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Microsoft Acquires Winternals and Sysinternals
SJasperson writes "In a move that will be good for Redmond but may have consequences for the rest of us, Microsoft has acquired Winternals and Sysinternals. This gives them well-known developers Mark Russinovich and Bryce Cogswell as well as dozens of well-loved and much-praised utilities, both commercial and freeware. Though Mark says on his blog that the Sysinternals site will remain 'for the time being,' this would be a good time to download the latest version of essential Windows tools like Process Explorer before they can go mysteriously missing or be locked up behind the wall of Windows Genuine Advantage."
Noooooooooooooooo!!!! WHY, God, WHY!?!
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel...
After months of ripping out what's not important, Windows Vista is finally getting a heart and a brain. Alas, no courage is yet available.
Q. What are you announcing?
Resistance is futile.
Q. How does this acquisition affect Winternals' customers?
Cost is going up, delivery is going to suck.
Q. Will you continue selling Winternals' portfolio of products?
There is no such thing anymore.
Q. Why is it a good thing for Winternals' customers?
These aren't the droids you're looking for.
Q. Will I still receive technical support and if so for how long?
How long can you tread water?
Q. Why is Microsoft acquiring Winternals and Sysinternals?
To assimilate.
Q. What exactly is a Technical Fellow?
Microsoft Bob.
Q. How many Technical Fellows are there at Microsoft?
There can be only one.
Q. My Product Assurance Contract with Winternals on Administrator's Pak (or other tool) is about to expire (or has just expired). Can I still renew it?
You're new around here, aren't you?
Q. What were the terms? How much did Microsoft pay for Winternals? Was it a cash or stock deal?
A few spare souls that have not been allocated yet.
Make a torrent of the latest tools STAT!
The (near) monopoly maker of flat tires buys out all of the patch companies.
Before it gets slashdotted:
Q. What are you announcing?
A. Winternals and Sysinternals have been acquired by Microsoft. Winternals is a leading provider of systems recovery tools for Windows-based enterprises worldwide and Sysinternals is one of the leading community and enthusiast sites for people interested in information about the internals of the Windows operating system.
Q. How does this acquisition affect Winternals' customers?
A. Microsoft will stop and kill everything as soon as all legal, hardcopy contracts are over
Q. Will you continue selling Winternals' portfolio of products?
A. No, it will get integrated halfly into Windows 2006 though.
Q. Why is it a good thing for Winternals' customers?
A. It is a good thing because now they can't spend any money anymore on stupid tools and they can finally switch to Linux
Q. Will I still receive technical support and if so for how long?
A. Winternals will continue to provide technical support for the current term of your Product Assurance Contract.
Q. Why is Microsoft acquiring Winternals and Sysinternals?
A. Extend, embrace and extuingish.
Q. What exactly is a Technical Fellow?
A. The guy that will come install Linux on your servers
Q. How many Technical Fellows are there at Microsoft?
A. A lot, they are undercover penguins.
Q. My Product Assurance Contract with Winternals on Administrator's Pak (or other tool) is about to expire (or has just expired). Can I still renew it?
A. No, there are no plans for renewal.
Q. What were the terms? How much did Microsoft pay for Winternals? Was it a cash or stock deal?
A. Microsoft threatened with a lawsuit over some of the programs.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
I have a legitimate windows installation, but i refuse to install WGA. Im not a big fan of spyware.
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
You're complaining that Microsoft expects you to use a purchased version of Windows? WTF
No, he's complaining of being constantly suspected to be a thief by Microsoft, as well as, sometimes, being a collateral victim of malfunctionning paranoid DRM.
I love their tools too, but why the commotion?
Good for them. Now they get fat paychecks, good bonuses, and they work for the empire.
And I'd bet that if MSFT offered you $$$$ for whatever you were making, and a fat paycheck with good bonuses - you'd be a fool to not take it...
= Grow a brain...
It's not the "purchased version" part that I'm worried about but the "of Windows" part. I'm complaining that I can't use the utilities with Wine (an independent implementation of Win32 spec, commonly used with *BSD and *Linux) or with ReactOS (an operating system consisting of Wine on top of a reimplementation of the NT kernel).
Windows Genuine Advantage mistakes 20% of genuine XP operating systems as counterfeit. If you install the update, you have a 1 in 5 chance of kissing your operating system goodbye. The summary for installation says it will then "help you obtain a licensed copy of Windows."
Would you be the slightest bit annoyed if ALL windows programs required WGA validation? I have a legit copy of windows, so don't gimme none of that "You're pirate BS"
No but most other OSes dont use as intrusive and time-consuming methods of determining that a copy of the OS is legitimate.
I would be more scared their tools were bundled exclusively with OneCare. In either case, the next release version of any of those tools will probably include several megabytes of Microsoft Bloat®. Can't wait for Clippy to tell me how to use Process Explorer.
Personally, my only problem with WGA is that it's a weird user experience. I need to click through about twenty times - even on IE - to have my system transmit "Yes, he's using a real version of Windows." It shouldn't be that complicated.
The problem is that WGA enforcement sometimes blocks innocent users of ReactOS and other Wine-based software stacks.
They're complaining that Microsoft has software built into its OS with considerable power to mess with your property that does you no good and assumes you are a criminal. What makes it worse is that WGA will never stop real pirates.
The name is also stupid. It should be called "Windows Copy Protection".
You do have a point, though.
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
I have multiple legitimate licenses but according to Microsoft, the OEM license dies with the machine (ie: motherboard). A court would disagree but it's easier to just install XPCorp.
This has to be seen in the context of anti-interoperability action of Microsoft and orders from the competition authorities e.g. in the European Union. Still Microsoft fails to comply with the documentation orders of the European Union.
Now Microsoft takes over tools which enable interoperability with its plattform and puts them under their licensing control. What we will see next is a restrictive Microsoft EULA for it which discourages use for reengineering or interoperability for Ms competitors etc.
Worth to file a complaint at the responsible EU competition consumer liason office.
Personally I have auto updates set to notify me when the download is complete and the files are ready to install. If you deselect the WGA option, you can then choose to never install it. Same goes for the windows update website.
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
body massage!
Does anyone else find it a little funny that Microsoft bought out Winternals to get Mark Russinovich? According to a Microsoft employee, "Mark is one of the top five or 10 people in the world when it comes to Windows internals." I'd believe that, but isn't it just a little funny that Microsoft had to go to a 3rd party company to find an expert in the internals of Windows?
YES seriously. Not because the copy of Windows that happens to be running on the current machine is not paid for, but because it's lame to have to worry about copying utilities around from machine to machine and all of a sudden have some problem because Microsoft f'd with it.
Microsoft doesn't get it. It's very obvious. They add features they would like, not what the rest of the world actually wants.
Some of Mark's blog entries in the past have cited shortcomings and oversights in Windows systems and he has often provided utilities to get around/address them. Now that Mark is a Microsoft employee, will such criticism be forthcoming, or silenced?
Mark's investigations into Windows workings have been very informational and useful over the years. Now that he'll be under NDA and non-compete...
The reason for the acquisition is obvious. The programmers at Microsoft were constantly complaining about not knowing what processes were running on their machine, or the need for a utility to defrag their pagefile, etc. Most software development shops would develop the necessary tools. Microsoft, not having a clue what's actually going on in their OS, decided to purchase the company that made these tools...
I tried that once, but it never worked. It kept requiring me to install it any time I tried to update.
The problem, as has been said thousands of times on slashdot and elsewhere, is that these measures don't stop piracy. They do, on the other hand, sometimes cause problems for legitimate users. On top of that, WGA is little more than spyware and treats me like a criminal checking everyday to make sure that my copy of windows is valid. If it was valid yesterday, why would it not be today? Add to the mix that when I purchased my copies (plural.) of XP, this WGA was not part of the software or even something that the public had been told would be in the future.
Also, much of the complaint this time around, at least in regards to this, is not just that WGA sucks. It's that very good, useful, high quality software which has previously been available to anyone will likely be made available only to people who install useless DRM from MS. While MS may have the right to do whatever they want with the software now that they've purchased the company, it doesn't mean people have to be happy about it.
Sure you can. Winternals and Sysinternals utilities don't require WGA and there's nothing but Slashdot FUD stating that they will require WGA. Download them now, burn them to Blu-Ray disc, and use them forever.
For more information, click here.
I've found Process Explorer and Registry Explorer to be great tools to help find out exactly what's going on in a Windows box, and they're great for tracking down malware. They're a hell of a lot more useful than the ctrl-alt-del dialog box in XP.
I'm sure with Vista coming out soon that Redmond would love to obfuscate or disappear these utilities that would help let people know what Vista is really doing under the hood.
Do you not shop at stores that tag their clothes with shoplifting detectors? Get a clue. That shoplifting technology saves money for the honest among us.
People (apparently you) seem to think that the only possibility is running Windows and this utility on some nice and pat environment. Rarely is this the case with most of us here. I may have to fix some computer by shoving a CDrom in the computer and running a utility because there is some problem. So if the utility won't run because the OS is confused (which MS OSs often get confused) then there's no way to fix the problem. Essentially they would have shot themselves in the foot.
If some MS exec decides that win.com (or whatever) is protected fine, but leave the utilities and similiar ilk alone. Protecting the world is great at some boardroom meeting, but reality is quite different.
Well some good reasons people are mad is that when the acquire they often either destroy or manipulate the product. For example, they will purchase a company and then simply stop developing or distributing its products to stifle competition or a product that they do not like. They also like to force you to own the latest version Windows to get the tools, as if every one only uses Windows and not Wine or is not a repair tech simply looking for some utilities. They also like to manipulate products to hide their DRM or to not be able to do things they do not like in the OS. For example, Process Explorer will now not be able to see that special DLL or hook they add to their software for DRM, security purposes, or maybe NSA acccess. While this might not seem like much imagine trying to locate the cause for a problem in an application or the system when parts of the application or OS are being hidden from you. They also remove tools they feel might be used in a way they do not like. For example, tools that allow you to mount registries remotely and manipulate them without MS security making your life miserable as in tools that do not hide keys from you or lock them down. They also like to add anti-features like phone-home and to force you to register. That is why people get so pissed when this happens.
Yet another proof that Microsoft can't behave like a normal market player. They fear even those working for them. They feel the need to control everything under the sun.
You cannot proceed from the informal to formal by formal means
Well done, sir, well done.
I was having a good week until I read that.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
-- Microsoft Security
That works only for the Windows Genuine Advantage Notification one. Not the actual WGA itself.
?
I think their full of it.
The license dies (for me) with transfer of license ownership (ie: giving my disk / 4th generation pre-keyed backup to another person).
Meanwhile, I wonder if there's a market for pre-keyed windows installations? ie: purchase a windows disk, create a pre-keyed / slipstreamed / no question / extra utility (say, ClamAV and Spybot S&D, set to run silently at regular intervals at low prio)/ extra app (say, Openoffice, Firefox and Thunderbird preinstalled as well) DVD version, and sell both for slightly more than the purchase cost of the original. Since the license accompanies the disc, and since I'm not removing anything from the user, I think it would be a sweet thing to be able to buy. Microsoft's making their money, so they've no reason to bitch. Everything else is OSS...
Actually, lemme get started on the process for that; it should be relatively easy and potentially batchable (get a batch of WinXP discs of a set version, use one to create the base image, and change the key for each disc).
Call it "Windows XP - Not Lame Edition"
110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
I smell a zealot with a fistful of mod points... why is this flamebait? I think the parent brings up a valid point here.
body massage!
I have to say - of all the arguments being presented here as to why WGA hurts consumers, yours is the only argument that needed to offer a hypothetical instance where WGA was worse. What does that say about you?
Anyone know of a single .zip that includes all the sysinternals downloadable programs? I started to download a few and realized it would take me hours clicking to each page.
No, he's complaining of being constantly suspected to be a thief by Microsoft, as well as, sometimes, being a collateral victim of malfunctionning paranoid DRM
That's preposterous, who in their right mind would beli
Microsoft have determined your installation of Windows includes non-registered components. Failure to comply will result in the shutdown of your operating system and a visit from the BSA Stormtroopers.
ike it was something out of Star Wars with Darth Vader and all. Sheesh, get real!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
WHY, God, WHY!?!
Because you chose to run Microsoft software. These are the consequences.
Developers: We can use your help.
Any idea what IP address and port WGA uses to connect?
I might just block them at my router.
We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
Do not go thinking that even that technology cannot be without drawbacks to legit customers.
One case where I bought something, the cashier rang it up and put it in a bag. I got it home and discovered an antitheft tag still on the item. And it was the kind of tag that would wreck the item with dye if removed incorrectly. So I had to return to the store to get the tag removed. And this store was a fair distance away. That technology cost me money in gas and time.
There could be an analogy made for WGA. Analysis of the strings in WGA code leads to the conclusion that WGA code can shut down a windows install that WGA thinks is invalid. If WGA is wrong (Microsoft? Bugs? Never!) then a legit copy of Windows may go inactive with a major hassle to get it working again. Even if the owner has the Certificate of Authority. I don't blame people for opting out.
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
Unfortunately I don't, but I know a few people have it as their firewalls caught it and asked if it should be allowed or not. I'd imagine some searching on the web would turn it up eventually. That or I bet the tools from sysinternals would probably be useful in figuring it out.
Some Microsoftie marked the parent comment as flamebait. However, it seems likely that Microsoft bought SysInternals to silence a web site that provided software of far higher quality than software from Microsoft.
Anything SysInternals did was the best, and made the sloppiness of Microsoft software obvious.
Microsoft will continue to meet all Winternals customer support agreements through their terms.
was probably supposed to read
Microsoft will continue to meet all Winternals customer support agreements, but on their terms.
the same typo occured in several places.
<bashful_grin>Just trying to be helpful.</bashful_grin>
You're about 15 years too late on that greeting there buddy....
Microsoft needed to hire these fellows because they're probably the only people on the planet who could properly document the Windows API for the EU.
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
At first glance I'm inclined to go along with the preponderance of thought here that this will be bad in the long run for users of Winternals products. I don't know of another company that has produced such good basic Windows utilities that are free and that work well with little overhead for so long.
OTOH, it will be interesting to see if and when Sysmon, Filemon and other tools get integrated into the Windows administrative tools. Or am I dreaming? I mean, after all didn't performance monitor and disk defrag and other utilities also come from companies that MS assimilated?
Hooray for the Sysinternals guys who will undoubtedly be kickin' it in the Carribean soon. Woe (maybe) to the rest of us.
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
wget -r --domains=www.sysinternals.com,sysinternals.com http://www.sysinternals.com/
I've followed Mark's advice and used some of his utilities for years. I will be forever grateful for the things I learned by analyzing the source code to some of the utilities. I think Mark is entitled to cash in on his effort, but I'm not very optimistic about the quality of stuff that will come from Winternals from now on. Mark (and Winternals) was independent and worked at an independent pace, which is going to degrade now that there are layers of bureaucracy added.
On the other hand, the Winternals utilities represent about 10% (IMO) of the utilities needed to really analyze and fix Windows when it malfunctions. I'm too old to do this myself, but maybe a group of ambitious analysts could step up and continue the good work. Even more important, maybe a good group of analysts could develop a methodology for analyzing the OS and then point the way toward needed utilities.
I'm actually feeling a little grief over the demise of Winternals as an independent company.
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
It's not going to be a popular opinion, but why should Microsoft be supporting such stacks at all?
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
You need to double-check your definition of Spyware. $10 says you're still not running a legitimate version.
I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that we haven't seen a blog entry from Mark since May. Apparently the silence has already begun.
Behold, the power of fleas...
They want to halt all the tech calls, gray hair and suicides caused by this.
I've really been considering switching to Mac when the Core 2 Duos come out rather than deal with the looming hell of Vista for my desktop machine (my servers will still be running Debian). With Norton long gone to uselessness, Sysinternals was one of my top places for getting tools that MS should have provided and didn't. Just one more nail in the coffin.
(Yes I realize that Apple is just a mini-MS as far as being evil where they can, but that seems to be mostly in the iPod stuff and going after the press. On the desktop side 10.5 looks far, far more appealing than Vista.)
I started mirroring the sysinternals.com site with HTTrack as soon as I read about this.
If your motherboard dies, you can replace it with a new motherboard without buying a new copy of Windows. That's according to Microsoft's licence.
If you just want to upgrade, though, and your old motherboard is working fine, then it's considered that you bought a new computer, and need a new copy of Windows.
That's assuming that said copy of Windows is an OEM version, rather than retail box.
Retail box you can transfer to your heart's content, as there's no restriction to a specific computer.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Intrusive? Time consuming? All I have to do is press a frikkin button. And not even once every 108 minutes!
I smell an excuse.
I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.
mark then put on his high heels, lipstick, and sun-dress, and passed around cocktails on a tray at billg's dinner party.
free software, open standards, open file formats, no software patents.
Yes but the stores remove the tags from the items when I purchace them and don't try to sneak into my house later on and put the tags back on them so that I have to make a trip back to the store with a reciept to prove I bought them so they can remove the tag again...ad nauseum...
If you must!
Personally, my only problem with WGA is that it's a weird user experience. I need to click through about twenty times - even on IE - to have my system transmit "Yes, he's using a real version of Windows." It shouldn't be that complicated.
Sure you must be talking about some first-time installation? When I go to MS to download something, or I do a MS Update, there's exactly ONE (1) screen telling me there's a check. This screen has ONE (1) button that I need to push to 'continue', after which I am sent to ONE (1) more page telling me it's ok.
That's 2 pages. 1 click. Stop making excuses.
I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.
Check out http://www.osronline.com/ . They have some similar utilities and are the place to go for windows device driver questions and debug. They are the folks that finally fixed much of the DDK documenation . I still have the mugs they gave away for finding doc errors.
By the way, I highly recommend their classes. I have taken a bunch of them and I am pretty sure that these folks know windows internals better than any other organization...maybe even MS.
-- soldack
It is a very sad day when slashdot has ads like this. I am now removing slashdot rss feed from my homepage and never comming here again. I have no problem with there being microsoft ads, but an ad that covers up the entire summary. Slashdot really went downhill.
m v4.jpg
http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slashdot
If WGA is wrong (Microsoft? Bugs? Never!) then a legit copy of Windows may go inactive with a major hassle to get it working again.
Has that happened to anyone yet? I don't know anybody who had a legit copy of Windows and got screwed over with WGA.
Also, I don't think MS will actually shut down Windows machines just yet, too many issues with that:
1. They're scared of the situation mentioned above
2. If they do it they have to make sure you can't get around it (easily)
3. LOTS of their software is pirated in countries from Eastern Europe, Asia etc., and it's not clear what would happen if they all of a sudden can't run Windows. One thing is pretty certain, they're not going to actually purchase Windows.
Guess it remains to be seen, but until people actually have real issues with WGA, I think it's just the "bitching of the moment" and is not warranted.
They don't need to support them, but they do need to avoid going out of their way to stop them from working. They already have been busted for this multiple times; DOS ain't done 'till Lotus won't run, and of course, the infamous DR-DOS check in Windows 3.1.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
http://www.winternals.com/products/repairandrecove ry/locksmith.asp
what a surprise... Microsoft takes down the locksmith. Anyone have it for me?
Thanks
stuff |
I am almost irrationally sad about this. Microsoft is clearly getting a couple of deeply gifted people. But I consider several of the Sysinternals utilities, especially Process Monitor, essential for good Windows Health. Tuning performance or squashing spyware of friends' PCs or what have you, they write great stuff. Plus their web site is a great, independent resource to learn about some of these internal issues.
I suppose a very optimistic person would assume that functions like seing what processes spawned other processes, have files open, have sockets open, etc., will now be available in future Windows versions. I guess I must be cynical, because I'm feeling a sense of loss and sadness. Thanks for the great stuff, Sysinternals.
Some of you already have those cute little shirts on that say disco sucks, right? That's not all that sucks.-Frank Zappa
You know stubbornness isn't a virtue.
Then the fucktards will be forced to either use BSD or Linux or go with micro$hit. If they go with Micro$hit they will spend all of their money by servicing their machine when it is h4x0r3). Once those fucktards go so far into debt they will have no choice but to kill themselves. W00T! W00T!
Russinovich & Cogswell were the developers that "knew more about Windows internals than Microsoft".
I've enjoyed using their utilities for security work. Their articles were always interesting.
My fave was probably the one where they tried to run Windows with the bare amount of processes/services, kind of similar to a halted unix system.
I hope they keep on releasing the good utilities after the acquisition.
The problem, as has been said thousands of times on slashdot and elsewhere, is that these measures don't stop piracy. They do, on the other hand, sometimes cause problems for legitimate users.
Locks on doors don't stop theft. They do, on the other hand, sometimes cause problems for people that legitimately want to get in. People forget keys, maybe some jerk put bubble gum in the lock.
You need to read the article again. Here's the sentence right from the top:
One in five computers labelled as counterfeit are running legitimate operating systems
This does not mean that one in five computers are flagged as counterfeit. It means that of all the computers that are flagged as counterfeit, one in five are incorrectly flagged. No percentage is given as to how many computers are actually flagged so we have no idea what the overall ratio is. Please work on your reading skills before making claims like you did.
I love my sig.
I hate it when this kinda shit happens....anyone remember RAV antivirus? That was some excellent Linux mail server antivirus, now, you can NOT even buy it. Buy, screw, kill...kinda sounds like jack the ripper, eh?
----- I have bad karma for a reason! -----
As an Access developer (okay, you can stop laughing now), I use emulation to run XP on my Mac at home. That image has no network access whatsoever. Anything off the ’net that ends up on that C:\ drive gets that way after being download by Opera and then put in a shared directory on my HFS+ drive that VPC/XP is allowed to see. So how is this legitimate user supposed to make use of resources locked behing WGA?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
or does the systernals site appear to be getting slammed right about now? really laggy and slow it seems.
Most of those links are 404'ed now.
Windows is not your property. Most software sales are sales of a license, not sales of the property. It only makes sense that you have to verify the license is yours before you can use the software that is not yours.
I love my sig.
...and will remain so with Vista.
How would you feel about buying a car if it came with a whole set of tools that were specifically for repairing that car? Wouldn't that seem to imply that the car is expected to break down so often that the toolkit is a must-have item? I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't regard that as a ringing endorsement of the quality of the car.
If they are buying Winternals, they are acknowledging that the utilites those guys offered are both useful and frequently necessary to keep Windows running and/or fix it when it breaks badly. They'll almost certainly end up as part of Vista.
Given the choice between an OS that is low-maintenance and seldom has problems, and one that breaks so often it comes with a ton of handy-dandy utilities to assist repairs and maintenance, I know which one I'd pick.
Well it looks like you can make money with open source.
Didn't they just smack the crap out of the dipstick squad?
And now they're being Bought by MS. Cha Ching!
If I were Mark, I'd pull the plug and retire or bail as soon as any agreement allowed and maybe start a parallel venture (if allowed) or an entire separate one if necessary.
Who will guard the guards?
A great number of the capababilities in their primary product - ERD Commander - have now been duplicated in BART PE-based bootdisks like Ultimate Boot CD for Windows (UBCD4Win). I recently evaluated ERD Commander specifically against UBCD4Win, and in the hands of a well-trained user the latter did most of what we needed to do. It wasn't as slick, and there were some ways in which ERD Commander was much better, but the very high price of ERD Commander (at least for a small consulting shop like mine) made it very difficult to buy with the marginal additional functionality it adds. On the other hand, without UBCD4Win, it would have been quite attractive.
I'm guessing we're not the only ones noticing this... so the sale makes sense. Better sell out to MS rather that try to compete with 'free'.
-R
ps- Note my caveat "did most of what we needed to do". I'm not claiming that UBCD4Win is an ERD Commander replacement for everyone...
You've listed one valid example. Care to list all these other examples, preferably examples pertaining to an OS that was released less than 14 years ago?
So, the question is, does MS continue with the law suit started by Winternals against Best Buy and take the chance of pissing out a huge retailer, "quitely" resolve the matter or drop it? On the other hand did the possible payoff make Winternals a better buy?
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
True, however, refusing to have anything to do with the products of a company that behaves like Microsoft is!
How about not using a cargo cult, closed source, unnecessary and contra-productive format for a TORRENT?
RAR is only Cargo Cult behaviour. It doesn't prove ANYTHING (anyone can RAR), it means extra programs needs downloading, it means non-free programs on a computer, it means less seeders, it provides almost no space saving (on media), it's a pain when playing media and the torrent format provides all the checksumming and redownloading needed.
It is time to stop using obsolete and freedom-unfriendly software. It is waaaay past time using a format that takes away all the good things about using torrents, especially downloading selected parts first or only.
Oh, and if you absolutely MUST pack files together for a non-torrent reason, use something that is freely (in all senses) available to all people, not just to a select elite. Zip would be favourite, as all modern desktops handle it OOTB.
Thank you.
or remain as visible as Windows Defender
I'll make no objection if a distribution of any OS restricts supported, distro-funded and distro-specific, downloads to its paying customers.
It is, after all, the reason why OEM Linspire has a token presence in big-box retail.
Nor will I object to demanding a show of proof. You are not entitled to a free ride on my dime.
usage: %s [-l] [-n]
-l Log to stable file
-n Exercise NTOSKRNL
Running stress test. Press Ctrl-C to quit.
Exercising WIN32K
Exercising NTOSKRNL
Logging calls to crash.log
Copyright (C) 1996 Mark Russinovich
Funny thing is this still causes crashes on XP... 10 years and going...
The locksmith tool has been moved into the Administrator's Pak.
P ak/Default.aspx
http://www.winternals.com/Products/Administrators
Well for someone who doesn't want to let windows updates flow freely, I have to seperately authorize the download and installation of each WGA patch and verification that comes in. They all work just fine which is surprising because my copy of windows is cracked. I paid $99 for the original disc and a key years ago but I have switched machines twice since then, after the first one it stopped validating without a little help from antiWPA.
Um... you have your cursor over the banner ad, thats why its expands like that. Take your cursor off of it and it shrinks to normal size.... get a grip plz
How long will MS allow you to download the BSOD emulating screen saver?
h tmlBlueScreen Screen Saver
:-)
BlueScreen Screen Saver
http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/BlueScreen.
That name isn't terribly clever either, since there's no way it which it protects copies of Windows. (Protection from what hazard?) "Windows Copy Prevention" would at least describe what it tries to do, or at least claims to try to do, but since it doesn't, "Windows User Interference" would probably be a better name.
Google aquires former Microsoft developers Mark Russinovich and Bryce Cogswell
make a file with the contents in that link
if you haven't, set up your http_proxy environment variable for wget:
export http_proxy=http://proxy.com:8080/
wget --proxy=on -i yourfile.txt
if you have no proxy, it's cake:
wget --proxy=on -i yourfile.txt
I have to believe the reason the creators of Winternals cashed in is that the uncovering of massive, unlicensed use at Geek Squad demonstrated that Winternals was just enabling hacks to charge way, way too much for supporting PCs.
I know if I had a tool of mine abused in that way, I'd look to get out of the business. This sounds like as good a way to do that as any.
Actually, I listed two valid examples, and I have no interest in having an argument with someone who cannot count to two.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
[pauses]
Darth Vader: Luke, you do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.
Luke: Hmmm... well, how's your health plan? Will I get stock options?
Maybe you're being presumptuous by assuming the advice in the summary was directed at you.
I am the inventor of the hilarious refrigerator alarm.
Oh please, please let them do this. The lawsuit would be staggering, and it would probably be Microsoft's XCP in terms of convincing the execs that the whole approach was a massive business liability and should be stopped permanently.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
WGA doesn't recognize my version of XP Tablet Edition. Its stright off toshiba's store, never been wiped, and I'm unable to do windows update because WGA would cripple my machine.
So, it protects your copy of Windows? The opposite, I think.
Actually, all we need to know is the ratio of counterfeit to genuine systems and assume that all counterfeit systems are flagged as such. We know that x% of genuine systems is flagged as counterfeit, and that x*(# genuine) = 0.25*(# counterfeit), so the percentage of genuine systems flagged is one quarter of the ratio of counterfeit to genuine systems. Additionally, this lets us put a bound on the number of detectably counterfeit systems out there. There cannot be more than four times as many (detectable) counterfeit systems out there than genuine systems - if that were the case, then 100% of genuine systems would be flagged as counterfeit.
That or I bet the tools from sysinternals would probably be useful in figuring it out.
Until the next versions come out.
of patent applications filings...
I suspect ms is looking to treasure hunt a handful of patents... what's their filing count now?
1,800? 2,250? 3,157 a year the past few years?
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Someone please organize a pro-bono heist of Russiniovich's soul from Seattle & give it back to him.
Honestly though, I can see why this would happen & I'm actually suprised it didn't sooner. If you were a large, publicly traded software interest, how would you deal with a third party appearing (being?) more knowlegeable than you about your own system's intrinsics? Yes, he made Windows more usable for many of us, but when it comes down to it, it's what the overall PR impact looks like to the marketing dep't that matters...
I can only hope that this simply means little more than MSDN hosting for the current offering of tools. If they start retiring Mark's apps, I'm going Black Friday.
Pi Ran Out
Heh. I wonder if they'll still keep the BSOD screensaver around on the website now?
Han shot first.
... to believe that Microsoft will actually start giving away Winternals software for free now ... Sounds like a perfect candidate to include with the OS versions targeted at corporations.
No, it protects Microsoft's copy of Windows. We're only licensing it from them, after all.
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
Even if you want to take the stance that the Windows CD isn't your property, I don't think that's what the parent was talking about...I believe he was talking about the computer itself. Regardless of whether the OS is legal or not, regardless of which OS is being used, the computer is the property. I believe the parent meant messing with the computer when he said "messing with my property".
Has that happened to anyone yet?
Can you be assured that none of the near daily new exploits of the Windows operating system are _not_ attributable to WGA?
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
I'm not making an excuse not to download WGA-protected software, because my job requires it. I'm saying their UX is shitty.
Anyway, let's go over to my test machine where I'm downloading DirectX. I click "Continue". I click, "OK" on the warning that lets me know that the Information Bar has popped up. I click the bar, click "Install ActiveX control", then I click "Install" again. Obviously they've upgraded it, because there used to be a lot more clickthroughs involved, and I used to have to reload the page with the download a few times.
It's even worse on Firefox. But I guess I should be glad they even support it.
You shouldn't be making excuses for Microsoft because it's a first-time install.
Ubuntu, here I come.
Chris Knight is my hero.
this would be a good time to download the latest version of essential Windows tools like Process Explorer before they can go mysteriously missing or be locked up behind the wall of Windows Genuine Advantage."
Or, you can actually buy a legitimate license for Windows and not worry about "Windows Genuine Advantage."
Well we can only wish him luck. I'm sure he knows what he is doing. Maybe he might do something with Microsofts security profile.
Severely depressed.
Well, at least the kill switch code has not been enabled yet.
But check out this article In it we have this quote:
So apparently there at 20% WGA validation failures that are not due to leaked or stolen codes. That seems to leave that they were actually valid.You might try googling for "WGA failure Dell"....
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
..as if millions of slashdotters cried out and then were suddenly silenced.
Before you can use the software that is not yours? NONE of the software is yours, the way they tell it, first sale law notwithstanding. Nonetheless, I have paid for it - the vendor verified that when I paid for it. Making me verify it again is annoying and offensive, and another excellent reason to use Linux for any new business. It's hardest to convert from one OS to another...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Actually, all we need to know is the ratio of counterfeit to genuine systems
You are correct. This is the part we don't know so the rest of your post is irrelevant. What we do know is that one in five of the machines that shows as counterfeit, is not.
Slashdot +1 funny -4 Insightful +1 informative -2 Redundant
Karma: Somewhere between SCO and Microsoft
"This is not the rootkit you are looking for."
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I can choose what kind of lock to install; I can have a key lock, a code lock, a fingerprint lock, a card lock, a knock lock. Or no lock. I can't choose to not have WGA, if I want to download things.
Another stupid fucking metaphor from another idiot AC.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
most other OSes
You make it sound like there are a bunch of other OSes that you can purchase for a desktop machine. Sure there are server OSes out there to purchase but most of the time the server cannot be purchased without the OS coming preinstalled (pre-purchased).
checking everyday to make sure that my copy of windows is valid. If it was valid yesterday, why would it not be today?
Because you snapshotted the virtual machine it was running in yesterday and gave it to a dozen friends so they wouldn't have the expense of buying the software themselves or the hassle of installing and configuring it.
My GPL based si_installer let's you easily download and install all of the utilities on http://systernals.com/.
I can't believe this one hasn't been thought of yet ....
....
Wide
Gaping
Asshole
After the reaming by Microsoft, that is all that you will have
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
That's ok, I have no interest in having an argument with someone who cannot check their facts, even when I made it obvious the other's made a mistake. Arrogant much?
If you're going to wget, may I suggest playing nice with rates, delays, and non-essential files:
t ml -X /Video,/Chat,/Forum,/Blog
wget -w 2 --limit-rate=5k -m http://www.sysinternals.com/SysinternalsSiteMap.h
A relatively reasonable 81MB and 553 files.
And don't redistribute. As a software author, beyond it being illegal I consider it to be quite disrespectful to the authors if you were to redistribute these files in violation of their license. On the other hand, it certainly seems like a good idea to make a personal copy at this moment, and that certainly IS in accordance with their license.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
Copy Protection is a standard term for protecting copyright. Genuine Advantage is not.
The purpose of the program is not user interference.
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
But it's removed before you leave the store.
I think that is kind of a short sighted analysis. 20% does not mean they were valid, it means that they were not stolen VOLUME keys. That means they can be false positives certainly, but also retail keys, MSDN keys, etc. Never mind fraudulent reports of "stolen keys" in order to scam a free copy of windows for "reporting the person you got it from".
Guess it remains to be seen, but until people actually have real issues with WGA, I think it's just the "bitching of the moment" and is not warranted.
Except you can't uninstall WGA without reinstalling Windows (and, in the process, undoing all of the security updates that are necessary to use Windows safely on today's Intarweb). If I let MS put WGA on my machine today, and tomorrow they turn on the kill switch and my machine stops working, I'm just as screwed as I would be if there were already problems occurring now.
the website is already changed and a big bold screen of "Winternals acquired by MS" sticker on the front page.
about his views on rootkits etc... http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/062606-russi novich-rootkits.html
Yes, yes you are coming off as it, well done?
"I may be full of crap about this game, and I may be wrong, and that's fine." -Jack Thompson
If you think WGA is bad, wait for Microsoft's DCM. First you won't be able to write any drivers for their OS without thier signature, then who knows how far they'll go. You'll probably have to pay a dollar(US) just to copy a picture you took on your digital camera. Not to mention the activities they will restrict.
I just took a peek at the EULA.TXT included in a fresh download (PsTools .zip file) vs. a copy that came with the same download a couple months ago (file dated Jan 11 2006), and it's *completely* changed. The new version is a "free for personal use only" sorta thing whereas the previous EULA was free for all uses short of infringment and void of warranty.
Have to see how well those EULAs hold up. IANAL of course, but it looks to me like if you're a sysadmin at a commercial entity, you can't use their previously-free tools for free any more. Pretty sad.
Somebody please tell me I'm reading it wrong....
teeker
Must go over to Digg and see how they are wetting their pants over this.... ;-p
AT&ROFLMAO
The only 7Zip de-compressor I know of for mac os X is the command line utility: p7zip.
It's a bit of a pain to find and install - but it gets the job done.
I just went through the whole site and found 113 different programs, unlike the 100 that are being shared, I'll try to get a download up and running as soon as I have them all done.
Utinam me logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant.
When I upgraded the RAM and RAID'ed my main drive, my Windows certificate key no longer worked. If I hadn't been near a telephone, I would have been unable to use the OS I'd paid for. I expect WGA will have similar issues. (In the end it cost me 20 minutes of hold-time.)
I use a WSUS server (basically a local server for automatic updates), and it hasn't even appeared as an option. With WSUS I can have updates downloaded once onto my server and then distributed out to clients from there, as well as select which updates should be applied to what computers. I can also see what updates computers have/need installed.
Not totally on-topic, but, one "critical update" that showed up on my server a few weeks ago was to remove the swastika from a font. If Microsoft thinks that something of that nature is critical, then I'm sure they would be OK with calling WGA a "security update". <sarcasm>After all, they are doing all of this because they are really concerned about malware coming with pirated copies of XP.</sarcasm>
Every time you post an article on Slashdot, I kill a server. Think of the servers!
Smart move Ballmer. You might not like them but they ARE a well run business.
I hope that they paid him enough - it sounds like it - for him to stomach it there. Fortunately, he knows that he can succeed on his own but hopefully he hasn't signed off every right to his work or the ability to continue to do that work if/when he leaves MS. I'd like to look at the contract.
I'm just hoping that this obviously bright and hardworking fella didn't make a deal that he can't wiggle out of.
You think there will ever be a new edition of this great book?
Double Shock and twin waterfalls of tears! Can there be anyone who can possibly understand my sorrow? I want to shout it out! From the botoom of my heart and with all my might!
I don't need to test my programs.. I have an error correcting modem.
yeah but the microsoft people sit in their big corporation building, being all... corporationy... and um... global warming!
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
You could see it coming with the way Mark was courting Microsoft.. Refining Process Explorer to add MSN Search to it, noting on his website which Microsoft QB articles recommend each of his tools, etc. Good for him.
Actually I've always thought that MS should create a "distribution" license, so that people can create third-party distributions of windows. This would also get them out of many of their "omm! You can't package that, you're abusing your monopoly!" situations, because the distributions could package any/multiple media players, browsers, office suites that they wish. Don't like one distro? Buy a different one... but MS still get their money.
Drawbacks? Well, a dodgy distro could make a bad (/worse) name for MS, and a flood of different distro's could confuse consumers, splitting the market up... but handled properly, these could be avoided.
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
Let's not confuse arrogance with being a dick. All I'm doing is pointing out a flaw in someone's logic, with factual evidence included. They're the one that insisted they were right, in a dickish manner. So good call on pointing that out for me...not only are they being arrogant, but they're being a dick about it. But my insistence that they're wrong is well founded. I just chose to point it out in a cockish manner.
That technology cost me money in gas and time.
Uhh, no. One stupid/forgetful employee cost you that money and time. Without that technology, you probably would have paid more for the item than the gas+time cost you, because the store would have to make up for losses due to increased shoplifting. And you'd pay extra every single time you bought something, not just the one rare time when an individual person fucked up.
Your assertion that the technology was at fault is ridiculous. What's next, cooking food is bad because you ate cooked food at a restaurant and got sick, while the fresh banana you had later didn't make you sick? Because surely it wasn't the cook/restaurant's fault for using spoiled food?
Insanity.
Jeez, next you'll be saying that billy boy gates didn't actually say "640k ought to be enough for anyone"! This is slashdot you fool, where MS do everything wrong, even the things they did right, and even the things they didn't do at all!
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
You can only choose what lock to install on your own doors, just as you can choose what copy protection type lock you add on to each piece of software you write.
You can't choose what kind of lock gets used on someone elses doors (even doors which you use, like your local bank door), just as you can't choose what kind of copy protection/verification gets used on software that other people write.
"Another stupid fucking metaphor from another idiot AC"
You didn't have to join in.
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
I suppose your mail server that requires you to log in is "treating you like a hacker"?
"If it was valid yesterday, why would it not be today?"
Um, because the flag that says it was valid yesterday could just be set by a patch/crack?
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
How the fuck can two people doing third party apps be *better* than the people that design the frigging OS? Sure, they might be more on the ball as coders, but no way does any company buy another one because they have better engineers with more knowledge of their own bloody product.
This is a 'remove' job by MS - no doubt about it.
For comparison, here are the EULAs from two versions of Process Explorer. The new one is far more restrictive, and over *10 times* as long.
Process Explorer 10.11 (old version):
This software is provided "as is" and use of the software is at your own risk. Sysinternals disclaims any and all warranties, whether express, implied or statutory, including, without limitation, any implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose or non-infringement of third-party rights. Sysinternals does not warrant that the software is free of defects.
You are allowed to use software published by Sysinternals at home or at work without paying a commercial license fee provided that you downloaded the software yourself directly from Sysinternals, and:
* Use the software on computers for which you are the primary user; or
* Use the software on computers for which there is no primary user
(e.g. servers, including Terminal Servers) and you are a full-time
employee of the company that owns the computer; or
* Use the software on computers within your residence
A commercial license is required to use the software in any way not covered above, including for example:
* Redistributing the software in any manner, including by computer
media, a file server, an email attachment, etc.
* Embedding the software in or linking it to another program
* Use of the software for technical support on customer computers
Sales of commercial licenses support Sysinternals product development and assure that this Web site continues to offer valuable, up-to-date tools. Established software companies redistribute these utilities and incorporate the code into their products because this offers the potential to save significant development time. Sysinternals commercial licenses are priced according to the complexity of the licensed code and its role in the target application. If you are interested in licensing Sysinternals tools or source code for redistribution or for inclusion with or as part of a software product, please contact licensing@sysinternals.com.
10.2 (new version):
Sysinternals - Information on Terms of Use
ACCEPTANCE OF TERMS.
The services that Sysinternals provides to you are subject to the following Terms of Use ("TOU"). Sysinternals reserves the right to update the TOU at any time without notice to you. The most current version of the TOU can be reviewed by clicking on the "Terms of Use" hypertext link located at the bottom of our Web pages.
DESCRIPTION OF SERVICES.
Sysinternals provides you with access to a variety of resources, including utilities, download areas, communication forums and information (collectively "Services"). The Services, including any updates, enhancements, and/or new features are subject to the TOU.
PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE LIMITATION.
Unless otherwise specified, the Services are for your personal and non-commercial use. You may not modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from the Services.
PRIVACY AND PROTECTION OF PERSONAL INFORMATION.
See the Privacy Statement disclosures relating to the collection and use of your information.
NOTICE SPECIFIC TO SOFTWARE AVAILABLE ON THIS WEB SITE.
Any software that is made available to download from the Services ("Software") is the copyrighted work of Sysinternals and/or its suppliers. Use of the Software is governed by the terms of the end user license agreement, if any, which accompanies or is included with the Software ("License Agreement"). The Software is made available
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
That's 2 pages and 1 click too many. Stop making apologies for MS' inexcusable behavior.
Customers are supposed to be King, not presumed suspect until conviction can commence.
# touch universe # chmod +rwx universe #
But you (well, we the people) can decide how the lock on a business' door is used. That's why they have signs saying doors must remain unlocked during business hours. That's not there by convention, it's mandated by law.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I have needed this utility for YEARS and I only just found out it exists!
/.
This is why I read
Chicks Have All The Fun
"Honestly, the outrageous FUD and conspiracy theories the rabidly anti-Microsoft crowd..."
Seriously, it's difficult to be outrageous when talking about Microsoft's abuses. They've already thought of most of the possibilities. People who don't work with them all the time, and who are not technically knowledgeable, generally are aware of less than 0.1% of the abuses, in my opinion.
For example, did you ever wonder how Microsoft Office became the standard office software? It's because there is a 2-tier marketplace. The first tier is that people pay a lot of money for Microsoft Office. The second tier is that people buy a cheap pirated copy of Microsoft Office. That's why Microsoft's competition was extinguished.
It is my opinion that Microsoft deliberately allows piracy, or, more accurately, is careful not to stop most of the pirates. Several years ago I got very, very upset about this, because the pirates were interfering with part of my business, reselling legal software. At that time, it was possible to call the Microsoft legal department and actually get someone on the line; now they have closed that hole. I called and ranted and ranted about the 6 distributors who were ALL selling pirated Microsoft product.
The result was that Microsoft was accidentally placed in a position that the company needed to show some action. Otherwise they were communicating too publicly that Microsoft was pursuing a deliberate policy of allowing low-level piracy. There was a court case; Microsoft's legal department asked me to be a witness, and Microsoft won its case.
Microsoft is far, far more abusive than you apparently know.
The end of free PsExec? Say this is just a bad joke..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Bill Gates is no longer with Microsoft. Besides, Ballmer looks more like Locutus already.
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
I doubt it, when you agree to the EULA's they are cleared of any damages/injuries that might be caused by using this ( shrinkwrapped, not approved for medical devices ) software.
Sure you can sue most anyone for anything, but you have little hope for a win in this case.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The "answer" is to "reinstall Windows"... often leading to forced reinstalls of everything else, sometimes data loss, and always a higher bill for fixing the system than would have been the case if you could just download the required Patch A or Utility X, using any working system you have available.
This nonsense is NOT the road to happy customers.
As you say, one does not always have the luxury of a *working* WGA-compliant OS and browser, particularly when dealing with random client setups.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
> > If WGA is wrong (Microsoft? Bugs? Never!) then a legit copy of Windows may go inactive with a major hassle to get it working again.
> Oh please, please let them do this. The lawsuit would be staggering, a
You'll notice that when Microsoft malfunctions shut down the cruiser that had to be towed into port at Norfolk, there was no lawsuit and MS was not in any way punished. The US Govt, at least, does not believe that corporations are responsible for damage they inflict on their customers.
I am certainly aware that Microsoft employees have been recommending SysInternals free utilities over Microsoft's sloppily coded and primitive utilities that do the same thing.
I am also very aware that Microsoft has no utilities at all for some of the Windows functions people need, and Microsoft employees have long been recommending SysInternals utilities for those functions.
Remember, the Windows Command Line Interface and command line utilities are upgraded DOS programs. DOS is shockingly primitive compared to the Linux command line interfaces, for example. And not all of the DOS utilities have been converted completely to 32-bit Windows; they fail in weird ways that have not been fixed even though the failures have been discussed thoroughly over the years.
The SysInternals programmers are some of the finest Windows coders in the world, if not THE finest, in my opinion. However, I don't think the SysInternals employees will stay long in the abusive and adversarial and socially backward and ignorant Microsoft climate.
I think what will happen is that Microsoft will embrace and extend and poison the SysInternals software, as they have done for the dBase language, or, much more recently, for Giant's AntiSpyware.
Microsoft began tinkering with Giant AntiSpyware, which became Windows Defender. Giant was considered the best in its field. Now the Microsoft version has problems. Sometimes, for example, it will fail, and re-installing will not fix the failure.
Of course, Giant AntiSpyware was only a bandaid for problems that exist because of Microsoft's sloppy coding that leaves huge numbers of vulnerabilities. Remember that Microsoft makes more money if there are more vulnerabilities, because people buy new computers as their old computer become slow because of infestation.
Anyone who thinks that an OS is complicated, and therefore must have vulnerabilities, should buy a secure OS like OpenBSD for $5,000 per copy. The really expensive operating system organizations can hire extremely skilled programmers who know how to eliminate vulnerabilities. Oh, wait, sorry, OpenBSD is FREE, and is coded by volunteers.
Microsoft is a socially backward and adversarial organization, in my experience, but they aren't so dumb they don't know how to hire people who can write secure software. The reason for the huge number of vulerabilities seems to be that, when a company effectively has a temporary monopoly, more vulnerabilities make more money.
Wrongo! I just checked the new EULA and you do have to happy about it. Sorry.
You should be calling Toshiba and raising hell then, because they're screwing you.
Not Meta-modding due to apathy.
http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3504780
Translation:
Get the worst thing about Linux and add it to Windows.
You must be a BSD person? OS X?
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
Maybe the guy has some actual documentation about Windows internals they can use...
You seem to be confusing proximate cause with primary cause or even sole cause.
Lets set up an A/B comparison, and see which factor elimination results in the problem not occuring again.
A) Eliminate the employee. Can situation happen again? YES. Diffiernt employee can make the same mistake.
B) Eliminate that particular tag system. Can situation happen again? NO. The possibility of making that particular mistake is eliminated.
Still looks to me as if that sstem cost me money. It might have saved the store something, but that does not automatically help my pocketbook.
As for price, I wonder where you live, because here they charge what they can maximize profit on. The system might reduce their costs, and that means they can lower their price. The ability to do so, by itself, is no inducement to do so. (It is unlikely in rge incident under discussion that competition would reduce price, as the item was an impulse buy kind of thing, not a commodity.)
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
Because otherwise it would be easier a lot to pirate the system. Look, you install Wind0ze, you wait until it validates with WGA and says "okay okay I'm leaving you alone now", after which you either try to seek out the flags etc that have been set in the registry [or whatever] and write a utility that patches not yet validated systems to this status, or you create a distribution that installs images of this already satisfied copy. That's not to say that WGA is going to work, however.
The legality of that is questionable considering the recent CleanFlicks case. The argument that the original creator is still making their money was exactly the same on that issue, but it made no difference.
There is only a difference between the two scenarios if you buy into the idea that Hollywood is fighting to save their artistic vision... the same could not be said for Microsoft... surely.....
Gideon
Mark Russinovich and Bryce Cogswell announced they are moving out of their parents' basements.
Some old downloads do not seem to contain any EULA at all (just a readme.txt with some general disclaimers)
more recent downloads (february 2006) contain a short and easily understandable EULA.
All zip files I just downloaded from sysinternals have a change date of 18.7.2006 17:53 GMT+1 (yesterday) and contain a changed and much longer EULA, that also mentions that sysinternals is a part of microsoft now
Old EULA:
NEW EULA:
"Microsoft expended massive amounts of effort making it [Microsoft Office] a better product..."
.DOC file, and you will be able to open it
again in Microsoft Office.
The last version I've used is Office 2000. It is remarkably unstable, even after all the service packs are applied.
Sometimes, after several hours of editing, Microsoft Office stops being able to read the file you've been saving. When that happens, open the file in Open Office, save it as a
Lotus Smartsuite was a contender. I liked Ventura Publisher. WordPerfect had some advantages. I liked PageMaker. They made far less money because of the widespread piracy of Microsoft Office. Eventually the quirky, closed Office file format became the business standard.
"Most - if not all - of Microsoft's supposed "abuses" are commonplace..."
They are not "supposed" abuses. They are abuses. It doesn't matter how commonplace they are. They are abuses.
Yet the fact remains that you continue to shop at stores that have shoplifting detectors even though you're "constantly suspected of being a thief" as dupont54 so (apparently) insightfully put it. Somehow though, "being constantly suspected of being a thief by Microsoft" is vastly different. Yeah, right.
The torrrent referenced in the parent has a current set of the utilities. The last-changed dates are this month, at least on important ones such as Process Monitor and regmon. Also a new EULA.txt in each file as another poster mentioned.
There is a new torrent now, pre-MS versions. http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3504886 See notes therein.
What a pile-of-shit argument.
Can you be assured that none of the Windows exploits are not attributable to Open Source software? No? Then you better stop using open source software!
At least try to be logical, please.
perhaps many of those great tools will soon be officially bundled by default as part of sys admin tools in windows...
I've had mine fail before. I had reinstalled my Windows a few times with significantly different hardware configurations in a very short time (about 4 installs across as many days). A 5 minute phone call to the freecall number they give you (at about 11PM), and it was fixed - no questions asked.
If a surgeon botches your valve replacement:
a) Are you dead? Probably, and this is bad for you personally.
b) Eliminate the particular surgeon. Can the situation from happen again? Yes. Different surgeon can make the same mistake.
c) Eliminate heart surgery. Can the situation happen again? No. The possibility of making that particular mistake is eliminated. But people are being inconvenienced, possibly dying).
d) Should the technique be banned because you are personally inconvenienced (even by death) by a rare but fatal exception to the regular success of the operation? Absolutely not. Asking to eliminate something that provides broad benefit due to personal distaste for potential negative consequences would be incredibly selfish.
There are 1.1... kinds of people.
At the bottom of the EULA included with Process Explorer, that I just downloaded:
OTHER INFORMATION.
Sysinternals is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Microsoft Corporation.
Nice.
The first time I tried opening a large .doc file in Open Office, it crashed. Now I wouldn't expect a non-MS word processor to open a Word document: unless it course, it claimed to be compatible. The best thing that could happen to OO is to be honest about it's limited compatability with MS Office.
If Microsoft does start Windows' inactivating (especially on false premises such as this) its bound to have a negative impact on their sells; and of course anything that would do such is have dire importance to Microsoft. Its only a matter of time before this is either old news (if it doesn't act like M$ software) or be removed/replaced (if it does act like M$ software and cause migration to other OSs).
"How the fuck can two people doing third party apps be *better* than the people that design the frigging OS?"
What do you mean? Half the Slashdotters believe that they could do a better job improving Windows than the people who designed it and most of them haven't written any Windows apps. The difference is that in the case of these two guys, it might actually be true.
I'll give it a month before it refreshes to microsoft.com...
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Well, this is scary, especially since I just renewed my maintanence. My real concern is about the USB dongle that protects the Winternals programs. I know they are fairly durable, but they are hardware and hardware always breaks at some point. If I can't get a replacement dongle from Microsoft, then my expensive tools become expensive coasters. But there is even something more interesting to consider. (Hey Pamala at Groklaw, are you listening?) I remember reading some time back that Copyright Office has issued exceptions to the DCMA for software protected by dongles where the company is either no longer in business or no longer making dongles. If Microsoft kills off the Winternals tools and stops selling replacement dongles, efforts by them to prevent users from haking the program to eliminate the dongle could be illegal. (Standard IANL disclaimer applies.) Thoughts?
With that out of the way. Let's move on. The reason for this aquisition is pretty simple. Business. Good business. Whatever their TRUE reasons, I suspect it has something to do with A. Licensing. (I'm sure someone here thinks that perhaps a few MS employees utilize some of this software?). B. It's better for them to be working WITH MS, and improving Windows, than potentially for a competitor.
I don't think these tools are going away. More likely, they (in one form or another) will eventually be incorporated in various "Resource Kits" which are already PUBLICLY available for download (anyone here ever use robocopy? I do, and love it, fantastic command line copy utility). Why? Because it's GOOD BUSINESS. MS may be many things, but it is, first and foremost, a BUSINESS. Bent on world domination maybe, but a business nonetheless... I for one welcome our new Microsoft/WinInternals Overlords.
*Anti-FLame shield UP!*
It's just as well that it's Microsoft who acquired them, because this month's Internet bandwidth bill is going to be monstrous now that half of Slashdot has decided to download every one of the free utilities from the website. :)
You want to also use the -u switch to specify a different account if you want to keep your username out of the system logs on the cube mates computer.
The can't find the manuals!
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
You do know that most Sysinternals tools use APIs that are not part of the Win32 spec but are the native Windows NT APIs? And that most tools install drivers on the fly while running to get more intrinsic information out? That's what makes them so good.
I guess that Wine is simply made compatible enough to support productivity apps and games.
"There is only a difference between the two scenarios if you buy into the idea that Hollywood is fighting to save their artistic vision... the same could not be said for Microsoft... surely....."
That's kinda the idea here; Cleanflicks lost on that point, but Microsoft couldn't really argue it; There's no artistic vision, just the idea that they (supposedly) are answering to the needs of the consumer. Something like this is double edged; it makes windows look better if it's popular, and Microsoft can become hip to things they should do with Windows.
Or not. A better concept here is, once word gets out, to propose the idea of a partnership doing this sort of thing.
Of course, Microsoft will argue that it amounts to a gateway to piracy. After all, pre-keying a Genuine windows disc is tantamount to forcing the end-user, at gunpoint, to make an image of the disc and upload it to the nearest torrent site, post haste. [/sarcasm]
110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
"The first time I tried opening a large .doc file in Open Office, it crashed."
.DOC files since version 2.
I've had that problem, too. But the latest version of Open Office seems very much improved. My experience has been that OO has done quite well with
The whole point of the very quirky Microsoft Office file format, it seems, is to be as incompatible and incomprehensible as possible. So, it is understandable that OO would have difficulty.
The Microsoft Office file format is part of Microsoft's unearned monopoly, an effective monopoly attained by trickery rather than caring for the customer and the people of the world. If Bill Gates truly cared about other people, he would have made good software products.
I was not claiming that OpenBSD is the equivalent of Microsoft Windows XP. I was only claiming that it is easily possible to create extremely complicated software that has very, very, very few vulnerabilities. That, to me, indicates that Microsoft doesn't want few vulnerabilities.
Already Microsoft Vista is being sold as the secure Windows, and Microsoft Windows OneCare is a profit center for Microsoft to protect you from problems Microsoft made. See the article, A Microsoft Safety Package. Grit Your Teeth.
"The whole point of the very quirky Microsoft Office file format, it seems, is to be as incompatible and incomprehensible as possible. So, it is understandable that OO would have difficulty"
Quirky or not, the point is that you shouldn't claim compatability if you don't have it.
"The Microsoft Office file format is part of Microsoft's unearned monopoly, an effective monopoly attained by trickery rather than caring for the customer and the people of the world."
MS office has nothing to do with the Windows "monopoly" unearned or otherwise. The problem is that sometimes believing in all the Anti-MS rhetoric may actually make you less able to compete with them. For example, the concern for compatiblity with Office to a great extent is based on the theory that people want to use Office only because they're supposedly "locked-in". The fact is that many people like Office and have a lot of time invested in learning it.
So if you truly want to compete with Office, you have to give a better reason than (sort of) file compatiblity.
Come to think of it, if a store body cavity searched me on a daily basis (no matter how gentle), analogous to WGA's daily delve into my whole system followed by a phone home, I DO think I might stop shopping there.
How about you?
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
"... singling out Microsoft when every other company does the same thing, is blatant hypocrisy."
I am CERTAINLY not saying only Microsoft is abusive. The U.S. government has invaded 24 countries since the 2nd world war, and killed people and destroyed their property in each of them.
Consider also the Enron fraud, the WorldCom fraud, and the Tyco fraud.
Being dead, the chance of a dupicate error is rather more remote than a teller screwing up removing a dye spurting anti-shoplift tag. So do you really think you can make the situation analogy really parallel?
Beyond that the valve is really part of the 'product' not an temporary aspect of the process. I never proposed eliminating the product.
Lets see if your analogy can be adjusted. Perhaps the surgeon uses his nifty new laser scapel to do the operation, and its set a tad too high and slices right into the heart. Why yes, indeed I might pick skipping the laser scapel, and sticking with a regular scapel for operation part deux.
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
no way, Toshiba sold a working product. Microsoft is the product breaker here.
Now we will soon be able to download service packs of all sysinternal utilities.
Do you actually have any proof to support your "DOS ain't done till Lotus wont run" claim? That's just about as widespread, and just as unproven as the " who would ever need more than 640KB of ram" crap that gets repeated here over and over again.
s _aint_done_t.html which has quotes from both microsoft and lotus dispelling that myth, and http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2004/0 8/12/213681.aspx explaining why windows 3 did the check for incompatible DOS installations.
/.
If you bothered to google your quote, you'd come up with http://www.proudlyserving.com/archives/2005/08/do
As someone has already pointed out above, the "DOS aint done" myth was already exposed right here on
Slashdot needs a -1, Factually incorrect mod.
Congratulations, Congratulations, Congratulations. Its not that readers don't know any other compliments, its that "Congratulations" is such an hypocritical praise. It is said with the mouth half closed when the truth is not appropriate and the Future is uncertain.
Well we are all crying out here. And not the kind of cry when we where born, when we took our first breath, and are all anticipating the life we will have. But the kind of weep we have when our father dies, and all thats left behind is his legacy and our, now painful, memory. So you weep and slowly you realize that Life will (have to) go on without the help and guide of the one person in the world that only wants our well been, even over his own. The one that catches us when we fall, the one that saves us when Sony turns Big-Brother. Fer well our fathers, have a good time in moneys heaven. It will happen to us but not yet.
Father, you went to the sky, flying among the clouds, riding on a Dragon, traveling the endless road which is You and me and my child
So you're complaining that Microsoft, who now own Winternals and therefore have the right to release it with any terms they chose (remember, you can also chose not to use it) are releasing it under terms that *you* are unhappy with? Get a grip. What reason does Microsoft (a commercial entity, who make money by selling Windows) have to make *their* software compatible with WINE, ReactOS, or any other Windows emulator?
How exactly does rarring the files result in less seeds...?
I have no sig yet I must scream.
You will need a Windows system to actually use those tools, so Windows Genuine Advantage will be a wall for only those who are not using a legitimate copy of Windows. I guess that is a reasonable limitation for them to make.
(This sig intentionally left blank)
BE CAREFUL! Deselecting the WGA download means it won't be offered to you again but it will be offered to every user who has admin rights until they install it or deselect it too.
The clothing also doesn't suddenly stop working and fall to the ground in pieces, or flashing a bright red "this item may be stolen" message in the middle of an important presentation or job interview.
Not true. Many new power tools come with an unremovable theft prevention collar on the power cord. It will be there forever, unless I dremel it off.
The kernel of ReactOS is a clone of the NT kernel and can run drivers. My point is that checks for whether your OS is a lawfully made copy are neutral to good, but checks for whether it was published by Microsoft are bad. Remember Windows 3 betas and the AARD code to lock out DR-DOS?
"The fact is that many people like Office and have a lot of time invested in learning it."
Yes, they have invested a lot of time learning it. I don't know people who "like" Microsoft Office. Some users can be given OpenOffice and not notice a difference. Others, very understandably, have learned to use Microsoft Office and don't want to invest time learning something new.
Only those who know two or more ways of capturing and formatting keystrokes and printing them can choose one or the other as something they "like".
My guess is that people who had invested an equal amount of time in Open Office would prefer that, and wouldn't want to change.
No. Better is not using a closed format that is the hands of one single proprietary vendor. This has nothing to do with philosophy, or not being allowed to make money, or anything. It has everything to do with being practical, being able to use the files in years to come, choosing the tools you want, and not fucking doing torrents the wrong fucking way. Oh, and not having to do third party installs on every single computer just for some COMPRESSION.
RAR had a place once, before torrents and tiger tree hashes, now it is just Cargo Cult (look it up if you need to).
Clearer?
Pretty sure it does, yes. Cargo Cult means the practice of repeating something done before without any understanding of why, in a way that doesn't work or at least is contra-productive. RAR once had a place before torrents and tiger tree hashes, because it could split files, thus helping with corrupt parts. Now torrents and TTH handle the splitting themselves, better than split files ever could, and torrents at least support downloading only certain files out from a torrent - if they are not packed together in an archive. Compression is often neglible and with bandwidths these days rarely an issue (1MB diff on 100 isn't gonna matter much even on 56k for that matter). Most people who download a RAR stop seeding it because they've unpacked it and see no reason to keep the stupid archive (often quoted problem with seeders at say TPB, unRARed gets lots more seeders always).
Still, millions of people still use RAR and the reasons they quote, if they have any at all, are the old ones that are invalid. Mostly it's just done because they've learned that this is the way you do it. Much like tribal people once learned that if you have an airplane, you get cargo - so they built more.
It's just so bloody depressingly stupid.
Laputan Machine
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
I'm being perfectly logical.
I wasn't arguing against using WGA. I was just saying that there's no reason to be sure WGA doesn't cause problems. In other words, you can't prove a negative. On the other hand, what other major piece of Microsoft software doesn't have exploitable flaws?
Perhaps you should respond to what I am actually saying rather than what you think I am saying, or whatever straw man statement you want me to be saying so you can gratuitously deny my assertions.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
So you're saying that the Sysinternals tools are explicitly checking whether the OS it runs on is really Windows? Maybe they're doing you a favour in case your OS is not 100% compatible. Maybe they choose to make tools that run only on Windows, and support it only on Windows.
Why should low level debugging tools be made cross-platform?
Dave
Flatlander Woman.
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
GNU for win32, binaries and all
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/wget.htm
This seems kind of strange. These tools access the "internals" of Windows and were written without access to the Windows source code. Couldn't Microsoft, having possession of their own source code, done better? What am I missing here? If I got this right, then this is just plain sad, that this big, bloated company would actually need to make this purchase just to acquire software and knowledtge. But then again, maybe there were other reasons for the purchase.
Thanks for letting your hatred of Microsoft blind you to the obvious. WGA, anti-theft tags and surgery are broadly beneficial when the processes surrounding them operate in the intended manner in the vast majority of instances, and the form of your argument is broken in that it can be trivially altered to falsely conclude that almost any product or procedure and its supersets should not be used because of a few exceptional unskilled operators.
Let's try this:
I unintentionally rm -rf / on a company file server:
A) Eliminate the employee. Can situation happen again? YES. Diffiernt employee can make the same mistake.
B) Eliminate that particular operating system. Can situation happen again? NO. The possibility of making that particular mistake is eliminated.
Still looks to me as if the operating system cost me money. It might have saved the sysadmin something, but that does not automatically help the company's data.
Or this:
A malware came by e-mail.
A) Eliminate the e-mail client. Can situation happen again? YES. Diffiernt e-mail client can download the same malware.
B) Eliminate the Internet / computers / electricity / Earth / the universe. Can situation happen again? NO. The possibility of being exposed to that particular threat eliminated.
Still looks to me as if the Internet / computers / electricity / Earth / the universe cost me money. etc.
I'm just hoping that this obviously bright and hardworking fella didn't make a deal that he can't wiggle out of.
If you are bright enough then you can make a deal with them that you no longer need to be a hardworking fella.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
My mail server that requires me to login is not persistant. It has no way of knowing that I'm the same person who knew the password yesterday. Windows, on the other hand, is persistant when installed by a valid user/owner. It is installed once, verified to be valid, and that is not going to change.
And do you think that someone who is using a pirated copy is not then just going to go get a different key, find the latest wga patch to fake verification, etc? Do you think that there's not going to be a crack for it out within a day even though there is for everything else? The only person it's going to negatively effect is the person who legitimately purchased XP, installed it, was verified to be good and then later someone pirates it, uses their reg key (it's already happened), and now their valid copy of windows is no longer valid because MS decided it needed to check every day. The valid user now has to call MS on the phone, try to prove they're the rightful, valid, owner of the license (I'm not sure if this has been attempted or how well it worked, but they shouldn't have to in any case) or potentially go buy yet another copy of windows (assuming they still want to use windows). The pirate who used the key? They'll just input a new one and get on with their day, barely inconvenienced because they know that's part of pirating windows and knew from the beginning.
I have used this NT password blanker floppy, & it works like an ace. The main drawback is it can't change the syskey-style password, you either have to (a) disable syskey and live with insecurely short LANMAN style passwords until the next OS reinstall, or (b) get a one-time shot at logging in as admin and then change your passwords again in the control panel.
Worse yet, my wife bought a dress and didn't find the inktag on it until a few weeks later. Where did we buy it? Where's the reciept? Fortuneately the tags are fairly easy to defeat...the flat end has an ink vial but the pointy half has a spring clutch. The store removes the tag by magnetically pulling the mechanism down against the spring force. To defeat it, hacksaw off the pointy tip and the spring will pop out, releasing the clutch.
Oh, so I'm a troll because I don't see a reason for Microsoft to support Wine, Cedega, and ReactOS? These projects are not their customers, and actively trying to woo away those customers. Yet Microsoft is supposed to happily support them?
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
Wow! You mean you've identified the ACTUAL direct advantage that immediately benefits the legal licencee in direct consequence of his installing WGA vs not installing it? Not an indirect benefit, like 'Whats good for Microsoft is good for the USA' or benefit used as a euphensism, as in 'Say, nice store you got here. Be a shame if something were to happen to it. Consider the benefits of subscribing to our neighborhood watch program'.
Cool! No one else seems to have. Please share.
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
Google TinyXP and I think you'll have a head-start on what you're looking for there ;-)
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
"My mail server that requires me to login is not persistant"
And the windows update server that requires you to validate is persistant?
I'm not saying that the method being used works perfectly, and when things go wrong for a valid user, of cause they have a valid complaint. What I do object to, however, is all this "how dare they suspect me of being a thief!" comments of people turning themselves into poor pathetic victims because all of a sudden there's a validation process attached to recieving software. Wake up, pretty much everything requires validation, especially software support, including many enterprise level Linux distro's. If you have trouble validating your key because some software "pirate" has used it, well it's that person who's screwing things up for you (who also happen to be the party breaking the law), not the people who've written the software.
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
Sysinternals utilities all in one pack (7.19.06) in 7z format. ;)s _all_in_one.7z.html
http://s21.quicksharing.com/v/8558154/Sysinternal
Not necessarily, but the Windows Genuine Advantage checks in future versions might.
What if I want to try to make my OS closer to 100% compatible?
If future versions of the Sysinternals tools add this check, this could look like predatory behavior if Microsoft flexes revenue from its Windows monopoly to acquire developers of debugging tools for NT-compatible operating systems and force the tools to work only in its own operating system.
Because they allow developers and users to determine the deficiencies in the competing platform.
Apparently someone works for Microsoft.