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IBM Officially Kills OS/2
boarder8925 writes "'Big Blue has hammered the final nails into OS/2's coffin. It said that all sales of OS/2 will end on the 23rd of December this year, and support for the pre-emptive multitasking operating system will end on the 31st December 2006.' IBM has posted a migration page to help OS/2 users easily switch to Linux."
It ain't dead until Netcraft confirms it!
Last time I checked, large numbers of ATM machines ran OS2, which is why you don't see the BSOD when you go to grab some cash.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Netcraft confirms it: OS/2 is...
Oh, nevermind.
Who knew that OS/2 was still around?
I heard OS/2 was big in banking, but I just assumed they had moved off of OS/2 some time ago.
Is the OS/2 ran on older hardware similiar to what ran Windows 3.1? Should those that run OS/2 just upgrade to 3.1?
It's a sure thing with all those OS/2 users coming over.
Only fair don't you think?
OS/2 is still around? Thats news to me! I guess I'm not a real geek, but that last time I heard anyone used that operating system was in 1995.
I wasn't aware OS/2 was still in use anywhere.
Do any slashdotters actually use it? if so, where? (And WHY!?)
It's too bad that Microsoft owns so much of OS/2. It would be great to see it released as Open Source. The Open Source OS/2 Petition is a good start.
I loved OS/2 back in its day! I first grew to hate Microsoft as I watched them try to kill it with "Chicago" vaporware and FUD.
I wonder how the 850M MS just paid IBM over it compares to the damage MS really did.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on Slashdot.
OS/2 may not show the BSOD, but it does crash from time to time. Even in ATMs. It's hard to find an O/S that never crashes.
That's not a big deal, though. A friend told me that he lost his ATM card late one stormy night, when the ATM crashed and rebooted mid-transaction. That was when he found it was a Unix box... because the boot messages came up on the monitor...
If they won't support it, why not open the source and release it as such?
From IBM's "migration page"...
"There are no replacement products from IBM. IBM suggests that OS/2 customers consider Linux as an alternative operating system for OS/2 client and server environments."
They aren't helping anyone switch. They're just saying people should use linux since OS/2 won't be supported.
To help switch to Linux, they are assigning a different engineer to each of the 12 customers. Talk about service! :^)
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
I hate thinking of ATM machines - I can never remember my PIN number.
In other news tonight Bill Gates and Linus Torvalds were reported to have been involved in a secret conspiracy which...included suckering Steve Jobs into going x86...
IBM has posted a migration page to help OS/2 users easily switch to Linux.
Sounds like Windows will have competition on an even wider base.
Any cost predictions for such a wide migration? OS/2 is on a fairly wide range of ATMs as it is.
I'm a virgo and on Slashdot. Coincidence? Yes.
So, OS/2. May you rest in peace. And please stop scratching the coffin from the inside. It upsets the bereaved :: wipes a tear from eye ::
Ahh hah hah hah!
What I really find interesting is that IBM has offered a migration HOWTO for the OS users, and its to Linux. Always nice to have the big boy support.
My Thoughts, Kyndig
You fail it!
Want me to send it to you in an IM Message?
eComStation, the OS/2 distro. Time to migrate from your Amiga!
I've never used it (maybe it deserves to die) but I'm surprised IBM didn't spin-off OS/2 sales & support as a little services company (with an appropriate slice of the proceeds of the service contracts). If people want to use OS/2, why not sell it to them? If people need support for it, why not sell it to them?
I could understand a company killing a product that competes with its own more modern systems, but how do continued OS/2 sales hurt IBM more than orphaning some existing customers?
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
OS2's loss is linux's gain. Is anyone really suprised with this? I think we have all seen this coming for quite some time, and it was more a matter of "when" than "if".
Voice your opinion!
Apple Macintosh System 6 and Microsoft Word For DOS are being end-of-lifed in a couple of years, so better start having planning meetings on that. You know, as long as you're at it and everything.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Your PIN number is 1583. Write this down and for goodness' sake, don't reveal it to another living soul.
Don't the ATMs still run OS/2 1.x? Or have they been upgraded ages ago?
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on Slashdot.
As a *BSD user, I really feel great today!
SHAMELESS plug for MOD INFORMATIVE But this site claims to have the un official counts of OS/2 licenses world wide. http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~meile/los2cl.ht ml
Discounting the 500,000 set top boxes, apparently their are about 65,535 licensed installations out their. Hmm, maybe this is why os/2 blew its marketing stack.
I entered my PIN number into an ATM machine, and took out $60 dollars.
I know, I should STFU up...
So, while it looks like IBM is stopping sales(2005) and general support(2006), OS/2 will still be shipping and supported by Serenity Systems via eComStation.
OS/2 is dead, long live OS/2.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Does anyone remember TopView? That was an early event-driven OS that ran on top of PC-DOS and was text-only, but had some Windows capability and multi-tasking.
There was a story where someone at IBM put a stack of old TopView boxed copies in the lobby with a sign "FREE Take one".
A week later, they counted and found three more copies in the stack!
I wonder if the same would happen with OS/2?
All kidding aside, I made some good money from the OS/2 lovers out there. They ran conferences that meant something and were informative, and they hired good speakers. In some respects, the OS/2 crowd were like Macintosh boosters in suits, and the OS was worth the crowing. Unfortunately, IBM forgot that Apple ][ were sold as "Visicalcs" and IBM PC/Compaq computers were sold as "1-2-3". OS/2 never had the visibility of having must-be-there business applications.
It's very interesting that IBM is recommending that OS/2 people move to Linux. I've not investigated their migration tools and aides, but this could be the basis for a Windows-to-Linux migration down the road.
One thing I won't miss is Jerry Pournelle calling it "oh ess half".
Sign the petition at:
http://www.os2world.com/petition
Was the article date correct? It wouldn't be the first time that /. posted an article that was dated years ago.
Steve would love to axe the whole Mac/OS X stuff and go on to focus Apple on trying to expand out from the iPod fad.
After that Windows.
And we will be left with Linux/open source unix implementions as the era of desktop/workstations come to an end.
This of course came as a shock to the dedicated OS/2 userbase, which had recieved no hints that it might no longer be in the forefrunt of the computer culture . . .
xkcd.com - a webcomic of mathematics, love, and language.
User, did you say you're having problems with OS/2? The answer is simple, just switch to Linux.
There's an interesting discussion over at OSNews about this very topic. It seems like OS/2 still has a relatively big fan base, someone mentioned three or four native Mozilla/Firefox ports alone!
From the page here it looks as if IBM is saying that OS/2 apps should be migrated to WebSphere.
I'm sure that they mean WebSphere on Linux, but it could as well run on Windows too, or Solaris or AIX.
Thats ok, since they're being replaced with Diebold Brand Media Players.
WRCT Pittsburgh, 88.3FM
"'Big Fruit has hammered the final nails into OS X PPC's coffin. It said that all sales of OS X PPC will end on the 23rd of December this year, and support for the pre-emptive multitasking operating system will end on the 31st December 2006.' Apple has posted a migration page to help OS X users easily switch to Linux."
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
some really obscure project needs something compiled against a really obscure piece of hardware running it, and has a hardware failure.
In an age of worms and malicious programs, you never hear of ATM's getting hacked.
Too bad IBM did not try and market OS/2 as the secure OS. Then again, once you throw services on any OS, they all become equally vulnerable. Put a web server and database on Linux, hook it up, broadcast, and it can be hacked. Just like windows.
Then again, I bet it is a stripped down version of OS/2 that runs ATM's. There is no need for a full OS. What will people do? Play a game of solitare at the ATM? Email someone?
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
If you sell it, you must support it.
Supporting an operating system can be very expensive. Consider all the device drivers and such.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on Slashdot.
For the love of god it's ATM not ATM machine. No one goes to the Automatic Teller Machine Machine
http://www.streetracingwar.com/
Really?
Someone should tell these guys
see subject for details.
OS/2 is big in banking.
I have not ever worked on OS/2 ever, I have worked in the banking IT for some 6 yrs now. Though I understand the complexity of the systems and difficulties in moving on to new/better/different technologies, its difficult to understand their total refusal to move out of OS/2 world.
So, at least this should prompt them to think about something new.
Lesson: Do it missionary style if you get a chance, or somebody will do it to you in doggy style.
Last time I checked, large numbers of ATM machines ran OS2, which is why you don't see the BSOD when you go to grab some cash.
And i'm sure they'll still be running OS/2 even after IBM stops selling it.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
It said that all sales of OS/2 will end on the 23rd of December this year
Rats! There goes my holiday season although I suppose I could buy some copies on the 22nd as "presents" for the less desirable people on my gift list.
Mr. T pitied this fool on 27 July 1992.
A lot of corporate phone systems run on OS/2, but other than that I don't know of anyplace it's in use still.
LordBodak's journal.
Did the ATM machine run Windows 2000, which is built on Windows NT technology?
Only if you're posting over a DSL line.
What will happen to some mainframes and tape libraries?
OS/2 is still the predominant OS for managing MVS systems (even the new Z series) as well as tape libraries.
Will they be migrating all current environments into Linux as part of this? Or will they just leave those alone?
I wonder...
For the love of god it's ATM not ATM machine. No one goes to the Automatic Teller Machine Machine
Anybody with a PIN number goes to an ATM machine.
Microsoft is an OShole (haha my boston accent comes in handy now) for ruining OS/2.
... they never saw it coming!
Once upon a time I had to use OS/2 to perform weekly maintenance on the cc:mail post offices the company used.
The maintenance program ran on both DOS and OS/2 but once the post office reached a size limit, OS/2 had to be used becuase the DOS version of the maintenance program would hose things. ( a pointer would roll over to 0 in the middle of the pack operation, truncating the post office at that point..)
I haven't used OS/2 myself, but the *nix software I've created over the years has run on OS/2 after some simple patches (mostly just #define's in the C code). So maybe it's not too difficult a transition from OS/2 to some *nix, such as Linux (why specifically Linux I don't know... BSDs might be more appropriate for industrial use in my opinion). I know that OS/2 is used in banking. It is of course a very reliable platform, but I also have colleagues who very much enjoy using OS/2 regularly. There seem to be more OS/2 fans out there than say BeOS fans
If you liked OS/2 you will find eComStation is better.
eComStation is more stable than ms win while being easy to use.
http://www.ecomstation.com/
it looks like that think is a video phone. There is a camera, handset, and a bill slot that takes bills rather than giving them to you.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Er, and they'll keep running exactly as they are doing today until 2045, when BoFA finally replaces the "Watch an ad while we fleece you because you are self employed and have no direct deposit" terminals.
Anyone else use BofA? I personally enjoy having to select Espanol or English every time I use a terminal...even though I've been an English-only customer since 1990 or so.
Thanks, BofA, for making my life easier!
I go to an Automatic Teller Machine Machine and enter my Personal Identification Number Number at least 3 times a wekk!
Music is everybody's possession.
It's only publishers who think that people own it.
Fuck Beta
~John Lenno
I read about it. Once. Ever. I may be part of the new computing generation.
Maybe.
RTFA again for the best results.
With what, a friggin' press release?
Say what you will about Apple, but they sure do know how to kill an OS with panache.
Well, obviously the ATM machine is the machine which dispenses the ATMs.
I'm using an OS/2 right now to write this message at work which happens to be at IBM. Luckly this machine has a Java Citrix client to connect to a Windows desktop so I can do some work in OS/2...sort of.
I hear taps playing now. Whup....Here comes the 21 Gun Salute. Where is everyone else, though? This funeral is mighty sparse. The only other person here is Bill Gates....pointing...and laughing evilly. Hrm.
Sure am using it. eComStation 1.2 http://www.ecomstation.com/ Firefox NVU Samba OpenOffice REXX Java 1.4
Will they finally open the Workplace Shell? It's a truly object-oriented desktop design that's still superior - a decade later - to anything Windows has to offer. Looking back it's hard to believe a lot of the early FUD from MS against OS/2 was aimed at scaring people away because, hey, 2 megabytes of memory was just an absurd requiremet! They also claimed multithreaded programming was no big deal. If they open up the Workplace Shell maybe OS/2 could preserve some of its legacy. It would rock on Linux.
Tim,
c ime.net/
You may want to take a look at MontaVista's real-time Linux offerings (http://www.mvista.com./ I was the technical lead for a real-time Java controller core that ran atop Hard Hat Linux and implemented both BACNet and Profibus (via Applicom dedicated I/O cards) for building automation and industrial robots, respectively.
I sold the rights to the software to the oil drilling equipment company that implemented the industrial robots but I'll be happy to assist if you want to discuss. You can find me as pr3d4t0r in irc.freenode.net ##java or chupacabra in Undernet #java.
Here is an old page describing some of the stuff that we did: http://web.archive.org/web/20010302021846/http://
I'll be a speaker at the Java in Action conference in Orlando this coming October; one of the sessions will talk about recent work I made in embedded/mobile/full-automation stuff. Most of my work is now based on Linux with some OS X, Solaris, and QNX to spice things up (I now work full-time for someone else; got tired of the startup game...)
Cheers and good luck,
E
http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
I entered my PIN number into an ATM machine
Did the ATM machine run Windows 2000, which is built on Windows NT technology?
I know, I should STFU up...
Only if you're posting over a DSL line.
Relating to TFA article, I think the ATM machine was running the Operating System OS/2. At least, AFAIK know.
And this is all utter nonsense, but what do I care? I'm posting as an AC coward!
Well, I for one only use ATM Machines with LCD Displays.
Amiga isn't dead yet...
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
If OS/2 is still in use in a lot of places, someone else may step in to do support. It is not going to be cheap to transition to any other OS.
I used OS/2 on my first ThinkPad in 1995 and 1996. A very stable platform.
Hmmm....
I would think that a DSL Modem might qualify as an ATM Machine (as it usually uses ATM as the primary network access protocol for communicating via DSL over copper).
I think I have an ATM Machine on the back of my house. It multiplexes my telephone and data connections over fiber and sends it to the PUD where their ATM Switch (another ATM Machine) splits the traffic and sends it to the appropriate places.
None of this has to do with OS/2 except that OS/2 often powers another sort of ATM...
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
I don't think you've checked very recently. The vast majority of ATM's have been Windows based for at least 2 or 3 years.
The big transition started happening around Y2K. They needed to upgrade the hardware in many of the systems anyways, so they took the opportunity to bail on OS/2 as well (given IBM's "don't ask, don't tell" stance on it).
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
Our phone system's voice mail processor used to be on an OS/2 Warp 3.x box (with the GUI disabled). Thing was stable as hell, ran for years without being touched.
When we "upgraded" the phone system, it got replaced with one that runs on NT. It came preloaded with an 'at' job to reboot it nightly...
Well, obviously the ATM machine is the machine which dispenses the ATMs.
Or ATM cells (Async. Transfer Mode). An ATM adapter card might make your PC into an ATM Machine....
Does OS/2 support any common ATM hardware for things like DSL modems, or ATM over Fiber? I would assume so. In that case it probably powers both various ATM Machines and ATM's....
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
What is a pre-emptive multitasking operating system? Is that when you multitask before the user asks you to? Maybe your threads terminate before you call kill? Maybe I'm stupid and just don't get it.
You must work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
...and it isn't a troll. I used to support OS/2 and it sucked like an Electrolux. 2.1 and Warp 3. Some of the worst time of my professional life.
Firstly, it had an interface that was bass ackward on a level that no sadist Motif nutcase in Hell could have conceived and which made that of the Amiga look almost sane. It set out to not be Unix, DOS, Windows, or anything else that you could use without training and regular doses of crazy pills never mind headache meds. Those of my family working the insurance companies with massive IBM entrenchment agreed.
You want paradigm shifting without popping the clutch? I know of several companies which took people and gave them massive training just to make basic use of OS/2, threw them onto Windows 95 or NT without training, then put them back onto OS/2 until they could, in essence, deprogram their OS/2 users.
Secondly, it was supposed to be compatible with DOS and FAT16. In practice, it could write things to a FAT16 partition across a LAN on a DOS/Win machine that could not be read by DOS/Win and caused automated back-ups to fail and require someone to spend sixteen hours watching the machine to hit buttons and tell the backup software to ignore the problem. It behaved like an infertile virus that happened to double as an OS.
Thirdly, the ONLY place it excelled was stable multitasking of DOS windows and even it was like dealing with Dirty Harry. Was it stable with seven or eight windows before another one crashed it? Well, do you feel luck, punk?
Like Token Ring it was stillborn and it would have been better had its authors been using intellectual protection and not conceived it in the first place, requiring this after the fact abortion. Strong wording I know, but I sacrificed sixty hours a week to that horrific demon spawn and would rather have never had to.
Thankfully, many IBM shops saw past the folly of single-sourcing everything to IBM, saw that IBM was rapidly becoming a corporation dedicated to whatever it was no matter the amount of idiocy involved, and that IBM could not do for them on the desktop what Windows could.
Rest In Deletion, OS/2.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Oh, woe is me!
-- ricOS/2
We hardly knew ya.
You don't need source to impliment ideas*, just a good work ethic.
*You know? "ideas...put a taper to..."
Okay, in reality, it's more like the Monty Python parrot, but, hey, the Amiga's just really pining for the fjords and is shagged out after a long squawk....
I heard that your library burnt down and destroyed your only two books - and one was not even coloured in yet.
just wait until microsoft implements their new NT technology in the ATM machines.
OS/2? sound more like OS/who!
~adam sandler
Well, we all go to the slash slash slash dot dot. :P
OK, it wasn't technically a BSOD, but I have seen ATMs being rebooted after they crashed...
(Just because OS/2 was better than Windows, doesn't mean it's unbreakable!)
You forgot about StarDock and their add-on (of which I have a copy :).
Supporting an operating system can be very expensive. Consider all the device drivers
and such.
Somebody who hasn't upgraded from OS/2 till now
would probably have not upgraded the devices attached to his machine - so no new device drivers are needed.
It means that the operating system doesn't depend on applications voluntarily yielding the CPU to the operating system, like with early versions of Windows and Mac OS.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Since the mods seem to be OK with this off topic divergence here, I'll throw in my $.02.
I've been with BofA for the past 10 years and have been (overall) happy with them. It took them forever and a day to get their online (web-based) banking up to snuff but when they finally did, it was equal to or better than the competition.
As far as their ATMs asking you if you'd like to transact in English or Spanish is concerned, I can only say that they are hardly the only bank around with ATMs that ask this question.
I have a novel idea!
Scott
©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
Considering that OS/2 was the primary OS of the Phamton, does this mean the Phantom will never see the light of day?
vs cooperative as in pre windows 95, the apps had to be nice to each other. One single app could drag the whole box down on its arse. Ahhhhhh the memories!
You never catch me alive
Most of them updated to ver 4 for Y2K. Some even upgraded to NT as NT (at least till Win2k) still runs text mode 16 bit OS/2 fine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
A penguin is heard laughing its ass off.
insert inflammatory anti-microsoft comment here
Thank you Captain Obvious!
That's freakin' hilarious. I thought that the writer meant to say "Preeminent," and I made fun of him, when in reality, I was the one who didn't know what he was talking about.
Who'da thought there was something called a "pre-emptive" multitasking environment!
Bah.
A real ATM should run a real Operating system.
The OS/2 userbase was totally shocked upon hearing this news from IBM. He then went to the fridge and got a soda.
Basically, yes. Once upon a time, there was cooperative multitasking (e.g. Windows 3.1). A program was given control of the system's resources (CPU, etc.) and the program and the OS had a gentleman's agreement that the program would return control of the resources after using up its timeslice. This worked as long as all programs cooperated properly . . . which of course means it sucked.
Preemptive multitasking means the OS preemptively takes control of the resources when the program's time is up, without asking. So, if a rogue program starts eating up cycles and generally acting like an asshole, the rest of the system doesn't suffer (much). Anyway, OS/2 had it first in the early 90s (along with Linux), and Windows didn't really have it implemented decently until 2000.
Yeah, Adam's machine is down for a while from a messed up Solaris upgrade, and he is running off of a backup file server, and then you post a link to it from Slashdot? Nice...
Isn't it our job to keep it alive through torrenting?
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
Why doesn't IBM open the OS/2 source, and include it in a Linux distro as an "OS/2 binary 'emulation' layer"? Wouldn't that allow lots of Windows programs to run under that Linux distro? And couldn't the WINE project use the opened source to make WINE work better? Is there some mojo still left in the unholy alliance with Microsoft that still compels IBM to keep the source proprietary, even to the grave?
--
make install -not war
What is that, some version of DOS?
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
Usually while eating TCBY Yogurt.
Certainly looks that way.
I took the photos back in 2000 or so. (This is in Karlskrona, Sweden, btw.) Until then, I had no idea what powerful O/S was running those machines. I ran to borrow the camera when I found out.
Personally when I go to the ATM, I fear the BSOZ.
You know, the Blue Screen Of Zeros, which details the amount of... money in each of... my accounts... Nooooooooo !
that's cool -
I'd built some apps running on an OS/2 "pc server" running in a back closet during my time at IBM. Almost 4 years later, it was still going with my (or any other dev afaik) touching it.
You think that's bad? With Wells Fargo, I have to choose between English and Hmoob.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
At one point they were giving away copies free with magazines so surely I can get it legally without paying.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
"The OS for the Internet Generation!"
I just Googled that phrase and it seems he is the only one using it. AND no one seems to be paying much attention to him.
oh well, he tried,
sorry Tom (aka BigMiniGuy, aka BigWarpGuy...)
I like microcars
Learned a decent amount about OS internals. Certainly led me and others down "enlightened paths" later in life (from an OS PoV).
getting verklempt ...
Knew ye well, OS/2. Rest in Peace.
They've updated the error message in Longhorn to make it much more comprehensible to the average user. The new message reads:
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
Last time I checked, large numbers of ATM machines ran OS2, which is why you don't see the BSOD when you go to grab some cash.
I saw a newer Diebold ATM running some form of WinXP a few months ago. It was showing a desktop... I dunnno why. Also, I noticed a lot of gas station POS systems running OS/2.
Deltron 3030 - Virus (music video)
n/t
This space available.
Not the keyboard driver though. Apparently my MB had the right controller. But drivers or lack thereof, IIRC it was the EIDE controller.
Also the install process was a bitch as the freebee was on floppy and the install would crash. Buy the time I found a machine that would run it I hated it.
Came back to that partition a month later. Never liked it. Too busy to switch espically if it is obvious you are just trading devils.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Wait that is my pin..... gotta go change it now, thanks.
Hey, you gotta admit that they have some really great commercials. Like the one where you stick in all your money into the machine and it counts it bill by bill, displaying each bill with a large picture on the screen so that the guy behind you can see just how much cash you just deposited. I hear rumors circulating that their next innovation will be to have the machine count out the bills that it's dispensing in a loud, clear voice - just like a real teller would. You know, "one hundred, two hundred, three hundred..."
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
(do I win?)
Indeed. IBM pretty much left the ATM market entirely about 5 years ago. There's only a few left, most are Diebold (which I curse every time I have to use one)
ATM machine is the machine which dispenses the ATMs
Dude, I so want one of these. I'd just start sticking ATMs in random places. In fact, if done right, this is probably a reasonably good way to take over the world, or cause massive mobs of enraged tourists whose cards were eaten, or both. Think of the possibilities!
Misa no botha with yousa.
At some point that happens, the amount of money you spend supporting something exceeds the amount of money you make on support contracts.
What probably did it was ATM upgrades. That was the big OS/2 market. Well newer ATMs all started going to Windows. When Y2K was approaching, ATMs needed an upgrade to support it. Though some chose to upgrade their OS/2 ATMs, many decided since the ATMs were being upgraded anyhow, fuck it, upgrade verything and go to Windows, it's prettier anyhow.
Also I'm willing to bet some increased costs are comming up, since banks are probably starting to think of moving to new encryption hardware sooner or later now that AES is fairly well established.
So probably they decided it just wasn't profitable anymore, and cut it.
OS/2? People are still using OS/2?
-- My 2nd computer was the peanut (IBM PC/jr)
I remember that day I brought that box with 30-something floppy disks home from Wal-Mart. Yes kids, Wal-Mart sold OS/2 back in the olden days.
I was a "beta tester" for Warp 4 "Merlin" just so I could get it on a CD and get it early.
It was fun while it lasted, it was fun running it before the Windows users got their "pre-emptive multitasking" Windows 95.
Then came along Windows NT and I finally retired OS/2.
RIP OS/2, and thank you.
Acutally.... Most of those ATM machines you see in Deli's, liquor stores, and otherwise still run OS/2 1.3 - the Microsoft/IBM release.
Is that bug still a showstopper? It was 10 years ago.
Yes, I've had this happen to me, although it was probably more of an application fault:
I inserted my card, pressed one of the context buttons on side of the screen to choose language, and when PIN prompt screen appeared, I pressed the same button again. Poof, screen went dark, and next thing I saw on screen was a nice, shiny OS/2 logo.
Fortunately, after two or three(!) reboots, the ATM software started up properly, and the machine spat out my card.
They DID count the number of time OS/2 was mentionned.
But most of the time, they occured in Simon's Bastard Operator From Hell, who cited the OS/2 fan club. The whole 2 of them.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I've had it freak out on reading my card, i highly doubt it was an OS issue since the OSs are pretty much stripped of everything. It was probably the driver for magnetic card reader.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
Try OpenBSD. Clean, stable, secure, well-documented, with an installer that doubles as an IQ high-pass filter.
If you don't know what that means, you are probably a better fit for Debian 3.1's new sunny-walk-in-the-park installer. Noob.
There are always the OPENSTEP/Mach clones. :-)
But was it using OS/2 Operating System, or did it have Windows NT technology with BSOD screens? Man, Windows crashes are annoying.
I would RTFA the article, but if I IIRC, those IBM machines have been going out of style for decades. I've heard new ATM machines have a Universal USB bus just like a PC computer, and you can use biometric ID identifier devices.
Works for some of us.
Come on, Windows 2000 was bad, but not a total failure!
Pre-emptive... Wasn't that the explanation that Dubaya gave for invading Iraq?
There were really only 1 or 2 really major bugs that I feel really hurt OS/2's chances. IBM was never keen on fixing them no matter how many users complained. I also don't recall a single native OS/2 program that used threads as effectively as they could have been used. The workplace shell was easily corrupted and God help you if you managed to trash your desktop with all the objects that they liked to register everywhere.
Oh well. It was fun while it lasted. It paid the bills for me throughout the '90's and I'll fondly remember doing the '95 Comdex in Atlanta with Team OS/2 (That's where I got certified) and threatening to mug "Team Microsoft" (A buch of MS employees MS brought with them so they could pretend they had a grass roots movement too) and leave them duct taped in one of the back booths that no one ever goes to.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I've seen cashpoints with BSODs so don't be so proud of that technological terror.
That said, when I worked for German PC shop chain, Escom, back in 1994/5 they had just got in the first Pentium machines and they had OS/2 free with them. Windows 95 cost £50 extra I think.
Br That was the first and last time I saw OS/2
... so an ATM dispenses Automated Tellers?
Last time I went to buy a train ticket in Italy, the poor guy there spent 5-10 minutes on this antique computer trying to dial it up. Then the darn thing crashed and he had to reboot... splash screen:
OS/2 Warp
I guess it still beats Chicago.
I ran a multiline Waffle BBS offering Usenet and email in 91/92 on an 8 Meg 386-40 running OS/2, while at the same time using the computer to type my essays in Word Perfect (being a starving university student at the time and not being able to afford a second computer.)
I remember between trying to decide between OS/2 and SCO Xenix (I was previously a SCO tech-support weenie, and had several installations from a VAR that went out of business).
OS/2 won because I could play Duke Nukem -- the original 2D Duke Nukem! Plus OS/2 just plain looked cool.
When Linux came out I ditched it. Long live Yggdrassil!
"This is totally insecure, but very convenient."
Thats quite funny because I have seen a number of ATM's in EU (notably ABNAMRO) which have had Windows NT error message dialogs and indeed BSOD's!
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
Some people are so good at using the ATM that THEY are ATM machines.
Younger readers might not remember much (or anything) about OS/2 and the history behind it.
This is my understanding, anyone correct me if I'm wrong on some points, please:
Microsoft developed OS/2 for IBM, as a sort of next generation operating system. And it was; it was fast, efficient, good looking, responsive, easy to develop under, with a much cleaner API than Win32.
I'm not sure if Microsoft sold OS/2 itself, but I seem to vaguely remember that there was a Microsoft version of it, as well as an IBM version of it, with only minor differences. It's my recollection that all indications were that Microsoft was going to put its weight behind OS/2.
After getting IBM heavily committed to it, they turned around and worked on their own, incompatible, equivalent (NT). It really was quite a screw job on the part of Microsoft to intentionally lead IBM astray, in my view. A faily anti-competitive way to weild their growing clout.
Wikipedia has some interesting history on it.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Well, it makes more sense if you think of it as the "Any-Time Money Machine" But nothing is better than seeing an ATM BSOD, or seeing the Windows Desktop on an ATM. A very expensive Diebold Media Player. Gee...Imagine that...people are actually worried about the security about Diebold voting machines? Funny how I haven't seen any mass-complaints relating to Diebold ATM's. Was O/S 2 a better platform for ATM's? If for no other reason, obscurity. You can argue all of the merits of O/S 2 till the cows come home, but the switch to Windows was eventually gonna happen just from sheer market share numbers. (No! I didn't want to drag that money to the recycle bin! I was trying to drag it to checking)
At the OS/2 adds. proudly lording this new "Mul-tie tasking" feature that my MIG had been doing for years.
wow it can print and I don't have to wait!! (so I could print, play music and write a program symaltaniously)
Error: Spellchecker missing, using dyslexia instead.
In the not too distant future, next Sunday A.D.
I programmed ATMs in my last job, and
actually, the ATM OSes are usually not stripped of anything but quite complete, at least when it's Windows. They just have a lot of functions disabled via registry. However, you're right in that the biggest source of problems are the drivers for the special hardware - or the interaction between the drivers and the ATM app. There is a standard for these things (WOSA XFS), but it's the most badly-defined and badly-supported standard I've ever seen.
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
Release the damnit SOURCE CODE for the love of God!!!
In fact, us old farts remember Microsoft plugging upgrades from OS/2 Warp to Dos 6.22!!
I kid you not. They really marketed it that way. Goebbels would be proud.
All things being equal, most any things being marketed at the time WRT NT 3.5x and Windows 95 was utter and complete festering crap.
There's one gigantic advantage to using NT, thought. It can really, truly kill a process 99.5% of the time, no matter if the app is FUBARred or not. With OS/2 reboot was necessary from time to time since you had too many hung apps kicking around which you couldn't kill no matter what. Yes, I had all those fancy-schmancy "kill" drivers installed, none worked. If the app wouldn't/couldn't process it's exit list, it was there for good.
Another huge downside was that a single misbehaving app could freeze the user interface. Yeah, every app would still RUN, but you couldn't do anything!
There was eventually patch/kludge to help this a bit but on NT this never was a problem.
For the record, I skipped the dos-based windows series (95, 98, ME) and jumped on happy bill wagon when they came up with W2k. Finally they made an os that didn't, basically, suck.
Acronyms are usually treated linguistically as adjectives when they're still pronounced as acronyms. 'ATM' is a word on its own that derives from 'automatic teller machine', but does not necessarily parse as that. The fact that enough people use the word like that means that you are wrong, though you have history on your side.
Look out!
For about 10 or so years ago i bought a $5 game at a small retailer here in Norway. I didnt want the game, but they where giving away free OS/2 versions with every value game purchase. And that nice, big, plastic wrapped box had a strange appeal to a young man...
Never tried the os though...
Good riddance...
Seriously.
I worked for a company that used OS/2 on a lot of their boxes and it was a complete nightmare to work with. I also cited vengence on it after an ATM running it ate my friends card and then rebooted (not during a scheduled maintenence)
I've seen some ATMs run on Windows ME these days. It was obvious when a tech opened it and rebooted the machine, it showed the Windows ME boot logo.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
You know, "one hundred, two hundred, three hundred..."
"My my, that's a lot of cash you got there buddy. You sure you want to walk around with all that on you? four hundred, five hundred...
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Please do come to the Netherlands then. We get blue screens and "Driver cannot be found" errors on most of our cash machines. Except for the older types, which are also around twice as fast and loads more reliable...
:)
Seriously, to my horror most stuff here runs on windows. I'm expecting dutch railways (www.ns.nl) to bring out a report stating they switched to windows around 2.5 years ago as since then, the amount of train collisions has gone from 0 between 1970 and 2002 to 4 between 2002 and 2005 (all as far as I know). Windows just crashes too much
I wonder if any of these ATM machines still run the Microsoft MS-DOS Operating System.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
There are still some lunatics beating their heads against the RISC OS wall.
I can confirm this only because while returning to Heathrow airport on Thursday morning, the damn ATM crashed in the middle of my transaction. As it rebooted OS/2 Warp flashed across the screen. Unfortunately for me the ATM swallowed my card and my bank advised me to cancel it.
So yes ATM's use OS2, and yes OS2 machines crash.
NO, that price goes to dos. Spend two entire afternoons trying to get it to work on my brothers computer.
Freedom or George Bush
Newer ones are running Win. They're communicating over TCP/IP now, as well. Believe it or not, that's a recent development. And yes, there will be hacks. Most financial institutions aren't nearly as security-concious as the man in the street probably thinks. You wouldn't *believe* what goes on in some of the smaller credit unions--the ones with only a few thousand members, and a staff of three.
My first exposure to a "native" TCP/IP implementation (anyone remember that winsock.dll you hadda get before Windows would get online?)
Did they do a complete socket implementation or only the half-assed one Microsoft and Be managed, where you had to use different calls on sockets or files?
Some of them have LCD Displays
http://michaelsmith.id.au
A quick Google Image Search shows a few images of ATM's with BSOD (admittedly many of the same ATM, but they're out there).
Only if it works with Windows 2003 Server, which is based on NT technology.
?SYNTAX ERROR
I know, I should STFU up...
geez.. I read that, and didn't get the 3 jokes! I guess I see it too often that I accept the mistakes!
Yesterday I actually heard a co-worker request something as ASAP as possible. I couldn't stop laughing.
... they've done that with the release of Windows 95, and that's 10 years ago.
I've tried OS/2 Warp back in 1999. I think the version was something between 4.5 and 5.0
It got installed in about three hours (or possibly even longer), looked like Windows 3.11 with extensions to make it look like '95. It was SLOW (the PC was a 486). It was actually slower than Windows 2000. It was swapping all the time.
I don't like Windows at all, but my OS/2 experience was even worse. It is definetly not a desktop OS, and it's too outdated for a server one. More difficult to configure than Windows 2003 Server and more expensive than Linux/*BSD.
Same thing for the file allocation table table :D
All spelling mistakes are due to solar flares...honest
Every time i'm going to the netherlands I'm certain I'm gonna stumble upon ATMs in various stages of crash / reboot / BSOD ...
:)
I don't know guys, maybe you should make a special case in your local drug laws concerning the people who code the damn things
It used to be a buzzword, sometime back in 1990 or so. The fact that the article submitter uses it today speaks volumes.
Truly an operating system icon...
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Some ATMS, in the UK at least, do run Windows NT4 or 2000. They also seem to have a really kludgy startup sequence involving several parallel .BAT scripts, some of which use delays to ensure correct startup order - not to mention the fact that they're running Explorer in the background all the time.
Acronyms are usually treated linguistically as adjectives when they're still pronounced as acronyms.
You mean "initialisms", but I get your point.
In addition, trademarks are treated as adjectives no matter what form they take:
You must have a significant minority of Miao people in your area. "Hmoob" is the native spelling of Hmong, a term used here to mean the language of the Miao: 'hm' means a devoiced /m/ (devoiced /m/ and /n/ are whispered in some contexts); doubling a vowel indicates nasalization; the 'b' at the end indicates the tone of the preceding symbol. Best approximation in a European language is French mon.
Vobis is still around today and doing pretty well. Comtech went bankrupt but was bought be another company and is still in business today. Unfortunately both are not experimenting anymore, you can buy the usual HP, Acer, Sony notebooks, an ipod or their own brandname computer there with WinXP.
But does a Vobis computer play .ogg?
IBM should have made OS2 free about the same time that MS started giving away Internet Explorer for free.
> I don't think you've checked very recently. The vast majority of ATM's have been Windows based for at least 2 or 3 years.
Actually at my bank (I won't disclose the name of the bank), they do use OS/2 WARP. I have seen a particular ATM reboot multiple times within the last few months
The tellers (nonautomated), run XP on the desktop and reboot into DOS for certain operations
especially since there are 4 of the jokes in there (PIN/number, ATM/machine, $/dollars, STFU/up)... ;)
You forgot to tell him to write it on the back of his ATM card. Now he'll just lose it again!
So, do people understand you when you say you're going to the AT Machine?
Helevius
My OS/2 2.1 box from the early 1990's is still running. I haven't shut it down in years! What's especially scary is the 48MB IDE drive in it is still spinning too.
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
Actually, it's "Automated Teller Machine"
OS/2 came out at a time when we all wanted something 'not Microsoft', and something which would take advantage of the 80286 PROT mode. Then, OS/2 was it. Of course we all looked across at the current state of UN*X at the time. It was miserable, expensive (XENIX) and imature. So OS/2 was going to be it. Another Beta vs VHS really. Good guys - 0, Bad guys (M$) - 1. RIP OS/2
I have seen more and more of them running Windows (2000)
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
To be fair: Say "ATM" around a collection of geeks and see what's the first thing that pops into their head.
"ATM Machine" is just the grammatical error du jour of the day.
The tens of people who still use OS2 will be dissapointed.
My ATM Machine is at UMB Bank.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
God, please no. I hate ATMs that talk. The one in my bank talks in a really annoying British accent, and LOUDLY. And you can't shut her up. I hate her. I've never hated a machine so thoroughly. I have bad dreams about meeting this woman while going in to see a human teller to make a deposit. I'm afraid I'll go nuts and they'll have to lock me up for my own safety... so now I just stick my money in my mattress and avoid the evil nasty British sounding ATM machine. Better than going to jail for beating the shit out of it.
Why won't IBM release OS/2 into the wild as Open Source? It is (was) a great Operating System.
Goodbye OS/2,
I will miss you,
Goodbye to your cousin NT 4.0 too,
Boo Hoo, Boo Hoo
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
Anyone with any sense calls them Cash Machines, or here in Ireland we most refer to them as the Drink Link.
-- Kish Me I'm Iriss
I will do my best for OS/2!
Sassy *** Team OS/2 Japan ***
A year or two ago I went to the NC SECU ATM down the block from my office. It was sitting at the AMI BIOS screen because of a memory failure. The BIOS was for a 486/33 CPU, which was ancient. So I'd imagine an ancient OS on an ancient CPU would run just fine.
It's everything a toilet isn't.
This was true even 2-3 years ago, but I think even *that* pool of OS/2 deployments has pretty much dried up. Certainly in Canada they're almost all Win2k or Linux based now...our bank (pick one of the five haha) was the last to my knowledge and we killed the last off late last year.
I was using gopher and mosaic on OS/2 when Microsoft was still debating shipping a TCP/IP stack w/ Windows 95.
RIP OS/2. They built you bigger, better, faster, but you were steamrolled by MS WalMart OS.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
It's just like when people get on their Local LAN Networks, GUI interfaces, use TCP Protocol, and use their AIM Messenger.
One of the biggest problems with OS/2 Warp was the single threaded IO queue. If for whatever reason the IO queue got filled or broken in any way it would hard hang the system requiring a cold restart. There were some hacks to arbitrarily extend the length of the queue but that only postponed the pain.
I used OS/2 after I got fed up with DOS/Win3.1 crashing all the time. I was amazed at how much better of a desktop experience it provided in 1994 than Win3.1. It didn't have the slickness of Mac OS at the time, but it had a lot of things that went beyond Mac OS and were alsmot more NeXT-like. I used it for about a year, then Win95 came out and since I was into certain games that the OS/2 Windows subsystem didn't run well I moved to it.
Interestingly enough, I tried OS/2 again after a few years just on a lark. By this time I'd gotten a job that introduced me to Windows NT4 and I'd been working with that for about 2 years. It really amazed me just how much OS/2 resembled NT4 in a lot of ways, only with a better GUI and much more reliable. The fact that a lot of banks used OS/2 for a long time, indicates just how well made OS/2 was at the time when compared to DOS/Win3.1, Win9x and early WinNT. I think Microsoft, kind of, caught up to OS/2 with Windows 2000 SP3 in terms of reliability. But MS still doesn't seem to "get" the concept of a proper Object Oriented desktop. OS/2 did. NeXTSTEP did. And of course, Mac OS X does.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Huh. Whaddaya know.
Three leters for you.... G N U.
Don't be a word nazi
Coincidently, I was just visiting the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), who had recently loaded new software onto their ATMs, and one of them rebooted moments before I got there. I arrived in time to watch it boot NT 4.0 SP6 advertising 512MB or RAM. It booted to a Windows desktop and spewed out errors on the login script, presumably preventing it from loading the ATM's native UI. Unfortunetly, the ATM doesn't feature a touch-screen, so further investigation was not possible.
man o man!
....
first Microsoft pulls MS Dos out from under my posterieur, now my beloved OS/2 with the 3.11 look and feel goes,
what's next, they'll put me into an old folks home?
The world as we know is crumbling
I feel like in 'The Never Ending Story', the dark is creeping up on us!
Next is assembly programming and ASIC design, I fear. We are heading back to the stone age!
In addition to this, I'm reasonably certain that all of the cash registers, as well as some of the back-office systems for one of the major Australia supermarkets still run on OS/2 (on the cash-related back-office systems it's possible to open an About window showing the OS/2 logo and 'Copyright 1992'). The register software is actively maintained, but I'm guessing there haven't been any major changes recently.
I guess, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
Do you enter your pin number on an ATM machine while looking at the LCD display?
People criticised OS/2 as being massively overdesigned. However, it was properly designed, and over time it showed more and more. It's an incredibly well done and integrated system, especially for its time. The GUI and CLI work together better than any other OS, ever. Linux's open chucking-it-together development has no doubt helped it grow relatively quickly with relatively few paid workers, but the value of a good design shows through in the end. I really hope some way is found to carry OS/2 on.
I am trolling
How unfortunate. I share the same history of using OS/2 with some of the BBS's I ran in the past. With the headstart it had on Windows, it should have only been a matter of time before it took the market. Sad to see it go.
[%] Cingular Ringtones
The most glaring omission however is how to PORT your desktop applications from OS/2 to Linux desktop. This book is more concerned with showing you the alternate applications for the basic "out of the box" user.
Have you Meta Moderated t
This event saddens me.
Although I had to, as a matter of necessity for OS/2 has been dying for years now, switch to Windows development in 1996, my OS/2 experience opened up significant doors for me professionally.
I can't believe the level of disinformation about the OS that I'm reading in here now, several years after the facts were clarified and disseminated. I'd love to dispell these preconceived "un-notions" but - let's face it - what's the point?
OS/2 will never be Open Source. That's a shame, but a sad reality. Microsoft undoubtedly has a very good IP foothold on the source, in spite of the fact that their level of involvement starting from version 2.0 was basically limited to contributing the HPFS.
Yes, Microsoft went very far in their attempts to stiffle OS/2 development. I recall one story where an MS employee told one of my colleagues (when I was still in IBM's research division) point blank that it should have been impossible for OS/2 to support SMP because they specifically designed portions of the kernel to prevent that. (On a side note, we could never get any hard evidence regarding this to use against them in court.)
There are other anecdotal stories about MS vs. IBM vis-a-vis OS/2 development, but in the end it's all just a bunch of good popcorn stories.
It was stable. It had class. It was predictable in almost any environment. It scaled well between servers, ATMS, backend stuff and workstations. And, at least in the implementations I saw, it was efficient as hell.
I worked for Meridian Bank back in the early 90's as a simple integration tech. Everything was cool - then came the buyout. It's inevitable - every bank eventually gets bought by another bank, and it happened on my shift on fine day.
A lot of people lost their jobs, a lot of 'redundant' branches were closed. But for me, worse things happened. You see, Corestates was still using strung together DOS scripts and it was messy. User's workstations were downgraded to Novell/DOS/Win 3.11 with the OS loading on 4 or 16 Megabit Token Ring. On Audit Day (Wednesday), a user could expect to wait up to 15 minutes for their machine to boot into the network. It was ugly, the users hated us... Hell, I hated us! I didn't leave that job soon enough.
Everyone there missed their 32-bit OS and as this was one year before Windows 95, it would be several years before they started getting 95/NT on the desktop. The horror!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
I'm probably showing my ignorance, but on the surface, the code for an ATM doesn't look all that impossible.
I'd think a Wx/python stack could be written is fairly short order that would handle most of the typical ATM functions.
Lord knows if they got just 1 guy on the project who had some experience designing UI's it would be a superior product to what's currently deployed in one location.
And the banks who are still running the OS/2 machines obviously aren't in a hurry to spend money on new hardware and software.
Someone would have to figure out how to interface with the hardware but it's an IBMPC-compatible if it's running OS/2 and actual units can be picked up on eBay for modest money.
One could commoditize the ATM market with an OSS software stack, and standards could be followed such that people could integrate COTS card readers, screens, bill dispensers, etc. into whatever plastic front is appropriate. Then it's not too hard to implement smart-cards biometrics, whatever because anyone can innovate.
So are there any banking developers here who will kindly point out the folly of my ways?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Last I worked with OS/2 it was running on a blade inside an AS/400 midrange doing Firewall dutys.
After 2 years and daily calls to IBM for support, I came to the conclusion that IBM didn't put the dollars into OS/2 that it required. OS/2 was more unstable than Win95. IBM did the initial install of OS/2, all the software on it came from and was installed by IBM, and changes were only done by IBM. So you can't blame me for the problems.
OS/2 also runs their Lan connect 3995 (?) jukeboxes. After the firewall issues, we went with SCSI direct connect to the AS/400.
OS/2 is dead, long live OS/2.
I bought my last complete PC in 1995. (Built my own ever since.) I remember spending hours on the phone with the Midwest Micro (still around?) sales rep to verify exactly what sound card, video card, etc. would be in the machine -- all so I could be sure it would OS/2-compatible.
What I remember most clearly, however, was spending almost $2,000 to upgrade the system to 32 MB of memory. OS/2 Warp on a 120 MHz Pentium with 32 MB of memory absolutely screamed!
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Only if you've got Adobe Type Manager (ATM) installed
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
...but that seems to be the favourite push of the new owners of Amiga. The 'real' Amiga (OS4) is still in beta, out with users, but it hasn't gone officially to a release version yet. I still live in hope (yes, I'm one of those sad individuals who still watches what AmigaOS is doing (or isn't, as the case may be), hoping for a resurrection ;) )
;)
Oh well, in any case, it's still more alive (officially, at least), than OS/2
I heard that your library burnt down and destroyed your only two books - and one was not even coloured in yet.
Then nobody in the world goes to an ATM machine; they all have a distinct lack in the Personal Identification Number number area. Same goes for Network Interface Card cards, just to snub that one while I'm going on about it.
#include <disclaimer.h>
#include <beer.h>
Sure, I'd trust my money to the most unstable OS ever made!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Being one of very few IBM OS/2 Professionals left in the world, I think IBM (once the SCO/IBM trial is over and IBM wins) should outright buy Novell. This way, they now OWN the Unix name and all rights to it, they'll own a major Linux distribution they can fix (since Novell crippled it) and ...
(Pinky) Gee, Brain, what are we going to do tonight?
(Brain) The same thing we do every night, Pinky - Try and take over the world!
as of last year, it was pretty dead as far as internet site serving, stats here . 10 whole sites!
that's down from 19 sites a year ago, so the numbers are in and Netcraft has confirmed, OS/2 is dying proof here I'm sad, I did Pascal and Foxpro development on OS/2 for construction estimating and scheduling.
Its 1077, the price of a cheese pizza and a large coke back where you used to work, Panucci's Pizza.
music lover since 1969
I will be wearing mine for 30 days. I remember going to my buddies house who was the regions OS/2 rep. He had 200+ copies of excel running in minimized windows because he could! And no crashes...sigh Here's to an OS before its time.
-----
Wont somebody please think of the MAINFRAMES!
Last I checked, IBM's latest version of bigiron had an OS/2 based controller front end
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
There was an unhappy ATM machine near where I live that (for a period of a few weeks) every day by about 10pm would be displaying a "Visual C++ runtime error!" windows dialog :)
It looks like AmigaOS is slowly crawling to the top again. heheheh
Like others, I ran OS/2 until Windows 95 came out. IBM used to advertise that you could get 736k available in a DOS box under OS/2 and I came pretty close to that a couple of times - and thought I was hot stuff until someone asked me why I needed 736k to run an application that could only address 640k ;-)
But - this was back in the days when I quad-booted OS/2, a Win95 beta, Windows 3.1 and a RedHat distrubution just because I could. I finally outgrew that phase and understand that people with multiboot machines have way too much time on their hands ;-)
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
I tried your Euro Unbiased Flights Search Engine. All I can get from it is lists of flights, linked to airline queries by null URLs. Like "London Heathrow to Madrid 7/16/05 return 7/17/05", and all others.
--
make install -not war
Hmm. they are using Linux.
Then killing it will be easy:
killall -9 OS/2
My Dad used to work in the British Air Force, where some officers would routinely refer to "Standard SOP Operating Procedures".
:)
Go on, guess what SOP stands for
(And then there was the Squadron Leader who demonstrated how to jump out of a troop carrier when the safety harness cable wasn't attached, but I digress...)
Maybe we finally see the OS/2 Presentation Manager going Open Source and be ported to *X?
Hmm, okay, yet another GUI framework. I guess IBM should've done this five years ago.
Use The Source, Luke!
At my bank, they still use OS/2 at the desktop, along with a combination of office 97. It is truly a retro experience when I have to do any banking over there!
My other OS is the MCP!
just post your pin and account number here. We'll help you keep up with it.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Well, what if you go to the ATM machine at the La Brea tar pits? (The the tar tar pits.)
I think it was almost exactly ten years ago that I purchased the only retail copy of OS/2 available in Phoenix, tried to install it, watched it go tits-up, and returned it for a full refund.
It was an open-box sale, so clearly someone else had done the same, and no doubt someone did so afterwards.
So, the question is, was there ever more than one copy available, anywhere?
Its nice and all that IBM recommends linux. Which is probably a good idea for people mad about their closed source operating system being discontinued. On the other hand it doesn't really address any of the real issues. First like it or not, OS/2's API's are a lot closer to windows than they are to linux. If I had some huge application I wrote for OS2 I probably wouldn't just up and rewrite it in java unless I wanted to spend a lot of money. Instead I would try to port it to the closest supported OS. In this case that is probably W2003/Embedded/etc. While M$ may screw you left and right, they probably won't be dropping support for windows anytime in the near future.
I am proud to have never run any of the DOS-based Windows versions (3.1, 95, or 98) on my primary machine.
;)
I bought my first computer when I started grad school in 1992. Having used Macs, DOS-only PCs, Windows 3.0, and an IBM VM/CMS mainframe, it was clear to me that I did NOT, NOT want to run Windows! OS/2 offered Mac-like OO interface combined with the cheap hardware and all the software compatibility of a PC. And did indeed run Windows apps better than windows. And OS/2 came with REXX, which was a language I knew well from my mainframe work...
From 1992 until 1999 I ran OS/2. At that point the inability to run Win32 apps was getting intolerable, so I switched to NT 4.0. That was about as reliable as OS/2 but with a much worse GUI. It wasn't until Windows 2000 that MS finally released something that beat OS/2 3.0.
Every time I had to use a DOS/Win system, I thanked Big Blue for giving us an alternative!
Yes, there are Liquid Crystal Diode displays. I'm sure you already know LED doesn't stand for Light Emitting Display.
Funny nonetheless.
Yes, I remember using them ("EMX"?) back in the mid-90's, and, being a long-time Unix-fan, was really impressed. There was a GUI debugger ("PMgdb"?) that was really nice, but I found a bug in it. After emailing the author, he sent me a fixed version within 24 hours. That was my first experience with open-source, and I was extremely impressed.
Wide migration? If OS/2 was still widely used it wouldn't be dead. A few ATM and PBX systems still use it but it's hardly in wide use anymore.
Do they run on AC current?
Even worse - it's IBM that's killing you.
You should contact the police. Or maybe hole-up in your house with an AK47 and shoot anything that moves. Or maybe both.
-- I have monkeys in my pants.
So, do people understand you when you say you're going to the AT Machine?
Only if he owes them money.
> OS/2 may not show the BSOD, but it does crash from time to time. Even in ATMs
I have seen an ATM crash and show some OS/2 logo
Anybody with a PIN number goes to an ATM machine.
Some of them have LCD Displays
Yeah, running over RDBM databases.
Personally when I go to the ATM, I fear the BSOZ.
You know, the Blue Screen Of Zeros, which details the amount of... money in each of... my accounts... Nooooooooo !
That's not too bad. You only have to look at three numbers per account - 0.00
Think of all the numbers Bill Gates has to look at. I bet he gets dizzy.
Spanish speakers save crap and just "cajero" (teller).
I see 57005 people
I think/heard that lots of ATMs and banking applications still used os/2 (well a few years ago I guess) and have a feeling that they do not switch OS every year on an ATM do they ?
:(
:( it is a shame.
Well i guess I gave it up now, but for the last few years I wanted to build a retro machine with os/2 installed, just could not get the installer anywhere here
I ran a BBS on it for years, and basically anything until i siwtched to linux.
I just loved OS/2
and in windows 95 and 98 (never used me but i presume its the same) a rouge win16 app could bring down the user interface. Sure some 32 bit stuff might keep running but its little use if the GUI is dead.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Yes, then take out $40 dollars.
The OS/2 distro is called eComstation and is run by a different company.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
And people in other parts of the world don't even call them that. They're called 'cashpoints'.
Imagine that, there's a world outside the US borders.
I like the headlone The Register used on its article: OS/2: dead again.
a gain/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/15/os2_dead_
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Heh heh. :-)
Or was that Tholenbot? I don't remember anymore...
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
OS/2 Warp was the third major 32-bit release from IBM.
OS/2 2.0 was the first 32-bit release of OS/2, and the one that started gaining popularity in the PC hobbyist community. It had the WorkPlace Shell from IBM, the MVDM (Multiple Virtual DOS Machine) subsystem that made it so good at running DOS programs, and WinOS2 (the Windows 3.x subsystem that could poke holes in the PM desktop and run OS/2 and Windows programs together "seamlessly".
OS/2 2.1 (1993) introduced a Windows 3.1-compatible WinOS2 (the WinOS2 in OS/2 2.0 only did Windows 3.0), and OS/2 Warp 3.0 (1994) introduced dial-up TCP/IP networking (SLIP and PPP) in the box as well as a graphical web browser (the original IBM Web Explorer).
The OS/2 Warp 3.0 "Connect" variant introduced NIC support and peer-to-peer network support in the box, and IBM released OS/2 Warp 4.0 in 1996 with all of that networking stuff (and two browsers) as part fo the standard package.
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
In other news, IBM will finally update their system clocks on their Executives' PCs to reflect the fact that it's now 2005 and not 1995.
Unfortunately, because it's OS/2, it took 20 minutes to do, and the computer crashed 3 times. The executives, who have a typical IBM attention span, decided it would be more efficient to just continue providing OS/2, and that it would be too confusing to switch to "Not having OS/2".
However, this IS IBM... so, in about 3 years, they'll wake up and go "Oh, right, I was going to cancel OS/2".
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
Truthfully, the "NT" really stood for "N-Ten" which was the name of the processor for which they originally wrote Windows NT.
Marketing calls it "New Technology," though.
Kriston
In the normal GeoManager, one would use the left mouse button to rubber-band-select the files to copy or move, and then use the right button to perform the actual copy/move operation.
:-)
It seems like Windows was the odd man out when it came to the assigned use of mouse buttons, at least in the x86 world in the early 1990's.
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
> Anybody with a PIN number goes to an ATM machine. Some of them have LCD Displays Do any of them have NIC cards?
Odin's Win32 support works well enough for me to get my old Palm m105 data (and PalmPix data) transferred back and forth under OS/2 via the Win32 version of Palm Desktop 3.0, and it also runs Adobe Acrobat 4.0 and the latest IrfanView fairly well (a few glitches in things like video and thumbnail creation, but it mostly works).
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
Banks still use OS/2 in lots of their infrastructure because it's fast and rock solid stable. It's well supported, in fact several very large banks still use os/2 as the backbone infrastructure for their ATM networks.
I wish IBM would port OS/2 to either Xen or build a compatibility layer to run on top of linux. Then os/2 customers could gradually move to Linux without having to recode their programs.
I use Os/2 2.11 desktops in 1992-1995 exclusively to run my IT department with Novell servers for filesharing. It was so FAR ahead of windows, it took M$ until 1997 to catch up with os/2 feature-wise and until 1999 to catch up stability-wise.
M$ only coded a small portion of OS/2, and they still retain rights to the core lanman networking components and parts of various subsystems. M$ consistently torpedoed IBMs' attempts to broaden interest or even opensource components because of the original ill fated deal. Too bad, Windows could have had a serious competitor. Instead thanks to intrigue, infighting and mishandling, OS/2 has been relegated to the dustbin. Sigh. Thanks Bill.
Many point of sale solutions use OS/2 also. Many mobil stations use OS/2 as their POS operating system. Pound for pound it's a very powerful, balls to the wall fast(it was fast on a Pentium 60, imangine it running on a P4!), has excellent networking and WAN/LAN, etc.. links and has a very rich feature set. But it is old and fairly stagnant. I suspect it's probably better as an semi-embedded OS than windows, but most people these days have no clue about os/2, so they don't use it.
IBM may not be able to make it free-and-open-source, but nothing says they can't strip out the royalty-bearing parts and give it away.
A good timetable is 5 years after the official end of service for non-server systems, 10 years for server systems.
Even better, immediately give a distribution license to a non-profit for ALL versions that aren't currently being sold "new" by anyone else and let them charge just enough to cover royalties, the cost of royalty-related paperwork, and media. For non-servers this should be Almost Zero. If you want hpfs386 with your Warp Server 3, you have to pay so Redmond will get its royalty check.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Just hook up an old Atari laptop with a cable attached to your card and the ATM will tell you what your pin number is.
Rampant Ninja related crimes these days...Whitehouse is not the exception
Smalltalk did!
I should know, I wrote the ParcPlace OS/2 VM.
OS/2 wasn't immune to the BSOD. The only difference was that in its version the "B" stood for "black". It still crashed reasoably often, although not nearly as often as Windows did at the time. Not sure how it compares to current versions of Windows, as it's been a while since I've used OS/2.
...and using a NIC card
I'm still waiting for OS/3 to come out.
Antisource - antivirus, antispam, antispyware
You're talking about the T-Rex. Its OS is z/OS (which is OS/390 to you folks who haven't kept up, or OS/360 for those folks who haven't bothered to look outside for the past 20 years).
A fair number of IBM's GUIs look like OS/2 because that was the basis of the internal UI guidelines for years. Certainly CMVC is still very OS/2-like in appearance (if not in stability), even though it's been available on other OSes for several years. But most applications from IBM that use those internal UI guidelines are not actually OS/2 under the hood, and don't have any shared code.
Regardless of the snideness regarding mainframes, IBM makes quite a fair chunk of change on them. Some number of ATMs might've used OS/2 as their frontend, but the'yre almost universally IMS on the backend (with possibly a DB2 UDB for z/OS involved somewhere, but IMS is faster than DB2z, so it's more popular for something like an ATM). It's fair to say that if you're using an ATM, you're using IMS somewhere.
Nah, it really stood for "nice tits" because the programmers loved a good set of breasts.
Hey, my statement is as well supported as yours.
Back in the mid-nineties, there was an application framework aimed at financial institutions that would use OS/2 clients after-hours to perform deriviative calculations, among other things.
If only Enron had a Beowulf cluster of these...
Rick DeBay
Back in the day, just before the SMP version was released it was tested at a vendor that had an 16 CPU computer (I think it was Compaq, and it was only for research and never released). OS/2 scaled consistently at 80% per CPU.
Rick DeBay
"AC coward"
:P
and a redundant one as well.
The GUI of an ATM is only the very smallest part of it - There is special hardware for the card and the money dispensor to be run.
Resistance angainst any for of failure and exploits is more important. A python hacker would not have a clue about the complexity of the needed transaction security when one doshes our real money. No mistake neither in favour of the bank nor in favour of the customer is allowed.
Banks have own test teams - just to make shure that is works.
Don't get me wrong: You can use Wx/python to implement - but you need real software engeneers to do it - and not just 1 python guy with UI experience.
On a side note: I allways thought that in programming language comparison not the ability of the language is important but the ability, skill and experience of the average programmer using that language. The old saying holds true: Real programmers can programm Fortran in any language.
Too bad. I have fond memories of OS/2. I was a 2.x user, of course Warp, and then 4.0 user. Oh well.
The money part: You need to track if the customer got his money and - in the event of a crash - decide on roll foreward or roll back is needed.
Ahh, and don't forget the special hardware needed to dosh out the money. And the one for the card.
All I want to make clear is that it is not a "1 python hacker" job. Which reminds me: when cash-money is involved then you need 4-eys anyway.
Shows the OP had no idea at all about how software developmend at banks is done.
IBM is willing to support OS/2 for as long as customers pay for support.
Beyond that there is Serenity Systems and the OS/2 version they sell called Ecomstation that for instance can install from CD Boot and use LVM/JFS2
Windows still won't give you anything more then basic mirroring in a non server OS.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
The ATM at my bank blue screens occasionally, and it runs NT 4.0 (Wells Fargo).
Around here we call them TYME machines. You should see the way people looked at me when I first went looking for a TYME machine outside of my home city. One of my friends asked me what year I was headed for.
TYME is a branded ATM, which I believe stands for Take Your Money Everywhere. Where I came from, the brand became synonymous with ATMs, like Kleenex is for facial tissue.
Ask someone where the nearest TYME machine is located, its a great conversation starter!