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MS Zone Users Must Use Passport Accounts
pathos writes: "CNet reports in this article that Microsoft, in its continued obsession to get everyone and his/her mother to be a registered Passport user, forced all of it's MS Zone gaming site users (including players of 'Asheron's Call') to open accounts in Passport in order to keep using the service... too bad that a bug with their .NET deployment kept many users not being able to access the service..." Of course, if you run the hotel, you get to say who uses the pool ...
there goes my dream of being an Uber Mech Warrior, being Mech 3 & 4 the only games I own that require the 'zone.
Of course, if you run the hotel, you get to say who uses the pool...
Yeah, but you can't control who pees in it.
:)
Why can't users just act the same as they do with Hotmail? Open up separate accounts for different uses, most with false information that can't be tied back to you without a search warrant?
Resist, I say! Don't sign up for Passport!
Micros~1 can be stopped, but we all have to work together and resist!
Passport is essential to the Micros~1 plan for world domination. We can stop it by refusing to participate.
This thing scares me, really. How long will it be before every Windows user is required to have a Passport account before they can log into their workstation?
appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars
I refuse to allow Microsoft, a company which has been found to have shaky (at best) security practices, to protect my private information on their service. I refuse to allow Microsoft to control my computer with their draconian authentication scheme, which is just a ruse to bolster arbitrary numbers on their annual report. I refuse to purchase any products or services of the Microsoft Corporation.
I have decided to start boycotting the Microsoft. Please also start, if you care about your rights as a citizen of the 21st century.
For more information, click here.
Wouldn't be amusing if somebody registerred a generic account and released the name/password onto the public?
Maybe when MS sees 4 million people logged on as $L4$hd0t it'll realize that the people don't want to be uniquely identified in EVERYTHING they do.
"Derp de derp."
to change their infrastructure to support/require Passport like that? Are they being bribed?
Seriously. Everyone acts all indignant when MS does something like this. I hear you need to be a US Citizen to be able to vote in the US, too. How dare we force people to be citizens if we want them to take part in our government?
Yeah, I know it's a flawed arguement. But it's not that far off.
So when the XBox's online program comes out in 6 months, will the users have to do the same thing? I would assume so. Which is one of the reasons I will never get the XBox and why I shake my head at everyone that did. Tsk, tsk, tsk kids.
sin(6cos(r)+5A)
This just sounds like what I expect out of Microsoft. They take well trained engineers and lock them in a room with a bunch of computers to write a progam, and apparently in the labs its' rock solid. But once it is released into the wild, it doesn't work at all.
Seriously, though, this is a total disgrace and failure of service worthy of America Off-Line.
And people wonder why I hate big business....
Do you like Japanese imports?
I hate Microsoft as much as the next *nix guy, but this makes sense to me. If you're going to push a single account/password strategy, you need to implement it yourself first.
.NET and Passport. For myself, I'll just continue to choose not to use any Microsoft web services.
If you are going to use Microsoft web services, you have to get used to
Reverse that analogy about the pool:
If you're staying at my hotel, and swimming in my pool, I want your info.
But the whole point of passport was to provide a single continous logon throughout the MSN suite of web sites.
Why is Zone.com any different?
seriously. they (and other large companies) bought the government that they wanted, and now are proceeding with their agenda.
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
Actually, Sun has adopted Passport after Microsoft adopted Liberty Alliance. And if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you...
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Of course, it looks a little different if you consider things from a business perspective. If you're a company that has 7 different login and authentication systems for their wide array of services, and you could centralize that for cost savings, wouldn't you do it? I would.
The problem with Microsoft is that later down the line someone will say "we should use this massive pile of user data we've got to get volunteers to test our new free brain implants."
Not everything Microsoft does is evil, it's just usually the last thing that they do that turns everything they've done before evil.
...needs to be stopped b4 it is too late.
Actually, I think that's too small of scope for Microsoft -- they own several small 'countries' and if you want to stay overnight, you now have to stay in a MS Hotel (tm).
This is totally bogus. When are game manufacturers (in this case) going to realize that they don't have to give up this much control over their userbase? Microsoft could potentially steer users to THEIR games (and I'm sure in many cases already do). More companies need to invest in infrastructure and online services and MS's online empire will start to crumble -- but they need to act fast. Microsoft now has the potential to really have a strangle hold on customers: They now have email addresses (read: 'sales leads') for a BUNCH of folks.
Predictions:
Microsoft will block access to www.microsoft.com unless you have a Passport account.
When that happens, Slashdot will report it as 'news'.
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
I've never played any games in the "MS Zone" so I may be way off base here. I assume you have to have a "MS Zone" account to play the games, what's the big deal about having a passport account instead? Whether Microsoft wants to keep seperate logins to all of their services, or one login that works everywhere doesn't much seem to matter. I don't like the idea of MS pushing Passport as some internet wide login system, but for their own sites I think it makes sense (aside from the security holes).
I love Age of Kings, and playing on line is a trillion times better than playing the computer. Now I need a damn Passport account? That really blows.
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
Used to be a fairly regular player on the
GameZone pages, playing mostly chess and Risk.
Even got my rating in the chess areas higher than
my old USCF (United States Chess Federation)
rating was.
Bill, you just lost some more page views on your commercials.
BTW, What little I have seen of WinXP has been nothing but a whole lot more window-dressing to the UI of Win95, with the stability of WinNT. Win2k is used by me at home, but only 'cause it's a cross between Win98SE and WinNT. I find it no more innovative functionally than Win95, but it is a bit easier to use. Linux on the other hand, well, when Christmas is over, I'm going to get me a subscription to Transgaming's WineX.
That Microsoft would've been able to bridge the gap between their zone users and passport. Yahoo's been doing it for years, having one login to access all of their services. It just seems easier from the standpoint that you can access Microsoft's web properties using a common login. What concerns me is when this information starts being shared between alternative vendors... ie: eBay. I'd personally rather have an account setup for eBay with a different password than what I use for my hotmail email or play video games.
things may have gone smoother if they weren't running BETA software in a production environment, as one of their spokes-droids recently divulged.
I'm sure things will smooth out once this is reported on C .NET .com's news site.
Too bad getting a passport account is not as painful as getting an actual passport.
Ah, well.
.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
And if I violate the ToS for any Microsoft service, do I get my passport pulled so that I can no longer access my Hotmail account or anything else that requires it?
I know we've said this before, but whenever Passport allows access to everyone bank account and stock portfolio the Passport servers will the the target of every black-hat hacker on the planet. And you know that script kiddies will be blasting it constantly with DOS attacks.
I'm sure MS will have excuses for why it happened to, like published security holes and such. But it will be their fault for leaving so much critical information linked to one account.
-Xenopax
Not sure what the law says, but in CA, aliens vote all the time.
Fucking Article moderators, my roomate sent you news about this 2 weeks ago since he works for the damn ZONE as a MemberPlus room Moderator, but you damn queers just reject everything, fucking commie bastards, racist slashdot staff, you rejected his article because he is black....
"..but other companies have done it--Starbucks just switched their old log-in system to Passport and did it smoothly."
Hmmm... I bet an online gaming community is used quite a bit more than starbucks online site. What would you do with a starbucks account any way?
Yes but every time I try to see it your way, I get a headache.
This seems like it is merely Microsoft trying to get something to use their Passport systeme, since they cannot seem to sell it to any major service people are using. We should simply ignore their silly publicity tricks.
Sincerely yours,
Chloë
HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF
+MONDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+MONDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*
+TUESDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+TUESDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*
+WEDNESDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+WEDNESDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*
+THURSDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+THURSDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*
+FRIDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+FRIDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*
+SATURDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+SATURDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*
+SUNDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: Today is the Lord's day.
+SUNDAY AFTERNOON+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*
I have once signed up for the Zone and since then I keep receiving the MSN-"Newsletters", though I often said I didn't want them. Maybe this way they will sign me out and stop sending me Spam.
I used to do a lot of gaming over the zone a few years back. Was probably the only Microsoft service that I ever liked. Damn shame, now ill never use the Zone again. Anyone up for an Open Source solution to the Zone?
Here's a question for people to ponder. What happens if I violate the terms of service of Passport or any attached property of Microsoft? Or more to the point, what happens if Microsoft mistakenly thinks I did but I didn't (like if I was hacked, etc). It seems that as Passport is further extended, this has a greater and greater impact on my ability to do things on-line. What if my bank uses passport? What if I communicate with my doctor through a passport secured site? If I get booted from passport for whatever reason, there could be some serious personal ramifications, and there's noreal recourse for me because I clicked the little "I Accept" button.
I grant you this is a little out there and paranoid, but I think that if passport does become a very fundamental part of on-line authorization systems, this could become a potential problem
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Maybe if the Zone wasn't a slow, unstable, proprietary system that can only be accessed by loading up large amounts of laggy, mem-leaky software, it would be nice. But I guess Microsoft doesn't want *nix users to access the Zone, eh?
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
You too?
Ah well, I grew tired of having people bitch about me 'legging' mechs anyway. (MW3 I could see, but in MW4, it's actually one of the hardest things to do if you're fighting anyone with any sort of skill. Quick legging is still slower than quick torso-explosion. Perhaps not as quick with a lucky shot and cockpit explosion, but hey.)
I play to kill IS stravaghs anyway, not for Microsoft stats!
IS: Waah, stop legging me!
Me: Okay. *snip missile racks* *snipe arms* Can I leg you yet?
IS: Waah, why do you have to aim? Mechwarriors aren't supposed to aim and use tactics!
From the article:
"It's a difficult task, but other companies have done it--Starbucks just switched their old log-in system to Passport and did it smoothly."
"It's kind of surprising," Rosoff added. "If anyone should be able to implement a Passport switch, it's Microsoft."
That is hilarious: The staffers at a coffee house that, no doubt, keep MS programmers in caffinated beverages, can implement MS's own stuff better than MS can.
Ahaaahahaha.
Do you think maybe we should send MS some penguin mints? Oh, wait, belay that...probably most here would consider that aid and comfort to the enemy.
.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
This probably saves MS some money. They are currently evangelizing passport as a central repository for user information on the net, and it doesn't make sense for MS to use two different formats for saving user information, one for gamezone and then passport on top of that. Saving money this way is exactly what they want passport to be used for. Now, I for one, would like the heyday of anonymous browsing to continue forever, but I forsee a future where you have fewer and fewer options available to you on the internet without giving up at least some user information.
Considering that many people that I know and I use names like reg sucks and fuck off, I don't know how useful their stupid databases will be anyway. I hate having to register every time I want to get driver updates and such, and maybe when they see all this crap in their databases, they might wake up to the fact that many people don't like giving out personal information. If companies actually were responsible with the information, our phones wouldn't ring off the hook from telemarketers calling, and we wouldn't get so much junk mail. It's bad enough that entities like the government, who we must give proper information to, sell our information.
Of course. Passport is built nicely into XP. This will be their next step in taking over the world. Why not put it into something that is BUILT IN to Windows eXpect Problems? Programs => Games => Internet [Hearts,Checkers,Spades]
With the prospect of wireless access, we need something to identify us - but only when we decide to be identified and only to the person we decide to be identified to.
Think about this, you go around town with your laptop. You can connect to a wireless network of some type and shape. Now just like real life, you may be asked for your ID, or some sort of information that will identify yourself to the person or business asking. If you refuse - you don't get what you want either. So lets take this same idea into 'cyberspace' - and don't REQUIRE yourself to be ID'ed
If you want to beat M$ out of this spot of domination - not only do we need to support and back another method of identification, we need to beat them in the content wars.
M$ web sites and services sometimes are pretty, but they lack in content. Stray from doing business with sites that back Passport. Don't use HoTMaiL, don't use MSN Zone - but more importantly inspire or create content that will challenge M$ content because they are the last company we want to control this idea.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Microsoft won't stop until everyone is in their MS-Homes wearing their MS-Underwear and ordering MS-Milk on the MS-internet. I swear, they would make MS-Air if they could.
I was worried for a minute there.
This has nothing to do with rights. Well, it does, but it has to do with Microsoft's rights. They have a right to use whatever authentication system for their web pages that they choose.
You, as the average internet consumer do not have a right to access some companies pages without using the access mechanism that they choose. You do have a right to not grace that company with your business, though.
Really, can someone explain to me all of the mis-directed righteous indignation at Microsoft over this? It's a non-issue. If you don't like what MS has done with the Zone...tough. Just go play elsewhere.
Being a passport user on XBox or being an AOL user on PlayStation 2.
I knew there was hell, but hell x 2 sucks even more.
And don't forget licensing.
Today:
"Look, we'll make it easy for you to integrate all your authentication into one easy system and we'll even give it to you for free!"
10 years from now:
"Our auditing system indicates that your payments for licenses are past due. According to the terms of service we may claim this past due payment in stock, thus giving us majority share of your company."
A severe exaggeration, but you can bet that Microsoft's need to keep it's growth going will push it to make this all seem so easy and palatable now and will be followed with a big fee in a few years.
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I thought /. readers only played hunt the wumpus anyhow.
and got rejected.
i knew this was going to be a problem since there are always about 100,000 people logged into the zone at any given time. Asherons Call has a base of 15,000 fanatics (i'm one of them) basicly, M$ set themselves up for a DOS attack with a ton of gamers from all over targeting their servers at the same time. The system was poorly implemented, why bite the bullet and force everyone in at the same time?
----------- destroy evil immediately!
I propose that in response we arrange a boycott of Microsoft products and services. For those of us who use microsoft products such as their Internet Explorer, Outlook Express , etc. it should be relativly easy to switch to alternative products such as the browser Opera. It may be a bit harder for those who use Windows to switch to an alternate OS such as Linux, but if you think you can afford to make the switch, do so at the earliest opportunity. And of course it goes without saying that if you have a Passport account that you should cancel it immediately. We have to draw a line in the sand right here, right now, or this will only get worse!
Please talk to me
Give it a year or two and I'm sure they'll make changes to DirectX, etc, that will make Win2K completely worthless for playing any of the new games, etc. They'll suck you in eventually...
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I can still play MechWarrior 4, for example, I just can't be an 'uber stat monkey' and sit around on the zone all day making fun of people who can't stand against my ph4t sk1llZ. :p
And even if future Microsoft games require Passport to play.. So? It's a Microsoft game. They have a right to choose who plays it. As long as it says, "Passport required for play." on the box, why do we have the right to bitch?
..If I want karma on Slashdot, I need to make an account. True, an account also saves preferences and tells the server where to shove that karma. But there's little difference here, because the Zone, for example, required me to make an account to store my MW4 stats.
So they're changing from some obscure account system to Passport. An account is an account. Accounts tend to hold you accountable, too, from what I hear.
Of course, there are alternatives. If I don't wish to endure the Passport system, I can go play, say, Heavy Gear instead. Or insist that Bandai needs to release a Gundam sim. Sure, it's not Mechwarrior 4, but maybe I should be taking that up with the people who sold the Battletech rights?
Rights, there's that word again. Yes, people who create things generally have rights to do with as they please with said thing. I'm an author by trade, and, while I don't feel the need to come out and say, "Hey, Joe Windows User, I don't want you reading my book!", I have the right to say, "Hey! Fred Publisher! You're not reprinting my material without paying me!"
But should I ever want to say, "Hey, Joe Windows User..", shouldn't I have that right? (Granted, it'd be pretty stupid of me *to* say that, but hey, work with me, people.) After all, anything I create is *mine*, to do with as *I* please.
I'm delving into things that are just silly here, but the argument holds with common sense issues too. Just as we don't want foreign nationals electing our president, we don't want people basing programs off of GPL'd code and closing the source. If we have those rights, why doesn't Microsoft have the right to say, "You can't utilize our stat recording system without getting a Passport."?
Perhaps it's just that some people insist the entire world revolves around and exists to serve *them*. (:
So for right now Microsoft is at least creating the impression that you need it. Requiring passport would be silly until they've got the vast majority of people moved over to XP. I'm guessing they'll say that the move to requiring passport is to insure security, etc
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Admitting this is news is admitting that MS has web services people should care about.
Personally, I'm much more concerned about Oracle's national ID cards. As was demonstrated at BlackHat, Oracle is not "unbreakable".
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Sun requires you register before downloading software. As well as Oracle. Yahoo requires you register for it's customized services. And virtually all message boards require you to register before posting. Some even to browse. So what is the big deal if MS wants to have one universal log in for all of it's online properties? Yahoo requires you to have 1 login for all of it's features.
I thought you weren't allowed to use a monopoly in one area to create a monopoly in another area?
How is it that Microsoft is able to take it's monopoly in Office Suites and require you to create a Passport account in order to register them? Isn't that just creating a monopoly in online Registration?
Once everyone has been forced to register their Office and Windows with Passport, why whould they bother to register with another service? It is just like bundling the browser, only this time they are bundling the online registration.
It's crap of the highest order. It is even worse than the monopoly movie theatres have on food and drink. They state that you cannot bring in outside food or drink and make you pay extortionist prices for the crap that they do offer. It is not a free choice, in the sense that I went there for the movie, not food, but if I want food with my movie I have to pay out the whazoo. This would only be fair if I had the choice of brining in outside food and drink.
Same thing for amusement park food pricing.
The old Zone sign in software was buggy and stretched beyond its limits. The only reason they didn't switch to messenger way earlier was the headache of switching everyone. But it had to happen sometime. Messenger is very specialized software designed to meet the needs of millions of people simultaneously; the zone is a hack that was hardly designed and could barely meet the needs of a few thousand.
Thus, the decision to switch makes good technical sense. So put away your conspiracy theories and let them do what they think is right for their customers. You can go do whats right for yours.
Implementing Microsofts Passport on Microsofts Zone... oh the travesty!
as soon as EBAY requires you to use passport, then it will be noteworthy...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
If you own a hotel, but you force customers to give ALL their credit cards, drivers licenses, emails, and other revealing information before using the pool. Or the vibrating bed, for that matter.
hey morons -
why don't you all just LIE when you sign up for your passport. Oh, and if you are just so pissed at MS then DONT USE THEIR FUCKING PRODUCTS AND SERVICES. stick to linux and try to run Mechwarrior 4 with wine. and when it doesn't work mail linus.
dammit you people are a bunch of fucking whiners.
frixion
of yakuza fame
So when I do not agree with terms of service of Passport, can I return Asheron's call since I cannot play it now? I want my money refunded.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
OH my god they want all of the servers they own to use THEIR auth system! Heaven forbid they should want to put their own product on their FREE servers along with the services you pay for. Stop the presses a company is using its own product! I am not a MS zealot but you know this is just going to far, I mean really how does this matter and why does it cause such an uproar? If you don't want to use Passport don't use the Zone or hotmail or anything else. Its not like that many peoples jobs would require them to use these services, unlike windows, so here is a great chance to vote the only way you can... Simply don't use them.
I agree, I try to avoid using microsoft software as much as possible, but perhaps taking this a step further would be more useful. The fact of the matter is that the average person won't boycott microsoft for various reasons. What we need to do is help average computer users learn why they should boycott microsoft and given them what they need to do it.
What does this translate into? Helping people learn other operating systems. Contributing to software projects that improve the usability of those other operating systems. This does not mean going out a proseletyzing and shouting "Windows sucks!" That sort of approach just makes you look arrogant and turns people off. Until we can get the masses on board, a boycott is nearly useless.
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Ever go to vegas? Hotels are all of the above and more in many cases. It's called good business.
With todays Mozilla build, I can't even access MSN's "Zone". I get a browser unsupported page, and when I click the link to proceed anyways, I'm redirected back to the same page.
Not that I was going to get a "passport" to play their stupid games anyway (most of which are available on the companies web site who developed them, for example, bejewled (one of their most popular games) is available elsewhere (same code) under differant names).
It hurts a lot to see how efficiently Microsoft shuts out competition. Competition is the consumers only stronghold against absolute abuse, competition is democracy through your wallet, the only real democracy that is left in this world and I don't wanna lose that. I don't drink Coca C(Monop)ola, I avoid Nestlé products and so on. But there is no way around Microsoft, there are only windows in this world, even the emergency door (Linux) is efficiently shut by Microsoft, the consumers are weaved into the Microsoft products. Microsoft is the bluescreen of the competitive marketeconomy
Frederik Grøn Schack
Being a former manager at the Zone, I can honestly say this is a scary concept. While I was there, we desperately tried to resist even becoming a part of MSN, alas the powers that be just wheeled the Zone like any other product and made us a part of MSN.
Microsoft already tracks user information through the use of their Zone software. So much information, that it's almost like the Windows XP product activation. They ban users from their service based on a unique key generated by the Zone software that analyzes your hardware.
Slap this in with the fact that you use a credit card to access Asheron's Call and other premium services, they've got a good start on a personal profile for you.
They know what your system is made up of, they know your credit card number, they know your visiting habits, and if you use hotmail, they have your email by the proverbial balls. Short of owning your home, they own your online presence indefinitely. In the future if they integrate Passport with XBox, they'll be able to track your game habits, how many wins, losses even your game chats.
Chalk one up to MS for squeaking this one in on the Zone. I bet they resisted it with their very last bit of will power.
Due to security precautions, I'm only allowing specially authenticated viewing of this paper. Thus, please use this link:
MSN Tracking Prodecures Whitepaper.
It's definitely worth a read.
So you move to washington and then sue them for spamming you :)
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Problems with MS-Software?
Don't even think about contacting Microsoft Tech Support without a Passport!
Hopefully hackers can come up with something similar to the Halo network project.
Little do we know microsoft will soon be providing:
POOL ex-pee
To try and convince users there's no more pee in the pool. Once new hotel guests jump in, they'll realize why the water's still yellow.
-Wrexsoul
--- Need web hosting?
Reminds me of websites I have found that were optimized for 1600x1200 resolution.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
You don't have to fill in ANY authentic information so why is this any different from logging into any website - slashdot for that matter? Who cares, just fill in a bunch of nonsense, set it up to save the password locally, then never think about it again.
From the article:
...and sell him a +3 vorpal sword of flames instead.
"There are valuable items you can collect that are worth real-world money," Augustine said. "l lost something I probably could have sold for $100 because I couldn't get in yesterday."
So this is why MS wants everyone to use passport. They can identify the chump who will pay $100 for a +1 vorpal sword...
(I wonder if people will complain about them getting a monopoly on the magic items market)
I Heart Sorting Networks
I had to register several copies of MS software for my office some time ago, and since then I've been receiving a whole lot of newsletters from them. So I followed their instructions on how to unsubscribe, and went to http://www.microsoft.com/info/unsubscribe.htm
Guess what? In order to unsubscribe from their spam, I need to sign up for Passport.
So I set up a procmail filter.
MS will make setting up a passport account part of installing Windows.
probably won't let you begin copying files untill you set one up. and as for OEMs, they will force the users to set up passport before the computer becomes usable.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Good morning.
I appear before you today as Winston Churchill said, "only to fight while there is a chance, so we don't have to fight when there is none." I am here to affirm that, in the computer software marketplace, competition, free from monopolistic practices, will deliver customer choice and access to affordable alternatives. Members of the committee, through your actions, you can affect a remedy that many members of the growing, global technical community hope will restore balance and inspire competitiveness in a networked society free of monopolistic practices.
It is with deep regret, that contrary to the statements of the US Department of Justice in its impact statement discussing the Consent Decree, the remedies settlement embodied in the Consent Decree fails to achieve the ends mandated by the Court for the following reasons:
it fails to deny Microsoft the fruits of its statuatory violations,
it fails to ensure that competition is likely to result,
it was an agreement reached for the purpose of expediency, not for ensuring an adequate remedy and,
it establishes an untenable precedent for future antitrust cases.
I stand before you today as a representative of the open source community and as the CEO of Red Hat, Inc., generally regarded as the most successful company selling and supporting open source software. The Red Hat Linux operating system software we provide is created by a global community of volunteers--volunteers who share their creation of intellectual property. The basis for their work is an open license that requires improvements to the technology be shared with others in return for broad rights of use, copying, and modifying the copyrighted work they receive. Programmers submit their software code, their creations, to the scrutiny of a very critical community of peers. The best code wins and is included in the next version of the software.
This open communication strikes me as so perfectly American. I envision the early leaders of this country drawing up the tenets of our constitution in much the same way--in the open, in pursuit of a solution that is fair and of benefit to all. Some have called this the technology equivalent of a barn-raising. Through this approach Linux software has grown, improved and become one of the most stable, cost-effective operating systems in the world. It continues to improve every day.
The values and practices of Red Hat are in most ways antithetical to those of the monopolist I am here to reference. Much testimony has been provided on the practices of that monopolist, which in my view has placed a technical and financial stranglehold on the technology industry. Mr. McNealy and Mr. Barksdale and others that have come before me have done a good job of addressing those monopolistic practices to this committee. I support their conclusions that the software industry needs government intervention. I support their requests for strong enforcement of antitrust laws if consumers in this country are to be returned to choice in their selection and use of software. I reaffirm their case, that innovation will occur when there is a competitive environment free of monopolistic practices.
Open source software arose because of a lack of alternatives that allowed the individual to choose the best tool for the job. Over the past 5 years, projects created by Red Hat and the open source community have become solutions of choice in areas of standards-based Internet software development, areas that the monopolist does not yet control. The growth and adoption of the Linux operating system now holds a 28% marketshare of the server operating system according to IDC. The Apache web server now holds 60% of the web server marketplace. Both are technologies developed by the open source community and available alternatives to Microsoft products.
Microsoft is deeply concerned about open source software and has already made overtures on how it will use dominance rather than technical expertise to crush it. The CEO of the monopolist said, quote, "Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches." The head of the monopolist's Windows Platform Group has similar beliefs. He said publicly, quote, "Open source is an intellectual property destroyer. I can't imagine something that could be worse than this for the software business." He goes on to say, "I'm an American, I believe in the American way. I worry if the government encourages open source, and I don't think we've done enough education of policy-makers to understand the threat." This same company has identified open source software as the single biggest threat to their business.
I am deeply troubled by the Consent Decree in this case because it runs counter to things that are fundamental to our identity as Americans. We value fair play, ethical competition, abiding by the rules and fostering innovation. But the same monopolist which has brought us here today continues to want to set the rules, including the rules governing the remedy that the Department of Justice claims will level the playing field. The monopolist cleverly carves out exceptions in that proposed remedy for security compromises it identifies and for standards it sets for determining what enterprise is an authentic and viable business. Moreover, the monopolist gets a substantial say in selecting the very body that is to monitor its practices. Since when does a parolee get to select his own probation officer?
It is clear to me even without a law degree that the Consent Decree was reached for the purpose of expediency rather than a sustainable result. When the result of the antitrust litigation has been upheld by the highest court in the nation, why is a lower court and, more specifically, the Justice Department willing to accept a less favorable settlement to consumers than the Microsoft proposed settlement when the finding of guilt was still at issue. I find it inconceivable that a firm with 96% marketshare, which has routinely annihilated competitors in its path, be offered improved terms after guilt has been established.
We have all heard of the Digital Divide. It's the gap in information and computing access between the haves and have nots in our society. I believe for the past 7 years , Microsoft has seen education as a marketplace, not as a responsibility. I believe that Microsoft, through its restrictions, high prices and monopoly power, is in part responsible. I'm involved with North Carolina Central University, one of the fine historically black universities in our country. It finds that it cannot afford Microsoft's restrictive licenses and forced upgrades. I see this sad experience in schools throughout our country. I have walked the halls of some of our poorest schools. The last thing these schools need is technology with strings attached.
Let us recognize who we are dealing with in this matter. In the words of Massachusetts Attorney General Thomas F. Reilly, commenting on the consent decree: "Five minutes after any agreement is signed with Microsoft, they'll be thinking of how to violate the agreement. They're predators. They crush their competition. They crush new ideas. They stifle innovation. That's what they do.''
The Chinese government understands this. The French and German governments as well. They have stated that proprietary software will not be used to develop government and educational infrastructure.
But the monopolist has more than 90% of the desktop operating system market and more than 70% of the Internet browser market. What choices do our schools have? What choices do our citizens have? As the monopolist extends its monopoly into additional markets, largely unfettered by the legal system and apparently immune to the consequences of their actions, the Digital Divide widens.
Biologists know that an unbalanced ecosystem, one dominated by a single species, is more vulnerable to collapse. I think we're seeing this today. Unchecked under the Consent Decree, it will continue and probably get worse. But it is not too late. Alternatives are still available. Action can still be taken. I call on you, our national representatives, to address this issue. Consider the fine work done by the nine litigating states in drafting an alternative set of remedial measures. Bring your considerable influence to bear on this matter. Stand up for your constituents.
In America, history has taught us that there is no mechanism more logical and efficient and than a free and open market. Our competitor's illegal monopolistic actions have significantly reduced the open market in information technology. I believe that in extreme cases like this, it is the role of government--this government--to step in and restore balance.
Thank you.
No one named Yves plays Quake.
So they have to sign up for a passport. So what? I have a passport, it's great to use the email address when you have to fill it in on some website. That way you don't get spam in your own mailbox.
Really I (and probably a lot of others) couldn't care less
Like online games, you WILL have to subscribe to Passport as it stands now- and you WILL have to fill in the right info or it's called 'credit fraud' and you could get prosecuted over it.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
anyone know if this game will require it? please say no!
I have Bejewelled open in another Mozilla window right now, and I don't have a passport account. It would seem that the change is a bit less extensive than CNet (and Slashdot) seems to be saying.
Pee patch can be found here.
The biggest problem with this isn't that Microsoft's becoming the bigger better brother, it's all the strings attached to anything you buy. When you went out and bought doom2 you could play it versus other people directly: no middle man, no matchmaking service that requires logon, just a nice easy quick IPX connection.
Nowadays we're becoming so encumbered with little extras you rarely know what's what. The heck with just Microsoft, I just about threw out my Visa bill thinking it was junk mail (and believe me, the first 10 things I pulled from the thing were).
I'd personally be much happier keeping my online information private, sharing with only those I choose, matchmaking games directly with other users where available.
Though I can't disagree with Microsoft's policy. If I wanted to cash in on a huge community that everyone has to sign up to I'd do exactly the same thing... and I doubt anyone could honestly say they're innocent enough to never conceive such an idea.
-Wrexsoul
--- Need web hosting?
If you run the hotel, do you get to say to some of your paying customers not to use the pool?
heh...I hear EverQuest is really nice this time of year....
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
I see your point.
Anybody know if MS has any competitors here? I think the best way I can express my unwillingness to use my passport account everywhere I go would be to use the competitor's sites.
Hotmail has a bunch of competitors right now, but what about things like the Gaming Zone? I'm not using GZ right now, but if it's ever interesting to me I'd like to know about alternatives before I give MS my name.
"Derp de derp."
I feel a conspiracy here...
... if all the grocery stores in your city required Passport? How about the phone company or electric utility?
If you guys really hate MS, then you should use the service, just...
1. Don't give them any real information. Ex:
a. You live in Afganistan
b. Give them a junk Yahoo email that you use to sign up with other services.
2. Never use passport for any other purpose than authentication for your bogus account.
a. Contacts
b. Wallet
c. You get the point
3. NEVER PAY for passport. If they ever decide they want to force people to pay for it, simply do like everybody else and opt out.
If you think like a cheap bastard, then MS will never get thier grips on you.
If anybody has other any other ideas, or PLAUSIBLE scenerios on how MS can screw you even if you adhere to these rules, then feel more than free to reply.
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
I have used the zone for a very long time, I have also participated in zone tourneys, and promoted the zone as a gaming environment. The zones move to passport was an incredibly bad move. For one, it does not allow having multiple zone names, the previous one did, and for a gaming environment this is important because many people want to apply unit tags. The old zone system did this very well already and allowed team registration, and changing of names on a whim. This system was better for gaming that the current zone system. I am in a unique position and am able to get in contect with actual zone techs because I know a couple, and the zone was so buggy with the change that I had to get a total of 3 .NET passports before I could get my previous zone name. It took me 2 just to get a zone name, but because of a bug it auto-assigned a random zone name to my account and would not allow me to switch it.
many, many, people have had problem, the zone log in has also experienced problems with the very ability to log in.
For example when you log into the zone right now, you have a "small" chance of actually being able to log in, and when you do successfully log in, because of errors in the page it will log you out if you hit any links, which kind of hurts the ability to play games, for example when I hit submit after creating this post, instead of posting slashdot logged me out... and not only logged me out, but took 4 minutes of stalling your browser to log out. It gets very old, very quick.
The sheer unusable interface, and the fact that all the zone features were previously implemented, and in good working order, the only difference is that you have to have a .NET passport now, there is no added functionality, no added software, just added hassle.
I hope that answered your question.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
For those of you who are 'forced' to join passport you can go a step further and starting purchasing items using your newly created passport account and microsoft will give you some money back. Beware I don't think the amount they give back will be comparable to how much somebody could fraudently bill to your account when they get access to your passport account. Errr....wait nobody would be able to do that to a microsoft product because they enforce security through obscurity and it has never failed them.
I don't understand why you are all so weary of the Passport system? Sure, it may be a bit "reckless" of Microsoft to expect all of their software users to authenticate under the same scheme, but I don't see what is so wrong with the Passport system. I've had a Passport for almost a year now just to use Hotmail and MSN, and I've given away no personal information in doing so. I've never received any targeted ads or marketing blitzes from Microsoft or any of their partners, except for the standard spam that one would expect of a Hotmail account (and it's not nearly as bad as it used to be).
So, since I've missed all the Slashdot hype about Passport and its woes, please inform me of why this system is so terribly bad and evil. Seriously, I'd like to know, this is not a troll.
Microsoft spends a lot of time and money creating Passport.. a product they obviously think is a viable thing, and they have the gusto to USE IT ON THEIR OWN SITE!?!?!?!?!?!
Oh my god. I'm getting a touch of the vapours.
I can't take it anymore, good bye cruel world..
.. try to download a game patch for any game made by sierra (like halflife for example)
then tell me how willing you are to pay $8 a month to gamespy for the priviledge of downloading PATCHES for games youve ALREADY PAID FOR.
.. then just go get the patch from a warez site instead.
Really? Do you want one key to open all your doors. Do you need the same level of security for advert laden email as you do for real identity protection? Sometimes seperation is a good idea. Sometimes it happens because you bought everyone and were too dumb to fix things as you did it.
Logic asside, if they do it you would hope that they could use something that worked (what is it, Kerebos?). They has proven incapable of protecting anything, from credit card info to Hotmail to individual PCs. Who would trust them as they move all their services to the system first used for Hotmail that has been broken already? They should realize that this is just one more reason not to do business with Micro~.
M$ is evil but, as usual, they are not very good at it.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
This is more like saying sure we'll sell you a car but to drive it on the road with other owners, you must belong to a special club.
Normal people (average boring non-techies) don't seem to blink much when MS gets into an anti-trust suit. Instead, Joe Public is wondering how this will affect their stocks, instead of thinking why some people think MS is in this anti-trust case in the first place.
(Of course, the stock market is the vilest entity ever created. This is here, and gambling is illegal?!)
When it comes down to it, normal people are just too damn stupid, or too apathy to even care, about things like these. We're a selfish breed in our most primitive form, and require some degree of intelligence to get out of that mode.
I really can't provide any solutions except boycott/pirate MS products and fight the (corporate) system with the (legal) system.
Zodiac Survey
"Of course, if you run the hotel, you get to say who uses the pool ..."
But if you own all of the hotels and use the pools to flood people out of their homes, the federal government begins paying attention to your "innovative" development of revenue streams.
Seriously, I don't think that people are surprised that a company decided to go for a unified login system for all of its many ventures. I think people are surprised that Microsoft, still facing antitrust litigation, is continuing to push forward with its same "We Must Be Everything Everywhere For Everybody" policies that got it in trouble in the first place.
It defies all rational logic that such a company would continue to advance its grand plans despite a very clearly labelled legal minefield spread out around it. So when the giant corporation doesn't even seem to slow down for the danger around it, all of the sane and rational people become indignant and concerned that having a legal minefield won't be enough to keep the juggernaut corporation from crushing them.
Or at least flooding out their homes.
Exactly. This is why you have to make a decision:
Either use Microsoft for EVERYTHING, or for NOTHING.
There just isn't much of a middleground anymore. Either take the plunge, wipe Linux off your drives, and surrender all your data (personal and PC) to Microsoft, or don't use them for ANYTHING at all.
Sadly, this is true.
I just bought some plane tix on the web yesterday, so I figured I'd use Expedia, since Orbitz was saying "sure here are ten flights" and each time I'd try to BUY the seats, it would say "this flight is no longer available". On each flight, on each segment, at different times, and I KNEW the plane wasn't full for any of those.
So I gave up on Orbitz and bought them (for more money) on Expedia.
And when I go to Expedia it asked me to Log In To Microsoft Passport. I clicked on the NEVER EVER SIGN ME UP TO PASSPORT option, of course, and after a whole bunch of silly things - like them having problems with my home email address, which has a hyphen (as in my name has a hyphen), so I had to use my work email - anyway I finally got the tix.
And I had to KEEP UNCHECKING all the "let us send you even more SPAM" buttons they tried to reactivate each time.
And then, shortly after I started getting spam from them. It's all "in-between" stuff - oh, since you didn't want us to send you ads, we'll send you product ideas. And I have to keep using the "Take Me Off Your List" URLs and unchecking all the boxes they keep checking (after I unchecked them the first time).
So, sadly, I guess you're right. And I'm glad I preordered Mandrake 8.1 with The Sims, so I can get out of the Microsoft universe.
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I can have ebay MSN message me when I am outbid.
We are already there my friend...
Of course you can sell just a part of your soul to the devil.
But he gets to chose which part is his at any given moment.
Turbine.
The Zone® has botched the login procedure for both the release of Dark Majesty® and now for the Passport® switchover.
Okay, if the passport implant starts being sold at Best Buy, I'll convert :)
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
... that the only organization more evil and callous than microsoft is the United States Justice Dept.
Who cares, I play at VOG anyway...
Fuck M$
There has got to be some sort of criteria to become a passport site. Do the site owneres have to be bonded, or just pay the M$ protection money (err fee) ?
Okay. I'm all for preventing MS world domination...
But they already *have* all the info about all the players... it's all cosmetic.
They could correlate all their back end database info *anyway*.. this just makes it easier for them.
When another company does it ... it's called "Single Sign-On". When Microsoft does it ... it's an attack on personal rights and privacy.
Actually I've found that most people who are not aware of these issues are actually quite interested when you take the time to explain it and to present them with reasonable alternatives. They may not be willing to go to extrordinary lengths but I think you'd be surprised how many would be willing to make small but useful changes.
:)
Maybe instead of an XBox they get a PS2 or GameCube. Maybe instead of getting XP, they install RedHat7.2 (with a little support from you to help them adjust). Maybe they avoid using passport for their authentication on-line. Maybe the switch from getting their news on MSN to some other site.
I think you underestimate people, but I grant you, I've always been an optimist about people. It's large monolithic organizations that make me nervous
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Nooooo!!! Not E-MAIL ADDRESSES!!!!
...
...
Dude, get a clue already. How many games have you bought because someone sent you an email?
Um, I've bought five. The Sims House Party, Mandrake 8.1 bundle with The Sims For Linux, some Linux games
What, do you hang out at game stores or something? That is so last century
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
MSN reliability already sucks. Remember the MSN Messenger 7 day outage? I use all three IM systems, and MSN has the worst reliability of them all. And they want us to rely on Passport for ALL our online authentication?
Everybody always likes to jump down Microsoft's throat every time they try and breathe. But please, stop for a second and get a grip on reality.
Keeping up with the usernames and passwords for every account I have is a complete nightmare. I have hundreds of them, I can't remember them all, its nuts. Passport solves that problem by giving me one password to go along with my email address (that's my normal email address, not a Hotmail address).
Now everybody seems to have plenty downsides to this convienence, most of which are uninformed rubbish (a site using passport doesn't suddenly get all my information, they only get the information I want them to have for instance) - some of it important (if I break the terms of use, I get cut off all sites). But does anybody have a better method of solving the multiple account problem?
Sun are going to have all the same issues with theirs, so is anybody else trying to do the same thing. They're all going to be the target of every script kiddie under the sun, they're all going to have terms of use that can be broken and you use access to them all, they'll all have the problem of being hacked and the hacker getting your information for all sites. Other companies won't be invulnerable to these problems just because they aren't Microsoft. And don't think that Microsoft aren't going to get all the best security they can on these things either, they're not THAT dumb (not when they're business really depends on it that much).
So how do you propose these problems are solved?
All of us who do not like Microsoft obviously do not want .NET and passport to prevail. We have a shot against .NET because there are many alternatives coming out. However, there is no technology competing with passport right now. Microsoft is forcing people who want to use their services to sign on.
.NET servers.
Let's consider for a moment how Microsoft has tried to take on the instant messenger market. They've bundled MSN messenger with Windows XP, but many people already have been using ICQ or AIM for years. They won't bother signing up for MSN messenger because they wouldn't be able to talk to their buddies on the other services. But with Passport, there is no alternative around. Sure people may reluctantly sign up for it, but once they have it, they've already gone through the painful process of giving away information. Now they'll be more likely to use other passport services.
But we don't have a good competitor for passport because close to 100% of the slashdot readers, and *nix people in general, don't like the idea of passport. If we don't like the idea, then we won't bother implementing it. Maybe there should be a movement for a competitor to passport. You don't have to use it immediately, or at all. I highly doubt Bill Gates has his credit card number sitting out on those oh so vulnerable
.NET - of course it's name has nothing to do with the amount of holes we're going to find in its security ;-)
Follow me
MS Zone users must use Windows.
-- Dan
Doh!
I told myself not to respond to Slashdot postings again!
Anyway--OF COURSE it's all good business sense. Ultimately, the aim of any good business is to monopolize its market. Saying something is good business sense doesn't justify anything. It's like saying "Well, if you take the perspective of the rabid bear running through the city eating small children, it was just hungry. Therefore we shouldn't stop it."
What Microsoft wants and is best for Microsoft is not necessarily best for you or me or the computer/tech market.
Of course, if you run the hotel, you get to say who uses the pool ...
That's what I keep telling people! I own a small hotel, and I have sign at the pool that reads very clearly "NO BLACKS ALLOWED IN POOL".. you should see the fuss that it creates!
only to be told:
.NET Passport does not support the Web browsing software you are using. Please use supported browsing software such as Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later, or Netscape Navigator versions 4.08-4.82.
.NET Passport using Netscape Navigator 6.1. We take security seriously and are working with Netscape to resolve these issues as soon as possible so that .NET Passport can support Netscape Navigator 6.1. Until that time, please use supported browsing software. We apologize for this inconvenience and thank you for your patience.
Unfortunately, Microsoft®
If you use Netscape Navigator 6.1: due to possible data security issues, you cannot currently access
Quite amazing.
Are you still paranoid if they really ARE out to get you?
Passport, if successful, puts a LOT of power in Microsoft's hands. Suppose you flame them on an online forum like Slashdot, and you find that you can no longer pay your mortgage or your phone bill? From their point-of-view, they have every right to refuse your business.
it belongs to them, when other sites that you go to everyday starts using it then start you're griping. I don't see why any slashdotter would be interested in the zone anyway, unless they are planning on going there.
fuck@ms.net / fuckMS
Passport is completely insecure.
If you know a persons email address
and their mothers maiden name, you
will likely be able to change their
password and take over their account.
This is easy information to come by.
Microsoft doesn't even send an email
to the email address to let you know
that the password has been changed.
Not to mention that once you've created
a passport account, you can never delete
it.
Try these things if you don't believe me.
-Rick
Taken on its own, this doesn't mean much. However, I was just reading an article on The Reg - The Microsoft Secure PC: MS patents a lock-down OS and this paragraph puts Microsofts plans much more in place...
"the content provider would have to maintain a registry of each subscriber's DRMOS identity or delegate that function to a trusted third party," and the number of unique DRMOSes, the authors acknowledge, could run into the millions."
This fits in very nicely with passport as you can not only authenticate the user, but the system they are operating as well. Not nice when you consider that MSFT has registered patents that include the removal of unauthorised software from the system...
The US Gov't owns about 67% of the US' total land area. Not quite "total" market share, but I doubt any other party owns more than 1-2% by themselves.
...you get to tell people what kind of car they have to show up in, and you have to buy it from the Hotel. Oh wait, no you don't.
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
whether they use a PC or not. Combine this "passport required to use their gaming network" with this recent article .NET user alone to be "required" to use passport -- they're going to get you to sign on any way they can get away with...
and you get M$ requiring passport for every net-saavy XBox user out there...so you don't have to be a Windows, MSN, or
...and our privacy rights be damned...
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
"Can you at least put a little bit of thought into your posts? /. used to be informational - now any idiotic rant based on the unfounded premise that M$FT is always wrong will manage to be moderated to 5. "
I assume you mean my original post that started this thread. The point of my original post was to find a way to send a message to MS that what they are doing is unacceptable. My guess is that it was mod'd up to 5 because people believe that my idea would work. If the idea worked, and a bunch of people followed that suggestion, then it'd prove that Microsoft IS wrong. The best thing is that what is 'right' would be chosen democratically as opposed to being what a mega-corporation decides.
Oversimplifying somebody's point down to 3 words only demonstrates that you didn't get the point, it does not prove that their idea had no thought put into it.
"Derp de derp."
The MSN messanger is very aggrivating, it also pretends like it needs to run every time you check your email with outlook express, and doesnt like being ignored on the desktop. If you wanna remove it edit c:\windows\inf\sysoc.dll find the line that says msmsgs=msgrocm.dll -- remoce "hide" from that line, but leave the commas -- save then goto control panel, add/remove programs, then look for windows components, click on it, and it will be one of those in there (cant remember the exact name) --topside
The MSN messanger is very aggrivating, it also pretends like it needs to run every time you check your email with outlook express, and doesnt like being ignored on the desktop. If you wanna remove it edit c:\windows\inf\sysoc.dll find the line that says msmsgs=msgrocm.dll -- remoce "hide" from that line, but leave the commas save then goto control panel, add/remove programs, then look for windows components, click on it, and it will be one of those in there (cant remember the exact name) --topside
Users of MS Reader 2.0 software also must "activate" the product to get access to certain eBooks. This activation also requires Passport login.
I did a poor job of clarifying my thoughts in an earlier post. I'm concerned about MS requiring Passport to EVERY site of theirs you go to. It's possible that the reason Gaming Zone exists is to lure people into getting a Passport account. By doing this, they force me to stay logged in all the time, which uniquely identifies me. The worst part is we don't know what it is they are doing in the background.
The worst part is that you CANNOT kill your account. I attempted this before. I even wrote to MS and asked them about it. You know what they told me? "Oh, that's easy. All you have to do is not use your account for a year."
Early on, that may not be such an issue. But as more and more sites use Passport, it seems like that becomes almost an impossibility.
I guess that's the main reason I'm bothered by more sites requiring it. It won't be long before MS locks their downloads area to Passport.
"Derp de derp."
I submitted a story about the fact that MS were forcing current 'bCentral' subscribers to use Passport IDs a couple of weeks ago, but the /. editors, in their wisdom, didn't think it was newsworthy at the time.
Yeah, and we all know that Microsoft held a gun to your head and just MADE you use Expedia. Of course, your pathetic little anecdote had nothing to do with "You have to either use Microsoft for everything, or for nothing." Windows users certainly aren't limited to using Expedia for their travel needs. Funny how a Linux dork like yourself seems to be, though.
AOL (who happen to be quite big ;) have their own login / account system which they are doing alongside a few other big names (perhaps Sun?).
The name is Liberty Alliance, so make a note of that.
This has been mentioned on the XNS mailing list. Have a look at XNS - they are doing a single login / identity management technology.
(BTW, in case you missed it - AOL has been paying for developers to work on the world's greatest browser to replace IE in AOL's software.)
I just went out and did a bit of research. Liberty Alliance are definately worth supporting. Have a look a this clip from their FAQ:
Can't see AOL listed there ... must have it mixed up with something else.
"Of course, if you run the hotel, you get to say who uses the pool ..."
But should you build the pool? knowing that the pool you want to build has numerous holes in it that will continually drain the water out and make it unuseable?
You don't even need to have everyone on the same LAN as you. I've played AOE2 with five people on my local network, two from other networks over 56K modems, and one person in another state over his cable modem.
Just host the game from a machine that's not behind a firewall or NAT, and let everyone know your IP.
There are hacks for many other games that allow you to bypass the lame "game servers" (like Novalogic uses) and connect directly to your friends' games. Just take some time and search around on the 'net!
If you have any doubts, check www.geocaching.com and search the Low Medium High geocache. Part of the search involves the use of a time machine that is open to the public.
The truth shall set you free!
"Of course, if you run the hotel, you get to say who uses the pool ..."
Of course, I don't own all of the hotels and all of the pools, and the patents to chlorine...
I don't rent videos from Blockbuster because they insist I waive my rights under the Video Rental Privacy Act.
I don't buy from Amazon because they now insist I "register" before buying.
It's getting hard to spend money.
A half hour ago I was able to play Asheron's call though microsofts passport system. Now I can't even though I am doing the smae thing I did a half hour ago.
MICROSOFT FUCKEN SUCKS!!!!!!!
MICROSOFT FUCKEN SUCKS!!!!!!!
MICROSOFT FUCKEN SUCKS!!!!!!!
MICROSOFT FUCKEN SUCKS!!!!!!!
MICROSOFT FUCKEN SUCKS!!!!!!!
I see many people ranting about how if they have to use a .NET passport in order to play premium games, where they have to pay, suddenly their privacy is compromised and every site that uses .NET will know that information. That is hardly true. Before talking about what you don't know, try reading the .NET passport privacy policy, found at:p
http://www.passport.com/consumer/privacypolicy.as
For anyone who is worried, I highly recommend reading it, but for those who don't want to, I'll highlight a few points.
1. The normal .NET passport only stores the following:
.NET Passport includes your e-mail address, because your .NET Passport is based on your e-mail address. .NET Passport may also collect your name and/or phone number depending on which .NET Passport Services you register for. .NET Passport collects may include your country, state/region, ZIP/Postal Code, time zone, gender, birthday, and occupation.
Personally identifiable information, which is information that either personally identifies you or allows others to contact you. The personally identifiable information collected by
Non-personally identifiable or "demographic" information, which by itself does not identify you or allow others to contact you. The non-personally identifiable information that
2. Any information about credit card and address is stored in the .NET Wallet which is an optional part of the .NET. Only stores that actually use that information for purchasing purposes have access to the Wallet and they get access by having a privacy policy that matches the MS .NET Wallet privacy policy.
3. Other information (such as sizes if you buy clothes) are stored by the retailer, not by MS on your .NET account, the same goes for the zone, everything besides what is stated is stored by the .NET is stored by the zone, not .NET.
Anyone who was already playing premium games on the zone had already given MS their credit card info and their name, along with a valid e-mail address, so why should it matter if they can now go other places and not have to re-enter it? That information will now just be stored in the .NET wallet which in no way tells other zites that someone uses the zone for gaming.
If I try to associate my old name with my new passport name, I get an unknown error has occurred.
.net does not allow you to easily setup a test enviroment. This was not tested. This is a mess. All I want to do is play some hearts, not create another account with fake data. And it won't even let me do that! If you remember the old apple game Prisoner, I think this is MS's tribute to it. It is a maddening quest to defeat the interface.
If i try and create a new alias, i get a 500 error.
One looming bug I found, if you enter the wrong password to your passport account and have it remember you, you have to delete the zone cookie. It will keep acting like you logged in and not offer you the login screen, yet you can't access anything.
Other fun bugs, almost every single page during the signup process asks you if you want to download both secure and insecure elements. Most forms take 2-3 times of submitting before one takes.
My thought, I guess
Chet
I think I will create my own "Microsoft Passport" website, it's simple, all you do is take the graphics, build a form authentication system that saves the username and password in a database, then grants access to the site.
As the usernames and passwords can be used for multiple sites I can then have a great time accessing everyone's Hotmail, Gaming, MSDN accounts.
Cool eh!
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
Passport is extremely convenient. Especially under Windows XP. I have a passport account, and I have MS messenger running, which keeps track of it for me.
Now, when I get to a passport enabled site where I've never been before, like the Slate, for instance, I can register and login by doing the following:
1. Click the ".NET sign in" button
That's fucking it! I'm signed in! My cat could do it! Compare this to registering at your average forum, where you have to fill in personal info at yet another site, create yet another account, and verify your email for the 234:th time, and then enter your username and password to login.
From a convenience perspective, Passport is the best thing since sliced bread, and WILL be successful for that reason. Passport is more good than it is bad, and therefore Joe Schmoe will get one.
It really doesn't matter what the Slashdotters with tinfoil hats with 26 email accounts do or say. If microsoft can manage to keep up with a reasonable quality of security, they will succeed with this.
After reading the comments regarding M$ requiring MS Zone customers to register with Passport I feel it is time to do something instead of just talking about it. I for one will be switching over to either Linux or Apple and forget about MS. If enough people make the switch a difference will be made. If either Linux or Apple or both can garner just 25%-30% of the market that is an awful lot of users. Enough for the game manufacturers and others to see the profits to be made porting games to those OS's.With just those percentages that will mean millions and millions of users. It is time to either Sh*t or Get off the Pot. I believe in the free enterprise system and our voices must be heard. Or better yet our pocketbooks must be heard.
If you don't like MS, there are always alternatives:
http://www.xns.org
http://www.onename.com
If enough people use a competing system, (especially a more open like xns) then the market can't as easily galvanize around Passport.
-Tom
He has a 1.4ghz processor, but cant afford at least a 56k? I smell bullshit.
raretshirts.com - cool vintage t-shirts
He get's a PS/2 :)
Seriously, with the vast improvements in game console hardware in the last year or two, the relevancy of the PC as a game platform is diminishing.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Zodiac Survey
Paranoids everywhere....
I won't rehash the idea that a MS owned site might arguably use an MS log-in called Passport.
I won't rehash the notion that MS software CAN be activated by PHONE (many offices do not allow internet access to everyone... or people would be checking the status of the ebay aucions all day).
Sure MS *can* track a ton of info by using Passport... but the sheer volume of info would be overwhelming, and I doubt they possess the sophistication to present the info in any meaningful way... a few years ago they were practically using pen and paper in their accounting dept!
I don't use the Zone, don't use hotmail, use an ebay login rather than passport... big deal.
I set up a passport account several months ago for the hell of it (no CC info) and I find it very difficult to use. My usual user name was taken, it didn't like my password (so I had to use something I can never remember) and I found the entire experience to be less than "user friendly" and haven't used it since... big deal.
All this talk of privacy is bizarre... with my DSL with a static IP, it wouldn't take that much to determine who I am anyway... much less the fact that I'm also logged in... so what if I create an anonymous passport account?
I game at Westwood, and my login is compared to my game's serial number (in the event they ever need to bar me for inappropriate "game chat"). I'm guessing I could purchase a new game or purloin a serial number and set up a new ID should that ever occur... big deal- but it is a type of "authentication scheme."
It is paranoid to think passport will "take over the world"- most businesses have margins so tight they would not even consider paying MS a fee to use passport, and what user wants to pay a fee for the "convenience"- and certainly MS will eventually have their hand out for some sort of cut for whatever transactions occur using it. I seriously doubt your utility company is using MS for their billing, etc. Last I checked you can use pen and paper to automatically pay utilities by CC... they don't need MS or passport.
Somebody needs to develop a disposable (as in NOT attached to a personal account) and anonymous standard of microcurrency that can be electronically transmitted (the equivalent of old fashioned CASH). I know many old farts who still refuse to give CC info over the net (or make online purchases). The public at large (as in beyond slashdot) is more uncomfortable about all this than most people here give them credit (people may be sheep about using MS products, but not necessarily about giving out CC info). The general public, while stupid or misinformed at times, is very paranoid about security issues, viruses, etc... and like it or not, a subscription-based game service does require a financial transaction (which pretty much eliminates privacy for the average user).
Finally, back to the original topic... MS's migration to passport at the Zone was anything BUT smooth- not a good business example to use to sell the service to others. MS definitely does NOT have a monopoly on gaming or gamesites... There will ALWAYS be alternatives. MSN bought out my ISP- so I switched... a little inconvenience, but not a big deal.
Those that suggest you "dance like no one is watching" really want to see you make a complete fool of yourself.
that may be covered under legislation you know
It's crap of the highest order. It is even worse than the monopoly movie theatres have on food and drink.
I sneak my own food into theaters all the time. Hell, I sneak beer in if I feel like it (it's great fun to roll the bottles down the floor when there's a quiet part). It's one of the advantages of living in Canada I guess. You can wear a big coat and no one blinks an eye. And at the point that they start being pricks about it, I'll simply quit going to theaters. Fuck 'em! I'm the customer! They cater to me, not the other way around!! Or, as a friend of mine says: "The tail doesn't wag the dog!" It's way past time people started asserting their rights and telling companies that depend on our support that we refuse to be pushed around by them and will withdraw our support if we don't like terms. As far as Passport is concerned, I have a hotmail account with no personal information attached to it and that's how it's going to stay, and if they don't like it they can kiss my pucker! I've noted that Office XP tried to set Instant Messaging up to phone home every time I started it up...put a stop to that real fast! (BTW I installed XP merely out of curiousity...I tell my friends to get StarOffice...They really are sold in the fact that it's free). Microsoft better think good and hard about forcing users to link their personal information to their software. My computer is my servant and it does my bidding, not Microsoft's! Why should I give Microsoft information that I'm not willing to share with a police officer unless I have to! Nobody says you have to play by their rules! You do have a say!
You're using her as bait, Master!