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Longhorn Preview
itraor writes "PC World has previewed Longhorn, not the first one out I guess. Among the few noted features is that Windows now offers translucent UI, finally catching up with Apple. "
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Hasn't microsoft sort of always followed apple?
I love the "bell and whistle" logo they've applied to the story. Very appropriate, especially since the review discussess little besides the eye candy.
...in 3 to 5 more years.
Zing!
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
Why the fuck would I want everything translucent?
"PC World has previewed Longhorn. Not the first one out, I guess. Among the few noted features is that Windows now offers translucent UI. Finally catching up with Apple."
Christ, Taco. My smegma is a more qualified editor than you.
Oh well. At least it isn't another fucking dupe.
"PC World has previewed Longhorn, not the first one out i guess. Amoung the few noted features is that Windows now offers transluscent UI, finally catching up with Apple. "
And who said Slashdot doesn't have quality control ?
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
hey guys,
:) if you're reading this, i look forward to meeting you in person, john!
i'm not sure exactly what i'm doing here. so...bear with me!
i clicked "geeky" on my match.com personals profile, thinking that i'd maybe get hooked up with somebody who was into math or some kind of toy train hobby or something...boy howdy was i in for a shock! i went on 4 dates with guys who all got on match.com because of osdn personals from slash-dot! 4 guys!
anyway, it didn't really work out with any of them, because it seemed like they were all under some kind of mind-control robot or something! i was like "what do you think about office? office 97 is enough for me, but there are some things about xp that are cool too...." the first guy i asked that to exploded on this tyrade about how office was evil, and that it uses html that's invalid...blah blah blah, whatever...i figured "ok, this guys a freak, but i'm not giving up that easily." so guy number two and i are having dinner, and just as a test i bring up office, and he says the *exact* *same* *things* the first guy said! it was like he was reading from a script! i'm thinking to myself "is everybody from slash-dot programmed to say the same thing or what?" i decided to do a bit of investigation.
i actually surfed over to slash-dot and read some of the articles...mostly they were pretty boring, and the comments were just like i expected judging from my previous past experience: scripted!!! just when i was about to completely write the whole thing off, i found a post from some guy who's with anti-slash, some kind of anti-slash-dot website. i mailed him and was all "i so agree with you guys, look at what sheep these slash-dot people are!" he wrote back and made some funny comments (funny and so *true*!...that is soooo the best kind of humor...but i dirgress...) and guess what? this weekend i'm supposed to meet him for dinner
anyway, that's my story. ladies: if you're looking for the real cool geeks, check out anti-slash. and fellas, you should check it out too and maybe use to to break out of your mind-control suits!
ok see ya later,
cyndi
Hmmm...more & more like Copeland evey day...
The newest versions of the next Windows add graphics sizzle and more search features but lack visible productivity enhancements.
Scott Spanbauer From the August 2005 issue of PC World magazine Posted Wednesday, June 22, 2005
The most recent build of Longhorn--Microsoft's next Windows--has some impressive visual touches, including the kinds of translucent objects found now in Apple's OS X, and more powerful ways of finding files. But it doesn't yet exhibit any breakthroughs in productivity, or promised features such as security improvements and smarter connections to handheld devices.
We tested the 64-bit version of the latest code released to developers (Longhorn build 5048) and have also viewed demonstrations of a subsequent build. The first beta version of the operating system is due for release this summer.
Over the last several years, Microsoft has touted Longhorn's trio of significant innovations: a graphics engine dubbed Avalon; a technology called Indigo that enables programs on different computers or devices to communicate; and an indexed, searchable data storage layer called WinFS. But when faced with a self-imposed release deadline of late 2006, Microsoft decided last year to pull WinFS out of Longhorn, promising to release that component as an add-on at a later date.
So what of the two remaining Longhorn design pillars? A new desktop theme called Aero is about the only sign of Avalon graphics in our pre-beta. Turning mundane buttons, window frames, title bars, and icons into animated, 3D-rendered, and sometimes transparent objects, Aero brings the Windows interface to life. Indigo, which supports enhanced Web services, won't be visible to end users.
But even though WinFS is now out of the mix, Microsoft has taken advantage of file attributes in the NTFS file system already available in Windows XP to make Explorer better at ferreting out documents according to author, camera model (for photographs), or genre or album title (for music files). The operating system lets you create virtual lists based on these attributes so that, for example, you can see every photo on your system or all Microsoft Word files, regardless of where they are stored and without having to explicitly search for them.
Longhorn will also do a better job of connecting to smart phones (Microsoft wouldn't indicate whether the phones would have to run the company's Windows Mobile operating system), cameras, and audio players, improving their integration into Explorer and making file transfers and synchronization more consistent across device types. Still notably absent from the Longhorn builds we've looked at are new versions of the Internet Explorer browser (even though Microsoft has said it is close to releasing a beta of IE 7) or any other bundled utilities. Gone, for the time being anyway, is the desktop sidebar that lurked in previous preliminary versions of Longhorn.
And in spite of announced planned enhancements such as monitoring of outbound data (Windows XP's firewall watches inbound traffic only), protection against malware, a new type of restricted user account, and a secure startup scheme to ensure that a PC hasn't been tampered with, Longhorn so far has the same minimal security toolbox as Windows XP with Service Pack 2.
Though security remains an unresolved issue, build 5048 brings Longhorn's graphical user interface into sharper focus.
Catch-Up Eye Candy
The new Avalon graphics engine includes a programming interface that permits Microsoft and third-party software makers alike to write applications that put the latest and greatest graphics cards to work rotating, texturing, and fading windows, as well as making menus, title bars, and other elements translucent--finally enabling Windows to catch up to Apple's OS X, several years after the fact.
We managed to activate a subset of these features in our copy of Longhorn build 5048, and they're certainly welcome refinements (see top screen). Nevertheles
Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
Why can't /. editors spell check posts?
amoung - among
Windows has supported hardware alpha blending since Windows 2000. OS X has supported it since about the same time. When will X.org and desktop environments bring this capability to linux?
Translucent UI. With frills!
What the hell is everyone's fascination with transparency. Get a big LCD (or a second LCD) if you need to see stuff. I don't get why it's such a wonder-feature.
Okay, from what I see about this beta, Microsoft is using the eye candy just for that, to show everyone how aweseome Longhorn is because your titlebars are semi-transparent. OOO! I'm totally uprading because of that!
Looks like it will cause some nastyy readability problems. Apple uses eye candy in OS X for a reason! the windows suck down to the dock so you can see where they went. The active window has shadows to let you know its the active window. Users change with a cube flip because its easier on their brains. I'm afraid that this would do nothing but chew up processor resources with crap that I don't find useful. Expect a lot of eyecandy-disabling apps to come out very quickly.
So MS is playing catch up with Apple because of adding translucents that Apple already has? Well my video card offers translucents and it takes a newer video card to do it without bogging down the system. The Nvidia cards I have can make widows translucent while dragging them around on the screen that is offered as an add-on instead of making it a part of the OS. No this isn't a follow the leader it is follow the hardware availability schema. What are the odds of you upgrading your video card simply for an OS - Probably not high for most of the computer users? MS is just using what will be available and has very little to do with Apple except maybe it was a good idea who's time has come.
That interface is more cluttered and garish than go.com, or some other failed late-90s "web portal". I'm used to trying to help users who wind up with some kind of mental block against using the start menu because every time they click on the start menu they're so overwhelmed with confusing options and information they don't understand that it's more than they can hendle. I guess I should preemptively get used to helping users who wind up with a similar mental block against using the windows file browser.
I thought, when I first saw that Mac OS X release, that no one would ever make a clumsier, more overdesigned OS theme. Microsoft seems to be doing their absolute best to prove me wrong with every single release, reaching new heights of gangly ugliness with first "luna", then "avalon"...
Is XAML going to be available in the Longhorn beta?
XML UI Browser/Platform
Although I am looking forward to trying out the system myself when possible, I am afraid that it will not be enough to induce me to switch until I buy a new PC altogether.
Microsoft more or less peaked with Windows 2000, both functionality-wise and UI-wise. Even when I use WindowsXP, I find myself reverting the UI to the original Windows 2000 theme before being able to do any work.
The one big issue with all Windows operating systems after Windows 2000 is the problem with installation restrictions that prevent me from reinstalling the OS easily when I seem to have trouble. Not that Windows XP needs to be reinstalled very often, but I'd at least like the ability to do so without having to call up the Microsoft helpdesk. I am afraid that Longhorn will have the same issue, and that single issue will keep me from appreciating the operating system's other good features.
Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
For a second, I read "Longhorn Preview Infected in 12 Minutes".
Badass Resumes
And in spite of announced planned enhancements such as monitoring of outbound data, ... protection against malware, a new type of restricted user account, and a secure startup scheme to ensure that a PC hasn't been tampered with, Longhorn so far has the same minimal security toolbox as Windows XP with Service Pack 2.
Though security remains an unresolved issue, build 5048 brings Longhorn's graphical user interface into sharper focus.
Soooooo, little development with respect to security, but more colourful icons. Super.
Loose spelling, poor grammar, and lots of trolling. Oh, itraor, if only you had linked to your own in-depth analysis on your blog, you would have had the Slashdot Superfecta.
Better luck next time.
This comment was formatted for readability, but I forgot the line break tags
Yes, once again its another dupe - why is everyone still so surprised that this happens? The 'editors' barely pay lip service to their title and I doubt very much that they read the comments either. At face value there is no real passion from the creators of the site - its just the same old shit day after day.
To explain further, Slashdot exists for one purpose: to make money for parent company OSDN. There is nothing wrong with that in itself but don't expect a high quality site the way its currently run. The Slashdot business model (if you can call it that) seems to be to provoke reaction from the loyal crowd of slashbots that frequent the site. Inflammatory / trollish stories (e.g here) and dupes cause the page hits (and therefore ad revenue) to go through the roof.
As a result, most of the comments I see on the stories are neither insightful, interesting or informative. There seems to be no real balanced discussion - something I feel is a product of the moderation system which rewards those who conform to the slashbot mindset and censors everything else. This democratic method of editing the comments is terrible - especially where technical issues are concerned, as a lot of nonsense is modded up by people who don't know otherwise.
You are probably wondering why I read Slashdot. Partly morbid curiosity and partly to laugh at both the flame wars which invevitably break out and the well crafted trolls.
To conclude, Slashdot is neither really "News for Nerds" nor is it "Stuff that matters". If you want the former, go to somewhere like arstechnica] or kuroshin and if you want actual stuff that matters: Infoshop
Not that I think microsoft is the cat's meow or anything, but I'm getting tired of thinly veiled attacks in the tech media lately.
Articles like 'I tried to install windows LOL it sux0rs', 'longhorn delayed/missing features... whats up MS', and 'MS bought another company today and does what that fag mcnealy and ellison would kill to do: bent us over' all need to be marked: '-5 karma whore'
More cycle-stealing graphical chrome - that was certainly on the very top of my list of features. Far more important than security or availability (be able to add / update software w/o rebooting). Definitely worth the cost of upgrading and buying more RAM / bigger CPU, etc.
[Insert pithy quote here]
Most users systems will not be able to handle it and if any corporation deploys this(probably those still on Win 95 or Win 3.1), it will be sure to turn off the all these themes and such. So, the only users that will see and probably use them are the only that don't know translucent from non-translucent anyway.
Yes, I am sure some will buy it for the eye candy, but I am not sure if there are that many people that will just jump up and upgrade, especially with the DRM and all the other junk that will be installed by default.
Instead of actually improving things Microsoft latest OS will be a regurgitation of the same tired crap. Prettier interface, Wizards instead of fixing the underlying usibility issues, And loads of PR telling the masses that this is "The Best Windows Ever" No Thanks Microsoft
I agree with the parent. There seems to be no real cohesion to the new theme. Everything just seems to be bundled on top of each other. If these were the first Longhorn screenshots out, that'd be fine.. but we've been seeing the same for a year now.
In the screenshots it appears there's no difference made between menus and toolbars anymore.. the menus just kinda blur into them. Icons are different sizes. Different sized toolbars just smudge into each other and look messy. There seems to be no thought put into it.
Microsoft never ceases to amaze me. The company has billions of dollars (and they don't get it by writing checks I know) but they supposedly have some of the "best minds" out there.. and yet their products and interfaces are so scrappy? I know being Microsoft isn't easy.. they've got to be compatible, they've got lots of products to integrate.. lots of hardware to support.. but heck, can't they at least get decent interface design? It's not like it's a billion dollar job. Even people working for nothing, like the xfce people, do a better job.
hasn't this been a back-and-forth thing. how long did it take apple to get real multithreading? how long did it take MS to get more than 13 character filenames?
please save us from the fanboyisms.
I can't wait for Windows OS X......
Surely "prettier" is a subjective term. I took one look at the screen shots and blurted out "...what the fuck!"
I guess I just have vastly different aesthetic tastes than the Windows UI designers. Sucks to be me.
Haha! Get it? "Windows" with a "transluscent" UI?
And just when I thought Windows usage couldn't get any murkier, too...
Many Bothans died to bring you this sig.
I'd like to be the first to say that I have always found Windows to be a fine product for all my home needs.
I'll I'm looking for from a home-OS is for it to be easily compatible with my usual web/mail and games software. Windows has never let me down on that score.
I'm sure there are plenty of MS horror stories, but personally I have yet to experience them.
Unfortunately, I am not Wil Wheaton
I guess there are still a good number of people out there who are of the 'MS is always teh winnah!' mindset who will latch on to anything that gets announced by Redmond.
I like to call them the France Userbase. They see which way the wind is blowing and feel they might as well hurry up and surrender to what they think is the inevitable. In this case whatever MS product is supposedly on its way.
They love to point to IE, and the usual bogus belief that MS has '50 billion in cash', as their universal example of how MS products always come out on top and how we all better just get used to liking them.
For some reason the myriad other marketplace flops for MS like the xbox,bob,and the various other cellphone/settopbox stuff seem to be ignored.
I feel sick already. I thought the design of XP was nauseating enough with it's jarring, primary colour scheme. Now we've got the buttons jiggling up and down as you try to click on them. Still, it's nice to know they've got their priorities right. Making your UI look like something off Star Trek TNG is more important than boring old mundane things like improving security.
That is a good point. There is a reason that in the "paper office", stuff is not printed on translucent or transparent paper unless there is some specific reason. I've seen these menus, and they are much less readable. It is like the problem with "Aqua", with its unreadable very-low-contrast buttons. Is this a case of Microsoft copying the "look" without the "feel" with less-than-optimal results?
Where were you when the voynix came?
Personally, given my experiences with linux so far, if it were up to me I'd concentrate more on building a GUI where you can change the monitor resolution to the resolution you want when you want it on arbitrary systems, without having to ever edit a file named "XF86Config".
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I'll say.
Who knows, Longhorn may even contain all the features of Cairo, which was announced in 1991. Of course, it's unlikely that WinFS will be finished, so we may still have to wait.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Major point: Please can that excellent windows icon with the bell and whistle casually draped over it be the new 'Microsoft' icon on
Minor point: I could have sworn Windows had transparent and non-rectangular windows at least as far back as win2000, which is before OSX -- hey! Who are you guys, and why am I being handcuffed? And what do you mean, 'ideologically incorrect speech'? There's not even any such crime! Put me down! Put me doowwwwnnn...
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Their interfaces are inferior, as is the rest of the OS. They try to hide all of the functionality under thick shiny layers of translucent paint and pretty eye candy, even though there are fewer apps with less functionality for the Mac. Ridiculous.
Ok, so it looks nice. What they don't tell you is that if you want all the fancy translucency, 3D-accelerated-whatevertheheck, you're going to need a video card with at least 256MB and pixel shader 2.0. Otherwise you've got to live with the toned down versions of the UI.
translucency in the UI has existed since windows 2000! I dislike microsoft as much as the next guy, but its completely false to say that they are just catching up with apple when transluceny has existed for years in windows.
please see this article for more information.
The exact same build we've been able to read about on Slashdot a few months back.
Beats me why they suddenly reviewed it super late out of the blue, because it's not really like Slashdot is posting a really old news article either here.
And here I was thinking they were having an early beta 1 review, whose release is due this month.
Reviewing alpha quality software should tell a lot of IT people here about how useful a review like this is. Beta 1 and 2 should be far more interesting in seeing where Longhorn is heading.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
wtf... alpha blending has been around natively in windows since W2K. It wasn't used but it was there and many mods allowed context menu to set windows transparency.
o x-composite is still slow like hell...
o e17 will us software blending...
*sigh*
\u262D = \u5350
Ooohhh - translucent UI! Does it have the little throbber icon at startup too? I really hope they use a horizontal texture in the toolbars as well, and maybe some really cool sounds when I click on stuff - I've been waiting for MS to incorporate "You've Got Mail!" into their OS for years! I'm sure they will have to patch the Translucent UI stuff for years though to make it secure. Early adopters, beware!
Sometime next year, a pair of dupes titled "IT: Longhorn Infected in 2 Minutes."
To his credit, CmdrTaco really has mastered the art of unintentional, future ironic article placement on the front page.
Good to see that Apple seems to finally be gaining some marketshare, and that Microsoft is resting on its laurels...
If you use the nVidia software (nView i think) it can change your desktop to enable this feature. However, I leave it turned off because it's a waste of processing power.
I would hope this will be a setting that I can turn off.
Microsoft, as part of its goal of cutting down Slashdot dupes, has decided to ship Longhorn pre-infected. Don't worry about it.
Where were you when the voynix came?
... besides speedier search and better eye candies? If I still continue to file my documents according to my folders and sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, I only search once in a blue moon. What does XP SP2 not have that I needed badly in Longhorn?
And does the eye candies slow the machine down? Or maybe not since Intel and AMD would have spanking new processors by release time (end 2006 or 2007?) and maybe 1GB RAM as minimum for satisfactory performance.
Honestly, now with 512 RAM on a brand new notebook (Pentium M) just bought a month ago running XP SP2, I don't get the snappy feel of the menus. Don't tell me I need to fine-tune it for "max performance" and go back to classic win9x menus.
Now it only takes 6 minutes to be infected. It's a 50% improvement!
I MUST upgrade!Of course you'll be disabling those buttons to reduce load on the CPU so that it can be used for proper apps.
I wonder if OS 10.5 will arrive before Longhorn? Steve Jobs said that the company plans to release Leopard in late 2006 or early 2007.
Perhaps 2007 will see a 3-"L" competition on x86 -- Longhorn, Leopard, & Linux.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
I get translucent reminders and stuff in XP already. Am I missing something?
If they're truly copying Apple, it will be offloaded to the GPU. Chances are though it's a cheap microsoft replica, and you are correct it will gobble up CPU, but hey, isn't that exactly what new versions of Windows are for?
*ducks*
Q: Is Longhorn just vapor and eye-candy with no useful content?
A: Nobody knows, but that 'review' sure fits that description pretty darn well, as reviews of a six-month-old alpha build that focus almost entirely on the way it looks go.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Has been available in windows since 2000 (perhaps earlier, I don't know). It's just that a lot of windows developers don't take "advantage" of it. It also consumes a lot of cpu to us the transparency in "neat" ways.
FFS they better make it turnoffable it's getting quite difficult to keep my copy of XP from spontaneously deciding to do funky stuff without my permission. i just want to use the bloody thing, if i want flishy flashy pretty 3d zoomey eye candy computing then i'd take lsd first
If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
Sorry, but Apple has the better design sense. Microsoft can't design their way out of a paper bag. After all, their OS is targetted at businesses and the masses. Therefore, according to Marxism, their OS is not art, but craft. Mac OS is targetted at the bourgeoisie. Linux and BSD are the only true OSes of the people!!!!
What ads?
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I would like to see some version of the virtual folders like those in Evolution in the GNOME and/or KDE desktops. It looks like that may be one handy feature coming up in Longhorn. If we start work now maybe we can beat the Longhorn release date :).
I realize that if I want all my pictures in one folder I could just put them in one folder instead of scattering them all over the machine, but for me it would be nice to have the virtual folders show files from ALL of my machines at once.
So congratulations Microsoft, I have found a feature that I would like. if I still used Windows. I wouldn't upgrade to get it mind you, but I would at least know there was something I couldn't do on XP that I could on Longhorn.
Insert pithy comment here.
You know, if this happened, they might actaully turn a profit! See this alternate-reality business page to find out what this would be like. Imagine if Apple made a device called an "ipod" and made money on it. Pretty far fetched, huh? As for me, I'm sticking to 8-tracks. This "ipod" idea is pure scifi.
'Microsoft likes to make profits. Apple only recently started following that business model.'
Yes, Apple has never turned a profit. This is why they are hardly hanging in there, and have been pretty much wiped out in the computer arena by Exidy, Commodore, and Atari.
Where were you when the voynix came?
Ok so I read the review, and we can obviously expect a lot of bells and whistles as well as a fair amount of eye candy. It may or may not be good, but it reminds me of cellular phones (mobile phones). All I want is a stable phone that I can use to make calls. But with all the crap they've put into phones recently, that's actually hard to find. And I feel the same way about windows. All I want is a stable OS that I can use to run my applications in.
(And before someone jumps the gun - I use *nix at home, but I'm forced to use Windows at work)
Why bother with a translucent GUI when you can have transparent ones today?
It's really good that you're happy with Windows at home.
And many of the people who have Windows at home and are spam zombies are also fairly happy with Windows. Until it becomes too laggy.
The average Windows user would not care how many viruses/trojans/worms were on his computer as long as it seemed to be performing okay for what he used it for.
Meanwhile, there are bot nets out there with 10,000+ compromised Windows machines on them.
The issue isn't what you are happy with. The issue is whether you are being used as an attack vector by someone else. And the statistics show that those boxes are home Windows users (99%+).
Does this mean we will get a translucent "Screen of Death" superimposed over the crashed OS screen, instead of the solid-blue one? Just one step toward the "Invisible Screen of Death".
Where were you when the voynix came?
After all the hype I have heard, everyday at work, about how Longhorn was going to be the Windows OS that will be unrivaled by any other OS and how it will be the biggest, the best, the fastest. The only positives to come out of the review is, "I no longer have to type in .doc at the search line and set the parameter to all drives!" and "look at how innovative Microsoft is!! You can see through the window!!!"
It is a sad day when the consumers will let them get away with something as trite as this attempt to make money. It looks like Longhorn could have easily have been an addin pack for XP. Oh well, Go capitalists!
so one day I grabbed a windows XP CD and wrote windows LH on it and gave it to my friend after showing him all the online pictures. the real look and feel of XP but with a different certification. "Hey we changed the file system, let's put out SCREENSHOTS OF THE SAME STUFF WE'VE HAD FOR 5 YEARS, THAT'LL BE ORIGINAL RIGHT, RIGHT? THEY CAN TOTALLY SEE HOW EFFICIENT IT IS BY LOOKING AT THE START BAR BEING EXACTLY THE SAME" jeeze, they all keep thinking 2d. Apple, MSFT, even open source just goes in the same direction, try and make a super pretty UI and pump as much meta data into a file until you need to buy another 1.6 terabyte spool of drives to waste your life upon. think i might buy it
...that this is going to be a disatster like ME or 2000 was, with FS being mention to predominatly in the article.
Among the few noted features is that Windows now offers transluscent UI, finally catching up with Apple. "
Well... it wasn't documented but the GUI being transluscent in Windows is nothing new. I distinctly remember
a) reading about how to turn it on via a registry entry back in around 1998 (it was evidently around before then because that's when I "discovered" it
2) actually using said registry entry to turn transluscency on in the GUI
D) writing programs that made use of said transluscency in the GUI
So... it's finally documented and a "standard feature" of the GUI.
It's been said before: Pretty soon it will be illegal to own a general purpose computer.
...But I digress. TREMBLE PUNY HUMANS!ONE DAY MY SPECIES WILL DESTROY YOU ALL!
Hard to tell from the article's screenshots if the anti-aliasing was any good. Looking at some other screenshots it looks as though the answer is no. The anti-aliasing still looks like crap - inconsistant with obvious jaggies. It looks like windows fans will buy anything MS tells them to buy.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
>Windows now offers translucent UI, finally catching >up with Apple
Translucent UI? Surely that is catching *Down* with Apple?
will Longhorn support transparent screens?
o ol/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/transparentscreens/p
What you need to keep in mind is that there is generally two types of product buisness:
1. Innovation and the construction of new product ideas and enhacements
2. Reconstructing and attempting to put old ideas to new uses or brining old ideas together to form a singular idea.
Microsoft is very good at the second, and is a very valid and nessessary buisness tactic. While they almost always take ideas from others (ideas that are tested to be enjoyed by other people), they are combining all those features into a singular OS. This would be similar to Microsoft including a "google search" like feature in Windows along with a UI flexability similar to Gnome/KDE. Granted, OSX and Gnome/KDE did it first, but microsoft worked on combining both ideas into a singular idea.
I'm just waiting for Microsoft to continue their process and eventually create one hell of a commandline with flexible/powerful commands beyond the current MS-DOS version, based off of GNU/Linux
Among the few noted features is that Windows now offers translucent UI, finally catching up with Apple.
Yeah, since every one knows that the primary advantage that Mac OS X has over MS Windows is that the frickin' UI is translucent. As soon as Microsoft gets that right, Apple's advantage will be gone.
PS:
A) that was sarcasm
B) You can get translucency on Windows Xp. Check out winamp some time.
PPS: you mean "Among the few noted features is that Windows now offers a translucent UI" or "Among the few noted features is that Windows now offers translucent UI elements"
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
--
Free Credit Report Info
What does your Credit Report look like?
Just increase the DPI.
There is one thing I can't understand: why is Windows so ugly ? Why are non-Apple computers so ugly (yes, Sony's and IBM's PCs are ugly too) ? Why are MP3 players so ugly ?
Is it really that high-tech firms are full of dorks without any taste ? Is the difference with Apple the fact that Steve Jobs decides, and the guy actually has good taste ?
I am not joking, this is really something that puzzles me.
--Go Debian!
They will integrate Windows Longhorn in a new product called: "Photosoft". The previous success of Win2K Transparency and the current Longhorn Transluceny technology will help Adobe to improve their Layer Transparency and the Gausian Blur Plug-in. There are rumours that, by this buyout, Adobe plans going on the operating system market devastated by a bunch of ugly operating systems.
Let's see,
minimal new features? check.
lots of hype about features that won't be included? check.
said hyped features to be included later? check.
main upgrade is fancy windowing? check.
requires more cpu/ram? check.
One big advantage Longhorn has is the addition of DRM. I say advantage because this basically gives MS rights to control what software is on your computer. The advantage is theirs, not yours. What does DRM bring for the customer?
I don't really see a reason to upgrade. Of course, most of the people that adopt new operating systems don't actually buy the new operating system, they buy a computer and get what's forced upon them. Eventually everyone will upgrade when MS DRM model decides anything older than Longhorn is an unregistered piece of software. Just wait, it's coming.
Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
I kind of like the option where you can set up areas of the screen that the minimized thrown windows will bounce off of. It can be interesting when you control these surfaces with joysticks. You can see it here.
Where were you when the voynix came?
When I read shit like this I realize there's no hope for you 14 year olds. The world is fucked because some day you're going to take it over. Dear hot jesus, what have we gotten ourselves into?
I started hearing rumors of Blackcomb. Ideas that were daring and difficult. Rumors of amazing technical feats had me salivating, yet rumors of Orwellian levels of legal control and observation made me nervous. But back in 2001 the Microsoft OS train seemed unstoppable.
When news from Thurrott and Gartner (in 2001? 2002?) started leaking details of an interim "Longhorn" release that was aiming for 2003 things seemed very realistic and eminent. The heights Blackcomb attempted to scale seemed daunting and difficult. The fact that Microsoft realized this and decided to keep their OS gravy train moving at full speed with an easily reachable deadline seemed like a simple goal that benefited both the marketing and their tech development.
But in mid-2005, Longhorn's deadlines have come and gone over and over again. The feature set has been revealed and retracted numerous times. Huge discussions about minor changes have been made (Red screen of hardware death, removing "My" from user-owned data, etc). Spin tries to blame spectators for setting their expectations too high or reading too much into what was said. Attempts to knife a competitor or two in last minute technology revelations (an Adobe PDF killer in Metro, Firefox killing browser updates, etc) make these last minute updates seem more laughable and embarassing than like a scary, inevitable powerhouse that the Microsoft OS development team was.
But even though it sounds like nothing's gotten done, it would be silly to write off Longhorn. There have been impressive Longhorn demos. Some of the tech is being released ahead of schedule. And even though advances from Google, Apple, and Linux make it feel like Microsoft is just barely playing "catch-up" with what was their "big threat", it's probably much more likely that MS is just being coy with their features and setting low expectations right now. They will produce something to excite users and keep their big customers renewing their annual support aggreement.
I'm anxiously awaiting further info as to whether this looks more like a home run or a safe bunt made just to advance. We'll see.
How many sock puppets does Steve Jobs have on here I wonder...
Windows transparency!
Oh...you mean the little windows of the gui?....nevermind.
Article Summary:
- Windows is catch up to Apple's OS X.
- All the features that would sell an OS upgrade have been pulled to meet the release date.
- Same as XP with a kewler user interface.
- Only advantage over Apple's OS X is the hardware support.
My Sig indicates the end of the comment I posted.
yeah! transluency. That's really innovation! Nvidia drivers for win currently support it for any prog and some apps (like trillian and winamp) can be set with an opacity level on win2k/xp. But what's the use of transluency? You play with it, your computer slows down, things get hardly readable and you disable it. :)
It is unfortunate that most people base their conceptions of what Apple should do on what sounds right to them, not on reality or history.
proprietary hardware.... Apple is only begining to get their head out or their ass on that one
Actually, no.
Apple tried the open platforms thing in the 90s. Tried it quite honestly. (Ever hear of CHRP/PREP?) It was a business disaster. Apple's business model since at least the late 80s has been inextricably based on their hardware sales, and an alternate business model would be hard to find. Their volume isn't enough to support themselves on software the way Microsoft does, plus lacking monopoly power they can't just set arbitrary prices on their software and expect it to be paid. In an open platform environment, this business model doesn't work anymore.
This aside, there are no indications whatsoever that Apple is dropping "proprietary hardware" now. What they are doing is dropping the PowerPC chip and Open Firmware in favor of the Intel Pentium chip and BIOS. The latter two things are absolutely not more "proprietary" than the former two. Meanwhile the "proprietary" aspects of the Macintosh are fairly certain to perservere and Apple has been indicating OS X will continue to run only on Apple hardware. Apple hasn't said they're going to an open platform. Don't assume they will.
Organize the files in virtual folders whose 10 icons consume a full 1280x1024 desktop. You guys complain about everything.
</sarcasm>
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Oh, but surely computers will be faster by then? :-).
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
The greatest fear the Linux lovin' folks have right now is this: Microsoft releases an OS that just works and releases it as Open Source. Upon examination it is revealed that the OS is perfect and the driver support and legacy app support is also very good. And everyone will get to use it for free, Microsoft just charges for support. Not that this will ever happen, but I frightened you didn't I? Yeah I'm using GNU/Linux along with Xorg and everything a regular Open Source desktop contains these days. It just sucks compared to Windows XP, but it's free and I just love tweaking. Longhorn will probably be even better.
I use XP at work, but in classic UI mode because it's the only way to not want to gouge my eyes out. Seeing the Longhorn screenshots reminds me of something going on in the nicer neighborhood a few blocks from my house.
There's a really working class guy who made good running a car repair shop. They've got a great reputation and do solid work. So he's moved into an upscale neighborhood, bought an older house that needed some work, and he's fixed it up. But he didn't just relandscape and update the paint job, he is seriously pimping it out. It's all very nicely done and high quality, but it's done with no eye for aesthetics. If a three tier $4500 marble fountain with an 8 foot radius is good, then four of them in a front yard that's 50 feet wide is even better!
From what I hear the inside is pretty much the same concept.
That's what these screenshots make me think of.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
...their amazing breakthrough technology seems to consist mainly of general pixel-pushing.
"I'm looking for a home-OS is for it to be easily compatible with my usual web/mail and games software" Over the years I've found Win 3.x-Win95,98,Me-Win2000-XP to require "upgrades" for all my usual web/mail and games software, which makes it less "easily" compatible. I would like a product that continues to provide support for my applications without requiring me to download and/or pay for upgrades. This precludes Apple, which has been even worse in the longetivity of support for its software. (How long before they drop support for PPC software on my powerbook? I'm worried!)
MS has already provided them in beta and they will be fully working on current versions of xp, so what will be the advantage of longhorn? WInFS I dont really care about and XP does everything I need it to atm.
So what will this OS offer that XP doesnt?
(For the grammer and spelling obssesed Im dyslexic, but I do have a phd, so get over yourselves)
I'm sure you'll probably get modded flamebait, but at least you can spell 'ridiculous' (sooo much 'rediculous'! wtf?!). I salute you Sir!
Well X.org bought you real (as opposed to simulated) translucent windows and soft drop shadows as of 6.8. Getting it to run at a decent speed requires a decent graphics card and preferably an NVidia one as their drivers provide Render and Composite acceleration.
Not that I think that translucency in all windows is a good move - it's just visual clutter. Like fading in and fading out menus, it looks cool but it gets in the way. I disabled that feature in Windows 2000, it is disabled on my Windows XP laptop. Drop shadows on the other hand actually improve the visual cues allowing you to pick important windows and menus out of the mix on the screen and are worth the processor cost and so I have drop shadows on my Ubuntu AMD64 box where I have the GPU required to make it fast. On my other linux boxes (Mandriva desktop and FC3 laptop) I don't bother.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Firstly, "Overdesigned" may describe "Aqua" on OS X, but clumsy? You also seem to miss the fact that M$ is brilliant at getting the most money from its products, and cohesiveness in the OS doesn't help them do this. In fact, it helps if their software is as scattered and obfuscated as it can be without totally alienating "partner" hardware developers. Extending and protecting their position in the marketplace is important, which is why we will eventually see WinFS. That's what their best minds are working at, and they're succeeding.
Windows 2000 had transparency effects.
There are tons of third-party programs that take advantage of it (WinAMP, Trillian...), it's just that with Longhorn, MS will use it themselves.
Seems like you and me and every slashdotter reading this story has a issue with the UI. Ridiculous space-consumption excluded.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
If you want eye candy on windows, use stardock's stuff. (No, I don't work for them.) They have had their stuff out for several years.
Windowblinds allows you to skin your apps. FX allows you to do transparency and 3-D effects for min/max. And you can use their icon program to change all the icons.
It is a lot of fun, although I still use windows classic most of the time.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
really though - big swingaling. XP already has some translucent things. There's nothing you can get of significance in OSX, or XP that isn't in Linux (KDE, and others!). Really, I'm getting tired of you whippersnappers complaining about Linux not being beutiful out of the box. Quit complaining and go back to your abused lives as corporate OS users..
It DOES NOT take that much effort to get a pretty and feature rich Linux distro up and running.
Also, unlike Windows, there is no problem with crappy closed formats and crappy design paradigms..Unlike crappy OSX, there is no need to be shackled down to just one closed architecture - MAC(intel), formerly MAC(powerpc).
Linux is just all round superior if you get your thumb out of your ass and quit whining. Translucent windows are nothing new in Linux...
AND, nobody's forcing you to be an upgrade zealots either. Good'ol Read Hat 9 (pre Fedora) is stable and secure. Whatever distro of Linux you are using, it will be usable..
Right, that told'em. Now get back to work/sleep..
I dont care about transparent UI or Bump-mapping. Will it run my programs when I want to without crashing?
If I could, I'd still be using 2000. Win 2K was the best OS I've ever worked with.
That, and setting the UI back to 'classic' mode, so that stuff is where you remember.
But, hey, as long as the market mistakes 'tarting up the UI' for actual development, this is what we'll see.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Every few years, MS announces a revolutionary new OS. A complete rewrite. Everything you ever wanted in an OS- an more. Breakthroughs. Security. Ease of use. Your PC will be more helpful than a correctly working NS5 in _I, Robot_. It will bear your children. Etc.
And every time, before shipping, features slowly fall away, the release date slips, and eventually we get... a new GUI to learn and a new set of bugs and security holes. The GUI is usually about all they *can* talk about safely.
But the article discusses other things as well. Such as the new way a user can install drivers without being Administrator and opening up a zillion security holes. Now that's advanced. After all, it's only been possible in *nix for a couple of decades.
But hey, transparent windows!
You must think in Russian.
XP has that.
Build 5048 was 'released' at WinHEC so that the hardware manufacturers could begin writing drivers under LH's updated driver architecture. This build was not intended to showcase any particular feature of Longhorn, in fact many were removed from the build (including the new 3d interface). The purpose was to provide a shell platform where they could verify their drivers, that is all.
I wouldn't give creedence to any LH review until the upcoming Beta in late August.
1. In part, although Apple's Quartz is not networkable, while Avalon/Aero natively is. Avalon is architecturally very similar to Photon, the UI engine of QNX, except that it is vector-graphics driven. You could call it a hybrid between X and Quartz.
2. They haven't been pulled, they're being backported. Microsoft has decided to make a benevolent move by providing, for free, the majority of the WinFX API to Windows XP and Windows 2003. Avalon and Indigo will ship with Longhorn. WinFS, the API, may be delayed, but the metadata searching and virtual folders will ship with Longhorn.
3. Windows XP was nearly identical to Windows 2000 until beta 2, even in interface. The foundation for the new features are being laid, and this is typically not apparent to the end user. In these alpha builds the more important question is whether or not the new foundation breaks existing applications.
Aero isn't something to be taken lightly. It is a 100% departure from the traditional GDI graphics subsystem and brings complete hardware abstraction to the display device. On top of that, Avalon also brings the full networkable vector-graphics windowing system and widgetset. These have, effectively, been rewritten from scratch, tossing Win32 aside.
4. Personally I call that a disadvantage. Hardware and drivers remain the #1 culprit of system instability.
One word. "Cairo".
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
"crappy OSX update"...
Yeah, because all those OS X security updates revolve around Apple UI vulnerabilities.
Seriously, your statement:
"I see Linux, Unix, and Opensolaris as the future of the server market. Same for desktops, except X Opensolaris/polaris etc. for desktops."
Is just wonderful. Your prognostication concerning the server market is obviously the result of many hours spent in the corporate environment, where Windows server is loosing footing every day.
And your desktop views? Fantastic. I hope you are right, because if any UNIX does win over the corporate desktop, it'll be Apple's OS X.
Finally, I'm SO all down with patent anarchism! Maybe if we vote in Ralph Nader in 2008, he'll appoint Stallman as head of the patent office! That'll show'em!
"oohhh... I didn't know Schopenhauer was a philosopher!"
I hope you are right, because if any UNIX does win over the corporate desktop, it'll be Apple's OS X.
Come on now. OSX is as much Unix as Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker..(you have probably caught fire with rage now)
Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that OSX critical updates are related to the UI at all.
I think you got the wring flavo(u)r [insert retaliation or reasons for not bothering with retaliation here].
If I had a bat, school kids would learn to appreciate and manipulate/exploit the full (and only real necessary) capability of an OS - the Unix/Linux shells and the suite of tools that can be run with them. It starts with education. But bite back if you want...
...the X Resize and Rotate (and Reflect) Extension. Recent versions of GNOME, KDE, and Xfce all have nice GUIs front-ends to this which allow you to click and change your resolution on-the-fly. Research before ranting, please! ^_^
Basically Microsoft's strategy is to observe the industry, see what new innovations are going to be profitable, then duplicate them, market the hell out of them, and tie them into as many other MS products as they can.
Seems to work pretty well...
I hope that you've made a donation towards their running costs if you've blocked their ads. People running ad-blockers (pop-up blockers are fine) are going to turn the internet into the equivalent of PBS television. Umm. Except worse.
PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
We probably have to read those utterly boring "Longhorn Preview blaa" type of "news" for 2+ more years.
All they tell you is that there will (!!!) be a fancy looking UI.
C'mon man! Who cares?! A damn pile of "nice looking" icons? pfff...!
I am sick of those UI pictures!
As far as i can tell it sucks ass big time!
sorry for the trolling but enough is enough
Or like it was before the ad sales guys showed up. Umm. Except better.
And stop trolling, you webpimping pocket-pool-gamer.org.
...because there is a good chance that the upcoming beta releases will look completely different. And the final release will then look completely different than the betas.
For comparison, here are some links that illustrate the evolution of the Windows XP UI:
Whistler preview
Another Whistler preview
Yet another Whistler preview
Whistler beta 1
Beta 1, another build
XP Beta 2
XP RC1
Focus on the fluff. Ignore the substance.
Microsoft has yet to announce minimum Longhorn system requirements, but for PC buyers seeking insurance that a new system will run Longhorn, the company advises getting 512MB of RAM and a "modern" CPU--more than Windows XP needs.
Yet another hardware upgrade required. XP was supposed to run on a PII 300MHz with 128MB RAM. By extrapolation, you'll really need 1GB or 2GB of memory and a P4 3.2GHz just to run it comfortably.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
s/X/XFree86/
Here's a few of the things that I would want in the next version of windows:
--don't require users to run as admin. Go after sw companies that put out software such as games that require users to run as root.
--allow users to easily "su to root" for installs, reconfig, etc. Don't require a logoff/logon.
--use the 3d for something useful, like letting users run at 1280x1024 but have everything be sized as if it were 800x600. Try giving a person with bad eyesight an lcd and telling them they should run in 1280x1024. It has to be easy to change.
--never let the user lose control. I hate it when the interface hangs up and you can't do anything. This happens when printing, programs screw up, accessing some media, etc. Fix that.
--restore the uninstall information when doing a system restore. I might be wrong on this, as I've only used it on one system, but it seemed to restore uninstalled programs, but they couldn't be uninstalled again. BTW system restore is the main reason I bought xp for home. Improve that.
--a decent command shell. Hey, just port bash over, it'll save both of us some time.
--easy to use equivalent to ln -s
--easy way to schedule when the computer logs someone off automatically, and is locked from use for certain times of the day. This is for kicking the kids off the computer automatically, and preventing them from getting on in the middle of the night.
--a reasonable price.
People clearly want to read the article as your comment got modded up to +5. So why shouldn't the publisher benefit from that? If you dont like the ads tough. Dont read articles from this publisher. If enough people share your opinion the publisher might change it's policy and stop splattering ads around the thing. But that's not your decision to make.
People here rightfully get up in arms when companies take GPL software and distribute it in violation of the GPL why arent people pissed off that youre stealing this guys work and republishing it without permission?
--aiee
...until the inevitable Slashdot dupe appears.
Um, it wouldn't have caught up with Apple (as far as tranparency is concerned) until it's released...
It will eventually catch up with apple, as far as transparency is concerned, over a year from now.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
Let's not forget Linux! Xorg-6.8.x has been out for quite a while, now.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
Not exactly, the only feature that Apple made to run on GPU is Expose. Other rely on CPU and software implementation.
If you don't believe then just make a simple test. And please, before bashing remember that I only dispute the GPU usage (meaning that Apple does not use GPU for visual effects), and not how many users does that in reality (except me and some people who wanted to know if 3D is effective for FX tricks).
Test
Start terminal and then top.
Set dock to maximize on mouse over and start dragging your mouse over the dock. Your system is 100% taken over with window manager. Now to the real test. Open Photoshop with laaaarge picture. Start some filter. Time it. Now do it again, but this time drag mouse over dock. Filter can now take even 8x more time.
Same goes for menus, except that shadows are not so complex as dock. but diff was 5x.
All effects but expose and buffer copy when moving windows are software not hardware
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
Here's what M$ needs: A real business OS, and a real consumer OS. Media Center doesn't work at these prices, and XP Home/Prof. seem to have rubbed off on each other too much. Home should be really easy and colorful compared to Pro. or server. Like comparing Linux with Gnome to Solaris. Of course, we'll always be able to make both versions look like Windows 2000/95, etc. But the Business should be somber with few personalization options, and the Home should look like Linux's 1,000,000,001 customization features, none of them documented or accessible by the regular user account. For example, you should be able to su in Windows, shut down explorer, antivirus, internet access, etc. to squeeze more performace out of PC games. You should be able to access and administrator panel and activate a Mac OS X type search, or widgets, or change the windows bars to tabs, etc. It's time that the oligarchy of Dell, HP, Gateway/Emachines lightens up. They'll have to pay more for support, but Windows desperately needs some excitement for the consumer, outside of piracy, blogging and IM. None of those are exclusive to Windows, after all. They need to let M$ loosen up on the consumer side.
And this is bad? From the very little TV I'm exposed to, I ask, why in the world would we want the net to be like broadcast TV? If adblockers destroy businesses who run animated, flashing, "squeeze the content into 15% of the screen area" type losers, I say good riddance - adblock the bastards out of existence. Someone else with respect for the viewers will undoubtedly take over. There will always be outlets for information even in the absence of ad revenue.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
The operating system lets you create virtual lists based on these attributes so that, for example, you can see every photo on your system or all Microsoft Word files, regardless of where they are stored and without having to explicitly search for them.
I think this could be implemented in a couple hours, if that, with some shell scripting, symlinks, and tar. A "pretty" GUI to go along would take a few more hours. So, lets see, this feature accounts for one man-day of microsoft's time....
SIGSEGV caught, terminating
wait... not that kind of sig.
Sorry, wrong. All business models that require advertising to survive should die terrible writhing debts than deaths. If they do not produce content that is worth paying for in its exclusivity than they are out and out screwed; and some populations, namely anyone without a job (ie students) will likely get your content without paying for it. Just hope that when they hit the mortage years that they will still be into what you have to sell.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
...is a generic x86 box with a simple VMWare-like environment built right into the BIOS. You could then use this enviroment to run multiple OSes simultaneously. No need to double or triple boot. Just run all three at once and switch between them with a keyboard shortcut.
Free Hans!
So did PC World publish the half-life of this when it was connected to the Internet, apropos the previous story?
People running ad-blockers (pop-up blockers are fine)
Why are popup ads bad, but other ads fine? An ad is an ad, regardless of its degree of annoyingness. Are you suggesting that popup ads don't bring the site revenue?
On that note, I assume you don't go to the bathroom during commercials, since you would be taking advantage of the show without watching the advertising. Or change your radio station when the "50 minutes of music" set ends. Or skip pages in a magazine. Or...
News flash to all website maintainers: you're free to serve me anything you like, but you can't force me to view it.
Thing is, now he's ecstatic about Avalon (words like "cool" and "sexy" flow freely) for the exact reason he snubbed OSX. Go figure. I guess whatever "camp" you happen to be in also influences your sense of the aesthetic.
Sigs cause cancer.
I keep on wondering why the OS I was envisioning 10 years ago isnt here now. You know, integrated voice recognition, some basic but workable AI to assist in common repetative tasks, a little high quality speach synthesis as an alternate CHI...instead we have more eye-candy and security updates!! That seems to be all Ive seen from MS since...ooooh 1998....
I know that some of this stuff IS rocket-science (well computer science) and no-one was going to get there over-night but 10 years ago I certainly didnt think that I would have learned to have touch-type before decent voice recognition was integrated into the OS...
It really feels as if the true innovation in IT has stalled...however its much more likely that it has just been strangled to death by patents.
http://www.gozer.org/mozilla/ad_blocking/css/userC ontent.css
I don't use Firefox, I happen to prefer Safari, so I just use this style sheet (download it, save it) and it blocks > 80% of ads.
Eye candy is nice, but its not a reason to upgrade. The review was shallow, thus revealing little to no facts about the OS. Even though XP is much more stable than its predecessors there's no info on how stable it is/has become. There's no info on much of anything. I could extrapolate that there really will be nothing in the final release and hence no real reason to upgrade.
i remember one preview in Computerra magazine. :-)
Microsoft disallowed to publish screenshots, so the magazine's painter just redrawn the screens in specific magazine\s style.
'twas quite funny. like thouse articles from courts
catching up?
perhaps "continuing to play catch up" would have been a bit more reality-friendly.
they will NEVER catch up, because they can't come up with new ideas until someone else invents them.
just don't forget that it's not the fault of the Linux (Open Source / FSF) community that you can't do these things. Ever send a CV to IBM?
You don't need MS Word for that. In fact they discourage it!
If more companies led (as Sun and IBM do), (when it suits them :/ ) we would be less dependent on said standards.
essreenim (I am barred from making submissions as a result of the increasing frailty of the /. editors/moderators..I hope they get well soon)
What's wrong with that?
First, you're probably too young to remember the Internet before it was filled with ads. It was smaller, but there was more useful content compared to the noise. The Internet really has changed... more people, more information-- but it's damn near impossible to find anything these days.
Second, PBS puts out the best TV programming out there. Nova, Frontline, Jim Lehrer Newshour, Sesame Steet are all excellent programs, and PBS put out a ton of excellent documentaries which no commercial station would touch. Their American History documentaries are probably the best out there. And yes I donate.
The commercial educational stations (Discovery, HGTV) come in second-- but the ads are offensive. I mute all ads, and would block them if I had a good TV blocking device.
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
This build is incredibly old now. The interface of today doesn't even look remotely like it. I don't understand why PCWorld is previewing this now, especially a build intended for hardware developers. The majority of Longhorn's features weren't even merged in for this build.
I agree that Windows lags behind MacOS in many ways. But let's stop measuring this lag in superficial features like transluscent widgets. These things just don't fucking matter. They look cool, but they don't add shit to the usability of the system. When we compare OSs, let's compare basic functionality, not stupid gimmicks.
They need to stop focusing on UI and start focusing more on security, speed, and stability. Translucency? Please... no one cares.
Native translucency in Windows is supported since Windows2000 Beta 1 released in 1998 (it was Windows NT 5.0 back then)... go figure.
Slashdot - free anti-Microsoft propaganda 24/7
Wrong, theres nothing to stop you doing per-pixel alpha-blending with the windows API. Here are two examples (c++ & c#):
http://www.codeproject.com/gdi/pxalphablend.asp
http://www.codeproject.com/cs/media/perpxalpha_sha rp.asp
Given that the pre-requisite APIs (in the case of the C++ code) were available years before the release of OSX (2001) or any Linux-GUI system, then its clear that per-pixel alpha-blending was possible first with Windows GUI.
-Red
Guns don't kill people, "with glowing hearts" kills people.
As could be seen from the preview somethings aren't going to change. For instance having to be an Administrator to actually do anything. http://pcworld.com/news/graphics/121435-2308p020-2 b.jpg
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
MS Win2K as well as XP have had per-pixel, alpha-blended translucency capabilities from the get go. To the desktop (layered window and UpdateLayeredWindow api), to a window (AlphaBlend api), whatever.
And they've been supporting 32bpp (24rgb, 8alpha) since Win95 so it was possible way back then to alpha-blend manually, just not to the desktop (without some workarounds, anyway).
What's new in Longhorn is the use of the 3D graphics card's capabilities to do the rendering.
It's not like anyone cared. Windows 2000 had transparency with a little app called Glass2k. No one used it for more than half an hour.
They don't need to run IE in "low rights" mode, they need to change the design of the HTML control and IE so they display pages in "no rights" mode all the time, unless the application they're embedded in explicitly extends the capabilities. That is, the HTML control by itself should have no mechanism for running ActiveX or VBscript or any "local access" features in JScript. All these would need to be added by the app (such as Windows Update), and there would be NO TIME that the IE shell would add these capabilities, no matter what "zone" it's in.
Give us a strong sandbox in the browser, and you won't need to run the browser in a weak one.
I doubt you could even call them "designers."
From the looks of the garbage they spit out, I question whether or not they have a creative director to oversee interactive design, or some people that actually went to design school and studied visual communication.
It looks like there interface designs are pushed by bad HCI buffs.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
wow, some of you people are really not that bright.
See it works like this, the preview isn't even of beta ONE yet.
Beta TWO will be feature complete and you will know of every feature by then, but we are not there yet.
They are not even reviewing BETA one yet, just some old alpha still.
95 percent of the real final features are not even in the product yet.
Call me next year when a Final version is previewed and then we can talk. Until then don't judge this OS and STFU.
Thanks.
How is this modded as insightful? I had a working Longhorn DVD from 18 months ago. Just because a product isn't finished doesn't make it vaporware.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
> The company has billions of dollars (and they don't get
> it by writing checks I know) but they supposedly have
> some of the "best minds" out there.. and yet their
> products and interfaces are so scrappy?
I work for a large company, and was fortunate enough to work on a high risk project, one whose failure would have meant financial ruin for the company. Knowing this, they spent lots of money (both in salary and in opportunity costs) to get their "best minds" on the project. This was nearly a disaster for several reasons that I observed:
(1) "Best minds" folks want to be architects, not brick layers; big projects require lots of brick layers. Someone has to write the code and test it. Not everyone can draw diagrams and make UML diagrams if you want to have an actual product.
(2) "Best minds" folks tend towards a grand vision and tend to use phrases like "reusable framework", "integrated system", and "from the ground up"; none of these phrases are useful to turning out a product that works, although they can be excellent at chewing up meetings and budgets.
(3) "Best minds" folks want to build a Maserati GranSport or Panoz Esperante, even when asked to build a Chevy Cavalier, and many times they fail because they continue to try and build their GranSport even after the Chevy parts are delivered.
I've never worked at Microsoft, but if I had to guess, I'd say that they likely suffer from the same problems that we did. Much to my great relief, the "best minds" I worked with decided to commit themselves to the product, check their egos at the door, and get work done, even if that meant getting out of the architect's office and being a brick layer. Evidence of this abounds in that Microsoft wows the world with plans/concepts like WinFS; they have incredible trouble delivering on those concepts. I imagine part of that is that they have a few too many "best minds" who know they are and don't want to do any of the hard work.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, its too dark to read.
Are we still not going to get user-accounts that are workable?
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
Because in the beginning PCs were made by engineers, and they made boxes to hold stuff. They didn't make boxes for your living room, because computers were supposed to go in basements and under monitors and under desks. Jobs' first Apple was no design marvel, it was a wooden box with lines of silicon inside.
Now Apple makes beautiful machines. So does Ferrari. Neither will find a general audience.
What I can't really answer is why like 90% of cell phones seem to be gray flip phones. Is it really that important not to offend? Is colored plastic that much more expensive? Are the conformity-loving Asian manufacturers who make 90% of the phones to blame? Do they not want to irritate the accessory makers who sell color cases?
a technology called Indigo that enables programs on different computers or devices to communicate;
Isn't this what we used to call a "serial port"?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Parent is unable to understand humor or tell the difference between a specific argument, and a broad argument. 'Apple has never turned a profit' was never agrued by grandparent.
Not being a codewarrior, I have to ask..
Is this being accelerated by the GPU, or is it being done by the CPU?
That's the difference, if I'm reading things right (which I may not be).
It seems that the developers want to push their hardware to the max, putting in a bunch of useless frills. Who the **** needs a button that spins? Whoop-dee-doo! When all these little nice looking things run at the same time, you have a very slow system, my friend. It is not just microsoft, and although I would like to blame them for all my troubles, KDE can seem a bit bloated at times. My point here is: having 0 lag and and OK looking GUI is much better than having a very laggy, but very pretty GUI. You can actually be PRODUCTIVE with the former.
Looks like 2K is going to stay on my box for a couple more years.
In OS X, you can have multiple semi-transparent windows overlaping a windows with video playing at full framerate (depending on the codec) even on a slow 867Mhz G4 laptop like I have at home.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
How is it 2005 and MS's icons still suck big donkeys?! Jeezus fu*k!
They took a Unix, created a pretty GUI for it, and that's about it. They are a petty little company full of litigious bastards who would screw the consumer far far more if they got the chance than Microsoft ever has.
You know, being serious for a sec, I really think MS ought to implement this. With their OS being so ubiquitous, it certainly doesn't help the marketing department to see gigantic billboards, video walls, and huge LCD screens with the BSOD on them all the time. They should put in a feature to just dump the memory to a file and go black.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
...and then The Net once again will be ruled by Übergeeks...
Noone here has anything against that scenario... and those who has does not belong here...
Like I'm going to buy anything advertised in obnoxious Internet ads.
These sites have not lost money they would otherwise have acquired from me.
I don't sit through ad breaks on TV and watch them all either. Hah! (Besides, the BBC doesn't have ad breaks during programmes - and the other channels I watch are on a subscription satellite package - I don't see why I should have to put up with ads *as well*!!! Rupert Murdoch profiteering is all that's about).
As regards PBS - I haven't seen the US channel - but surely in a country the size of that place everyone could throw in a dollar or two tax a year and get quality programming? Or is that too Communist?
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
I really WANT to use linux as a desktop OS. I've wanted it since Redhat 5.2 or so. Every now and then I give it another go. So much of it just seem silly to me though... like installing an app.
/Programs get linked in /System (in order words, to make the files from the programs available for the system).
/Programs, and it attempts to prepare the sources for compilation.
/Programs/SuperFoo/Settings, /Programs/SuperFoo/1.0, /Programs/SuperFoo/1.0/bin and so on.
There is a thread here on Slashdot right now about the future of Linux. It links to Gobolinux. Here is what it says. Yea this is user-friendly.
----------------
Installing programs from source
If you are used to compiling programs in Linux, you are aware that it is mostly a three-part process: prepare the sources (configure), compile them (make), and install the files generated by the compilation (make install). The process is basically the same in GoboLinux. However, it requires additional setup in the first step, in order to prepare the sources to compile targeting the GoboLinux directories, and additional actions in the third step, so that files installed in
GoboLinux fetures a series of scripts that automate this process. They are:
* PrepareProgram
* SymlinkProgram
* CompileProgram
PrepareProgram and SymlinkProgram are wrappers to the first and third step of compilation as explained above (the second step being simply running 'make'). CompileProgram is a higher-level wrapper script, that wraps the process as a whole: well-behaved autoconf-based programs can be compiled with a single CompileProgram command.
Setting up the sources: PrepareProgram
The PrepareProgram script does two things. It creates a directory hierarchy for the program under
The syntax for the PrepareProgram is:
PrepareProgram [ -- ]
Passing a program name and version number is mandatory. These names are the ones used in the directories under programs. For example,
PrepareProgram SuperFoo 1.0
creates the directories
The second task performed by PrepareProgram is to prepare the sources. Since there isn't a standardized format for distribution of source-code tarballs in the free software world, there is no way to implement completely automated preparation. Fortunately, the popularization of the GNU AutoTools brings us closer to such a standard.
PrepareProgram, in this second step, will detect availability of preparation tools and perform one of the following:
1. If the program includes a 'configure' script generated by GNU autoconf, PrepareProgram will run it, passing the necessary options (mainly --prefix, --sysconfdir) as well as any additional options requested by the user in the command line (as ).
2. Some authors develop their own 'configure' scripts, but due to the popularity of GNU autoconf, design a command line interface similar to that used by this program. PrepareProgram tries to detect if a non-autoconf 'configure' script accepts at least the --prefix option, and use it.
3. If unfortunately the program does not feature a standard preparation script such as 'configure', the PrepareProgram will, as a last resort, scan for hardcoded paths in the Makefiles and attempt to modify them. Given that this automated process can be highly error-prone, PrepareProgram avoids being "automagical" and asks for the user's assistance: it asks the user for permission before attempting modifications, it saves backup copies of all Makefiles, and displays a summary of changes to the user. (Note: If the user is sure the modifications will be correct, all interaction can be suppressed passing the --batch option to PrepareProgram.)
In short, PrepareProgram can be considered a wrapper to 'configure'. Instead of running, for example,
~/superfoo-1.0] configure --with-shared=yes
you'll run
~/
I am Jack's HTTP Server
Windows now offers translucent UI, finally catching up with Apple. Who cares who has more eye candy. twm is just as efficient as any other UI, it's faster, and it's more customizable. I dislike eye candy being mistaken for a mandatory feature. I like to shove that stupid dock somewhere dark, right next to where I'd like to shove the start button. Remember, pretty does not equal better UI. I still haven't seen anything that mac has done that is any better than MS. Unless you're talking about idiot-proofing stuff, because they're good at that.
They got rid of my favourite feature, the scrollbar in the start menu. What the hell!
But I must admit, the 320x240 icons and the 2-inch status bars on each window... magnific!
Are they hiring artists or people who barely use PC's to design GUI? These guys clearly don't have systems with 100+ files and folders, because if they had, they wouldn't use those bloody big icons for it. Where's the common sense?
Luminocity Howto
Honestly the only thing I got out of Luminocity is disappointment- its just a toy and I wanted a replacement for Metacity. It just a tech demo....I wish I wouldn't have seen it because now I believe it will take years (or 3-4 releases) to get Gnome to do that. Its not usable as a Window Manager...its just to show Window's fans and say "look what Linux can do."
As far as eye candy in the near future goes, the best thing we have in Linux is xcompmgr. I bought a cheap Nvidia card just to try it out...and it is awesome (well..the fading is..drop shadows are overrated to me). For those that complain that xcompmgr is slow..well you don't have an Nvidia card do you? This program was finally the straw that broke my back and convinced me to toss my ATI card. The $30 bucks spent on a 5200 fx was well worth it....
To bad xcompmgr is only a little more stable that Windows ME or I would use it full time. So personally I care less about Luminocity in the Universe and more about a new Xorg with a more stable (PLEASE!!!) xcompmgr....
Open Source Sushi
Entropy sure ain't what it used to be.
The interesting part (of the new GUI framework, anyway) is the under-the-hood changes that enable the transparency. Ever notice how on OS X you never get redraw flickering? Even if a program is stuck to the point where the interface is frozen and you get the spinning beach ball, every window still redraws itself properly. That's because windows now draw into a backing store and are blitted to the screen by the OS (or with any reasonably-modern video card, slapped on an OpenGL polygon) rather than drawing directly to the screen where their display can be wiped by any window being moved over it.
This gets rid of redraw issues entirely and allows neat compositing effects. Translucency support is only a side effect of this.
why would I bother buying Longhorn?
...
no killer app so far as I can see.
unless I'm missing something
[caveat - I own MSFT shares]
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
--I feel so dirty.
By the way, why are pop-up blockers ok but ad-blockers are not? Pop-up ads are more effective than normal ones (or so I've heard), doesn't that mean blocking them ruins the internet even more?
"WinFS was intended to create a systemwide data-indexing system accessible to Windows and to various applications"
Not being I hacker, I can't be sure, but it seems to me that something like this would be the first place to look for a way to really hose up someone's machine.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Translucent UI has been part of windows since Win2K. See Glass2K.
even the blurb was a troll... "finally catching up with apple"
/.
good old
(btw, i havn't read the other comments yet, sorry if redundant)
Personally, I think Microsoft is sand bagging with this release and with Beta 1. The UI layer is widely known as not being the final version. The next generation media player and IE are not included. These are basically technical releases for driver writers and so developers can test the underpinnings. No one would take more joy than for Longhorn to be widely considered a bad product than I. Microsoft and their unethical and shortsighted ways needs to go. But I don't think it's going to happen. I think Windows will finally move from "good enough" to "excellent." The impact to Linux will be small, but it will be there. But Linux will catch-up. Apple will feel the pain too. How much is a mystery. If Apple keeps innovating, no problem. But an excellent release of Windows could do in OS X. (Full disclosure: I am an Apple person, so the last sentence is not flame-bait, but rather raw personally fear.) Anyway, Microsoft is going to make history with Longhorn. Mark my words.
Because a pop-up ad forces you to pay attention to it. A normal ad, even though it might flash and show funny pictures, requires nothing from you. You don't have to look at it or click on it, or close it. God forbid, you might even see something interesting in it.
It's the arrogance of people who block every single advert that annoys me. You feel as though it's your right to have everything on the internet for free, yet I bet you've never joined any subscriber-only site. I don't doubt that you use pirated software, either.
After all, what's the difference between a website owner and a software developer when it comes to putting food on the table, part time or otherwise?
*Watches karma fall through the floor*
PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
Gnome, Windows, and OS X are fairly similar in their core graphics capabilities: antialiased drawing, translucency, and scalable fonts. So, there is little difference between them in that regard. Furthermore, none of them invented those features--they have been around longer than any of them.
If there is a difference, it's that Gnome and Avalon offer GUI declarations based on XML and that those are widely used. Apple's object serialization approach is cumbersome and outdated in comparison.
I've recently been doing some things with some older computers, ones with Windows 98 on them... and at one of the worksites I work at a number of the PCs have NT on them.
There is a LOT of difference in functionality between them and an XP box (or, for the most part a 2000 box). Not just the look and feel, but usability, ease of just plugging in devices and having them work, photo browsing in the interface, ease of networking etc. etc.
There are differences, big ones as they move up the OS tree, stop being so flippant.
"Surely 'prettier' is a subjective term"
Indeed. If GUI's had first come out with hard-to-read transparent windows, everyone would think it a great advance when a later version made them a more legible opaque.
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
So an OS that might release in 3 years is finally caught up to Apple's of 2004? And has no gains in productivity? Why even bother writing about this New Microsoft Operating System?
Hahaha! Sorry..
So a 'low rights' user can install drivers (read: extend the kernel), but will still not be able to install applications in user space, like unix has been able to for, oh, a couple of decades?
Yeah, most people will continue to run as Admin.
"Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
Didn't you see the part in the article where Longhorn would likley require many people to buy new computers? Offloading work to the GPU also makes newer video cards that much more important.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Amazon list is updated hourly and I have yet to see powerbooks fall from the top of the list (and many slots below) anytime I've checked it.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Did you notice that the file folders in Longhorn are standing up like books, with the contents coming out? Maybe all the new features fell into a pile on the floor.
It seems that you can sort of make out what is behind the top window, but it's all blurry and unreadable.
OS X goes beyond that and allows you to clearly see what is behind the top level window. This works to the extent that you can perfectly make out a video playing behind a transparent window. This effect is somewhat more like looking through hazy plastic rather than glass.
Longhorn falls far short of their target, Apple, yet again and it still isn't coming out for over a year.
In Windows, an ordinary user has administrative priviledges, ie: ROOT
Last time I checked, it was Linux that currrently has some in-production accelerated compositing, and Windows that has no compositing to speak of.
And if you're talking about stuff other than eyecandy, the apps Linux ships with (FF, Gaim, OpenOffice 2 etc) are generally better than the Windows counterparts, excepting the multimedia apps due to patent reasons.
Not the same thing as what's going into Longhorn. I would recommend you watch video of it in action.
"Derp de derp."
UNIX has user mode drivers in several flavors. The most common ones are ones that access USB, SCSI, memory mapped I/O, and FireWire devices through generic interfaces. Those have been around for many years and they are widely used.
Many UNIX flavors use "sudo" for driver installations (and other installations). The advantage over Windows is is that the user account is not an administrative account and privileges are only enabled temporarily and specifically for driver installations.
We do have that. The UI in Longhorn is vector based and can offload processing to the GPU.
X11 implementations have offloaded drawing to the GPU for nearly two decades. Furthermore, X11 implementations that hardware accelerate complex Longhorn/OSX-like drawing are already in testing and will likely ship before either Apple or Microsoft will release anything like it.
I've seen videos of Longhorn. have you seen videos of XGL?
To get back on topic: A fundamental aspect of the WWW is that the server is free to give me whatever content it wants, and I am free to view that content (or listen to it) however I want. That is a basic property (and one of the reasons for the success) of the web -- if it doesn't fit a specific business model, then so be it. I'd rather fix the business model than the web, as the web seems to be functioning rather nicely (as it did already before web ads were used).
Support for hardware acceleration is not pervasive with GDI and GDI+, this due to driver support, i believe Matrox provides full support for hardware accelerated GDI & GDI+.
x
See: Matrox Parhelia
The point is this, the operating system windows 2000 has supported pervasive hardware acceleration of the UI since 1999 (W2K was released in 1999). This means that windows supports hardware acceleration of the UI through the APIs of GDI, GDI+ and DirectX. This support was there before it was supported in the Apple OS.
See: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/GDInext.msp
Driver support for DirectX is pervasive, hardware acceleration with DirectX is pervasive. With longhorn the primary UI will be created through DirectX 10 (WGF).
GDI/GDI+ will remain but will no longer be used to generate the primary UI.
I hope that you've made a donation towards their running costs...
says the guy whos running a Poker advertisement in his sig... hmmmm
I know a HURD full of HIRDs just waiting to bring GNU users the ability to install kernel drivers.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Thing is, now he's ecstatic about Avalon (words like "cool" and "sexy" flow freely) for the exact reason he snubbed OSX.
Is he excited about Avalon (the technology, roughly equivalent to OSX's Quartz) or about Aero (the theme, e.g. OSX's Aqua)?
I think Avalon's going to be interesting. Don't give a shit about Aero, though, and will probably still switch back to 'windows classic', if it's an option.
> I've seen videos of Longhorn.
I doubt it.
Actually, your doubt is well founded. I should actually say I've run Longhorn betas and enabled the desktop compositing service.
I don't know about that ... I use Mac OS X and Win2K every day. I get really aggravated by the Windows task bar on a daily basis.
Windows task bar was a brilliant improvement over what Mac Classic had going at the time (click and hold over the upper right corner to see which apps are running and maybe find your windows).
The Dock is like the next level. I can find my windows, I can keep them in a nice place (the "blinds" feature in OS9 kinda sucked), the animation over the application buttons lets me see which one I'm hovering over and lets me make the dock smaller if I want to stick a lot of buttons on it (or not--it's configurable).
Until MS fires back with something better than the Dock, I'm going to be singing Apple's praises.
Asparagus has many and excellent powers.
David Horn? Oh... I thought your name was trolly mc trollerson! My mistake.
Postscript wasn't just used for display - this was an object-based system that let clients applications hand Postscript programs to the window server, so unlike X Windows, you could do work whereever it made the most sense, things like doing mouse tracking at the server and only passing significant events to the client, which made it far more responsive. Some of the things Gosling learned from this showed up later in Java - Security, for instance, was pretty dodgy... And when you iconized the terminal client, it wasn't just a dead icon - it was the same psterm window squashed down to a 1-point font (which means one pixel per character on a typical monitor), so you could still watch for activity on your terminal even though it was iconified.
Display Postscript on NeXt machines wasn't quite as powerful or flexible, but it still let you run your windows in Postscript, getting good-looking displays and a certain amount of power, and some people really liked it.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks