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Nintendo Quarterly Profits Down 80%
mybrainonfire writes "1UP is reporting that Nintendo had a 78.5% reduction in operating profits for the quarter. 'Speculation from the news service on the reason for the drop makes perfect sense - the GameCube doesn't have enough exclusives, first-party and third-party, and sales of GBA SP and GameCube have been declining.' Time to release more Pokemon games, stat!"
Alright guys, which one of you didn't buy a gamecube?
There is truth in humor.
Nah, it's just that children the world over have rediscovered the pleasures of the great outdoors, of playing in the street and exploring the neighbourhood. They'd rather play in the real world than a virtual one. oh... wait...
Drag n' Drop DVD Recommendations
Everyone can tell it's just Luigi in a red outfit.
..but how did the other guys do?
If this is comparable or better to the other guys' performance...
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st ory=6051
re Shacknews: "Gamasutra points out that while Nintendo is suffering from reduced profits, neither Sony nor Microsoft's Xbox division are currently making any profit."
Unfortunately, the next major Pokemon release (Pokemon Diamond and Pearl) isn't due until early 2006 in Japan, and if they follow the same pattern in the US that they have done with earlier Pokemon releases, we won't see it in the US until at least the fall of 2006.
I personally like the Game Boy because of the Pokemon games (I still like Pokemon), and the Game Cube and Nintendo DS sounds nice, but the release of Sony's PSP and the upcoming release of the XBox 360 and Playstation 3 seem to be eating Nintendo's lunch right now, and those consoles aren't even out yet. Nintendo, on the other hand, isn't coming out with their new-generation console for at least another year.
I just hope Netcraft isn't confirming anything yet.
I bet you don't have the first edition cards though.
Perhaps it would be appropriate for someone to point out that Sony and Microsoft's gaming divisions have both reported net losses this quarter. Nintendo still profited, just not as much as it expected, and they remain more profitable overall than any other gaming division. Of course, you'll never see that in any gaming publication. It's all about how Nintendo is constantly doomed. Yeah right.
From the article:
"Still, the company's performing far better than its competition. Sony and Microsoft stand to suffer ridiculous losses as next-generation moves into full swing, whereas Nintendo's likely to continue operating in the black, simply receiving less profit than before, rather than none at all."
Also, isn't it possible they simply aren't having as much profit because they are spending money on development of the new console, etc?
Some profit is better than no profit.
According ot the article, N's profits are down, but they are still operating in the black. Seems that when they're operating at 80% profit less, they still do OK.
They just haven't had a blockbuster game recently.
Even still, unless Nintendo don't do something, they'll fall by the wayside like SEGA did.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Reminds me of Sega's end.
I wonder if the market can ever support more than 2 consoles. Sega went under after Playstation came out. This may be the ultimate result (for Nintendo) of the success of the Xbox.
But far be it from anyone in the word of investor driven "growth at any cost" to acknowledge that fact.
They're still in the black, they're still making a profit, they're not going out of business.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
If you look for some hard numbers, it means that Nintendo only got about 3.75 billion yen in profit this quarter.
Sony's also annouced results today. Their game division finished the quarter with an operating loss of 5.9 billion yen. I don't know about Microsoft game division but I'm pretty sure they're not making money.
Nintendo execs. might not be dancing back in the boardroom, but I think they're happier than Sony and Microsoft.
because they waste their money on video games and computer gear.
keanmarine.com
Nintendo is not a division of an extremely successful multinational corporation: it is a multinational corporation. There is nothing to support it if it fails to show a profit.
We're worried about [i]PC[/i] gaming dying? It'll be the consoles that falter if these wonderful earnings keep up. "But Microsoft has millions of dollars, they'll never go bankrupt!" No, but nor will they keep a gaming division going that is continually in the red. It's bad business. Same goes for the other console manufacturers.
I wonder which console they would support more if they went software only (not counting handhelds)? Playing Zelda and Mario on an Xbox360 and/or PS3 would certainly be weird...but then again, I do have Sonic the Hedgehog for the Nintendo Gamecube :P Maybe Sega and Nintendo will band together and create an open/standardized console format and make proprietary consoles obsolete??? Hey...I can still dream can't I? ;)
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
yup. 'twas flamebait.
/shrug.
You see. I am now flaming. Ergo, Your comment was flamebait. I suppose I could have been nice, though, and just moved on past your flame, but here I am. Making idle conversation about how clearly your post was flamebait.
Guess that means I, too, should be modded as flamebait. Yup. I dunno, though. I may be treading water into "troll" section.
Deja Vu
n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.
The drop in sales must be due to.... piracy... oh, wait..
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Perhaps Nintendo will just keep making a little bit of profit for the next ten years, while Sony and MS's debt grows and grows and eventually devours them? Oh wait, that's right...M$ made $38 billion last year even with the hardware loss :(
...still might happen to Sony though. Prepare for the Nintendo comeback in 2015!!!
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Netcraft confirms that not even open sourcing a Beowulf cluster of Gamecubes running Hurd can stop them from becoming the next Apple!
Nope, not all. Now a Troll on the otherhand.....
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
So your saying that Nintendo's small amount of content is better than the crap on the other systems? lol...sorry, couldn't help it ;)
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
* Gamecube not competitive enough with PS2
The hardware's superior, where's the software? Looks like Nintendo scared too many developers away with their previous N64 policies, and now they don't have the install base to attract enough anymore.
* Nintendo DS too bulky compared to PSP
This is a load of crap. My husband owns both, he's a professional game reviewer for a major magazine (print, not web). Guess which one fits in his jeans pocket? I'll give you a hint, it's not the one that attracts dust from 20 meters, is so expensive you're constantly nervous about scratching or dropping it, has constant hardware problems (his has a broken UMD latch but no dead pixels fortunately), has almost no titles, has no easy way to find other people to play wireless games with, has been delayed for made up reasons in most of the world, and has "support" in the form of patches that break anything interesting you can do with it.
DSlinux.org and Gamemaker port for the win!
* People are waiting for PS3 (Cell processor + Linux!), not GC3
I think people are waiting for a console they can actually afford that has some games they want. I've seen a good dozen HD trailers of complete or nearly so Xbox 360 games, where's the PS2 titles? Any killer apps yet? I haven't seen any. Maybe developers are having problems dealing with a CPU that has terrible integer performance and a wacky memory system with too little local memory to do a few algorithms like say... collision detection on the SPEs?
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
The previous quarter? A year ago? Ten years ago? When speaking of relative changes, without the original baseline, the figures are meaningless.
It isn't in TFA, it isn't in the posting. So it comes across like a beg for pity and/or purchases.
Sega Genesis has "Blast Processing" and Super Nintendo don't... Welcome To The Next Level, Nintendo! Hahahah!
A lot of people I know skipped out on buying a Gamecube simply because it was damn near impossible to pirate the games. IMO, you want an early success for your console? Let the games be copyable. Yeah, it'll hurt sales to begin with, but its probably the best way to stir up some interest (not to mention building up some trust among gamers) early on. If the games are good enough, most people will end up buying them anyway. You want an example, just look at the GC's current competition.
Linux on Xbox360 will probably be nicer on that triple core Power based processor too being that there are already programs designed for it's PPC cousins. It's great and all that Sony's starting to support open source and standards, but it's just so much fun putting Linux on Microsoft hardware ;P
If the PS3 is anything like the PS1 and PS2, a large portion of the first few million will be faulty machines anyway.
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
I do own a gamecube with Mario kart (I bought it for Mario Kart (-: ), no other games. I believe the games for console seem to stay behind by PC games.
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
Twilight Princess.
:)
Let's see who wins this Christmas, shall we?
I also predict a lot of people will buy the Game Boy Micro when it arrives. And there's still Nintendogs for the DS.
The Tlog - a technology blog
More half ass stuff from 1up.They post what they want,so they can bash who they want.
0 5/07/28/ap2162457.html
0 5/07/22/ap2152617.html
Sony=52Million in the Red
"Sony's game unit, which makes the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable gaming consoles, saw a 64 percent sales increase to 105.4 billion yen ($941.1 million). But the division also booked a 5.9 billion yen ($52.7 million) operating loss due to marketing and research expenses. That loss widened from 2.9 billion yen the previous year.
Shipments of the PSP, which went on sale late last year in Japan and earlier this year in the United States, totaled 2.09 million worldwide, while PS2 sales rose nearly fivefold to 3.53 million units. "
http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/feeds/ap/20
Microsoft=178 Million in the red..
"A 22 percent spike in Xbox sales narrowed the company's losses in its home and entertainment division to $179 million, compared to $340 million a year ago.
"I think that, to some degree, validates Microsoft's business model in getting into the console space in the first place," Rosoff said. "Microsoft is selling more games and fewer consoles, and that's really the business model. They acknowledged it would be expensive to get a foothold in the market."
http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/feeds/ap/20
Nintendo=In the black with a thing called PROFIT
Read there returns here.
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/annual_report.jsp
Nintendo is not going to be closing up anytime soon.They have made a big profit in seven of the past 8 quarters.Barly red in the 8 to make any diff for the year, which was deep into the black.
Sony has been hit and miss.There game part of there company has been one of the few things making any money, even tho they have to sell 2-3 times as much as nintendo to make even close to same profit.
Microsoft has only had one quater of profit sense the xbox has come out, if it wasn't because they have a big company to back it up, it would have been canned a long time ago.
I never realized Nintendo games were geared towards any particular age range. They are kid-friendly, but hell if I don't find the games just as fun as I did when I was 6. When do you become too 'mature' for Super Mario Brothers, exactly? To me, Mario Party is just so much funner than 'yet another multiplayer frag fest', but I guess that's probably because I feel more thought was put into making the game fun. (They couldn't just give you a choice of 6-10 weapons and have you run around and shoot people.)
Whenever I hear this criticism about "more mature games", it seems more a request for Nintendo to play to gamers' insecurities than anything. When I play a Mario, or Zelda, etc. game, I don't think "geez, Nintendo's treating me like a kid! Where's something that plays to my need for raw violence, bloodletting and gritty realism?" I think - gee, the gameplays really good, the game is huge, and all the best parts aren't cut-scenes. (Unlike most other games out there.) But apparently many gamers don't agree. Games have to be complicated, be badass and 'realistic', or be like movies, to be playable. Not to worry, Sony and Microsoft have got those folks covered. FPSs and sports (i.e. racing) games are flooding those platforms.
Personally, I don't see this as cause for alarm. When Nintendo's in the red, and the other two vendors are making gobs of cash (at least up until recently, MS was bleeding cash on XBox) then let me know. But hey, I'm a Mac user and so I'm quite used to people predicting the imminent death of a profitable company. :)
till Netcraft confirms it.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
From a far more informing Gamespot article here
"It also can't be understated that Nintendo saw a profit in its last quarter. By comparison, Sony Computer Entertainment today reported a quarterly loss of 5.9 billion yen ($52.6 million). Last week, Microsoft's Home and Entertainment division, which makes the Xbox, said it lost $179 million during its last quarter.
I'd take a profit over a loss any day of the week. It's also the first time Sony has ever had two back-to-back losses.
Actually we saw them at E3, filmed some of them to take back and produce our E3 video on the magazine's DVD for July.
Killzone? Yawn. Have you ever actually played the first one? It's not exactly a showstopper. Yay it looks pretty. So what? The 360 games all look on par so far. Where's Devil May Cry 4? Where's a jaw-dropping platformer like Ratchet and Clank or Jak 3? Where's an even better and more absurd Burnout? Why is Soul Calibur 3 a crappy PS2 title that looks if anything worse than the previous one?
Where's ANY ACTUAL RUNNING GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE? All we've seen are "realtime" cinematics. Whoopee. I'd like to see some actual games please.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
I'm not sure why this Anonymous Coward is adding on to my original post saying it wasn't flamebait. But, truth be told, mine was somewhat flamebait/troll. But I don't care because it's 3am and I still love my Gamecube, Nintendo and Super Nintendo.
Since they're not 'losing money' as they actually made a profit, should they still follow Sony and Microsoft's fine example, which made losses of $52.6 million and $179 million respectively?
I agree completely, I'll enjoy the upcoming Zelda title the same way I enjoyed Zelda and the Adventure of Link the first time I played them on the NES.
And on the 3rd party argument, I love that Nintendo doesn't trade quality for quantity. I may only have a handful of games for my gamecube, but each of them is a unique experience that I enjoy playing over and over.
...are the problem Nintendo has. Seriously.
:/
I'm not a fan of any of their money-spinning franchises. I don't really like Mario since it went 3D. Never really liked Zelda. I don't "get" Metroid, I can recognise some of its goodness, but I don't enjoy it. Even their few exclusives don't really float my boat (Resident Evil? No thanks!).
Whether good or bad, PS2 has the breadth and depth of range that the Gamecube could only dream of. Whether you like sports games, driving games, beat 'em ups, survival horrors, shooters, or even just strange things you won't find on another console (just look at EyeToy and SingStar, all you people who say only Nintendo innovate!), you'll find at least 2 or 3 possible purchases. Maybe only one will be good, who knows. But the point is, there's a wide choice.
Xbox gets more ports, I think. That's just a gut call by the way, I haven't checked it out in terms of titles, but certainly it seems that way to me as a slightly interested observer. The ports are usually enhanced in some way (almost always graphically at least, but things like multiplayer Tenchu for instance).
And what does Gamecube have for me? Well, I do own one. And I own one game. It was made by Sega, and it is Super Monkey Ball. I looked in my local games shop a few weeks ago for something to buy, and the only thing that I considered was Super Monkey Ball 2.
Ah well. Maybe Revolution will have more for general gamers like me...
Game dev and music blog
Did they do any serious research on how much their choice of cartridge over cd-rom, and that mini-cd-thingy over DVD have cost them?
....
I think they repeated the same mistake, in a market full with gurus
They fought piracy and they lost, obviously. Yes I think Sony won a lot, by leaving a small space for piracy.
Many people I know, bought several pirated CDs, and few original. Yet they bought nothing of Nintendo.
Just release another Smash Bros for the GC
Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
"Unlike either Sony or Microsoft, Nintendo does not have enormous financial backing from other divisions which can offset losses."
Well, if they go out of business, doesn't that set up a perfect anti-trust trial, in this case, against both? If you purposefully sell something at a loss simply to kill competition?
I mean, this isn't like the Windows with IE and bundling. We're talking about flat out sales of valuable systems at big loses.
I project that when those two cases are settled, probably 10 years from now (they'll file in 5), Nintendo will have probably made more money from Sony and MS than they ever did competing against them. Who knows, maybe they will do better than Netscape in terms of real results (breakup).
I8-D
Dear Nintendo...
I hate to say it, but I've seen this coming for a long time. Don't expect this to be a "blip"; if you don't change your ideas pretty fast, the word "profit" will soon be a distant memory. That said, it's not too late for you to turn things around. Here's what you need to do:
First, admit you've made mistakes. Not just little mistakes, but huge stonking big ones. Sticking with cartridges for the N64 was a mistake. Neglecting online gaming for the Gamecube was a huge mistake. Treating the European market like dirt was a mistake. Relying so heavily on first-party titles was a mistake. Pretty much every announcement you've made about the Revolution to date has been an expensive mistake (more on this later). Now, I don't expect you to come out and say this in public; that's not how business works. What you do need to do, though, is show through your actions that you've understood this. A few changes to your board might be a good place to start.
Now, once you've acknowledged you've made mistakes, the next thing to do is start rectifying them. First of all, for the love of god, stop dictating to the gaming public and start listening. Next time one of your people comes out and tells the world that "THIS is what gamers really want", sack them. Let's face it, it's not 1992 any more. You're not the industry leader any more and you can't drive through changes in gaming culture any more. I'm not saying you need to stop trying to do new things, but I am saying that you need to let the public and the market realities inform the framework within which you do them. There's a difference between "Innovation" and "Insisting building cars with square wheels". Learn it. Look at what gamers are buying and respond accordingly. You don't have to move exclusively into "mature" games, but you sure as hell need to diversify from what you're doing right now. Hate to break it to you, but Mario, Zelda and their ilk just don't have the brand strength they used to.
Next, realise that it's not just the public you need to listen to, but the wider industry as well. You've demonstrated a high-handed superior attitude towards third party developers for way too long. This needs to stop. They don't need you any more, but you sure as hell need them. So get down on your knees and crawl to them. Swallow that famed Nintendo pride before it does you any more damage. Find out what they want from the next gen consoles and then act on it. What you've said about the Revolution so far has been a disaster on this front. Cross-party developers don't want to be in a situation where they have to redesign games for release on your system because you've insisted on using a new control system, just because it fit what you wanted to do with a few first party games. Tell them they've got to do that and they just won't bother with you. By all means, bring out your new controller, but make it very clear, right now, that the Revolution will also ship with a dualshock-alike. Treat your third parties right and some of them will come back to you.
Next, cut the fanboys out of the loop. You've basically got a similar problem to Apple here. A minority, but a *significant* minority, of your hardcore fanbase is a walking PR disaster area. They're arrogant, spiteful and incredibly sensitive to criticism. They make a mockery of the slashdot games moderation system. They're the worst possible advert for your company. Now, you can't come right out in public and tell them to get lost... again, that's not how business works. But you can make it clear that they're no longer in the loop. Stop pandering to them in press-releases and at trade shows. These people will be giving you exactly the wrong messages. They'll be saying "OMG DON'T CHANGE!!!". All they care about is getting their next Mario or Zelda fix. Listening to them might make you feel good, but it's a recipe for disaster.
You see, what some of these people will tell you is that it's possible for you to survive as a niche player. That you don't have to play to the mainstream. This
Remember their past - it's no different than their future. It's strengths are:
- Low cost on console / handheld tech
- LOTS of cool intellectual property like Mario and Pokemon
- Appeals to younger kids who don't yet get all the killing and bloodfests competitor consoles push.
My son is 7 years old. Given the choice of consoles he is always going back to either the Gamecube in the den or his SNES (yeah, used to be mine) in his room. He needs games that require little or no reading ability and have a 'fun factor' like Mario Sunshine / World.
As long as Nintendo stays the course, parents like me will continue to choose them for their children. The Revoution - Nintendo's next console - is going to make a big deal about repackaging their older, still enjoyable, games. First person shooters and complicated racing/RPG/strategy games are out of the equation for my little boy at this stage.
Can't wait for Mario DDR on the GC!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
When I first heard what the DS was (remember, it was a secretive thing for a while, much like the revolution is now) it just brought back into my mind this two-screen kick Nintendo has been on for several years. Its a cool idea, definetely, two screens to work with, one dedicated to stats, the other to gameplay. Or a screen to keep to yourself, whatever.
Thing is though, Nintendo has never gotten it to take off, they had wanted to do it with the N64, but never got around to it. Did it with the GBA and Gamecube, but it was rarely used, even with Square giving them a Final Fantasy to promote it! Sure, it wasnt a numbered FF, but its the thought that counts.
Point is, they've wanted to do this for a while, I think we can all see the benefits of it. And so far, the DS has been Nintendos best attempt at getting the two-screen style going. Still though, there is a lack of interest. For whatever reason, good games are passing on the DS, at least for now.
Nintendo made my first video game console, and hopefully they'll make my last, but to reiterate what everyone else has said, they need to change to make it happen. Not just being different either. I say go ahead and imitate your competitor's best Nintendo, Lord knows they've imitated you. But once you've done that, improve on it in that classic Nintendo style, and you'll be console king once more!
That said though, those PSPs are far too fragile feeling to really make them that portible. Hell, I'm more comfortable carrying my iPod with me, and it cost twice as much!!! (40GB 3rd Gen, btw)
It's the games ... stupid.
Too many kiddies games, and not enough games overall.
_
\\/ are accustomed' - First Lensman
You're probably right. Pokemon and Mario are the cash cows. For good reason, though.
The 3rd Gen Pokemon games have offered exceptional depth and replay value, especially if you have a few friends that play.
Mario... Well, I guess the Mario Party franchise is going great, and so is the Smash Bros. franchise. Not that I mind playing these games either. And Mario Sunshine rocked. And Mario Kart: Double Dash. Yup.
Guess you're right. Same characters. Its just too bad that these same lovable characters keep showing up in well developed, fun video games. I mean... How is Nintendo ever going to stay in business by making fun, profitable video games.
And Yup. Gamecube is trounced by both the PS2 and the X-Box when it comes to hardware. Yup. 'cept the 'cube is far more capable than the PS2 and only slightly (although not terribly noticibly) less capable than the X-Box.
Homebrew sounds great though. I really wish ANY CONSOLE would present something to this market... (Sorry, the Net Yaroze was too expensive for lower middle class folks as myself)
Deja Vu
n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.
Killzone was not real time rendered, so there's no reasonable reason to believe the real game will look anything like that.
It helps, when you wish to have a convincing argument, that you check and make sure your points arn't 2 years old and easily refuted.
First of all, having played all 3 consoles, and liking games on them all, that the Cube is only slightly less powerful than the Xbox, and stomps the PS2 in the face (might have something to do with the PS2 coming out WAY before the other two.)
Second, it also helps to have actually played the games, or at least, claiming that you played the games.
Lastly, who on planet early needs a jukebox or browser for their console? You? Your neighbour? Do they not own a cd player or computer? Are they in a market for both, only with less features and clumsier interfaces?
"Old man yells at systemd"
Stern Electronics is probably the best example I could give to refute those who think profitability is so bad.
Stern are the only remaining pinball manufacturers in the world. Midway/Williams, Gottlieb, Sega, Atari, you name it - all gone.
How did Stern survive? Well, they never were into the glitsy uber-electronic versions of pinball that Midway and Sega were killing themselves over. They simply did a simple thing: made FUN pinballs modestly.
Eventually, their competitors priced themselves out of the market or found more profitable venues (Midway's arcade division produces gambling machines). With Sony and Microsoft not even close to breaking even after all this time, you know the next generation will be even worse for them. The PS3 is practically a supercomputer in console form, and the 360 will be more powerful than just about any PC you can put together.
The ultimate question is: will they EVER turn a profit? I don't believe they will and in the meantime, Nintendo may experience a loss in sales to older, more demanding gamers, but they will continue to sail on through and IN THE BLACK.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
I'm tired of people passing off the gamecube as a kids toy, without having played some of the titles on it. Ikaruga comes to mind, if you think that a 7 year old could rock that game, you're wrong. Is Hitman 2: Silent Assassin a childs game? Nope. The number of excellent adult titles on Gamecube are substantial, more games than I can afford anyway. And even without these less well known games, the Metroid Prime series are excellent games.
If you think that Gamecube is a platform for kiddie titles, go blow someones head off and shred their body with an SMG in Hitman 2, and come back and apologize.
Also, someone in this thread said that Nintendo should stick with what their good at, handhelds. This is ridiculous. Might I remind you that the NES and Super NES are still excellent consoles, especially the Super NES.
That having been said, I also own a PSX and a Dreamcast, and will definitely be buying a Revolution.
That having been said, I really with a metal slug collection would come out for gamecube or revolution with all the games included.
The obvious answer is that the 360 is closer to it's launch date then the PS3. Wouldn't it actually be kind of strange if it didn't have more in the way of game trailers, etc, already running?
Time to release more Pokemon games, stat!
Please STFU. Pokemon RPGs are a lot more indepth then people give them credit for. Each pokemon stats wise have hundreds of varients and tactics, far more then the latest FF menu slogging interactive movie.
When you can tell me what EV, IVs and base stats are relating to pokemon and I might listen to you're opinion. Untill then you're taking cheap shots at a fantastic RPG series which happens to be easy enough to pick up and play it's marketed to kids.
I like muppets.
Nintendo has been leveraging its designers skills, attention to playability, focusing on pure fun VS cutting edge tech for a long time now. This was working in their favor but the other players kept throwing cool/hot technology at the fight until even playability itself seemed less important than slick graphics and multiplayerability elements.
Unless Revolution turns out to be the revolutionary device they expect us to believe it is, Nintendo will not be able to sustain its declining market share, until Nintendo will be no more.
Technology ramblings : Simple is Beautiful
I only hope it's not long before I get to give this speech about Wintendo as well.
I don't think it was so much the console that's doing bad as it is the games. I mean two games is all it takes to equal the purchase of a GameCube, and Ninty really wasn't showing much in that field. Just recently they released their first party baseball and soccer games, so that'll probably help next quarter's sales. But I think I should point out that this (last quarter) is NEVER a good quarter for ANY game company. Wait 'til fall.
no... it means they made 80% less money than last quarter/year/whatever..
Just because you make 50bn one year doesn't mean you should expect to make the exact same the next, I thought that would be pretty obvious?
So Nintendo's gaming division is still operating more than self-sufficiently, being able to pay all their employees and cover their costs while still having money left over.
Sony and Microsoft, on the other hand, have to basically use profits from other departments to cover these costs... bad business, but they have the money to handle it.
Nintendo dosn't aim at Kids or Adults. They aim at everyone, unlike Sony and MS who aim ONLY at adults.
It's a heavy generalization, but a good generalization if one were to be made. Nintendo makes things that are fun, straight up. Mario Party 7??? Come on, they are obviously getting positive feedback from that series. You look at XBOX and what do they have that even TOUCHES the fun of Mario Party? Some game that has a music industry-acceptable hip-hop genre with sexual/violence mandated undertones.
Some people say that Nintendo is for kids. I say that those people are the same folks that wouldn't be caught dancing because their ego and social acceptance of what's "cool" prevents them from just letting loose.
As an owner of all three consoles and reasonably frequent game buyer (1 or 2 a month), I like the choice of being able to pick the best game on whatever platform... unfortunately when games come out on multiple platforms the GC always seems to be the more expensive version, and I'd be a fool to pick it after spending money on all the consoles just so I can get the best value :-) So for Price of Persia, XIII and more recently killer7, I went for the PS2 versions because, well, it they were all about £8 cheaper than the equivalent Gamecube edition.
:-)
Does Nintendo not see the value in paring down their costs for non-exclusive titles, just so that their GC owners (and fans of their exclusives, Zelda, Mario, Pikmin etc.) can build up a library on their platform? As it stands I really don't own many GC games, but I do appreciate the big N's higher quality control (loading times? what loading times?) and would like to enjoy it a bit more often.
Mind you, this is all from a cheapass who's bought maybe 4 games in the last 4 years actually *new*, and all the rest second hand
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Oh man. Ok, lets go over some numbers.
Lets say Nintendo has operating costs of 100 million dollars. (A very convenient, round number.)
Last year, their theoretical income was 300 million. Giving them a profit of 200 million.
80% of that profit is 160 million. So, for their *profits* to be down 80% from last year, their income would have to be 140 million.
They are not losing money, they are making less profit. In fact, unless their drop in profit is greater than 100%, it is *impossible* for them to be losing money. Get it?
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Let's face it, Nintendo applied the "we'll give consoles at a loss, and overcharge for games" model long before Sony or MS were anywhere near interested in consoles at all.
/. booing MS and cheering a far worse monopolist.
So Nintendo's case in an anti-trust lawsuit would be... what? "Your honour, they did the _exact_ same thing we did, but took a bigger loss"? I think the judge would have to call a recess just to stop laughing.
Plus, it's sorta ironic, that what goes around comes around. And I don't just mean dumping prices on hardware. Nintendo, for all its other merits, was a far nastier monopolist than MS when it was at the top.
Anyone else remember the exclusivity contracts they made developpers sign? No, I don't mean the _nice_ MS way of "we'll give you a big wad of cash if you give one exclusivity on this one game for a year." Nosiree, bob. Nintendo's version was more like signing yourself into exclusive serfdom, for life. Sorta "we're the Big N, we're King. If you want to be allowed to develop for our console, you worthless insignifficant peon, sign there that you're not allowed to _ever_ publish _any_ game for any other system."
Took some desperate lawsuits to get that crap declared illegal.
Remember the anti-competitive behaviour in Europe? Yeah, Nintendo got convicted and fined as a monopolist over here. Not only that, but they cheerfully continued doing it during the trial, on the explicit assumption that they'll make more money out of it than the EU can fine them. Much to their surprise, the EU had a nastier bite than Nintendo estimated. But still, it's the kind of "we know we're breaking the law, but you can't stop us" behaviour that we condemn Microsoft for.
So I find it sorta strange to see much the same gang on
Either way, I'd find it bloody hillarious if Nintendo filed an anti-trust lawsuit. It would be like seeing Microsoft filing anti-trust against someone. _That_ surrealistic.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
We chose X-Box because it had the best graphics, and many of the games we happened to want were the NON-exclusives ... so we chose the console that played them best. If we were choosing on games alone we would have been torn between the GC and the PS2. It was definitely the console stats that put the GC out of the picture, even though we love Nintendo games (especially Zelda:Windwaker and Smash Bros). The HDD in the X-Box was also a deciding factor, I'm sick of paying for memory cards.
It happens that I've modded my X-Box recently, but that was mostly because Microsoft support for a particular problem was more expensive than getting the X-Box modded (which fixed the problem). I now love X-Box Media Center and StepMania, but my husband and I have spent 17 hours in the past week playing Pokemon inside an emulator on the X-Box! We've come to the conclusion that we prefer Nintendo games, especially now that we have a little one in the family, so our next console will be a Nintendo. I'm hoping that this time they'll learn from their mistakes and bring out a real competitor, not the child-targeted system they made last time. I think they forgot that (most) children can't afford a console, it's the teenagers and adults that it has to be marketed to.
Clever signature text goes here.
When you start trying to peek up Princess Peach's dress, rather than actually playing the game? ;)
Play Paper Mario.
(If you've played it, you'll get this.)
"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."
Curiously enough, the most "mature" - in terms of scary, frenzy and splatterhackfesty - games I know are from the Resident Evil series on Nintendo GameCube. I recall they've even got some exclusives in that. No? :-) .
Anyway, it's tough to get any more "mature" than that. Play that time of game longer than 5 minutes and you get an heart attack. No thanks, I'll stick with Viewtyfull Joe, that's just enough exitement for me
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Easily copiable game isn't enough.
You also need good marketing.
Sony Playstation : Easily copied CD-R + Good marketing - was a sucess.
Microsoft X-Box : Copiable and Backup-to-disk games + Complete marketing invasion - was a success
Sega DreamCast : Games copiable out-of-the-box (not even needed to mod-chip the unit, just burn'n'play) but almost invisible marketing - was not as successful as concurrence, mostly because the developper listened to the PS2 hype and stoped producing DC titles and waited for PS2.
On the other hand, with such an easy burn'n'play + good general purpose accessories (mouse + keyboard), DreamCast is having a very good afterlife with a lot of homebrew games/softwares developped.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
AFAIAK the BIG-N are still sitting around on a substantial pile of cash (billions)... i think they should've bought Sega when they had the chance but what do I know!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I have owned most the consoles over the past 20 years, so not a fanboy of anyone in particular. But I have had more fun gaming in my past 4 months of GC and 6 months of GBA owning than I have done in the past 3 years of PS2 owning. Its not the quantity of games, it really is the quality, and I think this is where Nintendo excel.
We are not 6 years old any more nintendo!!! And 6 year olds do not have money, 24 year olds have money
No, 24 year olds don't have money. 30-50 year olds have money. And we decide which games our 6 year olds buy. We get the ones that are fun and age appropriate. And Pokemon rules.
Handhelds are not only consoles, they're the BEST consoles! So if they're good at handhelds, I doubt they will die out as a console manufacturer. :-)
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
The XBOX only has the best graphics until you take framerate into consideration. I think I've had enough of the stuttery sound and graphics from my own one to be completely sick of it. I have perhaps one game (out of the ten) which doesn't experience any noticeable slowdown while running, and that's Kung Fu Chaos.
Meanwhile over in GameCube land, I only have one game which experiences slowdown, and it's a shitty EA game. None of the titles I would consider "real" releases have the problem.
That being said...
The XBOX makes one AWESOME media player with XBMC installed on it. :-)
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
It's so funny watching the console fanboys fight. They seem to forget that these are just companies we're talking about, not tribes.
This is a competitive free market: if company A does well, it spurs company B to do better, and all consumers gain, irrespective of whether they own a console from company A or B.
More expansive article here If you read the article, it tells you "80% decline," but that's a lie. If you actually do the math, a 3.75 billion yen decline to 13.72 billion yen of operating profit is obviously not an 80% decline, and in fact what actually happened is a decline TO 80%. Likewise, they had a 14% drop in sales, netting 70.7 billion yen.
Now, let's look at Sony and Microsoft's numbers (linked article last paragraph). Microsoft lost more money than Nintendo made in profit. Sony lost about a third as much as Microsoft, but they're still in the red! Where's the front page "Sony's losing money! So's Microsoft!" articles?!
Good lord, no wonder why everyone thinks Nintendo's doomed: the media has it out for them! Why didn't they report on Sony or Microsoft's losses, let alone why didn't they check their numbers/headline/article before posting it?! Seriously, Nintendo has an uphill battle next generation, and it's mostly because the media puts them in a bad light like this.
I think you've hit it on the head.
Nintendo has lost ground because it's being perceived as a 'kids' console. While that's not a bad thing, you are not going to capture the midlevel market who buys more games and sustains your platform.
Lego Star Wars has been a huge hit right in Nintendo's sweet spot and they didn't even release the game on GameCube.
'Revolution' has that Sega 'DreamCast' stink all over it. sad.
Nintendo is not a division of an extremely successful multinational corporation: it is a multinational corporation. There is nothing to support it if it fails to show a profit.
WRONG, that doesn't affect anything. Although they don't have any other divisions to rely on, they have owners, probably mostly institutional investors where they are part of a portfolio. The chances that a company will keep on feeding a currently loosing division in hopes about it turning a profit later on is about the same as long-term investor keep feeding a currently loosing company in their portfolio. It's exactly the same kind of risk/gain calculations behind the decision in both cases. Besides, I'm sure Nintendo have savings to keep them going for quite a while without a profit anyway.
In fact, I would say that Nintendo is better of than Microsoft's X-Box Division in this case since Nintendo is concentrating on one thing and has a track-record of succeeding in their business over and over again. Their shareholders believe in Nintendo as a game company and have invested in them as such.
Microsoft on the other hand has so far only lost money in the gameconsole arena and because of their widely diversified business areas, they likely have many shareholders who rather would have them scrap the X-Box division and focus more energy on other areas which they believe in.
They said it not me... ??
:) and thats without looking into the Sony figures..
http://theinquirer.net/?article=24988
Interesting figures though -- things dont seem so bad now
To note another few companies the inq shows: Activision made a loss this quarter too -- it would appear that Q1 is always a bad year for VGs ?
Source: http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/mar20 05/sb20050331_4850_sb040.htm
While I'm no expert on the subject, I'm afraid I'm going to have to challenge you on a fact or two....
Stern Electronics, the 80s manufacturer of arcade games (including some pinballs), is not the same thing as Stern Pinball, although Gary Stern was involved with each of them. Stern Pinball is what used to be Sega Pinball, and before that, Data East Pinball. It's a pinball division that's changed hands, and been renamed, a few times. It doesn't make sense to say that they've "survived" all this time; only recently have they become an independent company, bought off Sega by Gary Stern (who had been an employee).
Stern Pinball, in whatever form, has never known for making the best tables. When Williams (who also owned Bally) was in the market, they were king. When they left the market, dismantling their pinball division and firing several star designers including Pat Lawlor (Addams Family, Twilight Zone), that basically meant no one was making pinball games anymore.
Gary Stern saw the opportunity to get into the market. Stern seems to genuinely love pinball, and so has more than a monetary motive in buying the company. Without Williams in the market, he saw that it was possible to make a profit, if he were the only real pinball manufacturer in the world. He's in a very precarious position, however -- if someone else starts making pingames, he could go under easily. Fortunately for him, that seems unlikely.
On to point two:
The PS3 and X-Box 360 will certainly be more powerful than the current generation of machines. But there is an amazing amount of hype flying around concerning them right now. In light of the promises made concerning the PS2 and X-Box back at their release, I'm taking whatever either company says with a three-ton grain of salt until the systems are actually released and the play of their games can be assessed.
Point three:
I'm not certain that neither Sony or Microsoft's game division will not make a profit. I'd put more money on Sony than Microsoft. Nintendo is not in as much trouble as the article seems to suggest -- reading the original article sources makes it clear what happened is that Nintendo had a large R&D charge this year, probably from development work on the Revolution.
go buy Meteos for the DS. it's easily the best title out there for this game.
sure the DS had a slow start in the software department, but it's just now starting to hit it's stride (while the PSP camp is currently suffering through a drought for new titles...)
s/game/system/
ugh.
DS + more games == more monies.
The DS is nothing more than a novelty at the moment. Hardly a serious gaming platform [though it could be].
Maybe they have to lower the license costs for developers or open up more...
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Yes, it's hard when it is illegal for video rental stores to rent out games in your country.
Lets see now...
If you read the article it says that they are paying for all the R&D of the PS3, Cell, and the PSP. This year! The PS3 hasn't even sold one unit yet. So, given Sony's track record of a new console every 5 years or so, they are on track to do very well.
Microsoft can also run at a loss for a long time as noted, but I see their vision as something totally different. I see them trying to make future XBOXes more than game consoles, in that they will start to make them full computers. It only makes sense to me that they want to eventually crush out Dell, HP, IBM etc and make hardware. This would greatly reduce their software expense, in that they would only have to "fully" support their own hardware. The first step for them was to just get a console out there, the second was to make it radically different than a normal PC, the next will be to put a light version of Windows on it, then Office, then have it use emulation to run any "legacy" stuff, and the migration has begun. Now could Dell or someone produce the hardware for them? Sure, but knowing Microsoft I can see them wanting to own that business. So if this is Microsoft's long term goal, then I can understand them taking huge hits now.
As for Sony, they too might be going after that market, but at a much slower timeline. I could see them going more for the livingroom hub type of device. Currently their HUGE advantage over the XBOX360 is that they will use HD-DVD's and by bundling them with the PS3, they all but assure themselves of Blue-Ray becoming "THE" standard in DVD-HD. That alone would make taking a loss for a short time worth it. They don't want another BETAMAX on their hands, and the PS3 helps them avoid that.
It is my guess that the PS3, and Sony in general will standardize on Linux as the OS of choice in the future and hope that all apps are web based, so that vendor lock in will not be an issue.
Time will tell, and as far as Nintendo, they will be fine. Their market will be kids under 12, and families with multiple kids who will only own one console. They just need to not loose focus on that market and have a somewhat competitive device.
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Nintendo's profit has dropped $120 million, while the revenue has dropped $102 million. While Nintendo's sales have dropped in the last quarter, that is not why their profits are going down. If you are going to use the argument that they aren't selling as much as they did last year then you should see a larger fall in revenue than profits as you take the unit production/marketing/logistics/etc. costs out of the total revenue costs, leaving you with profit.
What was posted was a 1.2:1 decline for profit:revenue - something that is very bizarre to begin with. You should be seeing things like 0.5:1 decline if sales were the primary cause. Even if you get a 1:1 decline, you're sitting pretty as your investment/production/etc. capital is returning double what you invested. This 1.2:1 decline should indicate only 1 thing, Nintendo is spending more.
They are gearing up for the next console generation, that is all.
Wow, someone woke up cranky and forgot to bring their sense of humor with them when they left the house today.
Is it time for num-nums and a nap for someone already?
Money talks.
Anyway, it's the end of the generation where profits are always generally down, and they are supporting the DS/GBA(sp) and soon to be released GBA micro PLUS the fading GC. Also they upped thier R&D for the Revolution by something like 39% and that doesn't come free. Noone makes and article when sony and MS are unprofitibal with thier game consoles, which is every quarter. Just support Nintendo this and next gen, or get ready for a pretty crappy console arena, lacking any innovation whatsoever.
Ubuntu- Linux for human beings.
A 20% loss is not the end of the world.
Yes, the headline is wrong. It's not 80%. It's TO 80%.
According to this site here Nintendo is the only games company still making a profit at the moment and in Japan the DS is not far off selling more units that the PS2 and the PSP combined! Admittedly the link is a Nintendo fan site quoting Nintendo sales figures, but Nintendo can't lie about these numbers without causing problems with its shareholders.
I just don't understand why everyone thinks Nintendo is at death's door. Thanks to Hiroshi Yamauchi's legendary control of the purse strings nothing gets spent unless they're sure it will turn a profit. IIRC the GameCube has never actually sold at a loss except for one time when they cut the price to boost sales. Nintendo is extremely good at designing hardware that won't cost them a fortune in R&D and sell at a loss in retail.
Just because Nintendo doesn't have Halo, GTA or any of the other blood letting franchises that apparently "mature" people want to play it doesn't mean they aren't still shifting hardware and making a decent profit.
Personally I think the press has it in for Nintendo and the DS at the moment because they spent so much time hyping the PSP which has had like 3(?) good games so far. They can't stand to see themselves exposed for the corporate shills they are who hype anything that has an advertising budget attached to it.
The Gamecube for most of this year so far has been lacking games, and it's known. However this doesn't mean "Nintendo's dead" It's just not getting the games right now. The rest of this year will likely be Massive earnings compared to this section because We have a couple Mario based games, as well as The Legend of Zelda being released on the GameCube.
There is also some highly anticipated games coming out for non Nintendo properities such as Geist and such. But for the most part Nintendo has been the main supporter of the Gamecube and that's what has hurt the sales. It's still a decent system, but hopefully Revolution will get more third party support.
Because a 2 party game war with Microsoft and Sony as the leaders is just scary. Neither of these companies have proved they are about the consumer, rather about their monopolies (with MPAA actions from Sony and Microsoft's money lust)
I'm sorry, but i've looked all over the internet, even in the original Reuters article and it IS a 80% drop.
Quote from Reuters' article: Nintendo's consolidated operating profit for the April-June first quarter fell to 3.75 billion yen ($33.35 million) from 17.47 billion yen a year earlier.
I wouldn't mind you in my head, if you weren't so clearly mad -Lews Therin Telamon
Wasn't the GP talking about an increase in maturity?
No No NO! Don't you get it?! Nintendo needs to stop investing all their time in creating new gameplay, and instead use it creating new characters. I want nineteen separate 3rd person shooters that are different only in their artwork. I want to play lots of hallow games, each one in a completely new and under developed universe. I want so many unknown characters flying across my screen that I'll never develop any sort of emotional connection with them.
.http://www.classicgaming.com/tmk/mariopedia/...th at couldn't possibly be an asset when making games. Maybe they should hire some more marketing people, so they can get an appropriate number of young female characters with huge breasts and large anime eyes. I mean...an overweight italian plumber? Are we supposed to take this stuff seriously? How about something believable like a genetically engineered super soldier that runs around outer space and shoots stuff. Now that's a character for the ages.
I don't know why Nintendo wasted two decades carefully creating a huge, detailed, and vibrant universe
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Only difference is thayt both MS and Sony can compensate those losses with the money from their other businesses. Nintendo can not. Even if Sony Computer Enterntainment made losses and Nintendo made small profit, Sony could still pour more R&D in to their consoles and games than Nintendo could, since Sony as a whole would propably be making a lot more profit than Nintendo would make.
Or what about MS? They are making a metric assload of money on Windows and Office. And some of that money will get funneled to Xbox-developement. Even though Xbox itself made a loss, it doesn't matter much in the greater whole.
So what if if SCE had a loss, whereas Nintendo had a small profit. Does that mean that Nintendo is annihilating Sony in console-business? Doesn't look like it from where I'm standing.
Fact is that Nintendo used to be #1 in console-business. And in a short time, they were pushed to third spot. If I were a Nintendo-fanboy, I would be worried.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
We're still operating in the black. Maybe you should spend your time writing to companies who are actually losing money.
Regards
The only one of the three console makers who is turning a profit.
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
People seem to miss the fact that of any company Nintendo has been able to evolve on a scale the likes no one will likely ever match. They started life as a PLAYING CARD manufacturer for goodness sake! They then made Game and Watch. Then into controllers and consoles, with numerous other neat side quests along the way. This company is build around evolution and innovation, and they are the most profitable of the current console manufacturers and I would venture to say the most profitable on licensing too.
The Licensing is what is hurting them right now as they are missing a lot of developers on the GC/GBA/DS. The Revolution is supposed to make development more open and less costly (waay less costly than to develop for the 360 or PS3) so this too may turn around in fairly short-order. Hardware-wise they are raking in cash... profitable cash. Sony and MS are still losing money on each console (the slimline PS2 is the only one arguably profitable).
I see Nintendo breaking down all the hype of the PS3 and 360 and getting into many more family homes than the 360 or PS3 as they are more geared toward the college/bachelor sports/FPS crowd. Nintendo will be the one young families cling to as it will offer the 20-30 year old parents the nostalgia of old favorites, their kids some solid old and new gaming and the parents the allure of new titles and solid, easy to setup and use hardware that Nintendo is known for. I even see most of Sony and MS's target audience having the discretional income to also pick up a Revolution so the install base will be quite massive.
Nintendo will remain profitable and soar quite mightily in a year or two's time. Far from on the ropes... just have to mash the "A" and "B" buttons some more till 'ol Mac gets up.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
Fanboy my ass, punk.
I'd be willing to bet i was a multi-console gamer while you were still in diapers, so give it up.
Anyway feel free to list some A-list titles that will be coming out within the next year for the PSP.
(good luck with that btw.)
Face it - the PSP is an excessivly expensive movie player at this point.
I love the gamecube but you mention: "You look at XBOX and what do they have that even TOUCHES the fun of Mario Party?" if you do own an xbox, look for the game Fusion Frenzy and check it out. It is a mario party style game that is a lot of fun with some sweet minigames.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Another problem with console games in the market today: Most of those titles you listed are sequals (many of them 3rd or 4th sequels). The real question we should be asking, where is the innovation? Nintendo has consistently shown innovation, and MS and Sony consistently get rewarded for regurgitating the same crap.
Mario was birthed from the original coin-op of Donkey Kong back in 1981.
Slashdot: where repeating an article in a post is "+5 Insightful"
The single reason I still prefer _Ocarina of Time_ to _Wind Waker_ is the music. The music from WW is simply not very memorable, whereas I can easily remember half-a-dozen songs from OoT, which I played 5 years ago. Hell, I've never gotten the theme from the starting zone out of my head; it just keeps playing and playing and playing and playing.
That song's been in my head every day for 5 years. My GF knows it. All my friends know it. I can't even remember the name of it, but I can remember it and I can remember the scenes of the game that used it.
Never mind the better graphics, camera, battle system, art style (loved it, btw), and everything else (except sailing time, blech) in _Wind Waker_. OoT is nearly unplayable to me after playing WW, but the damn music won't get out of my head, so I still prefer it more (and yes, I did replay it after playing WW, so its not simply nostalgia).
I always get the shakes before a drop.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
It could be in comparison to the same quarter a year ago.
GameCube seems too designed towards children, and I think that's the problem and a big factor as to why there aren't many good games.
Let's see, there's:
Resident Evil 4/Remake/Zero
Metroid Prime 1 & 2
Eternal Darkness.
5 good games on a system... hah.
Zelda was a joke (1. way too easy, 2. where the fuck are all the dungeons and puzzles?)
Mario Sunshine... not even a true Mario sequel.
So yeah... I wonder why..
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
Sony posted a loss in this past quarter (the first quarter in this fiscal year) and cut their projected full fiscal year profit by... get this... 87.5%.
To quote the Bloomberg article:
The Tokyo-based company said in a statement today that net income will be 10 billion yen this fiscal year, compared with an April forecast of 80 billion yen.
Nintendo, on the other hand, has not cut their full year forcast.
From the Gamasutra article the parent linked to:
Despite the apparently significant downturn in results both the company and independent analysts contacted by news agency Reuters appear unconcerned by the results, with Nintendo's share price falling by only 0.1 percent in initial post- trading. "I think the results came in pretty much as expected," said Yuta Sakurai, senior analyst for Nomura Securities. "This is a seasonally volatile industry and Nintendo's biggest games will come later in the year. They didn't change their full-year forecast, so I'm not worried," he said.
And:
Nintendo officials claim that operating profits for the whole year are expected to rise by 3.1 percent from ¥111.52 billion ($991.73m) last year to ¥115 ($1.02bn) this year.
But of course, no self-respecting, mass media, gaming site is going to report on such fiscal trivia. Nintendo, as always, appeals only to children under 12 and is teh doomed1
1up the FOX News of gaming.
Basically what the article said was while Nintendo reduced its costs, its still in the black and more importantly it said unlike Sony and Microsoft actually making money and not operating in the red, and look to stay that way even when they release the Revolution. Both Sony and Microsoft are looking to take insain hits in the push to release theirs
I dont know about you but the whole point of being in buisness is to make money, and Nintendo does that every year. A lot of the "faiilure" of other makers is not that they dont have superior systems, its that they spent way too much promoting a system that they where selling for a loss... something Nintendo has NEVER done cause they know their limits and know what happens if you dont follow them (Virtual Boy anyone?)
Alreadys the PSP is on its way out with barely a hint at any decent games coming while the DS has a slew of games that have boosted the sales in Japan well past the PSP. The revolution is poised to be a decent 2nd system that /gasp DOESNT SELL FOR A LOSS unlike the 360 and PS3 which will... so every system they sell MAKES money.
Nintendo also has a pretty hefty piggy bank that they havent even touched recently because of the fact they make a profit every year.
Nintendos far from over, they are the Apple of the gamming world, and everyone knows you can make a mint fast, but its the ones who refine what they do and do it day in day out with profit who in the end win. The PS3 and 360 can be awsome machines, but if they produce too much loss for their respective companys they will be cut loose no mater how many games they can sell and how much money their parent companys have. Losses are losses and this who game is about profits.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Now, I'm a cheap bastard who doesn't play consoles often, but if I wanted one it'd be the GC. Why? Because the GC has the best party games. PS2 suffers from having only 2 standard ports, and as flightstick manufacturers learned about the PC - only the standard hardware really gets the games. XBox is so fixated on being online, that party-games (besides the Halo series) take a back seat. Plus, XBox games are so behind-view-oriented that almost all the party games are split-screen, while GC has many of the more pleasant (but more limited) shared-screen affairs.
Plus, I already got a DVD player.
All the platform developers have potentially fatal flaws in their business plans. Sony is bent on owning a format for movies. UMD movies just scream "Betamax!" to me every time I see them. Microsoft really believes that if they can prove their platform is more powerful on paper, they win.
Nintendo's recurring problem is more interesting, and potentially far worse - they are gadget crazed, and think it's great to innovate regardless of need. The Virtual Boy was a real obvious step down the wrong road. If you could have strapped the thing to your head, maybe it would have worked, but you essentially had to set up a chair and table just right to play the damn thing. Cat owners didn't stand a chance. Of course having every game start with a warning telling you not to play too long was a bad way to inspire addictive gaming. As bad as that was, it was relatively harmless to everybody except Nintendo and early adopters.
The Game Cube, GBA connectivity was a good idea implemented poorly. I had GBA before Gamecube, so buying the cable wasn't that big of a deal, but then you got assaulted with expensive tie-in scenarios. I bought Mario Cart DD, just to get the bonus disk for use with Fire Emblem. I like Mario Cart, but certainly would have waited for it drop in price if I wasn't interested in some extra items for Fire Emblem. I also got the GBA Zelda game mainly to see the Tingle Tuner in Wind Waker.
Although Nintendo made some money off me with this scheme, they kept losing status in my mind. By the time Crystal Chronicles and 4 Swords was on the shelves, I was getting the feeling they were just cheaping me into buying a lot of crap. I'm sure I'm not the only one to feel this way. Even though I had my old GBA and the SP, the room the cube was in had poor light, so somebody would have had to suffer. Also, I'd have to buy another damn cable and I was already loving the Wavebird - more on that later - and not really wild about going back wired just to have a personal display, which is mandatory.
There was no way I was going to buy the DS. I've already got a Palm Pilot, so I'm not thrilled by the prospect of a touch screen. If you de-mystify that part, your just left with two screen of the same thing you had with the GBA. So I bolted to Sony for my handheld fix and love the PSP for all the wrong reasons - emulating Nintendo games from back in the glory years. Nintendo's foray into selling old games is expensive - one NES game per cartridge - give me a break. If for no other reason than not to have a fistful of cartridges when one would suffice - this was obvious customer abuse.
Now I don't know what the revolution controller is going to be like, but the very idea that it is going to be innovative scares me. Why? People like familiar interfaces. The best interface is a transparent one, so you can get into actual gaming. If they have some gyroscopic touch screen it's not going to be easier for me to use than something based on the basic joystick, which has been around almost as long as videogames themselves.
The worst part about deciding to be the driving force for innovation is simply that your best ideas are easily copied and you just ate all the research and development expenses for the industry. The Wavebird is great, an excellent piece of hardware, and the first wireless controller capable of playing action games well. But how long was it before you could get a reasonable copy for your PS2 - 6 months tops. Now, every console is going to have them. How about a drum interface? Cool or stupid, Sony's got it too. Thanks Nintendo, you guys are truly philanthropists!
If they would stop messing with gadgets and put more money into game development, it would be nice. It's been a really crappy summer for Cube games. Since Resident Evil 4, I'm looking for something on the Cube. Kid games? I love 'em, but where are they? Ironically, the really best Game Cube exclusives are all M titles. Maybe they should take their lumps and be the kiddie company they are alway
Between Meteos, Electroplankton, and Another Code, my DS has seen almost nonstop play. Nintendogs, online Animal Crossing, Phoenix Wright, Castlevania and Lost in Blue are just a few of the amazing looking games coming up. And all of those are by the end of this year!
This is a big advantage - gamers are used to seeing Nintendo's characters in a variety of genres, so Nintendo can innovate new games while leveraging their popular brands. Nobody else has properties like that (well, maybe a few, like Crash and Megaman). Bungie couldn't release Master Chief Cricket, but Nintendo can have Mario Tennis, Mario RPG, Mario Golf, Mario Kart, Mario Sunshine, Dr. Mario, Paper Mario, etc. - and they're all solid games, so the brand doesn't get diluted (unlike many attempts to branch out where the spin-off games quickly gain reputations as tepid crap).
So Nintendo has found "freedom to innovate" through clever branding.
Nintendo's big problem is the same as alot of companies. Namely stale IP. Comic books, movies, television shows have sequels ad nauseum. Nintendo has been using the same half a dozen game lines to justify 20 years and 4 home consoles worth of gaming. In the case of the gamecube, the games are often simply dressed up versions of older games with no really new core mechanics.
But as I said, this is a universal issue with major media companies merging. We are destined to see the same pop culture of the last 20 or 30 years recycled over and over for quite a while. Case in point: why are the ninja turtles having a resurrection? Why is James Bond still around? Why are they working on a Transformers movie?
That kind of parallelism, while costing the world a variety of culture, generates alot of profit in several crossover markets (toys, comic books, CD's, clothing, etc..).
I think something is very, very wrong when we base a company's perceived future viability not on "does it have money?" or "is it making money?", but apparently solely on "does it have a big corporate sugar daddy to support it regardless of its fortunes?"
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Ok, I'll stop for a moment and bite your flamebait: but make it very clear, right now, that the Revolution will also ship with a dualshock-alike
You really need to get over yourself. The dual shock is hardly anything close to the "perfect" controller for 3D gaming, and there's a massive audience out there that would rather slaughter Nintendo than accept another controller that's still geared towards 2D platformers.
Anyway, moving on. The public in general doesn't seem to really grasp the fact that Nintendo HAS ZERO INTEREST in trying to win over the folks like our Anonymous Coward above. You could bash this into people's heads all day long, but people still seem to think that Nintendo is in the market to compete with Sony and Microsoft. THEY'RE NOT!
Nintendo is looking to serve a niche market of gamers that want something different than what Microsoft and Sony are offering. By doing so, they are guaranteeing themselves a unique and guaranteed fan base. Nintendo isn't looking to win back 90% market share. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
Despite the tone of this article, Nintendo still remains profitable, and is the ONLY company of the big 3 in gaming that is! Sony and Microsoft make money elsewhere to fund their losing habits. Nintendo doesn't! Why should Nintendo want to change their business strategy when it is the only one on the market that is actually working??? SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME!
A community-oriented lyrics site
You misunderstood the article. The division which handles the Playstation has been constantly in the red, while the profits from Sony's other division give them the money to operate at a loss and still turn a profit overall. The article is saying Sonys overall profits are down, which is worrying because their playstation division is going to go even further in the hole when the ps3 comes out, because of insane manufacturing costs and selling at a loss. What's to keep them afloat?
Sorry, their overall profits aren't in the hole yet, they've just dropped *alot*
Nobody's mentioned this? Whatever Nintendo's put into R&D for the Revolution...That "downloadable back catalogue" feature is going to sell a system or two.
I have no idea what the numbers are. But the strategy is genius. In addition to fighting to be the second or third console in every household, be the only console for people, like myself, who don't buy them. I can't be the only twenty-something who gave up the rat race after SNES and weekend rentals.
They might not hook the MTV audience from mid-teens to college, but the risks in that segment are high. Using nostalgia as a gateway to untapped markets is brilliant. To say it "makes up for" development costs is hasty since I have no concept of the scale involved, but the machine is going to sell itself.
you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
Prime UID Club
Hm.. You have a point! But Again this is probably due to Nintendo's "zone" policy. Eg. here in our country (non-us) we can't get the latest games because Nintendo doesn't release it over here before certaint titles are sold. I'll try Meteos. Thanks for the tip.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
You misunderstood the article. The division which handles the Playstation has been constantly in the red, while the profits from Sony's other division give them the money to operate at a loss and still turn a profit overall. The article is saying Sonys overall profits are down, which is worrying because their playstation division is going to go even further in the hole when the ps3 comes out, because of insane manufacturing costs and selling at a loss. What's to keep them afloat?
Sony game division posted a loss this quater. They generally make more money then any other division. The reason this quarter is different is the R&D costs of the PS3. They generally do no lose money. Their PS2 costs are very low and they have been making a profit off the hardware for some time.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
If Nintendo is the new Sega, what are MS and Sony? Nintendo is the only one making profit (Although the other companies have other divisions which are profitable.) From what I remember Sega was having some big loses. Microsoft and Sony and third party developers are dropping support for the other current gen consoles right now too, its not exclusive to the GCN. If you look at the numbers, you'll see that if you compare the drop in Nintendo's profits with their drop in revenue, theres a discrepency. You can see Nintendo is spending MUCH more. However, they don't sell their consoles at a lose, (the gamecube was a few dollars at one point, but mass production should've fixed that by now) therefore it must be R&D on their new console which is eating into their profits.
If you look at Nintendo's lineup for fall-winter, the only really super exciting game for the gcn is zelda, but that alone will sell a hefty amount of gamecubes. Now, with the DS, they have lots of lots of games coming out, alot of which are online enabled. MarioKartDS (online) Metroid Hunters, Animal Crossings (online), nintendogs, a new super mario bros, a new zelda, and a bunch more I'm too bored to list. This is just a seasonal drop, more than usual because of R&D costs. Nintendo is no where near the situation that Sega got themselves into.
For Kids By Kids, modelled after the racially insensitive clothing line FUBU? ...Kids making the console games in 3rd World Nintendo sweatshops, so that other kids can play them. There's a certain sick irony in that which lets me know that one day it will become true.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Countries outside of Japan and the US really do tend to get shafted in terms of game releases.
It's quite weak imo... i have many friends in europe who are hardcore gamers who usually resort to importing (but that can get expensive)
This is a useless article. You really need to know if this surprised the market; maybe Nintendo -- and the market -- were expecting the drop in profits for the quarter. If I knew where to get a Nintendo stock quote from the Nikkei...
One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.
Just yesterday, I just picked up Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls, for my GBA. I buy about one new GBA game every 2 months. I don't have a GameCube.
VOTE!
It's "your" not "you're".
Animal Crossing? Haha.. ok..
Mario Kart? Hm, played it already on SNES and N64 - nothing has changed much since.
Pikmin? Eh.
Dark Alliance - better on PS2, as is Soul Calibur 2.
Mario TENNIS? No.
Monkey Ball.. it's okay, but nothing great.
Most of those games are mediocre at best.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
Agree - we're talking about a decline in profits, not losses. The previous quarter the year before they made 17.47b yen and now down to 3.75b. The 17b figure was up a stunning 140% from the same 2003 qtr. Management kept their full year forecast (3.1% profit) the same so the decline wasn't unexpected by the home office.
Remarkable how people want to write this company off. They may not be bleeding edge but they know how to run a game business.
Pokemon RPGs are a lot more indepth then people give them credit for.
But it's still bloody Pokemon.
How are the other two of the big three doing with their video game divisions?
See, this is the obligatory slow year. The new consoles are coming out soon. Developers are shifting focus and resources to them. Not many games, period, are coming out at all. This has pretty clear implications on sales for current-generation hardware.
As for the DS, development still hasn't revved up for the handheld yet. But Nintendo plans to do just that later this year, with the start of their online initiative.
So forgive me if I'm not ready to buy the age-old "Oh noes Nintendo is dying!" wolf cry quite yet.
Glog!
if we continue to judge by the past, we could also say that the x360 will fail in japan, and the revolution wont do much better than the xbox1.
the fact remains that this is a NEW generation. but some people... some companies learn from their mistakes. i think that all the companies have learned valuable lessons with the current generation. nintendo knows that they have a solid stockpile of intellectual property that will serve them well. MS knows that size does matter [lol], and that the japanese market is crucial. sony learned that graphics can be everything, and a sleek online play strategy is vital as well. if sony fails to deliver, then they fail. i dont see either of the companies repeating their various mistakes; they will obviously make new ones instead.
so it comes as no surprise that people still think of Nintendo as a PG-13 and under company.
Wouldn't a reputation for content that is safe around your son or daughter be an advantage in the face of the "Hot Coffee" scandal?
You dont need a modchip to do the IPL injection exploit. A specially crafted file on an SDRAM chip, and a gameshark code to trick the cube into executing it, does the exact same thing.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I've seen a good dozen HD trailers of complete or nearly so Xbox 360 games, where's the PS2 titles? Any killer apps yet? I haven't seen any.
PS3 devkits have only been available in extremely limited numbers for a couple of months. The ones that are out there are like pre-alpha systems.
Maybe developers are having problems dealing with a CPU that has terrible integer performance and a wacky memory system with too little local memory to do a few algorithms like say... collision detection on the SPEs?
Huh? It just seems to me that time-and-time again it's PC and Xbox developers who are complaining about the next-gen architectures.
Seriously, Pikmin is an awesome game. The presentation is a bit kiddie, but it's original, complex and a lot of fun. A sort of RTS-Puzzle game.
You can always hide the box and play it when no-one else is around if the bright colours embarass you.
I quit!
And that should matter because...
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H.L. Mencken
I was playing that the other night actually. Not bad, but it doesn't touch Mario Party.
You bought a virtual boy?
Talk about devotion.
What are you going on about? The Xbox looks like advanced piece of technology?! It looks like a garish piece of crap! The GameCube is a small, modern looking system. I personally love mine. Just finished Resident Evil 4 today actually...
http://marathon.bungie.org/
http://halo.bungie.org/
Yeah, theres no detailed backstory at all in Bungie games...
Don't forget Pikmin 2. Nintendo should have made a fortune on product placement whoring alone!
The first object you find is a D Cell Duracell brand battery (complete with a fully copied label).
Actually, the headline IS correct!
According to this article Nintendo's profits dropped from last year's 17.47 billion yen to 3.75 billion.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
Yes, way to take the high road by attacking another game series to defend your own. You know you are doing the exact same thing the guy did who posted the articile...right? I played pokemon...seriously, you are giving it way too much credit. You weaken monsters you don't have, then try to catch them. When a certain monster of a certain type appears, you call one that is of a type that can kick its butt. It is really freaking simple, it's like rock, paper, scissors. And as far as story goes...ugh, give me a Final Fantasy any day.
In any case, it was more of a joke that Nintendo's only selling games are from the pokemon series. It was saying how popular those games were, not insulting it...so the whole point kind of flew over your head, didn't it?
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Speaking strictly in terms of profits, Nintendo is in fact a much better console manufacturer.
Yes but for how long? MS and Sony have taken the losses in order to kill of the competition and a 80% decrease in profits means they're doing a good job of it.
Once this culling process is over they stand to make huge profits, but Nintendo will fall below the threshold level and into obsucurity.
If I had created the world I wouldn't have messed about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers
Ok, for the benefit of the doubt, we'll add those games (even though Viewtiful Joe is also on PS2). So... 9 good games. It's still not saying a lot.
I'm not saying they're bad and their games are bad, they're just mediocre compared to most other titles on other platforms.
There's a reason they no longer reign supreme. Mistakes in the past (N64) and targeting the wrong audience a just a couple of factors that have hindered their next-gen progress.
For example, their fate was sealed when Squaresoft decided to release for Sony instead (until Crystal Chronicles which.. really wasn't all that). Why? N64, while it had a FEW good games, pretty much sucked. There goes the RPG market.
Metal Gear Solids? Yep, to Sony (with the exception of Twin Snakes however many years later).
GTA? They won't touch it. THPS? Took a while...
They do have RE4 and RE0... but that's my point exactly - the epic titles that are TRULY great games just aren't really there.
I really could go on and on, but I think you get my point.
I'm not tryin to be a troll. They DO have potential - no doubt about that, and are great for offering games for children, but they seriously need to get their act together.
SNES was great, and that's when Nintendo were gods, but also looked at what they had to compete against - Sega (and sorry, Sega was horrible).
Hopefully they change stuff around when Revolution comes out.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
Haven't there been 3 consoles on the market now for 5+ years?
This 2 console market limitation must have been born out of the SNES/Genesis generation -- I just don't get it.
When *haven't* there been 3 consoles on the market at one given time (barring the crash)?
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
Sega went under after Playstation came out
Sega went under because of all the mistake they did *before* the Playstation came out. The failure of the 32x and the Sega CD led to frustration from the customers, who then decide to stop buying Sega's stuff. And then when the Playstation came out, Sega's answer was a powerful 2D system with 3D stuff hack into it at the last minute. 3 big mistake in a row is not good news for your bank account, especially in the console market, where it cost huge amount of money to fully deploy new hardware.
Nintendo on the other are not very far in terms of unit sold with Microsoft (I'm talking about world sales here) AND they actually make profit from it AND they have their insanely lucrative handheld division. Like it or not, Nintendo will still be around during the next two generation.
The software division may have made that kind of money, but the Xbox devision did not. If anything changes in the markets Microsoft is making money in, then the divisions who never make any money will be the first to suffer. You cant bank on always having billions of dollars to throw away year after year and expect shareholders to back up a money losing platform for ever.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
How come we only see bad posts for Nintendo and good posts for Sony? Even if there are bad posts for Sony, they are downplayed greatly. Is someone receiving cash on the side somewhere?
I enjoyed my Gamecube (sold it recently to pay for my DS), but you have to admit, the Gamecube looks like a child's lunchbox. Many of them are purple. It has a giant handle. It is the Duplo-LunchPail of consoles.
While the X-box and the PS2 are not shining examples of beautiful design, neither of them look like they might contain a sandwich. The PS3 looks like it might cook a sandwich, and the 360 looks like it is a sandwich, so the tables may turn.
The only way she falls into the Genetically Engineered category is maybe the Metroid Fusion storyline.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Yeah, but we certainly have the vocabulary and grammar of six-year-olds.
Furthermore, I agree with most other replies to your post: Nintendo doesn't think we're 6 years old. They think we want to have fun games that we can play with our adult friends as well as with our kids. And as far as I'm concerned, they're right.
It's hard to see how Nintendo can possibly survive as a console maker unless their next platform is pretty fucking spectacular and they loosen up what they're prepared to allow their box to run.
Yeah, because Resident Evil 4 was so kid-friendly!
Nintendo does have more "edgy" fare, it just almost always comes from 3rd-party vendors.
No, Ultra PeePee is "just.... too.... cute!"
/. but superior Irken technology will triumph.
Foolish worm babies keep posting to
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Pokemon is one solid franchise. The shows, the video games, the card games, etc. They're coherent, entertaining, challenging and appropriate for any age. It's hard for me to believe how excited my son and I get over some goofy poorly animated 2D graphics.
Don't be a moron. Those movies are PRERENDERED they aren't actual in game movies.
Go do a little research why don't you.
No, he's right. I have every console out now, and I play Playstation 70%, X-Box 20%, and Nintendo 10%. They've turned their awesome Mario and Yoshi lines towards kids. I used to play them, every one, and those games alone would sell the system for me.
But the kiddie-mario and kiddie-yoshi are just simply not fun for someone who's been playing games forever. They're clearly tailoring to kids, and while that it great, it does take them out of the market for older fans like myself. My Nintendo days are over.
You're kidding right? Those aren't actual movies of real games running on real game hardware. They are prerendered movies. There is nothing real about them at all.
Sure they look pretty but nothing new or exciting. KillZone doesn't look all that much cooler than Battlefield 2
As another poster said, they lost money this quarter only. The reasoning for their loss is understandable, and this division is by far the most profitable for Sony and has made insane amounts of money for them. Also, the PS2 has ALWAYS made a profit, from day one to today. There have only been two consoles that have sold at a loss in modern history. Sega had one and Microsoft has the other. But it is even difficult to tell with Microsoft because they hide their figures in a much larger department.
The cost to manufacture the PS3 will NOT exceed the cost the PS3 sells for given past history with Sony. Understand that Sony, unlike Microsoft will control a large portion of their manufacturing cost, and thus be able to leverage breakthroughs in manufacturing to their core profit. Much like they did in the past. Microsoft got killed by Intel and Nvidia refusing to lower their prices, and to be honest it wasn't in their best interest to do so. Granted Sony will not manufacture the Cell OR their graphics chip this time, but they will do most of the rest of the system. Heck knowing Sony, it wouldn't supprise me if they bought the technology from Nvidia and IBM, and then manufactured them in their own plant.
Lastly, you want to know what will "keep them afloat". It will be selling over priced controllers, memory sticks, hard drives, and games.
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Instead of buying a memory stick you'd rather pay $100-$150 more for the console(depending on when you got it)?
I do agree with your point about the xbox, that's the same reason I got it too.
In fact I didn't buy a gamecube for my self until after my PS2 and XBox were stolen. I haven't had any desire to re-buy them (especially the PS2 which I've already had to buy 3+ of because they keep fucking breaking)
Parent's right. Pokémon has a fair amount of strategy and combat involved.
On the other hand, the fights all look like a pink basketball attacked a walking pineapple with a musical rainbow. So, you know, you have to get past the look of it.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
TFA is in error. Nintendo's profits have not gone down by 78.5%, they have gone down to 78.5% - that is, of last year's revenues.
They actually took a 21.5% hit. Call for an investor's prospectus; if you're in the US or Japan, they'll send you a big glossy 30-page for free.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Nintendo has more franchises than any other single developer out there, except for maybe Sega. It really pisses me off when I see people saying how Nintendo relies on just their "key franchises". Really, it's this whole double standard issue that pisses me off.
Let's list some of Nintendo's franchises, shall we?
Mario
Zelda
Donkey Kong
Kirby
F-Zero
Star Fox
Wars
Fire Emblem
Pikmin
Animal Forest/Crossing
Metroid
Mother/Earthbound
Kid Icarus
Waverace
Pokemon
Pilotwings
Star Tropics
Now let's list their franchises starring the rest of their characters. Spare me the flame, they're still very good and have very different gameplay, which qualifies them as seperate games, even if they do utilize the Mario name:
Mario Kart
Super Smash Bros.
Wario Land
WarioWare
Mario Tennis
Mario Golf
Donkey Konga
Mario RPG
Now let's list some of their recent and upcoming new properties:
Nintendogs
Elctroplankton
Odama
Geist
Jam With the Band
Polarium
Mario Baseball
Mario Strikers
So, what is that? 25 franchises and another 8 brand new ones, with more promised? Seriously, do you guys ever actually do any research into this stuff? Let's go even further: how many actual Mario and Zelda games did we have this generation for the Gamecube? One Mario game and two Zelda games. Conversely, how many Jak and Daxter games? Three. How many Ratchet and Clank games? Three. How many Sly Cooper games? Two. How many Gran Turismo games? 2. Plus there are those franchise's respective spinoffs. Why doesn't any complain about this? Two reasons. One, it's Sony, who can (as we've seen) make mistakes without anyone getting upset. And two, they're good games, so it doesn't matter so much that they're falling back on their names.
So why doesn't the same apply to Nintendo? When they do release a game with the Mario or Zelda name, it's always very good, and if you look beyond those two huge properties there is a plethora of new ones just waiting for you to play them. But Nintendo gets bashed for "relying on their franchises". If you don't like Nintendo's games, just so so- I don't care, you're fully entitled to your opinion. But don't make up bullshit about what's wrong with Nintendo because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I hate double standards, and I hate people like you for propagating them.
The hardware's superior
No, it isn't. The X-Box is. The reason Nintendo can sell the GC so cheap is that it's not nearly as powerful, and therefore it doesn't cost as much to make. Don't get me wrong; I love Nintendo like family. But, look at the specs.
DSlinux.org and Gamemaker port for the win!
DSLinux is no less a cute toy than the GBA Java VM or GBA Contiki, until we have connectivity.
where's the PS2 titles?
I presume you mean PS3 titles, since the PS2 has thousands of games on the market today. That said, the PS3 has demoed roughly the same amount that the 360 has; it's just that Microsoft is better at marketing than Sony is. If you had gone to E3, you would have seen a lot of fairly one three three seven PS3 stuff.
Maybe developers are having problems dealing with a CPU that has terrible integer performance and a wacky memory system with too little local memory to do a few algorithms like say... collision detection on the SPEs?
Maybe you shouldn't guess at what part of programming is hard until you're a programmer. What you just said is equivalent to "maybe the spark plugs fire so hot that the engine block expands and grinds to a halt" - that is to say, something that sounds superficially reasonable until you know the actual tolerances involved.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Sega went out of business because they released a bunch of add-ons and consoles that sold terribly. All in all they were terrible at business, despite how good they were at making games. Sega had billions of dollars in debt and no way to make them up. Where does Nintendo fit in? Oh, you mean because you don't like the DS, Nintedo is going the way of Sega? Nevermind the millions of other people that have made the DS a sales phenomenon? Yeah, OK, I guess that makes sense....
Software progress has never been a good indicator of hardware progress. Look at what happened to the Saturn, Sega CD, Nomad, Lynx, Jaguar, N64, Neo Geo Pocket, WonderSwan, Cybiko and GamePark/GP32. All well developed finalized hardware which had dick to show for games. Hell, it even happened to the DS for a while, there.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Whoops, forgot about Mario Party. Yeah, I know it's the same thing over and over again, even I'm not happy about that, but apparently a lot of people are because each game in the series is a platinum seller. So that's 26 franchises.
I never realized Nintendo games were geared towards any particular age range.
Oh, god, yes. Demographics are a huge part of market research. Very, very few games appeal to more than three years of a kid's age; most of them only two. If your business proposal doesn't discuss what demographic you're targetting, you're immediately taken much less seriously.
When do you become too 'mature' for Super Mario Brothers, exactly?
Super Mario Brothers has entirely too much nostalgia to be seen with clear eyes. How many adults do you expect to play Spongebob, Jimmy Neutron, Animal Snap, Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon or the surprising current Nintendo #1 seller, Lego Starwars? How many six year olds do you expect in WoW, 4x4 Evo, Quake, American Idol, Advance Wars or Chess? How tired of you hearing about the new Zelda games being kid's games?
Demographics are absolutely critical to this industry. If you get a broad-acceptance game - and I can count the non-clones on that list in history on both hands (kids don't play solitaire) - then you're making a mint. But you'd better be damned able to either explain it at the business pitch of show user testing results, because that's a total holy grail; it never, ever happens in this line of work.
Ever.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Sega was bleeding red ink when they finally got out of the hardware business - Nintendo is still making a profit, and has cash reserves as well. Meanwhile, as stated many times, both Sony and Microsoft are LOSING money on their games divisions. Who's the real winner here?
-G
www.pixelstatic.com
Uhm they're one of the only game companies who made a profit this quarter. Sony, EA, Microsoft... All lost money.. Lots of money.
Nintendo didn't much for games this quarter and they STILL made a profit.
During the next few months they'll have a TON of hit games coming out.. Zelda anybody? Jump Super Stars already has over 200,000 pre-orders in Japan for the DS.
How is nintendo NOT doing fine, fucktard?
When do you become too 'mature' for Super Mario Brothers, exactly?
The moment that you start wondering what Mario Kart would be like if Mario could do drive-by's and pick up hookers.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Nintendo has had success with "dual" products before. Two in one Mario/Duck Hunt cartridge. Two in one screened gaming system. But i think with the profits lower it's time to bring this one back... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Cereal_Syste m
Designing a game to appeal to an age demographic is one thing (and good business sense), but it's another thing entirely to create a game that will appeal only to that target demographic. i.e. Mario appeals to kids, but there's nothing in it that would not appeal to adults that like playing platformers or that type of game. That's more important these days, IMHO, as you finally get a generation of people who grew up playing video games and who won't immediately dismiss them as 'kids stuff'.
Super Mario Brothers has entirely too much nostalgia to be seen with clear eyes.If the game sucked, there'd be no nostalgia in it. The thing is, it was, and still is, a fun game. Go back and play it and see if you don't enjoy it. Heck, people are buying the game for Game Boy! I have even more "nostalgia" for Mike Tyson's Punch Out, or Side Pocket, where the originals were funner to play than their clones/sequels.
How many adults do you expect to play Spongebob, Jimmy Neutron, Animal Snap, Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon or the surprising current Nintendo #1 seller, Lego Starwars?Actually, my wife is a big fan of Harvest Moon games. She played Animal Crossing and thought it was okay, but she seemed to be at a loss for what to do next much of the time with that game. So honestly I don't know how to answer that question because my wife probably isn't part of your expected demographic. And are my wife and I part of the SM Sunshine demographic? Because we both put tons of hours into that one. (And this is making me start to think about playing it again. :)
Now, most of the other games you identified are, obviously, tie-in games that would appeal only to people who watch the show or whatever. If you don't like Spongebob, you're not going to even look at that game. I bet there are a lot of adult Star Wars fans who would try out Lego SW though, if just for the laugh factor. Heck, I even thought about playing the game, and I'm not a big SW fan at all. In fact, do you KNOW that all or even most of those Lego SW games are going to kids?
Demographics are absolutely critical to this industry. If you get a broad-acceptance game - and I can count the non-clones on that list in history on both hands (kids don't play solitaire) - then you're making a mint. But you'd better be damned able to either explain it at the business pitch of show user testing results, because that's a total holy grail; it never, ever happens in this line of work.Well, as a game player, all I can really say is that there used to be a lot of really fun games out there with unique premises and/or gameplay behind them, but these days the market is mostly filled with clones of the same old games. I don't think anyone (outside of Nintendo, perhaps) even cares about broad acceptance or bringing in new target markets anymore. It's all about "how can I sell a new game to the exact target market I sold the last game to". Hmmm... Maybe make the same game? :)
But that's what demographics, user testing, etc. are all about. Making a profile of the 'target market' and their desires so clearly that sales can virtually be assured. And then repeating that success over and over. Hollywood has done this for a long time. Of course, inventing new gameplay or unique concepts doesn't cater well to this. But oh well, there are a LOT of people who don't seem to miss those things. Ready for my next FPS, sirs!
Note to Americans: the exchange rate is 297 trillion yen to a dollar. That means Ninendo is making only .000126 cents!
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I agree, but I understand both... I initially thought the same as the GP, but the GGP was correct.. Just for whatever reason, with the rest of the spelling and rythym of the GGP post, it seemed like a Your was more proper, then the correctly used You're.
God. Wtf am I doing? This makes no sence. AHH, 3 AM and debating over someone who DIDN'T make a mistake. *runs away screaming*
You must be a very well-endowed polydactyl. We should meet. ;-)
Huhuhuh. <flow style="magic mike">Heeeey Laaadies</flow>
Seriously, though, I can think of more than 10 "broad-acceptance games" on the GC alone.
I don't know what to tell you. I'm going by EA's market research, which lists exactly three: bust a move 3000, mario party 5 (not 4, 6 or 7), and Super Monkey Ball 2. Note that Tetris Worlds did not make the cut. I would be interested in hearing the rest of your list, however.
Please note that when I say on my hands, I'm counting the several Monkey Balls on various platforms as a single game; all the tetrises are a single game; et cetera.
One possible issue is that you don't realize how high I'm setting the standard. The number is 80% acceptance for each major age category. Few games hit that in even one category, let alone all of them.
I think that you have a very strange understanding of demographic targets in general. Let me correct some of your stranger mumblings.
Do understand that this is what I do for a living, and that I'm pretty good at it. Do understand also that I have access to the market statistics that drive several multibillion dollar corporations. I'm not just pulling this out of thin air; there are people who figure these things out for a living, and since they can mean a difference of eight digits in the profit of a single game, the ones in the big companies are generally very very good at what they do.
Mario is not a cartoon character. There is no Super Mario BLAM! on Nickelodeon.
Mario has had four seperate cartoon shows, two of which are still in syndication. Amusingly, Nick still runs both Captain N and the Power Hour in some districts, though not nationally, on NickToons or NickJr. There's another one under tentative production at DIC right now.
I doubt that show still holds the franchising power of a smash hit like Spongebob Squarepants.
You do realize that the franchise isn't the show, but everything - the toys, the clothes, and (get this) the video games, right?
Spongebob has never had anything like the franchise power of Mario. Mario is in fact one of the most successful franchises in history, right up there with Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny.
Second, everyone I know who owns a Game Cube also owns Animal Crossing. Every single person.
Then you have an extremely atypical set of acquaintences. Penetration of Animal Crossing into adult households without children under the age of 9 is less than ten percent. Something tells me national retailer statistics are a better representative sample than your friends, no offense intended.
Third, I think you put American Idol in the wrong category. The show is very strong with the youth market, and I would be surprised if more adults than kids were responsible for its sales. Especially on the GBA.
Then prepare to be surprised. On the PC and TV consoles, the largest consumer of American Idol is the young adult market, ages 20-27. On the GBA, it's neck and neck between them and the late teen market, 15-19.
Fourth, I bought the latest Harvest Moon game yesterday. Did I mention I'm 24? I think that's well out of the "two or three years" scope you gave. It's a very complicated game, and the complexity scales with how much you want to do in it. I like that.
You need to understand that this is the mark of an exceptionally open-minded gamer. I wish there were more consumers out there like you; exceptional games frequently rot on the shelves, like Stars!, where tripe like Master of Orion makes bujillions.
The young adult penetration of Harvest Moon is under fifteen percent. That you're in two such marginal categories should be a signal to you: you're more open to odd games than most people in your demographic, which usually means your friends are too; you aren't going to be a good representation of the average gamer. When you're do
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Seriously, though, I can think of more than 10 "broad-acceptance games" on the GC alone.
I don't know what to tell you. I'm going by EA's market research, which lists exactly three: bust a move 3000, mario party 5 (not 4, 6 or 7), and Super Monkey Ball 2.
I should also point out that at three broad-acceptance games at the 80% mark out of a set of 464, the GC has the second highest broad-acceptance rate of any major console in history, after the GameBoy Color, and of the top five seats, only one - #4, the Atari 2600 - isn't a Nintendo. You're right to point out that Nintendo is very good at generalized games. However, the wide-band 80% line is the gold standard; it gets hit once a year or so on all systems put together.
(BTW, there are actually 467, but three aren't listed here; if you look at the Nintendo site and see 519, please realize that that site also lists games that are coming out but aren't out yet, so obviously I don't have stats for those.)
StoneCypher is Full of BS
i suggest you do some research as well.
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early stages of one of the first playable games has already been shown running.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/635/635525p1.html
[keep in mind that this game is months away from release]
may i add that the new unreal engine was playable and running on actual hardware at e3 as well.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124
also, just because many of the trailers at e3 were pre-rendered, that doesnt preclude that there is in fact a very real, and very good looking next generation engine that drives it.
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/09
LOL!!! So I was in Diapers, was I? ;)
Well... I actually had PHONG mind you...
one of those white battery operated boxes with built in sound and in Black & white on a Panasonic 12 " television back in the days
(insert - old man...nagging....sound here)..
Man...We sound like an old couple on an retirement home already...
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.