Slashdot Mirror
VIM 6.0 is Out
LinuxNews.pl writes "It's more then a year after releasing the first 6.0 alpha. Lot's of improvements (i.e. you can edit files via FTP!) - check
them out on vim.org" Of course everyone knows that vim is the best text editor in the world. Anyone who tells you differently is either wrong, lying, or criminally insane. (Or an emacs user, in which case they are wrong, lying and criminally insane).
Taco's comments wouldn't be considered flamebait... Nah...
I'll be back tomorrow when the flamewar has cooled off.
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
If that isn't flaimbait, then what is!?
Boy, the way Taco is trying to start a holy war here, anyone would think that he made money on ad impressions every time someone posted a comment.
--
E_NOSIG
How come we can't mod CT's original post down as a troll?
Thank God I'm an atheist!
3 modes editing: now hitting the ESC repeatedly won't help you, you're doomed.
Je t'aime Stéphanie
And thus another round of Emacs Versus Vi begins.
>
I used to wonder what was so holy about a silent night, now I have a child.
Slashdot: Enabling useless holy wars since 199x.
He's just right.
MS Visual Studio gives you all that and a bag of chips. Plus, you don't have to pay the Stallman tax.
Come on, everyone knows Microsoft Word 6.0 for the Macintosh is far and away the best text editor out there. I am shocked and amazed that anyone would still use these unix tools that don't have a Tip of the Day and pretty cut and paste buttons! Plus the macro language is extremely useful in Word 6.0 and later versions - if you can't automate your most important features, the program just isn't worth using.
sulli
RTFJ.
Nedit Rocks my .... ;)
Anybody knows the definition of 'sarcasm' ?
So did Vigor, the vi paperclip, make it into the 6.0 release?
All true hackers know nvi is where it's at. Vim is for emacs wannabes.
Hello,
If you are going to put an editor story on slashdot you know that you are going to start a editor war. So I thought I would offer my two cents. I like nano the enhanced pico. It is small lightwieght and has search and replace. Perfect for editing config files...
Douglas Calvert
here's the text of the latest 6.0ax announcement:
g e/ 23413
g e/ 23598
g e/ 23730
g e/ 23941
g e/ 24252
g e/ 24546
g e/ 24841
g e/ 25061 You can find the most recent patches here: ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unreleased/patches What is Vim?
From: Bram Moolenaar
To: vim-announce@vim.org
Subject: Vim version 6.0ax BETA is available
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:51:23 +0200
Message-Id: Announcing: Vim (Vi IMproved) version 6.0ax BETA
Author: Bram Moolenaar et al. Announcement
------------ This is a BETA test version of Vim. Vim 6.0 is a huge step from Vim
5.x. Many, many new features and improvements have been included. For
an overview, with a few screendumps, look here: http://vim.sf.net/whyvim.php The past two weeks many bugs have been fixed. This release is to check
if no mistakes were made. If nothing important comes up, 6.0 will be
released in a few days. Thanks to all people who reported problems and
helped fixing them! If you notice a problem, please report it! It would be annoying if Vim
6.0 will be released with a problem that could have been fixed if you
would have reported it. If you are upgrading from Vim 5.x, please look out for problems you run into.
Vim 6.0 is mostly backwards compatible, but not 100%. Check out ":help
version6" for known incompatibilities. If you find a problem that can be
solved, please report it to me. Details about changes since the first beta can be found in these messages:
6.0aqhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messa
6.0arhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messa
6.0ashttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messa
6.0athttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messa
6.0auhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messa
6.0avhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messa
6.0awhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messa
6.0axhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messa
------------ Vim is an almost 100% compatible version of the UNIX editor Vi. Many new
features have been added: Multi level undo, syntax highlighting, command line
history, filename completion, block operations, etc. Those who don't know Vi
can probably skip this message, unless you are prepared to learn something new
and useful. Vim is especially recommended for editing programs. Vim runs on almost any Unix flavor, MS-DOS, MS-Windows 3.1, MS-Windows
95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP, OS/2, Atari MiNT, BeOS, VMS, RISC OS, Macintosh and
Amiga. For more information, see http://vim.sf.net. New since version 5.8
--------------------- The number of changes is huge. These are just the main new items: Folding - momentarily hide part of the text
Vertically split windows - mixed with horizontal splits
Diff mode - show and remove differences between files
Easy Vim: click-and-type - for those who really don't like two modes
User manual - learn to use Vim, reads like a book
Flexible indenting - automatic indenting for any language
Extended search patterns - more regexp power than you will need
UTF-8 support - Unicode allows editing nearly all languages
Multi-language support - translated messages and menus
Plugin support - drop a script in a directory and you can use it
Filetype plugins - an easy way to setup for editing a type of file
File browser - browse directories, also on a terminal
Editing files over a network - read and write a remote files directly
command-line editing window - use any Vim command to edit an Ex command
Debugging mode - debug your Vim functions and scripts
Cursor in virtual position - edit tables and draw ASCII pictures
Debugger interface - use Vim with Sun Visual Workshop
Communication between Vims - let one Vim tell another Vim what to do
Printing - print with syntax colors
Quickfix extended - see error messages in a window and jump there
Writing files improved - rename or copy to make a backup file
Argument list - select groups of files to work on
Restore a View - save the looks of a window and restore it later
Color schemes - quickly switch between different color setups See this page for the details: http://vim.sf.net/htmldoc/version6.html Where to get it
--------------- Information about which files to download for what system: http://vim.sf.net/download.php If you already know what to get, download it from here: ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unreleased Or use one of the mirrors, see: ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/MIRRORS Mailing lists
------------- For user questions you can turn to the Vim mailing list. There are a lot of
tips, scripts and solutions. You can ask your Vim questions, but only if you
subscribe. See http://www.vim.org/mail.html. An archive is kept at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vim. If you want to help developing Vim or get the latest patches, subscribe to
the vim-dev mailing list. An archive is kept at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev. Subject specific lists:
Multi-byte issues: vim-multibyte http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vim-multibyte
Macintosh issues: vim-mac http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vim-mac Reporting bugs
-------------- Send them to . Please describe the problem precisely. All the
time spent on answering mail is subtracted from the time that is spent on
improving Vim! Always give a reproducable example and try to find out which
settings or other things influence the appearance of the bug. Try starting
without your own vimrc file: "vim -u NONE -U NONE". Try different machines
if possible. See ":help bugs" in Vim. Send me a patch if you can! If something needs discussing with other developers, send a message to the
vim-dev mailing list. You need to subscribe first. Happy Vimming!
Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
...use cat and od
Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes
"Anyone who tells you differently is either wrong, lying, or criminally insane."
:)
You forgot "selling something."
... is at SourceForge. IMHO these pages are better organized and more helpful than the stuff on vim.org. Obviously not always up to date though, as the front page does not yet reflect the 6.0 release. :-|
in my day, we didnt have no fancy-shmancy editors, we used pico, and we liked it.
Don't Tread on Me
as a novice linux user I ask what is the difference between Vi And EMACS. I don't want to hear your opinion, but feature wise what is the difference?
No flames please.
Photos.
in editing mode
attempt to quit after mistake
my cron tab won't run
All I can figure is that the Slashdot coders have made some sort of change and want to see if the crap filter can take a huge load or not. Batten down the hatches! It's destructive testing time! The only explination I can find for this topic at least.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
When not using Notepad to peck out the occasional .asp file, I use Vigor. Now in version Pi! Of course, Vigor is the best text editor in the world!
Emacs has had a vi-emulation mode for ages. Has anyone done an emacs emulation mode for vim?
Don't expect great new features in a next version. Vim has grown into a complex program with so many features and options that there is nobody who uses them all. Stability and easy of use are the main goals for the future.
I'm not a vi user, and this isn't intended to start a flame war, but it's nice to see vim sticking by it's one of it's principles - making a lightweight editor.
Bah - Emacs is already at version 20. Clearly this means Emacs is 333% better than vim!
Wait, you mean version numbers aren't a measure of quality? Dang!
I've used the original vi for as long as I can remember, but I absolutely cannot stand vim. After toying with it for a few minutes, and realizing the ^O command didn't work in input mode, i then tested the :q! function, which did infact work.
Use elvis. It's just a better editor.
--
#nohup cat
OK, I _know_ this will most likely mod me down, but... I use Pico, and I like it just fine. I will admit that I have and still do use Vi from time to time, but for most things, Pico is simple and easy enough for a newbie (like me) to use. Thank you.
------
Random, useless fact: I type in startx entirely with my left hand.
Use Nedit!
For those of us who use emacs, there's a great simulation available of the vi experience. (Check out the parent directory of that URL for more of the same)
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
oh, I forget. emacs doesn't need new versions.
This post was compiled with `% gec -O`. email me if you need the sources
Lameass lameness filter. GAY
What, me worry?
I Will Say What NoOne Else Will::
PICO IS THE BEST!!!!!
.sig wanted: Must be concise, funny, and display my cleverness.
now we get to stir up the editor wars and the distro wars.
This keeps up, and I'll have a reason to be at war with just about everyone I run into.
Time to call a time-out.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I am shocked and amazed that anyone would still use these unix tools that don't have a Tip of the Day and pretty cut and paste buttons!
:-)
Vim has pretty cut'n'paste buttons, and you can write a Vim macro to automatically load a random help file on startup.
-Vic
Because:
Vim users code well enough to not require sanity
checking.
Vim users know how to make wordwrap work.
Vim users know how use regular expressions, while
pico kiddies keep making faces.
Vim, is little, yellow, different.
I use Vim, cause I am awesome. Don't you want to
be awesome too?
Vi is included with almost EVERY unix flavor/distro under the sun.
Vim/Vi users dont whine like some people..
"wheres pico on this system?!"
Taco is right, Emacs people suck. Pico people suck. Need we say more!?
I still stand by WordPerfect 5.1 (Change font = Ctrl+Alt+ScrLock+PageDown+Fe+F6+F12+~+X), or Edlin... The preferred Text Editor amongst Sado-Masochists.
"Of course everyone knows that vim is the best text editor in the world. Anyone who tells you differently is either wrong, lying, or criminally
insane. (Or an emacs user, in which case they are wrong, lying and criminally insane)."
Please, CmdrTaco, have some respect for different opinions. Many people like Vi/Vim, many people like Emacs/Xemacs. I personally have used and continue to use both for various things. I find vi great for editing configuration files and quick alterations to programs. I like xemacs for larger development and manual HTML editing.
Choices are good, and we should support that. My hope is that you were being sarcastic, but it sure sounded like you have an incredible distaste for Emacs, and thought anyone who used it must be an absolute idiot.
Use the right tool for the right job, and respect others' opinions as to which tool goes along with which job.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
Everyone should know that CygnusED is the One True Editor. All the power you need, newbie friendly UI without sacrificing power for gurus, scripting ability through Arexx, and keyboard shortcuts that actually make sense. Could someone PLEASE port it to UNIX and Windows? Pretty please?
READY.
#
ironically, I just got this as a fwd today...seems appropriate given taco's insanity comments:
1. At lunch time, sit in your parked car with sunglasses on and point a hair dryer at passing cars. See if they slow down.
2. Page yourself over the intercom. Don't disguise your voice.
3. Every time someone asks you to do something, ask if they want fries with that.
4. Put your garbage can on your desk and label it "in"
5. Put decaf in the coffee maker for 3 weeks. Once everyone has gotten over their caffeine addictions, switch to expresso.
6. In the memo field of all your checks, write "for sexual favors".
7. Finish all your sentences with "in accordance with the prophecy."
8. Don't use any punctuation marks
9. As often as possible, skip rather than walk.
10. Ask people what sex they are. Laugh hysterically after they answer.
11. Specify that your drive-through order is "to go".
12. Sing along at the opera.
13. Go to a poetry recital and ask why the poems don't rhyme.
14. Put mosquito netting around your work area. Play a tape of jungle sounds all day.
15. Five days in advance, tell your friends you can't attend their party because you're not in the mood.
16. Have your coworkers address you by your wrestling name, Rock Hard Kim.
17. When the money comes out the ATM, scream "I won!", I won!" "3rd time this week!!!!!"
18. When leaving the zoo, start running towards the parking lot, yelling "run for your lives, they're loose!!"
19. Tell your children over dinner "due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you go."
Juiced? Or Not?
If I wanna use vi, I can fire up vi mode on emacs. And remember what Linus Torvalds said about linux: it's the GNU-emacs of terminal emulators. What would the vi of terminal emulators be? I don't know, but it would be a lot closer to a terminal emulator. And anything written in LISP is cooler than anything written in C!
From: patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti)
Subject: The True Path (long)
Date: 11 Jul 91 03:17:31 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,alt.slack
When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi *and* Emacs are just too damn slow. They print useless messages like, 'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'. So I use the editor that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.
Ed, man! !man ed
ED(1) UNIX Programmer's Manual ED(1)
NAME
ed - text editor
SYNOPSIS
ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ]
DESCRIPTION
Ed is the standard text editor.
---
Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first alphabetically, but because it's the standard. Everyone else loves ed because it's ED!
"Ed is the standard text editor."
And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair. Just look:
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 24 Oct 29 1929 /bin/ed /usr/ucb/vi /usr/bin/emacs
-rwxr-xr-t 4 root 1310720 Jan 1 1970
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990
Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed. Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!
"Ed is the standard text editor."
Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed:
golem$ ed
?
help
?
?
?
quit
?
exit
?
bye
?
hello?
?
eat flaming death
?
^C
?
^C
?
^D
?
---
Note the consistent user interface and error reportage. Ed is generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm the novice with verbosity.
"Ed is the standard text editor."
Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.
ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!
When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!! Not a "viitor". Not a "emacsitor". Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!
TEXT EDITOR.
When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their "edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi? No. Emacs? Surely you jest. They chose the most karmic editor of all. The standard.
Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on. If you are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!
?
Carousel is a lie!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
A vi emulation mode is perfectly in keeping with the emacs philosophy: I made it part of the editor because it was there.
An emacs emulation mode makes no sense in vi, because it is not in keeping with the radical vi philosophy of "this is something to edit text with."
Slashdot 's editors are dickheads
Text editors are for wimps!! I use a very small magnet to write my files. and CMOS when I'm feeling up to it..
- This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along, move along..
I recently installed a linux distro on a new hard drive. Imagine my surprise when I open up a config file in vi and (gasp) it was in color! The horror! I quickly turned off the monitor and haven't touched that computer since. Someday perhaps I will gather the courage to turn the monitor on again, but not anytime soon!
Color text files! [[[shudder]]]
I open the browser, type www.slashdot.org in, hit enter and what do I see? VIM 6.0 is out! What the heck ? Is this freshmeat?
There is no "best" text editor.
Use what best suits the type of work and user preferences.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
Real hackers write their own. Why let someone else reinvent the wheel when you can do it for yourself?
:-)
:-(
Anyone who thinks I'm kidding, I'll (probably) have my editor available open source sometime in the next few months.
Seriously, my biggest gripe with editors these days is not configurability or scriptability or any of the other myriad kitchen sinks that have been bolted together to form whatever package you prefer. It's unnecessary complexity. I know exactly what features I use, exactly what I don't, and I haven't found the editor that works 100% for me. So I'm doing it myself. And if it suits no-one else in the world, that's just fine. It's not really that hard to write an editor, anyway. The hard part is making a nice UI that's portable between Win/Linux/Solaris/AIX.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
Pico all the way! :)
(no sarcasm intended)
"Real programmers consider what you see is what you get to be just as bad a concept in software as it is in women. Real programmers want a "You asked for it, you got it" editor. Powerful. Dangerous. unforgiving. TECO, to be precise.
TECO takes the concepts of VI even further. Long live TECO!
Yeah, what is Taco trying to do. Linux distros, window managers, browsers, even operating systems are fine to bicker about, but everyone knows not to talk about religion, politics, and which editor is better. But since we are, VI(M) rocks and Emacs isn't an editor, it's a way of life, and I'm just not ready to make that step....
P.S. i.e. should be used when you want to say "that is", e.g. means "for example"...sorry just annoying
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -Homer Simpson
While I'm a diehard Vim user, I expect a similar announcement when the next Emacs version comes out.
Best Slashdot comment ever
I wanna test out this puppy, but there are only FTP mirrors listed and the firewall here isn't cooperating. Any HTTP mirrors?
:)
hawk
I don't see what the big deal is. I've been able to do all those things with emacs several years ago (some probably a decade ago). I also hope the network editing isn't just limited to the insecure FTP. I like being able to edit files and run compiles over the network with ssh/scp using emacs with the tramp lisp module.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Nice anti-emacs rant, Taco. You also mentioned you're impressed that vim can now edit files via ftp. Well, let's take a look at the emacs changelog...
GNU Emacs NEWS -- history of user-visible changes. 17-Aug-1988
[snip]
Changes in version 18.52.
[snip]
** Visiting remote files.
On an internet host, you can now visit and save files on any other
internet host directly from Emacs with the commands M-x ftp-find-file
and M-x ftp-write-file. Specify an argument of the form HOST:FILENAME.
Since standard internet FTP is used, the other host may be any kind
of machine and is not required to have any special facilities.
So, emacs has been doing this for 13 years. You whining about how emacs users are crazy is like a Windows user in 1995 insulting Mac users, who had at the time been using the neat new Win95 features since 1984.
:)
hawk
Here the main us mirror site as vim.org is in Germany http://ftp.us.vim.org/vim/
But know what does 'vi' actually mean?
very interactive?
versus imacs?
voice input?
vivace irish?
--
Karma 50, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.
Ye gods -- BBEdit has been able to do that for YEARS! On Emacs, I routinely open files by tunnelling from my laptop, to my server, to another server and open the files remotely that way -- tunnelling through ssh, telnet, or a combination of the two -- (check out TRAMP -- a lovely bit of wonderfullness).
But now that VIM has it?!?! It's a freakin' BREAKTHROUGH!
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
My favorite new vim feature is :hardcopy.
This feature lets you save to postscript (or print) versions of your file that look just like what's on the screen, including syntax highlighting. No more need to screw around with a2ps or enscript when you want to pretty-print code. Very nice. Thanks to Bram et al.
And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners.
Berke Breathed
Of course! How could I have so blindly worshipped Vi, when Ed is clearly the best? All hail Ed!!
more productive. :-)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
For web projects I use Quanta. It's definitely on par with Windows web editors like Allaire Homesite - I highly recommend it.
Some of us use the GUI as more than just a place to put 47 xterm windows, you know.
(reprinted without permission)
/bin/ed
/usr/ucb/vi
/usr/bin/emacs
When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi
*and* Emacs are just too damn slow. They print useless messages like,
'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'. So I use the editor
that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.
Ed, man! !man ed
ED(1) UNIX Programmer's Manual ED(1)
NAME
ed - text editor
SYNOPSIS
ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ]
DESCRIPTION
Ed is the standard text editor.
---
Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first
alphabetically, but because it's the standard. Everyone else loves ed
because it's ED!
"Ed is the standard text editor."
And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair. Just look:
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 24 Oct 29 1929
-rwxr-xr-t 4 root 1310720 Jan 1 1970
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990
Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed.
Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog
message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K;
and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!
"Ed is the standard text editor."
Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed:
golem> ed
?
help
?
?
?
quit
?
exit
?
bye
?
hello?
?
eat flaming death
?
^C
?
^C
?
^D
?
---
Note the consistent user interface and error reportage. Ed is
generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm
the novice with verbosity.
"Ed is the standard text editor."
Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.
ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED
AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS
BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN
SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!
When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless
help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!!
Not a "viitor". Not a "emacsitor". Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED!
ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!
TEXT EDITOR.
When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their
"edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi? No. Emacs? Surely
you jest. They chose the most karmic editor of all. The standard.
Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on. If you
are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should
not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE
SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE
FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!
Poor, poor, deprived linux people. Us dos/windows users have been enjoying this "revolutionary funtionality" since about DOS 6.0. Hehe. Editing files over FTP, syntax highlighting.. poor, poor linux users.
Either you don't know English well, or you are autistic, and in either case you should not be posting on Slashdot.
I can use vim 6.0 to create a website that disparages vim 6.0 and vim.org without having to worry about violating the license.
Yet one more way this is free as in speach.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
XEDIT, available for Unix as uni-XEDIT. Blows the toys away ...
Snagged from the front page of vim.org:
:-)
Vim-6 is out! rah rah rah!
And here is what Bram said in his announcement:
From: Bram Moolenaar
To: vim-dev@vim.org
Subject: Vim version 6.0 available!
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:22:57 +0200
Message-Id:
Well, there it is. More than a year after Vim 6.0a Alpha.
It's about time we get a full release!
There are a few bug fixes since 6.0ax, I don't expect them to
cause new trouble. The XIM problems have not really been solved,
but I didn't want to postpone the 6.0 release any further.
Hopefully the hack I included will make it work for most people.
I'll announce it to a larger audience
when the mirror sites have catched up.
Thanks to all the people who helped making Vim 6.0 what it is now.
Either by sending me patches and Vim scripts or just reporting tiny
problems. Vim wouldn't be the same without your contribution!!!
What next?
Next week I'm going to visit the project in Uganda. In November I have
another holiday planned. In between I'll try to fix the most important
bugs that are reported. Anything else will have to wait for a while.
Don't expect great new features in a next version. Vim has grown into a
complex program with so many features and options that there is nobody who
uses them all. Stability and easy of use are the main goals for the future.
I'm not sure what the AC who posted the above was trying to prove, but that work certainly wasn't original. It's from a column in yesterday's Washington Post by a man named Michael Kelly.
Here's a link to the original: Pacifist Claptrap
Vigor has a paper clip.
This may be old, but it was new to me:
"Emacs is a great operating system - if only it came with a decent text editor."
** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**
Calling emacs one big monolithic program is only true if you couldn't peel off the layers of LISP code that you may not require. It'd be like calling Linux bloated because it comes with ALL the GNU tools.
...say I am criminally insane! I regularly consult M-x doctor thankyou very much! ;)
flame on with your bad self. ftp editing is new? you guys must live in the bronze age.
emacs has had 'ange-ftp' for a long time now. :)
We even have 'tramp' for scp.
Not to mention mpg123-mode for playing mp3s.
Nyah nyah.
I'd like to point out that one of the
big pro-vi arguments in the vi vs. emacs
holy war is that vi is a text editor, and only
a text editor. (That's about the only argument
in favor of vi that I accept.) So any
self-respecting vi user surely wouldn't be
caught dead using vim if it has FTP capabilities.
If i had about 5 more fingers and a couple more toes I might give emacs another shot.
If you're downloading, use a mirror. The list is available here.
/. effect, here are some mirrors for you to try:
In case the server is still under the
ftp://ftp.home.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.au.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.be.com/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.ca.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.de.vim.org/misc/editors/vim/
ftp://ftp.berlin.de.vim.org/misc/editors/vim/
ftp://ftp.musin.de/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.dk.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.es.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.fr.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.fr2.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.gr.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.hu.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.jp.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.tokio.jp.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp2.jp.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.kr.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.mx.vim.org/
ftp://ftp.nl.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp2.nl.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.pl.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.ci.uminho.pt/pub/editors/vim/
ftp://ftp.za.vim.org/applications/editors/vim/
ftp://ftp.ca.us.vim.org/pub/vim/
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/unixfreeware/editors/vim/
ftp://ftp.nasa.us.vim.org/pub/unix/vim
ftp://ftp.mi.us.vim.org/mirrors/vim/
ftp://ftp.ny.us.vim.org/editors/vim/
ftp://ftp.il.us.vim.org/packages/vim/
ftp://ftp2.wa.us.vim.org/pub/vim/
If i want console editing, i always use joe. I cannot accept that i have to press a special key before i can insert/append some text. And also, the delete method in vi is awful. And more, joe feels better than vi on strange terminals. When i can (X available) i use nedit.
Everyone forgets the classics.
Sigh.
I use vigor every day. Config files, HTML, plain text, mail, remote shell...anything
Vigor leads me step by step and it's always right
Lot's of improvements (i.e. you can edit files via FTP!)
from the emacs documentation:
You can refer to files on other machines using a special file name syntax:
/host:filename
/user@host:filename
When you do this, Emacs uses the FTP program to read and write files on the specified host. It logs in through FTP using your user name or the name user. It may ask you for a password from time to time; this is used for logging in on host.
Normally, if you do not specify a user name in a remote file name, that means to use your own user name. But if you set the variable ange-ftp-default-user to a string, that string is used instead. (The Emacs package that implements FTP file access is called ange-ftp.)
You can entirely turn off the FTP file name feature by setting the variable file-name-handler-alist to nil.
You forgot to mention a program called vigor.
its a word processor, huge difference.
Well, that's easy to say, but emacs has had ftp editing for at least 4 years (probably much longer). In my exeperience, it's been more powerful and more customizable than vi has been (and I learned vi first, yes).
Subjective issues aside, what does vi do that emacs doesn't? The only thing I've ever heard that I believe is that it loads faster.
Erm, I finally get a Slashdot account, and set my preferences to only read +4 comments, and I'M still deluged with useless, crap posts like this one from ByteHog.
His post is neither funny nor informative, and yet it's +5
Try ncftp. I've had it work through firewalls when regular ftp wouldn't. Something to do with passive/active ftp.
Well my favorite editor is CmdrTaco, followed closely by Hemos. Krow does a good job too. JonKatz is way too bloated and old fasioned for my tastes.
Ha! Made you all look! That is definately one way to be flamed to oblivion...mention notepad in a vi/emacs editor holy war. w00t! w00t! vi rocks!
If I were a pokemon I'd be vigglypuff, I would live to vanquish picochu.
sorry but ee rules. and i'll explain why,
type vi. i bet you used at least 2 fingers didn't ya???
type emacs. i bet you user 5 fingers for that monster.
type ee. ahhh efficient. one finger. it's fast, easy and works beautifully.
lol!
i saw a signature someone had the other day, it made me laugh..
Emacs is a nice os, but it lacks a good text editor. thats why i use vim
heh ok l8s all
-xEN
n0carrier.net
Interesting tidbits
o/~ Join us now and share the software
Steve Oualline's book "Vi IMproved--Vim" is pretty good both as an introduction to vi, and to the vim-specific things as well. It's also released under the Open Publication License.
Whenever you walk by a computer and see someone using pico, be kind. Pause for a second and remind yourself that:
"There, but for the grace of God, go I."
-- Harley Hahn
"and, of course, on UNIX in a lot of flavours:
A/UX, AIX, BSDI, Convex, DYNIX/ptx, DG/UX, DEC Unix, FreeBSD, HPUX, Irix, Linux [Debian, RedHat, Slackware, SuSE,..."
Linux != Unix
vi is like unix, while emacs is like windows: yes, there's a GNU operating system, although it's not the so-called GNU/Linux [1]. Emacs is an operating system that tries to do everything you could possibly conceive of. Vi edits.
GNU/Linux would be like a tire and engine with no body, steering, seats, frame, etc. It's not until you include the rest of the stuff like perl, X, bsd stuff, etc. that you get what we normally call "Linux" and that you're able to get any work done.
ob flame: besides, a large portion of emacs user move beyond the heresy of emacs and get arrested for unnatural acts with goats
L
hawk
And for those of us who use vi, you can write a simple shell script to load up vi, eat up 20 megs of memory, and segfault, which will perfectly emulate the emacs experience.
It is a fact that emacs makes you insane. But in addition to being a great editor, it is also a psychotherapist! just run "M-x doctor" at the end of every long coding session and you will be back to humanity in no time!
Or smoking crack like CmdrTaco.
Haven't we learned from the distro wars yet that saying one editor is better then another is asking for trouble?
I've used pico all my UNIX life. Frankly, so does the rest of my staff because its simple, quick, and just works. No fluff, just a text editor which does its job.
Joe is another nice full featured editor too.
Brielle
please!
Because you're on the wrong site to do that. Try k5.
:)
-Waldo
But how would someone go about Learning ViM? For the five years I've been using linux I've been using PICO. I'm digging through ViM now and beginning the download. I'm hoping for a tutorial or a very descriptive readme on interface.
Well, aside from the fact that Emacs is a far superior editor, it should also be noted that vim is not free software (even though it somehow managed to weazel its way into Debian main).
Besides Emacs can emulate vim, can vim do the other way round?
The more I hear about the many "features/modules" of Emacs/XEmacs the more I want to dowload and try it out, seems to me that it is not "monolithic", but rather customizable to the point of a development evironment you do nopt have to leave, most of the time, that is for those of us who prefer the console style environment. And I am thinking this coming from four years of using straight vi/vim.
Is a Sig really an expression of the person behind the post or just random nonsense?
then Windows 2000 must be absolutely fantastic.
Therefore, no matter what you use on a regular basis, you should still learn how to use vi.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
Truth be told, I started out as a vi bigot. EMACS was Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping, and I was constantly killing hung emacs processes left by my tcsh-using sidekick... (dammit, when the shell exits, it should bloody well SIGHUP the children... but that's another holy war...) And then there was the night I spent trying to upgrade my then-boss' personal AIX box. I ran out of DASD and it marked the kernel "broken" by mistake. A little RTFM on his partner's machine, fire up emacs, fix the LPP database the hard way, and the boss gets to work to find he's able to read an email timestamped 4-something-am instead of to find a busted machine. The rest has been a ten-year gradual slide into the world of auto-fill-mode, emerge, and find-file-other-window... yes, I still use vi for the occasional "quickie" editing task, and I don't disparage those who insist on only using it to the point of narfing a Win32 binary of vim or elvis... that's their choice, they're entitled to it, and I don't think it's wrong.
I would like to say, though, that given the fact that I've become an emacs user, and that some pseudo-Muslim fanatics have dared cause mass mayhem on American soil, and that some other pseudo-Christian fanatics have dared use xenophobia as an excuse for those attacks, I'm not surprised to see the Head Slashdotter trolling on his own front page. Whether or not his comment was in jest, it says a lot more about him than it does about me... and what it says is not very nice.
What a previous poster said: One war at a time, Taco.
We now return you to something vaguely resembling Stuff That Matters.
Thank you!
--MarkusQ
You're quite right. I don't know why you got modded down for this (Offtopic?); I suppose it's just another example of the old adage "Those that don't remember history are doomed to misuse mod points."
-- MarkusQ
haha bastards niether vim or emacs can beat pico!!!
...of a fortune I saw (can be found in the "linux" file in the fortune package):
:x :wq dang it :w:w:w :x ^C^C^Z^D
vi is [[13~^[[15~^[[15~^[[19~^[[18~^ a
muk[^[[29~^[[34~^[[26~^[[32~^ch better editor than this emacs. I know
I^[[14~'ll get flamed for this but the truth has to be
said. ^[[D^[[D^[[D^[[D ^[[D^[^[[D^[[D^[[B^
exit ^X^C quit
-- Jesper Lauridsen from alt.religion.emacs
I love pico a lot more than vim or emacs. beutiful
Joy says "EMACS is a nice editor too, but because it costs hundreds of dollars, there will always be people who won't buy it."
Interesting that Emacs was too expensive. I think GNU Emacs came out in 1985, and the interview was in 1984, so he must have been talking about Gosling/Unipress Emacs.
Wonders how much the Cmdr has been paid for this ...
advertisement
Though i confess and agree.
I use nothing but vi to edit files and it's the best.. so call me a salesman too , or a preacher
but this is a release i just downloaded and
ill install it as soon as im done writing
criminal insanities : )
( that will be what them Emacs user will think )
lol Good news for us , bad news for them
gunzip -c > executable
That way you don't have to do nearly as much typing.
Or an emacs user, in which case they are wrong, lying and criminally insane
Hey wait! We may be lying and criminally insane, no doubt about it, but we ain't wrong!
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Did everyone's humor gland become inflamed and have to be surgically removed? Can't take a joke? It was obviously meant to poke fun at pepole who take these things WAY too seriously. It was funny! Get over it!
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
First there was ed. Ed was a line oriented editor but people wanted to extend ed and then was born ex. Ex was better, but people wanted a visual mode to ex so was created the vi editor command. The visual mode became primary and ex was made secondary and thus was born vi. Vi was powerful, but people wanted to improve vi and so was born vim. Vim was vi improved, but ...
People who use something other than vi(especially people who use emacs) have no sense of humor what-so-ever :)
M-x crush-vi-and-its-mutant-offspring-ha-ha-ha
I've always liked TextPad myself. Of course, it's *cough* windows only. *cough*
www.textpad.com
Just kidding.
OK, I see some analogies here:
FreeBSD vs. Linux. Common enemy: Windows
Mutt vs. Pine. Common enemy: Outlook
Vi vs. Emacs. Common enemy: Word
Every time I see someone editing code in Word,
I want to smack them upside the head.
Use whatever suits you. Vim does the thing for me. I don't need mouse controlled windows under X.
Did you know that Pico has spell-checking capability? Hit CTRL-T. :-)
I used to be a big Pico fan too. It's still a great editor for anyone who is just learning UNIX, or needs to get a job done quickly without learning a whole new editor.
-Vic
....notepad.exe has been doing editing via ftp for about 4 years now i think .
I've always used Jed .
It can emulate most features of emacs, but it's a lot smaller a faster. Functions are programmed in Slang, a very simple language. Slang looks like interpreted C language with a lot of handy hooks for strings manipulation and text display.
Also, Jed works on a lot of platforms, including all variants of Unix, VMS and Windows.
{{.sig}}
Has anyone gotten vim (gvim) to work in OS X (aqua, not just console)? I've seen screenshots at vim.org ( http://macosx.sage-tech.net/screens/vim-shot1.jpg ) but havent seen a place to download the binary. I also see no configuration option for it in vim 6's ./configure.
Any ideas?
Geoffeg
He's just upset because he missed "Enterprise" last night. Someone send him a tape of the show and he'll be right as rain again in no time.
Well there is this:
Coffee.el" for submitting a BREW request to a RFC-2324 compliant coffee maker.
There is kitchensink.el around here somewhere too ... :-)
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Vi is a groovy text editor. EMACS is the finest OS ever known to man.
HTH!
--
You sure got a purty mouth...
Okay, that's weird. I would have sworn that post was uncredited. I even went on a hunt to find where I had read it. Clearly, I was mistaken about that and offer my apology to the AC who made the post in the first place.
Text editor? Who needs a text editor when you have cat, head, tail, cut, sed, and a shell? Ya some kind of sissy or something?
Polish sites, .pl the Perl extension, pl is great. Words that start with pl
Play
Plug
Plastic
Plus
Port
aren't they great?
I'm trolling aren't I?
Question everything.
Thank you Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky the Fourth
Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky the Fourth
I tried vim and emacs to see what all the fuss was about. But neither of them has that cute little paperclip figure with eyes that can always figure out exactly what you want to do! Are there still people using editors that don't have it?
The word "lots" does not have an apostrophe in it, Mr. Taco, sir.
Can I take it that VI 6 doesn't have a punctuation checker then?
graspee
After you type for awhile, a little talking toilet pops up and informs you that what you have written is crap. And then flushes it.
All I want is an editor with a nice
bidirectionl support.
Hopefully, one day there will be
an annoucement in:
http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/emacs-bidi/
Or someone will pick
http://fribidi.sourceforge.net/
and use it to make simple but workable editor.
looks nice, but too many toys. I just stick with plain old vi anyway. I don't know why I would want to edit files over FTP, if I needed to edit something remotely, FTP would probably be the last protocol I would want to use...
Ignorant moderator, I was referring to the vi clone, elvis.
You are a dufus. Probably one of the damn editors, who doesn't quite get the concept of AC's posting at (score:0).
It was a JOKE. Loosen up!
VIM? That's too nice. I prefer a non-visual editor whose commands look like line noise on an old TTY: Text Editor and COrrector.
TECO was character based, but you could put some really cool macros in it. It was the true editor of the literati in its day (on PDP-11 processors, that is...). There is still a soft place in my head for it...
I guess this is like the whole linux-now-has-stateful-firealling thing...
Pedro Côrte-Real.
No, it's what real men use to get work done while the kiddies keep on adding missing functionality to their toy-editors.
Sure it was. In that case, i was joking too.
I was happily getting used to using vim on Window$ over the last few weeks. Although, just because of that I think I'll change to emacs.
Didn't taco post a story about "why linux and open source will fail" and blamings on people having flame wars.
The more I hear for CT the more I think the open source community could do without half bit journist like that....OH! sorry I didn't mean to offend any half bit journist out there.!
M0571y H@rml355.
VI VI VI: The Editor of The Beast!
--
Intelligence is definitely a recessive trait.
Emacs President Shrub today announced a new iniative in the war on user-friendlyness; Operation Infinite Swapspace.
This can be seen as a direct response to vi's recent attacks on Emacs functionality when a flock of rabid vi supporters chanted "vi don't suck, vi is leet, vi can edit in ftp!" outside the Emacs embassy in Kaboom, capital of Afarawayistan.
An Emacs representative commented the attack with "Those evil vi-llains will do anything to confuse the issues. The fact is that Emacs can solve the Towers of Hanoi problem faster than a vi user can learn to save a file and this bugs the hell out of them since most of them don't even know where Hanoi is. We are going to find their leader /vigor/bin/laden and make him pay for this atrocity."
vigor himself just said that "Vi vill :q! them!"
The Piconian ambassador was not available for a // comment, but rumours has it that he's busy compiling evidence.
Money for nothing, pix for free
peace is hell
Superlatives are *the* most overrated thing.
You have received this message in error.
I apologize if this is redundant, but I didn't find any mention of it yet.
VIM has a charityware license. If you use VIM and like it, you can donate to the Kibaale Children's Centre, which helps orphans in Uganda. In VIM, type ":help iccf" to get more info, or go to ICCF's web site.
XEmacs in Viper mode. :) Best of both worlds. Vi's unbeatable key bindings, Emacs' unbeatable flexibility. As someone who likes both editors a lot, here's a little piece of advice to fanatics in both camps: try the other editor. It'll expand your horizons.
Not only that, I heard of a version of vi that acutally has something similar to Microsoft's PAPERCLIP!!! If you can imagine.
I forget the link, though, something about beans.
I'd be willing to be you could find it on http://www.google.com, though.
Jeez, get a clue before you post your claptrap, willya?
Coulnd't they have waited? This is just as big a release as kde 2.2.1 in my opinion!
-Pete
I believe it's spelled provocative.
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok
TECO
Where are the screenshots ??!!
PS Emacs rules!
"I like to wear big boy pants."
It's late, I've just got back from work, and right at this moment, I don't care. So I'll respond. It's only more productive because you don't know how to use vi properly
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
I gotta tell you, I like the editor wars because we finally get to see the *low* Slashdot UIDs come out of the woodwork. Just in a quick run-through, the lowest I've spotted was about 2100. I know someone with a UID around 16k (k = 1000 here, not 1024), but to see a 2k poster, that's a real treat! No joke.
To save the "ontopicness" of this post, I agree wholeheartedly with those who remind us that you should learn vi just in case you have to run a VERY minimal machine. If it has *anything*, it'll have vi.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Vim is charityware. If you respect author and his goals, send him some money. You have his personal guarantee that the money will be spent right.
You can use Paypal to send money to him, although it is not the preferred method. Postal money order is preferred.
:help iccf has all the info about that.
UID 279, baby.
Of course, I have nothing useful to add to the discussion. :P
fuck you, asshole :-)
:%s/.*//
wq!
that's all the vim you need to know.
If you want emacs to load quickly, simply use gnuclient(1). Load up emacs, background it, and everytime you want to edit something use gnuclient.
That's 'lying'.
vi is like masturbation. It's quick and always there but not always your first choice.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
But I always thought Vince Idiot created VI, not this Bill Joy bloke, what's Bill Joy ever done for society anyway? At least, this story claims Vince Idiot is the true father of VI :->.
Everyone *must* get Vigor, to really improve their computing experience (see link in original post).
I'm a software visionary. I don't code.
Debian users do so :)
It's a free software replacement for pico.
--exa--
You know why? Because ed is the standard text editor. It isn't bloated, it isn't visual.
:)
Yes, and my friend is a real programmer. Hello Berkant?
--exa--
Just thought I'd weigh into this holy war by mentioning WinVi. It's done by a German guy and is available in English, German, and Spanish. The design goals were to be identical to Notepad in a CUI sense, but still have vi functionality. It isn't a perfect vi implementation, but it has the majority of things you would need, and it's a great bridge to vi. If you've wanted to learn vi, but don't want to give up windows L&F, then it's a great choice. Oh and it loads as fast as notepad, and it's GPL'ed.
-no broken link
I couldn't believe it. It used the same stuff that (tedit?) used on my old TRS-80 color computer! Obviously the coco took its ideas (and code?) from vi, but it was really cool and nostalgic to actually know what I was doing with the editor in linux :)
DOpus, that was some kind of program, really powerful. I don't if it evolved to the point where it could send mail, though. :)
:)
I think the Amiga 1.3 shipped with some Emacs clone as well, I remember looking at the strange keyboard shortcuts, and went straight back to CED.
(Of course, nowadays I live in Emacs
Aee is smaller than vi or any of its clones, and one can use it without instructions. Very good for editing system files. Fits just fine on a single-disk Linux system.
Handles DOS-format files as well. Very important when you are developing an embedded product that runs DOS but are connected to it over a serial port running Linux, and you have no way to edit files other than dowloading them, editing them, then uploading them again.
Sound goofy? That's what my job is right now - developing an update to an embedded system running DOS (that way we don't have to rewrite the software). Aee is a lifesaver since I connect to 2 systems at once and use Linux and Minicom to do it (DOS can't).
Microsoft's VP of Customer Service is Helen Waite. If you are having problems with their products go to Helen Waite.
Amen from the highest fucking rooftops! Small executable, perfectly usable over ssh even on a dialup connection, and a completely customizable look and feel. Wonderful program.
Of course, it helps that I'm an old Wordstar fan. But if joe didn't exist, I'd probably be a pico fan. Maybe ae after pico.
there's also an win32 version of vim. i use it everyday for my vhdl coding.
my blog
In fact, as far as I know, emacs and emacs-derived editors are the *only* text editors with this feature.
Of course, that comes from the days when a mainframe typically had 16 MB of memory.
vi is a pretty sophisticated text editor.
emacs is an operating system thinly disguised as a text editor.
Out of the box, any system with emacs has pretty darn near to the same feature set as a new PC with a full install of Windows and MS Office. More, really. Windows doesn't ship with Zork, and Eliza carries a much better conversation than that damn paperclip.
vi is the only text editor you will ever need.
emacs is the only program you will ever need.
You can also run your mouse up to the "Files" menu and select "Exit Emacs".
Emacs has been able to emulate VI pretty completely for ages actually, in addition to actually doing real work. Just takes a single snippet of e-lisp.
(use-global-map (make-sparse-keymap))
There you go! Just like vi, it beeps every time you do anything, and you can't quit. :)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
On many platforms a font-change dialog is bound to Shift-Mouse1. You can also customize the default font programmatically. Here's one way, which I use to set the default font to 8-point Andale Mono:
;; other customizations ...
(custom-set-variables
'(default-frame-alist
(quote ((menu-bar-lines . 1)
(font . "-*-Andale Mono-normal-r-*-*-11-82-96-96-c-*-iso8859-1")))))
For other methods, check the manual.
Easy, automatic testing for Perl.
what is the big deal about which editor someone uses? Why can't we all just get along "Work smart, not hard"
Yes people we are back live with the age old war against the light and dark side, Is it Emacs ? or is VI ? (I know its VIM I dont give a flying f**K((BEEP)))
:)
You underestmate the power of the VI side MACS....
Emacs violates that philosophy. And the vi users hate that. Ok, that's fine. But a philosophy cannot be right or wrong. Get over it already.
Emacs has strengths, particularly as a programming tool. Integrated (and fully customizable) debugging. Version control (perhaps vi does this as well). Hex-editing mode. Automated compilation. And anything else you can think of: if it there isn't a ELISP module out there to do it already, someone can hack it together quite quickly.
If you stop thinking of Emacs as an editor, and begin thinking of it as a more comprehensive environment, it stops seeming outrageous. vi may be the best editor out there. But Emacs is the best integrated solution for complex environments.
I'll be damned.
The more you know, the less you understand.
http://saveie6.com/
Quoting an a/c here: "Emacs is a great operating system. It just comes with a shitty editor."
http://saveie6.com/
Just curious if people happen to know which editor the "masters" use.
I think I heard Linus uses microemacs.
I would guess that Bjarne uses vi since his errata is in s/a/b/ format.
(ok, pick your own masters if you want....)
vi is a powerful text editor, with scripting/automation capabilities.
emacs is a powerful scripting automation tool, with text editing capabilities, it was designed to be the only program you ever run. Its actually capable of being the only program you need, but if you already have an email program you like, you can stick with vi.
EscZZ
emacs won the war long ago against vi. vim is a different beast however. As someone said: emacs is a great operating system, but when I want to edit something I use vim. vim is still the best programmers editor. (Whish is what I use it for...) But personal preferences set aside. Some of the coolest things vim now has is vertical splitting, and code folding. It may or may not be true that emacs has had this for bilions and bilions!? of years, but that's not the issue... its just really useful stuff being added to the staple-code editor. My 0.02
I have compiled vim on a variety of systems (various Linux distros and Solaris, to be specific), and can't see how it would fail. It doesn't have a single external library dependency that I know of unless you want all that newfangled X11 stuff.
And UNLIMITED UNDO.
Title says it all. 3i6[escape]
You know, I just read a somewhat new book about debugging and the author recommends MSWord as a programmer's text editor. That's about when I dropped the book and ran.
>perfectly usable over ssh even on a dialup connection
:-) who use university networks.
I can't remember my last modem. Hell ISO downloads are in within 2 minutes (remote ones too). I even use mozilla over SSH.
I guess Emacs is for elite bastards like me
nosig today
Red Hat Linux RPMs are available here.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
how low can you go :)
... and recently I've been feeling old.
I think it's the lowest I've seen
nosig today
isn't VI 6 a pleonasm? VIM would not be logical in Roman counting. It would be XMIV.
You see, VI is from the Roman times.
nosig today
When vi and emacs came out, people said, "these are going to be the tools of the 20th century!"
I'd say their prediction has finally come true.
(Yes, you're right, this is flamebait a.k.a. dogma mocking).
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
As someone who's been stuck on a wyse term trying to rebuild files in single user mode, I had the unfortunate discovery that 'ed' in Solaris is not the same as 'ed' in MudOS.
From a few times of trying to push vi past its limits, I've found that 'ex' is much closer to the 'ed' in MudOS, and with the number of similarities, I'd assume may have even been the basis for MudOS's 'ed'.
[Now, if I could just get the functionality of MudOS 'sprintf' in perl, I'd be damned happy, as I hate doing columns/tables/etc.]
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
BBEdit definately rules the Mac landscape.
For those who need stuff like 'bold' and 'font sizes', I'd stick with WordPerfect 3.5 for Mac over Word. [But you're right... Word5.1Mac was the last good version...by 6.0 it was half bloat]
I'd rather load SimpleText than Word6.0Mac.
[Hell...I'd even be willing to go back to AppleWorks or ClarisWorks or whatever they're calling it these days]
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
I've actually sent suggestions to CowboyNeal to add a configurable option to turn off the editors comments on the front page stories.
Why should they escape moderation?
Ok, show of hands... how many people are seriously concerned about what editor CT uses, how he feels about Mac mice, or if he thinks everyone and their mother should be using apt-get?
Didn't think so.
Ok, now how many people are just interested in the stories or moderated user comments? Wouldn't you like to at least have the option to turn of the unmoderated prattle coming out of the editors?
but then again, commenting on a katz story is almost as self-serving as the katz story itself. -tensionboy
from JavaONE '98 Keynote
Long live VIM!!!James Gosling built the original Unix Emacs and was the primary creator of Java.
Read the transcript
I'm surprised no one (that I have seen) has mentioned text folding (:he folding) in vim 6.
To my mind it's one of the most useful improvements.
Please name this book so as to hold it up for public ridicule. MS Press books don't even go as far as to suggest something like that.
Dancin Santa
I agree with the BBEdit part... but I'd rather use pico than vi if I can't get access to the file through BBEdit. Why? Because I have more important things to do than waste brain cells on arcane vi or emacs commands.
That's right, mod me down because I said remembering that stuff was pointless and stupid. Yeah you. (Note: this is not directed at the person I'm replying to.)
But before you mod me down, I do have a point. That is that tools should be 1. apparent, 2. efficient, and 3. effective. (Add those three together to get elegant.) It doesn't take a fast food cook's brain to figure out what a hammer is good for. And I'm certain that you yourself have seen or are an example of a the kind of intellect that it takes to point an automobile and press the rubber pedals.
vi doesn't use ex as a backend. Rather, vi is a mode of ex. In fact, "vi" is just the shortest acceptable abbreviation for the "visual" command in ex. So you can use vi by starting ex and entering "vi" as a command, or "visual" or "vis" or some other prefix. And as newbies have long accidentally discovered to their dismay, the vi command mode "Q" command switches to ex mode.
It's the same executable, and neither ex nor vi is subordinate to the other.
I don't use VI. Don't flame me, but I use joe. It makes more sense.
...breathe the chaos in the midst of order...