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Low-power FM Transmitters Banned in UK
Acey writes "The BBC News is reporting that the Griffin iTrip falls foul of the UK Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 (PDF). In short, the iTrip is an unlicensed FM transmitter and that's not allowed. The UK distributor, A M Micro, have pulled the iTrip. More ominously they warn that "Use of the iTrip in the UK therefore constitutes an offence and can lead to prosecution of the User". Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
Any rewards for turning people in?
sounds like they want to keep the air free of interference. Aren't there lots of pirate radio stations in England?
How exactly will they enforce this? Will it be like a second degree offence, like seat belts are in some US states?
"What we have here is a failure to communicate"
The Warden, Cool Hand Luke
For all you people (like myself) who had no idea what iTrip is/was, here's the link from googles cache.
From the page: You are looking at the coolest iPod accessory in the world. The iTrip FM transmitter for the iPod can play your music through any FM radio in your car, at a party, wherever the mood strikes you - and you have a radio.
How can someone with nothing but a CD player/radio in their car, listen to their iPod on their car stereo, except by using the iTrip?
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
Walkie-talkies should be banned as their signals can be picked up by an FM receiver (at least my old action man ones could, although the range was about 3 metres)
Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands.
/me prises your iTrip from your cold dead hands.
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
What about the Neuros' built-in low-power FM transmitting capability? Are those illegal to use in the UK also? It all seems a bit excessive to me, considering the tiny range.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
This could/can be the begining of eclectic microstations. You can tune into a 24/7 iTrip at work/your building/bus stop etc., instead of listening to one of big conglomerate boring stations.
My other sig is an ambulance!
Some early/mid 90's cars with cd players added in the trunk broadcast on like channel 88. something, which is what the user tunes to, to listen to cds.
(This is before 6 cd changers in-dash existed)
This is the same thing. Would these be illegal in the UK too?
There's **SO** many places where you can BUY FM bugs in the UK despite the fact that to USE them is illegal, and the position on radio scanners and traffic speed detectors is pretty much the same -- yet you don't read about the suppliers being prosecuted day in day out, so I guess AM Micro is being a tad over-cautious.
AT&ROFLMAO
Seems excessive, but if you lived in an apartment complex, you could have some serious fun with one of these things broadcasting to the station your neighbor happens to be listening to. :)
...could have anything to do with this? They are rapidly setting themselves up as 'audio-fascists', and are probably afraid that such devices would be hacked (e.g. provided with a more powerful amplifier and a bigger antenna) and thus become an unlicensed (and hence NON-MONEY-MAKING) FM station...
It seems like the RIAA want to enforce a situation where ONLY "approved", tribute-paying stations have ANY sort of FM transmitter equipment.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
This law was written in 1949! Probably to stop people from setting up unlicensed radio stations (ie. commercial FM). These devices didn't exist!
On the one side, I can understand the Governments position:
Thou Shalt Not have Unlicensed Radio Transmitters.
This is important, because if just anybody set up shop, soon the radio waves would be a mess of people just putting stuff out, and nobody could hear the station they wanted too - just the one with the biggest pen- ah, broadcast antennae.
On the other hand, I think the range of this thing is - what - 10 to 30 feet? Watch out, Britian! Those pirate radios will be able to be heard from the other room! Anarchy and chaos as Julie tries to dance to Nsync while Dad's got his iPod broadcasting the Spice Girls in the other room! Mum - you'd best be keeping that "Black Mages" heavy metal to yourself!
This seems more like an issue of someone in beurocracy[SIC] getting a bug up their ass and not using common sense more than anything else.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
So, like, is a Mr. Microphone illegal in the U.K.? And did I just date myself by mentioning Mr. Microphone?
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
Who is that? Homer McElroy?
-Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands.
No, it would just take a uniformed constable. Let's not overestimate ourselves here.
I've tried a few such devices for hooking my MP3 player to my car, and they all sucked. Interference, bad tuning, low power etc.
Just suck it up and either get a head unit with AUX inputs (usually a headphone jack on the front) or get the neat doodad that allows you to use the inputs for the trunk-mounted CD changer that you don't use any more since you bought your iPod. Google PIE and AUX for distributors of those boxes.
License fees are a means of ensuring quality, ad-free television. I'd claw my eyes out if I lived in the US and had to watch your crap channels. Better democratic control than just being an outlet for corporations.
Works the same in sweden, and it works good too.
Imagine, watching good TV without brainwashing commercials every ten minutes.
Warning: This sig contains a small bug. ==> *
GriffinTech should be paying for this spot because I never heard of this thing and I just plopped down my credit card! $35 + Shipping. It is the coolest thing around. I can't wait to use this....no more wires plugging into a tape deck!
Ignored Since 1973
And how do they use their X10 stuff?
... to overthrow the BBC Monopoly on broadcasting in Britain. This has to be a throwback to the kind of thinking that led to licenses to own radios and televisions, and the Gestapo-like radio detector vans. As bad as the FCC has been, on occasion, it has never been as draconian as the British governments stranglehold on the airwaves.
Many years ago I remember reading a British electronics hobbyist magazine which had an article on how to build a metal detector. There was a warning that before using it you needed to go to a government office and get a pipe finders license.
This is no exaggeration. I had no TV for 6 years and those gits hounded me relentlessly. They kept sending me threatening letters warning of a possible 1000 fine for not having a TV license even though I didn't have a TV. They made me sign a form declaring that I had no TV set, which I did, and then they sent me another one, and another one, and I phoned them and told them and then they sent and inspector to my house!
When I moved house, they started sending the letters again, which I signed and returned. A week or two later a poster went up on the billboard across the road saying "3 addresses at Himalayan Way do not have Television Licenses. We know who they are."
I was so tempted to go out with a can of paint and write "At least one of them has no TV set" but I didn't. A year later I bought a TV and a damned license. Now I spend too much time as a TV zombie and not enough time writing code.
Television is a powerful opiate and population control machanism. I admire people who can control it. I'm succumbing again.
Stick Men
It seems like the legislature, the broadcasters, and the consumers, ought to be able to work out an exception provision to the existing laws.
Specifically, they ought to allow unlicensed transmitters below a certain output power (anyone know what the iTrip's broadcast power is?).
I mean, the spectrum licensees have a vested and understable interest in keeping their airwaves free of interference, but I don't think low-power transmissions like these had been envisioned when the law was codefied (receivers were a wee bit less sensitive and precise in 1949, methinks).
Xentax
You shouldn't verb words.
You'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands.
Whatever you say, Charlie
Not very surprising, the WTA covers all FM and AM transmitters, the only exceptions being those licensed for public bands (such as PMR446, 2.4GHz for low-range CCTV monitors and wifi, 49MHz baby monitors and any 27MHz gear rated at below 50mW (ie radio control transmitters)). Everything else requires a license. HAM Radio requires an annual license fee, as does C27/81-CB28/94 (CB Radio on 27MHz (is this still covered under licensing? Last I heard they were abolishing 27/81 in favor of the newer banding. Answers on a postcard...) and 28MHz Euro bands); you can even be charged under the WTA for building and using a crystal AM transmitter (lots of hobby electronic kits have schematics and parts for building these, and they have a range of only twenty FEET!)
I mean, can't they ratify laws to allow low power FM devices access? The transmission radius of the device is a meer 10 to 30 feet. Indeed, it runs off an extremely low power input and wouldn't have the power to transmit very far anyway. I'd be surprise if it *COULD* interfere with other cars' radios.
I think it'd be simpler and more economically beneficial to ratify the law to allow LPFM devices on the market. They're obviously allowed in the USA. Indeed, take a look at the 300-in-1 electronics kits from Radio Shack, which allow one to build one's own LPFM transmitter.
I just checked the specs - there's not going to be any frequency drift (it has a PLL) and complies to FCC specifications. Granted these are US specifications...
I simply don't see the point in denying a market for a neat (and harmless) transmitter.
I'm not even sure that it's possible to boost the power on these devices to expand the transmission radius -- this would likely cause a need for circuit redesign. Those are my thoughts, anyway. IANAEE.
www.sitetronics.com/wordpress
According to reports, two other countries - Austria and Iceland - have also stopped sales of the iTrip because of problems with radio frequencies.
I remember building FM/AM transmitters as teen, cool to be my own DJ...America still home of the free!!!
Wise men speak because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something!!!!
" License fees are a means of ensuring quality, ad-free television"
Great way to put a spin on it. If in America, CBS managed to force everyone to pay CBS fees, they'd make the same claim.
" Better democratic control than just being an outlet for corporations."
Translation of socialist double-speak: "Better that the government decides than the viewers decide"
Geeze, just think about it. I don't know the laws in the surrounding (ok, nearby) nations, but think of the black market for these now. An easy 500% price increase to anyone selling one. Remember when blue jeans were going for $500 or so in the USSR? So will this create a nasty black market for a simple, innocent device or will it force the legislators to review the law?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
Why is this marked as informative? It shows gross ignorance. The BBC is independent of the government via mandate. In fact, the BBC seems to institutionally take the stance when reporting the news that anything from the government must wrong, irrespective of whether they're left, right or centre. The BBC isn't owned, or controlled or funded by the government. The only possible hold the government has is over the renewing of the BBC's license (is the right term?), which is generally valid for longer than the maximum length of time the current government can sit before they have to call a general election.
How will I pick up the chicks? How will I karoake? How will I LIVE?!?!?!
In short; more paranoia from the music regulatory authorities. A couple of milliwatts of power - an iTrip probably has less range than the average infra-red remote control.
I'm patiently waiting for them to begin outlawing that part of the electromagnetic spectrum ... :-/
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
The FM range 88 - 108 MHz has been used for wireless microphones for ages - how are these Griffin Itrips any different?
Video Game cheats, hints a
Isn't the iTrip just like any of the dozens of other low power FM transmitters on the market today? I recall using one years ago with my JVC DiscMan, and I know they were around even back to the handheld cassette player days, for playing those on your car stereo. I've personally got an iRock for my pod for road trips.
The USA has a limit (what is it, 10mW?) that anything running under that transmit strength doesn't have to be licensed because it's too weak to cause interferance. My iRock has a range of about 15 feet from my truck, on an empty station. I sometimes have to switch its channel though because even sitting on my dash, 2 feet from my antenna, it can still be overpowered by local radio stations along my route. I don't see how the UK's equivelant of the FCC seriously considers this any kind of hazard.
I understand different countries will have different regulations etc., but is this a case of the UK completely banning any such devices, or is it just a case of Apple neglecting to get a license for the iTrip in the UK, and the UK deciding to make an example of 'zero tolerance' of their airwave laws?
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Certain models of the XM Radio use a small FM transmitter to send the audio to the car's stereo system. Are XM radio's illegal in the UK?
Elijah Chancey www.elijahsadventure.com nomadic IT consultant, bicycling across america "all that you touch / and all
Why the fuss over low power FM? Because it allows anyone to become a broadcaster or content creator. By raising the specter of 'interference', broadcasters and others can FUD the legislatures into banning enabling technologies like this.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
" Why is this marked as informative? It shows gross ignorance. The BBC is independent of the government via mandate."
Yet, the government is the one that pays its $$$$, and controls the mandates too.
" The BBC isn't owned, or controlled or funded by the government."
Yes it is. If it weren't, the government would not be forcing a single sole to pay license fees to it.
At last count, there were already ~80 pirate radio stations in the Greater London area alone. The authorities are obviously not having a lot of luck shutting down illegal transmitters. Just order one from the States and stop worrying about it, for heaven's sakes!
"Use of the iTrip in the UK therefore constitutes an offence and can lead to prosecution of the User". Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
This view seems to becoming more prevalent. An illegal action or device is banned or otherwise action taken against, and people just ignore it because it doesnt suit them. This device is illegal, and it hasnt even just been made illegal, its been illegal for a good number of decades, so under what premise do you think you should be allowed to continue using it? I bet you will be crying foul if you get caught!
Yes this device is low powered, but that doesnt matter. Under the aformentioned act, it is illegal, and if you want to use one, then please speak to your local MP! Do not start ignoring laws that inconvienince you, as this is where anarchy starts to creep in.
I can hear the cries for compensation for these now useless devices already, either from the UK government or the company that sold them. I dont think you should get a refund or compensation from either source, as they are covered under an already existing law, and you should have checked the legality of these items before you purchased.
Your best course of action now, to recover your costs? Ebay the suckers i think.
Indeed. I live in the US, I don't own a TV (CNN and Faux News? No thanks). I get much of my news from the BBC's website. Government-controlled? Is that why Blair and Alistair Campbell and friends are so upset with them lately?
I'd claw my eyes out if I lived in the US and had to watch your crap channels.
Yeah.. heaven forbid you had something to watch besides guys dressed in drag. The commercials do suck, but not nearly as bad as UK programming.
The UK has *not* just passed a new law banning the iTrip specifically or deliberately, as half the posters on slashdot seem to believe.
The distributors of the iTrip, having taken legal advice, have decided that use of the iTrip probably constitutes a breach of an old law about FM broadcasting and have therefore chosen not to distribute it here.
Nothing has actually changed and British police are not about to start hunting down people with suspicious bulges on the top of their iPods.
erroneous: look me up in a dictionary
Television is a powerful opiate and population control machanism. I admire people who can control it. I'm succumbing again.
Dude, it's time to kill your TV!
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
It's really cool and broadcasts a LOT farther than it says in the manual - it supposed to only broadcast within 10 feet but when we went camping, it was transmitting w/o any problems up to 60 feet. We had two cars' stereos tuned to the same station and playing music ranging from old-school rap to Skinny Puppy and other weird stuff. People who were walking by were very confused.
Has anyone tried this in heavy, slow traffic?
All countries regulate use of the wireless spectrum. It's just that in Britain the exemptions for low-power devices don't happen to cover this kind of device, unlike the USA apparently. Nothing to do with the music industry at all.
This has nothing to DO with the FCC. We're talking about the UK here.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
And we all know the FCC has a lot of power over in the UK... ;)
I dunno who it is
but it prolly is fhqwhgads.
I don't own one, but my brother does; IIRC, the iTrip can broadcast on one of four FM frequencies: 89.1, 89.3, 89.5, or 89.7. This is because frequencies that low are usually only taken by local college/community stations, and most commercial stations use a frequency from 90.1 on up.
your govt is on crack.
Television is a powerful opiate and population control machanism. I admire people who can control it. I'm succumbing again.
I sit here, replying.. after refreshing Slashdot for the last 20 minutes waiting for new stories to appear.. wondering what is this "Television" you speak of. Ahh, anything to drown out the cruel reality. Let me be, lord.. let me be.
A conversation a friend of mine who lived in W1 (Very central London) recounted having:
"Sir, do you have a TV license?"
"Nope."
"Do you have a TV?"
"Nope."
"We detected a TV from our van, inside your property."
"No you didn't. Must be a mistake."
"Sir, I can hear the EastEnder's theme coming from inside your appartment."
"You must be imagining it."
"Sir, if we need to, we can get a warrant to enter the premises and be back within the hour."
"No you can't."
"Yes we can Sir, the courts look very favorably upon our requests."
"They look even less favorably upon giving search warrants to enter property belonging to the Queen."
"Oh. Well... You really should get a license."
The joys of the royal family owning half the best properties in the city.
Knowing the RIAA, they will most likely follow suit... We wouldn't want anyone thinking they have become 'softies' would we? Honestly, I don't see the problem here, since it seems that this transmitter/jammer is of low power consumption, it is reasonable to assume that it's transmission properties could not spread to far from the source of the Jammer itself... Not to say the RIAA won't want in on this as well. After all, they have the image of 'Big Brother' to uphold...
Business \Busi"ness\, n.;
A scam in which all people involved perceive as beneficial...
...that all Americans are anarchists.
It must be just an illusion..?
If I pinch myself I'll wake up and realise they are all modest, sensible and responsible worls citizens...
Ethics is what you say you do. Morals is what you actually do.
Why not just use a tape adaptor? I had one that came with my DiscMan, and I use it with my iPod in the car all the time. Just plug it in the iPod's headphone jack.
Seriously, I don't see what the fuss over these mini FM transmitters is all about. They're bulky and require their own batteries. For car use, I'd much rather use a tape adaptor.
"Dude, it's time to kill your TV!"
After you kill your TV, you can burn all your books, toss your radio in the river, and shred your magazines.
The joys of censorship. Can't have those bad ideas enter, ever!
I think Dr David Kelly might have disagreed that the BBC is controlled by the Government.
Yes I realize you're not a guy, so don't take the 'Man' bit personally. ^_-
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
"In the US, the only thing that will ever see network airtime is Lowest Common Denominator crap,"
translation = what people want to see.
"In the UK, voters elect MPs who *can* influence what the BBC considers worthwhile programming."
Alright, lets have government officials micro-manage TV content!
I'd rather control CBS in the more direct way: turn the channel when I don't like it, watch it when I do. The advertising system results in a much more direct sort of accountability that means that the content much more directly represents what people want to see.
That sucks!
Would you have to pay if you got an AIW card?
Really? Where is all that TV-licensing money going, then?
In the UK if you operate a TV set or other device capable of recieving and decoding TV signals you have to have a TV licence to pay for the running of the BBC, including radio. Note, you don't need a TV license if you only have a radio, even though the BBC has several radio stations, one of which is excellent and far better than any TV station I've ever seen.
Stick Men
It is...a licence...to own....an electronic...device....capable...of recieving...television....broadcasts.
Why...do you...talk like...this? Were...you dropped...on your...head as...a child?
It's the same in Germany. I call this TV/radio license thing THEFT.
And now it's the best part, let's say you have a TV, you pay the licence. HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED for example "Seinfeld" in GERMAN ?!?!
I am about to get one of these, and the fact thats its illegal wont make any difference (see: hash). Dispite thinking its a little out of whack, I can see the reasoning. If I lived next door to someone who had one of these, and they played spice girls on repeat, and coincidently on my fave band, I think it would piss me of somewhat. Paul.
Glad i ordered my iTrip yesterday... Ironically enough... www.ipodlounge.com had an article yesterday
The wireless telegraphy act makes sense. We're only a small country and a typical radio FM transmitter can cover a fair proportion (about 1/10-1/20) of the population. Just my twiddling a screw in most FM transmitters, you can get it to broadcast on any frequency, and (for instance) stick it in your local neighbourhood and broadcast something other than your local radio station on a specific frequency. Video senders (boxes that transmit video signals over UHF and FM bandwidths so a TV upstairs can pick it up) were banned for a while for similar reasons. They found a way to make them legal and everything was fine :-)
The UK government announces a total ban on these additional products that emit energy in regulated broadcast frequencies including: electric razors, motorized childs' toys, internal combustion engines that use spark plugs, bug zappers, light dimmers, flourescent light fixtures, arc welders, and any toy rubber balloon that is marketed primarily for rubbing against wool or hair. Additional banned items may be announced in the future as more products are evaluated.
There are plenty of licensed frequencies for things like that - 458MHz for starters (if my memory serves) - just they're not in the FM band. UK X10 RF controllers (eg, from www.letsautomate.co.uk) use 458MHz.
Come to think of it, I don't think garage door openers in the states are in the FM band either.
The US is more the exception than the rule; many countries ban transmission in the FM band - it's just the US has a get-out for very low power transmitters.
Since the laws require a licence for any body to run a radio station,UK and more commonly London have a lot of pirate radio stations mainly in the FM band.
. .almost everything on earth.In fact some of the more popular pirate stations have made it mainstream.
Take your radio and scan and you can listen to latin,salsa,spanish,french,grunge,garage,hip-hop.
So this is no big deal except that you cant buy this little gizmo anymore in the high street.
Wanted : A Signature.
The CBC in Canada is owned by the government, and although there are still commercial stations, the CBC often times has much higher quality news and entertainment programming because they don't have to worry as much about making shitty television to just get ratings and advertising, so they can take more risks.
Besides that, Talking to Americans just plain kicks ass.
"Congratulations Canada for getting FM Radio" - Random AmericanCommon mistake. In the UK if you operate a TV set or other device which recieves and decodes TV signals Orignating from the UK you have to have a TV licence.
The money raised from the TV License goes to several areas, including the running of BBC TV and Radio, subsidising public service broadcasts on other channels (Channel 4), and running TVL.
The government doesn't collect the money, the BBC is responsible for that. Something to do with The Broadcasting Act 1990 (from one the web sites below.)
w w.tv-l.co.uk/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/licencefee/
http://w
http://www.bbc.co.uk/annualreport/
Sheesh, they have programs on US television? Whenever I've been in a hotel I channel-surfed for ages but could only find advertisements.
Dating yourself is a tradition among slashdot readers, and...oh, you meant...I thought that you were talking about...never mind
I live here in the UK (London) and I have never heard so many pirate stations. They are the only good radio stations here. As if this will matter.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
How does this affect CD changers that use the same trick - namely transmitting a low power FM signal that your car stereo can pick up?
Its going to the BBC, but it isn't collected by the Government. Why is this so difficult for you retards to understand? The BBC has its own depeartment which collects the TV licence for the rest of the BBC to spend. The BBC is not a Government department, there is no "Minister for the BBC" and the Government does not and can not appoint the controller of the BBC.
So, the government does not collect money, but an agency of the government (BBC does)?
That is like saying "THe United States federal government does not collect money. The IRS does this instead"
No, nobody is going to bother to enforce the law. It it doesn't cause a problem who cares? It is a complete non-story.
Like the ability of Freemen of London to heard sheep (or not) over London Bridge lots of laws lie around long after the environment they related to has changed out of all recognition.
I think the range of this thing is - what - 10 to 30 feet?
Excuse my ignorance - information please. Would the iTrip be broadcasting on frequencies that might be used by emergency services (fire, ambulance, police..)? This is usually one of the 'safety' reasons for being unhappy about illegal broadcasting that UK gov. gives when having a go at pirate radio stations.
What is the distance these things can broadcast to? In the UK, 30 feet can quite easily mean from your room right into the middle of the town high street (lots of UK towns still follow mediaeval street plans). So I guess if they *do* broadcast on channels the govt. wants to use, and they *do* broadcast 30 feet, the govt *will* be upset. Don't want dead spots down the street where old Bill can't pick up base station...
...not something that will ever catch on in the US.
The part of the US radio regulations which make these devices is Part 15, which specifically addresses low-powered unlicensed devices on a variety of bands. It spells out maximum power outputs and antenna lengths for these devices on AM, FM, the 49 MHz kiddie walkie-talkie band, and so on. Obviously Britain has no such analogous regulation, which is a shame because Part 15 devices seduced many a kid into exploring the magic of electronics.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
FM's are loads of fun. When i was in highschool, me and some classmates went to the cafeteria with our FM-transmitter that we had built on school-hours. The Cafeteria always had the FM-Radio on.
:)
We had lots of fun
Heh, I was just trying to remember which episode that was ...
Radio Bart
YS
"Arrr! The laws of science be a harsh mistress." -- Bender
stop ... makingfunof ... William. Shatner.
... inspiration. to ... us ... all.
Heisan
In the US, Part 15 of the FCC regulations governs unlicensed radio transmitters, and basically says two things: first, there are specific bands where you can operate unlicensed with specified power levels (like the 902-928 and 2.4GHz bands), and second, you can transmit anywhere else, including the broadcast bands, with much lower power levels (not specified in actual transmitter power, but in microvolts/meter of received signal strength at a specified difference).
Thus, all these very low power transmitters that talk in the broadcast bands are legal here.
Many other countries don't have nearly so liberal a policy about unlicensed transmitters -- that's why WiFi isn't technically legal in some places (like the Caribbean island that was the topic of an article a few weeks ago) and gadgets like this aren't allowed in the UK.
Although we like to bitch about "big gummint" in the US, at least in the communications arena US policies are far more open than in other parts of the world.
Another (off topic) example: radio scanner enthusiasts here like to complain because it's illegal to listen to cellular phone transmissions. But we can listen to damn near anything else, including police radio, while in many countries listening to any non-broadcast (or non-ham) radio service is strictly forbidden.
This is RADIO CLASH on pirate satalite Orbiting your living room cashing in the bill of rights
They made me sign a form
They can't make you sign it! Just ignore the forms - they usually send about four - then ignore the postcards saying they've called. Eventually you come home late in the evening to find one very hacked-off jobsworth on your doorstep. Tell him you don't have a TV, and close your door. Hours of fun for all the family. I used to do this about once a year, but I think they cottoned on to how much it was costing them.
Wow.
What if (like me) you only watch DVDs on your TV? I'm not using the signal, would I still pay a licence?
Here in the US, I'm hounded by the cable company, but it's not like they can fine me.
"Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
.
iTrip Owners can form a lobbying group
called the iTrip Rights Organization!
Hmm, well maybe the UK wouldn't be too
responsive to a group named the iRA . .
Section 1 of the WT Act 1949 forbids the installation or use of wireless telegraphy equipment (radio) in the UK mainland including Northern Ireland and territorial waters, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, unless:
- an appropriate licence has been obtained from the Secretary of State,
- there are in force Regulations exempting it from licensing.
Short range radio devicesMore and more convenience devices now utilise radio in their operation. Car alarms, wireless door chimes and garage door openers are common examples. Unfortunately not all of these are manufactured in accordance with the relevant technical requirements. The use of non-compliant equipment, is an offence and can lead to interference to authorised users of radio.
It is an offence contrary to the RTTE Regulations to place on the market non-compliant apparatus.
The whole point is spectrum is regulated in the UK and unless the equipment is licensed, then its illegal to use it.
If this thing worked at an exempt frequency, it would be ok, but because it uses the FM Broadcast bands, its not approved for use.
I would also presume the importer wont sell them simply because they could be prosecuted and would have zero defence.
Maybe the concept of a web browser is a little tough for you to grasp, because lord knows we recognise a class A reatard when we see one, but I figure with enough prompting you'll figure it out. Maybe you could make a start by copying & pasting the links the grandparent poster kindly provided into your web browser and pressing enter. Those black marks you see on the monitor are words. Try reading them; ask a grownup to help with the big words. If you have any questions, ask them and they'll be happy to help.
Once you've done that, come back here and carry on reading.
Done that? You had better go potty first, we don't want any accidents. O.K, done?
The BBC is not a government department. There is no Minister for the BBC. There is no office in Whitehall with a sign on the door that says "Governer of the BBC". Tony Blair does not pop in once a week to ensure everything is O.K. The BBC collects it own licence fee, using its own licence fee department. The government has provided the legal means for the licence department of the BBC to enforce the licence laws. This is no different than the government contracting out highway maintainance to a private company. The private company has the legal right to close the highway, divert traffic and lay concrete.
The BBC is an autonomous entity, known as a Corporation (Ask the grownup). It collects & spends its own money and has full editorial control over its output (Next time you see Tony Blair, ask him about Dr. Kelly or "sexed up" evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction).
Now get back to FOX News you litle Randian monkey.
I just visited the Swedish Mac storeMacoteket. They had the iTrip listed on their front-page. After describing how wonderful the iTrip is they wrote this: OBS! Denna produkt far ej anvandas i Sverige da det kan innebara storningar pa andra FM sandningar! (Quick Translation: NOTE! This product cannot be used in Sweden since it can create interference with other FM broadcasts!) However, you can still buy it if you wished (I have no money for an iPod, so there is little sense for me to get one).
In response to "you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
Your Proposal is Acceptable.
Now, where's a giant space cockroach when you need it.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
You yanks just don't get it
The BBC is separate from government by issue of it's Royal Charter.
If you think they're government lapdogs, speak to Alistair Campbell.
--
This sig is inoffensive.
... that the British Nazis are harassing people into getting a TV?
;->
George Bush is going to have to pick up on that one. It's a ton cheaper than the mind control satellites, now that we don't have a space shuttle to service the uploads (remember the bandwidth of a space-shuttle full of backup tapes...)
Okay, and as per a previous "funny" response to one of my posts, just so you know whether to laugh with me or at me...
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
It also has nothing to do with the RIAA. The spectrum is much more closely regulated in the UK than it is here. That's all there is to it.
I guess Britney and all the other pop stars are screwed now that they can't use their wireless microphones in the UK!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Ok, so a Ronco "Mr. Microphone", or an iMrMicrophone would be illegal... should Karaoke in general be outlawed ? I wouldn't want that one put to a vote !
And what about those McDonalds drive-thrus, I think they us FM band ? So do garage door openers and baby monitors !
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
You need a TV licence to watch or record TV broadcasts which originate within the UK or EU. You do not need a licence to watch movies on dvd or cassette. You do not need a licence for a tv used as a cctv monitor. You do not need a licence to simply own a tv set. It has to be capable of receiving broadcasts which fall within the ambit of the law. Furthermore, they have to prove you were actually watching.
They are responsible! And they assassinated Kennedy! They started the Great Fire of London in 1666! They were all members of the Inquisition! They spread the bubonic plague throughout Europe! They opened the gates of Troy to the Greeks! They're responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs! They created virii! It's all them, I tell you!
Yes as it is a device capable of receiving television broadcasts.
One licence covers a whole household.
I've tried to use these FM transmitters before, and I find them completly worthless. Sure you can find an empty radio station and broadcast your pirate music there, but if you're traveling around, I find that I need to find a new "blank" station every 1/2 hour or so.
Pick the strongest radio station in your city. If the transmitter can't overpower that station while you're driving around, then I don't see the point. Especially if you drive long distances, and the radio stations keep changing.
Especially now in summer, when 80% of the content on commercial channels are reruns everyone has seen 5 times already. Thank god for public service. You'd have to pry SVT from my cold dead hands
The stars that shine and the stars that shrink
in the face of stagnation the water runs before your eyes
The bulk of the Wireless Telegraphy Act seems to be aimed at preventing the interference of communique to & from commercial and transport vessels.
That's fine and dandy, but the iTrip does not transmit on frequencies outside of the F.M. spectrum.
If telegraphy is the use or operation of a telegraph apparatus or system for communication, then how is transmitting a low-level FM signal viewed as an interferance? Following this logic wouldn't high-level FM signals be violation of the same act?
You need a license to own a device capable of receiving television signals, whether broadcast via cable, satellite, FTA, or internet. This includes VCRs, teletext/CC decoders, TV capture cards, etc
Unless you are watching a DVD on a dumb monitor, you have to pay.
If the RIAA was dark-hearted enough to go after broke college radio stations and really small internet radio stations, they'll flip about this.
Couldn't happen to nicer folks.
Go, Springboard, Go!
Godwin's law. Now shut up.
In Briatin you have to pay for a license for anything which lets you watch a TV signal.
As to whether that sucks...IMO what really sucks is having TV shows, movies, even sports games interrupted every 10 minutes for a 5 minutes commercial break. In return for a 190 annual fee, Brits get 2 free-to-air TV stations and 5 national radio stations with NO COMMERCIAL BREAKS. And we're not talking marginalised, underfunded US style public broadcasting - they're the most popular stations in the UK, with rights to most major sporting events, movies, music etc. So you can sit down and watch a 3 hour movie (with stereo sound) right the way through, just like in the cinema. Or a 5 set Wimbledon final, without missing any shots. Not to mention all those original BBC geek classics like Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Blackadder, Red Dwarf, Hitchikers Guide (originally a BBC radio show), Dr Who...Oh, and the BBC also has several (free) digital radio and TV channels as well.
Another bonus is that because of the competition with the ad-free BBC, commercial broadcasters in Britain restrict themselves to one commercial break every 15 minutes, so even on the 3 free-to-air commercial stations you can follow the plot of most shows without being constantly interrupted by life insurance salesman. Plus they have to compete with the BBC on breadth and quality, meaning that they can't get away with the endless repeats of Frasier and Seinfeld that seem to define primetime on most major US networks.
Now what I don't understand is this: the BBC can put out about 6 TV channels (including the digital ones) and dozens of radio stations (including local radio) for a charge of only 190 per year per household -- without needing any advertising income. This is far less than the cost of most cable or satellite TV subscriptions - and yet cable stations usually have as many commercials as free-to-air stations, and the programs rarely better BBC quality. What do they do with their money?
I guess it just goes to prove that with the right management and funding, publically owned services can outperform the private sector. Although actually I don't have a TV anymore...a DVD player hooked up to a computer monitor supplies the movies without me needing a TV license, radio and the net gives me the rest.
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
In sweden, it would sound like this:
"Hello, we've noticed you don't pay a television license. Do you have a TV?"
"No"
"We detected a TV from our van, inside your property."
"No you didn't. Must be a mistake."
"Sir, I can hear [insert name of crappy US sitcom here] theme coming from inside your appartment."
"You must be imagining it."
"Sir, if we need to, we can get a warrant to enter the premises and be back within the hour."
"No you can't."
"Damn you right. We can't. But if you don't pay your license we'll taunt you again!"
The television license inspectors do not have the right to enter your house unless you admit them. And they would not get a warrant even if they tried. Only crimes above a certain severity can give them a warrant to enter your house.
I am not a laywer, however it is my understanding that since you are broadcasting the music on the FM frequencies you would legally be required to pay royalties for most of the music on your player.
Oh my god, one example of a tape deck and CD player combo! Did you notice the guy said "few", you stupid piece of shit?
I'm glad you like your brand new car so much that you want to wank all over it.
Thank you for wasting our time and for being a waste of matter.
Unless I'm going crazy, there are low power radio transmissions entering the Earths atmosphere 24/7. Are they going to make these illegal too? When will it end? When there is no longer anything to make illegal? Good god people. Electromagnetic radiation is something that has exisited in nature long before some "wise guy" invented it. Fruck, how long until the combination of Oxygen and Hydrogen making up breathable atmosphere is patented? Wasn't there a movie where air had to payed for? Next time there is a high solar activity, I'm suing the Sun.
[Loser] No your honor, I didn't realize that I was breaking the law...
[Honor] Order... Order... I will not let this illegal behavior continue in this court... Contempt... Contempt... By talking you are continuing to contempt this court... if you continue, you will pay dearly... now how do you plead?
[Loser] Uhh, I guess I will...
[Honor] Order... Order... there it is again. Plaintiff, constrain this defendent. Now, one last time Loser, how do you plead...
...beat me to it.. that word 'capable' is important. L3K
AT&ROFLMAO
indeed, though the BBC world service is funded by the Foreign Office.
but it is a separate thingy, though still answerable to the governors (I think?)
And Sweden.
:).
Sweden didn't change the paragraph when issuing the Law for Electronic Communications, which went into effect just a week ago! They could easily have allowed low-power transmitters in an exception to the general ban.
Incidently, the Law for Electronic Communications was featured on slashdot a while ago, because it requires site owners to inform their visitors of any use of cookies
The whole of the world can benefit from the BBC free of charge and advert free (not least the excellent BBC web site; linked from this very /. story) and yet, for some reason, they feel the need to bash the system that allows them to do that. I can understand UKers complaining but then again, the UKers who do complain seem to think the licence fee funds BBC1, BBC2 and nothing else.
Personally, I think the licence fee is outstanding value.
Well you didn't seem to think it worth while.
a 190 annual fee does not seem to be to bad overall it is about the same as basic cable what I wonder is how good is it when you live in the middle of no where england. How many stations do you get then. Or is no where in England that middle of no where?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
They sent an inspector to me too, but of course I was at work. So I wrote back saying they were welcome to inspect our place, but would they mind visiting after 6pm or on weekends since... surprise surprise, they never called back. I guess they're not _that_ keen...
At the time though I felt a twinge of sympathy for Saddam Hussein. The British government kept telling me that it knew I had banned equipment (an unlicensed TV set). When I denied this they told me they knew I was lying and were going to send in inspectors. And when I offered to cooperate with the inspectors (though on my terms - I'll be damned if I'll be subject to unannounced inspections of my home at any time of the day or night - though Saddam even agreed to that), they pulled them out.
Luckily for me the analogy stops there. Otherwise my flat would be occupied by government agents triumphantly brandishing my laptop as proof that I had a mobile TV-development laboratory that could be turned into a fully functioning device within 45 minutes by the addition of a simple TV tuner card, which they had documentary evidence that I was trying to purchase from Niger...
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
Whilst there is Middle-England, there are few places in England where you can't get decent TV coverage.
Scotland's a different story though...
--
This sig is inoffensive.
not so.
there have been cases where owners have successfully argued they watch no TV broadcasts even though they have the equipment.
if it isn't tuned into to TV stations transmitted in the UK, then it is not deemed 'capable' of receiving them and is not covered.
I wonder if, with the newer sets that tune themselves into everything the minute you switch them on, it would be possible to just claim ignorance. it would be hard.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
The reason I don't have a TV is not because I think British TV is no good - more the opposite. I found I was addicted to TV and getting rid of my set was the only way I could cure myself. Now I'm addict to
On your second point, I'd say that most of England is "nowhere" but I'm from London
Besides, this is a stupid device. Using the FM broadcast band for short-range transmission is obsolete technology. In the 1950s, it might have been tolerable. Today, there are too many RF devices around. A product like this should be transmitting in an ISM band using spread-spectrum, like Bluetooth or WiFi. That's legal in the UK. More modern systems handle interference much better.
In the early days of computing, before the FCC cracked down on unwanted emissions from computers, there were major electronic incompatibility problems. If you brought a Milton Bradley Big Trak within a few feet of a TRS-80, both would crash. The FCC clamped down hard on junk RF from computers, which was a big help in making computers a mass-market product.
The mini transmittors of which iTrip is an example, has NEVER been allowed or legal in UK or in the maority of European Union.
In practise you probably can bring an iTrip woth you there, or sell it to someone living in Europe, and he/she/you are not likely to get to trouble with it. But I can't recall the iTrip-type electronics EVER have been allowed there. So, why did it make to the news only now?
In America, it would sound like this:
Officer: Do you have a TV license?
Person: Nope.
Officer: Good, because we don't have those here like in some unfortunate countries.
Person: Damn right. You think they need licenses to read books too?
Officer: Probably. You know how much it sucks over there.
Person: Over where?
Officer: Who cares?
Person + Officer: Ha hahahah hahahahahhaha!!!
Person: Hey, wanna beer?
Officer: Whoa there! I'm on duty...so no more than two or three.
Just because the U.S. is the greatest country in the world doesn't mean we're superior...oh wait, yes it does.
Big deal, stateside our Telly is FREE as in beer. You have some good points, but cut out the socialist dreams buddy.
I sig, therefore I was.
it's a dog license with the word dog scratched out and TV written over in crayon, of course.
you get them from the Ministry of Housing.
You lose freedom the minute you start to mindlessly follow orders, be it religions or governments. Continual dissent is a duty in these trying times, and moreover regarding such silly obstructions... 1949 for God's sake ! You don't need politicians to fix this, just do it yourself !
Fascism starts when the police is in people's head as well as in people's streets.
Specifically, they ought to allow unlicensed transmitters below a certain output power (anyone know what the iTrip's broadcast power is?).
Should be a couple of nanowatts. In order to be legal in the U.S., the field strength needs to be under 250uV/m when measured at a distance of 3m. Plugging that into the conversion formula, assuming that it has a 1/4 wave antenna (which it doesn't because the device is too small) this would give you a power level of 18.75nW. Given that the thing has a much shorter antenna than 1/4 wave (1/4 wave would be 75cm long), it may have more power to compensate for this.
(For those that actually look up the conversion formula linked above, we're solving for P, E is 250uV/m, or 250e-6, and D is 3m. A 1/4 wave antenna has a gain of 0.15dB or 1.035X. As such, I set G to 1 as "close enough.")
www.wavefront-av.com
stateside telly is crap, crap as in American beer.
Why am I not surprised about this, given the U.K.'s insistance that you need to buy a license just to interpret the signals you receive.
In particular I mean TV.
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/
I heard there used to be a radio license as well!
It's comical to think they actually spend money going door to door in a fancy truck looking for unlicensed TVs. Heaven forbid you might actually privately and unobtrusively interpret the radio signals passing through your body for free!
Sounds like the U.K. government thinks it owns the spectrum outright instead of treating it as public property to be arbitrated.
I picked up one of these low power FM transmitters for my Nomad Jukebox for use in a Very Long road trip. While mid-range sound was OK, highs and lows were virtually non-existant. (Luckilly, I also brought along a lot of CDs, so I didn't loose it somewhere out on I-10.)
Any suggestions for brands/models which yield signals with good sound quality?
Do you have a flaaaaaaag?
190 what?
From the TV Licensing site:
Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
Common mistake. You need a TV licence if you have equipment capable of receiving television signals and it is used for that purpose, eg. a detuned TV used for watching pre-recorded video cassetes or closed circuit televison would not require one. A televison monitor (not necessarily with a UHF tuner) connected to a satellite receiver pointing at a satellite which is not uplinked to from the UK and used for watching, say, high quality Swedish erotica would still require one.
Gareth
I lived in the states for years and I don't remember the beer being free. Hell, I couldn't even buy beer without showing government-issued ID. Nor could I drink it on the sidewalk outside my own home (not to mention outside downtown bars on a hot summer evening). I bet that even in soviet russia you could enjoy a vodka by the river
in the summer, without being forced to show your papers. Looks to me like in the US, beer is not only not free as in free beer, it's not even free as in free speach.
What I do remember is the TV being shit, apart from a handful of good shows. I was particularly unimpressed by the way Fox news would advertise its lead stories several days in advance. How did they know...BTW, you do realise that commercial US TV is not truly free? How do you think Jennifer Aniston's hairstyle is funded - by YOU paying more at the stores for all those products that have to recover the millions of dollars spent on TV ads...
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
lol - MOD parent up plz
With this kind of attitude towards change ( delegation VS direct action ), no GNU nor Linux would exist, and these are actually rather trivial examples globally speaking. Representation isn't worth shit the day people embody change by their own actions. This ain't chaos, it's responsability.
you get 2 commercial free and 4 commercial stations for 190 (pounds? dollars?) a year and we get ~30 commercial free and ~100 commercial for $300-$400 a year.
heaven forbid you had something to watch besides guys dressed in drag
Huh? WTF are you talking about?
I bought an iTrip for use in my 2000 VW Golf GLS (no Raintronic, so no weird coating on the windshield). It doesn't work. It never has. The car's stereo can't pick it up, even if I hold the iPod up through the open sunroof so the whip antenna on the back of the car can see it directly without the sheet metal of the car in the way. I have a European radio retrofitted into the car but that should have no effect as the only difference in the FM band is that it will try to tune to even-numbered frequencies as well as odd ones. (Too bad transmitters won't broadcast on those freqs, as I guarantee no regular commercial station in the US will be licensed for an even numbered frequency.)
Anyone want to buy it? Seriously. I want to get rid of the thing. My solution is going to be hardwiring an adapter to the car's CD changer plug and adding a switch that lets me toggle between the CD changer (I got one used off another VW owner, cheap) and the RCA inputs.
And the other FM transmitter I have, a Belkin TuneCast, doesn't work either -- if a radio broadcast so much 'looks' at it crosseyed, it's static hell.
Low-power FM transmission is, in my experience, a joke and a marketing tool. It ranges from nonexistent to having more static than an interplanetary broadcast from Martians.
i am a soviet space shuttle
Can you imagine broadcasting your entire MP3 collection throughout your entire college dorm building for everyone to hear. Every student could have their own radio station that could only be picked up in the dorm. Why bother downloading the songs when you could actually just tune in to somebody elses ipod broadcast. Don't tell the RIAA.
while living in England (1989) the old guy next door had all sorts of problems with TV licenses, he got busted for having only a Black & White TV license which he'd bought because he had a B&W TV, but they said because he had a VCR which could record in colour, he had to buy the full license... couldn't play it back, wasn't interested in colour.
I recall they gaved a couple of pounds off if you were blind.
Used to see the van come driving through our suburb every once in a while.
This begs for a reiteration of Slashdot policy on the disclosure to governments of the identity information of criminals, and the policy on reporting to the authorities evidence necessary for law enforcement.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
but as to this
I have found that I can do both. I have my TV in the same room as the computer, I write plenty of code while watching sporting events, movies etc...
I would imagine they give it to shareholders in the form of dividends, or give it to executives in the form of whatever perks the executives want. The BBC doesn't have either of those outgoings. It also makes money by licensing its programmes to broadcasters in other countries, and by selling videos and DVDs of them to the public. A cable or satellite company that (generally) broadcasts programmes made by others wouldn't have those options.
Also, consider that (probably):
number_of_TV_licence_payers * tv_licence_fee = k * number_of_cable_subscribers * average_cable_subscription
where k is some large value. The BBC also receives a subsidy from the Government, although I'm not sure how large it is in relation to the income from the licence fee.
Just another wannabe fantasy novelist...
The inclusion of the mention of 1949 just drips with condescension, like spectrum management is some statist anachronism. Oh, those Evil Governments with laws almost as old as my Dad!
And if there were only a single FM frequency, then we'd all be screwed. However, there are actually 100 possible FM stations. So, if the iTrip device reaches 30 apartments in your building, then we can have 3 people in each unit all using iTrips on different frequencies before this becomes a problem.
This is allowed in the US, and from what I can tell people love their iTrips, and frequency collision doesn't seem to be a problem currently. One could certainly predict the collision rate based on transmitter power, density of users, and available spectrum. I think there's more than enough spectrum to allow, say, a 50 foot transmitter for such devices.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
No flag no country! You can't have one.
"The BBC is not a government department. There is no Minister for the BBC."
I guess that means the U.S. (which keeps its ministers out of govenment and in church....separation of church and state and all that) has no government, since no government department is headed by a minister.
The lengths you go to to deny that a part of government is a part of government.
The BBC also broadcast the BBC World Service on various Shortwave and Medium wave AM frequencies, yet another resource the world can enjoy.
Anyone from the UK who claims the licence fee is disliked is a lunatic fringe idiot who deserves to be pitied. It is unlikely any of these complainers has watched anything on Channel 5 recently, for example.
"The BBC is separate from government by issue of it's Royal Charter."
Oh. I see. The British government does not control it, the Crown does instead!
"If you think they're government lapdogs, speak to Alistair Campbell.
The government media in the United States (NPR and PBS) dumps on G W Bush all the time.
Heh heh. We all got sent those in uni. All of us ignored the letters asking us to say whether we had a license or not. Except one person who wrote back and said she didn't. She of course got threatenning letters saying they didn't believe her while the rest of us got on with our lives.
When I moved house, they started sending the letters again, which I signed and returned. A week or two later a poster went up on the billboard across the road saying "3 addresses at Himalayan Way do not have Television Licenses. We know who they are."
Those posters did seem rather odd, chastising people in public for not owning a television. Granted, some of those named might have been using a television without a license, but given the ease of detecting such things, it seems unlikely.
For those not in the UK, the television licensing authority is an office of clueless twats, who spend their life threatening people with prosecution if they don't pay their television tax. Theoretically the tax is optional, but the TV licensing authority don't seem to have been told this yet. They claim to have sophisticated equipment to track unauthorised televisions, but the most sophisticated tactic they have is to just write to any address without a TV license on the assumption that they're criminal bastards using a TV without permission. Rarely is their assumption given any sort of sanity-check, hence those of us without televisions end up with piles of red printed letters in bold capitals.
Poster is referring to how Americans believe UK residents have been known to think: "I say, you know what is really, really funny? A man dressed in women's clothing. Yes, yes, quite funny indeed."
"I get much of my news from the BBC's website."
Oh yeah, and good luck with the RealPlayer [spit!] video clips on the BBC website...
Well, the BBC isn't funded purely by the license fee. They sell a lot of shows oversees and have a lot of very marketable merchandise. Books, tapes, CDs, videos, DVDs, toys, etc. from BBC shows all sell pretty well. In some cases (e.g. Red Dwarf) because it's very good. In other cases (e.g. Teletubbies) because children have no taste.
Dreams? I'm listening to BBC Radio 4 right now. They also stream over the web, so hop on the bandwagon. Radio 6 is cool too, a comedy and drama channel, with a fair amount of SF in the mix.
BTW, your TV isn't free. Advertising costs money, you pay for it when you buy the products.
If I only had mod points...
Combine a low power FM transmitter like the ITrip or IRock with a MouseCaster(FM radio reciever inside a PS2 mouse, and comes with software that can record FM) and behold, instant peer-to-peer shareing via devices.
Except for the microbreweries. At least one of their radio stations (kexp.org) is very good too.
I understand why they have the licence, but why is there a difference in fees between colour and b&w?
I played with them as a kid, and they still sell them today. They have a range of 200-300ft out of the box (further when I added uhh... modifications...) and could be picked up by an FM radio. As I recall, the ones I bought from Tandy used to interfere with Radio 1. That's far further than the iTrip's range.
Woohoo! The unitied states isn't country where short sighted idiotic laws are passed!
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
I'm quite alarmed at *anyone* use BBC news as their news source. The bias and uninformed reporting to say nothing of the deliberate attempts at casting news events in a certain direction of light makes what once was a good source of information for me a place I now avoid like the plauge. Excepting for the occasional moment that I feel like getting a good laugh or a good scare that is. I still don't get the concept of requiring a license to have a TV. What if you could receive signals in your fillings or dentures, would they assess you a fee then? I can't believe that on a site that promotes such freedom of liberties such as slashdot, that the people on here who live in the UK aren't screaming bloody murder every 5 seconds over such an incredibly stupid and intrusive requirement. But then I can go back and realize that anyone who trusts BBC news for accurate reporting is quite impossible to understand anyway.
I'm sure I'll get modded down, but hey, that doesn't bother near as much as the things I just wrote about.
That is all.
Well, the BBC does have executives. I imagine that they are handsomely paid. I'm not sure if domestic output is subsidised by the government, the World Service probably is though.
"BTW, your TV isn't free. Advertising costs money, you pay for it when you buy the products."
Only if you choose to. I have fun watching NBA games with no intention of getting "obey your thirst" Squirt (or is that Sprite?) or some $110 pair of sneakers.
Reminds me of the Sealab 2021 where Murphy gets bored and decides to run a radio station - Sealab is consequently destroyed by the FCC's battleships.
Take that, fignuts!
there have been cases where owners have successfully argued they watch no TV broadcasts even though they have the equipment.
Not quite. Yes, they successfully proved they did not watch TV broadcasts. However, they still got fined, because the letter of the (bloody stupid) law was being followed, rather than the spirit.
(I can't find a source for this, so it's your word vs mine, but I do recall hearing the outcome on these cases.)
publically owned services can outperform the private sector?
This must be a joke.
Mandatory BBC? 190GBP.
Optional HBO? 144USD.
Returning back into reality from the socialist illusion? Priceless.
This is unusual.
I'm not sure of the laws in practice here (perhaps I should have RTFA) but I do know that some short-range FM transmitters are allowed in the UK, depending on power and frequency. It is of course illegal to transmit anywhere in the FM broadcast band (87.5-108MHZ) and this seems to be where this iTrip is broadcasting. However it's power is such that it can only transmit 30ft, which I thought was legal in the UK, I mean the signal from this thing is not going to leave your house, and we've been able to buy FM hi-fi senders in the UK for years now (though mostly through mail order and thus probably not legally).
This law is not heavilly enforced, and I believe that it's outdated. The law should be changed to allow domestic transmissions of a certain power, though this will be difficult to do since what happens if you drive up the highway with your iTrip or take it to work, you're bound to interfere with what someone's listening to. Perhaps a domestic FM frequency at the top or bottom of the commercial broadcast band could be reserved for such devices, provided they do not exceed a certain power level. This would be a great solution to the problem and would allow a flood of currently pointlessly illegal devices to enter the market.
Those posters did seem rather odd, chastising people in public for not owning a television.
Not only that, but the cost of putting up the full-size advert mentioning how many (all the ones I've seen have been <5) houses have no TV licence almost certainly costs more than the amount they'll get if that number of people pay a licence.
Maybe they just want to give the poor sods who can't afford colour tv, a break? :)
Thats right, just the world service has some sort of government funding. The rest is via TV licence and BBC worldwine profit.
This will solve the interference problem, as well as give much better sound quality. Also it will allow easier hook-up of other equipment, like much less wiring to install carkits, voice-over for navigation systems, etc.
The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
Its 116 - giving you 2 normal tv channels, as well as 2 (4 if you ignore the fact they are half time channels) and annother 2 channels for extra interactive stuff on certain programs and sporting events. This also funds the BBC website, Ceefax, digital teletext as well as all the radio stations.
Actually that's not true. There aren't 100 possible stations. The FM band is almost full as it is, since you have to put your station on a slightly different frequency in different parts of the country if your station is nationwide. This is to prevent cross-modulation or (interference as the carriers from two different transmission stations on the same frequency overlap when you're situated between them). This is why some stations say that they're on a frequency RANGE and not an absolute frequency (radio 4 is on 92-95MHz).
Also since the FM band is divided up into individual possible stations every 0.5MHz, there's actually only 41 possible stations (the band is 87.5 - 108 MHz).
Yes and so is RS232 but both are useful to interface to legacy equipment. I.e. how otherwise can you get a signal to a car stereo that has no input jacks available?
How difficult would it be to amend this law to allow short range (<10m?) FM Transmiters or transmition on a specific frequency? Scanning through the FM radio spectrum most of it seems to be just plain static.
Does this law also apply to short range AM transmitters?
Lets start a petition...
Imagine all the fun I could have by broadcasting to a station my neighbors were listening to!
... moron .. Go get a girlfriend.
It would be the best time I ever had in my life! Loads of fun.
- Voxel
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
well, lets not be misleading. you mean 116 pounds, don't you? which is about $185.
also, the HBO price that the previous poster mentions gives you 7 channels for that price (just follow his link).
I'm not saying the bbc sucks. the bbc is cool, but it's not like high-quality for-pay television programming doesn't exist outside the UK.
I think it's a historical thing. Back in the '60s, when colour TV was introuced, it was more expensive to produce, so those equipped to receive it paid more than those still struggling along with 405-line VHF sets (like my family).
It used to be the case that people registered blind could have a colour set and only pay for a black & white licence. Nowadays, they just get a 10 quid reduction. So I suppose if a partially-sighted person wanted to save money, they could get an old black & white set from a junkshop and only pay 28.50.
(Totally OT, but I've always thought it mildly amusing that one of the first BBC shows produced in colour was The Black & White Minstrel Show ;-)
Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
I find it AMAZING that you have to pay for a license for an object which PASSIVELY receives broadcasts... I might understand a tax when you BUY the set, but a licence? It's simply dumbfounding to me.
"We have reason to believe that you have unlicensed technology in your home. If you have nothing to hide, you won't mind us coming in to take a look around." What the hell?
I'd assume 190 units of some superpower's currency is worth about 116 pounds sterling. Dollars? Euros?
So I go check xe.com's converter, and 116 GBP is in fact close to 190 USD.
Back in the early '80s, AIWA used to have a little FM trasmitter that plugged into their walkmen, and you used FM radio headphones to listen to it.
I don't recall the UK having a problem with people using them.
Could they set a precedent?
Max.
Max.
Just a question, but does HBO also have advets on it, and can you get it with having to pay some other fee first?
I remember once reading a book on basic electronics which had plans for a simple radio transmitter. It included a disclaimer that suggested that by linking the aerial of the transmitter to the aerial of the reciver you could avoid violating the regulations.
I know it seems overly simplistic, but would it get you off the hook?
HBO has promotions for its other shows, but not traditionaal advertisements. Also, it shows the promos between movies, not during them.
fees depend on the cable provider, but most won't let you get only HBO (i.e. you have to get regular tv plus hbo) so you have to pay for the regular stations, which aren't much. sattelite providers may let you buy only the channels you want, I don't know.
I think this is an excellent pun, and deserves to be congratulated.
Slashdot entertains. Windows pays the mortgage.
" The capitalist-anarchists call themselves "Libertarians" in the States"
/. than in the general public, because most people are affluent and selfish"
The "capitalist" part is redundant: in the most anarchistic system imaginable, you have capitalism (since capitalism is a result of economic freedom).
There is a wing that calls themselves "anarchists" on the left, that spends most of its time outlining how government should take a much greater roll in bossing people around. These are the "totalitarian anarchists".
"It's more common on
It has nothing to do with selfishness on the part of the libertarian. It has to do with the realizations of the dangers of government power.
I know they're aiming it for the iPod market, but it really hurt them to list some basic compatibilities? I'm not going to buy in iPod just to use this thing, so all they're doing is cutting themselves off from any potential sales.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
eg. a detuned TV used for watching pre-recorded video cassetes or closed circuit televison would not require one
When exclusivly used for watch CCTV/DVD's etc. Indeed, a tuned TV used in that matter is also fine without a license, however I'm not sure where the burden of proof comes in.
A televison monitor (not necessarily with a UHF tuner) connected to a satellite receiver pointing at a satellite which is not uplinked to from the UK and used for watching, say, high quality Swedish erotica would still require one.
That's not how I understand the wireless telegraphy act (AFAIK it only applies to signals broadcast from the UK), however IANAL, or a UK resident.
A better headline for this article would be "Low-power FM Transmitters Still Banned in UK". Nothing new here.
As for the atory submitter's comment:
"Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
If you're willing to lose your life over a mere techno-gadget, I worry about you. But then again, this is Slashdot...
It's the same in Germany. I call this TV/radio license thing THEFT.
So do I, its exactly the same as a tax. I pay tax which funds schools, yet I dont use schools. I have no choice but to pay that tax. Taxes are theft.
However If you are a left wing knumbskull that thinks taxes are right, and not theft, they you cant call a tv license theft.
Ha ha. Thanks for the laugh! Moron.
Hi retard, pissed your knickers again? It'll be back to the home with you.
To quote from the BBC website:
"The BBC is run in the interests of its viewers and listeners. Twelve governors act as trustees of the public interest and regulate the BBC. They are appointed by the Queen on advice from ministers.
The BBC's governors safeguard its independence, set its objectives and monitor its performance. They are accountable to its licence payers and Parliament, and publish an Annual Report assessing the BBC's performance against objectives.
Day-to-day BBC operations are run by 16 divisions. Their directors report to the director-general, forming the Executive Committee. It answers to the Board of Governors."
If anyone wants proof that the BBC is not controlled by the UK government, they need look no further than here.
Please, could you provide some specific examples of bias and uninformed reporting by the BBC? The allegation you make is serious, either provide some supporting evidence, or shut up. Incidentally, I notice that nobody from the UK has mentioned yet that you get a discount on the TV licence if you're registered blind.
Instead of my usual rants about pretentious non-tv owners, now I just refer people here:
v ision.html
Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television
http://www.theonion.com/onion3604/doesnt_own_tele
144 USD for one station, with commercials.
116 GDB (got my original figures wrong - about 180 USD) for 5 national TV stations, 5 national radio stations (plus dozens of local stations), the best news service on the web (not to mention radio and TV), live coverage (TV, radio and web) of all the major sporting events, and not a commercial or fund-drive in sight or earshot.
Not to mention that many HBO dramas are coproduced with the BBC (eg emmy-winning Gathering Storm), so you're also benefiting from our license fees.
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
i just bought one! i live in alaska and no one cares :)
Now what I don't understand is this: the BBC can put out about 6 TV channels (including the digital ones) and dozens of radio stations (including local radio) for a charge of only 190 per year per household -- without needing any advertising income. This is far less than the cost of most cable or satellite TV subscriptions - and yet cable stations usually have as many commercials as free-to-air stations, and the programs rarely better BBC quality. What do they do with their money?
DirecTV premium channel package = $12/month = $144/year
Choose from:
HBO = 7 channels
Starz = 12 channels
Showtime = 9 channels
Cinemax = 3 channels
I'd like to have an el-cheapo car stereo with a "line-in" function and an AM/FM radio. Why fool with klunky low power radios and cassette adapters? It's not like the interface is bulky or expensive -- look at cheap sound cards.
If anyone has seen something like this, please let me know.
GF
Lots of petrified grits
Such an intelligent comment. When one has nothing substantive to respsond with, one resorts to name calling. Always. Thanks for proving my point.
Here in NZ we seem to be somewhere between the UK and the US (as in many other things).
The top and bottom 1 MHz of the FM band is reserved for unlicensed transmission with an effective radiated power of less than 300 mW. So as long as you tune your iTrip to 88 - 89 MHz or 107 - 108 MHz you're fine.
I've been wondering about getting an iTrip once the version for the new model iPod is available (Apple changed the connectors on the top...), but my car's radio.casette has a line-in (marked "CD") on the front panel anyway, and that's better quality.
Thanks for the info. I have only been to London myself and was not lucky enought to see the rest of England. Here in the US we have someplaces that are REALLY in the the middle of no where. :)
A friend of mine bought some land from his grand parents to help them out. This land is really in the middle of nowhere. Afer landing at the nearest airport they could find they drove for 6 hours to a tiny town that he claims had a population of 6. There at the local bar (one of two buildings in the town) the local bar keep offered to show him where his land was. After two more hours in the car he found his land. Nice rocks:) Even thought the town had all of 6 people the bar had a dish to get satalite tv
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
You usually have to go up to the top of the US tiers in cable or satellite before you can order HBO, which means you're spending at least $70 per month + about $8 for HBO.
So, you fellows in the UK also have laws which restrict narcotics? How well is that working at keeping those chemicals off the street market?
oh, you forgot that you have to pay $70 per month before you can get to the premium tier.
Most of those stations don't have origional programming, which has fixed costs (production) vs invented sums (licensing for movies, reruns etc). The BBC has gobs of origional programming in addition to other peoples.
"See that boat over there? It's rebroadcasting major league baseball with implied oral consent... Not express written consent!"
"Government-controlled? Is that why Blair and Alistair Campbell and friends are so upset with them lately?"
There is only upset because the BBC didnt tow the lie for once.
If they were not expected to it would not be an issue.
Try the british C4 for news that offends Conan Powel (www.channel4.com/news)
This perpetual motion machine Lisa made is a joke, it just keeps getting faster and faster. - Homer
"Like the lengths you go to deny the church and state are linked when most of GWBs campaign funds are form the Christian Right?"
The "Christian Right" is largely shibboloth made by people of other religions on the left. In any case, only a small amount of his campaign funds come from there.
In any case, even if you were right, name the church that is linked to the State. Name it.
You can't. The church and state are not linked.
" The quality is pretty good"
Actually, the quality is *abysmal*, but then, now I understand why people think AAC/MP3/WMP tunes at 128kb "sound just like the CD".
"I guess it just goes to prove that with the right management and funding, publically owned services can outperform the private sector."
If by "management" you mean, "pass legislation to force people to pay for state-run programming" then yes, this is a much better solution.
"This is important, because if just anybody set up shop, soon the radio waves would be a mess of people just putting stuff out, and nobody could hear the station they wanted too - just the one with the biggest pen- ah, broadcast antennae."
Reality just came crashing through and smack you in the face like a dead mackrel.
The united states with a population significantly higher than England allows the use of these transmitters without license and no chaos (0) (zero) (nothing) (nada) (not a bit) (swoosh!) results.
So at this point, its government's desire to control more than any real reason.
There are good puns?
Charles K. Clarkson
Many people truly want to help. Unfortunately, many people truly suck at it.
Radio 6 is music not talk.
Radio 1 - "Youth" music programming
1 Xtra - Black music
Radio 2 - Popular music programming
Radio 3 - Classical and alternative music programming
Radio 4 - Speech radio
Radio 5 - News and Sports
5 Live Sports Extra - Extended coverage of live sports events
Radio 6 - 80s and 90s Rock to Indie style music programming
Radio 7 - Archive talk and comedy Programming
Asian Network - Asian broadcasting
Not to mention a network of regional stations, and 8 national TV stations. This includes thte UK version of C-SPAN, a 24 Hour TV rolling news channel, 2 childrens channels, a youth TV channel and a more high brow TV channel for arts, films, documentaries and the like.
The government pay for World Service and BBC World programming
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
First of all, I'm Canadian.
Second, I am not suggesting that the BBC is owned by the government.
I want to know where the TV-licensing money goes. To the BBC (and other channels), right?
Therefore, the BBC is getting funding from the government. Is there something I don't understand?
I have an iRock, which works pretty well, but sucks down the batteries, and I liked the look of the iTrip as well as it's ability to tune any station.
In reality, the iTrip rarely works, and having the radio stations on my iPod ends up sucking as I like to have my song list on random, so now I have 50 or more songs that periodically play a few beeps.
Overall, the iRock works far better, and is worth having to replace the batteries every 15-20 hours or use rechargeables.
Doh, quite right. I meant BBC7.
First of all, I'm Canadian.
Apologies. Your accent sounds the same on my monitor ;-)
The license is paid to 'TV Licensing' a part of the BBC
The BBC has a charter guaranteeing its independence from government which is reviewed every 15? years or so
Given that the maximum possible term a government can serve is 5 years it's quite hard to for a political party (and they've had serious run-ins with all 3 main parties) to bear pressure onto the BBC
--
This sig is inoffensive.
"Yes lef-tenant Sebastian, hwhat is it?"
"It's the rebels sir. They're here."
"Good lord man, do they want tea?"
"No sir, they seem to have brought a flag with them."
Herd of sheep.
Sure I've heard of sheep!
No, no, no, sheep herd!
What the hell do I care what a sheep herd?