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Is That Pirated Software?
underpar writes "According to this ZDNet.com article, Microsoft 'has launched a pilot program in which some visitors to the main Windows download page are being asked to let the software maker check to see whether their copy of the operating system is licensed.' The check is not required, but after the desired 20,000 users go through the program they might change their tune."
I just walked past a copy of WinXP Home Edition in a "Bargain Bin" at Costco, on sale for $299 CAD... so who are the pirates? Linux is free. I could see maybe $99 or something, but it's overpriced and bug ridden. So if you want to know why people are not paying Microsoft, it's a no-brainer. If it's overpriced, loaded with bugs and unstable in any way, paying for it seems like shooting yourself in the foot. Every time XP shows the blue screen of death, I get buyer's remorse.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Would you like my name and address and a signed confession before I can get this security patch?
..in which some visitors to the main Windows download page are being asked..
;-)
Microsoft lets you download windows from their site now?
Who are these people? Being a freelance computer tech (and knowing many others in my trade), I know exactly who these folks are. They're the ones who got a particularly good deal when buying a home-made computer from someone's garage... or, more likely, those who had an OEM copy installed with their retail computer, messed it up dreadfully, and whoever worked on it decided to forego using the "restore disks" (which are often missing, since many people have no idea what they're for, and which are generally dreadfully broken in the first place) and install a questionable copy of XP. I've faced this dillema myself, before, but I always opt to try to fix the existing installation, or inform the customer that their decision to visit every gambling and porn site under the sun necessitates that they buy a new copy of Windows.
These are the folks who can often be genuinely uncertain whether their copy of Windows is legitimate. These are the folks who click "OK" on everything anyway. The question is what they have to gain from this knowledge, and, more importantly, what Microsoft has to gain.
What information can Microsoft harvest, exactly? They surely know how widespread these practices are; after all, they practically encourage them with their cutthroat OEM policies. Also, they insist (at least according to the article) that they won't treat those with an unlicensed copy any differently from those with a legitimate one. My guess, among other things, is they'll start harvesting illegitimate license codes (like they have in the past... FCKGW anyone?) and perhaps block them a year in advance.
So they'll probably use this to keep pirated windows boxes from downloading windows updates... so what? You can have microsoft send you a CD with the latest patches on it for free. Granted, it takes a little longer than a 1-20 minute download, but it's still a viable solution for those of you with the urge to use pirated software.
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
Those whose copies are found not to be genuine will be encouraged to go back to the company from whom they bought the PC or software upgrade. They'll also be given other information on obtaining genuine software before being allowed to download whatever software they were seeking. In its current form, the program offers no particular benefit for those who are running licensed software.
oooooh, i'm shaking in my pirate boots!
Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
then what's the point....What's scary is that someday they'll lock the pirates out of patches...Leads to two scenarios -
:)
1.) Increase of unpatched, demon, zombie PCs
or
2.) Linux Migration!
You could probably piss a hell off a lot of people, who as TFA states "namely, people who bought a computer that they thought had a legitimate copy of Windows." You're gonna force them into buying a new copy?
And that still doesn't get around ordering a patch cd in the mail.
-thewldisntenuff
My MythTV HowTo
...will it find all your stolen SCO code?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
.... They are asking a question on top of the check that is happening anyways...
"You are not running a Windows operating system. Therefore, you are a pirate. Please click [Ok] to send us money anyway."
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
So once again the ones that Microsoft leaves in the cold are the unwitting consumers who had their grandson install it for them.
A few weeks ago I was trying a link to the next version of Windows Update, which was not publically released but someone had published it somewhere on the net. It checked my machine and told me my XP key was invalid. (My machine has a VLK 6n1 XP installed on it.) So there are indeed some windowsupdate URLs which do check and do reject!
p.s. I own three legal copies of XP of course, but the slipstreamed SP2 disc is just handy and the only one I keep laying around.
You mean they haven't been doing this since the birth of ActiveX anyway?
Well well well, you learn something new everyday, my respect-o-meter for Microsoft has just gone up a tiny fraction.
Oh, wait, they're doing it now, back down it goes...
FGD 135
If the user is running a VLK edition of Windows with a CD-Key other than the FCKGW one - or with the 640 PID, depending one how stringent they're being - how do Microsoft know that it's a priated copy?
OK, so activation cracked copies will be fairly easy to ID, but if you've got a corporate copy (which most pirated releases are anyway) and a valid key there's no way to tell, surely.
---
...online extension to Windows... that just freaks me out...
Thank you for your interest in Windows Update
Windows Update is the online extension of Windows that helps you get the most out of your computer.
You must be running a Microsoft Windows operating system in order to use Windows Update.
---
.
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
Windows Update is the online extension of Windows that helps you get the most out of your computer.
You must be running a Microsoft Windows operating system in order to use Windows Update.
My wife uses a licensed copy of XP that she bought in college. She's still a grad student, but how would they know? Are they basically looking for commonly duplicated license keys?
If you're thinking about modding this comment up, this is the part you should consider insightful: "I haven't RTFA. Maybe I should read first and comment later."
Boy, what am attempt at some lame assed implementation of MS Big Brother.
I wonder what happens if you visit with Firefox. They are obviously using an ActiveX control for this, so will FF users pass right by or be denied access to downloads? Windows Update won't work anyway, but will this affect manually downloads?
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
I like playing games. Given the choice I'd play them on a free operating system, but until that's a reality I'll cough up for Windows every few years. I'm not even convinced that it's overpriced, to be honest. I can buy XP Home for the price of two games. As far as my gaming habit goes, it's a minor expense.
Bug-ridden, yeah, but (non-rhetorical question approaching) are there any viable alternatives?
I fail to see how asking me if Microsoft can snoop around in my PC is going to give me a "better experience". It will be a worse experience, if for no other reason than having the experience interrupted to ask the privacy-invading question.
GJAS35 AB8CF L8KXT H4N1J ZY27A
(MS Lawyers - as far as I know, that's not a real key)
This is one of those glorious ideas that look great on paper and have absolutely no effect on piracy.
There was a time when Microsoft began blocking SP1 downloads for WinXP for users using one of a list of very common keys. I suppose it may have prevented a few people from downloading the service pack, but the vast majority of users who were using these keys either found a hack to change their key to something randomly generated, or simply downloaded the service pack elsewhere.
Go back a little further and try to remember the furore over the required online or phone registration of new WinXP installs. For the poeple who do not desire to pay for their operating system, this was a similar inconvenience. Easily circumvented, but an annoyance to legitimate users.
The music industry implements protection so weak that it can be circumvented by pressing the 'shift' key, but breaks CDs for legitimate users. Nobody who wants an illegal track or two is deterred by this. If they can't get the music off the CD they'll just go to a P2P network and download it from there.
Time and time again we see media providers and software companies implement these rediculous attempts to spite casual pirates. The only people they ever end up bothering are there own customers, and in the rare case there is a backlash and their sales are hurt by their own arrogance, who do they blame? Pirates, of course.
I want the fire back.
Why did they release the XP "corporate" verstion which allows installation of XP without teh required online registration?
It's apparently worked quite well to protect Citrix and MS Terminal Server from being used.
I believe MS likes having everyone use Windows, whether it's paid for or not.
What are people going to do, if they can't get Windows pirated? Buy it? Nope.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
I can't justify buying Windows XP while Windows 2000 is still quite capable of playing all the latest games, which is the only real use for Windows now. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm often too afraid to download software for Windows, in fear that it will screw my system up, and so I tend to use my Linux box for most everything except gaming nowdays. That said, with activation, and everything else around these days, I don't think it's too big an issue. If you use the software, you should pay for it, or use something that you don't have to pay for, like Linux.
I honestly wonder if it's even possible to effectively determine whether or not a user is using a pirated copy of Windows. Unlike an online game or something where no two users can share a CD-Key and be online at the same time, Windows is just on operating system, and can't always have internet access. Also, many OEM and corporate PCs share CD Keys, and there's really no way Microsoft can tell how many PCs the software is licensend on. Besides, the time Microsoft gets their copy protection working 100% is the time many people decide weather to spend $300 on Windows or $0 on Linux.
When I go there, all i get is this:
"Thank you for your interest in Windows Update
Windows Update is the online extension of Windows that helps you get the most out of your computer.
You must be running a Microsoft Windows operating system in order to use Windows Update."
Phooey
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is that OS written by convicted criminals? Now that's a check I'd like to see.
I bet microsoft is watching IP addresses. If they see you turn around and leave when confronted they make a note. If they see a cluster from some company then the BSA will get a phone call. Obviously no one with pirated software and a brain is going to let them search. But of course it might uncover some cases of "shared" software between several computers.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
"They'll also get their downloads if they do participate and their copy of Windows turns out to be unlicensed.
[...]
The company is not requiring customers to have a genuine copy of Windows to get SP2, though it has blocked a few registration codes that have been known for several years as pirated".
It's one thing for them to block service packs and require a serial number, but it's quite another thing for them to do the whole product activation and mandatory serial checking approach. People by nature feel that they own their software or should. The biggest problem that copyright holders face is that the more they pull, the more they are going against human nature. Eventually, the result will be either people losing interest or aggressively "stealing software" and/or supporting political action that is antagonistic to corporate software interests.
If Microsoft were smart, they'd keep working the OEM channels, cut the cost of a new copy of Windows XP Home to $100 with none of the product activation junk and charge $50 per retail upgrade. If Microsoft is so worried about people pirating its products, they should extend steep discounts to their customers who buy off the shelf copies. Microsoft could make good money charging only $50 for Home and $100 for Pro upgrades for Windows.
When in doubt, cut your profit margin down and try to sell more copies of your product. Since digital goods are so cheap to fabricate physical copies of, there is no reason why Microsoft couldn't experiment with much cheaper retail prices for a version of Windows. Hell, they might find that if they stop heckling their legitimate users and cut prices that the desktop Linux threat all but goes away.
Let's face it, what incentive right now would there be for people to choose desktop linux for small business and home use if Windows had a no hassle licensing system and was sold that cheap?
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
..is windows piracy. If it WAS cheap enough, people would pop for the Cd and install it.
I got some nifty proof, too, a similar large company gives away it's disks, and has for years now-AOL. They afford it on the margin of a certain small (but still over-all large) segement of the population who will install their software and sign up for net service.
Microsoft could sell the OS on a disk for ten dollars or something like that, and charge another ten a year (something cheap) for updates, and still be billionaires.. Most folks would buy the disk and the legit key then. Note I said most, not all, but I think most would buy it, at least in western/industrialised nations with a decent enough median income.
Their price is not only ridiculous, it's outright scandalous. It's an affront to anyone who's thinking. If their products didn't come pre-installed on new computers, there's no way in heckfire they would sell for what they are asking. Keeping it as a "stealth" product via bundling and collusion with the vendors has been the ticket to their success, off the shelf sales are most likely no where's near where they make most of their money, at least with the base OS. 95 and 98 people were standing in line to get, by ME it slowed down, 2000 hit the doldrums, and XP although on maybe 1/2 the active boxes on the net came mostly with new machines when folks upgraded hardware. It's just lost any "new/shiny/gotta haveit" appeal, because we are 20 years into mass computer adoption now, 10 in a large way. People just aren't as gullible any longer. They'll upgrade with a new box, and that's it, as long as MS lives in delusion land where a simple computer OS is somehow "worth" well over a hundred dollars heading to 200$. Not happening when an entire new computer can be had for not much more than that..
IMO anyway-anyones MMV of course
CIA has created a link from their home page, saying:
Internal sources indicate that the program will be made mandatory sometime during the next months.
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
And yet, if I asked a random girl "Is what you're carrying real?" I'd get slapped or worse.
If you purchased MS's product, then you have nothing to hide - everything is legal. The only ones who be worrying about this are those who pirated Windows.
I've purchased 2 Win XP Pro licenses for my 2 PCs and will purchase another when I get my 3rd PC. I have no problem making Bill Gates a few hundred dollars richer - it's called Capitalism. And Win XP is a great OS, far superior for my desktop needs compared to BSD or Linux. Besides, I always purchase the OEM versions which are only $140 if you also buy a qualified hardware item such as CPU, RAM, HD, Video, or MB (and maybe more items as well).
excellent tactic by microsoft to drive more users away from windows.
i'm 100% supportive of this, i hope microsoft does indeed make the checking mandatory (along with all the false positives that will arise, like the XP activation code fiascos).
Are those breasts real?
/cops a feel
I really wonder if MS would so have such a lax attitude towards piracy if GNU/Linux wasn't around? I'm guessing no. To many, an easily obtained, free pirated copy of XP is better than a truly free copy of GNU/Linux. Something MS is banking on since they are better off keeping eveyone possible away from GNU/Linux even if it digs into the short term bottom line.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
Honestly, they are the BIGGEST software company in the history of the world. Do you honestly think they care if your copy is pirated?
You'd think they'd be more concerned about maintaining a strong place in the PC market than who has registered what. I'm sure they'd rather you have a pirated copy of XP than a machine decidated to Linux!
Let's just say all machines had pirated copies of windows on em... well, MS would still dominate the market. Even if windows was free, they'd still profit like mad.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
I wonder if they'll be surprised at the results... I think yes, because they're "high and mighty Microsoft." But then I think no, because Microsoft has a tendency to look down on the entire computer-using world.
Your ad here.
You won't generally get a bluescreen in XP because, by default, XP will reboot immediately when it encounters a blue screen condition. (See Control Panel | System | Startup and Recovery -- Automatic Restart).
(I leave my PC on 24/7 and only discovered this when I would return home and my PC was magically back at a fresh reboot state. For a while I thought I had a hardware problem because if Windows had crashed I would've seen a blue screen halt, right?)
While I get fewer blue screens then I did with 98, I get MORE blue screens than I did with Windows 2k.
Those Macs SURE DO LOOK NICE Don't they?
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
Cop1: Sir, may we search your vehicle?
You: Sure, no problem
Cop2: (opens trunk, plants item)
Cop2: What do we have here?
Cop1: Step out of the car sir
You: That's not mine!
Cop1: Sure sir.
They're going after the scumbag resellers that sell these pirated/OEM copy to some naïve sucker at full retail. Good riddance says I.
generally.
I do have a license for Photoshop Elements 2 though.
Like many nerds with a job, I upgrade components in my PC frequently. I have a legitimate retail copy of WinXP Pro. I have a home-built PC, which sits happily next to my Powerbook G4. A couple months ago, I upgraded the motherboard and RAM, and took the opportunity to reinstall WinXP (as I typically need to about once a year). When I called the Windows activation department in Bangalore, I learned something new...
Lady: I can help you with activation. First I need to ask you a couple questions.
Me: Ok.
Lady: How many computers is this copy of Windows XP installed on.
Me: One.
Lady: Why are you reinstalling Windows?
Me: I bought a new computer case. (I just said this off the top of my head, not thinking anything of it.)
Lady: Well, I'm sorry. You can only activate Windows XP on one machine.
Me: It is one machine. I've transferred all the same parts to a new case.
Lady: You can't do that.
In the end, I had to call back and make up another reason. This was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard. The woman insisted that I could not change the case it's in, but I could change EVERYTHING ELSE. She kept telling me to read the license agreement.
The bottom line is that MS will slowly but surely reign in the piracy. This is just a first step. The Windows activation is pretty lame, because if you have a legit number you can just keep calling and (re)installing all over.
The moral of this story is that Linux promoters should do all they can to help Microsoft stop Windows Piracy. Just like the best way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it rigorously, the best way to convince people of how expensive Windows really is, is to make sure they are paying for it.
As much as everyone here "hates" Windows, it seems *some* here actually use it? Windows and Microsoft have a lot of problems. But that does not give you the right to steal it.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
i installed win2k3 on my laptop earlier this year.. and I wouldn't update because it would tell me that I had an invalid key (which I did!) and then I came across this russian keygen that made VLKs and windows update had no problems with it. I also threw away my harddrive that day and switched to linux.
God is real unless declared as int
Q. Why is Windows so expensive?
A. Microsoft does everything it can to offer the best possible value for customers' software investments. We believe that the product's features and functionality, along with continuous improvements, are more than enough to justify its price.
Truly fascinating, especially considering that Windows doesn't come with even close to half the functionality of a free linux-based system.
I know some people think open source advocates bash Microsoft because it's cool. (Personally, it's because I despise their business practices.) Also, many people somehow think that all open source advocates think linux is perfect. (It isn't. There are a number of flaws that should be addressed.)
However my linux system comes with a stable kernel, a choice of GUI desktop systems, editors, compilers, interpreters, office suites, productivity enhancement packages, games, etc., NONE of which cost a dime. Windows costs a significant amount of money and comes with... umm... notepad, MS Paint, freecell, and Spider? Oh wait... can't forget minesweeper and wordpad and the few (largely useless) system tools in there. Not much along the way of making the computer very useful, though.
MS Windows is a good value for the money? Don't make me laugh.
bytesmythe
Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
-- Scott Meyer
...I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request... means no.
(j/k I use Linux).
FLR
Obviously not many people, legal or otherwise, are going to click "yes". My guess is that Microsoft doesn't care. I think what they're trying to do is gradually acquaint users with the notion that these checks will become gradually more commonplace. After awhile, they may become compulsory. After all, if you heat the water up too fast the frog hops out...
Simple, I don't want to be part of their license tracking system. Win2k didn't require activation but XP does.
The computer is mine, I bought the components and built it with my own hands. Those bastards can get stuffed. I'll run Win2k until it isn't useful as a dual boot solution for playing games. Hopefully by then Cedega will be good enough to play everything i'm interested in playing.
MS-DOS wouldn't have become as popular as it was, and Windows in its turn, if they weren't allowing rampant piracy via lack of copy protection and winking at the pirates. This hypocritical attempt to maximize profits is a bunch of bullshit and will ultimately result in Microsoft's downfall once they piss off the wrong entity. They may have done so already.
Anyone who thinks Microsoft is justified in the measures they are taking at this point is either a total shill or ignorant of history.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
I use my NetMd (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00 008WIX2/qid=1095469503/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xg l23/002-1711149-4506439?v=glance&s=electronics&n=5 07846) and guitarport (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-f orm/002-1711149-4506439) everyday: I had to stop using Linux, which I really enjoyed getting into and using over Microsoft Windows full time as home user (for about 3 years by the way). My soundcard manufacturer's advanced surround sound virtual imaging software also insn't available for linux. My point is, even if linux is free, doesn't mean it's a solution all users can turn to, even if we want to (because frankly I know that features, like bash scripting is more powerful and enjoyable than anything MSwindows has natively - I'm a CS student ffs). So we have no option but to play along with an operating system we would rather not use. It sucks, but it's the way it is...I'm sick making major changes in my computer OS lifestyle every time I buy the latest piece of hardware, so until hardware makers start playing along, which won't happen for a while (if ever for the forseeable future), the only thing I can do is use Windows (I've had my netmd for 4 years, and it still won't work on linux successfully, and Sony doesn't care). We don't have a choice, and MS know this. This it what scares me: when we see major hardware manufacturers joining up with MS, because it's like, when you're buying a piece of hardware you're tying yourself down to an OS as well - it's awful - but it's either that or not use the great features of modern hardware technology. HARDWARE MAKERS - PLEASE STOP PUTTING US IN THIS SITUATION!!
"You know you don't act like a scientist, you're more like a game show host." Dana Barret
This is big time Piracy.
I totally agree with this. Not only does it increase their market share it creates free tech support to "real customers" by all the techies that pirated it. You know if you have pirated XP you are probably your moms best friends dogs "computer guy", and instead of calling M$ they call you.
adventure-today.com
Thank you for your interest in Windows Update
Windows Update is the online extension of Windows that helps you get the most out of your computer.
You need to be running a version of Internet Explorer 5 or higher in order to use Windows Update.
Download the latest version of Internet Explorer
Once Internet Explorer is installed, you can go to the Windows Update site by typing http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com into the address bar of Internet Explorer.
If you prefer to use a different Web browser, updates to Windows may be downloaded from the Microsoft Download Center.
Typical canned response
1. They have a right to deny service to the folks who have pirated copies.
2. If you have a legitimate copy you have nothing to worry about.
3. If you have a pirated copy and have nothing against Microsoft go buy a legal one NOW.
4. If you have a pirated copy and are against Microsoft, then STOP USING WINDOWS instead of whining that it's overpriced, bug-ridden and poorly designed. There are at least TWO alternatives right now (MacOS X, and Linux), so there should no longer be any excuses.
every computer i've bought has come with a windows OS. now, i realize that some people build their own systems from scratch, but by far the majority of folks purchase pre-built mass produced systems with windows included.
... and invariably the result was at best slow and klunky and at worst unusable.
... you're still in for a poor experience. i personally tend to do limited upgrades and instead save for a better system somewhere down the road. i think this is the path what most people follow.
now, for every one of those systems, the hardware in the pre-built box was inadequate to run any higher version of windows other than what shipped with the system. i tried it in several cases (probably because i had too much time on my hands)
sure, some people do serious system upgrades, but unless you're upgrading the processor + graphics + memory +
maybe if you build your own system then your also the type of person that doesn't run windows.
It's not too far off -
:)
Answer these questions on the card given to you on the plane:
---------
Do you have a communicable disease, physical or mental disorder, or are you a drug abuser or addict?
Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?
Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were you involved, in any way, in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies?
If you answered "Yes" to any of these questions, please contact the U.S. Consulate before traveling to the United States
-----------
Who in their right mind is going to say 'Yes'?
For windows and office, they have a market dominance and their goals should be to keep that. They may be "losing billions" to piracy, but that's all imaginary numbers because they assume people would pay for it if they couldn't pirate it. If someone is pirating it and they get scared, they have two options. One is to fork over hundreds for a real license, or try linux. If they try out linux and like it, then Microsoft is worse than when they starting this scare campaign.
Microsoft should keep to the goals of keeping everyone addicted to their software so they can't switch to something free.
I'm not condoning piracy, it's immoral and wrong. But Microsoft's strategy should be to keep people hooked, not get every last bit of revenue on their golden goose. Their biggest fear should be the one guy who switches to linux, not the five people that are using a copy they downloaded off the Internet.
I run a part time business selling computers (approx. 10 a week) and it's a rare event that I sell a computer to a private user with an operating system.
People do not enjoy using pirated copies. Especially when it's a pain in the ass or a worry, like getting service packs, etc. They do so because for them to buy legit copies of Windows would simply be too damn expensive. The cheapest I can do WinXP Home OEM edition for is around $150 Canadian, which is simply too much. Even $100 Canadian would be a stretch, frankly. Your average Joe would be satisfied buying an OS if it didn't exceed ~$75 Canadian. I'm not basing this off any direct studies, just my personal observations, but if WinXP was priced around there, I think I would sell FAR more copies.
Different demographics are all obviously different too. As a computer engineering student, I'd be surprised if any significant number of my colleagues were using legit copies of WinXP. Those who are, are usually doing so because it came with their laptops. MS will give us absurd discounts on Visual Studio, etc., but we're left to spend the big bucks on an OS?
Sure, analyzing the pricing on an OS may be a bit naive of me. But different demographics are willing to spend drastically different amounts of money on an operating system. When someone wants to buy a ~$400 system, it's hard to tell them that the OS will cost $150. Then I might turn around and build a system for someone else that costs 10x as much and they don't think twice to get me to toss it on there.
Here's an idea that's a real long shot. Suppose a motherboard manufacturer were to design a motherboard which is targeted for low end, budget users. It is somehow crippled so that it can't be used with the more expensive hardware, but it also comes with a rebate form or some sort of discount on WinXP Home. It would be a modified OS to run only on the motherboard it was shipped with or intended for use with, and the motherboard is set up so that it would be adequate for budget users but not for high end enthusiasts. It would encourage the low end users to purchase Windows instead of pirating it, and allow Microsoft to keep higher prices for the rest of the market. I see the potential flaws in my little scheme, but it's something to think about.
if you're talking PC, why wouldn't you install XP? Win2k was an OS for the more technically competent.
I don't know about the OP, but I don't trust copy protection software any further than I can spit a rat. Back when I was on the Apple II, I was playing a game called Wizardry when the copy protection software decided that it was only going to let the program boot on one particular floppy drive... and that one was going bad.
I ended up getting a cracked copy written over the original master floppy. Cracked, so the copy protection wouldn't fire, but not pirated... I only had the one copy and it was on the original media.
I think I've used copy-protected software maybe two or three times in the intervening twenty-odd years. And that's only been games... I'm damned if I'm going to boot a copy-protected operating system.
Incidentally, I ran into one of the Wizardry authors many years later, and told him the story. He thought it was pretty funny.
The site says my fake volume license key is legit. The people they're catching are the ones that got screwed by shady computer stores that slapped a computer together with an unlicensed copy of XP and give the customer a burned CD. If it makes anyone feel better I have 5 NFR copies of XP Pro that have never been used.
You don't have to use a PC. You can use a Mac, or a Unix box. And a PS/2 for games. Stop whining about Microsoft. Nobody has a gun to your heads.
when you're so flippant as to send your video taped testimony to the DoJ hearings and still get away with it
what entity are we talking about here?
I don't know whats going on, but when I tried to update from http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com I got this message:
Thank you for your interest in Windows Update
Windows Update is the online extension of Windows that helps you get the most out of your computer.
You must be running a Microsoft Windows operating system in order to use Windows Update.
Or maybe it's just something to do with the Apple in my top left hand corner of my screen instead of the start button in the bottom left corner... *coughs*
The problem is that most hackers are rabid about Linux because it's phenonmentally powerful if you code a bit.
They don't understand why the average Joe doesn't get excited about Linux. The average Joe doesn't get the benefit of all the great CLI tools out there, so Linux is, at best, just a decent XP alternative, not something that quashes it into the ground.
If you just use the GUI tools on Linux and don't give a damn about the politics involved, it isn't *that* amazing of a system. It's just a decent OS without a number of commercial apps that people want to play with.
Naturally, every hacker looks at people that aren't using Linux and thinks to himself "what are they thinking?". For a programmer or a hobbyist or a hacker or a sysadmin, Windows is an infinitely worse OS. But most people aren't any of the above -- and Windows lets them navigate to the application that they want to use and open it.
I like Linux, and use exclusively it as a desktop system. Those of you familiar with me know that I like Linux quite a bit. I think that it might become the defacto desktop system in a couple of years. But it won't be because it's mind-bogglingly better and people are just reluctant to switch. For *hackers* it's mind-bogglingly better. For average folks, it's just another alternative.
May we never see th
In my environment, where we have good and competent central IT support, but do not mandate what our clients (researchers) can run on their desktops, we've found that a lot of people simply do not see any compelling reason to upgrade Windows. By and large, people move from one Windows version to the next when they get a new PC. This is in contrast to our Mac OS X population, who upgrade quickly, and our Linux population, who are in between.
Licensing is not an issue, since we have site licenses for Windows, Mac OS X, and other systems. We have a Windows subscription that allows us to upgrade any Windows install to any later version; and the same for Mac OS X. For Linux, it is of course no problem.
Today, about 60% of the computers on our network are running Windows, according to my p0f results. About 15% each are running Linux and Mac OS X, and the remainder are running a "classic" Unix or Mac OS Classic. Of the Windows users, about 60% are running Windows 2000, 35% are running XP, and the remainder are running Windows NT, 98, or older versions.
So why don't Windows users upgrade? My suspicion is that there is not sufficient benefit from upgrading to make up for two persistent problems: retraining oneself, on the one hand; and broken or lagging third-party software, on the other.
First off, major releases of Windows make substantial disruptive user interface changes. Windows users, in my experience, tend to memorize a lot of rote behaviors -- I do this to dial up, that to search for files, the other to set up printers. The upgrade from Windows 98 to 2000, and then from 2000 to XP, each make a lot of relatively gratuitous changes. (Contrast the XP Control Panel with the 2000 one. Even if you like the XP one better, you've got to admit it looks unfamiliar to someone used to the other.)
Second, a lot of third-party apps break when you upgrade Windows. The version of Matlab the user has installed on Windows 2000 quits working on XP, and so they have to rev Matlab as well. Oops, the Matlab script they got from NASA doesn't work on the new Matlab; gotta get the new one of those. And so it goes. Scientific software is frequently not particularly robust over operating system changes. So an upgrade is a lot more pain for our users than it might be for a business user who does nothing but Word, Outlook, and IE.
Some contrasts from the other platforms:
Our Linux installed base is probably around 90% Red Hat, and the remainder Debian or SuSE -- with almost all of the Debian systems being central IT servers, since we prefer it for its stability there. The Red Hat users are impelled to upgrade chiefly by the obsolescence of older releases: when Red Hat dropped support for 6.2, we had a big migration to 7.x; when they dropped 7.3, to 9; and now to Fedora and RHEL. The driving force behind Red Hat upgrades, for our users, is chiefly the assurance of support and security fixes. I expect that this will calm down a lot now for our RHEL users, who have been promised a stabler upgrade cycle.
(For our Debian systems, in contrast, the drive to upgrade (when a new release comes out!) is to have access to the vast new supply of native packages.)
As for our Mac OS X users, they are the quickest to jump on new releases. Why? I think it's because Apple promotes their new releases with lots of new user features: utilities, non-disruptive appearance tweaks, and speed improvements. I can't emphasize the latter too much: each release of Mac OS X has made it faster, and this is a big reason for a scientist (or a ordinary end user, for that matter!) to upgrade.
It's been said that Microsoft's chief competition today is itself, five years ago -- that is, rather than contending for market share against Apple, Red Hat, or SuSE, each new re
....is that Bill Gates gets his greatest wish. I hopethat both Windows and Office become uncopiable - I really do. I hope for this with all of my soul. MS is king because everyone got it for free - make them pay - and OS will rule the day.
Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
Exactly, I've worked for some companies with employees workdwide who also have company laptops they take home and hook to broadband connections. The scenario you (the grandparent) have proposed will not work for detecting VLK leaks.
Except that now with crossover office, wine etc. you can run almost all major apps that are on windows without any problems. My own two specific apps that I still can't run that I need are Microsoft SQL Server (don't think that'll EVER work in crossover office), and Adobe Distiller, which actually isn't such a big deal, but it's just annoying that I can't print to distiller in linux.
:)
MS office, dreamweaver, photoshop, are my major apps I run in crossover office, and they are very usable. I very rarely use my windows partition on my laptop, and then I only do it to install firmware updates to my iPod (I use the cxitunespreview release to use itunes in linux
I just had 3 bluescreens yesterday afternoon on my Windows-XP/SP2 box. I think they're being caused by a new video capture card I just installed, but the installer claimed the drivers had been blessed by Microsoft. The whole install is fresh and has never been on the Internet except to load updates, and it's been thoroughly scanned for viruses and spyware.
So yeah, Windows-XP can, and does, BSOD with certified drivers and no viruses and not doing anything out of the ordinary. Sorry.
Oh sweet irnoy, Microsoft cant do anything thing right, so people pirate thier software, and they cant even stop them. And yes win xp is more stable than win 98, but really, is that saying much?
Like the saying goes, never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes. -Pyrotic
updates to Windows may be downloaded from the Microsoft Download Center.
Translation: Stop whining. Don't want to use IE to access Windows Update, use their Download Center. Don't want either, well, you do what you like.
Same here...http://www.microsoft.com/windows/downloads/ default.mspx was the site linked in the ZD article, and I didn't see this link anywhere.
"Peace through superior firepower."
You don't get BSOD's on XP, because XP is set to reboot instead.
Irrelevant. I think most of us would notice a reboot when we are trying to use our computers.
...that whether or not MS sells a buggy/insecure product, whether or not they charge too much, and whether or not their business practices are unethical, if you steal a copy of Windows you're even more in the wrong as they are. You can't rationalize the law away. Taking software that you didn't pay for is stealing, period. That said, Microsoft has every right to require you to let them check if you have a legal copy before using Windows Update. I would agree that they don't have the right to FORCE someone to verify, but to say they have no right to ask you to verify before you use THEIR bandwidth to download THEIR patches and fixes is wrong. If you don't want to verify, then download your patches elsewhere and quit whining.
Damn Steve cracks me up. http://www.goyk.com/flash.asp?path=947
savvy user, your IP is logged and you will be hearing from our goon..er um customer relations department. :)
MS released a corporate version of Windows XP (along with Office XP and Office 2003), IMO, for two reasons:
1) Mass VLK rollout for large corporate networks where SysAdmins don't care to be bothered with an activation every time a new machine is installed/re-instralled/modified. This BY FAR the main reason MS did this.
2) corporate keys can be used to get the "file sharing effect" of illegally distributed copies as a mass marketing effect among those who would never have bought WinXP or its bretheren products anyway, but will have their friends/aqaintences become interested by seeing it in use. This idea is allluded to by you in your statement of "I believe MS likes having everyone use Windows, whether it's paid for or not."
And it is probably true.
But let me add that I believe that is a mere fringe benefit of software piracy to Microsoft. Microsoft would, IMO, fully prefer to have all of those who use its software aquire it in a LEGAL FASHION a-la sales or tranfer of ownership of a legally aquired product from a previous owner.
Before we all fully bash MS for its product activation I would remind those who will now mod me as troll that MS products did not used to require it. It was implemented as a response to truly massive and casual software piracy among Joe average users and people in the workplace. MS has stated before that Product Activation was never intended to stop pirates who are determined not to pay for their products in the first place, but rather to discourage casual piracy and educate users of what does constitute software piracy (for those who actually did not know, and they were quite a few). And if it pissed off illegal users in the process, well, I can't imagine how this could have caused MS to lose any sleep (there goes my karma again.)
Yes, the product actiavtion is a real pain. No, it doesnt stop illegal software sharing and distribution (read as: software piracy), but yes, it has, in fact, curbed casual piracy and was a legitimate, if not short sighted response, to illegal distribution and outright software piracy.
I don't mean to wholly defend Microsoft against it's nasty, Draconian, fairyland EULA agreements, Anti-Trust violations, Pac-Man Style if-you-can't-beat 'em-buy 'em aquisitions, breach of contract with its "affiliates" (read as: beholden subordinates), stifling of innovation via it's monopolistic sumo-weight throwing, or its sorry-ass excuse for a browser.
But they do, occasionally, have perfectly valid reasons for what they do.
If I had a real
Does anyone remember the scaled down version of XP, released specifically because of all the piracy in some Asian countries?
I wonder how this step will affect users of the pirated copies of that version. Will they be penalised, or will MS continue to ignore piracy in Asia?
To be honest, I don't see MS being able to do anything in those countries... Your thoughts?
StrayByte.Net
Hmm? Could it be because Microsoft copied their OS from another popular operating system that was under copyright?
Yes, the beige box was a cultural landmark, not the actual IBM. So, what OS came with those beige boxes? A pirated copy of MS-DOS, more likely than not. I still have tens of the hand-labelled 5 1/4" floppy copies of DOS 2.1, 3.2, and 3.3 from those days. The trade in DOS copies was fairly brisk. No one had an excuse for paying for it. The 3.5" copies of 4.01, 5, etc are long gone, 3.5" floppies seem to bite the dust much faster. That was the favored format for Windows 2.03/2.10/3.0/3.1/3.11, so those copies are also gone. Had tons of them though. No serials there, just pirated OS goodness which nearly everyone shared in back in those days.
If people had to buy an operating system, due to not having friends who could execute the DISKCOPY command, the choice wasn't quite so clear then. IBM helpfully assisted by initially pricing PC-DOS at $60 and CP/M at $240, mostly due to the sweet deal on royalties Microsoft gave them initially due to their near-zero development cost.
I believe they ultimately paid $75k for the MS-DOS code and IBM helpfully did the debugging for them. Why work? After all, they'd swiped the technology.
The wave they rode was piracy and deceit.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
The link in the ZDNet article is not correct (big surprise). The link where you can find this verification tool is not at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/downloads/ as per the article, but rather http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/. If you were trying to actually give this thing a spin (like I did), that's there you find it. It's the big icon down the left side. Duh...
"Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
There also comes the question of site licensing. A college I used to work for has a site license with many Microsoft products. Any student, staff or faculty member is allowed to have a copy of any Microsoft product (except for server products (Server 2003, Exchange, etc...)) burned for them LEGALLY. We kept this hush-hush from the students, but I have obtained Visual Studio .NET, XP Pro and Office XP legally this way. I'm wondering if, since there is a site license in place and the serial can be used by many people, would serial harvesting have an impact on users who have site licenses?
I have to question your taste in flicks but hey, have at it. :-)
My point is that people want to use the hardware they buy and aren't going to pay more than they have to for the operating system. Microsoft capitalized on that to gain the market share that they currently have. Zero is a really attractive cost.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
The CDs that come with OEM units are just tied to the BIOS. A Dell CD only works on Dell PCs that are allowed to have XP. That's also where they get the serial # (you don't enter it). Now they also install a bunch of crap that the company who gave it to you wants but guess what? They could, and were, doing that before hand. You can setup a Windows install to plunk anything you like on there. We have one setup to automatically install SP2. The system just comes up with SP2 already on it.
It's quite nice too. I just keep a couple Gateway CDs around. Don't have to keep the media and docs for each computer, it all wroks with any computer. No messing with license documentation either, the computer has a license so I just install, and it's all taken care of.
All in all the only problem I see is that it's not transferable, you can't take that XP license and install it on another computer. Ok, well the license agreement doesn't allow that anyhow. IF you want to get up on MS for doing that, be prepared to get on Cisco, 3com, IBM, Sun, and many more as they all do it too.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think MS should allow updates for "pirates (arrrgh)", but this is just bunk. I would like to know just exactly _how_ this would "provide a better experience" for me as a legit customer?
This is a tough call, I wouldn't expect _any_ commercial company to support "pirates (arrrgh)" stealing their software. However, MS WinXP is not the most secure platform for the Joe-Average-Home-User. If Joe-Average-Home-User gets a "pirated (arrrgh)" copy, that just adds one more exploit for spammers, one more spyware, adware, virus infected PeeCeee out their hurting the net.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
The back mind is wondering what reply I should have my system send from my Linux box. It should not be too difficult to send some FUD back.
It does, when you buy from Dell Canada. Dimension 2400 $500 CDN with monitor. You cannot hope to compete with the OEMs at this price point.
I've had about four blue screens in the past week and ironically it is all my fault. The problem? I installed SP2. I was very weary of SP2, my machine was running great, I had no viruses or adware, in the end I'm not sure why I installed it (I guess I just wanted some of the new features, they weren't worth the hassle).
I may try to remove SP2 soon but I'm concerned it will create even more problems.
I checked mine here as there was no link on the Windows Downloads page listed in the article. The funny thing is that the new IE6 in SP2 blocks the activex needed to run the checker! LOL.
In other news film star Robin Williams brought a law suit against Microsoft for stealing his act. He was qouted to say 'As any one can see they stole this so called innovation directly out of my improve in the block buster film Good Morning Vietnam!' It should be noted that Mr Williams was refering to his raiod monologue where a miltary intelligance officer is impresonalted as saying 'Well we go into the jungle and we ask them if they are the enemy, if they say yes we shoot them'
You know, this astroturfing is getting pretty boring. "You should upgrade to XP...", etc, etc. The problem is, I PAID FOR MY COPY OF WINDOWS 98. That copy appears to be defective, it crashes all the time. I want a replacement. Where can I get a copy of that wonderful XP, which fixes 98's problems, at no extra cost?
OTOH, maybe that "upgrade" may not to be as effective as the astroturfers claim. Since they readily admit that XP crashes when it gets "spyware" or "improper" drivers, I'm not so eager to get XP. Because Linux doesn't allow spyware to get into the system and improper drivers are simply ignored by the system, rather than crashing it, I believe I already have my upgrade that really fixes Window 98's problems at no extra cost, after all...
I have 2 PCs, both running FreeBSD. One of them has never run any OS except FreeBSD.
Somehow I have 3 XP licences (2 XP Home and 1 XP Pro)
I hardly use the XP Pro because its got all kinds of problems - including headaches such as no sound available even though the drivers are installed and are supposedly working fine - Microsoft's own tech support hasn't been able to find a solution. I expect I will have to wipe and reinstall from scratch to have XP 'fully functional' on a PC which FreeBSD 4 and 5 both have no problems operating.
Oh well... At least I don't need it for much. I wonder if they would let me use the same license of XP if I install it in QEMU running on the same machine?
-- The universe began. Life started on a billion worlds...
-- Except on one where stupidity was there first.
Get me an XP patch that will let me run my Genius ColorPage-HR2 scanner with my Adaptec SlimSCSI APA-1460A card in my HP/Compaq nx9005 computer, will you? That combination works perfectly under Conectiva Linux 10, so it's definitely not a hardware problem. I don't like having to reboot in order to scan a document after playing one of the few games that still doesn't work under Wine.
I want to see someone run it in WINE.
"I'm sorry, we have no idea what is going on. Chances are, something is pirated. Please go here to purchase something legally."
1. KB 314830 - "Stop 0x000000A5" Error When You Are Installing Windows XP
2. KB 315192 - Windows Unexpectedly Restarts or You Receive a Stop Error When You Play or Start Microsoft Games
3. KB 307129 - "Fatal System Error" When You Try to Use a Hewlett-Packard 5100C ScanJet
4. KB 291808 - You receive a "STOP: How to Troubleshoot a STOP 0x00000073 CONFIG_LIST_FAILED" error message in Windows 2000 or in Windows XP
5. KB 315249 - Troubleshooting a Stop 0x9F Error in Windows XP
In last 5 years, 9 different deliverable and stable releases of BSD, Linux (and MacOS) distros that I have the fortune of selecting (alibet a conservative release) have yet to procure a kernel fault. Only my Gentoo is bleeding edge and still they were smart enough to avoid a certain subversion of Linux 2.6.8 kernel (or advocate them). So, OBVIOUSLY, it would appear that the product is slipping by the MSFT quality control checkpoint too often.
Me think, MSFT-QA's desk must situated somewhere outside of the Redmond loading dock.
My HD bit the dust... They offered me an upgrade to XP, XP-SP2 or W2K.
You guess which one I picked.
W2K is more stable than NT or 98SE. I wondered what happened to all of those laid-off MSFT-QA people in 2000 and 2002? Were they too good for you?
I had to install win 95 then 98se upgrade on my old computers when I built a new one or had to reformat (which was often enough that at one time I memorized the license key I can still recite it if someone gives me the first letter of each section) I never knew if this was legal or not as I had the same copy on several comps but they were all owned by me. But since it was so easy I always assumed it was.
I think MS will find that the only people that run Windows Update are the people using a pirated copy - at least, for the most part, for home users.
I don't think I know a single (technically savy) person who has a licensed version of Windows at home.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Besides the cost and various other issues people brought up, there is a very real threat to the general security of the Internet here. If MS starts denying patches based on the suspected (since they will never be 100% sure) legitimacy of the OS in question, more and more machines will be un-patchable. Most people who "accidentally" end up with the pirated copies do so because they haven't a single clue how to install the OS, nor do they want to have one. That is why they got their neighbor/grandkid etc to install it. They will simply not get the updates, and these are the people who need the security updates the most. How many machines still are not patched for CodeRed, despite having the ability to do so? Now you take that away from yet another populace and suddenly we have 20-25% of the windows users not patching. Danger! Besides, I think this will only hurt them. I don't know how many "Microsoft Professionals" have "pirated" copies of the OS because they want to play with it but can't afford to buy a copy of every MS OS out there. Since MS cut back on helping the MS professionals with freebies and low costs purchases, let alone support, many have no choice. Either that or learn Linux . With these "decision makers" frustrated with lack of MS support and now being viewed as the bad guy, many will make the switch and take their family and friends with them. The very factors that made Windows dominant, are lining up to topple it, and having been an NT admin for over 12 years now, I can't say I'm sorry to see it end.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
...icky..... I have some copies here that are almost gone, I build boxes and give them away (OLD boxes that I get cheap or free and fix), and because they almost all have very low ram in them I susually stick 95 or 98 on them because they are going to kids who already have games, etc. I'm down to two more copies, one of each, all legit, then that's it, no more windows. I've always run mac and now linux the past two years, tried dos many moons ago and just didn't like it. Seemed like a lot of memorizing and typing and work to do not much compared to an easy mouse move and a click.
Ok, ya got me, I don't! I guess there's always new "gullibles" around!
About the closest reference to specific OS gullibility-loss is the dusty copies of XP I have seen on the shelves locally. Talking to the store owners (mom and pop whitebox stores) they don't sell many except with what comes with new machines. Most of it is anecdotal, I just don't know that many people who actually went to the store, purchased XP in order to upgrade. Most that I know who are running it just got it with a new machine, and after awhile they complain about it as much as they ever did with 98. I have 3 friends lately who did the sp2 thing, two broke their boxes bad.
I don't run windows so I can't comment personally about it but it gives me the buckwheats whenever I am forced to, it's sorta
I'm real square, always paid for my shareware, too. Never even took/copied/whatever you want to call it one MP3 or one movie, either. The net is so chock fulla freeware anyway, just can't see any need to pirate. find decent shareware and pay the developer direct, or use free. I guess if you have an *exact* business use you might need this or that expensive package, that's a totally different ballgame then, I understand "tools".
Just can't see it, don't see it I mean, people clamoring to purchase XP at the prices they charge. I'm sure microsoft sells some full price retail,obviously they do *some*, but I bet most is OEM with new machines and bulk licenses to corporations, etc. I think they'd sell a whole lot more and cut down piracy if they dropped prices radically, exactly the same as the recorded music guys would.
The people most likely to click 'OK' are at work. No skin off their nose if their company has its doors kicked in by the Microsoft Police.
I did have a HD failure...A controller failure.
And yes, I do have both said printers. One swapped out for another during each BSOD.
Surprised, uh? Yes I sucked MSFT's BSOD big time.
My best printer is managed nicely by Gentoo.
Talk about one unlucky guy...I only wish to be as lucky as the cricket from a Disney movie, Mulan.
When I try it, it tells me I'm not running a Microsoft operating system.
If they made this program mandatory then people would also be required to use IE to display that page.
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
I would love to have enough money to buy all the software I like to use, but unfortunately I am not that lucky. I pirate software so that I can learn how to use it so that I can compete against rich people for jobs. I'm sorry, but I don't want to work at McDonald's for the rest of my life just because I'm poor.
Piracy is wrong...but so are a lot of other things.
...appears to be valid!
;)
Um, I generated it myself.
Way to go Microsoft! I'm glad you guys are hot on the trail of pirates like myself!
The reason Windows in Retail form is $299 is that you are paying for support.
You can get Windows XP Home for $99. Even less than $99 and it is legal. Look here:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?desc ription=37-102-141&DEPA=6
And before anyone says, "Look you have to buy hardware because that is the OEM version," take a look at this:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?desc ription=12-102-104&DEPA=0
That's right. A CD-ROM audio cable counts as hardware and if you read the fine print it is free with Microsoft Software Purchase.
So what's my point here. Well first I know I will probally get modded as a troll because I am defending Microsoft. With that said I use Debian on my old computer. For day to day computing I use Windows XP because it just works. I have never had stability problems, blue screens of death, viruses, spyware, etc. I also have an old iMac that I have OS 10.3 on and have never had any problems with that either. To me, OSX is the perfect blend between usability and stability.
Well you might ask why so many people do have problems with Windows. The answer is simple and it does not involve bugs or holes because all software has flaws. It is created by humans The only problem with Windows is that Microsoft wants it to be everything thus making it weak in all areas. They want it easy to change system settings but also want security. The average user can easily install software however that software could contain viruses, spyware, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
This brings me to OSX. Apple has taken the time to create quality applications and include them with the OS. (iPhoto, iMovie, iTunes, Safari) These applications are more than enough for most users. Most users won't need to install additional applications to use an Apple. Microsoft includes half-assed applications in hopes that the majority of users will outgrow them and upgrade to their "professional" line of software. This is a bad business model however I have thought of what would happen if Microsoft did include good programs with Windows. Perhaps another antitrust suit? (BTW, I am not saying that IE is a quality app. It is not!)
With all of this said I now come to Linux. Sure Linux is free in terms of use but some users will need support. The only reason why I tinker with Linux is that I like a challenge. I enjoy learning. The only problem I have with Linux in its current form is that making system changes is more of a complicated project when compared to pointing and clicking on Windows. I don't have the time to research which configuration file to edit to change a setting. When I do have time researching and fixing a problem gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. I have accompished something. Then I realize it took me two hours to fix a problem which would take me much less time on Windows. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy every second of the research because I read from many sources and gain more knowledge plus learn from the experience. The average computer user has no interest in researching a problem for a solution. From what I personally have seen which I will admit is limited, I believe Linux will never be ready for the desktop in the current form it is in. I base this analysis on one factor Linux users currently believe is the best quality of Linux. This factor is choice.
I am now going to write from a Linux noob's point of view. I guess I am a self proclaimed Linux noob so here are the problems with choice.
1. How many distros are out there? The answer I usually get when I ask this question is that every distro counts because it gives users more choices. We all know more choices are better right?
Choice for a Linux noob is not good.
Your reference is of course to the Start Menu, which is just a handy organised place to find the files, but not everything installs that shortcut, and thats when the fun really starts.
In other news, the opensource native windows compatible ReactOS 0.2.4 was released a few days ago:
http://www.reactos.com/en/content/view/full/6056
This is really your fault. Yes, you. All you fuckers that pirate software and then turn around and then turn around and give the company you pirated from shit can go to hell.
Microsoft may be a big evil company (obviously evil, because they have lots of money), but *you* are the one who is the criminal.
This is not to say that I haven't pirated software in the past and will never again in the future. I'm just saying that when committing a crime it is best *not* to be prick about it.
P.S. The poster I am responding to, may or may not have pirated software. My impression is that a significant number of the humans that read slashdot are vile pirates. You may consider this message for them.
Now isnt that contradictory?
does any one know the XP serials that have been blocked by M$ coz they are pirated serials?
Why does yahoo do this
Every pirate is a lost potential user of Free/Open Source software. The free (as in beer) component has to account for at least half of that group, and I'm willing to bet that at least half of them would give Linux a shot if they were informed as to its viability as a desktop OS.
Does a user really have to press "Accept" button to allow M4 to check if their key is valid and allow to download?
How do we know M$ cant Autodetect user serial?Whether or not the user wants , dont you think M$ could hav a mechanism to find if the Windows the user is using is pirated or not when the user accesses the Microsoft.com site ( or even when jus logged into the ineternet!).
Couldnt there be a back door deployed my M$ to do this?
Why does yahoo do this
I agree with almost all of your other points, but this statement is simply not correct. Windows backwards compatibility has always been excellent. Hell, it's one of the few systems where people expect to be able to run 20-year old 16-bit DOS binaries and scream and holler when they no longer work.
In fact, Windows backwards compatibility with x86 binaries is what most computer historians acknowledge as the vehicle for IBM-compatible PC dominance for the past decade. The fact that new versions of Windows would continue to run old binaries (without patches, without recompiles, etc) has probably done more than anything else to keep businesses buying Windows so that ancient, proprietary business software will keep running. This saves lots of money and hassle, believe it or not. I know businesses still running on 12-year old DOS software because it still works.
However, I think that today this legacy software is starting to see its demise in favor of web applications which are largely platform-agnostic. So Microsoft, IMHO, spends WAY too much time worrying about breaking old software.
I've heard it explained in many ways, but most people tell me that they're afraid of being sued. Real, for instance, sued Microsoft claiming that changes between Windows 98 and Windows 2000 "intentionally broke" their player. So now MS is paranoid.
XP, for instance, has this insane system loader that can actually PATCH broken apps before they are run. Just take a look under the registry key "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contr ol\Session Manager\AppPatches". Every key listed there gets special treatment when it is executed on your system. There are even some binary blobs that are overlayed at specific memory addresses on-the-fly.
Microsoft has an entire division in Windows that works on Application Compatibility (AppCompat). If a bug is found in a Win32 API, and the fix ends up breaking ANY vendor's app, then either an app workaround is created or the fix is backed out. I think that's horrible (backing out fixes because it might break some old program), but it amounts to putting backwards compatibility ahead of fixing bugs.
Contrast this with Macintosh, where for years people EXPECTED to have to purchase new versions of Adobe Photoshop whenever a new OS or new hardware came out. This has allowed Apple to introduce dramatic changes over the years that broke tons of apps, but improved their systems' capabilities dramatically. Ditching the 68000 for PowerPC, for one. Switching to OSX was another radical change. In both cases they tried to have a "compatibility layer" for old programs, but lots of apps still broke. The win, however, was to take a gigantic leap forward in platform capability.
I was going to mod you into oblivion, but I just HAD to reply.
If the entire Microsoft organisation (which undoubtedly employs some of the world's finest software engineers and quality assurance experts) can't make Windows run stably, what makes you think that a bunch of geeks on Slashdot with no access to the source code, and bound by a license that makes reverse-engineering and patching of Windows illegal are going to be able to?
Decode ......", where 'B'=0, 'C'=1, 'D'=2 ... we call the array "6 1 3 22..." base24[]
compute decoded = , the result is: 00 C5 31 77 E8 4D BE 73 2C 55 47 35 BD 8D 01 00 (little-endian)
The decoded result can be divided into 12bit + 31bit + 62bit + 9bit, and we call theses 4 parts 12bit: OS Family, 31bit: Hash, 62bit: Signature, and 9bit: Prefix.
The following computations are based on this product key: JCF8T-2MG8G-Q6BBK-MQKGT-X3GBB The character "-" does not contain any information, so, the MS product key is composed of 25-digit-character. Microsoft only uses "BCDFGHJKMPQRTVWXY2346789" to encode product key, in order to avoid ambiguous characters (e.g. "I" and "1", "0" and "O"). The quantity of information that a product key contain is at most . To convert a 25-digit key to binary data, we need to convert "JCF8T2MG8GQ6BBKMQKGTX3GBB" to "6 1 3 22
Verify
If you want to understand what I am talking about in this section, please refer to some Elliptic Curve Cryptography materials. Before verifying a product key, we need to compute the 4 parts mentioned above: OS Family, Hash, Signature, and Prefix.
Microsoft Product-key Identification program uses a public key stored in PIDGEN.DLL's BINK resource, which is an Elliptic Curve Cryptography public key, which is composed of: p, a, b construct an elliptic curve G(x,y) represents a point on the curve, and this point is so called "generator" K(x,y) represents a point on the curve, and this point is the product of integer k and the generator G.
Without knowing the private key k, we cannot produce a valid key, but we can validate a key using public key:{p, a, b, G, K}
compute H=SHA-1(5D OS Family,Hash, prefix, 00 00) the total length is 11 byte. H is 160-bit long, and we only need the first 2 words. Right lift H's second word by 2 bits. E.g. if SHA-1() returns FE DC BA 98 76 54 32 10, H= FE DC BA 98 1D 95 0C 04. compute R(rx,ry)= Signature * (Signature*G + H*K) (mod p) compute SHA-1(79 OS Family, rx, ry) the total input length = 1+2+64*2=131 bytes. And compare Hash and result, and if identical, the key is valid.
Producing A Valid Key!
We assume the private key k is known (sure, Microsoft won't public this value, so we have to break it by ourselves). The equation in the product key validation system is as below:
Hash=SHA(Signature*(Signature*G+SHA(Hash)*K) (mod p))
What we need is to calculate a Signature which satisfies the above equation. Randomly choose an integer r, and compute R(rx,ry)=r * G Compute Hash= SHA-1(79 OS Family, rx, ry) the total input length = 1+2+64*2=131 bytes, and we get the first 62bit result. compute H=SHA-1(5D OS Family,Hash, prefix, 00 00) the total length is 11 byte, and we need first 2 words, and right lift H's second word by 2 bits. And now, we get an equation as below:
Signature*(Signature*G+H*K) = r * G (mod p)
By replacing K with k * G, we get the next equation:
Signature*(Signature*G+H*k*G) = r * G (mod p) , where n is the order of point G on the curve
Note: not every number has a square root, so maybe we need to go back to step 1 for several times.
Get Private-key From Public Key
I've mentioned that the private key k is not included in the BINK resource, so we need to break it out by ourselves. In the public key:
K(x,y) = k * G, we only know the generator G, and the product K, but it is hard to get k. The effective method of getting k from K(x,y) = k * G is Pollard's Rho (or its variation) method, whose complexity is merely , where n is the order of G. (n is not included in public key resource, so, we need to get n by Schoof's algorithm) Because a user cannot suffer a too long product key, the Signature must be short enough to be convenient. And Microsoft chooses 62 bit as the length of signature, hence, n is merely 62-bit long. Therefore, the complexity
The check is not required, but after the desired 20,000
users go through the program they might change their
OS.
Leopard cub
If I don't like Mercedes cars, I should buy a BMW car instead, not steal the Mercedes.
--
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Parent poster wrote:
"The problem is that most hackers are rabid about Linux because it's phenonmentally powerful if you code a bit."
So are BSD, MacOS, and (bet you saw this one coming) Windows. Most hackers are rabid about Linux because they got more than they were promised. They weren't promised anything. They didn't pay anything, and they got a whole lot.
I have a few friends that graduated with me from college with varying technical degrees, including CS, Math, Engineering, and Physics (what can I say, I'm a geek and hang out with geeks). Some close friends ended up at Microsoft. And even though they run Windows whatever at work, they still chose vi or emacs as their editor, bash and other shells, and awk and sed in their code along with their C#, C++, and Perl. One of them bought a shiny new laptop with his recent bonus and reused his old desktop (stuffing Linux on it) as a web-connected file server/bridge. He recently told me how he saved one of his machines at work by using a Knoppix CD! Just imagine an MS employee booting Linux, at work, to fix their Windows machine!
GNU isn't just about linux advocacy, it's a philosophical movement centered around the idea that by keeping code "free of ownership" we can advance society. From another perspective, the GPL is a way of saying, "I don't own this code. You don't own this code. The public owns this code. You can't build something from this code and distribute it without the code."
This is quite diametrically opposed to the philosophy that: "I work hard to create a software product of intrinsic value. It is my property. I sell you a license to use that property."
Many people who wrote utilities and published them under the GPL ported their utilities to Windows, BSD, Linux, etc. They also make pure Windows apps under the GPL, and others port these. Basically, it's not the Linux OS that makes for a great hacking experience, it's the fact that it comes with a bunch of GNU tools. But then there's CygWin and other GNU toolsets for Windows and BSD and MacOS.
The reason that Linux may be a threat to Microsoft is that there are a growing number of developers who got hooked on Linux because the development tools came with the OS, and they didn't want to pay MS (or Borland) for tools which promote Windows. Of course, there are also a great many people who still write free software for Windows (using DJGPP or other MSVC++) simply because Windows is the largest target audience of normal users, and they use it. But if the developers market is changing because of the availability of high quality tools, then Microsoft will react. Maybe too late, but it's in the cards.
Indeed, Microsoft already has done some reacting. 57,000 employees, including some of my best friends know that their job is on the line if Microsoft goes under, and from what my friends tell me, working at Microsoft is better than all of their previous jobs. Their reaction: http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/ Is this too little too late, or is it the beginning?
(getting back to original topic of activation, and tying back into the philosophy of property)
When I ask my friends about the activation stuff, they tell me that nobody who has a brain expects it to deter piracy, but they have to do something to attempt to prevent it from happening. DRM is an equal joke, but it is another way to protect information as property. Both of these measures do something very specific: they make it so that in order to copy the "property", you need to intentionally remove its "protection". This follows a fundamental principle that property is only owned by someone to the extent that they can defend it.
One more response to the parent poster:
"For average folks, it's [Linux] just another alternative."
In order for it to be an alternative for me, it needs to do everything that I need it to do. I need it to run the software I use (includes Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop and t
For a programmer or a hobbyist or a hacker or a sysadmin, Windows is an infinitely worse OS.
Er, the "better" OS for a sysadmin is that which is more likely to keep her in work, surely to goodness?
Whilst many sysadmins can earn a living doing Windows only, and an increasing number find it useful to know Linux as well, the job market for Linux-only sysadmins who refuse to touch Windows is still pretty tiny. If you have such a job and your employer goes down the tubes the scope for finding another such job within a bicycle ride of where you live is somewhat limited in most parts of the world.
Slipstream is where windows updates are incorporated into the XP install CD. If SP2 is slipstreamed, than Windows XP with SP2 will be the result of the installation. Some geeky purists will insist this is the way to the cleanest XP SP2 install. (Certainly the fastest way..)
I think my brain might be pirated, is there anything I can download to find out if it is or not? My AOL 9.0 with Dandy Fop speed doesn't have a tool for checking that.
on national Talk Like a Pirate Day. HARRRR!!!!!
Wow, this measure will really help boost "sales" on linux!
:)
I had no idea the open source movement had insiders working for them at Microsoft.
How cool is that?
I couldn't agree more - and here's my philisophical rant:
This page is 7-8 printed pages of the 'FAQ' for terminal services licensing. It's obtuse, complicated, not clear, but critical to get the damn stuff to function properly. Not one word on that page has anything to do with making my business more efficient, better, easier, anything... it is all about maxmizing Microsoft's revenue stream.
Excuse me, but I obtain tools to perform MY objectives, not someone else's.
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
I'll connect to msn.com and upload as many copies of the GPL that they need to see ;)
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Anyone know if using Software Update Services to update an entire network will bypass these checks? If it can and if MS is using this to target people for a visit from the software police then they will miss a lot of people.
But to get that OEM copy legally, he would have to buy a new pc from a store ( not a home built.. )
OEM Copies aren't legal unless they are WITH the hardware..
I would imagine that he either built his pc from scratch, which doesn't qualify for an OEM copy, or he's had it a while, which might qualify for an upgrade...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
International Talk Like A Pirate Day isn't until tomorrow, (Sunday Spet 19th)
Curiosity was framed. Ignorance killed the cat.
My thoughts on this are, "What does it prove?" Most people who knowingly pirated their copy of XP are, of course, going to opt out of this voluntary system check. Therefore, the results are only going to really paint a (rather fuzzy) picture of how many people believe they're legal XP users, yet really aren't, versus. people who really do own legal copies.
Is that what Microsoft might be after? This strikes me as an attempt to get a better idea of how many people are selling end-users new computers preloaded with XP, yet they're really just preloading pirated copies.
IMHO, Microsoft's attempt to control this by requiring the holographic sticker with the key-code to be placed on the back or side of the PC itself has only added confusion for most people. In the past, end-users learned that they should demand an original installation CD with their machine purchase, because otherwise, they very well might be getting a pirated copy of the OS on their system - or at least, risking their legal copy and license key being resold a second time to another buyer.
Now, most people are accepting the concept that you don't really get a full install CD with your machine purchase. You *may* get some type of "system restore" disc, that half the time, they're afraid to use - lest it wipe out important existing documents and data on the hard drive. They're probably much *less* aware that the sticker HAS to be on the computer to prove the OS is legit. So scammers can make their own "restore discs" with pretty inkjet printed labels, and keep installing pirated copies of XP on each new PC that goes out their door.
Dude, your definitions are about as good as an infomercial or plain govt lies.
:)
Pirate = person who sells cloned software for profit without a legal right of resale.
Average Joe who copies XP and doesnt pay for it is NOT a pirate.
So stop selling lies, coz your pirating 'words'
Arrrrrr, wheres my parrot.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Yes. Mod me insightful not funny.
Oh, and one other point. It's very often overlooked.
There is a significant benefit to having software on Linux free and libre, as opposed to even very low-cost.
When I'm looking for a software package for Windows, I read reviews, check out the company web page, examine screenshots. Maybe I download a demo, if one exists.
When I hear about a piece of software for Linux, I can just download the thing. It's a totally different mindset -- if I hear about something, I can use it. It's very pleasant. I'm sure that eighty people will chime in with "but I can just pirate it under Windows". Yes, but while that might solve your home problems, it's not really a good idea when you're doing professional work.
May we never see th
Actually, pirate suffers from the same problem as the word hacker - originally, it was a term referring to anyone who copied software illegally, whether for profit or not. Aside from that, you're welcome to come up with another term that is as succinct and useful.
To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
Whats so wrong about checking the legitimacy of your software before allowing an upgrade? I mean really, if you had a company and you had a service that was free, where people who purchased your software legaly could upgrade it.... would you want all these 'pirates' sapping your bandwidth with upgrades as well?
Heck, shareware's done similar thgings to this forever. You want the full version of the game, you had to phisically mail them the cahs, and then theid mail you the full version. In some aspects this is simply a far more convinient version of that.
The difference is that people who recieved their software illigally, who somehow also feel entitled to getting free upgrades for it, could be left out in the cold some time in the near future.
Whats so wrong with that?
If I was running pirated MS software...
I'd start lookin real hard at linux.
Thanks MS for fleshing out more of those who believe in freely distributed software.
What great fortune for rulers that men do not think.
There's a fairly large difference between digital data that can be replicated for at most a few dollars a copy, compared to a heavily resource intensive manufactured item like a car.
That's the point. It's not my article or my software being pirated. I'm a consumer, and also read from other consumers and know other consumers. Most consumers think it's way over priced. That's the message MS needs to hear, just like the music and movie people. A lot of people tend to just make copies of it for free (I don't, just know it happens), because they don't want to pay hundreds for a copy. My *speculation* is that if MS offered it for a more reasonable per copy price, a lot more people would purchase it, tending to slow down outright piracy.
Simple enough concept I think to understand.
Heck, I think they could give away the initial OS install and just do a reasonable fee for updates, and they do still run a national ISP,so, if they combined it with that, well, it might work. Back to my early observation, AOL only offers a hacked browser and some connect software and bandwith for sale. MS could offer exactly the same but with a complete OS and if they were smart a lot more free applications, all on one disk.
Their price is not only ridiculous, it's outright scandalous.
This is true. The price they charge versus the problems it creates with every update versus the 'new features' it offers make it horribly overpriced.
Contrast that price with Mac OS X's yearly price tag, and I see a lot more value from Apple. Sure, many Mac owners bitch at the $129 price tag, but with every iteration, the OS is more feature-rich, and more stable.
What I just don't get... How can a company with $50,000,000 in the bank and access to the finest minds in the world continually make such contrived crap? It's horribly obvious that they try (unsuccessfully) to imitate the Mac since its birth. But, I ask, WHY can't they take a slogan from Nike's page and "Just do it?"
No sig for you! Come back one year!
Then, they shove a bunch of applications down your throught you don't need; Do I want messanger integrated into my OS? Do I want IE integrated into my OS? Do I want a help system integreated into my OS? No, I don't, and nor do most users.
This arguement *really* ticks me off. You wanna talk about bundling? Look at how many CDs come with the average distro of Linux! I mean, how many freaking office suites, text editors, web browsers, and POS games from the 1980s do I need bundled with my OS? Windows coming with IE, Windows Messenger, and WordPad is a heck of a lot less "shoved applications" than any distro that uses KDE and all the KrapApps that come with it. I really don't have anything against KDE, except for the way they name every K--- it's really annoying. But the point is, they bundle or intergrate a freakload more apps with their GUI than Windows ever tried to. So lay off.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. -Deke