Slashdot Mirror
Is Sony Turning Its Back On CD-Rs?
slashdoter asks: "For Christmas my mother got a 5 DVD/CD changer from Sony (model DVP-C660). I hooked it up for her and we both where impressed by the picture and sound quality, anyway for the last year or so I have been using Napster to make CD's of her record collection. Today she put in one of the burned CD's and it would not play. After reading the manual I found the among a list of unsupported formats there was 'CD-R', which really shocked me. Every device in my house playas CD-R's, and I could see this if it was a first generation CD player but the CD-R standard has been out longer than the DVD standard. Is the unit defective or is Sony up to something?" Is there a reason why Sony would make it's DVD player deliberately incompatible with CD-R's which, at first glance, doesn't make much sense.
A lot of DVD players don't support CD-R discs. Don't ask me why it's so; but I don't think it has anything to do with "piracy prevention," it's more by-product of the way the laser picks up data from the discs on DVD players.
My Pioneer DV-606D doesn't support CD-Rs either, for what it's worth.
I've actually been wanting a list of players that DO support CD-Rs for a while now. (Besides playing audio CDs, it's useful for VCDs.)
Breakfast served all day!
I really don't see what is surprising here. This is a DVD changer that also happens to play CD's. 90% of DVD players, due to the makeup of the laser, can't play CD-Rs. Only players from Pioneer, Apex, and a couple other companies can. I guess you should have checked the stats on the player first.
Sony obviously wouldn't want people to be able to play CD-R, because they could be ilegal copies. Remeber that Sony doesn't just make hardware, they also own a large record company
Check out http://www.vcdhelp.com for a list of DVD players that can read CD-Rs.
I can't say for sure why they would do this. I'd imagine it was some bean counter cost thing. From what I understand CD-R discs return only a 1/10th of the laser light that a regular CD does. Therefore they would need more sensitive electronics. Of course, a DVD disc might be the same way (returning a smaller portion of the laser light as compared to a CD disc) which would moot my whole theory. But I'd still consider it a cost thing. Besides, the purpose of Sony is to make money - not do the 'right' thing (support every type of disc known to man).
I've had this DVD player for over a year, and I though (I remember hearing this somewhere) that the DVD-reader (which can also read CD's) cannot support the burn marks of a CD-R. Dont know if that's accurate but you aren't alone.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
--
Give a man a match, you keep him warm for an evening.
Give a man a match, you keep him warm for an evening.
Light him on fire, he's warm for the rest of his life
Especially considering the Raite and APEX DVD/MP3 DVD players. I have a Raite model (bought at Fry's, Sunnyvale) that plays my DVDs, plain olde CDs and burned CDs (with MP3s or Audio tracks, no difference) just fine and dandy.
Perhaps it is an issue with the laser pickup on the DVD player? I don't know the technology to that depth, but perhaps some EE could enlighten (please no pun) us....
Cartman: because they're assholes
Me: Oh, yeah that makes sence
Seriously sony have continuously shown they have no interest whatsoever in preserving "fair use" the thinkoholics at sony go.. what are CD-R used for only for pirating music let's not make it work.
The idea is that "What you got on them there CD-R's anyway? Prolly pirated music I'd bet..."
Expect more of this where that came from. My Apex doesn't play mp3 CD's like my roomate's does, it's pretty much pointless asking why. You know why...
Fist Prost
"We're talking about a planet of helpdesks."
Fist Prost
"We're talking about a planet of helpdesks."
-Jaron Lanier
Will they still produce normal CDRs? I find them very reliable, up there with memorex, and TDK, as opposed to some that have random holes in them
Can you say "Piracy Prevention"? Thats what its all about. Kevin
I see some people saying many DVD drives don't play CD-R's, but for what it's worth, I have what Windows identifies as a "Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1202" that not only reads CD-R, but even CD-RW with no trouble. I got it dirt cheap a year and a half ago, before I had a CD burner at all. I wasn't expecting CD-RW to work, that was a nice surprise, but I would have been disappointed if CD-R hadn't.
The laser to read DVD's is a different wavelength than the laser needed to read CD-R format. Some DVD's specifically include dual lasers, others do not.
I have several musician friends who release a lot of material on CD-R. I'd think that by this point every CD reader should be able to read CD-Rs - there are plenty of legitimate uses, and I'd be real surprised if even Sony would make a decision to stop supporting them. This must just be some funky design flaw with this model's laser.
\subject
And explain the problem politely, but loudly enough for everyone else in line to hear.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
1© Reading a CD-R requires one wavelength of laser light©
2© Reading a DVD requires a different wavelength©
3© Sony gets lazy/tries to cut costs and uses a read laser that can't see CD-Rs ¥maybe©
666© Insert SONY/RIAA/MPAA-cracks-down-on-piracy conspiracy theories in between any of the above steps©
-the wunderhorn
Karma: Bored. (Thinking about resurrecting the "Anyone else is an imposter" joke.)
I'm as big a fan of a conspiracy theory as anybody, but I'm afraid that the root of this problem is in the type of laser used. When the first prototype DVD devices started appearing on the market, I was a lab monkey at Intel, and we noticed the same problems. The issue was eventually resolved, but it made the device $5-20 more expensive. Most likely, Sony has done a market survey and determined that CD-R is not something that is worth adding that much to the cost of the device.
If you want a DVD player that can handle CDr's then you should have bought one with DUAL lasers. Sony does in fact make them, Pioneer makes them, you just have to look (and probably pay a bit more). If you're that concerned about compatibility, then take some various formats of CDr, VCD, ETC with you to your local big box and see what works BEFORE buying. Odds are good that more money was spent on the changer part of the box than the laser part. -info
Broadcasting LIVE from a Bonus Room Over the Gara
Return it to the place where she got it, and exchange it for a model that has the functions you want. I can't believe an issue like this made it to "Ask Slashdot" for a solution. She really should have checked the specifications of the DVD player before getting it if she's a CD-R user.
I had the same problem with my Sony DVP-S300. I couldn't get it to play my CDR's. A friend enlightened me: Use High Quality media ONLY. Cheap CDR's (the ones with blue-green tint) will not play in Sony DVD players. However, higher quality CDRs, the ones with only a very slight tint (and therefore a higher reflectivity) will play in sony DVD players. I proved this empirically.
"I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
Is there a work around for this problem?
I haven't been keeping up with the goings on in the industry, but Sony probably acquired a music or some other media company (or made a deal with one), and is using this as some sort of feeble way to discourage bootlegging.
So its not at all a conspiracy by Sony to protect its music industry. Especially considering the fact that Sony makes several MP3 players.
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
Many CD-Rs are "invisible" to DVD players' lasers. The specs should mention whether they can handle CD-R(W)s. Here's a link to a part of a DVD FAQ with a little more info. http://www.dvdcity.com/officialfaq.html#2.4.3 Andy
I am afraid I just assumed that it would play the CD-R(W) formats.(I had bought it to replace the 10 year old Yamaha 5 CD changer that played damn near anything shiny and flat I could jam into it) It never mentioned the lack of support for these formats on the box. It wasn't until I RTFM that I saw the extensive list of unsupported formats.
Needless to say, this one is now earmarked as the spare/bedroom unit and the plans for its replacement are in progress.
I tried Winoncd 3.8 MusicAlbum, it stores 7 hours of music on a normal 650 mb cd. I was real excited but when i popped it into my PS2, expecting it to work, I got a screen saying use Ps1/PS2 disc. Now will this lack of support for non-original DVDs prevent them from playing homemade DVD (non-css) once they become popular. It will work with burnt music (normal 1 hour stuff) but not the DVD, and it uses only one laser, so it must not be a laser problem, simply Sony being basterds.
Sony is a large record company (and a movie company, too, I think; someone correct me if I'm wrong). Many large record companies are against filesharing technologies (hence the push for copy-protected hard drives). This is just the next logical step in killing off all possible support for copying music, movies, and all other copyrighted content (which is what the MPAA is trying to do). What surprises me, though, is that they waited this long to do something.
If you don't believe me, look at what they did with the Playstation and Playstation 2s. You have to buy a mod chip or use the swap trick because PSX discs have 0s written in the blocks which CDR and CDRW drives write checksums to.
That obviously increases cost and I guess could impact reliability. AFAIK Sony has never made a player that plays CD-R. Other brands are in that boat too. On the other hand all Pioneer players do, since they have the aforementioned double laser pickup.
To sum it up, it's mainly an engineering decision.
Due to the way that CD-Rs place pits on the CD-R, the laser that reads the data on the CD-R has to be the same wavelength as a standard infrared laser that CD players use.
"Silver" CDs will work with the Red laser that DVD players use, since, while the red laser breaks the spec, the pits on CDs pressed from glass masters are more tolerant of the laser's wavelength.
The DVD players that do work with CD-Rs have to have some extra electronics to work with CD-Rs. Basically, these DVDs have two lasers: one for DVD media, and one for CD and CD-R media.
Anyway, I think I will go to Kuro5hin now.
- Sam
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
Sony also sells records (Epic). Any lengths Sony takes in its home electronics to restrict your ability to copy or to play copies wouldn't surprise me in the least. To my knowledge, Sony is the only company in both the recording and home electronics markets.
I like to play children's songs in minor keys.
"We're all sons of bitches now." --J. Robert Oppenheimer
The Sony DVP-S3000 and DVP-S7000 were the only two players which featured two separate lasers for playback of DVDs and CDs. Other players accomplished the task of playing Audio CDs by using a lens to refocus the single beam. This lens wasn't able to refocus onto CD-R media. There were even reports of CD-R discs getting damaged by placing them in first generation DVD players, although I've never personally seen it happen.
If Sony is trying to cut costs, they may have gone to the same type of cheap single-laser-based optics that prevented all non-Sony first-generation DVD players from playing recordable media.
From DVD demystified FAQ, "The problem is that CD-Rs (Orange Book Part II) are 'invisible' to DVD laser wavelength because the dye used in CD-Rs doesn't reflect the beam."
See the section about DVD and CDR.
i've been shopping for a DVD player that can play CDs and MP3 CDs, in order to partially replace my aging stereo, and have found that most, if not all the DVD/CD players i've seen will not play (or won't officially support) CDR discs. the only ones that say they will are those that also play MP3 CDs (and it makes sense, as there aren't very many pressed MP3 CDs out there)
i doubt it's a sony (or pioneer, or panasonic, or AIWA) thing. I suspect it's the lasers the DVD players use. those that read CDR may have an additional laser, or else have a different kind than Joe DVD. they also have the tendency to play VCDs, which makes me think it's more than just an anti-piracy thing.
anyhoo, my 2 cents, from having spent many hours researching a good combo DVD player (i bought a sony, and i'm returning it for an Apex 703 - 3 disc changer, upgradeable firmware, plus MP3 playback)
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
DVD lasers can't pick up CD-R data. You need a dual-laser pickup for that. Not many have this feature (my Pioneer and my Sampo can, however). A lot of newer drives using DVD-ROM internally will be able to, but don't expect this to be a feature of the player unless specifically stated. As for CD-RW and regular CDs, they respond to the DVD light much better so some single-laser pickups can read it.
Read the box before buying the player. If it doesn't explicitly support CD-R, don't trust it.
æeee!
I've successfully used CDRWs many times on my Sony DVD Player... not the same model, but Sony DVD nonetheless.
________________________________
________________________________
"I'm the King of the Trolls!"
Of all the manufacturers, I've come across Sony CD players are the fussiest about CD-Rs. Curiously the most compatible player I have is a 10 year old Panasonic Portable SL-NP1A, which has travelled around the world, and, for the last 6 years of it's life has been living in my bathroom!
My UID is prime!
A buddy of mine got himself a dvd player for christmas (JVC, maybe, can't remember.) The store salesman said that it didn't play CD-Rs, and when he read the manual, it also said CD-Rs were unsupported. However, just out of curiosity, he popped an audio CD-R in the dvd player, and to his surprise, it played.
I suspect that you'll see a lot of dvd players that say they don't support CD-Rs just because it's sort of a fikle media - the quality and playability of the CD may often depend on the quality of writable disc and the manufacturer of the CD burner. Due to such factors, dvd player manufacturers probably don't want to hear about problems relating to CD-Rs, and have to worry about feilding technical support for issues dealing with CD-Rs.
-kidlinux.
Philips, on the other hand, sold its record company (forgot which one it was) when it started producing CD-Writers.
Monkey sense
I picked up a 5 disc DVD/CD/VCD Sony a little over a year ago, and it plays CD-R's I make just fine,
both audio cd's and VCD's.
I haven't tried an mp3 CD-R though, and I really wouldn't expect it to work unless I got a player that specifically mentions mp3s, even though the VCD format is mpeg-1 (so the thing does have an mpeg decoder of some type).
See the DVD FAQ. The shiny stuff on CD-R's isn't so reflective at the frequency that DVD lasers use.
Or the optical equivalent of it. CDs rely on distinguishing between a reflection and not-a-reflection of the laser light. There are many dBs between the two levels on pressed CDs. On burnt CDs the 'mirror' ain't as shiny, and the dull bit, ain't as dull.
Try different brands of CD-R, or ones burnt on different recorders, perhaps.
I wouldn't put it down to malice ab initio.
FatPhil
-- Real Men Don't Use Porn. -- Morality In Media Billboards
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
My DVP-C600D(which sounds like an older model than yours), plays CD-R just fine. Had to bring in a VCD, and play that on every machine in the store, till i found the one that would play it. I originally bought a lower end sony, and it wouldn't play cd-r, so i had to return it, and get the 5 cd/dvd changer, similar to yours.
I play in a regional niche folk music band. We sell hundreds of CDs and prefer to use CD-Rs since we can make small runs and replace tracks on future runs if we wish. I'd be ticked (and legally injured) if Sony is using their clout in the CD player industry to deliberatly block CD-Rs in order to protect their "corporate music" industry. Now I'm sure there are more legal hurdles than that, but sounds like its well on the way to an anti-trust suit.
Ob Fact I do believe it is most likely a technical laser issue and not a corporate decision. Just getting the issue raised.
Ob Anarchy Note Yes, you can get my music for free (that which I am legally allowed to give away anyway, most of our songs are not OpenLyrics tm). http://www.mp3.com/ozark. Don't go there and rack up our dollars, just go if you want to listen.
Oh and the Apex DVD players are great. The AD660 can read an MPEG 1 or MPEG2 burned straight to a CD-R. No need to format the file as a VCD.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
They are RIAA members probably MPAA as well.
Phillips AIWA Pioneer and others will, only newer ones will decode an MP3.
Rick B.
There is no conspiracy, if you want to buy a DVD player that supports CDs, YOU READ THE BOX FIRST. It wasn't a bean counter's decision. It's a question of whether or not the design specs required support for CDR or not. This one didn't, so they didn't put the extra laser in it to read the CDR.
Very few DVD players support CDRs. Sony didn't remove a feature that wasn't even there in the first place.
That's why the Apex was so compelling (besides, of course, the region code and macrovision hack). The Apex was a good, cheap DVD player that could play CDRs. Apex had to put support for both the DVD laser and the CDr laser (probably because supporting MP3 without supporting CDR would have seriously limited its market appeal)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have a Sony CD player that plays CDRs I record just fine...kinda blows anti piracy out of the water as the motive.
It just might be that is cheaper to make without cd-r support therefore they decided to make more than one model one that plays cd-r and one that does not.
Flipping through my most recent Crutchfields catalog I noticed that a few DVDs claim to read CD-R or CD-RW, but most don't mention it. My $.02 is that they don't care about copying enough to engineer specifically either way. Whether a unit can read CD-Rs is probably merely an artifact of the laser mechanism.
----------- Sig what?
I was recently shopping for a home DVD player and I found many that did not support CDR/RW. The first one I purchased, the Samsung DVD-711 support CDR/RW AND MP3. This was extremly cool! The unit itself looks awesome, and the remote is one of the coolest I've seen, but as it was rumored to do, it skipped a couple times only after about 3 days of movie playing.
There was no way I was going to lay down $200 for a skipping DVD player. I then bought the Pioneer DV333 which had great reviews. And while the remote is terrible/ugly and the unit itself is not too pretty, it plays like a champ and has had absolutly no problems with skipping. It also supports CDR/W.
If I had my choice I take the looks and remote of the Samsung unit and combine them with the Pioneer engineering for my perfect DVD player. But for now I'll take the good quality of my Pioneer and see what happens in the future. I know that if I was an electronics company, I would support CDR/RW/DVD as I know myself along with a TON others look for that in a player.
--
Scott Miga
suprax@linux.com
Here ya go, this is a very helpful list for anyone considering purchasing a DVD player and is a fan of VCDs and SVCDs or playing CD-Rs for whatever reason:
Searchable database
Or
Complete List
disc-chord
Seems regular CDs and CD-RWs work because the silver color reflects the red laser light better than blue or green. I have a few greyish-sliver CD-Rs that came with one of those funny packs of different colored CD-Rs; I wonder of those will work...
Apex makes a DVD player that not only plays CD-R's, but also has built in MP3 support: ie, burn a bunch of mp3s to a cdr NOT in CD format and the player will recognize this and will play the mp3s with a nice little UI to go with it. Also plays video cds. Its one of the most impressive dvd players i've ever seen
Yeah they're different kinds of lasers and all that...then WHY can you go to Wal-Mart and pick up a DvD for less than $100 that DOES play CD-R's?
I'd reccomend, like most others here that you take it back, call, and write(dead tree letter that is) Sony Customer Services and let them know you'll be spending that money on a competitor that can deliver the features you want, even if it means waiting a month or three for them to catch up.
And don't forget to write up a product review in your newsgroups (Remember that Deja is the learn-before-you-buy place now) and Warn other potential buyers that there is anti-fair-use technology (or rather a lack of...nevermind) on this unit.
My Sony 5-Disc DVD changer plays my CDRs... I have had a few that it didn't recognize, but on the whole it works fine. Try using a better quality CDR media....
The world won't end in darkness, it'll end in family fun, with Coca-cola clouds behind a Big Mac sun.
I recently converted one of my old computer graphics demo reels to VideoCD (mpeg) format so that I could watch them on my Sony DVD player.
After some experimenting, all of the (admittedly less than high quality) CD-R disks I tried could not be read by the player - but CD-RW disks could be. So you might get better results with these disks if you have access to a CD-RW capable burner.
As mentioned here, it's most likely because of the tint of the disks - the underside of CD-RWs are "cleaner" and look a lot like regular CDs.
- Chris.
My Sony DVD player reads CD-RWs, but not CD-Rs (I tried Sony CD-Rs). I used a Verbatim CD-RW and wrote a 10x, no problems. I've also heard that Princo White Surface CD-Rs will work in the Sony DVD players. You can buy them here:
http://www.caloptic.com/wispcdr.html
My S7000 plays cd-r just fine. I just watched gladiator on vcd last night. And I play burned audio cds on it all the time. So if sony is doing this they weren't before.
Sony is definately turning its back on the CDR crowd. My friend got a new sony DVD player for christmas and it wouldnt play VCDs burnt to CDR media. The old Sony DVD player that his new one replaced DID play CDR media. So now all the home videos I had converted to VCD and burnt to CDR for him are now obsolete (at this time, the model numbers escape me). At the $35 per disk I charged him, he is really pissed, and I feel bad about all this too. And no, he cant switch back to his old one because it wont work with his new Home Theater system.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
My toshiba dvd player doesn't work with cd-r's either.
every single reply to this post has said the same thing: "i think it's the laser" or "the laser has something to do with it." do you people not bother to read the other comments before you post? if there have been 10 comments saying "i think it has something to do with the laser," why add an 11th?
:)
think people.
anyhow, i think it has something to do with the lasers they use in DVD players.
- j
Oops.
Then why does Sony make CD-RW drives?
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
He-Ne laser --> 683 nm --> red
Ar-Ion laser --> 514 nm --> green
blue diode laser --> does not exist
Blude diode lasers are in development, but have not quite reached the stage where they are reliable/cheap/mass-producable. The substrate material will eat istelf after ~5 days of use.
I doubt that laser intensity and reflectivity prevent CD-R's from being read by a DVD player. My laptop, which has a toshiba DVD drive, can read CD-R's just fine. It only has one laser. My conclusion from this observation would be that Sony is jerking you around.
-----------------
I don't know whether folks will find this surprising or not, but the PS2 CAN read CDRs. I listened to one of my collections just the other day with nay a problem from the deck. I also have a 500 series player that can read a VCD and CD from a CDRW, but can not read a CDR disk. You might want to try burning your songs to a CDRW disk and use that! Interestingly, the PS2 can NOT read CDRW....
Bryan R.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
Some DVD players have 2 lasers, some have 1. A laser capable of reading both CD's and DVD's was developed and first distributed last year or so. It works pretty well for the most part, but seems to have trouble with CD-R's. Perhaps it's all a big conspiracy because Sony uses this laser on PS2's and fears piracy :) - anyway, I think someone linked to vcdhelp.com or the like earlier. Some types of media work better than others. Most DVD players can play at least one type of CD-R media fairly regularly. The real question is whether your DVD player has VCD support (mine doesn't... boooo). Without it, CD-R support is relatively worthless (well, you can burn DVD encoded files to CD-R, but programs to do that are basically nonexistent or way to expensive... plus you can't fit much mpeg-2 video on a cd).
I remember reading somewhere that DVD players often are unable to read CD-R's, but are able to read CD-RW's just fine, due to the specifications of the laser. Also, standalone CD players usually have no trouble with CD-R's, but the fact that this is a DVD might explain the CD-R difficulty. Hopefully someone has more technical information on the issue than I do.
I currently have a Sharp. It won't play the Blue CD-R's but it will play silver CD-RW's. So I think it has much more to do with the Laser than anything else
I realize that it's /. standard to see Black Helecopters&tm everywhere, but this whole "Big Corporations are Evil and out to get us all" thing is getting old. When it's true, get the word out. But for the love of Eris, do some research!
--
If your map and the terrain differ,
trust the terrain.
That's interesting -- my Sony DVD player (current model, not an old one) sez "no disc" when I load a CDR. My Harman-Kardon CD player is perfectly happy with them.
Don't buy HK CD players, btw -- they have serious quality control problems reoported by users on the 'net, and mine acts really strange most of the time.
--------------- Murphy was an otpimist.
Just wondering...
--
As far as I knew, CD-Rs were made to fit the old CD standard, so anything that could play a CD could play a CD-R.
Now if you mean a data CD-R full of MP3s, that's entirely different.
At any rate there is extra information on a CD-R which allows writers to know what to do with them. Sony could be intentionally not playing anything that has this extra information.
(This is unrelated - fair warning.) As for the PlayStation and PlayStation 2, there is only one major reason why I don't want either: only two controller ports. I have reached the age where I don't have time to play games on my own any more. The only gaming I do is with friends, and the Nintendo 64 is the only system available that suits our needs. Lots of racing games, sports games, shoot'em'up games, etc., and four can play at once! I'll admit that Sony's game consoles are excellent pieces of equipment, and I have enjoyed a few games on the first PlayStation, but I do not like it because it is unsuitable for my gaming needs. However, since I don't do much gaming, this can be looked over...
An article like this shows how low the quality of Slashdot's journalism has gone. Making these kinds of rash accusations wihtout a solid knowledge of the facts is irresponsible.
Dude, it's an Ask Slashdot. Somebody asked what was going on, Cliff said that he wasn't sure, but that it didn't make sense. No journalistic-integrity problem here.
-Waldo
from emediapro.com
The prospect of incompatibility with CD-Recordable discs has been, until now, a serious issue undermining the introduction of DVD and its derivatives. The problem involves the change in light wavelength from 780nm infrared used in CD-R to 635/650nm red used for DVD. [For an explanation of the issue, see Hugh Bennett's guest The CD-R Writer column, "DVD: A Problem Ignored," CD-ROM Professional, Volume 9, Number 5, pp. 106-107 --ed.].
Sensing a strategic market opportunity, Sony Corporation has now announced that it will be introducing two separate optical pickups capable of reading DVD, CD-ROM, and CD-R discs. To achieve backward compatibility with existing CD-ROM and CD-R discs, the new pickups employ an ingenious two-semiconductor design that joins an existing innovative 780nm laser coupler with either a 635nm or 650nm pickup. Unlike older optical pickup designs, Sony's laser coupler integrates all the components of a 780nm pickup (except for the objective lens) into a tiny 1.8mm x 3.4mm package small enough to ride as a passenger on their DVD pickup.
--
--
Poliglut.org: 75 Million gun owners can't be wrong
I've got a sony 5-dvd changer, not sure of the model, and i'm at work right now so i can't check; prolly 2 years old... Anyway, with the dune miniseries on vcd, i first burned it at 8x, and none of the disks would read (basically didn't detect there was a disk there), i burned them again at 1x, now works perfectly. Disks were dark-blue-on-silver generic. I haven't tried with any other cdr's, rw's, music, etc, but i may try it tonight...
Walter H. Trent "Muad'Dib"
Padishah Emperor of the Known Universe, IMHO
i know that the lazer on playstations was perfectly capable of reading audio CD-Rs (althought you needed to use a mod chip to get a game on a CD-R working). After mod chips came into use they started putting in anti-mod chip measures into the newer versions of the playstation. They could have stopped modchips dead in their tracks on the newer models if they just stopped the lazer from being able to read CDRs. (some people above say its cheeper to do that, i dont know). Does any one with a playstation 2 know if they can read CD-Rs ?
Incidentally, this is something I've been curious about. Could your friend (or anyone else reading) share any wisdom as to who makes the better CD-R media? And which varieties thereof are the best?
I'm looking more for longevity than DVD readability, but those need not be mutually exclusive . . . .
iSKUNK!
This is nothing new with Sonys. They are notorious for being picky at playing CDRs. Car Audio enthusiasts have known this for years. You can either use higher quality media, or not buy a Sony.
For the record, some DVD players handle CDRs easily. I've tried a Sanyo model (can't remember model, green box, retails $175ish) that read CDRs fine, but a slightly more expensive Toshiba and Sharp didn't. So it IS possible, and not too cost-prohibitive.
I've kept an eye on this for a little while now, being in electronics retail, and I've heard two good POSSIBLE ideas:
1. CDRs return less light than commerically pressed CDs. This hasn't been a problem for newer CD players (in general). If DVD players aren't made sensitive enough, this explains plays-CDs-DVDs-but-not-CDRs. Possible test: put a CD-R in, listen to it spin.. if it spins, stops, spins, stops, spins... I'd assume a reading problem. No guarantees though.
2. This one is complete rumour - but it was a good source and makes SOME sense. I've been informed that all CD media has some info on disc already (chemical, manufacturer, type, etc). Pull up cd-record in linux and you'll get a page of it. Supposedly, a DVD player looks up the codes and if a certain test fails (CD_Type != CDR maybe), it doesn't read. VERY easy to do.
Since this is as much an opinion forum as anything else, I'll toss in my two bits: Sony profits on burners and CDRs. Sony profits more money through Sony Music (90% sure of this). Sony thinks, "Hey, I might lose a *little* in one small revenue stream, but what else is as EASY as this to kill off some piracy? After all, CDRs are only for pirates..." and tries it out on the lower- and middle-end DVD players.
If it backfires... wow, look, all newer models that read CDRs. Or, only high-end models get this feature. Better yet, "Sony offers upgrade for xxx-model owners!" Sony gets minor points in the public's eye for listening to them, while a few people are peeved enough not to buy Sony stuff again.
I emailed Sony about the same model above after my well informed electronics store rep told me the bad news with CD-R and their DVD players. In their infinite wisdom to protect their music properties, they are losing twice the business by resisting online distribution, which people are doing anyway, and then locking down their boxes, alienating their customers to seek alternative technologies. Unfortunately, I got the standard corporate babble response. My research tells me that they have calibrated their laser to reject tinted media which make up most CD-R's. However, I am told clear/silver CD-R media works. The Toshiba 4205 5 Disc DVD Player does play CD-R. Being a primarily Sony Buyer when it comes to electronics, I am annoyed enough to make a decision to buy the Toshiba, or an Apex, or Arcam. The last two support MP3 and multi-region coding. You lose Sony. weenerdog
I'm surprised this got posted. I'm sure this must have come up on slashdot before.
Ok, here's the scoop. A very good portion of DVD players will not play CD-R. If your sony player doesn't play them (it will likely play cd-rw btw) it is not because "sony has turned its back on cd-r", but rather because Sony didn't make the extra effort to make it cd-r compatible.
Only DVD drives which have been certified as multi-read compatible are guarenteed to play CD-RW, and CD-R both. There has been a push to get all dvd players to meet this standard, but some manufacturers have held off for various reasons (citing a lack of consumer demand and so forth).
As for Sony's own part, they arne't turning their back on CD-R at all. Look at the facts: They've just released a cd-r based Mavica digital camera (using the smaller 80mm type discs)and all of their non-dvd cd players are now labeled as "cd-r compatible" (as if it wasn't obvious). Do you honestly think they would buck such a huge trend in computing? The stockholders would have none of that.
Sometimes certian brands of cd-rs will work when others won't becuase of slightly better reflectivity and such. For instance, certain shinco models will only play princo made cd-rs.
Read more at the following:
Goes into much greater detail
Or Read here for a list of DVD's that *CAN* read CD-R (also cd-rw and vcd compatibility listed)
Flamebait? I'll bite.
Everyone. If I want to make a mix CD of music I own, then I have that right.
In fact, see MP3' Users' Rights at emusic.com. They give you permission to play CD-R's burned with their music (as long as you own a licence for their music).
Here's the deal:
This is Sony's way of introducing "Audio CD-R" discs. These disks have a key on them which identifies them as "allowed" to certain CD players. Basically, they're a way for Sony to make more money. They make these new and "improved" CDs which are "specially designed for digital audio recording," then make them cost twice as much as normal CD-R's. Then they make CD players which won't play normal CD-R's, but WILL play "Audio CD-R's." That way, people have no choice if they want to record music: the higher-priced Audio CD-R or nothing. Makes sense, huh?
Beware of a stereo which says that it plays "CD-R's." This may mean that it has been fixed to play ONLY Audio CD-R's.
Recording music to CD's is becoming more and more popular -- it is moving from the computer to the shelf, with rack components offering easy music recording. This introduces a whole new consumer base for digital recording, namely, those not familiar with computers. This new consumer base doesn't blink when told that normal CD-R's are not made for music, but Audio CD-R's are specially designed for music.
DVD's achieve a higher density of data on disk by using a blue laser as opposed to a red one that most CDROM's use. The blue laser allows it to focus on a much smaller point than a typical CDROM laser. As a side effect though, many of the (predominately blue) CDR's that you can buy wont work in these players.
I've heard previously that many of the DVD players that can play CDR's actually have two lasers.
It's not Sony quietly implementing piracy prevention technology into their products. It's just a limitation of the technology (and perhaps Sony being a cheapskate for not adding support for CDR's like many other brands do.)
Hmm. I ripped my entire CD collection & burned onto mp3 CDs. That way I only have to carry 10 CDs instead of all of them. I also have them sorted by music type, so if I feel like some old school punk, I can slip that disc in & not have to skip the unwanted tracks.
jred
www.cautioninc.com
jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
Besides better tracking DVD's use shorter wavelength lasers so the holes can be smaller. The substrate in CD-R's was designed to be as reflective as possible -- which isn't very -- in the range of wavelengths used by CD players. CD-R's are marginal even in standard CD players; the DVD player sees an even weaker signal than the CD player does because it uses the wrong color light.
It's no more a matter of piracy prevention than the fact that most regular CD players still won't play CD-RW's, which reflect even less light than CD-R's.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Phillips have been big on CD-R's and "making your own mixes".... Sony seems to be thinking that supporting CD-Rs and even their long struggling minidisc format will hurt their newest champion, the memory stick. This is a bit odd to me, for it seems like Sony's left hand doesn't know what it's right hand is doing. Sony picture frames, computers, and even printers are supporting the memory stick, but the PS2, DVD players, radio tuners, and TV's arent. The lack of CD-R support is definitely intentional, as even old car CD players support them. It's worth noting that a number of less popular and new DVD player manufacturers are supporting CD-Rs packed with MP3s :) (EPOX is the only one that comes to mind right now)
As has been posted here many times already, many DVD players don't work with CD-Rs. However, each machine's specs will tell you what formats it will play. If it doesn't say a certain format is supported, then you can't assume that it is. Some DVD olayers have problems with other kinds of media, auch as VCDs and Photo CDs. If you want to play a given media type on a player, then you have to check the supported formats before you make the purchase. A friend of mine was shopping for a player last week, and before he went down to Best Buy, I told him to ask for a player that supports CD-R. He did, and the salesman directed him to a Pioneer, which he bought. He's happy, and now he won't have any trouble if he gets one of these discs. Simple as that.
That light you see at the end of the tunnel might be from an oncoming train.
Okay, I can understand the issue one might come up with when trying to play CD-Rs in certain DVD players... as has been stated many times already, the lasers, the dyes, the manufacturers, the fnords, etc, can all have an impact on whether or not a particular model of DVD player will use a particular type of CD-R or CD-RW... but get THIS...
My father just bought a CD-R deck that will not write to most brands of discs.
Since I have a CD-RW drive in my computer, almost every batch of discs he's bought has been given to me, as he can't use them with his writer. Sony and Memorex branded discs work fine. TDK, Maxell, and some REALLY GENERIC stuff he bought (no manufacturer's name that I can see) refuse to write or play on the thing.
It's either a crap writer, or the CD-R industry really needs to standardize, even after all these years.
Personally, I've never had anything that wouldn't read/write/rewrite on my Sony Spressa, but not everybody wants a writer for use with a computer...
I wish I remembered the brand, so I could warn everyone to stay clear... I think the name was like Harmon Kardon or Karmon Hardon or something... It's pure shit.
-=-
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#2.4.3
To quote:
"It's not a conspiracy to prevent piracy, it's just the laser! The laser doesn't pick up CD-R's well, it's just the way it works!"
Did it ever occur to you people that maybe when DVD was being developed, there might have been a conversation that went like this:
Engineer: "Well, this 60nm blue laser we're using works great, EXCEPT it won't read CD-Rs."
Executive: "CD-R? What's that? Is that like a CD?"
Engineer: "Well yeah, it's a recordable CD, so people can write their own CDs. You know, they can backup data, make custom music CDs, whatever."
Executive: "Oh really."
(Later.)
Executive: "Well the engineer said they COULD use another type of laser, or a dual-laser doohickey, so it could read CD-Rs, but, ah, you know how [Hollywood | the music division of our humongous multinational greed-driven conglomerate | the lawyers] is/are about recordable media..."
Executive 2: "Good point. Let's stick with the single blue laser. No copying for you! Muahahaha!"
Executive: "Muahahaha!"
Okay, it probably wasn't that nefarious, but did it ever occur to you that they chose that type of laser PARTIALLY BECAUSE IT CAN'T READ CD-Rs WELL?
Note that I am not claiming that this is what happened, but I find it nearly amazing that no one here even bothered to entertain the possibility.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
This may sound like a conspiracy theory, but when looking around for DVD players I was warned that Sony explicitly refuses to play CD-Rs in their DVDs, nothing more complex than that. I was told it is because they own a Media company, and don't want people copying CDs the way people used to copy Records.
I bought one anyway because I got the 200-disk changer for $300 bucks, and I don't use CD-Rs.
Disclaimer: This may or may not be true, but I was told this by a few friends when I was looking around at DVD players.
Just because you write code, doesn't mean your an engineer. Unless you also drive a train...
Every device in my house playas (sic) CD-R's
What, the toaster too? And the coffee maker? And the refrigerator? Where can I get ones like that?!
And the brethren went away edified.
Sun spots.
It is very simple: DVD lasers are on slightly different wavelengths. But if you use pressed CDs or phthalocyanine-on-gold CD-Rs, you won't have any problems. The "GOLD" discs have higher reflectivity, and therefore can be "read" by a much wider range of lasers.
-
The IHA Forums
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
At the Consumer Electronics Show now wrapping up, Sony showed its first CDR-compatible DVD players. The engineers and marketers said it was because of market demand, and that they did it over the objections of Sony Music. Maybe if y'all read some real news sources and not just rumor-and-conspiracy sites like Slashdot, you'd know this.
To repeat: Sony fought supporting CDR playback until now, and have been backed into it by consumer demand.
Remember: the Playstation 2 doesn't play VideoCDs at all, in a market where all other DVD players can play VideoCDs. Sony sells DVDs and CDs. They do resist any technology that erodes those businesses heavily until they're forced to do otherwise.
If you want a DVD player that can play CDRs, CD-RW, VCD, SVCD, XVCD, MP3s and so forth, everybody knows the way to go is with no-name Chinese-made players, because the Chinese domestic market demands these features, so the manufacturers include support for all of the above. VCDs pressed on CDR media are extremely popular in China, and are in fact driving much of the market for players.
Careful -- I am definitely not a lawyer (IADNAL), but accusing someone of committing a crime when you don't have proof is libel, and you can be sued for it. Not that this person is likely to sue you for it, but others ofter will...
Rockwalrus
Rockwalrus
The sleep of reason produces monsters -- Francisco Goya
The problem with many DVD players that can't read CD-R's is due to the laser pickup. It all has to do with refelectance. Regular CD's are an almost perfect mirror with something like an 85-95% reflectance. CD-R's on the other hand, probably have something like 65% reflectance. CD-RW's have something around 35% reflectance which is why they won't play in all but the newest audio players. I bought a Toshiba SD-1200 DVD player because of the fact that it was inexpensive, had a great picture and also had lots of nice features. I found out when I took it out of the box that it didn't support CD-R's. (even said so in the manual.) ...Or so I thought.
Knowing that the problem was more than likely a laser pickup that needed a higher reflectance level on the disc, I tried a number of different brands of CD-R. Eventually I found a brand that worked. Would you belive it, it's a Sony! Sony's CDQ-74CN to be exact. Sony advertises these discs as having "Excellent Optical Technology" or XO. Give this a try.. you may find that it works.
Look for the quality logo . . . might work. I had a CD player that wasn't playing cheap-o CD-Rs but will play the one that sport the quality logo.
Listen to Reality!
I guess now that Usenet has become essentially unusable, Slashdot is the place to go when your too damned lazy to spend the five minutes it would take to answer this yourself?
Try this: Go to Google. Type in "CDR FAQ", and press return. Click on the very first returned link., for the "Andy McFadden's CD-Recordable Frequently Asked Questions." Read the table of contents, and follow the link to Can DVD players read CD-Rs?. Read.
It would be really, really nice if the guy who posted to "ask slashdot" had done any homework at all, and found out if there was some "unusual" reason his Sony DVD doesn't work with CD-R disks, such as Sony intentionally not supporting some logical format or if this was just the standard Frequently Asked Question that wouldn't even get into most moderated usenet news groups.
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
Er... 60-70nm would be considered well in the X-Ray region of the spectrum. I sincerely doubt that a DVD player uses this.
When I bought my DVD player this Christmas, I looked around for a player that would play CD-Rs because I knew my parents Sony did not and neither did my friend's RCA. I got decided on the Denon DVD-1000 because of the quality of the brand and the fact that it was one of the few that played CD-Rs.
Well my DVD player (a standalone unit) has two lasers to be able to read cd-rw's
I dont know al lott about laser wavelenght, but when looking for a player i learned that this was the standard.
This is my sig. Other people have one too,but this is mine.
This doesn't appear to be the case. DarkPhyber posted earlier that his high end Sony 'XO' player plays CD-Rs. My Denon player doesn't play CD-Rs and they aren't a recording company. While sony may have competing interests, there is no evidence to suggest that they're behaving any differently than the main body of dvd player manufacturers.
Not Off Topic, just an observation:
Kick ass! This is my argument for napster exactly! That is to say, while we have had numerous posts (and trolls..) regarding napster and/or associated legalities, i justify my use by pointing to my boxes (plural) of cassette tapes.
I have purchased all these Van Halen tunes i assure you (makes me wanna belt out 'Youre no good' to the RIAA, but thats another post altogether). I'm just pleased to see others subscribing to the same philosophy, and being no so nonchalant about it...
Anyway, about the main topic of this post: It's the damn laser. Everybody knows that!
:-) ..Brent
Moderators need an additional choice: "Karma Whore" for people who cut-and-paste articles as their comments!
What a waste of a posting. Like duh my DVD player doesn't play CD-R's. If you are that lame to not understand DVD players then you deserve to have it not play CD-R's. Once again Slashdot moves into junk postings that waste our time.
What about the Sony Mavica that writes digital images right to 156MB CD-R discs? Yes, it doesn't work in the DVD player...but how can you even think Sony is turning their back on CD-R technology (if it can be called such)? While these are not standard full-size CD-R discs, they are CD-R's. The home entertainment sector may not support them, but this does not reflect Sony as a whole, nor does it denote any conspiracy within Sony.
----
Mike
The 660 is the replacement for the 600A. No secret menu though : ( It doesn't play all MPEG's and some will play, but with problems (no sound, no color, etc...) Still, not a bad bonus feature. Apex doesn't advertise this ability because it doesn't offer full support.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
Hmm?
-Omar
I have a Sony S360 DVD player, and not only does it play VCD CD-Rs that I've burnt, but it also plays VCD CD-RWs. (along with playing burned audio CDs)
Yep, Sony makes mp3 players, but they all have SDMI encryption systems. Some early models wouldn't function until you register your SDMI code online, they wouldn't even play your OWN mp3s..
Remember, Sony is the only hardware manufacturer that also has a music division, it's one of their huge cash cows. Sony has pulled similar stunts in the past, some of their early CDR drives had little incompatibilities that made them unsuitable for burning music CDs. And that was the CDR model they shipped in all their computers at the time.
My Sony DVP-S560D also does not play CD-R audio CDs. I haven't looked in the manual to see if it says anything, but it doesn't recognize them when they're in.
CD Players use Infrared Lasers. DVD Players use Red Lasers. Blue lasers are still being worked on. They still need to get a 10,000 MTBF. So it will be out RSN.
Bzzzt.
The main reason some (esp 1st gen) DVDs can't read CDRs is precisely to do with the reflectivity. The reflective index of a DVD is typically about 35% that of a (silver) CD. The reflective index of a CDR is.... about 35% that of a (silver) CD.
I did a training course on mobile (in-car) dvd at pioneer a while back, and they were on about just this problem. The newer machines, those with two lasers or with a holographic-laser diode set, have no trouble.
However, this doesn't seem to be the case with Sony on this model. I have never seen a unit list CD-R as a standard not supported, and IMO this has to be aimed at the piracy issue. Sony == Columbia Studios == Sony Music, don't forget.
Ben^3The Slashdot Paradox: "100% Overrated"
I believe the reasoning behind most DVD players not supporting CD-R is that the DVD consoritium as well as the record recording industry is trying to crack down on piracy. In fact, most DVD players won't play CD-Rs unless they specifically list it as a feature. Some, however, do support CD-RWs. You might try one of those.
Sony doesn't want you to use CD-R's to record music, they want you to use MD. I think they feel that CD-R's are not for the Consumer electronics market.
I have a IBM ThinkPad and it has build in DVD player and it read my backup CDR with no problem. So I guess DVD player reading CDR is depends on the design. (My Toshiba 16x CD-ROM drive cannot read any multi-section CDR at all. Partly because of their design or chipset right? And the manual says that it doesn't support multi-section. But I'm sure Panasonic CDROM drives do support it.)
============
============
Mathematics will always come back to hunt you down, in so many ways
Why is it so difficult to get DVD players to support CD-R when they are obviously supported in PC DVDs which have been around for cheaper longer than anything else.
Laser, shamser. If they wanted, they could do it... They don't want to.
Smells of conspiracy to me.
VideoCD isn't just for pirates..Especially outside of the USA (and particularly in Asia). You can buy original VCDs, that are full licensed by the movie companies and everything.
Also, even when you buy pirate VideoCDs in such places as China, they are almost always on 'real' CD media, as it is much cheaper to mass produce that way.
Check to see if your player is on this list:
http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.htm
I had this issue when trying to cut VCD of digital pictures to view on my DVD player. I had to buy a specific brand that had been proven to work, and to also use CDRW media which has better reflectivity.
Although if Sony Electronics considers this an issue, it would be weird that the new player shown off by Sony at, was it Comdex, can play CD-Rs that contain MP3 files. I guess expecting consistency out of these big conglomerates is asking a bit much...
I just bought the next step up before Christmas, and was also a little puzzled at sony's lack of CD-R support. Many DVD players on the market can read R's, which is great for VCD's. Once again, another great thing ruined by companies not supporting options that we'd like.
I have a Panasonic DVD player that also plays CDs and VCDs and it does not support CD-Rs. I don't think it's a global conspiracy, just a manufacturing decision...
My friend went for brand names and bought a JVC player for twice the price and he can not play VCDs! My cheapo ($150 @ circuit city), noname (APEX) 'meepts' everything out there. Now some people can claim picture quality / sound quality ..etc. But for $150 I am *extremly* happy. I can see/hear the movies/MP3 fine.
If I am out to buy any CD player I would definitly consider Apex's line of players first. They deserve my business
Recently companies from Taiwan & Hongkong are coming out with far superior (atleast functionality wise) products than 'brand' Goliaths. Some areas are MP3, DVD & Cell phones. I am happy to see the competition as I don't have to give up my rights (e.g to watch region encoded DVD) just for the privilage of having a sony/panasonic at home.
I am surprised even early adaptors like Slashdot crowd are stuck with 'brand names'
Here is a large listing of success rates dealing with CD-R/RW/VCDs on various DVD players. It was posted earlier, but never got modded up so I decided to post it again. ;) http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.htm
~moofbong
If 'con' is the opposite of 'pro', what is the opposite of 'progress'?
--
--
Intelligence is definitely a recessive trait.
Best Buy sells a 200-disc Sony DVD/CD changer and I'm listening to a burned CD copy right now. This player costs $299, and having had it for two months now I'm quite impressed with it.
By the way, this story scared the living bejesus out of me as I hadn't tried CD-R's in the player until just now. Kinda would have interfered with plan to be a truly evil person by taking all the CD's I bought and copying them so I can listen to them in the car and at home.
---
Back in the early days of DVD, Sony was about the only manufacturer whose players would play CDRs. This was due to the 'dual discrete laser pickup' which was actually marketed as giving better CD-Audio support.
Now, only a few Sony models still have this feature but players from other manufacturers do play CDRs. I think Philips/Magnavox was one of the first to support CDRs.
A HeNe laser tube is 632.8nm and a laser diode is 680nm. Don't ask my why.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
A friend of mine has a sony dvd player that was only able to read two brands of CDR discs. We tried A LOT of brands. I forgot what the other brand was (it had a very shiny gold color) but the one that we use which consistently workes is PNY. Maybe it is just a fluke but that's the only (reasonably priced) brand of CDR that works with his Sony. I am not sure if his player was supposed to support CDRs or not but even the super-expensive Sony-made CDRs did not work in his machine. I have heard several other people tell me that PNY works best for them in various CD or DVD/VCD players. Two months ago I ordered a 50-pack of 80-minute PNY CDRs on the web for ~$40. But last week I found Best Buy running a special where they sold for $15 / 50 (!!) plus a $15 rebate if you buy two packs. I hope they aren't switching to a cheaper dye or discontinuing the product. Anyhow that's just my experience. What brands do you all stick to?
-rob@NOellisbrosSPAMcom
check this out for all you ever want to know about DVD. http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
> Try this: Go to Google. Type in "CDR FAQ", and press return.
My Microsoft keyboard doesn't have a return key! They've replaced it with their proprietary 'enter' key! This must be due to all the software piracy infoz using 'return'... What can I do to fight back???
Let's see©©©
>
Can anyone explain to me why my periods get changed to copyright symbols? It's happened with Mozilla and Netscape 6 under Windows 2000 (my work computer).
Maybe I should submit a bug report....
Ideas?
-the wunderhorn
Karma: Bored. (Thinking about resurrecting the "Anyone else is an imposter" joke.)
The DVD player that I purchased specifically had a sticker on the front of it that said that it played CD-R and CD-RW media. It's a Phillips dual-laser machine.
I went out looking for exactly that, as I burn Video CDs.
Hay thar.
I would highly recommend this changer for anyone concerned about playback of CD-Rs and CD-RWs.
Marantz also makes this beauty:
http://www.marantz.com/db/?MIval=h_product_full&pr od_id=496
No, I don't work for Marantz, but I have owned some of their products for quite a while. Great stuff!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have the exact same player except one model before that. Mine "DOES" support CDRs! How can this be you may ask, well the player before the one we are discussing has dual lasers one for CDs and one for DVDs. The took out the dual laser funtionality last april, shortly after I purchased my machine.
Young one, you must realize that sarcasm is difficult to convey using written methods.
Mike Roberto
- GAIM: MicroBerto
Berto
Now on CDs: kind of the opposite, CD players will by default support CD and non CDRW media, so the "additional feature" would be the CDRW support. Of course, with the price of a single blank CDRW disc i can easily buy 10 o to 20 CDR discs, so i actually don't care anything (and actually avoid) CDRW media. Some DVD players without CDR support, just "happen" to read some CDRW discs. CDRW is bad anyway, limited to 1000 writes, so you better stop deleting and writting small documents on them...
Now the real *real* DVD-R (burners still costing tens of thousands of dollars) can be played in all existing DVD units (yes, assuming decent non locked fully blank media). All the pseudo DVD-Rom/Ram stuff is not really compatible with existing players, avoid it, or consider Mini-DVD backups (which fit 1 to 3 normal CDs) with sligtly less quality (like SVHS/SP), but since you will do backups with CDR media, is better that your player supported them on the first place.
This has nothing to do with Sony, or any other manufacturer. The DVD incompatibility occured when they changed the invisible wider laser with the smaller reddish one, it is a side effect. If you keep shrinking the laser, you'll get to the famous blue one, but they didn't use it probably for the fear of total CD compatibility lost. A nonsense, since most DVD units ended supporting CDR media by having both a red and invisible laser (or a mechanism to change wavelengths on the fly).
--
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
I just returned one of these players (the same exact model) to the store I bought it from last month. Not only would it not play CD-R's, but it refused to play about 80% of the retail CD's I tried to play on it. Probably not one of Sony's better products...
So they don't have product reviews, they don't do news archiving, what do they do, besides frame recent news articles with 4 inches of ads on all sides? Maybe 'deja' refers to the feeling we get when we see them on f*ckedcompany?
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful, hate me because I run your IT department...
AND
Can anyone explain to me why my periods get changed to copyright symbols?
Actually we fear you running the IT dept.
Ò
Perhaps folks who trade live concert recordings. There are quite a few artists who allow/encourage this sort of activity these days
Even Metallica allow trading of recordings of live performances; they've already made their money on tickets. They just don't want you trading the studio recordings for the price of the media.
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Hope I didn't miss someone else posting this, I skimmed subject tags...
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it, but I have a friend who has reported to me that his (old-ish) DVD drive has a tendency to not just refuse to read CD-Rs, but to actually erase them. If this player utilizes an old-school DVD mechanism, that could be it. (Note that it doesn't do it to *all* of his CD-Rs, just at random, so that might explain continued functionality in those CD-Rs.)
inigima
And why the hell would sony MAKE cdr drives themselves? No, it has nothing to do with piracy, and everything with the fact that sony decided to cheap out on the laser if they are making a changer or something.
Well, Playstation 2 (which I'm still trying to buy -- which are still selling out within an hour and only arriving every couple of weeks) has a DVD/CD player... Someone go stick in a CD-R audio CD and see if it plays the music....
-Chris
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Some people have suggested it is a technical problem, which is quite possible.
:)
But if it isn't technical, doesn't this infringe on fair use?
Someone should start a class action lawsuit against Sony for infringing on fair use of CD-Rs
But in all seriousness, where would the law stand on something like that? Does such a thing actually infringe on fair use?
After all, making compilation CDs of music you already own is perfectly legal.
Could be worth looking into.
Dark Nexus
Dark Nexus
"Sanity is calming, but madness is more interesting."
This is not a conspiracy from Sony! (Note: This is in Canada I don't know about else where in the world) Last month, I was shopping for a DVD Player. In the store I went to there were ~ 20 different types of players. Only 3 played CD-R (Technics, Hitachi and Zenith) All the others (Sony, Marantz, Panasonic, Denon) and other DVD players from Hitachi Technics and Zenith) did not play CD-R. Even the ~ CAn$1200 DVD-Audio Player would not play them. It seems that only players designed specifically for CD-R can play them (i.e. Dual Laser players) It is possible for one revision of a player to play CD-R and another not. (This happened with some low end Zeinth players) lnical
It supports SONY brand CD-R's. It's a Sony DVD player after all. And then use the right dye type in Sony CD-R's.
It is almost impossible to find a CD-R media which consistently works in a DVD player. It depends on the color of the media, and the burn speed, and the color of the reflective material and.... probably the phase of the moon. The reason is the wavelength (or color) of the laser.
CD-RW's seem to work just fine, however. My understanding is that the color of the CD-RW media is closer to the stuff the DVD is looking for and as a result works. I haven't had any problems to speak of recording audio (or Video CD tracks) onto a CD-RW and reading them in almost any DVD player. I'd try a CD-RW.
i have a panasonic SC-HT80 cd/dvd 5 disc changer/surround sound setup and in the manual it states it does not play CDR/CDRW discs
http://www.awwsheezy.com
Well, having worked with this device I know that the cd laser is a legacy model, so it will not recognize the low reflection traits of a CD-R. No big conspiracy, its just economics. They had the old stuff availbale and used it. The DVD laser is used only for DVDs, so it doesnt factor into the CD equation.
according to Sam's laser FAQ, DVD lasers emit at 635 nm, whereas CD lasers emit at 780 nm. I'm still trying to find a sources explaining why a lot of DVD players don't support CD-R's
Get involved
It's the 21st Century Do you know what your government is doing
My 5-disc Sony has the dual-discrete (two laser) system; it will very few brands of CD-R's, but can read most brands of CD-RW's. I think the issue is not only whether it's reflective or not, but whether it interprets the reflectivity to mean to use the "DVD Laser" or the "CD Laser". That would explain the amount of whirring I hear as it "tries" to identify the disc. With most CD-RW's, it'll happily play VCD 1.0/2.0 discs (but not SVCD), and burned CD-Audio discs.
I found an article about this.
In short, it's a wavelength issue, with several possible solutions, one of which is two lasers.
Get involved
It's the 21st Century Do you know what your government is doing
I have the Pioneer DVD 104S (not exactly sure of the number) 10x speed slot loading model. Uses CD-R's and RW's just fine. I would imagine their newer similar models (15x) would work too.
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
Most "no CDR" Devices can read from higher quality CDRs with no problem. I personally stick with golds or silvers. Also, make sure you close the session on the disk, or many players will not be able to read it. Some (most) audio CD players will puke on multi-session CDs; I try to burn all at once, all the time. Other than reflectivity and format on the disk, the player can't tell if it's a CDR or a "pressed" cd.
One last item: All of the new philips players will read everything, including CDRWs.
I used to work for a Multimedia Company, so we had to deal with these issues quite often.
Choose the Pioneer DV 525. It's probably out of production now, but it has some features that are really hard to find. Not only does it play CDRs, but it can even play VCDs burned on CDRs. Those familiar with VCDs know that it's hard to find a DVD player that will play VCDs burnt on CDRs. Usually they only play "proper" VCDs, or those burnt on CD-RW.
If you think VCDs are not interesting, wait until one day you decide you want to transfer your collection of VHS tapes to something more lasting. I know I will do this with some of my rare movies on VHS.
Another good thing with the DV 525 is that there are many solutions to multi-region enable it. Also, it's generally considered one of the best value DVD players. A real shame it's not produced anymore.
Sigged!
5 disc DVD/VCD/CD player with CDR compatibility. I've even made my own VCDs on CDR media to great success.
Sony and some other manufacturers that are also part of the recording industry feel that this is one way they can eliminate pirating. So no matter what you try to do they will make sure that you are not listening to pirated music or watching pirated VCDs. Next time before you buy a DVD player just make sure it can play CD-Rs or look around for someone that will install a mod chip to allow for CD-Rs.
"Software is like sex: It's better when it's free." --- Linus Torvalds, from FSF T-shirt
My Onkyo has the same problem. But the salesman informed me of this before I bought it, and I accept this fault.
The reason is this: The laser used in normal cd players has a wavelenght of about 700nm. The laser in dvd drives is about 630nm. Incidentally this is the same wavelenght that cd-rw's use, and so any dvd player should have no trouble with cd-rw.
The reason the dvd player can play cd's but not cd-r's is because cd-r's are not as reflective as pressed cd's and so the laser can't pick them up. This is the same problem older cd-rom drives have with cd-rw discs, except that wavelengths are reversed. So-called "multi-read" drives either use two lasers or use one designed to read less reflective material. Unfortunately your dvd player is not one of those.
So your solution is to either burn to cd-rw or buy a new dvd player.
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
the DVD drive that came with my Micron Millennia in april of '99 reads CD-R's perfectly as well... strangely my father has a stereo/cdplayer in his truck that WON'T play CD-R's while my aiwa stereo, which is 3+ years older, does!
I think this is really a matter of bad manufacturing processes that lead the companies to design around their own defects... but that's just my thought
He did RTFM, as you would have seen if you bothered to read his post fully before going off on your rant about asking /. for help. More correctly, though, I think you meant RTFF (read the friggin' FAQ). But moreover I think that you should be more concerned with his question even MAKING onto a headline on /. After all, if it is such a worthless question, why would it have found its way into the headlines? Seeing as how his post bothered you SO much I would think that you would have just ignored it. In the time that it took you to research his question and find the solution you could have been doing something a little more productive. I am inclined to believe that you were out looking for flamebait and couldn't come up with anything better.
Some of the older drives do have lasers hot enough to burn CDRs just by playing them. I had an old 8X cdrom drive that destroyed a few cdrs just by reading them. This seems to be mainly a problem with early-generation high-speed cdrom drives, which often used higher-intensity lasers to compensate for the decreased signal clarity due to the faster-rotating disk. I'm rather surprised that you had this problem with a DVD player tho.
The DV-606D does support CD-Rs. At least mine does. I'm pretty sure the manual mentions the support for CD-R disks. I've tried many different brands of disks and haven't had a problem yet.
-- flossie
http telnet
flossie
Write now. Defend liberty
It's not due to reflectivity. CD-Rs reflect about 80% which is very close to the reflectivity of pressed CDs.
Refrag
I have a website. It's about Macs.
If all DVD drives in computers can read CD-R and CD-RW, why does home DVD can't do the same?
The only reason I see is that it cost a bit more to make drives read everything.
They sure have the technology to make good lazer, they just don't use it.
I believe the DVP-C600D is a generation older version of the player in dispute, and mine definitely plays every CD-R I've put into it.
So, this leads me to believe that they're either using a cheaper mechanism, or did it on purpose.
Make of this what you will.
So there is no technical reason it can't be done. Maybe a patent reason though.
Sony would make it's DVD player deliberately incompatible with CD-R's
/. would post a story with the stupid "deliberately incompatible" question in the body.
/. sleeping or just 'Cliff' & 'Slashdotter'?
/. crowd would be more 'in-tune' with the 'big picture' - but it seems that we are as addle-minded at the population at large: Dazed and confused by the world around us, so much so that the obvious becomes surreal and existance is a picture-show. Was there anyone not thouroughly disgusted with sony before this?
Maybe its, Ummmh, uh I dunno... maybe it is because sony is the most evil,controlling,$WHORES$ in media & electronics today?
Have we not determined -- through the lessons of BetaMax, MemoryStick & the "we will block it at the ISP, we will block it at the computer, we will block it at your HD" quote from the VP of ?????? we still wonder why SONY would purposely stop CDR playback?
I was in Chicago for NewYears, I went downtown to see the AIBO at the sony store. I purposely (to help interfere with meme propagation) asked the 'Help Desk' if sony made any DVDs without region encoding ((or switchable regions) knowing full well they had none). His reply "Well - sony has a large interest in the media industry and they are worried about protecting their property - they wont even sell CDRs in their PCs because of this".
It is beyond astonishing that
Surely I cant be the only one NOT surprised at this - didnt we already learn that sony is one of the worst IP fucks on the planet? Is anyone surprised that they would do this? Is everyone reading
Its almost depressing to come to this site and read story after story of how sony (and others) repeatedly act this way -- then we get stories like this one -- Is anyone awake or are they caught in a haze of hyper-info that has obliterated their memory and cognative recolection? Why seek information if you are incapable of learning any lessons from it and adjusting your behaviour? I thought that the
WTF - Am I the only one who remembers anymore????
The CD-R must have intentionally been unsupported in an effort to get people to actually use their memory stick idea for mp3 songs and such...Anything to, help along a BetaMax of an idea, oh, excuse me, MiniDisc of an idea. Give us a break sony, you know where you can shove that proprietary s-link of yours....right up through you Laserlink beeoch....
Yes, I know why. It's because of the DVD laser wavelength. Now, if you could all please stop skipping your schizophrenia(sp?) medication for long enough to figure out how to use a search engine, I'm sure the /. s/n ratio would skyrocket almost immediately. =)
Ok, while the question about the DVD player has been answered by other posts, I feel I should point something out.
Do you really think that when Sony et al talk about piracy that that's what they're concerned about? It's not that at all. Sony doesn't give a crap about legitimate/illegitimate purposes. Right now, a few major record companies have a stranglehold on the music market. That's why most music you hear today sucks... These companies put out watered-down crap that attracts a large market.
New media forms, such as MP3s and CD-R threaten these companies' hold on the market. Now, anyone can put out music, and you can bet that a lot of it's a heck of a lot better than what the major labels are putting out. The possibility that consumers will buy stuff that they think is really good, as opposed to what major labels force feed them, is terrifying to companies like Sony. Sony is a heck of a lot more concerned about musicians like your friends than they are about piracy.
I'm replying to this thread a little late, but I e-mailed sony Customer Service about the same issue on my Sony DVP-S560D DVD Player and I got this form letter seeming response:
r v. shtml
Thank you for contacting SONY.
With the exception of some of the new 2000 Mobile Xplod series, our Sony CD
units are designed to play only commercially-produced and copyrighted CDs.
These units are not designed to be compatible with CDs that are produced on
a CD-ROM or other recording unit. It is possible that some of them may
work, but they are not designed to do so.
We can not guarantee compatibility due to the reflective properties of
CD-ROM media (it is different from pre-recorded CD's), and the different
laser wavelength requirements of CD-ROM media.
If you are able to play commercially-produced CD's in the unit, the unit is
working up to factory specifications.
The answers to many customer questions may be found at:
http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/ss5/custse
Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.
The SONY Internet Group
Customer Information Services Center
CM77
Hire some qualified editors... given that this is a "geek news" site, by "qualified" I could mean "technically knowledgable" in addition to the obvious "knows how to do fact-checking properly". In case no one there has noticed, both traits seem to be in short supply.
And even failing that, perhaps the number of apocryphal conspiracy theories can be reduced if the current editors are directed to take their schizophrenia medication more regularly?... =)
I'm getting tired of seeing stories with the theme '"the man" imposes yet more authoritarian restrictions on geeks everywhere', where the restrictions are actually imposed by the laws of physics and simple economics (and this can be easily confirmed in 10 minutes by any idiot with access to a good search engine). Together with the almost-daily accidental double posting of stories, and other wierd gossip that passes for "news" items, slashdot is becoming almost unreadable.
For those outside the USA, check out the LG 2300 - it'll play *anything* you can throw at it in the media department, except MP3s.
If the PS2 can read CD-Rs - and can play PS1 games - can it then play a copied PS1 game without modifications made to the system... thought you may have tried
Read CD-R FAQ
CD-R disk are made of :
cyanine dye: poor chance (green)
azo dye: fair chance
phthalocyanine dye: good chance (often gold color)
It is hard to say which medium of different manufactors are using (make it VERY hard). Your best chance is avoid green CD-R and try gold ones. I know for sure CD-R from HP is phthalocyanine dye. I can play audio-CD made only from HP CD-R on my DVD player.
Normally if the DVD doesn't specify it could play CD-R, then you are on your own. I tried at least 10 different brand of CD-R finally I gave up. I returned my Kones-3000 DVD player and got a Pioneer DV-333. It is one of those who can play CD-R flawlessly. And it plays my burnt VCD on CD-R too.
--- You make things foolproof, and they'll find you a damn fool.
For people who seem to universally consider themselves of above-average intelligence, geeks have an awful lot of trouble with the English language.
s/geeks/slashdot posters/g
And yes, I *know* that includes me.
> By way of analogy, how many of you have Linux "supported" on your laptop? By your ISP? Or do they merely happen to work with certain Linux configurations, with or without official support?
By way of irrony.. I had to replace a "Linux Supported" modem with a "Windows only" modem becouse the first didn't work with Linux while the second worked perfictly...
Back on topic.... sort-of... "Supported" really means "If it works horray for you if it dosn't don't call"...
If you want assurences that it will work then look for "Supported"... It purely means "It should work and as far as we know it dose work" (Linux excluded due to hype factor)..
And a final sence of Irony...
I have a scanner that supports Windows 3.11 and Dos.. (I'm getting ready to write a Linux driver).. a hack makes it work on Windows 95 and it takes moving hell and earth (write a whole new driver) to make it work in 98...
Becouse it's a Dos generation scanner it's fully documented so that dos apps can support it...
[Makes my life MUCH easyer]
I don't actually exist.
Remember: the Playstation 2 doesn't play VideoCDs at all, in a market where all other DVD players can play VideoCDs.
My Samsung DVD-905 for one - it will play regular audio CD-R's but barfs horribly when presented with a VideoCD.
This sig left unintentionally blank.
Well, I just read about the Memory Sticks in a previous posting in this article, so I thought I could make a cool joke about it here.
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
The only DVD player that will play CD-Rs is Pioneer. It's not that Sony has turned they're back on them it's the whole sector. DVD copyright is the only thing that the recording industry has lately. Now that MP3z are prolific and unstoppable.
WURD!!
Click me!
The above post is an editorial, the poster cannot and will not be held responsible for all or in part for it's contents
Get a life and stay on topic.
Tired of being another body in the flock? Linux ! We are not sheep anymore.
Heres a list of Sonys that will play CD-R's:
http://www.vcdhelp.com/search.php?DVDname=S
My take on this is that manufactuers who explicitly say this in their manuals *don't* want you to use CD-Rs on your home DVD player. They went through the trouble of printing that in the manuals because they know someone will try. For what reasons I don't know. It could be just cheaper for them to not have that feature in, or maybe they thought it wasn't a viable enough reason to include it in their products.
RCA's (generally) are for the entry DVD market, and since the parient post said that theirs was a Sony, (which are mid to high scale range imho, if i'm wrong tell me) that would cancel out the fact that you need to buy a more expensive DVD player to have that feature to play CD-Rs. Also the Apex line is a good debunking example of this as well.
whatever the case, it's not just limited to Sony, be rest assured on that. I was quited disappointed that i could play VCD's on mine too. I'd like to know the reason myself.
A Penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
http://www.flexion.org/video/VideoCDonDVD/atom.htm l
They probably figured out a way to make it only play Sony CD-R discs.
"Saddam Hussein cavorts with terrorists."
I've actually seen several DVD-capable players have problems with CDR and CDRW media. The explanation given to me by the manufacturers (one being Sony, the other being ... crap, i don't remember) is that, because CDR and CDRW don't really have pits and just simulate them by manipulating a chemical coating, some DVD lasers have troubles reading them.
woof!
I've just bought a Sony DVD-335S (or was it 355?) and it also doesn't play CDRs... :-( Dammit - it was going to replace my CD player in my hifi stack.
(well - it won't play TDK "White" CDRs - I might have to try better quality ones at some point.)
As an aside...
TwP is right, you are off by a factor of 10.
70-60 nm is well in the extreme UV range.
UV starts below about 300nm (for my work, I say 250nm, I know some that say 350nm)
Air (H2O, O2) starts interfering below 200nm
N2 (~70% of air) starts interfering below ~150nm
And it is very hard to take measurements below 120nm. Most measurements below 200nm are done under a High Vacuum ( lees than 10^-5 Torr).
The visible range is red (~700nm) to violet (~350/400nm).
Communications Solid Lasers work between 1.4 um (1400nm) and 650 nm...
Part of the problem with Deep Blue and UV sources is that the photon's carry enough energy to start breaking atomic bonds, leading to the optical elements degrading over time as they are etched by the light source. That will limit how low you can go in a consumer device, since you don't want to sell a product that has to be serviced every 500 hrs. In the extreme UV that is the case.
btw. the hot non-solid state laser wavelength numbers are 193nm and 157nm. Can not remember the laser types, sorry.
TastesLikeHerringFlavoredChicken
My friend has a cd-changer for his car, and he says it wouldn't play "data" CD-Rs: it needs the "for-audio" type.
Just my 2c.
Read that article again. He developed blue and shorter LEDs, and was WORKING on diode lasers, but blue diode lasers are still not commercially viable.
I just need to get me a green laser pointer... I know they exist, but are $$$.
Uhm... you can't make this stuff up as you go along, you know. The PSX, PS1, and PS2 ALL accept CD-Rs. For both games AND audio. The protection has nothing to do with CDRs or "wobbles". It's encoded on the R-W subcode channel, which can't be reproduced by consumer CDR drives, and and the chip for PSX and PS1 use a PAL (not the the PLA, the terririst organization) to "simulate" this channel so the game will boot... the machine can read the disc fine (well, older PSX units have trouble with high speed burns and some media types, but generally work). It is not possible for a typical CD player to tell what kind of media is being used.
For what it's worth, and this is a hunch (the above is what I _KNOW_ to be true), Sony was forced to support CDRs on the PS2 because they needed an IR laser in order to read the "black" PSX discs for compatability mode (these "black" discs are actually IR transparent). If they hadn't gone with the fancy black discs on the original PSX, they could have made piracy on the PS2 a hell of a lot harder by using only a red laser (for DVDs and CDs) which doesn't do well on CDRs.
A lot of DVD players won't read CD-Rs, but I've found that they will read *some* CD-Rs, and they will read CD-RWs.
Try to find CD-R discs that have light bottoms (as close to a real CD as possible).
Well, one of those is CO2, but I'm not sure which wavelength it corresponds to. CO2 Lasers are quite hot, and are typically used in industrial cutting and welding LASER robots. When focused correctly, these beams heat most non-reflective solid materials to extreme temperatures. One material that this LASER wavelength does have problems with (depending on your perspective) is Aluminum, which melts under the beam, but is highly reflective in it's molten state. This reflectivity tends to spread the beam, and reflect it back to its source. In a device like a DVD or CD reader, this wouldn't be a problem (aside from destroying the media). In most industrial cases, the reflection causes extremely premature wear of the lenses, sometimes causing the lense to explode!
Yes, I know that industrial lasers are in the 1-5 kW range typically while your typical CD/DVD is in the 3-10 mW range, but the industrial lasers are built to typically handle that much power.
-- Len
P.S. My use of LASER in all caps is because it was the Acronym that I learned of first; Light Amplified by Simulated Emission of Radiation. Today, laser and radar have become words on their own, jetissoning the original acronyms.
I bought a very low end DVD player (KLH $99 @ Best Buy), and when I got home I was pleasantly surprised to find that it read DVD, CD, CD-R, CD-RW, and VCD. None of which was advertised on the box. Granted KLH is primarily an audio manufacturer, but hey, I was happy.
Who? Me?! Where?!?!
The Sony DVP-7700, plays CD-R's just fine.
The same thing happened to me! I bought my grandmother a 7 disc changer from Sony. Without reading the box or talking to the sales rep, I decided that this was the best possible choice for me. On Christmas morning, we were shocked to discover that the Sony DVD player only plays DVDs! Then when I read the manual, I realized that Sony intentionally left out support for my 45 rpm records! I had to cut around the outside of the record, but finally I made it fit, but it still didn't play. I was so terribly crushed that the corporate whores at Sony didn't read my mind and supply support for 45s that it was three days before I realized I couldn't play 8-tracks in it either! I called the customer support line to complain, and they told me that in order to play 8-tracks or 45s, I was actually going to have to buy seperate players for each media type! Why, I'll bet the 8-track player doesn't even run Linux. (And if it does, its probably Red Hat. Pfeh.)
Why is Gnome pronounced with a hard G?
Gah
If you note, Sony does not have a CD-R audio unit in their consumer products line. They have MiniDisc recorders as components and portables, but no CD-R. You have to go to Sony Computers to find a CD-R unit.
Perhaps Sony figures that the only use for reading CD-R discs is for home brew audio, and in their minds, MD is the only way to do that.
Of course Sony is known for this kind of stuff. Think Beta/VHS, DVD-Audio/SACD. This is just their way of supporting their format.
-poo
Most DVD players that don't support CD-R's do so for simple cost and complexity reasons.
The reason the 630nm red laser cannot read a CD-R is simply because the dye is invisible to that spectrum -- CD-R's were designed for 780nm CD drives. However, all DVD players can read CD-RW's -- most do a better job at it than CD-ROM drives.
I don't give a rats ass what people say about lasers. If sony is selling you a product "top of the line" and it doesn't support a simple disc type as CD-R then they're screwing you. My cheap ass (cheapest one I could find at the time) Memorex (yes, wal-mart style baby!) can play my Starwars VCD (the only one I have on CD-R format) perfectly fine. Oh yeah, it plays audio cd's quite nicely too. Companies like Sony are doing it to prevent you from burning your favorite vcd's :p...
(conveniently the Playstation 2 doesn't play VCD's either - on cdr or real ones)
It's just Crap.
I've got a laptop with a no name CD ROM drive, and while I'm hesitant to accuse Sony of this crime, it does strike me as possible.
Some CD-Rs are physicaly heavier then others. I don't know why this is, but it seems to be the case. Either way, two equily sized objects with different densities spun by two equal forces (say, a CD-ROM or DVD motor) won't spin at the same rate. This FUBARs the data feed, and kerplow, the CD-R dosn't work.
I've verified this by being amazed that some brands of CD-R don't work in my laptop but do work in my desktop. Could this be a case of Sony skimping on the motor?
Killfile(TGK)
No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
A normal CD is 70% reflective. A CD-R is 30% reflective. A CD-RW is 5% reflective.
Sony's Dual Discrete optical pickup block has two lasers, one IR and one red. As far as I know, there's absolutely no reason the IR pickup would be capable of picking up CD-RWs but not CD-Rs unless there was some firmware problem/limitation.
You remember how CD-ROM drives a while ago weren't able to read CD-RWs but could read CD-Rs? That's because the firmware didn't know a valid CD could have such a low reflectivity, and assumed there was no disc in the drive (or just plain couldn't read it). However, newer drives will crank up the gain on the photodiode used in the pickup block in order to "see" the very faint reflection from CD-RWs.
I've personally used more than 500 Sony CD-Rs (CDQ-74CN; I buy them by the box of 100 in jewel cases), and they are high quality CD-Rs, but the "XO" moniker is purely marketing hype. Sony CD-Rs are manufactured by Taiyo Yuden and have precisely the same composition of Azo (blue) dye as any other Taiyo Yuden CD-R. (If you don't believe me, get a program that will read the ATIP [absolute time in pregroove] of a CD-R disc, and it will quote the manufacturer as Taiyo Yuden.) Incidentally, Sony CD-RWs are manufactured by Mitsubishi Chemical, if I have my facts straight.
--
Adam, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. CD uses infrared (735nm) lasers, and DVD uses red (635-650nm) lasers.
Pressed CDs are 70% reflective, CD-Rs are 35% reflective, CD-RWs are 5% reflective.
Yes, Sony has a "Dual Discrete optical pickup", which is two pickup blocks in one (two lasers, two lenses, two photodiodes). One is IR, one is red.
Blue lasers cannot currently be mass-produced.
--
I've got Memorex discs that are gold on top and bright blue on the recording surface. Haven't had any problems with 'em. The CD-RWs are generic CompUSA crap, and they're also fine.
The problem is that since DVD uses blue laser, and CD uses red laser, the blue laser doesn't reflect as good from the burned discs. More expensive players have the twin laser pickup that can read CD-R's. BTW, check out LG's new DVD player. It can play CD-R's and it can play MP3 burned discs. It even displays the titles on the TV.
See www.nichia.com, where it states the ``violet'' laser diode will be available from October 1999. It is 2001 now, man!
CO2 is an infared laser (10,600nm) I'm talking about the hot (way cool, lottso research money) short wavelength laser's used in micro lithography (can we say etching semi-conductor photo resist). The "next" generation's will be 193nm and then 157nm. These wavelength's where chosen because they are sandard laser lines.
let's see...
193 nm - gas ARF2 (as in Argon Flourine)
157 nm - gas F2 (as in Flourine)
pulled gasses off of LambdaPhysik's web site.
TastesLikeHerringFlavoredChicken
Actually, the PS1 chips are generally PIC's(small micro controller's) not PAL's( programable array logic).
+++ BASELINE REALITY FAILURE+++ +++ PLEASE REBOOT UNIVERSE +++
My fathers car ( a second hand japanese import- ie it's spec is japanese home market) will not play most of my original cd's (most of them 2-3 years old) but it will play cdr copies of them. Anyone know why?
I don't know whether they're commercially viable, but you can buy them. Nichia has been selling them (starting at kilobuck prices) for a while now. IIRC, volumes are going up and prices are coming down, but I might be thinking of the UV LED.
-- ;-)
Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end.
At the CES show last week, all the new Sony's DVD players will now be able to play CD-R's except for their bottom of the line model. Originally they lock out the CD-R's to help out their MD products.
I know nothing about all this - it's an honest question
My desktop PC (like many people's) has a DVD and a CD-RW drive. I own no DVDs, but very many shop-bought silver-disc music CDs.
Why is my DVD so pathetic at playing them ?
It's plays most of them, but the drop-out rate is terrible and a disc that has the slightest pinholing will often lose whole tracks. Is this inherent in DVDs, or do I just have a bad one ? It's gettign to the point where, as my CD drive spends more time playing music than anything else, I'm looking to junk the DVD and "downgrade".