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Couple Busted For Shining Laser At Helicopter
coondoggie sends us to another Network World piece, this one about a couple charged with shining a green laser into the cockpit of a police helicopter. The FBI and the US attorney's office charged the California couple under a federal statute. They could end up paying a $250,000 fine and doing 20 years of jail time. "The complaint states that on November 8, 2007, at about 10:55 p.m., a green laser beam illuminated the cockpit of a Kern County Sheriff's Department helicopter, which was flying at 500 feet during routine patrol in Bakersfield, California. When the light hit the cockpit, it disoriented the Kern County Sheriff's pilot, causing pain and discomfort in his eyes for a couple of hours, the FBI said in a statement."
"Don't lase me, bro!"
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Was the laser attached to a missile launcher?
If you haven't made a developer cry, you've wasted a day.
Are these common laser pointers you find for use on PPT presentations and exercising your cat/dog without moving from the sofa? Or are these more powerful items?
Sums it all up, I think.
Put one of these powerful green lasers in the hands of an idiot and see that the first thing they'll do is shine it on somebody's face.
Nothing should happen to this couple.
FYI: I don't know what you guys are talking about half the time.
bullshit
pain and discomfort for several hours? yeah, right. Did it also cause him permanent emotional scarring and mental anquish? Or give him a phobia of green light as well?
overstating the injury/damages to get the charges to stick
Why worry before they get ordered to pay 20000? It's not gonna happen anyway.
It may seem excessive but as a pilot who's had some jerk shine a laser at me while I was on final I can say that I'm glad they caught them.
There's a lot that goes on when you're trying to land a plane and a small distraction can be disastrous.
Besides, it is a federal offense to do that kind of thing.
I hate the police as much as anyone, but that's not cool. Unless the helicopter is spotting pot farms, in which case an anti-aircraft missile should be used instead.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I guess people are bored of pointing lasers in cinemas we have to do something much more intelligent like shining them in aircraft. What sort of idiot figures this is a good idea, you might as well just shoot at it. Easy to punish though, have them drive 100mph down the highway in traffic and cover their eyes and ask if they are having fun yet.
bubba for us all.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to think "profiling is worse than the slaughter of innocent people..."
That an individual would have the ability to actually hit the pilot in the face with a laser (most likely a generic laser pointer) from 500 feet while the target was moving.. I mean what are the odds. That said, people who are stupid enough to even contemplate such an act do deserve what they get, assuming the description of the incident is valid, but I still have some doubts.
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
These people are idiots. However, it seems like it would be very difficult to prove intent during prosecution.
"To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
blatant stupidity and reckless disregard. There should be a price for stupid, rude, reckless behavior.
in the eyes, and over 500 ft?
The article didn't seem to indicate what kind of laser they used.
I also wonder how bad they where effected if they where still able to find the laser. That is just a point of curiosity. Certainly shining a laser of any significant power at an aircraft is to be frowned upon. Obviously excluding vehicles of war.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
GREEN LASER OF DEATH (as far as I could tell from the report; they said a $50 laser from RadioShack).
So... don't buy one of these pens or you might shine it at a chopper at night by accident and then spend 20 years in the slammer or pay a quarter mil or whatevs. Though for forking over that much dough for a stupid laser pen to begin with, a $250,000 fine may ironically be appropriate.
I like basketball!!1!
I wouldn't want to mess with a helicopter pilot. If he got disoriented enough, thats a giant blender coming out of the sky at you.
Good. The maximum punishment seems a tad harsh, but yeah, they should, in fact, be busted. What they did was dangerous, and they actually hurt somebody (the pilot). It could have been worse. The pilot could have been blinded. He could have crashed the helicopter right into somebody's house. Okay, so maybe they didn't mean any actual harm, and maybe the judge will take that into account.
I wasn't flying a helicopter, though. My retina had torn, and the surgeon welded it back together.
I fail to see why this story made slashdot. I read a newspaper article last year IIRC about a fellow getting jailed for shining a laser at a commercial air liner, which would be far more dangerous than shining it at a police helicopter. Well, to anybody but the guy with the laser anyway.
The danger, of course, is that the pilot will be blinded or disoriented and could crash the vehicle. After the surgery on my retina I couldn't see out of that eye for several hours. A passenger liner crash would kill more passengers than a helicopter with a couple of cops in it, and as it's bigger and has lots more fuel could kill more people on the ground.
If you're going to shine lasers at cops, do it on the ground. It will likely be the last thing you ever do, as they'll just figure you've got a laser sighted gun shoot you dead.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? Up to 20 years in prison and $250,000 fine? Murderers get away with less for manslaughter.
I don't know much about lasers (or anything, really), but 500 feet through surface-level air has gotta difuse a small laser at least somewhat. Pain and headaches for two hours? Come on! Somebody, puhleeze do the math. That pilot has gotta be lying, no? Or maybe the couple was using the new Lego Laser their son got last Christmas - don't they put out a few gigawatts?
- The Kessel run is for nerf herders. I can circumnavigate the entire Central Finite Curve in a lot less than 12 parse
I remember the original Merlin at the Excalibur in Las Vegas had a problem with lasers shooting into the eyes of the pilots taking off from McCarren. That was oversight in design though...
If there is REALLY a person on this planet who thinks that pilots eyes are fun to laser, they just need to be executed for stupidity.
Even a low powered laser when it hits the cockpit of a helicopter (especially at night) will illuminate every scratch in the plexi and even if it doesn't hit the pilot in the eye (which can blind) which makes it impossible to see. Flying a helicopter is very demanding (yes I have my PPL helicopter) and at night the demands are even higher. Remember those aircraft are millions of dollars, and might have four people onboard. On top of the damage you'd cause on the ground by causing a crash. These guys have a hard enough time doing their job, which might be chasing a car thief, or flying you to the hospital after a car accident. You'd think common sense would prevent this, but hey I guess that's out of the question.
Part of the problem is that Laws have become so stict that it prevents exersizing justice. Is the action illegal... Yes does it deserve 20 years and 5 years of pay, no. What would be more fare would be $5,000 fine. for a first offence. These huge life killing fines are unjust for the crime that are caused forcing the person into jail (for people who are not a continued danger to society) or Paying huge sumes of money will only make the problem worse... Oh a person commited a Crime Put him in Jail for 1/3 of his life and make sure when he gets out he can't pay any bills... That'll make sure he won't comment a crime again... a $5000 fine will be enough for the person to feel it and not willing to try again, but yet will be able to live his life as a productive and law abiding citizen.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Higher watt green lasers like this ClassIIIB http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/lights/ can definitely be considered a hazard in the hands of idiots.
Alright, let's see here. An average divergence for a class 3B green laser is around 1.2mRad, with a (on the large side) 1.5mm aperture.
.6 ft diameter which, while probably larger than the distance between eyes, I'd have
At 500 feet (152.4m):
1.5 + (152.4 * 1.2) mm = 18.438cm
Roughly
to say people that aim at planes and helicopters have really good aim. While the heli pilot could
easily have been hurt if this laser was of the higher powers one can easily get around the web
(ie 200mw), a plane is much further up, the cockpit would merely be green, the pilot would not
be hurt. Remember that energy decreases with area. It's probably a distance squared type thing, but
my physics is rusty.
Is it really that hard to NOT shine a laser at a helicopter? I mean the thing takes up maybe 30'' of arc of 180deg of sky... Idiots.
What right do you have to create a dangerous situation for pilots? The fact that no accident happened here should mitigate the penalties, but would you really want to be on the receiving end of a laser beam when you're trying to fly a helo or plane?
Why is this your rights online?
Sounds more and more like a plot to ban lasers for whatever reasons
I mean comon, we're talking about a small hand held laser device, not some computer guided auto target locking laser,
the average person will have problem aiming it at something stationary 50 ft away due to the natural shaking of the hand, let alone a flying target 500 ft away
that's why it takes a long time to master marksmanship, this is not something human can do naturally
looking at some of the other related news, somehow everybody seems to be able to aim at pilot's eyes from long distance
something smells fishy here
that some of you even think it's even remotely okay in some circumstances to point a laser at anyone. You take technology as common place and think even a small laser couldn't hurt.
I'm not even going to comment on the "...better that it's a copter and not a commercial plane".
They could have downloaded half a dozen songs of the internet!
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Put one of these powerful helicopters in the hands of a power-hungery cop and see that the first thing they'll do is noisily hover over my house, disrupting whatever I was doing.
Seriously, do they not realize that they're *also* a nuisance to people on the ground?
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Can't they develop cockpit glass that will filter out that particular wavelength?
but more then if the accidentally shot someone with a gun?
First time offense? 5-10G and a year of community service.
Make it hurt, but don't destroy them.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
We can probably agree that at first glance, the FBI going after this couple because the pilot of the helicopter had a headache for several hours seems like using a jackhammer to swat a fly. But consider: lasing an aircraft (putting a laser on an aircraft) for any reason is a federal offense, making it the FBI's domain. [FYI the reason it is a federal offense to begin with is that the air space over the country is not considered "state property", otherwise you could have a California Aviation Administration, a Nevada Aviation administration, etc. etc. and all of the aviation systems need to work together]. Coupled with the fact that virtually everything you can do with an aircraft can have an interstate commerce connection, making it Federal vs. state anyway)
Anyway, this has to be considered a significant offense for two reasons reasons, the first being the one they quote: disorient a pilot and you put the pilot and any one in the neighborhood of the craft in danger. Think of the response if you dropped a paint filled balloon from an overpass onto a vehicle on a busy freeway, same type of thing. The second reason is similar: because lasers are damn straight sighting mechanisms and reflect back to an observer in an electronically or optically observable manner, anything from a high powered rifle to an anti-aircraft gun or missile can be targeted on the aircraft resulting in a significantly higher probability of a hit.
What the law can't do is say "well, there's no harm to doing ___X___" if every time someone does ___X___, other people are put at risk. Which is why "driving under the influence" is a crime even if no one got hurt. Maybe the couple doesn't deserve a huge fine and twenty years in jail. But they did the crime even inadvertently and there has to be a measurable penalty as a deterrent to other idiots doing the same thing.
My question is, are we readers on slashdot so reactive to anything the government does that we tacitly give permission and headline space to all of the idiots of the world who get in trouble for doing what they ought to have known they shouldn't?
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
If a baby duck is a "duckling," why would anyone want to eat "dumplings?"
Interesting to find out what legal loophole the FBI/US attorney used. The don't shine weird stuff at flying objects law! I agree they should be fined, what if the chopper crashed or something? Something slightly more dangerous than doing something similar to a car. How did they get caught? That's just plain weird. The max penalty is outrageous though.
I'm glad these guys were arrested and I hope they get the book thrown at them.
I was driving along the highway one time at night 2 years ago, and a laser beam was shined into my car. For all you guys that think that the pilot is bullshitting, you guys are idiots. The laser flashed me for a split-second, and even though the laser went through the car windshield or whatever (I'm not sure where it came from) I was totally blinded. I was able to safely pull over, but had I been driving fast or in the middle of traffic, I probably could have easily killed my wife and my two kids. One eye was worse than the other but it got better, but as a precaution, my wife drove the rest of the way, but I was infuriated that this happened, and that some dumbass with a laser pointer could have killed me.
We need laws like that so people who attempt to blind people piloting planes, helicopters, cars, or whatever go to jail and learn a good lesson.
Need a bit more background here. Was the laser attached to a missile launcher?
No, there is plenty of information in the summary, let alone the article. When disorienting a pilot flying at 500 feet, and impairing his vision, a missile launcher is not needed to put human life in jeopardy. That includes the pilot and crew and the families below that may have a fuel ladened aircraft crash into their homes.
These people are being punished, not because they actually caused a problem, but because they COULD have caused one? that problem being the helicopter crashing?
That makes perfect sense!
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I just purchased a 55mw green laser a couple months ago, and I love it. It goes for miles with a clear, visible beam at night. It can even pop black balloons at close range! I take care to look for low flying aircraft before I point it into the sky, and I always make sure that it's not being aimed at anyone. Time-lapse laser photography is very good fun, too. I really wish idiots like these two wouldn't ruin it for the rest of us.
But not to the target of the stupidity.
OCO is Loco
That's the problem. Green lasers are powerful, and they are very bright (intrinsically, plus the sensitivity of our eyes to green). If you misuse them, you can hurt somebody with them. What else is new?
I own one myself, and use it as a pointer for astronomy. It works really well. I am careful where I point it. I am careful who I allow to use it.
If I deliberately pointed it at an aircraft to try to distract the pilot, that would indeed be A Bad Thing.
If an aircraft accidently happened to wander in to the path when I was showing somebody where M31 or Comet 17P/Holmes was, is it a crime? I don't think so.
...laura
In Phoenix a 12 year old boy was arrested for shining a green laser into helicopters. He had done it before this time they were able to triangulate where he was and go arrest him. You can buy a green laser for a couple hundred bucks that is powerful enough to burn through things.
Hey y'all, watch this!
668: Neighbour of the Beast
F*ck that whinny officer, if he was just *doing* his job he would know about the occupational hazards that accompany it. How can a couple with a 'sky' laser pointer be held liable for pointing at objects in the sky in the privacy of their own backyard. Why are police allowed to snoop into our backyards at their discretion? They are supposed to be serving and protecting, but they just abuse their power to instill fear into the American public. That is why law abiding citizens who do nothing wrong still fear police. Stories like this make me disgusted with our law enforcement / justice system. I hope fate/karma take care of POS officer.
Seriously, if someone is invading your airspace, shoot them down.
Of course, be ready to handle the retaliation.
The USA has become a police state.
If even the stupid pranks normal kids do now has become a "terroristic" (sic) activity, punishable by close to life imprisonment.
This is what happens when the sheeple believe the governments blatant fearmongering of imaginary threats everywhere in order to justify giving themselves and the police ultimate power. Its the Salem Witch trials and the McCarthy era all over again except this time its terrorists under the bed not commies or witches.
Its time the american people grew some balls and stood up together to end this shit.
I was a laser and electro-optics major in 1982 and back then it was explained to us that pointing a laser at any aircraft was a felony. Of course, the lasers we had back then were considerably less portable (and we had to carry them uphill, both ways, to classes), but my point it that this law has been on the books for a long time.
It may be (as it is in some other cases, notably spectrum interference) that it doesn't matter about whether or not you were there first- the plane had a right to be there, and your obligation is to avoid it, period.
That would make it your fault regardless of whether the plane accidentally wandered into your beam or you intentionally wandered the beam into the aircraft.
Of course, that's all speculating.
"It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
If an aircraft accidently happened to wander in to the path when I was showing somebody where M31 or Comet 17P/Holmes was, is it a crime? I don't think so.
It may not be a crime, but you may still be liable for the incident. It is probably your responsibility to not illuminate aircraft. Much like it is a shooter's responsibility to make sure downrange is clear. You may set up a target in the desert and intend to shoot only at the target, but if you hit someone/something a mile downrange you are responsible.
It is a virtual certainty that if a crash results you will be sued into oblivion.
Aircraft don't suddenly appear, they move across fairly predictable paths.
If an aircraft were moving towards the area you were shining the laser, would you turn it off, or keep it shining?
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
"I hate the police as much as anyone..."
apparently not as much as these people! dang. Just imagine how long you have to aim a laser at a moving target before hitting a sub-target as small as the pilot's eye... that's a lot of time to be contemplating whether or not you should be doing what you're doing.
stuff |
Did they not install green lasers near the whitehouse after 911 as a notification system when you breach the no-fly zone near the capitol?? If I had more time (at work) I would look it up, but I'm pretty darn sure of it. Now if the feds can use this as a notification system, how could a pilot claim pain and suffering from a consumer grade version?
...I say it makes perfect sense. They could have killed two people, and didn't. "Attempted murder", anyone?
I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.
We're not talking about the Blue Thunder here. Police helicopters are usually well lit and very noisy so it's not terribly hard to figure out where it's going. If it'll cross the path of your laser, your instructional session can wait.
A new Bonnie and Clyde? Now with lasers?
My UID is prime. Hah!
No way is hitting a helicopter 500ft in the air for long enough to cause discomfort to the pilot inadvertant. Even getting the laser near thee helicopter which is obviously there is as "vertant" as it gets.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Chief: Do not be alarmed. Continue swimming naked.
More Twoson than Cupertino
If an aircraft accidently happened to wander in to the path
If it was a plane it'd be flying at anywhere from 100 feet/second on up, so beam exposure would be sub-millisecond on any given part of the plane (or cockpit). Since helicopters can fly slowly or hover, it's less certain how long an accidental exposure might be -- although presumably the whole point of a green laser is that's it's bright enough to see the beam reflecting off dust in the air. The pilot might be a little surprised to see a beam materialize in front of him and move suddenly to avoid, but that's not the same as having the thing illuminating his cockpit. The latter seems to imply some deliberate aiming on the part of whoever is shining the laser.
-- Alastair
I'm not sure who modded this -1 as over rated. It is an objective statement of fact. Light emitting diodes are not lasers. Someone with some sense should mod the parent differently. Calling these solid state devices "lasers" is a colloquialism.
Not really. Companies manufacture this stuff and people like to play with them. This couple claims to be just playing with it out in their yard when the helicopter overflew it. Basically the FBI and police arresting them should have been enough to swear them off this sort of thing.
What gets me is how the pilot and observer could track the laser even after he had been hit. You'd think if it was that uncomfortable to put someone away for 25 years and slap them with a huge fine then you'd be landing in a parking lot somewhere with tears in your eyes.
[J]
I used to think it was impossible for these small lasers to cause so much trouble ... but where I live, there have been several news stories about people shooting relatively low-powered red lasers at cars going past and distracting/scaring the drivers. And just last month, I had it happen to ME! I was driving home when suddenly, a bright red beam flickered around the inside of my car for a couple of seconds. It really startled me, because it was much more "intense" of a light than you'd get from any other colored light you might drive past (like a neon sign), and rather than illuminating the inside of my car like a normal light would - it just seemed to bounce off any reflective surface while everything else stayed dark.
I doubt such a beam could really damage a driver's eyes, because they'd practically have to shine it at your face, head-on. But it's just a jarring thing to encounter when you aren't expecting it.
I think that the only reason that this is going as far as it is, is because the laser was pointed at a police chopper. If it were any other chopper I dont think that it would be this big a deal.
Right, because the citizens of Bakersfield, California are powerless to regulate Police Department policy... oh, wait.
See, these people would have a lot more of my sympathy if they had first advocated a change in Police Department policy, and then when the majority of their fellow community members declined to support their cause they moved out of that community to a community that agreed with their preferences, and the Bakersfield PD helicopter followed them to that new community and continued to harass them.
Police Departments don't magically appear out of nowhere, like some mist-born horror that must be battled at all costs with whatever weapons come readily to hand. They are, by and large, the product of communal agreement, and most communities--including Bakersfield, California--have plenty of resources for community members to debate their preferences and reach a peaceful consensus on policies that affect the community. If this couple were living in the mountains of Afghanistan in the mid-1980s, I could understand them attacking helicopters with lasers and more. But in Bakersfield, California? Their beef is with their fellow community members who set the Police helicopter patrol policy, not the pilot of a helicopter in flight.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Speaking as a resident of Bakersfield, I must say that I'm not without sympathy. That helicopter annoys the heck out of everyone in the middle of the night.
Still a bad idea, though, I must admit.
How to enable garbage collection on a system without protected memory: #define malloc() ((void *) rand())
but more then if the accidentally shot someone with a gun?
Hello, helicopter filled with aircraft fuel and spinning parts hovering over multiple people's homes?
Even a stray gunshot that hits someone usually only wounds somebody. A helicopter going down is far more dangerous a hazard, to many more people not to mention people's property.
First time offense? 5-10G and a year of community service.
If it was at all intentional (and I cannot believe it was an accident given the situation) some jail time is called for. Perhaps not twenty years, but something significant. You can't just laugh off the offense or any joker with a bunch of money to blow can park out by the airport and have a laugh.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Hurt at 500 feet? What laser did they have? One of those that cost 50 000$??? BS spined by lawyers
Its not that hard to determine if they were guilty. Just find out if the laser was attached to a shark. :P
am I reading slashdot? or Rush Limbaugh's Discussion Board for the Advancement of Police States? If they were maliciously trying to tag the pilot w/ the laser, then sure, punish them. But if they're playing with a laser and it happened to flash across the pilot's face...I dunno--it seems extreme to me to freak out and invoke the FBI. Accidents happen--this wasn't nearly a big enough deal to be worth the fuss, let alone condemning the ruthless RadioShack Laser User Terrorists.
Yes, prosecutors would have to prove the requisite mental state which is probably one requiring intent, but we would have to look at the specific code section to see.
Can't they develop cockpit glass that will filter out that particular wavelength?
That would cost too much. Simpler solution would to be develop "Ruby Quartz" goggles/sunglasses ala Cyclops from X-men.
That's a good point.
Now I'm going to explain to you how it works in the real world. In the real world, I have no hope of modifying police department policy, even if I did all that. Furthermore, even if I did get official policy changed, pilots have significant discretion to deviate from altitude requirements, and then how do I meausre that he acted in contravention of them? And even if I did file a complaint, using equipment capable of measuring noise, how long until it's acted upon?
ALL because a cop didn't give a damn about the people he's flying over, cause gosh, it's just much more convenient to hover low.
Anyway, I accept that they're going to be conflicting interests between law enforcement that needs to catch people, and the the people who want to avoid cop-related nuisances. That's understandable, and I don't mean to paint the laser-pointer people as 100% justified, sorry if I gave that impression.
It's just that I'm appalled that the cop has to nerve to gripe about those gosh-darn laser-pointing nuisances making it SO hard to fly over them, apparently not even realizing how big a nuisance HE is to them.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
These stories come up every couple months, about people shining green lasers at aircraft and then getting arrested for it... I think the situation that the FBI is really concerned about, which is why people who shine lasers at aircraft should all be caught and prosecuted, is that shining a 10mW laser at an aircraft is one thing, shining a kW laser is another. If these people shined a high powered kW laser at the aircraft, it *WOULD* blind the pilot, and it *COULD* destroy the aircraft... We're going to have real problems when kW lasers come down in price to the point where you can get them cheap on ebay for a couple hundred bucks.
They said they were looking up at the sky watching the laser trace around. No way you miss a helicopter being there and "accidentally" trace into it long enough to hurt the pilot.
The very fact they admitted they were looking up instead of just wildly shining it around is quite an admission.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Who else is hoping someone got a picture of these two being arrested so that they can add it to the ThinkGeek product page as an action shot?
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
Well for the laser to shine into the cockpit and hit the pilot in the eye then it couldn't have been directly above them. The article says the helicopter was at 500 feet -- it would have been impossible to miss if that was anywhere near them. So it was likely quite some distance away, and over a city, so it's not an unreasonable supposition that they could neither hear nor see the helicopter.
:(
However also according to the article, one of the couple said that they had been "taking turns shining the laser around watching the tracers in the sky."
Waving a green laser around at a relatively low angle at the horizon in a populated area just for kicks seems pretty irresponsible. If you want to do that just point it at the ground nearby where you know it's safe (and makes neat patterns on the grass =D). This is a far cry from pointing at the night's sky to point out stellar objects, especially since normally astronomy is done away from a city where the lights of a police helicopter would be obvious, and you aren't waving the laser around so the odds of someone moving -into- the beam are pretty minimal (as opposed to here, where they were sweeping large swaths of sky).
I'm not sure this should be a criminal offense in this instance, but a pilot was injured and could have been blinded, and people do need to learn how to use lasers responsibly before the gov. decides to take them away from us.
The enemies of Democracy are
Now if the feds can use this as a notification system, how could a pilot claim pain and suffering from a consumer grade version?
Because the consumer grade versions are easily powerful enough to do so?
Possibly the federal warning system is more dispersed, and tailored to not cause blinding by spreading out to the degree at the target. They after all probably have a very expensive laser system, vs commercial grade green lasers which are built to go as straight as they can for as long as they can.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This is in YRO, so it's obvious the MPAA is going to make sure they get the maximum sentence, so they can be sent to Gitmo and be tortured by RIAA henchmen.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
I agree and I call shenanigans on the cops. Try and point a laser pointer at a stationary object that far away. You can't hold it still enough. Even if a helicopter was hovering in place, I'll bet that the victim pilot couldn't hold a beam on something as small as a helmet visor inside a cockpit from a quarter-mile away for anything longer than a fraction of a second. Wahhhhhhhh.....
Howd they find out who did it if the piggy pilot couldnt see? Fuck da police.
So because you feel politically helpless, you're justified in shining a laser beam at a police helicopter, possibly making it crash? If you want to take civil disobedience to that level, you should remove the uncertainty and get a rocket launcher. And while you're at it, I suggest you join Al Qaida or Christian Identity or some such organization. Because if you're going to be a terrorist, you might as well belong to the union.
Sorry, not buying it. The odds of shining a narrow focus beam directly into a pilot's tiny pupils, over a great distance, likely through a floor/door/visor, etc. are just too incredible.
I've got choppers flying around me here and I just can't see it happening. Literally. Who the hell has such good eyesight they can aim a laser that well without something like a telescope, binoculars or a viewfinder? The article doesn't say but if these aids weren't present then I'm simply not believing it.
I know about morons shining these things at planes on final approach but those are people standing directly in the path of planes with the noses down just well enough to provide direct line of sight AND the pilots are looking in their general direction at the landing lights, so it's a bit more plausible - but still hard to believe.
The judge [or jury] isn't obliged to believe that you are telling the truth. Even when you are under oath. Even when your testimony is not directly contradicted. His only obligation is to make a decision based on the evidence as a whole. How many Geeks have to learn this lesson the hard way?
If the charge is based on conduct that is defined as criminally careless, reckless as a matter of law then your "intent" isn't going to matter very much:
"I'm sorry we pointed a laser at the cockpt. I am sorry we held it there long enough to blind the pilot. I am sorry he crashed the plane. I am sorry about the people who died on the ground."
Sometimes feeling sorry isn't good enough,
Look, I don't want some silly 'accident' getting people in trouble, but if they are using a laser they should be aware of the consequences of pointing it at anything.
I'm glad that nothing serious happened, and if it was an accident, I will hope that they get a small fine, or a lecture, or whatever. If they thought it'd be funny to point at the helicopter, that's their problem.
I haven't seen a laser like this that doesn't have warnings pasted all over them. Sure, most people don't read that stuff, but it doesn't absolve them entirely of liability because they don't want to.
Actually, in the real world you should take the helo's tail number and complain to the FAA. The FAA does go after aircraft that fly too low, community noise complaints are something they take seriously - and that includes bumping heads with local police departments.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
If an aircraft accidently happened to wander in to the path when I was showing somebody where M31 or Comet 17P/Holmes was, is it a crime?
If the aircraft was flying then it would just as soon fly out of any laser beam. You'd need to have a (near) stationary helicopter.
There's also the issue of if the pilot were to deliberatly fly into the beam...
Does anyone else remember a CSI Episode about this exact same thing? I want to say it was Miami, but either way a guy who was sick of aircraft flying over his house, shined a GREEN laser pointer into a cockpit, causing the pilot to become irritated and unable to fly. If I remember correctly the aircraft crashed, and the partridge boy solved the mistery by removing his glasses and talking in a low, "I am hardcore" voice or Grissom found a bug that labeled the exact angle and driection the laser pointer hit the plane. Regardless, is this another case of someone watching something on TV and getting the bright idea to put it into practice?
I've owned one of these lasers for a little over two years now. It is nothing short of amazing to hold in your hand and press the button on what is nothing more than a pen sized laser pointer that will illuminate an object over 40 miles away. When you first take hold of one of these at night, the desire to point out any and every object you can see with your naked eye is overwhelming. It takes a better man than I am to resist that temptation. Then if you have the opportunity to illuminate a moving object? It is a very natural desire, I've felt it. Its like seeing a car accident and avoiding the temptation to even look. It is easy to criticize.
When my wife took hold of the laser, we were driving in the car in SoCal and she illuminated a mansion up on a hill and exclaimed "This thing is AWESOME!" which was one of the only times in memory she has shown avid approval of any of my "toys". Then she said "I can see why people want to shine this at flying objects."
If you illuminate any of the reflective street signs with the laser, it is amazingly impressive. The entire sign, regardless of size, illuminates so blindingly bright that you cannot look at it. Do this at a street sign over a freeway and you could easily cause an accident.
To avoid the temptation not to play with one of these is too great. I sympathize with this couple completely.
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
Not to compare this "incident" to shooting someone, but...
If I'm at the shooting range, putting the new Benelli I got for Christmas through its paces, and someone wanders out onto the range, I don't think anyone could claim that I am not at fault when I shoot that person. Yes, in this case it may have been foolish of that person. On the other hand, maybe I wasn't paying attention and missed an all clear on the shooting line. Anyhow, in this hypothetical situation, someone got shot, and I did the shooting. Just because I was using the firearm as designed doesn't mean I'm not in deep shit (although, arguably, the guy I just blasted a hole in is in significantly DEEPER shit...)
These things require responsible use. Aircraft are covered in flashing lights and the like. They make lots of noise. They are highly detectable. I don't think there is any way this can be blamed on anything but irresponsibility of the people wielding the laser. Is the fine outrageous? Probably. Is the jail-time outrageous? Probably. Does that negate the responsibility of those involved? Not at all. It is not the job of the pilot to dodge lasers; it is the job of those wielding lasers to avoid the pilots.
-G
Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
As a pilot I say they will hopefully get what they deserve.
1. the pilot was less than 2 football fields off the ground.
2. These green lasers like from Thinkgeek can burn holes in thing and have VERY clear warnings about what will happen if one gets pointed into an eye.
3. Heli was patrolling so it was not moving very fast and was over populated area.
The comments on this as if the couple is being persecuted by "then Man" are hard to understand.
If you look at this as "Couple on ground attempts to incapacitate pilot of fuel filled vehicle sporting whirling blades over populated area", how do you feel about the penalty?
What if they tried to incapacitate the pilot with a rifle? Lets face it landing while blind doesn't give much in the way of survival chances. Yes, with good GPS and someone on the ground guiding them and the blessings of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and... yeah, still not good chances.
If they blinded the pilot and he crashed on them, we would probably already see this tagged "Darwin award" and "lol".
If the pilot crashed on your loved ones, you would want the couple dead.
If the pilot crashed into the UPS truck that was just about to deliver your new Alienware for xmas.. well, lets consider that a loved one.
If a week after release they blind you on the street with the pointer?
Lets look at the act rather than the end result. The issue is these people are intentionally doing something that can kill and/or cripple people. It is either malice or through not reading/believing the warning, stupidity. Should we let them go just because they are dumb?
Is it just that the pointer is not as dramatic or understood as a gun? If the couple spend a couple hours with a rifle shooting at people but didn't manage to do more harm than leave someone with a ringing in their ears, would people complain if this penalty was applied to them?
If every aeroplane and helicopter had a nice air-to-surface missile preprogrammed to launch at the direction of light beams that enter the cockpit, no one would be targetting them with lasers purposefully*.
Any way, Wikipedia has some info on airspace laser safety here. Anyone who targets people with lasers, especially pilots, is probably mad. Even regular light can be dangerous in the cockpit.
* That's a joke. and I speak generally, I have no idea whether this incident was an accident or not.
I suspect the legal situation is indeed similar to being out in the woods shooting. You know what you are doing is hazardous, so you must take precautions. You must know what you're doing, must be doing appropriate things with your toys, and you must take care to make sure you don't hit anybody. This is the difference between criminal negligence and an accident.
In the current climate, especially in the USA, stuff like this tends to always be viewed as criminal negligence (or worse). It's always on a guilty-until-proven-innocent basis, too.
In one of those "Oh, sh**!" moments, it just occured to me that one of the local dark sky sites is on an approach to the international airport (YVR), and adjacent to a regional airport (YDT). My laser pointer is a new acquisition, so I haven't had occasion to take it to Boundary Bay. I will be very careful if I do.
...laura who always looks carefully for aircraft before pressing the button, no matter where she is
These asshole fly WAY TO close to homes here in San Diego (like 100 ft). We could throw a rock at these guys and do more damage than a laser. WTF???
Maybe there should be a minimum 500 ft ceiling in residental areas.
I'm sick of getting my pool "buzzed" every time there a female in a bikini out there!
I guess we got to wait until one crashed and someone DIES before teh morons in Sacremento will do something.
San Diego... What a lame ass county
As some of you have pointed out, the divergence of the laser should be taken into account, however, these green lasers operate at a wavelength that the human eye is particularly sensitive to. The eye does not have a flat response to the visible spectrum as one might think. The green hues are the ones that the eye is most sensitive to, as such a little bit of green light will seem disproportionately brighter than the same fluence of, say, red light. As for blocking these green wavelenghts, do you really want to be flying around in a vehicle that can not see anything green (i.e. building lights, other aircraft light, etc.)?
OK, lets assume that the couple were incredibly lucky and bulls-eyed the pilot's eye. Both the blink reflex and the fact that the helicopter must have been moving at least some would have limited the exposure to less than a quarter of a second. If this couple was indeed using one of the cheap green laser pointers, there is no way that the cop had eye pain for hours afterward. He certainly probably had a startle effect, and a momentary decrease in vision, but unless he was taking off or landing or doing some other critical action this would have been of minimal concern. If it disoriented him, this guy obviously needs to not be flying low above homes if that's all it takes to make him incapable of safely operating a helicopter. Though I think the most likely thing is that he got all butt-hurt and wants to extract revenge by claiming injury that was not realistically possible.
Interestingly enough ThinkGeek publishes a warning at the bottom of the sales page for their laser as follows:
So the idea that a peson doesn't know that they are not supposed to lase an aircraft kinda gets shot right there, because I'll bet every green laser sold carries the same kind of warning.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
What in the world are you talking about??
I think the couple should have been given a fine 4 or 5 times the equivalent of the fines given for drunken driving. (Because a helicopter can destroy 4 or 5 times stuff than what a drunken driver can).
You need a green laser pointer to find comet Holmes?! Or M31 for that matter...they're both huge and a bad example. Anyone with a pair of binocs can find them without a laser pointer to "point the way."
I'm an astronomer myself and for the life of me I don't understand why I would need a green laser pointer to locate anything. That's why we have Rigel finders or Telrads, and they work great without the threat of eye damage or causing the Sheriff's helecopter to come crashing to the ground.
... neighbors barking dog. Return the favor - don't give a shit about them.
This has got to be some bullshit.
What sort of laser causes disorientation and pain in the eyes for hours? (After a fraction of a second of indirect exposure, and at long range?)
I'm not sure I buy this. Yes you can point the laser on the clouds at night on a cloudy night. You can't really see the beam unless there is mist in the air though. The last time I did this I bet the clouds were just 500 feet up around here. I bet you can even accurately hand target a helicopter flying at 500 feet up. I know I can easily hit the side of a tall palm tree which must be a good 500 feet away across the neighborhood. But blinding the pilot and causing eye problems for two hours? I just don't see that happening. Not unless they have one heck of a laser. And maybe they do. Anyone heard what the power of the laser used it? If it is the same as the one I have I am tempted to rig up some sort of remote control device where I can control the activation of the green laser form my back yard and go up with a safety pilot who would wear eye protection and turn it on and fly through it just to see what happens. Unfortunately nobody is likely to do such a test and these guys who did this are going to get a harsher penalty than they deserve. If they did it on purpose they surely deserve something though.
Using lasers could be a good way for people involved in an armed standoff with police to keep the police behind cover and unable to shoot or observe what is happening.
You're right, they don't. What I want to know is: Why the hell not? That would be cool as hell Somebody call John Carpenter... this would make a great movie!
What is the effective range of your pointer?
You probably have a defense if it's a jumbo jet moving at mach 0.6 at 20,000 feet. Maybe not if it's a helicopter at 250-500 feet and closing at a speed of only 45 mph or so. Neither silent or invisible.
Were you paying attention? Were you as careful as you needws to be with that pointer? You had better be damn sure M31 was in line of sight with the aircraft before taking this argument into court.
Yes... I fly with them occasionally, and they are very aware of this. We had a call for something serious in a neighborhood next to an outdoor festival -- they purposefully kept away from the festival so that it wouldn't disturb it and wouldn't look like they were monitoring it. I know all the cops who fly in our city (it's just a handful), and they're all very professional. Hope the same's true in your city -- flying the helicopter is a privilege; they don't just stick any bozo in it.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
From the ThinkGeek.com green laser pointer product description...
.5" dia
Features of this unit include:
* Very bright green laser at 532 nm wavelength
* Output power of 5mW (Class IIIa Laser Product)
* Range of approximately 9,000 ft (2600 m) in darkness
* 1.1 mm beam diameter at source
* Momentary push button switch
* Solid, heavy duty construction
* Constant wave output (as opposed to pulse output)
* Takes 2 "AAA" batteries (included)
* Can be used for skypointing, projection on low clouds, signalling, detecting explosives --*****!?!?!
* Dimensions: 5.6" x
* 90-day warranty
* Available in Black or Silver color
WTF???
"That's no moon!"
Just an interesting read - a few pilot reports about lasers:
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/publications/callback/cb_332.htm
Alright Lou, open fire.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
if some asshat from the police or fbi are bugging me an innocent civilian by flying by my home at night, i should be able to shoot a laser beam or flare gun near them to tell them to get the fuck off my back.
... just don't use a green light to read the tail number.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
All this is dependent on your community not being a bunch of T.V. addled scared to death debtors who view your knocking on their door as the precursor to a home invasion robbery. So in a democracy where the people are participants you'd be spot on, but in most suburbs I've seen, police are something foisted on them, not so much a communal agreement, by the whimsy of a mayor elected by 8% of the population trying to get more funding.
It would be too late if you shine it into your eyes or your loved one's eyes. I would never keep such kind of dangerous toy. Sht happens.
"It's just that I'm appalled that the cop has to nerve to gripe about those gosh-darn laser-pointing nuisances making it SO hard to fly over them, apparently not even realizing how big a nuisance HE is to them."
Let me put it to you in simple terms.
Noise from a police helicopter may be annoying but it isn't going to kill you.
Hitting a pilot in the eyes with a laser isn't annoying it is dangerous. It could kill you, your family, the pilot, and the observer.
In other words, what?????
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
The answer to your question is no. Seems like most everyone here agrees they behaved like idiots, and that messing with a pilot's vision is life-threatening, and if the story is all true they probably deserve to be charged and hauled before a judge. But I can't buy your second reason the way you said it:
Maybe you are saying that the pilot and passengers might have thought they were being targeted by anti-aircraft fire, hence losing their heads and crashing due to panic, not due to being struck by any weapon. That's not a bad reason, but it isn't what you said. You said nothing about the laser causing unsafe flying; rather, about the laser causing a missile hit. I would paraphrase your reason as, "Not only is the laser itself disorienting to the pilot, but also this laser technology is used for even worse things: weapons that could have taken down this helicopter!"Whether or not you meant that, the very same kind of silly reasoning is rampant these days: "This technology can be used for bad things, so the technology itself is bad! Let's suppress the technology, make its name synonymous with its misuse, and assume the worst about anyone who is using it." Hence, "Don't just punish these idiots for their crime, also punish them because they were brandishing the laser half of a laser-guided missle!" In general, since technology X can be used for $VERY_BAD, any offense with technology X deserves extra punishment. Certain analogies are unavoidable.
The same thing happened in Boston when Adult Swim advertised Aqua Teen Hunger Force and the police went berserk over some illegally placed glowing lights -- which I assume is something like a littering offense. Their explanation was that they thought the glowing lights and the visible batteries might have been a bomb -- since, from movies, we know bombs have glowing LEDs on them. So let's prosecute the perps for a hoax bomb on top of littering.
This kind of delusion if taken to its logical conclusion would involve attempted murder charges for, say, a larceny where the robbers tied up the victims with rope. (Rope can be used for hanging someone.) A peeping tom who uses a telescope would be charged the same as a sniper. Sharing mp3s = commercial piracy. And so on.
I daresay that we, the proud members of the Nation of /., oppose this kind of perverse justice. We don't excuse wrongdoing, but we do try to put the wrongdoing in the proper perspective.
$META_SIG_JOKE
Yeah, but what about UFOs? Hmm? I reckon them aliens don't take too kindly to all them green lasers shinin' in their eyes and whatnot, assumin' they be havin' eyes n' stuff.
BitWorksMusic.com -- odd tunes for odd times
1. Light devices of all sorts will be declared weapons and banned from civilian possession.
2. Light devices will very, very soon increase in power, becoming the deadliest hand weapon. Totally silent, immensely destructive, and can range and target before burn. Hm. Think of what you could do with a series hybrid electric car and a laser. Generator, meet light gun. See steel burn. See war protester burn. See your tires burn. Hell, they can just blind you. Remember, George Lucas acolytes, lasers aren't revolvers. They also can fire continuously, so they can spray an entire crowd. One light gun can take out a crowd in seconds.
3. Cops will use them against us, both to burn and to blind. Corporate armies will use them against us and the rest of the world. Corporate police can use them against... you get the picture. They will take them from us and then we'll see them used against us.
Anyone want to take that bet?
4. Same people that boo civvies will cheer cops and armies. Sorry, had to say that.
It's just that I'm appalled that the cop has to nerve to gripe about those gosh-darn laser-pointing nuisances making it SO hard to fly over them, apparently not even realizing how big a nuisance HE is to them.
Ok, here's the deal. No one cares that you're appalled. Really, not the teensiest, tiniest bit.
Even if you set yourself on fire while declaring that you're appalled, no one would care. Ever.
You're an idiot for comparing a noise nuisance to endangering the life of another human being. Period.
Welcome to the wonderful world of lasers: They're high energy, highly focused, parallel, beams of light. Which is why they make such nice pinpoints. Since the pinpoint at 500 feet is as small as the pinpoint at 10 feet, the number of photons going out at the source is about the same as the number hitting the pinpoint, so 500 feet or 20 feet or 1 foot is exactly the same bloody thing.
A few years ago, I had some kids shine a laser pointer in my eyes while I was driving a car on a dark road, with my family aboard. It caused me to drive off onto the shoulder of the road. If I had lost slightly more control, it would have cost my family their lives.
Doing this to someone is no joke. It is not an innocent crime, as it is far more dangerous than it sounds. In my case, it amounted to something approaching attempted murder (since I'm sure that the people doing it knew it had the potential to be dangerous, although they may not have considered how dangerous).
Doing it to a helicopter, where it could cause the pilot to lose control, and not only kill the pilot but occupants of dwellings below, is even more serious.
Except most of the ones you listed were not actually supposed to be lasers! All the ship weapons were forms of "blaster". Ship-level versions of the same type as Han's blaster. (Which he shot first!)
Why, yes I have been touched by His noodly appendage. And I plan to sue.
Many helicopters have transparent floors under the pilots so they can better see around the aircraft while flying/hovering. It is entirely possible that the laser shined up into the cockpit from below.
:)
Ah, that's a very good point (and makes a lot of sense for a police helicopter). I'm still thinking they accidentally shined it at a helicopter far away since there's no way you could fail to notice a helicopter 500 feet above you, not to mention it'd be pretty foolish to think you could get away with deliberately shining the laser at the helicopter when they're looking right down at your house, and then claim that you didn't mean to. I think "irresponsible" fits the facts as a better explanation than "malicious/retarded".
The enemies of Democracy are
I agree with the senitment, but thinking about it, I don't see how they could do so without crippling our civilization. Lasers are, simply, EVERYWHERE. There are, by my count, 18 lasers just in the room I'm in (that I know of). Every DVD burner has a blue laser that can blast your retina into oblivion in a matter of moments. They're in our cars, in our schools, in our homes. I think this is a case of Bester's PyrE. Its out in the hands of the people now, and we're going to have to learn to use it responsibly or suffer the consequences.
The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
As a helicopter pilot and an aviation safety officer (probably one of the few on /.) I can tell you that the danger to the pilots and the aircraft cannot be overstated. Laser illumination from the ground can result in full or partial blindness, and it can be either temporary or permanent. If you get blinded while you're flying a helicopter, you and everybody on the bird are gonna die. No ifs, ands, or buts about it--you will be a smoking hole in a field somewhere, and if you come down in civilization you'll take folks on the ground with you. I'm sorry these folks didn't know about the law, but "ignorance of the law is no excuse" and I sincerely believe this to be a completely justified law.
They could make it illegal to have any hand-held or non-enclosed laser above some truly pathetic wattage outside of research labs which would have to be enclosed and well-labeled and the laser light would have to be entirely contained within the room, so there would still be lasers in your DVD player, but no green laser pointers on Think Geek. No more carrying around a laser to point at parts of the building your making, or the particular "third star from the big 'V'" you meant.
The fact that it would still be possible to rip the laser out of your dvd player doesn't mean they couldn't pass such a law -- for one, this is the law, so it's perfectly okay as far as lawmakers go for it to be stupid, and two, they could still arrest you if they found you out in the woods pointing at stars with your DVD player laser.
The enemies of Democracy are
Did the person intend to cause the helicopter to crash? Maybe yes, maybe no. I will bet that he/she thought they could do this and get away with doing this with no one else being the wiser. I'll bet that they were shocked as heck when they got busted.
Would you shoot a rifle at an aircraft, just to see what would happen if you hit it? What would your defense be? I didn't intend to kill the pilot, break a window, take out an engine, cause a fire? I wondered what would happen? I wondered if I could hit an aircraft a mile away, moving at a high rate of speed with my rifle? Again, does the intent matter? As long as it can be shown that intent to fire was made - the consequences fall upon the shooter.
For some things, why you did something inherently stupid isn't as important as the fact that you did it. This person knew the laser is bright - or else he would have looked at the beam directly just to see how bright it really is. He was unwilling to risk his eyesight; but was more than happy to experiment with someone else's.
20 years is a good start. Time to reflect on past mistakes, and serve as a warning to others who think this kind of thing is 'cool'.
Or, to put it another way: The political system should be accountable and responsive to the people, because that greatly reduces the temptation to extremism.
I am not a crackpot.
500 feet != 1/4 mile. Even putting the ~1/4 mile isn't accurate IMO. You've more than doubled the distance they would be using the laser. Seems it would be quite a bit easier at 1/10 mile to be accurate and steady but I've never tried it.
Not an expert, but in most populated areas of the US, is there not flight rules for the minimum altitude above ground, set at like 1000 feet in many areas and up to 2000 feet or higher in congested urban localtions?
Seems like the choper pilot may have been breaking the law. . .
Marijuana "addiction" is more like sex "addiction", or potato chips "addiction". Sure, there are no withdrawal symptoms, but that doesn't stop people from their compulsive behavior.
I know plenty of people who had to go to group therapy in order to stop smoking up compulsively. There is more to compulsive behavior than withdrawal symptoms.
As for me, I used to smoke occasionally as well, and quit cold turkey when I got bored of it. I've never had a craving either, but I've seen its effects on others. You are definitely understating it.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
"Part of the problem is that Laws have become so stict that it prevents exersizing justice."
Which crystal ball did you use to see the penalty these people are actually going to get?
Here's a deal for you: Mail me $20. After you do, I will mail you back up to $1 million. I eagerly await your reply.
Or yet another way: if the government isn't accountable at all, extremism is justifiable. That's how the U.S. got founded in the first place.
But there's a big caveat: everything that pisses you off isn't proof that the government isn't accountable. I've heard people cite insecticide bans, stoplight cameras, and high taxes (or rather, more taxes than the person likes; taxes in the U.S. are actually pretty low) as proof that the government is off the rails, in the hands of an evil cabal, and that armed insurrection is the only solution. None of these comes close. And noisy police helicopters, while obnoxious, don't either.
This would be a great way to silence activists and critics of governmental administration. Just have a chopper pilot say he was hit by a green laser, send cops to the activist's house, plant a green laser there, and BINGO, activist goes to prison for twenty years and is bankrupted by a 1/4-million-dollar fine. Everybody wins! Well, okay, not everybody.
This sig, aah-ah, is comin' like a ghost-sig...
Probably not able to do that. The FAR part 91.119 states:
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
The only way to defeat the serpent is to turn it against its own tail.
The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
The penalty is so stiff because when the bill to make it a crime was introduced the terrorism card was played. They claimed terrorists would use lasers to interfere with commercial traffic. So the penalty is the result of an over zealous congress that once again gave in to fear mongering over terrorism.
The FAA may "go after aircraft that fly too low", but note that FAR 91.119 defines what 'too low' is, and helicopters are basically exempt.
FAR 91.119(d): "Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface."
Being a "nuisance" or causing "noise" is probably not a "hazard to persons or property". Sorry, but it sounds like the gripe should be with the FAA, not the police department.
These people should be punished. Here are my problems what happened.
1) Hitting a helicopter "by accident" is roughly impossible. The laser shoots out a beam that is at most a couple of centimeters in diameter. The odds of a beat that small hitting a helicopter by accident is damn near zero. That is like closing your swatting at the air, and snapping a fly that is buzzing around your head out of the air by accident. It is bullshit. A helicopter at 500 feet is a target smaller than a few centimeters. Your chance of randomly pointing at it are roughly zero. Far more likely than an "accident" is that they pointed at the helicopter because green lasers are cool and when you have one, you want to laser everything in sight. A jury just needs to find them guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". I have a very reasonable doubt that that it was an accident (though that is up to a jury to decide in the end).
2) Every green laser comes with a warning telling you specifically NOT to point at people and vehicles. The laser doesn't even have to hit your eye directly, simply having it hit something reflective inside the cockpit is enough to blind the the pilot. Hitting the pilot in the eye is enough to cause some harm. Even if they caused no harm, it was dangerous and stupid and very well could of. Driving home drunk is also dangerous and stupid, and you will get nailed for it even if you fail to wipe out a mini-van full of children. Yes, the law really can (and should) smack you across the head for being dangerous and stupid to others.
Unless it turns out that they had some sort of malicious intent (which I doubt, they were probably just dumb), I don't think that they should face the maximum penalty, and I doubt they will. That said, they should be smacked hard enough for it to hurt to serve as a warning to others that firing high powered lasers at vehicles is a bad thing. It is lack nabbing a drunk driver. Even if they did no harm and feel bad, you still punish because it will discourage future stupidity and it will serve as warning to others that such stupidity will not be tolerated.
There are a lot of dumb federals laws on the books. The law against firing high powered lasers at vehicles is not one of them.
in the middle of the highway, but no one actually gets hurt, he shouldn't get punished?
or if a guy starts shooting his gun into an apartment complex, but no one actually gets hit, he shouldn't get punished?
that's the same thing you are saying
its reckless endangerment
it's wrong
it's punishable
by any common sense understanding
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Except this isn't a perfect laser, and while green lasers are powerfull, they are still made w/ diodes. The pinpoint at 500 feet is not the same as at 10 feet. and we are all forgetting Pythagoras!
If the heli was only 500' up,
and the people where 1/4 mile out 1 mi is 5280ft dived that by 4, or 1320 feet than the hypotenuse must be
500^2 + 1320^2 = C^2
250000 + 1742400 = c^2
c^2 = 1992400
c= sqrt of 1992400
C= 1412' so it's about 100 ft more! and if we get really crazy kids, since this is a right triangle and we know all sides, we can even find the damn angle they were at!
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
We need a "+1 -- nice sig" moderation.
20 years for a laser pointer? Here in the Old West, a guy allegedly shot down a police helicopter because it was disturbing his dog, but he was released because of "ballistics issues" with the evidence.
From the article (emphasis added):
My guess is they mean night-vision goggles, but I expect those would just have some kind of limiter that would quickly kick in to prevent bright light from going through, then once the input was back to "night" levels, resume normal function - much like a limiter works in music production.
Going on means going far
Going far means returning
if standard scumbag police procedure is pursuing people who engage in reckless endagerment, i'm quite curious as to what your definition of standard virtuous police procedure is
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Do Lasers have Large Talons?
FAR Part 91.119:
Sec. 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate
an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an
emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the
surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town,
or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of
1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of
2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above
the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In
those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to
any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the
minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the
operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the
surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply
with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by
the Administrator.
Helicopters are generally exempt from these regulations since they are used for hoisting, etc. as well as being less hazardous if power fails at low altitudes since they can autorotate (smaller chance of crashing).
--- You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad- Neal (not Cowboy) Boortz
A green laser which is quite powerful.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Red laser pointers were as 'taboo' back in the day as these green ones are, and now that the novelty has worn off noone cares if you shine them at anyone.
I have shone a green laser pointer (5mw) in my eyes and the effect was no worse than if you were to glance at the sun for half a second. A spot in my eye for a few minutes and it was gone. TFA does not state what type of a laser this was but if it was just a 5mw laser the cop was lying about being disoriented.
FURTHERMORE, right in TFA it says that he was disoriented but was able to pinpoint the exact house that the laser came from. Liar!
-Xoltri
A "routine" 500 ft helicopter patrol. Just like in Iraq, Afghanistan and most everywhere you go. Glad to see you are playing by the rules.
... I don't live in the USA and have quite a lot of it.
Ah Freedom
I agree with the senitment, but thinking about it, I don't see how they could do so without crippling our civilization. Lasers are, simply, EVERYWHERE. There are, by my count, 18 lasers just in the room I'm in (that I know of). Every DVD burner has a blue laser that can blast your retina into oblivion in a matter of moments.
Yeah, but can these lasers be used to blind aircraft pilots? (I don't actually know the answer to this.)
I have a red laser pointer keychain, but I'm pretty sure that's not terribly dangerous to pilots (though I wouldn't test it out just to see). The beam diverges noticeably just across a large room; I imagine it would be extremely diffuse at 1000 ft or more. Similarly, I doubt DVD-burner lasers are very useful at long ranges; after all, they're designed to focus on a surface less than a centimeter away. The optics probably aren't of sufficient quality to keep it focused at long ranges.
Not that I think they should, but it wouldn't be hard to simply ban lasers of a certain class and power. These powerful green handheld lasers simply aren't like the ones in your DVD player. There's lots of instances of things being illegal in one form, and not another. After all, you can buy bullets for guns, and even their components to make your own bullets: lead, brass, and gunpowder. But I'm pretty sure it's illegal for you to make your own artillery shells, even though it wouldn't be that hard to do so. And even if you have a machine shop, as many people and businesses do, it's definitely illegal for you to make your own automatic weapon, unless you have a special federal license.
I'm guessing this is why they said "500" feet and not "499" feet or less. Depending on populous/airspace this may be the legal altitude.
"You don't tug on superman's cape,
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger....."
And you don't [shine a green laser at the cops]. It doesn't rhyme but was that too hard to understand?
Twenty years may seem over the top, but if the green laser does indeed disorient a pilot, and an aircraft crashes because of it, resulting in death, then the punishment seems to be appropriate, in my opinion.
== First cross river, then insult alligator.
How could they possibly determine who did it?
The Supremes issued a 5-4 ruling back in 2005 that sentencing guidelines are not mandatory, they are advisory only. IANAL either, but here's a link from the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers:
http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/mediasources/20050113b
And just this month a 7-2 ruling in the Minbrough and Gall cases, related to crack cocaine sentencing guidelines, again they are advisory only, not mandatory. Here's a link from the LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-sentencing16dec16,0,1084405.story?coll=la-opinion-center
We had this guy on our ship. A real "shipwreck" if there ever was one. He got the idea to paint the officer of the deck on the ship next to us with his laser pointer. Said officer of the deck was wearing his summer whites, and this brilliant red dot blooms on his chest. It was amazing! The OOD dropped to the deck, drew his side arm and began shouting "SNIPER ON THE PIER! SNIPER ON THE PIER!" Their ship went to security alert, the security teams were deployed and began fanning out on the ship and the pier, and then OUR ship went to security alert. By the time it all got sorted out, Seaman Shipwreck had been hauled off to the brig and later had himself the Big Chicken Dinner (Bad Conduct Discharge). So yeah, firing lasers at official vehicles, ships or planes is a good way to earn yourself a Darwin Award, either by measure of return fire or being put in prison long enough for it to no longer matter.
[End Of Line]
If you have a green laser and you can't see the beam at night, you were probably robbed. Or you got a cheap one that pretends to be a real green laser pointer. The good ones have a beam that is almost visible in low lighting - think of a room with the shades pulled down. At night you can clearly see the beam.
They are extremely bright. And do wonders to night vision.
obviously you and many
if law enforcement used this logic, then half the population would be in prison right now. Our country already has one of the highest per capita incarceration percentages, right behind Russia and China.
usually our criminal justice system manages to not be horrendous, but it's far from acceptable and your ignorance of how laws are enforced contributes to that problem.
if the general public knew what law enforcement has become, they could not handle it
Thank you Dave Raggett
"...it would have been impossible to miss if that was anywhere near them."
They didn't miss.
Your argument seems to presume they didn't start lying to cover their asses. You also need to look at picture s s s s of a police helicopters. Note the clear windows in the floor.
So? You don't like the values and priorities of the community you live in? Find, or make, a better community.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
They didn't miss.
I meant "miss the presence of", not "miss with the laser". You can't fail to notice a helicopter hovering 500 feet above you or anywhere in the immediate area. Since the cops had to actually make an effort to find out who was shining the light at them rather than pointing straight down, I'm taking these things to mean the helicopter was a good distance distance away.
Your argument seems to presume they didn't start lying to cover their asses.
Well they may have, but it's a pretty plausible story -- they were jacking around with a laser, and happened to hit a helicopter some distance away. If it was right above them and they shone it through the floor, they'd have to pretty much be complete idiots to think they wouldn't be caught easily. And them being thoughtless and irresponsible just makes more sense than them being malicious and retarded.
The enemies of Democracy are
If you RTFA, you'll notice there's no mention of a power-hungry officer, or that this couple was acting in some form of civil disobedience. They were fucking around with a laser, endangering someone's life.
Yo mama so fake, she failed the Turing Test.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Yes. Yes it does. Succinctly and correctly. Thank you. For everyone else who wants to buck up and "fight the man", get a friggin' grip. Please.
Oh, for the days when sig's didn't have to be cute...hey, wait a sec.
Not so hard to believe. It's not the random chance of a roving laser beam accidentally falling "just right" on the chopper. Anybody trying to do this will easily use the visual feedback from the fine but very visible beam of light to aim and adjust it to shine on the target - especially a slow and predictably moving target like a helicopter. The human eye-brain system is great at this sort of thing. WW-II fighter pilots effectively used tracer fire to correct their aim and bring down rapidly maneuvering foes. Searchlight operators on the ground were able to illuminate individual planes flying at 10,000 - 20,000 feet while the pilots tried to maneuver out of the beam.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain. --Friederich Schiller
Prank or civil disobedience, the way I see it is:
Guy roams elephants through people's yards, complains when someone leaves caltrops.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
i think the divergence rate of a standard (first basic mode) laser beam is the reciprocal of its minimum width
so it spreads more slowly than an incoherent beam. that is, less than 1/(square of dist)
isnt physics cool
If you're planning on using one of these things for a star party, just call up the FAA (1-800-WX-BRIEF will get you to somebody who can either file the NOTAM for you or get you the right phone number for your area). I can't believe these things are sold without instructions on how to file NOTAMs.
High powered hand held lasers are available. See Wicked Lasers for some examples.
The performance chart at the bottom of the page will give you an idea of the power that some hand held lasers have. Links in their chart provide demonstrations.
No, we don't work for them, however do own some that are used for research purposes. Our 300mW laser laser will do more than just bind you. We treat it like a loaded gun, not a toy. Laser Safety is critical.
Is there something fundamentally pathetic about police helicopter pilots eyes that render them susceptible to lasers? After all, its totally fine for the police to shine lasers at moving vehicles all they want, so apparently the general, car driving public are immune to laser light. Why are they hiring pilots with such easily testable eye defects.
Your "freedoms" usually end when you no longer have the ability to enforce them. The rule of thumb is that your freedoms disappear when the other side has more/better weapons than you. Look at history. When was the last time anyone was ever praised by the national media for resisting an unlawful law enforcement action? I assure you, judges rule the government acted illegally on a variety of issues on a daily basis in this country. And its never mentioned.
2 years from now when these B.S. charges are dropped and these kids are $50,000 in debt with no job and a repossessed housebecause they didn't have the $10,000 to put up for the bail, where will they be? Well, they'll most likely be $50,000 in debt with no job and a repossessed house, and little legal recourse. See sovereign immunity.
An interesting point about the altitude. It may even be plausible to determine the helicopters altitude via the lasers strength and angle of the beam. It may not get the couple off the hook, but it would at least catch and punish a rogue pilot endangering more lives and infrastructure than a laser could have cost. Pilots who think they can operate above the law are a much greater menace to society imho.
Adding a comment does not clear your mods if you post as Anonymous Coward.
Infuriate left and right
(3) "Avigation easements are required only when the noise, vibration, fumes, fuel particles and inconvenience caused by low-flying aircraft interfere with the use and enjoyment of the underlying property to the extent it amounts to a taking. [Citations.]"http://ahrc.com/old/HOAorg/News/keyreports/kr_avigation.html Okay so at 10:55pm it is dark. Helicopters can be heard but maybe not seen. So, I am out using my laser pointer to highlight the astronomical sites and the excessive vibration must have caused the pointer to be inadvertently jostled from my grip and at that point struck the pilot. I am countersuing the Sherriff's department because they flew in the airspace above my home at such a low altitude so as to interfere with my enjoyment of the stars and these charges have proven to be a huge inconvenience. Oh yeah, that's good. Get a sympathetic jury, a decent lawyer and the accused might make out very well.
"skate the web"
Use an IR laser and aim to blind them.
I live in the town in question, born and raised. Because of that, I can say a couple of things:
a) The helicopters are not silent. I've spent many a night trying to get to sleep while they're circling a crime scene over a mile away. I swear the cops like the helicopter to be loud just to let the perps know they're up there. And just when you think they've gone because blissful silence has returned, there's the copter again. It's quite annoying.
b) People here are not bright. Just look around at all the Hummers on the road, heh. Thinking of the consequences of ones actions is not high on the educational check list here. So I wouldn't be suprised if they just didn't think that shining a laser into the sky while the copter was circling would be an issue. I also wouldn't be suprised if they did it because the copter was annoying them and are now trying to cover their rears. Covering ones' rear instead of fessing up is a pretty common trait here too. Even our DA practices it on a regular basis.
I think it is certain that high-powered consumer lasers will be made illegal for private use - so that only "law" enforcement and soldiers can blind their targets. Hurray for non-lethal weapons!
But those morons are properly punished for attacking a helicopter.
http://lynxcache.com/FBI_zaps_couple_for_shining_laser_at_cop_helicopter_NetworkWorld_com_Community.html
There was a similar episode of CSI: Miami from last season. A guy flashed a green laser from his apartment balcony at the pilot of a small jet causing it to crash. It was because he was tired of the air traffic noise disturbing him. I wonder if this show was an influence.
-- Alex
Do courts in the US admit "investigation experiments" as evidence? Whi not give the actual green laser discovered in the house to a person and instruct him to point it at the suspect (with his consent) as steady as he can from a given distance. You can also have the suspect perform some task that requres visual orientation all the time. If he doesn't fail at the task and shows no external signs of eye pain, dismiss pilot's claims.
17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
Police aircraft don't.
The pump source in the common green laser is an IR diode, but it's illuminating a crystal that actually creates the beam. The beam is then sent through another, different kind of crystal to convert it into visible green light. The output from one of the green units is generally a lot higher quality than that from a diode laser, which produce a highly elliptical beam.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
I think it's pretty certain the one actually holding the laser would get a higher sentence. But unless the other person tackled him when she/he saw him going for the copter... I'd say there's a lot of guilt and ultra-poor judgement to go around there.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
rant:
As for it being illegal to point in the sky, so much for the atmosphere being public and free. Safety is a lame excuse, flying isn't safe and never will be(even without the 20 to 30 year old (or more) junk in many of those cockpits). You take a risk every time you go up and are at the mercy of those on the ground when you do, for it is over them you fly(egotism?) and eventually have to come back too(sometimes in a variety of ways)(wing and a prayer). If you don't like the risks drive like the rest of us. Maybe if we don't like you polluting(in various ways) our space you might be coming down faster(risk increase).(might be a better way to handle the problem) I digress, the federal crap is overkill to horrific proportions, government as usual. Someday our modern congress/president/courts/government(bureaucracy) will do something right, but I won't hold my breath for it, not with lobbyists holding the purse strings. And I sure won't depend on it to follow the constitution.In Soviet Amerika, policemen fire 'potentially dangerous lasers' at YOU.
"I decided I could write something better than everything out there in two weeks. And I was right." - Linus Torvalds
If the couple really wanted to harm the pilot they would not have done it from their home.
MacGuyver had one these. He would be unstoppable, the possibilities are endless...
I can attest to the fact that you can temporarily blind a dog at 200m with a high powered laser. Ask anyone who's been deployed as an infantryman and they'll tell you a story of the time they or their buddy kept dogs away from their position by lasing them with their PEQ-2.
Granted, normal laser pointers aren't as powerful, but it is certainly possible. If the beam was distorted in some way by the cockpit glass I could even see doing actual retinal damage.
But likely some of the other posters are right, and the guy was merely annoyed and tried to throw the book at the people. That doesn't mean it isn't a plausable thing.
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
They could have used the laser for a better purpose. Like popping an entire house's worth of popcorn.
Pain I'm skeptical of too, and I bow to your superior experience in this regard, but even temporarily dazzling a pilot over a city is serious.
Having had afterimages for several minutes after being exposed to a specular reflection of a 5mW green laser in office-lit conditions (reflected from a whiteboard), I can sympathize.
It doesn't say the power of the beam - you can quite easily pick up green laser pointers on eBay that are advertised as 100mW or more (here in the UK, at least). Also, the copter is likely to be quite low, and you'd only want to try this at night so you could see the dot. The pilot's pupils would be dilated due to the darkness, so I can imagine quite a severe dazzling effect.
Sean Ellis
Follow OfQuack's antics on Twitter.
"Manslaughter is not a specific intent crime and does not require an intent to cause a particular result. In fact, if the defendant intends to kill, he is guilty of murder, not manslaughter. Accordingly, because manslaughter does not require the specific intent to kill, there can be no attempted manslaughter." WA case law
I don't entirely doubt that your state's judicial system may be less intelligent than mine, but if you could back up your assertions with some evidence it would certainly help convince me .
So, when will we see green laser upgrade in GTA?
Seriously overblown. cop should STFU and stop whining over something so stupid.
This is a rotary wing craft, not a fixed wing. He can fly as low as is safe.
I am a pilot, and I have had my cockpit illuminated by ground-based lasers before, and it is NOT a fun thing. People think it's goddamn funny at the time, but it really isn't at all. If you blind a pilot, resulting in a fatal crash, there is nothing funny about it.
I once owned a Sony DSC-V3 digital camera. One of the most inconvenient "features" of this camera was that it illuminated your subject with a red LASER (not LED, true LASER spread through holographic diffraction grating, you could see the speckle interference...). Focusing with this LASER gimmick annoyed my subjects and didn't worked particularly well so I turned it off 90% of the time only to find that Sony autofocus without this gimmick was even less accurate. The laser and poor autofocus was only one of the unfortunate features of this camera. The "RAW" mode was encrypted and locked to Sony software, there was no way to override Sony's bias towards small apertures in program mode, the Infrared mode was arbitrarily hard-coded to a specific program mode, and the firmware was closed and not upgradable. Quality control wasn't particularly good, I think the zeiss lens must've been assembled in a stone quarry instead of a clean room. I happily upgraded this and told myself to never again fall for Sony's proprietary gimmicks.
;-)
Blue-Ray? Sound's cool!
A couple Green lasers could really change some police chases. /maybe?
Since the pinpoint at 500 feet is as small as the pinpoint at 10 feet, the number of photons going out at the source is about the same as the number hitting the pinpoint, so 500 feet or 20 feet or 1 foot is exactly the same bloody thing.
No it's freaking NOT, I wish slashdot actually had geeks around. A typical consumer pointer has a beam divergence of at LEAST 2mrad (milliradians) which means the beam spreads by 1mm for every meter traveled or 10cm for every 1km.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
If something that can be had by the general public is dangerous if misused, it only makes sense to require a license for them. You know, like cars, ham radios, and guns. If they had been properly informed as to the consequences of shining the laser into the sky, I doubt this would have happened unless there was some kind of malicious intent.
Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
How about 'disturbing the peace'? Those helicopters shouldn't be flying around and making noise at 500 feet after 9pm anyhow.
IMHO, the pilot didn't get enough of what he deserved.
It isn't new physics. It is called geometry. If you fire a gun at a target that is 5cm big at point blank range, you will hit it. If on the other hand you fire at a target that is 5cm big that is 5 miles away (assuming the bullet fire perfectly straight and didn't drop) you would miss. That is because even the slightest deflection results in missing. The difference between being a degree off when you are at point blank range, and when you are a mile off is massive. Do you want me to do the calculation for you?
yes but did the pointer remeber to check his optics?
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
"pain and discomfort in his eyes for a couple of hours"
"jail for up to 20 years and earn them a $250,000 fine"
yeah. that seems proportional...
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Good point. I do wonder, though, if they would grandfather old lasers like they did with assault weapons. The market for "preban" lasers would be impressive. And that reminds me, I wonder what the blowback from the gun community would be, considering the popularity of laser sights. Though they only use green laser sights in movies.
The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
A green laser pointer isn't for you, dumbass. It's so you can point out objects of interest to people that would not otherwise be able to find them easily. It works because you can see the beam with your eye leading to the object.
I forgot all about that Post Anonymously checkbox. No doubt you are right. I wonder if that counts as a loophole. I don't see how it could recognize you if you deleted your cookies.
Infuriate left and right
It's kinda ridiculous that they sell laser pens that can get you into that kind of trouble. I almost got arrested when i was like 20 because me and my GF were driving and playing with a laser pen at night, shining it at reflective surfaces. Another driver followed us and called the cops. I was astounded when they showed up and made me destroy the device or else they were going to arrest me. It was like "wtf. kids can buy this stuff for $4 at walgreens. you going to arrest them too?"
Except that I'm not talking about regulation altitudes, I'm talking about noise complaints.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny