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Echostar/Dish Network Pulls Viacom Channels
RedWolves2 writes "As was mentioned yesterday, Viacom was trying to warn Dish Network customers over the weekend that its channels were going to be pulled from their service. Well today those channels were finally pulled. 'EchoStar Communications Corp. on Tuesday pulled from service 16 of Viacom's local CBS stations and 10 of its national channels after the companies failed to agree on contract terms and prices.' Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off. DirecTV sounds like a great choice."
If only because DIRECTV's DVR (aka DIRECTiVo) totally kicks the ass of whatever cheap and lame knock-off Dish uses.
True, DIRECTV's HD DVR is not quite out yet, but I do know that Dish's HD DVR sucks royally, and that the DIRECTV offering is worth the wait.
Disclaimer: I work for TiVo, and my opinions are my own.
I am actually on the Dish networks side on this one; what Viacom is trying to with their crappy channel bundling is a joke. That said however, CBS has CSI and Survivor, for most people $1/month is nowhere near good enough.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
How about reducing all the packages back to where they were last year, and charging the people who actually WANT Viacom's crap a couple bucks a month? I think I can survive without Racist Entertainment TV & No-Music TV.
Yeah, okay, no South Park is gonna hurt, but that's what the net is for.
I have to give Charlie credit for standing up to viacom.
Hell. They oughta charge an extra $5 monthly for filtering MTV and Nickelodeon out of your home. I'd pay it.
Heh, they lost VIACOM programming? Hell, I'd pay $1 less on my DirecTV bill to lose MTV.
In fact, I'd pay $1 *more* to lose MTV.
I have Charter Cable, and viacom is running ads stating the obivous, that EchoStar/Dish Network is not meeting demands, and airing it on all providers.
This whole situation does not affect me, why bother me?
I'm surprized that Dish is even paying $1 with the way that buissness are run today
Dish Network and Viacom are two of the most bloated, poorly run companies out there. I hope this deals both of them the death blow they surely deserve.
Surely this move is also important to SCO - after all, the Canopy Group is invested in both Viacom and Dish Network. Maybe there'll be some Linux audit coming up?
I have cable.
the only way you can get ANY cable tv where i live is in crappy bundles, single channel subscriptions are completely out of the question and will remain that way.....
This is the motion of the new revolution..... The trance is the motion.......
I heard about this on the 5pm newscast here in Maryland. Echostar/DishNetwork pulled out a Baltimore station from their lineup.
Of course, it was an NBC station who reported of the CBS station being yanked. The CBS station however was owned by CBS.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
DirecTV sounds like a great choice
Sure, if you want to support Viacom's unfair business practices. If they didn't force bundles on the networks, none of this would be going down. Viacom's 'bundling' is certainly no more ethical than Microsoft's 'bundling' that we all hear so much about...
Maybe partying will help...
...that this would be the beginning of a ala carte(sp) cable service. It didn't happen when Disney and Comcast (AT&T) had their fight, but maybe Echostar can pull it off against Viacom.
Of course, the realist in me knows that my cable bill will go up a few dollars regardless. (Yes, I have cable, but I'm sure Comcast will find a way to increase my bill too.)
no questions asked...
They no longer get the Sci-Fi or History channel, or even Comedy Central. Is there mass suicide watch?
Seriously, having the channels pulled is bad enough (I mean, REALLY bad)... but getting re-imbursed 1 friggin dollar for the hassle? That's insane!
Don't get me wrong, my hole is permanently soar from the monthly raping I get from the local cable company (they're a monopoly in this area, sans satellite and broadcast). But if this kind of assinine bull happened, I'd pull the plug and turn to books and the eventual DVD release of my favorite shows.
Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off.
Why not? When you're paying $6.50 a month, lose some channels, and then pay $5.50 a month what more would you expect? Free home delivered meals for a week out of every month? Sacrifice of the director's first born?
Put things into perspective!
RST
we were going to have dish installed tomorrow, but we put it on hold due to this. what do you guys recommend anyway? just curious.. those channels do affect my family, not necessarily me but my family so it does matter that i get those channels.. directv better or what?
Kyle
http://www.unlogikal.net/
One of the channels being pulled is Comedy Central, I just canceled my Dish Membership today because of that.
You think the Cable Company would be falling over themselves to get me back, but they're making me wait 5 days to get Cable!!!
... and in the DRM, bind them.
people talk about crap channels on TV, but that's the point. the reason you can't just pick the channels you want, and skip the crap is because companies like viacom make you take the good with the bad.
of all the viacom channels they offer, the one i want is comedy central. that's it. but i still have to get mtv, nickelodian (sp?), and all their other crap. I DON'T WANT IT.
but i have to get it whether i want it or not, because that's the only way viacomm will sell it.
remind anyone of a certain software companies business practices? you want Windows? you're getting IE and WMP bundled together.
good for dish network sticking standing up to them. hell, i'll probably sign up tomorrow in support of the stance they're taking.
DirecTV sounds like a great choice /. readers as a whole blasting EV1servers for caving in to Evil Company X's immoral and potentially illegal ultimatums? Yet the articles posted on THIS subject all carry an editorial spin of abandonment when a DN stands up against Evil Company Y's extortionist tactics? WTF?
Aren't
I am a DirecTV subscriber, but I've really got to admire Dish' handling of this. Granted, $1/mo. doesn't seem sufficient.
One gripe I have with DirecTV isn't really DirecTV's fault, as evidenced by this thing with EchoStar: why do I have to sit down every couple of months to erase all of the CRAP from "Channels I Receive" list (freestanding TiVo), and pay $50/mo. for the 10 channels I regularly watch?
Packaging isn't just DirecTV/Dish' fault, but the fault of the conglomerates' anti-competitive muscle flexing. You know, if I had to pay $2.00 per month for that channels I do watch (plus $10 for HBO), I'd still be at $50/mo., but I'd be much, much happier about it because I'd know (or at least feel) that I was in control of it.
--Jim (me)
So I'm of a mind to send a message to Viacom: keep your content, I won't miss it. THPHHHHHHHHT! (with apologies to Bill the Cat). I'm much more interested in channels like SciFi, BBC America, IFC, and those wacky independent channels like Worldlink TV.
-- This
Could this be anymore blatant? Echostar is in a dispute with Viacom since Viacom wants to raise its rates 40%. Both sides seem to be spreading disinformation, should /. be helping one do so and not the other.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Whatever the state of television in the U.S., consider yourselves lucky that you have the television technology that you do. Put up with it!
I'm not a Dish subscriber, I live in the woods and no satellite service has a snowball's chance in hell of reaching me here, unless I throw up a 100 foot or taller pole to sit the antenna on.
Why do I say this? Because I'm sick and tired of the scrolling on my screen whining about this, it doesn't affect me, I don't care. If MY cable company yanks these channels you can bet I WILL scream bloody murder, having a 3 year old, many of these channels are viewed quite a lot around here.
If I WERE a Dish subscriber I'd be plenty pissed right now though, and probably no longer a subscriber.
However this on-air squabbilng was somewhat entertaining, overall I really couldn't care less and would prefer not to see the scrolling on my screen.
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Darl C McBride
1799 Vintage Oak Ln
Salt Lake City, UT 84121-6539
Darl's home phone #: (801)424-2006
Darl's office phone #: 801-932-5820
Email Darl: darl@sco.com
Stop watching TV. It rots your brain.
oh, wait.
sulli
RTFJ.
So let's see, people in certain markets are out their local CBS affiliate (unless they break out the rabbit ears, of course) and 10 other channels.
Lose 11 channels, get reimbursed $1 per month? How much money would an 11-channel "bundle" tack on to one's bill if one were to add it? Seems like Dish subscribers are getting the shaft from both ends on this one.
Of course, I'm a Comcast cable subscriber paying $77/mo for just basic + 3 HBOs, so my asshole is pretty sore, too.
Although my kids will miss 'Nick', they have cartoon network and Disney.
Regardless, what Viacom is trying to do is force their crap down our throats by trying to intimidate DISH network. I do not agree with it and support DISH in this endaevor.
So go on to DirectTV (for those saying they are going to switch), they succomed to the Viacom intimidation...hmm while your at it you may want to buy some EV1 rack-space as well.
and I did listen to Dish Network CEO talking to customers on the off-air channels.
He makes a couple of good points. According to him, their situation is like 'a consumer who goes to the gas station that is selling gas at $1.50 a gallon but ask you to pay $2.00 a gallon and after you buy gas, they ask you to buy carwash and wiper fluids'. Also, if CBS is really intetersted in getting consumer confidence, then they would've allowed Dish Network to air the channel to its 1.6 million subscribers.
[Rant mode]
Am I annoyed as a consumer? Hell yes. If I pay for the service, it's operation should be fairly transparent. I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK about companies bitching with each other. If you are running such a big corp, then its your responsibility to forsee and handle problems. I am not taking anybody's side when I say this but this is getting out of control. Companies there are more interested in making the buck without caring about consumer sentiment/service.
[/Rant mode]
Free XBox, PS2
DT is an option only if pro sports is your idea of a good time.
It's kinda sad for Dish Network, I'm not sure what this deal would have cost them, but I do know that they will probably lose a ton of customers because of it.
Skippy
I don't know about you, but I'd rather get Voom service. Over 30 channels in full HDTV, plus all of the standard SD channels, plus they install a Channelmaster local antenna so you can get the HD locals as well. What's the cost? $0 up front for installation and only $9.50 a month to lease the box (which is a very nice Motorola set top box with DVI-HDCP output to drive your HDTV or Plasma screen).
DirecTV has been recompressing their HDTV channels recently to cram more bandwidth onto their already overcrowded satellites and in the process making HD-HBO look like crap. Dish has major problems of their own. I think Voom is looking more and more like the best option. They offer not only HD-HBO and HD-SHOtime, but also HD-Cinemax and HD-Starz, which none of the other satellite or cable companies currently offer, and only $80 a month for all the channels, or $40 a month for a basic package. As far as I'm concerned, both DirecTV (with their money-grubbing RIAA style extortion tactics) and Dish Network (with their terrible customer service and contract problems) can stick it where the sun don't shine.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Whats with the two DTV plugs? How much did they pay for that? Did everyone forget that *cough* has a nasty habit of threatening to suing its own customers to extort money?
MTV pulled and money back in my pocket is exactly what I wanted. Fuse is 100 times better than MTV/MTV2 anyway.
Most likely Viacom's contract stipulates that their channels must appear on the basic lineup, and may NOT be on a premium tier, IE, Dish Network can't charge extra for it.
Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off. DirecTV sounds like a great choice.
/. for switching to a satellite company that has blanket prosecuted people that buy smart card readers (Because everyone that buys one must be doing something illegal!)
First of all, I'm majorly impressed that dish is not bowing to Viacom's demands, as most cable companies AND direct tv have always in the past. I also don't know how anyone could make a case on
Secondly, to everyone but the highest teer (who already recieve every channel), they've added multiple channels until this battle is over. The added networks include FUSE (formerly Much Music) and several additional Disney Networks (to replace Nick.)
I think Dish has handled this issue the best they could, and I think they're closing stock price (Up) reflects what people think of them vs Viacom (who incidentally closed down on the stocks.)
I dont watch no cbs. In mah hood they all watch cricket.. mind ya this aint no cracker game.. this is a nizzle game too... havent seen them carrebien brothas play?
yea. hail directv! thats the only good tv in this country because it provides releif from watching baseball and stupid football. Cricket... God send!
cbs sucks anyways.
BET was also pulled. good, now I won't have to hear racist black comedians making jokes about whites.
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
Ok, so when you can get channels for $.50 a month this would be a fair deal! Not only is Dish violating their trust with the customer, they're failing to deliver, and the return should be greater than the cost.
We gotta stick together here; dump your cable, dish etc paid tv and get in on the action at suprnova. You'll be glad you did.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
But Viacom won't allow this. Because who would actually pay extra for the garbage channels? If any satellite or cable operator were to threaten to seperate the channels into their own package or to charge individually for them, Viacom would then pull the plug on all of their channels. No company could survive with no Viacom channels, so they give in and pay a huge amount of money for all of them. Disney tried the same thing with Cox Cable. Funny, these types of sales tactics used to be called racketeering and were actually illegal. Imagine if GM had 95% of the American auto market and built their cars to only run on GM brand gasoline?
Viacom is quite simply extorting Echostar. They see Echostar raising the bill for it's customers (for what reason, I don't know but I'm willing to bet it's partly due to rising costs on their end and not purely for profit) and Viacom immediately assumes they can demand a cut. That alone is bad, but coupled with their crawls and promos all over their channels really pisses me off and I'm not even a customer of Echostar.
Viacom is throwing a _very_ public temper-tantrum and it really turns me off to watching content on their channels. Music TV is horribly bad so I don't watch it anyway but I'm starting to have second thoughts about watching Survivor, CSI, and South Park. It's really making me reevaluate what to do with my spare time besides wasting it away in front of the TV.
It sucks for Echostar's customers who want to (for one reason or another) watch Viacom stations but Viacom is pulling me into the suckfest by interupting the programming for their propaganda. And it's really going to suck when Echostar buckles and shows that media conglomerates really do own everybody and everything and can do as they please.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
DirecTV sounds like a great choice
Something isn't right here.
Microsoft bundles a bunch of crap, makes you take everything, and charges out the ass, and everyone gets all up in arms about it.
Viacom does the same damned thing, and you start bitching about changing to DirecTV...a company that already caved in to Viacom's unreasonable demands.
And I hate to break it to everyone, but while $1 doesn't sound like a whole lot, that probably is about right for what carrying Viacom adds to the package price for each customer.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I know some of the folks at Dish. I'm also a subscriber. Might be biased a bit but having seen both I can say that Dish is great. Good quality, good prices, and by pulling viacomm they made an even better impression. I don't want to support people like viacomm who increase their rates 4 times over inflation. To me, Dish stood up for my interests.
I also watch international programming on Dish that's not available on DirectTV.
Everyone is entitled to free speech and in this case, free to choose what Satellite TV provider you want. Us Satellite folks should stick together though. You could be on Cable which tries to brainwash you.
"DirecTV sounds like a great choice."
Not in my eyes; they're minions of Microsoft- if you want 'mobile' internet (internet from the road, or outside the DSL limit or whatever) you *have* to have a Microsoft machine with DirecTV.
I don't....and won't...downgrade for anyone. And I won't support monetarily what feeds 'the machine'; 23 years is enough.
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
Damn. I'd be piiiiissed if I had to loose ComedyCentral. Ya, the reruns of Strips and Blankman get old, but the DailyShow and next-day-Conan make that channel awesome.
:)
Then again, you can still see the best of the Dailyshow the next day online
http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_shows/ds/
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
I'm a dish subscriber, but not apparently a Viacom viewer as I hadn't noticed the banners. We (my wife and I) are very supportive of Dish in this, and so should be other Slashdotters, because it's very much along our standard philosophy.
Viacom was trying to dictate that unrelated products must be bundled together... sounds like a large Redmond-based company's approach to PC makers until a few years ago, no?
Viacom is trying to charge significantly over normal rates for their product, and holding hostage otherwise-free product (i.e. over-the-air product.) Sounds like a shrinking Utah company's policies, no?
Sounds unimportant? Then riddle me this... why should users have to pay for BET, NickToons and Spike? Which demographic watches all three of those?
Okay, maybe some. Same people who want Outlook with their Excel with their OS. So do you support using a near-monopoly to blackmail your customers into buying additional product they don't want, or are you a true Slashdotter?
I think this whole issue needs to be put in perspective. The lost networks are as follows: BET VH1 MTV Comedy Central Nickelodeon (et all.)
Now, VH1 and BET are not high rated networks in the least bit, and outside of the 18-24 demographic, who watches Comedy Central. What I'd really like to know is who, if anyone, watches MTV? Anyone?
Now, Nickelodeon does well, and their childrens programming losses are the major loss in this deal, but Dish has done themselves right by adding additional Disney networks to those in the lower of their 3 tiers to make up for the currently absent channels.
Now, the CBS networks are the huge loss... and personally, my understanding of must carry laws basically says that Viacom is about to find itself in a shitload of trouble for what it's doing.
I'm glad someone is standing up to what amounts to extortion. Viacom wants Echostar/Dish to carry additional programming, and if they don't do it, they pull the rights to broadcast CBS, all the while raising the rates for Viacom networks....
I noticed that DirecTV rolled over and raised their rates all the while taking out a full page ad in USA Today trumpeting that they now carry NickToons. You can also sorta compare the packages they both offer:
Dish Network Total 120: $34.99 or $385 ($32.08/m) a year
Direct TV Total Choice (130 channels): $39.99 a month
(I picked the lowest packages that carried TechTV. And you would need to add onto Dish Network if you want the locals.)
I've been a Dish Network subscriber for 4 years now, and the only thing that really irks me is that all their offers for new boxes or PVRs are for new customers only.
What, me worry?
What people expect is to get the service they signed up for.
I personally will be sending an email expressing my feelings that even though I am dissappointed to lose Comedy Central for an undetermined amount of time, I stand by Dish Network in their stance against Viacom.
-IOVAR Web Dev Platform
And I'll say it again. As a former Dish network customer.....this is nothing compared to what they can/have done in the past. That's why I'm a FORMER customer.
From inflated bills and never getting return credit, to being sent to collections for services never rendured. Not to mention pulling money from someone's account that didn't belong to the dish subsciber after probing it.
We also can't forget about the horrible service....Signal CONSTANTLY dropping, PPV events never pulling through but being charged for them...I could go on, but I won't.
I've never had a problem over the past 1.5 years I've been with DTV. No lost signal (except during a monsoon and cable was out for 3 days afterwards), no incorrect billing, PPV events always work and are crystal clear.
There will be a flood of Dish systems for sale, cheap!
Get them while the getting is good.
Gee, /. showing a bias? I'm shocked.
Both sides are throwing out complaint websites. I'd really like to see Dish succeed at this - the local cable company just told us it was raising rates $3/mo. Good to see Dish is standing up for the extortion Viacom is doing.
Dish has two links to complain: Complain to CBS here with a web form
E-mail them directly here
Wonder if we could slashdot CBS's web form? (grin)
After I post this I am going to the Dish site and
thank them. They have rendered a service here.
Viacom should be paying Dish to carry that stuff.
I'm writing to express my support for Dish Network and their stance against Viacom's tactics. Though I am personally dissappointed to lose Comedy Central (the only channel pulled that I watch) I will certainly survive without it until this matter is resolved. I appreciate everything Dish Network does to keep customer rates low and offer quality programming.
Thank you!
-shawn
-IOVAR Web Dev Platform
They require me to pay dish networks for the obscure channels that I never watch? It's all great and wonderful when you're getting customers to pay for things they don't watch, but when the broadcaster puts it to you the same way, scream bloody murder. Another interesting note is that the huge hike in fees is something in the range of 5% (from what i've read, sorry no sources handy). While a little bit hefty, if this isn't a yearly 5% increase and their contract renews something like every 2-3 years or even 5 years, then is this really that outrageous? Ask an old-timer what Soda, bread, and milk used to cost "back in their day;" prices go up, it's called inflation. That being said, squibbling by putting nasty notes on my screen urging me to get furious and call dish networks, or putting notes on "BET.com" telling me how "Dish Networks is trying to take my BET away" and generally trying to make this into a race issue is simply put, CHILDISH. And covering their message with a black box could easily be prepared to blacking out a commercial for a Presidential Candidate because you think he's a bad choice for your viewers. Grow up, the lot of you.
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
I mentioned this yesterday but it was too late to get much notice...
There is an important parallel with what is happening here and what happened to the Hollywood studio system in the 30s and 40s. Hollywood studios owned most of the theaters at that time outright but there were some independents that were trying to stay in the game. The studios would work with these indeprendents, but in order to get a good A movie they would force the theaters to take 4 or 5 crappy B movies as well. This was found to be an illegal practice in the vertical integration lawsuits that concluded after WWII.
This is almost the exact same situation... but now it's actually legal. It was made legal by Ronald Reagan who explicitly made vertical integration legal again (as part of his deregulation program) early in his presidentcy.
It's an anti-cometitive practice and it hasn't always been allowed. There is a good reason bundling was made illegal in the trustbuster days and it should be illegal again... and the practices of both the cable companies and providers like viacom are a great example. Not all regulation are "undue hinderances."
Why don't you embrace your slashbotness instead of living in a dreamworld?
Viacom is a HUGE player in "Television".
DishNetwork's (I didn't know they were still around, BTW) decision to turn their back on this huge player (Their "Media Brands" - CBS, MTV, Nickelodeon, VH1, BET, Paramount Pictures, Viacom Outdoor, Infinity, UPN, Spike TV, TV Land, CMT, Comedy Central, Showtime, Blockbuster, and Simon & Schuster, not to mention any other subsidiaries/divisions of those "Brands") is REALLY FUCKING SIGNIFICANT.
So many channels, so few umbrella. (No plural on purpose)
It's sort of like when you clicked on that checkbox next to Jon Katz' articles.. Except, you don't get the option. In my opinion, and it seems many others, this option is missing from TV that you have to pay for.
Kind of like having to eat from a TV dinner (no pun intended), with 300 little compartments, most of which have some sort of boiled vegetable. A sea of green beans, peas, corn, mashed potatoes, broccoli, brussels sprouts, hot-ass-too-hot-to-eat-apple cobbler, squash, succotash, sprinkled with something that makes you say "Yay!" (South Park, Iron Chef) are like something actually friggin' palatable - meatloaf (not my choice, but hey), fried chicken, tamales, poultry nugget, but each have a significant drawback. Commercials/crap programming as compared to bones/no meat/mushy/tasteless, but otherwise appealing to look at in comparison to the sea of overcooked vegetables.
How'd you like to build your own 15-compartment TV dinner, closer to a reasonable price, as opposed to the more-than-you-want and not-really-all-that-great-to-begin-with and OVERPRICED at that TV dinner?
I would, and I *DESPISE* TV.
since when did people like you start posting to slashdot again?
Because Viacom was pushing that DishNetworks would have to purchase all the bundle, not just a channel or two. Even if you want BET and MTV alone, you'd still get like eighteen thousand Nickelodeon channels.
Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
You have to answer that yourself...Don't worry, it's not too hard. First of all, either system will deliver a better picture for a lower price than cable.
Now for the Dish vs DirecTV question...
Step 1: Decide which Dish package and which DirecTV package you would buy. Note that there are alternate places to get music videos (Fuse) and cartoons than MTV & Nick.
Step 2: Compare the prices on those package.
Step 3: Take the difference in monthly cost and multiply it by 12 to find out what your annual price difference really is.
Decide if package1 is worth X dollars more than package2. People usually base their answer on how big of a role TV plays in their life and how much they watch it.
Consider the plight of my nieces. All three -- in first grade and up -- woke up this morning during their school spring break to find nearly all children's program off-the-air. Granted one can argue that parents shouldn't use the TV as a babysitter but it happens, get over it, and it's going to be hard to be pacified when they're used to watching SpongeBob several hours out of the day and now have to watch HGTV.
I have compassion that this is a squabble between Echo and Via, but I really see this as extortion on both sides with consumers -- and parents -- caught in the middle.
I think that both of these companies are fooling themselves if they think consumers are going to bounce between two companies looking for people to complain to. Forget it. On to TimeWarner or Comcast or DirecTV.
Both companies lose.
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
What is with all of the Directv plugs? Is the submitter part of Directv's subversive marketing group?
mbbac
Does it now?
-BK
Chemical Blog
dish network only bundles because of the promos offered by viacom and other media companies. I have Dish and asked to have the channel packages changed to get just what I want and they did that for me but I have to pay extra so they can cover the cost of the bundle they have to pay viacom for.
I like things that are sweet and not things that are lame. --
DirecTV sounds like a great choice.
Or cable.. I had DirecTV for several years, but I finally switched due to the constans loss of reciption when it rains (Which is often does in summer). For about the same price as DirecTV, I got cable with all the channels I actually watch and a 3Mbit/300Kbit broadband line.
Buckethead
It's not tempting for me at all, since I still get my sci-fi channel (Stargate SG1!!!) fix from Dish, but comcast is apparently just starting a $400 dish buyback program to get back customers. The money would be nice (or however they apply the credit), but I still think I'm better off with Dish.
My daughter might miss Nick, but she's been starting to play more Planetside and other online games. I suspect she'll come through this OK.
This is exactly what Viacom is doing. Charging an extra fee in order to split the channel packages.
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
Before you take try with Direct TV know this.
Much of the Direct TV equipment is sold with a rebate offer. Do not expect to see even one penny of that money. They won't send it. You will be declared inelligible. They will lose your receipt. When you send a backup receipt they will declare that it doesn't have a date of purchase on it. When you point out that you highlighted the purchase date in yellow highlighter they will claim that it fell outside of the rebate period. You will never see the money. If someone tells you otherwise they are the exception, not the rule.
And when your Direct TV receiver breaks. Don't expect to get a replacement. Oh, they'll send you 'a receiver'. It'll be some factory recertified piece of crap that's been laying around a dusty warehouse that doesn't support on screen menus.
I submitted this story earlier today. Funny it didn't get picked up then. I also penned a note to the non-managing directors of Viacom.
To the Directors;
I want to convey my sincere regret over the fact that Viacom has decided that punishing the customers of EchoStar in their dispute with the satellite provider is 'good business'. The only solution Viacom has offered to the EchoStar customer base in response to this debacle is "Current EchoStar/DISH Network subscribers who would like to continue receiving BET, CBS, Comedy Central, MTV, Nickelodeon, Nick at Nite, VH1, and all our other channels can easily switch to one of these reputable operators. We urge them to do so." This offhand dismissal of the reality of our collective situation indicates to me that Viacom is completely out of touch with the audience it serves. Many of EchoStar's customers have significant investment in equipment and annual contracts and cannot afford to quickly switch providers as your press release suggests.
By punishing your *indirect* customers, the audience of your shows, you are also punishing your other customers, your advertisers. By refusing to negotiate in good faith with EchoStar, and by denying temporary access to your content during negotiations, your advertisers are losing PAID access to millions of customers of the products and services advertised on your content stream. If you have no regard for the audience of your shows, perhaps you should take the pulse of your advertisers to see how they feel about the current conflict.
I, for one, have taken the time to notify all of the advertisers who have paid *you* for access to *me* through your content stream. I have indicated that the reason I am not making a purchasing decision regarding their products and services is due to *your* intransigence. They are losing thousands of dollars in disposable income a year due to *your* inability to negotiate with EchoStar.
I blame you, not EchoStar, for this impasse. I have notified your advertisers that I will boycott all of their products and services until this issue is resolved. I will also watch carefully all future Viacom acquistions and voice my opinion regarding each proposal to the appropriate regulatory authority (i.e., FCC, SEC, USDOJ). This situation has certainly cast any future consolidation of the entertainment industry in a poor light.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
http://www.viacom.com/press.tin?ixPressRelease=802 54209
anyone read this?
It makes oh go "ahh now I understand why MTV has such shitty programming" after you read the press release from the "President" of MTV.
heres a sample:
"First of all, EchoStar is hardly some small mom-and-pop operation that is being pushed around. It has more than 9 million subscribers -- 10% of all multichannel homes and 43% of all satellite households. It is the fourth largest distributor in the U.S. and as a result it has enormous negotiating power.
Faced with the clout that comes with having that massive distribution, we've been doing everything humanly possible we can -- for months now -- to finalize a deal with them. As I said before, the last thing we ever want to do is wind up in a situation where our viewers can't get the channels and shows they love. So in our negotiations with EchoStar, we were extremely flexible and offered substantial compromises."
At the risked of getting modded "redundant", MOST people who have examined the issue think Viacom is the bad guy here.
/.er would support such a tactic is beyond me.
Viacom is another of the megamedia-opolies that have sprung up in the past 10 or 15 years, gobbling up everything in sight, attempting a broad integration of their products (Disney/ABC and AOL/TW are similar, although the latter has done a crappy job of integration). The purpose of this is get leverage over the other, smaller players in the various fields in which they compete, and over their various business partners and customers--like Dish Network.
As others have pointed out, Viacom is engaged in blatant attempt to "bundle" less desirable programming (say BET) with highly desired programming (CBS) to squeeze extra dollars out of Dish--and thus its customers. Why any
And DirecTV is no charmer itself, with its "guilty until proven innocent" attacks on hobbyists.
Finally, while Direct has superior sports coverage (namely the exclusives on the NFL and MLB packages), Dish has several movie channels NOT on Direct. As a movie lover, this is a MAJOR factor for me.
In short, Go Dish Go--and screw Viacom.
lol u got served
This is why they need to restore the restrictions on ownership of broadcast stations. This wouldn't be an issue if Viacom wasn't allowed to actually OWN these 16 broadcast stations. It's ridiculous that they should be allowed to require payment for Dish Network to rebroadcast a local channel that is freely available over the public airwaves as long as they're restricting it to the channel's actual target market.
As for Viacom's cable channels? The only one that has any redeeming qualities is Noggin. The fact that Viacom wants to FORCE everyone who wants to watch any of their channels to subscribe to ALL of their channels is just wrong.
Even worse, they're using their powers as a media juggernaut to deceive the public. You know that story they keep telling about how Dish Network just raised its rates by $3 per month for no reason and yet refuse to pay an extra 6 cents per month for Viacom's programming? It's an outright lie.
First, not all Dish Network subscribers had their rates raised AT ALL... and many of those who did see a rate increase saw a much lower increase than $3.
Second, the programming fee increase that Viacom is asking for is substantially more than 6 cents over the course of the contract. 6 cents per month is just the first year. Think "Columbia House"... those first few CDs may only cost you one cent, but then you're stuck buying a few dozen more at $20 a piece.
Third, they are also trying to force Dish Network to carry additional channel(s) that they don't want to carry. This also adds additional costs as they need to add equipment and manpower to support the additional feeds as well as using up additional bandwidth on their satellites.
Finally, Viacom is trying to claim that since they've successfully negotiated contracts with all of the cable providers and DirecTV that this is Dish Network's fault. What they neglect to mention is that the terms of their contracts with the cable companies and DirecTV are SIGNIFICANTLY more favorable than what they're offering Dish Network... especially the cable companies. That's due in part to Federal laws that set forth specific rules for how much local broadcasters can charge cable companies for rebroadcasting their signals. These regulations don't apply to satellite providers and so the local broadcasters take the satellite companies to the cleaners.
Viacom is urging people to call and cancel their Dish Network service. Dish Network is urging customers to call and complain to Viacom (and their advertisers... good idea) but what EVERYONE needs to do... whether you're a Dish Network subscriber or not is call your lawmakers and get them to start paying attention to the damage caused by companies like Viacom who are allowed to control such a significant chunk of the media without any effective controls placed on them.
We are losing some channels that many of us do not like. The main loss is CBS and that is NOT in all areas. It is only in major networks like Chicago, Minneapolis, New York, San Fransisco, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, etc I think you might have the ability to subscribe to another CBS, for example Des Moines is the one I recieve and yes, it is still on.
Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off.
It's great! I don't watch nor care for the Viacom channels. But I get a dollar anyway.
Now if Charlie had given in, I'd had to pay more for channels I don't care about. Keep fighting Charlie!
Actually it isn't. Viacom isn't letting dish split the packages. They're saying "If you want CBS you have to take all of our channels and carry them or nothing. We want them on DishNetwork and we also want you (Dish Network) to pay us for them, and since we have these CBS stations which we know you can't live without we think we can push the other channels down your throat".
Dish charges $6 for local channels. I'd say $1 back for dropping a channel is fair.
local dish network prices
I think inflation was a pretty shitty analogy here.
5% inflation is PRETTY FUCKING SIGNIFICANT.
all stations either noone watches, or that are blatantly racist (BET) or stations that you can get locally without a dish. no loss.
Here in Columbus (OH), about three years ago the local CBS affiliate started pressuring Time Warner to carry Ohio News Network on their basic analog cable service in order to continue rebroadcasting CBS. It was a mess, and all the other news agencies loved it. Everything went nuts about a month before the contract renewal deadline, and both sides dug in.
About two weeks before the station was to be pulled from the lineup, Time Warner sent rabbit ears to every customer and included instructions (both written and on their special channel running every half hour). If a customer wasn't sure how to set things up, a tech would even come out before the deadline so that CBS would still work seemlessly. Time Warner took the game to a level the CBS affiliate wasn't ready for.
The end result: Time Warner agreed to carry ONN on digital cable, and the CBS station stayed on regular analog cable. I'm not sure, but I don't believe there was even a rate increase given to the CBS station.
I wouldn't be surprised if these tactics by Viacom end up with the exact same result. Dish may lose a few customers in this, but that's nothing compared to the marketshare Viacom loses if people don't just randomly stumble onto their channel and watch for a half hour. If your station isn't even offered, people just can't watch it, and advertisers just don't want to pay lots of money for that. The price of poker is high here, but I'm pretty sure Viacom's in the position with the most to lose (and the potential gains are only modest).
Long, cute, or funny Sigs are just another form of over compensation, used by geeks, nerdz, etc.
DIRECTV was already a great choice
Remember Smartcard Reader/Writers?
DirectTV is the company that's been extorting thousands of dollars from everybody who ever bought one - regardless of whether they ever used them, or intended to use them, to rip off DirecTV's signals.
When did we stop boycotting people who use extortionist threats to block techies from getting access to technological devices?
Are we all going to start doing business with SCO while we're at it?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
It's actually $5.99/month for just the local channels. The cheapest plan you can get (60 channels) is $24.99/month. And there's a mistake in the article as well: Dish is reimbursing everyone $1 for the "loss" of MTV. But they're also reimbursing the people who lost CBS another dollar. (Source: FAQ on the Dish website) A dollar for all the Viacom networks on the list is a bit small, but a dollar for losing CBS out of the local programming is entirely reasonable, I think.
Plus, DirectTV has an (optional) built in Tivo to their receiver, so you don't have to hook one up externally and have it try to control the channels via an irblaster.
...are going to call up EchoStar now that their kids can't sit and watch Nickelodeon all day like zombies?
I would really hate to be an EchoStar cust. serv. rep. right now.
I've called to suspend service through this contract matter and would suggest other displeased Dish subscribers do so as well. SCO, Dish and others need to understand their customers pay their salaries and operating expenses - making us suffer from a contract dispute is grounds for termination of contract. DirecTV doesn't have these problems, Dish.
As our contracts were based on a package channel subscription, it's a reasonable option to provide Dish with 2-3 months to get its act together and suspension of service for this period is a request that has a good legal foundation. Cancelling service this early would have a weaker contractual basis, especially if you have equipment provided with your agreement.
Working with several broadcasters who have their signal picked up by the satellite players, there's a lot more to this than is being represented by Dish. Dish has been rather predatory with respect to its uplink options for local affiliates. Of significance to many is how Dish handles preemption of advertising - running its own ads over local CBS/NBC/Fox/etc. affiliates. There's more to this legal fight than Viacom just hiking rates (part of the hike is to account for Dish's reducing ad reach through preemption - after all, Viacom has to pay its bills too, and without eyeballs from Dish, it is harder for them to command a reasonable rate from an advertiser).
So, I'm willing to let them fight it out over the next few months. Since 80% of the use in our household is for Nick and Comedy Central (my viewing consists of one hour for Sopranos and that can be obtained via VCR), suspending service is a fair request.
Give them a call and join in the "vote with your feet" message. Let Dish know a $1 credit (and unlimited Home Shopping Network access) isn't a fair deal. (Incidentally, dishnetwork.com isn't responding very well right now - call 1-800-333-DISH to request your service suspension).
Screw Viacom. I will take my dollar and buy something fatting with it. Where are those Hostess chocolate dounuts?
Ch. 253 CBSNY and 254 CBSLA .
Same thing as CBS-E and CBS-W that disappeared... interesting.
Let's not all suck at the same time please
I sell Echostar's services for a living and really don't have any illusions about who the good guy is here. There is no good guy. This argument is born entirely of greed and the consumer is nothing but a little circle connected to the much larger Echostar circle with a thick black arrow marked 'income' on the easy to comprehend powerpoint presentation I'm sure is by now doing the rounds at Echostar's orbital death star. Having said that, The Dish Network product that Echostar offers seriously aims to offer a very high value for money proposition. They understand that the psychological barriers involved in switching to their product from cable are very strong. Those ads Comcast ran recently representing the disadvantages of satellite over cable really represent fears the average consumer has; unreliability, bulkiness, and long term contracts worry them. It's mostly FUD, but do not underestimate the power of it.
With that in mind, Echostar has done away with a lot of these issues. They've dropped long term contracts and hardware lease fees, they've developed respectably advanced hardware that minimizes the number of receivers you need in order to watch TV in multiple rooms, and they've added service options for people who seriously think they need professionals to climb up on their roof and nudge their dish every few weeks. In short, they've invested hundreds of millions trying to create a quality proposition to compete with cable. Bearing that in mind, I have no problem believing that a 7 cents per consumer increase in programming price would result in a measurable, if not significant, decrease in Echostar's operating profit.
Of course, as long as we're forced to pay for programs we don't watch in spite of the fact that we all have technology in our home that would empower us to only watch the channels we're interested in and pay the content providers who produce something worthwhile, we'll all have to put up with this crap in one form or another. Whether it's having to miss your Star Trek reruns because the company that ones the network that broadcasts the reruns that you want to see wants the company that allows you to receive those transmissions to force you to receive a cartoon channel that aforementioned company also happens to own and to pay seven cents for the privilige or something a simple as having television that's worthwhile being pulled off the air because ratings measure average viewing habits of incredibly average people with a below average degree of reliability, and executives multiply that by how much money they think they can suck out of these poor average people and equate the resulting dollar value to the word 'good' doesn't really matter. The only people actually being screwed are us, the consumers. If we're not being screwed, they're not doing their job. This whole discussion comes down to nothing more than 'who has the right to screw us more?'
I want the fire back.
Perspective is only useful for some things. I also like put things into orthographic views.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Chalk me up as a Dish supporter.
Dish can even keep my dollar, it's worth it to me to help them fight.
Darren
They're clearly saving more than $1 per customer by not paying Viacom. If they quit paying Viacom now and pissed off customers can't cancel until the next month, they're still going to make a lot of extra dough this month. Even if pissed off customers could cancel immediatly, many won't.
I see a "1.., 2.., and 3. Sell Stock & Profit!" coming..
Luckily, I'm not in one of the markets affected by the CBS blackout. It's the only one of the Viacom channels that's watched in my home and even it is rarely watched.
A dollar off the bill for channels I don't watch? Works for me...
By the way, DirectTV does not have some of the channels, I do watch, so it's not really a better deal. The posts yesterday and today almost have the tone of a DirectTV salesman...
+5 Eloquent and True
4dtv (www.4dtv.com) - big dish, much better signal, much wider selection. Ala carte pricing if you want it.
Most programming for the non-movie channels is comparatively cheap - around $7/year for comedy central and that's both the east and west feeds.
You can still chase wild feeds if you want to tinker a bit - a lot of the uplinks on ku are now in digital but they're not encrypted - just have to add a reciever to play with them.
And beside - a nice 10 or 12ft dish is just much cooler.
I can pick the signal out of thin air with two metal sticks sitting on top of the box.
--I don't need a
TV screen
I just stick the aerial
Into my skin
Let the signal
Run through my brain
T.V.O.D. --the normal
What?
ahh well, at least i didnt lose any karma. =)
but i am most flattered that you took the time to let me know that you think i'm a loser - in fact - I think im in LOVE with you baby! Come 'ere and give me your manmeat!
An antenna mounted in the right spot can pick up a lot of stations. Especially in metro areas. That and a subscription to netflix or the like and you're all set. Now I'm not sure about in other parts of the world and apartments might not allow an antenna on the exterior but there are some decent amplified antennas that can be mounted indoors. Terk makes a decent antenna and it probably costs less than 2 months of cable bills.
http://tinyurl.com/3t236
Sure, it's flamebait, but the fact that many of you are actually upset over one conglomerate's pissing match with another conglomerate is sad. How about instead of crying over being denied your precious Survivor or CSI or whatever, you chuck the TV and turn on your minds? If there are one of two shows you can't live without, download them from eDonkey. Sounds a hell of a lot better than relying on some asshole company to provide you with your daily dose of soul-numbing dreck.
Just a note, according to Dish, it's more like a >40% increase.
-----------------------------------------
Remove the Greed which plagues mankind.
You're not even watching TV right now, are you? exactly.
Life is offtopic.
- RedWolves2 writes "As was mention yesterday,
'As was mentioned yesterday'- Viacom was trying to warn Dish Network customers over the weekend that it's channels
should be its and not it's (it's would imply 'it is' which doesn't work)- DirecTV sounds like a great choice
it was for DSL until they pulled the plug on that deal. not a great track record, but if you like buying tv channels from best buy, it's (it is) your choice.CBVB
free ipod and free gmail!
Everyone here acts like DISH is some white knight. They're as guilty of bundling as the next guy. Do you think for a second that because they can buy alacarte they're gonna SELL to you in the same fashion? Nope. They're gonna bundle and force whatever bundles they want down your throat.
DISH is hiding behind percentages in listing the rate increases, while Viacom has said they're asking for a raise of something like 6 cents/subscriber. Another article pointed out that ALL the Viacom channels together cost less than DISH is paying for JUST ESPN. Considering DISH just raised rates by multiple DOLLARS, it doesn't sound like an out of line request.
Besides, anyone knows that if Viacom holds out for a bit over a week, March Madness on CBS will force Echostar to cave if the Viacom losses don't.
I'd love to see a carte blanche system but it will never in our lifetime. Still, something where there are like 20 5-channel groups for me to pick out my channels would be awesome. They could charge me 3$-5$ per group and we'd all be happy.
-EB
Do you ever walk alone like a drifter in the dark?
Echostar will provide a $1 monthly credit to customers who lose programming while the channels are unavailable. Sorry but $1 a month is not exactly a fair trade off.
d ex.shtml
Guess what? Echostar doesn't own you anything. You should be glad they are giving you that discount, and you'd know it if you actually read the agreement they provide service under. Here's the related section of the agreement:
"G. Changes in Services offered. DISH Network reserves the right to change the Services that we offer, and our prices or fees related to such Services at any time. If the change affects you, we will provide you notice of the change and its effective date. The notice may be provided on your billing statement or by other communication permitted under Section 9B. In the event of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages or other Services, you understand and agree that we have no obligation to replace or supplement the programming, programming packages or other Services previously offered that have been deleted, rearranged or otherwise changed. You further understand and agree you will not be entitled to any refund because of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages, or other Services previously offered."
From http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/RCA/in
DirecTV sounds like a great choice.
Make sure you learn to read their agreement when you sign up. Don't cry about about it after the fact.
this is my sig
Viacom Press Briefing on EchoStar Pulling our Networks
March 9, 2004
Remarks by Mark Rosenthal, President and COO, MTV Networks:
For the past few months, as this situation with EchoStar has unfolded, we've been trying to take the high road, speaking just to the larger issues and trying to ignore the gross distortions and inaccuracies that Charlie Ergen and EchoStar have been flinging around. There comes a point, however, where you have to respond, if only to set the record straight. And that's why we're here today - and we appreciate your taking the time to join us.
As we said in our statement last night, we are disturbed and disappointed by EchoStar's decision to pull the plug on our channels. This is channel yanking by a distributor on an unprecedented scale. This is not something we wanted to happen or would ever want to happen. We are broadcasters and programmers, and the most important relationship we have is with our viewers. The idea that something or someone would disrupt that relationship -- particularly in an effort to extort a better deal for themselves -- is, to us, really reprehensible. And, additionally, as consumer oriented people, it really bothers us to see a company treat its customers with such disregard.
EchoStar has been trying to paint itself as the victim in this situation. To hear them tell it, they were forced to pull the plug on our networks to protect their subscribers from the "exorbitant" rate increases and unfair carriage requirements we were trying to "foist" on them.
In a word, that's ludicrous.
Here are the facts:
First of all, EchoStar is hardly some small mom-and-pop operation that is being pushed around. It has more than 9 million subscribers -- 10% of all multichannel homes and 43% of all satellite households. It is the fourth largest distributor in the U.S. and as a result it has enormous negotiating power.
Faced with the clout that comes with having that massive distribution, we've been doing everything humanly possible we can -- for months now -- to finalize a deal with them. As I said before, the last thing we ever want to do is wind up in a situation where our viewers can't get the channels and shows they love. So in our negotiations with EchoStar, we were extremely flexible and offered substantial compromises.
Now I hope you will keep in mind that every cable and satellite operator negotiates these sorts of agreements, and we have been able to establish and maintain solid business partnerships with virtually all of them. The sole exception is EchoStar/DISH Network.
Along these lines, I would also point out that over the years there have been thousands of successful marketplace negotiations between broadcasters and cable and satellite distributors involving the packaging of retransmission consent rights with cable carriage. In all those cases, only one company ever had a problem with it. That's right -- it was EchoStar, which complained to the FCC about the same "packaging" practices it challenged in its recent lawsuit against Viacom.
As it happens, the FCC decisively rejected EchoStar's complaint, pointing out that Congress established a detailed regulatory scheme that permits broadcasters to negotiate retransmission consent and cable carriage together. For the same reason, the Federal district court judge who is hearing EchoStar's case against Viacom recently denied EchoStar's motion for a preliminary injunction and gave us permission to deauthorize (which we did not do) EchoStar's carriage of CBS if we were unable to work things out.
It's also worth noting that EchoStar has a history of bringing frivolous lawsuits and has been sanctioned or admonished by federal judges several times, including in a litigation with CBS when they were found by a Federal judge to have engaged in "clearly willful" copyright violations. Just this week, a federal judge sanctioned EchoStar in yet another an antitrust case they brought.
Anyway, we could not have worked harder to
There are those of us who are actively displeased with the fact that Viacom puts our money to use funding Music Porn Television. The sooner this works out such that I can get the networks I want without paying for the disgusting trash MTV puts out the better. Bravo to DishNetwork! Here's to hoping they win, that the FTC trust-busts Viacom, and that I can finally get a la carte programming.
(I was surprised to see the Pro-Viacom slant to the article, but then Slashdot opinions are rarely well considered. Slashdot: home of the Anti-Business, Pro-Monopoly, Luddite Technotrope, Schizophrenic Sycophant Rebels.)
Liberty you never use is liberty you lose.
Viacom just won't go for that. Their terms are their terms and they are NOT flexible at all with them. The signal providers must put all of Viacom's big-name channels in their lowest tier of pay-channel service, and pay the rates Viacom wants to charge per subscriber for them.
The distributors are not being given a line item veto. They must accept the entire package, or get none of it. Right now, Echostar's calling that bluff and buying none of it.
It's a standoff all right... the only questions are how long this will go on before somebody blinks, and which side will it be?
I don't get satellite TV or even cable, but I still get Viacom's little bitch-fest ads on my TV. I should just stop watching TV, but the damage is done; Viacom already got on my nerves.
-Rich
Lets see they take away adult swim, comedy central, mtv(s), etc. That leaves you with the various discovery channels, religious programming, and sports. I *wouldn't* buy that for a dollar.
I hope this leads into package buying that empowers the consumer such as buying the viacom package and HBO for a fair fee as opposed to the one size fits all method. Lets stop denying there are media monopolies and start buying what we want from them and have the middle man bill us and send us the signal.
He also threw in 4 stations which were formerly on higher package deals. Boomerang(a 24 cartoon network of classic toons), WAM another offshoot of encore Fellowship of the ring was on tonight. toon disney and FUSE. Unfortunatly for me I already had toon disney and FUSE on my line-up. But people on the cheapest bracket may have lucked out a bit.
Imagine if GM had 95% of the American auto market and built their cars to only run on GM brand gasoline?
Reminds me of the printer cartridge article, "A Cartridge Conspiracy" by Phillip Robinson that's quoted in this post.
...how else are they going to pay for Howard and Janet's playtime?
When I ordered Dish Network with the (then new) DishPlayer, I kept my basic cable "just in case".
As it turned out, it was a good decision: Dish did not carry the SF Bay area NBC affiliate for about a year in 2001-2002, so the cable came in handy; the price of (bundled broadband + basic cable) is within a few cents of unbundled broadband - it will be more hassle than worth dropping it; and now this.
When the NBC crap hit the fan I listened to Charlie's excu^H^Hplanations, and I just knew it was bound to repeat.
I just saw an ad on Comedy Central basically saying that it's now only on DircTV and cable. Why they would care to inform the viewer of this, I have know idea, but the ad is running nevertheless.
Life is offtopic.
As for the Microsoft argument, I don't think that fits ... If I want MTV and get Nickelodean bundled, that doesn't prevent me from watching Cartoon Network
I think, in a way, the parent argument is valid. If Viacom is forcing Dish to carry all these channels at the basic line up as a bundle it DOES effect you from watching the competition. You arent getting MTV for free, you are paying for it as party of your basic subscription when you might get more music if you could spend that $1 on one of the satellite music channels that actually plays music instead of reality TV shows 27/4.
Dish has an obligation to its customers to deliver the service for which they have signed up. We're geeks, we don't think twice about getting behind the equipment rack and adding in an OTA antenna or some other feed.
Joe and Jane Average American do not do this. Especially when over the past few years, since SHVIA, their locals started showing up on Dish (and Direct). Charlie Ergen spent plenty of money advertising that people could switch to Dish and still get their local channels. And in the last couple of years, almost all of their new-subscriber deals involved mandatory free professional installs. So they've got a customer base that can't be expected to know where all those wires go. They just rightly expect they're going to get their channels.
Heck I'm P.O'd and I'm a geek. I'm off on vacation and now my Replay TV, DishPVR, and MediaCenter PC are all recording various "Charlie Ergen pissing match" messages instead of the programming I had them set up for.
Charlie tends to drop the bomb. He has a reputation for being confrontational. A better-managed company would have negotiated this without putting their customers in the middle of it.
Do I agree with Viacom's bundling? No way! But did Dish drop the ball here too? Absolutely.
I didn't sign up for Dish thinking that every time a big network is renegotiating its contract I've got to expect that I might need to change providers. At that point, Comcast looks good.
Dish has Free Speech TV. Probably most of interest to progressive leftists it has programming that you can't find carried anywhere else.
You've obviously never seen the contracts that television is distributed under, $1/sub is probably more than what dish pays for all of the viacom networks. generally channels run from between 5 cents and 15 cents per sub, except for ESPN (another satan of a channel at almost $2/sub).
I was just watching the Daily Show on Comedy Central, and during the commercial break, just about 30 seconds ago, they ran an ad basically blaming the entire incident on Dish Network and saying, "If you have a friend with Dish, he'll be spending a lot of time on your couch". The punchline at the end of the ad said something like "Comedy Central, now only on Cable and DirecTV".
Frankly, Viacom are the scum of the earth. I used to respect the Daily Show as one of the last bastions of fair and balanced (TM) news reporting available. Jon Stewart and the other correspondents seem to be the only (fake) news reporters that actually tell things the way they are, but for some strange reason they are totally silent about this news story, which is one of the biggest news stories on CNN and all other major news networks. I'm sure Viacom has given them a hush order or some other such mandate, but it really stinks of media bias.
I've lost a lot of respect for the Daily Show today, which used to be one of my favorite programs, and I'm seriously considering starting an email campaign against Viacom.
For those of you wanting to give Viacom a piece of your mind, here is the contact information for the CEO:
Mel Karmazin
M-F 9:00 am to 5:00 pm - (212) 975-6500
or better yet, call him at home on the weekend at:
(212) 956-1007
Cheers, and down with massive media conglomerates.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Why does Viacom bundle channels? What is really in it for them?
Surely they would be better served by killing the underperformers, thus reducing their TCO for the "corporation" as a whole and making more profit on the channels that they did send...
Seems to me that they should concentrate on making their offerings have more appeal if they want them to be generally available through cable and satellite. If the channels do not appeal to a large segment of the public then make them subscription channels, separate in their own right, and give the cable or satellite operator a share of the proceeds. That's a win-win-win. Consumers don't have to have the "martha stewart" channel, the cable/satellite co does not have to pay for it, and the provider gets pay per view dollars.
Oh, but what if those dollars are not forthcoming? Well then, provider, you have learned that your offering is not wanted. Shut it down immediately. First law of the free market.
I am not interested.
Firstly, we need to see the FCC step in and tell CBS that they cant place any restrictions on the rebroadcast of CBS content
Packaging wouldnt be so bad if the channels that were packaged were related.
For example, buy the "Disney" package and get all the disney channels in the one package.
Buy the "HBO" package and get all the HBO channels in one package.
Buy "ESPN" and get all the ESPN channels in one package.
Buy "Fox Sports" and get all the fox sports channels in one package.
etc.
I have no problem with being forced to take MTV2 with MTV1 (or whatever), its that if you want any nickelodian channels, you have to take MTV and other crap as well.
I have dish and don't really miss CBS at all hell I never watch most of the channels they pulled anyway, Good thing CBS does not have Nascar then it would be a problem, I am on Charlies side of this one.
Call into one of their call centers 1-800-333-DISH and complain to the agent that you speak to. When they tell you about the $1 off of your bill, demand to speak to a supervisor.
Supervisors have a fair bit of authority. If you make it clear that there is some program on one of those channels that you NEED to watch if you are going to keep their service, they will be more than willing to write more money off of your account.
1 month of everything for free is not out of the question if you play it right and you get the right supervisor at the right time. Hold out, never accept their first offer and you'll go far.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Seriously of every person I know who dish network they watch it because of foreign channels. Which far outweights MTV and comedy central to them.
Think 5% increase in price, plus the added cost of being forced to carry and transmit more viacom channels. If they're carrying say 9 viacom channels right now and are being forced to carry 12 now, the additional costs for carrying Viacom channels have jumped 25% for them in addition to the rate increase. So, from Viacom's perspective, they're only getting 5% more income, but from Dish's perspective, they're paying 30% more.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
I get to save a dollar a month, PLUS, this puts a giant sock in Viacom's mouth. So good, we get to shut them up and our TV's are free of their garb!
I had a poor customer service experience with Dish Network just last Sunday (cancelling an appt. that had been on the books for over 90 days with less then a 24 hour notice to me, after it was too late to reverse the time off I'd requested for the appointment!), so might be a bit biased at the moment, but here's my thoughts (paraphrased from an email I sent via the CEOofDishNetwork@Dishnetwork.com address listed on their website):
...your website seems to indicate that you expect us, the consumers to lobby the networks carried by Viacom to get you a discount??? If I make any call as a result of this fiasco, it will only be to change my satellite TV provider. You need to face the facts and accept the blame, or you're going to lose a lot of people on this one!
You could have easily added alternative programming, additional channels, or even a discounted bill of more than the $1.00 a month you guys are doing. One dollar isn't even the cost of a 2 hour pay-per-view movie on your own network, and yet you've made hours worth of potential viewing material unavailable to me by removing so many of my channels.
This is not good customer service, nor is it good planning!
And I believe what I wrote. They can stick up for themselves and not pay off Viacom all they want, but if I'm the one getting screwed over, I really don't care about their costs. I'm still paying the same (forgetting a moment their paltry $1.00 off deal), and now they're making even more than before due to not having to pay Viacom. Who's winning and who's losing here?
And it's not like they couldn't see it coming. They knew their decision long before we did... They could have shut me up for awhile just by adding some alternative programming to my package until the whole mess was solved. [In the tone of the infamous John Belushi] But NOOOOOOOOO...... [/end rant]
Who lives in a their couch and watches TV
Couch Po-ta-to
Craving for nothing but his MTV
Couch Po-ta-to
If Comedy Central is all that you wish
Couch Po-ta-to
Call up Viacom and demand it on DISH.
I really hate Dan Patrick.
I've been too strapped for cash to get my sat turned back on. But, there are huge communites setup online for downloading episodes of shows. At about 350MB for an XViD rip of beautiful quality for any show, and about 2-3 hours download average it actually works out pretty well. Bittorrent is rather big for this purpose. http://suprnova.org http://torrentz.com both have TV shows sections. IRC has a channel for about every show, most are on irc.irchighway.net:9999 "The Daily Show" hits suprnova.org here and there, although I still have no source for screen savers. Also, archiving the videos is a bit much. I have half a terabyte of harddrive space... about 2 gigs free.
It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.
...to download more porn off the net. Lack of TV is the perfect opportunity!! However I'm not sure if my dollar credit is going to cover all the extra lube and kleenex.
just turn the television off for good?
Five years ago, I did just that. I cannot stand to watch a television now. It is just too stupid. Reality TV? Who wants to be a millionaire? The Osbournes? Give me a break!
What's worth watching? [seriously, I am looking for input] I know the TV folks are worried that "no one" is watching anymore... I think I fit that worry. With a more than full time job, wife, kids, etc [sorry, I am a geek, and dispite the jokes, I don't think I am atypical even if I am a "computer geek" but have a wife and a job in the field].
I don't watch anything on TV on a regular basis, am I missing anything? I have cable - about 70 channels or so. My 10 year old watches various anime and cartoon things, when he has time. My 14 year old will watch American Chopper if I remember to record it on my ATI-AIW equiped computer. I will ocaissionally walk in on my wife "watching" something like "batchelor" or "Millionaire", but odds are she's actually asleep since she works hard too.
If we have any spare time, the 14 year old would rather get on AIM, or physically hang with friends. I waste what little time I have on QII, /., and other non-TV activities.
I have the expandanded cable package, but no pay channels, such as HBO, etc. Every few months I try to watch something on Comedy Central [besides South Park] but I get so offended by the number of commercials I just turn it off after a bit. For random watching the History Channel or Discovery might cough up somethign worth watching, but seriously - is there anything compelling on TV?
Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't even miss a network or two from my cable line-up.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
To force Dish to lose customers over this, to gain negotiating leverage against Dish.
I dont think its a case of Dish 'pulling the channels' Its a case of Dish not wanting to pay more for some additional channels that Viacom wanted to force them to take (and pay for), and Viacom has pulled the channels *from* Dish (or at least, pulled their authorization to distribute them)
I'm sorry, but my cable bills are getting outrageous, and I just have basic cable. Cable costs me more and more every year for the same stupid basic channels I've had for the past 10 years.
Part of the reason these bills are skyrocketing is that companies like Viacom are burdened with huge debt.
They can't raise their advertising rates because they don't have the Nelson ratings... get this: Viacom brings us MTV and the likes of Howard Stern. There have been huge public outcries against such programming aired on MTV, Howard Stern and Viacom's other channels/shows. The media response has always been: "If you don't like what you see, change the channel." So that's exactly what people have done. They can't raise advertising rates without the ratings, so they're losing advertisers. Their debt is getting out of control, so they turn to the distributors.
Viacom has told its distributors, specifically Dish Network, that it is raising its rates by six cents per-channel, per-subscriber, per-month. If I were a subscriber to Dish Network, this would mean my monthly bill would need to go up nearly a buck. This is completely outrageous in an industry where 1/4 of a cent in increases is big.
Needless to say, this equates to millions of dollars per-year in added revenue without having to change a single business practice. [Read: easy money]
I say that if Viacom wants more money, they should start underwriting movies and television that people want to watch, just like everyone else.
I applaud Dish Network for putting their foot down.
I say: SUPPORT DISH NETWORK, BOYCOTT VIACOM!
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
I have an apartment with a northeast-facing balcony and no line-of-sight to either DirecTV or Dish Network's satellites' azimuths, you insensitive clod!
Maybe we should have; Corporate Wars: Battle Royale. Corporations pick champions, cladded in hi-tech armor, and put them in an arena. Winner dictates terms based on how well they did in the arena.
Or maybe they did, and (a) followed their advice, or (b) ignored it.
anyone know for sure?
"They can do whatever they want and people will still crawl over each other to get to their content."
Even download it off the Internet.
As things stand customers who lose CBS affilates get $1, all customers who lose MTV get $1. However we all know the fee Dish was paying Viacom is more then this. So as things stand with the $2 max payout, Dish is actually making money off of this. Sure they're fighting the good fight against the big bad network, but while no one is looking they're bending over their own customer base. Write them (CEOofDishNetwork@Dishnetwork.com), call them (1-800-333-dish), let them know you support their effort to stop carson daily and friends from their quest for world domination, but that no one should be making money off of the fight, espically if we're serving as their minons calling CBS and complaining. Give us our money, keep your endless cribs marathons.
My comedy central is showing this, accompanied by some funky music.
I've understood that ESPN and cohorts have been charging an arm and a leg for their shite. My understanding is that they've been hiking their rates through the roof. Some may like their stuff but others like me don't watch it but still have to pay a stiff fee for it.
This may be a little off topic but I'd like to hear from someone that knows the facts about this and just whose feed troughs my cable bill is going into.
Viacom's packaging of channels is reasonable for the non-broadcast stations, but using the CBS locals as leverage violates the spirit, if not the letter of their broadcast license. If you want MTV, leave dish, but if you want CBS, then complain to the FCC and your elected officials. WHos to say it won't be a cable network, or DirecTV when their contract is up.
Well, living in the sticks, I can hapilly say I didn't lose CBS myself - which is good, cause we can't get it off-air anymore. I don't watch much of the network programming, actually, but I'd hate to lose some of the local stuff.
I'm still trying to sort out exactly what we lost. The article mentions ten networks, but doesn't list them. I can only count eight, unless Nick-at-Nite is considered as seperate from Nickelodeon, which IIRC it is. We still have SpikeTV, HGTV, CMT, and TVLand. At the same time, they have given us no new channels over what we had (we have the 120 channel package). Too bad, I was hoping we'd get Boomerang.
Actually, I don't miss any of the ones we lost other than ComedyCentral, but I've been rather worried that we'll lose SpikeTV before it's all over with. I wouldn't care six days and 22 hours a weeek, but I'd hate to lose Monday night RAW.
DirecTV doesn't carry our local stations yet, so my parents aren't likely to switch. OTOH, I really don't care unless I lose my wrestling.
Dishnet has two DVR model lines -- Dishplayer and Dish. The lowest tier of each group is ONLY single tuner, Dishplayer models 510 and Dish 501/508. I believe Direct TV had dual tuner units a few years before Dish Net did.
I know because I have the Canadian equivalent to the Dish 508 on Express Vu (Express Vu employs Dishnet technology). Many Express Vu customers are anxiously awaiting the dual tuner units that are to be released very soon. There is a six month to a year lead time between Dishnet and Express Vu equivalent model releases.
Point is, some of the lower end DVR units are still single tuner.
As long as Dish Network still carries FreeSpeech TV I am happy, who needs Viacom's corporate channels anyway.
There are much bigger problems in the world than a few worthless channels.
I'm disgusted by the whole thing. Greedy bastid's running over uninformed consumers.
For those of you wanting to give Viacom a piece of your mind, here is the contact information for the CEO
You are a hypocrite and a coward. You publish the private phone number of a CEO you disagree with, but you do it from an account with a hidden email address and no meaningful contact information.
It's the mob that anonymously attacks selected individuals. Today's internet, with its spammers and virus writers, slashdotters and pirates, is a modern day mob. Go ahead and throw rocks at SCO, Microsoft, Gates, Linus, Jobs, or anyone else with the balls stand up and make a difference - good or bad. But please, don't hide behind your electronic mask.
Dave
P.S. This is another reason why internet voting is a bad idea.
and his criminal acts. In public. Full condemnation. Or you and I have nothing to talk about. Your manipulative dishonesty is transparent.
Viacom has a market cap a hair over $68 billion, and net income (after taxes, interest payments on their debt, depreciation, and amortization) of $1.44 billion dollars.
EchoStar (Dish Network's parent) has a market cap of $16.61 billion, and net income loss (same basis) of $880 thousand.
Does anyone really think Viacom NEEDS those extra fees?
Or the Cartoon Network?
I call your troll. There is a ton of programming for children still available on Dish.
Imagine if GM had 95% of the American auto market and built their cars to only run on GM brand gasoline?
Or worse yet, imagine there was a software company that had 95% of the OS market and used it to prevent competition with its other offerings, and a long running anti-trust trial buried by a corporate-minded administration.
*SHUDDER*
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
I live just down the road from Echostar's customer service center. When I drove by it this evening it looked like every parking space in the lot was filled (very unusual). Looks like they're paying a lot of overtime to their customer service reps to handle the increased volume of calls.
I have a hunch that like it or not, the a la carte programming is the way of the future. I can't tell you how many times I've told my friends I would pay 2-5$ a month for MTV2, Cartoon Network and Independent Film Channel. Eventually, the cable cos will be compelled by market forces to offer a 35mbps pipe to homes and networks will be plentiful. Imagine an Atom Films Network. Or a "Stupid Funny Videos" network. Soon enough (3-5 years) WE will be the content providers. All Simpsons & Family Guy network? With the right licensing, it's done. SciFi Network too limiting? Try Twilight Zonez (?) Future producers may be able to take their shows direct to public. Weird, second-run movies can be run pay per view. Give me the fat bandwidth and it's a done deal. The economics may be hazy now but the future will work it out . . .
harmonious design
From NYT story:
EchoStar has said it will credit each subscriber who loses CBS $1 a month. Consumers who lose the cable networks will receive a comparable-size credit.
Other stories suggest the credit will be $1 per channel per month.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
"I work for SCO and I believe that our lawsuits have merit..."
-cmh
Check out the whois on the domain "ilostmyfavoritechannels.com". It was registered by Viacom back in January! The page contains anti-Echostar remarks and links to go sign up for the competition. Check it out for yourself. WTF is up with that?
Was Viacom planning ahead of time on Dish not giving in to their demands, so they could try to "teach them a lesson" by pulling the channels? What's with all the anti-Dish stuff aired by Viacom on their stations? Viacom keeps pointing the finger at Dish, basically stating that the channels were "removed."
Maybe Viacom was setting out to cause harm to Echostar, who has a history of refusing to bend over and take it when it comes to price increase demands. Or maybe I'm being a little on the conspiracy theory side of things. But I wouldn't put such a thing past them. Everything they're doing (the banners, the anti-Dish stuff, etc.) only keeps pointing the finger at them and away from Echostar.
In case it wants to change, here's the whois for the domain:
Registrant:
MTVN Online Partner 1 LLC (SMQELJVTUD)
1515 Broadway
8th Floor
Attn Pier Borra
New York, NY 10036-5794
US
Domain Name: ILOSTMYFAVORITECHANNELS.COM
Administrative Contact:
MTVi-Admin Contact (35876815O) mtvi-admin@mtvigroup.com
MTVi-Admin Contact
MTVi Group
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036-5794
US
+1 212 846-3367 fax: +1 212-654-9068
Technical Contact:
Amirian, Brian (36553847P) amirianb@mtvi.com
1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
US
212 846 3223
Record expires on 16-Jan-2006.
Record created on 16-Jan-2004.
Database last updated on 10-Mar-2004 02:46:42 EST.
this is my sig
Might as well complain about the root problem instead of the symptoms.
I have Dish; MTV is crap... good riddance. And News Corporation ows DirecTV, so better they get new business than Comcrap, Turder, Choderunner, Cocks, etc.
SCO: 800-726-8649
Verisign: 800-361-8319, 888-642-9675
Diebold: 800-433-VOTE (8683)
Geezuz. No mention on slashdot anywhere where people would WANT HDTV. http://www.voom.com Satellite company, new startup, provides more HD channels than anyone. Can't find any reveiws, has anyone looked at this or signed up?
I had stopped watching Survivor, but this round has drawn me back in.
I have Dish and have two plans - one is to possibly just hook up an antennta and get signal the old-fashioned way!!
The other way (which I'll try first I think) is to hook up the old cable line (currently running my cable modem only) and see what channels I can get off that. Often the local channels and a few other ones are just sitting around for the taking, no box needed (or at least it was that way years ago, I'll see if it's all digital now or what).
In the end I'm probably switching to Voom soon anyway, I wonder what they do? They sure have a cheap monthly rate.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I suppose I'll engage in what's probably flamebaiting, and air my opinions on this subject.
I know my fellow nerds are getting hurt by this situation, and that it's going to get worse before it gets better... but I still can't get up the will within me to get up off my duff and do anything about it. Aside from the fact that I no longer watch television (with one very, very rare exception: PBS's "Nova"), I see this as two uncaring, gigantic, emotionless corporations dueling out.
The closest metaphor I can put this situation into, and it's an overblown one at that, is this: The village of Viewrton has a relatively small but happy and harmless population; it has the normally great coincidence of being bordered on one side by Greater Evil Empire Viacom and The Evil Republic of DishStar. Normally, the village of Viewrton benefits from the services and wooing of both with minimal expense in return, but this situation has half of the villagers taken hostage at gunpoint by The Evil Republic, and the remainder taken hostage at gunpoint by Greater Evil Empire. The village is empty, and none of the villagers had a damn thing to do with the dispute, but they're now the ones suffering. (Like I said, it's an overblown metaphor.)
The fact is, though, that both companies are blackmailing each other with the same customer base (read: population of customers). Viacom is saying to DishStar, "pays us more for this package, or we'll take away all our best channels, and your customers flee." Meanwhile, DishStar is saying to Viacom, "We want things like they were before or better, rather than like it's been recently; if you don't fold in to our demands, we pull our customer base out from under you, and our customers are forced to flee from you."
Meanwhile, neither company seems to realize that they're threatening each other with the same damn thing, and the customers are caught in the middle, confused, enraged, and unable to trust either corporation.
And what's the effect on me, personally? It's another disgusting abuse of trust committed by corporations, and it makes me even more dead-set against wanting to support either. I said above that I don't watch television anymore, with the single exception of one show on PBS, and I'm ever-more determined to hold to that. I am and have for the past four years been utterly sick and tired with ALL the bullcrap these giant media conglomerations have been pulling, not just on Americans but a great deal of the world population. Through a psychological dependence of bread and circuses, these media corporations hold control, and only a few can find the guts or shake the lies to break away. This isn't the first unpunished crime of theirs, and it won't be the last... not by far.
All of that being said, I suppose I'll apologize for what has probably been flamebait (someone else can better use that karma, I'm sure), and hit the sack. (It's always night, somewhere....)
Sorry, and guten nacht zu allen!
~UP
Eat the Path.
What company owns:
... marketed to an evil extent)
Block Buster Video (The Home of the famous lying video check in time)
Sponge Bob Square Pants (pretty funny, but
and
Nickelodeon -- Attention Span Destroying / Ugly graphics / Warp your kids channel
I don't like Viacom.. almost as much as I dislike Fox Internet (www.foxineternet.net)... well actually a lot more... but Clear Channel feels worse...
Don't let Viacom charge excessive rates! Drop em, Screw em... let them lower their rates.
Please use [ informative / summarizing ] SUBJECT LINES
Flame me here
IT'S SPELLED "EUPHEMISM"! FFS!
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Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
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OJ Says DirecTV is the way to go. Forget about cable and Dish Network. Whether you pay for your TV reception, or just steal it, the choice of the stars and ex-wife murderers everywhere is DirecTV
So Viacom to the carriers is like Msft to PC shops: if you're going to sell out vastly popular products that can make or break you (ok, maybe Viacom doesn't have that much of a headlock on the market) you will have to bundle in the crappy startups we are trying to capture the market in (IE, etc).
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I won't be switching to DirecTV.
Remember DirecTV is suing thousands of people whose only crime is to own a smart-card programmer - regardless of the use to which they put it.
Do not support this evil company whose business strategy is pure extortion!
Don't throw your computer out the window, throw the Windows out of your computer!
Something I have not seen during this discussion about bundling is a complaint about the "other" shows that you don't watch on the channels you do watch.
There is much derision over the issue of having to pay for BET, MTV and Nick so you can get Comedy Central, which is the only channel you happen to watch (YMMV). But what I want is content-level granularity--on CC, I only watch South Park and The Daily Show and occassionally Reno 911! (yeah, yeah, as if the stuff *you* watch is somehow justifiable). My point is: I could not give a rat's patootie about any other CC content, for all I care, the screen can be blacked out right before South Park and right after.
I like IFC, TechTV, History Channel, and the audio stations, but there are so many damn commercials on all but the audio-only channels (and why are the Techtv commercials compressed so much that the volume is DOUBLED?) that I have about had it with the whole damn thing.
I am glad Echostar decided to stand up to Viacom. But honestly, I am at the point where if there is one more price increase, I'm dumping the dish and will not watch tv anymore at all. We live out in the sticks and there is no cable service, so Time-Warner can bit my butt, too. In fact, I got the dish back when we lived in an apartment because I was so fed up with Time -Warner Cable and found myself to be morally compromised if I paid them another single cent.
Let's face it: 100, 150, 250 channels, and there is still nothing much worthwhile (and if you don't count goofy shopping channels and audio stations, the number is more like 35). I have the Dish 100 (now called 120, go figure) and many of the shows I used to watch have been "moved" to premium channels only available on the more comprehensive packages. So if they can work on the granularity of individual shows, I see no reason why I can't demand to pay only for the shows I actually care about watching!
We are not getting much value for the entertainment dollar, especially now that there are so many more commercials on pay tv. Plus, everything has gone to reality shows or has been taken over by feminists--A&E, Discovery & TLC used to have a lot more documentaries and educational programming, but all of it has been replaced with complete garbage.
TNN (formerly The Nashville Network) used to have programming that had a niche following (people who like Country & Western music loved TNN), but even that is not allowed in today's New World Generic Order--TNN was gutted and turned into a bland nothingness. The NATIONAL NETWORK? Give me a break... Not everyone is a hip-hop fan, m'kay?
The bottom is going to fall right out of the monopoly, wait and see.
I got sick of the sewage, imfomercials, talking heads, and time wasted so I unplugged the TV back on Oct. 2nd... canceled cable the next day.
:-)
It took almost 2 months before I quit missing the stupid thing but now I wouldn't ever go back to having a TV.
Life without TV is good. Now almost 6 months of being "TV Free"
... but let's face it - the point is that any Corporation can do whatever it wants in the markets they can control. And they do as a matter of policy, this isn't an unusual thing happening here it's the status quo.
:)
I realize I'm pointing out a generalization here
I don't think BET is racist, it's just misnamed. BET really should be 'Urban Entertainment Television'.
There are lots of black demographics that BET does not appeal to, and some other racial demographics that it does.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
I know that some of you think I'm helping viacom, but I cancelled my Dish service last night. Here's my take - two big corporations can't work it out, and I suffered for it. And paid for the priviledge. Of course they tried to talk me down when I called, but never offered me anything - not a free month, not a package upgrade, nothing. You would think that dish would at least grease the squeaky wheel. And let's define suffering - I can't watch TV anymore. Big whoop. Dormant brain cells are awakening as I type this. The one show that I'll miss is the Daily Show - which is viacom. And, I refuse to give Viacom my business anymore, so there's no point in having dish or cable if I'm going to boycott Viacom.
Seems to me you are advocating allowing Viacom to use extortion to get what they want. Frankly, I won't miss anything that DISH cut from the plate except the Daily Show on Comedy Central. MTV hasn't had any decent programming since the mid 80's. Since you seem to be a salesman for the competition, perhaps you should add that to your signature.
Have a nice day.
If you have been affected by this, visit this website and file for a class-action for unfair business practices.
http://www.bigclassaction.com/
Lawyers shark this website and take up suits that feel will earn them money or reputation. Anyone standing up against Viacom and MTV in an election year has a good chance of getting some publicity.
I would recommend that you file as unfair business practices that you lost channels you were paying for because Viacom was trying to force new channels down your provider and pass the cost to you even though you didn't want them. You should be able to mantain the contract you have with your network and not be responsible for paying what Viacomm is trying to force upon you.
Get involved and stand up for your rights!
the DISH PVR offerings suck. Read the forums - bug after bug after lost show(s!). They have single tuners, I tried a Replay and felt the pain of a single tuner but at least with the Replay I could pull the video off the system without removing the drive ala DISH. DISH used to let me get East and West coast locals so I could time shift without a second tuner but they stopped that, a single tuner wasn't going to cut it. Sure, DISH has some dual tuner PVR, one that I'm sure of, but it will NOT deconflict between the two tuners if you schedule two things to be recorded at once - you must do it yourself! (this from a review of the box when it was released) Season Pass? DISH never heard of it. Video Extraction? Pull the drive to do it with a DISH system. Network connection for streaming? Nope, cannot do it. I was about to purchase the new super duper duel tuner DISH PVR that could handle HDTV and everything else - DISH pushed it's release back another 6 months. It was already a year late. They revealed that it wouldn't be feature complete on release. I switched to DIRECT after more than 5 years as a DISH customer as a result of this news. Oh, they said they will waive my "reconnect fee" (?!) if I switch back since I was such a longtime customer. Puhlease!
:-O Luckily I had recorded a bunch with my Replay and now have it all on DVD :-P Skinamax stuff is crappy.
I have a DIRECTIVO now. It has two 120+Gig drives with over 200 hours of capacity. It has a USB 100meg network connection that allows me to pull fairly compliant MPEG video (unscrambled) pretty easily. I can customize the graphics if I choose. It has a WEB server on it that allows me to monitor it's status. I can Telnet into it to do maintenance or make changes, I can also watch for errors as it boots on a console terminal. It won't skip commercials but my Replay couldn't do that anymore on many channels anyway. I DO have a 30second skip that works great for getting past commercials. The TIVO will also record shows it think I might like - often I don't want them but I can delete content easily enough.
My ONE complaint with the TIVO is the SLOW ass CPU. With this much data being recorded it can take forever to bring up a list of recorded shows . Oh, and yes I've hacked the snot out of my DIRECTIVO box, most of this simply cannot be done with the DISH PVR. Too bad DISH keeps developing their own crap, they should have bought Replay or licensed TIVO!
DISH has one single solitary advantage - P0RN. DIRECT needs to get a clue, DISH is MUCH better for P0RN and my girlfriend (!) was pissed that we can no longer pay a monthly fee to get an unlimited feed - SHE actually called and bitched at the DIRECT sales guy!
P.S. For those interested in extraction or hacking a TIVO Series2 as I've done you will want Sleeper's ISO offered on Dealdatabase.com where talk of video extraction is ENCOURAGED unlike the crappy Tivo "community" forum run by the TIVO Gestapo...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
I heard that Kenny might die in the next episode of South Park. Now withour Comedy Central I will never know :-(
Any company fighting Viacom has my dollar.
Reviews I read on the 721 stated that it wouldn't deconflict between the two tuners so if you had two things that needed to be recorded at the same time you had to assign tuners yourself - no thanks. Getting video out of the 721 to DVD takes removing the drive from the box and mounting it on a PC - that SUX.
The 921 is the box I wanted - they pushed it's release back an additional 6 months right around Christmas. There might be one or two running around on the streets but so far as I could tell mere mortals couldn't get them and they cost a GRAND. DISH seldom does hardware deals for current subscribers unless it was old crap they wanted to clear off the shelves. DISH can call me when they get a clue and license TIVO or Replay code for their boxes. They have yet to release a DVR that hasn't had bugs up the wazoo.
As to the 921 getting Firewire - why was it "released" (*cough*) with this disabled in the first place?! It was held back an entire year, is released in "limited quantities", costs a mint, and has crippled features - why exactly would I go DISH to have that? HD would sure be nice but considering the investment it requires and the baggage that the "content producers" are going to stick in it I'll wait thanks. I like my hacked DIRECTIVO just fine, I left DISH because of their stupidity over DVRs and the only thing I miss was the decent P0RN offerings...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
The way I see it is this.
The one dollar credit is a way to cover all the packages. The low package (24.99) would be more than a dollar, and the high end one (54.00) would be less than a dollar. The package I have (29.99/month is basic 60 + locals) works out to about 3 a month I should get. I am not in an area that has CBS cut out.
Dish has said that they will not raise rates till 2005. Now I am not saying that I know all the details, and I highly doubt that anyone on the boards does know all the details, but from what I have seen, from both sides, is that Viacom wants more money, and wants to stick in more channels. Dish/E* won't do it. According to Dish/E* it would make them raise rates to get the channels.
While there really isn't any of the channels that are blacked out to me that I watch, I am with Dish on this one. I do think that the credit should be more proportional to what you have gotten, but atleast it is a good effort to give something.
I find this ironic that Dish wants to have the ability to pick what channels they receive, but I have to buy their stupid packages.
Just like everyone has his or her own corner of the Internet, is everyone trying to get his or her own little entertainment channel going? And are they expecting to be able to use the cable/dish companies to reach into the consumers' pocketbooks and siphon out money?
The cable and dish companies have monthly price points at which they market their offerings. They know that Grandpa Joe Innercity is just fine with local analog basic service for $11.99. Bob and Mary Suburban are willing to pay $44.99 to get ESPN and the Home and Garden Network in the standard package. Tom and Bridget Twohourcommuters will pay $79.00 to get movies. And of course, there is always a market for pr0n and sp0rts, for which some people will pay extra.
If every channel is demanding $1.00-$2.00 to get into the standard analog package and the provider needs to make money, then consumers are looking at $200 per month, which is an oppressive burden on the median income.
In Minneapolis/St. Paul, Victory Sports is the sole carrier of Minnesota Twins Major League baseball. None of the cable companies have even stepped to the bargaining table, as the $2.30 per month demanded by the channel is too high a price.
TV Viewers Beware: Sports Fees Ahead
Victory Sports and Viacom are both taking the stand that consumers are going to scream for these channels on their service. The cable/dish companies are going to rightly state that it will cost...A LOT. Then we will see where the screaming goes. In the meantime, to watch CSI Miami on CBS, I get 39 minutes of show and 21 minutes of commercials. Even the credits roll over with the local news.
Have you Meta Moderated t
I'll take an S2 over an S1 any day of the week! Head over to Dealdatabase.com and read a clue. I can do extraction via a 100meg USB NIC just as easily now as I could with my Replay. You do NOT have to pull the drive from a DIRECTIVO to do extraction, I get it over the network easily! The "scramble" crap that DIRECT insisted on is easily defeated using one of three different (software) methods detailed on dealdatabse.com. In fact Sleeper's ISO does it ALL for you step by step and even shows you the commandlines it runs before making each step (backup, restore, Monte, and hacks). Backup and hacking of a DIRECTIVO S2 is DIRT simple!
I'd LOVE to hear what exactly an S1 can do that an S2 cannot. I have console access, a WEB server running, FTP, Telnet, 2x 120Gigs worth of space, an off the shelf USB NIC, I could run wireless sans WEP if I wanted, and I get my guide updates via satellite. Oh, and my MPEG compression is better since DIRECTIVO don't recompress. Te video extracted from my DIRECTIVO is more compliant than my Replay box's video ever was too...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
The ONLY feature the SA boxes have that a DIRECTIVO owner might want is the ability to do folders in the recorded shows listing. Newer code has already been hacked onto DIRECTIVOs which is why the image servers got nailed by TIVO. The HMO functionality can be hacked into the DIRECT boxes via code out there that duplicates the functionality and some have probably figured out how to get HMO working on the DIRECT boxes but aren't talking about it because it's service theft. HMO is NOT a good reason to go SA, dual tuners and the ability to watch something already recorded while BOTH tuners are recording IS a good reason to go DIRECTIVO...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
So if we renamed The Huntin' and Fishin' Channel to "White Entertainment Television", you'd be OK with that? :)
Hey, at least they didn't name it "NTV".
Charlie is whining because he's being forced to take content he doesn't want?! Cry me a river Charlie - I didn't want about half the crap I was forced to take when I had DISH too. You want sympathy?! Tell me they are trying to charge too much, tell me they are making other unreasonable demands, tell me anything but "I'm being forced to take channels I don't want" and I'll feel for him...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
"Now now kids, you can still see fart jokes on Nickelodeon!"
Hehe, I just couldn't help myself.
--
Adobe's anti-counterfeiting softw
they don't offer local channels, but they WILL provide an antenna... how nice. they can va va voom themselves outta here, Dish is still tops on price for small packages.
Don't you understand? If DirecTV still has those channels - it means they gave in to Viacom's prices. Don't you want to stay with the carrier that is agressively negotiating pricing? They're saving _you_ money in the long run by not putting up with this BS! This makes Dish Network _more_ attractive to me!
MTV2 actually does play music. Sometimes its actually good. At least I still get fuse
I've been following this story and I can say that this is not a big story. It didn't even appear on cnn.com until the channels were pulled. And there has not been an episode of the Daily Show produced since then.
What we need to do is support Dish, not Viacom. Viacom, ABC/Disney, Time-Warner, and NBC all have way too much power to dictate to the cable and satellite carriers the terms and conditions under which they will be allowed to carry their channels, and use the local affiliates and popular channels to dictate the package placement of their other channels.
How many channels are in your cable/satellite package that you NEVER watch? What are you paying for those? (And note that everybody's list is different!)
The FCC needs to mandate a complete unbundling of channels. Total a la carte pricing and selection. Give the consumer the choice.
I think it is a bit hypocritical of Dish Network to complain about bundling when that is exactly what they do with their "Packages." It's not like I can choose not to get QVG, HSN, Oxygen, etc. I have to get a dozen crappy channels just to get the few that I want. If the Dish Network let me pick the channels I wanted, I would be more sympathetic to their complaints about Viacom.
Jens Wessling
All Dish customers please try this one out. Last night they had the LOTR Fellowship marathon. Tonight is Monsters inc. This channel is being provided in lieu of all Viacom channel.
Viacom wants six cents per subscriber more for these channels but dish network decides that's unreasonable( I called the other night) so they are giving the customers $1.00 allowance? Heck even though I have Comcast cable almost all I watch is Spike TV (formerly TNN) and Comedy central...
Maybe it's time to ask congress to pass a law saying every channel needs to be sold independently, until everyone learns to play nice.
Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
Keep that trash off of my Dish -
Maybe show something better like Animal Planet or Public TV stations in it's place!
To me, it's a big improvement,
don't bring them back...
I have to give Charlie credit for standing up to viacom.
I agree with this. They could have just jacked up the prices and shrugged at the customers helplessly, but they didn't.
The question is which move is more unpopular, raising rates by 40% or cutting off some channels?
I see Viacom as the bad guy here. There's no reason they need to raise rates, since most (if not all) of their channels are advertising-supported; they only stand to benefit from the additional viewership brought to them by Echostar. Instead, they decided to get greedy.
Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
My contract with Dish Networks will be up at the end of May.
After realizing that all I really ever watch is CNN, CNN Headline News, The Weather Channel, and Spike, it seems that this doesn't really matter much to me.
But after paying upwards of $40 a month for the Top 100 package and for local broadcast channels, it seems to me I'd rather have that $40 per month to spend on other things (like high-speed wireless)...
All other issues aside, whether this is Viacom's or Echostar's fault is irrelevant. Due to a new contract being negotiated, I am now getting less value (channels) for my money. I don't care if Dish is "standing up to Viacom's strong-arm tactics," or whatever you choose to call it. Refunding $1 per month in exchange for my losing a dozen channels seems rather a pittance, but maybe I'm alone in my opinion.
My conclusion to this whole fiasco is, I hardly watch TV at all anyway. I'll be perfectly happy to cancel Dish at the end of May and live with no TV at all -- no satellite, no cable, no broadcast.
Myrrh
Or so I read.
No, it's their own home brewed PVR with FAR more bugs than TIVO, no Season Pass functionality, no video extraction ability unless you pull the drive from the case, and overall a poorer feature set. TIVO isn't synonomous with DVR\PVR but it IS a DVR\PVR....
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Odd, I get just as many channels with DTV now as I did with DISH. I don't get their sports network either. My cost per month is almost exactly the same with the savings being becasue I no longer pay per month for a P0RN channel - DTV doesn't have monthly subs for those :-( What I DO get that I could NOT get on DISH is TIVO. IMO it was a worthwhile switch and it was NOT because of this VIACOM tiff either....
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
I know this is a joke, but seriously - that doesn't matter. The apartment complex cannot prevent you from mounting a dish on the South side or roof, and running cable....
:)
There is a law (forget which one, you google if you care) that was passed around 99 or so that makes it illegal to restrict the placement of antenna under certain size...
I had to use the law to get my CCR modified on my house so that we could put in a dish - which until that time was prohibited by the neighborhoods CCR. Of course, then I got smart and moved out of a place with CCRs....
First off I don't understand why anyone would miss any channel owned by Viacom, the huge liberal monopoly that is corrupting our youth. (Woops did I just say that? I will probably end up flamebait.)
Secondly, Dish Network is fighting for lower prices from this monopoly that is called Viacom. I personally wish I could order my cable service sans Viacom and ESPN, which are the most expensive channels on cable.
I would be happy with just AOL and Fox networks, I could care less about ABC/Disney as well. It looks like Viacom will be buying ABC/Disney soon.
What!? They actually knock money off your bill for less crap on your TV and you're complaning!?!?
I mean, come on... What could you be paying per month to have the privelege of being an advertisement receiver - $5? I hope you're not stupid enough to be paying more. If the world were fair, they'd be paying you to watch their crap (except for porn, of course).
That is all.
We've had cable on and off a few times over the past five years, and have come to the conclusion there's nothing worth paying for. All sorts of better ways to spend your time than watching the same bad programming on a gazillion channels that they charge you wayyyyyy too much for.
I've never quite gotten the concept of having to "pay" for TV. I realize there are costs associated with installing cable, satellites, etc. but those are sunk costs and eventually its all pure profit, baby. Shouldn't advertising cover all the costs, when you think about it? My education was basically PAID for by ads - my dad was a film editor at a local TV station for 30 years.
The more disturbing and much larger issue here than simply extorting money is the danger of large oligopolies that have the ability to dictate the market - as well as throttle any speech that they might find "offensive" (ie - criticism of them, the Republican party, or whatever).
I switched to DirectTV yesterday for two reasons. First I have wanted to get the sunday ticket for years now and Dish can't provide it. Second, they cut viacom off yesterday. I don't care an ass about the stupid little guy against the giant. Please people, don't try to make this into a holy war. CBS is the most watched daytime channel, kids all over america are shitting themselve about Nick. And gangsters can't get their ganster rap on MTV. This is a business, they provided a service, don't cut channels because you can't work out contracts. STUPID move on dish's part. They site was down yesterday, the phones where ringing off the hook and direct TV was getting all the action. Every expense is passed on to the viewer so big deal about the additional .69 cents that would have been passed on.
What the Hell???? A Suprise party for ME !!
I have the cheapest package plus locals. One of my locals went away because apparently it is also owned by Viacom. I'm pretty busy today, but after I post this I plan to send Dish CEO a little note expressing my support for what he's doing. I'm all for stirring things up a bit and not being pushed around.
Dan
I also applaud Dish on their choice. Even though i can't watch southpark, or laugh at the fools on mtv, i'm ok with that. I'm not old enough to live on my own yet, and my parents and i talked about this last night. They said that they really don't care, and frankly, neither do i. I've got enough south park on my computer, and the ablility to download the episode from this week. If i wanted to watch survivor, i'd hit up radio shack, buy a set of rabbit ears, and watch it on broadcast tv. Completly free. I laughed when i read Viacom's statement about dish network. I remeber when we got our service over 3 years ago, they said they would not raise their rate until 2005. And i think this is following that. Dish has been very helpful to us, the guy at tech support helped my dad and i put up the dish on our new house, over the phone. Yeah, it took longer, but i applaud everybody who is going to stick this out. I know i will, and it won't bother me one bit. That's why i have a computer, and /.
-Kyle
Voting is SUPPOSED to be anonymous. There are many reasons why internet voting is a BAD IDEA, but anonymity is not one of them.
The programming bill for a cable or satellite company, is *huge* - their single biggest operating expense by far. And the rate at which networks *increase* their rates would blow your mind. Networks are pretty greedy, I assure you. So next time when you see an increase in your cable bill, you need to blame both the cable company *and* the networks. In fact, the bulk of the increase is usually due to networks increasing their rates.
Add to that both US satellite systems use multiple satellites, and either multiple dishes or eliptical dishes with dual LNBs (heads) and a switch to switch between the LNBs/dishes (often contained within the dish itself). For example Dish runs a pair of satellites close together in orbit over the center of the country with the bulk of the premium content on it, households get a dual LNB dish to pick up both of these, they also use targetted spot-beam transponders to send local programming to particular areas (so they can reuse the same frequency several times) - less commonly used local channels (not the big network ones), HD and some foreign content is available on 2 satellites to the west and east (the west one covers Hawaii too) - if you want that content you have to buy a second dish and a switch. Cable has the advantage that all the QAMs run on the same cable, no switches are needed (except in certain older markets - Like bits of San Jose)
So a 'tuner' can only be tuned to one frequency on one dish at a time (or to look at it the other way one transponder on one satellite), certainly it can't blindly record any arbitrary 2 programs at any one time (maybe very occasionally by chance).
Having said that - having lived with a genuine 4 tuner DVR - it's great, we only run out occasionally (it's that sunday night simpsons/sopranos/etc time slot)
I could have posted the message as Anonymous Coward if I really wanted to hide. What is so wrong about publishing the CEO's phone number? I got this information from someone at Dish Customer Service. There's nothing confidential about this information at all.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Screw DirectTV, they are no better than SCO
I mean to have all of a sudden brought Apple in as one of the good guys just because they adopted a bit of O.S. but changed NONE of their evil buisness practices shows how badly /. needs a moral compass.
It's basically "Whatever floats my boat" here. Trying to keep an eye on the philosophy here will cause you to twist your neck clean off.
this weekend at a friend's house with cable. Saw a bottom "news scroll" warning-type message at the bottom claiming DiSH was going to discontinue Viacomm channels including Comedy Central.
Seeing that Chappell's show was on at the time, I figured it was some sort of strange joke...
Has a point. Considering that Viacom is trying to become a monopoly in television rights. Viacom, which owns Comcast, which is trying to buy out Disney which is tied in with ABC.
All this fuss over a measley 6 frickin cents!
Quote from the article "They recently raised thier rates $3, but couldn't raise it another $0.06 for our fees." You would think Viacom is (insert sarcasm here) *struggleing* over 6 cents.
And in the end the consumers are the ones that get shafted! Shame on both DISH and Viacom.
As far as I'm concerned, there are two good channels on the basic lineup: Food Network (Iron Chef, Good Eats) and Comedy Central (Daily Show, Chapelle's Show). By the looks of it, Dish Network is removing half of the good programming on their lineup!
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Buying legitimate smartcard writers has never been an issue. DirecTV sends the extortion letters to people who have specifically purchased specialty smartcard readers whose design intent is to program DirecTV cards (i.e. Mikobu, etc).
As I unserstand it, some of the devices you, and DirecTV, allege are "illegitimate", are far less expensive than the commercial devices you recommend. The extra features include a built-in microprocessor (easy to configure) to locally control the programming (and its timing and complexity) and tight control of the power supply (capable of "glitching" the card to cause it to make a directed computational error).
The price is a BIG incentive for a garage shop - or any other legitimate business. The coprocessor shortens development time for an application, which could save even more. The power-glitcher can be used for testing the implementation of a security application for robustness against power-glitch attacks.
So you claim a legitimate designer should pay an extra grand or two, waste weeks of his time working around a bad card programmer design, and (if he's a security application designer) be left (like DirecTV) with an application that might be susceptable to attack by anybody with a cheap off-the-web programmer.
And all because DirecTV claims the cheaper and more capable device is "illegitimate"?
Sorry, AC. DirecTV bought a badly designed system. Now they're trying to cover their tails by engaging in criminal activity to stifle innovation that MIGHT be used to take advantage of their error, along with price competition in a technological tool market.
It doesn't matter what the INTENT of the designer of the devices was. What matters is what EACH INDIVIDUAL OWNER does with his device. Just like filesharing, or video tape recorders. Even if MOST of the use of the device is illegal (like "MP3 swapping" or recording copyright material), if it has "substantial legitimate use" it is not to be banned, and each instance of illegal use must be proven before penalties can be assessed.
Would you like to be sued by the RIAA because you own a computer and have an internet connection, and the major use of such devices (in their opinion) is to swap MP3s of their copyright material?
I didn't think so.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
NFL Sunday Ticket
Those messages that were scrolling at the bottom of MTV, CC, Nick and CBS were Viacom's damage control department. They knew they were going to be out of a major contract because DISH was standing up to thier monopoly. This means major $$. So they were trying to get as many people as possible to switch to the gremiln that caved into the rate hike, *the other guy*. Those messages weren't from DISH, they were from Viacom in hopes of trying to get people's $$.
Cause if they switch carriers, and they knew some would, then they get those consumer $$. Where's the anti-trust laws when you need them?
This consumer doesn't give a flip about smart cards/hobbyists. I've had 1 year and 2 months of perfect service with DirecTV with no Channel blackouts or other nonsense. DirecTV is the best thing going. I've got much better things to do than screw around with smartcards.
Who cares whether Dish or Viacom is to blame. Dish has voluntarily ceased providing me with programming, thereby either explicity or implicitly breaching their terms of service. I have informed them that I will not be paying anything for their service until they restore 100% of the programming. Dish should note that it is not acceptable to use me as a bargaining chip without asking me first.
DirecTV's contract extends thru 2005.
Viacom's increase is only 6 cents more per customer. For Dish Network, Ten million customers at 6 cents a month equals $600,000 a month. This is money that Dish Network would have to pay since it guaranteed customers no rate hikes through 2005. DISH NETWORK SHOULD EAT THE COST WITHOUT DISRUPTION TO THEIR CUSTOMERS!!! Do your self a favor and switch to DirectTV with TiVo.
It already is illegal. Google on antitrust and tying (actually, better off doing "sherman act tying").
There's a lot of grey area in tying, and it's not a portion of antitrust law that has been enforced very well recently, but this is a pretty clear cut case of Verizon practicing illegal tying.
Viacom Signals It May Want to Buy A Cable
System
Wed Mar 10,12:42 AM ET
In what would be a major shift in strategy, Viacom Inc. (NYSE:VIA - News) Chief Executive Sumner Redstone signaled that the company might seek to buy a cable-TV system, Wednesday's Wall Street Journal reported.
The remarks come just as a nasty spat between Viacom and satellite broadcaster EchoStar Communications Corp. (NasdaqNM:DISH - News) has boiled over. In a contract dispute, more than nine million subscribers to EchoStar's Dish satellite-TV network lost access to several Viacom cable channels yesterday, including MTV and Nickelodeon, and 1.6 million of them lost CBS.
Mr. Redstone didn't suggest that his company would move soon on any acquisition, and he made it clear that he wasn't interested in acquiring EchoStar. But his remarks highlight the way tensions have sharpened between companies that produce programming, such as Viacom, and those that distribute it. In this case, the argument is over how much EchoStar should pay Viacom for its programming.
Viacom has long argued that its stable of TV channels was so popular that the company didn't need to own distribution platforms in order to bring them to customers. Comcast Corp.'s bid for Walt Disney Co. last month highlights the other view. Comcast is the biggest cable-TV operator and Disney owns both the ABC network and cable channels such as ESPN. Time Warner Inc. already owns both production entities and cable operations; News Corp., parent of the Fox network, recently acquired control of DirecTV, a satellite-TV operator.
Wall Street Journal Staff Reporters Joe Flint, Martin Peers and Andy Pasztor contributed to this report.
Voting is by no measure anonymous. When you vote, there is a record that you voted. You sign the register, and your name is called out -- "Jane Doe has voted" they exclaim.
This practice helps prevent fraud. Your vote is secret, but not your identity.
"hissy fit"? "facts and statistics"? you have quite the wild imagination.
That's customer loyalty for ya!
Don't get me wrong. I highly doubt Charlie is being the public defender he proports to be. But at the same time, I don't think Viacom should be able to easily strong-arm all the distributors into paying whatever fees they feel are due to them.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Honestly, what I hate is that I CAN NOT seem to get a truthful story from either Viacom OR DishNetwork. I do admit, losing 6% of the programming and only getting 1$ credit is crummy, but still, if people all go to DTV over this, then DTV might end up with the same problem. I did a bit of math and according to Viacom's report of and extra $.06 per customer, that is 560,000 dollars that DN has to hand over, and that's a lot of money up front, and that's per-month! They already raised prices, but do we really want them to raise it again because of a .06 increase in Viacom's cost?
--FreyarHunter
Empathetic-- 94% You tend to walk in someone else's shoes a hundred miles before pointing a finger.
Today the Muzak service we have at work and is run by Dish Network had half of its channels disappear to be replaced with a "We're sorry....Viacom....$1 discount" message. Didn't hurt any but the standard business channels seemed to have dried up to leave disco.
Again remind me why I pay to watch Ad's on TV?
Wasnt there a time when advertisements paid for TV?
Shouldnt I be paying someone to NOT have ads?
TV is dead folks, at least the I invision it. This stand is good, but it doesnt go far enough.
Hold on a minute...
What Viacom has asked for is not only legal, but it is common practice. Viacom is not "punishing" Dish subscribers. They have asked for a reasonable, and fair, price hike. And they have asked for a legal bundling of their products. If Dish wants to change the legality of this, go theough the proper channels to do so. If Dish doesn't want to go through the proper channels to change the law, then by all means pull the channels, but suffer the consequenses.
Putting your customers in the middle, not providing them with a service they paid for, is a violation of Customer Service 101. As a Dish subscriber, I don't CARE who is to blame. I care that I have gone to my job and worked hard all day, making less than $50,000 a year, and come home to find that my favorite channels have been replaced by rhetoric because some BILLIONAIRES have decided to have a little fight with each other.
Dish saw this coming a mile away. They could have avoided it. And if they could not avoid it, make whatever deal you need to, service your customers, and go back and sue Viacom.
Dish has put themselves in a really bad position here because they banked a lot on a marketing scheme that bagged on all other services saying they were "pigs" for raising rates, and that Dish was the cheapest. They now have to do anything they can to save their customer $.06 a month. You should never guarantee rates, guarantee the lowest rates, etc if you rely on outside vendors to deliver a significant part of your service.
I wrote the CEO of DISH expressing my views. I specifically noted I was NOT a DISH subscriber, however I did get a generic response back within a day.
Dear Loyal DISH Network Customer,
I am very pleased to announce that we've successfully reached a long-term agreement with Viacom to provide you with CBS and MTV Networks including MTV, Comedy Central, and Nickelodeon. I am happy to say that this agreement will allow us to continue to provide you the lowest all-digital price everyday.
I understand that it has been a difficult 36 hours to be without these popular channels. We appreciate your patience, your support for DISH Network and your continued business.
As promised, you will receive a credit on your next billing statement. In addition, we would like to thank you for all of your support by sending you a free DISH On Demand Pay-Per-View coupon that will allow you to view upcoming hits like "Cat in the Hat" and "School of Rock." The coupon will arrive in your April billing statement. Enjoy a movie on us.
Everyone at DISH Network will continue to fight to provide the best possible programming and services at the lowest possible price, every day.
Thank you for your loyalty and thank you for being a DISH Network customer.
Charlie Ergen
CEO
DISH Network
Today I got the standard letter to all Dish subscribers who sent email (and it's on their website) saying they've reached an agreement and all subscribers will still get their $1 off plus a free Video On-Demand movie as a thank you for being patient.
I bet the people still waiting for their new (more expensive) cable/DirectTV subscription are hitting themselves for being so reactionary. I mean for crissake, it was only 36 hours!
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
It's all fun too watch, though. It's kind of like watching Orlando Pace's agent asking twice what the Rams are willing to pay. You just have to shake your head and wonder what they're thinking. I support Dish a 100% on this one. Keep those costs down. That forces cable to be competitive.
Ops, I shuld have usd the prevuwe but in.
It looks like Viacom and Dish have setteled after only 36 hours. See the Viacom Press release
Dish is standing by it's offer to knock $1 off bill for this month and is giving subscribers 1 free PPV movie.
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair