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Ford Testing a New 'Traffic Monitoring' Device
Poletown writes "The Detroit Free Press put out this article today about a new vehicle based 'traffic monitoring' system that Ford is testing. It will report your speed, the road temperature, whether or not your wipers/headlights are active, and even if you've used your anti-lock brakes. Initially, the system will be tested on Ford-owned and municipal vehicles."
Quick! Someone make me a hat!
it does all that but it doesn't drive yet!??
but seriously, what use is a traffic monitoring system - if you live in an area REALLY hit by traffic (i live near Central London, UK), there is usually almost no way to avoid it! what's the use unless you're a long distance commuter, or want to decide whether to use subway/underground or car
tim
no more tittie bar lunches for the Public Works sand trucks anymore I guess...
*shrug*
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Good idea but it won't work, here's why. This essentialy puts in real time monitoring information from your car's computer to a relay device that collates and condenses the information. In thoery this could allow more localized reporting conditions such as areas where a certain valley with a river can have weather different than the sorrounding community and so on. The article doesn't note if this is GPS enabled or not, but it would inevitably happen sooner or later.
But it wont work because if a device can tell if your antilock brakes are working it can just as easily tell if your speeding or any other number of big brother activities. This information could be relayed to your local municipality and insurance company. Imagine discovering that you've gotten a speeding ticket and your insurance rates went up before you even finished driving home.
This would be a very effective privacy erosion and people will rebel with the inevitable horror stories that would follow. Your boss could find out if you go drinking on the weekend, and so on. Imagine anyone being able to use this "public" information to stalk or harass someone. Since the information would reported to municipalities, it would by definition be public unless legislated otherwise.
Now, you could make it work, and it could produce very nice real time results. If several thousand cars all suddenly come to a crawl where traffic conditions wouldn't otherwise call for it an automated dispatch to 911 could be sent to find out why - there's probably a good reason for it. The problem is that you have to find a way of reporting the information in aggragate and without the ability to uniquely identify where it's coming from. If it can be uniquely identified it will be subponead by some lawyer and abused.
Microsoft will soon take away Ford's glory, Bill vs Henry round two with Traffodata 04.
Nerd history of the Traffodata is located in Fire in the Valley, a great computer history book.
This would be cool if there was some way to hook up your own home PC and access the data. You could write cool python scripts to visualize your commute to work, etc.
When I have kids, I'll expect updates on all their cars' data at regular intervals.
I can't decide whether to praise this kind of "innovation" for the convenience, or to complain about the possibilities for abuse. I know we'll hear plenty of both - but I'll lean toward praising this for now. Technology will always be abused, and complaining about basically harmless things and their potential for evil is not generally productive.
Hey, why not? GM sells cars that do a pretty good job of spying on the driver, and people buy it for this excellent "feature." And to them, it is a feature. It just takes some good marketing spin.
If every single car being made had something like this, then there would be cause for concern. Otherwise, just don't buy the cars that have this if you don't want it. Simple.
You probably shouldn't click this.
This can potentially further clog the microwave/radio spectrum, depending on the range of these sensors. Also, unless some standard exists/is applied, competing manufacturers could select different protocols, leading to a babel of messages, and more traffic jams rather than less
It could have some good use as an anti-theft device.
No comments on the Orwellian overtones of the original post
i think this will encounter the same privacy issues as the intelligent billboards.
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
This is government-funded, so they are going to be seeing the data at some time. What is to stop them from sending a ticket in the mail from the information they collected?
...don't question it!!!
From the article: "Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."
uh... it could also signal that my Mom is at the wheel...
No man is an island, but Gary is a city in Indiana.
the ECU in a modern car already logs half of those things listed. The data from your ECU can be used against you in court. I can see this becoming a full production line "feature"
See Sig! See Sig Zig! Zig Sig Zig!!!!!
The devices on them would collect traffic-related data including vehicle
speed, location and which direction the vehicle is heading.
So long as they remain voluntary, and can be turned off...
<grrr>
Initially, the system will be tested on Ford-owned and municipal vehicles.
Later it will be tested in your molars or subcutaneously.
While I'm sure most will comlain about the lack of privacy, or the slippery slope of collecting such data and the danger of it eventualyl being used to issue tickets, I find it's an interesting approach.
It would potentially give better a better idea about traffic congenstion and weather conditions. It beats trying to set up a bunch of "stations" near highways to monitor traffic and weather in different places.
In the end, though, I don't see it flying. Too many people will be against it and the benefits will probably not justify the costs.
HUGE privacy issue. Aren't they wanting to implement something similar in the UK? (I cannot locate a link for it right now.)
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Hopefully this will help getting the speeding jerks off our roads. Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind having completely remote-computer controlled cars in our lifetime.
The owls are not what they seem
I used to do EPA/OSHA type building inspections.
Once I was asked to do some inspection work on a DOT (department of transportation) site, and they had just finished installing (and monitoring) useage of their DOT vehicles.
I was there when the output was generated. The DOT devices monitored how long the vehicles were in motion, how far they traveled, how fast, how long they stopped and using a GPS, where exactly they were at any given time.
The workmen knew nothing of this installation until that point in time.
The moral? The crews weren't doing what they were supposed ot be doing (running about filling potholes) and instead (as found by the GPS) were down at a local bar and grill, drinking it up.
So they were fired.
Sure, they probably deserved it, but should they have been fired in this manner? This device *sounds* like it could be used for *exactly* that.
Something to think about.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
I'm not going to be car owner anymore...
Now I'm just going to be a user of the Ford Mobile Traffic Network.
But I bet I'll be allowed to opt-out... If I can fill out all the paperwork.
and wanting all this information about me? Ford wants to know this...Bud Light wants to know that...
And yet when I give these companies the information I WANT them to know about, they shred my resume.
Don't you love how the world works?
Will it start honking and blinking in the middle of the road if I forget to turn on the wipers after 30 seconds of rain?
I am too lazy to link to the article I am referencing.
The "intelligent roadway" concept sounds all gee-whiz and cool, but the fact still remains that it's we, the drivers, who are responsible for both the volume and the density of traffic. Our being on the roads in the first place generates the volume, and our need to get "there" first generates the density.
Someone posted a link to this site about how one driver can singlehandedly eliminate traffic waves simply by not driving like a nut. I've tried it, and it's not difficult, but I can't imagine convincing my wife to let a gap open up in front of her... there's something in human nature that rebels at the thought of someone else getting ahead of you in line.
My prediction: If these devices and systems lead to more efficient roads, then there will simply be more people on the roads. The end result will be *worse* congestion than before. That's why building new expressways is so futile -- you just can't build your way out of gridlock. [Insert mass transit rant here]
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
I can just imagine Ford's lawyer's contacting my mechanic for violating the DMCA by diabling my monitoring equipment. I can't WAIT for this stuff to come out :P
This would be an improvement, but it has 2 bad sides:
1) The implied privacy issues. Is my car going to identifiy itself?
2) The main problem with traffic is not the lack of information or infrastructure, but the lack of education people has.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
we'll eventually see a modchip which disables or changes this monitor soon. so you can buy a Ford or a Ford with modchip.
Here in Montreal, they buried a bunch of sensors into the ground under the major highways. These sensors track in realtime the flow of traffic, so you can have an instant glimpse at the entire network's traffic status, and find out where to avoid. For now it's a small portion of the roads, but it's already proven to be very effective. Can't wait until more roads have that and the map! See it here.
At the stage this is at, the Ford project seems fairly helpful. Being able to avoid traffic and stuff like that would be very helpful. However, due to privacy issues and the like, im pretty sure this won't catch on. Getting caught for going 3 over the speed limit, by your own car none the less, would probably convince people to stay away from the smarter cars.
Skill is successfully walking a tightrope over Niagara Falls. Intelligence is not trying. -- Anonymous
Sure, you could put multiple monitoring devices in millions of cars, along with transmitting technology and a network of satellites, backed up by a network of computers to process the data and generate reports, all to show that there is a traffic jam on the Triboro bridge. Or you could point one cheap webcam at the same bridge and get a better, faster, more accurate assessment of the conditions.
Wow... I can't say how much this kind of thing scares me. As an advocate for privacy, I don't want people to be able to follow my every move.
/me shudders
I realize, of course, that there are benefits of being able to track cars. Finding stolen cars, keeping unsafe drivers off the road, et cetera, but sometimes you have to sacrifice all these things for the rights of the individual. Our culture has a tendency to take ideas with good intentions and take them to dangerous extremes. Take bias censorship in schools, for example. There are extensive rules that publishing companies have in place so as not to offend children. It started in 1970 as a way to keep racism and homophobia out of schools, but is to the point where you can't mention, for example, a blind man overcoming his disability and climbing a mountain. According to these bias guidelines, that kind of statement could offend blind children.
What is the next step after this? Tracking devices implanted under the skin? Big Brother is watching you.
--Nycto
This is going to be installed in municipal vehicles and police cars, not your vehicle. Relax everyone.
Good luck figuring out traffic patterns by putting this in police cars. The police by me are either sitting by the side of the road looking for speeders and HOV lane violators, or they're cutting through traffic in the disabled vehicle lane.
This sounds like a good idea, but i see it being used in all the wrong ways. Cops would no longer have to catch someone speeding, they would just have to link the illegal speed with the vehical and send the ticket in the mail. Any government could track were certain citizens are (or rather their cars) at any time. I wonder how long it would take someone to put linux on one of these systems. It would be a pretty tight mobile computer.
Sounds great, but what good will a system like this be if it will break down in the first year of purchase? Isn't that follow in the Ford tradition? ;-)
Funny, i just use ethereal or etherape to monitor traffic.
"The computer says what? Why, that must be wrong. We were just eating at that Denny's next door. I don't know, sir. If you can't prove it either way, I guess you'll just have to trust us."
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
Might as well put that chip inside my brain so it can sense my stress/roadrage levels and turn my car off if I get too violent.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
FORD = Found on road dead
FORD = Fucker only runs downhill
FORD backwards is an acronym for "Driver Returns On Foot."
FORD = First On Recall Day
FORD = Fix Or Repair Daily
FORD = For Oversized Rednick Dicks
Ford Acronyms
Maybe this will finally be a way to put an end to lame excuses and loopholes for getting out of traffic violations.
Un-news
Relax people, it's a Ford!
It's not as if any of these vehicles will actually be running long enough to collect any data against their owners.
Yes, your issues are true for personal vehicles. However, in the case of fleet vehicles, where the person doesn't get a choice if it's on or not, I could see it being quite helpful.
In fact, I know a few people whose work vehicles will report to their employer when they showed up at the work site (construction related field). This is just an extension to that.
You're automatically assuming that 'consumer' means 'private citizen' which it may not be. I can see significant demand for this for fleet vehicles, especially if it can be correlated to GPS or some of the other monitor systems that already exist.
Public works vehicles would be a prime candidate for this, as it could give indicators where potholes are, or snow problems, or flooded roads. Radio and TV stations might put it in their vehicles, so they could improve their traffic reporting.
It might move to private vehicles, if there were incentives. Maybe discounts on your insurance, or taxes, or the like, but I don't see people just jumping out and wanting it on their own, for the very reasons you stated.
And it's entirely possible that they'll be put in without people knowing about it, such as the black boxes that record airbag data, or forced to be in there by law [all vehicles in the state of must have them], similar to emissions controls, which help the general population, but not the individual user.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Because the tracking target is positioned just off to the side of the road and not moving.
Actually, it was Tele Aid, Mercedes's version of the system. And the practice has been suspended, but not for privacy reasons.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
Unfortunately, people won't rebel because they won't take it upon themselves to build cars without said devices, and that's even assuming that the Law allows cars to be manufactured without all that stuff anyway. What will happen is that people will just say, "That sucks! Oh, well, I want a car...."
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
whether you've EVER USED YOUR DAMN TURN SIGNALS. And then ejects you from the car if you're unable to.
Rental car agencies are already exploiting GPS tracking devices for uncapped profit (eg. bouncing a $250 rental fee to $3.4k). I wonder how long it will take them to exploit this one so they can charge penalties for ... oh ... not using your blinker, leaving the dome light on when the car is off, and perhaps even for not flipping down the sun visors. Y'know, 5 minutes of harsh sunlight can really wreak havoc on unprotected automotive uphostlery, and possibly increase the maintenance cost for a vehicle by a full $0.000000005!!
Now the device will be able to verify that FORD is/was Found On Road DEAD.
Lizard "Never let them set limits on your mind!"
Blackboxes which provide data about what might have happened already exist for cars. There have been numerous court cases regarding the privacy issues surrounding it's uses, mostly because drivers have no clue they exist in their cars. Apparently Ford and GM have been doing this since the 90s. So Ford is probably just taking their technology a step further.
We have found that GNUvrolet is illegally using our IP in their products. We can't obviously tell you where or what, but it's there, beleive us, we are SCOFord.
:(
But, Since we love you, we won't private you from getting to work. You can go now over our site and buy our license to use SCO-GNUvrolet. The licenses will be distributed in a Per-User basis.
Solution: everyone will end up using bikes
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
That Ford is putting their efforts where it counts. Realize gas prices are reaching $3/gallon this summer.
And that production of oil won't keep up with demand?
What does that mean? Skyrocketing oil prices. Noone making less than 50K will be driving in any traffic at this rate.
Say it pans out, most cars have it and traffic congestion is tracked.
A computer could check out the roads and propose detours to your route.
Not that I'd want to code it.
God spoke to me
Whoops... I thought you had mentioned the FBI stuff (actaul spying) I linked to, but you were just talking about spying in general. Pretty much all systems are capable of spying.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
"A market is never saturated with a good product, but it is very quickly saturated with a bad one."
--Henry Ford
Rental car companies use GPS to clock your speed or location and fine you for speeding or leaving the geographic area covered by your contract. Red light cameras dole out tickets (usually through some government contracting company). EZ-Pass toll systems can help track the movements of drivers. The microprocessors in your car can provide data to help determine fault in auto accidents. I won't even get into OnStar. Sheesh, next thing you know, Anheuser-Busch will be tracking your drinking habits - oh wait. Imaging linking those databases.
With a simple identification code in each Ford car, the freedom of movement in the U.S. could become very expensive. To me, it's almost more frightening that so many of these functions (and this data) is in private hands than if it were the government getting it itself.
There will be (actually already is) a flurry of legal wrangling to determine: (1) how the private companies can use this (i.e., when they can disclose or sell it); and (2) under what circumstances the government can get to it and use it.
It will need to be Fixed Or Repaired Daily. If not, it will be Found On Road Dead soon enough.
TallGreen CMS hosting
What I want to know is when there will be mandatory IQ tests for owning and operating a vehicle?
Remember kids...preview your posts or you'll end up looking like an ass that can't type and/or spell, like I did.
How nice! Our big government brother got himself a little corporate brother.
Congratulations.
Am i crazy or is this the same this as the OnStar that GM has been running for the past 4 years or so. Come on seriously what is the big deal with this when there is a system out that already could be moded to do the same thing and it has been around a heck of a lot longer. GrEEn
That which causes outrage today is commonplace tomorrow...
Technology is like fire... if you don't keep a careful eye on it and keep it under control, what was your servant becomes your master...
That's all I'm saying... make sure such useful technology doesn't become abused... It's a duty to those who wish to remain free.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
It's a bunch of BS to get people to let this big brother in the car.. then ZAM it'll start to be abused.. Just like OnStar was. OnStar gor saved via a tecnical detail, but if they had multiple audio out channels, it's still be abused today.
The fact is, it's US thats the problem. We employ a greedy and not cooperative strategy on the roads. They did research around here, and they found that all the highways were completely cpable of handling the volume of traffic at rush hour. It's out driving that creates backups.
And don't get me started about RUBBERNECKERS! ARH.
People here are some tips:
1) Don't rummberneck, mangled metal is fun, but it's none of your business.
2) Don't tail gate, leave good room. Tailgating makes you slam on your brakes, so the guy behind you needs to slam arder, and so on, until people are locking up anc causing more accidents.
3) When in a backup let the gap be made. Don't floor it to the next guys bumper then brake hard 1) it wastes gas 2) you repeat #2. I've seen "averagers" - peopel who average the flow out create a huge difference. And I think we all rather me slow and steady rather than stop-and -go. If you are a stop and go person: remember: 1) all that gas used to get up to speed gets wasted when you put on your brakes, 2) you waste more brakes killing the effect of overusing gas 3) you create more changes in speed which is more changes for a rear-end collision by another unattentive driver. We handle things if they are steady.
4) Get over early. You having to slow down your lane so you can get over in a hurry, slows down your lane and causes others to change lanes.
5) minimize lane changes. Each one is a time when you a leagally vulderable. When you change lanes, right of way is with the person who is already there. And we all know about 2 people, one moveing left, the other right, that don't see each other.
That shoudl take care of 90% of the problems on the road.
Thank you.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Let me see, the same company that is currently producing a ~400 hp SVT Cobra is going to want a report on how fast I'm going? Why, I'm going the legal speed limit! Of course! Seriously, I intend on picking up my Cobra and driving directly to an auto parts store to get the mod chip that transmits a nice fake signal to Ford.
SVT COBRA VIN#12345
WINDSHIELD WIPERS:OFF
HEADLIGHTS: OFF
SPEED: YOUR MOTHER
stuff |
For Ford SUVs, it will also report if the vehicle is upside-down.
There is no point for every driver on the highway to have this system in their car. Afterall, the car next to you is not likely to report anything different than what you're reporting at any given time.
However, think of this usage. A local radio and TV station operation offers to pay to have this system installed in 2000 volunteer's cars, and those people are paid $250 or so a year to participate. Suddenly, this station will have a a very informative realtime traffic system, because as odds are one of their spotters will be delayed by any rainstorm or lane closure. What's more, the spotters don't have to do anything active to report that they've been stopped or slowed, since the system phones in their reports for them.
There's no need for everybody's privacy to be violated, because this doesn't need a census, just a sample. If a few people are willing to give up some privacy, the whole public can benefit from the data collected in the form of better traffic advisories.
I really don't see how this will have any impact on traffic. You may know everything about the status of the vehicles but how is that going to lessen the load of traffic? Seems to me it would be just as effective to install sensors along the roadway that monitor traffic flow and suggest re-routes as needed. Really this is just another way for big brother to watch us.
Oh, BTW, for all you Ford haters out there, my '82 Ford Bronco is still running after 215 thousand miles. Never had any major work other than replacing the oil pump. Environmentalists procede with the flaming on my gas guzzling beast, but I do live in New Mexico and take my car off road all the time, I don't own an SUV just because they're cool or big.
-- Is it a right to remain ignorant? -- Calvin
This explains why there will soon be popular restaurants within 15 meters of every strip club with a 95% accuracy. (Who goes to inaccurate strip clubs anyway?)
There seems to be a real run of tinfoil hats lately :)
I bet this guy needs the hat more than you do.
"Senator Ashcroft is so far out of the mainstream that he has said citizens need to be armed in order to protect themselves against a tyrannical government"
There seems to be two schools of thought at work, one endorsing protection from the government, and the other endorsing protection by the government. I wish I knew which one was mainstream.
there's something in human nature that rebels at the thought of someone else getting ahead of you in line.
Around here (especially in winter/rainy conditions), it's more the concept that the idiot passing me at 20kph over the limit on the gravelly side is probably going to launch a nice big rock at my windshield.
Not so bad in the city where the speed limits are lower, but you still get rocks and lots of mud etc when the weather is bad.
Why something passive? Cops could directly signal the speeder's vehicle to slow to the posted limit, or in extreme cases, signal a felony suspect's vehicle to stop outright.
Not advocating it, mind you...
Any government could track were certain citizens are (or rather their cars) at any time.
Got your cellphone on you? Or, as others have pointed out, are you paying for Onstar?
What we've got to remember is that we (in the US) opt in to cellphone service, Onstar, and the like. Until the (US) government considers mandating these things, then we really have no reason to fear the technology.
The day the (US) government does start mandating such things, then we'll have something to fear (and work to change.)
you're only partially correct. the cost to repair the car is only part of their equation. the other parts are: where you live (how many other idiots live and drive near you), and your driving history. I believe that your driving history plays a big part, based on what I have to pay for teenagers that have a couple of tickets and 2 small fender benders.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
Embed the sensors in the roads..
I use this every day to choose which way to go home (red on Decarie (the 15) is particularly bad).
S
Here's the question, though...
Would you drive a car with the intent of being monitored if it meant that your insurance company would give significant fee breaks or if the government gave rebates of some form?
If you start to put money into the equation, things start to seem more interesting than threatening, n'est-ce pas?
Captain : "Well, Fred, the Ford readout says you went and parked by highway forty-eight for six hourse. No headlights, no nothing."
Officer Fred : "That damn car is lying! I was on patrol the whole time! I ran out of gas! I had a flat tire! I didn't have enough money for cab fare! My uniform didn't come back from the cleaners! An old friend came in from out of town! Someone stole my gun! There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!"
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
It will track whether you bought a chicken taco or beef taco at Taco Bell. Currently this technology cannot track chicken and beef but Ford hopes with more R&D it will be possible in the future.
At one point, the Berlin Wall was only ONE BRICK! Not very bad when it's only one brick. But that become 2, then 3, then a taker of liberty, than the USA PAtriot Act, then children arrested for copying some music, then... oh boy... that was one bad brick!
Happy fish-bowl world to us all!
After they installed cockpit monitoring devices in all vehicles, the insurance companies analyzed the data and found an amazing coincidence. The last words said in 80% of all pickup truck accidents were the same: "Hey, hold my beer and watch this!"
Before anyone flames me: I drive an F-150.
"Shredded cabbage and mayo go good together." Cole's Law
Ummm...cop cars are not really the best way to determine traffic conditions, since in the course of a day they are constantly avoiding traffic laws, such as speed, and being able to drive around and thru traffic. Hard breaking in chases, and high speeds travling to the scene of a crime/accident would seriously skew the data.
If you must!
I watched when my Kenworth T600 was in the shop, thay hooked up a system the size of a laptop and had a complete report from speed to RPM's to brake use and pressure. It even showed air pressure to the suspension giving them an idea of how much weight was on each axle. Combined with the qualcomm on board they knew within 3 feet where and what I was doing every 15 min. with the company truck.
I'm told you are what you eat, does that mean I can be you by tomorrow with some A1?
Heh; I use my anti-lock brakes all the time, ususally when no one is around - not because of bad road conditions or traffic, I just drive like an idiot when nobody is around to hurt (hit).
I haven't posted in so long, my sig is out of date.
as long as my car only monitors everyone elses car anonymously and visa versa.
At least your digital boards are giving you "helpful" information.
The one on the road I drive on says:
REPORT SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY
1-800-555-TIPS
Lately democracy seems to be based on the skybox, the Happy Meal box, the X-box, and the idiot box.
I would be the first person to rip that shit out of my car. My constant speeding is my business.
...reporting to your health insurance company that you're having unprotected receptive anal sex with many different strange men?
sorry...couldn't help myself
-k
Your mind moves quicker than a nun's first curry. - A. Rimmer
Let me bring you up to date since you left.
Last year, someone headed back into the city during rush hour crashed into one of those billboards on GA 400 southbound, bringing it down and blocking the entire road well into the evening.
I wasn't there, but I hear people who saw it happen could see the display blinking:
Traffic sign down on GA 400 S & Windward. Use alternate route.
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
Ok, monitoring the car can be good or bad. Here's a little story from the real world.
Someone had a very expensive car, the kind of car that cost a fortune to get a insurance for. So the car got a tracking device installed to get a lower insurance. These devices are normally intalled in different places hard to find unless you take the entire car apart and also has their own battery.
One day the police got a call from the company tracking these cars for the insurance company. The car appeared to had been stolen and was going down the freeway. The police got running updates of the location of the car. drove after it down the freeway and ended up "capturing" the thief in a parking lot by blocking the exits with police cars.
The "thief" turned out to be a family member not normally driving the car who had forgotten to disarm the alarm.
The alarm did not make any noise if not disarmed, it just sat there, sending the coordinates from a gps antenna through the cell phone network.
So the owner was happy to see that the alarm indeed worked but less happy about all the attention the Saturday shopping got.
The story said nothing about the price for this mistake.
Sadly, 1984 hung around.
Send your friends messages of love at fuck-you.org
to spoof that system to make it look like I: Change position instantaneously accross the city; Run backwards on a highway; Run red lights; Drive on the sidewalks; Speed at 1000s of km per hour and break the sound barrier in a school zone...
The only person this system benefits is the insurance company that doesn't want to pay you because your sensors told you that the roads were unsafe and that you were driving 4 miles over the speed limit and this is why they can not pay you. I am sure there is a "black box" that will rat you out to the insurance company. Worse yet, an accident isn't even your fault but they have it on record that you often exceed the national limit and the driver of the vehicle has a good enough lawyer to get him and his insurance company not to pass you even a dime.
Can it happen? I am sure it already does.
I had a flame... but she had a fire.
I live in the midwest and they just started putting them up out here.
I've seen them do 3 things:
- Spew current government safety propoganda. "Buckle Up!" "School has started, watch out for students!" (on the highway?!) "Double fines for speeding in road construction zones!"
- As stated above, give worthless traffic information. "Accident 2 miles ahead." This when you're already stuck in bumper to bumper traffic. Or "Accident at xyz intersection", which is the only way to transfer from highway a to highway b and is ALWAYS the one where somebody crashes at 5pm on a Friday.
- Give worthless weather advisories. Lesse, there's an inch of snow on the ground, snow trucks are everywhere and there's a combination of sleet and rain bouncing off your windshield. What's the sign say? "Weather Advisory: Roads may be slick." DUH!
It seems to me that there's a good idea in there SOMEWHERE... but this aint it.
(Oh, and all the signs have cameras in them pointed at both diretions of traffic.)
I'm not saying that it isn't good to be cautious, but just because a technology can be used in a "Big Brother" way doesn't mean it will.
Yes it does, It's only a matter of time before the fed/state/local authorities start to supoena onstar.
As a matter of fact, they already DID subpoena OnStar or one of its clones. And not just to track the vehicle, but to use the phone function to BUG it. This came to light in the news media as a result of a suit by the service provider.
It seems the device is basically a cellphone (without a ringer and with a fixed number to call, and WITH a data connection to the car's computer). Inbound calls are silently accepted (the better to track stolen cars without alerting the thief and to unlock the door for customers who lock the keys in). Of course this makes bugging the occupants trivial.
The emergency signal is sent by transmitting a tone in the upbound voice channel. With a call permanently set up between the car and the FBI's tape recorder, the emergency service the company was being paid for couldn't be provided. (The tone would go to the tape recorder, rather than a call being made to the emergency service proder.)
When the FBI wanted to continue the tap after a month, the company sued to get them to release it.
(The news item carefully didn't mention which OnStar-or-clone company was involved.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
They call it a "traffic monitor". But traffic is a higher-level function: traffic is an aggregate of vehicle data.
... invasive implications ....
Really, these things should be called "vehicle monitors". But that phrase conjures up such
-kgj
-kgj
Does it have a detector to check whether the tires of your Ford Explorer have exploded yet ?
Here's one thing to think about. If we have and fully debug a system that reports what the car is doing to the surronding cars, we have a key component in the plans for cars that are capable of driving themselves on highway routes.
Having the speed being broadcast be detected seperately from the system that's supposed to be controling the speed is key... because it's when those numbers don't match that the other cars know they need to eject that car from the formation stat.
F.O.R.D - Fix Or Repair Daily
Of course, they conviently ignore the fact that something like this will help people determine the cause of an accident and who was at fault, but the same people who complain about accountability are the same ones who drive 80mph on the shoulder during rush hour, or bob and weave thru traffic, cutting people off just so they can get to work 4 minutes faster.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Just imagine what can be done with all this trackable info? I mean, haven't we learned anything about government abuse of GPS in the way they're hounding that poor Scott Peterson guy in California by tracking his vehicle to the edge of the San Francisco Bay and...
Oh, wait. Let me rethink this....
Perhaps in a few years there can be a democratic road system that more or less lives off of information provided by cars (anonymously of course). It continuously checks the flow, adjusts lights to match, even offering on-road re-routes ahead of time to avoid large delays. Radio and digital displays are nice, but they aren't quick enough to really help 90% of the rush hour drivers.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
When I have kids, I'll expect updates on all their cars' data at regular intervals.
So will the stalkers, rapists, sexual predators, and serial killers.
Is this what you REALLY want for, say, your teenage girl?
How about for your teenage boy - the one with the really cute butt?
How about for your cousin, who just bailed out of the abusive marriage and is trying to duck the ex-husband? You know - the one who broke her nose, blackened her eyes about once a week, and wants to continue the practice?
How about the crook who knows your car is worth fifty grand and you just spent ten minutes in a bank parking lot?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Car drivers file a drive plan which works in conjunction with accurate real time traffic monitoring an on board computer that could generate an alternate route and guide the driver by way of on board navigation system: cool. but what happens when all those drives select the same route beucase each onboard system generated it from the same information? The lower volume roads will be jammed too.
However, if they try to put this in my car...it will be disconnected quickly.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
HA!
This QT video isn't on their site but should be.
This guy is lucky to be alive. Rollover without seatbelt! Turn the sound up to hear his reaction at the end.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
...that these devices will be uniquely identifiable? All they need for this to work is aggregate data, so they just have to call home and say "hey, my host car just engaged the ABS going 45mph, the road temp is 31 F, etc. I'm at x,y,z." No need to send a serial number.
If it didn't identify itself, reporting such things as speed would be a huge help, since the police could use the data to target enforcement where it's needed. (of course, in Dallas, that's pretty much everywhere, since if you're not going at least 10 over, even the police are passing you)
You read traffic monitoring and wonder how you can use that on your network.
Hecubas
Just inform your boss who will do the firing. Hey, you signed the contract...what'sa matter little boy, can't hold up your end of the bargain?
Blar.
I think I'll start driving an antique car with a non-computerized breaker point ignition. No on-star, no cell phone.
Please dont label me as a flame-bait paranoid, but I'm a little tired of the whole world being so damn interested in where I am and what I am doing.
All this RFID crap, cell phone tracking, now your car is supposed to tell everyone what it's up to? Geez, aint it time for a little reality check.
Just because technically you _can_ do something, doesnt necessarily make it a good idea.
Always wear you seat belt. Professional driver on closed course. YMMV. Void where prohibited. Not valid in Utah
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
Seriously...
Blar.
All of the /. tinfoil hat wearers will refuse to get in a vehicle that is capable of tracking them and take public transit.
As a anecdotal side note, you are responsible for anything that your vehicle does even if you are not driving it:
I was side-swiped by a car that ran a red light and the passenger of that car got injured. The passenger named both drivers and my father (who was at home) as defendants in the law suit.
"Youse guys is in here %^&*-ing off, when you is supposed to be filling @#$%&^&*^ potholes! What the ^&%$ do you think you're doing? The city ain't paying you to drink on the ^%&$^$&^%ing job! Get back to work, or you're all fired!"
Chip H.
Most new cars have sensors to detect if your sitting in the front seats, notice the seat belt light if someone is sitting in the passenger seat without their seat belts buckled. Most new cars have inertial sensors for advanced traction control, which are used to detect yaw,pitch and direction of vehicle etc. It could be easily used to tell if the car is rocking and no one is in the front seat. Hell you could use the climate control thermastat to detect if the car is heating up.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
"Yes, Mr. Thomas, the data pulled from your 2005 Ford Mustang GT indicates that you were going 134 mph when you wrecked last night at 3:27am. Local weather reports show that it was raining, yet your wipers, as well as headlights were out. Our assumption is you were drunk. Claim denied."
The same thing that's wrong with my health insurance company examining my biometrics data to identify genes which express both as physiognamy and increased risks of certain diseases, and then charging me more for something I have no control over.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/PugetSoundTraffic/cameras/
"Would you drive a car with the intent of being monitored if it meant that your insurance company would give significant fee breaks or if the government gave rebates of some form?"
No on the government rebate.
Governement money is money I pay in taxes; why should I have to pay $200 to the government so that it can pay me $100 back, if it feels like it?
Check out APRS. You will need an amateur radio license, a GPS, a 2m radio and a small interface circuit. If there is a digipeater in your area with an internet link, you will show up on findu.com, and you won't even need a Python script.
This is really cool; do other cities use this as well?
Yes.
Here's one I use:
Seattle traffic
Ford Prefect you mean? And you say he's testing something? I don't believe a word of it.
Next up: purchasing a license to sit.
FORD=First On Race Day
You forgot that one.
Comeup with a positive for Chevy or Dodge then?
Source code is like sex. It's better when it's free.
The Article is deceiving in saying that we cannot do this now... The devices in the road do a perfectly fine job of gather info like wheather, traffic conditions and even vehicle classes/weights. If everyone actually knew that they are already being tracked and tickets could be given out with cameras and traffic sensors in the roadway now if it wasn't for the privacy issue, they would be even more upset. Ignorance is bliss until that photo and ticket get mailed.
-Cg
Clever or not, I got nothing...
Maybe they can make the cars report to each other in such a way that you don't have so many headlight-less dumbasses.
Indeed. Bowties are for children.
My favourite MOPAR one:
Mistubishi's OverPriced American Replicas.
It's so true.
MOPAR stands for "Motor Parts". How stupid is that. Genuine MOPAR Parts, Motor Parts Parts?
all together now: OnStar
What is a truck driver doing on /.?
I know that trucking has gotten more "high-tech" - truckers are carrying laptops, checking the internet, sending email to loved ones at home via 802.11b at the "local" Travel America center. But what brought you to slashdot?
Or, am I reading too much into this?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Headlights being turned on indicating bad weather conditions could backfire in Sweden, where it is mandatory to have the lights turned on by default .
Some suggestions for localization:
I didn't know that winshields had anything to do with slick conditions ;-)
"Windshield use along with near-freezing pavement temperatures and ABS activations would point to slick conditions"
spend more time and energy building better cars that automate the process of driving in different conditions than to criticize the driver who, by nature, is capable of error. Smarter cars as opposed to more safety watchdogs hounding every driver's move. They're already plenty of those, i.e. other drivers with cell phones. Hell, maybe they'll get a clue and get on the hybrid bandwagon and build, of all things, an efficient set of vehicles. In So. Cali, with fuel prices soaring above $2/gal, they could penetrate the market where Toyota has succeeded with the Prius. Put their vast portfolio and money where their mouth is.
-Yim
Chevrolet = Can Hear Every Valve Rattle On Long, Extended Trips
It's like collision detection with ethernet: If too many devices try to send packets out on the physical medium at the same time, they each wait for a random back-off time before retrying.
The wait is almost over....!
For those concerned about Big Brother tracking you in your car during your commute... do not worry there is no such thing as traffic, tracking, congestion, backups, or accidents.
The words have been removed from the state-owned dictionary and thus all commuting is back to normal.
The wait will be over shortly; thanks for...!
you can easily get yourself a ticket for being in the left lane at all unless you're passing.
Speeding is bad is as stupid as saying speeding is good. If going slow is the panacea then we should all ditch our cars and get bicycles. It'd be cheaper wouldn't it?
I go fast because life is short. I drive safe because life is precious. Where to strike the balance is hard. The problem is that government and citizens disagree on what the balance is or on how to measure a reasonable balance.
If you choose to go slow, that's great. You just better not be doing it in the left lane. I have a job to do, a kid to transport, a family to take care of, etc. I need to get everywhere fast or stuff doesn't get done.
-theed
Another one you could try is the following: Sure, I was about to say, KILLS for the speed, but this ought to do.
SVT COBRA VIN#12345
WINDSHIELD WIPERS:FLIPPING YOU OFF
HEADLIGHTS: PLAID
SPEED: LIGHT
"Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
Imagine an opt-in system for letting drivers contribute to a GPS-drawn map. New car purchasers have an option of getting a GPS system installed, which would be used only for this map-drawing system (no need to break out the tinfoil hats...). A centralized system keeps track of each car's position (anonymously; it only needs to know where cars are, and not who is in the cars) and continuously updates a map of everywhere a car has been.
After a somewhat short period of time, you'd get a digital, very accurate map of anywhere you can drive a car. If this constantly-growing map could be combined with something like the technology behind the best roadmap system around (Mapquest? Microsoft's "Streets and Maps"? I don't know), we'd end up with a pretty powerful way of getting around. As it'd be continuously updated, I think the best way to access it would be online you could print out a map of wherever you're going, or watch your car forge new trails on a PDA/cellphone.
(Well...it's mildly off-topic, but I think it's a neat idea anyway.)
What about the money for all this? I suppose the opt-in GPS in the car could be free, but using the maps themselves would require a small fee? Funded by car companies? A dot-com startup? I dunno.
$ echo "ceci n'est pas une pipe" | sed -Ee 's/(eci n|pas )//g'