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Low-power FM Transmitters Banned in UK
Acey writes "The BBC News is reporting that the Griffin iTrip falls foul of the UK Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 (PDF). In short, the iTrip is an unlicensed FM transmitter and that's not allowed. The UK distributor, A M Micro, have pulled the iTrip. More ominously they warn that "Use of the iTrip in the UK therefore constitutes an offence and can lead to prosecution of the User". Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
N__Lord's penis_______8.',-N
I_____________________#',-.I
S__Jesus wants your__8',-..S
-__anus, and he_____#~',-..-
P__wants it NOW! ___8_',-..P
E__________________##',-',-E
N__An original_____8',-',";N
I__TrollKore(TM)_____##',-',";I
S__work of art.___8',-',";.S
-__By Dessimat0r ##',-',";.-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
N______________8(',-',";,..N
I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
S__________#8#8_',-',";,.,.S
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I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
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E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
All you cock-loving fuckers out there, here is a special treat for you bastards, take a look at this knob. NOW SUCK IT, MOTHERFUCKERS!
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Any rewards for turning people in?
bite my ass, bitch.
Love Always,
News For Turds
sounds like they want to keep the air free of interference. Aren't there lots of pirate radio stations in England?
How exactly will they enforce this? Will it be like a second degree offence, like seat belts are in some US states?
"What we have here is a failure to communicate"
The Warden, Cool Hand Luke
michael is a fag
fp biotch
Why do you people put up with their buillshit?
For all you people (like myself) who had no idea what iTrip is/was, here's the link from googles cache.
From the page: You are looking at the coolest iPod accessory in the world. The iTrip FM transmitter for the iPod can play your music through any FM radio in your car, at a party, wherever the mood strikes you - and you have a radio.
How can someone with nothing but a CD player/radio in their car, listen to their iPod on their car stereo, except by using the iTrip?
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
Walkie-talkies should be banned as their signals can be picked up by an FM receiver (at least my old action man ones could, although the range was about 3 metres)
Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands.
/me prises your iTrip from your cold dead hands.
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
What do you expect from a country where the main media, BBC, is owned and controlled by the government, and nazis in vans prowl around and bust people for having TV's without paying a tribute?
What about the Neuros' built-in low-power FM transmitting capability? Are those illegal to use in the UK also? It all seems a bit excessive to me, considering the tiny range.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
This could/can be the begining of eclectic microstations. You can tune into a 24/7 iTrip at work/your building/bus stop etc., instead of listening to one of big conglomerate boring stations.
My other sig is an ambulance!
Some early/mid 90's cars with cd players added in the trunk broadcast on like channel 88. something, which is what the user tunes to, to listen to cds.
(This is before 6 cd changers in-dash existed)
This is the same thing. Would these be illegal in the UK too?
There's **SO** many places where you can BUY FM bugs in the UK despite the fact that to USE them is illegal, and the position on radio scanners and traffic speed detectors is pretty much the same -- yet you don't read about the suppliers being prosecuted day in day out, so I guess AM Micro is being a tad over-cautious.
AT&ROFLMAO
Seems excessive, but if you lived in an apartment complex, you could have some serious fun with one of these things broadcasting to the station your neighbor happens to be listening to. :)
They just had a review of the itip over at tubgirl tech archive
...could have anything to do with this? They are rapidly setting themselves up as 'audio-fascists', and are probably afraid that such devices would be hacked (e.g. provided with a more powerful amplifier and a bigger antenna) and thus become an unlicensed (and hence NON-MONEY-MAKING) FM station...
It seems like the RIAA want to enforce a situation where ONLY "approved", tribute-paying stations have ANY sort of FM transmitter equipment.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
This law was written in 1949! Probably to stop people from setting up unlicensed radio stations (ie. commercial FM). These devices didn't exist!
On the one side, I can understand the Governments position:
Thou Shalt Not have Unlicensed Radio Transmitters.
This is important, because if just anybody set up shop, soon the radio waves would be a mess of people just putting stuff out, and nobody could hear the station they wanted too - just the one with the biggest pen- ah, broadcast antennae.
On the other hand, I think the range of this thing is - what - 10 to 30 feet? Watch out, Britian! Those pirate radios will be able to be heard from the other room! Anarchy and chaos as Julie tries to dance to Nsync while Dad's got his iPod broadcasting the Spice Girls in the other room! Mum - you'd best be keeping that "Black Mages" heavy metal to yourself!
This seems more like an issue of someone in beurocracy[SIC] getting a bug up their ass and not using common sense more than anything else.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
So, like, is a Mr. Microphone illegal in the U.K.? And did I just date myself by mentioning Mr. Microphone?
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
Who is that? Homer McElroy?
-Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands.
No, it would just take a uniformed constable. Let's not overestimate ourselves here.
I've tried a few such devices for hooking my MP3 player to my car, and they all sucked. Interference, bad tuning, low power etc.
Just suck it up and either get a head unit with AUX inputs (usually a headphone jack on the front) or get the neat doodad that allows you to use the inputs for the trunk-mounted CD changer that you don't use any more since you bought your iPod. Google PIE and AUX for distributors of those boxes.
You can't transmit freely with a high powered trasmitter according to the FCC without a license.
Life is not for the lazy.
GriffinTech should be paying for this spot because I never heard of this thing and I just plopped down my credit card! $35 + Shipping. It is the coolest thing around. I can't wait to use this....no more wires plugging into a tape deck!
Ignored Since 1973
I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.
with much gayness,
Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.
And how do they use their X10 stuff?
... to overthrow the BBC Monopoly on broadcasting in Britain. This has to be a throwback to the kind of thinking that led to licenses to own radios and televisions, and the Gestapo-like radio detector vans. As bad as the FCC has been, on occasion, it has never been as draconian as the British governments stranglehold on the airwaves.
Many years ago I remember reading a British electronics hobbyist magazine which had an article on how to build a metal detector. There was a warning that before using it you needed to go to a government office and get a pipe finders license.
It seems like the legislature, the broadcasters, and the consumers, ought to be able to work out an exception provision to the existing laws.
Specifically, they ought to allow unlicensed transmitters below a certain output power (anyone know what the iTrip's broadcast power is?).
I mean, the spectrum licensees have a vested and understable interest in keeping their airwaves free of interference, but I don't think low-power transmissions like these had been envisioned when the law was codefied (receivers were a wee bit less sensitive and precise in 1949, methinks).
Xentax
You shouldn't verb words.
You'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands.
Whatever you say, Charlie
Not very surprising, the WTA covers all FM and AM transmitters, the only exceptions being those licensed for public bands (such as PMR446, 2.4GHz for low-range CCTV monitors and wifi, 49MHz baby monitors and any 27MHz gear rated at below 50mW (ie radio control transmitters)). Everything else requires a license. HAM Radio requires an annual license fee, as does C27/81-CB28/94 (CB Radio on 27MHz (is this still covered under licensing? Last I heard they were abolishing 27/81 in favor of the newer banding. Answers on a postcard...) and 28MHz Euro bands); you can even be charged under the WTA for building and using a crystal AM transmitter (lots of hobby electronic kits have schematics and parts for building these, and they have a range of only twenty FEET!)
I mean, can't they ratify laws to allow low power FM devices access? The transmission radius of the device is a meer 10 to 30 feet. Indeed, it runs off an extremely low power input and wouldn't have the power to transmit very far anyway. I'd be surprise if it *COULD* interfere with other cars' radios.
I think it'd be simpler and more economically beneficial to ratify the law to allow LPFM devices on the market. They're obviously allowed in the USA. Indeed, take a look at the 300-in-1 electronics kits from Radio Shack, which allow one to build one's own LPFM transmitter.
I just checked the specs - there's not going to be any frequency drift (it has a PLL) and complies to FCC specifications. Granted these are US specifications...
I simply don't see the point in denying a market for a neat (and harmless) transmitter.
I'm not even sure that it's possible to boost the power on these devices to expand the transmission radius -- this would likely cause a need for circuit redesign. Those are my thoughts, anyway. IANAEE.
www.sitetronics.com/wordpress
According to reports, two other countries - Austria and Iceland - have also stopped sales of the iTrip because of problems with radio frequencies.
I remember building FM/AM transmitters as teen, cool to be my own DJ...America still home of the free!!!
Wise men speak because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something!!!!
" License fees are a means of ensuring quality, ad-free television"
Great way to put a spin on it. If in America, CBS managed to force everyone to pay CBS fees, they'd make the same claim.
" Better democratic control than just being an outlet for corporations."
Translation of socialist double-speak: "Better that the government decides than the viewers decide"
Geeze, just think about it. I don't know the laws in the surrounding (ok, nearby) nations, but think of the black market for these now. An easy 500% price increase to anyone selling one. Remember when blue jeans were going for $500 or so in the USSR? So will this create a nasty black market for a simple, innocent device or will it force the legislators to review the law?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
How will I pick up the chicks? How will I karoake? How will I LIVE?!?!?!
In short; more paranoia from the music regulatory authorities. A couple of milliwatts of power - an iTrip probably has less range than the average infra-red remote control.
I'm patiently waiting for them to begin outlawing that part of the electromagnetic spectrum ... :-/
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
The FM range 88 - 108 MHz has been used for wireless microphones for ages - how are these Griffin Itrips any different?
Video Game cheats, hints a
Isn't the iTrip just like any of the dozens of other low power FM transmitters on the market today? I recall using one years ago with my JVC DiscMan, and I know they were around even back to the handheld cassette player days, for playing those on your car stereo. I've personally got an iRock for my pod for road trips.
The USA has a limit (what is it, 10mW?) that anything running under that transmit strength doesn't have to be licensed because it's too weak to cause interferance. My iRock has a range of about 15 feet from my truck, on an empty station. I sometimes have to switch its channel though because even sitting on my dash, 2 feet from my antenna, it can still be overpowered by local radio stations along my route. I don't see how the UK's equivelant of the FCC seriously considers this any kind of hazard.
I understand different countries will have different regulations etc., but is this a case of the UK completely banning any such devices, or is it just a case of Apple neglecting to get a license for the iTrip in the UK, and the UK deciding to make an example of 'zero tolerance' of their airwave laws?
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Certain models of the XM Radio use a small FM transmitter to send the audio to the car's stereo system. Are XM radio's illegal in the UK?
Elijah Chancey www.elijahsadventure.com nomadic IT consultant, bicycling across america "all that you touch / and all
Why the fuss over low power FM? Because it allows anyone to become a broadcaster or content creator. By raising the specter of 'interference', broadcasters and others can FUD the legislatures into banning enabling technologies like this.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
" Why is this marked as informative? It shows gross ignorance. The BBC is independent of the government via mandate."
Yet, the government is the one that pays its $$$$, and controls the mandates too.
" The BBC isn't owned, or controlled or funded by the government."
Yes it is. If it weren't, the government would not be forcing a single sole to pay license fees to it.
At last count, there were already ~80 pirate radio stations in the Greater London area alone. The authorities are obviously not having a lot of luck shutting down illegal transmitters. Just order one from the States and stop worrying about it, for heaven's sakes!
"Use of the iTrip in the UK therefore constitutes an offence and can lead to prosecution of the User". Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
This view seems to becoming more prevalent. An illegal action or device is banned or otherwise action taken against, and people just ignore it because it doesnt suit them. This device is illegal, and it hasnt even just been made illegal, its been illegal for a good number of decades, so under what premise do you think you should be allowed to continue using it? I bet you will be crying foul if you get caught!
Yes this device is low powered, but that doesnt matter. Under the aformentioned act, it is illegal, and if you want to use one, then please speak to your local MP! Do not start ignoring laws that inconvienince you, as this is where anarchy starts to creep in.
I can hear the cries for compensation for these now useless devices already, either from the UK government or the company that sold them. I dont think you should get a refund or compensation from either source, as they are covered under an already existing law, and you should have checked the legality of these items before you purchased.
Your best course of action now, to recover your costs? Ebay the suckers i think.
Any rewards for turning people in..?
The UK has *not* just passed a new law banning the iTrip specifically or deliberately, as half the posters on slashdot seem to believe.
The distributors of the iTrip, having taken legal advice, have decided that use of the iTrip probably constitutes a breach of an old law about FM broadcasting and have therefore chosen not to distribute it here.
Nothing has actually changed and British police are not about to start hunting down people with suspicious bulges on the top of their iPods.
erroneous: look me up in a dictionary
It's really cool and broadcasts a LOT farther than it says in the manual - it supposed to only broadcast within 10 feet but when we went camping, it was transmitting w/o any problems up to 60 feet. We had two cars' stereos tuned to the same station and playing music ranging from old-school rap to Skinny Puppy and other weird stuff. People who were walking by were very confused.
Has anyone tried this in heavy, slow traffic?
All countries regulate use of the wireless spectrum. It's just that in Britain the exemptions for low-power devices don't happen to cover this kind of device, unlike the USA apparently. Nothing to do with the music industry at all.
I don't own one, but my brother does; IIRC, the iTrip can broadcast on one of four FM frequencies: 89.1, 89.3, 89.5, or 89.7. This is because frequencies that low are usually only taken by local college/community stations, and most commercial stations use a frequency from 90.1 on up.
Knowing the RIAA, they will most likely follow suit... We wouldn't want anyone thinking they have become 'softies' would we? Honestly, I don't see the problem here, since it seems that this transmitter/jammer is of low power consumption, it is reasonable to assume that it's transmission properties could not spread to far from the source of the Jammer itself... Not to say the RIAA won't want in on this as well. After all, they have the image of 'Big Brother' to uphold...
Business \Busi"ness\, n.;
A scam in which all people involved perceive as beneficial...
...that all Americans are anarchists.
It must be just an illusion..?
If I pinch myself I'll wake up and realise they are all modest, sensible and responsible worls citizens...
Ethics is what you say you do. Morals is what you actually do.
Why not just use a tape adaptor? I had one that came with my DiscMan, and I use it with my iPod in the car all the time. Just plug it in the iPod's headphone jack.
Seriously, I don't see what the fuss over these mini FM transmitters is all about. They're bulky and require their own batteries. For car use, I'd much rather use a tape adaptor.
"Dude, it's time to kill your TV!"
After you kill your TV, you can burn all your books, toss your radio in the river, and shred your magazines.
The joys of censorship. Can't have those bad ideas enter, ever!
Yes I realize you're not a guy, so don't take the 'Man' bit personally. ^_-
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
"In the US, the only thing that will ever see network airtime is Lowest Common Denominator crap,"
translation = what people want to see.
"In the UK, voters elect MPs who *can* influence what the BBC considers worthwhile programming."
Alright, lets have government officials micro-manage TV content!
I'd rather control CBS in the more direct way: turn the channel when I don't like it, watch it when I do. The advertising system results in a much more direct sort of accountability that means that the content much more directly represents what people want to see.
I am about to get one of these, and the fact thats its illegal wont make any difference (see: hash). Dispite thinking its a little out of whack, I can see the reasoning. If I lived next door to someone who had one of these, and they played spice girls on repeat, and coincidently on my fave band, I think it would piss me of somewhat. Paul.
Glad i ordered my iTrip yesterday... Ironically enough... www.ipodlounge.com had an article yesterday
The wireless telegraphy act makes sense. We're only a small country and a typical radio FM transmitter can cover a fair proportion (about 1/10-1/20) of the population. Just my twiddling a screw in most FM transmitters, you can get it to broadcast on any frequency, and (for instance) stick it in your local neighbourhood and broadcast something other than your local radio station on a specific frequency. Video senders (boxes that transmit video signals over UHF and FM bandwidths so a TV upstairs can pick it up) were banned for a while for similar reasons. They found a way to make them legal and everything was fine :-)
The UK government announces a total ban on these additional products that emit energy in regulated broadcast frequencies including: electric razors, motorized childs' toys, internal combustion engines that use spark plugs, bug zappers, light dimmers, flourescent light fixtures, arc welders, and any toy rubber balloon that is marketed primarily for rubbing against wool or hair. Additional banned items may be announced in the future as more products are evaluated.
There are plenty of licensed frequencies for things like that - 458MHz for starters (if my memory serves) - just they're not in the FM band. UK X10 RF controllers (eg, from www.letsautomate.co.uk) use 458MHz.
Come to think of it, I don't think garage door openers in the states are in the FM band either.
The US is more the exception than the rule; many countries ban transmission in the FM band - it's just the US has a get-out for very low power transmitters.
Since the laws require a licence for any body to run a radio station,UK and more commonly London have a lot of pirate radio stations mainly in the FM band.
. .almost everything on earth.In fact some of the more popular pirate stations have made it mainstream.
Take your radio and scan and you can listen to latin,salsa,spanish,french,grunge,garage,hip-hop.
So this is no big deal except that you cant buy this little gizmo anymore in the high street.
Wanted : A Signature.
Sheesh, they have programs on US television? Whenever I've been in a hotel I channel-surfed for ages but could only find advertisements.
Dating yourself is a tradition among slashdot readers, and...oh, you meant...I thought that you were talking about...never mind
I live here in the UK (London) and I have never heard so many pirate stations. They are the only good radio stations here. As if this will matter.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
How does this affect CD changers that use the same trick - namely transmitting a low power FM signal that your car stereo can pick up?
So, the government does not collect money, but an agency of the government (BBC does)?
That is like saying "THe United States federal government does not collect money. The IRS does this instead"
No, nobody is going to bother to enforce the law. It it doesn't cause a problem who cares? It is a complete non-story.
Like the ability of Freemen of London to heard sheep (or not) over London Bridge lots of laws lie around long after the environment they related to has changed out of all recognition.
I think the range of this thing is - what - 10 to 30 feet?
Excuse my ignorance - information please. Would the iTrip be broadcasting on frequencies that might be used by emergency services (fire, ambulance, police..)? This is usually one of the 'safety' reasons for being unhappy about illegal broadcasting that UK gov. gives when having a go at pirate radio stations.
What is the distance these things can broadcast to? In the UK, 30 feet can quite easily mean from your room right into the middle of the town high street (lots of UK towns still follow mediaeval street plans). So I guess if they *do* broadcast on channels the govt. wants to use, and they *do* broadcast 30 feet, the govt *will* be upset. Don't want dead spots down the street where old Bill can't pick up base station...
...not something that will ever catch on in the US.
The part of the US radio regulations which make these devices is Part 15, which specifically addresses low-powered unlicensed devices on a variety of bands. It spells out maximum power outputs and antenna lengths for these devices on AM, FM, the 49 MHz kiddie walkie-talkie band, and so on. Obviously Britain has no such analogous regulation, which is a shame because Part 15 devices seduced many a kid into exploring the magic of electronics.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
FM's are loads of fun. When i was in highschool, me and some classmates went to the cafeteria with our FM-transmitter that we had built on school-hours. The Cafeteria always had the FM-Radio on.
:)
We had lots of fun
YOU FAIL IT!
Heh, I was just trying to remember which episode that was ...
Radio Bart
YS
"Arrr! The laws of science be a harsh mistress." -- Bender
In the US, Part 15 of the FCC regulations governs unlicensed radio transmitters, and basically says two things: first, there are specific bands where you can operate unlicensed with specified power levels (like the 902-928 and 2.4GHz bands), and second, you can transmit anywhere else, including the broadcast bands, with much lower power levels (not specified in actual transmitter power, but in microvolts/meter of received signal strength at a specified difference).
Thus, all these very low power transmitters that talk in the broadcast bands are legal here.
Many other countries don't have nearly so liberal a policy about unlicensed transmitters -- that's why WiFi isn't technically legal in some places (like the Caribbean island that was the topic of an article a few weeks ago) and gadgets like this aren't allowed in the UK.
Although we like to bitch about "big gummint" in the US, at least in the communications arena US policies are far more open than in other parts of the world.
Another (off topic) example: radio scanner enthusiasts here like to complain because it's illegal to listen to cellular phone transmissions. But we can listen to damn near anything else, including police radio, while in many countries listening to any non-broadcast (or non-ham) radio service is strictly forbidden.
This is RADIO CLASH on pirate satalite Orbiting your living room cashing in the bill of rights
"Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
.
iTrip Owners can form a lobbying group
called the iTrip Rights Organization!
Hmm, well maybe the UK wouldn't be too
responsive to a group named the iRA . .
Section 1 of the WT Act 1949 forbids the installation or use of wireless telegraphy equipment (radio) in the UK mainland including Northern Ireland and territorial waters, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, unless:
- an appropriate licence has been obtained from the Secretary of State,
- there are in force Regulations exempting it from licensing.
Short range radio devicesMore and more convenience devices now utilise radio in their operation. Car alarms, wireless door chimes and garage door openers are common examples. Unfortunately not all of these are manufactured in accordance with the relevant technical requirements. The use of non-compliant equipment, is an offence and can lead to interference to authorised users of radio.
It is an offence contrary to the RTTE Regulations to place on the market non-compliant apparatus.
The whole point is spectrum is regulated in the UK and unless the equipment is licensed, then its illegal to use it.
If this thing worked at an exempt frequency, it would be ok, but because it uses the FM Broadcast bands, its not approved for use.
I would also presume the importer wont sell them simply because they could be prosecuted and would have zero defence.
Maybe the concept of a web browser is a little tough for you to grasp, because lord knows we recognise a class A reatard when we see one, but I figure with enough prompting you'll figure it out. Maybe you could make a start by copying & pasting the links the grandparent poster kindly provided into your web browser and pressing enter. Those black marks you see on the monitor are words. Try reading them; ask a grownup to help with the big words. If you have any questions, ask them and they'll be happy to help.
Once you've done that, come back here and carry on reading.
Done that? You had better go potty first, we don't want any accidents. O.K, done?
The BBC is not a government department. There is no Minister for the BBC. There is no office in Whitehall with a sign on the door that says "Governer of the BBC". Tony Blair does not pop in once a week to ensure everything is O.K. The BBC collects it own licence fee, using its own licence fee department. The government has provided the legal means for the licence department of the BBC to enforce the licence laws. This is no different than the government contracting out highway maintainance to a private company. The private company has the legal right to close the highway, divert traffic and lay concrete.
The BBC is an autonomous entity, known as a Corporation (Ask the grownup). It collects & spends its own money and has full editorial control over its output (Next time you see Tony Blair, ask him about Dr. Kelly or "sexed up" evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction).
Now get back to FOX News you litle Randian monkey.
In response to "you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
Your Proposal is Acceptable.
Now, where's a giant space cockroach when you need it.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
You yanks just don't get it
The BBC is separate from government by issue of it's Royal Charter.
If you think they're government lapdogs, speak to Alistair Campbell.
--
This sig is inoffensive.
... that the British Nazis are harassing people into getting a TV?
;->
George Bush is going to have to pick up on that one. It's a ton cheaper than the mind control satellites, now that we don't have a space shuttle to service the uploads (remember the bandwidth of a space-shuttle full of backup tapes...)
Okay, and as per a previous "funny" response to one of my posts, just so you know whether to laugh with me or at me...
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
I guess Britney and all the other pop stars are screwed now that they can't use their wireless microphones in the UK!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Ok, so a Ronco "Mr. Microphone", or an iMrMicrophone would be illegal... should Karaoke in general be outlawed ? I wouldn't want that one put to a vote !
And what about those McDonalds drive-thrus, I think they us FM band ? So do garage door openers and baby monitors !
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
They are responsible! And they assassinated Kennedy! They started the Great Fire of London in 1666! They were all members of the Inquisition! They spread the bubonic plague throughout Europe! They opened the gates of Troy to the Greeks! They're responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs! They created virii! It's all them, I tell you!
I've tried to use these FM transmitters before, and I find them completly worthless. Sure you can find an empty radio station and broadcast your pirate music there, but if you're traveling around, I find that I need to find a new "blank" station every 1/2 hour or so.
Pick the strongest radio station in your city. If the transmitter can't overpower that station while you're driving around, then I don't see the point. Especially if you drive long distances, and the radio stations keep changing.
The bulk of the Wireless Telegraphy Act seems to be aimed at preventing the interference of communique to & from commercial and transport vessels.
That's fine and dandy, but the iTrip does not transmit on frequencies outside of the F.M. spectrum.
If telegraphy is the use or operation of a telegraph apparatus or system for communication, then how is transmitting a low-level FM signal viewed as an interferance? Following this logic wouldn't high-level FM signals be violation of the same act?
If the RIAA was dark-hearted enough to go after broke college radio stations and really small internet radio stations, they'll flip about this.
Couldn't happen to nicer folks.
Go, Springboard, Go!
I am not a laywer, however it is my understanding that since you are broadcasting the music on the FM frequencies you would legally be required to pay royalties for most of the music on your player.
Oh my god, one example of a tape deck and CD player combo! Did you notice the guy said "few", you stupid piece of shit?
I'm glad you like your brand new car so much that you want to wank all over it.
Thank you for wasting our time and for being a waste of matter.
Unless I'm going crazy, there are low power radio transmissions entering the Earths atmosphere 24/7. Are they going to make these illegal too? When will it end? When there is no longer anything to make illegal? Good god people. Electromagnetic radiation is something that has exisited in nature long before some "wise guy" invented it. Fruck, how long until the combination of Oxygen and Hydrogen making up breathable atmosphere is patented? Wasn't there a movie where air had to payed for? Next time there is a high solar activity, I'm suing the Sun.
[Loser] No your honor, I didn't realize that I was breaking the law...
[Honor] Order... Order... I will not let this illegal behavior continue in this court... Contempt... Contempt... By talking you are continuing to contempt this court... if you continue, you will pay dearly... now how do you plead?
[Loser] Uhh, I guess I will...
[Honor] Order... Order... there it is again. Plaintiff, constrain this defendent. Now, one last time Loser, how do you plead...
And Sweden.
:).
Sweden didn't change the paragraph when issuing the Law for Electronic Communications, which went into effect just a week ago! They could easily have allowed low-power transmitters in an exception to the general ban.
Incidently, the Law for Electronic Communications was featured on slashdot a while ago, because it requires site owners to inform their visitors of any use of cookies
Besides, this is a stupid device. Using the FM broadcast band for short-range transmission is obsolete technology. In the 1950s, it might have been tolerable. Today, there are too many RF devices around. A product like this should be transmitting in an ISM band using spread-spectrum, like Bluetooth or WiFi. That's legal in the UK. More modern systems handle interference much better.
In the early days of computing, before the FCC cracked down on unwanted emissions from computers, there were major electronic incompatibility problems. If you brought a Milton Bradley Big Trak within a few feet of a TRS-80, both would crash. The FCC clamped down hard on junk RF from computers, which was a big help in making computers a mass-market product.
The mini transmittors of which iTrip is an example, has NEVER been allowed or legal in UK or in the maority of European Union.
In practise you probably can bring an iTrip woth you there, or sell it to someone living in Europe, and he/she/you are not likely to get to trouble with it. But I can't recall the iTrip-type electronics EVER have been allowed there. So, why did it make to the news only now?
In America, it would sound like this:
Officer: Do you have a TV license?
Person: Nope.
Officer: Good, because we don't have those here like in some unfortunate countries.
Person: Damn right. You think they need licenses to read books too?
Officer: Probably. You know how much it sucks over there.
Person: Over where?
Officer: Who cares?
Person + Officer: Ha hahahah hahahahahhaha!!!
Person: Hey, wanna beer?
Officer: Whoa there! I'm on duty...so no more than two or three.
Just because the U.S. is the greatest country in the world doesn't mean we're superior...oh wait, yes it does.
You lose freedom the minute you start to mindlessly follow orders, be it religions or governments. Continual dissent is a duty in these trying times, and moreover regarding such silly obstructions... 1949 for God's sake ! You don't need politicians to fix this, just do it yourself !
Fascism starts when the police is in people's head as well as in people's streets.
Specifically, they ought to allow unlicensed transmitters below a certain output power (anyone know what the iTrip's broadcast power is?).
Should be a couple of nanowatts. In order to be legal in the U.S., the field strength needs to be under 250uV/m when measured at a distance of 3m. Plugging that into the conversion formula, assuming that it has a 1/4 wave antenna (which it doesn't because the device is too small) this would give you a power level of 18.75nW. Given that the thing has a much shorter antenna than 1/4 wave (1/4 wave would be 75cm long), it may have more power to compensate for this.
(For those that actually look up the conversion formula linked above, we're solving for P, E is 250uV/m, or 250e-6, and D is 3m. A 1/4 wave antenna has a gain of 0.15dB or 1.035X. As such, I set G to 1 as "close enough.")
www.wavefront-av.com
Why am I not surprised about this, given the U.K.'s insistance that you need to buy a license just to interpret the signals you receive.
In particular I mean TV.
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/
I heard there used to be a radio license as well!
It's comical to think they actually spend money going door to door in a fancy truck looking for unlicensed TVs. Heaven forbid you might actually privately and unobtrusively interpret the radio signals passing through your body for free!
Sounds like the U.K. government thinks it owns the spectrum outright instead of treating it as public property to be arbitrated.
I picked up one of these low power FM transmitters for my Nomad Jukebox for use in a Very Long road trip. While mid-range sound was OK, highs and lows were virtually non-existant. (Luckilly, I also brought along a lot of CDs, so I didn't loose it somewhere out on I-10.)
Any suggestions for brands/models which yield signals with good sound quality?
With this kind of attitude towards change ( delegation VS direct action ), no GNU nor Linux would exist, and these are actually rather trivial examples globally speaking. Representation isn't worth shit the day people embody change by their own actions. This ain't chaos, it's responsability.
you get 2 commercial free and 4 commercial stations for 190 (pounds? dollars?) a year and we get ~30 commercial free and ~100 commercial for $300-$400 a year.
I bought an iTrip for use in my 2000 VW Golf GLS (no Raintronic, so no weird coating on the windshield). It doesn't work. It never has. The car's stereo can't pick it up, even if I hold the iPod up through the open sunroof so the whip antenna on the back of the car can see it directly without the sheet metal of the car in the way. I have a European radio retrofitted into the car but that should have no effect as the only difference in the FM band is that it will try to tune to even-numbered frequencies as well as odd ones. (Too bad transmitters won't broadcast on those freqs, as I guarantee no regular commercial station in the US will be licensed for an even numbered frequency.)
Anyone want to buy it? Seriously. I want to get rid of the thing. My solution is going to be hardwiring an adapter to the car's CD changer plug and adding a switch that lets me toggle between the CD changer (I got one used off another VW owner, cheap) and the RCA inputs.
And the other FM transmitter I have, a Belkin TuneCast, doesn't work either -- if a radio broadcast so much 'looks' at it crosseyed, it's static hell.
Low-power FM transmission is, in my experience, a joke and a marketing tool. It ranges from nonexistent to having more static than an interplanetary broadcast from Martians.
i am a soviet space shuttle
Can you imagine broadcasting your entire MP3 collection throughout your entire college dorm building for everyone to hear. Every student could have their own radio station that could only be picked up in the dorm. Why bother downloading the songs when you could actually just tune in to somebody elses ipod broadcast. Don't tell the RIAA.
This begs for a reiteration of Slashdot policy on the disclosure to governments of the identity information of criminals, and the policy on reporting to the authorities evidence necessary for law enforcement.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
The inclusion of the mention of 1949 just drips with condescension, like spectrum management is some statist anachronism. Oh, those Evil Governments with laws almost as old as my Dad!
And if there were only a single FM frequency, then we'd all be screwed. However, there are actually 100 possible FM stations. So, if the iTrip device reaches 30 apartments in your building, then we can have 3 people in each unit all using iTrips on different frequencies before this becomes a problem.
This is allowed in the US, and from what I can tell people love their iTrips, and frequency collision doesn't seem to be a problem currently. One could certainly predict the collision rate based on transmitter power, density of users, and available spectrum. I think there's more than enough spectrum to allow, say, a 50 foot transmitter for such devices.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
"The BBC is not a government department. There is no Minister for the BBC."
I guess that means the U.S. (which keeps its ministers out of govenment and in church....separation of church and state and all that) has no government, since no government department is headed by a minister.
The lengths you go to to deny that a part of government is a part of government.
"The BBC is separate from government by issue of it's Royal Charter."
Oh. I see. The British government does not control it, the Crown does instead!
"If you think they're government lapdogs, speak to Alistair Campbell.
The government media in the United States (NPR and PBS) dumps on G W Bush all the time.
If I only had mod points...
Combine a low power FM transmitter like the ITrip or IRock with a MouseCaster(FM radio reciever inside a PS2 mouse, and comes with software that can record FM) and behold, instant peer-to-peer shareing via devices.
I played with them as a kid, and they still sell them today. They have a range of 200-300ft out of the box (further when I added uhh... modifications...) and could be picked up by an FM radio. As I recall, the ones I bought from Tandy used to interfere with Radio 1. That's far further than the iTrip's range.
Woohoo! The unitied states isn't country where short sighted idiotic laws are passed!
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
"BTW, your TV isn't free. Advertising costs money, you pay for it when you buy the products."
Only if you choose to. I have fun watching NBA games with no intention of getting "obey your thirst" Squirt (or is that Sprite?) or some $110 pair of sneakers.
Reminds me of the Sealab 2021 where Murphy gets bored and decides to run a radio station - Sealab is consequently destroyed by the FCC's battleships.
Take that, fignuts!
The banner at the top of this page is all "OSXish" with grey horizontal lines...seems to be the only place on slashdot I can find with this banner. It looks much better than the usual banner....what's up?
This is unusual.
I'm not sure of the laws in practice here (perhaps I should have RTFA) but I do know that some short-range FM transmitters are allowed in the UK, depending on power and frequency. It is of course illegal to transmit anywhere in the FM broadcast band (87.5-108MHZ) and this seems to be where this iTrip is broadcasting. However it's power is such that it can only transmit 30ft, which I thought was legal in the UK, I mean the signal from this thing is not going to leave your house, and we've been able to buy FM hi-fi senders in the UK for years now (though mostly through mail order and thus probably not legally).
This law is not heavilly enforced, and I believe that it's outdated. The law should be changed to allow domestic transmissions of a certain power, though this will be difficult to do since what happens if you drive up the highway with your iTrip or take it to work, you're bound to interfere with what someone's listening to. Perhaps a domestic FM frequency at the top or bottom of the commercial broadcast band could be reserved for such devices, provided they do not exceed a certain power level. This would be a great solution to the problem and would allow a flood of currently pointlessly illegal devices to enter the market.
This will solve the interference problem, as well as give much better sound quality. Also it will allow easier hook-up of other equipment, like much less wiring to install carkits, voice-over for navigation systems, etc.
The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
Actually that's not true. There aren't 100 possible stations. The FM band is almost full as it is, since you have to put your station on a slightly different frequency in different parts of the country if your station is nationwide. This is to prevent cross-modulation or (interference as the carriers from two different transmission stations on the same frequency overlap when you're situated between them). This is why some stations say that they're on a frequency RANGE and not an absolute frequency (radio 4 is on 92-95MHz).
Also since the FM band is divided up into individual possible stations every 0.5MHz, there's actually only 41 possible stations (the band is 87.5 - 108 MHz).
Yes and so is RS232 but both are useful to interface to legacy equipment. I.e. how otherwise can you get a signal to a car stereo that has no input jacks available?
How difficult would it be to amend this law to allow short range (<10m?) FM Transmiters or transmition on a specific frequency? Scanning through the FM radio spectrum most of it seems to be just plain static.
Does this law also apply to short range AM transmitters?
Lets start a petition...
Imagine all the fun I could have by broadcasting to a station my neighbors were listening to!
... moron .. Go get a girlfriend.
It would be the best time I ever had in my life! Loads of fun.
- Voxel
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
I find it AMAZING that you have to pay for a license for an object which PASSIVELY receives broadcasts... I might understand a tax when you BUY the set, but a licence? It's simply dumbfounding to me.
"We have reason to believe that you have unlicensed technology in your home. If you have nothing to hide, you won't mind us coming in to take a look around." What the hell?
I'd assume 190 units of some superpower's currency is worth about 116 pounds sterling. Dollars? Euros?
So I go check xe.com's converter, and 116 GBP is in fact close to 190 USD.
Back in the early '80s, AIWA used to have a little FM trasmitter that plugged into their walkmen, and you used FM radio headphones to listen to it.
I don't recall the UK having a problem with people using them.
Could they set a precedent?
Max.
Max.
I remember once reading a book on basic electronics which had plans for a simple radio transmitter. It included a disclaimer that suggested that by linking the aerial of the transmitter to the aerial of the reciver you could avoid violating the regulations.
I know it seems overly simplistic, but would it get you off the hook?
I think this is an excellent pun, and deserves to be congratulated.
Slashdot entertains. Windows pays the mortgage.
" The capitalist-anarchists call themselves "Libertarians" in the States"
/. than in the general public, because most people are affluent and selfish"
The "capitalist" part is redundant: in the most anarchistic system imaginable, you have capitalism (since capitalism is a result of economic freedom).
There is a wing that calls themselves "anarchists" on the left, that spends most of its time outlining how government should take a much greater roll in bossing people around. These are the "totalitarian anarchists".
"It's more common on
It has nothing to do with selfishness on the part of the libertarian. It has to do with the realizations of the dangers of government power.
I know they're aiming it for the iPod market, but it really hurt them to list some basic compatibilities? I'm not going to buy in iPod just to use this thing, so all they're doing is cutting themselves off from any potential sales.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
A better headline for this article would be "Low-power FM Transmitters Still Banned in UK". Nothing new here.
As for the atory submitter's comment:
"Guess that makes me an outlaw, because you'll have to pry my iTrip from my cold, dead hands."
If you're willing to lose your life over a mere techno-gadget, I worry about you. But then again, this is Slashdot...
http://www.aerorfi.org/?page=audio_samples.html
Listen to Live FM Radio
Hi retard, pissed your knickers again? It'll be back to the home with you.
To quote from the BBC website:
"The BBC is run in the interests of its viewers and listeners. Twelve governors act as trustees of the public interest and regulate the BBC. They are appointed by the Queen on advice from ministers.
The BBC's governors safeguard its independence, set its objectives and monitor its performance. They are accountable to its licence payers and Parliament, and publish an Annual Report assessing the BBC's performance against objectives.
Day-to-day BBC operations are run by 16 divisions. Their directors report to the director-general, forming the Executive Committee. It answers to the Board of Governors."
If anyone wants proof that the BBC is not controlled by the UK government, they need look no further than here.
Instead of my usual rants about pretentious non-tv owners, now I just refer people here:
v ision.html
Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television
http://www.theonion.com/onion3604/doesnt_own_tele
i just bought one! i live in alaska and no one cares :)
I'd like to have an el-cheapo car stereo with a "line-in" function and an AM/FM radio. Why fool with klunky low power radios and cassette adapters? It's not like the interface is bulky or expensive -- look at cheap sound cards.
If anyone has seen something like this, please let me know.
GF
Lots of petrified grits
Here in NZ we seem to be somewhere between the UK and the US (as in many other things).
The top and bottom 1 MHz of the FM band is reserved for unlicensed transmission with an effective radiated power of less than 300 mW. So as long as you tune your iTrip to 88 - 89 MHz or 107 - 108 MHz you're fine.
I've been wondering about getting an iTrip once the version for the new model iPod is available (Apple changed the connectors on the top...), but my car's radio.casette has a line-in (marked "CD") on the front panel anyway, and that's better quality.
So, you fellows in the UK also have laws which restrict narcotics? How well is that working at keeping those chemicals off the street market?
"See that boat over there? It's rebroadcasting major league baseball with implied oral consent... Not express written consent!"
"Like the lengths you go to deny the church and state are linked when most of GWBs campaign funds are form the Christian Right?"
The "Christian Right" is largely shibboloth made by people of other religions on the left. In any case, only a small amount of his campaign funds come from there.
In any case, even if you were right, name the church that is linked to the State. Name it.
You can't. The church and state are not linked.
" The quality is pretty good"
Actually, the quality is *abysmal*, but then, now I understand why people think AAC/MP3/WMP tunes at 128kb "sound just like the CD".
"This is important, because if just anybody set up shop, soon the radio waves would be a mess of people just putting stuff out, and nobody could hear the station they wanted too - just the one with the biggest pen- ah, broadcast antennae."
Reality just came crashing through and smack you in the face like a dead mackrel.
The united states with a population significantly higher than England allows the use of these transmitters without license and no chaos (0) (zero) (nothing) (nada) (not a bit) (swoosh!) results.
So at this point, its government's desire to control more than any real reason.
There are good puns?
Charles K. Clarkson
Many people truly want to help. Unfortunately, many people truly suck at it.
First of all, I'm Canadian.
Second, I am not suggesting that the BBC is owned by the government.
I want to know where the TV-licensing money goes. To the BBC (and other channels), right?
Therefore, the BBC is getting funding from the government. Is there something I don't understand?
I have an iRock, which works pretty well, but sucks down the batteries, and I liked the look of the iTrip as well as it's ability to tune any station.
In reality, the iTrip rarely works, and having the radio stations on my iPod ends up sucking as I like to have my song list on random, so now I have 50 or more songs that periodically play a few beeps.
Overall, the iRock works far better, and is worth having to replace the batteries every 15-20 hours or use rechargeables.
First of all, I'm Canadian.
Apologies. Your accent sounds the same on my monitor ;-)
The license is paid to 'TV Licensing' a part of the BBC
The BBC has a charter guaranteeing its independence from government which is reviewed every 15? years or so
Given that the maximum possible term a government can serve is 5 years it's quite hard to for a political party (and they've had serious run-ins with all 3 main parties) to bear pressure onto the BBC
--
This sig is inoffensive.
Herd of sheep.
Sure I've heard of sheep!
No, no, no, sheep herd!
What the hell do I care what a sheep herd?