Slashdot Mirror
One Terrible Job: IT Manager
editingwhiz writes "I suppose we've always suspected this to be true, but IT Manager's Journal reports that a recent email survey by the authors of a new book called 'Crap Jobs' says that IT managers have the U.K's third-worst job -- ranking just below phone sex operator (No. 1) and ferry cabin cleaner (No. 2). Hmmm. Do you agree?" (ITMJ, like Slashdot, is part of OSTG.) Maybe it's better in the U.S.?
Theme designer for the IT section of /.
Ugh...horrible...
I've had much shittier jobs than when I was an IT manager. Of course, I did quit that job.
I suppose the guy that wipes fecal matter off the walls in insane asylums ranks in at number 4...
So, careers involving handling sewage, manure or garbage are actually BETTER than being an IT manager?
One reason that I'm not in IT is beause of the people. People who whine over an IT management job. Are you kidding me?
1. They get paid a LOT more than minimum wage.
2. They usually get to work in a climate controlled office.
3. They usually get to sit down.
4. They generally don't have to punch a time clock.
These few things here make ANY IT job better than about 90% of the jobs on the planet. Quit whining and repeat after me, "I am not entitled to any particular kind of job."
I don't respond to AC's.
Sorry, no better here, don't bother with that trans-Atlantic migration you had been planning.
Not that you need to be a genius to reboot servers, but even an "IT manager" ought to have enough sense not to take this silliness seriously.
"I suppose we've always suspected this to be true, but IT Manager's Journal reports
Isn't this something like the 3rd or 4th article we've had in the last 2 days from IT Manager's Journal?
Is something going on?
The respect of your coworkers is a big factor in how good your IT job is. I'm sure all IT workers (or former IT workers like me) would agree that the actual types of hardware or difficulty of the work isn't the biggest issue. As an integral part of the organization, sometimes IT workers don't get treated as well as they should.
(I had it pretty good... Only one or two people I didn't enjoy.)
Phone sex operator?!? That can't be number 1, It's gotta be #2 after Telephone Tech support Operator. Oh wait! What about that hampster running that kids Hampster powered night light... Now that job has gotta suck.
- F1 NEWS
Comment removed based on user account deletion
There ARE worse jobs out there. IT people just have more time to bitch about it. ;)
This tagline brought to you by 1500 monkeys in just under 17 years.
Then I guess my job as "IT staff" is even worse. I'm just glad to have a job at the moment. However I'm ready to move when and if the market gets better.
Telecommuting! What about socialization?
I don't know about the UK, but I am an IT Manager here in the states, and I couldn't agree more. I don't make much more than your typical blue-collar worker (please, no offense meant to anyone - I was blue collar up until about 6 years ago), yet I have to deal with phone calls at night, on the weekends, and when I am on vacation. I cannot get away from my job. Not to mention, there are plenty of people that work for me that can solve 99% of the problems that come across my desk, yet *I* am the one on everyone's speed dial. And if I find the mother-f***er that gave the entire company my cell phone #, they are dead!!
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
I heard a guy on the radio once who's job was to clean the cages of monkeys used in virus research. Get all the shit-flinging benefits of the insane asylum plus the chance of getting some rare, highly lethal disease. All this can be yours for $9.70/hr.
- Fast food manager
- Garbage man
- "appointment setter"
- door-to-door sales
- ...
The list is almost endless. I dare say that IT manager is one of the btter jobs currently available. Yes, it has it's stresses, but certainly not third worst. Who funds these studies, anyway?What is your penile percentile?
So Email is really ubiquous now seeing how enough phone sex operators and ferry cabin cleaners reponded to beat out IT managers.
Makes you think huh?
Did Zoo cleaners get hit by a ton of spam that they were not able to respond?
-- Robert
Bet this
he/she/it gets to sit back and watch slashdotter moan :-P
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
Really if you like being involved with technology, an IT manager job would be gravy. Some of the lead engineers where I work put in around 60 hours a week to satisfy their $120k jobs. My manager, however, works pretty strictly 9-5 for a higher salary and seemingly less stress. I wouldn't mind heading into management someday. Of course I just graduated college in May, so I could be straying far from reality.
I thought for sure that jizz mopper at the porn store would rank up there.
Should be the #1 worst job.
Jizz Mopper
...because they have to stare at the it.slashdot.org colour scheme all day!
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Being a phone sex operator would seem like more fun!
IT managers get very little sympathy in terms of the basic creature comforts that they get. There's usually a lot of bling involved, and some aura of "respect" that comes with the title.
But the bad side...first and foremost, you're expected to be a miracle worker. Something borks, it's your fault. Nevermind any rhyme or reason why you couldn't have foreseen it coming. It's your fault. Worse yet, they want it fixed yesterday, if not sooner. Forget the impossibility of getting the parts until tomorrow -- it needs to be up and running NOW.
Some of the techs you manage will second-guess you. The rest of the company will second-guess everything you do. If things work, you're not doing your job (after all, there aren't any fires to put out). If things don't work, you're not doing your job because it was your job to keep things running and all that time, you were just sitting there doing nothing.
Some higher-up can't use e-mail? It's your neck on the line. Someone forgot to save their document and some tech you manage says it can't be recovered...so they report this to their superior and next thing you know, some VP wants to know why you're even there.
And those are only if you're a clueful manager. If you're clueless...well, you end up being promoted.
As a former manager in IT, I found that I was being trained to lie. Just like Scotty - Never tell them the truth!
Budget::
Them - cut your budget as much as possible.
New Manager - cuts as required.
Seasoned Manager - cuts Half or Less than what is required.
Them - cut your budget more.
New Manager - cant do that I already did.
Seasoned Manager - cuts Half of Less of what remaines that can be cut.
Them - cut your budget again.
Former new manager - I need a job, My position was cut.
Seasoned Manager - cuts Half or less of what still remains to be cut.
Lesson Learned? Dont cut it all at once.
Time Management::
Them - How much time is required?
New Manager - 2 weeks. (2xactual required)
Seasoned Manager - 2 months. (8x actual required
Them - We need it in half that time.
New Manager - Ends up working nights and weekends but demands cut in requirements.
Seasoned Manager - Resigns to half time but demands cut in requirements.
Them - We need these new requirements but it can be done with an additional 1/4 original time.
New Manager - What are you nuts?
Seasoned Manager - We can do it but it will be a miracle.
Them - Congratulations project is complete on schedule.
New Manager - standard pay check. Was done in 75% time estimate. (1.5wk)
Seasoned Manager - BONUS. completed in record time. (75% time estimate =6wk)
Lesson - lie about time to complete.
And, upon seeing this ridiculous spam survey slow his connections and eat up space on his Exchange server, Jack Q. Public, IT Manager extraordinaire, set every address in his domain to autoreply:
IT MANAGER, NO THANKS TO MORONS LIKE YOU.
And yet IT manager still came in 3rd.
Phone Sex operators must have really good internet connections.
-- Robert
Bet this
was my first job: cleaning out the incinerator at an animal disease laboratory...sometimes they shut off the gas before the rabid dog carcasses were completely burnt. After that, even my job as an operator at the student services counter for my university's computer center seemed like a real move up in the world. How many days a week can you constantly deal with the software problems of people who should never have been given anything more complicated than a bottle of beer and still think you have a great job?
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Oh there's tons of others, but I'm lazy, perhaps if I'm bored I'll come back later and document them all.
One of the biggest mistake that IT manager make is to assume that their job is 100% technical. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Their job is to ensure that their users are adequately cared for (training, hand holding etc) and perform their business can funtion. As IT managers tend to be more tuned into technology than people, they will find it especially difficult dealing with people. Stop the whining (your linux box is not going to crash if you're not at the kb 24x7) and get talking to people/users/luser etc.
My advice - go out into the world of hourly wage/no benefits/first time you are late you are fired...and then come back and tell me if IT is so bad.
I agree that this job sucks, I quit a similar position, albeit in a small organization, because I could not cope with the superstition and demands of a management team that was completely out of touch with the realities of the computing environment. Yes you do make more than minimum wage, you work in a climate controlled environment, yada yada. I now work for a survey company in Lake Tahoe, My office is the sierra woodlands 50% of the time, and when a high-ranking member of our team needs help burning a CD, I refer them to the IT department... I am sure my blood pressure has dropped considerably..... And now I have more energy and computer lust to contribute to open-source projects yahooo!!!!!
The vast majority run Windows, which means high costs on software, hardware, and maintenence. The security costs alone are greater than running a similar set-up in *nix. So they make their bed, now they can sleep in it.
... people who dive under the sewers... literally it has to suck
Submit this as a poll?
--
Slashdot: Racism against Indians OK. China bad, USA good. Blue pill in water supply.
I've noticed that the Tea-Wops can be pretty god-damned obnoxious whenever their computers aren't working correctly, and all of those Punjabs that they're importing from god knows where to do all of their IT grunt work really don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. So it really dosen't suprise me that IT-Managers in Limey-Land are only slightly better off than phone sex operators.
The cycle that the job requires as far as time input can also be stressful at times. One week you replace a couple monitors and make a printer recommendation and the next week 100 new computers show up that need imaged and deployed in a short period of time.
All in all though, if I had to choose I would keep my current job over a lot of other jobs out there. I have time to work on training, work with a pretty nice team and have a somewhat flexible work schedule.
Anyway, IT Managers don't have the worst IT jobs as far as I'm concerned. Try any kind of phone tech support and you would beg for an IT Manager position. I used to do phone support and I wouldn't go back to that unless I had no other choice.
Nah they're just better whiners. :-)
My Weblog
5. Nitwits who don't understand the work assume it's easy, thus making it impossible to get any respect.
IT folks WORKED and LEARNED a shitload of stuff to get there. Take your hating elsewhere.
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
my job:
;)
Handle teachers & students on win95,win98, win98SE, WinMe, Win2k proff, WinXP Home, WinXP, Mac OSX and Linux clients. On a infrastructure with 10Mbps HUB's. Mac OSX server, Netware server, Win2k server, Linux server. Why all these systems? you may ask, please don't, I'm to busy to answer. "Hey, computer guy, could you make 40 copies of this CD to my students", "License?", "We've always used these, don't you start making a fuzz about that now..."
Oh, I almost forgot the printers, got to go
Yeah.. as a server jockey it ain't fun.. but then I look at my manager.. making decent money.. having to put up with demanding executives with unrealistic time frames and demands... I can understand why he is disinterested in my career.. my needs.. he's resigned to just doing his job.. getting the freaking work done any way possible.
I understand this now after 3 or 4 years of wondering why no one listens... it's cause and effect.. someone somewhere is here for a little time and wants their piece of the world to shine.. enter the shining monkey (the manager) and his shining monkey team (the IT folks).
Don't delude yourself that another job would be any different. What it comes down to is that jobs in North America suck when it comes to considering quality of life. Other countries have it better in personal respects.. but wealth is less of a concern there. Which makes you wonder why more billionaires than ever are coming out of North America... someone has it right!
(1st sig) If this were a snappy sig, you'd be reading it right now. (2nd sig) I'm a karma whore. >Insert FUD here
"The authors of the new book "Crap Jobs" took an unscientific email survey among people in the United Kingdom..."
Unscientific?
In other news, I rule. That's equally valid news.
I wonder who voted. IT managers? Homer Simpson also thought that getting snow moguls slammed into his crotch was "the worst pain ever", even after he had fallen all the way down Springfield Gorge, then back up, and then back down again. My point is, this whole book is relative to whom the statistics were taken from. After RTFA, I still don't know.
The results are a BOFH trick. You see, it is in the interests of U.K. IT managers to make everyone believe no one is interested in their jobs.
By keeping up this illusion, their vast network of power and influence can be maintained and competition can be eliminated.
M
So are they saying herding cats is a terrible job?
Nothing to see here; Move along.
Maybe it's better in the U.S.?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA, oh, that was a good one...
You could be the guy that cleans up the nudie booth after each guy jerks off.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
From TFA (noticed the word - my emphasis - that was removed to post the /. article):
/. picks it up.
The authors of the new book "Crap Jobs" took an unscientific email survey among people in the United Kingdom
Of course it's unscientific. They send out an email to... well, the people responding are A) people who *have* email and check it regularly, and B) somehow have nothing better to do than sit around and fill out obviously entertainment-only email surveys. No, I don't think there were many actual "ferry cabin cleaners" among them. More likely many of them were, well, IT managers who think their jobs suck because the techs don't like them, or because it's just like that, or any reason other than the fact that instead of trying to be useful they are spending their time carefully filling out stupid email surveys (note: some IT managers are busting their butts and fighting for their group, and getting things done; they didn't even see the survey because they have a spam filter).
Then these book authors collect this pile of "data" and try to get press about it. Because it sells their book. They score a 1-paragraph throwaway article. And then the real coup: alas, for some reason
I call bullshit. Anyone that thinks IT manager is the worst job has never put in a day's worth of real work in their life. You get a good wage and air-conditioned office. The hours might be long but tough shit. Try working a job like construction, back breaking physical labor, dangerous work enviroment, and you can wake up one day and find out the company went bust and you don't get paid, or the construction industry is slowing down, and theres no work period. And if you want to keep your job, when someone says work 60 hours this week and Ill pay you for 40, you say "yes sir". All that and you get paid half of what an IT manager gets. IT manager might be the worst job at that education and experience level (although the qualifications to be an IT manager seem to be only vaguely defined.)
The last place I worked the president of the company came steaming down the hall and started screaming...I mean red-faced screaming...at the poor lady at the IT desk. In an exhibition of pure gonads, she calmly took his laptop and dumped it in her trash can. I was fully prepared to quit before I would fire her but he never said another word about it.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
None of the turn-key solution providers were local. To make matters worse, one management team member had heard that a potential competitor had a solution in place that was almost one-third of what I was suggesting. It was an impossible job to convince these people that the cash I was suggesting to be spent would be worthwhile.
I resisted what they were offering, but coded a report generator for them in access after which I resigned the job, telling my manager that my office environment had deteriorated so much to the point that it had become a "pioson" to ambitions of a young man like me.
Whenever viruses were lurking arround the web, I could hardly sleep - fearing that I would find chaos at the office. I could have got a heart attack!
In my expereince, clueleass managers, often owners or representatives of the owners are a very big pain. All they are interested in is the bottom line. The IT manager's job is not easy depending on the environment.
I do not believe that it is the third worst job as the report seems to suggest. There are nurses who MUST be prepared for death every day. In my present job as a day-trader, Linux is not supported, so I am still stuck with Windows, adding to my previously accumulated "stress".
No of course I don't agree with this article, I love my job.
BTW, did I ever tell you that one of my coworkers (who I don't get along with) audits the logs of all employee posts to websites?
;i believe this chap has a far worse job than any listed here... but you be the judge. er, moderator.
;treehead
"If any part Linux was stolen, then Windows was the biggest heist in history."
I've been an IT manager. The basic problem with the job in most organizations is the ratio of responsibility to authority is out of line-that is why the folks that tend to stick around as IT managers are extremely adept at corporate politics.
I am an IT Manager for a group of lawyers, and I love it. Perhaps its because they have a substantial sum of money. Some of my tasks have included "Find a nice MP3 player for me and set it up". Or "I want three computers for my beach house, can you do it for under $12k?". I've spent several friday's at the beach recharing a wireless mouse because it stopped working, or moved a printer from the second floor to the first floor.
The worst part of my job is dealing with voicemail or general phone system issues. You can only tell someone how to do a conference call so many times. On the other hand, sometimes software/hardware does not work as it should. Attorneys don't like to hear that.
I'm not sure I would like the job if I worked for a bunch of tightwads, perhaps that is the situation with everyone else who rates this above sex phone operator.
In the case of my organization, the worst part of my boss' job is that IT is one of the few parts of the business upper management doesn't understand.
Our president is qualified to perform maybe 80% of all the jobs in the company, but none of the jobs in IT. He can micromanage most other departments, but with IT he just has to (1) trust and (2) pay.
org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg
Maybe it is a crap job in the UK.
Here in the US, where middle managers are treated with respect and dignity by executives and staff alike, it's a completely different story.
Best job ever. Condom Tester!
Oh crap! It broke.
I just became I/T manager last week. Not very promising topic, I'll let you know in 6 months what I think about being I/T manager...
It's quite simple, actually:
2 234203
http://shit.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/11/
Holy crap people, has anyone ever been a dishwasher before? That's a crappy job if i've ever had one.
Minimum wage, and slave work. The last 2 dishwashing jobs i've had i lost half my fingerprints and went nearly crazy from being isolated 8 hours a day by the roar of the machine.
Once i had to clean out a fridge that had been on and broken for at least a week. 3 huge turkeys had expanded and escaped from their packaging, leaking blood and oily skin all over. And then there was the fish. I vomited. The mask helped some but sometimes it would come around the seal on my face and the stench would come through.
And you have to do whatever the surly chef tells you to.
This survey backs the general view in both the UK and US that *certain* IT professionals are self pitying loners without much appreciation or knowledge of how the rest of the world works, or lives. The survey in this case can be considered a pulse of the disatisfaction these malcontents have with there personal life, and in order to avoid taking responsibility reflect that unhappiness by resenting their job and various authority figures. Most of these guys (and they are mostly guys) voluntarily put in more time than is asked of them, even counting time surfing the web or playing quake as time that they were "forced" to work. They remember the one 80 hour week as their weekly average work week. Compared to many other jobs; IT management positions are well paid, safe, clean, have regular hours, vacation, (health insurance in the US), and on average is more secure against layoff. Not perfectly so, but very much on the better end of the scale. We've all seen this phenom. The good news is that as this type of job become more of a commodity - through better tools and spread of knowledge - the people in these positions will largely be chosen, among other things, their attitude. So I expect job satisfaction will self regulate to a certain degree.
IMO, the worst aspect of IT is the baseless politics. Everywhere are factions of people who think their tools are the best or that the latest fad is perfect for the new long-term project. No one seems to understand why all their fancy layers of abstraction are actually detrimental to resolving problems (J2EE enterprise beans for a teeny weeny website?). Oh, and we must use CVS for commercial software development...oops, now where did that symbolic link go...oh, now the high lords of software fashion will allow us to use Subversion...version 1.0...oh yippee just kill me now. God forbid we pay for VC after spending $150K for an enterprise web server.
And to have to try to manage all of this... No wonder I left.
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
Worse than deep sea fisherman? Firefighter? Septic tank cleaner? Bull semen extractor? just a few off the top of my head.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
I don't know what an IT Manager's job is really like. Mine pretends to be an IT Manager, but he doesn't have a clue what he's doing. What does that make him?
actor in Clerks? Nah.
"Have you ever wondered how much the average jizz-mopper makes per hour?"
"The jizz-mopper's job is to clean off the glass after each guy shoots a load. I don't know if you noticed, but cum leaves streaks if you don't clean it right away."
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
I always thought phone-sex operator and IT manager were synomonous....
I attend one of Canada's largest and most respected Universities. I'm employed by that University in a limited capacity, and have come into contact with the campus IT manager here... I must say, he is a fricken dolt.
Anyone who would argue staunchly that Windows in any capacity outperforms *nix for large-scale computing infrastructure, that IE is secure, and believes than Solaris 5.x is good enough to take care of the backbone computing needs of 20k+ students per semester *deserves the s*!t they get*.
Great IT Managers out there (I know because I've been one, and managed teams of them) can handle the frustration that comes with telling people that the reason their computer isn't working is because they haven't turned it on. They can deal with long hours, cheap equipment, and all the other tedium that comes with the job, armed only with a 3.5" floppy and a 6-pack of Jolt.
i spent 6 months doing broadband tech support for AOL. was and always will be the worst time of my life. it was beyond "dragging yourself into" the office in the morning. i needed a towtruck to get me out of bed.
The #1 problem I see in IT applicants is lack of people skills.
Well it was part of my job description, it paid really well and it was quite easy. The trick is not to be a mopper but rather a high powered hoser.
Just get a presure washer and spray away, then that stuff don't streak.
Why? What kind of person do you have to become?
1. None of the fellow engineers I've known _and_ respected ever wanted to manage.
2. Users, after having personal contact with my managers, have complimented(?) me by remarking, "Wow, I'd hate to have your job."
3. I've observed and 80% turnover rate for the IT department in the last 6 months. He who can't keep, find, or cultivate a good employee is a poor manager, no?
4. Firsthand, my managers have:
A. Frequently lied and manufactured evidence to support a position.
B. Rewarded themselves, depleting funds set up for their employees' bonuses.
C. Extended their hands in friendship, only to later orchestrate the most humiliating Machiavellian transgressions possible.
No... I would rather clean toilets than become a person like that.
I know there are good ones out there too.... w00ts 2 ya!
I just want to know then, where the IT managers that work for a waste collection agencies fall in the grand scheme of things...
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
That seems a damn sight better than the F*ck H*le
Job I have now.
"The Idler is the magazine that celebrates freedom, fun and the fine art of doing nothing. It believes that idleness is unjustly criticized in modern society when it is, in fact, a vital component of a happy life. It aims to comfort and inspire you with uplifting philosophy, satire and reflection, as well as giving practical information to help in the quest for the Idle life. Web friendly Idlers might like to visit www.idler.co.uk to read new stuff and old stuff and sign up for comforting, if irregular, newsletters."
t m?command=Search&db=twmain.txt&eqisbndata=05538168 96)
Book Title: The Idler Book of Crap Jobs
Edited by: Dan Kieran
(Source: http://www.booksattransworld.co.uk/catalog/book.h
Assistant Crack Whore! Or is that the same thing as an IT worker?
MadOgre.com
I used to have 200K salary, 10 people under me and 2 mil / year budget. But I also had my ass chewed every day, blood pressure, divorce and lots of extra weight.
I found courage to quit and went back to coding. Today I work 40 hours a week, 10 months a year, do what I want and lost 50 pounds.
... but at least we can get through the day by relating to these folks.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Well, the people who call phone sex operators KNOW what they want and are willing to pony up the bucks to get it. Ferry operators only have one mess to clean up rather than a constantly-shifting pile of politically-motivated pet projects... Yeah, I think I'd rather talk dirty to some perv for $4.99 a minute or mop up somebody's second-hand apple danish. :o)
I always enjoyed it, mostly because senior executives and department heads trust me to have their data safe.
Right now, I'm IT manager for a small artisanal paper mill, which is a really filthy place to work in the first place but the people are extremely nice.
So nice (the manager is delightfully cynical) that I don't mind when the boss asks me to help them make some hand-made paper, which involves putting on big boots, a thick apron (because you stand in a big puddle of water laced with paper pulp) and you pull out from a 500 liter vat of pulp a paper mold that weights about 30 kg, drain it on your shoes, then flip the whole heavy shebang without the slightest tremor or vibration, lest the extremely wet paper sheet falls downm with a really shitty sound (come to think of it, drained pulp must have the same consistency as wet shit - at least, it doesn't smell).
When you're done with a pile of about 40 sheets, you then have to run the pile through the 100 ton press, which has to be applied extremely gently (it takes about 5 minutes to have the press travel about 30 centimeters).
And finally, you take the sheets one by one and hang them to dry.
Now I'm on 40 hours a week plus consulting on the side. 8 hours on the clock, 8 hours of blissful sleep, 5 minute commute...less than 10 hours a week consulting for good $...heaven...
Stress down, weight down, can't wipe the smile off my face with an axe.
Still do miss some things - but not family time, weekends, friends time, birthday parties, holidays, vacation time...
Two weeks ago today one of the sales force brings in his laptop on a sales meeting day, as previously arranged with me, but instead of giving it directly to me decides to get his mail instead. By the way, did I mention he was bringing it to me to clean the worms and trojans he had picked up from the illegal (in our company) internet connection he decided he had to put on it and use... Yes you guessed it he infected half the machines in the building... All were running McAfee and up to date, but they got it anyway. Once in the network came to a screaming halt with worms, trojans, viruses, spyware, addware, etc...
...so how do the Darwin awards work...
I think I also forgot to mention that particular Monday was day one for month end closing to start... and it also happens to have been year end too.
Those of you who know what the last two weeks were like for me, need no further explanation. Those of you who haven't yet experienced it, well I don't want to scare you. Did I mention yet that I am the only Canadian IT for my company and our 350 or so users... Well let me say that my daughter did the "Daddy, I love you, I thought I had forgotten what you looked like..." speach for me.
Well the best part is that I got hauled into HR last Friday afternoon at 3:45, just as I was about to go out for some lunch (four hours overdue without any breaks since 8 am). The head of HR then informs me that I am scaring the (L)users... the "L" is no longer silent when I think it. Yes you read it right, I am being hauled onto the carpet for scaring the users.
So I ask what is it I am doing that scares them? It turns out that after doing an inventory in the morning of the printing supplies and finding that one of my brain damaged users couldn't read the description on the box, or the labels on the shelf, or event the huge sign that says "If you don't know, ask!" They had opened most of the toner cartridge boxes, pulled the toners out of the bags, and removed the tapes to try them all in their printer... They then tossed the ones that didn't fit back in "a" box and randomly put them on the stock shelf. Before cleaning this up I spent a couple of minutes developing new strings of creative language to explain the origins of the unknown user, and possibly how they deserved to win a Darwin Award. Well I guess I was overheard.
When I get out of the HR office I decided to go home for the weekend... I have had enough and don't want to scare anyone...
So here I sit, tomorrow I return to work after the long weekend, today being Thanksgiving up here, and I am trying to think of how to respond to this unsettling news.
I would appreciate any comments you might suggest...
Last Wednesday (October 6th), after faithfully serving the company I worked at doing software development (on an internally used software package that helped to run the business, no less) for 8 years, I got canned - out of the blue, no warning, no nothing. One minute, I was helping a co-worker with a problem in the software (bugs, gotta love 'em!), when I get a page to go to my supervisors office. I finish up what I am doing...
In my supervisor's office is my supe, and the manager of programming (long to explain, but I *wasn't* on the programming team). This guy is known for wanting new things in the package I was working on, generally difficult (but not impossible) to implement enhancements to make your skin crawl - so my first thought was "now what?". I didn't mind doing these additions; job security, ya know. Little did I know what was coming next...
"cr0sh - we've decided to cancel development on your project, and we won't be needing your services any longer"
GULP
My head was swimming, I was thinking "what am I going to tell my wife?", "how am I going to pay my mortgage", and "WTF - doesn't the past 8 years count for ANYTHING?"...
Apparently not - especially not in a "right-to-work" state. The thing that really galled me is that my supervisor didn't even know, and he is a VP in the company: they went behind and above him to fire me. He had no chance to make a case for me and my project, nor alert me to allow me to make a case for myself and the project. One minute I was working, next minute I am being shown the door (well, actually they were kind and let me pack up my desk - they were also kind enough to cut me a check for the three days I was there along with vacation pay, and some severance pay).
In the end, I am getting the last laugh: By Friday I had another job, and it is looking like by November or so I will be making what I was making there, possibly more. Plus, it is at a smaller company run by an entrepreneur who works hard to succeed in her niche, which involves the methodology of six sigma. Its a good thing to have friends and be able to network!
I quickly landed back on my feet thanks to several friends, my skillset, my resume, and the faith of another small company to take a chance on me. I plan to put everything I have into this new oppourtunity.
To my former employer:
You threw away a very valuable employee. Yeah, on the bottom line the software I developed may have looked like an expense, but I bet it saved you more money over the years than you spent on it. Good luck with whatever you do to the software, but I can guarantee that if you try to move to another system, it won't be half of what you had, and will probably cost twice as much or more to implement!
So, to all of you out there in a similar IT situation bitching about your job: be thankful you have a job - one day, it may not be there, and dinner will be dollar store macaroni and cheese meals.
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I have several lawyer friends. They live the death march every day, unless they work for themselves. Those that work for themselves don't make so much money, but they make their own hours. Those that work for law firms DON'T get to see the money they bill for. They work on salary. If they don't put in 70 hour weeks, they'll never make partner, or they'll just be let go sooner or later. None of them have made partner (at which point they'll stop associating with the likes of IT maggots like myself), but once they do they'll be so brainwashed that this behavior will seem normal, and they will perpetrate it on the next generation. Of my 3 lawyer friends, one has already quit to enter law enforcement. He'd rather carry a badge and be shot at than continue the law job.
phone sex operator should be higher than IT manager --- at least you know you are never going to get fucked!
If only for the sake of amusement, I would have found this much more interesting if they explained why being an IT manager is so bad.
"The sad part is that I really did enjoy my work all the years I was in IT. Far more interesting than what I do now. I'd be happy to go back into IT again, but only if I knew I'd be laboring under decent working conditions. Which I don't think is going to be possible in the IT sector for the next several years. :("
:) Seriously I understand were you're coming from, but then manual labour is back breaking, health stealing work too. Also as someone who's handicapped, a desk job really is the only good option.
But, but, the "love" shall overcome. The "doing it for the money" crowd could never appreciate such a wonderous experience.
Some guy called in and said his job was to clean the booths at the adult bookstore.
After about a minute when the radio guys quit laughing they said, "No more calls. Hang up on those other callers, we've got the winner right here!"
It.. is.. the.. worst.. job..
please.. do.. not.. enter.. the.. field..
so.. that.. I.. can.. get.. a.. job.. easier..
thank.. you..
Compared to being a Peep Show cabins cleaner...
Manual labourers send their children to school and push them so they can become highly paid respected professionals. Their children feel bound to their highly paid jobs and yearn for a less sedentary lifestyle. Both types of job have their advantages and disadvantages.
Highly paid is only better than low paid if you don't end up spending half your wealth traveling across the city to get to work, and on expensive suites, computer equipment etc., don't end up having a heart attack because you work stupid hours and can't find time to get proper excercise etc. etc.
What you can and can't live with when it comes to work is a very personal thing and looking at someone else's life and wishing it was yours is a stupid morose waste of time.
Life is a tradeoff. People don't pay you for work because it is fulfilling or good for you. You're trading your time and effort for that pay check. If you're in the process of making a choice as to where you're headed spend some time thinking about what you're going to do with 40 years of your life and make sure you can live with it. If you've already made those decisions and aren't happy find a way to change if you can - no one else is going to do it for you. But always realize that no matter what job you have, sometimes it will be WORK.
Whatever you're doing if you truely think its the worst job in the world, go out and find another one (preferably before dumping your current one). Nothing is worth the depression - life's too short, and will only get shorter if you're constantly stressed.
Finally if you can't change what you're doing - either due to circumstance or because you don't have the heart to (because you're making good money or whatever else) find a way to come to terms with that part of your life, and find fulfilment elsewhere.
Oh yeah...and go watch Office Space.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Oh, and now I get to hang out with my sewer and trash collecting friends...
./.
No. Lawyers, like bankers, only *appear* to be working from 9 to 5. Law firms are allowed to demand that their employees work in excess of 100 hours a week without extra pay. There's actually a provision in the labour laws specifically for lawyers and doctors and a few other professions. A little while ago, some numbnuts tried to add IT/programming to that list too but failed. The article was on
What you're thinking of is a private practice, which is much like conslutting for IT guys. Nice work if you can get it.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Cluelessness is orthogonal to promotion. Its whether the personnel manager likes you.
"Yeah, we IT'ers are all a bunch of complaining bastards and spoiled brats because we all believed that we could be good in something and got suckered into doing all that for much less than most people earn."
And of course with outsourcing. To add insult to injury, they tell you to go back to school and get another degree, because the first one wasn't good enough, and you still haven't paid off the first one.
Come back in twenty years and tell us where your snotty sense of ambition has gotten you: Who has benefitted, how they benefitted. And you can tell us then, how that benefit was better for the world than people who have had the sense of perspective to step back from your strutting rat-race and do the small jobs that society really needed.
I mean, come back if you haven't already self-destructed by then.
The whole point of this discussion is to point out that in our "prestigious" IT-managing jobs we aren't actually doing any better, for ourselves nor others, than those "loser" blue collar jobs we are taught to look down on. In many ways, we are actually doing worse. The joke is on us, foisted by vapid management-side psychological programming like yours.
Seriously, does the word "arrogant snob" not mean anything to you? Surely being that way is voluntary.
In jobs of either kind, I have often found myself wanting a break of the other sort. The ideal job would have to have some days when the goals require thinking and you can stay on task until done, and other days when tasks are finite and you can clock out ontime and get a life of your own.
In societies that allow adequate leisure time, it is easy to use that leisure time for productive ends in whichever kind of pursuit you don't get at work. A truck driver can be a Mensa member; a lawyer can play ping-pong with orphanage kids; a stockbroker can plant trees in Costa Rica; a janitor can help college students with their math homework...
But in societies where, through majority browbeating or economic necessity, we don't have scope for voluntary activity, we become one-dimensional drones with no identity beyond our work. Maybe some people can enjoy that lifestyle, but I think for most of us, words like "dehumanizing" and "alienation" come to mind.
Now my mobile has changed to a 1-800 number, work can call me all they like - at $5.95 per min.
Solves a lot of problems.
Politely refuse that 'free work phone', or divert it to that 1-800 after hours. If they bitch 'it's costing the company money', point out its 'saving them money'. and stick the blame in HR and planning, for bad budgeting.
The core issue is discovering budgets, and inadequate provisioning for 24/7 99.995%.
Yes Virginia, it does cost more to run afterhours.
If they push further, you get to learn how big the overtime pot is, or a say in what IS important, and WHEN or IF it gets fixed.
I also have several other specialist 1-800 numbers listed, the MS premium per incident number, and explain these are outsourced IT support numbers - if they make wild support promises, but no budget, then strategic outsourcing can fill the gap until next years budget, or the mistake corrected.
Or they can agree to give you a raise, in consideration of duties and responsibilities beyond the scope of your contract and stipulated normal working hours.
IT isn't just information technology, or messing with machines, installs, networks or databases. Being an IT professional means that you connect with others in the organization and not just get stuck in a corner. There is a fair amount of work to be done, but most of the work probably should deal with your relationship with your co-workers or bosses. You have to work into position of being an allie and have them be open to becoming educated. If you treat people intelligently and inform your bosses of progress that's been made with their other employees it will shine for you. When you are out of the loop, you become some foreign fire fighter that's just a 911 page away to serve up answers quick and disappear into the wood work. It's people politics and selling yourself. Don't see anthing as an end, but a means. Each day you can empower others and develop good relationships where they can pull you up with them because you're an asset and not a service. Anyone can learn to fix a machine or crimp CAT-5, but a wise worker will see past the duty and see the big picture. The loathed incompetent managers that I've seen some posts refer to, may be people with people skills who became something more outstanding in their superiors' eyes than just a misunderstood and underappreciated fire fighter.
When you think your IT job is shit, you're just not doing it right..
Ofcourse customers complain, but you have to close a good contract with them first and you should be able to easily achieve what you have promised to them.
And that is where the problem is.. they know shit about either defining rules, applying technology or managing a project.
It's not just that they don't have to wear ties. They don't get fired every two years with the business cycle; they don't work overtime; and they have an all-round informal working environment. The garbage guys especially, have access to all kinds of neat free stuff. It's like housing is the only thing they don't get for free. [Any of them here on slashdot, care to comment?]
And to top it all off, they are unionized so they get health coverage AND get to retire after a reasonable career! How many people in IT can say that? No, if you are over thirty and/or married, you best be looking to retrain, or else stretch those dollars *really* far.
This guy sitting next to me on Greyhound five years back, he was a just-retired Chicago trash collector, age about fifty, going to visit his grandkids for the month. He told me starting trash collectors these days get about 35 grand. Me, I've been in IT for three years now, and can't find a job anywhere that would get me over 27. Maybe that's normal in right-to-work states.
Dream big, yeah...
I love to dream big too. I have always wanted to be a weapons designer myself--they are the people who tip the balance of future wars, for truth, goodness, and the American Way. It seems like the perfect, classic example of your crucial, brain-intensive kind of job has to be the nuclear weapons developer.
On the one hand, if we win a war, or if geopolitical policies of nuclear deterrence work, then he is the guy who has saved mom & apple pie from certain doom. That's a huge achievement worth being very proud of.
On the other hand, if some irresponsible jerk in an oblong office somewhere pushes the wrong button [and the nuclear guy has zero control over this], then our same Mr. Nuke is the person who has engineered the destruction of his entire species. That's an achievement worth being thoroughly ashamed of, not that anyone has time then to frown at him for it.
On the third hand, if the world's politicians can manage to just keep naggling their time away ad infinitum without having a nuclear war, then the weapons just sit in their bunkers & never do anything. Then the rest of us all just go on living as if nuclear weapons had never been invented in the first place.
If you add up these three scenarios, positive and negative, then Mr. Nuke has had an influence on the world that balances out pretty darn close to zero. In fact, his influence is not so much different from that of my friend Joe, IQ about 60, who lives in his mom's basement and makes pancakes at the local Rotary club.
A nuclear engineer is the starkest example I can think of, but really the same lines of reasoning apply to just about every line of work: They have their good sides & bad sides, and the question of who exactly is living well has nothing to do with the hackneyed opinions of self-exalted pricks. We are all better off if we just work at what we can do well enough to get thru our lives, and help others through theirs. And leave it at that.
Unless your a doctor of such. In the UK/EU there is a MAXIMUM working week of 48 hours. If you sign a contract that says you will work more (this is legal) then it's your own bloody problem. I refused to sign the last contract that said this. If necessary (and it sometimes is) I will work more than this (I've worked 100 hour weeks when the need arose) but I WILL NOT SIGN AWAY MY RIGHTS.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
There are no IT jobs in the US!
just below phone sex operator (No. 1) and ferry cabin cleaner (No. 2). Hmmm. Do you agree?
No way! I love being a phone sex operator, it's the the cabin cleaners on the phone sex ferries I feel sorry for
Brocklesby Park Cricket Club
Henry VIII used to employ a man to wipe his bottom. He was called th Groom of the Stool
Stick Men
you probably got back into IT because construction work is a young man's game... fun when you're in your 20s but doing the same job when you're 55 doesn't seem so much like a good idea.. try doing construction work for 20/30 yrs.
As an analyst, I am required to stay back as late as the managers "Incase im needed" just because I own a copule of design areas, So the hours are similar.
The pay is worse.
The responsibility is the same, who gets credit for sucess and ass kicking for failure?
I did a search to find out what Contracted PM's get. the only one that turned up in london is a Siebel project (Im on one atm). Bet the pay is awesome.
So If I aspire towards IT management, how shit does that make my job now?
The thing about being a real manager is that you are suppossed to be in control.
I know a lot of supervisor/admin jobs have "Manager" in the title but actually have nothing to do with management - perhaps these are the guys who are whinging?
However as far as real IT managers are concerned. You are in charge, you make the decisions, you manage your bosses expectations. If your workplace is shitty then its your own fault!
Do something about it or leave!
Old COBOL programmers never die. They just code in C.
I've witnessed this phenomenon myself as a neurodiverse tech employee with fellow neurodiverse coworkers; there was an abnormally high incidence of left-handedness in that department, not to mention ADD, Asperger's Syndrome, and who knows what other interesting "diasabilities" and "disorders". Of course, it was the POSITIVE aspects of those disorders that let them excel at what they were asked to do... most of the time. The company's solution to the relatively minor challenges was to hire a former high school teacher as the department manager! Not surprisingly, he tried to manage the department's employees just as though they were a bunch of rowdy 15-year-olds, which never worked all that well.
I'v just quit my job in a Tesco supermarket to work for a small ISP. At tesco I had staff discount, subsidised meals,excelent savings scheme, good pension, reasonable working hours, good folk to work/slack with and many other good points but the work was dull dull dull and consumers are often stupid.
My new job is in a small office with two other guys fixing stuff and getting strangled by cat5 cables.
The money is only a tiny bit more but I lose the benfits (except free internet).
Have I made the biggest mistake of my career?
But hey theres an Apple computer on every desk, so it cant be all bad!
What's wrong with being an IT Manager? I am not a manager (yet ;-), but being in 2nd level UNIX support is a nice job:
1. I get around $60.000
2. Regular hours 8-5 with paid over-time
3. 42 days of vacation/year
4. A/C in office
5. Nice, shiny hard- and software to play with
6. Lots of nice people around (even attractive women)
7. Lots of company benefits like rebates on products etc.
My manager gets even more money and has the same benefits. So again, what's wrong being an IT Manager?
It's even worse in consulting shops because there's also salesmanship involved. I quit my last gig after the management's need to please got me painted into a horribly unethical corner.
My new
Try working in government in the IT scene. Local government. Not only was everyone backstabbing everyone else, but it was more important that they didn't raise taxes, so IT was among many things that suffered. Even though they misspent money all the time. They also put me in charge of firing a few, along with the responsibilities of 150 people, including 911. I was on call 24/7 and didn't get my assistant until 3 years into my employment. I ran that place great, and was very proud of what I did. One day a commissioner decided to make a huge IT decision based on no knowledge except for the fact the company he decided to develop the new tax assessment system was 'friends' of him. This was the worse company out of the group. He then blamed it on me when things were going bad, and I stuck up for myself. I refused to be the scape-goat. Needless to say, a few months later I was fired. Alot of jobs out there are thankless, not just IT. But it is one of them.
I am thinking of doing the exact same thing. Get the Finance MBA and then possible law school. Here in Atlanta it is GA State. I have to keep working the whole time, at least at first. I too am in Telecom, have an MS EE. Wish I had enough sense to get the MBA years ago.. oh well. Better late than never.
Republicrat = Republican + Democrat = Both.
<obligatory> Dumbass. </obligatory>
--LordPixie
It's a cushy job in the USA since most IT managers have neither IT nor management expererience...
"Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
Come on - it sounds like the British were just having a bit of fun with this survery, and were not answering it honestly. Gotta love that wacky British sense of humour!
That's why you hate us so much.
I would say that the results of the survey are revealing except that another recent survey in the U.K. indicates that Britons are more afraid of spiders than they are of terrorists.
--QTone
mhm *melooksaround* - 31 yrs and oldest Programmer in the Company ...
One of the managers is older, but as this is now the fourth company where i'm working at where beeing above 30 is the exception and usually there are less programmers than managers i really wonder what happened to the other programmers of my age.
I know what it is to have an hourly job. I spent years working in a cafeteria. Between college and graduate school I spent a year working in a textile mill pushing carts, cutting blankets and breathing cotton dust.
I would choose an IT management job over that life any day, but I program now, and have done IT management, and I would rather have a $50K job programming than an $80K job doing IT management. I'll live longer that way.
I know a guy who runs a Phone Sex company, his job is basicly IT mangager for a routing system for Phone Sex calls. I guess his is the 0th job on the list.
Sindri Traustason.
I was an It manager and after 5+ years in the IT support field I quit and I'm now back in Grad schooling and I'm leaving the IT industry forever. The best part is that I get my hobby back and I can find a job making shit loads more $.
M
If you want to keep all of your users in line, be a network Nazi.
At least, his nickname (not to his face) is "The Idi Amin of networking".
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I used to work in such a plant. I think most production line people in that plant would be happy to be an IT manager instead :)
The first thing I did after being hired as IT Manager was change my title. Problem solved.
(I'm only half kidding. It does affect mindset!)
Any job is the "worst job" if you have no clue what you are doing. I'd hate any job that I showed up to and had no idea how to do anything and so I was forced to rely on my underlings to complete tasks in order for me to keep my job. How does this pertain to IT manager you might ask? Well anybody who has worked IT long enough knows that a huge number of IT managers have no fucking clue what they are talking about or how to do things and instead rely on the tech savy IT workers to complete the tasks. This becomes a serious problem when these managers have to make decisions or try to act as though they know whats going on so that they don't lose credibility with their underlings. Basically all you IT managers out there would have a better time if you 1.) admit that you know nothing, 2.) admit that you are not needed in order to complete IT tasks, and 3.) that you can and should rely on the input and advice of your low-level IT employees.
I had good and bed.
.... .....
..... a boss that think he knows it all, might be worse than anything .... when they try to explain things to you, you know are totally bs.
.... ...
....
... ... sure it worked between 2 points on ISDN and over IP it supported 4 participants (with some upgrade) .... but they sold it for analog phone lines and promised high quality video + audio ...
Good: i had 1 year bossing over designers and marketers (and doing some it) myself
Lotsa lunch/coffee breaks, check design-approve or puke on it
Bad: if you have many techs, you might end up working your ass off correcting your people's mistakes, because at the end U are responsible
I tend to stress: people are pushing deadlines, I am ready early and go home early
when you are like me, other people's "last minute finishes" stress you out, do not become a manager..... or find the few, that work first, party later
Bosses: make sure your bosses are not tech wannabes
Your crew of idiots: the marketing department... sorry
MAKE SURE THEY DO NOT SELL STUFF THAT DOES NOT EXIST ! or cnnot be made
I had to deal with projects that just did not have a solution, but some idiot sold it
one of my favourites were, when they sold a 4 participant video conference solution for phone lines
merketing person: "but you guys can installin can't you, you are so smart"
us:" #$%@$#%^&@$%^"
Your worst complaints are less than nothing. At my job, we have to work inside a shoebox with a dozen other people, in a hole in the ground, in the freezing rain, hanging upside down with our heads submerged in racoon shit, wiping semen off the walls with one hand and typing with the other. Each day we are shot, have our legs chewed of by wild badgers, are mauled by sharks, set completely on fire, are not allowed to breath or eat or drink, and have to pay our boss twice our wages just to keep our job. We also live together in the shoebox.
WE ARE GLAD TO HAVE A JOB AT ALL!
As opposed to a 60 year old IT manager? How many of those are there? My last IT manager died of a massive heart attack on the job. Age 34. Age 55 in IT? Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. 20-30 years of 4 hours of sleep, lots of coffee to keep awake and alert enough to stay on top of the issues. Wired and tired 20 hours a day catches up faster than digging ditches or hauling bales. Oh, and it's usually just the foreman who is yelling at you and not multiple Lusers with unrealistic expectations or demands that simply cannot be fulfilled. Shovelling shit isn't *that* bad. Shovelling Luser's BS is nasty work indeed.
unions fooey.
I don't know 6 figure garbage men.
Holyshit that's too freaking funny man.
>Gmail invite was sent, enjoy. If you already have one, pass it along. Peace.
Within hours of my original post I received no less than 4 invites and 1 offer of an invite. THANK YOU SLASHDOT PEOPLE!
To pass on the good faith, when I start getting invites I'll give some away in my sig.
BTW: every single one of the invites was classified as 'bulk mail' (spam) by yahoo's filter