly since many would never want to face the consequences of evading taxation. Non-participation in a system can also be construed as support since you neither affirm nor disaffirm the programs of that system specifically but rather simply accept them, which would be passive affirmation of their acceptability. The driving force behind socialism is the affirmation that certain forms of generosity are in the common best interest of a society and thus acceptable. If you don't like something then work to change it, to do otherwise is to affirm it.
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
Your stepping outside the bounds of the definition here and revealing the inherent flaw in all man made civil governments: humans themselves.
Wikipedia: SocialismEven if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
They are, after all, manufacturing a great many of the electronic items that we buy.
Irrelevant. Manufacturing could shift to a different developing part of the world. If China makes it inconvenient to do business there that is good news for the rest of Asia, Central America, etc.
Extremely interesting post - which brings about the question of whether the ideas of communism and capitalism arose from buddhism/hinduism/etc and christianity respectively.
t ics/ap0008.html says
The former religions inherently believe that humans, by themselves are good and/or perfect, while christianity inherently believes that humans are imperfect/sinful/bad. Hence, the former religions stress more on attaining that perfect state, while christianity relies more on confessions etc to attain salvation.
For e.g., http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologe
"Since individuality is illusion, so is free will. If free will is illusion, so is sin. And if sin is illusion, so is hell. Perhaps the strongest attraction of Eastern religions is in their denial of sin, guilt and hell.
Thus the two essential points of Christianity -- sin and salvation -- are both missing in the East. If there is no sin, no salvation is needed, only enlightenment. We need not be born again; rather, we must merely wake up to our innate divinity. If I am part of God. I can never really be alienated from God by sin. "
I agree, same goes for all other medias :
: ...
if China use a different standart, poeple in China won't be corrupted by unauthorized imported capitalist { Movies | News | ideas | other medias }.
Comming soon
- a new Chineese incompatible mail system
- a new Chineese incompatible hypertext format
- a new Chineese incompatible publication format
- and so one
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
If China wants to develop their own tech I say who cares? Maybe they can get us all 64-bit PC soon. :)
Besides, if they can invent competing tech for less $$$ then we're getting screwed anyway.
This is also an issue of control. If all Chinese electronics follow Chinese standards. Then they won't be able to utilize foreign media. Additionally the Chinese will only authorize those parties they deem usefull to use their standards. They can now control entirely the flow of information in their country, lock, stock, and barrel. Imagine if they develop a highly advanced operating system that becomes the defacto standard in the country, that also happens to have huge gaping back doors to allow the government to monitor everything. Or a DVD standard that prohibits foreign DVD's from functioning. I think this is their ultimate goal.
Sir, there is a dragon outside with an armful of armor. He's inquiring if we offer free refills.
Which is why I keep pointing out that "Communism" is not the correct phrase. The correct phrase is "Totalitarian Socialist State".
It is possible to have a Capitalist economic model AND a Totalitarian Socialist political model.
People use "Communism" to mean both the economic model and the political mode.
How is N Korea a "Bigger boy" than Iraq, and you can't say nukes, because the US believed that Iraq had more WMD's than N korea. (at least when the war started). Guess your logic doesn't make any sense.
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
US trade pressure kills China's home-grown tech By Andrew Orlowski in San Francisco Published Friday 23rd April 2004 20:48 GMT Read More... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/23/china_3g/
I think a lot people are only looking at this from an American perspective. Governments all over the world have seen the U.S. govt and U.S. corporations at work and have seen themselves screwed by the Americans. They are only trying not get tied down with American products. I wouldn't be surprised to someday see that the whole world had adopted open standards and the U.S. was the only country left holding the Microsoft bag.
We (the "West") really need a shift in viewpoint when it comes to China. The world's centre of gravity, in terms of population, is in Asia. What is happening in reality is that, China is isolating the rest of the world, not the other way round. It is rapidly reclaiming the place that it had in world politics before the 19th century - the Middle Kingdom, centre of the world.
"Mao Tse Tung said change must come / change must come through the barrel of a gun" - Alabama 3
(no, I am not Chinese)
I would say Communism bears some interesting foundations that could definitely have originated and been influenced by eastern thought. But certain branches of Christianity, such as those associated with the 'holiness' movement would not necessarily choose a capitalist over communist society because they believe that in salvation Christians find perfection of the sort needed to sustain a communist system. More orthodox Christianity would probably best fit in a socialist structure since it accepts the inherent nature of mankind while also embracing the 'kindness' which is a part of the Christian message. That is why I would say that for socialism to truly flourish it would need to embrace either a religion or at least compatible religions that had charity and kindness as a part of there overall theme and message. Or adopt some kind of secularism that establishes generosity and does not promote greed to much, but without a higher moral authority how would one establish such a secularism; unless mankind is truly good, which I would say is not the case and thus that brand of secularism is impossible.
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
So tell me what alternatives are banned in china, as far as business is concerned? western movies? venture capitalists? internet startups? stock markets? jeans? rap music? Have you ever been there to have such a strong opinion? People seem to enjoy so much of the fantasy of having a communist enemy. Those days are way gone, wake up!
Yes, there is no real freedom of press yet, there is no real election yet, but those are coming. The Confucius said thousands of year ago, people will learn to be polite when they have enought food and cloths. Political reform will definately happen. BTW, I am not so sure if you will like it when china becomes a full democracy, since people here care MUCH more about "america friendly" then real democracy in foreign governments? Any arguments to that?
Anyways, what does communism have to do with the discussions of technical standards and the greedy world of business?
Also don't forget wifi when they put a ban on importing of forign made wifi devices, china has developed their own also! i went out and brought my wifi before then done that, i don't want to use some crappy -yes- crappy all in chinese wifi product that doesn't work with my wifi enabled devices! also i've noticed the people in my area using crappy made chinese wifi products have been knocking out my own Netgear 56g product on all channels! arseholes
they done this so their local compaines can catch up and they done it to get around the patents, but ask yourself this, where did they get the original concept from? isn't this a true breach of interlectual property?
i might live here but i don't like what they are doing, i want choice in what product i buy! sorry but somone needs to exploit their system like the linux people do to m$.. exspecially when they say current wifi standards are not secure!
Also look at their current choice over imported movies, as they will be banning those for a 3 month period to clear the cinemas of sexy footage and violance, protect the kids they say.. more like brain wash them. but then again you can get it on the streets just as fast. also look at the ban on imported games, to take violance out of the market, what the hell is this? a good game start with realistic guns, lots of blood and mass killing, looks like harry pothead won't make it this year, nore lard of the dings.. oh well these can also be picked up on the streets. i know of 5 dvd shops and 3 games shops in a 10 minute radius from where i live. hmm government ban just means these shops sell more.
my 3 quid
I say good for China. There is no reason why they should be locked into our standards and our markets. They know that if they don't define their own standards, they will end up importing far more too much from the West. Defining their own standards is the only chance an up-and-coming nation has against the existing economic superpowers. China does not want to be just another third world country taking hand-me-downs from the big boys.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
If you believe the USofAn govment "believed that Iraq had more WMD's than N korea", then you are seriously deluded. My logic has no flaws.
1. The USofAn executive *knew*, since the beginning. there were no WMDs in Iraq. WMDs in Iraq was proved to be a complete lie. Ah, and they knew that Saddam had no Al-Qaeda links, too.
2. OTOH, NKorea has at least one functional nuke.
3. NKorea can be smaller than the USofA, but Bush &c won't risk the South Korean people -- and the USofAn troops stationed there -- going ka-boom.
4. yes, I can say nukes, nukes, nukes.
5. Guess who gave Saddam the only WMDs and WMD tech he ever possessed? Hint: starts with USof and ends with A.
pfff... ez argument.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Except that people (the masses) vote for programs which benifit them, few individuals vote out of some altruistic desire to do the right thing. Example: Who, in general, votes based on medicare policy? Answer: people who are either dependant upon government medicare or people who currently have no coverage. So how can socialized medicare be considered "generous" when the majority of people who vote positively on that issue have a vested interest in its passage?
Can you really interpret support for a candidate to be support for even the majority of that candidate's views. As a common example in the US, there are many single-issue voters on abortion in the US, some 80% of which go to pro-life candidates, which means in this election they go to Bush. Does their vote for Bush constitute support for, say, the war in Iraq? Not at all.
If it wasn't for candidates standing for a plethora of views many socialist programs would never be implemented. People aren't being generous when they cast a vote that leads to social programs as it is impossible for the overwhelming majority of the population to find a candidate they agree near 100% with. Thus, creeping socialism is an almost unavoidable sideffect of the democratic process.
common sense: noun
What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
Because remember, bashing your own country makes you a cool rebel ;)
Heres an essay I wrote against patents, I think it addresses your concers quite thouroughly....
Bitter Protest Against Patents
There seems to be this attitude that the suffering of slaves prior to 1850 was something that only happened back then. That it has nothing to do with now, that we are more civilized, more modern, more mature, and more sophisticated. With it comes the arrogance that what happened then, means nothing now, that what happened there has no value here, that the great torment and suffering back then can safely be ignored now as we blow off history and all the values that go with it in terms of understanding, freedom, markets, property, technology, and the post-industrial era.
Surely anyone who claimed that there is no "incentive" go grow cotton without slaves on the plantation would be considered a barbaric. But if someone claims that there is no "incentive" to create intellectual and knowledge works without patents, then society calls them enlightened. If someone had said that the great wealth of America rested on slavery as a property right and the plantation system, they were a foolish idiot. But if someone says that the great wealth of societies in the post industrial era rests on "Intellectual Property", then they are called wise. Anyone who says that slavery was about property rights and not control, is a liar. However, if they say that patents are not about control, but "Intellectual Property" then they are considered trustworthy. How about - if you don't like slavery - don't own slaves, and if you don't like patents no one forces you to buy those creations. How about - if you don't believe in slavery, you must be an anarchist, if you don't believe in patents you must be some kind of a communist. How about - you are a thief if you free slaves from the plantation, you are a thief when you copy "Intellectual Property".
So why are we spoon-feed these poor logical explanations over and over again? Because, like the assassin who befriends and mis-places his victims heart medications, rather than pull out a rifle and pop a bullet in the head. Like the rapist who drugs his victim, rather than attack her overtly and violently where all the scars, blood, and bruises can be detected.Patents are the pinnacle of quiet violence, they seem so innocent, they seem so sincere, and it is so hard to see any direct evil. After all, what could be less harmless then providing an incentive to inventors, right? But do they really promote invention - or just lock out and tie up inventions and discoveries that were likely to happen anyhow? Do they really help inventors, or do they hinder collaboration and sharing in a way that would put a police state to shame?
Perhaps the old lady has none to blame when her patented medication is too expensive to afford anymore. Who can the workers blame when the patented technology they bet their career on becomes useless as society migrates to less controlling technologies. Who can a child in Africa blame when they are dying of AIDS, and there are no generics to treat it! Who do we blame when researchers seeking a cure for cancer encounter massive obstacles to sharing individual research for fear that their peers will get one up on them, get a key patent, and lock them out! What do you do when a company buys up a patent on a safety device, but then decides not to use it nor let their competitors use it, other than watch people die who might not have otherwise. And all to often people just assume that every manufacturer having incompatible parts and appliances with every other manufacturer is a natural part of a free market, but is it? And does that really help our environment?
As people die because patents are either too costly and alternatives too sparse, and the needy go without, not because of genuine shortage, but because artificial human made restrictions. Perhaps we should ask what will our role be in the pages of history as society enters into the post industrial era? Will it be like the lost souls who tho
Just like the US with its use of NTSC television, obsolete pre-metric unit systems, 60 Hz 120V power, failure to comply with the Kyoto protocols, etc. What a bunch of mavericks. (Of course, 60 Hz is better for running clocks, so maybe we were right about that. I don't know who came up with 50 Hz and why.)
In Soviet Russia (and Red China, and Timbuktoo for that matter), American lifestyle is interested in YOU!
The recount had already happened. Twice. The redundant recount he stopped? For one thing, it was illegal under Florida law.
This is factually incorrect. In fact total manual recounts were mandated by Florida law when election results reached a threshold margin of error. That recount was never completed due to Bush V. Gore.
For another, it was an attempt by Gore to "roll the dice" again and again in a close election in order to try to have it come out his way.
Gore made a tactical mistake. He should have requested a manual recount of all the precincts, which would have met both the Florida recount statute and nullified an Equal Protection argument. However, (if you believe Gore's people) Gore wanted to finish the recount before the electoral college met to cast their votes, so he "conceded" the total recount and selected certain precincts he thought would best serve his case. According to the manual recount done by a consortium of newspapers after Bush's inauguration, Bush would have certainly lost a total recount of the entire state. However, he may have won had the state only recounted the specific precincts Gore requested, depending on which counting methodology was used (specific to rules for overvotes and undervotes). Another point to make is that manual recounts are by far the most accurate method of counting votes, regardless of GOP assertions to the contrary. In fact, Bush signed into Texas law a statute demanding manual recounts long before the Florida election. And Florida had done numerous manual recounts prior to the 2000 election going back for several decades.
And let's not discuss the numerous examples of election gaming and disenfranchisement by manipulating the Florida Felon list to the tune of over a hundred thousand innocent (mostly black) people. Or that almost all ballots tossed were primarily in black counties. Or that the Secretary of State (Kathryn Harris) was both the election supervisor for the state and the head of the Florida for Bush election committee, showing an obvious conflict of interest in her duties. Any fair person who looked into the specifics of that election would have to assume that the outcome was manipulated for political purposes both at the state executive level and by a partisan Supreme Court. SCOTUS has damaged their reputation for decades to come because of this. --M
GSM is European all right, but it's not French, it merely has a French name.
I'm European myself, so correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the American disdain for all things French a rather new thing?
Thanks. That is exactly what I was looking for. I need to use Wikipedia more often.
Call me paranoid, but this is an attempt by the Chinese government to take up what they see as their rightful place in the world.
Or maybe Chinese are (logicaly) not willing to be pushed by U.S. trying to get past their rightfull place in the world. In other words: Chinese are maybe just trying not to be ripped off by all the bad things (bad from consumer point of view, like overpriced but buggy software, overpriced licenses for stupid patents, ...) coming from abroad.
Essentialy it looks to me like they are acting as a sane consumer - they feel they are abused so they do something about it. That's maybe bad for some (non Chinese) companies or some other countries but why should Chinese care about those?
If some business pushes consumers (or some regime pushes people, ...) too far, it have to at least count with possibility of revolt. There is the choice between short-term (abusing policy) and long-term (honest and fair policy) with the long-term option being more difficult but ... I'm geting long and drifting OT so I leave the rest unfinished.
hany
China risks isolating itself if it creates standards that are incompatible with the rest of the world.
This is funny. China has a quarter of the worlds population, easy. It can be an easy scenerio for China to make the world incompatible with China. (Notice the order, gives a different feel doesn't it?)
Try it: Microsoft Windows is incompatible with this software. For example.
Fox News is not banned in Canada, it was simply denied a broadcast license by Canada's equivalent of the FCC. Sorta like how Al-Jezzera(sp?) is banned in the US.
I live in Shanghai. You know the town? It has the fastest pasenger train in the world, the "maglev". The whole place feels more modern in many ways than 80% of US cities.
Now China is growing up quickly. I lived in Taiwan for a decade, that country grew up fast. But China is like a weed on steroids, growing rapidly, developing complex domestic markets for everything and anything, and, like Japan in its early stages China is setting its own standards.
Ever wonder why in Japan you can get 3G phones and 3G service? 1.3 megapixel phone with video? Why can't the US consumer buy that? Oh yeah, the US uses its own standards for cell phones. They would never use some "foreign" standard, especially one that is from the Japanese, that would mean royalties. Why not develop your own, hence CDMA.
Heck, I was using my single GSM cell phone number in 1996 in Taiwan, I could roam in Europe, Middle East, Asia using the same number and SIM card, but NOT the USA. GSM only became available in the USA recently.
China is doing the right thing by encouraging local standards and locally developed technology that is not dependent on the rest of the world. It is in the best interest of its people.
Now is it in the best interest of US Citizens that we obliterate sovereign countries and the US go bust doing it? Guess that is OK, China is financing the whole thing anyway buying T-bills! It is a mad world indeed.
Real men don't need signitures!!!
with free and open standards home built...
Sounds like WE will be the ones isolated not THEM.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
The article has several good points but got a little silly calling the Chinese government "secretive". sublim/Echelon/sublim Market confusion, ha, that is competition. Communist, well maybe, but its one of the most capitalistic countries on Earth. The conclusion the article drew, that China would isolate itself, is a laugher. China is a huge chunk of the human population and is self-sufficient in every way. Immagine if every device in China was incompatible with the rest of the world, then only the bigwigs in China would be making all the money and controlling all the content, and therefore the populace. You have to understand that if it meant going back to the stone age, China would do it, just to keep the ruling class in power. The dirty politics of monopolist big communications business is on the same level as in the United States. If you follow the history of Qualcomm you will see that China has basically, ass-raped them. If China didn't have a brutal population control in place, half the world would be Chinese and we all would be outsiders. To the average Chinese, we are but a tiny part of _their_ world.
Other countries/companies create competing standards, too. If Sony doesn't want to pay royalties, they come out with a competing standard, get market share, and cross-license. Don't believe it? Next time you buy your CD+R/-R/+RW/-RW/DVD+R/-R/+RW/-RW/RAM drive you may have have to choose between Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, or now, the Chinese EVD. Remember that only about 45% of US households have a DVD player, even though they cost $39. The MPAA would love to replace this DVD standard with a more secure medium anyway.
Instead of abandoning the patent system, China is using it in a competitive way. My grandpa invented things and patented them just to have US corporations work around his patents as soon as he filed them. If you file a patent, you are screwed, if you don't file, you are screwed. I hope this TD-SCDMA is not a work around for S-CDMA, as S-CDMA was invented by someone I happen know. (I hope they pay him.)
China is its own world; kinda like a whole other planet. A lot of Chinese have never even heard of other races, let alone, seen another person from one. I have lived in China for short periods of time. While there, I felt like a Martian walking down the street, because of the excitement it would cause. When I step out to the curb, people would lock onto me with their eyes, and stare until they crashed their bike or motorcycle, two blocks away. The police would shoo me away, so then I would step into a store and the sales girls would all run away laughing. In this area, they had seen Caucasians on TV, but not in RL. Everywhere I went, they would gasp "Gwy-Lo!". Once, while passing a restaurant at night, one patron stood, pointed and yelled; it was like being Godzilla. After a few weeks, it gets old. But, I digress... Basically, the only control other countries have is to control the flow of Chinese products and hope they don't move into your major industries.
Why use GSM when you can have multiple incompatible "standards" that no one else in the world uses. It "works" for the US, so why can't they pull it of?
In short, the marginal cost for everything becomes zero. Knowlege is free. You can have anything you want...
At Alice's Restaurant?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Is it possible to receive it by a dish? If so, then - given the price of the equipment needed - denying the terrestrial licence is fairly meaningless.
The Chinese powers-that-be want tight controls over the Chinese populace. By developing their own standards, they have more of a captive audience; like getting locked into proprietary software.
According to one wise man, "Belief is premature cognitive committment." NO AMOUNT OF BELIEF ESTABLISHES A FACT.
> No thinking person denies there are problems with the US system of government, it's current
> government, and many of the social, political and economic systems we have here.
> We don't run slave labor camps, populated by people whose opinion on political matters differs
> from that of the government.
Don't be so certain about THAT!?! The US has 1 in 37 adults living behind bars; the highest incarceration level in the world. Many US states "farm" their prison inmates out as slave labour!
US notches world's highest incarceration rate
This rate is FIVE times higher than China! So who's living in the Free World?
"If current trends continue, it means that a black male in the United States would have about a 1 in 3 chance of going to prison during his lifetime. . a white male, 1 in 17."
Which nation is a police state?
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(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Isn't it "political" when the right-to-vote is denied those who've completed their sentences? That, due to the higher numbers of black Americans passing through the prison system - FAR more B.A. are being denied the right-to-vote?
I notice that you ignored the "slave labour" issue?
I do not deny the lack of freedom, etc. in China; but its still surprising what's lacking in the US!
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(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"