Slashdot Mirror
Mandrake Linux 9.2, Adware Version
thedarb writes "Mandrake has decided to sell ads to be seen during installation, web browsing and in screen savers. This all comes in their upcoming 9.2 release. Seven G's and you could put your face in their installer." Update: 09/12 18:07 GMT by M : Mandrake has a page about the ads.
I would hate to have to relive those all of those "You can enlarge your penis!!" moments, or once again be haunted by "Britney XXX HOT and young CAUGHT J-Lo action action!!".
Now, that's not to say that I would be apprehensive towards "Jenna" advertisements. Those always bring a smile to my face.
One of the reasons I use Linux is to avoid ads and spyware. Now if I choose to use Mandrake, I can only avoid spyware... but for how long? I think I'll just stick to Slack, like I have for the past few years.
Happy New Year, it's 1984!
"Seven G's and you could put your face in their installer."
Collectively I'm sure we could scrape together $7K to have the goatse.cx guy in all his glory on this..
Trolling is a art,
Pretty soon your company will have subsidized corporate uniforms. IT gurus will of course get more well known advertisers and will have NASCAR like uniforms and sticker studded PCs. -Crolis
However, I can see the many of Slashdot crowd crying over this intrusion of commercialism, but this seems like a reasonable way to try and recoup the costs of developing and distributing Linux products.
This keeps Linux "Free as in Beer" and "Free as in speech" at the same time. And what is wrong with that?
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
that advertisements cant run a website buisness? the whole dot com thing didnt teach any lessons, huh?
it would be funny to see ads for microsoft software on there tho...
Now, if I can't modify it to remove the adverts, and re-upload this version under a new name, that's a different issue.
I appear to have a blog. Odd.
This is bad news for Mandrake. Ad revenues are spotty at best according to people that I know who rely on them for their websites. What next? Back doors so advertizers can see where we surf?
It's a great dist but I'd hate to see it become the Juno/Netzero of dists.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
Won't this only work until someone recompiles any and all apps that have the ads in them? How long before packages appear with advertisement-less binaries?
I worry that opensource software will become advertiser supported. I don't think its likely though. It is however an excellent revenue stream. It is advertising that keeps media of virtually all types so inexpensive to consume. The best thing is, the software is opensource. We can just remove the ads.
Niiice.... I used to like Mandrake. Good thing I recently discovered SuSE. Guys, if you're looking to become an ex-Mandrake user after this, SuSE rocks. Mandrake's coolness is in its easy configuration, and YaST has that covered.
They think this is gonna help keep the doors open, but I think they just drove the last nail into their own coffin.
why I'll be using SuSE or Red Hat from now on. You had to know there were problems with the company's financials when they took the stock information off their main page (that and the stock price had dropped below $4.00)
There might be other slow-loading free software projects that could benefit from this, too, such as KDE or Mozilla. As long as the ads are for techie/computer stuff that's interesting I'm cool with it.
I never vote for anyone. I always vote against.
-- W.C. Fields
Ads in Open Source Linux installers?!?! What has the world come to!
Oh yeah... money.
Mandrake used to be such a fine distro, but this will *definately* make me switch. As a student I can't afford following every release, but still like to keep up with the developments. Adware is *not* the way to go. One of the greatest things about having a Linux desktop is using programs without the annoyance of ads, i.e.: I use Licq for my ICQ messaging, which is 100% ad-free. On the Windows platform there's the official ICQ client, which is filled with crap!
Mandrake: don't go the Microsoft way.
will have "updates" available I'm sure.
:-P
Ads in the installer, I'll abide that. But the webbrowser?
that being said, I don't run Mandrake anymore. Maybe with version 10, who knows.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
It's unfortunate it's coming to this, I wonder if they could have done something different in the beginning; not grown too fast or something. They started very strong, I even used Mdk for some time back in the early days, but grew tired of the constant "why aren't you a member?" attitude of Deno. Now it looks like they want to take over your screensaver, browser homepage, etc in the name of revenue. This feels much like Opera, which always struck me as some strange marriage of freedom and commercialism. Of course the irony is when I left Mdk for Slackware, I actually started buying Slack distro cds, not because I was shamed into it, but just because it felt 'right'.
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
Why are we all assuming this announcement is real. This was simply a posting by an anonymous coward in a discussion group.
So now I can watch ads while never being able to get my sound card to work.
How will it look to the average customer if free software has to resort to ads to make it profitable?
I worry that this will make free software seem like a less viable alternative to more expensive products.
So ... Why dont we pay them to advertise the goatse man, he deserves the fame after all.
If the "commercial" version, ie; the version that you pay cash money for has ads, then screw 'em.
But if you're getting it for free, big deal. It's not like I sit and gawk at the installation screen anyways, I just get it started and then find something else to do for a half hour or so.
Believe it or not, Free isn't all that great of a business model. It's shocking, I know.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
You ad can appear on the Default page which is seen by every user when any browser included in the product is launched.
How exactly does an official release get through with a typo like that??
Struggling company
/. and arstechnica): If me looking at an ad for a moment (actually, I ignore them, but they count ad-load, right?) helps them pay for the sites that I use, then I don't mind at all unless they're purveyors of the evil popup(). If seeing a few ads upon installation allows them to pay for full-time Linux developers who are releasing their software to the community, then it's a small "inconvenience" to pay for so-called greater good.
Needs revenue badly
Sells out to the man
More seriously, while I might have issues with ads in my screensaver, I don't see any problems with seeing ads upon installation. The way I look at it is the way I look at not blocking ads on my favorite websites (like
I know, there's a giant anti-market bunch out there that are going to jump up and down and scream about how Linux isn't about making money or whatnot, but frankly, I like the idea of someone getting paid to do something they love (work developing Linux and Linux applications) with a somewhat benign method of securing funding. Now, the day they start installing spyware...
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
"Yes, we'd like to incorporate our Visual Studio Free Demo campaign in your installer... yes, the one we run on Slashdot! How'd you notice it! Isn't it persuasive? $7,000? The check's in the mail! Thanks for your business."
This space for rent.
..we hardly knew thee.
Mandrake is considered the best/most common distro for beginners, right? Most people with any degree of computer literacy can tell you what adware is (good luck finding anyone who doesn't mind it, though). Wouldn't this simply turn the average user curious about Linux off from Mandrake and more into Lindows or any other alternative geared toward migrating Windows users? Or, even worse, possibly turn them off from switching altogether if they don't know there are any alternatives?
I don't see a problem with this as long as the ads only pop up during the install, and don't wait for you to hit enter before proceeding.
I don't see it as any more annoying than the "Windows will make everything you do more fun" message that they used to put on the Windows install. Actually, that message always cracked me up, so I can't really count it as annoying.
If they start taking money to install a folder on the desktop full of "special offers from our partners" then it might cross a line.
For me, all the ads would end up coming across as ads for Debian, regardless of what they said or who paid for them.
Please pay SCO $699 before using this Operating System.
Pricing
:
Advertising:
- Installation advertising (for every Mandrake Linux 9.2 version) + bookmarks (for every Mandrake Linux 9.2 version): $ 7,000
- Screen saver advertising (only for the 9.2 download version): $ 10,000
- Installation advertising + bookmarks + screen saver advertising: $ 15,000
Browser Default Page
A single message appears for two months (from October 10th to December 10th): $ 7,500
Three different messages (or a single one) appear for 6 months and change every two months (from October 10th to December 10th, December 10th to February 10th and February 10th to April 10th): $ 15,000
Installation advertising + bookmarks + screen saver advertising (download version only) + 6 months visibility on default page: $ 24,000
Makes me wonder how difficult it would be to remove all the adware for a Linux expert ??
Wait... I always recommend Slackware. Nothing will change.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
While I feel this is the wrong move, why can't they have it both ways?
Dell/HP/Everyoneelseitseems sells you a PC that includes preloaded "sales" material such as AOL/MSN.
Will it cut back on their "boxed" sales? Prob so, but thats their call
---"What did I say that sounded like 'Tell me about your day?'"---
Ads, if that can bring them revenu thats good with me, remember the code is still open if you want to remove the ads and all this stuff just do it and stop complain about it!
Stay out of his way, folks. He don't give a shit. He's so bad ass to stand up to the mods like that. I only hope his act of bravery and courage will encourage others to not give a shit as well.
"It is not too late! Call your local MS dealer now, and get windows today"
... and I am not even going to touch the sco-stuff:)
I wonder how many MS ads will pop up in this version? Silly question??? Hey, MS advertises everywhere! They have had a presence at Linux shows before so why stop there?
Imagine opening up KOffice or something like it and you get a pop-up from MS saying "aren't you sure you wouldn't rather be using MS Office on Windows XP?" Laugh all you want, but don't put it past MS to do something like this.
No trees were harmed in the composition of this; however, numerous electrons were inconvenienced.
.... they already sold a bulk of their ads to MS and SCO. :)
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
When does Lavasoft release there Adware for Mandrake Linux?
Follow this link. ;p I will reserve my feelings on this.
To see the procing and information about this new advertising
If it weren't for this recession thang me and my buddies would chip in for a Goatse add ;)
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
I wonder if SCO will buy an ad to remind people to send in their $699
No doubt Microsoft will try to buy some of the ads. "Enlarge your penis with Windows Longhorn."
On the bright side, unless the ad supported programs have never been GPL'd you can just modify the source to take them out.
Sux to use the version of linux...at least Microsoft does not sell adds in their install...as of yet ;)
The phrases "This is do-able" and "..the goatse.cx guy in all his glory.." sit uneasily together in my mind...
...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
How will it look to the average customer if free software has to resort to ads to make it profitable?
Yeah, go ahead.... Read that sentence again and I hope you won't have to read the rest of this post.
Still, don't get it? Try one more time...
hmmm...
Okay, fine, let me explain-
Something that is FREE, has to resort to SOMETHING to make it PROFITABLE!!!!!
Now, if the only concern is distribution, then you can give things away all day long. You can even be damn good at it. But, you want to be PROFITABLE??? Well, you hav'ta charge for SOMETHING.
---"What did I say that sounded like 'Tell me about your day?'"---
Of course this will be unpopular, but it's not exactly a bad idea.
How many Mandrake installations are the free download? They make no money of those, this way they can make some money on the free download installations also. This is, imho, better than only offering the older version for free download, this way you can have the latest always!
It's just a few ads to ensure you can still get it all for free.
Let's just hope they don't just allow any idiot to advertise.
NetNewsWire into Yojimbo!
As much as we like Open Source and our Linux distros, they need to get their money from somewhere.
Let's face it, of all people actually using these distros only a FRACTION of them have actually purchased the packaged software/support or have donated money to them.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
I'd suspect that this is less about advertising revenue and more about keeping ppl who don't subscribe from downloading Mandrake from their servers.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
Put some money together and put an Slackware Banner on their installer ... that would be nice ...
...
Another Good Think would be to put a fake error messge:
"oops. This distro is Really *Broken* and it just Hang Up During Install, If you reboot ASAP you may still have a chance to recover your partition table."
jejej, what people do for some money
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
I suspect that 9.2 will be 100% free as well. In such an event, "spyware" is simply *NOT* possible on the distro.
As for the ads .... lets just hope MDK comes to its senses :^)
Sunny Dubey
I never liked Mandrake anyway but now they give me a strong argument against their company!
The reason why we are using Linux is the Free feeling. Freedom of choice, freedom from ads, freedom from spyware... And yes! FREE BEER!
Now Mandrake is trying to reverse all that? So what's next? Proprietary software?
If Mandrake or any Company wants to put some adds in their installer, that's fine by me! But No Way someone can force me to see an add everytime I browse or everytime there is a screensaver!
Imagine a business environment right after lunch break! Screensavers everywhere and adds all over the place! NO WAY!
and btw, NO I'm not willing to pay more so that they can remove the ads! Linux WAS, IS, and MUST REMAIN Free! Free as of spirit and Free as of beer!
-- Free Kevin (Buy one get one Kevin for FREE!)
I totally agree with your point. If that's what they need to do to keep in business, then why not throw a few adds in the FREE DOWNLOADABLE version of Mandrake, and keep the purchased "official" product add-free. Mandrake is a good starting point for converts from Windows. :-D
TV/Radio is largely supported by adds, but people aren't boycotting that - although if Mandrake starts showing adds every 15 minutes, I'll look elsewhere
Most of the stuff sounds pretty easy to change anyway, web browser default startup page and bookmarks, etc. ANd come on - how often do you INSTALL your OS (well with windows - at least 1x per year)..
..........FULL STOP.
Mod this up, it isn't like you can't put a stop to the ads.
This guy is way out there
Knoppix.
One cd dowload.
Install it to hard disk.
Instant, easy, all hardware found install of debian.
More applications than any french distro, and upgrades to newer releases are a command line away, instead of the utter ridiculous stupidity of blowing away and re-installing a newer release.
And don't mention upgrades instead of fresh installs with new major releases. Google the other major distro archives if you have any doubts whether you have to re-install or not.
I can just imagine the Microsoft sponsored splash screen on the Mandrake installer: "Welcome to Mandrake Linux installer! Your life would be much easier if you were currently installing Windows XP Professional!"
don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but I wonder if you can still do a kickstart installation...that way, you don't even SEE the ads, or atleast don't have to stick around for them to hit NEXT :)
I'm going to go out on a limb and be the nay-sayer here.
Since it's a distribution nobody wants, they have to resort to displaying advertisements in order to generate revenue. So that must mean there aren't a lot of people installing Mandrake, and therefore a very small number of eyeballs affixed to those advertisements. So why would anyone want to spend $7000 on one?
This is not a troll, but I'm sure some random Mandrake fan with mod points is going to treat it as one. Mandrake simply doesn't have any significant way to differentiate their distribution anymore, and unlike RH & SusE they don't have a support business to generate the real bucks. The realities of the marketplace are dictating that this company doesn't have what it takes to continue to exist. Perhaps the advertising scheme is a little bit more noble than their previous "give us money as if we were a charity" game, but both seem like desparation moves when you look at them from a business perspective.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
He wanted to get enough money to buy the box seat right in back of home plate, and fill it with all sorts of freaks, transvestites, dwarfs, Beetlejuice, and hideously ugly people. That way you would see these people everytime they showed a guy at bat. I still laugh everytime I think of it.
..........FULL STOP.
Well, with MandrakeSoft's financial situation in mind it's this alternative or no distro at all. If more people signed up for the MandrakeClub maybe it wouldn't have come to this.
Ciryon
Okay, this is a backdoor that has exploit potential written all over it.
Have any details been released as to the ad-delivery mechanisims?
See the notice on the Mandrake site.
I'm a Mandrake user and club member, and I don't like it. It doesn't seem likely to increase revenue sufficiently to warrant upsetting their faithful user base. It "cheapens" the distro in my mind, even though I know the underlying open source code isn't any different.
Most people who know how to download and burn the ISOs are probably savvy enough to remove the ads, though; I'll reserve final judgement until I see how invasive the ads appear to be. As others have pointed out, Mandrake has kept the ISOs available for free by not polluting the distro with commercial/non-free software, which is to their credit.
- Leo
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
Anyone read "Infinite Jest"? In the future, North America allows sponsorship of the name of the year, leading to the subj. title, and "Year of the Trial Size Dove Bar".
A good read for people interested in ideas like the parent poster's (and with a lot of time to spare).
It's all part of a microsoft conspiracy!
This appears to be "Free as in Annoying," to coin a phrase...
sic transit gloria mundi
Jeez, when I compiled something on my former Redhat or Mandrake boxes, I got these advertisements saying I needed this or that by some company called RPM? Now I get all these crazy micro advertisements when I try and install stuff on my Slackware box...some products called gcc automake and "checking for"? I have to go out and buy this stuff.
Granted it's better than the zip company ads or buy this MS product commercials I saw back when I was installing Windows software.
Now back to the reality ans seriousness. Advertisements are all right. I think it's not necessarily in following with the spirit of the Linux community. But it is a valid business practice. I mean, we all had the choice not to use windows, we have the choice not to use Mandrake too. Just like Kazaa vs. Kazaalite.
non sig o' the day - Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.
Please cancel my MandrakeClub membership, effective immediately.
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Darl McBride will buy a spot so he can point at you all Uncle Sam-esque with the words "Say no to Linux" over his head
This is a bad example of how to treat your paying customers. As a Mandrake club member I find it quite strange to hear about theses changes from their partner program area of their web page. A little announcement and explanation to their customers would have helped, but it's too late for that, now. The damage is done.
Stopping my anger for a moment, I have to admit that non-club download versions stuffed with advertisement is definitely not unfair.
Back to the previous blood preasure level though, I wonder why I have to deal with advertising as a paying user. Can somebody explain that? That is a hidden increase in the price tag to me.
This post is being written under Mandrake 9.1, but frankly I've been thinking about switching away for a while now. Mandrake never got their auto-update service working right, and they're down to about a half dozen mirrors, so I'm thinking I might go for Red Hat instead. Do they support Reiser FS yet?
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Windows users seem more prepared to accept this kind of thing (witness the adverts in Messenger, invasive programs like RealOne, lack of pop-up blocking in IE).
I doubt your average Linux distro user (even a Mandrake user) is going to put up with this. Adverts during the install process I could just about stomach; after all, Mandrake has to make money somehow. But a major advantage of using Linux is that no one but you owns your desktop - this removes that advantage.
never having witnessed a mandrake install (tigerlily's laptop works flawlessly), i have to ask - is the mandrake install a non-interactive process? i would not have to answer any questions at all?
my experience is tainted by debian - the only distribution that wrote even half reasonable documentation for installing onto oldworld powermacs. heck, when they HAVE an installation process for oldworld powermacs, i can forgive them a clumsy installation process that needs a lot of hand holding. my machine always needed a lot of handholding anyways. eleven architectures. take that, micros^H inte^H [insert monopolist here] !
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
This is only the beginning guys. Adware first and spyware next.
At least, we'll get Open Source spyware projects on SourceForge.
Linux users: welcome to the Windows world.
I have no problem with Mandrakesoft trying to make a few bucks selling some ads, but this seems kind of silly. Think about it. Advertisements during install ... how many times do you install your OS? Hopefully just once. Ads during screen savers? The purpose of a screen saver is to prolong the life of your monitor during periods of non use. If your not using your computer, then why would you sit there and watch the ads?
Since I just signed up for Mandrake Club, I damn well better be able to get a non-ad version. I already gave them way more money than they would get out of advertising to me.
If there'e no ad free version for Club members, I'll probably take a look at LibraNet, I've heard it's pretty incredible.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
I don't think this sounds right, I'm not against them making money. However I do feel that if they want to make money off the software perhaps they should concider a comercial only version with their extra features or something along the lines of Red Hat since they are based off that distro really.
I don't mind paying for Mandrake. I've got boxed sets since 6.0. The download version was a great way to show it off and give it out to people. Now I'm a little aprehensive in doing that since it will have advertisements in it come version 9.2.
I feel that company that does Mandrake might be living beyond their means in some regards. Seeing the club and now this really makes me wonder. That really doesn't make me feel good cause it's a good distro and I've enjoyed it. I just feel this is a wrong turn.
I'll also admit my hate for online advertising is playing a major role in my feelings on this. Spam, popups, etc have seriously soured my opinion of ads these days and I know this won't effect me if I buy a copy, but I won't have the same appreciation for Mandrake as did before I heard this.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
So when I install mandrake will I see an ad telling me how great C# and windows xp is?
Thank you for choosing mandrake. And now an ad from our sponsor...Windows XP offers the latest functionality and performance without any ads! BUY NOW!
Oh that's just great.
Good thing I use debian.
During the install...I left the room to watch TV.
For web browsing...I installed Opera.
The screensaver...I turned it off. Monitors no longer need screensavers (but grandparents who use Win98 love them!)
I don't see a problem here.
Who here actually sits in front of the PC and watches the installation? I for one just get it started and after I select my packages to install I go off and other things, like read a magazine or watch TV. Then after a half-hour TV show I go in and check on the installation process and swap the CDs then go back and do other stuff away from the computer.
That was a very insightful comment!
Who was the fucking turd burgling fudge packing man syrup guzzling homosexual who modded that down?
YOU FUCKING SUCK. MOD MY BALLS BITCH.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with advertisements being inserted into the installation procedure. Its not like they can force you to watch them anyway fer Chrissakes. Although you might want to watch to learn which companies are supporting the distribution, as we DO want to encourage sponsorship of open source, Don't we? OSS companies need successful revenue models, or they will cease to exist. I think I can say pretty definately that that would be a Bad Thing(tm).
Be a fucking man and use a real distro.
Either pay for Redhat or Suse, or learn who to use Linux and get Slack or Debian.
Mandrake is a distro for silly newbs.
thats just where it starts, don't let the ads in at all!
Just what I want to do as a business, pay $7,000 to have an ad of mine seen by people too cheap to purchase an OS/Software...
I could hang out at the local coffee shop and drink coffee and hand out business cards for less. Most of the people there at 10:30 am have no job anyways.
POSTERS OF SLASHDOT UNITE!
Overthrow the crack smoking hand of 13 year dorks with moderator points!
Really.
"Following up on a story appearing this morning at DesktopLinux.com about MandrakeSoft selling ads in their free download version of Mandrake Linux, I contacted Gael Duval at MandrakeSoft for more detail on the new advertising/revenue source.
Duval pointed out that advertising in Mandrake Linux is not really a new thing. There have been ads for Mandrake Linux, MandrakeSoft products, and for free software projects in the installation all along. They introduced paid advertising in the Safari Service in Mandrake Linux 9.l. Duval says that in version 9.2 they are just advancing that concept a little further.
Duval said the boxed versions of Mandrake 9.2 will not include any paid ads, but that the free download edition (the choice of 90% of Mandrake users) "will now include several additional ads, in the bookmarks and in the screensavers." He noted there will be no annoying pop-up ads.
He added that most Mandrake users want to see them continue to operate in the spirit of free software while at the same time being successful as a business. These new ads, Duval said, are one way that MandrakeSoft tries "to solve this equation."
More details on the advertising, including pricing, is available on the MandrakeSoft web site.
See Joe Barr's article.
I think it's cool. Mandrake needs the money, and this is the sanest and cleanest way of doing it. I'm a silver member of Mandrake, and even though I download mandrake from the 'net, I'm perfectly fine with this development. BTW RC2 is out, and it rocks!
If we could get some money together, I'd throw in to get the star wars kid paradies to play during the install. Mandrake is one of the best options for people looking to not go a-wall, overkill w/a linux distro (i'm talking red hat and all the strange dependencies). I welcome them putting ads in the installer. You don't have to sit there while it copies over a gig of packages, it helps mandrake, and supports an overall cause where the only thing you're losing out on is seeing think geek ads instead of ads like "Mandrake Store: Buy new mandrake stuff for your system". They have ads in there already, so it shouldn't bother anyone that there are going to be non-Mandrake ones in there now.
Since Linux is GPL'ed, does that mean that one person could buy the boxed (and ad-free) version, and legally distribute it via P2P or bittorrent?
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising
this is nothing to worry about and could be a great source of revenue for Mandrakesoft.
to replace LinuxThreads?
Their website had no info on the subject.
Dear Mandrake
I would be very interested in advertising. Please contact me.
Daryl McBride
how long until
I use SuSE.
1. Non-obtrusive ads during the installation process are nothing new. While it's installing all your thousands of packages, RedHat's installer (since the 7.x series, I think) displays ads for RedHat products and services as well as RedHat and Linux trivia. This is just the first time somebody's displayed third-party ads during installation.
2. Don't like their default screensaver? It's easy to change, it's not like you'll have to hack xscreensaver source or anything. Don't like their default homepage because it says "Welcome to Mandrake Linux, here are some products you may be interested in" instead of "Welcome to Mandrake Linux"? Change it. No big deal.
It's not like there is any software here which has been hacked so it needs to be displaying ads in order to work, which is what adware is. Furthermore, I'm sure Mandrake will be judicious in their selection of ads to display (you won't see X10 ads in Mandrake anytime soon, probably will see ads for co-lo's, linux training and certification programs, Oracle, etc).
Disclaimer: I am not generally a Mandrake user or fan (I've actually only used Redhat and Slack for any major amount of time), I'm just sick of the childish knee-jerk responses here.
It's their choice over all. If you don't like it-don't use it. They need to make money some how and this is what they came up with. And if I'm not wrong it is their right to do so. With all of this I stopped using MDK and don't plan on going back so I could care less. I can understand the hard-core MDK users being a bit pissed but everyone else?
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
1st Mandrake is DEAD! troll -5
Mandrake is DEAD!
fsck you, i refuse to use your products anymore, you can stick your adware/spyware Linux distro up your A$$, Slackware & Redhat are replacing all my servers & Desktops today, before the sun goes down all my mandrake desktops will be reinstalled with another distro!!!
Basically the Mandrake distro rocks. (Well at least 8.2 does --hope 9.2 continues that.) People are not paying for Mandrake even though they are getting good value.
If the ads keep Mandrake healthy enough to continue their distribution, but can be changed, who really cares?
If this really bothers you, why not go and buy the boxed set and really help them out.
Mandrake is 100 percent free software. Its a nice mix that is worth something. The way I see it, you can either build your own distro, or support one that you like.
The software may be free, but the work packaging and intergrating it into a distribution is not. We need to pay Mandrake something, or lose Mandrake. Since they are doing fine work, I plan on paying them this time around instead of downloading. --They clearly need more support than they are getting and I get the message.
Keep up the good work guys!
Blogging because I can...
Since it's a distribution nobody wants, they have to resort to displaying advertisements in order to generate revenue. So that must mean there aren't a lot of people installing Mandrake, and therefore a very small number of eyeballs affixed to those advertisements. So why would anyone want to spend $7000 on one?
The one where the suit says "Yes, but how do you make up for it being free?" and the OSS zealot answers "Volume"? There's a difference between being popular and being profitable. If they can get a small amount of revenue from a lot of people through presenting them with ads, that would otherwise have given them nothing, the sum should be decent. Not MS-rich. but enough to stay alive as a distribution.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I don't know what Bill Gates looks like without his glasses, but it's certainly not this.
...modifies the Web Browser configs (perfectly legal under the GPL or whatever other Open Source licence the browser(s) in question are under), removes the ads from the screensaver (by replacing it with something else entierly if need be), removes the ads from the installer (what licence is the installer under?), makes a new ISO and starts spreading it?
Me, personally, I dont mind the ads in the installer (I can always get up and go do something else while it installs, I probobly would anyway).
I want to turn the screensavers off anyhow and set things up to use my monitor power saving.
And as for the web-browser, I wont install the MDK mozilla package, instead prefering to install the package from mozlla.org (which is more than likely newer than whatever version mandrake sees fit to include)
I'm glad I switched to Gentoo a few months ago! What with RedHat trying hard to charge for the up2date service, and now this with Mandrake.
will a few ads kill you? Mandrake needs the money, and i know that many people sit in front of the computer while installing it, looking at nothing, only a progress bar. They could even be interactive (flash maybe) like those coooll coooll ads of ABSOLUT .. they are just wonderfull :)
I fuse with Mercer every single day...
SCO & MS (note no hyperlinx, heh heh)
Yeah! Way to stick it to the man. Mentioning their name & not providing a link. That'll teach 'em!
Douchebag.
SCO
MS
Just like the NPR station in my area. They failed to make enough money via pledge drives (NPR equivalent of Mandrake Club), so they started accepting commercial advertising.
First it was "Listener supported radio". Then "Support provided by Lexus of Bellevue, and listeners like you!" Now it's up to 15 seconds at a time of "Supported provided by Lexus of Bellevue. Come and test drive the new RX300. Featuring all new suspension and the roomiest interior in its class. With a 350 horsepower blah blah blah blah..."
I used to listen to NPR when the AM station went to commercial break. Now it's so bad that I do the opposite at times.
If Mandrake opens the door to ads like NPR did, how far will it go?
I am also using the free download version of Opera to post this. It contains ads in a portion of the browser. To stop them from being shown I would have to shell out $. I love Opera, but I am a tight-a$$, so I can live with the ads. If not, I could always pay or switch to another browser. Just like I could always switch to another distro of Linux if I wanted.
Personally, I think this method of trying to recoup the expenses for free download versions is long overdue in the Linux business model. People like me who want to continue to use Mandrake may now have the incentive to drop the paltry(compared to Windows) sum for a CD or DVD version with no ads.
I also think that if you are the type to roll-your-own Mandrake from the sources, you probably know enough to kill the ads features and still use your fave distro. Once again, no problem. Hell, I know a guy here at work who LIVES for any excuse to recompile/update/tweak. I will ask him for help with this when the final 9.2 sources are available. He uses Slack and Gentoo mostly, but if I offer him caffeine and snack-foods I am sure he would do it. :)
Flash is the Herpes of the Internet.
your.opinion >
I've used Mdk for several years now and have recommended it to many people. I joined mandrake club to help development.
Unfortunately it looks like I will not be moving to 9.2.
IMO ads during installation are fine. Bookmarks for advertisers are fine if filed separately from the other bookmarks. Default homepage, screensaver and taskbar advertising are just NOT acceptable.
When trying to get people to adopt Linux the last thing you want to show people is an abundance of advertising.
I wonder what market research was done on this. Maybe it is just a desperation move. It's unfortunate as it will ruin a distro that is well suited to new users. Once trust is lost it will be VERY hard to get it back again.
Oh well, time to look into Debian or maybe SUSE.
but i know nothing about advertising? will people (companies) actually buy this, or what?
I don't want bloody advertising showing on screen savers. Screen savers are bad enough. Why not turn the monitor off instead, or put it in sleep mode. Do you know how much power is wasted by this?
Shame on everyone who has screen savers enabled.
Extra shame on companies which enable them by default, where they know that they will be used by millions of people. Millions of monitors probably left on overnight wasting power.
Shame on debian with gnome which enables it. Shame on gnome if they do the same.
Wasting precious power. Shame, shame, shame.
The lyrics don't make sense.
In the song he shoots a man in Reno (in NV). Why would he be locked up in Folsom (a CA state prison)?
Your post was great. As an independent/punk fan myself, I've definitely seen bands support themselves largely off cheap merch, and I think that sounds like a good model for linux distros to try, at least as a supplement to their normal business.
Damn, I wish I hadn't spent all my mod points bumping goatse.cx posts +1, Informative...uh, I mean...
Rock over London, Rock on Chicago. Wheaties: Breakfast of Champions.
RTFA. The people only put bookmarks in the browser. It's not like that damned marketbrowser stuff that windows has. All it takes is Edit bookmarks/delete, and the bookmark is gone. I do not see linux users having a problem with this, I always remove the default bookmarks from the browser anyway.
1) Mandrake always displayed advertising during installation. The only difference now is that instead of Mandrake ads, it'll have other ads.
2) The screensaver use to show slides of Mandrake clipart. Now it'll show slides of ads.
3) They'll add one link to the advertiser's homepage (seen in browser's toolbar and bookmarks).
4) They'll include ads on the browser's default start page.
These changes appear minor and reasonable. If you don't like it: 1) go read a book when installing mandrake, 2) select your favorite screensaver, 3) delete any and all bookmarks to your heart's content, and 4) change the browser's start page.
I'm guessing a lot of users aren't going to go through the trouble of doing even that. It just doesn't seem that instrusive. And if this is adware, then what does that make Netscape? Netscape IMO is far, far more instrusive.
-- Kircle
It doesn't seem so bad. Links in a browser have been something people who use IE have been doing for years. Almost all companies advertise their other products in their installer so why not sell the space. I don't like the screensaver idea, but I assume it's only in the default which can be turned off.
I do hope, though, that they make available a version without the adds for those of us who subscribe to the mandrake club.
I do security
If you are not able to disable or change your screensaver, please don't use Linux.
Looks like mandrakesoft promotes raping of the environment. By instead putting monitors into sleep mode they are wasting millions of dollars, by wasting precious power.
g /t urn_off_your_monitors_you_environmental_rapists/
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertisin
This could be a great place for personal ads! It would be well worth the $7,000 to have your ad seen by hot chicks every time they install Linux!
(Sarcasm not meant to offend the few amazingly hot women that do use Mandrake.)
Mandrake has traditionally been almost as obsessive as Debian when it comes to Keeping It Free {they do install Pico instead of Nano tho', and there are one or two other forgiveabilities in there.} And I'll certainly grant that MDK is an easy distribution for a newbie to use. You put the disk in, answer some questions, and you end up with an X desktop. Nowhere near as scary as Debian. {Of course, it installs the graphical bit first; if that mucks up, you're shafted}.
..... On my laptop it just pretends to be a disk drive, without me installing any extra software. Same on my Athlon. On another Linux box at work, I just had to do a modprobe usb-storage before plugging it in; that was all. Getting the thing to work under Windows, however, was another matter .....}
At first glance, this advertising does seem to be flying in the face of what Linux is all about.
On the other hand, this could be an excellent way for manufacturers of Linux-friendly hardware to get their products advertised to Linux users; although I have a deep-seated suspicion that Microsoft is paying hardware manufacturers not to mention that their stuff works OK with Linux. {Like my digital camera, which actually is BETTER with Linux than Windows
I really feel a bit both ways about this. Is it the thin end of the wedge?
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
They should consider cutting bandwith cost by making the free distro's available only through bittorrent, specially in the first weeks after launch. Want FTP? Get a membership.
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
pay you to click on ads? The person distributing the plugin would basically give you a portion of what they were making to throw ads and you and paid you click on them. Setup an entire Linux distro to do the same thing.
I would call it the "In Soviet Russia the OS pays YOU" distro. Free is hard to compete with. Paying people to use it? Bill Gates is going to crap his pants if he sees this idea getting out.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
I think that's a very good idea !
First off, what kind of companies de you think are going to advertise their software in a Linux distro ? Companies that propose Linux products, off course ! And making Linux users aware of their existence is a very good thing. Ever tried to find a CAD program for Linux ? Or some other non computer geek-specific program ?
Second, I don't find their choices intrusive at all. During the installation ? Well, why not ? I am very surprised that this annoys anybody at all.
As bookmarks in the browsers ? AFAIK, virtually every brower comes with a handful of bookmarks when you first start it. And its not like you can't delete the ones you are not interested in.
And what about the screensavers ? Well, I know *loads* of people who browse the web for hours just to download nice-looking screensavers from private companies. So you'll have a few preinstalled, that you can turn off with a few mouse-clics if you don't like them.
If we started to get pop-ups all over the place on the desktop, that would be a different story (I'd be up in arms), but it is really not the case.
Third, making and distributing a Linux distro costs money and this is money that they get and that you don't have to pay. Would you prefer to have to pay for their bandwidth every time you download from their server? They have to pay for it, you know. Or that they stop the downloadable version alltogether? Or that only club-members have access to it ? (BTW, this has been proposed many times. Those who support Mandrake get Mandrake, those who don't find by themselves a way to get it).
Fourth, read the f*** announcement ! The ad-screensavers will be in the download-version only. Which is almost sad, see point 2.
Yes, I pay for my distro, and recommend the DVD-powerpack: you have everything you need on *one* disk, which is incredibly convenient. And their online sales system is maybe not stellar, but it is not that bad either. How many actually had problems with it among those who are criticising it ?
Mandrake is largely worth the price you pay for it. And selling ads is a brilliant idea, at least in the way they plan for 9.2.
Go, Mandrake, go !!!
S. J.
I now will be referring to Mandrake's distro as "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey Linux".
basically, there are only two revenue models in this world
You forgot "3: PROFIT!"
Would you consider buying the CDs straight from Mandrake (or from your local enlightened software shop), or does the taint of advertising still cling to all Mandrake products? Cause that would be a pretty extreme situation.
Incidentally, I agree with you about avoiding TV, commercial radio, commercial-heavy magazines, etc. I see television maybe once every month or two if I'm in a bar or something, and every time I'm re-surprised by how crass the consumerism is - both the overt ads and the embedded ones in programs (plus the pervasive 'owning expensive new stuff will make you happy' attitude that acts like a sort of generic ad for stuff). It's especially mindblowing when I see American TV - I'm in Canada, where ads for stuff like prescription medications is illegal.
What is the robbing of a bank, compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertolt Brecht
Maybe someone should suggest the opensource community sponsor a few AntiRIAA ads? Perhaps a listing of Congreslaves who've sold out to the RIAA. I'd kick in a few bucks for that. Even if it is preaching to the choir.
RedHat and SuSE could place adverts and bookmarks encouraging Mandrake users to switch.
Mind you, I expect Mandrake will filter such adverts out as it'll probably pass through a human and is not some automated process.
I think that I shall never see A billboard lovely as a tree
Perhaps unless the billboards fall, I'll never see a tree at all.
What is the robbing of a bank, compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertolt Brecht
Ah, accidentally clicked on the article, did you?
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
They priced the ads way too low. Heck, they shouldn't have "priced" them at all. They need to treat this as a product-placement and negotiate each ad in secret.
I know they need money fast, and that 9.2 is almost out the door. However, they are setting a bad precedent for themselves and pricing themselves into the "inferior goods" category.
Maybe $7000 is actually a reasonable price for something which is refreshed every few months. However, it looks cheep.
They are not selling newspaper ads or website banners and they need to stop acting like they are.
They need to fix this before masses of inferior ads drive their customers away.
I'm not real concerned about the actual ads. They'll be wiped by my custom settings anyway. However, since I use and like Mandrake, I'd prefer if they didn't screw their long term image in search of short term funds.
This is not a political statement. This is not legal advice. It's a frick'n Slasdot post. However: I'm Running For
The Computer Lab (actualy it was called something else and was part of the library, but I forget the "official" name, everybody called it a lab) I used to work at had auto-shutoff monitors at first. this feature was disabled after a month. Why? Whenever ANY moniter powered on, it would distort the (approx) 12 closest other monitors. Having your screan waver 10-20 times per hour was just to much, with screans as close together as those babys were, we just had to go for screansavers (my idea to go SETI@home was, sadly, not approved)
Little Brother, watching the watchers
Now, drop that CD or the bunny get's it!
(Disclaimer: Since I'm also a Slackware user no one has to actually meet these demands but we can always pretend right? And yes, the stuffed bunny [Mandrake] will be ok.)
AAAAA! THERE AFTER ME! THERE GONNA GET ME!!!!! ****WHAM!**** (monitone voice) Must... buy... penis... enlargement.. and... microsoft... products.... Must... send... SCO... $699...
All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
This installation of man is brought to you by Chippendales!
The phrases "This is do-able" and "..the goatse.cx guy in all his glory.." sit uneasily together in my mind...
I would imagine that the goatse.cx guy sits uneasily anywhere.
Ohh...If I were Bill Gates, I would _so_ buy my face into every Mandrake installation for 7k... ;-P
Here it comes. McLinux is on it's way. It won't be long before we have people running "Linux" at home with that annoying "You've got mail" sound. Get ready to have Linux destroyed in the same way that the Internet has been.
Un-news
Of course, this has been done before. MS does it on most most of their OS (and office?) installs, but they only advertise for themselves. Oh yeah, and charge you for the chance.
If you're really upset by ads, do what I do - ignore them, or laugh. Marketspeak is quite funny as long as you remember that it isn't true...
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
How's that supposed to work. 'Get our product dirt-cheap. CLICK HERE.' - *click* - 'Sorry. Your operating system has not been installed yet. Please wait.'
You need to consider its THEIR product. so its THEIR morals that guide them, NOT yours..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
It would be so much easier if Mandrake named the ads as "list of sponsors of free software" or something like that. The money generated will, after all, at least partially go to open source development.
Now, my question is, why do you guys support a failing company that founded its business on slightly modifying RedHat's distribution and then trying to sell it for a profit? Why did you give money to Mandrake (when they begged for it) in the first place? And once they proved that they were irresponsible with it, or didn't have a sound business model, why did you do it again? And now, when Mandrake starts talking about selling advertising to pay for Free software, why are you supporting them?
Either don't support them, or help them make an honest living that doesn't involve annoying and/or exploiting their customers. That's what I'd say about the RIAA, and I won't compromise those values for Mandrake either.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
If adverts work on Slashdot then why not in Mandrake. Hypocrites!
If I was Microsoft I would. I couldn't think of something more amusing than messages like
"Does your soundcard refuse work? - Choose Microsoft Windows today!"
or
"X can't find your display? - Windows will help you! Order today!"
displayed during installation. SCNR.
But Hi ho hi ho it is off to debian I go....
For the next round of penis enlargement :-)
This sets a terrible precident!! The next thing you will see is advertisements on TV, advertisements on the radio, advertisements on web pages, where will it end?
Seriously, how damn intrusive is this? I kinda liked the tractors on 8.1 but who really cares what is happening during the install (unless the adverts are REALLY obnoxious and crash the installer?)
I suppose it could be a problem with bandwidth usage. If my screensaver kicks on and my demand dialer (the missus won't let me have broadband) connects to my ISP and my box is displaying ads for three days, that will pretty much use up my 40 hours/month.
Still, if you're smart enough to grok linux, you're probably smart enough to defeat the screen saver. I'm just glad that mandrake is exploring other avenues of capital than going under or selling out.
The fact that mandrake delivers spamassassin with the downloadable package and privoxy is available through a contrib mirror says that mandrake DOES care about their users desires to escape adverts.
And yes, I click on the banner adds when I visit slashdot, not because I give a damn about the product, it's just easier than joining the slashdot club (I am a mandrake club member and a transgaming member and I donate money to the FSF)
Now, if GCC could display adverts while building that kernel. . .
No one told me when I spent all that time debugging and reporting bugs to them they would use my time to spew ads all over the place.
Screw that, if you want free debugging, then NO ADS! I probably saved them $7000 in programming fees they would have to pay someone to do what I did.
This sucks.
What's the next distro that's ad free? I'm going to support that!
I think it would be ok to have advertising screensavers and images on the installation process. :) )
It could even be a good idea to have NICE advertising on NICE screensavers (and they must still behave like screensavers, not activate at random
But not on the browser or any application for that matter.PLEASE!
errera hunamum ets
Let's see, of the top of my head... ... keep em coming
SCO
MS(like on this slashdot page and all over SourceForge)
RIAA
*BSD
BeOS
NRA
How sleepless is the egg, knowing that which throws the stone forsees the bone.
Like the ones red hat pushes out to you ' try our certification program'.... or ' red hat advanced server' bla bla bla...
.. there isn't an need to add outside companies crap on my screen too..
They are offensive enough
I'm so sick of being bombarded by ads 24/7 from every source, be it the road sign every 10 feet, or the 40 mins of commercials for a 60 min tv/radio program, or 80% ad content in my magazine, that I make it a point to NOT purchase a product if see an advertisement for it.
The entire commercialization of the world has gone too far.. you can even rent space on a police car.. or a school bus..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
After reading a couple of the posts, I thought I'd chime in with my .2
In the last couple of RedHat releases (beginning with 8.0 I think) Don't they scroll through adverts for thier own stuff? Training, Certification, etc, etc?
So why should we bash Mandrake for doing a similar thing? Granted, they are not just adverting for thier own services, but are we not showing a double standard for bashing Mandrake but not saying a thing about RedHat's installer doing the same thing?
This is PURE EAU DE TROLLETTE
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Charging a small access fee to download the distro without ads.
Mandrake is about 1.5GB on 3CDs so at $2 a gig, you could charge 3 bucks and break even or even make a small amount if your cost per gig of transfer is less. Or just say $5 and you get access for 30 days to download the distro. If you don't manage to download it before then, it's a very trivial matter to check your access records to verify you're an absurd procrastinator and give you an extension.
Or, how about selling it on CD-R for a small price like $2 per disc plus shipping? It's less than a buck to ship a few CDs anywhere in the US using the USPS.
Or, how about doing all three to satify pretty much everyone.
Adware for those who don't want to pay. A small fee for those willing to pay. And a slightly more expesive fee (production+shipping) for those who don't care to download 1.5GB on a 56K modem and want some media. And then of course the full blown package with all kinds of extras and professionally pressed CDs for a much higher price for those willing to spend the money to support Mandrake.
Open Source people need to take a few marketing classes. There are tons of options that don't involve whoring yourself out to advertisers.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
And I thought M$ was the enemy... I see now that the Linux community is going to kill itself: Mandrake puts advertising in its product, Red Hat and their infamous BlueCurve theme and short support cycles, etc.
Sad to hear it.
A clever person solves a problem, A wise person avoids it. -Einstein
GREAT! Now my Linux browser's going to default to MSN.com!
:wq
This happens when you don't have a valid business model. Soon the CEO will be selling his body ...
Dear Mandrake,
I've tried many versions of Mandrake Linux, and even used v8.2 for a short while when Red Hat was not working very well. Unfortunately I found some shortcomings with Mandrake also. At present I'm running SuSE 8.2. I tried it from download and subsequently spent US$80 for the pro version.
I was getting interested in trying Mandrake 9.2 when it releases, but not now!
Are you trying to alienate this other side of the Linux community? Well, if you are, congratulations! If not, you might wish to reconsider using ads in the distro. Regardless, that's one download I'll not try, and accordingly it's one distro I will not buy.
Do while true:
Read the subject line: Hey Mandrake, BAD IDEA!
Graham
Linux - Fast Pane Relief
I have no problem with ads during install or in optional screen savers, in fact it seems like a good idea to me. The Linux community needs to find a way to generate more money so that it can compete with the gorillas out there. I know the whole commercial concept seems terrifying to many of the Free Software people, but as long as the ads are optional, or are non-intrusive, I'd say go ahead and make some cash. I've always thought games, especially of the MMO* type, should sell ad space in the game. Why not use virtual billboards to pay your subscription cost? But again, it must not interfere with what you're actually trying to do, be it run an OS or play a game.
That's my 2 cents, but I'll let you pay the taxes on them.
RedHat!
Bye Bye Mandrake. No diskspace for you!
Support your distro and buy a membership or a shelf-package of Mandrake. At least part of the distro vendor's financial issues are the number of people who never pay for a copy.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I share your distaste for advertising.
However: what do you recommend instead of advertising for them? We're talking about the free version of Mandrake here. You don't have to buy the product with your $$$. Instead you 'buy' it with your eyeballs. But if you don't like it, just buy the retail version.
Everyone working on Mandrake deserves to be paid too. They have families to feed, hobbies to support, and children to send to college too. Expecting them to work for free is just plain wrong.
Maybe you don't intend for them to work for free, but that's where complaints like this lead.
As for the advertising on police cars, etc., this is the same issue; just a different flavor. Every time a local referendum in a community for additional taxes to support elevated services fails, they get that much closer to pimping themselves for advertisers in order to pay for services. The alternative is to shut down the service in question or reduce it to an unacceptable (to most people) level..
The commercialization of the world can be crass and annoying, I agree. But the marks or commercialization are the by-product of a world-wide market economy, one that hasn't even matured and reached sustainability yet. Until sustainability is reached, or something better comes along, get used to it.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
the only way that this sort of maneuvering could be acceptable would be if they were exclusively accepting advertising dollars from the SCO group... because that'd just be some funny shit.
why is it that we, as linux users/developers, have to feel sympathy for organizations that have gone the corporate route?
MDK is in financial trouble... SO WHAT.
if it's free, then let it be free.
if it's "conditionally" free, then set it aside... it is no longer linux.
if MDK needs more revenue (in order to survive as a corporate entity) then, they have lost track of what it means to be a part of the linux community. linux was never about "taking-over-the-world" until someone discovered what IPO stands for. (note: thanks for the exploitation, bastards)
who took away all of the coders who "will work for bandwidth" and replaced them with bottom feeding marketers?
IF YOUR LINUX DISTRIBUTION CANNOT SURVIVE WITHOUT ADVERTISING REVENUE THEN YOUR DISTRO IS WEAK AND WILL BE REPLACED WITH ONE THAT CAN SURVIVE ON IT'S OWN MERITS.
deal with it. weak companies die every day.
MDK isn't MS... tossing $$ into the mix will do nothing to attract new users and will alienate them from linux "purists" (the talented, non-posturing folks who started this whole thing).
Goodbye Mandrake. Enjoy selling out... perhaps to SCO?
I am unhappy about paying for a Silver membership in the Mandrake Club and being treated like a non-subscriber. If I am not allowed a non-ad version I WILL be rethinking my commitment to support Mandrake.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Anyone who's willing to run Linux is too cheap to buy anything in the first place! Seriously, I just don't get it...why would anyone think they could sell a product by putting ads on something that the person viewing it didn't want to bother paying for in the first place? If they're so cheap that they'd be willing to put up with ads to use Mandrake, they sure as hell ain't gonna shell out for your product! Unless you've got a free, ad-supported version...
Nameless Foo writes ""With millions of downloads and sales every year, Mandrakesoft products are among the most popular Linux solutions available. You now have the opportunity to dramatically increase your visibility with a new advertising tool. Regular screen savers will be replaced by advertising in the download version of Mandrake Linux. Place a link to your website in every Mandrake Linux 9.2 version: in every browser, a link to your website will be visible on the taskbar and in the bookmark section. At system installation, advertisements are displayed at different steps, while users are waiting. You ad can appear on the Default page which is seen by every user when any browser included in the product is launched."
7680 MB Disk,192 GB Transfer,
no soup for you
Where it would have complete control of all the ad space and the *DESKTOP* and have it setup to dial right into AOL.
I still say in the end it would be good for Linux, too. Imagine AOL sending out free Linux distros in the mail just like they do their stuff now.
Usurper_ii
Ron Paul
If you have a GUI at all, please don't use Linux!
Gimme the ads, I'm already used to them though tv, cinema, magazines, newspapers, internet sites, including Slashdot.
This is one of the best commercial ideas for perpetuating a distro's economy I've seen in a long time.
However... However, I sincerely hope they will be able to keep their heads non-pc; i.e. non politically correct, and go for engineering before anything else. I hope.
from their website:
September 12th, 2003 - Mandrake 9.2 & Ads - Due to the current controversy about ads, MandrakeSoft is going to clarify things in a written statement soon.
I wonder if someone will haxor a Mandrake 9.lite version? All ads removed.
This whole concept does not really bother me 1 bit. I think as long as it remains free and downloadable they have every right to go all Nascar on it.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
3. sell access to advertisers to your end users
I for one wont be supporting thier distro if this is the only way they can figure out how to raise some cash... the install process i can understand but adds when browsing the web and in my screensaver? please, its not like i dont get enough spam in my inbox already. Maybe these guys needs some better ideas? How about a mandrake XXX calendar (mandrake girls) heh
The power of Linux for the Desktop comes from the simple fact: it is an OS, with no strings attached. No peeky spies, ads, backdoors, AOL dialers, reporting features like in Windows Media Player and likes. It is unobtrusive and respects privacy, no unintended software installs.
Killing this off with big bitmaps and smart distractors will only push hardcore people either to Debian or those who simply want to get their job done back to Windows - at least the latter works seamlessly with every software title and hardware purchased. And it does not have ads either.
Linux is not for the novice use... Most power users who run Linux are a bit above the typical user. If this comes about I can see this as te death of a good operating system.
I think this is great for Mandrake. Those of us who tend to buy our distributions will not have to worry about it, and those who merely download from Mandrake will be helping Mandrake recoup the cost of bandwidth.
And in both cases, Mandrake makes more money to continue developing its excellent distribution.
Debian isn't quite ad-free, but all ads need to be in both the users and the free-software community's interests - which leaves a very small area of advertising (there's a consultants page and some of the mirrors have a small static image linked to the sponser page)
Join us!
Duh, is that a photo of Johnny Cash? Can you give me a link to color version?
There's a clear difference between marketing a product and annoying people. According to your definition, every splash screen would be the same as advertisements, I don't think so.
Putting Adds in there installer or Adds anywhere in a Distro just doesn't seem fair to me.
I am just not going to install MDK... thats simple.
Next thing thats going to happen there will be an add in my Bios screen when i turn on my laptop...
Here is the statement that Madrake released to clarify the situation: A controversy has erupted today in the Linux community about the upcoming Mandrake Linux 9.2 and advertizing. Although the overall reaction from the community is mostly positive, a few people don't seem to be happy about having advertizing in Mandrake 9.2. We'd like to explain briefly why we have done this and why you shouldn't worry. 0) There won't be any ad in the screensavers in Mandrake 9.2 There will be one paid-ad in the installation procedure, and a few paid-links in bookmarks. 1) Ads are selected and won't be intrusive. Our advertizing plan is only offered to MandrakeSoft partners - we select only ads that make sense as complementary Linux solutions. Additionally, ads won't be intrusive (no pop-up windows) and can be removed easily. 2) There have been ads in Mandrake Linux for years. Maybe you didn't notice it, but in the installation procedure and in browser's bookmarks, there have been many links to Mandrake products, the GNU project, many Open Source projects and so on. In Mandrake 9.1 there was the first "commercial" link to a technical book content provider. Nobody was annoyed, we didn't get any feedback about that. 3) Free Software and business model. As we are firmly committed to Open Source/Free Software, we want to keep on exploring business models that are compatible with this spirit.
AFAIK, there was no /. article about RH's install ads.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
slashdot will be selling ads...
oh.
wait a minute..
hrm..
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
One small step for advertising...
One giant leap back for the linux community...
Ugh... I suppose it was just a matter of time before someone figured out how to get crap ads onto a linux user's machine without having the Windows RPC vulnerability to exploit. 8P
Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!" until you can find a rock.
I am constantly impressed by the amount of true innovation that has come from one company:
1. urpmi
2. Mandrakeclub
3. rpm voting (yeah, I know Deb was here before, but this is the first time for a Commercial Company to do this)
4. Open Source Sponsor Ads
I am proud to be a Silver member and will gladly give products of Mandrake sponsors priority when I consume (and will look forward to see who is sponsoring my software next time I update my computers. I though the point of Open Source is great code is great, regardless of who coded it or paid for it to be coded under the GPL).
btw, if you are mad about these ads because now you really wont be getting a 100% free lunch when you download MDK 9.2, it is time to move out of your parent's basement and get a job. Good intentions don't pay for dinner (though, Mandrake is getting damn close to that scenario!)
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
The cracks in the "we'll work for nothing 'cause its fun and righteous" compensation model of Linux are beginning to really show, aren't they?
Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
Or are they attempting to restrict that idea, too?
If so, would this be a GPL violation?
If not, well... interesting way to reduce the download bandwidth requirements by 99%.
Mandrake has every right to sell advertisments. If it bothers you then you have every right to choose another distro (or "fix" the Mandrake distro).
Frankly, this may be one way to make open source projects actually profitable. Of course, ads are like seasoning, you want to serve up something that isn't too sweet, too salty, too hot... I suspect that Mandrake is well aware that too much will hurt more then help and that this will not be a problem. I also suspect that they are aware of what will be appropriate for their product so you won't get hit with ads for penis enlargment or Microsoft Office.
If this is a success, and part of me hopes it will be, there is a real chance that other projects floundering for lack of financing will do the same thing. This could be a real boost in the arm for open source. I can see games sponsored by McDonalds or an office suite sponsored by Staples but I can't see an MP3 player supported by the RIAA (or at least I wouldn't trust it).
We all know Linux is robust enough to go head to head against Microsoft but Linux lacks a sizeable war chest. Advertising inside of a free operating system could help this in two ways. First is the income. Second is the advertisers desire to see the product successful. This influence could be a great advantage because the sponsor can push the product too!
Imagine Best Buy advertising on a special distro and then making it available free or next to free in all of their stores. The user gets a free O/S and Best Buy has a desktop filled with the latest weekly specials! I suppose Best Buy sells too much MS software for that to happen but you get the picture.
I am. In my quest to find a distro that just works, I've pretty much downloaded all the major ones. And since I have them, I might as well sell them. I havn't figured out the pricing yet but as my registered business license is for selling software, everything is in place.
I could then take a portion of each sale and donate it to the creator of the distro.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
While you install mandrake:
"Ad messages from Microsoft"
- Make sure you have the next week off if you want to
watch DVD's on the system you're now installing.
Did you know your system requires manual installation of DeCSS? If you don't know what we're jabbering about
consider switching to Windows now and free yourself
from hard work and intelligent efforts!
- If you continue this installation , we will make sure you'll never chat with your friends again! MSN-IM will not be
Linux compatible in the future! Switch back - stay in touch . With your fuzzy friends at Microsoft.
- You have been warned, continue with this installation of Mandrake Linux and we'll re-invent HTML code and
never make a standard, that way - you'll only be able to enjoy online content if you use Internet Explorer on a
windows system only. Come back to us - don't be left out in the cold.
- Your system is almost installed, but
Remember - We've got more money than you.
Do you really think you can make it on your own? File incompatabillity, when you send off that portfolio CD
that just wont work on your future employers PC....
Switch Back now before it's too late,
and besides...we love...your money.
I'm a happy Mandrake user, and while the current round of ads don't bother me, I am indeed concerned about what the future will bring. What ads are they considering for the next release? Ads on the desktop? Ads within programs? Popups? Ads in email? Flash ads I can't easily get rid of or turn off?
I just hope Mandrake it's going down the slippery slope into obtrusive ads.
My comments here are my own; I do not speak for my employer.
For those of you who are too lazy to go to the Mandrake link ...
...
We'd like to explain briefly why we have done this and why you shouldn't worry.
0) There won't be any ad in the screensavers in Mandrake 9.2
There will be one paid-ad in the installation procedure, and a few paid-links in bookmarks.
1) Ads are selected and won't be intrusive.
Our advertizing plan is only offered to MandrakeSoft partners - we select only ads that make sense as complementary Linux solutions. Additionally, ads won't be intrusive (no pop-up windows) and can be removed easily.
2) There have been ads in Mandrake Linux for years.
Maybe you didn't notice it, but in the installation procedure and in browser's bookmarks, there have been many links to Mandrake products, the GNU project, many Open Source projects and so on. In Mandrake 9.1 there was the first "commercial" link to a technical book content provider. Nobody was annoyed, we didn't get any feedback about that.
3) Free Software and business model.
As we are firmly committed to Open Source/Free Software, we want to keep on exploring business models that are compatible with this spirit.
This doesn't seem as bad as you people are making it seem
Posts which would have us sumbit to corporate powers and agendas are moderated up, while posts standing up for the dignity of the Human Person are moderated as trolls.
The only troll around here is the parent who suggested that we are foolish or somehow childish to stand up for our rights, to stand up for our dignity and our pride, and to demand that respect we are due.
I see how it is. The Slashdot moderators in their jobs in the corporate world must rationalize their behavior, their submission, by beating down dissent.
Come on Slashdot, where is your spirit? Why do you accept and moderate up such a defeatist attitude?
You are more than how you are marketed. You are more than your utility to the corporate prison in which you for a time reside.
How dare you moderate the truth, a troll.
Every word of what I have posted is true.
How dare you.
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
Posts which would have us sumbit to corporate powers and agendas are moderated up, while posts standing up for the dignity of the Human Person are moderated as trolls.
The only troll around here is the parent who suggested that we are foolish or somehow childish to stand up for our rights, to stand up for our dignity and our pride, and to demand that respect we are due.
I see how it is. The Slashdot moderators in their jobs in the corporate world must rationalize their behavior, their submission, by beating down dissent.
Come on Slashdot, where is your spirit? Why do you accept and moderate up such a defeatist attitude?
Do you really believe that it is childish, foolish, a "fetish" to stand up and demand the respect you are due? Do you really believe that it is foolish to stand up and boldly send the message that we do not want to be treated as livestock?
Stand up and let the advertisers know that we will not be treated this way. How dare we consent to this mistreatment. Stand up.
You are more than how you are marketed. You are more than your utility to the corporation in which you for a time reside.
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
This is a link about the Ad's from Mandrake http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/mdkads.php3
install splash screen; i bet gates has mroe money then that lost in his couch they should just buy ALL of hte ad space and have a 40 minute ballmer monkey dance through out the entire thing while he chants things like THE GPL IS A VIRUS; MANDRAKE IS FRENCH BUY MICROSOFT BE A PATRIOT; etc
Who are you to make this pronouncement? Is your pride and your dignity worth nothing to you that you would mock those who would stand up for what little they have left in this life?
Is that how you rationalize this to yourself, by claiming that it is somehow foolish or childish to resist, or to want a certain amount of respect in this world?
What was your price, man?
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
...the parent poster makes his or her living from marketing?
A "fetish"?
Come on now. So you don't find advertising offensive; ok, but do you really need to insult others in order to rationalize your position?
I don't want to be an armchair psychologist here, but what is this with putting others down in order to rationalize or attempt to command respect for your generally unfavorable position?
Does it make you feel strong?
It is you who are being childish. You do not speak for me, and I do not think you speak for many other Human Persons here.
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
I think the main difference is that the RIAA is successful, and might actually have a monopoly of some sort. But annoying/exploiting your customers is never good, whether you make money doing so or not.
However, I--like you--don't use Mandrake. I tried it once, and wasn't impressed, and went from RedHat to Gentoo. But it looks like a lot of people here do use or otherwise support Mandrake.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
(As a gentoo user i'm gonna use gentoo terms, but this could be applicable to anything)
Well, i'm gonna check the Budweiser install guides on how to use Coca-Cola Emerge to install a Sprint binary package for UPS Bash. If i can't find an answer, i'm gonn fire up Marlboro man and see what the man page for Nike Portage says on the topic.
This is not a troll, it's true, and I agree entirely.
If you don't want to pay to support Mandrake's efforts and don't want ads, there are still alternatives, but how many of the free distros will be able to keep going with little or no revenue to cover their costs?
Meanwhile, Debian will be announcing that it will be charging $5 a pop for advertising in it's installer.
The price difference is only fair; a Mandrake user will see the ads a couple of times a year, while a Debian user will only see the ads once during the lifetime of the machine.
Stay tuned for the announcement when or if the new Debian installer is ready.
"Adware" has huge negative connotations, which generally revolve around enlarging your sexual organs.
Mandrake is proposing to put 1 ad in the installer and a few paid links in the default bookmarks. Whoop-de-do.
If there were a little optional box you could have that would display ads of your choice, I'd go for it. Mandrake gets paid, I get to see what I want. And because they know that if they piss users they'll lose them, they've got a real incentive to keep the ads clean and targeted.
Quick! Let me get a pen and write down the deta- oh, damn, missed it.
When Mandrake goes under, I get first dibs on their chairs.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
this is not offtopic to the parent post
"I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance" - Isaac Asimov
1. When I said URPMI, I ment The Mandrake Control Center, where users can just click on what they want and it magically downloads and installs. I don't think apt-dep can compete in "ease of use" in that respect
.).
.
.
2. Yeah, maybe in the future, but you have to realize that at this point it is just not feasible to have someone make an rpm for you everytime you ask, for $60 a year! The system is still developing, so maybe one day the rpm voting system will get developers devoted to packaging members' requests (personally, I really don't care whether it is a paid developer or volunteer who packages my request . .
3. See above . .
4. Errh, this is really a GREAT idea. Millions of people download the distro, and they really can earn a lot of revenue this way. But I just don't get you. First you complain that they aren't spending enough to make mandrakeclub worth paying for and then when they try to generate revenue that should relieve a lot of the burden from club members (and allow more money to go into making the club better), you call it "The last nail in their financial struggle." I guess some people are IMPOSSIBLE to satisfy . .
Makes me wonder if you really have a problem with Mandrake or just have some significant problems understanding the way things work.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
I didn't rtfa but...
1. Will the screen savers have ads?
2. How intrusive will the ads be? Eg will there be popups
3. Will the ads be relevent to providing linux solutions
4. Is Mandrake still committed to the Open/Free Software business model?
Thanks,
Joey
I hope Slashdot doesn't give in to this trend and start putting advertisements on their website.
They would totally lose my respect if they were to sell out like that!
I wonder if there is a way to get rid of the ads altogether if we buy the software commerically? That way I would be sponsoring mandrake and NO ADS
Redhat 9 won't install (or give you reasons why) on hardware that they claim will work. I have an AMD K6-2 with 256 MB, 400 mhz, and that ought to work, but won't. Now, if Mandrake can, then it's an improvement. Currently, I use Debian 2.2, and it runs very well on such a box, Mandrake 8 takes more resources, to do the same job, essentially. I can't run MozillaFirebird on Debian 2.2, but in some ways, Galeon will do ok instead. Guess I'm just going to have to pop for a nicer (more powerful) MB to run RHL 9. Do understand why Mandrake had to do this ad thing, and I'm sure everyone will have a ball disabling those ads-while-web-browsing features. I'd like to give Mandrake a try.
This is still in Open Source code right? So how long will it take for someone to figure this out and post a few Perl scripts for removing this krap from everyone's system? Probably not long at all. So what is the point?
This will probably kill Mandrake for any professional setting. My last employer had a mix of Mandrake, Red Hat, and SuSE. I am not really suprised.
Best Slashdot comment ever
I won't use anything that forces ads down my throat.
As it is now my firewall blocks ads (smoothwall w/ad zapper)
It blocks a huge number of them, it's very, very rare that I'm assaulted with annoying ads. It stops most scripts, gifs, and flash ads.
But still, I totally abandoned Winbloz because of this very sort of thing (among many other reasons.)
What's next? Spyware?? Come to think of it, having read how the ads are served, SOMEONE will be gathering statistics on who, what, where, when, etc..
Count on this info being sold and traded too.
This is a sad day in Linux world.
I'll stick with 9.1 and just add in the goodies of 9.2 (if there really are any) peicemeal.
Maybe Texstar will clean this up. I'm not skilled enough to do that so don't give me a hard time, I'm learning. But, if 9.2 turns out to be the killer OS that sets the world on fire I *MAY* purchase it on DVD.
Worse comes to worse I may have to switch to Suse or Debian. But whatever the end brings up, I will *NOT* be using the adware version. That's simply bullshit and I'll have none of that..
Bad move Mandrake. You'll alienate a *LOT* of fans...
P.S. Adware is usually the first attempt to salvage a dying biz..
Are adds during installation of Linux morally reprehensive?
() Yes.
() No.
(x) CowboyNeal is really the goatse.cx guy.
I love Mandrake. Viva la Mandrake. It's the best free OS in the world, IMHO. (Out of all the BSD's and BeOS, other Linux distros... etc.)
If these adds can even help them 1 iota. It's well worth it. Mandrake is great and every single cent that can make it better is worthwhile.
nice try though.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look the other way, but why are you going to use the distro in the first place, if you just have to go into mandrakes horribly formed config files? Mandrake isn't an easy distribution, it's a "STUPID" distribution. If you don't like ads and spyware, go somewhere else. It's actually easier to manually configure most of the "poweruser" distributions than mandrake, and if you can't live with mandrakes ads, the easiest solution is to GO SOMEWHERE else.
Shameless plug: arch linux! i686 based distro with a slackware-looking installer, but a few more features, and much more up-to-date. with unique abilities to compile your kernel right in the install, so you never have to boot a bloated one.
It also has a developing, but good package system, and it doesn't get messed up like gentoo's portage. get an iso at archlinux.org
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
...but OTOH I don't sell MS mice except on demand anyway. The AOpen O-35G mice are cheaper, lighter, have an extra wheel and have been at least as reliable for me as the MS opticals. I guess the MS optical mice I've used in the field have been different models to yours or something, because it's not been a problem for me. I've installed with a variety of opticals including a $23 micro-mouse from Big-W (a Woolworths variant) and yukky Dexxa mice, and they all seem to work just fine. How many machines, how many different types of machine, have you seen the problem on?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I would prefer that there were no adds but a company has to make some money. At least they still offer a free downloadable ISO unlike some other companies (SUSE)
your cousins name is Furnace, he's a fucking dwarf
I understand the need. They are after all, an employer of programers, and programers need a salary. It's 100% bullshit to say that programers should be paid less or not all (amazing how many companies are trying that stunt these days).
But I disagree with the approach. It's all to easy for bean counters to say "let's just pop up ads". There are other ways to generate revenue and provide a good product/service to their customers. It just takes more thinking instead of just jumping on the band wagon of pop up ads.