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Microsoft Wants to Project "Cool" Image

Posted by michael on from the it's-cool-to-get-viruses dept.

rocketjam writes "C-Net is reporting that Microsoft is working to get their products placed in popular TV shows like Fox's "24" and HBO's "The Wire" as part of a push from executive Jim Allchin called 'cool form factor'. Like MacDonald's recent hip-makeover marketing efforts, Allchin wants to engender a hip, consumer brand image for the company which is largely perceived as an enterprise software company. Microsoft would like to capture some of the cachet that Apple Computer has among the fashionable and Hollywood tech elite."

568 comments

  1. About time... by __aaklbk2114 · · Score: 1

    Finally, Microsoft is going to get the street cred it deserves!

    1. Re:About time... by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It already has the street cred it deserves.

      It's just trying to get the street cred it craves.

      It's important to make sure it doesn't get it. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to make sure it doesn't. This message will self-destruct in 15 months.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    2. Re:About time... by cloricus · · Score: 1

      Mission, but we all know they will fail before they start just like the ads they are trying to mimic. Or maybe this is an attempt at 2) ? to get to 3?

      --
      I ate your fish.
    3. Re:About time... by CountBrass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it deserved it, it would have it already. Personally I don't see it working, for two reasons: 1. Mass-market by definition cannot be cool. Cool requires a degree of exclusivity. 2. Microsoft's philosophy is "pile em' high sell 'em cheap, and fix the bugs eventually". Again, this is the anti-thesis of cool. Basically MS lack the perfectionist drive. I'm not making either of these points to knock MS as a company - they're very succesful at what they do and make a ton of cash. It's just that what do is incompatible with being "cool". Edward

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    4. Re:About time... by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Basically MS lack the perfectionist drive. I'm not making either of these points to knock MS as a company - they're very succesful at what they do and make a ton of cash.

      You're slightly wrong here. They have the perfectionist drive in spades. It's just that they are trying to perfect making money, not perfect making product.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    5. Re:About time... by darien · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's just trying to get the street cred it craves. It's important to make sure it doesn't get it.

      Thankfully, Microsoft's success in having become 'the establishment' will make it very hard for them to acquire street cred. That sort of perception tends to attach to rebels, free-thinkers and high performers, not monolithic institutions. While it's true that MS itself has shown breathtaking contempt for the law, using their software is not going to make you a rebel without a cause; it's going to make you a sheep without an alternative.

    6. Re:About time... by I(rispee_I(reme · · Score: 1

      See my sig for one of corporate america's latest attempts to assimilate (or at least emulate) grass roots marketing.

    7. Re:About time... by tsa · · Score: 1

      MS is the Nissan of the software world. It'll never be cool.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    8. Re:About time... by Kenshin · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Microsoft's philosophy is "pile em' high sell 'em cheap, and fix the bugs eventually".

      I can't beleive you're saying Office and Windows, with their 80% profit margin, are sold "cheap".

      --

      Does it make you happy you're so strange?

    9. Re:About time... by Viceice · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not true.

      What do you think the RIAA is doing? They mass market music on MTV and such to make it desirable, then they sell CD's at inflated prices at such a level that only those of a certain economic level with the disposable can buy them, maintaining exclusivity and thus ensuring "coolness".

      Marketing: The end-result of 50 years of Psychoanalytical research + Greed.

      --
      Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
    10. Re:About time... by CountBrass · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Compared to the price of a product in which all of the bugs were fixed - yes I am saying it's cheap.

      There is a general rule, which applies particularly to software development that 80% of the value takes 20% of the effort. That last 20% of the value costs the remaining 80%. It's the 80:20 rule. Microsoft are masters of this rule. Many failed companies failed because they didn't take this rule into account. Edward

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    11. Re:About time... by CountBrass · · Score: 1

      Sorry but neither the RIAA nor CDs count as cool in any way shape or form. 15-20 years ago CDs were cool in a geeky way because they were rare. Now they're uniquitous, mass-market and not cool.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    12. Re:About time... by Unregistered · · Score: 0

      MS is the Nissan of the software world. It'll never be cool.

      I see you don't know any ricers.

    13. Re:About time... by Mochi · · Score: 1

      CountBrass is right. The RIAA helps makes the music and image of the musicians "cool", but this does absolutely nothing for the image of the RIAA.

      This is similar to the state that Microsoft is already in. Take, for example, the PDA market: Ipaq's are "cool", accessible to a relatively small segment of society with disposable income, and their presence and popularity is has been facilitated in-large-part by Microsoft (via the PocketPC push). But Microsoft itself, is not connected with this "coolness factor". No one says, "Sweet! You're running PocketPC 2003".

    14. Re:About time... by saden1 · · Score: 0

      You obviously don't own a brand new 2004 Nissan Maxima.

      Hatter!

      --

      -----
      One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
    15. Re:About time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've obviously never lived in Japan.

    16. Re:About time... by 0111+1110 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that MS avoids sqaushing bugs due to costs. I don't believe this is the case. They are willing to live with bugs because they do not directly affect their bottom line.

      If MS decides to increase their budget for a particular application, it will be to add features. Features tend to add even more bugs (and bloat), but they are great for marketing and hence sales. Features directly add value. Bugfixes do not. People (naively) expect their software to work as advertised. Customers don't want to have to pay extra for the company to fix something that was never supposed to have been broken.

      Commercial customers with tech-savvy sys-admins can be a problem here. This is the only reason that MS ever developed the NT series of OSes. At least there MS paid at least some attention to reliability and bugfixes. But the point is that it was only because they felt they had no choice. Below a certain level of reliability Linux/Unix would just be too tempting an alternative for this market segment.

      I realize that many /.ers see MS's problem as one of its commercial nature and monopolistic ambitions to dominate the world etc. While I agree with those criticisms, the essential nature of their problem from my POV as a potential customer is this features-not-bug-fixes philosophy of theirs. From a strictly profit-making, shareholder-value POV, I can see their point, but from an end-user perspective it does make me despise them and their slimy make-a-fast-buck used car salesman ethics.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    17. Re:About time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A few reasons why MS is *not* 'hip' in the movies?

      * At a critical moment in the picture, if somebody turns to his MS laptop, everybody in the audience will expect a BSOD+reboot (hmmm, maybe like the car-that-won't-start metaphor?)

      * Entire audiences will knowingly chuckle, hey Windows can't do *that*

      * To portray a computer that won't crash, lazy scriptwriters just indicate 'mac laptop' or even the five-letter 'ibook'

    18. Re:About time... by Spoing · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Thankfully, Microsoft's success in having become 'the establishment' will make it very hard for them to acquire street cred.

      Do you drink cola or soda/pop, and if you do what national or multi-national marketing effort does it have?

      Would you feel OK holding on to a can of RC Cola? How about a Vernors? Celray?

      Where did that 'street cred' come from anyway?

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    19. Re:About time... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, I would say Cool requires a degree of apparent exclusivity. Nike (to use the same example as everyone else here) is "Cool" but is also heavily mass-marketed. A product is cool when you have managed to engender the appearance of exclusivity in your target market. I see people with Nikes everywhere: the things aren't particularly special or exclusive but the people that buy them seem to think they are. Now can they not be? Michael Jordan wears them! Whatever you think about Nike, that was one phenomenally successful marketing campaign.

      Apple Macintoshes, on the other hand, achieve their coolness by actually being exclusive. While Apple is a major corporation, their share of mouse-wielding eyeballs pales in comparison to Microsoft's. Consequently, Macs are exclusive for the simple reason that there just aren't that many out there. Just knowing someone with a Mac is unusual, whereas it's hard to find someone that doesn't use a Windows box.

      Apple plays heavily and deliberately into this, by carefully positioning themselves to appeal to those that prefer to have something distinctive. This only works if most other people can't have it, and it helps if your "cool" product costs more too. And if it works better and actually looks cooler than the rest ... "whoa, cool." Apple has successfully made themselves into something of the Rolex of PC manufacturers. As an aside, I find it ironic that Apple Computer, whose early products gave millions of people their first taste of computer power in defiance of IBM and the mainframe world, has taken this elitist road. Probably it was the only way they could survive, given the boneheaded mistakes they made years ago.

      Even so, I think that Americans also appreciate the underdog aspect to Apple's efforts (and Linux, and all others that are competing with Microsoft). That is another part of being cool: buying and supporting something that isn't mainstream from someone that is struggling against all odds. Microsoft is the J.R. Ewing of the computer world (everybody loves to hate them), and an illegal monopoly to boot, and they will have a hard time ever convincing the public that they are an underdog.

      So, yes. I agree that the public perceiving Microsoft as being cool is farfetched at this point. On the other hand, given the public's ability to swallow, well, pretty much anything that has enough advertising dollars behind it I wouldn't say that it couldn't happen. Microsoft sure has the dollars. And if they can manage to convince the buying public that your average Dell or HP/Compaq box is "cool", they will have pulled off something never before recorded in the annals of marketing history.


      Microsoft: Where do we want you to go today?

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    20. Re:About time... by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      Mass-market by definition cannot be cool. Cool requires a degree of exclusivity.

      Coke, Levis, Nike seem to have squared that circle. It only requires the perception of exclusivity. Coinsider also diamonds. Are they exclusive? Many might say yes, though almost every married woman has at least one.

    21. Re:About time... by nametaken · · Score: 1


      "1. Mass-market by definition cannot be cool."

      I agree with most of your post... but this one you'll have to take up with M.C. Hammer.

    22. Re:About time... by cosmo7 · · Score: 1

      Comparing the diamond trade to Microsoft is unfair; one is a product based on international thuggery, exploitation, corruption and price manipulation. The other is the diamond trade.

    23. Re:About time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the companies beside them used to sell at a 90% profit margin. Only after all of those companies folded (or at least their products did), did 80% look like a lot. Only after GPLed software came along for free did 80% seem ridiculous.

    24. Re:About time... by benzapp · · Score: 1

      Its not the CD's themselves (ie owning a CD is de facto cool) it is the content of said compact discs.

      People want to feel like they belong to a certain group by listening to a certain kind of music.

      The post war world has been about fostering this false individualism for profit. Everyone wants to be different, to prove their uniqueness. It has created fucked up music because artists and fans are more concerned with novelty which panders to this desire that artistic expression or even just technical excellence...

      --
      I don't read or respond to AC posts
    25. Re:About time... by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      Thankfully, Microsoft's success in having become 'the establishment' will make it very hard for them to acquire street cred.

      Dammit, no. Microsoft does not have a bad reputation because they are "the establishment". Slinky has had an effective market monopoly for over fifty years, but people still like slinkeys ("-ies?"). They're a nice product. Microsoft has a bad reputation because they produce expensive, poor products. The street is unrelenting when it comes to criticism of expensive, poor products.

      Frankly, the reason *Apple* has the appeal it does is largely because its products get contrasted to those of Microsoft -- and Microsoft's suck so badly. It's not because Apple is producing stuff that's anywhere as near as eye-opening as back in its early days. There's a lot of buzz about Linux because it's so much better than Windows -- not because everything in Linux is executed flawlessly.

      --
      May we never see th
    26. Re:About time... by t0ny · · Score: 1
      MS is already primarily an enterprise software company. Just because little Billy uses WinXP Home Edition doesnt mean MS's bread and butter come from selling it to him.

      The BULK of MS's money comes from MS Office, and the bulk of that money comes from corporate licensing. Relying on sales of OXP Upgrade at Wal-Mart just isnt going to pay the bills.

      So actually, MS is just getting people to recognize what they actually ARE, rather than what they are perceived to be. Much to the chagrin of the anti-MS zealots here, who see the Windows Boogie-man hiding under their beds and in every closet.

      --

      Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.

    27. Re:About time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you feel OK holding on to a can of RC Cola? How about a Vernors? Celray?

      Only heard of the first. But yes, I 'd be fine hold a can.

      What's your point?

    28. Re:About time... by Spoing · · Score: 1
        1. Would you feel OK holding on to a can of RC Cola? How about a Vernors? Celray?
      1. Only heard of the first. But yes, I 'd be fine hold a can.

      The other two are regional. Celray is a celery -- as in the cruncy stringy vegetable -- soda. Would you drink one? Would you try? Feel free to offer it to friends?

      1. What's your point?

      Good. Now, walk around and look to see how many of you there are.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    29. Re:About time... by danila · · Score: 1

      1. Mass-market by definition cannot be cool. Cool requires a degree of exclusivity.

      Please tell me, what cell phone model you consider "cool". Isn't it a Nokia phone by chance? :)

      After you are done with that, tell me what game console you consider "cool"? You might be a GC devotee, but my bet is most people will say PS2.

      And finally, what is the coolest PDA? I guess Tungsten, CLIE or iPaq. Not Zaurus or some other obscure niche Linux-based device, tha's for sure.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    30. Re:About time... by danila · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Bullshit. When MS started making Windows and Office, it didn't sell these products with 80% margin. Neither did its competitors. The market was simply too small to support high margins. Software costs money to develop and it costs almost nothing to produce and distribute. Once the market reached its current size, people naturally expect MS to lower prices, as microeconomics dictate. The problem is, MS highjacked microeconomics by becoming a monopoly. That's why people are pissed off.

      You see, most hardware drops in price as the market grows. But for some reason, this doesn't happen with MS software.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    31. Re:About time... by c.emmertfoster · · Score: 1

      Excelent quip, old chum. Kudos to you!

      --
      We can neither love nor pity nor forgive. If you make a slip in handling us you die!
    32. Re:About time... by styrotech · · Score: 1

      Actually you're both right in a way. Think about some of the younger Windows 'power users' or gamer type enthusiasts you see around.

      Those guys strike me as very similar to ricers - both spending huge amounts of money adding a few percentage points of performance to their commodity (eg Dell/Nissan) computers/cars and thinking they're shit hot cool badasses that know what they're doing.

      Extending this further, the Linux/BSD guys are more like guys building Tim the Toolman style hotrods in their garages, and the Apple customers are like BMW (for example) customers.

      And the rest of the Windows world is happy with going shopping or commuting in their low end Nissans that get them from A to B without too much fuss.

    33. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      I drink PC cola because it's sometimes on sale for crazy cheap (24 for less than 5 bucks CDN after tax!).

      The only marketing effort it has is placement in a bunch of sobeys stores, if I'm not mistaken.

      --
      It's been a long time.
    34. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 0

      Why not? I drink Sobe all the time, it's my favourite non-alcoholic drink, and I recommend it to anyone who will listen.

      --
      It's been a long time.
    35. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      Dude, word processors don't count as enterprise technology. Neither to Typewriters. Neither do pens. All three have, or at some point have had, their main bulk of sales coming from businesses. That's not what makes them enterprise. Usually, the term enterprise tends to mean technologies which unite huge businesses, not just things which they happen to have. I mean, office chair manufacterers don't make enterprise chair solutions!

      --
      It's been a long time.
    36. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps this analogy would work better if instead of nissan, you chose the Ford Pinto. You know, just because most versions of windows tend to burst into flames if you tap them wrong. ;)

      --
      It's been a long time.
    37. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you think the music industry today fosters fucked up, unique music, you must have missed the 80's...and 70's...and 60's...

      --
      It's been a long time.
    38. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      It just occurred to me that exclusivity isn't the only way something can be considered cool. Everybody and their mom has a copy of Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament, but they're not exactly considered uncool. Hell, any given title by ID is a best seller, but it's still considered cool, probably because it IS cool.

      Scientific, mathematical nerds(I hate that word, but it works here...) will have a huge problem trying to completely quantify 'cool'. If they didn't, they wouldn't be nerds, they'd be cool. ^ ^

      --
      It's been a long time.
    39. Re:About time... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Cool is a slippery concept, it's true. And the problem is that as soon as you figure out what is "cool", all the people that you're trying to sell your "cool" item to will immediately redefine coolness to be something entirely different. From a manufacturing/marketeering perspective, it is very difficult, to be sure, to achieve a state of coolness. Successfully staying cool for an extended period of time is exponentially more difficult. People here have pointed out that a number of major corporations have become "cool" by vast expenditures of advertising dollars, however few of those came with the amount of uncool baggage that Microsoft has. I wish the Beast of Redmond luck: it's going to need it.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    40. Re:About time... by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 0

      The how do you explain the website www.z.com ??

    41. Re:About time... by Spoing · · Score: 1

      Sobe has a nice marketing campaign. Tasty too.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    42. Re:About time... by Geek+of+Tech · · Score: 1
      > So actually, MS is just getting people to recognize what they actually ARE, rather than what they are perceived to be. Much to the chagrin of the anti-MS zealots here, who see the Windows Boogie-man hiding under their beds and in every closet.

      Uh, I could only wish. My Windows Boogie-man, makes a point of following me everywhere, sitting around in my room, and basically making himself as conspicuous (spell check that) as possible. Does your Windows boogieman try and hide himself? If so, I'll trade with you.

      --
      Stop the Slashdot effect! Don't read the articles!
    43. Re:About time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, Windows has been selling for $149+ since its inception. The competition (OS/2) charged $189+. I don't recall MS Office's price. As for your statement about economics of scale causing prices to go down, that's technically true except the fixed cost has hardly gone down in price (from disks at $1 to CDs at $0.10). Insane profit margins are in all software (more so in CDs than cartridges). Undercutting a competitor for a good sustitute and the competition not cutting prices cause one's own product to shift the average price until one company become's the sole seller.

      Where MS really "won" is by greatly undercutting (on the scale of $30) to OEMs to gain the market. Retail is still insanely high, which makes everyone want to buy a computer with Windows or Office built-in. Even at $30 there's near an 80% profit margin, and there's no reason for MS to greatly reduce the price without a perfect substitute (OpenOffice is getting there). Btw, video game makers are in the same position.

      The major difference is of course MS can (well, could) guarantee sales thanks to exclusionary licensing. To recap, MS has no reason to reduce prices because sale price and cost were never close. There are no perfect substitutes to Windows/MS Office, just like most software, as all IP maintains a semi-monopoly (technically, it's an oligarchy because of the fact there are still competitors in the market). And microeconomics never said there'd be a necessary reduced price on monopolies. This isn't just an MS thing. The exclusionary licensing was..

    44. Re:About time... by danila · · Score: 1

      No, Windows has been selling for $149+ since its inception.

      You understand what the profit margin is, don't you? If the price is the same and costs are the same, profit margin will increase with sales volume. In MS case development costs increased, but their sales increased even faster. The relative prices of software are completely irrelevant in the case of software, because variable costs are approximately zero. If your program costs 100000$ to develop and the average market price for such software is 100$, your margin will be 0% at 1000 copies sold and 10% at 110000 copies sold. Yes, the margins can fluctuate wildly in the market, but my guess would be the averages are consistent with other industries. But Microsoft's margines are far from average, because they are a monopoly.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    45. Re:About time... by sfjoe · · Score: 1

      Thankfully, Microsoft's success in having become 'the establishment' will make it very hard for them to acquire street cred

      No, it won't. In the USA, anybody with a sufficiently large marketing budget can become 'cool'.

      --
      It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
    46. Re:About time... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1
      Apple Macintoshes, on the other hand, achieve their coolness by actually being exclusive.

      Wow! Then we who use Linux must be really, really special! Now all we need to do is to get Tux looking cooler! Somebody get the penguin some XTreme-looking RayBans stat!

      --
      That is all.
    47. Re:About time... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Now all we need to do is to get Tux looking cooler!

      Well, that and raise the price of Linux so that it exceeds the per unit cost of Windows. Ideally, make it as expensive as a Macintosh. Then we'll see Linux be simultaneously cool and popular on the desktop.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    48. Re:About time... by t0ny · · Score: 1
      Look up "enterprise" at dictionary.com. Definition #2 is "A business organization."

      Meaning that, if MS is going to be an enterprise software company, they are focused more on selling things TO enterprises. Since little Billy can use wordpad or whatever to type his report, he doesnt have as great a demand for a word processor as a secretary who needs to type letters or reports every day. Likewise, little Billy probably wouldnt find a use for spreadsheets or database software (Excel or Access), or even slideshow presentations or enterprise email clients (there's that word again), like Powerpoint or Outlook.

      Little Billy can probably get by just fine with Wordpad and Outlook Express, which are included with Windows. Thus, MS Office DOES meet the definition of Enterprise software.

      --

      Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.

    49. Re:About time... by benzapp · · Score: 1

      If you think the music industry today fosters fucked up, unique music, you must have missed the 80's...and 70's...and 60's...

      When people say the "post-war world" they are referring to post-WWII. What war did you think I was talking about, the Gulf War?

      The fashion trend I am referring to is the one which began AFTER World War II, including the decades you mention.

      --
      I don't read or respond to AC posts
    50. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      Haven't been to a post-secondary institution lately, have you?

      --
      It's been a long time.
    51. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      Sobe has marketing? I've never seen a single ad anywhere...Where are they? What do they look like?

      I just started drinking Sobe one day because it was the first pina-colada type drink I found out there, and the obsession just grew from there. :D

      --
      It's been a long time.
    52. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      I'd say the fact that the last decade plus change has only harboured commercial, sterile, assembly-line style music renders the entire arguement moot. Back in the day they did foster fucked up unique music. These days, they aren't even on the ball enough to make that, so they churn out Britneys, Cristinas, and other blonde bimbos singing a certain brand of "alternative" pop. Might explain why their profits have been dropping so severely...

      --
      It's been a long time.
    53. Re:About time... by Spoing · · Score: 1

      "Sobe yourself" is the slogan.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    54. Re:About time... by t0ny · · Score: 1

      lets try really hard to make even LESS sense in our next post, shall we?

      --

      Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.

    55. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      The jabberwocky climbs througout our dreams, with teeth that knash, and claws that catch, and vorpal blades which kick your ass. It jams your thoughts like false memories of a better tomorrow from which you hail the deadly masters of hope to whom you forgive all trespasses. This is the end of apocolypse. This is hell on earth. Dream, forevermore.

      Awaken.

      --
      It's been a long time.
    56. Re:About time... by t0ny · · Score: 1
      You have just crossed the boundary between the nonsensical and the gay.

      Congratulations.

      --

      Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.

    57. Re:About time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you mean OC as in "Our Compliments"? That's the house brand at IGA/Sobey's. PC is "President's Choice", the house brand at Loblaws related stores (No Frills, Fortino's). At least, that's the way it is in Ontario where Sobey's merged or partnered with IGA. I don't recall if Sobey's used President's Choice instead of Our Compliments back East.

      For those not familiar with the names, Sobey's is not related to the aforementioned Sobe, for which I have never seen an ad either, but I have never felt embarassed to be seen drinking Sobey, RC, PC, or Life (RC/Cotts rebranded for SDM).

    58. Re:About time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He did what you asked, made less sense in his next post.
      His previous post made sense to me. The context in which you used "enterprise software" in yoru preceding post is not consistent with the definition of enterprise software taught in post-secondary institutions. The way you define it is like taking the words post and office and defining post office as a clerical workplace for long upright wooden structures.

  2. Newest 24 by FannyMinstrel · · Score: 5, Funny

    The newest 24 preview has Jack sitting infront of a 17" PowerBook, with a G5 in the background. They both look amazing. What would microsoft do? Have a WindowsXP box sitting on the desk, with him holding it up, looking at the camera and saying "For all you security needs, use windows" and promptly proceeds to blast a cap in it's ass.

    1. Re:Newest 24 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Yeah, a bit of a stretch. On Thursday night, ER not only showed the iPod but even gave it a one-liner...something like "It's an iPod, plays digital music". Too early in the day to remember the actor's name; same guy who played Jobs in the movie from a few years back.

    2. Re:Newest 24 by sacherjj · · Score: 0, Troll

      No, he would have another person with an Intel box that completes the task faster and the world blows up because Macs can't keep up. :)

    3. Re:Newest 24 by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Informative

      Noah Wylie

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    4. Re:Newest 24 by dootbran · · Score: 1

      Eh hem... There WAS a G5 in the background.

    5. Re:Newest 24 by sacherjj · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yes, and tests have shown that a PC purchased with the same amount of coin will beat it. Hence, my comment.

    6. Re:Newest 24 by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 4, Funny

      And what tests would these be? The throw-as-far-as-you-can test in the latest issue of Czech Computing Monthly?

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    7. Re:Newest 24 by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bleah, that's just silly.

      An Opteron can clock no *higher* than 2GHz, no different than a G5. Architecturally an Opteron is very similar to a G5, more similar to a G5 than a P4, except that the G5 has a more efficient SIMD unit.

      An Athlon64 does clock higher than a G5 so on a basic Apples to apples comparison will perform higher... but an Athlon64 also cannot be put into a dual system, and still has a weaker SIMD unit, so it all pans out.

      Every system has a merit, and the mere existence of competition drives performance up. Without AMD, Intel would not drive the P4 nearly so hard. Now without Intel+AMD, IBM would not drive the PPC 970 so hard, and vice versa. Everyone has a role to play, and dismissing one of the actors only does your own party a disservice. Competition serves the consumer and customer, not slavish loyalty or fanboyism.

      I *welcome* every advance in the PC world because it drives Apple harder to compete. In reflection, if you prefer the AMD, you should similarly welcome every innovation and release from Apple and Intel to drive along AMD, or Apple and AMD to drive along Intel.

      --

      GPL Deconstructed
    8. Re:Newest 24 by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      Noah Whyle played Steve Jobs?

      Damn, I must have been not paying attention that day.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    9. Re:Newest 24 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...or EVER had a girl.

    10. Re:Newest 24 by mekkab · · Score: 1

      Dewd, you weren't!!!
      ANthony Michael Hall played Bill Frickin' Gates!

      I guess you don't watch that much tv.

      --
      In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    11. Re:Newest 24 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Too many retakes involved, due the blue screens, windows messaging serveice pop-up spams, worm-induced reboots, and the occasional 'explorer.exe has caused an illegal operation.." error that noone could explain anyhow. Perhaps this is why we don't see too many Mickysoft product plaements in movies and TV.

    12. Re:Newest 24 by Robotech_Master · · Score: 1

      Scenes we'd like to see...

      Jack Bauer stalking through CTU, glaring at each computer monitor, then arresting anyone using Windows for treason...

      If only he'd done that in the first place, he could have saved himself a lot of grief in the first season!

      --
      Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
    13. Re:Newest 24 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your clocking comparison is worthless. Opterons consistently kick G5's in the pants. I care more about performance than clock. Most sensible people do. That's why people still use alphas.

    14. Re:Newest 24 by Epistax · · Score: 1

      How could Microsoft NOT be cool? It's on slashdot every day!

    15. Re:Newest 24 by ahbe · · Score: 1

      Damn, that's sad. Your right. Maybe not 'cool' but Microsoft is on Slashdot every day. I guess we just love to hate Microshaft. It's almost like a past time for us. Dare I say a religion? OOohh look shinny! ....... (we're so easily distracted)

    16. Re:Newest 24 by BurKaZoiD · · Score: 1

      wtf is 24, and who is jack? seriously. I don't know.

      --


      Spread the RC luvin'
    17. Re:Newest 24 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Try again.

      Watch the keynote. They put a dual Xeon on the same screen, and the G5 was twice as fast at least.

    18. Re:Newest 24 by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      At least get his name right.It's Wyle. I guess he's the new Ipod spokesman. I saw that episode, and the obvious Ipod marketing made me sick. They practically devoted a whole plot thread to it.

      I'd like to know the story behind that. Was it an outright marketing sell-out or is the writer just an Ipod fan? Since it added nothing whatsoever to the story I strongly suspect that apple paid a lot of mony for those scenes.

      I realize that his character is supposed to be rich, but carrying around an Ipod (and 20k in cash in his pocket) in an active war zone in Africa seems a bit far-fetched to me.

      Frankly, I don't really care when advertisers pay for elements that are essentially already in the script. It's when the advertisers start negotiating for the contents of the story that a line seems to be crossed, IMO.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    19. Re:Newest 24 by RighteousFunby · · Score: 1
      On Thursday night, ER not only showed the iPod but even gave it a one-liner...something like "It's an iPod, plays digital music".


      In Britain, that episode will have to be edited for the ITC to allow broadcast:

      No undue prominence may be given in any programme to a commercial product or service. In particular, any reference to such a product or service must be limited to what can clearly be justified by the editorial requirements of the programme itself. An important practical yardstick is that no impression be created of external commercial influence on the editorial process. In no circumstances may the manner of appearance of a product be the subject of negotiation or agreement with the supplier. Branded products should not, as a general rule, be referred to in audio by brand name, or shown in close-up or from an angle which displays the branding to best advantage, or for any significant length of time.


      From http://www.itc.org.uk/itc_publications/codes_guida nce/programme_sponsorship/Section_16.asp
      --
      If you're happy and you know it read my blog
    20. Re:Newest 24 by rspress · · Score: 1

      Jack should keep using his Macs and let the terrorist use Windows boxes. Maybe the terrorist could use Windows to make a virus or Trojan horse that takes advantage of security holes in the OS that would costs businesses and governments all over the world billions and billions of dollars! What....it has already been done? Well who said Hollywood uses original ideas.

    21. Re:Newest 24 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > wtf is 24, and who is jack? seriously. I don't know.

      Clearly you don't know Jack.

      Seriously, when you don't know something, isn't your first response to check it out on Google? Or do you just walk around with *this* face, saying `I don't understand`?

    22. Re:Newest 24 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The funny thing is there is a great reason for product placement of apple products in movies and television shows. First of all it is the only computer that you can tell what it is just by looking at it from any angle. take an Imac for instance. lookat at it from the back side front top vwhatever you like, and it's still and imac. take any PC and if you look at it from anything but front on, you will not be able to distinguish one generic grey box from the other, you don't have a clue what OS it's running, and you don't know it was IBM that put it together. so the logical thing to do, if you don't want to be shooting the screen of a computer, wich dosn't exactly turn out that well if you've seen it on the tv (annoying as hell scan lines) you use a mac, and shoot from any angle you please.

    23. Re:Newest 24 by rat7307 · · Score: 1

      Anthony Michael Hall played Bill Frickin' Gates!

      But did he sound like a muppet on helium like the real BG????

      Have yet to see POSV...

      --
      Burma?
    24. Re:Newest 24 by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      How about dual Opterons?

      Besides, I remember reading about that test -- yes, an optimized version of a benchmark WILL work faster than a generic version. I'm shocked. SO shocked, in fact, that I'm not really shocked at all...

      --
      It's been a long time.
    25. Re:Newest 24 by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      Naw...there's proof that we should hate MS.

      Also, there isn't really too much in terms of "they should surely be put to death" in the hate MS department. Religions, as a general rule, have to order the deaths of at least SOME innocent people Otherwise they aren't religions.

      I have to admit though, since I started using Win2k, I haven't really been as angry about the MS monopoly. I mean, sure it sucks and should be stopped, but at least they aren't suing 12 year olds or running sweatshops or trying to become police by bribing politicians...

      --
      It's been a long time.
    26. Re:Newest 24 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Gee, I look at my times on Seti@Home, and only the multi-processor Alphas and IA64s have better average times/unit - and I have a single processor.

    27. Re:Newest 24 by BurKaZoiD · · Score: 1

      isn't your first response to check it out on Google?

      nope.

      --


      Spread the RC luvin'
    28. Re:Newest 24 by M-G · · Score: 1

      I'd like to know the story behind that. Was it an outright marketing sell-out or is the writer just an Ipod fan? Since it added nothing whatsoever to the story I strongly suspect that apple paid a lot of mony for those scenes.

      Wouldn't be the first time NBC has placed computer products in their shows. A couple of years ago, Computer Associates products were all over the place.

      ER: In the background someone would be pushing a wheeled cart with a big box, with 'Computer Associates' printed in big letters on the side. Sitting next to the (Gateway) computers in the ER, there would be boxes for CA products, such as Brightstor. As though they'd leave their boxes of software out in public, and there would be a copy of an enterprise backup product sitting at a non-IT workstation.

      Just Shoot Me: There were always boxes of CA products in Jack's office. It made a touch more sense that something like that might be found in the private office of the boss, but given the obvious placement in ER, I suspect it was a plant.

    29. Re:Newest 24 by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 1

      Opterons consistently kick G5s in the pants? I want to know more, please :)

      --

      GPL Deconstructed
  3. My Karma wasn't that good to begin with by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

    so here goes: In Soviet Russia, products place you!!

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  4. Reminds me of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those progressive 'teen' ads

  5. Yet.. by the+uNF+cola · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yet all we see it in is TechTV and the 7o'clock news due to the latest virus issue. :\

    --

    --
    "I'm not bright. Big words confuse me. But Wanda loves me and that should be enough for you." - Cosmo

    1. Re:Yet.. by zer0harm · · Score: 1

      speaking of which... there's a new critical update for IE6 if you haven't got it yet...

    2. Re:Yet.. by __past__ · · Score: 4, Informative

      Don't bother... There are ~30 critical updates for IE that you'll still be missing.

      --
      Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
    3. Re:Yet.. by zer0harm · · Score: 1

      M$ - that's not cool :( Thanks for the link! I'm going back to Opera right now!

  6. wassup?? by zer0harm · · Score: 1, Funny

    they're already cool... Word

  7. Cool can't be manufactured by maffstephens · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they try, they'll just end up like an embarrassing dad - hip and trendy, age 45. Thinks he's the coolest dancer on the dancer floor...

    --
    Programming with a dose of satire: http://www.SoftwareReality.com
    1. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by lateralus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I almost spilled coffee on the floor via my nose when I read the title. "Cool" is manufactured, mass produced and marketed every day. Did you think that the kids decieded that "Nike" is cool all by themselves? Who told them that "British Knights" is in/out? Get real, "Cool" is what's on the self with the biggest glossy poster.

      --
      If you outlaw the law, only criminals will have laws
    2. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by rokzy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      on the "dancer floor" ?

      well, at least you sound hip and trendy ;-)

    3. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Tirel · · Score: 0

      really? american megacorporations seem to be doing it pretty well.

    4. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Nodatadj · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cool can be manufactured. Witness things like Nike Air trainers, smoking, Levis 501 jeans. The difference is that these things are aimed at the younger market, people who are desperately trying to find their place, so don't want to do or say anything that would alienate them from their peers.

      Computers on the other hand are not exactly the sort of thing that people get worried about. You don't have kids going home and crying to his dad because some of the kids in school laughed at him because he didn't have some cool make of computer. (Well, geeks might, but we already know they're not the exact epitomy of coolness).

      So, yeah, I'll agree with your outcome, even if I don't necessarily agree with your original statement. Still, we'll get to laugh at the dad thinking he's cool. Like we can do with McDonalds - No really, its more fun to go and dance outside a McDonalds than it is to go to a nightclub, no it is...

    5. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by hajejan · · Score: 1

      Obviously, you are not a PR professional.

      Of course cool can be manufactured. In fact - the only way to be 'cool' is to consciously work towards the goal of being cool.

      --
      The Mini Repository - more links
    6. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like how I feel about Windows XP's Luna interface. Grandad's attempt to be fashionable.

    7. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Nodatadj · · Score: 1

      In small circles "cool" comes about naturally. Adidas during the mid 80s in small areas of New York. But large corporations have "Cool hunters" whose job it is to hang around these areas, and look and see what is cool, and what isn't, and then they manufacture it on a large scale, across a country, across the globe.

    8. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Well that is partially true. But Cool is often set by who has the most lookup to. If these select few get this idea from seeing the adds then yes. But sometimes what is cool happens just because they liked it. Nike is cool because all the sports people ware them, the advertisements just show that they do. So the kids who look up to the sports people see that Nike is cool. Now this works as well for computers. Lets say you looked up Google and you see them as the king of system administration and running a dependable site, now you see that Google is running Linux. So Linux is naturally cool. Yahoo is less cool then Google and Yahoo is using FreeBSD so FreeBSD is less cool then Linux. (This was a small scale example, to explain the point Linux Coolness v.s. FreeBSD Coolness is not dependent on Yahoo and Google),
      Or lets look at Cars why are Porsche cooler then Catilac they are both the same price and the Catilac has far more advertising. But the movie stars and all the people we tend to look up to have the Porsche so the Prosche seems cool.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    9. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by zdislaw · · Score: 1
      "Nike is cool because all the sports people ware them, the advertisements just show that they do."

      OK. So what do you call "all the sports people ware (sic) them" if not advertising? The athletes are getting paid to wear them. That is advertising.

      There is no difference these days between a standard 30 second spot, product placement on a tv show or in a movie, and an athlete wearing a particular brand of shoe. You're getting adtertised to and you don't even know it. That is the ultimate success of marketing. Sucks doesn't it?

      I suggest the red pill.

      --
      bad sig...no donut.
    10. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by zdislaw · · Score: 1
      "geeks might, but we already know they're not the exact epitomy of coolness"

      So, if I were in marketing I would start trying to figure out how to make geeks represent cool. I think they already are, it's just too early in the morning to think of any examples.

      Those commercials where the geek is trying to explain how the new tech is so cool and nobody understands what he's talking about until he mentions how much money they will save is one that occurs to me. But like I said: too early in the morning.

      --
      bad sig...no donut.
    11. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cadillacs aren't cool because your grandfather thought they were cool. Anything old people think is cool automatically isn't. The least cool people on the planet, though, are suburban housewives. That's just the way it works.

    12. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by j0e_average · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some things are "cool" for no other reason that they run counter to the mainstream. Apple has a throng of devotees partially because they aren't Microsoft.

      Add to this the fact that Apple produces kick-ass products and you can see why they remain cool. They've demonstrated that they aren't a passing phase.

      Microsoft can pay all of the money in the world and still not (and won't) buy that kind of following.

      Plus, you don't see Apple pushing the issue with DRM and all of that other bullshit. Once again they are counter (cool) to the mainstream (dud).

    13. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by NevermindPhreak · · Score: 1

      if this were true, then nike would have "stayed cool", or fila, or gap, or bum, or IOU, etc. etc. marketing can bring a product into the top of "coolness", but it usually only stays there if the product itself is actually better than the rest of the competition (or, in microsofts case, you can muscle out the competition). but if a product is marketed to look way more cool than it could possibly be, then it just looks retarded. take those nokia n-gage advertisements, if youve seen them. everyone my age feels that thats just coming off as looking retarded by its ads.

    14. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by DarkSarin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      hmmm....
      I think I agree with the grandparent in this case--cool is manufactured. If you think all the sports people wear Nike because they are a better or cooler shoe, then you are mistaken. Nike is worn by them because Nike gives them shoes, or pays them to wear them. Why else then do entire teams commonly wear the same exact brand of shoe?

      Your example with Porsche and Cadillac (BTW, mine is the correct spelling), is even more spurious--Cadillac doesn't TRY to be cool: they aren't in that market. Caddies are meant to be elegant, classy, and sophisticated, not cool. You will further notice that Porsche and Cadillac don't even market to the same people. Nor should they.

      All that said, I do agree with the idea that if you see XYZ company running Linux or BSD or MACOSX, then you will tend to like that OS more. Unfortunately, it only works for us nerds, geeks and the nerkles. Jane Doe doesn't get it, and this is something even M$ doesn't seem to understand (although they, of all people, should), because Jane Doe doesn't even realize that the people on the show or in the movie are using a particular type of computer. To her, its just a computer.

      Take my wife, as an example. The ONLY reason she knows ANYTHING about linux is because I use it at home--at some of her software doesn't run under linux. If it did, she wouldn't even care as much as she does. To her, as long as the sorry computer is working, it doesn't matter what it looks like.

      Most people don't know that they aren't looking at a windows box. Why not? Because to them, it's not about the OS, its about what they can do with the machine. Will their favorite software work? No? Then they take it back. Can they surf the net and drool over pr0n? yes? Then they keep it.

      The sad truth is that this won't work for M$ for the same reason that most people don't know much about linux and digital freedom--Americans don't CARE! The irony of it all is that M$ will be able to point to the stable marked and claim that its a result of their advertising, and unless they do some real market research they won't ever know.

      ("Hi, this is Cindy, and I would like to ask you a few questions about technology on television. Do you have a minute to spare? [this is where most people hang up] Yes? Good. In the most recent episode of Seinfeld what type of computer was he using?" At this point the person starts to break out in a sweat, having forgotten if they watched the show. After a minute they decide they did, but they really can't remember anyone using a computer, so they say the first thing that comes to mind, "I think it was a Dell." This is of course, wrong, as it was probably a Sony Vaio or something similar, but 'Cindy' doesn't care, she marks the little box that says 'windows boxen', and thanks them for their time, but only after asking about 300 other questions that take "only a minute" of their time.)

      I imagine that the real strength of linux is that eventually it will allow Dell to put out "Dell Linux", and then you will have "Sony Linux" and "AOLinux" and maybe even "Barbie Linux" (with unrealistic images of women portrayed prominently so that another generation of young females can be ruined by the unrealistic ideal), which would be closely related to "Playboy Linux", and "Hustler Linux", but wouldn't sell quite as well.

      See those things will be what wins the OS wars, because M$ will never allow enough control of windows to slip away for that type of branding, but Linux invites it.

      No, M$ is doomed to believe they won this "cool campaign", without ever knowing that 90% of the population doesn't CARE!

      (Okay, now that I'm done with my soapbox, does any one else want to borrow it?)

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    15. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by SkArcher · · Score: 1

      All of what you say is true, which makes me wonder why MS feel the need to bother - they are the only feasable choice for a home user PC (well, if you want to play games on it anyway, and lets face it, most Home PC's are prolly bought for kids) - so why does MS feel the need to go for looking cool? Threatened by Apple? Linux?

      --

      An infinite number of monkeys will eventually come up with the complete works of /.
    16. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Viceice · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft can pay all of the money in the world and still not (and won't) buy that kind of following.

      I dunno about a "cool" following, but their money can sure buy a following none the less. How else do you explain their legion of MCSEs?

      --
      Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
    17. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

      Form factor of Apple products is often cooler. Microsoft pushes computing for the masses at a low cost, just like McDonalds pushes cheap junk food.

      It's hard for them to be cool when they don't make many cool physical products. When they do release a consumer they're often ugly. Look at the XBox, a big fat console with black and green colour scheme (not cool). Tablet PCs, they might be a neat form factor but they still look like half a laptop.

    18. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey! CD based Linux distros are cool! Just ask anyone when you pop in a Knoppix CD into their computer after it starts blue screening on startup.

    19. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      > Look at the XBox, a big fat console with black and green colour scheme (not cool).

      Look at the Matrix, a movie series featuring big fat computers with a black and green colour scheme (cool).

      Interesting one, that.

    20. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by rokka · · Score: 1

      (Well, geeks might, but we already know they're not the exact epitomy of coolness). Eeh? Ever heard of a movie about a hacker named neo?

      --
      I could be wrong. I'm always wrong...
    21. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a few geeky commercials I like. I enjoyed the 'magic server pixie dust' series and I love the HP commercial where a huge arrow cursor drags the bad guy through the snow to the back of a waiting paddy wagon. See, we're cool!!

    22. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by PepperedApple · · Score: 1

      I agree completly, one of my friends, who is actually quite intelligent, wanted to know where to buy Windows XP for the Mac.

    23. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

      But the Matrix has PVC catsuits, XBox doesn't :)

    24. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Tokerat · · Score: 1

      No really, its more fun to go and dance outside a McDonalds than it is to go to a nightclub, no it is...
      Quothe Wesley Willis:
      Rock and Roll McDonalds! Rock and Roll McDonalds! Rock and Roll McDonalds! Rock and Roll McDonalds!
      R.I.P.
      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    25. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      Your other points notwithstanding, Apple does a significant amount of marketing, and has for a long time. The coolness of corporations is manufactured, always. Apple has just succeeded in making some people think they feel that way 'just because'.

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
    26. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Nodatadj · · Score: 1

      He wasn't exactly cool when he was a hacker.
      He was cool cos he could jump over large buildings and do kung fu.

    27. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by secolactico · · Score: 1

      Eeh? Ever heard of a movie about a hacker named neo?

      HA! Do you think that what made him cool was the fact that he was a hacker?

      Hackers better start kung-fu-ing bad guys and dodging bullets if they aspire to be "Neo-cool". Either that or be as good looking as Carrie-Ann Moss in a catsuit.

      BTW (and off topic): Agent Smith was the coolest char in "reloaded". That IMHO, of course. Then again, I think Darth Vader kicks ass, if only because he uses the force to choke underperforming underlings. It might be that I have something for the bad guy... but that's just me.

      --
      No sig
    28. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to work with apples. Your leetest attitude worked maybe in 91. But these days both computers do fairly much the same thing. Its only a matter of degree now.

      I frankly got tired of retooling every other year because apple suddenly decided the thing EVERYONE was working on was no good. You just can not do that. It takes about 2 years to make a decent sized application that does what you want it to. MS has done what we needed it to do. Stay compatable enough that it doesnt take me 10 months just to rearc my program so it just runs. I am willing to BET money on that apple within the next year or so will screw everyone again. But all the apple acolytes will take it in the ass gladly and ask for another.

      The shifting sands of apples platform are what drive the people away that need to be there, the developers. When apples sdk was costing 20k, MS had a 'ok' one that did the job for 500 bucks. That rather sets the bar high for making software. Oh they have learned and are giving more away now. But they messed up BIG time. It was right around when 95 came out that they really lost.

      So you end up with people who are leet or think the thing looks pretty. Wow that was the group I ALWAYS lothed when I was in highschool.

      Now I am not saying that MS platform is better. I am saying drop the attitude. Be realistic MS dominates this industry for one reason only WE put them there. Apple wasnt doing the job and was causing us a big ol headache. So we picked a different company. Personaly I think MS has handeled success much better than Apple ever did. Apple got lazy and decided to stick it to everyone. That is why comodity parts for IBM clones are the all the rage right now (and have been for about 15 years). If MS starts playing the same sort of lock out games with the hardware that Apple did you will see them come down hard.

      I can hear one of your arguments now "Buh buh, Apple is so much more stable". Guess you missed the Apple clone wars. There were some FLAKEY computers out there. It didnt have much to do with the OS. But just the fact that bad hardware makes bad computers. Its easy to make stable software if you only have 1 or 2 computers to write for. But when you have 5000 different kinds to write to its a bit harder. Oh and not everyone buys the best parts. They buy the cheapest parts.

      Compairing the MS market and the Apple market is very missleading do you see? Apple want to move hardware units. MS wants to sell more copies of the OS. You are compairing a hardware company to a software company.

      And do you really think MS is a passing phase? You will see DRM hit the market with a thud and crickets cheerping. NO one will want it. They will be like 'whu' why would I want that? Oh sure some will buy it the rest will just move on and keep on ripping mp3's and watching movies and playing video games. Also MS is listening to its market. It doesnt just make shit up. Apple has the tendancy to do that. Oh they are both guessing and both get it right once and awhile. But both have the sense to drop it once they figure it out that no one wants it.

      Also do not underestmate the power of decent advertising. Hell apple pulled it off. They got some slick comercials that tell nothing really about the computer but just make it 'look' cool.

      Also before you go to far overboard with your MS rant think about this. Did you know one of the biggest selling pieces of software ever on the mac is a MS piece of software? It SOLD macs at first...

    29. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by venicebeach · · Score: 1

      I don't think product placement works on the premise that the viewers will explicitly remember which shows the particular products were placed in. I think the idea is to affect the formation of implicit associations between the product and some situation or feelins. This can work largely unconsciously. You don't need to remember that Seinfeld used an Apple for the experience to affect the nebulous semi-conscious feelings you have when you see the shiny Apple logo next time.

      Part of the power and danger of this technique is that it can bypass our conscious reasoning about the product.

    30. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by midknight32 · · Score: 1
      Some things are "cool" for no other reason that they run counter to the mainstream. Apple has a throng of devotees partially because they aren't Microsoft.

      Add to this the fact that Apple produces kick-ass products and you can see why they remain cool. They've demonstrated that they aren't a passing phase.

      Microsoft can pay all of the money in the world and still not (and won't) buy that kind of following.

      Plus, you don't see Apple pushing the issue with DRM and all of that other bullshit. Once again they are counter (cool) to the mainstream (dud).
      I would think a little more than partially my friend. I'm relatively agnostic but i can tell you which of my computers I get upset about when something goes wrong and it sure isn't my windows machine that I hand-tooled. A lot of Apple-fanatics take pride in not using MS, even when MS actually does something better.

      Many mac users also feel a lot more attached to their machines than most windows users do. A hgher percentage of them, for example, tend to name their machines. Until MS can get people to feel as strongly and personally about their products, they will never get the "cool" cachet.

      Insofar as kick-ass.. *shrug* sure some of the performa powerpc's had reliability issues and they has some issues with relative computer performance off and on, but insofar as the consistent attention to quality, finish, and thought shown in the design of the OS and hardware... heck yeah, by a long shot.

      Note: apple does use DRM... but they also try to strike a reasonable balance, and don't assume everyone is a thief.
    31. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by caffineJunkie · · Score: 1

      How can something that always hangs, that doesn't even try to be secure, and used by people who think command lines are too 80's ever be cool? It seems that Microsoft's definition of cool is, to market really crappy products for a whole crap-load of money, to a whole lot of people, who watch way too much TV.

    32. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by catbutt · · Score: 1

      Computers on the other hand are not exactly the sort of thing that people get worried about. You don't have kids going home and crying to his dad because some of the kids in school laughed at him because he didn't have some cool make of computer. (Well, geeks might, but we already know they're not the exact epitomy of coolness).

      Well "cool" has differences in meanings....I can look at a mac and say "that's cool, I want one". But that's not because I think I will be rejected by my peers for owning an out-of-style computer, it's simply because the mac has a certain funkiness that appeals to me -- independent of what other people think of it, or of me for owning it. The word "cool" is very commonly used in that meaning.

    33. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by petsounds · · Score: 1

      Just to correct a minor point, Seinfeld had a Macintosh on his desk during the entire run of the series, not a Sony Vaio. I have a feeling it is what Seinfeld probably uses in real life.

      But I agree, cool is manufactured by advertising agencies every day. That is the *purpose* of advertising agencies. It is an insidious art of mass hypnosis, and it usually works. You know why? Because the vast majority of people are NOT cool, and have no idea how to BE cool, but they desperately want to told how. In fact, most people would rather just be told how to do everything instead of make choices to define themselves, because they instinctually want to conform to a herd. But even people in the know can sometimes be coerced with a good ad campaign.

    34. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Nodatadj · · Score: 1

      > independent of what other people think of it, or of me for owning it.

      Thats probably because most people grow out of worrying too much about fitting in because they have formed an identity for themselves.

      Adolesence isn't that simple a time :)

      But also, it underlies my point that no-one really gives a toss what sort of computer you own, because its not the "cool" thing, its just something that people have and most people know that all computers do the exact same things, one way or another.

      Possibly this is the problem that adverts like "Dude, you're getting a Dell" face, because a Dell is identical to some homemade job...Maybe its not, one pair of jeans is fundamentally the same as the other, its just the little tag of material with a name on it that distinguishes cool from crap...

    35. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of Apple-fanatics take pride in not using MS, even when MS actually does something better.

      An interesting hypothesis. Perhaps someday Microsoft will actually do something better so we can test it.

    36. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by rarkm · · Score: 1

      I think you've hit the nail exactly on the head about the cluelessness of M$(except for the predictable and saddening attack on Barbie, who would be 7'4" tall if she were a real girl, how cool is that??)

      I agree with you that M$ doesn't get it, but disagree that they can't position themselves as "cool". They can buy it. Cool is a technique and a concept that has become commoditized and is now controlled almost entirely by mass marketers and the advertising industry. It took them a long time to figure out how to stick it in a cage and let it out on a leash, but they have.

      It seems unarguable that there have always been _people_ that were more socially adept, mobile and trend-setting, cooler, than average, but in societies in which 90% of the population was tied to agriculture with no mass media, this couldn't have been much of an advantage.

      "Cool" in connection with PRODUCTS, seemingly started in the musical world and grew to become an underground "us against the establishment" concept that went mass market in the roaring '20s. It was interrupted by World War II (I guess survival seemed more interesting then), and revived itself in the late '40s with Frank Sinatra, scat, jazz, bebop, and then the so-called counterculture.

      The consumer goods merchants, except for the music industry, largely ignored "coolness" until that point, figuring correctly that they didn't get it and couldn't control it. There was something of a sea change after that, however. With mass market and mass culture accelerating to swallow up nearly all traditional cultures, the incentive was huge to do so.

      Let's be honest with ourselves: "coolness" is now primarily a marketing tool, there's no more underground anywhere. Anything that looks remotely like a nascent counterculture movement is now set upon by the marketers, bought, cut up and hauled away for use in selling sneakers, pizza, cell phones or software.

      Any product or service can now position itself, with the help of marketers, as "cool". M$ need only fork over about a billion dollars/euros/yen (it hardly matters) and the funny ads will be filmed, the rock stars will be bought, the viral marketing teams will fan out, the product will be positioned, the T-shirts and mouse pads will be printed and passed out, the journalists will be bribed and the 'opinion leaders' and 'early adopters' will be drafted. Resistance is useless.

      --
      [Insert pretentious and semi-clever sig here: ______ ]
    37. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "wanted to know where to buy Windows XP for the Mac"

      Which shows that "cool" isn't a function of intelligence, either.

    38. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by DarkSarin · · Score: 1

      I don't think I said that they couldn't manufacture coolness. At least, I hope not.

      My point was that this is not the way it will work. You have to know your audience, and M$ is proving that they don't. In fact I explicitly stated that cool is manufactured. It's just that they are doing it wrong in this case.

      As for my "predictable and saddening attack on Barbie", I suppose that the cat's out of the bag--I am anti-Barbie. Call me a bigot. Please.

      No, actually, I think that Barbie is seen as very cool, but the way that she is made to look absolutely frightens me, because real females DON'T look like that, and little girls frequently think that they should, thus paving the way for all types of problems with self-esteem and whatnot.

      Many will hat me for that, but I think that it is true. Just the power of advertising done correctly. If the creator of Barbie had been as clueless as M$ about audience desire/knowledge, noone born today would ever hear the word Barbie.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    39. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by rarkm · · Score: 1

      There's no evidence that Barbie causes any loss of self-esteem, and self-esteem is overrated anyway.

      Kids don't care that Barbie looks funny. As my kids say patiently to me: "Dad. It's a toy."

      --
      [Insert pretentious and semi-clever sig here: ______ ]
    40. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note: apple does use DRM... but they also try to strike a reasonable balance, and don't assume everyone is a thief.

      As an example, they painted the sides of buildings with billboards encouraging us to "Rip Mix Burn", and got complaints from RIAA. Now that's Cool!

  8. Makes sense by sielwolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and isn't uncommon for any sort of brand to do this (Gateway had (still has) a deal with ER to have their machines prominently used). I really don't care either way. I just want movies to semi-accurately portray computers (although I didn't care for it, Matrix Reloaded did score marks for this) as compared to a lot of previous efforts (too many to mention). So if they do it from cmd.exe or sh, as long as it doesn't shake my ability to enjoy the movie, I'm fine with it.

    --
    What is music when you despise all sound?
    1. Re:Makes sense by rikun · · Score: 1

      I guess it makes sense in theory... but in all my time of watching ER, I've never noticed a Gateway computer. I think may have actually noticed a computer once or twice. The show isn't about the computers, and therefore I have no reason to examine them. I don't know, in a practical way, it really does seem stupid to waste so much money on something people don't notice.

    2. Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you call a movie that's WAY set in the future using something like ssh accurate? don't you think that we'd be beyond ssh and into something a bit more advanced?

      and how is it ralistic that someone's able to STILL exploit a security hole from the 2000 area when that shit BETTER be patched by the time the matrix happens?

    3. Re:Makes sense by Wandering+Idiot · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you talking about? That was a terminal in a power station within the Matrix, which has a technology level equivalent to present day.

      I liked Reloaded myelf, but if you want to complain about realism in the Matrix movies just take a look at the Machine's power-generation scheme...

  9. OMG WTF LOL BBQ by i_am_syco · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Can't M$ just leave Apple's limited marketshare where it is? :::sigh:::

  10. Why are they bothering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Judging by Microsoft's success with Phoenix Bios, soon Hollywood won't be able to buy a computer that can run any other operating system. Neither will anyone else.

  11. The Next Austin Powers Movie by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Funny

    I have it on good authority that Dr. Evil will be using BeOS.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    1. Re:The Next Austin Powers Movie by sacherjj · · Score: 2, Funny

      Does Mini-Me get to use WeeOS?

    2. Re:The Next Austin Powers Movie by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      Well, he did switch to the good side when he found out he was Austin's brother, so that makes perfect sense to me. Of course, he'd be using the new Zeta (www.yellowtab.com) distribution of BeOS.

      --
      Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
  12. Is that illegal??? by Mod+Me+God · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is illegal to place products in both terrestrial and satellite TV in the UK... although this story revolves around the US, this would have serious legal implications (based around subliminal advertising which the UK has very strong laws about) if these TV shows were ever exported.

    --
    --

    FreeNET user? Comfortable with the adverse selection?
    1. Re:Is that illegal??? by hajejan · · Score: 1

      "if these shows were ever exported"?

      I dunno where you have been hiding, but if you have seen, say, 24 (apple computers EVERYWHERE), or basically any other US sitcom, you will notice that product placement is everywhere.

      Here's a test for you: In an US series, try if you can spot either a Coke can or a Pepsi can. If you can spot one, I bet you a whole lotta money that you won't spot the other. Coincidence?

      HJ

      --
      The Mini Repository - more links
    2. Re:Is that illegal??? by Flopper · · Score: 1
      It is illegal to place products in both terrestrial and satellite TV in the UK...
      Erhm could you please explain this further? I don't get the point that this could be a real law in the UK.
    3. Re:Is that illegal??? by CountBrass · · Score: 1

      Huh? Which UK are you living in ? The only place there are such restrictions is on the beeb which is paid for by us taxpayers.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    4. Re:Is that illegal??? by mr_sas · · Score: 1

      yeah you're right, Calling smarties "candy covered chocolate" indeed.

    5. Re:Is that illegal??? by RighteousFunby · · Score: 1

      The parent is completely correct.


      See the Sponsorship code.

      I love the ITC. They're heartless bastards who don't let shit slip past their fingers.

      --
      If you're happy and you know it read my blog
    6. Re:Is that illegal??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See here:

      http://www.itc.org.uk/itc_publications/codes_gui da nce/programme_sponsorship/section_15.asp

      The point is: advertising is in adverts, not during programmes.

    7. Re:Is that illegal??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck off and die... see here:

      http://www.itc.org.uk/itc_publications/codes_gui da nce/programme_sponsorship/section_15.asp

      The ITC is clearly not the beeb, get this wrong and they get their licence gets revoked.

  13. Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by questamor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple have appeared, without payment or request, in thousands of productions. From 24 to Seinfeld, to just about any stock photography that has a laptop in it, it's Apple Apple Apple all the way. I think it's curious Microsoft need to -pay- to get their products in this same position.

    And as much as I'm a mac lover, it's amazing how LITTLE benefit it's done Apple. What's our market share now? :P

    1. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I think it's curious Microsoft need to -pay- to get their products in this same position.


      Take a look at a Mac: the computer case itself and the desktop. Now take a look at your average Windows box.

      Any questions?
      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by ErrorBase · · Score: 1

      besides the 'better looking anyway' part, the people responsible for pictures are mostly less IT savy creatives. Ever looked around in a place like that ? If it ain't Mac it probably is lost.

    3. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by hajejan · · Score: 1

      FOr the case of 24 - Okay, so Apple didn't pay for it. But it is worth noting that Apple did supply the systems at no charge. Which is cheaper for the production team than having to purchase machines.

      HJ

      --
      The Mini Repository - more links
    4. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by davie · · Score: 1

      Seinfeld's computer was a Mac until he struck a deal with Microsoft for the Windows 95 rollout, when it became a Windows PC. I'm not enough of a Seinfeld nut to know which episode featured the new computer for the first time, but if you look at the 95 or 96 season you'll notice the change.

      For what it's worth, I think I recall seeing him actually using the system only once or twice.

      --
      slashdot broke my sig
    5. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      Even if you consider supplying the systems technically does cost Apple a couple grand, it's still an incredibly cheap cost for advertising!

      --
      Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
    6. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by tb3 · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you read the article,you'll see that HP is in on this.

      Hewlett Packard, whose marketing department was described as being so inept that, "If they had to sell sushi, they'd describe it as cold, dead, raw fish."

      HP is so dull they make Gates and Ballmer look like MTV VJs in comparison.

      --

      www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance

    7. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by BensonLeung · · Score: 1
      No Mac has the "Striped Plastic" thing you are talking about anymore... at least in the last 4 years or so... so Apple agrees with you that stripes are Passe....

      As for your comment on brushed Aluminum...

      http://www.apple.com/powermac/

      http://www.apple.com/powerbook/

    8. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by BensonLeung · · Score: 2, Informative
      Seinfeld, for the first few seasons, had a Mac Classic. He used it in a couple of episodes actually... A little later on he got it replaced, but NOT with a Windows machine...

      He actually has (presumably his own) 20th Anniversary Macintosh ( a black flat panel Mac with a Bose sound system and cost $10,000 back in 1997 ). It was there till the series ended. He never had a windows machine on his desk.

    9. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if I use a mac I can look gay too?

    10. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by pVoid · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Yes. Mac is hardware. Windows isn't.

      Are you saying people use macs for free because they see Aqua?

      And are you saying with all the form factor mini ITXs out there, you're not going to find computers as cool as Macs?

    11. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by BensonLeung · · Score: 1
      I have no idea what point you are trying to make... the original parent's point was that generally there is an attention to detail in Apple's design (the Powerbooks and the iPod for example) that is significantly above the average among all the PCs you'll find out there.

      Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course, but in this case, Apple has done well to make their products instantly recognizable in movies and television...

      Its not impossible to build a PC or buy a PC that is on par with Apple's in terms of aesthetic, in my opinion, but Apple spends a great deal of time on the special touches on their systems...

      can you honestly find a laptop that can even remotely hold a candle to the 17" Powerbook? There must have been months of extra development time in getting that machine as thin and as light as it is. It is lighter, and probably smaller in almost every dimension than most 16" laptops out there...

      Apple goes as far as to make the experience of unpacking one of their machines really memorable and stylish... Anyone who's ever bought a mac or an iPod will know what i mean... just how they lay out the machine and its accessories in the box is so simple and yet so chic.

      I'm rambling. Needless to say, I don't doubt that you can buy or build a machine yourself that can match the Mac in terms of look... but it will most definitely lack Apple's attitude... its just that little extra that helps Apple's stuff transcend geek appeal and go into the area of being actually COOL.... i mean, 50 cent and Snoop Dog have an iPod...

    12. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by dema · · Score: 1

      It doesn't do much for Apple because people see the computers and have NO IDEA what they are. I guarentee half the people who see the machines in shows/ads/movies just assume they are running Windows (if they even think about it). And Microsoft needs to -pay- because their hardware isn't as attractive (:

    13. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Slack3r78 · · Score: 3, Funny
      HP is so dull they make Gates and Ballmer look like MTV VJs in comparison.

      What? Don't tell me you've never seen this video of the fearless leader Ballmer? Or perhaps this picture of Bill showing off his awesome fashion sense? I don't think you can get much cooler than those guys. ;)
    14. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I was replying to my parent post, who said:

      <quote>I think it's curious Microsoft need to -pay- to get their products in this same position.</quote>

      Take a look at a Mac: the computer case itself and the desktop. Now take a look at your average Windows box.

      Any questions?

      And saying his answer was not at all the answer, since a) we weren't comparing Windows vs MacOS, b) that there are at least *some* cool cases out there.

      My ultimate point is that people are deluding themselves if they think Mac is getting *free* advertising. Maybe after an initial trend of Hollywood clique'ism was set, that would be possible, but that's the whole point of the conversation anyways...

      PS. I don't think macs are ugly.

      -pVoid

    15. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by teamhasnoi · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      +1. My 15" PB shipped today. :)

    16. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by RumorControl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      From a production standpoint Macs have an advantage that PC's will have a hard time overtaking. If you are a prop master, you like Macs for three simple reasons:

      A: they look good just sitting there. it's a prop, that's all. and the audience can recognigize the "computer" aspect of it as well as the "new glitizy paperweight" without looking like several beige turds stacked on top of each other. Clearly our hero has his act togething since his computer looks so much better then ours

      B: They are very reliable. When you need them to perform in front of a camera, they do. back in the day of DOS, no one wanted a PC on the set unless you were trying to show frustration..

      C: not universal, but the "all in one" design had a lot to do with it. less parts to keep track of means less work for the propmaster. the SE30 was a revolution for the stage. it could fit in a little cardboard box and it didn't weigh a ton. The mouse you hired as the set designer could move it without calling for the gaffer. The iMac brought that back.

    17. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by davie · · Score: 1

      You're right, I guess I read too much into the presence of the Windows 95 box that appeared on the desktop next to the computer in a few episodes. Evidently the system that replaced the Classic was a Duo.

      --
      slashdot broke my sig
    18. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Knights+who+say+'INT · · Score: 1
      And as much as I'm a mac lover, it's amazing how LITTLE benefit it's done Apple. What's our market share now? :P In Stackelberg's model of duopolistic competition, there's a trade-off between market share and profitability.

      The small market share can be a deliberate choice, and its advantages can largely outweight the network externality issues. Macs are generally viewed as more expensive but more reliable machines for the non-technical user. Conversely, the "reliable" stigma allows them a bigger mark-up in their product line.

      The cool factor is just one of them, but it's an important one. How many professional musicians have you seen playing a Casio keyboard onstage? Yamaha makes some high-end synths perfectly suitable to the pro market, but they always seem to prefer Korgs. Expensive things are cool. How else can you explain the phenomenon of designer car worship?

    19. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And as much as I'm a mac lover, it's amazing how LITTLE benefit it's done Apple. What's our market share now? :P

      Apple has posted a profit for twenty out of the last twenty-two quarters. They're selling computers, both laptops and desktops, faster than they can make them.

      Market share doesn't mean a damn thing. Profitability is the only meaningful measure of company success, and Apple's got profits coming out of its ears.

    20. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by UserGoogol · · Score: 1

      I doubt that. (To pick an example...) For most years of Newsradio's run on NBC, it had generic looking Wintels on the desks. The last season, they inexpliably switched to Macs.

      There's no reason for that except that Apple must have contacted Newsradio during the hiatus. There was no other logical reason. In fact, you could probably argue it as a slight continuity error if you're going to nitpick.

      --
      "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
    21. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Joystickit · · Score: 1

      Actually apple pays a significant ammount to get their products placed in television and movies. They just don't want you to know that. They also have a whole department who works on product placement. They even have a website on it.

    22. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by prospero14 · · Score: 1

      If you RTFA, you will see that Microsoft is not paying for what's free to apple. From the article:

      Marketing experts... argue that the practice [of imbedding products] is legitimate because networks are prohibited from accepting money for product placements, and directors like having actual products in their shows because it makes the programs seem more authentic.

      Product placement is much more of a tacit agreement, a vicious circle whereby the show seems cooler becasue it features the product, and the product seems cooler because it's in the show. Or at least that's how the marketers of both hope things will work out.

      The article goes on to mention that sometimes companies agree to buy lots of advertising time in return for product placement, but giving explicit payment for placement is against the law.

    23. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by ElectricPoppy · · Score: 1

      I have four words for you: GO. TO. THE. GYM!

    24. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by sammy+baby · · Score: 1
      Apple have appeared, without payment or request, in thousands of productions.

      Right. That's why they have their own staff and budget specifically for product placement. She gets an occasional assist from the Tooth Fairy.

      Take the show Felicity. In one episode, a character waxes rhapsodic about his new iMac (back in the day when they came in flavors and didnt' look like table lamps. Shortly thereafter, he drops it, and it makes the kind of horrible echoing thwack anyone who has ever dropped an expensive piece of equipment knows so well. Not to worry, though: his friend knows someone who can fix it, and he's assured that he's an Apple Certified Technician!

      The first appearance of the Mac was merely annoying: the second, with the technican reference, was nauseating. I vowed that day never to by a Mac.*

      * This post typed on a 15" Ti Powerbook. Oops. So much for silly vows.
    25. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Kashif+Shaikh · · Score: 1

      In other words, Apple defines itself sexy, powerful, and commands attention(i.e. *NIX based).

      Windows is "too corporate" to be any of these. The only thing going to Windows is "market share" which isn't cool to anyone except shareholders.

    26. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by inertia187 · · Score: 1

      This looks like an Apple, to me (doctored (in Photoshop)).

      --
      A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
    27. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Canar · · Score: 1

      Not really. It could be any generic laptop. It's a dark gray colour. IIRC, most Apple laptops are much less generic than the picture you posted.

    28. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by murphyslaw · · Score: 1

      "They are very reliable. When you need them to perform in front of a camera, they do."

      Does anyone else remeber one of the first public peeks at Win98. If memory serves it blue screened while Gates was talking about it...

    29. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

      D. Much higher resale value after the show has wrapped. Whether the compy was bought by the production comppany or donated by Apple, someone get it at the end of the show, and any money derived rarely makes it back into the production budget.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  14. Only one way to be hip by shawkin · · Score: 1

    Pouty supermodel programmer spokespersons.
    While you wouldn't expect code written by a 17 year old Estonian supermodel with the intelligence of a bucket of creosote to function, this is Microsoft.

  15. McDonalds Cool New Image by Nodatadj · · Score: 1

    Most people I know who see the advert just fall around and laugh because its so pitfully bad. Its really clear they're jumping on a cool bandwagon, and falling off again.

    1. Re:McDonalds Cool New Image by Will2k_is_here · · Score: 1

      Kind of reminds me of the barq's hip hop image.
      "Your dog's off his hizzle, for shizzle, dizzle"
      "The man's got his hand up my ninny nitzo!"

  16. I'm surprised they haven't done this earlier. by StupidGoose · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that Microsoft will copy anything Apple does - a windowing system(yes, I know Apple didn't invent WiMP interfaces), the "ooh, plastic" look(MacOS X -> WinXP), etc. Apple have been doing this for almost ten years, remember.

    1. Re:I'm surprised they haven't done this earlier. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      XP is far more flexible in its UI customization than MacOS is. I use WindowBlinds, and I've used interfaces that Apple only dreams it could have.

      Besides, I could just as easily say that Apple copied Microsoft in making an OS that actually has preemptive, multithreaded processing. Up through OS 9, the Mac has used time sharing for its "multitasking".

    2. Re:I'm surprised they haven't done this earlier. by BensonLeung · · Score: 1
      Its impossible to say anybody copied anyone else with concepts like preemptive multitasking and memory management... these are concepts that have been part of computer science and operating system design for DECADES and that every CS student learns about...

      Human interface design, however, is something else entirely, in my opinion... there is still much innovation to be had in this area... its been a long time since anyone's released anything really revolutionary...

      I argue that because of Microsoft, many many steps back have been taken backward in interfaces... all starting with when they thought it was a neat idea to surf your hard drive with your web browser... been downhill ever since.

      Apple, on the other hand might be working on some pretty remarkable innovations, take Expose for example.

  17. I, for one, ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... welcome our hip Microsoft overlords.

  18. MS in South Park movie by mr.henry · · Score: 5, Funny
    I remember Gates and Windows had a great product placement in the South Park movie:

    Fucking Windows 98! Get Bill Gates in here! You told us Windows 98 would be faster, and more efficient, with better access to the Internet!

    As Gates tries to defend Windows, the General blows his head off. I thought that was pretty cool.

    1. Re:MS in South Park movie by Chronowerx · · Score: 1

      That has always stuck in my memory - I was in the cinema watching it, and 90% of the people in there cheered when that happened..... made me feel all warm inside. The other 10% were probably to old or young to get it, or busy groping each other on the back row :\

    2. Re:MS in South Park movie by Sunnan · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Didn't Preacher do that earlier?

    3. Re:MS in South Park movie by Qbertino · · Score: 1

      *Hologram of Kanada Invasion Plan (don't ask, watch the movie) starts malfunctioning, with random noise and Sadam Hussein pictures poping up*

      Redneck General (completely outraged, yelling):"That has to be this fucking Windows 98. Get me this Bill Gates."

      *instantly doors fly open, two natonal guards drag in a south park syle nerd clearly recognizable as Bill Gates and bring him before the General*

      General (yelling): "YOU said that Windows 98 would be better and that it would get me on the web faster."

      Gates (defensive, with soothing marketing tone of voice):"But it IS better! Over 4 million of our customers..."

      *BLAM!*
      (General shoots Bill Gates through the head with is Deagle)

      --
      We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    4. Re:MS in South Park movie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those quotes aren't even close to what's said in the movie. I can't remember em all perfectly, but the first one is

      "Fucking Windows 98! Get Bill Gates in hyah !("here" but said in the Eric Cartman sort of way)"

      I also like the:

      General: "...you will be operation Get-Behind-The-Darkies! Try to not get yourselves killed for god sake!"
      Chef: "Have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?"
      General: (Silent for a moment) "I don't listen to hip hop!"

      (I know those quotes aren't correct either, but hey, it's hard from memory).

    5. Re:MS in South Park movie by davesag · · Score: 1
      dude if you are going to re-quote movies get it right. listen for yourself. bill gates.wav

      took 2 seconds of googling to find that link.

      --
      I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
    6. Re:MS in South Park movie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is Bill Gates and Windows appearing in Preacher off topic in a thread about Microsoft product placement?

    7. Re:MS in South Park movie by Feztaa · · Score: 1

      Worst. Quote. Ever.

  19. ah remember us consumers? by linuxislandsucks · · Score: 1

    you know the people who want security fixed on windows and other issues fixed..

    --
    Don't Tread on OpenSource
  20. That'll be the day... by creamcracker · · Score: 1

    That not only Linux is present behind the Hollywood scene, but also features in popular TV series and movies...

  21. Microsoft to project themselves as "cool"? by Hackie_Chan · · Score: 1

    They're trying to make bald old white guys seem "cool" to the general public?

    Sheesh... Good luck with that! My guess is that they won't even top smoking cigarets.

    --

    What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
    1. Re:Microsoft to project themselves as "cool"? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      What if the old bald white guy goes and jumps around, hooting like a retarded orangatang in heat?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  22. ohh god by tokaok · · Score: 1

    all i could think about when i saw the headline was the ad on tv for CSI, one part says "We got the cool chicks" as they show a corpse on the table about to opened up. all that M$ needs to do now is get CSI to have them tape one of their users with their head thru a moniter as it BSOD them.

  23. it's more than just publicity by thermopile · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Microsoft has a lot more to do to present a "cool factor" than just get its hardware shown on popular TV shows in conspicuous places. Although there is probably an Apple rep on the site of "24" making sure that Apple logo is as blatantly obvious as possible, it wouldn't be the same with most of Microsoft's offerings.

    It has to look cool, which, IMHO, Microsoft has not grasped yet. A large part of the appeal -- and probably a good reason why the directors of 24 allow it -- of Apple is the cool factor. The hardware is slick, the buttons are shiny, and it doesn't look like most other computers out there.

    What product would microsoft have in its arsenal that could fill the above description?

    --

    "Diplomacy is something you do until you find a rock." --Richard Pound

    1. Re:it's more than just publicity by IRNI · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Another part of the beauty of 24 that some seem to miss is the good guys use macs, the bad guys use pcs. I think they were dells infact. :)

    2. Re:it's more than just publicity by gabeman-o · · Score: 1

      Hey, I can imagine more than a few ways for Microsoft to get this cool images without making any changes to its lineup. For example, if Bill Gates appeared in the next Big Tymers video dressed in FUBU, wearing a giant gold "M$" on a chain, and throwing money all over the place, I'd think he's cool. An imagine the inroads M$ would make in the urban markets.... suddenly having the latest version of Windows could get you street cred.

    3. Re:it's more than just publicity by Andrewkov · · Score: 1

      That's priceless! I can just imagine a hip-hop Bill Gates (Billy G for short), with big sunglasses, baseball cap on backwards, a big sports jersey and too-low pants. I'd love to see that!!

    4. Re:it's more than just publicity by Darby · · Score: 1

      I can just imagine a hip-hop Bill Gates (Billy G for short),

      Actually, to blatantly rip off someone's .sig:

      Jennifer Lopez => J. Lo
      Bill Gates => B. Gay

    5. Re:it's more than just publicity by ponxx · · Score: 1

      Personally i think it's simply a bad plan... In the consumer market, MS products appeal to your typical middle class family. The parent who think they get something sensible for their kids instead of a game-cube. If they start making their products look "cool" i think they'd open up a huge gap for another product (e.g. linux) to present itself as the sensible alternative where you can get your work done...

      Their most important market, the business world, is going to be even less impressed...

      I think they'll have to leave the cool to someone else (and i don't think it will work anyway)

      Ponxx

    6. Re:it's more than just publicity by blibbleblobble · · Score: 1

      "It has to look cool, which, IMHO, Microsoft has not grasped yet."

      Okay, let's jump into the conversation then: Microsoft doesn't make much hardware. They're never going to have product-placement when their software is being run on someone's beige-fantastic square box.

      As to what's on screen, photographers have never liked real software, because it doesn't photograph well. Compare the number of "uploading virus" in full-screen 36-point text in movies, as compared to the number of actual programs being used. Matrix was the exception, and that was for a technical audience.

      The most photogenic software for a film shoot is probably something based on one of the gnome-experimental setups, just because it's possible to put features on screen with 180-pixel wide translucent icons so easily, and to have them acutally work and do something. Likewise, the KDE toolbar can scale-up, combined with it's mac-like behaviour, and this is all easy to do. You don't need to write a special program that looks like a computer, you can just start with KDE and change a few settings.

      Need an alien-style clock? A toolbar which fits the film's colour-scheme? Need a computer which acts like the klingon ones (always works, survives abuse) or military ones (big high-contrast touchscreen buttons) or just looks so completely different from Windows that it could pass as an alien technology?

      And did I mention theming? Window-decoration? If you want a noticeable application running, you can hardly do better than designing your own bitmap borders for a window, and having them working reliably within hours, with real applications inside.

  24. Windows and Hardware by puregen1us · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But Microsoft makes very little hardware.

    Apple's cool comes from its superb hardware lineup. Nobody would choose any other laptop given the choice of an Apple powerbook and an equal PC one. The same holds for every other item they produce. The G5s look stunning and are too quiet to tell if they are on.

    Everybody who sees an iPod wants one, and they work fine with Windows.

    Microsoft con't itself up its credibility by showing Windows, it has to be in a cool computer, they need to team up with a Hardware manufacturer. Alienware do nice cases...

    Apple's OS might be great but how often do you really see what its doing on TV. Just a snap of a guy with a computer (albeit a tiny, thin laptop with a glowing apple on it), or a loading bar while the MacOS takes down Alien hardware through a non existant interface. ;)

    1. Re:Windows and Hardware by phoxix · · Score: 0, Insightful
      Nobody would choose any other laptop given the choice of an Apple powerbook and an equal PC one. The same holds for every other item they produce.

      I am greatly tired of such over-used cliches.

      My girlfriend has a PowerBook, and I have an IBM T30. There is no way on earth I would ever choose a flimsy PowerBook over my ThinkPad (which by the way, has the best keyboard-on-a-laptop ever)

      My girlfriend has an Apple mouse, you know, the overpriced oval shaped single button mouse. Are you going to tell me that hunk of junk is supposed to beat the far more elegant Microsoft Mouse?

      Would you really want one of apples overpriced/underfeatured Airport products over something with far more features, far less the cost, and the same ease of use from d-link?

      Let us put an end to this "Apple is automagically better" garbage. Sure Apple's products/projects are great, but it is an unneeded slap in the face to everyone else to assume there are inferior by default.

      Sunny Dubey

  25. I can see it now... by Viceice · · Score: 4, Funny

    (Place: Matrix Core, Time:Time? There is no time.)

    Neo: "Trinity, you hack in, I'll keep Agent Smith busy. How much time you need?"

    (Wack! Wack! Pow!)

    Trinity: (Looks at Micro$oft Windoze(TM) login prompt) "We're in."

    --
    Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
    1. Re:I can see it now... by Trolling4Dollars · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Damn! Two points for Viceice!

      --
      Un-news
    2. Re:I can see it now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DARKNESS. MAIN TITLES BEGIN, cue orchestra (Thus Spake Zarathustra). Low at first, the music gradually rises to the huge crescendo and the theater resounds with all the rattling power of THX, and we...

      BURN IN, BRIGHT LIVING COLOR:

      DAY

      The memorable scene from "2001 - A Space Odyssey", overhead shot of sub-human creatures throwing bones around the monolith...

      SUPER: In the beginning, we were crude, our tools were crude...

      FADE TO BLACK:

      SUPER: But time marches on. We evolve, our tools evolve...

      MATCH CUT TO:

      INT. CONFERENCE ROOM

      Overhead shot of 12 men in business suits, sitting around a conference table, laptops open in front of each. Earnest expressions on every face, intense concentration on the man at the head of the table.

      PERSPECTIVE SHIFT: down and around the table to center on the face of the man at the head of the table

      He rises and turns to the wall behind him. The wall is filled with elctronic equipment dominated by a huge 60 inch plasma screen, now dark.

      The man lifts a remote control control, points it at the wall and presses a button on the remote.

      PERSPECTIVE SHIFT: close-up on plasma screen, which flickers into life displaying...

      BSOD!!!

      DIRECTOR (O.S.)
      CUT! Cut, cut, cut! Reboot that goddamned Microsoft piece of crap, willya?
      Kill the damned orchestra! Sunuva bitch! more expletives deleted

      OK, OK, one more time, from the top.

      FLUNKY (CENTER, CLOSE-UP)
      Microsft Media Center scene... take 43!

  26. How could Microsoft be fashionable to Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    One way.

    Chapter 11.

    1. Re:How could Microsoft be fashionable to Slashdot? by sharkey · · Score: 1
      Chapter 11.

      Better yet: Chapter 7

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  27. Geek vs Cool by VEGx · · Score: 1

    makes sense! :-P you linux using geeks!

  28. mod parent up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is the most insightful post on this thrad yet!

  29. Fab Five to the rescue! by Trolling4Dollars · · Score: 5, Funny

    With style-retarded heads like Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, they've got a good way to go. The reason that Apple has the image it does is STEVE JOBS. Face it, whether you like him or not (personally I do) he is a stylish man. Back in the 80s he always wore those black turtlenecks and trendy glasses. He KNOWS what style is. Unless someone want's to get the guys from Queer Eye to do a makeover on Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, the business image is going to be hard to break. Besides, I can predict what's going to happen anyway. They will try to add coolness to their image and then proclaim success to the investors after six months regardless of the true outcome. Eventually everyone will want to look like Microsoft products because of the buzz surrounding the new look. The buzz that was self-perpetuating. This will work because most business folks don't have the slightest idea what style really is. They think "roughing it" is wearing a pair of khakis and a polo shirt to work on Fridays.

    --
    Un-news
    1. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 3, Funny

      So you're suggesting, "Apple Eye for the Windows Guys"? I don't see Bill in a black turtleneck and torn jeans. I don't see Balmer becoming a vegetarian.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    2. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by HangingChad · · Score: 1
      ...the guys from Queer Eye to do a makeover on Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer...

      I'd like to see the Queer Eye guys doing something else to Gates and Ballmer...something they've been doing to the public for years. Squeal like a pig, Billy!

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    3. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I find him less and less cool everyday. Mouthing off (see the Segway stories), relying on style solely instead of substance (the Cube)... there's a difference between being cool and being popular, and Jobs at this point is neither.

    4. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > They will try to add coolness to their image and then proclaim success to the investors after six months regardless of the true outcome.

      Sure, why should this be any different than any of their other statagies?

    5. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by naelurec · · Score: 1

      Mouthing off at Segway? Bah humbug! He was +5 Insightful. Quick wrap -- Segway execs invite Jobs to see their new innovative product. Instead of sitting back and letting Jobs provide insight into his experience in successfully launching innovative products, they tried to do a canned marketing presentation. If I recall correctly, Jobs claimed to have stayed up the night before thinking about all aspects of the Segway... Seems like the Segway guys (at that time) had a lot to learn about working with the titans. :)

      The cube -- ok .. so there was a failed product. Big deal. Get over it. Every company has them .. given the level of innovation that Apple churns out, its surprising they don't have MORE failed products.

    6. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 1

      Really, I need to post this again: Queer Eye + Geek Eye = ????

    7. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by Graff · · Score: 1
      The cube -- ok .. so there was a failed product.

      The funny thing is that people absolutely loved the cube. It didn't fail on its design or performance, it failed on its price point. It was just too expensive compared to biting getting a tower with the tower's better expansion options. If they could have sold the cube at 2/3 the price or so then it probably would have sold like crazy.

      People just weren't willing to pay the price for miniaturization that came with the cube. It was halfway between a laptop and a tower and suffered the disadvantages of both - the high price of a laptop and the non-portability of a tower.
      --
      Sapere aude!
    8. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always figured when I meet Satan, I want him to be wearing a black turtleneck not glasses and a bad haircut.

    9. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I don't see Bill in a black turtleneck and torn jeans."

      I don't see comic strips about the coolness of Bill

      Joy of tech

  30. Why don't choose movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bill Gates should show himself in "Freddy Vs Jason". Well... I would call it "Bill Gates Vs Freddy and Jason".

  31. Heh. by Kaemaril · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hmm. I for one think The Blue Screen Of Death deserves a guest shot on "Dead Like Me" :)

    1. Re:Heh. by sacherjj · · Score: 1

      Come on, they couldn't carry that many post-it notes with a fork lift. There would be ETDs all around the city. But, this opens a serious question. Are the true problems with Windows stability and virus propogration due to gravelings?

  32. Upload a virus to an alien spaceship!!! by NineNine · · Score: 1

    What MS needs to do is to get a spot in a movie where a MS product is used to upload a virus to an invading alien spaceship, causing the entire fleet to crash soon afterwards. That's why I bought a Mac in the first place!!

  33. Since when by snowlick · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since when was a massive omni-mega corp ever cool? They are currently the bully in the arena. Smaller companies that are more agile and willing to accept major risks will always come out on top as far as "cool factor" goes. That's the nature of the game. MS's reputation is all about ubiquity and uniformity - and image that they've crafted very carefully through the years.

    Sadly, MS will always win out by ripping off a smaller company's ideas and making knock-offs. I don't know why they wouldn't be happy with that. Let the other guy take the risk, and if it works - steal the idea! Let the other guy be cool, then emulate him. It's been working quite well for them, so who cares?

    --
    Crystal Meth: Would you ingest somthing made from a poisonous gas and an explosive metal? You do it every day -- Salt!
    1. Re:Since when by GoofyBoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Since when was a massive omni-mega corp ever cool?

      Take a look at anything that was cool in the past 20 years and either it is or it eventually had a big corporation behind it.

      Look at any popular music group/singer. Big corp behind them.
      Look at Nike/Adidas.
      Look at any hip/cool tv show or movie.
      Lots of sports teams or events have big corporations behind it.

      Can M$ buy cool? Yes and its been done many times before.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    2. Re:Since when by santos_douglas · · Score: 1
      You're absolutely right, big companies routinely achieve the 'cool' status, although I think you'll find it's much more difficult to 'buy' cool than you might think. Sure to some extenent every company 'buys' cool, advertising firms and products don't pay for themselves - but mostly it's about the effective use of those ad $$, not the amount. It also helps to have products that are themselves already fairly cool to begin with, I don't think all the advertising in the world will make a lame product cool.

      Best example i can think of is the automotive industry. GM is the single largest consumer of advertising in the world, they try campaign after campaign to achieve coolness and therefore younger customers. But in reality, their image remains one of the worst in the industry, and their buying age has not improved. Reason? They hire lousy ad firms, and their products are uncool period.

      Compare that to relatively tiny makes such as VW and Mitsubishi, but have consistently had the best ads and consequently a cool young image. My bet would be that M$ goes the GM route, big, expensive, and totally ineffective.

    3. Re:Since when by defile · · Score: 1

      Since when was a massive omni-mega corp ever cool?

      Sony's a cool, cold, heartless, omni-mega corporation.

    4. Re:Since when by Lispy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's why I think IBM did the right thing. BigBlue was considered to be one of the most conservative companies around but when they started to market Linux the coolness factor of Linux added to IBM. But the same strategy won't work for Microsoft, I guess...hehe!

    5. Re:Since when by adarn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You people are confusing the appearance of coolness with actual coolness. Microsoft is purchasing the appearance of coolness, which many people accept as cool, since they don't know any better. They are not purchasing actual coolness, which usually involves no money changing hands. They don't want actual coolness tho, they want people to buy their products, which the appearance of coolness is much more effective at doing.

    6. Re:Since when by fermion · · Score: 1
      I
      B
      M

      The difference between IBM and MS is that IBM understands the purpose of advertising. So does Apple. Advertising convinces you that a product will fulfill an emotional need. Apple does this by presenting their products as the haute coutre and therefore fulfilling the customers need to be beautiful. IBM has been running commercials that continue their long standing tradition presenting their products as the cure to FUD.

      As an aside, I think it so silly that SCO is trying to use the FUD tactic. SCO is just the like the snot nosed kid that you just want to pick up by the shirt colar and say 'I invented FUD, boy.'

      Anyway, back to the ramble. MS commercials fulfill no emotional need. They try to be feel good by focusing on who much money they give to charity. They have frantic IT guys running around telling how much money MS is going to save. Bullshit detector goes off. You don't do stuff like that anymore without a bit of sarcasm. A scary man running around in a tights does not an image make.

      Which brings up MS totally lack of understanding of media in general. What is the central image of MS. For Apple it is that their machines are Stars that you can own. For IBM it is that their processes are Stars that will make life better. The commercials are produced, on message, edgy without being fake. If you go to the MS home page today the message is that their machines are bug ridden, virus infested monsters that turn old men senile.

      And yet they say they are pushing media center. Can't find anything interesting about in the searches. The second sponsored link in google is broken. There is a mention of it on the MS homepage, but you have to have perfect vision in order to see it.

      I think they fact is that MS thinks they are Jaguar and people only need to be shown that they can afford it. In fact they are closer to, if I am very generous, to Lexus or Infiniti, the cars you buy if you can't afford a BMW or Mercedes, or just can't see yourself in Volvo. In all likelihood they would be better of pretending that they a Ford Focus, and advertise as such.

      Everyone uses MS. No one is happy, but no one who matters is particularly unhappy. They need to accept that reality. People will use XP media center because they know nothing else. The best thing they could do is to give away LOTR DVD, or some free songs from best buy, or may a free rental a month from blockbuster. They don't because they do not understand.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    7. Re:Since when by GoofyBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At first read your post sounds like a comedy sketch invloving Henry Winkler.

      But "appearness of coolness" = "actual coolness" to the general public and thats all that really matters.

      Does Apple have the "appearness of coolness" or are they "actualy cool"? What is the EXACT determining factor? Is it a subjective factor?

      If you don't think something is "actually cool" are you right or are you wrong? How would you know?

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    8. Re:Since when by Spoing · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Since when was a massive omni-mega corp ever cool?

      Coke. Pepsi. A multitude of alcohol and tobacco companies. RIAA member companies. In the /. crowd, IBM to some respect.

      I agree with your main point, though the cardinal rule for marketing is "Whatever we aren't make people think we are". This is largely effective -- so much so that I automatically think the opposite when seeing an advertisement just to get some idea of what the facts might be.

      Coke and Pepsi are carbonated beverages with flavoring additives and sweetners. If you drink a Vernors/RC Cola/Dr Brown's Celray, most people will think "WTF is that?". If you drink Diet Pepsi the same people will think...well, nothing.

      What shows more character? Well, neither or if you want a soda one of the non-Pepsi/Coke choices though they are harder or near impossible to come by outside of specific geographic areas.

      Full disclosure: I buy a few gallons of diet Coke and Pepsi a week. Haven't had a Celray ever, though one friend swears by them.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    9. Re:Since when by Spoing · · Score: 1
      Sony's a cool, cold, heartless, omni-mega corporation.

      ...like other omni-mega corporations or even corporations. Companies never do anything unless it benifits the company. If they did otherwise, they would bleed money and eventually go out of business. This includes charity work and support of open source where they are not the primary driver. (Example: Microsoft's support of Perl (that they ship), and use of Python and parts of BSD components in different products.)

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    10. Re:Since when by Frequanaut · · Score: 1

      You're confusing cool with popular.

    11. Re:Since when by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      > their image remains one of the worst in the industry, and
      > their buying age has not improved. Reason? They hire
      > lousy ad firms, and their products are uncool period.

      It's also because their products are absolute shit.

      My ex-girlfriend's VW is going great at 100K miles having only had routine maintaince. My mom's Mazda is at 80K and the same. My friend's Toyota topped 250K withour a problem before he sold it. My old Honda was at 175K before it got wrecked. In all these cases, with no more than the routine maintaince called for in the book.

      Last time my dad owned a Chevy, it was basiclly undrivable by the time it hit 60K miles. And even to get the thing to 60K, he had to do FAR more than routine maintaince. As I recall, the transmission had to be replaced once, then rebuilt again later; the master brake cylinder needed to be replaced, and both the power steering and air conditioner systems needed major repairs as well.

      Even if GM were to run as good an ad campaign as Apple; that wouldn't change the fact that their cars are detroit-designed, detroit-built, pieces of shit-on-wheels. And I'll NEVER own one.

      Hell, when I was shopping for my current car, I went out of my way not only to research the brand and model, but to actually find out *WHERE* the models I was shopping for were built. That way, I was able to make sure that my car was legitimately built in Japan itself, instead of being cobbled together by monkeys at the plant they set up here in the US.

      Detriot's problem is NOT image. It's problem is quality; or, more accurately, the absence therof.

      cya,
      john

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    12. Re:Since when by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      Coke and Pepsi are carbonated beverages with flavoring additives and sweetners. If you drink a Vernors/RC Cola/Dr Brown's Celray, most people will think "WTF is that?". If you drink Diet Pepsi the same people will think...well, nothing.

      Yeah, but my wife would have a cow if I bought 4 12-packs of Coke instead of 4 12-packs of Shasta Cola. At over twice the price, and with the 5 kids and all, we have to count every penny since there are so many we have to spend!

      I noticed this one time when instead of buying Shasta cola (the local, official, "off-brand" soda, I bought "Best Choice" cola, and the kids asked if we had any "name brand" soda!

      As a teen, I was a "Coke Classic" freak - but now I just don't care anymore.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    13. Re:Since when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of sports teams or events have big corporations behind it.

      Like another reply post said, you are confusing cool with popular. Anaheim Mighty Ducks has a big corporation behind them. Are they cool? The underdog team in the movie was. As was said in another thread, being the underdog contributes to being cool. But turning a movie about an underdog kids' team into a real life underdog professional franchise doesn't make the real life team cool. They may have been popular (meaning they filled seats and got tv ratings) when they made it to the finals after only ten years, but were they cool?

  34. What? They are expecting an ice age? by hajejan · · Score: 1

    What do they know that we don't know?

    And is what they know based on calculations done in programs on a Wintel computer?

    --
    The Mini Repository - more links
  35. MS in The Simpsons by zer0harm · · Score: 1

    BillG looked pretty fly shooting bodyguards out of his fingers!!

  36. Already in every movie and tv show... by Ceadda · · Score: 1

    After all, most shows these days use a... "blue screen" for their effects right? :-D

    --
    *There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape em off Jim!*
    1. Re:Already in every movie and tv show... by sacherjj · · Score: 1

      Not all. Somtimes a green screen is better. And if you are shooting DV (4:1:1), green is much easier to key. But people will still wonder what all the text is behind them.

    2. Re:Already in every movie and tv show... by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

      I pity the foo that has to pull a chromakey matte with DV.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  37. Money doesn't buy you coolness by tliet · · Score: 1

    Innovation does.

    Steve Jobs wins this year's silicon.com's annual Agenda Setters poll.
    Heh, Gates may be richer, and Jobs may be a bigger asshole, but in the end, Jobs has the coolest company.

    I'm sure Jobs can't be happier.

  38. Oh really? by alib001 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the article: After some early success with shows like "24" last season...

    Maybe last season but in the first series: 24's Good Guys Do Use Macs

    While Bauer and most of the other agents in his unit used Macs, the traitor used a laptop made by Dell. The baddies, a group of renegade Serbs, also use Dell machines.

    1. Re:Oh really? by clifyt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup -- the good guys always use Macs...and on the Mac mailing lists, some of the 24 geeks (I love that show...and occasionally look at the 24 spoiler sites...not sure if I'm at their level though). But several threads popped up when Nina started using the Dell in the first season...she started off using a Mac...they believed it was symbolic of her gradual move to the dark side.

      Sooo...knowing Macs are used by the good guys, why shouldn't M$ go for the side of evil. Evil has a LOT more money and there are a lot more folks on that side of things than would be willing to be good because being good means making choices that most folks just really wouldn't want to take on...

      M$ need to make a DeathStar PC. Something that looks evil incarnate. Something that says Bad Motherfucker on the side. Something that a goody goody wouldn't use. Something that impresses upon you that its YOUR job to keep it up to date, because their ain't no hand holding out in the fronteers and virus protection ain't our concern.

      Microsoft needs to embrace its position in the world and stop trying to run to Jobs every few years to ask him for a little Karma. Microsoft needs to impress upon folks that they are not the best, but if you fucking want to get anywhere, you will pay the fucking $300 a year to keep your PC up to date. Its racketteering...but done right, they can do it -- as they are now -- but make those of us out there that feel we'd been slipped the Anal Ease and know the worst is yet to come, know that this is how it is, it might not be how it should be, but if you don't like it, you are welcome to join the pansies using wussie OSs like X.

      I would respect them far more if they did this...maybe I'd not be typing this on a cute little iBook that always attracts chicks in the coffee houses but negates any cool points I might have with hard core geeks (even though if you looked at my screen, I'm probably in terminal SSH'd somewhere else)...

    2. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      M$ need to make a DeathStar PC. Something that looks evil incarnate. Something that says Bad Motherfucker on the side.

      ROFLMAO :D

    3. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I would respect them far more if they did this...maybe I'd not be typing this on a cute little iBook that always attracts chicks in the coffee houses but negates any cool points I might have with hard core geeks

      your attracting chicks but worried about your geek karma??? WTF?
    4. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "M$ need to make a DeathStar"

      Sorry, IBM's hard drive division beat them to it.

  39. Clippy by thinkninja · · Score: 2, Funny

    "It looks like you are saving the world", offered Clippy. "Would you like help?"
    "Just open a socket", growled Bauer.

    --
    "The number of Unix installations has grown to ten, with more expected." (Unix Programmer's Manual, 2nd ed.; june 1972)
  40. That sure has taken a lot of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "It's called product placement, Bill. It's called product placement!"

  41. Microsoft? Cool? by Xpilot · · Score: 1

    Bwahahahahhahahahaa...

    I was half expecting the foot icon on the topic. Microsoft is the anti-cool. Mention "Micro$oft" and the first image I get is a bunch of clueless PHB's bowing down to Bill Gates, and MCSE's looking for the "Start" button on VCR's. Remember how cool it was to watch Trinity hack using a *nix console in Matrix Reloaded? Imagine the same scene with her pushing colorful candyland buttons in Windows XP. Bah.

    --
    "Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
    1. Re:Microsoft? Cool? by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1


      I can see it now...

      "You too can join the ranks of elite hax0rz and install trojans and viruses in our software. Your friends will fear you when you threaten to use the information you gathered using spyware against them. Send millions of unsolicited emails using not 100 copies, not 10 copies, but only ONE copy of Windows! That's right friends, you can take control of Windows boxes around the world and command them at will to send millions of junk to unwilling users.

      What are you waiting for? Pick up the phone and call 1-800-PIR8 which has been retooled to be a hacker-friendly hotline. Don't delay! Call today!"

  42. Huh? by joel8x · · Score: 1

    So they're gonna spend a lot of money trying to be the cool kid? Didn't they ever see any John Waters movies? Then they would know that the cool kids are really the antagonists and its actually cooler to be the poor underdog who always gets the cute girl in the end. Stupid Microsoft!

    --
    Sound waves should be free!
  43. Win ME Video by KillerHamster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This reminds me of the "Windows ME Introduction Video" that showed several extremely happy people using "digital media" technology, "recovering from problems easily" (kid with hammer attacks keyboard), and experiencing the power of "home networking." I really love the part where Dad shoots a video of the wife and kid and sends it spinning around an animated globe to Grandma's computer. And despite all the marketing hype, all the non-geeks I know who have used WinME universally agree that it sucks.

    Besides, most of the people I know who are clueless about computers hate computers, and nothing will ever change that. Not marketing, and not attempts at making software easier to use. And such people wouldn't even notice the latest toy from HP on their favorite TV show.

    1. Re:Win ME Video by The+Fanta+Menace · · Score: 1

      ...what was the problem (aside from the obvious) with Windows ME anyway? I'm certainly not a Windows person, but from what I've seen of it, it didn't appear any worse than 95 or 98 (being worse than either of those would have been quite an achievement). Yet it seems to receive more than its fair share of complaints...

      --
      -- Even if a god did exist, why the fsck should I worship it?
    2. Re:Win ME Video by Kjella · · Score: 1

      And despite all the marketing hype, all the non-geeks I know who have used WinME universally agree that it sucks.

      Not to mention the opinion of any geek who was unfortunate enough to use one... but I don't think I can write the full and uncensored opinion of that in a public forum.

      Kjella

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:Win ME Video by crossconnects · · Score: 1

      It is exactly a broken version of windows 98. As hard as it is to believe, it is worse.

      --
      no big sig
    4. Re:Win ME Video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Besides, most of the people I know who are clueless about computers hate computers, and nothing will ever change that."

      That's right! People universally hate what they don't know/understand. Take that Sept. 11 shit. Seeing as most Americans didn't know/understand Islam, they had a general hatred toward. (Later, many were educated, but it still lingers some places.)

      Oh, how I hate humans.

    5. Re:Win ME Video by Unregistered · · Score: 1

      Besides, most of the people I know who are clueless about computers hate computers, and nothing will ever change that.

      Unless they use macs. Non-geek mac users will still go on about how great macs are. It's kinda supprising coming form some of these guys.

    6. Re:Win ME Video by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      The whole "ease of use" matra is misguided. They should be focusing on "useful", which is something entirely different. It doesn't matter whether a computer is easy to use, if it doesn't do what the user wants it to do. Apple started that whole idea with the idea of "computing as an appliance" and then lost it for a long time.

      The only thing that will ever change some people's view of computers is having the machine do something they personally find so useful that they can't get along without it. Once that happens, they suddenly wonder how they ever got along without it. I've managed to create that sort of epiphany in dozens of people over the years. Its actually rather satisfying.

      But you're right ... without sufficient motivation to learn and accept the technology, they will not bother and will simply ignore any reference to it.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    7. Re:Win ME Video by 56ksucks · · Score: 1
      I'll give you a little story. Windows ME was the last operation system I ever payed for. Big mistake. It froze up *WHILE* it was installing. I had so many problems with it I eventually reformated and dual booted with 98 and 2000. It would lock up all the time. And since they totally removed DOS from the OS, every time I had to force a reboot because it locked up the windows version of Scandisk would always pop up, only the windows version of scandisk would always lock up, causing me to have to reboot again, which in turn caused scandisk to pop up, which locked up. To break this cycle I had to boot into safe mode so scandisk wouldn't freeze, then I had to reboot. And this is just a fraction of the problems ME gave me. The OS was so full of bugs that it only stayed on the market for 9 months if that tells you how crappy it was.

      -----

      --

      ---- "Excuse me. Where's the children's gun section?"

    8. Re:Win ME Video by Jarlsberg · · Score: 1

      The main problem with ME was that MS tried to add more stuff than the Win9X core could handle reliably. Also, apparently ME was rushed out the door while still containing numerous known bugs, something which attributed to it's (deservedly so) poor reception.

  44. M$ on TV. by code_echelon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They may want to make there OS as stable as Apple or Linux before they try to advertise it all over the place in television shows. On numerous occassions I have seen M$ computers on TV at there trademark blue screen. This has happened on several shows including Howard Stern and CNN. I have also seen this on electronic billboards. M$ obviously needs to take a break from there marketing tactics and get back to programming, this is obvious as there is a constant threat of new vulnerabilities in there software due to the poorly laid out architecture.

    1. Re:M$ on TV. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      M$ obviously needs to take a break from there marketing tactics and get back to programming

      Whoa, enough of the crazy talk there. I mean that's a fundamental shift in the entire way the company does business. Has microsoft EVER done that?

    2. Re:M$ on TV. by Texas+Rose+on+Lava+L · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They may want to make there OS as stable as Apple or Linux before they try to advertise it all over the place in television shows.

      Notice that none of the shows mentioned are shown live. If they get a BSOD, they just do another take. The viewers never see a Windows crash, no matter how crappy the OS is.

      Remember, image is everything, and it's cheaper to make the OS look stable on TV than it is to actually make it stable in real life.

      --

      Rank Presidents by th

    3. Re:M$ on TV. by iantri · · Score: 1

      This costs money. I doubt the producers are going to want Windows machines on the set if they have to do retakes when they crash.

  45. get it? Word... Word? by zer0harm · · Score: 1

    no one? what about you young man? Word... (laugh damn you!)

    1. Re:get it? Word... Word? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're pathetic.

  46. Microsoft *was* cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    They don't get it. They were cool once, back when they were the underdogs, and they really were innovating with cool new products that took market share away from the big boys: WordPerfect, Quattro Pro. And OS/2. I mean, how cool is it to take on IBM and win?

    They put Windows on cheap PCs, so people didn't have to buy expensive Macs. That was cool.

    Microsoft put easy Internet access on people's home PCs. That was cool (at first).

    But once their innovations become successful, the monopolist behavior took over. That was uncool.

    Embrace and extend is uncool.

    Now, they aren't competing against WordPerfect and IBM, they are competing against OSS. They could compete in a cool way or an uncool way. They have chosen to be uncool about it.

    If they want to be cool again, they have to start doing the cool things they used to do.

  47. The solution is oh so simple... by Linker3000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    All MS has to do is rewite some basic error messages and we go from...

    This program has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down. Do you wish to generate an error report and send it to Microsoft?

    to

    Hey dude, Bill reckons you've been working so hard in Word that you deserve a break so we've closed it down for you. Go grab a diet soda (we've gotta watch that sugar rush!) or chill out by the water cooler for a while and then return refreshed to start all over again. We're so glad you've chosen to take a break we've even emailed Bill and told him you're not skipping on your personal time.

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO
    1. Re:The solution is oh so simple... by Pseudonym · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh, man. I just got flashes of a paperclip with an eyebrow ring and a goatee.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    2. Re:The solution is oh so simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you say goatee?

    3. Re:The solution is oh so simple... by scrytch · · Score: 1

      Beta versions of Visual Studio .NET were quite crashy, and when it did crash, it would pop up a dialog ... one of the buttons was labelled "Bummer!"

      --
      I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
    4. Re:The solution is oh so simple... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      They already did in XP. No more "Global Protection Faults" or "Illegal Instruction Errors". You get a nice message explaining that you have a problem with one of your applications, and by the way would you like to send a report to Technical Support? So now I have even more stupid dialogs to click through when the app I'm developing blows up.

      Fortunately you can turn all that crap off in the Control Panel and go back to the basic GPF window. It does seem like I see network activity whenever I acknowledge a crash. Hm. Wonder what they're sending out?

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:The solution is oh so simple... by Linker3000 · · Score: 1

      Bummer about the program dude--we're real sorry; in fact, we're soooo sorry, we've stress tested your network and Internet connection free of charge to make up for our codely tardiness."

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    6. Re:The solution is oh so simple... by Jerf · · Score: 1
      Oh goodness, you have no idea.

      I just "topped up my minutes" with my Virgin Mobile phone. The front page isn't too bad but dig down into site and it starts making me feel nauseous. I saved the page I got when I finished registering the phone (it had some useful data), and here are some choice quotes:
      When was the last time you got full service like this? And your mom doing your laundry doesn't count.
      Wow, that's one hip joke. I sure will be sure to emulate that wit in the future, so I will be the life of the party.

      Here's a good one... real numbers replaced by letters but they're the same number!:
      Your Virgin Mobile Phone Number: (ABC) DEF-GHIJ
      Your Phone's Network ID: 00ABCDEFGHIJ

      Give your friends your phone number, but keep the super secret Network ID to yourself, you might need it to program your phone...this message may self-destruct.
      Yes, really super secret, because otherwise bad things might happen. Fortunately, nobody is smart enough to crack the Super Secret code and thereby screw up your service or use your minutes or anything.
      Go forth and make joyous calls to friends and family.

      NOW your phone is fully programmed. Celebrate by calling a few friends and telling them how accomplished you feel.
      "Hey, Sally!"

      "What?"

      "I got my phone programmed!"

      "So? I saved on car insurance with Geico!"

      "And I lowered my cholesterol!"

      (What is it with this crap lately? Do they want to call attention to how much they're exagerrating the value of their products?)
      If your phone is acting funky, or it just won't work, try going through the steps over again. You may have entered a number incorrectly or something. If you're still having problems, call 1-888-322-1122 and a Central Intelligence Advisor will help you out.
      That's all off of one single page. Makes me nauseous.

      I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.

      (Incidentally, this message proves that even with TiVo I still get commercials, otherwise I wouldn't know about "I lowered my cholesterol!" or Geico, either.)
  48. Whats the point... by CrackedButter · · Score: 1

    ...when everybody nearly has a windows computer?

    Who gives a shit if it is cool when you cannot really buy a PC without one.

    --
    Jonathanjk.com
  49. The Sopranos - worst computer placements by root+66 · · Score: 1

    The worst computer usage in a series I've ever(well, recently) seen has been in The Sopranos.

    First, the monitor in Toni's office has only one cable (the VGA one) but no power cable attached.

    In season 3, I think, Toni's sister is chatting using a Powerbook (I think. It was black with a glowing apple logo). But when the screen is shown she is using ICQ or MSN on a windows box.. the widgets are just too different... I nearly screamed. (Oh wait, I did.)

    Yet, The Sopranos is one of the best TV series I've ever enjoyed. Can't wait till season 5.

    --
    -- I love the smell of Blue Screens in the morning.
    1. Re:The Sopranos - worst computer placements by CountBrass · · Score: 1

      Didn't see the episode. You sure it was a PC and not a Mac ? Apple's lovely cinema displays (like the 23" one I'm using with my dual G5 ) only have one ADC cable that carries the digital signal and power to the monitor. Edward

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    2. Re:The Sopranos - worst computer placements by root+66 · · Score: 1

      It's an old CRT... and you see the black power jack - without the cable... :-)

      --
      -- I love the smell of Blue Screens in the morning.
  50. I hear that Joe Camel is looking for another job by NZheretic · · Score: 1
    Meet Joe Chemo,
    a camel who wishes he'd never smoked cigarettes. Joe is having trouble feeling COOL these days, now that he's lost most of his hair. Worst of all, Joe just realized that he's been MaNiPuLaTeD all his life by tobacco companies. Poor guy -- his tobacco IQ never was very high.

    Hmmm,

    Meet Joe WinTroll, a user who wished he'd never upgraded to WindowsXP. Joe is having trouble feeling COOL these days, now that he's lost most of his digital rights. Worst of all, Joe just realized that he's been MaNiPuLaTeD all his life by Microsoft. Poor guy -- his technical IQ never was very high.
  51. HOW??? by dpbsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple makes physical objects with a distinctive look. The product just has to appear for a second. Nobody has to interrupt the flow of dialogue to say anything about it.

    What's Microsoft going to do? Ask them to show people booting up their PC so that the Windows logo takes over the screen and that musical sound plays?

    Have cool twenty-somethings joke about how to get rid of that obnoxious Clippy?

    This is just a dumb upper-management idea. Microsoft doesn't make the kind of products for which product placement works.

    Furthermore, Apple's appeal to a certain group is directly connected to their willingness to make strong, emphatic design statements. You may hate the way a Mac looks or you may love it, but you can't be indifferent to it. Other PC makers may take tentative steps in making their boxes charcoal instead of beige, or making the front plastic bulge a bit instead of being perfectly flat, but they're not willing to be emphatic--and neither is Microsoft.

    Contrast the Apple "switcher" ads--which I personally hated--with the bland, characterless attempt Microsoft made to do the same thing. You knew the Apple switchers were real people. And it came as no surprise to find that the Microsoft "switchers" were stock photographs.

    --

    "How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!

    1. Re:HOW??? by Lochin+Rabbar · · Score: 1

      Apple makes physical objects with a distinctive look.

      Yep, they look like these. How cool is that?

    2. Re:HOW??? by cnkeller · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What's Microsoft going to do? Ask them to show people booting up their PC so that the Windows logo takes over the screen and that musical sound plays?

      It's easy to forget that MS makes hardware. Keyboards, mice, *cough* *cough* tablet PC's. It wouldn't surprise me to see this is the route they go down.

      I've owned MS products for a few years now and am proud to say that my mouse and keyboard haven't crashed once or been hacked. More than I can say for their software though....

      --

      there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots

    3. Re:HOW??? by teamhasnoi · · Score: 1

      No, you're thinking Windows XP and this. No thanks necessary, love to help.

    4. Re:HOW??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS makes tablets as much as they make PCs. They don't.

    5. Re:HOW??? by Archimonde · · Score: 1

      I've owned MS products for a few years now and am proud to say that my mouse and keyboard haven't crashed once or been hacked


      Glad to hear it. I had two MS joysticks (Sidewinder 3D Pro & Precision Pro) and both died in a matter of months. I haven't used them much nor abused.
      By the way, Mitsumi made those joysticks for MS - they were just Microsoft branded.
      --
      Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
    6. Re:HOW??? by Lispy · · Score: 1

      Well, as you pointed out Microsoft is a software vendor and Apple sells Hardware. But Software can be cool, just look at Linux. Like it or not, Tux is veeeery popular because he's cute and cool.

      My sister used to have a Tux-postcard in her room for years without knowing what it was about, it just looked "cool" to her. So Microsoft needs to find a way to reinvent their product as an emotional brand.

      They could start with a new logo and give people some obvious gadgets that makes them feel cool. Such as Desktop Eyecandy or Eastereggs and so on. Maybe they should relaunch Windows under a different label with some added features that are only available in the "cool", limited edition, it would be enough to strip IE from it and name it Windows lite or find some cool uses for their ill Tablet-PCs that makes them more desireable, such as an waterproof-outdoorversion or whatever...They could also invent a younger, stylish brand with a cooler name such as Macrohard that has no obvious connection to Microsoft at all. Another move could be to release a bugfixed version of last years OS and call it "Windows gold", the OS for those that take stability over features...

      But, honestly, I better shut up know before I get them any ideas. ;-)

    7. Re:HOW??? by pipingguy · · Score: 1


      Have cool twenty-somethings joke about how to get rid of that obnoxious Clippy?

      Marketing drones (you know, those people that make 7-figure salaries and displace "real" workers) count on creating the latest "cool thing" that will drive more purchases. In our buy-more-stuff-get-popular-rich-and-famous economy, the younger crowd is one target. Another one is scaring elderly people into buying stuff they don't really need. Ever wonder why a 10 year-old "needs" a hundred dollar pair of sneakers when s/he will outgrow them within six months?

      It all comes down to personal insecurity, even if one has a million bucks in the bank. Sad situation.

    8. Re:HOW??? by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
      Well, as you pointed out Microsoft is a software vendor and Apple sells Hardware. But Software can be cool, just look at Linux. Like it or not, Tux is veeeery popular because he's cute and cool.

      Tux does look cool, because like the Apple logo there's something more Organic about it. Whatever Microsoft do, their logos are corporate and bland. They don't have much choice, because they don't want to scare off the corporates.

      The coolness about Linux comes from the attitude people have for it, though. It's the difference between buying Britney Spears and the Grateful Dead.

    9. Re:HOW??? by miu · · Score: 1
      Apple makes physical objects with a distinctive look. The product just has to appear for a second. Nobody has to interrupt the flow of dialogue to say anything about it.

      What's Microsoft going to do?

      I'm thinking something like those pharmacuetical company comercials that started showing up on television a few years ago. Those comercials never mentioned what the product did, they just repeated the company name and product name over and over again with images of joyful people doing things with their family and friends in the background.

      The comercials were not selling the illusion of cool, but they were trying to create brand recognition for previously invisible companies as well as sell the illusion of health.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    10. Re:HOW??? by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1
      I'm thinking something like those pharmacuetical company comercials that started showing up on television a few years ago.

      Yes! I see it now!

      And the voiceover at the end can proclaim, "Ask your IT specialist if Windows RX is right for you!"

      --
      That is all.
  52. It's All About Image by trublaha · · Score: 1

    Apple has always been a market innovator (Rendevous, spearheading the Digital Hub, etc) wheras Microsoft have generally been a market follower (Internet Explorer, Windows).

    Apple usually push new ideas while Microsoft tend to follow current trends. Further, Apple products ooze quality in appearance and user-experience, that while not to everyone's taste, show that they are keen to make computing... well, cool! Microsoft have always focused on business success and creating utilitarian products.

    That said, Apple have for a long time built an 'air' about them that speaks, 'stylish', 'trendy', and 'friendly'; MS have one of 'office', 'corporate', 'conservative'.

    Microsoft will have to work hard to steal any of Apple's polish...

  53. Simpsons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bill Gates: Mr. Simpson?
    Homer: You don't look so rich...
    Bill Gates: Don't let the haircut fool you, I am exceedingly wealthy.
    Homer: [quietly] Get a load of the bowl-job, Marge!
    Bill Gates: Your Internet ad was brought to my attention, but I can't figure out what, if
    anything, Compuglobalhypermeganet does, so rather than risk competing with
    you, I've decided simply to buy you out.

    Homer: I reluctantly accept your proposal!
    Bill Gates: Well everyone always does. Buy 'em out, boys!
    [Gates' lackeys trash the room.]
    Homer: Hey, what the hell's going on!
    Bill Gates: Oh, I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks! [insane laughter]

  54. What the fsck is wrong with you people? by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 4, Funny

    The butterfly isn't cool enough for you? Flying around without a jetpack isn't cool? Right. It's way freaking cool. They even use songs by Madonna and the Rolling Stones.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    1. Re:What the fsck is wrong with you people? by Chicane-UK · · Score: 1

      That doesn't make the fscking product any better though does it? :)

      --
      "Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
    2. Re:What the fsck is wrong with you people? by sharkey · · Score: 1
      They even use songs by ... the Rolling Stones.

      Ahem. "You make a grown man cry!"

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    3. Re:What the fsck is wrong with you people? by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 1

      That was the line that stuck in MY head.

      About as lame a choice as the Seattle Mariners starting off the season with that rap song about choking in the pressure of the moment, blowing it...

      Some of us catch the words, people.

  55. Hollywood has always had zero clue about computers by SIGBUS · · Score: 1

    Anyone remember WarGames? I couldn't believe the cluelessness of their depiction of computer tech.

    --
    Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
  56. sigh... by lxs · · Score: 5, Funny

    We all know what's going to happen now:

    Yes, Longhorn will be renamed "Windows Extreme"

    1. Re:sigh... by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 1

      How about Windows: Code Red

      Wait a minute..

    2. Re:sigh... by Unregistered · · Score: 1

      not windows really good edition?

      (if you don't get it search google for a 5 yr old flash animation about windows RG)

  57. Well, good frigging luck... by SoTuA · · Score: 2, Insightful

    to Microsoft on this. Their problem is that, in 99% of the times, a windows box looks like ass, and TV/Movies are all about visuals. Apple has got them beat, beat, beat. It would need shots of the desktop, and, unless somebody in the movie is USING the computer, that won't be easy...

    Sorry Billy-boy, but you must get a cool box first before somebody thinks MS is cool.

  58. I pity da foo'. by rikun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Man, the subject line says it all. They're going to waste massive amounts of money trying to be the cool kids. It's not gunna happen... 40 year old logic in advertising and whatnot seem to think just make it "xtreme" and it's good to go. I'm waiting to see Microsoft team up with some hardware manufacturer and come out with computers with skateboards plastered all over them or something. Their new slogan: Microsoft; KICKING YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE SINCE 1988 Meh. This is bad as Dell trying to make "cool" gaming computers.

  59. Cool can be manufactured 4 segment of the market by leoaugust · · Score: 1

    It could also be that MS is moving out of the business of pleasing the geek market and now aiming for lower pickings .... for example in parts of Europe Baywatch was the "coolest" show for the longest time ... burnt out bands end up touring Japan ... Madonna and Michael Jackson still dominate headlines in many parts of the world .... and so does Britney ...

    Those are probably the parts that MS is trying to influence in its business of world domination. That is what they do every night - try to take over the world ... it's just that they world is bigger than geekdom now .....

    --
    To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies ...
  60. BSOD improvement by arcanumas · · Score: 3, Funny

    If they want to be more "hip" then they should improve the part of Windows that users see the most. The BSOD. They should make it animated with sound and some cool phrase , preferably from the list of Windows Haiku.

    --
    Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
    1. Re:BSOD improvement by westlake · · Score: 1

      Blue Screen jokes lost their cool about three years back.

    2. Re:BSOD improvement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Blue Screen jokes lost their cool about three years back."

      Yet the screen itself remains cool? Just wondering, since it's seen so often...

  61. It's a bit more complicated then that... by JFMulder · · Score: 1

    I read a very interresting article a few days ago. (sorry, it's only in french, read it here) It talked about a recent trend in Hollywood movies and TV shows. It seems that the good guys uses Apple while the bad guys uses a PC with Windows. Recent example are obviously 24 where in the first season CTU used Macs while Ira Gaines, the bad guy for the first half of the season used a PC with Windows. In Legally Blonde, every boring lawyer has a PC, while Reese has a Mac. In MI-5, the secret agent agency uses MacOSX while bad guys often use PCs.

    It's not a rule of thumb, but it seems some show writers have decided to give the evil roles to PCs and the good and righteous roles to Macs.

  62. Bill Gates by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 1
    I think people have seen way too many pictures of Bill Gates to ever, and I mean ever, associate Microsoft with "Cool."

    With Apple, Jobs has always tried to be cool. From the early stages, Jobs wanted his products to look cool. Jobs actually likes making things look cool for the sake of looking cool, how can Microsoft compete with that?

    --
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    1. Re:Bill Gates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when i think of Billy borg Gates i picture the goatsex pic with Bill Gates face looking out from inside that stretched out bung hole...

  63. Maybe they should look at their TV advertising... by Goonie · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Case in point: Microsoft is currently advertising Windows Server 2003 on our local TV (the ad is American, though).

    The setup is that a besuited guy wanders in on a what is presumably the IT department. The IT department looks like the commercial director has taken the most boring people on the talent agency's books and told the costume and make up people "think bland". They are all dancing extremely awkwardly and drinking some unidentified liquid (the way these people are acting, it sure ain't alcohol) out of blue plastic cups.

    The guy asks what's the party, at which point the head IT guy explains how they had magically consolidated the Active Directory groups from 70 to 4 thus allowing them to roll out new apps to the sales force in minutes (or some such hooey). The suit looks nonplussed, until Head IT Guy explains that this will save the company millions of dollars. The ad closes with the suit leading the IT department in a line dance, which they manage to make look just as awkward and dorky.

    I realise the ad probably has to be designed to it can be shown everywhere from Salt Lake City to Singapore, but, jeez, if you want to make your brand cool try not to associate it with complete dorks... :)

    --

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
    --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
  64. Microsoft, please fire your ad dept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck image, just make software.

  65. McDonald's Recent Efforts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it would be great if MS tried to emulate McDonald's recent marketing efforts. Here in Ireland, McDonald's new "cool" advertising campaign has so reeks of falseness and trying too hard that they are the hieght of uncool now.

    Making an effort to project "cool" makes things "uncool", at least in Europe...

  66. corepirate nazis image is accurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fauxking greed/fear based payper liesense hostage ransom stock markup FraUD execrable they are.

    you don't need an nda to figure that out?

    meanwhile, we have to report that nsi's sitefinder device is still functioning despite their report of cessation.

    can't see what all the hooplah's about, as 1000's of folks have found us recently, that may have never done so. we're missing the evile intentions on this won. no dispute that nsi is a softwar gangster/stock markup felon hideout/ally.

  67. Quentin Tarantino on M$ by zer0harm · · Score: 1
    Jules: Come on Yolanda! What's Windows like?

    Yolanda: Unstable?

    Jules: What?! No, what do they CLAIM it is?

    Yolanda: Co..Cool?

    Jules:Correctamundo! And that's what we're gonna be - We're gonna be cool.

    I can't see it...

    1. Re:Quentin Tarantino on M$ by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1

      Any of you programs move, and I'll execute every motherfucking last one of you.

  68. Microsoft cool?! by Anita+Coney · · Score: 1

    Well, according to Microsoft its software is secure, stable, and cost effective. If all of those can be true, then sure, it can be cool too!

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  69. maybe they should partner with dell? by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 1

    because those dell commercials are so cute, hilarious, and above all respectable. (those interns are all trendsetters) (there was one cute girl, though, but she seems to be gone now)

    dude!, i know you only have 24 hours to save the country, but the *grin* Dell PC running Microsoft Windows XP Home Edittion *grin* needs to save the personal settings. (should be no more than 2 minutes)

    --
    If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
  70. Microsoft's cool-injection ready for Prime Time... by sirb4c0n · · Score: 1
    Right as the next steamy sex scene on NYPD blue
    just starts to heat up, we pan to the right,
    focus into the forground, where, on the monitor
    above Tony's shiny new gate way we see:

    "Entertainment that tunes to you

    Windows XP Media Center Edition 2004"

  71. Bah coffee... by twoslice · · Score: 1
    I almost spilled coffee on the floor via my nose

    Try that with a fresh can of Jolt cola - That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo!

    --

    From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
  72. Monacle and persian cat by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

    Oh, Msft should just go with, caricature and exaggerate their existing tendancies to comic extremes: adopt a slight nazi accent, have an ad set in a scientific 'laboratory' (with spinning tape drive cabinets in the background), Ballmer shuts down a Linux box and inserts a Win 2003 CD while white frocked lab assistants strap Linus onto an operating table, Gates strokes the cat and says, "No Mr Torvalds, I expect you to DIE!".

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  73. Care to cite a reference to that ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    you *wish* apple didn't pay for product placement.
    c'mon, man, are you niave or what?

    1. Re:Care to cite a reference to that ? by brianosaurus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple has an article about it. Its an old article, and its on Apple's site, so make your own conclusions. But it is a reference :)

      --
      blog
    2. Re:Care to cite a reference to that ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the article states: "With Forrest Gump, there was no product, just the Apple logo," Forlenza recalls. "They called up and said, 'We have a kind of wacky idea--what do you think?' They wanted to use our letterhead for the part where Forrest Gump finds out he's become a millionaire because he's invested in what he thought was a fruit company." Paramount used the Apple letterhead, and 78,873,439 people saw it.

      The producers of a movie contacted apple, and WANTED apple to have an appearance in a movie.

      Forlenza sees Apple products she hasn't placed play a starring role in movies: "In Home Alone 3, there was great hero usage of a Powerbook that we had nothing to do with. We're lucky that Apple is so entrenched in the entertainment industry. It's sometimes as easy as the director saying, 'It has to be a Mac, and we can't use anything else.' That happens a lot."

      People just want them. Nobody got fired for using IBM, and nobody lost a creative job by taking a photo of a mac. Hell, there's enough shots of powermacs on -microsofts- site advertising .NET. Their logos are removed, they're made into 'generic PCs' but my non computer using brother put it best as I was browsing. "Hey there's your iBook!"

  74. Does this mean that Bill Gates plans to retire? by Internet+Dog · · Score: 1

    MS will never be obtain a cool image as long as the figurehead for the company is a weasily ubergeek.

    Silk purse from a sow's ear comes to mind.

  75. Fighting the symptoms by gidds · · Score: 4, Insightful
    What's the betting that M$ never even thought to ask themselves why Apple, or other companies, have a cool image? Why people want their products, why their users feel so much more attached to them than any M$ user does?

    No. Brute force and ignorance, every time. "We want a cool image; find out how much that'll cost, and buy it."

    Unfortunately, so far, it's a policy that's mostly worked. And if they spend enough in the right places, I fear it'll work again. What does that say about society?

    --

    Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    1. Re:Fighting the symptoms by giblfiz · · Score: 1

      It says that money is a proxy for human effort, and human effort, and that human effort can do anything.

    2. Re:Fighting the symptoms by Jade+E.+2 · · Score: 1
      What does that say about society?

      **FIXME**

      I think your sig answered your question.
  76. Achieve cool - how? by vudufixit · · Score: 1

    Their mice and keyboards are known to be pretty well made, even stylish. But can input devices enhance an image of "cool?" Apple is "cool" mostly because they do the whole package - design an excellent OS and hardware and sell both. Other than the abovementioned input devices, where is the opportunity for "cool" going to come from? And as for placements in popular shows - does this mean that from now on computer screens will start showing how computers actually work? After all, showing a spy breaking into a computer by typing "override password" isn't exactly representing how an MS operating system looks and operates, is it? Any "coolness" created by let's say Dell, HP or other system builder will redound more to them than to Microsoft itself.

  77. Logo masking by holygoat · · Score: 1

    Except that on a great many shows (certainly CSI, and I think Stargate SG1 and 24 as well) the logo is often masked - the TiBook was the best example, which looked good with a metal crest design instead of the apple.

    Possibly to avoid some kind of licensing cost, but probably just for suspension of disbelief.

    I think that most producers or set designers will choose whatever fits, or looks coolest. At present, that's not Microsoft.

  78. jonnIE cochran might be able to get them off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as they have not yet been convicted of firearms posession since their 'probation' began.

    as far as their 'image' with J. Public/US? it likely ranks with gotti, the rev. jim jones, the georgewellian fuddites, and any # of assorted sociopathic felons, that the era of irresponsible billyonerrors (see also: va lairIE/robbIE et AL) has spawned.

    that doesn't mean that the giaNT ?pr? ?firm? of fuddles&fudstorm is not composing more&more fraudulent hypenosys spinolah, as we eagerly anticipate the gooed 'news'.

    lookout bullow.

    consult with/trust in yOUR creator...

  79. Microsoft and "Cool" Image? by Pan+T.+Hose · · Score: 1

    I, for one, welcome our new Microsoft Bob overlords.

    --
    Sincerely,
    Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
    "Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
  80. IBM tried to be cool. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Funny


    IBM wanted people to think OS/2 was "cool", so the company began calling it "Warp", which to the people at the time who were likely to be old enough and powerful enough to make big purchases meant "bend out of shape in such a way as to possibly render useless".

    Well, I'm here to report that it worked. IBM did in fact succeed in associating the word "cool" with OS/2. IBM lost a "cool" billion dollars on OS/2. In the years immediately following, IBM lost another "cool" billion dollars. That's positively frigid.

    OS/2 is still "cool" in the sense that, because it is dead, it is no longer warm.

    So, that's a story about a big company trying to be cool.

    1. Re:IBM tried to be cool. by stud9920 · · Score: 1

      Good analogy. Everyone on slashdot thinks IBM is very lame, supporting that fancy schmancy linux thingy and stuff. What a bunch of losers IBM are.

    2. Re:IBM tried to be cool. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Hey! As a dedicated OS/2 user from '95-2000 -- well, you're right.

      Sigh. I think Dvorak also noted in a column that there were airport posters saying, "OS/2 will obliterate your hard drive!"

      The Warp box also had printed on it something like, "The operating system for Windows". Duh -- as an average purchaser, what does _THAT_ mean? If I need Windows, why is it called an operating system? I mentioned that on a non-IBM bulletin board and had an IBM marketing person _trying_ to defend it no more than two hours later.

      Who _were_ these people?

  81. /.'s Borg-Bill is cool by Analogue+Kid · · Score: 1

    I mean what gets cooler than the borg? They're huge, powerful, and they're a threat to humanity. Just like microsoft, right? They have a hive mind, they just mindless want to assimilate EVERYTHING into their system kind of like Windows assimilated web browsers, media players and then messengers into the OS! The parallels just don't stop! Both are evil! Both are cool!

    If only Microsoft had the guts to play up their evil borg-ishness, THEN they could be cool. Honestly, what is cooler than a seemingly unstoppable evil force?

    --
    I'm a gnu world man.
  82. Cool? by FrostedWheat · · Score: 1

    Nah, even super-advanced alien life forms use Apple Macs. MS could never top that!

    Tho if they did, it would make Jeff Goldblum's job a lot easier.

    1. Re:Cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you connect with an Apple doesnt mean they use one.

    2. Re:Cool? by FrostedWheat · · Score: 1

      If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  83. So would UPS, Tums and Preperation-H by sammyo · · Score: 1

    Just not gunna happen.

  84. Advertising in this way too by wrmrxxx · · Score: 1

    Some of MS's TV and radio advertising already approaches things from this angle - they are working on building an image, not conveying real information about their product. No different from a large proportion of other advertising. They have advertisements that don't promote real features of the product they're trying to sell, or try talk about quality or price competitiveness. Either they think their target audience just isn't interested in these kinds of things, or they think that the only thing they've got going for them is hype.

    Phony image building campaigns can turn me right off a product. I'd like to think that everyone else reacts like this too, but there's overwhelming evidence that this is not the case. We're getting the crap we deserve because we're so gullible.

  85. C.S.I. product placements by NortWind · · Score: 1

    I saw on last week's C.S.I. the new MS side scrolling wheel mouse, and they made reference to the Xbox. I wasn't really paying attention to placements before, but I'll watch more closely next week.

    1. Re:C.S.I. product placements by windex82 · · Score: 1

      i saw that mouse, from what i saw it made me immediatly want want one. If it functions like it looked on the screen, what i saw was a normal wheel that could "roll" sideways (imaging the way a rubber band would roll down your finger, but this rolled in place and was pretty wicked) Anyway i /doubt/ its cool enough to actually work like that.

      I have to give it to hardware stamped with the MS logo, its some mighty fine stuff, with a great warrenty as well, 3 yr no questions asked, i just wish i knew who was making it for em so i could buy it stamped with someone else's name.

    2. Re:C.S.I. product placements by NortWind · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I liked the way it worked too! It took a 2D picture, converted it to a 3D mesh, automatically rotated it in 3D and projected it onto another 2D picture. Yeehaa! like that's possible.

      The MS hardware is not too bad. They don't have monopoly power yet in most hardware lines (like mouse and keyboards) so they actually have to compete. They don't have to show a profit though, a bit of an advantage for them. Still, I have a Logitech dual optical mouse, it is super fast and accurate, much better than the MS mouse I have at work.

      The Xbox, however, fails the "mighty fine stuff" test, in my opinion.

  86. Aaaah, grasshoppah, you forget one thing. by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Manufactured products can be cool, but cool can't be manufactured.

    I personally thought back to my first use of OS X, and "cool" was amongst the first thought.
    "Right On" and "Fucking-A" soon followed.

    My first use of Windows XP followed a similar vein, only the complete opposite; "Oh...MY...GOD", "What the FUCK!!", "Make it STOP!!", "For the love of GOD MAKE IT STOP", "What fucking rocket scientist thought this was a good idea?", "Why am I having childhood flashbacks of Romper Room?"

    Here's a clue for Microsoft:
    Make it simple: Turn the crap OFF/un-integrate.
    Make it look good: See above (XP looks HORRIBLE)
    Make it secure: Turn the crap off by default.
    Make it functional: see all of the above.

    Oh, and *LISTEN* to what people want. Not like windows 98 beta when 78% of people said "NO!" to integrating Internet Explorer into the OS.

    (sheesh)

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  87. Nice Try by mcbridematt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone see the new M$ WinServer 2003 Ads (I live in Australia, if you want to know)

    Boss: Whats the party?
    Geek: We just finished a Active Directory rollout, merging 70 domains into 4
    Boss looks confused
    Geek goes on about some crap 1 day instead of weeks
    Geek: Its going to save us 2 million dollars
    Boss smiles and takes drink from Geek.

    Here is a better version:
    Boss: Whats the party?
    Geek: We just finished a Linux rollout. Now customers can get their data 24/7 instead of 3/24. We also managed to merge 1,000 servers into 100.m
    Boss looks confused.
    Geek: Its going to save us
    Boss takes drink from Geek.

    1. Re:Nice Try by mcbridematt · · Score: 1

      After "its going to save us", it should say "insert big figure here". Damn, I'm too use to BBS software

    2. Re:Nice Try by christopherfinke · · Score: 1
      Now customers can get their data 24/7 instead of 3/24.
      So they get their data 24 hours a day, 7 days a week instead of 3 hours a day, 24 days a week? I don't know about you, but having 17 extra days to my week just by using MS WinServer is enough to win me over (pun intended).
  88. Three rules of coolness. by cabazorro · · Score: 0

    First rule of coolness. If you are trying to be cool, you are not. Second rule of coolness. If you are pretending to be cool, defenetely you are not. Third rule of coolness. If you are paying somone to make you look cool You are a looser and please revisit to first rule.

    --
    - these are not the droids you are looking for -
  89. It's alread cool... by duckpoopy · · Score: 1

    My secretary thinks MS Office is really cool.

    --
    word.
  90. Old news... by pavese · · Score: 1

    They were in Oddyssey 5 already or was that future music??? :/

  91. MS wants to be cool? by thedbp · · Score: 1

    The only way MS could be cool enough for me to use their products would be if Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates, and the rest of the execs to go into cryogenic freezing, to be thawed out and tortured when our society is sufficiently advanced enough to devise appropriatelyl painful methods of death.

  92. Know what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm with you 99%.

  93. monopoly by sonoluminescence · · Score: 0

    Well I for one welcome...

    oh, wait..

    --
    Karma: Bad. Calmer, good.
  94. but they were integral to the first season of 24 by kraksmoka · · Score: 1
    ok, sure, the machines were Dells, not specifically a windoze prod. placement, but they were even important to the final outcome.

    come on guys, dontcha remember? ? ? ? windoze users were the BAD guys and Mac users were the GOOD guys. that is the most appropriate use of technology in entertainment that i have ever seen. yes, all the dell laptop carrying folks were evil and just mindless drones controlled by some unknown malicious force. jeez, how unlike reality man . .. . ..

    --
    "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
  95. Apple PAYS to be in movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry dude, Apple pays for product placement. That's why they're in nearly every movie.

  96. Re:Cool can be manufactured 4 segment of the marke by grub · · Score: 1


    Die Die Metallica, Die Die RIAA, Die Die My Darling.

    Woo, I've never a Misfits-based sig. Please do some Motorhead next time. :)

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  97. Haiku candidates by Kjella · · Score: 1

    They should make it animated with sound and some cool phrase , preferably from the list of Windows Haiku.

    Three things are certain:
    Death, taxes, and lost data.
    Guess which has occurred.

    Everything is gone;
    Your life's work has been destroyed.
    Squeeze trigger (yes/no)?

    Windows XP crashed.
    I am the Blue Screen of Death.
    No one hears your screams.

    Seeing my great fault
    Through darkening blue windows
    I begin again.

    The code was willing,
    It considered your request,
    But the chips were weak.

    A file that big?
    It might be very useful.
    But now it is gone.

    Errors have occurred.
    We won't tell you where or why.
    Lazy programmers.

    Chaos reigns within.
    Reflect, repent, and reboot.
    Order shall return.

    Wind catches lily
    scatt'ring petals to the wind:
    segmentation fault

    With searching comes loss
    and the presence of absence:
    "My Novel" not found.

    A crash reduces
    your expensive computer
    to a simple stone.

    Yesterday it worked
    Today it is not working
    Windows is like that.

    Having been erased,
    The document you're seeking
    Must now be retyped.

    Blatantly copied from here

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  98. I can see it now... by BMonger · · Score: 1

    "CUT!"

    "If that box crashes one more time during a shoot... I swear I'll..."

    Windows... the worlds worst extra.

  99. ROTFL!!!! by Aronak1 · · Score: 1

    This is too funny for words. Something about "you can't turn a pigs ear into a silk purse" or something.... But I think it may be even more pathetic than funny. As I age I can only call these the ugly times. Times in which only money matters. Lies,deceit,disinformation, and a complete loss of good faith have gone down the drain. Average intelligence must have followed integrity right down the sewer as well. It never ceases to amaze me at how many people actually watch network television let alone the incredible number that actually buy into the shit they are watching. Will $MS's efforts produce any results? That depends on what their definition of a result is. Nearly all of the market they are aiming at is already running their bullshit OS to begin with. Why bother to massage people into making them feel that it's cool? The only thing they'll derive is a bit of mindless mantra chanting in the moron's who watch this crap. If that is their intention then they will have gained more of a foothold to enhance future product placement and sales. But $MS will NEVER be cool. Not because I love Linux, not because I am a geek, but because $MS never had and never will have the elements that define a suave and sophisticated operating system. It will never bend to the will of it's users and reflect what he or she is. It is Windows and will always be Windows. That's my two cents.

  100. You Forgot Diamonds by weston · · Score: 1

    Cool can be manufactured.

    Diamonds, too....

    --
    Tweet, tweet.
  101. Geeks are cool? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

    How can geeks be cool when a major factor in geeking is devoting an inordinate amount of time and energy on a hobby or subject, usually one that is not widely enjoyed by the majority. Since geeks tend to not give a damn to what the majority of people think, how can they possibly be cool, except to other geeks.

    Coolness is something that has some barrier to entry (usually cost) to the majority but is still desired by the masses. Uniqueness and presentation can also make something cool. A bowling shirt can look like crap on one person and slick on another.

    What's interesting is how Macs now have some sort of cache' but are still shown disdain by geeks. Wonder what that's all about.

    --
    I drank what? -- Socrates
    1. Re:Geeks are cool? by zdislaw · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "Coolness is something that has some barrier to entry (usually cost) to the majority but is still desired by the masses."

      Barriers to geekingess:

      • Money (cost of gear)
      • Education (for an average person to learn what they need to know to "geek out")
      • Fashion sense (c'mon, this shit ain't easy. Toughskins are harder to find than they used to be and not everyone's mom will do their clothes shopping for them)
      • Lingo (takes practive to be able to use multiple acronyms in every sentence)

      But seriously, how is this different (to a markeeting firm) than any other lifestyle?

      I don't think it would be hard for a savvy marketing company to make geeks cool. When you try to make a lifestyle or personality cool, you don't present all the aspects of that thing, and you certainly are not honest about presenting it.

      Nike doesn't spend much time showing us how injuries affect athlete's lives. Or how early in the morning practice is. Or how intensely stressfull that level of competition is and how hard it is on them.

      Marketers will probably not focus on the less "cool-able" aspects of geekiness, but in the increasingly tech-driven society we live in I don't think it will be long before geek is cool. You don't have to make average people into geeks, you just have to get them to admire aspects of geeks and aspire to those aspects. Make it look like geeks earn more money than regular people. That's a good place to start.

      --
      bad sig...no donut.
    2. Re:Geeks are cool? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Guess I should have mentioned my definition of 'geek'. To me, I think a geek is anyone who spends a lot of time indulging in and attaining extended knowledge in a subject, hobby, or activity. Thus, there can be scrap book geeks (there are whole stores devoted to this-go figure), sports geeks (jocks?), Star Treck geeks, etc. Usually, the geek adjective is applied when such an activity is not understood by others (why the hell would you use a Mac?). While I don't get the whole sports thing (of what possible interest could I have with a bunch of rich guys playing a game with ball?), enough people do to make it a mainstream activity and thus, not geeky.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  102. I can see it now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "My name is Jack Bauer. Today I've had to save the world from terrorists, stop my daughter killing herself like she normally tries to, activate my new copy of Windows XP, and install loads of security patches."

  103. Great by slapout · · Score: 1

    Great, now everytime we see a computer on TV we're going to see the blue screen of death.

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
  104. Microsoft and it's users. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft, it's product, and more specifically, it's users, will never, ever, never be cool.

    Matterafact, public service annoncements and after-school specials should be made to help Microsoft and it's users try to act at LEAST normal. Cool is waaaaay beyond that.

  105. Money would be better spent on .... by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    improving the OS

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  106. No by Xenex · · Score: 2, Informative
    It is illegal to place products in both terrestrial and satellite TV in the UK
    No. Not at all.

    The BBC can't, though. But the BBC isn't everything.
    1. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, yes at all. Would you like to kill yourself now or hide under another rock with your pathetic opinions??? See here:

      http://www.itc.org.uk/itc_publications/codes_gui da nce/programme_sponsorship/section_15.asp

      If they product place, they lose their licence.

  107. Amazing... by MP3Chuck · · Score: 1

    Countless critical updates in the past 2 months alone and STILL ... they're showing more concerin for a flashy product rather than a quality and secure product.

    --
    Who doesn't like free music?
  108. Sounds like... by Faust7 · · Score: 1

    As Gates tries to defend Windows, the General blows his head off. I thought that was pretty cool.

    Kind of metaphorical for Slashdot, eh?

    --
    The coolest voice ever.
    1. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
        1. As Gates tries to defend Windows, the General blows his head off. I thought that was pretty cool.

        Kind of metaphorical for Slashdot, eh?

      *blink* Erm, ah, I guess that's funny. Or interesting. To someone?

    2. Re:Sounds like... by Mignon · · Score: 1
      Kind of metaphorical for Slashdot, eh?

      I'm sure it's been said many times that Linux and the BSD's played a big role in the "colonization" of the internet - that if people had been stuck with the choice between Windows or expensive commercial Unixes, there never would have been as many people trying out things like Slashdot and Yahoo.

      And yet, on the other hand, so much of Slashdot is about bashing Windows; so in a way, Slashdot couldn't have become what it is without Windows either.

  109. speaking of 24 by mincus · · Score: 1

    Here is a link to a "48" marathon... We are going to watch every episode of season one and two in a row.

    24 Marathon

  110. Apple's branding success by stev_mccrev · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Quite a lot of Apple's "cool factor" among the "fashionable and Hollywood tech elite", (especially from the marketing point of view) comes from the instant recognition of Apple products.

    If you see a silver wide screen laptop with a little grey apple on the back, you know you're looking at a G4 powerbook. You can be almost certain it's running Mac OS X. You know what you're looking at - the hardware, the software, what the machine is good at.

    That doesn't happen with PC's. There could be anything in that box.

    With Apple releasing both hardware AND software, they have the ability to create products that consumers can instantly recognise (that's an iBook, that's an iMac, etc), and know what to expect from them.

    This has allowed Apple to "engender a hip, consumer brand image" that MS do NOT have (and are going to struggle gaining).

    Stev.
    1. Re:Apple's branding success by 90XDoubleSide · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, Apple's products definitely have the advantage of being recognizable in a way that other brands aren't: you can tell just from the shapes and materials. I like it when shows cover up the logos on the computers so as not to be giving free advertizing: what, are we going to think it might be that other rectangular brushed-metal laptop?

      --
      "Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
    2. Re:Apple's branding success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The Apple Cool Factor is amazing...

      Yesterday... Sitting at school... I got 3 compliments on my 17" laptop. 2 people came up to me and I heard the 3rd walking behind me saying "That is an awesome laptop" to his girlfriend. Now there were people using other laptops in the same area, but lets face it. They are boring. Fact is, I am a recent convert to Apple and I have nothing but good things to say about them.

      Microsoft has a lot of work to do if they are going to change there image. Let me explain, no there is too much, let me sum up:

      1. Windows has the history as a jerk computer company who beats everyone up.
      2. There look and feel for all of the OS is pretty crappy. Apple spends so much on Q&A in this area.
      3. Security is crap. It is not cool to have to worry about the latest virus day in and day out.
      4. Bill Gates is just not cool in any way. It probably took being the richest man in the world for him to get laid.
      5. Apple does this so well already.

      Now the scary thing is... What if Microsoft suceeds. What if Apple finally goes the way of Netscape because of Microsoft's actions... Possible... but I know that I will never use another Microsoft product as my main machine again.

    3. Re:Apple's branding success by cosmo7 · · Score: 1

      If you see a silver wide screen laptop with a little grey apple on the back, you know you're looking at a G4 powerbook. You can be almost certain it's running Mac OS X. You know what you're looking at - the hardware, the software, what the machine is good at.

      I watched the Forbes Richest 500 thing on History channel the other day. One thing that surprised me was how ubiquitous the PowerBook G4 was - about the only person not using one was Michael Dell - and somehow I don't think the marginal price difference between Macs and PCs was an issue here.

  111. This is a mistake. by xanderwilson · · Score: 1

    Microsoft, damnit, you don't announce that you want to be cool. You act like you don't care if you're cool or not, and then they come to you. You'll never be cool if everybody knows you want to be cool. Geeze, didn't you ever go to high school?

    Alex.

  112. Next Rolling Stones theme after "Start me up"... by BerntB · · Score: 2, Funny
    This means that the next Microsoft theme song will be "Sympathy for the Devil"? :-)

    They could even advertise in a cool comic! Lucifer, the Sandman followup. :-)

    " Why settle with the lesser of two evils?

    Forget Cthulhu -- go Microsoft!

    Let's go to a hot place today! "

    --
    Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
  113. Microsoft wants a "cool" image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    So does the Borg, but I don't think that'll happen soon.

  114. And of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Steve Jobs is actually vegan.

  115. Virii by RedHat_Linux_Man · · Score: 2, Funny

    They're gonna have a pretty rough time trying to convince everyone that worms are actually cool...

    1. Re:Virii by Unregistered · · Score: 1

      Guy 1: "Did you get the awsome new virus?"
      Guy 2: "No, i have a mac"
      Guy 1: "Oh. Everyone else got it. I guess you're just weird. Looser"

      Offscreen Voice: "Don't ever let this happen to you. Buy Windows RG today"

  116. Re:Cool can be manufactured 4 segment of the marke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > MS is moving out of the business of pleasing the geek market

    Wow, what alternate reality are you in?

  117. I have the answer, no really. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft is shit, linux is good.

    you are now ready for the next level.

    This is a spoon....

  118. What is this MacDonald's you speak of? by FunWithHeadlines · · Score: 1
    "Like MacDonald's recent hip-makeover marketing efforts..."

    What is this strange MacDonald's place you speak of? Is it perhaps a Scottish outpost of the famous McDonalds corporation? McHaggis, anyone? Servers wearing kilts?

  119. The School of Rock and other Delights by teamhasnoi · · Score: 1
    has no less than 2-3 iMacs and an iBook in the trailer!

    I'm guessing that they are going to be prominently featured since they will be in most shots of the 'teacher' (Jack Black).

    What does that say to me? (as a fan and student of the evils of advertising)

    The school is up-to-date, the kids are well educated and probably have fun learning. The school is clean, the kids are well-to-do, and are creative.

    I can't say if the movie's going to be any good though.

    Apple doen't need to come off as cool - ever since I've seen my first Apple II, I've thought they were cool, unique, swell and very usable. They are extra-swift now because they *look* the part, and appeal to compu-idiots for ease of use, and uber-geeks for OS X and sweet-ass hardware.

    OS X is THE reason I just spent several grand on a new 15" Powerbook.

    I've used some variant of Windows for the last 10 years, tried Linux a few times. Found BeOS as it went under and fell in love. Long live OpenBeos! OS X came to me at work and didn't have the things that I hated about Windows in it. It was smooth, clean, and didn't look like anything I had ever used before. That said, it was also very user friendly - and wow! a unix terminal!

    I've learned more (by choice) in 1 year using a Mac than the previous 10 with Windows. The Mac is cool, yes - but it also lessens the uncoolness of things you must do on it, i.e. work.

    Microsoft can't be cool. They can make cool things, they can do cool stuff, and have cool features, but MS can't be cool. They are a giant corp, run by uncool people (Bill and Steve? c'mon), make Windows and Office that bring viruses and DRM to everyone and sit on every decidedly not cool desktop in the world.

    Can you do stuff with Windows? Sure. Can you enjoy it? Maybe.

    No doubt Bill and Co. are poring over this post right now saying, "But Teamhasnoi! What DO we DOOOOooo??".

    Bill, you need to think about some things. Like how Windows is viewed as a 'computer'. You've done real well in getting Windows on PCs, but your mindshare stinks. People associate computers with Windows, and the whole thing as 'appliance', and that spells boring. You don't see anyone trying to install Windows CE on a Zaurus, do you?

    Second, why would I want to use Windows at home? Most use Windows at work, then come home and it's more of the same. Change it up. Media Center is a good start, but you really need to drop the DRM deal. You're just going to annoy people and make them think of work and PCLOADLETTER when some song they want to hear won't play. They will blame you. And plot your death.

    Third. Hardware. The biggest (and I mean biggest) hardware thing you have is the X-Box. Take a look at the PS2 - those guys know how to design sexy hardware. The X-box looked dated when it came out. Stop designing by commitee. Get one person to do it. And not you. Hitler may have designed the VW Beetle, but you're no Hitler. Yet.

    Fourth. Bill, lets face facts. You're dead inside. IANAPPOP (I Am Not A Preacher, Pastor, Or Pope), but you've got pay some serious attention to the soul. Ya got no soul, brother. Stop. Give the company to Steve for a year (watch him, have you seen those eyes?), go to Tibet, live in a cave and eat mountain air and drink icy runoff. Bring a Newton.

    Fifth. Has the school bully ever been cool?

    Oh, Bill, my Powerbook shipped today, so I won't be able to help you anymore. Zen out on that.

    1. Re:The School of Rock and other Delights by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      > Why would I want to use Windows at home?

      Well, I suppose it's just about plausible that you might want to play one of the vast majority of computer games which are released only for the Windows platform?

    2. Re:The School of Rock and other Delights by Night+Goat · · Score: 1

      Well, I suppose it's just about plausible that you might want to play one of the vast majority of computer games which are released only for the Windows platform?

      That's not WANTING to use Windows, it's HAVING to use it.

    3. Re:The School of Rock and other Delights by kalidasa · · Score: 1

      Look, I'm writing this on a G5, so I've got Nixon-goes-to-China credentials to say this:

      Say whatever you want about Gates: call him a Borg, say his company writes sitty shoftware and is run by a bunch of thugs in white collars. But don't dis the guy's soul. He gave $1Billion to give inoculations to kids in 3rd world countries. Even $100M I could believe was just a publicity gimmick. But a BILLION?

  120. MI-5 too (spoiler-beware!) by microcars · · Score: 5, Interesting
    If anyone watches MI-5 (similar to "24", but involves the British Secret Service), ALL the computers in the entire MI-5 complex are ALL Apple!

    Wintel laptops are used as Trojan Horses filled with C4. (no really!)

    I've seen a treatment of the final episode of the show, funding is cut and a new manager is brought in who attempts to "modernize" and "standardize" the MI-5 by "upgrading" to Windows boxes.

    I will not reveal the ending, but let's just say its not pretty.

    --
    I like microcars
  121. A proper choice in TV show selection.... by 3seas · · Score: 1

    Hey, we committed federal crimes against the public and got away with it, and our software creates all sorts of security risks ----- we be cool....

    What are some current shows these facts about MS can be used on to communicate "cool"?

  122. Identical shoes. by The+Monster · · Score: 1
    Why else then do entire teams commonly wear the same exact brand of shoe?
    Well, at the professional and major-college level, the official reason is that the players wear 'uniforms'. And the reason they're called 'uniforms' is that they're supposed to be, well, 'uniform'.

    NFL rules expressly forbid any deviation between what's worn by the members of a team, other than the player number and name, and the size and position of those items is controlled. Years ago, before there was a rule governing shoes, Billy 'White Shoes' Johnson of the Oilers earned his nickname because he correctly reasoned that if his shoe was the same color as the sideline stripe, an official might not notice if he just barely touched the sideline with one foot while trying to evade a defensive back. This was long before instant replay would have caught him at it, so it made sense. Now that there's a rule that requires the team to wear identical shoes (with a special dispensation for kickers, who occasionally wear a different color shoe on the kicking foot) guess what color everyone wears? I'll give you one guess, and it isn't black.

    That's not to say that the teams or leagues don't get paid to wear a certain brand, of course. In fact, it's to make sure that the individual players do NOT screw up the exclusive deal that the team or league has with the shoe makers.

    --

    [100% ISO 646 Compliant]
    SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.

  123. Can it be COOL if everyone already has it? by hwestiii · · Score: 1

    Part of "COOL" is pure economics. Scarcity increases value. Cool is generally something that someone else has, that you don't, and that, as a result, you want.

    I'm sure that Apple's cool derives from a combination of its superior design, its relatively dear price, and its marginal market share. No matter how cool the design of Apple products are , they would necessarily seem to be common if they had even a third of MSFT's market share. If Apple were to drop its prices to where their products were truly competitive with comparable Wintel products, I'm sure some of the Jobs/Apple mystique would begin to wear off. No matter how cool PowerBooks seem now, they would soon become ho-hum if every third laptop owner had one.

    With regard to Microsoft, cool can a product with 90+% market share be? Cool is almost by definition something possessed only by the few. This seems like a goal that is fundamentally incompatible with their standard world-domination stance. Once again, Microsoft shows itself to be the reductio-ad-absurdum of capitalism; if some is good, the more is better, and all is best. Anyone notice that the Bush White House seems to run a lot like Microsoft?

  124. Already been trying it by cgleba · · Score: 1

    They've already been trying it.

    In the James Bond movie, The World is Not Enough,
    a PDA is used when trying to defuse the bomb -- the PDA a disproportinally large Windows logo on the screen and the PDA was held such that the logo was the center of attention rather then what they were doing with the PDA.

    It is one thing to have unobtrusive product placement, but I felt that in this scene it was very poorly done -- it was too glaring.

    I'm not looking forward to such future product placements.

  125. Errata by Viceice · · Score: 1

    Errata: ...the disposable income can buy...

    --
    Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
  126. Madison Ave. is pleased, "Send us your money... by webweave · · Score: 1

    And we will push a tired processed image research has told us the board, middle class, slightly below average intelligence youth with disposable income market will accept as cool" That's it, just what the world needs more time spent on selling shit.

    The perception of "Cool" has been co-opted by the advertising industry for so long that anyone with two synapses to rub together knows it is totally fake and only designed to separate you from your money, thats is all!

    If everybody is doing it, how can it be cool?
    Ever seen someone who tries to buy cool, are they cool?

    I world is a big place and there are infinite possibilities why take someone else's choice, especially when that person is only doing it to get your money.

  127. can they do it? by qbproger · · Score: 1

    I don't think so. I think microsoft is way too known to become cool. When you think about it, something usually becomes cool because it is a little different than the norm. It doesn't take that much effort to stay cool, but to become cool after all this time. That would be difficult. It'd be much easier for something less well known to become cool, ie- linux. ^_^

    --

    - Joe
  128. Paint it Black by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every Microsoft fanatic I've met has been in love with two things:

    1. We own the desktop. Everybody on the planet who "matters" is running Windows.

    2. Bill Gates is the richest person on the planet.

    It is worship of power and the fascist groove thing pyramid. Ties in with the inevitable S&M. If my Windows 98 crashes regularly, who am I to complain at my position in the pyramid. "Can I have another crash, sir?"

    Microsoft should buy Apple's design team. And everything -- storm trooper black. Hardware black. Manuals black. Actors and models in fashion designer black.

    I'm as serious about this as Pierre Cardin at a fashion show.

  129. Marketing hype by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 1
    McDonalds tried to do the marketing hype thing to win back more customers. Rather than address issues of health, taste and quality with their actual products,... they chose instead to do a swanky ad campaign, complete with packaging re-design with the hope that nobody noticed that the actual burger content was the same crap they've been pumping for years.


    Microsoft will do the same.


    One thing that Americans are great at... being salespeople and being entertainers.

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
  130. McMicrosoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm lovin it!

    1. Re:McMicrosoft by Lispy · · Score: 1

      Wasn't it "I - love - this - company!"? ;-)

  131. They'll need sexy hardware... by JeffTL · · Score: 1

    ...to become anywhere near as visually prevalent in the mass media as Apple. Let's say you are making a commercial for office furniture, and you need to have a shot of a desk with a computer on it. The desk is of very high quality. Your options are: (a) a cardboard imitation (b) a Dell (c) an Apple Which would you feature? Keep in mind that a G4 (or a G5 if they're really lucky) is very eye-catching.

  132. Cool? by Lispy · · Score: 1

    I personally believe that Bill should tape a Bionic Eye to his head, you know like the Borg from Star Trek. That would look definetly cool. Err...nevermind! ;-)

  133. MS needs product placement on The Soprano's by mbone · · Score: 3, Funny

    Following this line of reasoning, MS needs product placement on The Soprano's, and maybe a story line about how Tony wants to expand from cartage into software license enforement, but is scared off by the aggressive tactics of the Business Software Alliance.

  134. Bingo by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I realise the ad probably has to be designed to it can be shown everywhere from Salt Lake City to Singapore, but, jeez, if you want to make your brand cool try not to associate it with complete dorks... :)

    You've hit the nail on the head. MS wants to be every image at some point or another. Big Reliable Bank Partner. No wait... SupaDope Xbox playa. No wait... Your Friendly Neighbourhood PC weenie. No wait....

    They can't have it all ways. As someone pointed out above, while Microsoft can rent cool, they can never, ever be cool. Its just not the way it works.

    Like trying to pick your own nickname. Apple became cool years ago and that's what they are still. MS, much more powerful financially, cannot claim underdog status, and no one in their right mind can associate themselves with a global behemoth like that.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    1. Re:Bingo by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, they seem to have done it right with the "SupaDope Xbox playa" part. The Xbox ads are cool, and they've pulled in a lot of hardcore gamers who would otherwise have gone with a PlayStation or GameCube. And despite my general loathing of all things M$, I have to admit that the Xbox is one damn good game system.

      But they did it by, as far as I can tell, disassociating themselves from the rest of the company. If you didn't know the Xbox was a M$ product, you'd be hard pressed to tell from any of the ads. I don't claim to know how the corporate structure works, but the impression I get is that Xbox Inc. is almost a separate company. That's probably the only way they could pull off any degree of cool -- as opposed to Apple's iPod and iTunes divisions, which make sure to remind you at every opportunity that they are, in fact, Apple.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:Bingo by frycarson · · Score: 1

      I have to admit that the Xbox is one damn good game system.
      At one point I may have agreed, but too many xboxs, well, function poorly. Whilest following usage directions my friends started smoking. Something decided to catch fire inside. He worked at a game store and on a regular basis xboxs would come back, well, nonfunctional due to severe overheating. It's cool though, cause when it happens it's like slow motion and dropped frames, followed by possible smoke and flames. They may have improved upon the heat management system with recent release model revisions, but I know I can not, in good conscience, allow the XBox be touted as anything but a gamble. And are there any good games out yet? _fryCarson, The best part of the Xbox was how it cost M$ around $150 a unit...

  135. From the horse's mouth by craw · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is Apple's info about product placement.

    The article is kind of dated, but the fundamentals still hold true today.

  136. First Commercial... by ShallowThroat · · Score: 1

    "Hey kids, check out how cool it have your projects and email stolen!" "Yeah, Buffer Overflows are the shiznit!" and the slogan will be something inspiring like "the only cooler than using XP... is nothing." *Sigh*

    --
    The "Insert Quote Here" line is almost as predictable as inserting an actual quote.
  137. Microsoft cool eh? by Oaktree_b · · Score: 1

    How come I can picture Mr. Gates dressed like Steve Martin in "Bringing Down the House" when he goes into the hip-hop club to rescue Queen Latefah. Geeky, middle-aged white guy dressed up in street clothes, looking as clueless as ever.. "Windows yo, it's the dopest trip!" As poor Billy gets thrown out of the club.

    --
    ------ Will of Iron, Knees of Jello.
  138. I'm not sure by Botchka · · Score: 1

    how Microsoft is going to accomplish this, or at least match the coolness factor of Apple. Microsoft only controls the OS and even THAT some may argue. They have NO control over the hardware which is a big factor in Apple's coolness, oh AND that beautiful OS! The last time Microsoft was semi cool was when they used the Stones "Start Me Up" in their first Win95 ads.

    --
    Money not found! A)bort, R)etry, D)eclare Bankruptcy
    1. Re:I'm not sure by Botchka · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You paint a garbage can platinum, and it's still just a garbage can. --Nikki Sixx

      --
      Money not found! A)bort, R)etry, D)eclare Bankruptcy
  139. Ya mean sumpin like... by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

    Ya mean sumpin like:
    "I keeps tabs on my Hos, guns, drugs and dead bros in my M$ Accesss database, and share it with my punk ass live bros usin Frunt Page! And Internet Exploiter"

    --
    A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
  140. Hans Moleman as Bart by yuri · · Score: 1

    Is anyone else thinking of Bill Gates trying to be cool kind of like the Simpson's episode where Hans Moleman was pretending to be Bart?

  141. Oh, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny. Picture Al Gore in an ice cream suit trying to disco.

  142. The most obvious question is... by rpozz · · Score: 1

    How do the hell will they make their tellytubby operating system look cool?

  143. It's Coooool... by dnahelix · · Score: 1

    To get/send virii from/to all your friends!
    The cool thing about Apple, is you recognize the computers even when the have to blank the logo out!

    --
    Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
    They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
    I Hate \.
  144. Maybe they could... by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Funny

    spraypaint butterflies, hearts and peace signs all over downtown sidewalks. Seemed to work for IBM. Oh wait.

  145. How cool is bad ? by JaCKeL+1.0 · · Score: 1

    In either way trying to change their image will make it worse because it is already worst than wh know.

  146. Do not call it "Blue Screen of Death" Anymore! by RinzeWind · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now it's Cool Screen of Death!

  147. MOD PARENT UP! by Night+Goat · · Score: 1

    Damn, I wish I had some mod points. Microsoft can't buy real cool.

  148. Re:Since when - "cool"'s road to "popular" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Big corporations may eventually be behind things that were "cool", but these corporations are trying to capitalize and/or perpetuate what was originally "cool" about the product.

    Things that are "cool" almost always start that way because they are different and aren't mainstream, backed by big corporations. Nike originally introduces a good (at the time) running shoe with a new tread. Pabst Blue Ribbon, the present beer of choice for Williamsburg hipsters, is cool precisely because it had no marketing campaign. Is 50-Cent "cool" now? He was when he was when he was peddling mixed tapes two years ago.

    For big biz to buy cool, they need to find a legitimately "cool" product to begin with. Then big biz can push it to the saturation point and it moves from "cool" to "popular"(thereby rendering it "uncool"). Creating "cool" and creating "popular" are two different things.

  149. 24 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, it's pretty funny. In season 2 especially, all the bad guys had Wintel notebooks/computers, and all the good guys worked off of Apple computers.

    Boggle!

  150. Jim Allchin by E1v!$ · · Score: 1

    That name sounds like a marketing play on "Tim Allen" doesn't it?

  151. Led Zeppelin ad campaign by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

    Cadillac doesn't TRY to be cool: they aren't in that market

    Apparently you don't watch broadcast TV networks, which is a good thing but that's a different topic. Commercials with Cadillac's driving around fast with Led Zeppelin playing loudly in the background does qualify as trying to be cool.

    1. Re:Led Zeppelin ad campaign by jd_esguerra · · Score: 1

      Commercials with Cadillac's driving around fast with Led Zeppelin playing loudly in the background does qualify as trying to be cool.

      And my god does it not work. Its like

    2. Re:Led Zeppelin ad campaign by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      And my god does it not work

      Does not work for who? The targetted demographic of 45+ year olds who have nostalgia for the late '60s early '70s and are feeling a little discomfort in their joints when getting in and out of low slung sports cars? My grandfather raced motorcycles and had a corvette for a little while in the '60s. He loved both, today he finds a corvette uncomfortable.

    3. Re:Led Zeppelin ad campaign by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 1

      Doesn't work for me. Rather than tying Led Zep. to the car, it's tainted Zep for me. I'm not postmodern enough to think that "Sellout" == "cool".

      I'm not sure there is a brand that would work here, but a line known chiefly for bad gas mileage isn't it. Rock & Roll is for rebels, not golf-playing, cigar puffing, Establishment folks.

      "Song Remains the Same" wasn't filmed at a country club cotillion.

    4. Re:Led Zeppelin ad campaign by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure there is a brand that would work here, but a line known chiefly for bad gas mileage isn't it. Rock & Roll is for rebels, not golf-playing, cigar puffing, Establishment folks.

      Your antiquated attitude is why Cadillac is running such commercials. Cadillac is trying to leave this 1950s/60s era perception behind. There is a new generation of old farts who were the hard-drinking pot-smoking tie-dye-wearing hippies going to see Zeppelin back in the day. We are just now entering the era where today's Armani wearing CEOs are yesterday purple mohawk wearing punks. There is no difference between rebel and establishment. Every generation thinks it discovered rebellion, pot, sex, and loud music. Every generation ironically adopts a uniform to express it's "rebellion" and "uniqueness". There are really only two types of people. One who likes a song and one who doesn't. Rock and roll does not belong to the posers who style themselves rebels, it belongs to anyone who enjoys it.

    5. Re:Led Zeppelin ad campaign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh. Your post is funny.

      All the freaks who put away their tie-dyes and sold out didn't really sell out, see... they're still rebels, see... and they can prove it by buying a Cadillac!

      Woo! Yeah! It makes sense! Yeah!

      You Tool.

      By the way, next time you're on the highway, please try to remember that slow traffic should keep to the right. Please try to get your poor handling, overweight, overpriced luxury sedan/SUV out of the left lane sometimes.

    6. Re:Led Zeppelin ad campaign by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      I'll try again. It's not that anyone sold out. It's that nearly all self styled rebels are posers. They watch MTV over the summer to find out what this years cool uniform of "rebellion" and "expression" will be so they know what to buy before school starts. Considering oneself a "rebel" is a normal adolescent stage. As one grows up ones learns that every generation does this. The only thing that differs are the fashions (clothing, music, jargon, etc.) but the thinking is the same. For some the adolescent stage continues into college, more of the same, but they use bigger words like "establishment" now, wear Che Guevara t-shirts without ever reading his work (how many are aware of his belief that civilian casualties are politically necessary), etc.

  152. Windows product placement? Bwahahaha! by phillymjs · · Score: 1

    Maybe one of the cop shows could have a copyright-infringement bust of a previously-untouchable "Mr. Big" type, whose organization is using pirated copies of Windows to run things-- You know, the same way they got Capone for something dumb and seemingly minor (tax evasion, or mail fraud, or some such) when they couldn't get him for the countless murders or anything else.

    [cut to Interrogation Room. Underling is cuffed to a chair, under a single light fixture]

    Cop 1: Come on, Freddy, we don't want you. We want Mr. Big. Just tell us what we want to know.

    Freddy: I wanna see my lawyer!

    Cop 2: You ain't seeing no lawyer, Freddy, until you tell us-- how many Windows licenses does Mr. Big have??? If you testify, you'll stay outta jail. You know what they do to software pirates on the inside, don't you, Freddy?

    Freddy: Ok! Ok! He's got 25 PCs, but he only bought one copy of Windows 98!

    Cop 1: Good boy, Freddy. [to Cop 2] Call the judge, let's get the warrant.

    Cop 2: Judge? Warrant? This is software piracy, remember? We didn't even need to squeeze that stuff out of Freddy to go crashing in there and haul everyone out in leg irons!

    Cop 1: Oh, right. John Ashcroft's America. I keep forgetting.

    [cut to commercial]

  153. Why not do something even better? by KC7GR · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Instead of spending loads of $$ to project an image, why not spend it towards FIXING THE BUGS and SECURITY HOLES in their stuff?

    In short: Isn't improving the actual product(s) more important than seeing some cookie-cutter TV star using them?

    They can put all the TV spin they want on their OS's and apps. It won't do them one iota of good if said OS and apps remain in their current state, security-wise (which means they're about as secure as a block of Swiss cheese).

    --

    Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

    Blue Feather Technologies

    1. Re:Why not do something even better? by Keeper · · Score: 1

      Instead of spending loads of $$ to project an image, why not spend it towards FIXING THE BUGS and SECURITY HOLES in their stuff? ...because with 50 BILLION dollars and over 50,000 employees, they don't have enough money available or people working to fixing bugs and security holes, let alone spend a few million dollars on product placement...

  154. Re:Since when - "cool"'s road to "popular" by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1

    I think you are saying early adopters are the ones who make things cool and once they move on it isn't cool.

    >Is 50-Cent "cool" now? He was when he was when he was peddling mixed tapes two years ago.

    Interesting point. How do you know that he was cool? Is every nobody peddling tapes is cool? Suppose today he is just this small guy selling his mp3s on a website right now, would he be cool?

    >For big biz to buy cool, they need to find a legitimately "cool" product to begin with.

    How is "Windows and its pretty buttons and Clippy and neat-o sound effects and spiffy animations just like in the movies with my favourite stars and was key in destroying those evil-doers" not cool?

    --
    The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
  155. New 24 Episode (with M$) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Jack: Nina, I need that intel on the terrorists now... What's the hold up?

    Nina: Sorry Jack, but there was a hole in the firewall and the worm that's out on the Net has been infecting our workstations. Microsoft released a patch, and we've been installing it, but it doesn't work on all the systems. And whoever released the worm has it programmed to attack Microsoft's site as well so it's really slow going.

    Jack: Can't IT just download one copy of it and distribute it to each machine in our network to expedite things... We really need that intel so we can track the bomb... Now...

    Nina: Ummm, IT tried that, but in Windows 2004, Microsoft has a global ID that's registered to each system and it's checked whenever an update is requested for download. When the software we were running expired and needed to be updated, we also had to upgrade the operating system, and we didn't know this latest registration feature was in it. Justice's lawyers are negotiating with Microsoft now, but I don't know how long that will take... It shouldn't take too much longer for me to update the systems...

    *Sound Effect*: Nuclear bomb shockwave blast...

    *End of Scene... Go To Commercial*

    --------

    Oh yeah, Microsoft products will definately play a role in 24. I for one, welcome the entry into the show so the average person can see just what the threat to national security Microsoft's products are...

  156. They're working on it... by phillymjs · · Score: 1

    Remember that thing they were showing off at WinHEC, with the stupid arms on the side holding the phone handset and the camera?

    Since Microsoft is taking an intense drubbing in the software-quality arena of late, they're going to try to steal Apple's thunder by portraying Windows running on hardware that looks like it slipped through a wormhole from the not-too-distant-future (where apparently Earth has been conquered by beings with extremely poor taste and design skill).

    Fortunately, the PC companies are as bad at ripping off Apple's hardware designs as Microsoft is at ripping off Apple's OS. Most people will probably just get a good laugh at the ridiculous computer equipment that will begin appearing in TV shows.

    ~Philly

  157. I don't they will succeed by borius · · Score: 0

    Let's face it, what Joe User uses (Windows) will never be cool. Coolness is individuality, being a trend-setter, being original. That's why Mac is considered hip by some as well as Linux (more of a geeky coolness though).

  158. The easiest way to spot the villans in 24 is to .. by burgburgburg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    see what OS they are using. All the good guys in episode 1 and 2 used Macs. All the bad guys (including Nina, it was a giveaway) used PCs.

  159. Cool like what? by Izago909 · · Score: 1

    Exactly what cool image will they project? It's cool like unprotecetd sex, but you won't be stuck with these bugs for life.

    1. Re:Cool like what? by windex82 · · Score: 1

      ROFL, thanks i needed a good laugh..

  160. Re: The public doesn't care by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Yes, I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head with this one!

    I almost never saw some "average Joe" buy a new Apple system and then comment about it being "the same one shown in movie Z" or "TV show X"!

    The only people who enjoy pointing out that their favorite PC or PDA was featured in a movie or TV show are the people who are already computer-savvy, and already purchased what they use for other reasons.

    Honestly, I've seen more reaction from the general public when a movie featured some make-believe OS. People comment "Which kind of computer does that cool thing with the spinning envelope and talks to you when you get new mail?", and so forth....

    As I understand it, Apple doesn't even pay for most of their product placements in Hollywood films. When the Mac is prominently shown, it's typically only because the director or producer really likes Apple - and wants to put it there. Microsoft, on the other hand, is pretty much going to have to "pay to play" - and it won't be worth their dollars.

  161. microsoft is already in the news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    virus after virus after virus - it is really cool indeed

  162. hate the new mcd by LuxFX · · Score: 3, Funny

    Like MacDonald's recent hip-makeover marketing efforts

    Yeah, but I really despise the new McDonald's 'hip' commercials! If Microsoft wants to do the same thing, I'll probably wind up hating...

    oh wait, nevermind

    --
    Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
  163. Lipstick on a Pig? by linux_author · · Score: 2, Insightful

    - lipstick on a pig is still a pig with lipstick...

    - screenwriters and other industry hacks know the best platform and products to use - and they aren't from the software monopoly...

    - i wouldn't be surprised to see consumer and corporate anger regarding the software monopoly become even more prevalent on the large and small screen...

    - the Evil Empire can spend all the money in its coffers on improving its image, but any effort won't remove the past or erase its evil history...

  164. Fox's 24, Microsoft and Apple legacy by theolein · · Score: 1

    Firstly, I found the 24 series to be incredibly dumb. The plot seemed to be written by an overworked team of scriptwriters who got themselves involved in conflicting substories, and then had to write rather extensive plot hacks in order to get the story back online. The Serbian bad boys part was relevant to a point, but the "Nina Meiers" persona seemed so obviously hacked, going from good to evil to good to evil, it seemed like it was necessary to make the story last 24.

    On to product placement. All I can say is, WTF? There were Dell Inspirons all over the place, but those large monitors in the main character's office were Apple Cinema displays, and I had a good laugh looking at the fake GUI of their "CTU OS" running on their Dells, as all the windows were taken from Apple's trusty OS9. ::Grin::

  165. Re:Hollywood has always had zero clue about comput by gerardrj · · Score: 1

    Other than the flashy lights on the WOPR, the omni-present computer voice without a speaker, and the ever popular monitors that project their images on the the actor's faces, what was so wrong about WarGames?

    If you want to talk about clueless movies lets talk about "Hackers", and "The Net". Quite possibly the two most painful depictions of computer technology ever put on celluloid.

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
  166. Mac is the "alternative" by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
    It's not just about the look, it's about how Apple is the underdog which nonetheless makes really sexy-looking products. Until recently they were garbage - The G3 was gutless, the G4 is underpowered for many tasks, though luckily Altivec has made them useful for content creation, playing video streams, etc. And MacOS 7 through 9 were garbage. Did they even start using the MMU in 8, or 9, or what? You'd think they'd have had to. Certainly 7 didn't use it for anything other than VM.

    But the fact is that the movies contain items which are not mainstream. If you see a PC, it's not running windows, or at least not portrayed to be running windows. I think it was mission impossible where I could have sworn it was an IBM laptop running Slowlaris, though maybe it was running AIX... And they're still using Minidiscs in movies because they are still rare in the US. They use them in Anime for the opposite reason; They are ubiquitous in Japan :)

    So unless Microsoft suddenly loses almost all its market share to Apple, it's not going to gain some kind of underground credibility. And if it did lose almost all its market share to Apple, one suspects it would quickly lose the rest because what makes Microsoft strong is not the quality of its products, but the lock-in factor.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  167. A recent kung fu movie trend by UltimaL337Star · · Score: 0

    What they need is a Big Black Guy Named Ben...

  168. Trying to stand out in their own crowd by JoeCommodore · · Score: 1

    Though I hate MS for their tactics I don't think they can carry it off anyway.

    What they need:
    - Make a cool logo that doesn't suck (or doesn't represent something that sucks) That windows logo is old and clunky. The butterfly is pretty good but that doesn't represent MS it represents their on-line service. The XP logo gets a little better. Also you don't see it on the backs of PC or on the cases of lpatops (which gets it photographed) so I guess it doesn't matter anyway.

    - Make Cool Computers with more style than beige boxes and me-too black laptops. Again they aren't hardware so that's not gonna happen.

    - Stea^h^h^h^h er.. Innovate some cool software they have no programs as recognisable as iMovie, iTunes, iDVD, etc. Though there is Internet Explorer, it gets a lot of press time (as a virus magnet).

    To be cool you have to 'stand out from the crowd,' unfortunate for Microsoft is that THEY are the crowd they want to stand out from. :-/

    --
    "Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
  169. The perfect name.... by arcite · · Score: 1

    CompuGlobalHyperMegaNet

  170. "The thing is... by Morky · · Score: 2, Funny

    "This thing is, they have no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean it in a big way."
    - Steve Jobs on Microsoft

  171. iPod by MacFury · · Score: 1
    You don't have kids going home and crying to his dad because some of the kids in school laughed at him because he didn't have some cool make of computer.

    But you do have kids running home and crying that their parents won't buy them an iPod. The rich high schoolers around me consider it a sort of status symbol.

  172. SPA by BitwizeGHC · · Score: 1

    Back in the day, the SPA's piracy whistleblowing hotline was 1-800-388-PIR8.

    --
    N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
  173. Take a cue from Apple... by kitzilla · · Score: 1

    Can you see it now? The Dalai Lama's smiling face next to a Windows logo and the new MS slogan, "Think the Same." The ultimate in cool, huh?

    --
    This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
  174. Good luck with teenagers. by hethatishere · · Score: 1

    Good luck convincing teenagers it's "cool" to be bloated, ugly, slow, unreliable, finnicky, and have the emotional intelligence of a retarted pygmy chimp. You've gotta work against the rest of the industry projecting an entirely different image. Of course, if anyone has money to throw into a pit, it's Microsoft. Little do they realize how cool it is to trash Windows. Even someone who doesn't know how to eject a floppy takes a few jabs at Microsoft now and then.

    --
    Something intelligent here.
  175. My ideas(TM) about IT in Movies and TV by theolein · · Score: 1

    Almost every single movie I've ever watched has had some Made For Movies OS that has overly large fonts so that viewers don't have to destroy their eyes just as quickly as the poor bastards who bought one of Dell's 1600x1200 15" laptops, no mouse pointer (or a mouse next to the keyboard either for that matter) and has either been used as some sort of personel database or has had overly intelligent 3D GUI that no one in their right mind would use in reality.

    Their have been snippets of real OSes though, I've seen Apple's OS9 GUI used in lots of windowing shots (although it's mostly been Motif kind of hacks built into Macromedia Director) and I've even seen Windows being used a number of times. The most famous real tool I've seen though was Trinity using netstat n the MatrixII.

    Apart from the Windowing hackjobs and over large fonts, the one thing that has often amused me in the last few years is how so many movies still copy some huge database onto a floppy, and how the floppy can handle all those megabytes of data.

    I actually think that the shell with no GUI presents the easiest way to integrate computers into films, as this is where you can make the lines of text plus images in some framebuffer application part of the plot without distracting from the movie. If one wanted to do real life computing in movies, it would probably be goof for comedy moments to have someone cursing over Word crashing again, looking at a BSOD, being totally non-plussed at some overly complex piece of IT, being trashed by a virus because they forgot to update their AV, or one of the dozen or so pieces of things that can happen to you in your normal Windows working day.

    1. Re:My ideas(TM) about IT in Movies and TV by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 1
      Most famous? Maybe.

      But in Jurassic Park- that "This is Unix, I know this" line, contrasting with a weird virtual reality scene? That was TurboGopher 3D on classic MacOS. You can't program or hack it at all, it's just Gopher in a bizarre VR shell :)

  176. Re: The public doesn't care by westlake · · Score: 1

    product placement has become big business and no one gets a free ride

  177. Whatever... by rutledjw · · Score: 1
    How can they? The "cool" geek image is associated with Linux, BSD and other "renegade" technologies.

    MS is looked upon as a corporate monster with the same "coolness" of Ford. Yeah, it's there, it's not going anywhere, but it's not cool. Nobody's going to wear a Micrsoft shirt and look "cool". In comparison, I can wear (certian) Linux, BSD, and (my personal fav) Atari shirts and have a look. So is my criteria for street "cool" being able to wear or show the sign? Yeah, it is. Look at the occasional Apple stickers you see on cars.

    MS will NEVER have that. They may have a great corporate and Wall Street reputation, but trying to get this "image" won't happen...

    --

    Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
    1. Re:Whatever... by gmack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      New MS corporate themesong: "Pretty fly for a white Guy" by Offspring.

      Seriously though, Apple already has the "cool" image MS wants to take. They are in most of the movies and look how much marketshare it got them? The only possible explanation for this is that someone up top is going though a midlife crisis or soemthing.

    2. Re:Whatever... by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 0

      It's not a Microsoft problem. Rather, it is a cultural problem. Nothing that belongs to corporations is looked upon as "cool," usually because it's something everyone has or uses.
      People just regard it as a commodity item, and move on. Toyota won't have a cult following like deLorean. Likewise, Microsoft will never enjoy a fanbase like Apple, or Linux.

      I feel this first-hand. I'm fascinated with cell phones and the technology behind them, but a seach on any search engine only turns up sales stuff.

  178. We can match MS at this game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are there any technologically sophisticated shows, that we GNU/LINUX users can lobby, and convince to showcase 'cool' linux technology?? We could provide a small team of consultants to see that they do it well.

  179. Problem is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    keeping the virus from devouring Windows before they get to the mothership.

  180. Better analogy.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The Windows XP GUI is like a fresh coat of paint on a beat-up old outhouse."

  181. You're way out of touch by bobobobo · · Score: 2
    1. Mass-market by definition cannot be cool.

    Uhh not exactly cool, although they'll never admit to it. Conformity is cool. Kids all act the same damn way. they all try and be different and rebel, all doing it the same way homogenizing their style. Look at how all the white kids follow mass market rap like eminem and so forth.

    All MS needs to do is harness this form of pseduo-mass rebellion. They'll target linux like those trucker hats that were briefly in style. At first rare and cool, now trendy poseur and lame.

    1. Re:You're way out of touch by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      I'm more inclined to believe the "white rapper" complex has more to do with the natural human love of exploring alien cultures. Personally, I love studying other cultures, seeing the insight into humanity each gives in their stories, their language, and their culture in general. Rapper culture is alien. It's different than doing it "because you want to be black", as some inadvertently racist people have said, it's because you naturally want to assimilate this new and interesting culture.

      Maybe I'm just giving humanity to much credit though...

      --
      It's been a long time.
  182. Wake up, dude! by melted · · Score: 1

    They've already done this with XP. I may get modded down for this but in my experience XP has been MORE stable than Linux. From what I know from people who use MacOS X every day, XP is more stable than that lickable POS, too.

  183. Enterprise Software? by jmorse · · Score: 1

    ...Allchin wants to engender a hip, consumer brand image for the company which is largely perceived as an enterprise software company.

    Funny, one doesn't normally think of Microsoft as an enterprise software company. They would actually have to provide enterprise-quality apps for that to happen. NOTE: Internet Explorer and Internet Infiltration Server do not count as enterprise apps. Nor, arguably, do .NET (a framework) or SharePoint (as it relies on IIS).

    --

    "You done taken a wrong turn."
    -Bill McKinney, in Deliverance
  184. Macs on movie sets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another reason Apple computers are in movies and TV shows is because creative types actually use them, so when they need a computer in a shot, that's what they have lying around.

    I often see shots in print ads for other computer companies that use Powerbooks with the Apple logo airbrushed out!

    Plus, Macs look cool. (But we all knew that.)

  185. So the solution for Microsoft is obviously... by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    To stop writers from using Windows - then the feelings of deep hatred will subside (a bit, perhaps at least in a few generations) and they might present a more balanced view.

    Gates says - a round of Powerbooks for the house!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  186. I can wait by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I got that monkey off my back a few years ago. Besides, haven't you heard - Xbox is the poster child for games now. If I want the "hot" games I just need an XBox and a PS2.

    The only game that beckons me much is HL2. But I can stand to wait until it arrives elsewhere, there are plenty of other good games around.

    In the meantime, my Powerbook is far less trouble to work with than any computer I've owned before and certainly less annoying than XP boxes at work I develop on.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  187. umm... by ainsoph · · Score: 1

    Those are super floppies... Jeez! Dont you get that???????? ;)

  188. Enterprise? by thelexx · · Score: 1

    "Allchin wants to engender a hip, consumer brand image for the company which is largely perceived as an enterprise software company"

    Flying reverse backthrash marketing double speak bullshit.

    Summarized: "We're trying to shake the 'enterprise' image in favor of 'cool'"

    Meaning: "We're still trying to be taken seriously at the enterprise level and are going to start speaking and acting as though we already were in order to help the illusion."

    Classical psych warfare tactics. It's win-win for them no matter what with this. Either you buy the enterprise thing and through further marketing maybe actually begin to perceive them as cool, or you simply buy the enterprise statement and are thrown off of examining it by the 'Microsoft, cool?!' cognitive dissonance overriding it. Fucking masterful.

    But don't mind me, I also sell foil hats at the flea market... ;)

    --
    "Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
  189. corporate hip by binarybum · · Score: 1


    concious efforts made by 40yr old+ white, middle-upper class marketing guys tend to not only bomb, they also tend to make for extraordinarly nauseating advertisemnets.
    Have you seen these new rap McDonald's commerecials? I just know that some suit must have stated in a meeting that reaching out to younger crowds via a "hip rap image" would boost sales, and another suit probably exclaimed, "yeah, hip to the extreme!" followed by a subdued laughter amongst the others.

    --
    ôó
  190. Poochy by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

    I predict a return of the Office Assistant... but in a new version with 30% more 'attitude'.

    Hey kids, always reboot. TO THE EXTREME!

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  191. stop writing crappy products by JohnwheeleR · · Score: 1

    Stop writing buggy, insecure, and anti-competetive software. That would be COOL

  192. Balmer dancing to Rolling Stones by konmaskisin · · Score: 1

    ... but have him wear a dark shirt those huge sweating wet pit marks look gross ...

    Total cost 5million$

  193. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was not his own personal Mac -- Apple gave them the computer, and mostly likely paid them for the advertising as well.

  194. Re:Maybe they should look at their TV advertising. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This ad is actually an interesting departure for Microsoft -- they are actually selling directly to the techs in the trenches rather than promoting generics like "reliability" to the PHBs.

  195. Microsoft has done it again. by flacco · · Score: 1

    Just when I thought I didn't have any vomit left in me, Microsoft comes up with this.

    --
    pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
  196. You missed the point of the HP joke by panurge · · Score: 1
    It refers to the "Old" HP. And you mean sushimi, not sushi, an error which is a giveaway that you're misquoting.

    The quote was, if they sold sushimi, they'd describe it as cold, dead, raw Japanese fish.

    The point was, that HP was so good at engineering that they could sell things simply by describing them as they were. If the old HP made sushimi, it would have been superb sushimi.

    Far from a criticism of the marketing department, it was a subtle comment on the "if a man build a better mousetrap...the world will beat a pathway to his door" theme.

    And this thread is to a certain extent demonstrating this. Apple doesn't pay for product placement because, in Hollywood terms, they are perceived as making the better mousetrap. If HP's notebooks computers were still they best mousetraps, or Dell's, they wouldn't need to pay for product placement either.

    --
    Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
  197. In related news, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bill Gates says: Word up, kids!

  198. clippy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What could possibly be more cool than CLIPPY?

  199. Innovation? Errr... Apple... by gothicpoet · · Score: 1
    Okay, I really hate taking a chance on sounding like an Apple Evangelista. I admit to owning an old G3 which I haven't used in quite a while. My work place is standardized around Windows. But...

    Aren't they just borrowing (I'm sorry "innovating") from Apple's playbook of about two years ago?

    For quite a while there you could hardly see someone use a computer without it being a Powerbook or sometimes a Apple PowerMac G4.

    Given Microsoft's usual ideas of what's "cool" (everyone looks like a young male or female clone of Bill Gates - remember some of their previous commercials) this could actually turn out to have some serious comic potential.

    --
    Quoth he ::
    "It's all academic anyway..."
  200. Note to Jim Allchin by El · · Score: 1

    Best way to be perceived as cool: make products that don't suck. Assuming that marketing and product placement can substitute for quality is extremely insulting to your target audience! You're not selling to teenage kids, you are selling to businesses -- marketing your product like Coke or Nike simply isn't going to work!

    --

    "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  201. US Version of Coupling by spectecjr · · Score: 1

    ... in it, the main characters are playing Halo on an XBOX. I'm not sure if that's marketing, or a tip of the hat.

    --
    Coming soon - pyrogyra
    1. Re:US Version of Coupling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the UK version has a character playing on a Playstation 2, and the word "Playstation" is actually spoken.

      The UK version of the show is far superior, anyway. I'm hoping the US version ends soon, so that it's not an embarassment to say "I watch Coupling" any more.

  202. Re:Cool can be manufactured 4 segment of the marke by OneEyedApe · · Score: 1

    Kinda funny, considering Metallica covered that song on garage inc.

    --
    Life sucks, but death doesn't put out at all....
    --Thomas J. Kopp
  203. Active Directory setup is apparently exhausting by TheInternet · · Score: 1

    The guy asks what's the party, at which point the head IT guy explains how they had magically consolidated the Active Directory groups from 70 to 4 thus

    The funny thing about this too is that the IT guy looks completely worn out from his ordeal with the Microsoft software. Do you really want the type of software that suggests a party is in order after setup is complete?

    I guess it's supposed to make the IT people feel empowered.

    - Scott

    --
    Scott Stevenson
    Tree House Ideas
  204. Snobbery for the juvenile by Loundry · · Score: 1

    You people are confusing the appearance of coolness with actual coolness.

    10,000,000 pierced-and-tattooed kids buy into the newest thing, be it shoes, clothing, electronics, whatever. They buy it because they think it is "cool". Corporate execs contgratulate themselves and give big bonuses to their marketroids for sucessfully manufacturing "coolness" (and making money off it, too!).

    "But no!" you say, "That's not true coolness. Only I (and my truly cool friends) know what 'cool' truly is."

    You can proclaim this with confidence because you are just much more intelligent, hip, street-smart, and cultured than those 10,000,000 other pierced-and-tattooed dolts who fell into the latest marketing blitz. In other words, you're a snob.

    Don't misunderstand me: there's nothing inherently wrong with being "snobbish" in the sense of having well-developed taste. To prove that I believe this, I'll show my own snobbery. I, for one, know gobs more about good cuisine than millions of hot-dog-and-american-cheese-eating Americans.

    But "true coolness"? Give me a break! The whole notion of that which is "cool" is almost completely the realm of the young and inexperienced. It exists as a means by which young and inexperienced people win favor with their peer group.

    --
    I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    1. Re:Snobbery for the juvenile by adarn · · Score: 1

      No, you totally misunderstand. I'm not saying that *I* know what coolness is. I'm saying that coolness is not static, and can't be pinned down or bought. Just because the notion of cool has been commodified doesnt mean that it doesnt exist in its pure form any more. Are you telling me you never thing anything is cool? Or that when you do it is just because its image has been sold to you? No, you probably find something you think is cool for its own merit every single day.

    2. Re:Snobbery for the juvenile by Loundry · · Score: 1

      No, you totally misunderstand. I'm not saying that *I* know what coolness is. I'm saying that coolness is not static, and can't be pinned down or bought.

      I'm with you so far.

      Just because the notion of cool has been commodified doesnt mean that it doesnt exist in its pure form any more.

      You claim that "coolness" has a "pure form", yet you deny that you know what "coolness" is. If you don't know what it is, then how do you know that it has a "pure form"?

      Are you telling me you never thing anything is cool? Or that when you do it is just because its image has been sold to you? No, you probably find something you think is cool for its own merit every single day.

      Strawman. Perhaps you and I should agree as to what one means when one describes something as "cool". I use "cool" to describe new technology that I think is exciting. Kids use "cool" to describe the ability to win their peers' attention and appreciation in their juvenile social circles.

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
  205. So, how does this work? by mpaque · · Score: 1
    Does some spokesperson appear in an exciting new commercial and make a speech along the lines of:
    Today, we celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directives. We have created, for the first time in all history, a garden of pure ideology where each worker may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory and confusing truths. Our Unification of Thoughts is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on earth. We are one people, with one will, one resolve, one cause. Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion. We shall prevail!
  206. Yep. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    That's the only insightful post in this thread.

  207. That won't work by TLouden · · Score: 1

    Instead of buying more MS stuff people well watch less of those shows.

    --
    -Tim Louden
  208. Latest computer on Jerry Seinfeld's Desk by Cowclops · · Score: 1

    In the last season, Jerry had a 20th Anniversay Mac. That system was released in May of '97 (20th anniversary of Apple, not 20th anniversary of the Mac itself...) so it makes chronological sense that he'd have one in the '97-'98 final season. More info at http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/tam.shtml.

  209. Mod this UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    n/t

  210. Cool? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have it deliver alcohol to my house sans ID. Have it give me a spycam in the local sorrority's shower. Why not a complementry subscription to hustler? Preinstalled Quake would be nice too.

  211. Well, Now They've Blown It by istartedi · · Score: 1

    They're trying to be cool. Everybody knows that's not cool. What a bunch of dorks.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  212. They can cahnge the Matrix script... by ayjay29 · · Score: 1

    .. Next version:

    "The prohpesy will be forfilled soon, but before it can be, the SQL Server must be consulted."

    --
    Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
    1. Re:They can cahnge the Matrix script... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could cut down Reloaded's running time by re-editing it to show the power plant run by Windows machines. Then Trinity could penetrate the security in a few seconds.

  213. It's sashimi, no sushimi by gilgongo · · Score: 1

    ... but we get the joke anyway.

    And BTW, I have conducted a study of my video and DVD collection and can tell you that in fact, WinTel PCs feature in approx 30% of films that show computers (that can be classified as being either Mac or WinTel).

    But 45% of *all* films showing computers used mocked-up interfaces on non-specific hardware.

    The study looked at approx 65 films made in the last 10-15 years.

    --
    "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
  214. People in Hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...Want Ice Water... how does it feel to want, Gates?

  215. Spelling? by Solokron · · Score: 1

    MacDonalds? Is that like MacDowells?

    --
    30% off web hosting. Coupon code "SLASHDOT".
  216. heh... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

    What happened Microsoft? I thought you were cool, but then you sold out.

    Microsoft still cool, BSA audit later! LATER!

    --
    It's been a long time.
  217. Re:MI-5 too (spoiler-beware!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will not reveal the ending, but let's just say its not pretty.

    No kidding...hehe...KA-BOOM!

  218. Where can I download that video clip from? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where can I download that video clip from?

  219. yeah, and then they'll have to rewrite the scripts by Stevyn · · Score: 1

    Once they push windows on the computers, america's favorite idiots Monica and Chandler will be shown updating and patching their machines before the next big "email" worm comes. The chainsmoking monkeys at their typewriters over at NBC could easily make a show about those wacky windows boxes.

  220. Take That Uninterested Public! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More .Net Server 2003 ads...

  221. I agree with almost everything you say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except when you say its cheap. I remember back in the day when I actually paid for M$ crap, you could get DOS 5.1 for around $50.00 US. Try to get XP for that price. I know ... I know ... Inflation ... but still, I think their price has grown more than inflation has.

    1. Re:I agree with almost everything you say by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 0

      To some consumers, yes Microsoftware (boy, I love that) is expensive, but at the enterprise level, it's like shopping at Wal-Mart vs. Gucci.

  222. CSI by Zepalesque · · Score: 1

    The new MS mouse with the horizonal scroll-wheel got quite the blatant placement in last week's episode of CSI.

    So much for product placement being subtle.

  223. Microsoft cool? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    I don't know about anybody else, but have you seen Bill Gates? If his image isn't the epitome of un-cool, I don't know what is. What else does Microsoft have? Ballmer? Allchin? Geez, I would bet Alan Greenspan and Henry Kissinger could pick up more super models than whole lot of Microsoft.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  224. Ha! by mormop · · Score: 1

    When Trinity uses NMap, they haven't got a chance.

    --
    Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
  225. McDonald's is Hip? by PetoskeyGuy · · Score: 1

    The greasy hamburger place that makes you sick after you eat it? When did this happen? Why wasn't I informed?

    *sigh*

    I'm so out of touch.

  226. Only Way MS Has a Shot to look cool on TV by kalidasa · · Score: 1
    Is to get VirtualPC running on the G5.

    Oh, wait a minute, they'll just replace the OS on the shots of the screen with Windows screen shots. Never mind.

  227. Let them screw themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All you Linux fanboys should just shut the hell up and let Microsoft shoot itself in the foot with this ridiculous "product placement" campaign.

  228. .....k.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Open source Windows under the BSD license and give away your billion dollar bank account to promote Open Source software....
    THEN YOU WOULD BE COOL!!!!!

    But in reality, don't do product placements, seeing more of a bad thing is not cool.

  229. Bill Gates A Real Hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people don't seem to realize that Bill Gates is a real American Hero and is single-handedly standing up against all those foreign goverments by forcing them to hand over their money to the United States for the benefit of United States Citizens. And he is doing this year after year. Who else would be that brave among all of you whining bablers.

  230. Taste by YouHaveSnail · · Score: 1

    Back when he was Apple's "interim CEO," Steve Jobs observed in an interview that Microsoft's problem is that they have no taste.

    I think Steve's right. But I also think that Microsoft is a victim of its own success. They've go such a large share of the market as it is, they've really got nowhere to go but down. Anything they produce with any sort of style is likely to offend or otherwise displease some of their users, so they end up with products that chart new territory in the field of blandness.

    Going around being afraid to displease anyone is no way to be cool.

  231. Re: The public doesn't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Riiight. It is big business. But it's not always paid for.

    Apple doesn't have an army of product placement people running around making deals. Their product placement department has hovered in the 2-3 personnel range for almost a decade. 2-3 people can't line up tens of thousands of product placements each year.

    Apple didn't pay one dime to have a Mac in Seinfeld's apartment. Jerry wanted it there. Apple did give them a newer Mac to put there later in the series, but the initial one was his.

    Creative types, more often than not, use Macs. Creative types are the ones writing, producing, and making films/shows. They will, more often than not, grab a computer lying around to put in a shot. You know, like the ones they're using to work on the movie/show.

    Now that Microsoft has decided to open the checkbook and start wheeling and dealing, I'm sure that freeswheeling attitude will be killed mercilessly by the bean counters.

    But, by the other hand, the FCC is looking into the vast array of product placements going on. Microsoft could have come too late to this ballgame to get into it before the doors slam shut. At which point, the creative types will do what they've always done - grab an available system and go with it. No money exchanges hands, a computer is simply where it's supposed to be - in the shot.

  232. WOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a story... can't believe it.

  233. Re:Maybe they should look at their TV advertising. by Poeir · · Score: 1

    And on top of all that, there's a clock in the background. It says 5:10, if I remember right.

    --
    Sigs are like bumper stickers.
  234. Electric-blue screen of death? by IchBinEinPenguin · · Score: 1

    so much way cooler than the old plain-blue screen of death.

  235. Evil is cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, everybody knows that Microsoft is evil and Star Wars has shown us that evil is cool.

    So with Ballmer dressed like Darth Vader and Bill Gates as Emperor Dart Sidious, who wouldn't love Microsoft?

  236. Re:MI-5 too (spoiler-beware!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Wintel laptops are used as Trojan Horses filled with C4"

    But only Macs have system bombs...

  237. MTV? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If MTV VJ's are the yardstick of cool, then I'm glad i'm not cool.

    MTV is total piss, 24 hours a day.

  238. Might just work for them... by javamutt · · Score: 1

    I would LOVE to find a way to convince myself that this just won't go anywhere for them. Unfortunately, I think it might work - take script kiddies as an example. They don't get the art of hacking, they just want to be able to brag about what they did (not how they did it). It's soul-less.

    I think that's how a lot of computing is today. How it looks is very important to people who've never been exposed to the alternatives. I used to actually like Windows (I know - not good to say on /) until I went to college and hung out with a dude who showed me slackware. Until you know there's another road, you never notice the bumps in the one you're on.

    As much as Linux is making impressive progress, I don't think that road has been mapped yet for the masses. I hope I'm wrong though!

  239. To be cool, you have to be like Debian. by Baloo+Ursidae · · Score: 1
    Oh, yeah. And it doesn't hurt if your apt has
    super cow powers.
    --
    Help us build a better map!
  240. Re:Microsoft Wants to Project "Cool" Image by jo42 · · Score: 1

    Ha! Ha!! Ha!!!
    Hee! Hee!! Hee!!!
    Har! Har!! Har!!!

    I just pissed myself laughing...

    The funniest thing I've heard all year.

  241. I wish'em luck. by pmz · · Score: 1


    A Chevette tricked out with a spoiler, ground effects, and a resonater is still a Chevette.

    --
    Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
  242. Sorry by 4of12 · · Score: 1

    All the money in the world cannot make something so ubiquitous as Windows into something "cool". Microsoft was sort of cool for, maybe, a couple of years in the early 1980's. Like it not, they're solidly placed in the embrace of corporate stodginess.

    If it's a cool, it's not everyday.

    If Macs or Linux were to become more commonplace than they are currently, then their coolness would disappear, too.

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
  243. awwww, i can see it now... by LifesABeach · · Score: 0

    how about this tv pitch?

    a show with teenagers as normal daytime school kids, but at night the're "SCRIPT KIDDIES FROM 'CHATSWORTH, CA'".

    these kids get into TODAY'S kind of troubles, like well using m$, and dream of being super hero's and stuff.

    isn't this how Angela Boulee got her start?

  244. my agism - shouldn't the Stones retire? by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 1

    "I love the Stones...can't believe they're stilling doing it after all these years...Fred & Barney..."
    -Stephen Wright

    I agree with you about posing. But I think this ad campaign is a completely wrong-headed approach to coopting symbols. It just won't work, I think.

    I think the rock experience is visceral in its nature, and the cadillac car line exists pretty much just for rendering driving a not-visceral experience. It's like getting in a boat ride at an amusement park. Floating. A Lawrence Welk kind of thing. (The design for the previous line of cadillacs was bloated and puffy, like something that had died and been left in the sun for a few days.) You can't just change the soundtrack and expect the identity to change, especially when the essentials haven't. It just associates Led Zep with the polka-meister.

    Compare that to a Miata, which is not a sports car. It's a roadster. It's not fast, but it feels like it. It handles nimbly, at the price of a certain visceral relationship with the act of driving. No cozy womb enclosure, no yearning for status...That's a car whose characteristics track with an adventurous self-perception.

    Head bangers probably find it too effete, but they're usually found in muscle cars. I don't have much direct experience with those things.

    Dunno - maybe we'll construct our personalities and identities through our purchases as much as many Japanese. We've already got Civil War re-enactors, and, much the same thing, yuppies on Harleys.

    Did you see "Syd and Nancy" - a biopic about Sid Vicious of the Sex Pistols? A black guy tells his friends he's tired of being a Punk. "What are you going to be, then?" "A Rude Boy."

    You gotta be something, I guess.

    And I think the Stones should retire because, well, they suck. They were pretty awful at the beginning of their career when they were doing blues covers - how did they get gigs? They were quite strong for about 15 years after that, then Bianca Jagger did some evil voodoo on them or something and turned them into zombies. David Bowie should retire, too. I have no problem with folks playing the same songs for 40 years- if that's the best song you can play, do so.

  245. The Burger King strategy by babbage · · Score: 1

    Coming to this discussion late, but what the hell...

    In some of my business classes in college, we were taught about McDonald's & Burger King as a case study in marketing approaches.

    • McDonald's, it seems, has a huge research budget for making sure that any new store will be in a profitable neighborhood, with adequate traffic flow & other resources in the area, so that the new store will do well.
    • Burger King, on the other hand, waits for McDonald's to open up a store, then they build one next door. This may guarantee that they're never first, but it also saves the from the bother of having to keep up the research department.

    The same seems to be going on here. The ubiquitous references to Apple products in movies & TV shows is very well known. However, there is a perception that this is just spontaneous -- Apple hardware just looks better than more or less any Wintel box, so of course that's what gets used for props, right? Not exactly...

    Quoting from a Wired article I just read:

    Garrett Beauvais, a marketing executive at Advanced Micro Devices, which makes chips for PCs, suggested that's Apple's famously vigorous product-placement efforts are the source of the plot device.

    "Apple Computer outspends all other PC companies in product placement and is perhaps more active in the area than any other technology company outside of Microsoft," Beauvais wrote.

    That article was from May 2002. The implication is clear: [a] the "spontaneous" placement of Apple products in all these shows is not a coincidence, and [b] it seems that Microsoft has been trying to emulate Apple's success here for a long time.

    Apple is playing the McDonald's role, Microsoft is Burger King.

    The only wrinkle is that McDonald's is much larger than Burger King (I'm not sure what the spread is, but it's significant), and Apple is something like 20 times smaller than Microsoft -- at least in terms of market share.

    Still, it's clear what roles they're trying to follow.

    --
    DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
  246. Re: The public doesn't care by texaport · · Score: 1

    I almost never saw some "average Joe" buy a new Apple system
    and then comment about it being "the same one shown in movie Z"

    There is no honest reply to this statement that could be construed as anything but flamebait.

    So I'll stick to the original story comments about McDonald's attempting cool commercials ...
    their cartoonish portrayal of minority actors exceeds the actual comical Joe Camel campaign.

    --
    Offtopic but worth it

  247. the ultimate expression of MS "coolness" by alizard · · Score: 1

    Probably the Monkeyboy rock video made by a friendly, helpful Mac user. Sorry, don't have the URL offhand... but if MS wants to see just how far they can possibly go to make MS "cool" and how little it will get them, THEY need to find a copy.

    --
    Tech Public Policy stuff
  248. Re:Since when - "cool"'s road to "popular" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a wannabe

  249. Re:Maybe they should look at their TV advertising. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they are actually selling directly to the techs in the trenches rather than promoting generics like "reliability" to the PHBs.

    They are? I saw the ad (and Apple would have chosen a color scheme that was cool, not techs wearing shirts the same color as walls in Barney Miller's office). What I got out of the ad was, "Don't worry about the [technobabble], it saves us millions of dollars." That directly targets PHBs, not techs.

    If the ad was aimed at techs, it must have been aimed at techs who are very different from me. It left me wondering how many millions they could have avoided spending to begin with if they went in a directory service protocol that didn't force them to buy 70 windows servers to implement. I remember the same kinds of "testimonials" in the windows 2000 ads. It's like GM bragging about how much you can save on this year's model compared to how much they fleeced you for last year instead of comparing itself to a competitor.

  250. Re:Since when - "cool"'s road to "popular" by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1

    Everyone is a "Wannabe" in some way or another. Its just how much you are willing to accept that fact.

    --
    The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.