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The Unauthorized State-Owned Chinese Disneyland
rmnoon writes "Apparently Japanese TV and bloggers have just discovered Disney's theme park in China, where young children can be part of the Magic Kingdom and interact with their favorite characters (like Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, and the Seven Dwarfs). The park's slogan is 'Because Disneyland is Too Far,' and there's even an Epcot-like dome. The only problem? Disney didn't build it, and they didn't authorize it. What's more? It's state-owned!"
Take that Eisner!
Today, Disney. Tomorrow, GM. Get used to it.
..that the war between China and the United States is more of a legislative and economic one fought with dollars and cents. China and the Taliban don't need to take us by force, they simply need to take over our economy. China by manufacturing and selling unauthorized patented and copywritten equipment and now theme parks. We do all of the research and development, and they sell it at cost with no reimbursement, thus destroying our system of innovation, and allowing them to turn the world back into the stone age. The Taliban will take us by causing us to put all of our tax payers dollars into ammo.
Sig: I stole this sig.
Here's a picture from 10 April. Look at #2.
I've heard the Tiananmen Square Tank-Dodgems are really popular, although I think most children go to see the big cuddly cat, Chairman Meow.
Considering Disney has made a big deal about people getting tattoos of Disney characters, I can't imagine this will go over well. Actually, I didn't really believe it until I saw a couple other sources.
wow... just wow.... I guess the Chinese really can copy just about anything.... for a culture that is striving for innovation and an independent economy..... I would just think that copying your rivals wouldn't be very conducive to that, but thats just me.
Last time I checked, Snow White and the Seven Dwarves was in Grimm's Fairy Tales, a compilation of European folk stories that existed long before Walt Disney or copyright/trademark laws. As the dad of three, it bugs me more than a little when Disney Inc attempts to own childhood fantasy and retroactively copyright/trademark/turn-into-disney-IP all kinds of things that were part of the childhood psyche-scape long before Uncle Walt was even born.
never ask a question you don't want to know the answer to
I'm sure that every chinese person was going to go to the real disneyland, but with this fake one, what's the point? No need to spend thousands of dollars that you "have," no-sirree!
It *is* a Small World(TM) after all!
In America, Disney owns the government. In Soviet China, the government owns Disney!!!
Or something like that.
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
I don't think you understand. China is a country. A large one. Disney is a company, one whose wishes are only enforced because some countries (eg. U.S., European countries) have agreed to use their police and border guards to enforce Disney's wishes. Clearly China doesn't agree to use its police/border guards in that way, and unless a small company has a remote chance of taking on a large country (be it economically or militarily), Disney really doesn't have much say in the matter. (granted, futuristic SciFi novels about corporations having more power than countries are interesting to read, but we're not there yet)
P.S. Ron Paul bumper stickers are available at cafepress.com.
The domain name is bs-amusement-park.com, BS? BS!? Come on, at least give us a challenge to poke fun at the name, this is too easy. :P
Carbon based humanoid in training.
Why is Disney now part of the United States? There are more disneylands around the world than here. They sell more worldwide than in the US. They're an international conglomerate that profits people in many, many countries and many areas.
It's like Ikea. Ikea may have started in Finland, but they employ and enrich a heck of a lot of Americans. Toyota might have started in japan, but the US would take quite a hit if they suddenly wholesale pulled out of here.
The world is not a bunch of governments ruling over these little corporations who spread their tentrils forth for the motherland. Companies superceed governments. Sony exists as much in England and Europe as Japan, and does as much R&D around the world as in their original country. Sega was started by an American in Japan, and whose japanese-sounding name is actually an abbreviation for SErvice and GAmes. We think of Burger King as an amercan company because it started here. In Thailand, they think of Burger King as a Thai company, because the people who work there are Thai, the people who eat there are Thai, the people who make the Thai commercials for Burger King are Thai. Any given piece of electronics is likely to have bits designed in the US, EU, China, India, and many other places.
Companies are not part of a government. They are their own entities in a parallel system.
The ______ Agenda
This is an interesting expression of the saturation of global culture, and how, despite the perceived barriers between easter and western societies, these gaps are slowly dissolving. What i find most interesting is that, as far as i can tell, the park is so popular - legal issues aside, this does imply within the Chinese population some tension between the west and the east has been eased. Although this is perhaps not the best place to find shared cultural values, it is a start, and i think it would do well for Disney not to castigate the government of China, but rather try to reach some sort of compromise or understanding. Unfortunately, being that they are a corporation, it is unlikely that they will see anything but a lawsuit. One can hope, but that hope is likely misplaced.
Unathorised by Disney. Illegal, no, unless Disney has registered a copyright on all the contents. They probably have registered copyrights on some of the stuff but probably never thought that someone would copy the WHOLE of their theme parks!
So, I've heard of bootleg DVDs, bootleg CDs, bootleg Rolex watches... but I think this has to be the world's first bootleg amusement park!
Actually I hope you're already used to it. GM already lost a case - several years ago - where a Chinese manufacturer ripped off, bolt-for-bolt, panel-for-panel, an entire car and then released it to market BEFORE GM did! Brazen as hell. Toyota has also had problems in China for theft and such. I think when foreigners wake up to the fact that there's not really that much money to be made in China they might not be so enthusiastic about jumping in. For instance, huge numbers of cars are made over there, but everyone's killing each other on price. The Chinese are happy about it (they get new factories, trained workers, cars, etc.), but I don't think the foreigners are making any money.
Plus, as I referenced yesterday when commenting on this alarmist post about how the US may soon have "no comparative advantage" - China is not all it's cracked up to be.
Thing is, no one's making money in China, except for a few well-positioned people who can grease the right wheels. Nothing to see here, move along, it's the same old mercantilism and cronyism we find in all non-free markets. The sheer balls of the park manager telling the camerman they "newly invented" the characters ("It's not a mouse, it's a cat with big ears!") is classic.
This guy should be the new Iraqi Information Minister.
--
learnjapanese.poddedcell.net -- Step Up Nihongo, learn Japanese
Just wait until they can fit all of Disneyland on one bootleg HDDVD or BluRay Disc.
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
What? You mean that doesn't happen in free markets? I'm sure Bush and his Dick will be surprised to hear that!
I hate printers.
For how long should disney really have monopoly on Winnie the Pooh for example.
I think it is time that the copyrights from 1920 or so expire for the enjoyment of all.
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
Why do you assume anyone can take on China? They have the largest army in the world and manufactor a massive amount of stuff for the rest of the world. China has a lot more power than people assume and if you got into a war with them you would most likely lose on "fair terms" (aka no nukes, which if you used would probably get you nuked back any way).
They have a massive amount of man power and would be extremely difficult to fight considering all the manufactoring plants they have that could be turned to weapons think of everything China makes changed to make guns and basic body armour, you could fit the entire country out in weeks).
I like muppets.
I've always loved that theme from the movie. Kinda puts the whole "terrorists don't fight fair" thing into perspective.
I hate printers.
It looks like we'll have resurrect Sonny Bono and install him as our new ambassador to China.
What?
I bet the government built the fake Disney as a way to avoid further international embarrasment related to overcrowding at the real China Disney in Hong Kong.
The crowds swelled beyond belief during the Chinese New Year in 2006. Parents were so distraught that they started throwing their kids over the entry gates. There were some hilarious videos of this floating around out there. Can anyone find a link?
My Chinese colleagues all say that they'd much rather NOT buy most Chinese goods (except food---I have to say that authentic Chinese food is the best in the world, almost regardless of what it is, or what style it's in) because of their poor quality. Plumbing, especially, and electronics.
OBL has openly written that they are out to destroy our economy. He wants us in the same boat that Russia was. So far, W. is helping him out.
As to China, they are trying to position themselves to own the world economy and then control countries in manners that they see fit(a MUCH larger USA with a nastier attitude). It is not the stealing of ideas that is doing this. It is the fact that they have tied their money to our money at a fixed rate. If it was allowed to float, then it would have increased in a big way by now. Others have dredged up the typical neo-con argument that this helps the economy. And for a short-term, they are correct. But it destroys the manufacturing (read tax) base. Another argument is that China holds a huge amount of our cash. And they will laugh if it falls, so long as they are in control. In the past, America had large natural resources to fall in during those times. Not anymore. What this means is that when China wants to pull the rug on us, they will be in control. And that is going to happen in about another 15 years (or less).
W.'s going to argue about the copyright and patents is almost akin to chargin Charlie Manson with litter AND making a big deal of it. It totally ignores the real problems.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Of course, the US government is more or less controlled by companies, including Disney. Thus the WTO complaint mentioned in the article. It'll be interesting to see if the US government is willing to actually do anything serious over this though.
It seems pretty common sense to me that would be the model China is striving for. First you play catch-up to your competitors (imitation), then you work on surpassing them (innovation).
It helps that everyone is paying them for the first part and probably has sent the expertise and machinery and whatnot over there as well because of the cheap labor.
Japan itself has started out in the steel industry as a low-end producer (rebar) that the US steel giants didn't mind because that part of the business of low-end and low-margin that it let them "focus" on the high-end high margin stuff. This allowed Japan to get a foothold in the door and they are now one of the largest producers of steel while the US steel industry is in the dumps.
I presume you're talking about "them" calling "us" and saying "we've decided not to buy your government-issued debt anymore." Problem is, what would they invest their 1 trillion in government funds in then? It's not like there are that many - if any - safer alternatives? Euro bonds? Uhhh ... what was that long-term growth rate again? Yen? yeah right, the Chinese? Swiss Francs? Uhh ... sure it's a hard currency, but how much of it can you liquidate when you need to? Dollars are still the best place to park savings.
Also, China exports vast quantities to the US - they'd never cause our economy to "crash" if they could help it. It would create massive social unrest over there (and they can barely keep a cap on what they've got happening even right now). China's going to have many, many significant, huge, social problems in the mid-term. Their "one country, two systems" thing is inherently unstable and will fail. If China ever copies the fine pre-handover Hong Kong example which the British left the world, then move over U.S., because we're going to get trounced. In the meantime, China will simply remain a cheap place to manufacture lower-technology goods. I include computers and HDTVs in the "lower-technology goods" category. They've got far to much to lose to damage us that way.
But one of the above posters is totally correct: The real threat - the one thing that could bring us down - is ourselves. FDR was right about fear. If the US goes down, it'll be because we did it to ourselves.
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for more on this topic, check yesterday's post.
-- Step Up Nihongo (learnjapanese.poddedcell.net)
This is progress
If by "progress," you mean the erosion of any incentive for long-haul, difficult, expensive creative projects that don't involve performing in bars, then, sure, I guess.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Looking at some of the photoes, they look like they are taken of random parades or people who are dressed up, and some of the buildings shown appear to be models or mockups.
Lots of more or less well know characters appear throughout it all, and it all look really cheaply made (in the bad sense, those costumes are baaadly made).
I can't help but rate this very high on the fake-o-meter, at least until we get more from a well known source.
Carbon based humanoid in training.
Don't hold your breath.
The United States is so dependent on cheap crap made in China it's not even funny. Take a look around your house and look for "Made in China". There's a good chance you have more stuff made in China than made in all other countries combined. Any serious trade embargos against China would end up hurting us a whole lot more than it would hurt them.
And don't even think about war. China has nukes. Not to mention they can have more people in their army than the U.S. has people. And then there's the fact we're already spread pretty thin in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Maybe not
Get used to it.
Nothing a good, structured tax/tariff structure can't correct with regards to allowing shoddy imports to undercut quality. The idea is to reverse the damage done by that region of the world to our domestic industries (who seem to have done better in terms of quality when allowed to build domestic). Just enough that companies get the hint not to use countries like Mexico and regions of the world such as Asia to undercut domestic labor- which would be used as a retraining fund.
Today, Disney. Today, GM
What do you expect from a part of the world that seems to have forgotten quality, but how to become a large black hole for industries of other regions of the world? Certainly you cannot expect quality for a place like China.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Government-issued contracts for rebuilding previously state-owned assets in warzones certainly aren't decided in a "free market." No real capitalist would likely go into such a place anyhow, because they are highly concerned about preserving capital and war is the worst destroyer of capital ever.
Bush and his cronies are NOT operating in a free market. They're a bunch of rent-seekers who couldn't make it in a free market - or got lazy and decided to use influence to create money, instead of hard work.
It's because people allow themselves to be hoodwinked into believing that they are in a free market that we have trouble. Take, for instance, the people who claim the California energy deregulation was a failure of free markets - when in actuality it wasn't a free market at all.
--
learnjapanese.poddedcell.net -- Step Up Nihongo
Yeah, I'm sure that China will pay just as much attention to those WTO rulings as, say, the U.S. has to the internet-gambling rulings.
DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
That wasn't said, although I can see how, if you go in with the mindset that you will find some way to bash Bush in anything, you would infer it.
The point is, in China, that's all there is to be had. That's certainly not the case in the US.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
I heard they downloaded the Disney theme with bittorrent.
I don't know what to do when standard anti-socialism and anti-IP /. dogma clash. Who's side are we supposed to be on on this one.
Oh come ON! Corporations are the least likely to invest in the long-haul stuff. What they do is give puny donations to universities, who then spend millions of tax-payer dollars in R&D, and right at the end, your corporation will come back, patent the idea, and cry blue murder if someone suggests that it's not theirs .
Anyway, what exactly did Disney do that's so fucking special? If the Chinese government want to open an amusement park, who the hell are you or Disney to say what they're allowed to be amused at? Do you think the sky will fall if Chinese kids can see Mickey Mouse without paying excessive ( particularly in their terms ) kick-backs to US corporations?
2) Vastly superior numbers != military advantage
3) I only mentioned war as a distant possibility
War with China?!?! Are you nucking futs? China is pretty scary...If they want to have their own Disneyland I say more power to them. No need to go to war with them...
Bite my shiny metal ass.
...and unless a small company has a remote chance of taking on a large country (be it economically or militarily), Disney really doesn't have much say in the matter.And this would be a good reason why I laugh at the so called International Court systems. If an American company manages to make a profit through ANY type of help by the government everyone in the world screams. China blatantly rips off a corporation and "nothing can be done." WTF? If the WTO and other organizations are that weak, why the HELL to we keep kowtowing to every stupid little demand they toss our way.
This would be a good time for America to slap huge tariffs on all Chinese products until this type of blatant crap is stopped. If Wallyworld has to pay $500 for that cheaply made American flag, I'm sure they'll find someone else to make them than the Chinese.
Let's just say "Screw China." They've never been our friends and they are working on destroying us economically and eventually politically. That's why they try to buy our politicians. How come everyone gets upset when the US tries to influence an election somewhere else (That's IMPERIALISM!) But when they try to buy the Clinton White House, no one says crap about it. How come THAT isn't Imperialism? Oh, cause they're a Communist country why they couldn't POSSIBLY have any Imperialist plans.
Sigh... Sorry... Button pushed...
- No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades really cramps his style.
Intellectual property is a Take-Away. That's one copy of Vista Ultimate, and a scale-replica of Disneyland to go!
Why is china nibbling on their own foot?
A war between China and the US would be a lot more evenly matched than you realise, sheer weight of numbers friend.
"Let China sleep for when she awakes, she will shake the world" - Napoleon Bonaparte
As long as they repeat GM's unprofitability, the world has nothing to fear.
There's nothing a rewrite of the Buy America law won't fix if you can hoodwink the business lobby. Of course, you could make it possible to give them a tax break if they redirected money from their foreign arm to the domestic one - since all they really care to do is to starve the UAW bound side to bankruptcy.
Do that, and you might be able to take care of the pesky manufacturers from the Land of the Rising Sun by closing those two loopholes as well.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
My feeling is that any economy built upon intellectual property is a house of cards. Sooner or later, someone just decides not to play. They simply declare themselves as rich as you are. It's like a bubble market: it only has value as long as everyone buys into the delusion that it has value ... then it goes "pop!".
If a country with all the manufacturing infrastructure and a country with all the legal IP rights to that tech have a conflict, is there really any doubt who wins?
I hope that was a joke and not serious advocacy of war - the USA couldn't handle a war against Iran at this point without WWII style sacrifices and a war against China would be suicidal. Most of the military allies of the USA do more trade with China than the USA so it would be a solo effort without even financial support and an economic disaster within weeks (a big chunk of the US economy is banks borrowing money from China to lend to poeple to build houses) . Even small wars have consequences for decades. There are idiots that would like to start a cold war with China for distraction and personal gain but they are idiots with very little respect for the law.
This is obviously the definition of chutzpah.
They've never been our friends
Who the hell is?
Granted, the translation of whats happening in the video could be a lie, but they claim the President of the park said that they were not copying Disney. Really now, that guy needs to grow some balls. In his situation, "Heck yeah we copied Disney! What the hell are they gonna do about it? This is China!" would have been a more fitting response. Despite the long history of the stories themselves, those were pretty obviously characters based on the Disney versions. Except Shrek... that'll piss of Dreamworks. And who owns Hello Kitty?
Not only that ... China is a country WITH ITS OWN LAWS. And as demonstrated on things much more serious than Disneyland they give a royal crap on US' laws (eg: personal liberties, freedom of speech/press), they couldn't care less about the differences.
Mickey's image and most Characters from the 20s and 30s are in the public domain in a lot of countries around the world. With the obvious exception of the US and the countries strongarmed (or not) to extend the copyright laws.
It would be ironic to find ppl outraged at this and just replying with a "well tings are different in China" whenever somthing about the Chinese Firewall, and its enforcements are posted.
That's an interesting comparison between a company and a country. Nevertheless, consider a scenario where a cheap electronics company in China calls itself "Intel", has the same logo, floods the market with vastly inferior chips and most of all, state supported. Now what do you think Intel/US can do about this?
Not to beat a dead horse too much, but Iraq is pretty much just the United States. Sure, you have handfulls of assorted other countries ... but nothing significant. Thats still going on, so I would say its in the realm of "recent".
Let's just say "Screw China." They've never been our friends and they are working on destroying us economically and eventually politically.
Why stop there? Maybe it'd be time to throw the whole region and the nearby subcontinent in with them for certain industries. When all the damage has been cleaned up, maybe consider them on a policy that gives US citizens a more comfortable transition. There are some things that economists just will never understand in terms of humanity - and they would do well to at least try.
That's why they try to buy our politicians.
And the finishing touch is to have this wolf in sheep's clothing make sure nothing gets in the way of globalization.
Sigh... Sorry... Button pushed...
Don't be. The less junk coming from that region of the world, and the less of them stealing jobs and university slots, the better.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
There is nothing legally wrong with the Chinese government doing this; they're a sovereign country, they get to decide how much copyright and trademark law they want to have. Now, the US government can say "poor ol' Disney is suffering, we'd like you to stop this, so let's make a deal". But arguments like "it's not right" aren't going to be very convincing.
They're particularly unconvincing given that, by all rights, Mickey Mouse ought to be in the public domain by now. Other nations can have completely reasonable copyright terms and Mickey Mouse would still be in the public domain. It's the US that's unusual and unreasonable by having protected Mickey Mouse for another couple of decades through the Sonny Bono copyright extension act.
The public domain and limited copyright terms, two basic American rights, have been under attack in the US for the past century, and they have been replaced, effectively, with unlimited ownership of intellectual property. That's the real problem we need to address because that's what's really un-American.
Now here's a menacing image: http://www.japanprobe.com/2007/01/fake-donald-duck .jpg
I remember having childhood nightmares that began a lot like that...
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Hmm, most Disney characters are based on stories that have been in the public domain for centuries and the ones they did invent, should have been in the public domain decades ago.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Hmm, well, I guess Disney has about as much right to Snowwhite as Coca Cola has to Santa Claus...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
What this means is that when China wants to pull the rug on us, they will be in control. And that is going to happen in about another 15 years (or less).
I doubt it. If there is one good thing that king jr has done in his utterly fucked up administration, is convice the world at large that we are armed and irrational. While china COULD try to screw over the reigning military superpower, is it really wise to poke a stick at the mad dog with all the nukes and carriers? 15 years from now, we might be poorer, but will will still have lots of bombs and missiles. No, they will continue to grow themselves in an ecenomic fashion. They are really a capitalist autocracy, as opposed to anything communist these days.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Howso? A war between the US and China would require troops/material/focus that the US doesn't have right now because of iraq, which would make it very uneven.
Oh, well, it must be Mecca for Slashdotters!
This is unbelievably ridiculous from a country that is mostly anti-western values. Couldn't they at least promote chinese culture and folklore in someway than just stealing IP in this way? China used to be so creative, inventive, and amazingly modern before the communist era. Now they just acquire.
news for nerds -- stuff that matters ?
Is there a "Made In China" sticker under Minnie's skirt?
i'd love to go see the freaky chinese version of disneyland. my bet is it's chockers with nationalist pride stuff. yes, the chinese are even more nuts then american's.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
In Communist China,..State runs the toons :)
Eclipse PDE and Me
Go in to a big box store in the US and see where most products come from these days. A trade embargo against China by the US would hurt the Americans as much as, if not more than, the Chinese.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Is this really worth the hassle? Surely, the Chinese govt can employ some poeople who can come up with some more creative and appealing and a Mickey and Donald? Unless of course their aim is to stick their collective tongues out in Uncle Sam's face post WTO complaint.
What's really funny is that a country with a fake Disneyland in it is selling us half of our own DRM-infested media players that might refuse to play us our own DRM-encrypted Disney crap. Meanwhile a billion people are hiding behind their own firewall and manufacturing DVD players and you know they've got the decrypted versions of all Disney's stuff in there. The purpose of DRM is to prevent anyone from popping a hole in a huge, thin bubble of lame encryption to be applied everywhere, in the fear that unprotected bits might leak through and fall under anyone else's control anywhere which would render the whole exercise rather pointless. If the bubble is popped in China then only the Great Firewall stands in the way. Maybe they need to implement stronger DRM encryption at various redundant points along every one of the undersea cables, and lobby the government to mandate an intellectual property protection standard for all radio transmitters launched into space. Is Disney going to prevent the country with the fake Disneyland from manufacturing the players that implement their bubble of DRM by hiding secret encryption keys from us and occasionally refusing to decrypt/play things for us? Disney might need to reconsider who deserves its trust.
Actually, as far as I'm concerned, you're both a bit right. Invention should be stimulated and such, with possible funds from the commercial world, as well as by the general people (government... at least in a (semi)perfect world). But the current intellectual property rights are a bit much as well ... I mean after 5 - 10 years (depending on the gravity of the invention) it should become public domain. Not after 150 years.
It's simple, especially in the entertainment business... if you are still only gaining money from something you thought off, 5-10 years ago, either think of something new or you lose the right to gain that much money from it. Please note: they can still money from it, but then, they wouldn't be the only one.
I even think it's vital for scientific progress that any invention (especially non-cultural) is a free-for-all after a reasonable time, because else only a few can expend on the invention, instead of everyone.
"This should be fun, and by fun, I mean a wholly depressing insight into the cognitive ability of some grown adults."
Actually, we're technically there... Look at the income/profit difference between Micronesia and Coca-Cola. While an extreme example, it helps illustrate that we appear to be at the point where the largest companies ARE making more money than many of the world's smallest countries.
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
The Shijinshan Amusement Park was built more than 20 years ago. Not sure if the PRC has established diplomatic ties with USA yet, yet alone intellectual property treaties. Also, twenty years ago there was practically not such thing as "intellectual property" in China (ah, the good old days). There was a very famous brand of candy from Shanghai named "Mickymouse", with Disney's Mickymouse as its logo. Later, when China opened its market to the West, Disney realized that in China, the "Mickymouse" trademark was legally owned by the candy factory, so it paid big money and brought it back. It was reported in the newspaper that many Chinese children cried that day as their beloved "Mickymouse" candy was no more (oh, the evil Americans)...
Consequences as in trade embargos...
Uhm, let's think for a minute. Who would be in a worse position if you would close down China ? I mean, who does more exporting ? Like food, clothing, electronics, cars ? Just check some of your stuff, where are they made ? Then, let's think about China's internal economy. How many companies are there that only create and sell stuff inside China, and perform quite well ? How many of them would mind if they couldn't export ? Then, let's think of natural resources. And so on. China is a big country, with many people, and many resources, and a not so bad economy (let's put politics aside for now). And, additionaly, the US would suffer probably the most if embargos would be put in place, which they probably won't let happen. Which leads to
or even war.
War with China ? Now come on, let's be serious. Does anyone think a war with China is something _any_ country would realistically consider ? It would probably come very close to the top the list of foolest things in history.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
You cannot hoodwink them. They have seen a better margin and a better chance of exploitation. The only thing that can stop a publically listed business from following the scent trail of higher profit in the name of an abstract concept is nuking the stock market. After all it is what drives this in the first place.
The reasons for Chinese imports being cheap are twofold - complete lack of environmental control and use of slave labour. Both can be dealt with by putting the relevant legal frameworks in place.
The framework for the environmental is very similar to the one established for food imports. All it requires is application to all goods. No exemptions. Licensing of importers and mandatory certification. Same as for food.
The labour is actually a comparatively minor addition compared to the rest as far as modern manufacturing is concerned. Badly payed and badly treated labour delivers bad quality product (if that was not the case we would have still be owning slaves like the ancient egyptians).
Once the primary cost factor which is the environment is put on equal footing you can compete with Chinese on quality, efficiency and innovation. Just look at the Wiki page of the same Cheery motors. They do not have any of their own R&D. If it was not for European R&D (and to lesser extent american R&D) they would be dead straight away. Add to that mandatory environmental control to which European (and American) businesses are subjected on a day to day basis and they will fade into their internal market for the next century.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Here's the official English web page for the park:a sp
http://www.bs-amusement-park.com/ChinaIn/about-e.
To be honest, it wouldn't have been to hard to "discover" the park. It's connected to the Beijing subway, it's been open since 1986, and it's rated as a AAAA tourist attraction.
"What they do is give puny donations to universities, who then spend millions of tax-payer dollars in R&D, and right at the end, your corporation will come back, patent the idea"
;)
Are you saying that Disney World was invented by a bunch of PhD students, and then Walt Disney stole it
I think it is time that the copyrights from 1920 or so expire for the enjoyment of all.
Yeah, not bloody likely. Disney is the reason no copyright will ever expire again. Since they have "property" that would expire once the latest copyright extension they purchased rolls around, they have no choice but to purchase another one.
And why should these things expire? Since it's your "intellectual property", shouldn't it be yours forever? And when "you" are a company, "forever" can actually mean forever.
sic transit gloria mundi
"Your contributions to the culture of humanity will be mercilessly dissected, reshuffled, caricatured, parodied, paraded, criticized, subclassed and recycled."
This is not progress. This is a step for a bunch of profiteering assholes. According to your reasoning, if a starving art student created a webcomic with a lovable character, it would be A-OK for Disney to come in, steal the character, rename him, put him in a bunch of movies that make 100 million dollars, and then give absolutely no credit or money to the creator.
I don't know many people who would call this progress.
... supposed to be News for Nerds?
How we know is more important than what we know.
When I was living in Taiwan, which isn't China but it's close enough, I encountered this sort of thing constantly. It permeates Chinese culture in ways few can imagine. Hell, I think it's just a fact of life all throughout Asia, it's almost the same in Korea, and common Japan, although it's a little more subtle there. It really is just a way of life.
Some shop opens up somewhere selling a particular kind of desert and becomes successful. Within 6 months there are maybe a dozen to be found within that city. Someone designs a particularly striking advertisement and it's only a matter of time because imitators appear. A news agency updates their look and almost over night everyone else does to.
You see it in small things too. My wife corresponds with an online community of Taiwanese living in the States. She has a blog, as many do. She has a fairly distinctive writing style which suits her personality. Inevitably someone came along and started copying her writing style. It got to a point where this particular girl started writing about the very same things my wife had written about previously.
China adds yet another dimension to this absurdity. Most people there are poor. We hear all this talk about the booming economy, the burgeoning middle class and all that. But the fact is that most Chinese are poor. And I mean living in poverty to a point that the so-called poor in the US haven't experienced. What does this mean? They can't afford all the shiny, impressive and absurdly expensive products made by foreign companies. So what have some enterprising Chinese done? They've made cheap, inexpensive knockoffs. Most are pure garbage, but they cost next to nothing and provide some level of the functionality found in the expensive foreign product. Some people may even be fooled into thinking they've purchased the real thing.
This sort of thing used to really frustrate me. Especially when it affect my work directly. At the time I'd think about how great it was that no one could get away with this sort of thing in the US.
But then I realized two things. First, it does happen in the US. Companies here just happen to be more careful about how they go about it. Look at Hollywood, and worse, look at the game industry. It's only logical that when people see something that has led to success they try to emulate it. The easiest way to enjoy some of that success is to resort to copying.
This leads me to the second thing I realized. I've come to think this is a good thing, within limits of course. There's a point at which a company or an individual has just gone too far and measures need to be taken.
Nevertheless, this sort of thing keeps innovators on their toes. It forces them to be competitive. Like I mentioned earlier, copying is a way of life in Asia. It means that people aren't sitting trying to figure out how to go about suing the offending party. They aren't whining to the government that someone has just ripped them off. Instead, their moving on to something else. In some cases, as it was with us, the frame of mind is one of trying to raise the bar further, to stand out from the imitators.
The other advantage here is that the imitators are slowly improving their own skill sets. They're being exposed to new ideas and learning from them, even if they don't realize it at the time. But it's something, over a long period of time that I believe leads to real progress.
The reality is that in most cases the imitations will never be anywhere near as good as the originals. So the ones actually producing something unique will always have the advantage. So as long as they don't get lazy they should be fine. If their in a situation where they're being seriously threatened by those copying it's almost certain they're doing something wrong.
I'm not suggesting a free-for-all where people can copy with impunity. Patents and copyrights are reasonable to a certain extent. I just feel that in some cases things have gotten out of hand. A real free market shouldn't have the absurd level of protectionism some companies seem to expect.
Disney Messenger: Yuan and IP laws. ....
King Hu Jintao: [Laugh] You rode all the way from California for yuan and IP law?
King Hu Jintao: You bring the crowns and heads of former kings to my country! You mock my queen! You threaten my people with slavery and death!
Disney Messenger: This is blasphemy! This is madness!
King Hu Jintao: Madness? THIS IS CHINA!
*kicks Eisner into pit*
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
That's not exactly the same situation. The US is not at war with Iraq, at least not in the same sense the OP was talking about. If we were, then the military could just ride full bore over everything and finish up quickly. The goals dictate the strategy, and the goal in Iraq right now has nothing to do with winning a war.
That's not to say going to war with China would be a smart move. It's more akin to a classic blunder, as I understand it.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
all your mice are belong to us
GM?! Do you have a torrent for a Chevy Van? Have a new broadband connection that I was told could handle just about everything.
...Mickey Mouse Windows comes out of there? If techies keep saying Windows is a Mickey Mouse OS enough it will come true it seems.
Table-ized A.I.
Top Ten Changes At China's "Disneyland":
10: Every conceivable surface is painted red.
9: Skeletons, vampires, and other scary images replaced with pictures of famous American capitalists.
8: The "Mickey Mouseketeer Club" replaced with "Children Of The Chinese Communist Party"
7: Replaced the cars in "Autopia" with T-72 tanks
6: "Rocketship" ride has been replaced with "Nuclear Missile" ride.
5: Replaced the pirates in "Pirates Of The Caribbean" with American Capitalists.
4: Replaced mechanical puppets in "It's A Small World" with brainwashed dissidents singing at bayonet point.
3: Inserted subliminal propaganda messages into the "Tiki Hut" song.
2: Renamed Disnyland restaurant "Mickey Mao's"
1: Doubled the MSG content of the corndogs.
----
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
The military in Iraq did just go in full bore and finish up quickly, the problem in Iraq is what do you do then and were you to somehow conquer China you'd have the exact same problem.
You could execute anyone who spoke out against you, kill off a certain percentage of any village who you suspected of harbouring terrorists as punishment and lock up anyone with links to terrorists in large camps and finish the end game much more quickly but I don't think that kind of behaviour would go down well with most Americans or any international observers.
What the hell is futuristic about this? We have been there for a long time!!
Who the hell do you think conquered India? The British? Well, yes, I grant you they were British, but they sure as hell weren't the British Government. It was the British East India Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Plassey), who were big enough at the time to make Ford, Coca Cola and Microsoft look like a crocked hat.
Note in the battle mentioned above, John Company fought against the Indian Princes and the French East India Company.
The equivalent today would be Halliburton fighting in Iraq against the Iraquis and Shell.
Modding this up would introduce Americans to a bit of history!!
I think this is a menu advertisement.
Speciality: Sweet Sour Chinese Duck
Have a look at this page. They have Shrek as well. I think he is fairly recent. http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=1678
You've seen how ugly things can get when OIL interests are threatened... now somebody has screwed with The Mouse! This could make Iraq look like a game of freeze tag!
My theory is that with China's pollution levels, the population would be poisoned to death. There wouldn't be anyone left alive to stop an invader. Their pollution is that serious over there.
p olluted-nation/23217-2.html
As for who's the most polluted nation in the world? Well..........
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/china-is-worlds-most-
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
No, we have no internet connection in the park. What do you want with IP?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A "minor" quibble. The world today does make use of slave labor, extensively. Ever heard of "sweatshops"?
Read and educate yourself.
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
I believe Oxford owns the copyright to the King James Version. America pretty much ignored that and it is in the public domain in this country. That would probably be the biggest IP disrespect in the history of mankind.
I think IP respect between countries is necessary for economic ties between countries and for the greater good, but a country doesn't have to abide by another country's laws if they don't want to. However, agreeing to being in the WTO may change responsibilities.
The WTO did not exist in the 1700's when we chucked the copyright of the KJV.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
True in principle, of course. As a sovereign nation, the US is perfectly free to start trade wars with whomever it wants.
But a good rule of thumb for statesmen, is to show restraint in starting wars that you cannot possibly win.
In trade wars, size is all that matters. If a big county and a small one start imposing trade sanctions on each other, both countries are hurt, but the smaller one is hurt more. If there is a big enough difference in size between the two sides, the strategy can actually work. US trade sanctions on Cuba hurt Cuba a lot, but have no significant impact on the US economy. Therefore, the US has been able to keep up the sanctions for about half a century. (But it should of course be noted that this strategy has failed to achieve the primary goal of unseating Castro, even after all that time.)
But in the case of the US vs. Cuba, the US economy is about 300 times as large as the Cuban one in terms of GDP.
With China, it's an entirely different ball game. The relevant figures from the CIA Factbook are:
That's a considerable advantage for China in terms of population, and almost parity when it comes to economic strength. Add to this the fact that China's percentage of the world's total GDP is rising, whereas the US percentage is declining, and we can skip directly to the bottom line:
There is no way the US can win a sustained trade war against China.
And it's not just China, of course. There is a long list of countries that the US is trying convince to change its copyright laws to better suit US corporate interests. In fact, as the BBC article US copyright lobby out-of-touch points out, the majority of the world's population lives in countries that are being implicitly threatened with trade sanctions by the US over intellectual property issues.
To those of us living outside the US, these threats are just silly. The US economy accounts for 20% of the world's GDP (ppp adjusted), the rest of the world has 80%. Who do you think will win the trade war "the US vs. the rest", if push comes to shove?
When a British newspaper ran the famous headline "Fog over the channel, continent isolated", the empire was already on the decline, even if nobody had noticed it yet. The US threatening the rest of the world with trade sanctions to uphold its views on intellectual property, smacks of just the same attitude helped hasten the demise of what once was the greatest empire on earth.
Christian Engström, Former Member of the European Parliament 2009-2014 for The Pirate Party, Sweden
...situations like that prove that the western culture dominates the planet, and pretty soon it will take over (if not already) all of the eastern countries.
If a country with 5,000 years of recorded history can not offer a decent amusement park for its citizens, then we have won.
"While an extreme example, it helps illustrate that we appear to be at the point where the largest companies ARE making more money than many of the world's smallest countries."
This has been the case for hundreds of years though, e.g. the British East India Company, whose income sometimes dwarfed that of many developed (by the standards of the day) nations. Note also that using military power (or the threat of it) to enforce the trading rights of rich business lobbies is something that goes back at least as far as the Phoenicians, and the Romans and British Empire did on a regular basis, so it's not something that was suddenly invented by corporations in the 20th century. This is why most (possibly all) wars throughout history have, when one cuts through the usually religious or nationalistic rhetoric that leaders use to justify them, actually been a case of one bunch of wealthy, powerful people sacrificing large numbers of the expendable non-wealthy to amass even more riches and influence for themselves.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
our minds and the minds of our children that they have gone beyond what any one company or small group of people has any sort of right to own.
Also, the creators of those characters are all either rich or dead, so what does this park cost them?
The reason for their extemely low prices is simple supply and demand. Labor is dead-cheap because there is so much of it. I got a beautiful painting about an hour outside of Guangzhou for about a buck twenty five. The painting is a very large, rougly seven-feet wide one. For the record, the painter was not a slave. It's just that that's the price he can charge, since there were literally thousands of others I could have gone to.
Now, I'm not saying that there isn't any slave labor in China. I have no idea; there probably are some instances of it, just like there probably are instances of it here in the US. But it is simply not what drives their economy. It's not even remotely related to their success as an economy.
Pollution is another matter. I've never been to a traditionally smoggy city in the US (say, Houston or LA) but Guangzhou had a blanket of smog a couple hundred feet above the surface at all times... I can actually remember the air being "heavy." It was a releif to get out to countryside, so we could see the sun again.
groupthink: It's good for self-esteem.
Disney has enforced his wishes. To me that sounds as they alrady are more powerfull then countries.
The fact that it doesn't happen like SF stories tell, doesn't nmake much difference.
SF writers think about power and think tanks and guns. Companies think money and profit.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
All issues are binary. There is just more than one issue involved here. Both sides can be wrong here only because there is more than one issue at stake, and both are on the wrong side of at least one of them.
Thus, one should perhaps think less about supporting one of the sides in this story and more about picking from it one or more issues that you feel strongly about.
No.
But I have been to plenty of places with similar labour costs. In fact, I have lived in one for a while.
While what you are telling is correct for a painting, textiles and other "light industry", labour is only a minor part of the BOM for an heavy industrial product like a car, bicycle or modern toys. Environmental control on the other side is. It may account for 40%+ of the costs of plastics, 30%+ of the costs of metals (those pesky sulfur emissions controls, water quality control, cleanup of land destroyed by open mining, etc), 70%+ for some paints and coatings, 100%+ for some electronic components and so on.
Let's apply that to a pedal cycle - you have around 1 hour labour costs during initial assembly (everything including tires and all components), rest is BOM. The BOM difference between Chinese plastics, metal, tires, etc and _fully_ western Europe makes due to environmental regulations and mandatory acceptance for recycling for a bicycle can be close to 100 pounds (200$) at the moment. Compared to that the labour cost difference is negligible. If we look at any other product that makes heavy use of metal or plastics we get roughly the same proportions.
Further to this, if we look back at "light industry" like clothing the difference in quality between sweatshop labour and labour working in better conditions is also quite apparent. Compare a shirt made in China with one done in Bangladesh, Cambodja or Turkey. The quality difference is striking and these can nowdays often compete on quality alone (if the market is not perverted by "branding").
If China is left to compete on price of labour alone with the BOM costs equalized by mandatory environmental controls it will lose straight away to everyone else on quality alone.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
It may be outrageous, but it's not much to do with copyright. You can't "copyright" a theme park, a character, costume, a voice, etc. You can copyright a work of art, like a book, a movie or a song. However, Disney surely has registered trademarks in China, which do cover all their characters. (Thus the ubiquitous (R) symbols on Disney products.) And trademarks last forever, if the owner keeps them in use.
Of course, every movie Disney has made is available in China on DVD for about 50 cents each, which certainly is copyright infringement, but that's another issue.
I wonder if the owners of that park would complain if you paid your entry fee with counterfeit Chinese money?
Even without IP laws, wouldn't that be fraud? Claiming that they made a movie or character they didn't, then getting money for it, would be obtaining property by deception, which is basically the definition of fraud.
Maybe in Capitalist China copyright on Mickey Mouse _did_ expire?
"** That's why they haven't even invaded little baby Taiwan. **"
While the US has being putting up with crap from little baby North Korea for years because they're scared shitless of a confrontation with China. But don't let reality get in the way of a pissing contest...
"Oh and for those stupid enough to argue with me:"
"links"
All of which counts for nothing if the country with those resources is run by, and populated by, cowards who only use it to pick on tiny opponents because actually losing people in wars is something that US voters stopped tolerating in the 1960s. Here is a list of some countries the mighty US military machine has been used against since the end of WWII:
North Korea
Viet Nam
Libya
Granada
Panama
Iraq
Bosnia
Somalia
Afghanistan
Iraq (again)
Some of those countries have nearly 1/20th the US's population, and one or two even had small airforces, navies, and 1950s era SCUD missiles! China would obviously be a mere bagatelle compared with the near unlimited military might of opponents like these.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
First, sorry for my poor english. I'm a chinese.
I've heard of this news across the internet(japanprobe.com, engadget.com, of course slashdot.org) these days. Thank you japanese so much "unveiling" the big secret. You really are working hard. We know our problems. We are developing. We've been paying more and more and more attention to IP issues.
Franly speaking, no country can promise there is no piracy. the point is, the attitude we treat piracy. you can see that in china. so far, there have benn many patents all over the world. we are hard to develop us without any piracy but we are trying our best do this. during this period, we need understand. as you know, there are 0.9 billion farmers and thousands millions people who are not well educated. Could you understand us and give us some time?
And, japanese guys, why do you guys post this news across the internet all over? what are you thinking about? This really is a damn thing.
I don't get why anyone is surprised. This is just modern Soviet-style Communism. At the same time that it decries the EVIL west and it's kapitalistic society they want it's economic power and happiness so much that they emulate the very things that some of us would define as our worst kapitalistic sins. Is there a more "evil" company than Disney?
Of course, like all communist governments, they get it wrong.
As an aside, I enjoy Asian cinema, Korean films the most. I've given a few HK films a shot and something that has been often impressed in my mind is that the Chinese people in these films are portrayed as the most materialistic culture I've ever seen in my life. I'm apt to take this with a grain of salt, as our own Hollywood does a woefully inadequate job of actually portraying everyday life in America. But, these films are made for some audience right? How on earth could a Communist society like China be at all concerned about material wealth? Do they not have all they need?
At least we know why all those Chinese "tourists" were taking so many pictures.
There's an official Disneyland located in Hong Kong so it's not that far.
Maybe three hours by plane from Beijing. The park is probably modeled
after the HK one.
The British East India Company had it's own army
I wonder why they did this at all since China already had an Official Disney Theme park. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-09/1 2/content_477116.htm
Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, and the Seven Dwarfs are Disney characters from the 1930's. The only reason they remain protected in the US, is that Congress is intent on making intellectual property eternal. That was not the intent of our founders. Every time Disney feels that the IP created by their long deceased founder is threatened, Congress extends copyright. I'm definitely NOT a fan of the Chinese government, but I'm not real sympathetic to Disney in this matter.
[Insert pithy quote here]
You had me up to the 'except' part. Since when does MS worry about legal issues?
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
If Disney wants to push the matter, all they have to do is stop having their crappy merchandise made in China.
That wouldn't stop China from continuing to make the same items, but then they would be responsible for trying to sell the same amount of stuff that Disney does.
Since Disney controls their own stores and theme parks, China wouldn't be able to open stores and such selling their products as Disney could then claim trademark infringement and other goodies to prevent the selling of these knockoffs.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
It did indeed, but the "official" British armed forces were also frequently used to further its interests, e.g. when the British fleet was used against China to protect the British East India Company's opium trade.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
OK. But if you remove the incentive for corporations, you also remove the incentive for individuals to create meaningful contributions to human culture.
When Disney started, it was a very small outfit with just a couple guys doing cartoons. It was hardly a big corporation.
And I see other sides to it - while the original Mickey Mouse flicks should be in public domain, its more modern depictions - and there lies that immediate image recognition and its commercial value - would not fall in the same category.
Another side is that by creating this cheap knock-off, they dilute the value of the originals, associating it with an ugly falsification. If you want to make a Disney theme park, know in advance the quality standards for decoration, fantasies, character behavior and even gardening are insanely - almost prohibitively - high.
And kids would have just as much fun without the knock-offs.
What is really sad is that whoever created the park seemed necessary to use Disney characters.
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
It's the Beijing Shijingshan Amusement Park
t ml
. html
Here's the official website
http://www.bs-amusement-park.com/
Epcot dome
http://www.bs-amusement-park.com/ChinaIn/huanle.h
Castle
http://www.bs-amusement-park.com/ChinaIn/huanle-b
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
Sure, if your country has a strong enough dictatorship they can make everyone ride a bicycle because the country doesn't produce enough cars for everybody. But if your country doesn't have a strong enough government to enforce a cultural revolution and a significant part of the manufacturing infrastructure has moved overseas, then you'd better accept some setbacks in negotiations with other countries.
Until you resurrect your rust belt, it's your IP for their industrial goods.
I'm quite convinced, if IP would be stocked in China, they'd be as apeshit about it as the US is now. They're not against IP, they're against someone else owning IP they want to use.
Why do you think they'd be different?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
How about a nearer analogy, we would have still be owning slaves like the early non-native Americans.
Ownership of slaves was far more widespread in the U.S. than in Egypt. Egyptian slaves had far more rights than American slaves, they could even own property. Slavery was rare in Egypt until the Greek period (due to invasion), which may indicate a decline in morality related to Western (forced) influence.
Ya (error: comma needed) I can see all of the 'Hilljacks'(Hillbilly Jackass) now "Them chiyenees has gots a fake disneey land... Mama faynted, git me my shotgun!"
I dont (error: don't) care what the reasoning is (error: comma needed) it will be BS. The fact is (error: that) this doesnt (error: doesn't) effect (error: the word is "affect") their US business because I dont (error: don't) see americans (error: capitalization needed) flying to china (error: capitalization needed) to go to some disneyland (error: capitalization needed) clone. If the public here gets pissed because some chinese (error: capitalization needed) kids get to go to DL (error: comma needed) then we all deserve the swriling (error: spelling) toilet bowl this country has become.
To the parent. (error: delete period, add colon) Do you hate China? Would you rather we kept all of OUR money in OUR country? How bout you think of the cost of not doing business with them (error: comma needed) huh? Yeah (error: comma needed) youd (error: you'd) be happy about that for one hour until you couldnt (error: couldn't) go out and by (error: the word is "buy") your everyday conviences anymore. You sir are a Racist.
It's interseting that while you poke fun at the syntax and pronunciation of Appalchian and/or Southern people, you cannot seem to produce a decent sentence yourself. You Sir, are illiterate.
Here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Taitei
Yes, it can bully smaller countries into compliance. But how do you want to bully a country pretty much all the other countries depend on? How do you want to bully someone who is pretty much your manufacturing power? What would happen if China said "up yours"?
The WTO would stand there and look quite lost. What do you want to do? Punitive taxes? The only ones that would be hurt by this would be US and EU based corporations who have their manufacturing in China. Force other countries to cease their trade relationships with China? Ditto.
You can't bully someone who you depend on.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Ummm ...
.. and universities spending 'tax payer dollars' .. Do you even KNOW what the semester cost is to go to MIT ? [arguably the school with the best tech transfer program out there.] I'm fairly sure they are not spending 'tax-payer money' in their research programs.
.. I guess basically taking animation and turning it from an idea .. into an art form doesn't count ?
.. has sacrificed.] animation of any quality was unknown in the American theater.
.. most of the original Warner Bros. artists WORKED for Disney at some point.
Black & Decker ?
IBM ?
Microsoft ?
Corporations are the most LIKELY to invest in long term because they have the funds and assets to handle the risk/reward.
As for tech transfer
What did Disney do that was special ?
hmm
Before all of Walt's [and his original animators] hard work, and sacrifice [and anyone who starts from 2 people in a single room
Without Disney, there would be no Warner Brothers Cartoons, maybe not even any Anime. Hell
Whats also funny, is that one of the reasons Disney was so gung-ho on protecting their assets, is that Walt's original animation character 'Oswald the Rabbit' Was stolen by the same Warner brother's artists that stopped working for him.
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
To illustrate a war against China.
The US and China go at war. First day, the US make a million POWs. Second day, two million more. Third day, five million more. Fourth day a call from the chairman. "Well, Mr. President, do you give up?"
You are aware that China has maybe the biggest military machinery on the planet? Not to mention simply by far more human material than anyone else? And since they don't have to worry about the next election, a million dead or alive ain't an issue. There's plenty more.
How the hell do you want to win a conventional war against such a nation?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
And don't forget that this was not an isolated example.
Both the Dutch and British East India Companies issued their own coins - about as much of an indication of sovereignty as there is.
The Hudson Bay Company used to be a slightly larger land owner than it is now - basically half of North America, including big chunks of what is now the US.
The history of these companies is fascinating, check it out some time.
Zapsavings: Simply calculate how much energy efficient bulb
I don't get it. Why are Japanese TV and bloggers so interested in the Disneyland in Hong Kong? There's already a Tokyo Disneyland that has been around for many years.
Further to this, if we look back at "light industry" like clothing the difference in quality between sweatshop labour and labour working in better conditions is also quite apparent. Compare a shirt made in China with one done in Bangladesh, Cambodja or Turkey.
Your point here was lost on me... Which of these choices is supposed to be the "better conditions" ?
And which has better quality?
The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
China doesn't have to fend off nukes. What for? 'cause people could die. So what? There's plenty left. Your bomb costs more than the people it kills. Not to mention the public outcry, that you, the US, have to care about. China doesn't give a rat's ass. Neither internal nor internationally. Simply 'cause every country is already dependent on them for their work force.
China needs no Navy. What do you want to sink? The container ships, owned by western nations that transport goods built there to keep your living standard nice and cheap?
Do you think there's one prez with the balls to completely fuck up the US economy? He and his party wouldn't see the light again for decades. And that's what an attack on China would entail. China would no longer build your cheap knickknacks, but they would prolly for Japan and the EU. And that would certainly mean more than just another dent in the already shaky US foreign trade balance.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The US ows CA over $1B for the softwoods tarrifs - that's been settled for over 5 years now.
Antigua has won round 1 & 2 against the US for Online gambling.
The US is pursuing WTO sanctions against China.
Business as usual, if it's in our favor use it; if not, ignore it. I would love for the WTO to take the new complaints the US filed & hand them back saying "You can't start any new actions until you resolve the actions against you."
As for Copyright, it's a civil contract between society & authors - every country has the right to write that contract as best suits them & their needs. The problem is that the contracts are no longer writen to balance the needs of the society against the authors, it's viewed solely as an entitlement. I say go back to requiring registration & then requiring an increasing fee to maintain the registration at 10 year intervals. Hey, if a patent costs $5-10K over the course of it's 20 year life, why shouldn't a copyright cost $30-60K to cover it's 120 year lifespan?
While corporations certainly do exist and are located in multiple countries, your implications that they are above and beyond the legal or ethical reach of each local country assumes facts not presented as a base to your argument.
The parent post disregards the very nature and essence of what a corporation IS. A "corporation" is a FICTION defined by a government relieving individual employees and owners of liability and prosecution from most (but not all) of the potentially bad things the company can do. [I know "fiction" seems like a terrible choice of words. But it is actually the legal term used in law books and law journals. Look it up yourself.]
If the president of General Electric could be held personally responsible and jailed when one worker in one plant out of many across the world went on a killing rampage, or when a consumer was accidentally killed by a GE delivery truck, then there would be precious few organizations larger than the family business.
The creation of the corporate fiction has enabled the creation, operation, and growth of all of the large corporations in the world.
Whatever your political view, the corporation (and the peoples within the corporations) have raised the standard of living of billions of people. After more than 100,000 years of history, we may for the first time be within 100 years of a time when no one in the world is malnourished.
Back to the parent post topic, a corporation can only operate within a country subject to the laws in that country. That is why the executives at Google were so upset at the choice between "doing no evil" (by protecting dissident human rights and withdrawing from doing business in China) and the "evil" choice of obeying the local laws (and also protecting advertising revenues from that country and rationalizing that a "greater good" would be served by giving Google's services to the people not in Chinese labor camps).
In the case of American and China, current tensions over intellectual property are a natural byproduct of continuing negotiations between the countries (bilateral trade agreements and treaties) and the evolving international standards being slowly embraced by all major trading partners (through the WTO also known as the World Trade Organization).
Between the United State's dependence on imports to keep inflation down, and China's dependence on exports and growth to prevent unrest and revolution, neither country can bully the other into doing anything they really don't want to do. In addition, any moves that are made are rarely made quickly. Only when China develops more intellectual property based businesses like America's Hollywood or India's Bollywood will they see the value of protecting intellectual rights. Until then, we get a lot of Slashdot articles on the topic.
Considering the amazing progress China has made since the 1970's, it is entirely possible that their next generation of leaders may improve the protections of human rights, property rights, and intellectual rights. We can only hope.
Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
http://www.bs-amusement-park.com/
$nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
In a battle between Disney and China, who do you root for? Crap, this is like Hitler vs. Stalin. Can I root against both of them?
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Or, at times The Party District Commissar Goofs YOU ! or whatnot.
Read radical news here
You have got to be kidding me...are you that xenophobic?
UN Report says over 34,000 Iraqis killed in 2006
34,000 people per year / 12 months per year = 2834 1/3 people per month
As of October '03, the calculated death toll for 9/11 was 2,752
For the record, the average loss of Iraqi life per month in 2006 exceeds how many people died during 9/11. And that's just 2006.
Makes you wonder who really has the right to worry about terrorism...
:(){
It seems to me that lots of people confuse the trade deficit with the national debt.
The trade deficit doesn't have anything to do with the government other than that the government can prevent it by imposing tariffs and restrictions. It simply means that more goods come in than go out. This is a concern to economicists because it means that other countries are getting richer at the indicated country's expense. This is offset somewhat by the fact that the US dollar is hoarded by many people outside the US as a "reserve currency," but if others decide they have enough dollars or the dollar falls out of favor then this compounds the issue.
The national debt is simply treasury bonds and the like. They don't give their bearer any direct power over the government in question. You can't collect them early or put pressure on the government that issues them other than by declaring that you will be refusing to buy them. Government bonds are always paid becsaue the govenment prints the money. This does influence inflation, of course, and has a host of other consequences, but they aren't the same ones as when an individual consistently engages in deficit spending.
I am not sure that I see all that much difference between China and America at this time (and I am an American). The truth is that normally, we are none-interference WRT other countries. But every so often, we get republicans like Reagan and W. who insists on playing with other countries to help our businesses out. During those times, we are like China will be (at the current moment, they are not). But the difference is that we are self correcting in relatively short times (within 8 years). China can take 1-2 generations to correct their actions.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
China is not bound by US copyright laws, however it is probably bound by international treaties - so let's be specific: in this case it is Berne Convention that says: "50 years after author's death". Or 50 years after going public in case of anonymous or pseudoanonymous works. It is not clear to me what happens if the IP owner is a corporation. How does it die? (or is there some other article describing such case?) Anyway the important point is that the time period given in the treaty might not be the same as the one in US laws.
Micky Mouse is an American icon. Maybe less today, but when I was a kid (yes, speak louder young grasshopper so gramps can hear you!), the Mouse was more US than applepie (which is based here, you stole that from my grandma!). The Mouse was what symbolized the US for us kids. Hell, I had a Micky piggybank and I was damn proud of it!
Disney and all around it is what is good and holy in the US. It's the "nice America". The fuzzy, warm, clean and shiny US spirit, all that's good and nice about the US. Yes, it is a very crummy corporation, yes, Walt himself was a slaver. But that's not what you see when you're a kid. You see the good, the nice, the funny figures and you dream about that wonderland of joy and goodness those figures live in.
The very holy grail of good ol' Uncle Sam. And we loved him and his Mouse.
Micky was a hero! He came to us on TV and in comics, and he was fighting the good fight against all those crooks that tried to bully him around, he was the li'l guy who always came out as the winner, despite not being a big superhero, he was just so 'normal' and he had his troubles, and yet he always managed to live through it, have a good time and succeed.
I doubt it is much different in the US. So I guess this isn't about copyright and IP. It's about the Mouse.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The translation was authorized by King James around 1608 or so. I'm just going off of what I've heard.
IIRC, there's actually no evidence that King James ever did authorise it. He did give his blessing to an effort to make an "official" new translation of the Bible, simply to counteract the spread of Bibles being imported from Geneva by Calvinists who had a pesky habit of questioning his "Devine Right to Rule". However, if memory serves, when the new translation was finished some 12 or 14 years later and appointed to be "read in churches", old King Jameie had long lost interest. It was all a political exercise, seemingly.
Slave labor? Yes, most of the toys in the stores are made using those in China's prisons, and we know that China's prisons are full of people placed their for their beliefs more often than not.
What a convenience! Get rid of the detractors and those dangerous house-church Christians by putting them in prison. While they're there, we can use them to feed American (and other) corporations that want cheap goods. Those poor saps in the U.S. are actually paying us to keep political and ideological prisoners! We love the United States of America!
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
Or several trade issues with Canada. The US tends to be a bit more pushy when it's them lodging the complaint though.
Cambodja has working trade unions and working labour law. So does Turkey and so to a lesser extent does Bangladesh.
While, their working hours and norms may sound excessive by Western Europe or US standards they are considerably lower than the rest of East Asia and especially China.
As a result their textile products cost 10-20% more on average, but the difference in quality is staggering. When "field tested" on my unruly junior pair of Chinese shorts falls apart at the seams or is ripped to shreds on a bramble in 3 months or less. Shoes - 2 months or less. Jackets - one season or less. And so on.
Compared to that the production of any of these countries (as well as the production of Eastern Europe which also has silly labour costs) lasts several times longer - roughly to the point where he outgrows them.
So no surprise that we ended up operating a strict "no-Chinese" policy regarding any clothing and shoeware. It ends up being more expensive once depreciation is taken into effect. Same as with most other Chinese light industry products.
One of the reason why the Chinese light industry succeeds is the perversion of the free market by branding. They are the primary producer of counterfeit clothing and shoeware in the world. And the only reason it sells is because people like showing off with a label. And this is all silently covered up by the state as it is usually run by local state officials. Same as the Disneyland in the original story. If this is revoked as well as the unfair advantage of running the environment into the ground and they have to compete on quality alone they fail straight away.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
So now their visual images are the ones embedded in the public mind as the ONLY images. That doesn't mean that they belong in the public domain. Disney still owns the images!
If the park in question was using completely different images of the characters then no one would have raised an eyebrow. But using the images created by Disney means they're infringing as long as Disney holds a valid copyright.
Yes, Disney used folk tales for their storylines. Good hook, that. Good business decision. But not evil by any means and they're not claiming all rights to the folk tales now. They took familiar stores from the public domain and used them.
Ok, the more recent stuff is bad. Very bad. If it is proven that they stole from others copyrighted works then they should be penalized. But lumping that in with blatant infringement is just confusing the issue.
Bad China! No biscuit!
For the unauthorized "China" in Epcot. Did Disney license that from the Chinese, I think not!
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
This discovery is just the tip of the iceberg. I shouldn't be telling you this, but the Chinese have actually built a full-scale replica of the entire United States in a remote corner of Hunan Province. The model is complete down to the smallest detail - it even includes a replica of you, sitting and reading this article right now. But for some reason the replica of you is dressed in stiff nylon clothes cut in a vaguely 1950s style. In fact the whole place has the feel of a faded Polaroid photograph; the children's smiles are slightly too wide, the food looks slightly too waxy, and of course everyone speaks slightly out of sync...
A Fun fact is that Mickey and a lot of Disney characters are not Copyright, they are Trademarks, which is like copyright on crack.
Basically this means that the character's will be the legal property of Disney until the sun consumes the earth. Possibly even later.
They would respond. So? The US produces more than enough food to survive, and can quickly start producing steel and other items that we now buy from China. The US was self sufficient for 100 years, and should still be today. The only thing we can't really substitute is oil from the middle east at this time. Sure, there would have to be a lot of sacrifices, but it would be worth it to make a point. Our trade balance with China is out of control, right? So who gets hurt more if people stop trading? The buyers? Or the sellers?
- No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades really cramps his style.
China has the ability to take out carrier battle groups now. Sure, we could retaliate and missile their cities-they can do that right back. They have the 200MPH russian rocket torpedoes and those fast low flying anti ship missiles, let alone just gobs of normal surface to surface missiles, including a lot of road mobile nukes. Those anti ship cruise missiles-realtime testing last summer, took out that israeli warship when they thought they were still invincible. Iran has them too, BTW, something to consider if the neoCONs decide to do a little "commandering and deciding" there.
Nope, the US has now been dropped down to the point we can really only fight "insurgents" in little pipsqueak nations without taking massive losses. And even there, with total armor and air superiority-you can see what is happening. They can't really hold much and need to stay inside walled compounds or take losses from small arms and IEDs. And their mechanized stuff is just slap wearing out, half of it is total junk now.
We still have bluster and tremendous firepower, no one argues that, but we are no longer able to threaten medium or large nations with impunity, either directly or implied. Now that might change back once the f22s and 35s are out there in huge numbers, but right now, nope. And china has shown they have the ability to get a diesel electric attack sub right in the middle of a CBG and not get detected-they did it not long ago, and they also have shown direct kinetic anti satellite tech as well as offensive laser tech. Those were *demonstrations* to the US to not push their luck. A huge part of their military focus the last decade has been directly applied to dealing with carrier battle groups, you can go google around and read up on it.
And with that said, I'd bet they have thousands of agents that could be activated inside conus now for sabotage, everything from the grid infrastructure to the food supply to what have you.. The media makes a lot of noise about the islamics, but it's the chinese who have infiltrated with a lot of dual use citizenry.
The rulers in china know full well that if anything happens to stop their expanding middle class that they will be toast, that's why they are going all over the planet locking up natural resources, and why they have been dealing with the threat of carrier battle groups, because they actually realize the 21st century is the century of the resource wars, and they aim to win. While we are debating to raise CAFE standards, they have bought up 20 more coal mines. While we argue over some sports teams scores, they have been signing 20 year contracts with major energy supplying nations. While the west farts around arguing over how much already rich movie distributors should make, they basically are moving in and starting to just about run entire nations in africa where the raw materials are. They are pumping out hundreds of thousands of engineers and technicians and exporting them right along with manufactured goods, while we pump out rappers and football players and "managers", while their business guys are signing contracts and getting results and building influence all over the planet as ours keep failing at it, because we have zip to offer any longer besides gussified up IOU's and grossly over priced and insane "IP" products, which are beyond a joke now.
And the main thing is, they could give shift one about world opinion beyond some token amount, they are going to do what they will do and aren't the least bit concerned over the consequences, because they perceive no threat to them over some total destruction angle, because it doesn't exist, MAD suicide is not an option, even for the most deranged western leader, and there exists NO credible conventional deterrent any longer.
Before you start ranting about chinese stealing your most loved american icon and copyright issues, get informed!
The park is not in any way related to Disneyland. The link of the story goes to a 404, slashdotted probably. Hell, even the domain (http://www.japanprobe.com) goes to a 404!!
The official website of the theme park (http://www.bs-amusement-park.com/) doesn't mention Disney, Mickey or any other Disney-related product.
Characters on the pictures that I've found are the 7 dwarfs but not Mickey or any other. It also has a castle and an Epcot-like sphere but that's it.
And even if they are the 7 dwarfs, what's the big deal? You have to admit this is news because the chinese are doing it.
I'm currently in Buenos Aires and I see Spiderman, Mickey, the power rangers and the most known pokemons in mall entrances almost every weekend, but I'm sure nobody is suing them...
It's scary how many of you people, always proud of having above-average IQs, react to a story like this one. What is left for the rest of the americans then?
Don't get FUDed by media!! Wake up!
I'm not chinese BTW!
Instead of posting links that don't work, you should post ones that do.
The Rat should just take his merchandising manufacturing elsewhere.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
"Other countries don't necessarily have copyright protection for as long time."
Actually, if they are a member of the WTO, they do. They just may not realize it yet.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
the copyright maximalists have just gotten another arrow in their quiver.
What, like this park has actually hurt Disney? Next thing you know the DDR will sue Disney for ripping off the Brothers Grim.
The "IP" warriors are in for a revolt and the HD DVD is just the beginning. Their measures are oppressive and don't really help out artists and creators. The people who created those Disney characters were paid less than union wages and they are all dead now. Yet, the local bakery can't decorate a cake with any of them without being sued. That kind of thing builds resentment. Enough resentment that people will be happy to see someone else giving the finger to the greed heads.
What Disney is really afraid of is that their characters will get stale and people will go out and make their own. They are careful to release their movies on rotating schedules so that every generation gets them, but never all at once. The magic of Disney is that a 100 year old mouse still looks fresh. If that freshness were lost, people would realize there's nothing really special about any of the Disney characters. This park in China goes a long way towards showing everone just how slavish they have been.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
There was a bit in it about money: how a piece of paper and money were really just both pieces of paper, differing only by one of them being "blessed" by the treasury department.
Of course, I'm not doing it justice without the exact quotes.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Do you seriously think factories in Bangladesh and Cambodia have substanially better conditions than in China?! What, are the textile airconditioned or something?
Most interviews I read with insiders (on and off the record) said that no one consciously copied Kimba, but some of the animators quickly realised they were and began making jokes about it in the office. The better question is "Was there corporate mal intent?" I haven't ready any indication there was, and that the animators and writers may have consciously or unconsciously borrowed from Simba putting Disney in an awkward situation.
Straight Dope has the best answer to this (they talked to the animators no longer working for Disney):
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a991224.html
The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
I don't think it being done under the auspices of the British East India Company means it wasn't done by the British Government, as the company was to a large part an extension of the government, created for the explicit purpose of exploiting trade with the east. It was pretty much a state-controlled company, but not entirely so, and is probably more akin to the USPS than Halliburton, except it had as influence on the government more like Halliburton.
The enemies of Democracy are
The picture references "a replica of Cinderella's Castle".
Funny that, as Cinderella's Castle is a similarly loose replica of Neuschwanstein Castle in Germany.
Disney has some gall complaining of knock-offs, when most (all?) of their biggest hits are knock-offs.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Ok, I see lots of comments about the U.S. being dependent on China for products, that we owe them money, that they're buying bonds from us, etc. like that has *anything* to do with the issue here. Since when does this justify someone just blatantly stealing someone else's work or ideas. You can argue that Disney, the U.S., and anyone else has stolen ideas, work, and so on, but I have two comments to this.
1: Two wrongs don't make a right. (blah blah cry about it if you want.. it's true)
2: *HELLO* they didn't just make a Disney-like attraction with similar characters and ideas.. they just absolutely stole them. There's a big difference here.
Go ahead and welcome your new Chinese overlords. It seems like you losers envy them so much, why don't you move there and enjoy their wonderous nature. Oh yea..then come on Slashdot and tell us how it is.. or not.
Now with this site being state run, do you think the Chinese Govt. is running around up in arms because all of the US based hits are constituting as a US based DoS attack from the /. affect?
BTW - Nice to see that this park was awarded the "Advanced Unit in Implementing the Birth Control Policy" Chinese State Award.
WTG Not-so-Disneyworld!!
The only way you could make this stick was if you required all people who use your car to sign an agreement that they'd only ever install Such-and-Such Company licensed components in their car. I can tell you right now, the day I have to sign a EULA to purchase a car is the day I buy a bicycle.
Anyone who knows the sat views or map of Disneyland/Magic Kingdom/DisneyParis.. etc, can see from the Google Earth View where the inspiration is from. Shijingshan in Beijing, China http://www.bs-amusement-park.com/
Max: "You mind if I drive?" Sam: "Not if you don't mind me clawing at the dash and screeching like a cheerleader."
The Disney characters seem to be confined to a small section of the park. The park's iconic characters seem to be cats with big pointy ears.
The Beijing park has Vegas showgirls. They didn't copy that from Disney.
It's an older park, from one of China's less creative periods. Remember, it was built after the crackdown on creativity towards the end of the Mao era, when China lost a whole generation of young creative people. That's over. We're seeing quite good design out of China today. The next time that park gets a refresh, they may well dump the Disney stuff.
petulant child is never good, especially when it's an entire nation.
damaged by dogma
I started to feel like we were getting there once I saw that Microsoft had its own currency.
ARE BELONG TO US!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's not unheard of for a factory to radically change WHAT it makes. If you don't find customers for one product, you make something else. Factories have intrinsic value. Like shovels and hammers, and other tools, only magnified.
Now if you want to assert that there won't be any market for Barbie dolls, and what else can you make with the same equipment... There you've got me. You'd be able to make practically anything that only depended on plastic molds and coloring, and that's too wide a spectrum to guess. If you could add wiring and small electric motors (Do Barbies have that kind of thing this year?) you could do even more. Everything from doorbells (well, not the chimes, themselves) to miniature rockets. (Note that I did NOT say "model".)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Even Los Angeles is much better than it used to be. Average visibility in the LA/Orange County area seems much better now than it did in the early 1990s, and my dad has stories of horrendous smog conditions in the 1960s that I have only ever seen when the region is blanketed by smoke from nearby wildfires.
Right now China holds U.S. instruments in the amount of about $1 trillion. This is about 1/9th of the "public debt", which currently stands at about $9 trillion. But that is a NET number, not gross. Every day some number of bonds are being paid off, and some number of new bonds are being issued. The $9 trillion merely represents the long-term aggregate of the difference between those two numbers.
The total trading volume of U.S. public bonds, all types, is just under $1 trillion PER DAY. In other words the Chinese hold about one day's worth of trading volume. That is still significant, but it's not anywhere near the huge danger that people portray it as.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Yeah, I was trying to build an analogous situation to the story. What the Chinese are doing is exactly that. They are claiming that Minney Mouse is a cat they created, and profiting off it!
The GP called the siltation "good" and called it progress. I was calling him on it.
This isn't the sanctioned chinese Disneyland. They are two entirely different establisments.
"I'm going to The People's Juvenile Entertainment Complex And Animated Character Fun Collective!" just doesn't have a ring to it.
v.m
I have a "Zero Policy" tolerance.
*/
Save the Mouse! 'nuff said ..
Actually, if you believe some of the latest rumors, Disney might even be scoping out land in southwestern Missouri, near Joplin. I just read a big story in the St. Louis, MO morning newspaper about that. There's a fictitious company that's been floating around talks of buying up many acres of land for some type of "amusement park complex with shops and hotels", and the registered addresses on the "branches" of this fake company point to Disney corporate office addresses.
It's just that that's the price he can charge, since there were literally thousands of others I could have gone to.
That would be a neat definition to put in Webster's Dictionary defining 'not slave labour'
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
There are two different pricing models in China, one for the Chinese and one for the "tourist". Even their tourist prices are very low. I had a hard time comprehending this at first. I could not believe I could actually buy a fake Rolex for about $2 USD. I would like to say that yes, this was a fake watch, but it was (and still is) a very good watch. This is not one of those Times Square, cheapo ticking second hand piece of crap. Hell, I would have paid more if it didn't say Rolex on it. Never had a problem with it.
As far as pollution, goes, I have never seen worse. I got into Nanjing and it was raining. The guy who picked me up said it was a nice thing it was raining, so I could see the building, etc. I didn't understand that until the next afternoon, when the poluttion was back and you could only see 1 or 2 blocks.
I will admit that I reacted a bit stingy. I shouldn't have, it was uncalled for.
It's just that I get annoyed by the never-ending display of ignorance about the world outside the US by most Americans that I encounter. It is really weird, of all the Americans I've met they were either some of the sharpest minds I know, or they were as dumb as a sack of wet potatoes. No inbetweens. That's strange, no?
!ERR: Signature not found.
Disclaimer: My wife is a purchaser for a fashion conglomerate, and I have somewhat of an interest in the outsourcing of fashion manufacturing.
If you are implying that Chinese textiles are inferior to those of Bangladesh, Cambodia, or Turkey, then you are incorrect. These places that you mention, often along with the Philippines, India, and Vietnam are contracted for lower-end fashion. (Although Turkey does manufacture very high-quality leather goods). Higher-end fashion now mostly manufacturers in China or Hong Kong (for even higher-end fashion). The quality has improved so much that higher-end fashions have no problems moving their base of manufacturing to China. Sure - China still makes crappy $2 socks for Walmart, but it also makes that $800 cocktail gown at BCBG. The move upwards has a lot to do with Vietnam going into WTO and upping its textiles quotas for the U.S.
What you have said about Chinese textiles was true 5-7 years ago. Not anymore. They no longer don't exclusively make cheap stuff.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
Does anyone have map coordinates for the park?
In Capitalist America, Disney owns the State.
In Communist China, the State owns Disney!
Irony can be pretty ironic, yes?
Edith Keeler Must Die
Now, considering China supplies a lot to us and we do a lot in China, I don't think Disney is going to cause such an action, but China still has to be careful about what it's doing if it cares about relations with the US. Disney has other options as well, and although their movies don't show it, they could get pretty creative with ways to punish China. The point is, just because China is a country doesn't mean that Disney has no recourse.
no... neither would the U.S... That's why I included the parentietical (among other things) in the OP. China and the U.S. as well as China and 'several other countries' pretend to get along right now because it's financially advantageous for both parties. If that ever becomes in-doubt... look out!
The US completely ignored copyright from other countries up into the 60ties.
- history-t9724.html
I agree with that if by "the 60ties", you mean the 1860s.
the United States was a pirate nation that ignored copyrights for its first 100 years.
Source: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/000859
In the 1800's, when the americans were a developing nation, they had no qualms in pirating foreign intellectual properties and technologies. People like Charles Dickens (British) etc., complained that this practice was hurting them, but the US did not see it to their benefit to respect foreign claims and piracy thrived. When the U.S. had developed more and there was a local market for their own authors etc., they came up with copyright protection for their own citizens while still not extending the same protection to foreign works. Only, when there was a significant market in Europe etc. for American works, did the U.S. move towards international copyrights. In a nutshell, when they were developing, they ignored copyrights; and when the role was reversed, they sought to protect their works.
Source: http://wccftech.com/forum/america-and-piracy-some
In any case, more and more of the world's economies are moving towards intellectual property, rather than tangible property. That makes comparisons to past history a little difficult. Take a piece of software, for example. Software can involve the involvement of millions of man-hours. It results in no physical product at all. In contrast, historically, the products of labor have been a mixture of intellectual property and physical property. Cars are designed, but they also have to be built. Books lean a little more towards intellectual property, but you still have to physically create them. Contrast that with something like software. Even drugs (while being a physical product) spend much more on development than actual production. As the developed world moves to heavy intellectual property development, countries like China are not only stealing the intellectual property, but doing it at a time when developed countries' economies are built much more heavily on intellectual property and while China maintains large trade surpluses over those same developed countries because they produce physical products (rather than intellectual property).
Also, while intellectual property is a big deal to me (as a software developer, who produces absolutely NOTHING except for intellectual property), I think it's also important to maintain a distinction between what type of intellectual property these countries are stealing. If they steal drug recipes in order to save lives, well, it's stealing, but it's understandable to a certain degree (it's about life or death, like stealing from a pharmacy in order to save someone's life if you really can't afford the price). If they steal a spreadsheet or wordprocessor, it's less understandable and more about economics. If they steal the viagra recipe, video games, or cartoon characters, it's more about greed and shafting the 1st world developers. Why the distinction? Because entertainment is not some essential product that makes a life-or-death difference. In many cases (like entertainment products), there isn't much of a reason they could give that mitigates the stealing itself.
It's called Everland. It's really close to Disney land, but everything it just altered just a tad.
It's a small world ride for example had almost the same music but with a few off notes, and the message was removed.
Also they had the whole electric light parade in it's entirety, I mean actual White Americans that use to work at the real Disney land, doing almost the exact same thing but in Korea. Really freaked me out.
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
I say let them copy us. Copy us all you like. The more they become like us the less we have to fear from each other. Assimilation American Style.
They copy us because we have the best stuff. The best stuff they can come up with on their own is total crap.
Our stuff is better because we are more creative. We are more creative because we are more expressive. We are more expressive because we enjoy freedom. They do not. Ergo their stuff will always suck.
I never really worry about China. Unless they get their act together politically they will never be a serious threat to American hegemony.
So what if they make a few trillion exploiting a billion impoverished souls? It doesn't mean they have any real influence in the modern world. The best they can do is prop up North Korea to distract and annoy us.
Bash us all you will but the world still looks to America for leadership in all the ways that matter. China can only make believe.
He didn't make the trains actually run on time, but he took credit for doing so.
Believe it or not, his beard was not actually too tough for American razors, either.
Arguing the contrary at the time would have led to a beating and a massive dose of castor oil. Some fascist thugs have a sense of humor.
But how can you not know Ikea is from Sweden? They are famous for their Swedish Meatballs! And (at least around here) they have the Swedish flag on everything. Not to mention their stores are this color.
Luckily education here is rapidly going down the drain so it will even out eventually.
!ERR: Signature not found.
Where else can you see Rickey Rouse or Ronald Ruck?
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Maybe not a future Disneyland, but possibly a future "Enchanted Mormon World" - http://www.timesandseasons.org/archives/000893.htm lTIMES AND SEASONS- Part Two: The Enchanted Mormon World
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Actually, Cambodia has good work conditions compared to its neighbors. There was a story on "This American Life" a couple years ago which was quite interesting: http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1 109
See the part "Act Two. Dreams of Distant Factories."
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
disney is a country too... http://disneycruise.disney.go.com/dcl/en_US/ports/ islandTour?name=CastawayCayIslandTourPage