Fedora Core Release 3 Released

anyweb writes "Fedora Core Release 3 is out now, Heidelberg, 2.6.9-1.667 kernel, Firefox included ! Gnome 2.8 and more. Here are some screenshots" New release includes Gnome 2.8, KDE 3.3, Kernel 2.6.9, Firefox PR1, Thunderbird 0.8, Ximian Evolution 2.0 and more. Here is a Mirror List and Bit Torrent

Comments

fiiiinally

[The Other White Boy]

now everybody kindly hop on the torrent so i can have this done by the time i leave work in six hours. =)

Re:fiiiinally

[Pros_n_Cons]

Don't forget about the binary DVD folks, It's much cooler not having to switch CD's during install, or waste 4 CD's

Re:fiiiinally

[websaber]

screenshot link is already slashdotted here's another site. http://osdir.com/shots/slideshows/slideshow.php?re lease=110&slide=1

Re:fiiiinally

[Anonymous Coward]

it is a single torrent that creates a directory with four ISOs for install and a fifth ISO labeled rescue...

Re:fiiiinally

[The Other White Boy]

sure there is, it's the top-most link, in fact.

Re:fiiiinally

[JianTian13]

freaking sweet, 10 minutes in and I'm pulling 195kB/s

C'mon people, jump on the DVD torrent, pretty please? <grin>

Re:fiiiinally

[bobsalt]

also note that the dvd install seems so much faster than the cd install. Doing a 2gb install seems to take about 15 min with a dvd, and 20-30 min with cd.

Re:fiiiinally

[Pros_n_Cons]

screenshot link is already slashdotted here's another site.

Those screenshots are from test 2, in test 3 updates some things changed so those screenshots are not completly accurate, for instance there are two task bars now like most other gnome distros.

Re:fiiiinally

[whovian]

When browsing a handful of the mirror site, I found only one with the DVD iso. Download speed is currently 200 Kib/sec.

Also, many mirrors haven't opened up the permissions on the directory yet.

Re:fiiiinally

[Bobman1235]

now everybody kindly hop on the torrent so i can have this done by the time i leave work in six hours. =)

I don't use torrents much, but... can somoene explain to me why I'm getting 6-15K/s download on this? That's PAINFULLY slow, yet I'm uploading at twice that...

Love to do my part to help bandwidth, but I feel like I'm kinda getting screwed here. Any torrent experts wanna let me know what could be goin wrong?

Re:fiiiinally

[Feztaa]

Get on the torrent, duh. I'm getting 180k/s, it's basically saturating my downstream (cable).

Re:fiiiinally

[Nova1313]

It usually starts slow. I backrounded it and when i came back later I was getting like 512-600k it wasn't to shabby. My core 1 cd doesn't pass the checksum though.. I think there is a problem and i have to redownload it.

Re:fiiiinally

[Bob Uhl]

Download speed is currently 200 Kib/sec.

Oh please. Just say K or Kb. The 'kibi-' pseudometric prefix is perhaps the second most stupid thing to ever issue forth from Europe (the French system of measurement is the most stupid). 'Kilo-' means 1,000 everywhere but in CS: surely that's not too hard to handle? Although it does get annoying when network folks mean 1,000 and computer folks mean 1,024...

Re:fiiiinally

[abradsn]

You make $20 an hour, and you are complaing about a dvd burner. Poor baby.

Re:fiiiinally

[lazybeam]

Hmm, AU$13.75 an hour for 8 hours will buy you one. http://www.thediscshop.com.au/moreInfo.cgi?cat=DVB -OPT-D0405&page=dvdburner

Re:fiiiinally

[goonerw]

Assuming you want to buy from a store that uses pirated software. Hell, even GameDude now has a better customer dissatisfaction rating.

Re:fiiiinally

[lazybeam]

What pirated software is there with a DVD burner?

Time to Upgrade

[a3217055]

I wonder what is the bestway to upgrade to FC3 from FC2 ... Maybe just use apt and yum to upgrade :)

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe just use apt and yum to upgrade
The recommeneded way to upgrade is to use installer (annaconda), some people have reported problems using yum or apt.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Oxide]

1) Download FC3 ISO images
2) Burn them to CDs
3) Put on the FC3 cd and click on upgrade

can't get any easier than that. I wouldnt want to use yum or apt because of the GCC upgrade.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[saderax]

Anyone got a list changes?

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when do you need X to install/upgrade fedora?

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Mr_Icon]

I wouldnt want to use yum or apt because of the GCC upgrade.

It works very well. To upgrade from FC2 to FC3 using yum do:

• edit your /etc/yum.conf to point to fc3
• yum update yum
• yum upgrade

Then watch it churn. Of course, if you have third-party software installed, you may want to wait till your vendors catch up with FC3.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Antique Geekmeister]

Gcc is not a necessary component of anything but development tools: as a production tool, it's not directly relevant to whether you can do the systems upgrade.

glibc and kernels and the RPM package management themselves are another story. It's been possible in the past to upgrade one component without upgrading the other and to really screw up the working base of your system so you had to clean things up by hand or simply do a re-install.

Yum and possibly apt, actually help quite a lot with this by giving you good lists of related dependencies to update and by looking both in the update directory and the base directory for components to satisfy dependencies.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[LinuxHam]

Hmm.. I went in to do what you suggest, but found this:

[root@uml proc]# cat /etc/yum.conf
[main]
cachedir=/var/cache/yum
de buglevel=2
logfile=/var/log/yum.log
pkgpolicy=ne west
distroverpkg=redhat-release
tolerant=1
exa ctarch=1
retries=20

[base]
name=Fedora Core $releasever - $basearch - Base
baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pu b/fedora/linux/core/$releasever/$basearch/os/

[ updates-released]
name=Fedora Core $releasever - $basearch - Released Updates
baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.com /pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/$releasever/$basear ch/

#[updates-testing]
#name=Fedora Core $releasever - $basearch - Unreleased Updates
#baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.co m/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/testing/$releaseve r/$basearch/

#[development]
#name=Fedora Core $releasever - Development Tree
#baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.com/p ub/fedora/linux/core/development/$basearch/

(ignore the /.ified spaces) Where exactly do I repoint it to FC3? The variables $releasever and $basearch aren't even environment variables. Any help appreciated.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Johan Veenstra]

Or download the iso images. Burn the rescue CD to CD-rom. Boot and point the installer to the downloaded iso images.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[whovian]

Just replace the strings with the appropriate flavors:

>pwd
/pub/fedora/linux/core/2/i386/

Ergo, replace
$releasever --> 2
$basearch --> i386

I used such a hardwiring to update RH7.2 to 7.3 ever since the former was dropped by Fedora Legacy.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Martin Blank]

I recall reading about someone that updated their server from FC1 to FC2 without using the CDs (not sure if they did it via yum), and had some significant issues with incompatibilities. How reliable have you found this method to be? I've had to occasionally update individual packages, almost always using rpm, and have had no problems, but moving to a new architecture involves an awful lot more -- like new kernels. My dedicated server is about 1500 miles from me, so I imagine you can understand why I'd be wary, even though I'd really like to have the 2.6 kernel active.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[rgmoore]

edit your /etc/yum.conf to point to fc3

Rather than manually editing your /etc/yum.conf to point to FC3, it might be better just to download the fedora-release package from FC3, update that using RPM, and then proceed to update yum and then the whole system.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Coryoth]

I successfully did a RH9 to FC2 upgrade when FC2 came out, and it was mostly quite painless. The only hassle was non Fedora/Redhat installed software. That included FreshRPMs material - which was easy to fix, after the core upgrade I just updated my apt sources in Synaptic, resynced, and all of those upgraded painlessly too - and some of the stuff I had compiled from source. Some source compiled stuff worked fine, presumably because the upgrades to the libraries on which it depended were not serious, others broke left and right. This was a hassle, but as I tend to keep a src directory with tar.bz2 archives of everything I have compiled from source it was simply a matter of going through and recompiling those apps that had broken.

All of that took a week or so - not, because any of it was arduous, but more because you didn't always find the thing that was not working till some time later when you eventually run it.

So all up it took a while for the changes to shake themselves out, but really the basic upgrade was painless, and any issues I struck later were very easy to fix. I'd feel reasonably confident about upgrading to FC3 if I were you - I was nervous going in, but came away quite happy.

Jedidiah.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Coryoth]

Whenever I see things like this I'm glad I dumped RedHat.

apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade

One reason Debian users don't care much about the installer is they do it only once.

The catch is that that will actually work with Fedora Core 1 and 2 and well (presuming you bothered to install apt4rpm, but I mean everyone does right?)

In the end I still prefer downloading the isos because it means I have CD copies of the system so should disaster strike, or something gets corrupted or I run out of hard disk space, or my network card dies or... then I still have rescue CDs with all the base packages on them. I don't expect to ever need them, but they're comfoting to have none the less.

Jedidiah.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[aled]

And what about Redhat 8.0? is useful to upgrade or is better to do a clean reinstall?

Re:Time to Upgrade

[LinuxHam]

Thanks, after posting, I just changed $releasever to 3 and kicked it off. I just hate hardwiring it that way (to borrow from your other replier). IMHO one of the biggest hindrances to wider-scale adoption of Linux on the desktop is the inability to easily keep most distros up to date in cron. This is just another example. Someone had a great idea for handling version changes (see "pkgversion = newest" or something along those lines) but it wasn't fully implemented.

Thanks again!

"All in time due"

Re:Time to Upgrade

[mrzaph0d]

this was very helpful (from the fedora-test-list):

To upgrade via yum the short version goes like this:

1. backup all your data
2. upgrade yum to yum from fc3
3. upgrade fedora-release to fedora-release from fc3
4. make sure all your repositories point where you think they should
point.
5. run yum list updates - just to make sure things seem sane and working
6. make sure you are NOT in X and X is not loaded
6. from a terminal prompt run: yum upgrade
7. wait wait wait
8. you must reboot before using your system again
9. reboot the system and make sure you select the new kernel, not the
old one(s)
10. once your system is fully booted you may want to install some
additional items. Recommended:
yum groupupdate "GNOME Desktop Environment"

(thx to seth vidal)

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Eil]

Does the upgrade work for FC1 as well? Have they fixed the Windows/FC2 dual-boot bug?

Re:Time to Upgrade

[0x537461746943]

There are things that anaconda might do that just upgrading RPMS would not. I used yum to upgrade from RH9 to FC2 and it did work, but there were very strange beehaviors from some things afterwards. The fact that Fedora does not test using yum to upgrade a system from FC2 to FC3 should be reason enough to stay away from unless you have a ton of spare time to track down the strange little inconsistencies that crop up and the system being upgraded is not critical.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[batkiwi]

I asked about this on the list for FC1 to FC2, and the developers SPECIFICALLY said DO NOT DO THIS.

I trust them over you.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[qoa]

I was a big fan of Fedora before this bug bit be quite hard on the ass. I lost a lot of data in the week following it.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Koatdus]

I wonder what is the bestway to upgrade to FC3 from FC2 ... Maybe just use apt and yum to upgrade

Humm... I have never had good luck upgrading a (rh-type) distro with either yum or apt. It is probably because after a year or two of running I have added too many games, browsers, flash plugins, java, etc from both source and other RPM repo's like FreshRPMS.

For instance my main desktop at home started out life as FC1, was modified extensively from FreshRPMS, and now has a bunch of stuff from DAG's rpm repo and NewRPM's.

I am not even going to try to upgrade it in place.

In about a month, after everyone else finds the bugs for me, I will buy the biggest disk drive I can get for less then $300 at Fryes, install and mount it under /opt/newdrive, and copy everything I want to keep to it.

Next I will upgrade my video card and move my tv capture card from my wifes machine back to mine.

After that I will do a fresh FC3 install over my old drive, remount /opt/newdrive and copy everything I wanted to keep back.

Next I will reformat the new drive with XFS and mount it under /opt/video.

This way FC3 starts out its life not all mucked up , I get a fast new dedicated hard drive for video editing that is formated with a file system that is made for big files, and I don't lose any important stuff.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Trevin]

Along the same line, my computer has RH9 installed but I've removed a lot of the RH RPM's for Gnome 2.2 and installed Gnome 2.6 from source. Sorting out the dependencies was hell, and parts of Gnome are still broken. Is that possibly going to create (or continue) problems if I upgrade to FC3 with its Gnome 2.8 RPM's? Should I try to manually uninstall Gnome 2.6 before upgrading? What about any other software that I replaced with custom builds from source (some of it lives in /usr/local, some in /usr)?

Re:Time to Upgrade

[menscher]

I just hate hardwiring it that way

Then change it back. The variable is set based on the version of the fedora-release package. So really you just had to download the fedora-release package from the fc3 dir and do:

1. rpm -Uvh fedora-release
2. yum update yum
3. yum upgrade

Disclaimer: I haven't tried FC3 yet, so I can't claim that the yum updating procedure will actually work.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[burns210]

Actually, given the rapid upgrading cycle of desktop-aimed distros(6 months per release) I think an in-distro gui/cli easy way to upgrade ontop of the existing system is a necesary idea. I think that having to burn X number of cds every 6 months is rediculous when we have yum or apt (or similar) already installed.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[LinuxHam]

A HA! *THAT* was what I was looking for as a tip. Thank you! And so far, after over 12 hours, the yum upgrade is finally kicking off.. the downloads barfed so frequently that I had to run

while true ; do yum upgrade ; sleep 600 ; done

and periodically check on it. I haven't counted how many times it's had to restart, but its been a lot. I hope it'll finish today.

Re:Time to Upgrade

[Trevin]

To answer my own question: I decided to go ahead and upgrade to Fedora CORE 3 anyway. Bad mistake. First of all, after the installation was complete and it rebooted the computer it got stuck at "GRUB loading stage 2. Please wait...". It was frozen solid; wouldn't respond to anything but the reset button. It took me several hours of messing with it in Linux rescue mode to get the hard drive booting again. The solution: fortunately I had made a backup copy of nearly everything in RedHat 9 into a hidden subdirectory, so I replaced the new GRUB 0.95 with the older GRUB 0.93 and reinstalled the old boot loader to the MBR.

Once I finally got it booting Linux again, X kept crashing on me because I was using ATI's fglrx driver which only works with XFree86 4.3.0. They don't make a driver for Xorg (yet), so I had to switch out to the generic ati driver. That means I lost my 3D acceleration. In addition, for some reason the ATI driver doesn't seem to work right with 1280x1024 and 1600x1200 resolutions, so I've got less screen real estate than I did before.

The first time X finally came up, it got stuck on a black screen with a rotating hourglass pointer. That's because Gnome was not fully installed. I had chosen the upgrade option when installing Fedora, and it never let me choose which packages to install; and since previously I had replaced RedHat 9's Gnome packages with ones I built from source, that meant most of them never got upgraded. I spent quite a bit of time going through and installing the missing Gnome packages until I finally got a login screen. And then it wasn't even the same login screen I had used before -- Fedora had overwritten my custom gdm configuration.

After logging in, I found that my usual Gnome session had been replaced by GNUstep! I have no idea how that got in there; I hadn't used GNUstep since February 2003. I can log out and log back in to Gnome by manually setting the session, but for some strange reason if I let it log in with the default session it takes me back to GNUstep.

Once logged in to my Gnome desktop, I found that my launcher icons were all messed up. Nearly all of the launchers I had created on the panel lost their Name tags. The menu is cluttered with duplicate entries, both within the same menu and across parent and submenus, and a few submenus are completely duplicated as well. (Of course, I remember having this same problem when I tried installing Gnome 2.6 over Gnome 2.4.)

I also found out that my Alt keys no longer work properly -- they should be generating meta-characters, but instead the left Alt is generating foreign letters, and the right Alt does nothing (it doesn't even generate the Alt_R keycode -- it's been changed to ISO_Level3_Shift).

A few of my programs (that I built from source), such as Gnumeric 1.3, no longer run because the libraries they were linked with have been removed (obsoleted by newer RPM's). I'm having trouble recompiling it because it requires version 1.10.0 of a library and pkg-config seems to think I have version 1.9.1 installed, but rpm -q tells me I have 1.10.1.

I was up until 4AM last night trying to get my computer in at least a semi-usable state. It's going to take several more days to go through it and clean things up, find out what else doesn't work, and recompile a lot of my 3rd party programs.

Competition

[Donoho]

Is it just me or are there enough high profile distros available now to keep them all pushing a little harder to stay current. I like it.

Re:Competition

[Tarpan]

No point in competing for speed, better to make it properly. As Debian does.

Re:Competition

[PoprocksCk]

So GNOME 1.4 and KDE 2.2.2 are "proper"... Interesting.

Re:Competition

[jd]

They missed out on the latest GCC, but as that really would have been a last-minute install, I can understand them not doing that.

The problem with Linux software is that there is stupendous depth and bredth. I know of no distribution that even comes close to covering it all, and those that do cover a lot tend to slide badly on staying current.

As for the kernel, I'd have personally used 2.6.10-pre1-mm2 (plus the usual Red Hat stuff). I've punished that kernel a lot and it seems to hold up very well. Besides, it's not as if there's any real difference between releases and pre-releases on the kernel. Either can be brown paper bag material, and either can work like a charm.

Re:Competition

[Tarpan]

I much rather have it working properly the first time, and then if I want to change the kernel than to have it not work because it hasn't been verified to work on my exact hardware and leave me with a broken system.

So....

[_undan]

Did they fix that little problem of the install process hosing drive geometry tables so that Windows won't load anymore?

Re:So....

[Panaflex]

Well, it would be NICE if they had some (#*$*&#$* release notes to go along with their release so we would get a CLUE as to what they changed!

Still not updated.. grrr

Re:So....

[Pros_n_Cons]

Yes It's okay, I've been using the test machines, and all of them passed.

Re:So....

[Ingolfke]

I'm sorry... what is the problem here?

Re:So....

[micromoog]

Did they fix that little problem of the install process hosing drive geometry tables so that Windows won't load anymore?

That was a feature.

Seriously though, is this a serious question? "Did they fix this major, huge, well-known bug that was in their last release, 6 months ago?" OF COURSE THEY DID.

Re:So....

[Antique Geekmeister]

This is not a good assumption. Go over to bugzilla.redhat.com and see if it's documented and marked as "fixed" there. Sometimes a "well-known bug" doesn't get submitted, sometimes fixing it would take a major re-write of something the vendor isn't ready to take on (such as parted or the kernel itself).

Re:So....

[stipe42]

"Of course they did." My ass. It existed in RC1 that I recall and it was still there in RC2. What's wrong with asking if they fixed something that bit you in the ass the first time? Do you look smarter when you just assume they fixed it and have the exact same thing happen to you all over again?

Re:So....

[Zemplar]

"Did they fix that little problem of the install process hosing drive geometry tables so that Windows won't load anymore?

Sounds like a feature to me!

Re:So....

[skinfitz]

Did they fix that little problem of the install process hosing drive geometry tables so that Windows won't load anymore?

Problem? That's a feature!

Re:So....

[Bourbonium]

I sure hope so. I was one of the poor saps whose system was hosed by FC2 (because I installed it to dual-boot with Win XP on a separate partition). I didn't use my own computer (which dual-boots just dandy between WinXP and SuSE 9), and ended up using the "family" computer, which had been humming along quite nicely as a dual-boot system with WinXP on one partition and Mandrake 9 on the other. After the FC2 fiasco, XP would no longer boot except in safe mode, and when FC2 booted, it was so slow, no one could do anything much with it. I ended up just blowing away everything and re-installing XP by itself. It was only sometime later that I saw the post on /. about how FC2 can't dual-boot with Windows (despite what the installer led me to believe). I never had a problem dual-booting with RedHat 8 or 9, so I was confident that Fedora would work the same. Big Mistake.

Anyway, the wife and kids have almost forgiven me now, but if I do anything with Fedora again, it will be on a test system, and not on a computer I share with three other people. Strange, they all loved me when I put Mandrake on it. The games that were bundled with Mandrake 9 were awesome, and everyone loved me for that.

Re:So....

[whereiswaldo]

I recently installed FC2 on my notebook alongside Windows XP and it worked with no problems.

Enterprise?

[Espectr0]

If fedora is the base for which RHEL gets developed, why do they keep releasing new versions? When do they decide which fedora release gets frozen to develop RHEL 4?

Re:Enterprise?

[j.blechert]

why would they have to freeze fedora? they could just make a new branch out of it and stablize (and enhance) it in there for RHEL

Re:Enterprise?

[mattdm]

If fedora is the base for which RHEL gets developed, why do they keep releasing new versions? When do they decide which fedora release gets frozen to develop RHEL 4?

What do you mean "why do they keep releasing new versions"? They keep releasing new versions because that's the point of having a distribution. Fedora Core partly exists to support RHEL, but it has its own life as well -- think Mozilla and Netscape, OpenOffice.org and StarOffice.

And "when do they decide"? Well, market realities mean they need a new RHEL release every certain amount of time -- probably every year and a half or so. So when that "when" approaches, I imagine they look to see what the most solid current Fedora base, and develop along with this.

In fact, RHEL 4 is being developed in parallel with FC3. See this LWN.net article for more details.

Re:Enterprise?

[packethead]

RHEL4 has been under development for some time. "Nahant"

Fedora moves too fast

[gtrubetskoy]

Great news.

The dissapointing thing is how often Fedora major releases come out. Makes the lives of those of us who have to keep up with it quite difficult. We just got used to FC2 and now FC3's out! :-)

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[tuffy]

The dissapointing thing is how often Fedora major releases come out. Makes the lives of those of us who have to keep up with it quite difficult. We just got used to FC2 and now FC3's out! :-)

Six months. It's always six months. You need to download them sooner, perhaps. ;)

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[IANAAC]

They're all getting that way. I just ordered SUSE 9.2, and in my purchase history, I bought 9.1 in May, '04. Prior to that I bought 9.0 in October, '03. Seems like all the distros are shooting for six month release schedules.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[mikrorechner]

We just got used to FC2 and now FC3's out! :-)

You know, you can always change to Debian.
You would have a looooong time to get used to a release :-)

BTW, does anyone have recent news about when sarge will be released? It has been some time since DWN cited a concrete release date.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[pomakis]

The dissapointing thing is how often Fedora major releases come out. Makes the lives of those of us who have to keep up with it quite difficult. We just got used to FC2 and now FC3's out! :-)

Then upgrade every two versions (e.g. RH9 to FC2 to FC4). That's what I do. There's no requirement for you to upgrade with every release that comes out.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[Tanktalus]

You can't please all the people all the time ...

There's one group of Linux users (mostly businesses who just want their commodity tools to simply work - sorta like a hammer) who want extreme stability (with lightning-fast fixes for real problems). RH's solution: RH Enterprise Linux.

There's another group of Linux users (mostly us geeky-types) who want the latest and greatest at all times. RH's solution: Fedora Linux.

Pick one.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[the_2nd_coming]

they need a single CD with base distro files and then allow you to install the standard system from a server on the internet. 3 isos is just to much.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[mattdm]

The dissapointing thing is how often Fedora major releases come out. Makes the lives of those of us who have to keep up with it quite difficult. We just got used to FC2 and now FC3's out! :-)

Although all Fedora releases are given whole numbers, they're clearly not all going to be huge changes. I think of them like this (and I don't work at Red Hat, so I can, without getting in trouble):

Red Hat Linux 9: Red Hat Linux 9.0
Fedora Core 1: Red Hat Linux 9.1 (or 9.5)
Fedora Core 2: Red Hat Linux 10.0
Fedora Core 3: Red Hat Linux 10.1

Really, the changes don't look all that dramatic this time around.

Remmber, Red Hat has always put out new releases about every six months. You probably shouldn't set your watch by it exactly, but you might be able to by the averages. The new "Fedora" scheme lets them be more loose with making radical changes without waiting a year and a half (.0, .1, .2) if they want towillhave this time.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[DAldredge]

Why should I use your service when 1and1.com has a dedicated server for 49.00 USD per month and only charges 1.00 per GB for transfer above 500GB?

I am only asking this because I clicked on your link that /. says goes to google, but really ends up at your main site. Why is that?

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[mok000]

There's one group of Linux users (mostly businesses who just want their commodity tools to simply work - sorta like a hammer) who want extreme stability (with lightning-fast fixes for real problems). RH's solution: RH Enterprise Linux.

... or if you don't need the support, White Box Linux offers an RHEL derived distribution, that enables you to use Red Hats errata.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[ebuck]

Uh...

Then don't upgrade.

It's like you're complaining about car models. You tell me that you always drive in the latest make / model, but it's such a pain that they keep coming out with a new car every year.

Really, there's nothing wrong with using the older software. Just keep your patches up to date, and enjoy. Or, upgrade to the newest release, and enjoy the new features. But why complain that you want the latest features, but don't want to change features you just got used to?

Confusing...

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[thepoch]

Officially the release is about 2-3 times a year according to: http://fedora.redhat.com/about/

And I've read somewhere (forgot where) that a new version can get released anytime between 4-6 months.

It seems it's more of a moving target than Ubuntu, which has a fix schedule release and security support.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[Tassach]

You can always just download the first CD in the set, select the minimal install option, and then use yum or up2date to get everything else you need. As of last time I checked, the minimal install only needs disk 1.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[repetty]

>> Then upgrade every two versions (e.g. RH9 to FC2 to FC4). That's what I do. There's no requirement for you to upgrade with every release that comes out.

I think his grievance is against actually again monolithic updates in general. I hate 'em, too.

--Richard

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[tuffy]

Officially the release is about 2-3 times a year according to: http://fedora.redhat.com/about/

The official word is 2-3 times a year. Historically, all of Fedora's releases have been 6 months apart. Before that, Red Hat's "desktop" releases were 6 months apart going back to Red Hat 6, at least. I expect when the next Fedora testing/release schedule is published, the next date will be 6 months from this one.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[vakuona]

There is such a cd. I believe it is called the rescue cd.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[matuscak]

Its actually boot.iso. We mirror the distribution and update trees to an internal webserver and then do the install over the LAN. Actually much faster to do it over the wire than shuffle CDs.

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[bicatu]

The problem is that security upgrades seem to be slower or non-existant for the "legacy" distros.

Imagine having to upgrade 100+ clients every year !

Re:Fedora moves too fast

[HuguesT]

Fedora distributions get obsoleted very fast by RH. FC1 is already obsolete. FC2 will be by the time FC4-rc3 is out.

Support is supposed to come from the "community" after that, like with Debian. I don't know whether this is actually working.

FC is for enthusiasts who like new software that come with a release schedule and who need good hardware support, not stability. For utter stability similar to BSD try Debian (but don't try it on hardware that is too new). For ultra-new software try source-based distros like Gentoo. FC is sort of in the middle in the sense they do some QA but not too much, and their hardware support is good.

If you are a company try RHEL or SuSE

Fedora Core Release 3 Released?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't that as redundant as "Hot Water Heater"?

Re:Fedora Core Release 3 Released?

[Simsypoo]

The Red Hat Department of Reduncancy Department regretfully regrets the naming of the name given to Fedora Core Release 3 Release. Bye Bye

Re:Fedora Core Release 3 Released?

[R4modulator]

Should be Fedora Core Release 3 Dumped

Re:Fedora Core Release 3 Released?

[Miniluv]

The poster should be ashamed of attempting to mock an English faux pas without first veryfing the veracity of the faux pas.

Fedora Core Release 3 is a noun. The verb "to release" conjugated into the past tense of "released" was then applied to the noun Fedora Core Release 3. This is entirely correct and non-redundant. The fact that the noun uses the word release in its name has nothing to do with having the past tense action "released" performed upon it.

Also, a "Hot Water Heater" is non-redundant as well. Hot Water does not, in my universe, magically instantiate itself as hot water. Instead it starts out as water, is heated in a vessel of some sort (mine is a metal cylinder lined with glass), then held at temperature until requested somewhere downline in the plumbing system.

Yes, this is very pedantic of me, however seeing something marked +5 funny when in fact its more like +5 ridiculous stupid, annoys the shit out of me.

I suppose there's the possibility the parent is an attempt humor. If so, well, perhaps it should've been funny.

Re:Fedora Core Release 3 Released?

[Ed Avis]

Not 'dumped'. Better 'ejected', as in

Eject the Fedora Core! Eject the Fedora Core!

Re:Fedora Core Release 3 Released?

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"Also, a "Hot Water Heater" is non-redundant as well."

Perhaps, but plumbers always call it a "Water Heater".

Re:Fedora Core Release 3 Released?

[RealProgrammer]

The Red Hat Department of Redundancy Department regretfully announces that the morons in charge of the moronic naming of Fedora Core Release 3 have been released, erm, sacked.

Re:Fedora Core Release 3 Released?

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, a "Hot Water Heater" is non-redundant as well. Hot Water does not, in my universe, magically instantiate itself as hot water. Instead it starts out as water, is heated in a vessel of some sort (mine is a metal cylinder lined with glass), then held at temperature until requested somewhere downline in the plumbing system.

The water it heats is cold water. Therefore it is a heater of cold water, or, in other words, a cold water heater. It is not really a heater of hot water.

So the original poster wins that one, sorry.

Re:Fedora Core Release 3 Released?

[Karma Farmer]

Hot Water Heater is a bit more specific than it needs to be, and is moderately inaccurate since it can also be set to make water merely warm.

It's also wildly inaccurate because a water heater normally heats cold water.

I suppose a water heater technically hot water too, in addition to cold water and warm water. But, even then, having your hot water heated is a bit of a misnomer, because that's really not what it does either.

DVD iso is a convenient size

[Anonymous Coward]

Just appears to be a collection of the binary CD isos (no source).

Re:DVD iso is a convenient size

[Alan Cox]

We couldnt fit the sources and binaries on one DVD either.

Re:DVD iso is a convenient size

[Isaac-Lew]

How about a DVD of just the source RPMs then?

Released?

[RealProgrammer]

Whenever I read that an Open Source package has been "released", I think, "Wasn't it already Free?"

Re:Released?

[supergiovane]

No, it wasn't.

Cordially yours,
RMS

Re:Released?

[Sri Lumpa]

The joke would work better if you used Free Software instead of Open Source.

Re:Released?

[corvair2k1]

It's like the Klingons always say...

Good software isn't released... Good software escapes, leaving a wake of death and destruction.

Monitor Swarm Speed?

[GnuPooh]

I'm curious about how high the swarm speed with get for the torrent. How can we monitor it? The Duke site doesn't list those stats.

firefox pr1

[Anonymous Coward]

Why didn't they wait 1 more day for the 1.0 final?

Re:firefox pr1

[Ninjy]

I'm not sure if one day could cover the required procedures of including and testing. Firefox 1 PR has been out for a bit now, and I'm assuming they've tested this in combination with other software. Nonetheless, I still wonder why they didn't wait a few more days -- especially with the launch compaign [full-page new york times ad] drawing attention to the final release.

Re:firefox pr1

[Soko]

Ummmm...

After the final of Firefox has actually been released, and been through the Fedora QA process, a simple "yum -y update" will get it for you.

Everyone has a schedule that they like to stick to.

Soko

Re:firefox pr1

[Zorilla]

I still don't think it would have made it. The Linux versions of Firefox seems to be trailing behind the Windows releases as of late. My memory is fuzzy, but I think wasn't able to upgrade to 1.0PR on Linux until a couple weeks later than I did on Windows.

Unless they're planning a synchonized release of the binaries or something for both Windows and Linux.

Re:firefox pr1

[LnxAddct]

They have a release schedule and try to stick to it as strictly as possible. 6 months ago they had no say in when Firefox 1.0 final would be released. FC3 was originally slated for November 3rd, got pushed back because the devs had some minor bugs to wipe out. Anyway... this is a great week for FOSS, and now you have time to d/l FC3 install it and upgrade to Firefox 1.0 tomorrow and then party on Wednesday :)
Regards,
Steve

Re:firefox pr1

[mattdm]

There's always at least one important package with a major update due just after a planned distro release. It's the nature of Linux distributions, which are aggregations of development done at different paces all over the world.

Re:firefox pr1

[micromoog]

For the same reason they didn't wait x more days for the y other software packages with newer versions available.

Re:firefox pr1

[Jagasian]

Why are so many Fedora people interested in yum, when apt is far more commonplace and has a wider array of tools available to support it? If Fedora would standardize on apt for RPM, this would help mend the RPM/DEB divide, as a higher-level layer would abstract the differences between the two from the user's perspective.

Re:firefox pr1

[bokmann]

Because it would have been more than a 1 day impact. They have a build process for the distro, a testing process to ensure that everything works as expected (and known issues have been addressed), they need to create the CD images, and distribute them to a zillion mirrors... I would be surprised if it took them less than a week to go from 'ok, lets build the release' to 'you can now download from your favorite mirror'.

Since it takes them a non-trivial amount of time to release, and since the distro contains dozens, if not hundreds of components that are being updated by their maintainers, some stuff is inevitably going to be outdated by the time you get it. It just so happens it was something a little higher profile than normal this time.

Fedora Core 2 didn't have the latest lmsensors library, but I don't think many people noticed.

Re:firefox pr1

[Kmos]

You can after update your firefox with it's own update system..

Re:firefox pr1

[Phillip Birmingham]

Why didn't they wait 1 more day for the 1.0 final?

Because then it'll be three days before the release of BitMangler 2.0 final, which is just two days before the release of DiskTwaddler 1.0 (after three years in the .9 series, finally.) And then, of course, since you've already pushed back the release, you might as well wait another week for the release of PornoBot 3.5, which adds voice commands as demanded in thousands of one-handed e-mail messages.

There's also the fact that while I have no doubt Firefox will make its date, surprises do have a tendency to cluster around software releases. Best not to make someone else's nasty surprise yours.

Re:Heidelberg

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess..first time some city name is used for linux version..

No, FC1 was Cambridge and FC2 was Tettnang (also in Germany).

IIRC, it was a kernel+parted issue

[wiredog]

and wasn't just a Fedora issue. I hadn't heard about it, as I don't run Windows on my home machine, until I had to install it here at work. The main thing is to not let it futz with the partition tables at all during an install.

Re:IIRC, it was a kernel+parted issue

[_undan]

Yes, but for those of us without ready-made ext3 partitions, it's a problem. Can't install linux straight into empty space.

And using Knoppix/similar and QTParted (which i've not had any troubles with) is rather backwards. If people want linux to be taken seriously, they need to make it play nicely with the big boys until people are ready (or able -- until there's native GTK or QT versions of Flash, Photoshop and Illustrator, I can't switch to it full-time, and I refuse to use WINE and/or the Gimp) to switch to it permanantly.

That's the point

[3770]

They are using you to test the system so that their enterprise customers will get the quality that they expect.

It is a really cheap way of doing quality control.

Re:That's the point

[LnxAddct]

Pretty much any company that releases both consumer and business software uses the consumer software to test the waters and once it seems okay they make the fixes and sell it to businesses along with 5 year contracts. Thats just business, get over it. At least Red Hat isn't ripping off the consumer, the Fedora development model isn't too much different then it was with the RH desktop distro... but the community kept complaining that it wasn't free and Red Hat made very little money (something like 3 million dollars) from its desktop version so they released it to the community as Fedora. Now the consumer gets probably the highest quality linux distribution avaialable, along with a huge supporting community. I use Fedora because it is stable, but has the latest and greatest. It is the only distro that runs on my laptop, and it is the only distro that I have been able to reliably install on just about any machine. If you haven't had the pleasure of using it, I would suggest you do so.
Regards,
Steve

Re:That's the point

[cpn2000]

Thats one way to look at it.

The way I look at it is ...
- I get a free OS (beer & speech).
- Updates from a source I can trust (Redhat)
Now, if it does help RedHat get some things done for their paying corporate customers it seems like a fair deal to me.

Re:That's the point

[3770]

I was actually not complaining, just explaining how I think it works. I should have been more clear.

I don't think the original poster really is complaining either. I think he is having a lot of fun tinkering with his system and being excited about every new release.

I fall into that group. I used to use Debian Unstable just because I enjoyed trying out the latest and when something broke I would actually enjoy trying to get everything to work again.

If he really had a problem with the release cycle he would skip every other release.

Re:That's the point

[gormanly]

Hmm, in my case they're using me to test both. Shame bugzilla reports on FC get ignored. As for quality control, Fedora seems to bypass the concept - FC2 sucks worse than any distro I've ever used, and I've been running everything on RH since the 4.2 days. If FC3 doesn't improve things I'll ... bitch some more on Slashdot.

Re:That's the point

[Mikmorg]

In what way is an old version of RedHat superior to FC2? I've been using FC2 on a server, workstation, and a laptop for quite a while, and it does everything RedHat 7-9 did for me, and more. It works quite well, with bugs of course, but expected... just as they are in any other distro. Personally, I love it.
I am curious as to your claims though...

Re:That's the point

[LordK2002]

FC2 was a rush job. They even said as much in their schedule.

Hopefully FC3 and subsequent releases will be a marked improvement. There is really no excuse for things that worked in FC1 not working in FC2 (like using HOME/END in gnome-terminal, for instance).

Re:That's the point

[sbassett]

Very cheap, considering Micro$oft is still releasing BETA versions of software for about 150 bucks a pop.

Re:That's the point

[Donny Smith]

>- I get a free OS (beer & speech).
>- Updates from a source I can trust (Redhat)

You can get the same from Gentoo or similar distro

Re:That's the point

[Erwos]

EVERYTHING you can emerge is free as in speech? I think not. Such things as non-free drivers and some various software (the Loki FAKK2 emerge, for instance) come to mind.

Every piece of software Red Hat ships is free as in freedom, with the exception of their trademarks. Gentoo simply isn't competing on that front.

Also, there's no "chain of blame" for Gentoo. In reality, you have very little idea which of those packages you just emerged is really trustworthy, because they're from all sorts of different people. At least with FC, I can point back to Red Hat and blame them if something awful slips through. Someone _in particular_ is taking responsibility for the distro, in other words.

-Erwos

Re:That's the point

[Michael Wardle]

FC2 sucks worse than any distro I've ever used

Didn't you ever run Red Hat 6.0? or 7.0? or 8.0?...

Re:That's the point

[stor]

Didn't you ever run Red Hat 6.0? or 7.0? or 8.0?...

Hehe, those releases were heaven compared to RH 5.0.

Or was it 5.1? I can't rememeber... but it was bad.

Cheers
Stor

Re:That's the point

[Donny Smith]

>EVERYTHING you can emerge is free as in speech? I think not.

You're right. But that's an advantage - you don't _have_ to use it but if you want then you can. That's freedom (of choice). As opposed to open source-only - where you can't choose non-open source even if you wanted (except by getting the packages from another source).

>Every piece of software Red Hat ships is free as in freedom, with the exception of their trademarks.

Some say that means it's not free.

>Gentoo simply isn't competing on that

They ship source (again, according to some, "the freeest" way of distribution), not packages, so you're right about that. Personally I don't care, but if you do care about that, you should give advantage to Gentoo, no?

>In reality, you have very little idea which of those packages you just emerged is really trustworthy, because they're from all sorts of different people.

Gentoo's source tarballs come with checksums so you can tell if they've been tampered with.
Although I don't think you really check signatures of Red Hat RPMs you install - do you?

I'm not pro-Gentoo, I just wanted to note that there's nothing that makes Fedora 'per-se' distro of choice.
Personally I have never been to their Web site because I don't like the idea of being RH's lab rat and upgrading my boxen every couple months.
But I'm not anti-RH either - I use CentOS 3.1 (=up2date RH Enterprise Linux 3.0) with yum.

Screenshots?

[Jukashi]

Whats with all these screenshots for distro releases - what exactly are people looking at? All I see is gnome or kde that could be running on anything. Are the distro-specific wallpapers that intresting?

Re:Screenshots?

[vettemph]

The Gingerbread helps us convert the MSWindows users.

Re:Screenshots?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is especially important to those of us who run it as a server and don't even have X on it.

Re:Screenshots?

[dokebi]

Well, Ubuntu linux screen shots show hot chicks, and I guess everyone else is trying to see if other distros do too. And so far they haven't.

Re:Screenshots?

[robyannetta]

Let me ask you this:

If you're looking for a new distro, are you going to choose the one that shows a plain business-like desktop with bland solid colors and business apps?

-or-

Will you choose the one with some wallpaper featuring a hot chic only wearing white panties with Tux printed on it, with a wild black and purple color theme showing apps like Xine playing a DVD, an MP3 player and Xchat?

Surprisingly, these two screenshots could be pictures of the same distro. Marketing is 90% of everything.

Re:Screenshots?

[rbochan]

I will chose one that has the packages I want included with the distro so I can get the machine the way I want it.

Re:Screenshots?

[Tsalg]

You can probably have an opinion on how cute the window manager is the way they show it. Come on, KDE and GNOME are no eye candy at least not the way Enlightenment used to be when it came out and when I used to DL their cvs stuff (and what d'y'all think about E17? I've been waiting for ever for DR17 but I got over it). So there must be a better way than a WM shot at the distro to show off a release.

Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[jsav40]

I had all three test versions of FC3 running and am very much looking forward to installing the release version.

Inpressions from the test releases

-selinux is enabled by default & *just works*
-firefox (finally) is included in Fedora Core proper
-automounting bahavior of usb keys, external HDDs etc. is greatly improved
-Totem has been added
-Yum has been greatly improved (faster)
-works well on the two laptops I tested it on
(IBM T20, CPQ Armada M700
-Better wifi support built in

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[JianTian13]

-Yum has been greatly improved (faster)

Really? I'd love for this to be true -- Yum is so dog-ass slow that it makes installing a new Fedora system from scratch a full-day's undertaking, because before it downloads any patches, it insists on separately downloading uncompressed headers for every fucking package in the release. And then it checks for new headers each and every time I tell it to install a new package. If they've fixed this behavior... Well, yum might actually start approaching the usability of apt.

Yes, that's a flame and a troll. But in all seriousness, can anyone point me to an explanation as to why yum was chosen as the update tool, over say something like apt-rpm? Are there any honest-to-goodness technical reasons why yum is the better choice? Or is it just inertia at this point?

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[Pros_n_Cons]

Are there any honest-to-goodness technical reasons why yum is the better choice?

Because apt for RPM was a hack. Was not built from the ground up to work for RPM where as YUM was. Yum was nowhere near apt in functionality but it is getting there. Maybe Fedora is stubborn in using apt for the same reason Debian was stubborn in using anaconda. It was written by "them".

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[yellena]

If you run yum with '-C' it will use its local cache instead of looking for new headers on the servers.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[tlianza]

I believe apt-rpm still won't run on AMD64... that's why I have to run Yum on mine. I do like apt-rpm on the 32 bit systems though.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[shredwheat]

There are several "real" reasons why debian didn't pick up on anaconda the minute it was available. I'd say they all have to do with support for all the architectures debian runs on. Of these, anaconda is compatable with what, one? two?

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[killjoe]

Is the active directory authentication working yet? It wasn't on betas.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[Pros_n_Cons]

support for all the architectures debian runs on

Which brings us back to the "real reasons" Fedora doesn't use apt. It was not written for RPM just like anaconda was not written for sparc. Thats kinda the point I was making. Personally I still think both would have been better off using the others work, anaconda is excellent so is apt. oh well.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[daemonc]

It was written by "them".

Actually it was written by Yellow Dog. Thus the name "Yellowdog Updater, Modified".

Yum was nowhere near apt in functionality but it is getting there.

I disagree. With this release, Yum has surpassed Apt in functionality (mirror lists for example).

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[JianTian13]

I figured it might be a case of NIH, but anyway, question asked, question answered. Thank you, Pros_n_Cons.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[JianTian13]

Thanks for the suggestion -- Good to know the solution to all my problems is still to RTFM

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[Jagasian]

That is not a technical reason. The "hack" as you call it works perfectly well, has nice graphical frontends and many other associated tools. Anaconda is not used by Debian for a host of technical reasons, mainly being that it does not support all of the architectures that Debian must support.

Apt for RPM supports everything RPM and Fedora need, so yum is just different for the sake of being different. Yet another Linux distro fork. If Fedora would go apt, then that would do allot to mend the rift between RPM/DEB based distros, as mostly, from the end user's point of view, installing, removing, and updating packages is done through a GUI like Synaptic.

yum is not the right direction for Fedora. apt is a better standard, as it makes Linux distros as a whole more standardized for the user.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[jnd3]

-Better wifi support built in

How so? Easier configuration? Kernel modules for USB/PCI devices? A nice widget in which I can enter my SSID, channel, and WEP key and have it actually work? I've had a really bad time with Linux distros and WiFi ... since that's my only mode of networking at home, it's pretty critical that it work out of the box.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[uglyduckling]

Mandrake 10 on my laptop - I entered the WEP key and SSID into the Mandrake configuration tool and it just worked.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[Coryoth]

-selinux is enabled by default & *just works*

This is the major point that is being missed by many here. Even if you think other LSM systems are better, even if you prefer some non LSM Mandatory Access Control system like RSBAC is better, you have to agree that any MAC system is a huge step forward for Linux security.

It doesn't even matter that the default SELinux policy for FC3 is very permissive (mostly it only places constraints of various daemons), what matters is that a major distribution has a Mandatory Access Control system in place by default.

This matter because it helps get developer buy in. That means more applications fixed so they don't do silly things that break under such systems, that means more developers actually using such systems to compartmentalize and strengthen the security of the applications themselves. This matter because right now we already have the architecture - several implementations of it in fact (SELinux, LIDS, RSBAC), what we don't have is applications that respect such systems, nor applications that take advantage of the extra security such system provide. As long as that is the case, we really aren't that much better off. People need to be paying attention to SELinux, and systems like it, and programming to use, or at the very least respect, such systems. Once that happens the difference between security in Linux and Windows really will be a night and day comparison.

This is a huge win for Linux if we can get it up and running, so let's take the time to make it work! Congratulations to everyone on the Fedora SELinux project! You've done a fantastic job, Thanks!

Jedidiah.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[mattdm]

Apt for RPM supports everything RPM and Fedora need, so yum is just different for the sake of being different.

Well, except apt doesn't support multiarch. This makes x86_64 a pain (if you want the ability to run any 32-bit code at all). That's the main hangup, and it doesn't look like it's going to be fixed any time soon.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[Anonymous Coward]

One major technical issue... multiarch support.

when you need to run 32bit packages side by side with 64bit packages on 64bit cpus that understand how to run 32bit.. like the amd64 stuff. This ability is going to become increasingly important as more and more amd64 bit hardware gets purchased. Not all open source software compiles cleanly on 64bit yet, and there will always be a need to run proprietary 32bit software on 64bit systems.

my understanding is apt still doesn't have a way to expose rpm's native way of installing 32bit and 64bit packages in parallel, and the upstream apt developers are very keen on getting apt to support this sort of thing, but the ability but it just isn't there yet. Yum does have support for this, so does anaconda, so does up2date. For people using 64bit fedora core, the will be using this feature more than they are aware, as they install software that is 32bit compiled and need to install 32bit libraries in parrallel with the 64bit libraries already on the system.

-jef

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[Pros_n_Cons]

good post, I knew it was written by yellow dog, bad wording i guess. Also I think there were some other 'technical' reasons for using yum infavor of apt, there was mirrors, but also something about arch? easy to intergrate into up2date? I can't remember now.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[Kynde]

If you run yum with '-C' it will use its local cache instead of looking for new headers on the servers.

True, but it won't make it much faster. The time is actually spent checking the dependency tree cache. The new header check is a blink inspite of how it appears on screen.

Then again, apt is not any faster in that. Checking a dep tree of 2000 packages just simple takes time. Only, IIRC, "apt-get install" skips some checks, whereas "yum install" doesn't.

Even so, I am wondering that can't the common case be made faster.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[abdulla]

-automounting bahavior of usb keys, external HDDs etc. is greatly improved

How about "ejecting" hard drives? My iPod requires me to unload a kernel module before it says it is okay to disconnect, there's got to be a better way than that.

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[stor]

I figured it might be a case of NIH, but anyway, question asked, question answered. Thank you, Pros_n_Cons.

yes well for every question there's an answer that's imple, obvious and wrong.

Yum was written by the Yellowdog dudes.

Personally I wish all distros would standardise on *one*. Perhaps *include* other choices but have one installer that comes standard, out of the box, with all distros. The current "While on Debian, use apt-get, on Gentoo use emerge, on RH/Fedora use uptodate, yum or apt-get" situation seems a bit nuts.

Cheers
Stor

Re:Fedora Core 3 Thoughts

[IamTheRealMike]

Anaconda is written mostly in Python. The parts that weren't could certainly have been ported.

Just NIH syndrome. I wish Fedora used apt-rpm as well.

why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[Anonymous Coward]

when most of the time more or less of all linux distributions look the same,if they are all customized the same. And here on Slashdot I'm sure everyone already know what things look like in almost all the different window managers.

Despite this, we still decide to slashdot their screenies site!

Re:why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[duncan]

Pretty Colors.

Re:why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[Ninjy]

Think about it. Most of us geeks know what things look like, and we might or might not be arsed to rea about all the changes. Nonetheless, the casual Windows user would not know a single thing about the packages mentioned in the 'updated' lists. As they say, a screenshot says a thousand words...

Re:why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[obsid1an]

The real question is why would someone post a link to screenshots on /. Obviously no one is going to be seeing them anyways after about 15 seconds of the article going live (if that long).

Re:why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[sapped]

when most of the time more or less of all [linux distributions|women] look the same,if they are all [customized|dressed|undressed] the same. And here on Slashdot I'm sure everyone already know what [things|insert favourite part of anatomy here] look like in almost all the different [window managers|bikinis|lingerie|nothing].

Yeah, no idea why people like looking at pictures.

Re:why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[merdaccia]

How many Kleenex do you go through to install Linux?

Re:why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[Goo.cc]

Look dude, Screenshots equals geek porn.

Re:why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[Odin's Raven]

Yeah, no idea why people like looking at pictures.

It's because most of us here on /. can't read! C'mon, how many times do you need to see posts that start with:

• "I didn't read the article, but..."
• "I didn't read the summary, but..."
• "I didn't read the post I'm replying to, but..."

before you realize that we're nearly all illiterate?

Now excuse me while I go find my crayons so I can start coloring in my FC3 download.

Re:why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[IBeatUpNerds]

How would you know it was /.ed unless you tried to view it yourself? Shut up and stop trying to pretend like you're somehow different from the rest of us who wanted to see the screenshots.

Re:why is it necessary to post screenshots?

[jb.hl.com]

Um, no. Porn equals geek porn. You cretin.

Firewire Support?

[leinhos]

Can anyone comment on the level of Firewire support in FC3? I tried to get FW working with FC2, but eventually gave up...

Re:Firewire Support?

[Antique Geekmeister]

It's been working fine for me since FC2 came out: I don't have to hand-roll my own kernels anymore, and packages for things like video translation libraries are available in RPM form from the "dries" repositories, in yum-compatible mirror shites.

Re:Firewire Support?

[Spoing]

1. Can anyone comment on the level of Firewire support in FC3? I tried to get FW working with FC2, but eventually gave up...

The only problem I've had with firewire was when the hardware was defective.^ Other than that, it just worked under FC1, 2, and 3 pre-release.

How doesn't FC2 work for you? (Details if you have them.)

(^. Tested an old external dual firewire/USB box with different kernels, boot CDs, and finally Windows...all acted strangely; hanged, lost HD data, corrupted CDs and DVDs. Bought another dual firewire/usb box and plugged it it...worked like a charm with burners and hard drives. Tossed the old device.)

Re:Firewire Support?

[ghamerly]

I just finished installing FC3 on a laptop using a firewire cd drive to do the install, and it worked perfectly. I havent tested it further, but if it installs on firewire (which is better than FC1/2 could do without help), it seems to be doing well.

As a side note, I did manage to install FC1 last year on this same box with the same firewire drive, but it was a huge pain -- required patching the ISOs.

Re:MOD Parent up, and answer

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a problem specific to fc2, has been fixed forever in fc2 updates and non-existant in fc3.

Question:

[RLiegh]

Is there a way to do a network install of fedora? I'm not sure why, but every cd I download is corrupted and unusable; so installing from cd is pointless for me.

Thanx. :)

Re:Question:

[A Boy and His Blob]

Yes, you can either download the CD and use it to boot, then do a network install through an FTP or HTTP server (just make sure you find a server before booting because it doesn't give you a list or anything). If you can't even get the CD to boot and you already are running Linux just mount the iso as a "virtual drive." This is how I installed mine.

Re:Question:

[gears5665]

check your cd burner and burner software.

Mount the iso loopback in *nix to test to see if it is good or bad.

Re:Question:

[vettemph]

One of the best things about SUSE 9.1 personal is that it is one CD. You get a full system from that one CD and then you configure sources to install more software after your up and running. I never understood why we need to download EVERYTHING just to install half of it.

PS-I have no answer to your question, just a supportive opinion.

Re:Question:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you can put the ISOs on a NFS mount on another box and use the network install method. From my personal notes:

"Just boot the installer (first CD of the Fedora distro or a special boot disk) and at the prompt type "linux askmethod". From there just follow the NFS boot option. If you put the boot disk on a CDRW then you don't even need to waste a CD every time you try a new Fedora version. ... your network card must be supported by the boot disk."

I did this with FC2 and had Everything installed and booted in about 15 minutes.

Re:Question:

[gnuman99]

Mount the iso loopback in *nix to test to see if it is good or bad.

It is called `md5sum`

Re:Question:

[ebuck]

Not that it's guranteed to fix all the CD downloading problems you have, but if you're not using wget, you may want to look into it.

Re:Question:

[njfuzzy]

Are you by any chance installing onto a VMWare virtual machine? (We saw a problem like this initially, and it turned out to hinge on a setting.)

Re:Question:

[ceswiedler]

The best way is through NFS. Put the iso images (no need to loopback-mount them) in a folder on an NFS server. On the first CD, in the iso/ folder, is a small boot.iso CD image. Burn that onto a CD, and choose NFS as the installation method. Enter the name of the server and the full path of the folder where the isos are.

Side note: does anyone know why it's necessary to re-burn the boot.iso every release? They seem to have some check that verifies the boot.iso is from the same version as the installation isos. I can't imagine the boot iso changes very frequently, it's basically just a stub for launching the actual installation from the main isos.

Also, there's a bug which was fixed on 10/1 where it wasn't possible to do NFS installs from a DVD iso. Hopefully that fix made it into FC3, because I'm doing the DVD download now and plan to install that way.

Re:Question:

[Jagasian]

Each mirror has a boot.iso:
fedora/linux/core/3/i386/os/images/boot .iso

Download that, also write down or print out a few mirrors' "fedora/linux/core/3/i386/os/" directories, and then burn the CD, which is under 10MB, so there is a good chance that you can download and burn something that small without any errors. Then boot it, answer the questions, one of which will be FTP or HTTP, select the one that your mirror supports and then give it the mirror URL in the next question.

Then the install is as if you used a CD.

Re:Question:

[magefile]

You can do that, but install from CD will be faster (as will system recovery ... always good to have a non-web version). My guess is that you're burning the iso to the CD as a file, rather than as an iso. Look for the "burn an image" or "burn an iso" option.

ACPI suspend support

[pyros]

What kind of default ACPI scripts do they have, especially for laptops? I'm struggling to get ACPI going on my Inspiron 2600, and a distro that has this working with no fuss would really be something (already tried the liveCD of suse, which surprisingly has the ACPI control panels in it, it works the same as ubuntu so far). Does the kernel have any suspend-to-disk patches enabled/built by default?

Re:ACPI suspend support

[grounded_roamer]

For my HP compaq nx9000, I just had to swich on the Suspend to disk support, and recompile the kernel, in order to get hibernation to work. Suspend to RAM never worked. That is true for FC2. Unfortunately theu don't have the suspend options enabled in FC3.

How it compares to Ubuntu?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Anyone care to explain how it fares againt http://www.ubuntulinux.org/?

I've been wanting to try a linux desktop for a while and I had a mixed opinion with Fedora Core 1, not I'm not sure wich one of the two to pick - since I don't have that much time to commit, I can't try both and compare ...

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[jsav40]

I installed ubuntu on the same laptop I was running fedora core 3 test 3 on (IBM T20) Core 3 test 3 ran fine. Ubuntu was a little iffy.
-battery applet did not work
-system would freez hard after 1/2 hour or so of use
-etc...
I could have looked @ ubuntus bug tracker and possibly rectified these but would much rather go with a distro that justworks(tm). YMMV, ubuntu does look promising but still requires more attention/tweaks than I'd like to give my day-to-day OS.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[gears5665]

Honestly, if you don't have a lot of time to sink into learning linux (i.e. make time) then don't bother. There are a lot of things to wrap your mind around and it takes a great deal of time to become as familiar as you are in Windows.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[_undan]

If you want to run KDE, Fedora.
If you want a shitload of software immediately available without having to install much else, Fedora.

If you just want a small, simple GNOME distro, go ubuntu.

I've used them both, and while I really liked Fedora, Ubuntu was a much faster install (plus it has a live CD which you can use to get an idea, although they're both pretty similar).

However, after I installed Ubuntu, I couldn't boot into Windows. Not having the time to fix it, I don't know why that is. YMMV, of course, mine could've been an isolated case.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[xutopia]

both have their cons. I have tried, Fedora core 1 and 2 and went back to using slackware (9.1 at the moment and later 10). Now I'm using Ubuntu because of it's one CD install and extremely easy updates. It is also way better integrated and simpler to use than RPM based distros in my opinion.

Ubuntu is really slick! The only thing I dislike about it is that I'm not used to it as I am with slackware.

I always hated redhat/fedora because and found it buggy and unstable. It never felt as polished and capable as slack or Ubuntu. Seriously if you just want to use a linux desktop Ubuntu is great!

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[LnxAddct]

Heh no contest, try Fedora Core 3. It goes under much more extensive testing, has a nice development cycle. It has a gigantic community and every major open source project releases rpms for Fedora. Not to mention everything *just works*, runs fast and the desktop if very well integrated and looks nice. Give FC3 a shot, it is by far the best release yet.
Regards,
Steve

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[mattdm]

However, after I installed Ubuntu, I couldn't boot into Windows. Not having the time to fix it, I don't know why that is. YMMV, of course, mine could've been an isolated case.

Probably the same problem you can run into on Fedora Core. To my knowledge, this isn't fixed in the new release -- someone please correct me if it is.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[spamsk8r]

Except some of us don't like RPM based distributions in general. I know there is yum and apt-get for Fedora, but it just doesn't seem right as it does with Debian and Ubuntu.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[jsav40]

Honestly, if you don't have a lot of time to sink into learning linux (i.e. make time) then don't bother. There are a lot of things to wrap your mind around and it takes a great deal of time to become as familiar as you are in Windows.

I *have* invested a good deal of time into learning linux just but prefer to invest it in Fedora. My response was a subjective assessment of why I (for the moment) *choose* to continue w/ Fedora Core 3 rather than using ubuntu.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Well, that (time to dedicate do linux) is not much of a problem as I've been playing on and off with it since 1995, so I'm not totaly new to it - but I'm no expert too.

I'm not going to try linux on my main box, it is going to be on a test machine. But I really want to play with it, as there are a few apps that I want to run that only exist for linux - xastir and aprsd being two of those.

But I appreciate your concerns anyway.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[Pros_n_Cons]

Nice plug for ubuntu on a fedora thread. If you're not 'trying' to troll a flamewar you sure don't think much.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[Pros_n_Cons]

yes its fixed in FC3, don't know about ubunto since I have not installed it yet. Maybe after it gets a reputation. Right now its just a baby who hasn't developed an identity yet just a bunch of ppl saying awww how cute. See what happens when it gets teeth.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Honest posts here and there. I tried FC1 and didn't think much of it. Time to do it again has come and I'm not sure which of the two aforementioned to pick.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[ebuck]

Fedora Core comes without the African Philosophy software layer, which not to offend our African Philosophy lovers out there, probably makes the software more stable. :)

But seriously, Fedora is heavily tested, backed by large corporations, retains independence from total corporate control, and the distro to watch if you're interested in what might be in the next RedHat release.

Ubuntu is well... lacking in many of these areas.

Re:How it compares to Ubuntu?

[Zemplar]

It was an easy choice for me. FC 1 and FC 2 would install properly, but never boot fully after the lengthly installs. However, Ubuntu is working great and I am very pleased with it.

Perhaps I'll try FC 3 to see if it even runs on my hardware.

when will we have FC4?

[Anonymous Coward]

could it be next week because I'm thinking these guys are a bit too slow. I'd like them to move the pace up a bit that way I really don't have time to get used to their distro before the next comes out.

Re:when will we have FC4?

[DrWhizBang]

6 months. Hardy har - but you forgot the <sarcasm> tags

Fedora

[digitaltraveller]

How do you apt-get dist upgrade with Fedora? --Don't ask.

Wierd since, Fedora decided to copy Debian's mistaken policy of offering three software troves called stable,testing and unstable.

When are they going to learn, users want ONE package tree, with the ability to migrate between versions and patches.

SURE, you'll say. Fedora is just Red Hat's loss leader product to wedge people into RHEL.

But wait until someone who has a superior understanding of the marketplace comes along and evaporates RH's marketshare. Then they will wish they'd had a better view of the market than 'per-ass proprietary enterprise linux'.

Otherwise a solid release from the folks at RH. Release Notes.

Re:Fedora

[pyros]

Wierd since, Fedora decided to copy Debian's mistaken policy of offering three software troves called stable,testing and unstable.

Uh, no .... Have a look here and tell me where it mentions stable/testing/unstable. The official Fedora package set contains exactly one version of each application. Third party packagers like Fedora.us and Livna.org have adopted the stable/testing/unstable split, but they are separate entities from Red Hat, and are not official Fedora packages.

I'll readily admit that I won't use Fedora without adding Fedora.us and Livna.org to my yum/apt sources, but you're either mistaken in your understanding of the Fedora community or spreading FUD.

Re:Fedora

[ebuck]

Actually, I use the different package trees.

Sure there's better ways to do it, but when I need that latest-and-greatest version of package XYZ, I fiddle with comments in my /etc/yum.conf file and pull in an unstable, bleeding-edge, package from my friendly Fedora repository.

Everyone else is free to keep pointing at stable forever, but don't advocate making a stable tree unstable, or worse yet, not exposing the development work to others who might desprately need it RIGHT NOW!

And as far as apt-get goes... how do you use your GM Vortec enging to move your BMW Mini along? Very poorly if at all is the answer, and if you do ask, then you shouldn't be doing it anyway. Use the right tool for the distro and life will be easier.

Re:Fedora

[digitaltraveller]

UH, YES...

Fedora.us was the original home of the Fedora project, which started out as 3rd party packages for Red Hat Linux. I wouldn't them 3rd Party any longer now that RH has publically stated the projects are integrated.

Also, Red Hat uses it. They just call them 'Development, Test, Updates'. Look here.

So actually it is you who is mistaken.

Re:Fedora

[juhaz]

I wouldn't them 3rd Party any longer now that RH has publically stated the projects are integrated.

There is integration and then there is integration, fedora.us became/becomes fedora extras, but it's not in the core, nor was extras enabled by default in fc2 at least, dunno about 3.
Officially endorsed third party, perhaps, but I'd say it's still third party.

Also, Red Hat uses it. They just call them 'Development, Test, Updates'.

No, they don't, not like Debian. Nor did they switch to that layout with Fedora, it's always been this way.

Though development (rawhide) somewhat resembles unstable, that's about it - test is not ever-changing tree of packages coming in from development that will get frozen at some point to become new stable, like it is in debian. RH's test are releases, beta so, but releases nevertheless.

Update? Yeah, of course stable version gets updates in every distribution on the planet.

Linux Screenshots

[stratjakt]

It's always a fancy desktop with cute icons, a shot of OpenOffice, one of GIMP, and then the rest are all of a thousand xterms opened up.

They end up showcasing the lack of good linux desktop applications, it's pretty funny if you're not a zealot.

Re:Linux Screenshots

[j.blechert]

Sadly this isn't all that funny (at least to me) a friend of mine would change to linux immediately if there was t-online banking (german online-banking app) available, but afaik it isn't

Re:Linux Screenshots

[xutopia]

tell her and others to complain about the situation. It changed CBC.ca in favor of Open source just by enough of us asking for it to change.

Re:Linux Screenshots

[gears5665]

the Command Line Interface is very powerful if you take the time to learn it.

GUIs have their place, but I'd propose that file manipulation, finding specific things, and email are not it.

If you need a GUI, then fire up python and perl and write a quick one to do what you'd like. I do much better looking at raw data and websites with graphs and charts produced by automated scripts.

Re:Linux Screenshots

[CrankyFool]

Linux has a bunch of good games!

There's Breakout ... Super Breakout ...

Photoshop

Re:Linux Screenshots

[killjoe]

Har Har Har. That's funny. I get it. People who like linux are zealots. You should be doing standup.

Zealot! Man where did you come up with that one.

Re:Linux Screenshots

[LDoggg_]

You know, this is really getting tiresome...
But I'll take the bait anyway.

Here's a list of 319 games.
And here's another 1400 or so games.

Much less than what's on windows, sure but still way more than enough to get my gaming fix. And this doesn't even count what you may be able to get to work through emulation.

Re:Linux Screenshots

[mattyrobinson69]

well thats funny because portage (as of 2 days ago) was 5.7mb. I dont mean the packages, i mean the text output of slocate | grep /usr/portage. Granted that did include the cache of portage in /var, but still - half of 5.7mb for a text listing of the packages that gentoo can install for me

Re:Linux Screenshots

[mr_goodwin]

True, but then last time I checked, you couldn't get Office and Photoshop free with Windows.

Re:Heidelberg?

[afd8856]

The name of a German city. Insightful, huh? :-) Actually, it's Fedora 3' release name.

Re:Oh, the irony!

[stratjakt]

Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 With 60 Hotfixes Installed.

You need service pack 4, that's your problem.

I don't believe that either "stabler" or "securer" are words.

Mirror in Europe

[Yenya]

Mirror whore mode on:

If you are in Europe and looking for a fast mirror, try this one (i386; x86_64 is here).
80 minutes after the release and my bandwidth and HDD speed is still not maxed out ...

(IAAAOTS - I am an administrator of this server).

Re:Mirror in Europe

[Todesmetall]

Maybe someone should set up a mirror in Heidelberg?

Re:Mirror in Europe

[realkiwi]

Sir your server rocks!!!

Re:Mirror in Europe

[cobbaut]

Wow thanks man!
My ADSL is maxed out downloading... from a slashdot link ;-)

Re:Mirror in Europe

[Yenya]

Now the server is somewhere near saturation, but still not maxed out: 440 FTP users,
350-400Mbit/s outgoing traffic, load average around 15-20. Server statistics are here. The server is 2x Opteron 244, Tyan S2882, 4GB RAM, 4x 120GB and 4x 180GB HDD (to be upgraded to 8x 250GB soon).

The usual (non-release-day) load is 30-100Mbit/s, ~150 FTP users.

Usually the first day downloaders have faster lines, so the second or third day the server might be fully loaded even at lower outgoing speed, because the read-ahead will not matter anymore.

Not specific to FC2

[Anonymous Coward]

> It was a problem specific to fc2

Not true. Mandrake 10 and Suse 9.1 also had this problem.

As one of the parents points out, it was an error with the parted application used by all three distros listed above.

Vector Graphics in Linux. (before Windows, btw)

[Anonymous Coward]

You want to know my favorite "brand new thing" with Gnome 2.8?

Vector-based graphics games like solitare. I know it's a small thing, but it's sooo purty.

Well for a card game. It's a small thing, but it's going to be cool once people start porting things wholesale over to vector graphics once it gets established.

Imagine: No more conflict between resolution/text size/desktop space.

Also for the programmers in here check out the new support for dbus and HAL in Gnome. Shadows of things to come in future revisions.

It's not a huge difference over 2.6, but it's a nice improvement with lots and lots of little refinements.

Re:Vector Graphics in Linux. (before Windows, btw)

[claytongulick]

How does the Gnome vector graphics rendering compare to SVG of Flash or is it apples and oranges?

Is it usable for non-game development (business app stuff)?

The reason I ask is I have been looking for a good vector based UI to use with Python (with standard widgets) but everything is either too raw (Cairo) to unsupported (SVG) or too proprietary (Flash).

Re:Vector Graphics in Linux. (before Windows, btw)

[Ur@eus]

GNOME vector graphics is SVG, see librsvg.sf.net for details.

kernel.org stats

[hpa]

From this morning...

570 Mbit/s (about 540 Mbit/s of which are mirrors.kernel.org, i.e. mostly Fedora); load average 232.44.

Re:Question

[Misch]

Suse is a sports car inside a family sedan. Suse also has nicer kernels. Redhat Kernels are just ...

Just what? Cup holders?

All insensetive clod jokes..

[shredluc]

are just karma boosters, you insensitve clod!

Re:All insensetive clod jokes..

[shredluc]

That's why i didn't, you insensitive clod! :)

Re:All insensetive clod jokes..

[shredluc]

I'm in the hole all the time so i'm allowed, besides my name is not sir. Signed, Karma Whoring Clod.

Bittorrent

[bcmm]

Yeah, you can network install.
FTP/HTTP always seem to corrupt large files. I have never had a broken ISO (i.e. doesn't match MD5 checksum) via bittorrent, because it has built-in checking of each chunk.

Relax

[RealProgrammer]

It's just a joke.

If you aren't happy with the level of humor, you can have your money back.

Time for standard kernels in these releases

[Viol8]

If the kernels are good enough for linus they should be good enough for these guys. 2.69-1.665?? Wtf? These days in any new dist other than slackware I bin the fscked up kernel that comes with it an install a stock one as I don't like surprises from we-can-do-it-better-than-the-main-team hacker code.

Re:Time for standard kernels in these releases

[erikvcl]

Exactly. And I can't tell you how many changes in FC and RH kernels/libraries completely break the system. You've got to back out to the "real" versions to get regular apps to build properly. The FC releases definitely need some real quality control.

Re:Time for standard kernels in these releases

[bnavarro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the SELinux kernel patches are a part of the stock kernel, and I'm not sure they ever will be. My guess would be that this is why Fedora always patches the standard kernel.

Re:Time for standard kernels in these releases

[m50d]

Apparently you missed the point where Alan Cox said "it's up to distro makers to make sure their kernels are stable". Not to mention breaking CD burning because Linus doesn't like the only interface that actually works well for doing it. 2.6 kernels are not stable enough for production use, and presumably FC users consider 2.4 to be too old. Notice that slackware is still stuck on 2.4, it's for a good reason.

Re:Time for standard kernels in these releases

[Sunspire]

This is completely the opposite of what Linus himself thinks. We've got a new kernel development process since the last kernel sumit, and the final stabilization is now explicitly left to the vendors.

2.6 is now both the stable and development branch for the foreseeable future. New features are rapidly integrated and 2.6.x.y versions are optionally released for stability, but a lot of the testing and QA is being offloaded to the distributions.

I personally want Red Hat to tweak their kernels. That's what a distributors job is in my opinion, pulling software from all sort of sources and integrating them into a coherent product. I want Red Hat to include fixes for ACPI, CD recording, and basically do everything to assure that I don't have to compile my own kernel. Red Hat employs some of the best core kernel developers, over the years they've earned my trust and that of my company's. So in a sense, yes, they can do better, and we expect it of them. Perhaps that's not the kind of vendor you're looking for, in which case just stick to Slackware.

Re:Time for standard kernels in these releases

[Sunspire]

SELinux is included in stock 2.6.

Re:Time for standard kernels in these releases

[Antique Geekmeister]

Me too. I want them to backport clear kernel fixes and driver additions to the older kernel, rather than publishing a fresh-off-the-presses and not yet stable kernel and forcing me to do a forklift upgrade of my kernels or hand roll my own patches. This is what RedHat gets paid for.

Re:Time for standard kernels in these releases

[bfields]

If the kernels are good enough for linus they should be good enough for these guys. 2.69-1.665??

I'd heard that the Fedora 2.6 kernels are actually much *closer* to mainline than previous vendor kernels have been. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Re:Time for standard kernels in these releases

[bicatu]

I would agree with you except for the fact that when you need a feature that does not come with stock kernel or even distro-kernel you are mostly out of luck.

The number of patches those distros apply make almost impossible to incorporate extra pacthes.

Re:Question

[Tanktalus]

Uneducated guess: that would be most likely due to KDE, not SuSE. The advantage of Fedora over SuSE in this case is solely that FC3 would be using a newer snapshot of the KDE build. (I'm not about to take sides in the RH vs SuSE war!)

Re:Oh, the irony!

[drunkahol]

Sure they are words . . .

I stabled the horse. Therefore I was the stabler of the horse.

I secured the stable. Therefore I was the securer of the stable.

Or thereabouts anyway. If in doubt - make words up. It's more fun. Just as long as you spell them properly.

2.3GB?

[thisisauniqueid]

Why is this a little over half the size of FC2?

Re:2.3GB?

[Sunspire]

The Fedora Core 2 DVD image also included the source discs. With Fedora Core 3 the DVD only contains the same binary data as on the 4 regular CDs. Makes more sense this way in my opinion.

Re:Heidelberg?

[Amadaeus]

Heidelberg is the codename for Core-3.

Mu.

[pavon]

That is not how things work. This isn't like debian where after a certain amount of time unstable is simply renamed stable. RHEL is developed completely apart from Fedora and the purpose of Fedora is not to be a testing version of RHEL. The purpose of Fedora is to get the bugs out of the bleeding edge software as fast as possible, not to debug the distro. A release early, release often strategy is the best way to obtain that goal.

Re:Mu.

[jdreed1024]

That is not how things work.

Yes, it is, mostly. It's how it worked even back in the day before RedHat pissed off the world. RHEL 2.x was RHL 7.x. RHEL 3 was RHL 9. And since the RHL product line became FC, RHEL 4 is in fact FC2.

Now, when a distribution 'becomes' RHEL, they add/remove a few features, do some packports, etc. But it's basically the same distribution. In fact, the up2date configuration for RHEL includes the Fedora repositories, just commented out.

It is true that RHEL has it's own beta process, and FC is not a "beta" of RHEL. But RHEL is very much based on FC (and, prior to that, RHL).

Re:Mu.

[JoeBuck]

That's not quite right. You are correct that Fedora releases are not beta versions of RHEL releases, but it is true that nearly everything risky that Red Hat wants to put in future RHEL releases gets tested out first in Fedora releases. Fedora 2, for example, most certainly was about debugging SELinux and gaining practical experience with how to use it effectively. So, Fedora is, in part, about debugging the distro.

Updates available

[osvejda]

Already! Announces here.

Re:Heidelberg

[packethead]

Redhat has used Manhattan.

Current torrent speed.

[buchan232]

I'm getting 330-390 kB/s On the I386 DVD
Whats everyone else getting?

Re:Current torrent speed.

[EmagGeek]

I just started and I'm getting an abyssmal 40KB/s down (80KB/s up)...

speed: 46.2 KB/s down - 85.3 KB/s
totals: 7.6 MB down - 15.3 MB up

Seems kinda unfair to me :)

Re:Seeking advice for distro without a GUI

[GNUguy]

Do you think Debian's installer blows because its not GUI? Have you tried their 4.0 installer? It's actually pretty nice.

-G

Re:Question

[LnxAddct]

Wow that is the truest statement I've ever heard except oh wait... replace all instances of Redhat and Fedora Core with Suse and all instance of Suse with Fedora Core. Here I'll do it for you:

Suse is like a normal Car. A four door family sedan. Fedora Core is a sports car inside a family sedan. Fedora Core also has nicer kernels. Suse Kernels are just ...

Ahh now *that* is the truest statement I've ever heard. Afterall Suse seems to be lacking SELinux (that simply *just works* in Fedora) oh yea and Fedora also has that nice new shiny 2.6.9 kernel that works extremely well with my laptop. Seems Suse is lacking a bit there too, oh yea... and iirc Suse is still stuck on Gnome 2.6, they need to get with the times, they are eating Fedora's dust they are moving so slow. Not to mention that YaST is the work of Satan and I couldn't even get Suse to boot on my laptop (it kept freezing when syslogd was being started and wouldn't go any further) I have yet to experience any problems with Fedora and thats why I'll continute to use it.
Regards,
Steve

Anyone else read as

[einhverfr]

Fedora Core Release 3 is out now, Heidelberg, 2.6.9-1.667 kernel, Firefox included !

Wow, a kernel with an included web browser! How nifty ;-)

Re:Does Fedora 3 burn?

[jejones]

When I tried FC3T2, I was able to burn a CD as myself (under FC2, I had to su in order to burn a CD)--so I expect that they've corrected that problem.

Installing Evolution Connector on FC3?

[4of12]

I've been struggling to get all the required pieces together so that Ximian Novell Connector works under the Evolution that comes with FC3.

Connector is part of FC3 by default, but I'd really like to try to use Evo 2.0.2 that comes with FC3 with its corresponding updated Connector to the MyCorp Exchange server (which I did under Evo 1.4.6 under RH9).

Has anyone done this succesfully for FC3 and want to share how easy it was?

Re:Installing Evolution Connector on FC3?

[purplebear]

According to the blurb about Evolution 2.0 from this page, http://www.novell.com/products/evolution/, connector is part of it, not a separate component.

kernel version

[daserver]

I wonder if there ever was a fedora kernel with version number 2.6.9-1.666 or if they just skipped it >:)

is this the final release?

[mseidl]

I have fedora core 2 final... if this is just r3 and not a final, i will wait to upgrade... I love fedora and the driver support! I had no problems running it. My new laptop should be here wednesday, so lets see how well it supports the ipw2200!

Re:is this the final release?

[Wapiti-eater]

Yes - this is Fedora Core 3 - final. Not a beta, not a test - but the actual relase of FC3.

Enjoy.

Re:ffox PR1

[yeremein]

Great, they have released it just one day before Firefox Final.

They could have wait 1 day.

Why? To make the traffic spike even worse?

FC3 has been in code freeze for a couple of weeks; it's not like they could have thrown in Firefox 1.0 if they released tomorrow. So we'll just have to download the RPM.

It's not like half the distro won't be obsolete in a week anyway... ;)

Re:screenshots

[LnxAddct]

Your statement is interesting from a psychological view point as any Intro to Psych student could tell you. Anyway your probably oppressing something that happened to you as a child, maybe your father touched you or took pictures of you that you would like to forget about. Anyway... you most likely are the homosexual simply because you are randomly accusing others of being one, your trying to make yourself feel better about your homesexual tendencies and justify it to yourself. Regardless, your ignorance is shown in your response by the fact that BitTorrent would very well be just as good at mirroring screenshots as well. I don't believe I ever specified ISO's. But then again you seem to be so distressed, which is seen through your excessive use of unnecessary and violent language, that any logic probably wouldn't make sense to you. Anyway... Say it with me, "Rick and Roll was touched by his father as a child, and when he's not crying to himself, he's taking out his anger on the world."
Regards,
Steve

Agere Systems Wireless Card 0111

[man_ls]

Does anyone know if this comes with an orinico module for the lastest Orinoco Gold cards? (Model 8420), which is an Agere Systems model 0111 card?

It's unrecognized and I was unable to successfully build drivers for it on anything else; ended up using my older rebadged Dell TrueMobile 1150 which is cracked and broken.

Two things, please answer.

[XO]

First:
Slashdot is now using banner advertisements that load Java. This came as quite a surprise to me, as my browser suddenly started paging out to disk, and freaked out for almost 5 minutes while it loaded Java, and ran a component that promptly crashed Java. That's just a comment. If anyone in admin cares, please fix it. Java is bad. Still.

Second:

Any suggestions on properly using apt-get to upgrade from FC1 to FC2 or FC3? I finally got apt-get to upgrde from X11 to XORG, and that caused my entire X system to not function.. so, looking for some help with the rest. lol

Re:Two things, please answer.

[Antique Geekmeister]

Use yum. Make a copy of your yum.conf called yum.conf.update, and replace the $releasever everywhere with the number "3". Then run "yum clean; yum -c yum.conf.update check-update" to pre-load the header files files, and "yum -c yum.conf.update yum; yum -c yum.conf.update update" to actuall do the updates. The new version of yum has some nice pre-downloading features, which is why I recommend updating it first.

Re:Two things, please answer.

[sirReal.83.]

Here's a suggestion about apt-get and upgrading between FCs: Don't. It's not supported. When things break, you have nobody to complain to other than whoever maintains your apt packages. If you want to upgrade in the safest way possible, boot from the first CD and upgrade via the installer (Anaconda).

Re:Two things, please answer.

[XO]

Uh.. Hello, it's Fedora. It's Not Supported, in any way shape or form.

For that matter, it's open source. No one really supports it anyway. (this is not flamebait. trust me, i've never received any useful support from anyone except the users of softwares)

Re:Two things, please answer.

[Skudd]

How reliable is this? I've heard a lot about people upgrading the entire distro via apt and yum, but I have not heard any statistics on how it turned out.

Re:Two things, please answer.

[Ian.Waring]

This process failed for me - I got a dependency conflict as the final step was trying to reconcile a couple of Xorg libraries needed to build the GIMP. So, I now have Azureus downloading the CD ISOs - and will burn them later ready to do an "upgrade". Ian W.

Re:Two things, please answer.

[smoker2]

First: Slashdot is now using banner advertisements that load Java. This came as quite a surprise to me, as my browser suddenly started paging out to disk, and freaked out for almost 5 minutes while it loaded Java, and ran a component that promptly crashed Java. That's just a comment. If anyone in admin cares, please fix it. Java is bad. Still.

Which OS, which browser, which Jdk ? On RH9, with Firefox 1.0 PR, and Sun j2re1.4.2_01 it all runs fine.

Are you sure you symlinked the plugin instead of copying it over to ~/.mozilla/plugins ? (assuming mozilla of course)
It says on the Sun site and in the README with the jdk, that using the plugin directly will crash java.

So my question is...

[kyle_b_gorman]

why couldn't Redhat Novell (also released a desktop linux distro today) wait ONE DAY so they could include Firefox 1.0 instead of one of the RC/PR series?

Granted, the Firefox team keeps changing their deadlines, but my PR (installed as a prepackaged binary for Slackware) crashes a few times a week. I would have waited a day if i was Redhat, considering how important I consider Firefox to the success of the FOSS movement, and the money and man-hours Redhat contributes to the Mozilla project.

Re:So my question is...

[lightsaber1]

It would have been more like a month...if you look at the release schedule, you would see that devel freeze hapened essentially a month ago. You have to release sometime, and at the pace software goes in the OSS world, there will always be someone complaining the newest version of something isn't included.

Anyhow, it's not difficult to upgrade to Firefox 1.0 once it's released, so you'll just have to do that.

Re:So my question is...

[einhverfr]

Anyhow, it's not difficult to upgrade to Firefox 1.0 once it's released, so you'll just have to do that.

Yum is a great tool, isn't it? During your weekly automated update, you will now get the latest version quite soon :-)

Re:So my question is...

[kyle_b_gorman]

sorry, should be "redhat and novell". and yes i did hit the preview button.

Release notes

[bnavarro]

here

Re:Release notes

[Panaflex]

Thank you, kind sir

Re:Heidelberg

[Todesmetall]

Are any FC developers living in these cities, or why did they decide to use these names?

Re:I was just asking on the Firefox forums...

[ebuck]

If this is really how you feel. I can't think of any major Linux distrobution that doesn't ship will Mozilla. Mabye when Firefox reaches 1.0, then distros will consider including it in their offerings, but right now you're asking for pre-release software in a stable distribution offering.

Does FC do net installs?

[meanfriend]

Is it possible to install FCx with some sort of net installer so you dont need to download the full iso set? ie. get a small iso that contains a bare install and download the rest as you go?

If you want to set up a thin desktop with only a limited number of apps (GUI, browser, openoffice, email client, XMMS), it seems a waste to download 2+ GB of iso's full of stuff you will probably never use. And because FC is so bleeding edge, by the time you do need package XYZ, there is likely an updated version in the repository anyways...

Other distros (eg. Debian, Suse) do this and it's very convienent. I like to try out different distros but the idea of downloading a full CD set for something I'll only kick around for fun turns me off.

Re:Does FC do net installs?

[Erwos]

Yes, you can. AFAIK, it's been there since at least Red Hat 8, and probably before. Anaconda kicks a lot of ass.

-Erwos

Re:Does FC do net installs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, just get the "boot.iso" (about 5MB) and use that, point it to an FTP/HTTP server with the RPMs, and it will pull them down.

Re:Does FC do net installs?

[Jagasian]

Note that the boot.iso is in the "...os/images" directory on any mirror. When you boot the small ISO, you will be asked for the mirror URL, which as best as I remember ends in ".../os/".

Re:Does FC do net installs?

[meanfriend]

That's a good tip but how is anyone supposed to know that? Alternative install options seems to be really poorly documented.

Quoting from http://fedora.redhat.com/download/

Download the Files You Need

To install Fedora Core, download the DVD image or the four ISO images of the installation CD-ROMs, even if you are planning to perform a hard drive installation.

They dont even mention the fact there is a network install option. By reading that statement, it sounds like you need to get all the iso's.

Re:Does FC do net installs?

[Spoing]

1. They dont even mention the fact there is a network install option. By reading that statement, it sounds like you need to get all the iso's.

They are trying to keep it simple...or just forgot.

Either way, it's not much of a hardship. Anyone who knows about network installs already knows that they are available and can figure out what to grab from the mirror sites. This has not changed in many years and is a given for most multi-CD distributions and most of the *BSD forks, not just Feora or RH.

Re:Heidelberg

[Kortec]

Actually, Fedora Core 2 (tettnang) was named after a small town in northern germany. Yarrow (Core 1, now legacy) is a plant, but it's used for a beer-like sort of dealie, also a german thing from all reports.

NFS

[soloport]

Three easy steps to installation bliss: 1) Put each ISO image into an NFS share on a remote computer. (You don't even have to unpack the images -- as some HOWTOs suggest.)

2) Burn only the first ISO to CD-R. Upon boot (from CD-ROM), when the "Linux:" prompt appears, enter the following:
linux askmethod

3) Profit! Uh... No. Actually, after a: selecting NFS from the list and b: requesting (DHCP-enabled networks) or specifying an IP address, c: enter the NFS server's IP address and the NFS path where the ISO images are located (not the mount point, the actual path from the root -- e.g. /var/local/nfs/fedora/tettnang/).

And that's it! If you're connecting over Fast Ethernet, your installation will be unbelievably fast -- and you can avoid having to swap CD-ROMs as you go.

Re:NFS

[Junta]

Lame, burning *any* cd, just use pxe to netboot an image...

Does fedora and the like still provide bootnet.img so that if you don't have PXE you can netboot from a floppy and not waste a single CD?

Re:NFS

[soloport]

Is this what you mean?

Re:NFS

[mbbac]

I choose to install Fedora by downloading the DVD image over BitTorrent on my PowerMac. Mounting the DVD image and dragging the files into ~/Sites/install/. Then I can boot my old Gateway system using a boot CD and install from my Mac's Apache server (i.e. http://192.168.1.2/~mbbac/install/).

Re:NFS

[entitude]

That URL doesn't work for me, please check it for typos?

That is an example url, and a local one, at that.
It's not going to work for anybody.

Re:NFS

[ogreinside]

2) Burn only the first ISO to CD-R

Why do that? Just burn the 4MB boot.iso. No "askmethod" needed.

In fact, burn a cd with all of the boot.iso data, and using isolinux, choose which image to boot from (RedHat 9, RHEL 3, Fedora Core 2, etc).

Ogre

Re:NFS

[menscher]

Look at the file sizes. 6 meg on a floppy? I'm guessing that's NOT what the grandparent meant. The last release to support floppy boot was FC1. The 2.6 kernel of FC2 and above is simply too large to fit on a floppy, even with most drivers stripped out.

Re:NFS

[Kynde]

Now, the only problem is the torrent only gives me 30KB download speed;(.

Yeah, I've been experiencing similar things with torrent for months now. I have +10Mbps up/down streams here and I remember those ~1Mbyte up/down sessions with bittorrent, but ... for quite some time now, it's been sluggish as hell. I have no idea why, p2ps and other sources have provided me all the bandwidth I've wanted, even now 4 ftp sites are pushing 800k down, so I've never really looked into it, but still, it makes me wonder what's going on, because I'd be more than happy to contribute with the upstream we have here.

Others experiencing sluggishness with bt? Has something changed with bt during the past year?

Re:NFS

[Kynde]

3) Profit! Uh... No. Actually, after a: selecting NFS from the list and b: requesting (DHCP-enabled networks) or specifying an IP address, c: enter the NFS server's IP address and the NFS path where the ISO images are located (not the mount point, the actual path from the root -- e.g. /var/local/nfs/fedora/tettnang/

I always do it that way, but...

Are others having problems with the network set up?
The install exits with signal 11 here, with or without dhcp. And the box is a vanilla i386 with a really vanilla 3com network card.

Misunderstood feature

[jd]

That wasn't a bug, that was a virus prevention strategy. :)

Wireless support

[rainman_bc]

Anyone care to comment on the wireless support out of the box? Not too big of a fan of farting around with linux-wlan -> if I get good wireless support, I'll make the plunge and switch... I'd tried before, and that was my big road block. I had a lot of issues installing linux-wlan.

Anyway, I'd like to hear some info on wireless spport... Thanks!

Re:Wireless support

[jnd3]

And along with WLAN (which has kept me away from Linux for the past couple years), is there support for wireless keyboard/mouse in the installer? I went to try some other distros after getting the Logitech MX duo and nothing would work because the keyboard didn't work.

Re:Wireless support

[LnxAddct]

Unfortunately I can't find the link to back this up, but yes apparently wireless in Fedora has had a few improvements. Although to be honest it wasn't that bad in FC2. I think most of the improvements now came over with Gnome 2.8 which really did a great job with their networking stuff this time around. Also 2.6.9 supports more hardware then ever before, and has pretty good performance. I'd check it out if I were you, its worth it. (If you do decide to check it out, make sure you read up on SELinux too, its a preety awesome feature)
Regards,
Steve

Re:Wireless support

[rainman_bc]

Awesome! Thanks for the info -> I'll give it a shot again... That's the only caveat I have with Linux on the desktop right now is the sketchy implementation of wireless support, including WEP -> I don't run my wireless network without it...

MD5SUM

[hotneutron]

heidelberg-binary-i386
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

ca49964739f84848ca78fc03662272fb FC3-i386-DVD.iso
e5e0328370d899bd77c8d5c7f1bd3ead FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso
5cf3f9ae84d8d0ec49679618 c9cc2236 FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc2.iso
ee5f134b6880145e576c97c3 561cd787 FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc3.iso
7c57d517a6b0bb98b5860039 2f44ef36 FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc4.iso
db8c7254beeb4f6b891d1ed3 f689b412 FC3-i386-disc1.iso
2c11674cf429fe570445afd9d5ff56 4e FC3-i386-disc2.iso
f88f6ab5947ca41f3cf31db0448727 9b FC3-i386-disc3.iso
6331c00aa3e8c088cc365eeb7ef230 ea FC3-i386-disc4.iso
07bb34ce97b62b99f84d32812a2eec 75 FC3-i386-rescuecd.iso
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFBiWL+tEJp0E8qb9IRAtvbAJ9ogGEnoKYeT9exJ/Bp O8 stFfclAwCfWy6h
iYqa2g5AiQK3PldULLM0Zhw=
=gMjQ
- ----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

heidelberg-binary-x86_64
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

2786a751df919f340d967a4833b63b16 FC3-x86_64-DVD.iso
0b9f23eff713db3a0d5a778e38d702 99 FC3-x86_64-SRPMS-disc1.iso
bd15bac386cdc30b6fcdf8 e7da633403 FC3-x86_64-SRPMS-disc2.iso
d89ea5afcb3b94cbfaa3c2 75455d45a4 FC3-x86_64-SRPMS-disc3.iso
d177e8134ffff13e0029fe 31a9f20c85 FC3-x86_64-SRPMS-disc4.iso
b61b0eb7e0171837aeeff4 f0054a4d79 FC3-x86_64-disc1.iso
99dc12c7e8a93844a48a5675a9c0 7ec9 FC3-x86_64-disc2.iso
399b7ffd721ebb4244a02c34cdbb 1b82 FC3-x86_64-disc3.iso
f58b1de3b880df55dbbd37d14341 9226 FC3-x86_64-disc4.iso
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFBiWW9tEJp0E8qb9IRAiL2AJ9WPp23dJDCI4KUBtOk Ew K5ilz9DACeIzNa
tEhZiwbsnkhseHhKIqUGfDo=
=CjaW
- ----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re:MD5SUM

[Wapiti-eater]

Be cautious - I may have screwed up something here, wouldn't be the first time - but I get a 'BAD SIGNATURE' from "Fedora Project " on the above MD5SUMS.

Anyone else verify?

Re:MD5SUM

[hotneutron]

Check the MD5SUM at the official website here http://fedora.redhat.com/download/

Re:MD5SUM

[Wapiti-eater]

Yup - as has happend on many occasions, I screwed that poooch. They're good.

Sorry hotneutron! My bad.

Re:Heidelberg?

[jd]

If you download Fedora Core 3, you get a Free German city? Cool!!!

Huh?

[misleb]

They're just friekin' screenshots! Give it a rest, troll.

Multiple - 8 OC-192's available at SC2004

[Danathar]

If anybody at SC2004 (Supercomputing 2004) in Pittsburg (currently in progress) Is reading this, get somebody on the floor with a big RAID box and a 10 GigE connection to join the torrent!

It's like an alignment of stars! SC2004 bandwidth challenge and Fedora Core 3 released at the same time!

http://www.sc-conference.org/sc2004/bandwidth.ht ml

yea baby! 8 OC-192s....for a limited time only!

Re:Multiple - 8 OC-192's available at SC2004

[NerveGas]

For SC2004, SCinet expects to bring 8 OC-192c circuits into the convention
center. This kind of bandwidth exceeds the available bandwidth into and out all
but the largest countries in the world.

Considering that the data center that my servers are in has two OC-192s in it, that it's not a terribly large data center, and that I'm not even in a terribly large city, the above statement sounds a bit on the sensational side to me.

steve

Re:Multiple - 8 OC-192's available at SC2004

[Danathar]

Well..probably so...but 80Gb/s of aggregate bandwidth is still nothing to sneeze at. Remember that the current single connection speed for any connection (land speed record over internet 2) is at around 6.5 Gb/s

http://www.infosatellite.com/news/2004/09/p13090 4i nternet2.html

More importantly. SC is one of the places each year that Networking companies use to test new gear. The convention encourages people to use the bandwidth for anything as long as its legal since they are demoing equipment and gear.

I say if they have the bandwidth available for this week...why not use it.

It's not like I'm trying to get anybody to buy anything

Should have seen this coming.

[wayward_son]

I just spend the better part of the weekend installing FC2 on my laptop.

Question: Mandrake or Fedora?

[schroedlzone]

Curious on what you guys would suggest.

I desire to use linux 100% on my laptop. I've been a windoze peon for eons and I'm slowing becoming familiar with the console. I installed Mandrake 10.1 Community on my laptop and have been running it for 2 weeks and have done a lot with it (nVidia driver install, Samba shares, KDE customization, etc). The problem is that my Mandrake KDE (3.2) has many mysterious crashes of certain apps (konqueror) and many fustrating slowdowns for no good reason.
I like mandrake's system control panels and it detects all my strange usb hardware but these crashes are all too random. Would Fedora be a better bet?

Re:Question: Mandrake or Fedora?

[mattyrobinson69]

I have no experience with mandrake 10.1, but i would assume this is hardware failure (ram) - different os's tickle the ram in different ways so you might not notice it on windows.

Download the gentoo universal installer and use the memteset86 (one of the boot options). its very very easy to use and it'll test your ram:

A simple guide (not meaning to be patronising) because most people refuse to believe that gentoo makes some things very easy (besides updating packages:

boot gentoo universal installer
choose memtest86 from the boot menu
let it check your memory

My linux upgrades keep chugging...

[saur2004]

My windows upgrades have stoped dead. ;P

Yes I keep a windows box around for those odd things that just wont run correctly under wine. And yes I am ashamed that I actually PAYED the Borg for the copy of Windows 2k.

But its stuck at SP2 and I can say that that is the end for software from the Borg for me.

On the other hand my linux box just keeps up updating and updating and updating as fast as I can grab the ISOs ;P

Re:My linux upgrades keep chugging...

[QCompson]

paid the borg... you PAID the borg... sheesh

Re:My linux upgrades keep chugging...

[mattyrobinson69]

install one of the debian based distro's, then your linux box will keep on updating as fast as you can type (something along the lines of) apt-get sync ; apt-get -u world

(thats actually emerges syntax but i presume aptget is similar)

Re:Seeking advice for distro without a GUI

[ebuck]

If you can spare the time, Fedora is a great distrobution. If you can spare the money, RedHat has great support.

WhiteBoxLinux is just a RHEL knockoff. That doesn't mean that it's quality is better / equal / worse than RHEL, but it's like getting RHEL without the RedHat support (the main reason to go RHEL).

Other major distros include SuSE, Mandrake, and Debian. In these cases, these systems will have a different feel, as they aren't as closely connected to the RedHat family tree. SuSE has excellent documentation, but sometimes the documentation is best read in German, and some love (or hate) it's configuration tool, yast. Mandrake isn't really concerned with supporting a setup like yours, they are targeting the "easy to use desktop" crowd, so it's not recommended for your needs. Debian is loved by those who use it, and tolerated by those who don't :) Consider it the "as free as possible" distribution, which has good and bad points.

I know that my views are opinions, everyone should discover the distros for themselves. For those who feel differently, please be rational and not turn this thread into a flame-fest.

the city or the beer?

[Rasputin]

I hope it's the city, 'cause the beer was nasty!

Heidelberg, Heidelberg, Heidelberg, Heidelberg, Heidelberg beeeeer!

(guess you have to have heard the ad for that to work :)

Re:the city or the beer?

[Kmos]

That's the reason why I born there (Germany).. hehe =)

Re:the city or the beer?

[juhaz]

Kind of both, perhaps. At least during RHL, code names tended to be interlinked in strange ways.

So... Yarrow is something you use for making beer, Tettnang is a german town with breweries, Heidelberg is town and a beer... FC4 will probably be a beer.

Correction

[paulproteus]

I believe that's now the worst part of your weekend.

Re:fiiiinally It's Slashdotted !

[Kick the Donkey]

Don't you mean 'insensitive clod'? Hah! I finnaly got to use that in a post! Woot! er... Ye-ha?

Try again

[bill_mcgonigle]

I tried to get FW working with FC2, but eventually gave up...

There were kernel issues initially that were fixed a while later.

I installed FC2 from .iso's on a machine last week - no firewire. Did a yum update. Reboot. Perfect firewire.

New in Gnome 2.8

[houseofmore]

For what's new in gnome 2.8 (from 2.6 in code 2), see http://www.gnome.org/start/2.8/notes/rnwhatsnew.ht ml

Screenshots included.

JavaBlock / Java Click-to-view

[trafik]

Responding to your "First":

I have noticed the same thing in the last little while. I think that they are doing that to get past some of Mozilla's excellent annoyance blockers (think FlashBlock (a.k.a. "Flash Click to View")).

I think it's time to fork FlashBlock to create a "JavaBlock" extension.

Should be a simple hack (famous last words ;-). The only thing I would feel bad about, is further escalating the arms race (between web users and web advertisers).

T

Rather than screenshots, how about a faq?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would rather see a deescription of what new features Fedora Core 3 has that Fedora Core 2 doesn't have. Then I can determine whether it's worth the bother to upgrade. Screenshots are irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

Re:Rather than screenshots, how about a faq?

[elandal]

one word: selinux

Re:Rather than screenshots, how about a faq?

[mattyrobinson69]

its not just packages that weren't there before - its updated packages as well. is the sumary of this article right in saying kde 3.3? thats out of date now...

Re:FC2 caused my computer to crash

[NerveGas]

I just reinstalled RH9 because FC2 was causing my Dell Optiplex GX260 to oops and crash on a null pointer dereference at interrupt time.

Have you ever thought that your hardware may have been causing FC2 to crash?

steve

been there, done that, have the t-shit Re:NFS

[phsdv]

Actully this is not a very new technique. Back in the golden days of OS/2, (what was it, 10 or 20 years ago?) you could already do an install via NFS. Otherwise you had to install Warp from 30 or 40 floppies....

Re:been there, done that, have the t-shit Re:NFS

[JanneM]

Off topic, but IBM gave Warp boxes to any CompSci student that wanted them at my university, and those 40-odd floppies was what I used to download my first version of Slakware.

Screenshots

[McLoud]

I wanted to see the screenshots, but looks like linux-noob got /.'ted. Very funny for that domain name :)

Re:I was just asking on the Firefox forums...

[skogs]

exactly...so I know it couldn't come out before when it was super new software. I don't even like mozilla. I was wondering on the forums when other venders would start shipping firefox. Honestly, I want to know the name of moderator that marked my post flamebait. How is mentioning that just a few days ago I was asking about this very topic on the firefox forums a flame? How is admitting that firefox has a following because it at lease 'seems' to be fast, featureful, and trouble free - and lets not mistake the issue here. All browsers, regardless of your personal philosophy, need to be measured against Microsofts Internet Explorer. Firefox is the only one, as a browser, to beat it in the performance category. Other netscape derived projects are excellent, but still 'seem' inherantly buggy and slow - their featureset is better than IE or even firefox...but they are still slow to render, and buggy. I was simply asking on the forum the other day if anybody was shipping with firefox since it is near full release quality now. Flame me all you want you half-wit moderating trash eaters.

Too bad...

[xeon4life]

Thunderbird 0.9 is out now... :-(

When

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

are the other distros going to incorporate YAST? I'm beginning to wonder if anyone will...

VMWare support this time around?

[__aaclcg7560]

Does anyone know if FC3 has better support for installing and running under VMWare? Getting FC2 to work last time around was a pain.

Re:VMWare support this time around?

[__aaclcg7560]

Hmmm... I was hoping for actual user experience since I'm *still* waiting for the torrent to get done. The release notes (which are not on the website for this version) doesn't explain how much pain is involve.

Re:Time to Upgrade; apt-get+bt?

[UnapprovedThought]

I don't use FC, but this gives me an idea to lighten the burden on distro servers everywhere.

Why not an apt-get with a bt capability? Or is it already in the works? Shouldn't be that hard to add...

Well actually...

[engine matrix]

In addition to support RHEL provides long-term release schedules that are appropriate for enterprise environments. Not only that, but they work with software/hardware companies to make sure their drivers and applications work or are certified to work.

My company spends 17k per-cpu for WebLogic licenses. $1500 for a RHEL is nothing considering the fact that WebLogic support will tell us to bug-off if we are not using RHEL.

Also, I haven't tried Whitebox Linux, but I completely recommend CentOS. Whitebox and CentOS are not knockoffs of RHEL. They are distributions based on the source RPM's of RHEL. This means I can have a dev/staging environment that has perfect binary compatibility with my production environment with zero licensing costs.

Released prior to FireFox 1.0

[Denis Lemire]

I'm extremely pleased that they now include FireFox in the default distribution. Although I can't help thinking if they just waited one more day before release they could have included the final version of FireFox instead of the preview release (final version comes out tommorow).

All well. Guess thats what yum and the like are for.

Just got CD #1

[Kymermosst]

Too bad I'm only averaging 350 K/sec over FTP. It takes about 30 minutes to download a disc. :(

4k stack?

[bongo69]

Do they still ship with a 4k stack compiled kernel? This is a real pain in the ass for getting linksys wifi cards to work as ndiswrapper does not support 4k stacks.

Don't forget about Java, Helix and Synaptics!

[xbsd]

They also added HelixPlayer (Real), Synaptics and now you can use Java *almost* out-of-the-box.

WARNING ALL DOWNLOADING FROM SUPRNOVA

[justsomebody]

Just out of curiosity I downloaded images from suprnova and checked md5sum

Original md5sum
db8c7254beeb4f6b891d1ed3f689b412 FC3-i386-disc1.iso
2c11674cf429fe570445afd9d5ff56 4e FC3-i386-disc2.iso
f88f6ab5947ca41f3cf31db0448727 9b FC3-i386-disc3.iso
6331c00aa3e8c088cc365eeb7ef230 ea FC3-i386-disc4.iso

Suprnova md5sum
5f99bc2fb3685cb52ef1ea6a2a8b27ce FC3-i386-disc1.iso
eda0debffcb97f63162782818727c1 c4 FC3-i386-disc2.iso
f6da03ef5d78ed1fef464970c82faf b0 FC3-i386-disc3.iso
b6e2e7c9b86b49d9cab1557be00437 4f FC3-i386-disc4.iso

Re:WARNING ALL DOWNLOADING FROM SUPRNOVA

[no_such_user]

The Suprnova post was for an RC released Oct-29. See this redhat.com link. If you dowloaded the suprnova torrent, erase it and start again from the official torrent site. If you're not sure, md5sum your results and compare them to the official ones.

Fedora Core 3 Updates

[mgbaron]

I installed fedora C3 test 3 just a few days prior to this. I knew the release was soon but I was anxious. I'm not entirely sure the updater is working, because I figured there would be some sort of update when the real release hit. This is not the case. Should i download the whole thing again?

Anyway, interesting that as of a few days ago there was no bundled firefox. I've been using as my number primary browser for so long I forget that its not a standard yet!

Re:screenshots

[Rick and Roll]

You lost me during the second sentence.

Too late.

[dtfinch]

Already switched to Ubuntu. Just uncommented a couple apt repositories and added a couple more and now I can find and install any of nearly 15000 packages with point and click ease and speed.

Now I just need to figure out how to work around the sillyness of gnome's mime sniffing security paranoia that has pushed away so many members of their once loyal user base. If I ever get it fixed I'll send them some nice patches to reject.

Code name sounds like Hindenburg

[theurge14]

Hope it doesnt burn up and die on me.

Has anyone tried the SELinux option?

[Bun]

I'm just wondering how advantageous it is, and whether it breaks anything/makes them more difficult to use.

Re:MOD Parent up, and answer

[qoa]

It was a problem with the 2.6 kernal and the app "Part" I believe.

VPN Support?

[JoshRoss]

Does Core 3 Have VPN support yet?

I wanted to use it from home, and VPN in to work. Alas, no VPN client. Also there wasn't a RDP client.

Software suspend?

[edxwelch]

Does it come with software suspend enabled?

Fedora Core Network Install

[johnwyles]

I have a detailed document on the upgrade procedure from Core 1 to Core 2 here that I would imagine would be very helpful in upgrading from Core 2 to Core 3. I will verify it later tonight when I get a chance to try it out, but again I cannot imagine things have changed too much.

Are you sure?

[crazy2k]

It is the only distro that runs on my laptop, and it is the only distro that I have been able to reliably install on just about any machine.

Are you sure? Maybe you haven't seen other alternatives. Actually, most of the ditros run almost everywhere. That's what Linux is about: 'Flexibility.'

Good Mirror

[sabat]

FWIW, I averaged 500kbs and got all four CDs in about 20 mins each, using

rsync://ftp.muug.mb.ca/pub/fedora/linux/core/

They also have http and ftp available, but rsync is probably the most efficient IMHO.

Can the installer resize ntfs partitions?

[Entropius]

One attractive feature of Mandrake is the ntfsresize support built into the installer. Does Fedora Core 3 do this?

Grub Bootloader problem: error 28

[PommeFritz]

I get "error 28 selected item cannot fit into memory" when trying to install the Grub bootloader.
What's going on?

Let me get this straight...

[wolftone]

You want to use a distro without a GUI, but refuse to use an installer that is a little archaic? Have you even tried the debian installer?

Don't do this

[scheme]

Anaconda does a few things that a yum or up2date upgrade will not do. I believe that one of those things is labeling the files with the correct selinux security contexts. Without these contexts, your system may be flakey, unstable, or unbootable after the update.

The FC1 and FC2 installs might have worked due to selinux not being enabled but with selinux enabled to deny unauthorized actions, this update may not be as smooth.

Re:Seeking advice for distro without a GUI

[Snipes420]

Have you looked into the BSD's? I love FreeBSD for my headless machines.

Need bittorrent users !

[bicatu]

Hi, I am trying to download but it seems that most users download and simply stop sharing...

Please stay online :)

Worked for Me

[poofyhairguy82]

I downloaded Fedora Core 3, and installed it on a toshiba laptop that never quite worked how I wanted in Mandrake. The wireless card (Linksys WPC11 v3) worked without a hitch (wish I could say that about the new Mandrake) and the power controls worked how I wanted (compuer never sleeps!).

Try it dude. If it doesn't work, your going to have to shell out the money for SUSE anyway.

My two cents...

Re:Worked for Me

[rainman_bc]

lol sounds like it's worthy... Rad... Might be able to switch to FC3 when it's RTM... W00t! How's the WEP? Any trouble?

Re:Worked for Me

[poofyhairguy82]

Its the best laptop distro I've tried out of many. Its real slick- almost enough to draw me out of debian.

I didn't try to set up the WEP, but here is a how-to!

http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthre ad.php?t=25891

666 + one

[dankelley]

I notice the kernel is build-number 667, i.e. the number of the beast, plus unity. Any significance to that?

What?

[BobofBobs]

What exactly is Fedora Core, anyway....? Linux? and can I install it on my ibook (still got 33 GB of space, so..)?