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Microsoft Pirating Their Own Software?
14ghz writes "Microsoft gave out copies of .NET Visual Studio Pro to attendees of the Microsoft .NET Student Tour. Despite the discs saying "UNLICENSED
SOFTWARE -- Illegal without separate license from Microsoft", the freebie didn't contain any license document, and one guy decided to ask the MS conference rep about it. Read the in-progress story."
Those are bulk media discs, not pirated discs. They require a separate volume licensing key to use.
headline: new low for microsoft, they pirate helpless software companies... themselves.
Maybe they've just decided to give out illegal copies of their software to everyone they can and then sue them over it. It's easier than getting them to trudge all the way down to the store and fork out a hundred bucks willingly.
lysergically yours
Dont they normally have some kind of click through license?
"Do you agree to our terms and conditions YES | No"
Kind of thing?
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
...onna disc, they're lovely! EULA's, c'mon, getchore EULA's!
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.
start uploading those things!!! It is in writing that there is no license for those. Your typical license says, among a bunch of other stuff, no copying, distributing... Hence, no license, distribute all you want! Free as in beer!!!
It's totally up to Microsoft to determine how to license their software, and whom to license it to.
What's the fuss? They could license it for free use to recovering crack addicts that live on the 3000 block of 1st street that wear green pants if they wanted to.
As long as some marketing monkey at MS has the OK from the higher-ups, then it's all good.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
You Bastard! I hit the link planning a witty remark aboutM$ entrapment and here you blow it away with three words...oh, wait, this is /.
(clears throat)...Microsoft is attempting to trap you! Watch Out!
Hang Bill Gates! Nuke Redmond! Death to all IE users!
Ooh-Ahh!
Check out the email address of the MS rep: v-sashak@microsoft.com. The 'v-' at the beginning is, IIRC, Microspeak for 'not a Microsoft employee'. It's probably a contractor or agency temp that works events who has been given an MS mail account. Which would explain the less-than-clueful answers (and why (s)he has to speak to his/her manager).
I participated in a retail program giveaway for Windows XP. The copy of WinXP Pro that I received came in a plastic sleeve with a CD-key sticker on the back, but the CD said the same thing: "Use of this disc is illegal without a separate license certificate from Microsoft." And of course, the disc didn't come with a license.
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Why wasn't I told of these events?! There was even one in my city!
Goddamnit slashdot. quit sleeping on the job. I couldv'e had a (semi) not-illegal copy of VS. Newest version, even! None of this "enterprise edition downloaded from a source that wishes to remain nameless" for me...
bastards...
Presumably since this was part of a MSDNAA (Academic Alliance) Student event, all of the attendees are covered under their school's MSDNAA agreement and thus have a separate license.
Nothing to see here, please drive by.
Obviously microsoft has the right to allow you to use the software, with or without a license. The question in this case is:
Is Microsoft okay with this, or are the higher-ups unaware of what is happening here?
How can he prove this software is legal?
Is Microsoft falsly advertising? Software that is only for non-commercial use IS NOT the same as the software that is worth $109, so he did not recieve what was advertised.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
And Linux is going to make a credible challenge as a desktop operating system.
And my Mom will eventually know that FreeBSD is not Unix.
And Hillary Rosen will be discovered with a 10,000 song library on a Kazaa SuperNode in her basement and get sued for ten trillin quadrillion dollars.
Then there will finally be peace on Slashdot, and it will be converted into hotornot2.com
We can only pray.
------
Believe me, I'm as surprised by my comment as you are.
in my district, i had proposed several linux based solutions, from turning old p120's into thin X clients, to file servers, yada yada. all were shot down like a duck on opening day. so, i get to talking to our site district technidiot. turns out he goes to some microsoft seminars and they throw out VS, 2K pro, office pro, everything. in fact he laughed because he had a "no reg. key" copy cd. so next time you wonder why there is not the movement you would think towards FOSS, this is why. why would our district want to use FOSS, when the microsoft reps throw out cd's like halloween candy. the reps know full well that the schools have to pay, and they know how to get "the right people on board". it is so easy and cheap for them.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
There is no magical form that a license must be expressed in. The OK from a person with authority from Microsoft is all that's required. Once Sasha says, "you are fine with using software for non-commercial use" it's open season for non-commercial use.
Of course even without licensing covenants you still must abide by relevant copyright law so no unlawful distribution, reproduction etc.
This guys is just being a dick. I also got a copy of Win XP from one of those MS seminars. It came wrapped with a seperate license. It's a piece of paper that specifically states that it's for non-commercial use.
This guy probably had the same license with his disk, but either way, he's choosing to be an asshole rather than just saying thanks for his free copy of VS.
The dude who posted the article should have had the common decency to obscure the name of the person at Microsoft that he was corresonding with. I have had my name posted on the internet with correspondance I made on behalf of my employer and it always makes me uncomfortable.
Further, the guy is probably some frontline peon who really has no control over anything there and has only been given the vaguest of guidelines on how to operate. No sense sticking his name out on the net for future harassment or embarassment.
I really think doing that was a bad move and anyone in the tech industry should have the common decency not to do that to a colleague.
Microsoft gave you a free copy of a really nice piece of software (Visual Studio .NET). Shut up and take it, or send it back, quit overly antagonizing the MS guy for giving you a free copy of the software without a license. He's probably not an MS lawyer, forgive his "grave" flaws.
Sure, you have a point, but the point was made a long time ago.
I've already signed up to go to the tour coming to my campus Monday April 14th, free copies of software is fine with me.
But's okay when Microsoft does it!
When I clicked into this story the ad on the page just happened to be for VS .Net. Try it today!
/. smart enough to do that on purpose?
Is
Still laughing...
-Matt
He is the Student Co-ordinator for Academic .Net. His name and email are on the business card that is given out to every single student that attends one of these conferences.
Some guy in my dorm must work for microsoft too. He gives out copies of everything that microsoft makes on CD for free. All the programs have names like Verbatim, Memorex, and CenDyne.
I've never heard of those programs, but they work for typing up term papers really well!
Man stops MS from giving away there software.
when asked, the person replied "well its obvious? I'm a pendantic ass".
well there you have it...
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
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Well the big deal is apparently that the CDs they gave out explicitly say: "Illegal without separate license" and since there was no separate license...well...
Personally I think it's microsoft's own software so they should be able to hand it out however they want without printing new cds if they want to give them away sans-license.
I find it interesting that somebody is going through all this trouble to find about the license. I would have kept a print of the e-mail from the MS rep that says it was OK to use the software for non-commercial use.
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
Does any one else feel this guy is being a little too "cautious", ie, it just wants to stir up more fuss over Microsoft? And hey, he made it on /.!
This sounds exactly like what happened to me at my University (UT Austin). I went to our Campus Computer store and bought the latest version of Office. I noticed that they made me sign an agreement that essentially said that I needed a separate license from MS once I graduate, and that I could get it from the place I bought the CDs. So, I asked the guys working at the store about getting this license, and after 10 minutes of talking and looking at stuff they just told me that I didn't actually need one. So, go figure. I have a signed agreement sayign that I need a license key and that Campus Computers would provide, and they said they didn't have to. I guess I am legit.
As someone who has distributed these CDs for Microsoft in the past, the license is contained WITHIN the actual install program. When you agree to the license (EULA) during install, there's your license. These CDs contain that disclaimer because Microsoft does not want to spend money bundling a separate license when the one in the installer will suffice.
The software that costs $109 *IS* the academic version of Visual Studio.Net. It is esentially VS.Net Pro, with a modifed license. When you buy the $109 academic version you are still not allowed to use it for non-commercial purposes, but Microsoft is giving away this software at the conferences instead of you paying $109.
If you want to use VS.Net for commercial purposes you have to buy the Professional edition which runs around a thousand dollars I think.
"Thank you for your interest in Microsoft products. In regards to your inquiry, our lawyers will be contacting you shortly with a court summons. Cheers, Microsoft."
Ok here what microsoft could be at: They will jump at freebie software and install and get beavering away. Later it hits them. Oh my god Im doing something ilegal, most shrug it off looking at the large amount of pirated media. Some will say, eeeeeeee must buy a liscence and give micro$haft money for a the license. Microsoft makes money out of group of students who wouldnt normally buy it. They belive there anti piracy stuff is getting better so people might want to upgrade from ilegal version to a new version in a few years (or half a decade.) Rake in some cash and hope that software they can no longer pirate is indespensible to these people. Of course good old microsoft cant make software that cant be pirated so that view is probably BS but im as bored as hell.
WinXPPro.torrent
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
At the top of this story, a content-targeted ad supplied by Google:
"Boss Stealing Software? Bust your boss. Report illegal software use." (Link goes to the BSA.)
The shareholder is always right.
I work for a major retail computer chain. We used to have training events with all kinds of software vendors (microsoft, mcafee, mgi, datavis, roxio, etc.) and they used to give out all kinds of free software so that we could try thier products in hopes that if we used them we would reccommend the software to our customers. Now, due to the current economy a lot of these training events have stopped, but even at the ones that still do occur (microsoft included) we dont get NEARLY the amount of handouts that we used to. Again, it could probably be argued that this is due to economic conditions, and I would agree if they were handing out keyboards or processors, but for the cost of them to manufacture a CD they dont lose money as compared to what they will make on our reccomendations to customers.
Anyway, back to my point. It seems to me that this guy is just trying to cause trouble for troubles sake, OR is trying to prove a point with regards to liscencing laws. While I agree with the sentiments, I DO NOT agree with the ammunition he is using for his fight.
All he is effectively doing is making these companies more gunshy to hand out free software to resellers like myself, or anyone else who attends training events like the one he did to get his software. The companies wont want to deal with a deluge of email like this, or go throught the trouble of making special key sets for promotional NFR (not for resale) software, etc. Actually, we USED to get software that was stamped NFR all over it, but they stopped this and started handing out "real" versions under volume lisences because there were more costs involved with producing NFR sets rather than using existing stock.
Youre looking a gift horse in the mouth and will end up ruining things for yourself and everyone else just to prove a point!
They never gave out any pirate software at the VS.NET demonstrations at my uni - people had to use their own CD-Rs.
yes, I'm joking.
I don't believe it's possible for someone to pirate their own software.
Well, aren't you all in a jolly good mood!?
Microsoft deserves a little spaking now and then (you know they do), and this guy's obviously just having a little fun with them. His nitpicking is humorous - at least I had a good laugh.
Think of it as a comic relief, not as some sort of an obnixious remark from a cranky user. And stop whining.
-$|{
Not that I read such things, but I was under the impression that an EULA was a license. Please explain the difference. Id be happy to start selling free/open software if I can ignore the requirement that it be attributed as such - no serial number, no paper, so no license right?
Where in Ireland do they have these conferences? I want .net
For fuck sake itll take 3 months to download it on 56k
The real problem isn't that Microsoft is giving out free software. It isn't a problem that they can give software out for free and not require a license.
The real problem is that when the feds come knocking on your door, you aren't going to have a license for that CD and they're going to bust you for it. Microsoft isn't going to help you then, unless for some reason they kept a list of names of people to whom they distributed the CDs.
--------
It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
Uh, I think FreeBSD is UNIX, if it's a BSD. My understanding is that BSD code is UNIX and software actually derived from the AT&T sources is also UNIX. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of nuance and someone will point it out in great detail.
In the same way that I have $50,000 stolen from me every year, you know.
Someone stole $20,000 from me and diverted the funds to the IRS. Someone else stole $10,000 from me and diverted it to Safeway, Albertson's, and Bob's IGA. And I lost another $20,000 to miscellaneous companies in my area.
The culprit? My wife and that damned checkbook.
I'm sure the SPA finds billions and billions of dollars of pirated software. You know. Microsoft pirates McAfee, McAfee pirates Norton, and Norton pirates Microsoft. It's just a good ol' boy network funding each others' habits and getting lawmakers to pass laws requiring those of us outside the little ring of buddies to fund their five-week Hawaii management seminars.
fifth sigma, inc.
This guy could make a hundred copies of that CD, hand them and the key out to his friends, but if there was a license, only one would have that legal document proving ownership. A CD and a key number don't prove legal ownership.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Absolutely. Now Microsoft has a list of people who they can audit and definately find that they are using illegal unlicencesed software. A claim that someone at M$ told you that pirating was OK is hardly going to be a defense.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
You WHINE about the fact that there was no paper license.
You claim to EXTEND the lack-of-license to every other microsoft product?
You then think it's okay to make copies of this disk and give it out to everyone.
Fuck man, I wish I had your troubles. Unlike losers like yourself I have to pay for Microsoft software I use.
an anonymous soource, known only as 1337 dud3, how he felt about this issues, he responded with:
"Man. this shit sucks. I bust my ass to download cracks for there key, then bust my ass to put their stuff out on kazaa, now there giving away there software? wtf? Man microsoft sucks, and this is just another example of how the stick it to the little pir^H^H^H guy."
The is Walter Kronkite saying "Sucks to be you."
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
a lot of the people I went with to the toronto presentation had problems with their CD-Keys, as did I. When we all finally got our replacement keys, we were happy to find out that they didn't need to be activated!
Serously, is Microsoft intentionally trying to make it easy for us, or what?(although I can't really complain about having .Net studio on both my home rig and my laptop)
Microsoft -- get yo warez here!
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
"Slashdot...will be converted into hotornot2.com"
Hopefully few (if any) of the members of the current site will be allowed to post on the new one...
Don't forget... the makers of vi and Emacs coordinate to make a uber-editor and there are no more vi/emacs flame wars...
Generally the end user has to prove their innocence to avoid costs beyond the audit. A piece of email from an employe, who may or may not work at M$ when the next campus crack down occurs, is not helpful. No one messes with students, right?
Wrong. In case you missed it, four students are looking at $97,000,000,000 in RIAA fines for indexing other student's windoze shares. Who's to say the BSA is not going to sweep campuses next looking for unauthoized versions of M$ Word or the elusive NOT.NET?
It's issues like this that keep me away from comercial software. It was never really worth the cost and now it's not worth the trouble. 14ghz should just forget about that CD collection and look into software with a more promissing future.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
I left a few minutes early and they said they'd mail us VS.NET because they couldn't find it.
Seriously though, why would you be such a biatch to someone who's trying to do something FOR you. She helped coordinate the event that gave you FREE food (although those wraps were a funky colour), FREE software, and FREE sessions.
Oh well, I've read enough complaining in this post already; it's about time I stop contributing to it. I can't believe this made the front page.
My university is in the MSDNAA (I suppose) but when I went down to get WinXP they said I could only borrow it for a night and install (by that I think they implied copy) the program then bring it back. That's a hassle, now I have to stock up (by which I mean install) on all the microsoft stuff I want during finals because I was too lazy to do it then.
For other people at MSDNAA schools: does it work this way for you or do you actually get media to keep?
I've seen licensing for academic software that had the non-commercial only restriction, so that isn't surprising. It usually applies to languages, j++, visual c++, .net studio, etc. The idea is that the student should be able to use the language to learn it, write apps for class, etc., but if you want to write a commercial application you should buy the full commercial version.
All windows software is shareware... You've just got to find someone to share it with ;)
Check out this
Amendment to Master End-User License Agreement (For the Microsoft Developer Network Academic Alliance Program)
This amendment (the "Amendment") to the Master End-User License Agreement for the Microsoft Developer Network Subscription (the "EULA") is a legal agreement between Microsoft Corporation ("Microsoft") and a Qualified Educational User approved by Microsoft for participation in the Microsoft Developer Network Academic Alliance Program ("MSDN Academic Alliance Program"). This Amendment allows for the not-for-profit instructional and non-commercial research use by a Qualified Educational User (as hereinafter defined) of the Product provided under the EULA. This Amendment further allows the Qualified Educational User to utilize the Product for the not-for-profit design, development and testing of software applications or hardware created by Qualified Educational User. Product includes subscription UPDATES provided by Microsoft (as defined in the EULA).
"The 'v-' at the beginning is, IIRC, Microspeak for 'not a Microsoft employee'."
I think that the proper term is "Astro-turfer"!
another loser with too much time on his hands. get a grip.
You can obtain a media kit for just about any Microsoft product by calling your local Microsoft Product Fulfillment sales office. Most of the kits cost $24.95. That includes things like Windows 2000 Server, Exchange 2000 Server, etc. Any software media you get this way will be marked "Unlicensed Software -- Illegal Without Separate License From Microsoft".
The general idea here is that software -- all software -- is licensed independently of the media it comes on. For example, if you lose or damage your Windows install CD, you can order a replacement for a small fee. The license that you purchased originally is still valid, and is what counts.
These CDs are also used with the various volume licensing programs (Open, Select, and so on) that Microsoft offers. Basically, you order licenses for your organization separately, and then order however many media kits you want or need. You can find more information on these programs at http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/.
Now, as far as these discs go: Without a separate license agreement, they are not legal to use. It sure sounds to me that no such license agreement was distributed. I would be very careful about using such media unless I received an agreement.
The fact that some marketing dweeb at Microsoft handled them out is not enough. The fact that the same dweeb said it was okay is not enough, either. A dweeb is not a legal license agreement. Those facts would give you plausible denial in court, and likely decide the case in your favor, but it would have to go to court.
Finally, I doubt Microsoft has any nefarious intentions here. I suspect that Microsoft is just like any other large company, and that as such, they employ people (like this marketing dweeb) who don't understand that software licensing is a legal contract. I'm sure it never occurred to him that he was doing something wrong. Most people don't think before they pirate software. Heck, far too many people don't think, period.
The fact that Microsoft's own people have this problem is certainly ironic, and highlights just how crazy the world of software licensing is.
Zealots, please note: Free/Open Source Software is still licensed. You need to very carefully understand your rights and obligations under a software license, be it a Microsoft EULA, the BSD license, or the GPL. Failure to do so may open you up to legal problems, regardless. (Go ahead and incorporate some GPL code into a closed product, and see how the FSF reacts.)
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Yes, Microsoft is free to give away their own software. That's not the point here. The point is, are the recipients allowed to *use* it?
For example, what happens when the BSA comes a-knockin' and finds this unlicensed copy of Visual Studio? Is the defense "MS gave it to me for free" going to work? And even if it does, how much time and money is it going to take to prove it?
...to the University of Calgary. The license need not be represented by one of those nifty little certificates with intricate graphics, numbers and holograms all over it. It is entirely possible that in return for letting MS put on its dog-and-pony show microsoft granted some sort of volume licensing deal with the UofC.
I agree with the article that "Sasha" (the MS point-of-contact for the student tour) is out of the loop concerning licensing issues--understandable since keeping everything straight is something akin to brain surgery and rocket science. Sasha might reply after talking to one of the MS High Priests of Licensing saying as much as I've stated above.
If in doubt, ultimately I'd talk to the UofC's Computing Services department--or the departments of Computing Science or Computer Engineering--to inquire about how student licensing works (ie it it technically property of the U of C and you only buy the media--or whatever).
I don't know how it works at the U of C, but at the U of Alberta bookstore, you didn't need to be a student to buy most anything there, but for software it was a different story--you needed to present a valid, current student ID card and fill out documentation before you could cart your purchase home.
It was many years ago when I did that (1996), however when I bought MS Office it didn't come with the same licensing documentation (certificate, registration postcards, etc) that retail (or even OEM) software was packed with. Perhaps that meant it was licensed to the U of A for use by all students who bought the media. However I didn't really care then about the legal details of licensing at the time. Come to think of it, I don't now either. I don't purposely go out of my way to "steal" MS software, but it gets legally murky when your software library from MS is a mishmash of retail, OEM, NFR copies obtained from being a former "MS Partner" and student editions. If I worried about it I'd get ulcers and never have time to do real work.
I'm unemployed, you insensitive clod!
No, really. I'd install it all day on lots computers. Later, if they paid me enough, I might even support the IDE for it.
Get off my launchpad!
You know! One of those clowns who posted all over the Internet, "I am a beta-tester for Windows "XXX", I have been using it for 6 weeks now, and I tell you, it hasn't crashed on me once!"!
"XXX" stands for Windows XP, 2000, ME, 98, 95 or 3.11!!! Not to mention all the MS Offices!!!
that MS will just sue all the people that they gave the discs to once they install the software.
SIGFAULT
I used to be the asst. manager at my campus computer store, and dealt both with MS and our "MS approved vendor" of MS Academic Alliance CD's. Couple of side points about them:
a) They are a pain in the ass. We went through four vendors and every one of them took over a month to fill an order. Come to find out, it was MS's delay in approving the sale.
b) The licenses are deliberately shady (IMHO). We (the university) purchased a bundled license for Operating Systems, Office suites, and VS. They all included Professional versions, so that was fine. The Shady part, was that MS and their vendor allowed a purchase of 500+ copies of NT Advanced Server (which is not included in the OS liscence pack apparently). 2 years after the purchase, we get audited by MS and whose fault was it? Ours of course, but they fined the university a shit ton of money, with no grace period to purchace the licenses we needed first.
c) They change all the time. Our campus licence stated that it was okay to burn copies for Faculty use ON CAMPUS ONLY. This past year, I specifically called my MS rep (who was most likely a third party vedor rep) to ask them specifically if I can burn copies of Non-Keyed CD's for use on campus. Thats Fine (got it in writing faxed to me). Now a month later (during the audit above) they find burnt copies laying around in offices, and shit their pants. They issued a new license to us, an voided the old one. and that's no longer allowed. Faculty used to be able to buy a CD and take it home, legally. That changed at the same time. If they wanted to take it home, they had to buy a student copy.
These may seem pretty petty, but they caused me ALOT of headaches while I was working there. They caught us in a trap, whether it was deliberate or not, and we still had to pay. It can happen.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
And my CDs have a key on the back of a CD cover, but no paper informing me of the license document anywhere.
.net was for people programming for cross-platform apps, but never once mentioned that .net doesn't run on Windows 98 if you are the developer.
Although the presentation was good, they didn't plan on having so many people show up in Regina, and didn't have enough food ready. And through the whole thing they were selling how great
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
UNIX and Unix aren't the same thing :-) Unix is a style and/or a family of operating systems, including the commercial Unixes, the BSDs and (at least possibly) the Linuxes. UNIX is a trademark and a brand name, owned by the Open Group, and operating systems which pass the branding process - in effect, which are provably compatible with the published POSIX/Unix standards - are granted the right to use the brand. So NT with the right layered stuff may be UNIX, but it certainly isn't Unix, while Linux is Unix, but no Linux distro (and it would have to be a distro) is UNIX.
At least, that's how I see things :-)
Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
For all the arguments of piracy this strikes me quite odd. One side claims that the flagrant piracy of software is costing people jobs by in turn denying a company of their due income. Yet, here they are distributing free copies of their software asking to only have them purchase a license or allegedly get an email from M$ stating its okay to use without a valid license. Is this a hypocrisy or a setup for when M$ can more aggressively check for and prosecute software/OS pirates?
How can you justify any loss in revune from software and/or license not being paid for when you are distributing it yourself for free? What would be the difference, aside from a cushy M$ paycheck, if other copies of M$ software and OSes were distributed with the same neat little lable about naughty you for using this? When making claims of incredible losses such as the RIAA claims, do they take into account all freebies that have been given out?
Who do these laws that these huge rich companies have bought in Congress apply to and how does one go about getting on the immunity list!
-1 Overrated (Too many big words for me to comprehend)
If it were not for the rampant pirating of Windows and Office, Microsoft would not be the monopoly it is today. Just using Microsoft software helps them, even if you didnt pay for it, because if you're using their software then your not using their competitors' software.
MySQL offers you dual licenses of commercial and GPL. When MS gave away those products under their own dual license those bashers complain, and when MySQL does the same thing no one (but RMS himself) complain about that.
But it's still interesting to know license document itself has no obligatory power on users, but something to publish and attest intent of those who give license, possibly at court. That MS gave them at conference, is implicit licensing.
Nobody here seems to "get it".
Think about the precident this could set and damage this could do to Microsoft. The next time Microsoft wants to prosecute someone for using software without a license, this occurance could be used as evidence that Microsoft does not have a firm and uniform policy on the importance of software licensing.
This, from the company who's entire - let me repeat that - ENTIRE business model is built around the assertion that possesion of little certificate is proof that one have the right to use their product. And, who's EULA reserves them the right to pop surprise inspections on their customers and fine them for software who's certificate can not be produced.
If pursued, this could have lasting repurcussions.
From the "really really struggling to bash MS today but having a hard time with it" department?
The name 'UNIX' is copyrighted by AT&T, or something.
This is how they determine how many CDs, and DVDs get pirated every year. For everyone that got accepted chalk one up for piracy!
First you people moan that Mircrosft software is overpriced, then they GIVE YOU FREE STUFF and after your pointless prattering emails to Microsoft they tell you quite bluntly IT'S OK TO USE IT but you still kick up a fuss.
Jesus fucking christ you people are never happy. Always moan moan moan.
But, since you posted it to slashdot, we will never see the true ending.
Right now there is an MS Army of PR reps and lawyers looking at how to respond to this.
Enjoy
It's just the normal noises in here.
Those papers Microsoft gives out are "End User License Agreements" and "Certificate[s] of Authenticity", they are not "Licences".
The EULA says you must have a licence, but it doesn't say what constitutes a license.
The best evidence you can provide of licensing is a receipt for the software from an authorized retailer. Otherwise you can hold up all the Certificates of Authenticity, original media and EULAs you want and you still could have bought the package from Bob down the street... which violates the terms of the EULA.
an ass that hangs from your neck?
is this an asshat you can take off and put on again later without losing it? Great idea!
If you notice all the emails from Sasha to Lance, it states "Sasha Krsmanovic (ManPower)"
Manpower is a consulting firm.
This is obviously the new Microsoft tactic for busting student pirates:
- Hand out software with no provable license;
- Wait a few months, then accuse the people it was handed to of piracy;
- Use the evidence to get raids/investigation started against them;
- If the student had other pirated stuff, the investigation will found out about it;
- If they didn't, the investigation will find the canary VB.NET, and MS can then drop charges.
Why would Microsoft print CD's that they then label as unlicensed and illegal. What does Microsoft do with these discs? When you buy a license can you cross out that part of the label and that will somehow hold up in court. Why make the discs in the first place if they are just going to label them illegal.
A potential nitpick:
correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as this student is not using VS.NET for commercial purposes, there is no way the BSA will bust down the doors! Is there?
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
How then can they sue people for pirating software, if it's only the unlicensed USE of that software that is illegal? Quite the double standard, no?
Now I know I can use those CDs CowBoyNeal gave me.
You can register to attend one of these events (if you're a student)here. I registered for the one in Philly.
hooray! it's a sex wiki
You stupid jerks. I know that /. isn't supposed to be impartial but you took an email thread between a user and a sales rep and transformed it to "Microsoft Pirating its own Software?" You dirty louses there isn't a shred of proof or even credible sources, how do you know this page isn't complete fiction? Even when attacking companies we hate I expect to see some sort of credibility and evidence... This is the worst story that's ever reached your front page.
They wrote the software, they can give it away, and give people permission to use it without a license if they so choose. Although it might be in their best interests to have done so in writing.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
A lot of the responses to this story basically accuse the web-page poster of pedandtry and nickpickism, or trying to embarrass Microsoft for what could be described as an oversight (and one they made while attempting to be, or at least to appear, generous -- in a straightforwardly self-interested kinda way).
... look, we inquired a while ago when we noticed we didn't have some of our licenses handy, but one of your employees sent us an email. Want me to print it out?")
:)
That's not the big problem, really -- because it's not that they made a little slip up, it's that Microsoft is extremely selective about claimed valuation (is a pack of 6 CDs worth $130 if it's given away en masse to students around the country? What is the sound one one hand clapping?) and license enforcement.
For instance: what would Microsoft have said to the fellow in charge of Virginia Beach's IT dept if he had attempted the same thing from the other direction? ("Oh, don't worry, yeah, we bought licenses, it's all OK
(Story one,
story two)
I don't think that would have worked
Now, (micromanagement by the USDOJ aside) Microsoft should be free to give away all the software they want, and (IMO) can charge as much or as little as they want for it, license as freely or tightly as they want, but it's *not* fair play to act as if a casual "yup, it's OK" is fine in some cases while a rigorous, affirmative proof is needed in others.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
And someone with a 5xx,xxx Slashdot ID will become pro-Linux.
If you can read this, you are breaking the law.
-BSA
Every person called Lance needs to be punched extremely hard in the face.
Ahh, this poor boy is one of the unwashed masses who has been trained to think that you need a license to use a piece of software.
Well guess what, YOU DON'T! You are in posession of the software, given to you in a legal fashion. You may use the software in any way you wish (including installing it on your computer and loading it into RAM, which is EXPLICITLY allowed by copyright law!). You may NOT distribute copies, which is explicitly prohibited by copyright law.
Since it didn't come with a license, you have the basic rights everyone has under copyright law, which are the same ones you have with a CD, a book, a poster, a DVD, etc...
I repeat: software licenses are used to add (or remove, unfortunately) from the basic rights afforded by copyright law. If you didn't receive a license, and you lawfully received the software, that's the END OF THE STORY.
If you're afraid of the BSA (which you shouldn't because they are a bunch of cowardly thugs), just print out the first email the MS-drone sent you, and be done with it.
One more time: just because Microsoft, Adobe, etc, have you trained like a monkey to kiss their ring whenever you need to install or run software, doesn't mean that's how it is. Even the GPL explicitly says that it doesn't cover RUNNING the software.
MS gave the MSUG at my school 100 similarly marked CDs for XP Pro. While I'm not in MSUG, I went to one of their meetings, and they gave me a copy. Half the CS department has them. Anyone else have similar experiences at their schools?
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
His University almost certainly has an academic license so he could have gotten the CD without attending the recruiting seminar. From his CS department or academic computing office, whatever their setup is. So they weren't worth 109 CND, prolly $1+(RIAA tax) for the blank CDROMs he may have needed to bring to his CS department. It's strange that the MS employee didn't just say, "Hey you're covered by the university license while you're matriculated." My university got a free MSDN subscription, a million bucks, plus government matching funds to sign up for the MS licensing, I think in these hard times many will sign up. Some public universities may be barred from dealing with MS due to contracting laws, but private universities can deal with convict corps so long as they aren't involnved in the wrongdoing.
IANAL, but it's not just obnoxious, it's illegal- regardless of whether you obscure the names. Unless I specify otherwise, any communication I send you is intended for you, and you only. If you forward it to someone else, or, say, post it online for all to read, I can sue you. It's quite similar to how you may not tape-record a conversation without my permission.
Unless the content is quite obviously harmless, I ask the permission of the sender before forwarding a message from them to a mailing list(or cc'ing others in a reply that contains part of their comments, quoted.) It is at the very least considered good manners.
MS could quite easily slap him with a cease-and-desist letter, although it'd probably draw even more attention to the matter, one which, at the very least, seems almost entirely pointless and will be forgotten in a day or two.
Please help metamoderate.
Poor Lance is already in violation of the restrictions on the media they gave him... he made an illegal copy and posted it on the Internet.
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
At least, when MS was handing out academic copies at the affair I attended, it certainly came with the piece of paper that had all the legalities of how I could use the software.
And yes, there is no way that his MS contact has the authority to single handedly overrule MS's business processes. The MS employee saying it is alright in no way protects the user. If the secretary told you it was alright to loot the safe, *you* are still the one that goes to jail...
That having been said, it's pretty obvious that MS would never bother with hunting anyone down. It's completely a matter of a point of principle. All that happened was that the MS rep forgot the separate piece of paper with the license and is trying to forge a practical, if not legally binding, solution.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This year's Compaq (HP) CodeWars, which took place March 1st, also gave out Microsoft software -- Microsoft Windows XP Professional -- with the same intimidating message on the front. As soon as I was handed the CD, I saw the notice and asked the lady who gave it to me about a license. She said that in a few days we will be mailed a license plus extra software -- we even filled out little registration cards at the event supposedly for this purpose.
My whole team has decided to wait until then, but we've still not received anything from them. Our shiny Windows XP is still gathering dust with no license.
I bought Rallisport Challenge a few weeks ago and when I pulled the 3 CD's out of the cardboard sleeves the 3rd disc was scratched.
FWIW I bought it from buy.com and it was a new copy.
So I called Microsoft. They asked for the CD Set number and I gave it to them. They then mailed me out a new set of CD's. They arrived in less then a week.
On a side note, did this keep me from playing?
Hell no. I had been playing the game for 2 weeks before buying it anyways. I bought it because it was a good game without any major hiccups on my system. It passed my quality test so I spent money on it.
Anyways, the CD's arrived and they are all good to go and everything. But there is something interesting I took notice of.
First off the CD's come in a plastic sleeve with no license to speak of. They have written on the CD's themselves (white backrgound with black letters I think, they cannot be mistaken for the CD's I got from Buy.Com) 'Unlicensed Software. Illegal without License. Do Not Copy'. of course this isn't the same thing as this article, I had the license from the copy I bought.
But the other weird thing, the thing I am writing this reply about is this. Disks 2 and 3 were both normal silver pressed CD's.
Disc 1 has a green tint to it. It looks an awful lot like a CDR type disk. Almost like Microsoft doesn't pre-prints disks 2 and 3 but writes disk 1 as it needs.
Anyone have any ideas on what the dealio is with this?
Call me paranoid, but I came up with one idea.
What if Micro$oft puts some sort of ID number on those disks. I image it and post it and they find it on the newsgroups and know it was me?
I wouldn't put that kind of sneaky, technically legal kind of behavior past Microsoft. After all the attacked elementary schools in Oregon why not university students.
However I really doubt this is a trap. Dot Net is a hurting piece of technology that offers very little advantage to anyone except people who are already tied into a microsoft solution.
Most articles that I have read have suggested that companies take a "wait and see" approach before adopting dot net. Of course if every body listened to this advice then few would adopt the new frameworks and the whole thing can fizzle worse than the XBox. I think that Microsoft is going to follow their old strategy of giving to away for cheap, until people depend on it then crank up the price.
AINL, If Microsoft is giving away these discs without making you agree to any kind of license (purchase contract), you can do just about anything you want to with them, including commerical use. I doubt the note on the top that about use of software is illegal is really applicable. After all, without a license, MS's only legal protection is copyright.
MS seems to be taking the opposite stance, that without a license, the person who was given the software can't do anything MS doesn't want them to do. I would love to hear on what legal basis or precedent that belief comes from!
A classic case of 'do as we say, not as we do.'
"Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
"How then can they sue people for pirating software, if it's only the unlicensed USE of that software that is illegal?"
Unlicensed distribution is illegal, too.
Any software is a copyrighted work. As such, you need the permission of the copyright holder before you can distribute (make copies) of it. Software pirates lack such permission, and thus are liable for copyright infringement -- a serious crime today, thanks to the large corporations which own so many valuable copyrights.
Microsoft does not sell copies of their software. They sell licenses. They retain full ownership of the copyrighted work. They sell you a license to use said copyrighted work. You only own the license (which can be terminated), not the software itself.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
sometime in early March last year. I had the same concern and I didn't install any of the stuff I got until some time later I read on MS's site that the software was licensed. They also gave out Visual Studio .NET Academic t-shirts, a free full copy of WinXP Pro (using it on my gaming machine), some mints in a strange tin that you have to press on the top to open and squeeze the sides to lock (mmmm... mints), a Visual Studio .NET pen and I can't remember what else. In short, this story is a false alarm, MS does a lot of evil stuff, but this isn't a case of it.
/.
Wow, I never thought I'd be defending MS, especially on
Without a spesific license, the software would revert to standard fair use. You can copy the software for yourself and your family as much as you want, but can't distribute it en masse.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Microsoft isn't at fault here. Good grief, all everyone here does is complain about Microsoft's draconian licensing system, then when they try and give something away they get jumped all over.
I mean, geeze. In that e-mail exchange the story linked to, one participant wasn't making sense, and it certainly wasn't Microsoft. 'Here, have this software' 'There's no license' 'Well you can use it for non-commercial use' 'Just this software?'. That last one kills me; he knows perfectly well that 'for that single piece of software we gave you you don't need a license' doesn't imply in any way that he doesn't need a license for ANY Microsoft software ever again. Don't try to make it sound like MS is being all contradictory.
NT
That's an important point, even if you don't seem to think so.
I'm not defending this particular guy, but free as in beer is an important distinction that you fail to appreciate. You suggest that making a distinction etween freedom of beer and freedom of speech is something only jerks do.
Please don't do that. This particular guy does not represent the majority of free software enthusiasts.
their
If you're going to pick nits, don't hold back at just one.
Any other grammar Nazi's to comment?
Hey, they gave it to you and you verified.. Dont push it, or they will take it away from everyone.
Besides its their software, they CAN change the rules and give it away.. Dont bitch, its free, geeze.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Although it was wise for the submitter to check whether he was on solid legal grounds, it seems most uncivil of him to bring all this attention to the employee over such a relatively minor matter as this. Sasha seemed to be handling the problem with all expediency, and I imagine the issue would have been resolved had submitter merely waited and continued to correspond with him. Now tens of thousands of people know about this and Sasha risks getting in trouble with his superiors.
Submitting the site to slashdot was unjustified in light of how the problem was being handled, and it was a breach of trust on the part of the submitter.
and it's sure as hell not illegal.
and btw -- you can definitely tape-record a conversation as long as ONE of the parties involved gives their consent... this means the recipient of a call may record the conversation despite the objections of the caller. (otherwise, answering machines would be illegal... duh!)
quit making up your own laws.
was it wise foir him to keep her contact info on there?
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
what a f**king retard. Why did he make a stupid webapge of all of this stupid ass non-sense.
The simple meaning of it all, microsoft gave out free software to it's users for going to the tour. Those cd's were probably made to waste cd and burn time... or maybe they were made from some silly reason I DUNNO ?!?. retard. retard. retard. f**k what it says on the cd. Breaking the law? no, your breaking the EULA. And if microsoft says i don't care(by handing our the software), then you don't care either. Retard. retard.retard. If someone is this stupid, im going to call the cops on him and tell them he has illegal software. And watch them laugh at the guy for being a moron. sigh i don't even want to write anything because this person that is posting the emails obviously has a low iq or no common sense. needs to get a life.
Yup, this is indeed the case. Nothing to get worked up about, as much fun as it might be.
Sasha's last response went like this:
Hi Lance
I am going to forward your request to my managers. Please stay tuned, I will get back at you ASAP.
Sounds like he's gonna sic the ms lawyers on you for messing with him. =)
If you want .Net so bad, the .Net Framework SDK is free. Go download it @ http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url= /downloads/list/netdevframework.asp. If you needs docs, the .Net Framework SDK Documentation is online and free as well. Command line compiling has it's adavantages; ask any *nix person. Plus, VS.Net (the SDK) is way slow, IMHO. Too much of it is interpreted.
Spread the RC luvin'
If MS is writing of the $109 for every copy of this software they give away, but are not in fact giving away the part of the software (license) that's worth the $109, wouldn't that be fraud?
Yes, software is like drugs.
You give it away or sell it very cheap, until your enough customers are hooked.
Then you raise prices.
Remember piracy is the best thing that has ever happened to Microsoft.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I attended the Visual Studio .NET launch about a year ago in NYC. They gave me a copy of Windows XP and a stack of VS.NET Academic Edition CDs, along with a single piece of paper with lots of small print legalese on it.
I immediately installed VS.NET on my machine and played with it for a while, but a hard drive crash a few weeks later forced me to reinstall everything. When i installed VS.NET again (all 4.5GB of it!), it made me call MS to re-activate the software. The MS dude on the other end of the line called over his manager, who gave me his fax # and said i need to fax him the license for the software. By that time, i had no idea where the little sheet with all the small print on it went...
So that's why i use gcc now.
Take a camera picture of the data side of CD.
Post it on the net.
???
Sued BY microsoft!
Customer A naively interprets this as "it's ok to install another copy on the second system." The person already has a CD and doesn't want to spend 8 hours downloading the game. The game is installed on the second computer and off they go.
the question now is "did the customer violate the copyright?" Well that's not a clear picture. For a copyright to be enforcible, it is up to the company to make sure it has uniform licensing, which is truthful and not deceptive. Would an average user consider this case "confusing" with "mixed messages"? Hell yes. The only way a company can make sure their copyright and licensing is air-tight is to include explicit exemptions that cover online versions. If the game license states something like, "this game can only be installed on one system. installation of the free version must be downloaded from the website and this license is not transferrable to free versions." then they are covered. Having no license doesn't necessarily constitute a "inconsistency" or "un-truthful advertising", but it definitely blurs the lines and creates confusion.
has anyone read the emails between them on the link? all i can say is get a life - and i just did so there ya go.
At $150,000.00 per copy, they probably figure it make more sense to let the BSA resolve any licensing issues with the software.
-- Many men would appreciate a woman's mind more if they could fondle it
They gave you a copy of the software. It doesn't matter what the front of the CD says, that copy is yours. Use it however you want.
Why does this sound like some little stuck up college kid who thinks they know it all trying to make some point and get back at Microsoft because they are the "big and bad corporation".
Making a point is all fine and dandy but being an ass about it is not. And what exactly is this kids point besides being an annoying kid and nagging a microsoft rep?
GG Microsoft... totally ignore your own EULA's and other such documents!!
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
Almost two years ago, when I graduated from school with an IT degree, I purchased the laptop I used for classes and got a license and media for Windows NT and Microsoft Office. I believe I also got a license for Win 98 and Visual Studio 6 (with no media, but it was installed on the laptop). I signed a release/annex stating that I received all of these, and I believe that they were to be used for learning purposes only. So maybe this is the license issue done the right way. Like a lot of the campers who posted on this topic, I am leary of MS just giving people the software and not having them sign an annex or release, just to cover everyone's bases. BTW, I do use the Office SW, I had to buy a copy of VS for my own use, and the NT CDs are on the verge of becoming coasters, as I have Win 2k on my Windoze machines, including the laptop.
Always look on the briight side of life! (whistle, whistle)
Here's what hosting CIS Society's president post today (scroll down) on society's web forum:
"Microsoft has also issued the CISS rights to duplicate and hand out almost everything that Microsoft makes to students. You will hear more about this in the very near future. THIS INCLUDES ALL OPERATING SYSTEMS SUCH AS WINDOWS 2003 WHEN IT IS RELEASED!"
That sounds absolutely incorrect. Have you ever heard of investigative journalism?
I don't know what the exact state of the law is in the US, but certainly where I am (New Zealand) it's fully legal to record and/or disclose a private conversation as long as at least one of the participants is aware that it's happening. The exception is if there's a legally binding agreement between the parties that restricts disclosure.
Having said that, I agree that it's not very polite to disclose the name of the Microsoft employee on these emails. There's no need in this case except to embarass someone who probably doesn't deserve to be embarassed.
that you're a fag.
Mod up the parent post. Valid point overlooked by the story poster and everyone else.
...Kazaa!
RMS was caught pirating his own GNU software at a tradeshow.
http://saveie6.com/
Hey listen, if you're really worried about the licensing, feel free to send the CD's my way.
.net stuff for free. Cool.
If someone from MS is giving me 8 CD's full of software & telling me that I can use it for free, I'm going to keep my big mouth shut except to say thank you. Why bother questioning the freaking license. If there was a problem, believe me, MS would not be handing out discs.
Non-commercial use is OK by me. So I can learn
Huh?
I think you mean "tsk, tsk, tsk".
Its not like he'll be able to do anything for you and he wasn't involved in making the decision about how the software was distributed. Why make his job hard? How would you like it if he did the same to you? This kind of venting and frustrion just make things harder for the rest of us. Get a life dude...
Several years ago, a MS representative came to address the ACM chapter at my university. At the end of his presentation he raffled off a few copies of MS Visual Studio -- full, retail versions, no academic or "non-commercial" license. Afterwards, a few kids looked kinda disappointed they didn't win anything. The rep then pulled aside the kids who won and said "Please make sure that these CDs reproduce. No one at Microsoft is going to care." -- direct quote.
He then went on to explain that the whole point of the workshop was to "hook" college kids on MS software so when we go off to work or start our own businesses, we're Microsoft fanboys. I'm really glad someone is finally holding Microsoft to their own standards.
If he doesn't want free software given to him at a free seminar, he should just throw it in the dumpster and quit wasting other people's time.
No! Money down!
There's another phrase for when a company pirates it's own software.
It's called "legitimate and legal use".
oops.
It's been a long time.
If you go to the Instructor's sessions, they are giving away XP Pro (with the same license) and a great c# text.
Anybody got the number for the Redmond department of BSA?
God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
MS is just trying to provide this software to students so they can use it, try it, recommend it, ... for free.
Can't we take a good gesture as a good gesture (not that I don't think MS has an alterior motive other than "distribute their software")?
The guy (Sasha) didn't do anything wrong. He shouldn't have to be held under this much of a microscope for what he had said in emails.
Please quote what statute makes the use of these CD's, sans license, illegal. Because it says so on the front of the CD?
The battle over the legality of software licensing seems already lost, since everyone here just assumes you REQUIRE a license to use software. How is this any different from software that includes a license that is more or less ignored now anyway?
and so, when this person leaves college in 3 months - and brings that computer from school back home.. or worse, takes it with him to his first post-college job....
and during a BSA sweep...
you get the picture.
fscking Microsoft cannot break the rules any more than anyone else. The marketroid knob that gave out these disks is flat-out no-way around it gawddamned pirate, and the BSA should be contacted about this guy's ass and have him ass raped by them and sent to pound-me-in-the-ass prison like all the other pirates (argh) that redistribute software without proper licenses.
Replace "asshole from Microsoft" with "asshole from the Sigma Chi house" - and it doesn't change a damn thing.. its illegal in both cases.
and if you think i sound pissed - think about how pissed Microsoft would get if someone did this with their software that didn't work for them?
If they play hardball and asshole - then WE need to do it to.. to keep everyone honest.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
I went to the same event in Edmonton AB and noticed the same thing with the CDs they handed out there.
On a completely different note, they sure didn't make it easy to use the software. Before you could even begin installing anything off the CD you had to download and install updates from the MS site. Then you had to install reboot and configure a Remote Debugging software package simply to allow for another piece of software to install correctly. Once that other piece was installed (I can't even remember what it was off hand), you had to reconfigure and then uninstall the remote debugging toolkit. Then you could actually begin by inserting CD#1. 8 CDs (and I can't even count how many reboots) later VS.NET was finally up-and-running.
Now it's just a matter of configuring it and figuring out how the whole thing works...
It's too much trouble for MS to keep track of their own licenses. If it's too much trouble for them, why should we bother?
This is habitually distributing unlicensed software. It specifically says it's unlicensed, and the reps are too lazy to provide real licenses. The college Dean's response was right.
Keeping track of licenses is a huge pain. In a large company that has acquired other companies, it becomes nearly impossible. Nonetheless, we're acccountable to the BSA for everything without exception. It's too much trouble for MS to bother paying any attention to licenses though.
This is laziness bordering on incompetence. I don't know why I'm surprised.
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
Mod parent up. The 1st paragraph explains precisely what the issue is. Copyright permissions are NOT EULAs.
I have plenty of Microsoft CD's like this. It's to keep people from reselling the CDs (e.g. on ebay). How can they pirate their own software, they have the copyright and can do whatever they want. I swear to god you people need to get a (another) hobby.
It is illegal for a company to give something for free and then request payment after the fact. Is is the same in the Axis of evil ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H USA?
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
I had a friend who was an intern with microsoft and got TONS of free software to give out. He had literally boxes and boxes of Windows XP and various other pieces of software to give out at talks he would hold at the university in his capacity as intern. Not all, but most of the software he had was exactly like this. easily a half dozen software titles from microsoft without a license and carryin g a sticker on the sleeve saying it was illegal to use without a license.
The software I received was Visual Studio .NET Academic (Which, as I understand, is Pro with extra student tools and a different license.) and a copy of WinXP Pro.
The VS.net came packed in with a license, but the Windows XP CD had the above-mentioned disclaimer. I assumed that the "separate license" they mention is the license that comes with the Visual Studio package - it covers both pieces of software.
Either way, I'm not too worried. I'm a single end-user, with a legit key and legit CD. Sure, I may not have a specific piece of paper attesting to the legality of my Windows, but I still have far more than many people...
± 29 dB
Seems like a molehill of beans to me. The license is contained on the CD - you can print it out if you want. By installing the software you agree to the license terms. And multiple use is not OK, for the simple reason that you need to register the product with Microsoft in order to be able to use it. Consider the eval software you can download from Microsoft's website - you don't get anything physical, just a bunch of files on your hard disk.
they be jailed
A blog I run for the wealth
Sounds like a standard volume license distribution to me. I would guess that the software is "volume licensed" to MSDNAA. Think of it as a "Not For Resale" copy that you can use to develop software for academic purposes only, not for commercial and/or profit. Also, back in the day when Microsoft used to send you "backup copies" of CDs when requested, they'd send those with the words "NOT FOR RESALE" stamped right across it. (I'm not sure if they do that anymore... since everyone has CDR now).
When my mom used to work at the local United Methodist church as the secratary we order a copy of Office 2000 Premium from this website called UMCom.org where churches can get software for low price. Since the church didnt have a cc at the time we payed for it ourselfes and they reimburst us the $99 it cost for this MUCH more expensive software.
. Opening this package signifies that you have read and accept the terms of this agreement.
Now heres the weird part, its 4 cds that all look like they were burned from the labelless CD-Rs then printed on with one of the good labelers that prints directly to the CD. There is no offical MS license included but the CD case has some interesting info on it.
Begin CD case text
ATTENTION: IMPORTANT LICENSE INFORMATION
Use of the software contained on the enclosed CDs is subject to the terms of the TechShop License Participation Agreement. Do not install this software until you have read this agreement. To view the agreement visit https://secure.umcom.org/techshop/msstore/license
(...Installation instructions...)
(...Instructions for if installation screen doesnt appear...)
For additional assistance, e-mail:
support@umcom.org or visit the following sites:
http://umcom.org/techshop or http://support.microsoft.com
End CD case text
This copy of Office 2000 Premium is also the one that generates its own key each time you install. Like i said there were no other paperwork such as the MS sticker with the metal strip in it which is considered the license on most MS products.
Some may say that the license on the page listed on the case is the license but if that were true everybody could point to that link and say there copy is legal since there is no way to prove thats how you got your copy.
Since then my mom has quit her job at the church and as compensation for the overtime they never paid her, I still have the CDs =) but then they did end up paying her most of the overtime, but Im still keeping the CDs because of how they treated my mom, almost doubling the duties of her job and making her do things that do not fall under the 'church' sectarys duties, ie typing of personal papers.
... although we stopped coding after we got the CD's. :-D
More than mere navel gazing.
Think about it.
Spammers usually define spamming as "That which they do not do."
Here, we have a case where Microsoft is simply redefining software piracy as "That which we do not do."
Since Microsoft has also been known to spam, and has tried to weaken anti-spam laws in their favor, it comes as no surprise to me that the left hand has no idea of what the right is doing when it comes to handing out software.
Spammer logic. Amazing -- and kind of frightening -- how contagious it is.
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
I know a few people have already replied to say this, but I have done this several times myself, when I accidentally scratched a CD to the point where it was unusable (cats batted it around the room or something.)
If you call the company, or email, and promise to provide proof (as in sending the original CD back to them) they will often send you a new CD for free. I have done this with EA Games, and Microsoft. Probably a few others as well.
I had one company that refused to replace it, stating that there was no way for them to verify that i was sending back the original disc (umm, yeah, right), but for the most part, companies will let you do that either for free, charging for shipping, or a small fee for the media (a $10 media fee, as one of the other repliers put it). You usually don't even have to come up with a receipt, if you have the original media around to send back to them. However, if it's a copy protected game, and you lost it, then I wouldn't count on them sending you a new CD. If you scratched it badly and can send it back, yeah, but otherwise they'll often assume you want a free legitimate CD.
//FIXME: Bad
This debate is stupid. .NET)
The license is for making commercial software.
No license = no right to make commercial software with this product (in this case, Visual Studio
Thus, it can be used for EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES, but not MONETARY PURPOSES, unless you buy a license to go along with it.
this program seems worth around $6000
is it anywear near that proce?
is it worth the dosh?
would you use i tto code?
or maybe just vi or ultraedit?
You people get so boooooooring sometimes :(
Fuck M$ and let's write some FREE-as-in-freedom software!
Software marked as such described in the article is licensed. The license is the EULA on the installer. I have asked my boss about this in the past due to my concerns on receiving such software. Next, MS employees with a v- at the front of their email alias are contract employees. Nevertheless, they are employees. Referring to them as less than real employees is just demeaning. As someone who expects to have a v- as part of their email address in just a couple of months I don't appreciate being lumped into some group seen as morlocks to the rest of microsoft's eloi. MS employees routinely switch between being contract and full-time to better suit their needs. Don't be rude just because you don't understand how a system works.
My opinions are just that. They are not the opinions of my employer in any way shape or form. I am not an official spokesperson of my employer. caveat emptor.
iRooster, the Mac OS X a
So, what is the problem? There is nothing that demands you have a license to use something that is copyright protected. You don't need it to read books, you don't need it to listen to music and you don't need it to use software. Sure, the ones MAKING music, software and so on wants you to believe you need it, but there is nothing in copyright laws that says so.
Sure, when you buy something, it is possible to include some sort of agreement made WHEN you buy it that govern the purchase, but it is not required. That has nothing to do with copyright though but with normal (consumer)sale laws.
But seeing as he was promised the .Net Academic Edition, he wouldn't be allowed to use it for comercial purposes even with the licence.
Did common sense just leave the building here? They MADE they product, OWN the product and can- *gasp* -distribute to whoever they want to. You can do those sort of things WHEN YOU OWN THE PRODUCT. I realize MS bashing is full contact sport here, but lets all screw our heads back on, shall we?
This isn't news, it really has nothing to do with nerds and failing all of that, it sure as shit doesn't matter.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I went to the Toronto MSAA .NET event and found it to be fairly informative. I've met Sasha and as others have said he's a really nice guy. I get the impression that he doesn't work directly for Microsoft (ie. he's not an MS employee) but he's a coordinator/liason between schools and Microsoft. He's part of the MSAA team that arranges events and encourages learning of .NET tech in schools.
I received a copy of the "unlicensed software" and it's true, I don't see a license anywhere on the packaging. However I thought that they made it fairly clear at the event that use of the software was for non-commercial development only.
As an aside, one of the demos of someone programming a .NET application under Windows and then uploading it to a Linux box and compiling and running it under the Shared Source CLI was pretty damned impressive. Well for Microsoft it was anyways...
Microsoft loves doing this kindof thing for students. In fact there are MANY colleges that sell microsoft software for 5 dollars .. Office is 10 dollars.. Reason? It just serves as another method of putting their product out in the market. Well this is just the same thing as these cd's.. they are UNLICENSED.. but only until you graduate.. then they send a license.. But its not really a big deal to them since students are getting use out of their products and they see themselves as helping the future generation of developers.
I can't believe that you guys would now try to look a gift horse in the mouth even though microsoft is being very courteous in helping people become legit for a very small price.
Stop microsoft bashing and worry about more important things, like getting laid.
- what is the definition of simultanagnosia?! I've been meaning to look it up!
I attended one of these events last semester at my school and they did the same basic thing. Everyone (600 or so) who showed up got a goodie bag with a paper pad and pen, poster, and copies of VS.net academic edition (more on this later) and Windows XP Pro.
... use."
The event was *obviously* geared to getting people excited about using Visual Studio.net and to get them to go home and try it out as soon as possible. The closest thing we heard about licensing was that we would "find copies of VS.net and Windows XP in our bags" in exchange for a "promise that they won't end up on eBay."
Our bags, however, did include a copy of a EULA for Visual Studio. The CD's are a set of 6 cd's: Visual Studio Academic Edition (AE), with plain brownish printing on the front - no hologram. The AE CD's are identical to the Visual Studio Pro product except for the extra "Student Tools" CD which has special learning projects and stuff geared more toward command line programs (since that's where beginning students usually start). The license included was a 4 page AE Eula dated December 2001 (part no. X08-69090) and an accompanying "addendum" dated February 2002 (part no. X08-74675) which spelled out that you could only install on up to 3 computers and that activation was mandatory. One clause states that "There are technological measures in this Product that are designed to prevent unlicensed or illegal use of the Product. You agree that we may use these measures." Basically, I'd say that if you can activate the thing, call that your "license" since these "technological measures" will "prevent unlicensed
The copies of Windows XP we got were the standard media fulfillment "Illegal without separate license" hologram copies that you can get if you call up Microsoft and say you lost your CD. For a small fee ($15 - $25) they'll send you a new CD set. The Windows XP CD's included no license, but as we are all aware of, include the nefarious 1-computer only activation checks.
I couldn't believe that they were giving away the software so freely until I realized that the cd and the software within is of no worth if you can't activate it. I consider the cd key on the back to be the closest thing I have to a license as it is guaranteed to be unique and MS no doubt tracks what key ranges go to what venues.
They can only limit you from doing further copying. [**]
AFAIK, there is no way they can legally prevent you from lending the disc which they gave you to another party. Copyright law does prohibit renting it out, though.
Eric
[*] If Microsoft wants new laws, they get them the same way as anyone else would, by buying Congressmen. Of course, Microsoft can afford to buy more Congressmen than most other companies.
[**] There is apparently conflicting case law on whether running software from a disc constitutes making a copy (in memory) within the meaning of copyright law.
My local ACM chapter gave away a few copies of VS.NET in a raffle in one of the first meetings of the year... I was fortunate enough to win a copy. Only two of my disks are labeled "Unlicensed Software: Illegal to use without separate liscense from Microsoft." These are the disks with Microsoft Windows Component Updates on one and Studen Tools on the other. The license that makes them legit would be the license on the VS disks themselves. Maybe the ones this guy recieved were different, though... Mine came in a shrink-wrapped bundle with a few sheets of paper - a printed copy of the EULA.
I'm a lawyer, but not yours. I wouldn't represent someone who thinks taking legal advice from Slashdot is a good idea.
please... the implication the headline of this slashdot article leaves is misleading. clearly it is not possible for microsoft to 'pirate' it's own software; if it wants to give certain copies away it can do so. this reminds me of all the spin the liberals put on the war with their misguided logic.
-1 Redundant . . . mod away.
Like any conspiracy theory, it falls apart upon a judicious application of the aforementioned principle. Microsoft, like any big company, (and yes, Microsoft is a BIG company. It's not the nimble corporate machine it leads you to believe it is, but I digress . . . ) is given to mistakes, miscommunications, crossed wires, and other bureaucratic flubs. That's what this probably is. The bean counter forgot to tell the marketroids to tell the PHBs that license keys were supposed to have been given out.
Geeze, I understand and agree with most of the anti-Microsoft sentiments expressed on /., but this is ridiculous! What good story got rejected because this tripe was published, and on the front page no less?!?
The online version did in fact come with a license (online?) but hey I'm not complaining, this is a few hundred dollars worth of free software.
Yeah, and I'll bet the first baggie of crack, from the campus dealer, is free too.
But how much does it cost to break the habit?
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
- They give you the disk, and notify you that it's illegal to use without a license.
-
They wait for you to use the 'key' on the back of the disk.
-
They send the BSA in with SWAT backup to audit you
-
They threaten to fine you waaaayyy more than the cost of the software
-
You buy a proper license or two.
< EMBED SRC="Evil_Laugh.ogg" >?????
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
"microsoft solution"
Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
And this guy tries to discourage them from doing it. WTF is he doing that?
Sindri Traustason.
I got given on the tour in the UK some cds. The cds were the final beta for visual studio .net 2k3.
It doesn't come with serial numbers for obvious reasons. Now, the license with *-this-* is on the cd.
In regard to the free copies of Wndows XP Pro and also Visual Studio .NET. These come with 'Do not lend or make illegal copies of this software' on the top. It also has a unique serial number (for the cd) on the top.
All the licensing agreements come up when you actually install the software. Since you didn't buy it, you don't need to accept the license to put the cd in your drive or open it. You had to fulfill the requirements to be given the cd.
What really pisses me off is that people like me, i.e. students who can't afford to buy operating systems have huge problems because of the likes of you lot. If I need to run a piece of software for my PC, it WILL be for Windows. So, I'll have to buy Windows just to get along. (don't even try to give me crap about WINE. You know, as I know, that Visual Studio could only run under some supercomputer for WINE.) That's a fuck load of money for Windows. Do you want to pay for my copy of Windows (if you do, email me)???
Since you don't, stop criticising Microsoft. They're trying to do something positive to help people. When you're doing something so positive, and really incredibly helpful respond to this.
You criticise Microsoft for trying to actually help.
Get a life. Stop being so small minded, and open your eyes.
To summarise:
These pieces of software do come with licenses.
You have to agree to them to install.
Intersting Thought:
Perhaps Microsoft should sue the guy for being a prat and getting his facts wrong. Or even better, remove his license for all microsoft stuff.
Sit down and shut the hell up. Nobody cares about your whining.
The first email he received would serve in most any court of law as permission to use.
She was asked a specific question about licensing, and being a representative of Microsoft gave a legally binding statement giving him permission.
His ass is covered.. he doesn't need to beat them with it until they change their mind and revoke it..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The University I goto (in Georgia) handed out Windows XP Professional and Office XP suite for free to students. No license - just cds (That say illegal without license) and a cd key.
At a MS Windows XP rollout, MS reps gave out copies of Windows XP Pro to every member in attendance. All the CD were stamped with the same information - that a license was required or they where illegal copies. There was something like 250 people in attendance. Instead of a license with the appropriate license serial key, a stickered key was placed on the CD sleve the disks where distributed in. Surprising? Not really. I hardly think that MS would take themselves to court, but it makes taking others to court for these violations nearly impossible since they themselves are distributing their products in violation of their licensing agreement. Just have to provide evidence that you attended a Microsoft sponsored event where MS products were spiffed.
Since they are the software Nazis, this guy should be posing his questions to Microsoft and the BSA. I doubt he will get a "go ahead and use it" response from the BSA. It would be interesting to see M$ getting jumped on by the BSA for ambiguous licensing methods and terms.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
That he'll not hear back from Sasha.
I thought that I should add, I also attended a MS seminar concerning .NET. I actually won a prize for attending, my prize was WINDOWS XP Pro MSDNAA.
But the best part was this "legal" software was on a CD-R with a cd key written on the CD with a marker, no box no licence. Just the CD
Add the CD Key didn't work !!
I guess they pirate there software alot!
Buisness Auditing Steps
1) Sign up attendees to conference.
- detail: capture buisness and home addresses
2) Hold event and distribute software
- detail: do not include official license for software
3) Provide list to BSA of firms and individuals known to be in posession of illegal software
- detail: list is from 1), knowledge is from 2)
- detail: wait for software activation to ping home base for extra legal weight
4) Unleash the BSA and Marshalls to force all involved to provide detailed analysis proving that all software is licensed
- detail: use information from 3) to get the needed warrants to really be annoying
5) Laugh maniacally
This really isn't a funny joke. It is a serious legal implication that should be presented to every judge that hears a Microsoft copyright infringement complaint.
--- Nothing clever here: move along now...
I work for a large international consultancy, and I had an email conversation with Microsoft's representative to us. I pointed out the licencing problems with WIndows XP, specifically the bit that prohibits using any other computer hardware to access the interface without a separate licence. I said that we had advised our customer not to install Windows XP on any of the machines that we support, because we use pcAnywhere from Windows 95 and Windows NT machines to support them. He said that there was no such clause, and when I emailed him an article about it, he said that that is not what the clause means. It's perfectly clear to any reasonable person that that is exactly what the clause does mean, though.
This is standard MSDNAA practice. At my school, we have an MSDNAA agreement. We can distribute MSDNAA software amongst our CS and Engineering students. I personally have acquired:
.NET
* Windows 2000 Pro
* Windows 2000 Advanced Server
* Windows XP
* MSDN Library
* Visual Studio 6.0 Pro
* Visual Studio
All for free. The licence is given to you on a sheet of paper when you sign it out, it essentially says that you can use if for free for non-commercial use as long as you're a student.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
That MS finds it nit-picking is humorus--except that that nit-picking is exactly what they expect companies, schools, users to do to remain legal. This is the the same laziness they are fighting tooth-n-nail to stop!
It's interesting that MS wants to play fast-n-loose with the rules while turning around and then later holding you to it--this guy's exactly right to make an issue out of it! That is exactly the problem with software licensing-it's become outright draconian! Just because it's MS giving out MS software doesn't mean they shouldn't follow the rules too! The big-wigs want to argue over details like this when it's you or I, but don't want to be bothered themselves if license tracking would cost too much!
Doesn't anyone know that if the BSA "audits" you, you can a) Plead the 5th. You have the right not to provide incriminating evidence against yourself. This works on the IRS, and the BSA isn't more powerful than THEM. b) Wait until they come up with a subpoenae. FORCE the issue. Don't let Miro$oft/BSA get the better of you!
I went to the microsoft .net lauch at depaul university, and they were handing out bags with a copy of xp and a shrinkwrapped bag with vis studio.net with the same thing "unlicensed software, illegal without a separate license from microsoft".
About a week later, they emailed everyone who went to the launch telling us not to sell the software since it would be violating the eula by doing so.
Somehow I don't really buy this stance since I haven't opened any of the shrinkwrapped containers, and they gave me the software for free, I think I can do whatever I want with it.
It's hardly legal to give someone something and then try and dictate what they do with it.
My smurf story are much better: Phoenix got my XP box to reboot.
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law
My experiences with Microsoft .NET Student Tour". The event is described online at http://www.msdnaa.net/canada/studenttour.
.NET software handed out at the end of the presentation. I don't know if mine was missing or something but I could not find a license for the software anywhere. Just wanted to check with you on that, is the license hiding somewhere? I don't really want to be installing unlicensed software...
.NET Student Coordinator
.NET without I license (as long as it is for non-commerial use) then why not other MS products? Since I don't need a license for "non-commerial" use I should also be able to make copies of this software to anyone else that is using it for non-commerial use too right? ;) Well I thought I should check with the source so I sent another reply:
.net software and not all Microsoft products?
.NET?
.NET Student Coordinator
.NET Academic version ($109.00 value)", yet here all I have is 8 CD's which say I'm doing something illegal if I use them without a license. Surely these copies of CD's do not cost $109! It was also quite evident to me that Sasha didn't understand software licensing. So I thought I'd try an
A couple weeks ago I attended an event put on by the MSDN Academic Alliance called "Microsoft
So at the end of the event they hand out the software. There is a problem however, the software doesn't seem to come with any type of license! All is included is a CD key on the back of one of the CD covers. There is also something interesting about the CD's themselves. Right on the front of each CD is says "UNLICENSED SOFTWARE - Illegal without separate license from Microsoft" (click to see CD).
About a week after the event, the event coordinator sent out a generic "Thank you for attending email" to which I replied to find out what was going on. I definitely didn't want to be doing something illegal by using the software without a license. Here is the email I sent:
From: "Lance Kenneth Shade Titchkosky"
To: v-sashak@microsoft.com
Cc: msftpra@microsoft.com
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:09:01 -0700
Hi Sasha,
I was just wondering about the VS
thanks!
lance
In a couple hours (I was surprised to get a reply so quickly) Sasha replied with the following:
From: "Sasha Krsmanovic (ManPower)"
To: "Lance Kenneth Shade Titchkosky"
Subject: RE: Thank Your For Attending
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:13:15 -0500
Hi Lance
Feel free to use the software we provided you with during our Academic Tour. The license is not hiding, nor is it missing. However, you are fine with using software for non-commercial use.
Regards,
Sasha Krsmanovic
Academic
(905) 568 - 0434 Ext.24741
v-sashak@microsoft.com
Well that just didn't seem right to me, but I thought if I can use VS
From: "Lance Kenneth Shade Titchkosky"
To: "Sasha Krsmanovic (ManPower)"
Subject: Re: Thank Your For Attending
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:22:32 -0700
Thanks for the reply. I take it this 'non-commercial use' without license applies only to the VS
Also is it then okay to loan these CDs to my friends at university that were not able to make it to the presentation but are interesting in trying
thanks!
lance
Sasha was nice enough to reply fairly quickly to my inquiry, here is what he had to say:
From: "Sasha Krsmanovic (ManPower)"
To: "Lance Kenneth Shade Titchkosky"
Subject: RE: Thank Your For Attending
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:38:12 -0500
No, lending the software is not OK.
Non commercial use applies only to the software we gave out during the conference(as well as MSDNAA Software)
Regards
Sasha Krsmanovic
Academic
(905) 568 - 0434 Ext.24741
v-sashak@microsoft.com
Well I still had the feeling something wasn't quite right here. The event said I would be receiving "Visual Studio
To keep the BSA turkeys happy, you need:
1 - License card and
2 - A receipt
If Microsoft "gives" you software for free, please remember to ask for the license and a receipt -- EVEN IF ITS FREE.
Ratboy.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Sure you really want to be putting stuff into your body that has been touched by Microsoft quality control people? :-)
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
That's nice.
But why do I give a crap?
If you've made the mistake of sending me something you'd not have me share, it's not my job to protect you. I'm free to share the information with anyone I want.
Unless you really trust someone, don't send them anything you wouldn't want to see on the front page of tomorrow's newspaper. News media have reported on "private" communications leaked by one of the participants for years. It's legal and an essential part of both democracy and capitalism. Without this right criminal secrets could be squelched forever. You would never see whistleblower reports on companies that knowingly have unsafe working conditions, or just knowingly ship crap product.
However...
Anything non-trivial you send to me is protected by copyright, and under copyright law I cannot redistribute copies. So you do have some minimal amount of protection. But's it's not much protection, and effectively worthless. Of course, I am still free to show other people the copy I legally have. I'm free to redistribute small portions (quotes) for various far use purposes (including showing that you've done something wrong or stupid). I'm free to factually describe what you sent to me.
(The other notable protection is Trade Secret law, but that really requires that everyone involved have agreed to keep the secret (typically through Non-Disclosure Agreements). If the information is passed to a single person who hasn't agreed (and no NDA's were broken in doing so), they the information ceases to be a Trade Secret and all bets are off. But it's not really relevant, I doubt the author has an NDA with Microsoft.)
If you'd like to argue otherwise, I'd appreciate seeing a some of the details of the law in question.
Erm, under which law would that be? In the 39 "One Party Recording" states, if we're having a phone conversation, I'm allowed to record it without your knowledge (Only one party involved needs to know, and I'm that one party.)
Now that I agree with. You may not need to do so, but it's darn polite to do so, especially if you want to have future conversations with this person. I've specifically done so when I reposted portions of email conversations I've had on my web site.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
First post. The number before 2 and after 0, or the other way around. Premier affiche. Primero poste. Zuerst Posten. Il primo palo. først post. primeiro poste.
Pack up your shit and get the fuck out, smartass.
I'm replying to my own post to comment on a few things that others have said in their replies.
With regards to all software being copyrighted: I did forget about public domain works. For example, some software created by or for the US Government is automatically part of the public domain. And, of course, anything old enough that the copyright has expired becomes part of the public domain. There isn't any software that old, though.
It should be noted that, as I understand it, one cannot "place" something in the public domain. Any remarks to that affect have no legal standing. Or so I'm told. Like most here, IANAL.
To those who wrote about copying vs distributing vs selling vs using vs installing and so on: You are arguing semantics. I've got better things to do with my time.
Finally, to those who dispute the legal standing of Microsoft's licensing tactics: The courts do not agree with you. Go ahead and violate the major points in Microsoft's (or some other large software company's) licenses. If it goes to court, you'll go to jail (or suffer other legal penalties). That may not be fair or just or right, but it is the way things are right now. Bitching about it on Slashdot won't change that.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
I got this email today: .NET Professional software distributed to students who attended the event.
.NET Professional software is governed by the digital license that appears in a dialog box at the start of the installation. Your acceptance of this "Click to Accept" license is the only license required for your use of the copy of the Visual Studio.NET Professional Edition received.
.NET. If you encounter any difficulties while installing the software, please contact me.
.NET
Dear Confused Philosopher:
Thank you for joining us at the Microsoft Student Tour and for all the feedback you provided us during the event. We continue to welcome feedback and questions following the tour. One of the questions received after the tour concerns the use of the Visual Studio
I have attached a letter to this email to clarify the legal use of the software. The use of the Visual Studio
Also, it has been drawn to my attention that a few students are experiencing challenges when installing the Visual Studio
Once again, thank you for joining us at the Microsoft Student Tour. We look forward to seeing you at more events like this in the future.
Best regards,
Pamela
Pamela Lauz
Program Manager, Academic
(905) 363 - 8448
pamlauz@microsoft.com
Why slashdot? Why not?